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From the arena to the front
office, this is Scoreboard.
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00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:07,440
I'm Chris Titley, and each
episode brings you stories from
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00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:11,200
the game of sport, where
mindset, money and meaning shape
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what comes next.
Athletes, coaches, owners and
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business leaders unpack the
moments that matter because the
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scoreboard isn't just about
winning.
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It's about life beyond the game.
Now let's get to this week's
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episode.
Hi, it's Chris Titley here.
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And on today's episode of School
Board the Podcast, I'm joined by
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Liam Wright in person here in
Brizzy.
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What a beautiful day, Liam.
Welcome.
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Thanks for having.
Me mate, what have you been up
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to this morning?
I've been to Ballymore, just
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soaking up the sunshine, getting
a bit of weight soon and just a
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bit of rehab stuff.
Yeah, mate, we're sitting here
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on the, what was it the 8th of
May already 2025?
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How's your 2025 been?
Rugby wise has been a bit
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rubbish.
The rest of it's been good.
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We've enjoyed the the rest of
the year and everything but
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yeah, obviously injuries in in
sports arc and.
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Yeah.
On the back of a few now so just
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trying to get ourselves back
ready and playing footy again.
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Yeah, mate, the the shoulder is,
it's been niggling for a while.
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Yeah, yeah, right.
Shoulder.
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So the same sort of same injury
that we picked up in that first
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Test against Wales last year and
but a couple games in at the
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start of the year and then it
sort of seems to have Recon and
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RE went.
So still in the process of
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trying to really get to the
bottom bottom of it.
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Yeah, mate.
So one of the the traits that
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I've spoken to a number of
athletes is resilience.
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Obviously going through a period
of now a a down period.
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How are you on the resilience
front?
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Yeah, I think, I think if I
didn't have resilience, I think
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it's, it's probably one of my
biggest assets.
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I think with the way the last
probably four or five years have
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gone for me injury wise and
rugby wise probably wouldn't
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still be here without it.
It's it's carried me through and
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probably one of those ones those
muscles that you don't want to
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have to flex.
But it's, it's something that I
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think will, I've, I've got to
believe that it will set me in
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good stead for the rest of my
life and, and just keep keeping
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on.
Just keep keeping on.
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Now let's talk about Liam Wright
rugby.
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Where did the interest in rugby
come from?
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Well, born in South Africa, my
parents are both South African,
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they're rugby nutters as well.
So I guess, you know, I remember
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my dad would wake me up on
Sunday morning at 45 AM when we
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couldn't sleep and I'd watch all
the games that we recorded the
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night before, watch all the
Super Rugby.
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Even.
My mum's really into it.
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She'll give a very thorough
analysis of games and I could
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just grow up loving it, watching
it.
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You know, when I, when I first
started playing, I was probably
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more what Mum said.
My first game, she caught me
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doing hand stands on the field
and cartwheels on the field.
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So it wasn't so much that, but
it was just the, yeah, I just,
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it's always been a part of my
family and growing up and taking
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that through.
And watching it on the TV in
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South Africa, what was the team
that you followed and what was
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the format of the competition
then?
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Was the the twelves or the 10s?
Super 10, Super 12, Super 15 and
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14.
Super 14, probably when I first
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started taking most of an
interest, it was the the sharks,
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Durban Sharks and tall sharks
that dad and I followed back
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then and, and, and the
Springboks.
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And obviously now it's the Reds
and the Wallabies.
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So it's changed a bit.
But yeah, just, you know, I
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remember going to Shark Park a
few times when I was younger and
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watching the guys play and I
remember, you know, the Sharks
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and the Bulls, the semi finals
and the finals there 2007
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through 2009.
It was a pretty good period
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there of the Sharks doing really
well and, and being competitive
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and just, I guess it just
sparked an interest, a common
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bond between my dad and I and my
mom and I.
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And then as you sort of go older
and get to understand the game a
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bit more, I've just really come
to love it.
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Who Who are the players in the
Sharks in mate?
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Could he name the zero the 1 to
15 then?
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Probably couldn't name the 1:15.
You know, I remember obviously
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the beast coming through.
Stephen de Blanche was the full
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back.
My dad always used to tell me
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that he was so fit that he had
to above and beyond all the team
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fitness, he'd have to go and run
extra stairs to get his heart
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rate up and get as fit as he
could.
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Urban Myth.
Yeah, there'll probably be
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people in our team that'll say
the same thing and we're like,
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no, it didn't happen.
But yeah, I just grew up
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watching a lot of those guys.
You know, Sculpt Burger didn't
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didn't play for the Sharks, but
tough flanker that sort of
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probably tried to model a bit of
my game across and just enjoyed
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watching a lot of footy and they
were the guys to watch when
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you're a young kid in South
Africa growing up.
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Yeah, and then the positioning
of watching, you mentioned the
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flanker then.
Is that something at the time
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you thought, oh this is a pretty
cool position as opposed to the
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glorious full back or the tight
head prop?
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Yeah, I mean, my dad was an
eighth man.
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I don't know if there was ever.
I've never played another
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position, really, to be honest.
I've just been sort of the
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definitely no, I never wanted to
be in the forwards, not fast
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enough, not skilled enough, I
think to be in the backs,
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especially when I'm growing up
and had a bit of ticker I guess
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when I was younger.
And that's kind of the thing you
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do when I was the skinny, small,
lanky kid that was loud enough
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to get chucked up in the line
out when they started lifting.
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And so you become sort of a just
positionally around your body
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shape.
And that's where I was, that's
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where I ended up.
I loved watching those guys.
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Victor Matfield, I loved
watching him and, you know,
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reading his books and his
understanding of the line out
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and how he decipher and decoded
and all that sort of stuff.
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I think really formed into my
sort of senior rugby styles.
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Scott Burger, 100 or so.
George Smith, you know, from,
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from Australia, just guys that
knew how to get over the ball,
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had specific skills, but also
just you have to show a lot of
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ticker and a lot of heart to
plan those things.
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And while I probably didn't have
the athleticism and the
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physicality and all that sort of
stuff back then, it was one
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thing that could get you
through.
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Did you watch the games as a as
a child and go, come on, you're
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just, you know why they should
have gone on the left side sort
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of kid?
Oh, come on.
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No, no, kick it.
Chip it over the top.
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Yeah.
Maybe a little bit, probably
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just echoing whatever Mum and
Dad said and not right.
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Yeah, you know how you do.
You see what they say, A.
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Little bit one sided maybe.
We thought, oh come on ref.
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Yeah, exactly.
We did blame the ref when you
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were a bit younger.
Just loved it.
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It was something we did on
Sunday mornings.
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You'd watch rugby back, Yeah,
was, and you'd go and play it on
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Saturday and Sunday.
So it was.
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It was great.
And then the move to Australia,
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talk about that.
Seven years old.
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Yeah, yeah, I think it was just
a decision mom and dad made
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around probably what was best
for my sister and I and, and,
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and growing up at that age in
South Africa, it was quite
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unstable.
The government changed a lot and
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just probably from their point
of view, wasn't the best place
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to to raise a family.
And it's a pretty brave
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decision, I think on their part.
And all our families still over
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there, you know, it's my sister,
myself, my mom and dad that are
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over here.
All our cousins, uncles, aunties
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are over there and to move away
from that and in the pursuit of
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a better life for for Kelly and
I, it's, you know, pretty,
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pretty awesome of them and
turned out really great.
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We love our life over here.
It's been been awesome, given us
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plenty of opportunity and I've
been lucky enough to represent a
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new country and yeah, love it.
Yeah.
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Is there still a tinge or
sneaker tinge or the South
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African accent or not really?
No, not from the boys.
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Get into me, apparently, I say.
Off, I say.
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Off.
Yeah, you get sent off.
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Weird.
Yeah.
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So he's off line, as you say,
off.
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And then you'll go oof and dance
instead of dance and yeah,
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things like that.
But Nah, no accent.
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My mom and dad still have it,
but I don't really hear it with
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them.
It's just second nature.
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And Yep, that lost it.
And switching the following the
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green and following South Africa
to then then turning to gold.
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Mate.
How did you go as a kid there?
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I, I probably was a bit later
than would have thought.
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Like, you know, you sort of grow
up supporting them and you, you
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just stick with your team for a
bit.
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But then once it sort of got to
probably the last sort of year
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of school year coming out of
school, that's when you sort of
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your mates and guys you've
watched just starting to and
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trained against and trained with
starting to climb up the ranks.
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And you go, Oh, I'm watching
that guy.
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He's used to play with him or he
played at ace or he knew this
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guy and that's when he sort of
went hard following, following
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probably the players more than
the team.
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And then that just turned into a
love for for those teams, for
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the Reds, for for the Wallabies.
And and then obviously to get to
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represent those teams is it just
reinforces out of these are my
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teams now this is where I am and
you're really great to love it.
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And growing up at school, when
the State of Origin was on, you
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weren't born in either
Queensland or NSW.
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Who did you support?
I picked QLD probably didn't
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have much of A choice.
It was at a pretty good time for
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00:08:39,039 --> 00:08:41,880
Queensland just about I, I only
start remembering State of
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Origin when I went to boarding
school and we'd sort of all get
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together in the boarding house
and watch it and it was 85%
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Queensland is there and 15% is
at Wales.
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And I think it was just about to
start or or in the middle of
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that eighth straight period and.
Good fun.
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Yeah, you sort of had to pick.
Then I again, I didn't really
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00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,640
know rugby league never been a
thing watching it or, or
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00:09:04,680 --> 00:09:07,240
anything like that.
But there's all the the hype and
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00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,960
physicality around Origin and
surrounded by Queensland.
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And so I went for Queensland
and, you know, I'm staunch QLD
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now.
I love it.
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00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:16,240
You.
You, Yeah, You couldn't get.
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Looking forward to the series
coming up actually in a couple
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00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:19,600
of months time.
Yeah, it's going to be great.
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00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:21,960
Growing up you had, you
mentioned your idols when you
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00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,160
came to Australia and you
developed through your teenage
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00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:26,400
years etcetera.
Were there some other idols
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00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,680
there in Australia or rugby or
sport?
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00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:33,080
Yeah, I think probably from a
rugby point of view, you know,
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00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,080
guys like Poe, whoops, George
Smith.
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00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,800
George was in the red squad
actually in 2018 in my first
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00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,280
contract year and, you know, to
be able to sort of see the
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things he does and the the
little drills and that was
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awesome.
In 2019 when I was around the
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Wallabies fold, Poe was there
coming back from a calf injury
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before the World Cup.
And just seeing the way they
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train and just being able to, to
rub sides with them is like
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00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:01,960
really cool of, of see all those
flankers and stuff.
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00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,800
You know, Bernie coached us for
a bit in that 2019 period and
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00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:12,680
yeah, it's I was still probably
like pretty rugby mad back then.
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00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,600
I think I've really come to
appreciate a lot more sports now
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00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,200
and, you know, support the
basketball and and watch all
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00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,440
that stuff and, and love my
cricket.
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00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,840
But in terms of sort of Aussie
sport heroes, it was all real
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00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,480
rugby based.
Yeah, you mentioned basketball,
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00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:27,880
mate.
We're in the throws the playoffs
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right now.
There's been a few upsets it.
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00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,040
Has, yeah.
Every every team that's seeded
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00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,440
high has lost their first game.
Yeah, that's crazy.
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00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,440
Lakers just got knocked out and
I'm a massive LeBron fan.
224
00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:39,400
Oh, right.
OK, Yeah.
225
00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,120
That's that's a bit tough.
Your thoughts on the Luca trade?
226
00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,000
Yeah, interesting where it came
from.
227
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,280
I I.
You've been a massive sort of
228
00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:50,360
LeBron and AD combo.
Yeah, hold on a second.
229
00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:51,440
What's going on?
I've got Luca.
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00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:54,480
Just I guess you see now that
you, you still need a big and,
231
00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:59,080
and AD was that guy and it they
just didn't go all the way.
232
00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,560
So whether that's a pass or a
fail or whether they'll get
233
00:11:01,560 --> 00:11:03,920
there next year, I think you
still need more than just
234
00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,280
shooting guards and and power
forwards and stuff.
235
00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:10,080
You need that big in the centre.
And when that trade got blocked
236
00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,760
for, I think it was for Mark
Williams, it was always going to
237
00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:14,440
be a bit tough.
Right.
238
00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:18,240
We're sitting here in the early
throes of round two of the NBA
239
00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:19,680
playoffs.
I'm going to hold you to this.
240
00:11:19,680 --> 00:11:20,280
Who's your tip?
Jeez.
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00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,880
I can't say I've been following
it, so I don't want to say
242
00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:26,560
someone who's gone out.
But, well, the Nuggets had an
243
00:11:26,560 --> 00:11:28,880
upset.
Joker got 40 points, 20 rebounds
244
00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:30,360
yesterday.
They'd been OK CI think they're
245
00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:31,600
playing again today.
Yeah, that's.
246
00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:33,080
Us.
I was going.
247
00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:36,120
To say with Jokic, hard to pick
against him.
248
00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:38,720
What about the East?
Cleveland on the attacker down
249
00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,320
to nil and Boston as well on the
other side?
250
00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:42,680
Yeah.
Can we go again?
251
00:11:42,680 --> 00:11:45,280
I still think probably Nuggets
are that, you know, I haven't
252
00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,080
watched a lot of it, but I think
once Jokic goes off and gets our
253
00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:52,000
team fire and there's hard to
stop, like, yeah, he can.
254
00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:54,360
He's caught triple doubles in
mate.
255
00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:56,160
It's.
The same back, his, his, his
256
00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:59,080
arm's like a quarterback
sometimes, you know, just throws
257
00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:00,640
it.
Yeah, quick and fast.
258
00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:02,320
You just make sure you have to
be on the receiving end and
259
00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:04,160
catch it and get it and get it
in.
260
00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,200
Yeah.
So, so rugby, when did you sort
261
00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:09,160
of work out that you were pretty
good?
262
00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:15,160
Jeez, I don't know if I've even
worked it out now.
263
00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:18,560
I think for me the whole thing
with rugby was like, I enjoyed
264
00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:23,400
it and I probably got to enjoy
it more once it became out of
265
00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,240
school.
Like it's really no one really
266
00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,560
forcing you to go to trainings
doing all that stuff.
267
00:12:28,560 --> 00:12:34,440
And my my parents moved to
Sydney from Brizzy back in 2012.
268
00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,920
So I ended up boarding for a few
years at the back end there.
269
00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:40,640
And then you sort of carry on
for school up in here with all
270
00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:42,320
your mates here.
Everything you know is up here.
271
00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:45,800
And I think that was really a
point where you go all right,
272
00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:49,400
I'm if I want to get down to
training at Ace, I've got to
273
00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,120
find a way to get there.
I've got to schedule myself and,
274
00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,280
and that's the way it's going to
be.
275
00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:56,280
If I want to play footy, it's
because I enjoy it and want to
276
00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:58,240
go through.
And that was a real big turning
277
00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,040
point for me.
Whereas I think the pressure of
278
00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,240
GPS rugby was ridiculous.
Like we end up winning the
279
00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,080
premiership undefeated but it's
only 8 games and if you lose 1
280
00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:09,240
your whole senior year is ruined
pretty much.
281
00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,760
Like so I think going back to
club was just a good way to
282
00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,960
enjoy rugby again.
Was that the year with all the
283
00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:17,800
stars in it, by the way?
The Kalen Ponger.
284
00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:21,080
And yeah, Kalen Ponger, Freddy
Krofft, Jaden Sewer.
285
00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:24,640
It's when the YouTube clip
started coming out, right?
286
00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:26,720
That was when the waterboy
started going crazy and going.
287
00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,160
Viral, is it OK?
Yeah, Kalen Ponger highlights
288
00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,160
the Yeah 3024.
There's some Liam Wright
289
00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:33,960
highlights there as well.
No, I'm in the back of Kalen
290
00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:35,080
Pong.
There's a few of them trying to
291
00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,640
clean them out but I'm not
actually didn't warrant my own
292
00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:39,200
highlights.
Real.
293
00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,640
Back then mine had some breaks.
But I think there was like a
294
00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:43,800
you've won much games by a
significant.
295
00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:48,320
Yeah, I think oh, average
scoreline was like 51 to 19 or
296
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:49,800
51.
To but then come out of school
297
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:51,680
you're like, OK, you can play
rugby if you want to or you can
298
00:13:51,680 --> 00:13:53,400
get contracted by ponger and all
this stuff.
299
00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:55,160
And then it's like, well you
don't have to.
300
00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,880
You can go to uni and be like
what normal people do is go and
301
00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,160
study or do a craft or whatever
it might be.
302
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:00,680
Yeah.
Yeah.
303
00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,160
And so came out of school,
didn't get any pathways or
304
00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:07,880
anything like that.
Go to like 48 ACE, even that was
305
00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:12,640
a sort of a harder choice.
I was at King's, studied at QT
306
00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:15,480
instead of EQ and then played 40
at ease.
