What Women Get Wrong About Divorce: A Lawyer’s Hard Truths

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Are you going to be a victim of this
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divorce or are you going to be, you
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know, a heroine of this divorce? And you
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do get to choose that. You really do.
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All right, welcome everyone to another
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episode of Pulling Threads. Today I'm
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really excited to have Heatherwick,
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who's the founder and CEO of the Florida
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Women's Law Group, which is a firm
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dedicated exclusively to helping women,
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which is a dream and something I think
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most women I work with wish they had
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access to. Thank you so much, Heather,
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for being here. We're going to talk
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about how you took this direction in
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your career, but we both have, I think,
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a passion for not only helping women
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through the process, but helping them
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through the process in a very healthy,
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mindful, empowering way, and so I'm
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really excited. We haven't spoken much
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before recording, so I have lots of
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questions and curiosity around how you
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were inspired to do the work you're
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doing, write the books you're writing,
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and help women in the way that you do.
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So, welcome to the podcast, Heather.
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>> Oh, thank you so much. I'm so happy to
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be here, Leslie.
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>> Yeah. I want to point out that you also
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are a yoga instructor. You also identify
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yourself as an entrepreneur and a
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speaker and you have your own podcast
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and you're the author of four books. So
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I think we have so many similarities and
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that our drive seems to overlap which I
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love and
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>> yeah so if you don't mind telling us a
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little bit about your path and how you
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got here and were inspired to do the
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work that you're doing.
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>> Sure. I'd love to. So, when I
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first began practicing law, I was a
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prosecutor, which I truly loved. I loved
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being in the courtroom. I I loved
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everything about that. And it just
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wasn't, you know, something that I
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thought I could do long term because I
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also, you know, wanted to actually make
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some money. And, you know, just be
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honest, like they paid I we and but it
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was great experience. I learned so much
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and then
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I
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really just loved that part of the law.
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It never occurred to me, I will tell
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you, to do family law. However, my
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uncle's practice, and I moved back home
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to Jacksonville, he was still in the era
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where I think you could do general
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practice. I don't really see that
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anymore, but he mostly did family law,
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criminal defense, and every now and then
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some PI. So he taught me family law
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>> and I was really young then and you know
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didn't have any I had some I had a good
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bit of life experience but not much
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compared to you know now and but I
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learned it he taught me so much about
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that and you know then I went on and did
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a few other things and when it was time
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for me to open my own practice and you
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know deciding what I wanted to do I I
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really wasn't sure and I will be just
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quite honest with you and your
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listeners, I didn't want to practice
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family law because of the attorneys who
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practice family law. They were so rude
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and mean and I was like, "What's wrong
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with you people?" Like, "We're not
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married. We're not the ones getting
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divorced." And it was it was so
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different from, you know, in the
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criminal law world, it's very collegate.
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like you can talk and agree and I don't
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know I just was stunned stunned by the
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way people would talk to me and they'd
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be so angry like well they need to do
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that I was like why are you so angry and
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upset and I just really had I had to you
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know grow a much thicker skin which I
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thought I had but so that was my
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resistance there however I really wasn't
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a defense attorney because I like
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putting people in jail not you know the
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other side so I might have liked the law
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so anyway I had to really figure that
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out and and luckily I had an
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opportunity, you know, to have some
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great mentors and I certainly the
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clients who were had family law issues
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were really more drawn to me and I was
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getting those referrals and I really
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then embraced it. I was like, I can't do
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both. It's too much to keep track of. So
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I really put everything into the family
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law. And after a few years, I began to
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really look at, well, what do I like
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best about family law? And what clients
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do I like best? This is my firm, you
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know, what kind of cases do I really
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want to work on? And it was the women.
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And particularly what I I saw was women
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who
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really didn't value what they brought to
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the marriage
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>> and all of that talk that their husband
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was giving them. You know, well, you
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don't deserve this and this is my
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retirement. I earned this money. You
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didn't do anything.
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>> They were believing that. And I thought,
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no, no, no, that is not the law. Like
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that is not the way it goes. I can do
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this for you. And I felt that that is
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where I could make a huge difference.
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And I you know what I I recognized over
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you know really spending some time
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reflecting on the clients. It was also
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my mother has been married and divorced
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like three times and it was the same
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patterns that she went through. You know
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as I was an adult and if not with my
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father I was too young to have noticed
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that but you know it was the same thing.
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thing. I was like, all these women are
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really following these similar patterns
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as are the men. And so I thought, wow, I
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I think I can really be more than just
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your lawyer, right? You know, a lot of
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lawyers can get you divorced, whether
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they'll do it well or not. That's, you
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know, for another discussion. But I
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thought, wow, I I think I can see where
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we can really make a difference. And
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it's like that's who I want to
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represent. And I want to be like that
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strength for them when they are just
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ready to give up because he's just being
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so difficult. And it's like we're so
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close, you know, we're so close to
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>> being done if you, you know, trust me
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and allow us to get you through to the
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other side. What he's offering you is
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like your worst day in court. Like it's
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just we're not doing that. And and
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that's really how it started. and then,
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you know, and evolve from there because
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I do think that
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no matter if you are the bread winner,
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if you're both working, if you're the
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stay at home mom, there are similar ways
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that women go through divorce and the
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things that matter to them. And I will
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tell you that men, you know, they're
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very predictable. They say the same
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stuff, you know, and when the women's is
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the one working and maybe they were, you
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know, doing more at home, they're like,
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"Well, I'm going to take the kids.
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You'll never see the kids." and you know
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just make they really worked hard for
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the fear.
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>> Yep.
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>> The the threats and really embedding
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them that in them and
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>> yeah I was like that's what I want to do
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because women and men do go through
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divorce differently and they do
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experience it differently and if we can
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be more attuned to what women are going
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through
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>> and helping them and that's who I want
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to help. And so I was like, well, that's
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why we, you know, live in this country.
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We could have a business and help who we
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want to help. And it's not, you know,
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it's not that I don't like men or hate
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men. I just don't want to help you.
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Like, you got enough help. Like, I don't
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want to help you. I want to help women.
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>> Well, it there is something to be said
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about the special specializing in it
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because you can really study and notice
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the patterns in one group, focus all
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your attention there, and then offer
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them something that a lot of people
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can't offer them. Mhm.
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>> And then so much of what I hear in what
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you're saying is a level of compassion
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for their situation, which I think with
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my clients and the people in groups I'm
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in, I hear time and time again, women
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saying they're not even advocating for
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me as far as their attorneys. And I
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think we're just missing there's a huge
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amount of compassion missing in the
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family law sector. And it's just you can
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tell the difference between someone
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who's just doing this to get paid
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>> and someone who actually cares about the
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outcome. The other thing I hear though,
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which is interesting, I love love loved
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love still love my divorce attorney,
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Belinda Lazara. You might know her.
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She's also here in Florida and I
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absolutely adore her. But she said to me
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very early on because of the types of
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women we were, we could we were going to
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become friends, right? And
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>> but I was paying her a lot of money per
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hour and she said to me, "You can pay me
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to be your therapist, too, if you want,
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but I don't think you want to. We can be
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friends when this is over." And I had an
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incredible therapist at the time, and I
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thought, "No, she's right. this is gonna
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really add up quick if I keep talking to
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her about how I'm feeling and
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everything.
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>> But it sounds like you are different in
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that you want to offer some of that
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emotional support and guidance to
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clients. How does that work? Well, I
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think what's important and with, you
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know, the team that of attorneys and and
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the legal team that we have here, I
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think the empathy is important, but also
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the I understand where you're going with
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this, but you know, for the clients when
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they're just get but being able to say,
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listen, I hear you.
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>> Yeah.
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>> But we've got to move on and you know,
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we've got to go through this. I do. We
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strongly encourage, you know, therapy,
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divorce coaches, all of that. when
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you're in it. And I had clients tell me,
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"Oh, but I just talked to you." And I
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was like, "It's gonna cost you more
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money and you can't afford to have me as
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a friend right now because that's not
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like the relationship."
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And it's also I mean, we certainly
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aren't providing therapy, but I think
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we're willing to listen because that's
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where, you know, the create creativity
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comes in. Yes, we have the law, but if
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I, you know, it's so fact specific. So
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much is very fact specific as it relates
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to the law. And I think if we're just
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willing to listen and question because
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I've over the years taken many cases
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that the all the other attorneys told
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them no. And I was like well maybe you
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know tell me what you got. You know you
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have to really listen. Then you have to
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ask the right questions to say okay can
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we make a case around this and that I
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think is the difference. And also what I
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had heard and of course this is many
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many years ago when I started but there
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was a very paternalistic approach many
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of the male attorney you know it's okay
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honey it's okay sweetheart you'll get
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married you know whatever and you need
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the house this is and just telling them
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what they needed or what would be good
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for them and never asking and never
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really wondering well what do you want
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to do with your life
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>> and that is the big difference because
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that's where we start the whole process
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us is what are your goals? Which can be
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very overwhelming for many women when
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they're in it. And I recognize that I
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probably want to help you and get you to
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places that you don't really even want
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to go more than you do, you know, at the
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moment. And
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>> but this is centered around what your
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goals are and then and then we go from
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there. They may be extremely
00:11:47.680 --> 00:11:49.910
unrealistic. Okay, but at least I know
00:11:49.920 --> 00:11:51.590
where you're starting because that is
00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:54.550
what we need to know because it's really
00:11:54.560 --> 00:11:57.829
disappointing when you know women go
00:11:57.839 --> 00:12:00.550
through divorce and they feel like their
00:12:00.560 --> 00:12:03.590
attorney didn't do anything for them and
00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:05.110
they feel like they didn't listen to
00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:06.710
them. And I agree, they didn't listen to
00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:08.470
them and they didn't help. You know,
00:12:08.480 --> 00:12:10.230
sometimes we just got to deliver the
00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:12.710
reality of your situation is this.
00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:14.870
>> Yeah. Now, I hear you and I hear what
00:12:14.880 --> 00:12:17.110
you want, but the way you think you can
00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:19.110
get that is not the way it's going to be
00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:20.870
because the courtroom and law is just
00:12:20.880 --> 00:12:23.350
different. It's like, no. However, let's
00:12:23.360 --> 00:12:25.190
ask you some questions and let's see,
00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:26.870
you know, if we can get you where you
00:12:26.880 --> 00:12:28.949
want to be or at least help you begin to
00:12:28.959 --> 00:12:31.910
recognize the reality of the law, your
00:12:31.920 --> 00:12:33.670
situation, and what this is going to
00:12:33.680 --> 00:12:35.509
look like. And I think that's important,
00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:38.389
and that's how we empower one another is
00:12:38.399 --> 00:12:40.870
I got to tell you what you need to hear,
00:12:40.880 --> 00:12:42.629
not what you want to hear. Yes.
00:12:42.639 --> 00:12:43.750
>> Because then you're just gonna be mad at
00:12:43.760 --> 00:12:45.190
me and you didn't do anything for me.
00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:46.870
It's like, "No, no, no, no. I told you
00:12:46.880 --> 00:12:48.150
where this was going."
00:12:48.160 --> 00:12:52.069
>> Yes. Yes. Yeah. You can get so creative.
00:12:52.079 --> 00:12:53.910
And I feel like that's something that
00:12:53.920 --> 00:12:55.910
people don't realize. And you're right.
00:12:55.920 --> 00:12:57.910
It's almost like going to the doctor. We
00:12:57.920 --> 00:12:59.670
used to go to the doctor and they tell
00:12:59.680 --> 00:13:01.190
us what we're going to do
00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:03.910
>> and you go and you almost feel stunned
00:13:03.920 --> 00:13:05.509
and you can't remember half of what they
00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:08.550
said. This is in my earlier life, like
00:13:08.560 --> 00:13:10.389
when I was younger. Now I go to the
00:13:10.399 --> 00:13:12.790
doctor and I'm like, we're so informed
00:13:12.800 --> 00:13:14.389
and like, okay, this is what I know
00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:16.470
about what's going on. These look like
00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:18.310
they're my options. I want you to
00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:20.710
confirm it with me for me and give me
00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:22.230
any other options. And then I'm going to
00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:23.509
make a choice.
