When Suffering Returns: Sara Willoughby on Trusting God Without Answers | STF Podcast Ep. 33

WEBVTT
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.360
I know who He is.
00:00:01.729 --> 00:00:08.859
He is loving, He is all-powerful, and therefore because He's both of those things, He's trustworthy.
00:00:09.089 --> 00:00:11.759
Either He's trustworthy or He's not.
00:00:11.798 --> 00:00:13.388
And so I have to trust.
00:00:13.388 --> 00:00:18.821
Looking back on my life and looking at His Word, I have to believe that He is those things.
00:00:19.161 --> 00:00:23.010
Right now, I have to believe that He sees more than I do.
00:00:23.260 --> 00:00:25.431
I have to believe that He knows more than I do.
00:00:26.190 --> 00:00:28.050
Welcome back to Singing Through Fire.
00:00:28.071 --> 00:00:39.051
I'm your host, Laura silverman, and today we're continuing our Faith in the Furnace series where we interview Christian warriors with powerful testimonies of God's sustaining grace in modern-day lions' dens.
00:00:39.490 --> 00:00:42.850
I'm so excited to introduce you today to Sarah Willoughby.
00:00:43.170 --> 00:00:55.021
Sarah is the author of He's Making Diamonds and the founder of the National Diamonds Conference, an online event for Christians all over the US with chronic illnesses.
00:00:55.320 --> 00:00:59.191
She lives in California with her husband and loves dark chocolate and adventures.
00:00:59.500 --> 00:01:02.290
So without further ado, let's sing through the fire.
00:01:04.707 --> 00:01:15.757
This is Singing Through Fire, where we worship when it hurts, discuss hot takes from the furnace of affliction, and explore a biblical theology of suffering with a side of sass and sarcasm.
00:01:15.768 --> 00:01:27.787
From lamentations to laughter, this podcast is for anyone desperate for hope who's ever asked,"Why, Lord, why?" I've lost my health, career, and husband, so we're in this fight for faith together.
00:01:28.281 --> 00:01:30.180
Welcome to the show, Sarah.
00:01:30.191 --> 00:01:31.710
It's so good to have you on.
00:01:32.331 --> 00:01:33.971
It's so good to be here.
00:01:34.001 --> 00:01:39.831
I've gotten to hear snippets- Yeah of some of the other episodes, and it sounds like it's been really powerful.
00:01:40.790 --> 00:01:42.430
You know, I've been dying to meet you.
00:01:42.430 --> 00:01:46.001
Okay, so for the audience like, Sarah is literally a celebrity.
00:01:46.001 --> 00:01:46.661
Like, I don't...
00:01:46.820 --> 00:01:53.891
Everywhere I turned, like, in the chronic illness community, like I, I was kind of new to this,'cause, I mean, it's only been eight years, even though it feels like a lifetime.
00:01:54.400 --> 00:01:59.700
But, like, everywhere I started looking at resources, people were like,"Sarah Willoughby, you've got to, you know, read her book.
00:01:59.700 --> 00:02:03.391
You've got to interview her." So I mean, I'm not saying this just to boost your ego.
00:02:03.391 --> 00:02:09.871
I'm saying Sarah literally started this national conference, and I've watched, you know, many of their resources.
00:02:09.871 --> 00:02:18.290
They provide so much help, you know, biblically as well as just, you know, for anyone struggling with, with a chronic illness.
00:02:18.290 --> 00:02:26.631
So her work i- is, is definitely a ministry, a calling from the Lord, and today we're gonna get to hear about her story and how the Lord sustained her through it.
00:02:26.651 --> 00:02:31.920
So Sarah, can you start by t- giving us your, you know, an overview of your suffering?
00:02:31.920 --> 00:02:37.221
Like, take us to the beginning and your path through it so we have an overview of what you've been through.
00:02:38.441 --> 00:02:39.131
Yeah.
00:02:39.211 --> 00:02:41.341
Oh, well, thank you for those kind words.
00:02:42.471 --> 00:02:47.371
Yeah, I got, I, uh, got sick first when I was 14.
00:02:47.741 --> 00:02:48.450
I...
00:02:48.531 --> 00:02:49.800
Prior to that, I loved...
00:02:49.950 --> 00:02:54.841
I was just your outdoor, adventurous, nerdy, nerdy girl.
00:02:55.471 --> 00:03:00.431
I loved hiking and hanging out with, you know, my siblings and things like that.
00:03:00.461 --> 00:03:04.191
But when I was 14, I got- Yeah sick and I never got better.
00:03:04.600 --> 00:03:09.570
And so I, like, over time, developed all these different symptoms.
00:03:09.931 --> 00:03:24.080
Um, it started with just, like, you know, some gut issues and some joint pain, and then, like, progressed especially over that first year, like, with vision problems and brain fog and, like, you know- Oh physical strength.
00:03:24.080 --> 00:03:30.241
The ability to, like, s- function got lower and lower, Yeah as I was entering high school.
00:03:30.640 --> 00:03:36.300
Uh, and I was undiagnosed for that first year, and then, a- and misdiagnosed.
00:03:37.121 --> 00:03:39.270
And then as I...
00:03:39.371 --> 00:03:43.971
Eventually, I was diagnosed with mold poisoning and Lyme disease.
00:03:44.341 --> 00:03:46.377
And so- Yeah.
00:03:47.586 --> 00:03:54.347
I, my family, we packed up our stuff'cause the, the mold was actually growing in the walls of our home, and we didn't know it.
00:03:54.366 --> 00:04:03.197
So- Oh we packed up a, a little bit of our stuff, but actually most of our belongings just had to be gotten rid of because of the mycotoxins permeating it all.
00:04:03.717 --> 00:04:15.176
And so we, we got, we got some fresh clothes from Walmart, packed up, and went to Montana and then to Arizona, trying to find a safe, like, place for my body to recover.
00:04:15.447 --> 00:04:19.237
And that was my- Hmm at the time, my parents and my, my two younger siblings.
00:04:19.656 --> 00:04:22.747
Our lives just, like- Right changed within a couple of weeks.
00:04:23.197 --> 00:04:23.966
Wow.
00:04:24.247 --> 00:04:25.016
Yeah.
00:04:25.286 --> 00:04:29.476
And then, in Arizona I started to do a little bit better.
00:04:29.487 --> 00:04:38.387
I was starting to, like, be able to function a little bit until one day I just collapsed, and my mom found me on the bathroom floor.
00:04:38.406 --> 00:04:39.346
I was 16, 15.
00:04:39.346 --> 00:04:41.937
I was 15 at this time.
00:04:42.476 --> 00:04:46.377
And I couldn't, like, walk or really talk very well.
00:04:46.697 --> 00:04:50.476
I couldn't, like, feed myself, get to the bathroom by myself.
00:04:50.826 --> 00:05:16.656
I needed my, my mom was just full-time caregiving, trying to keep all of us going, um, and keep me alive because we, in that moment, were like,"Ah, what do we do?" So we tried a, like, last ditch,"Okay, here's another, another doctor." And she's actually number 17 because I had been kind of just passed along from, like, doctor to doctor of like,"I don't know what's wrong with you.
00:05:16.706 --> 00:05:22.137
Try this person." And I mean, that's- Right a common experience in the chronic illness community.
00:05:22.137 --> 00:05:22.346
Y- yep.
00:05:23.427 --> 00:05:23.786
Um-
00:05:23.797 --> 00:05:24.166
Yep
00:05:24.416 --> 00:05:24.836
yeah.
00:05:24.887 --> 00:05:26.956
But this doctor was actually able to help.
00:05:27.336 --> 00:05:37.836
And she told my parents- Wow if I hadn't come in at that time, I would've, for that particular treatment she was able to do, I would have died within a month, which is not something- Wow.
00:05:37.877 --> 00:05:38.276
And what-
00:05:38.846 --> 00:05:39.226
Go ahead.
00:05:39.947 --> 00:05:41.387
W- what disease was that?
00:05:41.387 --> 00:05:43.526
Was that from the Lyme or the mold?
00:05:43.887 --> 00:05:44.146
Yeah.
00:05:44.146 --> 00:05:46.596
So for me, the Lyme and the mold were connected.
00:05:46.656 --> 00:05:48.797
But the mold was the biggest factor for me.
00:05:48.797 --> 00:05:57.187
So because the mold- Oh wrecked my system, I was susceptible to other things like Lyme disease- Yeah and some other stuff, so yeah.
00:05:57.216 --> 00:05:59.706
So there was life-threatening things going on, like-
00:06:00.497 --> 00:06:00.836
Yeah.
00:06:00.836 --> 00:06:00.887
At that point-
00:06:00.887 --> 00:06:02.286
What was the life-threatening thing?
00:06:02.286 --> 00:06:03.166
I was just curious.
00:06:03.226 --> 00:06:03.966
Yeah.
00:06:04.016 --> 00:06:09.927
At that point'cause of the mold, like, it's a, it's a toxin, and so it affects all of- Oh your body.
00:06:10.226 --> 00:06:11.057
And so my-
00:06:11.146 --> 00:06:11.447
Yeah
00:06:11.456 --> 00:06:12.887
my organs were shutting down.
00:06:13.536 --> 00:06:23.026
I, I remember, like, just kind of was curled up in the fetal position and, like, wa- just, like, literally watching my muscle, like, like, on my arm, like um...
00:06:23.237 --> 00:06:24.026
What's the word?
00:06:25.130 --> 00:06:25.771
Twitching
00:06:25.781 --> 00:06:28.000
or- Twitching, yeah, because it was like- Yeah acting.
00:06:28.040 --> 00:06:29.480
I was like watching it act up.
00:06:30.271 --> 00:06:41.151
Um, but specifically my liver in particular was, was failing because your, your liver helps you process that stuff out, and I j- it just couldn't keep up with the amount that I had been exposed to.
00:06:41.860 --> 00:06:42.221
So-
00:06:42.290 --> 00:06:42.690
Mm.
00:06:43.290 --> 00:06:43.810
Yeah.
00:06:44.170 --> 00:06:44.180
A-
00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:49.230
and so, and, and so but then it got resolved because she saved your life, right?
00:06:49.230 --> 00:06:52.391
So she saves your life, and then what happens then?
00:06:53.418 --> 00:06:54.048
Yeah.
00:06:54.048 --> 00:06:59.108
I always, people ask, like, about healing and what I think about healing or whatever.
00:06:59.499 --> 00:07:06.298
Um, and I'm like, I got, I got the healing I was praying for, and it was miraculous, but it wasn't overnight.
00:07:06.309 --> 00:07:20.658
It wasn't the, like, someone, you know, prayed and I got healed- Yeah it was like God connected me with this right person at the right time, and then it was years from then of, like, re- of intensive, like, recovery and going in multiple times a week to get treatment.
00:07:21.009 --> 00:07:22.689
And so it wasn't until I was 18.
00:07:22.728 --> 00:07:27.338
So that was, like, from the time I first got sick to when I was starting to function normally was about four years.
00:07:27.959 --> 00:07:28.658
And then, um-
00:07:28.658 --> 00:07:29.038
Wow
00:07:29.858 --> 00:07:35.439
I started to be able to function normally, and I'm still, I'm starting to, I'm still increasing in that.
00:07:35.439 --> 00:07:43.699
I'm still, like, slowly able to do more and more to where I'm, I'm doing well- Wow these days, besides some new health stuff that's happened recently.
00:07:44.098 --> 00:07:50.329
But, um, doing well from that just with some, you know, residual pain and residual gut things and just the-
00:07:50.369 --> 00:07:53.509
So the Lyme, the Lyme is kind of under control right now?
00:07:53.509 --> 00:07:55.569
'Cause I know it's such an atrocious disease.
00:07:55.569 --> 00:07:58.538
I have so many friends with Lyme, and I've interviewed people with Lyme.
00:07:58.569 --> 00:08:01.418
I mean, is it under control now, so to speak?
00:08:02.329 --> 00:08:02.869
Yes.
00:08:02.918 --> 00:08:06.619
Yeah, the mold and the Lyme, I am doing, I'm doing well in that.
00:08:06.829 --> 00:08:09.048
I'm just dealing with the repercussions- Mm of having it.
00:08:09.059 --> 00:08:11.509
So it's like, okay, I'm doing well.
00:08:11.519 --> 00:08:11.528
Oh.
00:08:11.538 --> 00:08:17.829
I've kind of gotten to overcome some of those things, but now I gotta build up my body again, and it keeps crashing on me.
00:08:19.119 --> 00:08:19.728
Right.
00:08:20.369 --> 00:08:21.329
So, can you...
00:08:21.399 --> 00:08:26.689
Let's go into your recent health struggles before we jump into questions,'cause this is important as well.
00:08:26.699 --> 00:08:35.078
So, I mean, I can also s- I mean, I think basically Sarah recently, very recently experienced a number of mini strokes.
00:08:35.078 --> 00:08:35.979
Is that accurate?
00:08:35.999 --> 00:08:37.129
Or maybe you should explain this.
00:08:37.168 --> 00:08:39.879
A- and a TBI, which is a traumatic brain injury.
00:08:40.198 --> 00:08:42.418
Can you give us a high level gloss on that?
