Payge Cooper: The Unwritten Rules Every Working Musician Needs | Ep. 18

Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Turn page. What's up, baby? How
TurnThePAYGE: Well sorry. What is that today?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: you got where you at in the world right now?
TurnThePAYGE: in LA, still in Los Angeles, ain't never going nowhere.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: And this is home now. This this is
TurnThePAYGE: This is this has been home ten years, man.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Wow, where are you originally from?
TurnThePAYGE: I'm from Atlanta.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right. So you got out here ten years ago.
TurnThePAYGE: beautiful. Mm-hmm.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: And this is it.
TurnThePAYGE: Yes, sir, man. Me and my bros, me, Devin, Ray, we all moved out here kinda together around the same time and Sean Wright too, yeah. We was all out here together.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Love. So you still got family that's in Atlanta?
TurnThePAYGE: My mom, my best friends, my brothers, yeah, most of my most of my homes is in the A.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Got it. So did you move out here primarily just for music or that was kind of like the the thing of like, okay, I'll continue to do this while you're here, but also and doing some other endeavors.
TurnThePAYGE: so yeah, primarily music. I started in Atlanta doing doing a lot of touring and playing for a bunch of artists and I just felt like I had reached a plateau in in Atlanta.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Okay.
TurnThePAYGE: Like there was there was no further up that I could go. And you know, I mentioned Devin earlier, me and Devin best friends. We've been in the game a long time together. So he was like, bruh, I think it's room for us in LA. I think we should just move.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: And he had got a call to come out here and and came back and was like, I think we should move, man. And then, you know, some
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: things happen. Some things happen and I was like, Brad, you know what? Let's just try something different. Yeah,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Okay.
TurnThePAYGE: so
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: And then got out here and started taking over the world.
TurnThePAYGE: And got out here and and really earned my stripes, bro. you know how it is moving to a new city and you know, knowing people and everybody being like, yo, I got you, I got you. But sometimes those opportunities don't come as fast as you want. So
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: I started to link in with 1500 and my God Mars after church, Joe Green with Unplugged, and we used to have a spot in Atlanta called Apache Cafe. And
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Okay.
TurnThePAYGE: that's where all the musicians, where all the people would go to play. And Unplugged really reminded me of that as well as, you know, my like I said, my got married and them being a part of it. So I came to Joel Green and was like, bro, I would love to play. I would love to put together a band for you. And
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, okay.
TurnThePAYGE: yeah, just started with him and just started hitting the club scene super hard, trying to let people know I was in town and ready to work.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah. What's that transition like though? Because you were a big fish in in Atlanta. You say that's kind of like the peak, right? I've you couldn't go
TurnThePAYGE: Uh-huh.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: any further. So now when you pivot to a place like Los Angeles where everybody out here is phenomenal, right? This isn't a shortage
TurnThePAYGE: Yeah, yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: of good musicians out here, but you has still figured out a way to navigate the space. So walk me through the journey from Atlanta. to now and and how you started getting your footing and recognition and meeting everybody. Like what was that journey for you?
TurnThePAYGE: so coming from Atlanta to LA, it was it was definitely different and and kind of weird. Like you said, you moved to a place where everybody, everybody can play. Everybody's a big fish. And one thing that was very eye-opening to me, my first night in LA, my friend picked me up. We were going to meet up with Devin and we met up with Devin at a shed. And I met people who, you know, weren't from my culture who weren't. from my space that could like really play. Like that was the first night I met Andy Pratter. And he was i I just wasn't ready. I wasn't ready for that. You know, just
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Okay.
TurnThePAYGE: other guys, can't remember all of their names, but just other guys from other cultures who who really understand, you know, our playing. And coming from Atlanta and touring and doing all of that stuff to coming to LA where like Casa ad like they don't know who you are. Like What gig
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: you done? It it really don't matter. So I moved here knowing people, but going out and folks being like, yeah, who are you? Like, so that
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: was what that was different for me. And then I used to play with Dietrich Hatton and
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm-hmm.
TurnThePAYGE: Marcus Hodge, who has produced a bunch of his records and MD'd a lot of his LA stuff. he we did a gig with Dietrich where I learned Every tomb, like I played with Dre for years. I knew we weren't gonna do these tones at all, but I learned every single tone he sent me, man. And that just turned into an opportunity to go on the road with Brandy. And when and LA is a really like quick moving place. Like people, people will call you like, hey, what you doing, what you doing for the next couple of months? Bro, I got these rehearsals for the last three days. I need you to get to SIR. So it was really kind of like that.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: I just got a call and a friend of mine actually got the call before me and I really wanted him to do the gig. Like so I didn't want to play drums. I didn't want to do anything. I was just like here because Marcus called me and it's like, yo, that's what's up. And Marcus
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: asked me to get on the drums and I played the first three songs down without hearing them, just because those arrangements at that time hadn't changed from, you know, when Rico played them or when Dede played them. So I mean that goes
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: So
TurnThePAYGE: into saying. you know, always study. You never know when you'll get an opportunity to play for the artist that you study. And
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: you already know all the stuff because you've been listening to it, you've been studying. So that just turned into me going on the road with Brandy, me doing a solo with Brandy, Brandy posting it, calling me the snare
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Wow.
TurnThePAYGE: king, and then coming back to LA and everybody's like, man, Paige. So, you know, that's kind
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Got it.
TurnThePAYGE: of been the transition from Atlanta to LA.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: For sure. But your work ethic, it sounds like was always there, right? When you moved from Atlanta to LA, you weren't trying to like figure out how to get to it. You were just figuring out the lay of the land and how to get to it in the LA way. Am I understanding? Okay.
TurnThePAYGE: Yeah. Yeah, in a i in the LA way, but also, you know, it's a it's a lot of it's a lot of different people, it's a lot of different MDs, it's a lot of, you know, different opportunities. It just depends on where you want to go as well as you stepping into a new city that people already have their people. They already have
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: their crews. They so you know, it's it's more so not about like getting it in a LA way, but I feel like everybody gets an opportunity at some point. Like you make, you make the right relationship, you make the right friendship. Everybody get busy. You get that one call and you can't treat it like, man, I got the call. Like, nah, you need to treat it like this the last call you ever gonna get in your life. And you
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Wow.
TurnThePAYGE: need to, you need to show up with your heart, with your, with your skill, with, with everything intact. And that's just kind of how. things start to snowball to a different level.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right. So you you've pretty much been very intentional about that though. One thing I've I've noticed about you is that you've kind of always been you. You know, you've never
TurnThePAYGE: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: deviated from anything in that realm. You never got caught up in the LA hype. Page has always been Page.
TurnThePAYGE: Yeah, man. I I love that. When I got married, I took my wife home and she met a lot of my bros and they was like, Yeah, Paige ain't changed in twenty years.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Ha ha ha.
TurnThePAYGE: And I and I have. I will say I've matured, I will say I've grown in different spaces. But yeah, I've I've always planned on being me and never changing myself, being the most Atlanta person that lives in LA, you know, but I've never I've never really respected that out of people, you know.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: if you gotta if you got a fake or front to be be something else to fit in, then that just, I mean, you know, you gonna change with the wind. I'd rather people know, you know, that I'm solid and I'm a brick. I'm a house built out of brick and I ain't gonna just blow over because the wind blows this way. You know, a friend of mine
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: told me when I first got into the game, he said, Man, I know I can trust you. In any room. And I was like, why? You know, why can't you trust me, bro? And he was like, Because it don't matter what nobody do. You're not gonna, if everybody doing it, you it don't matter. You still ain't gonna do it. And I've just kind of held true to that and tried to be that in this industry. People get caught up in drugs, people get caught up in whatever, man, scandals just because they wanna follow this person down the wrong road when you know you shouldn't need to be there anyway.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right. So that's always been something very important to you. Just making sure you
TurnThePAYGE: Mm-hmm.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: stay true. How did you cultivate that though? Because that's not easy. Right. You you do move to a new area. You you are trying to get in and trying to get involved, trying to pay your bills.
TurnThePAYGE: Well you're you know the file and tell you.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: You know, that's that's a a massive thing when you move to a more expensive space. But staying what we're saying is staying true to that essence. Did you have a friend? Was God primary? Were you really close to your family? Like what was the thing that kind of kept you grounded in that in that space?
TurnThePAYGE: Like story and what's the one saying to you like that? Like what's the thing that's gonna take you down in I'm really close to God and I grew up kinda different. I've always been cool, but I haven't always got along with everybody. and everybody hasn't always got along with me, you know? And
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: So
TurnThePAYGE: I've had to spend a lot of time by myself or alone. Or cultivating, all right, well, this is how I move. And does that fit in with this? Does that work with this? You know, man, sometimes maybe that's too much. So I feel like what helped me to cultivate that space is just me having that time alone, me not being able to, you know, and I feel like that's God. I feel like God puts puts a lot of things in place that we don't realize until later. but
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: yeah, I just never could and never was the guy who fit in with everybody. So it just made me like, well, I guess I just don't fit in. And it's school.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right. Right.
TurnThePAYGE: And it you know, it's like it's not it's not like people are like, bro, he lame. Like I he don't fit in, man, cause he weird. It's just, hey, I I I moved to the beat of my own drum, bruh. So, you know.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: So
TurnThePAYGE: And that's got a lot to do with Atlanta too. Atlanta like that. Like it's a lot of people who do a lot of things, but they all kind of just move to the own beat of their own drama. So once you find that, you just, that's what it is.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right. I mean you still move it to the the video on drum, but you've you've found a way to gain the respect from a wide variety of musical directors, right? This isn't just
TurnThePAYGE: Well
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: a one person that believed in you and only caused you. You know, you've been able to cross pollinate not just from the musician community, but also just also the the MD space. So how have you stayed
TurnThePAYGE: I'm not just doing the okay things. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: moving the grooving to to page, but also you you have to conform, right? Because we are submitting ourselves to someone else's vision. They're hiring us to just execute
TurnThePAYGE: I don't think
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: that vision. So was there was that always smooth for you? Have you had to learn okay, maybe I should chill out here versus like what what what's that process like?
TurnThePAYGE: I've I've had to learn that the hard way. because I'm very I'm very knowledgeable and I'm I'm very strong minded on what a vision should be like. I'm an MD, I'm a I'm a drummer, I'm a producer. When you call me to play drums, I'm gonna learn everything. I'm gonna take my time. I'm gonna I'm gonna figure out how I could make myself sound exactly like this. and with some MDs
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: this work, some MDs it hasn't. And I've I've been at a lot of different spaces with MDs where man, I think I'm I'm killing. And they point one thing out, and it's like, All right, cool. Now I gotta figure that out. Now I gotta hear why why they're hearing that. You know, I worked with Adam one time and
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: I had a HHX symbol. You know how they just bend and warp at a certain point. We love it as drummers. He was like, That symbol's
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: washi. He was like, That's washi. I was like, nah, no
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: man, it's amazing. He was like, nah, he went and got a fast crack, play this one. And I had to get into
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Okay.
TurnThePAYGE: that mindset and I've I've I've over the years started to love trying to get into people's mindset. What what are they thinking? How are they hearing it? You know, I worked with an MD and man, I wanted to use all the sounds, all the triplets. He was like, no, I had the
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: session. I put them on the drums and and got a call from my big homie later and was just like, yeah, man, like, nah. Everybody ain't the same. Every MD isn't the same. You're not gonna walk into every opportunity the same way. So you have to humble yourself to say, okay, I'm working with this person today. They want it this way, you know,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: or I'm working with this person today. So how I've been able to like just cultivate these relationships or work with these MDs is be willing to learn, be willing to listen, especially like in the space that I'm at now. it's just you learn lessons, you fall on your face and it's okay. We all do it. You fall on your face and then you get taught these lessons and then you're like, okay, you know what? I can move like this, I could I could do it like this, I could back off of this, you know. So
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure. You you find a balance to to to make sure the vision is is good. You know,
TurnThePAYGE: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: because it's it's really not our vision. We're just the person helping the vision.