307
00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:19,680
So it was kind of all over the
shop and there was a lot of sort
308
00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:21,920
of those.
I don't know if you remember
309
00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:25,680
those little calling like sports
scholarships at UQ, try and get
310
00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,760
everyone there.
Bit of a For me it was a bit of
311
00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:30,600
a just a blanket recruitment
sort of thing.
312
00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:34,080
Just take everyone and they
already had the Q1 flanker there
313
00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,120
from going to UQ.
So I was like.
314
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,000
Who's that?
Connor Maroney, he's a, he's a
315
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:40,960
He runs a podcast now, too.
Actually a good guy.
316
00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,440
Yeah, in Canada, I think
somewhere.
317
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:45,600
There you go.
What a champion.
318
00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:50,720
Champion in the industry.
Yeah, but then it was just kind
319
00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:52,680
of always like that, taking a
bit of the tougher ride.
320
00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,600
I felt like Ace was a bit more
of sort of the battlers
321
00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,240
playground where we'd go and
really have to earn your rights
322
00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,840
and earn everything you get.
And as I said, sort of didn't
323
00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,680
have a licence yet.
Was living at Kings over in
324
00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:10,480
Towong Uni QT.
And so I became a master of the
325
00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,400
public transport system or the
bus and I really had to if I
326
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,440
needed to get somewhere or
wanted to do something or was up
327
00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,480
to me to do it and really sort
of instilled that drive.
328
00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:23,560
And I guess in terms of when did
I find out I was good or for me
329
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,000
it was just can I get to the
next thing?
330
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,640
Kind of when I was playing for
Colts, can I get myself into the
331
00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:32,080
under 20s pathway?
And I sort of had a little plan
332
00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:34,920
in my head of like into the
under 20s, try to get into the
333
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,960
bench, try to get a starting
role, try to get to AUS 20s if
334
00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,800
possible and just kind of just
keep going for the next thing.
335
00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:45,400
It was never like got to end up
here at the Reds or got to end
336
00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:47,640
up at the Wallabies or.
So it was never a big hairy
337
00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:49,600
audacious goal.
It was like a step by step goal
338
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,040
going well, kind of.
Yeah, I like this.
339
00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:52,960
But if I keep going, I.
Mean it's one of those things
340
00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,040
like every kid grows up going or
a lot of kids grow up going.
341
00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,880
I'll love to play rugby for a
career and I remember some
342
00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:02,720
teacher or someone was like,
yeah, but that's not realistic.
343
00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,120
Like one in 500.
It's true.
344
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,760
It's kind of.
Opposed to and yeah, but it's
345
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:10,560
that sort of was like.
Dampening.
346
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:11,960
Expected like pushing idea you
should.
347
00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:15,160
Change or go from mate?
Yeah, it made you not want to go
348
00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,160
out like I'm gonna be a pro
rugby player or something like
349
00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,040
that.
It was just like, oh maybe that
350
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,400
isn't achievable, but what is
achievable is maybe make the
351
00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:25,440
next step up or.
Yeah, I kind of feel like that's
352
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,120
a quashing, A quashing statement
as opposed to a supportive
353
00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:28,840
statement.
Yeah, it is.
354
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:30,920
Yeah.
You want to say, like, I want to
355
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,200
be a lawyer?
Like, well, you know, only a few
356
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:34,680
people become lawyer.
No, hold on a second.
357
00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:35,440
Yeah.
Exactly.
358
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,080
Go for it and we'll support you
a lawyer.
359
00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,480
Yeah, exactly.
And that I guess that then just
360
00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:41,960
turned it into, all right, well,
don't need to broadcast it that
361
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:46,680
like that'd be awesome.
But go back, study as well.
362
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:50,240
Do all those things.
And that was kind of always,
363
00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:52,440
it's something that my parents
instilled as well.
364
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,560
It's like, yeah, you can
whatever you want to do, do it
365
00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,840
hard, enjoy it.
And so that meant do the study
366
00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:03,120
full time, work for work as
well, get some casual jobs and
367
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:07,240
and some keep and just keep
cracking along with the rugby if
368
00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,760
if that's what you want to do.
And it was just a bit of a
369
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:11,880
stepping stone process.
And that's why I say, I don't
370
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,760
know if I've ever gone like I'm
really, really good at this.
371
00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:18,680
And it's just I've put in the
work and done a bit of a grind
372
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,720
and just stepped up along the
way and learnt a lot.
373
00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,280
Now you've been on a few
podcasts and this is your first
374
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,160
in person podcast game.
Welcome.
375
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:29,880
I'm sure you may not have had
this question before.
376
00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:34,160
How did you balance the off
field shenanigans at Ace versus
377
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:38,240
the on field?
I think probably luckily enough
378
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:42,400
it was.
It didn't really turn into a
379
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:48,920
full blown rugby Korea any of
that until after I think I've
380
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:52,560
got a Goodyear of Colts footy.
Getting it out of your system of
381
00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:56,040
just you finished playing at
12:30, you go righto boys, where
382
00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:57,560
are we landing?
Where are we hitting the beers
383
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:03,800
and did that week in week out,
just about for the full year.
384
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,880
And then during the week you go
go to the gym, go for your runs,
385
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:11,560
go training, go work, go labour.
You get up most mornings at 5:00
386
00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:15,520
AM, go do labouring and mow some
lawns or you know, put some
387
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,280
walls together.
Do whatever you need to make.
388
00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,680
Some keep, as you see, yeah.
Make some keep and you know, I
389
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:24,000
worked at my dad, my mate's
dad's news agency, just whatever
390
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,120
you I worked at East painting
the lines.
391
00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:28,840
The bottom line there?
Was a lot of squiggly lines
392
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,080
there for a while and just do
what you can and it and it was
393
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,920
kind of for me it was.
The field is a bit kind of
394
00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:36,240
cornered.
It's like, oh, Liam came a
395
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,880
little bit late to work and all
of a sudden it's not the
396
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:39,840
straight line.
Is that right?
397
00:18:40,360 --> 00:18:41,720
The line has, oh, we did the
best.
398
00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,360
Where's the try line?
We were we by no means
399
00:18:44,360 --> 00:18:47,800
professionals on we took the
buggy and threw the footy around
400
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,440
while we were on on call.
And, but I think it was just for
401
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:53,920
me, it was really that freeing
sort of nature of that first
402
00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,480
year out of school of like
there's a lot of pressure on
403
00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:01,360
your OP, on your trying to win
the GPS premiership, trying to
404
00:19:01,360 --> 00:19:02,920
get into a, some sort of
pathway.
405
00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,840
And almost when that was over,
it was like, all right, we'll go
406
00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:10,320
back to just enjoying what you
do a bit and you'd hang with
407
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,000
your mates, you'd, you'd still
get everything you need to done.
408
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,960
And I think that was just a
really good year of and, and I
409
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,560
think that enjoyment factor
really played into me playing
410
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,240
really good footy again, as I
sort of said back at school, I
411
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,080
was, I was in the back of
Kaylin's highlights.
412
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,960
I was just doing line outs and
breakdowns and I didn't really
413
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,560
develop that much.
And I think that first year was
414
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:33,080
really like, I'm loving this,
like playing with my mates, go a
415
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,200
few beers afterwards, go labour
during the week.
416
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:40,760
I still get uni and do all that.
It's fun, like everything's fun
417
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:43,360
at the moment and sort of played
well off the back of that.
418
00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:48,640
And then it from there I guess
once then at the end of that
419
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:50,840
year of playing good footy
consistently for a whole club
420
00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,400
season, got into the under 20s
pathway.
421
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,320
I still remember Squab calling
me and like, we'd love to have
422
00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,960
you in and I was like, awesome.
That's like, I guess that little
423
00:19:59,960 --> 00:20:04,360
tick in the box of where each in
the next step and yeah, go from
424
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,440
there.
I'm curious to know your
425
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:10,760
relationship with fun, with
rugby then then sort of the
426
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,240
pathways and you're having fun
and then all of a sudden you you
427
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:18,080
get money like it's a job.
Does anything change on that
428
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:19,480
front?
Obviously it becomes a bit more
429
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:21,640
quite unquote serious.
Yeah, definitely.
430
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:26,040
And that's why I say I think I
was lucky that I almost got a
431
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,200
lot of that out of my system
before it became a job or
432
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,120
anything like that.
And the same with I nearly just
433
00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:35,680
about finished my first uni
degree by the time I got my
434
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,800
first contract.
Like it still took me so four or
435
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,760
five years after school to get
my first contract and had to
436
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:43,720
play 2018.
Yeah.
437
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,440
And you know, I played in the
under 20s for two years and
438
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:47,880
played the oldest 20s for two
years.
439
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,600
And in that sort of second year,
I managed to play really well.
440
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:55,240
I got those 20s player of the
year and that sort of was the
441
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,440
final catalyst to be like,
here's a contract.
442
00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,080
Is that the Manila folder you
put across to?
443
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,480
The yeah yeah Yeah show.
Us your highlights and you're
444
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:02,560
like, I've got one thing for
you.
445
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,480
Yeah, I've got this little block
here and.
446
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:07,000
Little trophy.
Yeah.
447
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:10,240
And I mean it was tough to get a
contract at all.
448
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,400
So I think my first year
contract was 10 grand and
449
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:15,880
there's that for the first year.
And but you get to train with
450
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:18,360
the squad and that's, yeah, what
you get to meet enjoying, you
451
00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:20,120
get to do that.
And you met George Smith, right?
452
00:21:20,120 --> 00:21:21,440
I met.
George Smith, Yeah, Ruined with
453
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,640
him once.
And did he sort of not know who
454
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:24,760
you were and you knew not at
all?
455
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,040
So you're like, does he say, oh
g'day, I'm George.
456
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:28,280
You're like, you know, Chichela.
Yeah, Yeah.
457
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:30,120
Yeah, I know.
Yeah, I know.
458
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,080
And does he knows his name now?
Yeah, I think so.
459
00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:34,880
I hope he remembers him.
Yeah.
460
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:36,320
What did you say to him in the
first meet?
461
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,480
I remember I think I was just
like, hey George, that's
462
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,560
probably quite just tackles this
when I told my mates for all the
463
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,320
guys I was living with.
So yeah.
464
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,400
And then the first, the first
game for the Reds 2018 you
465
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,680
mentioned, Yep.
Do you want to talk about that
466
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,520
experience and putting that
jersey on and getting out there
467
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:59,760
and playing, you know, rugby for
a living, for a state with all
468
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,920
eyes on you as opposed to a
little bit of Colts at East
469
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,120
where there might have been a
few, you know, 20 bucks and 20
470
00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:08,920
girls watching.
Yeah, it was really done up.
471
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,120
There were 20 girls back at East
watching us back then, right?
472
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,080
20 people.
Yeah, but yeah, it was, it was
473
00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:16,000
really cool.
It was.
474
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:21,240
I still think that that whole
between fun and work and job and
475
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:25,640
stuff, like I still don't
consider any of what I do really
476
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:27,360
work.
Like, I don't say I've got to go
477
00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:30,360
to work, go to training, like
I'm going to go to the gym or
478
00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:33,600
going for a run or like it's
still that element of like
479
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,840
really lucky to do this.
And I think those first few
480
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:40,560
years especially was again,
didn't really consider it like,
481
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:41,760
oh, now I'm getting paid to do
this.
482
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:45,600
Things got to change.
I think for me, it probably took
483
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,880
more of a toll of once I started
getting the string of injuries,
484
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,960
that's when I was like, all
right, it's not always going to
485
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,000
be as smooth as the first few.
Like I think I played, you know,
486
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:59,720
47 Super Rugby games just about
straight, like apart from one or
487
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:01,880
two where I wasn't picked and
sort of first year.
488
00:23:02,360 --> 00:23:06,720
And it was just, it's like, this
is just how it goes.
489
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,600
Like you're here now and that's
the way it works.
490
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:10,640
And that's pretty easy.
And then I think once all the
491
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,640
injuries started happening,
that's when I took a bit more of
492
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:16,400
like, all right, well, if you do
want to get better and keep
493
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,560
growing and, and stay here,
that's when you actually got to
494
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:21,960
sacrifice a bit more.
And I think that's when I took a
495
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:26,400
lot more personally the not not
in terms of not having fun, but
496
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,360
in terms of what you're willing
to sacrifice.
497
00:23:28,360 --> 00:23:33,000
And maybe part of that was, you
know, go out sober or I'll not
498
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,280
get on the pistol my mates or
I'm going to miss the 21st or
499
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,080
I'm going to miss one of those
things.
500
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,920
And and that's really probably
where a bit of the maturity got
501
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:45,200
forced into me just through
through a bit of unluckiness
502
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,920
with with injury.
And it's that resilience muscle,
503
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,360
I think where you talk about
where you don't want to go
504
00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:53,840
through all that stuff.
But I feel like I'm definitely a
505
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,040
better athlete and better
professional now because of
506
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,680
that.
And I still think it's fun, but
507
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,240
it's then you sacrifice a few
other things in terms of what
508
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,280
you really want and you realise
what you really want to do and
509
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,960
that this isn't a given and this
isn't taken for granted.
510
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,880
And you've actually got to do a
few things differently if you
511
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,920
want to keep doing this and stay
here and get to your potential.
512
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,560
And some say that's not like the
price of entry, right, of being
513
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,600
a professional sports person.
But then you also you probably
514
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,560
need a support crew around that
to kind of, you know, support
515
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:28,720
you to say we back you and you
missed my 21st or my wedding or
516
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:30,880
whatever it might be to pursue
your thing.
517
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:32,760
But that's OK.
Like you have that, you have a
518
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:34,960
few people like that.
Definitely, yeah, as I've sort
519
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,920
of said before, all my extended
families back in South Africa,
520
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,640
so it's sort of mum, dad, myself
and my sister.
521
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:44,440
But they're also in Sydney so
they're not sort of can't just
522
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,920
go there for Sunday dinner and
wash my clothes and that sort of
523
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,840
thing.
So I've been living in a share
524
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:53,560
house with pretty much the same
group of guys since the end of
525
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:58,240
2016, and it was pretty much the
three or four of us plus ±1 or
526
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:03,640
two until late last year.
I think like probably the
527
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,920
longest lasting share house in a
long time.
528
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,200
We went about 8 years.
And yeah, they're my best mates.
529
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,840
It's my missus now.
Jokes that guys, they just get a
530
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:14,720
few friends when they're younger
and go, yeah, that'll do that.
531
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,560
Don't need any more friends and
keep the same crew.
532
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,840
And that's kind of us like we
just really bounced off each
533
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,080
other and with not having sort
of extended family.
534
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:25,760
And then my actual family is
down there.
535
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,360
I'm big believer in family is
your friends and the friends
536
00:25:29,360 --> 00:25:31,720
that you choose as well and just
the people who look out out for
537
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,000
you.
And yeah, I think without them,
538
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:36,360
they're sort of staring me a
bit.
539
00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:39,080
There's been a few times where I
go, is it worth it?
540
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,560
Like, you know, I don't get to
do what you guys do all the time
541
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,840
and go and do all the, you know,
the, the fun stuff.
542
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:47,720
Is it worth it?
And they'd sort of steam me back
543
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,160
on the skid.
And yeah.
544
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,840
Do you think you were the first
ever Wallaby captain living in a
545
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,240
share house?
I don't know.
546
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:02,680
I don't know.
I don't know, but it's I, I
547
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,760
loved that sort of in.
This modern day era of bright
548
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,320
lights and money and Instagram
and you're like, I hear my
549
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:09,880
mates, we've been living for
eight years, it's the same
550
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:11,720
thing.
And he's pretty good at lasagna,
551
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:13,360
and I'm pretty good at the
risotto and all that.
552
00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:15,200
Sort of stuff, yeah.
And you split your bills in
553
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,480
there, really.
Yeah, that split the bills.
554
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,080
I had to my news resolution one
year where you talk about sort
555
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,200
of the sacrifices was tell them,
hey guys, I'm I'm not going to
556
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:25,480
be cooking with you guys
anymore.
557
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,000
I'm going to be going out on my
own event because we'd, yeah,
558
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,920
those first few years and
probably when I realised I
559
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,000
needed to start putting on some
weight and some proper muscle
560
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,360
and I was like, I can't wait
until 9:00 PM to eat dinner for
561
00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:40,080
while you guys play Xbox and
that sort of thing.
562
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:45,440
So yeah, again, just the
sacrifice you make of I need to
563
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,480
kind of eat at six and then eat
again at 9:00 if I'm going to
564
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,680
put some weight on and take this
seriously and get a bit better.
565
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,400
And again, they were like, yeah,
cool man, do what you need to do
566
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,320
and they'll still there for a
good yarn.
567
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,120
And a lot I actually liked.
I think that helped because the
568
00:27:02,120 --> 00:27:06,320
whole balance of going between
quite an intense environment
569
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:07,920
where you're always, everyone's
trying to be better, you're
570
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,360
competing against everyone.
