speaker-0: Hi there. Welcome to a brand new episode of Pending Ratification. I'm your host, Keenan Gray. And on this episode, we're gonna be talking about ⁓ sorry. I did yes, I forgot. We do have Yes, I know. I can't forget about you. My trusty, my trusty sidekick. Matty Mooney, Moodog.
speaker-1: Don't forget about me. I'm Maddie Mooney and this is pending ratification.
speaker-0: Yeah, season three, episode two. ⁓ we got to have our test run, if you want to call it a test run for our last episode, which was to, you know, get our feet wet a little bit and see how we w we connect. And I thought we did a pretty good job. Yeah, I know. I just had to remind myself that we have a co-host. Anyways, Yeah, this is gonna be a really fun episode that we have coming up here, of course, kinda continuing on our our season ⁓ with talking with some of the the best American women's distance runner.
speaker-1: Turns out we're pretty good co-hosts.
speaker-0: Before we dive into today's episode, let's talk about what just happened recently. ⁓ and believe it or not, it did not involve me. ⁓ it involved her at well, a diamond league.
speaker-1: It's true. I got to race the fifteen hundred at the pre classic on this past Friday night. ⁓ did I say race? ⁓ my gosh.
speaker-0: Race? You said race. I'm having to correct herself. I was like, She ran the whole thing, guys.
speaker-1: I paced. I paced it. I took that I took that race out and pasted it so that everybody could run really fast. but yeah, it was a great experience. I've never paced at such an elite meet before.
speaker-0: Have you pasted general?
speaker-1: I have paced in general, but just more so like college based meats, not pacing for people who are like my idols, people who I I like dream about lining up against some of them. So ⁓ it was cool, it was fun. ⁓ I did a thousand meters of the fifteen hundred at four flat pace and it was a good tune-up. Good tune up for the rest of my season, ⁓ as I get ready to go ⁓ over to Europe and do some racing.
speaker-0: Pacing a diamond league race. Something I'm gonna add on my bucket list in the in in the future. ⁓ I actually be I have to be f as fast as you though to even get qualified to do that. That was super cool just to be able to witness. ⁓ 'cause I know you've been working your behind off this season, and seeing some great results, whether it's your own races in the eight eight to the fifteen hundred meter range, mile distance too. so I'm I was pretty it was pretty cool to get you ha finally see you, you know, have your hard work pay off and get that opportunity to to go race or pace, I should say. Now I'm the one saying
speaker-1: No, you what they rhyme, it's hard.
speaker-0: She did race in the Diamond League. She just happened to not finish that race. But it's gonna be the coolest DNF you ever have in your life. If if there ever is such th as a as a cool DNF, no. No, I was down in the mix zone doing my thing with Dystat and I was on I was watching it on a TV screen so I actually didn't get to watch it in stadium.
speaker-1: True. It's okay. I could I could feel you cheering her.
speaker-0: Presence and you can hear, Go Moodog, go people are gonna put that on t shirts now. Go, Moodog, go. They're gonna show up to to meets now and that's that that's what they're gonna refer to you as
speaker-1: Yeah. Everyone's like, The Pacer, the Pacer.
speaker-0: No, it's not even the pacer. It's the mo it's the Moodog, it's the Moodog. ⁓ no, that's that was that was cool to able to witness that and ⁓ you know, you did come through the mix zone, which was I was like, Wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on, I wanna talk to you and then and then she was like, No, no, I can't, I gotta go I gotta go do my cooldown guys. Like she's just too cool.
speaker-1: Please, no autographs. ⁓
speaker-0: Yeah. So but Prefontaine, always a blast. ⁓ I believe this is my fourth Prefontaine that I have covered. ⁓ my first one was actually the Diamond League final in twenty twenty three, which was super cool to witness. One of the best track meets that I have ever been to, and some of the best track meets I've ever been to have been at Hayward Field. I mean, the NCAA championships this year were incredible. This year's Prefontaine always delivers and Yeah, and now it's just kinda getting into the heart of this this track season for a lot of pros. You know, collegiate season's over with, high school season's over with. You know, we're thinking cross country season is coming up here, but ⁓ obviously pros are still continuing on, whether it's Diamond League, World Ultimate Championships, ⁓ Commonwealth Games, European championships, all sorts of different stuff going on ⁓ this outdoor season and you know some of our guests are competing in in in those races on the at the highest of
speaker-1: That's why it's fun to interview the women we have lined up this season because they are the best of the best.
speaker-0: And they're all and they're all preparing for the US champs in in a couple of weeks, I believe. Yeah, end of July. End of July. ⁓ which for the first time in you know five thousand years, it's not at Hayward Field. ⁓ it's gonna be in in New York City, ⁓ at Icon Stadium. So that's a that's a new venue. ⁓ and again some of these at the athletes we are talking to are going to be competing at those US champs. and we it's weird though, not necessarily spots up for grabs for for a world team, but maybe more so bragging rights.
speaker-1: Yeah, I mean everyone still wants to run. I feel like with with having no world champs, no Olympics this year, people are just chasing fast times. They are. And so I'm excited for these US champs this year.
speaker-0: been thoroughly impressed with some of the times that people have been running this year and I'm like it's not even an a global championship year, it's not an Olympic year. Like these the people are taking risks. Yeah. And I love seeing seeing people take those risks. So ⁓ but yeah, as you mentioned you got Irish champs coming up here pretty soon. You're gonna look for your third Irish medal. Three. On d'un toi that's French, not Gaelic. Almost. I almost close there.
speaker-1: Third. We're going for number three.
speaker-0: But you're heading over there across the pond in just a couple of weeks. You excited to get back over there and and race again?
speaker-1: Yeah, I am excited. Like it's fun. It's very special to me to race for Ireland. It's very special for my family to race Ireland and you know, I hope one day I can represent Ireland on a a world stage. ⁓ but yeah, the national championships are are kind of a different energy compared to the US championships over there. But ⁓ you know, still like very elite competition, very fun. I'm ⁓ I'm excited to be a part of it again. metal. You should, but no. You just get a you get a medal. Yeah. You get a metal. Yeah, but I I I I treasure those metals. It is my pot of gold.
speaker-0: 'Cause yeah, and I'll never be able to say I'm an Irish medless.
speaker-1: Maybe an American medalist. Never know. Get back into the sport.
speaker-0: That's never gonna No, that's never gonna happen though. But our guest today has an American medal or two or handful of them. I really can't count because she's got a ton of them. So our guest today is the American record holder in the outdoor and road mile. She was a standout at Oklahoma State, turned pro in twenty twenty, went to Bowerman Union Athletics, and now has since signed with Hoka and is training with her fiance up in the Portland area. Please let's welcome into this show of pending gratification, Miss Sinclair Johnson.
speaker-2: ⁓ geez
speaker-0: You've been through the worst, like methods can break you. Have a world record ratified. ⁓
speaker-2: Just like keep having fun with it.
speaker-0: Well, it is always a pleasure when you have the American Road and Outdoor Mile record holder on the show. Sinclair, how are ya?
speaker-2: Thanks for having me. not a whole lot going on right now, kind of in between seasons, just came off indoor season and getting ready for outdoor seasons. So life's been pretty slow, but really enjoying the slowness right now.
speaker-0: It is a different year and that's something that me and Maddie have talked about all throughout this outdoor season is people are gonna be trying new things, new events, ⁓ 'cause there's not a global championship, there's not an Olympic game, so the season may look a little different compared to what it's been the last couple of years for you. So in those terms, Sinclair, what does that look like for you? Where can we expect you racing and what what does the season look like?
speaker-2: Yeah, it's definitely a different year. I mean, this is my first time navigating an off year ⁓ since I signed, I guess, with Nike. ⁓ so yeah, it's ⁓ definitely different in terms of there just not being like a world championship ⁓ team to be or even Olympic Olympic trials to be gearing up for. ⁓ but it's kinda cool 'cause it allows us to target some big, you know, Diamond League races and ⁓ be able to to gear up to try and run fast there and not really have to develop my whole outdoor season racing training around being ready at US champs primarily. So I'm looking forward to I think it's a little bit nice to have a year of that pressure kind of being off of of trying to make a team and and mainly just having fun and and racing and seeing how fast I can go. So I'm really looking forward to this outdoor season.
speaker-0: Well we're gonna talk a little bit more about your raising season as we get closer to the end of the show, but we're gonna talk about your beginnings and where you came from. Born in Indianapolis, though lived the majority of your life in Florida, you know, what was it like for you growing up in in both those towns, both those locations, different places of course? And you know, what was you know day-to-day life kinda look like for ya?
speaker-2: Yeah, I only lived in Indianapolis for six weeks of my life, so I can't really tell you what it was like growing up there since I did it. ⁓ but I yeah, so we moved to Florida when I was very, very young and that was where I grew up and very much home. I mean, we spent a lot of time going to the beach on the weekends. I lived in Orlando, ⁓ just outside of Orlando, Florida. So people are familiar with Orlando, there's Disney World and Universal, so spent a lot of weekends doing that. yeah, it was a fun childhood and luckily my parents still have their house there and my brother is still there too so I get to go back ⁓ a few times a year and and yeah go back to my hometown so that's always fun.
speaker-0: So what do your parents do? What can you tell us about your folks?
speaker-2: So my mom ⁓ for a long time was an OBGYN so delivered babies ⁓ and now has kind of had a different career change and she's actually a flight attendant for Delta. ⁓ so she is up in the air a lot, traveling, flying to Paris, Rome. I mean she's ⁓ I honestly somewhere else in the world. It's like a different a different day, a different week. So ⁓ it's fun to follow her journey. And then my dad actually lives over in the Middle East in Saudi Arabia. He's lived there since twenty nineteen. ⁓ He's landscape architect doing a lot of work over there because they're yeah, have a lot of oil money that they're wanting to spend on big projects to bring tourism or revamp you know public spaces and stuff. So yeah, my dad does lot of that work.
speaker-0: So how often do you see your dad then?
speaker-2: Yeah, and yeah, I don't get to see my dad as much. ⁓ unfortunately. I see him probably the last time I saw him was Christmas time. ⁓ and then I probably honestly all get to see him for a couple of Diamond League races that I'm planning to do over in Europe ⁓ this summer, but then probably not again until September, when Craig and I get married. So yeah, it is a little sad. I don't get to see him like as often, but honestly, like I travel so much too, so ⁓ I feel like both of our schedules are are so crazy that, you know, we just do the best we can with the time we have. But ⁓
speaker-0: Yeah. And then some of the research I did on your brother, he works for the Orlando Magic. How did that opportunity come about?
speaker-2: Yeah, I think ⁓ I'm not really sure exactly how he got involved, ⁓ probably just applied. ⁓ I think, you know, he ran track in ⁓ cross country in high school and then he didn't run in college, but he went to University of Florida and and helped out with the track team there. And so he was he's been ins involved in sport his entire life and I think just wanted to kind of continue that on in his adult career and ⁓ found an opportunity with Orlando Magic and yeah, he's thriving and and loving it and Definitely different than Neo Track and Field Space, the NBA they play like every other day. So it's a very hectic schedule. It's very busy, but he's really enjoying it.
speaker-0: Yeah, eighty two games is a lot compared to an entire track season. It might be the same amount of months as well, but you know, both of you at one point in your your your lives have your own running stories. What's kind of the one for you? And then
speaker-1: Yeah, no, I totally get it. My I come from a running family as well. Like my brother ran, my sister ran, both my parents ran, and that kind of shaped my involvement in the sport growing up and why I love it so much. ⁓ but I'm curious, how did your parents get started running?
