WEBVTT
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Welcome to Drilling into Crypto. I'm your host, Mohammed al MASRII.
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Every week I speak to the leaders that are driving
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the global financial revolution. Drilling into Crypto puts the spotlight
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on the importance of crypto assets on energy markets and
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on global monetary policy.
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Great.
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I have Schiraz Ahmed here from Storm. Thank you for
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joining Drilling into Crypto.
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My pleasure, I seemaay Uh Saraz.
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I like to ask you about yourself, you know, I
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always like to start off by getting the guest to
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give us, you know, a background on themselves and their
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journey and how they ventured into the space.
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Yeah, sure, pleasure. So, yeah, thank you, thanks for having
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me on the show. I'm being involved in the last
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space now for the past ten years. I guess before
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it was called a digital asset and it was just
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really crypto and kind of old coin trading. I got
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an involved in the early days at university actually personally,
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just through through trading, and then I think quote the
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bug on the basis of a lot of the innovation
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that was happening in this industry, I'd say it was
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beyond the financial side of the innovation. I think when
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it comes to blockchain technology and it being let's say,
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a relatively simple data management system that allows for a
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few components of transparency, immutability, decentralization. One of the key
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areas for me that was exciting was the tokenization of
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assets and just the ability, you know, for anyone anywhere
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to own anything.
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And that was a bit of.
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A pipe dream, I think, back in the day, But
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now it's becoming a bit more of reality. However, I
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think we're still far from some of the hopes and
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dreams that were there back back in the day. And yeah,
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looking forward to talking a little bit more about those
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in the show and understanding kind of yeah, how how
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far we've come, and are we going down down the
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right direction or not? And what might yeah, what might
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happen in the future.
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So what was your core your core background we're getting
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into the space.
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I'd say I've never had a specific specialty. When I
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studied at university, it was a Bachelor of Business Administration,
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it was general management. So we did a little bit
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of everything from accounting, to finance, to negotiation and to
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business ethics, to to to the financial markets, a lot
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of different.
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Different courses.
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And I guess that that becomes I guess a bit
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of a specialty in itself, kind of having an understanding
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of all of those things and how they operate and
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work together, which has served me over the past ten
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years in this industry where there's so many different things
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going on, so you need to have at least a
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pinch of knowledge in a lot of different.
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Areas to be able to get by.
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So i'd say my air of expertise was much more
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let's say, the commercial business side of.
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The world, or.
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Let's say then became more specific to this industry. And
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I started off trading as I mentioned, and then later
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on in my career it ended up being because I
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guess I speak English natively, and being in the Kirkti
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Valley and Zoog where it was German predominantly, I got
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into the kind of communication side. It was like, oh,
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look that guy speaks English, let's have him do the
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common marketing. I think that side was always very interesting
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because of the way in which community operates and interacts
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and engages in our industry, and so I did really
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enjoy that part, and then it ended up flurishing more
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into kind of the business development side of things, the
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people side of the business, and then slightly until let's
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say investor relations and kind of the financial part around
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it as well, because of course that is an equally
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important part. So I'd say a business being a mix
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of marketing, finance and.
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Bad amazing and what do you do now at storm?
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What do you guys focused on?
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Yeah, so I think over over the past ten years,
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a lot of things have changed. I do believe when
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it comes to the trust in the industry, we have
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gotten better at conveying what we are doing and why
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people should trust us, and that not every project is
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a rug bull or a scam, and that there are
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let's call them, larger institutions that are advocating for us
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now and so we don't just have to kind of
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shout and scream ourselves. There are larger microphones or kind
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of megaphones that are blasting the good world a good
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word of digital assets. However, I think five years ago
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when I founded Stone Partners, one of the main reasons
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for doing so was that trust in our industry that
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was established to further trust was being degraded. It was
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very difficult to find people that could support you with
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your project, from marketing, from legal, from a counting, from
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really any perspective. When you look at entrepreneurship as a
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bit of a puzzle, there are always a lot of
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missing pieces, and filling those with a trusted party that
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can actually just do what they say they can do
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was really not easy in this industry. So Storm Partners
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was founded on the basis of supporting founders to fill
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those missing pieces in a trusted manner, with the usp
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of us having an understanding of how all of those
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pieces interact together, and so that we could help you
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find the right pieces and execute on the business tasks
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and topics that you needed to achieve the objectives that
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you had. And yet queue to the fact that, as
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I'm alluded to before, was not necessarily let's say, a technical.
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Person.
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The desire was to create a firm that had similar
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ties to the McKinsey's, the ey S, you know, the
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Big four of the of the world, where we could
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help provide solutions to two challenges and and yeah, that's
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that's kind of where things things started. The slogan is
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we spark ideas to life. So we'd have you know,
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founders that also I guess we're predominantly techy that were
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really great at building technology, but weren't maybe so understanding
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of the scoping of Okay, well, I have this great
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you know tech piece, you know in exchange or wallet
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a protocol, but how can I get people to to
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actually start using this? How can I ensure that actually
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I stay out of jail for building this thing, because
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you know when you say k y C or a
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m L to kind of tech, you that like, okay,
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well is that is that a programming language? And so
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it was, Yeah, it was quite an adventure at the beginning,
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kind of building up that trust and yeah, now it's
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been five years, so quite quite a journey. Yeah.
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So, you know, keeping cryptal founders out of trouble is
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is is an important piece of what you do for sure,
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and there's a lot of that. I think there's a
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big gap in the industry, especially information gap for new
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founders that are coming in and that are not that
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do not have a financial background or financial services background,
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accounting background, where it would be exposed to compliance and
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regulatory frameworks of that sort, you know, and it's important
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that founders get the right guidance and mentorship to navigate
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through these you know, global regulatory frameworks that are different
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from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Generally, you know, they have these
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standard frameworks around the world that are generally acceptable, but
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from one jurisdiction to another, things change. And you know,
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when you do have an amazing piece of pick chnology
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and you're trying to build a user base, you can
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easily find yourself in trouble because you weren't aware of
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the compliance requirements of dealing with the clients in different jurisdictions.
