Catalyst Collab: Ameerah Palacios | Make Water Work 045

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Language: en
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I'm Isaac with 120 Water
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>> and I'm Chelsea with [music] Rogue Water
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and we're excited to welcome you to the
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Make Water Work and Catalyst Collab.
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>> [music]
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>> Well, hello everyone and welcome to the
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Make Water Work Catalyst Collab. This is
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a special series that we're co-producing
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with Chelsea Boozer from Rogue Water
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Lab. Um, and these are speakers and
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thinkers that connect to Catalyst, which
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is an immersive water communications
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event slashexperience. And so, um, we've
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been really fortunate to get to feature
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so many of the guides that have been
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part of, um, Catalyst experiences in the
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past and they're going to be part of
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the, uh, upcoming Catalyst experience.
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And so, Chelsea, I'm so excited that we
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get to do this together. So, tell us
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about our guest today. Yeah, these have
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been so fun. um especially excited
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excited for today's guest because she is
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not only like a friend and personal
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mentor but a career mentor uh for me as
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well. So we have Amira Palasios. She is
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the director of engagement for STB's
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national um water factory. She also sits
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on Rogue Water Labs uh border uh well
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leadership council. So welcome.
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>> Thank you for having me.
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Well, thank you for joining. Um, we've
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had so many great conversations um over
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the past year since I met you at
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Catalyst for the first time last year.
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Um, but to start off this podcast, I've
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never met anyone who didn't have a story
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about how water found them. So, Amamira,
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how did water find you?
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>> So, you could say I found my flow into
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water. Um really uh it's for me it
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started with storytelling and working in
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the public sector as a public
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information officer and this foundation
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of just looking at information and
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asking that key question of um how is
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this shared and depending on how we
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share information that either produces
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trust or produces skepticism. So even
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when I work journalists there's this
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sense of well how do we put facts
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together and tell a story? How do we
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make content delicious? What how do we
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make people want to lean in and learn
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about something? And so that that has
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always been my foundation looking at
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storytelling and um public information.
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And then when I started working in the
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public sector, it became more of um how
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can we make sure that the public is
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informed that they know what to do? How
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can we make sure that they understand
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how this situation or what's going on,
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how it impacts community and their lives
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and and what they can do with
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information. So, so much of being in
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water has been about um being
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missiondriven and really looking at the
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opportunity of using public information
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um as a means to invite people in and to
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listen and to and tell a very delicious
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story that keeps um keeps us informed
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also just just a little entertained.
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>> I love that you said delicious. I think
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in the water sector we we need to
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completely change how we look at
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communicating and um you know not just
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communicating at you have so much
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background in history and I also love
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your story from journalism to public
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education to um the water sector. You
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have so much background in helping
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utilities and public agencies build
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trust navigate through crisis and and
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hopefully we'll get into some of those
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stories today too. I guess just to
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start, how do you define the difference
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between just the um compliance driven
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outreach that you know we have to do in
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the sector versus genuine community
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engagement?
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>> Yeah. Uh compliance driven outreach
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really we're answering a question. What
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are we required to do and what are we
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required to say? Right. Again, focusing
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in on the requirement. Authentic
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community engagement answers a different
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question. what do we need people to
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understand and to trust for this to be
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successful? And so though those things
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are related, but they're not the same.
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>> Yeah.
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>> I find that um a lot of the the
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templates and things that compliance
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driven communication kind of forces on
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utilities, they're not necessarily
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designed for us to communicate well, but
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they're there. They're a resource.
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They're a start, but they shouldn't be
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the endgame. U we should be looking at
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those those templates and things as a
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foundation. we should be really leaning
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into how we can um best communicate
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with, you know, stakeholders and the
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public and elected officials to really
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um help them understand and and trust um
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throughout the situation.
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>> Yeah.
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>> I I love to, you know, these templates
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are resources so people grab on to them,
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but they really weren't meant to be the
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end all be all. Like this is all you do
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and you check your box. Um, but I also
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understand it can be scary to genuinely
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engage because that means you're
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listening and getting feedback and how
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you're incorporating that. I loved uh
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last year in 2025, you were a guide at
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Catalyst and you walked attendees
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through what a crisis might look like
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and how those scary events might pop up.
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Can you
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>> most terrifying experience of my life
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[laughter]
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>> as a participant? No. Um, it was so it
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was so well created to um simulate for
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me who actually
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>> I'm a water communications from a
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technology standpoint but not a public
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communications. Um, so actually saying
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what is it like to have a crisis you
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have to react to in real time and every
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stakeholder or character all of a sudden
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is throwing something at you. the mayor,
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the uh health, the public. There's all
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these ingredients. You created an
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experience that elevated my anxiety
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and taught me a little bit of of how to
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manage that. But walk us through that.
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>> Yeah. Uh I thought it was important to
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create a simulation that was rooted in,
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you know, things that I had readily
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experienced as a PIO and actually, you
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know, in embedded with a utility. And so
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I thought it was important to think
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about, yes, on paper there's a plan,
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there's a protocol, there's messaging
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templates, and everything's going to go
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exactly as planned. And it's like it
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doesn't. Um things tend to escalate.
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People that you thought you could count
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on, all of a sudden they are they're
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nowhere to be found or um you know,
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you're you're put to the test during a
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high stakes messaging um incident. And I
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think it's important for people to not
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only just have a crisis communications
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plan, to actually lean in with your team
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and to actually test that plan because
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what you think uh will happen, you know,
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people will surprise you. It doesn't go
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go on just as as perfect as as you
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planned. And so while the adrenaline is
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pumping and your heart's like pumping in
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your chest, it's good to to put that
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messaging to the test and say, um, is
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this realistic? you know, are we are we
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bringing in, you know, the folks that
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need to be involved? Often times,
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utilities will have a crisis
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communications plan and not involve
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their elected officials, but those are
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the first people who jump in front of a
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camera and want to take control, want to
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explain things. And so it's important to
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uh develop uh you know crisis
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simulations that involve those
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stakeholders who will need to
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communicate something and to give them a
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job and give them purpose and say hey um
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when this happens this is what you're
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going to do and this is what I'm going
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to do together when this gets out to the
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public you know this is these are the
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resources and things you will go to in
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order to communicate that day and I
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think it's um it's important to do these
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things because you know there are a lot
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of things that can throw you for a loop.
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you know, during during a crisis and
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whether it's uh having, you know, you
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know, activist messaging or elected
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official that doesn't stay on the script
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and then kind of kind of go off the
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rails. What do you do with that when
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you're trying to communicate about
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public health, when you're trying to
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communicate about, you know, uh public
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transparency and things that really
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really matter? Um, and so this crisis
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simulation was meant to just throw all
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of that at the catalyst participants and
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say, "What will you do now?" then you
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know now you're you know communicating
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under pressure underwater and you're
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having to claw out a a really sticky um
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situation and so what I found was um
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actually the catalyst participants they
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were right on their toes and a lot of
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them um were ready to give a presser you
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know within within minutes and I was
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really thrilled to see that people were
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asking the right questions as far as
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well but why is this person doing this
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and what is our service area who we
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actually talking to who's impacted by
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this. And sometimes when um you know so
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much information is thrown at us and
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we're having to put together um what
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those core messages are, we have to
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decide what not to communicate. That
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sometimes is just as important as as
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what to communicate. So yeah, the crisis
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simulation is kind of one of the mo most
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talked about things that people see me
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at their conference. I went to that
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simulation. Oh my goodness.
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>> Yeah, Jess, that was so good.
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>> Yeah. for top rated sessions and you
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know under pressure underwater they were
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in an aquarium like underwater and so um
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but I think more than just being fun and
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you say you know a lot of them they were
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ready and they were ready to um give
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their pressures but actually practicing
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this is really important and so yeah I
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was grateful for you being there and
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giving everyone the opportunity to under
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this not real incident practice this
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before it actually comes out Because
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inevitably these kind things come up
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everywhere.
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>> Yeah. I mean we we build communication
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plans but do we test them?
