Ciara Gogan (she/her): Welcome to this episode of Stumbling Through Growth. I started this podcast to have conversations with people that I respect and admire and am inspired by about life, the journey, growth, whatever it be. one of my favorite things is having these kind of conversations, having deep conversations with people about real life. life is messy, it's not clean or linear. ⁓ I think we think sometimes we've worked through like whatever, a problem, a lesson, whatever. Okay, we're done with that thing and we're like, Yeah, no. ⁓ it's gonna come ⁓ It's gonna come for in in back around in some in some way, shape or form. one of the things I people to get out of these conversations is this that we all have messy growth journeys. ⁓ I know I'm still learning all the time.
Novaczar: Thank you ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): And so I'm just really grateful to my guests for being open to sharing their experiences with me and with all of you. so here's a little bit about about my guest today, Novaczar, Empress of the Galaxy, best name ever. Okay, so Novaczar is a full-time drag artist in New York City. Previous credits and accomplishments include being a contestant on Queen of the Universe, season one on Paramount Plus, Get Out Magazine's 2025 Entertainer of the Year. That's pretty cool.
Novaczar: Thank Thank
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Virgin Voyages Diva Swing and currently has a weekly residence residency solo show titled Unseen A Cabaret of Love, Hope, and Survival. I know where that name came from. Novaczar We'll get we'll get there. It's every Wednesday at the Duplex in the heart of West Village. it's been running for two years now. Nova also works at Rise Bar in Hell's Kitchen every Friday and Saturday at 11 p.m. where I am firmly tucked away asleep. ⁓
Novaczar: ⁓ you ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): and Nova combines her love of all things musical theatre with abstract artistic references such as Lee Bowery, Boy George, and the eccentric fashions of the 80s. By the way, the 80s was my era, like so I'm very aware of the eccentric fashions. Nova's voice, artistry, and perspective on drag is truly one a kind. Thank you so much for being here for saying yes when I asked you to do this.
Novaczar: ⁓ my god, it's an honor. Thank you for having me. I'm excited.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Absolutely. I mean, I'm just like, I don't know. I've asked like so many people, different people, and like almost everybody has said yes. this is so bizarre to me. I'm like, why? But okay, I love I love it. I love it. I love it. ⁓ I don't know. Thank you. I appreciate that. ⁓ So the I'm asking, sort of starting asking all my guests, is who is Noah? And I so for you I have like who is Noah slash Novaczar?
Novaczar: Because you're cool! Like, why not? Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): So the question is really like not what you do but who you are. But I but I'm wondering in some in in for you, maybe like Novaczar is what you do and who you are. If that makes sense.
Novaczar: Yeah. Hmm Yeah, ⁓ I mean the first thing that popped into my head when you said who am I I feel like I'm an alien living a human experience You know, know like we're living in a world right now where like disclosure seems to be like the hot topic specifically on the news but I Think that I'm just wild crazy eccentric artist feels everything very very deeply ⁓ and like and goes hand-in-hand with Noah and and Nova ⁓ and like when comes to my Drag persona Novaczar the Empress of the Galaxy as I call myself I think that Nova is of Noah blown up on like a, what's the word? Like a billboard. And for everybody to see and is polished and very put together and in ways way more grounded and way more unapologetic than Noah is, which is interesting when ⁓ kind of thinking about like who are you as a human being and then like, you're able to step into this persona every week, multiple times a week, and all the kind of insecurities and things that you feel as a human being are kind of washed away because you can put them aside for a second and let this kind of armor and kind of like superhero cape almost take over. so that's, guess, the answer that I have for you right now. ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): that. But that's really cool and and that's really interesting to me 'cause I know like different like I've I've had sort of side conversations with with actors who have said, you know, Like I remember I having this conversation with this one person just through text and I was saying, like ha like I could never do the things that that you did as that person, right? As that act as that character. And they said like that but that's the thing, like you're sort of stepping out of like you're stepping into their bravery almost, or you're stepping into their whatever it might be, right? yeah. And I think in this case it was kind of a bravery thing. And so that's sort of what that sounds a little bit like to me, that you're like you're able to
Novaczar: Thank Mm. Yeah. Yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Like Novaczar is the armor, but is also very much you.
Novaczar: Yeah, I always say that, like, ⁓ you're a drag queen, at for me, especially because I did musical theatre for so many years and I am trained, it's like a never-ending character study. And I'm always finding out new things about Nova. And the nice thing about being a drag artist is that there's not a director or producer or anybody telling me that I can't do something or I need to pull back or I need to, ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm.
Novaczar: Shipped in any way because you know of it doesn't follow this like storyline. I'm creating the storyline I'm creating the narrative. I'm creating what Nova is feeling in that moment depending on what I'm feeling that day depending on what Noah is feeling that day, know and like what I've when I Prepare my materials and when I prepare my looks even it stems from what it could have Noah feeling in that moment and what do I need to do to one make sure that I
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Right.
Novaczar: can tap into Nobizar's energy, but then also make sure that it's still authentic and real and honest, which is always like goes in line with like what acting is all about, the truth and finding the honesty. So it's quite interesting.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm-hmm. Right. That's really cool. I love that. And I wonder, like, I obviously I don't know if all drag artists feel the same way, but like I f I I've always looked at drag as putting on like a person like putting on somebody else. Especially I suppose I suppose maybe you know, the drag artists that like do impersonations. Like if somebody's doing Judy Garland, like they are they are embodying that person, right? But your your art is like you are Novaczar and you are Noah and you are the art.
Novaczar: Yeah. Of course. ⁓ Yes, yeah, and like, you know, first of all, I think a big misconception about drag is that like, it's, ⁓ it's like so showy and like, you know, you're, everybody has their own persona, which is who does drag, they do it in their own different way. And that's what makes it so beautiful. You know I'm saying? There are no limitations, despite what you might see on television or what you might hear. You I'm saying? In society, ⁓ I've used drag as a way to ⁓ step into the leading lady fantasies that I've always wanted to live out when I was like that little gay boy living in Virginia Beach. You know what I'm saying? And doing theatre and community theatre and having like men empowered that were often times the directors, rarely were there any female directors or any females that were in charge, you know, that were telling me like, you will not play a leading lady. You are not a woman. You don't know what it's like to live a female experience.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Right.
Novaczar: So you need to butch it up and in a way like being able to kind of heal from that is why I have my drag persona. You know what I'm saying? And so I'm able to show little Noah like, no, you can be whatever you want. You know what I'm saying? And you can play Diana at Next to Normal if that is what you want to do. You know I'm saying? And you don't have to...
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right.
Novaczar: You don't have to follow any sort of rules ⁓ because they're meant to be broken in my mind.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Absolutely. And I think like honestly for somebody in theatre to be saying that, like like if if I know theatre didn't start with Shakespeare, but like in you know, the Greek the Greek tradition and then in Shakespeare, like, all the parts were played by men. I mean, hello all the time.
Novaczar: Right. Exactly, exactly men played women Yeah, yeah because women were not allowed to be on stage and they were not allowed to express themselves in the way that they should and I we've always wanted to you know what I'm saying It's ⁓ wild the way the society works when they try and dictate art and what it should and shouldn't be Yeah, ⁓ so for me, it's not about like ⁓ I'm putting something on to me. It's more like I'm enhancing what's already in me ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): I know. Yeah. Right.
Novaczar: It's interesting like I could feel physically ill my will hurt or my mind will be like in a whole nother place and then as soon as no like I put on the drag it's like Nova takes over but not in a way of like now I'm Novaczar, it's like ⁓ my energy has been my frequency has lifted You know, I've I'm heightened. I feel like a heightened version of myself And it's almost like Nova is here to pick up Noah in a very beautiful way, which kind of makes me emotional when I think about it. Yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm-hmm. I love that. Yeah. Well that's fine. I mean, it's but to have that outlet is like and I don't I'm not obviously diminishing it to just an outlet, but to have that ability or have that place to go and to put yourself a in a place of confidence 'cause I feel like I know for me, you know, ⁓ I first of all growing up I grew up in Ireland, ⁓ at a time when it was literally a criminal offence to be gay and I'm like, that was fun. ⁓
Novaczar: Cool. Yeah. Right.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): And so it was just like there was no escape for me, right? At that. And I don't escape sounds like the wrong it's probably the wrong word, but there was nowhere for me to put my myself and be out in any way, shape, or form. Right? And then to go from, you know, that being the country that I grew up in to like, you know, 30 years later, Ireland was the first country to vote for equal marriage by popular vote, just makes me so happy and proud. Like it's just like it's amazing, right? It just like so it it like changes possible, right? ⁓
Novaczar: Yeah. I love that. Wow! That is amazing. Yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): But it but it also for me sort of it I think about like you having, you know, grown up like you said, Virginia Beach. I know you lost your parents early, and I have a question about that in a second, but like that you then have this ⁓ place to put little Noah and like sort of really blossom into Novaczar like three times a week, at least three times a week, is just a really cool ⁓ way to have outlet, an escape from or a healing from like from, you know, young stuff.
Novaczar: Yeah, and like, don't get me wrong, like there's so many challenges I deal with in drag ⁓ the regular. ⁓ But I think because like I just stepped away this weekend and ⁓ took and ⁓ went Long Island and Fire Island and was actually just Noah for a second, like it kind of brought me back to a place of like, ⁓ yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah.
Novaczar: Like I do love drag and like I do love New York and I do love what I do. But sometimes it's very easy to lose sight of that love when you're doing it as much as I am. ⁓ in New York City, which is one of the hardest cities in the world to live in, but one of the best cities in the world to live in. ⁓ Specifically being an artist. But no, I do feel very privileged grateful to ⁓ have persona and to ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah.
Novaczar: be at a level where I'm getting paid for it and that people often times need ⁓ have do what I'm doing. It seems to be the thing that I lose sight of far too often. ⁓ But ⁓ I know like when I when I've thought about quitting or when I've thought about like
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Hmm.
Novaczar: Oh, like, I don't know if I can do this anymore. And then like somebody ran on me. It's like, no, we need you. we need, like, we look forward to seeing what you're going to do. And that right there is what keeps me going. Like knowing that there's people out there that need to see the art that I'm creating, because that makes me feel like I'm making a difference. And it's not just selfishly for me, it's also for other people as well. Which is what I think is so beautiful about art. Like the way that you can connect in a way that transcends language.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. I think ⁓ you know, that idea of people acknowledging you so important, right? I think like no matter what world or you know, sphere or work or whatever you want to call it you do, like ⁓ that people appreciate what you do is so gratifying, ⁓ and important. ⁓ And think like so often we don't like we don't tell people in our lives
Novaczar: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): in in in a myriad of different ways. But especially I think in the work world, we don't tell people that we really appreciate them or that we need them or that we really like that they've actually made a difference. And it's so it's so important to do that if you can.
Novaczar: Yeah. Yeah, and it's interesting that I feel like it's kind of frowned upon sometimes and people like find it to be so uncomfortable and I'm like, no, you don't realize how much I needed to hear that because the demons inside and all the things that I hear that are the complete opposite of that, you know, ⁓ but it does feel like when you, you know, I'm a woo woo spiritual person. ⁓ you trust the universe, sometimes that the ⁓ moment when you needed to hear that the most is when
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Novaczar: it grants you with that kind of gift. You know what I'm saying? And so that can be very beautiful.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Yeah. It can be, but I also think like you invite that in, right? And you like you specifically. I I think I do a little bit as well. like you ⁓ like some the things that you post on Instagram or whatever, like not like obviously your content is always fabulous and and I love all your looks. It's just like so cool to watch. ⁓ but also the stuff that you post, like maybe that other people wrote, like the sort of maybe some of the sort of woo-woo spiritual kind of things.
Novaczar: Mmm. Thank you. Thank you. Mm-hmm.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): There's an invitation in that. I think at least when I post them, this is what what I'm thinking, sometimes what I'm thinking when I post things like that. There's an invitation in that for somebody else to respond and see and see you and see your heart a little bit more than you might expose in other ways or even in conversation.
Novaczar: Yeah. Yeah, and that's part of the reason why I do my best to post like inspirational things because It is for me, of course But it's also like I want somebody else to if they're having a bad day or something to see that and like Then they get the same satisfaction that I do when I as if when I first saw it You know what I'm saying? Like sometimes in my little where you can like post a note or whatever like I'll put you're beautiful or you're a warrior so that if somebody
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Right.
Novaczar: having a bad day and they just see that, it doesn't even have to be like, ⁓ it's me posting it. Just them seeing that quote could potentially shift their mood. And that right there, like knowing that that energy is being spread out is what makes me feel like there is good happening in the world. And it takes me two seconds to post that. You know what I'm saying? ⁓ So I think that that's just important, especially right now the world's on fire. Like, you know.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Right. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Like seriously. We need we need all the good things, right? Yeah. All the good things. We need them all. Yeah. And I and I think like if you think you also in doing I think when you post those the sort of inspirational things, like I do the same thing. And sometimes sometimes my ⁓
Novaczar: Yes, all the good quotes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): My motivation is just like it moved me, I wanna share it. And sometimes my mo not that I have to have motivation for everything, but you know what I mean? Like sometimes my mo my motivation is like, I need I needed this. Like I needed this and maybe if I sh share this, somebody might reach out and say, Hey, are you okay? You know what I mean? Like sometimes that's the sometimes that's it. And I think when you post some of the things that you post and maybe some of the things that you write yourself, ⁓ in in in
Novaczar: Yeah! Of course. Mmm. Mmm. Yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): you know, you've written very openly, I think, about like, hey, I'm struggling today. Like those kinds of things. And I think that's it's an invitation, right? I think it's a it's an admission, but it's an invitation as well. At least the way I read it.
Novaczar: Yeah, yeah, totally. Yes. Definitely. Yeah, sometimes it's a cry for help. ⁓ And but it's also like, there's a part and a lot of times like, ⁓ people are like, why do you post things like that? Like, like, you're so vulnerable. And it's like, because I need people to see that I'm a human being, you know, and that, yes, I'm fabulous and talented and all the all the wonderful things. But like, that doesn't come with all the hardships and the struggles as well.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah.
