Your Presence Is Enough: Building Peer Support Programs That Don't Burn Out the Helpers with Sarah Buino

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Howdy there. Dr.
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Sally here.
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This is Headspace for the Workplace. And I know many
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organizations right now are really at the beginning of their
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journey and thinking about, hmm, is a peer support program
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right for us? Whether you're, again, an organization that's an
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employer or a union or a professional association, there's a
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lot of talk right now on the power of peer support.
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And look, I have seen peer support programs stand up
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and it is amazing what our peer supporters are able
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to do. But I got a cautionary tale. Peer support
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programs often have a honeymoon stage where it just is
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so wonderful. People who are doing the peer support work
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are making meaning out of difficult times in their life.
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And people who are receiving that peer support feel so
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honored to connect in that way with another human being
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who's got that shared lived experience. People are excited to help.
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Employees have finally have someone that they can trust. Leaders
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see these meaningful conversations that are happening that might not
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have happened otherwise.
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But helping carries emotional weight. We actually have a term
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for it, emotional labor.
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And without clear boundaries and supervision and pathways for worrisome situations,
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the most compassionate people in an organization will become easily overwhelmed.
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So today I speak with.
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Sarah Brino and we are talking about the guardrails, the
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guardrails that need to be.
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Built before the peer support vehicle starts rolling down the highway.
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Guardrails around this so that helpers can care deeply without
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carrying everything.
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Come, take a listen.
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Hey friends, Dr.
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Sally here, and this is Headspace for the Workplace.
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It's a podcast to.
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Help you cultivate a vibrant and psychologically healthy and safe workplace.
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And each episode, we are joined by really incredible thought
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leaders like my guest today, Sarah Bueno, to help you
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up your game and make your workplace vibrant. So Sarah,
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what are the two things that people can expect to
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take away today from our conversation on peer support?
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We are going to talk about how to define the
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role before the crisis. And the second one is support
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the supporters.
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Yes, excellent.
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I have seen so many efforts for peer support, especially
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in some of the union partners that I have stand
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up without a lot of forethought. on what it's going
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to take for the peer supporters to do this well
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in a sustainable way. So that is the problem we
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are solving today. And I couldn't have found a better
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partner to have this conversation with. Sarah Bueno and I
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met really briefly, actually, at the end of a conference
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day in Washington, D.C.
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For therapists.
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And just love the work you're doing, Sarah, in the
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area of Wounded Healer, which I see this as another
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pathway to discussing.
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So welcome to the show.
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Thank you so much for having me.
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So tell our audience a little bit more.
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About kind of the work that you do, the way
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you serve the world, how you show up and how
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you got there.
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Yeah, I'm a psychotherapist and I actually had a group
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practice and sold it and have started supporting people who
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are running organizations. They're usually leaders. And I mean, truthfully,
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I think all therapists are leaders to some extent. And
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so most of the time I spend talking to therapists
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about how to do their own work be leaders in
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their community and in their organizations. And I actually think
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everything that I talk to therapists about probably applies to
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most leaders in general.
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Yeah.
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Awesome.
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And is there something.
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Interesting about you that people don't necessarily assume and then
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they hear it about you and then they're like, wow.
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That's really cool. I have a purple car. What shade
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of purple?
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I do.
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I call it Prince Purple.
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Prince Purple. I think we can all identify what that
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color is.
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Yes.
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Everybody knows what that looks like.
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Yes.
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It's a Subaru Forester, purple car. My favorite thing about
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it is watching little girls' eyes light up when I
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drive by.
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My eyes lighten up right now. I have a lot
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of jelly right now. I don't, I've never had a
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purple car and purple is my favorite color.
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You should do it. I need to do it. Yeah.
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All right. Well, let's talk about this problem that we're
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trying to solve here, which is about the importance, not,
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that's not the problem.
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The importance of peer support at work.
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A lot of organizations are starting to lean into that
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because they know we can't send everybody to a licensed
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professional mental health provider.
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There's just not enough of them and nor is it
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always appropriate.
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That's not always the pathway that people can need to
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take just to get through some life challenges. And often
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peer support is what makes magic happen in a very
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short period of time. So it's a great gap filling
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thing for a lot of organizations, whether it's a company,
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a union, a professional association, whatever.
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But there are some.
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Thinking that needs to go through into making that successful.
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And the problem that we're trying to solve today is
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peer supporter burnout, peer supporter wounding from secondary trauma and
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all kinds of things. And what I'm seeing is that
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initially the people who volunteer, who raise their hand, say,
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I want to serve in this way. I love my community.
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I have some lived experience. I'm a pretty good listener.
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I want to serve.
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Are often people in long-term recovery, are veterans, people who've
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been doing their work for a long time. they come
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in and there's this honeymoon phase where I am making
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meaning out of my difficulty and everything feels so good
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to everybody involved. And then I'd say six months, eight months,
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12 months, there's a different story that's being told.
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So talk to me a little bit about.
