Life Completely Transformed At 40 - Chris Hamm Interview Co-Owner of HHA

Take Aim Adventures Podcast: I mean you really don't have a choice. It's not like you can say, Well, I'm gonna hand in my pink slip, I'm gonna go do something else. It's like this is ours. We have to find a way to fix it. It has our name on it. And I came home and I sat on her bed and I looked at her and I said, I have to change. Something has to change here. I can't do this anymore. And I looked at the two guys that I'm with and I said two things. Number one, I'm never again gonna complain that I'm having a bad day. That was ten years ago. I've had a lot of bad days in the last ten years, but I don't complain about them. I know that there's somebody that's got it worse than I do. Such a cool deer. Well you did it again. All right, guys, well, welcome to the Take Aim Adventures podcast. Today we have a special guest, Chris Ham of HHA, and they have all kinds of really cool sites and they and all that Chris is involved in is really fun too. I ⁓ I've been loving my HHA sights. We've been using them for quite a few years. I love the adjustability being able to go out there at like a total archery challenge event, even take that dial down to like a hundred yards. It's so much fun. It's a blast. But thank you so much. For joining us, Chris. No, I'm just blessed to blessed to be here. Glad it finally aligned for our our schedules. As you you guys know, you're in the space and July is ⁓ is chaos in the in the archery in the outdoor world, so this year's no different. Yeah, you're you're kinda happy when it is chaos a little bit, right? But then there's always those surprises that that mess you up. I'm familiar with your products because back in the what mid eighties I got this amazing stabilizer bar that folded down against my bow. And it was the greatest thing in the world 'cause it actually fit in my case after I used it. And ⁓ so I know that that came from from your dad and your family. That goes back into the what, mid eighties was when you guys really started the fire. ⁓ that's neat. So it was that was that really the the ⁓ the start of it all or were you guys doing other things? I don't know it was your dad that was that started it and you were pretty young. ⁓ you look like you were probably like one or two when this happened or something like that. Well thanks. I got I I look good for fifty one. I was actually nine in nineteen eighty four. So I'm aging well. So ⁓ but ⁓ yeah that was that was the first product that officially put us on the on the map. Dad had tinkered with some stuff and kinda had some stops and starts in the late seventies and early eighties but But nineteen eighty four the knucklehead stabilizer was the was the very first product that HHA Sports ever really ever made. So what was he playing with beforehand? Was it was it mostly archery or was he just like scattered, shotgun, a bunch of different things that he was playing with? No, it was archery. So dad dad was around when ⁓ and I think we all have somebody like this in our life, or hopefully did at some point, but he was around when when recurves were the thing and then compounds came out and everybody's like, What is this? And so so he ⁓ Yeah, late sixties, early seventies is when he really got the archery bug and just started tinkering in the basements. I mean he was making made a lot of releases. He made a release called the the Cant Punch. It was a blue hydraulic release. There was there was a few of ⁓ circulated around Minnesota when we lived there at the time. and then that would evolve in the early nineties into the squeezer. I actually still shoot one myself. It's a it looks like the first computer. It takes Is it is it hydraulic still? Are you using like a hydraulic cylinder in there? Yep, yep. I still I I just shot it this morning. I shot a dozen arrows out in my yard. I mean, I've been I've been shooting that release for thirty years. and we actually had to quit making it when we started getting into the optimizers 'cause we only had one C and C machine at the time. I'm getting getting a little bit ahead of myself on the timeline, but that was he he he was making a lot of handheld releases back in the late seventies, early eighties. d no none of them ever went into production, but then ⁓ but yeah, the that stabilizer came to him in nineteen eighty nineteen eighty three. I just had a tour at our factory here last week or the week before. And my brother went to a tech school in town here. ⁓ he's twelve years older than I am, so he he does all of our engineering ⁓ and all of our design work, runs our our machine shop now. But my brother made the the prototype for the knucklehead stabilizer on a lathe. probably about seven or eight miles from where I'm sitting right now, ⁓ as his senior project when he was going to tech school. ⁓ That's so cool. That is really neat. Now what was your dad's like machining and like engineering background? Like where did your dad get into all this? In his basement. He he was not a a machinist or an engineer by trade. He just loved ⁓ he loved to tinker and and make stuff. And so he was into ⁓ manufacturing. He was he was more of a of a of a logistics guy and a and a bill of materials and a parts guy. So he worked for a for a mobile home factory out in ⁓ in Minnesota and he would he would order carpeting and cabinets and you name it for for mobile homes. Okay. But you're in Wisconsin now. So you guys moved from so you kinda grew up in Minnesota and then moved down to Wisconsin? How did that I'm I'm the only one yeah, I'm the only one of our ham family that was born in Minnesota. So so mom and dad were both born and raised here, right? Wisconsin Rapids where I live. ⁓ And then dad had to move to Minnesota for work in nineteen seventy. So my my brother and sister were, you know, six, seven years old at the time. ⁓ I wasn't born yet. I was born in seventy five out in Owatana, Minnesota. So you were the shock. I was, yeah. Yeah. They they they even though I came twelve years later, my dad said that he wanted another kid. I wasn't a mistake, so ⁓ Yeah, but you reset the family, man. You were out of diapers and people were running and doing stuff, and next thing you know, we got a we got a little one. Yeah, you got raised by your brother then. Yep, pretty much. Pretty much. But yeah, so then we moved back to Wisconsin Rapids in nineteen seventy eight. So I mean I have ⁓ my only recollection of ⁓ of Minnesota. We were at a park and I I ended up getting chased by a bunch of ducks and and I was afraid of ⁓ and ended up jumping up on my sister's shoulders. That that's like my first childhood memory. I I I think I think the trauma's gone, but ⁓ So still wakes you up at night. Mm-hmm. So got him in the hunting. Yeah, yeah. So your your dad's starting the business. ⁓ you're you're quite young then. So so you're, you know, not even a teenager yet. And dad is did he throw himself full time into the business once the knuckle started to sell? And then did you say, Hey, I quit my day job and now we're gonna this is it. This is what I'm doing for a living. He did, yeah. Mom ⁓ mom actually worked at Shopko and and God rest Shopko's sold that place closed down thanks to Amazon a few few years back, but that was a Midwest kind of a smaller version of a Walmart or a Kmart. Mom mom worked in the electronics in the seasonal department at Shopgow and had insurance for the family and and dad was at home, you know, watching all my children's soap operas and if the phone rang he would ⁓ he would pick it up and and and talk archery goods with people. So yeah that that's that's no joke. That was nineteen eighty four. ⁓ like I said I was nine years old but I mean this is the only job that I've ever had forty two years later. I've never I've never had to fill out a job resume or or do an interview other than the mock ones that I did in high school and college. So Okay. So today involved in the business is just your brother and you? Yeah. Older brother. Mom is still mom's still living. Mom will be eighty four next next week. she she's still around, ⁓ still healthy. ⁓ doesn't have a lot to do with the day to day functions, but she just comes to the to the office for comic relief and does a little bit of Side assembly here and there and does the bank deposit