THE SHIFT: Interview with Writer/Director Brock Heasley

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Strangers and aliens
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interview with director Brock Heasley.
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Welcome to the Strangers and Aliens podcast.
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Everyone, I'm Ben, Ben Avery. This is Strangers
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and Aliens, which is about that kind of
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nexus point between spirituality and sci fi and
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fantasy and creativity and Christianity.
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And today, we're gonna be talking with someone
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who has absolutely been doing
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pretty exciting work that sits right in the
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middle there, kinda taking a look at,
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some storytelling that he's done, and it is
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a film that is science fiction. It sits
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in that,
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that zone that well, that twilight zone. That's
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where it sits. It in the twilight
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zone. And it's a lot of fun. It
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gets into the multiverse, but it also gets
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some real spiritual ideas. And so Brock, I'm
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so excited to talk with you about about
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The Shift and about what you're doing with
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The Shift right now. So welcome. Welcome to
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the podcast. Yeah. Thank you, Ben. I'm excited
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to get into it. It's always fun to
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talk to somebody who, you know, has all
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the same passions that I have, and everything
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that your show is about is everything that
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I'm everything that's in The Shift and everything
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that I'm just crazy about on a day
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to day basis.
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So just so people know, the shift is
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a movie that came out from Angel Studios
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last year, November. Right?
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It was December 1. It was released last
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year. Yeah. So last year, December.
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It was a movie I went and saw
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in theaters, and I talked about it in
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our year end review
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just of the things we went and saw
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with Evan at the end of 2023 or
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beginning of 2024.
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But haven't done an episode about it. And,
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actually, I planned to, and then it was
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like, oh, it's been so long ago now.
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Then I saw something on Facebook.
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It was a post about it's from Angel
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Studios about the novelization
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of the shift, which is also kind of
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its own fascinating thing,
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after reading the, introduction and kinda seeing what
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the story is of the novelization.
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In some ways, that almost intrigues me more,
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as far as just
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the the story line of how you got
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to
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that that final part of the story right
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now. But,
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yeah. But the shift itself is a movie
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that,
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like I said, it has a multiversal
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angle to it.
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It definitely feels like a Twilight Zone film,
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and so that kind of,
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low key, not space opera, science fiction, but
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that personal,
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more grounded
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science fiction.
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Mhmm. Right. So Brock, tell us a little
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bit then about your background and where you
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kinda came from,
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before
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you were connected with Angel Studios and really
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started
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pushing out the the feature film of the
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show. Yeah.
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Yeah. So for me, I've always had a
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passion for
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sci fi and particularly, like, comics. You know,
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I was just way into comics as a
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kid and even dabbled a little bit in
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making my own.
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Didn't really think about,
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you know, writing my own stories and making
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up my own stories until I was in,
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like, my late twenties.
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And and I just kind of followed that
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for a while.
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And as a as a side hobby, something
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I'd work on late at night after my
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wife had gone to bed and just writing
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books and comics and doing all kinds of
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things and never thinking I would ever get
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into filmmaking.
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And,
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about 9 years ago, 10 years ago,
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my wife and I, we both lost our
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jobs,
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within 24 hours of each other. I've been
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working as a graphic designer previous to that
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and,
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and and really couldn't really struggled. Struggled to
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find work again
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and and just couldn't couldn't connect
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with an employer, couldn't connect with a paycheck.
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And,
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and that's when that became
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a matter of sincere prayer for both my
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wife and I. Like, what are we what
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are we supposed to do here? Because nothing's
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working out. Do we have bills today?
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And so long story short, the answer to
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that prayer was to get into filmmaking,
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and that was not a way to pay
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the bills. Anybody who jumps, you know, minute.
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Yeah. No. Anybody who who jumps, you know,
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into the beginning of filmmaking, it's a lot
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of working for free and a lot of
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just learning and volunteering. And,
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and so I did that for a number
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of years, and I still don't quite know
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how we made it through that financially, but
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we did.
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And, in the course of that, I I
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wrote and directed my first short film. It
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was called The Shift. I saw it very
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much as a kind of like a lost
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Twilight Zone episode where the twist at the
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end is that it has a spiritual angle.
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And if you go back and you find
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that original short film, which is, which is
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on our upcoming, special edition Blu ray, and,
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also, it's on YouTube. You could find it.
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And if you think about it in that
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way, if you watch it, think not knowing
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that it's got a spiritual angle to it,
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the the the angle that angle does play
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as a twist at the end of it.
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So I made that, very much just wanting
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to see if I could write and direct,
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see if I was capable of doing that
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and not thinking anything of it beyond that
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because
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who mixes
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science fiction, the twilight zone, or anything like
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that with faith? And and who who would
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do that and who would watch that? And
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and that was kind of the thought that
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everybody had who would, you know, help me
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make it. It was just like, this is
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cool, but what are you gonna do with
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it? And then Angel Studios came along, and
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they were just getting started. And they just
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had, like, the pilot for The Chosen Out.
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And they were and I and I looked
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at that, and I saw something tonally similar
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to what I had done in the shift,
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whereas I had done science fiction, but I
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had done something kind of darker and grittier
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and more grounded.
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And I saw The Chosen as doing that
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same thing, but doing it with the story
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of of Christ.
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Totally, it they they had some similarities. And
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I thought, well, you know, if anybody can
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understand
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what I've done,
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what the shift is, it's probably these guys.
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And so I really sent it into them
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just through their their website. You know, they
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had a way to submit projects, and I
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was really just hoping to get on their
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websites
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so that I could make a little bit
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of money from the short, which I hadn't
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done yet.
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And they saw it and they said, well,
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shoot, this is really interesting. And the next
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thing I knew, I was I was on
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the phone with the heads of the company
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and they said, is there more to this
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story? Is this just is this it, this
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short, or do you have more? And I
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and I said, well, I have some ideas.
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I don't have a script, but I have
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some ideas about how to turn this into
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a movie. And they said, well, great. Well,
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let's we're gonna help you do that. And,
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and then we were off to the races.
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And
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it's a very long story short, 5 years
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later, it it came out in theaters. Okay.
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So I wonder what the timeline was like
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because Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So 5 5 years
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then. Because I remember when they first put
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out, like, their website and said you could
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submit your own ideas. Mhmm. A buddy of
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mine,
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submitted a few things and was like, hey,
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Ben. Just check this out. I'm like, yeah.
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Whatever. And Yeah. And then it's like they're
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the biggest thing ever. I was like, oh,
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this is this is great as far as,
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like, creating faith based and family friendly
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Right. Things. And it's like, this this is
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pretty fantastic. And
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yeah,
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so,
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so 5 years then. And so how long
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were you developing then the story, like, to
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expand it from that short film into that
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feature length,
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screenplay?
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Yeah. So I was probably
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percolating,
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you know, the ideas in my head for,
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you know, a couple of you know, the
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short film was made in 2015.
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It was about a year after that that
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it that the postproduction was completed,
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and it started getting out there. People started
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because the the the short film ends
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kind of in a cliffhanger, but it wasn't
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intended to be. To me, it was just
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it just was the ending of the story.
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But I love you coming up to me
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and saying, you know, what what happens after?
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Like, what what you know? And and I
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thought, well, nothing. Like, I mean or whatever
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you imagine. Like, there's that that's the end
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of the story. But as I thought about
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that more and more, I just started generating
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ideas. And in my way of kind of,
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you
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know, following The Muse is just to have
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a word doc that I just dump ideas
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into, not really knowing what they're gonna be.
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And so for a couple of years probably
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before I got in touch with Angel Studios,
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I had just been dumping ideas into this
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Word doc. And and by the time they
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asked me, is there more?
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I pretty much had the full outline in
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my head or and and and at least
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spread across this doc. Right. Right. That that's
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pretty close to what you saw in theaters.
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So I had a I had a decent
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idea in that sense.
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And then and then yeah. And but then
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it was 5 years after that that the
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film got made. So all told, you're talking
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about, you know, 8, 9 year 8 years
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about of of just from, like, first thinking
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of doing the short film to the release
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of the of the feature film.
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So this next question,
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it might be as simple an answer as
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just
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had an idea. But but what kind of
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got you thinking to do this story though?
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Like, what what caused you to say I
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wanna tell the story of this guy who's
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doing
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this thing? And I wanna be careful about
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spoiling too much. I probably will
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end up kinda talking about some of the
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plot elements, but I really don't wanna spoil
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too much because I do wanna encourage people,
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like Yeah. To check it out, watch this
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00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:06,379
movie, this movie.
270
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It was so enjoyable for me to watch
271
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in the theater and just be able to
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say I'm watching it theatrically,
273
00:09:13,695 --> 00:09:16,254
in a film produced specifically to be seen
274
00:09:16,254 --> 00:09:16,894
in theaters
275
00:09:17,455 --> 00:09:17,894
Mhmm.
276
00:09:18,335 --> 00:09:21,235
That has that spiritual elements and that,
277
00:09:22,175 --> 00:09:24,195
and that's kind of not quite a retelling,
278
00:09:24,815 --> 00:09:25,889
but definitely
279
00:09:26,429 --> 00:09:29,309
is inspired by and is taking cues from
280
00:09:29,309 --> 00:09:31,230
the book of Job. That's how we always
281
00:09:31,230 --> 00:09:32,990
thought of it. Inspired by taking verses from
282
00:09:32,990 --> 00:09:34,429
the book of Job even and putting those
283
00:09:34,429 --> 00:09:36,509
on the screen kind of to, like like,
284
00:09:36,509 --> 00:09:37,490
here's the next,
285
00:09:38,024 --> 00:09:40,184
I guess it's not act breaks because there's,
286
00:09:40,184 --> 00:09:41,625
I think, 5 or 6 of them. But,
287
00:09:41,625 --> 00:09:43,784
like, here's the next section. It's gonna kind
288
00:09:43,784 --> 00:09:46,264
of be diving into this portion of what
289
00:09:46,264 --> 00:09:47,325
would have been Job's
290
00:09:48,264 --> 00:09:48,764
emotional
291
00:09:49,384 --> 00:09:51,144
arc, and we're gonna have a character kind
292
00:09:51,144 --> 00:09:53,399
of going through that same emotional arc. And
293
00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:55,399
yeah, that is something we kinda highlighted in
294
00:09:55,399 --> 00:09:56,840
the in the in the final film where
295
00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:58,600
you do have these these verses pop up,
296
00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:00,440
although we don't identify them as such until
297
00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:01,639
the end of the film. But that was
298
00:10:01,639 --> 00:10:03,480
actually something that developed really late in the
299
00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:05,480
in the postproduction process. That's not that wasn't
300
00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:07,394
part of the original script. But there's a
301
00:10:07,394 --> 00:10:09,475
difference between how subtle I wanna be as
302
00:10:09,475 --> 00:10:11,875
a writer and how subtle the audience will
303
00:10:11,875 --> 00:10:14,115
allow me to be. And and we found
304
00:10:14,115 --> 00:10:15,634
that the audience needed just a little bit
305
00:10:15,634 --> 00:10:17,394
more hand holding as we did test ratings,
306
00:10:17,394 --> 00:10:19,154
and so that's why those things are in
307
00:10:19,154 --> 00:10:20,754
there. But in the original conception of the
308
00:10:20,754 --> 00:10:22,799
film, I wanted to be inspired by Joe,
309
00:10:22,799 --> 00:10:25,039
but I didn't necessarily want to tip my
310
00:10:25,039 --> 00:10:25,860
hat to that,
311
00:10:27,199 --> 00:10:29,860
so much, as as it ended up being.
312
00:10:30,399 --> 00:10:32,079
But in in any case, it it I
313
00:10:32,079 --> 00:10:32,740
think it's
314
00:10:33,199 --> 00:10:35,120
I think it's a fairly innocuous addition. I
315
00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:36,764
don't I don't think it affects the the
316
00:10:36,764 --> 00:10:38,125
viewing too much. And and in some ways,
317
00:10:38,125 --> 00:10:40,125
it even enhances it. I I would say
318
00:10:40,125 --> 00:10:42,125
it does enhance it. Just Yeah. If you
319
00:10:42,125 --> 00:10:43,964
know like, I did and that's what really
320
00:10:43,964 --> 00:10:45,324
intrigued me before I saw it in the
321
00:10:45,324 --> 00:10:47,565
theater Mhmm. Was I can't remember what I
322
00:10:47,565 --> 00:10:48,684
saw. I think it's just a friend of
323
00:10:48,684 --> 00:10:50,845
my posting saying, this is a science fiction
324
00:10:50,845 --> 00:10:53,419
movie that's kind of inspired by Job. Job
325
00:10:53,419 --> 00:10:54,700
is one of my favorite books in the
326
00:10:54,700 --> 00:10:56,940
bible. And Right. I I told you that
327
00:10:56,940 --> 00:10:59,500
I've worked on comic books, with from the
328
00:10:59,500 --> 00:11:01,820
bible. And the favorite thing I've ever done
329
00:11:01,820 --> 00:11:03,899
from the bible was doing all 4 gospels
330
00:11:03,899 --> 00:11:06,804
and kinda putting it in in linear chronological
331
00:11:06,865 --> 00:11:08,704
order. Oh, cool. But the second favorite thing
332
00:11:08,704 --> 00:11:10,784
I did was when the publisher said, hey,
333
00:11:10,784 --> 00:11:11,904
we need someone to do the book of
334
00:11:11,904 --> 00:11:13,345
Job where you addressed it. And I was
335
00:11:13,345 --> 00:11:16,304
just I am there. I'm so excited about
336
00:11:16,304 --> 00:11:19,204
this because Yeah. It's just a powerful story
337
00:11:19,980 --> 00:11:22,139
on the literary side. What I like about
338
00:11:22,139 --> 00:11:24,220
it, doing it as a comic book is,
339
00:11:24,220 --> 00:11:25,600
you know, shit they say Shakespeare
340
00:11:26,139 --> 00:11:27,200
needs to be seen
341
00:11:27,899 --> 00:11:29,580
rather than read. And I taught Shakespeare in
342
00:11:29,580 --> 00:11:31,740
English high school and, I just feel like
343
00:11:31,740 --> 00:11:34,035
the book of Job needs to be seen
344
00:11:34,035 --> 00:11:35,795
so you can kind of keep track of
345
00:11:35,795 --> 00:11:36,295
who
346
00:11:36,675 --> 00:11:38,915
who's saying what. Like, who's saying these long
347
00:11:38,915 --> 00:11:41,634
blocks of text and Right. And you don't
348
00:11:41,634 --> 00:11:44,355
have that exact one for 1 with but
349
00:11:44,355 --> 00:11:45,795
you do have that, like I said, that
350
00:11:45,795 --> 00:11:47,575
character's emotional art.
351
00:11:48,059 --> 00:11:50,379
And then there's, some of the things that
352
00:11:50,379 --> 00:11:50,860
the,
353
00:11:51,660 --> 00:11:52,399
the benefactor
354
00:11:52,779 --> 00:11:55,179
says that really reminded me of things that
355
00:11:55,179 --> 00:11:56,700
some of Job's friends were saying when I
356
00:11:56,700 --> 00:11:58,379
was watching. Right. Right. So
357
00:11:59,100 --> 00:12:01,019
Yeah. There's a couple of characters in the
358
00:12:01,019 --> 00:12:03,035
film. The benefactor is one of them. The
359
00:12:03,035 --> 00:12:03,535
benefactor
360
00:12:04,235 --> 00:12:06,315
is well, for those that have not seen
361
00:12:06,315 --> 00:12:07,995
it at all, I the the the story
362
00:12:07,995 --> 00:12:10,075
is about a man who is, you know,
363
00:12:10,075 --> 00:12:11,915
having a hard time in his marriage. He's
364
00:12:11,915 --> 00:12:13,274
having a he's not as perfect as Joe.
365
00:12:13,274 --> 00:12:14,955
He's having a hard time in his marriage,
366
00:12:14,955 --> 00:12:16,415
hard time at at work,
367
00:12:17,299 --> 00:12:19,559
having a really bad day, and that's when
368
00:12:20,100 --> 00:12:22,120
a mysterious stranger approaches him.
369
00:12:22,580 --> 00:12:23,080
And
370
00:12:23,940 --> 00:12:26,360
and he this stranger has some pretty significant
371
00:12:26,419 --> 00:12:28,360
powers to kinda move between the multiverse.
372
00:12:28,955 --> 00:12:32,654
And that in their encounter goes badly. And
373
00:12:33,035 --> 00:12:35,355
our our our Jobe, his name is Kevin,
374
00:12:35,355 --> 00:12:38,975
he ends up banished to a dark parallel
375
00:12:39,035 --> 00:12:41,215
world where he is then fighting
376
00:12:41,519 --> 00:12:43,360
to get back to the woman that he
377
00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:44,580
loves to his own world.
378
00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:47,620
And so none of that sounds like Joe.
379
00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,879
But No. No. But but it it it's
380
00:12:50,879 --> 00:12:52,879
pretty clear by the end, you know, what
381
00:12:52,879 --> 00:12:55,115
I'm doing. And that's why some people would
382
00:12:55,115 --> 00:12:56,634
say it was based on Job, and it's
383
00:12:56,634 --> 00:12:58,954
not. It's it's very much inspired by. But
384
00:12:58,954 --> 00:13:00,975
characters like the benefactors also,
385
00:13:01,355 --> 00:13:04,074
you know, Kevin does have friends on this
386
00:13:04,074 --> 00:13:06,235
dystopian reality, and and some of the things
387
00:13:06,235 --> 00:13:08,394
that they say kind of get into some
388
00:13:08,394 --> 00:13:10,070
of the things that Job's friends
389
00:13:10,450 --> 00:13:12,450
would talk to him. And so these really
390
00:13:12,450 --> 00:13:15,490
important conversations that Job has in the bible
391
00:13:15,490 --> 00:13:18,470
with his friends about the nature of suffering
392
00:13:18,850 --> 00:13:22,309
and evil and and god's presence or absence
393
00:13:22,690 --> 00:13:24,149
Yes. These conversations
394
00:13:25,004 --> 00:13:26,764
happen in the shift, but just in in
395
00:13:26,764 --> 00:13:28,285
a slightly different way, in a in a
396
00:13:28,285 --> 00:13:29,504
totally different context.