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Kind of this honeymoon period as you've seen it as
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people come into this work of being healer and this
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idea of the emotional labor that happens when people really
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start to get involved with it and that's a labor
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aspect that we don't always think of, like lifting heavy
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boxes and so forth.
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So talk to me a little bit about those ideas. Yeah.
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I'm thinking a lot about my experience working with addiction
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and seeing people get into recovery and often they're one
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month into recovery.
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And they say, I'm going to become a recovery coach.
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And Just exactly what you're describing, right? Like they go
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into it and they just want to help people. And
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I love that energy. I love that energy so much.
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And we really, really do need to have our own
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support systems in place. Put your oxygen mask on before
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you're helping others. And if we're talking about workplace systems,
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there really has to be definition around what this role
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actually is and what it isn't. And maybe part of
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that is, giving little triage decision trees to the peer
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supporters so that they can sort of quickly ascertain, is
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this something that's within my purview or is this something
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that really needs to be escalated to the EAP or
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to a licensed mental health professional outside of the organization?
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I think adequate training, making sure these people not just
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are understanding what's the decision tree, but also what is
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their internal relationship with helping Because I think sometimes it's
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a systems issue where there's too much being given to them.
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But a lot of times I'm seeing it's really an
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internal relationship with the pressure they put on themselves, not
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just to help, but to save and to fix things
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that are not theirs to fix. And so those are
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really two places I would start to intervene.
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All right.
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Well, we are already diving into our first tactical takeaway
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to find the role before the crisis. You don't want
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to be figuring this stuff out when it's, you know,
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six o'clock on a Friday and somebody comes stumbling around
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to say, oh my gosh, I don't want to be
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here anymore. I don't want to live anymore. And you've
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got a peer supporter who's like, what am I supposed
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to do? So defining those guardrails, labeling them, clarity on
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the role, decision-making triage, flow charts, and like people know
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what's going to happen before they get there. What other
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ways would we define the role before the crisis?
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I think really again, it's mostly what is your relationship
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with helping? Do you think that you need to be
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solving problems for other people or are you recognizing that
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you are just a friendly ear? There's a big difference.
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Being mental health professionals, you and I were trained for
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years and years to know how to sit with people
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in their depth and darkness. If you are just someone
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who wants to help, there is a difference between oh,
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tell me about your burnout than it is like, tell
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me about your suicidal ideation or how someone ended their
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own life in your family or something like that, right?
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And so again, where do those folks go to get
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support to? I think that's also part of the definition.
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I know that's takeaway number two, but it's also part
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of number one. Who are they going to for either
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supervision or or support to be able to ask like,
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what actually do I do in these circumstances? Because even
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if we give a really great decision tree or, you know,
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triage system, there are gonna.
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Be things that show up that people feel unprepared for.
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And so where do they go when they need that
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extra help?
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So really defining... this is the role of the peer supporter.
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This is the role of when it is more therapy
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and you've got to stay out of the therapy zone.
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And if you feel yourself being pulled into the therapy zone,
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maybe that's your little internal cue. This is beyond my
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skillset and my playground right now.
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I can't be doing this work.
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And to notice for yourself, when am I trying to
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fix something that I can't fix? And that's usually fairly
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subtle for a lot of people. So I know that's
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a larger challenge, but Maybe in the training, that's something
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that's talked about and giving people a chance to experience
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different scenarios and maybe role play around when might you
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feel like you're doing your, in the therapy room, we
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say working harder than.
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The client, right?
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So that might be some, we could translate that in
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some way for the peer supporters too.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And I work a lot in construction. They are problem
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solving people. They are so good at solving like super daunting, stressful.
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Problems very quickly. They're sharp and they are tactical.
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And so they just want to jump in and fix
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and they just, and then they get frustrated by round
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two when people have not taken their advice and then they.
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Throw their hands up like, oh, this person's a lost cause.
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So, you know, really understanding that.
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And I think the other piece that I'm hearing more
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and more for the people that are stepping into the
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peer support role is it's essential.
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It's not just a good idea.
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It's essential to have clear boundaries on your time. on
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like when you can and what you're not doing, like
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you're not answering the phone at three o'clock in the morning,
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you know, and, and say on the front end, when
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somebody comes to you for support, say, I need to
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be realistic with you right now. I have 15 minutes
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that I can give you my full attention and I'm
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fully here for those 15 minutes. But then after that,
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you know, I had this, you know, emergency room nurse
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with me yesterday. He's like, Sally, I can't spend a
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half an hour listening to someone's problems. I will just
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be sitting there in resentment because I've got people coming
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in the door, you know?
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So it's okay.
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It's okay to say, I can't do this now, but
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I can do it at four. It's okay to say
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I've got 15 minutes. And if at 15 minutes, we're
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not feeling like you're in a good spot, I've got
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some ideas.
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Like all of that.
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Boundary setting is essential if you're going to be doing
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this at work.
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Yeah.
