Why High Achievers Self-Sabotage and How to Stop It with TEDx Speaker Natalie Siston

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This file was generated by Descript
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Sara Murray: You're listening to
Prospecting on Purpose, where we
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discuss all things prospecting,
sales, business, and mindset.
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I'm your host, Sara Murray, a sales
champion who's here to show you that you
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can be a shark in business and still lead
with intentionality and authenticity.
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Tune in each week as we dive into methods
to connect with clients, communicate
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with confidence, and close the deal.
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My guest today is Natalie Sisten.
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She's the bestselling
author of Let Her Out.
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She took the TEDx stage in Worthington,
Ohio this spring and it just
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released last week, and she is one
of the first people in the world
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certified in positive intelligence.
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And through that framework, she has
taught leaders all over the world.
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She's an amazing keynote stage presenter,
and she's an awesome new friend.
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So Natalie, welcome to
Prospecting on Purpose.
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Natalie Siston: I, I'm ready for this.
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I think we're gonna, we're gonna go fast
and we're gonna dig, dig deep and go far.
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Let's do it.
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Sara Murray: I can't wait.
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Well, I very much felt kindred spirit
from, with you the s- you know, the second
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we met, and I know you feel the same.
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So it was like I have to have her on
the show, 'cause Natalie has so much,
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just like a wealth of information, and
she was able to share, you know, a, a
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snippet of it with her recent TEDx talk
that just launched last week, August,
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you know, the third week of August.
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So Natalie, let's just start there.
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Tell us about your TEDx talk.
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Natalie Siston: My TEDx talk, gosh,
I mean, we're only gonna do the high
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levels here, but it's 10 years, maybe
32 years in the making, Sara, because I,
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I'm one of those people who was trying,
trying, trying to get on the stage,
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and finally stopped about five years
ago even trying, which of course, as we
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all know, is when things happen for us.
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So this year an opportunity
came to take a stage local.
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I am located in Ohio, so I
really was on my hometown stage.
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And I delivered a talk that until
three weeks before I took the
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stage was not the talk, Sara.
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I, yeah, I, I was working
with a coach who's fantastic.
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Acacia, I love you so much, so, so much.
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and we were meeting to have
me go through my run-through.
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This is three weeks before, Sara.
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I expected to walk into that session,
deliver my TEDx, have her standing
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ovation, applause, best student ever
kinda moment, which we'll dig into
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a lot of that as we get to the end
of el- our talk, I have a feeling.
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And I remember we got to the end of the
conversation, or my, my presentation,
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and she looked at me, and so kindly
just said, "We can do better."
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And Sara, she taught me something
that, like, led to the talk
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that's now available, and I'll,
I'll speak to that in a second.
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But she taught me a lesson that
I think anybody listening to
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your podcast needs to understand.
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I d- I don't care if you're out selling.
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I don't care if you're
out, you know, keynoting.
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I don't care if you're just simply
trying to get your message across
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to your manager and your team.
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But you need to share the stories, and you
need to share o- only what you can share.
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Because what she told me upon that first
review was somebody else could have
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given that talk, and that floored me,
and it had me rewrite the entire thing
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three weeks before I took the stage, and
it was the best decision that I've ever
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made because quite frankly, if you listen
to my TED Talk, and I, I hope people go
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listen to, to it all day long, no one
else can give that talk because it's so
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specific to my story and my idea, which
is called Thoughts Bloom: Plant Wisely.
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at my root I am a studier
of human behavior.
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I am a studier of thoughts,
and that's what came forward in
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my 11 minutes and 36 seconds.
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Sara Murray: Oh, you know, that's
such an interesting takeaway from
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your coach too, because I feel like
you're right, that translates into
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really any role, especially now.
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You know, this concept of a personal
brand is really now a strategic
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necessity, it, to stand out in, in the
noise, whether you're trying to upsell
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internally or, you know, communicate to
someone outside of your organization.
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But the point of, like, people are buying
you, when you're listening to a TEDx
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talk or any, you know, real motivational
presentation or something that's supposed
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to inspire, you wanna make sure that it
is coming from a place of authenticity.
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So it is, … I would, I would … brutal
to receive that detailed, that feedback,
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but that's why you want to up level.
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And you're right, your talk was so cute.
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I feel really connected to it.
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you know, guys, I'll link it in
the show notes, but Natalie starts
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with, like, her Hello Kitty diary,
and I am a really big journaler too,
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more so coming out of the pandemic.
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But I just felt like, I'm like, oh, part
of me wanted to have all my journals
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to show Natalie on this call, too.
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So it was just finding these
different connection points.
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And when you talk … So the,
you know, thoughts bloom.
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Be very intentional which,
what seeds you're planting.
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I wanted to ask you, just, kind of get
to a hard question right out the gate.
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Sometimes I feel like we might have
a seed implanted in our brains that's
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maybe, we may be unintentionally
watering something that's hurting us.
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So I kind of just wanted to, go
straight to the source and have you of
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coach us through w- how can, what can
we do if our thoughts are negative?
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Natalie Siston: Oh gosh, well that's,
that is the punchline of this entire
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talk, right, is this idea of, there,
there has, there have been many
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studies to discuss what does the ratio
need to be of this, your, you know,
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positive to negative thoughts to be in
more of an optimistic state of mind.
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I will admit, even since I came across
the piece of data in 2020 that inspired
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a lot of my work, it's been debated.
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It's been debunked.
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It's been said.
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It's kinda like the, all the
studies of how long does it
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take to start a good habit.
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Some things are 21 days, some is
90, some is like, I don't know,
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whenever you decide to say, "Yes,
I'll, I'll make this a habit."
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And so, for me, I think the, what's
important for people to understand
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about your negative thoughts is actually
try to understand what it specifically
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is and why- where it rears its head.
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And I know we're planning to talk
about saboteurs, but this to me
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feels exactly like the place where
we could talk about that if you want
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Sara Murray: Yeah.
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Okay, so what is it specifically
and where is it stemming from?
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And, you know, now I give a, a little
sneak peek on a saboteur, which
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I have now learned to spell that
word prepping for this interview.
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Apparently I really had a
hard time spelling saboteur.
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But,
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Natalie Siston: okay.
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My talk-to-text always makes it Salvatore,
and I'm like, "No, I have used this
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word over and over for six years.
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You should know."
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Sara Murray: Well, and so yeah,
so let's maybe, let's start there.
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Maybe before, let's orient the audience
a little bit on, you know, in your, in
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your bio, we talk about mental fitness,
and you are someone who is an expert
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at mental fitness, and that's through a
framework called Positive Intelligence.
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And I understand you were the second
person in the world certified to
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deliver the con- the curriculum,
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Natalie Siston: That's, I was the
second certified positive intelligence
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coach in the world and served
as lead global presenter as well
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Sara Murray: Wow.
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And so for someone listening, you
know, we've been hearing the word
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mindset a lot, but what is different
between mindset and mental fitness?
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Natalie Siston: Mental fitness
is our ability to respond to
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life's challenges from a positive
rather than negative place.
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So if you think about the
word mindset, it's static.
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How, how you are thinking in any
given moment is your mindset.
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That is a state.
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Mental fitness can be strengthened.
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It can be weakened.
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It can grow, it can
flex, and it can change.
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And so if you wanna think about
changing your mindset, you have
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to assess how mentally fit am I?
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And I, I work out almost every single day.
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I'm right now in the heavy
weightlifting phase, Sara, and
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so I'm tracking my weights.
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And I think of mental fitness
very much like physical fitness.
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Like, I have to track what am I doing?
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What am I putting into my brain?
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To go back to where you started this
conversation, like, do some of us
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just naturally have some of these
seeds planted that are negative,
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and what do you do about them?
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And yeah, absolutely.
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We have all been wired to survive.
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That's why this body of work exists,
because, you know, if we were left
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to our own devices, we would always
be fearful that the tiger's gonna
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come snatch us out from the jungle.
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We don't live in the jungle
anymore, but we've kept those
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same thought patterns here.
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So we immediately will, will latch onto
the next email that comes in, the next
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text that pops up, the next sentence
that comes out of someone's mouth, and
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we're immediately gonna send that into
the neural pathways in the regions of our
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brain that are like, "Alert, alert, alert.
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Negative, negative, negative," to survive.
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That's, that can be a mindset.
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But through mental fitness, we learn
to strengthen the neural pathways
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that make it possible for that same
question to be asked, that same text
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to come in, that same email to pop
on our screen, and instead we're able
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to take some necessary steps that we
can talk about as, as in-depth as you
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want, and open up the regions of our
brain that are more positive, that are
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open to curiosity, that are open to
connection, that are open to even love.
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And so really, it's the mindset.
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It's saying, "Where am I right
now, and how do I wanna be?"
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And you know, for me, it's like
I would like to be stronger, and
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so I'm lifting heavier weights.
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And so from a mindset
it's like, you know what?
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If I know I need to be at this 3:1 ratio,
most of us, Sara, are like 50/50 or lower.
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We're more probably, like, flipped.
