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The Inside Learning Podcast is brought
to you by the Learnovate Center.
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Learnovate research explores the power
of learning to unlock human potential.
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Find out more about learnovate research
on the science of learning and the
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future of work at learnovatecentre.org.
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Today's classrooms have changed, our
attention has changed, and the tools we
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use to learn are changing even faster.
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Many teachers report that students
are harder to engage than they were
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before the pandemic yet platforms built
around play curiosity and interaction
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seem to be cutting through that fog.
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Our guest works for Europe's
largest EdTech company.
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He has spent his career at the
intersection of technology,
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pedagogy, and motivation.
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His work focuses on how interactive
learning, gamification, and now AI
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can help teachers create environments
where students participate,
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not just sit through content.
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We'll explore what this means for
classrooms, for learner psychology,
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and for the future of education
in a world where attention has
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become the scarce resource,
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it is a pleasure to welcome
Chief Solutions Officer at Kahoot
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sean Darcy, welcome to the show.
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thanks so much, Aiden.
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It's great to be here
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with you today.
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Great to have you.
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And I'd say people were expecting
an Irish accent there, Sean as well.
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Do my best, but you'll have
to settle for Canadian today.
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Sean was telling me when he comes
into Ireland often he'll be greeted
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by the passport officers and
they'll say, welcome home Mr. Darcy.
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My middle name is actually Patrick,
so it's like my, parents couldn't
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get enough of the Irish name,
so they had to give me a middle
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name, Patrick, in addition to Sean
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let's get stuck on, we've
a lot to get through.
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I've been t trawling through your
articles that you've written on the
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Kahoot blog, but you've, as I said
in the intro, worked across education
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markets for years, and I wondered what
was the biggest shift you've seen in
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how students show up in learning today?
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Even before the pandemic, I think we
saw a big shift already happening.
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I think teachers, and we have around
9 million active teachers on our
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platform in the last 12 months.
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and they all struggle with the same thing.
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And that's really engaging kids to really,
really attend to whatever's being taught.
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If you'd look at the shift, a few years
ago it was really , paying attention.
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Then more recently it's
become just showing up at all.
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one of the big trends we see in the US
particular are a lot of schools that where
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, the students actually aren't class.
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So really we need to have solutions
out there that are actually helping
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only help kids to drive learning
outcomes, but just at the most basic
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level, just really show up to learn.
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And, that's really the challenge.
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when Sean, did you see the real
shift towards engagement and
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the use of tools like Kahoot?
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Pre pandemic, the trend
was, really ramping up.
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And I think in the classroom,
at least with the advent of 1:2:1
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devices or Chromebooks, apple iPads
that really accelerated things.
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Uh, and then when the pandemic hit
obviously everything just went into
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hyper speed at that point where.
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It wasn't just a nice to have,
it was a must have a solution
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where, kids were at home.
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They really needed to, be focused.
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The teacher needed to do everything
they could and have the tools in their
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toolkit to actually engage them.
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So that's when things really took off.
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and then what we saw post pandemic
is the sort of continuation a,
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a new sort of level setting of.
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What was expected in learning with,
more engaging solutions like ours
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being used in day-to-day teaching.
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I wondered about this, Sean are people
blaming reducing attention spans of
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students or are they blaming maybe an
uplift in the amount of information
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expected to be learned by students?
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That's a good question.
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I think it's a bit of both really.
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I think there's no.
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Denying that, , kids are
learning and they're spending
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their time differently than they
did, five years or 10 years ago.
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They're spending a lot more time in
different gamified or gaming environments,
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so when they come to school, there's an
expectation that, at least some gaming
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elements are brought into the classroom
and brought into the way they can learn.
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and when it comes to the kind of
curriculum that's being taught, What
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has been changing over time though, is
the need for more skill development.
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And so we're big fans of future
Ready Skills as we call 'em.
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And we have a couple of pedagogies such
as something called Learners to Leaders,
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which is all about kids creating their
own Kahoots to play with their classmates.
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We really like this because it
helps develop critical thinking
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collaboration, communication, and
even leadership types of skills.
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I think that sort of skillset
development is, becoming more and
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more front and center in addition
to, of course, the curriculum.
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of course, AI is.
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Here, and you know,, I have
children myself, 15 and 12.
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They're AI natives, so they don't
see it as this brand new thing,
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but they don't really use it yet.
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And certainly they're not
using it in the classroom.
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And I wondered where you see it used and
maybe potentially used in the future.
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So primarily for us, it's
the educators that are using
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it today to create Kahoots.
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And so far it's been an amazing time
saver for them because they can just
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take a document that they have it
could be PDF, or it could be PowerPoint
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or it could be anything they have and
really just upload it to Kahoot and
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voila, they have an instant Kahoot,
which saved them probably an hour, maybe
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an hour and a half of time that they
would've spent making that Kahoot.
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And of course we use generative AI to do
this, but we're also able to enhance,
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any presentation that anybody has.