00:08:42.418 --> 00:08:45.208
Was it all of a sudden, like, hit you out of nowhere?
00:08:46.198 --> 00:08:46.609
Yeah.
00:08:46.609 --> 00:08:52.658
So because of that hi- medical history in the past, my body is not, it is, um, fragile.
00:08:53.528 --> 00:08:54.168
It's like-
00:08:54.278 --> 00:08:54.548
Yeah.
00:08:54.548 --> 00:08:54.563
Oh,
00:08:54.563 --> 00:08:57.019
yeah went that low, so it's not, and it's not built up yet.
00:08:57.028 --> 00:09:00.418
So the littler things- Right well, are hitting me harder.
00:09:00.788 --> 00:09:05.208
Um, and it's just- Right my husband and I got married a couple of years ago, just two years ago.
00:09:05.219 --> 00:09:05.389
Yeah.
00:09:05.389 --> 00:09:12.528
And I was overseas, like, right before, serving overseas before that, and so it's just been, like, all this stuff happening.
00:09:12.538 --> 00:09:23.269
And so because of that and, and overwork, I ended up with three- Wow suspected TIAs, which are mini strokes, and that's what caused, caused the traumatic brain injury, the TBI.
00:09:23.458 --> 00:09:23.688
Mm.
00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:26.349
Um, and that was just a couple of months ago.
00:09:26.369 --> 00:09:29.408
So I'm still right now in the thick- Wow of recovery.
00:09:29.458 --> 00:09:33.818
And I, I so appreciate everyone's grace for my thinking at the moment.
00:09:35.078 --> 00:09:35.448
Wow.
00:09:35.448 --> 00:09:39.239
Yeah, the brain fog and every- I mean, did you have to do rehab after those strokes?
00:09:39.278 --> 00:09:39.678
I mean-
00:09:40.654 --> 00:09:41.274
Yeah.
00:09:41.355 --> 00:09:49.985
It primarily, I mean, it affected my body and, like, my like, motor skills- Mm and things like that, but primarily affected my thinking.
00:09:50.325 --> 00:09:58.085
And so yeah, I'm s- Mm I'm still doing brain rehab a couple of months later, trying to get it back and going again, and still have...
00:09:58.105 --> 00:10:01.644
I've had a migraine since, um, for the last three months.
00:10:01.644 --> 00:10:03.554
It hasn't stopped in the last three months.
00:10:03.565 --> 00:10:05.115
Uh, the pounding migraine?
00:10:05.745 --> 00:10:06.654
It's up and down.
00:10:06.654 --> 00:10:07.554
Sometimes it's better.
00:10:07.554 --> 00:10:13.304
Right now, it's, it's on a, a good day, but, um, yeah, it just hasn't let up since, since those happened.
00:10:13.914 --> 00:10:18.184
So this is a new form of suffering since these strokes and the TBI.
00:10:18.195 --> 00:10:22.014
Like, these chronic migraines all of a sudden popped up, and you've never experienced that before?
00:10:22.284 --> 00:10:22.695
Nope.
00:10:23.284 --> 00:10:23.335
Ugh.
00:10:24.274 --> 00:10:24.634
Okay.
00:10:24.634 --> 00:10:25.024
Yeah.
00:10:25.065 --> 00:10:29.875
I mean, you know that part of my condition is chronic migraines, but mine presents as vertigo, among other things.
00:10:29.875 --> 00:10:31.575
But, so oh, wow.
00:10:31.575 --> 00:10:31.995
Okay.
00:10:31.995 --> 00:10:51.725
So all right, let's, let's step back, because I know what it's like, you know, not to get an answer to prayer or the deliverance you want for a very long time, and it sounds like you were in that space for about four years until finally at age 18, you know, you found answers, um, at least as far as the Lyme and the mold and those issues.
00:10:51.725 --> 00:10:59.784
So I'm wondering during those four years, though, when maybe even your, your schooling was impacted, you could talk about that- Mm how did your faith change?
00:10:59.784 --> 00:11:00.745
Were you a believer?
00:11:00.745 --> 00:11:03.544
How did your faith, you know, grow, change?
00:11:03.565 --> 00:11:04.934
You know, all the questions.
00:11:06.019 --> 00:11:06.719
Yeah.
00:11:06.899 --> 00:11:11.019
So, I mean, before I got sick, I, I grew up in a great home.
00:11:11.028 --> 00:11:13.089
I My parents love me.
00:11:13.089 --> 00:11:14.678
They taught me about Jesus.
00:11:14.708 --> 00:11:19.788
My life I, we moved around a lot, but otherwise, like, life was pretty bubble wrapped.
00:11:19.828 --> 00:11:21.769
It was, it was pretty good.
00:11:21.808 --> 00:11:25.278
Yeah and so because of that, my faith was pretty bubble wrapped too.
00:11:25.298 --> 00:11:32.609
It was just like,"Oh, this is what my parents believe, and I, you know, I have the- Yeah the Sunday school answers, and I'll go along with that.
00:11:32.619 --> 00:11:33.599
Sounds good to me."
00:11:33.979 --> 00:11:34.288
Yep.
00:11:35.649 --> 00:11:36.089
Um-
00:11:36.178 --> 00:11:37.328
Yeah, that was my story.
00:11:37.339 --> 00:11:40.208
You've got to- Yeah read my book'cause chapter one is literally that.
00:11:41.999 --> 00:11:42.458
Yep.
00:11:42.649 --> 00:12:01.938
And then, um, then the, the rubber hit the road, and my Uh, you know, I got sick, and part of that was my family started falling apart, you know, and started struggle- like, adding You add high medical bills and, and, um, caregiving and, you know, sibl- like, it's just all this stuff into that.
00:12:01.938 --> 00:12:07.918
And I- Yeah like I said, I, I wasn't able I missed a couple of years of school and had to make up for that later.
00:12:07.928 --> 00:12:11.178
And I, like, slowly lost- Yeah my friends.
00:12:11.178 --> 00:12:12.869
Because I was, I was 14.
00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:15.869
Like, we My friends- Yeah weren't equipped to deal with that either.
00:12:15.958 --> 00:12:17.019
Like, they didn't know-
00:12:17.028 --> 00:12:17.499
Right
00:12:17.599 --> 00:12:19.808
how to enter in, how to be with me in that.
00:12:19.808 --> 00:12:26.119
And I s- my, my world, which used to be I loved hiking, I lo- you know, whatever, kind of shrunk- Mm to my bedroom.
00:12:26.308 --> 00:12:27.528
And I know that, I know that's-
00:12:27.589 --> 00:12:28.198
Oh, my gosh
00:12:28.259 --> 00:12:29.448
your story as well.
00:12:29.458 --> 00:12:29.708
Yep.
00:12:30.158 --> 00:12:31.928
Um, yeah.
00:12:31.928 --> 00:12:31.938
So-
00:12:31.938 --> 00:12:34.328
And you were bedridden for a part of this time, right?
00:12:34.889 --> 00:12:36.438
You, you- Yeah told me that you were bedridden.
00:12:36.879 --> 00:12:37.379
Right.
00:12:37.379 --> 00:12:37.668
Yeah.
00:12:37.668 --> 00:12:44.389
So, like, when it was at its worst, I, I mean, I couldn't, I Like I said, couldn't feed myself, couldn't get out, couldn't, like couldn't do anything.
00:12:44.428 --> 00:12:44.678
Oh, my gosh.
00:12:45.058 --> 00:12:45.408
Yep.
00:12:45.458 --> 00:12:46.428
Um, yeah.
00:12:46.428 --> 00:12:48.599
So it, it shrunk, and I was in that.
00:12:48.599 --> 00:13:01.778
I'm sure we'll get into this, but, you know, lost the, the dreams and the There's all these things that was just part of There's the physical pain, but there's all the loss that comes with that, and all the e- connected things that go with that, and community and stuff like that.
00:13:02.038 --> 00:13:05.619
And so that really made my relationship with God like I just had to evaluate.
00:13:05.629 --> 00:13:11.619
Like, is this what I've grown up being told, does it match the reality I'm experiencing?
00:13:11.629 --> 00:13:20.349
How Like, can I reconcile the God that I have been told about with this, the circumstances that are happening, and, and what do I- Yeah do with that?
00:13:20.349 --> 00:13:34.129
And so I think that the key to the fact that I still, that I honestly, my faith grew through what I was experiencing rather than like, there were definitely moments of, like, questioning God and distance from God.
00:13:34.129 --> 00:13:42.558
But the fact that what kept my faith growing in that was asking God the, the questions that I have, and was, um, bringing him the raw, all the raw stuff.
00:13:42.589 --> 00:13:49.708
And I think that that's what allowed my relationship with him and my understanding of him to grow, was wrestling with that in the middle of all of it.
00:13:51.092 --> 00:13:51.352
Wow.
00:13:51.352 --> 00:13:55.643
And, and do you feel like He met you when you were questioning and wrestling with Him?
00:13:55.673 --> 00:14:01.423
You know, like, did, did He speak into your questions with verses or timely coincidences, or however He speaks to you?
00:14:01.423 --> 00:14:05.273
I mean, did He reveal Himself to you powerfully in those four years?
00:14:06.592 --> 00:14:07.523
Yes and no.
00:14:07.623 --> 00:14:10.863
Hmm so, so yes, I think He did, and sometimes He didn't.
00:14:11.202 --> 00:14:16.153
And sometimes I, I feel like one of the ways that, like, He didn't answer my question.
00:14:16.163 --> 00:14:24.572
Sometimes He, you know, over, like looking back, I can see, oh, maybe that's why this happened, or oh, maybe, like I see Him pr- protecting me or providing for me in that.
00:14:25.013 --> 00:14:28.773
But then there's also just, like I, Sorry.
00:14:30.442 --> 00:14:30.663
Yeah.
00:14:31.653 --> 00:14:33.763
Looking, yeah, like looking back, I can see that.
00:14:34.062 --> 00:14:38.212
But then at the time, I didn't necessarily have answers.
00:14:38.533 --> 00:14:45.913
Sometimes, like you're saying, like coincidence, like, like through p- His people or through circumstances or through His word, He would encourage me.
00:14:46.202 --> 00:14:52.332
But most often, it was more just His presence and knowing that He was there in those four years.
00:14:52.842 --> 00:14:52.863
Wow.
00:14:52.873 --> 00:14:58.643
Which has been encouraging to me now, because right now I've been begging for His presence, and I haven't been feeling it.
00:14:58.653 --> 00:15:18.812
But it's getting to, like look back on that time, and like, how I experienced Him, especially, honestly, as I got closer to, like dying was when I feel like I experienced this, like closeness with Him that I, I wonder if I will ever get to experience until I get to that place again or until heav- you know, like heaven.
00:15:19.202 --> 00:15:19.572
Yeah.
00:15:20.163 --> 00:15:22.832
Can you explain, like, what was that presence?
00:15:22.873 --> 00:15:24.993
'Cause I, I'm always like, what do people mean?
00:15:25.003 --> 00:15:32.802
I mean, I experience God in, in different ways, but one of the main ways is He speaks to me through coincidences, through His word, through people.
00:15:32.982 --> 00:15:39.972
But I never really feel, like I don't feel Him, like, ahh, you know, coming into my room or, or a feeling or you know.
00:15:39.982 --> 00:15:43.802
What you're describing a presence you felt when you were a teenager.
00:15:43.802 --> 00:15:44.722
What was that?
00:15:44.722 --> 00:15:47.222
Is it a feeling that you're not feeling now?
00:15:47.332 --> 00:15:49.523
Is it like a tangible sensation?
00:15:51.293 --> 00:15:55.322
I don't have a great answer for this,'cause I don't know if someone's, like, talked to me about this before.
00:15:55.602 --> 00:15:57.072
But- You just know that He's there.
00:15:57.072 --> 00:15:58.192
It's like this knowing.
00:15:58.192 --> 00:15:59.482
It's like this inner spirit
00:16:00.062 --> 00:16:00.102
knowing.
00:16:00.613 --> 00:16:00.633
Yeah.
00:16:00.793 --> 00:16:03.842
It's like a knowing, but also, I mean, sometimes a peace.
00:16:04.182 --> 00:16:16.923
Sometimes, um, again, like, through, like, knowing that He's there by, like you're saying, like, seeing, you know, Him, maybe other people showing up and saying the thing that they didn't, they shouldn't even know to say, you know?
00:16:17.732 --> 00:16:18.232
Oh my gosh.
00:16:18.232 --> 00:16:18.673
Like that.
00:16:19.783 --> 00:16:20.182
Yeah.
00:16:20.613 --> 00:16:34.783
That has happened to me so many times, where people will say things, and I'm like,"You have no idea that someone else just said that, and you have no reason to be saying that,'cause you don't even know what I'm dealing with this over here." Like- Right it's amazing how He speaks through His children to us.
00:16:35.123 --> 00:16:35.682
Right.
00:16:35.692 --> 00:16:36.462
Yeah.
00:16:36.962 --> 00:16:37.212
Yeah.
00:16:37.212 --> 00:16:41.173
So that's kinda what you're say- I mean, I've experienced His presence in that way as well.
00:16:41.182 --> 00:16:41.342
Mm-hmm.