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That, that, that ratio is flipped for most
people because of that survival tendency
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Sara Murray: Okay, so men- mindset is
a state, and it's just, like, static.
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And, and I…
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That makes a lot of sense when you break
it down that way because I think, "Oh,
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yeah, I'm naturally optimistic," but I
do think that that's a muscle that I've
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practiced over time, which is great
'cause I like having an optimistic
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perspective, but it does take effort,
and it does really, you have to, you
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have to be mindful of what you're saying.
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And would you mind giving a little
bit deeper definition on the
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three-to-one ratio you just mentioned?
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Natalie Siston: Yeah, so this comes
from, there is a, an assessment,
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it's called the PQ score assessment,
and you can look at that through
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the Positive Intelligence website.
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But this is or sort of a snapshot
in time of h- what are your
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thoughts like on any given day.
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And through this
measurement, you get a score.
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You get your PQ score, and
it looks like a vortex.
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And so if you are above 75%
positive thoughts, you're kind
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of in this thriving space.
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You're in this space of open to
challenges, open to possibilities more.
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your mental fitness is indeed stronger.
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The lower that score is just shows that
challenges are gonna weigh you down more,
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and that you're going to get bogged down.
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It's, you're not going to recover as
fast, and that's really what this three
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to one is all about, is it's gonna
shift on a day-to-day basis, right?
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And that, that's why I like to tell
people this, this assessment is, is fluid.
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You can have a really terrible day
and your score is not gonna be good.
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You can have a great day, your
score is gonna be really high.
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Over time, though, we want
that baseline to grow, right?
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Because you're taking steps to recognize
what your mindset is and say, "How
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am I doing on my mental fitness?"
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Take steps to then increase that baseline.
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So over time, if you're taking the
steps, it can grow, and it's malleable
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dependent on current day circumstances.
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Sara Murray: Okay, cool.
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So that, that's helpful, and I
like that you give us the human
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out of it can change and be fluid.
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But the three-to-one
ratio then is, like, 75…
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If you're in the top 75%, that's three,
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Natalie Siston: Yes
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Sara Murray: of a unit of time,
and then one would be the, kind
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of the, the negative or the,
the things that bog us down.
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Like, anyone gets bogged down, even
if you are a super optimistic person.
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Okay, that's cool.
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I love that, and your TED Talk
d- ties into that more too.
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So definitely, listeners, take time
to listen to Natalie's TEDx Talk
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too so we get more details there.
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Natalie Siston: Yeah, and I give
a, and I give a great exercise
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that I've practiced and given.
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So for anybody listening who wants
something hands-on to do, you're
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not just gonna be listening to me
talk about my Hello Kitty diaries.
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It goes way deep and, and there's…
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And I can't do anything without
giving someone a little, a little
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gift in the form of questions or an
exercise, and it's, it's all packed
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in there, for everyone to listen to
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Sara Murray: Oh, I loved it.
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And you know, it's funny, Natalie,
in my workshops that I do with teams,
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I actually do a three-to-one ratio
too, but it's a little bit different.
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It's not in mindset land, but it's
in if you're going to take action
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on something, what are three outputs
that you can get from that one action?
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so that is really what determines if
something's like a big rock versus like
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little minutia that's wasting your time.
00:12:48.001 --> 00:12:52.931
But if I can do a free webinar, but
I get to record it, I get to capture
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testimonials, I get to build my email
list, I get to use that for future,
00:12:56.831 --> 00:13:00.841
sales assets, okay, it's worth it to
me to do that free webinar because I
00:13:00.841 --> 00:13:02.461
can get these three things out of it.
00:13:02.471 --> 00:13:04.591
So that's been something that I've
been teaching a little bit of a
00:13:04.591 --> 00:13:07.381
different way, but I like that
there's like actual logic behind it.
00:13:08.049 --> 00:13:10.229
Natalie Siston: I think
people like simplicity, Sara.
00:13:10.289 --> 00:13:13.419
You know, the more I've dug into
the, quote, "harder science," the
00:13:13.419 --> 00:13:17.749
simpler I try to make things because
if people wanna go down a rabbit
00:13:17.749 --> 00:13:21.259
hole and learn all the neuroscience
behind this, they can look it all up.
00:13:21.279 --> 00:13:22.879
It's, it's there for the taking.
00:13:23.209 --> 00:13:25.439
I think most people want
the shortcut, though.
00:13:25.459 --> 00:13:27.329
They want to know exactly
what you're saying to them.
00:13:27.329 --> 00:13:29.829
How do I know if I wanna
say yes to this experience?
00:13:30.169 --> 00:13:32.289
Oh, am I getting the
three things out of it?
00:13:32.589 --> 00:13:37.129
And for me, you know, my kiddo, I have
teenage daughters, and I do this a lot.
00:13:37.139 --> 00:13:41.519
They'll get in the car, "Oh my gosh,
soccer practice was so hard today."
00:13:41.539 --> 00:13:42.339
And I'm like, "Okay.
00:13:42.339 --> 00:13:43.729
Well, tell me three good things.
00:13:43.839 --> 00:13:45.439
Tell me the three positive thoughts."
00:13:45.469 --> 00:13:49.839
And they roll their eyes, of course,
because they're teenagers, and then
00:13:50.279 --> 00:13:53.799
typically proceed to come up with a
pretty strong list of what's going right.
00:13:54.149 --> 00:13:55.309
And that's really what we're doing.
00:13:55.309 --> 00:14:00.509
We're priming ourselves to be in the
positive because if we're primed, we're
00:14:00.509 --> 00:14:02.189
more likely to go there naturally.
00:14:02.229 --> 00:14:03.459
We can recover faster.
00:14:03.459 --> 00:14:04.759
That baseline gets higher
00:14:05.619 --> 00:14:06.559
Sara Murray: You know, that is…
00:14:06.649 --> 00:14:08.869
I love the, I love the soccer example.
00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:11.899
and that it ties back to the journals
too, because I will tell you one thing
00:14:11.899 --> 00:14:15.839
that I do when something goes wrong,
let's say I lost a deal, or in my
00:14:15.859 --> 00:14:19.319
corporate life, you know, something,
something happened that felt, you know,
00:14:19.319 --> 00:14:20.799
I felt like a victim or something.
00:14:21.059 --> 00:14:24.179
One thing I would do is I would
sit and I write down, what is all
00:14:24.189 --> 00:14:25.869
the good that's coming out of this?
00:14:26.069 --> 00:14:29.979
okay, this client didn't hire me because
they wanted to go with a bigger vendor.
00:14:30.029 --> 00:14:32.169
Okay, well, what is the
good that comes out of that?
00:14:32.419 --> 00:14:37.189
Great, I get to maybe reevaluate my
website because I am a big vendor too, but
00:14:37.189 --> 00:14:39.029
maybe my website wasn't reflecting that.
00:14:39.429 --> 00:14:42.579
Now I can go after that person's
competitor and not feel bad about it.
00:14:42.589 --> 00:14:44.839
You know, what are the good
things that come out of this?
00:14:44.839 --> 00:14:47.429
And I think that's a great
exercise for anyone listening
00:14:47.429 --> 00:14:49.759
because you do lose deals a lot.
00:14:49.759 --> 00:14:52.709
You do have bad things happen, so I
like looking at like the blessings
00:14:52.709 --> 00:14:53.939
that come out of it is really cool.
00:14:54.507 --> 00:14:57.867
Natalie Siston: And Sara, you are doing
something that you probably realize
00:14:57.907 --> 00:15:00.827
'cause you're a very smart person,
but for those listening to just get,
00:15:00.827 --> 00:15:04.727
draw that lesson out of it is when you
empty those thoughts out of your head,
00:15:04.737 --> 00:15:06.427
you're less likely to ruminate on them.
00:15:06.427 --> 00:15:10.587
You're less likely to jolt awake
at 3:00 in the morning with this
00:15:10.597 --> 00:15:15.807
feeling of victimhood or, you know,
frustration or anger that that's normal.
00:15:15.817 --> 00:15:16.757
That's completely normal.
00:15:16.757 --> 00:15:21.567
But if when you empty your brain of
those thoughts, then it's primed to
00:15:21.587 --> 00:15:24.347
not just be in that, that drudgery
00:15:25.133 --> 00:15:26.653
Sara Murray: Yeah, who has time for that?
00:15:26.653 --> 00:15:28.273
And your TEDx said it so beautifully.
00:15:28.273 --> 00:15:31.473
You said from your, goes from your head
to your heart out through your hand,
00:15:31.473 --> 00:15:33.243
and I really like that line in the talk.
00:15:33.573 --> 00:15:35.563
so let's talk a little bit
about positive intelligence.
00:15:35.593 --> 00:15:35.923
Natalie Siston: Sure.
00:15:35.999 --> 00:15:36.239
Sara Murray: it?
00:15:36.469 --> 00:15:36.919
'Cause this is…
00:15:36.919 --> 00:15:38.649
I, I hadn't heard of it until I met you
00:15:39.413 --> 00:15:42.403
Natalie Siston: Which is crazy because
I've been embedded in it for six
00:15:42.403 --> 00:15:45.033
years, and so my world obviously has…
00:15:45.063 --> 00:15:46.893
It's become the red car of my world.