speaker-2: Yeah, my parents they weren't competitive with running but they ⁓ picked it up honestly in college and kind of post college just running marathons like and my mom even ran some ultra marathons to like fifty hundred miles. So I guess running was kind of in our family in in terms of that's my parents did like long distance running. ⁓ but it kind of got introduced to me in my freshman year of high school when ⁓ my mom suggested I run cross. country to to stay in shape for the the lacrosse season that was gonna be in the spring and kinda one thing led to another and never ended up playing lacrosse in high school and started running and now here I am.
speaker-1: So were you good just right off the bat, like you started running as a freshman and knew you were talented in your blood, or did it take a little bit of time to kind of get into the sport and find that out?
speaker-2: Yeah, I think there was definitely talent right off the bat. ⁓ I think with my lacrosse background, you know, I was a midfield midfielder and so I ran a lot and I think people kind of always told my mom and and noticed how fast I was. ⁓ so yeah, I definitely think there was some natural talent there. And then I also when I got to track, I think I found more of a love with running 'cause I like the shorter, faster stuff. So doing the eight hundred on the track was a lot of fun in in high school. and I think I I I love team sports and I do miss that you know that kind of aspect in track and field. You don't get a whole lot of team aspect to it, but ⁓ I did really like the individuality of track and just how I kind of got what I got what out of myself would I put in, and so ⁓ there was nothing else that really mattered, and there will be a lot of little cross games where you know I would be doing my best running up and down the field like. trying to do the most and then you know we and ultimately lose the game because I can only do so much as one person. So I think I like that aspect of track and field where it's like I could c totally control the outcome and yeah that was that was nice.
speaker-1: I totally get what you're coming from. Like I came from the the soccer to running pipeline, you came from the lacrosse to running pipeline. A lot of runners seem to come from different sports. So funny how we all end up here 'cause of the individualness of running. ⁓ I'm curious, now that you've been living in in Oregon for a good a good chunk of time now, do you ever miss like that Florida weather that you come from? The heat and the humidity, or now are you like, do you prefer the coolness of Oregon?
speaker-2: Yeah, I do think being out here has made me really soft because anytime I go back to a humid place or even just being in Tokyo last summer, it yeah, humidity is brutal and I think I must have just been a lot tougher back in high school because we would practice at, you know, two two thirty PM after school in August and thinking about doing that now I just can't even imagine. It was that's so hot and humid. So ⁓ yeah, I definitely don't miss that. aspect of it but there is something about the heat and humidity that makes you feel like really accomplished after you complete a workout or run in it. ⁓ I think sometimes you kind of people call it like poor man's altitude. You get a little bit more bang for your buck. So ⁓ I think I like approach it differently now. Like I don't love to to suffer in it but I do like it probably is good for me here there.
speaker-0: I I'll tell you this. Both your guys' running stories are far superior to mine. My mom basically told me I wasn't good at baseball and said I should just try this running thing instead. And I'm glad she said that at the end of the day. ⁓ but you know, sounds like ⁓ obviously for for the most part you guys found an easier transition into this sport. So, you know, kind of on that topic, Sinclair, realizing when did you realize that this is actually gonna be a thing for you in the future?
speaker-2: ⁓ ooh. I mean, I never really thought about it like that until college, honestly. I think in high school it was it was like a means to get to college. ⁓ and you know, when doors sort started opening up and it started to become real that I could get a scholarship to run in college. I think then college was as far as I was thinking running would go and then when college happened I was thinking, ⁓ this is really fun while I'm doing it but didn't really see a long term feature with it. And then junior year when I ⁓ won the national title in the fifteen hundred outdoors, I think doors opened and then, you know, it became a reality that I could do this post ⁓ college too. So yeah, I think it's just kind of been a natural progression of when you have performances that open doors for you, then you walk through those doors and then more doors open and then ⁓ so that's been yeah, I think like that and I I think if you were to tell me, I don't know, ten years ago that I I would be here right now, I would not believe you, but I also would have traded for the world. It's been a lot of fun.
speaker-0: Well it's a perfect segue, I think, going into our next question conversation. You chose Oklahoma State and you both have gone through the recruiting process. You went to the University of Wisconsin Madison, you ended up in Stillwater. What was the poll to Stillwater and, you know, Coach Dave Smith and you know just be able to go to Oklahoma State and and continue your r your running career?
speaker-2: Yeah, very different. but I honestly loved it. It was the first college that I took a visit to, ⁓ an official visit, and I just loved everything about it. I think ⁓ it was the perfect place for me to feel like I could really progress my my running career and ⁓ I felt like this was it really I really resonated with the team and the coach and kind of the people there. I think there was this sense of community that I really Really liked about Stillwater and OSU in general. And ⁓ yeah, I think those were big reasons what drew me there. Obviously, Dave Smith had had a lot of success with someone kind of my wheelhouse that you know had some good foot speed but also ran cross country and was pretty good at that too. So ⁓ yeah, I think it was just like a perfect fit. I think I went in with honestly no expectations of what I was gonna think of Stillwater was gonna be like or if I was gonna enjoy it. or not and I think it really blew away my expectations and I was actually really sad to leave when when I was on the plane home ⁓ for my official visit and I feel like that's kind of when I knew that this was gonna be the place where I wanted to go.
speaker-0: One of the things that I discovered when I went to Stillwater a couple years ago was the Sonic Drive In. And I was just kind of shocked that that that's where like the first ever Sonic Drive in was. Yeah. But for but for me that was more of like a culture type of shock because you know, you come from a place like for me, Washington, you're from Florida, you go to Oklahoma, that's in the Midwest. I'm sure you felt the same exact way when you were going from Colorado to Wisconsin that that was a major change for you. You know, again, you've gone through this process. You've moved from Colorado to Wisconsin. ⁓ I can't imagine, you know that that that's obviously a big challenge. Can you speak a little bit on that and you know what that experience like was for you?
speaker-1: Yeah. it is a big change. And I feel like no matter what you expect going from high school to college, it's not it doesn't play out the way that you expected. So it's good to hear that you had such a great experience ⁓ in Stillwater. I also had a great experience in Wisconsin, but not everybody can say that for their careers. So can you speak on any like lessons you learned or like memories from college or things that you took away from your time in still water that you still use in your running career today.
speaker-2: Yeah, I mean I had my fair share of struggles. I'm not gonna sugarcoat it or paint a picture if that was, you know, not the reality. So I went through a lot of injuries. just and also just freshman year, just kind of figuring out how to live, you know, thousands of miles away from from home and kind of on my own. And ⁓ yeah, I think any freshman really kinda struggles with that. It's there's these little life stressors that you don't really like know about, but they kinda of like creep up on you in different ways. but yeah I think going back to what I was talking about with community, I think I found a place where I can really lean on people around me. And I think that's what got me through a lot of the hard times. And I think building a life outside of of running I think has been something that I've tried to do in my entire life and in college, you know I I feel like I had that too. And you know a lot of my teammates obviously were were my good friends and but I think you know having that kind of an off the track relationship really helped make the hard moments easier, I guess.
speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree with that. That's like whenever I talk to any high schoolers or or young college athletes, the advice I always give them is that you have to love your life outside of running at your school. ⁓ you know, you gotta make a good friend group, you gotta have, you know, your people, your community. ⁓ and then like going somewhere for academics that you enjoy is important too, and I know Keenan, I know you had some questions about that.
speaker-0: Yeah, you know, obviously, you know, no one thinks about professional running as the as the long term, you know. I'm maybe it was for you, you're thinking about that, but you know, your degree and I had to specifically pull up on my phone to look at this, research bachelor's degree in economics, and I'm going to say the specific school as well, the Spears School of Business at Oklahoma State. And the reason that you kind of took on this occ economic degree is I found this quote from an article at Oklahoma State was ⁓ able it was a good merging of math and real life scenarios, being able to concrete models to predict what's going on to happen in the future. So is that pretty good representation of what, you know, doing math and growing up and what that's like for you in terms of having the the interests in kind of learning what it's like to live in the adult world and, you know, I'm sure math and economics apply to a lot of things in in running as well, maybe like calculating splits or something like that. I mean I have no idea.
speaker-2: Yeah, definitely. I math was my favorite. subject, ⁓ I just always liked that there was a clear cut answer. I'm very like there needs to be a solution to every single problem I have. And so math was like the perfect subject ⁓ in regards to that. So yeah, I think I just really enjoyed the application of how you could use math in economics and like I guess like that quote said, you know, use it to predict real world real world situations. So yeah, I kind of came into economics pretty early in my freshman year. And I honestly just really loved it and kept with it. And I had some really fun classes that I got to do through ⁓ my time at Oklahoma State that, you know, involved like the labor market or ⁓ a game theory class. So ⁓ yeah, it was a lot of fun.
speaker-0: So with that math, do you like predicting what you can run in time or in in races and in workouts or in practice? What what does that look like for ya?
speaker-2: Yeah, I mean There there definitely are times where I have specific workouts that are, you know, designed to simulate race pace or or whatever that is. And ⁓ I think, you know, if the workout goes really well, if I run certain times and I'm like, okay, yeah, I'm ready to run three fifty seven, three fifty six or whatever it is. So ⁓ yeah, there are definitely times where I'm making the calculations of okay, I did, you know, broken eight hundreds and I average this so probably I can average whatever for you know fifteen hundred.
speaker-0: Well, seems pretty fitting that you're marrying a guy that's known as the Pace Pirate and you've actually had, you know, your fair share of opportunities to be a pacer. I know you p ⁓ paced ⁓ a five thousand or ten thousand, I believe it was a couple years ago at the Prefontaine Classic, believe maybe it was Beatrice Chabet or w maybe it was Gudov Segay, but you you've you you've been in that that realm where you've you know got to pace
speaker-2: It was Rudolph Sagay.
speaker-0: Yeah, so Gudoff's a guy. Yeah. So then it's perfect that you and Craig are gonna be together as pacers, if you will. ⁓ and you met Craig at Oklahoma State University. How did that come about and that relationship start?
speaker-2: Yeah, yeah. Craig and I have been together for over nine years now. So, ⁓ I mean I met him when I was eighteen years old, which is kind of crazy to say. I'm turning twenty eight in two weeks. So I feel like I kind of grew up with him in a sense, ⁓ which feels really special, especially where we're at now, like of where we were, you know, nine years ago, ⁓ to now. So yeah, we just met my freshman year. ⁓ I actually met him on my visit to Oklahoma State. He was coming back from Bernia surgery and was doing a short run ⁓ and he decided to hop in with ⁓ some of the girl recruits and and some of the hosts that were on the women on the team. So I actually met him that day. I don't know if we even said one word to each other or even you know recognized or even you know put the connection to each other. But yeah I think it kind of just blossomed into it was a friendship my freshman year in the fall and then just kind of you know started hanging out more and started realizing that you know we like each other more than as friends and yeah now here we are so it's been fun to have him along the journey ⁓ especially my running career from my yeah my freshman year of ⁓ college all the way to when I signed my first pro contract and and now this new journey we're we're creating this team in in Portland so ⁓ with Hoka. So yeah, it's been a really, really fun and ⁓ just rewarding journey, especially now that he's my coach too. I think ⁓ yeah it's been
speaker-0: Alright, be honest. Is he Coach Craig or is it just Craig?