TurnThePAYGE: Exactly. Exactly. And I had to learn that, man. We put our we put 20 something, 15, something 10 years into this. You know, so we all show
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: up with our heart of like, nah, this is it. I've been watching this person and this person and they doing it like this. I need to do it like this. And you start to realize
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: that you're only a piece of the vision. And the MD is put there
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: to put together the vision, but even it's not their vision, it's the artist's vision. So they're you start to realize that it's just it's a lot of different points in here. You're just one piece to a puzzle. So you need
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: to make sure that your piece is tight and that you're listening to the person who's putting the puzzle together.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right. That that's a that's a massive lesson though, because I feel like a lot of musicians struggle to learn that. I mean, especially the the newer cats, you know, they're they they're just new, right? And it's no fault
TurnThePAYGE: Well.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: of their own. They just haven't been familiarized with that level of responsibility. But what how did you learn to appreciate that vision, right? Because like it to your point, musicians are very emotional to their gift, right? They've carved out
TurnThePAYGE: But
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: a decade plus. Of perfecting their craft, and then they finally get to this position and like, okay, great, I'm here. Now's the time to do X, Y, and Z. And then to your point, you fall on your face. So you're getting feedback,
TurnThePAYGE: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: you're getting criticisms, you may end up getting let go, you know, but that's
TurnThePAYGE: Yeah, one.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: all okay. That's all a part of the industry. That that's no fault to anybody, it's just what happens. But you do have to take a step back at some
TurnThePAYGE: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: moments and say, okay, this might be me, or I might need to pivot here and whatever, right? How do you learn that without quitting?
TurnThePAYGE: Nah, gonna be honest, man, mentorship matters. Big bros, big bros matters, the right big bros matter. You know, I've had a lot of big homies in my life that have taught me a lot of different lessons. and it's been it's been amazing. They got me to a certain place. but I can say when I started working with Brian, you know, through his BFM consultations and him becoming my brother and and him really like just helping me. A lot of the times that I have, because here's the thing. We come in the game thinking we know what it is outside looking in. Right. And so
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: we approach it like, well, I've watched this person do it like this. So this is how it should go. having having a big bro and someone I can call and be like, yo, B, like I'm I'm going through this. I'm feeling this. Like what what what have you done? Have you dealt with this? You at the top of the game, man.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: Have you dealt with this? And then me to hear from him, no, we all deal with it. It's just things we, you know, we don't talk about. Like I'm not about to go on the internet and tell everything, you know. So it's like being able to have somebody that I can call and realize, they've been through this too. And this is a part of the industry. And Back to what you were saying. It's not my vision. I'm so done
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: ho. I've got look I'm doing everything. that's so crazy. And then you get there, they're like,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right, right.
TurnThePAYGE: yeah, no. That's great. You sound amazing.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, all that.
TurnThePAYGE: You sound you sound great. No, we don't we don't want that. We want this. Like it's
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yep.
TurnThePAYGE: like being able to be that chameleon and then being able to take that in. In that moment, like let's just speak about in that moment. In that moment, you have to be able to take that in and be like, yo, cool, great. And give it, give them whatever. And then go home and then
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes.
TurnThePAYGE: call your big home. And be like, hey man, I'm feeling. And then they again, purpose of having the right big homie give you some advice
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: to keep you working, keep you making money, keep you eating, because that's what it's about. Like.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm-hmm.
TurnThePAYGE: I came into this game on the tour of world and gig. And if anybody asked me what you want to do, man, yo, I wanna play these drums. I I rarely thought about the money side of this. I rarely thought about, no,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, that's fair.
TurnThePAYGE: I'm trying to feed my family. So like having the right big homie to f to talk to and him be like, hey, bro, you hit a you here to pay this high LA rent. That's it. That's it.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right, right, right, right, right, right. Yeah. Yep.
TurnThePAYGE: Conform, give what they need, you know.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes, sir.
TurnThePAYGE: Well
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: That's massive though, because you have to make a decision, right? Do you want to just solely be a good drummer or do you want to be able to provide for yourself and buy a home and and get married and take care of her and do all these these real life things minus the job? You know, that's that's massive.
TurnThePAYGE: Do you wanna do you wanna be the one call guy? I called him. He was he was cool. Or do you wanna be that guy that they call and be like, yo, bro, I know, I know I can work with him. That's that's what I
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: work on all the time. Like I had a a great amount of friends who would call me for certain things, but when it came to that big call, I'm like not a been the guy to call, you know? So it's
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mmm.
TurnThePAYGE: like it's like understanding why. And a lot of times it was because I was so gun off. I got the call. Instead of just being like, all right, what do you
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Bro, that that's real.
TurnThePAYGE: need? How can I serve you? How can I help you to get this vision done? Now I do have some things. I would love to do some ideas. Does that work for you? It don't work for you? Okay, it don't work for you. Let's let's figure it out, you know.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, yeah. Bro, I think you nailed it, man. I think that's being of service. I think that's that's the real trick. Is it seems like you and I had a very similar story where I wasn't getting calls playing drums. I was getting calls to tech or running playback. And but all my homies were the guys who are the MDs for all these accounts. Like they're they're my best friends.
TurnThePAYGE: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Eventually, bro, I just asked the question, what do I have to do? Like what what what are you guys not seeing? To feel comfortable calling me for this position. And it has told me the truth. Cool. You know what I'm saying? So now we get to it, but it's it's really a testament to what you're saying right now of being of service. I had my way of thinking, but that shit don't matter. It's like no one's paying you to think, they're paying you to execute whatever they thought of and talked about amongst the table. So
TurnThePAYGE: uh-huh.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: For you, man, you you've played with so many artists, right? So many MDs, been on so many stages, and it's not just one genre, right? You've covered a a wide variety of genres. How do you prepare for that? Because that's not easy, right? We can always find the cat that's good at trap. Are we good at R and B or good at country? But coming across, and you use the word chameleon, which I think is a phenomenal way of describing you. How do you how do you prepare for that? Because that's not easy to do.
TurnThePAYGE: It can be developed later, but speaking of my personal testimony, I just came up in a different space in Atlanta. Like I people don't know I I went to Atlanta Institute of Music. So I'm a graduate of Atlanta too Institute of Music. So like reading and like rock class and jazz class and all of that stuff. Like I had teachers that were really hard on me and hated that I was just the black gospel drummer. They hated that. And they would say it.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: right.
TurnThePAYGE: And it was slightly racist, but they would say it and and it would piss me off, but it would make me go work. And it would make me go
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: like, all right, let me let me try to work out this double pedal or let me let me go r learn this rock tune. And then I grew up playing with a group called Reverend Pearl Blue and the Temple Soul, who played Led Zeppelin and Jimi Hendrix and all of this different
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm-hmm.
TurnThePAYGE: stuff. so I'm really a rock drummer. To me, I love to play rock and punk. Like, and I get
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Okay.
TurnThePAYGE: called for RB or hip-hop. Like, but the I if I could get called for like a blink 182 tomorrow, I'd be out. And nobody, I ask my wife all the time, can I mohawk out my hair? She's like, no. like that's that's what I want to do. Just be a rock star, you know? so
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right, right.
TurnThePAYGE: but in my preparing. for any gig, this is any gig, man. I have a notebook. I don't know where it is right now. I think it's still in the car from my gig this weekend, but I have a notebook, bro. And I chart,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: I shorthand chart everything out. it helps me to read it, it helps me to learn what's going on in the song, pick it apart for real, for real. Like I just shorthand chart it out.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: All right, this this many bars. It's open here. It's a groove change here. It's a hi-hat change here. So
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: that's where I start is charting it out, reading it. And I I just become so like absorbed in whatever I'm doing. Like I'm listening to it all the time. I'm I'm practicing it all the time. I'm I'm up late nights practicing. I'm doing rehearsal and doing rehearsal after rehearsal with myself. You know, and just like
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: really if I can, well, you know, nowadays we can, but like in the times I was coming up we didn't have it. But nowadays like even like putting it through a AI machine and stemming it out and just getting the drums and muting everything else and like actually listening to what's
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm-hmm.
TurnThePAYGE: going on and trying to figure out, okay, how did it move like this? Or you know, what is the song saying? Like these are all things that I just kind of take into mind when I'm learning any type of music. And going back to the originals
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: versus the live set that they sent you if you coming in after somebody or you know,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: listening, I listen to the band before us. I listen to everything and then go hear the original and then you realize that the original is a whole different thing. than what somebody may have played, their
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: interpretation of it. So
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: learning those originals and being able to, he did this, I can pull from this. he did this, I can pull from that. Like being able to like just have a vast knowledge of what you're playing, like really helps me.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yep. Bro, everybody seems to have the same story who is who's like yourself at the highest level, right? Getting to it, working with the best of the best. Everyone seems to be taking notes. Everyone seems to be listening. And then everyone seems to be engulfing themselves in whatever that means to them to make sure they understand how to digest the music and then be able to to articulate themselves in the way that the artist had envisioned that
TurnThePAYGE: Bella.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: song to go. Man, that that's that's a massive thing. And I I don't know about you, but I didn't always do that. You know, I I
TurnThePAYGE: I don't do that.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: kind of had the one I did the one listen. I understand it. I get it. I know this music. Man, I ain't know a mother effing thing.
TurnThePAYGE: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Cause you just you can't do a one listen. You know, we might be able do that now, but we trained ourselves
TurnThePAYGE: Yeah. Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: to hear all those details very quickly. So
TurnThePAYGE: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: now You kind of described your your best case scenario, but let's let's talk more practical about we what we really deal with. Yo,
TurnThePAYGE: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Paige, where you where you at? Cool. Gotta rehearsal tomorrow. Sending
TurnThePAYGE: Mm.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: you a Dropbox link right now. I need you to learn 15, 20 songs to come in and play this thing tomorrow. What is that process for you?
TurnThePAYGE: panic first. Get that out the way. Get that out the way. Get that out the way. Like, what
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Okay. Right, right, right.
TurnThePAYGE: am I about to do? And then, and then, and then I take the drummer hat off. Take it off. I'ma just
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yep.
TurnThePAYGE: listen. Play it. Listen. Listen. Don't try to learn. Yes, that's easy right now. Yeah, you hear that hit. Don't go back. Just listen, listen down. Listen down. Okay? Then panic again. All right. Then get my notebook. Get my handy dandy notebook. Okay? And then
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yep.
TurnThePAYGE: again, just take that time. Take that time. Write it out. All right, this is doing this, doing this, doing this, doing this. All right, now I'm going to play drums somewhere. Now I gotta go play. Now I gotta
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: go sit down. I gotta, I gotta I gotta, cause drums is muscle memory. I gotta, I gotta play.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes.
TurnThePAYGE: I gotta all right, yo, that's weird. What? How did I Okay? Ooh. Figure it out. And I'm gonna be up all night. I'm gonna be up all night. And then if I got time and rehearsal
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: at two, I'll be there at twelve to set up, because I don't like setting up drums with everybody else there. I'll take forever. So I need to be there at twelve. I need
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yep.
TurnThePAYGE: to make sure my stuff's right. But at eight, I'm probably trying to go somewhere and play drums. Eight in the morning. I'm up. I gotta, I I
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: I don't get up. For two months. I like my sleep, but at eight in the morning, I'm somewhere. I'm playing drums. I'm playing drums. I'm
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: figuring it out. I got my ears on it. I'm going.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: And then get the rehearsal. And yeah, we're gonna try to knock this out. I've I've actually dealt with a situation like that when I got called for Carrie Hill series. Very last minute, somebody posted something on Facebook, responded to it, and they sent me the music. And I literally listened down and called one of my big homies and was like, I'm about to tell them I can't do this. It's too much. It's like tempo changes,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Okay. Yes, yep.