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Any other role clarity pieces that would help?
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I think that's all I got. Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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All right, let's go to number two.
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And again, this idea of emotional labor kind of sneaking
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up on some folks.
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And what does it look like to support the supporters?
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I think we forget, right? And we can talk about
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this as mental health professionals that whoever's in the supporting role,
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we think that they have all of their stuff together
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and they know the things that we need to do, right?
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They have the triage, but they actually need help because
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there is an accumulation of carrying the weight of, of
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hearing somebody's problems so much. And so I don't know
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whether this looks like, I mean, obviously we'd have to
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think about what confidentiality looks like, but I would love
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to see some group support in a way for peer supporters.
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And maybe, I don't know, it's different companies, but again,
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with some sort of mental health professional or at least
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like mental health aid worker who can be a supportive
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supervisor in sort of that position. And, being able to
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hear stories from other peer supports, I think actually can
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normalize and help people feel less burdened by the emotional
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labor that they're carrying.
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Yeah. I, when I'm helping organizations set up their formal
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peer support programs, I'm like a foundational thing that you
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need to figure out before you launch anything.
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Is who's going to provide that supervision.
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And my recommendation is always contract with an external person.
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This is their jam. They love to do it. They
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have no agenda. They have objectivity.
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They have protection on confidentiality for the peer supporters. And
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contract with them in a way that there's like regular
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check-in meetings. Again, it doesn't have to be super often because... Initially,
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there's very few contacts that come in the door. So
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it can be partly continuing education, partly check-in, but some
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kind of regular meeting. Maybe it's once a month, maybe
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it's once a week, maybe it's once every other week,
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who knows. But then also an hourly rate for the,
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I just want to make sure I got it right calls. Now,
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if there's a 24-hour period where the person can't get
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back to you and you're not feeling good about that
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24-hour period, then that's an indication to get 988 involved
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or some kind of more immediate feedback on did I
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dot my I's.
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And cross my T's.
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So that's just some like logistical support for the supporters
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and how you set it up. Any other thoughts you
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have on either when that might be really important and how.
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Best to do it?
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I think started off at the beginning.
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Absolutely.
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Start the trend immediately. And even if there aren't a
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lot of cases that are happening in the beginning, then
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you can use that time maybe for education, as you said,
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like maybe there's a topic that we bring in every
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once in a while, like we'll talk about addiction this month,
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or we'll talk about anxiety next month. We'll talk about
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traumatic stress another month so that people have, they can
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keep sort of filling their tool bag with ways that
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they can approach their peers.
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And see themselves as a community.
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And have that kind of group cohesion where they can
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also turn to each other and say, I just need
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to exhale and be able to do that feeling like
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they're protecting the person they're helping's confidentiality, but they're also
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getting some support for a difficult conversation or something that
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they're holding on to.
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Right.
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Maybe more so than they should.
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All right.
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Great, Sarah.
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I'm going to go back and do a quick recap
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and then I got to come back to you for
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your final thoughts. So I'm here with Sarah Buino, who
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is like the nation's leading expert on the wounded healer conversation.
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For all of us, whether you are a, you know.
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Doctorate level licensed person, or you're just getting into this
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for the first time as a peer supporter. Everybody, everybody
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needs this conversation about what it means like to be
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a a wounded healer, and how to take care of
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yourself and put some proactive guardrails in place. And we
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talked about having role clarity and boundary clarity, but also
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acknowledgement that even when we're doing that well, we have
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emotional labor that's gonna show up in our bodies and
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how we are with one another. And we need pathways
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for support that's baked into the work, not where people
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are searching for it when it becomes a crisis, but
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it's baked into how we're doing this work. Sarah, what's
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one thing you want to make sure that people walk
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away with from our conversation today?
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When we're talking about peer support, sometimes just being there
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with other people is enough. So if you're pressuring yourself
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to solve unsolvable problems or to do something that's not
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really within your power to do, just remember that your
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presence is enough.
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Your presence is enough. Yes. And that is really the
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beauty of what peer support brings.
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Sarah, thank you so much for walking alongside me today
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and also for all the work that you're doing in
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the world. There's a reason why your podcast and your
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articles get so many engagements.
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You are an incredible human, and I really hope we
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get to do more together.
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Me too.
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And I will be there in March, so hopefully I'll
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see you there too. Yes.
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Yay.
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So if people want to know more about you, get
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more into your writing and into your podcast, into all
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the things you're doing, what's the best way for them
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to get in touch with you?
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My website, www.headheartbiztherapy.com.
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Boom.
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Easy peasy.
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And then all the socials also say that. So go
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find her, Google. You will want to dig in more.
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Thank you again.
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Thank you to our team behind the scenes, Elias and
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Chase and Stacey. And of course, Dave, our sound engineer,
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who's helping us make Sounds so wonderful in your ears.
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In closing, working minds work well together. There's lots we
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can learn from each other to improve the well-being of
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our workplace. Until we meet again, take care.