speaker-2: And no, it's just Greg.
speaker-0: Okay, just w I just wanna I just wanna get that out of the way. I just wanna clarify if he's Coach Craig or if he's just Craig, but yeah, no gosh, I mean your senior season you guys are probably not even thinking what the what the future is gonna look like for you guys, especially after graduating from college, and I'm sure that was the same way from you when you were finishing up your degree at Wisconsin, you're thinking, What am I gonna do?
speaker-1: Yeah. Afterwards. Yeah. It's so true. And the fact that I don't know, the fact that I ended up running like running is something I still take very seriously and obviously you do too. And it's kind of funny, the people who come in your life and play parts in that. ⁓ and I'm so curious and Claire, like if you think all the way back if you think back to your college years and the people you were racing against regularly, some of them you're still racing against today and the person I'm specifically thinking of is Jess Hole. Like did you when you raced Jess Hole for that fifteen hundred meter national title back in what would have been twenty nine twenty nineteen. Yeah. Did that start a bit of a rivalry between you guys or like a just like a want to beat her kind of thing? Or I mean I I know you guys don't match up all that much since she's based in Australia and you're based in the US. But I'm just curious, do you have any like rivalry feeling with Jess Hole ⁓ from those college days.
speaker-2: Yeah, definitely. ⁓ I think Jess is always gonna be someone that I look up to. I think I looked up to her in my sophomore year of college and then found myself, you know, competing side by side with her for that national title my junior year. And yeah, it's definitely sparked some rivalry. I think ⁓ Jess is like a competitor like myself. Like she always wants to win and I really like respect that about her and ⁓ yeah, it's been it's been fun and it's always a familiar face. I mean, we were even teammates for little bit when we were both on Union for a year and ⁓ that was like I definitely like a special time to kind of learn from her and ⁓ yeah it's been yeah just like really really cool to see how far we've come especially from that that one race like I do look back on that race sometimes and I like ⁓ my ⁓ my gosh we are so young in that in that ⁓ that video so yeah it's been
speaker-1: Yeah. I remember watching that live. Like I was I was young in college at that time. I remember watching it on my TV. and you guys were in your you were your bright orange like OSU uniform and it was so hot. It was in Austin. The first time the national championship was held in Austin instead of Hayward. ⁓
speaker-2: Yeah, yeah. It was cool too, 'cause I think, you know, when you know, Jess was Jess and I both were at the top of our our game thus far at that time and ⁓ just really cool to watch or just see how that race unplays when you have two people just at their fittest and and we really push each other and I think we ran, you know, a championship record that still stands to this day. So ⁓ yeah, it is it's cool to c look back on that. But then also like how far we've come since then. I mean she He's got multiple medal surname and I have American records. So yeah, it's pretty special.
speaker-0: I mean, you both have accomplished so much since that time in Austin in in twenty nineteen. I mean, we're talking seven years ago when that race happened. I mean, it's crazy how fast time truly does fly. And that was kind of a weird point because that was like that was the last year where, you know, before the pandemic, before COVID and all that stuff, that was of course your transition in the into the the professional ranks where you you signed with Bowerman and I can't imagine what it was like during that time, you know, being a professional athlete and having to go through that. Then you left Ballerman in 2021 to go to Union Athletics. You were there for about three or four years, and then you decide to leave Union Athletics and start training with Craig alone. So I'm curious, what was that shifting around like for you. Did you see some benefits with it? Did you see some negatives with it? Cause I'm sure there's there's both s similar or there's both negatives and consequ and positive that go with it.
speaker-2: Yeah, I mean I think there's always times in your life where you can learn for better or for worse and I think a lot of those experiences I was learning. I was very, very new to the pro scene when I joined Bowerman Track Club and I got to learn from some incredible athletes like, you know, Emily Infeld and Shelby Hulahan and Kirsten Schweitzer and and so I really got to be kind of a sponge and absorb all of their knowledge and all of their wisdom and ⁓ I think it a lot of times when ⁓ I don't feel like a situation is serving me anymore in terms of training. I think it's hard to ⁓ stick in it just because I think our career is so short and we don't wanna, you know, waste time and ⁓ I definitely felt like with Bowerman it just wasn't quite the right fit. I mean I'm definitely more of an eight hundred, fifteen hundred runner and ⁓ the training situation just didn't didn't suit me and so I made a change and and that worked for a while until it didn't and ⁓ I think a lot of times, you know it there's beauty in like sticking things out and and really trying to make them work and ⁓ and being able to I don't know get through the hard times and and the you know the valleys but I also think too when there's a certain pattern that's a keep happening and for me it was a lot of injuries, I think that's something that okay is maybe we we should look into more and ⁓ I really just when I left union and wanted to join Craig ⁓ full time I really just wanted to stop being in All the time. It's really hard to keep consistency and compete and train at this level when I'm taking months off for massive bone injuries. So ⁓ yeah, I think every decision I've made has been very calculated and has had a lot of thought to it and it's taken a lot of deliberation, and I'm not a rash, irrational person when I when it comes to making decisions. ⁓ But I think every decision has been timely and something that I really needed some kind of change. I needed at the moment to yeah, make a better situation for myself.
speaker-0: So who approached who? Was it you going to Craig saying, Hey, come coach me? Was it him saying, I want to coach you? Like, you know, him writing the workouts and all that stuff? Like how did those conversations start between you two realizing like, all right, this could be a better scenario for me long term by training under you?
speaker-2: Yeah, I mean he wanted he wanted to from the get go. I think Craig's always been a a sounding board since the start of of my career and I've always bounced ideas off of him and I've asked him for advice and and whatnot. So ⁓ he's always been kind of like a pseudo coach to me, just hasn't really written my training and I think when, you know, my last bone injury in twenty ninety four leading into the Olympic trials happened, I think there was kind of a breaking point where I was in a low spot and I think him just kind of coming in and being like, we gotta cut this cycle, like you can't keep doing this. This is like, you know, destroying your mental health, but then also, you know, you're not able also destroying your body too, and you're not able to to really string together consistency. So yeah, I think it was like a a a very calculated effort on our part to keep me healthy. And ⁓ you know Craig has been experimenting for the past four years before this with his own training. and kind of seeing what works and stuff and I really liked his philosophy and his ideas and ⁓ I was kind of really willing to try something brand new at that point. So yeah I would say that it definitely paid off last year and I'm just excited to keep building.
speaker-1: I feel like you're the beginning of a movement of a lot of women runners who are training either by themselves or with their their partners, just with like helping us pacing. And it's cool to see. I'm so glad that it's working out for you and Craig and it's and it's been a good fit. ⁓ I'm curious, do you is that your preferred way? Like do you always work out alone or or just with Craig? Or do you ever link up with any of the other professional runners who also reside in Portland?
speaker-2: I I typically work out on my own. I ⁓ I do a lot of easy runs like Chrisha Schweitzer and and Emily Infeld live here in Portland and I also have several other friends who are training for their own marathons or whatever ⁓ here that I linked up for easy runs with. But ⁓ in terms of workouts it's just me and Craig and I honestly kinda prefer it that way. I think there were a lot of times where my workouts kind of fit into whatever the rest of the team was doing and that resulted in a lot. Of injuries for myself for just having workouts that didn't really make a whole lot of sense. So ⁓ right now I'm I'm enjoying being on my own and being able to control my day-to-day, and I get to do exactly what's best for me on the day. And I have a amazing training partner and Craig, and and he's great, and that's kind of really all I need right now. I think maybe in the future there'll be a time where I'm kind of craving more of an intime environment. ⁓ but for right now it's been just really nice to be on my and I've kind of been ⁓ a lone soldier for for many years before so ⁓ I I yeah I don't really mind it that way.
speaker-0: Well, outside of, you know, training on your own now, you're training w with Craig, the other big news is is after seven years you left Nike and have signed with Hoka. What were those conversations like, you know, discussing a new brand deal after being with a brand for for so long and that's really all you knew when you were going into the professional scene was Nike this, Nike that, but now you're a Hoka athlete. So what's that been like?
speaker-2: Yeah, I think it was it was a very difficult decision, I will say that. ⁓ I did really enjoy being a Nike athlete and ⁓ being part of that brand. But I think when it came to making this decision to change Hoka, it was a much bigger and much more like lasting ⁓ picture beyond just my competitive years and of what kind of legacy I I want to leave and I think it was really exciting when I got to meet the Hoka president and hear from her that, you know, they're really trying to make ⁓ a big push to have more of a pre presence on the track and field stage leading into the LA Olympics and ⁓ they kind of wanted me to be the start of that. And ⁓ yeah, I think it just feels really cool to have brands view you that highly and really want to elevate you and ⁓ have and vice versa have you elevate their brand. And I think it was just an opportunity for I guess my family in terms of Craig and an opportunity for him to be ⁓ part of a team and part of and being a coach of of a you know professional team and ⁓ yeah there were just a lot of a lot of aspects to this that I think gave us security and also ⁓ just opportunity beyond the next four years for me. So yeah it's and I think also too it's sometimes in you know the beginning of of my career I felt like I needed to really learn from a lot of people and be with a brand where you know I'm at the bottom of the tone and pole and I really need to be elevated by the rest of them and and now I think I'm in this opportunity where I'm entering probably the latter half of my career and and the years where I'm hoping to you know hit my peak and ⁓ be able to kind of build something from the ground up and something that's never been done at HOCA before was like just a very exciting opportunity.
speaker-1: Yeah, well you've certainly proven yourself as one of the best, not not only one of the best in the US, but one of the best in the world at your craft. ⁓ so it's been super cool to watch you join Hoka and pave, you know, your own path in the sport and do what's best for you. ⁓ I am curious now that you've been with Hoka for a little bit, how are you liking all the gear? What shoes do you like to train in? Like what should all the Sinclair fans out there know who like to, you know, use your expertise for their own ⁓
speaker-2: Yeah, it's been honestly a really easy transition. I think, ⁓ they have such an extensive footwear collection that I just kind of easily and seamlessly was able to replace my, you know, old rotation of shoes with their new rotation. So ⁓ yeah, I train in the Arahis and the Cliptons, those are my two go-tos and for workouts. I like the Rockets and this yellow X-3s. and I actually am really enjoying their foot their ⁓ spikes as well. And I think that was also a really cool opportunity as I'm working pretty closely with ⁓ their footboard team to kind of tweak their spike to really make it perfect and ⁓ that's been a fun project to be on and kind of something that I didn't really get to do with with Nike because I wasn't one I wasn't ever their sample size and two that just wasn't an opportunity that was ever presented to me. So yeah it's been fun to really kind of make this like perfect middle distance spike with them and ⁓ yeah be a part of yeah that
speaker-0: Well it sounds like
speaker-1: Yeah, well as you've ⁓ mentioned and I also heard you say in an interview after the New Balance Indoor Grand Prix that Hoka's building a team up in Portland. Do you have any updates on that and what that is going to look like for you? Yeah.
speaker-2: Yeah, it's still in the works and ⁓ you know, I think I can't really speak on too much of it, but what I will say is that, you know, we're really trying to create something that will last and something that's gonna be not only ⁓ high performing in terms of, you know, buying for medals at at the the team and at or sorry, at world championships and Olympic Games and creating a team like that, but also just a a good group of people and ⁓ a a nice place to train with you know really good athletes but also good people so ⁓ Craig and I have been part of a lot of the decisions ⁓ if not all the decisions and really trying to curate the best we can ⁓ and I think that's we're taking our time with the process because like I said we really want this thing to to last and to stick and not just be rushed. So ⁓ yeah we're still in the works with figuring out all logistics But yes, it will be here in Portland and ⁓ things are definitely becoming more real and ⁓ we're definitely putting a lot more pieces together. So I'm really excited when yeah, everything will be together and we'll be able to announce everything.