00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:25.829
>> I think a lot of people still don't show
00:13:25.839 --> 00:13:27.750
up that way at the doctor, but it's the
00:13:27.760 --> 00:13:29.430
same way with law.
00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:31.910
>> Okay, give me my options. Don't tell me
00:13:31.920 --> 00:13:33.829
what to do.
00:13:33.839 --> 00:13:37.350
If I ask, then tell me what you think I
00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:39.110
should do. Because you're right, a lot
00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:42.949
of women just aren't capable of making
00:13:42.959 --> 00:13:44.389
choices,
00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:45.190
>> especially in
00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:46.790
>> Yeah, it's overwhelming when you're in
00:13:46.800 --> 00:13:47.030
it.
00:13:47.040 --> 00:13:49.269
>> It's very overwhelming. We had an
00:13:49.279 --> 00:13:51.750
agreement in my collaborative divorce
00:13:51.760 --> 00:13:54.230
proceedings that if I gave her a certain
00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:56.870
look or a gesture, she knew she had the
00:13:56.880 --> 00:13:58.949
ability to make the decision for me or
00:13:58.959 --> 00:14:00.710
speak on my behalf because there were
00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:03.430
times when I knew I went into fight or
00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:04.550
flight right in the middle of the
00:14:04.560 --> 00:14:06.949
meeting. And it happened once and I we
00:14:06.959 --> 00:14:08.949
didn't have the agreement. And after
00:14:08.959 --> 00:14:11.750
that I was like, "Okay, moving forward,
00:14:11.760 --> 00:14:14.389
if I become so stunned by something they
00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:17.430
said that I'm thrown off, I need to be
00:14:17.440 --> 00:14:19.269
able I need you to be able to speak on
00:14:19.279 --> 00:14:21.590
my behalf." And that's something I
00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:24.389
prepare people for. It sounds like
00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:26.949
you're in your firm, the way that you
00:14:26.959 --> 00:14:28.710
guys do things, you're going to be
00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:30.550
really good at preparing people for
00:14:30.560 --> 00:14:33.350
moments like that in advance. Whereas I
00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:35.189
suspect and based on what I the
00:14:35.199 --> 00:14:36.870
information I'm getting from a lot of my
00:14:36.880 --> 00:14:38.150
clients,
00:14:38.160 --> 00:14:42.230
>> there's no preparation for those moments
00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:45.350
and they're completely blindsided or in
00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:47.990
court or in a meeting.
00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:50.790
>> Um, how do you address that with your
00:14:50.800 --> 00:14:52.870
clients and work with people
00:14:52.880 --> 00:14:54.949
>> so that they know this could happen,
00:14:54.959 --> 00:14:56.550
that could happen, be emotionally
00:14:56.560 --> 00:14:58.150
prepared, have your nervous system
00:14:58.160 --> 00:15:00.870
ready? Well, we, you know, obviously try
00:15:00.880 --> 00:15:02.790
to meet or not try to meet, we do meet
00:15:02.800 --> 00:15:05.670
with them, but be extremely prepared and
00:15:05.680 --> 00:15:08.230
thorough and and you know, I've had
00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:09.350
clients say, "Well, they weren't ready."
00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:11.430
And it's like, well, my job is not to
00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:13.350
deal with them. Like, you're going to be
00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:16.310
ready. We are going to show up ready to
00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:17.509
settle and you are going to know your
00:15:17.519 --> 00:15:19.189
best day and your worst day in court
00:15:19.199 --> 00:15:20.389
because we're going to have to make a
00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:22.389
lot of decisions that you're not used to
00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:24.629
making. And so, you need to fully
00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:27.189
understand the range. That is the way
00:15:27.199 --> 00:15:31.829
that I prefer to go in there. And you
00:15:31.839 --> 00:15:34.949
know, many women may not want to address
00:15:34.959 --> 00:15:36.629
all the financials, you know, and the
00:15:36.639 --> 00:15:37.910
children, but
00:15:37.920 --> 00:15:39.269
>> it's like this is the way it's going to
00:15:39.279 --> 00:15:41.430
go. We have done hundred, thousands of
00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:41.990
these.
00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:42.310
>> Yeah.
00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:43.670
>> He's going to say this, they're going to
00:15:43.680 --> 00:15:45.110
say that, and we're going to deal with
00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:47.670
the children first. Period. That's the
00:15:47.680 --> 00:15:51.110
way it's going to happen. And so let's
00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:53.670
talk about that because if we can't get
00:15:53.680 --> 00:15:55.110
an agreement on that, there's no need to
00:15:55.120 --> 00:15:59.030
go to everything else. And so we really
00:15:59.040 --> 00:16:02.310
work very hard to prepare our clients
00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:04.870
and and then also, you know, let them
00:16:04.880 --> 00:16:07.269
know like for your listeners when the
00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:09.829
majority of our mediations, all of them
00:16:09.839 --> 00:16:14.550
really here, the mediator goes to, you
00:16:14.560 --> 00:16:16.389
know, the Zoom room, but it it used to
00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:18.790
be physically, but you and your attorney
00:16:18.800 --> 00:16:20.710
are in one room and your husband and
00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:22.389
their attorney are in another. So, we're
00:16:22.399 --> 00:16:24.150
not all sitting down at the table
00:16:24.160 --> 00:16:25.829
hashing out. That is not the way it's
00:16:25.839 --> 00:16:26.710
happening.
00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:30.389
>> The mediators going back and forth and
00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:34.150
there are some things that are just so
00:16:34.160 --> 00:16:36.389
straightforward. For instance, you've
00:16:36.399 --> 00:16:38.710
been married 20 years, your husband has
00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:40.629
worked for the same company for 18
00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:42.550
years, right? The entire marriage, half
00:16:42.560 --> 00:16:44.710
that retirement is yours. The end of the
00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:48.629
story. There is no need to be spending
00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:50.150
all this time on that, right? I mean,
00:16:50.160 --> 00:16:51.829
that is and I share that with your
00:16:51.839 --> 00:16:54.230
listeners because guess what? his
00:16:54.240 --> 00:16:55.670
attorney may or may not have told him
00:16:55.680 --> 00:16:57.110
that and he probably did. He didn't want
00:16:57.120 --> 00:16:59.030
to hear it or whatever.
00:16:59.040 --> 00:17:01.670
>> And what we find and what I tell our
00:17:01.680 --> 00:17:02.629
clients is they're going to be over
00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:04.309
there for like two hours
00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:06.549
>> because he's not ready. He is not ready
00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:08.630
to understand. He has no I don't know
00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:10.309
who it was
00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:13.029
>> or how they prepared. They just show up.
00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:14.630
I don't know. And then they are like,
00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:15.669
"Well, we spent all this time." I was
00:17:15.679 --> 00:17:17.590
like, "I know, but you're going to be
00:17:17.600 --> 00:17:20.150
ready and this is for your benefit."
00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:22.870
>> And so just bring a book, right? like we
00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:24.230
can talk, you know, we can work on
00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:27.029
things, but it's going to be like that
00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:30.549
because not everyone is as prepared for
00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:32.789
the reality of the law. It's like it's
00:17:32.799 --> 00:17:34.950
all going to be 50/50. Yeah. I don't
00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:36.150
know why we're sitting here debating
00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:37.430
that. like, okay, we can talk about
00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:39.750
alimony and, you know, the time with the
00:17:39.760 --> 00:17:41.350
children, things like that, but there
00:17:41.360 --> 00:17:44.390
it's shocking to me still. But that's
00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:47.750
just I think the majority of attorneys
00:17:47.760 --> 00:17:50.070
do not spend the time in preparation
00:17:50.080 --> 00:17:51.990
that we do and certainly not men talking
00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:53.590
to other men like the attorneys like
00:17:53.600 --> 00:17:55.669
with their male clients. I really don't
00:17:55.679 --> 00:17:55.990
think
00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:57.750
>> it doesn't seem like they give them a
00:17:57.760 --> 00:17:59.990
realistic picture of what's about to
00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:02.230
happen. You don't get to choose. You
00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:04.070
don't get to say, "No, she's not taking
00:18:04.080 --> 00:18:06.390
half of my retirement." That's not
00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:07.029
what's happening.
00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:08.870
>> Yeah. It's like it's like what a waste
00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:10.390
of time. But
00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:11.830
>> and and it does, you know, everybody
00:18:11.840 --> 00:18:13.669
shows up emotionally in a different
00:18:13.679 --> 00:18:14.230
space.
00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:14.870
>> Yes.
00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:18.390
>> However, and and what I have found, and
00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:21.029
I obviously cannot comment on, you know,
00:18:21.039 --> 00:18:23.909
men and where they are in it. I know
00:18:23.919 --> 00:18:26.150
that often, you know, when we're talking
00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:28.070
about things, you're not the clients
00:18:28.080 --> 00:18:29.590
aren't always ready to hear it.
00:18:29.600 --> 00:18:31.110
>> So, they don't hear it. And so then they
00:18:31.120 --> 00:18:32.390
ask the same questions or they're
00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:34.150
ruminating and they're they're looping
00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:37.590
and looping and and unfortunately, you
00:18:37.600 --> 00:18:38.630
know, that's when we'll be like, you
00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:40.390
know, therapy would really help. like
00:18:40.400 --> 00:18:42.390
you you're going to have to get to this
00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:45.350
point because I will continue to answer
00:18:45.360 --> 00:18:46.870
your questions, but I've already
00:18:46.880 --> 00:18:48.230
answered them
00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:52.230
>> and I'm trying to help you process and
00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:55.990
receive the information because it, you
00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:57.270
know, I know they're going through a
00:18:57.280 --> 00:18:59.990
hard time and that's why with mediation
00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:01.669
>> sometimes, you know, we don't want to
00:19:01.679 --> 00:19:03.669
even go before 6 months after you filed
00:19:03.679 --> 00:19:04.870
because you've got to deal with that
00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:07.190
emotional stuff so that you can actually
00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:09.510
make decisions. You're not ready the
00:19:09.520 --> 00:19:11.190
next week to go in and have it all laid
00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:13.430
out and make decisions. The majority the
00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:14.789
majority of women are not.
00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:17.029
>> No, I think and probably the men aren't
00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:18.789
either. I'm the same as you. I don't
00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:21.029
really work with men. I'm seeing the
00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:24.870
women's side, but there is absolutely a
00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:28.230
six-month window where whatever hill
00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:32.549
they will die on does not change for
00:19:32.559 --> 00:19:34.070
six. It's usually
00:19:34.080 --> 00:19:35.590
>> they don't want they don't want the
00:19:35.600 --> 00:19:38.789
50/50 custody. or they want to keep the
00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:41.669
house and that's what I see. So what are
00:19:41.679 --> 00:19:43.909
what do you see? What are the big issues
00:19:43.919 --> 00:19:46.950
that women it takes them time to
00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:50.630
understand this is not either it's not
00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:53.990
realistic based on the law or it's
00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:55.669
really not in your best interest and I
00:19:55.679 --> 00:19:57.110
say that with the house. I think a lot
00:19:57.120 --> 00:20:00.150
of people think they want to stay in a
00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:01.750
house and it's not going to be the best
00:20:01.760 --> 00:20:05.350
thing for you. Um but it takes time for
00:20:05.360 --> 00:20:08.230
them to see that and realize. Are there
00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:11.029
other things that you see
00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:12.630
>> women coming in?
00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:14.470
>> It's mostly a lot of it is the children
00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:18.150
and now the the laws evolved changed you
00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:20.630
know a few years ago that there is the
00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:23.909
premise of 50/50 and it was certainly
00:20:23.919 --> 00:20:26.230
happening all over the state of Florida.
00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:28.310
In some areas it had really been like
00:20:28.320 --> 00:20:30.630
that a lot probably sooner than
00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:32.149
Jacksonville. We were a little slower.
00:20:32.159 --> 00:20:34.310
Northeast Florida to where it was, you
00:20:34.320 --> 00:20:36.310
know, automatic, but it was already a
00:20:36.320 --> 00:20:40.950
60/40. The fathers now compared to 25
00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:43.909
years ago are are more engaged and they
00:20:43.919 --> 00:20:46.310
want that part of responsibility.
00:20:46.320 --> 00:20:48.549
>> Now, also that impacts the financials,
00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:53.029
but that h tends to be a hard one for
00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:55.110
many women to be like, but but I've done
00:20:55.120 --> 00:20:56.950
everything and he hasn't done any of it.