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>> You know do we do we actually help the
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folks that will need those those
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messaging templates and things? Yeah.
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>> We give them the opportunity to sort of
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socialize them to make them um
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personable to put in their own voice and
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their own words and to most importantly
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those who um are a stakeholder and we'll
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we'll be communicating regardless how we
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how we given them a purpose. Abby said,
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"Okay, when this happens, you may hear
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about this.
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>> Hey, during this situation, this is what
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we really need for you to do. This is
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what is most helpful." Um, and and when
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there is ambiguity and uncertainty, that
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is when a utility is obligated to, you
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know, really give clarity. And that's
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that's what those crisis simulations are
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about. just really helping them glean
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through the noise, getting to the core
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message, and making sure that they're um
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engaging early and often um during an
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escalating situation or crisis.
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>> Yeah. Yeah. I think that that's that
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that point of, you know, being very
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aware of what not to communicate is is
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really I think was one of the unlocks
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for me during that session because in
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the midst of a crisis, like I can't
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necessarily
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fault an elected official who has done
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the work to garner a lot of trust with
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the community to get to that spot anyway
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to feel the need of like I need to say
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something that relieves fears. s if if
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they don't have the information or
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you're not in lock step, you're risking
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them saying something before it's ready
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or or promising something that they
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can't say and you're just and and you
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lose
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>> Yeah.
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>> you lose the narrative
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>> pretty latigious. You know, people are
00:11:58.160 --> 00:12:01.670
very, you know, hesitant to to speak
00:12:01.680 --> 00:12:03.350
situation, especially if there are very
00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:05.829
obvious harms and impacts. People start
00:12:05.839 --> 00:12:07.509
to lawyer up and then all of a sudden
00:12:07.519 --> 00:12:09.430
we're not we're not talking to the
00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:11.670
community anymore. And so where there is
00:12:11.680 --> 00:12:14.310
an absence or silence, that's where
00:12:14.320 --> 00:12:16.790
people can um start to speculate. That's
00:12:16.800 --> 00:12:19.590
where skepticism um comes in and that's
00:12:19.600 --> 00:12:21.829
when you're losing the battle um you
00:12:21.839 --> 00:12:23.590
know on you know public trust but that's
00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:26.710
also an opportunity um to get it right
00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:29.269
and I find that in these types of
00:12:29.279 --> 00:12:33.509
situations um you know action strategy
00:12:33.519 --> 00:12:37.110
is the most important thing that uh it
00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:38.710
can help you as far as strategic
00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:40.629
communications. So people want to know
00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:42.230
if there's some kind of special sauce
00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:44.150
to, you know, crisis messaging. It's
00:12:44.160 --> 00:12:45.670
like, are you doing the right thing
00:12:45.680 --> 00:12:47.670
first? And so that that's a very simple
00:12:47.680 --> 00:12:49.829
thing. Are we are we being transparent?
00:12:49.839 --> 00:12:51.190
Are we are we doing the right thing? Are
00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:52.949
we actually telling the truth? And how
00:12:52.959 --> 00:12:54.710
can we demonstrate that? I think that
00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:56.230
during the situations when you are
00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:57.990
rebuilding public trust when something
00:12:58.000 --> 00:12:59.990
has happened and maybe there has been
00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:02.069
harm that you have to acknowledge, it's
00:13:02.079 --> 00:13:03.910
important that people see you doing the
00:13:03.920 --> 00:13:06.230
right thing. And that that is the lens
00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:09.030
that I try to advise my client through.
00:13:09.040 --> 00:13:10.629
But sometimes that's not, you know, I'm
00:13:10.639 --> 00:13:12.629
the first to push back and say, is that
00:13:12.639 --> 00:13:15.910
the right thing? You know, um the people
00:13:15.920 --> 00:13:18.470
that are impacted by this, how will they
00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:20.790
feel? And are we saying something that
00:13:20.800 --> 00:13:22.550
is going to make them even more anxious
00:13:22.560 --> 00:13:25.269
or or more distrustful? And we have to
00:13:25.279 --> 00:13:27.110
first address the action strategy before
00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:29.110
we lean into the messaging. If you're
00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:30.550
not doing the right thing, there's no
00:13:30.560 --> 00:13:33.350
press release or or, you know, messaging
00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:34.470
document that's going to help you
00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:36.069
through that. Sometimes to get through
00:13:36.079 --> 00:13:37.990
it, you have to do maybe the more
00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:40.230
challenging and and hard thing that is
00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:41.269
the thing first.
00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:41.590
>> Yeah.
00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:43.829
>> Yeah, that's so good. I was talking to a
00:13:43.839 --> 00:13:47.269
utility uh last week and they had was
00:13:47.279 --> 00:13:48.949
too much going on. They weren't really
00:13:48.959 --> 00:13:51.509
able to respond timely to things and
00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:52.949
they said, "Well, how do I message
00:13:52.959 --> 00:13:55.110
that?" And I said, "Well, you know,
00:13:55.120 --> 00:13:57.189
messaging and community engagement is
00:13:57.199 --> 00:14:00.870
something marketing." So marketing a a
00:14:00.880 --> 00:14:04.150
bad service, you could do that, right?
00:14:04.160 --> 00:14:06.389
that's not what roada and that's not
00:14:06.399 --> 00:14:08.389
what we're trying to help this industry
00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:10.150
do. So I think that point is really
00:14:10.160 --> 00:14:13.670
important. I also touching on something
00:14:13.680 --> 00:14:16.870
both said on the when there are gaps in
00:14:16.880 --> 00:14:19.110
information and Isaac talking about all
00:14:19.120 --> 00:14:20.710
the different players like you had to
00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:23.030
communicate to in that simulation. The
00:14:23.040 --> 00:14:24.949
other thing, you know, I've learned in
00:14:24.959 --> 00:14:26.870
studying with different communities is
00:14:26.880 --> 00:14:30.710
that when there are information gaps and
00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:32.310
so you have these trusted different
00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:35.829
voices either amplifying or validating
00:14:35.839 --> 00:14:37.430
information that the community is
00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:39.110
getting from whether that's elected
00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:40.949
officials or your regulator or your
00:14:40.959 --> 00:14:43.110
reporter. And if you are the information
00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:45.110
holder as a utility and you're not
00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:46.870
informing them that there there's an
00:14:46.880 --> 00:14:49.030
uneven information flow and you're not
00:14:49.040 --> 00:14:50.870
informing them all with the same
00:14:50.880 --> 00:14:53.269
consistent facts then things can get
00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:56.470
mixy really quick. So um yeah I love
00:14:56.480 --> 00:14:58.949
your point on the information gap.
00:14:58.959 --> 00:15:00.790
>> Yeah and I think it you know I think
00:15:00.800 --> 00:15:03.670
we're in this battle of misinformation
00:15:03.680 --> 00:15:05.590
disinformation. you know, there are
00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:08.069
people who not only spread um things
00:15:08.079 --> 00:15:10.790
that aren't are untrue, but there are
00:15:10.800 --> 00:15:12.550
people who intentionally go out to, you
00:15:12.560 --> 00:15:14.629
know, create confusion and and chaos.
