WEBVTT
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Welcome to Drilling into Crypto. I'm your host, Mohammad al
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MASRII Every week I speak to the leaders that are
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driving the global financial revolution. Drilling into Crypto puts the
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spotlight on the importance of crypto assets on energy markets
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and on global monetary policy. Bren, thank you for joining
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Drilling into Crypto and being on the show.
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Thank you for having me, Mohammed.
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I want to start off by really asking you about yourself,
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learning more about your journey, how you got into bitcoin,
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where it all started.
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Sure, So I started my career in the stockbrokerage firm
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and we were working on setting up a digital representation
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of the stock exchange here in Norway.
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So all the.
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All the traders were moving from the physical stock exchange
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themselves and sitting on individual offices, being able to trade
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over the computer instead of analog.
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Trade.
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So I mean this was a breakthrough because we had
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just gotten the internet basically the year before I started working,
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and this was a big deal to have online trading
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instead of physical trading, I guess, or analog trading.
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I spent the first you.
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Know, ten years in two in the two thousands working
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with banks and stock exchanges and an ever increasing need
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for speed on trading platforms and so on. I was
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even at a data center in Stockholm cutting down cables
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or cutting down the length of a cable to make
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it short order from one exchange tool to our trading platform. Uh,
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making it that distance as tight as possible. And we're
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talking like cutting down a computer cable by this much
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to make the trading faster, so the hundreds of a millisecond,
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right and and uh, I knew, you know, from from
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my experience, there was a lot of of this setting
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up proprietary networks, proprietary systems for the financial network, for
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banks and for exchanges and data centers all over the Nordics,
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in in mountain regions and and uh, you know, hidden
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from the public. And then I kind of stumbled on
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to bitcoin in twenty twelve. I was kind of searching
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for an incentive program or somehow I could pay my employees,
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would an incentive structure, and it was googling everything around,
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like money for employees or motivation, and suddenly I got
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the Bitcoin white paper. I started reading it, and one
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of my employees had heard of it before, but we
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kind of came to the quick consensus right there and
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then that, oh, this has to be a scam. This
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is bullshit. You can't have money on the internet. Everything
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can be hacked, so this is not going to work out.
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And so I kind of put.
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It aside, but I thought it was curious that someone
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would go to the length of writing a seven page
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paper on something that obviously is not going to work.
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So kind of like took it up from time to time,
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but never had time to really read it until about
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a year and a half later, the summer of twenty thirteen,
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where I had my parental league gotten a daughter, and
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I had some time to look at stuff that i'd
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kind of blown away, and started reading the Bitcoin white paper,
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looking it up and googling it. To my surprise, it
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was not only was it not there anymore, it was
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just expanding and getting bigger. And I read about, you
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know how the different attack vectors of fifty one percent
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attack and so, and I was like, this is very,
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very intriguing because it means you could send value over
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the internet, unlike everything that I've ever learned about the
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financial system, which is proprietary cables, expensive cables, And so
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I was like, okay, what do I do, Like do
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I continue my career in setting up expensive networks, proprietary networks,
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or do I just say, you know, all in on
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this bitcoin thing. And I pretty much decided there and
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then that I would try I would start my own company.
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So when my my Frindal lead was done, I quit
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my company that I was working for and I started
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my own company.
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And I started mining.
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I started doing you know, lots of different things, mostly
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in it, but keeping an eye on bitcoin and the development,
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and and you know, you go through the stages of like, oh,
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it's not big, it's blockchain, and you kind of you know,
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and then you get interested into a theory, and then
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you get pulled in this direction, pulled in that direction.
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And then at the end of it, you know, like
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in two thousand and seventeen, right before the big boom
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in twenty seventeen on the price, I was, you know,
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I was pretty sure firm about it's bitcoin. It has
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nothing to do with blockchain. It's decentralized bitcoin. That's all
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you need to worry about.
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So you've been in yeah, that was a you mentioned
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you've been a bitcoincidence, like around twenty twelve, twenty thirteen,
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and and you know, yeah, from a cybersecurity and transparency standpoint.
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Why is bitcoin fundamentally different from from the schemes it's
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often grouped t win like from from these other out
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coins I presume, right, Why do you sure coin is
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fundamentally different but mainly from that you know, cybersecurity and
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transparency standpoint?
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Well, it's it's quite easy actually, because Bitcoin has attracted
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the most computing power for its mining ya, meaning there
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is first of all, it's decentralized, and it's purely decentralized.
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You have such.
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Massive global mining that no one has.
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Has any.
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What should I say, advantage of their mining compared to
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anyone else. Now, a lot of people come to me
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and say, well, that's not true, because you have these
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mining pools.
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Well, let me tell you.
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Mining pools does not matter when it comes to the
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discussion of decentralization. Mining pools is just a collection working together.
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If you're not happy with the people you're working with,
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you change pools within ten minutes, so it only has
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a centralization effect for ten.
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Minutes and then it doesn't anymore.
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Everyone mining is definitely afraid of this centralization, so everybody
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tries to keep it decentralized as much as they can.
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But this also means that anything that runs the same
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protocols as Bitcoin can be destroyed by these same miners
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if these miners say, okay, look at well, if you
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look at some of the early versions, like let's take
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bitcoin cash, right, it runs on the same same basic principle,
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same infrastructure. If someone wanted to do a fifty one
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percent attack on bitcoin cash, it would be quite easy
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to do if they have the mining power, So they
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would just switch from mining BTC bitcoin to mining bitcoin
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cash and then they would you know, if they have
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enough power, it could do a fifty one percent change
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the software, do a double spend. I mean, there's many
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many crazy things you can do with a cryptocurrency once
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you have a majority of fifty one percent possibility.
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But yeah, that's why no other.
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Cryptocurrency is as safe as bitcoin. And then you know,
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we can always discuss how the evolution of certain cryptocurrencies
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have evolved, as in well, take bigcoins. Atoshi vision is
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completely controlled by one entity. Ethereum has an organization. It's
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not technically centralized, it's very technically decentralized. But you do
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have voices, you have metallic italic says jump, you say
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how high. You know, that's that's the way ethereum works.
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And and you have other, you know, cryptocurrencies where you
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have some form of centralized either organization or group or entity.
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And then you have the one the cryptocurrencies that are
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not afraid to be centralized, like Ripple and x RP,
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Solana highly centralized. These are super centralized cryptocurrencies. And and
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that makes me kind of like, okay, so.
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What is the point.
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What is the point of these This is the whole
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point of cryptocurrencies that you don't want anyone to have
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the ultimate totalitarian control over the currency. We want the
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software rules to be the rules of the of the system,
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not any rulers. So you know, Brad Garlinghouse at Ripple,
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he has he has ultimate rule over x RP. He
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can change every single rule tomorrow morning. And so I
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don't touch the stuff. I don't touch centralized cryptocurrencies at all.
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And which you know, this ultimately.
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Takes us down the path of CBDCs and central bank
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digital currencies, which is highly dangerous. It's very dangerous if
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we get into that state, because then you have programmable
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money that can programs society. Now, I think programmable money
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is a good idea. If it is decentralized, if no
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one has the ultimate power of the system for grammable money,
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it might be a good idea, but not if it's
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controlled by someone, then you have a problem, a major problem.
