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Hi friends, welcome back to the Saving Bread Podcast.
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This week on the podcast, we have Jenny Berg from Crumb Sourdough, and you are probably already following Jenny on Instagram, but if you are not, I cannot recommend her enough.
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She's funny, she's cool, she's down to earth, and she just is who she is.
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There's it's what you see is what you get.
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And I really enjoyed the conversation that I had with her.
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I think a lot of us believe that our only option for selling sourdough is maybe a porch pickup if we're doing the cottage baking thing.
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And Jenny shows us that there's another path.
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She had to jump over many hurdles, up and over and around and under and all the things in order to be able to sell bread in Oregon and help others do the same.
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And so she tells us all about how that journey started, um, how it ended, and if you're struggling with something in the state that you're living in, how maybe you can start to make meaningful changes.
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We talk about passion, we talk about our family life, we talk about all the things, and it's just a really beautiful conversation, and I know that you're really going to enjoy it and really enjoy her.
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So, yes, this week is an interviews episode, and next week I will be back with a lessons episode where we just start to um dive a little bit deeper in the world of sourdough microbiology.
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We might touch on pH a little bit, and we're definitely going to talk about incorporating more whole grains and what that looks like.
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But for this week, we've got our interview, and I'm glad that you're here.
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If you hear this episode and you think of a friend who might enjoy it, uh do us a favor and just send this episode to them so they can enjoy it right along with you.
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So, on that note, let's get right into the interview with Jenny Berg.
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I'm Allie White, and this is Saving Bread.
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We did it.
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We're here.
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I'm learning that the baking crew is not also the tech crew.
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I'm pretty techie actually.
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Are you?
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I believe that I do.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Because you have great content.
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I overestimated my abilities to start a podcast, to record anything, to edit anything.
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Like it's been uh a journey.
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It's been a journey.
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Yeah, you mentioned the other day that it's taking up all of your free time.
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So 100%.
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That's oh well.
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But it's fun to learn.
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Take care of yourself.
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Take care of yourself when I'm dead.
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Right.
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That's sort of where I am.
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I've got to make time, I've got to make hay while the sun shines.
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Oh, okay.
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Let's get into it.
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We have Jenny Berg here from Crum Sourdough.
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Welcome, Jenny.
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Thank you for agreeing to be on the Saving Bread podcast.
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Well, thank you for having me, Allie.
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I'm so excited and and I'm honored at the same time, really.
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Oh, you were top of the list, girl.
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I was so excited to reach out to you.
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Oh, well, thank you so much.
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And I I just want to say your venture into this podcast journey is perfect because I don't know if anyone's told you this, but your voice is perfect.
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It's mesmerizing.
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I can watch you all day long on Instagram when you when you have your cookie, your long videos on Instagram.
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I've I'm like your audience the hundred percent of that time because you're just it's so calming when you talk and you have a lot of authority behind what you're saying.
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So this is a natural progression for you.
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Thank you.
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I've had this idea for many years.
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And I don't know if you know this about me, but I was a fitness coach for most of my career.
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And I'm a small person.
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And so I had to really learn how to command a room of 50 people and hold space and get them to sprint at 130 revolutions per minute on their bike.
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Like everybody look at me, listen to me, and just hold space and like command the space and take up space as a five foot two petite woman.
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And so I do feel like all those years of that helped me prepare for this and just say the thing, do the thing, and it feels very comfortable for me.
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And it's been a very nice um change from the long hours in the bakery.
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I bet it is yeah, in your closet with the door closed.
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Yes.
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Yeah, it's kind of like Toastmasters, but you you didn't have to go that route.
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It just came to you through your your previous life.
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That is correct.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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Okay, let's get to the goods.
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You have a huge online presence.
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I think most people in this space know who you are.
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They've at least heard of you, they're following you.
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You definitely have a presence on social media.
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So, congratulations on your success.
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And you make it look very easy.
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I know that it is not, but let's just back it up a little bit.
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Before your bakery existed, before crumb existed, what was happening in your life and what did bread awaken in you that the previous work you were doing did not?
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Yeah.
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Well, I don't know if many people know.
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I've gone into the route of in my messaging coming from my age and my generation.
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So I am in my late 50s.
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So I've had a lot of different hats in my life.
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I have had some little moonlighting entrepreneurial stints in the past.
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I have worked for other people.
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There's a lot of chapters in my life.
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There were chapters where I was a lady of leisure for a while.
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My husband was a very successful building contractor.
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When we met, we've been married 26 years now.
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So he was in at the peak of his career.
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And so when we were married, I was basically in charge of domestic responsibilities.
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And that that became very kind of, I mean, it sounds wonderful, but it's it's really not fulfilling.
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After a while, you start feeling like I'm really wasting purpose that I have.
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I mean, it's great to sleep in, I do miss that.
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But it's it's more important to be generating things for your life, for yourself, for your community.
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And so through the years, I've had a lot of different journeys with that.
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At the point when Sourdough found me, it was like so many others, it was during COVID.
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And at that time, I was working for an appliance store in town.
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I was working doing computer work in the warehouse.
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Very mundane, very groundhog, get up, do the same thing every day.
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I enjoyed the crew immensely, but it was not very creative work at all.
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So COVID came along and I was sent home to work.
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And that's really where this whole sourdough thaped.
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And it's funny looking back because it happened to a lot of people, unbeknownst to me at the time.
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I had no idea this whole bread revolution was going on behind the scenes.
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As much as I look like I know what I'm doing on social media, I'm not up on the trends at all, more so back then.
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So a friend of mine posted on Facebook a picture of her sourdough and her baked loaf.
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And for the longest time, though, I had always been curious about sourdough, and I was way too intimidated to pursue.
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It seemed very needy.
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It seemed like you're bringing in another living being into your family unit, all that stuff you hear, which is true in a lot of ways.
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So I had all this time all of a sudden, and this was my opportunity to kind of go for it.
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And I did.
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And that was in the spring of 2020.
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And at the same time, some other changed in our life.
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My husband's very longtime office manager passed away.
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And so I then also left my job at the appliance store and came home and filled those shoes as his office manager, which was, again, just like so abruptly switching gears that had me in tears a lot trying to run his giant construction general contracting business.
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So there was a lot of pressure.
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And I found that the baking sourdough for me during that very chaotic time was a little snippet of joy.
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It was playful, it was challenging.
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It was something that kept my brain occupied during all this other stuff going on.
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And that's where it started.
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And that period went on of just like I'm one of those people that literally became obsessed, where you go to bed thinking, okay, can I do this kind of scoring on my loaf?
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Can I master that, what I'm seeing on Instagram, these beautiful designs?
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And I quickly learned that is not my forte.
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So you once you figure out what you're not good at, you might want to just sort of like leave that in the dust and not make it work for you.
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So for me, it was like this progression of what am I good at with this?
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And it was just constantly challenging me.
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It was like I dreamt of sourdough.
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I woke up thinking about it.
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It was just bizarre.
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I'm not like that now.
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The obsession is past.
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It has subsided.
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It's business now.
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But back then, it was like this totally stimulating, creative outlet for me that literally just kind of took me away from a lot of pressure and stress that was going on all around.
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And I thank God for that because I don't know where I'd be if I wasn't brave enough in that time to kind of step into it.
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My life would be really different.
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I know I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you for sure.
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Well, thank goodness you are, because this is lovely and you are lovely.
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And I'm very thankful for our friendship that we've had online, and now we get to chit-chat face to face.
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Well, you know, through the internet, but still face to face.
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I'm hearing a lot of different things.
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First of all, I would never classify you as a lady of leisure.
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So it it makes sense to me that that ended up not being a good fit for you.
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You needed purpose, a drive.
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You're the type of person that, like you said, you have an obsession and you think about it and you do it.
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But then you were sort of plopped this, let's call it an opportunity to work with your husband.
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And that is a purpose, that's a job, that's something to do.
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It's it probably kept you very busy, but it didn't align with probably who you are deep down in the things that you want to discover about yourself.
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And then you also learn about sourdough, and then you find yourself thinking about it, wanting to do big things with it.
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And it was almost serendipitous at the time that it came in of you have these two things going on, and like which one is it gonna be?
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Yes, absolutely.
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And again, during this whole time, I mean, it was going on all around me right at that time.
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It was burgeoning this industry and this revival.
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I've heard it called a bread revival.
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I had no clue that was all happening at the same time.
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I think that's what makes it even more special.
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You weren't chasing some trend or trying to be like everyone else, which is not really what I get from your page.
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You have your own identity, you have your own voice when it comes to baking and how you present yourself online.
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And I think that makes sense that you had no idea what was going on around you.
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You were just in your own little bubble and pursuing what spoke to you.
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And I think that's why you come across so genuine and authentic and a little bit raw and rough around the edges.
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Like, this is me, this is what it is.
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I'm not trying to be anything else, like here it is.
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Take it or leave it, you know?
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Yeah, it's pretty much whatever the mood is it is I'm in that day, is what you're gonna say.
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And I love that.
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I really do.
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Do you remember the moment that you stopped thinking of yourself as someone who was trying to learn to bake and you were thinking, you know what?
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I might actually be a baker and I can sell this bread.
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So, how did that transition from just obsessing about the loaf itself turn into I'm going to start baking and selling my bread?
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Yeah.
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That happened toward the end of 2020 when I was baking so much bread, obviously, more than Steve and I could ever consume.
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It's the same story here over and over.
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I brought it to work, I gave it to coworkers.
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They loved it.
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And I was surprised by that.
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And this again, so early in this whole kind of boom, it was very rare for anybody to actually be given a gift of real bread, wild fermented, long fermented.
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That just wasn't available anywhere in my community at that time.
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So the the reception I got was really positive and encouraging.
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So that started the wheels turning.
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On my past, I did jams and jellies and had my little moonlighting business doing that for a while and was baking or making all of that in the Masonic Temple.
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I rented out their commercial kitchen to do that on the weekends.
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And so that kind of re-awakened that drive in me to maybe I'll just moonlight.
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And I did do that for a while.
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I I worked my full-time jobs Monday through Friday, and then started thinking about the business part of it and that I could work it in on my weekends.
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And since we don't have children and we're both older, the I didn't care if I didn't do anything on the weekends.
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It was, this is this was my passion, my obsession.
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And I just didn't have enough hours in the day to do it.
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And the first thing when the business bug kind of bit me, and I was thinking I could do this from home, obviously, because we're all locked down.
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I don't even know where I got the idea to do a porch pickup.
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I honestly think I think I was the first person in my community to do any of that.
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But I I don't know that I got the idea from anybody else.
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I just don't really remember, but I could sell it from home.
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And before I did anything moving forward, I did a ton of research on the internet about the laws in my state of what can I legally sell?
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I mean, when I did the jams and jellies in the past, I knew when you're giving people something to ingest, you've got to be really careful.
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You don't want to open yourself up to liability.
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So it was really important that I understood what I was legally allowed to do.
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And then that opened the whole well, Oregon really sucks with their cottage food law.
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I didn't even know it was called cottage food at that time.
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So I was learning so much.
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And then like really slowly transitioning into this idea of selling the bread from my front porch.
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Okay.
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Without having to interact with anybody, which was a dream for me because I'm an introvert, which is why I love social media, and I don't have to really interact with anybody that I can like show up and leave.
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Um I was just having this conversation.
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I was just having this conversation with Balin yesterday.
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I am an extreme introvert.
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And I think most bakers are.
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I really do.
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And so this idea of just popping it out on the front porch and I don't really have to talk to anyone, not because I don't want to.
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It's just like I'm awkward sometimes.
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And so it's nice.
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Like, go get it.
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And I love you.
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I love you so much.
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But just like get your bread and like bye-bye.
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I love you.
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Um, so it's nice.
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I can totally relate to that.
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Continue.
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So you're you're having these ideas, you want to sell your bread.
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You're very responsible, good job.
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You're thinking, I need to make sure that this is legal.
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So you're researching the Oregon cottage food laws, you're finding out that they're less than ideal.
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What happens next?
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So that was a that really deflated my excitement because at that time, the cottage food law in Oregon or the food exemption, home cooking exemption law, I think is what it was, was introduced in 2016.
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And it was really just to let like hobby bakers kind of do a little something here and there.
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So it really wasn't supporting any kind of like realistic business.
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Just for instance, the the gross sales cap was$20,000.
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That's gross annual sales.
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After expenses, let's say you get to take home 30% of that.
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And I'm thinking, well, that's just not even worth effort to, you know, for being a realistic business.
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So my question was, how does a bill become a law?
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I want to like make a change.
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And so I don't know if you're familiar with David Craybill with forager.com.
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He's one of the websites that I came across in my investigative internet research.
00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:42.319
And he, I have to say, forager.com is probably the foremost cottage food website still to this day, where you can go in and find out what's happening in every state across the country with cottage food law and what you're allowed to do and not allowed to do.
00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:49.839
And I started subscribing to his newsletter, and he was responsible for helping get California update their law.
00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:52.160
So he was the first person I reached out to.
00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:56.880
Sent him an email, and he was not able to help me with Oregon.
00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:08.640
He was preoccupied with some other projects, but he directed me to the Institute for Justice, which is a nonprofit legal and advocacy group in Washington, DC.
00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:10.880
I did not do any of this alone.
00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:18.240
I built a team of people to help me, and thankfully had people who were willing to talk to me and walk me through the whole process.
00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:20.079
But I had to do the heavy lifting.
00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:21.440
None of this was done for us.
00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:28.319
I reached out to the Institute for Justice, told them how our law was and gave them the specifics of that.
00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:31.599
And they're big advocates for the cottage food industry.
00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:45.119
And so they took on Oregon and they basically said, all right, get a group of people together, other bakers that want to participate in this very grassroots effort, and we will guide you along the way.
00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:48.720
And I started a closed Facebook group.
00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:52.319
I think it was called Reform for Oregon Cottage Food Law.
00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:58.799
And I went to other cottage food groups I found on Facebook and I started promoting that I had this group.
00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:02.559
And did anybody want to come aboard and help change the legislation?
00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:09.519
And pretty soon we had a few hundred people in this group, and we were the pioneers of getting this going.
00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:14.000
We had to send emails constantly to all the legislators in our state.
00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:16.880
It was a really cool group of home bakers.
00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:20.400
So we pretty much just sent the emails.
00:19:20.559 --> 00:19:27.279
Here's what the law is, here's why Oregon is one of the worst in the country presently, comparatively.
00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:29.279
And this is what we want to change it to.
00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:34.799
And we had to get a senator or somebody from the Senate to sponsor the bill.
00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:35.759
And we we did.
00:19:35.839 --> 00:19:40.319
We finally got Senator Tim Canope to step up and sponsor the bill.
00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:42.000
And then it just went from there.
00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:46.960
It went to the Senate first, it had to go through all these committees, then it had to go to the House second.
00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:49.519
Anyway, this is probably like more nuts and bolts you want to know.
00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:55.519
No, I think that if people want to make change, they need to know that there's a lot of work and people involved.
00:19:55.599 --> 00:20:05.359
And it's it's really interesting to hear the process because my only knowledge of turning a bill into a law is what I learned from school of rock, the cartoon when I was in middle school.
00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:06.319
So I'm learning a lot.
00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:06.880
I'm taking notes.
00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:09.119
There's a song or something about it.
00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:11.440
It's like the bill becomes a law.
00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:11.839
I don't know.
00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:16.480
It's like I'm just imagining these little cartoons dancing around in my head, but I'm like, oh, you can actually do this.
00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:17.599
And then what happened?
00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:25.920
So before it gets voted on in either chamber, you have to go through all these committees and you have to show up and give verbal testimonies.
00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:27.279
So many of us did that.
00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:31.279
Many of us testified many times during this whole process.
00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:36.720
So the bill passed in 2023.
00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:39.039
Then we had to get the governor to sign it.
00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:41.119
The governor could have just squashed the whole thing.
00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:45.680
So the governor signed it and then brought him a bunch of bread beforehand.
00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:46.720
I'm just kidding.
00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:50.079
Yeah, no, I would have if I had been locally.
00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:50.319
Yeah.
00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:52.880
Um yeah, right.
00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:55.039
Pay him off under the table with a loaf of bread.
00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:56.480
Here's some focaccia.
00:20:56.720 --> 00:20:57.599
Yeah, really, really.
00:20:57.759 --> 00:21:02.480
So then the law, the bill was written up actually to backtrack a little bit.
00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:11.680
The Institute for Justice took the language and all of the things we wanted as home bakers, the changes we wanted, and they wrote it into the bill format.
