A Motherhood Chat Between Best Friends: Miscarriage, Going From 1 to 2 & Everything No One Prepares You For

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Welcome to Getting Grounded, the open and honest conversation
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about the transition of parenthood and everything that comes along with it.
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The joy, the chaos, the fulfillment, the challenge,
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the identity shifts, the relationship changes.
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Let's talk about it all.
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Yay. Today I have one of my very, very best
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friends since I was like, I mean, I've known you since I was a baby
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baby, but friends since we were like 10-ish. I don't know.
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Um, so I'm very excited to have
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another mom friends episode. And today we're gonna talk about
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everything from miscarriages to friendships with
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children. Um, so welcome, Pegs.
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I call her Pegs, which is no longer her last name. Uh,
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But that is a hard habit to break. Um,
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but I'm so happy to be here. So thank you. So this is great that
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you're doing this. Awesome. Happy to help. So aside from
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the little tidbits of information I just gave, tell everyone about
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you, your parenting situation,
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your life, your everything, whatever you want to inform us
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about. So give us a little introduction. My mom journey. I have a 3-and-a-half-year-old.
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Um, Sydney. So 3-and-a-half-year-old daughter, she was born in 2022.
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And then I have a just-turned-1-year-old
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on April 11th, that's Zoe. So 2
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girls, and it's the best.
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It's overwhelming. It's all the things.
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And Dana and I live far apart from one another, which is the worst
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ever, um, because now we have 2 young kids and can like never see each
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other. But, um, my— one of my pieces of advice involved
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in all is if somehow magically you can
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find yourself a best friend that had a kid 6 months before you,
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do that. Because the amount of middle
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of the night, like any— I don't even know what time of day, I would
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just send you rapid-fire texts of like, is this normal?
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What the fuck is going on? I mean, I'll never forget the very first one
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I sent you, which was I was home from the hospital for 2 days,
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and I had a blood clot that was the size of a fucking softball.
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And I picked it up out of the toilet, took a picture, a picture,
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sent it to Dana, not my doctor, and said,
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is this normal? And she was like, nope. I, I do remember
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that. I think I was like, so one, call a doctor. Number 2,
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what are you doing? Because you're clearly like, sit down, lay down,
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doing too much. It was like, do you know you have a hole
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this, this big, as big as my whole head, like inside your uterus?
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So you're doing too much. Slow down. I actually
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didn't even know that, which is crazy. Like, I had a doula and
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I remember sending it to her and being like, well, my friend put it in
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these words and nobody told me that. And she was like, I did, you probably
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just didn't hear it. I'm like, no, I would remember if someone told me I
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had a gaping wound inside of my body that was the size of a dinner
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plate. I'm pretty sure that would've landed. No, and you said so, right? It was
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like fresh in my mind 'cause it was 6 months before. But like, yeah,
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no matter, and the, I mean, Both my births were vaginal. Yours was
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vaginal. But it was also shocking to me that I was like, oh, that also
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still happens if you have a C-section, is it's literally just sense of detaching.
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So I'm like, right. And then I'm like, why would I— why did I think
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you'd be bleeding that much just from put— I'm like, I don't— we don't know
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anything about what's happening in there until it happens. And then
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you're like, I know. And you sent me— I like
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have mixed feelings about social media, but you sent me an Instagram post that like
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really, really made it land. Because up until that point, well, one, they discharge you
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from the hospital and they're like rapid-fire giving you instructions like,
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don't go up and down stairs, don't lift anything heavier than
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baby, don't do this and that. And I'm like, come again? I have a 16-pound
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dog. You're gonna go to the doctor with the baby in the car seat and
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carry the fucking car seat. It's so— going back
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to work next week and there's gonna be another appointment like next week
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and they're like, don't carry. So like
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Oh, wow. Okay, so immediately,
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right, that's how this goes. Just place the baby
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on the magic carpet. That will ride it into the doctor's office.
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That was the beginning of the contradictory advice, or like the setting you up
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for things that are just not possible, right? Yeah, exactly. So I was
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like, I'm gonna go up and down the stairs, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna
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do whatever. I was running around the hospital because I'm me.
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The hospital room the day I gave birth, I showered,
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I was cleaning stuff up. The midwives came in and they were like all praising
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me for insane birth and then doing that, no one was like,
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sit the fuck down, you're going to die.
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Like, no one, no one come in and— because moms are—
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except, you know what, I do want to reflect on
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the— like, I was so happy to,
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to be that for you because my friend Olivia, she was that for me.
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She was really only like close friend I had that had kids before me.
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Um, and Dean was like, I think even like maybe a year or
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2 years, but then she had her daughter like 2 weeks after
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me. So she was pregnant, like she was getting fresh into it again with having
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her second. And she was so there for me, like,
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you know, I would— could just text her anything crazy and she was there for
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me. And I was like, oh, that was so, like you said, invaluable that
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I was like, oh my gosh, I have to, you know, I have to pass
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it along because you just are not prepared. No, you cannot
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be prepared enough for the change that you go through and
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like becoming a— because you just, you think you get it before you have kids
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and then you're like, oh no, like there's literally absolutely nothing I could have done
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to prepare for this. You know, I look back at some of like maybe the
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expectations I had, like, oh, you know, oh yeah, you have a 1-year-old, a Konoe
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bachelorette party, like that's no big deal. Like, you know, not— no awareness.
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You just don't have the awareness of like how, how tough it is.
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And then, you know, like I, I remember even sending her a text being like,
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I apologize for quite literally anything that I ever said to
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you between when you had Dean and when I had Sydney. Like, I get it
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now. And, you know, she's like, you know what, it's totally fine. First of all,
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you were fine. But like, that's— yeah, like,
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it's like you can't get it, and then you do, and then
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you're there for the next— you're there for the next friend, you know, the next
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person that's going through it. Totally true. I did that. I felt the exact
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same way. My best friend Brittany had a baby
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like 3 or 4 months after me. And I was, I,
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not only did I like want her questions and like welcome them, I would
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constantly tell her like, please never hold back from anything you have
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to ask me. Alex did this for me and it was like the greatest thing
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ever. And I just wanted to pay it forward. But I also had the exact
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same feeling that you did about any friends that I had kids after, like,
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oh my God, I will never forget also coming to your house,
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which this was a good thing, but coming to your house, I was very pregnant.
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You had a 3-month-old and I, you were like trying to make it
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all seem so much easier than it was because you were afraid for me because
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I was going to poop too. So I was like, this is so easy
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with one. It's so easy. And I'm complaining
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about anything to you. It's like,
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oh, you guys did make it look easy. But also we went, we went
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to brunch, we met your brother, like we did all this stuff that we— I
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did any of those things, which is crazy to think about and is another
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one of the like advice things I have. Because I'm like, if someone can force
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you to get out of the house, or you can sign up for something that
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forces you, it's great. Because then you prove to yourself, you're like, wow, I can
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do this. Yeah. So I am glad that I did that
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with you. And that was helpful. But I had no— I was like, of course,
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we could just go to the restaurant. Who cares if she cries and you breastfeed
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in public? Like all these things that I'm like, I— it's fine. It'll be fine.
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I'm here. You're not alone. But really, you're like, You have no awareness
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of how all of that feels and you're juggling it.
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Okay, if she nursed at this time, then 2 hours in,
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just all that. Even Sam has said that to me,
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who's one of our joint best friends. Um, I keep saying best friends, but I
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really mean it because I love all these people so much. Um,
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but she just had a baby like a few months ago and she has referenced
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to me friends without babies and just like the things that they'll say,
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which are harmless, but just the lack of understanding of
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how that— because you can't, like you said, you cannot prepare,
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you cannot understand. It is, it is the biggest shift that
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anything and nothing will compare to. Oh,
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nope. It— no. Yeah. Um, so beyond
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that, having the best friend, which is— I know there's no way to plan
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for that, but if somehow you can, I just find a friend that has a
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kid before you. Don't be the first in your friend group to have a kid.