TurnThePAYGE: tempo changes within the three songs, bro. Like one, next tempo. I ain't never played no stuff like that. Like, what am I about to? What am I about? I'm panicking, bro. I'm like calling my friend.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: He's laughing at me on the phone. And I'm like, bro, no. I need you to come stay at my house tonight. I need you to help me, bro. He's like, listen, calm down. Where's your notebook? Just write it out. I'll be there in a minute. I'll be there in a minute. I wrote it
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right, okay.
TurnThePAYGE: out. I wrote it out. I got about halfway through. And then they threw another monkey wrench. Here's the here's the interlude of every song she's written. And it's it's the same thing again: tempo changes and all this stuff. And then it's like a DJ mix, too. I've never played. No DJ stuff before. So I'm I'm panicking. He walks in. He's like, bro, just take your time. Let's take your time. So that's that's my advice.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: Slow down. Get your panic out first. Like, yes, this is scary. Yes,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: you could fail. Yes, that could happen. But who are you? What are you made of?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: All right. Now take your time. Learn this music. Because they wouldn't have called you if they didn't believe you could do it. So who needs to believe you can do
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: it? You use. So take your time.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: Learn it. Do your best. Show up with your best. Don't just listen, take a couple of notes, and kind of tap through and then show up and think you're gonna be in a room with these musical ears. These guys who are musical directors, man, their ears are really good. Like there's no skating.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes.
TurnThePAYGE: They're gonna hear it. So make sure you know your part, bro. That's I feel like we lose that hunger when we get older of the I'ma stay up all night and make sure it's right. Like we lose that. You gotta keep that. You gotta keep that. If it's if you
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm. Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: got 24 hours, you better go get it. Now, what if you got two hours to get to the studio? Well then you better make sure then your ears is open. Now we can't write charts. Now we now's
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: not the time. You better have your ears open. You better walk in that thing. This ain't the time to go play. This ain't the time to go shake up with the homies and sit outside and be like, yeah, man. Nah, boy, I'm at that playback. Hey, hey, play, play the intro
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: real quick. All right, cool. Hey, yo, that's going to my ears. man, yo, let's sit down. I'm playing drums by the time people walking in. If I, if I have
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: to, because it's about, it's about me representing myself, even though I'm here to represent the team and I'm here to work with everybody. you call me and you called me last minute, that means that you was in a pension. You need somebody who can get this done. I'ma get it done. And then we
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: can go be friends. Then we can go eat and all of that stuff. But right now we got a show to do.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, we got a job to execute right now.
TurnThePAYGE: Uh-huh.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Bro, that's that's massive. Like that's that's a massive gem right there because I think a lot of times, and and you can correct me if I'm wrong, when I got to this side of the industry, I thought everything was about to be sweet. Yeah, I mean, I thought I was about to get ample amount of time to rehearse, and they about to tell me this and this, and I'm gonna have all the sounds and I'll be good. Nah, it really was the exact.
TurnThePAYGE: I mean to use that with a north the terrible spanish. That's how we can watch the very strength about the gun. So much more now.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: And not because everybody isn't professional, it's because there's so many more moving parts before it even gets to you.
TurnThePAYGE: It's so much going on. A lot of my
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Like so much.
TurnThePAYGE: calls have been the last minute. Hey, can you show up? Can you do this? Like it's it's like that. it's like that everywhere. I got it like that in Atlanta too, but especially in LA. LA LA is that place that you just get that random call. Hey, where you at?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: And you just you gotta show up and you gotta show up and deliver, you know? You definitely do.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, that that I hope people take that away from that. Cause that's that's a massive gem you just dropped there about even this the process of how you going about interpreting music and then being able to execute it. I always tell people is like if you say yes, it doesn't matter after that. You said yes. Now you have to do whatever it is to make sure the job gets done. So if they gave you two hours and you said yes, well, nobody cares anymore, you said yes. You know, so do what you gotta do.
TurnThePAYGE: What's what's the first thing you gonna do in that two hours? The first thing I'm gonna do in that two hours is go to the originals. They never sent
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: me the music. I gotta get to the rehearsal. They don't have time to make me a print and send it to me. Okay, so if it's brandy,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: I know we're gonna do sitting up in my room. I know we're gonna do full moon. Like those are staples. I'm in
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yep.
TurnThePAYGE: those records, bro. My YouTube is bumping on the way, getting
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, yep.
TurnThePAYGE: dressed. What's next? Pulling up albums I ain't heard. All right, okay, now I'm in the car. Now we want. All right, let me let me go back to stuff I know they're gonna do again. All right, let me go here, here, here,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yep.
TurnThePAYGE: here. And when I step in that room, I at least got a sense of.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: What we about to do?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right. That's that's that's incredible. So when you when you spivoted over from Atlanta to here, right, and
TurnThePAYGE: Mm-hmm.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: you also correct me if I'm wrong, there was a learning curve, right? And not not that you couldn't play. That was that's a given. You've always been able to play. But how we interpret music and play music now is much different than what we did when we were in smaller clubs. Now you're stepping into
TurnThePAYGE: No.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: arenas, you're stepping into playing to 150,000 people at massive festivals. How you play changes a little bit because
TurnThePAYGE: Very difficult.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: you gotta you gotta make sure everything that you play with resonates and can cut through the mix. So every choice you make is a lot different. And I I got the privilege of watching you in Scissors rehearsals, and I'm like, wow, I'm watching a master of this craft because you weren't playing things that was your interpretation, right? You it was very calculated and and intentional, even from the hi-hat choice, where you were putting your clashes, how do you how did you do that? Right? Was that a falling your face and learn? Or was that like, okay, I I sat with the mix and I know what this is and what what what does that look like for you?
TurnThePAYGE: So I wouldn't say a learning curve on the plan because again, like
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Okay.
TurnThePAYGE: I had worked with a guy like Adam who just hears the freaking washiness of a symbol. Like how? What? That's crazy. It was it was the learning curve of working with different people. Everybody wants
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: something different, like everybody. So working with a Javad was different than working with a T Von. And Javad is cold and he has a way
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: So
TurnThePAYGE: that he wants to approach it. And T Von is cold. He
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yep.
TurnThePAYGE: has a way he wants to approach it. So with working,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes.
TurnThePAYGE: going to like what you were saying about like the southern stuff, it was more so of. Me going learning the music and then getting in the room with T and then T hearing the music
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: a different way and him saying, well that hi hat said. And I'm like, bro, that's a lot of hi-hats. You want me to play that? And he's like, Well, and this is what I love about T. He says, Well, let's listen. Like a lot of MDs
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: that I work with, and you know, not the bigger ones, but like a lot of the MDs that I work with have like been like, nah, I'm just saying, like just play it. And I'm like, I don't even know what you're hearing.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right. Right. Right. Right.
TurnThePAYGE: I but I got you, but I don't even know what you're hearing. I love that T was like,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: So
TurnThePAYGE: Well, no, let's just listen to it. Like, let's listen to it. So
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: when we listen to it, it was like, that put it right there, I I see you. That's that's crazy. Right there though. I think you could do that. And that that kind of transformed my brain. And that was the learning curve of like working with somebody who's that detailed. Where it was like, snap, I gotta
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: be even more detailed than I already am. Like I'm already playing three
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: different snare parts. Like, all right, but to so and I tell him that all the time, like, bro, like get you changed my life with that because it was just, all right, now I'll listen to the whole pattern. And try to play everything that I can, including the hi-hats, including, you know, whatever the cymbal swells and all of that stuff. growing up, I've had big homies who've always told me about different rooms and like playing in arenas versus stadiums versus theaters. So like I've always tried to like keep that in mind. Sometimes as drummers, we get excited, you what I'm saying, and we want to play whatever.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm-hmm.
TurnThePAYGE: but I feel like that crew with Susan, we were all just kind of that calculated. Like T's very calculated in his programming, very calculated in his keyboard sounds. You know, Ari was very
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes, yes.
TurnThePAYGE: calculated in her guitar sounds and her patches and learning the Kimper. And, you know, every bass player
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes.
TurnThePAYGE: that we've had from Carter to to Demetri was very calculated. And Declan just came in with very calculated, but with a young crazy energy and he's just gonna be decling. It was like, and from my front of house team,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: like even our front of house team. the reason why we all kind of moved like that was because I would stay there till 12 a.m. Feel strong would stay there till 12 a.m front of house and we would go through drum mixes and we would go through, all right, how do how do you feel this keyboard part is sitting versus this? And we all
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: were just that dialed in. So if I did a feel and rehearsal
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: And it was messing with something in the track, me and Phil would sit there and he'd be like, Yeah, that's kind of it kind of felt off, you know, like, or me and T would talk and be like,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: yo, I'm thinking this. And he would be like, Maybe this, you know. So it just comes, it that's the learning
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: So
TurnThePAYGE: curve, bro, of being able to deal or being able to work with different MDs. Cause some MDs would be like, yo, go. And some MDs would be like, nah, I hear
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: this. Like play this. Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes. Yeah, that's that's so true. But you were always willing to put in the work though. Stay
TurnThePAYGE: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: until twelve is is not easy to do when your call time is is back at ten and then you still got more music to digest because like now they gave you another eight songs and they're like, Yeah, tomorrow. You know what I mean? And and that's that's a real
TurnThePAYGE: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: real thing. But I I wanna talk about your
TurnThePAYGE: It's a real it's a real one.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, it it's it's so real, but you you were willing to do the work, and I think that's why a person like T Vaughn is so comfortable calling you to be like, nah, Paige, let's go knock this out. Cause I think he knows you're willing to take a listen. You're willing to sit
TurnThePAYGE: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: with front of the house and and and you're open to the feedback and criticism, constructive criticism that is, saying, okay, that that's not that's clashing. Yes, let's try this type of fill or maybe we should
TurnThePAYGE: No.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: play this exact fill that's in the record because that
TurnThePAYGE: Mm-hmm.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: is the segue of getting there. We mean you don't have to do something new.
TurnThePAYGE: Mm-hmm.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: I noticed that about your playing, you know, as DJ and I got to watch you guys rehearse, and phenomenal, by the way. Like absolutely incredible
TurnThePAYGE: Thank you, World.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: experience. Just watching you all rehearse was rewarding for us. Me and D both left and was like, okay, we see what our boys is out here doing, man.
TurnThePAYGE: Ha ha ha.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: And it was it was great, bro. But you don't choose, and I think this is who you are. You didn't choose the typical symbol setup.
TurnThePAYGE: Hold on.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Your symbol setup is very different than what we're seeing from other like some of our other predecessors. How
TurnThePAYGE: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: do you go about choosing your symbol selection, your drum selection, your your drum head selection,
TurnThePAYGE: Mm.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: and more, because you don't play the typical stuff that I would see myself would play or someone like Styx
TurnThePAYGE: Mm.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: or Ray that we already talked about? How do you choose those things?
TurnThePAYGE: The first thing is if everybody going here, I'm going here. I'm going right. That's that's the truth, bro. Me and Xander laugh about that. They'll be like, bro, I think if you put
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: this snare on the right, and I'll be like, never, never, it's not gonna happen. but no, I'm very, I'm very calculated, man. you know, I'm always gonna mention that, but yeah, just dealing with. Dealing with that while she symbols. So I always kind of think about that in every moment now. Like, I play this stuff days. If I got weeks, weeks before I step in this
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: rehearsal. So I don't step in a rehearsal like, I'm gonna try it. Like, no, it's like I need this snare right here. And I'm gonna put this pad here and I need this crash here because I'ma swell out here and I need to be able to catch it, but then I need to be able to hit this one here and okay, effect symbol, but I still need something right here. Like I'm very just calculated to what
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: I need to play. So I feel like a lot of times in you guys, y'all setups are just the same. It's like what you need, like y'all y'all put
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Uh-huh.
