Mastering Adaptability: Embracing Change for Growth and Success

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This program is designed to provide general information with regards
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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal, counseling,
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professional service, or any advice. You should seek the services
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of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
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At the end of the day, it's not about what
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you have or even what you've accomplished. It's about what
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you've done with those accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted up,
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who you've made better. It's about what you've given back
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Thanzel Washington, Welcome to inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is
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to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you
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to do the same.
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Rich welcome to the show.
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Well, great to be here. Thanks for having me.
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Hey, I'm excited to have you here. So where are
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you from?
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Uh? From Tebridge, England's okay?
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And so that's where you're located now?
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That is right now, yep, just between Cambridge and London. Oh,
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I love it.
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I love it.
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The other day I interviewed someone from Peru, so it's
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just like it's becoming worldwide.
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I love it. Yeah, that's slightly more exhaustic.
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Yeah, So what I'd love for you to do is
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to kind of share with the audience your background, who
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you are, some of the things that you've accomplished, because
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you have quite an amazing background, and then kind of
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the journey that led you to this point in writing
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your book, your ebook, and also just doing what you're doing.
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Oh cricky, Okay, sure. Well. Look, when I left university,
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I wanted leadership experience as soon as I could. So
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the fastest way to get that was to get my
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hands dirty in the supply chain, and I ended up
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starting off working the night shift on the strips or
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packing line in a factory, and I work my way
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out and ended up running a billion dollar global supply chain,
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sitting on the board of a listed company. And look,
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on my journey, what I realized was that I seem
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to enjoy change, and that seemed to be quite rare,
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not certainly not unique, But most people, I found, resist
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most change most of the time. And that doesn't really
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matter where you are, what your background is, what your
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job title says, how many stripes you've got on your arm.
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In fact, sometimes senior leaders can be the most most
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resistant to change. So yeah, I kind of decided to
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to kind of make that, make that my life. So
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I had, I had climbed a corporate ladder. I ran
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that supply chain, I was CEO of a few companies.
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I lived in Sweden. I spent nine years in New
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Zealand before coming back here. So yeah, I've been around
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a bit and I've worked in most corporate functions. I've
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been very lucky to do that. I've done manufacturing, purchasing, logistics, sales, marketing,
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so I've you know, I've worked from Aberdeen to Auckland,
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so I've subjected myself to a fair better change. And
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what I realized was, ultimately, although I enjoyed being a CEO,
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getting up every morning to make rich people slightly richer,
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wasn't really doing it for me. And when I realized
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that actually my vocation was, you know, to help as
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many people as I could enjoy, rather than endure the
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life of change that surely lies ahead for us all,
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then it became a easy decision actually just to jump
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off the wheel and take that big leap that I'd
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always been too scared to do of setting up on
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my own, which I did ten years ago, and dedicating
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my career to developing mys and techniques and training and
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teaching that helps people become more open to the idea
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of change, which is adaptability is all about my subject.
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Yeah, And you know what I find interesting is that
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you know, I'm never to the level you are, believe me.
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But you know, for a while I was working with
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very small businesses as a business consultant and mentor, and
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what I found was that everything that they were experiencing
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in business relative to certain areas they were experiencing in life.
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And when we changed an element in their business, it
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changed an element in their life. And so today, as
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I mentioned earlier before it came on the show, I
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really want to focus on all of those concepts that
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you've developed that I know are just helping the leaders
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of these big companies and so forth. But I guarantee
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you these concepts would help anyone who is listening today
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as far as how can they become more adaptable to change?
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Because as you said, and you made the comment, you
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know you were so fearful and making that change, and
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yet you did it.
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You did it, okay, and so let's talk.
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About that as far as change and why is it
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so difficult for people to make changes? And we'll talk
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about you know, your focus on that adaptability, But what
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is so difficult for us to make change in our lives.
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Well, the good news is that it's not our fault. Well,
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it kind of is. It's an evolutionary reaction that we have.
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We've developed over the last fifty thousand years to as
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a self protecting mechanism to perceive any change as a
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potential threat to our security. Whatever situation we're in right
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now might not be ideal. We might only just be
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able to cover the mortgage, we might have all the
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we might we're having a few arguments with friends or
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family or you know, But whatever is going on in
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our lives, we are actually safe and secure. And if
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we're not, then we're very prepared to change to get
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to that base level of the bottom levels of Maslow's hierarchy.
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But for most of us lucky enough to have a
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roof over our heads and enjoy the basics, what we
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really want to do is just blacken down the hatches,
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because any change could threaten to take that away from us.
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So we actually have mechanisms that the fear mechanism neurologically
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is designed to stop us from thinking. So when we
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are faced with fear, when we are faced with a
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clear and present danger, that is the cause of fear,
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that saber tooth tiger jumping out in front of us.
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And what our brain does at that moment is it
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actually shuts itself down from thinking. Imagine that the world's
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largest supercomputer. Imagine what size the off switch must be.
