speaker-0: Welcome to Doing Good by Doing Better, the podcast for world shapers, not spectators. I'm Margaret Rogers, CEO of Pariveda, a professional services firm that helps make potential possible for our clients. On this show, I talk with founders, executives, and innovators who share hard lessons, bold ideas, and real strategies for purpose-driven growth. This episode will offer practical insights you can use this week to solve forward, because at Pariveda, We know that doing good only endures when we keep learning how to do better. Welcome to Doing Good by Doing Better. Today I'm joined by Wendy Sherry of Cigna Healthcare, CEO of Global Health Benefits, for a conversation on leadership, inclusive health, and the business case for investing in people. Wendy shares her path from accounting to executive leadership and why employers play an enormous role in making sure every individual gets what they need from the system. As Wendy says, it's not only the right thing to do for the person. It's also a really good thing to do for your business. Let's jump in. Alrighty. Well, Wendy, thank you so much for joining us today. I really appreciate you being on the show.
speaker-1: I am excited to be here with you, Margaret.
speaker-0: Yeah. I want to start a little bit about your career. Cause your career is just so like I would categorize it as unconventional in terms of that path. You started off in the world of accounting to CPA and then moved on to healthcare, and you're making such a huge impact on healthcare itself. Could you talk a little bit about your career journey?
speaker-1: Absolutely. And you know, I'd like to say that I had it all planned out, but that would definitely not be a truthful statement. And when I started my career was definitely not in the age of AI. We were just starting to use things like email. And I remember checking it maybe once a week at best. So it seems like certainly forever ago. But when you talk about my career and my career journey, so as you referenced, I started out my career as an accountant or CPA. So graduated from school. and with an accounting degree. And I would absolutely say that I took a very traditional path for someone with my degree and pedigree at the time. I joined one of at the time it was one of the big five accounting firms. And that was a wonderful experience for me because really from the beginning of my career, what I learned that I enjoyed was learning different perspectives around different businesses. Because as an auditor, that's what I was doing. I was Every few months going from one client to another client to a different industry to a different set of problems. And I realized early on that that was something that I enjoyed, that perspective, that change, et cetera. About five years into that career, I realized that it wasn't that I wasn't enjoying my experiences and didn't love my company, but when I thought about what I wanted for myself, both work and life. I decided it was time for me to take a change and to go find a employer that I could build a career and at some point build a family. And that actually took me to Cygna. And I was very fortunate in my journey of looking for a new company to candidly stumble into our financial leadership program. But it really spoke to me in terms of what I said earlier around that variety and getting different experiences because the financial leadership program was a rotational program. So it gave me the opportunity to be put into different businesses, to learn different aspects of how we operate, to meet all different types of people. So that was certainly something that was very appealing to me. When I said I didn't script my career, I never would have said I'm going to a healthcare company. even in my days of doing audit, I had never worked on a client in the healthcare industry. But I came to understand the mission of Cygna very early on in the interview process. And that mission coupled with the rotational experience was enough for me to say, I'm gonna try this. And that turned into a 30 year career. And that career journey has taken me to many different places. I often say I've had probably five or more different careers inside of the same company. So I've had the privilege of being able to work at a company that I believe very strongly about our mission, but I've been able to contribute in so many different ways, whether it early on in the financial capacities, then moving into our clinical operations, where I saw firsthand. The really good work that our clinical teams do when people are going through some very trying times. I spent a good chunk of my career in our product or solutions organization really understanding what client and customer value and how we actually bring solutions into market. And then a little bit later in my career, I moved into market-facing roles where I led the Connecticut market. I was the market president for Connecticut, and more recently. found myself in our international division where I am now leading our global health benefits business.
speaker-0: That is such an amazing career path. Just for our listeners who are unfamiliar, talk a little bit more about the mission. Like what is the mission and what made it resonate with you?
speaker-1: Yeah. So in a nutshell, our mission is to improve the health and vitality of those we serve. So each and every day, right, we seek to do just that, to ensure that each individual is is living their best life, right? Not only their physical health, but their mental health, their support system, so that individuals can show up in their home life and their work life as their best possible self.
speaker-0: Wow, there's so many wonderful things that are in there. And I w know one of the things that you are very passionate about is the idea of inclusive healthcare. What does that really mean to you in practice?
speaker-1: Yeah. So if you actually step back and just think about that mission statement that I said a moment ago. Right. Prove health and vitality of you as an individual. So when you think about the notion of inclusive health, it's about ensuring that every individual in the population is getting the health care and healthcare solutions that they need to again achieve that health and vitality. So that to me is what inclusive means. It's that everyone gets what they need from the system.
speaker-0: It's a great one, by the way. And would imagine that the barriers are different, especially as you're serving a global role. Right. And so what are the barriers that you are trying to tackle that actually makes an impact and moves the needle?
speaker-1: So there are several barriers, especially when you're thinking about global mobility and people who are living and working outside their home countries, we're serving in hundreds of different countries around the globe. So I'd start with employers. So there are some barriers in terms of employers understanding and appreciating the importance of offering certain types of benefits to again achieve that inclusive health care. So that's one barrier that I actually believe we're doing a really good job of. breaking down those barriers because more and more employers are seeking to coverage things that historically maybe weren't part of what I'd call the core package. Second, though, we also have to navigate very carefully cultural and regulatory barriers as well. We have to respect that not all cultures are where I live in the US, and that there are stri different norms and different barriers to some of the inclusive healthcare. So what is normal and what would be offered here in the United States may not be something that is well received or culturally accepted in a different country around the globe. And that also creates barriers of access because sometimes an individual can't get to a doctor that can help him or her with their healthcare needs.
speaker-0: How do you think about that as it relates to women's health too? Because that's a really good example of where cultural norms are very different from country to country. So as a leader from a global level, how do you think through that?