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The— that's the number one takeaway of this episode. Don't be the first. Yeah,
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don't be the first. Um, unless you really wanna be the martyr and just
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help people, which is also great. And I love helping people. So,
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um, but tell us, um, so you have 2
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girls like you just said. Um, tell us, one, do you
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feel like you are complete? Um, cuz I know some people do and some people
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don't like have that feeling. Like, do you guys talk about having more kids?
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Which is also a conversation that you and I would be having personally
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and haven't yet. So let's have it in front of people.
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Let's have it. Yeah. And, um, tell me about the transition from
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1 to 2. I know nothing about that life. So you just started off,
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started with a bang, hard, right out of the way. Um,
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so it's funny because I feel like we
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were always like, we'll have 2 kids and that's that,
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you know, whatever. Crazy times. Life is expensive. And then,
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you know, We had Sydney. Okay, yep, we're gonna have one more kid. We had
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Zoe, and we are only having 2. And Graham got surgery
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at the age— oh, yes, yes. Did I know that?
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No, I know. So I'm like, oh, I can share. I am actually having
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this conversation with you in front of everyone. Wow.
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Sorry for the, you know, uh, personal medical information out there
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about my husband, but HIPAA. Sorry.
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Um, but Um, I was— it was like,
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that is the right decision for us, but I'm also upset,
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you know what I mean? It's like, it's just, it's just, it's like, what,
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you know, I had Sydney and then I'm, I'm like, the— it goes by
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so fast, but I'm like, oh, I'll get this again with my second. Like,
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I'll be able to cherish the newborn snuggles one more time
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and all these things one more time. Well, one, there's no cherishing happening.
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Things— it's even crazier than before. It's like Just going past
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that lightning speed. Like, I, like, I don't know what each time I'm
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like, oh, so, so I guess every time you have a kid, you think like
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it'll, like you be prepared and you just, so I'll just never be prepared for
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anything. But, um, it's, it is just
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like each time that it ends, I'm like, oh, that's really it. You know,
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that, that is the end. And so it's like, you know, it's the
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right decision for us just because I feel like life is so expensive and there's
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certain you know, goals we want to have for each kid and for our family
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that, you know, it's like, I just,
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I want to make sure that I'm making life the best
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I can for those 2 rather than bringing in more. Fair.
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I am number 3, so I feel a little sorry to my unborn self.
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Um, but you know, it's just, it's just with,
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you know, with our ages and just life situation,
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it's like, okay, 2. You know, but if I,
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if I was, if I won the lottery, I'd be like,
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oh, let's have a third. You know, I don't know. Interesting. I know I hate,
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I've had this conversation with Michael a long time ago, which we go back and
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forth on more kids. I'm very still in this moment, very torn.
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Um, but the one time, which I was probably still very
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postpartum and emotional, not that I wouldn't be anyway, but I
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was like, I don't want finances to be what dictates this decision. Like that
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part feels so depressing about it. Yeah. It's like, it's like, oh, because everything
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sucks and the world is so expensive, we won't have the
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future family that I wanna have when I'm 60. Like that. Well, I am like,
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I am being like, I mean, anybody really, you can,
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you, you know what I mean? It's like you, you, you would make it,
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you know, it's fine. It's like I'm being like a little like, we can't afford
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it. And it's like, comparative to what? But you know what I mean? It's more
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just like, but to your point about goals and the life you wanna provide,
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like that, that I totally understand. You have to make your own sacrifices, right?
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So it's like, Just for us. I, I think, I think I'm surprised.
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I guess I should rephrase it that I was so like, definitely 2 and
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that's it. And I was surprised to feel like how
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I, to feel like, oh, only 2, you know? Yeah.
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Whereas going into it, it was like, who needs a 3rd?
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You know? Right. I think, yeah. You know, we are complete,
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like in the end, I'm, I'm like happy with the decision and
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You know, first of all, I can't imagine. I'm like, oh my God, what if
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we had a boy? I can't imagine. That's what I was just thinking. What do
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you mean a little boy? We are a girl, you know, we're girls in this
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house. Girl family. And so in that way, and that's always
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funny too, because people will, not very many, but every once in a while you'll
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get somebody being like, oh, is Graham sad about not having this
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boy? And I'm like, Graham could not be happier with his 2 girls.
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And I know it's this thing that you don't realize until after you have kids
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too, because I have a really good friend here who like, as the mom,
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they all, they both really just wanted a second girl. They had such a great,
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they have their daughter who's perfect and they want a second daughter. And I'm like,
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but a mom needs a little boy. Like you don't, like my daughter is my
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best friend. I cannot wait to be best friends with her my whole life.
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The way we look at each other, like it is the sweetest thing. And the
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bond with my, the mother-son thing is just like,
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I feel like you just hate the situation you're in so much that
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you're like, like everyone needs that, you know, because I'm like, you're sitting
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there, I'm like, no, no, no, no. You're like, no, I have perfect,
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you know, like, oh girls, I don't need it. It's funny, like we had Sydney
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and Graham was like, people were thinking like, I think they thought like, because he's,
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you know, kind of like a, a manly man, like, oh, he probably wants his
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boy. And I'm like, you have no idea, on my end he's being like,
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another girl, another girl, another girl. Like, you know,
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Graham is so manly. And then I'll obviously never forget, for my
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30th birthday I invited everyone to Mardi Gras and Graham came with like the artistically
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painted design, like as if he's a fashion designer, costumes, and we're
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like, where did this come from? Yeah, that's true.
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That actually is really true. He's definitely thrilled to like braid the girl's
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hair and make their outfits. The pigtails, the part is perfect.
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I'm like, oh, have Dad do your hair. Yeah, he's good at it. So about
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our house is not like that. So when he does Everly's hair, it's like,
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yeah, like she's ready school. Like, she's not
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ready. Oh, but then she doesn't let you redo it, so that's just how— yeah,
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that's it. Oh, well, not all— we're dealing with that too. Oh, that's it,
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that's it. Okay, um, but okay, and then transition from 1 to 2,
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um, easier than 0 to 1?
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Uh, okay. I mean, like, harder in the obvious ways of like now you have
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2 people you have to, you know, keep alive and stuff. But just,
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I think like we talked about, like nothing prepares you for being a mom that
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like going from just like having a kid and being like,
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like, oh my God, I get like, I'm so tired. Like, you know, it's like
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I knew to expect some of those things and I knew that I,
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it's like you have lived through it. So, you know, like this doesn't, this isn't
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gonna last forever, the good or the bad. So it's just like, like I don't
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remember even being like, like you'd think I'd be even more tired and I'm just
16:10.700 --> 16:13.203
like, okay, well I'm tired. Just like move through it. You know what I mean?
16:13.251 --> 16:16.636
Whereas like asking, he was like, Felt like it was never ending, never going to
16:16.781 --> 16:19.523
end. But it's like, I know now, like, no,
16:20.389 --> 16:23.612
they will sleep. You know what I mean? You'll get through it. Right. I also
16:24.112 --> 16:27.782
feel like I did have challenges with Sydney with breastfeeding at
16:28.282 --> 16:31.423
first, and she like wasn't gaining good weight. So like that was just stressful during
16:31.471 --> 16:34.887
postpartum and it kind of like ramped up some anxiety in me because
16:34.903 --> 16:37.902
my doctor's office made me like come in and get her weighed like every single
16:38.402 --> 16:41.702
day. I remember that. So, and then Zoe, it was completely
16:41.799 --> 16:45.921
opposite, but it's also like, well, was it easier because Like
16:46.002 --> 16:49.630
I knew how to breastfeed. And then you also make more— fact,
16:49.646 --> 16:53.177
you make more, um, milk ducts. Like you, you make, you produce
16:53.194 --> 16:56.694
more milk with each subsequent pregnancy. Yes. Shut the fuck up. Oh, you,
16:56.888 --> 17:00.051
um, it, uh, um, I think you actually
17:00.551 --> 17:02.987
like get, increase your, um,
17:03.520 --> 17:06.649
amount of ducts. What would happen to me?