Novaczar: And I do find that despite like wanting it to be a cry for help sometimes, but it's also, think, hoping that I am doing okay, that somebody ⁓ be inspired by ⁓ I guess the story arc of, wow, like they might think that I'm so talented, but also like just last week they posted something about how they were struggling. Like that means that it... ⁓ if they can have those two ends of the spectrum happening at the same time or within the span of a couple of weeks, like maybe I can also be at the level that they are at, if that's what they're trying to achieve. You know what I'm saying? I just think that that's important to show like that duality. And that's always kind of important to me as an artist and as a human being. So I don't really shy away from that.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Right. One of the reasons why I wanted to talk to you ⁓ on this podcast specifically ⁓ was because of that, right? Because that's sort of what this is about. It's about, look, we all struggle. Like, if you think like somebody has all their shit together, they don't. Like, I guarantee you, they don't. I just read something the other day.
Novaczar: Yeah. Right.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): it was basically a quote from somebody saying, like, ugh, like some days I just suck and I I'm I don't like myself and I don't like the work I do. And I think it was Charles Dickens, which is so real, right? So yeah. So but I think like that's why I wanted have this do this this
Novaczar: Which is so real, that is so real. I love that.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): podcast because I think like we all struggle. We all have shit that happens and we don't like it and we think about we think thoughts that we don't like or something happens and like I said at the beginning, we think like I learned that lesson, I'm good, and then something comes along and like hits you in the face, be like, Hi, it's me again. Remember that lesson you thought you learned? Right, you need more, right? We we all have that and I think it's so important for people to hear that because people think that some people have all their shit together and nobody does.
Novaczar: you Yeah. Right. Yeah, I just have never subscribed to this idea that like, like, okay, I'll give you like a great example, like RuPaul. You know what I'm saying? Like during 2020, like there was a point where RuPaul wasn't posting on social media at all. And people were in a whole uproar about it. Like, why aren't you speaking out about this? Why aren't you, you know, telling us how you feel or whatever? Why aren't you protesting? Why aren't like, you know I'm saying? And like, there's two sides to this. One, they have a very valid point. But the other part of it is like, you are expecting somebody to do something for you ⁓ think that they should be doing. You're holding them to this expectation, but RuPaul is the one who gets to create that narrative. You know what I'm saying? And so I think it's interesting for me, like, I just, I don't necessarily need anybody to tell me what I should or should not be doing. Like I, I choose what I am going to put out there.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Right.
Novaczar: And if I'm feeling like being vulnerable than I will and if I don't then I won't like it's just you know and also like it's got me into trouble multiple times and and that's okay, too because like ⁓ find Beauty in the realness of it, you know and it also brings up wonderful beautiful conversation sometimes and I also think that it attracts like-minded people ⁓ much like yourself. You know what I'm saying? Like we wouldn't have this be having this conversation if
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. very much like yourself.
Novaczar: if it wasn't for the like mindedness of the both of us. And I think that that's a part of it as well. ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Right. Mm-hmm. Totally agree. I was following you because of Lempicka but we'll get there. ⁓ our mutual love. ⁓ I know, right. ⁓ know, going back to the name of your your your show every week. ⁓ so ⁓
Novaczar: Right our love Right makes me so happy when I hear about Lempicka Yeah, sorry Yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): We st I think that's how we I started following you was from was from that. But I think I had first reached out to you. I'm sure that you posted something and probably one of those like a vulnerable story or something and and I I responded 'cause I'm like I was just so compelled and felt drawn to do that. And so I think, yeah, there's so much there's so much beauty in that just in connection.
Novaczar: Yeah Yeah. Yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): And I think like just to tangent for a second, like, you know, people sort of diss all over social media a lot because of they think like people are not connected like it's it's getting rid of connection or people aren't connected to each other because of social media. But I'm like, I have so many connections literally in my life because of so social media that I wouldn't have otherwise. ⁓ of them are because of Lempicka as well, but like it's but it but I yeah. I'm I'm doing social media, right? Is it ⁓
Novaczar: Mmm. because you're using it. Because you're using it correctly, you know, like Yes, yes, like some of these people are their head is somewhere completely different You know and they're judging for the wrong reasons or they're looking at things for the wrong reasons Like, you know, but that's with anything it could be you know a blessing or a curse, but I think it's beautiful
Ciara Gogan (she/her): ⁓ good. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I think so too. And I think that there's I think that is a also for me personally, like has given me confidence around more in person stuff as well. Not that I was like I mean, I'm an introvert, right? So I like I'm very comfortable when I'm in like a one on one or one on a couple setting with any you know, with people that I, you know, that I can have a conversation with. But stick me in a room of you know, twenty or more people and I'm just like, you know, I'm I'm th I'm i I'm in it. I'm there, but I'm not
Novaczar: Mmm. Totally.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): ⁓ as ac as like i ⁓ actively involved, maybe, should we say, you know.
Novaczar: Yeah, no, I have the same issue. Like, believe it or not, like, I mean, you've now met me twice in person ⁓ at like Lempicka related events. And like when I'm Noah, like I get like social anxiety and I'm, but when I'm Nova, like it's different because I'm the center of attention, you know, and I have to kind of push people away from me it gets annoying sometimes. But when I'm Noah, like I definitely become a little more like intrusive.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Right. Right.
Novaczar: And I get a little, way more in my head than I do when I'm Nova. And so that's why Nova's like a nice escape. But I can definitely relate to that, for sure. But it's also like a social exercise, ⁓ put yourself out there. And ⁓ there's a healing part of that, if you struggle with that. So putting yourself through the thing that you don't find comfortable.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's so interesting that you were saying that though when you're like when you're NOAA, like you don't because you're the center of attention. Like if I'm in a situ I mean my work is sort of in diversity, equity, and inclusion and you know, so I do some, you know, speaking and some like workshops and things like that. So if I'm in a situation like that where I'm there to present on something and I'm in a room full of like it could be hundreds of people, it doesn't matter. I'm
Novaczar: you Thank
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Hundred percent fine. I don't have that s that, you know, fear of speaking that some people f fear of public speaking that some people have. But like if you plop me into a room full of strangers and say, network and meet people, I'm just like, ⁓ God, no. Like you know?
Novaczar: Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah, and it's interesting I a lot of my drag sisters that I'm actual that I am cool with Because I'm not cool with a lot of them But some of them the the relationships that I actually do hold very dear to me We oftentimes we talk about how much of a can I cuss on this podcast? Is that okay? Great how much of a mind fuck? me make sure I really emphasize that F and the K mind fuck it is to be in drag and be ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): ⁓ absolutely. Yes, of course.
Novaczar: swooned over and people literally losing their minds and then the minute you get out of drag, it's like you don't even exist. It is wild and it's very difficult to deal with and I'm sure like, you know, for example, like, you like our lovely Eden Espinosa, like or or Julia Murney or Stephanie J Block any of the women who've ever played Elphaba, you know, can really understand that to a certain degree. ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Well Yeah.
Novaczar: You know, like you were just Elphaba and then you come out of the stage door and they might not even recognize that you were just Elphaba. It's kind of that idea. And it can be really, sometimes it's like, God because I really don't want anybody to like know who I am. But in terms of like even dating, like I get so much attention when I'm in drag. And then when I take the drag off, it's like nobody's interested. And I'm all of sudden, ⁓ sadly feel like
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm.
Novaczar: the ugliest person in the room or like the ugly duckling or like the black swan, you know, it's really weird, that unfortunately comes with the armor, you know, and comes with the title of a queen, you know, and some queens have it worse than others, you know, but that's just some real shit for you.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Ugh, no. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Well that sucks. Yeah. I ⁓ I was down in Florida in Key West and we went to a drag show and like they were just it was they were s it was just so fun. Like the they were so good. The Queens were so good and it was just really and there was one particular person who I was like super drawn to. ⁓ but I made a point of
Novaczar: Tell me about it. Hmm. Mm.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): I say I made a point. I didn't actually do it consciously, but as you're saying we as you were saying what you were saying, I was remembering about this, like they were out of drag, I saw them, you know, when they were leaving the club and I made a point to go up and say, like th you know, thank you for everything you were doing. I wasn't thinking about it from the perspective of what you were just saying, that like when you're in drag you're you know, the like the center of everything and then when you're out you're you know, you're not. But ⁓
Novaczar: Yeah Yes Yes, yes, yes that is amazing Please keep going with that because that is such a ⁓ rarity people don't see us as human beings people don't see us as real people, you know and
Ciara Gogan (she/her): To me it's the same person, right? I guess that's what I'm trying to say. Like I recognize the humanity of the human person that's in the drag, right? Maybe that's yeah. Yeah. Mm.
Novaczar: You know, I will say like I've done a way better job nowadays that I'm a little older than I used to because I used to take it so personally, but now I've a better job of going out as Noah, you know, and people do know me as Noah versus Nova. And it's kind of like healed some of that. And like there was a long time where ⁓ I even care about what Noah looked like out of drag. You know, I wouldn't buy clothing for Noah or care about how
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm-hmm. Wow.
Novaczar: My hair looked or anything like that. It was always Nova, Nova, Nova. And so it's, at least for me, very important to have a very clear separation. Nova is over there and when Nova is not here, it is Noah. And when it's Noah, Novaczar's in planet Exotica ruling over, you know, the galaxy. Like that's what she's doing and she's not here right now. You know, and I don't want to talk about drag, you know? And I have other interests outside of drag that I have to remember.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Right. Yeah.
Novaczar: to tap into so that I keep that separation separate, for lack of better words. ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's so interesting. Okay. Yeah. This is awesome. I love it. speaking of other interests, so one of your other interests obviously is Broadway shows or theatre. I shouldn't say just Broadway, but theatre, right? I mean theatre. Theater, darling. What are you seeing tonight? I think I know. Hang on. Okay. Yes, yes, yes. I think so. Mm-hmm.
Novaczar: Yeah. Theater, theatre. I'm literally seeing a show tonight. Giulia Yes. I think that's how you pronounce it. Yeah. The poison queen of whatever. Yeah. She's like belting and makes a poison to kill her, her abusers. I'm like, perfect. Like sign me up. Yeah. Yeah. It's such a limited run. So I was like, as soon as I could snag a ticket. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's that.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): That looks amazing. Let's go right. Mm. Do you th is it off Broadway?
Novaczar: P? P-P-P-Pack? think it's like something like that. It's yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Okay. Where cats was, right? Is that where cats? Yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah. ⁓ do you think it'll transfer? It looks amazing.
Novaczar: ⁓ I don't know. It's, hard because I feel like it's, one of those like Lempicka things where like, you know, it's ⁓ center of the stories of woman, you know what I mean? And yeah, exactly. So I don't, I hate to say like that, but I, in my world, totally, it should be on Broadway right now. But I don't know. I, but I do think like shows like that, it's smart to start off Broadway, which is something I think Lempicka should have done to be honest, but.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah, God forbid, right? Yeah. Right. Yeah. Mm. Okay. Right. Exactly. Yeah.
Novaczar: I'm not a producer, what do I know?
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Lempicka, I miss it so much. I know. I'm so peop people are so sick of me talking about it. But like I just I just no, I don't care. I actually don't care. We absolutely are. I don't really don't care. Like it changed my life, right? And and I think, you know, as and this is one of the questions I wanted to ask you, right? 'Cause for me, like as a as a as a gay woman, as a queer woman, as a strong, you know, strong willed, strong minded person, female person,
Novaczar: I know, same. Through them. We're keeping her alive. Yeah. Yeah. Same. Yeah. Yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): And and I mentioned, you know, growing up in Ireland when it was a criminal offense to be gay, were so many things ⁓ in that show that spoke to me, like that really, like literally moved me and changed my life. ⁓ just quickly for the audience, Lempicka ⁓ a Broadway musical that had a very short but blazing run, ⁓ two years ago now, about the artist Tamara de Lempicka, who was a bisexual woman. ⁓
Novaczar: Mm-hmm. Mm. you.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): primarily set between the wars, which is when her like she was said the Queen of Art Deco. You know her work, even if you don't know her name. ⁓ and it was about her and her her life. And it was a a f fucking amazing, phenomenally brilliant, transformative, unbelievable show. the critics shit all over it because And then ⁓ for w you know, whatever for whatever reason, ⁓ of the critics, not all, but like it it it it just it anyway, it closed very prematurely.
Novaczar: Yep. Thank Yeah. Thank
Ciara Gogan (she/her): But it literally changed lives, mine included. And so for me it's like it I i there were so many things in it that I could relate to. Like the whole Le Monacle scene, like I didn't have that. Like I didn't have a place to go, right? And th that was one of the reasons why that particular piece of it really resonated with me 'cause it's like, my god, if I'd had that I don't know that my life I mean, it it probably would have been a different life that I had.
Novaczar: Mm-hmm. Mm. Thanks for watching!
Ciara Gogan (she/her): But it would have been just so nice to have that place. And and so certainly for the like the gay guys in Ireland had a pla or at least in Dublin had a place to go. ⁓ for women there wasn't a place to go, and so, or at least not that I'm aware of. Anyway, so for a myriad of reasons, not not least of which is the incredible talent of Matt and Carson who wrote the show and Eden starring as as ⁓ Tamara de Lempicka was like just fucking unbelievably amazing. ⁓ okay, so that's me. ⁓
Novaczar: Yeah. Yeah. you you
Ciara Gogan (she/her): But for you, like wh why did it how what did it do for you? Like how did it change you? Like t tell me. I don't know, we can talk for hours, but you know.
Novaczar: Ugh. How much time do you have now? Um, I know. So the first... trying to think back. So I like love watching and listening to just interviews of powerful leading women talk about their careers and their lives and what they do and what they've done and whatever. ⁓ so Eden was starting to talk about on like different podcasts and things about like Lempicka. And I was like, what the hell is that? Like, like, but, and she, kept coming up in her interviews. And I was like, okay, I must do some research about this because like, ⁓ is it? And I did a little, I did some research on YouTube and all I saw was that like that first, the first images, cause I knew that they had Woman Is out. They had Perfection and they had like another song. I think it was, I Will Paint Her or something like that. There was like three songs that were out. ⁓ And ⁓ La Jolla, yeah. Yeah. And it was like, it's like something sessions and just the image of
Ciara Gogan (she/her): From La Jolla, I think it was yeah, yeah.
Novaczar: Eden in a blonde wig like painting on a canvas and she's belting. I was like, what is this? And when I did research about it, just this idea that this powerful woman who was also queer, who ⁓ in between two worlds of like the love of ⁓ woman, Rafaela, and also like her yearning and longing to paint and to create art and the fact that her art was her will to survive is literally so in line with with how my life has gone. ⁓ And, you know, like in the in scenes where she's like like right before she ⁓ brings Tadeusz and and they escape to Paris, just
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm.