397
00:13:30,125 --> 00:13:31,345
Yeah. Yeah. No. And
398
00:13:32,045 --> 00:13:33,565
when I went into it, I was wondering,
399
00:13:33,565 --> 00:13:35,404
like, is this city, like, 1 for 1?
400
00:13:35,404 --> 00:13:37,404
Are we watching, like or is this gonna
401
00:13:37,404 --> 00:13:39,565
see science fiction version of Job? And and
402
00:13:39,565 --> 00:13:40,529
it really is.
403
00:13:42,210 --> 00:13:43,889
And part of it is that is the
404
00:13:43,889 --> 00:13:45,649
multiverse. You know, Job does not have a
405
00:13:45,649 --> 00:13:48,129
multiverse. Right. Spoiler if you haven't read the
406
00:13:48,129 --> 00:13:48,950
Bible. Right.
407
00:13:49,570 --> 00:13:50,310
But also,
408
00:13:50,930 --> 00:13:52,370
a part of it is that it's also
409
00:13:52,370 --> 00:13:55,190
grounded in kind of our present day reality.
410
00:13:55,835 --> 00:13:57,355
And and that's one of the that's one
411
00:13:57,355 --> 00:13:59,195
of the great things about Twilight Zone is
412
00:13:59,195 --> 00:14:01,035
the Twilight Zone takes people you can really
413
00:14:01,035 --> 00:14:01,855
relate to.
414
00:14:02,394 --> 00:14:04,394
And that's why it's so effective in just
415
00:14:04,394 --> 00:14:05,754
that short amount of time and, you know,
416
00:14:05,754 --> 00:14:06,815
a half hour episode.
417
00:14:07,274 --> 00:14:08,915
Actually, the hour long episodes of Twilight Zone,
418
00:14:08,915 --> 00:14:10,634
I felt like weren't as effective for some
419
00:14:10,634 --> 00:14:13,470
reason. I totally agree. And but those half
420
00:14:13,470 --> 00:14:15,549
hour episodes is just compressed, but you're watching
421
00:14:15,549 --> 00:14:17,309
a character you you can relate to. You
422
00:14:17,309 --> 00:14:19,230
may not be that person, but you know
423
00:14:19,230 --> 00:14:19,889
that person.
424
00:14:20,429 --> 00:14:22,350
And and that's kind of the same here.
425
00:14:22,350 --> 00:14:24,350
And in fact, I was struck with with
426
00:14:24,350 --> 00:14:25,855
Kevin. I mean, a lot of what he's
427
00:14:25,855 --> 00:14:27,454
going through is stuff I have never ever
428
00:14:27,454 --> 00:14:29,375
been through. But I have a number of
429
00:14:29,375 --> 00:14:31,774
friends who have been through similar situations and
430
00:14:31,774 --> 00:14:33,534
and watching him and his marriage at the
431
00:14:33,534 --> 00:14:34,034
beginning
432
00:14:34,574 --> 00:14:36,574
and seeing, like, why their marriage you know,
433
00:14:36,574 --> 00:14:38,250
because it it starts out and
434
00:14:38,809 --> 00:14:40,809
this part, I will at least spoil. There's
435
00:14:40,809 --> 00:14:43,470
a really fun meet cute at the beginning
436
00:14:43,610 --> 00:14:44,590
Yeah. Where,
437
00:14:45,610 --> 00:14:48,509
Kevin meets I can't remember, her name. Molly.
438
00:14:48,649 --> 00:14:49,149
Molly.
439
00:14:50,250 --> 00:14:52,855
And and it's this it's this meet cute,
440
00:14:52,995 --> 00:14:54,355
and I don't know if you would call
441
00:14:54,355 --> 00:14:55,154
it that. I don't know if you would
442
00:14:55,315 --> 00:14:57,235
No. Yeah. No. It's that. Yeah. And it's
443
00:14:57,235 --> 00:14:59,715
just a sweet little moment. They're flirting. And
444
00:14:59,715 --> 00:15:01,955
then as they're flirting, you get these kinda
445
00:15:01,955 --> 00:15:04,434
montage things that kinda show you fast forward
446
00:15:04,434 --> 00:15:05,175
of the relationship.
447
00:15:05,860 --> 00:15:08,019
And then when you jump into the story
448
00:15:08,019 --> 00:15:08,500
though with,
449
00:15:09,540 --> 00:15:11,779
their their marriage is on the rocks because,
450
00:15:11,779 --> 00:15:14,060
you know, they've lost a child. And Yeah.
451
00:15:14,340 --> 00:15:15,860
That's something that,
452
00:15:16,580 --> 00:15:18,679
like, a lot of marriages just don't survive
453
00:15:18,945 --> 00:15:20,865
as as when loss of a child or
454
00:15:20,865 --> 00:15:22,465
finding out that a child has some sort
455
00:15:22,465 --> 00:15:23,445
of disease or
456
00:15:23,825 --> 00:15:26,384
has an accident and and, you know, and
457
00:15:26,384 --> 00:15:28,644
has a disability or something like that. And
458
00:15:29,105 --> 00:15:31,024
and so that stepping into that, I was
459
00:15:31,024 --> 00:15:32,245
like, wow. Okay. I
460
00:15:32,889 --> 00:15:34,750
I I can I can relate? I don't
461
00:15:34,970 --> 00:15:36,409
I don't feel like I am that guy,
462
00:15:36,409 --> 00:15:38,509
but I definitely know that guy. And,
463
00:15:39,129 --> 00:15:39,629
Yeah.
464
00:15:40,009 --> 00:15:42,090
And so it just it felt realistic, and
465
00:15:42,090 --> 00:15:44,250
there was definite realism to it that pulls
466
00:15:44,250 --> 00:15:46,274
you in then. So when you cross the
467
00:15:46,274 --> 00:15:47,735
universes, it's like,
468
00:15:48,195 --> 00:15:49,955
yeah, I can go with this guy now
469
00:15:49,955 --> 00:15:51,495
because Yeah. Yeah.
470
00:15:51,875 --> 00:15:53,875
Yeah. No. And and and the same, like,
471
00:15:53,875 --> 00:15:55,654
I have I actually have a child,
472
00:15:56,115 --> 00:15:57,335
with special needs,
473
00:15:58,169 --> 00:16:00,250
and that is a particular strain on a
474
00:16:00,250 --> 00:16:02,970
marriage that that that is it's not as
475
00:16:03,049 --> 00:16:04,490
I don't think it's probably as severe as
476
00:16:04,490 --> 00:16:07,470
losing a child, although the divorce rate for
477
00:16:07,529 --> 00:16:09,870
people in in our situation is 80%.
478
00:16:10,644 --> 00:16:12,565
And and, thankfully, my wife and I, we
479
00:16:12,644 --> 00:16:13,125
we're,
480
00:16:13,845 --> 00:16:15,384
24 years and going strong.
481
00:16:15,924 --> 00:16:16,325
But,
482
00:16:17,445 --> 00:16:18,664
but, yeah, it is
483
00:16:19,205 --> 00:16:21,705
we've all we've all got our relationships,
484
00:16:22,325 --> 00:16:24,004
you know, and and and many of us
485
00:16:24,004 --> 00:16:26,559
are married, and there are strains that enter
486
00:16:26,559 --> 00:16:28,100
into that. And it's very easy
487
00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:30,480
for me anyway to look back and think
488
00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:32,240
about those moments in my marriage where I
489
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:33,839
made a call, you know, I made a
490
00:16:33,839 --> 00:16:36,240
decision. Well, I'm gonna sacrifice my ego. I'm
491
00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,659
gonna sacrifice what I want for
492
00:16:39,075 --> 00:16:41,875
this partnership that's so important to me. And
493
00:16:41,875 --> 00:16:43,254
it's very easy to imagine
494
00:16:43,715 --> 00:16:45,634
going the other way and where I could
495
00:16:45,634 --> 00:16:47,154
have just dug in my heels and said,
496
00:16:47,154 --> 00:16:49,175
no, no, I'm not doing that.
497
00:16:49,554 --> 00:16:52,035
And, and, and that's kind of what I
498
00:16:52,035 --> 00:16:54,059
wanted to get at and illustrate with the
499
00:16:54,059 --> 00:16:55,740
shift with Molly and Kevin is to say,
500
00:16:55,740 --> 00:16:57,820
here's here's a marriage that's going through something
501
00:16:57,820 --> 00:16:58,799
really, really real
502
00:16:59,419 --> 00:17:00,220
and very,
503
00:17:01,259 --> 00:17:02,240
and very stressful.
504
00:17:02,700 --> 00:17:03,200
And
505
00:17:03,820 --> 00:17:05,680
how do these 2 people deal with it?
506
00:17:05,819 --> 00:17:07,819
And then before they get to resolve that,
507
00:17:07,819 --> 00:17:09,759
that's when Kevin gets yanked away.
508
00:17:10,855 --> 00:17:13,255
And so that that that becomes this hanging
509
00:17:13,255 --> 00:17:15,434
thread in the movie where you
510
00:17:15,815 --> 00:17:17,974
you you've got this guy who's, you know,
511
00:17:17,974 --> 00:17:19,815
he's already struggling with his marriage. Now he's
512
00:17:19,815 --> 00:17:21,255
separated from his wife, but he's trying to
513
00:17:21,255 --> 00:17:22,454
get back to her. Well, what happens when
514
00:17:22,454 --> 00:17:23,575
he gets back to her? It's not like
515
00:17:23,575 --> 00:17:24,970
they were in a great place. You know?
516
00:17:24,970 --> 00:17:26,730
And so this this question that kinda hangs
517
00:17:26,730 --> 00:17:27,630
over the movie,
518
00:17:28,250 --> 00:17:29,849
but I think, you know, for me, for
519
00:17:29,849 --> 00:17:31,849
my money, we obviously, I I think we
520
00:17:31,849 --> 00:17:33,609
end up in a pretty interesting spot in
521
00:17:33,609 --> 00:17:35,529
how we answer that question and and what
522
00:17:35,529 --> 00:17:37,230
happens when they come back together.
523
00:17:38,414 --> 00:17:38,654
But,
524
00:17:39,214 --> 00:17:41,134
but I'm I I've been married so long.
525
00:17:41,134 --> 00:17:43,315
I mean, marriage and and relationships are endlessly
526
00:17:43,375 --> 00:17:45,375
fascinating to me, and and the stresses in
527
00:17:45,375 --> 00:17:47,534
particular just because I think they're so difficult
528
00:17:47,534 --> 00:17:49,214
to navigate. And and as you say, they're
529
00:17:49,214 --> 00:17:51,134
so relatable. We all we all have those
530
00:17:51,134 --> 00:17:52,734
stresses that we have to navigate now and
531
00:17:52,734 --> 00:17:53,234
again.
532
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:55,740
The other kind of literary
533
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:57,799
I don't know if it's inspiration, but thing
534
00:17:57,799 --> 00:17:59,480
that I saw was just I'm reminded so
535
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:01,559
much of the Odyssey where it's just Yeah.
536
00:18:01,559 --> 00:18:03,500
He's just just trying to get home
537
00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:04,380
and
538
00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,519
everything's in his way to get and and
539
00:18:06,519 --> 00:18:08,295
that's where another, you know, just
540
00:18:08,695 --> 00:18:10,634
I can relate as far as, like, just
541
00:18:10,775 --> 00:18:12,134
he just wants to get home to the
542
00:18:12,134 --> 00:18:14,535
person he loves and it's just and it
543
00:18:14,535 --> 00:18:15,894
was a the other thing is it's a
544
00:18:15,894 --> 00:18:17,894
fun movie too. Like, that's that's the other
545
00:18:17,894 --> 00:18:19,255
thing for me is that I just really
546
00:18:19,255 --> 00:18:20,695
enjoyed watching it. When I watched it the
547
00:18:20,695 --> 00:18:22,490
second time, there were things I was picking
548
00:18:22,490 --> 00:18:24,169
up at the beginning that I remember puzzling
549
00:18:24,169 --> 00:18:25,609
over in the theater. Like, what does that
550
00:18:25,609 --> 00:18:27,210
even mean when they're you know, when the
551
00:18:27,210 --> 00:18:29,789
benefactor would say something and then Yeah. Yeah.
552
00:18:30,409 --> 00:18:31,769
Now I know what that means. You know?
553
00:18:31,769 --> 00:18:32,269
So
554
00:18:33,049 --> 00:18:34,649
repeat viewing was a lot of fun. It's
555
00:18:34,649 --> 00:18:36,704
not that you need a repeat viewing, but
556
00:18:36,704 --> 00:18:37,325
it definitely,
557
00:18:38,265 --> 00:18:40,265
made it a little bit more deeper when
558
00:18:40,265 --> 00:18:42,744
I was watching that second time. So And
559
00:18:42,744 --> 00:18:44,585
that that was very much by design. I
560
00:18:44,585 --> 00:18:46,684
love things that when I watch them again,
561
00:18:47,065 --> 00:18:49,144
you know, they they take on additional meanings
562
00:18:49,144 --> 00:18:50,880
for me. And so,
563
00:18:51,279 --> 00:18:53,279
designing a story in that way was was
564
00:18:53,279 --> 00:18:54,100
very intentional.
565
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:56,559
And I want people to be asking questions.
566
00:18:56,559 --> 00:18:58,000
You know, I don't think that some there
567
00:18:58,000 --> 00:18:59,600
there is a school of thought with movies
568
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:00,820
that they should be simple
569
00:19:01,519 --> 00:19:02,820
and not complicated,
570
00:19:03,575 --> 00:19:05,095
and you should be able to get it
571
00:19:05,095 --> 00:19:06,234
on the first fast.
572
00:19:06,855 --> 00:19:08,714
I'm not really super into that.
573
00:19:09,095 --> 00:19:10,375
And so those aren't the movies that I
574
00:19:10,375 --> 00:19:12,134
tend to enjoy the most. I love things
575
00:19:12,134 --> 00:19:13,815
that I can puzzle over and that I
576
00:19:13,815 --> 00:19:14,315
can,
577
00:19:14,694 --> 00:19:17,095
you know, rediscover even later and and see
578
00:19:17,095 --> 00:19:18,950
new layers and new meanings. You don't wanna
579
00:19:18,950 --> 00:19:20,250
lose the audience. And
580
00:19:20,789 --> 00:19:23,029
and and, you know, and certainly, this was
581
00:19:23,029 --> 00:19:24,309
a whole this was a very much a
582
00:19:24,309 --> 00:19:25,990
learning experience for me in that way because,
583
00:19:25,990 --> 00:19:27,190
you know, we went through a number of
584
00:19:27,190 --> 00:19:28,549
test screenings, and we found out where we
585
00:19:28,549 --> 00:19:30,329
were losing the audience and where we weren't.
586
00:19:30,575 --> 00:19:32,255
And there was also an acceptance on my
587
00:19:32,255 --> 00:19:34,095
part and on the studio's part even that,
588
00:19:34,095 --> 00:19:36,255
you know what? Not not the entire audience
589
00:19:36,255 --> 00:19:37,474
is gonna get this one.
590
00:19:38,734 --> 00:19:40,414
That that tends to be a risk with
591
00:19:40,414 --> 00:19:43,474
sci fi anyway. Right. Sci fi famously
592
00:19:44,579 --> 00:19:45,880
has has an average
593
00:19:46,259 --> 00:19:48,419
for cinema score. Cinema score is how an
594
00:19:48,419 --> 00:19:50,339
audience rates it. You know, like, they do
595
00:19:50,339 --> 00:19:51,859
these polls, like, after they leave it. Like,
596
00:19:51,859 --> 00:19:53,160
how what do you rate the movie?
597
00:19:53,539 --> 00:19:54,039
And
598
00:19:54,419 --> 00:19:56,740
sci fi notoriously is always in the b
599
00:19:56,740 --> 00:19:58,865
range. Like, even something like inception,
600
00:19:59,164 --> 00:20:00,865
I think came in at a b plus,
601
00:20:01,005 --> 00:20:02,625
you know, instead of an a.
602
00:20:02,924 --> 00:20:04,445
And because there's always just a segment of
603
00:20:04,445 --> 00:20:06,684
the audience that just can't quite make that
604
00:20:06,684 --> 00:20:07,585
leap with you.
605
00:20:08,205 --> 00:20:10,125
So there was always an acceptance to that.
606
00:20:10,125 --> 00:20:12,225
Yeah. My wife actually used my novel.
607
00:20:12,830 --> 00:20:14,349
Yeah. She I I have a science fiction
608
00:20:14,349 --> 00:20:15,869
novel that I wrote. She tried to read
609
00:20:15,869 --> 00:20:17,330
it. And actually, the,
610
00:20:18,589 --> 00:20:20,130
the dedication is,
611
00:20:22,190 --> 00:20:23,309
let's see if I can get the wording
612
00:20:23,309 --> 00:20:25,070
here. Here it is. For Pam, even if
613
00:20:25,070 --> 00:20:26,430
it's not the kind of thing she typically
614
00:20:26,430 --> 00:20:28,194
read, she encouraged me to write it, and
615
00:20:28,194 --> 00:20:29,815
I hope she at least reads the dedication.
616
00:20:29,954 --> 00:20:32,674
So she she did get that far in
617
00:20:32,674 --> 00:20:34,855
the book. That's fantastic. But she just doesn't
618
00:20:34,994 --> 00:20:36,434
she just doesn't connect to that kind of
619
00:20:36,434 --> 00:20:38,355
thing. Yeah. Yeah. That's a lot easier for
620
00:20:38,355 --> 00:20:40,115
me to connect with stuff that she likes
621
00:20:40,115 --> 00:20:41,554
to watch than for her to connect to
622
00:20:41,554 --> 00:20:43,710
the things that I like to watch. Right.