TurnThePAYGE: up, like okay. This is what I need for this. So I feel like a lot of times drummers, because you can put it on back line or because productions won't order it, is like, I'm gonna just put all this stuff up here. And I've dealt with old school production managers who will come to you and be like, why do we have 20 symbols? You're not gonna hit 20 symbols. And they will sit there and watch you play the show and be like, that one splash you got up there, you only hit it one time. We're not ordering that again. Right. So I've
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Ryan.
TurnThePAYGE: I've made sure in every setup that I do and anything that I do that all right, this is what I need for the gig. That I'ma play everything
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm-hmm.
TurnThePAYGE: that's up here. Like I only need one splash. I only need one stack. I only need one crash and one effect crash over here in the ride. That's what I need. Like, so I feel like people should definitely like sit down and be like, all right, cool. I'm about to play this gig. I'm about to play. with I don't know man Snow Allegra, right? I'm about to play with Snow Allegra. what is the music yielding me to? What is it, is
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: it, is it avant-garde, like RB? Is it like, are we talking Chris Daddy Dave symbols? Like real dark and trashy? Or are we talking like
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: real smooth and quick? Like I I think that detail. And when it comes to drums, like, all right, I know I'm gonna need my main snare, right? That's got to be popping. But if I'm playing a pop rock gig, then it might not need to be as high. So it might need to be deep, deep within width, but still kind of crank. All right, most gigs now,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: you need a ballot snare. All right, so that's gonna be that. But times, do I need three up top? Do I need two up top? Is this yielding me more towards the RB or the or the pop lane? Okay, well then maybe
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: I might just do 8, 10, 16. Maybe I might do 10, 12,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Hey.
TurnThePAYGE: 16. It just it all depends on what the music's giving you. And then I'll do all of that. And then you get to wherever, and then you deal with a sound guy who tells you I don't got enough inputs. I just dealt with that. I had a crazy vision.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: Had a crazy vision, like 10, 12, 16. With a 12 old school and a 14 old school floor tom on the side. It's
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: about to be some rocker. And then I got there like John Bonham. I'm thinking John Bonham. It's about to be crazy. And they like, hey, we don't
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: got enough inputs. What you gonna do? Y'all got you all got inputs for
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Okay.
TurnThePAYGE: that. So, you know, again, you could build and all of it go bad too. But the first thing I think
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: about when I'm building anything is All right, how what does the music need? What does what not necessarily the look of this needs to be a big kick, but like what does the music yield to? And then we can go from there. Then we can add. Then we can add some like little trinkets here that's like, that's cute, you know.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right. We we can add a little bonus over it.
TurnThePAYGE: Hello.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: I think that's massive though, man, because you you ain't getting caught up in the hype. You're not saying, I have all these drums. I I have all these symbols I could use, so I'm just gonna put it up there because I can. You're
TurnThePAYGE: Well, yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: saying, nah, if the music ain't yielding for it, well, it ain't going up here. So let's make it make sense across the board.
TurnThePAYGE: And I don't like the I don't like to talk too much, girl. Well, I do like to talk too much. But I don't like to like when it comes to like pressure situations, like I don't, I don't really like going back and forth like that. So like
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: again, you gotta deal with front of house, you gotta deal with your sound guys, you gotta deal with your condition managers, you gotta deal with your tour managers. It's like I need to have a reason to have this. If I don't, that's
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: a lot of conversation of why I have this. Well, you don't need 15
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: drums. I do. It's a marching band playing in the track. I'm gonna play with the marching band stuff, bro. I need a marching snare. It's in
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: the record. Like, you gotta be able to explain that. So that keeps me from having
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: to be like, all right, yeah. Well, no, I really don't need that extra snare. It's like, no, I need that. I need that. And I'm I'm gonna play it, bro. I promise
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Absolutely.
TurnThePAYGE: you, I'm gonna play it.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes. That's the I think that's important though. You gotta be able to set to justify the why.
TurnThePAYGE: You do.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: You know, because you don't you don't want somebody to come back to you saying, yo, we can't afford this, or X, Y, and Z is like, okay, but I kind of need this. And you should be able to tell anybody who asks you, from musical director to production team, whoever is asking, yo, do we need all this? Yeah, actually these three records
TurnThePAYGE: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: I need this for that and these three records I need this for that and I need spare heads because of this, like that conversation you should be able to have and articulate yourself with confidence. And it seems like you're you're saying that, right? You know exactly
TurnThePAYGE: Well I don't think we're nothing.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: why you chose what you chose and why you need what you need. So it's not even a question. When you
TurnThePAYGE: No. And that shows, that shows them your professionalism. Like most times
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: they come to drummers and be like, hey man, do we need all this? Yeah, I need all of this, man. What you mean? Like it's my drums versus man, you need all of this? Yeah, because these three songs at the top, we do this. These next five songs, I do this. And then on the listen, on the last one, boy, you just got them into your whole sauce. Now they gonna watch you. Now they like, my God, like, bro,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Now they watch it, right, yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: he know every record. He he designed artists for these records. Like it that kind of
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes.
TurnThePAYGE: energy matters. And that's, you know, the stuff that I've learned from Brian too is just like your energy behind something really matters when it comes to talking to leadership
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Hmm.
TurnThePAYGE: or MDs or or sound guys or production managers. It's your energy. I've coming up as a younger guy, I was the other guy. I was the Hey man, yeah, yeah. And then be like, okay, or just take it off your take it off your rider and never even say nothing. You just show up, it's not there. You know what I'm saying? Versus now
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right, right.
TurnThePAYGE: when people ask me, like, hey, yo, you got a lot going on. Like, all of this is needed. Yeah. For this, this, this, this, this, this. And then they respect that energy more. It's the energy that you present
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: in situations.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: I think that's that's a very valuable lesson. It's about how, you know, that how you go about handling these situations is typically the most important thing. Cause some most of the time we're right, right? And and and that goes on
TurnThePAYGE: Mm-hmm.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: both sides. Both times management is right and we're right. But if you don't figure out how to communicate that properly, well, they have the seat at the table, you don't. So they can immediately decide not to do something and then like to your point, you just show up and it's like, where's my eight? man, we we okay. And there's nothing you could do. There's nothing you could do. That's
TurnThePAYGE: We couldn't get that. We couldn't get that. We gonna play the gig 'cause we need the money. It's real. You know, so
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, you you've mentioned mentorship, bro. And and I everybody on the show seems to to bring that up in some some capacity. How valuable is that to you? And do you still lean on counsel? Like a person that you bring up is like Brian Fraser Moore, incredible, incredible person, phenomenal musician, great husband. You know, but you you're bringing up these do you still reach out to people like that or do you feel like now in your career you don't really need anybody for that type of guidance anymore?
TurnThePAYGE: I live my life by my wise counsel. Like
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: I've I spent a lot of time having mentorship but not consulting them. So in a lot of ways, I would burn a bridge. And I'm talking gasoline, Eminem in the music video would burn a bridge. And it was and then go back to my my people and be like, man, this happened. And they'd be like, man, I wish. you would have called me. Like, you know, so I I feel like, man, it is, it is extremely important at whatever level that you on to have somebody that you can go to. Bro, first off, we're just people. We're just people,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: bro. We're just humans. It don't matter how long I've been in the game. No matter how long you've been in the game. Don't matter how long Brian been in the game. We just people. And as people, we all go through something. So it's dope
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yep.
TurnThePAYGE: to have somebody that you can go to. You know, O'Brien for me. and I've had other me mentors like Mark Mays out of Atlanta and Trey Gilbert out of Atlanta, Justin Gilbert out of Atlanta. you know, I've had a lot of great people.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm-hmm. Yes, Bishop.
TurnThePAYGE: Yeah, the bishop, man. You know, I've had a lot of people that I could go to, Jaron Cox, Aunt Parish that I could go to, but I never went to them. I never felt like, you know, they wanna hear me be my only child self sometimes. You know, I have only child moments. I do. That's just real, like.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm. Okay.
TurnThePAYGE: And I I feel like as men, they ain't gonna wanna hear my bull. Like I'm over here crying over nothing, you know, and when
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: I linked in with Brian, Brian was like, dude, always call me. I don't care what it is, you can call me,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes.
TurnThePAYGE: bruh. Like you can call me. And I realized that every time I went through a situation, I called him. It was always, it was never, and this is just for mentors too. Like, don't bash your mentees. You know, then they'll never
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: come to me. Like I've it's never been a time that I've come to Brian and he's bashed me. Like it's never been a time
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: that I've come to Brian and he's all the way on my side either. You know what I'm saying? Like it's been times
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right, right, right.
TurnThePAYGE: that he be like, Go sleep on that. I'd be like, nah. And he'd be like, bro, go sleep on that. Call me tomorrow. And then we talk tomorrow and then all right, I see a bigger picture. Like mentorship is important because you're only gonna see The bubble you're in. You're only gonna see the world you're in. So when something happens in your little world compared to like the grand scheme of things, like when something happens in your little world, you're gonna feel like it's the biggest thing in the world. And who I used to be was
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yep.
TurnThePAYGE: like a raging maniac when it comes to like my little world. But now I call my brother
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: and be like, yo, I'm feeling this. And he'll be like, okay, that's warranted. That's dope. But let's approach it like this. And then I'm able to still make money. Or I'm able to like keep my sanity. Cause that's the most important
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: part. Is like we're on this road for however long we're on this road, you know, and we gotta deal with personalities, we gotta deal with people, we gotta deal with missing our family, we gotta deal with our own crabby behavior sometimes, you know. So
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes, sir.
TurnThePAYGE: It's like good to have somebody who pulls you up out your bubble. Like, nah, get up out of that. Look at the grand scheme of things. So I feel like everybody should have mentorship. And I am a big spokesperson for everybody should sign up for BFM consultations because you only know,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Same.
TurnThePAYGE: you only know what you think you know until you deal with somebody who's really had 30 years. In the game, bro, and can like help you, not just from the playing side, bro, like from the business. I've always been a great player. He's
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes.
TurnThePAYGE: helped me with playing too and understanding certain things and movement, but he's helped me with business. And that's changed my life. That's changed
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm-hmm.
TurnThePAYGE: everything that I do, every client that I talk to, realizing that these people are clients, not my friends. And I'm here to serve them. I'm here to work with them. They're my clients from an MD. Not just the artist. The MD, he's a client. He's my friend, but
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes, yes.
TurnThePAYGE: he's a client, bro. He is hiring turn the page productions to do a job. He's a client. And I ain't trying to lose no clients. So it's good, it's
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right, right, right, right.
TurnThePAYGE: good to like have these moments and then be have somebody be some call. You know what I'm saying? Like I'm sure you can call DJ. I'm sure it's other people that you can call when you go into something and it ain't what you feel it need to be. And then that could help you see the bigger picture.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes, and I I I double down, triple down on everything you just said. I I don't do
TurnThePAYGE: Mm.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: anything without counsel typically. It's just it's the safest way to make sure I'm not missing something. And
TurnThePAYGE: Mm-hmm.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: also I want to make sure we give Brian his flowers more because Brian also has helped me a ton. And to
TurnThePAYGE: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: your point, especially on the business side of things, bro, a wealth of knowledge, but coming from a place of love. And honesty versus criticism and I'm better than you, I've been here longer. Like he's never made me feel that way. It's
TurnThePAYGE: Never.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: always call. What it what is it that you have a question about? Cool, here's how you game this up, here's how you do it this way. And for people who are looking for mentors, man, I I think you need to find somebody who's willing to tell you the truth on both sides. One, if you're doing the right thing, they should be able to tell you that. And also, if it's like, hey man, go sleep on that. You should they should be able to tell you that too, and your relationship shouldn't change.
TurnThePAYGE: yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: And also, if you don't take their advice, that also that relationship shouldn't change.