Novaczar: The the strength I'm not leaving here without him like like and The fact that ⁓ we don't until the second act that she we thought this whole time that she was selling her body and how She didn't even want to tell Tadeusz not because she didn't want to unpack that trauma because she was protecting a man of his trauma Talk about fucking strength like you know what I mean, and then he kept
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm-hmm. Right.
Novaczar: Nagging her and nagging her and finally like you know what fine I will tell you what happened and you know what they didn't even touch me because that's how powerful I am as a woman that is so like cut like everything about that Really? I'm sure you can see how passionate I get about this like ⁓ about that makes me so like just like every and my in my soul like light up because
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm-hmm. Mm. Yes.
Novaczar: That was very much my experience. Like I grew up with an alcoholic abusive father and my mom passed away in seventh grade. And so that was my life. And I only had my art. That was the only thing I had to survive. And there were so many times where it just got so rough and so traumatizing and scary. And art was the only thing that I had. it much was, and I was queer, you know? And there were ⁓ where I was...
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm. Mm.
Novaczar: fucking women and fucking men, you know, like just like, just like Tamara, like, you know what I'm saying? And there were so many things that I didn't tell my dad because of the, because of the fear of what he was going to say or do, also knowing the knowing now his alcoholism got worse when my mom died. So ⁓ had to, I innately, I was trying to protect him ⁓ of
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Course, yeah.
Novaczar: shit that was going on because of what he was dealing with, which I feel like is very much in line with what Tamara was probably dealing with as well and like what what she was thinking. So there was just like it was very layered for me. And obviously like the music and like you had you put a woman in the center belting the entire show, which is nothing makes me more happy than seeing a woman belt, especially in a man's face during Speed telling telling him to fuck off. Like that is like my like
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm.
Novaczar: Like kryptonite, like, so it just was so important and fascinating and like just hearing like just the mystery of like how nobody really knew like a lot about her and like the stories that she made up and just the fabulous life of Paris and like how she's like, look at these hands. These hands were once were pretty, you know, and now they're cracked, you know, and I just find that to be so beautiful and inspiring and
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm.
Novaczar: just way that she just kept going because she had to and knowing that she had a child in the room, like a touch of innocence, but like knew ⁓ there was something inside her that could, that had to be released. I think is so fascinating and so interesting and screw those fucking reviewers. The critics don't know what they're talking about ⁓ they're just scared of good art. And so there's my Lempicka.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm-hmm. Hmm. Seriously. Mm.
Novaczar: talk. ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Okay, and we're done. No, out. ⁓ but like, yeah, like all of that. And and and and I think that's what's so fascinating to me about everything that you just said is that like everybody had different response. The people that moved and changed by it were moved and changed by it for different reasons. You know?
Novaczar: Yes, yeah, there's one more thing I have to say and then I'm done, I promise.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Say listen, you can say as much as you like.
Novaczar: Okay, in Speed she says, handsome men never learned how to fight. Always had everything handed to you, but not me. Everything I have, I grabbed with these two hands. Like that is literally everything that I have always felt. I've always felt like these men in my life always had what I never had. Or if I wanted to have what they had, I would have to butch up or I'd have to change.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Hmm. Hmm.
Novaczar: who I am to fit in to get to what they're doing or what they have. And it's like, no, like I'm gonna do what I want, even if it's going against the grain. And I'm going to fight for it because I have to, because that's what lives in me. You know what I'm saying? And like, I'm also gonna belt in your face while I'm letting you know. Like that is so, ⁓ yeah, yeah, okay. Yes, I'm done, okay. it's everything.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Right? This is what's happening. No, I love it. It's no, you don't have to be done. But like but this is the power of art, right? It it's like it it it can it can reflect back to like again, like I said, s and and what this is what's so fascinating to me about this conversation that we're having right now because I've talked to a lot of different people about their sort of experience with Lempicka And for a lot of people it was very similar to mine in some ways, right? It was the you know the queer storyline seeing a strong woman and feeling that way about themselves. But like I think your perspective is just so fascinating to me because it's a little different from what I've heard from other people, but it's so powerful as well. Like it's just
Novaczar: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, like I want I was like I am Tamara like I was like this show was written for me I could play Tamara. this is now the role This is the role. This was written for me. This is something that I can very much into like this. Yeah
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm-hmm. Yeah. But you did I hadn't I don't how I missed this post before and I saw it like probably few weeks ago, I think after we met the first time. That where you dressed as Tamara for one of the shows. Like you were like fully embodied as Tamara for one of those that was amazing.
Novaczar: Yeah, it was. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and that's that's why I love drag. Thank you. That's why I love drag because that's what I've always felt about drag is that this is my opportunity to show the world like and really and to show myself and of course younger Noah like there's a role that I see. ⁓ going to show you that could embody that and like with with like that like Lempicka photo shoot, it wasn't even a question. It was like a download. It was like the universe was like, you're going to do this. It is going to line up. Nothing about it was like difficult. Like I found the dress on AliExpress. And what was wild about that dress is I, when I wore that dress at the first preview, Rafaella wears a dress very similar to the dress that I was wearing in one of the scenes in the show. And it just felt so kismet and like, I had never gone to a first preview like that. I had never done something like that, but it felt like I had to. Like, there's just something in me that was like, you need to do this. of course the praise and everything was just for the cherry on top, but it wasn't for that. was ⁓ something in me was like, I need to do this. Yeah, yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): It was for you. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I I feel like like I wouldn't be we wouldn't be doing this if it wasn't for Lempicka Not you and I having this conversation, but I wouldn't be doing this if it wasn't for Lempicka. Like one of the things that I ended up doing, I think you probably saw, but like, I recorded a video after I saw it the first time 'cause I was like, oh my fucking god, like what just happened? And I need to like I need to say this and I need the people who who did this to hear this, like somehow.
Novaczar: Right. Right, yeah, I know. Yeah! Yeah, yes
Ciara Gogan (she/her): And I don't even know how, like, I sent it, I posted it, and I shared it. And then like I and then I messaged Eden and said, you know, I just made a video about the, you know, the da da. And she's ⁓ my god, did you send it to And like, okay. then, you know, and I I don't even know how she saw that, because I was it would have been stuck on her message requests, but whatever, somehow she saw it. and shared it and and whatever. And that's not it wasn't important for her to share it necessarily. It was just it was important that
Novaczar: Yeah, right.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): they saw it. Like that everybody that was in the show saw it. That the the I I I just I needed them to hear that message, right? That was like so. But that but my doing that video, like I am not a person who is comfortable being on video other than like in like a work corporate work setting like on a Zoom call, right? But I'm this is this wasn't wasn't me. Like this, you know? ⁓ you know
Novaczar: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It was a spiritual like shift for for people like us. Yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): It was r it was s it was really seismic. It was. And for so many people. And so I think that even though it had a short run its first Broadway run, it was a seismic impact in s on so many people.
Novaczar: that impact. And it was like, if you got it, you've got it. And like, and that's also what's so interesting, because I think a lot of the art, not I don't think I know a lot of the art that I'm into, and that I choose to put out into the world is so niche. And like, Lempicak is niche, obviously. And, you it's interesting, like in my career, you know, I've been on television, and I've worked for Virgin Voyages and shit.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah.
Novaczar: ⁓ And also did musical theatre like was always told that you have all the chops to be commercially successful ⁓ ⁓ great. But that is just that I just don't feel comfortable doing anything that and so I'm grateful that I've created a career know that I'm this niche, know artist And yes, like of course there are so many times where I'm doing my little Duplex show even. And I'm like, ⁓ like, you know, I should be doing something bigger or something better, but it's like, I would have to compromise a part of myself to do that. And that's just, I'm just not interested in that. And I feel like that's very in line with Lempicka. Like I feel like Lempicka could have done this or done that or had a different name that people could understand more or the marketing or whatever. But no, Lempicka did what Lempicka needed to do.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Right.
Novaczar: in order to give the truth and authenticity of what the story called for and everybody involved in it, think, approached it from that perspective. And I think that is the beauty of all of that and why it's like lasted so long and touched the people that it needed to. Does that make sense?
Ciara Gogan (she/her): a hundred percent. Yeah. And it's like, I mean, my so my wife and I Tamara Lempicak's work has been in our lives since we've been together. Like we've known about her for a very long time. Like nothing original th you know, ⁓ I right? But ⁓ I have that kind of money. But we have prints of hers like one of Yeah, I know, right? Like one of the f one of the first prints I ever bought and one of the first gifts I ever bought my wife was a print of the and the Green Bugatti. Like that's
Novaczar: Thank ⁓ that's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Right. They're so expensive. ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): That's and it's literally been in our home for like, you know, twenty years. Like so so when I saw that there was gonna be a musical about her, I'm like, my god, we have to go they're they're making a musical about Tamara de Lempicka we have to go. But ⁓ but I know that I'm in the minority ⁓ the people who are like, I I knew who this is and you know. Right? Exactly. Although I actually I mis I mispronounced it in my video. I watched it recently and I'm like, my god, did I really do that? But whatever. Anyway. ⁓
Novaczar: I love that. That's so cool. Right, right. Nobody even know how to pronounce it. Like, you know, but that's why like ⁓ Yeah. But that's why every week at my, yeah, like at my Duplex show, as you mentioned, I always do, I always open with like a snippet from Lempicka. And then in the middle, I do plan And Design And then at the end, I always end with Unseen And right when I do Plan And Design I'm like, does anybody know Lempicka? And, you know, I always explain how It took them like 14 years to bring it to Broadway and it was on Broadway for one month and I was like that's commercialism and capitalism at its finest and it's ruining Broadway. And I go on a little tangent about it and then I explain the story to keep it alive and to show people like how important this is. And like if you're here to see me like this is the kind of shit you're gonna get. You know what I'm saying? So.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's it's just so it's so ⁓ it's such an important show. And, you know, I don't think it's done. I don't know what's next, but
Novaczar: Yeah. It's not done and a part of me feels like it to say this, but like was it ahead of its time? Like it's weird to say that, but like.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): It w No, I know. people have said like even if it was this season it would have been different. Or even if it was ⁓ like I think in some ways it was of its time, in some ways it was right on time. ⁓ yeah. In twenty twenty yeah, you know. Right. Did really well. Yeah. Maybe.
Novaczar: Sure. Yeah, right, right in 2026 in July Like so weird, but I mean obviously it's in Korea right now and it's thriving, you know It just was maybe in the wrong place ⁓ So God bless
Ciara Gogan (she/her): I think ⁓ yeah, I know, right? But I ⁓ but I think I don't think it's done and I think so like Eden has talked about wanting to d wanting to direct like her version, which that needs to happen. Like, I'm sorry.
Novaczar: Right, ah Immediately Eden get on that go to your Shakespeare Okay, and then come back and give us Lempicka and let me audition. Okay. Oh my god I'll do anything you say like literally trust her with my life
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Right. And then come back. Let's go. Right? I know. Yeah. that needs to exist.
Novaczar: Yeah, I also think what's interesting about that show is like relationships that I've been able to create with with Carson and with Matt and with Eden and with Rachel like and and Cody the stage manager ⁓ I've like ⁓ Going to like little Noah if little Noah knew like that I'd just be DMing Eden like And I DM Matt sometimes and Carson's asking me for the photo that we took at Eden's concert. What? That's so crazy. it all is in line with the right people working on a piece of art like Lempicka. And I think it takes all those like-minded people to bring something like that to fruition. ⁓ So I just feel blessed to have been to.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Novaczar: you know, be in their orbit.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Right, same, a hundred percent. And I also think like that same thing about like just people lining up or like the or the right people finding each other, or even just I even know where I was going with this. I think just like even like outside of the art world, it's it's there's there's things will happen in your life that are just meant to happen, right? And I think like those those connections, like having I think that
Novaczar: Good. ⁓ Yeah, yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Like those types of connections just come from a genuine place of like, I really care about this, whatever it might be, and this is my whole heart about it. And and like people will see that and recognize it and and appreciate that, I hope. Right? Like I think that's just what happens in life. If if you're i but I think you have to be well, this is what I was trying to say. Sorry, I forgot my train of thought there for a second. You have to be open to it, right? You like you're you have to be open to the experience.
Novaczar: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah No, it's okay
Ciara Gogan (she/her): something like that happening. And I think that's part of what Lempicka did for me, honestly, was just open me back up out of I had been in this sort of numb place that I didn't really know that I was in until that night, the first night that I saw the show. And that in t it just blew me out of this complete numbness, but also opened me up to experiences and conversations that I just never have even thought about before. Or even like they wouldn't have even it wouldn't have crossed my mind because
Novaczar: . Wow.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): it it just wasn't in my sphere in any way, shape or form, if you know what mean.
Novaczar: Yeah, that's so beautiful. I mean even this podcast like you wouldn't have started it if it wasn't for Lempicka So that's I think that's really really beautiful and I'm happy for you. That's so awesome. You deserve it
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Seriously. Nope. Nope. Yeah. Thank you. And yay. And I'm loving it. Like I just I love I I'm just enjoying it s so much. I just love having these conversations. ⁓ in you know, and wherever they go, right? It doesn't even you know, yeah. Right?
Novaczar: Good. I love that. Yeah, it's okay. You're just putting it out there and that's and the people that need to see it or or, you know, have the same experience as you will and that you never know like how that could change somebody's life, you know.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah, totally. one of the questions I was curious about, because I think there was, you know, like you're probably of all the people that I have sort of lined up or have said yes to doing this, you're the youngest you just turned thirty, right? Yay! Happy birthday. I know, right? But like and and I think ⁓ is it a new chapter, right? A new decade is definitely a new chapter.
Novaczar: Sure did yeah girl. Yes. Thank you wild I know New chapter Yeah, it feels that way. Yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): And I think like I think you are, you know, like I said before, er you know, open about your growth, open about the you know, some of the lessons that you're you're learning. What's a lesson that you think you're still learning?
Novaczar: Yeah. Hmm I'm so in my head like the freaking time and it's debilitating and it's clear to people and I'm learning at attempting trying to tell myself that relax and Learning how to I love when Eden discussed ⁓ like regulating your nervous system when dealing with traumatic situations or things that might trigger you. I think that that's another lesson that I'm learning, like how to regulate my nervous system when I get triggered by things, because I have a lot of triggers. ⁓ And to ⁓ and start to get out of here, because this is like literally like my worst enemy. And I think for so long, it just ruled.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Uh-huh.