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But that's exactly what we do, and we stop thinking,
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and we go into this kneejer fight or flight or
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freeze response that everybody knows, we're all biochemists, and we
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actually just kneeda respond. And you know, that was a
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self protecting mechanism that made us move rather than think,
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which could have been the difference between being life and
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lunch back in the day. But actually, if you look
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in your HR manual at work, sorry to go back
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to work, but you know both of those things, fighting
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or fleeing from work are both entreplineary offenses. These days,
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they're not terribly helpful. So we've got to find ways
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to override that. And just coming back to your very
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first point in your question, there what I love about
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talking to people and helping people become more adaptable. Is
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You're absolutely right. Even if I'm doing this in a
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corporate environment, I say to them, I say to my leaders,
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this is a skill that doesn't stop at five point
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thirty in the afternoon. You know, this is the way
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that most organizations deal with change is that they treat
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it like a business process. You know, we're going to
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put in a new IT system and it's going to
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have a beginning, a middle, and an end. It's a project.
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But actually change adaptability isn't isn't a business process. It's
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an attitude to life. And when you start exploring what
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gets me very excited is when you start exploring our
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relationship with change, when you can start to see even
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negative change as the opportunity to make a positive difference,
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then you start seeing change for what it really is,
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which is that it's the chance to make a difference
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in life. And then you get into a whole existential
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debate about why are we here and if the answer
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to that is anything other than we just want to
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sit on our hands until the pension of the four
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one K kicks in, then if you're actually here to
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make any kind of difference, then grabbing hold of change,
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embracing change, even the worst kind of change, you know,
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the loss of a loved one, losing your job, whatever
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it is. You know, it's not just about resilience. This
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resilience is designed as having the ability to bounce back.
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Adaptability is all about having the ability to bounce higher
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and to take whatever that negative was and actually emerge
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from that bigger, faster, better, stronger than you were before.
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And I believe that anybody can do that in any
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situation if they so have the will, and there are
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the means to learn that.
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Yeah, and you know it's interesting. I remember that when
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I was working with Dennis in particular. One of the
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first things I'd say to them when I started working
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with them as a client, as I said, you know it,
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you've got five employees. I can guarantee you one of
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them is going to be gone within six weeks. And
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the reason I knew that is because within that percentage,
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there was always one person that really didn't want to
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be there, and to some degree they were actually shooting
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everybody else in the back without anyone knowing it. And
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it always happened, It always happened. But when you think
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about business, when we think about people in their lives,
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how often do we find ourselves stuck in a situation
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and we keep living our life, keep experiencing whatever we're
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experiencing our business, keep experience that same thing, and the
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fear of change, of the unknown is so strong that
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oftentimes it prevents us from doing anything about it. My
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daughter was getting her master's degree in sociology and was
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ready to move on to a PhD. And she called me,
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she says, Dad, I'm just not feeling right about something.
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And it took her probably six months to realize that
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that she didn't want to go on and get that PhD.
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She wanted to get out into the business world and
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did wanted more of a balanced life than what.
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She saw was going to happen. And what I found
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was the fear of the unknown for her was so.
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Great that it really took her a long time to
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make that decision. So, as you work with businesses, or
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if you're working with people in general, how do you
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help them to understand number one, that change can be
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valuable in their lives. It can literally change their experiences
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of life or of business. And number two, how to
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overcome that fear of change and become adaptable to where
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they can make the change and make it a positive
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experience for themselves.
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Sure, so what I do is I start off talking
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to people about their fears and anxieties. Now, it's important
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to differentiate between the two. We use those two terms
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interchangeably in common parlance, but actually they are different things.
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And that's not just a you know, from the flature
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point of intellectual impress If we understand that they are different,
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then we can actually treat them differently too. So fear
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is your reaction to a clear and present danger, it's
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that saber tooth tiger that appears. Anxiety is what you
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feel when that saber tooth tiger disappears back off into
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the long grass and you don't know where he is anymore,
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and all of a sudden, you're wondering if you're the
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fastest runner in the village, or more or more appropriately,
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the slowest. Anxiety is your reaction to your future perceived
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negative state. So immediately there are differences right between fear
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and anxiety. Fear is your reaction to something that's real
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and something that's actually happening. Right now, You've just been
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told that you're going to be let go. Anxiety is
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making up y stuff in your mind about what could
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possibly go wrong in the future. And here's how here's again,
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it's another self protecting mechanism. Anxiety is a car crash
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of two absolutely brilliant things that we have going for
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us as humans. The first is, and it's one of
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the reasons we run the planet for better or worse,
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is that we have this ability to imagine a future
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that doesn't yet exist. We have imagination. And the other
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is this self protecting mechanism where we have negativity bias,
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as the psychologists call it, which is we tend to
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think about what could possibly go wrong. Again, that's really
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good if you're out on the savannah hanging around with
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saber toothed tigers on their own. Each of those is
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really useful. But as you can see, put those two
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things together, a highly active imagination with the ability to
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see the negative or the focus on the negative, and
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all of a sudden, what we do is we take
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a potential negative scenario, then we multiply that by another
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potential negative scenario. Then eventually we multiply that by our
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phone number. And what we've created for ourselves is a
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cliff and we end up perceiving ourselves at rock bottom
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at the bottom of that. And a study and State
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University said that ninety percent of what we worry about
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never actually happens. Now, that's not to dismiss the anxiety
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that is one hundred percent real that results from that,
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but we consume a huge amount of energy worrying about
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stuff that doesn't matter. So one of the one of
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the antidotes to anxiety is what psychologists call rational emotional
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behavior therapy or what I call rational thoughtfulness, which is
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you have to sit as judge and jury on yourself
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and actually question is this thought that I'm having, is
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it really real? Is it likely to happen? Or am
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I just playing it so safe that it's affecting my
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ability to actually do anything about controlling my future? Right. So,
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once we've once we've understood that that in itself, gales
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fall from people's eyes. Clients I've had, when they understand
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and they've got a label and they can better understand
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why they're feeling what they're feeling and why they're feeling it,
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that is half the journey. And look, I've got a
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whole bunch of antidotes to combat the reasons that we
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resist change that generate fear and anxiety. But once once
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you've done that, what you're effectively doing is helping people
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to get out of their own way. Fear can be controlled.