00:20:56.960 --> 00:20:59.430
And that's just the reality of the
00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:02.230
situation that is hard to
00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:04.630
get to. So I think there needs to be
00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:05.750
time.
00:21:05.760 --> 00:21:06.310
>> Yeah.
00:21:06.320 --> 00:21:09.270
>> And for them to get used to that idea
00:21:09.280 --> 00:21:11.430
and understand how that's going to go
00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:13.350
and and then they're just afraid, you
00:21:13.360 --> 00:21:15.590
know, and unfortunately the court's like
00:21:15.600 --> 00:21:17.350
you had children with him like he can
00:21:17.360 --> 00:21:19.430
have the children and that it, you know,
00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:21.350
they look at it so much more harshly.
00:21:21.360 --> 00:21:23.110
That's a big one. And yeah, I think the
00:21:23.120 --> 00:21:25.669
house too. Well, and and there's so
00:21:25.679 --> 00:21:27.430
many. There's not just like one thing on
00:21:27.440 --> 00:21:30.710
the house, right? There it's just the it
00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:32.870
represents what you know you thought
00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:34.390
your life was going to be. You have so
00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:36.390
many memories, but it is just a thing
00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:37.990
and it's a thing that might just drain
00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:39.750
you financially.
00:21:39.760 --> 00:21:44.230
>> Um but in some cases, you know, they'll
00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:47.669
I think with all of us, right, we we'll
00:21:47.679 --> 00:21:49.590
attach we'll really focus on the one
00:21:49.600 --> 00:21:51.830
thing, but the mortgage is only this and
00:21:51.840 --> 00:21:54.549
I I can't live anywhere else for that,
00:21:54.559 --> 00:21:57.510
>> right? and and and that could be true,
00:21:57.520 --> 00:21:59.270
you know, and so it's like, oh, or the
00:21:59.280 --> 00:22:00.630
interest rate and they, you know,
00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:03.350
they're focusing on maybe those
00:22:03.360 --> 00:22:05.830
spreadsheet items and it's like, but
00:22:05.840 --> 00:22:08.789
what about you and you know, the things
00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:10.870
that could go wrong eventually, but
00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:12.710
maybe it's time for a fresh start.
00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:13.190
>> Yeah.
00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:17.190
>> And maybe it's would be healthy,
00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:18.789
>> right? It's going to feel good to be in
00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:20.870
your own place and be able to decorate
00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:22.710
it how you want and Yeah.
00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:24.630
>> Exactly. So, I think it's just and
00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:26.230
there's so much tied up in it, right?
00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:27.830
Because divorce is your whole life and
00:22:27.840 --> 00:22:29.830
you have to talk with this, you know,
00:22:29.840 --> 00:22:33.270
your attorney and their staff about, you
00:22:33.280 --> 00:22:35.430
know, your your husband, your kids, your
00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:37.669
finance. It's just everything is all out
00:22:37.679 --> 00:22:39.990
there. And I know it puts so many It's
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:41.110
very vulnerable.
00:22:41.120 --> 00:22:41.830
>> It's very vulnerable.
00:22:41.840 --> 00:22:44.630
>> It is. And and so and and they're also
00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:46.630
like, "What's going to happen,
00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:47.830
>> right? Like, what what is going to
00:22:47.840 --> 00:22:50.789
happen to my life?" And so those are all
00:22:50.799 --> 00:22:55.909
such valid thoughts that and and we
00:22:55.919 --> 00:22:58.070
don't know right like you know we I was
00:22:58.080 --> 00:22:59.909
like I got to get look at finances. I
00:22:59.919 --> 00:23:01.350
can't sit here on day one and we can't
00:23:01.360 --> 00:23:03.590
tell you what if there will be alimony
00:23:03.600 --> 00:23:05.190
or what it will be or what your life
00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:07.029
will look like cuz what if you don't
00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:08.470
have the full picture
00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:09.110
>> right
00:23:09.120 --> 00:23:11.590
>> and what if there is way more debt than
00:23:11.600 --> 00:23:13.110
you realized? What if there what if
00:23:13.120 --> 00:23:14.310
there are more assets than you realize?
00:23:14.320 --> 00:23:16.149
Like you just we need to know that.
00:23:16.159 --> 00:23:19.510
>> Yeah. and go in and you know but and so
00:23:19.520 --> 00:23:21.669
it's hard and I I think it's just
00:23:21.679 --> 00:23:24.390
understanding that
00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:26.310
we know where they're starting right
00:23:26.320 --> 00:23:29.590
meeting them where they are but with you
00:23:29.600 --> 00:23:31.990
know like tough love like you know you
00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:34.950
we got to tell you the reality because
00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:37.350
you need to know and I don't think you
00:23:37.360 --> 00:23:38.870
know that would be fair to just ignore
00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:40.470
the fact that you think you know you're
00:23:40.480 --> 00:23:43.110
going to I I just want sole custody.
00:23:43.120 --> 00:23:43.669
>> Yeah.
00:23:43.679 --> 00:23:46.789
>> Okay. Well, why? tell me why and then
00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:48.390
we'll talk about it because and that's
00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:50.070
another thing I think and I just think
00:23:50.080 --> 00:23:51.669
men don't do it right. I just don't ask
00:23:51.679 --> 00:23:52.470
why. Yeah.
00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:54.950
>> But why is a really good question when
00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:56.230
you have a client there because they
00:23:56.240 --> 00:23:59.270
could have a lot of really good reasons,
00:23:59.280 --> 00:24:01.430
facts, and things to support that and
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:03.830
that could be their situation.
00:24:03.840 --> 00:24:04.149
>> Yep.
00:24:04.159 --> 00:24:06.310
>> But unless we ask, we don't know.
00:24:06.320 --> 00:24:11.430
>> Right. Right. Yeah. I think a lot of the
00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:14.310
cases that I've helped women get
00:24:14.320 --> 00:24:17.269
through, the men have a tendency to want
00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:18.710
to take the kids. Initially, they
00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:20.789
usually say they want 50/50 and they'll
00:24:20.799 --> 00:24:22.630
say, "I'm just going to put them with a
00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:24.870
babysitter, but at least they won't be
00:24:24.880 --> 00:24:27.110
with you." These are typically
00:24:27.120 --> 00:24:29.590
situations where the woman's leaving and
00:24:29.600 --> 00:24:31.510
they're angry and there's all of that to
00:24:31.520 --> 00:24:32.630
deal with.
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:35.190
>> And I tell them, give it some time. Give
00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:37.430
it some time. If this is someone who's
00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:40.310
not wanted to do any child care at all,
00:24:40.320 --> 00:24:43.269
like that might change. It might change
00:24:43.279 --> 00:24:45.350
over time. They might rethink it. Right
00:24:45.360 --> 00:24:46.789
now, they're just angry and you're
00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:50.070
scared and all these things. So, I love
00:24:50.080 --> 00:24:51.830
that you said the six months cuz I think
00:24:51.840 --> 00:24:54.070
that's really helpful for people. One
00:24:54.080 --> 00:24:55.510
thing that I wonder if you've
00:24:55.520 --> 00:24:59.190
experienced and can shed light on is the
00:24:59.200 --> 00:25:02.950
overwhelm of the financial affidavit. I
00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:06.870
know I went through it and there's
00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:10.230
almost a block like a mental block and
00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:12.390
I've sat with people and just we go
00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:13.909
through it together just because they
00:25:13.919 --> 00:25:15.110
can't open it.
00:25:15.120 --> 00:25:17.110
>> They cannot do that. Is that something
00:25:17.120 --> 00:25:20.149
that you see often?
00:25:20.159 --> 00:25:23.830
>> Yes. It's it's overwhelming and you know
00:25:23.840 --> 00:25:27.590
once we begin the process it there's a
00:25:27.600 --> 00:25:30.390
lot of information and we are obligated
00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:33.990
to provide that information and you know
00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:36.630
we we you know explain everything to you
00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:37.990
give you a lot of things in writing but
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:39.590
basically you start with a lot of
00:25:39.600 --> 00:25:40.630
homework
00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:41.990
>> and it is overwhelming because you're
00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:43.430
like what where are the bank statements
00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:45.590
where are the tax returns and and you
00:25:45.600 --> 00:25:48.870
might have access to them and might know
00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:51.029
and it's still overwhelming.
00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:55.510
And no one and and this is a very broad
00:25:55.520 --> 00:25:56.870
statement, but pretty much nobody really
00:25:56.880 --> 00:25:58.070
wants to sit down and talk about how
00:25:58.080 --> 00:26:00.310
much that they spend all the time in in
00:26:00.320 --> 00:26:02.230
that reality. So
00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:05.669
>> I I I appreciate that. I recognize that
00:26:05.679 --> 00:26:07.430
it's difficult,
00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:09.830
>> but it's so important and it's so
00:26:09.840 --> 00:26:11.669
important it's done correctly. And
00:26:11.679 --> 00:26:14.149
that's another thing that many of our
00:26:14.159 --> 00:26:16.390
clients will say, "Well, you spent all
00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:18.390
this time. We spent all this time on
00:26:18.400 --> 00:26:19.909
this financial affidavit and his is
00:26:19.919 --> 00:26:21.990
completely wrong." And I was like, "I
00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:23.269
know, but you know what? I don't want
00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:25.029
you to be answering questions in front
00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:27.430
of the judge and not know or look as
00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:29.110
though you're hiding anything because
00:26:29.120 --> 00:26:31.430
that's a very uncomfortable feeling."
00:26:31.440 --> 00:26:34.390
And I pretty much we usually assume, you
00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:36.630
know, he's going to lie anyway and not
00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:39.029
be completely upfront
00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:41.110
>> with his financials. And that's okay.
00:26:41.120 --> 00:26:42.630
Like there are certain things that you
00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:45.350
know that really really bothers most
00:26:45.360 --> 00:26:46.070
clients.
00:26:46.080 --> 00:26:46.630
>> Yes.
00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:48.789
>> And because they're like we put in we've
00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:50.870
worked on this so many times and you
00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:53.510
were like no check this number and and I
00:26:53.520 --> 00:26:56.070
said well also
00:26:56.080 --> 00:26:59.110
if if alimony is an issue and and also
00:26:59.120 --> 00:27:00.549
you need to know like what's it going to
00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:02.470
cost you to live.
00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:02.789
>> Yeah.
00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:03.830
>> Because that's important.
