Splash Considerations Ep. 35: What Now? (feat. John Shea)

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Welcome to the season finale of Splash Considerations.
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My name is Justice Telosanto, San Francisco Giants B reporter for the Bay Area News Group, Standers Day, Mercury News, East Bay Times, whatever you want to call us, as long as you read, as long as you subscribe.
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And speaking of subscribe, subscribe to the YouTube channel, follow us on Apple, follow us on Spotify.
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A lot of things in this world cost a lot of money, but subscribing and following, those things remain free 99 and just a moment of your time.
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And for the season finale, we're bringing in the heavy hitter.
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We're bringing in the big righty that throws 100 and paints corners.
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We're bringing in the man that can do it all, that's seen it all alongside me.
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Unfortunately, alongside me because he sits right next to me in the press box.
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John Shea of the San Francisco standards.
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Shea, how we doing?
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Good to see you, Justice.
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You uh you good?
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You exhale?
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You free from everything?
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Have you relaxed?
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I was gonna ask you the same.
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I I've never this is the thing.
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I've never smoked a cigarette in my life, John.
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I never planned to.
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But when I got home on Sunday, I s when I slept in, it felt like I'd smoked like the first cigarette of my life.
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That's that's the only feeling I could compare.
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I don't know what it feels like.
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That's what I only imagine it could feel like.
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Shay, what about you?
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Well, try a cigar.
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That might be a little better.
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I got some that my dad's got some downstairs.
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I might have to grab some.
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What about you, Shay?
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How you feeling?
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Uh good.
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Yeah, it's always good.
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To step back and you know, see how you did versus the team.
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You know, did they step up?
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Did you step up?
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How well did they perform?
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How well did you perform?
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And um you look at the storytelling over the season, which you know we're blessed to do versus other sports.
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Uh our colleagues who cover football don't have the access on a daily basis that we have, so they don't have the opportunity for the same storytelling, you know, over a long six-month grind uh of a daily business.
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They're a weekly game.
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Basketball is a three times a week game, roughly.
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And it's uh it's a great opportunity to tell stories that um you know might not be told.
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You've done a lot of it.
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Uh, you did a great piece with Ron Washington, you've done some other uh stories of late that stood out, and good for you, man.
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It's all about being a little different, it's all about trying to be creative and provide contact, provide something that people love to read.
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And uh I've enjoyed hanging out with you this season.
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I guess maybe the second time, second year we've uh sat nearby.
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So uh ever since I moved to the standard, I've been down in your neck of the woods at the press box.
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So that's been cool.
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Thank you, Shay.
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I appreciate that as always.
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And we're gonna we're gonna get into some of the stuff that you've written.
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You've heard a lot of Hall of Fame stories this year.
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I mean, the the initial Kruok and Kype story, or Kite Kruko story rather.
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I remember the day shortly after his retirement.
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I mean, the one with you with doing him the split cast.
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I mean, there's just so many that we can count.
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But Shay, this is too much praise.
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If we if we sit here praising each other, we're gonna get away from what we need to do today.
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But you know, I I I mentioned Kruko.
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And I think that's actually we're gonna get into a lot of we're gonna get into a lot of bad vibes.
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I guess that's one way to say.
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We're gonna we're gonna, I guess, rip the team one more time.
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Um kind of get into the the meat and potatoes of kind of what went wrong here.
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But before we get into that, let's let's get a little sentimental.
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Let's let's start with the good vibes.
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And that obviously has to start with uh Mike Kruko's last game.
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And it was obviously always gonna be a very emotional last game.
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I think it kind of got turned up to the nth degree uh the prior Sunday when Dwayne Kuyper announced that he had throat cancer.
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And so you kind of have this kind of double whammy of things happening in that last week.
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And you know, both of them kind of mention it.
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They also they both thought it was gonna be a very emotional day, and Kuiper kind of sets the tone for that day with the the stick figure with the boiler, as Kruko said, and then obviously the Giants lose that last game.
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Christian Coss almost hit the almost hit the the go-ahead homer that was.
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It kind of was a little left of the foul pull, but they lose that game five to one in ten innings, but there was a lot of fans that were still there after the that game ended.
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I think I think you even mentioned to me when a lot of fans left after the game's like, what are these guys doing?
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What are they doing?
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Why are they leaving?
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There's a lot of fans that left, but you know, the speeches after the game were phenomenal.
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Krucos in particular just knocked it out of the park.
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It was it wasn't about him, it was about everybody that helped him along the way.
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Just starting here, Shay, you've obviously known Mike for a very long time.
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Just what was that day like for you?
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What was your impressions of that day overall and some of the speeches that were made during that day?
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You never want the glory days to end.
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And I'm not talking wins and losses, I'm talking relationships and seeing the same folks every day who have a smile on their face.
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And you know, Willie McCovey was in a chair.
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He had a smile on his face every day.
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If anybody had a right to be better about baseball, about life, uh, about what happened to his knees over the course of his playing career with all the terrible artificial turfs that McCovey played on, it was him.
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Yet he came to the park every day up until his final year at age 80.
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Um, upbeat, optimistic, and that's why we have the Willie Mack Award, because he was so inspirational.
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And now that award is given out every year, went to Logan Webb this year.
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It very well could have gone to Mike Kruko because he has every right to be upset at the world.
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Why me with this unfortunate disease that is plaguing him and that forced him into retirement uh a little bit early?
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Even though most people his age are really retired, he didn't want to retire.
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He's got this job where you could just keep going.
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You you talk for a living, that's not digging ditches.
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And uh it's unfortunate, but it was more, I think last Sunday, a celebration than uh pity, sadness, uh bitterness, and um, you know, it so it it was just so amazing that Kruko didn't talk about himself at all in his speech, he just talked about everybody else.
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And at the Hall of Fame, you see speeches where the inductees talk about themselves, their journey.
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You know, what I did as a kid, what I did in the minors, what I did once I got to the big leagues, and what I did to win this award.
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Kruko never said aye.
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It was always you, and he called out everybody, and called including you and me.
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He called out the reporters, he called out the reporters.
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That's how inclusive he was.
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And I mean, no, who does that?
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Only Mike Kruko.
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Only Mike Kruko.
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Um, but you mentioned the Hall of Fame right there, and and Shay, I don't I don't think we need to go 12 rounds in on this discussion.
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I think we're both kind of in the same boat here as far as them going into the Hall of Fame together.
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And, you know, one of the last real feature stories that I wrote, I talked to a lot of you know younger broadcasters around the league, Brian Anderson, Books Giambi, Dallas Braden, even you know, former teammates like Mark Grant and Bob Brentley, and they were all in agreement that you know these guys need to go in together.
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And you know, for the younger guys, they really helped make you know, Kruko helped really, you know, kind of pave the way for them to make them feel comfortable.
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And again, we don't have to get into the actual discussion.
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I think we're both in agreement, but I think if anything, I think Sunday afternoon affirmed that if they were to go into the Hall of Fame together, it would be an all-time speech.
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It would, they would have to the broadcasters, they don't get the big stage.
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Like that's only for the players.
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They would have to give them the big stage on that day.
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And they would just they could just let him ramble for 30 minutes, not ramble, but they could let him, you know, give them the ball ISO off the wing for 30 minutes, and no one would be upset at all.
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I would suggest each is deserving of his own day in Cooperstown.
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Why do they have to go in together?
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Unfortunately, neither has gone in yet.
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Say if Kuiper went in five years ago, and we're not talking going in as a Hall of Famer.
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We're going, we're talking about being a recipient of the Ford C.
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Frick Award.
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That doesn't mean you're a Hall of Famer, although people say a Hall of Famer, John Miller.
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I mean, technically, that's incorrect, but we can all be you know praiseworthy of John and say, yeah, you're a Hall of Famer, because you won an award at the Hall of Fame.
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But technically, it's just winning an award at the Hall of Fame.
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Um, they have a lot of awards.
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That's probably the biggest they give out for non-players.
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And since the 70s, they've only given it out to one person per year, um, except for the first award uh they gave out to two people.
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Uh Barbara Mellet.
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Yeah, I mean, that was New York, New York, and that was a big deal.
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And then they said, well, shoot, we might run out of guys.
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Let's just do it once a year.
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Um, so I mean, Russ Hodges and Lon Simmons were the first broadcast team in the San Francisco era.
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They went in independently.
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Uh, they won the award in separate years.
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Um, Hodges had done it a long time in New York before coming to San Francisco, and Lon was a lot younger.
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But still, it's like, well, yeah, everyone says they should go in together.
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I think they should go independently and have their own day, right?
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But uh the next best thing is to go in together.
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And Jane Forbes Clark, the chair of the board in Cooperstown, uh kind of kind of a stickler uh for tradition, though don't ask Barry Bonds about that because they're kind of manipulating the voting system.
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And the result is Barry's not a Hall of Famer, taking away five of our years of the voting process, and the writer side going from 15 to 10.
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Jim Rice went in 15th year, bonds definitely would have gone in if the rules still applied because he was trending, he got up to 65%.
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And then the veterans committee, hey, if you get fewer than five votes, you're not on the next ballot three years from now.
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It was kind of okay, that's another way to keep Barry out.
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That's unfortunate, and that comes from the top.
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And while uh the president of the Hall of Fame, Josh Rowicz, uh, would probably love Kruko and Kuiper to come in together.
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I mean, they need stuff like that.
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They need Barry Bonds.
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Attendance at the Hall of Fame last year at the induction ceremony was like an all-time low, 12,000.
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It used to be when Gwynne and Ripkin and all those guys, it was up 40,000, 50, 60, one year 75,000 people.
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Even Ishiro the year before, an international icon, that drew 20,000.
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So they need people like Bonds.
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They need people like Kruko and Kuyper.
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So a whole bunch of fans, including from the West Coast out here, will just flood the streets of Cooperstown induction weekend.
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So, yeah, we'd all we'd all love to see it, and that's sooner than later.
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Uh Bob Costa says pretty much everybody on the voting board is on board with that because all they have to do is look at the ballot.
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They don't make the ballot, they vote for the ballot, and unfortunately, they haven't been in as a tandem.
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Maybe someday they will, especially after this weekend.
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I would I would encourage every Giant fan to send a video of that ceremony to Jane Forbes Clark, put the pressure on, say, hey, look at what these two dudes mean to each other, look what they mean to the community.
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Go back and research how good they've been.
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Yeah, and I remember when Shana and I had this conversation like way back, well, not way back, it was during the summer and we were discussing Kruko's retirement.
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It is a very, you know, it is a kind of that nebulous spot journalistically where it's like you do need to, there's like a level of impartiality that you still need to have, but it's also like these two dudes were the the voices of my childhood.
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And even like behind me, if you could see it, that's where my PlayStation 2 is.
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And I'm glad Dwayne Kuyper mentioned the video game thing during his speech.
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Like it was very subtle, but to me is very meaningful because I mean the work that they I'm not gonna go on the baseball the video game rant, but like the work they did on MVP baseball 03, 04, and 05 was fantastic, and they were a voice of for even non-Giants fans.
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And so, you know, the impact that these two have had, just not in San Francisco, but again, I mentioned it with some of the broadcasters that they touch, like the Milo Hamilton prank, where they're like, hey, Brian Anderson, you should go do that with Milo, and then Milo Brian Anderson does it.
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Milo's furious, and then then when they go back, they start throwing out these full-size bags of Cracker Jack.
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Like, it's it's only them that you can really get that from, and they've just been such a long-standing duo, they're a testament to just the power of friendship as a whole.