Novaczar: the way that I viewed the world and the way that I view relationships and the way that I carry myself. And I think it's high time that we stop doing that. ⁓ So I'm learning to try and name that inner saboteur ⁓ like when it pops up and when it's so loud, a from Lempicka, like, my God, the voices get loud in stillness, which RIP should have been in the show.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Yeah. Ha ha ha.
Novaczar: ⁓ I feel that so heavily like because they do get so loud and to remember that don't need to let let that control your reality and sometimes you know if your intuition might be telling you something but if it's happening all the time then like You know, it's important to try and work work on that and work through it and I'm hoping that eventually specifically in my 30s that I can silence that voice a little bit and kind of live more in the moment.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Think what's interesting about that, like so the inner saboteur, ⁓ think the trick, the key to unlocking that whole thing is understanding the difference, recognizing the difference between your inner saboteur and your intuition. Right? Because they're not the same thing, right? You know, they're not the same thing. And like one of the ways that I had learned or you know, sort of ⁓
Novaczar: Mm-hmm. Yeah, right, right. That's exactly it. Yeah
Ciara Gogan (she/her): I don't want to say learned 'cause I'm not complete it's not completely it's never, you know, completely away, right? But one of the things that I learned is that your your inner your inner saboteur or your inner critic tends to be very like yes or no, like black or white. It's very binary.
Novaczar: Yeah Yeah
Ciara Gogan (she/her): And your and your intuition or your curiosity is or your intuition is more curiosity based, right? It might be like, you know, ⁓ like why am I feeling this way as opposed to like nope, I'm not doing it because that's just you know what I mean? And so there's a balance there. Right.
Novaczar: Yeah. Yeah, like having that wall there. and I also have been learning like go before you're ready. Like and that's that's something that they tell you in theatre When I was in high school that was one of the things I took away from one of my theatre classes was go before you're ready. And and that I think also kind of goes into getting out of your head.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): ⁓ yeah. Yeah.
Novaczar: and like just jumping in, even when you don't feel like you can or you should or whatever, or then that's when you start to spiral in your mind. And I think having that as like a motto has helped me a lot. And yeah, so that's kind of, and just remembering like going back to my roots and like what makes me happy, I think is important as well.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Right. But Go Before You're Ready is so like again, this podcast wouldn't exist without Go Before You're Ready. you have to you have to do it despite the fear, because the fear is never gonna be completely gone. ⁓
Novaczar: Exactly, exactly. Right. And, so ⁓ my therapist recently told me, she was like, don't catastrophize things.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): I mean maybe it will for some people, but for a lot of us, right? It's like you gotta like what would you do though you're afraid, as opposed to like what would you do if you weren't afraid, right?
Novaczar: And that was the first time I've ever heard that word (catastrophizing). And now I'm obsessed because I'm like, damn girl, read me, read me right now, like a book. Cause like that is something that I ⁓ a lot and have basically my whole life, you know? And so learning learning when I catching myself, when I do that and being like, is this something you need to catastrophize right now? Or is this a moment where you can take a step back, look at it and be like, okay.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Yeah. Right.
Novaczar: I'm overreacting, I'm doing the most, I'm catastrophizing the situation and I'm spinning it into something that really doesn't need to be. taking a stand that's I feel like obviously comes with age and growing older and whatever they say. But that's another huge lesson that I've been recently trying to like tackle, you know?
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Right. Yeah. Yeah. But I think that's catastrophizing too goes back to in some ways the inner inner saboteur or the inner critic. It's like it's it's like it's again, sort of black or white, like yes or no. It's like, ⁓ yes, this th this is gonna happen, right? Th like it's very definitively like negative in that way, and that's a particular sense, as opposed to but you're like, No, hang on, like let me sit back and think about this. Is that actually gonna happen? Like what what are the different scenarios? Like that's your that's your conscious thinking, right? That's
Novaczar: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're right.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): that's the difference. So I think when you I think, you know, for for a lot of people, the inner critic, they think it's their intuition. They think it's their instinct talking to them. But it's really not. It's something else that's holding and it's something that we, you know, we needed in like when we were living in caves, right? It's like that sort of fight, flight, you know, whatever, like that type of situation. But, you know,
Novaczar: Yeah. ⁓ Yeah, right Right Yeah, yeah, but not every situation needs that
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Not every situation needs that. Yeah. I mean if you're in a dark alley and you hear a noise like in a you know, in a in a garbage can, like, yeah, get the hell out of there. But if you're like just, you know, we're having this conversation and something triggers you and you're like, Ugh and then you're like, ⁓ hang on, like let's just take a take a beat, you know, can you? ⁓
Novaczar: Yeah. Yeah. Right. And also like realizing when that inner sabatuer starts to create fog and then trying to allow it to dissipate before you act on like whatever you're feeling I think is huge lesson I'm learning right now.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Uh-huh. Right, exactly. Yeah, take a minute. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, ⁓ no, absolutely. I think that's really smart.
Novaczar: this goes back to, mean, anybody who was going to listen to this, who might know me from, you know, my, my career or whatever, like, ⁓ I think important to, to express like that these are things that every human being deals with, even me, you know what I'm saying? So, it's, you're, you're alone. And I think that is sometimes like those feelings make you feel very alone and just knowing that other people deal with it too, can be comforting sometimes. So.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah, absolutely. Right. Right e again, why why I'm having these conversations. 'Cause I want people to know that they're not alone. That like the the the shit that, you know, you're dealing with, that I'm dealing with at, you know, fifty eight seven right now, fifty eight in a couple of months, like like some of this shit just doesn't gets better. Absolutely gets better with age and with, you know, certainly, you know, you've mentioned therapy, like I've never
Novaczar: Yeah. Right. Right. you.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): like seriously had therapy. I've had a little bit, but not really. a lot. And so like something probably should do, ⁓ But anyway listen, I think everybody does right too. I don't disagree. But I think yeah. But I think like the point is that everybody's dealing with something. Like a and we all have shit that's going on. We all have, you know, s ⁓ stuff that kind of circles back on us or whatever it might be. And how do we allow ourselves the grace to be like, hey
Novaczar: I think everybody needs a therapist. Especially nowadays. Yeah. you
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Okay, this is like hu this is a human reaction. This is not, you know, this is human nature. Like this is what happens in life. and I want people to know that, that that's ⁓ having these experiences. No matter how put together you think they are. And and the people that you think are not put together at all are got their shit together in their heads, you know what I mean? Like everybody's got we all have stuff. ⁓ Right. Yeah.
Novaczar: Right. Yeah. Right. Right. Right there they hide it they hide it better than we do. Yeah, which is like so real, know, I don't know I just find it I just find realness to be so compelling like So, I don't know. Yeah
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Right. Absolutely. A hundred percent. Yeah. I like this question. it's a bit what quietly or not so quietly breaks you?
Novaczar: you Like there's so many things um, no, it's okay. It's okay. I'm trying to narrow it down. I guess When people like come for my character I Think that that really I have a hard time dealing with that. I also think because
Ciara Gogan (she/her): I'm sorry. There's probably two yeah. Yeah. Mm.
Novaczar: Because I put myself out there so openly, ⁓ mentioned, it kind of invites an audience, good bad. ⁓ And what also learning right now is to ⁓ not, so long, ⁓ I when those things happen or when people would say things, especially when cancel culture became really, really big. which I've been a victim to multiple times or people attempting to in different forms. not letting kinds narratives that people and put on you make you question like your own integrity. ⁓ And reminding myself that
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Novaczar: know who I am, I know my intentions, I know what I'm doing, I know that I'm not hurting anybody or doing anything truly wrong and if you're perceiving it that way, you know what I'm saying, and not giving me the opportunity to or have a conversation or whatever and just writing me off and then, you know, go, especially in my career, spreading this narrative to other people that I don't even know that when they meet me now that they're meeting me with this preconceived notion based on what you've created. I really hate that. I don't think that's fair. But it also is like, well, then those people on both ends are not supposed to be in my life. And think for a long time, I was very nervous that that was going to take away ability to share my art and take away my ability to work.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah.
Novaczar: Recently like I've been like baby. I'm 30. Okay, I like I have been told and I've People have said the worst of the worst of the worst possible things you can say to somebody unfortunately and I've been living in New York City since the end of 2018 and if anything bad like that was going to happen and would have happened by now and I'm doing way better and way more aware of how I come across and I'm in therapy and I'm way more smart about how I navigate the world now than I ever was. So it's like time to let go of that level of trauma or try and heal from it. ⁓ So yeah, yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm-hmm. Right. I love that. And yeah, being like being solid in your own foundation, your own core of like I know who I am and I know what my intentions are. ⁓ and so like having that solid foundation is so important. Yeah.
Novaczar: Yeah Yeah. Yeah, because people will do anything they can to try and break you and and and especially like in nightlife and that's why like getting away was so important and I feel so much better. ⁓ know, but literally that was it. I was out of the city for like basically three days and and I came back feeling like a fresh as a daisy. So
Ciara Gogan (she/her): People will. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ it was just one weekend away, right? It wasn't even like a long stretch, like literally one weekend away. Yeah. Awesome. I love it.
Novaczar: and ready to tackle it all again. But it just reminds me, OK, I love New York, but getting away is necessary. And it's OK. It will be here. It's not going anywhere. So yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ correct. Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Okay. I mean not that that I don't love that all that those experiences happen to you, but I love that, you know, that sort of realization or perspective at the end. And like not everybody that's in your life wants the best for you. And and understanding, right? Like who yeah. Yeah.
Novaczar: Yeah Honey, that is very much something I am learning right now. And really being honest with myself and honest with those types of people, you know, that's very much something that I've been trying to deal with is, and also like not getting upset when people consistently show you who they are and then reminding myself, all right, well, if you're always around them and they're always doing the same thing and this always pisses you off.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yep. And being able to let it go. Let them go. Right. It's yeah. Mm-hmm.
Novaczar: Like at some point you kind of just have to accept that's who they are and don't let it piss you off anymore, you know? Because if you've tried to talk them and you tried to change them or whatever and they won't, well that's not on you anymore and it's only damaging you, not them. So change your perspective.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Right. Right, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Or change your company, you know? Like it's a new environment Right. I mean no, sometimes you can't, absolutely. But I think yeah, right. Like you like your like yeah, there are gonna be people who are in your life that don't want the best for you. And if you can if you can you when you start to grow ⁓
Novaczar: Right? Or your environment, you know? And sometimes you can't. But of course, if you can, then, you know, don't be stupid. Right.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): you will lose people. Like when you you know, it happens and and I think and you have to be able to let that go. Or l or like you said, change your perspective. Exactly. Yeah.
Novaczar: Yeah and being yeah and being okay with that yeah and like I just this I call them downloads as I woo-woo spiritual bitch over here ⁓ you're here for a season I'm here for a lifetime that's I feel like that needs to be tattooed somewhere on my body like as a reminder you know like
Ciara Gogan (she/her): He Right. Yep. Right.
Novaczar: Like people always say people are here for a season, reason or a lifetime. It's like, no, you're here for a lifetime. And those people are here only sometimes only for a season. And I think when you kind of really think about that, hopefully it can be helpful to people.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Hundred percent. Right. Yeah. And you're you are your own longest relationship.
Novaczar: Right and like when you close your eyes, it's just you Even if there's somebody next to you that you sleep with that you've been with for how many years when you close your eyes Baby, and you're it's just you if that's all this, you know So yeah
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Uhhuh. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. All right. Okay. So the last thing that I want to ask you is, is there anything that we didn't talk about that you wanted me to ask you or anything else that you would like to leave us with?
Novaczar: Wow. So I am on this journey of wanting to do theatre. And I did musical theatre ⁓ a very young age and community theatre and then went to an art high school for musical theatre, went to college musical theatre. And the reason I stopped was because, as I mentioned, like always was I'm a leading lady. And everybody was like, no, you're not. And now I because I've been doing drag for so long which I still ⁓ Drag is not going anywhere. And I see so much theatre. Every time I see theatre, I I know there's just like a piece ⁓ soul that seems to just be missing. I'm theatre. And I'm at this point where I'm like, I don't even care if I get paid for it. ⁓ I recently looking up community theaters in Brooklyn. that are doing a production of Fun Home, like in the beginning of a year. And I'm like, I don't give a fuck. Like I'm gonna audition for it. if I don't get cast, just a callback would be so validating. Like just something to do outside of nightlife because it can really be soul sucking. And I'm grateful for the opportunities that I have. ⁓ And can't see myself not working in nightlife as of right now, but I don't necessarily ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah.
Novaczar: like want to be working as an actor on a commercial level unless it's really aligned. I think I just need to have that outlet of theatre, but in a way where I'm still comfortable in terms of being a non-binary performer and actor and the way that I have always viewed theatre, I think now that I have drag so secured and so locked in, there's a part of me that's like, okay, going to an audition and wanting to be Allison in Fun Home could actually be a possibility. And even if it doesn't happen, you're not losing anything because you still have drag so secure. And so that's something that I'm just manifesting and wanting to try and make happen because I know that that would make me really happy. And just finding that sense of community again. And like even working as an usher, like I don't care. Like I just wanna be around normal people.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Love that.
Novaczar: who are putting on theatre and just what I need. And if day I wanna own a theatre company, that would be cool. But I don't know, I gotta start somewhere. So that's kind of what I'm trying to manifest for myself right now. Yeah, ⁓ right, Yeah, knows? ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Awesome. All right. We'll put it out into the world and see what happens, right? Yeah. I love that. I think it's you know, I mean we have to have we have to, but it's nice to have dreams. It's nice to have something you working towards. It's nice to have something that scares the shit out of you that you wanna do, you know. Yes.
Novaczar: Yeah, it gives you purpose because for a while, like I was losing it. was when I was like calling for, you know, my story about, I'm struggling or whatever. It's because I felt like I had no purpose anymore, you know? And that's scary to be. so like, you know, I'm like, I need to find again theatre always made me feel so fulfilled. So yeah, that's the energy. Yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Love it. Love it. Love it. Love it. All right. We're we're we're putting the energy out there. Awesome. All right. thank you so much for doing this. This was so much fun. I know, me too. It's like it's been such a niche a niche conversation. I love it though. ⁓
Novaczar: Yes. ⁓ my god, of course! I had a great time! Thanks for... you asked great questions! I love it! I'm obsessed! It's my favorite thing to do! Like, let's get into it! Yeah!