for us once a week. So good for her. So so you've you're you got in the family business starting to grow. You're in the eighties and nineties. Archery's really kind of taking off, right? I mean, archery's becoming popular. You got the compound bow taking place and and anything new into an industr industry, you know, if you get on that front edge, that's pretty nice. But you guys get out of stabilizers for the most part. And next thing you know, you're in you're in bow sites, which today I think if everybody talked about it, that would be that's your claim to fame today, right? For sure. So yeah, those that that ten year stretch from, you know, eighty-four to to I'm gonna say ninety-four, we ⁓ we made broadheads. We don't admit that to a lot of people, but if you ever come to our factory, you'll see a package of those. They were called the silver tip. ⁓ the I we had a three and a four blade version. The the blades were not a hundred and twenty and ninety degrees apart like they were supposed to be. The the tips were not that great. The blades were super dull. You You couldn't shave with them. I mean not a proud moment in HHA history but but and a lot of that stuff, not to throw our suppliers under the bus, but at that point we were buying all of our we were outsourcing all everything. we actually partnered with another company in Michigan called Grayling Outdoor Products. I don't know you guys remember them or not, but they made Bear Archery. That's Bear was up in the Grayling area. So they had to bend some. Yeah, this was a this was a this was a molding company. But they ⁓ They did quivers, they did handheld releases, we had a plastic arrow rest at one point back in the eighties. ⁓ we actually made pin sights. ⁓ back when everybody was using brass pins and using red fingernail polish on the tips of ⁓ and the the beads were about eighty thousandths. Right. We made those. Covered the whole target up when you held it up. Exactly. But but you're happy to see it. Yep. ⁓ and then cardboard silhouette deer targets, the and no offense to wildlife research, but ⁓ I I think you see a lot of those floating around the fleet farms and the farm and home places, but the two by four cardboard deer targets, we we ac we're actually one of the first ones to make those here in Wisconsin. So So you weren't a lot of these ideas, you weren't the hands on manufacturer. You were having other you were having ideas and having somebody else manufacture ⁓ and make those components for you and then you were really marketing and selling those products for the most part. Yeah, 'cause you don't have a corrigate house. So you're you're buying corrugate sheet and No, that was a place it's actually the home of Colby Cheese, if any if there's any Colby Cheese fans, Colby, Wisconsin is where the first Colby Cheese was made and that was where the cardboard targets were made about an hour north of where we're at here. So getting into the northwoods of Wisconsin is where those were those were printed. Yeah, then they would just ship ⁓ into a local house or a local ⁓ packaging factory that would that would package ⁓ thirty at a time and they would warehouse ⁓ for us and that was pre pickup trucks. We would have to go and and pick ⁓ up in the station wagon, you know, six, eight, ten at a time playing playing Jenga and wed wedging them into the back of the station wagon so we could ship ⁓ out to our dealers. So you guys pretty early went into your dealerships. You guys weren't going to all the local shows in the Midwest and ⁓ Iowa and all the other places like happened somewhat today. You guys were used as distributors very early. Yeah ⁓ our archery manufacturers organization, it was AMO er early on. ⁓ but yeah, there wasn't obviously there was no attack events. The all these, you know, Deer Classics were just getting started. So we we we built our brand on getting it into the into the retail spaces and it it wasn't until probably the last ten years or so with the explosion of the internet, or not the explosion of the internet, but just dot coms and stuff that we started doing, you know, factory direct off of our website as well. But no, we we For for thirty years we we built a a really, really strong brand on getting dealers into into the HHA brand. So that's interesting. I didn't know that. I didn't so so you you go from Corrigate targets and now you're really into pretty techy. I mean, your sites are really machined, perfect. I mean they're they're a piece of art, right? If you really look at it, I mean they're they're fascinating. I'll I'll Give you that. I I love especially when you start doing the dials and all this our stuff and all the all the logistics and and the math. Yeah, the pressure I would say there's just so much there of what's going on and then the confidence to go shoot that when you when you have that moment, it's it's it's really it's really neat. But that's a little bit different than ⁓ than a printed corrugate flat target for art for deer. And I think you guys have jumped into the manufacturing side somewhere in here. So how did how did that how did that happen? Yep, so nineteen ninety one, ⁓ my brother had been out of college for about four years at that point. He was working for the train company over in La Crosse, Wisconsin. and we got into making caliper releases. I think Scott was kinda one of the big names back at that time. and so we started making caliper releases and we were just having a heck of a time getting quality parts on time from our local machining house. ⁓ And that was just a struggle that kept coming up over and over and nothing against, you know, these other vendors. But it's i i it's hard to get stuff on time and have, you know, a a fine hand on on your quality if you're not doing it yourself. And so my brother just asked my dad, he's like, Hey, we we need to start running our own machine shop. You need to come back and start designing our tree products with me and and buy us a C and C machine so we can start making this stuff ourselves. And so that was the fall of nineteen ninety one. So that was thirty that'd be thirty five years ago this fall that my brother came back full time to work for dad. and he thought that he was gonna design, run the machine himself and that lasted all of about three or four months. Our our demand for the the caliper releases just took off and my brother realized he couldn't wear that many hats and so we hired our first full time CNC operator in the winter of nineteen ninety two. ⁓ and it's crazy we walk into that space now and I mean that original was it a It an old looks like an abandoned warehouse, but they they used to make furnaces and s small like camp stoves back in the sixties. ⁓ and then that business shuttered in the late eighties. It was closed down for two or three years and then they opened it up as a business incubator for small business. So so we were one of the first tenants in there and we've been there for thirty five years now. So we actually have two different locations. We do our machining there and then we do all of our assembly, ⁓ our sales and our shipping out of another location about five miles up the road. So So how mu how much has the manufacturing scaled to like how many machines are you guys running now versus like back then? ⁓ yeah. I mean, like I said, we had one machine back then. We've got we just wheeled in our two our two newest machines, I want to say are about a year and a half old, but we've got nine C and C's now that we're running r right right now, we're running around the clock. I mean, we we typically can get everything done in in two shifts. I mean, we're still outsourcing some stuff, but I would say you look at one of our sites and I'm gonna say that. eighty-five to ninety percent of the parts you see on there come from under our roof. Other stuff does get outsourced. Just maybe if it's a machine that we don't we don't have, you know, small turnings, things like that. But ⁓ yeah, so we've we've got nine machines cranking out chips twenty four hours a day, probably for the next three or four months to get us through the twenty twenty six season and into twenty twenty seven launch. Right. Into the opening. That's pretty cool. It's it's so much fun to hear about like US manufacturing, all that goes into it. How you get started