623
00:20:43,850 --> 00:20:46,650
Right. No. And and for me, one of
624
00:20:46,650 --> 00:20:48,730
the one of the ways that I focused
625
00:20:48,730 --> 00:20:51,130
on bridging that gap, and and I think
626
00:20:51,130 --> 00:20:52,650
the reason that my wife, who isn't a
627
00:20:52,650 --> 00:20:54,890
fan of sci fi, actually does really love
628
00:20:55,049 --> 00:20:57,049
genuinely love this movie. She's my harshest critics,
629
00:20:57,049 --> 00:20:58,597
so she would definitely tell me if she
630
00:20:58,597 --> 00:21:00,805
didn't. But she genuinely loves the movie,
631
00:21:01,424 --> 00:21:02,325
and that's because
632
00:21:03,184 --> 00:21:04,484
more than the sci fi,
633
00:21:05,184 --> 00:21:06,945
I mean, I I focus so much on
634
00:21:06,945 --> 00:21:09,904
the emotional core on on Kevin and Molly.
635
00:21:09,904 --> 00:21:10,404
It's
636
00:21:10,705 --> 00:21:11,105
it's,
637
00:21:11,585 --> 00:21:13,265
if there can be such a thing, I
638
00:21:13,265 --> 00:21:15,309
think the shift succeeds as kind of a
639
00:21:15,309 --> 00:21:17,389
sci fi date movie where there is this
640
00:21:17,389 --> 00:21:17,889
really,
641
00:21:19,389 --> 00:21:21,230
focused romance kind of at the center of
642
00:21:21,230 --> 00:21:22,750
this whole thing. You know, I I I
643
00:21:22,750 --> 00:21:24,750
didn't shy away from that in the story
644
00:21:24,750 --> 00:21:26,909
and and really focusing on on the characters
645
00:21:26,909 --> 00:21:28,825
in that way. So I like I like
646
00:21:28,825 --> 00:21:30,444
to think of it as, you know, maybe
647
00:21:30,505 --> 00:21:32,424
maybe you hear it. And if you're not
648
00:21:32,424 --> 00:21:33,625
a sci fi fan, you think, well, that
649
00:21:33,625 --> 00:21:35,464
movie probably isn't for me. But what I
650
00:21:35,464 --> 00:21:38,105
have heard over and over again from people
651
00:21:38,105 --> 00:21:40,024
is that those who have taken a chance
652
00:21:40,024 --> 00:21:42,284
on it, for whom that genre isn't necessarily
653
00:21:42,345 --> 00:21:43,005
their favorite,
654
00:21:43,399 --> 00:21:45,559
they really end up loving this movie. Those
655
00:21:45,559 --> 00:21:47,559
those that open themselves up to it, because
656
00:21:47,559 --> 00:21:49,559
it does have that emotional core where it's
657
00:21:49,559 --> 00:21:52,279
really founded on on this romance and and
658
00:21:52,279 --> 00:21:53,019
this relationship.
659
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:56,200
Now as far as your cast goes, the
660
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:57,075
the two leads,
661
00:21:57,634 --> 00:21:58,994
Kevin and Molly, I had never I don't
662
00:21:58,994 --> 00:22:00,375
think I've ever seen them before.
663
00:22:01,714 --> 00:22:04,274
But you you cast 2 of my favorite
664
00:22:04,274 --> 00:22:05,414
guys in there
665
00:22:05,714 --> 00:22:08,774
with, Sean Astin and, Neil McDonough.
666
00:22:09,474 --> 00:22:10,534
Right. And,
667
00:22:12,329 --> 00:22:14,410
Neil McDonough, I knew from a show called
668
00:22:14,410 --> 00:22:14,910
BoomTown,
669
00:22:15,369 --> 00:22:17,529
which is one of my favorite non sci
670
00:22:17,529 --> 00:22:19,690
fi TV shows of all time. I just
671
00:22:19,690 --> 00:22:21,849
love that show. Every episode was its own
672
00:22:21,849 --> 00:22:22,349
Rashomon.
673
00:22:22,970 --> 00:22:25,049
So every episode you follow the story and
674
00:22:25,049 --> 00:22:26,890
it just jumps from one character then to
675
00:22:26,890 --> 00:22:28,804
the next. You see the whole thing again
676
00:22:28,865 --> 00:22:30,625
from a new perspective, and then the next,
677
00:22:30,625 --> 00:22:31,825
you see the whole thing. And it just
678
00:22:31,825 --> 00:22:34,724
twists your perspective with every single episode.
679
00:22:35,265 --> 00:22:37,025
Oh, that's awesome. It was a little too
680
00:22:37,025 --> 00:22:39,184
much for the viewing public, I guess, because
681
00:22:39,184 --> 00:22:41,204
season 2, which lasted 3 episodes,
682
00:22:42,339 --> 00:22:43,559
they ditched that completely
683
00:22:43,859 --> 00:22:45,159
and went to more of your
684
00:22:45,700 --> 00:22:46,200
procedural
685
00:22:46,500 --> 00:22:48,419
kind of, law and order type of a
686
00:22:48,419 --> 00:22:48,919
show,
687
00:22:50,019 --> 00:22:52,339
and it it lasted 3 episodes. So and
688
00:22:52,339 --> 00:22:55,220
I watched those episodes. Abandon your premise. Like,
689
00:22:55,220 --> 00:22:57,914
you can't do that. Wow. I I I
690
00:22:57,914 --> 00:23:00,015
think that's That's crazy. Key to it was
691
00:23:00,714 --> 00:23:03,194
not enough people were able to follow and
692
00:23:03,194 --> 00:23:03,694
enjoy
693
00:23:04,234 --> 00:23:06,474
that whole premise that they had where because
694
00:23:06,474 --> 00:23:08,634
it would be you follow 1 cop as
695
00:23:08,634 --> 00:23:09,375
he's chasing
696
00:23:09,755 --> 00:23:11,990
a criminal. And then you follow the criminal.
697
00:23:12,049 --> 00:23:14,609
You see, like, the different perspective. And then
698
00:23:14,609 --> 00:23:16,769
you've I think, he played you know, God
699
00:23:16,769 --> 00:23:17,330
played the,
700
00:23:18,529 --> 00:23:20,369
believe he was a lawyer. He was, like,
701
00:23:20,369 --> 00:23:21,349
the city's attorney.
702
00:23:21,650 --> 00:23:22,869
Okay. Crosswitting attorney.
703
00:23:23,204 --> 00:23:25,605
And then and he was having affair with,
704
00:23:25,845 --> 00:23:26,424
a reporter.
705
00:23:26,964 --> 00:23:29,044
And then his wife is not and so
706
00:23:29,044 --> 00:23:30,964
those kinda your main cast were these cops,
707
00:23:30,964 --> 00:23:32,404
these lawyers, and then the people who are
708
00:23:32,404 --> 00:23:34,265
connected to their lives. And Uh-huh.
709
00:23:34,964 --> 00:23:36,990
That's how I first became aware of him,
710
00:23:36,990 --> 00:23:38,670
and I love that show so much. Then
711
00:23:38,670 --> 00:23:40,830
it's like, anything he's in, I'm like, I'm
712
00:23:40,830 --> 00:23:41,330
interested.
713
00:23:41,710 --> 00:23:42,910
Of course, then I go back and watch
714
00:23:42,910 --> 00:23:44,769
Star Trek First Contact, and
715
00:23:45,230 --> 00:23:46,910
he's he's on the bridge. Yeah. I'm like,
716
00:23:46,910 --> 00:23:49,125
oh, you made it. That's that's him. That's
717
00:23:49,125 --> 00:23:51,384
the guy I like. So is in everything.
718
00:23:51,445 --> 00:23:53,845
It's amazing. I'm watching Tulsa King right now.
719
00:23:53,845 --> 00:23:55,845
He's in that. You know? It's great. Been
720
00:23:55,845 --> 00:23:57,224
watching that. So yeah.
721
00:23:57,525 --> 00:24:00,005
No. It's a fun show. He's fantastic. And
722
00:24:00,005 --> 00:24:01,445
then and then, of course, from War of
723
00:24:01,445 --> 00:24:02,744
the Rings with with,
724
00:24:03,079 --> 00:24:04,460
Sean Astor. Yeah.
725
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,740
And then John Billingsley, another Star Trek actor.
726
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,440
So John's fantastic in the movie. He's so
727
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,839
much fun. Yeah. No. He he's great. I
728
00:24:12,839 --> 00:24:13,740
mean, he's funny
729
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:15,880
because of the way he plays the character.
730
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:17,765
But then before the end, there's some stuff
731
00:24:17,765 --> 00:24:20,085
going on, and I'm, like, genuinely terrified for
732
00:24:20,085 --> 00:24:20,964
him. Like, this is
733
00:24:21,845 --> 00:24:23,944
oh, no. Like, the funny guy who's
734
00:24:24,244 --> 00:24:24,744
yeah.
735
00:24:25,045 --> 00:24:26,025
Yeah. So,
736
00:24:26,724 --> 00:24:28,724
but your 2 leads, where did how did
737
00:24:28,724 --> 00:24:30,484
you connect with them? Was there a casting
738
00:24:30,484 --> 00:24:33,909
call kinda thing? Or after No. So we
739
00:24:33,909 --> 00:24:35,909
we pretty much of our all of our
740
00:24:35,909 --> 00:24:38,230
top line casts were were offers. So it
741
00:24:38,230 --> 00:24:40,789
was just about Okay. You know, I'm such
742
00:24:40,789 --> 00:24:41,289
a
743
00:24:41,750 --> 00:24:44,785
student of film and television, and I'm pretty
744
00:24:44,785 --> 00:24:46,465
familiar. There's there's hardly an actor you can
745
00:24:46,465 --> 00:24:48,305
name that I don't have some familiarity with,
746
00:24:48,305 --> 00:24:49,684
at least. And so,
747
00:24:50,224 --> 00:24:51,285
Christopher Palaha,
748
00:24:51,664 --> 00:24:53,184
plays our Kevin, and he's one of these
749
00:24:53,184 --> 00:24:54,244
guys that has,
750
00:24:54,865 --> 00:24:56,545
been around for for a while and and
751
00:24:56,545 --> 00:24:57,984
been in a lot of my favorite things.
752
00:24:57,984 --> 00:25:00,339
He's he's, he had a recurring role on
753
00:25:00,339 --> 00:25:01,079
Mad Men.
754
00:25:01,859 --> 00:25:04,039
He was in, Wonder Woman 1984
755
00:25:04,339 --> 00:25:07,140
as as the guy whose body Chris Pine
756
00:25:07,140 --> 00:25:07,640
hijacks.
757
00:25:08,579 --> 00:25:10,519
So none of that movie is his fault,
758
00:25:10,659 --> 00:25:12,500
but, but he comes in at the end
759
00:25:12,500 --> 00:25:14,579
and gives gives us really that's the whole
760
00:25:14,579 --> 00:25:16,424
thing. Yeah. But but when he when he
761
00:25:16,424 --> 00:25:18,105
is a does get a chance to to
762
00:25:18,105 --> 00:25:20,025
be himself in that movie, he's he's pretty
763
00:25:20,025 --> 00:25:22,684
terrific. And he's also in, Jurassic World Dominion,
764
00:25:22,744 --> 00:25:23,244
and,
765
00:25:23,625 --> 00:25:25,065
and he he's just he's just done all
766
00:25:25,065 --> 00:25:26,365
kinds of things. And he's,
767
00:25:26,904 --> 00:25:28,184
he's done a lot. He's done he's done
768
00:25:28,184 --> 00:25:29,944
a few Hallmark things as well. So he's
769
00:25:29,944 --> 00:25:30,924
this really great,
770
00:25:31,519 --> 00:25:33,519
romantic leading man who can also do action
771
00:25:33,519 --> 00:25:35,759
and serious drama. He's he's just kinda Chris
772
00:25:35,759 --> 00:25:36,980
is kinda the whole package.
773
00:25:38,319 --> 00:25:40,559
And so when I became even more familiar
774
00:25:40,559 --> 00:25:43,539
with his work, through the casting process on
775
00:25:43,875 --> 00:25:44,615
the shift,
776
00:25:45,234 --> 00:25:46,914
I I soon as I saw his work,
777
00:25:46,914 --> 00:25:48,195
I was like, oh, that's our guy. That's
778
00:25:48,195 --> 00:25:51,174
our guy. And, and Chris gets to do
779
00:25:51,315 --> 00:25:53,394
everything in this movie. I mean, he is
780
00:25:53,394 --> 00:25:55,974
running. He is kissing. He is
781
00:25:56,410 --> 00:25:58,809
suffering and crying. I mean, he it's and
782
00:25:58,809 --> 00:26:00,009
in fact, if if you ever hear him
783
00:26:00,009 --> 00:26:01,930
talk about it, it's this was this was
784
00:26:01,930 --> 00:26:03,210
kind of his dream role a lot of
785
00:26:03,210 --> 00:26:05,049
ways just because it ticks so many boxes
786
00:26:05,049 --> 00:26:06,490
as an actor of things that he wanted
787
00:26:06,490 --> 00:26:07,150
to do.
788
00:26:07,609 --> 00:26:09,289
And he's in every scene of the movie,
789
00:26:09,289 --> 00:26:11,365
so it's it's really tremendous what he did
790
00:26:11,365 --> 00:26:12,825
and what he gave to the film.
791
00:26:13,445 --> 00:26:15,924
And then playing Molly is Elizabeth Tabish, and
792
00:26:15,924 --> 00:26:16,424
Elizabeth
793
00:26:16,964 --> 00:26:19,704
is, or Liz as as a caller.
794
00:26:20,325 --> 00:26:22,005
Everybody who knows her calls her.
795
00:26:22,884 --> 00:26:23,384
She
796
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,420
is also Mary Magdalene in The Chosen,
797
00:26:26,799 --> 00:26:29,200
series on the life of Christ, and she's
798
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,839
just a tremendous, tremendous factor. That's my Oh,
799
00:26:31,839 --> 00:26:33,539
you gotta you gotta check it out. Shame.
800
00:26:33,759 --> 00:26:35,920
No. It's incredible. It's it's so well done,
801
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,465
and she's so good in it. And, and
802
00:26:38,465 --> 00:26:41,265
she's actually her character gets the biggest spotlight
803
00:26:41,265 --> 00:26:43,045
in the very first episode of The Chosen
804
00:26:43,345 --> 00:26:45,505
is all about her and her character. And
805
00:26:45,505 --> 00:26:47,825
she's just she's terrific. And she brings so
806
00:26:47,825 --> 00:26:48,805
much to Molly,
807
00:26:49,505 --> 00:26:51,505
with, you know, with lot less screen time
808
00:26:51,505 --> 00:26:53,960
than Chris, but, but really, you feel that
809
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:55,259
connection between them.
810
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:58,200
Well and I guess so I have seen
811
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,279
Chris in a lot of things, like, just
812
00:27:00,279 --> 00:27:02,279
stuff you're mentioning. Like, I've Yeah. Seen him
813
00:27:02,279 --> 00:27:03,340
there. I just haven't
814
00:27:03,799 --> 00:27:05,720
didn't realize that's who I was seeing. But
815
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,355
Right. He carries this movie. I mean, it's
816
00:27:08,515 --> 00:27:10,054
it's on his shoulders. And
817
00:27:10,355 --> 00:27:12,115
I mean, without again, I don't wanna spoil
818
00:27:12,115 --> 00:27:13,414
too much, but it is a multiverse
819
00:27:14,035 --> 00:27:15,815
story. And so there are opportunities
820
00:27:16,115 --> 00:27:17,414
to see other versions
821
00:27:18,275 --> 00:27:19,654
of of some of the characters.
822
00:27:20,194 --> 00:27:20,434
And,
823
00:27:21,380 --> 00:27:22,680
there's the one scene
824
00:27:23,140 --> 00:27:24,980
for the middle that I I don't wanna
825
00:27:24,980 --> 00:27:26,920
spoil at all, but he just
826
00:27:28,500 --> 00:27:29,480
it's a really
827
00:27:29,860 --> 00:27:32,980
interesting performance of that goes against type of
828
00:27:32,980 --> 00:27:35,320
what his character is. Yeah. Yeah.
829
00:27:36,034 --> 00:27:38,034
That we're actually following, the the version of
830
00:27:38,034 --> 00:27:39,255
Kevin that we're following.
831
00:27:40,755 --> 00:27:41,554
Yeah. It was
832
00:27:41,954 --> 00:27:43,394
I'm just rewatching it. I was like, oh,
833
00:27:43,394 --> 00:27:44,835
I forgot about the scene. This is so
834
00:27:44,835 --> 00:27:45,815
cool. Yeah.
835
00:27:46,274 --> 00:27:48,674
And Chris loved that stuff. He loved tearing
836
00:27:48,674 --> 00:27:51,150
into that. And, there's there's some things he
837
00:27:51,150 --> 00:27:52,289
does in that scene.
838
00:27:52,990 --> 00:27:54,750
If if you're if you're referring to the
839
00:27:54,750 --> 00:27:56,190
one I think you are, there's there's a
840
00:27:56,190 --> 00:27:58,269
particular point in which he just starts laughing,
841
00:27:58,269 --> 00:27:59,730
and that wasn't in the script.
842
00:28:00,109 --> 00:28:02,049
And it was an idea he had,
843
00:28:02,424 --> 00:28:04,424
and I just wasn't really sure that was
844
00:28:04,424 --> 00:28:05,945
gonna work, but he was so passionate about
845
00:28:05,945 --> 00:28:07,144
it. I was like, alright, go for it.
846
00:28:07,144 --> 00:28:09,224
We'll we'll we'll fix it in editing if
847
00:28:09,224 --> 00:28:10,664
it doesn't work. And it ended up being
848
00:28:10,664 --> 00:28:11,865
one of my favorite things in the movie
849
00:28:11,865 --> 00:28:15,384
where he just just starts laughing spontaneously in
850
00:28:15,384 --> 00:28:17,049
the middle of this scene. And it's so
851
00:28:17,049 --> 00:28:19,230
fantastic. It's so much fun. But, yeah, Chris
852
00:28:19,369 --> 00:28:21,309
Chris really brought a lot to the film.
853
00:28:22,410 --> 00:28:22,910
So,
854
00:28:23,450 --> 00:28:25,289
I mean, on the on the creative side
855
00:28:25,289 --> 00:28:26,990
then Mhmm. Movie's done.