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Yeah, I mean I have to agree with you on
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that one. And that's not because I not because I
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don't believe that there should be policies and systems and regulations,
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but because I do believe that sometimes there is. I mean,
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sometimes there is this risk of asymmetry between policy makers
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and you know, people that have skin in the game
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and that are actually adopting and using this technology for
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the greater good or for the betterment of their own
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lives or financial stability and financial freedom, but not so
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much financial freedom from the perspective of being rich or
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or having a lot of capital reserves right, but financial
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freedom from the perspective of having the freedom to choose
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your financial system and having the freedom of choice to
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which monetary policy you want to adopt for your own business,
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for your own life, and for the way you want
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to take in this socioeconomic structure of ours in today's world.
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Because I do believe there's no there's no exit from
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the matrix right, or the matrix society that we live in,
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like there's an exit from it, but now there exists
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technologies that gives you alternatives from how you want to
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live your life, because ultimately you still need to own
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exactly right. You still need to on ramp and off
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in order to partake in the social order we have, right,
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I mean, until it becomes widely adopted.
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I think I think you know much of the pain
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that we're seeing in the world today, much of what's happening,
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and we can blame it on on the Orange guy
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in the States, or we can you know, there's there's
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there's lots of things going on, but ultimately, if you
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boil it down, I think we're we're in the midst.
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Of seeing FILT collapse. Where fielt has has worked really.
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Well for many many years, and it worked really well
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for this ultimately globalization movement of the world stands together.
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But as soon as you have countries fighting each other,
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h before we get to the physical fighting, you have
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an an economic fight. And fiat is is the worst
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money to be holding when you have these economic fights,
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because there's so much different leverage in the system and
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you could pull and twist and everybody loses. Everybody loses
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in the field fight. So I think I think, you know,
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the global elitist is now in doubles and they're coming
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to terms with this that that maybe Field isn't a
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great idea. If you know, if we're not going for
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a globalization community where the whole world is in kombaya,
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if we all have to stand individually or or have
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smaller groups, then FIAT is bad news for all of us.
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So what do we do?
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And they're you know, there are many a lot of people,
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as we've seen now golden silver are all time highs
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because they're going to the traditional way of getting away
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from this problem, which in the last five thousand years
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have been golden silver.
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But in the.
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Last sixteen years we've had a separate alternative, and and
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you know, the last at least maybe of that sixteen
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the last eight years we've really had some competition to
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that alternative too, Meaning yeah, bitcoin was born well seventeen
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years ago, and in the last eight years we've had
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competitors to Bitcoin. We've had things that test if bitcoin
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really is the right code or if there's some alternative.
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I really really really appreciate all the out coins out there,
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and I thank the community so much for making all
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those out coins, because then we can really test if
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if bitcoin should be what Bitcoin has become. If if
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some out coin was better than Bitcoin, we would have
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seen that right away, we would have changed. So I
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appreciate competition. I've really enjoyed that there is a competition
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out there. I can't stress that enough. It doesn't you
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don't get that. Oh, bitcoin is number one just because
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it's number one. No, it's number one because it's been
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tested seven thousand times every single day for the last
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seventeen years.
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That's why it's number one, right.
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Yeah, that's it. Definitely, so I don't know, definitely has
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track work. Uh look, I'm uh.
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I believe in like, you'll never know the value of
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bitcoin until you actually sacrifice your entire fiat life for bitcoin,
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because you know, at least it was an extent and
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a and for a certain period of time. Because I'm
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one of those people. Ah, I'm one of those people
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that lived, yeah, I on bitcoin, right, one of those
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people that took the time yeah on bitcoin literally.
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And I did that too about a year a year
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and a half ago, I, you know, opted out of
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the fiat world.
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Completely. Uh so, I have you know, credit card, spotted wallet.
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There is volatility and and if you're if if you
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decide to live off of it and live on then
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you know, you're going to have to understand the volatility,
250
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Understand the cycles, Understand how that everything that happens with bitcoin,
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whether fundamentally or technically, is a feature, and how you
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00:19:13.799 --> 00:19:18.279
can benefit from that feature. Whether it's with you know,
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trading bots that you know you use to optimize your
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bitcoin treasury, whether it's with bitcoin mining that you use
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to have infrastructure backed assets to safeguard your downside risk,
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you know, and whether it's you know, with how you
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spend it, how you use it, how you invest it
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right and holding bitcoin in it in itself is good
259
00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:43.720
on the long term, you know, if you're looking at
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a five year horizon as a store of value, but
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for short term cycles, and if you're actually using it
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as a currency, then you have to learn how to
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00:19:53.599 --> 00:19:59.599
adopt a holistic approach to holding bitcoin, investing your bit
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poin and putting your coin to work. It's it's it's
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money on steroids when you put.
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It to work the right way.
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Yeah, but I don't I don't know if you've noticed this,
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and I would very much like to discuss this with you,
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because when I started spending my bitcoin and and using
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it as my daily driver, you know, I'm opted out
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of field. But then I'm constantly thinking, Okay, so the
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money I have will go up in value. Yeah, why
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do I want to buy something that is just going
274
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to hold its short term value? Like I tend to
275
00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:50.640
buy higher quality of good snow. I don't know why
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00:20:50.680 --> 00:20:53.920
that is, but it's just like, I'm just I'm not
277
00:20:54.119 --> 00:20:57.119
buying it a jacket that's not going to last at
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00:20:57.200 --> 00:21:02.279
least five years, you like, and fee I would feel
279
00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:05.039
fine buying a jacket I'm just gonna wear this season,
280
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you know, But now I'm not. I'm not buying anything
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that's not gonna last.
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We just.
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Premium life, you know, you upgrade your.
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Life, you do because you're not you want you know,
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you you feel that because you're you're in a deflationary.
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Monetary situation. You feel like, you know, if I wait
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00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:38.799
another month, I can afford more. But if I buy
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00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:45.720
this frying pan that's gonna you know, last me, uh,
289
00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:49.640
the rest of my life, you know, and spend a
290
00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:53.440
little more, then it doesn't matter.
291
00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:56.359
If the coin kind of goes up in value because.
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00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:59.319
My frying pan check, I don't I never have to
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00:21:59.319 --> 00:22:03.759
buy a frank pan. And again, right, and it wasn't
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that way. It wasn't that thinking with with Fiat. I
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00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:10.119
was just like, I want to get the cheapest frying
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00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:12.680
pan you have because I know that all frying pans
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00:22:12.680 --> 00:22:15.720
are going to break or you know, and I'm just
298
00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:17.599
going to buy a new one next year or in
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00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:19.240
three months or whatever.
300
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:23.880
So you really go through this change.
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00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:26.599
And also one of the things that I like to
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do is when I'm in a store trying to do
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a purchase.
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I have Let's say I have a.
305
00:22:33.559 --> 00:22:39.279
Daily amount of the money available to me, so I
306
00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:43.000
can buy groceries and easy things, but I don't have,
307
00:22:43.640 --> 00:22:47.799
you know, let's say the value of a good winter jacket.
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I don't carry that on me at all times. So
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I go to the store and I see this nice
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jacket that I want to buy.
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Now I got to move money from my kind of
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00:23:02.200 --> 00:23:07.079
savings over to my credit card or point of purchase
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or whatever purchase means I.
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Have for that store.
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I mean, if they take lightning, great, but if they don't,
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which most don't, so I'm moved to a credit card.
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I now am stuck in a situation where the blockchain
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needs my ten minutes or maybe even more. I'm not
319
00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:36.319
skimping on fees, so usually ten minutes.
320
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Maybe twenty minutes.