00:15:46.893 --> 00:15:48.693
Like, there are red cars everywhere.
00:15:49.113 --> 00:15:53.883
And, so Positive Intelligence was
founded by a man named Shirzad Chamine.
00:15:53.893 --> 00:15:55.953
He is, he has his MBA from Stanford.
00:15:55.953 --> 00:15:57.263
He's an engineer by training.
00:15:57.523 --> 00:16:00.513
And I do like to tell the origin
story because that, to me, it's
00:16:00.513 --> 00:16:04.393
what makes it click and make it,
for me, be what works the best
00:16:04.403 --> 00:16:06.113
when it comes to my mindset growth.
00:16:06.583 --> 00:16:10.533
He was struggling with why
doesn't it work, and the it
00:16:10.583 --> 00:16:12.333
was listening to podcasts.
00:16:12.363 --> 00:16:14.383
No offense, Sara, your podcast is awesome.
00:16:14.683 --> 00:16:19.753
But listening to podcasts, reading books,
going on really long week-long meditation
00:16:19.753 --> 00:16:24.333
retreats, coming back and not feeling any
better, not performing any, any better,
00:16:24.333 --> 00:16:26.123
not having healthier relationships.
00:16:26.533 --> 00:16:29.983
And so he set off to solve the
answer to his own question.
00:16:30.243 --> 00:16:33.853
And through both secondary and
primary research, he came up with
00:16:34.213 --> 00:16:38.053
what is Positive Intelligence, where
there's basically three components.
00:16:38.413 --> 00:16:42.383
There are 10 negative thought
patterns called saboteurs, and
00:16:42.383 --> 00:16:44.863
you took the assessment, so I'll
be able to read your tea leaves
00:16:44.863 --> 00:16:46.883
momentarily, shall you allow me to.
00:16:47.513 --> 00:16:52.023
Then on the other side is something
called sage, which is our positive thought
00:16:52.043 --> 00:16:56.693
response, and in the middle is something
called self-command, and that is where
00:16:56.693 --> 00:17:00.923
we become more in command of our mind
than our mind being in command of us.
00:17:01.343 --> 00:17:05.083
And so there's a really beautiful, simple
methodology that pulls all of those
00:17:05.103 --> 00:17:09.833
elements together, where when you can be
aware of your negative thought patterns,
00:17:09.833 --> 00:17:12.683
your saboteurs, you can then intercept.
00:17:12.693 --> 00:17:16.803
You can do something with them, and
through that you grow your self-command.
00:17:16.813 --> 00:17:17.993
You grow your mental fitness.
00:17:17.993 --> 00:17:21.763
You're lifting heavier weights when
it comes to your mindset status, which
00:17:21.773 --> 00:17:25.683
then allows you to experience more
of life in sage through this positive
00:17:25.683 --> 00:17:28.343
mindset, through positive emotions
00:17:29.721 --> 00:17:30.651
Sara Murray: Okay, cool.
00:17:32.001 --> 00:17:36.951
So 10 s- sen- 10 negative thought
patterns, then positive thought is your
00:17:36.951 --> 00:17:39.111
sage, and then the middle is self-command.
00:17:39.121 --> 00:17:43.041
And so if you have awareness ab-
around your saboteurs, then you can,
00:17:43.051 --> 00:17:46.911
intercept them or break the pattern
or, or work around it with, with your
00:17:46.911 --> 00:17:50.331
support and the positive intelligence
framework, and then that's what helps
00:17:50.331 --> 00:17:53.451
us I like that word, self-command,
00:17:54.321 --> 00:17:56.821
Natalie Siston: Yes, and that's where
you, you know, you used the word
00:17:56.821 --> 00:18:00.351
mindset before, and I think a lot of
people would try to put that in there.
00:18:00.351 --> 00:18:05.221
But once again, m- we wanna g- we have,
we wanna have the action verb, right?
00:18:05.301 --> 00:18:06.321
It's like self-command.
00:18:06.331 --> 00:18:07.411
I am in action.
00:18:07.711 --> 00:18:08.771
I am in control.
00:18:08.791 --> 00:18:12.201
I am in charge of this, and
I can, I can do something.
00:18:12.201 --> 00:18:15.221
Because I think a lot of people
just think, "This is the way I am.
00:18:15.231 --> 00:18:16.491
This is the way I'm wired."
00:18:16.501 --> 00:18:17.291
And guess what?
00:18:17.301 --> 00:18:20.691
Our brains are very
malleable, very malleable.
00:18:20.721 --> 00:18:21.031
Neuroplasticity is for real
00:18:23.933 --> 00:18:24.343
Sara Murray: Okay.
00:18:24.403 --> 00:18:24.983
I love that.
00:18:24.993 --> 00:18:26.033
All right, let's get into it.
00:18:26.043 --> 00:18:27.623
So I did take the assessment.
00:18:27.683 --> 00:18:29.523
Natalie sent me the
assessment before we met.
00:18:29.543 --> 00:18:33.683
I didn't dive into any of it because
we wanted to make it live on the
00:18:33.683 --> 00:18:37.893
call, not, know, and so I, I read
what they were, and I gave her
00:18:37.893 --> 00:18:39.283
the numbers, and that's all I know
00:18:40.249 --> 00:18:40.749
Natalie Siston: Excellent.
00:18:40.759 --> 00:18:43.839
And I'll tell it, say to anybody
who's listening who wants their tea
00:18:43.879 --> 00:18:46.109
leaves read, please reach out to me.
00:18:46.139 --> 00:18:49.279
We can have a very similar experience
to what Sara and I are about to
00:18:49.279 --> 00:18:50.579
do, but even more de- in depth.
00:18:50.589 --> 00:18:53.779
We're only gonna go … We're gonna go,
like, an inch deep, and when I talk to
00:18:53.779 --> 00:18:56.329
people about this, we can go a mile deep.
00:18:56.669 --> 00:19:01.689
so Sara, your one thing I will note is
I am … There's, there's 10 saboteurs,
00:19:01.699 --> 00:19:05.039
and each and every one of us has a
common saboteur called the judge.
00:19:05.359 --> 00:19:08.569
This is not gonna show up in anyone's
results because ding, ding, ding,
00:19:08.569 --> 00:19:10.159
winner, winner, winner, we all have it.
00:19:10.539 --> 00:19:14.689
And the judge takes a different shape
or form depending on who you are and
00:19:14.689 --> 00:19:18.159
how you were raised and what kind of
potentially trauma you've gone through.
00:19:18.159 --> 00:19:21.869
And so what … We're not gonna unpack
your judge today, Sara, but what's
00:19:21.879 --> 00:19:25.909
important for everyone to know is
that y- when you have that voice that
00:19:25.909 --> 00:19:29.269
wakes you up in the night, and y- only
you know what that voice sounds like
00:19:29.269 --> 00:19:32.789
that wakes you up in the night or that
causes you to pause in the middle of
00:19:32.789 --> 00:19:35.589
the day, that keeps you playing small.
00:19:36.149 --> 00:19:39.129
Everyone knows kind of what their
f- their form of that voice is.
00:19:39.139 --> 00:19:44.469
It is then playing in concert with one or
more of these nine accomplice saboteurs.
00:19:44.859 --> 00:19:49.489
So Sara took the assessment, and,
because she's such a good student, and
00:19:49.489 --> 00:19:55.269
I'm not surprised, because she's a 10
out of 10 on hyper-achiever saboteur.
00:19:55.699 --> 00:19:58.669
Sara, you like to check boxes.
00:19:59.009 --> 00:20:00.809
You like to win the trophy.
00:20:01.129 --> 00:20:02.559
You like to get the sticker.
00:20:02.569 --> 00:20:04.369
Am I, am I right about that?
00:20:04.625 --> 00:20:08.065
Sara Murray: I mean, re- just kind of like
from the fr- first, summary, I was like,
00:20:08.085 --> 00:20:10.215
"Oh man, this is gonna be rough to hear."
00:20:10.245 --> 00:20:16.265
Very much a let's go, what's next, we
don't have time to cry, we don't don't
00:20:16.265 --> 00:20:18.475
celebrate any wins, like, onto the next.
00:20:18.495 --> 00:20:23.175
So it's very hyper-achiever with
like a little bit of a, you know,
00:20:23.185 --> 00:20:24.625
it's a, it's a blessing and a curse
00:20:25.145 --> 00:20:27.475
Natalie Siston: It's true, and I'll
tell you exactly why it's a blessing
00:20:27.475 --> 00:20:32.585
and a curse, because our saboteurs are
our greatest strengths taken too far.
00:20:33.065 --> 00:20:37.575
And so for you, you have been a
very, very successful salesperson,
00:20:37.575 --> 00:20:40.115
both in the corporate world and
now running your own business.
00:20:40.125 --> 00:20:43.225
And so you have to be in
achievement mode to do that, right?
00:20:43.225 --> 00:20:44.465
You have to be driven.