And then you come home and it
571
00:27:10,360 --> 00:27:12,640
might tell you about some crazy
stuff that happened on the work
572
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,840
side at labouring or whatever
happened in their day.
573
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,000
And it's just really good
balance and a shift of
574
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,160
perspective.
Did you send them a text to me
575
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,240
now and then and say, mate, I'm
I can't come home for dinner,
576
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:24,800
I'm just playing for the
Wallabies.
577
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:27,280
And by the way, if you want to
watch it, switch it on.
578
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:28,280
They can.
Nah, Nah, we've got, we've got
579
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:29,560
this Netflix series we're
watching.
580
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,480
Yeah, Oh yeah, mate, that
happened a lot the, the big
581
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:33,800
times.
You come home, your bed's gone,
582
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:34,960
mate, and you're like, what's
going on?
583
00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:37,720
Oh yeah, someone stayed over the
other night and I let them sleep
584
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,240
in your bed because you weren't
there for a few weeks and yeah,
585
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,760
Rudder, whatever.
Yeah, we're we're all pretty
586
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:45,760
close.
So you just, that's just the way
587
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:47,880
it went.
And the leadership side of
588
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:49,920
rugby, you were thrown in pretty
early as captain.
589
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,240
Is there something that you've
always been and wanted to to do
590
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,800
is sort of focus a little bit on
leadership and has that sort of
591
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:57,800
evolved naturally?
Do you think you're a natural
592
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,520
leader?
Yeah, I think I'm probably a
593
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,240
natural leader and I'd probably
only say that because it wasn't
594
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,280
really everything, anything that
I wanted.
595
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:11,440
Like I didn't go seeking it.
I didn't, you know, when it sort
596
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,840
of got handed to me in 2020,
that was like, you know, put
597
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,320
your hand up if you want to be
in line for captain next year.
598
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:18,920
And I didn't put my hand up,
mate.
599
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,520
And probably not because I
didn't think I'd be good at it
600
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,760
or anything, but just because
I've always thought it's like
601
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,760
it's up to the squad to pick who
you sort of want and who
602
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:30,960
represents and reflects what
you're about a bit more.
603
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,000
And so I never really went
searching for it.
604
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,920
When it came, I sort of went,
well, that's that's big and I
605
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,640
wanted to do it justice.
And I think then I put a lot
606
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,160
more time into trying to develop
areas of that.
607
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,160
And initially when I first got
it, I think I spent too much
608
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:51,520
time on like, how does how do I
have to do things differently to
609
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,560
be the leader that and then
after a while probably wants
610
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,080
COVID to happen.
I sort of went, all right, I
611
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,360
wasn't playing as good footy
because I was putting too much
612
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,640
emphasis on the leadership side
of it and not letting my game do
613
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,360
the talking.
And I think that's when I
614
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,080
probably took a bit more of a
backseat and win.
615
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,000
All right, well, actually got
chosen for a reason, not doing
616
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,680
anything out of the ordinary
other than just the person you
617
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,760
are.
And that's kind of what it went
618
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,880
back to a little bit of just be
a natural self of a resilient
619
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,000
guy.
You're, you're a hard worker.
620
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,360
And people obviously took some,
some luck to that and some
621
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:28,640
following to that.
And yeah, but but I did want to
622
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,800
definitely grow that aspect.
And that's where even the UNI
623
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,520
side, I picked up a masters of,
of a business, Masters of
624
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,520
business majoring in management,
which had a lot of parallels to
625
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:42,040
sort of leadership and all that
stuff.
626
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:46,480
And I really enjoyed same with
the study thing the whole way
627
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,200
along, just trying to whatever I
was doing, as my parents sort of
628
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,440
said, whatever I was doing, I
wanted to do it really well.
629
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,320
And so even that leadership
aspect and the captaincy aspect
630
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,000
was like, well, how can I get a
little bit better there?
631
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:58,880
Or how can I grow my leadership
or how can I do that?
632
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,280
And would read a lot of books
about sports leaders or business
633
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:06,160
leaders and do that sort of
stuff and listen to podcasts and
634
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,080
just pick up as much information
as I can and then try and make
635
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,120
the best decision with it.
How would you define yourself
636
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:17,000
now as a leader?
I think I'm probably a lot more
637
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,600
comfortable taking a bit of a
backseat.
638
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:24,760
Like I think, I think I've gone
from, you know, having to, to
639
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,480
speak a lot early on and try and
do that to I think I'm
640
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,280
definitely a lead by example or
a lead by action sort of guy.
641
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:36,280
And so I think now I trust the
people around me a lot more, let
642
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,840
them do their thing.
And, and I think I know how to
643
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,520
pick the right time of when I
need to inject and when I don't
644
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:47,960
just based on has what's been
needed to say been said.
645
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,480
And if it has, then doesn't need
to come out of my mouth.
646
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,680
And then that way when I do
speak, it'll have a greater
647
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:57,040
impact.
And I think just you learn that
648
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,800
as well when you're off the
field injured, that you can't
649
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:01,800
just be the only voice.
Otherwise when you're gone, it
650
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:06,400
just becomes a mess.
And so just being a bit more
651
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:10,200
selective and when I really try
to impact through that way.
652
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,960
So a bit more delegation, let
things be.
653
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,440
But then when, when it's needed,
you come in and you say, right,
654
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,920
this is what I think now.
Yeah, yeah, a little bit so.
655
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,040
Let things dictate themselves
because he's a grown man you're
656
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:21,960
playing with.
Exactly.
657
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,200
They've got the skills, they
don't need to be told.
658
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,000
I make you sure to call that
stuff like that.
659
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,280
Definitely, yeah.
And as I said, I'm a naturally
660
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,320
a, a lead by example kind of
guy.
661
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,720
I'm not the loudest in the
group, I'm not the not the
662
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,320
funniest in the group, all that
sort of thing.
663
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:41,800
So it's it's around a big thing
Thorny sort of taught me and I
664
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,080
guess that I always knew and
learned from my parents, but
665
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,560
then really understood in the
rugby and professional setting
666
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,440
was make sure your own backyards
in order before you ask anyone
667
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,960
else to do anything.
And again, I think a lot of my
668
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,040
leadership growth came actually
through these injuries and
669
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:58,600
through the resilience I had to
show there.
670
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,840
And so without being able to
directly impact the team, how
671
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,080
can I show the team that this is
the way forward or this is what
672
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,880
we've got to do?
And it's being super diligent by
673
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,640
making sure I'm owning
everything I can, my
674
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,240
preparations, the best it can be
said.
675
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,280
You cut outgoing on the piss
more.
676
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,240
You read books, are in sleep,
read all that stuff.
677
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,680
Just whatever I could do to try
and make sure that I was owning
678
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,080
what I was going to do to get
back on the field as quickly as
679
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,880
possible.
So Kebby Hall's biggest point as
680
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,320
well to me when I was injured
was, you know, the best thing
681
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,400
you can do for the team is get
yourself back out there for the
682
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,920
team.
And so you have to really focus
683
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:37,600
on what you're going to do to
get back out there.
684
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:42,840
And yeah, I guess then you can
put in your two cents because it
685
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,680
carries a lot more worth.
I'm interested to know when you
686
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,560
do the prep, you get everything
right, you're feeling good and
687
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,920
you go out and you probably play
a really good game yourself, but
688
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:54,440
your team gets pumped.
How do you feel?
689
00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:00,640
I think again, just the
development of my career is at
690
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:05,200
the start you're like at least I
sort of did my best and sort of
691
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,640
put my best foot forward and I
can get selected again next
692
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:09,960
week.
And then as you sort of get a
693
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:11,680
bit more older and probably a
bit more.
694
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:14,720
I mean you're 80 odd games
through aren't.
695
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:20,440
You yeah, and probably you get a
bit more wiggle wiggle room for
696
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,160
coaches in terms of, you know,
you might have a get bad game on
697
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,560
weeks, but you've got the
history, you've got the sort of
698
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,200
experience there and that's when
you become a lot more as a
699
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,480
leader as well.
I might have played awesome, but
700
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,320
yes, we didn't function or the
line out didn't function or
701
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,760
we're just not playing to the
our potential or what's the
702
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:40,880
issue they had or we fix it.
And that keeps you up a lot more
703
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:42,960
than like, jeez, I missed a
tackle.
704
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,080
And you can sort of live with
that because again, you've done
705
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,480
as much preparation as you can
personally to get yourself to
706
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,160
performing out on the field or
that's kind of my mantra.
707
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:56,080
It's like I can I can live with
messing up if I've done the
708
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,440
work, if I did the preparation,
if I did my tackles during the
709
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,760
week and it just didn't come off
sort of thing.
710
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,280
That's when the leadership side
of it and the just the team
711
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,280
isn't quite where we need to be.
What's that?
712
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:10,880
And you know, Titan, I would
talk a lot.
713
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:15,080
We'd be texting, calling all the
time after games we'd be and
714
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,239
talking to the coaches and
trying to get ahead of that for
715
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,960
the next week on.
And you know, that's a tiring
716
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,960
process as well.
So it's I'd say it's probably
717
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,719
harder now having to worry more
about the team than about your
718
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,159
own individual performance the
whole time.
719
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,120
Co captaincy the Lions
experimented with it and with
720
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,120
Harris Sanders looking Neil and
it and it sort of was kind of a
721
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:39,400
bit new in the AFL, in rugby.
You and Tate Co captaincy.
722
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,440
Talk at me about that.
The dynamic, the relationship
723
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,360
you have with Tate, the sort of
ups and downs, who does what
724
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,960
delegation, but also you're part
of the same team.
725
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,639
Yeah, sort of sort of back, sort
of forwards as well.
726
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,080
Yeah, yeah, I think it's worked
really well.
727
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,320
I think probably when we
started, we weren't all that
728
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,280
sure.
But again, I've, you know, been
729
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,920
injured for large parts of the
last few years.
730
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:07,120
And so it's it's kind of been a
blessing in disguise in that way
731
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,040
of having that leader that's
still on the field and helping
732
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,280
develop other leaders as well.
But I think Teddy and I
733
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:14,640
compliment each other really
well.
734
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,360
We were good mates in our sort
of similar friendship group
735
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:21,400
within the team prior to all
that happening.
736
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:28,320
And I think, you know, he's back
on the forward rugby's as a
737
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,200
simple game, but there's also a
lot of complexities within sort
738
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,880
of the understanding of really
how to impact different aspects
739
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:36,920
of it.
And so I can take a bit more of
740
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,200
an ownership around that line
out and that forward capability
741
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,000
and then he can do the backs and
the attacking wise, more of a
742
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,040
defensive plays more of an
attacking player.
743
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,880
You know, he's quite a an
emotional, fierce guy,
744
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,240
passionate guy as well.
Whereas I'm probably more calm.
745
00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:54,440
Reasoning, logic, just think we
bounce off each other.
746
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,200
And then as we've sort of learnt
over the years, when that
747
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,520
changes and I get a bit
redheaded and, and bit hot, he
748
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,200
comes in with the calming 1 and
we've just learned how to sort
749
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,640
of read the room.
If the coaches are going hot and
750
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,440
heavy, we know how to bring it
back down to because this is
751
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,960
what we need to do.
If the coaches are very, this is
752
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:12,720
the plan, this is the plan, but
we're not getting arrested.
753
00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:15,760
And then we can go emotional and
try and get that rise out of the
754
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,560
boys.
And it's just been again, good
755
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,560
growth, good learning.
And I think it's it's not that
756
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,120
popular, it's not that necessary
because probably the hardest
757
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,120
part of it is when you're Co
captains and you're sort of
758
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,200
saying it's who has the final
say that sort of stuff.
759
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,960
But in terms of how many
different roles and different
760
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,840
things you have to manage and
different captaincy aspects.
761
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,120
You know, even before the game,
Tate is 1/2 back off and needs
762
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,600
to get out there real early, do
his kicking, do his passing, do
763
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,280
all his basics before he then
joins in on individual warm up
764
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:49,400
and team stuff.
So I'd nail the coin toss.
765
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:53,440
I go and talk to the refs and I
become the major voice there and
766
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:57,640
he can be freer to do that and
then it's just picking up the
767
00:36:57,640 --> 00:36:59,440
loads where where the other one
needs it to.
768
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:03,360
I think it's been good.
It's organically worked really,
769
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,920
really well.
I'm also interested around the
770
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,480
successful teams that you've
been in, the 2021 team that won
771
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,480
the the Super Rugby programme
and then also the Wallabies and
772
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,000
you've played a few games, six
games or so.
773
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,920
And then and then sort of a
different culture again,
774
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,560
Wallabies versus Queensland, but
the successful teams that you've
775
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,720
played and what do you think the
successful teams have done right
776
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:26,440
versus the teams that have
finished bottom?
777
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,040
I think there's probably been a
greater understanding of how we
778
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,160
want to play and what kind of
team we want to be.
779
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:37,280
And it becomes a lot easier to
own that role and own that
780
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,240
accountability and, and be able
to pull each other off when you
781
00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:42,640
need to or, or encourage each
other when you need to, when you
782
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:46,760
know what you're trying to do.
And that's, you know, something
783
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,240
I've really noticed probably
probably last year, we were
784
00:37:49,240 --> 00:37:53,080
really, really clear on our on
our detail, on our roles on, on
785
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,160
how we want to end up on what we
want to grow in our game.
786
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,200
You know, and you see that with
probably the Wallabies under
787
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,520
judgement as well, how they've
really grown really, really
788
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,880
clear on this is the type of
team we want to play.
789
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,440
This is a sort of breakdown.
We want to be, this is how we
790
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,480
want to manage games, win them
out, close them out, that sort
791
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,200
of thing.
I think it's a lot easier and
792
00:38:14,240 --> 00:38:16,720
more to be successful when you
understand what you're trying to
793
00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:18,240
be.
When you just sort of float
794
00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:22,000
around and go with the flow and
and you know, hope that you
795
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,200
don't get exposed or hope that
this works against this team and
796
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,320
this doesn't.
When you're a lot more clear
797
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,960
around your role and your style
of play.
798
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:33,160
Think same with anything really.
You can.
799
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:34,640
You can be a bit more confident
in it.
800
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,360
Yeah, there's a song called I'm
on the Road to Nowhere.
801
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,200
You know, if you don't know
where you're going, it's pretty
802
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,800
hard to kind of define your
goal.
803
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:43,040
How do you know when you get
there or not?
804
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:43,960
Yeah.
Yeah.
805
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,960
And so Speaking of goals, and
you've sort of touched on it
806
00:38:47,240 --> 00:38:49,760
earlier when you were sort of
saying, oh, if I make the bench,
807
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,960
I might then make the starting
line up and now you're you're in
808
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:53,720
the process of recovery from an
injury.
809
00:38:53,720 --> 00:38:58,120
Have you got a goal in mind?
Honestly the only goal at the
810
00:38:58,120 --> 00:38:59,400
moment is to get back playing
footy.
811
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:04,960
It's it's prior to this, all the
injuries I've had have been
812
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,600
pretty sort of tough injuries
and big injuries and stuff, but
813
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,520
reasonably smooth along the way.
This is probably the first real
814
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,080
big one I've had that just
hasn't gone to plan multiple,
815
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,760
multiple times.
I've had three surgeries on this
816
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,560
shoulder since that injury
against Wales, trying to sort of
817
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,440
figure out what's happening and
get everything working the way
818
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:28,240
it should and it just not
cooperating as easily as it has
819
00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:30,800
in the past.
And so I guess the only goal is
820
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:35,680
to get back playing footy
because I think as we sort of
821
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,520
speak about the team stuff, I'm
a lot more confident in what I
822
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,880
can bring to a team now and what
I sort of assert as a player and
823
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,600
as a leader.
And so I feel that if I can get
824
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,000
myself healthy and get myself
back playing, then the rest will
825
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,040
take care of itself because of
the years and years of work and
826
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:52,680
preparation you've done up to
that point.
827
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:56,200
And so the only goal is to get
the shoulder working and playing
828
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,640
again.
We've got a big rugby schedule
829
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:00,840
over the next coming years in
Australia.
830
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:06,000
Grassroots rugby is probably at
a tough spot and and
831
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,600
participation rates and rugby
per SE in the competition
832
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,480
landscape between AFLNRL and
other sports etcetera.
833
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:19,000
Keen to hear your views on rugby
per SE as a junior level and
834
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,000
also what you've gone through.
You didn't really go through the
835
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,960
traditional pathways and coming
from South Africa, but is there
836
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,240
something which you know you
would like to see rugby in a
837
00:40:27,240 --> 00:40:30,880
couple of years?
Yeah, I think it's such a hard
838
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,920
one because grassroots produces
the top level, but the top level
839
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,160
funds the grassroots level and
and that's where the other
840
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,000
sports like AFL and NRL really
hovered over us and that
841
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:42,800
generates so much money that
they can really pump that into
842
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,320
grassroots.
At the top, filtering to the
843
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,760
bottom to get back to it.
Right down to then Yep, Yep,
844
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,040
feed up and which.
