Reproductive Coercion A Hidden Form of Abuse Guest, Lynn Stroud

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You're listening to WGSN-DB, Going Solo Network, singles talk radio channel,
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where we take a lighthearted and candid approach to discussions
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on the journey of relationship loss, divorce, parenting, being single,
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relationships building, dating, and yes, sex. Join our listeners and
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begin living your best life.
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Hello, and welcome to Undoing We on New Streaming Network,
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going solo media, WGSNDB Radio. I'm your host, Marty Winder.
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I'm a strategic divorce consultant and high conflict divorce coach.
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And in a past life, not that far past, I
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used to work with a domestic violence shelter as a
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domestic violence client advocate. And today I am going to
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share with you an interview I did with Lynn Stroud.
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She is an advocate for people, women, who are facing
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a very unique type of abuse that occurs more often
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than we would like to think it happens in relationships.
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So I'm going to give you a little heads up.
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If you have children of any age in the room,
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this may not be appropriate content for them to listen to.
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We are going to talk about reproductive coercion, which is
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a form of abuse that is often used by one
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partner to control or manipulate the other partner into either
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having children or not having children. We're going to talk
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about the different reasons that that can occur and the
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different ways that that can play out in a relationship.
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And Lynn not only works in this area, but she
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has actually experienced it in her life along with physical
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violence in a relationship. And Lynn is going to be
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very open about talking about this. So again, if you
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have little ones in the room, you might want to
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just pause this right now and find a quiet space,
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put some earphones in or whatever you want to do.
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to keep this away from little ears. So I'm going
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to just let us watch the clip that I did
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with Lynn. And then at the end, we're going to
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cover a few of the key topics I think that
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she addresses.
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So reproductive coercion was something that I experienced in a
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When it first happened to me, it first happened so
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long ago that I don't even think reproductive coercion was
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even a recognized term at the time. It was probably
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the early 2000s when I experienced it. And I think
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that if someone would have came to me at the
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time and said the words reproductive coercion, I wouldn't have
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even understood. And I wouldn't have recognized that what was
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happening to me or what had happened to me was,
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was even a crime or was, you know, ethically and
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morally so corrupt. You know, I think the way that
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the person who the, sorry, I think the way that
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the perpetrator treated it was as such a mistake on
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his part, you know, like just that it was sort
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of like a last minute, you know, lapse in judgment
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or something like that. And I think that we're not
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seeing enough portrayals in media and we don't have enough
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people talking about how reproductive coercion and sexual coercion are
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so insidious and how so many perpetrators are still continuing
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to get away with it. And not only that, but
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also reproductive coercion is not necessarily a crime in the
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sense that there are a handful of states in the
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United States that treat it as sort of a civil offense,
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meaning that if, you know, you would have to take
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someone to court and sue them, you know, under the
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civil law and try to get, you know, some kind
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of compensatory damages or something like that. But I don't
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believe in any state that is reproductive coercion actually a
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punishable criminal offense. And that to me is shocking.
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And it is as well for me. On the other hand,
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I worked as a domestic violence client advocate for many years.
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And Sometimes you can have very clear signs of domestic violence.
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You can have bruises. You can have multiple trips to
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the hospital. You can have broken bones. You can have
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neighbors saying they saw this kind of stuff. And you
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can't even get those things prosecuted criminally in some areas. So,
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you know, and unfortunately for the victims, this reproductive coercion
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typically happens when there's no witnesses and nobody's aware that
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it's happening. Just so everybody's really clear, Lynn, what would
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you consider sort of a good overall definition of what
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reproductive coercion might be? And even if that means giving
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some examples, that might be helpful for people to understand.