TurnThePAYGE: No.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Those are the healthier relationships when it comes down to mentor and mentee. And I I I'm glad you're speaking on that, man. And once again, we're we're we're doubling down on BFM consultations because he he really cares. It's not a it's
TurnThePAYGE: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: not a facade or it's not a money grab. The money is just to get you to him To occupy the time for you, the spaces for you. But after
TurnThePAYGE: Wow.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: that, you got a brother for life. You got a resource for life. And that guy, man.
TurnThePAYGE: Man, I'ma be 100, man. Every everybody should just reach out, period. The consultations is there, all the stuff. But man, he's done so much for so many people in this industry, bro. And you know, I tell him all the time, I I ain't no smoke blower. If you don't know me, you know, to the to the fans, hey, I'm Paige. like he started this with I'm me. but he ain't I
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: don't blow smoke up there, bro. Like he's It took me a minute to meet different people in the industry and talk about B and understand how much he's helped them, whether it be an endorsement, whether it be some business, whether it be a gig, whether he's he's literally the behind the scenes guy that really be looking out, you know. So yeah, I triple down.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Massively.
TurnThePAYGE: I triple down on that BFL consultation, man. And I triple it, you know, even if you don't want to sign up, I definitely triple down on having wise counsel, having somebody to talk to.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes. Absolutely. So you mentioned endorsements, man. And I this is a topic that I I always ask all the musicians because I know the other musicians listening always have this question: endorsements, endorsements, endorsements. They want to be endorsed. They're looking to get endorsed. They're looking to get with Pearl. They're looking to get with DW. They're looking for this, right? What is your philosophy and ideas attached to endorsements in general in terms of getting them? Is it valuable? Is it something that people should be yearning for? Is it something that should be an afterthought? Wait until like what what's your concept to this this massive talking point of endorsements?
TurnThePAYGE: I was hoping you wasn't gonna go there, man. I didn't wanna do it. Don't talk about this.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Got to, man. You a real one, bro. So I know you're about to give some real gems.
TurnThePAYGE: Jesus, I'm about to go. Y'all got a minute? Get a coffee. It's about to go. All right, listen. So this is how I feel about endorsements. I approached
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm-hmm.
TurnThePAYGE: endorsements the wrong way for 10 years of my career. 10 years of my career.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Ooh.
TurnThePAYGE: I wanted to be signed. I wanted to be with a company. And I had no reason to be with these people other than. I just wanted to be with these people. It don't matter that
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Wow.
TurnThePAYGE: you working. It don't. It really don't. They're going to buy this backline either way. You can switch to the next company. You with Tamma. You don't like them today. You can go to Gretch. It don't matter, bro. They're gonna buy these drums. I feel like endorsements are necessary when you need them. Like when you get to that place in your career that we're talking about being self-contained, or we're talking about
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: they're they're buying the gear for the tour. They're gonna buy the gear for the tour. They don't have time to go through a center stage in or an SIR and rent gear for a year. They're not gonna do that. They're gonna buy
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: That's crazy. Right.
TurnThePAYGE: the gear, right? So now endorsement matters to you because if something breaks. They need to be able to get in contact with somebody. They need to, because
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: the show has to go on. If your kick drum is cut in half, the show has to go on. They're not going to stop the show because your kick drum don't work. It ain't the artist's voice.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: That's a fact.
TurnThePAYGE: So you got to be able to get in contact with somebody. You got to be able to talk to somebody. So that's when the endorsement matters. everybody goes for the endorsements. And again, I'm talking personal experience. You're You are listening to a guy who has messed this up for years. It
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: is about relationship, bro. It is, it is, I feel like I have made great relationships with my company heads, with my ARs, with my people. And it was not easy. Just because I had a big gig or we're on tour, doesn't mean they were signing me. They looked at me like who, what? Nah, we'll see how that goes. Are
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: they even gonna put you on stage? Like these are the questions that are asked, you
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yep.
TurnThePAYGE: know. So I feel like relationship matters. Like you need to have a relationship with these ARs, you need to have a relationship with these people. So again, when it comes to the point of you wanting to be endorsed, it matters. It's not just like, my name's on a piece of paper and I use these people's gear exclusively in gold diggers. That's a club in LA if you're not in LA.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right. And no knock to anybody who plays gold niggas because he's they be killing over there. Yeah, love.
TurnThePAYGE: It don't we love gold diggers. I love gold diggers. But at the end of the day, if you're only getting indoors to play in clubs, that's not conducive to the company who's trying to sell millions of dollars worth of drums or millions of dollars worth of
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Bingo.
TurnThePAYGE: keyboards or cymbals or you get what I'm saying? Like all of that stuff is good, but it's It's levels. And I feel
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes.
TurnThePAYGE: like we all have to respect our levels. Like I, and again, this is five years ago that I learned this for myself. Okay. I was playing with some of the
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: dopest 90s acts out and not understanding why I couldn't get endorsed. but
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: it's levels. And once you once you get to that level and once you learn how to talk to these companies and say, all right, cool. Now I'm going out on the 90s tour. I'm gonna buy the kit or I'm gonna get the kit and
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: I wanna take care of this and I wanna take care of that. Now your relationships come into play. Now the endorsements come into play. Now it works for you versus like you just being like, hey, I want to sign with you. And I'm like, okay. And then they're still, they're still gonna order your back line. You just on paper and they get. Here's another thing. Sorry, I told you, you got your coffee. I told you. And we going down. Here's another thing,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: I I'm with it. Let's get it. Let's get it. Yes, sir.
TurnThePAYGE: man. They get 20,000 emails a day. They get 2,000 emails a day. You have to respect the fact that they haven't hit you back. Maybe it got lost in the sauce. Continue
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: to hit them. Continue to hit them up. Don't get offended and aggressive. Because you feel like your email was so important. It was, but they got two thousand two hundred other emails from the Travis Barkers of the world or or the Chad Smiths of the world, man. Like there or the Brian
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes, yes.
TurnThePAYGE: hit. He just got a big tour and he need and this and this and this. Hey, bro, there's things happening that's bigger than you. And we talked about that earlier,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: That's a fact.
TurnThePAYGE: which is the I got the gig. All right, you got the gig, bro. But that don't mean that the world stopped for everybody else, too. And again,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: I'm coming from experience. I'm coming from emailing people and being like, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo. And them not hitting me back. And then they sign somebody. And then I'm like, hold on, bruh. Wait, what about me? And then I've almost burnt the
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: relationship. And I gotta go back and apologize. And I gotta be like, yo, bro. I was my bad. Let's
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: start over. You know, so just respect people's time,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: respect people's space, realize they're people, even though they're A and Rs. And what do you need this endorsement for? What do you need it for?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Boom. That's the magic question. What do you need it for? Wow. Brian says something that was actually genius. He's like, it really is actually, and Q also mentioned this was it's a partnership. And if you approach it as only if what you can do for me, you've missed this key component of business.
TurnThePAYGE: Mm-hmm.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: The point of having artists like yourself on
TurnThePAYGE: No start.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: their roster is to hopefully be able to move product. That is their only reason.
TurnThePAYGE: One of their only engines
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: to put you on the on the artist roster, right? Because to your point, whatever writer we submit, we're pretty much gonna get it. Right. It's it's not a it's not a if, ands, or buts about that typically. If we write it down if within reason, you're probably gonna get it. But putting a page on their artist roster says, okay, he's in front of 20,000 people on average. He's playing
TurnThePAYGE: for a bottom of the other thing. What about the guy used to move? Look at if you have a bit of bike participation. You never put a big engine, we're simply gonna go. But putting a home on the other branches goes, okay, he was kind of putting the
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: the biggest festivals in the world that is on average 150,000 people that are just on site.
TurnThePAYGE: I've got to know you're going to stream this thing. If I could have something logo, I basically get this kind of CPK.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: That's not the millions that are gonna stream this thing. And if I can have my company's logo, boom, boom, boom, I can hopefully get 50 to 100 people to at least check it out. Right? Because the truth is, most of the people are not showing up to our shows being like, I'm only here for the drummer. Nah, nigga, they're here to watch Scissor. They're here to watch Tate McCrae. They're not here to watch us. Now it's dope when we are here, but from a business standpoint. Pearl is only looking at what kind of product can you move off the shelf? Being able to partner.
TurnThePAYGE: Yeah. And and and with the with with the gear that you can move, but also their drummers or their artist relations that have been with other companies. So they know how this label works or they know how these people work. So you get
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: the gig today. Are you gonna be there next year? Are you gonna be there for the next two tours? So I could give you this entire endorsement right now. We could give you everything. And then are you even gonna be there next year? Because things happen. It's not your fault. Poor managers change, MDs change. You get a bigger
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, things just happen. Yeah. Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: situation that you think is gonna work out, and then they get pregnant and wanna sit down and you make the wrong move. Life happens. So
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Life happens.
TurnThePAYGE: So you have to be consistent. Your your
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Wow.
TurnThePAYGE: work ethic is consistency. So they would want to partner
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Hmm.
TurnThePAYGE: with you. It's not about the gig. Take the gig out of it. If they're signing you for the gig, then the gig can end tomorrow and so can your partnership.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Deep, bro. That that gem right there is massive because that that that immediately changes your mental framework attached to this this deal. Now you're not just looking at it. Well, it's almost like your idea, your ideology of who you are can also get attached to the gig. If you're like, I finally got the the arena gig, okay, what happens when you lose it? Are you still Paige? Are you still Brian? Are you still Jarvis? Are you still Sticks? Or are you down and out? Are you are you do you feel like you're worthless now? And we see that, right? We see guys get get placements in and well done. But then something happens to your point. They artists, you work with a female client who wants to have a kid. Okay, well, they're sitting down now. What are you gonna do?
TurnThePAYGE: Can you keep working? Can you make it to the next situation? And for all of the young drivers, because we just talking like we friends, we catching up. This is the FaceTime call I never get from drivers. It's okay. but
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, right, right, right. Stop it.
TurnThePAYGE: 100. This is for the kids, man. Never attach yourself to your gig. Attach yourself to your brand. It's a it's it's the gig again, going back to the it's just a client. It's just a work
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: today, bro. It's just, it's, it's just the person shopping at the register at Walmart today. It's gonna be somebody else tomorrow.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: And you can love them and you can like them and y'all could be family. And if you are there longer than 365 days, you are blessed young man, young woman.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: But the gig shouldn't make you. It shouldn't. Me and my cousin, fit Philip Fisher, he's the original drummer for Fishbone. we talked
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: about that when I first moved to LA, because I was down. I had just come from doing Teddy Riley. I just come from doing music social to moving to LA and everybody telling me they got me and then there's no room for me right now. And it's okay,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: but I'm down. And he's like, yo, listen, I understand because we do these gigs, we make this money, we put our heart into it, and then we start to define ourselves with these situations. But before you ever have that
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Wow.
TurnThePAYGE: situation and after you lose that situation, you're still you. So go get
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: it. For you, never put your ideology, your self-esteem, your self-worth into a gig. I would love to play for Susan again. I really would. Even
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: though she on break, I would love to, but I can't put turn the page into Sizzle. I gotta put turn the page into turn the page. So I'll go play with a money long,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: I'll go play with a queen. I'll release my own records. I'll work on other people's records. I'll go play with a listing. I'll go start a jam night in LA. I'll I I'll do what Paige
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes.