856
00:28:27,450 --> 00:28:29,049
You've you've put a bow on it. It's
857
00:28:29,049 --> 00:28:30,349
been released in theaters.
858
00:28:31,195 --> 00:28:33,835
How did you how has the response been?
859
00:28:33,835 --> 00:28:35,835
How have you felt about the response, and
860
00:28:35,835 --> 00:28:37,934
how people are responding to you about it?
861
00:28:38,075 --> 00:28:40,475
Well, it's always difficult when you take your
862
00:28:40,475 --> 00:28:41,755
baby and you put it out into the
863
00:28:41,755 --> 00:28:43,994
world because you lose total control over it.
864
00:28:43,994 --> 00:28:44,315
And,
865
00:28:45,140 --> 00:28:47,059
and I always knew that this film was
866
00:28:47,059 --> 00:28:47,880
gonna generate
867
00:28:48,180 --> 00:28:49,559
some interesting responses.
868
00:28:49,940 --> 00:28:51,860
And I kind of anticipated there'd be the
869
00:28:51,860 --> 00:28:54,259
initial response, and then there'd be the response
870
00:28:54,259 --> 00:28:55,000
over time.
871
00:28:55,620 --> 00:28:58,019
And, you know, and so I think we're
872
00:28:58,019 --> 00:28:59,380
still kind of in the middle of the
873
00:28:59,380 --> 00:28:59,880
beginning
874
00:29:00,565 --> 00:29:02,725
of of the response to the shift. I
875
00:29:02,725 --> 00:29:04,965
I heard it said recently that, it's not
876
00:29:04,965 --> 00:29:06,805
until about 10 years after movie comes out
877
00:29:06,805 --> 00:29:08,664
that you really understand what it is
878
00:29:09,045 --> 00:29:10,884
and and what its reputation is and what
879
00:29:10,884 --> 00:29:12,884
it's going to be, whether it fades into
880
00:29:12,884 --> 00:29:15,580
obscurity or it becomes appreciated more. And, of
881
00:29:15,580 --> 00:29:17,259
course, the hope is is that things become
882
00:29:17,259 --> 00:29:18,799
even more appreciated over
883
00:29:19,100 --> 00:29:20,000
time. But,
884
00:29:20,380 --> 00:29:23,180
in its initial release, it was met with,
885
00:29:23,580 --> 00:29:25,680
a lot of passion, a lot of passion
886
00:29:26,140 --> 00:29:28,299
from the people who who went out to
887
00:29:28,299 --> 00:29:29,440
see it in the theater
888
00:29:29,914 --> 00:29:32,714
and, and were excited about seeing something really
889
00:29:32,714 --> 00:29:33,694
different and new.
890
00:29:34,474 --> 00:29:36,154
And that's the thing that I knew stepping
891
00:29:36,154 --> 00:29:38,315
into it, that that it really was and
892
00:29:38,315 --> 00:29:39,595
that and that it was really hard to
893
00:29:39,595 --> 00:29:40,634
get it. One of the reasons it was
894
00:29:40,634 --> 00:29:41,875
so hard to get it made and why
895
00:29:41,875 --> 00:29:43,950
it took so many years, because if you
896
00:29:43,950 --> 00:29:46,269
look at the landscape of films that deal
897
00:29:46,269 --> 00:29:47,089
with faith,
898
00:29:47,470 --> 00:29:50,429
you're not gonna find any science fiction films.
899
00:29:50,429 --> 00:29:52,029
I mean, I I maybe there's been 1
900
00:29:52,029 --> 00:29:53,470
or 2 over the years, but it's not
901
00:29:53,470 --> 00:29:55,390
really the go to. It's a very small
902
00:29:55,390 --> 00:29:58,029
handful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can't even think
903
00:29:58,029 --> 00:29:59,414
of any off the top of my head.
904
00:29:59,654 --> 00:30:00,154
But,
905
00:30:01,095 --> 00:30:02,234
it it one.
906
00:30:02,535 --> 00:30:04,055
Okay. Time changer. I don't know if you
907
00:30:04,055 --> 00:30:05,815
ever heard of it, but it's Oh, I
908
00:30:05,815 --> 00:30:07,755
think I have heard that came out, like,
909
00:30:08,375 --> 00:30:10,875
20 years ago or something like that. Maybe
910
00:30:10,934 --> 00:30:12,375
even a little more, maybe a little bit
911
00:30:12,375 --> 00:30:13,894
less, but, yeah, it's Okay. It's been a
912
00:30:13,894 --> 00:30:16,490
long, long, long time since that thing. So
913
00:30:16,490 --> 00:30:18,909
needless to say, you know, I think the
914
00:30:18,970 --> 00:30:20,029
faith audience
915
00:30:20,649 --> 00:30:22,009
and, look, I don't even like to call
916
00:30:22,009 --> 00:30:23,849
the shift faith based. I think that's that
917
00:30:23,849 --> 00:30:25,450
has so much stigma attached to it, and
918
00:30:25,450 --> 00:30:26,569
that's not really how I ever thought of
919
00:30:26,569 --> 00:30:27,609
the film. I thought of the film as
920
00:30:27,609 --> 00:30:28,990
a science fiction film first.
921
00:30:29,464 --> 00:30:31,384
And then within science fiction, I feel like
922
00:30:31,384 --> 00:30:33,065
you can you can deal with anything. You
923
00:30:33,065 --> 00:30:35,865
could talk about anything through science fiction because
924
00:30:35,865 --> 00:30:38,424
science fiction genre opens you up to metaphors
925
00:30:38,424 --> 00:30:41,065
and allegories and and storytelling devices that you
926
00:30:41,065 --> 00:30:43,349
don't have elsewhere. I mean, Star Trek famously
927
00:30:43,349 --> 00:30:45,109
used it to talk about the social issues
928
00:30:45,109 --> 00:30:47,029
of the day back in the sixties and
929
00:30:47,029 --> 00:30:48,490
continues to do that now
930
00:30:48,789 --> 00:30:50,789
because you could talk about anything with science
931
00:30:50,789 --> 00:30:51,289
fiction.
932
00:30:51,670 --> 00:30:53,750
So why not talk about faith? It's just
933
00:30:53,750 --> 00:30:56,069
one more thing that that that can fit
934
00:30:56,069 --> 00:30:56,569
into
935
00:30:57,355 --> 00:30:59,755
the genre of science fiction. And so for
936
00:30:59,755 --> 00:31:01,994
me, making the shift that that's that's how
937
00:31:01,994 --> 00:31:03,755
I thought of it. It's why not? Why
938
00:31:03,755 --> 00:31:04,654
not do this?
939
00:31:04,954 --> 00:31:06,875
And for some people, the answer is, well,
940
00:31:06,875 --> 00:31:09,034
because God is not fictional. And how dare
941
00:31:09,034 --> 00:31:12,509
you? How dare you mix, you know, science
942
00:31:12,509 --> 00:31:14,450
fiction into into faith?
943
00:31:14,910 --> 00:31:16,509
And but I think that's a minority of
944
00:31:16,509 --> 00:31:18,509
the audience. Most of the audience, most of
945
00:31:18,509 --> 00:31:20,590
the people, I I believe, who found out
946
00:31:20,590 --> 00:31:22,750
about the film and discovered it, they wanted
947
00:31:22,750 --> 00:31:24,029
to give it a chance. And those that
948
00:31:24,029 --> 00:31:25,309
did and went in with open hearts and
949
00:31:25,309 --> 00:31:27,285
open minds, they found something that they're really
950
00:31:27,285 --> 00:31:29,045
about. Now we had our detractors as well,
951
00:31:29,045 --> 00:31:31,785
you know, both critically and and otherwise, theologically
952
00:31:31,924 --> 00:31:33,625
speaking. We certainly had that.
953
00:31:34,805 --> 00:31:37,525
But I think with anything new, it's it's
954
00:31:37,525 --> 00:31:39,785
it's what it is and and it's appreciation.
955
00:31:40,005 --> 00:31:41,445
You know, I think that is something that
956
00:31:41,445 --> 00:31:44,740
occurs more over time than initially. But, certainly,
957
00:31:44,980 --> 00:31:46,740
we did we did well. The the film
958
00:31:46,740 --> 00:31:48,500
did not flop. It did well, and it
959
00:31:48,500 --> 00:31:50,279
continues to to amass.
960
00:31:50,900 --> 00:31:52,500
I know I've I've I'm painting this dour
961
00:31:52,500 --> 00:31:54,259
picture. I just I like to put things
962
00:31:54,259 --> 00:31:56,180
in the proper context. It it it was
963
00:31:56,180 --> 00:31:58,724
not a flop. It did well. And, and
964
00:31:58,724 --> 00:32:01,285
it's and it's continuing to amass, more and
965
00:32:01,285 --> 00:32:03,285
more more people and following, and and that
966
00:32:03,285 --> 00:32:04,565
was one of the reasons why I wanted
967
00:32:04,565 --> 00:32:06,085
to to do the novel. I just felt
968
00:32:06,085 --> 00:32:08,085
like as audiences were coming in and people
969
00:32:08,085 --> 00:32:08,585
were
970
00:32:08,964 --> 00:32:10,105
wanting more,
971
00:32:10,565 --> 00:32:11,924
that's that's the thing I get a lot.
972
00:32:11,924 --> 00:32:14,580
People have questions, and and there's things that
973
00:32:14,580 --> 00:32:16,099
they they wanna know more about. And I
974
00:32:16,099 --> 00:32:17,700
think that's true of any great science fiction
975
00:32:17,700 --> 00:32:19,140
story. You know, we just want more of
976
00:32:19,140 --> 00:32:21,059
it. There's there's a whole world that's been
977
00:32:21,059 --> 00:32:22,500
built, whether you're talking about back to the
978
00:32:22,500 --> 00:32:24,119
future or star wars or whatever.
979
00:32:24,500 --> 00:32:26,340
The science fiction writer has to build a
980
00:32:26,340 --> 00:32:26,840
world,
981
00:32:27,325 --> 00:32:28,545
in which to inhabit
982
00:32:28,845 --> 00:32:31,325
the the story and and a world built
983
00:32:31,325 --> 00:32:33,664
on rules and and imagination.
984
00:32:34,845 --> 00:32:37,404
And of course of course, like every other
985
00:32:37,404 --> 00:32:39,005
sci fi movie out there, the shift was
986
00:32:39,005 --> 00:32:39,505
built,
987
00:32:40,130 --> 00:32:40,950
with a world,
988
00:32:41,809 --> 00:32:44,210
that's much bigger than could be captured on
989
00:32:44,210 --> 00:32:45,970
the screen. And so that was one of
990
00:32:45,970 --> 00:32:47,569
my reasons for for wanting to write the
991
00:32:47,569 --> 00:32:49,169
novel, is to give people that more they
992
00:32:49,169 --> 00:32:51,409
kept on asking me for. I mean, there's
993
00:32:51,490 --> 00:32:53,105
I don't know how many Twilight Zone episodes
994
00:32:53,105 --> 00:32:54,784
you could look at or even Star Trek
995
00:32:54,784 --> 00:32:56,085
episodes or, you know,
996
00:32:56,865 --> 00:32:58,784
almost any of those episodic kind of things
997
00:32:58,784 --> 00:32:59,284
where
998
00:32:59,744 --> 00:33:00,484
at the end,
999
00:33:01,265 --> 00:33:03,585
there could be a lot more. But we've
1000
00:33:03,585 --> 00:33:06,710
only got 45 minutes or 22 minutes to
1001
00:33:06,710 --> 00:33:07,609
tell the story.
1002
00:33:08,390 --> 00:33:08,890
And
1003
00:33:09,190 --> 00:33:10,869
and you talk about the short feeling like
1004
00:33:10,869 --> 00:33:12,230
it may be ended on a cliffhanger, but
1005
00:33:12,230 --> 00:33:14,150
that's how it was intended. Right. Because, you
1006
00:33:14,150 --> 00:33:15,509
know, I mean, it's a short. And so
1007
00:33:15,509 --> 00:33:17,430
you you tell the story you wanna tell,
1008
00:33:17,430 --> 00:33:18,089
and then
1009
00:33:18,390 --> 00:33:20,230
and with Twilight Zone, you get to that
1010
00:33:20,230 --> 00:33:22,304
punch line. And then what is gonna happen
1011
00:33:22,304 --> 00:33:24,304
next to that guy? That's what the punch
1012
00:33:24,304 --> 00:33:24,964
line is.
1013
00:33:25,424 --> 00:33:27,825
Yeah. You you can make your imagine, but
1014
00:33:27,825 --> 00:33:29,744
that's you know, imagine what's gonna happen to
1015
00:33:29,744 --> 00:33:31,184
this guy who loves to read but dropped
1016
00:33:31,184 --> 00:33:33,345
his glasses, and there's no one, you know,
1017
00:33:33,345 --> 00:33:35,505
that is the apocalypse. You know? You could
1018
00:33:35,505 --> 00:33:37,079
tell the story of the guy trying to
1019
00:33:37,079 --> 00:33:38,519
find more glasses. You could tell the story
1020
00:33:38,519 --> 00:33:40,700
of the you end it on that emotional,
1021
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:42,940
punchline. And,
1022
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:45,900
this though I mean, absolutely, the film,
1023
00:33:46,839 --> 00:33:47,980
it was not unsatisfying.
1024
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:49,339
Like, it wasn't
1025
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,154
like, it was a satisfying conclusion for sure.
1026
00:33:53,275 --> 00:33:55,195
But I am curious because you do have
1027
00:33:55,195 --> 00:33:56,654
this this book coming out
1028
00:33:57,195 --> 00:34:00,255
Mhmm. Alongside so right now, you can watch,
1029
00:34:00,715 --> 00:34:03,695
watch the shift screening on Angel Studios. Right?
1030
00:34:04,154 --> 00:34:06,315
Yeah. It's, the I on the Angel app
1031
00:34:06,315 --> 00:34:07,674
as a member of the guild, you can
1032
00:34:07,674 --> 00:34:10,449
watch it. It's also on Amazon, YouTube, Apple
1033
00:34:10,449 --> 00:34:12,289
TV. You can rent it, and, and then
1034
00:34:12,289 --> 00:34:13,809
we have it on disc as well. And
1035
00:34:13,809 --> 00:34:15,409
then on on Blu ray and and Yeah.
1036
00:34:15,409 --> 00:34:17,109
I I have the Blu ray DVD combo.
1037
00:34:17,170 --> 00:34:18,549
And Awesome. Yeah.
1038
00:34:19,969 --> 00:34:21,909
Yeah. But then it's also coming out
1039
00:34:22,315 --> 00:34:24,815
soon. Again, rerelease with extra material
1040
00:34:25,594 --> 00:34:28,755
a lot. Yeah. And the book. So Yes.
1041
00:34:29,114 --> 00:34:31,375
The book fascinates me because usually,
1042
00:34:31,994 --> 00:34:34,155
the tie in novel comes in at the
1043
00:34:34,155 --> 00:34:37,089
same time as the movie. Yeah. Yeah. Often,
1044
00:34:37,089 --> 00:34:38,690
it's written by some other guy. You know,
1045
00:34:38,690 --> 00:34:41,089
Alan Dean Foster, you know, he's he's the
1046
00:34:41,089 --> 00:34:43,089
guy, you know, that your persona how much
1047
00:34:43,089 --> 00:34:44,449
he's writing right now. I think he did
1048
00:34:44,449 --> 00:34:46,849
a Star Trek thing recently. But Mhmm. But
1049
00:34:46,849 --> 00:34:47,349
he
1050
00:34:47,650 --> 00:34:49,409
so many books I was looking at recently,
1051
00:34:49,409 --> 00:34:50,784
and it's like, oh, he did the black
1052
00:34:50,784 --> 00:34:52,545
hole. Oh, he did alien. Oh, he did
1053
00:34:52,545 --> 00:34:54,224
this one. Oh, he did that one. He
1054
00:34:54,224 --> 00:34:55,505
really is the guy for that, isn't he?
1055
00:34:55,505 --> 00:34:57,425
Yeah. You're right. Yeah. Dark Star, even if
1056
00:34:57,425 --> 00:34:59,184
you're familiar with the movie Dark Star. No.
1057
00:34:59,184 --> 00:35:02,005
I'm not. It's a cheesy sci fi movie.
1058
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,859
It was John Carpenter's first directorial thing,
1059
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,259
that he directed Oh, wow. In school,
1060
00:35:08,639 --> 00:35:10,000
but then they got picked up by a
1061
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:11,679
studio and shot more scenes to make it
1062
00:35:11,679 --> 00:35:13,059
so it could be released theatrically.
1063
00:35:14,559 --> 00:35:16,819
Dan Albanian was involved in it.
1064
00:35:17,945 --> 00:35:19,864
John Carpenter. There's a handful of other people
1065
00:35:19,864 --> 00:35:21,784
who, like, their that's where they got got
1066
00:35:21,784 --> 00:35:22,525
their start
1067
00:35:22,985 --> 00:35:24,525
in some ways. Well,
1068
00:35:25,224 --> 00:35:26,925
Alan Dean Foster wrote this
1069
00:35:27,304 --> 00:35:29,644
book that actually fleshes out the jokes
1070
00:35:29,949 --> 00:35:32,429
and, like, takes these Uh-huh. Moments. It's, like,
1071
00:35:32,429 --> 00:35:33,710
just supposed to be a little goofy, a
1072
00:35:33,710 --> 00:35:35,550
little silly, and he's like, I'm gonna make
1073
00:35:35,550 --> 00:35:37,550
it make sense for science fiction. And, like,
1074
00:35:37,550 --> 00:35:39,710
okay. And it did. It worked. You know?
1075
00:35:39,710 --> 00:35:41,809
I just That's amazing. Really read it. So,
1076
00:35:42,590 --> 00:35:43,410
but you
1077
00:35:44,224 --> 00:35:46,304
did it yourself. You were able to and
1078
00:35:46,304 --> 00:35:48,385
you expanded it yourself, which is a whole
1079
00:35:48,385 --> 00:35:49,284
different way.