00:20:44.935 --> 00:20:46.525
You have to want to win.
00:20:46.875 --> 00:20:49.445
So you gotta have that
winning mindset to get there.
00:20:49.705 --> 00:20:53.205
And what everyone needs to know is
that, you know, we reach a tipping
00:20:53.205 --> 00:20:56.915
point of that achievement where it
becomes exactly what Sara just said.
00:20:56.915 --> 00:20:57.945
I'm gonna keep going.
00:20:57.955 --> 00:21:00.685
I'm not gonna pause, which
is gonna lead to burnout.
00:21:00.975 --> 00:21:03.945
I'm not gonna sometimes
thank people along the way.
00:21:03.945 --> 00:21:05.425
And I'm not accusing you of this, Sara.
00:21:05.425 --> 00:21:06.715
These are all generalities.
00:21:06.975 --> 00:21:10.275
or maybe I'm assuming that everyone
who had part in it knows how
00:21:10.275 --> 00:21:13.315
wonderful and awesome they are,
but I'm not stopping to say so.
00:21:13.765 --> 00:21:18.905
And really, at the end of the day,
we look at down in our closet of, of
00:21:18.905 --> 00:21:24.315
rusted trophies, and we have to ask
ourselves, like, "Was the trophy worth it?
00:21:24.965 --> 00:21:27.075
And what else might I have
changed along the way?
00:21:27.075 --> 00:21:28.355
Maybe I would pause more.
00:21:28.355 --> 00:21:31.295
Maybe that means I wouldn't
have gotten 20% of the deals.
00:21:31.675 --> 00:21:34.415
Maybe I'd have different form
of relationships happening."
00:21:34.655 --> 00:21:38.445
And once again, these are not meant
to make anyone feel bad or like
00:21:38.445 --> 00:21:39.845
I'm, something's wrong with me.
00:21:40.075 --> 00:21:44.485
This is really what Shirzad was after to
try to make it a lot easier for people
00:21:44.485 --> 00:21:47.605
to say, "How am I beating myself up?"
00:21:48.215 --> 00:21:52.215
And so for people to see this and
just realize, like, "Oh, that's not
00:21:52.215 --> 00:21:53.785
me hap- That's not me right now.
00:21:53.785 --> 00:21:55.115
That's my hyper-achiever."
00:21:55.575 --> 00:21:58.845
And so Sara, when you and I met,
now it's been a month ago, you
00:21:58.845 --> 00:22:01.635
know, you just mentioned how
long of days you have, right?
00:22:01.645 --> 00:22:04.735
It's like you'll get up, your Pacific
time, so you'll get up to meet the
00:22:04.735 --> 00:22:07.385
needs of your East Coast clients,
and then you'll stay up and burn
00:22:07.385 --> 00:22:12.305
the Pacific Coast, midnight oil, and
rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat.
00:22:12.315 --> 00:22:16.545
And so that to me is a classic sign
of someone who has hyper-achiever.
00:22:16.545 --> 00:22:20.675
And then coming in not too far
second for you is pleaser, which I
00:22:20.685 --> 00:22:25.115
think a lot of people, especially
women, can resonate with, where I
00:22:25.115 --> 00:22:27.115
just wanna make other people happy.
00:22:27.505 --> 00:22:30.725
I am gonna, I'm gonna help everyone
else before I'm gonna put that
00:22:30.725 --> 00:22:32.974
proverbial oxygen mask on myself.
00:22:33.405 --> 00:22:37.335
And so it's no surprise to me why you
probably tend to work those long hours,
00:22:37.385 --> 00:22:40.744
because you're like, "I wanna achieve, and
I wanna make everybody happy around it."
00:22:41.064 --> 00:22:43.884
And there is good intent
behind all of that.
00:22:43.894 --> 00:22:49.025
And so if you can just monitor yourself,
so you're, you're not pushing past
00:22:49.445 --> 00:22:53.635
the, the good intent part into negative
emotions, feeling frustrated and upset
00:22:53.635 --> 00:22:56.635
and exhausted, that's what this work does.
00:22:56.674 --> 00:23:00.505
And so we're not gonna cure somebody
in a 30-minute podcast, because there's
00:23:00.505 --> 00:23:06.685
actually a really thoughtful eight-week
program that helps you deprogram
00:23:06.685 --> 00:23:11.055
yourself, that helps you catch these
in real live moments in your real-life
00:23:11.085 --> 00:23:16.305
workday, and helps you then say,
"Ah, here's where it tends to come.
00:23:16.625 --> 00:23:17.865
Here's what I do about it.
00:23:18.235 --> 00:23:20.994
Here's how this is making
other things possible for me."
00:23:22.347 --> 00:23:22.937
Sara Murray: I like that.
00:23:22.937 --> 00:23:27.397
And I like that, you framed it as if
you're aware of the saboteur, then it's
00:23:27.397 --> 00:23:33.117
a- almost like this is not Sara waking
up at 5:00 AM and working till 9:00 PM.
00:23:33.137 --> 00:23:37.477
It's my high achiever saboteur who's
thinking I must do these things.
00:23:37.507 --> 00:23:39.107
And, and I see…
00:23:39.147 --> 00:23:42.827
I mean, I'm, I've been working on that,
Natalie, this year of I joined a gym
00:23:42.827 --> 00:23:48.177
with personal training sessions, so I, I
have noticed that I'm not very motivated
00:23:48.177 --> 00:23:52.367
for myself in a lot of ways, but I
motivate myself through other people.
00:23:52.377 --> 00:23:57.467
So I don't wanna let down my clients,
which means I'll, I'll stay up late
00:23:57.477 --> 00:23:59.127
to get them something they asked for.
00:24:00.067 --> 00:24:02.807
I don't wanna let down the personal
trainer, which means I have to pay the
00:24:02.817 --> 00:24:05.877
time slot so I don't miss out because
if I miss my window, then they could
00:24:05.877 --> 00:24:07.127
have made money from someone else.
00:24:07.127 --> 00:24:07.757
Like, I…
00:24:07.827 --> 00:24:11.227
So that's not a bad thing, but I am
trying to kind of work through how
00:24:11.227 --> 00:24:14.097
can I make that work for me versus
against me, and it's kinda nice
00:24:14.097 --> 00:24:16.997
you're giving us the language of,
"Oh, it's the judge that's doing that.
00:24:17.027 --> 00:24:18.127
It's the high achiever.
00:24:18.127 --> 00:24:19.347
It's the pleaser."
00:24:19.467 --> 00:24:21.487
So what are the other, we got three.
00:24:21.487 --> 00:24:22.697
What are the other seven?
00:24:23.545 --> 00:24:24.135
Natalie Siston: All right.
00:24:24.165 --> 00:24:27.705
I'm just gonna just tick down the list
real fast, that way everyone who's
00:24:27.705 --> 00:24:30.025
listening can, can identify themselves.
00:24:30.025 --> 00:24:33.585
And so Sara, I feel like you're seeing
yourself in those top two pretty clearly.
00:24:33.585 --> 00:24:34.245
Am I correct?
00:24:34.505 --> 00:24:37.875
And I like to tell everybody that when
you actually take the assessment and look
00:24:37.875 --> 00:24:41.725
at the report like you did, it should
be like looking in a fun house mirror.
00:24:41.995 --> 00:24:43.955
You're like, "Oh, that's
me, but distorted.
00:24:43.955 --> 00:24:45.655
And I don't know if I wanna
keep looking that way.
00:24:45.665 --> 00:24:49.145
And once again, everything's a choice,
and do I wanna choose to be different?"
00:24:49.145 --> 00:24:52.775
So I'm gonna go in your order of
strength, so I h- if you're okay with me
00:24:52.775 --> 00:24:54.435
disclosing this to all your listeners.
00:24:54.695 --> 00:24:57.855
All right, everybody, this is
Sara and, and a saboteur profile.
00:24:58.175 --> 00:25:01.905
So next you have your controller
saboteur, and this is, this
00:25:01.905 --> 00:25:03.725
is the take charge saboteur.
00:25:03.725 --> 00:25:07.995
And I get the most pushback from
people who score high on controller
00:25:07.995 --> 00:25:12.615
because they say to me, "But Natalie,
but Natalie, if I didn't take
00:25:12.645 --> 00:25:14.935
charge, nothing would get done."
00:25:15.495 --> 00:25:19.745
And that's when I tell them taking
initiative is great, leadership is
00:25:19.765 --> 00:25:23.425
great, but controller runs on fear.
00:25:23.995 --> 00:25:26.255
It runs on fear that
I'm not gonna look good.
00:25:26.265 --> 00:25:28.685
It runs on fear that my
team's not going to deliver.
00:25:28.685 --> 00:25:33.855
So the controller operates on push,
and there's nothing that leads to
00:25:33.855 --> 00:25:35.735
greater disconnection than fear.
00:25:36.165 --> 00:25:40.195
And so that is a really disruptive
saboteur, especially if you're
00:25:40.195 --> 00:25:41.715
struggling in relationships.
00:25:42.105 --> 00:25:43.715
You gotta look at how much you're pushing.