00:16:41.383 --> 00:16:47.653
I'm wondering why now you don't fee- I mean, maybe He's- I mean, I don't wanna say testing you,'cause it sounds so, like, condescending.
00:16:47.653 --> 00:16:48.602
I mean, we're all in testing.
00:16:48.602 --> 00:16:50.832
But it's like, I wonder why you don't feel that now.
00:16:50.832 --> 00:17:00.893
I mean, the reality is sometimes, and f- when I was bedridden, there were many times where I was like,"Where are you?" Like- Mm-hmm because He's not answering the prayers the way you want, it feels like He's not there.
00:17:01.003 --> 00:17:03.493
Or I don't know, why do you think you don't feel it now?
00:17:04.252 --> 00:17:05.053
'Cause that's what you said.
00:17:05.053 --> 00:17:05.262
You
00:17:05.262 --> 00:17:06.732
know, I would love to know that.
00:17:06.762 --> 00:17:09.353
I, I feel like- Yeah um-
00:17:09.512 --> 00:17:10.182
And that's okay when
00:17:10.393 --> 00:17:18.403
I was really, like, in high school, especially, like, when I was, like, really, really out of it and dying, I think I- Yeah I got in my head less.
00:17:18.752 --> 00:17:26.803
I think that my, my relationship with God was able to be more, like, it was maybe more, it felt more spiritual.
00:17:27.002 --> 00:17:31.472
Because it was like- Mm I think I was just, I was so, struggling so much.
00:17:31.472 --> 00:17:34.603
I was like- Surrender overthinking it less potentially.
00:17:34.782 --> 00:17:34.803
Wow.
00:17:34.982 --> 00:17:44.732
As well as also- Right like, desperate and going, like, moment by moment, like,"Okay, I, you know, I have to get through the next 30 minutes of pain." I can't think beyond that.
00:17:44.732 --> 00:17:45.103
Yeah.
00:17:45.103 --> 00:17:52.903
So it's just like,"Jesus, help." And just, like, pointed, maybe, um, just kind of throwing myself at Him more.
00:17:53.083 --> 00:17:53.542
Yeah.
00:17:53.633 --> 00:17:54.377
I don't know why.
00:17:54.377 --> 00:17:54.613
Yeah.
00:17:54.613 --> 00:17:59.663
'Cause I feel like I've been praying a lot lately too, of like,"God, where are you?
00:18:00.343 --> 00:18:00.502
What-
00:18:00.512 --> 00:18:02.932
But no, this is a great, this is a great...
00:18:03.022 --> 00:18:05.883
Thank you for being honest,'cause you are like a warrior in the Lord.
00:18:05.893 --> 00:18:13.762
You've been with Him through all your pain, and in now you're giving us a genuine testimony of, no, we don't f- sometimes we do feel like He's silent.
00:18:13.762 --> 00:18:18.143
There's this mystery a bit where sometimes, yes, He is near to the broken-hearted.
00:18:18.143 --> 00:18:18.952
You've experienced it.
00:18:18.952 --> 00:18:19.742
I've experienced it.
00:18:19.742 --> 00:18:25.972
But I think there are certain times where He's, He's saying, and I experienced this o- you know, on the bed the first three years.
00:18:25.972 --> 00:18:27.313
Like, He's saying,"Trust me.
00:18:27.313 --> 00:18:33.553
I'm not going to, you know, give you, you know, flashing lights every second," you know?
00:18:33.553 --> 00:18:33.563
Right.
00:18:33.563 --> 00:18:34.593
It's kind of like He...
00:18:35.022 --> 00:18:35.363
I don't know.
00:18:35.383 --> 00:18:36.732
It's a mystery, you know?
00:18:36.833 --> 00:18:37.462
Yes.
00:18:37.502 --> 00:18:45.502
I, I was, um, sharing, there was this, this, uh, as a young adult, like, there was this teenager that I was sharing the gospel with.
00:18:46.032 --> 00:19:00.426
And he- Yeah was praying these really bold, like, really- Bold, but also, like, to me, not very spiritual prayers,'cause he was like- Mm-hmm we were encouraging him, like,"Ask God," you know,"Talk to him," like,"Pray," whatever,'cause he was still, like, trying to figure out if he believed in God or not.
00:19:00.777 --> 00:19:01.057
Yeah.
00:19:01.076 --> 00:19:16.596
But he would pray for like,"I wanna go on this trip, God," and then- like, God would ma- like connect all these dots that shouldn't have, like He shouldn't have been able to go on the trip, and all of a sudden He would come to us the next day of like,"God made it so I could go on the trip." And I'm like,"That's great.
00:19:16.936 --> 00:19:19.737
Why is He answering my prayers like that," right?
00:19:22.267 --> 00:19:22.307
Yeah.
00:19:22.497 --> 00:19:25.027
Um, but I feel like He does, like, depend...
00:19:25.586 --> 00:19:27.156
He knows where we're, where we're at.
00:19:27.156 --> 00:19:36.916
He knows, like, we're each in a different place in our journey with Him, and what we're, you know, like our maturity or our capacity or our ability or whatever.
00:19:37.376 --> 00:19:37.757
Yeah.
00:19:38.646 --> 00:19:41.207
I really think it's like testing in some sense.
00:19:41.207 --> 00:19:43.596
It's like we're always growing.
00:19:43.596 --> 00:19:46.517
Like, if you're this spiritually mature, He will take you here.
00:19:46.517 --> 00:19:49.807
And I'm not saying you're spiritually immature,'cause like He's done the same thing with me.
00:19:49.807 --> 00:19:50.886
It's like, I don't know.
00:19:50.886 --> 00:19:52.557
I mean, look at Job, right?
00:19:52.567 --> 00:19:57.517
It's like- Right you know, Job felt like God had turned His face away, even though Job was the most righteous man.
00:19:57.517 --> 00:20:01.507
So that's, that your story right now, your moment right now reminds me a lot of Job.
00:20:01.507 --> 00:20:07.916
Like, cling to that'cause it's like God is I mean, I'm not saying He's testing you, but He, I, I mean, you get what I'm saying.
00:20:07.916 --> 00:20:07.926
Yeah.
00:20:07.926 --> 00:20:10.057
He's testing all of us with these disciplines.
00:20:10.067 --> 00:20:20.027
But I, I wanna ask, like, what assumptions about God do you think you had that unraveled when you started facing prolonged suffering?
00:20:20.037 --> 00:20:20.047
Mm.
00:20:20.527 --> 00:20:27.047
Like,'cause obviously some Christians believe the false prosperity gospel, and that's dismantled very quickly when you don't get healed.
00:20:27.336 --> 00:20:29.807
Or, you know, you're like,"Why would a good God do this?
00:20:29.807 --> 00:20:36.696
I thought God heals everyone." What, what assumptions did you, d- flipped upside down for you through your prolonged suffering?
00:20:38.336 --> 00:20:50.265
This one took me a while, and I'm still wrestling with it, but I- When I first, like the first couple years, I think I was pretty self-righteous and I was like- Oh.
00:20:51.704 --> 00:21:06.204
I was like, the, you know, like,"Okay," like,"This is for the glory of God." And- Right I, I felt like I, I, I could, that was how I got myself through stuff was like, this is, like- Mm-hmm okay, if God is glorified in it and if God is glorified in it.
00:21:06.204 --> 00:21:10.414
And a couple of years ago, a mentor was like,"What does that mean?" Like,"What do you mean?
00:21:11.365 --> 00:21:19.025
How is God, how is your suffering glorifying God?" And I was like,"It just like, if I obey Hi- like, it brings Him glory.
00:21:19.025 --> 00:21:36.974
Like, that's the purpose in these things." And he said, um, the mentor was like,"Well," ba- basically, it was like,"God's glory is His love." And I think that when I first started walking into suffering, I was like seeing myself as some kind of, I don't know, martyr, but that's not the right word.
00:21:36.974 --> 00:21:37.674
Martyr, yeah.
00:21:37.704 --> 00:21:38.164
Oh yeah.
00:21:38.265 --> 00:21:39.224
We've all had that.
00:21:39.265 --> 00:21:39.674
Right.
00:21:39.855 --> 00:21:41.525
I mean, it gets you through, you know?
00:21:41.525 --> 00:21:44.315
You're like,"Yes, I'm leading the charge." For sure.
00:21:44.315 --> 00:21:44.345
Like-
00:21:45.454 --> 00:21:45.984
Yeah.
00:21:46.035 --> 00:21:46.904
Exactly.
00:21:47.214 --> 00:21:47.684
Yeah.
00:21:47.744 --> 00:21:50.555
Um, but I, and that's not like wrong.
00:21:50.565 --> 00:21:50.595
Well,
00:21:50.605 --> 00:21:52.234
it's not un-biblical, yeah.
00:21:52.234 --> 00:21:52.265
Right.
00:21:52.265 --> 00:21:54.234
But, but what are you getting at, though?
00:21:54.684 --> 00:21:57.634
But I, what, what glorify...
00:21:57.654 --> 00:22:05.484
Like, pain in itself doesn't, isn't necessarily like people look at pain and like,"Ooh, glory, gl- glory to God,"'cause of pain.
00:22:05.494 --> 00:22:21.295
They're looking at it and they're like,"Glory to God because He, you know, because He is caring for you in that, or because He is providing for you in that, or because there's a way, He's provided a way out eventually." You know, we look at Revelation 21 and we dr- you know, we dream of, of, um-
00:22:21.305 --> 00:22:21.605
Yeah
00:22:21.684 --> 00:22:27.545
like when you're going through suffering, you're, you're, the heaven looks so exciting you know?
00:22:27.545 --> 00:22:27.615
Like-
00:22:27.615 --> 00:22:28.144
Oh, yeah
00:22:28.144 --> 00:22:28.714
you're, you're ready
00:22:28.714 --> 00:22:29.075
for- I know.
00:22:29.194 --> 00:22:30.075
You and I get that.
00:22:30.075 --> 00:22:33.204
I feel like you and I prob- like we, does eternity encourage you?
00:22:33.214 --> 00:22:40.484
'Cause I feel like, and not to be mean to, against some of my friends, but it's like I feel like people think I'm a loony whenever I'm like,"I'm excited about heaven," you know?
00:22:40.694 --> 00:22:42.285
It's like, we're Christian, guys.
00:22:42.295 --> 00:22:42.944
Hello.
00:22:42.994 --> 00:22:45.075
Like, this is the point, you know?
00:22:45.184 --> 00:22:48.144
And especially'cause my husband is there now, it's like even more...
00:22:48.295 --> 00:22:49.934
I mean, not in like a suicidal way.
00:22:49.944 --> 00:22:52.275
It just- Right this is our hope, you know?
00:22:52.325 --> 00:22:52.525
Yeah.
00:22:52.525 --> 00:22:55.174
And when you have chronic illness, have you felt the same way?
00:22:55.755 --> 00:22:56.744
Oh, absolutely.
00:22:56.755 --> 00:23:15.419
Like, I, whatever, with chronic illness or whatever suffering, like- I think that, like, lamenting what is not how it's- how God designed it to be here is, like, part of worshiping and part of, like, eagerly anticipating that, like- Oh what will be.
00:23:16.739 --> 00:23:17.118
Yeah.
00:23:17.368 --> 00:23:17.548
Yeah.
00:23:18.098 --> 00:23:19.538
But can you get back to the glory?
00:23:19.568 --> 00:23:25.618
So you were saying, okay, your mentor said that your pain- Right is not, uh, he didn't say it's not for the glory of God, because obviously it is.
00:23:25.628 --> 00:23:32.048
But you're saying- Right the mechanism is people see the pain, and then they are astonished that God is helping you in the pain?
00:23:33.058 --> 00:23:38.909
What makes our God so great is that He is with us in the middle of this.
00:23:38.919 --> 00:23:51.419
Like, you look at all the other religions, all the, you know, whatever, and what we have in, in Christianity is a God of love, and a God who is- who enters into the pain with us and who even...
00:23:51.429 --> 00:23:59.439
And like, Jesus came and, and bore it with us so that we could be free from it eventually in heaven.
00:23:59.449 --> 00:23:59.469
Yeah.
00:23:59.479 --> 00:24:16.348
And so I think, like, I think one of the, like, things that I'm still wrestling with but that I've started to ponder over the last couple of years, um, and that I didn't totally get when I first became chronically ill, was just that, like, it's not about, you know, it's not about my endurance.
00:24:16.348 --> 00:24:17.538
It's, it's not about that.
00:24:17.538 --> 00:24:19.949
It's about His, His love in it.
00:24:19.959 --> 00:24:22.759
It's not that, oh, we have a God- Mm-hmm who, like...
00:24:23.318 --> 00:24:25.598
Well, the suffering itself isn't what glorifies God.
00:24:25.618 --> 00:24:26.459
It's that He...
00:24:26.838 --> 00:24:28.269
It's all the things connected to that.
00:24:28.269 --> 00:24:34.479
It's the, eventually there won't be any because of because of His- Mm-hmm what Jesus came and did.
00:24:34.679 --> 00:24:38.048
It's, oh, He enters into it, and that's, like, His love in this.
