NARRATION [00:00:03]
[Auto-generated transcript. Edits may have been applied for clarity.]
This podcast is brought to you by the University of Aberdeen.
SPEAKER 1 [00:00:12]
Thank you so much for agreeing to take part in the podcast. I guess I just want to know from from your experience, um, how do you think TESTA came to Aberdeen? What made us decide to take TESTA as a program in Aberdeen?
SPEAKER 2 [00:00:29]
I think it was the arrival of our new senior vice principal, who came from a university where he had been very involved in implementing TESTA. And he believed in it so much that he brought that enthusiasm, commitment to Aberdeen and then expanding on that.
SPEAKER 1 [00:00:51]
So, absolutely, I think that's a really solid reason for exploring new thing. What do you think Aberdeen was hoping to achieve by implementing it?
Once we'd heard about the programme. Was there something specific or was it, you know, what did we want to achieve from TESTA?
SPEAKER 3 [00:01:07]
I think I think one of the key strengths of the TESTA process is the fact that it's from within and the fact that, um, obviously that we facilitate these sessions, but but through liaising with the Director of Education
the head of discipline and the teaching team itself. It's got that collaborative strength to it to bring everybody together and hopefully so that the team, the teaching team can make decisions from within that then benefit everybody.
SPEAKER 1 [00:01:40]
Okay. So, Chloe. I'd like to come to you to just, um, as the expert on the actual delivery of it. For those people who maybe haven't heard about TESTA yet at Aberdeen. Could you just briefly summarise for me and for them, what does the process involve if a school decides to embark on TESTA?
SPEAKER 3 [00:01:57]
Okay, so yeah, in short, the um, process involves, um, obviously liaising with the Director of Education, the head of discipline for that programme, and agreeing on the courses for the programme. Um, we look at, um, the courses as a sort of snapshot in time. So we go for usually the previous academic year. Um, I line manage some, um, student assistants who, um, are involved in the process as well. Um, and so they will collect data on the learning outcomes, the feedback and assessment, um, practices within each course on that programme.
And so as a result, then we get a visual of each course, um, that we can then take to the programmatic review. Um, maybe Mary wants to speak a little bit about the programmatic review?
SPEAKER 2 [00:02:52]
Yes. This is the chance for the staff to have their say. And as Chloe mentioned earlier, I think one of the really exclusive things about TESTA is that there is no external eye on the proceedings, that this is genuinely allowing the teaching team to discuss amongst themselves what forms and types of assessments they have across an entire programme, which can be a a lengthy four year undergraduate program, or can be a much more pressured short masters programme for lasting just one or maybe two years.
So I think that's a real pointer of it. And so the staff will come to the review meeting already having had a chance to look at their courses as a system, usually in the previous academic year. And it's interesting that many staff often say, "I've already started to think about this now in a way that I never had done before". And so once they come, they're primed. They know they've already been brought into the process. So we're not starting from zero.
And then they are allowed the luxury of a two hour period when they can talk to each other about what they do, discover exciting things that are different and sometimes, "Oh, I didn't realise you did that. I seem to be doing something very similar. So let's talk about, um, or changing that or enhancing or adjusting it".
SPEAKER 1 [00:04:41]
Fantastic. So it's really clear then on how that that process works from the sort of the staff side of things.How can students be, um, involved in TESTA?
SPEAKER 3 [00:04:56]
So we're really keen to also involve students as partners,and we're very keen to hear about students experiences on their course in terms of assessment, feedback, um, and how basically just accessible the course material is to them. Um, so we have a questionnaire that, for example, if we're doing an undergraduate program, we will circulate the questionnaire to third and fourth year students. So the students that have had more experience in these areas already, um, and we invite their feedback.
Um, and it's quite interesting when we look at the data from the questionnaire and also the common themes that staff have often spoken about, quite often there are recurring patterns.There's common areas, um, you often find that the student experience and the staff experience is actually quite similar.