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Yeah, I mean very a very straightforward example there, right,
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is that I was going to ask for an example,
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ye is that. Yeah, you know, they're they're very One
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of the beauty is the dual edge sort of the
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industry is that there are no they're very little barriused entry.
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You know, on pump dot fund, we could create a
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token in a few in a few minutes, if not
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a few seconds, but then there are implications to creating
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a certain certain asset, right, And you know, one of
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the the recurring themes that we had at a certain
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point was certain you know, let's call them call them djens,
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creating a token, launching it. And you know, when you're
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when you're maybe younger and a bit naive, and you're
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just launching a token. Maybe you don't even believe yourself
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it's going to be very success, just like you know, look,
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let me just push this onto the market, and it's
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it's a bit of a joke. And some of these
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token launchers did extremely well. Right, so they raised capital.
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Let's say they raised one hundred million dollars, right, or yeah,
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say even less. Let's say ten million, right, which is
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more realistic. They raised ten million, but they didn't have
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a company behind that. Okay, Well, if you raise money
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and accept money as an individual, you're reliable for personal
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income tax on that raise. However, you raised it in
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let's say, let's say Eth when Eth was at let's
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say four K, and then Eth goes down to two K,
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one k or whatever that might be, or you raised
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that money in a different digital asset, and then you
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end up not only having to pay the taxes on
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the amount and value.
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That you receive the assets at, so you.
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End up maybe even having a point where the let's
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say the asset that you have on your account is
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worth less than the tax that you're liable to pay,
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which can be in extreme liability towards the tax office,
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where you're like, well, I kind of did this thing.
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It was worth ten million, and when I actually should
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have had a company and put it in there, et cetera.
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And I received this money, I decided not to sell it,
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and they're like, yeah, it doesn't matter. You still receive
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that money. You're liable for that amount. And then they
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can get into a lot of a lot of troubles.
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And so I think here in that kind of specific example,
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there's a lot of creativity in the industry, but sometimes
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people don't necessarily know what they're dealing with and what
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they're messing with, their consequences and invocations to their actions,
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and sometimes they're like, yeah, we'll figure it out when
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it comes. Sometimes it comes and it really hits quite hard.
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So there are a lot of younger and very successful
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founders that we work with where we support them in navigating,
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let's say, the more traditional side of the world to
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ensure that they can be creative with the protocols and
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the things that they are developing and the projects that
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they have, whilst knowing that they don't have to continuously
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look behind their back and be like, okay, but am
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I doing something that is going to put me in jail?
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Or is it going to keep me indebted for life.
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And so that's something I think, I think you're muted.
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Especially with the institutionalization of the whole industry and the
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new criteria of investors and stakeholders and participants, you have
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no choice but to institutionalize your offer, right, even if
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you're offering retail services, products or tokens. But at some
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point as a company, as a project, you're you're now
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up against or not against, but you're you're you're in
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the midst of an institutionalization process within the industry. That
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transformation is taking place, and it's imminent right where institutions
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will pretty much own the majority of the industry, whether
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it's startups, whether it's infrastructure, whether it's the technology development.
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All that stuff is being run right right now by
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the most you know, prominent venture capitalists and private equity firms,
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you know, the likes of black Rock and other that
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are entering the space quite aggressively. I'm yet to see
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like big tech, you know, get involved in the tokenization
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angle of things. Yes they have blockchains, and yes they're involved,
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like whether it's Amazon or or IBM, Hyperlagera, all these
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other things that are there on the you know tech stack,
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but I haven't seen majors get into the tokenization stack.
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And I don't know how how how how you see
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that from from your perspective in terms of we see
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that you know, big consulting firms like you know, the
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Mackenzies of the world and kpmgs of the world are
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are aggressively going after clients within the digital asset space.
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Uh.
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And we see that VC's private equities and institutional banking
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are pouring money into the space as well, whether it's
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on a on a startup level, or or even creating
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treasuries or specific tokens. Right, But I haven't seen or
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maybe it's not as obvious big tech get into the
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token matters of business. How do you see that?
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Yeah?
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I think it comes down to some of the core
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principles of the of the technology itself. Do those large
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organizations want to or need to be transparent about the
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transactions that they are making internally? Transactions can be just
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units that say, of their supply chain. Do they really
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want people to know when they make a mistake on
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those things a mutability? Do they really want to want
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a data set or certain transaction is made that they're
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not able to internally reverse that in their system or
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change their excel sheet or whatever it is at a
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blink of an eye. And then does the centralization benefit
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a centralized organization today where certain decision making processes from
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a governance standpoint, certain tech infrastructure that they operate, and
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the the tech side. We could debate a bit more
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more because we've seen with cloud Flare and a few
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other let's say, vulnerabilities that it's brought down let's say,
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large centralized systems, which even let's say we're on Zoom
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today just last week on Friday, we couldn't we wouldn't
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have been able to have this meeting, so we'd have
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had to look for an alternative. So I think there
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are certain areas where blockchain technology can help. But due
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to the fact that a lot of these enterprises or
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big tech as you said, are inward facing, they don't
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maybe necessarily see that when we look at let's say
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some other institutions where let's say the financial applications of
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blockchain technology, as you mentioned, there's more money going into it.