00:24:38.058 --> 00:24:43.038
It- both in the form of Jesus, but also you know, like, the Holy Spirit with us now.
00:24:43.308 --> 00:24:50.659
And then it's also, like, even the fact that there is suffering is because humans had free will to choose sin.
00:24:50.669 --> 00:24:53.669
And so it's like, um- Yeah it just, just...
00:24:53.699 --> 00:24:57.169
I mean, it's honestly still something I'm wrestling with, but just, like, that-
00:24:57.169 --> 00:24:57.628
Yeah
00:24:57.628 --> 00:25:03.009
that adjustment of, like, it's not my, my self-righteous I'm, I'm enduring.
00:25:03.009 --> 00:25:10.249
Which is, like, great, but when our hearts get to be just coming, like, uh, trusting in Him...
00:25:10.578 --> 00:25:15.528
and again, why would we trust in Him except that He is loving, except that He is powerful?
00:25:15.528 --> 00:25:21.288
And so it's, like, those things, not the, like, just sheer endurance itself that I-
00:25:21.308 --> 00:25:21.868
Right.
00:25:21.989 --> 00:25:22.348
Yeah.
00:25:23.769 --> 00:25:24.388
That's a good...
00:25:24.398 --> 00:25:24.808
That's...
00:25:25.419 --> 00:25:27.669
I'm glad you said that, because I agree with you.
00:25:27.669 --> 00:25:37.298
Like, a lot of times what motivates me, frankly, is, yeah, that is something to reflect on,'cause it's, it- it's about me in the sense that I'm like,"I'm persevering for the Lord," and I'm...
00:25:37.298 --> 00:25:37.538
You know.
00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:39.009
And, and this is true.
00:25:39.028 --> 00:25:39.759
This is biblical.
00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:45.009
Like, Romans 3:5 says,"Pers- Right um, you know, p- suffering creates, you know, perseverance.
00:25:45.009 --> 00:25:46.038
Perseverance, character.
00:25:46.038 --> 00:25:56.818
Character, hope." And so it's like there is that aspect of our s- you know, part of His glory is our endurance to the sufferings.
00:25:56.818 --> 00:26:00.209
But you're right, it ultimately is about how He is helping us endure.
00:26:00.209 --> 00:26:02.118
None of it is about us, you know?
00:26:02.848 --> 00:26:05.409
Have you experienced...
00:26:05.409 --> 00:26:06.398
Well, actually, let me ask you this.
00:26:06.429 --> 00:26:08.179
Like,'cause you and I had such a similar background.
00:26:08.209 --> 00:26:10.939
Like, in Sunday school, you know, they don't tell you to take up your cross.
00:26:10.959 --> 00:26:13.009
They don't tell us some of us will have chronic illnesses.
00:26:13.019 --> 00:26:13.048
Right.
00:26:13.058 --> 00:26:15.509
They don't tell us, you know, a spouse is not guaranteed.
00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:17.919
They don't tell us a long life is guaranteed.
00:26:18.449 --> 00:26:25.449
And so it's like you and I were raised in this context of,"God is so good." Like, all I'm getting is a Band-Aid occasionally, and, like, I get hikes with my family.
00:26:25.449 --> 00:26:28.219
Like, who wouldn't want eternal life in Jesus, you know, like that?
00:26:28.648 --> 00:26:35.267
And then we start suffering and- You realize Jesus said,"Take up your cross." Like, have you thought about the take up your cross idea?
00:26:35.267 --> 00:26:42.787
'Cause sometimes I'm like,"Lord, why does this need to be the, the condition for discipleship?" Like, why do you ask us to take up our cross?
00:26:42.787 --> 00:26:44.487
Like, you already took up the cross.
00:26:44.876 --> 00:26:53.156
Why do you think after going through so much of your own suffering and now you're taking up new crosses, why do you think he, he calls us to this?
00:26:53.166 --> 00:26:56.267
Why can't we go from joy on Earth to joy in heaven?
00:26:56.267 --> 00:26:58.257
Why is it always cross to glory?
00:26:58.287 --> 00:26:59.616
That's the gospel pattern.
00:27:00.843 --> 00:27:01.553
Mm-hmm
00:27:02.712 --> 00:27:03.653
You know what I'm saying?
00:27:03.663 --> 00:27:03.972
Like-
00:27:03.982 --> 00:27:05.883
Yeah, absolutely.
00:27:06.962 --> 00:27:08.633
Yeah, I mean, I totally relate to that.
00:27:09.923 --> 00:27:14.593
I feel like, um, something that I...
00:27:15.593 --> 00:27:28.442
Uh, you know, we were talking about, like, how maybe my theology or understanding of God has shifted or changed, and I feel like it's that, you know- Yeah looking at, um, John 16, where it's like- Okay we're promised suffering.
00:27:29.553 --> 00:27:30.502
Uh, we're, we're-
00:27:30.502 --> 00:27:31.113
Oh, gosh.
00:27:31.952 --> 00:27:32.573
We're not...
00:27:32.583 --> 00:27:37.653
Like, it's not like a sur- it's honestly a surprise when there's not suffering.
00:27:37.843 --> 00:27:38.123
If you...
00:27:38.133 --> 00:27:40.432
Like, if, in life as a whole, potentially.
00:27:40.742 --> 00:27:44.532
Um, you know, some people- Yeah watching this might be coming from different places in their life.
00:27:44.563 --> 00:27:45.573
But can you...
00:27:45.692 --> 00:27:46.403
Sorry, what was...
00:27:46.432 --> 00:27:47.522
The question is, like-
00:27:48.182 --> 00:27:51.403
The question is, like, why does He call us to take up our cross?
00:27:51.413 --> 00:27:51.423
Mm.
00:27:51.442 --> 00:27:53.212
Like, it's such a shocking...
00:27:53.413 --> 00:28:03.262
Like, if you're not, if you're an unbeliever and you, you know, your Christian friend is like,"You wanna sign up for Christianity, the first condition is denying yourself." I mean, and I'm not mocking the Lord, I'm trying to...
00:28:03.772 --> 00:28:09.343
It's so a- alarming to even us believers because we hate suffering.
00:28:09.782 --> 00:28:13.032
And so I feel like God's calling is so high, and yet you're right.
00:28:13.042 --> 00:28:22.893
Jesus said,"In this life you will have trouble, but take heart, I have overcome the world." But sometimes my analytical self is like,"Lord, why do we need to suffer to get to glory?
00:28:22.893 --> 00:28:31.143
Why can't we just have only joy on Earth to get to joy in Heaven?" And maybe that's the fallen world, and that's why God- Mm allows us.
00:28:31.182 --> 00:28:32.252
You know, what do you think?
00:28:33.012 --> 00:28:33.553
Yeah.
00:28:33.603 --> 00:28:34.853
No, you're, you're so right.
00:28:34.893 --> 00:28:37.833
I mean, I don't know.
00:28:38.522 --> 00:28:39.512
I'm asking him that
00:28:39.512 --> 00:28:39.657
too.
00:28:39.657 --> 00:28:39.803
Right?
00:28:39.803 --> 00:28:40.952
It's a mystery.
00:28:41.212 --> 00:28:44.353
I I'm definitely asking him that.
00:28:44.442 --> 00:28:45.903
And I continue to ask him that.
00:28:46.242 --> 00:28:51.992
Especially'cause, like, it's, it's funny, this is something I've been thinking about lately'cause, like, I, I was, you know, I was sick for high school.
00:28:51.992 --> 00:28:54.242
I still re- still have residual stuff from that.
00:28:54.583 --> 00:28:56.063
And so I'm like,"God, I've done this.
00:28:56.093 --> 00:28:57.762
Like, I've, I've been here, done this.
00:28:57.792 --> 00:29:01.752
I know, you know, I know I've, I've-" Yeah gained all the things I ha- I...
00:29:01.772 --> 00:29:02.432
in my pride.
00:29:02.432 --> 00:29:06.182
I've gained all the things I have to gain- from this type of suffering.
00:29:06.222 --> 00:29:07.923
Can we, can we be done with it now?
00:29:08.532 --> 00:29:10.583
Like, wh- why is this...
00:29:10.782 --> 00:29:11.383
Why are there new things?
00:29:11.452 --> 00:29:11.573
Yeah.
00:29:11.903 --> 00:29:13.103
Why is this going on?
00:29:13.563 --> 00:29:13.893
And so-
00:29:13.893 --> 00:29:15.343
Has he spoken into that?
00:29:15.393 --> 00:29:17.633
I mean, when you ask,"Lord, isn't enough enough?
00:29:17.633 --> 00:29:23.792
Why do I need these strokes now, these chronic migraines?" Has he spoken into that at all, you know, when you ask the why question?
00:29:25.593 --> 00:29:26.012
Maybe.
00:29:27.163 --> 00:29:39.163
I, some of the- Mm things that I have been pondering and holding onto in that is, um, just that, like, At least, um, that's where I've landed in this wrestling, and I encourage everyone to wrestle in that yourself.
00:29:39.542 --> 00:29:44.932
But I think that looking back at my life, I see that He has been those things, that He is those things.
00:29:44.952 --> 00:29:51.502
And so, um, right now I have to believe that He sees more than I do.
00:29:51.752 --> 00:29:53.923
I have to believe that He knows more than I do.
00:29:53.923 --> 00:30:01.682
I don't know the answer to those things, but I'm choosing- Mm right now to believe that there is that, I mean, like, what was it?
00:30:01.712 --> 00:30:08.553
Uh, Lamentations, where he was like,"The Lord doesn't afflict from the heart." I think it's Lamentations 3.
00:30:08.863 --> 00:30:09.782
Oh, yeah.
00:30:10.643 --> 00:30:15.333
And it's just like, that's where I've been right now is, like, I, I don't know why this is happening.
00:30:15.343 --> 00:30:16.762
I don't know why this is happening again.
00:30:16.932 --> 00:30:23.722
Like, I could see, okay- Yeah the first time I learned these things, I matured this way, my relationship with God got better, grew deeper- Right or whatever.
00:30:23.762 --> 00:30:25.063
God brought a ministry out of it.
00:30:25.063 --> 00:30:29.863
Like, there's all these great things, but there's also like, what's going on now, and why is this happening now?
00:30:29.863 --> 00:30:33.722
And why a- again, even though it's a little different, but why again?
00:30:33.722 --> 00:30:35.732
And so I just keep coming back to that.
00:30:35.732 --> 00:30:41.673
Like, either, either He is all-powerful and loving and therefore trustworthy, or He is not.
00:30:41.782 --> 00:30:52.722
But I think that He is, and so because I, that I have to trust that there's something in this, that there's some purpose in this because His, the heart of God is love.
00:30:53.093 --> 00:31:00.032
Um, and the heart of God in His Word is, is for His people, and this doesn't feel like it's for me right now.
00:31:00.063 --> 00:31:05.383
It doesn't feel like there's some kind- Mm you know, it doesn't feel like good is coming out of it.
00:31:05.843 --> 00:31:13.053
But I- Yeah have to believe that there is, this is the, that if I could see everything He could, I would choose the same route.
00:31:13.373 --> 00:31:13.673
Like,
00:31:14.073 --> 00:31:15.032
if I- That's what's hard.
00:31:15.232 --> 00:31:16.042
That's what's hard.
00:31:16.042 --> 00:31:16.222
Right.
00:31:16.222 --> 00:31:19.053
It's like, oh, my gosh,'cause the pain is so real.
00:31:19.303 --> 00:31:19.333
Right.
00:31:19.343 --> 00:31:21.482
And yet that's what He's calling us to, right?
00:31:21.492 --> 00:31:29.250
It's like-"Trust me, I know what's best." And it's like that phrase always ge- used to get up my gander.
00:31:29.280 --> 00:31:33.730
And honestly, like only recently I've been able to like This is how prideful I am, Sarah.
00:31:33.730 --> 00:31:48.161
Like it's like only recently, like this last year, have I been able to finally'Cause it's like when you lose your health and your hus- I mean, I'm not justifying, but it's like- No when people used to say,"God knows what's best," I would kind of cringe'cause I'm like,"Lord, this is not best.
00:31:48.181 --> 00:31:53.431
I don't understand this." And yet the Lord spoke into it and said,"I see the bigger picture.
00:31:53.461 --> 00:31:59.371
You have to trust me." And it's like, okay, I guess I don't, I don't know what I'm talking about.
00:31:59.401 --> 00:32:00.911
I don't see all of eternity.
00:32:01.270 --> 00:32:03.631
But when you are in the fire, it's so hard.
00:32:03.631 --> 00:32:04.750
Like do you relate to this?
00:32:04.750 --> 00:32:05.000
Like
00:32:06.111 --> 00:32:07.340
Oh, absolutely.
00:32:07.340 --> 00:32:11.971
I mean, it's that, it's that- it's combination of, of trusting and lamenting.
00:32:11.990 --> 00:32:14.240
And, and like it's- Yeah really hard.
00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:21.951
But like even, I mean, before Adam and Eve sinned, like death wasn't the design for us.
00:32:22.020 --> 00:32:22.941
Death wasn't like-
00:32:22.941 --> 00:32:23.411
Right
00:32:23.691 --> 00:32:26.391
it's wasn't the best that He had for us.