SPEAKER 1 [00:05:48]
Fantastic. So I'm going to bring up what's known as the sort of swearing word of university, which is the work load. Um, and I think in university, all over every university there's a real desire to do things better, to move forward, to review, to reflect, enhance. But often the challenge is "How will I find this space because my workload so heavy?".
Can you maybe talk around a little bit your experiences of how can we or how do we support schools to to find that space? And is there a value to doing this?
SPEAKER 2 [00:06:28]
I think there is a value in doing this, in that they will never find the time to have this sort of conversation unless it's part of a project, but a non-judgemental project. And I do think that's really important. And what we're doing is asking for two hours of their time that may allow them to go as far as reconsidering the amount of assessments that they are weighing in on.
The students within the students also have a workload problem. So this is not just staff, but as Chloe was saying, we can bring in the student voice on this and each person is often siloed. Each member of staff is often siloed within their particular course without a clear understanding of the accumulative workload for students across maybe four different courses in a term. So the benefit is that giving up two hours of your time now might mean that you will decide radically to cut the amount of assessment you are giving to your students, but making the assessments you do a lot more meaningful, giving the staff a break from endless marking that may not be essential, and the students are free to have time to reflect on their learning, and not just on how am I going to cope with all of the assessments.
SPEAKER 1 [00:08:06]
If, um, you were given, um, complete free rein. Um. Total budget up to anything you wanted. Is there any enhancements you would like to see to how we're currently running TESTA?
SPEAKER 3 [00:08:23]
Oh, that's a very good question. Um. I think I think some. I think the staff really appreciate that two hour session. And I think given workload. Um, you know, I don't think that's something I mean, that's something it's very clear. I think a follow up staff, you know, something that could involve a follow up or would be good, um, maybe some simple things, obviously, you know. Lunch or something like that. I know it sounds trivial, but... Or maybe even some incentives for students to participate in the questionnaire.
Um, I think post-Covid there's a lot of questions concerning the sector in higher education. And I think TESTA is a really valuable instrument that can be used to reappraise, you know, assessment, feedback, learning outcomes. And so in that sense, I do think it's really important that budget is considered for it.
SPEAKER 1 [00:09:26]
Mary. Any other ideas?
SPEAKER 2 [00:09:30]
We've seen a real change. Um, in our pilot year, we had a more generous budget, so we were able to offer lunch for staff. And that did sometimes make it perhaps a more relaxed session. And we did give some incentives to students, but I think those are nice to have. But I wouldn't say that they're essential.
I think the main thing is convincing people it is worth coming along giving up that two hours of time. But I think the incentive there is many, many of the groups with whom we've worked have acknowledged that this is opened up an area of discussion that we've never had before, and I don't think we will be able to go back never doing again. So I think that to me is the valuable part. And it's also asking students in a much more focussed, reflective manner than the National Student Survey, which is asking them to look at their programs in a different manner. I think it's giving the students a voice, which we immediately juxtapose with the staff voice, and I think that's quite unusual.
SPEAKER 1 [00:10:55]
Absolutely last question. Just this one. How will Aberdeen University be able to know if the TESTA program is a success?
SPEAKER 2 [00:11:07]
I think we already know it's a success in the sense that we've had two pilot years. We're now into our third year, and I think we've really built on the lessons learned, for example, from the pilot year about streamlining, um, the best ways to communicate and collaborate with teaching staff and also how CAD can best facilitate. And I think also just thinking about follow ups, long term impact to TESTA. It's also our ability as CAD as an entity to support learning and teaching. How we can ensure that we can support these areas that we then have engaged with, build up a really good relationship with them.
Um, so that. These key issues around teaching, assessment, feedback that they're not just something that then goes away when we go away and after the report, it's something that they continue to think about, and it's something that we can continue to support them with.
NARRATOR [00:12:14]
This podcast is brought to you by the University of Aberdeen.