1080
00:35:50,065 --> 00:35:52,385
I mean, it's not Michael Crichton taking his
1081
00:35:52,385 --> 00:35:54,144
novel and turning it into a movie. It's
1082
00:35:54,144 --> 00:35:56,759
it's you taking your movie and expanding into
1083
00:35:56,759 --> 00:35:57,839
a novel. So tell me a little bit
1084
00:35:57,839 --> 00:35:59,780
about why you wanted to do that and,
1085
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,400
what you were trying to accomplish, and did
1086
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,139
you feel you accomplished it with with writing?
1087
00:36:05,679 --> 00:36:08,559
Yeah. So I started writing the novel around
1088
00:36:08,559 --> 00:36:10,335
the time the Blu ray was coming out.
1089
00:36:10,335 --> 00:36:11,554
So that would have been,
1090
00:36:12,255 --> 00:36:13,934
let's see. It's November right now. So this
1091
00:36:13,934 --> 00:36:14,414
was, like,
1092
00:36:15,054 --> 00:36:17,155
late February, early March of this year.
1093
00:36:18,494 --> 00:36:20,175
And so the movie had already been released.
1094
00:36:20,175 --> 00:36:22,094
It was wrapping up its theatrical run. It
1095
00:36:22,094 --> 00:36:24,355
was just getting into the international territories.
1096
00:36:25,230 --> 00:36:26,769
And I just
1097
00:36:27,309 --> 00:36:27,809
I
1098
00:36:28,349 --> 00:36:30,050
you would think after doing
1099
00:36:30,750 --> 00:36:32,670
well, actually the shift started as a short
1100
00:36:32,670 --> 00:36:35,230
story that I wrote back in 2006, believe
1101
00:36:35,230 --> 00:36:36,750
it or not. So that was in version
1102
00:36:36,750 --> 00:36:39,405
number 1, version number 2 was, you know,
1103
00:36:39,405 --> 00:36:41,105
turning it into a short film,
1104
00:36:41,565 --> 00:36:43,565
and then version number 3 was turning into
1105
00:36:43,565 --> 00:36:45,164
a feature film. And you think after all
1106
00:36:45,164 --> 00:36:46,844
that, I would be finally done with this
1107
00:36:46,844 --> 00:36:48,525
story. And I certainly thought that I was.
1108
00:36:48,525 --> 00:36:50,285
I never imagined I would turn it into
1109
00:36:50,285 --> 00:36:50,945
a novel.
1110
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:53,320
But as I was sitting there, you know,
1111
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,000
a few months after it had been released
1112
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:56,300
in the theaters, I just
1113
00:36:56,599 --> 00:36:58,039
I just felt like there was more. I
1114
00:36:58,119 --> 00:36:59,639
and I and I couldn't shake it, and
1115
00:36:59,639 --> 00:37:00,300
I just
1116
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:02,840
I just I I felt like there was
1117
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,239
another expression of this story that and I
1118
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:07,505
just needed to get it done. And,
1119
00:37:08,284 --> 00:37:10,844
and it surprised me, but I have learned
1120
00:37:10,844 --> 00:37:12,364
because it's how the shift came about in
1121
00:37:12,364 --> 00:37:13,804
the first place. I have learned that when
1122
00:37:13,804 --> 00:37:15,404
I have those feelings, I gotta follow them,
1123
00:37:15,404 --> 00:37:17,025
and I gotta see where they take me.
1124
00:37:17,404 --> 00:37:19,644
And so I I wrote the novel over
1125
00:37:19,644 --> 00:37:20,784
the next 2 months,
1126
00:37:21,969 --> 00:37:24,289
in secret. I actually did it completely in
1127
00:37:24,289 --> 00:37:25,650
secret. I didn't tell the studio I was
1128
00:37:25,650 --> 00:37:26,930
doing it. I didn't even tell my wife
1129
00:37:26,930 --> 00:37:28,130
I was doing this. She knew I was
1130
00:37:28,130 --> 00:37:29,329
on my laptop a little bit more than
1131
00:37:29,329 --> 00:37:31,010
usual, but she had absolutely no idea what
1132
00:37:31,010 --> 00:37:31,750
I was doing.
1133
00:37:32,289 --> 00:37:32,789
And,
1134
00:37:33,855 --> 00:37:34,355
and
1135
00:37:34,815 --> 00:37:37,135
I and I did it, and I was
1136
00:37:37,135 --> 00:37:39,015
able to do it in a in a
1137
00:37:39,015 --> 00:37:40,974
in a completely different way than I think
1138
00:37:40,974 --> 00:37:41,875
somebody who
1139
00:37:42,255 --> 00:37:44,014
didn't write the movie would be able to
1140
00:37:44,014 --> 00:37:44,514
do.
1141
00:37:45,215 --> 00:37:47,849
Because in my head, I've got 27 versions
1142
00:37:47,849 --> 00:37:49,609
of this of of the script in my
1143
00:37:49,609 --> 00:37:52,589
head, and I've also got about 21 versions
1144
00:37:52,889 --> 00:37:54,190
of the movie that we edited.
1145
00:37:54,809 --> 00:37:57,049
And in in all of those different versions,
1146
00:37:57,049 --> 00:37:59,289
there's so much material there that never made
1147
00:37:59,289 --> 00:38:00,190
it to the screen.
1148
00:38:01,055 --> 00:38:03,295
And then even outside of that material, there's
1149
00:38:03,295 --> 00:38:04,275
so many ideas
1150
00:38:05,135 --> 00:38:07,695
and and things that I never put down
1151
00:38:07,695 --> 00:38:09,315
on the page or in the movie.
1152
00:38:09,695 --> 00:38:12,035
And so, you know, as the writer director,
1153
00:38:12,095 --> 00:38:13,235
I have this unique
1154
00:38:13,934 --> 00:38:14,434
position
1155
00:38:15,010 --> 00:38:16,690
to where I was able to write the
1156
00:38:16,690 --> 00:38:17,670
book very quickly
1157
00:38:17,970 --> 00:38:19,829
and with a whole lot more detail,
1158
00:38:21,170 --> 00:38:22,230
confident detail,
1159
00:38:22,690 --> 00:38:25,349
and a whole lot more, added stuff,
1160
00:38:25,970 --> 00:38:27,670
scenes that are totally new,
1161
00:38:28,784 --> 00:38:29,605
that fit
1162
00:38:30,065 --> 00:38:31,824
right in to the to the world that's
1163
00:38:31,824 --> 00:38:32,484
been built,
1164
00:38:33,184 --> 00:38:34,144
and that really,
1165
00:38:35,344 --> 00:38:37,984
enhance the movie you've seen without contradicting it,
1166
00:38:37,984 --> 00:38:39,664
to be honest. Like, you could you could
1167
00:38:39,664 --> 00:38:41,425
fold in everything that's in that book. You
1168
00:38:41,425 --> 00:38:42,704
could fold it into the movie, and there
1169
00:38:42,704 --> 00:38:44,460
would there would be no problem,
1170
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:45,420
essentially.
1171
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:47,180
So
1172
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:49,800
it it it was so fun to do
1173
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:50,300
it.
1174
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:52,280
I I hadn't written a book in a
1175
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:53,880
while. I've written a few books, but I
1176
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,025
hadn't written anything like that in a while.
1177
00:38:56,105 --> 00:38:57,304
And so it was really fun to get
1178
00:38:57,304 --> 00:38:59,244
back and kind of exercise those muscles,
1179
00:38:59,625 --> 00:39:00,764
but then to also,
1180
00:39:02,184 --> 00:39:04,344
to do it for this story and and
1181
00:39:04,344 --> 00:39:06,105
to do things that I think are gonna
1182
00:39:06,105 --> 00:39:08,264
really surprise people. For example, one of the
1183
00:39:08,264 --> 00:39:10,210
things in the movie that happens, and you
1184
00:39:10,210 --> 00:39:11,890
alluded to it earlier, is that when you
1185
00:39:11,890 --> 00:39:13,829
first see Molly and Kevin meet,
1186
00:39:14,130 --> 00:39:16,530
there's kind of this this these these flash
1187
00:39:16,530 --> 00:39:18,369
forwards where you kind of see glimpses of
1188
00:39:18,369 --> 00:39:19,110
their relationship.
1189
00:39:19,890 --> 00:39:22,230
Well, in the book, I made that 2
1190
00:39:22,530 --> 00:39:23,349
entire chapters.
1191
00:39:23,985 --> 00:39:27,025
So we cover the breadth of their entire
1192
00:39:27,025 --> 00:39:27,525
relationship
1193
00:39:27,825 --> 00:39:29,285
over the course of 2 chapters
1194
00:39:29,825 --> 00:39:32,005
year by year. It's a 10 year relationship,
1195
00:39:32,065 --> 00:39:33,585
and then I'm able to mark out those
1196
00:39:33,585 --> 00:39:34,945
years and say, this is what happened to
1197
00:39:34,945 --> 00:39:36,305
your 1. This is what happened to your
1198
00:39:36,305 --> 00:39:38,239
2. And so we take them from that
1199
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,719
meet cute all the way to where to
1200
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,039
the moment when when Kevin is take taken
1201
00:39:43,039 --> 00:39:44,980
away to another world. And you see,
1202
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:47,859
the great love they have for each other,
1203
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,945
the challenges they faced, and ultimately, what deteriorated
1204
00:39:50,945 --> 00:39:53,525
their relationship and how it deteriorated their relationship
1205
00:39:53,585 --> 00:39:55,985
and how they struggled to rescue it, but
1206
00:39:55,985 --> 00:39:57,585
but were having a really hard time doing
1207
00:39:57,585 --> 00:39:59,985
that. And it was so great to go
1208
00:39:59,985 --> 00:40:01,905
into those two chapters, which none of which
1209
00:40:01,905 --> 00:40:03,985
is sci fi. Like, there's nothing science fiction
1210
00:40:03,985 --> 00:40:05,844
about anything, any of their relationship.
1211
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:08,559
And that was so satisfying. And then later
1212
00:40:08,559 --> 00:40:09,760
on in the in the book, I was
1213
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:11,139
able to do things like,
1214
00:40:11,599 --> 00:40:12,960
you know, in the original conception of the
1215
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:14,559
movie, original edits of the movie, you know,
1216
00:40:14,559 --> 00:40:15,059
Rajeet,
1217
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,460
who is this person that Kevin meets,
1218
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:18,980
in the course of the story,
1219
00:40:20,295 --> 00:40:22,375
they don't have a really deep relationship in
1220
00:40:22,375 --> 00:40:24,135
the movie. But in in the original conception
1221
00:40:24,135 --> 00:40:25,175
of the film, they did. And so I
1222
00:40:25,175 --> 00:40:26,375
was able to put that back in, you
1223
00:40:26,375 --> 00:40:27,734
know, where they have more of a friendship
1224
00:40:27,734 --> 00:40:28,714
and more interaction.
1225
00:40:29,255 --> 00:40:30,934
And then there's things in the multiverse. In
1226
00:40:30,934 --> 00:40:31,594
the multiverse,
1227
00:40:31,974 --> 00:40:33,894
there is some traveling through the multiverse in
1228
00:40:33,894 --> 00:40:36,349
the film. We go to, you know,
1229
00:40:36,809 --> 00:40:38,889
4 or 5 different worlds. Well, I was
1230
00:40:38,889 --> 00:40:41,289
able to easily triple that, you know, in
1231
00:40:41,289 --> 00:40:43,049
in in the book. And and now Kevin's
1232
00:40:43,049 --> 00:40:44,730
going to all kinds of different worlds and
1233
00:40:44,730 --> 00:40:47,210
seeing things that that I think are gonna
1234
00:40:47,210 --> 00:40:49,369
be really, really surprising to people who are
1235
00:40:49,369 --> 00:40:50,510
familiar with the movie.
1236
00:40:51,094 --> 00:40:52,934
And then and then doing all of these
1237
00:40:52,934 --> 00:40:53,434
things,
1238
00:40:54,054 --> 00:40:55,275
it lets me,
1239
00:40:56,534 --> 00:40:59,174
it it lets people in more on on
1240
00:40:59,174 --> 00:41:00,934
Kevin. The whole book is told from his
1241
00:41:00,934 --> 00:41:02,454
perspective. He's in every scene of the movie,
1242
00:41:02,454 --> 00:41:03,734
so it just made sense to do it
1243
00:41:03,734 --> 00:41:04,875
a first person narrative.
1244
00:41:05,409 --> 00:41:07,250
And so if he's a character that you're
1245
00:41:07,250 --> 00:41:08,690
wondering about, you know, why does he do
1246
00:41:08,690 --> 00:41:09,889
the things that he does and what are
1247
00:41:09,889 --> 00:41:11,170
his motivation? I mean, that's kind of the
1248
00:41:11,170 --> 00:41:13,250
fun of novelizations is kind of getting inside
1249
00:41:13,250 --> 00:41:14,389
the characters' heads.
1250
00:41:14,690 --> 00:41:16,769
Well, you get way into Kevin's head on
1251
00:41:16,769 --> 00:41:18,610
this, and that was really fun to do.
1252
00:41:18,610 --> 00:41:20,630
It was fun to explore that guy more,
1253
00:41:20,844 --> 00:41:22,045
find out a little bit more about his
1254
00:41:22,045 --> 00:41:24,684
background and and, you know, how he's processing
1255
00:41:24,684 --> 00:41:27,164
the things that the benefactor's telling him and
1256
00:41:27,164 --> 00:41:29,085
the conclusions that he reaches. And I think
1257
00:41:29,085 --> 00:41:31,105
for some members of the audience,
1258
00:41:31,724 --> 00:41:33,480
I think reading this book is gonna be
1259
00:41:33,559 --> 00:41:35,400
extremely enlightening. It's gonna it's gonna answer a
1260
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,260
lot of the questions they may have had,
1261
00:41:38,199 --> 00:41:39,739
in their watching of the film.
1262
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:41,639
And I had intended to have had the
1263
00:41:41,639 --> 00:41:43,079
book read by the time we did this
1264
00:41:43,079 --> 00:41:43,800
interview, but,
1265
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:46,039
I didn't get very far. And I read
1266
00:41:46,039 --> 00:41:48,184
the introduction, and that was fascinating to me
1267
00:41:48,184 --> 00:41:49,244
to see the course
1268
00:41:49,625 --> 00:41:51,164
of starting in a short story,
1269
00:41:51,465 --> 00:41:53,144
ending in a novel with a movie in
1270
00:41:53,144 --> 00:41:55,784
between. That's the Right. Your your your big
1271
00:41:55,784 --> 00:41:57,625
budget thing in the middle, but then you
1272
00:41:57,625 --> 00:41:59,679
have the kind of bookends there that that
1273
00:41:59,679 --> 00:42:01,199
are actually Well, and and I wanna say
1274
00:42:01,199 --> 00:42:03,199
about that. Like, in my approach to the
1275
00:42:03,199 --> 00:42:04,900
novel was to think about
1276
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:07,679
in the in the in the multival in
1277
00:42:07,679 --> 00:42:09,119
in the multiverse of it all, to think
1278
00:42:09,119 --> 00:42:11,360
about it in in terms of, well, what
1279
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,519
if there was an alternate reality where I
1280
00:42:13,519 --> 00:42:14,900
did write a book first
1281
00:42:15,324 --> 00:42:16,625
and then I made a movie?
1282
00:42:17,244 --> 00:42:19,164
So rather than just trying to adapt the
1283
00:42:19,164 --> 00:42:21,405
movie that everybody's seen, I tried to reverse
1284
00:42:21,405 --> 00:42:21,905
engineer
1285
00:42:22,204 --> 00:42:22,864
a book
1286
00:42:23,164 --> 00:42:25,724
that never existed but could have. So that's
1287
00:42:25,724 --> 00:42:27,644
that's how I think it reads. It reads
1288
00:42:27,644 --> 00:42:29,724
as, oh, it's gonna if somebody were to
1289
00:42:29,724 --> 00:42:30,785
read the book first,
1290
00:42:31,559 --> 00:42:32,460
they would assume
1291
00:42:33,559 --> 00:42:35,160
that, oh, yeah. The movie was based on
1292
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:36,519
the book even though it's the other way
1293
00:42:36,519 --> 00:42:38,360
around. I I wanted to give it that
1294
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,760
feel where there's enough in there that's different
1295
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:41,420
to new
1296
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:43,960
that you wouldn't you would assume, oh, yeah.
1297
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,255
The the book the movie definitely came second.
1298
00:42:46,255 --> 00:42:48,175
I think that's the experience you somebody would
1299
00:42:48,175 --> 00:42:50,195
have reading it without seeing the movie.
1300
00:42:50,735 --> 00:42:52,175
And I was inspired a little bit. I
1301
00:42:52,175 --> 00:42:53,235
did, take,
1302
00:42:54,735 --> 00:42:56,735
an old comic that I had done, like,
1303
00:42:56,735 --> 00:42:58,019
the first published book that I had done
1304
00:42:58,019 --> 00:42:59,699
and I I turned that into a a
1305
00:42:59,699 --> 00:43:01,059
novella. I don't know if I'm ever gonna
1306
00:43:01,059 --> 00:43:02,980
release it ever, but it's just fun to
1307
00:43:02,980 --> 00:43:04,739
revisit that old thing and and kinda take
1308
00:43:04,739 --> 00:43:06,440
it and like build it out into,
1309
00:43:07,300 --> 00:43:09,140
because of the comic book, 22 pages or
1310
00:43:09,140 --> 00:43:10,875
whatever. So there's not a lot of,
1311
00:43:11,594 --> 00:43:13,135
not a lot of meat there, the
1312
00:43:13,434 --> 00:43:15,355
storytelling meat or whatever, but to be able
1313
00:43:15,355 --> 00:43:16,954
to, like, fill in gaps and stuff like
1314
00:43:16,954 --> 00:43:18,795
that. So that was Yeah. That was fun
1315
00:43:18,795 --> 00:43:20,735
to No. It's a fun storytelling exercise.