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And yeah, it's I understand tradition, like all these books behind me.
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That's there's a lot of tradition in a lot of those books.
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There's a lot of tradition in the books that you have behind you as well.
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We got a couple of your books behind me as well, Shay.
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There's there's a couple in there, but I say Alex Pavlovich, I think I have the same.
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It's in there.
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Shout out to Babs.
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But you know, at the same time, it is a museum, and a museum is supposed to serve the people.
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And I remember I don't think this ended up making the story just because this could have been a novel, but I remember Brian Anderson mentioned to me, like, I would love if some someone was like taking their grandkids there one day and just like look at the the two-faced plaque of Kruok and Kuype and say, like, that was one of the best right there.
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And what's next?
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It's going to be Dwayne Kuyper and a collection of folks that we probably are uh aware of anyway, from Javi Lopez to Sean Estes to Hunter Pence, who'll probably be in a rotation system with um, you know, Kruko obviously didn't cover every home game because you had all these streaming services come in and use their own guys, unfortunately.
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So that took time away from people listening to Kruko for a day.
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But he he did at least 70 home games and 21 split casts.
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So you have almost a hundred spots that have to be filled next year.
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Um, and that's going to be difficult.
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Pence lives in the city, uh, Lopez lives back east, Estes lives in Arizona.
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That's not to say Lopez couldn't come in for a couple of weeks and call some games, but I think all arrows are pointing to a rotation basis, at least for now.
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And I spoke with Will Clark about it.
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He would love to do it.
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Folks like that, if they could recruit Barry Bonds to the booth for a weekend or a homestand, I mean, the ratings would go through the roof.
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People would love to hear Barry talk uh hitting, would love to hear Will talk anything.
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And Kruko has always been the pitching guy.
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Nobody breaks down pitching like he he, I've written twice that the Giants need to hire him as an advisor to the pitching staff and and the pitching coaches, because we see every day how he breaks down the art of uh you know pitching, pitchers, uh tendencies, um, everything about the game from from uh up on the hill.
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So um, yeah, it it's it's gonna be unfortunate because you know, my childhood, I I remember watching Frank Robinson, and they had great Frank Robinson stories because they both played for the man here in San Francisco.
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But who's gonna be able to talk Frank Robinson with Dwayne Kuyper?
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Nobody.
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Nobody knows Frank Robinson like Kuyper and Kruko because they played for him and they had great behind-the-scenes stories.
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So um that conversation will be a one-man you know, conversation because the others don't know about Frank Robinson.
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They've never probably met him or experienced him or anything like that.
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Um so we won't see the same stories, but hopefully we'll see the same and experience the same color, um, the same liveliness, the same creativity.
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And it's not just about the game, it's about the crowd, it's about history, it's about the legacy of the team and sport.
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And you know, it's all it's all pro fans, right?
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It's all uh, you know, poking fun at fans or uh playing up fans or catering to the fans, and that's kind of the whole shtick that you know we kind of all loved over the years.
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So it's gonna be a little different, but it's good to have at least one of those gentlemen back in the booth next year.
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I mean, you mentioned the poking fun at fans.
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There was that uh there was that dad that kind of cost some heat there during that last week.
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And that was I I will say, did you did you read the story, the the Substack story that came out of that?
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Well, yeah, and our I Well let me let me provide the new side wrote that as well at the standard.
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We we we had somebody write that story, which kind of blew me away.
00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:48.000
Yeah, for for those who aren't familiar, like the very I think it was like the Friday game, and this was like the ultimate, like still has the fastball painting corners, 97 on black.
00:17:48.319 --> 00:18:01.839
It was this this mom who was carrying like three trays of food, but also had the kids strapped to her chest, and she gun like delivers the food, and then you know, the dad just starts like immediately eating it, and the mom's just like holding the food.
00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:06.880
But then the mom went on Substack and was like, hey, he's actually going through a lot.
00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:15.119
Um, but it kind of was, you know, not even obviously not knowing that context, it was still just some you know, good old-fashioned, you know, poking some fun.
00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:19.759
Although don't don't ever get on the internet and start throwing some barbs at people that you don't know.
00:18:19.839 --> 00:18:21.440
Don't don't don't make it weird, don't make it personal.
00:18:21.519 --> 00:18:23.039
Some people were making it personal, Shay.
00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:24.640
Never heard that on the internet before.
00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:29.839
And Kruk Kruko's line was the the the the dad's asking, hey, where's the catch up, sweetie?
00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:31.119
And and that was funny.
00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:43.599
It shouldn't be uh, hey, there's all kinds of Reddits and uh posts on the internet about uh the this sucker, you know, why doesn't he man up and help the wife and the kid?
00:18:43.759 --> 00:18:47.200
You know, it's it's it's it's 10 seconds of their life.
00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:49.279
Don't judge them, stay away.
00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:53.680
It just appreciate the moment, appreciate the humor, appreciate Kruko and Kuiper.
00:18:54.240 --> 00:19:05.680
Yeah, it was just one of those final moments where it was like, and again, it's just this terrible disease that is preventing him from doing this job because John Miller's made this point a couple times, and I'm sure he's made it to you as well.
00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:08.880
Like, Kruko is still like really, really good at this.
00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:10.319
He's still like really good.
00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:14.160
Like you listen to a broadcast, and it doesn't, he hasn't missed a step at all.
00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:22.319
Like, just the knowledge of the game is I I had that privilege, like you mentioned, to be um at the studio for one of his broadcasts.
00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:30.319
You know, I got there a little before he did, I left after he did, so I was there pre and post, as well as the two and a half hour game.
00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:34.880
Um, the team was at Dodger Stadium, so it was one of the final split casts.
00:19:35.039 --> 00:19:51.680
So I saw him, you know, I might have poked in during a broadcast here and there over the years uh at the ballpark, but this was different because I was just a few inches from him, so I saw his body languages, I saw his focus, and he's as good off the air as he and as he is on the air.
00:19:51.759 --> 00:20:01.119
He's funny, he he's deep, he's uh intelligent, he he's witty, and he holds that baseball the whole time.
00:20:01.279 --> 00:20:03.839
It's not a stick just for the camera.
00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:05.759
He he's flipping it back and forth.
00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:07.759
He's probably doing it now as we speak.
00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:09.440
I mean, that's his life and blood.
00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:14.480
That's you know, the grip, um, the release, uh, the arm slot, all that stuff.
00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:16.160
He could talk, but but he but he can't.
00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:18.559
It's like Linus in the security blanket.
00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:21.519
And and and and that's that's what it does for him.
00:20:21.759 --> 00:20:24.960
He's he's at home when he's got a baseball in his palm.
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:30.559
And uh, so yeah, he constant research, constant homework, non-stop.
00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:33.519
It's just not okay, I'm stepping back between innings.
00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:36.319
I'm gonna see who texted me or you know what's trending.
00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:48.400
No, he's going over different uh you know uh pitching stats and umpire stats and tendencies, and and there's so much involved, and and he's still focused.
00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:54.480
I mean, he was working on the pronunciations of some of these new Dodgers an hour before the broadcast.
00:20:54.640 --> 00:20:56.799
I mean, he just needed to get everything right.
00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:04.480
While it looks cool and breezy on the air, there's ultra focus pregame and between innings.
00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:12.559
So it's like he could have just jaked it in those final weeks and said, you know what, I I'm just gonna casually bow out here.
00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:17.920
No, he he took it seriously all the way to the end, including with that amazing speech.
00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:21.279
Professionalism until the very end.
00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:35.200
Um, given the current state of this current Giants team, that might be that that might be something that uh you would hope that the this current iteration of the team can you know take and take with them moving forward to the offseason.
00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:41.119
It's funny, Shay, you mentioned that you know you you're kind of pounding the table for him to have maybe some type of role in the pitching department.
00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:55.519
And Shay, given how this season went, there there might be some occupancies on the on the pitching s side of things going forward because while it was fun to talk Kruok and Kype, while it was fun to reminuche, it's time to talk about the twenty twenty six San Francisco Giants.
00:21:55.759 --> 00:21:56.400
Okay, that's a wrap.
00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:57.200
That's a wrap.
00:21:57.359 --> 00:21:58.000
All right, we're done.
00:21:58.240 --> 00:21:58.640
We're done.
00:21:58.960 --> 00:22:02.240
It was great talk Okay, let's go.
00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:02.960
All right.
00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:03.599
Jay.
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:05.519
Let's get the final tally here.
00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:07.119
Let's get the final tally here.
00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:08.799
65 and 97.
00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:12.480
It's the third most losses since they have moved to San Francisco.
00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:17.279
They have missed the playoffs in nine of the last 10 seasons.
00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:25.200
They tied the record for the most players used in a single season, that being 71, tying the 2025 Atlanta Braves.
00:22:25.279 --> 00:22:26.720
And I just want to note this right here.
00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:29.359
That did not include Zach Morgan.
00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:30.960
The debut never had.
00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:36.640
Do you want to stop right here before we go any further about how this kid just didn't get his debut, or should we keep going?
00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:37.440
Tell me.
00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:46.000
I mean, so I think this was I think multiple fronts kind of fell short here.
00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:51.119
Because obviously when Zach Morgan first got called up back in like August, he was a giant for like 12 hours.
00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:53.279
They they signed Andrew Kisner like right after.
00:22:53.359 --> 00:22:54.640
They just needed a guy.
00:22:55.039 --> 00:22:58.160
He got there in like the fourth inning because he was flying in from Vegas.
00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:00.720
Like, okay, you're not going to make your debut then.
00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:03.119
But then they called him up September 1st.
00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:08.079
And he was with the team for about seven games until they optioned him on September 8th.
00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:17.440
And I I know that Tony Vitella was really like banging the table that final weekend for him to get called back up, but it was September.
00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:18.799
They were out of it by then.
00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:23.359
Andrew Kisner and Drew Kavanaugh did not need to start every one of those games.
00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:25.039
With all due respect to the two of them.
00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:32.559
And then the final weekend, Tony says, Come hell or high water, Zach Morgan's going to be on the roster.
00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:37.920
And I guess hell and high water are here, Shay, because Zach Morgan never got called up.
00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:40.799
And let's be real, he's 27.
00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:45.200
He's probably not going to be part of, like, he's probably going to be part of the purge of guys.
00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:49.440
Because again, there's the next note I have is there's 17 guys on the 60-day IL.
00:23:50.079 --> 00:23:55.839
And obviously, if they played Zach Morgan, that would have given them the record because they also brought back Camilla Duvall.
00:23:57.200 --> 00:24:01.200
And maybe there was some like Tony said there was a sensitivity to the number.
00:24:01.279 --> 00:24:02.400
He he literally said that.
00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:05.200
You can presume that there was, you know, they didn't want to break the record.
00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:09.519
I think that's that's not outlandish to say, based off what Tony said.
00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:16.000
But the record's probably going to be broken anyways, like in the next two years.
00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:19.839
Like, this isn't like the all-time home run record where it's going to be there forever.
00:24:20.079 --> 00:24:24.720
It'll be gone in a year, especially with the lockout and all the uncertainty and like what might happen.
00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:28.880
Um, I just thought it was in very poor taste uh all around.
00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:37.039
Um I I said it to you after he initially got sent down in August, like when he was there for like 12 hours.
00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:39.599
I was like, this kid's a phantom ball player now.
00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:41.599
And he was like, Dang, you're gonna say that to him.
00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:44.960
I was like, I mean, it's true, like he's been on a roster and he didn't play.