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Could be even, at the work
in the workplace as well.
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If you wanna add engagement
to any sort of presentation,
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you can do that with Kahoot.
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So I think hoots really been
or the way we've been using
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AI has really been to help.
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Productivity.
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But I think as we move ahead, we're
gonna be using it hopefully more for
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personalized learning and also through
analytics as well, being able to make
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sure that we're seeing the learning
outcomes and if we're not, how to actually
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get to mastery by using AI to, have
supplemental types of review in addition
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to what was being taught in class.
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There was one thing I was thinking
about recently, Sean, where AI learns
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from the content on the internet,
and then I read recently that.
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Up to 50% of content on the
internet is actually written by ai.
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I was like, oh, this is like,
it's cannibalizing itself.
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It's using itself to fuel itself.
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Yes.
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And then I thought about, I lecture
in Trinity College here in Ireland,
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and I was thinking about how, and
I tell the students this, , don't
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write your essay with ai.
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Purely, yes.
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Use it as a way to challenge your ideas,
but don't get it to do writing for you.
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And then I heard about some
teachers and some professors who
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are using AI to correct the essays.
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And I thought about the same
thing, AI's write the essays.
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And then I was correcting
the essays at the same time.
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And then I wondered like, how
do we, use AI without getting
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people to lose curiosity and
engage them in a different way.
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Yeah, I think the essay as a
format is really under duress.
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I would say it's a tricky one.
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But the format that we are really
keen to try to bring front and
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center is more this discussion, you,
how to create discussions, how to
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create conversations in a class.
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And I think Kahoot using ai, that can
be a really good combo for creating,
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thought starters and things like that.
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we have one feature on our platform
called Brainstorm, which allows you to do
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really quick, brainstorms really around
any topic and really ga and gamified
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as well, so making it even more fun.
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So I think being able to quickly
jump into any discussion area and use
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AI as a sort of jumping point is
really what we are excited about.
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but I do agree with you though
the essay format , is definitely.
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especially if both sides are
using AI to both create and correct.
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That's that's a rough.
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Defeats the purpose.
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Absolutely.
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I also have some kids.
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And , I say the exact same thing.
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You can use it as a, as a way to
sort of boot up, what your thoughts
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are and try to get them down.
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But don't use it as the actual, whatever
you , do not use it as the actual
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essay.
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The thing I always be worried
about is that we lose that muscle.
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Like, I mean, if you can't, the
struggle is where the learning happens.
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You have to go through
that struggle to learn.
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again like these future ready skills are,
the ability to do the critical thinking.
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That's really, that's everything, right?
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And especially looking ahead,
the job markets changing, the
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needs of society are changing.
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the ability to be able to think
through what you're doing is
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never been more important.
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To be able to use AI to help you build
those skills, I think is really the
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most important thing at this moment.
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And speaking of that, Sean, the job
market and how the workplace has
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changed and lifelong learning is now
something that's with us more than ever
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before that we need to have on-ramps
and off ramps into education systems
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and a lot of people who have had an
education experience, hadn't the best
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experience, they don't remember it fondly.
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So therefore we need to actually
change how that works for people.
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What are you seeing out there of
people who are doing that right?
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The workforce is changing completely.
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I think we are seeing the Gen Zs that are
coming into the workforce they just expect
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very different approach to learning.
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Than any other previous generation.
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the need for upskilling is ongoing.
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And you know, this is a generation
that's used to using YouTube to
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learn about anything on the fly.
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And they're not gonna wait around for
a course made by the l and d team.
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They're, they wanna know
now, they wanna learn now.
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So that whole.
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Yeah, it's that whole construct of like
how to do upskilling now is just, it's
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more on demand and more micro learning
and less courseware, so to speak.
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So I think that's one side of it.
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I think the other side of it is
just general engagement in the.
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Place is in kind of a tough spot.
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There was a, a report made by Gallup
earlier this year that showed that the
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global percentage of engaged employees
were, that were engaged was down to 21%.
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Only one in five were actually felt
engaged at their, in their work.
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So I think in general.
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The learning is one part, but just,
generally engaging employees, especially
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the youngest employees that are
coming into the workforce, I think
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is really the struggle out there.
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So those are a couple things and I
think we like to think, of course of
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course we're, I'm, we're biased but
we'd like to think that we are really
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helping, different companies out there.
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Drive engagement and really, of course,
beyond engagement, drive, ROI on
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whatever, whatever matters for them.
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It could be, product productivity, some
of the, we work with a lot of airlines.
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A lot of hospitality, A lot of them
are saying we need our new employees
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to get onboarded as fast as possible.
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We wanna retain them on the other side.
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How do you, what kind of tools are
out there that can help us do that
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quickly in a way that's reinforcing
and, positive and hopefully memorable?
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There are a lot of good examples out
there, but certainly things are changing.
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And Sean, speaking of the change,
one of the things that's coming at
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us like a freight train has already
hit many companies and individuals
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is layoffs in companies and layoffs
for AI optimization or just not
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being hired in the first place.