1316
00:43:21,594 --> 00:43:23,114
Yeah. Yeah. And I'm all about right now,
1317
00:43:23,114 --> 00:43:26,339
I'm all about storytelling exercises. I'm I'm involved
1318
00:43:26,339 --> 00:43:28,019
in a thing where every month you get
1319
00:43:28,019 --> 00:43:29,619
a prompt and a word count and you're
1320
00:43:29,619 --> 00:43:31,859
supposed to craft a new story with that.
1321
00:43:31,859 --> 00:43:34,179
And, like, that has been so much fun.
1322
00:43:34,179 --> 00:43:34,679
And,
1323
00:43:35,059 --> 00:43:36,819
actually kinda leads into my my next kind
1324
00:43:36,819 --> 00:43:38,500
of question for you, which would be, what
1325
00:43:38,500 --> 00:43:40,594
kind of kind of advice do you have
1326
00:43:40,594 --> 00:43:41,074
for,
1327
00:43:41,714 --> 00:43:43,635
on this not just young creators, but creators
1328
00:43:43,635 --> 00:43:44,375
in general?
1329
00:43:45,635 --> 00:43:47,554
Like, what what would you say, like, if
1330
00:43:47,554 --> 00:43:49,734
so if you know someone is wanting to,
1331
00:43:50,835 --> 00:43:53,335
maybe get into filmmaking, but just someone who
1332
00:43:53,989 --> 00:43:56,869
is in interested in expressing themselves creatively, whether
1333
00:43:56,869 --> 00:43:59,909
it's, film or printed word or or whatever
1334
00:43:59,909 --> 00:44:01,349
it might be. But what kind of advice
1335
00:44:01,349 --> 00:44:02,949
or thoughts do you have for people who
1336
00:44:02,949 --> 00:44:03,449
are,
1337
00:44:04,230 --> 00:44:06,089
doing that that kind of creative endeavors?
1338
00:44:06,974 --> 00:44:09,375
Yeah. Well, like anybody who gives advice of
1339
00:44:09,375 --> 00:44:11,055
this kind, all I can really express is
1340
00:44:11,055 --> 00:44:13,555
what worked for me. You know, there's no
1341
00:44:13,614 --> 00:44:15,934
one solution for anyone. So anything I say
1342
00:44:15,934 --> 00:44:17,954
is is colored by that. But
1343
00:44:18,255 --> 00:44:18,994
for me,
1344
00:44:19,375 --> 00:44:21,075
you know, it was very much about
1345
00:44:21,389 --> 00:44:21,889
following
1346
00:44:22,269 --> 00:44:24,829
following what interests me. You know, I have
1347
00:44:24,829 --> 00:44:27,230
always been fascinated by the idea of of
1348
00:44:27,230 --> 00:44:27,969
a multiverse
1349
00:44:28,589 --> 00:44:29,409
and just
1350
00:44:30,109 --> 00:44:32,529
the differences between them. And
1351
00:44:32,829 --> 00:44:36,049
I also was fascinated by the idea of,
1352
00:44:37,465 --> 00:44:39,144
you know, of of the idea of the
1353
00:44:39,144 --> 00:44:41,144
devil and how he operates. And I was
1354
00:44:41,144 --> 00:44:42,664
kinda hung up on this idea for a
1355
00:44:42,664 --> 00:44:44,425
really long time. Like, how does the devil
1356
00:44:44,425 --> 00:44:46,105
do what he does? How does he tempt
1357
00:44:46,105 --> 00:44:46,605
people?
1358
00:44:46,905 --> 00:44:48,844
You know? Like, we know that he does,
1359
00:44:49,380 --> 00:44:50,739
but how does he do that? And that's
1360
00:44:50,739 --> 00:44:52,579
not really a question that's answered. You know?
1361
00:44:52,579 --> 00:44:54,579
Does he get into our our minds? And
1362
00:44:54,579 --> 00:44:56,420
can he can he influence our thoughts, or
1363
00:44:56,420 --> 00:44:59,380
does he create circumstances somehow that tempt us?
1364
00:44:59,380 --> 00:45:01,059
You know? And so it was it was
1365
00:45:01,059 --> 00:45:02,579
something I was hung up on for years
1366
00:45:02,579 --> 00:45:03,960
that I was just thinking about.
1367
00:45:04,304 --> 00:45:05,824
And, and if you watch the film, I
1368
00:45:05,824 --> 00:45:06,804
think, I think
1369
00:45:07,425 --> 00:45:09,264
a lot of the beginning will now suddenly
1370
00:45:09,264 --> 00:45:11,025
make a new kind of sense as far
1371
00:45:11,025 --> 00:45:12,545
as like what I was trying to do
1372
00:45:12,545 --> 00:45:15,025
with the multiverse aspect and trying to explain
1373
00:45:15,025 --> 00:45:16,164
something in a really
1374
00:45:16,599 --> 00:45:18,359
interesting way of like, how does the devil
1375
00:45:18,359 --> 00:45:19,640
operate? That's a lot of what the beginning
1376
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:20,859
of the movie is about.
1377
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:23,579
And, and so,
1378
00:45:24,039 --> 00:45:27,159
you know, that's me just following, following where
1379
00:45:27,159 --> 00:45:29,980
the thoughts are going, following what is interesting
1380
00:45:30,039 --> 00:45:32,414
to me and not letting go of that.
1381
00:45:32,434 --> 00:45:34,875
And, and realizing that my brain isn't letting
1382
00:45:34,875 --> 00:45:35,694
go of that
1383
00:45:36,234 --> 00:45:38,714
and trusting that, trusting that there's gotta be
1384
00:45:38,714 --> 00:45:40,394
something there. If I can't let go of
1385
00:45:40,394 --> 00:45:41,775
this thought and this idea,
1386
00:45:42,074 --> 00:45:45,089
and my mind keeps percolating on it and
1387
00:45:45,089 --> 00:45:47,569
and and expanding on it, then there's probably
1388
00:45:47,569 --> 00:45:48,469
something there.
1389
00:45:49,809 --> 00:45:51,489
And so I'm a I'm a big believer
1390
00:45:51,489 --> 00:45:53,730
in that that that the that your brain
1391
00:45:53,730 --> 00:45:55,889
almost knows what you can do better than
1392
00:45:55,889 --> 00:45:56,549
you can,
1393
00:45:56,864 --> 00:45:57,684
almost intuitively.
1394
00:45:58,545 --> 00:46:01,105
And and so I I followed that. But
1395
00:46:01,105 --> 00:46:02,385
then of course, the other side of it
1396
00:46:02,385 --> 00:46:03,284
is is
1397
00:46:03,585 --> 00:46:05,284
get get good at your craft,
1398
00:46:05,664 --> 00:46:07,664
learn everything you can. There's so many people
1399
00:46:07,664 --> 00:46:09,184
who want to do, and they think that
1400
00:46:09,184 --> 00:46:10,864
wanting to do is the same as being
1401
00:46:10,864 --> 00:46:12,590
able to do. And it's
1402
00:46:12,970 --> 00:46:14,670
not. It's not the same thing.
1403
00:46:15,690 --> 00:46:17,530
If you want to do something, then become
1404
00:46:17,530 --> 00:46:19,150
a student of that thing.
1405
00:46:19,769 --> 00:46:22,030
Before I got into filmmaking, I was obsessed
1406
00:46:22,250 --> 00:46:23,550
with DVD commentaries
1407
00:46:24,184 --> 00:46:26,844
and behind the scenes videos and reading
1408
00:46:27,224 --> 00:46:28,844
Vermeer and Empire
1409
00:46:29,224 --> 00:46:31,304
and Starlog back in the day and anything
1410
00:46:31,304 --> 00:46:32,905
I could get my hands on that would
1411
00:46:32,905 --> 00:46:35,644
tell me, like, how are these things made?
1412
00:46:36,279 --> 00:46:38,519
And I was doing that because I loved
1413
00:46:38,519 --> 00:46:40,839
to learn about it, never anticipating that I
1414
00:46:40,839 --> 00:46:42,539
would actually get into filmmaking.
1415
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:45,079
But because it was such a passion of
1416
00:46:45,079 --> 00:46:47,559
mine, by the time, the opportunity presented itself,
1417
00:46:47,559 --> 00:46:48,839
I was way ahead of the curve. I
1418
00:46:48,839 --> 00:46:50,359
knew there were certainly things I didn't know,
1419
00:46:50,359 --> 00:46:51,804
but there was much that I did know
1420
00:46:51,804 --> 00:46:52,625
about storytelling
1421
00:46:53,244 --> 00:46:53,905
and about
1422
00:46:54,285 --> 00:46:57,085
what a director does and, you know, about
1423
00:46:57,085 --> 00:46:58,304
about the the
1424
00:46:58,765 --> 00:46:59,344
the mechanics,
1425
00:47:00,125 --> 00:47:00,625
specifically,
1426
00:47:01,005 --> 00:47:04,125
of screenwriting, which are very different from novels
1427
00:47:04,125 --> 00:47:04,785
and comics.
1428
00:47:06,199 --> 00:47:07,719
And so this was something that I was
1429
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:09,500
passionate about that I learned about
1430
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,039
everything I could read every book I could.
1431
00:47:12,039 --> 00:47:13,960
I didn't go to film school. Admittedly, by
1432
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:15,639
the time I got into filmmaking, I was
1433
00:47:15,639 --> 00:47:17,000
in my late thirties. It was way too
1434
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,075
late to go to film school, but I
1435
00:47:19,075 --> 00:47:21,394
made up for it by learning everything I
1436
00:47:21,394 --> 00:47:21,894
could,
1437
00:47:23,075 --> 00:47:25,075
because we don't need people with a lot
1438
00:47:25,075 --> 00:47:27,155
of passion and knowability. We need people who
1439
00:47:27,155 --> 00:47:27,815
are students
1440
00:47:28,195 --> 00:47:29,815
of the thing that they wanna do.
1441
00:47:30,515 --> 00:47:32,035
And so that that would be that would
1442
00:47:32,035 --> 00:47:33,809
be my two pieces of advice is
1443
00:47:34,289 --> 00:47:36,390
work on your craft, get good at it,
1444
00:47:36,610 --> 00:47:39,410
and and follow trust your brain and follow
1445
00:47:39,410 --> 00:47:42,210
follow those those those passions, those instincts that
1446
00:47:42,210 --> 00:47:42,949
you've got.
1447
00:47:43,890 --> 00:47:44,390
Alright.
1448
00:47:44,849 --> 00:47:47,090
So let's do some little more fast paced
1449
00:47:47,090 --> 00:47:49,010
questions here. Mhmm. It's gonna be kind of,
1450
00:47:50,204 --> 00:47:51,025
your preferences
1451
00:47:51,325 --> 00:47:52,144
and your,
1452
00:47:53,965 --> 00:47:55,885
inspirations, this is like that. So so tell
1453
00:47:55,885 --> 00:47:57,025
me a couple movies
1454
00:47:57,325 --> 00:47:59,585
that inspire you. Not that necessarily inspired
1455
00:48:00,125 --> 00:48:02,204
this Right. But just a couple movies that
1456
00:48:02,204 --> 00:48:03,105
inspire you.
1457
00:48:03,549 --> 00:48:04,049
Sure.
1458
00:48:05,869 --> 00:48:07,569
Well, my go to is,
1459
00:48:08,269 --> 00:48:10,210
for for this, I think, is always Gattaca.
1460
00:48:10,589 --> 00:48:12,989
Gattaca is probably my favorite movie of all
1461
00:48:12,989 --> 00:48:15,150
time, and it's a movie that not everybody
1462
00:48:15,150 --> 00:48:15,885
knows about.
1463
00:48:16,445 --> 00:48:18,605
You know, Ethan Hawke, Jude Law, Uma Thurman,
1464
00:48:18,605 --> 00:48:20,844
directed and written by Andrew Nicoll who who
1465
00:48:20,844 --> 00:48:22,385
also wrote The Truman Show.
1466
00:48:22,844 --> 00:48:24,304
And it's a really prescient
1467
00:48:24,684 --> 00:48:26,945
sci fi film from, I think, 1998,
1468
00:48:27,405 --> 00:48:29,485
I wanna say. Round in there. Yeah. Yeah.
1469
00:48:29,485 --> 00:48:32,049
Around in there. It's about, you know, just
1470
00:48:32,049 --> 00:48:34,469
mapping DNA and being able to,
1471
00:48:36,130 --> 00:48:38,769
basically make children to order in in a
1472
00:48:38,769 --> 00:48:40,530
in a society where people are growing up,
1473
00:48:40,530 --> 00:48:43,589
and and they are essentially, you know, designed.
1474
00:48:44,154 --> 00:48:46,154
And, and it's just it's a it's a
1475
00:48:46,154 --> 00:48:48,654
triumph of the human spirit type of film.
1476
00:48:48,954 --> 00:48:51,994
It's beautifully shot, beautifully made, and it is
1477
00:48:51,994 --> 00:48:54,394
just, just about a perfect movie for me.
1478
00:48:54,394 --> 00:48:57,534
I I I'm endlessly inspired by that movie,
1479
00:48:58,369 --> 00:48:59,969
and it's it's one I wish more people
1480
00:48:59,969 --> 00:49:00,630
knew about.
1481
00:49:01,650 --> 00:49:03,010
And then the other one, and this one
1482
00:49:03,010 --> 00:49:04,449
is a little bit more of a cliche,
1483
00:49:04,449 --> 00:49:06,530
but I came about my love for it
1484
00:49:06,530 --> 00:49:07,590
very, very honestly,
1485
00:49:08,210 --> 00:49:09,670
and that's Citizen Kane.
1486
00:49:09,969 --> 00:49:10,289
Okay.
1487
00:49:10,769 --> 00:49:12,289
And and when I say it came about,
1488
00:49:12,289 --> 00:49:14,585
honestly, I I mean, I it wasn't thrust
1489
00:49:14,585 --> 00:49:16,284
upon me at school.
1490
00:49:16,664 --> 00:49:17,804
I didn't do it for
1491
00:49:18,184 --> 00:49:19,164
homework. I was,
1492
00:49:19,464 --> 00:49:20,984
this is back when you could go to
1493
00:49:20,984 --> 00:49:22,904
places like the warehouse and you could buy
1494
00:49:22,904 --> 00:49:25,085
DVDs and everything. And I was
1495
00:49:25,784 --> 00:49:26,844
in the store
1496
00:49:27,300 --> 00:49:30,440
and I found myself with some money
1497
00:49:30,900 --> 00:49:32,599
and I wanted to buy a movie
1498
00:49:32,900 --> 00:49:34,500
and I wanted, and this is before Netflix
1499
00:49:34,500 --> 00:49:35,400
and all of that.
1500
00:49:35,860 --> 00:49:37,219
And I wanted to buy a movie and
1501
00:49:37,219 --> 00:49:39,300
I wanted to buy something interesting. And for
1502
00:49:39,300 --> 00:49:41,864
whatever reason, citizen Kane jumped out at me
1503
00:49:41,945 --> 00:49:43,385
And I'm like, you know what? I've heard
1504
00:49:43,385 --> 00:49:45,005
that's the greatest movie of all time.
1505
00:49:45,704 --> 00:49:47,244
Sure. Why not? So I
1506
00:49:47,545 --> 00:49:50,425
cold bought Citizen Kane without knowing or seeing
1507
00:49:50,425 --> 00:49:51,565
anything from it.
1508
00:49:51,864 --> 00:49:54,105
And I brought it home and I watched
1509
00:49:54,105 --> 00:49:56,364
it and I was totally entranced.
1510
00:49:57,210 --> 00:49:57,869
That movie
1511
00:49:58,329 --> 00:50:00,489
more than deserves its reputation. It was so
1512
00:50:00,489 --> 00:50:02,489
ahead of its time. You really to fully
1513
00:50:02,489 --> 00:50:04,809
understand Citizen Kane, you have to be a
1514
00:50:04,809 --> 00:50:06,650
lover of film, I think. But I think
1515
00:50:06,650 --> 00:50:07,690
also you have to put it in the
1516
00:50:07,690 --> 00:50:09,769
context of its times and realizing just how
1517
00:50:09,769 --> 00:50:11,369
many innovations are in that film. And I
1518
00:50:11,369 --> 00:50:14,815
think it's just a a beautiful tragic story
1519
00:50:14,815 --> 00:50:15,474
as well,
1520
00:50:16,015 --> 00:50:16,994
that is endlessly
1521
00:50:17,295 --> 00:50:17,795
rewatchable.
1522
00:50:18,255 --> 00:50:20,735
Roger Ebert famously said that it doesn't matter
1523
00:50:20,735 --> 00:50:23,454
how many times he's seen Citizen Kane, and
1524
00:50:23,454 --> 00:50:24,655
that is a man who saw it a
1525
00:50:24,655 --> 00:50:26,655
lot. He actually does the commentary for Citizen
1526
00:50:26,655 --> 00:50:28,434
Kane on the on the disc.
1527
00:50:30,150 --> 00:50:31,829
He he never can remember what order the
1528
00:50:31,829 --> 00:50:33,829
scenes go in, which I think is just
1529
00:50:33,829 --> 00:50:34,650
a fascinating
1530
00:50:34,949 --> 00:50:37,510
comment about a movie. You know, what what
1531
00:50:37,510 --> 00:50:39,670
causes that and why is that interesting that
1532
00:50:39,670 --> 00:50:41,510
he can't remember what order the scenes are
1533
00:50:41,510 --> 00:50:42,949
in? And if you know Citizen Kane, it's
1534
00:50:42,949 --> 00:50:43,609
a famously,
1535
00:50:45,436 --> 00:50:48,684
a nonlinear narrative. But he's right. Every time
1536
00:50:48,684 --> 00:50:50,285
I've watched it, I can never remember what
1537
00:50:50,285 --> 00:50:52,204
comes in action, and that just makes it
1538
00:50:52,204 --> 00:50:54,204
so much more exciting. So for its craft,
1539
00:50:54,204 --> 00:50:56,605
Citizen Kane, and then just for its story
1540
00:50:56,605 --> 00:50:58,465
and and and its craft as well,
1541
00:50:58,900 --> 00:51:00,739
Cattaca, I mean, for me, it's it's an
1542
00:51:00,739 --> 00:51:02,280
odd pairing. I know. But,
1543
00:51:02,900 --> 00:51:03,400
cinematically
1544
00:51:03,699 --> 00:51:05,860
and and storytelling wise, that's that's kind of
1545
00:51:05,940 --> 00:51:07,380
those 2 films are in my DNA in
1546
00:51:07,380 --> 00:51:08,199
a big way.