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Absolutely again, thank you for doing this. Thank you for being here, thank you for your your openness and vulnerability and honesty. And and I think like there's definitely some stuff that we've talked about that, you know, will help folks out there, which is the whole point of this ⁓ this podcast. So and thank you everybody for tuning in. ⁓ we'll see you on the other side.
Novaczar: Party.
Novaczar: Thank you ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): And so I'm just really grateful to my guests for being open to sharing their experiences with me and with all of you. so here's a little bit about about my guest today, Novaczar, Empress of the Galaxy, best name ever. Okay, so Novaczar is a full-time drag artist in New York City. Previous credits and accomplishments include being a contestant on Queen of the Universe, season one on Paramount Plus, Get Out Magazine's 2025 Entertainer of the Year. That's pretty cool.
Novaczar: Thank Thank
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Virgin Voyages Diva Swing and currently has a weekly residence residency solo show titled Unseen A Cabaret of Love, Hope, and Survival. I know where that name came from. Novaczar We'll get we'll get there. It's every Wednesday at the Duplex in the heart of West Village. it's been running for two years now. Nova also works at Rise Bar in Hell's Kitchen every Friday and Saturday at 11 p.m. where I am firmly tucked away asleep. ⁓
Novaczar: ⁓ you ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): and Nova combines her love of all things musical theatre with abstract artistic references such as Lee Bowery, Boy George, and the eccentric fashions of the 80s. By the way, the 80s was my era, like so I'm very aware of the eccentric fashions. Nova's voice, artistry, and perspective on drag is truly one a kind. Thank you so much for being here for saying yes when I asked you to do this.
Novaczar: ⁓ my god, it's an honor. Thank you for having me. I'm excited.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Absolutely. I mean, I'm just like, I don't know. I've asked like so many people, different people, and like almost everybody has said yes. this is so bizarre to me. I'm like, why? But okay, I love I love it. I love it. I love it. ⁓ I don't know. Thank you. I appreciate that. ⁓ So the I'm asking, sort of starting asking all my guests, is who is Noah? And I so for you I have like who is Noah slash Novaczar?
Novaczar: Because you're cool! Like, why not? Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): So the question is really like not what you do but who you are. But I but I'm wondering in some in in for you, maybe like Novaczar is what you do and who you are. If that makes sense.
Novaczar: Yeah. Hmm Yeah, ⁓ I mean the first thing that popped into my head when you said who am I I feel like I'm an alien living a human experience You know, know like we're living in a world right now where like disclosure seems to be like the hot topic specifically on the news but I Think that I'm just wild crazy eccentric artist feels everything very very deeply ⁓ and like and goes hand-in-hand with Noah and and Nova ⁓ and like when comes to my Drag persona Novaczar the Empress of the Galaxy as I call myself I think that Nova is of Noah blown up on like a, what's the word? Like a billboard. And for everybody to see and is polished and very put together and in ways way more grounded and way more unapologetic than Noah is, which is interesting when ⁓ kind of thinking about like who are you as a human being and then like, you're able to step into this persona every week, multiple times a week, and all the kind of insecurities and things that you feel as a human being are kind of washed away because you can put them aside for a second and let this kind of armor and kind of like superhero cape almost take over. so that's, guess, the answer that I have for you right now. ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): that. But that's really cool and and that's really interesting to me 'cause I know like different like I've I've had sort of side conversations with with actors who have said, you know, Like I remember I having this conversation with this one person just through text and I was saying, like ha like I could never do the things that that you did as that person, right? As that act as that character. And they said like that but that's the thing, like you're sort of stepping out of like you're stepping into their bravery almost, or you're stepping into their whatever it might be, right? yeah. And I think in this case it was kind of a bravery thing. And so that's sort of what that sounds a little bit like to me, that you're like you're able to
Novaczar: Thank Mm. Yeah. Yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Like Novaczar is the armor, but is also very much you.
Novaczar: Yeah, I always say that, like, ⁓ you're a drag queen, at for me, especially because I did musical theatre for so many years and I am trained, it's like a never-ending character study. And I'm always finding out new things about Nova. And the nice thing about being a drag artist is that there's not a director or producer or anybody telling me that I can't do something or I need to pull back or I need to, ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm.
Novaczar: Shipped in any way because you know of it doesn't follow this like storyline. I'm creating the storyline I'm creating the narrative. I'm creating what Nova is feeling in that moment depending on what I'm feeling that day depending on what Noah is feeling that day, know and like what I've when I Prepare my materials and when I prepare my looks even it stems from what it could have Noah feeling in that moment and what do I need to do to one make sure that I
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Right.
Novaczar: can tap into Nobizar's energy, but then also make sure that it's still authentic and real and honest, which is always like goes in line with like what acting is all about, the truth and finding the honesty. So it's quite interesting.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm-hmm. Right. That's really cool. I love that. And I wonder, like, I obviously I don't know if all drag artists feel the same way, but like I f I I've always looked at drag as putting on like a person like putting on somebody else. Especially I suppose I suppose maybe you know, the drag artists that like do impersonations. Like if somebody's doing Judy Garland, like they are they are embodying that person, right? But your your art is like you are Novaczar and you are Noah and you are the art.
Novaczar: Yeah. Of course. ⁓ Yes, yeah, and like, you know, first of all, I think a big misconception about drag is that like, it's, ⁓ it's like so showy and like, you know, you're, everybody has their own persona, which is who does drag, they do it in their own different way. And that's what makes it so beautiful. You know I'm saying? There are no limitations, despite what you might see on television or what you might hear. You I'm saying? In society, ⁓ I've used drag as a way to ⁓ step into the leading lady fantasies that I've always wanted to live out when I was like that little gay boy living in Virginia Beach. You know what I'm saying? And doing theatre and community theatre and having like men empowered that were often times the directors, rarely were there any female directors or any females that were in charge, you know, that were telling me like, you will not play a leading lady. You are not a woman. You don't know what it's like to live a female experience.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Right.
Novaczar: So you need to butch it up and in a way like being able to kind of heal from that is why I have my drag persona. You know what I'm saying? And so I'm able to show little Noah like, no, you can be whatever you want. You know what I'm saying? And you can play Diana at Next to Normal if that is what you want to do. You know I'm saying? And you don't have to...
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right.
Novaczar: You don't have to follow any sort of rules ⁓ because they're meant to be broken in my mind.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Absolutely. And I think like honestly for somebody in theatre to be saying that, like like if if I know theatre didn't start with Shakespeare, but like in you know, the Greek the Greek tradition and then in Shakespeare, like, all the parts were played by men. I mean, hello all the time.
Novaczar: Right. Exactly, exactly men played women Yeah, yeah because women were not allowed to be on stage and they were not allowed to express themselves in the way that they should and I we've always wanted to you know what I'm saying It's ⁓ wild the way the society works when they try and dictate art and what it should and shouldn't be Yeah, ⁓ so for me, it's not about like ⁓ I'm putting something on to me. It's more like I'm enhancing what's already in me ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): I know. Yeah. Right.
Novaczar: It's interesting like I could feel physically ill my will hurt or my mind will be like in a whole nother place and then as soon as no like I put on the drag it's like Nova takes over but not in a way of like now I'm Novaczar, it's like ⁓ my energy has been my frequency has lifted You know, I've I'm heightened. I feel like a heightened version of myself And it's almost like Nova is here to pick up Noah in a very beautiful way, which kind of makes me emotional when I think about it. Yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm-hmm. I love that. Yeah. Well that's fine. I mean, it's but to have that outlet is like and I don't I'm not obviously diminishing it to just an outlet, but to have that ability or have that place to go and to put yourself a in a place of confidence 'cause I feel like I know for me, you know, ⁓ I first of all growing up I grew up in Ireland, ⁓ at a time when it was literally a criminal offence to be gay and I'm like, that was fun. ⁓
Novaczar: Cool. Yeah. Right.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): And so it was just like there was no escape for me, right? At that. And I don't escape sounds like the wrong it's probably the wrong word, but there was nowhere for me to put my myself and be out in any way, shape, or form. Right? And then to go from, you know, that being the country that I grew up in to like, you know, 30 years later, Ireland was the first country to vote for equal marriage by popular vote, just makes me so happy and proud. Like it's just like it's amazing, right? It just like so it it like changes possible, right? ⁓
Novaczar: Yeah. I love that. Wow! That is amazing. Yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): But it but it also for me sort of it I think about like you having, you know, grown up like you said, Virginia Beach. I know you lost your parents early, and I have a question about that in a second, but like that you then have this ⁓ place to put little Noah and like sort of really blossom into Novaczar like three times a week, at least three times a week, is just a really cool ⁓ way to have outlet, an escape from or a healing from like from, you know, young stuff.
Novaczar: Yeah, and like, don't get me wrong, like there's so many challenges I deal with in drag ⁓ the regular. ⁓ But I think because like I just stepped away this weekend and ⁓ took and ⁓ went Long Island and Fire Island and was actually just Noah for a second, like it kind of brought me back to a place of like, ⁓ yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah.
Novaczar: Like I do love drag and like I do love New York and I do love what I do. But sometimes it's very easy to lose sight of that love when you're doing it as much as I am. ⁓ in New York City, which is one of the hardest cities in the world to live in, but one of the best cities in the world to live in. ⁓ Specifically being an artist. But no, I do feel very privileged grateful to ⁓ have persona and to ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah.
Novaczar: be at a level where I'm getting paid for it and that people often times need ⁓ have do what I'm doing. It seems to be the thing that I lose sight of far too often. ⁓ But ⁓ I know like when I when I've thought about quitting or when I've thought about like
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Hmm.
Novaczar: Oh, like, I don't know if I can do this anymore. And then like somebody ran on me. It's like, no, we need you. we need, like, we look forward to seeing what you're going to do. And that right there is what keeps me going. Like knowing that there's people out there that need to see the art that I'm creating, because that makes me feel like I'm making a difference. And it's not just selfishly for me, it's also for other people as well. Which is what I think is so beautiful about art. Like the way that you can connect in a way that transcends language.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. I think ⁓ you know, that idea of people acknowledging you so important, right? I think like no matter what world or you know, sphere or work or whatever you want to call it you do, like ⁓ that people appreciate what you do is so gratifying, ⁓ and important. ⁓ And think like so often we don't like we don't tell people in our lives
Novaczar: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): in in in a myriad of different ways. But especially I think in the work world, we don't tell people that we really appreciate them or that we need them or that we really like that they've actually made a difference. And it's so it's so important to do that if you can.
Novaczar: Yeah. Yeah, and it's interesting that I feel like it's kind of frowned upon sometimes and people like find it to be so uncomfortable and I'm like, no, you don't realize how much I needed to hear that because the demons inside and all the things that I hear that are the complete opposite of that, you know, ⁓ but it does feel like when you, you know, I'm a woo woo spiritual person. ⁓ you trust the universe, sometimes that the ⁓ moment when you needed to hear that the most is when
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Novaczar: it grants you with that kind of gift. You know what I'm saying? And so that can be very beautiful.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Yeah. It can be, but I also think like you invite that in, right? And you like you specifically. I I think I do a little bit as well. like you ⁓ like some the things that you post on Instagram or whatever, like not like obviously your content is always fabulous and and I love all your looks. It's just like so cool to watch. ⁓ but also the stuff that you post, like maybe that other people wrote, like the sort of maybe some of the sort of woo-woo spiritual kind of things.
Novaczar: Mmm. Thank you. Thank you. Mm-hmm.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): There's an invitation in that. I think at least when I post them, this is what what I'm thinking, sometimes what I'm thinking when I post things like that. There's an invitation in that for somebody else to respond and see and see you and see your heart a little bit more than you might expose in other ways or even in conversation.
Novaczar: Yeah. Yeah, and that's part of the reason why I do my best to post like inspirational things because It is for me, of course But it's also like I want somebody else to if they're having a bad day or something to see that and like Then they get the same satisfaction that I do when I as if when I first saw it You know what I'm saying? Like sometimes in my little where you can like post a note or whatever like I'll put you're beautiful or you're a warrior so that if somebody
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Right.
Novaczar: having a bad day and they just see that, it doesn't even have to be like, ⁓ it's me posting it. Just them seeing that quote could potentially shift their mood. And that right there, like knowing that that energy is being spread out is what makes me feel like there is good happening in the world. And it takes me two seconds to post that. You know what I'm saying? ⁓ So I think that that's just important, especially right now the world's on fire. Like, you know.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Right. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Like seriously. We need we need all the good things, right? Yeah. All the good things. We need them all. Yeah. And I and I think like if you think you also in doing I think when you post those the sort of inspirational things, like I do the same thing. And sometimes sometimes my ⁓
Novaczar: Yes, all the good quotes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): My motivation is just like it moved me, I wanna share it. And sometimes my mo not that I have to have motivation for everything, but you know what I mean? Like sometimes my mo my motivation is like, I need I needed this. Like I needed this and maybe if I sh share this, somebody might reach out and say, Hey, are you okay? You know what I mean? Like sometimes that's the sometimes that's it. And I think when you post some of the things that you post and maybe some of the things that you write yourself, ⁓ in in in
Novaczar: Yeah! Of course. Mmm. Mmm. Yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): you know, you've written very openly, I think, about like, hey, I'm struggling today. Like those kinds of things. And I think that's it's an invitation, right? I think it's a it's an admission, but it's an invitation as well. At least the way I read it.
Novaczar: Yeah, yeah, totally. Yes. Definitely. Yeah, sometimes it's a cry for help. ⁓ And but it's also like, there's a part and a lot of times like, ⁓ people are like, why do you post things like that? Like, like, you're so vulnerable. And it's like, because I need people to see that I'm a human being, you know, and that, yes, I'm fabulous and talented and all the all the wonderful things. But like, that doesn't come with all the hardships and the struggles as well.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah.
Novaczar: And I do find that despite like wanting it to be a cry for help sometimes, but it's also, think, hoping that I am doing okay, that somebody ⁓ be inspired by ⁓ I guess the story arc of, wow, like they might think that I'm so talented, but also like just last week they posted something about how they were struggling. Like that means that it... ⁓ if they can have those two ends of the spectrum happening at the same time or within the span of a couple of weeks, like maybe I can also be at the level that they are at, if that's what they're trying to achieve. You know what I'm saying? I just think that that's important to show like that duality. And that's always kind of important to me as an artist and as a human being. So I don't really shy away from that.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Right. One of the reasons why I wanted to talk to you ⁓ on this podcast specifically ⁓ was because of that, right? Because that's sort of what this is about. It's about, look, we all struggle. Like, if you think like somebody has all their shit together, they don't. Like, I guarantee you, they don't. I just read something the other day.