in it. Like it's just so cool. Yeah. And and to think about ⁓ what's happening with a family and how it impacts your family, you know. ⁓ a one little idea in a basement. I mean, you're your dad, you just I come out of the history of a family business. My dad started a packaging business in 1970. So they're those kind of the same thing. And you you you look at the ripple of that marble being thrown in that lake. And you and you look in 2026 and you pinch yourself and go, wow, how did we get here? And ⁓ there's been a lot of turns, but God's been so kind ⁓ to get us here. ⁓ I'd like to ask you a little bit ⁓ a question because I think some guys, you know, hey, you're in a quote unquote family business. You and your brother are there together. He's your bigger brother, he's 10 years older, you know. He probably pounded ⁓ knobs in your head when you were growing up and you have, but how how is that? ⁓ navigating that in a family business. Mom's still around and all this our stuff. What what's that like? What what's it like on a day to day basis and and how do you guys navigate that? Yeah, it's definitely a ⁓ a challenging dynamic. I don't you know, I don't begrudge it. I don't I don't wish anything different for for the upbringing that I have. But I mean once the business started taking off it almost was like that kind of superseded the family portion of it, which it is what it is, but but I mean you just And and people that own a business know that you you can't get away from it. You go on vacation for a week and especially with these stinking smartphones it's like, Well, I got eighty emails I'm gonna have to catch up on when I get home. ⁓ you know, ⁓ being an employee of a of a small business is one thing, but but being an owner is a completely different one 'cause it can be five thirty in the morning and you're just in the shower trying to get ready for the day, all of a sudden boop Yeah. There it is. ⁓ yep, I gotta do that today. So it ⁓ it definitely had its ⁓ and does have its its challenges at time, but it's ⁓ it's also very rewarding. I mean I can't imagine doing anything else at some point, you know. HHA will will have to move on to to somebody that's not a ham because my I myself, my wife and I don't have kids. My brother and his wife don't have kids, so the The the next generation that runs HHA when we're ready to tap out won't have ham in the last name, but hopefully it'll be somebody that has the same DNA that we do and the same passion for the sports. Passion for what you're doing. as you think through the years and one of the and remember alluding to it a little bit with family business, right? You you you don't want to get rid of it, but there's some good and bad days. certainly in the hunting space and in the archery industry, we all know that there's ebbs and flows in the business. ⁓ Can you talk much about the the the bad days per se, and what it is that gets you through, especially as a as a business and in the family business, how do you navigate some of those some of the tighter times or when the market kind of squeezes or there's a quality issue? How how how do you respond? What's going on ⁓ in the business, you as a manager and owner? Yeah, and I mean that's that's changed a lot in how I look at that over the last decade since I came to faith. I mean, before I was saved, I had I had one way of doing things and that was Chris Ham's way and it wasn't the best. I I I think I did a pretty good job. I mean, we've got a lot of of long time employees at HHA, so I mean I wasn't a I wasn't a guy to blow up on people if somebody made a mistake. I'm I'm a pretty cool cucumber. My my dad was not that way. And my brother definitely got more of dad's genes than I did. I don't know if it was just that I was the youngest one and kind of saw the fall out of what happens when the when the gun comes out. It's like, I don't think I'm gonna go down that road. Yep. ⁓ but ⁓ but no, I mean we just I mean you really don't have a choice. It's not like you can say, Well, I'm gonna hand in my pink slip, I'm gonna go do something else. It's like this is ours. We have to find way to fix it. Yeah. And I got a I have a little bit of payment to a bank. Yeah, so ⁓ I mean there hasn't been I I mean there's always stuff, right? But there hasn't been anything real significant. And I think the one thing that we're so blessed with in the archery space is even when there's a an economic downturn in the country, it's like archery is the last thing that people will cut from their budget. You know, they might not go to Disney World, they might not buy that new boat this year, but by God they're gonna go out and and buy a new bow and buy a new site to put on it. So I mean we haven't really felt ⁓ any kind of major economic impacts over the last forty forty years just because pe people that are are sportsmen that's their that's their lifestyle that's their passion man I think some of them would rather be homeless than then give up their both. Exactly. That's not always healthy. But ⁓ but no no there's a balance there. Definitely a balance there. You gotta figure that out. It's ⁓ that's a hard spot. All right. Some ⁓ just some advice to to younger guys. All right. You you you you run into a guy at a show, ATA or whatever And he's, you know, twenty, twenty five years old, pretty aggressive, has this great new idea in the archery space and ⁓ he wants to start his own business and go on. What what what would you say to him? What would you what would you start to talk to him about? ⁓ Boy, that's a that's a deep question 'cause I mean, especially when you go on the face side and I think I think of how I was at that age. I mean, we we had something pretty unique happen to us. I was twenty one years old. I came back to work full time for dad when I was twenty one, even though I never had another job, you know, I was still in high school and did the tech school thing for a couple of years. But ⁓ my father had a near fatal heart attack in the fall of ninety six, five months after I got back to work. And ⁓ I'm sitting on the edge of his hospital bed not knowing if he's gonna come home, right? Yep. And all of a sudden I'm the guy. Wha whether I wanted to be or not, he was gonna groom me in to be the guy. Well now now I have to be the guy. Yeah. Yeah. So so so I'm going to I think I think the tr ATA show was in Louisville that year, so I'm no normally he would have been the one kind of leading the charge down there with him and my mom. That year it was me 'cause my brother stayed back to to be with dad 'cause he was only a month and a half removed from his heart attacks. I'm twenty one years old and I'm the man. Yeah. At least I thought I was. Yeah. ⁓ And and and I guess my biggest piece of advice is don't don't think too highly of yourself. ⁓ you you might have the greatest idea in the world. It might revolutionize the archery space, but don't don't think that that is from you because it's not any any grand ideas that we get come from God. Bad ideas are usually mine. and and it took me a pretty rocky road of of Well, I don't know if you guys have ever had Ray Howell on your podcast. I'd love to have you have him on, but he ⁓ Ray's a good friend of mine and he he says that he was a self made king for a lot of years before he started pointing his life at the one true king. And that was ⁓ that that's a piece of advice that will always stick with me is that ⁓ 'cause I mean you see a lot of these young up and comers and I mean nothing against social media, but I mean there's so many influencers and and it's all me, me, me, me, me. And I mean Don't get me wrong, I'm a business owner. We need people influencing to to push our brand, right? But speaking from personal experience, when you when you elevate yourself up above Jesus Christ, you're gonna get humbled at some point either in this life or the next. And thankfully I was humbled in this life. So kind of a long answer. Kind of a long answer, but don't ⁓ don't get a big head because either somebody or ultimately God is gonna is gonna put you face down on the Damascus road and hopefully you you make the right decision when that day comes. Right. It was interesting. It it's a parallel comment. We talked to ⁓ Matt McPherson the other day and and gave him kind of the same question and and