17:08.220 --> 17:12.125
You're gonna— I made, I made milk for a fucking village of children because
17:12.158 --> 17:14.502
of 2 of them. Yeah. That'll be interesting. But I, I think it's actually just
17:15.002 --> 17:18.551
like you, You, um, like each
17:18.631 --> 17:21.939
time you get more ducts, but then it'll, it'll regulate based off of
17:21.955 --> 17:24.909
the usage, right? Like, so if you— I would show you those pictures. I would
17:24.925 --> 17:28.955
have like jars full of milk from a session of pumping. But also
17:29.455 --> 17:32.246
that was because when your milk started to come in, it was like, oh,
17:32.503 --> 17:36.309
okay, we're, we're doing this every half second. Versus if you had one kid,
17:36.806 --> 17:40.499
it would, it would regulate to, to just
17:40.515 --> 17:44.481
for that one kid. Right. But now if I had like one by
17:44.529 --> 17:47.949
itself, but my body already produced that much, like would it then?
17:48.703 --> 17:52.266
Make more. It'll be a milk factory. It would be more
17:52.394 --> 17:55.700
so than I was the last time. Whatever. I don't even know that that's happening,
17:55.764 --> 17:59.247
but that's a fascinating— Yeah. So I, you know, so I
17:59.295 --> 18:02.874
think, um, I think in many ways
18:02.986 --> 18:06.116
it's easier because you already kind of know what to expect.
18:06.501 --> 18:11.171
You've been through it. Um, and you know that like,
18:11.877 --> 18:15.663
it's, everything is gonna, you know, everything will pass. The hard parts
18:16.163 --> 18:19.252
will, will pass, you know? Yeah. In between 1 and 2,
18:20.293 --> 18:24.139
you had a miscarriage, which I would love to talk about.
18:24.379 --> 18:27.664
Um, because you were my, again, my first, you're my
18:28.164 --> 18:31.429
first friend for everything. You're my first friend that, that happened to, but then very
18:31.929 --> 18:34.665
much not my only friend. Right. Like the amount, I feel like anybody that's,
18:35.434 --> 18:38.190
anybody that try, you know, the more kids you try to have, like it's good.
18:38.238 --> 18:41.779
It's like good chances it's gonna happen, you know? Well, I remember in
18:42.279 --> 18:45.625
my appointment, um, even before I knew I had twins, like all the
18:46.125 --> 18:49.631
things I was asking, all these questions about like, why don't you tell people
18:50.131 --> 18:52.932
until the second trimester? What are the rates? Whatever. And I actually had the worst
18:52.980 --> 18:55.592
doctor's office. They wouldn't give me any information. She was telling me I was being
18:55.640 --> 18:59.309
anxious and I was like, I'm actually just information seeking here because
18:59.809 --> 19:02.450
I don't understand these things. I don't know anything about them. I've never been pregnant
19:02.950 --> 19:06.520
before. Yeah. Um, but I do remember somebody shared with me
19:07.020 --> 19:09.676
and they were like, well, it's 1 in 4 in this state,
19:10.045 --> 19:13.482
which Really a very high percent. Yeah. So,
19:14.302 --> 19:17.773
um, it happens to so many more people than I think we even know
19:18.014 --> 19:21.741
it's happening to. Um, so I just wanted to talk about that because it's far
19:21.774 --> 19:25.116
more common. Yes. Um, and just like how
19:25.228 --> 19:28.844
that experience was. And I just, I remember,
19:28.860 --> 19:32.314
'cause you, you told me the whole thing and I'm, I'm curious of so
19:32.814 --> 19:36.460
many things. Like, would you have, would you have
19:36.828 --> 19:40.177
not told as many people? Because I, you always think like,
19:40.193 --> 19:42.741
well, why, why would I not tell these people? They're the same people I would
19:43.241 --> 19:46.764
tell. But is that the case? Maybe you wouldn't have wanted to share that yet.
19:46.844 --> 19:50.289
No, I think, um, so first
19:50.789 --> 19:54.423
of all, I had, I had never, yeah, I, I had Sydney. We got pregnant
19:54.923 --> 19:57.452
relatively easily with like, you know, just kind of like tracking.
19:58.109 --> 20:01.843
And, um, and then when she was about, um,
20:01.891 --> 20:05.977
like 18 months, we were like, okay, let's, let's start trying. I got pregnant
20:06.477 --> 20:10.272
again relatively easily. And then, you know, great, so far everything's going,
20:10.464 --> 20:14.166
going good. Um, I had— my mom had had a miscarriage
20:14.711 --> 20:18.284
between my 2 brothers, so I had no— I knew that like growing
20:18.380 --> 20:21.153
up, and like, you know, she had kind of like talked to me about that.
20:21.201 --> 20:24.117
So like, at least I had like a little, a little bit of like a
20:24.165 --> 20:28.220
personal experience there with that. But, um, yeah, I, I was
20:28.720 --> 20:31.974
was about— I thought I was 8 weeks. I,
20:32.567 --> 20:35.952
um, hadn't gone in yet for my first appointment, but I had like had
20:36.452 --> 20:39.321
the positive pregnancy test. And it was like, oh,
20:39.562 --> 20:42.771
such a rough time. It was actually— I started miscarrying on Mother's Day,
20:43.172 --> 20:46.557
like Mother's Day weekend. So that was awesome.
20:47.247 --> 20:50.215
And I first just started having like a little bit of bleeding, a little bit
20:50.715 --> 20:54.530
of spotting, which you now know spotting can mean
20:54.707 --> 20:58.220
like everything and nothing. And so, you know, so I call and they're Like,
20:58.720 --> 21:01.880
you know, it could mean nothing or, you know, it could mean something. So,
21:02.380 --> 21:05.240
you know, let's have you— so it was a Saturday. Um, so they were like,
21:05.740 --> 21:08.560
let's have you come in. But the office wasn't open. So they're like, let's have
21:09.060 --> 21:11.800
you come into the hospital and do an ultrasound. So I'm like, I'm already nervous.
21:12.300 --> 21:15.660
I already feel like it's not a good sign. I was so sick
21:16.160 --> 21:19.360
with Sydney, like horrible first trimester.
21:19.860 --> 21:22.060
So I'm like, I was already kind of being like, this is weird that I'm
21:22.560 --> 21:25.140
not feeling anything. But I, I was like, when did I start feeling sick with
21:25.640 --> 21:28.040
Sydney exactly? Was it not till 9 weeks? Like, you know what I mean?
21:28.540 --> 21:31.325
So I'm kind of trying to like compare. But I'm like, all right, this is
21:31.919 --> 21:35.821
not great. Um, so my in-laws watched Sydney and me and Graham
21:35.917 --> 21:39.546
went to the hospital and I'm so nervous. And just like during the
21:40.046 --> 21:43.560
ultrasound, you just know, like the ultrasound technicians, they know
21:43.641 --> 21:46.900
they're not supposed to diagnose anything, but I could just, I'm just like staring at
21:46.916 --> 21:50.160
her face and she has the monitor turned away from me.
21:50.240 --> 21:53.275
Not that I, you know, like you ever know what the heck is on that
21:53.775 --> 21:57.193
anyway. Right. But I can just tell it's not going well. Just like
21:57.693 --> 22:01.060
the tears are just like like just streaming down my face.