1547
00:51:08,900 --> 00:51:11,380
Citizen Kane, I didn't come across honestly, but
1548
00:51:11,380 --> 00:51:13,059
I still loved it. Like, it was definitely
1549
00:51:13,059 --> 00:51:13,619
a part of,
1550
00:51:15,035 --> 00:51:16,795
that was it wasn't part of my film
1551
00:51:16,795 --> 00:51:19,115
school. It was part of my before film
1552
00:51:19,115 --> 00:51:19,615
school,
1553
00:51:20,315 --> 00:51:21,515
where it was just like we were gonna
1554
00:51:21,515 --> 00:51:23,675
watch movies with a capital m. You know?
1555
00:51:23,675 --> 00:51:24,175
Right.
1556
00:51:24,474 --> 00:51:26,155
Right. And and that was one of those,
1557
00:51:26,155 --> 00:51:28,210
like, woah. And it just washed over me.
1558
00:51:28,210 --> 00:51:29,809
I loved it so much and bought it
1559
00:51:29,809 --> 00:51:30,470
on DVD.
1560
00:51:31,010 --> 00:51:32,530
Of course, I knew about also Orson Welles
1561
00:51:32,530 --> 00:51:33,809
from War of the Worlds and some of
1562
00:51:33,809 --> 00:51:35,590
the Right. Things he did with that. But,
1563
00:51:36,930 --> 00:51:38,849
Yeah. It was so I I didn't come
1564
00:51:38,849 --> 00:51:40,610
across it honestly. I was trying to be
1565
00:51:40,610 --> 00:51:42,965
pretentious, and we were looking for the, like
1566
00:51:42,965 --> 00:51:44,885
I said, movies with a capital m. But
1567
00:51:44,885 --> 00:51:47,465
but Gattaca, man, that is a fantastic,
1568
00:51:48,485 --> 00:51:50,644
wonderful movie. I just rewatched it about 4
1569
00:51:50,644 --> 00:51:52,265
months ago, and it just
1570
00:51:53,045 --> 00:51:53,945
just hits
1571
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,239
everything perfectly, I feel. Like, it just Yeah.
1572
00:51:57,239 --> 00:51:57,900
It does.
1573
00:51:58,200 --> 00:51:58,860
And it's
1574
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:01,400
going back to it's got sci fi high
1575
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:03,640
concepts, but at the same time, it is
1576
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:04,140
about
1577
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:06,119
a very relatable human
1578
00:52:06,599 --> 00:52:07,820
Yeah. It's very grounded.
1579
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:09,820
And yeah. Yeah.
1580
00:52:10,695 --> 00:52:12,875
Not a lot of it So favorite
1581
00:52:13,175 --> 00:52:14,075
comic book?
1582
00:52:15,494 --> 00:52:16,394
Oh my gosh
1583
00:52:17,815 --> 00:52:19,594
That's almost impossible to choose
1584
00:52:20,614 --> 00:52:22,135
I have real I'll I'll say what I've
1585
00:52:22,135 --> 00:52:24,135
been really into lately I've been really into
1586
00:52:24,135 --> 00:52:25,835
Sean Murphy's White Knight series
1587
00:52:27,150 --> 00:52:29,809
his alternate take on Batman. Just that whole
1588
00:52:30,030 --> 00:52:31,949
back to back graphic novels that he's been
1589
00:52:31,949 --> 00:52:34,690
doing, that whole just reinvention of Batman.
1590
00:52:34,989 --> 00:52:36,369
Sean Murphy, I think,
1591
00:52:36,829 --> 00:52:39,309
hands down, is the is my favorite and
1592
00:52:39,309 --> 00:52:40,050
the best,
1593
00:52:41,175 --> 00:52:42,875
comic book artist currently working.
1594
00:52:43,494 --> 00:52:45,494
But then as a writer, he's just so
1595
00:52:45,494 --> 00:52:48,635
interesting to me, and he's so compact.
1596
00:52:49,414 --> 00:52:52,215
Like, he is the opposite of decompressed storytelling,
1597
00:52:52,215 --> 00:52:54,155
which I think has been kind of ruling
1598
00:52:54,289 --> 00:52:56,550
the comic book world since Yeah. Since Bendis
1599
00:52:56,609 --> 00:52:58,050
first did it back in the, you know,
1600
00:52:58,050 --> 00:52:58,869
early 2000.
1601
00:52:59,650 --> 00:53:01,409
Murphy is the opposite of that. Like, it's
1602
00:53:01,409 --> 00:53:04,210
very compact, and it's very like, it moves,
1603
00:53:04,210 --> 00:53:05,510
like, quickly quickly.
1604
00:53:06,449 --> 00:53:07,989
And and it and he really,
1605
00:53:08,885 --> 00:53:11,144
he really makes you participate as a reader,
1606
00:53:11,364 --> 00:53:13,444
especially if you go to that first White
1607
00:53:13,444 --> 00:53:13,944
Knight,
1608
00:53:16,984 --> 00:53:17,484
graphic
1609
00:53:18,164 --> 00:53:20,244
novel. You almost feel like you missed. Like,
1610
00:53:20,244 --> 00:53:21,809
there was an earlier book that you missed.
1611
00:53:21,809 --> 00:53:23,890
Like, you're kinda jumping in, like, towards the
1612
00:53:23,890 --> 00:53:25,809
middle or towards the end of Batman's story.
1613
00:53:25,809 --> 00:53:27,489
He's already got this relationship with the Joker,
1614
00:53:27,489 --> 00:53:30,210
and it's completely just kinda redone. But, I
1615
00:53:30,210 --> 00:53:31,730
just I'm a huge fan of that series,
1616
00:53:31,730 --> 00:53:33,489
and I every time a new one comes
1617
00:53:33,489 --> 00:53:35,030
out, I I grab it immediately.
1618
00:53:36,224 --> 00:53:37,204
There was a character
1619
00:53:37,585 --> 00:53:39,744
in fiction that you could make that you
1620
00:53:39,744 --> 00:53:41,345
were were asked to make a movie about,
1621
00:53:41,345 --> 00:53:42,565
what would you want it to be?
1622
00:53:43,664 --> 00:53:44,724
Oh, gosh.
1623
00:53:45,825 --> 00:53:47,105
Yeah. I'm throwing out the hard ones right
1624
00:53:47,105 --> 00:53:49,184
now. Oh, man. Yeah. I have literally never
1625
00:53:49,184 --> 00:53:50,164
thought about that.
1626
00:53:50,909 --> 00:53:52,750
I try not to because I know I
1627
00:53:52,750 --> 00:53:54,190
never will, but there's a couple of times
1628
00:53:54,190 --> 00:53:55,949
where I'm just like, man, I wanna do
1629
00:53:55,949 --> 00:53:58,510
an Aquaman movie. You know? That's Right. Right.
1630
00:53:58,510 --> 00:54:01,069
Right. You know, it probably says this is
1631
00:54:01,150 --> 00:54:02,670
I mean, look. James Gunn is about to
1632
00:54:02,670 --> 00:54:04,750
do it probably better than anybody's ever gonna
1633
00:54:04,750 --> 00:54:07,235
do it, And Richard Donner certainly did it
1634
00:54:07,235 --> 00:54:09,315
in an amazing way, but Superman, I've always
1635
00:54:09,315 --> 00:54:10,535
had a deep love for.
1636
00:54:11,555 --> 00:54:13,315
And I think that he's,
1637
00:54:14,275 --> 00:54:15,875
he hasn't been done right for quite a
1638
00:54:15,875 --> 00:54:17,235
while. And I and I and I'm not
1639
00:54:17,235 --> 00:54:18,355
saying that I know how to do them
1640
00:54:18,355 --> 00:54:20,339
right, but I gotta take, and I'd love
1641
00:54:20,339 --> 00:54:22,179
to explore that. And I think Superman would
1642
00:54:22,179 --> 00:54:23,859
be would be really fun to do. Just
1643
00:54:23,859 --> 00:54:25,880
a purely good character like that,
1644
00:54:26,339 --> 00:54:28,259
he gets short shrift. I like I like
1645
00:54:28,259 --> 00:54:29,699
what I'm hearing, though, about what James Gunn
1646
00:54:29,699 --> 00:54:31,139
is doing with him, so I'm I'm hopeful
1647
00:54:31,139 --> 00:54:32,934
for that one. I am too. I
1648
00:54:33,734 --> 00:54:35,014
although when I found out he was gonna
1649
00:54:35,014 --> 00:54:36,474
be doing that have you seen Brightburn?
1650
00:54:37,335 --> 00:54:39,014
I have not seen Brightburn. I know that's,
1651
00:54:39,014 --> 00:54:41,494
like, his dark Superman Yeah. Movie. Yeah. It
1652
00:54:41,494 --> 00:54:43,815
kinda got me a little, oh, no. Yeah.
1653
00:54:43,815 --> 00:54:45,175
But it sounds like he's not trying to
1654
00:54:45,175 --> 00:54:47,650
do the twist. He's trying to do the
1655
00:54:47,650 --> 00:54:50,449
character. I mean, yeah, he's brightly colored costume
1656
00:54:50,449 --> 00:54:52,690
and Kryptos in it. Like, this does not
1657
00:54:52,690 --> 00:54:54,849
seem like the it's and I don't expect
1658
00:54:54,849 --> 00:54:56,849
suicide. If he goes suicide side squad with
1659
00:54:56,849 --> 00:54:58,050
it, I'll be shocked too. I I just
1660
00:54:58,050 --> 00:54:59,570
don't think he's doing that. I think he
1661
00:54:59,570 --> 00:55:00,550
understands that
1662
00:55:00,914 --> 00:55:03,074
we need a a especially right now, we
1663
00:55:03,074 --> 00:55:04,775
need a a a bright
1664
00:55:05,394 --> 00:55:07,315
Superman for our times that that we can
1665
00:55:07,315 --> 00:55:08,594
that we can look up to. That's that's
1666
00:55:08,594 --> 00:55:09,954
what we're looking for. And I don't think
1667
00:55:09,954 --> 00:55:11,894
we've really had that since Christopher Reeve.
1668
00:55:12,195 --> 00:55:13,659
I don't think so either. I think part
1669
00:55:13,659 --> 00:55:15,019
of the problem and this is my take
1670
00:55:15,019 --> 00:55:16,699
on the what's happening with Superman right now
1671
00:55:16,699 --> 00:55:19,260
is there are so many people writing Superman
1672
00:55:19,260 --> 00:55:21,659
right now who just don't I won't even
1673
00:55:21,659 --> 00:55:23,579
say they don't understand him. They don't believe
1674
00:55:23,579 --> 00:55:26,219
in him. Well, that's exactly it. They don't
1675
00:55:26,219 --> 00:55:28,965
believe in him. Heroism and and doing the
1676
00:55:28,965 --> 00:55:30,805
right thing because it's the right thing to
1677
00:55:30,805 --> 00:55:33,925
do. Or Right. I I find Superman so
1678
00:55:33,925 --> 00:55:35,864
interesting because he's someone who
1679
00:55:36,244 --> 00:55:37,864
has to hold himself back.
1680
00:55:38,405 --> 00:55:41,684
He could do so much, but instead he's
1681
00:55:41,684 --> 00:55:42,184
choosing
1682
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:44,239
to do the good and to do the
1683
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:46,079
right. Right. And he doesn't have to, you
1684
00:55:46,079 --> 00:55:48,559
know, but he's choosing to. And there's there's
1685
00:55:48,559 --> 00:55:50,239
a lot of interesting stories you can tell
1686
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:53,119
with him Right. That aren't being told because
1687
00:55:53,119 --> 00:55:55,215
the people who are writing him are trying
1688
00:55:55,215 --> 00:55:56,974
to do the dark twist or trying to
1689
00:55:56,974 --> 00:55:59,295
do, you know, my spin on it. Right.
1690
00:55:59,615 --> 00:56:01,295
But but a lot of times, they're people
1691
00:56:01,295 --> 00:56:02,914
who don't believe in morality
1692
00:56:03,375 --> 00:56:05,235
or right or wrong or heroism
1693
00:56:05,535 --> 00:56:06,035
or
1694
00:56:06,414 --> 00:56:08,130
that kind of things. No. Or yeah. They
1695
00:56:08,130 --> 00:56:10,289
don't they don't find it realistic as though
1696
00:56:10,289 --> 00:56:13,429
somebody somebody with great power could also be
1697
00:56:13,650 --> 00:56:16,369
really, really good and could choose to control
1698
00:56:16,369 --> 00:56:16,869
himself.
1699
00:56:17,170 --> 00:56:18,469
There's something that's unbelievable
1700
00:56:19,010 --> 00:56:19,750
about that
1701
00:56:20,164 --> 00:56:22,344
for certain people. And I find that
1702
00:56:23,125 --> 00:56:24,264
sad and cynical
1703
00:56:24,565 --> 00:56:26,484
and untrue. I know a lot of people
1704
00:56:26,484 --> 00:56:28,484
who are very good and who don't wield
1705
00:56:28,484 --> 00:56:30,184
their power like, like a hammer.
1706
00:56:30,565 --> 00:56:32,940
I think it's also why the best, for
1707
00:56:32,940 --> 00:56:35,339
my money, the best Superman story of this
1708
00:56:35,339 --> 00:56:35,839
century,
1709
00:56:37,099 --> 00:56:38,780
and the one that I know is also
1710
00:56:38,780 --> 00:56:41,420
a huge inspiration for James Gunn's take on
1711
00:56:41,420 --> 00:56:43,980
Superman next year is All Star Superman by
1712
00:56:43,980 --> 00:56:44,719
Graham Morrison
1713
00:56:45,019 --> 00:56:46,000
and Frank Whiteley.
1714
00:56:46,864 --> 00:56:49,824
That is an incredible book that absolutely gets
1715
00:56:49,824 --> 00:56:51,525
Superman a 100% right.
1716
00:56:52,224 --> 00:56:54,864
Have you read the Alex Ross Paul Paul
1717
00:56:54,864 --> 00:56:55,364
Deanie
1718
00:56:55,664 --> 00:56:56,164
oversized
1719
00:56:56,864 --> 00:56:59,280
comics that he did? I have. That to
1720
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:01,199
me is one of the best Superman stories
1721
00:57:01,199 --> 00:57:02,500
of all time. I just
1722
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:04,099
Hey. Superman
1723
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:06,960
that came out with the subtitle because there's
1724
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:09,119
Batman war on crime. Right. Right. I don't
1725
00:57:09,119 --> 00:57:11,760
really I have it. I had it. Yeah.
1726
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:14,179
I just I love that one so much.
1727
00:57:14,505 --> 00:57:15,625
It's peace on Earth. It might have been
1728
00:57:15,625 --> 00:57:16,664
super amp peace on Earth. I think it
1729
00:57:16,664 --> 00:57:18,264
was peace on Earth. I'll be honest with
1730
00:57:18,264 --> 00:57:20,284
you. It was stolen out of my garage.
1731
00:57:20,424 --> 00:57:22,364
I I haven't reread it in a while,
1732
00:57:22,824 --> 00:57:24,744
and I don't I don't I don't remember
1733
00:57:24,744 --> 00:57:26,664
that story very well. I love kingdom come,
1734
00:57:26,664 --> 00:57:28,184
though. Alex Ross said kingdom come. I think
1735
00:57:28,184 --> 00:57:29,730
that's in the I would be the best
1736
00:57:29,730 --> 00:57:30,610
Superman stories from the previous century would be
1737
00:57:30,610 --> 00:57:31,090
Kingdom Come. But, but yeah. No. There are
1738
00:57:31,090 --> 00:57:31,764
there are story because it's
1739
00:57:32,232 --> 00:57:35,489
and it's self contained. You know? Right. It's
1740
00:57:35,489 --> 00:57:37,360
just it's all about hope. That actually was
1741
00:57:42,994 --> 00:57:44,695
Wonder Woman might have been peace on Earth.
1742
00:57:45,235 --> 00:57:46,375
Superman might have been
1743
00:57:46,755 --> 00:57:47,974
hope. I I can't remember.
1744
00:57:48,355 --> 00:57:49,875
But it is Somebody could look it up.
1745
00:57:49,875 --> 00:57:51,015
Yeah. And it's just
1746
00:57:51,715 --> 00:57:53,394
and they've done a collection of all of
1747
00:57:53,394 --> 00:57:56,114
them together because there's Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman,
1748
00:57:56,114 --> 00:57:57,094
and then Shazam.
1749
00:57:57,429 --> 00:57:57,750
Shazam. Right.
1750
00:57:58,390 --> 00:57:59,989
Also surprising. And then there was a Justice
1751
00:57:59,989 --> 00:58:01,670
League one that they did that had a
1752
00:58:01,670 --> 00:58:03,670
couple different extras that went along with it.
1753
00:58:03,670 --> 00:58:04,969
And so it's just this nice
1754
00:58:05,590 --> 00:58:06,090
cohesive
1755
00:58:06,949 --> 00:58:08,489
Alex Ross hated
1756
00:58:08,789 --> 00:58:11,449
Yeah. Graphic novel series. It's just just wonderful.
1757
00:58:11,474 --> 00:58:13,394
Just beautiful. No. And he's he's an incredible
1758
00:58:13,394 --> 00:58:15,474
artist. I mean, he's, hands down, my favorite
1759
00:58:15,474 --> 00:58:18,195
rendition of Superman is is from his brush,
1760
00:58:18,195 --> 00:58:18,855
a 100%.
1761
00:58:20,035 --> 00:58:21,795
Yeah. It it just feels like this is
1762
00:58:21,795 --> 00:58:24,135
a guy who's a good guy, a nice,
1763
00:58:24,914 --> 00:58:25,414
kind,
1764
00:58:26,460 --> 00:58:29,179
powerful, but gentle, you know, and Mhmm.