speaker-1: So it really starts with driving the education because a lot of these things or these health conditions where we're just sort of starting to get into this zone of offering, right? So if you think about things like menopause, perimenopause, fertility, et cetera, it starts with education and awareness, right? Because it is many of those topics that I just talked about, people are under educated. in terms of what it is. So it starts with education and then it starts or the next phase I should say is making sure that folks understand what is available. And again, there we are making strides in terms of creating solutions, partnering with third parties, especially third parties that are very attuned to what are the cultural norms, the regulatory environments, because it is really important that we navigate those things very carefully so that we keep people safe. and ensure that they're able to get the access to care that they need.
speaker-0: Yeah. You've also talked about how you feel like employers are a core part of that strategy. You actually just mentioned it as you were talking about the mission itself. Talk a little bit more about why that perspective.
speaker-1: So employers play an enormous role in ensuring that individuals are getting those inclusive health benefits and again making sure that every individual is getting the care that they need for their particular situations. And so one of the things that we try to do is connect the importance of that, because if you think about again the importance of ensuring that people are getting the health benefits that they need to be their best self, connecting that to The employers' business objectives and their own missions. Because at the end of the day, if people aren't their best selves, they're not bringing their best selves to work. And therefore, they're not performing at the top of their game. And if you have individuals in your organization that are all performing at the top of their game, individual companies are obviously going to have better bottom line results. So we do try to make that connection between it's not just Hey, this is a good thing to do for the person. It is a good thing to do for the person, but it's also a really good thing to do for your business.
speaker-0: Yeah. That's a hundred percent true. I one of the things that you were talking about when we first met, it was about women's health. That is a topic that's near and dear to my heart. As you were describing it, I ha went through a very, very similar situation where there's not a lot of information out there. Situated in the United States, you would think that you would have access to a lot of information. And I found myself doing what other women do, which is go to WhatsApp and finding communities, which is crazy. To think that you're gonna go to WhatsApp and have these conversations. So talk a little bit about women's health as why it's so important to you right now.
speaker-1: So it goes to back to what you just said a moment ago, right? Where as a female am I going to get information around understanding what's going on with me? Right. So if you kind of just step back for a second and think about some of the statistics, right? 50% on average of the workforce are female. 50%. And at any given time, about 20% of the overall population. Is going through something like menopause or perimenopause. And 100% of those females that I referenced in the 50%, if they're fortunate enough to get to the age, right, where perimenopause and men and menopause happens, they're likely going to have some symptoms. But so often people don't understand what's going on. They're not even recognizing, ⁓ that brain fog or the sluggishness that I have, that's actually attached to. the onset of perimenopause or menopause. So what I'm trying to do as a female leader, a female executive, is to normalize the conversation so that individuals can look at leaders like me or other women in the organization and say, okay, I'm not alone. And they can actually seek information from people in their own organization in addition to some of the communities that you've referenced outside of their organization. So to me it's about, you know, I'm trying to do my part to drive that better awareness so that people can get better educated, so that people can get diagnosed for some of these health conditions.
speaker-0: You know, it's interesting you say that too, because it's not just the education of women, but also of men, all people about this topic. I had a colleague of mine tell me one time that she went through a hot flash in the middle of a presentation and they thought that she was embarrassed. And she's like, No, I'm just this is not what this is. And they don't really talk about it. I know you believe that it really requires sustained leadership though to make this kind of change. And How do you energize that? Because it's really considered a specialty topic right now, but to your point, 50% of our population is going to encounter this if they reach that age.
speaker-1: Yeah, so there's a couple things in what you said in that question that I want to go back to. So I would be very remiss if I didn't recognize the importance of men in this conversation. So up until this point in our conversation, I've been talking a lot about women and women in leadership and all of that, but it is so critical that we don't walk away from this conversation thinking this is just a women's issue, that men are equally critical to ensuring that we achieve this inclusive health care. And in fact, in some of the solutions that we are delivering into the marketplace, we actually see in many cases more men interacting with some of our solutions that we're offering. So not only is it critical that it's men and women in the conversation and working to get the inclusive health care, but we are actually seeing a lot of really good engagement from our male colleagues and population as well. And again, some of these health topics that I'm talking about don't just impact females, right? Hormonal health is absolutely a topic that impacts men as well as women. So I just wanted to make sure that I punctuated that point. And then I think your question, if I'm remembering, was around how do I keep the conversation going? And what I would say is this is where I am excited because, you know, as we were talking about earlier, there are certain topics that you can't Go through a day or a week without reading about, I feel like we're at in this moment where so many people are talking about menopause and perimenopause. Like we've arrived where we can comfortably have these conversations and we need to keep pushing forward so that it does just become as normal as any other part of our health benefit plan. So I do believe that we are on that path and on that journey. And that's what keeps me excited and super motivated. about continuing to have conversations like this.
speaker-0: Please share with us some of the initiatives that you've been r launching and releasing 'cause there there have been some pretty amazing things where you're seeing that interaction by the community and the
speaker-1: customers. Yeah. So I'll talk a little bit around a partnership that we've had with CARERT, it's a health and fertility hormonal health family building organization. And we've been working with them probably it's coming on about two years. We started in a smaller pilot program. And then fairly recently we launched to our broader global health benefits population. And what this offering helps is a lot of what we've been talking about so far. is that it's providing education, it's providing support, it's providing communities to individuals who are going through something along the spectrum of hormonal health, right? So if you think about hormonal health, it is just that it's a spectrum, right? At one end of the spectrum, we're in our baby making mode and we might be having challenges in terms of having a family or building a family. And then on the other end of the spectrum, right, where the hormones start to decrease for men and women, right? Yeah. That brings in other challenges. So partners like Carrot help us to provide information support as individuals go through this journey. And as we talked about earlier, it could be very complicated when we're offering these on a global scale because of cultural norms, because of regulatory norms. And CARET is incredibly equipped to be able to help us navigate these challenges and barriers for our population. So that's a great example of an initiative that we're super proud of that is now available to our global health benefits population.