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You can't stop feeling fear, but you can control it.
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You can absolutely manage your anxiety. The American Psychological Association
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says that anxiety is imminently treatable. The problem is identifying it,
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of course, because we're all really world class keeping our
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anxieties hidden, aren't we. And once you've got out of
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your way, then you can start seeing change for what
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it is, which are a couple of things, the ability
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to make a difference, to be relevant, to add value,
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and the other one. Ultimately, it gives us the freedom
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to grow as individuals, to take that negativity or whatever
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it was. We can go from negative to neutral, we
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can go from good to great. Change gives us the
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opportunity to learn about ourselves in ways that the status
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quo can only dream of. And that's what I'm really
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try and instill in people is that even when bad
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things happen to you, look good things might happen to you.
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Bad things are definitely going to happen to you. If
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you've already got friends and loved ones, at some point
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you're going to lose friends or you're going to physically
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lose loved ones. These things happen, but it's how It's
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not what happens to your life, of course, it's how
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you deal with it and your attitude towards those of
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If you can see change in those terms, then that
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kind of changes everything. Well.
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And you know, one of the things that I have found,
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and I love the philosophy on this, is that as
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we're living our lives, we set certain goals, we may
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reach them and all of a sudden, it's like, what
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do we do next? I just achieved what I wanted
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to do achieve and again then you get into this
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whole concept of change, and I use the word adventure,
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and for me, it's like, you know what, when you
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can get to the point that you're going to be
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willing to have an adventure in your life, it makes
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an entire difference in your experience of life. It creates curiosity,
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it creates excitement, and as you say so often, it
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gives us the ability to make a difference in other
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people's lives.
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That's absolutely spot on, Because let's go to definitions, because
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you've used the word curiosity there. If you look up
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adaptability in the dictionary, it says something like the ability
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to adjust to new conditions, which is entirely correct, a
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little bit dry, and almost entirely useless at explaining to
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us what it is and what it feels like to
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be more adaptable. So I've redefined it along three lines.
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It is about having the curiosity you'll bang on to
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see the need or opportunity for change. It is about
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having the courage to actually make that change happen, and
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that speaks to your word adventure. And it's about having
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the velocity to make the right turn in the right
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direction at the right time, because, as we all know,
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if you do the right thing at the wrong time,
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it can still yield the wrong result unfortunately. So if
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you've got all of those three things, and if you
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can see any change that you face in those terms,
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then you're absolutely right. I wouldn't agree with you more.
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Life is an adventure, and adventures don't always go according
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to plan.
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Yeah, And as you say that, when you know we
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do the right thing at the right time, sometimes we'll
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do the wrong thing at the right time, or we'll
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do the right thing at the wrong time, and you know,
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when that occurs, then you get into this concept of
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gratitude and the fact that you know, what, I just
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made a mistake, and rather than beating myself up about it,
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what did I learn? Because we're not perfect in our decisions.
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We're not one hundred percent perfect ever, so to be
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able to move forward and to keep on that adventure
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and recognize, Okay, I'm going to make some mistakes, but
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I'm going to learn from them and readapt and that's
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where you get into the adaptability again. All of a sudden,
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you find yourself on that path of moving this way
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and that way, and this way and that way, but
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ultimately you're going on a straight line.
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If you were to do that, you don't want. This
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is a point again, I completely agree. It's a point
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of frustration for me back to my corporate environment that
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there's there's a lot of talk by people like me
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and you on on shows like saying, look, it's okay
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to fail. And I absolutely believe that, you know, fail
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stands for first attempt in learning and Nelson Mandela, I
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either win or I learn, you know, either way, I
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win and all of these things are true. The trouble
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is that in the real world I see an awful
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lot of leaders and even if people are only putting
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the context of this discussion in their personal lives, you know,
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we most of us go to work that there is
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still there is still a resistance to change our attitude
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that we were brought up. I maybe my generation, we
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were brought up with the idea that all failure is bad,
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all failure is negative, and I think for a lot
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of people in the real world, it's still very difficult
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for them to accept that failure is part of success,
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the journey towards success and let alone. You know, they
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had to grit their teeth to pat somebody on the back.