00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:19.359
So the bill was signed into law, and then after it goes into effect, the Oregon Department of Agriculture then gets hold of it.
00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:26.559
And they get to write up all the rules on their end that they want, which can be totally different than what we just had passed.
00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:36.240
And some of it was, and we had to go to battle a little bit with them and say, look, no, this is what the law says, and this rule you're coming up with really contradicts that.
00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:37.519
So we had to work with them.
00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:43.440
So we weren't able to really start doing things legally by the new law until June of 2024.
00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:56.000
So full six months into the the following year that we were able to then wholesale and our sales limit went up, and we were able to engage in e commerce and ship our products.
00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:59.359
Those were the new wow, those were the changes.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:18.799
You are really a determined person because that was a very long journey and you did not give up and you stuck with it and you rallied people in the community and you saw it through to the end and made real significant change happen.
00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:31.359
And I bet you a lot of people who bake in Oregon or have a cottage bakery in Oregon might not even realize what had to happen for them to be able to get their certification.
00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:33.039
Yeah, no, that's true.
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:33.759
That's evident.
00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:36.319
I could have named it Jenny's bill, but you know.
00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:43.200
I haven't I would have been like, this is the Alley White Cottage Baking Law Bill.
00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:48.240
I don't really, I mean, it's I don't I don't know.
00:22:48.319 --> 00:22:51.279
I it's a big deal, but I don't promote it a lot.
00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:57.519
And people have asked me if I would be willing to kind of coach them on how you go about this.
00:22:57.759 --> 00:22:59.519
And I've just never had an interest in that.
00:22:59.599 --> 00:23:03.680
I I direct them to the Institute for Justice or Forager.com.
00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:07.759
Go find what's happening in your state right now and join them.
00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:08.480
Yeah.
00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:12.160
That's an incredible story and one that I was not aware of.
00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:23.039
I knew a little bit about it because of some things that you've mentioned on social media, but I don't think I was aware as to the depth and length of time that took.
00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:27.599
So congratulations on that win because that's a really big deal.
00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:29.680
I'm not a cottage food baker anymore.
00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:34.960
I actually got inspected and licensed as a domestic kitchen.
00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:38.640
So I'm no longer encumbered by the cottage food laws.
00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:41.359
I can bake food that requires refrigeration now.
00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:45.920
It doesn't have to just be shelf stable and not limited by sales caps anymore.
00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:50.960
Yes, we have something similar in California, although I don't think sourdough is allowed on it.
00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:54.960
There's a Miko, which is everything has to be made within 24 hours.
00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:56.240
And I was like, well, that's not gonna work.
00:23:56.319 --> 00:23:58.000
Sourdough takes 48 hours.
00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:06.319
So it's important for listeners to know that every state has different laws, names, abbreviations, and things.
00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:18.720
And it's really important to do the research, find out these income caps of gross sales, just so that you're picking the right thing, especially based off of which one allows you to make which kind of foods, right?
00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:19.279
Yes.
00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:20.640
Yeah, exactly.
00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:25.279
So for me, it was mostly the income, the sales cap per year.
00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:26.799
My husband retired.
00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:31.200
So my income from the bakery is our main source, it's not the only source.
00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:36.559
And so 50,000 wasn't gonna cut it still as a cottage baker.
00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:49.039
So in Oregon, it's nice that we have that ability to become a licensed domestic kitchen, but you have to have certain things going on in your space that allow for that.
00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:52.720
And the other important thing, too, was having pets in the home.
00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:55.200
That was something that we asked for and got.
00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:57.680
Most people have a pet in the home.
00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:04.559
And back when I started, you couldn't even be a cottage maker if you had a dog or a cat or even a fish.
00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:09.279
I mean, you have to disclose on our labeling what kind of pet you have, even if it's um a lizard.
00:25:09.359 --> 00:25:10.000
I'm not kidding.
00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:12.079
You have to have that on the label.
00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:13.119
Yikes.
00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:15.920
But they're not allowed in the kitchen when you're preparing food.
00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:17.440
So it's just common sense.
00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:28.640
I have worked a lot of places in my almost 40 years of life, and the things going on in the kitchens where I worked were scary.
00:25:29.200 --> 00:25:30.160
Oh, yeah.
00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:40.559
Compared to how clean my house is and how clean other cottage baking houses and kitchens I've been to, they're immaculate.
00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:44.799
And I'm like, man, these rules are real strict.
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:46.640
Where were you when I was working at?
00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:49.519
I won't say where, but it's pretty crazy.
00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:52.000
Um it's interesting.
00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:56.720
Well, that is a wonderful story, and it's only part of your story.
00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:03.920
I mean, that's a huge deal, but besides that, you also are making an incredible amount of bread every single week.
00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:13.680
And on top of that, you are posting on social media quite frequently, which I'm learning is basically a part-time job, if not a full-time job.
00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:19.119
How many loaves are you baking per week?
00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:23.279
Right now in my busy season, it's 230.
00:26:23.599 --> 00:26:27.519
And that's a set number because I am strictly wholesale now.
00:26:27.920 --> 00:26:39.279
I eliminated all customer, direct customer, and any kind of pickups here at the house, or I had another pickup location that was just so 230 a week.
00:26:39.599 --> 00:26:44.880
So split into two days or four days basically, but let's talk about this.
00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:54.319
So you are doing wholesale sales, which in case someone doesn't know, that means you are selling to, for example, a grocery store.
00:26:54.480 --> 00:27:04.240
They're buying it from you for a certain amount, and then they are buying them all at once, I'm assuming, and then reselling them to their customers, probably for a small profit.
00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:05.759
That is what wholesale is.
00:27:05.839 --> 00:27:11.279
And so you're doing 230 loaves a week wholesale to how many different stores?
00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:12.480
Five.
00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:13.200
Great.
00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:14.240
I only have five.
00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:20.480
So three of them are farm stands, two of them are seasonal farm stands that will be shutting down in October.
00:27:20.720 --> 00:27:24.480
I have two grocery stores and one year-round farm stand.
00:27:24.559 --> 00:27:28.240
So come winter time is stressful.
00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:32.319
Winter is slower anyway for most bakers.
00:27:32.559 --> 00:27:36.880
This year, because this is the first year I've gone totally 100% wholesale.
00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:41.599
I don't have the customer orders to carry me through winter anymore.
00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:54.319
So I'm planning how I'm gonna replace the farm stands that close in October, have something in through the winter, but then I still want to honor the farm stands in May.
00:27:54.559 --> 00:27:59.279
So I'm trying to be creative in how that's gonna all work out for me this winter.
00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:07.359
Well, hopefully someone who's listening is in your area and they will have an idea and they will be very excited to have you in their space.
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:10.960
I'm going to believe that and manifest that for you.
00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:14.720
And if you've shown us anything, it's that you will figure it out.
00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:16.240
You absolutely will.
00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:18.000
That's an interesting pivot.
00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:26.319
What do you think the benefits are of doing wholesale versus D2C direct to consumer?
00:28:27.440 --> 00:28:32.000
I found wholesale for me is more predictable income.
00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:33.119
I take a cut.
00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:39.519
There's obviously I'm selling to those people at a reduced price so they can market up.
00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:42.240
And I get asked this a lot, and I'm transparent about it.
00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:43.759
And every store is going to be a little different.
00:28:43.839 --> 00:28:50.799
You want to have your conversation with the manager, but I sell at 70% of my retail, and so they have a 30% markup.
00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:54.240
And that's about as slim as they want to go.
00:28:54.480 --> 00:29:02.559
Most, I've been hearing most stores are more favorable towards a 35, 65% split.
00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:12.160
So it's more work to maintain the income that I'm used to with direct customers, but customers are fickle.
00:29:12.400 --> 00:29:13.759
I love my customers.
00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:23.279
And from week to week, I always felt like I was chasing them so I can know that I'm gonna have this much money coming in because I know I've got these kinds of bills coming up.
00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:24.960
And it was stressful for me.
00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:31.039
So while I'm taking a cut, it's more calming for me to have that predictable.
00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:36.559
I know what I'm getting every month through the wholesale accounts through through this season, through this period.
00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:38.400
That's the benefit for me.
00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:45.839
I would like to talk about this a little bit more because I thankfully my customers, I know them really well.
00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:47.519
They're quite predictable.
00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:49.759
They're used to my pattern of baking now.
00:29:49.839 --> 00:29:50.799
I'm the opposite of you.
00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:58.240
I bake heavily in the late summer, fall, and winter, and then I take late spring and summer off because my kids are out of school.
00:29:58.559 --> 00:30:12.720
But I will agree with you that sometimes I don't remember that it's like spring break and everyone's gone, and I thought I was going to make X amount of dollars, and now I'm making X amount of dollars and I have bills coming up or whatever, and I get a little bit stressed out.
00:30:13.839 --> 00:30:29.279
What you're describing is moving to a different model where you have a set number of loaves that has already been agreed upon by the wholesale account, what they're buying, what they're paying, and you just basically deliver it.
00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:32.000
And how many days a week are you doing that?
00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:33.200
Twice a week.
00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:34.079
Twice a week.
00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:34.559
Okay.
00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:40.400
I have prep days on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and then my bake and delivery days are Wednesdays and Fridays.
00:30:40.720 --> 00:30:41.039
Great.
00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:57.759
I think that this is a very reasonable alternative for someone who doesn't like the uh unpredictability of customer weekly orders because you know what you're getting with this situation, even though the dollars are less, they're consistent, right?
00:30:58.400 --> 00:30:58.480
Right.
00:30:58.799 --> 00:31:00.720
So, how did you find those accounts?
00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:03.759
What was it like to be able to secure those accounts?
00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:05.839
Did it involve a contract?
00:31:06.079 --> 00:31:11.359
If someone's listening to this and they're like, man, these these weekly bakes, I'm I need something different.
00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:13.119
I need to know how many dollars I'm making.
00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:19.039
I can't be susceptible to vacation times and this and that off people traveling, whatever.
00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:22.000
And I want to have wholesale accounts, where would they start?
00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:24.880
Would they just walk into a grocery store and be like, what's up?
00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:26.799
I make sourdough, you want to try some?
00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:28.480
Like, how does that work?
00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:30.559
Yeah, that's a good question.
00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:33.920
Because when I kind of went this direction, I had those same questions.
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:34.240
Yeah.
00:31:34.480 --> 00:31:35.519
I picked up the phone.
00:31:35.759 --> 00:31:38.160
So rather than just walking in, I picked up the phone.
00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:40.960
And you remember phones, we're all used to texting.
00:31:41.119 --> 00:31:52.960
I always tell people to call, just pick up the phone, call, talk to the store manager, make an appointment to come in, to introduce yourself, tell them what you're doing, um, and make the appointment come in.
00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:56.799
I would always bring a loaf of bread to give, yeah, and we'd sit down and chat.
00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:00.559
And the same thing, the the conversation on the phone is very short.
00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:02.640
It's set the time, okay, come on in.
00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:08.480
I mean, if they want to meet with you and explore this, and it's bring your wholesale sheet, bring your items on your menu.
00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:10.480
So you want to have that prepared.
00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:11.359
I have that.
00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:14.079
It's just a very simple Excel spreadsheet.
00:32:14.240 --> 00:32:18.160
I have my loaves, what the wholesale is, and suggested retail.
00:32:18.400 --> 00:32:18.640
Okay.
00:32:18.880 --> 00:32:20.160
Um, that's what I do.
00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:24.160
And I also just recently added per delivery$5 delivery fee.
00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:29.119
This is a very new fee just because of the way gas prices are right now.
00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:33.279
And I'm driving, it's about 150 miles a week.
00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:37.839
So that's a lot of wear and tear on your car, in addition to fuel.
00:32:38.079 --> 00:32:46.079
And I think$5 rather than raising prices, which I haven't done in a couple of years, I've tried to really keep that stable.
00:32:46.160 --> 00:32:49.759
I'm like at the top end in my community, and I don't want to go higher.
00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:57.440
So the$5 fee, that's gonna bring in probably another, maybe another$180 a month, which is great.
00:32:57.839 --> 00:32:59.119
That's gonna cover my fuel.
00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:02.400
You go in, you meet with the manager, and there's no contract.
00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:03.440
That's the other thing I thought.
00:33:03.599 --> 00:33:10.720
I had this whole thing template I found to protect me, and I emailed it to the first grocery store I was in, and he was like, What is this?
00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:14.480
He goes, I don't have this with any other vendor in the entire store.
00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:16.240
So you don't have to worry about that.
00:33:16.400 --> 00:33:22.480
It's just very much like handshake and communication with the bakery manager and the store manager.
00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:28.880
Are they flexible if you're like, hey friend, I need a week off and I'm not gonna be there?
00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:30.000
They're just like, that's cool.
00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:35.359
Yeah, they say just bring a sign in and they will post it in like the rack space that I'm normally in.
00:33:35.759 --> 00:33:36.960
Jenny is a K.
00:33:37.359 --> 00:33:40.400
Yes, and I make announcements on social media and everything.
00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:43.359
So hopefully people hear about it that I'm gone.
00:33:43.759 --> 00:33:44.720
Awesome.
00:33:45.119 --> 00:33:46.880
And that's great.
00:33:47.039 --> 00:34:00.480
I think that this really encourages people to what I'm what I've been saying in a lot of the interviews that we're having, and what a lot of bakers have been saying is make connections with people in real life.
00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:20.079
Call them on the phone, use your vocal cords to have a conversation with them, set up a date and time, bring them a loaf of bread, sit down at a table, be prepared with your pricing, and have it be a handshake deal and really good communication.
00:34:20.320 --> 00:34:33.599
I think not, I don't know necessarily people our age, but people younger than us, sometimes they think they're a little bit fearful of those in-person, I'm not really sure what that's about, but the in-person conversations and the chit chat.
00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:37.039
Um and not and even just older people too.
00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:40.559
I think that COVID kind of tucked us all away.
00:34:40.719 --> 00:34:46.480
And so we're still kind of coming out and and redeveloping and rehealing those relationships in person.
00:34:46.800 --> 00:35:14.559
And you're just saying know the people in your community, show them your face, be kind, bring them a loaf, and develop that relationship so that you have these opportunities to be able to have wholesale accounts because really they're not just buying your bread, they're they have a relationship with you and they like you and they respect you, and you show them the same respect and communication and care, I'm sure.
00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:15.199
Yeah.
00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:24.639
And it's if people want to start out with a locally owned grocery store, it's a lot less intimidating than like going to like maybe Whole Foods, which I would probably never.
00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:31.840
I it just seems so big corporate and a lot of I don't know headache involved with that.
00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:37.760
A lot of most of the other grocery stores and I'm in are family owned, locally owned, have been here for a long time.
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:38.400
Yes.
00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:39.840
Whole Foods used to be like that.
00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:50.719
I worked there for a while, uh long time ago, 2007, before they were owned by someone else, and it was all really like local kinds of things.
00:35:50.800 --> 00:35:52.480
But you're right now, it's it's changed.
00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:55.119
It's very it feels more corporate, maybe.
00:35:55.599 --> 00:36:04.880
Um, and you're right, the local grocery stores, it makes a lot of sense, especially if you're using any local ingredients and supporting local grain.
00:36:04.960 --> 00:36:06.800
It kind of all tells the same story.
00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:08.400
And it's it's very laid back.
00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:13.920
And they appoint all the appointments I've had have not been these intense interviews or anything like that.
00:36:14.079 --> 00:36:19.519
So if you're feeling intimidated, just know, yeah, these local stores, they really want to be a part of the community.
00:36:19.599 --> 00:36:22.400
They want to support the makers in the community.
00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:23.920
So that's a great place to start.
00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:24.880
You'll get good reception.
00:36:24.960 --> 00:36:28.719
The other thing I wanted to just tie into that too is payment terms.
00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:30.559
Really advocate for yourself.
00:36:30.719 --> 00:36:35.840
I let the manager know my payment terms are either net seven or net 15.
00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:37.760
Cash flow for me is really important.
00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:41.119
I'm very small and I'm buying ingredients weekly.
00:36:41.360 --> 00:36:47.760
For me to wait a month for payment would be more pressure than I'm comfortable with.
00:36:48.159 --> 00:36:51.199
I think that net seven, net 15 is more than fair.
00:36:51.360 --> 00:37:01.039
What Jenny is describing is you get your check, your cut, your payment within seven to 15 days of delivery.
00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:02.480
Right.
00:37:02.719 --> 00:37:12.559
And so you want to be very clear because I have found myself in this pickle before where I dropped something off and I was like, my dollars, like, pay me my money.