Comes at a board level and it
845
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,240
comes at a management level then
as well, as opposed to players
846
00:40:53,240 --> 00:40:55,800
playing and performance as well.
Yeah, which is why I think this
847
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,440
next few years with the with the
Lions and the World Cup and then
848
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,320
the Women's World Cup after that
is just going to be so
849
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:02,600
important.
Like you can see the way the
850
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:04,920
women's game has grown with a
bit more investment in the game,
851
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:10,400
and that comes off the back of
probably the 7th success, yeah.
852
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,160
We've had Bella Nasrin recently,
actually on the podcast, yeah,
853
00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:15,560
she's sort of half migrating to
the 15 game as well, because
854
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,000
there's opportunities and World
Cups, etcetera.
855
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:19,960
Yeah, it's exciting.
So I think the next few years
856
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:24,240
are, I don't think it's as dire
as probably do or die, but I
857
00:41:24,240 --> 00:41:27,920
think if we mismanage this next
few years, it's hard to come
858
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,000
back from.
So I think the board and Rugby
859
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,880
Australia is doing a much better
job of actually controlling our
860
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,600
finances and bringing ourselves
back into actually, hey, let's
861
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,960
become a bit more of a business
so that we can keep doing the
862
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,160
thing we love and our purpose of
making rugby grade in Australia.
863
00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:48,720
But goes back to that grassroots
of they want more attention and
864
00:41:48,720 --> 00:41:51,200
they want more.
They want to see more of a slice
865
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,520
of the pie, I think.
And I think that's so necessary
866
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:57,440
because you go to those clubs
and so many volunteers and so
867
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,840
many people just doing their
best to try and keep everyone
868
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:02,280
afloat until they get to that
level.
869
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,400
And then, you know, you look at
the NRL just come in and sweep
870
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:09,040
them or something like that.
It's, it's a very hard problem
871
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:10,360
to combat.
And I don't know the full
872
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:15,760
answer, but I think the top
level of the game owes it to the
873
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:19,400
grassroots to really treat this
next few years seriously and and
874
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:24,680
get results that'll turn into
financial freedom to reinvest,
875
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,280
create that cycle that the other
sports have gone really well.
876
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,360
And as a kid you were growing up
and you saw these idols and you
877
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,720
wanted to get the autograph
probably pre selfie days.
878
00:42:32,720 --> 00:42:35,960
But now, now being a player
yourself and people look up to
879
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,760
you and they know your name.
How do you go about and managing
880
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,200
that yourself?
Yeah, it's it's, I mean, I think
881
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,080
you want to try and give back as
much as you can.
882
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,160
I was down at East last night
with under fourteens.
883
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,160
They're trying to help out, but
it's also a weird one because
884
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:55,200
you don't see yourself as some
hotshot celebrity or autograph
885
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:57,080
giver or the same.
As sports, yeah.
886
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,520
Yeah, kind of the same, same as
when when you were younger and
887
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:03,960
you'd be like, oh, that's that
guy and that's awesome.
888
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,360
And I want to, it doesn't then
translate to like, I'm that guy
889
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,760
now and I go, but you know, you
do the best you can, you try and
890
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,960
help out where you can.
Our our group at the Reds is
891
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:15,480
really, really good at that
around.
892
00:43:15,720 --> 00:43:18,360
So many of them go back to their
clubs, they help out, they're
893
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,840
happy to do promos, they're
happy to talk to people, take
894
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:23,560
photos at the airport, all that
sort of stuff.
895
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:24,600
Like they're really, really
good.
896
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,680
And that's I think that was
probably installed a lot through
897
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:31,480
Thorny in the early days of just
being a role model, showing care
898
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:34,160
for the club and the jersey and
the people that you represent.
899
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:36,440
Did a lot of those register
regions stuff.
900
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,280
I don't know if you saw, but
going out to country towns and
901
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:41,520
country places where the rugby
probably doesn't reach that
902
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,720
often outside of southeast
Queensland and just trying to
903
00:43:44,720 --> 00:43:46,400
give back, like not go there to
take.
904
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,960
And you get a lot of good stuff
and cool stuff as a professional
905
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,520
player now, but it's actually
just giving back and helping and
906
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,080
giving you time.
And I think that's filtered
907
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,120
through a lot of the guys and
and just kept in their nature
908
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,280
where they want to help as much
as they can.
909
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:07,560
But it's again, it comes down to
the game probably needs a bit
910
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:09,560
more help than just a
professional player going down
911
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:11,520
and holding some pads that are
at a thing.
912
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:15,920
We need the whole game to get an
order and then that becomes so
913
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:17,200
much more meaningful, I think
and.
914
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,840
Particularly with social media,
except for some of these teenage
915
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,760
kids and whatever can follow
their idols and, and see them
916
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,320
and they're probably a little
bit more well known and well
917
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,040
followed than than idols these
days.
918
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:30,640
So it's interesting that you,
you mentioned that.
919
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,280
How do you go with all that sort
of stuff as well with the the
920
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:35,600
idea of that wherever you go and
you're having a beer or you're
921
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:37,360
having a coffee, someone might
take a snap of you.
922
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,400
Yeah, that's, that's probably a
weird thing to consider.
923
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,760
You know, I'm not amazing on the
social media and stuff.
924
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:46,840
I sometimes wish I was.
You see the guys who can really
925
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,360
plug up sponsors and do all that
stuff and just make a really
926
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:51,920
I'm.
At the gym, I'm at the Cafe, my
927
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:53,920
favourite restaurant.
Exactly like he's.
928
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:55,480
Me cuddling my kids.
Oh wow, you.
929
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,120
Know yeah yeah and create that
life that people want to follow
930
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:03,000
these days that's not exactly me
and my style but you know it is
931
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:07,360
weird you go down to a younger
team and and try and help them
932
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,960
out and they go I sent you a
message request or will you
933
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,600
follow me back and like that's
the new thing of like, you know
934
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,120
so and so's following.
Autograph on a piece of paper
935
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:18,560
that you found that your parents
in the in the handbag back in I
936
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:20,920
down on the gum.
You're like, is there something
937
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:22,080
you've got that I can get an
autograph?
938
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:24,160
From yeah, but now it's at
school, they're showing who
939
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:26,400
follows them back from the boys
that they messaged.
940
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:30,240
And yeah, it's a weird one, but
I mean, I think we're, we're
941
00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:34,560
quite in a way, we're quite
lucky up here in Queensland
942
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:38,160
where, you know, you don't have
the sort of cult following that
943
00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:40,640
that leagues do where you, you
go to the shops and you're
944
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:42,720
getting hounded and doing that
you, you see.
945
00:45:42,720 --> 00:45:44,320
All the Collingwood players in
Melbourne.
946
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:46,080
AFL players at an.
Airport or something?
947
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:47,640
Yeah.
They go outside, they're getting
948
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,440
hounded and they're getting and
hounded's the wrong word.
949
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:53,960
But generally you got phones,
you got paparazzi in your face.
950
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:57,080
Whereas up here it's if you get
sort of called, it's actually
951
00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:01,120
like, oh wow, they follow rugby,
they want rugby to do well, you
952
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,040
give me a time any, any day of
the week so.
953
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:04,440
Yeah, they're showing you some
love you can show.
954
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,760
Them some love there so.
Just touching on sport there for
955
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:09,920
a second, I'm going to ask you
about your all time favourite
956
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:14,040
sporting moment.
My all time favourite sporting
957
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,800
moment is as I said before, I'm
a massive LeBron fan.
958
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:22,920
To me, he's just the epitome of
a modern athlete where he's you
959
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,200
talk about different cameras in
your face the whole time.
960
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,560
Like, you know, he's, he's never
really messed up.
961
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:29,240
He's been, he's been good to his
family.
962
00:46:29,240 --> 00:46:32,120
He's been good to trying to help
as many people as he can.
963
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:35,440
He's the like you talk about
investing in yourself.
964
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:37,720
That's like one and a half
million. $1,000,000 in yourself,
965
00:46:37,720 --> 00:46:40,000
but his personal trainer, his
dietitian, he's like.
966
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:42,200
All that stuff.
Psychologists, probably as.
967
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:45,080
Well, yeah, all that sort of
stuff and and just the longevity
968
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:48,880
like that's I guess in terms of
making the most of what you got.
969
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,160
Like I've that sort of stuff
I've really taken out.
970
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:53,960
So probably the 2016
championship when he come back
971
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:58,560
from three one went beast mode
him and Kyrie and yeah, just
972
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,720
watching that last game with the
block and then Kyrie hitting the
973
00:47:01,720 --> 00:47:05,880
three like yeah, that was.
LeBron James, You know the first
974
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,880
scored moment with LeBron James.
We've had lots of different dash
975
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:10,840
party.
The other day at Wimbledon, we
976
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,000
had the Matildas.
It's been awesome to go down
977
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:14,840
memory lane on some of these
sporting events.
978
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,960
That's great.
And Speaking of events, the
979
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,080
school board moment, which is a
moment in your life which you
980
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,280
kind of pretty clear and you
remember, I remember that and
981
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:25,200
that caused that.
It's a long like a sliding rules
982
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:26,480
moment.
Have you got a school board
983
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,280
moment?
Yeah, I kind of alluded to it
984
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:33,920
before, but it was in start of
grade 10 when we'd.
985
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:36,960
So my parents, my family, we
came over from South Africa.
986
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:40,360
We lived in Sydney for a little
bit and we went to Brizzy and
987
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:43,360
then was there from a church
here from grade 7:00 to 9:00.
988
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:47,520
And then the end of grade 9,
they said dad's jobs moved,
989
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:49,040
we've got to move back to
Sydney.
990
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:51,520
And I chucked a little bit of a
hissy fit.
991
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:54,520
I, I was talking to my dad about
it actually the other day and he
992
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:57,240
was saying that because I always
thought I just threw a bit of a
993
00:47:57,240 --> 00:47:59,040
tantrum.
And they said, oh, you can stay
994
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:02,000
if you want or whatever.
And but he said that when we
995
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:06,840
moved from Sydney to Brisbane, I
sort of, he made a promise to me
996
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:10,120
that if we haven't moved again,
I'd give him the option, he'd
997
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:12,200
give me the option of what I
wanted to do.
998
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:16,320
And apparently I called him out
and said, you said when I and so
999
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,440
they sort of said, all right,
well, you can come with us or
1000
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:23,040
you can try out boarding.
And I think mum thought it was
1001
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:25,120
just a bit of a throwaway.
Apparently I was a massive sort
1002
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:27,080
of mama's boy there and didn't
know how to do anything.
1003
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:30,480
Wouldn't tie and shoes tie my
own tie, that sort of stuff.
1004
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:32,200
My wife would say that I'm my
mum's boy.
1005
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:37,120
And I tried boarding and I loved
it like he wants not to love.
1006
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:40,320
You've got 80 odd guys in the
boarding house here.
1007
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:42,600
Whenever you wanted to play
touch footy, you got a game
1008
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:44,680
right there.
Like you're always hanging out
1009
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:47,160
with your mates.
You get up to a bit of no good.
1010
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:50,280
You get a good routine, you
learn, you learn a bit more
1011
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:52,320
about yourself because you don't
have mom and dad there saying,
1012
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:56,880
and I do this, make your bed,
wash your clothes, whatever.
1013
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:59,640
Like if you miss laundry, you're
wearing dirty clothes for the
1014
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:02,440
next few days sort of thing.
And for me that was the real
1015
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:06,160
sort of moment because as I've
grown up a bit more, I've
1016
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:07,880
realised how fortunate I was
with that.
1017
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,080
Like my parents, as I say, we
used to watch rugby all the
1018
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:12,680
time.
They loved watching rugby.
1019
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:16,760
Like dad for grade 12 flew up
and watched every game of mine,
1020
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:21,320
even of 1st 15.
And like if like I took that
1021
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,000
away from them by keeping the
opportunity to be up here and
1022
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:27,520
then go down there.
And so that's I think really
1023
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:29,960
where I've got that hole.
If I'm going to be here, if I'm
1024
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:32,080
going to be away from my family,
I'm going to give it all I've
1025
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:33,760
got.
And I think that's really just
1026
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,280
stayed with me the whole time.
I think I've ever been the most
1027
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:39,880
talented or the most athletic or
anything like that, But I've
1028
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:43,320
always had that mindset of I'm
going to give it everything I've
1029
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:46,640
got if if what I've got is not
enough and sort of live with
1030
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:49,360
that.
And it transformed me into if I
1031
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,640
want to do something but no one
else there that's forced me to
1032
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:55,320
get out of bed, setting the
alarm sort of thing, I've got to
1033
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:57,080
do it myself.
And I think that's kept me in
1034
00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:58,240
good stead for the rest of my
life.
1035
00:49:58,240 --> 00:50:00,440
And that's kind of the moment I
attribute it to.
1036
00:50:01,240 --> 00:50:04,160
One final question, Liam, going
back to that 15 year old boy
1037
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:06,640
that's been given the news that
he's about to to board.
1038
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,560
There's 15 year old boys and
girls out there that are playing
1039
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:12,440
sport and they're once a a young
limb may be having the
1040
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:13,960
aspiration to play at the
highest level.
1041
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:16,680
What's some advice that you can
give to the 15 year old now?
1042
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:20,240
The main thing I think is go
back to enjoyment.
1043
00:50:20,240 --> 00:50:22,560
Like I think if you're not
enjoying it, you're not gonna
1044
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:24,680
try a bit harder.
You know, you're doing it for
1045
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:26,160
someone else.
Like I think that was also
1046
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:29,760
probably the big thing is I felt
like back then I was doing a lot
1047
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,840
of the stuff just because my
parents wanted me to play rugby.
1048
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,600
That's what I wanted to do.
Felt again a bit, probably a bit
1049
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:38,600
freed from pressure of like,
well, actually this is pretty
1050
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:40,680
cool.
Like I'm don't have to worry
1051
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:42,920
about my parents over my
shoulder, like trying to please
1052
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:44,680
them look back.
Oh, did they see that tackle?
1053
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:47,520
Whatever, all that stuff that I
sort of put on myself more than
1054
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:51,280
them actually putting on me.
But if you enjoy it, you're
1055
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:53,960
going to.
You either just enjoy the game
1056
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,160
and that's great, that's all
there is to it.
1057
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:58,640
Or you enjoy it and you put in a
bit more work because it's what
1058
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:02,040
you like and what you wanna do.
And if that's the route you
1059
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:04,520
wanna take, then you're gonna
have to put in some hard work
1060
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:06,440
over the time.
And it's a lot easier to put in
1061
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:09,520
that hard work if you remember
why you love it and why you do
1062
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:11,080
it.
Liam Wright, thank you so much
1063
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:13,400
for being on school board the
podcast today and sharing some
1064
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:16,720
insights into your life from the
early days in South Africa to
1065
00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:18,960
where you are now and your
current position with the with
1066
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:20,480
the shoulder injury.
And I wish you all the best in
1067
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:23,080
terms of your recovery and the
and the next phase of your life
1068
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:25,760
rugby on and off the field.
Thanks Chris, really enjoyed it.
00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:03,760
From the arena to the front
office, this is Scoreboard.
2
00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:07,440
I'm Chris Titley, and each
episode brings you stories from
3
00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:11,200
the game of sport, where
mindset, money and meaning shape
4
00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:14,760
what comes next.
Athletes, coaches, owners and
5
00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,880
business leaders unpack the
moments that matter because the
6
00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:19,480
scoreboard isn't just about
winning.
7
00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:23,080
It's about life beyond the game.
Now let's get to this week's
8
00:00:23,080 --> 00:00:26,040
episode.
Hi, it's Chris Titley here.
9
00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:28,360
And on today's episode of School
Board the Podcast, I'm joined by
10
00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:30,800
Liam Wright in person here in
Brizzy.
11
00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:32,840
What a beautiful day, Liam.
Welcome.
12
00:00:33,160 --> 00:00:34,960
Thanks for having.
Me mate, what have you been up
13
00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,520
to this morning?
I've been to Ballymore, just
14
00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,240
soaking up the sunshine, getting
a bit of weight soon and just a
15
00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:42,480
bit of rehab stuff.
Yeah, mate, we're sitting here
16
00:00:42,480 --> 00:00:45,640
on the, what was it the 8th of
May already 2025?
17
00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:50,000
How's your 2025 been?
Rugby wise has been a bit
18
00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,000
rubbish.
The rest of it's been good.
19
00:00:52,160 --> 00:00:54,320
We've enjoyed the the rest of
the year and everything but
20
00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:57,360
yeah, obviously injuries in in
sports arc and.
21
00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,440
Yeah.
On the back of a few now so just
22
00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,480
trying to get ourselves back
ready and playing footy again.
23
00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:06,160
Yeah, mate, the the shoulder is,
it's been niggling for a while.
24
00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:07,280
Yeah, yeah, right.
Shoulder.
25
00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:11,640
So the same sort of same injury
that we picked up in that first
26
00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,480
Test against Wales last year and
but a couple games in at the
27
00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:17,520
start of the year and then it
sort of seems to have Recon and
28
00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:19,680
RE went.