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I can say, you know, you failed, but you tried hard,
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and you're made of the right stuff, and we really
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want our people to model this behavior and ultimately we
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will succeed if we keep failing forwards. You know, there's
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a lot of people that read articles about that stuff,
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listen to things like this and just can't bring themselves
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to actually do it in the real world. But myself
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and people like you hopefully can get that message out there.
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That's you know, if you fail, if you fail in
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a small way, If you fail in a small way
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that is reversible, where you can you go down the
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wrong path and you can come back up and go
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back down a different route. That's the kind of spirit
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of adventure that you need to embrace change and for
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that to end up being successful.
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Well, And it's really a mindset change.
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It's really you know, we talk about emotional intelligence, we
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talk about general intelligence. I know you talk about adaptability intelligence,
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but the reality is it's a mindset that we have
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to change. So as you're working with corporate leaders and
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you see that they're so resistant to change, and you
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know that it really is a focus of that mindset
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that they have, and regardless of what's underneath that's causing that,
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how do you help them to change their mindset and
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begin to understand truly that change is okay and it's
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an adventure.
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It's this, it's this kind of two two step approach.
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I suppose there's it's not written. It's not really carrot
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and stick, but it is. It is about helping people
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get out of their own way. That in itself is
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big news for a lot of people who feel that
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that kind of fear and anxiety when when you when
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you even say the words change, it unges up. All
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sorts of your brain comes alive. You're an MRI scan
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of people who hear the word change. You know it
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will be a complete light show going on in there.
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What people have really struggled to understand inherently is that
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even negative change can be an opportunity for you to
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learn and grow and make a difference. That's the big difference.
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And I suppose when I say to people, when you
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remember the last time that you became more adaptable, I've
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only ever had one person say I can remember exactly
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when I became more adaptable, and it was the day
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after my best friend died and I realized that life
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was for living and I better start doing things pretty
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differently right now. You know, it's pretty profound. For most people.
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They either don't believe it's possible or they've never really
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thought about it, which is strange when you do think
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about it, given the world of increasing uncertainty and complexity
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that we live in. Our relationship with change is really
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about our relationship with life. And when you start painting
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a bigger picture like that, for people, it helps them
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to become more comfortable with the idea. Ultimately, what we're
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trying to do here is get people to come outside
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of their comfort zone, and that, by definition, is an
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uncomfortable thing to do. Yes, So what you've got, what
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you've got to do is convince people that they can
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get out of their own way, that there is a
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pot of honey at the end of the rainbow. There
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are reasons to embrace it. Oh and by the way,
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if you don't, if you wait until the platform is burning,
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then you are you are going to get burned. And
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it's better to jump on your own terms than be
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pushed when you absolutely have no option but to embrace change,
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so that the motto of that you hear is change
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will be changed is absolutely true.
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Well, and you know, as you talk about then a
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smile and big when you said, you know, convince people
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that they have to make a change or that they
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can make a change, Well, in my mind, we can
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never convince anyone of anything. They need to convince themselves.
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So here's my question is you're working with individuals, whether
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they're be in business or otherwise, how do you help
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them to understand that number one change needs to occur
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and number two, they can internally make that change.
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So what you have to do well. The way I
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do it, anyway, is to tap into people's popes and dreams.
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I suppose it is maybe a bit a bit of
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a flowery way of saying it, but what is it
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that people want to achieve? Now? If the kind of
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people that I deal with are normally reasonably ambitious people,
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they haven't They haven't called me just to tell me
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that their life is fine and that they don't want
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to change anything. So the people that I normally deal
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with do want some form of change. What I also
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find out is that the issue is never the issue,
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and the reason that people contact is never the real
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reason when we when we get down to it. But
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if you talk to people about what is it that
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blank canvas? What is it that you actually want to achieve?
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And then and then they will paint some picture for
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you that involves either a small or large degree of change.
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And then we then we go back to, well, okay,
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what's the reality right now? And then what are the
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hurdles that are stopping you? And then we just gently
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break down those hurdles we understand what they are. Lots
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and lots of questioning why do you think this is
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a hurdle. Why do you think it's something that you
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that either exists, because it might may not. And if
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it does exist, why do you think that you can't
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overcome it? And then we'll look at examples in their
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their life and we'll talk about the best things that
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have happened to them, the worst things that have happened
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to them, and how they've coped. And what you'll always
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find is that people people tend to underestimate themselves. And
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if you actually go digging, you don't have to do
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too much digging in the past. You know, I'm not
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a psychoanalyst or anything. I'm just an x CEO who
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got excited about helping people deal with change. But what
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you'll find is people have actually been through probably more
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than they realize, and come out the other side, maybe
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even stronger. So the path that they want to go
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on is actually a path they've already started along. And
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all I'm going to do is boost them and catalyze
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that journey with you know, a few antidotes who combat
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the reasons they resist change, and a few stimulants to
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boost the reasons they love it. And then you know, you.
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You you help them find what that roadmap is and
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then gently help them along that and there you go,
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it's not you know, it's not a difficult model.