speaker-0: We're gonna make sure that we have a link to that because I think a lot of people would be very interested in that. You know, you talked about paramenopause and menopause, and in some essence, in some way, it's actually quite invisible at work because of the fact that people aren't talking about it more openly and education is a really good step. I'm curious on what you think employers are still trying to figure out in the learning of bringing this into the organization since employers help with that healthcare aspect of it and caring for the whole person. How what are employers still having to learn?
speaker-1: Well, I think part of it is just understanding what is available. So that's something that employers are still getting educated on. And again, we're helping with that along with some of our competitors, just allowing employers to understand the breadth of solutions that exist. And then I think employers are still also learning how to understand, as I was talking about earlier, the return on that investment, right? So how to think about investing. in these types of solutions in ways that you can connect that investment to driving better business outcomes. And again, that's something that we also work with our employers to help them understand so that as they're pitching these solutions to their CFOs and CEOs, they're able to create that business case. If you just think about things like lost productivity, right? Go back to the examples we were talking about with women and the challenges they have. sometimes women we see the studies, how what a very high percentage of women feel like they need to take some time away from work in order to deal with some of these challenges. So by not having the right programs at work, that could actually create even greater absenteeism, loss of productivity, et cetera. So I think employers are also looking for some help in how to ensure that they've got the right return on that investment.
speaker-0: How do you help leaders think about women's health through the lens of s like sustainability retention, like long-term organizational health without oversimplifying it, right? The danger of kind of maybe peanut buttering it out and then it's not effective. How do you frame that for them?
speaker-1: Again, it goes back to some of the facts, some of the research. If you just again think about fifty percent of the workforce and you think about again a hundred percent of those women, again, assuming they get to those ages, will experience these health conditions. And when they're experiencing these health conditions, is very often when they're at the peaks of their career or when they're in the growth of their career. And so Helping employers understand how, again, offering these types of solutions to the populations can help with sustainability of their talent and talent strategies. So I think that's a good example of the kind of research and evidence we bring forward to help employers understand the importance of inclusive health benefits.
speaker-0: This show is about doing good by doing better. How does that show up for you? What does that mean for you day to day?
speaker-1: So I love the phrase because I do think in many ways it does exemplify how I've thought of giving back across my career. So I have been very fortunate, I've been blessed to have grown an incredible career, my company, and achieved my career aspirations in many ways. And as a executive, as a female executive, I do feel that it is in some way my responsibility. To give back to others so that I can make that path a little bit better for those that come behind me. So you talked about earlier that example of that woman who was doing a presentation and broke out in a sweat. I've had that happen to me. And trust me, when I went through menopause, it wasn't at the time when people were talking about it as openly as we are today. So in many ways, I silently suffered along with many of my female colleagues. So part of doing good by doing better is I'm being open and sharing my experiences, my stories, so that I can help others again achieve their career goals and aspirations. So for me, it's all about paying it forward by sharing my experience.
speaker-0: Yeah. And also like you've got this from your position and also, of course, through the work that you're doing that aligns with the mission of the company and bringing that forward as well. It's amazing. Absolutely. You've are a vocal champion of moving beyond like this transactional type of healthcare, right? You you hear a lot about that. And so investing a lot more in employee well being. It's not just a feel good or a box you tick. It's not something that you just do because it's on a checklist. To you it's a strategic imperative in driving that engagement. Where did this idea come from and what influenced you to be that champion to move beyond that transactional healthcare?
speaker-1: So in many ways it goes back to my foundation as an accountant, right? So someone who was very financially oriented. So I know that a corporation, yes, they've got a mission statement, but they also have financial objectives that they need to achieve in order to fuel that mission, right? I always say no margin, no mission. So companies need to ensure that they are driving. their bottom line results to be able to again fuel their mission. So part of what I've always tried to do is connect the doing good part to the financial and business objectives as a company, right? So that's where I've tried to move away from just the check the box, yeah, it feels good. And how do I again make that case draw that connection to this will actually drive good business results over a sustained period. You talked about it earlier, the sustainability of the results. So to me, if an employer is making the right investments in their populations, that is going to drive sustained results and ultimately achievement of the mission. So that's sort of the framework that I've always operated in.
speaker-0: Now, in your leadership as you were going through your career, what brought you to this type of thinking of, hey, it's important to pay forward? Hey, it's important to leverage what I'm able to do to move not just individuals but society forward. Was there a particular memory or an experience that you had or a mentor that you had?
speaker-1: So it's interesting, you hit where I was going in that last part of your question and a mentor. I didn't get here on my own, right? Yes. I did a lot of hard work and there was a lot of intentionality on my part, but it they always say it requires a village, takes a village. And I did. I had along the way, I had mentors, I had advisors, I had sponsors that helped me. So I just feel again very compelled to ensure that I can be that for someone else. And, you know, I spend a lot of my days coaching and mentoring and providing career advice to others, right? Both men and women. I want to keep going back to yes, I am passionate about female leadership and women's health issues and things like that, but it's not at all to the exclusion of the importance of cultivating strong male leadership. So it really does come from this sense of I didn't get here by myself and I want to ensure that I help others achieve their career aspirations and journeys.
speaker-0: I'm also wondering, like often when people are listening to somebody's career on our show, they think it's a very straight path. Like I went from this to this to this and it just kept going up and up and up. Could you describe what what your career looked like if you were was it if did it feel more like a straight line or did it feel like it was all over the place?