So still in the process of
29
00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:21,600
trying to really get to the
bottom bottom of it.
30
00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:23,320
Yeah, mate.
So one of the the traits that
31
00:01:23,320 --> 00:01:25,240
I've spoken to a number of
athletes is resilience.
32
00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,280
Obviously going through a period
of now a a down period.
33
00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:29,640
How are you on the resilience
front?
34
00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,400
Yeah, I think, I think if I
didn't have resilience, I think
35
00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:34,680
it's, it's probably one of my
biggest assets.
36
00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,920
I think with the way the last
probably four or five years have
37
00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:43,080
gone for me injury wise and
rugby wise probably wouldn't
38
00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,000
still be here without it.
It's it's carried me through and
39
00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:48,800
probably one of those ones those
muscles that you don't want to
40
00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:52,200
have to flex.
But it's, it's something that I
41
00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:54,480
think will, I've, I've got to
believe that it will set me in
42
00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:58,000
good stead for the rest of my
life and, and just keep keeping
43
00:01:58,000 --> 00:01:59,240
on.
Just keep keeping on.
44
00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,480
Now let's talk about Liam Wright
rugby.
45
00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:04,080
Where did the interest in rugby
come from?
46
00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,280
Well, born in South Africa, my
parents are both South African,
47
00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:12,400
they're rugby nutters as well.
So I guess, you know, I remember
48
00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,920
my dad would wake me up on
Sunday morning at 45 AM when we
49
00:02:15,920 --> 00:02:19,400
couldn't sleep and I'd watch all
the games that we recorded the
50
00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:20,960
night before, watch all the
Super Rugby.
51
00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:23,360
Even.
My mum's really into it.
52
00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:27,640
She'll give a very thorough
analysis of games and I could
53
00:02:27,640 --> 00:02:30,080
just grow up loving it, watching
it.
54
00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,240
You know, when I, when I first
started playing, I was probably
55
00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:35,960
more what Mum said.
My first game, she caught me
56
00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,120
doing hand stands on the field
and cartwheels on the field.
57
00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:42,160
So it wasn't so much that, but
it was just the, yeah, I just,
58
00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:45,880
it's always been a part of my
family and growing up and taking
59
00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:48,520
that through.
And watching it on the TV in
60
00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,400
South Africa, what was the team
that you followed and what was
61
00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:52,880
the format of the competition
then?
62
00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:56,360
Was the the twelves or the 10s?
Super 10, Super 12, Super 15 and
63
00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:58,560
14.
Super 14, probably when I first
64
00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:02,280
started taking most of an
interest, it was the the sharks,
65
00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,160
Durban Sharks and tall sharks
that dad and I followed back
66
00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:07,280
then and, and, and the
Springboks.
67
00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:09,280
And obviously now it's the Reds
and the Wallabies.
68
00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,320
So it's changed a bit.
But yeah, just, you know, I
69
00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,720
remember going to Shark Park a
few times when I was younger and
70
00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,880
watching the guys play and I
remember, you know, the Sharks
71
00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,640
and the Bulls, the semi finals
and the finals there 2007
72
00:03:22,640 --> 00:03:24,480
through 2009.
It was a pretty good period
73
00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:28,320
there of the Sharks doing really
well and, and being competitive
74
00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:32,120
and just, I guess it just
sparked an interest, a common
75
00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:34,080
bond between my dad and I and my
mom and I.
76
00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,840
And then as you sort of go older
and get to understand the game a
77
00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:39,760
bit more, I've just really come
to love it.
78
00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:42,400
Who Who are the players in the
Sharks in mate?
79
00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,280
Could he name the zero the 1 to
15 then?
80
00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:48,720
Probably couldn't name the 1:15.
You know, I remember obviously
81
00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,120
the beast coming through.
Stephen de Blanche was the full
82
00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:53,480
back.
My dad always used to tell me
83
00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:57,280
that he was so fit that he had
to above and beyond all the team
84
00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,320
fitness, he'd have to go and run
extra stairs to get his heart
85
00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,560
rate up and get as fit as he
could.
86
00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,160
Urban Myth.
Yeah, there'll probably be
87
00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,400
people in our team that'll say
the same thing and we're like,
88
00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,800
no, it didn't happen.
But yeah, I just grew up
89
00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,800
watching a lot of those guys.
You know, Sculpt Burger didn't
90
00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,720
didn't play for the Sharks, but
tough flanker that sort of
91
00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:21,160
probably tried to model a bit of
my game across and just enjoyed
92
00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:24,320
watching a lot of footy and they
were the guys to watch when
93
00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,120
you're a young kid in South
Africa growing up.
94
00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,760
Yeah, and then the positioning
of watching, you mentioned the
95
00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:31,480
flanker then.
Is that something at the time
96
00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,160
you thought, oh this is a pretty
cool position as opposed to the
97
00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:36,200
glorious full back or the tight
head prop?
98
00:04:36,280 --> 00:04:38,760
Yeah, I mean, my dad was an
eighth man.
99
00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:43,120
I don't know if there was ever.
I've never played another
100
00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:45,880
position, really, to be honest.
I've just been sort of the
101
00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,360
definitely no, I never wanted to
be in the forwards, not fast
102
00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:51,360
enough, not skilled enough, I
think to be in the backs,
103
00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:55,400
especially when I'm growing up
and had a bit of ticker I guess
104
00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:57,200
when I was younger.
And that's kind of the thing you
105
00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:02,080
do when I was the skinny, small,
lanky kid that was loud enough
106
00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,200
to get chucked up in the line
out when they started lifting.
107
00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:08,360
And so you become sort of a just
positionally around your body
108
00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:10,040
shape.
And that's where I was, that's
109
00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,240
where I ended up.
I loved watching those guys.
110
00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,680
Victor Matfield, I loved
watching him and, you know,
111
00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:16,920
reading his books and his
understanding of the line out
112
00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,000
and how he decipher and decoded
and all that sort of stuff.
113
00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:24,520
I think really formed into my
sort of senior rugby styles.
114
00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,880
Scott Burger, 100 or so.
George Smith, you know, from,
115
00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:32,280
from Australia, just guys that
knew how to get over the ball,
116
00:05:32,280 --> 00:05:34,640
had specific skills, but also
just you have to show a lot of
117
00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:37,120
ticker and a lot of heart to
plan those things.
118
00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:41,800
And while I probably didn't have
the athleticism and the
119
00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:45,480
physicality and all that sort of
stuff back then, it was one
120
00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:46,360
thing that could get you
through.
121
00:05:46,840 --> 00:05:50,120
Did you watch the games as a as
a child and go, come on, you're
122
00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:52,560
just, you know why they should
have gone on the left side sort
123
00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:54,680
of kid?
Oh, come on.
124
00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:56,120
No, no, kick it.
Chip it over the top.
125
00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,040
Yeah.
Maybe a little bit, probably
126
00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,400
just echoing whatever Mum and
Dad said and not right.
127
00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:03,560
Yeah, you know how you do.
You see what they say, A.
128
00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:05,920
Little bit one sided maybe.
We thought, oh come on ref.
129
00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,040
Yeah, exactly.
We did blame the ref when you
130
00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,880
were a bit younger.
Just loved it.
131
00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,000
It was something we did on
Sunday mornings.
132
00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:18,840
You'd watch rugby back, Yeah,
was, and you'd go and play it on
133
00:06:18,840 --> 00:06:20,000
Saturday and Sunday.
So it was.
134
00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,080
It was great.
And then the move to Australia,
135
00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:25,160
talk about that.
Seven years old.
136
00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,040
Yeah, yeah, I think it was just
a decision mom and dad made
137
00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:31,600
around probably what was best
for my sister and I and, and,
138
00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,000
and growing up at that age in
South Africa, it was quite
139
00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,000
unstable.
The government changed a lot and
140
00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,000
just probably from their point
of view, wasn't the best place
141
00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,800
to to raise a family.
And it's a pretty brave
142
00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,600
decision, I think on their part.
And all our families still over
143
00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,720
there, you know, it's my sister,
myself, my mom and dad that are
144
00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:51,520
over here.
All our cousins, uncles, aunties
145
00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,120
are over there and to move away
from that and in the pursuit of
146
00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:59,400
a better life for for Kelly and
I, it's, you know, pretty,
147
00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,680
pretty awesome of them and
turned out really great.
148
00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:05,440
We love our life over here.
It's been been awesome, given us
149
00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:09,960
plenty of opportunity and I've
been lucky enough to represent a
150
00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,120
new country and yeah, love it.
Yeah.
151
00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:14,800
Is there still a tinge or
sneaker tinge or the South
152
00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,800
African accent or not really?
No, not from the boys.
153
00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:19,880
Get into me, apparently, I say.
Off, I say.
154
00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:21,440
Off.
Yeah, you get sent off.
155
00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:22,160
Weird.
Yeah.
156
00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:24,840
So he's off line, as you say,
off.
157
00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:30,360
And then you'll go oof and dance
instead of dance and yeah,
158
00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:32,000
things like that.
But Nah, no accent.
159
00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,720
My mom and dad still have it,
but I don't really hear it with
160
00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:36,600
them.
It's just second nature.
161
00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:40,400
And Yep, that lost it.
And switching the following the
162
00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:44,600
green and following South Africa
to then then turning to gold.
163
00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:46,160
Mate.
How did you go as a kid there?
164
00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,160
I, I probably was a bit later
than would have thought.
165
00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:52,480
Like, you know, you sort of grow
up supporting them and you, you
166
00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:53,760
just stick with your team for a
bit.
167
00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,920
But then once it sort of got to
probably the last sort of year
168
00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,400
of school year coming out of
school, that's when you sort of
169
00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,400
your mates and guys you've
watched just starting to and
170
00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,160
trained against and trained with
starting to climb up the ranks.
171
00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:06,400
And you go, Oh, I'm watching
that guy.
172
00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,200
He's used to play with him or he
played at ace or he knew this
173
00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:12,560
guy and that's when he sort of
went hard following, following
174
00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:13,920
probably the players more than
the team.
175
00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,240
And then that just turned into a
love for for those teams, for
176
00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:19,800
the Reds, for for the Wallabies.
And and then obviously to get to
177
00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,720
represent those teams is it just
reinforces out of these are my
178
00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,920
teams now this is where I am and
you're really great to love it.
179
00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,400
And growing up at school, when
the State of Origin was on, you
180
00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:32,559
weren't born in either
Queensland or NSW.
181
00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:37,280
Who did you support?
I picked QLD probably didn't
182
00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:39,039
have much of A choice.
It was at a pretty good time for
183
00:08:39,039 --> 00:08:41,880
Queensland just about I, I only
start remembering State of
184
00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:44,600
Origin when I went to boarding
school and we'd sort of all get
185
00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,440
together in the boarding house
and watch it and it was 85%
186
00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:50,760
Queensland is there and 15% is
at Wales.
187
00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:54,080
And I think it was just about to
start or or in the middle of
188
00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:57,880
that eighth straight period and.
Good fun.
189
00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,440
Yeah, you sort of had to pick.
Then I again, I didn't really
190
00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,640
know rugby league never been a
thing watching it or, or
191
00:09:04,680 --> 00:09:07,240
anything like that.
But there's all the the hype and
192
00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,960
physicality around Origin and
surrounded by Queensland.
193
00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,160
And so I went for Queensland
and, you know, I'm staunch QLD
194
00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:14,840
now.
I love it.
195
00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:16,240
You.
You, Yeah, You couldn't get.
196
00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:18,240
Looking forward to the series
coming up actually in a couple
197
00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:19,600
of months time.
Yeah, it's going to be great.
198
00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:21,960
Growing up you had, you
mentioned your idols when you
199
00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,160
came to Australia and you
developed through your teenage
200
00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:26,400
years etcetera.
Were there some other idols
201
00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,680
there in Australia or rugby or
sport?
202
00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:33,080
Yeah, I think probably from a
rugby point of view, you know,
203
00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,080
guys like Poe, whoops, George
Smith.
204
00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,800
George was in the red squad
actually in 2018 in my first
205
00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,280
contract year and, you know, to
be able to sort of see the
206
00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:47,760
things he does and the the
little drills and that was
207
00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:49,880
awesome.
In 2019 when I was around the
208
00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,960
Wallabies fold, Poe was there
coming back from a calf injury
209
00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,240
before the World Cup.
And just seeing the way they
210
00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:59,520
train and just being able to, to
rub sides with them is like
211
00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:01,960
really cool of, of see all those
flankers and stuff.
212
00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,800
You know, Bernie coached us for
a bit in that 2019 period and
213
00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:12,680
yeah, it's I was still probably
like pretty rugby mad back then.
214
00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,600
I think I've really come to
appreciate a lot more sports now
215
00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,200
and, you know, support the
basketball and and watch all
216
00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,440
that stuff and, and love my
cricket.
217
00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,840
But in terms of sort of Aussie
sport heroes, it was all real
218
00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,480
rugby based.
Yeah, you mentioned basketball,
219
00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:27,880
mate.
We're in the throws the playoffs
220
00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:29,120
right now.
There's been a few upsets it.
221
00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,040
Has, yeah.
Every every team that's seeded
222
00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,440
high has lost their first game.
Yeah, that's crazy.
223
00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,440
Lakers just got knocked out and
I'm a massive LeBron fan.
224
00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:39,400
Oh, right.
OK, Yeah.
225
00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,120
That's that's a bit tough.
Your thoughts on the Luca trade?
226
00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,000
Yeah, interesting where it came
from.
227
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,280
I I.
You've been a massive sort of
228
00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:50,360
LeBron and AD combo.
Yeah, hold on a second.
229
00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:51,440
What's going on?
I've got Luca.
230
00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:54,480
Just I guess you see now that
you, you still need a big and,
231
00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:59,080
and AD was that guy and it they
just didn't go all the way.
232
00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,560
So whether that's a pass or a
fail or whether they'll get
233
00:11:01,560 --> 00:11:03,920
there next year, I think you
still need more than just
234
00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,280
shooting guards and and power
forwards and stuff.
235
00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:10,080
You need that big in the centre.
And when that trade got blocked
236
00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,760
for, I think it was for Mark
Williams, it was always going to
237
00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:14,440
be a bit tough.
Right.
238
00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:18,240
We're sitting here in the early
throes of round two of the NBA
239
00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:19,680
playoffs.
I'm going to hold you to this.
240
00:11:19,680 --> 00:11:20,280
Who's your tip?
Jeez.
241
00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,880
I can't say I've been following
it, so I don't want to say
242
00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:26,560
someone who's gone out.
But, well, the Nuggets had an
243
00:11:26,560 --> 00:11:28,880
upset.
Joker got 40 points, 20 rebounds
244
00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:30,360
yesterday.
They'd been OK CI think they're
245
00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:31,600
playing again today.
Yeah, that's.
246
00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:33,080
Us.
I was going.
247
00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:36,120
To say with Jokic, hard to pick
against him.
248
00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:38,720
What about the East?
Cleveland on the attacker down
249
00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,320
to nil and Boston as well on the
other side?
250
00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:42,680
Yeah.
Can we go again?
251
00:11:42,680 --> 00:11:45,280
I still think probably Nuggets
are that, you know, I haven't
252
00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,080
watched a lot of it, but I think
once Jokic goes off and gets our
253
00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:52,000
team fire and there's hard to
stop, like, yeah, he can.
254
00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:54,360
He's caught triple doubles in
mate.
255
00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:56,160
It's.
The same back, his, his, his
256
00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:59,080
arm's like a quarterback
sometimes, you know, just throws
257
00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:00,640
it.
Yeah, quick and fast.
258
00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:02,320
You just make sure you have to
be on the receiving end and
259
00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:04,160
catch it and get it and get it
in.
260
00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,200
Yeah.
So, so rugby, when did you sort
261
00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:09,160
of work out that you were pretty
good?
262
00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:15,160
Jeez, I don't know if I've even
worked it out now.
263
00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:18,560
I think for me the whole thing
with rugby was like, I enjoyed
264
00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:23,400
it and I probably got to enjoy
it more once it became out of
265
00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,240
school.
Like it's really no one really
266
00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,560
forcing you to go to trainings
doing all that stuff.
267
00:12:28,560 --> 00:12:34,440
And my my parents moved to
Sydney from Brizzy back in 2012.
268
00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,920
So I ended up boarding for a few
years at the back end there.
269
00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:40,640
And then you sort of carry on
for school up in here with all
270
00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:42,320
your mates here.
Everything you know is up here.
271
00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:45,800
And I think that was really a
point where you go all right,
272
00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:49,400
I'm if I want to get down to
training at Ace, I've got to
273
00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,120
find a way to get there.
I've got to schedule myself and,
274
00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,280
and that's the way it's going to
be.
275
00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:56,280
If I want to play footy, it's
because I enjoy it and want to
276
00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:58,240
go through.
And that was a real big turning
277
00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,040
point for me.
Whereas I think the pressure of
278
00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,240
GPS rugby was ridiculous.