1765
00:58:29,820 --> 00:58:30,960
And I can understand,
1766
00:58:31,340 --> 00:58:32,960
especially if you feel more cynical.
1767
00:58:33,260 --> 00:58:34,139
Like, you don't even have to be a
1768
00:58:34,139 --> 00:58:36,139
bad person to feel cynical. You know? No.
1769
00:58:36,139 --> 00:58:37,820
You don't. Just to feel like, it's not
1770
00:58:37,820 --> 00:58:39,340
very realistic. But then on the other hand,
1771
00:58:39,340 --> 00:58:41,375
that's part of, I mean, I can accept
1772
00:58:41,375 --> 00:58:42,494
that he could blow out a sun with
1773
00:58:42,494 --> 00:58:43,155
his breath.
1774
00:58:43,534 --> 00:58:45,315
I can accept that he's a good guy.
1775
00:58:45,614 --> 00:58:48,275
Right. Right. So Yep. Yep. Yeah.
1776
00:58:49,454 --> 00:58:52,175
What's your favorite franchise with the word star
1777
00:58:52,175 --> 00:58:52,835
in it?
1778
00:58:54,839 --> 00:58:57,319
Oh, man. I go back and forth, which
1779
00:58:57,319 --> 00:58:58,059
is such
1780
00:58:58,759 --> 00:59:00,299
a such a cop out answer,
1781
00:59:00,839 --> 00:59:02,920
but I feel like the franchises go back
1782
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:05,559
and forth. You know? Like, they they they
1783
00:59:05,559 --> 00:59:07,400
have their ebbs and their flows. They have
1784
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:09,914
their their times of of height and their
1785
00:59:09,914 --> 00:59:11,215
times of lows. And,
1786
00:59:12,795 --> 00:59:14,394
so it's hard to say. I definitely go
1787
00:59:14,394 --> 00:59:16,255
back and forth right now. I feel like
1788
00:59:16,394 --> 00:59:18,494
I feel like star wars is kind of
1789
00:59:18,795 --> 00:59:21,039
on the low end right now. It's it's
1790
00:59:21,159 --> 00:59:22,920
there's been some really good things. Like, I'm
1791
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:25,079
a huge fan of the force awakens and
1792
00:59:25,079 --> 00:59:26,599
and a huge fan of season 1 of
1793
00:59:26,599 --> 00:59:28,860
the Mandalorian and then outs and and Andor.
1794
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:29,500
Absolutely.
1795
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:31,800
Yeah. I mean, I cannot wait for season
1796
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:34,119
2. I think, honestly, Andor season 1, I
1797
00:59:34,119 --> 00:59:36,144
believe, was the best television show of the
1798
00:59:36,144 --> 00:59:37,744
year that it came out, whatever year that
1799
00:59:37,744 --> 00:59:38,244
was.
1800
00:59:38,545 --> 00:59:41,444
It's in a tremendous, tremendous piece of television.
1801
00:59:42,464 --> 00:59:44,304
But then but then outside of that, I
1802
00:59:44,304 --> 00:59:46,304
I I'm much less enthusiastic when it comes
1803
00:59:46,304 --> 00:59:47,764
to what Star Wars is doing.
1804
00:59:49,260 --> 00:59:51,519
And then, and then Star Trek, you know,
1805
00:59:51,900 --> 00:59:54,219
I really fell off on Discovery. Strange New
1806
00:59:54,219 --> 00:59:54,719
Worlds,
1807
00:59:55,019 --> 00:59:57,099
super up on that. Can't really get into
1808
00:59:57,099 --> 00:59:58,460
the animated stuff. So
1809
00:59:59,500 --> 01:00:01,065
but I'm a lot I have love for
1810
01:00:01,065 --> 01:00:03,304
both. My dad raised me right. Like, he
1811
01:00:03,304 --> 01:00:05,464
he put he put Star Trek on the
1812
01:00:05,464 --> 01:00:07,545
television, and then we went and saw every
1813
01:00:07,545 --> 01:00:09,545
Star Wars movie together in the theaters. And
1814
01:00:09,545 --> 01:00:11,304
so it's hard for me to separate the
1815
01:00:11,304 --> 01:00:11,804
2.
1816
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:15,599
Yeah. And and I've also you know, there's
1817
01:00:15,599 --> 01:00:18,159
bonus points for Stargate, of course. Like, that's
1818
01:00:18,159 --> 01:00:20,639
another franchise. Stargate, I could not get into.
1819
01:00:20,639 --> 01:00:22,639
So I'll I'll Alright. I'll say. Oh, that
1820
01:00:22,639 --> 01:00:24,659
one that one doesn't quite rank for me.
1821
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:26,559
So last on this kind of pop culture
1822
01:00:26,559 --> 01:00:28,639
y thing, but what is one of,
1823
01:00:29,285 --> 01:00:31,125
your favorite and and this is to tie
1824
01:00:31,125 --> 01:00:33,364
it in back into, the shift. What's one
1825
01:00:33,364 --> 01:00:34,425
of your favorite multiverse
1826
01:00:34,724 --> 01:00:35,224
stories?
1827
01:00:37,844 --> 01:00:39,684
I'm gonna name something that I think most
1828
01:00:39,684 --> 01:00:41,465
people would not think it was a multiverse
1829
01:00:41,570 --> 01:00:43,650
story. Right. But it genuinely is my favorite
1830
01:00:43,650 --> 01:00:45,090
multiverse story. And if you think about it,
1831
01:00:45,090 --> 01:00:46,769
it is a multiverse story, which is It's
1832
01:00:46,769 --> 01:00:47,909
a Wonderful Life.
1833
01:00:48,690 --> 01:00:51,010
Interesting. Okay. I I can love totally
1834
01:00:51,570 --> 01:00:54,070
yeah. Okay. No. It is. It's a multiverse
1835
01:00:54,210 --> 01:00:54,710
story,
1836
01:00:55,090 --> 01:00:56,389
from the 19 forties.
1837
01:00:56,894 --> 01:00:58,894
And, I mean, it's a beautiful movie. We
1838
01:00:58,894 --> 01:01:00,655
all we all know why It's a Wonderful
1839
01:01:00,655 --> 01:01:01,635
Life is great,
1840
01:01:02,414 --> 01:01:04,175
but I I do I do consider that
1841
01:01:04,175 --> 01:01:04,755
a multiverse
1842
01:01:05,614 --> 01:01:07,474
story. Oh, absolutely. You definitely get an alternate
1843
01:01:07,535 --> 01:01:10,710
universe timeline. Yeah. You do. And and, actually,
1844
01:01:10,710 --> 01:01:12,869
in some ways, tonally, in some ways, it
1845
01:01:12,869 --> 01:01:15,269
kind of there's there's some similarities with the
1846
01:01:15,269 --> 01:01:17,690
shift as far as Yeah. So If
1847
01:01:18,070 --> 01:01:20,230
in fact, one of the reviews structure and
1848
01:01:20,469 --> 01:01:22,230
highlighted that. Highlighted that it was it's a
1849
01:01:22,230 --> 01:01:24,070
wonderful life meets the matrix, I think, was
1850
01:01:24,070 --> 01:01:26,195
what one of the reviews said it was,
1851
01:01:26,655 --> 01:01:28,655
which I think, you know, as a description
1852
01:01:28,655 --> 01:01:30,494
of the shift, probably not that bad.
1853
01:01:30,974 --> 01:01:32,335
I don't know that we're as good as
1854
01:01:32,335 --> 01:01:34,255
either one of those movies, but as far
1855
01:01:34,255 --> 01:01:36,335
as, like, the cinematic recipe, probably not too
1856
01:01:36,335 --> 01:01:38,175
far off. Yeah. Yeah. Put it in a
1857
01:01:38,175 --> 01:01:39,135
blender and
1858
01:01:39,454 --> 01:01:39,954
Yeah.
1859
01:01:41,010 --> 01:01:42,289
So what are you up to now then?
1860
01:01:42,289 --> 01:01:43,570
And this would be kind of the you
1861
01:01:43,570 --> 01:01:44,690
need to wrap up, but what are you
1862
01:01:44,690 --> 01:01:45,510
up to now?
1863
01:01:46,289 --> 01:01:49,090
So I am, I am working on on
1864
01:01:49,090 --> 01:01:50,469
a a few different things.
1865
01:01:51,329 --> 01:01:52,050
I have,
1866
01:01:52,610 --> 01:01:55,085
another novel that'll be coming out, next summer,
1867
01:01:55,085 --> 01:01:57,484
which I'm really excited about, called paper bag
1868
01:01:57,484 --> 01:02:00,125
mask, not science fiction. And, but but I'm
1869
01:02:00,125 --> 01:02:02,045
really excited about it. It's kind of a
1870
01:02:02,045 --> 01:02:04,684
breakfast club meets ocean's 11 type thing, which
1871
01:02:04,684 --> 01:02:06,304
is bizarre, but fun.
1872
01:02:06,924 --> 01:02:09,164
And then, I am writing another movie right
1873
01:02:09,164 --> 01:02:10,545
now. It is science fiction,
1874
01:02:11,219 --> 01:02:12,920
and it deals with at
1875
01:02:13,219 --> 01:02:14,900
least deals with themes that that would be
1876
01:02:14,900 --> 01:02:16,599
very familiar to a faith audience.
1877
01:02:18,179 --> 01:02:20,340
And, and I'm I'm really excited about that.
1878
01:02:20,340 --> 01:02:22,360
And I I think that probably has,
1879
01:02:23,525 --> 01:02:25,204
the best chance of of being the next
1880
01:02:25,204 --> 01:02:27,065
thing that that I do is called Glide.
1881
01:02:28,405 --> 01:02:29,844
And it kind of takes place in a
1882
01:02:29,844 --> 01:02:30,744
world where,
1883
01:02:31,364 --> 01:02:31,864
where
1884
01:02:32,164 --> 01:02:35,305
telekinesis has been turned into a commercial consumer
1885
01:02:35,445 --> 01:02:35,945
product.
1886
01:02:36,805 --> 01:02:38,760
So it's something I'm really, really excited about.
1887
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:41,320
And then, you know, the shift is also
1888
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:43,880
just, something that my brain keeps going back
1889
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:44,599
to. And,
1890
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:47,559
I would love one day to release, an
1891
01:02:47,559 --> 01:02:49,480
extended version of the film. There's so much
1892
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:51,099
that that we cut out of the movie.
1893
01:02:51,375 --> 01:02:54,275
And I love the opportunity to to revisit
1894
01:02:54,574 --> 01:02:56,735
that world someday. I don't know what context
1895
01:02:56,735 --> 01:02:58,335
or how that might happen, but I would
1896
01:02:58,335 --> 01:02:59,614
love to I'd love to be able to
1897
01:02:59,614 --> 01:03:00,195
do that.
1898
01:03:01,375 --> 01:03:01,875
Excellent.
1899
01:03:02,255 --> 01:03:05,954
So, the book is coming soon and it's
1900
01:03:06,170 --> 01:03:08,010
is it gonna be released broadly as far
1901
01:03:08,170 --> 01:03:09,849
because I'm all the ads I'm seeing for
1902
01:03:09,849 --> 01:03:11,690
it are are related to Angel Studios. Will
1903
01:03:11,690 --> 01:03:12,010
it be
1904
01:03:12,570 --> 01:03:14,010
Yeah. Right now, it's,
1905
01:03:14,329 --> 01:03:15,789
it's available for preorder,
1906
01:03:16,250 --> 01:03:18,010
on the Angel Studios store. You can go
1907
01:03:18,010 --> 01:03:18,670
to angel.com/shift
1908
01:03:19,530 --> 01:03:22,484
to novel. And, but once it's released, it'll
1909
01:03:22,484 --> 01:03:24,565
end up at Amazon. Okay. And so you
1910
01:03:24,565 --> 01:03:26,344
can just order it from there as well.
1911
01:03:26,405 --> 01:03:27,784
That's right. And then
1912
01:03:28,244 --> 01:03:30,644
the enhanced DVD or Blu ray? Yeah. The
1913
01:03:30,644 --> 01:03:33,960
Shift special edition, which just comes packed with
1914
01:03:34,199 --> 01:03:35,260
all kinds of stuff,
1915
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:37,099
4 different commentaries,
1916
01:03:38,199 --> 01:03:40,359
a black an entire black and white version
1917
01:03:40,359 --> 01:03:41,739
of the film, which is,
1918
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:44,599
really beautiful and honestly my preferred way of
1919
01:03:44,599 --> 01:03:46,039
watching the film now, and it's something that
1920
01:03:46,039 --> 01:03:47,500
I handcrafted it myself.
1921
01:03:47,905 --> 01:03:50,385
Okay. And then we got Ali Zoni? Yeah.
1922
01:03:50,385 --> 01:03:52,305
Very yeah. It it really it it does.
1923
01:03:52,305 --> 01:03:54,144
And it kinda going back to that original
1924
01:03:54,144 --> 01:03:54,644
inspiration.
1925
01:03:55,265 --> 01:03:57,425
And then we got outtakes and, you know,
1926
01:03:57,425 --> 01:03:59,905
behind the scenes features and an extended scene
1927
01:03:59,905 --> 01:04:03,079
and, and all kinds of stuff, animatic test
1928
01:04:03,079 --> 01:04:05,079
footage. The whole script is even in that
1929
01:04:05,079 --> 01:04:06,679
special edition. You can read the whole script
1930
01:04:06,679 --> 01:04:08,679
if you want. It's it's really it's the
1931
01:04:08,679 --> 01:04:10,360
kind of special edition that they used to
1932
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:12,760
make that they just don't make anymore because
1933
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:15,320
Yeah. You know, discs have are are not
1934
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:15,800
quite the,
1935
01:04:16,914 --> 01:04:18,674
the the mover that they are, you know,
1936
01:04:18,674 --> 01:04:20,514
in in the retail spaces they used to
1937
01:04:20,514 --> 01:04:23,634
be. But Angel very much believes in, you
1938
01:04:23,634 --> 01:04:26,034
know, that these these movies are special and
1939
01:04:26,034 --> 01:04:28,034
they deserve to be archived and treated well.
1940
01:04:28,034 --> 01:04:30,855
And so we really approached the special edition
1941
01:04:30,914 --> 01:04:33,769
as, you know, let's put everything we've got
1942
01:04:33,769 --> 01:04:36,650
into it. And, and this will serve as
1943
01:04:36,650 --> 01:04:39,050
as a as an incredible archive of everything
1944
01:04:39,050 --> 01:04:40,510
that the shift was and did.
1945
01:04:41,449 --> 01:04:43,210
Excellent. Well, Brock, thank you so much for
1946
01:04:43,210 --> 01:04:45,210
spending some time with me and hanging out
1947
01:04:45,210 --> 01:04:47,775
and Yeah. Thank you. But also talking about
1948
01:04:47,775 --> 01:04:49,635
your movie. Again, I recommend it.
1949
01:04:50,815 --> 01:04:52,574
Highly recommend it. I really enjoyed it the
1950
01:04:52,574 --> 01:04:54,175
second time. I really enjoyed it the first
1951
01:04:54,175 --> 01:04:54,675
time.
1952
01:04:55,695 --> 01:04:57,215
We'll see about the 3rd time. I don't
1953
01:04:57,215 --> 01:04:58,034
know. We'll see.
1954
01:04:58,494 --> 01:05:00,219
It might be too much. But for now,
1955
01:05:00,219 --> 01:05:02,780
1st and second time, definitely enjoyed it. So,
1956
01:05:03,180 --> 01:05:04,219
but yeah. And,
1957
01:05:04,539 --> 01:05:06,960
Yeah. Check it out. Check out the book,
1958
01:05:07,820 --> 01:05:10,700
and it's called The Shift. And as usual,
1959
01:05:10,700 --> 01:05:12,480
you could find us, strangers and aliens.com,
1960
01:05:13,244 --> 01:05:13,744
facebook.com/strangersandaliens,
1961
01:05:15,244 --> 01:05:15,744
youtube.com/strangersandaliens,
1962
01:05:18,605 --> 01:05:19,964
and we'd love to hear from you. Send
1963
01:05:19,964 --> 01:05:21,424
us an email to studioavery@gmail.com
1964
01:05:22,844 --> 01:05:24,764
if you have any comments or thoughts about
1965
01:05:24,764 --> 01:05:26,190
what we were talking about today.
1966
01:05:26,670 --> 01:05:27,150
And,
1967
01:05:27,710 --> 01:05:29,469
until next time. Thank you so much for
1968
01:05:29,469 --> 01:05:31,309
listening. Thank you so much for watching, and
1969
01:05:31,309 --> 01:05:31,809
God's
1970
01:05:58,570 --> 01:06:00,650
You've been listening to the Strangers and Aliens
1971
01:06:00,650 --> 01:06:03,550
podcast hosted by Ben Avery. Evan David.
1972
01:06:04,010 --> 01:06:07,210
Steve McDonald and doctor Jason O'Neil. Our music
1973
01:06:07,210 --> 01:06:09,449
was composed and mixed by Tim Lekel. We'd
1974
01:06:09,449 --> 01:06:11,175
love for you to join the conversation by
1975
01:06:11,175 --> 01:06:12,474
going to our website atstrangersandaliens.com,
1976
01:06:13,414 --> 01:06:15,575
where you'll find show notes, articles, reviews, and
1977
01:06:15,575 --> 01:06:18,215
more. You can also email us directly at
1978
01:06:18,215 --> 01:06:19,114
podcast atstrangersandaliens.com.
1979
01:06:20,454 --> 01:06:22,954
Or you can join our social media conversations
1980
01:06:23,175 --> 01:06:25,335
by following us on Twitter, where we are
1981
01:06:25,335 --> 01:06:26,380
at strangeandalien
1982
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:29,739
or liking us on Facebook at facebook.com/strangersandaliens.
1983
01:06:32,679 --> 01:06:34,440
Or leave us a voice mail by calling
1984
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:35,980
the Strangers and Aliens hotline.
1985
01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:38,140
That number is 1 804-3780.
1986
01:06:40,039 --> 01:06:41,855
Once again, thanks for
1987
01:06:46,155 --> 01:06:46,655
listening.