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Well, and you know, I was We were having a
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discussion like this in a previous podcast, and they brought
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up the concept of a ladder, and I brought up
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a kind of scept Okay, here's the goals that we're
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trying to achieve. And this sent me as you were
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talking that here is one possible way for people to
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really develop this courage and the bravery to make that change,
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because all right, here's my goal. It's at the top
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of the ladder. So if we go to the previous rung,
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what happens to what has to happen there in order
482
00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:22.599
to achieve that goal? And all of a sudden you
483
00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:26.480
go to wrong previous rung, previous rung, previous rung, and
484
00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:28.200
all of a sudden you get down to the here
485
00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:31.240
and now, and they're going, Wow, I have got to
486
00:28:31.279 --> 00:28:35.000
make this change if I really wanted to accomplish that goal.
487
00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:38.559
And I think it's so wonderful when people can become
488
00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:41.799
a little bit of analytical and work backwards from that
489
00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:45.319
goal rather than jumping forward and realizing, you know, it's
490
00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:48.799
step by step I can climb that ladder, but I've
491
00:28:48.839 --> 00:28:51.400
got to be willing at this rung to do what
492
00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:53.119
I have to do in order to get to the
493
00:28:53.119 --> 00:28:53.839
next rung. Up.
494
00:28:53.960 --> 00:28:58.039
Yeah, absolutely, the Stephen Covey start with the end in mind.
495
00:28:59.519 --> 00:29:04.599
Absolutely right. So yeah, I couldn't. Again, I couldn't. I
496
00:29:04.680 --> 00:29:08.079
couldn't agree more that the model that I've developed for
497
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:12.400
adaptability intelligence is also a ladder. It's only got four rungs.
498
00:29:13.160 --> 00:29:17.680
But the basic philosophy says that if you can learn
499
00:29:17.720 --> 00:29:21.880
to control your fear, and you can, then you are
500
00:29:21.960 --> 00:29:27.200
much less likely to feel the benctious or feel anxiety
501
00:29:27.279 --> 00:29:30.240
about whatever it is that you think and imagine might
502
00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:34.279
be waiting for you over the horizon or around the corner.
503
00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:36.720
And once you've managed to control your fear and manage
504
00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:39.960
your anxiety, then you can start seeing change as an
505
00:29:39.960 --> 00:29:44.319
opportunity for relevance, to make a difference and to add
506
00:29:44.440 --> 00:29:49.039
value to society, if we're not getting too overblown here.
507
00:29:49.359 --> 00:29:54.359
And then ultimately it is about then using change as
508
00:29:54.359 --> 00:29:57.319
a vehicle to explore the boundaries of what you yourself
509
00:29:57.559 --> 00:30:00.960
are capable of doing. And if that is in any
510
00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:05.480
way translated into what your personal goal is. Then absolutely
511
00:30:05.519 --> 00:30:07.880
you work backwards and say, well, if you want to
512
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:11.799
see changes, even negative change is something positive. We need
513
00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:14.319
to figure out how you're going to work on your
514
00:30:14.319 --> 00:30:17.119
fear and anxiety. Otherwise you're never going to get past
515
00:30:17.160 --> 00:30:20.400
those stages and you're going to be perpetually in a
516
00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:25.799
vicious cycle, digging yourself a big deep hole that becomes
517
00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:29.160
too big, too deep for you to pull yourself out
518
00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:33.759
of it. Which is why lots of anxiety therapies, like
519
00:30:33.880 --> 00:30:37.599
talking therapies, being open and transparent and vulnerable. They all
520
00:30:37.640 --> 00:30:40.599
rely on the energy of others, which is which is
521
00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:43.319
one of the key things that I that I help
522
00:30:43.359 --> 00:30:47.000
my clients with that. You know, porking is talking.
523
00:30:46.720 --> 00:30:49.599
Is good well, and it always does it. It always boils
524
00:30:49.640 --> 00:30:52.440
down to that fear and anxiety. And I really I
525
00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:55.799
love how you've kind of separated the two because one is,
526
00:30:55.920 --> 00:31:00.680
as you say, real to some degree, but the anxiety
527
00:31:01.119 --> 00:31:03.839
is the emotion that we have allowed to occur in
528
00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:06.680
our lives because of that fear. And to be able
529
00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:10.960
to change that mindset and be able to recognize that, Okay,
530
00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:14.640
I'm starting to feel anxious. Why Why and all of
531
00:31:14.680 --> 00:31:16.759
a sudden as you start to look at that and
532
00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:19.240
kind of step outside of yourself and start to really
533
00:31:19.319 --> 00:31:20.680
analyze what's going on.
534
00:31:20.960 --> 00:31:22.240
That can make such a difference.
535
00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:24.160
Now, I know you've got some good stories, do you
536
00:31:24.480 --> 00:31:26.880
any of them that you can share? As far as
537
00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:29.559
working with clients and what has happened for them?