321
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I have to wait, you know, for a new block
322
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that gives me twenty minutes of kind of dead time
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in the store or ten minutes dead time in the
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store to.
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Really evaluate do I need that jacket? Do I really
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need that jacket?
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And I'm telling you several times I've I've moved the
328
00:23:57.720 --> 00:24:01.480
money from my savings, been stuck and waiting for that
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00:24:01.559 --> 00:24:05.519
block to pass, and then passed on the good that
330
00:24:05.599 --> 00:24:08.039
I was going to buy. I'm turning my back and
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00:24:08.119 --> 00:24:11.519
walking out the store without without a new jacket, right.
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I love those those I think it's just fascinated because
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00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:18.759
you know, if I had FIA right there and then
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00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:20.839
that jacket would be on my back in no time.
335
00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:21.400
Yeah.
336
00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:26.000
No, uh, I love those moments where you know you're
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waiting for that block.
338
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And then you change your mind. It happens a lot.
339
00:24:31.720 --> 00:24:32.279
I agree.
340
00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:38.599
Yeah, I'm laughing because I can relate so uh, you know,
341
00:24:38.920 --> 00:24:43.559
big coins, bit coins, and it's it definitely changes your mindset.
342
00:24:43.960 --> 00:24:47.119
It allows you to upgrade, you know, your your financial
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literacy and improve in terms of how you want to
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live your life. And you know, when when you're adopting,
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when you're holding you know, valuable money or pre meum money,
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00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:03.880
you're gonna automatically want to live a premium life. No
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00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:05.960
one wants to sell their bitcoin. So if you said
348
00:25:06.039 --> 00:25:10.960
you're going to be cautious on where it goes, I
349
00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:16.480
mean back to like the serious topics I wanted to
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00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:19.759
to get your inputs on. Is bitcoin You know, it's
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00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:24.319
often blamed as ah, it's often blamed for crime, right
352
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and you know, you and I and a lot of
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00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:30.359
people in the industry argue the opposite.
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00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:32.279
And there are very very valid.
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Arguments for why it's not, you know, simply a meat
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00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:40.759
a tool for financial crime. But in the world of
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00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:45.960
you know, vague or opaque fiat flows that are not
358
00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:50.960
necessarily transparent and political money, why is bitcoin actually one
359
00:25:50.960 --> 00:25:55.519
of the most transparent financial systems ever create. I know
360
00:25:55.599 --> 00:26:00.200
you touched on that earlier here, but as as as
361
00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:04.799
we look at it from you know, a political lens,
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right m you know, and there has been let me
363
00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:16.279
let me yeahs and sovereign wealth funds around the world
364
00:26:16.720 --> 00:26:22.039
into bitcoin. Is it because a fear of missing out
365
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:26.839
or they don't want to look it's a reputational risk
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00:26:26.920 --> 00:26:32.160
because if bitcoin actually achieves you know, the returns and
367
00:26:32.200 --> 00:26:35.000
the rates and the value and the adoption that we
368
00:26:35.160 --> 00:26:38.359
claim it will achieve, or that the trends show that
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00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:40.839
they don't want to feel left out. Or is it
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00:26:40.839 --> 00:26:43.440
because they actually believe in the technology, or do they
371
00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:46.039
want to control the value or the flow of bitcoin.
372
00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:48.359
So you know, all these things come to mind when
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00:26:48.759 --> 00:26:52.599
you try to make your argument as someone who's in
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00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:56.519
the bitcoin business, not just as a not just adopting
375
00:26:56.559 --> 00:27:00.880
bitcoin for their daily life, but someone who's business is coin, right,
376
00:27:01.400 --> 00:27:04.720
you always find your way in a position where you
377
00:27:04.799 --> 00:27:08.759
have to argue the opposite right, And and that's why
378
00:27:08.759 --> 00:27:09.680
I ask you this question.
379
00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:14.839
Yeah, well it's it's you know, I've you know, I
380
00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:20.880
built my reputation on the fighting scams in this in
381
00:27:21.039 --> 00:27:23.440
this you know industry.
382
00:27:23.480 --> 00:27:26.200
I was one of the top you.
383
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:29.480
Know, people involved in taking down one coin, which was
384
00:27:29.960 --> 00:27:37.359
a big scam. But you know, with with my work
385
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:41.839
in that field, I've had the pleasure to be in
386
00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:45.200
contact with in the pool with euro pool with the
387
00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:50.480
Norwegian Financial Police, Swedish Financial Police, German and some and
388
00:27:50.480 --> 00:27:54.279
and also the FBI and and one of the things
389
00:27:54.319 --> 00:27:59.200
that I noticed is, you know, from my background from cybersecurity,
390
00:27:59.839 --> 00:28:06.599
I know that using a network, using TCP, IP, the Internet,
391
00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:11.519
you always have a port that you're using an exit
392
00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:15.720
port for. So when you look at a web page,
393
00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:19.119
it's it's port eighty eighty or Port eighty. If you're
394
00:28:19.240 --> 00:28:24.279
using email, it's port twenty three and different ports. Right,
395
00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:30.680
So the bitcoin port is eight three three three right now,
396
00:28:30.759 --> 00:28:34.480
who carries a log on that? Well, your ISPs do.
397
00:28:35.240 --> 00:28:39.480
So in Norway we basically have two major ISPs.
398
00:28:39.480 --> 00:28:40.039
Well we have.
399
00:28:40.160 --> 00:28:44.000
Many ISPs, but they're all connected to the two national
400
00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:47.359
you know kind of ISPs. So anything going out of
401
00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:51.039
the country is going to go via those national ISPs.
402
00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:57.559
So if we know that a bitcoin transaction has taken
403
00:28:57.599 --> 00:29:01.440
place and it was an illegal transaction, it was for
404
00:29:01.720 --> 00:29:06.680
drugs or someone paid off something, right, and we have
405
00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:11.519
that transaction in the blockchain. We also have the time stamp.
406
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:16.480
Now we can go to the national ISPs and ask
407
00:29:16.559 --> 00:29:20.880
to see their lugs on that time stamp and see
408
00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:27.279
if anyone accessed eight three three three if they if
409
00:29:27.319 --> 00:29:32.000
we find that that's tied to a local IP address
410
00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:38.960
or uh an number number, which is the kind of
411
00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:43.480
in phone number if you use the phone, and if
412
00:29:43.519 --> 00:29:48.039
the police can get the number, they can.
413
00:29:47.960 --> 00:29:48.759
Live track you.
414
00:29:49.480 --> 00:29:56.400
Now, how safe is bitcoin If you spent bitcoin buying
415
00:29:56.480 --> 00:30:01.680
drugs and that gives the police access to live track you,
416
00:30:03.319 --> 00:30:07.559
I would say, do not use bitcoin for anything illegal.
417
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:10.279
That would be the most stupidest thing you could do.
418
00:30:13.240 --> 00:30:15.559
If if it's not an email number, then it's a
419
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:21.240
local IP address, so that would be maybe an office
420
00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:27.519
or a home home address, so that would give the
421
00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:31.279
place basically your home address. Now, if you're a smart
422
00:30:31.319 --> 00:30:34.720
criminal and you use a VPN for instance, well the
423
00:30:34.839 --> 00:30:39.799
VPNs also have logs on all the all the network
424
00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:43.000
traffic that happens, so that that doesn't help you much.