00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:14.880
And I did not get that money for over a month.
00:37:14.960 --> 00:37:16.639
And I, that was my bad, right?
00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:24.320
I didn't, I didn't know to say I need to be paid at this time for this relationship to work.
00:37:24.480 --> 00:37:26.159
So that was just a learning experience.
00:37:26.320 --> 00:37:31.760
But you already went through this and you're telling everyone kind of the tips to get these things going.
00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:44.880
This is actually not where I thought our conversation was going to go today, but I'm really glad that it is because these are things that I didn't know and things that I actually don't see talked about very frequently in the cottage baking space.
00:37:45.039 --> 00:37:58.880
And they're really important conversations because what's shown on Instagram is a lot of people uh baking at home and putting it on the porch, which is what I do.
00:37:59.199 --> 00:38:10.079
But there are a lot of other opportunities and avenues to bake and put to a grocery store or a supply to a sandwich shop or whatever.
00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:16.159
And these are important things to be thinking about if you're going to go down a different avenue for incoming.
00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:17.039
Yeah.
00:38:17.199 --> 00:38:17.360
Yeah.
00:38:17.760 --> 00:38:24.320
So thank you for thank you for bringing this new and fresh perspective because this is not a conversation that I've had before.
00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:25.199
Oh, good.
00:38:25.519 --> 00:38:26.719
Well, I'm glad to do it.
00:38:27.039 --> 00:38:28.400
Yeah, this has been great.
00:38:28.639 --> 00:38:33.599
Can we talk a little bit about your time management as far as?
00:38:34.079 --> 00:38:42.239
So if you're making, you said 230 loaves a week, that's 115 loaves each baked day, right?
00:38:42.320 --> 00:38:44.320
Because you're baking twice a week.
00:38:44.639 --> 00:38:46.159
That's a lot of bread.
00:38:46.400 --> 00:39:00.159
Can you just briefly walk us through your schedule from waking up and opening your beautiful eyes in the morning to delivering your packaged loaves at the grocery store?
00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:00.719
Sure.
00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:04.159
It doesn't need to be like every detail, but just give us like a flow.
00:39:04.559 --> 00:39:04.960
Sure.
00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:11.840
So what I found it works for me is on my dough prep days, getting up at five.
00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:12.159
Okay.
00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:15.599
It could be later, because I'm usually done by about two.
00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:16.239
Okay.
00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:24.079
But I'd rather I'd rather be done early and go sit outside, you know, kick my kick my feet up or whatever, go take a bath or something.
00:39:24.239 --> 00:39:28.960
But um, so five o'clock and that's my prep day.
00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:33.679
Then bake day though is kind of more grueling um three o'clock a.m.
00:39:34.079 --> 00:39:44.400
I had started at 2 30 when I first started doing, you know, amped up the production quantity just to make sure I wasn't going to be running late.
00:39:44.559 --> 00:39:46.159
But three o'clock works for me.
00:39:46.239 --> 00:39:47.280
So I'm in this rhythm now.
00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:50.480
I load the car, I'm out the door by about 9 30 a.m.
00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:51.599
to do deliveries.
00:39:51.679 --> 00:39:56.719
So from three to about eight, things are baking still.
00:39:56.960 --> 00:39:58.320
So maybe five, five hours.
00:39:58.400 --> 00:39:58.800
Is that right?
00:39:58.960 --> 00:39:59.119
Okay.
00:39:59.280 --> 00:40:01.440
Yep, that's about what I am at to five hours.
00:40:01.519 --> 00:40:02.480
That sounds correct.
00:40:03.679 --> 00:40:05.280
Two uh two ovens running.
00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:08.800
Um, and they start preheating at like one in the morning or something.
00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:10.639
I put them on an appliance timer.
00:40:10.880 --> 00:40:17.039
So out the door delivering, do all my deliveries, and then I'm home by 12:30 or 1:30.
00:40:17.199 --> 00:40:17.760
Just depending.
00:40:17.920 --> 00:40:19.519
I do my errands when I'm in town.
00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:21.599
We're like 25 miles south of town.
00:40:21.679 --> 00:40:25.119
So again, the delivery fee for me made sense.
00:40:25.280 --> 00:40:31.599
It's a 25-mile drive just to get into Bend where my stores are.
00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:32.800
Yeah.
00:40:33.280 --> 00:40:37.519
So that's actually, I mean, three o'clock, that's early.
00:40:38.079 --> 00:40:39.840
I'm not gonna sugarcoat it for anybody.
00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:41.119
That's pretty early.
00:40:41.440 --> 00:40:50.000
But you are done, done and dusted by 12 30, and you've run all your errands, and I'm assuming you probably need to go to bed earlier that night.
00:40:50.079 --> 00:40:50.800
Or I don't know.
00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:59.840
Sometimes I get really uh weirdly energized when I've had less sleep on bake days, and I then I end up staying up too late, and then it's just like this cycle.
00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:03.760
But um that's it's a great schedule.
00:41:04.400 --> 00:41:04.639
Yeah.
00:41:05.679 --> 00:41:06.719
Eight o'clock bedtime.
00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:09.519
Eight o'clock bedtime every night.
00:41:10.400 --> 00:41:12.320
You're describing my my dream.
00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:12.880
Yeah.
00:41:13.840 --> 00:41:18.960
My kids go to bed around that time, and sometimes I just crawl in bed with them, and I'm like, night night.
00:41:19.280 --> 00:41:21.840
Um, I do really love to go to bed early.
00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:31.760
So you have been able to make enough income by having that schedule and doing twice a week deliveries.
00:41:32.480 --> 00:41:33.440
That's really inspiring.
00:41:34.079 --> 00:41:36.880
230 is my max capacity.
00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:44.320
That's refrigerator capacity, that's wear and tear on my body capacity, that's what I can fit in my car.
00:41:44.559 --> 00:41:46.719
I have an SUV capacity.
00:41:46.960 --> 00:41:55.440
I really couldn't go more if I wanted to without hiring help, which as a domestic kitchen, I think I'm prohibited from that.
00:41:55.599 --> 00:41:57.679
It would have to be a family member that helps me.
00:41:57.920 --> 00:41:58.159
Okay.
00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:00.079
Um that was going to be my next question.
00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:01.440
Do you have any help?
00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:02.559
No, I don't.
00:42:02.719 --> 00:42:03.599
I do everything.
00:42:03.760 --> 00:42:09.119
And I know one of the things maybe we wanted to talk about was sustainable growth and how do we grow?
00:42:09.199 --> 00:42:12.559
And I'm actually not interested in growing.
00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:25.519
I'm really my focus is quality of life, and I'm earning enough to live, live here, pay my bills, have a vacation once in a while.
00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:28.320
I'm not built, I'm not trying to build an empire at my age.
00:42:28.480 --> 00:42:36.079
If I were younger, maybe, but I'm looking to retire soon and maybe sell my business or transition into teaching classes.
00:42:36.239 --> 00:42:39.440
I mean, my body will only give me so many years.
00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:42.159
So I'm not going to kill myself between now and then.
00:42:42.320 --> 00:42:49.199
I'm really looking to not burn out, to bring in an income that uh we can live on.
00:42:49.599 --> 00:42:51.599
And that's pretty much it.
00:42:51.679 --> 00:42:53.519
I that wasn't it at the beginning for me.
00:42:53.599 --> 00:42:54.960
I was wanting an empire.
00:42:55.119 --> 00:43:09.840
But then I really, when you get into the actual doing of it and realizing the demands, the physical, the emotional, the mental, the sleep, then you go, hmm, is an empire what I really want?
00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:14.400
I have a lot of respect for what you're saying because I get the same questions.
00:43:14.559 --> 00:43:16.800
And I think it's a normal question to ask a person.
00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:18.400
It's low-hanging fruit.
00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:21.039
What are your goals for your business?
00:43:21.199 --> 00:43:23.920
Do you ever see yourself opening a brick and mortar?
00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:26.000
Do you want to write a book?
00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:34.960
These kinds of questions are normal, but I really have a lot of respect for the person who says, I'm actually very happy with how things are.
00:43:35.199 --> 00:43:41.360
I'm very happy with my twice a week schedule, something that is healthy for my body.
00:43:41.599 --> 00:43:48.400
It's good for my mental health, and it helps me pay my bills, and it's the exact lifestyle that I want to live.
00:43:48.480 --> 00:43:52.960
It's okay to just be happy with what you have.
00:43:53.119 --> 00:43:59.760
You don't always need to be wanting more, chasing more, getting less sleep, going big.
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:01.760
Hustle culture.
00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:03.360
It doesn't have to be that way.
00:44:03.679 --> 00:44:08.480
It's okay to say I want to live a more simple life.
00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:09.280
Exactly.
00:44:09.440 --> 00:44:10.719
And just be happy.
00:44:11.119 --> 00:44:19.440
I I was thinking too, my worst day in the bakery is still a better day than commuting to work somewhere and working for somebody else.
00:44:21.519 --> 00:44:21.920
Yeah.
00:44:22.159 --> 00:44:26.719
So I when I when I am having those days, I have to think, well, you know, it could be different.
00:44:26.960 --> 00:44:27.840
It could be a lot different.
00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:33.920
It's healthy to know what you want, who you are, and where your boundaries are.
00:44:34.079 --> 00:44:40.159
I think that is the true testament of strength and just really knowing yourself.
00:44:40.960 --> 00:44:49.599
And this will kind of take me to my last topic, and then we'll go to my last question that I always ask everyone.
00:44:49.840 --> 00:44:56.079
But your social media account is booming.
00:44:56.800 --> 00:45:01.679
And I would like to know was that always your intention?
00:45:01.840 --> 00:45:08.719
Were you expecting to have such a big presence on social media, or was that kind of a surprise to you?
00:45:09.119 --> 00:45:10.320
It was a surprise.
00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:13.760
Um when I started, I wasn't on Instagram.
00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:20.159
I remember my very first account was called Zelda Rising, which is the name of my starter, Zelda.
00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:29.280
And I just started posting pictures and I started following other bakers on Instagram as part of my learning.
00:45:29.519 --> 00:45:31.360
But yeah, no, I wasn't expecting it.
00:45:31.440 --> 00:45:32.400
It's grown really slow.
00:45:32.480 --> 00:45:33.679
It's grown organically.
00:45:33.840 --> 00:45:38.880
I mean, there's there are bakers who came after me who are 200,000 plus.
00:45:39.280 --> 00:45:39.440
Yeah.
00:45:39.679 --> 00:45:44.960
You don't see too many women in their 50s approaching retirement, no children.
00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:47.760
So I think part of my slower growth has been attributed to that.
00:45:47.920 --> 00:45:50.000
I just don't, there's just not the audience for that.
00:45:50.159 --> 00:45:53.039
They don't really get when I talk about that I have no hormones.
00:45:53.280 --> 00:45:56.559
So I'm going to say it like I'm like they're like, what?
00:45:56.800 --> 00:45:58.000
I don't get that.
00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:04.400
But um, you know, it's but yeah, it it goes in waves the social media growth.
00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:11.119
And it's finally getting to the point where I'm getting approached to collab and I'm starting to learn more about how that works.
00:46:11.519 --> 00:46:16.000
You do get pretty good income from certain partnerships.
00:46:16.239 --> 00:46:16.480
Sure.
00:46:16.639 --> 00:46:19.760
Um, but then again, you don't want to turn into a total commercial.
00:46:20.079 --> 00:46:23.119
That's the other thing is I don't people get turned off by that.
00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:25.599
I I couldn't agree with you more.
00:46:25.920 --> 00:46:33.920
And I have like six followers, so I'm not one to be like, oh, this is a problem that I have right now because it's sh it's not.
00:46:34.159 --> 00:46:45.519
Uh but I wonder because of like you, I think I have a little bit of a different voice than what's typically seen in the cottage baking space.
00:46:45.760 --> 00:46:52.880
Um I am an alternative girly, like uh working with a lot of whole grains.
00:46:53.039 --> 00:46:58.719
I'm teaching professionally, I'm not making these fast cut videos with like trending audio.
00:46:58.880 --> 00:47:08.559
You're also not doing that, and you're you're representing a different community of women who are baking, they're not stay-at-home moms, like we're we're in our lanes, right?
00:47:09.599 --> 00:47:37.440
And I wonder, and I don't know if I'll keep this in or cut this out, but I wonder sometimes if I dip into what you're describing, which is monetizing through collaborations or monetizing through um affiliate links, will I lose the respect that I've worked very, very hard to get from my six followers of you know more than that.
00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:42.159
I didn't, I didn't, and this I am not casting shade on anyone.
00:47:42.239 --> 00:47:43.920
Like, get your money, girl.
00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:45.840
However, you're getting it, get paid.
00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:56.719
But what I'm saying is I I worry that I would lose my identity a bit if I relied on affiliate links and kind of got paid that way.
00:47:56.960 --> 00:47:59.840
I just don't know how those two things mesh.
00:47:59.920 --> 00:48:02.559
And I spend a lot of time thinking about it because it would be cool.
00:48:02.719 --> 00:48:08.320
It'd be really cool to have a lot more followers and get paid through collaborations and other things.
00:48:08.400 --> 00:48:14.079
But like you said, sometimes it can be a little bit people don't always like it.
00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:18.559
Um and we want to bring joy to people because we make bread.
00:48:18.800 --> 00:48:20.800
So that's something that I really struggle with.
00:48:20.960 --> 00:48:38.320
So when you when you end up going over that hurdle and kind of figuring it out, which I know you will, you'll have to tell me how that feels, uh, what relationships felt organic and others felt forced or what that journey is like, because I'm very curious.
00:48:38.400 --> 00:48:44.960
And I think there's people who are doing it well, but I don't know how to do it, is I guess what I'm saying.
00:48:45.360 --> 00:48:49.039
Well, I think if you find a partnership, so I have a couple of them.
00:48:49.199 --> 00:48:51.920
It's like what I'm already doing in the bakery anyway.
00:48:52.159 --> 00:48:54.079
Like Avery Labels, for instance.
00:48:54.400 --> 00:48:56.639
Um I have a little collab with them.
00:48:57.199 --> 00:49:08.880
And it's I use them anyway, and people are always looking for packaging tips, or I get DMs a lot about my bags or okay, my label, who creates your labels and that kind of thing.
00:49:08.960 --> 00:49:21.679
So if it feels like it's a natural extension of what you're already doing, you can make a reel that's entertaining with the educational points in it, maybe just 60 seconds long.
00:49:22.159 --> 00:49:26.719
And so far, I haven't gotten any kind of blowback from it.
00:49:27.039 --> 00:49:30.400
That is a really good point because you're already using it.
00:49:30.559 --> 00:49:32.400
You've already stood behind this product.
00:49:32.480 --> 00:49:38.639
It's not like suddenly you're promoting some new thing that you haven't it hasn't stood the test of time with you.
00:49:38.719 --> 00:49:42.880
It's something that you love and are organically using.
00:49:42.960 --> 00:49:44.639
So it makes sense for that.
00:49:44.800 --> 00:49:47.760
That's that's actually a very good tip and a very good point.
00:49:48.159 --> 00:49:48.559
Yeah.
00:49:48.800 --> 00:49:54.880
And it's kind of fun because sometimes you struggle with content, like what am I gonna make that somebody's might gonna find interesting?
00:49:54.960 --> 00:49:55.519
And sure.
00:49:55.760 --> 00:50:07.840
So for me, it's nice because I'm kind of given the topic, yeah, you know, or the product, then I can put something out there that can be of benefit to another baker.
00:50:08.400 --> 00:50:09.119
That's right.
00:50:09.440 --> 00:50:20.719
And help them sift through the noise because there's a lot of choices out there when it comes to an oven, a label, a bread bag.
00:50:20.800 --> 00:50:33.199
And so if they see someone that they know and trust like you, they can say I know that Jenny's been using these labels for three years and she loves them, so I'm gonna buy them too.
00:50:33.599 --> 00:50:35.920
Yeah, that's a really nice way to look at it.
00:50:36.239 --> 00:50:37.360
Hold on just one second.
00:50:37.519 --> 00:50:37.840
Yeah.
00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:39.360
Hold on just one second.
00:50:39.440 --> 00:50:40.159
Hey, holding.
00:50:40.480 --> 00:50:44.320
Steve, would you would you put my LeBan in the fridge?
00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:45.039
Thanks.
00:50:45.119 --> 00:50:45.360
Okay.
00:50:46.880 --> 00:50:48.000
Zelda needs tending.