00:25:44.575 --> 00:25:47.905
Then we have the restless
saboteur, and this is go, go, go,
00:25:47.905 --> 00:25:50.715
do, do, do, never stop moving.
00:25:51.075 --> 00:25:54.485
And for this one, I think each of
us has some of this today, Sara,
00:25:54.485 --> 00:25:57.385
just because of the world we're
living in and how fast things are.
00:25:57.805 --> 00:26:00.355
But people tend to have the
wrestle saboteur because of
00:26:00.355 --> 00:26:02.365
FOMO, the fear of missing out.
00:26:02.795 --> 00:26:06.015
But more than anything, and this is
really what I want everyone to lean in.
00:26:06.145 --> 00:26:09.425
Pause if you're in the middle of something
and really hear me when I say this.
00:26:09.845 --> 00:26:15.635
The restless will stay in motion so
that it does, does not have to feel
00:26:15.635 --> 00:26:19.819
emotion Like, "Ooh, I don't wanna feel
that way, so I'm just gonna keep going.
00:26:19.829 --> 00:26:22.699
Ooh, I don't wanna … Ooh, I
don't wanna be disappointed.
00:26:22.699 --> 00:26:23.699
I'm gonna keep going."
00:26:23.709 --> 00:26:27.339
And so this is a really, for me,
important one for people to know,
00:26:27.339 --> 00:26:28.789
regardless of how you score.
00:26:29.839 --> 00:26:31.759
Then we have avoider saboteur.
00:26:31.759 --> 00:26:35.269
So avoider would just rather not,
would rather not start the task,
00:26:35.269 --> 00:26:36.949
rather not have the conversation.
00:26:36.959 --> 00:26:38.319
Some people are task avoidant.
00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:40.399
Some people are, relationship avoidant.
00:26:41.449 --> 00:26:44.549
And what we know about the
saboteurs is they deliver exactly
00:26:44.549 --> 00:26:46.199
the opposite as the, they promise.
00:26:46.499 --> 00:26:50.009
The avoider tends to avoid because they
want everything to remain pleasant and,
00:26:50.009 --> 00:26:54.209
and friendly and calm, which you and I
both know the longer we put something
00:26:54.209 --> 00:26:56.699
off, the more stress that actually builds.
00:26:57.299 --> 00:26:58.549
Yeah, becomes huge.
00:26:58.629 --> 00:26:58.909
All right,
00:26:59.111 --> 00:26:59.341
Sara Murray: yeah
00:26:59.369 --> 00:27:00.139
Natalie Siston: three more to go.
00:27:00.589 --> 00:27:02.209
Then we have victim saboteur.
00:27:02.209 --> 00:27:06.339
This tends to be a really quiet saboteur
for many people, and it can surprise them.
00:27:06.649 --> 00:27:10.719
this is where I feel love by
being rescued by other people.
00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:15.429
And for many of us, you know,
there's th-this … For most
00:27:15.429 --> 00:27:18.429
high-charging leaders, I don't
see a high score on this one.
00:27:18.429 --> 00:27:23.009
But I tell everyone, there's gonna be that
day that you wake up and all you wanna do
00:27:23.009 --> 00:27:27.609
is lay on the couch, binge Netflix, and
eat chips, and hope that somebody else can
00:27:27.609 --> 00:27:31.349
just do the work for you today, that they
can take care of everything for you today.
00:27:31.389 --> 00:27:34.829
That to me is what victim feels like
kind of in our mod-modern world.
00:27:35.249 --> 00:27:39.229
And then when someone does come
and ask you, "Sara, are you okay?"
00:27:39.419 --> 00:27:42.959
you feel seen, and you feel like, "Wow,
people actually do care about me."
00:27:43.479 --> 00:27:44.999
and so I imagine this is gonna grow.
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:48.769
As social isolation starts to grow, I
think more people will feel this victim,
00:27:48.839 --> 00:27:51.659
and it's a really deep, deep saboteur.
00:27:51.659 --> 00:27:54.069
Our last two are both
along this hyper realm.
00:27:54.069 --> 00:27:57.599
So for you, you got hyper-vigilant
as your second to bottom.
00:27:57.599 --> 00:28:01.429
This is … When people have a high
hyper-vigilant, what I like to say is
00:28:01.429 --> 00:28:03.929
for normal people, they have a plan A.
00:28:04.479 --> 00:28:06.869
Maybe for a planner, they
have a plan A and a B.
00:28:07.159 --> 00:28:10.009
For someone who has hyper-vigilant,
they have A, B, C, D, E, F, G, all the
00:28:10.009 --> 00:28:13.769
way to Z, and they'll still wake up in
the night and be like, "Oh my gosh, I
00:28:13.769 --> 00:28:15.749
forgot about plan double A and double B."
00:28:16.099 --> 00:28:18.789
And so this is just always waiting
for the other shoe to drop.
00:28:18.789 --> 00:28:20.389
It's just constant frustration.
00:28:20.389 --> 00:28:21.779
Anxiety comes from that.
00:28:21.789 --> 00:28:23.659
What else might be coming next?
00:28:24.409 --> 00:28:29.489
And then your lowest scoring, saboteur
was the hyper-rational, which would
00:28:29.629 --> 00:28:34.469
love to live in a black, white,
right, wrong world, and it's hard
00:28:34.469 --> 00:28:36.289
because we live in a very gray space.
00:28:36.299 --> 00:28:39.769
So this is your lowest scoring,
meaning you're okay living in the gray.
00:28:40.159 --> 00:28:44.919
But for people who have a high
hyper-rational, they just don't understand
00:28:44.929 --> 00:28:48.209
why people can't see their point because
they've done the work, they know the
00:28:48.209 --> 00:28:52.348
data, they know they're right, and
it means they're also very unlikely
00:28:52.369 --> 00:28:56.719
to listen to other people's point of
view and be open to that gray space.
00:28:57.397 --> 00:29:00.147
Sara Murray: You know, it's so
funny, Natalie, most of my caree-
00:29:00.147 --> 00:29:02.457
you know, I've been, I've been
in the construction industry.
00:29:02.467 --> 00:29:03.837
I've worked with a lot of engineers.
00:29:03.847 --> 00:29:07.697
I've worked with a lot of very smart
people who probably have hyper-rational
00:29:07.697 --> 00:29:09.337
as, like, their biggest saboteur.
00:29:09.587 --> 00:29:13.157
And so trying to work with our two
different styles, it was really
00:29:13.157 --> 00:29:18.407
interesting because we both had to
compromise to work together, and both
00:29:18.477 --> 00:29:20.687
people were smart in different ways.
00:29:20.707 --> 00:29:25.487
And I think once we start to, like,
recognize that in one another, then
00:29:25.487 --> 00:29:29.267
the camaraderie and the collaboration
and, the output became so much better.
00:29:29.297 --> 00:29:34.297
But definitely, numbers,
organization, that's just not my vibe.
00:29:35.187 --> 00:29:38.197
Natalie Siston: Well, your bot- your
bottom three are all this sort of
00:29:38.247 --> 00:29:40.557
avoidant, what I would call slower moving.
00:29:40.567 --> 00:29:43.377
It's the, you know, I'm gonna,
I'm gonna kind of hunker down.
00:29:43.377 --> 00:29:46.047
I'm gonna be really thinking
about all plan A through Z.
00:29:46.367 --> 00:29:48.027
I'm gonna get all the data right.
00:29:48.377 --> 00:29:49.697
You know, those are your lowest.
00:29:49.697 --> 00:29:52.447
And so to ha- for you to have
hyper-achiever, pleaser, controller
00:29:52.447 --> 00:29:56.707
as your top three, remember, saboteurs
are our greatest strengths taken
00:29:56.707 --> 00:30:01.037
too far, so I could totally see
you in a room full of engineers.
00:30:01.037 --> 00:30:02.167
And you are exactly right.
00:30:02.167 --> 00:30:05.187
I am actually, I'm married to an
engineer, and I've, I've presented
00:30:05.187 --> 00:30:09.357
to a lot of technical people over the
last six years, and hyper-rational
00:30:09.357 --> 00:30:10.627
is typically off the charts.
00:30:11.037 --> 00:30:14.687
And if you all can recognize the
strength piece of this, there is a really
00:30:14.687 --> 00:30:18.887
great kind of map to be made of like,
"Yeah, we know Sara's gonna push us.
00:30:18.977 --> 00:30:21.837
She's gonna be like, 'Hey, we need to
get this stuff done because we have
00:30:21.837 --> 00:30:24.967
a deadline,' or, 'We, we need to meet
timeline,' whatever the case might be."
00:30:24.967 --> 00:30:28.267
But that's not coming from
a, a, a negative place.
00:30:28.267 --> 00:30:30.497
That's coming from a this
is what's real place.
00:30:30.937 --> 00:30:33.967
And then likewise, you know, they
might be able to get your head out
00:30:33.967 --> 00:30:36.657
of the clouds sometimes just to be
like, "Sara, do you realize some
00:30:36.657 --> 00:30:40.117
of the, the realities that we're
facing in this project and with these
00:30:40.117 --> 00:30:42.367
deadlines and with these deliverables?"