22:01.560 --> 22:04.820
And she's like, you know, trying to say something, you know,
22:05.320 --> 22:08.360
she's like, maybe you're just like, maybe you're just not as far along as
22:08.860 --> 22:11.840
you think. And I'm like, that can't be because I know that, you know,
22:12.340 --> 22:14.260
you're, I've used the app. Like I know exactly what day I was ovulating.
22:14.560 --> 22:18.540
It's like, you know, but she's just trying to say anything to kind of
22:19.040 --> 22:22.300
diffuse. Right. And I'm like, oh, that can't be it. And it was just like,
22:22.400 --> 22:24.980
it's just, it's just such a horrible experience. Like, I'm now I'm like, I'm in
22:25.480 --> 22:29.004
the hospital and then The results get sent to my OB. She calls me and
22:29.504 --> 22:32.745
is, you know, confirms like, it looks like you're having a miscarriage, which, you know,
22:32.777 --> 22:35.828
I knew. And it's just like, you know, I'm just like sobbing in like the
22:37.017 --> 22:40.325
hospital, like lobby. I have to go get blood work
22:40.646 --> 22:44.243
and then nothing against the blood work technicians,
22:44.259 --> 22:47.567
but they're just like, you know, you're just sitting in this office, you're having
22:48.067 --> 22:50.120
like one of the worst days of your life and like, it's just so hard
22:50.620 --> 22:52.979
to just see people just like having a normal day. You know what I mean?
22:53.412 --> 22:56.682
They were just kind of like talking about like, I don't
22:56.698 --> 22:59.969
know, just everyday stuff or what they're gonna do this weekend. And I'm
23:00.469 --> 23:03.896
like, I am like, this is the, this is the
23:03.976 --> 23:07.663
worst, you know? Yeah. And it was like the next day's Mother's Day. So it
23:08.163 --> 23:10.613
was just like, now, you know, there's just certain things. It's like now I always
23:10.645 --> 23:14.172
just like kind of have that little blemish on like a holiday that's supposed to
23:14.672 --> 23:18.340
be celebrating me, you know? So, mm-hmm, that was just really tough
23:18.564 --> 23:21.646
and. I do think it was better that I already
23:21.695 --> 23:25.131
had Sydney. Like, I was able to like go home and get extra like cuddles
23:25.163 --> 23:28.294
and snuggles, and she didn't know what was going on, you know what I
23:28.794 --> 23:32.132
mean? So it was just like, I feel really bad for people that that's
23:32.632 --> 23:36.451
their first experience, you know, whereas I had already had a successful pregnancy.
23:37.350 --> 23:40.321
Um, but as far as like the telling people, like,
23:41.043 --> 23:45.057
yes and no. Like, there's people that like, it's like, yeah, I wouldn't
23:45.557 --> 23:47.706
care if I told— I didn't— I hadn't really told people yet because I I
23:48.206 --> 23:50.960
was just gonna wait, but in the end, I'm gonna, they're the same people that
23:51.460 --> 23:53.637
I'm gonna tell I had a miscarriage to. Right. So it's like, yeah, yeah.
23:53.717 --> 23:56.650
It doesn't matter. I think for like certain people, it doesn't matter whether you tell
23:56.698 --> 23:59.808
them like right when you get the positive pregnancy test or not,
23:59.824 --> 24:03.543
because no, for better or for worse, you, they're gonna know things about
24:03.591 --> 24:06.957
your life, your parents, your best friends, things like that. I think what is really
24:07.021 --> 24:10.820
hard is that there's certain people that you'd never tell, like, okay, like that
24:11.189 --> 24:14.571
happened to me. And then that Monday my graduate student was
24:15.071 --> 24:18.209
starting. I was supposed to have a graduate student for 12 weeks. I am now
24:18.337 --> 24:21.575
like actively having a miscarriage. I like didn't go into
24:21.623 --> 24:24.604
work that day, but I had to go in like the rest of the week
24:24.909 --> 24:28.099
cuz this person's like, I, I'm their supervisor. Like if,
24:28.195 --> 24:31.641
if they need the hours, that was like
24:32.141 --> 24:35.087
the hard, it was the worst timing. I'm like, you know, you can't wear a
24:35.587 --> 24:38.373
tampon, so you have to, oh my God. Yeah. So you have to wear a
24:38.873 --> 24:41.931
pad and it's like, I'm not gonna tell this girl that I've never met before,
24:42.283 --> 24:45.926
you know, what's going on. I told like my, my supervisor and a couple
24:46.426 --> 24:49.715
of coworkers, but then like, you know, you're just like sitting there
24:49.924 --> 24:53.119
with a, you know, doing your job. I have a patient in front
24:53.619 --> 24:55.479
of me, I have their parents in, and then you just feel, you know,
24:55.864 --> 24:59.059
big gush of blood. You know, you want to cry, but you're not gonna go,
24:59.476 --> 25:03.025
oh hey, dad of this 4-year-old, like,
25:03.089 --> 25:06.187
oh, I'm sorry, I'm actively having a miscarriage right now. It's like, you know,
25:06.203 --> 25:09.190
I mean, there's certain people that it's just like that. I think is the hardest
25:09.690 --> 25:13.680
part is that silently going through this horrible experience and
25:13.985 --> 25:17.930
have to just carry on, you know? And I, I think
25:18.331 --> 25:21.938
that if I had had a different job, like, you know, that would— that
25:22.438 --> 25:25.963
part would be easier. But I had a very high-demand job. Like, I have
25:26.463 --> 25:29.331
to go in. I had already taken off so much time with Sydney being sick
25:29.379 --> 25:32.987
from daycare a million times that I, like, I couldn't just take a, a week
25:33.487 --> 25:36.050
off to just sort of deal with that. So I'm just trying to kind of
25:36.550 --> 25:38.777
push through. And having this horrible time.
25:39.739 --> 25:42.723
And then my— I had to keep going for more blood work because my,
25:43.012 --> 25:46.445
um, my HCG levels
25:47.103 --> 25:50.440
were like still elevated. So even though I'm miscarrying, it's still
25:50.488 --> 25:53.521
showing that I'm having like that human growth hormone. Yeah.
25:53.761 --> 25:57.050
So they're like, they, they had to keep having me tested because it's like,
25:57.082 --> 26:00.259
if that doesn't go down, that could be an indicator that there's still a little
26:00.275 --> 26:03.563
bit left, that you haven't miscarried, right? So it's like they're letting me
26:04.063 --> 26:07.300
spontaneously miscarry, but if you don't miscarry everything,
26:07.717 --> 26:11.133
you'd have to go in for a DNC. Oh my God. You could,
26:11.822 --> 26:15.254
you could go septic, you know? So then I'm also thinking, well,
26:15.286 --> 26:18.590
thank God I live in Massachusetts. I can't even imagine women
26:18.622 --> 26:21.877
that have to deal with this, not to get political, but who have to deal
26:21.909 --> 26:25.614
with this and be thinking about like having
26:26.114 --> 26:30.010
to prove that this is a miscarriage. Or that
26:30.026 --> 26:33.320
like, oh, well we can't actually bring you in for the DNC unless you go
26:33.561 --> 26:36.051
into sepsis, like because they're getting so sick.
26:36.549 --> 26:39.875
So I'm like, okay, well at least thank God I have like good healthcare options
26:39.971 --> 26:43.185
here. I, that's so sad that some people have to worry about that on top
26:43.217 --> 26:46.478
of this. Mm-hmm. But it was just like, I was
26:46.978 --> 26:50.254
just getting dumped on because then Sydney got a stomach bug,
26:50.592 --> 26:54.191
so then she was throwing up and sick and then she had a fever and
26:54.691 --> 26:57.994
then I got sick, but started having a stomach bug.