TurnThePAYGE: has to do for Paige because at the end of the day, Paige is gonna look out for Paige. That's it.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Hey. Yes, sir. Man, you you said something that actually wanted to pivot I wanted to pivot to to talk to you about because people don't know how dope you are, in my opinion. From your branding standpoint, bro, well done. And you're to me, I feel like you're just beginning and you might feel differently too, but I feel like you're really getting your footing and people are starting to recognize you differently than just the guy who plays drums. Your your artistry, phenomenal. Your jam that you do in LA. I was just telling Raj this. Raj and I or Raj was on a project that I was assistant MD in, and I I just I gave him his flowers put in coincide to you because not only have you guys maintained this jam that happens on Tuesday nights for just like a short amount, but you guys have you're in year two now. That's
TurnThePAYGE: Mm-hmm.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: commendable because a lot of guys start something and it lasts for a few weeks, a couple months, or whatever, but Not only have you maintained it, y'all have elevated it. When DJ and I popped it in top of the year, we're like, yo, got tables, niggas is moving and grooving. We got the stream up. I'm like, my brother's killing it right now, and everybody should know how fucking fire this dude is off
TurnThePAYGE: I first had it, bro.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: of the drums, man. Like, so let me ask you this: why? Why is that important to you? Why is your artistry important to you? Why is cultivating an environment for the musician community to come together in and fellowship on their instruments and they can break bread and have a cocktail. And you you had an an artist doing art r in real time. He's making his paintings in real time, bro. That's
TurnThePAYGE: Yeah, yeah. In real time.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: I was so impressed and proud. I'm like, man, we have to talk about this because people need to know that this exists and that they have a a safe space, not just a place, but a safe space to Yeah, it's a safe space to
TurnThePAYGE: Safe space.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: to stretch out if you need to. You also are down to give criticism. Hey, man, we got to change this groove up. I've seen you do it. And not because you're being a jerk. It's like one, you gotta respect the room. But also you have to challenge the artistry that's on on the bandstand right now to evolve. I love that,
TurnThePAYGE: Yeah, we try to build them.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: man. So yeah, so talk about your brand, man. What what you're doing out here in and dog, yeah, please.
TurnThePAYGE: So I'll start with the jam side of things. shout out to our our partner, man, Triple S the Best. that's his studio that we do the jam in. And shout out to Raj. Raj had an idea. Raj used to host a jam pre pandemic. and he just wanted to bring that back. And I wanted to tap in with him because I lived in LA pre pandemic, and LA was a total different space, different place. We had Sayers, we had the study, we had
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes, yes.
TurnThePAYGE: seven summer lounge on Sundays. We had all these amazing places for musicians to go play. And like I said
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: from Atlanta, I come from that culture. Apache Cafe, Cafe 290, Planes,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm-hmm.
TurnThePAYGE: like just, you know, cats. Like we had these spaces where I could be the young guy in the club, but I can come and listen. I can come and play. So we had this idea to start crescendo, now top shelf, in in the heart of Hollywood, man, and and for the musicians, for the singers. It is a testament to be doing this this long, man. We need to get people out. So if y'all watching this show up on the Tuesday, come on somebody. But
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
TurnThePAYGE: to have it going for almost two years now, man, is is definitely a blessing. But I just wanted to, I just wanted to create a space. That reminded me of home. That reminded me of how I grew up. and somewhere where young kids could come play and get those lessons. Like I feel like a lot of times the generation after us, really the generation after us didn't get to experience getting kicked off a drum suit or to experience
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: playing something and You shift the entire energy in the room and you feel like, I'm off. Like, and that's that's what I love about our space. Our our our audience, our people that come are very honest. They're very blunt. They
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: they'll look at you. If that one get off and I start counting, the whole
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah. Yep.
TurnThePAYGE: room will be like, whoa! But it's a place where I've seen some of LA's new hot talent come in and work and practice and listen. And it's not a space where I'm your musical director and you feel like I'm on your neck. Like, yo, that's wrong. And you
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: off. You off that click. Hey, bro. Hey, it's not that. It's like, hey, you felt that. You it's a you felt that.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: All right, listen, hey, I've told a couple of homies, man. Like people don't know. I'm very, I'm very absorbing of energies too, of like, or what people say. You know what I'm saying? So like sometimes
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: I play with a click in my ear in the middle of the club. I dial it in, play with a click in my ear. Just because I want to make sure I'm on point. So I'll tell a lot of the the young homies like, hey, bro, you got some headphones? You got a metronome app? I use this metronome out. Hey, put that on. Put that on in your ear. And now
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: we got shout out to our DJs. We've had DJ Kaya G, she's been there with us. Now we got DJ SoCal, my brother, he's with us. So I'll have DJ SoCal play
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: a record, take all of the things out the record, keep the drums, speed it up. And now you playing to a track. So now you can
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: hear it. You know, that's what I want for all of the cats coming in. And you know, we got a lot of spaces for the singers, and I want singers to be able to come too. But this isn't the place where you're gonna get up and be like, hey, I wanna sing long walk. This is the place that you're gonna get up and actually sing long walk over whatever the band's playing. Like this is for the musicians. This
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Ooooo.
TurnThePAYGE: is for your creativity. This is for you to find your own space. And even in this space, I've had times where I've had to play keys or I've had to play bass or I've I've had to
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: sing to start the jam. And you know, it's just kind of branched me out into. more of my artistry. But yeah, man, the jam. I'm an artist. I have two songs out. Chick, get with it. I'm working on more
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yep.
TurnThePAYGE: records. Raj Will helped executive produce those first two records. And yeah I got I got some exciting things coming up on the artist side man. So yeah just branding from clothes to hats and you know all of this stuff. I'm just trying to brand man and let people know. About turn the page, bro. It's not just drums, it's music, it's not just music, it's comedy, you know. I'm going into like a lot
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: of different places.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: That may I ask you why? Why why not just stay on drums, right? If you if you're hot on drums, why not just stay there? What why shift?
TurnThePAYGE: I've always wanted to do everything else. I feel like everybody's always pushed me to just stay on drums. Like, I've always wanted to play keys. My godfather, who was a very well renowned, known a real renowned, known minister of music in Atlanta, Maurice Carl Pepper, used to tell me all the time, like, man, yo, go play keys, go play bass. And I'll go to my mom and be like, hey, buy me your bass. And she'd be You better go play the drums I bought you. You know, so
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: and then like coming up later in life, I would program something. I'd be programming something, and I call my friends, hey, come play keys on this, come play bass on this.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: And then after the fourth day that they don't show up, you just gonna learn them chords and play it yourself. Like that's so
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right. Right. Right.
TurnThePAYGE: I I feel like and one of my best friends, Jay Troy, says this all the time. It's like it's just It's just me. Like I've always just been myself and being me, I've always been a busybody. I'm always in everything. So I feel
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: like just at this point, I've just started to be confident in it. It's like it's like everybody else. It's like you. You play keys and drums and MD and program and run playback. And I've seen you in so many different lights. I didn't even know you played drums the way you did until I heard you. And I was like, that makes sense. You know, so no, that's
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: That one thank you, man. Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: just real. But at a point you got confident in that and did that. And that's what made
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: you you. And I just feel like I didn't have and you know, honest moment. but I didn't have that confidence coming up. I just always wanted to like play these drums because that's what I was confident in. And I was like trying to get into these other things. And people was like, No, man, you killing on drums. Just play drums. And, you know, you kinda like Fold to people who you think have your best interests at heart. And that's again where I say good mentorship with the right advice is what matters because you know that would push me
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: earlier, you know, into all of these lands. But yeah, it's just me. I'm I'm honestly not trying to go into different lanes because it's like, ooh, I gotta make a pivot. It's like, I literally, like I said, with the keys and the bass and all of that stuff, it was records I needed done. People just didn't show up. So I just I'm good. So I just picked up a bass and just picked up a keyboard and slowed it down or played it enough times till it sounded like it was good. And, you know, comedy. I
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: just was playing pool. If anybody knows I'd be at these pool hall playing. And they were doing a co a comedy night.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Paige is a a a pool shark, by the way. Don't don't that's what
TurnThePAYGE: Yeah, I do that. I do that.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: he does.
TurnThePAYGE: I get serious about that. but they were doing comedy one
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Super serious.
TurnThePAYGE: night and I just signed up for the comedy thing and stepped up there and just told some jokes and and at the end I was like, Y'all like this? Am I funny? And the host was like, You need to recourage yourself. And I was like, Why you say that? And she said, You would never ask that question again. You're hilarious. You
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: actually need to like do this. full time like you're you're good so you know hosting hosting when we did the jam y'all are my friends why I'ma let Raj host why I'm gonna let triple host y'all my friends I'ma talk shit to my friends excuse my French but I'ma talk you know to my friends you feel me or try to let try to make sure that
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah. Right. I think that's fire.
TurnThePAYGE: the bands Stay together. Like I'm I'm a musical director. I'm a drummer. I'm a musician. I I feel it when it's wrong. So why would I be like, hey, Raj, go tell him it's wrong. No, I'm gonna just grab the mic and be like, ooh. You know what I'm saying? So yeah, that's how all of these things kind of happen. It's just like the spaces that I've been in that have kind of pushed me to be like, hey, go do that real quick. All right.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah. I think that's great, man. I think a lot of musicians should try to diversify themselves off of their instrument. And I
TurnThePAYGE: No.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: I have my own selfish reasons why I think people should do that. But I think for a person like you, I'm hearing that's just innately what was in you. And now you're really just going for
TurnThePAYGE: Long.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: it. Like this is a moment where you're like, you know what? I may have some time. I'm not out on the road right now, but I can't just sit stagnant. You know, I gotta get to it in in my own way.
TurnThePAYGE: in the world, you know. Because I'd be really talking to the issue hopefully. I think probably is that for me. This
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: And I'm glad you talked about branding, bro, because I see a lot of the younger cats, and I would love to get your take on this. I think they're phenomenal. I think they're incredible about the musicianship that we're seeing now. These guys and girls, they're killing. But their branding to me is unsure. It's
TurnThePAYGE: is what I was still doing.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: not polished. It doesn't resonate in a way where I'm like, I know where you're going. Your branding pivoted in a way where I'm like, I see what he's trying to do. What should these younger musicians be doing when they're looking to be a person like yourself? They're looking to be a touring, supporting artist to a mainstream artist. What should they do when it comes down to internet, Instagram, TikTok space? And then transitioning over because they're two different hats, in my opinion, right? The
TurnThePAYGE: Mm-hmm.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Getting the likes in in the in the fiery emojis are one way, but it typically doesn't translate to being a supporting artist for a brandy, a scissor. You know, it doesn't translate. So what advice would you potentially give somebody who is trying to be a turn the page, a valuable call to all these musical directors that it is maybe only on the Instagram, maybe only on the TikTok? What What things should they be doing or or or or analyzing to to to perform better for those other types of gigs?
TurnThePAYGE: I like I like the way that you put that. So I'm gonna respond how you said that. I'm not the big social media guy. Not at all. I'm a little more old school in like getting out and going to find the people and going to find
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Hmm.
TurnThePAYGE: the work. so I believe that. Social media and streaming and doing all the videos and doing all the things is an amazing tool that we did not have coming up at all. And it
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes, yes.
TurnThePAYGE: is great to be used, but you also have to do the B side of that record. You need to go learn shows. You need to go talk to musicians in your city. You need to play with artists in your city. And approach that as a show. a
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: lot of my opportunities came from being in the city, playing at a gospel night, or there was this club in Atlanta called the Sea Room, which was a RBS club, it was a gospel club. But that's where Aunt
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: Parrish, Jyron Cox, Chris Moton, Trap Jack, that's where they was every Friday. I was there every Friday
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: eating that chicken.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: And being like, hey, hey, what's up? And when they invited me up playing, and then I got to go play with them here and go play with them there. And then ended up at the same church with them. And then Dietrich happened. You know what I'm saying?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Okay.
TurnThePAYGE: So it's like getting out. And then Kelly Rowland and So So Death happened, you know, because of Adam and because Jesse introduced me to Adam and and, you know, working with Chris. That all of those things, it's like. You could be on social media all day and you can get the calls. But in order to like get the calls, keep getting the calls, really deserve them calls, is making sure that when you get that call, you're ready. Not
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: just social media ready. Now I can just play these shops. Like that's one thing that I love about, you know, a couple of people out here, Josh Foster, Tony from Chicago, drummer, Tony
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yep. Tony Taylor, yep.