425
00:30:43.799 --> 00:30:47.200
And if you go to the nearest McDonald's and use
426
00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:52.200
their network to do your transaction, well I'm sorry, but
427
00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:57.079
pretty much all McDonald's and everywhere where you'll find an
428
00:30:57.119 --> 00:31:00.559
open Internet, there's going to be video camera is around.
429
00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:02.920
We live in a and as.
430
00:31:06.279 --> 00:31:10.200
You know, a world full of biddy cameras now, and
431
00:31:10.279 --> 00:31:12.559
so we're just looking for a time stamp and we
432
00:31:13.079 --> 00:31:18.440
have young film. I would say, you know, use cash.
433
00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:22.799
If you're a criminal, use cash. There's no better way
434
00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:25.920
to do criminality. If you think that you can use
435
00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:32.240
bitcoin for criminal activity, it's just so dumb. Because these lugs,
436
00:31:32.519 --> 00:31:34.960
they exist for a long time. The blockchain is never
437
00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:38.279
going to get deleted, so we can go back, you know,
438
00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:42.119
several years on this and look at logs and find
439
00:31:42.680 --> 00:31:47.279
you know, I p addresses, em my numbers or home addresses.
440
00:31:47.799 --> 00:31:54.319
So yeah, definitely don't do that. But then you touched
441
00:31:54.359 --> 00:31:59.119
on a much more broader point, which was kind of like, well,
442
00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:03.559
I would say that all banks, financial institutions today, I
443
00:32:03.559 --> 00:32:08.160
think there's a clear consensus that everyone is telling you,
444
00:32:08.599 --> 00:32:13.279
I have five to ten allocation to bitcoin in your portfolio.
445
00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:17.599
I think that's super healthy. I think that's that's uh,
446
00:32:18.079 --> 00:32:19.839
you know, for me, that's not going to.
447
00:32:19.880 --> 00:32:21.880
Work because I just no more.
448
00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:25.559
Yeah, that's what I was going to I was exactly
449
00:32:25.559 --> 00:32:26.240
what I was going to ask.
450
00:32:26.279 --> 00:32:29.000
I mean, what happens when bitcoin enters balance sheets in
451
00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:34.359
the world you know, built on inflation, capital controls, centralized
452
00:32:34.440 --> 00:32:39.519
monetary authority. Who's losing power here? Actually if bitcoin enters balance.
453
00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:48.440
Sheets, well, ultimately central central banks are losing power.
454
00:32:48.519 --> 00:32:56.680
Right, all this centralized, all these centralized.
455
00:32:56.240 --> 00:33:00.680
To no, no, yeah, And this is this is the
456
00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:04.839
beauty of Satoshi Nakamoto. This is the essence of what
457
00:33:04.920 --> 00:33:08.240
he designed here was how do I make a monetary
458
00:33:08.319 --> 00:33:11.359
system where it doesn't matter how much you own of it,
459
00:33:11.440 --> 00:33:14.960
You're not getting more power than anyone else in the system.
460
00:33:15.799 --> 00:33:20.319
Even people that don't even own the currency has as
461
00:33:20.440 --> 00:33:26.079
much power as you do. As Michael Sailor does over bitcoin, right,
462
00:33:26.160 --> 00:33:29.400
Michael Saylor can say things and he can do things
463
00:33:29.799 --> 00:33:36.599
to Bitcoin, which you know, an less educated person or
464
00:33:36.720 --> 00:33:41.519
a naive beginner will listen to and maybe do some
465
00:33:42.400 --> 00:33:47.440
bad or good decision based on what Michael Sailor has said. Now,
466
00:33:47.480 --> 00:33:50.480
does that change of fundamentals in bitcoin?
467
00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:53.039
No, it doesn't.
468
00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:56.880
And you know if the big orange man in the
469
00:33:56.960 --> 00:34:00.240
state has a national fund and blah blah blah, well,
470
00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:06.319
does that change the fundamentals bitcoin? No, it doesn't. There
471
00:34:06.359 --> 00:34:09.440
is no one that can touch the fundamentals of bitcoin.
472
00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:15.840
This is the beauty of decentralization. And so yeah, a
473
00:34:15.880 --> 00:34:19.159
lot of people are buying bitcoin for the wrong reasons
474
00:34:19.239 --> 00:34:20.800
because they think that there's.
475
00:34:20.599 --> 00:34:24.000
Some kind of power to be gained or.
476
00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:28.679
Some some you know, if I could just get enough
477
00:34:28.679 --> 00:34:31.599
of bitcoin, I can be one of the global elites
478
00:34:31.639 --> 00:34:37.159
in the future or whatever. It doesn't work like that.
479
00:34:36.400 --> 00:34:41.159
That's the big secret in bitcoin is it's never going
480
00:34:41.239 --> 00:34:47.519
to give you any leverage in the system. You're going
481
00:34:47.599 --> 00:34:51.079
to play on an equal playing field as the guy
482
00:34:51.320 --> 00:34:58.760
in Nigeria or in India or El Salvador or Norway
483
00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:05.239
or wherever you are. Your playing field is equal. And
484
00:35:05.559 --> 00:35:07.920
I think you know, one of the things we'll see
485
00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:13.840
going down the line is is uh is, talent is
486
00:35:13.880 --> 00:35:17.239
going to be priced in bitcoin. Talent is one of
487
00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:19.800
the first things that's that's going to be priced in bitcoin.
488
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And we're gonna, you know, buy services from around the globe.
489
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We're going to buy the best, best services from the
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best people, and they're going to price in what they're
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00:35:33.719 --> 00:35:39.119
worth in bitcoin, and which will make you know, a
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lot of people talk about this wage gap that's going
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to disappear. Wage gap is a concept based on the
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field currency. There is a wage gap in bitcoin over
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00:35:53.440 --> 00:36:04.719
a long enough period, may well it's and also, I mean,
496
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accumulators have had the ultimate problem because it's basically impossible
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to hold the bitcoin. A lot of people come to
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me and say, well, you got into bitcoin at twenty thirteen,
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you must be a millionaire. The reason why I'm not
500
00:36:18.519 --> 00:36:22.840
a multi multi millionaire today is in twenty thirteen, when
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00:36:22.840 --> 00:36:26.639
I bought a thousand bitcoin, I was one hundred percent
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00:36:26.719 --> 00:36:29.480
sure that bitcoin is not going to survive, so I'd
503
00:36:29.480 --> 00:36:32.760
better use that thousand bitcoin to get buy a PlayStation.
504
00:36:33.400 --> 00:36:34.719
I bought a PlayStation for a.
505
00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:40.239
Thousand bitcoin, right, you know, eager to get rid of it.
506
00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:46.280
And you know, today no one knew who would get here.
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And of course I think it's you know, I'm not sad.
508
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I'm not sad or anything like that. I think it
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00:36:56.400 --> 00:37:02.440
was definitely worth it. But it's fun to think about this.
510
00:37:02.519 --> 00:37:05.679
You know, I played around with wallets I lost to bitcoin,
511
00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:11.760
and just she's getting messed up in the beginning today,
512
00:37:11.800 --> 00:37:14.440
that's you know, two hundred thousand dollars or whatever.
513
00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:16.400
That's crazy.
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That's a house, right, That's a small house in some countries.
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If there's one takeaway from today's session is that bitcoin
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is not about speculation. It's about transparency in the world.