Like we end up winning the
279
00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,080
premiership undefeated but it's
only 8 games and if you lose 1
280
00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:09,240
your whole senior year is ruined
pretty much.
281
00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,760
Like so I think going back to
club was just a good way to
282
00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,960
enjoy rugby again.
Was that the year with all the
283
00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:17,800
stars in it, by the way?
The Kalen Ponger.
284
00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:21,080
And yeah, Kalen Ponger, Freddy
Krofft, Jaden Sewer.
285
00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:24,640
It's when the YouTube clip
started coming out, right?
286
00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:26,720
That was when the waterboy
started going crazy and going.
287
00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,160
Viral, is it OK?
Yeah, Kalen Ponger highlights
288
00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,160
the Yeah 3024.
There's some Liam Wright
289
00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:33,960
highlights there as well.
No, I'm in the back of Kalen
290
00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:35,080
Pong.
There's a few of them trying to
291
00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,640
clean them out but I'm not
actually didn't warrant my own
292
00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:39,200
highlights.
Real.
293
00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,640
Back then mine had some breaks.
But I think there was like a
294
00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:43,800
you've won much games by a
significant.
295
00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:48,320
Yeah, I think oh, average
scoreline was like 51 to 19 or
296
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:49,800
51.
To but then come out of school
297
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:51,680
you're like, OK, you can play
rugby if you want to or you can
298
00:13:51,680 --> 00:13:53,400
get contracted by ponger and all
this stuff.
299
00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:55,160
And then it's like, well you
don't have to.
300
00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,880
You can go to uni and be like
what normal people do is go and
301
00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,160
study or do a craft or whatever
it might be.
302
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:00,680
Yeah.
Yeah.
303
00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,160
And so came out of school,
didn't get any pathways or
304
00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:07,880
anything like that.
Go to like 48 ACE, even that was
305
00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:12,640
a sort of a harder choice.
I was at King's, studied at QT
306
00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:15,480
instead of EQ and then played 40
at ease.
307
00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:19,680
So it was kind of all over the
shop and there was a lot of sort
308
00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:21,920
of those.
I don't know if you remember
309
00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:25,680
those little calling like sports
scholarships at UQ, try and get
310
00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,760
everyone there.
Bit of a For me it was a bit of
311
00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:30,600
a just a blanket recruitment
sort of thing.
312
00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:34,080
Just take everyone and they
already had the Q1 flanker there
313
00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,120
from going to UQ.
So I was like.
314
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,000
Who's that?
Connor Maroney, he's a, he's a
315
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:40,960
He runs a podcast now, too.
Actually a good guy.
316
00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,440
Yeah, in Canada, I think
somewhere.
317
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:45,600
There you go.
What a champion.
318
00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:50,720
Champion in the industry.
Yeah, but then it was just kind
319
00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:52,680
of always like that, taking a
bit of the tougher ride.
320
00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,600
I felt like Ace was a bit more
of sort of the battlers
321
00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,240
playground where we'd go and
really have to earn your rights
322
00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,840
and earn everything you get.
And as I said, sort of didn't
323
00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,680
have a licence yet.
Was living at Kings over in
324
00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:10,480
Towong Uni QT.
And so I became a master of the
325
00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,400
public transport system or the
bus and I really had to if I
326
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,440
needed to get somewhere or
wanted to do something or was up
327
00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,480
to me to do it and really sort
of instilled that drive.
328
00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:23,560
And I guess in terms of when did
I find out I was good or for me
329
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,000
it was just can I get to the
next thing?
330
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,640
Kind of when I was playing for
Colts, can I get myself into the
331
00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:32,080
under 20s pathway?
And I sort of had a little plan
332
00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:34,920
in my head of like into the
under 20s, try to get into the
333
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,960
bench, try to get a starting
role, try to get to AUS 20s if
334
00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,800
possible and just kind of just
keep going for the next thing.
335
00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:45,400
It was never like got to end up
here at the Reds or got to end
336
00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:47,640
up at the Wallabies or.
So it was never a big hairy
337
00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:49,600
audacious goal.
It was like a step by step goal
338
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,040
going well, kind of.
Yeah, I like this.
339
00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:52,960
But if I keep going, I.
Mean it's one of those things
340
00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,040
like every kid grows up going or
a lot of kids grow up going.
341
00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,880
I'll love to play rugby for a
career and I remember some
342
00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:02,720
teacher or someone was like,
yeah, but that's not realistic.
343
00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,120
Like one in 500.
It's true.
344
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,760
It's kind of.
Opposed to and yeah, but it's
345
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:10,560
that sort of was like.
Dampening.
346
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:11,960
Expected like pushing idea you
should.
347
00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:15,160
Change or go from mate?
Yeah, it made you not want to go
348
00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,160
out like I'm gonna be a pro
rugby player or something like
349
00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,040
that.
It was just like, oh maybe that
350
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,400
isn't achievable, but what is
achievable is maybe make the
351
00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:25,440
next step up or.
Yeah, I kind of feel like that's
352
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,120
a quashing, A quashing statement
as opposed to a supportive
353
00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:28,840
statement.
Yeah, it is.
354
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:30,920
Yeah.
You want to say, like, I want to
355
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,200
be a lawyer?
Like, well, you know, only a few
356
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:34,680
people become lawyer.
No, hold on a second.
357
00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:35,440
Yeah.
Exactly.
358
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,080
Go for it and we'll support you
a lawyer.
359
00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,480
Yeah, exactly.
And that I guess that then just
360
00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:41,960
turned it into, all right, well,
don't need to broadcast it that
361
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:46,680
like that'd be awesome.
But go back, study as well.
362
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:50,240
Do all those things.
And that was kind of always,
363
00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:52,440
it's something that my parents
instilled as well.
364
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,560
It's like, yeah, you can
whatever you want to do, do it
365
00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,840
hard, enjoy it.
And so that meant do the study
366
00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:03,120
full time, work for work as
well, get some casual jobs and
367
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:07,240
and some keep and just keep
cracking along with the rugby if
368
00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,760
if that's what you want to do.
And it was just a bit of a
369
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:11,880
stepping stone process.
And that's why I say, I don't
370
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,760
know if I've ever gone like I'm
really, really good at this.
371
00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:18,680
And it's just I've put in the
work and done a bit of a grind
372
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,720
and just stepped up along the
way and learnt a lot.
373
00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,280
Now you've been on a few
podcasts and this is your first
374
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,160
in person podcast game.
Welcome.
375
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:29,880
I'm sure you may not have had
this question before.
376
00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:34,160
How did you balance the off
field shenanigans at Ace versus
377
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:38,240
the on field?
I think probably luckily enough
378
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:42,400
it was.
It didn't really turn into a
379
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:48,920
full blown rugby Korea any of
that until after I think I've
380
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:52,560
got a Goodyear of Colts footy.
Getting it out of your system of
381
00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:56,040
just you finished playing at
12:30, you go righto boys, where
382
00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:57,560
are we landing?
Where are we hitting the beers
383
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:03,800
and did that week in week out,
just about for the full year.
384
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,880
And then during the week you go
go to the gym, go for your runs,
385
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:11,560
go training, go work, go labour.
You get up most mornings at 5:00
386
00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:15,520
AM, go do labouring and mow some
lawns or you know, put some
387
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,280
walls together.
Do whatever you need to make.
388
00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,680
Some keep, as you see, yeah.
Make some keep and you know, I
389
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:24,000
worked at my dad, my mate's
dad's news agency, just whatever
390
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,120
you I worked at East painting
the lines.
391
00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:28,840
The bottom line there?
Was a lot of squiggly lines
392
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,080
there for a while and just do
what you can and it and it was
393
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,920
kind of for me it was.
The field is a bit kind of
394
00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:36,240
cornered.
It's like, oh, Liam came a
395
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,880
little bit late to work and all
of a sudden it's not the
396
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:39,840
straight line.
Is that right?
397
00:18:40,360 --> 00:18:41,720
The line has, oh, we did the
best.
398
00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,360
Where's the try line?
We were we by no means
399
00:18:44,360 --> 00:18:47,800
professionals on we took the
buggy and threw the footy around
400
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,440
while we were on on call.
And, but I think it was just for
401
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:53,920
me, it was really that freeing
sort of nature of that first
402
00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,480
year out of school of like
there's a lot of pressure on
403
00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:01,360
your OP, on your trying to win
the GPS premiership, trying to
404
00:19:01,360 --> 00:19:02,920
get into a, some sort of
pathway.
405
00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,840
And almost when that was over,
it was like, all right, we'll go
406
00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:10,320
back to just enjoying what you
do a bit and you'd hang with
407
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,000
your mates, you'd, you'd still
get everything you need to done.
408
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,960
And I think that was just a
really good year of and, and I
409
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,560
think that enjoyment factor
really played into me playing
410
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,240
really good footy again, as I
sort of said back at school, I
411
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,080
was, I was in the back of
Kaylin's highlights.
412
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,960
I was just doing line outs and
breakdowns and I didn't really
413
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,560
develop that much.
And I think that first year was
414
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:33,080
really like, I'm loving this,
like playing with my mates, go a
415
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,200
few beers afterwards, go labour
during the week.
416
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:40,760
I still get uni and do all that.
It's fun, like everything's fun
417
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:43,360
at the moment and sort of played
well off the back of that.
418
00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:48,640
And then it from there I guess
once then at the end of that
419
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:50,840
year of playing good footy
consistently for a whole club
420
00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,400
season, got into the under 20s
pathway.
421
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,320
I still remember Squab calling
me and like, we'd love to have
422
00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,960
you in and I was like, awesome.
That's like, I guess that little
423
00:19:59,960 --> 00:20:04,360
tick in the box of where each in
the next step and yeah, go from
424
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,440
there.
I'm curious to know your
425
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:10,760
relationship with fun, with
rugby then then sort of the
426
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,240
pathways and you're having fun
and then all of a sudden you you
427
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:18,080
get money like it's a job.
Does anything change on that
428
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:19,480
front?
Obviously it becomes a bit more
429
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:21,640
quite unquote serious.
Yeah, definitely.
430
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:26,040
And that's why I say I think I
was lucky that I almost got a
431
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,200
lot of that out of my system
before it became a job or
432
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,120
anything like that.
And the same with I nearly just
433
00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:35,680
about finished my first uni
degree by the time I got my
434
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,800
first contract.
Like it still took me so four or
435
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,760
five years after school to get
my first contract and had to
436
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:43,720
play 2018.
Yeah.
437
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,440
And you know, I played in the
under 20s for two years and
438
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:47,880
played the oldest 20s for two
years.
439
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,600
And in that sort of second year,
I managed to play really well.
440
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:55,240
I got those 20s player of the
year and that sort of was the
441
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,440
final catalyst to be like,
here's a contract.
442
00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,080
Is that the Manila folder you
put across to?
443
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,480
The yeah yeah Yeah show.
Us your highlights and you're
444
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:02,560
like, I've got one thing for
you.
445
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,480
Yeah, I've got this little block
here and.
446
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:07,000
Little trophy.
Yeah.
447
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:10,240
And I mean it was tough to get a
contract at all.
448
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,400
So I think my first year
contract was 10 grand and
449
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:15,880
there's that for the first year.
And but you get to train with
450
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:18,360
the squad and that's, yeah, what
you get to meet enjoying, you
451
00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:20,120
get to do that.
And you met George Smith, right?
452
00:21:20,120 --> 00:21:21,440
I met.
George Smith, Yeah, Ruined with
453
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,640
him once.
And did he sort of not know who
454
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:24,760
you were and you knew not at
all?
455
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,040
So you're like, does he say, oh
g'day, I'm George.
456
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:28,280
You're like, you know, Chichela.
Yeah, Yeah.
457
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:30,120
Yeah, I know.
Yeah, I know.
458
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,080
And does he knows his name now?
Yeah, I think so.
459
00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:34,880
I hope he remembers him.
Yeah.
460
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:36,320
What did you say to him in the
first meet?
461
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,480
I remember I think I was just
like, hey George, that's
462
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,560
probably quite just tackles this
when I told my mates for all the
463
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,320
guys I was living with.
So yeah.
464
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,400
And then the first, the first
game for the Reds 2018 you
465
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,680
mentioned, Yep.
Do you want to talk about that
466
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,520
experience and putting that
jersey on and getting out there
467
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:59,760
and playing, you know, rugby for
a living, for a state with all
468
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,920
eyes on you as opposed to a
little bit of Colts at East
469
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,120
where there might have been a
few, you know, 20 bucks and 20
470
00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:08,920
girls watching.
Yeah, it was really done up.
471
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,120
There were 20 girls back at East
watching us back then, right?
472
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,080
20 people.
Yeah, but yeah, it was, it was
473
00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:16,000
really cool.
It was.
474
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:21,240
I still think that that whole
between fun and work and job and
475
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:25,640
stuff, like I still don't
consider any of what I do really
476
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:27,360
work.
Like, I don't say I've got to go
477
00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:30,360
to work, go to training, like
I'm going to go to the gym or
478
00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:33,600
going for a run or like it's
still that element of like
479
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,840
really lucky to do this.
And I think those first few
480
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:40,560
years especially was again,
didn't really consider it like,
481
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:41,760
oh, now I'm getting paid to do
this.
482
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:45,600
Things got to change.
I think for me, it probably took
483
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,880
more of a toll of once I started
getting the string of injuries,
484
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,960
that's when I was like, all
right, it's not always going to
485
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,000
be as smooth as the first few.
Like I think I played, you know,
486
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:59,720
47 Super Rugby games just about
straight, like apart from one or
487
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:01,880
two where I wasn't picked and
sort of first year.
488
00:23:02,360 --> 00:23:06,720
And it was just, it's like, this
is just how it goes.
489
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,600
Like you're here now and that's
the way it works.
490
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:10,640
And that's pretty easy.
And then I think once all the
491
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,640
injuries started happening,
that's when I took a bit more of
492
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:16,400
like, all right, well, if you do
want to get better and keep
493
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,560
growing and, and stay here,
that's when you actually got to
494
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:21,960
sacrifice a bit more.
And I think that's when I took a
495
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:26,400
lot more personally the not not
in terms of not having fun, but
496
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,360
in terms of what you're willing
to sacrifice.
497
00:23:28,360 --> 00:23:33,000
And maybe part of that was, you
know, go out sober or I'll not
498
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,280
get on the pistol my mates or
I'm going to miss the 21st or
499
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,080
I'm going to miss one of those
things.
500
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,920
And and that's really probably
where a bit of the maturity got
501
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:45,200
forced into me just through
through a bit of unluckiness
502
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,920
with with injury.
And it's that resilience muscle,
503
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,360
I think where you talk about
where you don't want to go
504
00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:53,840
through all that stuff.
But I feel like I'm definitely a
505
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,040
better athlete and better
professional now because of
506
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,680
that.
And I still think it's fun, but
507
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,240
it's then you sacrifice a few
other things in terms of what
508
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,280
you really want and you realise
what you really want to do and
509
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,960
that this isn't a given and this
isn't taken for granted.
510
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,880
And you've actually got to do a
few things differently if you
511
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,920
want to keep doing this and stay
here and get to your potential.
512
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,560
And some say that's not like the
price of entry, right, of being
513
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,600
a professional sports person.
But then you also you probably
514
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,560
need a support crew around that
to kind of, you know, support
515
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:28,720
you to say we back you and you
missed my 21st or my wedding or
516
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:30,880
whatever it might be to pursue
your thing.
517
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:32,760
But that's OK.
Like you have that, you have a
518
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:34,960
few people like that.
Definitely, yeah, as I've sort
519
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,920
of said before, all my extended
families back in South Africa,
520
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,640
so it's sort of mum, dad, myself
and my sister.
521
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:44,440
But they're also in Sydney so
they're not sort of can't just
522
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,920
go there for Sunday dinner and
wash my clothes and that sort of
523
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,840
thing.
So I've been living in a share
524
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:53,560
house with pretty much the same
group of guys since the end of
525
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:58,240
2016, and it was pretty much the
three or four of us plus ±1 or
526
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:03,640
two until late last year.
I think like probably the
527
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,920
longest lasting share house in a
long time.
528
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,200
We went about 8 years.
And yeah, they're my best mates.
529
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,840
It's my missus now.
Jokes that guys, they just get a
530
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:14,720
few friends when they're younger
and go, yeah, that'll do that.
531
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,560
Don't need any more friends and
keep the same crew.
532
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,840
And that's kind of us like we
just really bounced off each
533
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,080
other and with not having sort
of extended family.
534
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:25,760
And then my actual family is
down there.
535
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,360
I'm big believer in family is
your friends and the friends
536
00:25:29,360 --> 00:25:31,720
that you choose as well and just
the people who look out out for
537
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,000
you.
And yeah, I think without them,
538
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:36,360
they're sort of staring me a
bit.
539
00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:39,080
There's been a few times where I
go, is it worth it?
540
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,560
Like, you know, I don't get to
do what you guys do all the time
541
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,840
and go and do all the, you know,
the, the fun stuff.