and he made the statement of of be focused on doing the important thing and not trying to become important. And and I thought, yeah, that's ⁓ that's an amazing insight. There's a lot of wisdom in that. I haven't had a chance to listen to Matt's podcast yet. And I mean, I know a little bit of what he has done, but I mean that's ⁓ that that's a man in a company that yeah, it's easy to look at them on the surface and see them as the greatest, you know, bow manufacturer on the planet. But the the kingdom work that that man has done with the gifts that God has given him. I mean he he gets it. He's storing up for himself treasures in heaven. Okay. Yeah, he's so focused too. Yep. Got God's God's blessing him. W with with a with a tremendous business, but when you put God first, it it's amazing what what he will do. Yeah. It's fun to watch. I you you have a little bit of a connection with this guy by the name of Jeff Danker. I think that's the right way to pronounce his name. ⁓ from ⁓ Buck Ventures. I'm not sure how close you guys are. ⁓ From the outside, it seems like you guys know each other. You're kind of along the same line. You're you're at least ⁓ a little bit ⁓ vocal about your faith. ⁓ I met him probably, yeah. In fact, this is part of the reason why we were even doing these podcasts and and the way we close it, because Danker met him at ATA. We were talking about the company name Fourth Arrow, and I talked to him a little bit about the idea that Fourth Arrow is blessed is man whose quiver is full, Psalms one twenty seven. ⁓ it's the job of my wife and I from a time our kids were first born. I put their name on their arrows. We pray for our kids and we explain to them that it's our job. Just like me, drawing my bow back and firing that arrow to hit the target. It's our job to prepare them to be that arrow to hit the target for the glory of God. So we've used that as a theme. My partner in this camera business that we started is my fourth child, which is my fourth arrow, which is why the name fourth arrow is out there. So Danker and I had never met. We're talking a little bit about some stuff's going on. He wanted to know about the name for There. I say so I say that to him and then all of a sudden he stops. And I and I don't know how many times you've had this in your life. And this is why you get pulled in with him because I've seen you guys together and and has been at some stuff. So I've always appreciated it. ⁓ he turns to me, he says, ⁓ really? ⁓ why don't you talk to me about ⁓ your faith? And just kind of sets it out there and I'm like cracking up. I'm like, ⁓ you just asked me for my testimony. And and we're sitting at ATA, you know, and and I I'm like, Well, yeah, okay. And I start to talk to him about what God's done in my life and where he and and also he stops me, he goes, No, no, never mind. Because I'm always concerned that there's so many people put religious verses around stuff marketing as their marketing employee, but it's not really who they are. And I know you guys do the prayer breakfast and that's been where we've kind of ⁓ had a chance to to observe you. talking very openly about your faith at the ATA show. And so I've I'm kind of pile you guys together, which is part of the reason why we started even doing this this podcast, because we thought, you know what, we have context, we have the privilege of meeting people in the hunting space. And ⁓ why don't we let some people talk a little bit about, you know, really eternal things, some things that that really matter in their life that we don't always get to talk about because we're selling parts, you know, for enjoying hunting. So the first part of that question i is going to be dark of the night. That time in life where things just just get buried for whatever it is, you know, it could be a a pile of different issues in life. ⁓ you've must have had one. You've lived long enough to have a dark of the night, probably multiple ones, right? ⁓ what was it if you're willing to share it? And and how did you get around it? What what what was God doing? What did you learn through the whole thing? Yeah. So two thousand Like I said, 2001, I'm or no, that was nineteen ninety-six when I came back to work full time for dad, so I was twenty one years old at the time. Fast forward to two thousand ten, ⁓ I had a I had a pretty big ego. We we we were fifteen years into making optimizer sites at that point. I mean we I don't wanna say we owned the single pin market or the movable site market, but we were the we we were the top. the top dog and that's not those aren't my words, those are coming from our dealers, those are coming from industry awards, industry peers. People people were chasing us. And I took way too much credit for that. ⁓ I I believed in God at that point, but I did not have a relationship with Jesus. Two completely different things. ⁓ grew grew up in the Catholic church. My dad walked away from his faith when he was ⁓ probably in his twenties. I wanted to be like dad when I grew up so I did the same thing. So by the time I was out of high school I was not going to church. I was I I was going to a tavern every Friday and Saturday night getting into trouble. ⁓ and that was something that I don't want to put just a blanket label on the archery industry, but you go to an ATA show, especially ten, fifteen years ago, it was like a college frat party with guys with dudes wearing camel, right? That that's what it was. And and the enemy had told me the lie that, hey, you better be out until two in the morning shutting these places down and doing doing shots with with all of your best dealers and your best customers if you want to be successful in this space. And that was a lie that I believed and the the success that came to us wasn't doing anything to not feed that lie, right? ⁓ I was married at the time and unfortunately, well not unfortunately, it was just part of God's plan, but ⁓ ended up getting divorced in the ⁓ fall of two thousand ten at thirty-five years old and here I am, you know, the head of this very successful archery space. Now I'm now I'm free. Now I'm making money and it's all mine and I can just go out and have as much fun as I want. And I was a fool. I was an absolute fool. ⁓ alcohol, women. I I was on a ⁓ I I'm a huge Zack Williams fan. I love Christian music and he has a line in one of his songs saying that he he paved a road to h ⁓ paved a road to hell with stones that he laid himself. Mm. And that was me. Yeah. That was me. That was where I was going. I was paving myself a one way, one way road to hell. ⁓ and I didn't care. I I wasn't I I never got I I'm sure I was depressed at the time, but I never got, you know, to the point where I wanted to take my own life. I wasn't suicidal, but it's like, well, if I don't come home tomorrow, if this is my last day, I'm gonna make it a good one. That was just my my mentality. and December, I think it was December seventeenth of twenty eleven. ⁓ down at my favorite hangout spot for the for a for a Friday night, I ended up meeting a woman that changed my life. and for the first time in my life I I saw what Jesus looked like in the flesh. I saw someone living out their faith, being the hands and feet of Jesus, ⁓ dated this woman for five years and it's she is living proof that that Jesus Christ exists because there is not a sane woman on this planet that would have stayed with me during those five years had it had it not been for the power of Christ in her. Wow. What a gift. Yeah. I I I thank her and I thank God for it every day. fr from the first moment that I started dating her, my future in laws were praying for me. That the three of them were praying for my salvation. And it took five years 'cause I mean I was I was torn between this persona, this false image of this successful man that I built up that was an absolute fool. And then being pulled towards what I didn't know at first was was Jesus. And finally it it was after a a sales trip down to ⁓ to a NASCAR race. I'm a huge NASCAR fan. ⁓ April of twenty fifteen I went down there with my sales manager at the time and and got drunk for three nights in a row, went to the NASCAR races and just was a complete imbecile towards towards my girlfriend. Didn't call her, texted her a couple times, but just just being a fool. And I came