538
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:33.440
I suppose the most common generic one that I deal
539
00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:37.920
with with corporate class. The biggest problem that people have
540
00:31:38.400 --> 00:31:41.720
and non smiling is that they get promoted, not that
541
00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:44.480
they lose their job. Because if people lose their job,
542
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:47.359
it's pretty simple as to what you have to do
543
00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:52.559
and helping them. And you know, all of those mechanisms
544
00:31:52.599 --> 00:31:57.599
that are in place in corporate society, recruitment consultants and cvs,
545
00:31:57.640 --> 00:32:00.359
and you know, there's a kind of set process. But
546
00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:02.880
what happens when you actually get what you wish for
547
00:32:03.319 --> 00:32:06.599
and you're or don't and you're promoted into a role
548
00:32:06.839 --> 00:32:10.720
that is way beyond you. You know, when you know
549
00:32:10.759 --> 00:32:15.680
that people like Michelle Obama have got imposter syndrome, then
550
00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:18.880
then you know that anybody can get it right. And
551
00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:23.240
imposter syndrome is absolutely I am. I am surprised in
552
00:32:23.319 --> 00:32:25.359
the time that I've set up this business. I had
553
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:29.440
no idea just how prevalent imposter syndrome is.
554
00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:32.759
Define impasture syndrome through the artist.
555
00:32:32.839 --> 00:32:35.519
Oh, I'm not I'm not good enough. I am not
556
00:32:35.559 --> 00:32:38.680
as good as everybody thinks I am. I don't deserve
557
00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:41.079
to be here, I don't deserve to have what I've got,
558
00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:45.640
and I'm a complete fraud. And at some point somebody
559
00:32:45.720 --> 00:32:49.359
is going to find me out. And if I'm if
560
00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:51.880
I'm promoted, then they're going to find out faster.
561
00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:54.720
And yeah, they want their promotion. They want their promotion.
562
00:32:54.920 --> 00:32:59.960
Yeah, because they've had that conversation with me. They define
563
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:02.039
what the heart of gold looks like at the end
564
00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:03.960
of their rainbow where they're trying to get to in
565
00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:08.359
their life. And this is this role is absolutely part
566
00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:11.079
of the roadmap. So I know I want it, but
567
00:33:11.119 --> 00:33:13.119
I don't want it. I want it, but I don't
568
00:33:13.160 --> 00:33:14.839
want I can do this. I haven't got a clue
569
00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:17.480
how to do this. You know, all these all these
570
00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:20.839
things are going on in our minds. So the thing
571
00:33:20.920 --> 00:33:25.319
to do is really to help people just rationalize, tether
572
00:33:25.400 --> 00:33:30.000
them back to planet and just say why do you think?
573
00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:32.279
Why do you think you? And I have done this.
574
00:33:32.559 --> 00:33:35.240
I did this just quite recently actually with somebody. But
575
00:33:35.279 --> 00:33:39.160
I'm trying to keep it reasonably generic that that that
576
00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:42.920
person was saying exactly all of those things, I'm going
577
00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:45.160
to get found out. And I said, Okay, why do
578
00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:48.960
you think you've been promoted? So don't use their words,
579
00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:54.039
use their bosses, their new bosses words. So why why
580
00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:57.119
were they given so you somebody else's words? Because we're
581
00:33:57.200 --> 00:34:00.000
much more likely to believe other people than ourselves. I'm
582
00:34:00.039 --> 00:34:02.559
the least trustworthy person here. I don't know what I'm
583
00:34:02.599 --> 00:34:04.880
talking about, and I don't deserve this role. You know,
584
00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:08.119
that's the mindset that we're in. So why do they
585
00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:12.000
think that you were worthy? Can you call on any
586
00:34:12.039 --> 00:34:15.840
experience that you've been through that would make you think that,
587
00:34:16.039 --> 00:34:19.719
actually you've got the basic foundations and the gap here, Yeah,
588
00:34:19.719 --> 00:34:22.199
there's a gap. There should be a gap. Nobody goes
589
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:25.440
into a new role fully competent. Otherwise it's not a
590
00:34:25.559 --> 00:34:29.199
challenge and it's not an adventure. But that gap may
591
00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:31.679
be smaller than you think. And it's really just a
592
00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:34.880
question of talking them through, working through with their fears
593
00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:37.360
and their anxieties. And you know, I've got a whole
594
00:34:37.400 --> 00:34:41.119
bunch of tools that can help people deal with that,
595
00:34:41.400 --> 00:34:46.679
and I mentioned rational thoughtfulness. That's a really useful one
596
00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:51.000
because it forces people to have a rational conversation with
597
00:34:51.039 --> 00:34:55.760
them and most of the time anxiety is not rational.
598
00:34:55.960 --> 00:35:00.639
In small doses, anxiety can actually be really helpful. Problem is,
599
00:35:01.159 --> 00:35:05.280
we're not very good at containing anxiety to to small doses.
600
00:35:05.960 --> 00:35:09.960
So one of the things I'm sorry, go ahead, sorry, oh,
601
00:35:10.079 --> 00:35:10.840
I was going to say.
602
00:35:10.840 --> 00:35:12.480
One of the things that you mentioned that I saw
603
00:35:12.519 --> 00:35:14.920
in one of your talking points was talking about a
604
00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:17.800
client that you that was self sabotaging.
605
00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:19.079
And that really struck me.
606
00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:21.960
Because I think so often in life we find ourselves
607
00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:27.000
self sabotaging and preventing ourselves from actually.
608
00:35:26.719 --> 00:35:29.960
Accomplishing what we could accomplish. Can you share the story?
609
00:35:30.039 --> 00:35:32.199
Can you Can you share that story with the ideas?