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They are looking at the application of blockchain technology from
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an external perspective, right, They are thinking to themselves, Okay, well,
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if we are to replace like the traditional let's say
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cash rail that we have with blockchain technology, is it
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going to be more efficient for us to send money
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to parts of Africa, Asia, America, as etc. With regards
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to money flows. And they are testing that and they
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can see that it's actually it's working well and it
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may be more efficient to a certain extent. They're also
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following some of their consumer flows as well because they
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have customers that have a preference or have started using
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those more frequently. So they're like, Okay, we don't want
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to lose some of this total addressable market of the
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financial industry, so we need to lean in towards our
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consumer base as well because we are losing them. And
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so I think that's why they're a bit more pushy
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towards that, or at least they have the desire to
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go more into that standpoint. The think where there is
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that middle ground is maybe some of those financial institutions
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like JP Morgan and a few others that have created
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their own tokens for initially internal use, for them to
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be able to track and see where some of their
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let's say inter banking kind of flows are and the likes.
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But they were always created and conceptive with the ability
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or the desire to also open them out externally as well.
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And I think that comes with an underlying where JP
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Morgan and certain other banks are looking to become their
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own central banks in a way where they don't have
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to they don't have to abide by what the central
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bank is telling them with regards to certain capital requirements
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and certain let's say, different frameworks that they have to follow,
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where they can let's say, operate within their mini financial
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ecosystem themselves. And I think that could be a threat
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to what let's say, some of the modern ranking system
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has where some of these giants are becoming I don't
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know too big to fail is the right way to
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say it, but they are trying to replace certain economies,
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which I think in the coming years may create tension
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where today, even though a lot of the world's financial
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transactions money flow is done with US dollars, and even
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let's say some of those like JPM coin and some
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of the others have let's say, are pegged to the
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US dollar, USDT, USDC, et cetera. I think they are
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going to come under more and more scrutiny over the
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coming years for trying to bypass certain frameworks that let's say, well,
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it's standard money today, isn't isn't able to do like
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we can't. I can't print more US dollars, but I
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can print more USDT without having the underlying USD. I
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can create more jpm coin or storm coin or whatever
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it is without having the underlying No one is checking
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me on that, and so I think there's going to
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be a nuance, a nuanced there. And I can see
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already the US starting to think about those.
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Yeah, those dynamics, those dynamics in terms of auditing the
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underlying PEG, right or what these US these stable coins.
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Are are being backed by, in terms of basket of
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goods that these stable coins represent right there, There is
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probably a gap in the audit frameworks today for stable coins,
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which seem to be strengthening with recent regulatory frameworks around
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some jurisdictions.
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I know the UAE has issued its stable coin laws.
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The US is, you know, aggressively moving towards that and
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have made some progress recently. U s D T or
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tether had some heat you know, from from the market
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by their I think it was I don't know which
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rating institution was, SMP or movies. One of these rated
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great Tether's U S d T you know, downgraded their
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their rating, so they received some heat for that. But
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I guess, you know, the audit trail is very important
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and having you know, the blockchain to to to provide
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that efficiency is definitely something that financial services could find.
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I think, I think it's like a bit of a
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dual edged sword, right, I mean, it can be extremely
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positive if it's used in the right way, but it
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can be extremely detrimental if put in the wrong hands.
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In terms of if we're using.
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Blockchain toechnology, it's meant to be you know, transparent, decentralized
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and all these things great. But if you're using the
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technology and then you're obfuscating transactions, you have consensus on
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the network where you can actually move things around and
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it's not immutable and actually your decentralized nodes are actually
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all controlled by you, then you're kind of, yeah, putting
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a cloak of good, a trojan horse on something that
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is actually not positive for individuals. And you know, we're
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seeing that in some economies where actually using blockchain technology
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where actually you have the ability to see all of
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your citizens transactions and maybe you know, you're like, you know,
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I actually don't want my citizens to be buying a
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certain thing, or you know, I'm going to create a
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quota and limit them from spending X amount of money
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on certain products. And and oh, you know what, this
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person said something bad on on social media. Let's let's
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let's freeze their account and starve them for twenty four
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hours and see if they're going to say I think,
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I mean, that's maybe an extreme case, but I do
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see there. Again, blockchain technology is a tool like a hammer.
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You know, it can be used to build a house
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as it can be to whack someone on the head.
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And we just need to understand that innately. As a tool,
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it's it's it's it's neutral, you know, it's not it's
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not subjectively good, good or bad. It's it's in the
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hands of the user that that it become that can
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become one.
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That's kind of the issue that bitcoin, you know, the
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bitcoin community and bitcoin maximalists have with crypto right and
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and and general blockchain is that all these other coins
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are the majority of these other tokens, whether it's centralized tokens,
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or whether it's utility tokens or stable coins or whatnot.
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They're all centralized to a certain extent, and they all
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they all have that uh centralized governance frameworks that you know, uh,
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take away from the critical mission of what the blockchain
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or bitcoin was built for us to give that freedom
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and financial inclusion and the ability for people to to
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choose their wealth, right to have the freedom to choose
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their form of currency, their medium of exchange, their store
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of value, and their ability to build equitable communities and
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do cross border payments without intermediaries and be able to
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have that level of not freedom, but more more like
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liberty right. And I guess most of these tokens, whether
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it's jpm coin or other stable coins, whether or central
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bank digital currencies, at some point in time, they would,
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like you said, limit people's ability two have the freedom
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of choice on what to spend, on what to buy,
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how to live their life, what kind of lifestyles they're
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allowed to have or not allowed to have based on
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their status. And then you know, that just continues to
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kill the you know, the socioeconomic construct of the world
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that's already flawed could just become even more flawed because
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that equality of opportunity is being limited more and more
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by controlling currency more and more through these digital meets.