speaker-1: Definitely not a straight line. I don't know many careers that are that straight line. I mean, again, even if you listen to the career journey that I laid out in some of your earlier questions, started out as an accountant and here I am running a global business. So that was definitely not a straight line, but it was a very intentional set of experiences and competencies and skills that I developed along the way. And maybe what I'll do is I'll share sort of the framework. That I often use when I am talking with individuals, whether it's mentoring, coaching, sponsoring, et cetera, I have this sort of three-part framework around being intentional, being visible, and being courageous. And, you know, I'll go into each of those in in a little bit, but being intentional is really taking the time on a routine basis. And I mean every 12, every 18 months to sit back and reflect and say, Where do I see my career going? Because again, that is definitely not a linear thing and it can change over time. What are the experiences, skills, competencies that I need to achieve those aspirations? And being intentional about identifying those, and then being equally intentional around sharing those with others who can help you get those experiences, improve those competencies, close those skill gaps. So there's a huge piece of of the journey that is around your investment in creating that intentionality in your journey. Second, I talk about being visible because very often, and I will say this is definitely more a female thing. I've seen it, women are often not comfortable sharing their achievements, being visible about their accomplishments and the great work that either they or their teams are doing. But it's super important that You're being visible about the gray work. It's not enough just to do good work, right? That's sort of a basic thing. You have to do good work. Right. People need to know about that good work. I often say that the most important decisions about your career often happen when you're not in the room. So how do you ensure that you're filling the room with stories that you want to be told about your career? So finding ways to be visible about your achievements and your accomplishments, again, not just of you, but of your team.
speaker-0: Keep
speaker-1: Super important to career growth. And then the last one is being courageous. So often you see job opportunities and you look at, ⁓ there are 10 things that this job requires that I must have or must have experienced. Well, get over that. You don't need to be fully confident in all 10, right? You need to, you know, have some relevant of experience and then have the confidence in yourself that just as you've done in the past. you'll be able to close whatever gaps are on on that page. So get a little uncomfortable, as I always say. If you're if you don't have a few butterflies in your stomach as you're seeking that next opportunity, you're probably not stretching yourself far enough. So that would be a little bit of my framework.
speaker-0: I love that framework. I and I hundred percent agree that I think it tends to be a female thing of not wanting to be visible and in some cases some cultural things where it's almost it feels conceited, right? You're given the impression that you're being conceited when that's not always the case. How did you in your career as you think about values, people talk about leadership values all the time? And how did you go about Figuring out where your values started to converge and really settle and what steps did you take? Was that very intentional for you, or did you go through a different process on that?
speaker-1: It's an interesting question because you always want to be your authentic self, right? And I think that is probably the core of the values that I live by and the values that I want to ensure that my employer has. Right. So authentic leadership is something that is very important to me. And I think probably over time I've realized more and more about the importance of being an authentic leader. So when you Go to sleep at night, you put your head on the pillow, you feel good. You feel good about the value you're providing to your clients and customers. You feel equally good about the value you're providing to your employees. So, you know, I do think that it really starts with being authentic as maybe your core to the value system.
speaker-0: I love that. In terms of how you help people find their own values, you actually said something that's really interesting, which is when your organization also aligns with your values, it makes it really does make your life a lot easier of how you operate within the organization. How do you help mentor future leaders to figure that out?
speaker-1: So it's interesting about the alignment. There's another thing I often talk about is decision making. And I I always say there are three types of decisions. There's decisions that you own and you need to make. There are decisions that you can influence. You don't own them, but you have the opportunity to influence the decision maker. And then there are decisions that you don't agree with, but you as a leader have to lead through. I then add, You always want that last category to be a really small percentage, right? It's never going to be zero, right? Let's face it, right? As leaders, we've had situations where we don't a hundred percent agree with the decisions, but we have to lead through them. But ensuring that that is not the majority also signals that you do have alignment with your employer. So sometimes the way that you help to understand am I really aligned with the company that I work for. And again, I've been fortunate that I have had that over the duration of my career. It's looking at those decisions. And are you comfortable in the direction that your employer is going and the decisions they're making for the business, for the employees, et cetera. And if you find yourself where that is out of balance and more and more things are falling into that third bucket, it's probably a time to assess whether or not there is value misalignment.
speaker-0: Yeah. The reflection piece is really important. Like you said, every twelve to eighteen months you gotta reassess and see if it makes sense. Right.
speaker-1: Absolutely.
speaker-0: What advice would you give to women aspiring to lead in health care?
speaker-1: Some of the things I've pointed out already would be things I would reiterate, right? So it's that notion of being intentional, being visible, being courageous. I would definitely put that in the category. And I would also ensure that you really understand who your sponsors are. And there's a very big distinction between mentorship and sponsorship. And that was something that I actually learned along my journey. thinking that I did actually have really good sponsors, but actually in that reflection moment, realizing they were good mentors, but they really weren't sponsoring me. They weren't helping me to get to that next level. And then I was able to identify who my true sponsors were. And it was those individuals that I absolutely credit to helping me achieve the goals that I've achieved in my career. So really making sure that you understand who your sponsors are.
speaker-0: And that's part of being visible also, right?
speaker-1: Hundred percent. Yep. And spending the time to network. That's another thing that I talk about again, not just with women, but with all sorts of people. The importance of taking time out of your weeks, your months to ensure that you are networking with people, not only inside your organization, but also outside your organization. It's so easy to not do that because we're all so busy, right? So much going on. So many demands on our time, not only again at work, but also at home. But how do you ensure that you're being good to yourself by ensuring that you don't lose that networking time? So one of the tricks that I have done and I continue to do is I actually write a list of who are the people I should be connecting with monthly, quarterly, annually, and hold myself accountable to make sure that I'm making those connections.
speaker-0: Well, this has been such a wonderful conversation. Thank you for sharing your experience, your perspective. I love the being intentional, visible, and courageous. And of course the work that you're doing with inclusive and women's healthcare. It's just amazing work. What's one thing you hope leaders take away from this conversation?
speaker-1: So I think it goes back to your tagline, doing good by doing better. I hope that leaders recognize the
speaker-0: I didn't pay her to say that, by the way.
speaker-1: I I hope that leaders recognize that as you elevate an organization, people are looking at you. And what you say and what you do, you are a role model, whether you like it or not. So I think that leaders have a tremendous opportunity to do good by doing better.
speaker-0: Well, you gotta end really well on that. And just for the sound bite, where can people find out more about what you're offering?