Novaczar: Yeah. Right.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): it was basically a quote from somebody saying, like, ugh, like some days I just suck and I I'm I don't like myself and I don't like the work I do. And I think it was Charles Dickens, which is so real, right? So yeah. So but I think like that's why I wanted have this do this this
Novaczar: Which is so real, that is so real. I love that.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): podcast because I think like we all struggle. We all have shit that happens and we don't like it and we think about we think thoughts that we don't like or something happens and like I said at the beginning, we think like I learned that lesson, I'm good, and then something comes along and like hits you in the face, be like, Hi, it's me again. Remember that lesson you thought you learned? Right, you need more, right? We we all have that and I think it's so important for people to hear that because people think that some people have all their shit together and nobody does.
Novaczar: you Yeah. Right. Yeah, I just have never subscribed to this idea that like, like, okay, I'll give you like a great example, like RuPaul. You know what I'm saying? Like during 2020, like there was a point where RuPaul wasn't posting on social media at all. And people were in a whole uproar about it. Like, why aren't you speaking out about this? Why aren't you, you know, telling us how you feel or whatever? Why aren't you protesting? Why aren't like, you know I'm saying? And like, there's two sides to this. One, they have a very valid point. But the other part of it is like, you are expecting somebody to do something for you ⁓ think that they should be doing. You're holding them to this expectation, but RuPaul is the one who gets to create that narrative. You know what I'm saying? And so I think it's interesting for me, like, I just, I don't necessarily need anybody to tell me what I should or should not be doing. Like I, I choose what I am going to put out there.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Right.
Novaczar: And if I'm feeling like being vulnerable than I will and if I don't then I won't like it's just you know and also like it's got me into trouble multiple times and and that's okay, too because like ⁓ find Beauty in the realness of it, you know and it also brings up wonderful beautiful conversation sometimes and I also think that it attracts like-minded people ⁓ much like yourself. You know what I'm saying? Like we wouldn't have this be having this conversation if
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. very much like yourself.
Novaczar: if it wasn't for the like mindedness of the both of us. And I think that that's a part of it as well. ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Right. Mm-hmm. Totally agree. I was following you because of Lempicka but we'll get there. ⁓ our mutual love. ⁓ I know, right. ⁓ know, going back to the name of your your your show every week. ⁓ so ⁓
Novaczar: Right our love Right makes me so happy when I hear about Lempicka Yeah, sorry Yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): We st I think that's how we I started following you was from was from that. But I think I had first reached out to you. I'm sure that you posted something and probably one of those like a vulnerable story or something and and I I responded 'cause I'm like I was just so compelled and felt drawn to do that. And so I think, yeah, there's so much there's so much beauty in that just in connection.
Novaczar: Yeah Yeah. Yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): And I think like just to tangent for a second, like, you know, people sort of diss all over social media a lot because of they think like people are not connected like it's it's getting rid of connection or people aren't connected to each other because of social media. But I'm like, I have so many connections literally in my life because of so social media that I wouldn't have otherwise. ⁓ of them are because of Lempicka as well, but like it's but it but I yeah. I'm I'm doing social media, right? Is it ⁓
Novaczar: Mmm. because you're using it. Because you're using it correctly, you know, like Yes, yes, like some of these people are their head is somewhere completely different You know and they're judging for the wrong reasons or they're looking at things for the wrong reasons Like, you know, but that's with anything it could be you know a blessing or a curse, but I think it's beautiful
Ciara Gogan (she/her): ⁓ good. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I think so too. And I think that there's I think that is a also for me personally, like has given me confidence around more in person stuff as well. Not that I was like I mean, I'm an introvert, right? So I like I'm very comfortable when I'm in like a one on one or one on a couple setting with any you know, with people that I, you know, that I can have a conversation with. But stick me in a room of you know, twenty or more people and I'm just like, you know, I'm I'm th I'm i I'm in it. I'm there, but I'm not
Novaczar: Mmm. Totally.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): ⁓ as ac as like i ⁓ actively involved, maybe, should we say, you know.
Novaczar: Yeah, no, I have the same issue. Like, believe it or not, like, I mean, you've now met me twice in person ⁓ at like Lempicka related events. And like when I'm Noah, like I get like social anxiety and I'm, but when I'm Nova, like it's different because I'm the center of attention, you know, and I have to kind of push people away from me it gets annoying sometimes. But when I'm Noah, like I definitely become a little more like intrusive.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Right. Right.
Novaczar: And I get a little, way more in my head than I do when I'm Nova. And so that's why Nova's like a nice escape. But I can definitely relate to that, for sure. But it's also like a social exercise, ⁓ put yourself out there. And ⁓ there's a healing part of that, if you struggle with that. So putting yourself through the thing that you don't find comfortable.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's so interesting that you were saying that though when you're like when you're NOAA, like you don't because you're the center of attention. Like if I'm in a situ I mean my work is sort of in diversity, equity, and inclusion and you know, so I do some, you know, speaking and some like workshops and things like that. So if I'm in a situation like that where I'm there to present on something and I'm in a room full of like it could be hundreds of people, it doesn't matter. I'm
Novaczar: you Thank
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Hundred percent fine. I don't have that s that, you know, fear of speaking that some people f fear of public speaking that some people have. But like if you plop me into a room full of strangers and say, network and meet people, I'm just like, ⁓ God, no. Like you know?
Novaczar: Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah, and it's interesting I a lot of my drag sisters that I'm actual that I am cool with Because I'm not cool with a lot of them But some of them the the relationships that I actually do hold very dear to me We oftentimes we talk about how much of a can I cuss on this podcast? Is that okay? Great how much of a mind fuck? me make sure I really emphasize that F and the K mind fuck it is to be in drag and be ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): ⁓ absolutely. Yes, of course.
Novaczar: swooned over and people literally losing their minds and then the minute you get out of drag, it's like you don't even exist. It is wild and it's very difficult to deal with and I'm sure like, you know, for example, like, you like our lovely Eden Espinosa, like or or Julia Murney or Stephanie J Block any of the women who've ever played Elphaba, you know, can really understand that to a certain degree. ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Well Yeah.
Novaczar: You know, like you were just Elphaba and then you come out of the stage door and they might not even recognize that you were just Elphaba. It's kind of that idea. And it can be really, sometimes it's like, God because I really don't want anybody to like know who I am. But in terms of like even dating, like I get so much attention when I'm in drag. And then when I take the drag off, it's like nobody's interested. And I'm all of sudden, ⁓ sadly feel like
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm.
Novaczar: the ugliest person in the room or like the ugly duckling or like the black swan, you know, it's really weird, that unfortunately comes with the armor, you know, and comes with the title of a queen, you know, and some queens have it worse than others, you know, but that's just some real shit for you.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Ugh, no. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Well that sucks. Yeah. I ⁓ I was down in Florida in Key West and we went to a drag show and like they were just it was they were s it was just so fun. Like the they were so good. The Queens were so good and it was just really and there was one particular person who I was like super drawn to. ⁓ but I made a point of
Novaczar: Tell me about it. Hmm. Mm.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): I say I made a point. I didn't actually do it consciously, but as you're saying we as you were saying what you were saying, I was remembering about this, like they were out of drag, I saw them, you know, when they were leaving the club and I made a point to go up and say, like th you know, thank you for everything you were doing. I wasn't thinking about it from the perspective of what you were just saying, that like when you're in drag you're you know, the like the center of everything and then when you're out you're you know, you're not. But ⁓
Novaczar: Yeah Yes Yes, yes, yes that is amazing Please keep going with that because that is such a ⁓ rarity people don't see us as human beings people don't see us as real people, you know and
Ciara Gogan (she/her): To me it's the same person, right? I guess that's what I'm trying to say. Like I recognize the humanity of the human person that's in the drag, right? Maybe that's yeah. Yeah. Mm.
Novaczar: You know, I will say like I've done a way better job nowadays that I'm a little older than I used to because I used to take it so personally, but now I've a better job of going out as Noah, you know, and people do know me as Noah versus Nova. And it's kind of like healed some of that. And like there was a long time where ⁓ I even care about what Noah looked like out of drag. You know, I wouldn't buy clothing for Noah or care about how
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm-hmm. Wow.
Novaczar: My hair looked or anything like that. It was always Nova, Nova, Nova. And so it's, at least for me, very important to have a very clear separation. Nova is over there and when Nova is not here, it is Noah. And when it's Noah, Novaczar's in planet Exotica ruling over, you know, the galaxy. Like that's what she's doing and she's not here right now. You know, and I don't want to talk about drag, you know? And I have other interests outside of drag that I have to remember.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Right. Yeah.
Novaczar: to tap into so that I keep that separation separate, for lack of better words. ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's so interesting. Okay. Yeah. This is awesome. I love it. speaking of other interests, so one of your other interests obviously is Broadway shows or theatre. I shouldn't say just Broadway, but theatre, right? I mean theatre. Theater, darling. What are you seeing tonight? I think I know. Hang on. Okay. Yes, yes, yes. I think so. Mm-hmm.
Novaczar: Yeah. Theater, theatre. I'm literally seeing a show tonight. Giulia Yes. I think that's how you pronounce it. Yeah. The poison queen of whatever. Yeah. She's like belting and makes a poison to kill her, her abusers. I'm like, perfect. Like sign me up. Yeah. Yeah. It's such a limited run. So I was like, as soon as I could snag a ticket. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's that.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): That looks amazing. Let's go right. Mm. Do you th is it off Broadway?
Novaczar: P? P-P-P-Pack? think it's like something like that. It's yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Okay. Where cats was, right? Is that where cats? Yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah. ⁓ do you think it'll transfer? It looks amazing.
Novaczar: ⁓ I don't know. It's, hard because I feel like it's, one of those like Lempicka things where like, you know, it's ⁓ center of the stories of woman, you know what I mean? And yeah, exactly. So I don't, I hate to say like that, but I, in my world, totally, it should be on Broadway right now. But I don't know. I, but I do think like shows like that, it's smart to start off Broadway, which is something I think Lempicka should have done to be honest, but.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah, God forbid, right? Yeah. Right. Yeah. Mm. Okay. Right. Exactly. Yeah.
Novaczar: I'm not a producer, what do I know?
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Lempicka, I miss it so much. I know. I'm so peop people are so sick of me talking about it. But like I just I just no, I don't care. I actually don't care. We absolutely are. I don't really don't care. Like it changed my life, right? And and I think, you know, as and this is one of the questions I wanted to ask you, right? 'Cause for me, like as a as a as a gay woman, as a queer woman, as a strong, you know, strong willed, strong minded person, female person,
Novaczar: I know, same. Through them. We're keeping her alive. Yeah. Yeah. Same. Yeah. Yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): And and I mentioned, you know, growing up in Ireland when it was a criminal offense to be gay, were so many things ⁓ in that show that spoke to me, like that really, like literally moved me and changed my life. ⁓ just quickly for the audience, Lempicka ⁓ a Broadway musical that had a very short but blazing run, ⁓ two years ago now, about the artist Tamara de Lempicka, who was a bisexual woman. ⁓
Novaczar: Mm-hmm. Mm. you.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): primarily set between the wars, which is when her like she was said the Queen of Art Deco. You know her work, even if you don't know her name. ⁓ and it was about her and her her life. And it was a a f fucking amazing, phenomenally brilliant, transformative, unbelievable show. the critics shit all over it because And then ⁓ for w you know, whatever for whatever reason, ⁓ of the critics, not all, but like it it it it just it anyway, it closed very prematurely.
Novaczar: Yep. Thank Yeah. Thank
Ciara Gogan (she/her): But it literally changed lives, mine included. And so for me it's like it I i there were so many things in it that I could relate to. Like the whole Le Monacle scene, like I didn't have that. Like I didn't have a place to go, right? And th that was one of the reasons why that particular piece of it really resonated with me 'cause it's like, my god, if I'd had that I don't know that my life I mean, it it probably would have been a different life that I had.
Novaczar: Mm-hmm. Mm. Thanks for watching!
Ciara Gogan (she/her): But it would have been just so nice to have that place. And and so certainly for the like the gay guys in Ireland had a pla or at least in Dublin had a place to go. ⁓ for women there wasn't a place to go, and so, or at least not that I'm aware of. Anyway, so for a myriad of reasons, not not least of which is the incredible talent of Matt and Carson who wrote the show and Eden starring as as ⁓ Tamara de Lempicka was like just fucking unbelievably amazing. ⁓ okay, so that's me. ⁓
Novaczar: Yeah. Yeah. you you
Ciara Gogan (she/her): But for you, like wh why did it how what did it do for you? Like how did it change you? Like t tell me. I don't know, we can talk for hours, but you know.
Novaczar: Ugh. How much time do you have now? Um, I know. So the first... trying to think back. So I like love watching and listening to just interviews of powerful leading women talk about their careers and their lives and what they do and what they've done and whatever. ⁓ so Eden was starting to talk about on like different podcasts and things about like Lempicka. And I was like, what the hell is that? Like, like, but, and she, kept coming up in her interviews. And I was like, okay, I must do some research about this because like, ⁓ is it? And I did a little, I did some research on YouTube and all I saw was that like that first, the first images, cause I knew that they had Woman Is out. They had Perfection and they had like another song. I think it was, I Will Paint Her or something like that. There was like three songs that were out. ⁓ And ⁓ La Jolla, yeah. Yeah. And it was like, it's like something sessions and just the image of
Ciara Gogan (she/her): From La Jolla, I think it was yeah, yeah.
Novaczar: Eden in a blonde wig like painting on a canvas and she's belting. I was like, what is this? And when I did research about it, just this idea that this powerful woman who was also queer, who ⁓ in between two worlds of like the love of ⁓ woman, Rafaela, and also like her yearning and longing to paint and to create art and the fact that her art was her will to survive is literally so in line with with how my life has gone. ⁓ And, you know, like in the in scenes where she's like like right before she ⁓ brings Tadeusz and and they escape to Paris, just
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm.
Novaczar: The the strength I'm not leaving here without him like like and The fact that ⁓ we don't until the second act that she we thought this whole time that she was selling her body and how She didn't even want to tell Tadeusz not because she didn't want to unpack that trauma because she was protecting a man of his trauma Talk about fucking strength like you know what I mean, and then he kept
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm-hmm. Right.