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So I think, you know, it's it's very interesting and
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I love your insights honestly across the board, on the
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consulting side, on the big tech adoption side, and on
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the socioeconomic side, and also the financial services side. But
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I want you to give us. You know, if if
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you had a minute to just give one message to
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the world of Web three and builders specifically, what would it.
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That's a very great Okay, more than a minute to
399
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give you. To give you the minute, I think the
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inherent properties that Web three brings to the world have
401
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a lot of quote unquote good within them. And if
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we look at a lot of the challenges that the
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physical and digital world are having today, I believe that
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blockchain technowledge she or at least the Web three industry
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00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:08.680
is trying to provide a solution to that. Where I
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00:27:08.759 --> 00:27:15.039
don't necessarily see other industries doing so. I think some
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of them are going down a search and rabbit hole or.
408
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Have a narrow view on where the world will will go.
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I think if you look at things such as digital inclusion,
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I mean, some of the most respective people on Twitter
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are you know, our monkeys or kittens or.
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Whatever it is.
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I mean, yeah, there is this like you know, you
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can be and anyone behind the computer as long as
415
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you're providing some for meritocratic value in.
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Either the code base or what you're saying.
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It's it's it's very it's a purest from from from
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that that that's that's standpoint. And I think a lot
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of the principles that we mentioned earlier related to blockchain technology,
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if they were established and brought into the way in
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which we look at digital experience today, it would allow
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for everyone to be I think, more free in the
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way in which they operate, operate.
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Their their lives. It would allow builders to.
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Co create in more lucrative manners, and to a certain extent,
426
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it would bring back, let's call it, the meritocratic democracy
427
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that maybe we once had the world. It's hard to
428
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say once had, because it's true that the world has
429
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always been dictated.
430
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By you know, the royals or the this.
431
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And it's never really had full, let's say, kind of
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a flat lined level of democracy. But I do think
433
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we are at a little bit of an existential crisis
434
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with certain larger powers that are going to have the
435
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ability to control a lot of.
436
00:29:31.799 --> 00:29:37.079
Our human behaviors and that we are already being.
437
00:29:36.920 --> 00:29:40.480
Manipulated into making a lot of decision making when we
438
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understand that there are only let's say, a very few
439
00:29:43.279 --> 00:29:46.640
amount of people and companies that own a lot of
440
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all the other companies that we know today, and that
441
00:29:49.640 --> 00:29:52.359
there are few companies that are making some of those
442
00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:56.440
decisions on like how the algorithms are reacting to the
443
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way in which we're doing certain things, et cetera. And
444
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we are, you know, as let's say the general public,
445
00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:06.440
the masses kind of bystanders to that, right, we're just
446
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kind of getting you know, hit hit by it. And
447
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I think the web three industry is a way two
448
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kind of have a stand. And I don't say it's
449
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like to fight back because I don't think there's necessarily
450
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like we don't necessarily want to be opposing factor to
451
00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:31.920
it and and creative fight here, but it's I think
452
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it's a great alternative for those people that believe in
453
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the future that is more free rather than one that
454
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is more more controlled, where there's a perceived freedom, but
455
00:30:49.319 --> 00:30:53.039
actually we're only going to see a movie because an
456
00:30:53.079 --> 00:30:57.240
algorithm made us believe that. Influences said that it was
457
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a great movie, and this rating agency said that it
458
00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:03.359
was well rated, But all of those things were actually
459
00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:06.960
controlled by the same party and interpaid, et cetera.
460
00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:08.920
So we start.
461
00:31:08.759 --> 00:31:12.079
Believing in the narrative that we're told to believe, and
462
00:31:12.119 --> 00:31:15.480
that seems like a narrative that's very similar to the
463
00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:20.599
matrix and it does feel like it is the direction
464
00:31:20.720 --> 00:31:25.680
that we're going in. And so yeah, hopefully the silver
465
00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:29.400
lining tool of that can be this technology that can
466
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:33.039
allow us to pop our head above the surface. So yeah,
467
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:34.559
I love it.
468
00:31:35.279 --> 00:31:40.440
This is very well said for as I appreciate those insights,
469
00:31:41.119 --> 00:31:45.480
and you know, you hit a very sensitive spot, you know,
470
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for me, because we share the same perception on life,
471
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and it seems so based on those beautiful last words
472
00:31:55.720 --> 00:32:01.119
which just mentioned, And you know, I believe that we
473
00:32:01.359 --> 00:32:07.680
are living sort of a matrix style life. But I
474
00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:11.640
also believe that within the systemic framework that we live
475
00:32:11.680 --> 00:32:14.880
in globally, because we're whether we like it or not,
476
00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:20.079
globalization exists and it's taken over our lives and we
477
00:32:20.200 --> 00:32:27.279
all live predominantly online, which means we're all global, and
478
00:32:27.799 --> 00:32:32.880
at some point something came along, such as Web three technology,
479
00:32:33.640 --> 00:32:39.000
to allow that alternative to provide an inclusive, globalized life
480
00:32:39.759 --> 00:32:45.359
that everyone can participate in, and it rewards people who
481
00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:51.559
build and participate and also punishes those who in some way,
482
00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:56.160
shape or form, who are not properly using the technology.
483
00:32:57.799 --> 00:33:05.279
And I think that's something that definitely builds an inclusive life.
484
00:33:05.599 --> 00:33:08.640
You can escape matrix. You have to learn the algorithm
485
00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:11.720
and know how to maneuver within it and be able
486
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to have that different perception because everything, at the end
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of the day is in your thought process and how
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you perceive life. So that said, thank you for us
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for joining Drilling into Crypto. Hope to speak again soon
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and let's keep building.
