Financial Advice for Creatives w/ Chris Mermer | Cloud Machine Ep. 80

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When I'm thinking about health of a business when it comes to reinvesting, I'm thinking about
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what are the operations of this business? What do they do? How do they earn money? And are their
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purchases like these reinvestment opportunities that they've had? Are they helping them get to that
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point? Welcome to the Cloud Machine podcast. You're all access pass to the music industry.
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I'm your host, Matt Landry, and every week we immerse you in the music world and curving industry
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insights, offering expert guidance and exploring the stories that influence the industry. Cloud
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Machine podcast is brought to you by 8s, the innovative creative agency behind some of your
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favorite live concerts and tours. Want to take your music to the next level? Join a vibrant
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community on the 8s network discord. And with that, let's get started with today's episode.
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Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the Cloud Machine podcast. Today we're joined by the multi-talented
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Chris Murmer, an accountant with a passion for music. Not only does Chris handle the financials
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for 8s creative, but he's also launching his own venture Gemini and has an artistic project called
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the Vertigo Blue. In this episode, we'll explore the intersection of finance and creativity,
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diving into Chris's journey in the music industry and his insights on managing finances for artists
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and creatives. Hey, Chris, how are you? I'm doing well, man. How are you? Thanks for having me on.
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Thank you for coming on. I've been telling a lot of people about this episode
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over the past week and they're excited because it's a topic that we have not covered on the podcast.
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And it is one of the most important in my opinion, in my perspective. It's one of the most important
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topics and just realities of being an artist and a creative in today's world. So thank you for being on.
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Oh, yeah. No, that sounds great. I'm excited to share what I got.
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Fantastic. I just want to start off the podcast that we always started off the podcast. I want to
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ask you what has been your favorite experience as a fan ever? So in the music industry? Sorry.
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You bet. No, I had these. I had these locked in. I was thinking I have two experiences that kind of
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stand out to me over all the years I've been going on concerts. Yeah. First one's the 1975 at
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Tideaco Beach. I don't know if you were at that show too. Everybody I talked to seems to be at that
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show. It was really special. I wasn't, but it's been on the podcast a bunch. You bet. It was
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something magical about that. It was the first concert that I went to with my girlfriend.
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Yeah. Like now I've been dating with her eight years. So it's been a long time. And that was kind
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of our first live show music experience together. So it always sticks in my brain as like one of
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the best ones. It was on the beach, which is kind of weird, usually in like some dark venue when
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it was daylight. You watch the sunset come down. It was pretty cool. So I was in the back at it
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thinking, oh, that's great. And as a fan, I always relate 1975's music to that type of feel. It's
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always been positive. So yeah. And there seems to be some like, there seems to be a thing with the
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1975, especially like our group, our generation of music, especially like indie leaning people,
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like 75 is just such a reference both for live and for recorded music. And you see, you see the
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influences, you see the influences, but you also hear the influences as well. And I've been on
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projects where, you know, different music projects throughout the years since that time. And almost
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everyone we pull up a 1975 song. Oh yeah. You know, Robbers is a great tune to reference on this
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guitar, right? Yeah, I know. It's a lot of fun. And the second one is turn style. I don't know
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turn style. I do. I have a cousin who may you maybe listen to this podcast, Joey DeMers,
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who is a big turn style fan. I don't know them that much, but I've seen him in him on his stories,
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go to a couple turn style shows, but I don't know them. They're, you know, they're the new
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it group for hardcore rock. So yeah, I got into that scene, you know, later in my life, I'd say,
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and I just fell in love with it. And they were the first band that kind of broke this like
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international veil on hard school, hardcore music. Right. Show, it was that history in Toronto here.
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And it's, it was, it was sweet because I was like, first time I crowd served, first time I was
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going to get into a pit, like it was fun. And I leave the show and like, I'm just drenched in sweat.