00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:16.230
And so sometimes as a utility, you have
00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:19.670
to be say um hey, you know, we are your
00:15:19.680 --> 00:15:21.910
source for we are the experts on water
00:15:21.920 --> 00:15:23.990
quality in the community. We test your
00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:26.150
water hundreds of times, you know, each
00:15:26.160 --> 00:15:28.550
day to make sure it's it's safe
00:15:28.560 --> 00:15:30.230
according to the standards. And so
00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:31.670
sometimes you have to remind people that
00:15:31.680 --> 00:15:33.829
hey we are we are a credible source for
00:15:33.839 --> 00:15:35.030
these things and then show them and
00:15:35.040 --> 00:15:37.590
demonstrate that again and again
00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:41.030
>> and and reminding people is is really
00:15:41.040 --> 00:15:43.670
really important especially during
00:15:43.680 --> 00:15:45.910
>> really complex you know capital programs
00:15:45.920 --> 00:15:47.509
that span
00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:49.350
>> you know years I mean look at lead
00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:50.870
service line replacements you know for
00:15:50.880 --> 00:15:53.910
some utilities that's going to take 10
00:15:53.920 --> 00:15:56.949
20 you know for some 30 years or you
00:15:56.959 --> 00:15:58.790
know or longer because
00:15:58.800 --> 00:16:00.949
>> it is so pervasive in in in those
00:16:00.959 --> 00:16:04.230
systems. Um and so it's important to uh
00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:05.670
you know remind people of the progress
00:16:05.680 --> 00:16:07.269
and say hey this is where we are. This
00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:09.430
is where we're going as a reminder. This
00:16:09.440 --> 00:16:11.910
is the point. Um if you have questions
00:16:11.920 --> 00:16:14.550
please please call us. And I think that
00:16:14.560 --> 00:16:16.710
way to the milestones to to talk about
00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:19.749
those things. Um people people start to
00:16:19.759 --> 00:16:21.829
go well what's what's the value of this?
00:16:21.839 --> 00:16:24.150
is this is this really pinning us and
00:16:24.160 --> 00:16:26.069
what are you doing with my money? That's
00:16:26.079 --> 00:16:28.310
why I think it's so important that we uh
00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:30.470
take the time to brand and be
00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:32.069
intentional about messaging and really
00:16:32.079 --> 00:16:35.110
about message frequency and saturation
00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:38.230
starting in bit to the the the nerdy
00:16:38.240 --> 00:16:40.069
science of communications and marketing
00:16:40.079 --> 00:16:41.910
but message frequency and saturation is
00:16:41.920 --> 00:16:44.230
kind of something to keep in mind and we
00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:45.829
have to we have to budget for that and
00:16:45.839 --> 00:16:48.069
make time and hold space you know for
00:16:48.079 --> 00:16:49.590
those interactions.
00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:51.430
>> Yeah. Because it because at the end of
00:16:51.440 --> 00:16:53.910
the day, the competition is it's
00:16:53.920 --> 00:16:57.030
attention. It's it's competing for
00:16:57.040 --> 00:16:58.790
attention. We're so much of an attention
00:16:58.800 --> 00:17:03.110
economy that any anything that is
00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:07.350
newsworthy is is every influencer on the
00:17:07.360 --> 00:17:09.510
face of the planet can turn can take
00:17:09.520 --> 00:17:11.909
that as an opportunity because they know
00:17:11.919 --> 00:17:14.309
there will be attention. Um, and that's
00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:16.789
that's just that's the way our that's
00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:19.829
the way our society runs right now.
00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:21.429
They're not going to read that, you
00:17:21.439 --> 00:17:22.470
know,
00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:26.309
>> 1,000 to 2,000 word monologue of the
00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:27.750
utility have a conver technical
00:17:27.760 --> 00:17:30.390
conversation with itself. Instead, they
00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:33.590
they want something that um maybe is a
00:17:33.600 --> 00:17:35.590
bit more human, you know. Yeah.
00:17:35.600 --> 00:17:37.990
>> Have to tell engineers, you know, you
00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:39.590
are a human that's talking to other
00:17:39.600 --> 00:17:42.710
humans and it's like not seeing this in
00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:46.390
in designs and, you know, um specs and
00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:48.470
standards. They're they're thinking how
00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:50.150
is this going to impact my commute? How
00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:52.549
is this disrupting my day? Um how does
00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:54.549
this impact what what happens when I go
00:17:54.559 --> 00:17:56.150
to the faucet or when I flush my toilet
00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:58.230
or when I go fishing with my family?
00:17:58.240 --> 00:18:00.549
>> And so I think as we we navigate like
00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:02.070
failing infrastructure, I don't use
00:18:02.080 --> 00:18:04.150
aging infrastructure anymore. I say
00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:05.669
failing because just because it's old
00:18:05.679 --> 00:18:07.909
doesn't mean it's it's so I say failing.
00:18:07.919 --> 00:18:08.549
>> I like that.
00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:11.110
>> But like u we say things like waste
00:18:11.120 --> 00:18:13.190
water. Are we really wasting the water?
00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:14.789
Are we cleaning the water? you know, so
00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:17.990
words words do do matter and I think we
00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:19.350
have to get more intentional because
00:18:19.360 --> 00:18:22.310
people really aren't as literate as as
00:18:22.320 --> 00:18:24.549
we used to be. I think it's one in five
00:18:24.559 --> 00:18:26.470
adults are functionally literate. That
00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:28.549
is a very real thing. And so people
00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:29.830
aren't reading. They're kind of doom
00:18:29.840 --> 00:18:32.310
scrolling. there's there's there and so
00:18:32.320 --> 00:18:34.710
we are designing um for a very
00:18:34.720 --> 00:18:37.510
distracted public and
00:18:37.520 --> 00:18:39.430
>> it's hard to tell our very technical
00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:41.830
project teams that sometimes but you
00:18:41.840 --> 00:18:42.950
have to be able to look them in the eye
00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:44.390
and say hey I don't think people are
00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:46.950
going to read this too long
00:18:46.960 --> 00:18:50.070
>> don't read that's a real dynamic and so
00:18:50.080 --> 00:18:52.870
um making messages memorable shorter
00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:55.430
more concise plain language it's it's
00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:59.110
mattering more than than ever
00:18:59.120 --> 00:19:01.990
>> yeah the public agency side of our
00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:03.909
industry when you talk about this idea,
00:19:03.919 --> 00:19:06.310
you know, Isaac, you said competition,
00:19:06.320 --> 00:19:07.750
they're not used to thinking in those
00:19:07.760 --> 00:19:10.150
terms, what is typical monopoly, what do
00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:12.310
you mean I don't have competition? But I
00:19:12.320 --> 00:19:14.390
wish I would think in the lens of would
00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:17.830
my customer choose me and I think a lot
00:19:17.840 --> 00:19:19.830
of times, you know, in way you talked
00:19:19.840 --> 00:19:22.070
about, are you investing your resources
00:19:22.080 --> 00:19:24.150
for the consistent messaging and
00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:26.630
interaction that needs to happen? Um, a
00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:27.990
lot of times I don't think we think
00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:30.789
about that until a crisis happens and
00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:32.870
then we do it all the flooding, but it's
00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:35.029
kind of too late. In your career, you've
00:19:35.039 --> 00:19:37.830
worked in a lot of cities that have had
00:19:37.840 --> 00:19:40.630
that example. Can you talk about one
00:19:40.640 --> 00:19:42.310
like what happened? What was the hardest
00:19:42.320 --> 00:19:46.390
thing? Um, maybe give us some examples.
00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:48.470
>> Um, you know, I deal a lot in the
00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:51.190
advanced metering infrastructure space.
00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:53.350
Um, also I deal a lot with lead
00:19:53.360 --> 00:19:56.230
communications. So whether it's like uh
00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:58.150
uh service line identification or
00:19:58.160 --> 00:20:00.950
service line replacements. And so with
00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:02.870
with these types of situations like okay
00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:04.789
we are we're kind of disrupting
00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:07.350
someone's day. We're we're literally you
00:20:07.360 --> 00:20:09.510
know digging up and potholeing and
00:20:09.520 --> 00:20:12.150
inspecting a pipe or replacing a pipe.