00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:53.359
And now he's like really a phantom ball player because he's been on the roster for like or in around the team for like two weeks, and he didn't get a chance to play.
00:24:53.440 --> 00:24:58.000
And and again, he's a he grew up in Stockton, he's a Giants fan.
00:24:58.240 --> 00:25:09.359
It it would have been a perfect moment for him, and it would have been a nice in that's the one thing that Tony said is that in a season so abysmal, you've had these nice moments, and that would have been a really nice moment for the kid.
00:25:09.519 --> 00:25:09.920
Good call.
00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:12.480
And I say kid, he's the same age as me.
00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:23.839
But he's a kid, and that moment, if we're being uh honest, it's probably not gonna arrive anymore, unless like a lot of things fall into fall into place next year.
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:25.119
Who would you blame?
00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:27.039
The front office or the coaching staff?
00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:38.880
I mean, I think initially, I think Vitello, just during that seven games in September, like there there was an opportunity to play him, like pinch run, pinch hit something.
00:25:39.119 --> 00:25:51.039
But then once you get to the final weekend, I think someone should like Posey, Manassian, somebody in the brass should have had the emotional intelligence to say, like, hey, like this record doesn't matter.
00:25:51.200 --> 00:26:01.359
It really like it's not like it's front and center, like this isn't gonna make national headlines, like it's it really only matters in San Francisco, and it's not gonna matter in about a week.
00:26:01.519 --> 00:26:04.319
It's just gonna be like a like a talking point we all use.
00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:13.200
So I think there's blame to go all around for this, but I do think my tello should have played him earlier, and then once the final weekend arrived, I think they should have just added into the roster.
00:26:13.359 --> 00:26:15.279
Like there was guys injured, anyways.
00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:17.920
Like Wilkinson didn't pitch, Perdomo didn't pitch.
00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:19.279
There was an opportunity.
00:26:19.759 --> 00:26:24.720
The the the problems and issues on this team are so much greater than what we're talking about right now.
00:26:24.880 --> 00:26:33.359
Like, who the heck who the heck cares about a record that we didn't even know who the previous leader of the pack was?
00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:36.240
Did you know that the Braves used more than any other team?
00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:40.960
No, I I didn't know until we started getting up there, and it was like, oh, they're gonna tie.
00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:42.799
I that's when I found out.
00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:48.079
I think we did know who had the record before Barry Bonds broke it, wasn't it Hank Aaron?
00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:49.839
Yeah, but that's it.
00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:51.680
So it's a little important.
00:26:52.240 --> 00:27:06.079
And and losing 97 and having 17 guys on the 60 man, 44 uh uh IL stints all season, more than any other team, more days than any other team.
00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:09.759
Uh they don't walk, they don't steal well, they did at the end.
00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:16.400
Um, they don't defend well, they don't use a lot of common sense or uh practice good fundamentals.
00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:21.440
Um there's some poor choices in-game with the bullpen.
00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:28.480
Um there were some uh iffy moments on you know lineup construction or whatever.
00:27:28.720 --> 00:27:33.119
Um there were uh there were awful starts by the big money guys.
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:36.400
Uh off the field, things were not good.
00:27:36.640 --> 00:27:38.480
On the field, things were not good.
00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:40.960
And we care about a record.
00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:43.440
You are a record holder already.
00:27:43.680 --> 00:27:45.519
You're you're tied with the Braves.
00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:46.720
Does one more matter?
00:27:46.880 --> 00:27:48.720
Okay, now you're not tied with the Braves.
00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:49.680
Is that a thing?
00:27:49.920 --> 00:27:51.599
I I would hope that's not a thing.
00:27:51.680 --> 00:28:02.319
I would hope nobody behind closed doors said, you know, we can't bring this kid up and let him play because then we'll be all alone with the most players used in the season.
00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:03.519
It's so meaningless.
00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:08.640
The season's already been so embarrassing.
00:28:09.039 --> 00:28:17.440
This is like that, like, and it's it's like kind of one final cherry on top to like one final embarrassing thing.
00:28:17.599 --> 00:28:18.799
That's kind of what it feels like.
00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:24.240
Everything like the prior six months happened, like you can't erase that.
00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:26.240
At least let this kid have his moment.
00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:28.160
That that's that's all I'll say.
00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:29.920
And you you mentioned the bizarre.
00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:31.680
Shay, I think you know this.
00:28:31.759 --> 00:28:35.839
I've had a running list of all the bizarre things that have happened.
00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:56.000
But before before I get into them, do you have a fake like a I don't know if favorite is the right word, but of all of like the non-baseball and maybe even some baseball things in here, of all like the really weird, odd things that have happened this year, what's the one that sticks out to you the most?
00:28:56.160 --> 00:28:57.839
Because there's a lot to choose from.
00:28:58.079 --> 00:29:00.640
See, Giant fans are different than Ace fans.
00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:06.480
Ace fans did goofy things, Giants thing fans did professional things.
00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:16.319
Like in 10, 12, and 14, if anybody tried to dump Gatorade on Madison Baumgartner in a post-game interview, he would have kicked your ass.
00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:17.119
Right?
00:29:17.599 --> 00:29:18.400
Don't go there.
00:29:18.559 --> 00:29:21.759
Buster didn't want it, the Brandons didn't want it.
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:26.480
But now it's like a thing, and I I kind of cringe every time that happens.
00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:29.759
Not to pick on Willie Adamas, but he's the guy.
00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:32.319
They made a bobblehead of him pouring Gatorade.
00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:45.599
And I think the worst thing that I saw all year was when he was at second base chatting with Mookie Betts, and then on a fly ball to the outfield, he started running off the field.
00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:50.319
Little did he know there weren't two outs, there was one out, and he got doubled off.
00:29:50.480 --> 00:29:59.680
And it was such a terrible look that he was chatting with the guy, forgetting how many outs there were, maybe not even knowing how many outs there were in the first place.
00:29:59.839 --> 00:30:00.960
And you just can't do that.
00:30:01.119 --> 00:30:02.160
I don't care if you're Mr.
00:30:02.319 --> 00:30:02.640
Social.
00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:08.559
Willie Mays was one of the most social guys on the field before games afterwards.
00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:13.680
Uh I mean, he went out with Dodgers after Brooklyn Dodgers, New York Giant game.
00:30:13.759 --> 00:30:14.880
Those were his buddies.
00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:17.279
Junior Gilliam was one of his best friends.
00:30:17.359 --> 00:30:19.359
So after every game, they would go out.
00:30:19.680 --> 00:30:29.039
McCovey told me once that he couldn't he couldn't just imagine being like Mays at all because McCovey never talked to anybody.
00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:33.119
Even if a guy got on first base and they're holding him, he would never say a word to them.
00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:34.319
Before the game, never.
00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:39.200
But Mays was at the batting cage, kind of yucking it up with the opposition every day.
00:30:39.440 --> 00:30:42.079
But he always knew how many outs there were.
00:30:42.319 --> 00:30:44.559
You gotta focus during the game.
00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:54.480
And I don't think Mays ever turned to Maury Wills and started yucking it up, and then with a fly ball, started running off the field thinking that's the third out.
00:30:54.720 --> 00:30:55.200
Never.
00:30:55.440 --> 00:31:02.960
You just don't do that as a baseball player, as the highest paid uh free agent that the Giants ever signed.
00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:11.119
Buster Posey signed you, broke his own record, speaking of records, as the highest paid giant ever, and now he's given it to the shortstop.
00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:13.839
There a lot comes with that.
00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:21.839
Leadership comes with that, and accountability comes with that, and intelligence and in-game awareness comes with that.
00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:24.400
And he's he's been a problem, man.
00:31:24.480 --> 00:31:26.319
His defense was not good.
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:27.119
What was it?
00:31:27.279 --> 00:31:34.960
Negative 17 um outs above average, and that's negative 17 outs above average, and he missed the last month in change.
00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:40.160
So he could have been negative 20, because that compiles and as the season goes.
00:31:40.400 --> 00:31:41.440
So I don't know.
00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:45.680
That that really said a lot about your 2026 Giants.
00:31:46.720 --> 00:31:48.400
Well, I'll say this, Shay.
00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:49.759
I'll say this.
00:31:50.480 --> 00:32:02.240
If that was the if that was the most controversial, bizarre thing that happened this season, I think I think with what we know now, Shay, I think the Giants would have taken that.
00:32:02.400 --> 00:32:07.119
Because there's been so much more that that has happened over the course of the season, but it is a good point.
00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:11.519
That was a really weird, not that was weird, not weird, that's not the right word.
00:32:11.680 --> 00:32:20.640
That was a very um it's a really bad moment for Adamus, and what was a really bad season for him overall, and we'll get into Adamus uh as a whole.
00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:24.960
And then I think we also have to note that Tony Vitello did not bench him the next day.
00:32:25.039 --> 00:32:30.720
I think that would have been a really good early use of authority, but you know, he kind of let that slip through his fingertips.
00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:42.960
And again, we'll get into Vaitello as a whole, but before we get into the you know, the meet again, kind of dissecting you know the season as a whole as well as the end of season press press conference.
00:32:43.119 --> 00:32:48.240
I do I do kind of want to list off some of the greatest hits from this year, Shay.
00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:50.799
Well, do you have 97 of them, one for every loss?
00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:52.400
I should have.
00:32:53.119 --> 00:32:54.400
There could have been a lot of ways.
00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:57.279
You could have gotten we we could have gotten there.
00:32:57.359 --> 00:32:58.799
We could have gotten there pretty easily.
00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:19.839
But uh among the greatest hits from this season, Shay, you got Matt Chapman yelling at Casey Schmidt to catch the effing ball, the entire Cincinnati Reds saga, which was concluded by Eric Miller, former giant now Eric Miller, uh flipping off the Reds and cussing out the dugout, which feels like a million years ago at this point.
00:33:20.079 --> 00:33:32.799
You had the outfielders dry humping each other after a win at Dodgers Stadium, uh losing both ends of a doubleheader in Philly on on walk-off fashion and not using the 27th man when he flew across the country to be there.
00:33:33.039 --> 00:33:35.279
Uh the Dalton Rushing saga.
00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:37.920
I don't know if you remember that one.
00:33:38.079 --> 00:33:41.119
Uh Bryce Eldridge getting called up and not playing immediately.
00:33:41.200 --> 00:33:44.480
That was kind of like a weeks-long thing, but that was still a very bizarre moment.
00:33:45.119 --> 00:33:56.720
Um, the entire Pride Night debacle, which kind of the headline by the vice president of the United States uh sub-tweeting the Giants, which I don't know if you had that on your bingo card, Shay.
00:33:56.960 --> 00:33:58.720
I most certainly did not.
00:33:59.359 --> 00:34:13.519
There was Tyler Malley, former Giant Tyler Malley, who just pitched seven innings of one run ball yesterday for the Atlanta Braves, the Atlanta Giants at this point, uh saying he didn't know what his pitch count was coming off of injury.
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:18.719
Uh Keaton Wynne going to the injury list after three straight days of pitching, something that he'd never done before.
00:34:19.039 --> 00:34:20.000
Including two cities.
00:34:20.239 --> 00:34:22.000
Including two, including a 4 a.m.
00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:29.519
flight to get back to San Francisco, uh, the Patrick Bailey trade, which is very shocking, removing Hector Borg as the third base coach.
00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:37.039
The Kyle Harrison revenge game in Milwaukee, and Kyle Harrison's kind of tapered off since then.