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Thanks for drilling into Crypto with us. If you enjoyed
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our discussion, please give us a like on your podcast
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00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:38.160
app or social media and don't forget to subscribe. Join
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us next time when we will deliver more perspectives on crypto,
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asset mining, energy markets, and the global financial revolution.
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Welcome to Drilling into Crypto. I'm your host, Mohammed al MASRII.
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Every week I speak to the leaders that are driving
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the global financial revolution. Drilling into Crypto puts the spotlight
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on the importance of crypto assets on energy markets and
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on global monetary policy.
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Great.
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I have Schiraz Ahmed here from Storm. Thank you for
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joining Drilling into Crypto.
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My pleasure, I seemaay Uh Saraz.
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I like to ask you about yourself, you know, I
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always like to start off by getting the guest to
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give us, you know, a background on themselves and their
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journey and how they ventured into the space.
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Yeah, sure, pleasure. So, yeah, thank you, thanks for having
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me on the show. I'm being involved in the last
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space now for the past ten years. I guess before
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it was called a digital asset and it was just
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really crypto and kind of old coin trading. I got
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an involved in the early days at university actually personally,
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just through through trading, and then I think quote the
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bug on the basis of a lot of the innovation
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that was happening in this industry, I'd say it was
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beyond the financial side of the innovation. I think when
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it comes to blockchain technology and it being let's say,
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a relatively simple data management system that allows for a
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few components of transparency, immutability, decentralization. One of the key
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areas for me that was exciting was the tokenization of
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assets and just the ability, you know, for anyone anywhere
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to own anything.
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And that was a bit of.
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A pipe dream, I think, back in the day, But
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now it's becoming a bit more of reality. However, I
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think we're still far from some of the hopes and
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dreams that were there back back in the day. And yeah,
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looking forward to talking a little bit more about those
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in the show and understanding kind of yeah, how how
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far we've come, and are we going down down the
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right direction or not? And what might yeah, what might
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happen in the future.
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So what was your core your core background we're getting
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into the space.
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I'd say I've never had a specific specialty. When I
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studied at university, it was a Bachelor of Business Administration,
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it was general management. So we did a little bit
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of everything from accounting, to finance, to negotiation and to
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business ethics, to to to the financial markets, a lot
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of different.
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Different courses.
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And I guess that that becomes I guess a bit
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of a specialty in itself, kind of having an understanding
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of all of those things and how they operate and
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work together, which has served me over the past ten
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years in this industry where there's so many different things
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going on, so you need to have at least a
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pinch of knowledge in a lot of different.
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Areas to be able to get by.
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So i'd say my air of expertise was much more
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let's say, the commercial business side of.
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The world, or.
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Let's say then became more specific to this industry. And
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I started off trading as I mentioned, and then later
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on in my career it ended up being because I
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guess I speak English natively, and being in the Kirkti
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Valley and Zoog where it was German predominantly, I got
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into the kind of communication side. It was like, oh,
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look that guy speaks English, let's have him do the
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common marketing. I think that side was always very interesting
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because of the way in which community operates and interacts
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and engages in our industry, and so I did really
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enjoy that part, and then it ended up flurishing more
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into kind of the business development side of things, the
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people side of the business, and then slightly until let's
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say investor relations and kind of the financial part around
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it as well, because of course that is an equally
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important part. So I'd say a business being a mix
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of marketing, finance and.
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Bad amazing and what do you do now at storm?
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What do you guys focused on?
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Yeah, so I think over over the past ten years,
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a lot of things have changed. I do believe when
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it comes to the trust in the industry, we have
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gotten better at conveying what we are doing and why
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people should trust us, and that not every project is
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a rug bull or a scam, and that there are
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let's call them, larger institutions that are advocating for us
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now and so we don't just have to kind of
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shout and scream ourselves. There are larger microphones or kind
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of megaphones that are blasting the good world a good
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word of digital assets. However, I think five years ago
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when I founded Stone Partners, one of the main reasons
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for doing so was that trust in our industry that
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was established to further trust was being degraded. It was
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very difficult to find people that could support you with
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your project, from marketing, from legal, from a counting, from
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really any perspective. When you look at entrepreneurship as a
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bit of a puzzle, there are always a lot of
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missing pieces, and filling those with a trusted party that
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can actually just do what they say they can do
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was really not easy in this industry. So Storm Partners
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was founded on the basis of supporting founders to fill
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those missing pieces in a trusted manner, with the usp
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of us having an understanding of how all of those
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pieces interact together, and so that we could help you
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find the right pieces and execute on the business tasks
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and topics that you needed to achieve the objectives that
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you had. And yet queue to the fact that, as
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I'm alluded to before, was not necessarily let's say, a technical.
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Person.
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The desire was to create a firm that had similar
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ties to the McKinsey's, the ey S, you know, the
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Big four of the of the world, where we could
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help provide solutions to two challenges and and yeah, that's
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that's kind of where things things started. The slogan is
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we spark ideas to life. So we'd have you know,
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founders that also I guess we're predominantly techy that were
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really great at building technology, but weren't maybe so understanding
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of the scoping of Okay, well, I have this great
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you know tech piece, you know in exchange or wallet
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a protocol, but how can I get people to to
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actually start using this? How can I ensure that actually
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I stay out of jail for building this thing, because
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you know when you say k y C or a
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m L to kind of tech, you that like, okay,
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well is that is that a programming language? And so
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it was, Yeah, it was quite an adventure at the beginning,
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kind of building up that trust and yeah, now it's
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been five years, so quite quite a journey. Yeah.