00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:14.310
And so um we may have to turn off their
00:20:14.320 --> 00:20:16.230
water briefly to switch to switch out
00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:20.070
the pipe. and um how how are we
00:20:20.080 --> 00:20:21.430
communicating in such a way that not
00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:23.544
only just shows um empathy
00:20:23.554 --> 00:20:24.150
[clears throat]
00:20:24.160 --> 00:20:26.470
but you know can really help people just
00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:27.990
navigate and get back to what's
00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:31.350
important um to them um it could be you
00:20:31.360 --> 00:20:34.630
know I've seen where um during you know
00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:36.230
metering or like service line
00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:39.350
replacements where um bad things happen
00:20:39.360 --> 00:20:40.710
right they they get in there they start
00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:43.430
poking around and oh we have broken a
00:20:43.440 --> 00:20:46.310
hydrant or we did the replacement and we
00:20:46.320 --> 00:20:47.909
forgot have to turn the water on. And
00:20:47.919 --> 00:20:49.750
so, you know, I think those are are
00:20:49.760 --> 00:20:52.710
moments how you respond to customers and
00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:54.470
what you say when things get challenging
00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:56.549
or when, you know, something goes wrong.
00:20:56.559 --> 00:20:59.029
I think that's how customers start to
00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:01.110
define, you know, if they they trust you
00:21:01.120 --> 00:21:03.270
or not. I don't think the public expects
00:21:03.280 --> 00:21:05.350
that utilities look at every single
00:21:05.360 --> 00:21:07.830
answer correct all the time. I do think
00:21:07.840 --> 00:21:11.029
they expect um transparency and clarity
00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:13.029
and that you'll be responsive and that
00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:15.029
if something's going on, you can tell
00:21:15.039 --> 00:21:17.750
them, hey, here's what we know. Um this
00:21:17.760 --> 00:21:19.750
is when we will know more. This is what
00:21:19.760 --> 00:21:21.510
you can expect from us. This is what
00:21:21.520 --> 00:21:23.350
we're going to do now and we're here for
00:21:23.360 --> 00:21:25.270
you, you know, as we navigate this
00:21:25.280 --> 00:21:26.789
together. And I think if you can just,
00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:29.430
you know, have have that human moment of
00:21:29.440 --> 00:21:31.350
you know what, that probably didn't feel
00:21:31.360 --> 00:21:33.029
very good. We're sorry this happened.
00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:34.630
Here's here's how we're going to fix it.
00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:36.950
And it is really literally you know good
00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:39.350
customer service has to be at the heart
00:21:39.360 --> 00:21:42.870
of you know that messaging of the
00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:45.510
customer journey during these these
00:21:45.520 --> 00:21:47.669
types of problems because you know
00:21:47.679 --> 00:21:49.590
utilities are having to navigate kind of
00:21:49.600 --> 00:21:51.270
these massive transformations whether
00:21:51.280 --> 00:21:54.950
it's their customer portals or um the
00:21:54.960 --> 00:21:57.909
metering the billing um service line
00:21:57.919 --> 00:22:00.149
replacements big transmission mains you
00:22:00.159 --> 00:22:02.470
know switch outs or it could be
00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:04.310
something more of like workforce things.
00:22:04.320 --> 00:22:06.070
It's like, hey, we don't have enough
00:22:06.080 --> 00:22:08.549
folks who are are are in the field that
00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:09.990
can help us. And so, we have to change
00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:12.149
the way that we're working to to make
00:22:12.159 --> 00:22:14.950
this uh water service um to keep it
00:22:14.960 --> 00:22:16.789
affordable. We need your help. And so, I
00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:19.990
think when this works well, it's um it's
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:22.390
informing folks, but it's also inviting
00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:25.909
them to shape and and design kind of
00:22:25.919 --> 00:22:27.510
what's what's going to happen. And
00:22:27.520 --> 00:22:28.870
that's what keeps I think those
00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:31.029
engineering project teams adaptable to
00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:33.430
that. If we get into message
00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:35.430
distribution where we're just making
00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:37.110
that a oneway, hey, we're just getting
00:22:37.120 --> 00:22:39.990
the word out. Um, we miss an opportunity
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:42.950
to look at local knowledge, to look at,
00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:45.029
you know, cultural community traditions,
00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:47.029
to look at all the different things that
00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:49.510
you can't see on a map. You know,
00:22:49.520 --> 00:22:51.750
happens um with all the local schools,
00:22:51.760 --> 00:22:53.590
you know, when people are coming coming
00:22:53.600 --> 00:22:54.950
to school and you know, dropped off
00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:56.390
their kids and pick or picking up their
00:22:56.400 --> 00:22:58.710
kids or um those things that always
00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:00.710
happen, you know, you in a community at
00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:03.669
a certain time, those things don't
00:23:03.679 --> 00:23:05.270
>> aren't easily called out. But if you're
00:23:05.280 --> 00:23:08.070
listening to folks, if you honor kind of
00:23:08.080 --> 00:23:09.830
the experiences of the people in the
00:23:09.840 --> 00:23:11.669
neighborhood, that kind of that can
00:23:11.679 --> 00:23:13.669
inform a project and you can say, "Okay,
00:23:13.679 --> 00:23:16.390
oh well, during phase five of this when
00:23:16.400 --> 00:23:18.470
we're putting this parking lot. Wow,
00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:20.070
this is this is going to take out Mrs.
00:23:20.080 --> 00:23:21.909
Mabel's garden. Well, this is community
00:23:21.919 --> 00:23:23.350
garden. This little senior community has
00:23:23.360 --> 00:23:25.510
had this garden for the last 10 years.
00:23:25.520 --> 00:23:27.190
That's not off the map because they just
00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:28.710
kind of made a garden and the community
00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:30.710
always knows about it." Well, if you're
00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:32.549
not listening, you you can start to do
00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:34.070
things that are harmful just because
00:23:34.080 --> 00:23:35.669
you're not you're not looking at the
00:23:35.679 --> 00:23:39.270
people and them and how that intersects
00:23:39.280 --> 00:23:41.590
with with a project. And so deep
00:23:41.600 --> 00:23:43.830
listening while it's not, you know, it's
00:23:43.840 --> 00:23:45.590
not necessarily fun, especially when
00:23:45.600 --> 00:23:47.750
there are challenges and and it doesn't
00:23:47.760 --> 00:23:49.830
fit into your scope, schedule, budget,
00:23:49.840 --> 00:23:52.710
you know, cookie cutter template. Um I
00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:53.909
think some of the more meaningful things
00:23:53.919 --> 00:23:55.669
I've seen happen is when we have looked
00:23:55.679 --> 00:23:57.510
at something and said, "Well, let's see
00:23:57.520 --> 00:24:00.549
what we can do." um let's we can
00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:03.270
preserve these beautiful, you know,
00:24:03.280 --> 00:24:05.029
mature trees that are on this road.
00:24:05.039 --> 00:24:06.149
Maybe we don't have to cut them all
00:24:06.159 --> 00:24:08.470
down. Maybe we find a way to repurpose
00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:09.750
them. Um
00:24:09.760 --> 00:24:11.750
>> you know, I think we have to be willing
00:24:11.760 --> 00:24:14.470
to lean in and say, "How can how can we
00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:17.110
do something good? How can we listen so
00:24:17.120 --> 00:24:18.710
that the when a community looks at a
00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:20.310
design or a project, they can say, "Oh,
00:24:20.320 --> 00:24:23.430
yeah, they they talked to us and they
00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:25.830
did this with us and I can see the input
00:24:25.840 --> 00:24:27.750
in the design." I feel like that's the
00:24:27.760 --> 00:24:29.350
best compliment I've gotten on my
00:24:29.360 --> 00:24:30.789
projects is when a community member
00:24:30.799 --> 00:24:32.630
says, "Oh yeah, we've been talking about
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:33.990
this for a while. This I've been to
00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:35.750
these meetings before. I can really see
00:24:35.760 --> 00:24:37.269
how they listen to us. I can see it in
00:24:37.279 --> 00:24:38.470
the design." Actually,
00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:38.870
>> yeah.
00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:40.630
>> One time and I was kind of like,
00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:42.230
>> "That's awesome."
00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:44.390
>> Yeah. Yeah. That's beautiful.
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:45.590
>> Back with that.
00:24:45.600 --> 00:24:45.990
>> Yeah.