00:50:48.320 --> 00:50:50.079
Yeah, she needs to go in the fridge now overnight.
00:50:50.400 --> 00:50:51.360
She's a needy gal.
00:50:51.679 --> 00:50:52.159
That's Zelda.
00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:55.039
Yeah, she's dramatic.
00:50:57.039 --> 00:51:03.199
When I'm gone and and my husband has to take care of my starter, he's he's like, I gotta take notes.
00:51:03.360 --> 00:51:04.559
I don't want to mess it up.
00:51:04.719 --> 00:51:06.400
And I'm like, no, you really don't.
00:51:06.559 --> 00:51:08.079
You really don't want to mess it up.
00:51:08.559 --> 00:51:09.360
Exactly.
00:51:09.679 --> 00:51:10.639
Oh no, man.
00:51:10.880 --> 00:51:13.679
When I went to Italy, I had to teach Steve how to feed her twice a day.
00:51:13.760 --> 00:51:15.280
Oh my gosh, he was so nervous.
00:51:15.519 --> 00:51:15.760
Yeah.
00:51:15.920 --> 00:51:17.360
So he wasn't getting it.
00:51:17.440 --> 00:51:18.480
And I think I got on him.
00:51:18.559 --> 00:51:23.920
I was kind of I was kind of like mean to him about it, and he was like, never forgot it after that.
00:51:25.119 --> 00:51:26.960
I've had this chat on the pod too.
00:51:27.199 --> 00:51:31.199
The most mean I've ever been to my husband.
00:51:31.440 --> 00:51:42.000
I'm so sorry, Mike, is when I'm working, or I I think I had like accidentally deleted a bunch of spreadsheets I really needed, and I just lost it.
00:51:42.239 --> 00:51:47.440
And I was like, this isn't your fault, but you're here, so I'm just I'm yelling at you.
00:51:47.679 --> 00:51:50.960
But it was just like, he's like, You're a crazy person.
00:51:51.840 --> 00:51:53.119
Um yeah.
00:51:53.199 --> 00:51:53.360
Okay.
00:51:53.760 --> 00:51:54.480
Glad we're not alone.
00:51:55.440 --> 00:51:56.639
Thank God, right?
00:51:57.119 --> 00:52:14.239
We've had a wonderful, lovely chat, and it wasn't where I thought it was gonna go, which is my favorite part about doing this podcast, is that I have all of these little ideas, and then I I I see someone get excited about something, and I'm like, let's go, let's go down that and something new that hasn't already been said on the podcast.
00:52:14.320 --> 00:52:15.199
So thank you so much.
00:52:15.440 --> 00:52:19.519
This podcast is called Saving Bread.
00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:23.920
And that can mean a lot of different things to whoever hears it, right?
00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:26.639
Based off of their life experiences.
00:52:27.199 --> 00:52:38.079
And when you hear saving bread or when you think about the work that you're doing, what do you think needs protecting, preserving, or amplification?
00:52:38.159 --> 00:52:43.599
Like, what does saving bread mean to you in the time and space that you're in right now?
00:52:44.800 --> 00:52:47.360
I love that you named your podcast that.
00:52:47.599 --> 00:52:57.599
It encapsulates the whole idea of bread being a part of humanity for centuries.
00:52:58.239 --> 00:53:17.119
And when you think of saving bread, I think of we're living in an era of so much advancing technology, and things are moving farther and farther away from things that keep humanity connected.
00:53:17.440 --> 00:53:32.159
And bread is one of those things, you can look back through thousands and thousands of years, how often bread is mentioned in the Bible, for instance, or how much bread sustained a civilization or kept people alive at sea.
00:53:32.320 --> 00:53:37.679
The whole act of baking real bread, I think it's in everyone's DNA.
00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:42.960
I think everyone has the ability and the drive to want that.
00:53:43.119 --> 00:53:45.840
It's just part of who we are as people.
00:53:46.480 --> 00:53:51.360
And I love the bread revolution that we've been experiencing lately.
00:53:51.519 --> 00:54:09.280
People are coming back to that, moving away from what we call fake bread or chemical-filled bread or bread that's not long fermented, getting back to the root of something that is so simple, which is real bread, flour, water, wild yeast, and salt.
00:54:09.679 --> 00:54:15.679
So simple, but it's so complex and it's so intertwined with humans.
00:54:16.480 --> 00:54:18.719
And it's so humbling, too.
00:54:18.880 --> 00:54:23.360
I've never been more humbled by this experience with bread.
00:54:23.599 --> 00:54:30.000
I mean, I'm a pretty defensive person, and it takes a lot for me to admit wrongdoing or error.
00:54:30.239 --> 00:54:35.119
So bread has that's been a gift that's bread that bread has given me.
00:54:35.199 --> 00:54:41.039
So saving bread to me really means growth in my own character.
00:54:41.119 --> 00:54:43.039
It really means connecting with humans.
00:54:43.360 --> 00:54:49.440
My life has changed so dramatically because of it, because I chose to save bread.
00:54:49.519 --> 00:54:54.000
I chose to make it, I chose to feed it to my family first before selling it.
00:54:54.320 --> 00:54:58.320
I think that's just for me, it's just when you look at different things.
00:54:58.480 --> 00:55:05.440
I think if when I go to the grocery store and I pull things out of the bag, can I look at that product and go, this is a miracle of nature?
00:55:05.679 --> 00:55:07.039
You know, like honey.
00:55:07.199 --> 00:55:11.599
Honey is one of those things where like that is a real miracle of nature.
00:55:11.920 --> 00:55:17.599
How many things can you pull out of your bag from the market and say that about?
00:55:18.079 --> 00:55:25.039
I think we we're losing touch with a lot of that with our food and connection with the land and connection with farmers.
00:55:25.119 --> 00:55:32.000
And there's just so much that goes into this very basic, this very humble loaf of bread.
00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:43.679
And for a long time it had been forgotten in our communities 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 40 years ago, you didn't see artisan bread.
00:55:44.079 --> 00:55:46.639
I mean, maybe in Europe you did, but not in the United States.
00:55:46.800 --> 00:55:48.159
We really moved away from that.
00:55:48.559 --> 00:55:50.639
I think it made a lot of people sick.
00:55:51.519 --> 00:55:56.079
A lot of people can't handle the digestibility of fake bread.
00:55:56.480 --> 00:56:03.519
So saving bread, I think it's just bringing back health of humanity, really.
00:56:03.679 --> 00:56:07.280
I mean, it's just so basic and simple as that and important.
00:56:08.559 --> 00:56:15.199
That is a beautiful answer and made me feel very emotional because I agree with you.
00:56:15.360 --> 00:56:27.599
I think it deserves attention, it deserves care, it deserves preservation, and it takes a lot of people to make that happen.
00:56:27.760 --> 00:56:38.159
I mean, look at the work that you had to do to change the law where you live so that you could sell this type of bread to your community.
00:56:38.320 --> 00:56:40.239
That's how important it was to you.
00:56:40.480 --> 00:56:46.719
And there are a lot of wonderful people doing incredible work, building grain mills, right?
00:56:47.039 --> 00:56:50.960
Farming the wheat, teaching other people how to bake.
00:56:51.280 --> 00:56:56.559
And it takes an incredible village of people who want to preserve it.
00:56:56.719 --> 00:57:08.159
And thank you for doing the work that you've done and the work that I know you'll continue to do with your your tenacity that you have just bubbling within you.
00:57:08.400 --> 00:57:11.360
How can our listeners support you?
00:57:11.519 --> 00:57:14.320
Is following you on Instagram the best way?
00:57:14.719 --> 00:57:20.159
Affiliate links, buying, buying your bread at the market, where can we find you?
00:57:20.320 --> 00:57:21.440
How can we follow you?
00:57:21.519 --> 00:57:22.800
Tell us all the things.
00:57:23.280 --> 00:57:23.519
Sure.
00:57:23.679 --> 00:57:28.880
I think if people wanted to follow me on Instagram, that's my main platform, they can do that.
00:57:29.039 --> 00:57:32.079
I'm sure you'll have maybe the handle somewhere.
00:57:32.559 --> 00:57:32.960
Let's tell them.
00:57:33.119 --> 00:57:33.840
Let's tell them the handle.
00:57:34.079 --> 00:57:34.159
Sure.
00:57:34.239 --> 00:57:34.400
Yeah.
00:57:34.559 --> 00:57:39.119
It's at crumb.sourdough.microbakery.
00:57:39.280 --> 00:57:39.519
Yes.
00:57:39.760 --> 00:57:41.039
So two dots in there.
00:57:41.280 --> 00:57:44.239
And then um face Facebook, I'm on there as well.
00:57:44.400 --> 00:57:47.920
I think that's just at crumb sourdough microbakery, no dots.
00:57:48.480 --> 00:57:53.760
But yeah, you can support me by buying my bread and my retail partners.
00:57:54.079 --> 00:58:14.239
I locally I'm at Local Acres Marketplace, Newport Avenue Market, the Vegetable Man Produce, which is May through October, Tumalo Farm Stand, which is year-round, and newly I'm at Jordan's Fruit Stand, which is in Redmond, and they're seasonal too.
00:58:14.320 --> 00:58:16.000
They're October through May.
00:58:16.239 --> 00:58:23.360
I do have something secured to replace that Redmond location when the Jordan's shuts down.
00:58:23.519 --> 00:58:29.920
I've been communicating with a uh very popular small locally owned grocery store market there.
00:58:30.079 --> 00:58:30.639
So great.
00:58:30.800 --> 00:58:32.079
You'll probably see me there.
00:58:32.400 --> 00:58:52.880
If you see me doing a real promoting, whether it's labels or a bread bag or anything related to the bakery, if you kind of sense like, yeah, that may be a collaboration, yeah, maybe support that that company because I won't take on that partnership unless I myself use it and find it to be really helpful in what I do.
00:58:53.360 --> 00:58:54.639
So that's fantastic.
00:58:54.800 --> 00:59:02.239
Those are uh uh at least three ways people can come and follow you and enjoy the content that you make because I certainly do.
00:59:02.480 --> 00:59:18.880
And I'm thankful that, you know, there's a lot of there's some things about social media that aren't so great, but there's a lot of things that are really great because it allows people who would have never met in the real world because they live far or whatever, to meet and become friends.
00:59:19.039 --> 00:59:22.000
So I'm thankful that it brought us together.
00:59:22.159 --> 00:59:25.760
And I feel like even more recently we've been able to connect a little bit more.
00:59:26.079 --> 00:59:32.239
You're just doing great things, and I I really admire the work that you're doing and the voice that you provide to our community.
00:59:32.639 --> 00:59:33.760
Well, thank you so much.
00:59:33.840 --> 00:59:35.280
And I'm so glad we've connected.
00:59:35.360 --> 00:59:37.360
I don't even remember how we actually did.
00:59:37.440 --> 00:59:40.000
It must have been over pH probably later.
00:59:43.840 --> 00:59:45.920
I don't want to I don't want to teach about that.
00:59:47.519 --> 00:59:49.599
So I'm happy to have done that for you.
00:59:49.679 --> 00:59:51.440
And this podcast is wonderful.
00:59:51.519 --> 00:59:54.480
I've enjoyed listening to the your episodes that you've done so far.
00:59:54.559 --> 00:59:56.960
And congratulations on all your success with it, too.
00:59:57.440 --> 00:59:58.079
Thank you.
00:59:58.239 --> 00:59:58.639
Thank you.
00:59:58.800 --> 01:00:02.480
All right, well, I'll end the recording for us and then we can keep chatting while it downloads.
01:00:02.719 --> 01:00:03.039
Okay.
01:00:03.199 --> 01:00:04.400
Okay, cool.
01:00:05.039 --> 01:00:13.119
Thank you again, Jenny, for chatting with us today and opening your heart to us and sharing all of the hard work that you've done for your community.
01:00:13.280 --> 01:00:18.159
It's really impressive and really inspiring, and I just loved where that conversation went.
01:00:18.400 --> 01:00:27.360
There were so many things that stuck with me, but I think one of the biggest was when Jenny was talking about knowing what enough looks like.
01:00:27.599 --> 01:00:29.119
She fought to change a lot.
01:00:29.280 --> 01:00:31.280
She built a bakery that supports her.
01:00:31.440 --> 01:00:38.079
She's baking 230 loaves a week and has created a completely different model through wholesale.
01:00:38.159 --> 01:00:41.840
And at the same time, she's able to say, I don't need to build an empire.
01:00:42.079 --> 01:00:48.159
I want to make good bread, make a living, have a life, and not destroy myself while doing that.
01:00:48.320 --> 01:00:55.199
And I think that's a really important conversation to have in a culture that constantly tells us that growth is the only goal.
01:00:55.440 --> 01:01:05.519
And then her answer to what saving bread means to her, that connection between bread and people and land is something that we've been doing for thousands of years.
01:01:05.679 --> 01:01:09.119
And I thought that was just I thought that was a beautiful place to end.
01:01:09.360 --> 01:01:14.559
I'll put all of Jenny's information into the show notes so you can find her and follow the work that she is doing.
01:01:14.639 --> 01:01:17.119
And next week, we're back with a lessons episode.
01:01:17.280 --> 01:01:30.400
We're going to get nerdy again, talk about sourdough microbiology, pH, and start getting into how we can work more whole grain into our bread without feeling like we have to throw everything we already know out of the window.
01:01:30.559 --> 01:01:32.719
So thank you for being here this week.
01:01:32.960 --> 01:01:38.239
Thank you for supporting the Saving Bread Podcast, and I will talk to you all next week.
01:01:40.880 --> 01:01:44.400
Thank you for listening to the Saving Bread Podcast.
01:01:47.039 --> 01:01:50.400
Music by Joshua from Dope.
01:01:54.960 --> 01:02:00.320
And as always, happy baking and long live real bread.
00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:04.000
Hi friends, welcome back to the Saving Bread Podcast.
00:00:04.160 --> 00:00:15.439
This week on the podcast, we have Jenny Berg from Crumb Sourdough, and you are probably already following Jenny on Instagram, but if you are not, I cannot recommend her enough.
00:00:15.599 --> 00:00:21.920
She's funny, she's cool, she's down to earth, and she just is who she is.
00:00:22.079 --> 00:00:24.800
There's it's what you see is what you get.
00:00:25.039 --> 00:00:28.719
And I really enjoyed the conversation that I had with her.
00:00:28.960 --> 00:00:36.960
I think a lot of us believe that our only option for selling sourdough is maybe a porch pickup if we're doing the cottage baking thing.
00:00:37.039 --> 00:00:39.280
And Jenny shows us that there's another path.
00:00:39.439 --> 00:00:49.359
She had to jump over many hurdles, up and over and around and under and all the things in order to be able to sell bread in Oregon and help others do the same.
00:00:49.520 --> 00:01:03.200
And so she tells us all about how that journey started, um, how it ended, and if you're struggling with something in the state that you're living in, how maybe you can start to make meaningful changes.
00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:14.480
We talk about passion, we talk about our family life, we talk about all the things, and it's just a really beautiful conversation, and I know that you're really going to enjoy it and really enjoy her.
00:01:14.719 --> 00:01:28.480
So, yes, this week is an interviews episode, and next week I will be back with a lessons episode where we just start to um dive a little bit deeper in the world of sourdough microbiology.
00:01:28.640 --> 00:01:34.799
We might touch on pH a little bit, and we're definitely going to talk about incorporating more whole grains and what that looks like.
00:01:34.879 --> 00:01:39.200
But for this week, we've got our interview, and I'm glad that you're here.
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If you hear this episode and you think of a friend who might enjoy it, uh do us a favor and just send this episode to them so they can enjoy it right along with you.
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So, on that note, let's get right into the interview with Jenny Berg.
00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:55.680
I'm Allie White, and this is Saving Bread.
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We did it.
00:02:01.760 --> 00:02:02.480
We're here.
00:02:02.719 --> 00:02:09.360
I'm learning that the baking crew is not also the tech crew.
00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:12.400
I'm pretty techie actually.
00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:13.120
Are you?
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I believe that I do.
00:02:14.719 --> 00:02:14.960
Yeah.
00:02:15.199 --> 00:02:15.360
Yeah.
00:02:15.599 --> 00:02:17.280
Because you have great content.
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I overestimated my abilities to start a podcast, to record anything, to edit anything.
00:02:23.840 --> 00:02:26.319
Like it's been uh a journey.
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It's been a journey.
00:02:27.680 --> 00:02:31.520
Yeah, you mentioned the other day that it's taking up all of your free time.
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So 100%.
00:02:33.120 --> 00:02:34.639
That's oh well.