00:27:03.840 --> 00:27:06.310
>> It's really important. So we've and and
00:27:06.320 --> 00:27:07.990
you know our parallegals will work with
00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:12.710
the clients and then you know I remember
00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:15.510
going through many many times and I'll
00:27:15.520 --> 00:27:17.510
be like oh no they're spending more a
00:27:17.520 --> 00:27:19.350
month on food like no we got to we got
00:27:19.360 --> 00:27:20.789
to talk about this like have you really
00:27:20.799 --> 00:27:21.990
been with the girl are you really paying
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:23.110
attention and looking at your bank
00:27:23.120 --> 00:27:24.470
statements because
00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:26.630
>> I think you're spending more and so and
00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:28.390
then sometimes it's like okay well
00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:30.789
that's way too much so you know we look
00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:32.470
at those things
00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:37.510
>> because I No, I've seen clients in front
00:27:37.520 --> 00:27:40.549
of a hearing officer and a judge and and
00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:41.830
and you're not going to like that
00:27:41.840 --> 00:27:43.750
feeling. You're not going to like that
00:27:43.760 --> 00:27:46.149
feeling of someone questioning you as if
00:27:46.159 --> 00:27:47.669
you're lying or you're some crazy
00:27:47.679 --> 00:27:48.870
spender
00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:53.590
>> and all these it is. It is. And so it is
00:27:53.600 --> 00:27:54.710
terrible. And that's why
00:27:54.720 --> 00:27:56.230
>> having someone ask you, did you really
00:27:56.240 --> 00:27:58.070
spend that much at Target? and knowing
00:27:58.080 --> 00:27:59.590
that they're going to potentially go
00:27:59.600 --> 00:28:01.430
through your credit cards to double
00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:03.510
check that you're saying that. I mean,
00:28:03.520 --> 00:28:06.070
devastating. I have a little slight
00:28:06.080 --> 00:28:08.149
chest pain right now remembering that
00:28:08.159 --> 00:28:09.269
feeling
00:28:09.279 --> 00:28:10.789
>> even though I help other people with it
00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:13.029
now. Just thinking about that was
00:28:13.039 --> 00:28:14.950
literally one of the worst parts of my
00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:16.789
collaborative meetings was the day that
00:28:16.799 --> 00:28:18.070
we had to look at my financial
00:28:18.080 --> 00:28:22.549
affidavit. It was awful. I knew enough
00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:24.789
to know I had underestimated. So when I
00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:27.190
initial initially turned in the first
00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:31.350
one, they questioned my spending
00:28:31.360 --> 00:28:34.230
and I came back. I went through my
00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:36.389
credit card statements. I downloaded
00:28:36.399 --> 00:28:39.110
them. I was like a little manic. And I
00:28:39.120 --> 00:28:40.549
put all the numbers in and I was like,
00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:43.669
"Oh, I do spend more." And it actually
00:28:43.679 --> 00:28:46.230
helped me because I was going to get
00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:49.190
>> my expenses paid for the first several
00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:52.710
years. Um it increased it backfired on
00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:55.110
them. and increased it. So I tell people
00:28:55.120 --> 00:28:59.269
I know exactly how bad it feels to have
00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:01.430
someone question why did you spend this
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:04.230
much on this? I know. But I also know
00:29:04.240 --> 00:29:06.149
how it feels to have three years of my
00:29:06.159 --> 00:29:08.789
life a runway so I can go back to school
00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:10.870
and get educated because all of my
00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:14.710
expenses were paid. So bear with me just
00:29:14.720 --> 00:29:16.310
and that doesn't happen for everyone. I
00:29:16.320 --> 00:29:19.669
was really fortunate, but it's better to
00:29:19.679 --> 00:29:21.669
know that those numbers are accurate
00:29:21.679 --> 00:29:24.149
than to put in a guess.
00:29:24.159 --> 00:29:27.269
>> Oh, 100%. And and it's the thing is to
00:29:27.279 --> 00:29:30.870
me, one, we want them to be accurate so
00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:33.430
that one, we're going to get adequate
00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:35.909
support and you're not blindsided and
00:29:35.919 --> 00:29:38.149
you get done and you're like, wait, I
00:29:38.159 --> 00:29:39.750
spent way more than this and this isn't
00:29:39.760 --> 00:29:43.430
going to cover it. And frankly, I you
00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:44.870
know, even alimony and child support,
00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:45.909
it's never really going to cover
00:29:45.919 --> 00:29:47.830
everything because you're going from one
00:29:47.840 --> 00:29:50.710
household to two and prices go up and
00:29:50.720 --> 00:29:53.590
and those things and and so that's just
00:29:53.600 --> 00:29:57.350
going to be a challenge, but the I think
00:29:57.360 --> 00:30:01.269
that is a big thing and it's really the
00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:04.789
you know, and back way back when early
00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:07.990
in my practice, you know, watching how
00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:10.070
that would go down with the financial
00:30:10.080 --> 00:30:11.830
affidavit and the witness. And it's
00:30:11.840 --> 00:30:14.149
like, oh, they better sure as heck know
00:30:14.159 --> 00:30:17.669
what what these numbers mean and why.
00:30:17.679 --> 00:30:20.470
And I think it's also when you're being
00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:23.190
questioned, they question the woman and
00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:25.190
and they want to make her feel
00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:27.830
embarrassed or doubt like, you really
00:30:27.840 --> 00:30:30.630
spent $500 on your hair? And it's like,
00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:33.430
yes, I did and I've been doing that for
00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:36.070
10, 15 years, you know? And so that's a
00:30:36.080 --> 00:30:37.750
big part of it, just trying cuz like,
00:30:37.760 --> 00:30:39.830
you know, it's it's just never a good
00:30:39.840 --> 00:30:41.190
feeling. And I've seen too many clients
00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:42.789
and they did well, but they didn't like
00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:45.510
it. They don't like being questioned and
00:30:45.520 --> 00:30:49.909
>> and feeling like that and it's it's a
00:30:49.919 --> 00:30:51.590
challenge. And that's why we spend so
00:30:51.600 --> 00:30:54.230
much time on it. And that's why we want
00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:57.269
>> women to understand they're within the
00:30:57.279 --> 00:30:58.870
and you can have a footnote on every
00:30:58.880 --> 00:31:00.630
single line. And we used to do that
00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:01.830
because I had some clients and they're
00:31:01.840 --> 00:31:03.110
just like, I just don't know. I'm just
00:31:03.120 --> 00:31:05.029
not going to remember.
00:31:05.039 --> 00:31:07.029
>> And and that's okay. and that's valid
00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:08.230
and you're going to, you know, get
00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:11.430
nervous. And we had more footnotes to
00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:14.789
explain everything. And I had one
00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:17.269
attorney question us
00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:19.669
in in one hearing or whatever. And so
00:31:19.679 --> 00:31:21.269
the next time, you know, when we went in
00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:22.549
for the final hearing, and I'm like,
00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:24.389
"And here are all the credit card
00:31:24.399 --> 00:31:26.310
statements and bank statements to
00:31:26.320 --> 00:31:27.430
support all these numbers." And the
00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:28.870
judge looked at the opposing council,
00:31:28.880 --> 00:31:31.029
he's like, "Are we seriously going to go
00:31:31.039 --> 00:31:33.029
through all these?" And he was like,
00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:35.110
"No, she's got the proof of all these
00:31:35.120 --> 00:31:37.269
expenses. says, "No, we're not." So,
00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:39.269
>> yeah, it's better to be prepared. It's
00:31:39.279 --> 00:31:40.870
exactly what I did. I took it upon
00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:44.389
myself to create spreadsheets with each
00:31:44.399 --> 00:31:47.830
credit card, every store, and my
00:31:47.840 --> 00:31:50.230
attorney was like, "Oh my god, what?" I
00:31:50.240 --> 00:31:51.909
was like, "Okay, I lost my mind for a
00:31:51.919 --> 00:31:52.710
minute."
00:31:52.720 --> 00:31:54.789
>> But it helped. Yeah.
00:31:54.799 --> 00:31:56.470
>> And being prepared and understanding
00:31:56.480 --> 00:31:58.149
like I knew exactly where I was spending
00:31:58.159 --> 00:32:00.070
and on what. And I think that's really
00:32:00.080 --> 00:32:02.149
important even though it's a hard thing
00:32:02.159 --> 00:32:03.990
to look at and definitely a hard thing
00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:05.750
to talk about with
00:32:05.760 --> 00:32:08.789
>> it really strangers.
00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:10.950
>> And I think that's what's you know part
00:32:10.960 --> 00:32:13.190
of like like I understand that. We
00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:15.029
understand that but yet we're going to
00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:16.870
help you through it because I don't want
00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:18.870
you to feel like that. I don't want you
00:32:18.880 --> 00:32:21.669
to feel like that in a hearing, in a
00:32:21.679 --> 00:32:25.430
deposition, wherever we are. I find one
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:27.110
of the hardest questions to for me
00:32:27.120 --> 00:32:30.389
personally to answer and for people to
00:32:30.399 --> 00:32:34.870
understand is what child support covers.
00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:37.909
I think people assume if I'm getting
00:32:37.919 --> 00:32:40.310
child support it's going to cover all of
00:32:40.320 --> 00:32:42.389
the kids expenses, but it doesn't
00:32:42.399 --> 00:32:45.509
because child support is really small. I
00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:48.070
hear clients say, you know, my
00:32:48.080 --> 00:32:50.310
ex-husband says
00:32:50.320 --> 00:32:51.669
that should be covered by the child
00:32:51.679 --> 00:32:56.389
support. So, can you explain what child
00:32:56.399 --> 00:32:59.669
support is meant to cover and why we
00:32:59.679 --> 00:33:03.509
still have more to agree on or a judge
00:33:03.519 --> 00:33:06.310
is going to declare like how expenses
00:33:06.320 --> 00:33:08.630
are shared because they're different.
00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:11.990
>> Absolutely. And it is the reality. If
00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:15.110
you are fortunate, it will cover the
00:33:15.120 --> 00:33:17.669
cost to feed your child. I mean, it it
00:33:17.679 --> 00:33:21.110
really it is so the formula is really
00:33:21.120 --> 00:33:23.990
messed up in my opinion and it is not
00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:25.110
adequate
00:33:25.120 --> 00:33:27.430
>> and it certainly doesn't change as you
00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:29.830
have like a hungry teenage boy, right?
00:33:29.840 --> 00:33:32.310
Or they're growing so fast and and you
00:33:32.320 --> 00:33:33.669
can't even keep them clothed,
00:33:33.679 --> 00:33:39.430
>> right? So the in the reality is is it's
00:33:39.440 --> 00:33:42.549
so much based on the amount of time and
00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:44.630
the amount of overnights.
00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:48.549
So if once your husband has o more than
00:33:48.559 --> 00:33:51.110
40% it really drastically reduces the
00:33:51.120 --> 00:33:53.430
child support. So theoretically, okay,
00:33:53.440 --> 00:33:55.669
if you're going to have them
00:33:55.679 --> 00:33:58.230
40 50% of the time, you obviously they
00:33:58.240 --> 00:33:59.830
have to house them, but you need to
00:33:59.840 --> 00:34:01.909
clothe them and feed them that half of
00:34:01.919 --> 00:34:04.230
the time and and buy their shoes and
00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:06.549
things like that. Unfortunately, that
00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:08.950
doesn't always happen. And and those
00:34:08.960 --> 00:34:10.790
are, you know, those are not, you know,
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:13.750
pleasant cases where, you know, your
00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:15.030
child wants something. He's like, "Oh,
00:34:15.040 --> 00:34:16.230
that's your mom. I pay her all I give
00:34:16.240 --> 00:34:17.430
her all this money for all these
00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:20.470
things." which in reality child support
00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:22.230
can cover what part of your rent, your
00:34:22.240 --> 00:34:24.389
electric, your food, and and it's not
00:34:24.399 --> 00:34:25.909
going to cover all that. It just isn't.
00:34:25.919 --> 00:34:27.750
And so
00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:29.750
what what happens and then and I think
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:31.750
this is really frustrating for women and
00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:34.470
and I agree. I I understand that in your
00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:36.069
financial affidavit that we just talked
00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:37.190
about, you know, you have to put all
00:34:37.200 --> 00:34:39.190
these expenses for your children and
00:34:39.200 --> 00:34:41.190
those do not get factored in to child
00:34:41.200 --> 00:34:42.950
support and they also don't get factored
00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:44.869
into alimony. They get removed. So it's
00:34:44.879 --> 00:34:46.230
just like
00:34:46.240 --> 00:34:48.310
>> okay well how are we going to cover
00:34:48.320 --> 00:34:49.909
these things
00:34:49.919 --> 00:34:52.710
>> and that's where yes there have to be
00:34:52.720 --> 00:34:57.109
agreements there will likely be changes
00:34:57.119 --> 00:35:02.230
in the lifestyle of everyone and I think
00:35:02.240 --> 00:35:04.950
that is also a very difficult thing for
00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:07.349
women and mothers to tell their children
00:35:07.359 --> 00:35:09.670
even if they didn't want this divorce
00:35:09.680 --> 00:35:11.589
and they're you know but it's happening
00:35:11.599 --> 00:35:14.950
and your children's lives are going to
00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:20.950
change. And it's just trying to be
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:23.990
honest with them about that because if
00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:27.270
you try to keep covering, you're you're
00:35:27.280 --> 00:35:29.270
really not going to be able to. It's
00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:33.430
just very unlikely and it's the reality
00:35:33.440 --> 00:35:35.829
of it. And child support, you know, can
00:35:35.839 --> 00:35:38.230
cover all those whatever you need to pay
00:35:38.240 --> 00:35:40.870
for. I mean, your house pays for, you
00:35:40.880 --> 00:35:42.710
know, your rent pays for your child,
00:35:42.720 --> 00:35:45.670
your electricity, the the gas in the
00:35:45.680 --> 00:35:47.349
car, right? To get them to and from
00:35:47.359 --> 00:35:49.510
places. So, there's no microscope on
00:35:49.520 --> 00:35:51.750
what you're spending it on. Just
00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:53.670
understanding it's even though you
00:35:53.680 --> 00:35:55.990
listed all of these expenses in your
00:35:56.000 --> 00:35:58.630
financial affidavit for your child, it's
00:35:58.640 --> 00:36:02.069
not going to be enough to cover that. In
00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:05.349
a divorce order or in agreement, at
00:36:05.359 --> 00:36:07.670
least in ours, there's an agreement a
00:36:07.680 --> 00:36:11.190
percentage of their other expenses. Do
00:36:11.200 --> 00:36:14.630
you have clients list those or do judges
00:36:14.640 --> 00:36:16.870
list those? Like, how does that work? We
00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:18.230
t I talk to people like they're going to
00:36:18.240 --> 00:36:19.589
need a computer someday. They're going
00:36:19.599 --> 00:36:22.950
to need a car insurance, a phone. It's
00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:24.230
different when you're talking to someone
00:36:24.240 --> 00:36:26.310
who has a three-year-old versus a
00:36:26.320 --> 00:36:28.470
13-year-old or an 18-year-old. Who's
00:36:28.480 --> 00:36:31.750
going to pay for college? Where do those
00:36:31.760 --> 00:36:34.630
type of expenses get factored in? Those
00:36:34.640 --> 00:36:37.190
are big high dollar items. But then
00:36:37.200 --> 00:36:40.550
there's also extracurricular activities,
00:36:40.560 --> 00:36:43.430
medical expenses, like where is that
00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:46.950
covered in the divorce agreement or
00:36:46.960 --> 00:36:49.430
orders? So, we'll talk about
00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:51.589
extracurricular medical expenses because
00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:54.069
those are going to be pretty standard
00:36:54.079 --> 00:36:56.390
boilerplate. They will be addressed.