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Sure, absolutely. So reproductive coercion on a high level refers
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to any behaviors used to maintain power and control over
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a partner or and their reproductive autonomy. And it essentially
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strips away the person's right to decide if, when, and
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how they become pregnant. And so some common examples of
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how that might happen is birth control sabotage. So if
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someone intentionally hides or destroys birth control pills, uh, tampers with,
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you know, a birth control patch or a ring, um,
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you know, poking holes in condoms, um, and also something
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like the removal of a condom, uh, in the middle
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of a sexual act without the other person's knowledge. And
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there's actually a term for that. It's called stealthing. Um,
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and so another example would be contraceptive denial. So, um,
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And that also factors kind of into a financial abuse
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type of thing as well. So if you, you know,
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force your partner to not use birth control, or if
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you refuse to let them use birth control, even after
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you've previously agreed to it, you know, let's say, you know,
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you've got one person in the house who's the breadwinner
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and the other person can't afford to get the medication
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by themselves. If you prohibit them from getting that medication
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that they want, that's a form of reproductive coercion. Also
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pregnancy pressure. So if you verbally manipulate someone, if you
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guilt them, if you threaten them into getting pregnant or
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forcing them to terminate a pregnancy, all of those things
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can be reproductive coercion.
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Right. And I think that, you know, there's a difference
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between people having a, a, difference of opinion of whether
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they should have a baby now, have a baby later, whatever.
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This isn't that. This is when somebody, like you said
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way back at the beginning, the whole idea of coercion
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is using threats and control in some form, whether it's financial, emotional,
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physical abuse, any of those kinds of abuse to force
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another person to do something they don't want to do.
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And I appreciate that you said not only Is it
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forcing a woman potentially to get pregnant against her will?
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But it can also be a woman who has conceived
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then forcing an abortion or termination of that pregnancy, whether
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it's through a medical means or whether it's through, unfortunately,
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we know that sometimes people engage in physical abuse and
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hitting a woman is to cause a miscarriage and things
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like that. So there's some really horrific types of abuse
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that goes on. And like we've talked about, it's not
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something that's easy to prove. And it's not something that
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even if you could potentially prove it, the legal system
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is necessarily going to be on your side to do
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anything about it.
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Right. That's absolutely true. And I think that's the way
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it happened to me when I was so young. I
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was 20 years old. the first time that I experienced
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reproductive coercion and I was in a relationship with, with
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an older man. And, you know, I think when it
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first happened, you know, the way it happened to me
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specifically was that we agreed to use the pullout method.
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Certainly not the most tried and true method, but that's
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what we agreed upon. And then at the last moment,
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he did not pull out. Um, and the way that
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he went about it, you know, afterwards was just to say, oh,
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I'm so sorry. I forgot I was drunk. It was
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just very, you know, um, quick and, and, and meaningless,
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like a nothing apology. And when I did find out
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that I was pregnant a couple of weeks later, um,
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his response again was just kind of very curt. And
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he just said, well, I guess let's, let's just get married.
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There was like no emotional, like he, you know, he
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treated in sort of this, like this sociopathic sort of way.
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And so... I think many people at the time, you know,
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that I described the situation to said, well, it was
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just an accident and he was drinking and, you know,
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there were so many excuses made on his part.
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And, and this is what, you know, this is that
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whole idea of trapping a partner with a child is, is...
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is a technique that's used by abusers. And now the
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child becomes another way that they can manipulate you because
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you're being a bad mom. You're breaking up the family
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if you want to leave. So there's a real, whether
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they're conscious of it or not, there's a game plan
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that these abusers are playing by when they're doing this.
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Absolutely. Absolutely. And one of the things that I'm trying
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to do in the long run is, And, you know,
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I'm starting here in Texas where I live, and then
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I'd like to expand everywhere else, is that I'd like
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to see reproductive coercion actually, you know, made a statute.
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You know, I'd like to see it maybe as added
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sort of to current coercion laws or domestic violence laws
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or even sexual assault laws, because really reproductive coercion is fine.
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sexual assault.
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Right. Right. And, and, you know, and again, I'm, I'm
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also in Texas. And the thing that, the thing that I,
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I find is stressful is, and it's not just Texas.
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I mean, let's face it in any court system, there
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is a lack of understanding of what is, what people
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who are in these toxic relationships, whether it, whatever the
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kind of abuses that's going on is like, well, just
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get over it. You know, um, I've heard, and this
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is horrific. I mean, this is 2026. I still get
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clients who come to me and say, well, my attorney
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says it couldn't have been that bad or I would
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have got out of it years ago. Despite how much
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we've moved forward, we haven't really moved forward that much
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in these areas. So Lynn, why do you think this
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is something that just doesn't get talked about? As a
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domestic violence client advocate, I would hear my client say,
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my husband or my partner rapes me on a regular basis.