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Build on hidden power. And you know, I want to
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thank you for joining us and being on the on
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00:37:38.840 --> 00:37:42.199
the show. Uh Drilling into crypto is more than just
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00:37:42.199 --> 00:37:46.000
about crypto. It's about you know, the hidden benefits and
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Hitten logic and the hidden technicalities.
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00:37:49.239 --> 00:37:51.760
Thanks for drilling into crypto with us. If you enjoyed
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00:37:51.760 --> 00:37:54.199
our discussion, please give us a like on your podcast
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00:37:54.239 --> 00:37:57.559
app or social media and don't forget to subscribe. Join
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00:37:57.639 --> 00:38:00.559
us next time when we will deliver more person effectives
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00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:04.840
on crypto, asset mining, energy markets, and the global financial revolution.
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Welcome to Drilling into Crypto. I'm your host, Mohammad al
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MASRII Every week I speak to the leaders that are
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driving the global financial revolution. Drilling into Crypto puts the
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spotlight on the importance of crypto assets on energy markets
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and on global monetary policy. Bren, thank you for joining
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Drilling into Crypto and being on the show.
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Thank you for having me, Mohammed.
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I want to start off by really asking you about yourself,
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learning more about your journey, how you got into bitcoin,
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where it all started.
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Sure, So I started my career in the stockbrokerage firm
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and we were working on setting up a digital representation
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of the stock exchange here in Norway.
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So all the.
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All the traders were moving from the physical stock exchange
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themselves and sitting on individual offices, being able to trade
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over the computer instead of analog.
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Trade.
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So I mean this was a breakthrough because we had
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just gotten the internet basically the year before I started working,
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and this was a big deal to have online trading
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instead of physical trading, I guess, or analog trading.
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I spent the first you.
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Know, ten years in two in the two thousands working
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with banks and stock exchanges and an ever increasing need
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for speed on trading platforms and so on. I was
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even at a data center in Stockholm cutting down cables
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or cutting down the length of a cable to make
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it short order from one exchange tool to our trading platform. Uh,
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making it that distance as tight as possible. And we're
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talking like cutting down a computer cable by this much
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to make the trading faster, so the hundreds of a millisecond,
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right and and uh, I knew, you know, from from
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my experience, there was a lot of of this setting
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up proprietary networks, proprietary systems for the financial network, for
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banks and for exchanges and data centers all over the Nordics,
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in in mountain regions and and uh, you know, hidden
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from the public. And then I kind of stumbled on
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to bitcoin in twenty twelve. I was kind of searching
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for an incentive program or somehow I could pay my employees,
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would an incentive structure, and it was googling everything around,
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like money for employees or motivation, and suddenly I got
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the Bitcoin white paper. I started reading it, and one
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of my employees had heard of it before, but we
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kind of came to the quick consensus right there and
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then that, oh, this has to be a scam. This
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is bullshit. You can't have money on the internet. Everything
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can be hacked, so this is not going to work out.
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And so I kind of put.
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It aside, but I thought it was curious that someone
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would go to the length of writing a seven page
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paper on something that obviously is not going to work.
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So kind of like took it up from time to time,
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but never had time to really read it until about
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a year and a half later, the summer of twenty thirteen,
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where I had my parental league gotten a daughter, and
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I had some time to look at stuff that i'd
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kind of blown away, and started reading the Bitcoin white paper,
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looking it up and googling it. To my surprise, it
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was not only was it not there anymore, it was
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just expanding and getting bigger. And I read about, you
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know how the different attack vectors of fifty one percent
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attack and so, and I was like, this is very,
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very intriguing because it means you could send value over
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the internet, unlike everything that I've ever learned about the
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financial system, which is proprietary cables, expensive cables, And so
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I was like, okay, what do I do, Like do
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I continue my career in setting up expensive networks, proprietary networks,
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or do I just say, you know, all in on
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this bitcoin thing. And I pretty much decided there and
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then that I would try I would start my own company.
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So when my my Frindal lead was done, I quit
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my company that I was working for and I started
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my own company.
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And I started mining.
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I started doing you know, lots of different things, mostly
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in it, but keeping an eye on bitcoin and the development,
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and and you know, you go through the stages of like, oh,
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it's not big, it's blockchain, and you kind of you know,
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and then you get interested into a theory, and then
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you get pulled in this direction, pulled in that direction.
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And then at the end of it, you know, like
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in two thousand and seventeen, right before the big boom
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in twenty seventeen on the price, I was, you know,
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I was pretty sure firm about it's bitcoin. It has
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nothing to do with blockchain. It's decentralized bitcoin. That's all
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you need to worry about.
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So you've been in yeah, that was a you mentioned
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you've been a bitcoincidence, like around twenty twelve, twenty thirteen,
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and and you know, yeah, from a cybersecurity and transparency standpoint.
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Why is bitcoin fundamentally different from from the schemes it's
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often grouped t win like from from these other out
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coins I presume, right, Why do you sure coin is
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fundamentally different but mainly from that you know, cybersecurity and
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transparency standpoint?
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Well, it's it's quite easy actually, because Bitcoin has attracted
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the most computing power for its mining ya, meaning there
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is first of all, it's decentralized, and it's purely decentralized.
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You have such.
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Massive global mining that no one has.
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Has any.
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What should I say, advantage of their mining compared to
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anyone else. Now, a lot of people come to me
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and say, well, that's not true, because you have these
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mining pools.
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Well, let me tell you.
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Mining pools does not matter when it comes to the
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discussion of decentralization. Mining pools is just a collection working together.
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If you're not happy with the people you're working with,
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you change pools within ten minutes, so it only has
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a centralization effect for ten.
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Minutes and then it doesn't anymore.
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Everyone mining is definitely afraid of this centralization, so everybody
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tries to keep it decentralized as much as they can.
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But this also means that anything that runs the same
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protocols as Bitcoin can be destroyed by these same miners
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if these miners say, okay, look at well, if you
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look at some of the early versions, like let's take
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bitcoin cash, right, it runs on the same same basic principle,
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same infrastructure. If someone wanted to do a fifty one
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percent attack on bitcoin cash, it would be quite easy
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to do if they have the mining power, So they
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would just switch from mining BTC bitcoin to mining bitcoin
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cash and then they would you know, if they have
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enough power, it could do a fifty one percent change
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the software, do a double spend. I mean, there's many
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many crazy things you can do with a cryptocurrency once
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you have a majority of fifty one percent possibility.
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But yeah, that's why no other.
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Cryptocurrency is as safe as bitcoin. And then you know,
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we can always discuss how the evolution of certain cryptocurrencies
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have evolved, as in well, take bigcoins. Atoshi vision is
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completely controlled by one entity. Ethereum has an organization. It's
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not technically centralized, it's very technically decentralized. But you do
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have voices, you have metallic italic says jump, you say
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how high. You know, that's that's the way ethereum works.
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And and you have other, you know, cryptocurrencies where you
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have some form of centralized either organization or group or entity.
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And then you have the one the cryptocurrencies that are
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not afraid to be centralized, like Ripple and x RP,
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Solana highly centralized. These are super centralized cryptocurrencies. And and
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that makes me kind of like, okay, so.
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What is the point.
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What is the point of these This is the whole
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point of cryptocurrencies that you don't want anyone to have
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the ultimate totalitarian control over the currency. We want the
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software rules to be the rules of the of the system,
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not any rulers. So you know, Brad Garlinghouse at Ripple,
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he has he has ultimate rule over x RP. He
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can change every single rule tomorrow morning. And so I
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don't touch the stuff. I don't touch centralized cryptocurrencies at all.