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But let's focus on layoffs because I read
an article you wrote, which was called
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Training After Layoffs, three Strategies
to Rebuild Engagement and Performance.
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I'd love to share some of that
because , not enough people in
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my view are calling this out.
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This is gonna be inevitable and it's gonna
be inevitable for people who get into
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the workforce and maybe their industry is
disrupted, let alone their organization.
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So they're gonna have to go through
reengagement, retraining, upskilling,
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reskilling, unlearning, relearning.
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And the, that piece of the world is
very different than it has been before
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where you had some bit of job security.
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one of the things that's interesting
in that article is you talk about it's
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not just the people who have been laid
off, it's also the morale impact to the
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wider organization and particular Gen Z.
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I mean, we found, I mean, just
that article actually came from
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just speaking to customers.
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And some of them had said
to us that they use Kahoot.
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Of course if you've ever experienced
the layoff round at any company,
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it's of course tough, obviously for
everyone who's been laid off, but
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it's also very hard on the culture.
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everybody left.
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So how do you reignite the culture?
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How do you get people moving
in the right direction?
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If there's a new strategy that's
accompanying all that layoff, , how do
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you communicate that and have it stick?
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So we've heard from our customers that
are, they've been using Kahoot because
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of course, it's a very engaging platform.
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And in a time of when people are not
feeling very good then, you know, to play
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Kahoot is a very democratic and fun way
to get the spirit , back in action and
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hopefully the company back on its feet.
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And I think just being
empathetic to the folks that are.
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That are left after a layoff.
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I don't think that's really ever done.
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I think it's mostly like,
okay, you survived the layoff.
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You should be happy with
that and let's move on.
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But the reality is there's a
lingering feeling about that.
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And there, there needs to be
tools and solutions that sort
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of help people move past that.
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And hopefully become productive again.
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And I, again, we've heard this from
our customers who have used it.
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I've been working here at
Kahoot for 8, 9 years now.
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I'm always blown away at all of the
different ways that our customers actually
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tell us that they actually use Kahoot.
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And this is one of them, this
was just like, Hey, we had
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some layoffs at our company.
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We thought Kahoot, would be
a great way to get people
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back in the saddle, so to speak.
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And hopefully feeling a little bit
better about the direction forward.
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And that was an insight I would
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say.
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Absolutely.
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And as you say, it's not something
that's often thought about for
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people and particularly the
impact on different generations.
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Some older generations may have
seen it before, younger generations,
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first time not seeing it.
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And with the choices they have
as well, they just go, I'm gonna
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get outta here before I'm let go.
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And
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it's, it's just a very
interesting article.
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, But let's move on.
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'cause I wanted to just share
a couple of things that.
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Would be maybe practical takeaways
for our listeners, because some
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of them are college professors,
school leaders, et cetera.
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And you mentioned here.
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That you can use Kahoot in different
ways, but if somebody wanted to
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get started tomorrow, say, let's
take a few different users here.
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So let's start with the teacher.
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So how do you get started?
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You talked about their
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Right.
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and discussion in the classroom, and
then we'll move maybe to somebody in
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l and d or organizational learning.
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I mean, you know, again, we've been
around since 2012 and we have our
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mission is making learning Awesome.
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As part of that, we are deeply committed
to making sure that teachers everywhere
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have a fantastic free version of Kahoot.
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So any teacher today can go to
coot.com, sign up for free, and then
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start using Kahoot from day one.
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Now, the kinds of things they'll
do with it to begin with are
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typically very basic kind of review.
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So that's the number one use case to
do it at the end of a, for example,
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chapter or, something like that.
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They could use it for an icebreaker.
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So if you have a new class or, some
kind of way to, maybe it's with, adults
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who could have professional development.
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it's used really well there.
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Kouts also used for synchronous
learning as well, so a lot
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of people don't know that.
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They think it's only live.
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In the classroom or live training,
but it's actually used quite
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extensively for asynchronous
sort of self-directed learning.
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In fact, we have many students
around the world who are using
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K for studying on their own.
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So one of the things a teacher can do
is of course, create a Kahoot share
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it with the students after a class
or maybe before class if they're doing
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a blended learning type of thing to
actually ensure that the kids are
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either really up to speed on a
topic before they go into the classroom,
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or of course to follow up after, to
make sure to reinforce that learning.
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So that's the K 12 experience.
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And of course we have lots
of game-based game modes.
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We call them if you're not.
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If you don't wanna do the standard quiz,
we have a whole bunch of many different
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ways you can use the same Kahoot so
that it never gets boring or dull.
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Now, on the higher ed side the higher ed
a lot of people don't know this as well,
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that KU can be used for presentations.
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we actually created, a new
mode specifically for higher
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ed called lecture mode.
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Which will , you could use AI for
this, but it'll just spin your any
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presentation that you might have and
it'll just add some interactivity to it.