00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:49.269
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's also it's when you were
00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:51.029
talking about that it was reminding me
00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:53.830
like I've been wrestling with with this
00:24:53.840 --> 00:24:56.710
idea of
00:24:56.720 --> 00:24:59.350
um you know there's kind of the thing
00:24:59.360 --> 00:25:01.110
like you can't improve what you don't
00:25:01.120 --> 00:25:03.269
measure and so measurement is important
00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:05.909
and that's that's true and so it's it's
00:25:05.919 --> 00:25:08.630
important to like have that but that
00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:10.870
also provides the framing and and what
00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:13.750
you were saying where um sometimes the
00:25:13.760 --> 00:25:15.430
things that that we're measuring we need
00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:17.909
to leave some room for the things that
00:25:17.919 --> 00:25:21.029
we can't measure in our equation. Be
00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:22.710
like there's a handful of unknowns and
00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:25.430
we need to try to figure out what those
00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:28.549
are from the community in not just us us
00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:30.870
to the community. But that that exists
00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:32.549
in a space where there's some really
00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:35.510
important unlocks that that are the make
00:25:35.520 --> 00:25:37.590
or break of are they going to be engaged
00:25:37.600 --> 00:25:39.350
or bought in? Are they going to trust
00:25:39.360 --> 00:25:42.149
us? Um if we if we say well it only
00:25:42.159 --> 00:25:43.510
works within this framework because this
00:25:43.520 --> 00:25:45.510
is what we're measuring.
00:25:45.520 --> 00:25:49.510
it it comes off as um as not making
00:25:49.520 --> 00:25:53.909
space um for um for that. And so um glad
00:25:53.919 --> 00:25:55.350
you're mentioning that because I I
00:25:55.360 --> 00:25:57.430
really do believe we're at this we're at
00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:00.870
this time and age where projects have to
00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:03.430
do more than just what that technical
00:26:03.440 --> 00:26:05.909
objective is. We have to be looking
00:26:05.919 --> 00:26:08.630
bigger and making this the the outcomes
00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:11.269
more inclusive to address bigger
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:13.990
communitywide and neighborhood needs.
00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:16.630
Right? And so I think about how can we
00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:19.269
build in park amenities or put in a
00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:21.178
small pocket park as part of
00:26:21.188 --> 00:26:21.909
[clears throat]
00:26:21.919 --> 00:26:23.590
redoing that alignment or putting in
00:26:23.600 --> 00:26:26.549
that that you know transmission line or
00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:29.590
um how can we leave a bit of some art
00:26:29.600 --> 00:26:32.549
behind to help a community reflect or
00:26:32.559 --> 00:26:36.310
heal or celebrate something or or mark
00:26:36.320 --> 00:26:38.950
some sort of you know cultural tradition
00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:41.269
and honor that and acknowledge them. And
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:43.909
so I I think about ways how we can leave
00:26:43.919 --> 00:26:45.510
our community infrastructure a little
00:26:45.520 --> 00:26:47.669
better than how we found it with every
00:26:47.679 --> 00:26:51.110
project. And so I think that um STV and
00:26:51.120 --> 00:26:52.789
other firms that are really starting to
00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:55.110
move in move in that space. It's an
00:26:55.120 --> 00:26:56.789
opportunity I think for us as an
00:26:56.799 --> 00:26:59.510
industry to just be more intentional
00:26:59.520 --> 00:27:02.070
about um leaving things better than how
00:27:02.080 --> 00:27:03.669
we found it. Just beyond just the
00:27:03.679 --> 00:27:04.870
technical part of it, but really
00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:08.630
addressing the bigger um community need.
00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:11.029
I think that's so good too because I
00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:13.750
think it's also become an expectation of
00:27:13.760 --> 00:27:16.950
the community and a lot of times you
00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:19.430
know if you don't equip your staff or
00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:21.269
your infield or your public facing
00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:23.990
people to know that they are empowered
00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:27.590
to go beyond a checklist beyond the
00:27:27.600 --> 00:27:29.269
black and white what's on paper of
00:27:29.279 --> 00:27:31.430
something. I've seen a lot of times of
00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:33.269
communities asking for things like that
00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:36.549
and you know the public servant or the
00:27:36.559 --> 00:27:38.149
the consultant engineer might say oh
00:27:38.159 --> 00:27:40.470
that's not in my point of view and kind
00:27:40.480 --> 00:27:42.310
of cool right they're right but they're
00:27:42.320 --> 00:27:44.470
there for the engineering project but I
00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:46.950
love that kind of equips its people to
00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:50.470
go above and beyond and um I think this
00:27:50.480 --> 00:27:51.990
sector
00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:53.830
speaking of the workforce thing hiring
00:27:53.840 --> 00:27:57.750
more diverse minds who have these
00:27:57.760 --> 00:28:00.310
creative thoughts and specialties in,
00:28:00.320 --> 00:28:01.830
you know, better community connection
00:28:01.840 --> 00:28:03.430
and what could lead a place better than
00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:05.669
you found it. I just love that mindset
00:28:05.679 --> 00:28:07.669
and I love that you brought it up and I
00:28:07.679 --> 00:28:09.350
just love that it is, you know, like you
00:28:09.360 --> 00:28:10.870
said, happening.
00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:13.350
>> Yeah. And I think this is a time also to
00:28:13.360 --> 00:28:15.590
collaborate and build part build up
00:28:15.600 --> 00:28:20.389
partnerships. Um I I look at um you know
00:28:20.399 --> 00:28:22.950
things that are out of scope are a great
00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:25.269
opportunity to lean in and find partners
00:28:25.279 --> 00:28:27.750
and say, "Okay, that may not be out of
00:28:27.760 --> 00:28:29.029
scope and out of budget for this
00:28:29.039 --> 00:28:31.669
project, but what can be done?" You
00:28:31.679 --> 00:28:33.830
know, maybe we can get together and talk
00:28:33.840 --> 00:28:36.870
about kind of what what is possible if
00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:39.430
if we get together just beyond that that
00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:42.070
project lens and say, "Okay, what is the
00:28:42.080 --> 00:28:44.389
bigger community opportunity that we can
00:28:44.399 --> 00:28:46.950
that we can work through?" And so that's
00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:49.669
um you know with these constraints of
00:28:49.679 --> 00:28:51.269
scope schedule but these are very real
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:53.430
things. I'm not yeah discount them, but
00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:55.430
I I do think that these are
00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:57.909
opportunities to um have more community
00:28:57.919 --> 00:29:00.470
discussions about folks that do want to,
00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:01.909
you know, contribute and be at the
00:29:01.919 --> 00:29:03.430
table, whether that's, you know, the
00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:05.350
philanthropic community, the academic
00:29:05.360 --> 00:29:08.630
community, um you know, foundations and,
00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:10.470
you know, corporations that that really
00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:14.470
want to invest and can and can see um uh
00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:17.350
how to you join in and be and be part of
00:29:17.360 --> 00:29:18.710
something that's bigger than just the
00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:21.110
immediate, you know, technical project.
00:29:21.120 --> 00:29:22.389
You're right, Chelsea. I mean, people
00:29:22.399 --> 00:29:25.029
are asking um for utilities to do more
00:29:25.039 --> 00:29:27.029
and more often, often with less for
00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:28.870
things they don't even have. But since
00:29:28.880 --> 00:29:31.269
it's still utilities, assume you, you
00:29:31.279 --> 00:29:33.669
know, you do everything, right? And it's
00:29:33.679 --> 00:29:35.510
that that becomes even harder. I mean,
00:29:35.520 --> 00:29:36.710
we're we're still having this
00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:39.269
conversation around um whether it's a
00:29:39.279 --> 00:29:41.990
private lateral or a service line as a
00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:43.909
utility. This is what we are responsible
00:29:43.919 --> 00:29:46.230
for and hey homeowner, this is what we
00:29:46.240 --> 00:29:48.070
want you to do. And we're and we're
00:29:48.080 --> 00:29:50.710
still even in you know 2026 we're we're
00:29:50.720 --> 00:29:52.389
still having this conversation public
00:29:52.399 --> 00:29:55.110
education about um you know what's
00:29:55.120 --> 00:29:57.830
what's in your home and versus what's
00:29:57.840 --> 00:30:00.230
the what's own under the utility and
00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:01.990
people are we're still navigating that
00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:04.870
very fundamental um you know space. Um
00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:07.269
and that's that's
00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:09.590
hard. We still have a long way to go.