00:30:43.015 --> 00:30:44.355
Sara Murray: Yeah, that
makes a lot of sense.
00:30:44.365 --> 00:30:46.975
I think, you know, some of my
greatest strengths are the ability
00:30:46.975 --> 00:30:48.305
to take action and execute.
00:30:48.325 --> 00:30:50.885
I think that's one of the big
differentiators in successful
00:30:50.885 --> 00:30:54.555
people is people who can execute,
just have ideas and make the
00:30:54.555 --> 00:30:56.345
plan, but, deliver on the plan.
00:30:56.635 --> 00:31:00.825
But I'm seeing some of the stuff like the
controller, you know, you- you're at the
00:31:00.825 --> 00:31:03.965
deli, and they're just so disorganized,
and the person calling out the names
00:31:03.965 --> 00:31:05.225
isn't calling them out loud enough.
00:31:05.235 --> 00:31:08.645
It's like, let me just get back there
and put on some gloves and start helping.
00:31:08.695 --> 00:31:11.035
I really have to, learn to take it easy.
00:31:11.965 --> 00:31:14.785
So it's, it's a, yeah, blessing
and a curse, but I definitely
00:31:14.785 --> 00:31:19.325
appreciate knowing them makes you
able to, work on your mental fitness,
00:31:19.325 --> 00:31:20.865
you know, and, and flex to that
00:31:21.357 --> 00:31:23.617
Natalie Siston: Yeah, so the next time
you're in the deli line wanting to hop
00:31:23.617 --> 00:31:27.727
behind the counter and slice meat, I
think that you just need to just pause
00:31:28.227 --> 00:31:30.097
and say, "Yeah, that's my controller.
00:31:30.097 --> 00:31:31.367
That's my pleaser.
00:31:31.367 --> 00:31:32.097
I wanna help.
00:31:32.097 --> 00:31:32.397
I want…
00:31:32.427 --> 00:31:33.587
These people are hungry.
00:31:33.617 --> 00:31:34.377
They need to eat.
00:31:34.377 --> 00:31:34.837
We need to move."
00:31:35.087 --> 00:31:35.477
You know?
00:31:35.937 --> 00:31:36.117
Sara Murray: You're
00:31:36.277 --> 00:31:36.707
Natalie Siston: so it-
00:31:36.797 --> 00:31:38.167
Sara Murray: you're not
talking loud enough.
00:31:38.277 --> 00:31:38.487
Natalie Siston: Right.
00:31:38.667 --> 00:31:39.007
Right.
00:31:39.117 --> 00:31:39.547
Sara Murray: there and-
00:31:39.627 --> 00:31:41.887
Natalie Siston: And so, so you can
just be like, "All right, controller,
00:31:41.887 --> 00:31:43.357
you can just take a backseat.
00:31:43.627 --> 00:31:44.847
N- we're gonna be fine.
00:31:44.857 --> 00:31:46.927
We're all gonna walk away
here with what we need.
00:31:46.937 --> 00:31:47.987
It's all good."
00:31:47.997 --> 00:31:52.077
And pr- that's when you get to practice
self-command, which is really just
00:31:52.077 --> 00:31:57.057
about being in your body and detaching
from the chatter in your mind.
00:31:57.067 --> 00:31:59.667
And so people can do this
in any number of ways.
00:31:59.677 --> 00:32:04.347
I like to say the shortest path to
a clear mind is three deep breaths.
00:32:04.717 --> 00:32:06.447
See, we have this thing with three, Sara.
00:32:06.467 --> 00:32:07.107
It's just
00:32:07.199 --> 00:32:07.949
Sara Murray: Mm-hmm.
00:32:07.987 --> 00:32:08.297
Natalie Siston: breaths.
00:32:08.567 --> 00:32:12.887
So the next time you're in that deli line
and you fi- find yourself s- spinning,
00:32:12.887 --> 00:32:16.697
just three deep breaths, nothing else.
00:32:16.747 --> 00:32:18.027
Don't be looking at your phone.
00:32:18.037 --> 00:32:21.027
Don't be, you know, looking
at the, how slow things are.
00:32:21.037 --> 00:32:24.837
It's just three deep breaths,
and then resume as normal.
00:32:24.897 --> 00:32:26.347
But it's amazing.
00:32:26.347 --> 00:32:29.837
Like, human physiology is pretty
amazing, and there's so much research
00:32:29.867 --> 00:32:34.957
on different breathing patterns and
different ways to, get our somatic
00:32:34.967 --> 00:32:39.837
system kind of back in check so we're
not just frying, frying the neural
00:32:39.837 --> 00:32:41.907
pathways to our saboteurs all day long.
00:32:43.615 --> 00:32:46.705
Sara Murray: Let me ask you this, 'cause
you just give us one tool, just the three
00:32:46.705 --> 00:32:50.795
deep breaths is, you know, straightforward
and easy, and I think we all know that on
00:32:50.795 --> 00:32:53.105
some level, but we don't actually do it.
00:32:53.425 --> 00:32:57.365
And, and so I, I wanna take the challenge,
and I would encourage our listeners to
00:32:57.365 --> 00:33:02.145
take the challenge to, if something's
riling you up, like a deli line or I
00:33:02.145 --> 00:33:06.525
went to pickleball this Saturday, and
I just got, so mad about something.
00:33:06.525 --> 00:33:10.005
I'm And I'm not normally a competitive
person, but I'm like, "Sara, chill out."
00:33:10.225 --> 00:33:11.705
So it's like take three deep breaths.
00:33:12.025 --> 00:33:12.955
But, what other tools?
00:33:12.955 --> 00:33:17.075
Like, let's say someone has a meeting in
10 minutes, and their, you know, their
00:33:17.075 --> 00:33:21.785
controller is coming out because they
don't feel ready and their teammates
00:33:21.815 --> 00:33:22.985
don't, didn't, don't feel ready.
00:33:23.005 --> 00:33:24.535
Maybe they didn't prep
or they didn't have time.
00:33:24.585 --> 00:33:29.555
what, like, what's something
that people can do right then?
00:33:29.565 --> 00:33:31.665
what are some other things we
can do to sort of simmer down?
00:33:31.821 --> 00:33:32.241
Natalie Siston: Sure.
00:33:32.741 --> 00:33:36.121
And this is the beautiful part about
this type of mental fitness work is
00:33:36.131 --> 00:33:40.711
you can actually do these self-command
rituals, do these self-command
00:33:40.721 --> 00:33:45.501
exercises in the middle of the heated
moment, in the middle of the stress.
00:33:45.501 --> 00:33:48.861
So I'm not suggesting you walk into
that meeting without priming yourself
00:33:48.871 --> 00:33:53.081
first, but I am suggesting that
you can be in the middle of this
00:33:53.081 --> 00:33:57.191
really, really stressful moment, and
you can be focused on your breath.
00:33:57.621 --> 00:34:02.021
And so Sara, really what I like to think
about is working kind of up your body.
00:34:02.041 --> 00:34:05.331
And if you have ti- if you know you're
headed into a stressful meeting,
00:34:05.361 --> 00:34:10.271
please, please do yourself a favor, give
yourself at least five minutes before
00:34:10.271 --> 00:34:14.181
you're gonna go into that meeting, and
maybe you are headed to the restroom.
00:34:14.191 --> 00:34:16.821
Maybe if you're working from home,
you go to a different room that's
00:34:16.831 --> 00:34:18.601
not in front of your workstation.
00:34:19.031 --> 00:34:22.081
And you, you feel your feet on the floor.
00:34:22.081 --> 00:34:24.371
So I'm just gonna walk you through,
Sara, what I would do in that moment.
00:34:24.371 --> 00:34:27.271
I would feel myself on, feel, I
would feel my feet on the floor.
00:34:27.991 --> 00:34:31.841
I would feel every single
muscle going up my leg.
00:34:32.601 --> 00:34:37.181
I would keep my eyes open and just
focus on something in front of me for
00:34:37.181 --> 00:34:40.841
just a few seconds and notice something
about it I haven't noticed before.
00:34:41.651 --> 00:34:46.301
And then I'd probably close my eyes and
be taking those deep breaths, and I'd
00:34:46.301 --> 00:34:48.311
just be listening to my surroundings.
00:34:49.271 --> 00:34:53.721
And while I'm listening, I finally
settle on listening to my own
00:34:53.721 --> 00:34:58.061
breathing, which will, will lead
to greater settled feelings.
00:34:58.061 --> 00:35:01.411
And so I say take up to
five minutes to do this.
00:35:01.741 --> 00:35:04.801
I think we're so used to when we
have those five minutes, we hop on
00:35:04.801 --> 00:35:08.111
our phone, we check social media,
we clear our messages, whatever.
00:35:08.111 --> 00:35:11.921
It's like just if we could just
stop that and go through a day
00:35:11.921 --> 00:35:15.051
where we're using those five minutes
to really get ourselves centered.