26:58.219 --> 27:01.909
And then I got a really high fever, but all the while my HCG levels
27:02.409 --> 27:04.909
are still high. So then I call, I'm like, well, I have 103 fever,
27:05.198 --> 27:08.406
but I might be the stomach bug for my kid. And they're like, no,
27:08.567 --> 27:11.920
you have to go to the hospital because like, what if it's
27:12.420 --> 27:15.048
not that? So then I'm like, oh my God. So then we go to,
27:15.128 --> 27:18.449
go to the ER. I had to get another ultrasound to make sure that
27:18.949 --> 27:21.625
I pa— that I passed everything. So then at the end I'm like, oh great.
27:21.946 --> 27:25.188
Just miscarriage is going perfectly. You just have the stomach bug on top of it.
27:25.252 --> 27:30.019
And I was just like, oh my God, I cannot handle
27:30.067 --> 27:33.886
this. This is crazy. Yeah. Also like managing because
27:33.999 --> 27:38.187
you have a child at home and like be there. It's, it's impractical
27:38.687 --> 27:41.638
to think that the mom who is like, needs to be there for the child
27:42.138 --> 27:44.703
is also like in that of the hospital. Like that is,
27:45.778 --> 27:49.165
you know, like really, really. So I think the two Well, there's a lot of
27:49.665 --> 27:52.904
difficult parts of this, but the 2 that you don't realize from the
27:53.000 --> 27:56.274
outside is the going through it silently and encountering
27:56.306 --> 27:59.500
many, many people who have no idea or can't relate or whatever,
27:59.596 --> 28:03.512
and then having to go about your day. And it's like weirdly parallel.
28:03.609 --> 28:07.669
It's not the same, but it's weirdly parallel to like my brother dying
28:07.862 --> 28:10.911
and then just like existing in the world and be like wanting to tell every
28:11.411 --> 28:14.570
single person like, oh, I'm sorry, I'm not myself because my brother died,
28:14.747 --> 28:18.446
you know, like a couple days ago, you know. And so like dealing things
28:18.946 --> 28:22.038
silently is wild. Yes. I think it's just like,
28:22.586 --> 28:25.646
and I am fortunate that I have not really like had a lot of tragedy
28:26.146 --> 28:29.726
in my life that like, that this was like, I'm lucky
28:29.791 --> 28:32.840
that like losing a, you know,
28:32.856 --> 28:35.841
my pregnancy at 8 weeks is like, oh, that's one of the hard, you know,
28:35.857 --> 28:39.148
that's one of the hardest losses I've had. Right? Like, that's like, you know,
28:39.164 --> 28:42.068
I, I try to kind of, I mean, maybe that's like toxic positivity, but I
28:42.568 --> 28:43.410
try to kind of like think about it a little bit.
28:45.556 --> 28:49.477
Sure. You know, like that sucks and that's a tragic thing. And, but I,
28:49.623 --> 28:51.657
I do think that, but not lucky.
28:53.400 --> 28:56.893
Sure. I do think though that I understand that concept of like,
28:57.376 --> 29:00.677
you're going through something so hard and for everyone else it's just a normal day
29:01.160 --> 29:03.969
and like, right. I don't know, what do you expect people to do? You know?
29:04.066 --> 29:08.168
But it's just like how those 2 things can exist at the same time is
29:08.930 --> 29:12.339
painful in a way. Yeah. Can't— there's nothing you can do about it.
29:12.980 --> 29:16.828
Then another, another aspect, like, like you said, getting pregnant,
29:16.844 --> 29:20.210
you know that it's common and that, you know,
29:20.290 --> 29:23.561
there's a good chance that like you could have a miscarriage. You're gonna know somebody
29:23.577 --> 29:27.681
that's had one. But the, the pregnancy after
29:27.809 --> 29:30.742
having a miscarriage, I, I couldn't believe how,
29:31.015 --> 29:34.846
how like insane anxious I was. Like, yeah, I went right from
29:34.878 --> 29:37.879
that to like then feeling sad, like Oh, well,
29:38.633 --> 29:41.941
it feels mean to say, but like, lost time. Like now, like,
29:42.005 --> 29:44.317
you know, I wanted to have this nice age gap. Like there's all these other
29:44.430 --> 29:47.464
little things that you don't even think about that it's like that maybe even almost
29:47.964 --> 29:51.222
feel like selfish admitting, but it's actually, I found,
29:51.254 --> 29:54.626
come to find out that it's common of like, of like, oh, that like missed
29:55.126 --> 29:58.078
time. And like now there's a larger age gap that I wanted and like just
29:58.578 --> 30:00.839
kind of realizing like, oh, that's something that's now like not in my control.
30:01.530 --> 30:04.640
And then I just kind of like, we just kind of immediately
30:05.140 --> 30:09.000
tried to go right into like having another, like getting pregnant again while
30:09.500 --> 30:12.300
I was obviously still upset. But I'm just like, well, I, I, I'm gonna be
30:12.800 --> 30:15.180
more upset if more time goes by. You know what I mean? So like,
30:15.680 --> 30:19.060
kind of trying to like process, but also I'm gonna be
30:19.560 --> 30:22.860
more upset if, if like in the long run, if, if, you know,
30:23.360 --> 30:25.100
so I'm just kind of trying to fill that with like, okay, let's get pregnant
30:25.600 --> 30:28.340
again. And then stressed if I didn't, you know, there was like maybe like,
30:28.840 --> 30:32.492
I think 2 months that I didn't. And being like, that's it, I'm having
30:32.573 --> 30:36.653
fertility issues now. Like, just a spiral. And then,
30:36.926 --> 30:40.701
um, and then like getting
30:40.781 --> 30:44.299
pregnant and then being like, I'm gonna have a miscarriage again,
30:44.347 --> 30:47.930
I'm gonna have a miscarriage again. Like, I could not even relax.
30:48.010 --> 30:51.721
Like, holding my breath until I went for that first appointment and just
30:52.221 --> 30:55.335
being like, they're gonna, they're gonna do the old— I was like crying before she
30:55.835 --> 30:58.466
even, you know, put the jelly up. Like, they're gonna do the ultrasound. There's gonna
30:58.966 --> 31:02.653
be nothing there. There's gonna be nothing there. And like, she took, like, you know,
31:02.717 --> 31:05.894
okay, there's the baby. And I was just like the
31:06.394 --> 31:08.991
most hysterical. I'm like, they must see this all. She like had no reaction.
31:09.055 --> 31:12.424
She's like, okay, yeah, look. And I'm just like, was so,
31:12.440 --> 31:15.857
so, so emotional. Like, I felt like that's when I could finally take
31:15.873 --> 31:19.547
a breath. But then also reflecting on, well, what about the people that'll
31:20.047 --> 31:23.381
lose their baby at 20 weeks, 27 weeks? I was stillborn,
31:23.413 --> 31:26.458
like, I felt like, oh, I could take a breath because now I've made it
31:26.958 --> 31:30.336
past the point that I lost. But for some people, that's,
31:31.489 --> 31:35.191
that's the whole time, you know? Like, yeah, it's just so, it just
31:35.691 --> 31:38.957
kind of, I wasn't prepared for how it kind of like taints like your next
31:39.457 --> 31:42.001
experience. You know what I mean? You think, you know, oh, it's so common,
31:42.017 --> 31:44.261
so it'll happen to me. But once it happens to you, then it's like,
31:45.030 --> 31:48.283
it really took a different, a different turn there.
31:48.813 --> 31:51.800
That makes sense. Yeah. And the amount of like,
31:51.928 --> 31:55.606
I feel like it's the number one most common thing is the age gap thing
31:56.023 --> 31:59.476
because people have it, which you try to like, I've had conver—
31:59.556 --> 32:02.848
I've definitely probably said this to you. Like I've had so many conversations about that
32:03.348 --> 32:06.976
with friends. Um, because not in the position, you're like,
32:07.425 --> 32:10.990
my, I, every, I'm this like pillar example of
32:11.490 --> 32:13.753
this cuz my brother was 6 years older than me, which is never the age
32:13.769 --> 32:17.044
gap that anyone would actively choose. And we couldn't have
32:17.076 --> 32:20.222
been closer our whole lives, you know, like, of course we ebbed and flowed cuz
32:20.270 --> 32:24.267
we, when you're young, you're living like very, very different experiences
32:24.299 --> 32:27.541
with that different part. But then you get older and it doesn't make a difference.