00:30:09.600 --> 00:30:12.470
>> Yeah. One thing like on those kind of
00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:15.110
scenarios I like to remind us knowing
00:30:15.120 --> 00:30:17.590
the the industry and a lot of times we
00:30:17.600 --> 00:30:20.070
can get frustrated because we're playing
00:30:20.080 --> 00:30:22.230
with a lot over and over but it's not
00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:23.750
their fault they don't know. I didn't
00:30:23.760 --> 00:30:25.669
know this before I entered the water
00:30:25.679 --> 00:30:27.990
sector right and some people do know
00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:30.870
based on other experiences and um
00:30:30.880 --> 00:30:33.190
education but yeah like it's not the
00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:35.830
public's fault if they don't know how we
00:30:35.840 --> 00:30:38.149
operate business or what a technical
00:30:38.159 --> 00:30:41.269
thing is. I do want to quickly back up
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:43.590
to something you said earlier and it was
00:30:43.600 --> 00:30:46.230
about transparency. And the reason I
00:30:46.240 --> 00:30:49.669
want to is because I often find that is
00:30:49.679 --> 00:30:51.830
um there are some misconceptions about
00:30:51.840 --> 00:30:53.750
what that means. I think if you ask
00:30:53.760 --> 00:30:55.510
anyone, this is one of Rogue Water Lab's
00:30:55.520 --> 00:30:56.710
four pillars of public trust.
00:30:56.720 --> 00:30:58.789
Transparency is the first one. And when
00:30:58.799 --> 00:31:00.230
you ask anyone, of course they're
00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:02.230
transparent. Of course I know I need to
00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:04.470
be transparent. But I think we think
00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:07.350
that means being transparent when when
00:31:07.360 --> 00:31:09.510
we know things and when things are going
00:31:09.520 --> 00:31:11.510
right. But it means being transparent
00:31:11.520 --> 00:31:13.590
always. And and you said something
00:31:13.600 --> 00:31:15.190
really important. We don't know
00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:17.110
something. Letting them know that. And
00:31:17.120 --> 00:31:18.630
it's such a scary thing because then
00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:21.110
we're perceiving, oh, how how might they
00:31:21.120 --> 00:31:23.669
look at us and what might um they think
00:31:23.679 --> 00:31:26.230
about us. But being honest in those
00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:28.549
moments or when something didn't go
00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:30.870
right, I'm sorry the building was off
00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:32.389
and we're gonna fix it, but I'm just
00:31:32.399 --> 00:31:34.230
letting you know it happened. We want to
00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:36.710
avoid those things and we, you know, we
00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:38.549
believe ourselves to be good because we
00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:40.149
have good intentions. So, we don't think
00:31:40.159 --> 00:31:41.990
it's a big deal, but it's such a big
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:44.070
deal. When you think about your spouse
00:31:44.080 --> 00:31:46.230
or your friend kind of withholding
00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:48.950
information from you, that immediately,
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:51.190
as the kids would say, they say sus,
00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:53.430
that's probably not even a young word
00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:55.909
anymore. I'm getting sold. But um you
00:31:55.919 --> 00:31:57.909
know it's suspicious. People are
00:31:57.919 --> 00:32:00.710
skeptical about it. So um yeah, I don't
00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:01.830
know if you have additional thoughts in
00:32:01.840 --> 00:32:03.509
that, but I wanted to highlight you
00:32:03.519 --> 00:32:04.950
saying that because I think that's so
00:32:04.960 --> 00:32:06.070
important.
00:32:06.080 --> 00:32:07.909
>> Yeah, it's it's not about trying to
00:32:07.919 --> 00:32:10.870
recount every single detail or do a
00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:12.710
confessional, you know, ask me
00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:14.470
everything live, you know, on a
00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:16.230
situation during oppressor. I think I
00:32:16.240 --> 00:32:18.230
I've seen one public official do a
00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:21.190
presser that was like four hours long,
00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:22.789
you know, person just stayed at the
00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:25.669
podium and answered everything until
00:32:25.679 --> 00:32:26.630
>> wow
00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:28.789
>> in the face. But um you know, it's it's
00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:30.070
not about doing that. That's a very
00:32:30.080 --> 00:32:32.789
extreme example, but I do I do think
00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:36.710
it's about acknowledging where there is
00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:37.830
there are things that have to be
00:32:37.840 --> 00:32:39.830
addressed. You know, I think it is
00:32:39.840 --> 00:32:42.230
leaning in and saying, "Hey, you may
00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:44.230
have questions about this. this is what
00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:46.310
we're doing to find out about that. We
00:32:46.320 --> 00:32:47.750
don't have all the details. What we do
00:32:47.760 --> 00:32:49.990
know is this. This is when we'll check
00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:52.710
in again, you know, with what we found.
00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:54.470
And if you have questions, this is who
00:32:54.480 --> 00:32:56.630
you call or this is this is where you
00:32:56.640 --> 00:32:59.269
go, you know, to to get the thing. And I
00:32:59.279 --> 00:33:03.269
think transparency um it's it can be
00:33:03.279 --> 00:33:04.950
difficult where there is uncertainty,
00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:07.029
where there is legal risk, where there
00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:09.830
are um very obvious harms and impacts.
00:33:09.840 --> 00:33:11.909
it's it's hard to kind of lean in and
00:33:11.919 --> 00:33:14.149
and want to talk about certain things. I
00:33:14.159 --> 00:33:15.990
think showing that vulnerability and
00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:22.310
empathy um is when you do win trust.
00:33:22.320 --> 00:33:22.710
>> Yeah.
00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:25.509
>> So, I want to hear um I told myself I
00:33:25.519 --> 00:33:26.549
was going to ask you and now I'm going
00:33:26.559 --> 00:33:29.909
to ask you uh because I'm I'm going to
00:33:29.919 --> 00:33:31.909
ask you about work in Wind Jackson,
00:33:31.919 --> 00:33:34.230
Mississippi, but I want to caveat. I
00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:36.549
know you know that made so much
00:33:36.559 --> 00:33:38.549
headlines. Michigan made so much
00:33:38.559 --> 00:33:40.710
headlines, but there are communities all
00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:43.110
across the United States who are in very
00:33:43.120 --> 00:33:45.269
similar situations and I know we've
00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:47.909
worked in many of those and so I don't
00:33:47.919 --> 00:33:50.389
want to go over the point of like it's
00:33:50.399 --> 00:33:53.830
just Jackson. So, um, but I think a lot
00:33:53.840 --> 00:33:55.430
of people are curious about that, just
00:33:55.440 --> 00:33:58.950
seeing it, um, in the names and I think
00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:01.669
some of the particulars of that, well,
00:34:01.679 --> 00:34:03.350
local elected officials and state
00:34:03.360 --> 00:34:04.710
elected officials and then our
00:34:04.720 --> 00:34:08.310
receiverhip, the trust in the community,
00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:11.030
um, was hard because, you know, people
00:34:11.040 --> 00:34:13.430
who see the authority that the community
00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:15.349
supposed to listen to, that was hard.
00:34:15.359 --> 00:34:18.069
Um, I guess my question is more just
00:34:18.079 --> 00:34:20.790
around working with community groups
00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:22.470
there. I know you've got a lot of
00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:24.790
expertise on uh I had you teach your
00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:27.510
course one time turning uh adversaries
00:34:27.520 --> 00:34:30.069
into allies, but uh do you have any
00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:31.990
swearings about working with the
00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:33.750
community groups like in a situation
00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:37.109
like that or Jackson or somewhere else?