00:35:15.451 --> 00:35:18.971
That could be going and making yourself
a cup of coffee or tea and just really
00:35:18.981 --> 00:35:22.891
feeling that, that warmth on your
hands, really enjoying it as you're
00:35:22.901 --> 00:35:26.311
drinking it, not sipping it while
you're, while you have your phone and
00:35:26.311 --> 00:35:27.701
you're scrolling in the other hand.
00:35:27.701 --> 00:35:32.031
And so I think it's really all about
reprogramming ourselves to the pause.
00:35:32.981 --> 00:35:38.461
And so if everyone can think about just
pause being the newest tool in their
00:35:38.471 --> 00:35:43.250
toolkit that's gonna help them show
up their best in the next conversation
00:35:43.251 --> 00:35:47.520
or meeting, please take the challenge,
even if it's just three deep breaths,
00:35:47.580 --> 00:35:49.250
which take about 10 seconds, Sara.
00:35:49.701 --> 00:35:52.710
And I ha- I often, I mean, I've,
I've been pushed back by every type
00:35:52.711 --> 00:35:55.331
of leader and high-achieving person.
00:35:55.360 --> 00:35:57.141
"I don't have time to do
any of this, Natalie."
00:35:57.141 --> 00:35:59.151
I'm like, "You have time
to take three deep breaths.
00:35:59.690 --> 00:36:00.201
You do."
00:36:00.220 --> 00:36:02.231
And do you go to the ba- it's,
and it's like, do you go to the
00:36:02.231 --> 00:36:03.241
bathroom throughout the day?
00:36:03.241 --> 00:36:05.921
Like, how about you feel the
warmth of the water on your
00:36:05.921 --> 00:36:07.201
hands when you're washing them?
00:36:07.211 --> 00:36:09.701
We can work this into our daily routine.
00:36:09.701 --> 00:36:10.521
So it's really…
00:36:10.921 --> 00:36:14.290
So it, this is where it
goes into mindfulness, Sara.
00:36:14.291 --> 00:36:18.471
And I think a lot of people also
construe mental fitness with mindfulness,
00:36:18.491 --> 00:36:20.691
which is also another way of being.
00:36:20.701 --> 00:36:22.120
Am I being mindful?
00:36:22.491 --> 00:36:25.291
And so as you grow your mental
fitness, you're going to find
00:36:25.291 --> 00:36:27.611
yourself being more mindful
00:36:28.833 --> 00:36:33.043
Sara Murray: so I w- there's a couple
things I wanna on with what you just said.
00:36:33.043 --> 00:36:38.203
So first, the whole, you know, five
minutes before and, having that…
00:36:38.243 --> 00:36:41.653
I, I think what I, what I heard from
it and what I like about it is that
00:36:41.663 --> 00:36:45.543
five minutes is productive time because
you're strengthening your self-command.
00:36:45.993 --> 00:36:48.833
And so somet- you know, I have
a level two, I have level one
00:36:48.843 --> 00:36:49.903
and level two sales training.
00:36:49.913 --> 00:36:53.473
In the level two sales training, we
go deeper into negotiation tactics,
00:36:53.703 --> 00:36:57.063
and some of them are, plant your feet
on the ground, like, feel grounded.
00:36:57.073 --> 00:36:59.673
Because some of it also,
physically changes your body too.
00:36:59.673 --> 00:37:02.033
So when you're negotiating,
you wanna be calm.
00:37:02.033 --> 00:37:04.583
You don't wanna be hyper girl
when you're trying to close a deal
00:37:04.583 --> 00:37:05.733
You know, you wanna be calm.
00:37:05.973 --> 00:37:07.793
You wanna be in command of that room.
00:37:07.793 --> 00:37:11.653
So if that extra five minutes helps
you be in command, that that's
00:37:11.663 --> 00:37:15.193
brilliant, and I think, I think we
should all, all listeners, try to end
00:37:15.193 --> 00:37:18.343
our meetings a little bit earlier to
give people a little buffer between
00:37:18.423 --> 00:37:21.653
meetings because I think that's where,
the urgency, the lack of time…
00:37:21.673 --> 00:37:24.363
And I like your rebuttal, we have
time to do three deep dra- breaths.
00:37:24.623 --> 00:37:28.163
but I really like that it's
helping, it's helping frame it in
00:37:28.163 --> 00:37:30.343
a way where it is productive time.
00:37:30.373 --> 00:37:34.033
And if you can center yourself and if
you can fight the negative thoughts
00:37:34.033 --> 00:37:37.373
in your head, that of course is
gonna be productive time, so I really
00:37:37.373 --> 00:37:38.902
appreciate you walking us through that.
00:37:40.382 --> 00:37:41.623
Let me ask you this too.
00:37:41.623 --> 00:37:47.533
So in your TEDx talk, you talk a
l- you talk about, your, you plant
00:37:47.533 --> 00:37:49.893
your seed and then it blooms.
00:37:51.132 --> 00:37:54.513
So in these examples that we're saying,
you know, all right, I'm going into this
00:37:54.553 --> 00:37:59.582
challenging meeting, I'm going into this
stressful meeting, give us some, thought
00:37:59.632 --> 00:38:03.903
language that we could do on top of the
physiology breakdown you just gave us?
00:38:04.985 --> 00:38:07.155
Natalie Siston: Yes, and this is
actually where using the tool of
00:38:07.155 --> 00:38:12.375
Sage comes in, Sara, because the,
the whole idea of Sage is that every
00:38:12.375 --> 00:38:16.275
challenge, every situation can be
converted into a gift or opportunity.
00:38:16.275 --> 00:38:19.455
And so that's, that's everyone's
first tool is just to say…
00:38:19.805 --> 00:38:22.415
And kinda like you said, when you
journal, when you lose the deal,
00:38:22.415 --> 00:38:24.215
you're actually doing Sage perspective.
00:38:24.215 --> 00:38:26.275
You're saying, "What's the gift
that's coming out of this?"
00:38:26.295 --> 00:38:29.165
So that was a perfect
example of how that works.
00:38:29.195 --> 00:38:33.065
And I'm, I won't go into all five,
but there are five Sage Powers, and
00:38:33.065 --> 00:38:37.005
each Sage Power comes with either
a powerful question or a very short
00:38:37.035 --> 00:38:41.404
activity that you can do to help you,
help you shift your frame of mind.
00:38:41.405 --> 00:38:45.805
So depending on the circumstance, for
example, someone who is in that avoidance
00:38:45.815 --> 00:38:50.644
state, someone who is finding themselves
pausing, not for PQ and not for, like,
00:38:50.674 --> 00:38:55.665
self-command, but for avoidance, they
might wanna choose Sage Power Activate,
00:38:55.675 --> 00:39:00.675
which is, how can I be in the most
clear, calm-headed, laser-focused way
00:39:00.695 --> 00:39:02.425
moving into this next conversation?
00:39:02.425 --> 00:39:04.445
What distractions do I need to avoid?
00:39:04.685 --> 00:39:07.425
How are my saboteurs going
to try to mess with me today?
00:39:07.425 --> 00:39:09.305
We call that preempting the saboteur.
00:39:09.694 --> 00:39:14.375
And so it's really about saying,
"Okay, I recognize where my
00:39:14.375 --> 00:39:15.714
saboteur might get in the way.
00:39:15.735 --> 00:39:20.164
I know how to calm myself down,"
whether it's preemptively before
00:39:20.165 --> 00:39:22.865
a meeting or during the situation.
00:39:22.865 --> 00:39:24.604
'Cause I, I like to use traffic too a lot.
00:39:24.605 --> 00:39:27.275
Like, if you're stuck in traffic,
you know, y- just feel that
00:39:27.275 --> 00:39:28.704
steering wheel under your hands.
00:39:28.705 --> 00:39:33.365
Just listen to what's actually playing on
the radio versus being mad about traffic.
00:39:33.365 --> 00:39:34.385
And you live in LA.
00:39:34.395 --> 00:39:36.344
You know a thing or two about traffic.
00:39:36.383 --> 00:39:36.673
Sara Murray: Mm-hmm.
00:39:36.845 --> 00:39:39.494
Natalie Siston: but, but every
single Sage Power has a simple,
00:39:39.495 --> 00:39:43.574
know, question or exercise that I
tell people after they experience a
00:39:43.574 --> 00:39:48.374
workshop with me is, print out these
five Sage Powers and the questions,
00:39:48.385 --> 00:39:50.394
because they can be your biggest tool.
00:39:50.394 --> 00:39:53.004
You could be thinking you're
really frustrated and be like,
00:39:53.025 --> 00:39:56.365
"Oh, we need actually to be
in curiosity in this moment."
00:39:56.365 --> 00:39:56.454
Roop.
00:39:56.674 --> 00:40:01.645
You can look down at your Sage Power,
explore, and read a curiosity question.
00:40:02.004 --> 00:40:03.774
Maybe you need to be kinder to yourself.
00:40:03.775 --> 00:40:06.454
That's really what Sage
Power Empathize is all about.