speaker-1: Yeah, so we've got great collateral material on our Cygna dot com site. I think you'll put up maybe the link to the place where they find out more information around women's health, but there's lots of great materials out there on our website.
speaker-0: Fantastic. And thank you so much. Thanks for listening to Doing Good by Doing Better. I'm Margaret Rogers, CEO of Pariveda, and I hope this conversation offered you a new way to take your ideas to impact. Follow on Apple or Spotify and join us every other week as we keep learning how to do good by doing better. This podcast was edited and
speaker-1: Produced by Resonate Recordings.
speaker-1: I am excited to be here with you, Margaret.
speaker-0: Yeah. I want to start a little bit about your career. Cause your career is just so like I would categorize it as unconventional in terms of that path. You started off in the world of accounting to CPA and then moved on to healthcare, and you're making such a huge impact on healthcare itself. Could you talk a little bit about your career journey?
speaker-1: Absolutely. And you know, I'd like to say that I had it all planned out, but that would definitely not be a truthful statement. And when I started my career was definitely not in the age of AI. We were just starting to use things like email. And I remember checking it maybe once a week at best. So it seems like certainly forever ago. But when you talk about my career and my career journey, so as you referenced, I started out my career as an accountant or CPA. So graduated from school. and with an accounting degree. And I would absolutely say that I took a very traditional path for someone with my degree and pedigree at the time. I joined one of at the time it was one of the big five accounting firms. And that was a wonderful experience for me because really from the beginning of my career, what I learned that I enjoyed was learning different perspectives around different businesses. Because as an auditor, that's what I was doing. I was Every few months going from one client to another client to a different industry to a different set of problems. And I realized early on that that was something that I enjoyed, that perspective, that change, et cetera. About five years into that career, I realized that it wasn't that I wasn't enjoying my experiences and didn't love my company, but when I thought about what I wanted for myself, both work and life. I decided it was time for me to take a change and to go find a employer that I could build a career and at some point build a family. And that actually took me to Cygna. And I was very fortunate in my journey of looking for a new company to candidly stumble into our financial leadership program. But it really spoke to me in terms of what I said earlier around that variety and getting different experiences because the financial leadership program was a rotational program. So it gave me the opportunity to be put into different businesses, to learn different aspects of how we operate, to meet all different types of people. So that was certainly something that was very appealing to me. When I said I didn't script my career, I never would have said I'm going to a healthcare company. even in my days of doing audit, I had never worked on a client in the healthcare industry. But I came to understand the mission of Cygna very early on in the interview process. And that mission coupled with the rotational experience was enough for me to say, I'm gonna try this. And that turned into a 30 year career. And that career journey has taken me to many different places. I often say I've had probably five or more different careers inside of the same company. So I've had the privilege of being able to work at a company that I believe very strongly about our mission, but I've been able to contribute in so many different ways, whether it early on in the financial capacities, then moving into our clinical operations, where I saw firsthand. The really good work that our clinical teams do when people are going through some very trying times. I spent a good chunk of my career in our product or solutions organization really understanding what client and customer value and how we actually bring solutions into market. And then a little bit later in my career, I moved into market-facing roles where I led the Connecticut market. I was the market president for Connecticut, and more recently. found myself in our international division where I am now leading our global health benefits business.
speaker-0: That is such an amazing career path. Just for our listeners who are unfamiliar, talk a little bit more about the mission. Like what is the mission and what made it resonate with you?
speaker-1: Yeah. So in a nutshell, our mission is to improve the health and vitality of those we serve. So each and every day, right, we seek to do just that, to ensure that each individual is is living their best life, right? Not only their physical health, but their mental health, their support system, so that individuals can show up in their home life and their work life as their best possible self.
speaker-0: Wow, there's so many wonderful things that are in there. And I w know one of the things that you are very passionate about is the idea of inclusive healthcare. What does that really mean to you in practice?
speaker-1: Yeah. So if you actually step back and just think about that mission statement that I said a moment ago. Right. Prove health and vitality of you as an individual. So when you think about the notion of inclusive health, it's about ensuring that every individual in the population is getting the health care and healthcare solutions that they need to again achieve that health and vitality. So that to me is what inclusive means. It's that everyone gets what they need from the system.
speaker-0: It's a great one, by the way. And would imagine that the barriers are different, especially as you're serving a global role. Right. And so what are the barriers that you are trying to tackle that actually makes an impact and moves the needle?
speaker-1: So there are several barriers, especially when you're thinking about global mobility and people who are living and working outside their home countries, we're serving in hundreds of different countries around the globe. So I'd start with employers. So there are some barriers in terms of employers understanding and appreciating the importance of offering certain types of benefits to again achieve that inclusive health care. So that's one barrier that I actually believe we're doing a really good job of. breaking down those barriers because more and more employers are seeking to coverage things that historically maybe weren't part of what I'd call the core package. Second, though, we also have to navigate very carefully cultural and regulatory barriers as well. We have to respect that not all cultures are where I live in the US, and that there are stri different norms and different barriers to some of the inclusive healthcare. So what is normal and what would be offered here in the United States may not be something that is well received or culturally accepted in a different country around the globe. And that also creates barriers of access because sometimes an individual can't get to a doctor that can help him or her with their healthcare needs.
speaker-0: How do you think about that as it relates to women's health too? Because that's a really good example of where cultural norms are very different from country to country. So as a leader from a global level, how do you think through that?
speaker-1: So it really starts with driving the education because a lot of these things or these health conditions where we're just sort of starting to get into this zone of offering, right? So if you think about things like menopause, perimenopause, fertility, et cetera, it starts with education and awareness, right? Because it is many of those topics that I just talked about, people are under educated. in terms of what it is. So it starts with education and then it starts or the next phase I should say is making sure that folks understand what is available. And again, there we are making strides in terms of creating solutions, partnering with third parties, especially third parties that are very attuned to what are the cultural norms, the regulatory environments, because it is really important that we navigate those things very carefully so that we keep people safe. and ensure that they're able to get the access to care that they need.