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And unfortunately, that would not be recognized. And their attorneys
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would even say, look, we're not even going to bring
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this up because it's not going to go anywhere in court.
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And it's just liable to set the judge off with
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that kind of inflammatory language. what can we do? Like
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what needs to happen from your perspective?
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So I think there's so many, there are so many
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things that influence the issue here. And, you know, we
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can talk about the fact that, you know, marital rape
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has been a crime, you know, for some years now,
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but unfortunately, you know, still happens to so many women.
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And I think it's because this patriarchal way of that
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we have almost set women up in society to, um,
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to continue to be abused. It always seems like there
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is some sort of loophole for an abuser, you know,
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if it's not in the law, then it becomes a,
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he said, she said issue, you know, um, it, it
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becomes sort of, Oh, that was just a marital disagreement. Um,
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you know, and I think the problem that's happening with
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so many, um, lawyers now, specifically family lawyers, is the
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same issue that's happening with police officers, is that they're
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seeing so much of it, they're becoming desensitized to it.
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And they don't see the danger that's right in front
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of them. They don't want to deal with the paperwork.
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They want to write everything off as a marital dispute
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or an ugly divorce or this or that. And we're
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really failing to victims of abuse were failing women and
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children in that way. But I think if more people
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would try to change their way of thinking, if they
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came at things from an advocacy perspective, rather than... And
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I understand lawyers have their job to do. And I
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understand that people are a little bit pigeonholed by what
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they can do. But I think the more that we
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raise these insidious ways of abuse, these narcissistic and toxic
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things that happen in relationship, and we start labeling them
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as specifically as what they are, which is abuse, it's
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going to make people change their point of view. But
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if lawyers keep telling their clients that to sweep things
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under the rug because judges are irritated and judges won't
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like it. And you'll likely lose custody of your children.
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If you bring up, you know, um, you know, allegations
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of abuse, that's not helping anyone.
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Right.
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It's, it's making things worse. The more we shove things
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under the carpet, the, the, the worse it's going to get.
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People need to talk about these things. Um, you know,
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I think one of the greatest things about, about doing
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these podcasts is that I've made so many wonderful connections
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over the years. And so the more I get to
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share my story, the more I get to learn from
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other people.
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Right. Yeah. And, and you're right. It, and it's one
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of those things where I think as, as women, as
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a group as well, it's, you know, One of the
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things I learned as a domestic violence client advocate, one
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of the best ways to get women to come to
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seek help is to have a friend or a neighbor say, hey,
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I know of this resource and normalize the fact that
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there are support networks and you can come into these
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support networks relatively anonymously and you can get support, you
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can get help. Because when women talk about issues, like
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that's how the whole Me Too movement got going, right?
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Women started talking about the secret side of what was
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going on, you know, in the movie industry and political party,
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all of this stuff. And when women start talking about
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this stuff and feel confident that they will be supported
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and validated when they speak out, then it becomes easier
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to speak out. And I know that that's one of
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the things that you really work on, right? Is how
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to help women who want to come forward and talk
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about this, whether it's privately or more publicly as you are,
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that they feel that validation and that non-judgment that people
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are gonna listen and support them through their healing journey.
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Absolutely. So I think the most important thing to tell
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someone who comes to you and tells you that they
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have been a victim of abuse is to tell them
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that you believe them. That is 100%. I think people
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are always so worried that they're going to say the
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wrong thing or they start internalizing when they hear a
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friend or a colleague come to them and say that
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they have been abused or that they're experiencing abuse. And
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I think that our brains kind of go into this
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like shock mode where we feel like we need to
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just say something, you know, and a lot of times
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we feel like we need to, um, you know, make
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it better, you know, like I'm sure it wasn't that
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bad or, you know, uh, maybe you should just go
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ahead and pray on it or, you know, pray for
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your abuser and, and, and all these terrible things. And
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you don't have to, um, have any magic words when
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someone comes to talk to you, you can tell them that,
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You're sorry that it happened to them. But most importantly,
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tell them that they are believed and that it is
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not their fault. And ask them how you can help.