00:40:07.214 --> 00:40:09.985
And then there's two more that I'll
just have to leave everybody as,
00:40:09.985 --> 00:40:12.174
like, little Easter eggs, you know?
00:40:12.234 --> 00:40:14.504
We can talk about them when I
read their tea leaves to them.
00:40:14.595 --> 00:40:15.485
Sara Murray: Okay, very good.
00:40:15.515 --> 00:40:18.075
That's such a generous
offer to, of you too.
00:40:18.085 --> 00:40:18.935
That's so kind.
00:40:19.125 --> 00:40:20.645
And I think too, what I, what…
00:40:20.665 --> 00:40:25.185
You had said something else that really
resonated on, the power of pause, and
00:40:25.265 --> 00:40:30.325
I think that's one thing I see in a lot
of my work is people just react before
00:40:30.325 --> 00:40:32.465
giving themselves time to respond too.
00:40:32.465 --> 00:40:36.495
And so I like the pause, and I like
the, you know, the, the sage powers
00:40:36.495 --> 00:40:39.765
of reframing that really helpful.
00:40:39.765 --> 00:40:42.155
And I think, too, going into
the meeting, if you know you're
00:40:42.155 --> 00:40:45.625
gonna sabotage yourself, like,
it's such a great word for it.
00:40:45.795 --> 00:40:48.654
I will tell you one thing I'm very
guilty of is I'll get on networking
00:40:48.654 --> 00:40:53.595
calls with people, and then I leave
with, seven action items of work that
00:40:53.595 --> 00:40:58.184
I added to my own desk to do this thing
for, a stranger sometimes, you know?
00:40:58.184 --> 00:41:00.854
And it's one of those things
where that brings me value.
00:41:00.854 --> 00:41:04.404
It's a big part of, my,
you know, just persona.
00:41:04.834 --> 00:41:09.884
But at the same time, it's if I say yes to
this p- person I don't know, and I'm going
00:41:09.884 --> 00:41:13.904
out of my way to help them, is that the
best use of my time right now, you know?
00:41:13.904 --> 00:41:17.314
And so it's a little bit of a balancing
act, but I think being aware of that
00:41:17.344 --> 00:41:22.234
is really gonna help me, and of course,
all of our listeners realize what
00:41:22.234 --> 00:41:23.744
we have in these different tools.
00:41:23.814 --> 00:41:27.254
So would you mind reading the
10 saboteurs one more time?
00:41:27.514 --> 00:41:30.144
And then I wanna wrap up talking
about your TEDx talk again.
00:41:30.634 --> 00:41:31.434
Natalie Siston: Absolutely.
00:41:31.554 --> 00:41:33.594
So I'm gonna issue myself a challenge.
00:41:33.594 --> 00:41:35.974
I'm gonna go through the
saboteurs in alphabetical order
00:41:36.304 --> 00:41:37.754
s- for everyone to keep track.
00:41:37.754 --> 00:41:42.674
So we've got avoider, controller,
hyper-achiever, hyper-rational,
00:41:42.734 --> 00:41:47.864
hyper-vigilant, pleaser,
restless, stickler, victim.
00:41:49.254 --> 00:41:49.864
Avoider.
00:41:49.904 --> 00:41:50.754
I forgot avoider.
00:41:50.774 --> 00:41:51.674
That's the first one.
00:41:52.594 --> 00:41:53.204
Did I start?
00:41:54.404 --> 00:41:54.544
Ugh,
00:41:54.610 --> 00:41:55.310
Sara Murray: you got it all.
00:41:55.564 --> 00:41:56.364
Natalie Siston: I got 'em all.
00:41:56.424 --> 00:41:56.854
Yeah.
00:41:57.594 --> 00:41:57.894
Yeah
00:41:58.070 --> 00:41:58.410
Sara Murray: Okay.
00:41:58.610 --> 00:42:00.710
Well, thank you so much for that.
00:42:00.720 --> 00:42:04.370
I am excited to read mine in a little bit
more detail, but it was, it was pretty
00:42:04.370 --> 00:42:06.490
eye-opening and a little, like, humbling.
00:42:06.730 --> 00:42:09.530
but thanks for, for going through that,
and thanks for giving the assessment.
00:42:09.770 --> 00:42:12.580
If someone's listening to our TEDx
talk, I'll link it in the show notes of
00:42:12.580 --> 00:42:16.390
course, but what's If there's one thing
that a viewer would take from it, what
00:42:16.390 --> 00:42:18.100
would you want that one thing to be?
00:42:18.608 --> 00:42:19.218
Natalie Siston: Hmm.
00:42:19.448 --> 00:42:23.398
Honestly, I just want the person to
watching that TED- who's watching that
00:42:23.398 --> 00:42:26.938
TEDx to laugh, to enjoy themselves.
00:42:26.988 --> 00:42:32.698
I was surprised at how much
everyone laughed in my talk.
00:42:32.698 --> 00:42:34.218
And, and it wasn't a stand-up routine.
00:42:34.218 --> 00:42:35.288
It wasn't meant to be.
00:42:35.308 --> 00:42:38.688
And I think what that reminded
me of, Sara, is just everyone's
00:42:38.688 --> 00:42:40.578
looking for that moment of levity.
00:42:40.988 --> 00:42:45.148
Everyone's looking for that moment
of whimsy, and I think that's what I
00:42:45.148 --> 00:42:49.888
delivered, and I hope that's what everyone
experiences, is just having that feeling
00:42:50.248 --> 00:42:55.358
coming out of the talk of, wow, there's,
there's another way to think about, how I
00:42:55.358 --> 00:42:57.498
am planting those seeds on a daily basis.
00:42:58.514 --> 00:42:59.004
Sara Murray: I love that.
00:42:59.094 --> 00:43:01.664
Levity, whimsy, humor.
00:43:01.874 --> 00:43:02.734
I agree with you.
00:43:02.734 --> 00:43:06.014
I think that world is in desperate
need of it right now, and we're
00:43:06.014 --> 00:43:08.794
lucky to have people like you
in our lives who can add that.
00:43:09.054 --> 00:43:11.934
I, watching the TED Talk, I
am not surprised that you're a
00:43:11.944 --> 00:43:14.474
global, you know, kickass speaker.
00:43:14.474 --> 00:43:16.194
you were just so eloquent in it.
00:43:16.404 --> 00:43:18.224
everyone go watch Natalie's TEDx talk.
00:43:18.234 --> 00:43:20.864
And if people wanna buy your book, if
they wanna connect with you on LinkedIn,
00:43:20.864 --> 00:43:24.964
if they wanna get their tea reads, tea
leaves read, how can they find you?
00:43:25.474 --> 00:43:27.674
Natalie Siston: I'm very easy
to find because I'm the only
00:43:27.674 --> 00:43:30.404
Natalie Siston, S-I-S-T-O-N.
00:43:30.404 --> 00:43:34.224
That's where you'll find me on
LinkedIn, on Instagram, on YouTube.
00:43:34.704 --> 00:43:39.374
Hit me up, and as Sara said, I am
happy to read anyone's tea leaves.
00:43:39.394 --> 00:43:42.794
You made it this far, so why not
get a little bonus for your time?
00:43:42.822 --> 00:43:43.642
Sara Murray: Yes, love it.
00:43:43.652 --> 00:43:44.482
Thanks, Natalie.
00:43:44.702 --> 00:43:47.222
well, I will link all of her
links in the show notes, too.
00:43:47.252 --> 00:43:50.782
Her book is called, your book,
I have it handy too, actually.
00:43:50.980 --> 00:43:54.950
Natalie Siston: It's let her out, reclaim
who, reclaim who you've always been.
00:43:55.130 --> 00:43:56.180
That's what we're up to.
00:43:56.226 --> 00:43:56.446
Sara Murray: Let her out.
00:43:56.446 --> 00:43:56.516
I love that.
00:43:56.610 --> 00:43:58.190
Natalie Siston: Which, which is our sage.
00:43:58.190 --> 00:44:00.100
It's coming, coming back to sage.
00:44:00.806 --> 00:44:01.386
Sara Murray: I love it.
00:44:01.396 --> 00:44:02.126
So peaceful.
00:44:02.136 --> 00:44:05.266
All right, well, everyone take three deep
breaths and continue on with your day.
00:44:05.506 --> 00:44:07.736
Thank you so much for tuning
in to Prospecting on Purpose,
00:44:07.766 --> 00:44:08.576
and I'll see you next week.
00:44:10.378 --> 00:44:13.868
Thank you so much for listening to
the Prospecting on Purpose podcast.
00:44:14.778 --> 00:44:17.458
If you loved what you heard today,
subscribe to the podcast and
00:44:17.458 --> 00:44:18.868
please rate and leave a review.
00:44:19.998 --> 00:44:23.088
For more info on me or if you'd
like to work together, feel free to
00:44:23.088 --> 00:44:25.538
go to my website, saramurray.com.
00:44:26.298 --> 00:44:29.858
On social media, I'm usually
hanging out @saramurraysales.
00:44:30.688 --> 00:44:32.908
Thanks again for joining me
and I'll see you next time.