speaker-0: Well, I'm glad that Hoka is really working closely with you guys and trying to, you know, work this out and trying to make it a real thing. And I know, you know, that's gonna be an important thing for for you to be able to have training partners around you. But also the nice thing about Hoka is all these events you get to surround yourself with and being around so many great high school athletes, collegiate athletes, obviously pro athletes, Hoka Summer Mile Club, you got the Hoka Festival of Miles, you know, are you excited to be part of those and be involved? With those 'cause they are I'm sure you probably watched some of them when you were in high school, it's like, Wow, that is something I wanna be a part of someday.
speaker-2: ⁓ yeah, totally. I mean, I think those that's one of my favorite things to do is be involved with the younger generation of athletes in any way I can. So very looking very much looking forward to any opportunity I have with Hoka, like the Festival of Miles and ⁓ I know they do a lot of other like fun activations so throughout the year. So yeah, I'm really looking forward to being able to be more a part of that.
speaker-0: Well, that's awesome that you want to be more involved and you know, again, that just tells us a lot about you as a person and you know, wanting to help the next generation of athletes. But for yourself in a year, again, as I mentioned, no world championship and no Olympic Games, you know, we're seeing some weird stuff. Delil Mohammed, Ford Hurdler, she's racing the eight hundred, you know. Athletes like are just doing all sorts of different stuff. Is that something that's been on your mind this year in twenty twenty six, whether it's, you know, doing something different on the track or heck? Maybe even the roads if that's even floated your mind.
speaker-2: ⁓ no, definitely still on the track. I mean the furthest I'd go on the road is a mile right now. So yeah, I I I definitely wanna do more eight hundreds this year. I haven't I think I haven't really gotten enough opportunities to really have that eight hundred where I feel like, you know, I've hit my limit. So ⁓ yeah, I'm looking forward to doing more eight hundreds this year. Obviously the fifteen hundred. ⁓ but I think like for me it's it feels kind of like business as usual in terms of like the fi doing the fifteen and the eight hundred, ⁓ just because I felt like I haven't really fully maximized that for myself and this is another year where work to do that ⁓ and just get more experience on the international level that will help me in twenty ninety seven, twenty ninety eight. So nothing out of the ordinary for me. I'm not gonna be doing a five K. I'm not gonna be doing anything longer on the
speaker-0: So you're telling me you do not want to do twelve and a half laps or twenty laps on the track?
speaker-2: Maybe one day. I mean I definitely am curious what I could do in a five K. Just not curious enough yet to try it out. So ⁓ definitely gonna see for the fifteen hundred and the eight hundreds this year. But ⁓ yeah, maybe in maybe in twenty twenty nine after an Olympic year ⁓ I might be feeling, I don't know, motivated to run a five K, but we'll see.
speaker-0: I'm genuinely curious though what you could do in a four hundred. ⁓
speaker-2: ⁓ honestly I don't train like that. ⁓ I I ran fifty-five in high school. I don't know if I could run much faster than that. Maybe like a couple seconds if I trained for it, but probably not a four hundred. Honestly, that that that at the pro level it looks absolutely brutal. So I think well six eight hundred is
speaker-0: Yeah, it sounds fine by with me. I mean four hundred is a really hard, hard lap around.
speaker-2: Maybe. I mean, yeah, if there's an opportunity that presents itself and it makes sense, ⁓ at a meet, sure, maybe. That sounds that sounds like a fun change up. It sounds way more fun than running a five K on the track.
speaker-0: I would would hundred percent agree with that. So ⁓ USATF Road Mile Championships are coming up this year as well. You know, is that something that you are gonna be interested in doing too?
speaker-2: ⁓ I actually don't think I will be there, unfortunately. I know I I was hoping to, but with ⁓ so the World Roadrunning Championships is literally the day I'm getting married. ⁓ so I wouldn't be able to do that anyways. And honestly, at this point I'm pretty much in a base phase. It kind of felt a little bit too rushed ⁓ after indoor season to do that. So we'll not be there, but yeah, I definitely in in the future, I mean I love the road miles, so I'll be doing a lot more in the in the future. Yeah.
speaker-0: Well, the wedding is set for September nineteenth. What other details can you tell us about it?
speaker-2: Yeah, I mean, it's it's happening. I yeah. No, ⁓ I've yeah, I've been do obviously doing a lot of wedding wedding planning this year and I feel like I'm probably like eighty five percent of the days planned. ⁓ still a couple more or like one bigger detail and then a few more s minor details, but ⁓ for the most part, yeah, it's all coming together and it's feeling very real and ⁓ it's It's gonna be to have all of our closest family and friends here in Portland. And I think there's a lot of people that are coming that have never been out to the Pacific Northwest. So I'm really excited for people to see that and hope they get the chance to get to explore other parts of the co of the state.
speaker-1: Well, I'll admit I was stalking your Instagram before this interview and you posted a picture of a wedding dress that was so stunning. I know it's probably not what you're wearing on your wedding day, but it was so beautiful.
speaker-2: Well, that's definitely not what I'm wearing. That would be absolutely crazy to to post that online, especially since Craig follows me out in serum. it was my second choice, I will say that. So so
speaker-1: Well I'm excited to see what the one you did pick looks like.
speaker-2: ⁓ thank you.
speaker-0: So as we get through this year and moving forward into, you know, twenty twenty seven, twenty twenty eight, next year, Beijing of course, LA twenty twenty eight, I know both of those are on your radar and this year in particular is kind of like a build up going into you know, those championship races. You know, what does the preparation look like for you with whether it's this year, you know, the follow up next year in twenty twenty seven and even twenty twenty eight for the the LA games?
speaker-2: Yeah, I mean I would say the preparation began began last year. ⁓ I think, you know, as soon as one championship ends, or like at least as soon as the Olympic Games in twenty ninety four end, it's like the whole new cycle starts. And you know, there's phases of the cycle. It's not always intensity all the time. But ⁓ yeah, I mean, I'm full in the I guess the the build up to to LA twenty twenty eight. I think everything is kind of pointing towards that way. So It is far away, but also it isn't. Like time flies and the things come up a lot quicker than you're anticipating. So yeah, LA twenty eight is always in the back of my mind. I really want to be there representing ⁓ the United States on a home Olympic Game. So ⁓ everything I do is yeah, is in preparation for that.
speaker-0: And if there's an Olympic Games that you want a medal at, it is LA twenty twenty eight. The competition of course is gonna be electric. Faith Kip Yagon, you know, your fellow countrywoman, Nikki Hilts, you got Jess Hole in the mix as well. I mean, and I know there's gonna be s a lot more fast collegiate athletes that are gonna be on the come up too that are also preparing for LA twenty twenty eight. So we are certainly looking forward to see how you progress over this next year, ye two years or so and hopefully you make that that team USA and represent the red, white, and blue. So as we actually end things here on this episode of pending ratification, we're gonna shift gears to a lighter thing. We're gonna it's gonna call records under review, where we're gonna ask you rapid fire type questions, and they're very random questions too.
speaker-2: Don't wear socks in your spikes.
speaker-0: So so me and Maddie have both been able to come up with them, but I'm gonna ask you if you were to pick a dog that best reflects you, what is that dog and why?
speaker-2: ⁓ my gosh. I think probably like a Rottweiler, I say this because Rottweilers are like kinda scary and intimidating from the outside. Like they like I'm probably not gonna r approach a Rottweiler that I don't know. ⁓ but then you get to know them and they're actually really sweet. So I would say like I have maybe like a harder like outside facade, but I actually have like a really big heart and ⁓ can be really sweet at times.
speaker-0: So you're nice off the track. You j you you you not friendly at all. Not not friendly at all. That's not that d don't mess with the Rottweiler. That's what you definitely do wanna do.
speaker-2: Exactly.
speaker-1: Okay, next question is what would your friends roast you for?
speaker-2: ⁓ my gosh. Oof. I don't know. I mean, probably a lot of things, but I'm trying to think. probably just like I'm I ⁓ can be very like particular about things and just very type A. and I feel like they would probably roast me about like, you know, everything's gotta be in line for me to to do whatever it is, so
speaker-0: What celebrity would you want to have dinner with dead or alive?
speaker-2: celebrity. I probably Serena Williams. I've always looked up to her, so yeah, more like a sports celebrity, but
speaker-0: Hey, her husband's heavily involved in Atlos, so I mean that's that's that's really cool. So
speaker-2: Yeah. Good to hear her there. Right. Right.
speaker-1: If you were an emoji, which emoji would you be? If you can describe it, best you can.
speaker-2: Yeah, I'm trying to think. Something I don't know, something like sassy, like I don't like maybe like the smirking one. That would probably be it. Yeah.
speaker-0: I don't even what would that look like? All the s all the spurk one. I was like I I was like I didn't quite understand. Sure. Yeah. Let's just go with that one. Yeah. 'Cause I know exactly what you two are talking about being the the tech savvy that I am. So well Well our show is called Pending Ratification, Sinclair and
speaker-2: Like the one where the kinda like
speaker-1: ⁓ yeah, I know it won.
speaker-0: One of the things that I asked my guests at the end of each episode, and we've been doing it the last couple of seasons, is, you know, what's a a world record you could set in non running related because, you know, pending means you have to wait, ratification, world records go through a ratifying process. So, Sinclair, what would be that non running world record attempt would you want to break?
speaker-2: ⁓ probably sleeping. I can sleep a lot.
speaker-0: Like hours on end or what are we talking like
speaker-2: It's just I can go to bed at ten PM and wake up at nine AM the next day, probably every single day. I could sleep for eleven hours a night and probably still need more sleep.
speaker-0: Do you experience this more when you're having to travel to different countries and having to adjust at different time zones?
speaker-2: Yeah, definitely I mean, yeah, ⁓ time time change is different. But I mean, even when I am on a break and I'm not even training hard, I still can sleep. Like I'm just I don't know, I'm just a good sleeper.
speaker-0: Wow, I would love to have that talent. Happening. I find myself having to wake up in the middle of the night way too often and then catch myself w waking up early in the morning and then taking a random nap in the middle of the day. So but well
speaker-1: Yeah, it's way better than the ⁓ than the opposite. It's brutal.
speaker-0: That is a f great talent you have there, Sinclair. So well, really appreciate your time hopping on here with us and you know getting to learn about you, who you are, away from the sport, and you're sharing your story from you know being born in Indianapolis, living in Orlando, going to Oklahoma State, and now of course residing in Oregon. ⁓ it's truly been really fun to to watch your journey. ⁓ and we really appreciate your time hopping on here on this episode of pending ratification. So good luck in the rest of 2026. We look forward to seeing the success that you have the rest of this outdoor season. So thanks again.
speaker-2: Thanks so much. It was really nice talking to you guys today.
speaker-0: Hey everyone, thanks for tuning in to this episode of Pending Ratification.
speaker-1: If you enjoyed this episode and want to tune into more, be sure to check out runnerspace.com or subscribe on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
speaker-0: I am your co-host Keenan Gray. And I This episode was produced and edited by Ben McGrath and Ian Turpid. Catch you on the next episode of Pending Ratification.