00:34:37.360 --> 00:34:41.280
Um the Willie Adamas forgetting how many outs there were.
00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:44.159
There was the Rafael Devers waving off a pinch runner.
00:34:44.320 --> 00:34:48.320
There was Logan Webb quibbling with a KBR producer.
00:34:48.480 --> 00:34:52.880
There was the Wayne Randazzo Apple TV Willie Adamus incident.
00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:58.800
There was uh Logan Webb and Tony Vitello and Ron Wotis being ejected in like 12 hours.
00:34:58.880 --> 00:35:02.559
Ron Wotis, not even a coach, being ejected in the dugout.
00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:09.599
There was Bryce Eldridge bumping his head and missing the rest of the season at a hotel in LA.
00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:20.960
There was Jung Hoo Lead somehow fouling a ball off and hitting himself in the groin, despite that being like a really weird angle and him missing the rest of the season.
00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:25.280
There was the Philip Abner decision in LA, which is like two weeks ago.
00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:30.400
That was the night that that was the night I was with Kruko, and he was like in between innings.
00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:31.360
What are they doing?
00:35:31.519 --> 00:35:32.639
Why is this guy in the game?
00:35:33.199 --> 00:35:35.519
And then he kind of made that point in-game as well.
00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:43.119
That was if we're talking about you know decisions from front to back, like that was just very questionable.
00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:47.920
And I I talked to a manager, another an opposing manager after the fact, and I asked, Would you have done that?
00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:49.519
And it was a very firm no.
00:35:50.320 --> 00:35:53.679
And and I guess this is maybe the last final thing.
00:35:53.760 --> 00:36:01.119
It was the uh the naked player on social media after Bo Davidson's debut.
00:36:01.519 --> 00:36:04.960
And I'm I'm pretty sure I'm I'm missing some stuff in there, even with all that.
00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:06.639
What did I what did I miss, Shay?
00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:07.760
Harrison Bader?
00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:09.679
Yes.
00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:10.880
I skipped right over it.
00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:13.440
Yes, Harrison Bader, 2 a.m.
00:36:13.599 --> 00:36:18.079
in the marina, crash in the scooter, and we'll we'll get to Harrison Bader and his status in a second.
00:36:18.159 --> 00:36:20.559
But Shay, I'll I'll ask you this question.
00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:23.440
You've covered a lot of Giants baseball.
00:36:24.639 --> 00:36:32.159
Where does this not not from the wins and losses perspective, because they've they've lost 100 before, they lost 98 in 2018.
00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:48.159
For you, among Giants seasons specifically, because I know you covered the Padres too, but where does this rank among the odd, bizarre, confounding, confuddling seasons that you've ever covered?
00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:54.960
Yeah, I mean, I the only source of history I would suggest is 92 when they were out the door.
00:36:55.519 --> 00:37:04.079
And and um the narrative was okay, uh, the A's are gonna be a one one-team market.
00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:07.360
Uh Will Clark's gonna play in Tampa Bay next year.
00:37:07.519 --> 00:37:11.119
Uh young Brandon Crawford at five years old is holding up a sign.
00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:12.320
Don't go.
00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:25.679
Uh there was there's a lot of awful stuff happening in that '92 season because Bob Lurie had a deal, a handshake deal with a group of investors in St.
00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:33.760
Petersburg, Florida, and they were gonna play in the trap, which is you know one of the two worst stadiums in in the country.
00:37:33.920 --> 00:37:35.280
Um what's the other one?
00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:36.800
Sacramento.
00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:51.199
It's not really a stadium, but uh, I mean, I I I'll probably call Las Vegas the worst stadium in in the country, uh, only because uh you know John Fisher just ruined it for so many people in the Bay Area.
00:37:51.440 --> 00:37:53.920
Um and what has he accomplished?
00:37:54.159 --> 00:38:01.199
So I yeah, I mean 92 was pretty bad, but this year it's just one after every every week it seemed there was something.
00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:06.400
Every single week, like we would sit in the press box and shake our head and said, Can you top that?
00:38:06.639 --> 00:38:08.480
And then the following week they did.
00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:22.800
And it and a lot of that has to do with a rookie manager who just stepped off a college campus, and now you're in the fire of the big leagues with no experience playing in the Pro Bowl, no experience coaching or managing.
00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:25.119
He had never even been to a spring training game.
00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:27.440
So a lot of that was almost predictable.
00:38:27.679 --> 00:38:32.000
Like, hey, we're gonna take advantage of this guy, we're gonna ride a scooter in the middle of the night.
00:38:32.079 --> 00:38:33.519
You know, nobody will catch me.
00:38:33.599 --> 00:38:36.320
I got a guaranteed contract for two years.
00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:38.400
Um, how many outs are there?
00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:39.920
Am I thrown to the right base?
00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:44.960
Uh um, I'm missing signs, I'm you know, there's not much accountability.
00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:48.000
So next year there has to be all kinds of accountability.
00:38:48.079 --> 00:38:49.440
They have to work on fundamentals.
00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:56.880
Unfortunately, spring training might only be three weeks if there's some kind of prolonged uh work stoppage with the lockout coming December 1st.
00:38:56.960 --> 00:39:04.239
So um it that that's kind of why I said punt on next year and let's let's play for 28, but that's another story.
00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:12.320
Well, well, that's a good transition into that because so it's currently Thursday, Tuesday was the end of season uh post-mortem.
00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:15.920
It was Tony Waitello, Buster Posey, and Zach Manassian.
00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:32.480
And you know, for a team that just lost 97 games and is in really bad, like really bad shape going forward, there was kind of a lot of optimism, like a lot maybe some unsubstantiated optimism with that press conference.
00:39:32.719 --> 00:39:41.679
And it's funny, like it's interesting, like the the only real like reality check, it was like minute 36.
00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:46.880
And I asked Buster, I was like, was there any has there been any talks about an extension for you?
00:39:46.960 --> 00:39:50.880
Because next season's your last season, and he said no.
00:39:51.039 --> 00:39:52.480
But then he kind of used that.
00:39:52.639 --> 00:39:57.519
He said, Well, you know, I've been sitting here and I want to say we don't have blinders on.
00:39:57.679 --> 00:40:03.199
That was not like for as well as the kids played in September, this was an awful season, the wins and losses weren't there.
00:40:03.519 --> 00:40:11.840
But for the majority of that press conference, Shay, and I'll let you jump in here, there was a lot of optimism that next year can be better.
00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:17.840
And the the one thing that made me it was kind of the I was sitting next to you during the press conference.
00:40:17.920 --> 00:40:21.599
I was trying to hold the microphone up to you because you let it go and you gave it to me.
00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:26.159
And Buster said, you know, we think we can contend next year.
00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:33.599
And then you proceed to say, because he's like, Because what?
00:40:33.760 --> 00:40:40.800
And then you know, you talk about the pitching, but it it was a good qu like the the question could have just ended right there, Shay.
00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:43.519
But you know, I'll I'll I'll I'll lob it over to you here.
00:40:43.599 --> 00:41:01.119
Just what were your impressions from how they handled Tuesday, just their overall tone, and I guess if you want to expand, because you know you wrote about this in the San Francisco Standard, go subscribe to the standard, uh, about why they should punt on 2027 and just focus on 2028.
00:41:02.079 --> 00:41:08.079
First of all, what what did you expect Buster Posey to say at this press conference 48 hours after the 97th loss?
00:41:08.159 --> 00:41:18.239
And and obviously, this kind of setup, we we see it every year, or we see it when a free agent is signed, or a new manager comes in.
00:41:18.320 --> 00:41:31.280
There's a group of reporters, and everybody has his or her agenda on what he or she will write, or broadcast, or podcast, or whatever, whatever reason they're there, they have their own agenda.
00:41:31.840 --> 00:41:36.559
So you're not gonna have the typical follow-up question.
00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:38.159
What do you mean by that?
00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:43.679
Lowell Cohn had the best follow-up question in the history of Bay Area Sports Journalism.
00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:45.039
What do you mean by that?
00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:46.800
And he would ask that all the time.
00:41:46.960 --> 00:41:49.440
Somebody would pour his heart out and what do you mean by that?
00:41:49.599 --> 00:41:51.360
I mean, that was typical Lowell.
00:41:52.559 --> 00:41:57.599
And a guy, you know, you want to learn from because the follow-up question is always key.
00:41:57.760 --> 00:42:11.679
And in a one-on-one, if you had Buster alone, you would have had the follow-up questions that might have been missing on Tuesday, because the format is the PR guys give us a microphone, we ask the question, and then we give the microphone back.
00:42:11.920 --> 00:42:17.199
Unless I had a, you know, the last time they gave it to me, I held it and asked a couple of questions.
00:42:17.360 --> 00:42:28.559
But mostly people ask the questions, give it back, and then it moves to somewhere else in the room with an entirely different topic because that's a prepared question by the next guy.
00:42:28.880 --> 00:42:36.800
So lacking the follow-up question, maybe we didn't get what we what you wanted, but I mean, what's he supposed to say?
00:42:36.880 --> 00:42:39.199
What did you want him to say that he didn't say?
00:42:39.920 --> 00:42:41.920
It wasn't necessarily what I wanted him to say.
00:42:42.079 --> 00:42:47.679
I just thought that there would be more of a a sternness to how the season went.
00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:50.880
Because again, he kind of saw it there and you know at the very end.
00:42:51.280 --> 00:43:03.920
But and you know, this has kind of always been their you know, Buster's thing, you know, you want to paint the optimistic tone, but I don't think it would have been like jarring if he was like that was unacceptable.
00:43:04.320 --> 00:43:10.239
I think I think kind of that, like just a more firm like that can't happen again.
00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:14.239
And I knew there was gonna be optimism, like there has to be optimism.
00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:20.400
You can't just sell this bleak picture and say, like, we're not gonna compete in 2027, we're not gonna do X, Y, and Z.
00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:32.639
But it felt like a little a lot of it for a team that has like a lot of, and you mentioned the pitching, like there's a there's a lot of holes on this team shame.
00:43:32.800 --> 00:43:33.920
We can talk about the pitching now.
00:43:34.079 --> 00:43:37.920
It's you know, how do they reconstruct a pitching staff?
00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:56.880
Because, you know, among the four guys that got TJ, like Hayden Birdsong might be the first one back, but you know, you have Hayden Birdsong who got his operation in on he got it on opening night, March 25th, Trevor McDonald in August, Carson Wisenhunt in September, and Blade Tidwell is gonna get it in about a week.
00:43:57.360 --> 00:43:59.119
But their depth is gone.
00:43:59.440 --> 00:43:59.840
Shay.
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:01.599
Like not not completely gone.
00:44:01.679 --> 00:44:08.239
Like you have Matt Wilkinson, Anthony Molina, Cesar Perdomo, you and your Marte, but none of those guys are proven.
00:44:08.320 --> 00:44:09.599
None of those guys are experienced.
00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:14.400
And if you're building a rotation right now, it's Webb, Roop, Hauser.
00:44:16.320 --> 00:44:17.119
And then that.
00:44:17.199 --> 00:44:18.320
Like that's your group.
00:44:18.480 --> 00:44:22.960
And I think they've combined for like maybe 70 innings, 75 innings.
00:44:23.440 --> 00:44:28.639
Well, no, Molina's pitched like 100 bit, but like among the rest of the three, it's like 75 innings.
00:44:28.960 --> 00:44:33.039
So that's not the foundation for a contending team.
00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:38.320
And I'll let you expand upon it there about why you think like 2027 should be more of a gap year.