speaker-0: Yeah. You've also talked about how you feel like employers are a core part of that strategy. You actually just mentioned it as you were talking about the mission itself. Talk a little bit more about why that perspective.
speaker-1: So employers play an enormous role in ensuring that individuals are getting those inclusive health benefits and again making sure that every individual is getting the care that they need for their particular situations. And so one of the things that we try to do is connect the importance of that, because if you think about again the importance of ensuring that people are getting the health benefits that they need to be their best self, connecting that to The employers' business objectives and their own missions. Because at the end of the day, if people aren't their best selves, they're not bringing their best selves to work. And therefore, they're not performing at the top of their game. And if you have individuals in your organization that are all performing at the top of their game, individual companies are obviously going to have better bottom line results. So we do try to make that connection between it's not just Hey, this is a good thing to do for the person. It is a good thing to do for the person, but it's also a really good thing to do for your business.
speaker-0: Yeah. That's a hundred percent true. I one of the things that you were talking about when we first met, it was about women's health. That is a topic that's near and dear to my heart. As you were describing it, I ha went through a very, very similar situation where there's not a lot of information out there. Situated in the United States, you would think that you would have access to a lot of information. And I found myself doing what other women do, which is go to WhatsApp and finding communities, which is crazy. To think that you're gonna go to WhatsApp and have these conversations. So talk a little bit about women's health as why it's so important to you right now.
speaker-1: So it goes to back to what you just said a moment ago, right? Where as a female am I going to get information around understanding what's going on with me? Right. So if you kind of just step back for a second and think about some of the statistics, right? 50% on average of the workforce are female. 50%. And at any given time, about 20% of the overall population. Is going through something like menopause or perimenopause. And 100% of those females that I referenced in the 50%, if they're fortunate enough to get to the age, right, where perimenopause and men and menopause happens, they're likely going to have some symptoms. But so often people don't understand what's going on. They're not even recognizing, ⁓ that brain fog or the sluggishness that I have, that's actually attached to. the onset of perimenopause or menopause. So what I'm trying to do as a female leader, a female executive, is to normalize the conversation so that individuals can look at leaders like me or other women in the organization and say, okay, I'm not alone. And they can actually seek information from people in their own organization in addition to some of the communities that you've referenced outside of their organization. So to me it's about, you know, I'm trying to do my part to drive that better awareness so that people can get better educated, so that people can get diagnosed for some of these health conditions.
speaker-0: You know, it's interesting you say that too, because it's not just the education of women, but also of men, all people about this topic. I had a colleague of mine tell me one time that she went through a hot flash in the middle of a presentation and they thought that she was embarrassed. And she's like, No, I'm just this is not what this is. And they don't really talk about it. I know you believe that it really requires sustained leadership though to make this kind of change. And How do you energize that? Because it's really considered a specialty topic right now, but to your point, 50% of our population is going to encounter this if they reach that age.
speaker-1: Yeah, so there's a couple things in what you said in that question that I want to go back to. So I would be very remiss if I didn't recognize the importance of men in this conversation. So up until this point in our conversation, I've been talking a lot about women and women in leadership and all of that, but it is so critical that we don't walk away from this conversation thinking this is just a women's issue, that men are equally critical to ensuring that we achieve this inclusive health care. And in fact, in some of the solutions that we are delivering into the marketplace, we actually see in many cases more men interacting with some of our solutions that we're offering. So not only is it critical that it's men and women in the conversation and working to get the inclusive health care, but we are actually seeing a lot of really good engagement from our male colleagues and population as well. And again, some of these health topics that I'm talking about don't just impact females, right? Hormonal health is absolutely a topic that impacts men as well as women. So I just wanted to make sure that I punctuated that point. And then I think your question, if I'm remembering, was around how do I keep the conversation going? And what I would say is this is where I am excited because, you know, as we were talking about earlier, there are certain topics that you can't Go through a day or a week without reading about, I feel like we're at in this moment where so many people are talking about menopause and perimenopause. Like we've arrived where we can comfortably have these conversations and we need to keep pushing forward so that it does just become as normal as any other part of our health benefit plan. So I do believe that we are on that path and on that journey. And that's what keeps me excited and super motivated. about continuing to have conversations like this.
speaker-0: Please share with us some of the initiatives that you've been r launching and releasing 'cause there there have been some pretty amazing things where you're seeing that interaction by the community and the
speaker-1: customers. Yeah. So I'll talk a little bit around a partnership that we've had with CARERT, it's a health and fertility hormonal health family building organization. And we've been working with them probably it's coming on about two years. We started in a smaller pilot program. And then fairly recently we launched to our broader global health benefits population. And what this offering helps is a lot of what we've been talking about so far. is that it's providing education, it's providing support, it's providing communities to individuals who are going through something along the spectrum of hormonal health, right? So if you think about hormonal health, it is just that it's a spectrum, right? At one end of the spectrum, we're in our baby making mode and we might be having challenges in terms of having a family or building a family. And then on the other end of the spectrum, right, where the hormones start to decrease for men and women, right? Yeah. That brings in other challenges. So partners like Carrot help us to provide information support as individuals go through this journey. And as we talked about earlier, it could be very complicated when we're offering these on a global scale because of cultural norms, because of regulatory norms. And CARET is incredibly equipped to be able to help us navigate these challenges and barriers for our population. So that's a great example of an initiative that we're super proud of that is now available to our global health benefits population.
speaker-0: We're gonna make sure that we have a link to that because I think a lot of people would be very interested in that. You know, you talked about paramenopause and menopause, and in some essence, in some way, it's actually quite invisible at work because of the fact that people aren't talking about it more openly and education is a really good step. I'm curious on what you think employers are still trying to figure out in the learning of bringing this into the organization since employers help with that healthcare aspect of it and caring for the whole person. How what are employers still having to learn?