home and I sat on her bed and I looked at her and I said, I have to I have to change. Something has to change here. I can't do this anymore. ⁓ I'm either gonna end up dead or in jail. Either way I don't get to be with you. You deserve better than this. ⁓ I want to start going to church with you. And so 'cause I mean she would go to church every Sunday morning, even though she was hanging out with a hoodlum like me, she was still strong in her faith, going with her parents. And so we started going to church that Sunday. And I'll never forget this. There was a couple ⁓ on our worship team, Matt and Bonnie Green, and I love I love music. I I've always loved music as long as I can remember. And Assembly of God church. I mean a little different than Catholic Church, right? Yeah. We get in there and and and all of a sudden there's a band on stage and they're like, All right, everybody, let's get on our feet. We're gonna we're gonna worship the Lord this morning. I'm like this isn't my mom and dad's Catholic church, is it? Okay. What's the guitar doing this? I can get into this and and God was using my love of music to draw me back to him. And so over the course of the next year, you know, I was going to church every Sunday. ⁓ she bought me a Bible and I started getting into God's word, started surrounding myself with better quality men that that were, you know, most of them were married, they had kids, they were they were strong followers of Jesus and started going to Bible studies and stuff and got saved in the summer of twenty sixteen. and God took he took alcohol and he took fall language away from me just like that. So you're you're just coming into your tenth year birthday. Yeah. Yep, yep. I've been a l I'm I'm eleven years sober and ten years ten years ⁓ you know, I I got baptized ⁓ I you know I got baptized as an infant, you know, in the Catholic Church, but then I got baptized about six weeks before Holly and I got married. We'll we'll be married nine years in September. So you were in late thirties when you became a believer. I was forty. Forty years old. I was four I was forty one, yeah. Wow, that is so neat. That is ⁓ Yeah. What The gracious God, right? To allow that whole process to come and yet the mercy of God. Yeah, and just and then and then I look back at all the favor that he has given me in the outdoor space in the archery industry. I mean, people people knew me, right? For for a lot of years before I knew Jesus. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. And and now it's like, you know, I I'm I'm not a bashful guy. I I I'll talk to anybody. You you put me in a room with a hundred strangers and I'm gonna walk out with ninety-nine new friends, right? ⁓ but going back to that ATA show for the first time as now a sober guy and as a follower of Jesus, I was a little like, Mm, how's this gonna go? Right. And and one of my drinking buddies from the past year, you know, first night of the show, we're we're passing each other in the hall. Hey, we'll see you at the karaoke bar tonight on. I'm like, No, I don't think so. And I kinda kinda got one of those looks. And and it didn't take long for people to realize that that I wasn't the guy that that they knew from before. ⁓ and then getting plugged into that prayer breakfast, I mean that that has just been one of the greatest blessings to me going to the going to the show. I was gonna ask too how you got involved in that specifically. I remember a few years back when we were there, I remember hearing your testimony and hearing you speak there, and that was such a blessing. How how did you get like even more involved? 'Cause you're You're really, really involved in heading it up now. How did that whole process take place? Boy, I wanna say it might have been through I think it was probably through Merle Fredericks from Christian Bow Hunters, because even before I was saved, Merle would email us every year. I mean, this is going back probably fifteen years. I mean I'm I'm five, six years before getting saved. and ⁓ we we would donate a site to them every year for their, you know, their annual fundraiser and I I think it was Merle maybe that had mentioned something about the prayer breakfast. and I just started going as an attendee and then I ended up meeting Brad Clay. Brad and I got to be pretty good friends and then ⁓ I got this this is a cool story. So I think the thing that really turned the corner for me and it was the it was the year that I shared my testimony, so that would have been the fall of twenty nineteen because it was twenty twenty, it was two months before COVID is when I shared my testimony there. We were there. Yeah, we were there. And it was the fall of twenty nineteen. I was I was driving out to my farm and Bret Brad had kind of set the table for me, but he's like Howard Tripp is going to be calling you. I think he wants you to share his testimony because I had shared my testimony with Brad and he's like, You you really need to share that. I think people would would resonate with it. And my dad had just passed away that July. We didn't have a we we had kind of a downturn in business that year and just the the enemy again attacking me, giving me all these reasons why I don't ⁓ and I had just launched my ministry, my nonprofit. We had just started that in the fall of ⁓ you know in October of twenty nineteen. So I had a lot of stuff going on. ⁓ and I I was like two minutes from my farm and my my phone rings and it's Howard Tripp and I let it go to voicemail. I knew what he was gonna ask me, so I get my gear on I get tucked into my blind and I I listen to the voicemail and sure enough, yeah, we'd love to have you share at the prayer breakfast. And this was on a Friday night and remember coming home and I I sent him and his wife an email and just thanked them and gave them all the reasons why I wasn't gonna do it. And ⁓ sent it off and Howard emails me back Monday morning. Well yeah, you know, we we understand. Just just keep it in mind for the future. Tuesday afternoon I'm on my way out to the farm. Same spot on the highway. It wasn't an audible voice but I ho I felt the Holy Spirit tell me you are gonna speak at that breakfast because somebody needs to hear your testimony. Who might argue with the Holy Spirit, right? So I I went from a hard no to a hard yes just like that. ⁓ I ended up calling Howard and actually ⁓ to to two of my closest friends now I met those guys as a result of that breakfast. There we had three hundred and sixty people there that year. and I don't I don't say this by any means Two brag. ⁓ but that was like October, so that's like two months out from the show. I think we had a couple of hundred people signed up to come to the breakfast at that point, maybe two fifty. ⁓ once I knew that I was speaking, I started pushing it on social media. I started calling people, I'm like, Hey, do you wanna buy a table, you wanna do this, you wanna do that? Three hundred and sixty people came to the breakfast that year and I always joke that I hit leadoff for David Blanton 'cause David spoke. Yep, yeah. I remember that after I telephone. He won the bow. Yeah, he did. He won the he won the Hoit boat. That was the year I don't remember that, but they did the drawing, but Blanton won the Hoyt. And I don't think he's allowed to shoot a Hoyt. I think whatever it was. He won whatever he couldn't shoot. Yeah. And it was very funny. Yeah, but we we were so excited that year because we thought, man, this is awesome. Three hundred and sixty people. We're gonna need a bigger room. We're gonna have five hundred people here next year. Well, then the whole world shut down and there wasn't even a show the following year. But yeah ⁓ but yeah, so so Brad and I Brad MC's The Breakfast. Tim and I got to be pretty close after that, so now we've kind of done that together. and it's just it's a passion of mine. I mean, I've I've had some of my close friends, you know, share their testimonies there and ⁓ it it's definitely the highlight of the trade show for me to be able to go there and openly share the gospel with ⁓ you know, a couple of hundred people and seeing people come to faith. That's that's why we're doing what we're doing. We're not I'm not here to sell bow sites. I I'm here to share the gospel. If God wants to sell some sites