00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:38.470
zoom out a little bit and just
00:34:38.480 --> 00:34:40.710
acknowledge that this is very difficult
00:34:40.720 --> 00:34:44.230
work and um when communities that have
00:34:44.240 --> 00:34:46.149
seen systemic disinvestment and where
00:34:46.159 --> 00:34:47.510
there are relationships that are
00:34:47.520 --> 00:34:48.389
strained
00:34:48.399 --> 00:34:51.510
>> and when um when there are like very
00:34:51.520 --> 00:34:54.149
real problems um with with a water
00:34:54.159 --> 00:34:56.629
system. I just want to acknowledge um
00:34:56.639 --> 00:34:58.630
everyone who was working within those
00:34:58.640 --> 00:35:01.910
situations um in the past or or in the
00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:03.829
future even or even now. I just want to
00:35:03.839 --> 00:35:05.750
acknowledge that that is very heavy work
00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:08.550
and it's and it's not easy and shout out
00:35:08.560 --> 00:35:10.710
to to those who are shephering those
00:35:10.720 --> 00:35:13.510
kind of situations. Now, um I think we
00:35:13.520 --> 00:35:15.910
have to lean in and and help each other
00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:17.510
in those situations. It's easy to kind
00:35:17.520 --> 00:35:21.510
of um you know, sit back and and have
00:35:21.520 --> 00:35:23.829
that passenger seat commentary when
00:35:23.839 --> 00:35:26.150
you're not the one driving. Um but in
00:35:26.160 --> 00:35:27.430
those situations, I think that's when
00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:29.589
the water industry has to come together.
00:35:29.599 --> 00:35:31.270
And that's that's been one of the more
00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:33.829
memorable you know aspects of people who
00:35:33.839 --> 00:35:35.990
did in and say how can I help
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:38.230
>> that has been one of the most um I think
00:35:38.240 --> 00:35:41.349
rewarding parts of that is seeing people
00:35:41.359 --> 00:35:43.589
>> uh really you know expand their table
00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:45.670
and say hey this is what I can do is
00:35:45.680 --> 00:35:47.510
this helpful I think that's we need more
00:35:47.520 --> 00:35:49.910
of that I think in our in our industry
00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:53.030
um when we're working with um community
00:35:53.040 --> 00:35:56.470
groups and we're dealing with very real
00:35:56.480 --> 00:35:57.910
water challenges I think one of the
00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:00.950
things we got to remember is uh these
00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:03.670
these groups want um you know they want
00:36:03.680 --> 00:36:07.190
purpose. They're invested. They've built
00:36:07.200 --> 00:36:10.630
um built a life and a profession around
00:36:10.640 --> 00:36:13.109
what what they're doing. And I think u
00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:16.150
it's so easy when we're dealing with um
00:36:16.160 --> 00:36:19.030
groups that don't necessarily agree with
00:36:19.040 --> 00:36:21.270
um you know where the utility is coming
00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:22.950
from and that perspective and there's
00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:24.550
that tension there's that adversarial
00:36:24.560 --> 00:36:26.710
thing. I think that's an opportunity to
00:36:26.720 --> 00:36:28.710
lean in, to listen, to have an, you
00:36:28.720 --> 00:36:30.630
know, a meaningful exchange. It's not
00:36:30.640 --> 00:36:33.750
about trying to necessarily um build
00:36:33.760 --> 00:36:35.349
consensus, but you can get on the same
00:36:35.359 --> 00:36:37.750
page. You can, you know, find find a
00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:40.310
role for each other to coexist. Um
00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:41.670
especially when there is a shared
00:36:41.680 --> 00:36:43.510
purpose and where there is shared
00:36:43.520 --> 00:36:45.990
purpose and vision. um that's an
00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:47.750
opportunity to do some really innovative
00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:50.950
things that um you know get out of the
00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:53.270
table when you're not trying to
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:55.349
necessarily uh take credit for
00:36:55.359 --> 00:36:58.069
everything or or you know for some
00:36:58.079 --> 00:37:00.150
entities get paid for everything. I
00:37:00.160 --> 00:37:01.910
think there's um I think there's a lot
00:37:01.920 --> 00:37:03.829
of really great opportunities if we we
00:37:03.839 --> 00:37:05.829
start reimagining what those
00:37:05.839 --> 00:37:07.430
partnerships can look like at the local
00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:09.910
level. Um but we have to find common
00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:11.510
ground. We have to sort of start looking
00:37:11.520 --> 00:37:13.750
at where is the shared purpose and and
00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:16.150
and vision and and we have to
00:37:16.160 --> 00:37:18.150
acknowledge kind of where where those
00:37:18.160 --> 00:37:20.310
strains are and why they exist, you
00:37:20.320 --> 00:37:22.870
know, and we have to take that next step
00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:23.910
and say
00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:25.829
>> this is how we want to start again. This
00:37:25.839 --> 00:37:27.750
is how we want to move forward together.
00:37:27.760 --> 00:37:29.349
And that's what it takes I think in some
00:37:29.359 --> 00:37:32.069
of those communities where um there have
00:37:32.079 --> 00:37:35.990
been you know a history of problems and
00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:37.990
you know there there there's lots of
00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:41.750
doubt and skepticism um and and where we
00:37:41.760 --> 00:37:43.829
benefit is when we have a sense of hope
00:37:43.839 --> 00:37:46.069
and optimism that is rooted in this
00:37:46.079 --> 00:37:48.950
commitment to moving forward and and
00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:50.950
making something better
00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:53.829
>> for everyone. So this is not easy work
00:37:53.839 --> 00:37:55.670
at all. It takes it takes leadership. I
00:37:55.680 --> 00:37:56.710
think it takes vision.
00:37:56.720 --> 00:37:59.109
>> Yeah. decent investment takes doing
00:37:59.119 --> 00:38:00.710
doing the right thing even when it's
00:38:00.720 --> 00:38:02.390
hard and sometimes when you don't get it
00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:04.390
right going back to the table say you
00:38:04.400 --> 00:38:06.950
know what we tried it didn't work out
00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:09.190
what else can we do you know and and I
00:38:09.200 --> 00:38:11.349
think that's um for for some of these
00:38:11.359 --> 00:38:14.150
more you know I would say uh challenging
00:38:14.160 --> 00:38:15.510
things as an industry we're going to
00:38:15.520 --> 00:38:17.670
face right look at what's happening with
00:38:17.680 --> 00:38:19.990
POS and bioolid
00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:23.349
um landfills um yeah we're you know
00:38:23.359 --> 00:38:25.990
we're we're confronting um you know
00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:28.710
these conversations with manufacturers
00:38:28.720 --> 00:38:30.710
and retailers and people who are
00:38:30.720 --> 00:38:33.190
creating stuff, right? And we're having
00:38:33.200 --> 00:38:35.670
to have bigger conversations about um
00:38:35.680 --> 00:38:38.790
the source versus the disposal and what
00:38:38.800 --> 00:38:41.030
what happens now. And I think it takes
00:38:41.040 --> 00:38:43.589
stewardship. It takes us um you know,
00:38:43.599 --> 00:38:45.030
everyone being at the table, those
00:38:45.040 --> 00:38:47.349
stakeholders and having policy makers
00:38:47.359 --> 00:38:49.670
and governance and really being able to
00:38:49.680 --> 00:38:52.630
to lean in and say um what can we do
00:38:52.640 --> 00:38:55.430
right now? What needs to be studied? how
00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:57.990
can we how can we move this along? And
00:38:58.000 --> 00:38:59.670
that's and I think that's the that's the
00:38:59.680 --> 00:39:01.349
difficult work, but it's the necessary
00:39:01.359 --> 00:39:02.150
work,
00:39:02.160 --> 00:39:05.190
>> I think, to to rebuild public trust, you
00:39:05.200 --> 00:39:08.950
know, and to really u show progress. I
00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:10.950
think some of these um issues that we're
00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:12.630
facing as an industry. We've been facing
00:39:12.640 --> 00:39:14.390
some of these things for a very long
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:17.030
time. And so you maybe it hasn't gotten
00:39:17.040 --> 00:39:19.109
better. And so it's easy to get
00:39:19.119 --> 00:39:21.270
discouraged, but for me, I'm I'm more
00:39:21.280 --> 00:39:24.950
hopeful that um we have such talented
00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:27.030
people. When I go to the water quality
00:39:27.040 --> 00:39:28.390
technology conference or some of these
00:39:28.400 --> 00:39:29.990
more niche water conferences, I'm like,
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:32.150
"Wow, that is the person that's going to
00:39:32.160 --> 00:39:34.390
solve the PEOS problem." Yeah. I'm
00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:36.630
inspired by the young people that I
00:39:36.640 --> 00:39:39.190
today. And so that's why it's important
00:39:39.200 --> 00:39:41.030
we have to become more inclusive. We
00:39:41.040 --> 00:39:43.190
have to invite people into our industry
00:39:43.200 --> 00:39:45.829
who are from nontraditional backgrounds.