00:36:56.400 --> 00:36:59.109
Medical expenses should be on a
00:36:59.119 --> 00:37:02.150
percentage because when we're doing
00:37:02.160 --> 00:37:05.190
calculations there is a percentage and
00:37:05.200 --> 00:37:09.030
it says on that worksheet okay dad is
00:37:09.040 --> 00:37:12.470
responsible for 70% mom's 30%. So
00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:15.190
whatever that is on that child support
00:37:15.200 --> 00:37:17.829
worksheet that is the reflection that it
00:37:17.839 --> 00:37:20.950
should be on out-of pocket medical it
00:37:20.960 --> 00:37:23.349
should be that same percentage. I think
00:37:23.359 --> 00:37:25.349
it should, you know, I would agree that
00:37:25.359 --> 00:37:28.230
we should do that on all things, but
00:37:28.240 --> 00:37:30.790
that would have to be by agreement. The
00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:34.069
judge may or may not. Extracurricular.
00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:36.950
This one is, you know, ladies, I just,
00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:38.230
if you haven't been through it yet,
00:37:38.240 --> 00:37:39.990
like, just buckle up. Like, if your
00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:42.630
husband, ex-husband is a jerk, he's
00:37:42.640 --> 00:37:45.270
going to still be a jerk, okay? And and
00:37:45.280 --> 00:37:46.470
yes, that's going to affect your
00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:49.910
children. And it it's really frustrating
00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:52.150
because most language
00:37:52.160 --> 00:37:55.349
says all agreed upon extracurricular
00:37:55.359 --> 00:37:57.510
activities. And so then all of a sudden,
00:37:57.520 --> 00:37:59.030
although your child has played soccer
00:37:59.040 --> 00:38:00.790
forever and been on club teams and
00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:01.829
travel teams, they're like, "Well, I
00:38:01.839 --> 00:38:03.589
didn't agree to that." And those are
00:38:03.599 --> 00:38:05.510
very expensive sports or baseball or
00:38:05.520 --> 00:38:06.950
dance, you know, dance is like fine
00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:08.550
until recital time and then oh my
00:38:08.560 --> 00:38:10.150
goodness, you know, it's very expensive.
00:38:10.160 --> 00:38:13.589
And I, you know, there are so many
00:38:13.599 --> 00:38:15.589
issues that can go one way or the other
00:38:15.599 --> 00:38:17.750
in the divorce and and at times you just
00:38:17.760 --> 00:38:20.470
have to decide because
00:38:20.480 --> 00:38:22.630
when we try to micromanage and try to
00:38:22.640 --> 00:38:25.510
put every decision and everything in a
00:38:25.520 --> 00:38:28.870
parenting plan, sometimes that backfires
00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:31.910
and and and that is I'm talking about an
00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:33.589
agreement and they might not want to be
00:38:33.599 --> 00:38:37.349
held to all of those things. So you do
00:38:37.359 --> 00:38:39.349
have to decide. We have to look at the
00:38:39.359 --> 00:38:41.430
big picture and and and make those
00:38:41.440 --> 00:38:43.270
decisions and talk about them.
00:38:43.280 --> 00:38:43.910
>> Yeah.
00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:47.270
>> And that's a really frustrating one that
00:38:47.280 --> 00:38:50.790
if the guy is a jerk, they love to say
00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:52.230
that. I didn't agree to that. It's like
00:38:52.240 --> 00:38:53.829
they've done it their whole life being
00:38:53.839 --> 00:38:55.030
married. It's like, well, now I'm not
00:38:55.040 --> 00:38:57.109
going to do it. And those are hard
00:38:57.119 --> 00:38:58.470
decisions and things that you're going
00:38:58.480 --> 00:39:01.190
to have to make. But I feel like it's
00:39:01.200 --> 00:39:03.349
good to at least
00:39:03.359 --> 00:39:05.990
realize that know it might be coming.
00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:07.910
You know, for most women, it's like, you
00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:09.430
know,
00:39:09.440 --> 00:39:12.069
you are the one married to him. You your
00:39:12.079 --> 00:39:14.390
gut is telling you you're just trying to
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:15.670
you're asking me because you want to
00:39:15.680 --> 00:39:17.270
know if I can make him do something that
00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:18.950
you're pretty sure he won't do.
00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:19.510
>> Yeah.
00:39:19.520 --> 00:39:22.630
>> And and that's that's challenging, but
00:39:22.640 --> 00:39:24.470
that is why you're getting a divorce.
00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:28.950
And so, I mean, you know, it's I you can
00:39:28.960 --> 00:39:30.950
only make them do so much. And that's
00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:32.630
just a big one. And you're going to have
00:39:32.640 --> 00:39:35.750
to the car. Yeah. you have you've always
00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:37.510
your kids have always gotten a car and
00:39:37.520 --> 00:39:39.030
this is the third one and he'll be
00:39:39.040 --> 00:39:40.870
coming up. That would be something like
00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:42.950
you said they're 13 14 it's going to be
00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:45.030
in the near future. It would be
00:39:45.040 --> 00:39:47.589
realistic and wise to at least address
00:39:47.599 --> 00:39:48.550
it.
00:39:48.560 --> 00:39:49.829
>> Most men if they think they're going to
00:39:49.839 --> 00:39:51.349
be on the hook are going to, you know,
00:39:51.359 --> 00:39:52.870
want to weasel out of it and say we'll
00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:54.150
talk about it when it comes and you
00:39:54.160 --> 00:39:55.589
can't make them and a judge isn't going
00:39:55.599 --> 00:39:56.630
to make them.
00:39:56.640 --> 00:39:59.829
>> But if you can get it in there, get it
00:39:59.839 --> 00:40:00.150
in there.
00:40:00.160 --> 00:40:02.790
>> If you can Yeah. Think of all of these
00:40:02.800 --> 00:40:05.270
things. If you can, that is wonderful.
00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:07.510
And understand having it in the
00:40:07.520 --> 00:40:09.430
parenting plan and then later enforcing
00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:11.750
it are really two different things. And
00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:15.190
I I just feel like that's really
00:40:15.200 --> 00:40:16.630
important, right? You can say he's going
00:40:16.640 --> 00:40:19.109
to pay for college, but if he doesn't
00:40:19.119 --> 00:40:21.109
have the ability to do that, they're not
00:40:21.119 --> 00:40:22.710
going to hold him in contempt. He agrees
00:40:22.720 --> 00:40:24.710
to pay for private school if he loses
00:40:24.720 --> 00:40:28.790
his job or what. Like, so understand, we
00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:30.230
can get it in there.
00:40:30.240 --> 00:40:30.550
>> Yeah. Yeah,
00:40:30.560 --> 00:40:32.870
>> but I always do tell them it may or may
00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:34.790
not be even forcible, but if you're okay
00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:35.910
with it, I don't want you to be
00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:38.630
thinking, oh, I will, you know, he will
00:40:38.640 --> 00:40:41.190
have to do this. Circumstances change,
00:40:41.200 --> 00:40:43.750
his things change. It's just and and
00:40:43.760 --> 00:40:46.069
that's the reality that I do think is
00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:47.829
really important to understand.
00:40:47.839 --> 00:40:49.829
>> Yeah. Yeah. I think so, too. I think
00:40:49.839 --> 00:40:51.190
people think, I have it in there, it's
00:40:51.200 --> 00:40:52.390
in the air, and I'm like, then it
00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:54.230
becomes a breach of contract really
00:40:54.240 --> 00:40:56.790
later. And
00:40:56.800 --> 00:40:59.589
how much do you want to spend on that?
00:40:59.599 --> 00:41:01.190
And if they don't have the ability to
00:41:01.200 --> 00:41:02.950
pay, that's the thing. If they don't
00:41:02.960 --> 00:41:04.470
have the money and they can prove it and
00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:05.670
you know they're going to try really
00:41:05.680 --> 00:41:06.470
hard.
00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:07.190
>> Yeah.
00:41:07.200 --> 00:41:08.710
>> And it's going to cost you a lot. And
00:41:08.720 --> 00:41:10.470
those are later on decisions, you know.
00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:11.589
Okay, if you can get it in there, at
00:41:11.599 --> 00:41:14.150
least you guys had talked about it and
00:41:14.160 --> 00:41:17.430
that is what you wanted to do and you
00:41:17.440 --> 00:41:20.630
both agreed to do that and that is great
00:41:20.640 --> 00:41:22.870
if you can, you know, work through
00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:24.870
settlements really thinking about what's
00:41:24.880 --> 00:41:27.750
in the best interest of the children and
00:41:27.760 --> 00:41:29.670
but that doesn't always happen,
00:41:29.680 --> 00:41:30.069
>> right?
00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:32.470
>> But at least you are asking those
00:41:32.480 --> 00:41:33.349
questions.
00:41:33.359 --> 00:41:36.470
>> Yes. Now there are there is a subset of
00:41:36.480 --> 00:41:39.190
men who are difficult to be married to
00:41:39.200 --> 00:41:42.710
but are very worried about how they show
00:41:42.720 --> 00:41:44.870
up and how they appear in the world.
00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:48.150
We're not going to use the n-word, but
00:41:48.160 --> 00:41:50.870
their biggest their biggest concern is
00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:53.109
what people think of them. And that can
00:41:53.119 --> 00:41:57.030
be used to get some of these things
00:41:57.040 --> 00:41:59.510
included like private school and stuff.
00:41:59.520 --> 00:42:00.150
Mhm.
00:42:00.160 --> 00:42:03.349
>> So, I always tell people just take a
00:42:03.359 --> 00:42:05.430
step back for a minute and try not to
00:42:05.440 --> 00:42:08.150
take everything so personally and think
00:42:08.160 --> 00:42:10.230
about how did you get them to do things
00:42:10.240 --> 00:42:11.829
that you wanted them to do when you were
00:42:11.839 --> 00:42:14.470
married to them? What did you do?
00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:17.109
>> Right? Like, can we do that? Can you
00:42:17.119 --> 00:42:19.990
show up that way? Because there are ways
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:23.510
to navigate this and strategize to get
00:42:23.520 --> 00:42:25.670
what you want. But when we're blinded, I
00:42:25.680 --> 00:42:27.349
think in survival mode and we're
00:42:27.359 --> 00:42:30.870
traumatized, it's hard to remember those
00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:31.990
things.
00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:35.270
>> Well, it is. And everything
00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:39.670
seems so and feels feels so monumental.
00:42:39.680 --> 00:42:40.950
So,
00:42:40.960 --> 00:42:43.750
>> if I don't get this, our life is over.