for me, great. But Yeah, absolutely. Put him first and and he will he he will bless you abundantly. Yeah, whatever happens, happens. And and yet we have this unbelievable privilege to adorn the gospel of Christ, right? Or to be lights in darkness. And man, if you're not a light and darkness, what what does God have you here for? And ⁓ what a privilege to talk about ⁓ what he's done for us. Let me let I gotta get this off before I ask you the next question, because your shirt has this really weird design to it. And ⁓ ⁓ and and so you might as well explain it to us while it's here 'cause it's gonna make it. So w what does that shirt say? I and I I it was funny last night 'cause I knew this was gonna be a video podcast. I'm like, what shirt should I wear today? What what do I want to advertise? And I I have too many t shirts, so I've and I shouldn't say this, but my wife has the bedroom ⁓ has the closet in our master bedroom. I have the spare bedroom closet with all my T shirts in it. Ditto. Good. And and because I have so many t shirts, there's usually a pile of like fifteen to twenty extras that are on the bed because I I get more shirts than I have a body to wear. So and this one just so happened to be on the top. Are you guys fans of the chosen? ⁓ I I've seen it, yes. I do like it. Yep. But I haven't watched all of it, but it's it's good. So this is a this is a chosen shirt and this is Hebrew for five and two, which is ⁓ five loaves and two fish. Yep. Dallas Jenkins, the creator of the chosen, says that it's not our job to feed the five thousand. We just need to bring the loaves and fish. Okay. And I love that. So I like to support the chosen and like to wear the shirt and it's ⁓ it always 'cause people are like, what is that? So boom. An opportunity to share the gospel. So hopefully when I go to Quick Trip or Walmart today, somebody be Hey, what does your shirt say? And you say ⁓ five loaves and two fishes, don't you know what that means? Yeah. Wonderful. I love it. I l I love when we And don't mean Barry, but when we place into the things that we're doing, points of conversation. Cause you know the difference between a good learner and a bad learner. A good learner is one who asks a question of somebody. They become a much better listener than someone who's just standing on a street corner yelling at somebody. So if someone says to you, Well, what does that shirt say? Guess what? You got both ears wide open for a few moments. And ⁓ God God can use that to do do amazing things and and and that's a good thing. I'll be willing to Try to stir up that conversation. Yep. This one you guys probably won't see unless I s show it to you, but you see the ⁓ see the sharpie cross on my wrist? Yep. Have you guys seen the ⁓ I Can Only Imagine movies? Yes, I have. Yep. Yep. So after and you saw the second one? I saw the second one. That was really good. That was really special. Yeah, ever since seeing that I I put a cross on my wrist every morning just to thank God for another day and reminds me of why I'm here. So you didn't tattoo it on yet. No, no, 'cause my mother in law's like, Did you get a tattoo? So much trouble. Yeah. No no judgment on anybody that has tattoos, but I'm not an ink guy, so she kinda looked at me a little like. So you're write it on every day. You can wear your W W J D bracelet and you can do that. My mom did that all the way to her passing day. I mean she wore W W J D and I don't know, as soon they came out and it was always funny. Mom had that bracelet on and everybody knew it and the grandkids knew it. So that's Yeah, and I've got a Proverbs I have a Proverbs twenty seven seventeen bracelet on my wrist. I got that from a veteran a couple months ago that we gifted a bow to. ⁓ that's Iron sharpens iron. That's one of my favorite favorite Bible verses. So we can't we can't do this life alone, especially the Christian life. It can be a lonely lonely road, so we need other other men walking with us on it. All right. So a few years ago I was on a I was on a hunt and ⁓ one of the gentlemen that was in camp wasn't part of my group, ⁓ kept arguing with everybody about he was he was Christian and and he would say it in broad term, but he was agnostic about God and who Christ was. And it it was just like this three day, you know, breakfast. If you're on bear hunt camps in Canada, you know how the mornings can be really laid back and everybody's at the table drinking coffee, waiting for the afternoon hunts. And finally at like three days into it, one of the guys I was with got tired of the Of the banter of a guy because he didn't connect the dots between what he was saying and how that couldn't be true. Both of those statements can't be true. You know, you you there's a passageway to go here. And so he finally turned to him and says, Listen, I don't want to talk to you about anything else. I just want you to sit and think and answer this one question for me. And this is what we're going to ask you today and and get your response. And he turned to him and he says, Who is Jesus? So just answer that question for me. Who is Jesus? Jesus is my Lord and Savior, He's my everything. That's that's the short and sweet. I could I could go on for hours about who Jesus is, but Jesus saved my life and it's it's my job to to share the Great Commission and and share him with as many people as as I can in the time that he's allotted me. So Yeah Okay. I love it. Thank you. That's a very simple answer. I I I had sat in that hunt and when the guy asked that question, I was kinda like, Well, that's almost too simple. But then the guy stammered. He had no idea how to answer it. And and and it was interesting to listen to that. ⁓ we had another guy we did a podcast a couple of weeks ago. He's gone through some just some huge, he has some deep, deep physical health issues right now in his life. Like his life could end at any moment and and no one would be surprised. Some teenage sons, you know, just the burden of all of this going on in his life. And when we asked him the question who's Jesus, he said, He's my rock. And and you're kind of like going, Well, wait a minute, that's not the right Sunday school answer. But boy, if you're going through deep water You want to rock. And ⁓ so that's that's always ⁓ it's it's been fun for us to to allow people to ⁓ you know, to to say that. Let's talk out loud. Let's not be ashamed of of who who our God is and what he's done for us. ⁓ it's a privilege to do it. I mean that gentleman obviously walking through some stuff, so obviously his answer is probably different than mine is right now, but I mean the longer that we're following him, that answer should be I gave you a short and sweet answer, but we should be able to continue to fill notebook pages about who he is. Yep. Yep. E every day that we walk outside, if we're opening our eyes, we we should have another thing to add. ⁓ Jesus is this. He's this. Yep. Yeah. He's the he's ⁓ we had another guy tell us he's the s the what, the seven ims of the book of John. And I kinda went, Whoa, what have you been reading? But I mean, you know, it but it's been really, really fun to get to get those chains of answers and we appreciate ⁓ your answers. You have one other thing and I I wanna spend a little bit of time on it before we close up and also respect your time. ⁓ H H A U S A. What is that? That's a long answer, so ⁓ you only have one minute. Yeah. Back before I got saved, so this would have been like twenty twelve, twenty thirteen, Holly Holly's my wife. ⁓ we were dating at the time and our our church sponsored what they call the neighborhood table and it was a meal in town that they did at every Thursday and the last two Tuesdays of every month, and it was held at a church different Churches, different businesses could sponsor this meal, but it was for folks that were less fortunate. And ⁓ they happened to be sponsoring the meal for that was around Christmas Eve that year, so it was like the week leading up to Christmas. I don't know if it was a Tuesday or Thursday, but she asked me if I would serve at it. And I'm like, sure, why not? And so I go there and I had no idea what God had planned, but I put this hot plate of food in front of this gentleman. It might have been the only hot meal that he got all day. And and that was the beginning