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So, you know, keeping cryptal founders out of trouble is
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is is an important piece of what you do for sure,
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and there's a lot of that. I think there's a
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big gap in the industry, especially information gap for new
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founders that are coming in and that are not that
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do not have a financial background or financial services background,
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accounting background, where it would be exposed to compliance and
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regulatory frameworks of that sort, you know, and it's important
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that founders get the right guidance and mentorship to navigate
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through these you know, global regulatory frameworks that are different
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from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Generally, you know, they have these
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standard frameworks around the world that are generally acceptable, but
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from one jurisdiction to another, things change. And you know,
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when you do have an amazing piece of pick chnology
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and you're trying to build a user base, you can
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easily find yourself in trouble because you weren't aware of
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the compliance requirements of dealing with the clients in different jurisdictions.
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Yeah, I mean very a very straightforward example there, right,
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is that I was going to ask for an example,
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ye is that. Yeah, you know, they're they're very One
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of the beauty is the dual edge sort of the
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industry is that there are no they're very little barriused entry.
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You know, on pump dot fund, we could create a
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token in a few in a few minutes, if not
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a few seconds, but then there are implications to creating
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a certain certain asset, right, And you know, one of
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the the recurring themes that we had at a certain
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point was certain you know, let's call them call them djens,
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creating a token, launching it. And you know, when you're
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when you're maybe younger and a bit naive, and you're
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just launching a token. Maybe you don't even believe yourself
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it's going to be very success, just like you know, look,
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let me just push this onto the market, and it's
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it's a bit of a joke. And some of these
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token launchers did extremely well. Right, so they raised capital.
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Let's say they raised one hundred million dollars, right, or yeah,
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say even less. Let's say ten million, right, which is
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more realistic. They raised ten million, but they didn't have
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a company behind that. Okay, Well, if you raise money
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and accept money as an individual, you're reliable for personal
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income tax on that raise. However, you raised it in
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let's say, let's say Eth when Eth was at let's
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say four K, and then Eth goes down to two K,
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one k or whatever that might be, or you raised
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that money in a different digital asset, and then you
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end up not only having to pay the taxes on
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the amount and value.
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That you receive the assets at, so you.
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End up maybe even having a point where the let's
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say the asset that you have on your account is
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worth less than the tax that you're liable to pay,
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which can be in extreme liability towards the tax office,
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where you're like, well, I kind of did this thing.
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It was worth ten million, and when I actually should
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have had a company and put it in there, et cetera.
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And I received this money, I decided not to sell it,
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and they're like, yeah, it doesn't matter. You still receive
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that money. You're liable for that amount. And then they
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can get into a lot of a lot of troubles.
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And so I think here in that kind of specific example,
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there's a lot of creativity in the industry, but sometimes
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people don't necessarily know what they're dealing with and what
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they're messing with, their consequences and invocations to their actions,
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and sometimes they're like, yeah, we'll figure it out when
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it comes. Sometimes it comes and it really hits quite hard.
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So there are a lot of younger and very successful
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founders that we work with where we support them in navigating,
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let's say, the more traditional side of the world to
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ensure that they can be creative with the protocols and
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the things that they are developing and the projects that
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they have, whilst knowing that they don't have to continuously
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look behind their back and be like, okay, but am
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I doing something that is going to put me in jail?
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Or is it going to keep me indebted for life.
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And so that's something I think, I think you're muted.
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Especially with the institutionalization of the whole industry and the
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new criteria of investors and stakeholders and participants, you have
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no choice but to institutionalize your offer, right, even if
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you're offering retail services, products or tokens. But at some
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point as a company, as a project, you're you're now
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up against or not against, but you're you're you're in
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the midst of an institutionalization process within the industry. That
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transformation is taking place, and it's imminent right where institutions
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will pretty much own the majority of the industry, whether
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it's startups, whether it's infrastructure, whether it's the technology development.
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All that stuff is being run right right now by
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the most you know, prominent venture capitalists and private equity firms,
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you know, the likes of black Rock and other that
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are entering the space quite aggressively. I'm yet to see
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like big tech, you know, get involved in the tokenization
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angle of things. Yes they have blockchains, and yes they're involved,
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like whether it's Amazon or or IBM, Hyperlagera, all these
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other things that are there on the you know tech stack,
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but I haven't seen majors get into the tokenization stack.
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And I don't know how how how how you see
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that from from your perspective in terms of we see
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that you know, big consulting firms like you know, the
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Mackenzies of the world and kpmgs of the world are
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are aggressively going after clients within the digital asset space.
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Uh.
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And we see that VC's private equities and institutional banking
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are pouring money into the space as well, whether it's
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on a on a startup level, or or even creating
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treasuries or specific tokens. Right, But I haven't seen or
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maybe it's not as obvious big tech get into the
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token matters of business. How do you see that?
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Yeah?
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I think it comes down to some of the core
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principles of the of the technology itself. Do those large
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organizations want to or need to be transparent about the
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transactions that they are making internally? Transactions can be just
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units that say, of their supply chain. Do they really
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want people to know when they make a mistake on
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those things a mutability? Do they really want to want
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a data set or certain transaction is made that they're
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not able to internally reverse that in their system or
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change their excel sheet or whatever it is at a
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blink of an eye. And then does the centralization benefit
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a centralized organization today where certain decision making processes from
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a governance standpoint, certain tech infrastructure that they operate, and
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the the tech side. We could debate a bit more
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more because we've seen with cloud Flare and a few
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other let's say, vulnerabilities that it's brought down let's say,
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large centralized systems, which even let's say we're on Zoom
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today just last week on Friday, we couldn't we wouldn't
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have been able to have this meeting, so we'd have
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had to look for an alternative. So I think there
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are certain areas where blockchain technology can help. But due
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to the fact that a lot of these enterprises or
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big tech as you said, are inward facing, they don't
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maybe necessarily see that when we look at let's say
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some other institutions where let's say the financial applications of
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blockchain technology, as you mentioned, there's more money going into it.