00:32:26.431 --> 00:32:34.161
And so, I mean, I'm not, I'm not trying to speak into your specific situation at all, but like just the- Yeah lamenting with the trusting.
00:32:34.411 --> 00:32:37.451
And I think that even like lamenting and being like,"This sucks.
00:32:37.461 --> 00:32:38.580
This doesn't make sense.
00:32:38.651 --> 00:32:39.840
I don't understand.
00:32:39.851 --> 00:32:43.340
This feels terrible," is honestly an act of trust.
00:32:43.411 --> 00:32:56.971
Like it's an act of, of trusting that there's something else, and that He, He is, He loves us enough and He's patient enough to like hear all of, all of our,"This is how it should be," and,"I don't understand why you're doing this, God."
00:32:58.798 --> 00:33:10.929
Yeah, I, I agree with, and to get back to your point of like what's the good he's bringing out, obviously we s- we saw how he redeemed your first batch of suffering in your teenage years by bringing out, about the Diamonds ministry.
00:33:10.969 --> 00:33:20.679
I mean, he has used you to encourage chronic illness sufferers around the US, and so now even though you can't see the purpose, it helps you cling because you've seen his hand.
00:33:20.689 --> 00:33:29.348
But what I wanted to say,'cause you already said that, what I wanted to say is like Romans 8:28 is still hard nonetheless,'cause for me I'm always like,"Lord, that's so vague.
00:33:29.558 --> 00:33:31.778
What is the good that you're talking about?
00:33:31.808 --> 00:33:32.888
Is it for me?
00:33:32.898 --> 00:33:34.638
Is it for eternity?
00:33:34.638 --> 00:33:53.449
Is it for everyone?" Like, I mean, there are verses which suggest, as you know, like Colossians 1:24 and other verses where Paul's like,"Hey, if we're suffering, it's for your comfort." Like, my suffering is leading to your salvation, like all these mysterious verses about us being poured out like wine and, and, and broken like bread.
00:33:53.778 --> 00:34:01.148
So I mean, what I'm saying is there's so many reasons he allows suffering, and part of it is, I think, just edifying the body.
00:34:01.229 --> 00:34:01.499
You know?
00:34:01.499 --> 00:34:05.068
It's not only a testimony to unbelievers, but also edifying the body.
00:34:05.068 --> 00:34:06.159
Like, do you agree with that?
00:34:07.038 --> 00:34:07.409
Yeah.
00:34:07.449 --> 00:34:16.099
I actually, I had pulled up the, the 2 Corinthians where, you know, Paul's talking about like,"If we're afflicted, it's for your comfort and salvation.
00:34:16.099 --> 00:34:31.059
If we're comforted, it's for your comfort." Um, but even like- Yeah before that, it's also like, talking about God, and he's like,"Who comforts us in all our affliction so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction with the comfort that we ourselves receive from God.
00:34:31.438 --> 00:34:39.708
For as we share-" Yeah"abundantly in Christ's sufferings, so through Christ we share abundantly in comfort too." And just like that, taking up that cross, I don't know.
00:34:39.759 --> 00:34:48.282
I don't know the whole reason of like why he gives us a cross, but I think there is like this- Yeah there is Anecdotally, in, in my life, there's a...
00:34:48.753 --> 00:34:58.253
I've experienced that closeness with God in ways that I don't when things are going well, even if I'm-
00:34:58.262 --> 00:34:58.612
Mm
00:34:58.782 --> 00:35:01.492
in the right place spiritually, like when- Yeah things are going well.
00:35:01.503 --> 00:35:01.523
Wow.
00:35:01.532 --> 00:35:06.202
There's just, there's a comfort that only exists in the context of suffering, I think.
00:35:07.202 --> 00:35:14.782
I agree with you, and sometimes I wonder, like, I mean, I never experienced God like this before eight years ago, and I, I wonder why sometimes.
00:35:14.793 --> 00:35:22.443
I'm like, Lord, when it says He draws near to the broken-hearted, and I'm not blaming Him, but it's like w- I think it's our fault really when we're healthy.
00:35:22.443 --> 00:35:26.032
Even if we're spiritually in a good place, our hearts just...
00:35:26.472 --> 00:35:27.523
I don't know how to put it.
00:35:27.652 --> 00:35:32.992
Like, if you have the good blessings on Earth, you're not inclined to just...
00:35:33.152 --> 00:35:35.603
I mean, some people are, like the most spiritually mature of us.
00:35:35.612 --> 00:35:39.873
But it's like i definitely wasn't like, you know, I'm only focusing on heaven.
00:35:39.873 --> 00:35:43.483
I was excited about heaven but nowhere near where I am now, you know?
00:35:44.222 --> 00:35:44.663
Yeah.
00:35:45.043 --> 00:35:46.202
I mean, I don't think I even- But al-
00:35:46.362 --> 00:35:46.833
Oh, go ahead.
00:35:47.032 --> 00:35:49.143
I don't think I even really looked into heaven before.
00:35:49.152 --> 00:35:52.583
Like, I didn't-- I was just like, oh yeah, vaguely, like that's good, whatever.
00:35:52.583 --> 00:35:52.833
It wasn't-
00:35:52.833 --> 00:35:54.043
When I'm at 98, you know.
00:35:54.043 --> 00:35:54.273
Wait,
00:35:54.273 --> 00:35:56.822
I need to know what it is I'm hoping for because this sucks.
00:35:58.362 --> 00:35:59.353
Yeah, exactly.
00:36:00.112 --> 00:36:02.322
You know, your story also reminds me of...
00:36:02.523 --> 00:36:09.072
Well, my, my story and your story is similar because, like, I've taken a lot of encouragement from Paul's chronic thorn in the flesh.
00:36:09.103 --> 00:36:12.262
Like, like, this guy gets beaten, stoned, shipwrecked.
00:36:12.273 --> 00:36:12.853
Like he's...
00:36:13.063 --> 00:36:22.043
And then on top of it, like, God gives him this thorn in the flesh, and the reason is that he says like,"God didn't want me to get prideful." Conceited.
00:36:22.253 --> 00:36:25.503
Like, he says this was sent, you know, to make sure- Yes that I don't, you know.
00:36:25.663 --> 00:36:30.202
And so, and I'm thinking like,"Doesn't the guy have enough, like, to keep him humble?" You know?
00:36:30.492 --> 00:36:32.023
And so that kinda answers your question.
00:36:32.023 --> 00:36:33.032
Maybe that can encourage you.
00:36:33.032 --> 00:36:35.822
Like, aw, it, haven't I learned this already, you know?
00:36:35.922 --> 00:36:41.742
And I'm not saying he's doing this to you to keep you prideful or not to, you know, strip you of your pride like Paul or something.
00:36:42.052 --> 00:36:50.635
I'm just saying like sometimes us saints, it's just- I don't think there's ever, like, a quota on suffering, for better or worse.
00:36:50.635 --> 00:36:55.385
Like, even Joni Eareckson Tada, on top of being a paraplegic, then she gets- Right three cancers.
00:36:55.385 --> 00:37:01.324
I mean, it's like, enough is enough, Lord, and yet he's saying,"No, this is what is best." Right.
00:37:01.405 --> 00:37:09.585
So we're either gonna believe God knows what's best, full stop, and believe it, or we're gonna be like this makes no sense." Do you know what I'm saying?
00:37:09.775 --> 00:37:10.304
Right.
00:37:10.375 --> 00:37:12.155
And sometimes it might be both.
00:37:12.375 --> 00:37:13.224
It might be like
00:37:14.275 --> 00:37:14.295
Yeah.
00:37:14.644 --> 00:37:16.425
I believe it- and this makes no sense.
00:37:18.362 --> 00:37:25.472
If you've ever felt like life's challenges are burning a little too hot and asking the Lord why, I wrote something just for you.
00:37:25.543 --> 00:37:34.853
My number one bestselling Christian memoir, Singing Through Fire, is about finding Christ's surprising joys in the middle of life's most severe storms.
00:37:35.003 --> 00:37:41.693
As someone who's lost my health, career, and husband, I have a lot to say about how God walks us through great grief.
00:37:41.722 --> 00:37:52.963
This book is for those who have questioned God's will or struggled with bitterness, anger, or a thousand unanswered questions, yet who still dared to believe that Christ is right there in the flames with us.
00:37:52.992 --> 00:37:59.123
It's filled with honest theological wrestling, tons of comedy, and many biblical reasons why God allows suffering.
00:37:59.132 --> 00:38:01.302
Some will definitely surprise you.
00:38:01.342 --> 00:38:10.242
If you're walking through loss today, this book will give you powerful hope and faith to keep trusting and make you laugh and ugly cry at the same time.
00:38:10.262 --> 00:38:17.293
You can grab Singing Through Fire on retailers like Amazon and Barnes Nobles, or just copy-paste the link in the description below.
00:38:17.402 --> 00:38:21.702
Some tragedies don't tie up in a redemptive bow on this side of heaven.
00:38:21.793 --> 00:38:25.443
But in Christ, redemption is always awaiting us in eternity.
00:38:25.503 --> 00:38:28.472
So let's keep singing through the fire together
00:38:28.655 --> 00:38:30.056
Yeah, exactly.
00:38:30.335 --> 00:38:31.536
I mean, do you cry out...
00:38:31.576 --> 00:38:33.505
Like, what does lament look like for you now?
00:38:33.516 --> 00:38:37.416
Like, especially- Mm-hmm during the strokes and the most severe suffering you're going through now.
00:38:37.416 --> 00:38:39.335
Like, do you just cry out to him?
00:38:39.335 --> 00:38:40.865
Do you pray the Psalms of lament?
00:38:41.626 --> 00:38:42.166
Yeah.
00:38:42.646 --> 00:38:44.206
I mean, I have literally been...
00:38:44.235 --> 00:38:50.835
I can't, I, I, I can't read because of, very well right now because of, um, my, the brain- Oh rehab still happening.
00:38:51.155 --> 00:38:54.956
And so because of that- Yeah I've been listening to, um, Psalms.
00:38:54.976 --> 00:38:56.885
I've just been, like, binging Psalms.
00:38:57.275 --> 00:39:03.275
And not even, like, with my brain fog or whatever, not even able to, like, fully understand all of the things that they're saying in that.
00:39:03.655 --> 00:39:04.556
But I just keep, like-
00:39:04.666 --> 00:39:05.036
Right
00:39:05.356 --> 00:39:11.996
crying out and, um, like, praying through Psalms or, like, crying through them sometimes.
00:39:12.396 --> 00:39:17.025
And I think that, I mean, we're talking about, like, looking back on how God has worked in the past.
00:39:17.235 --> 00:39:19.306
David did that over and over again.
00:39:19.585 --> 00:39:25.286
Like, he wrote- Yeah he wrote, like, here's, you know, some pretty, like, I-"This sucks.
00:39:25.306 --> 00:39:25.715
I wanna...
00:39:25.746 --> 00:39:26.846
Like, this is really hard.
00:39:26.846 --> 00:39:27.465
I wanna die.
00:39:27.485 --> 00:39:33.195
Why don't you do this?" And then- Yeah"But I will remember how you've worked," or,"You are this," but yeah.
00:39:33.465 --> 00:39:35.876
So definitely Psalms, but I I don't know.
00:39:35.876 --> 00:39:38.226
Sometimes lamenting for me has...
00:39:38.246 --> 00:39:43.255
is, like, ex- sharing with a friend, um, and, like, letting them carry it.
00:39:43.275 --> 00:39:49.445
And, and particularly'cause, like, with the chronic illness, there's, like, perpetual grief, and it's like there's ongoing loss.
00:39:49.465 --> 00:39:49.476
Oh.
00:39:50.045 --> 00:39:51.315
Sometimes you have to, like-
00:39:51.516 --> 00:39:51.916
Yeah
00:39:52.286 --> 00:39:57.335
reach out and make space for that and be like,"Hey, can I can you enter in with this?
00:39:57.335 --> 00:39:59.925
Can I share?"'Cause it's sometimes pretty invisible.
00:40:00.295 --> 00:40:01.126
I mean, you know that.
00:40:01.885 --> 00:40:02.746
Oh, yeah.
00:40:03.186 --> 00:40:04.045
And then also- But
00:40:04.045 --> 00:40:04.775
I w-
00:40:04.775 --> 00:40:05.076
Go ahead.
00:40:05.175 --> 00:40:05.385
Go.
00:40:05.925 --> 00:40:06.505
No, you go.
00:40:06.835 --> 00:40:14.005
Uh, just, um, I've honestly, I've never done this until the last year or so, but I've actually been writing my own laments.
00:40:14.646 --> 00:40:18.635
Wow and that has been really, really helpful for me.
00:40:18.956 --> 00:40:21.306
Chronic Joy- That's cool Ministries is actually...
00:40:21.346 --> 00:40:22.806
They're a, a...
00:40:23.445 --> 00:40:27.655
They, they have a lot of resources for pe- for caregivers and people with chronic illnesses.
00:40:28.005 --> 00:40:31.706
Um, and they have, like, a resource on how to write a lament if anyone wants to try.
00:40:31.726 --> 00:40:31.996
Hmm.