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But it's fun to learn.
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Take care of yourself.
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Take care of yourself when I'm dead.
00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:41.680
Right.
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That's sort of where I am.
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I've got to make time, I've got to make hay while the sun shines.
00:02:48.719 --> 00:02:49.599
Oh, okay.
00:02:49.759 --> 00:02:51.039
Let's get into it.
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We have Jenny Berg here from Crum Sourdough.
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Welcome, Jenny.
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Thank you for agreeing to be on the Saving Bread podcast.
00:03:00.240 --> 00:03:02.400
Well, thank you for having me, Allie.
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I'm so excited and and I'm honored at the same time, really.
00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:09.120
Oh, you were top of the list, girl.
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I was so excited to reach out to you.
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Oh, well, thank you so much.
00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:23.680
And I I just want to say your venture into this podcast journey is perfect because I don't know if anyone's told you this, but your voice is perfect.
00:03:23.919 --> 00:03:25.360
It's mesmerizing.
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I can watch you all day long on Instagram when you when you have your cookie, your long videos on Instagram.
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I've I'm like your audience the hundred percent of that time because you're just it's so calming when you talk and you have a lot of authority behind what you're saying.
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So this is a natural progression for you.
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Thank you.
00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:46.080
I've had this idea for many years.
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And I don't know if you know this about me, but I was a fitness coach for most of my career.
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And I'm a small person.
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And so I had to really learn how to command a room of 50 people and hold space and get them to sprint at 130 revolutions per minute on their bike.
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Like everybody look at me, listen to me, and just hold space and like command the space and take up space as a five foot two petite woman.
00:04:16.879 --> 00:04:30.639
And so I do feel like all those years of that helped me prepare for this and just say the thing, do the thing, and it feels very comfortable for me.
00:04:30.800 --> 00:04:37.759
And it's been a very nice um change from the long hours in the bakery.
00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:41.519
I bet it is yeah, in your closet with the door closed.
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Yes.
00:04:42.639 --> 00:04:46.399
Yeah, it's kind of like Toastmasters, but you you didn't have to go that route.
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It just came to you through your your previous life.
00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:50.639
That is correct.
00:04:50.879 --> 00:04:51.199
Yeah.
00:04:51.519 --> 00:04:51.839
Okay.
00:04:52.079 --> 00:04:53.600
Okay, let's get to the goods.
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You have a huge online presence.
00:04:56.160 --> 00:05:00.560
I think most people in this space know who you are.
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They've at least heard of you, they're following you.
00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:07.759
You definitely have a presence on social media.
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So, congratulations on your success.
00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:13.680
And you make it look very easy.
00:05:13.839 --> 00:05:17.680
I know that it is not, but let's just back it up a little bit.
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Before your bakery existed, before crumb existed, what was happening in your life and what did bread awaken in you that the previous work you were doing did not?
00:05:34.160 --> 00:05:34.800
Yeah.
00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:38.399
Well, I don't know if many people know.
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I've gone into the route of in my messaging coming from my age and my generation.
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So I am in my late 50s.
00:05:47.600 --> 00:05:51.040
So I've had a lot of different hats in my life.
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I have had some little moonlighting entrepreneurial stints in the past.
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I have worked for other people.
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There's a lot of chapters in my life.
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There were chapters where I was a lady of leisure for a while.
00:06:03.839 --> 00:06:07.360
My husband was a very successful building contractor.
00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:10.639
When we met, we've been married 26 years now.
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So he was in at the peak of his career.
00:06:13.519 --> 00:06:20.319
And so when we were married, I was basically in charge of domestic responsibilities.
00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:25.920
And that that became very kind of, I mean, it sounds wonderful, but it's it's really not fulfilling.
00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:31.360
After a while, you start feeling like I'm really wasting purpose that I have.
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I mean, it's great to sleep in, I do miss that.
00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:41.199
But it's it's more important to be generating things for your life, for yourself, for your community.
00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:45.279
And so through the years, I've had a lot of different journeys with that.
00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:53.360
At the point when Sourdough found me, it was like so many others, it was during COVID.
00:06:53.600 --> 00:06:58.399
And at that time, I was working for an appliance store in town.
00:06:58.480 --> 00:07:01.040
I was working doing computer work in the warehouse.
00:07:01.279 --> 00:07:05.839
Very mundane, very groundhog, get up, do the same thing every day.
00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:11.759
I enjoyed the crew immensely, but it was not very creative work at all.
00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:17.120
So COVID came along and I was sent home to work.
00:07:17.839 --> 00:07:21.600
And that's really where this whole sourdough thaped.
00:07:21.759 --> 00:07:26.560
And it's funny looking back because it happened to a lot of people, unbeknownst to me at the time.
00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:30.959
I had no idea this whole bread revolution was going on behind the scenes.
00:07:31.120 --> 00:07:37.839
As much as I look like I know what I'm doing on social media, I'm not up on the trends at all, more so back then.
00:07:38.480 --> 00:07:45.439
So a friend of mine posted on Facebook a picture of her sourdough and her baked loaf.
00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:55.040
And for the longest time, though, I had always been curious about sourdough, and I was way too intimidated to pursue.
00:07:55.519 --> 00:07:56.959
It seemed very needy.
00:07:57.040 --> 00:08:04.959
It seemed like you're bringing in another living being into your family unit, all that stuff you hear, which is true in a lot of ways.
00:08:05.199 --> 00:08:12.319
So I had all this time all of a sudden, and this was my opportunity to kind of go for it.
00:08:12.399 --> 00:08:13.040
And I did.
00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:15.519
And that was in the spring of 2020.
00:08:15.839 --> 00:08:19.759
And at the same time, some other changed in our life.
00:08:20.079 --> 00:08:24.319
My husband's very longtime office manager passed away.
00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:41.120
And so I then also left my job at the appliance store and came home and filled those shoes as his office manager, which was, again, just like so abruptly switching gears that had me in tears a lot trying to run his giant construction general contracting business.
00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:42.320
So there was a lot of pressure.
00:08:42.399 --> 00:08:50.000
And I found that the baking sourdough for me during that very chaotic time was a little snippet of joy.
00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:54.000
It was playful, it was challenging.
00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:59.440
It was something that kept my brain occupied during all this other stuff going on.
00:08:59.600 --> 00:09:00.960
And that's where it started.
00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:12.000
And that period went on of just like I'm one of those people that literally became obsessed, where you go to bed thinking, okay, can I do this kind of scoring on my loaf?
00:09:12.159 --> 00:09:16.320
Can I master that, what I'm seeing on Instagram, these beautiful designs?
00:09:16.480 --> 00:09:18.720
And I quickly learned that is not my forte.
00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:27.120
So you once you figure out what you're not good at, you might want to just sort of like leave that in the dust and not make it work for you.
00:09:27.279 --> 00:09:30.639
So for me, it was like this progression of what am I good at with this?
00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:32.960
And it was just constantly challenging me.
00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:34.799
It was like I dreamt of sourdough.
00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:36.320
I woke up thinking about it.
00:09:36.399 --> 00:09:37.360
It was just bizarre.
00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:38.399
I'm not like that now.
00:09:38.559 --> 00:09:39.840
The obsession is past.
00:09:40.080 --> 00:09:41.759
It has subsided.
00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:43.120
It's business now.
00:09:43.279 --> 00:09:57.360
But back then, it was like this totally stimulating, creative outlet for me that literally just kind of took me away from a lot of pressure and stress that was going on all around.
00:09:57.679 --> 00:10:07.679
And I thank God for that because I don't know where I'd be if I wasn't brave enough in that time to kind of step into it.
00:10:08.080 --> 00:10:09.360
My life would be really different.
00:10:09.519 --> 00:10:11.919
I know I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you for sure.
00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:15.600
Well, thank goodness you are, because this is lovely and you are lovely.
00:10:15.679 --> 00:10:20.799
And I'm very thankful for our friendship that we've had online, and now we get to chit-chat face to face.
00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:24.639
Well, you know, through the internet, but still face to face.
00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:26.480
I'm hearing a lot of different things.
00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:31.440
First of all, I would never classify you as a lady of leisure.
00:10:31.919 --> 00:10:36.559
So it it makes sense to me that that ended up not being a good fit for you.
00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:42.240
You needed purpose, a drive.
00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:47.840
You're the type of person that, like you said, you have an obsession and you think about it and you do it.
00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:54.480
But then you were sort of plopped this, let's call it an opportunity to work with your husband.
00:10:54.720 --> 00:10:58.159
And that is a purpose, that's a job, that's something to do.
00:10:58.320 --> 00:11:07.519
It's it probably kept you very busy, but it didn't align with probably who you are deep down in the things that you want to discover about yourself.
00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:16.320
And then you also learn about sourdough, and then you find yourself thinking about it, wanting to do big things with it.
00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:25.679
And it was almost serendipitous at the time that it came in of you have these two things going on, and like which one is it gonna be?
00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:27.519
Yes, absolutely.
00:11:27.759 --> 00:11:32.480
And again, during this whole time, I mean, it was going on all around me right at that time.
00:11:32.559 --> 00:11:36.240
It was burgeoning this industry and this revival.
00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:38.080
I've heard it called a bread revival.
00:11:38.320 --> 00:11:41.600
I had no clue that was all happening at the same time.
00:11:42.159 --> 00:11:44.240
I think that's what makes it even more special.
00:11:44.399 --> 00:11:51.360
You weren't chasing some trend or trying to be like everyone else, which is not really what I get from your page.
00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:57.759
You have your own identity, you have your own voice when it comes to baking and how you present yourself online.
00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:02.879
And I think that makes sense that you had no idea what was going on around you.
00:12:02.960 --> 00:12:07.360
You were just in your own little bubble and pursuing what spoke to you.
00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:14.960
And I think that's why you come across so genuine and authentic and a little bit raw and rough around the edges.
00:12:15.200 --> 00:12:16.960
Like, this is me, this is what it is.
00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:20.159
I'm not trying to be anything else, like here it is.
00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:21.759
Take it or leave it, you know?
00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:26.000
Yeah, it's pretty much whatever the mood is it is I'm in that day, is what you're gonna say.
00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:27.600
And I love that.
00:12:27.759 --> 00:12:28.480
I really do.
00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:37.759
Do you remember the moment that you stopped thinking of yourself as someone who was trying to learn to bake and you were thinking, you know what?
00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:42.000
I might actually be a baker and I can sell this bread.
00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:52.080
So, how did that transition from just obsessing about the loaf itself turn into I'm going to start baking and selling my bread?
00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:52.799
Yeah.
00:12:53.120 --> 00:13:01.039
That happened toward the end of 2020 when I was baking so much bread, obviously, more than Steve and I could ever consume.
00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:03.039
It's the same story here over and over.
00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:05.840
I brought it to work, I gave it to coworkers.
00:13:06.080 --> 00:13:07.120
They loved it.
00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:09.600
And I was surprised by that.
00:13:09.759 --> 00:13:22.720
And this again, so early in this whole kind of boom, it was very rare for anybody to actually be given a gift of real bread, wild fermented, long fermented.
00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:26.720
That just wasn't available anywhere in my community at that time.
00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:30.159
So the the reception I got was really positive and encouraging.
00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:32.399
So that started the wheels turning.
00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:42.080
On my past, I did jams and jellies and had my little moonlighting business doing that for a while and was baking or making all of that in the Masonic Temple.
00:13:42.159 --> 00:13:44.960
I rented out their commercial kitchen to do that on the weekends.
00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:51.440
And so that kind of re-awakened that drive in me to maybe I'll just moonlight.
00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:52.559
And I did do that for a while.
00:13:52.639 --> 00:14:01.039
I I worked my full-time jobs Monday through Friday, and then started thinking about the business part of it and that I could work it in on my weekends.
00:14:01.279 --> 00:14:08.080
And since we don't have children and we're both older, the I didn't care if I didn't do anything on the weekends.
00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:11.039
It was, this is this was my passion, my obsession.
00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:14.159
And I just didn't have enough hours in the day to do it.
00:14:14.480 --> 00:14:23.519
And the first thing when the business bug kind of bit me, and I was thinking I could do this from home, obviously, because we're all locked down.
00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:26.320
I don't even know where I got the idea to do a porch pickup.
00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:32.320
I honestly think I think I was the first person in my community to do any of that.
00:14:32.480 --> 00:14:35.440
But I I don't know that I got the idea from anybody else.
00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:38.639
I just don't really remember, but I could sell it from home.
00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:50.559
And before I did anything moving forward, I did a ton of research on the internet about the laws in my state of what can I legally sell?
00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:58.720
I mean, when I did the jams and jellies in the past, I knew when you're giving people something to ingest, you've got to be really careful.
00:14:58.960 --> 00:15:02.080
You don't want to open yourself up to liability.
00:15:02.240 --> 00:15:05.200
So it was really important that I understood what I was legally allowed to do.
00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:11.279
And then that opened the whole well, Oregon really sucks with their cottage food law.
00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:14.080
I didn't even know it was called cottage food at that time.
00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:16.080
So I was learning so much.
00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:22.879
And then like really slowly transitioning into this idea of selling the bread from my front porch.
00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:23.440
Okay.
00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:34.480
Without having to interact with anybody, which was a dream for me because I'm an introvert, which is why I love social media, and I don't have to really interact with anybody that I can like show up and leave.
00:15:34.639 --> 00:15:37.519
Um I was just having this conversation.
00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:41.679
I was just having this conversation with Balin yesterday.
00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:44.399
I am an extreme introvert.
00:15:45.440 --> 00:15:47.519
And I think most bakers are.
00:15:47.759 --> 00:15:48.559
I really do.
00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:54.879
And so this idea of just popping it out on the front porch and I don't really have to talk to anyone, not because I don't want to.
00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:57.279
It's just like I'm awkward sometimes.
00:15:57.360 --> 00:15:58.080
And so it's nice.
00:15:58.559 --> 00:15:59.360
Like, go get it.
00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:00.080
And I love you.
00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:01.200
I love you so much.
00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:03.919
But just like get your bread and like bye-bye.
00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:04.639
I love you.
00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:06.399
Um, so it's nice.
00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:07.919
I can totally relate to that.
00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:08.639
Continue.
00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:12.720
So you're you're having these ideas, you want to sell your bread.
00:16:12.799 --> 00:16:14.559
You're very responsible, good job.
00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:17.600
You're thinking, I need to make sure that this is legal.
00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:24.000
So you're researching the Oregon cottage food laws, you're finding out that they're less than ideal.
00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:25.759
What happens next?
00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:39.759
So that was a that really deflated my excitement because at that time, the cottage food law in Oregon or the food exemption, home cooking exemption law, I think is what it was, was introduced in 2016.
00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:44.639
And it was really just to let like hobby bakers kind of do a little something here and there.
00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:49.039
So it really wasn't supporting any kind of like realistic business.
00:16:49.279 --> 00:16:53.759
Just for instance, the the gross sales cap was$20,000.
00:16:54.080 --> 00:16:56.000
That's gross annual sales.
00:16:56.320 --> 00:16:59.679
After expenses, let's say you get to take home 30% of that.
00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:05.920
And I'm thinking, well, that's just not even worth effort to, you know, for being a realistic business.
00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:09.359
So my question was, how does a bill become a law?
00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:11.519
I want to like make a change.
00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:17.759
And so I don't know if you're familiar with David Craybill with forager.com.
00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:25.680
He's one of the websites that I came across in my investigative internet research.
00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:42.319
And he, I have to say, forager.com is probably the foremost cottage food website still to this day, where you can go in and find out what's happening in every state across the country with cottage food law and what you're allowed to do and not allowed to do.
00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:49.839
And I started subscribing to his newsletter, and he was responsible for helping get California update their law.
00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:52.160
So he was the first person I reached out to.
00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:56.880
Sent him an email, and he was not able to help me with Oregon.
00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:08.640
He was preoccupied with some other projects, but he directed me to the Institute for Justice, which is a nonprofit legal and advocacy group in Washington, DC.
00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:10.880
I did not do any of this alone.
00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:18.240
I built a team of people to help me, and thankfully had people who were willing to talk to me and walk me through the whole process.
00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:20.079
But I had to do the heavy lifting.
00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:21.440
None of this was done for us.
00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:28.319
I reached out to the Institute for Justice, told them how our law was and gave them the specifics of that.
00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:31.599
And they're big advocates for the cottage food industry.
00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:45.119
And so they took on Oregon and they basically said, all right, get a group of people together, other bakers that want to participate in this very grassroots effort, and we will guide you along the way.