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You know, ask them if you can, you know, go
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with them to go seek out help, to go, you know,
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find an advocacy office or to go with them to
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the hospital to get checked out or to go to
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the police station. Just support them in any way that
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you can.
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Yeah, I think that's really good advice because it's a
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very lonely road and it's particularly difficult. You know, people
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sometimes think that this abuse happens only in a certain
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type of relationship, you know, like it's it's the. It's
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the people that can't afford the support or it's the
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people that, you know, maybe there's an alcohol or drug
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problem in the family or, you know, we all have
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this idea of who the people are that get victimized
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in these situations. This happens from the richest families in
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the world all the way down to the poorest people.
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It doesn't matter culture, religion, race, socioeconomic status, where you live.
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It's happening all over the place. And we need to
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get it out of our heads that only certain kinds
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of people, only certain kinds of women experience these kinds
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of abuse. It can happen to any one of us.
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And it's only through whatever you want, good spirits in
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the universe, God, whatever you want to put it on,
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that we are able to not experience it or to
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move through it as a survivor to move through it.
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So I really appreciate what you're doing here, Lynn, because
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this is, like I say, not an easy conversation to
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have with most women.
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Thank you.
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Yeah, it's.
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It's interesting. I think you're so right. I think we
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do kind of put abuse sort of like into a
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vacuum or we try to say that it's only one
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type of person. But I think that if anyone would
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have saw me in high school, getting good grades, getting
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ready for college, singing in the choir, I don't think
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anyone would have picked me out as a person who
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would have gotten unintentionally pregnant and was reproductively coerced and
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was in domestically abusive relationships starting at the age of 18.
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Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I also really like your message
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that coming through these really adversarial situations really can create
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this strong passion and purpose and to ensure that other
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people don't go through the same stuff. And I know
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we're almost out of time, but I also think that
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it's really important that we start educating young women and
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young men about this. And really stop having these hangups
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about talking about this kind of stuff. We should Everybody
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should have to take a course on how to spot
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a narcissist as far as I'm concerned, or how to
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spot a toxic person or a high conflict person as
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Bill Eddy calls them. We should be training people how
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to deal with this because this is a big part
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of some of the stressors in workplaces and in personal relationships.
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Absolutely. Absolutely. I keep hearing more and more about organizations
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that will go and speak to even kids as young
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as elementary school. And they may not be talking about
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romantic relationships at that level, but they are talking to
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these young kids about consent. And they are talking about
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what a healthy relationship looks like with your friends and anti-bullying.
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And I think that's so great. And I think that
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even as early as middle school, we can start talking
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to kids about the signs of domestic violence and looking
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out for your friends. And because It's happening to teenagers.
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And even if it's not, I'd say, blatantly happening to teenagers.
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I know I didn't experience my first, I'd say, officially
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abusive relationship until I was college age. Really, the ideas
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were put in there way before that. Those ideas that
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my opinion wasn't good enough and that I needed to
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keep things quiet for everyone else's sake and that I
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needed to go along with things in order to be
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liked or to not make waves. I think all of
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that was put in my head way before I ever
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started dating.
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Yeah. And even things like now with kids so connected,
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and when I say kids, I should say young people
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and old people as well. If you're out with your friends,
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you should not be getting 10 texts from your boyfriend
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or girlfriend, where are you? Who are you with? Send
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me a picture. When are you going to be home?
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That should be a red flag. That should be an,
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I'm out of this relationship right now. There should never
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be another. That should just be, that one should be,
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alone should be enough to get people out. But you
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don't know until you've experienced it. And like you say,
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it can happen to anybody.
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Yeah.
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Lynn, we are at the end of our time here,
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and I know that this is such an important topic.
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We could probably go for a lot longer, but what
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is the one piece of advice or information that you
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think you'd really like people to keep foremost in their
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mind after this conversation?