00:39:45.839 --> 00:39:48.710
we have to start um you know succession
00:39:48.720 --> 00:39:50.870
planning differently. We have to start
00:39:50.880 --> 00:39:53.750
re rethinking kind of the structure of
00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:55.829
the water industry and that's
00:39:55.839 --> 00:39:57.829
>> that that's not easy. makes everyone
00:39:57.839 --> 00:39:59.829
very uncomfortable. But may but maybe it
00:39:59.839 --> 00:40:00.950
should, right?
00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:03.510
>> It's not easy. And it takes it takes out
00:40:03.520 --> 00:40:05.910
of the box thinking and I'll bring this
00:40:05.920 --> 00:40:08.790
all the way back to to Catalyst and just
00:40:08.800 --> 00:40:10.950
like, you know, the beauty of of an
00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:14.710
experience like Catalyst where it's it's
00:40:14.720 --> 00:40:17.430
not all water professionals talking to
00:40:17.440 --> 00:40:19.109
water professionals. there's a lot of
00:40:19.119 --> 00:40:22.150
intentionality around bringing folks
00:40:22.160 --> 00:40:25.829
from outside of the industry to um to
00:40:25.839 --> 00:40:27.829
talk to us water professionals so we can
00:40:27.839 --> 00:40:30.230
learn from them and um you know whether
00:40:30.240 --> 00:40:33.589
that's um yeah last year there's like
00:40:33.599 --> 00:40:37.190
mayors are involved um folks in um art
00:40:37.200 --> 00:40:39.589
creativity um
00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:43.510
>> science uh scientist yeah
00:40:43.520 --> 00:40:46.150
>> yeah so all those things because through
00:40:46.160 --> 00:40:47.510
the thread of everything that you were
00:40:47.520 --> 00:40:51.430
just talking about um Amamira was the
00:40:51.440 --> 00:40:53.270
you know there's the commitment to the
00:40:53.280 --> 00:40:55.030
thing and then there's the consistency
00:40:55.040 --> 00:40:57.910
and the the drum the cons the commitment
00:40:57.920 --> 00:41:02.230
to the consistency of of continually um
00:41:02.240 --> 00:41:04.309
bringing other people in whether that's
00:41:04.319 --> 00:41:06.309
through a message and stakeholders or
00:41:06.319 --> 00:41:09.030
making them part of the solution. um all
00:41:09.040 --> 00:41:09.990
of that. Um
00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:12.470
>> yeah, we got to keep shooting up. Um and
00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:15.190
you know, that's that's something as we
00:41:15.200 --> 00:41:17.589
build, you know, trust beyond just the
00:41:17.599 --> 00:41:19.829
regulatory the compliance stuff. It's
00:41:19.839 --> 00:41:23.109
it's how how can we show up in a way
00:41:23.119 --> 00:41:25.670
that is authentic, that is real. How can
00:41:25.680 --> 00:41:28.630
we invite people in instead of um just
00:41:28.640 --> 00:41:31.750
pushing messages, you know, at them? Um
00:41:31.760 --> 00:41:34.390
how can we involve more? How and how can
00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:37.589
we um make this, you know, sustainable?
00:41:37.599 --> 00:41:39.510
I think all those things are really big
00:41:39.520 --> 00:41:41.510
questions, you know, that we keep asking
00:41:41.520 --> 00:41:43.510
in our industry, but it's it's it's
00:41:43.520 --> 00:41:45.670
necessary to move the work forward.
00:41:45.680 --> 00:41:46.630
>> Yeah,
00:41:46.640 --> 00:41:49.349
>> this was so good. And I could keep going
00:41:49.359 --> 00:41:51.589
about this, especially your last answer
00:41:51.599 --> 00:41:52.870
before that, I was like, "Oh my
00:41:52.880 --> 00:41:54.710
goodness, there's so much to touch on
00:41:54.720 --> 00:41:57.910
there." Um, but other than coming to Cad
00:41:57.920 --> 00:41:59.349
where you will be and people like you
00:41:59.359 --> 00:42:01.430
will be. If people are interested in
00:42:01.440 --> 00:42:02.870
connecting with you or learning more
00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:05.829
about STD, how would they reach you?
00:42:05.839 --> 00:42:07.990
>> Yeah. Um there's a lot of really really
00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:11.030
great resources um on our website
00:42:11.040 --> 00:42:13.430
stvinc.com.
00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:15.270
Um or you can just connect with me on
00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:17.030
LinkedIn. It's where I talk about things
00:42:17.040 --> 00:42:19.510
that um are sort of in this the science
00:42:19.520 --> 00:42:22.309
of communication, marketing, you know,
00:42:22.319 --> 00:42:24.710
um branding, how do you measure public
00:42:24.720 --> 00:42:27.589
trust, um how can you do innovative
00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:29.829
public engagement, you know, when
00:42:29.839 --> 00:42:32.230
budgets are constrained and you have an
00:42:32.240 --> 00:42:33.910
engineer staring at you saying scope,
00:42:33.920 --> 00:42:36.309
schedule, budget. um that's where I find
00:42:36.319 --> 00:42:38.150
my inspiration and like to talk about
00:42:38.160 --> 00:42:39.190
you know what's happening in our
00:42:39.200 --> 00:42:41.750
industry. Um so yes find me on LinkedIn
00:42:41.760 --> 00:42:44.390
or you can um connect with STV on our
00:42:44.400 --> 00:42:46.069
website.
00:42:46.079 --> 00:42:48.790
Awesome. Well, thank you so much Amamira
00:42:48.800 --> 00:42:51.510
for joining us. Um it was a pleasure to
00:42:51.520 --> 00:42:53.670
get the opportunity to experience you as
00:42:53.680 --> 00:42:56.550
a guide um at Catalyst last year and I'm
00:42:56.560 --> 00:42:58.230
looking forward to um connecting with
00:42:58.240 --> 00:43:01.349
you again at Catalyst this year. And for
00:43:01.359 --> 00:43:03.190
anyone listening to this, if it's before
00:43:03.200 --> 00:43:04.950
September,
00:43:04.960 --> 00:43:06.870
time is running out. I mean, today is
00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:09.109
the last day actually, but um
00:43:09.119 --> 00:43:10.950
>> a delicious menu that'll
00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:12.790
>> be a catalyst,
00:43:12.800 --> 00:43:14.309
>> but it's not too late. There will
00:43:14.319 --> 00:43:16.309
probably be another catalyst next year.
00:43:16.319 --> 00:43:19.750
Um and so um join the catalyst um
00:43:19.760 --> 00:43:22.950
experience as well. Find um find Chelsea
00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:26.309
Rogue Water Lab Catalyst um all online
00:43:26.319 --> 00:43:28.550
will be in the show notes. And um thank
00:43:28.560 --> 00:43:31.270
you so much for for joining us and we'll
00:43:31.280 --> 00:43:32.710
see you next time.
00:43:32.720 --> 00:43:33.910
>> Thanks Amara.
00:43:33.920 --> 00:43:35.430
>> Thank you
00:43:35.440 --> 00:43:37.920
>> everyone.