32:27.733 --> 32:31.393
Um, and, but we, but even still, we were close the whole time.
32:31.441 --> 32:34.346
He was so protective over me. Like I would try to share that with people
32:34.846 --> 32:37.925
to be like, the age doesn't necessarily matter, but that doesn't matter. You know,
32:37.941 --> 32:41.312
like saying that to your friends, it still feels like, okay, but this is
32:41.376 --> 32:44.152
what my heart was set on. Hey, right, right. And this is what I now
32:44.779 --> 32:48.343
to your point, have no control over. And that has been
32:48.375 --> 32:51.811
the most common conversation I have had. Um, and it's
32:52.311 --> 32:54.557
all gonna work out beautifully. Your girls are gonna be so close. Like it's gonna
32:54.621 --> 32:58.362
have, you know, but during it, that doesn't matter. And it feels terrible.
32:58.635 --> 33:02.312
And it, to your point also, it feels a little trivial, but it's not,
33:02.344 --> 33:05.604
right? It's, it's the family plan and the dream that you had
33:06.021 --> 33:09.586
and everything is falling apart around you. It feels like in terms of that
33:09.714 --> 33:13.344
and And you're also like, well, now when is it gonna be? Is it gonna
33:13.844 --> 33:17.231
be in the fertility spiral? Like, I just can't. Yeah. There's so many layers.
33:17.279 --> 33:20.539
There's so many unspoken and invisible layers. And I know people
33:20.555 --> 33:23.751
are talking about it more and more, which is great. Um,
33:24.185 --> 33:26.353
but I don't know that that made your experience any easier.
33:27.799 --> 33:30.674
Yeah. Um, probably not, you know, because,
33:31.011 --> 33:34.319
well, I, I mean, like, yes and no. It's, it's like, it was nice.
33:34.384 --> 33:37.837
Like, I did have like a, a group of friend, like several friends that had
33:38.337 --> 33:40.968
been through it and like Um, you know, the things that they had like said
33:41.468 --> 33:44.550
to me or did for me was like great, but just like there is,
33:45.128 --> 33:48.420
there's no way to let everybody know. And, and I
33:48.920 --> 33:52.017
think just like going through it physically and then having to still sort
33:52.049 --> 33:55.149
of like show up, whether it's taking care of your other kid,
33:55.566 --> 33:58.794
going to work, doing whatever, and just sort of having to
33:58.955 --> 34:02.167
kind of go through that. But actually this plant,
34:02.809 --> 34:06.903
yeah, friends, a friend gave it to me. I, I'm jury's still
34:07.403 --> 34:09.546
out on whether this is actually a good idea or not because now I'm like
34:10.046 --> 34:13.552
really emotionally attached to this plant. You gave this to me like,
34:13.696 --> 34:17.318
you know, like after I had the miscarriage, and now I'm like, I can't keep
34:17.818 --> 34:21.772
any plants alive ever. Like, and but I am like, this one
34:22.109 --> 34:25.618
I have been, I have nurtured it, I've taken care of it. And like
34:25.714 --> 34:28.101
one day Sydney was even like, she was kind of like messing with the leaves
34:28.134 --> 34:31.819
and I was like, don't touch, don't, don't hurt that plant. And you
34:32.319 --> 34:35.930
know, Graham was like, okay, we're And she's like, you know, and she was like,
34:36.430 --> 34:39.150
why? Or, because she asked, she was asking why about everything. So I like started
34:39.650 --> 34:42.220
to kind of explain like, well, you know, Mommy's friend gave that to her.
34:42.450 --> 34:45.910
Like, Mommy had a baby in her belly. And I, I started trying to explain
34:46.410 --> 34:49.630
it as best I could to like, you know, a 3-year-old or 2-and-a-half-year-old and just
34:50.130 --> 34:53.610
like just started crying. It was like so much. It was like, in most
34:54.110 --> 34:56.330
ways I feel like I'm, I'm, you know, oh yeah, that happened to me and
34:56.830 --> 34:59.738
I'm recovered from it. And then I'm like trying to explain to her like what,
35:00.075 --> 35:03.655
what this plant means to me. And I just start— I'm like crying,
35:03.768 --> 35:07.846
and I'm like, wow, you know, it really does— like, the, the— you move
35:08.346 --> 35:11.475
on, but the pain of it can still kind of be— can be revisited and
35:11.975 --> 35:14.638
brought back up. And I do think— I'm like, I didn't really process it.
35:14.686 --> 35:17.785
I just went right into trying to get pregnant with Zoe, got pregnant with Zoe.
35:18.861 --> 35:21.269
Life is crazy. And, you know, it's just kind of like, you know, when I
35:21.430 --> 35:25.219
reflect back, it's like there are definitely You
35:25.719 --> 35:29.338
know, I'm like, there's just certain things that kind of still can,
35:29.355 --> 35:33.042
you can still bring you back to that raw emotion. Like I remember
35:33.542 --> 35:36.232
that the, on my app, the due date, you know, December 20th.
35:37.626 --> 35:40.656
Wow. When I get to that day, I'm just like, oh, you know, not that
35:40.672 --> 35:43.061
anyone's baby's born on their due date, but I get to that time and I'm
35:43.561 --> 35:46.011
kind of like, oh, you know, this is a reminder right around when, you know,
35:46.027 --> 35:48.175
it would've been. And, um,
35:49.409 --> 35:53.582
at that, you know, the first Like when, when that first
35:54.082 --> 35:57.098
anniversary came up, like I was pregnant with Zoe and I was thinking, oh my
35:57.598 --> 36:00.888
God, I'm not ready. So, you know, but, but at the other time it's just
36:00.952 --> 36:03.441
on the other side of it, it's just kind of like, you know, it's now
36:03.457 --> 36:06.122
I just like kind of remember it. Like I think that'll always just be like
36:06.170 --> 36:09.045
a little bit of like a special date for me, special time.
36:10.024 --> 36:13.605
Yeah. It's also the Mother's Day one is interesting
36:13.653 --> 36:16.943
because like, you know, I I think I'm a
36:17.443 --> 36:20.357
really good friend. I care about my friends so deeply. There's like so many things
36:20.454 --> 36:23.724
that I think about and care about and like that.
36:24.157 --> 36:27.283
I know that story and because we're so wrapped up in our,
36:27.523 --> 36:31.258
this period of life, like I don't think about that on
36:31.274 --> 36:34.737
Mother's Day. And of course I wish that I did. And now even hearing it
36:35.237 --> 36:39.145
in this way that we're relating to it, it is very strange
36:39.645 --> 36:43.040
because it's, it was similar. It's better now cuz it's been 10 years,
36:43.072 --> 36:46.278
but New Year's used to be the hardest one for me because everyone's lives
36:46.778 --> 36:50.015
are like starting afresh and anew. And I knew that that would never happen for
36:50.515 --> 36:54.202
my brother. So that was always the hardest for me, like also starting fresh myself.
36:54.363 --> 36:57.941
And there's, it's like similar to nobody would ever think
36:57.989 --> 37:01.823
that or have that reflection, nor would I expect people to. And so
37:01.920 --> 37:05.225
like Mother's Day is a similar occurrence. Like everyone is gonna wish you a happy
37:05.725 --> 37:09.300
Mother's Day cuz you have 2 beautiful children and you're gonna celebrate your mom's
37:09.800 --> 37:13.455
Mother's Day cuz she's a grandmother and wish your friends a happy Mother's Day.