00:40:33.695 --> 00:40:37.246
Well, oh, that's a beautiful idea'cause it kinda personalizes it.
00:40:37.246 --> 00:40:40.295
Like, I think that's really beautiful.
00:40:40.806 --> 00:40:51.856
I'm, I'm wondering, like, where have you had to let go of dreams, you know, identity expectations, like, you know, uh, uh, and, and how has God met you in those losses?
00:40:51.896 --> 00:41:04.396
In other words, like, because you're still dealing with a lot of these chronic health issues as well as this new onslaught of suffering now, like, for me, the hardest part of this journey was not so much the physical pain and suffering, it was the loss of my dreams.
00:41:04.396 --> 00:41:04.655
Yeah.
00:41:04.655 --> 00:41:07.405
Like, I wanted to be married 40 years, and then you lose the spouse.
00:41:07.405 --> 00:41:09.905
Or I wanted to be a lawyer, and then I lost the career.
00:41:09.905 --> 00:41:20.646
It's like the surrender to His will, I think, is the hardest part, and I'm wondering what you have lost in terms of your dreams, and how has God met you in that?
00:41:20.976 --> 00:41:21.576
Yeah.
00:41:22.476 --> 00:41:33.536
Oh, I remember s- a moment in particular and I, I talked about lamenting, but sometimes lamenting has just been sitting there crying or sitting there not even able to cry, and that's okay too.
00:41:33.576 --> 00:41:33.675
Oh.
00:41:33.996 --> 00:41:40.840
But I remember- Yeah a particular moment when I was 15, sitting on the floor, um- In my room.
00:41:40.949 --> 00:41:56.710
And I had just, like, learned that, Or, or I had received i- information that, uh, now it doesn't, isn't quite applicable to my situation, but that my health conditions could be passed to a spouse or children.
00:41:57.079 --> 00:41:58.639
And I was like- Oh.
00:41:58.840 --> 00:41:59.219
I don't...
00:41:59.269 --> 00:42:04.269
Like, I was 15, but I was like crying and grieving of like,"I don't think I can get married.
00:42:04.280 --> 00:42:06.829
I don't think..."'Cause I didn't, I didn't know.
00:42:06.829 --> 00:42:07.710
I'm like,"Can I...
00:42:07.809 --> 00:42:09.610
Like, what do I do with that?
00:42:09.610 --> 00:42:13.000
Do I, do I get married and then- Oh not have children anyway?
00:42:13.039 --> 00:42:13.710
Do I not?
00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:28.130
I don't know." And I just, um- Yeah particularly had four dreams, one was I wanted to be a mom, and I wanted to be a wife and get married, and I wanted to serve overseas, and I wanted to write books.
00:42:28.409 --> 00:42:33.699
Um, those were like,"This is my life dream, what I wanna do." And I...
00:42:33.769 --> 00:42:35.170
But there was, how could I do that?
00:42:35.190 --> 00:42:52.460
I, at this point, like at 15, I reached this point where I was like,"Okay, well, how can I..." I mean, besides the, the inform- like, news I had received about, like, passing on my, my health stuff, I was like,"Well, how can I, you know, be a mom when I can't even take care of myself?" Like, I can't...
00:42:52.460 --> 00:42:55.019
How can I be taking care of someone else if I can't even...
00:42:55.389 --> 00:42:55.820
I need...
00:42:55.869 --> 00:42:59.960
You know, I'm a teenager and I need my mom to give me a shower'cause I can't do it by myself.
00:43:00.909 --> 00:43:01.059
Yep.
00:43:01.210 --> 00:43:14.869
And how can I, like, how can I get married when I, also when I, like, I can't, can't contribute, can't, like, don't even know how I would meet someone'cause I'm bedridden?
00:43:14.980 --> 00:43:17.340
Like, how do I do any of these things?
00:43:17.710 --> 00:43:17.730
Yeah.
00:43:17.739 --> 00:43:23.329
How can I go overseas when I can't get to the other side of the room without help?
00:43:23.710 --> 00:43:28.039
And how can I write books when I can't think in full sentences?
00:43:28.449 --> 00:43:31.710
And so those were, like, these dreams that, that died.
00:43:31.730 --> 00:43:44.380
Like, I, I literally, like, wrote out this blog post of like,"I give up." Like, these things, I genuinely were like,"These won't, aren't gonna happen for me." Like, I, I- Yeah just had to let go of them and grieve and grieve them.
00:43:45.572 --> 00:43:47.001
Which is, was ongoing.
00:43:47.001 --> 00:43:51.762
Like I said, per- chronic illness is perpetual grief and so it was like this- Yeah ongoing loss.
00:43:51.972 --> 00:44:00.632
'Cause, you know, you, you lose, okay, maybe you lose something, your abilities for today, for this year, for, or you, you have pain or you, you know, miss out on this thing.
00:44:00.942 --> 00:44:11.211
But chronic illness is also, like, I'm also, you know, like, as you meet these milestones, I'm missing out on school or maybe children or, you know, a husband or whatever.
00:44:11.632 --> 00:44:14.942
And in my case, God has actually resurrected some of those dreams.
00:44:15.161 --> 00:44:25.771
He has ther- uh, through different ways, and ways that I didn't expect, he's resurrected several of those dreams, and they have actually, like, come into happen for me.
00:44:26.061 --> 00:44:39.512
But yeah, at the time they didn't, and there's still the dream of a baby is still one that, um, is actually further out than ever, even though now I'm married and functional and all of those things, um- Yeah'cause of other health stuff going on.
00:44:40.251 --> 00:44:51.251
It's like this, there's this tension in the Christian life where it's like we know God is good and wants to bless us with good gifts, but we also know that it's not his will to give everyone all of the earthly blessings.
00:44:51.251 --> 00:44:53.322
Like, and that's so hard.
00:44:53.322 --> 00:45:08.012
It's like he calls us to surrender to his will, and sometimes, and we might, we probably won't know the answers until eternity for why one couple struggles with infertility, but the other one is blessed with five children and might not even want the fifth baby, and yet the Lord opens the womb yet again.
00:45:08.012 --> 00:45:16.612
It's like there's so many mysteries, and, you know, it's like I've come You know, and like, for me, it was like I really wanted to have children with Matt, too.
00:45:16.612 --> 00:45:18.121
I mean, we wanted the long marriage.
00:45:18.121 --> 00:45:26.202
I mean, but again, it's like God just has his purposes, and we're either gonna believe that we would have taken this route as well.
00:45:26.211 --> 00:45:29.891
I mean, it's almost hard for me to still say, like, it's still raw to some extent.
00:45:30.161 --> 00:45:30.211
Sure is.
00:45:30.211 --> 00:45:38.052
Like, I believe he has purposes, but I don't think, frankly- Mm-hmm I don't know if I can say I would choose this route, because I do miss Matt, you know?
00:45:38.052 --> 00:45:38.581
I do.
00:45:39.001 --> 00:45:39.032
Right.
00:45:39.032 --> 00:45:40.802
So it's, it's so hard.
00:45:40.811 --> 00:45:47.650
Like- And so grieving, a- and chronic illness is also this unique cross, as you've mentioned several times.
00:45:47.650 --> 00:45:56.099
It's like we're in a per- well, we shouldn't remain in perpetual grief, but it's the temptation is there because the pain is constant.
00:45:56.309 --> 00:46:00.280
And yet God, what I've learned recently is that God calls us out of grief.
00:46:00.429 --> 00:46:02.510
He wants us to always- Mm-hmm hope.
00:46:02.519 --> 00:46:07.940
Like, if grief is gonna stay permanently, at least for me, it kind of becomes idolatrous, I think.
00:46:07.940 --> 00:46:17.269
I think James 1, is it James 1:2 says,"Count it all joy." And like I'm wondering how you view that verse,'cause it's like when I first read that, I was like,"Count it all joy?
00:46:17.280 --> 00:46:19.539
Like, I just lost all my dreams," you know?
00:46:19.550 --> 00:46:24.289
Like- Right there's my husband in heaven, like my next chance is to see him in heaven, you know?
00:46:24.659 --> 00:46:26.880
Like, how do you interpret that verse?
00:46:27.079 --> 00:46:28.719
W- I mean, God's calling is so high.
00:46:28.739 --> 00:46:34.070
He's actually asking us not to rejoice for all things, but in all things, right?
00:46:34.070 --> 00:46:35.750
That's 1 Thessalonians 5:16.
00:46:35.750 --> 00:46:37.869
But that in and of itself is still hard.
00:46:38.139 --> 00:46:42.280
Like, you're not Are you rejoicing right now in, and I hope you are.
00:46:42.280 --> 00:46:43.489
I mean, you're so spiritually mature.
00:46:43.489 --> 00:46:46.429
But like I, I'm not trying to You know what I'm saying.
00:46:47.929 --> 00:46:48.739
I, yeah.
00:46:48.739 --> 00:46:49.659
No, for sure.
00:46:50.929 --> 00:46:54.012
I mean-, i, yes and no.
00:46:54.021 --> 00:47:01.581
Like, yes, again, it's that yes, there's joy, and there's moments of joy, and there's also not, and there's moments of grief.
00:47:01.981 --> 00:47:09.782
And I think that, like, something that I have come to believe is that, like, lament, lament is a form of trust.
00:47:09.791 --> 00:47:14.572
Lament is a form of worship as well,'cause it's like it's coming to God and...
00:47:14.731 --> 00:47:16.291
Or, or, or may- I mean, there's different...
00:47:16.442 --> 00:47:21.501
Like, what does grief look like potentially is something to think about, and like where are our hearts in it?
00:47:21.782 --> 00:47:26.311
Like, are we- Yeah are we, are we trapped in despair?
00:47:26.342 --> 00:47:35.922
Are we, you know, And there, there's times for like, like I'm thinking of Hannah weeping at the temple and praying so much that, like, the, the, oh, was it...
00:47:36.211 --> 00:47:36.751
Who was it?
00:47:38.001 --> 00:47:40.612
Whatever prophet or whatever, like priest or whatever-
00:47:40.641 --> 00:47:40.931
Yeah
00:47:40.942 --> 00:47:42.762
thought that she was drunk.
00:47:42.771 --> 00:47:46.231
Like,'cause she was like just ba- pouring out her soul to the Lord.
00:47:46.242 --> 00:47:46.262
Yeah.
00:47:46.831 --> 00:47:49.461
And like there's a space for that, but then there's also...
00:47:49.461 --> 00:47:55.371
I, I love how my husband and I were just reading The Silver Chair by C.S.
00:47:55.371 --> 00:47:55.831
Lewis.
00:47:55.842 --> 00:47:55.851
Mm.
00:47:56.291 --> 00:48:15.751
And in that, the cha- one of the characters, you know, s- something happens, and she is like, she's crying, and Lewis writes, he's like,"Crying is all right," and it, like,"for a time, but eventually you have to get up and decide what to do." And so I feel like there's like- Yeah it's that both and.
00:48:15.751 --> 00:48:20.692
And so, yeah, the, the joy right now looks like- Trying to seek His presence.
00:48:20.711 --> 00:48:26.322
And as I've shared, I haven't felt it as much lately in the, the last- Yeah couple of months of what I'm going through.
00:48:26.722 --> 00:48:28.722
Um, but I think that that's where joy is.
00:48:28.722 --> 00:48:31.711
Joy's not like cheerfulness.
00:48:31.711 --> 00:48:33.731
I mean, there's Cheerfulness is good.
00:48:33.731 --> 00:48:37.061
The cheerf- you know,"A cheerful heart is good medicine," is what Proverbs says.
00:48:37.072 --> 00:48:49.992
But like, joy is, is like the peace and the contentment in His presence, at least in, in my ex- on experience that is still maturing and still figuring it out.
00:48:50.382 --> 00:48:58.621
But that, that it can be like wh- is our grief, is our lament like brought to God maybe in like'Cause it can be worship.
00:48:58.641 --> 00:49:05.731
Because I think that it's, it's a f- it's trusting Him, and it's, it's like this isn't y- it's not supposed to be this way.
00:49:05.731 --> 00:49:07.942
Like, this isn't the way you've designed it to be.
00:49:08.322 --> 00:49:14.981
Um, and so like- Yeah bringing it to Him and trusting Him that He wants something different or has something different.
00:49:15.742 --> 00:49:15.942
Am I making sense?
00:49:15.942 --> 00:49:16.181
Yeah,
00:49:16.291 --> 00:49:28.592
it's like I, yeah, I mean, I've, I agree with all that, and I've come to the point when I am tempted to think,"No, I wouldn't have chosen this path,"'cause I do genuinely believe that when we get to eternity- Mm-hmm you know how Paul says then we will know fully.
00:49:28.782 --> 00:49:42.882
I mean, I don't know if he's gonna reveal all his secrets, you know, and But I do think he will graciously give us knowledge as to some things about why that had to happen and this, because I think that will be very healing, and I think that's what a good God would do.
00:49:42.911 --> 00:49:45.561
I mean, it's not like I'm not imposing my view of a good God on Him.
00:49:45.561 --> 00:49:59.771
I mean, there are these verses, you know, where Paul says,"Then we shall know fully." And so what I'm getting at is that comforts me, and that reminds me, okay- Right when the enemy is lying to you that God doesn't know what's best, you know, change the channel.