Novaczar: Nagging her and nagging her and finally like you know what fine I will tell you what happened and you know what they didn't even touch me because that's how powerful I am as a woman that is so like cut like everything about that Really? I'm sure you can see how passionate I get about this like ⁓ about that makes me so like just like every and my in my soul like light up because
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm-hmm. Mm. Yes.
Novaczar: That was very much my experience. Like I grew up with an alcoholic abusive father and my mom passed away in seventh grade. And so that was my life. And I only had my art. That was the only thing I had to survive. And there were so many times where it just got so rough and so traumatizing and scary. And art was the only thing that I had. it much was, and I was queer, you know? And there were ⁓ where I was...
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm. Mm.
Novaczar: fucking women and fucking men, you know, like just like, just like Tamara, like, you know what I'm saying? And there were so many things that I didn't tell my dad because of the, because of the fear of what he was going to say or do, also knowing the knowing now his alcoholism got worse when my mom died. So ⁓ had to, I innately, I was trying to protect him ⁓ of
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Course, yeah.
Novaczar: shit that was going on because of what he was dealing with, which I feel like is very much in line with what Tamara was probably dealing with as well and like what what she was thinking. So there was just like it was very layered for me. And obviously like the music and like you had you put a woman in the center belting the entire show, which is nothing makes me more happy than seeing a woman belt, especially in a man's face during Speed telling telling him to fuck off. Like that is like my like
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm.
Novaczar: Like kryptonite, like, so it just was so important and fascinating and like just hearing like just the mystery of like how nobody really knew like a lot about her and like the stories that she made up and just the fabulous life of Paris and like how she's like, look at these hands. These hands were once were pretty, you know, and now they're cracked, you know, and I just find that to be so beautiful and inspiring and
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm.
Novaczar: just way that she just kept going because she had to and knowing that she had a child in the room, like a touch of innocence, but like knew ⁓ there was something inside her that could, that had to be released. I think is so fascinating and so interesting and screw those fucking reviewers. The critics don't know what they're talking about ⁓ they're just scared of good art. And so there's my Lempicka.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm-hmm. Hmm. Seriously. Mm.
Novaczar: talk. ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Okay, and we're done. No, out. ⁓ but like, yeah, like all of that. And and and and I think that's what's so fascinating to me about everything that you just said is that like everybody had different response. The people that moved and changed by it were moved and changed by it for different reasons. You know?
Novaczar: Yes, yeah, there's one more thing I have to say and then I'm done, I promise.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Say listen, you can say as much as you like.
Novaczar: Okay, in Speed she says, handsome men never learned how to fight. Always had everything handed to you, but not me. Everything I have, I grabbed with these two hands. Like that is literally everything that I have always felt. I've always felt like these men in my life always had what I never had. Or if I wanted to have what they had, I would have to butch up or I'd have to change.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Hmm. Hmm.
Novaczar: who I am to fit in to get to what they're doing or what they have. And it's like, no, like I'm gonna do what I want, even if it's going against the grain. And I'm going to fight for it because I have to, because that's what lives in me. You know what I'm saying? And like, I'm also gonna belt in your face while I'm letting you know. Like that is so, ⁓ yeah, yeah, okay. Yes, I'm done, okay. it's everything.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Right? This is what's happening. No, I love it. It's no, you don't have to be done. But like but this is the power of art, right? It it's like it it it can it can reflect back to like again, like I said, s and and what this is what's so fascinating to me about this conversation that we're having right now because I've talked to a lot of different people about their sort of experience with Lempicka And for a lot of people it was very similar to mine in some ways, right? It was the you know the queer storyline seeing a strong woman and feeling that way about themselves. But like I think your perspective is just so fascinating to me because it's a little different from what I've heard from other people, but it's so powerful as well. Like it's just
Novaczar: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, like I want I was like I am Tamara like I was like this show was written for me I could play Tamara. this is now the role This is the role. This was written for me. This is something that I can very much into like this. Yeah
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm-hmm. Yeah. But you did I hadn't I don't how I missed this post before and I saw it like probably few weeks ago, I think after we met the first time. That where you dressed as Tamara for one of the shows. Like you were like fully embodied as Tamara for one of those that was amazing.
Novaczar: Yeah, it was. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and that's that's why I love drag. Thank you. That's why I love drag because that's what I've always felt about drag is that this is my opportunity to show the world like and really and to show myself and of course younger Noah like there's a role that I see. ⁓ going to show you that could embody that and like with with like that like Lempicka photo shoot, it wasn't even a question. It was like a download. It was like the universe was like, you're going to do this. It is going to line up. Nothing about it was like difficult. Like I found the dress on AliExpress. And what was wild about that dress is I, when I wore that dress at the first preview, Rafaella wears a dress very similar to the dress that I was wearing in one of the scenes in the show. And it just felt so kismet and like, I had never gone to a first preview like that. I had never done something like that, but it felt like I had to. Like, there's just something in me that was like, you need to do this. of course the praise and everything was just for the cherry on top, but it wasn't for that. was ⁓ something in me was like, I need to do this. Yeah, yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): It was for you. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I I feel like like I wouldn't be we wouldn't be doing this if it wasn't for Lempicka Not you and I having this conversation, but I wouldn't be doing this if it wasn't for Lempicka. Like one of the things that I ended up doing, I think you probably saw, but like, I recorded a video after I saw it the first time 'cause I was like, oh my fucking god, like what just happened? And I need to like I need to say this and I need the people who who did this to hear this, like somehow.
Novaczar: Right. Right, yeah, I know. Yeah! Yeah, yes
Ciara Gogan (she/her): And I don't even know how, like, I sent it, I posted it, and I shared it. And then like I and then I messaged Eden and said, you know, I just made a video about the, you know, the da da. And she's ⁓ my god, did you send it to And like, okay. then, you know, and I I don't even know how she saw that, because I was it would have been stuck on her message requests, but whatever, somehow she saw it. and shared it and and whatever. And that's not it wasn't important for her to share it necessarily. It was just it was important that
Novaczar: Yeah, right.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): they saw it. Like that everybody that was in the show saw it. That the the I I I just I needed them to hear that message, right? That was like so. But that but my doing that video, like I am not a person who is comfortable being on video other than like in like a work corporate work setting like on a Zoom call, right? But I'm this is this wasn't wasn't me. Like this, you know? ⁓ you know
Novaczar: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It was a spiritual like shift for for people like us. Yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): It was r it was s it was really seismic. It was. And for so many people. And so I think that even though it had a short run its first Broadway run, it was a seismic impact in s on so many people.
Novaczar: that impact. And it was like, if you got it, you've got it. And like, and that's also what's so interesting, because I think a lot of the art, not I don't think I know a lot of the art that I'm into, and that I choose to put out into the world is so niche. And like, Lempicak is niche, obviously. And, you it's interesting, like in my career, you know, I've been on television, and I've worked for Virgin Voyages and shit.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah.
Novaczar: ⁓ And also did musical theatre like was always told that you have all the chops to be commercially successful ⁓ ⁓ great. But that is just that I just don't feel comfortable doing anything that and so I'm grateful that I've created a career know that I'm this niche, know artist And yes, like of course there are so many times where I'm doing my little Duplex show even. And I'm like, ⁓ like, you know, I should be doing something bigger or something better, but it's like, I would have to compromise a part of myself to do that. And that's just, I'm just not interested in that. And I feel like that's very in line with Lempicka. Like I feel like Lempicka could have done this or done that or had a different name that people could understand more or the marketing or whatever. But no, Lempicka did what Lempicka needed to do.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Right.
Novaczar: in order to give the truth and authenticity of what the story called for and everybody involved in it, think, approached it from that perspective. And I think that is the beauty of all of that and why it's like lasted so long and touched the people that it needed to. Does that make sense?
Ciara Gogan (she/her): a hundred percent. Yeah. And it's like, I mean, my so my wife and I Tamara Lempicak's work has been in our lives since we've been together. Like we've known about her for a very long time. Like nothing original th you know, ⁓ I right? But ⁓ I have that kind of money. But we have prints of hers like one of Yeah, I know, right? Like one of the f one of the first prints I ever bought and one of the first gifts I ever bought my wife was a print of the and the Green Bugatti. Like that's
Novaczar: Thank ⁓ that's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Right. They're so expensive. ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): That's and it's literally been in our home for like, you know, twenty years. Like so so when I saw that there was gonna be a musical about her, I'm like, my god, we have to go they're they're making a musical about Tamara de Lempicka we have to go. But ⁓ but I know that I'm in the minority ⁓ the people who are like, I I knew who this is and you know. Right? Exactly. Although I actually I mis I mispronounced it in my video. I watched it recently and I'm like, my god, did I really do that? But whatever. Anyway. ⁓
Novaczar: I love that. That's so cool. Right, right. Nobody even know how to pronounce it. Like, you know, but that's why like ⁓ Yeah. But that's why every week at my, yeah, like at my Duplex show, as you mentioned, I always do, I always open with like a snippet from Lempicka. And then in the middle, I do plan And Design And then at the end, I always end with Unseen And right when I do Plan And Design I'm like, does anybody know Lempicka? And, you know, I always explain how It took them like 14 years to bring it to Broadway and it was on Broadway for one month and I was like that's commercialism and capitalism at its finest and it's ruining Broadway. And I go on a little tangent about it and then I explain the story to keep it alive and to show people like how important this is. And like if you're here to see me like this is the kind of shit you're gonna get. You know what I'm saying? So.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's it's just so it's so ⁓ it's such an important show. And, you know, I don't think it's done. I don't know what's next, but
Novaczar: Yeah. It's not done and a part of me feels like it to say this, but like was it ahead of its time? Like it's weird to say that, but like.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): It w No, I know. people have said like even if it was this season it would have been different. Or even if it was ⁓ like I think in some ways it was of its time, in some ways it was right on time. ⁓ yeah. In twenty twenty yeah, you know. Right. Did really well. Yeah. Maybe.
Novaczar: Sure. Yeah, right, right in 2026 in July Like so weird, but I mean obviously it's in Korea right now and it's thriving, you know It just was maybe in the wrong place ⁓ So God bless
Ciara Gogan (she/her): I think ⁓ yeah, I know, right? But I ⁓ but I think I don't think it's done and I think so like Eden has talked about wanting to d wanting to direct like her version, which that needs to happen. Like, I'm sorry.
Novaczar: Right, ah Immediately Eden get on that go to your Shakespeare Okay, and then come back and give us Lempicka and let me audition. Okay. Oh my god I'll do anything you say like literally trust her with my life
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Right. And then come back. Let's go. Right? I know. Yeah. that needs to exist.
Novaczar: Yeah, I also think what's interesting about that show is like relationships that I've been able to create with with Carson and with Matt and with Eden and with Rachel like and and Cody the stage manager ⁓ I've like ⁓ Going to like little Noah if little Noah knew like that I'd just be DMing Eden like And I DM Matt sometimes and Carson's asking me for the photo that we took at Eden's concert. What? That's so crazy. it all is in line with the right people working on a piece of art like Lempicka. And I think it takes all those like-minded people to bring something like that to fruition. ⁓ So I just feel blessed to have been to.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Novaczar: you know, be in their orbit.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Right, same, a hundred percent. And I also think like that same thing about like just people lining up or like the or the right people finding each other, or even just I even know where I was going with this. I think just like even like outside of the art world, it's it's there's there's things will happen in your life that are just meant to happen, right? And I think like those those connections, like having I think that
Novaczar: Good. ⁓ Yeah, yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Like those types of connections just come from a genuine place of like, I really care about this, whatever it might be, and this is my whole heart about it. And and like people will see that and recognize it and and appreciate that, I hope. Right? Like I think that's just what happens in life. If if you're i but I think you have to be well, this is what I was trying to say. Sorry, I forgot my train of thought there for a second. You have to be open to it, right? You like you're you have to be open to the experience.
Novaczar: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah No, it's okay
Ciara Gogan (she/her): something like that happening. And I think that's part of what Lempicka did for me, honestly, was just open me back up out of I had been in this sort of numb place that I didn't really know that I was in until that night, the first night that I saw the show. And that in t it just blew me out of this complete numbness, but also opened me up to experiences and conversations that I just never have even thought about before. Or even like they wouldn't have even it wouldn't have crossed my mind because
Novaczar: . Wow.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): it it just wasn't in my sphere in any way, shape or form, if you know what mean.
Novaczar: Yeah, that's so beautiful. I mean even this podcast like you wouldn't have started it if it wasn't for Lempicka So that's I think that's really really beautiful and I'm happy for you. That's so awesome. You deserve it
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Seriously. Nope. Nope. Yeah. Thank you. And yay. And I'm loving it. Like I just I love I I'm just enjoying it s so much. I just love having these conversations. ⁓ in you know, and wherever they go, right? It doesn't even you know, yeah. Right?
Novaczar: Good. I love that. Yeah, it's okay. You're just putting it out there and that's and the people that need to see it or or, you know, have the same experience as you will and that you never know like how that could change somebody's life, you know.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah, totally. one of the questions I was curious about, because I think there was, you know, like you're probably of all the people that I have sort of lined up or have said yes to doing this, you're the youngest you just turned thirty, right? Yay! Happy birthday. I know, right? But like and and I think ⁓ is it a new chapter, right? A new decade is definitely a new chapter.
Novaczar: Sure did yeah girl. Yes. Thank you wild I know New chapter Yeah, it feels that way. Yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): And I think like I think you are, you know, like I said before, er you know, open about your growth, open about the you know, some of the lessons that you're you're learning. What's a lesson that you think you're still learning?
Novaczar: Yeah. Hmm I'm so in my head like the freaking time and it's debilitating and it's clear to people and I'm learning at attempting trying to tell myself that relax and Learning how to I love when Eden discussed ⁓ like regulating your nervous system when dealing with traumatic situations or things that might trigger you. I think that that's another lesson that I'm learning, like how to regulate my nervous system when I get triggered by things, because I have a lot of triggers. ⁓ And to ⁓ and start to get out of here, because this is like literally like my worst enemy. And I think for so long, it just ruled.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Uh-huh.
Novaczar: the way that I viewed the world and the way that I view relationships and the way that I carry myself. And I think it's high time that we stop doing that. ⁓ So I'm learning to try and name that inner saboteur ⁓ like when it pops up and when it's so loud, a from Lempicka, like, my God, the voices get loud in stillness, which RIP should have been in the show.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Yeah. Ha ha ha.