00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:48.720
And I started a closed Facebook group.
00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:52.319
I think it was called Reform for Oregon Cottage Food Law.
00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:58.799
And I went to other cottage food groups I found on Facebook and I started promoting that I had this group.
00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:02.559
And did anybody want to come aboard and help change the legislation?
00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:09.519
And pretty soon we had a few hundred people in this group, and we were the pioneers of getting this going.
00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:14.000
We had to send emails constantly to all the legislators in our state.
00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:16.880
It was a really cool group of home bakers.
00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:20.400
So we pretty much just sent the emails.
00:19:20.559 --> 00:19:27.279
Here's what the law is, here's why Oregon is one of the worst in the country presently, comparatively.
00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:29.279
And this is what we want to change it to.
00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:34.799
And we had to get a senator or somebody from the Senate to sponsor the bill.
00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:35.759
And we we did.
00:19:35.839 --> 00:19:40.319
We finally got Senator Tim Canope to step up and sponsor the bill.
00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:42.000
And then it just went from there.
00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:46.960
It went to the Senate first, it had to go through all these committees, then it had to go to the House second.
00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:49.519
Anyway, this is probably like more nuts and bolts you want to know.
00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:55.519
No, I think that if people want to make change, they need to know that there's a lot of work and people involved.
00:19:55.599 --> 00:20:05.359
And it's it's really interesting to hear the process because my only knowledge of turning a bill into a law is what I learned from school of rock, the cartoon when I was in middle school.
00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:06.319
So I'm learning a lot.
00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:06.880
I'm taking notes.
00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:09.119
There's a song or something about it.
00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:11.440
It's like the bill becomes a law.
00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:11.839
I don't know.
00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:16.480
It's like I'm just imagining these little cartoons dancing around in my head, but I'm like, oh, you can actually do this.
00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:17.599
And then what happened?
00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:25.920
So before it gets voted on in either chamber, you have to go through all these committees and you have to show up and give verbal testimonies.
00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:27.279
So many of us did that.
00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:31.279
Many of us testified many times during this whole process.
00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:36.720
So the bill passed in 2023.
00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:39.039
Then we had to get the governor to sign it.
00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:41.119
The governor could have just squashed the whole thing.
00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:45.680
So the governor signed it and then brought him a bunch of bread beforehand.
00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:46.720
I'm just kidding.
00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:50.079
Yeah, no, I would have if I had been locally.
00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:50.319
Yeah.
00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:52.880
Um yeah, right.
00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:55.039
Pay him off under the table with a loaf of bread.
00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:56.480
Here's some focaccia.
00:20:56.720 --> 00:20:57.599
Yeah, really, really.
00:20:57.759 --> 00:21:02.480
So then the law, the bill was written up actually to backtrack a little bit.
00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:11.680
The Institute for Justice took the language and all of the things we wanted as home bakers, the changes we wanted, and they wrote it into the bill format.
00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:19.359
So the bill was signed into law, and then after it goes into effect, the Oregon Department of Agriculture then gets hold of it.
00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:26.559
And they get to write up all the rules on their end that they want, which can be totally different than what we just had passed.
00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:36.240
And some of it was, and we had to go to battle a little bit with them and say, look, no, this is what the law says, and this rule you're coming up with really contradicts that.
00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:37.519
So we had to work with them.
00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:43.440
So we weren't able to really start doing things legally by the new law until June of 2024.
00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:56.000
So full six months into the the following year that we were able to then wholesale and our sales limit went up, and we were able to engage in e commerce and ship our products.
00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:59.359
Those were the new wow, those were the changes.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:18.799
You are really a determined person because that was a very long journey and you did not give up and you stuck with it and you rallied people in the community and you saw it through to the end and made real significant change happen.
00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:31.359
And I bet you a lot of people who bake in Oregon or have a cottage bakery in Oregon might not even realize what had to happen for them to be able to get their certification.
00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:33.039
Yeah, no, that's true.
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:33.759
That's evident.
00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:36.319
I could have named it Jenny's bill, but you know.
00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:43.200
I haven't I would have been like, this is the Alley White Cottage Baking Law Bill.
00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:48.240
I don't really, I mean, it's I don't I don't know.
00:22:48.319 --> 00:22:51.279
I it's a big deal, but I don't promote it a lot.
00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:57.519
And people have asked me if I would be willing to kind of coach them on how you go about this.
00:22:57.759 --> 00:22:59.519
And I've just never had an interest in that.
00:22:59.599 --> 00:23:03.680
I I direct them to the Institute for Justice or Forager.com.
00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:07.759
Go find what's happening in your state right now and join them.
00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:08.480
Yeah.
00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:12.160
That's an incredible story and one that I was not aware of.
00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:23.039
I knew a little bit about it because of some things that you've mentioned on social media, but I don't think I was aware as to the depth and length of time that took.
00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:27.599
So congratulations on that win because that's a really big deal.
00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:29.680
I'm not a cottage food baker anymore.
00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:34.960
I actually got inspected and licensed as a domestic kitchen.
00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:38.640
So I'm no longer encumbered by the cottage food laws.
00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:41.359
I can bake food that requires refrigeration now.
00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:45.920
It doesn't have to just be shelf stable and not limited by sales caps anymore.
00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:50.960
Yes, we have something similar in California, although I don't think sourdough is allowed on it.
00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:54.960
There's a Miko, which is everything has to be made within 24 hours.
00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:56.240
And I was like, well, that's not gonna work.
00:23:56.319 --> 00:23:58.000
Sourdough takes 48 hours.
00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:06.319
So it's important for listeners to know that every state has different laws, names, abbreviations, and things.
00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:18.720
And it's really important to do the research, find out these income caps of gross sales, just so that you're picking the right thing, especially based off of which one allows you to make which kind of foods, right?
00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:19.279
Yes.
00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:20.640
Yeah, exactly.
00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:25.279
So for me, it was mostly the income, the sales cap per year.
00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:26.799
My husband retired.
00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:31.200
So my income from the bakery is our main source, it's not the only source.
00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:36.559
And so 50,000 wasn't gonna cut it still as a cottage baker.
00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:49.039
So in Oregon, it's nice that we have that ability to become a licensed domestic kitchen, but you have to have certain things going on in your space that allow for that.
00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:52.720
And the other important thing, too, was having pets in the home.
00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:55.200
That was something that we asked for and got.
00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:57.680
Most people have a pet in the home.
00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:04.559
And back when I started, you couldn't even be a cottage maker if you had a dog or a cat or even a fish.
00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:09.279
I mean, you have to disclose on our labeling what kind of pet you have, even if it's um a lizard.
00:25:09.359 --> 00:25:10.000
I'm not kidding.
00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:12.079
You have to have that on the label.
00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:13.119
Yikes.
00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:15.920
But they're not allowed in the kitchen when you're preparing food.
00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:17.440
So it's just common sense.
00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:28.640
I have worked a lot of places in my almost 40 years of life, and the things going on in the kitchens where I worked were scary.
00:25:29.200 --> 00:25:30.160
Oh, yeah.
00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:40.559
Compared to how clean my house is and how clean other cottage baking houses and kitchens I've been to, they're immaculate.
00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:44.799
And I'm like, man, these rules are real strict.
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:46.640
Where were you when I was working at?
00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:49.519
I won't say where, but it's pretty crazy.
00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:52.000
Um it's interesting.
00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:56.720
Well, that is a wonderful story, and it's only part of your story.
00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:03.920
I mean, that's a huge deal, but besides that, you also are making an incredible amount of bread every single week.
00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:13.680
And on top of that, you are posting on social media quite frequently, which I'm learning is basically a part-time job, if not a full-time job.
00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:19.119
How many loaves are you baking per week?
00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:23.279
Right now in my busy season, it's 230.
00:26:23.599 --> 00:26:27.519
And that's a set number because I am strictly wholesale now.
00:26:27.920 --> 00:26:39.279
I eliminated all customer, direct customer, and any kind of pickups here at the house, or I had another pickup location that was just so 230 a week.
00:26:39.599 --> 00:26:44.880
So split into two days or four days basically, but let's talk about this.
00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:54.319
So you are doing wholesale sales, which in case someone doesn't know, that means you are selling to, for example, a grocery store.
00:26:54.480 --> 00:27:04.240
They're buying it from you for a certain amount, and then they are buying them all at once, I'm assuming, and then reselling them to their customers, probably for a small profit.
00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:05.759
That is what wholesale is.
00:27:05.839 --> 00:27:11.279
And so you're doing 230 loaves a week wholesale to how many different stores?
00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:12.480
Five.
00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:13.200
Great.
00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:14.240
I only have five.
00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:20.480
So three of them are farm stands, two of them are seasonal farm stands that will be shutting down in October.
00:27:20.720 --> 00:27:24.480
I have two grocery stores and one year-round farm stand.
00:27:24.559 --> 00:27:28.240
So come winter time is stressful.
00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:32.319
Winter is slower anyway for most bakers.
00:27:32.559 --> 00:27:36.880
This year, because this is the first year I've gone totally 100% wholesale.
00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:41.599
I don't have the customer orders to carry me through winter anymore.
00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:54.319
So I'm planning how I'm gonna replace the farm stands that close in October, have something in through the winter, but then I still want to honor the farm stands in May.
00:27:54.559 --> 00:27:59.279
So I'm trying to be creative in how that's gonna all work out for me this winter.
00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:07.359
Well, hopefully someone who's listening is in your area and they will have an idea and they will be very excited to have you in their space.
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:10.960
I'm going to believe that and manifest that for you.
00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:14.720
And if you've shown us anything, it's that you will figure it out.
00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:16.240
You absolutely will.
00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:18.000
That's an interesting pivot.
00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:26.319
What do you think the benefits are of doing wholesale versus D2C direct to consumer?
00:28:27.440 --> 00:28:32.000
I found wholesale for me is more predictable income.
00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:33.119
I take a cut.
00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:39.519
There's obviously I'm selling to those people at a reduced price so they can market up.
00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:42.240
And I get asked this a lot, and I'm transparent about it.
00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:43.759
And every store is going to be a little different.
00:28:43.839 --> 00:28:50.799
You want to have your conversation with the manager, but I sell at 70% of my retail, and so they have a 30% markup.
00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:54.240
And that's about as slim as they want to go.
00:28:54.480 --> 00:29:02.559
Most, I've been hearing most stores are more favorable towards a 35, 65% split.
00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:12.160
So it's more work to maintain the income that I'm used to with direct customers, but customers are fickle.
00:29:12.400 --> 00:29:13.759
I love my customers.
00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:23.279
And from week to week, I always felt like I was chasing them so I can know that I'm gonna have this much money coming in because I know I've got these kinds of bills coming up.
00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:24.960
And it was stressful for me.
00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:31.039
So while I'm taking a cut, it's more calming for me to have that predictable.
00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:36.559
I know what I'm getting every month through the wholesale accounts through through this season, through this period.
00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:38.400
That's the benefit for me.
00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:45.839
I would like to talk about this a little bit more because I thankfully my customers, I know them really well.
00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:47.519
They're quite predictable.
00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:49.759
They're used to my pattern of baking now.
00:29:49.839 --> 00:29:50.799
I'm the opposite of you.
00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:58.240
I bake heavily in the late summer, fall, and winter, and then I take late spring and summer off because my kids are out of school.
00:29:58.559 --> 00:30:12.720
But I will agree with you that sometimes I don't remember that it's like spring break and everyone's gone, and I thought I was going to make X amount of dollars, and now I'm making X amount of dollars and I have bills coming up or whatever, and I get a little bit stressed out.
00:30:13.839 --> 00:30:29.279
What you're describing is moving to a different model where you have a set number of loaves that has already been agreed upon by the wholesale account, what they're buying, what they're paying, and you just basically deliver it.
00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:32.000
And how many days a week are you doing that?
00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:33.200
Twice a week.
00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:34.079
Twice a week.
00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:34.559
Okay.
00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:40.400
I have prep days on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and then my bake and delivery days are Wednesdays and Fridays.
00:30:40.720 --> 00:30:41.039
Great.
00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:57.759
I think that this is a very reasonable alternative for someone who doesn't like the uh unpredictability of customer weekly orders because you know what you're getting with this situation, even though the dollars are less, they're consistent, right?
00:30:58.400 --> 00:30:58.480
Right.
00:30:58.799 --> 00:31:00.720
So, how did you find those accounts?
00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:03.759
What was it like to be able to secure those accounts?
00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:05.839
Did it involve a contract?
00:31:06.079 --> 00:31:11.359
If someone's listening to this and they're like, man, these these weekly bakes, I'm I need something different.
00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:13.119
I need to know how many dollars I'm making.
00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:19.039
I can't be susceptible to vacation times and this and that off people traveling, whatever.
00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:22.000
And I want to have wholesale accounts, where would they start?
00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:24.880
Would they just walk into a grocery store and be like, what's up?
00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:26.799
I make sourdough, you want to try some?
00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:28.480
Like, how does that work?
00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:30.559
Yeah, that's a good question.
00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:33.920
Because when I kind of went this direction, I had those same questions.
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:34.240
Yeah.
00:31:34.480 --> 00:31:35.519
I picked up the phone.
00:31:35.759 --> 00:31:38.160
So rather than just walking in, I picked up the phone.
00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:40.960
And you remember phones, we're all used to texting.
00:31:41.119 --> 00:31:52.960
I always tell people to call, just pick up the phone, call, talk to the store manager, make an appointment to come in, to introduce yourself, tell them what you're doing, um, and make the appointment come in.
00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:56.799
I would always bring a loaf of bread to give, yeah, and we'd sit down and chat.
00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:00.559
And the same thing, the the conversation on the phone is very short.
00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:02.640
It's set the time, okay, come on in.
00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:08.480
I mean, if they want to meet with you and explore this, and it's bring your wholesale sheet, bring your items on your menu.
00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:10.480
So you want to have that prepared.
00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:11.359
I have that.
00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:14.079
It's just a very simple Excel spreadsheet.
00:32:14.240 --> 00:32:18.160
I have my loaves, what the wholesale is, and suggested retail.
00:32:18.400 --> 00:32:18.640
Okay.
00:32:18.880 --> 00:32:20.160
Um, that's what I do.
00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:24.160
And I also just recently added per delivery$5 delivery fee.
00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:29.119
This is a very new fee just because of the way gas prices are right now.
00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:33.279
And I'm driving, it's about 150 miles a week.
00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:37.839
So that's a lot of wear and tear on your car, in addition to fuel.
00:32:38.079 --> 00:32:46.079
And I think$5 rather than raising prices, which I haven't done in a couple of years, I've tried to really keep that stable.
00:32:46.160 --> 00:32:49.759
I'm like at the top end in my community, and I don't want to go higher.
00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:57.440
So the$5 fee, that's gonna bring in probably another, maybe another$180 a month, which is great.
00:32:57.839 --> 00:32:59.119
That's gonna cover my fuel.
00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:02.400
You go in, you meet with the manager, and there's no contract.
00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:03.440
That's the other thing I thought.
00:33:03.599 --> 00:33:10.720
I had this whole thing template I found to protect me, and I emailed it to the first grocery store I was in, and he was like, What is this?
00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:14.480
He goes, I don't have this with any other vendor in the entire store.
00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:16.240
So you don't have to worry about that.
00:33:16.400 --> 00:33:22.480
It's just very much like handshake and communication with the bakery manager and the store manager.
00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:28.880
Are they flexible if you're like, hey friend, I need a week off and I'm not gonna be there?
00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:30.000
They're just like, that's cool.
00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:35.359
Yeah, they say just bring a sign in and they will post it in like the rack space that I'm normally in.
00:33:35.759 --> 00:33:36.960
Jenny is a K.
00:33:37.359 --> 00:33:40.400
Yes, and I make announcements on social media and everything.
00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:43.359
So hopefully people hear about it that I'm gone.
00:33:43.759 --> 00:33:44.720
Awesome.
00:33:45.119 --> 00:33:46.880
And that's great.
00:33:47.039 --> 00:34:00.480
I think that this really encourages people to what I'm what I've been saying in a lot of the interviews that we're having, and what a lot of bakers have been saying is make connections with people in real life.
00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:20.079
Call them on the phone, use your vocal cords to have a conversation with them, set up a date and time, bring them a loaf of bread, sit down at a table, be prepared with your pricing, and have it be a handshake deal and really good communication.
00:34:20.320 --> 00:34:33.599
I think not, I don't know necessarily people our age, but people younger than us, sometimes they think they're a little bit fearful of those in-person, I'm not really sure what that's about, but the in-person conversations and the chit chat.