00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:47.430
And and that's hard because
00:42:47.440 --> 00:42:51.670
it you do feel that way and it's scary
00:42:51.680 --> 00:42:54.230
and uncomfortable. I'm not going to say,
00:42:54.240 --> 00:42:55.750
you know, and it's not like you can I
00:42:55.760 --> 00:42:57.349
wouldn't tell somebody, well, don't feel
00:42:57.359 --> 00:42:58.790
that way. I mean, that's just dumb. I
00:42:58.800 --> 00:43:01.109
mean, that's the way you feel.
00:43:01.119 --> 00:43:06.309
It the the further you get out from it,
00:43:06.319 --> 00:43:07.750
the more perspective you're going to
00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:08.950
have.
00:43:08.960 --> 00:43:10.630
>> But it takes time and nobody wants to
00:43:10.640 --> 00:43:11.430
hear that.
00:43:11.440 --> 00:43:12.630
>> Nobody wants to hear that. And I don't
00:43:12.640 --> 00:43:13.510
blame him. I don't blame him. It's a
00:43:13.520 --> 00:43:15.349
stupid thing to say. Oh, time heals it.
00:43:15.359 --> 00:43:16.950
No, it doesn't. It still stinks right
00:43:16.960 --> 00:43:19.990
now and I don't like it. And may and
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:21.589
maybe it's not going to get better, but
00:43:21.599 --> 00:43:23.109
maybe you'll see it differently and you
00:43:23.119 --> 00:43:24.950
should because you'll you'll grow.
00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:28.230
You'll move on. And hopefully you do.
00:43:28.240 --> 00:43:30.710
>> Yeah. So, what does surviving a divorce
00:43:30.720 --> 00:43:33.270
look like and how reclaiming your life?
00:43:33.280 --> 00:43:34.790
What does that look like?
00:43:34.800 --> 00:43:36.870
>> Well, I think the first thing it starts
00:43:36.880 --> 00:43:40.470
with the choice and it's a hard choice
00:43:40.480 --> 00:43:42.630
because nobody wants to identify
00:43:42.640 --> 00:43:45.030
themselves as a victim. But I think
00:43:45.040 --> 00:43:46.550
that's the first thing. Are you going to
00:43:46.560 --> 00:43:48.550
be a victim of this divorce or are you
00:43:48.560 --> 00:43:50.470
going to be, you know, a heroine of this
00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:53.910
divorce? And you do get to choose that.
00:43:53.920 --> 00:43:56.630
>> You really do. And then that's going to
00:43:56.640 --> 00:44:00.470
help with the lens with which you see
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:02.950
things. And I think that's the first
00:44:02.960 --> 00:44:03.910
choice
00:44:03.920 --> 00:44:07.030
>> because then you know you can you can do
00:44:07.040 --> 00:44:09.109
this. You can make it through. But if
00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:13.270
you are and and it's hard to say that
00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:15.349
because that feels so mean and harsh and
00:44:15.359 --> 00:44:17.349
sometimes people women are I've had that
00:44:17.359 --> 00:44:19.190
before you know and they're like well
00:44:19.200 --> 00:44:20.870
you're just you're just too tough and
00:44:20.880 --> 00:44:24.870
it's like I you know I just I know
00:44:24.880 --> 00:44:29.270
you can do this and I I just don't
00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:31.349
believe in you know I I understand it's
00:44:31.359 --> 00:44:33.670
sad and I sad just isn't the best
00:44:33.680 --> 00:44:36.069
emotion to get things done. Anger the
00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:37.430
right amount of anger can be very
00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:39.270
motivating. we can get stuff done, but
00:44:39.280 --> 00:44:41.270
the sadness like it just nothing is
00:44:41.280 --> 00:44:43.270
happening, right? And so you have to
00:44:43.280 --> 00:44:46.630
kind of work through that. But I think
00:44:46.640 --> 00:44:49.030
once you make that choice because if
00:44:49.040 --> 00:44:50.630
you're going to be the victim of him,
00:44:50.640 --> 00:44:51.829
then you're going to be the victim of
00:44:51.839 --> 00:44:53.109
his attorney, then the victim of the
00:44:53.119 --> 00:44:54.309
judge, and then you're going to say the
00:44:54.319 --> 00:44:55.510
victim of your attorney, and they
00:44:55.520 --> 00:44:57.190
everybody is out to get you, and nobody
00:44:57.200 --> 00:44:58.309
did what you wanted.
00:44:58.319 --> 00:44:58.710
>> Yeah,
00:44:58.720 --> 00:45:00.309
>> there are many people who do live like
00:45:00.319 --> 00:45:02.950
that. And I do believe it's a choice and
00:45:02.960 --> 00:45:05.430
it's maybe harsh to say, but
00:45:05.440 --> 00:45:07.589
>> if you can hear it and reflect and think
00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:09.910
about it, you know, think how do I want
00:45:09.920 --> 00:45:12.950
to be? This is happening. I didn't want
00:45:12.960 --> 00:45:14.950
it. I don't want it. You know, I didn't
00:45:14.960 --> 00:45:16.309
see it coming. All those things, those
00:45:16.319 --> 00:45:17.990
are probably all true and valid.
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:20.069
However, and even if you did want it,
00:45:20.079 --> 00:45:21.990
you still might want to kind of play in
00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:24.950
that victim role for a little bit. And
00:45:24.960 --> 00:45:28.309
it's not that I don't understand that. I
00:45:28.319 --> 00:45:30.630
just, you know, decide like, okay, give
00:45:30.640 --> 00:45:31.990
yourself a week. But then I'm like, you
00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:33.750
got to come on. You got stuff to do and
00:45:33.760 --> 00:45:36.150
decisions to make and you you can do so
00:45:36.160 --> 00:45:38.230
much more. You're you have so much more
00:45:38.240 --> 00:45:40.630
to offer this world and you're in
00:45:40.640 --> 00:45:42.069
participation in it.
00:45:42.079 --> 00:45:43.910
>> I always tell clients, there's a window
00:45:43.920 --> 00:45:46.550
of time where I want you to see that you
00:45:46.560 --> 00:45:48.309
were a victim, but we're going to move
00:45:48.319 --> 00:45:50.710
right through that window. I need you to
00:45:50.720 --> 00:45:53.270
see it so that you understand what's
00:45:53.280 --> 00:45:54.870
happened to you and what's been done to
00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:57.589
you enough to motivate you to move on
00:45:57.599 --> 00:46:00.230
and get out of it. But once we start
00:46:00.240 --> 00:46:02.550
moving past it, we're not going to go
00:46:02.560 --> 00:46:04.150
back to it. I don't want you to sit
00:46:04.160 --> 00:46:05.670
there. I don't want you to stay in a
00:46:05.680 --> 00:46:08.630
suffering state for very long. Maybe you
00:46:08.640 --> 00:46:10.550
wake up one day and you're really sad
00:46:10.560 --> 00:46:13.349
and you're feeling horrible. let
00:46:13.359 --> 00:46:17.030
yourself like really let yourself
00:46:17.040 --> 00:46:19.589
for a few hours or that day, but the
00:46:19.599 --> 00:46:21.910
next day we're going to get up and we're
00:46:21.920 --> 00:46:24.630
going to keep moving and get you out of
00:46:24.640 --> 00:46:26.710
it. So, here are the tools to get
00:46:26.720 --> 00:46:28.230
yourself out of that.
00:46:28.240 --> 00:46:30.390
>> It's okay to let things to allow
00:46:30.400 --> 00:46:33.349
yourself to feel all of these things. It
00:46:33.359 --> 00:46:36.309
sucks and this process is terrible.
00:46:36.319 --> 00:46:38.390
>> But you're absolutely right. The minute
00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:41.670
we sit in victimhood or suffering, we're
00:46:41.680 --> 00:46:45.190
making a choice to prolong suffering
00:46:45.200 --> 00:46:48.069
that we don't really need to. So when
00:46:48.079 --> 00:46:50.710
people come initially come in, they're
00:46:50.720 --> 00:46:53.270
scared and they have a lot of fear. What
00:46:53.280 --> 00:46:55.910
do you think that the biggest fear that
00:46:55.920 --> 00:46:58.870
turns out to be accurate is versus the
00:46:58.880 --> 00:47:01.829
one the fears that were never necessary,
00:47:01.839 --> 00:47:04.390
like they never come true? I think that
00:47:04.400 --> 00:47:08.309
the biggest fear that doesn't come true,
00:47:08.319 --> 00:47:11.430
you know, the majority of time absent
00:47:11.440 --> 00:47:13.750
certain circumstances are about your
00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:15.910
children and those are the hardest ones,
00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:17.750
right? Those are they're part of you and
00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:20.390
and and you just want to protect them
00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:22.630
from anything. I mean I I understand
00:47:22.640 --> 00:47:26.550
that I have children and they generally
00:47:26.560 --> 00:47:29.990
are going to be okay if you both are
00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:32.950
okay you know and you know not there are
00:47:32.960 --> 00:47:34.470
a lot of there are a lot of many things
00:47:34.480 --> 00:47:36.470
and mental illness substance abuse so
00:47:36.480 --> 00:47:37.750
I'm just saying you know hey we just
00:47:37.760 --> 00:47:40.069
don't get along he's a jerk sometimes
00:47:40.079 --> 00:47:41.910
I'm not a nice person sometimes but
00:47:41.920 --> 00:47:44.069
overall we're decent people but how are
00:47:44.079 --> 00:47:45.430
my children going to go back and forth
00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:46.710
from two houses and how are they going
00:47:46.720 --> 00:47:48.470
to handle all these different holidays
00:47:48.480 --> 00:47:51.030
and all these things and it it it will
00:47:51.040 --> 00:47:53.349
be challenging but they they will they
00:47:53.359 --> 00:47:55.430
will that I think that is a just a very
00:47:55.440 --> 00:47:57.030
big fear and that's what keeps a lot of
00:47:57.040 --> 00:48:00.710
women from moving forward because they
00:48:00.720 --> 00:48:03.670
are so afraid and I I do you know I mean
00:48:03.680 --> 00:48:06.230
once you have a child you just never
00:48:06.240 --> 00:48:07.670
felt anything like that and you don't
00:48:07.680 --> 00:48:09.750
ever want anything bad to happen but
00:48:09.760 --> 00:48:12.470
that's not reality so I I you know I do
00:48:12.480 --> 00:48:15.510
get it and but most of the time like it
00:48:15.520 --> 00:48:17.430
it works through especially you know and
00:48:17.440 --> 00:48:19.030
and you're scared that's the first thing
00:48:19.040 --> 00:48:20.550
we'll say is please get therapy and get
00:48:20.560 --> 00:48:22.069
therapy for your children. Give them a
00:48:22.079 --> 00:48:23.109
safe space.
00:48:23.119 --> 00:48:26.150
>> It it can be it's so helpful and I just
00:48:26.160 --> 00:48:28.549
don't really see a downside to it
00:48:28.559 --> 00:48:31.109
>> that it's so good. And
00:48:31.119 --> 00:48:35.030
>> you know some of the fears that
00:48:35.040 --> 00:48:36.950
can come true are certainly with the
00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:39.750
finances because especially like that
00:48:39.760 --> 00:48:42.309
very beginning we're not going to have a
00:48:42.319 --> 00:48:45.270
complete picture and you're not going to
00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:48.390
have a complete picture. So that is
00:48:48.400 --> 00:48:49.670
valid. Like I don't know what I don't
00:48:49.680 --> 00:48:50.790
know what's there. I don't know what's
00:48:50.800 --> 00:48:53.109
going to happen. Either do I till we see
00:48:53.119 --> 00:48:54.390
what's there.