00:44:38.800 --> 00:44:48.639
Well, first of all, your free agent window is limited because it starts five days after the last game of the World Series, and it will end December 1st when the lockout comes.
00:44:48.800 --> 00:44:51.920
No more negotiations can occur.
00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:55.840
Teams cannot talk to the players on the 40-man roster.
00:44:55.920 --> 00:44:57.119
They can't talk to agents.
00:44:57.199 --> 00:44:59.039
They can't uh negotiate contracts.
00:44:59.199 --> 00:45:01.760
They can't talk with other teams about trades.
00:45:02.320 --> 00:45:06.400
So we'll be in limbo for a month or two, or three, or four, or five, or six.
00:45:06.719 --> 00:45:15.760
And then once that ends, they'll rush three weeks of spring training at you and use that time to continue with the roster building.
00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:20.880
Like what they did in 2022 was cancel the rule five draft altogether.
00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:29.920
Why was that uh because they didn't, the union didn't want clubs filling up that roster, uh 40-man roster with prospects.
00:45:30.159 --> 00:45:32.639
They wanted these other free agents to be signed.
00:45:32.800 --> 00:45:37.760
So they said, you don't have to protect any of these guys from the rule five because there is no rule five.
00:45:37.840 --> 00:45:39.920
So these free agents are still available.
00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:40.880
Go go at it.
00:45:40.960 --> 00:45:48.079
And I remember Robbie Ray signed on the eve of the last lockout four years ago, a four-year deal, and he's a free agent again.
00:45:48.239 --> 00:45:59.599
He might not get that sweetheart deal that uh that he got last time because he's older and you know he's walk guys uh now in San Diego, and um you know he's not as young.
00:45:59.679 --> 00:46:05.760
But anyway, yeah, it's kind of the reason with all those guys undergoing Tommy John.
00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:12.000
I mean, that would have been the core, the core of your youth coming up to add to the rotation.
00:46:12.159 --> 00:46:32.719
Then you get another guy or two off the free agent market, or trade one of these young shortstops for a good starter coming up, maybe um ready to lead AAA and join a big league uh roster, big league rotation, um, and maybe another shortstop to get some kind of young closer potential.
00:46:32.960 --> 00:46:36.800
And you know, that's how you build the bullpen through trades in free agency.
00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:49.679
So yeah, I don't see I don't see them is especially because the the starters on the free agent market um you know behind behind Scooball is not deep.
00:46:49.760 --> 00:47:16.079
Although we saw Michael King the other day deal for the Padres, uh, you know, Peralta, Clay Holmes, um you know, guys like that, Robbie Ray, Kevin Gossman might come back on a one-year deal for fairly cheap, and he could be a good advisor to a young uh rotation, and he's one of uh Logan Webb's uh uh tutors back when both pitched together, you know, in 21.
00:47:16.239 --> 00:47:19.840
So, and that's when Logan kind of turned around his career.
00:47:20.159 --> 00:47:27.199
So I don't see a whole lot of time um for this front office to just build out of thin air a rotation.
00:47:27.280 --> 00:47:35.599
That's why I would suggest maybe get younger guys in here and and develop in 27 and then maybe try to contend in in 28.
00:47:35.679 --> 00:47:37.119
But you're talking about the rotation.
00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:42.000
I think the same question could be how are you gonna build up this this bullpen?
00:47:42.559 --> 00:47:46.960
Um I I will say then, and maybe this was a miss point that Buster could have used.
00:47:47.039 --> 00:48:00.880
He he told um the TK show, uh, you know, Tim Kawakami two weeks earlier that he wanted two veterans at the back end of the bullpen.
00:48:01.199 --> 00:48:04.159
I mean, if you said something like that Tuesday, that could have helped.
00:48:04.480 --> 00:48:06.159
But he did tell Tim that.
00:48:06.239 --> 00:48:07.440
And that's okay.
00:48:07.679 --> 00:48:17.039
So whether it's a trade or free agency, um, Morahone, the lefty, who you mentioned as a as a principal guy that they could attract.
00:48:17.360 --> 00:48:20.719
He's a lefty, he's a setup guy, but he could he could close here, right?
00:48:20.960 --> 00:48:23.039
He's gonna get so much money.
00:48:23.119 --> 00:48:27.360
Okay, like if if Tanner Scott got what, 72 million over four years, okay.
00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:29.599
Morahone's getting like 90.
00:48:29.760 --> 00:48:31.760
He's he's getting he's gonna get a bad.
00:48:32.159 --> 00:48:32.480
Wow.
00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:33.760
Maybe not then.
00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:35.360
Probably probably not.
00:48:35.519 --> 00:48:39.039
But you know, there are a couple guys with the righty with the Yankees.
00:48:39.360 --> 00:48:47.199
The the two guys that really stick out to me as far as you know, kind of in their price range that would actually help is David Bednar and Risella Glacius.
00:48:47.360 --> 00:48:54.320
Iglace is a little older, I think he's like 36, but you know, we just saw him yesterday with the Atlanta Braves, like his stuff still looks really good.
00:48:55.119 --> 00:48:59.679
But you know, it's it really is the question, you said it right there.
00:48:59.760 --> 00:49:04.000
It's like, how do you acquire the amount of pitching that you need?
00:49:04.800 --> 00:49:07.599
Like realistically, like you need eight starters to get through a season.
00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:23.119
And like the Dodgers are like in a different stratosphere, but like that's kind of like the ultimate on the far end of the spectrum of like we have enough starting, like you need like seven major league quality starting pitchers to get through a year, and like and then you have your depth after that.
00:49:23.360 --> 00:49:32.239
But if you look at the state of the rotation right now, it's a Logan Webb coming off of his worst season since he established himself as a full-time rotation guy.
00:49:32.320 --> 00:49:37.679
I do think that going into next year, I think we'll see more of it as a standard typical Logan Webb season.
00:49:38.400 --> 00:49:42.800
Landon Roop, ups and downs, pitched the most innings in his career.
00:49:43.199 --> 00:49:51.519
And I I would like to think that, you know, especially given some of the command issues that he dealt with, I that would be the thing for him to attack so that he can continue to pitch longer.
00:49:51.599 --> 00:49:54.239
But a good four or five starter, good four or five starter.
00:49:54.559 --> 00:49:57.599
Realistically, he's more of a four or five based on what we've seen.
00:49:58.559 --> 00:50:02.719
Adrian Hauser, who I we don't really know like the the flex attendant.
00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:05.519
I think I I need to go back and look at the medical report.
00:50:05.840 --> 00:50:08.559
But I think he should be fine for next year.
00:50:08.639 --> 00:50:13.199
But also when he was in the rotation, like it wasn't great.
00:50:13.360 --> 00:50:15.679
And yeah, like when he was in the bullpen, it was solid.
00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:18.559
He started to jump back into the rotation, they got injured.
00:50:18.719 --> 00:50:21.599
So you really don't know what you're getting there.
00:50:21.760 --> 00:50:29.679
And then again, you you know, you gotta have all of the the young kids, 24 and under, that have a little experience, but you don't want to go into the season with them.
00:50:29.920 --> 00:50:35.280
So how do you get the amount of quality pitching you need for a full season?
00:50:35.360 --> 00:50:38.559
And yeah, like Gaussman, someone like him would help, but like they're not getting school.
00:50:39.199 --> 00:50:47.920
Freddie Peralta's gonna make a lot of money, Michael King is gonna make a lot of money, and then you go from there, and it's just not a lot of great options as far aside from depth.
00:50:48.079 --> 00:50:51.519
And you know, I mentioned I mentioned this in one of my stories the other day.
00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:57.920
It's if you really want pitching, you're probably gonna have to give away like a good prospect.
00:50:58.000 --> 00:51:09.119
And I mentioned Bo Davidson as a concept, and it doesn't have to be him specifically, but like if you want a controllable young arm, it it's gonna be have to be someone like that.
00:51:09.199 --> 00:51:14.239
And I don't know if the Giants necessarily want to do that, given that next year is so nebulous.
00:51:15.039 --> 00:51:17.199
And that kind of leads to another point.
00:51:18.159 --> 00:51:29.840
And I know during the Far Han and Gabe era, it was so many openers, it was there was really kind of all of these creative ways to kind of maximize your staff.
00:51:29.920 --> 00:51:36.480
But I think you know, this year we kind of saw the opposite of it, where it's like Adrian Hauser's going out there, he's getting shelled.
00:51:36.800 --> 00:51:37.920
Why is an opener not?
00:51:38.400 --> 00:51:41.840
It took until like July or August for us to see an opener.
00:51:42.159 --> 00:51:49.920
So that's the other kind of part of this equation is like, can the Giants do more creative things with their staff to maximize whatever personnel they have?
00:51:50.000 --> 00:52:01.760
Like we saw with the Padres, like the game that sticks out to me, it was July 31st, they had Braggley Rodriguez one inning, Yuki Matsui for three innings, and then I I think Herman Marquez for five.
00:52:01.840 --> 00:52:06.159
Like it was very weird, but it worked, and that's how they maximized what they had.
00:52:06.239 --> 00:52:08.000
And so it's those two questions.
00:52:08.159 --> 00:52:10.880
Can you get enough pitching and can you be creative with the pitching you have?
00:52:11.039 --> 00:52:14.719
And I don't know if the Giants are going to be able to knock out either of those.
00:52:14.800 --> 00:52:17.119
And you know, maybe there's more of a conversation with the latter.
00:52:17.199 --> 00:52:21.119
I know openers aren't fun, but you gotta play the cards you're dealt.
00:52:21.199 --> 00:52:27.119
And it kind of felt like there was times when this, you know, Vitello and the coaching staff wanted to play a hand they weren't dealt.
00:52:28.960 --> 00:52:32.559
Yeah, we saw a lot of openers with Kappler and Farhan.
00:52:33.199 --> 00:52:40.880
The Houston Astros took 162 games to win their division, and they got to the playoffs, and their first game they used an opener.
00:52:41.440 --> 00:52:49.199
So that and granted, they were a 500 team and they just kind of backed in to uh to the postseason.
00:52:49.440 --> 00:52:52.159
But I the mighty AL West.
00:52:52.639 --> 00:52:57.440
The um, yeah, the Rangers, the the A's, the Angels, an up-and-coming division.
00:52:57.519 --> 00:52:58.159
Oh my goodness.
00:52:58.320 --> 00:53:01.199
But I uh you know, let me ask you something.
00:53:01.360 --> 00:53:07.920
Speaking of the the Kapler and Farhan era, obviously everything was pre-planned then.
00:53:08.239 --> 00:53:23.119
Um how to use pinch hitters, how to use the bullpen, they kind of gave uh uh a full autonomy to maybe not full, but a lot to to Tony Vitello to call the game himself.
00:53:23.440 --> 00:53:30.480
Um, you know, the Giants even confirmed that, you know, the front office by saying, yeah, we let him call the game.
00:53:30.639 --> 00:53:34.639
So those are his pitching moves, and that's his lineup.
00:53:35.519 --> 00:53:43.599
And uh, you know, Bob Melvin had had that luxury, not with Farhan, but with with Posey when he first came in.
00:53:43.679 --> 00:53:49.119
Because you know, Posey comes from the Sabian Bochi era, he saw that dynamic work.
00:53:49.440 --> 00:53:52.639
Like you trust your manager to make the right call.
00:53:52.719 --> 00:53:57.599
He should be good enough to draw up a good lineup and make smart moves with the bullpen.