of God kind of chipping away my armor and humbling me on what it was like to serve other people. And and I'll never I'll never forget that. and then I my father in law, very wise man, always tells me to write stuff down, and I wish I would have written this down because I'm just going from memory. It's like, well, I think it was roughly this year, this time. If had I written this down I would have a better timeline of how the whole story of H H A USA built, but that was the beginning. ⁓ And then are you guys familiar with the Honor Flight Network? Yes. Vaguely. Yes. So so they there's about a hundred and thirty chapters around the country. It started with World War Two, but they send World War II Korea and Vietnam vets to DC for a one day trip to visit all the war ⁓ war memorials, and then they get a big welcome home at the airport that night when they come home. there was a chapter that started about an hour from our house, right around that same time. and Jonathan Lucroy, who was our catcher for the Brewers at the time, had made his first All Star team, and there was an article on him in the newspaper, which for you young kids at home, that was a paper that had news printed on it. It wasn't a screen. and Holly and I were on the couch reading the sports page one night and I saw this article about Lu Croy, and then like the last paragraph it says Lu Croy recently went on the Stars and Stripes honor flight out of Milwaukee, ⁓ you know, with a hundred and ten ⁓ World War Two Korean Vietnam veterans. And I got to be buddies with him because he a guy that he played in the miners with was an archer, so we got introduced. So I just texted him, I'm like, Hey, what's what's up with this honor flight thing? And keep in mind he's two or three years in the league, first all star nomination. He's like, dude, hands down, the coolest experience of my life. I'm like, Okay, so I start doing a little research on it. Well then something about Brewers catchers, like a short time later, Bill Schroeder, who was a catcher for the Brewers back in the eighties, who's now our one of our T V guys, had just written a book. And he was signing copies of it at the local VFW. So Holly and I decide to go down and get a copy for ourselves. We're gonna get one for my father in law, who's a Vietnam vet, is a big Brewers fan. Who do we happen to be in line in front of, coincidence, which I don't believe in, is the founder of the honor flight up in Wausau. And so we hit it off, we exchanged contact info, and he's like, Well, if this is something you'd like to do, he's We're always looking for volunteers. So twenty thirteen ish. I I start as a grunt or a ground volunteer for the local honor flight. and they do a wonderful job. Some of these honor flights are one day. They do a two day deal where they bring the veterans and the spouses in. They put ⁓ up for free in a hotel. They put on this awesome dinner for them. They have a USO show, musical entertainment forum. They just really roll out the red carpet. So it it takes a crew of a hundred plus volunteers to pull this whole thing off. ⁓ So I did that for a couple of years and just absolutely fell in love with it. It was so nice taking my my HHA owner hat off, right? And just being like, hey, what what can I do? ⁓ and got God teaching me how to serve even before I was serving him, right? So so I'm doing good work, I'm doing volunteer work, and one of those nights I'm driving home from the airport about midnight after the flight got in, and I'm thinking, man, I've got a really successful archery business. How could I leverage that for this cause that I love so much? So I just started knocking on doors of all my industry buddies. Hey, Fort Arrow, would you guys send one of your camera arms so that we can put it out on the silent auction? So over three summers, it was twenty twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, we put on ten archery chutes within about a hour radius of where I live. And we raised eighty five thousand dollars and gave all the money to the honor flight. Wow. and I also I'm kind of bouncing around, but there's there's a few different kind of factors that led to the formation of HHA USA. So it's it's building. Well then go back to twenty sixteen. I got invited out to West Point. A guy that was on our pro staff at the time was a a combat wounded veteran. he was shot in Afghanistan. He ended up winning the bronze medal one year and he won gold the following year at the Department of Defense Warrior Games using our site. And he had become the coach for the army that year and so he invited me out and so I went out there with my best buddy at the time and and our social media guy and I I will never forget sitting in the stands. There there was a gentleman and I feel so bad for for for ten years I've told I've told this story hundreds of times and and I never took the time to go to the internet and look up the guy's name and it's so ironic, y you guys are gonna love what his first name was. But I always referred to him as the guy. ⁓ He had been blown up by an ID, his face completely reconstructed, and he had no fingers. and and he was shooting a bow and arrow with a mouth tap and just almost robotically putting one arrow after the next into a like the end of my water bottle. And I looked at the two guys that I'm with and I said two things. Number one, I'm never again going to complain that I'm having a bad day. That was ten years ago. I've had a lot of bad days in the last ten years, but I don't complain about ⁓ because I know that there's somebody that's got it worse than I do. And number two I I have to do something about it. In in that moment that that was where God showed me what post traumatic stress looks like in the flesh and the positive effect that a bow and arrow could have. And and so the idea for H H E USA was really birthed in that moment. It took three years to come to fruition. ⁓ and you want to know what that guy's first name was? Israel. Yeah. Really? Israel. I I don't I I was so embarrassed because I you know, here I am a born again Christian and and for ten years I'm telling this man's story and and I'm just referring to him as the guy. I finally looked it up last summer and I just I laughed right out loud. I'm like, Lord, you have A wonderful sense of humor. Yeah. The the man that that helped birth my ministry, his name is Israel. How how crazy is that? Well that's ⁓ that's always it's a f it's fun to see and watch. ⁓ you know, your your group, your team, and I know the people that you're networking with and watching it and you know, we pray for you guys and we pray for your groups 'cause we know th some of you guys in Wisconsin are are carrying a lot of load and and are really ⁓ not ashamed of the gospel, not ashamed to talk about your faith. And and I appreciate that. I appreciate that for myself and for the guys that are in our circles because it's fun to point at you guys and say, guys, look at you can be successful. You can do the right thing and you can be a believer in Jesus Christ and you can not don't have to be ashamed of it. And we can stand in the in the current world. And ⁓ that's that's really exciting. And to hear you the story of giving back, you know, it's one thing, yeah, I did really, really well and I'm gonna tell you about all the money I made and I retired at the age of, you know, fifty five. ⁓ come on. We do better than that. No, we're we're really trying to engage with people and and I think that's a good challenge for us and for the generation coming behind us to be able to see us doing that. So thank you very much. We all have to be examples. But I mean that that's kinda how HHA USA came to be. And I mean we did for the first five or six years we did public shoots. You know, we didn't want to shun the public. We were doing Saturday and Sunday events and then got to be pretty close with the guys at Vortex and about four years ago I was down there on their tour for probably the second or third time and I just it I'm it's pretty hard to impress me, but you go into that place, it's like this is awesome. I if I didn't own HHA I would want to work at Vortex. That's just that's that that's not a paid plug, but I just everything that those folks stand for, they get it. and I talked to my guy there, I'm like, what are the chances