00:48:54.400 --> 00:48:56.950
>> And you might not have worked in a very
00:48:56.960 --> 00:48:58.950
long time and you might have to. You
00:48:58.960 --> 00:49:02.230
probably will. You probably will. And
00:49:02.240 --> 00:49:05.270
>> but that's okay. You can be responsible
00:49:05.280 --> 00:49:08.470
for your own financial well-being. He
00:49:08.480 --> 00:49:10.549
may owe you. You may feel all these
00:49:10.559 --> 00:49:13.829
things. And of course, you know, we'll
00:49:13.839 --> 00:49:16.870
do whatever we can within the law and
00:49:16.880 --> 00:49:21.430
what these facts permit. But sometimes
00:49:21.440 --> 00:49:24.470
once you pull the curtain back on the
00:49:24.480 --> 00:49:26.710
financial picture, it's not pretty and
00:49:26.720 --> 00:49:28.870
it's going to be difficult
00:49:28.880 --> 00:49:31.349
>> and maybe you know a lot of times that
00:49:31.359 --> 00:49:33.670
is the reason the marriage is not
00:49:33.680 --> 00:49:35.750
working but there's not adequate
00:49:35.760 --> 00:49:39.670
communication on on how bad things are
00:49:39.680 --> 00:49:42.790
financially and you know and then and I
00:49:42.800 --> 00:49:47.670
know it's scary but you know I have seen
00:49:47.680 --> 00:49:49.030
women are resilient
00:49:49.040 --> 00:49:52.069
you you can do so much and and that's
00:49:52.079 --> 00:49:54.390
why I said that with you know the very
00:49:54.400 --> 00:49:56.710
beginning about how they want to show up
00:49:56.720 --> 00:49:59.510
because you know there's just you know
00:49:59.520 --> 00:50:03.030
obviously the emotions tied to a divorce
00:50:03.040 --> 00:50:04.790
because it's your life right don't take
00:50:04.800 --> 00:50:06.150
it so personally well it is personal
00:50:06.160 --> 00:50:07.510
it's your whole life it's your you know
00:50:07.520 --> 00:50:11.349
it is normal to do that but if he
00:50:11.359 --> 00:50:13.270
dropped dead tomorrow and it was you
00:50:13.280 --> 00:50:16.470
were in a mess financially you'd figure
00:50:16.480 --> 00:50:20.230
it out and it would be challenging and
00:50:20.240 --> 00:50:21.910
it would be difficult but you would do
00:50:21.920 --> 00:50:24.630
it because there's no other option. And
00:50:24.640 --> 00:50:27.270
so just because you think he owes you if
00:50:27.280 --> 00:50:31.510
the money's not there it's not there and
00:50:31.520 --> 00:50:36.390
you can do it and I I try to relate that
00:50:36.400 --> 00:50:39.990
situation to that because nothing is
00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:41.670
promised in life is unpredictable. We
00:50:41.680 --> 00:50:43.670
don't know what's going to happen and
00:50:43.680 --> 00:50:45.750
you know you will grieve your
00:50:45.760 --> 00:50:47.910
relationship your marriage just
00:50:47.920 --> 00:50:51.910
similarly you know in a death situation
00:50:51.920 --> 00:50:53.510
but
00:50:53.520 --> 00:50:55.990
nobody promised you know anybody I mean
00:50:56.000 --> 00:50:58.069
we may have made a lot of promises but
00:50:58.079 --> 00:51:01.510
life happens and yeah it's unpredictable
00:51:01.520 --> 00:51:04.950
we don't know and so it's just you can
00:51:04.960 --> 00:51:07.750
do it and I I just believe that we as
00:51:07.760 --> 00:51:12.549
women sometimes you know just short
00:51:12.559 --> 00:51:14.470
change ourselves or don't think we can
00:51:14.480 --> 00:51:15.910
do it. But you can.
00:51:15.920 --> 00:51:17.990
>> You may not want to. Hey, I understand.
00:51:18.000 --> 00:51:20.309
I ag I I I agree. I You may not want to
00:51:20.319 --> 00:51:23.190
either. However, you can.
00:51:23.200 --> 00:51:26.309
>> Yes. There's so much grief that we don't
00:51:26.319 --> 00:51:29.270
I think people are not prepared for. I
00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:31.510
do I encourage people to do a little
00:51:31.520 --> 00:51:34.309
ceremony saying goodbye to their home. I
00:51:34.319 --> 00:51:36.870
actually had a client in my I have a a
00:51:36.880 --> 00:51:39.990
community on school and she wrote in
00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:42.630
that she just moved out and they sold
00:51:42.640 --> 00:51:44.549
the house and she was like, "I did the
00:51:44.559 --> 00:51:46.309
thing you recommended. I did the
00:51:46.319 --> 00:51:49.270
ceremony to thank the home and say
00:51:49.280 --> 00:51:51.510
goodbye to it and bless it for the next
00:51:51.520 --> 00:51:53.670
family." And I was like, she it seemed
00:51:53.680 --> 00:51:55.349
really silly when you told me to do
00:51:55.359 --> 00:51:58.230
that, but it was closure. I was like,
00:51:58.240 --> 00:52:00.390
"Yeah, because that was our home. home.
00:52:00.400 --> 00:52:02.309
It's where we had our babies. Little
00:52:02.319 --> 00:52:05.349
ceremonies and opportunities to grieve
00:52:05.359 --> 00:52:08.790
and cry and find closure are really
00:52:08.800 --> 00:52:12.150
helpful. They just are. Um those are
00:52:12.160 --> 00:52:14.150
things we don't People do not see coming
00:52:14.160 --> 00:52:15.670
though. They are like, I want to sell
00:52:15.680 --> 00:52:17.190
the house. And then you get ready to
00:52:17.200 --> 00:52:20.309
close and you're like, oh god,
00:52:20.319 --> 00:52:22.230
>> I've had to go pick up mail from my
00:52:22.240 --> 00:52:23.829
house that something was delivered
00:52:23.839 --> 00:52:26.870
there. And I still
00:52:26.880 --> 00:52:29.270
I can't there's no words to describe
00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:31.510
what I feel for that house. Still I
00:52:31.520 --> 00:52:33.510
didn't want to live there anymore. I
00:52:33.520 --> 00:52:35.829
wanted to be divorced.
00:52:35.839 --> 00:52:38.230
But my son was born while we lived
00:52:38.240 --> 00:52:40.790
there. My we had so many memories there
00:52:40.800 --> 00:52:42.470
with family.
00:52:42.480 --> 00:52:46.630
>> So it's a lot. It's getting a divorce is
00:52:46.640 --> 00:52:48.790
so much more
00:52:48.800 --> 00:52:50.710
than a legal. It's breaking a contract,
00:52:50.720 --> 00:52:55.990
but it's so much more than that. Um, and
00:52:56.000 --> 00:52:58.309
there's so much more to take care of in
00:52:58.319 --> 00:53:01.349
ourselves. And it sounds like you you
00:53:01.359 --> 00:53:04.150
get that where I'm not sure every every
00:53:04.160 --> 00:53:07.270
lawyer and every legal team does. And I
00:53:07.280 --> 00:53:09.589
suspect because you teach yoga and you
00:53:09.599 --> 00:53:11.589
understand the nervous system from that
00:53:11.599 --> 00:53:14.630
perspective, it probably does help you
00:53:14.640 --> 00:53:16.790
tremendously to understand what I know
00:53:16.800 --> 00:53:19.829
as a therapist and a somatic healer. We
00:53:19.839 --> 00:53:23.270
need women need guidance and help in
00:53:23.280 --> 00:53:25.589
understanding their nervous system in
00:53:25.599 --> 00:53:26.470
this process.
00:53:26.480 --> 00:53:28.230
>> Yeah, 100%. And you know, when I first
00:53:28.240 --> 00:53:31.190
started doing yoga was around the time
00:53:31.200 --> 00:53:35.190
that I first opened my practice because
00:53:35.200 --> 00:53:39.270
I needed that. I I hear a lot of
00:53:39.280 --> 00:53:42.150
information. And you know, you know this
00:53:42.160 --> 00:53:44.230
Leslie, but like and for our listeners,
00:53:44.240 --> 00:53:45.349
you know, you may have had a rough day
00:53:45.359 --> 00:53:46.549
and talk about it. I can't talk about
00:53:46.559 --> 00:53:48.470
it. Can't talk about anything. It's all
00:53:48.480 --> 00:53:50.390
confidential. It's all attorney client.
00:53:50.400 --> 00:53:52.150
I don't And a lot of times you don't
00:53:52.160 --> 00:53:53.670
really want to. Sometimes that just
00:53:53.680 --> 00:53:56.150
feels like but I can't and I never have.
00:53:56.160 --> 00:53:56.549
>> Yeah.
00:53:56.559 --> 00:53:59.829
>> And because you can't. And so how am I I
00:53:59.839 --> 00:54:01.510
can't let that all sit in my body,
00:54:01.520 --> 00:54:01.990
>> right?
00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:05.829
>> It it's just too much. And so going to
00:54:05.839 --> 00:54:07.670
yoga and it was hot yoga and all you can
00:54:07.680 --> 00:54:09.349
think about is the next breath and the
00:54:09.359 --> 00:54:12.150
next movement was very healing for me.
00:54:12.160 --> 00:54:15.270
And it really allowed me, you know, that
00:54:15.280 --> 00:54:17.829
space just an hour a day if I could go
00:54:17.839 --> 00:54:20.230
every day. I did for quite some time.
00:54:20.240 --> 00:54:23.510
And it was in a it was so good for me.
00:54:23.520 --> 00:54:25.430
And to breathe. I know you're like,
00:54:25.440 --> 00:54:26.549
"Don't forget to breathe." Because I
00:54:26.559 --> 00:54:27.190
know, of course, we're not going to
00:54:27.200 --> 00:54:28.390
forget to breathe, but we're not really
00:54:28.400 --> 00:54:30.390
going to breathe, right? Are we really
00:54:30.400 --> 00:54:32.470
taking that deep breath? Are we really
00:54:32.480 --> 00:54:35.109
centering and
00:54:35.119 --> 00:54:37.430
>> being thankful for something even when
00:54:37.440 --> 00:54:39.109
you're going through just such a rough
00:54:39.119 --> 00:54:45.190
time? And yoga helped me so much
00:54:45.200 --> 00:54:48.150
because, you know, you're building the
00:54:48.160 --> 00:54:50.870
business and and you know, just dealing
00:54:50.880 --> 00:54:52.470
with
00:54:52.480 --> 00:54:55.589
so much stuff. I could then be present
00:54:55.599 --> 00:54:56.790
for my family.
00:54:56.800 --> 00:54:57.430
>> Yeah.
00:54:57.440 --> 00:54:59.349
>> And go home and be present. And that's
00:54:59.359 --> 00:55:00.870
probably was the problem. It probably is
00:55:00.880 --> 00:55:02.309
the problem with most of the family law
00:55:02.319 --> 00:55:03.589
attorneys when I said at the beginning,
00:55:03.599 --> 00:55:05.109
you know, they were just jerks and not
00:55:05.119 --> 00:55:06.309
nice people. Yeah. They need to go to
00:55:06.319 --> 00:55:08.230
yoga. They need to go exercise, you
00:55:08.240 --> 00:55:10.790
know, do something. And I'm just a huge
00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:11.829
>> believer.
00:55:11.839 --> 00:55:12.549
>> You have to release.
00:55:12.559 --> 00:55:15.430
>> There has to be a release. And and and I
00:55:15.440 --> 00:55:17.990
I also play tennis. I'm a tennis player.
00:55:18.000 --> 00:55:21.270
And but it's different. That's a great
00:55:21.280 --> 00:55:22.549
release. And that's really good for me
00:55:22.559 --> 00:55:25.510
in my competitive nature. But the yoga,
00:55:25.520 --> 00:55:27.829
it's the breathing. It's the breathing
00:55:27.839 --> 00:55:31.270
that we don't really focus on. And it
00:55:31.280 --> 00:55:33.670
can make such a huge difference.