00:53:57.840 --> 00:54:00.880
And if you need to pinch hit a guy, you pinch hit a guy.
00:54:01.440 --> 00:54:05.599
But the question to you would be do you think Tony Vitello needs that?
00:54:05.760 --> 00:54:15.280
Do you think he needs um direction from the front office to to draw up the lineup and and uh when to pinch hit and when to call in a bullpen guy?
00:54:15.360 --> 00:54:20.000
Do you think that he should kind of defer to the front office on those decisions?
00:54:22.719 --> 00:54:40.800
I don't know if he necessarily needs to defer, but I I will point out that throughout the year there was a lot of and and I never want to act like I know everything that's going on to a decision because I know you know we talk about left versus right, getting a left on left, getting a you know, getting those matchups.
00:54:40.880 --> 00:54:51.760
There's there is more that goes into it, especially when you talk about like swing tilts and things like that, and pri like this guy, his angle is this, and the bad angle is this, so that's a good matchup or a bad matchup.
00:54:51.840 --> 00:54:53.360
There's a lot of stuff that goes into it.
00:54:54.480 --> 00:55:00.719
But it was other things like the fact that Tony barely used his bench to start the year.
00:55:00.800 --> 00:55:10.960
Like Christian Coss was kind of just like collecting dust for a moment, or some of these like very odd you know, bullpen decisions, like when in the moment where we're kind of looking at each other, like, why is this the move?
00:55:11.039 --> 00:55:26.719
Like, I know the Abner one is kind of the extreme version, but there was some ones where remember during the Yankee series, like I think Ryan Barucki ends up facing Aaron Judge, and Aaron Judge hits one 500 feet, and you know, the splits are so extreme, it's like, why was that matchup allowed to happen?
00:55:27.119 --> 00:55:37.840
Um so it it does I kind of fall into the bucket of you know, the front office creates the team, the manager should have that opportunity to leave.
00:55:38.159 --> 00:55:39.519
You're old school, you're old school.
00:55:39.760 --> 00:56:02.079
I have a little bit of old school in me, but I do think that after having seen the season unfold, I think that there might a little more of like, hey, let's try this, let's do a little different, because you know, that was one of the big questions was you know, how is Tony Vitel just as a manager, as an in-game coordinator?
00:56:02.239 --> 00:56:07.199
And there were a lot of moments where he did look like a rookie manager with no professional experience.
00:56:07.280 --> 00:56:08.159
Would you agree?
00:56:08.639 --> 00:56:10.960
He got the most objections in in the big leagues.
00:56:11.039 --> 00:56:19.039
He was the Bobby Cox, uh uh not with not with how he called games, but with how he gave, you know, he got a lot of quick hooks.
00:56:19.119 --> 00:56:21.360
And maybe a lot of that was bully ball.
00:56:21.519 --> 00:56:23.760
Umpire said, Hey, welcome to the big leagues, kid.
00:56:23.840 --> 00:56:25.440
This ain't college ball no more.
00:56:25.599 --> 00:56:28.480
Don't don't threaten me, don't talk back to me.
00:56:28.800 --> 00:56:33.920
But he took a long time before he even learned how to yell at managers.
00:56:34.079 --> 00:56:38.159
He used to come out 10 or 15 feet and yell from 35 feet.
00:56:38.400 --> 00:56:40.559
No, you got to go up in the guy's face.
00:56:40.960 --> 00:56:45.519
And whether it's Tommy Lasor to him or not, you know, hey, some spit might come out.
00:56:45.679 --> 00:56:51.519
I I'm not gonna push you, but I'm gonna yell at you, I'm gonna put my cap backwards and I'm gonna give it to you.
00:56:51.599 --> 00:56:55.199
I'm gonna earn my ejection, I'm gonna earn that fine.
00:56:55.440 --> 00:56:58.320
But we even that was a slow development.
00:56:58.480 --> 00:57:04.079
I mean, it's like maybe in college you could yell from the dugout and get away from it, but he has to approach.
00:57:04.239 --> 00:57:10.800
So, like mid-season or later in the season, he kind of learned when I argue with these guys, I got to go up to them.
00:57:11.039 --> 00:57:14.000
In fact, one umpire said, You should have just come out to me.
00:57:14.159 --> 00:57:17.039
You know, don't say it from there, don't say it late after the fact.
00:57:17.199 --> 00:57:18.000
Remember that?
00:57:18.239 --> 00:57:23.599
So it it Tony Vitello admits it's an education, it's a learning experience.
00:57:23.760 --> 00:57:25.679
You just don't see that at the major league level.
00:57:25.760 --> 00:57:31.440
You'll see it in A-ball, double A, maybe even AAA, learning how to manage in Pro Bowl.
00:57:31.760 --> 00:57:34.159
But this is just uh a one-off.
00:57:34.239 --> 00:57:44.800
This is one of a kind where uh a coach comes in in his 40s who never has any experience in Pro Bowl, and now you're the man in charge and you have full autonomy.
00:57:45.039 --> 00:57:47.039
So it I've never seen it before.
00:57:47.119 --> 00:57:49.519
I'm used to calling on both sides of the bay, right?
00:57:49.599 --> 00:58:00.000
I mean, maybe Bob Guerin was the closest because while he managed in triple A, he was he just didn't seem prepared uh in Oakland to manage that team.
00:58:00.239 --> 00:58:06.639
But shoot, I got here with Roger Craig and Tony LaRussa, and then it became Dusty Baker and Art Howe and Ken Maka.
00:58:06.880 --> 00:58:14.239
These are all established uh big leaguers who either played the game or worked them themselves up through the minors for many years.
00:58:14.480 --> 00:58:21.199
And then um, you know, Felipe Alu and Bruce Boci, and then Bob Melvin across the Bay, and then Melvin came here.
00:58:21.280 --> 00:58:28.480
So we saw a lot of baseball people, and we're used to in the Bay Area of not going so analytic heavy.
00:58:28.559 --> 00:58:40.639
Obviously, they did in Oakland, but um, you know, the the front office kind of drove those teams with with Billy Bean and David Forst, etc., um, on on how the game planning went.
00:58:40.880 --> 00:58:51.039
And you see that across the landscape in the big leagues, but you just didn't see it so much with the Giants until Farhan showed up and hired Gabe, and then everything changed.
00:58:51.119 --> 00:58:55.599
And fans didn't really dig it except for 2021 when everything went right.
00:58:55.679 --> 00:59:00.559
Uh, you look on the back of the baseball card for every one of those guys, it was like a career year.
00:59:00.800 --> 00:59:05.599
I mean, even Crawford, Belt, and and Posey had really good years.
00:59:05.760 --> 00:59:07.840
Longoria had a pretty good year.
00:59:08.079 --> 00:59:21.599
Um, so across the board, they were very good, and you know, all the marginal players had their career years, but then uh I think they believed in themselves too much because they tried to run it back in 22, and it it hasn't been the same since.
00:59:21.840 --> 00:59:31.360
So that's that's a long-winded uh answer to suggest that um I think Tony Vitello will be much better next year because of this experience.
00:59:31.599 --> 00:59:49.360
This team can't possibly be as bad, and he could only be better based on what he's learned from Washington Wotis, um, Gary Pettis, and um the mistakes he probably made with young uh coaches that maybe he'll have heavier hammer with next year.
00:59:49.679 --> 00:59:58.719
Yes, you mentioned the coaching staff, and one last point on Vitello is you know, Posey was asked on Tuesday, you know, why do you still think Vitello is the guy?
00:59:58.800 --> 01:00:03.039
And he said, I still believe in his ability to lead the three of us, what we're doing here together.
01:00:03.280 --> 01:00:06.000
And so I I always fall into the bucket.
01:00:06.079 --> 01:00:08.800
Uh, it's the the line by the rapper Common.
01:00:09.199 --> 01:00:14.320
Why they say never say never when they know that ain't right, because to say never say never, you done said never twice.
01:00:14.400 --> 01:00:16.000
So never say never, Shay.
01:00:16.400 --> 01:00:20.000
Like there's there's no there there's only one guarantee in life, and that's there's no guarantees.
01:00:20.320 --> 01:00:24.880
But as of right now, Tony Vitello will be the manager in 2027.
01:00:25.119 --> 01:00:39.519
But the coaching staff, I don't i it it's interesting because I don't think you know, Posey said we're not gonna make uh uh sweeping changes, but something's gotta change after a season like that.
01:00:40.159 --> 01:00:57.360
And the one kind of area of that team that you really highlight after a season like that is the pitching department because it it you know the bullpen is one thing and uh that's a personnel thing, and Buster even kind of shouldered the blame on Tuesday.
01:00:57.440 --> 01:01:02.320
He kind of ov he said he overestimated some of the guys that they had in the bullpen.
01:01:03.119 --> 01:01:15.440
But that being said, like even without having a ninth inning guy, you know, you kind of looked at some of these starters and it felt like even some of the relievers, it felt like there was some meat left on the bone for some of them.
01:01:15.599 --> 01:01:40.079
And yeah, like I it's weird, the bullpen's probably in a better shape than the rotation, just because it there's a you have some fine pieces, but you look at Roop and how it, you know, he had that one stretch where he went like 10 games without getting a win, and he said he has been trying to find stuff, and even the season that Webb had, it just feels like there wasn't a lot of steps taken with a lot of the starters.
01:01:41.280 --> 01:01:50.320
And so you do kind of wonder, like you naturally, that line of leads you to the pitching department, and how much of that pitching department is going to change going forward in 2027.
01:01:50.400 --> 01:01:59.119
So I think if if we're looking at I don't think we'll see wholesale changes, but I do think that you know going forward next year, I think some members of that pitching department might be a little different next year.
01:01:59.440 --> 01:02:02.960
Yeah, I think I think you'll probably see a new main pitching coach.
01:02:03.039 --> 01:02:16.639
I mean, message was a real nice guy, but I didn't at all hear any pitcher in our post-game interviews suggest that, yeah, he taught me this, told me this, uh inspired me to do this.
01:02:16.719 --> 01:02:34.239
Um, and you know, with whether it's a uh new pitch or a new grip or a new mentality against a certain where we we used to hear that with JP Martinez, you know, there was a lot of praise to him, and certainly with Dave Ruggedti back in the day.
01:02:34.480 --> 01:02:48.559
Um so uh it it seems, especially with the Tommy John, they got to reassess the way they they coach, the way they train, the way they weightlift, and especially with the young starters.
01:02:48.880 --> 01:02:52.639
And so I think they probably would have to bring in a whole new mentality.
01:02:52.719 --> 01:03:03.119
And you know, unfortunately for some of these pitching coaches, that might be hey, you're gonna either be reassigned within the organization or maybe look for another job next year.
01:03:03.199 --> 01:03:06.800
And that's just the way of the world uh with managers and coaches.
01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:12.639
If things don't go right, they don't fire the players, they fire the coaching staff or the manager.
01:03:13.039 --> 01:03:20.320
But uh Buster Posey, when when we asked about changes, whether it's wholesale changes in the coaching staff, he said a couple.
01:03:20.400 --> 01:03:21.760
So a couple of changes.
01:03:21.840 --> 01:03:24.800
And I I really hope they keep Ron Washington.
01:03:25.119 --> 01:03:30.239
Um, Zach Menajian kind of hinted that they would, and Walsh told me he does want to stay.
01:03:30.320 --> 01:03:32.000
I'm sure he told you the same.
01:03:32.239 --> 01:03:35.840
Um, and Wotis is such a team guy going back.