TurnThePAYGE: Taylor. like guys that that go crazy on social media on Instagram. I've seen the chop videos, I've seen them all.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: but then can be a chameleon and go play with Black Pink, go play with Renee Rap. Like that's
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: that's what that's about. Like being able
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: to say, hey, I can do this, but I could do this as well. and just redefining what your social media is gonna be. You know what I'm saying? Like if you
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: trying to work and you playing nothing but chop videos, you can't expect somebody to call you to play patterns.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: You know, like showcase that you can play patterns within your child. You know what I'm saying? Like showcase, showcase what you would do on a show. That's that's what I did in real time in my life. But when I got outside, when I got called, man, I was trying to show everybody what I can really do. Like,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: you know, and I feel the same way about social media. I definitely need to turn up on the social media side more, but Like that's what I feel about social media, man, is that cash just need to redefine that. Like, don't just do chops, like take a show, take a song, take your your favorite song, whatever, and play it. Play it like you're
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: going on that tour tomorrow. Tag
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: these MDs, get on folks' nerves. It's okay. It's okay. They gonna see you,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yep.
TurnThePAYGE: and that's what's That's what it's about. And then when you get that call,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: That's what it's about.
TurnThePAYGE: be triply ready. Be like
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: triply ready. Like, nah, you don't gotta tell me not to play all these chops in this rehearsal because I know I'm in a rehearsal. I don't need to be you
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: didn't hire me for that. You didn't hire
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: me for that, man. So do do the do the backside work, man. For real. Everybody
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: see the muscles. If I see that that's a sharky one. If I see the muscles, everybody don't see the work at five a.m.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right. Shout out to Shark.
TurnThePAYGE: Shout out to Big Shark.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah. Legend, man. I that cat. I love that dude. Listen,
TurnThePAYGE: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mara, I think you just you nailed it in my opinion. On the the right approach if you're trying to also do what you do. Right. If you just want to be on the social media bag, great. You know, get get to it. Get the likes, get the follows.
TurnThePAYGE: Did that say?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, do it, do what you gotta do, but Recognizing that it is a different muscle to show restraint and be able to play repetitive things over and over again. There was there was a video of Aaron, Aaron Spears, rest in peace to the the greatest. And he was on drummy,
TurnThePAYGE: Yeah, I believe.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: and he was he was talking about playing the parts. He was like, if you take this pro tool session, you will see these patterns are exactly the same every single time. And where I take this fill is exactly the same space every single time. He's like, I'm not changing it from you know triplets to sixteenths every night. He's like, No, no, no, no, no. You all essentially was he was getting at you gotta find joy in the restraint. You gotta find joy
TurnThePAYGE: Uh-huh.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: in the repetition of giving the artist, giving your bandmates that consistency every single night, versus
TurnThePAYGE: So now
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: I got two two beats to take this. I'm like I don't think that was the right thing to do right there and your artist is going, Hey, you good?
TurnThePAYGE: Hey, hey, the funniest is when the one person you don't even know that you ain't even talked to come up to you at the end of the show and be like, hey, I'm the lighting director. You gonna do that? Cause I've programmed everything what you're doing. And you ain't
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes.
TurnThePAYGE: been doing that. That's what it's
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes, man.
TurnThePAYGE: like. again, what you say earlier, serving the music is bigger than me. Like.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: It's bigger than me.
TurnThePAYGE: It don't matter. You just do one little crash, crash, crash. They didn't program that. They've been living with this stuff since the
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: day you started rehearsal. They've been sending files.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right. Man, that's that's massive. So I I gotta ask one one more musician thing because I know drummers will be upset if I don't ask another music question. When it comes down to the younger generation and specifically drummers, what are the skills and things that they need from a drummer standpoint? Because we've already talked about the business, we've talked about the branding, we've talked about having respect and the developing the rapport and relationships. We've already covered that. Now, what is it that these drummers need to have now? And for example, electronics, right? We can confidently say if you don't play electronics at this point, I I don't know what to tell you. Like you gotta do that. Otherwise most gigs will pass you by because you simply do not have that skill set. So what types of things in that realm would you say drummers, if you're looking to do this, you should be able to do this.
TurnThePAYGE: let's start from the beginning, man. You should be able to lock with a metronome.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: You should be able to hear that the track is a little off of the metronome and realize turn the metronome down and play to the track. You should you should again go back to being a chameleon. Everybody don't like triggers. Sorry. Everybody don't like you playing your little sounds. That's for me. That ain't for you.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Ha ha ha.
TurnThePAYGE: That was for y'all, world. That was for me. Hey, right on like you playing your little sounds. Okay. So be a chameleon. If they want them drums, give them them drums. Knowing
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: what to play, because you you if you play sounds a lot, you run into this. Knowing what to play when you don't have them sounds. When you don't, like now you gotta play drums. But that's originally what the thing was. You had to play drums over this stuff. You didn't have the sound. So
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes.
TurnThePAYGE: knowing what to play, when to play. Have a good work ethic, man. Showing up on time. If you show up to church late, you're gonna show up to rehearsal late. And you gonna get sent home. You're gonna show up to
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yep.
TurnThePAYGE: your flight late. You're gonna miss your flight. Be on time, man. Be be responsible. Be respectful, bro. Learning to keep your attitude, man. That's what I say. Learning to keep your attitude.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: It's massive.
TurnThePAYGE: you could you can work with your best friend and they piss you off. You gotta learn how to be like, okay, you got it, man. It's all good. And them
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: not feel that. okay. No, like for real, like, nah, it's cool. Like I've worked with my best friend and it has not been that. And and We had to develop that later, you know. Like I had to come back
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: and do a gig with him that I was such a subservient. Like I was like, bro, like whatever you want. He was like, Peak, you so cool. I'm like, I'm proving to you I can be cool now. Like, you know what I'm
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: saying? Like, so be cool from day one. Like, don't if you're watching this podcast, if you're watching these type of things, take these lessons and actually apply them. Don't like, don't have to come back later. And live life and then have to deal with this again. You get what I'm saying? So like, for
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: real, watch your attitude. Be be cool. Especially if you the new guy. If you the new guy in the industry, bro, hey, listen. Come in for this one, listen, okay? This is a secret. Don't tell nobody. Right? This between us. All right. It is okay to say yes. All these people gonna tell you, get your money, and it don't work like that. You ain't in the game. You can't dictate nothing. Not one thing. So your yes is for you. It ain't for them. It ain't for the homie
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: over there. Now, if you've been in this thing for 10 years and taking $200, that's on you. You stupid. But if you you the new guy, hey, bro,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: people, people don't know this about me, bro. But I am king of a yes. Yeah, I got
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: you, bro. It don't matter. I'm trying to always trying to prove my point somewhere. I'm always trying to
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: let people know about turning the page somewhere, bro. I don't, I don't
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: care. Is that bread comes, money comes, money goes. You know what I'm saying? But what you want to do is be in the game. What you want to do is be in this industry. So why are you standing on values that ain't yours? Define
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: your values. Come in the game with a yes on your heart and a shut up on your lips and see how far you go. Everybody's
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Come on.
TurnThePAYGE: gonna want to call you. Then everybody's gonna want to work with you. Then your price don't went
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: up. You can't tell somebody I need $1,000 a day if you ain't never made more than $300 a day. But when that person
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: That's real.
TurnThePAYGE: pays you $500 a day for the next tour, guess what your rate is now? $500 a day. Now you can demand
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right. Right.
TurnThePAYGE: that, bro. Can't demand that coming out of Second Baptist National Church, bro. You can't do that.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right, right. And no shame. It's just what it is.
TurnThePAYGE: It ain't no shade, bro. I grew up in cathedral of faith, Koji. I'm
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes. Yes, sir.
TurnThePAYGE: I'm a Koji baby. I love the Lord. even though I be hood sometimes. I love the Lord, but boy,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes, sir.
TurnThePAYGE: I got a yes in my heart. And that that yes has helped me and and push me to so many more levels, man. Humble yourself. If you the new guy, bro, you do two, three tours. Don't come back with that hockey mess, that what they call the LA attitude or Hollywood attitude, bro. Don't come back with
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah. That's a fact.
TurnThePAYGE: that. Bro, people are way more willing to call the cool guy than they are the Hollywood guy, bro. And if they do call you, they talk
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Oof.
TurnThePAYGE: about you behind your back. Well, honey, I promise
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Man.
TurnThePAYGE: you, they are all man. This dude think he all that. Yo, listen. Show up, play your drums. Re realize this is the business. This is not a family reunion. This is a business. Show
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right. Right.
TurnThePAYGE: up, do your business, and go home and kick it with your family, and then you can do all of that over there. But at
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: There you go.
TurnThePAYGE: least you're gonna be working. At least you're gonna be getting to it. At least you're gonna be doing what you've been trying to do. Now I am not saying get screwed, but I'm saying we all have though.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: yes.
TurnThePAYGE: I'm saying we all have. And we
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: yes.
TurnThePAYGE: all have been pushed to a new plateau from it. You get what I'm saying? So like,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: don't just, I'm sorry. Man, some of my examples be so rude. I'll be having to watch myself in my head while I'm talking to you. But you know, like, you
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: No, but I think you're doing it right, yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: know, don't, don't just let somebody take advantage of you. But
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: understand what is taking advantage of you if you have nothing. You have nothing.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Okay, that was gonna be one of my last questions, but I gotta pivot to something because you just said it. And if you're willing to dive down this round with me, I would love to go. Say no more,
TurnThePAYGE: Hey, I canceled my day for you, baby. I'm here. We talking.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: let's get to it then. So I I asked Josh this question. I actually asked BFM this question too. And I would love to get your take on it. Growing up, and even now, we hear these mantras of Get to it and you know, you'll figure it out or know your worth or you know, don't get screwed, but you ain't really done anything. So, you know what I'm saying? Like we we keep hearing these one with these one-liners.
TurnThePAYGE: Mm-hmm.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: But my question is, how does somebody know if no one's willing to defiant? Right? We can't, we can't, there's no place for us to go. And I I gave this analogy, I believe, to Josh, but it's let's say I want to be a teacher, right?
TurnThePAYGE: Mm-hmm.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: I can go online right now and find the base pay for most teachers. I could find if I get a bachelor's what it looks like, if I get a master's, what it looks like, you can find the tier system. But if
TurnThePAYGE: Mm-hmm.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: we now pivot to the musicians, bro, there we can't say, you're playing a club gig. This is on average how much you get paid. Or you're doing a house of blues or an amphitheater, you're going to there's no metric. But then
TurnThePAYGE: Mm-hmm.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: we'll we'll hear from our OGs, man, y'all taking these low rates, y'all messing up the industry. Okay, I hear you. But no one was willing to help. No one was willing to help define this. We can't find this information anywhere. And then my other point was how do I tell someone who doesn't have anything not to go out? I'm just gonna throw a random number out, not to go out for 350 a day when at home they weren't gonna make that that week. But then we'll say, you mess up the industry by taking 350 a day for an arena gig. Okay, but, but, but, but they didn't have anything else going on. They weren't gonna make that amount of money being at the crib. So how can I tell someone, nah, you messing it up? No, they got kids, they got rent, they got lights, they got a wife,
TurnThePAYGE: So then it's words for that.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: they gotta figure this out. So how do we, how do we change this environment? Can we change it? Is there a way to define this? Like, what's your thoughts on this, the money conversation? And and I'm not asking you to tell us your numbers because I don't think we should ever do that.