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Either co questions or use it with
either co questions or it can actually add
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or discussion points or things like that.
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so a lot of a lot of educators in
higher ed are using code that way.
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CO is also if you, as part of
the upgraded CO EDU package it
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integrates with any LMS.
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And, you can do things like player
ID on in the higher ed side if you
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wanna do things like attendance
and, and those sorts of things.
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So those are more like, admin
functionality, but they're also pretty
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interesting, I think for teachers
who want to have a little bit more.
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Understanding on the analytics
side of how kids are, or how
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are my students learning or not?
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And Sean, last one for you, and I'm being
selfish here as a lecturer, so this year
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I. Had the same realization you mentioned
there, where I put less emphasis on the
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assay and more on the group presentation.
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So
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Yep.
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The marks changed for those things.
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I'm now, as you said, more interested
in how do I ensure more audience
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engagement where like you said,
they're building their own Kahoots.
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They're also teaching each other in
ways, and I'd love you to share that.
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So for people who in there who
are maybe teaching to 25-year-old,
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30-year-old students, what can they
do that's different in an age of.
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Oh yeah.
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So for students so one of the great
things is with ai is that you can just
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take a picture of your notes, for example.
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And that picture you can upload to
Kahoot and it will spin that all of your
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notes into a study AI or study Kahoot.
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And if you're in a group you
can share that to a group.
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And of course, if everybody
does the same thing, then let's
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say there's five students who
were in a study group together.
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Each of them made.
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One Kahoot from their notes.
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Then all of a sudden you have
quite a lot of study material
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that you can share around.
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And it's of course very engaging and
hopefully, hopefully will help you prepare
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for any exam or tests that you have.
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So that's the way we're
seeing it being used today.
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So either it's being used by
students to just study on their own.
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Again, AI is a. Kid kids are not going
to students, 25-year-old student, is.
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gonna spend a whole lot of time making
a Kahoot, but they'll certainly upload,
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all of their notes quickly to Kahoot.
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And they'll, and the Kahoot will
just make it all for them, all of the
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study cos that they need, and again,
Kahoot's all about social learning.
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So that group element of being able
to share with a group and have that
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sort of interaction with each other
as you learn together, I think is
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really a key differentiator for Kahoot
in the higher ed side of things.
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Sean, any final thoughts in this
age of AI and rapid change with
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regards to the education system?
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And also I'd love you to share
where people can find you.
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I think in this age of ai, it's
also important to remember that,
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for Kahoot at least, our mission
is around making, learning awesome.
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Everybody knows Kahoot
is an engaging platform.
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But what they may not know is,
we really try to underline the
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learning and make learning awesome.
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And everything we do is
built around pedagogy.
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and we're really making sure that
we're thinking through whatever
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we build on the platform it
has to drive a learning result.
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and so that, I think that's, a key.
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Takeaway , for your audience and
hopefully for yourself as well, it's
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not just fun and games, it's actually
about driving learning outcomes.
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And that's really important for us.
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and then once again, as a follow
up, it's the easiest thing to
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do is just to go to Kahoot.com.
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Create an account and
then just get started.
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It's as easy as that.
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You can, sign up , and just start
making a Kahoot and hopefully start
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playing a Kahoot the same day.
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It's that easy.
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.
Chief Solutions Officer at Kahoot.
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Sean Patrick Darcy,
thank you for joining us.
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Thank you so much for having me,
and hopefully everybody out there
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can get their Kahooting going.
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Thanks for joining us on Inside Learning.
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00:22:28,492 --> 00:22:32,122
Inside Learning is brought to you by the
Learnovate Center in Trinity College.
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00:22:32,122 --> 00:22:36,232
Dublin Learnovate is funded by
Enterprise Ireland and IDA Ireland.
392
00:22:36,322 --> 00:22:40,762
Visit learnovate center.org to find out
more about our research on the science
393
00:22:40,762 --> 00:22:42,322
of learning and the future of work.
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,960
The Inside Learning Podcast is brought
to you by the Learnovate Center.
2
00:00:04,110 --> 00:00:08,460
Learnovate research explores the power
of learning to unlock human potential.
3
00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:12,150
Find out more about learnovate research
on the science of learning and the
4
00:00:12,150 --> 00:00:15,049
future of work at learnovatecentre.org.
5
00:00:15,399 --> 00:00:19,839
Today's classrooms have changed, our
attention has changed, and the tools we
6
00:00:19,839 --> 00:00:22,089
use to learn are changing even faster.
7
00:00:22,944 --> 00:00:26,424
Many teachers report that students
are harder to engage than they were
8
00:00:26,424 --> 00:00:31,674
before the pandemic yet platforms built
around play curiosity and interaction
9
00:00:31,674 --> 00:00:33,564
seem to be cutting through that fog.
10
00:00:34,134 --> 00:00:37,254
Our guest works for Europe's
largest EdTech company.