speaker-1: I'm your co-host Maddie Mooney.
speaker-2: Records is no more!
speaker-1: Don't forget about me. I'm Maddie Mooney and this is pending ratification.
speaker-0: Yeah, season three, episode two. ⁓ we got to have our test run, if you want to call it a test run for our last episode, which was to, you know, get our feet wet a little bit and see how we w we connect. And I thought we did a pretty good job. Yeah, I know. I just had to remind myself that we have a co-host. Anyways, Yeah, this is gonna be a really fun episode that we have coming up here, of course, kinda continuing on our our season ⁓ with talking with some of the the best American women's distance runner.
speaker-1: Turns out we're pretty good co-hosts.
speaker-0: Before we dive into today's episode, let's talk about what just happened recently. ⁓ and believe it or not, it did not involve me. ⁓ it involved her at well, a diamond league.
speaker-1: It's true. I got to race the fifteen hundred at the pre classic on this past Friday night. ⁓ did I say race? ⁓ my gosh.
speaker-0: Race? You said race. I'm having to correct herself. I was like, She ran the whole thing, guys.
speaker-1: I paced. I paced it. I took that I took that race out and pasted it so that everybody could run really fast. but yeah, it was a great experience. I've never paced at such an elite meet before.
speaker-0: Have you pasted general?
speaker-1: I have paced in general, but just more so like college based meats, not pacing for people who are like my idols, people who I I like dream about lining up against some of them. So ⁓ it was cool, it was fun. ⁓ I did a thousand meters of the fifteen hundred at four flat pace and it was a good tune-up. Good tune up for the rest of my season, ⁓ as I get ready to go ⁓ over to Europe and do some racing.
speaker-0: Pacing a diamond league race. Something I'm gonna add on my bucket list in the in in the future. ⁓ I actually be I have to be f as fast as you though to even get qualified to do that. That was super cool just to be able to witness. ⁓ 'cause I know you've been working your behind off this season, and seeing some great results, whether it's your own races in the eight eight to the fifteen hundred meter range, mile distance too. so I'm I was pretty it was pretty cool to get you ha finally see you, you know, have your hard work pay off and get that opportunity to to go race or pace, I should say. Now I'm the one saying
speaker-1: No, you what they rhyme, it's hard.
speaker-0: She did race in the Diamond League. She just happened to not finish that race. But it's gonna be the coolest DNF you ever have in your life. If if there ever is such th as a as a cool DNF, no. No, I was down in the mix zone doing my thing with Dystat and I was on I was watching it on a TV screen so I actually didn't get to watch it in stadium.
speaker-1: True. It's okay. I could I could feel you cheering her.
speaker-0: Presence and you can hear, Go Moodog, go people are gonna put that on t shirts now. Go, Moodog, go. They're gonna show up to to meets now and that's that that's what they're gonna refer to you as
speaker-1: Yeah. Everyone's like, The Pacer, the Pacer.
speaker-0: No, it's not even the pacer. It's the mo it's the Moodog, it's the Moodog. ⁓ no, that's that was that was cool to able to witness that and ⁓ you know, you did come through the mix zone, which was I was like, Wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on, I wanna talk to you and then and then she was like, No, no, I can't, I gotta go I gotta go do my cooldown guys. Like she's just too cool.
speaker-1: Please, no autographs. ⁓
speaker-0: Yeah. So but Prefontaine, always a blast. ⁓ I believe this is my fourth Prefontaine that I have covered. ⁓ my first one was actually the Diamond League final in twenty twenty three, which was super cool to witness. One of the best track meets that I have ever been to, and some of the best track meets I've ever been to have been at Hayward Field. I mean, the NCAA championships this year were incredible. This year's Prefontaine always delivers and Yeah, and now it's just kinda getting into the heart of this this track season for a lot of pros. You know, collegiate season's over with, high school season's over with. You know, we're thinking cross country season is coming up here, but ⁓ obviously pros are still continuing on, whether it's Diamond League, World Ultimate Championships, ⁓ Commonwealth Games, European championships, all sorts of different stuff going on ⁓ this outdoor season and you know some of our guests are competing in in in those races on the at the highest of
speaker-1: That's why it's fun to interview the women we have lined up this season because they are the best of the best.
speaker-0: And they're all and they're all preparing for the US champs in in a couple of weeks, I believe. Yeah, end of July. End of July. ⁓ which for the first time in you know five thousand years, it's not at Hayward Field. ⁓ it's gonna be in in New York City, ⁓ at Icon Stadium. So that's a that's a new venue. ⁓ and again some of these at the athletes we are talking to are going to be competing at those US champs. and we it's weird though, not necessarily spots up for grabs for for a world team, but maybe more so bragging rights.
speaker-1: Yeah, I mean everyone still wants to run. I feel like with with having no world champs, no Olympics this year, people are just chasing fast times. They are. And so I'm excited for these US champs this year.
speaker-0: been thoroughly impressed with some of the times that people have been running this year and I'm like it's not even an a global championship year, it's not an Olympic year. Like these the people are taking risks. Yeah. And I love seeing seeing people take those risks. So ⁓ but yeah, as you mentioned you got Irish champs coming up here pretty soon. You're gonna look for your third Irish medal. Three. On d'un toi that's French, not Gaelic. Almost. I almost close there.
speaker-1: Third. We're going for number three.
speaker-0: But you're heading over there across the pond in just a couple of weeks. You excited to get back over there and and race again?
speaker-1: Yeah, I am excited. Like it's fun. It's very special to me to race for Ireland. It's very special for my family to race Ireland and you know, I hope one day I can represent Ireland on a a world stage. ⁓ but yeah, the national championships are are kind of a different energy compared to the US championships over there. But ⁓ you know, still like very elite competition, very fun. I'm ⁓ I'm excited to be a part of it again. metal. You should, but no. You just get a you get a medal. Yeah. You get a metal. Yeah, but I I I I treasure those metals. It is my pot of gold.
speaker-0: 'Cause yeah, and I'll never be able to say I'm an Irish medless.
speaker-1: Maybe an American medalist. Never know. Get back into the sport.
speaker-0: That's never gonna No, that's never gonna happen though. But our guest today has an American medal or two or handful of them. I really can't count because she's got a ton of them. So our guest today is the American record holder in the outdoor and road mile. She was a standout at Oklahoma State, turned pro in twenty twenty, went to Bowerman Union Athletics, and now has since signed with Hoka and is training with her fiance up in the Portland area. Please let's welcome into this show of pending gratification, Miss Sinclair Johnson.
speaker-2: ⁓ geez
speaker-0: You've been through the worst, like methods can break you. Have a world record ratified. ⁓
speaker-2: Just like keep having fun with it.
speaker-0: Well, it is always a pleasure when you have the American Road and Outdoor Mile record holder on the show. Sinclair, how are ya?
speaker-2: Thanks for having me. not a whole lot going on right now, kind of in between seasons, just came off indoor season and getting ready for outdoor seasons. So life's been pretty slow, but really enjoying the slowness right now.
speaker-0: It is a different year and that's something that me and Maddie have talked about all throughout this outdoor season is people are gonna be trying new things, new events, ⁓ 'cause there's not a global championship, there's not an Olympic game, so the season may look a little different compared to what it's been the last couple of years for you. So in those terms, Sinclair, what does that look like for you? Where can we expect you racing and what what does the season look like?
speaker-2: Yeah, it's definitely a different year. I mean, this is my first time navigating an off year ⁓ since I signed, I guess, with Nike. ⁓ so yeah, it's ⁓ definitely different in terms of there just not being like a world championship ⁓ team to be or even Olympic Olympic trials to be gearing up for. ⁓ but it's kinda cool 'cause it allows us to target some big, you know, Diamond League races and ⁓ be able to to gear up to try and run fast there and not really have to develop my whole outdoor season racing training around being ready at US champs primarily. So I'm looking forward to I think it's a little bit nice to have a year of that pressure kind of being off of of trying to make a team and and mainly just having fun and and racing and seeing how fast I can go. So I'm really looking forward to this outdoor season.
speaker-0: Well we're gonna talk a little bit more about your raising season as we get closer to the end of the show, but we're gonna talk about your beginnings and where you came from. Born in Indianapolis, though lived the majority of your life in Florida, you know, what was it like for you growing up in in both those towns, both those locations, different places of course? And you know, what was you know day-to-day life kinda look like for ya?
speaker-2: Yeah, I only lived in Indianapolis for six weeks of my life, so I can't really tell you what it was like growing up there since I did it. ⁓ but I yeah, so we moved to Florida when I was very, very young and that was where I grew up and very much home. I mean, we spent a lot of time going to the beach on the weekends. I lived in Orlando, ⁓ just outside of Orlando, Florida. So people are familiar with Orlando, there's Disney World and Universal, so spent a lot of weekends doing that. yeah, it was a fun childhood and luckily my parents still have their house there and my brother is still there too so I get to go back ⁓ a few times a year and and yeah go back to my hometown so that's always fun.
speaker-0: So what do your parents do? What can you tell us about your folks?
speaker-2: So my mom ⁓ for a long time was an OBGYN so delivered babies ⁓ and now has kind of had a different career change and she's actually a flight attendant for Delta. ⁓ so she is up in the air a lot, traveling, flying to Paris, Rome. I mean she's ⁓ I honestly somewhere else in the world. It's like a different a different day, a different week. So ⁓ it's fun to follow her journey. And then my dad actually lives over in the Middle East in Saudi Arabia. He's lived there since twenty nineteen. ⁓ He's landscape architect doing a lot of work over there because they're yeah, have a lot of oil money that they're wanting to spend on big projects to bring tourism or revamp you know public spaces and stuff. So yeah, my dad does lot of that work.
speaker-0: So how often do you see your dad then?
speaker-2: Yeah, and yeah, I don't get to see my dad as much. ⁓ unfortunately. I see him probably the last time I saw him was Christmas time. ⁓ and then I probably honestly all get to see him for a couple of Diamond League races that I'm planning to do over in Europe ⁓ this summer, but then probably not again until September, when Craig and I get married. So yeah, it is a little sad. I don't get to see him like as often, but honestly, like I travel so much too, so ⁓ I feel like both of our schedules are are so crazy that, you know, we just do the best we can with the time we have. But ⁓
speaker-0: Yeah. And then some of the research I did on your brother, he works for the Orlando Magic. How did that opportunity come about?
speaker-2: Yeah, I think ⁓ I'm not really sure exactly how he got involved, ⁓ probably just applied. ⁓ I think, you know, he ran track in ⁓ cross country in high school and then he didn't run in college, but he went to University of Florida and and helped out with the track team there. And so he was he's been ins involved in sport his entire life and I think just wanted to kind of continue that on in his adult career and ⁓ found an opportunity with Orlando Magic and yeah, he's thriving and and loving it and Definitely different than Neo Track and Field Space, the NBA they play like every other day. So it's a very hectic schedule. It's very busy, but he's really enjoying it.
speaker-0: Yeah, eighty two games is a lot compared to an entire track season. It might be the same amount of months as well, but you know, both of you at one point in your your your lives have your own running stories. What's kind of the one for you? And then
speaker-1: Yeah, no, I totally get it. My I come from a running family as well. Like my brother ran, my sister ran, both my parents ran, and that kind of shaped my involvement in the sport growing up and why I love it so much. ⁓ but I'm curious, how did your parents get started running?