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They are looking at the application of blockchain technology from
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an external perspective, right, They are thinking to themselves, Okay, well,
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if we are to replace like the traditional let's say
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cash rail that we have with blockchain technology, is it
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going to be more efficient for us to send money
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to parts of Africa, Asia, America, as etc. With regards
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to money flows. And they are testing that and they
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can see that it's actually it's working well and it
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may be more efficient to a certain extent. They're also
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following some of their consumer flows as well because they
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have customers that have a preference or have started using
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those more frequently. So they're like, Okay, we don't want
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to lose some of this total addressable market of the
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financial industry, so we need to lean in towards our
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consumer base as well because we are losing them. And
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so I think that's why they're a bit more pushy
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towards that, or at least they have the desire to
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go more into that standpoint. The think where there is
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that middle ground is maybe some of those financial institutions
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like JP Morgan and a few others that have created
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their own tokens for initially internal use, for them to
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be able to track and see where some of their
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let's say inter banking kind of flows are and the likes.
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But they were always created and conceptive with the ability
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or the desire to also open them out externally as well.
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And I think that comes with an underlying where JP
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Morgan and certain other banks are looking to become their
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own central banks in a way where they don't have
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to they don't have to abide by what the central
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bank is telling them with regards to certain capital requirements
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and certain let's say, different frameworks that they have to follow,
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where they can let's say, operate within their mini financial
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ecosystem themselves. And I think that could be a threat
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to what let's say, some of the modern ranking system
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has where some of these giants are becoming I don't
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know too big to fail is the right way to
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say it, but they are trying to replace certain economies,
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which I think in the coming years may create tension
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where today, even though a lot of the world's financial
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transactions money flow is done with US dollars, and even
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let's say some of those like JPM coin and some
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of the others have let's say, are pegged to the
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US dollar, USDT, USDC, et cetera. I think they are
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going to come under more and more scrutiny over the
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coming years for trying to bypass certain frameworks that let's say, well,
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it's standard money today, isn't isn't able to do like
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we can't. I can't print more US dollars, but I
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can print more USDT without having the underlying USD. I
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can create more jpm coin or storm coin or whatever
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it is without having the underlying No one is checking
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me on that, and so I think there's going to
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be a nuance, a nuanced there. And I can see
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already the US starting to think about those.
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Yeah, those dynamics, those dynamics in terms of auditing the
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underlying PEG, right or what these US these stable coins.
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Are are being backed by, in terms of basket of
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goods that these stable coins represent right there, There is
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probably a gap in the audit frameworks today for stable coins,
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which seem to be strengthening with recent regulatory frameworks around
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some jurisdictions.
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I know the UAE has issued its stable coin laws.
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The US is, you know, aggressively moving towards that and
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have made some progress recently. U s D T or
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tether had some heat you know, from from the market
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by their I think it was I don't know which
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rating institution was, SMP or movies. One of these rated
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great Tether's U S d T you know, downgraded their
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their rating, so they received some heat for that. But
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I guess, you know, the audit trail is very important
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and having you know, the blockchain to to to provide
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that efficiency is definitely something that financial services could find.
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I think, I think it's like a bit of a
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dual edged sword, right, I mean, it can be extremely
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positive if it's used in the right way, but it
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can be extremely detrimental if put in the wrong hands.
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In terms of if we're using.
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Blockchain toechnology, it's meant to be you know, transparent, decentralized
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and all these things great. But if you're using the
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technology and then you're obfuscating transactions, you have consensus on
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the network where you can actually move things around and
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it's not immutable and actually your decentralized nodes are actually
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all controlled by you, then you're kind of, yeah, putting
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a cloak of good, a trojan horse on something that
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is actually not positive for individuals. And you know, we're
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seeing that in some economies where actually using blockchain technology
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where actually you have the ability to see all of
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your citizens transactions and maybe you know, you're like, you know,
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I actually don't want my citizens to be buying a
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certain thing, or you know, I'm going to create a
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quota and limit them from spending X amount of money
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on certain products. And and oh, you know what, this
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person said something bad on on social media. Let's let's
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let's freeze their account and starve them for twenty four
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hours and see if they're going to say I think,
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I mean, that's maybe an extreme case, but I do
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see there. Again, blockchain technology is a tool like a hammer.
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You know, it can be used to build a house
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as it can be to whack someone on the head.
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And we just need to understand that innately. As a tool,
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it's it's it's it's neutral, you know, it's not it's
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not subjectively good, good or bad. It's it's in the
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hands of the user that that it become that can
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become one.
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That's kind of the issue that bitcoin, you know, the
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bitcoin community and bitcoin maximalists have with crypto right and
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and and general blockchain is that all these other coins
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are the majority of these other tokens, whether it's centralized tokens,
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or whether it's utility tokens or stable coins or whatnot.
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They're all centralized to a certain extent, and they all
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they all have that uh centralized governance frameworks that you know, uh,
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take away from the critical mission of what the blockchain
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or bitcoin was built for us to give that freedom
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and financial inclusion and the ability for people to to
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choose their wealth, right to have the freedom to choose
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their form of currency, their medium of exchange, their store
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of value, and their ability to build equitable communities and
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do cross border payments without intermediaries and be able to
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have that level of not freedom, but more more like
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liberty right. And I guess most of these tokens, whether
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it's jpm coin or other stable coins, whether or central
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bank digital currencies, at some point in time, they would,
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like you said, limit people's ability two have the freedom
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of choice on what to spend, on what to buy,
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how to live their life, what kind of lifestyles they're
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allowed to have or not allowed to have based on
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their status. And then you know, that just continues to
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kill the you know, the socioeconomic construct of the world
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that's already flawed could just become even more flawed because
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that equality of opportunity is being limited more and more
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by controlling currency more and more through these digital meets.