610
00:35:32.920 --> 00:35:37.440
Yeah? I can. I can absolutely share that. So, yeah,
611
00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:41.039
this this this person. It's quite kind of tiring, and
612
00:35:41.079 --> 00:35:45.599
it's frustrating when somebody doesn't see you know. I've been
613
00:35:45.639 --> 00:35:48.719
a CEO. I've led teams with hundreds of people based
614
00:35:48.760 --> 00:35:53.199
on four continents, and the hardest and easiest part of
615
00:35:53.239 --> 00:35:57.159
my job has been pulling the ego maniacs down off
616
00:35:57.199 --> 00:36:00.920
their misguided pedestals, you know, when they think that they're
617
00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:04.719
so much better than they actually are. It's frustrating to
618
00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:07.480
do the other way around though, when you are trying
619
00:36:07.519 --> 00:36:12.440
to convince really good talented people that they are they
620
00:36:12.440 --> 00:36:17.159
are better than they are. And you see that if
621
00:36:17.159 --> 00:36:20.239
you don't solve this problem, and if this problem doesn't
622
00:36:20.239 --> 00:36:23.599
get solved, then the trajectory that you can see for
623
00:36:23.679 --> 00:36:27.639
that person, for where they're going versus what their potential
624
00:36:27.679 --> 00:36:31.119
could take them to, that those lines are just company
625
00:36:31.280 --> 00:36:35.840
who diverge exponentially, and this person is going to be
626
00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:39.679
a waste of talent and dare I say it, in
627
00:36:39.719 --> 00:36:43.159
my opinion, a waste of life. And that's why I'm
628
00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:47.960
so keen that people embrace change, even the tough stuff,
629
00:36:48.280 --> 00:36:52.920
because it's really existential about why we're here. So anyway,
630
00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:55.960
this person just wasn't having a bar of it. That
631
00:36:56.079 --> 00:37:00.679
they wouldn't they wouldn't accept that they were ready to
632
00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:04.920
step up, that they were as good as I was saying.
633
00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:12.119
They thought I was just you know, being a nice coach. Sorry,
634
00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:16.519
and yeah, so it was really again just a question
635
00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:20.639
of talking through and when their mind was running away
636
00:37:20.679 --> 00:37:24.400
with them. I used another of my favorite tools, which
637
00:37:24.440 --> 00:37:28.559
is mindfulness with them. Now, everyone, it's good. These days,
638
00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:32.239
everyone knows what mindfulness is. And I don't claim to
639
00:37:32.239 --> 00:37:35.960
be an expert. I certainly don't do any of the
640
00:37:36.079 --> 00:37:39.719
technical stuff yoga and breathing and meditation and all of that.
641
00:37:40.159 --> 00:37:43.599
For me, even at its most base level, which is
642
00:37:43.800 --> 00:37:46.639
just that concept of living in the moment, it is
643
00:37:46.679 --> 00:37:52.079
the perfect antidotes to anxiety. And here's why. Remember I said,
644
00:37:52.119 --> 00:37:56.880
anxiety is about your negative, your perceived negative future states.
645
00:37:57.199 --> 00:37:59.440
So what we what we make for ourselves is this
646
00:37:59.599 --> 00:38:03.000
exponential curve going into the future where we fall off
647
00:38:03.039 --> 00:38:06.679
a cliff. Well, the more that we can live in
648
00:38:06.719 --> 00:38:10.559
the moment, the further back up that cliff we bring
649
00:38:10.599 --> 00:38:14.000
our mind and our thoughts. Now, I don't claim to
650
00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:17.599
be perfectly mindful. I don't always live just in the moment.
651
00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:21.360
But the more that you can live in today and
652
00:38:21.559 --> 00:38:25.119
understand that mindfulness is about letting go of the future,
653
00:38:25.320 --> 00:38:28.599
letting go of the past, letting go of judgment, and
654
00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:31.519
just accepting things and appreciating things for what they are
655
00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:35.440
right here, right now, then by definition, the more that
656
00:38:35.480 --> 00:38:38.840
you're doing that, the less, by definition that you can
657
00:38:38.960 --> 00:38:43.519
feel anxious, and it's that anxiety about if I accept
658
00:38:43.519 --> 00:38:47.320
this job, if I dare to believe that I'm as
659
00:38:47.360 --> 00:38:51.639
good as this guy is saying I am, then all
660
00:38:51.679 --> 00:38:55.239
of these expectations will be upon me, and that's a burden.
661
00:38:55.679 --> 00:38:58.639
I just don't think that this person just didn't think
662
00:38:58.639 --> 00:39:02.079
that they were capable of doing those things. And what
663
00:39:02.079 --> 00:39:05.119
you've got to do is rationalize with them, make them
664
00:39:05.159 --> 00:39:08.400
live in the moment, make them turn all of that
665
00:39:08.840 --> 00:39:12.119
energy in their mind that was going towards the anxiety.