542
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:47,720
Is it worth it?
And they'd sort of steam me back
543
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,160
on the skid.
And yeah.
544
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,840
Do you think you were the first
ever Wallaby captain living in a
545
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,240
share house?
I don't know.
546
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:02,680
I don't know.
I don't know, but it's I, I
547
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,760
loved that sort of in.
This modern day era of bright
548
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,320
lights and money and Instagram
and you're like, I hear my
549
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:09,880
mates, we've been living for
eight years, it's the same
550
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:11,720
thing.
And he's pretty good at lasagna,
551
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:13,360
and I'm pretty good at the
risotto and all that.
552
00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:15,200
Sort of stuff, yeah.
And you split your bills in
553
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,480
there, really.
Yeah, that split the bills.
554
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,080
I had to my news resolution one
year where you talk about sort
555
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,200
of the sacrifices was tell them,
hey guys, I'm I'm not going to
556
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:25,480
be cooking with you guys
anymore.
557
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,000
I'm going to be going out on my
own event because we'd, yeah,
558
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,920
those first few years and
probably when I realised I
559
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,000
needed to start putting on some
weight and some proper muscle
560
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,360
and I was like, I can't wait
until 9:00 PM to eat dinner for
561
00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:40,080
while you guys play Xbox and
that sort of thing.
562
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:45,440
So yeah, again, just the
sacrifice you make of I need to
563
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,480
kind of eat at six and then eat
again at 9:00 if I'm going to
564
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,680
put some weight on and take this
seriously and get a bit better.
565
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,400
And again, they were like, yeah,
cool man, do what you need to do
566
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,320
and they'll still there for a
good yarn.
567
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,120
And a lot I actually liked.
I think that helped because the
568
00:27:02,120 --> 00:27:06,320
whole balance of going between
quite an intense environment
569
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:07,920
where you're always, everyone's
trying to be better, you're
570
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,360
competing against everyone.
And then you come home and it
571
00:27:10,360 --> 00:27:12,640
might tell you about some crazy
stuff that happened on the work
572
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,840
side at labouring or whatever
happened in their day.
573
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,000
And it's just really good
balance and a shift of
574
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,160
perspective.
Did you send them a text to me
575
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,240
now and then and say, mate, I'm
I can't come home for dinner,
576
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:24,800
I'm just playing for the
Wallabies.
577
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:27,280
And by the way, if you want to
watch it, switch it on.
578
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:28,280
They can.
Nah, Nah, we've got, we've got
579
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:29,560
this Netflix series we're
watching.
580
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,480
Yeah, Oh yeah, mate, that
happened a lot the, the big
581
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:33,800
times.
You come home, your bed's gone,
582
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:34,960
mate, and you're like, what's
going on?
583
00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:37,720
Oh yeah, someone stayed over the
other night and I let them sleep
584
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,240
in your bed because you weren't
there for a few weeks and yeah,
585
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,760
Rudder, whatever.
Yeah, we're we're all pretty
586
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:45,760
close.
So you just, that's just the way
587
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:47,880
it went.
And the leadership side of
588
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:49,920
rugby, you were thrown in pretty
early as captain.
589
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,240
Is there something that you've
always been and wanted to to do
590
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,800
is sort of focus a little bit on
leadership and has that sort of
591
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:57,800
evolved naturally?
Do you think you're a natural
592
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,520
leader?
Yeah, I think I'm probably a
593
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,240
natural leader and I'd probably
only say that because it wasn't
594
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,280
really everything, anything that
I wanted.
595
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:11,440
Like I didn't go seeking it.
I didn't, you know, when it sort
596
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,840
of got handed to me in 2020,
that was like, you know, put
597
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,320
your hand up if you want to be
in line for captain next year.
598
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:18,920
And I didn't put my hand up,
mate.
599
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,520
And probably not because I
didn't think I'd be good at it
600
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,760
or anything, but just because
I've always thought it's like
601
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,760
it's up to the squad to pick who
you sort of want and who
602
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:30,960
represents and reflects what
you're about a bit more.
603
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,000
And so I never really went
searching for it.
604
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,920
When it came, I sort of went,
well, that's that's big and I
605
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,640
wanted to do it justice.
And I think then I put a lot
606
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,160
more time into trying to develop
areas of that.
607
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,160
And initially when I first got
it, I think I spent too much
608
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:51,520
time on like, how does how do I
have to do things differently to
609
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,560
be the leader that and then
after a while probably wants
610
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,080
COVID to happen.
I sort of went, all right, I
611
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,360
wasn't playing as good footy
because I was putting too much
612
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,640
emphasis on the leadership side
of it and not letting my game do
613
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,360
the talking.
And I think that's when I
614
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,080
probably took a bit more of a
backseat and win.
615
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,000
All right, well, actually got
chosen for a reason, not doing
616
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,680
anything out of the ordinary
other than just the person you
617
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,760
are.
And that's kind of what it went
618
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,880
back to a little bit of just be
a natural self of a resilient
619
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,000
guy.
You're, you're a hard worker.
620
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,360
And people obviously took some,
some luck to that and some
621
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:28,640
following to that.
And yeah, but but I did want to
622
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,800
definitely grow that aspect.
And that's where even the UNI
623
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,520
side, I picked up a masters of,
of a business, Masters of
624
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,520
business majoring in management,
which had a lot of parallels to
625
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:42,040
sort of leadership and all that
stuff.
626
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:46,480
And I really enjoyed same with
the study thing the whole way
627
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,200
along, just trying to whatever I
was doing, as my parents sort of
628
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,440
said, whatever I was doing, I
wanted to do it really well.
629
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,320
And so even that leadership
aspect and the captaincy aspect
630
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,000
was like, well, how can I get a
little bit better there?
631
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:58,880
Or how can I grow my leadership
or how can I do that?
632
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,280
And would read a lot of books
about sports leaders or business
633
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:06,160
leaders and do that sort of
stuff and listen to podcasts and
634
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,080
just pick up as much information
as I can and then try and make
635
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,120
the best decision with it.
How would you define yourself
636
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:17,000
now as a leader?
I think I'm probably a lot more
637
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,600
comfortable taking a bit of a
backseat.
638
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:24,760
Like I think, I think I've gone
from, you know, having to, to
639
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,480
speak a lot early on and try and
do that to I think I'm
640
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,280
definitely a lead by example or
a lead by action sort of guy.
641
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:36,280
And so I think now I trust the
people around me a lot more, let
642
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,840
them do their thing.
And, and I think I know how to
643
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,520
pick the right time of when I
need to inject and when I don't
644
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:47,960
just based on has what's been
needed to say been said.
645
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,480
And if it has, then doesn't need
to come out of my mouth.
646
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,680
And then that way when I do
speak, it'll have a greater
647
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:57,040
impact.
And I think just you learn that
648
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,800
as well when you're off the
field injured, that you can't
649
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:01,800
just be the only voice.
Otherwise when you're gone, it
650
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:06,400
just becomes a mess.
And so just being a bit more
651
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:10,200
selective and when I really try
to impact through that way.
652
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,960
So a bit more delegation, let
things be.
653
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,440
But then when, when it's needed,
you come in and you say, right,
654
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,920
this is what I think now.
Yeah, yeah, a little bit so.
655
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,040
Let things dictate themselves
because he's a grown man you're
656
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:21,960
playing with.
Exactly.
657
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,200
They've got the skills, they
don't need to be told.
658
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,000
I make you sure to call that
stuff like that.
659
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,280
Definitely, yeah.
And as I said, I'm a naturally
660
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,320
a, a lead by example kind of
guy.
661
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,720
I'm not the loudest in the
group, I'm not the not the
662
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,320
funniest in the group, all that
sort of thing.
663
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:41,800
So it's it's around a big thing
Thorny sort of taught me and I
664
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,080
guess that I always knew and
learned from my parents, but
665
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,560
then really understood in the
rugby and professional setting
666
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,440
was make sure your own backyards
in order before you ask anyone
667
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,960
else to do anything.
And again, I think a lot of my
668
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,040
leadership growth came actually
through these injuries and
669
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:58,600
through the resilience I had to
show there.
670
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,840
And so without being able to
directly impact the team, how
671
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,080
can I show the team that this is
the way forward or this is what
672
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,880
we've got to do?
And it's being super diligent by
673
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,640
making sure I'm owning
everything I can, my
674
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,240
preparations, the best it can be
said.
675
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,280
You cut outgoing on the piss
more.
676
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,240
You read books, are in sleep,
read all that stuff.
677
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,680
Just whatever I could do to try
and make sure that I was owning
678
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,080
what I was going to do to get
back on the field as quickly as
679
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,880
possible.
So Kebby Hall's biggest point as
680
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,320
well to me when I was injured
was, you know, the best thing
681
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,400
you can do for the team is get
yourself back out there for the
682
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,920
team.
And so you have to really focus
683
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:37,600
on what you're going to do to
get back out there.
684
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:42,840
And yeah, I guess then you can
put in your two cents because it
685
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,680
carries a lot more worth.
I'm interested to know when you
686
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,560
do the prep, you get everything
right, you're feeling good and
687
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,920
you go out and you probably play
a really good game yourself, but
688
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:54,440
your team gets pumped.
How do you feel?
689
00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:00,640
I think again, just the
development of my career is at
690
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:05,200
the start you're like at least I
sort of did my best and sort of
691
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,640
put my best foot forward and I
can get selected again next
692
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:09,960
week.
And then as you sort of get a
693
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:11,680
bit more older and probably a
bit more.
694
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:14,720
I mean you're 80 odd games
through aren't.
695
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:20,440
You yeah, and probably you get a
bit more wiggle wiggle room for
696
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,160
coaches in terms of, you know,
you might have a get bad game on
697
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,560
weeks, but you've got the
history, you've got the sort of
698
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,200
experience there and that's when
you become a lot more as a
699
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,480
leader as well.
I might have played awesome, but
700
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,320
yes, we didn't function or the
line out didn't function or
701
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,760
we're just not playing to the
our potential or what's the
702
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:40,880
issue they had or we fix it.
And that keeps you up a lot more
703
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:42,960
than like, jeez, I missed a
tackle.
704
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,080
And you can sort of live with
that because again, you've done
705
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,480
as much preparation as you can
personally to get yourself to
706
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,160
performing out on the field or
that's kind of my mantra.
707
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:56,080
It's like I can I can live with
messing up if I've done the
708
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,440
work, if I did the preparation,
if I did my tackles during the
709
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,760
week and it just didn't come off
sort of thing.
710
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,280
That's when the leadership side
of it and the just the team
711
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,280
isn't quite where we need to be.
What's that?
712
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:10,880
And you know, Titan, I would
talk a lot.
713
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:15,080
We'd be texting, calling all the
time after games we'd be and
714
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,239
talking to the coaches and
trying to get ahead of that for
715
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,960
the next week on.
And you know, that's a tiring
716
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,960
process as well.
So it's I'd say it's probably
717
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,719
harder now having to worry more
about the team than about your
718
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,159
own individual performance the
whole time.
719
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,120
Co captaincy the Lions
experimented with it and with
720
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,120
Harris Sanders looking Neil and
it and it sort of was kind of a
721
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:39,400
bit new in the AFL, in rugby.
You and Tate Co captaincy.
722
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,440
Talk at me about that.
The dynamic, the relationship
723
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,360
you have with Tate, the sort of
ups and downs, who does what
724
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,960
delegation, but also you're part
of the same team.
725
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,639
Yeah, sort of sort of back, sort
of forwards as well.
726
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,080
Yeah, yeah, I think it's worked
really well.
727
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,320
I think probably when we
started, we weren't all that
728
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,280
sure.
But again, I've, you know, been
729
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,920
injured for large parts of the
last few years.
730
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:07,120
And so it's it's kind of been a
blessing in disguise in that way
731
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,040
of having that leader that's
still on the field and helping
732
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,280
develop other leaders as well.
But I think Teddy and I
733
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:14,640
compliment each other really
well.
734
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,360
We were good mates in our sort
of similar friendship group
735
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:21,400
within the team prior to all
that happening.
736
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:28,320
And I think, you know, he's back
on the forward rugby's as a
737
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,200
simple game, but there's also a
lot of complexities within sort
738
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,880
of the understanding of really
how to impact different aspects
739
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:36,920
of it.
And so I can take a bit more of
740
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,200
an ownership around that line
out and that forward capability
741
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,000
and then he can do the backs and
the attacking wise, more of a
742
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,040
defensive plays more of an
attacking player.
743
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,880
You know, he's quite a an
emotional, fierce guy,
744
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,240
passionate guy as well.
Whereas I'm probably more calm.
745
00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:54,440
Reasoning, logic, just think we
bounce off each other.
746
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,200
And then as we've sort of learnt
over the years, when that
747
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,520
changes and I get a bit
redheaded and, and bit hot, he
748
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,200
comes in with the calming 1 and
we've just learned how to sort
749
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,640
of read the room.
If the coaches are going hot and
750
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,440
heavy, we know how to bring it
back down to because this is
751
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,960
what we need to do.
If the coaches are very, this is
752
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:12,720
the plan, this is the plan, but
we're not getting arrested.
753
00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:15,760
And then we can go emotional and
try and get that rise out of the
754
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,560
boys.
And it's just been again, good
755
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,560
growth, good learning.
And I think it's it's not that
756
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,120
popular, it's not that necessary
because probably the hardest
757
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,120
part of it is when you're Co
captains and you're sort of
758
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,200
saying it's who has the final
say that sort of stuff.
759
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,960
But in terms of how many
different roles and different
760
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,840
things you have to manage and
different captaincy aspects.
761
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,120
You know, even before the game,
Tate is 1/2 back off and needs
762
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,600
to get out there real early, do
his kicking, do his passing, do
763
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,280
all his basics before he then
joins in on individual warm up
764
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:49,400
and team stuff.
So I'd nail the coin toss.
765
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:53,440
I go and talk to the refs and I
become the major voice there and
766
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:57,640
he can be freer to do that and
then it's just picking up the
767
00:36:57,640 --> 00:36:59,440
loads where where the other one
needs it to.
768
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:03,360
I think it's been good.
It's organically worked really,
769
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,920
really well.
I'm also interested around the
770
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,480
successful teams that you've
been in, the 2021 team that won
771
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,480
the the Super Rugby programme
and then also the Wallabies and
772
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,000
you've played a few games, six
games or so.
773
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,920
And then and then sort of a
different culture again,
774
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,560
Wallabies versus Queensland, but
the successful teams that you've
775
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,720
played and what do you think the
successful teams have done right
776
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:26,440
versus the teams that have
finished bottom?
777
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,040
I think there's probably been a
greater understanding of how we
778
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,160
want to play and what kind of
team we want to be.
779
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:37,280
And it becomes a lot easier to
own that role and own that
780
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,240
accountability and, and be able
to pull each other off when you
781
00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:42,640
need to or, or encourage each
other when you need to, when you
782
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:46,760
know what you're trying to do.
And that's, you know, something
783
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,240
I've really noticed probably
probably last year, we were
784
00:37:49,240 --> 00:37:53,080
really, really clear on our on
our detail, on our roles on, on
785
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,160
how we want to end up on what we
want to grow in our game.
786
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,200
You know, and you see that with
probably the Wallabies under
787
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,520
judgement as well, how they've
really grown really, really
788
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,880
clear on this is the type of
team we want to play.
789
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,440
This is a sort of breakdown.
We want to be, this is how we
790
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,480
want to manage games, win them
out, close them out, that sort
791
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,200
of thing.
I think it's a lot easier and
792
00:38:14,240 --> 00:38:16,720
more to be successful when you
understand what you're trying to
793
00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:18,240
be.
When you just sort of float
794
00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:22,000
around and go with the flow and
and you know, hope that you
795
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,200
don't get exposed or hope that
this works against this team and
796
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,320
this doesn't.
When you're a lot more clear
797
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,960
around your role and your style
of play.
798
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:33,160
Think same with anything really.
You can.
799
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:34,640
You can be a bit more confident
in it.
800
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,360
Yeah, there's a song called I'm
on the Road to Nowhere.
801
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,200
You know, if you don't know
where you're going, it's pretty
802
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,800
hard to kind of define your
goal.
803
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:43,040
How do you know when you get
there or not?
804
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:43,960
Yeah.
Yeah.
805
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,960
And so Speaking of goals, and
you've sort of touched on it
806
00:38:47,240 --> 00:38:49,760
earlier when you were sort of
saying, oh, if I make the bench,
807
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,960
I might then make the starting
line up and now you're you're in
808
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:53,720
the process of recovery from an
injury.
809
00:38:53,720 --> 00:38:58,120
Have you got a goal in mind?
Honestly the only goal at the
810
00:38:58,120 --> 00:38:59,400
moment is to get back playing
footy.
811
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:04,960
It's it's prior to this, all the
injuries I've had have been
812
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,600
pretty sort of tough injuries
and big injuries and stuff, but
813
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,520
reasonably smooth along the way.