speaker-2: Yeah, my parents they weren't competitive with running but they ⁓ picked it up honestly in college and kind of post college just running marathons like and my mom even ran some ultra marathons to like fifty hundred miles. So I guess running was kind of in our family in in terms of that's my parents did like long distance running. ⁓ but it kind of got introduced to me in my freshman year of high school when ⁓ my mom suggested I run cross. country to to stay in shape for the the lacrosse season that was gonna be in the spring and kinda one thing led to another and never ended up playing lacrosse in high school and started running and now here I am.
speaker-1: So were you good just right off the bat, like you started running as a freshman and knew you were talented in your blood, or did it take a little bit of time to kind of get into the sport and find that out?
speaker-2: Yeah, I think there was definitely talent right off the bat. ⁓ I think with my lacrosse background, you know, I was a midfield midfielder and so I ran a lot and I think people kind of always told my mom and and noticed how fast I was. ⁓ so yeah, I definitely think there was some natural talent there. And then I also when I got to track, I think I found more of a love with running 'cause I like the shorter, faster stuff. So doing the eight hundred on the track was a lot of fun in in high school. and I think I I I love team sports and I do miss that you know that kind of aspect in track and field. You don't get a whole lot of team aspect to it, but ⁓ I did really like the individuality of track and just how I kind of got what I got what out of myself would I put in, and so ⁓ there was nothing else that really mattered, and there will be a lot of little cross games where you know I would be doing my best running up and down the field like. trying to do the most and then you know we and ultimately lose the game because I can only do so much as one person. So I think I like that aspect of track and field where it's like I could c totally control the outcome and yeah that was that was nice.
speaker-1: I totally get what you're coming from. Like I came from the the soccer to running pipeline, you came from the lacrosse to running pipeline. A lot of runners seem to come from different sports. So funny how we all end up here 'cause of the individualness of running. ⁓ I'm curious, now that you've been living in in Oregon for a good a good chunk of time now, do you ever miss like that Florida weather that you come from? The heat and the humidity, or now are you like, do you prefer the coolness of Oregon?
speaker-2: Yeah, I do think being out here has made me really soft because anytime I go back to a humid place or even just being in Tokyo last summer, it yeah, humidity is brutal and I think I must have just been a lot tougher back in high school because we would practice at, you know, two two thirty PM after school in August and thinking about doing that now I just can't even imagine. It was that's so hot and humid. So ⁓ yeah, I definitely don't miss that. aspect of it but there is something about the heat and humidity that makes you feel like really accomplished after you complete a workout or run in it. ⁓ I think sometimes you kind of people call it like poor man's altitude. You get a little bit more bang for your buck. So ⁓ I think I like approach it differently now. Like I don't love to to suffer in it but I do like it probably is good for me here there.
speaker-0: I I'll tell you this. Both your guys' running stories are far superior to mine. My mom basically told me I wasn't good at baseball and said I should just try this running thing instead. And I'm glad she said that at the end of the day. ⁓ but you know, sounds like ⁓ obviously for for the most part you guys found an easier transition into this sport. So, you know, kind of on that topic, Sinclair, realizing when did you realize that this is actually gonna be a thing for you in the future?
speaker-2: ⁓ ooh. I mean, I never really thought about it like that until college, honestly. I think in high school it was it was like a means to get to college. ⁓ and you know, when doors sort started opening up and it started to become real that I could get a scholarship to run in college. I think then college was as far as I was thinking running would go and then when college happened I was thinking, ⁓ this is really fun while I'm doing it but didn't really see a long term feature with it. And then junior year when I ⁓ won the national title in the fifteen hundred outdoors, I think doors opened and then, you know, it became a reality that I could do this post ⁓ college too. So yeah, I think it's just kind of been a natural progression of when you have performances that open doors for you, then you walk through those doors and then more doors open and then ⁓ so that's been yeah, I think like that and I I think if you were to tell me, I don't know, ten years ago that I I would be here right now, I would not believe you, but I also would have traded for the world. It's been a lot of fun.
speaker-0: Well it's a perfect segue, I think, going into our next question conversation. You chose Oklahoma State and you both have gone through the recruiting process. You went to the University of Wisconsin Madison, you ended up in Stillwater. What was the poll to Stillwater and, you know, Coach Dave Smith and you know just be able to go to Oklahoma State and and continue your r your running career?
speaker-2: Yeah, very different. but I honestly loved it. It was the first college that I took a visit to, ⁓ an official visit, and I just loved everything about it. I think ⁓ it was the perfect place for me to feel like I could really progress my my running career and ⁓ I felt like this was it really I really resonated with the team and the coach and kind of the people there. I think there was this sense of community that I really Really liked about Stillwater and OSU in general. And ⁓ yeah, I think those were big reasons what drew me there. Obviously, Dave Smith had had a lot of success with someone kind of my wheelhouse that you know had some good foot speed but also ran cross country and was pretty good at that too. So ⁓ yeah, I think it was just like a perfect fit. I think I went in with honestly no expectations of what I was gonna think of Stillwater was gonna be like or if I was gonna enjoy it. or not and I think it really blew away my expectations and I was actually really sad to leave when when I was on the plane home ⁓ for my official visit and I feel like that's kind of when I knew that this was gonna be the place where I wanted to go.
speaker-0: One of the things that I discovered when I went to Stillwater a couple years ago was the Sonic Drive In. And I was just kind of shocked that that that's where like the first ever Sonic Drive in was. Yeah. But for but for me that was more of like a culture type of shock because you know, you come from a place like for me, Washington, you're from Florida, you go to Oklahoma, that's in the Midwest. I'm sure you felt the same exact way when you were going from Colorado to Wisconsin that that was a major change for you. You know, again, you've gone through this process. You've moved from Colorado to Wisconsin. ⁓ I can't imagine, you know that that that's obviously a big challenge. Can you speak a little bit on that and you know what that experience like was for you?
speaker-1: Yeah. it is a big change. And I feel like no matter what you expect going from high school to college, it's not it doesn't play out the way that you expected. So it's good to hear that you had such a great experience ⁓ in Stillwater. I also had a great experience in Wisconsin, but not everybody can say that for their careers. So can you speak on any like lessons you learned or like memories from college or things that you took away from your time in still water that you still use in your running career today.
speaker-2: Yeah, I mean I had my fair share of struggles. I'm not gonna sugarcoat it or paint a picture if that was, you know, not the reality. So I went through a lot of injuries. just and also just freshman year, just kind of figuring out how to live, you know, thousands of miles away from from home and kind of on my own. And ⁓ yeah, I think any freshman really kinda struggles with that. It's there's these little life stressors that you don't really like know about, but they kinda of like creep up on you in different ways. but yeah I think going back to what I was talking about with community, I think I found a place where I can really lean on people around me. And I think that's what got me through a lot of the hard times. And I think building a life outside of of running I think has been something that I've tried to do in my entire life and in college, you know I I feel like I had that too. And you know a lot of my teammates obviously were were my good friends and but I think you know having that kind of an off the track relationship really helped make the hard moments easier, I guess.
speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree with that. That's like whenever I talk to any high schoolers or or young college athletes, the advice I always give them is that you have to love your life outside of running at your school. ⁓ you know, you gotta make a good friend group, you gotta have, you know, your people, your community. ⁓ and then like going somewhere for academics that you enjoy is important too, and I know Keenan, I know you had some questions about that.
speaker-0: Yeah, you know, obviously, you know, no one thinks about professional running as the as the long term, you know. I'm maybe it was for you, you're thinking about that, but you know, your degree and I had to specifically pull up on my phone to look at this, research bachelor's degree in economics, and I'm going to say the specific school as well, the Spears School of Business at Oklahoma State. And the reason that you kind of took on this occ economic degree is I found this quote from an article at Oklahoma State was ⁓ able it was a good merging of math and real life scenarios, being able to concrete models to predict what's going on to happen in the future. So is that pretty good representation of what, you know, doing math and growing up and what that's like for you in terms of having the the interests in kind of learning what it's like to live in the adult world and, you know, I'm sure math and economics apply to a lot of things in in running as well, maybe like calculating splits or something like that. I mean I have no idea.
speaker-2: Yeah, definitely. I math was my favorite. subject, ⁓ I just always liked that there was a clear cut answer. I'm very like there needs to be a solution to every single problem I have. And so math was like the perfect subject ⁓ in regards to that. So yeah, I think I just really enjoyed the application of how you could use math in economics and like I guess like that quote said, you know, use it to predict real world real world situations. So yeah, I kind of came into economics pretty early in my freshman year. And I honestly just really loved it and kept with it. And I had some really fun classes that I got to do through ⁓ my time at Oklahoma State that, you know, involved like the labor market or ⁓ a game theory class. So ⁓ yeah, it was a lot of fun.
speaker-0: So with that math, do you like predicting what you can run in time or in in races and in workouts or in practice? What what does that look like for ya?
speaker-2: Yeah, I mean There there definitely are times where I have specific workouts that are, you know, designed to simulate race pace or or whatever that is. And ⁓ I think, you know, if the workout goes really well, if I run certain times and I'm like, okay, yeah, I'm ready to run three fifty seven, three fifty six or whatever it is. So ⁓ yeah, there are definitely times where I'm making the calculations of okay, I did, you know, broken eight hundreds and I average this so probably I can average whatever for you know fifteen hundred.
speaker-0: Well, seems pretty fitting that you're marrying a guy that's known as the Pace Pirate and you've actually had, you know, your fair share of opportunities to be a pacer. I know you p ⁓ paced ⁓ a five thousand or ten thousand, I believe it was a couple years ago at the Prefontaine Classic, believe maybe it was Beatrice Chabet or w maybe it was Gudov Segay, but you you've you you've been in that that realm where you've you know got to pace
speaker-2: It was Rudolph Sagay.
speaker-0: Yeah, so Gudoff's a guy. Yeah. So then it's perfect that you and Craig are gonna be together as pacers, if you will. ⁓ and you met Craig at Oklahoma State University. How did that come about and that relationship start?
speaker-2: Yeah, yeah. Craig and I have been together for over nine years now. So, ⁓ I mean I met him when I was eighteen years old, which is kind of crazy to say. I'm turning twenty eight in two weeks. So I feel like I kind of grew up with him in a sense, ⁓ which feels really special, especially where we're at now, like of where we were, you know, nine years ago, ⁓ to now. So yeah, we just met my freshman year. ⁓ I actually met him on my visit to Oklahoma State. He was coming back from Bernia surgery and was doing a short run ⁓ and he decided to hop in with ⁓ some of the girl recruits and and some of the hosts that were on the women on the team. So I actually met him that day. I don't know if we even said one word to each other or even you know recognized or even you know put the connection to each other. But yeah I think it kind of just blossomed into it was a friendship my freshman year in the fall and then just kind of you know started hanging out more and started realizing that you know we like each other more than as friends and yeah now here we are so it's been fun to have him along the journey ⁓ especially my running career from my yeah my freshman year of ⁓ college all the way to when I signed my first pro contract and and now this new journey we're we're creating this team in in Portland so ⁓ with Hoka. So yeah, it's been a really, really fun and ⁓ just rewarding journey, especially now that he's my coach too. I think ⁓ yeah it's been
speaker-0: Alright, be honest. Is he Coach Craig or is it just Craig?
speaker-2: And no, it's just Greg.