11
00:00:37,614 --> 00:00:40,404
He has spent his career at the
intersection of technology,
12
00:00:40,404 --> 00:00:42,534
pedagogy, and motivation.
13
00:00:42,954 --> 00:00:47,754
His work focuses on how interactive
learning, gamification, and now AI
14
00:00:47,754 --> 00:00:51,714
can help teachers create environments
where students participate,
15
00:00:51,924 --> 00:00:53,784
not just sit through content.
16
00:00:54,624 --> 00:00:58,854
We'll explore what this means for
classrooms, for learner psychology,
17
00:00:58,854 --> 00:01:02,154
and for the future of education
in a world where attention has
18
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become the scarce resource,
19
00:01:04,614 --> 00:01:08,134
it is a pleasure to welcome
Chief Solutions Officer at Kahoot
20
00:01:08,284 --> 00:01:10,039
sean Darcy, welcome to the show.
21
00:01:10,390 --> 00:01:11,260
thanks so much, Aiden.
22
00:01:11,260 --> 00:01:12,010
It's great to be here
23
00:01:12,010 --> 00:01:12,305
with you today.
24
00:01:12,805 --> 00:01:13,765
Great to have you.
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00:01:13,765 --> 00:01:17,305
And I'd say people were expecting
an Irish accent there, Sean as well.
26
00:01:17,417 --> 00:01:19,967
Do my best, but you'll have
to settle for Canadian today.
27
00:01:20,404 --> 00:01:23,974
Sean was telling me when he comes
into Ireland often he'll be greeted
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by the passport officers and
they'll say, welcome home Mr. Darcy.
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My middle name is actually Patrick,
so it's like my, parents couldn't
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00:01:32,525 --> 00:01:34,775
get enough of the Irish name,
so they had to give me a middle
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00:01:34,775 --> 00:01:36,755
name, Patrick, in addition to Sean
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00:01:36,821 --> 00:01:38,651
let's get stuck on, we've
a lot to get through.
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I've been t trawling through your
articles that you've written on the
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00:01:42,311 --> 00:01:46,941
Kahoot blog, but you've, as I said
in the intro, worked across education
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00:01:46,941 --> 00:01:51,231
markets for years, and I wondered what
was the biggest shift you've seen in
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00:01:51,231 --> 00:01:53,601
how students show up in learning today?
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00:01:54,127 --> 00:01:58,297
Even before the pandemic, I think we
saw a big shift already happening.
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00:01:59,167 --> 00:02:03,487
I think teachers, and we have around
9 million active teachers on our
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platform in the last 12 months.
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00:02:05,737 --> 00:02:08,737
and they all struggle with the same thing.
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And that's really engaging kids to really,
really attend to whatever's being taught.
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00:02:14,964 --> 00:02:19,724
If you'd look at the shift, a few years
ago it was really , paying attention.
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Then more recently it's
become just showing up at all.
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00:02:24,814 --> 00:02:30,304
one of the big trends we see in the US
particular are a lot of schools that where
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00:02:30,304 --> 00:02:32,974
, the students actually aren't class.
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00:02:33,454 --> 00:02:37,654
So really we need to have solutions
out there that are actually helping
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00:02:38,434 --> 00:02:42,304
only help kids to drive learning
outcomes, but just at the most basic
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00:02:42,304 --> 00:02:45,174
level, just really show up to learn.
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00:02:45,834 --> 00:02:47,329
And, that's really the challenge.
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00:02:47,886 --> 00:02:51,966
when Sean, did you see the real
shift towards engagement and
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00:02:51,966 --> 00:02:53,226
the use of tools like Kahoot?
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00:02:53,517 --> 00:02:56,577
Pre pandemic, the trend
was, really ramping up.
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And I think in the classroom,
at least with the advent of 1:2:1
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devices or Chromebooks, apple iPads
that really accelerated things.
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Uh, and then when the pandemic hit
obviously everything just went into
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hyper speed at that point where.
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It wasn't just a nice to have,
it was a must have a solution
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where, kids were at home.
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They really needed to, be focused.
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The teacher needed to do everything
they could and have the tools in their
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toolkit to actually engage them.
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So that's when things really took off.
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and then what we saw post pandemic
is the sort of continuation a,
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a new sort of level setting of.
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What was expected in learning with,
more engaging solutions like ours
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being used in day-to-day teaching.
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I wondered about this, Sean are people
blaming reducing attention spans of
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students or are they blaming maybe an
uplift in the amount of information
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expected to be learned by students?
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That's a good question.
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I think it's a bit of both really.
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I think there's no.
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Denying that, , kids are
learning and they're spending
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their time differently than they
did, five years or 10 years ago.
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They're spending a lot more time in
different gamified or gaming environments,
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so when they come to school, there's an
expectation that, at least some gaming
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elements are brought into the classroom
and brought into the way they can learn.
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and when it comes to the kind of
curriculum that's being taught, What
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has been changing over time though, is
the need for more skill development.