[Auto-generated transcript. Edits may have been applied for clarity.]
This podcast is brought to you by the University of Aberdeen.
SPEAKER 1 [00:00:12]
Thank you so much for agreeing to take part in the podcast. I guess I just want to know from from your experience, um, how do you think TESTA came to Aberdeen? What made us decide to take TESTA as a program in Aberdeen?
SPEAKER 2 [00:00:29]
I think it was the arrival of our new senior vice principal, who came from a university where he had been very involved in implementing TESTA. And he believed in it so much that he brought that enthusiasm, commitment to Aberdeen and then expanding on that.
SPEAKER 1 [00:00:51]
So, absolutely, I think that's a really solid reason for exploring new thing. What do you think Aberdeen was hoping to achieve by implementing it?
Once we'd heard about the programme. Was there something specific or was it, you know, what did we want to achieve from TESTA?
SPEAKER 3 [00:01:07]
I think I think one of the key strengths of the TESTA process is the fact that it's from within and the fact that, um, obviously that we facilitate these sessions, but but through liaising with the Director of Education
the head of discipline and the teaching team itself. It's got that collaborative strength to it to bring everybody together and hopefully so that the team, the teaching team can make decisions from within that then benefit everybody.
SPEAKER 1 [00:01:40]
Okay. So, Chloe. I'd like to come to you to just, um, as the expert on the actual delivery of it. For those people who maybe haven't heard about TESTA yet at Aberdeen. Could you just briefly summarise for me and for them, what does the process involve if a school decides to embark on TESTA?
SPEAKER 3 [00:01:57]
Okay, so yeah, in short, the um, process involves, um, obviously liaising with the Director of Education, the head of discipline for that programme, and agreeing on the courses for the programme. Um, we look at, um, the courses as a sort of snapshot in time. So we go for usually the previous academic year. Um, I line manage some, um, student assistants who, um, are involved in the process as well. Um, and so they will collect data on the learning outcomes, the feedback and assessment, um, practices within each course on that programme.
And so as a result, then we get a visual of each course, um, that we can then take to the programmatic review. Um, maybe Mary wants to speak a little bit about the programmatic review?
SPEAKER 2 [00:02:52]
Yes. This is the chance for the staff to have their say. And as Chloe mentioned earlier, I think one of the really exclusive things about TESTA is that there is no external eye on the proceedings, that this is genuinely allowing the teaching team to discuss amongst themselves what forms and types of assessments they have across an entire programme, which can be a a lengthy four year undergraduate program, or can be a much more pressured short masters programme for lasting just one or maybe two years.
So I think that's a real pointer of it. And so the staff will come to the review meeting already having had a chance to look at their courses as a system, usually in the previous academic year. And it's interesting that many staff often say, "I've already started to think about this now in a way that I never had done before". And so once they come, they're primed. They know they've already been brought into the process. So we're not starting from zero.
And then they are allowed the luxury of a two hour period when they can talk to each other about what they do, discover exciting things that are different and sometimes, "Oh, I didn't realise you did that. I seem to be doing something very similar. So let's talk about, um, or changing that or enhancing or adjusting it".
SPEAKER 1 [00:04:41]
Fantastic. So it's really clear then on how that that process works from the sort of the staff side of things.How can students be, um, involved in TESTA?
SPEAKER 3 [00:04:56]
So we're really keen to also involve students as partners,and we're very keen to hear about students experiences on their course in terms of assessment, feedback, um, and how basically just accessible the course material is to them. Um, so we have a questionnaire that, for example, if we're doing an undergraduate program, we will circulate the questionnaire to third and fourth year students. So the students that have had more experience in these areas already, um, and we invite their feedback.
Um, and it's quite interesting when we look at the data from the questionnaire and also the common themes that staff have often spoken about, quite often there are recurring patterns.There's common areas, um, you often find that the student experience and the staff experience is actually quite similar.