37:13.987 --> 37:17.286
I, I, I'm asking like, how do you feel like, because the next one's
37:17.786 --> 37:21.181
not far away, like, does it, will it forever feel a little bit like you
37:21.681 --> 37:24.981
said, blemished or tainted like this? And that's so hard to think
37:25.030 --> 37:28.903
about. I think that, that,
37:29.147 --> 37:32.027
you know, like they say, like time heals all wounds. Like,
37:32.173 --> 37:34.923
I think it'll get— I don't agree, by the way. I don't think that's true.
37:36.114 --> 37:39.438
Um, I— lessened it, it changes it, but it doesn't go away.
37:40.196 --> 37:43.834
That's, I think that's kind of like, I think it'll change from being like
37:43.882 --> 37:47.359
the first one was so painful. And, but now I think it
37:47.423 --> 37:51.333
will always, it'll always be a moment for me to reflect, but it,
37:51.493 --> 37:54.602
I won't be as sad. Like, yeah, I think,
37:54.634 --> 37:57.005
and I think that's kind of how I wanna treat it. Like, you know,
37:57.053 --> 37:59.873
I don't wanna forget that experience. Um,
38:00.723 --> 38:04.328
but I don't wanna dwell on it either. And I think, I think,
38:04.809 --> 38:07.325
you know, I did, a friend also sent me a book. Um,
38:07.790 --> 38:11.077
it's called like The Worst Girl Gang Ever. And they talk
38:11.577 --> 38:14.829
about how like loss, like, you know, cuz I
38:14.909 --> 38:18.517
do tend to be like, well, I was only 8 weeks, you know, people have
38:19.017 --> 38:21.066
it worse, people could lose, you know? And they kind of talk about that in
38:21.566 --> 38:24.225
all aspects of life. I know, I know. And they were kind of talking about
38:24.725 --> 38:27.207
how, you know, you can feel,
38:28.282 --> 38:31.392
you know, you, your feelings are valid whether you lo— your loss was at 8
38:31.424 --> 38:34.551
weeks or 28 weeks or stillborn or whatever.
38:35.128 --> 38:38.845
So, and I do agree with that, but personally,
38:39.262 --> 38:42.931
I, I do know that I, I would, I would be grieved, like I
38:43.203 --> 38:45.815
would be grieving. It would be way harder for me if it was further along.
38:45.927 --> 38:48.811
I just, I just know that because, sure, that's for sure. And that's just true
38:49.311 --> 38:51.824
for me. So I am able to sort of be like, okay, you know what?
38:52.032 --> 38:55.173
I'm gonna reflect on that. But I do have 2 healthy, beautiful children.
38:55.926 --> 38:59.691
Um, and you know, I, I think it's
39:00.191 --> 39:02.880
gonna be easier for me to navigate than if me personally, if I had lost
39:03.380 --> 39:06.551
lost if I had the loss later on. I think that's kind of my approach
39:06.599 --> 39:09.164
with it is that I, I will honor, I'm going to try to keep,
39:09.180 --> 39:11.873
I'll probably be a wreck if I ever do kill this plant. I'm going to
39:12.373 --> 39:15.817
try my hardest to keep that plant alive. And, um, I think like those are
39:16.317 --> 39:18.398
kind of some of the things I can do to sort of, you know,
39:18.446 --> 39:21.845
just honor that time. But I, um, the,
39:22.133 --> 39:24.362
the sting is, is lessening.
39:25.820 --> 39:29.530
Okay. I know you're not a wackadoo. Spiritual friend
39:30.030 --> 39:32.710
as much as I am. I sent you Spirit Babies, didn't I? When this happened,
39:33.210 --> 39:36.470
I wanted to bring that up because I did, I did actually, I revisited,
39:36.970 --> 39:40.130
you sent me the book and I did read it this time, which was helpful.
39:40.630 --> 39:42.870
And I thought to myself, wow, what a little fraud you are because like you're
39:43.370 --> 39:46.290
not spiritual. But now when you're going through this, you're like, well, the spirit is
39:46.790 --> 39:50.280
still up there floating down. And like the spirit of Zoe isn't as far spiritual.
39:50.590 --> 39:53.690
Everyone is spiritual. You don't have to be super out there to
39:54.190 --> 39:57.810
call yourself a shaman to be spiritual. I was grateful for
39:58.310 --> 40:00.687
it because, and I was like, oh, when we do this episode, I'll I'm gonna
40:01.187 --> 40:03.546
tell her that. But I, um, no, I,
40:04.702 --> 40:08.236
that is like a comforting thought to be like, you know,
40:08.557 --> 40:11.962
oh, it just wasn't, the spirit is still there. It just wasn't the right time.
40:12.026 --> 40:15.624
And they, it'll rejoin. Yeah. So that was going to be my
40:16.124 --> 40:19.880
question. I wasn't sure if you had read it or like all of my remembered
40:19.960 --> 40:22.530
all of those sections, cause now it's been a while since I have, but I'm
40:22.546 --> 40:25.839
curious, like, do you, if you did have that connection, do you
40:26.339 --> 40:31.027
feel like it was same Zoe, same soul that was just
40:31.527 --> 40:31.986
just not ready? Do you think it was a different one? Do you have any—
40:32.740 --> 40:35.786
I don't know, my— I kind of go back and forth between like having that
40:36.286 --> 40:38.833
thought because then if I get too— I also get weird that if I get
40:39.333 --> 40:41.030
too sad about like, oh, that, that happened to me, then I'm like, well,
40:42.041 --> 40:45.248
well, then I wouldn't have Zoe, you know? Like that. Like sometimes with me and
40:45.748 --> 40:48.696
Graham have talked about that, but then I'm like, well, maybe it's just was always
40:49.196 --> 40:52.079
Zoe, you know? It was always meant to be Zoe, right? So I sometimes have
40:52.579 --> 40:55.752
that, or sometimes I go, I think like, oh, you know, I do think like,
40:56.233 --> 40:58.781
what if that was, what if that was a boy? You know? Mm-hmm.
40:59.823 --> 41:02.981
That, but that's when I'm feeling more like sad about
41:03.481 --> 41:07.037
it. Yeah. I'll be like wallowing, so to speak. Yeah.
41:07.213 --> 41:10.147
Which there's space for it all. It's all good. It's all healthy. Yes. Yes.
41:10.259 --> 41:14.010
So I don't know. It depends on my headspace
41:14.510 --> 41:17.537
on that, but yeah. I like, and then we'll never know the answers. No.
41:17.953 --> 41:21.192
But I, I like thinking it was Zoe all along because that
41:21.692 --> 41:25.117
can feel like like I can feel more optimistic about it and, um,
41:25.806 --> 41:28.674
and then not feel guilty that like, oh, I wish I had that baby.
41:29.331 --> 41:32.231
And then, you know, so, right.