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And which you know, this ultimately.
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Takes us down the path of CBDCs and central bank
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digital currencies, which is highly dangerous. It's very dangerous if
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we get into that state, because then you have programmable
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money that can programs society. Now, I think programmable money
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is a good idea. If it is decentralized, if no
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one has the ultimate power of the system for grammable money,
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it might be a good idea, but not if it's
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controlled by someone, then you have a problem, a major problem.
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Yeah, I mean I have to agree with you on
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that one. And that's not because I not because I
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don't believe that there should be policies and systems and regulations,
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but because I do believe that sometimes there is. I mean,
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sometimes there is this risk of asymmetry between policy makers
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and you know, people that have skin in the game
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and that are actually adopting and using this technology for
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the greater good or for the betterment of their own
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lives or financial stability and financial freedom, but not so
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much financial freedom from the perspective of being rich or
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or having a lot of capital reserves right, but financial
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freedom from the perspective of having the freedom to choose
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your financial system and having the freedom of choice to
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which monetary policy you want to adopt for your own business,
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for your own life, and for the way you want
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to take in this socioeconomic structure of ours in today's world.
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Because I do believe there's no there's no exit from
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the matrix right, or the matrix society that we live in,
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like there's an exit from it, but now there exists
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technologies that gives you alternatives from how you want to
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live your life, because ultimately you still need to own
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exactly right. You still need to on ramp and off
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in order to partake in the social order we have, right,
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I mean, until it becomes widely adopted.
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I think I think you know much of the pain
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that we're seeing in the world today, much of what's happening,
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and we can blame it on on the Orange guy
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in the States, or we can you know, there's there's
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there's lots of things going on, but ultimately, if you
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boil it down, I think we're we're in the midst.
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Of seeing FILT collapse. Where fielt has has worked really.
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Well for many many years, and it worked really well
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for this ultimately globalization movement of the world stands together.
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But as soon as you have countries fighting each other,
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h before we get to the physical fighting, you have
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an an economic fight. And fiat is is the worst
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money to be holding when you have these economic fights,
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because there's so much different leverage in the system and
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you could pull and twist and everybody loses. Everybody loses
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in the field fight. So I think I think, you know,
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the global elitist is now in doubles and they're coming
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to terms with this that that maybe Field isn't a
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great idea. If you know, if we're not going for
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a globalization community where the whole world is in kombaya,
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if we all have to stand individually or or have
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smaller groups, then FIAT is bad news for all of us.
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So what do we do?
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And they're you know, there are many a lot of people,
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as we've seen now golden silver are all time highs
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because they're going to the traditional way of getting away
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from this problem, which in the last five thousand years
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have been golden silver.
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But in the.
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Last sixteen years we've had a separate alternative, and and
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you know, the last at least maybe of that sixteen
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the last eight years we've really had some competition to
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that alternative too, Meaning yeah, bitcoin was born well seventeen
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years ago, and in the last eight years we've had
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competitors to Bitcoin. We've had things that test if bitcoin
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really is the right code or if there's some alternative.
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I really really really appreciate all the out coins out there,
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and I thank the community so much for making all
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those out coins, because then we can really test if
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if bitcoin should be what Bitcoin has become. If if
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some out coin was better than Bitcoin, we would have
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seen that right away, we would have changed. So I
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appreciate competition. I've really enjoyed that there is a competition
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out there. I can't stress that enough. It doesn't you
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don't get that. Oh, bitcoin is number one just because
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it's number one. No, it's number one because it's been
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tested seven thousand times every single day for the last
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seventeen years.
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That's why it's number one, right.
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Yeah, that's it. Definitely, so I don't know, definitely has
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track work. Uh look, I'm uh.
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I believe in like, you'll never know the value of
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bitcoin until you actually sacrifice your entire fiat life for bitcoin,
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because you know, at least it was an extent and
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a and for a certain period of time. Because I'm
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one of those people. Ah, I'm one of those people
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that lived, yeah, I on bitcoin, right, one of those
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people that took the time yeah on bitcoin literally.
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And I did that too about a year a year
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and a half ago, I, you know, opted out of
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the fiat world.
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Completely. Uh so, I have you know, credit card, spotted wallet.
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There is volatility and and if you're if if you
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decide to live off of it and live on then
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you know, you're going to have to understand the volatility,
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Understand the cycles, Understand how that everything that happens with bitcoin,
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whether fundamentally or technically, is a feature, and how you
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can benefit from that feature. Whether it's with you know,
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trading bots that you know you use to optimize your
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bitcoin treasury, whether it's with bitcoin mining that you use
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to have infrastructure backed assets to safeguard your downside risk,
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you know, and whether it's you know, with how you
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spend it, how you use it, how you invest it
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right and holding bitcoin in it in itself is good
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on the long term, you know, if you're looking at
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a five year horizon as a store of value, but
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for short term cycles, and if you're actually using it
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as a currency, then you have to learn how to
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adopt a holistic approach to holding bitcoin, investing your bit
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poin and putting your coin to work. It's it's it's
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money on steroids when you put.
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It to work the right way.
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Yeah, but I don't I don't know if you've noticed this,
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and I would very much like to discuss this with you,
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because when I started spending my bitcoin and and using
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it as my daily driver, you know, I'm opted out
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of field. But then I'm constantly thinking, Okay, so the
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money I have will go up in value. Yeah, why
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do I want to buy something that is just going
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to hold its short term value? Like I tend to
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buy higher quality of good snow. I don't know why
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that is, but it's just like, I'm just I'm not
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buying it a jacket that's not going to last at
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least five years, you like, and fee I would feel
279
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fine buying a jacket I'm just gonna wear this season,
280
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you know, But now I'm not. I'm not buying anything
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that's not gonna last.
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We just.
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Premium life, you know, you upgrade your.
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Life, you do because you're not you want you know,
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you you feel that because you're you're in a deflationary.
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Monetary situation. You feel like, you know, if I wait
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another month, I can afford more. But if I buy
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this frying pan that's gonna you know, last me, uh,
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the rest of my life, you know, and spend a
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little more, then it doesn't matter.
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If the coin kind of goes up in value because.
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My frying pan check, I don't I never have to
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buy a frank pan. And again, right, and it wasn't
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that way. It wasn't that thinking with with Fiat. I
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was just like, I want to get the cheapest frying
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pan you have because I know that all frying pans
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are going to break or you know, and I'm just
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going to buy a new one next year or in
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three months or whatever.
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So you really go through this change.
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And also one of the things that I like to
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do is when I'm in a store trying to do
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a purchase.
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I have Let's say I have a.
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Daily amount of the money available to me, so I
306
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can buy groceries and easy things, but I don't have,
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you know, let's say the value of a good winter jacket.
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I don't carry that on me at all times. So
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I go to the store and I see this nice
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jacket that I want to buy.
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Now I got to move money from my kind of
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savings over to my credit card or point of purchase
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or whatever purchase means I.
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Have for that store.
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I mean, if they take lightning, great, but if they don't,
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which most don't, so I'm moved to a credit card.
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I now am stuck in a situation where the blockchain
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needs my ten minutes or maybe even more. I'm not
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skimping on fees, so usually ten minutes.
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Maybe twenty minutes.
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I have to wait, you know, for a new block
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that gives me twenty minutes of kind of dead time
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in the store or ten minutes dead time in the
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store to.