00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:37.039
Um and not and even just older people too.
00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:40.559
I think that COVID kind of tucked us all away.
00:34:40.719 --> 00:34:46.480
And so we're still kind of coming out and and redeveloping and rehealing those relationships in person.
00:34:46.800 --> 00:35:14.559
And you're just saying know the people in your community, show them your face, be kind, bring them a loaf, and develop that relationship so that you have these opportunities to be able to have wholesale accounts because really they're not just buying your bread, they're they have a relationship with you and they like you and they respect you, and you show them the same respect and communication and care, I'm sure.
00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:15.199
Yeah.
00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:24.639
And it's if people want to start out with a locally owned grocery store, it's a lot less intimidating than like going to like maybe Whole Foods, which I would probably never.
00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:31.840
I it just seems so big corporate and a lot of I don't know headache involved with that.
00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:37.760
A lot of most of the other grocery stores and I'm in are family owned, locally owned, have been here for a long time.
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:38.400
Yes.
00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:39.840
Whole Foods used to be like that.
00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:50.719
I worked there for a while, uh long time ago, 2007, before they were owned by someone else, and it was all really like local kinds of things.
00:35:50.800 --> 00:35:52.480
But you're right now, it's it's changed.
00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:55.119
It's very it feels more corporate, maybe.
00:35:55.599 --> 00:36:04.880
Um, and you're right, the local grocery stores, it makes a lot of sense, especially if you're using any local ingredients and supporting local grain.
00:36:04.960 --> 00:36:06.800
It kind of all tells the same story.
00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:08.400
And it's it's very laid back.
00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:13.920
And they appoint all the appointments I've had have not been these intense interviews or anything like that.
00:36:14.079 --> 00:36:19.519
So if you're feeling intimidated, just know, yeah, these local stores, they really want to be a part of the community.
00:36:19.599 --> 00:36:22.400
They want to support the makers in the community.
00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:23.920
So that's a great place to start.
00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:24.880
You'll get good reception.
00:36:24.960 --> 00:36:28.719
The other thing I wanted to just tie into that too is payment terms.
00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:30.559
Really advocate for yourself.
00:36:30.719 --> 00:36:35.840
I let the manager know my payment terms are either net seven or net 15.
00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:37.760
Cash flow for me is really important.
00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:41.119
I'm very small and I'm buying ingredients weekly.
00:36:41.360 --> 00:36:47.760
For me to wait a month for payment would be more pressure than I'm comfortable with.
00:36:48.159 --> 00:36:51.199
I think that net seven, net 15 is more than fair.
00:36:51.360 --> 00:37:01.039
What Jenny is describing is you get your check, your cut, your payment within seven to 15 days of delivery.
00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:02.480
Right.
00:37:02.719 --> 00:37:12.559
And so you want to be very clear because I have found myself in this pickle before where I dropped something off and I was like, my dollars, like, pay me my money.
00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:14.880
And I did not get that money for over a month.
00:37:14.960 --> 00:37:16.639
And I, that was my bad, right?
00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:24.320
I didn't, I didn't know to say I need to be paid at this time for this relationship to work.
00:37:24.480 --> 00:37:26.159
So that was just a learning experience.
00:37:26.320 --> 00:37:31.760
But you already went through this and you're telling everyone kind of the tips to get these things going.
00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:44.880
This is actually not where I thought our conversation was going to go today, but I'm really glad that it is because these are things that I didn't know and things that I actually don't see talked about very frequently in the cottage baking space.
00:37:45.039 --> 00:37:58.880
And they're really important conversations because what's shown on Instagram is a lot of people uh baking at home and putting it on the porch, which is what I do.
00:37:59.199 --> 00:38:10.079
But there are a lot of other opportunities and avenues to bake and put to a grocery store or a supply to a sandwich shop or whatever.
00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:16.159
And these are important things to be thinking about if you're going to go down a different avenue for incoming.
00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:17.039
Yeah.
00:38:17.199 --> 00:38:17.360
Yeah.
00:38:17.760 --> 00:38:24.320
So thank you for thank you for bringing this new and fresh perspective because this is not a conversation that I've had before.
00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:25.199
Oh, good.
00:38:25.519 --> 00:38:26.719
Well, I'm glad to do it.
00:38:27.039 --> 00:38:28.400
Yeah, this has been great.
00:38:28.639 --> 00:38:33.599
Can we talk a little bit about your time management as far as?
00:38:34.079 --> 00:38:42.239
So if you're making, you said 230 loaves a week, that's 115 loaves each baked day, right?
00:38:42.320 --> 00:38:44.320
Because you're baking twice a week.
00:38:44.639 --> 00:38:46.159
That's a lot of bread.
00:38:46.400 --> 00:39:00.159
Can you just briefly walk us through your schedule from waking up and opening your beautiful eyes in the morning to delivering your packaged loaves at the grocery store?
00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:00.719
Sure.
00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:04.159
It doesn't need to be like every detail, but just give us like a flow.
00:39:04.559 --> 00:39:04.960
Sure.
00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:11.840
So what I found it works for me is on my dough prep days, getting up at five.
00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:12.159
Okay.
00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:15.599
It could be later, because I'm usually done by about two.
00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:16.239
Okay.
00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:24.079
But I'd rather I'd rather be done early and go sit outside, you know, kick my kick my feet up or whatever, go take a bath or something.
00:39:24.239 --> 00:39:28.960
But um, so five o'clock and that's my prep day.
00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:33.679
Then bake day though is kind of more grueling um three o'clock a.m.
00:39:34.079 --> 00:39:44.400
I had started at 2 30 when I first started doing, you know, amped up the production quantity just to make sure I wasn't going to be running late.
00:39:44.559 --> 00:39:46.159
But three o'clock works for me.
00:39:46.239 --> 00:39:47.280
So I'm in this rhythm now.
00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:50.480
I load the car, I'm out the door by about 9 30 a.m.
00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:51.599
to do deliveries.
00:39:51.679 --> 00:39:56.719
So from three to about eight, things are baking still.
00:39:56.960 --> 00:39:58.320
So maybe five, five hours.
00:39:58.400 --> 00:39:58.800
Is that right?
00:39:58.960 --> 00:39:59.119
Okay.
00:39:59.280 --> 00:40:01.440
Yep, that's about what I am at to five hours.
00:40:01.519 --> 00:40:02.480
That sounds correct.
00:40:03.679 --> 00:40:05.280
Two uh two ovens running.
00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:08.800
Um, and they start preheating at like one in the morning or something.
00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:10.639
I put them on an appliance timer.
00:40:10.880 --> 00:40:17.039
So out the door delivering, do all my deliveries, and then I'm home by 12:30 or 1:30.
00:40:17.199 --> 00:40:17.760
Just depending.
00:40:17.920 --> 00:40:19.519
I do my errands when I'm in town.
00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:21.599
We're like 25 miles south of town.
00:40:21.679 --> 00:40:25.119
So again, the delivery fee for me made sense.
00:40:25.280 --> 00:40:31.599
It's a 25-mile drive just to get into Bend where my stores are.
00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:32.800
Yeah.
00:40:33.280 --> 00:40:37.519
So that's actually, I mean, three o'clock, that's early.
00:40:38.079 --> 00:40:39.840
I'm not gonna sugarcoat it for anybody.
00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:41.119
That's pretty early.
00:40:41.440 --> 00:40:50.000
But you are done, done and dusted by 12 30, and you've run all your errands, and I'm assuming you probably need to go to bed earlier that night.
00:40:50.079 --> 00:40:50.800
Or I don't know.
00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:59.840
Sometimes I get really uh weirdly energized when I've had less sleep on bake days, and I then I end up staying up too late, and then it's just like this cycle.
00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:03.760
But um that's it's a great schedule.
00:41:04.400 --> 00:41:04.639
Yeah.
00:41:05.679 --> 00:41:06.719
Eight o'clock bedtime.
00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:09.519
Eight o'clock bedtime every night.
00:41:10.400 --> 00:41:12.320
You're describing my my dream.
00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:12.880
Yeah.
00:41:13.840 --> 00:41:18.960
My kids go to bed around that time, and sometimes I just crawl in bed with them, and I'm like, night night.
00:41:19.280 --> 00:41:21.840
Um, I do really love to go to bed early.
00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:31.760
So you have been able to make enough income by having that schedule and doing twice a week deliveries.
00:41:32.480 --> 00:41:33.440
That's really inspiring.
00:41:34.079 --> 00:41:36.880
230 is my max capacity.
00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:44.320
That's refrigerator capacity, that's wear and tear on my body capacity, that's what I can fit in my car.
00:41:44.559 --> 00:41:46.719
I have an SUV capacity.
00:41:46.960 --> 00:41:55.440
I really couldn't go more if I wanted to without hiring help, which as a domestic kitchen, I think I'm prohibited from that.
00:41:55.599 --> 00:41:57.679
It would have to be a family member that helps me.
00:41:57.920 --> 00:41:58.159
Okay.
00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:00.079
Um that was going to be my next question.
00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:01.440
Do you have any help?
00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:02.559
No, I don't.
00:42:02.719 --> 00:42:03.599
I do everything.
00:42:03.760 --> 00:42:09.119
And I know one of the things maybe we wanted to talk about was sustainable growth and how do we grow?
00:42:09.199 --> 00:42:12.559
And I'm actually not interested in growing.
00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:25.519
I'm really my focus is quality of life, and I'm earning enough to live, live here, pay my bills, have a vacation once in a while.
00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:28.320
I'm not built, I'm not trying to build an empire at my age.
00:42:28.480 --> 00:42:36.079
If I were younger, maybe, but I'm looking to retire soon and maybe sell my business or transition into teaching classes.
00:42:36.239 --> 00:42:39.440
I mean, my body will only give me so many years.
00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:42.159
So I'm not going to kill myself between now and then.
00:42:42.320 --> 00:42:49.199
I'm really looking to not burn out, to bring in an income that uh we can live on.
00:42:49.599 --> 00:42:51.599
And that's pretty much it.
00:42:51.679 --> 00:42:53.519
I that wasn't it at the beginning for me.
00:42:53.599 --> 00:42:54.960
I was wanting an empire.
00:42:55.119 --> 00:43:09.840
But then I really, when you get into the actual doing of it and realizing the demands, the physical, the emotional, the mental, the sleep, then you go, hmm, is an empire what I really want?
00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:14.400
I have a lot of respect for what you're saying because I get the same questions.
00:43:14.559 --> 00:43:16.800
And I think it's a normal question to ask a person.
00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:18.400
It's low-hanging fruit.
00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:21.039
What are your goals for your business?
00:43:21.199 --> 00:43:23.920
Do you ever see yourself opening a brick and mortar?
00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:26.000
Do you want to write a book?
00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:34.960
These kinds of questions are normal, but I really have a lot of respect for the person who says, I'm actually very happy with how things are.
00:43:35.199 --> 00:43:41.360
I'm very happy with my twice a week schedule, something that is healthy for my body.
00:43:41.599 --> 00:43:48.400
It's good for my mental health, and it helps me pay my bills, and it's the exact lifestyle that I want to live.
00:43:48.480 --> 00:43:52.960
It's okay to just be happy with what you have.
00:43:53.119 --> 00:43:59.760
You don't always need to be wanting more, chasing more, getting less sleep, going big.
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:01.760
Hustle culture.
00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:03.360
It doesn't have to be that way.
00:44:03.679 --> 00:44:08.480
It's okay to say I want to live a more simple life.
00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:09.280
Exactly.
00:44:09.440 --> 00:44:10.719
And just be happy.
00:44:11.119 --> 00:44:19.440
I I was thinking too, my worst day in the bakery is still a better day than commuting to work somewhere and working for somebody else.
00:44:21.519 --> 00:44:21.920
Yeah.
00:44:22.159 --> 00:44:26.719
So I when I when I am having those days, I have to think, well, you know, it could be different.
00:44:26.960 --> 00:44:27.840
It could be a lot different.
00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:33.920
It's healthy to know what you want, who you are, and where your boundaries are.
00:44:34.079 --> 00:44:40.159
I think that is the true testament of strength and just really knowing yourself.
00:44:40.960 --> 00:44:49.599
And this will kind of take me to my last topic, and then we'll go to my last question that I always ask everyone.
00:44:49.840 --> 00:44:56.079
But your social media account is booming.
00:44:56.800 --> 00:45:01.679
And I would like to know was that always your intention?
00:45:01.840 --> 00:45:08.719
Were you expecting to have such a big presence on social media, or was that kind of a surprise to you?
00:45:09.119 --> 00:45:10.320
It was a surprise.
00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:13.760
Um when I started, I wasn't on Instagram.
00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:20.159
I remember my very first account was called Zelda Rising, which is the name of my starter, Zelda.
00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:29.280
And I just started posting pictures and I started following other bakers on Instagram as part of my learning.
00:45:29.519 --> 00:45:31.360
But yeah, no, I wasn't expecting it.
00:45:31.440 --> 00:45:32.400
It's grown really slow.
00:45:32.480 --> 00:45:33.679
It's grown organically.
00:45:33.840 --> 00:45:38.880
I mean, there's there are bakers who came after me who are 200,000 plus.
00:45:39.280 --> 00:45:39.440
Yeah.
00:45:39.679 --> 00:45:44.960
You don't see too many women in their 50s approaching retirement, no children.
00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:47.760
So I think part of my slower growth has been attributed to that.
00:45:47.920 --> 00:45:50.000
I just don't, there's just not the audience for that.
00:45:50.159 --> 00:45:53.039
They don't really get when I talk about that I have no hormones.
00:45:53.280 --> 00:45:56.559
So I'm going to say it like I'm like they're like, what?
00:45:56.800 --> 00:45:58.000
I don't get that.
00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:04.400
But um, you know, it's but yeah, it it goes in waves the social media growth.
00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:11.119
And it's finally getting to the point where I'm getting approached to collab and I'm starting to learn more about how that works.
00:46:11.519 --> 00:46:16.000
You do get pretty good income from certain partnerships.
00:46:16.239 --> 00:46:16.480
Sure.
00:46:16.639 --> 00:46:19.760
Um, but then again, you don't want to turn into a total commercial.
00:46:20.079 --> 00:46:23.119
That's the other thing is I don't people get turned off by that.
00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:25.599
I I couldn't agree with you more.
00:46:25.920 --> 00:46:33.920
And I have like six followers, so I'm not one to be like, oh, this is a problem that I have right now because it's sh it's not.
00:46:34.159 --> 00:46:45.519
Uh but I wonder because of like you, I think I have a little bit of a different voice than what's typically seen in the cottage baking space.
00:46:45.760 --> 00:46:52.880
Um I am an alternative girly, like uh working with a lot of whole grains.
00:46:53.039 --> 00:46:58.719
I'm teaching professionally, I'm not making these fast cut videos with like trending audio.
00:46:58.880 --> 00:47:08.559
You're also not doing that, and you're you're representing a different community of women who are baking, they're not stay-at-home moms, like we're we're in our lanes, right?
00:47:09.599 --> 00:47:37.440
And I wonder, and I don't know if I'll keep this in or cut this out, but I wonder sometimes if I dip into what you're describing, which is monetizing through collaborations or monetizing through um affiliate links, will I lose the respect that I've worked very, very hard to get from my six followers of you know more than that.
00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:42.159
I didn't, I didn't, and this I am not casting shade on anyone.
00:47:42.239 --> 00:47:43.920
Like, get your money, girl.
00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:45.840
However, you're getting it, get paid.
00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:56.719
But what I'm saying is I I worry that I would lose my identity a bit if I relied on affiliate links and kind of got paid that way.
00:47:56.960 --> 00:47:59.840
I just don't know how those two things mesh.
00:47:59.920 --> 00:48:02.559
And I spend a lot of time thinking about it because it would be cool.
00:48:02.719 --> 00:48:08.320
It'd be really cool to have a lot more followers and get paid through collaborations and other things.
00:48:08.400 --> 00:48:14.079
But like you said, sometimes it can be a little bit people don't always like it.
00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:18.559
Um and we want to bring joy to people because we make bread.
00:48:18.800 --> 00:48:20.800
So that's something that I really struggle with.
00:48:20.960 --> 00:48:38.320
So when you when you end up going over that hurdle and kind of figuring it out, which I know you will, you'll have to tell me how that feels, uh, what relationships felt organic and others felt forced or what that journey is like, because I'm very curious.
00:48:38.400 --> 00:48:44.960
And I think there's people who are doing it well, but I don't know how to do it, is I guess what I'm saying.