Novaczar: ⁓ I feel that so heavily like because they do get so loud and to remember that don't need to let let that control your reality and sometimes you know if your intuition might be telling you something but if it's happening all the time then like You know, it's important to try and work work on that and work through it and I'm hoping that eventually specifically in my 30s that I can silence that voice a little bit and kind of live more in the moment.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Think what's interesting about that, like so the inner saboteur, ⁓ think the trick, the key to unlocking that whole thing is understanding the difference, recognizing the difference between your inner saboteur and your intuition. Right? Because they're not the same thing, right? You know, they're not the same thing. And like one of the ways that I had learned or you know, sort of ⁓
Novaczar: Mm-hmm. Yeah, right, right. That's exactly it. Yeah
Ciara Gogan (she/her): I don't want to say learned 'cause I'm not complete it's not completely it's never, you know, completely away, right? But one of the things that I learned is that your your inner your inner saboteur or your inner critic tends to be very like yes or no, like black or white. It's very binary.
Novaczar: Yeah Yeah
Ciara Gogan (she/her): And your and your intuition or your curiosity is or your intuition is more curiosity based, right? It might be like, you know, ⁓ like why am I feeling this way as opposed to like nope, I'm not doing it because that's just you know what I mean? And so there's a balance there. Right.
Novaczar: Yeah. Yeah, like having that wall there. and I also have been learning like go before you're ready. Like and that's that's something that they tell you in theatre When I was in high school that was one of the things I took away from one of my theatre classes was go before you're ready. And and that I think also kind of goes into getting out of your head.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): ⁓ yeah. Yeah.
Novaczar: and like just jumping in, even when you don't feel like you can or you should or whatever, or then that's when you start to spiral in your mind. And I think having that as like a motto has helped me a lot. And yeah, so that's kind of, and just remembering like going back to my roots and like what makes me happy, I think is important as well.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Right. But Go Before You're Ready is so like again, this podcast wouldn't exist without Go Before You're Ready. you have to you have to do it despite the fear, because the fear is never gonna be completely gone. ⁓
Novaczar: Exactly, exactly. Right. And, so ⁓ my therapist recently told me, she was like, don't catastrophize things.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): I mean maybe it will for some people, but for a lot of us, right? It's like you gotta like what would you do though you're afraid, as opposed to like what would you do if you weren't afraid, right?
Novaczar: And that was the first time I've ever heard that word (catastrophizing). And now I'm obsessed because I'm like, damn girl, read me, read me right now, like a book. Cause like that is something that I ⁓ a lot and have basically my whole life, you know? And so learning learning when I catching myself, when I do that and being like, is this something you need to catastrophize right now? Or is this a moment where you can take a step back, look at it and be like, okay.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Yeah. Right.
Novaczar: I'm overreacting, I'm doing the most, I'm catastrophizing the situation and I'm spinning it into something that really doesn't need to be. taking a stand that's I feel like obviously comes with age and growing older and whatever they say. But that's another huge lesson that I've been recently trying to like tackle, you know?
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Right. Yeah. Yeah. But I think that's catastrophizing too goes back to in some ways the inner inner saboteur or the inner critic. It's like it's it's like it's again, sort of black or white, like yes or no. It's like, ⁓ yes, this th this is gonna happen, right? Th like it's very definitively like negative in that way, and that's a particular sense, as opposed to but you're like, No, hang on, like let me sit back and think about this. Is that actually gonna happen? Like what what are the different scenarios? Like that's your that's your conscious thinking, right? That's
Novaczar: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're right.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): that's the difference. So I think when you I think, you know, for for a lot of people, the inner critic, they think it's their intuition. They think it's their instinct talking to them. But it's really not. It's something else that's holding and it's something that we, you know, we needed in like when we were living in caves, right? It's like that sort of fight, flight, you know, whatever, like that type of situation. But, you know,
Novaczar: Yeah. ⁓ Yeah, right Right Yeah, yeah, but not every situation needs that
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Not every situation needs that. Yeah. I mean if you're in a dark alley and you hear a noise like in a you know, in a in a garbage can, like, yeah, get the hell out of there. But if you're like just, you know, we're having this conversation and something triggers you and you're like, Ugh and then you're like, ⁓ hang on, like let's just take a take a beat, you know, can you? ⁓
Novaczar: Yeah. Yeah. Right. And also like realizing when that inner sabatuer starts to create fog and then trying to allow it to dissipate before you act on like whatever you're feeling I think is huge lesson I'm learning right now.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Uh-huh. Right, exactly. Yeah, take a minute. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, ⁓ no, absolutely. I think that's really smart.
Novaczar: this goes back to, mean, anybody who was going to listen to this, who might know me from, you know, my, my career or whatever, like, ⁓ I think important to, to express like that these are things that every human being deals with, even me, you know what I'm saying? So, it's, you're, you're alone. And I think that is sometimes like those feelings make you feel very alone and just knowing that other people deal with it too, can be comforting sometimes. So.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah, absolutely. Right. Right e again, why why I'm having these conversations. 'Cause I want people to know that they're not alone. That like the the the shit that, you know, you're dealing with, that I'm dealing with at, you know, fifty eight seven right now, fifty eight in a couple of months, like like some of this shit just doesn't gets better. Absolutely gets better with age and with, you know, certainly, you know, you've mentioned therapy, like I've never
Novaczar: Yeah. Right. Right. you.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): like seriously had therapy. I've had a little bit, but not really. a lot. And so like something probably should do, ⁓ But anyway listen, I think everybody does right too. I don't disagree. But I think yeah. But I think like the point is that everybody's dealing with something. Like a and we all have shit that's going on. We all have, you know, s ⁓ stuff that kind of circles back on us or whatever it might be. And how do we allow ourselves the grace to be like, hey
Novaczar: I think everybody needs a therapist. Especially nowadays. Yeah. you
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Okay, this is like hu this is a human reaction. This is not, you know, this is human nature. Like this is what happens in life. and I want people to know that, that that's ⁓ having these experiences. No matter how put together you think they are. And and the people that you think are not put together at all are got their shit together in their heads, you know what I mean? Like everybody's got we all have stuff. ⁓ Right. Yeah.
Novaczar: Right. Yeah. Right. Right. Right there they hide it they hide it better than we do. Yeah, which is like so real, know, I don't know I just find it I just find realness to be so compelling like So, I don't know. Yeah
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Right. Absolutely. A hundred percent. Yeah. I like this question. it's a bit what quietly or not so quietly breaks you?
Novaczar: you Like there's so many things um, no, it's okay. It's okay. I'm trying to narrow it down. I guess When people like come for my character I Think that that really I have a hard time dealing with that. I also think because
Ciara Gogan (she/her): I'm sorry. There's probably two yeah. Yeah. Mm.
Novaczar: Because I put myself out there so openly, ⁓ mentioned, it kind of invites an audience, good bad. ⁓ And what also learning right now is to ⁓ not, so long, ⁓ I when those things happen or when people would say things, especially when cancel culture became really, really big. which I've been a victim to multiple times or people attempting to in different forms. not letting kinds narratives that people and put on you make you question like your own integrity. ⁓ And reminding myself that
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Novaczar: know who I am, I know my intentions, I know what I'm doing, I know that I'm not hurting anybody or doing anything truly wrong and if you're perceiving it that way, you know what I'm saying, and not giving me the opportunity to or have a conversation or whatever and just writing me off and then, you know, go, especially in my career, spreading this narrative to other people that I don't even know that when they meet me now that they're meeting me with this preconceived notion based on what you've created. I really hate that. I don't think that's fair. But it also is like, well, then those people on both ends are not supposed to be in my life. And think for a long time, I was very nervous that that was going to take away ability to share my art and take away my ability to work.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah.
Novaczar: Recently like I've been like baby. I'm 30. Okay, I like I have been told and I've People have said the worst of the worst of the worst possible things you can say to somebody unfortunately and I've been living in New York City since the end of 2018 and if anything bad like that was going to happen and would have happened by now and I'm doing way better and way more aware of how I come across and I'm in therapy and I'm way more smart about how I navigate the world now than I ever was. So it's like time to let go of that level of trauma or try and heal from it. ⁓ So yeah, yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Mm-hmm. Right. I love that. And yeah, being like being solid in your own foundation, your own core of like I know who I am and I know what my intentions are. ⁓ and so like having that solid foundation is so important. Yeah.
Novaczar: Yeah Yeah. Yeah, because people will do anything they can to try and break you and and and especially like in nightlife and that's why like getting away was so important and I feel so much better. ⁓ know, but literally that was it. I was out of the city for like basically three days and and I came back feeling like a fresh as a daisy. So
Ciara Gogan (she/her): People will. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ it was just one weekend away, right? It wasn't even like a long stretch, like literally one weekend away. Yeah. Awesome. I love it.
Novaczar: and ready to tackle it all again. But it just reminds me, OK, I love New York, but getting away is necessary. And it's OK. It will be here. It's not going anywhere. So yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ correct. Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Okay. I mean not that that I don't love that all that those experiences happen to you, but I love that, you know, that sort of realization or perspective at the end. And like not everybody that's in your life wants the best for you. And and understanding, right? Like who yeah. Yeah.
Novaczar: Yeah Honey, that is very much something I am learning right now. And really being honest with myself and honest with those types of people, you know, that's very much something that I've been trying to deal with is, and also like not getting upset when people consistently show you who they are and then reminding myself, all right, well, if you're always around them and they're always doing the same thing and this always pisses you off.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yep. And being able to let it go. Let them go. Right. It's yeah. Mm-hmm.
Novaczar: Like at some point you kind of just have to accept that's who they are and don't let it piss you off anymore, you know? Because if you've tried to talk them and you tried to change them or whatever and they won't, well that's not on you anymore and it's only damaging you, not them. So change your perspective.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Right. Right, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Or change your company, you know? Like it's a new environment Right. I mean no, sometimes you can't, absolutely. But I think yeah, right. Like you like your like yeah, there are gonna be people who are in your life that don't want the best for you. And if you can if you can you when you start to grow ⁓
Novaczar: Right? Or your environment, you know? And sometimes you can't. But of course, if you can, then, you know, don't be stupid. Right.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): you will lose people. Like when you you know, it happens and and I think and you have to be able to let that go. Or l or like you said, change your perspective. Exactly. Yeah.
Novaczar: Yeah and being yeah and being okay with that yeah and like I just this I call them downloads as I woo-woo spiritual bitch over here ⁓ you're here for a season I'm here for a lifetime that's I feel like that needs to be tattooed somewhere on my body like as a reminder you know like
Ciara Gogan (she/her): He Right. Yep. Right.
Novaczar: Like people always say people are here for a season, reason or a lifetime. It's like, no, you're here for a lifetime. And those people are here only sometimes only for a season. And I think when you kind of really think about that, hopefully it can be helpful to people.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Hundred percent. Right. Yeah. And you're you are your own longest relationship.
Novaczar: Right and like when you close your eyes, it's just you Even if there's somebody next to you that you sleep with that you've been with for how many years when you close your eyes Baby, and you're it's just you if that's all this, you know So yeah
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Uhhuh. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. All right. Okay. So the last thing that I want to ask you is, is there anything that we didn't talk about that you wanted me to ask you or anything else that you would like to leave us with?
Novaczar: Wow. So I am on this journey of wanting to do theatre. And I did musical theatre ⁓ a very young age and community theatre and then went to an art high school for musical theatre, went to college musical theatre. And the reason I stopped was because, as I mentioned, like always was I'm a leading lady. And everybody was like, no, you're not. And now I because I've been doing drag for so long which I still ⁓ Drag is not going anywhere. And I see so much theatre. Every time I see theatre, I I know there's just like a piece ⁓ soul that seems to just be missing. I'm theatre. And I'm at this point where I'm like, I don't even care if I get paid for it. ⁓ I recently looking up community theaters in Brooklyn. that are doing a production of Fun Home, like in the beginning of a year. And I'm like, I don't give a fuck. Like I'm gonna audition for it. if I don't get cast, just a callback would be so validating. Like just something to do outside of nightlife because it can really be soul sucking. And I'm grateful for the opportunities that I have. ⁓ And can't see myself not working in nightlife as of right now, but I don't necessarily ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah.
Novaczar: like want to be working as an actor on a commercial level unless it's really aligned. I think I just need to have that outlet of theatre, but in a way where I'm still comfortable in terms of being a non-binary performer and actor and the way that I have always viewed theatre, I think now that I have drag so secured and so locked in, there's a part of me that's like, okay, going to an audition and wanting to be Allison in Fun Home could actually be a possibility. And even if it doesn't happen, you're not losing anything because you still have drag so secure. And so that's something that I'm just manifesting and wanting to try and make happen because I know that that would make me really happy. And just finding that sense of community again. And like even working as an usher, like I don't care. Like I just wanna be around normal people.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Love that.
Novaczar: who are putting on theatre and just what I need. And if day I wanna own a theatre company, that would be cool. But I don't know, I gotta start somewhere. So that's kind of what I'm trying to manifest for myself right now. Yeah, ⁓ right, Yeah, knows? ⁓
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Awesome. All right. We'll put it out into the world and see what happens, right? Yeah. I love that. I think it's you know, I mean we have to have we have to, but it's nice to have dreams. It's nice to have something you working towards. It's nice to have something that scares the shit out of you that you wanna do, you know. Yes.
Novaczar: Yeah, it gives you purpose because for a while, like I was losing it. was when I was like calling for, you know, my story about, I'm struggling or whatever. It's because I felt like I had no purpose anymore, you know? And that's scary to be. so like, you know, I'm like, I need to find again theatre always made me feel so fulfilled. So yeah, that's the energy. Yeah.
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Love it. Love it. Love it. Love it. All right. We're we're we're putting the energy out there. Awesome. All right. thank you so much for doing this. This was so much fun. I know, me too. It's like it's been such a niche a niche conversation. I love it though. ⁓
Novaczar: Yes. ⁓ my god, of course! I had a great time! Thanks for... you asked great questions! I love it! I'm obsessed! It's my favorite thing to do! Like, let's get into it! Yeah!
Ciara Gogan (she/her): Absolutely again, thank you for doing this. Thank you for being here, thank you for your your openness and vulnerability and honesty. And and I think like there's definitely some stuff that we've talked about that, you know, will help folks out there, which is the whole point of this ⁓ this podcast. So and thank you everybody for tuning in. ⁓ we'll see you on the other side.
Novaczar: Party.