00:50:00.112 --> 00:50:01.862
Remember the biblical truth.
00:50:01.882 --> 00:50:02.802
Like, He is good.
00:50:02.802 --> 00:50:03.492
He is loving.
00:50:03.501 --> 00:50:03.521
Mm-hmm.
00:50:03.532 --> 00:50:06.411
Everything He does is, is righteous and, and faithful.
00:50:06.411 --> 00:50:18.731
And if I don't understand why my spouse had to die yet, if I don't understand why my friend Sarah has to go through all these strokes, if I don't understa- You are doing something, full stop, and I, You are wiser than I am.
00:50:18.731 --> 00:50:21.942
I think pride is really the root of the issue, at least for me, you know?
00:50:21.942 --> 00:50:24.351
It's like we think we know better.
00:50:25.112 --> 00:50:25.572
Right.
00:50:25.672 --> 00:50:25.692
Yeah.
00:50:25.922 --> 00:50:32.842
I mean, I feel like This is a tangent, but I feel like that might be a- It's, pride is a, is a struggle for everyone.
00:50:32.851 --> 00:50:44.461
But I feel like maybe when you've endured some suffering, it can be easy to Pride can be easy to fall into when you're, like, comparing yourself to other people or, like- Yeah you know, that kind of thing.
00:50:44.762 --> 00:50:45.822
But no, I relate to that.
00:50:45.822 --> 00:50:54.501
I think that I, I, as I was asking that, like,"God," like I have to believe that I, if I was as good as God and knew what He did, I would choose the same things.
00:50:54.811 --> 00:51:07.382
But when I was praying with that with God, I was like,"God, I, I cast myself on you." Like, if you're asking me, like He's not, but like if He was asking me what I wanted to do right now, I'd be like,"I would like to- No.
00:51:08.092 --> 00:51:08.891
I Yeah.
00:51:08.902 --> 00:51:16.952
I'm like,"I choose something different." So I'm actually, I want to just cast myself on His love and His mercy and trust that He's better than I am.
00:51:17.552 --> 00:51:18.822
And can I just say this too?
00:51:18.822 --> 00:51:20.242
'Cause it just encouraged my heart.
00:51:20.282 --> 00:51:22.081
Maybe the Holy Spirit's, like, kind of prompting me.
00:51:22.081 --> 00:51:30.961
Like, yesterday, God helped me a lot,'cause I was kinda, you know, down again, and, and the Lord gave me this idea of this is not the end of your story, and Matt's story.
00:51:30.992 --> 00:51:34.851
So in other words, we forget, we always throw that around when it comes to, like, Earth.
00:51:34.952 --> 00:51:38.811
Like, yeah, whenever, you know, we all, the story isn't over even on Earth.
00:51:38.831 --> 00:51:40.112
God will resurrect things.
00:51:40.112 --> 00:51:43.351
We've got 50 more years to live, if that's His will, you know, whatever.
00:51:43.731 --> 00:51:46.422
But even at death, the story is not over.
00:51:46.422 --> 00:51:53.992
And the reason I'm saying this is maybe when God says,"I know what's best, and I see more than you guys do," it's about eternity.
00:51:53.992 --> 00:51:59.742
Like, your life story is gonna go on, and only He knows where He's gonna take you for all eternity.
00:52:00.112 --> 00:52:01.961
We h- we're gonna have roles in heaven.
00:52:01.961 --> 00:52:03.431
We're gonna have ministries in heaven.
00:52:03.431 --> 00:52:05.672
Like, we just, we can't see these things.
00:52:06.061 --> 00:52:11.041
And I, look, I don't know why, you know, my spouse has to die here for me to be ready for my role in heaven.
00:52:11.041 --> 00:52:13.561
Like, I don't know how that mysteriously works.
00:52:13.581 --> 00:52:15.382
I'm not saying this, it's a one-to-one.
00:52:15.391 --> 00:52:25.771
But that's part of how God has comforted me on, like, the reason you guys can't understand is you're looking from a temporal perspective, but I'm operating- Mm-hmm from an eternal perspective, right?
00:52:25.771 --> 00:52:26.862
Yeah.
00:52:26.862 --> 00:52:27.251
Yeah.
00:52:27.291 --> 00:52:30.601
It's so much more complex than we, than we know.
00:52:30.672 --> 00:52:42.411
I mean, there's just so much that we don't understand, even about our, our earthly life and home, but, like, let alone the other, you know, s- uh, spiritual realms.
00:52:42.882 --> 00:52:43.092
Yeah.
00:52:43.501 --> 00:52:43.822
Yeah.
00:52:44.302 --> 00:52:54.362
And you know, 2 Corinthians 4:16 is one of my favorites, which says,"We don't lose heart, though out- outwardly we're wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day." What do you think is that renewal?
00:52:54.382 --> 00:52:57.351
Is it just the transforming into the Christ image?
00:52:57.371 --> 00:53:00.851
It's like the Romans 8:29, or is there something more happening there?
00:53:02.601 --> 00:53:03.027
Yeah.
00:53:03.027 --> 00:53:05.159
I mean, that's a great
00:53:05.159 --> 00:53:05.585
question.
00:53:05.585 --> 00:53:06.012
Right?
00:53:06.012 --> 00:53:06.431
Yeah.
00:53:06.431 --> 00:53:07.402
I mean,
00:53:07.402 --> 00:53:08.391
I think, I- That's a great question.
00:53:08.391 --> 00:53:11.922
Are we being made more into, like, eternal beings?
00:53:12.181 --> 00:53:16.702
Are we, like, being renewed- I think it's like- our energy, our strength, our...
00:53:16.702 --> 00:53:17.032
I don't know.
00:53:17.791 --> 00:53:21.942
I think it's, like, renewing our spirit man or you know- Yeah and woman, so to speak.
00:53:21.952 --> 00:53:23.862
Again, it's just like the conforming.
00:53:23.871 --> 00:53:26.641
I think that's what Paul is getting at, you know?
00:53:27.121 --> 00:53:27.442
It's...
00:53:27.501 --> 00:53:37.472
Well, actually, you might be onto something with the eternal being point, because the verse right after that says,"Our light and momentary troubles are creating for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all." So I don't know.
00:53:37.501 --> 00:53:38.621
It's mysterious.
00:53:38.621 --> 00:53:39.291
Like, it's...
00:53:39.521 --> 00:53:42.592
But the sufferings themselves are achieving it.
00:53:42.751 --> 00:53:46.492
Like, and that gives- Mm-hmm us comfort'cause it's like, all right, none of this will be wasted.
00:53:46.981 --> 00:53:47.621
Mm-hmm.
00:53:47.621 --> 00:53:47.992
I want...
00:53:48.331 --> 00:53:51.262
And, and, and actually, like, doesn't that comfort you?
00:53:51.262 --> 00:53:53.771
Because it's like he flips the script, you know?
00:53:53.771 --> 00:54:00.322
It's like Romans 8:17 says,"If we share in his sufferings, we will share in his glory." Like, doesn't that just comfort you?
00:54:00.952 --> 00:54:01.532
Yes.
00:54:02.061 --> 00:54:03.461
Yes, exactly.
00:54:05.447 --> 00:54:12.898
I, I wanna ask also, like, what's your favorite Bible verse that's kind of an SOS lifeline, you know, that, that you cling to, you know?
00:54:12.898 --> 00:54:18.458
Or, or, you know, even when you were in the hospital recently, like w- were there any certain scriptures that really spoke to you?
00:54:20.038 --> 00:54:35.978
I mean, like, my overarching life verse, which developed during the, um, the, the high school years of, um, mold and Lyme, is 2 Corinthians 12:9, which is,"But he said to me,'My grace is sufficient for you for my power is made perfect in weakness.
00:54:35.978 --> 00:54:40.487
Therefore, I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses.'" I might have butchered that a little bit.
00:54:40.487 --> 00:54:41.478
But what that...
00:54:41.538 --> 00:54:44.447
How that came about for me was I, I put it on my...
00:54:44.728 --> 00:54:58.838
W-when part of, like, what was going on was I was like, I would often have these, like, just feel really depressed or, or have these, like, panic attacks or things like that during, during the high school years of everything, my body shutting down, including my brain.
00:54:59.307 --> 00:55:01.838
And so I- Yeah would go...
00:55:02.117 --> 00:55:12.827
When, um, one of, like, the things that I found myself doing when I was, like, in these really dark moments was, like, I would hide in the closet'cause, I don't know, I felt safe.
00:55:12.838 --> 00:55:12.967
Yeah.
00:55:13.007 --> 00:55:13.307
I don't know.
00:55:13.818 --> 00:55:22.648
But what I did- Yeah was I wrote, printed out that verse and, like, taped it to the wall in the closet so that when I found myself going in there, that was there.
00:55:22.907 --> 00:55:35.467
And I ac- Oh I memorized that because of just have, like, not because I tried to memorize it, but because I was just clinging to it, reading it over and over again so much during those dark times because his, um...
00:55:35.967 --> 00:55:38.378
I, I was like,"I can't get through this.
00:55:38.447 --> 00:55:39.108
I can't.
00:55:39.137 --> 00:55:42.458
There's n- like, I of my own, I can't survive this.
00:55:42.797 --> 00:55:47.378
But His, His grace is sufficient and His power is made perfect.
00:55:47.697 --> 00:55:48.617
And if this can...
00:55:48.668 --> 00:55:50.268
like, that's how I'm gonna get through it."
00:55:51.478 --> 00:55:55.788
What do you think it means that His power is made perfect in our weakness?
00:55:55.838 --> 00:55:57.358
Like, what does that mean?
00:55:57.478 --> 00:56:00.288
'Cause I have my own gloss, but I'm curious what you think it means.
00:56:00.297 --> 00:56:00.318
Yeah.
00:56:00.648 --> 00:56:05.123
Like, why do we need to be weak for His power to be- made perfect.
00:56:05.123 --> 00:56:09.344
It's such a weird way of saying, I mean, I'm not trying to be blasphemous, you know, against the word of God.
00:56:09.344 --> 00:56:10.463
Like, what is he getting at?
00:56:10.673 --> 00:56:12.824
It's confusing for our human minds.
00:56:12.833 --> 00:56:21.623
I, I still don't, I don't know that I would fully know the answer to that, but something that I have thought about is that I wonder if we have to get out of our own way.
00:56:22.753 --> 00:56:32.463
Like, I wonder if- Oh when we have our own strength and our own, like, like, ability to do whatever we think we're supposed to be doing, then we, we think that we can do it.
00:56:32.713 --> 00:56:49.764
But when we know that we can't do it, which suffering often brings out the m- the more, makes it more obvious what was already true, is that we can't do it- Yeah all on our own then I feel like there's, there's room for God, like r- we, there's room in our hearts and our lives or whatever for God to work, for God to enter in.
00:56:49.773 --> 00:56:56.943
And then it's also obvious to everyone around us that it wasn't us that made things happen but God.
00:56:56.943 --> 00:57:12.614
I think one of the other verses I hold onto a lot is, uh, in Psalm 46 where it's,"But be still and know that I am God." And I've been looking recently into the be still part, and some of the other ways that that word can be translated is, like, be weak or be frail, and I'm like-
00:57:12.943 --> 00:57:13.193
Oh
00:57:13.244 --> 00:57:16.523
And know that I am God," and I kind of wonder if those go hand-in-hand.
00:57:16.534 --> 00:57:26.164
Like, I think that to know that He is God, we have to know that we are not, and- Wow suffering weakness, sickness makes that more obvious.
00:57:27.233 --> 00:57:27.934
Right.
00:57:28.083 --> 00:57:28.693
Right.
00:57:28.963 --> 00:57:30.514
Those are really profound insights.
00:57:30.514 --> 00:57:33.844
I mean, the way I've glossed it is, like, He shows His power...
00:57:33.963 --> 00:57:34.724
I mean, you already answered it.
00:57:34.784 --> 00:57:44.514
It's like He, His power is made perfect because it's displayed so beautifully when we are weak- Yes such that everything we accomplish, it's obvious that it was His power.
00:57:44.934 --> 00:57:45.384
Exactly.
00:57:45.733 --> 00:57:49.503
And, and actually, like, that leads to Isaiah 40, what is it?
00:57:49.523 --> 00:57:54.864
29, which says,"He gives strength to the weary and increases the power of the weak." Have you found that to be true?
00:57:54.864 --> 00:58:06.884
Like, you're in the hospital and you're in so much pain, and then all of a sudden you feel like,"Whoa, I have strength to handle it." Like, not like some miraculous- Right you know, potion or something, but have you felt Him, like, give you His power?
00:58:06.983 --> 00:58:08.543
I mean, miraculously even?
00:58:09.994 --> 00:58:10.554
Yeah.
00:58:10.554 --> 00:58:20.664
I mean, I was joking with my husband about this podcast interview because I was like- Over the years, every time a podcast interview comes up, I'm doing poorly.
00:58:20.884 --> 00:58:27.603
I'm like, I'm, I'm like, for some reason I get sick the night before, or I have strokes, or I, you know, whatever.