speaker-1: Well, I think part of it is just understanding what is available. So that's something that employers are still getting educated on. And again, we're helping with that along with some of our competitors, just allowing employers to understand the breadth of solutions that exist. And then I think employers are still also learning how to understand, as I was talking about earlier, the return on that investment, right? So how to think about investing. in these types of solutions in ways that you can connect that investment to driving better business outcomes. And again, that's something that we also work with our employers to help them understand so that as they're pitching these solutions to their CFOs and CEOs, they're able to create that business case. If you just think about things like lost productivity, right? Go back to the examples we were talking about with women and the challenges they have. sometimes women we see the studies, how what a very high percentage of women feel like they need to take some time away from work in order to deal with some of these challenges. So by not having the right programs at work, that could actually create even greater absenteeism, loss of productivity, et cetera. So I think employers are also looking for some help in how to ensure that they've got the right return on that investment.
speaker-0: How do you help leaders think about women's health through the lens of s like sustainability retention, like long-term organizational health without oversimplifying it, right? The danger of kind of maybe peanut buttering it out and then it's not effective. How do you frame that for them?
speaker-1: Again, it goes back to some of the facts, some of the research. If you just again think about fifty percent of the workforce and you think about again a hundred percent of those women, again, assuming they get to those ages, will experience these health conditions. And when they're experiencing these health conditions, is very often when they're at the peaks of their career or when they're in the growth of their career. And so Helping employers understand how, again, offering these types of solutions to the populations can help with sustainability of their talent and talent strategies. So I think that's a good example of the kind of research and evidence we bring forward to help employers understand the importance of inclusive health benefits.
speaker-0: This show is about doing good by doing better. How does that show up for you? What does that mean for you day to day?
speaker-1: So I love the phrase because I do think in many ways it does exemplify how I've thought of giving back across my career. So I have been very fortunate, I've been blessed to have grown an incredible career, my company, and achieved my career aspirations in many ways. And as a executive, as a female executive, I do feel that it is in some way my responsibility. To give back to others so that I can make that path a little bit better for those that come behind me. So you talked about earlier that example of that woman who was doing a presentation and broke out in a sweat. I've had that happen to me. And trust me, when I went through menopause, it wasn't at the time when people were talking about it as openly as we are today. So in many ways, I silently suffered along with many of my female colleagues. So part of doing good by doing better is I'm being open and sharing my experiences, my stories, so that I can help others again achieve their career goals and aspirations. So for me, it's all about paying it forward by sharing my experience.
speaker-0: Yeah. And also like you've got this from your position and also, of course, through the work that you're doing that aligns with the mission of the company and bringing that forward as well. It's amazing. Absolutely. You've are a vocal champion of moving beyond like this transactional type of healthcare, right? You you hear a lot about that. And so investing a lot more in employee well being. It's not just a feel good or a box you tick. It's not something that you just do because it's on a checklist. To you it's a strategic imperative in driving that engagement. Where did this idea come from and what influenced you to be that champion to move beyond that transactional healthcare?
speaker-1: So in many ways it goes back to my foundation as an accountant, right? So someone who was very financially oriented. So I know that a corporation, yes, they've got a mission statement, but they also have financial objectives that they need to achieve in order to fuel that mission, right? I always say no margin, no mission. So companies need to ensure that they are driving. their bottom line results to be able to again fuel their mission. So part of what I've always tried to do is connect the doing good part to the financial and business objectives as a company, right? So that's where I've tried to move away from just the check the box, yeah, it feels good. And how do I again make that case draw that connection to this will actually drive good business results over a sustained period. You talked about it earlier, the sustainability of the results. So to me, if an employer is making the right investments in their populations, that is going to drive sustained results and ultimately achievement of the mission. So that's sort of the framework that I've always operated in.
speaker-0: Now, in your leadership as you were going through your career, what brought you to this type of thinking of, hey, it's important to pay forward? Hey, it's important to leverage what I'm able to do to move not just individuals but society forward. Was there a particular memory or an experience that you had or a mentor that you had?
speaker-1: So it's interesting, you hit where I was going in that last part of your question and a mentor. I didn't get here on my own, right? Yes. I did a lot of hard work and there was a lot of intentionality on my part, but it they always say it requires a village, takes a village. And I did. I had along the way, I had mentors, I had advisors, I had sponsors that helped me. So I just feel again very compelled to ensure that I can be that for someone else. And, you know, I spend a lot of my days coaching and mentoring and providing career advice to others, right? Both men and women. I want to keep going back to yes, I am passionate about female leadership and women's health issues and things like that, but it's not at all to the exclusion of the importance of cultivating strong male leadership. So it really does come from this sense of I didn't get here by myself and I want to ensure that I help others achieve their career aspirations and journeys.
speaker-0: I'm also wondering, like often when people are listening to somebody's career on our show, they think it's a very straight path. Like I went from this to this to this and it just kept going up and up and up. Could you describe what what your career looked like if you were was it if did it feel more like a straight line or did it feel like it was all over the place?
speaker-1: Definitely not a straight line. I don't know many careers that are that straight line. I mean, again, even if you listen to the career journey that I laid out in some of your earlier questions, started out as an accountant and here I am running a global business. So that was definitely not a straight line, but it was a very intentional set of experiences and competencies and skills that I developed along the way. And maybe what I'll do is I'll share sort of the framework. That I often use when I am talking with individuals, whether it's mentoring, coaching, sponsoring, et cetera, I have this sort of three-part framework around being intentional, being visible, and being courageous. And, you know, I'll go into each of those in in a little bit, but being intentional is really taking the time on a routine basis. And I mean every 12, every 18 months to sit back and reflect and say, Where do I see my career going? Because again, that is definitely not a linear thing and it can change over time. What are the experiences, skills, competencies that I need to achieve those aspirations? And being intentional about identifying those, and then being equally intentional around sharing those with others who can help you get those experiences, improve those competencies, close those skill gaps. So there's a huge piece of of the journey that is around your investment in creating that intentionality in your journey. Second, I talk about being visible because very often, and I will say this is definitely more a female thing. I've seen it, women are often not comfortable sharing their achievements, being visible about their accomplishments and the great work that either they or their teams are doing. But it's super important that You're being visible about the gray work. It's not enough just to do good work, right? That's sort of a basic thing. You have to do good work. Right. People need to know about that good work. I often say that the most important decisions about your career often happen when you're not in the room. So how do you ensure that you're filling the room with stories that you want to be told about your career? So finding ways to be visible about your achievements and your accomplishments, again, not just of you, but of your team.