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Really evaluate do I need that jacket? Do I really
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need that jacket?
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And I'm telling you several times I've I've moved the
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money from my savings, been stuck and waiting for that
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block to pass, and then passed on the good that
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I was going to buy. I'm turning my back and
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walking out the store without without a new jacket, right.
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I love those those I think it's just fascinated because
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you know, if I had FIA right there and then
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that jacket would be on my back in no time.
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Yeah.
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No, uh, I love those moments where you know you're
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waiting for that block.
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And then you change your mind. It happens a lot.
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I agree.
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Yeah, I'm laughing because I can relate so uh, you know,
341
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big coins, bit coins, and it's it definitely changes your mindset.
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It allows you to upgrade, you know, your your financial
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literacy and improve in terms of how you want to
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live your life. And you know, when when you're adopting,
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when you're holding you know, valuable money or pre meum money,
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you're gonna automatically want to live a premium life. No
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one wants to sell their bitcoin. So if you said
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you're going to be cautious on where it goes, I
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mean back to like the serious topics I wanted to
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to get your inputs on. Is bitcoin You know, it's
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often blamed as ah, it's often blamed for crime, right
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and you know, you and I and a lot of
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people in the industry argue the opposite.
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And there are very very valid.
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Arguments for why it's not, you know, simply a meat
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a tool for financial crime. But in the world of
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you know, vague or opaque fiat flows that are not
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necessarily transparent and political money, why is bitcoin actually one
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00:25:50.960 --> 00:25:55.519
of the most transparent financial systems ever create. I know
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you touched on that earlier here, but as as as
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we look at it from you know, a political lens,
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right m you know, and there has been let me
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00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:16.279
let me yeahs and sovereign wealth funds around the world
364
00:26:16.720 --> 00:26:22.039
into bitcoin. Is it because a fear of missing out
365
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:26.839
or they don't want to look it's a reputational risk
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because if bitcoin actually achieves you know, the returns and
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the rates and the value and the adoption that we
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claim it will achieve, or that the trends show that
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they don't want to feel left out. Or is it
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because they actually believe in the technology, or do they
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want to control the value or the flow of bitcoin.
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So you know, all these things come to mind when
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you try to make your argument as someone who's in
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the bitcoin business, not just as a not just adopting
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bitcoin for their daily life, but someone who's business is coin, right,
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00:27:01.400 --> 00:27:04.720
you always find your way in a position where you
377
00:27:04.799 --> 00:27:08.759
have to argue the opposite right, And and that's why
378
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I ask you this question.
379
00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:14.839
Yeah, well it's it's you know, I've you know, I
380
00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:20.880
built my reputation on the fighting scams in this in
381
00:27:21.039 --> 00:27:23.440
this you know industry.
382
00:27:23.480 --> 00:27:26.200
I was one of the top you.
383
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:29.480
Know, people involved in taking down one coin, which was
384
00:27:29.960 --> 00:27:37.359
a big scam. But you know, with with my work
385
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:41.839
in that field, I've had the pleasure to be in
386
00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:45.200
contact with in the pool with euro pool with the
387
00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:50.480
Norwegian Financial Police, Swedish Financial Police, German and some and
388
00:27:50.480 --> 00:27:54.279
and also the FBI and and one of the things
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00:27:54.319 --> 00:27:59.200
that I noticed is, you know, from my background from cybersecurity,
390
00:27:59.839 --> 00:28:06.599
I know that using a network, using TCP, IP, the Internet,
391
00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:11.519
you always have a port that you're using an exit
392
00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:15.720
port for. So when you look at a web page,
393
00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:19.119
it's it's port eighty eighty or Port eighty. If you're
394
00:28:19.240 --> 00:28:24.279
using email, it's port twenty three and different ports. Right,
395
00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:30.680
So the bitcoin port is eight three three three right now,
396
00:28:30.759 --> 00:28:34.480
who carries a log on that? Well, your ISPs do.
397
00:28:35.240 --> 00:28:39.480
So in Norway we basically have two major ISPs.
398
00:28:39.480 --> 00:28:40.039
Well we have.
399
00:28:40.160 --> 00:28:44.000
Many ISPs, but they're all connected to the two national
400
00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:47.359
you know kind of ISPs. So anything going out of
401
00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:51.039
the country is going to go via those national ISPs.
402
00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:57.559
So if we know that a bitcoin transaction has taken
403
00:28:57.599 --> 00:29:01.440
place and it was an illegal transaction, it was for
404
00:29:01.720 --> 00:29:06.680
drugs or someone paid off something, right, and we have
405
00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:11.519
that transaction in the blockchain. We also have the time stamp.
406
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:16.480
Now we can go to the national ISPs and ask
407
00:29:16.559 --> 00:29:20.880
to see their lugs on that time stamp and see
408
00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:27.279
if anyone accessed eight three three three if they if
409
00:29:27.319 --> 00:29:32.000
we find that that's tied to a local IP address
410
00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:38.960
or uh an number number, which is the kind of
411
00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:43.480
in phone number if you use the phone, and if
412
00:29:43.519 --> 00:29:48.039
the police can get the number, they can.
413
00:29:47.960 --> 00:29:48.759
Live track you.
414
00:29:49.480 --> 00:29:56.400
Now, how safe is bitcoin If you spent bitcoin buying
415
00:29:56.480 --> 00:30:01.680
drugs and that gives the police access to live track you,
416
00:30:03.319 --> 00:30:07.559
I would say, do not use bitcoin for anything illegal.
417
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:10.279
That would be the most stupidest thing you could do.
418
00:30:13.240 --> 00:30:15.559
If if it's not an email number, then it's a
419
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:21.240
local IP address, so that would be maybe an office
420
00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:27.519
or a home home address, so that would give the
421
00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:31.279
place basically your home address. Now, if you're a smart
422
00:30:31.319 --> 00:30:34.720
criminal and you use a VPN for instance, well the
423
00:30:34.839 --> 00:30:39.799
VPNs also have logs on all the all the network
424
00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:43.000
traffic that happens, so that that doesn't help you much.
425
00:30:43.799 --> 00:30:47.200
And if you go to the nearest McDonald's and use
426
00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:52.200
their network to do your transaction, well I'm sorry, but
427
00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:57.079
pretty much all McDonald's and everywhere where you'll find an
428
00:30:57.119 --> 00:31:00.559
open Internet, there's going to be video camera is around.
429
00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:02.920
We live in a and as.
430
00:31:06.279 --> 00:31:10.200
You know, a world full of biddy cameras now, and
431
00:31:10.279 --> 00:31:12.559
so we're just looking for a time stamp and we
432
00:31:13.079 --> 00:31:18.440
have young film. I would say, you know, use cash.
433
00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:22.799
If you're a criminal, use cash. There's no better way
434
00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:25.920
to do criminality. If you think that you can use
435
00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:32.240
bitcoin for criminal activity, it's just so dumb. Because these lugs,
436
00:31:32.519 --> 00:31:34.960
they exist for a long time. The blockchain is never
437
00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:38.279
going to get deleted, so we can go back, you know,
438
00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:42.119
several years on this and look at logs and find
439
00:31:42.680 --> 00:31:47.279
you know, I p addresses, em my numbers or home addresses.