speaker-0: Okay, just w I just wanna I just wanna get that out of the way. I just wanna clarify if he's Coach Craig or if he's just Craig, but yeah, no gosh, I mean your senior season you guys are probably not even thinking what the what the future is gonna look like for you guys, especially after graduating from college, and I'm sure that was the same way from you when you were finishing up your degree at Wisconsin, you're thinking, What am I gonna do?
speaker-1: Yeah. Afterwards. Yeah. It's so true. And the fact that I don't know, the fact that I ended up running like running is something I still take very seriously and obviously you do too. And it's kind of funny, the people who come in your life and play parts in that. ⁓ and I'm so curious and Claire, like if you think all the way back if you think back to your college years and the people you were racing against regularly, some of them you're still racing against today and the person I'm specifically thinking of is Jess Hole. Like did you when you raced Jess Hole for that fifteen hundred meter national title back in what would have been twenty nine twenty nineteen. Yeah. Did that start a bit of a rivalry between you guys or like a just like a want to beat her kind of thing? Or I mean I I know you guys don't match up all that much since she's based in Australia and you're based in the US. But I'm just curious, do you have any like rivalry feeling with Jess Hole ⁓ from those college days.
speaker-2: Yeah, definitely. ⁓ I think Jess is always gonna be someone that I look up to. I think I looked up to her in my sophomore year of college and then found myself, you know, competing side by side with her for that national title my junior year. And yeah, it's definitely sparked some rivalry. I think ⁓ Jess is like a competitor like myself. Like she always wants to win and I really like respect that about her and ⁓ yeah, it's been it's been fun and it's always a familiar face. I mean, we were even teammates for little bit when we were both on Union for a year and ⁓ that was like I definitely like a special time to kind of learn from her and ⁓ yeah it's been yeah just like really really cool to see how far we've come especially from that that one race like I do look back on that race sometimes and I like ⁓ my ⁓ my gosh we are so young in that in that ⁓ that video so yeah it's been
speaker-1: Yeah. I remember watching that live. Like I was I was young in college at that time. I remember watching it on my TV. and you guys were in your you were your bright orange like OSU uniform and it was so hot. It was in Austin. The first time the national championship was held in Austin instead of Hayward. ⁓
speaker-2: Yeah, yeah. It was cool too, 'cause I think, you know, when you know, Jess was Jess and I both were at the top of our our game thus far at that time and ⁓ just really cool to watch or just see how that race unplays when you have two people just at their fittest and and we really push each other and I think we ran, you know, a championship record that still stands to this day. So ⁓ yeah, it is it's cool to c look back on that. But then also like how far we've come since then. I mean she He's got multiple medal surname and I have American records. So yeah, it's pretty special.
speaker-0: I mean, you both have accomplished so much since that time in Austin in in twenty nineteen. I mean, we're talking seven years ago when that race happened. I mean, it's crazy how fast time truly does fly. And that was kind of a weird point because that was like that was the last year where, you know, before the pandemic, before COVID and all that stuff, that was of course your transition in the into the the professional ranks where you you signed with Bowerman and I can't imagine what it was like during that time, you know, being a professional athlete and having to go through that. Then you left Ballerman in 2021 to go to Union Athletics. You were there for about three or four years, and then you decide to leave Union Athletics and start training with Craig alone. So I'm curious, what was that shifting around like for you. Did you see some benefits with it? Did you see some negatives with it? Cause I'm sure there's there's both s similar or there's both negatives and consequ and positive that go with it.
speaker-2: Yeah, I mean I think there's always times in your life where you can learn for better or for worse and I think a lot of those experiences I was learning. I was very, very new to the pro scene when I joined Bowerman Track Club and I got to learn from some incredible athletes like, you know, Emily Infeld and Shelby Hulahan and Kirsten Schweitzer and and so I really got to be kind of a sponge and absorb all of their knowledge and all of their wisdom and ⁓ I think it a lot of times when ⁓ I don't feel like a situation is serving me anymore in terms of training. I think it's hard to ⁓ stick in it just because I think our career is so short and we don't wanna, you know, waste time and ⁓ I definitely felt like with Bowerman it just wasn't quite the right fit. I mean I'm definitely more of an eight hundred, fifteen hundred runner and ⁓ the training situation just didn't didn't suit me and so I made a change and and that worked for a while until it didn't and ⁓ I think a lot of times, you know it there's beauty in like sticking things out and and really trying to make them work and ⁓ and being able to I don't know get through the hard times and and the you know the valleys but I also think too when there's a certain pattern that's a keep happening and for me it was a lot of injuries, I think that's something that okay is maybe we we should look into more and ⁓ I really just when I left union and wanted to join Craig ⁓ full time I really just wanted to stop being in All the time. It's really hard to keep consistency and compete and train at this level when I'm taking months off for massive bone injuries. So ⁓ yeah, I think every decision I've made has been very calculated and has had a lot of thought to it and it's taken a lot of deliberation, and I'm not a rash, irrational person when I when it comes to making decisions. ⁓ But I think every decision has been timely and something that I really needed some kind of change. I needed at the moment to yeah, make a better situation for myself.
speaker-0: So who approached who? Was it you going to Craig saying, Hey, come coach me? Was it him saying, I want to coach you? Like, you know, him writing the workouts and all that stuff? Like how did those conversations start between you two realizing like, all right, this could be a better scenario for me long term by training under you?
speaker-2: Yeah, I mean he wanted he wanted to from the get go. I think Craig's always been a a sounding board since the start of of my career and I've always bounced ideas off of him and I've asked him for advice and and whatnot. So ⁓ he's always been kind of like a pseudo coach to me, just hasn't really written my training and I think when, you know, my last bone injury in twenty ninety four leading into the Olympic trials happened, I think there was kind of a breaking point where I was in a low spot and I think him just kind of coming in and being like, we gotta cut this cycle, like you can't keep doing this. This is like, you know, destroying your mental health, but then also, you know, you're not able also destroying your body too, and you're not able to to really string together consistency. So yeah, I think it was like a a a very calculated effort on our part to keep me healthy. And ⁓ you know Craig has been experimenting for the past four years before this with his own training. and kind of seeing what works and stuff and I really liked his philosophy and his ideas and ⁓ I was kind of really willing to try something brand new at that point. So yeah I would say that it definitely paid off last year and I'm just excited to keep building.
speaker-1: I feel like you're the beginning of a movement of a lot of women runners who are training either by themselves or with their their partners, just with like helping us pacing. And it's cool to see. I'm so glad that it's working out for you and Craig and it's and it's been a good fit. ⁓ I'm curious, do you is that your preferred way? Like do you always work out alone or or just with Craig? Or do you ever link up with any of the other professional runners who also reside in Portland?
speaker-2: I I typically work out on my own. I ⁓ I do a lot of easy runs like Chrisha Schweitzer and and Emily Infeld live here in Portland and I also have several other friends who are training for their own marathons or whatever ⁓ here that I linked up for easy runs with. But ⁓ in terms of workouts it's just me and Craig and I honestly kinda prefer it that way. I think there were a lot of times where my workouts kind of fit into whatever the rest of the team was doing and that resulted in a lot. Of injuries for myself for just having workouts that didn't really make a whole lot of sense. So ⁓ right now I'm I'm enjoying being on my own and being able to control my day-to-day, and I get to do exactly what's best for me on the day. And I have a amazing training partner and Craig, and and he's great, and that's kind of really all I need right now. I think maybe in the future there'll be a time where I'm kind of craving more of an intime environment. ⁓ but for right now it's been just really nice to be on my and I've kind of been ⁓ a lone soldier for for many years before so ⁓ I I yeah I don't really mind it that way.
speaker-0: Well, outside of, you know, training on your own now, you're training w with Craig, the other big news is is after seven years you left Nike and have signed with Hoka. What were those conversations like, you know, discussing a new brand deal after being with a brand for for so long and that's really all you knew when you were going into the professional scene was Nike this, Nike that, but now you're a Hoka athlete. So what's that been like?
speaker-2: Yeah, I think it was it was a very difficult decision, I will say that. ⁓ I did really enjoy being a Nike athlete and ⁓ being part of that brand. But I think when it came to making this decision to change Hoka, it was a much bigger and much more like lasting ⁓ picture beyond just my competitive years and of what kind of legacy I I want to leave and I think it was really exciting when I got to meet the Hoka president and hear from her that, you know, they're really trying to make ⁓ a big push to have more of a pre presence on the track and field stage leading into the LA Olympics and ⁓ they kind of wanted me to be the start of that. And ⁓ yeah, I think it just feels really cool to have brands view you that highly and really want to elevate you and ⁓ have and vice versa have you elevate their brand. And I think it was just an opportunity for I guess my family in terms of Craig and an opportunity for him to be ⁓ part of a team and part of and being a coach of of a you know professional team and ⁓ yeah there were just a lot of a lot of aspects to this that I think gave us security and also ⁓ just opportunity beyond the next four years for me. So yeah it's and I think also too it's sometimes in you know the beginning of of my career I felt like I needed to really learn from a lot of people and be with a brand where you know I'm at the bottom of the tone and pole and I really need to be elevated by the rest of them and and now I think I'm in this opportunity where I'm entering probably the latter half of my career and and the years where I'm hoping to you know hit my peak and ⁓ be able to kind of build something from the ground up and something that's never been done at HOCA before was like just a very exciting opportunity.
speaker-1: Yeah, well you've certainly proven yourself as one of the best, not not only one of the best in the US, but one of the best in the world at your craft. ⁓ so it's been super cool to watch you join Hoka and pave, you know, your own path in the sport and do what's best for you. ⁓ I am curious now that you've been with Hoka for a little bit, how are you liking all the gear? What shoes do you like to train in? Like what should all the Sinclair fans out there know who like to, you know, use your expertise for their own ⁓
speaker-2: Yeah, it's been honestly a really easy transition. I think, ⁓ they have such an extensive footwear collection that I just kind of easily and seamlessly was able to replace my, you know, old rotation of shoes with their new rotation. So ⁓ yeah, I train in the Arahis and the Cliptons, those are my two go-tos and for workouts. I like the Rockets and this yellow X-3s. and I actually am really enjoying their foot their ⁓ spikes as well. And I think that was also a really cool opportunity as I'm working pretty closely with ⁓ their footboard team to kind of tweak their spike to really make it perfect and ⁓ that's been a fun project to be on and kind of something that I didn't really get to do with with Nike because I wasn't one I wasn't ever their sample size and two that just wasn't an opportunity that was ever presented to me. So yeah it's been fun to really kind of make this like perfect middle distance spike with them and ⁓ yeah be a part of yeah that
speaker-0: Well it sounds like
speaker-1: Yeah, well as you've ⁓ mentioned and I also heard you say in an interview after the New Balance Indoor Grand Prix that Hoka's building a team up in Portland. Do you have any updates on that and what that is going to look like for you? Yeah.
speaker-2: Yeah, it's still in the works and ⁓ you know, I think I can't really speak on too much of it, but what I will say is that, you know, we're really trying to create something that will last and something that's gonna be not only ⁓ high performing in terms of, you know, buying for medals at at the the team and at or sorry, at world championships and Olympic Games and creating a team like that, but also just a a good group of people and ⁓ a a nice place to train with you know really good athletes but also good people so ⁓ Craig and I have been part of a lot of the decisions ⁓ if not all the decisions and really trying to curate the best we can ⁓ and I think that's we're taking our time with the process because like I said we really want this thing to to last and to stick and not just be rushed. So ⁓ yeah we're still in the works with figuring out all logistics But yes, it will be here in Portland and ⁓ things are definitely becoming more real and ⁓ we're definitely putting a lot more pieces together. So I'm really excited when yeah, everything will be together and we'll be able to announce everything.