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And so we're big fans of future
Ready Skills as we call 'em.
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And we have a couple of pedagogies such
as something called Learners to Leaders,
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which is all about kids creating their
own Kahoots to play with their classmates.
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We really like this because it
helps develop critical thinking
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collaboration, communication, and
even leadership types of skills.
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I think that sort of skillset
development is, becoming more and
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more front and center in addition
to, of course, the curriculum.
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of course, AI is.
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Here, and you know,, I have
children myself, 15 and 12.
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They're AI natives, so they don't
see it as this brand new thing,
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but they don't really use it yet.
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And certainly they're not
using it in the classroom.
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And I wondered where you see it used and
maybe potentially used in the future.
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So primarily for us, it's
the educators that are using
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it today to create Kahoots.
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And so far it's been an amazing time
saver for them because they can just
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take a document that they have it
could be PDF, or it could be PowerPoint
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or it could be anything they have and
really just upload it to Kahoot and
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voila, they have an instant Kahoot,
which saved them probably an hour, maybe
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an hour and a half of time that they
would've spent making that Kahoot.
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And of course we use generative AI to do
this, but we're also able to enhance,
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any presentation that anybody has.
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Could be even, at the work
in the workplace as well.
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If you wanna add engagement
to any sort of presentation,
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you can do that with Kahoot.
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So I think hoots really been
or the way we've been using
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AI has really been to help.
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Productivity.
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But I think as we move ahead, we're
gonna be using it hopefully more for
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personalized learning and also through
analytics as well, being able to make
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sure that we're seeing the learning
outcomes and if we're not, how to actually
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get to mastery by using AI to, have
supplemental types of review in addition
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to what was being taught in class.
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There was one thing I was thinking
about recently, Sean, where AI learns
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from the content on the internet,
and then I read recently that.
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Up to 50% of content on the
internet is actually written by ai.
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I was like, oh, this is like,
it's cannibalizing itself.
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It's using itself to fuel itself.
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Yes.
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And then I thought about, I lecture
in Trinity College here in Ireland,
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and I was thinking about how, and
I tell the students this, , don't
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write your essay with ai.
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Purely, yes.
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Use it as a way to challenge your ideas,
but don't get it to do writing for you.
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And then I heard about some
teachers and some professors who
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are using AI to correct the essays.
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And I thought about the same
thing, AI's write the essays.
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And then I was correcting
the essays at the same time.
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And then I wondered like, how
do we, use AI without getting
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people to lose curiosity and
engage them in a different way.
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Yeah, I think the essay as a
format is really under duress.
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I would say it's a tricky one.
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But the format that we are really
keen to try to bring front and
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center is more this discussion, you,
how to create discussions, how to
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create conversations in a class.
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And I think Kahoot using ai, that can
be a really good combo for creating,
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thought starters and things like that.
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we have one feature on our platform
called Brainstorm, which allows you to do
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really quick, brainstorms really around
any topic and really ga and gamified
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as well, so making it even more fun.
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So I think being able to quickly
jump into any discussion area and use
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AI as a sort of jumping point is
really what we are excited about.
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but I do agree with you though
the essay format , is definitely.
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especially if both sides are
using AI to both create and correct.
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That's that's a rough.
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Defeats the purpose.
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Absolutely.
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I also have some kids.
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And , I say the exact same thing.
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You can use it as a, as a way to
sort of boot up, what your thoughts
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are and try to get them down.
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But don't use it as the actual, whatever
you , do not use it as the actual
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essay.
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The thing I always be worried
about is that we lose that muscle.
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Like, I mean, if you can't, the
struggle is where the learning happens.
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You have to go through
that struggle to learn.
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again like these future ready skills are,
the ability to do the critical thinking.
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That's really, that's everything, right?
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And especially looking ahead,
the job markets changing, the
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needs of society are changing.
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the ability to be able to think
through what you're doing is
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never been more important.
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To be able to use AI to help you build
those skills, I think is really the
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most important thing at this moment.
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And speaking of that, Sean, the job
market and how the workplace has
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changed and lifelong learning is now
something that's with us more than ever
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before that we need to have on-ramps
and off ramps into education systems
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and a lot of people who have had an
education experience, hadn't the best
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experience, they don't remember it fondly.
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So therefore we need to actually
change how that works for people.
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What are you seeing out there of
people who are doing that right?
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The workforce is changing completely.
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I think we are seeing the Gen Zs that are
coming into the workforce they just expect
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very different approach to learning.
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Than any other previous generation.
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the need for upskilling is ongoing.
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And you know, this is a generation
that's used to using YouTube to
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learn about anything on the fly.
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And they're not gonna wait around for
a course made by the l and d team.
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They're, they wanna know
now, they wanna learn now.
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So that whole.
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Yeah, it's that whole construct of like
how to do upskilling now is just, it's
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more on demand and more micro learning
and less courseware, so to speak.
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So I think that's one side of it.
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I think the other side of it is
just general engagement in the.