This is probably the first real
814
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,080
big one I've had that just
hasn't gone to plan multiple,
815
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,760
multiple times.
I've had three surgeries on this
816
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,560
shoulder since that injury
against Wales, trying to sort of
817
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,440
figure out what's happening and
get everything working the way
818
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:28,240
it should and it just not
cooperating as easily as it has
819
00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:30,800
in the past.
And so I guess the only goal is
820
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:35,680
to get back playing footy
because I think as we sort of
821
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,520
speak about the team stuff, I'm
a lot more confident in what I
822
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,880
can bring to a team now and what
I sort of assert as a player and
823
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,600
as a leader.
And so I feel that if I can get
824
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,000
myself healthy and get myself
back playing, then the rest will
825
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,040
take care of itself because of
the years and years of work and
826
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:52,680
preparation you've done up to
that point.
827
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:56,200
And so the only goal is to get
the shoulder working and playing
828
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,640
again.
We've got a big rugby schedule
829
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:00,840
over the next coming years in
Australia.
830
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:06,000
Grassroots rugby is probably at
a tough spot and and
831
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,600
participation rates and rugby
per SE in the competition
832
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,480
landscape between AFLNRL and
other sports etcetera.
833
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:19,000
Keen to hear your views on rugby
per SE as a junior level and
834
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,000
also what you've gone through.
You didn't really go through the
835
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,960
traditional pathways and coming
from South Africa, but is there
836
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,240
something which you know you
would like to see rugby in a
837
00:40:27,240 --> 00:40:30,880
couple of years?
Yeah, I think it's such a hard
838
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,920
one because grassroots produces
the top level, but the top level
839
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,160
funds the grassroots level and
and that's where the other
840
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,000
sports like AFL and NRL really
hovered over us and that
841
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:42,800
generates so much money that
they can really pump that into
842
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,320
grassroots.
At the top, filtering to the
843
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,760
bottom to get back to it.
Right down to then Yep, Yep,
844
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,040
feed up and which.
Comes at a board level and it
845
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,240
comes at a management level then
as well, as opposed to players
846
00:40:53,240 --> 00:40:55,800
playing and performance as well.
Yeah, which is why I think this
847
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,440
next few years with the with the
Lions and the World Cup and then
848
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,320
the Women's World Cup after that
is just going to be so
849
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:02,600
important.
Like you can see the way the
850
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:04,920
women's game has grown with a
bit more investment in the game,
851
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:10,400
and that comes off the back of
probably the 7th success, yeah.
852
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,160
We've had Bella Nasrin recently,
actually on the podcast, yeah,
853
00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:15,560
she's sort of half migrating to
the 15 game as well, because
854
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,000
there's opportunities and World
Cups, etcetera.
855
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:19,960
Yeah, it's exciting.
So I think the next few years
856
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:24,240
are, I don't think it's as dire
as probably do or die, but I
857
00:41:24,240 --> 00:41:27,920
think if we mismanage this next
few years, it's hard to come
858
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,000
back from.
So I think the board and Rugby
859
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,880
Australia is doing a much better
job of actually controlling our
860
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,600
finances and bringing ourselves
back into actually, hey, let's
861
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,960
become a bit more of a business
so that we can keep doing the
862
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,160
thing we love and our purpose of
making rugby grade in Australia.
863
00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:48,720
But goes back to that grassroots
of they want more attention and
864
00:41:48,720 --> 00:41:51,200
they want more.
They want to see more of a slice
865
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,520
of the pie, I think.
And I think that's so necessary
866
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:57,440
because you go to those clubs
and so many volunteers and so
867
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,840
many people just doing their
best to try and keep everyone
868
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:02,280
afloat until they get to that
level.
869
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,400
And then, you know, you look at
the NRL just come in and sweep
870
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:09,040
them or something like that.
It's, it's a very hard problem
871
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:10,360
to combat.
And I don't know the full
872
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:15,760
answer, but I think the top
level of the game owes it to the
873
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:19,400
grassroots to really treat this
next few years seriously and and
874
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:24,680
get results that'll turn into
financial freedom to reinvest,
875
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,280
create that cycle that the other
sports have gone really well.
876
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,360
And as a kid you were growing up
and you saw these idols and you
877
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,720
wanted to get the autograph
probably pre selfie days.
878
00:42:32,720 --> 00:42:35,960
But now, now being a player
yourself and people look up to
879
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,760
you and they know your name.
How do you go about and managing
880
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,200
that yourself?
Yeah, it's it's, I mean, I think
881
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,080
you want to try and give back as
much as you can.
882
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,160
I was down at East last night
with under fourteens.
883
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,160
They're trying to help out, but
it's also a weird one because
884
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:55,200
you don't see yourself as some
hotshot celebrity or autograph
885
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:57,080
giver or the same.
As sports, yeah.
886
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,520
Yeah, kind of the same, same as
when when you were younger and
887
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:03,960
you'd be like, oh, that's that
guy and that's awesome.
888
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,360
And I want to, it doesn't then
translate to like, I'm that guy
889
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,760
now and I go, but you know, you
do the best you can, you try and
890
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,960
help out where you can.
Our our group at the Reds is
891
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:15,480
really, really good at that
around.
892
00:43:15,720 --> 00:43:18,360
So many of them go back to their
clubs, they help out, they're
893
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,840
happy to do promos, they're
happy to talk to people, take
894
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:23,560
photos at the airport, all that
sort of stuff.
895
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:24,600
Like they're really, really
good.
896
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,680
And that's I think that was
probably installed a lot through
897
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:31,480
Thorny in the early days of just
being a role model, showing care
898
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:34,160
for the club and the jersey and
the people that you represent.
899
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:36,440
Did a lot of those register
regions stuff.
900
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,280
I don't know if you saw, but
going out to country towns and
901
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:41,520
country places where the rugby
probably doesn't reach that
902
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,720
often outside of southeast
Queensland and just trying to
903
00:43:44,720 --> 00:43:46,400
give back, like not go there to
take.
904
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,960
And you get a lot of good stuff
and cool stuff as a professional
905
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,520
player now, but it's actually
just giving back and helping and
906
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,080
giving you time.
And I think that's filtered
907
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,120
through a lot of the guys and
and just kept in their nature
908
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,280
where they want to help as much
as they can.
909
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:07,560
But it's again, it comes down to
the game probably needs a bit
910
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:09,560
more help than just a
professional player going down
911
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:11,520
and holding some pads that are
at a thing.
912
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:15,920
We need the whole game to get an
order and then that becomes so
913
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:17,200
much more meaningful, I think
and.
914
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,840
Particularly with social media,
except for some of these teenage
915
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,760
kids and whatever can follow
their idols and, and see them
916
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,320
and they're probably a little
bit more well known and well
917
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,040
followed than than idols these
days.
918
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:30,640
So it's interesting that you,
you mentioned that.
919
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,280
How do you go with all that sort
of stuff as well with the the
920
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:35,600
idea of that wherever you go and
you're having a beer or you're
921
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:37,360
having a coffee, someone might
take a snap of you.
922
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,400
Yeah, that's, that's probably a
weird thing to consider.
923
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,760
You know, I'm not amazing on the
social media and stuff.
924
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:46,840
I sometimes wish I was.
You see the guys who can really
925
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,360
plug up sponsors and do all that
stuff and just make a really
926
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:51,920
I'm.
At the gym, I'm at the Cafe, my
927
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:53,920
favourite restaurant.
Exactly like he's.
928
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:55,480
Me cuddling my kids.
Oh wow, you.
929
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,120
Know yeah yeah and create that
life that people want to follow
930
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:03,000
these days that's not exactly me
and my style but you know it is
931
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:07,360
weird you go down to a younger
team and and try and help them
932
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,960
out and they go I sent you a
message request or will you
933
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,600
follow me back and like that's
the new thing of like, you know
934
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,120
so and so's following.
Autograph on a piece of paper
935
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:18,560
that you found that your parents
in the in the handbag back in I
936
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:20,920
down on the gum.
You're like, is there something
937
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:22,080
you've got that I can get an
autograph?
938
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:24,160
From yeah, but now it's at
school, they're showing who
939
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:26,400
follows them back from the boys
that they messaged.
940
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:30,240
And yeah, it's a weird one, but
I mean, I think we're, we're
941
00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:34,560
quite in a way, we're quite
lucky up here in Queensland
942
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:38,160
where, you know, you don't have
the sort of cult following that
943
00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:40,640
that leagues do where you, you
go to the shops and you're
944
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:42,720
getting hounded and doing that
you, you see.
945
00:45:42,720 --> 00:45:44,320
All the Collingwood players in
Melbourne.
946
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:46,080
AFL players at an.
Airport or something?
947
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:47,640
Yeah.
They go outside, they're getting
948
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,440
hounded and they're getting and
hounded's the wrong word.
949
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:53,960
But generally you got phones,
you got paparazzi in your face.
950
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:57,080
Whereas up here it's if you get
sort of called, it's actually
951
00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:01,120
like, oh wow, they follow rugby,
they want rugby to do well, you
952
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,040
give me a time any, any day of
the week so.
953
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:04,440
Yeah, they're showing you some
love you can show.
954
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,760
Them some love there so.
Just touching on sport there for
955
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:09,920
a second, I'm going to ask you
about your all time favourite
956
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:14,040
sporting moment.
My all time favourite sporting
957
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,800
moment is as I said before, I'm
a massive LeBron fan.
958
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:22,920
To me, he's just the epitome of
a modern athlete where he's you
959
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,200
talk about different cameras in
your face the whole time.
960
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,560
Like, you know, he's, he's never
really messed up.
961
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:29,240
He's been, he's been good to his
family.
962
00:46:29,240 --> 00:46:32,120
He's been good to trying to help
as many people as he can.
963
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:35,440
He's the like you talk about
investing in yourself.
964
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:37,720
That's like one and a half
million. $1,000,000 in yourself,
965
00:46:37,720 --> 00:46:40,000
but his personal trainer, his
dietitian, he's like.
966
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:42,200
All that stuff.
Psychologists, probably as.
967
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:45,080
Well, yeah, all that sort of
stuff and and just the longevity
968
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:48,880
like that's I guess in terms of
making the most of what you got.
969
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,160
Like I've that sort of stuff
I've really taken out.
970
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:53,960
So probably the 2016
championship when he come back
971
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:58,560
from three one went beast mode
him and Kyrie and yeah, just
972
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,720
watching that last game with the
block and then Kyrie hitting the
973
00:47:01,720 --> 00:47:05,880
three like yeah, that was.
LeBron James, You know the first
974
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,880
scored moment with LeBron James.
We've had lots of different dash
975
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:10,840
party.
The other day at Wimbledon, we
976
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,000
had the Matildas.
It's been awesome to go down
977
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:14,840
memory lane on some of these
sporting events.
978
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,960
That's great.
And Speaking of events, the
979
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,080
school board moment, which is a
moment in your life which you
980
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,280
kind of pretty clear and you
remember, I remember that and
981
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:25,200
that caused that.
It's a long like a sliding rules
982
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:26,480
moment.
Have you got a school board
983
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,280
moment?
Yeah, I kind of alluded to it
984
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:33,920
before, but it was in start of
grade 10 when we'd.
985
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:36,960
So my parents, my family, we
came over from South Africa.
986
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:40,360
We lived in Sydney for a little
bit and we went to Brizzy and
987
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:43,360
then was there from a church
here from grade 7:00 to 9:00.
988
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:47,520
And then the end of grade 9,
they said dad's jobs moved,
989
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:49,040
we've got to move back to
Sydney.
990
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:51,520
And I chucked a little bit of a
hissy fit.
991
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:54,520
I, I was talking to my dad about
it actually the other day and he
992
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:57,240
was saying that because I always
thought I just threw a bit of a
993
00:47:57,240 --> 00:47:59,040
tantrum.
And they said, oh, you can stay
994
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:02,000
if you want or whatever.
And but he said that when we
995
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:06,840
moved from Sydney to Brisbane, I
sort of, he made a promise to me
996
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:10,120
that if we haven't moved again,
I'd give him the option, he'd
997
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:12,200
give me the option of what I
wanted to do.
998
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:16,320
And apparently I called him out
and said, you said when I and so
999
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,440
they sort of said, all right,
well, you can come with us or
1000
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:23,040
you can try out boarding.
And I think mum thought it was
1001
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:25,120
just a bit of a throwaway.
Apparently I was a massive sort
1002
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:27,080
of mama's boy there and didn't
know how to do anything.
1003
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:30,480
Wouldn't tie and shoes tie my
own tie, that sort of stuff.
1004
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:32,200
My wife would say that I'm my
mum's boy.
1005
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:37,120
And I tried boarding and I loved
it like he wants not to love.
1006
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:40,320
You've got 80 odd guys in the
boarding house here.
1007
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:42,600
Whenever you wanted to play
touch footy, you got a game
1008
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:44,680
right there.
Like you're always hanging out
1009
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:47,160
with your mates.
You get up to a bit of no good.
1010
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:50,280
You get a good routine, you
learn, you learn a bit more
1011
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:52,320
about yourself because you don't
have mom and dad there saying,
1012
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:56,880
and I do this, make your bed,
wash your clothes, whatever.
1013
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:59,640
Like if you miss laundry, you're
wearing dirty clothes for the
1014
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:02,440
next few days sort of thing.
And for me that was the real
1015
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:06,160
sort of moment because as I've
grown up a bit more, I've
1016
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:07,880
realised how fortunate I was
with that.
1017
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,080
Like my parents, as I say, we
used to watch rugby all the
1018
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:12,680
time.
They loved watching rugby.
1019
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:16,760
Like dad for grade 12 flew up
and watched every game of mine,
1020
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:21,320
even of 1st 15.
And like if like I took that
1021
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,000
away from them by keeping the
opportunity to be up here and
1022
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:27,520
then go down there.
And so that's I think really
1023
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:29,960
where I've got that hole.
If I'm going to be here, if I'm
1024
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:32,080
going to be away from my family,
I'm going to give it all I've
1025
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:33,760
got.
And I think that's really just
1026
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,280
stayed with me the whole time.
I think I've ever been the most
1027
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:39,880
talented or the most athletic or
anything like that, But I've
1028
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:43,320
always had that mindset of I'm
going to give it everything I've
1029
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:46,640
got if if what I've got is not
enough and sort of live with
1030
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:49,360
that.
And it transformed me into if I
1031
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,640
want to do something but no one
else there that's forced me to
1032
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:55,320
get out of bed, setting the
alarm sort of thing, I've got to
1033
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:57,080
do it myself.
And I think that's kept me in
1034
00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:58,240
good stead for the rest of my
life.
1035
00:49:58,240 --> 00:50:00,440
And that's kind of the moment I
attribute it to.
1036
00:50:01,240 --> 00:50:04,160
One final question, Liam, going
back to that 15 year old boy
1037
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:06,640
that's been given the news that
he's about to to board.
1038
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,560
There's 15 year old boys and
girls out there that are playing
1039
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:12,440
sport and they're once a a young
limb may be having the
1040
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:13,960
aspiration to play at the
highest level.
1041
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:16,680
What's some advice that you can
give to the 15 year old now?
1042
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:20,240
The main thing I think is go
back to enjoyment.
1043
00:50:20,240 --> 00:50:22,560
Like I think if you're not
enjoying it, you're not gonna
1044
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:24,680
try a bit harder.
You know, you're doing it for
1045
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:26,160
someone else.
Like I think that was also
1046
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:29,760
probably the big thing is I felt
like back then I was doing a lot
1047
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,840
of the stuff just because my
parents wanted me to play rugby.
1048
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,600
That's what I wanted to do.
Felt again a bit, probably a bit
1049
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:38,600
freed from pressure of like,
well, actually this is pretty
1050
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:40,680
cool.
Like I'm don't have to worry
1051
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:42,920
about my parents over my
shoulder, like trying to please
1052
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:44,680
them look back.
Oh, did they see that tackle?
1053
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:47,520
Whatever, all that stuff that I
sort of put on myself more than
1054
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:51,280
them actually putting on me.
But if you enjoy it, you're
1055
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:53,960
going to.
You either just enjoy the game
1056
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,160
and that's great, that's all
there is to it.
1057
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:58,640
Or you enjoy it and you put in a
bit more work because it's what
1058
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:02,040
you like and what you wanna do.
And if that's the route you
1059
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:04,520
wanna take, then you're gonna
have to put in some hard work
1060
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:06,440
over the time.
And it's a lot easier to put in
1061
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:09,520
that hard work if you remember
why you love it and why you do
1062
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:11,080
it.
Liam Wright, thank you so much
1063
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:13,400
for being on school board the
podcast today and sharing some
1064
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:16,720
insights into your life from the
early days in South Africa to
1065
00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:18,960
where you are now and your
current position with the with
1066
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:20,480
the shoulder injury.
And I wish you all the best in
1067
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:23,080
terms of your recovery and the
and the next phase of your life
1068
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:25,760
rugby on and off the field.
Thanks Chris, really enjoyed it.