41:32.455 --> 41:35.788
Yeah, we'll go with that one. Okay. It's, I mean, I believe
41:36.124 --> 41:39.184
that it had to be Zoe, but I do that same thing. Like we've,
41:39.264 --> 41:42.469
we've had moments and periods of a lot of
41:42.969 --> 41:46.074
like hard parts of our lives and we're, I'm like, well, if we didn't go
41:46.574 --> 41:49.566
through that, we wouldn't have Winston. And if we didn't do this thing,
41:49.662 --> 41:53.222
then we wouldn't have the twins. And there's just Like, so, because that's true,
41:53.366 --> 41:56.624
right? Like, it's like the butterfly effect. Like, little changes would change
41:56.656 --> 42:00.813
things regardless. Um, and so that always does, makes everything a little more palatable
42:01.313 --> 42:05.291
cuz I think it's real. So, but one last question I want to reflect on
42:05.307 --> 42:08.533
here is, um, what about for your marriage
42:08.613 --> 42:12.337
and your partner in that? Because I just feel like twofold,
42:12.353 --> 42:15.113
like this is a conversation I should probably also have with Graham. Like,
42:15.916 --> 42:19.703
I think it's
42:20.203 --> 42:23.501
just men have no idea and no way to understand the things that we've gone
42:23.533 --> 42:26.980
through and the ways to relate to them. And the—
42:28.263 --> 42:31.550
there's just so many things that no matter how many words you say,
42:32.351 --> 42:35.750
they can never understand it. And on the opposite side of that,
42:36.761 --> 42:40.336
I think they internalize and have their own experiences
42:40.448 --> 42:43.735
so differently that then get dismissed because they're not the
42:43.799 --> 42:47.230
one going through this really difficult part. And then In,
42:47.567 --> 42:50.775
I think, uh, you know, most really great husbands then just wanna step up
42:51.275 --> 42:55.203
for their wives and therefore that like kind of makes
42:55.703 --> 42:59.582
them not process this situation. So are there, how was
42:59.614 --> 43:03.383
it for you two? And are there like things you could, things that Graham
43:03.883 --> 43:05.918
did well or that you were like, hey, it would've been better if he did
43:06.030 --> 43:09.367
this that you could pass on? Or, you know, what about that aspect of it?
43:09.880 --> 43:13.906
I do feel like it's way harder for them like
43:13.970 --> 43:16.937
to It, hmm,
43:17.418 --> 43:20.962
like even with when I, my healthy, good pregnancy with
43:21.462 --> 43:25.036
Sydney, like I kind of always say like I became a mother when I started
43:25.536 --> 43:28.692
to feel pregnant, like sick. Like, okay, my, I'm already,
43:29.061 --> 43:32.846
my body's already prepping. I'm going through the sacrifices. Like I
43:32.894 --> 43:36.149
feel the kicks, I feel, you know, the aches, the pains,
43:36.181 --> 43:40.768
like myself getting bigger. Like that's when my motherhood started and
43:41.590 --> 43:44.878
gramps' fatherhood started when it's like, holy shit,
43:45.106 --> 43:48.094
I have a baby in my hands here. You know what I mean? I,
43:48.143 --> 43:51.481
I think that they— that whole process is like
43:51.981 --> 43:55.738
they're there for you, their wife, like their partner, but they're not like
43:55.883 --> 43:59.779
thinking of themselves as a father yet. At least in my experience,
43:59.843 --> 44:03.464
right? Like it's, it's just that it doesn't hit them quite the same,
44:03.723 --> 44:06.402
right? And so I think the same for the miscarriage. Like,
44:07.285 --> 44:10.819
you know, Grandma's obviously sad, but he was more like
44:11.702 --> 44:14.722
hurting for— like, it was upsetting him to see me hurting,
44:14.995 --> 44:18.143
right? I think I was more attached to the idea of like,
44:18.159 --> 44:21.211
oh, I'm pregnant again, and like, we're gonna have this baby. Um,
44:21.580 --> 44:24.857
and there, for him, there was like— I didn't even look pregnant. Like,
44:24.937 --> 44:28.487
there's no physical symptoms that he can even, like,
44:28.647 --> 44:31.554
attach to. So I think it was more like trying to be there for me
44:31.699 --> 44:35.478
and hurting to see me hurting, um, rather than
44:35.978 --> 44:39.262
like, you know, like for him, like he's not like December 20th
44:39.359 --> 44:42.287
could have come and got, come and gone and like that wouldn't have like stuck
44:42.787 --> 44:45.590
out to him. You know what I mean? Interesting. So I, I feel like it's
44:46.090 --> 44:49.152
more like he was there for me, but not
44:49.652 --> 44:53.188
as connected to like the baby,
44:53.318 --> 44:55.133
so to speak. Interesting.
44:56.366 --> 44:59.090
Yeah. I don't really even think I'm like,
45:00.036 --> 45:03.035
I don't blame him because I just think it's too, it's too,
45:03.869 --> 45:07.140
they are just too disconnected. They're just too removed at that point. You know what
45:07.172 --> 45:10.764
I mean? That, yeah. I think the best thing he could do for
45:11.264 --> 45:13.281
me was like, just try to be there for me,
45:14.452 --> 45:17.787
you know, help out with Sydney, that kind of stuff. Yeah.
45:18.172 --> 45:21.507
Did he have the same attachment to the age gap, do you think? If he
45:22.007 --> 45:24.714
did, he, he, I, I think he was trying to do a lot, like,
45:24.730 --> 45:27.796
cuz I was just, oh my God, and then this, and what if we don't—
45:27.941 --> 45:31.409
if he did have any of those worries, like, yeah, he shoved them, them deep
45:31.909 --> 45:34.171
down, you know what I mean? And I think that's part of the problem is
45:34.203 --> 45:37.061
that, like, I, I process very outwardly.
45:37.494 --> 45:40.401
So in his mind of like, okay, I need to be there for her,
45:40.706 --> 45:44.126
it's like he needs to be saying things like, no, that's not a
45:44.142 --> 45:47.658
big deal, like, that's, that's okay, like, you know, no, you know
45:48.158 --> 45:50.500
what I mean? So it's like he's trying to put on the strong front of
45:51.000 --> 45:54.915
like Like, I don't wanna, like, I wanna try to make her feel better about
45:55.415 --> 45:58.190
this. Not be like, yeah, I'm really bummed about that too. Mm-hmm.
45:58.768 --> 46:01.786
Me, crazy me not being like, how are you doing with all this? You know
46:02.286 --> 46:05.992
what I mean? No, that's not your responsibility. But I'm, I'm interested also
46:06.492 --> 46:10.471
because in life, Michael and I have that similar situation
46:10.971 --> 46:14.356
where like, I will, there'll be things that I'm, are on my mind about
46:14.856 --> 46:18.801
the kids or life or future or whatever. And he often provides
46:18.833 --> 46:22.182
that response, but sometimes it's infuriating cuz I'm like, can't you just
46:22.682 --> 46:26.477
meet me in the bottom here and be like, that sucks. Mm-hmm. That's real.
46:26.605 --> 46:30.291
That, yep, that sucks. Like sometimes I don't know which is better and sometimes
46:30.791 --> 46:33.143
you want them both, but like, I don't know if it would've been more helpful
46:33.175 --> 46:36.541
if he was like, yeah, that's awful. I wish there were
46:37.041 --> 46:40.707
that age gap too. Yeah. Maybe not for you. I guess it's person specific.
46:41.332 --> 46:45.422
I think also, um, where we did get
46:45.922 --> 46:49.359
pregnant pretty quick. Like, the difference in what would have been and what is
46:49.537 --> 46:52.772
is like 3 months. I think if we had had more trouble,
46:53.206 --> 46:56.649
like, afterward, like, then, then I think we both
46:56.746 --> 47:00.604
would have met until in that space there. But I think,
47:00.765 --> 47:04.300
um, I think that, like,
47:04.316 --> 47:07.385
and, and now looking back, it's like, what is 3 months? You know what I
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mean? But for me, it was We miss that age gap. And then what if
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each month it's difficult to get pregnant and then the age gap goes even
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longer? And then I would always be like, oh, I was pregnant for that short,
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you know, imagine if that worked out. Right. So yeah, hard to
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say. It's just hard to say. Your brain goes into so many like
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spirals and, and worry. I just felt being,
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I was just so worried and anxious around that time. Yeah.
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Which is fair. It's a lot. Well, thank you for sharing all of
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that. I'm sure, I know, I mean, it's helpful for me to hear and I
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haven't gone through, or I don't know if I ever will, if I ever try
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again, but it's all, I think, helpful. Yeah. Um, for people to know
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who haven't gone through and people that have or will or all the things.
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So, um, sharing your experience is really great and I know how deep it goes.
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Um, so thank you.