TurnThePAYGE: A million dollars. A million dollars a day, babe. Nah, I'm playing. I'm playing. I'm tripping. I'm tripping. Nah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: first off, man, you can't tell a man nothing if you ain't feeding
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: that man. That's number one hundred. Well, let me tell you something. Okay. Like, how you gonna tell a man how to eat if you ain't feeding him?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: period and if it's an arena gig and it's paying 350 a day and you don't got no gig you gonna take it so I don't wanna hear
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Real.
TurnThePAYGE: it. I don't wanna hear it. And again going back to all right I'm a study. Right. I remember Josh Foster playing with Lyric at a festival. I was doing
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm-hmm.
TurnThePAYGE: Bossi, he was playing with Larry white at a festival killer. Next thing I know
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Killing.
TurnThePAYGE: I saw him With Cameo. Next thing I know, I saw him doing the Stellars. Next thing I know, he's moving here. He's moving here. Now he's with Renee Rao. Now he's doing Jeezy. Now he's doing, you know, me. I started with Dietrich, then went
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: to music. Whatever those rates was, it didn't matter. I wanted to go out and I got out. And
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: now You know, we doing what we doing with Sunday and everybody else in the world. Jarvis, you started as a tech, you started doing playback. You met DJ,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yep.
TurnThePAYGE: you met some people, you did your thing, you got a drum gear. You can say, I play drums and keys, nigga. Now you can define
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: what your rate is.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: you can't tell a man, hey, look, get in the game. That's my that's my perspective. Okay. We can't tell Lil Bronny how to cross somebody up. You don't play in the NBA. You play
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right. Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: in the NBA. Okay. You can't tell him how to play that doggone game. One thing that I will say though is Not we're getting to that OG place. I don't want to teach my YN's. I don't want to teach my dudes like, hey man, don't take this gig because it is money. I want to teach them how to make more money.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm. Yes, sir.
TurnThePAYGE: They paying you how much? Okay. You gotta take out drums? They renting drums? Okay. Talk to them about this. See if you can move some money on this side. Hey, do this one and don't say nothing.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: Come back the next time. And it's ways to move the business. It's ways to get to a figure. You get what I'm
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: saying? But You coming in like and that that again, sometimes B agree with me and sometimes he don't. One of the main
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure.
TurnThePAYGE: things that Brian told me, and this is my friend, this is my best friend, this is my brother, okay? We were having a conversation before the sister thing. And I was like, Man, yeah, like I've only been paid this. I feel like I deserve this. And he said, Okay, so what you working on right now? I was like, Well, you know, I work with Brandy, I work with Kelly Rowan, I with he said, No, right now. What are you doing?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, right now.
TurnThePAYGE: none of them gigs is happening right now? You're not doing anything right now, bro. You can't demand some money. Get another situation. Then you can talk about what you're doing currently to get to the so
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: if you're not in the game and you got big homies who've been in the game telling you the game and you feel like you can come in with that same mindset. You're not them. You haven't been in the game for however long they've been in the game to have that mindset. So you can't come
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: in with that at all. I feel,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes.
TurnThePAYGE: I feel like put your best foot forward and then come in and prove yourself. And I hate to use that word of prove yourself, but you you mentioned in in you know, your platform with Josh Foster, gatekeepers. And all of those things,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm-hmm.
TurnThePAYGE: man. It's like, bro, there's no gatekeepers. People just pick who they trust. So you need
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: That's so real.
TurnThePAYGE: to prove that somebody can trust you.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: I can't say that any better, bro. I think that's a a flawless way of approaching that. And I I I'm glad I asked you that question because I think you you attacked it not from a different standpoint, but I think your word choice will resonate with people a little bit differently than maybe what I might have said. And that's all that matters, because we're saying the same thing, but we just say it a little bit differently. But man, I I I really hope people understand that that we can't tell you what to do. I can strongly advise, but also I've had my mentors be like, Bro, you ain't done shit, so go. And then I've also had those same people be like, Hey man, you've done a couple world tours at this point. I don't think you need to do this anymore. Cool. That's the right people in the right framework. But at first, when my rates weren't cool and I was doing sprinter vans and sharing hotel rooms and all that, the Purdean wasn't sweet. Yeah, but niggas like, yo, you ain't done anything. So to your point, nobody trusts you. Nobody knows you yet to sit behind that instrument and lead a band because that is the truth. When we sit behind those drums, any drummer who sits down, you are leading the band. MD or not, you are leading the band. The band is gonna sound like doo-doo if we sound like doo-doo.
TurnThePAYGE: Mm-hmm.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: But nobody knows you yet, bro. So get get those reps in. And then, but they also gamed it up to where And I I hope people who are maybe trying to get into torrent space but not there yet, they taught me to take those small situations and learn. Learn how to talk to the TM, learn how to talk
TurnThePAYGE: Uh-huh.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: to the PM, learn how to have a conversation with your front in the house. And maybe you're not even traveling with your audio team. So you have to communicate with a new front in the house and a new monitoring every single night.
TurnThePAYGE: So the map.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Can you learn how to get the best out of them without making it feel like you're stepping on their toes? They taught me that of when you go, it's not just about the check. Yeah, I know your rate is doo-doo. Yeah, we know. But you can learn so much in this three-month sprinter van situation if you just look around and realize there's so many more opportunities. So when
TurnThePAYGE: Mm-hmm.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: you finally get a scissor gig, you finally get a Tate McCray gig, you're not fucking it up. You now are having conversations like you just talked about. You chill with your front of the house engineer until 12 AM to go through sounds. Hey, man, the tones on here isn't good. The feel here is clashing. Bro, if you didn't do that early on and realize how to have a conversation with the front of the house, man, that this would have never happened.
TurnThePAYGE: Let's go back. Let's go back. Let's take a step back because we we're in the wheelhouse, right? I got the call to do the brandy tour. I didn't ask for the money. I just went. Just went. Three days
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Wow.
TurnThePAYGE: before it left. I just went. And who do I end up on tour with? Tim Hibrid or Phil Strong. Eight years ago. I end
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Wow.
TurnThePAYGE: up on tour with them. Things happened. They left. I stayed. Five years later, I end up in Sudden with him. The world is this big, but the game is this small, bro. You
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes, sir.
TurnThePAYGE: meet the same people going up
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes, sir.
TurnThePAYGE: as you do coming down around and all the things, bro. So
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: if I would have been like, bro, y'all calling me last minute, y'all know who I am, boy, boy, TCP, boy, let's stop it. I need to get that money. Nope. I could have ruined. An amazing situation that panned out for me later. Like I ended up playing drums on the ice cube record. I ended up MDing
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: Brandy for a little while. I ended up working with Phil Strong and Tim Himberry. Ended up with them on scissor. Like ended up meeting all of these people. All this stuff came back around. Back around. So if you don't jump in the game, you never gonna have that experience when it comes back around. They actually Because here's the thing too, is that bro, unfortunately, it's 50 of us drummers. It is.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes.
TurnThePAYGE: I have to live with this realization every day. And I'm hoping that you are hearing me right now to play your drums, but do other stuff too. Okay?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: Real talk. But it's 50 of us. So you turning down this little 350 a day ain't gonna stop the train from moving. They're gonna call somebody else. Call somebody else. And they're not gonna lose no sleep. They're not gonna be like, man, page turn down to 350. No, they're gonna call somebody else. Don't be thirsty, but be hungry. And boy, I'm hungry.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
TurnThePAYGE: Hungry enough to eat your food. Know that.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: So be hungry. Be hungry. If that food comes on your plate, go eat.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Go eat.
TurnThePAYGE: Then then finish that. And then you got. Now you have what you didn't have before, which is relationship. We're not talking about the
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: money. Whatever you do with the money, save your money, kids, save your money on tour, all of those things.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Save your money. Yep.
TurnThePAYGE: But more than the money, now you have a relationship. Now you have an MD who has spent the last six months with you. Now trust you. Now seen everything about you, your habits, what you do, how you play, your work ethic. And now they're gonna want to use you again.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
TurnThePAYGE: Sometimes I've gone to eat in this day and age, I've gone to MDs, I've talked to MDs, I've gotten called for situations. Money, what's the money? All right, cool, man. Listen, for you to build with you, and I got you. I got you. And
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Let's run it. Yeah, let's run this play.
TurnThePAYGE: I show up like I show up for scissors, or like I show up for Brandy, or like I show up for any other client that I get, I'm gonna show up with 100%. Because that's what the game is really about. We get it confused because we see these dudes on the stage or we see these dudes with money and all of this stuff. Bro, it's not about that. It's about relationships. That's the only way you're gonna be able to work. That's the only way you're gonna be able to sustain in the game, bro. Sticks Taylor, relationships, king of relationships. Brian,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes. Relationship. Yes, he is.
TurnThePAYGE: king of relationships, bro. Me, I
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Absolutely.
TurnThePAYGE: worked on my relationships. I talked. I man, listen, I bring up old times. I remember first time I met T on a cruise. Okay. And
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: he and he produced You Survive. I hope he sees this too. And he produced You Survive by James Fortune. And when I was going through, that was my song. And I tell him, I
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Wow.
TurnThePAYGE: make relationships, bro. I make relationships. Going back to what you said. Might have a friend of the house different every night. Man, I make a friend in every room I'm in. In every room
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: I'm in. So when I ask for what I'm asking for, or when I need what I need, I got somebody fighting for me, bro. You ain't you ain't always gonna be able to go to the table. You're not gonna always
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: be able to sit there and be like, yo, but the drummer needs this. Sometimes, bro, you you need somebody that's gonna advocate for you. And you better
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: hope you've done everything that you need to do for them to say, bro, nah, pay them that money. Or Yo, no, we we each yeah. You know what I'm saying?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah. Genius. That that was that's flawless. So what's next for you, Paige? I know I know you got your artistry and everything last, but what what's coming up for you?
TurnThePAYGE: Man, so right now, I'm I'm literally just getting off tour with Quinn, Chinese pop artist. And I'm back in LA. I'm around looking to work with some new clients and some new people. still got the jam going every Tuesday. I'm in the studio, working on my project, working on other people's project, man. Yeah, I'm just looking to work with some new fun people, man. I'm really wanna pop into the K pop scene. I really wanna go all the way pop, like so it was RB pop, but I I definitely really want to go into like the pop pop side of things.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
TurnThePAYGE: I don't think I was yet, man. so yeah, man, just working to get to what's next.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: I love that man. So where where can people find you if they wanna to pay attention to your journey? And everybody should, by the way, because it's it's a phenomenal journey to be a part of. But where can they find you?
TurnThePAYGE: Man, I appreciate it. Yeah, you can tap in at turn turn the page T-U-R-N-T-A-T P-A-Y-G-E Pro P R O on Instagram. And that's also my website as well. So turn the pagepro dot com, man. You just tap in with me, you know, reach out, even on No, I haven't watched the consultation side of things yet, the lessons, the even conversations, man. I'm I'm always here to help anybody that I can to get to that next level and to that next place in the game. It's not that people don't have people to reach out to. They just don't.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Man, that's real. And Paige is not a liar, by the way. If he's saying reach out, reach out. He's not
TurnThePAYGE: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: BSing you. So, man, thank you, Paige, for just taking time today, bro. It it means a lot to me that that you carved out time to be on the platform and share your story, share your share all the wealth of knowledge that you've generated so far. And then share with us where you're going, bro. I think the world needs to hear your voice and see your face and and and know. who you are, what you're about, so they can see and feel your energy, get your spirit, bro. So thank you. I really appreciate it.
TurnThePAYGE: Yo, thank you for doing this podcast, man. And you know, I've definitely seen how you've been moving and what you're doing, bro. And I'm just glad to be a part, man. I I say it all the time. I I consider you, DJ, all of y'all my real friends, man, and people that I would love to, you know, connect with and and and hang out with more, man. So anything you need, bro, I'm always here.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: That's love. Well, thank you, man. Thanks everybody for listening.