01:03:36.079 --> 01:03:46.559
No, no coach has ever had that longevity in Giants history, let alone um any team's history, with how many, what, six different managers he's coached under.
01:03:46.800 --> 01:03:52.719
Uh, he should have had a coaching uh managing opportunity along the way with the Giants or somebody else.
01:03:52.880 --> 01:03:58.559
Um, and Gary Pettis, what a difference that guy was versus Hector Borg.
01:03:58.719 --> 01:04:05.760
And he just brought brought experience, know-how, intelligence, um, everything to that third base coaching box.
01:04:05.840 --> 01:04:12.400
And maybe one time he sent a guy to his death that maybe he shouldn't have, but otherwise, he was just splendid, he was perfect.
01:04:12.639 --> 01:04:17.519
And um we we we just we just never knew with the previous guy, and that was unfortunate.
01:04:17.679 --> 01:04:22.800
So that was good uh that they replaced him, but it was also bad they hired him.
01:04:22.960 --> 01:04:24.719
It was like it's probably too much.
01:04:24.960 --> 01:04:30.400
They should have gotten an accomplished guy to begin with, not a guy who was just learning the ropes on the job.
01:04:30.480 --> 01:04:33.519
And uh Tony Vitello didn't really even know him.
01:04:33.599 --> 01:04:39.280
He was kind of a newcomer to the staff uh because they maybe couldn't find anybody else to coach third base.
01:04:39.440 --> 01:04:54.880
So um I I I think hopefully Ron Washington might be more involved with the with the decision making, uh, more involved with being in the meetings, Wotis as well, and certainly Gary Pettis, because you got to rely on experience.
01:04:55.119 --> 01:05:02.320
You can't just rely on the computer, you can't rely on guys who haven't stepped in the box or um pitched off the rubber.
01:05:02.880 --> 01:05:04.320
You just need that experience.
01:05:04.400 --> 01:05:11.440
If you look at Bochi staffs and uh Baker staffs and Aluz staffs, they were just full of accomplished big league players.
01:05:11.599 --> 01:05:24.639
And obviously, we've had a tilt where um the analytics era has brought in people who might not have the experience on the field, but you know, they have a different mindset that they bring to players, and it works, and sometimes it doesn't work.
01:05:24.880 --> 01:05:40.400
But um yeah, so he's he's they're not gonna get rid of Tony Vitello with two years and seven million dollars left on his contract, and a vesting option, and a vesting option, and you can't you can't keep bringing in new managers and new GMs every single year.
01:05:40.480 --> 01:05:46.239
And I think four straight years they've changed either the GM president of baseball ops or the manager.
01:05:46.400 --> 01:05:50.079
So at least next year you might have some continuity, though.
01:05:50.480 --> 01:05:54.480
Um, at least in the front office, top decision makers and the manager.
01:05:54.800 --> 01:05:55.760
A little stability.
01:05:55.840 --> 01:05:59.760
I also I I would be shocked also if Alex Berg isn't back on the next.
01:06:00.239 --> 01:06:00.960
Year staff.
01:06:01.119 --> 01:06:08.239
And you know, you mentioned the point of you know, Justin Message may not be getting a lot of guys shouting him out when we talk to them.
01:06:08.480 --> 01:06:16.960
I remember during Daniel Susak's, and you were there for it, I think, Daniel Susak's end-of-season kind of interview when his knee was done.
01:06:17.119 --> 01:06:20.079
I think he referred to Berg as like the best coach he's ever had.
01:06:20.239 --> 01:06:20.719
Yes.
01:06:20.960 --> 01:06:26.000
And, you know, I'm correlation, causation, like we'll never know.
01:06:26.320 --> 01:06:30.320
But Daniel Susak had better defensive numbers than Patrick Bailey.
01:06:30.880 --> 01:06:34.079
And Patrick Bailey was no longer working with Berg after that trade happened.
01:06:34.159 --> 01:06:38.559
And I don't want to give, you know, all the credit in the world to Berg because that's also Susak's work as well.
01:06:38.639 --> 01:06:42.400
But you know, a lot of guys have I think Drew Kavanaugh as well really praised him.
01:06:42.559 --> 01:06:47.039
I think he does a really good job with the catching, and you know, just the the work kind of speaks for itself there.
01:06:47.280 --> 01:06:53.199
And then, you know, on the hitting side as well, you know, I remember talking to Jonah Cox and he was like, Yeah, Hunter Mentz suggested I do this.
01:06:53.440 --> 01:06:53.760
Yeah.
01:06:54.159 --> 01:06:59.440
And you know, Oscar Bernard has a really good relationship with Rafael Devers, who just had a phenomenal season.
01:06:59.760 --> 01:07:03.840
So those those are three guys I would, you know, expect back uh as well.
01:07:04.079 --> 01:07:12.800
But I do think that you know, kind of circling back to the pitching side, I do kind of wonder how much change there will be there.
01:07:12.880 --> 01:07:20.400
And I do think like with Frank Anderson specifically, I think because of the relationship with Vitello, I don't think he'd be one to go either.
01:07:20.880 --> 01:07:28.159
I think just having him, you know, in the clubhouse is a really kind of affirming for Vitello, but we'll kind of see there.
01:07:28.239 --> 01:07:32.320
But I want to circle back to a guy that you mentioned earlier.
01:07:32.480 --> 01:07:34.800
It feels like for forever ago, and that's Willie Adamus.
01:07:35.280 --> 01:07:38.079
Um, they're gonna keep him at short for right now.
01:07:39.599 --> 01:07:43.119
Shea, how many more years do you think he has as the starting shortstop of this team?
01:07:43.599 --> 01:07:45.599
Not a starter, just starting shortstop.
01:07:45.920 --> 01:07:51.199
But Surpose, uh I see Willie Adamus' future as a shortstop.
01:07:52.159 --> 01:07:56.239
You know, the question was for how long, you know, short-term, long term.
01:07:56.719 --> 01:08:05.440
He didn't say for how long, but he knows he's got a flood of shortstops coming up, none of whom will be able to take over that position next year, maybe in 28.
01:08:06.000 --> 01:08:15.920
But we can't, we can't see he knows from his championship days, and he said it over and over, that you can't win at this ballpark without pitching your defense.
01:08:16.159 --> 01:08:29.199
Well, they didn't have much pitching this year, and their defense up the middle, I mean, at second base with a rise thanks to Ron Washington and all Luisa Rise's work, he turned into a gold glove type second baseman.
01:08:29.279 --> 01:08:33.199
The Padres didn't want him anywhere near second base at the end.
01:08:33.359 --> 01:08:42.479
Um then he went to Philly and he was so good defensively that Philly manipulated its whole defense around him and put Harper out in the outfield.
01:08:42.640 --> 01:08:44.960
And uh, you know, Alex Bone.
01:08:45.119 --> 01:08:46.640
It just changed everything.
01:08:46.960 --> 01:08:49.279
Well, Harper had a kind of he was that good.
01:08:49.600 --> 01:08:52.399
He didn't have a good game yesterday, at least at least in that in the field.
01:08:52.479 --> 01:08:53.439
He almost cost him.
01:08:53.760 --> 01:08:58.079
Well, then he made up for it with the with the big home run, and they won an extras.
01:08:58.239 --> 01:09:04.000
So uh not gonna take Harper out of the lineup because he missed a ball.
01:09:04.239 --> 01:09:08.560
Um yeah, so anyway, where are we going with this?
01:09:10.000 --> 01:09:11.439
Just where do you think about Adamus?
01:09:11.840 --> 01:09:12.399
With Adamus.
01:09:12.720 --> 01:09:20.960
Especially, you know, the back was it was a big issue this year, this past year, and that that obviously plays into the defensive metrics and posey's.
01:09:22.800 --> 01:09:25.199
That is it's the benefit of the doubt is being given there.
01:09:25.439 --> 01:09:28.640
Yeah, so it's it's okay, roll the dice one more time.
01:09:28.800 --> 01:09:38.399
Same with Chapman, who admitted to us late in the season that he had this core issue dating back to April or May.
01:09:38.640 --> 01:09:44.880
And oh, Rafi Devers had this core issue as well, but he was crushing the ball regardless.
01:09:45.199 --> 01:09:59.199
And maybe we see him DH more next year because I think I'd rather throw to a 6'7 guy um rather than Rafi, uh, because that 6'7 guy is a hell of a defensive first baseman right now, Bryce Eldridge.
01:09:59.439 --> 01:10:04.239
So I I would say they gotta seriously talk about moving him.
01:10:05.520 --> 01:10:06.479
But where to?
01:10:06.800 --> 01:10:18.960
If Chapman's still here for four years and Johnny Level's coming up, maybe the second baseman of the future, they already have Marcelo Maher, who might be the second baseman next year if he can stay healthy, the kid from Boston.
01:10:19.279 --> 01:10:26.560
But it's like, man, you can't DH because you already have those two guys at first base sharing the DH duties.
01:10:26.720 --> 01:10:34.239
And while Adam is, I think, shoot, his his future might be as a DH somewhere.
01:10:34.319 --> 01:10:42.880
You know, if they can move him, eat some of the contract, you bring in uh one of these young shortstops, Gavin Keelan is furthest along.
01:10:43.039 --> 01:10:45.119
Maybe he's a second baseman in the future.
01:10:45.279 --> 01:10:51.119
And we we're not gonna see all these great prospect shortstops at the big league level together.
01:10:51.359 --> 01:10:55.600
Well, they can move to other positions like Buster Posey noted Tuesday.
01:10:55.840 --> 01:10:58.880
Some of them will be traded because they need pitching.
01:10:59.039 --> 01:11:00.560
So what's your strength?
01:11:00.720 --> 01:11:02.079
Well, young shortstops.
01:11:02.239 --> 01:11:04.000
Okay, you got to move some of them.
01:11:04.159 --> 01:11:11.039
They hope not to move the wrong one, and the guy comes back as Arod or Ripkin or Derek Jeter.
01:11:11.600 --> 01:11:16.399
Uh but uh uh they got to get the the right call on that.
01:11:16.560 --> 01:11:19.920
So it I I mean, and then do you move him to second base?
01:11:20.000 --> 01:11:21.600
Is he gonna be better defensively?
01:11:21.760 --> 01:11:26.880
I mean, how many of his errors were throwing errors versus fielding errors, and what will his range be?
01:11:27.119 --> 01:11:31.600
Um, but the fact is, you know, if healthy, he could hit 30 bombs.
01:11:31.840 --> 01:11:39.199
So do you sacrifice defense or do you move him and just hope he gets better defensively?
01:11:39.279 --> 01:11:41.840
And uh yeah, okay, yeah, benefit of the doubt.
01:11:42.000 --> 01:11:56.319
Um you we saw him strap on some kind of back support uh in the dugout between innings, and then that doesn't bode well for a major league shortstop, that he's got a bad back because bad backs tend to linger.
01:11:56.880 --> 01:12:04.399
And if he's got that bad back next year, man, they got to talk right away about doing something other than letting him play shortstop every day.
01:12:06.000 --> 01:12:08.000
The place where we'll I'll end Shay.
01:12:08.399 --> 01:12:11.520
Because I was debating if we were gonna talk about some of the good in this year.
01:12:11.600 --> 01:12:13.119
I was like, nah, not after a season like this.
01:12:13.199 --> 01:12:15.439
There was a couple good things, nah, we don't have to.
01:12:15.840 --> 01:12:17.439
This is this is not the type of positivity.
01:12:17.520 --> 01:12:21.119
The Kruko section was our positivity section, but I want to stay up the middle.