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Place is in kind of a tough spot.
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There was a, a report made by Gallup
earlier this year that showed that the
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global percentage of engaged employees
were, that were engaged was down to 21%.
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Only one in five were actually felt
engaged at their, in their work.
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So I think in general.
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The learning is one part, but just,
generally engaging employees, especially
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the youngest employees that are
coming into the workforce, I think
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is really the struggle out there.
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So those are a couple things and I
think we like to think, of course of
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course we're, I'm, we're biased but
we'd like to think that we are really
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helping, different companies out there.
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Drive engagement and really, of course,
beyond engagement, drive, ROI on
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whatever, whatever matters for them.
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It could be, product productivity, some
of the, we work with a lot of airlines.
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A lot of hospitality, A lot of them
are saying we need our new employees
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to get onboarded as fast as possible.
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We wanna retain them on the other side.
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How do you, what kind of tools are
out there that can help us do that
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quickly in a way that's reinforcing
and, positive and hopefully memorable?
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There are a lot of good examples out
there, but certainly things are changing.
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And Sean, speaking of the change,
one of the things that's coming at
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us like a freight train has already
hit many companies and individuals
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is layoffs in companies and layoffs
for AI optimization or just not
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being hired in the first place.
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But let's focus on layoffs because I read
an article you wrote, which was called
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Training After Layoffs, three Strategies
to Rebuild Engagement and Performance.
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I'd love to share some of that
because , not enough people in
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my view are calling this out.
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This is gonna be inevitable and it's gonna
be inevitable for people who get into
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the workforce and maybe their industry is
disrupted, let alone their organization.
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So they're gonna have to go through
reengagement, retraining, upskilling,
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reskilling, unlearning, relearning.
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And the, that piece of the world is
very different than it has been before
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where you had some bit of job security.
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one of the things that's interesting
in that article is you talk about it's
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not just the people who have been laid
off, it's also the morale impact to the
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wider organization and particular Gen Z.
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I mean, we found, I mean, just
that article actually came from
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just speaking to customers.
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And some of them had said
to us that they use Kahoot.
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Of course if you've ever experienced
the layoff round at any company,
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it's of course tough, obviously for
everyone who's been laid off, but
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it's also very hard on the culture.
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everybody left.
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So how do you reignite the culture?
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How do you get people moving
in the right direction?
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If there's a new strategy that's
accompanying all that layoff, , how do
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you communicate that and have it stick?
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So we've heard from our customers that
are, they've been using Kahoot because
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of course, it's a very engaging platform.
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And in a time of when people are not
feeling very good then, you know, to play
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Kahoot is a very democratic and fun way
to get the spirit , back in action and
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hopefully the company back on its feet.
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And I think just being
empathetic to the folks that are.
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That are left after a layoff.
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I don't think that's really ever done.
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I think it's mostly like,
okay, you survived the layoff.
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You should be happy with
that and let's move on.
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But the reality is there's a
lingering feeling about that.
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And there, there needs to be
tools and solutions that sort
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of help people move past that.
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And hopefully become productive again.
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And I, again, we've heard this from
our customers who have used it.
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I've been working here at
Kahoot for 8, 9 years now.
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I'm always blown away at all of the
different ways that our customers actually
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tell us that they actually use Kahoot.
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And this is one of them, this
was just like, Hey, we had
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some layoffs at our company.
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We thought Kahoot, would be
a great way to get people
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back in the saddle, so to speak.
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And hopefully feeling a little bit
better about the direction forward.
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And that was an insight I would
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say.
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Absolutely.
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And as you say, it's not something
that's often thought about for
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people and particularly the
impact on different generations.
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Some older generations may have
seen it before, younger generations,
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first time not seeing it.
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And with the choices they have
as well, they just go, I'm gonna
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get outta here before I'm let go.
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And
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it's, it's just a very
interesting article.
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, But let's move on.
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'cause I wanted to just share
a couple of things that.
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Would be maybe practical takeaways
for our listeners, because some
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of them are college professors,
school leaders, et cetera.
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And you mentioned here.
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That you can use Kahoot in different
ways, but if somebody wanted to
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get started tomorrow, say, let's
take a few different users here.
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So let's start with the teacher.
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So how do you get started?
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You talked about their
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Right.
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and discussion in the classroom, and
then we'll move maybe to somebody in
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l and d or organizational learning.
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I mean, you know, again, we've been
around since 2012 and we have our
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mission is making learning Awesome.
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As part of that, we are deeply committed
to making sure that teachers everywhere
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have a fantastic free version of Kahoot.
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So any teacher today can go to
coot.com, sign up for free, and then
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start using Kahoot from day one.
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Now, the kinds of things they'll
do with it to begin with are
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typically very basic kind of review.
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So that's the number one use case to
do it at the end of a, for example,
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chapter or, something like that.
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They could use it for an icebreaker.
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So if you have a new class or, some
kind of way to, maybe it's with, adults
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who could have professional development.