of us bringing in, you know, a group of vets and first responders to get this awesome red carpet tour like you give me and he's like, Let's do it. So we did that four years ago and then Three years ago. We we were there for the second time. And I don't know if you guys have had Aaron Shear or if you guys know Aaron from Center Shop, but Aaron, very close friend of mine, he's very close with Matt McPherson, president of Center Shop Ministries, he was at our shoot at Vortex and he looked at me and he's like, I think Matt would be interested in doing one of these at their place. I said, Really? And so, pretty easy for me to get one at ours. All I had to do is look at myself in the mirror, right? Yeah, and then And then get my brother's blessing on it. And then ⁓ Aaron lives in Green Bay, so he's closely tied to the Green Bay Police Department. ⁓ who's closely tied to the Packers. So so for the last two years now, we we've had four events. We've gone from eight events down to four, and we only do one big Saturday. We don't do Saturday and Sunday, but we have a private event, we call them archery retreats on the Thursday and Friday leading up to our public Saturday. We have one at Vortex, one at Matthews, one here at HHA, and one at Lambeau. And literally have vets and first responders coming in from all across the country for these events. And yeah, we're loving on ⁓ We feed Shields is a big partner of ours. Shields pays for all the archery shoot fees, so they don't have to pay a dime to shoot archery all weekend. We have food sponsors, so they get lunch and dinner for Thursday and Friday. They just have to bring their fun money for the novelty shoots and the silent auction. ⁓ But then we share the gospel with them. And I mean we have we we have people that are coming to faith at these events. and that's that's what it's all about. I mean, I don't I don't get paid a dime to run HHA USA. This is something that I do in my spare time. I'm not saying this to brag, but I mean I just I don't I don't need the money. I'm paid well for what I do for my for profit, so my non profit, all the money goes back to the cause. and it's just something that I'm very passionate about and you know, telling that story about the Warrior games and seeing that That man and what Archery had done for him. I mean I've I've had guys come up to me and say, Your organization and and this family that you've built here saved my life. Yeah, changed. Yeah, creating creating community. When when God called me to it ten years ago, you know, I said, I if if I do this for forty years and it changes one person's life, I will do it. A and and it's changed more than one. It's changed mine. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. What a model ⁓ for giving back. And the and the center shot piece is so exciting. I'm I'm I'm excited to get Aaron on the podcast and talk with you because so ironically w we're only a hundred miles from Green Bay. We we didn't know each other six years ago when I started HH A USA. We did we didn't know each other, we had mutual friends. And they had a critical incident in Green Bay around the same time that I founded this and it was ⁓ it was a officer involved shooting and Aaron was unpacking that with the two officers and they were They were both men, they're tough guys, you know, how are you guys doing? We're fine, we're fine. They weren't. Yeah. He knew that, but he didn't want to push the issue with them, and he said, Well, one thing I do for my mental health is I shoot a bow and arrow, and I'm I'm struggling just to talk to you guys about this, so I'm gonna head to the archery shop when we're done here. If you guys want to join me, you're welcome to. And they did. And within three months they had a couple dozen active military, veterans, law enforcement, firefighters, nurses coming down to Hunter's Edge Archery in Green Bay, Wisconsin, to get aerotherapy. Sense of what it was. And yeah, they were shooting bows, but but the powerful part of the conversation happened when they put the bows down and they just sat down. It gave them it gave ⁓ a healthy environment, a healthy space to unpack their stuff, right? And so leading up to that point, center shot was a great ministry, international ministry for youth archery. But but in that moment, God put center shot blue on Aaron's heart, and so he started ministering to veterans, law enforcement, first responders, the same identical group of people that I'm ministering to a hundred miles to the west. Yeah. And one of our friends at Matthews is like, you guys need to meet. There's no need to reinvent the wheel here. And so him and I have become very close. And our mission, our shared mission now is to plant a thousand of those center shot outposts across the country. Cause I mean we only do four events in Wisconsin a year, which are great. But you come to one of my events as a veteran and you're like, man, this is awesome, Chris. I can't thank you enough. I can't wait to come back next year. Well, what are you going to do for the next 365 days to be okay? N now I have that in the form of Center Shop Blue where I can say, here, take take this home with you, start this at your local bow shop, start this at your local archery range. Now you can have the same exact experience that you have here on a weekend in Wisconsin once a year, fifty-two weeks a year, right in your own community. You you can have impact. Right where you're at. So that that's what really excites me about this. It's not about HHA USA, it's not about center shot blue. Ultimately, it's about serving people and just giving it away. I love it. I I think we're gonna end on that because I think that's a phenomenal story and a good way to end. And well, and that one is just that story is literally just getting started. ⁓ I say that all the time. I say it on social media all the time, but I mean we're th this is just the tip of the iceberg. I am I'm very proud of what our company has accomplished in the archery space over the last forty years. ⁓ and and whenever the day comes that I'm no longer here with with HHA, Lord willing, there's a there's a seat for me with centershot because I'm not gonna I'm not gonna be the guy that's gonna retire and go sit on the beach and you're never gonna see me again. That's not that's not me. I'm I'm here to to actively proclaim the gospel and and Aaron and I say it all the time. You know, God gave Moses a staff, he gave us bows and arrows. And so that's what we get to do is go go share Jesus with ⁓ with a Matthews bow in our hand at an HHA site and see what he's got in store for us. Well, thank you very much. We we Yeah. We really appreciate your time. We know you are flying and there's a lot going on. And ⁓ just your willingness to to give us a big chunk and your thought process has has just been a real gift. So thank you very much. And ⁓ you have a wonderful day. Curse ham. Yeah, yeah, what do you think? That was really fun. What a great story. Like it's it's amazing how s God spoke, you know, God moved in his life at forty years old, he gets saved. And then when we saw him speak at the Prayer breakfast. You'd think he'd been doing it for how many years? Do you know what I mean? No, no, you wouldn't have guessed the first time. I just started. He was just such a new Christian, and you can just see his fervor. The passion, yeah. Yeah, to want to to reach other people with the amazing good news that he received. Like it's so special. No. Yeah, no, it's amazing to see like how he's thinking it through and how careful and how he's just gun-ho about wanting to make an impact in the world around him. I mean, I also love his answer too. I mean, it was simple, but you know, it's amazing to me for then of couple of these interviews now we've always had a different a different take on the answer on the question. It's actually kind of fun. You would you would think that there would be a cookie cutter. Nope. No, there's not. It's it's where you're at in life. And but in in essence the the main truth is still sitting there. Yes. You know you know what it is. And yeah. We won't play without more than that. Yeah. Well thank you for joining us. Make sure to like, follow, and subscribe wherever you listen to the podcast. And remember, take aim with your life for the glory of God.