00:58:28.664 --> 00:58:29.023
And it's like-
00:58:29.043 --> 00:58:29.344
Yeah
00:58:29.353 --> 00:58:30.054
what is it?
00:58:30.103 --> 00:58:33.704
And I was like, I feel like in some ways it's...
00:58:33.713 --> 00:58:47.983
A- at the same time, looking back at those, there's some of them where I'm like, God brought things to mind that I, I didn't know, or God worked in, in, in that situation, or the other person said something that I, I need to hear or other people needed to hear.
00:58:48.364 --> 00:58:52.634
And so even like with- Oh this situation where I'm like, I was praying before this.
00:58:52.634 --> 00:58:54.384
Like, I don't know what to say.
00:58:54.634 --> 00:58:55.583
I, I, it's the...
00:58:55.583 --> 00:59:01.282
And you know, I, I don't know what I'm, um I, I, I know I can't think well right now.
00:59:01.521 --> 00:59:04.291
And so getting- Yeah to, like, have the...
00:59:04.291 --> 00:59:06.672
It's, it's just funny the timings that God brings that.
00:59:06.702 --> 00:59:10.181
And I've seen that with the Diamonds Conference as well, or even with, like, writing books.
00:59:10.501 --> 00:59:14.891
Like, this book, uh, He's Making Diamonds, I wrote during the high school years.
00:59:15.012 --> 00:59:24.782
I wrote when I was like, at my lowest physically, and I've written, like, seven or eight books since then, and that one is different.
00:59:24.942 --> 00:59:26.722
Because that one, I...
00:59:26.831 --> 00:59:31.242
Like, I didn't have it together, and I didn't have it, and so I saw God work in that.
00:59:31.541 --> 00:59:37.532
And I've gone back and read it years later, and I'm like,"I didn't understand." Like, I've gone, like,"Wow, that's encouraging.
00:59:37.601 --> 00:59:48.211
There's no way I intended to say that at the time." I was like, God had His, in His grace like, brought things to mind or brought other people to, like, help influence, I think, and shape that book.
00:59:48.661 --> 00:59:49.601
And so I've just gotten to...
00:59:49.601 --> 01:00:00.032
I feel like there's different ways, um, at, at least in the space of creating, but also just in the way of, like, enduring suffering, where I reach the end of my rope, and then there's, there's a wind that I...
01:00:00.072 --> 01:00:01.152
that's not coming from me.
01:00:01.181 --> 01:00:04.202
Like, there's a second, third, four, whatever, I don't know, that I just...
01:00:04.211 --> 01:00:05.842
I couldn't have done that on my own.
01:00:06.552 --> 01:00:08.322
Man, I, I agree with that completely.
01:00:08.322 --> 01:00:12.891
Like, so much of the wisdom, even in my own memoir, was, like, from the Lord.
01:00:12.911 --> 01:00:14.012
Like, none of it could have been...
01:00:14.021 --> 01:00:20.802
I mean, all wisdom is always from the Lord, but it's like none of it could have been from my own, you know, oh, Laura's a lawyer and knows how to interpret theology.
01:00:20.802 --> 01:00:22.041
It's like, shut up, you know?
01:00:22.052 --> 01:00:30.942
It's like, it's like the only reason I grew at all in my faith is because the Lord spoke into these places and questions about suffering, just kinda like the way you're saying.
01:00:30.952 --> 01:00:38.402
Like, it's amazing how, I don't know, somehow when we are broken, we become fresh bread for others.
01:00:38.581 --> 01:00:39.672
Again, it's what Paul said.
01:00:39.681 --> 01:00:41.891
If we are afflicted, it is for your comfort.
01:00:41.902 --> 01:00:41.942
Amen.
01:00:41.952 --> 01:00:46.351
So maybe both of us today are more effective because we're in pain.
01:00:46.362 --> 01:00:53.882
Like, because I was sharply grieving yesterday, and you are, you know, going through this, you know, this new batch of suffering.
01:00:54.592 --> 01:00:57.722
I wanna end just on this two really quick questions.
01:00:57.722 --> 01:00:58.092
So what do you...
01:00:58.271 --> 01:01:03.882
What is the hardest thing to explain to other Christians about living with chronic illness, the part that no one sees?
01:01:05.041 --> 01:01:05.512
Yeah.
01:01:05.552 --> 01:01:06.242
I think...
01:01:06.291 --> 01:01:10.282
I was, I was thinking about this, and I think that it is the...
01:01:11.242 --> 01:01:12.952
all the little things adding up.
01:01:14.186 --> 01:01:16.326
And like there's the...
01:01:17.226 --> 01:01:26.786
Okay, I can say in October, you know, messaged my support, you know, network or whatever of like,"This just happened.
01:01:26.815 --> 01:01:27.525
Please pray." Right.
01:01:27.896 --> 01:01:33.896
And that week, that week, that month, people showed up, and they brought us meals, and they prayed for us.
01:01:33.916 --> 01:01:38.766
And, and yet today, or, or last week was like the darkest period.
01:01:38.786 --> 01:01:43.896
It was like, okay, well, in the moment I was just in the, in the whatever, but, but now it's been three...
01:01:44.295 --> 01:01:53.905
At least in this case, but with the- Yeah other conditions, it was similar, where it was like, okay, now it's, whatever, it's months or years into the process, and it's every...
01:01:54.365 --> 01:02:07.476
The, the little things of like, okay, well, every action hurts, or every decision is very complicated because I'm weighing, okay, well, I, I, I need to do this, and I need to do that, and I only have the energy for one.
01:02:07.795 --> 01:02:08.226
Okay.
01:02:08.465 --> 01:02:09.326
What's more important?
01:02:09.416 --> 01:02:11.275
I, I literally asked my husband this a couple weeks ago.
01:02:11.275 --> 01:02:15.036
What's more important, going to church or going to the family wedding?
01:02:15.786 --> 01:02:16.206
I don't know.
01:02:16.206 --> 01:02:16.376
Right.
01:02:16.376 --> 01:02:24.126
Or what's more- Right important, um, having quiet time with God or, you know, like, whatever it is.
01:02:24.135 --> 01:02:24.155
Yeah.
01:02:24.155 --> 01:02:29.666
But it's just like, uh, or, or like being able to you know, make food today, you know?
01:02:29.936 --> 01:02:32.146
Like, both of those things- Oh are very important.
01:02:32.476 --> 01:02:44.465
And so there's just these- Yeah like all these little things that throughout the day, throughout that then the m- last months and years is like builds up to this exhaustion, and then it's also often unseen.
01:02:44.695 --> 01:02:45.436
And so it...
01:02:45.505 --> 01:03:00.315
I think that that can be some of the mo- one of the things that's, that's hard for other people, that's invisible to other people, is like how all these- Yeah little moments where, okay, one, one moment in today, but there were, you know, there were 20 of these today, or there were, you know, whatever.
01:03:00.565 --> 01:03:04.865
And then that's built up, and now it's overwhelming, and it's tiring and exhausting.
01:03:04.876 --> 01:03:05.255
Yeah.
01:03:05.945 --> 01:03:06.246
Yeah.
01:03:06.246 --> 01:03:16.195
It's like because chronic illness is invisible too, and people see you, you know, walking around, and it's like they think you're- Right totally fine, and it's like, ah, I'm like in agony over here.
01:03:16.195 --> 01:03:20.036
I mean, not to dramatize, but it's like, yeah, it's really that choice.
01:03:20.036 --> 01:03:25.085
We're constantly having to weigh, if I brush my teeth, I'm gonna have to lay down again for half an hour.
01:03:25.085 --> 01:03:31.356
Like, these are the calculations we make, and it's just, it, it's- Right it changes your whole life, and yet the Lord sustains, right?
01:03:31.356 --> 01:03:33.746
It's like, I mean, that's the whole point of this podcast.
01:03:33.775 --> 01:03:40.965
It's like, this is why we can s- we can sing through the fire even though our lives are dramatically different now.
01:03:41.195 --> 01:03:46.536
You know, you and I didn't have chronic illness, and then our lives get turned upside down, and yet here we are still praising the Lord.
01:03:46.536 --> 01:03:47.896
Like, I don't know.
01:03:47.956 --> 01:03:49.065
I, I know I'm babbling.
01:03:49.996 --> 01:03:51.396
But I- No I wanna end it...
01:03:51.865 --> 01:03:58.576
Yeah, I wanna end it on what's one thing you do today, like, to s- like- Mm-hmm how are you singing through your fire right now?
01:03:58.585 --> 01:04:04.755
Like, like, how are you and your husband clinging for joy even though you've been slammed with this fresh new wave of suffering?
01:04:05.215 --> 01:04:09.666
Do you just- Yeah you know, set your face like a flint, you know, it says in the Psalms, and just trust the Lord?
01:04:09.666 --> 01:04:10.335
Or are you...
01:04:10.686 --> 01:04:11.235
I know it sound...
01:04:11.416 --> 01:04:12.496
You know what I'm saying?
01:04:13.346 --> 01:04:14.115
Absolutely.
01:04:14.425 --> 01:04:15.945
Okay, well, three things came to mind.
01:04:16.865 --> 01:04:21.096
One- Okay, yeah briefly, I, uh, I mean, I mentioned, like, listening to Psalms.
01:04:21.115 --> 01:04:23.135
Specifically, I've been using the app Dwell.
01:04:23.576 --> 01:04:32.146
And that has been- Oh just, like, getting to listen,'cause again, I can't really read, and I feel like I can't even totally understand all the time, like, the Bible or whatever.
01:04:32.146 --> 01:04:41.606
But, like, listening to that- Yeah has been, um, has helped me when I'm, like, stuck in my own head and like, okay- Right listening to songs.
01:04:42.295 --> 01:04:46.036
Ah, there, there's all the emotion that I'm feeling, but there's also the God is good.
01:04:46.135 --> 01:05:00.436
There's also something that I was doing before the TIAs that now that I can't write very well, um, I haven't been doing as much, but I would just, like, write down in the morning, would be journaling as part of, like, my time with God, and I'd write down, like, things I'm thankful for.
01:05:00.436 --> 01:05:06.755
And I know that that's really cliche, but it has been helpful, even if it was like,"Thank you for the conversation with this person.
01:05:06.766 --> 01:05:09.856
Thank you for," you know- Yeah"ice cream.
01:05:09.856 --> 01:05:11.356
Thank you for whatever." Oh,
01:05:11.565 --> 01:05:12.016
yeah.
01:05:12.295 --> 01:05:12.766
Sign me
01:05:12.815 --> 01:05:12.856
up.
01:05:15.335 --> 01:05:17.606
On that note doing something fun.
01:05:17.905 --> 01:05:21.065
Like, God has given us pleasures.
01:05:21.085 --> 01:05:25.876
God, we have- He has entrusted us with suffering, but He- there's also- Right.
01:05:25.876 --> 01:05:34.195
things that are, like, happy or, like, or that are, like, delightful to do, and I think sometimes it can be easy to get caught up in the big things.
01:05:34.206 --> 01:05:34.226
Yeah.
01:05:34.626 --> 01:05:40.556
And it doesn't seem spiritual, but, like, eating the ice cream, or I have the houseplant here, which you can't really see.
01:05:40.806 --> 01:05:44.065
But there's a houseplant here that makes me so happy right now.
01:05:44.076 --> 01:05:44.425
It's like-
01:05:44.896 --> 01:05:44.905
Aw
01:05:44.925 --> 01:05:48.045
I see it and I'm like, yeah, it makes me smile.
01:05:48.936 --> 01:06:08.235
And these are things that He's created with- He's given His, His people, He's given His creation, He's given us creativity, and all of these things can be joyful and can be things that help us, like, can be to facilitate that delighting in Him, delighting in His presence, delighting in the things He made.
01:06:09.525 --> 01:06:10.206
I love that.
01:06:10.226 --> 01:06:14.396
It's like finding these sprinkles of joy, and sometimes even waterfalls of joy.
01:06:14.476 --> 01:06:17.856
You know, God gives us these little moments of joy that really encourage us.
01:06:17.865 --> 01:06:20.775
So Sarah, thank you so much for joining us today.
01:06:20.786 --> 01:06:22.425
It has been a pleasure to have you.
01:06:22.436 --> 01:06:27.626
Thanks for being so authentic and honest, even about your struggles right now, to feel God's presence.
01:06:27.626 --> 01:06:28.775
That is so authentic.
01:06:28.775 --> 01:06:29.715
We all go through it.
01:06:29.726 --> 01:06:31.556
We all have the same doubts and questions.
01:06:32.096 --> 01:06:34.126
You know, thank you for joining us today.
01:06:34.949 --> 01:06:37.150
It has been wonderful to be here.
01:06:37.159 --> 01:06:38.309
Thank you for having me.
01:06:38.840 --> 01:06:39.570
Of course.
01:06:39.780 --> 01:06:48.010
And for everyone listening, until next time remember, we may not understand what God is doing on this side of eternity, but we're still here, we're still trusting, and we're still singing.
01:06:48.039 --> 01:06:49.719
Until next time, God bless you.
01:06:49.873 --> 01:06:54.373
Be sure to hit subscribe because I upload content every week to help other sufferers.
01:06:54.934 --> 01:06:56.344
To God be the glory.