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it's used really well there.
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Kouts also used for synchronous
learning as well, so a lot
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of people don't know that.
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They think it's only live.
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In the classroom or live training,
but it's actually used quite
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extensively for asynchronous
sort of self-directed learning.
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In fact, we have many students
around the world who are using
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K for studying on their own.
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So one of the things a teacher can do
is of course, create a Kahoot share
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it with the students after a class
or maybe before class if they're doing
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a blended learning type of thing to
actually ensure that the kids are
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either really up to speed on a
topic before they go into the classroom,
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or of course to follow up after, to
make sure to reinforce that learning.
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So that's the K 12 experience.
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And of course we have lots
of game-based game modes.
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We call them if you're not.
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If you don't wanna do the standard quiz,
we have a whole bunch of many different
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ways you can use the same Kahoot so
that it never gets boring or dull.
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Now, on the higher ed side the higher ed
a lot of people don't know this as well,
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that KU can be used for presentations.
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we actually created, a new
mode specifically for higher
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ed called lecture mode.
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Which will , you could use AI for
this, but it'll just spin your any
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presentation that you might have and
it'll just add some interactivity to it.
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Either co questions or use it with
either co questions or it can actually add
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or discussion points or things like that.
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so a lot of a lot of educators in
higher ed are using code that way.
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CO is also if you, as part of
the upgraded CO EDU package it
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integrates with any LMS.
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And, you can do things like player
ID on in the higher ed side if you
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wanna do things like attendance
and, and those sorts of things.
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So those are more like, admin
functionality, but they're also pretty
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interesting, I think for teachers
who want to have a little bit more.
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Understanding on the analytics
side of how kids are, or how
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are my students learning or not?
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And Sean, last one for you, and I'm being
selfish here as a lecturer, so this year
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I. Had the same realization you mentioned
there, where I put less emphasis on the
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assay and more on the group presentation.
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So
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Yep.
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The marks changed for those things.
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I'm now, as you said, more interested
in how do I ensure more audience
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engagement where like you said,
they're building their own Kahoots.
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They're also teaching each other in
ways, and I'd love you to share that.
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So for people who in there who
are maybe teaching to 25-year-old,
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30-year-old students, what can they
do that's different in an age of.
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Oh yeah.
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So for students so one of the great
things is with ai is that you can just
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take a picture of your notes, for example.
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And that picture you can upload to
Kahoot and it will spin that all of your
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notes into a study AI or study Kahoot.
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And if you're in a group you
can share that to a group.
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And of course, if everybody
does the same thing, then let's
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say there's five students who
were in a study group together.
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Each of them made.
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One Kahoot from their notes.
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Then all of a sudden you have
quite a lot of study material
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that you can share around.
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And it's of course very engaging and
hopefully, hopefully will help you prepare
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for any exam or tests that you have.
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So that's the way we're
seeing it being used today.
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So either it's being used by
students to just study on their own.
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Again, AI is a. Kid kids are not going
to students, 25-year-old student, is.
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gonna spend a whole lot of time making
a Kahoot, but they'll certainly upload,
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all of their notes quickly to Kahoot.
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And they'll, and the Kahoot will
just make it all for them, all of the
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study cos that they need, and again,
Kahoot's all about social learning.
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So that group element of being able
to share with a group and have that
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sort of interaction with each other
as you learn together, I think is
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really a key differentiator for Kahoot
in the higher ed side of things.
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Sean, any final thoughts in this
age of AI and rapid change with
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regards to the education system?
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And also I'd love you to share
where people can find you.
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I think in this age of ai, it's
also important to remember that,
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for Kahoot at least, our mission
is around making, learning awesome.
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Everybody knows Kahoot
is an engaging platform.
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But what they may not know is,
we really try to underline the
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learning and make learning awesome.
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And everything we do is
built around pedagogy.
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and we're really making sure that
we're thinking through whatever
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we build on the platform it
has to drive a learning result.
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and so that, I think that's, a key.
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Takeaway , for your audience and
hopefully for yourself as well, it's
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not just fun and games, it's actually
about driving learning outcomes.
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And that's really important for us.
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and then once again, as a follow
up, it's the easiest thing to
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do is just to go to Kahoot.com.
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Create an account and
then just get started.
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It's as easy as that.
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You can, sign up , and just start
making a Kahoot and hopefully start
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playing a Kahoot the same day.
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It's that easy.
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.
Chief Solutions Officer at Kahoot.
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Sean Patrick Darcy,
thank you for joining us.
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Thank you so much for having me,
and hopefully everybody out there
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can get their Kahooting going.
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Thanks for joining us on Inside Learning.
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Inside Learning is brought to you by the
Learnovate Center in Trinity College.
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00:22:32,122 --> 00:22:36,232
Dublin Learnovate is funded by
Enterprise Ireland and IDA Ireland.
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Visit learnovate center.org to find out
more about our research on the science
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of learning and the future of work.