00:55:33.680 --> 00:55:36.630
>> Yeah. Yep. I teach right out of the gate
00:55:36.640 --> 00:55:39.589
like body scans and meditation and I'm
00:55:39.599 --> 00:55:41.510
like it's going to help you. You're
00:55:41.520 --> 00:55:44.069
going to be sitting in a mediation and
00:55:44.079 --> 00:55:45.829
you're going to feel your chest tighten
00:55:45.839 --> 00:55:47.589
instead of right now you don't even know
00:55:47.599 --> 00:55:49.109
what's happening to your body. You're so
00:55:49.119 --> 00:55:52.549
out of touch with it and people are
00:55:52.559 --> 00:55:53.990
there's always a push back. I can't
00:55:54.000 --> 00:55:56.150
meditate. I'm like okay then listen to
00:55:56.160 --> 00:55:58.230
these body scans I'm giving you. Focus
00:55:58.240 --> 00:56:00.950
on the breath. Focus on your body. Do it
00:56:00.960 --> 00:56:02.549
while you're walking. Do it while you're
00:56:02.559 --> 00:56:05.510
doing an activity if you need to. But
00:56:05.520 --> 00:56:07.510
yeah, we should be teaching kids, that's
00:56:07.520 --> 00:56:08.950
a whole another tangent. We should be
00:56:08.960 --> 00:56:11.270
teaching the yoga and the mindfulness
00:56:11.280 --> 00:56:14.150
and the meditation to people very early
00:56:14.160 --> 00:56:15.670
in life
00:56:15.680 --> 00:56:18.069
>> because it's a skill set we all need,
00:56:18.079 --> 00:56:19.910
whether we're a practicing attorney or
00:56:19.920 --> 00:56:22.069
we're going through this process. So, I
00:56:22.079 --> 00:56:24.150
want to I know we need to wrap up here
00:56:24.160 --> 00:56:27.190
in a second, but I wanted to just talk
00:56:27.200 --> 00:56:30.069
for a second if you don't mind about you
00:56:30.079 --> 00:56:32.789
have collected these stories and you
00:56:32.799 --> 00:56:34.789
share them at least in one of your
00:56:34.799 --> 00:56:37.349
books. How did
00:56:37.359 --> 00:56:41.750
>> writing them, writing out the stories
00:56:41.760 --> 00:56:45.670
teach you to be, did it help you become
00:56:45.680 --> 00:56:47.829
even a better practitioner than you were
00:56:47.839 --> 00:56:49.349
before?
00:56:49.359 --> 00:56:51.990
How did that work sharing those stories?
00:56:52.000 --> 00:56:55.589
>> So, it was very inspiring, very
00:56:55.599 --> 00:57:00.230
inspiring. And that was why I asked
00:57:00.240 --> 00:57:02.069
these women to share their stories so
00:57:02.079 --> 00:57:04.870
that we could write about that because
00:57:04.880 --> 00:57:08.710
there is life after divorce. And there
00:57:08.720 --> 00:57:11.750
is and and I would hate for anyone to
00:57:11.760 --> 00:57:14.069
lose hope. And I know that can seem
00:57:14.079 --> 00:57:17.430
really difficult when you're in it. I
00:57:17.440 --> 00:57:20.390
recognize that. But I thought if I could
00:57:20.400 --> 00:57:24.150
create book a book and out of I think we
00:57:24.160 --> 00:57:26.069
have eight chapters I I'm thinking about
00:57:26.079 --> 00:57:28.230
you know re redoing you know adding on
00:57:28.240 --> 00:57:30.950
to some more stories but I bet one of
00:57:30.960 --> 00:57:33.750
those stories will resonate with you.
00:57:33.760 --> 00:57:34.230
>> Yeah.
00:57:34.240 --> 00:57:37.349
>> And they're not all like it's it's real
00:57:37.359 --> 00:57:39.589
stories and it's tough. They had tough
00:57:39.599 --> 00:57:41.750
situations, substance abuse, mental
00:57:41.760 --> 00:57:44.870
health issues, some their own, some
00:57:44.880 --> 00:57:47.910
their spouse. And and the reason I share
00:57:47.920 --> 00:57:49.750
that is because there's nowhere else,
00:57:49.760 --> 00:57:51.430
you know, you're not alone and I know
00:57:51.440 --> 00:57:53.510
you feel alone. And that's what I felt
00:57:53.520 --> 00:57:56.630
like that book could show you. Okay, she
00:57:56.640 --> 00:57:59.109
went through this and this is her story
00:57:59.119 --> 00:58:04.309
and she survived and and even enough so
00:58:04.319 --> 00:58:06.870
that she was able to talk about it
00:58:06.880 --> 00:58:10.470
>> and and was willing to share her story
00:58:10.480 --> 00:58:12.309
in that book. And those are all real
00:58:12.319 --> 00:58:13.910
clients of ours. you know, we change the
00:58:13.920 --> 00:58:17.589
names and everything, but I think that
00:58:17.599 --> 00:58:20.789
is what sometimes gets lost because
00:58:20.799 --> 00:58:23.510
divorce does feel so lonely
00:58:23.520 --> 00:58:25.589
>> and you just don't know how am I going
00:58:25.599 --> 00:58:29.270
to do this because in your vicinity, you
00:58:29.280 --> 00:58:31.109
know, as far as the women, you know,
00:58:31.119 --> 00:58:32.309
you're like, well, they're not having to
00:58:32.319 --> 00:58:34.230
do this. What am I going to do? And you
00:58:34.240 --> 00:58:38.309
it's it's just hard to to grasp it. And
00:58:38.319 --> 00:58:42.230
that's what I felt like those stories
00:58:42.240 --> 00:58:44.630
would do for other women. And they
00:58:44.640 --> 00:58:47.510
inspired me. I was just like, "Wow." You
00:58:47.520 --> 00:58:49.430
know, and they that they shared it. I I
00:58:49.440 --> 00:58:52.309
I I feel so honored that they I mean,
00:58:52.319 --> 00:58:54.069
even though we were alongside them
00:58:54.079 --> 00:58:57.349
during it, but they shared it again
00:58:57.359 --> 00:58:59.190
for that purpose. And maybe this will
00:58:59.200 --> 00:59:00.230
help someone else.
00:59:00.240 --> 00:59:02.710
>> Yeah. I'm really touched by how many of
00:59:02.720 --> 00:59:05.829
my clients want to do something in the
00:59:05.839 --> 00:59:09.030
space of helping afterward in in many
00:59:09.040 --> 00:59:10.470
different ways.
00:59:10.480 --> 00:59:13.510
>> But I think it's very powerful. We learn
00:59:13.520 --> 00:59:17.109
and we love to
00:59:17.119 --> 00:59:19.349
um hear stories that resonate and sound
00:59:19.359 --> 00:59:22.069
like ours and hear
00:59:22.079 --> 00:59:25.030
what where people landed. There's a book
00:59:25.040 --> 00:59:27.430
called The Good Divorce, and I would I
00:59:27.440 --> 00:59:28.950
couldn't read it the whole divorce, but
00:59:28.960 --> 00:59:32.950
I would go to it sometimes. It's not all
00:59:32.960 --> 00:59:34.630
good in there, right? There's some
00:59:34.640 --> 00:59:37.910
really hard stuff in that book, but I so
00:59:37.920 --> 00:59:40.470
desperately wanted the after period to
00:59:40.480 --> 00:59:43.190
be good. I wanted us to all be getting
00:59:43.200 --> 00:59:46.549
along and everything to be peaceful. And
00:59:46.559 --> 00:59:48.470
so, I went to that book during the
00:59:48.480 --> 00:59:53.190
process for hope. And it was there. And
00:59:53.200 --> 00:59:55.670
I always tell my clients, the day that
00:59:55.680 --> 00:59:57.510
the divorce papers were signed, the day
00:59:57.520 --> 01:00:00.230
before was the just as stressful as
01:00:00.240 --> 01:00:02.870
every other day of the divorce, waiting,
01:00:02.880 --> 01:00:05.510
knowing the agreement was out there in
01:00:05.520 --> 01:00:09.510
his hands waiting to be signed. But the
01:00:09.520 --> 01:00:11.430
moment my son walked through the door
01:00:11.440 --> 01:00:14.230
with the signed paper, there was there
01:00:14.240 --> 01:00:18.069
is no way to describe how quickly my
01:00:18.079 --> 01:00:20.470
life transitioned from being in this
01:00:20.480 --> 01:00:24.470
process and living in fear to relief and
01:00:24.480 --> 01:00:27.990
freedom instantly, like a flip switch.
01:00:28.000 --> 01:00:29.670
And that doesn't happen for everyone
01:00:29.680 --> 01:00:31.670
either, but it did for me. And it was
01:00:31.680 --> 01:00:35.430
like I went into an oasis. I was like,
01:00:35.440 --> 01:00:38.069
"Thank God it's over. there is an end
01:00:38.079 --> 01:00:40.470
point when there's an agreement or
01:00:40.480 --> 01:00:42.309
there's an order and you can start
01:00:42.319 --> 01:00:44.309
living your life. And
01:00:44.319 --> 01:00:44.710
>> yes,
01:00:44.720 --> 01:00:46.710
>> I think people it's really hard to see
01:00:46.720 --> 01:00:49.750
that coming when you're especially in
01:00:49.760 --> 01:00:51.990
these high conflict situations which
01:00:52.000 --> 01:00:54.549
tend to be feel like everyone's in a
01:00:54.559 --> 01:00:57.030
high conflict situation right now. But
01:00:57.040 --> 01:01:00.549
yeah, there's an end in sight and
01:01:00.559 --> 01:01:02.069
it's wonderful that you've shared those
01:01:02.079 --> 01:01:04.470
stories so people can see that and see
01:01:04.480 --> 01:01:06.710
where people go afterward. So, I love
01:01:06.720 --> 01:01:07.670
that.
01:01:07.680 --> 01:01:08.069
>> Yeah.
01:01:08.079 --> 01:01:09.190
>> Oh, thank you.
01:01:09.200 --> 01:01:11.109
>> Yeah. Thank you for coming on and
01:01:11.119 --> 01:01:12.549
joining. There's a million more
01:01:12.559 --> 01:01:14.390
questions that I could ask you and
01:01:14.400 --> 01:01:17.990
share, but I appreciate you sharing and
01:01:18.000 --> 01:01:20.069
sharing on your own podcast your
01:01:20.079 --> 01:01:24.150
expertise. So many women need that and
01:01:24.160 --> 01:01:28.309
are looking for answers and help. And we
01:01:28.319 --> 01:01:31.109
live in a a time when they can get a lot
01:01:31.119 --> 01:01:34.069
of help from YouTube and the Apple
01:01:34.079 --> 01:01:37.510
podcast and just really grateful for
01:01:37.520 --> 01:01:39.109
people who like you who are sharing
01:01:39.119 --> 01:01:41.270
their expertise
01:01:41.280 --> 01:01:42.150
and wisdom.
01:01:42.160 --> 01:01:45.270
>> Well, well, thank you so much for having
01:01:45.280 --> 01:01:47.430
me on and it's just a it's just a
01:01:47.440 --> 01:01:49.109
pleasure and an honor to be able to help
01:01:49.119 --> 01:01:51.829
people and I do believe information is
01:01:51.839 --> 01:01:54.470
power. So, you know, I want to share
01:01:54.480 --> 01:01:57.349
what we know and how we, you know, give
01:01:57.359 --> 01:01:58.950
lots of resources.
01:01:58.960 --> 01:02:02.390
>> Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you. If anyone is
01:02:02.400 --> 01:02:04.630
listening, all of your information is
01:02:04.640 --> 01:02:07.190
going to be in the show notes on all of
01:02:07.200 --> 01:02:10.549
the the places, YouTube, Apple, Spotify,
01:02:10.559 --> 01:02:14.069
Amazon, and we'll have links to your I
01:02:14.079 --> 01:02:15.670
believe you have a link tree, which is
01:02:15.680 --> 01:02:18.230
great. Everything is in there, but we'll
01:02:18.240 --> 01:02:20.150
also have a link to your social media
01:02:20.160 --> 01:02:22.549
sites and your website and everything
01:02:22.559 --> 01:02:25.750
for people who want to reach out. And I
01:02:25.760 --> 01:02:27.430
believe your books are in your link tree
01:02:27.440 --> 01:02:29.190
as well, right?
01:02:29.200 --> 01:02:30.630
>> Yes, they should be. Yes.
01:02:30.640 --> 01:02:34.069
>> So, yes, thank you so much. I appreciate
01:02:34.079 --> 01:02:35.430
you. Thanks to everybody who's
01:02:35.440 --> 01:02:36.950
listening. If you have questions, you
01:02:36.960 --> 01:02:40.789
can always DM me, reach out, and happy
01:02:40.799 --> 01:02:42.789
to answer any of those and direct you in
01:02:42.799 --> 01:02:46.309
the right to the right space. So thanks
01:02:46.319 --> 01:02:50.520
everyone and thank you