666
00:39:12.719 --> 00:39:16.360
Here's the thing, right. Your brain only weighs three percent
667
00:39:16.360 --> 00:39:19.239
of your body weight, but it consumes twenty percent of
668
00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:23.400
your energy. So when people say that anxiety is exhausting,
669
00:39:23.480 --> 00:39:28.480
they're not talking metaphorically. It actually consumes calories and it
670
00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:32.599
is genuinely exhausting. And if Penn State University are right,
671
00:39:32.719 --> 00:39:35.679
then most of that energy is wasted. And my job
672
00:39:36.199 --> 00:39:41.599
is to help people the self sabotages or the people
673
00:39:41.599 --> 00:39:44.880
who think they've got impostera syndrome, is to help them
674
00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:48.400
use all of that energy and turn it on its head.
675
00:39:48.440 --> 00:39:51.440
It becomes a double whammy. Not only have we neutralized
676
00:39:51.480 --> 00:39:53.920
that negative, but we've then got all of that energy
677
00:39:53.960 --> 00:39:59.039
available to us to actually do the rational thoughtfulness so
678
00:39:59.079 --> 00:40:01.840
that I can have a proper conversation with myself about
679
00:40:02.079 --> 00:40:04.960
am I really thinking the right thoughts when I say
680
00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:07.800
I'm not good enough? And and nine times out of ten,
681
00:40:07.880 --> 00:40:10.679
if I'm telling somebody that they're good I'm pretty tough,
682
00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:13.880
you know, as a pretty tough CEO. If I'm telling
683
00:40:13.880 --> 00:40:16.119
people they're good enough, then then the chances are they
684
00:40:16.119 --> 00:40:19.440
probably are and they'll come to that conclusion. You know.
685
00:40:19.840 --> 00:40:22.239
In this case, I got most of the way there.
686
00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:24.559
Great, So so let me ask you a question.
687
00:40:24.639 --> 00:40:26.519
How do people find you? And I know you've written
688
00:40:26.519 --> 00:40:29.559
an ebook. What's the name of that book? And how
689
00:40:29.559 --> 00:40:32.639
can people access that book? As far as what is
690
00:40:32.679 --> 00:40:34.360
it called? Mastering Adaptability?
691
00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:38.159
That's right? Yeah, So everything you need to know about
692
00:40:38.199 --> 00:40:42.960
the work that I do is on high Performance Change
693
00:40:43.280 --> 00:40:46.960
dot com. That's all one word, high Performance change dot com.
694
00:40:47.039 --> 00:40:49.440
There's the ebook on there, there's access to the ebook,
695
00:40:49.800 --> 00:40:53.199
there's lots of blogs on there, there's videos, it's all
696
00:40:53.239 --> 00:40:56.440
it's all free. The ebook is free. It's for anybody
697
00:40:57.239 --> 00:41:01.480
who wants it. It's there, and I'm I'm delighted to
698
00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:04.719
open the doors to whoever is interested. Oh, wonderful.
699
00:41:05.239 --> 00:41:08.480
So as we're close, is there a final message.
700
00:41:08.039 --> 00:41:10.320
That you'd like to share with the idea? Well, there is,
701
00:41:10.760 --> 00:41:13.920
and it is this and what really excites me, and
702
00:41:14.000 --> 00:41:16.559
it comes back to an earlier point. The only thing
703
00:41:16.639 --> 00:41:18.920
that I would want anyone to take away and remember
704
00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:22.440
about anything that I've said is this. It is entirely
705
00:41:22.559 --> 00:41:26.840
possible to become more adaptable. It is not something that
706
00:41:27.039 --> 00:41:29.719
is baked into your DNA and that you're just lucky
707
00:41:29.840 --> 00:41:33.320
or not lucky enough to be born with. We call
708
00:41:33.400 --> 00:41:36.000
it a form of intelligence because it can be learned
709
00:41:36.360 --> 00:41:40.199
and applied. Looks like maths or musical or martial art.
710
00:41:40.599 --> 00:41:44.599
Adaptability intelligence is just another form of intelligence, and you
711
00:41:44.639 --> 00:41:47.519
can learn it. We've provided a roadmap that will take
712
00:41:47.559 --> 00:41:49.920
you from the fear of change through to the freedom
713
00:41:49.960 --> 00:41:53.639
to change. And although there's only four steps on that ladder,
714
00:41:53.800 --> 00:41:57.199
it's life changing and anybody who can do it if
715
00:41:57.239 --> 00:41:57.760
they want to.
716
00:41:58.159 --> 00:42:01.079
Wonderful, Well, Rich, thanks so much. Is this has been
717
00:42:01.079 --> 00:42:02.000
a great conversation.
718
00:42:02.559 --> 00:42:05.280
I've really enjoyed it. Thanks so much for having me on. Well,
719
00:42:05.320 --> 00:42:06.320
I really appreciate it.
720
00:42:06.360 --> 00:42:08.079
And folks, I hope, I hope this has made a
721
00:42:08.119 --> 00:42:10.760
difference for you and get get on that website. I've
722
00:42:10.800 --> 00:42:14.119
actually gone there is fascinating and to have an ebook
723
00:42:14.159 --> 00:42:17.119
that you can download is really tremendous and thank you
724
00:42:17.159 --> 00:42:20.760
for that Rich. So meanwhile, folks, thanks for listening. Hope
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00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:23.920
you'll join us again soon. This is doctor Doug saying
726
00:42:24.199 --> 00:42:31.559
no mistay