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So, you know, I think we've already hit on this,
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but I think realizing that sexual coercion and reproductive coercion
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are happening to people that we know. They are happening,
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more than likely, someone you know has been abused in
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some way, sexually assaulted or reproductively coerced. And I think
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the more that we share the way that these things
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are happening And it's not going to be those obvious
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ways that maybe we see in movies. It's not always
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going to be that situation where a woman is walking
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down a dark hallway or a dark alley and is attacked.
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Those things do happen, and that's incredibly unfortunate. And then
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it's not always going to be the date rape kind
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of drunk situation that might happen at a frat party
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at college. There are a million different little ways that
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things can be said that power can be altered in
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a relationship. And once that power is altered, it's so,
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so hard to realize what's right in front of you.
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Like I said, this is a very serious topic and
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it is one that I think is very sobering for
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people that aren't familiar with the typical things that women,
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because I worked with a shelter that served women, so
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I'm going to speak to women now, that women coming
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into domestic violence shelters talk about. And this is very common.
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I've heard this many, many times where especially the fact
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that the woman did not want to have a child
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within the relationship, thought the spouse was using protection or
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the partner was using protection, and found out later on
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that there was some kind of manipulation of the contraceptive
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method that they were using. So I think the first
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thing to recognize is that this is an unrecognized form
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of abuse. It's not typically talked about, or if it is,
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it's kind of, under, you know, it's one of those things, well,
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we don't want to talk about this out loud. You know,
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we'll talk about this privately, but we don't want to
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talk about this out loud. And that's why I think
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having Lynn and others like her that are focused on this,
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to share this and to get the conversation going is
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really important for the woman that is stuck in this
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horrible situation that thinks that she's the only one experiencing
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this or that this isn't a form of abuse because
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it absolutely is reproductive coercion. The second thing that ties
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right in with that is that unfortunately, the legal system
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does not help much. I've had other people come and
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talk to me about this on my podcast, and I'm
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going to be sharing some of those episodes with you.
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But basically that You know, women can, and men as well,
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can be sexually assaulted. They can be raped. They can
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be forced to perform sexual acts that they are not
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willing participants in, in a relationship, in a marriage, in
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a long-term partnership, or even in a dating relationship. And
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it basically boils down to he said, she said. And
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so the legal system, unless there is some kind of
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medical evidence, tends to just say, well, we can't do
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much about this. And it's very frustrating. It's frustrating for
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both the victims of this, as well as the advocates
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who are trying to get justice for their clients. The
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third thing that I think that Lynn mentions that is
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so critical is that women, and again, I'm just speaking
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to women because that was my experience, but Women who
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have gone through this and men who have gone through
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any kind of reproductive coercion or abuse, physical, emotional, sexual
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abuse during the relationship really need to be validated. They
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don't need to be questioned. They don't need to say, oh,
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that's just, you know, part of being in a relationship.
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You just have to do what the other person wants sometimes.
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That is not part of being in a relationship. A
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relationship should be based on mutual trust and mutual understanding
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that I'm not comfortable with this. I don't want to
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proceed with that. And no is a complete sentence that
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the other partner should honor. So I want to leave
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you with this thought. I know this is a more
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sober and somber thought. topic than I discuss on a
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lot of these, but I think it is really critical
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that we recognize when a friend of ours or our
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sister or our mother or whoever it may be, our cousin, nephew,
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somebody at work comes to you and talks about this,
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that we are able to hold space for them, that
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we are able to validate the experience that they've had,
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and that we are able to direct them to some
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kind of support system. So therapy, domestic violence shelters, advocates
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within the community, and obviously resources like Lynn offers will
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be incredibly helpful for these people that are going through this.
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So I know this is a tough topic. Go out,
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do something that brings you joy, puts a smile on
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your face, and makes you feel good today because you
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deserve it.
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You're listening to WGSN-DB, Going Solo Network, Singles Talk Radio Channel,
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00:29:46.460 --> 00:29:49.640
where we take a lighthearted and candid approach to discussions
457
00:29:49.700 --> 00:29:53.960
on the journey of relationship loss, divorce, parenting, being single,
458
00:29:54.269 --> 00:29:59.049
relationships building, dating, and yes, sex. Join our listeners and
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