00:48:45.360 --> 00:48:49.039
Well, I think if you find a partnership, so I have a couple of them.
00:48:49.199 --> 00:48:51.920
It's like what I'm already doing in the bakery anyway.
00:48:52.159 --> 00:48:54.079
Like Avery Labels, for instance.
00:48:54.400 --> 00:48:56.639
Um I have a little collab with them.
00:48:57.199 --> 00:49:08.880
And it's I use them anyway, and people are always looking for packaging tips, or I get DMs a lot about my bags or okay, my label, who creates your labels and that kind of thing.
00:49:08.960 --> 00:49:21.679
So if it feels like it's a natural extension of what you're already doing, you can make a reel that's entertaining with the educational points in it, maybe just 60 seconds long.
00:49:22.159 --> 00:49:26.719
And so far, I haven't gotten any kind of blowback from it.
00:49:27.039 --> 00:49:30.400
That is a really good point because you're already using it.
00:49:30.559 --> 00:49:32.400
You've already stood behind this product.
00:49:32.480 --> 00:49:38.639
It's not like suddenly you're promoting some new thing that you haven't it hasn't stood the test of time with you.
00:49:38.719 --> 00:49:42.880
It's something that you love and are organically using.
00:49:42.960 --> 00:49:44.639
So it makes sense for that.
00:49:44.800 --> 00:49:47.760
That's that's actually a very good tip and a very good point.
00:49:48.159 --> 00:49:48.559
Yeah.
00:49:48.800 --> 00:49:54.880
And it's kind of fun because sometimes you struggle with content, like what am I gonna make that somebody's might gonna find interesting?
00:49:54.960 --> 00:49:55.519
And sure.
00:49:55.760 --> 00:50:07.840
So for me, it's nice because I'm kind of given the topic, yeah, you know, or the product, then I can put something out there that can be of benefit to another baker.
00:50:08.400 --> 00:50:09.119
That's right.
00:50:09.440 --> 00:50:20.719
And help them sift through the noise because there's a lot of choices out there when it comes to an oven, a label, a bread bag.
00:50:20.800 --> 00:50:33.199
And so if they see someone that they know and trust like you, they can say I know that Jenny's been using these labels for three years and she loves them, so I'm gonna buy them too.
00:50:33.599 --> 00:50:35.920
Yeah, that's a really nice way to look at it.
00:50:36.239 --> 00:50:37.360
Hold on just one second.
00:50:37.519 --> 00:50:37.840
Yeah.
00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:39.360
Hold on just one second.
00:50:39.440 --> 00:50:40.159
Hey, holding.
00:50:40.480 --> 00:50:44.320
Steve, would you would you put my LeBan in the fridge?
00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:45.039
Thanks.
00:50:45.119 --> 00:50:45.360
Okay.
00:50:46.880 --> 00:50:48.000
Zelda needs tending.
00:50:48.320 --> 00:50:50.079
Yeah, she needs to go in the fridge now overnight.
00:50:50.400 --> 00:50:51.360
She's a needy gal.
00:50:51.679 --> 00:50:52.159
That's Zelda.
00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:55.039
Yeah, she's dramatic.
00:50:57.039 --> 00:51:03.199
When I'm gone and and my husband has to take care of my starter, he's he's like, I gotta take notes.
00:51:03.360 --> 00:51:04.559
I don't want to mess it up.
00:51:04.719 --> 00:51:06.400
And I'm like, no, you really don't.
00:51:06.559 --> 00:51:08.079
You really don't want to mess it up.
00:51:08.559 --> 00:51:09.360
Exactly.
00:51:09.679 --> 00:51:10.639
Oh no, man.
00:51:10.880 --> 00:51:13.679
When I went to Italy, I had to teach Steve how to feed her twice a day.
00:51:13.760 --> 00:51:15.280
Oh my gosh, he was so nervous.
00:51:15.519 --> 00:51:15.760
Yeah.
00:51:15.920 --> 00:51:17.360
So he wasn't getting it.
00:51:17.440 --> 00:51:18.480
And I think I got on him.
00:51:18.559 --> 00:51:23.920
I was kind of I was kind of like mean to him about it, and he was like, never forgot it after that.
00:51:25.119 --> 00:51:26.960
I've had this chat on the pod too.
00:51:27.199 --> 00:51:31.199
The most mean I've ever been to my husband.
00:51:31.440 --> 00:51:42.000
I'm so sorry, Mike, is when I'm working, or I I think I had like accidentally deleted a bunch of spreadsheets I really needed, and I just lost it.
00:51:42.239 --> 00:51:47.440
And I was like, this isn't your fault, but you're here, so I'm just I'm yelling at you.
00:51:47.679 --> 00:51:50.960
But it was just like, he's like, You're a crazy person.
00:51:51.840 --> 00:51:53.119
Um yeah.
00:51:53.199 --> 00:51:53.360
Okay.
00:51:53.760 --> 00:51:54.480
Glad we're not alone.
00:51:55.440 --> 00:51:56.639
Thank God, right?
00:51:57.119 --> 00:52:14.239
We've had a wonderful, lovely chat, and it wasn't where I thought it was gonna go, which is my favorite part about doing this podcast, is that I have all of these little ideas, and then I I I see someone get excited about something, and I'm like, let's go, let's go down that and something new that hasn't already been said on the podcast.
00:52:14.320 --> 00:52:15.199
So thank you so much.
00:52:15.440 --> 00:52:19.519
This podcast is called Saving Bread.
00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:23.920
And that can mean a lot of different things to whoever hears it, right?
00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:26.639
Based off of their life experiences.
00:52:27.199 --> 00:52:38.079
And when you hear saving bread or when you think about the work that you're doing, what do you think needs protecting, preserving, or amplification?
00:52:38.159 --> 00:52:43.599
Like, what does saving bread mean to you in the time and space that you're in right now?
00:52:44.800 --> 00:52:47.360
I love that you named your podcast that.
00:52:47.599 --> 00:52:57.599
It encapsulates the whole idea of bread being a part of humanity for centuries.
00:52:58.239 --> 00:53:17.119
And when you think of saving bread, I think of we're living in an era of so much advancing technology, and things are moving farther and farther away from things that keep humanity connected.
00:53:17.440 --> 00:53:32.159
And bread is one of those things, you can look back through thousands and thousands of years, how often bread is mentioned in the Bible, for instance, or how much bread sustained a civilization or kept people alive at sea.
00:53:32.320 --> 00:53:37.679
The whole act of baking real bread, I think it's in everyone's DNA.
00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:42.960
I think everyone has the ability and the drive to want that.
00:53:43.119 --> 00:53:45.840
It's just part of who we are as people.
00:53:46.480 --> 00:53:51.360
And I love the bread revolution that we've been experiencing lately.
00:53:51.519 --> 00:54:09.280
People are coming back to that, moving away from what we call fake bread or chemical-filled bread or bread that's not long fermented, getting back to the root of something that is so simple, which is real bread, flour, water, wild yeast, and salt.
00:54:09.679 --> 00:54:15.679
So simple, but it's so complex and it's so intertwined with humans.
00:54:16.480 --> 00:54:18.719
And it's so humbling, too.
00:54:18.880 --> 00:54:23.360
I've never been more humbled by this experience with bread.
00:54:23.599 --> 00:54:30.000
I mean, I'm a pretty defensive person, and it takes a lot for me to admit wrongdoing or error.
00:54:30.239 --> 00:54:35.119
So bread has that's been a gift that's bread that bread has given me.
00:54:35.199 --> 00:54:41.039
So saving bread to me really means growth in my own character.
00:54:41.119 --> 00:54:43.039
It really means connecting with humans.
00:54:43.360 --> 00:54:49.440
My life has changed so dramatically because of it, because I chose to save bread.
00:54:49.519 --> 00:54:54.000
I chose to make it, I chose to feed it to my family first before selling it.
00:54:54.320 --> 00:54:58.320
I think that's just for me, it's just when you look at different things.
00:54:58.480 --> 00:55:05.440
I think if when I go to the grocery store and I pull things out of the bag, can I look at that product and go, this is a miracle of nature?
00:55:05.679 --> 00:55:07.039
You know, like honey.
00:55:07.199 --> 00:55:11.599
Honey is one of those things where like that is a real miracle of nature.
00:55:11.920 --> 00:55:17.599
How many things can you pull out of your bag from the market and say that about?
00:55:18.079 --> 00:55:25.039
I think we we're losing touch with a lot of that with our food and connection with the land and connection with farmers.
00:55:25.119 --> 00:55:32.000
And there's just so much that goes into this very basic, this very humble loaf of bread.
00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:43.679
And for a long time it had been forgotten in our communities 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 40 years ago, you didn't see artisan bread.
00:55:44.079 --> 00:55:46.639
I mean, maybe in Europe you did, but not in the United States.
00:55:46.800 --> 00:55:48.159
We really moved away from that.
00:55:48.559 --> 00:55:50.639
I think it made a lot of people sick.
00:55:51.519 --> 00:55:56.079
A lot of people can't handle the digestibility of fake bread.
00:55:56.480 --> 00:56:03.519
So saving bread, I think it's just bringing back health of humanity, really.
00:56:03.679 --> 00:56:07.280
I mean, it's just so basic and simple as that and important.
00:56:08.559 --> 00:56:15.199
That is a beautiful answer and made me feel very emotional because I agree with you.
00:56:15.360 --> 00:56:27.599
I think it deserves attention, it deserves care, it deserves preservation, and it takes a lot of people to make that happen.
00:56:27.760 --> 00:56:38.159
I mean, look at the work that you had to do to change the law where you live so that you could sell this type of bread to your community.
00:56:38.320 --> 00:56:40.239
That's how important it was to you.
00:56:40.480 --> 00:56:46.719
And there are a lot of wonderful people doing incredible work, building grain mills, right?
00:56:47.039 --> 00:56:50.960
Farming the wheat, teaching other people how to bake.
00:56:51.280 --> 00:56:56.559
And it takes an incredible village of people who want to preserve it.
00:56:56.719 --> 00:57:08.159
And thank you for doing the work that you've done and the work that I know you'll continue to do with your your tenacity that you have just bubbling within you.
00:57:08.400 --> 00:57:11.360
How can our listeners support you?
00:57:11.519 --> 00:57:14.320
Is following you on Instagram the best way?
00:57:14.719 --> 00:57:20.159
Affiliate links, buying, buying your bread at the market, where can we find you?
00:57:20.320 --> 00:57:21.440
How can we follow you?
00:57:21.519 --> 00:57:22.800
Tell us all the things.
00:57:23.280 --> 00:57:23.519
Sure.
00:57:23.679 --> 00:57:28.880
I think if people wanted to follow me on Instagram, that's my main platform, they can do that.
00:57:29.039 --> 00:57:32.079
I'm sure you'll have maybe the handle somewhere.
00:57:32.559 --> 00:57:32.960
Let's tell them.
00:57:33.119 --> 00:57:33.840
Let's tell them the handle.
00:57:34.079 --> 00:57:34.159
Sure.
00:57:34.239 --> 00:57:34.400
Yeah.
00:57:34.559 --> 00:57:39.119
It's at crumb.sourdough.microbakery.
00:57:39.280 --> 00:57:39.519
Yes.
00:57:39.760 --> 00:57:41.039
So two dots in there.
00:57:41.280 --> 00:57:44.239
And then um face Facebook, I'm on there as well.
00:57:44.400 --> 00:57:47.920
I think that's just at crumb sourdough microbakery, no dots.
00:57:48.480 --> 00:57:53.760
But yeah, you can support me by buying my bread and my retail partners.
00:57:54.079 --> 00:58:14.239
I locally I'm at Local Acres Marketplace, Newport Avenue Market, the Vegetable Man Produce, which is May through October, Tumalo Farm Stand, which is year-round, and newly I'm at Jordan's Fruit Stand, which is in Redmond, and they're seasonal too.
00:58:14.320 --> 00:58:16.000
They're October through May.
00:58:16.239 --> 00:58:23.360
I do have something secured to replace that Redmond location when the Jordan's shuts down.
00:58:23.519 --> 00:58:29.920
I've been communicating with a uh very popular small locally owned grocery store market there.
00:58:30.079 --> 00:58:30.639
So great.
00:58:30.800 --> 00:58:32.079
You'll probably see me there.
00:58:32.400 --> 00:58:52.880
If you see me doing a real promoting, whether it's labels or a bread bag or anything related to the bakery, if you kind of sense like, yeah, that may be a collaboration, yeah, maybe support that that company because I won't take on that partnership unless I myself use it and find it to be really helpful in what I do.
00:58:53.360 --> 00:58:54.639
So that's fantastic.
00:58:54.800 --> 00:59:02.239
Those are uh uh at least three ways people can come and follow you and enjoy the content that you make because I certainly do.
00:59:02.480 --> 00:59:18.880
And I'm thankful that, you know, there's a lot of there's some things about social media that aren't so great, but there's a lot of things that are really great because it allows people who would have never met in the real world because they live far or whatever, to meet and become friends.
00:59:19.039 --> 00:59:22.000
So I'm thankful that it brought us together.
00:59:22.159 --> 00:59:25.760
And I feel like even more recently we've been able to connect a little bit more.
00:59:26.079 --> 00:59:32.239
You're just doing great things, and I I really admire the work that you're doing and the voice that you provide to our community.
00:59:32.639 --> 00:59:33.760
Well, thank you so much.
00:59:33.840 --> 00:59:35.280
And I'm so glad we've connected.
00:59:35.360 --> 00:59:37.360
I don't even remember how we actually did.
00:59:37.440 --> 00:59:40.000
It must have been over pH probably later.
00:59:43.840 --> 00:59:45.920
I don't want to I don't want to teach about that.
00:59:47.519 --> 00:59:49.599
So I'm happy to have done that for you.
00:59:49.679 --> 00:59:51.440
And this podcast is wonderful.
00:59:51.519 --> 00:59:54.480
I've enjoyed listening to the your episodes that you've done so far.
00:59:54.559 --> 00:59:56.960
And congratulations on all your success with it, too.
00:59:57.440 --> 00:59:58.079
Thank you.
00:59:58.239 --> 00:59:58.639
Thank you.
00:59:58.800 --> 01:00:02.480
All right, well, I'll end the recording for us and then we can keep chatting while it downloads.
01:00:02.719 --> 01:00:03.039
Okay.
01:00:03.199 --> 01:00:04.400
Okay, cool.
01:00:05.039 --> 01:00:13.119
Thank you again, Jenny, for chatting with us today and opening your heart to us and sharing all of the hard work that you've done for your community.
01:00:13.280 --> 01:00:18.159
It's really impressive and really inspiring, and I just loved where that conversation went.
01:00:18.400 --> 01:00:27.360
There were so many things that stuck with me, but I think one of the biggest was when Jenny was talking about knowing what enough looks like.
01:00:27.599 --> 01:00:29.119
She fought to change a lot.
01:00:29.280 --> 01:00:31.280
She built a bakery that supports her.
01:00:31.440 --> 01:00:38.079
She's baking 230 loaves a week and has created a completely different model through wholesale.
01:00:38.159 --> 01:00:41.840
And at the same time, she's able to say, I don't need to build an empire.
01:00:42.079 --> 01:00:48.159
I want to make good bread, make a living, have a life, and not destroy myself while doing that.
01:00:48.320 --> 01:00:55.199
And I think that's a really important conversation to have in a culture that constantly tells us that growth is the only goal.
01:00:55.440 --> 01:01:05.519
And then her answer to what saving bread means to her, that connection between bread and people and land is something that we've been doing for thousands of years.
01:01:05.679 --> 01:01:09.119
And I thought that was just I thought that was a beautiful place to end.
01:01:09.360 --> 01:01:14.559
I'll put all of Jenny's information into the show notes so you can find her and follow the work that she is doing.
01:01:14.639 --> 01:01:17.119
And next week, we're back with a lessons episode.
01:01:17.280 --> 01:01:30.400
We're going to get nerdy again, talk about sourdough microbiology, pH, and start getting into how we can work more whole grain into our bread without feeling like we have to throw everything we already know out of the window.
01:01:30.559 --> 01:01:32.719
So thank you for being here this week.
01:01:32.960 --> 01:01:38.239
Thank you for supporting the Saving Bread Podcast, and I will talk to you all next week.
01:01:40.880 --> 01:01:44.400
Thank you for listening to the Saving Bread Podcast.
01:01:47.039 --> 01:01:50.400
Music by Joshua from Dope.
01:01:54.960 --> 01:02:00.320
And as always, happy baking and long live real bread.