speaker-0: Keep
speaker-1: Super important to career growth. And then the last one is being courageous. So often you see job opportunities and you look at, ⁓ there are 10 things that this job requires that I must have or must have experienced. Well, get over that. You don't need to be fully confident in all 10, right? You need to, you know, have some relevant of experience and then have the confidence in yourself that just as you've done in the past. you'll be able to close whatever gaps are on on that page. So get a little uncomfortable, as I always say. If you're if you don't have a few butterflies in your stomach as you're seeking that next opportunity, you're probably not stretching yourself far enough. So that would be a little bit of my framework.
speaker-0: I love that framework. I and I hundred percent agree that I think it tends to be a female thing of not wanting to be visible and in some cases some cultural things where it's almost it feels conceited, right? You're given the impression that you're being conceited when that's not always the case. How did you in your career as you think about values, people talk about leadership values all the time? And how did you go about Figuring out where your values started to converge and really settle and what steps did you take? Was that very intentional for you, or did you go through a different process on that?
speaker-1: It's an interesting question because you always want to be your authentic self, right? And I think that is probably the core of the values that I live by and the values that I want to ensure that my employer has. Right. So authentic leadership is something that is very important to me. And I think probably over time I've realized more and more about the importance of being an authentic leader. So when you Go to sleep at night, you put your head on the pillow, you feel good. You feel good about the value you're providing to your clients and customers. You feel equally good about the value you're providing to your employees. So, you know, I do think that it really starts with being authentic as maybe your core to the value system.
speaker-0: I love that. In terms of how you help people find their own values, you actually said something that's really interesting, which is when your organization also aligns with your values, it makes it really does make your life a lot easier of how you operate within the organization. How do you help mentor future leaders to figure that out?
speaker-1: So it's interesting about the alignment. There's another thing I often talk about is decision making. And I I always say there are three types of decisions. There's decisions that you own and you need to make. There are decisions that you can influence. You don't own them, but you have the opportunity to influence the decision maker. And then there are decisions that you don't agree with, but you as a leader have to lead through. I then add, You always want that last category to be a really small percentage, right? It's never going to be zero, right? Let's face it, right? As leaders, we've had situations where we don't a hundred percent agree with the decisions, but we have to lead through them. But ensuring that that is not the majority also signals that you do have alignment with your employer. So sometimes the way that you help to understand am I really aligned with the company that I work for. And again, I've been fortunate that I have had that over the duration of my career. It's looking at those decisions. And are you comfortable in the direction that your employer is going and the decisions they're making for the business, for the employees, et cetera. And if you find yourself where that is out of balance and more and more things are falling into that third bucket, it's probably a time to assess whether or not there is value misalignment.
speaker-0: Yeah. The reflection piece is really important. Like you said, every twelve to eighteen months you gotta reassess and see if it makes sense. Right.
speaker-1: Absolutely.
speaker-0: What advice would you give to women aspiring to lead in health care?
speaker-1: Some of the things I've pointed out already would be things I would reiterate, right? So it's that notion of being intentional, being visible, being courageous. I would definitely put that in the category. And I would also ensure that you really understand who your sponsors are. And there's a very big distinction between mentorship and sponsorship. And that was something that I actually learned along my journey. thinking that I did actually have really good sponsors, but actually in that reflection moment, realizing they were good mentors, but they really weren't sponsoring me. They weren't helping me to get to that next level. And then I was able to identify who my true sponsors were. And it was those individuals that I absolutely credit to helping me achieve the goals that I've achieved in my career. So really making sure that you understand who your sponsors are.
speaker-0: And that's part of being visible also, right?
speaker-1: Hundred percent. Yep. And spending the time to network. That's another thing that I talk about again, not just with women, but with all sorts of people. The importance of taking time out of your weeks, your months to ensure that you are networking with people, not only inside your organization, but also outside your organization. It's so easy to not do that because we're all so busy, right? So much going on. So many demands on our time, not only again at work, but also at home. But how do you ensure that you're being good to yourself by ensuring that you don't lose that networking time? So one of the tricks that I have done and I continue to do is I actually write a list of who are the people I should be connecting with monthly, quarterly, annually, and hold myself accountable to make sure that I'm making those connections.
speaker-0: Well, this has been such a wonderful conversation. Thank you for sharing your experience, your perspective. I love the being intentional, visible, and courageous. And of course the work that you're doing with inclusive and women's healthcare. It's just amazing work. What's one thing you hope leaders take away from this conversation?
speaker-1: So I think it goes back to your tagline, doing good by doing better. I hope that leaders recognize the
speaker-0: I didn't pay her to say that, by the way.
speaker-1: I I hope that leaders recognize that as you elevate an organization, people are looking at you. And what you say and what you do, you are a role model, whether you like it or not. So I think that leaders have a tremendous opportunity to do good by doing better.
speaker-0: Well, you gotta end really well on that. And just for the sound bite, where can people find out more about what you're offering?
speaker-1: Yeah, so we've got great collateral material on our Cygna dot com site. I think you'll put up maybe the link to the place where they find out more information around women's health, but there's lots of great materials out there on our website.
speaker-0: Fantastic. And thank you so much. Thanks for listening to Doing Good by Doing Better. I'm Margaret Rogers, CEO of Pariveda, and I hope this conversation offered you a new way to take your ideas to impact. Follow on Apple or Spotify and join us every other week as we keep learning how to do good by doing better. This podcast was edited and
speaker-1: Produced by Resonate Recordings.