01:12:22.319 --> 01:12:26.319
You got second base, you got shortstop, those are your infield up the middle positions.
01:12:27.199 --> 01:12:29.039
In the outfield, you got center field.
01:12:29.680 --> 01:12:38.640
And there is a certain center fielder with an injured left foot who is still under contract for 2027.
01:12:38.880 --> 01:12:41.680
I don't know if he's getting paid yet, but that's Harrison Bader.
01:12:42.800 --> 01:12:45.680
John, do we see Harrison Bader in the Giants uniform next year?
01:12:46.000 --> 01:12:46.319
No.
01:12:46.960 --> 01:12:49.439
I think if they have to buy him out, they'll they'll buy him out.
01:12:49.520 --> 01:12:53.680
I I don't think um they they want him around.
01:12:53.840 --> 01:12:57.119
Um bad example for young guys.
01:12:57.359 --> 01:12:59.600
Uh don't do what I do, right?
01:12:59.760 --> 01:13:05.439
Don't follow me uh along the marina and and ram my scooter into a fire truck at two in the morning.
01:13:05.520 --> 01:13:06.239
Don't do that.
01:13:06.479 --> 01:13:21.439
Well, it if I put it this way the maturation process of Drew Gilbert was um kind of accelerated with without the presence of Harrison Bader.
01:13:21.600 --> 01:13:23.359
Whether they're tied together, I don't know.
01:13:23.439 --> 01:13:32.239
But we saw kind of an immature Drew Gilbert last year, toward the end, kind of a college kid who thought that he was going to bring all this energy and turn the franchise around.
01:13:32.479 --> 01:13:38.319
To um even early season, you're talking about the celebration with the three outfielders.
01:13:38.399 --> 01:13:40.000
That that was kind of weak.
01:13:40.159 --> 01:13:51.920
Um, you know, it's kind of funny on the internet for a day or two, but uh, you know, the criticism around professional major league baseball players was not was it was not positive.
01:13:52.239 --> 01:14:00.640
So I think he learned or at least was talked to and because he he hung around Bader quite a bit last year in in spring training.
01:14:00.880 --> 01:14:02.319
And we'll see.
01:14:02.560 --> 01:14:17.760
But I think uh if they if they don't use the CBA, the collective bargaining agreement to equate a scooter with a motorcycle, because in the CBA it says you cannot ride motorcycles, and if you get hurt, your contract could be void.
01:14:17.920 --> 01:14:19.600
Just that's asked Jeff Kent.
01:14:19.680 --> 01:14:23.279
Kent was too good to void his contract, they needed Jeff Kent.
01:14:23.680 --> 01:14:27.279
So um, you know, with the with the wrist in the motorcycle.
01:14:27.359 --> 01:14:29.119
Oh, wait, no, I forgot I'm wrong on that.
01:14:29.199 --> 01:14:31.119
He was washing his truck, he's washing his truck, Shay.
01:14:31.199 --> 01:14:32.399
I don't know what you're talking about.
01:14:32.640 --> 01:14:38.800
So so anyway, uh, we've seen a different Drew Gilbert, and I I see him platooning in center field.
01:14:38.880 --> 01:14:53.279
You probably feel the same way with Jonah Cox next season because Jonah runs like nobody they've had in years, and he can steal a bag, and suddenly the Giants weren't last in steals anymore, you know, largely because of him and some others.
01:14:53.439 --> 01:15:06.239
So they had the green light, and that it was a more exciting brand of baseball with the younger guys while all the older guys were either on the injured list or uh being investigated because of a late night uh incident.
01:15:06.399 --> 01:15:10.800
So I I don't think you don't you don't see him next year in San Francisco, do you?
01:15:11.600 --> 01:15:12.239
I don't.
01:15:12.479 --> 01:15:18.880
Whether it's and you kind of hit the nail on the head there, whether it's a a buyout, a trade, a DFA altogether, whatever it is.
01:15:18.960 --> 01:15:29.119
It's just with the season being where it is, and like the context of how it happened too, like he was supposed to get on a flight to Indianapolis the next morning.
01:15:29.279 --> 01:15:37.039
And even if he didn't crash a scooter, it's he would have still been running on like what four hours of sleep before making a cross-country flight.
01:15:37.119 --> 01:15:40.880
And like, yeah, he does he's not playing, but still, like that's that's not ideal.
01:15:41.039 --> 01:15:46.960
So I think all the circumstances and and how it happened, um, we never heard from him either.
01:15:47.119 --> 01:15:48.479
Like, there was no apology.
01:15:48.640 --> 01:15:50.079
Like, did I miss like that?
01:15:50.239 --> 01:15:51.039
I didn't miss that, right?
01:15:51.119 --> 01:15:52.319
Like, there was no apology.
01:15:52.640 --> 01:15:55.119
We haven't we haven't seen him since he got injured.
01:15:55.600 --> 01:15:58.720
So there were there was no facing of the music either.
01:15:59.600 --> 01:16:01.279
No, no public apology.
01:16:01.439 --> 01:16:16.000
So I just think given that, given that Gilbert and Cox has the making of a fine platoon in center field, um, you can kind of figure out left field from there, whether you want to go Meyer at second Schmidt and left or Schmidt and second Bo Davidson and left, whatever you want to do there.
01:16:16.319 --> 01:16:18.000
They got a lot of outfielders.
01:16:18.960 --> 01:16:21.039
I I just don't envision, you know.
01:16:22.479 --> 01:16:27.920
Given given what we do know about Posey, I I don't think we see him again in a Giants uniform.
01:16:28.239 --> 01:16:29.439
But he has to say all the right things.
01:16:29.600 --> 01:16:31.600
He has to say there's nothing which we could say.
01:16:31.680 --> 01:16:34.880
Like he like Posey was never gonna outright say like this bozo's done.
01:16:34.960 --> 01:16:35.760
Like he couldn't say that.
01:16:35.920 --> 01:16:36.079
Okay.
01:16:37.039 --> 01:16:40.560
There still is an investigation uh ongoing with Harrison Bader.
01:16:40.640 --> 01:16:49.520
Shea, before we get out of here, any final thoughts on the press conference, the 2026 season, or anything else you would like to share?
01:16:49.840 --> 01:16:54.239
The Giants team and the Giants Clubhouse belongs to Bryce Eldridge next year.
01:16:54.560 --> 01:17:01.520
Matt Chapman, Williad Damas, okay, they're leaders, maybe in their day, but their time has come.
01:17:01.920 --> 01:17:03.680
Uh people love Chapman.
01:17:03.760 --> 01:17:05.680
Logan Webb loves Chapman.
01:17:06.079 --> 01:17:08.640
And Rafi doesn't want any party leadership.
01:17:09.119 --> 01:17:14.960
At least he'll say so, though he provided some to some of these younger guys in the final weeks before he went out.
01:17:15.119 --> 01:17:26.720
But you got to give this clubhouse to the young guys because if you want to turn this roster over, if you want to improve by 2028, 2029, Bryce Eldridge is so good, so eloquent.
01:17:27.119 --> 01:17:29.039
He'll talk to you about anything.
01:17:29.199 --> 01:17:32.159
He's he's an assistant player rep, for goodness sake.
01:17:32.319 --> 01:17:36.720
No 21-year-old wants that gig, especially going into a labor strife.
01:17:36.960 --> 01:17:39.359
So he wants to be the guy.
01:17:39.600 --> 01:17:43.359
Like Will Clark back in the 80s, wanted to be the guy.
01:17:43.520 --> 01:17:54.399
And Bryce Eldridge, more than any giant I've seen since Will Clark at that age, has the maturity and the talent to pull it off and to be the guy.
01:17:54.560 --> 01:17:56.560
So let's just forget everything else.
01:17:56.720 --> 01:18:02.720
Let's give this clubhouse to Bryce Eldridge and usher in the new era with that guy running the show.
01:18:03.039 --> 01:18:04.479
Will Clark was the guy.
01:18:04.640 --> 01:18:06.079
Bryce Eldridge wants to be the guy.
01:18:06.159 --> 01:18:10.319
And John Shea, you've been the guy in San Francisco for quite some time.
01:18:10.479 --> 01:18:12.239
John Shea, where can we find your work?
01:18:12.800 --> 01:18:17.520
Uh sfstandard.com and social media.
01:18:17.600 --> 01:18:23.680
I don't have the podcast like you do, although Carrie Crowley has podcast section 415.
01:18:24.079 --> 01:18:29.119
The great Carrie Crowley, who kind of stepped away from his weekend gig at KNBR.
01:18:29.359 --> 01:18:32.239
Um, former San Jose Mercury beat writer.
01:18:32.399 --> 01:18:35.840
You've followed in his footsteps uh very nicely.
01:18:36.079 --> 01:18:38.319
And um, hey, he's my boss.
01:18:38.399 --> 01:18:39.520
I love the guy.
01:18:39.760 --> 01:18:43.760
And he's he's great, he's a multimedia superstar.
01:18:44.000 --> 01:18:48.159
And Bill Lasky had a little farewell tribute to him last weekend.
01:18:48.319 --> 01:18:55.840
I don't think Kerry wanted any part of that, but uh, you know, you'll see still hear him filling in weekdays at CanBR.
01:18:55.920 --> 01:19:06.239
So he's not retired from the airwaves by any means, but he just you know recently married and wants to hang out, be a family guy, and good for him.
01:19:06.479 --> 01:19:08.399
So yeah, man.
01:19:08.640 --> 01:19:11.359
Um good year hanging out.
01:19:11.520 --> 01:19:17.760
We we laughed a lot at uh what we saw and we shook our head a lot over what we saw.
01:19:18.079 --> 01:19:21.359
But uh like I said, man, they ain't gonna lose 97.
01:19:21.439 --> 01:19:23.279
There's no way they could be worse.
01:19:23.520 --> 01:19:27.920
I mean, they had to lose, they had to lose five in a row to get to 97.
01:19:28.079 --> 01:19:33.439
You mentioned what is it, the third or fourth worst winning percentage or most losses in Samurai.
01:19:33.600 --> 01:19:41.199
I think it's the fifth most losses in the entirety of the franchise, going back 144 years to the 1880s.
01:19:41.359 --> 01:19:45.039
Granted, they played fewer games, but still 97 losses, man.
01:19:45.119 --> 01:19:47.439
Come on, you got to get better than that.
01:19:48.479 --> 01:19:52.800
Well, again, Shay, I'm gonna defer to the artist formerly known as Common.
01:19:53.039 --> 01:19:58.640
Why they say never say never when they know that ain't right, because to say never say never, you done said never twice.
01:19:58.720 --> 01:19:59.920
And I got a hat over there.
01:20:00.000 --> 01:20:01.680
It's my Kansas City Monarchs hat.
01:20:01.760 --> 01:20:08.800
Whenever I wear it, if I ever see Carrie, I say they think this stands for the Kansas City Monarchs, but really stands for Carrie Crowley.
01:20:09.039 --> 01:20:09.920
KC, baby.
01:20:10.079 --> 01:20:11.039
KC baby.
01:20:11.199 --> 01:20:14.319
John Shea, Jessus De Los Santos, Splash Consideration Podcast.
01:20:14.399 --> 01:20:17.520
We really appreciate y'all for tuning in throughout the duration of the season.
01:20:17.680 --> 01:20:20.079
We will have more for y'all over the course of the offseason.
01:20:20.159 --> 01:20:23.680
But until then, we will catch y'all in the next one.