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So I think, you know, it's it's very interesting and
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I love your insights honestly across the board, on the
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consulting side, on the big tech adoption side, and on
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the socioeconomic side, and also the financial services side. But
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I want you to give us. You know, if if
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you had a minute to just give one message to
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the world of Web three and builders specifically, what would it.
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That's a very great Okay, more than a minute to
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give you. To give you the minute, I think the
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inherent properties that Web three brings to the world have
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a lot of quote unquote good within them. And if
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we look at a lot of the challenges that the
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physical and digital world are having today, I believe that
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blockchain technowledge she or at least the Web three industry
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is trying to provide a solution to that. Where I
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don't necessarily see other industries doing so. I think some
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of them are going down a search and rabbit hole or.
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Have a narrow view on where the world will will go.
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I think if you look at things such as digital inclusion,
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I mean, some of the most respective people on Twitter
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are you know, our monkeys or kittens or.
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Whatever it is.
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I mean, yeah, there is this like you know, you
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can be and anyone behind the computer as long as
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you're providing some for meritocratic value in.
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Either the code base or what you're saying.
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It's it's it's very it's a purest from from from
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that that that's that's standpoint. And I think a lot
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of the principles that we mentioned earlier related to blockchain technology,
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if they were established and brought into the way in
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which we look at digital experience today, it would allow
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for everyone to be I think, more free in the
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way in which they operate, operate.
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Their their lives. It would allow builders to.
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Co create in more lucrative manners, and to a certain extent,
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it would bring back, let's call it, the meritocratic democracy
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that maybe we once had the world. It's hard to
428
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say once had, because it's true that the world has
429
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always been dictated.
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By you know, the royals or the this.
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And it's never really had full, let's say, kind of
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a flat lined level of democracy. But I do think
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we are at a little bit of an existential crisis
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with certain larger powers that are going to have the
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ability to control a lot of.
436
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Our human behaviors and that we are already being.
437
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Manipulated into making a lot of decision making when we
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understand that there are only let's say, a very few
439
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amount of people and companies that own a lot of
440
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all the other companies that we know today, and that
441
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there are few companies that are making some of those
442
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decisions on like how the algorithms are reacting to the
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way in which we're doing certain things, et cetera. And
444
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we are, you know, as let's say the general public,
445
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the masses kind of bystanders to that, right, we're just
446
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kind of getting you know, hit hit by it. And
447
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I think the web three industry is a way two
448
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kind of have a stand. And I don't say it's
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like to fight back because I don't think there's necessarily
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like we don't necessarily want to be opposing factor to
451
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it and and creative fight here, but it's I think
452
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it's a great alternative for those people that believe in
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the future that is more free rather than one that
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is more more controlled, where there's a perceived freedom, but
455
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actually we're only going to see a movie because an
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00:30:53.079 --> 00:30:57.240
algorithm made us believe that. Influences said that it was
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a great movie, and this rating agency said that it
458
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was well rated, But all of those things were actually
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controlled by the same party and interpaid, et cetera.
460
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So we start.
461
00:31:08.759 --> 00:31:12.079
Believing in the narrative that we're told to believe, and
462
00:31:12.119 --> 00:31:15.480
that seems like a narrative that's very similar to the
463
00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:20.599
matrix and it does feel like it is the direction
464
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that we're going in. And so yeah, hopefully the silver
465
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lining tool of that can be this technology that can
466
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allow us to pop our head above the surface. So yeah,
467
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:34.559
I love it.
468
00:31:35.279 --> 00:31:40.440
This is very well said for as I appreciate those insights,
469
00:31:41.119 --> 00:31:45.480
and you know, you hit a very sensitive spot, you know,
470
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for me, because we share the same perception on life,
471
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and it seems so based on those beautiful last words
472
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which just mentioned, And you know, I believe that we
473
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are living sort of a matrix style life. But I
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also believe that within the systemic framework that we live
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00:32:11.680 --> 00:32:14.880
in globally, because we're whether we like it or not,
476
00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:20.079
globalization exists and it's taken over our lives and we
477
00:32:20.200 --> 00:32:27.279
all live predominantly online, which means we're all global, and
478
00:32:27.799 --> 00:32:32.880
at some point something came along, such as Web three technology,
479
00:32:33.640 --> 00:32:39.000
to allow that alternative to provide an inclusive, globalized life
480
00:32:39.759 --> 00:32:45.359
that everyone can participate in, and it rewards people who
481
00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:51.559
build and participate and also punishes those who in some way,
482
00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:56.160
shape or form, who are not properly using the technology.
483
00:32:57.799 --> 00:33:05.279
And I think that's something that definitely builds an inclusive life.
484
00:33:05.599 --> 00:33:08.640
You can escape matrix. You have to learn the algorithm
485
00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:11.720
and know how to maneuver within it and be able
486
00:33:11.759 --> 00:33:16.119
to have that different perception because everything, at the end
487
00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:19.839
of the day is in your thought process and how
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00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:23.680
you perceive life. So that said, thank you for us
489
00:33:23.880 --> 00:33:27.720
for joining Drilling into Crypto. Hope to speak again soon
490
00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:29.759
and let's keep building.
491
00:33:29.839 --> 00:33:32.279
Thanks for drilling into Crypto with us. If you enjoyed
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00:33:32.319 --> 00:33:34.720
our discussion, please give us a like on your podcast
493
00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:38.160
app or social media and don't forget to subscribe. Join
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00:33:38.240 --> 00:33:41.759
us next time when we will deliver more perspectives on crypto,
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00:33:41.799 --> 00:33:45.400
asset mining, energy markets, and the global financial revolution.