speaker-0: Well, I'm glad that Hoka is really working closely with you guys and trying to, you know, work this out and trying to make it a real thing. And I know, you know, that's gonna be an important thing for for you to be able to have training partners around you. But also the nice thing about Hoka is all these events you get to surround yourself with and being around so many great high school athletes, collegiate athletes, obviously pro athletes, Hoka Summer Mile Club, you got the Hoka Festival of Miles, you know, are you excited to be part of those and be involved? With those 'cause they are I'm sure you probably watched some of them when you were in high school, it's like, Wow, that is something I wanna be a part of someday.
speaker-2: ⁓ yeah, totally. I mean, I think those that's one of my favorite things to do is be involved with the younger generation of athletes in any way I can. So very looking very much looking forward to any opportunity I have with Hoka, like the Festival of Miles and ⁓ I know they do a lot of other like fun activations so throughout the year. So yeah, I'm really looking forward to being able to be more a part of that.
speaker-0: Well, that's awesome that you want to be more involved and you know, again, that just tells us a lot about you as a person and you know, wanting to help the next generation of athletes. But for yourself in a year, again, as I mentioned, no world championship and no Olympic Games, you know, we're seeing some weird stuff. Delil Mohammed, Ford Hurdler, she's racing the eight hundred, you know. Athletes like are just doing all sorts of different stuff. Is that something that's been on your mind this year in twenty twenty six, whether it's, you know, doing something different on the track or heck? Maybe even the roads if that's even floated your mind.
speaker-2: ⁓ no, definitely still on the track. I mean the furthest I'd go on the road is a mile right now. So yeah, I I I definitely wanna do more eight hundreds this year. I haven't I think I haven't really gotten enough opportunities to really have that eight hundred where I feel like, you know, I've hit my limit. So ⁓ yeah, I'm looking forward to doing more eight hundreds this year. Obviously the fifteen hundred. ⁓ but I think like for me it's it feels kind of like business as usual in terms of like the fi doing the fifteen and the eight hundred, ⁓ just because I felt like I haven't really fully maximized that for myself and this is another year where work to do that ⁓ and just get more experience on the international level that will help me in twenty ninety seven, twenty ninety eight. So nothing out of the ordinary for me. I'm not gonna be doing a five K. I'm not gonna be doing anything longer on the
speaker-0: So you're telling me you do not want to do twelve and a half laps or twenty laps on the track?
speaker-2: Maybe one day. I mean I definitely am curious what I could do in a five K. Just not curious enough yet to try it out. So ⁓ definitely gonna see for the fifteen hundred and the eight hundreds this year. But ⁓ yeah, maybe in maybe in twenty twenty nine after an Olympic year ⁓ I might be feeling, I don't know, motivated to run a five K, but we'll see.
speaker-0: I'm genuinely curious though what you could do in a four hundred. ⁓
speaker-2: ⁓ honestly I don't train like that. ⁓ I I ran fifty-five in high school. I don't know if I could run much faster than that. Maybe like a couple seconds if I trained for it, but probably not a four hundred. Honestly, that that that at the pro level it looks absolutely brutal. So I think well six eight hundred is
speaker-0: Yeah, it sounds fine by with me. I mean four hundred is a really hard, hard lap around.
speaker-2: Maybe. I mean, yeah, if there's an opportunity that presents itself and it makes sense, ⁓ at a meet, sure, maybe. That sounds that sounds like a fun change up. It sounds way more fun than running a five K on the track.
speaker-0: I would would hundred percent agree with that. So ⁓ USATF Road Mile Championships are coming up this year as well. You know, is that something that you are gonna be interested in doing too?
speaker-2: ⁓ I actually don't think I will be there, unfortunately. I know I I was hoping to, but with ⁓ so the World Roadrunning Championships is literally the day I'm getting married. ⁓ so I wouldn't be able to do that anyways. And honestly, at this point I'm pretty much in a base phase. It kind of felt a little bit too rushed ⁓ after indoor season to do that. So we'll not be there, but yeah, I definitely in in the future, I mean I love the road miles, so I'll be doing a lot more in the in the future. Yeah.
speaker-0: Well, the wedding is set for September nineteenth. What other details can you tell us about it?
speaker-2: Yeah, I mean, it's it's happening. I yeah. No, ⁓ I've yeah, I've been do obviously doing a lot of wedding wedding planning this year and I feel like I'm probably like eighty five percent of the days planned. ⁓ still a couple more or like one bigger detail and then a few more s minor details, but ⁓ for the most part, yeah, it's all coming together and it's feeling very real and ⁓ it's It's gonna be to have all of our closest family and friends here in Portland. And I think there's a lot of people that are coming that have never been out to the Pacific Northwest. So I'm really excited for people to see that and hope they get the chance to get to explore other parts of the co of the state.
speaker-1: Well, I'll admit I was stalking your Instagram before this interview and you posted a picture of a wedding dress that was so stunning. I know it's probably not what you're wearing on your wedding day, but it was so beautiful.
speaker-2: Well, that's definitely not what I'm wearing. That would be absolutely crazy to to post that online, especially since Craig follows me out in serum. it was my second choice, I will say that. So so
speaker-1: Well I'm excited to see what the one you did pick looks like.
speaker-2: ⁓ thank you.
speaker-0: So as we get through this year and moving forward into, you know, twenty twenty seven, twenty twenty eight, next year, Beijing of course, LA twenty twenty eight, I know both of those are on your radar and this year in particular is kind of like a build up going into you know, those championship races. You know, what does the preparation look like for you with whether it's this year, you know, the follow up next year in twenty twenty seven and even twenty twenty eight for the the LA games?
speaker-2: Yeah, I mean I would say the preparation began began last year. ⁓ I think, you know, as soon as one championship ends, or like at least as soon as the Olympic Games in twenty ninety four end, it's like the whole new cycle starts. And you know, there's phases of the cycle. It's not always intensity all the time. But ⁓ yeah, I mean, I'm full in the I guess the the build up to to LA twenty twenty eight. I think everything is kind of pointing towards that way. So It is far away, but also it isn't. Like time flies and the things come up a lot quicker than you're anticipating. So yeah, LA twenty eight is always in the back of my mind. I really want to be there representing ⁓ the United States on a home Olympic Game. So ⁓ everything I do is yeah, is in preparation for that.
speaker-0: And if there's an Olympic Games that you want a medal at, it is LA twenty twenty eight. The competition of course is gonna be electric. Faith Kip Yagon, you know, your fellow countrywoman, Nikki Hilts, you got Jess Hole in the mix as well. I mean, and I know there's gonna be s a lot more fast collegiate athletes that are gonna be on the come up too that are also preparing for LA twenty twenty eight. So we are certainly looking forward to see how you progress over this next year, ye two years or so and hopefully you make that that team USA and represent the red, white, and blue. So as we actually end things here on this episode of pending ratification, we're gonna shift gears to a lighter thing. We're gonna it's gonna call records under review, where we're gonna ask you rapid fire type questions, and they're very random questions too.
speaker-2: Don't wear socks in your spikes.
speaker-0: So so me and Maddie have both been able to come up with them, but I'm gonna ask you if you were to pick a dog that best reflects you, what is that dog and why?
speaker-2: ⁓ my gosh. I think probably like a Rottweiler, I say this because Rottweilers are like kinda scary and intimidating from the outside. Like they like I'm probably not gonna r approach a Rottweiler that I don't know. ⁓ but then you get to know them and they're actually really sweet. So I would say like I have maybe like a harder like outside facade, but I actually have like a really big heart and ⁓ can be really sweet at times.
speaker-0: So you're nice off the track. You j you you you not friendly at all. Not not friendly at all. That's not that d don't mess with the Rottweiler. That's what you definitely do wanna do.
speaker-2: Exactly.
speaker-1: Okay, next question is what would your friends roast you for?
speaker-2: ⁓ my gosh. Oof. I don't know. I mean, probably a lot of things, but I'm trying to think. probably just like I'm I ⁓ can be very like particular about things and just very type A. and I feel like they would probably roast me about like, you know, everything's gotta be in line for me to to do whatever it is, so
speaker-0: What celebrity would you want to have dinner with dead or alive?
speaker-2: celebrity. I probably Serena Williams. I've always looked up to her, so yeah, more like a sports celebrity, but
speaker-0: Hey, her husband's heavily involved in Atlos, so I mean that's that's that's really cool. So
speaker-2: Yeah. Good to hear her there. Right. Right.
speaker-1: If you were an emoji, which emoji would you be? If you can describe it, best you can.
speaker-2: Yeah, I'm trying to think. Something I don't know, something like sassy, like I don't like maybe like the smirking one. That would probably be it. Yeah.
speaker-0: I don't even what would that look like? All the s all the spurk one. I was like I I was like I didn't quite understand. Sure. Yeah. Let's just go with that one. Yeah. 'Cause I know exactly what you two are talking about being the the tech savvy that I am. So well Well our show is called Pending Ratification, Sinclair and
speaker-2: Like the one where the kinda like
speaker-1: ⁓ yeah, I know it won.
speaker-0: One of the things that I asked my guests at the end of each episode, and we've been doing it the last couple of seasons, is, you know, what's a a world record you could set in non running related because, you know, pending means you have to wait, ratification, world records go through a ratifying process. So, Sinclair, what would be that non running world record attempt would you want to break?
speaker-2: ⁓ probably sleeping. I can sleep a lot.
speaker-0: Like hours on end or what are we talking like
speaker-2: It's just I can go to bed at ten PM and wake up at nine AM the next day, probably every single day. I could sleep for eleven hours a night and probably still need more sleep.
speaker-0: Do you experience this more when you're having to travel to different countries and having to adjust at different time zones?
speaker-2: Yeah, definitely I mean, yeah, ⁓ time time change is different. But I mean, even when I am on a break and I'm not even training hard, I still can sleep. Like I'm just I don't know, I'm just a good sleeper.
speaker-0: Wow, I would love to have that talent. Happening. I find myself having to wake up in the middle of the night way too often and then catch myself w waking up early in the morning and then taking a random nap in the middle of the day. So but well
speaker-1: Yeah, it's way better than the ⁓ than the opposite. It's brutal.
speaker-0: That is a f great talent you have there, Sinclair. So well, really appreciate your time hopping on here with us and you know getting to learn about you, who you are, away from the sport, and you're sharing your story from you know being born in Indianapolis, living in Orlando, going to Oklahoma State, and now of course residing in Oregon. ⁓ it's truly been really fun to to watch your journey. ⁓ and we really appreciate your time hopping on here on this episode of pending ratification. So good luck in the rest of 2026. We look forward to seeing the success that you have the rest of this outdoor season. So thanks again.
speaker-2: Thanks so much. It was really nice talking to you guys today.
speaker-0: Hey everyone, thanks for tuning in to this episode of Pending Ratification.
speaker-1: If you enjoyed this episode and want to tune into more, be sure to check out runnerspace.com or subscribe on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
speaker-0: I am your co-host Keenan Gray. And I This episode was produced and edited by Ben McGrath and Ian Turpid. Catch you on the next episode of Pending Ratification.
speaker-1: I'm your co-host Maddie Mooney.
speaker-2: Records is no more!