440
00:31:47.799 --> 00:31:54.319
So yeah, definitely don't do that. But then you touched
441
00:31:54.359 --> 00:31:59.119
on a much more broader point, which was kind of like, well,
442
00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:03.559
I would say that all banks, financial institutions today, I
443
00:32:03.559 --> 00:32:08.160
think there's a clear consensus that everyone is telling you,
444
00:32:08.599 --> 00:32:13.279
I have five to ten allocation to bitcoin in your portfolio.
445
00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:17.599
I think that's super healthy. I think that's that's uh,
446
00:32:18.079 --> 00:32:19.839
you know, for me, that's not going to.
447
00:32:19.880 --> 00:32:21.880
Work because I just no more.
448
00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:25.559
Yeah, that's what I was going to I was exactly
449
00:32:25.559 --> 00:32:26.240
what I was going to ask.
450
00:32:26.279 --> 00:32:29.000
I mean, what happens when bitcoin enters balance sheets in
451
00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:34.359
the world you know, built on inflation, capital controls, centralized
452
00:32:34.440 --> 00:32:39.519
monetary authority. Who's losing power here? Actually if bitcoin enters balance.
453
00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:48.440
Sheets, well, ultimately central central banks are losing power.
454
00:32:48.519 --> 00:32:56.680
Right, all this centralized, all these centralized.
455
00:32:56.240 --> 00:33:00.680
To no, no, yeah, And this is this is the
456
00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:04.839
beauty of Satoshi Nakamoto. This is the essence of what
457
00:33:04.920 --> 00:33:08.240
he designed here was how do I make a monetary
458
00:33:08.319 --> 00:33:11.359
system where it doesn't matter how much you own of it,
459
00:33:11.440 --> 00:33:14.960
You're not getting more power than anyone else in the system.
460
00:33:15.799 --> 00:33:20.319
Even people that don't even own the currency has as
461
00:33:20.440 --> 00:33:26.079
much power as you do. As Michael Sailor does over bitcoin, right,
462
00:33:26.160 --> 00:33:29.400
Michael Saylor can say things and he can do things
463
00:33:29.799 --> 00:33:36.599
to Bitcoin, which you know, an less educated person or
464
00:33:36.720 --> 00:33:41.519
a naive beginner will listen to and maybe do some
465
00:33:42.400 --> 00:33:47.440
bad or good decision based on what Michael Sailor has said. Now,
466
00:33:47.480 --> 00:33:50.480
does that change of fundamentals in bitcoin?
467
00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:53.039
No, it doesn't.
468
00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:56.880
And you know if the big orange man in the
469
00:33:56.960 --> 00:34:00.240
state has a national fund and blah blah blah, well,
470
00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:06.319
does that change the fundamentals bitcoin? No, it doesn't. There
471
00:34:06.359 --> 00:34:09.440
is no one that can touch the fundamentals of bitcoin.
472
00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:15.840
This is the beauty of decentralization. And so yeah, a
473
00:34:15.880 --> 00:34:19.159
lot of people are buying bitcoin for the wrong reasons
474
00:34:19.239 --> 00:34:20.800
because they think that there's.
475
00:34:20.599 --> 00:34:24.000
Some kind of power to be gained or.
476
00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:28.679
Some some you know, if I could just get enough
477
00:34:28.679 --> 00:34:31.599
of bitcoin, I can be one of the global elites
478
00:34:31.639 --> 00:34:37.159
in the future or whatever. It doesn't work like that.
479
00:34:36.400 --> 00:34:41.159
That's the big secret in bitcoin is it's never going
480
00:34:41.239 --> 00:34:47.519
to give you any leverage in the system. You're going
481
00:34:47.599 --> 00:34:51.079
to play on an equal playing field as the guy
482
00:34:51.320 --> 00:34:58.760
in Nigeria or in India or El Salvador or Norway
483
00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:05.239
or wherever you are. Your playing field is equal. And
484
00:35:05.559 --> 00:35:07.920
I think you know, one of the things we'll see
485
00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:13.840
going down the line is is uh is, talent is
486
00:35:13.880 --> 00:35:17.239
going to be priced in bitcoin. Talent is one of
487
00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:19.800
the first things that's that's going to be priced in bitcoin.
488
00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:25.599
And we're gonna, you know, buy services from around the globe.
489
00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:28.440
We're going to buy the best, best services from the
490
00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:33.639
best people, and they're going to price in what they're
491
00:35:33.719 --> 00:35:39.119
worth in bitcoin, and which will make you know, a
492
00:35:39.159 --> 00:35:43.679
lot of people talk about this wage gap that's going
493
00:35:43.800 --> 00:35:46.960
to disappear. Wage gap is a concept based on the
494
00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:53.039
field currency. There is a wage gap in bitcoin over
495
00:35:53.440 --> 00:36:04.719
a long enough period, may well it's and also, I mean,
496
00:36:06.119 --> 00:36:11.199
accumulators have had the ultimate problem because it's basically impossible
497
00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:13.480
to hold the bitcoin. A lot of people come to
498
00:36:13.519 --> 00:36:15.920
me and say, well, you got into bitcoin at twenty thirteen,
499
00:36:15.960 --> 00:36:18.480
you must be a millionaire. The reason why I'm not
500
00:36:18.519 --> 00:36:22.840
a multi multi millionaire today is in twenty thirteen, when
501
00:36:22.840 --> 00:36:26.639
I bought a thousand bitcoin, I was one hundred percent
502
00:36:26.719 --> 00:36:29.480
sure that bitcoin is not going to survive, so I'd
503
00:36:29.480 --> 00:36:32.760
better use that thousand bitcoin to get buy a PlayStation.
504
00:36:33.400 --> 00:36:34.719
I bought a PlayStation for a.
505
00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:40.239
Thousand bitcoin, right, you know, eager to get rid of it.
506
00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:46.280
And you know, today no one knew who would get here.
507
00:36:47.800 --> 00:36:51.920
And of course I think it's you know, I'm not sad.
508
00:36:52.280 --> 00:36:56.320
I'm not sad or anything like that. I think it
509
00:36:56.400 --> 00:37:02.440
was definitely worth it. But it's fun to think about this.
510
00:37:02.519 --> 00:37:05.679
You know, I played around with wallets I lost to bitcoin,
511
00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:11.760
and just she's getting messed up in the beginning today,
512
00:37:11.800 --> 00:37:14.440
that's you know, two hundred thousand dollars or whatever.
513
00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:16.400
That's crazy.
514
00:37:16.679 --> 00:37:20.599
That's a house, right, That's a small house in some countries.
515
00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:24.519
If there's one takeaway from today's session is that bitcoin
516
00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:30.000
is not about speculation. It's about transparency in the world.
517
00:37:30.440 --> 00:37:34.840
Build on hidden power. And you know, I want to
518
00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:38.679
thank you for joining us and being on the on
519
00:37:38.840 --> 00:37:42.199
the show. Uh Drilling into crypto is more than just
520
00:37:42.199 --> 00:37:46.000
about crypto. It's about you know, the hidden benefits and
521
00:37:46.639 --> 00:37:49.119
Hitten logic and the hidden technicalities.
522
00:37:49.239 --> 00:37:51.760
Thanks for drilling into crypto with us. If you enjoyed
523
00:37:51.760 --> 00:37:54.199
our discussion, please give us a like on your podcast
524
00:37:54.239 --> 00:37:57.559
app or social media and don't forget to subscribe. Join
525
00:37:57.639 --> 00:38:00.559
us next time when we will deliver more person effectives
526
00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:04.840
on crypto, asset mining, energy markets, and the global financial revolution.