SPEAKER 1 [00:05:48]
Fantastic. So I'm going to bring up what's known as the sort of swearing word of university, which is the work load. Um, and I think in university, all over every university there's a real desire to do things better, to move forward, to review, to reflect, enhance. But often the challenge is "How will I find this space because my workload so heavy?".
Can you maybe talk around a little bit your experiences of how can we or how do we support schools to to find that space? And is there a value to doing this?
SPEAKER 2 [00:06:28]
I think there is a value in doing this, in that they will never find the time to have this sort of conversation unless it's part of a project, but a non-judgemental project. And I do think that's really important. And what we're doing is asking for two hours of their time that may allow them to go as far as reconsidering the amount of assessments that they are weighing in on.
The students within the students also have a workload problem. So this is not just staff, but as Chloe was saying, we can bring in the student voice on this and each person is often siloed. Each member of staff is often siloed within their particular course without a clear understanding of the accumulative workload for students across maybe four different courses in a term. So the benefit is that giving up two hours of your time now might mean that you will decide radically to cut the amount of assessment you are giving to your students, but making the assessments you do a lot more meaningful, giving the staff a break from endless marking that may not be essential, and the students are free to have time to reflect on their learning, and not just on how am I going to cope with all of the assessments.
SPEAKER 1 [00:08:06]
If, um, you were given, um, complete free rein. Um. Total budget up to anything you wanted. Is there any enhancements you would like to see to how we're currently running TESTA?
SPEAKER 3 [00:08:23]
Oh, that's a very good question. Um. I think I think some. I think the staff really appreciate that two hour session. And I think given workload. Um, you know, I don't think that's something I mean, that's something it's very clear. I think a follow up staff, you know, something that could involve a follow up or would be good, um, maybe some simple things, obviously, you know. Lunch or something like that. I know it sounds trivial, but... Or maybe even some incentives for students to participate in the questionnaire.
Um, I think post-Covid there's a lot of questions concerning the sector in higher education. And I think TESTA is a really valuable instrument that can be used to reappraise, you know, assessment, feedback, learning outcomes. And so in that sense, I do think it's really important that budget is considered for it.
SPEAKER 1 [00:09:26]
Mary. Any other ideas?
SPEAKER 2 [00:09:30]
We've seen a real change. Um, in our pilot year, we had a more generous budget, so we were able to offer lunch for staff. And that did sometimes make it perhaps a more relaxed session. And we did give some incentives to students, but I think those are nice to have. But I wouldn't say that they're essential.
I think the main thing is convincing people it is worth coming along giving up that two hours of time. But I think the incentive there is many, many of the groups with whom we've worked have acknowledged that this is opened up an area of discussion that we've never had before, and I don't think we will be able to go back never doing again. So I think that to me is the valuable part. And it's also asking students in a much more focussed, reflective manner than the National Student Survey, which is asking them to look at their programs in a different manner. I think it's giving the students a voice, which we immediately juxtapose with the staff voice, and I think that's quite unusual.
SPEAKER 1 [00:10:55]
Absolutely last question. Just this one. How will Aberdeen University be able to know if the TESTA program is a success?
SPEAKER 2 [00:11:07]
I think we already know it's a success in the sense that we've had two pilot years. We're now into our third year, and I think we've really built on the lessons learned, for example, from the pilot year about streamlining, um, the best ways to communicate and collaborate with teaching staff and also how CAD can best facilitate. And I think also just thinking about follow ups, long term impact to TESTA. It's also our ability as CAD as an entity to support learning and teaching. How we can ensure that we can support these areas that we then have engaged with, build up a really good relationship with them.
Um, so that. These key issues around teaching, assessment, feedback that they're not just something that then goes away when we go away and after the report, it's something that they continue to think about, and it's something that we can continue to support them with.
NARRATOR [00:12:14]
This podcast is brought to you by the University of Aberdeen.