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Like I wore a T-shirt, like heavy cargo pants and they were just soaked. It was one to remember
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for sure. What, what makes it a live show memorable for you? I think it's the crowd energy. I think
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a lot of the live show, you know, you have to love the music and you love the band and knowing
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the songs is always helpful. But I go to a lot of shows where I don't know the artist too. I just
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want to get into them and see them. Right. But the crowd, like the actual feeling of the crowd
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being into it and everybody's around, um, it's just really into the music. I think that really
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makes a big live show happen. Yeah. And for me on my side, like the, the crowd and the interaction
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as well between the musicians and the crowd and stuff and just the sense of like community. And
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it's always great, especially in Toronto, because there's been, uh, there's been a thing in the
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past a couple of years that a lot of artists and a lot of fans say that Toronto don't have like
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quote unquote, like great crowds. Yeah. I don't, I don't know if that's necessarily the truth,
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because I've been to some great shows and great crowds in Toronto. Yeah, definitely same for you.
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Is, is, does an artist have a responsibility there on making the crowd great as well?
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I think, I think to a certain threshold, right? Like I think, you know, it's the artist's
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responsibility to kind of get people up and going. And then I think also set list planning is really
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important. Like Turnstile, for example, the first, you know, 20 minutes of that show, you're running
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around and it's getting hot and, you know, it's intense at some points for sure. Like, you know,
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it's not everybody seen, right? You're actually in the middle of the, of the crowd. The band has
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this responsibility to kind of cool it down a little bit. So they play like a slower song,
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something a little bit more subdued to let people catch the breath. And then if people have a chance
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to catch a breath, they could stay in and involved longer. So I think there's a little bit of
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management on the artist's side to like, Hey, let's play off each other a little bit here.
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Right. And what you're saying, which is interesting is that it's, it's more of a management thing.
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So it's not always trying to get the crowd higher, but sometimes you got to bring them back down.
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You got it. That's exactly it. Like sometimes it's like, Oh, this is too crazy. I could see people
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starting to get tired. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Fantastic. On the podcast, we do a quote
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segment for those, maybe you've been listening a long time last year, it was the Erica Badu quote,
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basically talking about the music as an art form versus music as the music business, basically.
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This year we're doing a Joni Mitchell quote from 2004. So take this in 20 years ago. She says,
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I heard someone from the music business saying that they are no longer looking for talent.
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They want people with a certain look and a willingness to cooperate. So just, and just
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first thoughts is that it's not her that said this is, it's somebody from the music business,
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but she heard them saying this. What are your first instincts when you hear this sentence?
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You know, it, it's kind of tough, right? Because it, you know, talent doesn't always get you where
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you want to go. I think that's kind of what she's, this quote is trying to nail is there's a lot of
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the unsuccessful people with talent. Yes. A lot of the success comes from your willingness to,
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you know, for a lack of a better term, I guess, play the game. You know, it's a cliche in the music
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industry for sure. But you're running a business as an artist. So you have to, you have to really
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get involved and you have to be willing to, you know, put yourself in certain situations and not
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just record music. Like having great music is one thing. Being an artist is another thing. Yes.
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Yeah. And then being a successful artist is another thing on top of that. And, you know,
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the talent side of things, I think that, you know, we see it all the time. Like there's people writing
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songs and producing all the time. It's about their grit. And it's a shame kind of that, you know,
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the record label is so controlled sometimes. Yeah. They really break that, you know, vision of an
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artist. If they get too involved or they directly create too much. But yeah, you have to pair talent
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with a lot of hard work. Yeah. You mentioned, you mentioned play the game. You got to play the game.
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I completely have to echo what you're saying about, you know, there's one thing about, you know,
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you know, artistry and stuff. But the industry, it is a business. I personally, I think you have
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to, you know, divide that and creativity is one thing. And your artist sort of, you know,
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I don't want to say like product, but your artistic output is one thing. But sometimes as an artist,
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especially now in 2024, you got to put that business cap on because you are the CEO of your
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own business. You bet. Yeah. It's on you. Yeah. And more and more today in 2024. Definitely.
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You're wearing every hat you possibly can. Yeah. Where do you think of the industries going?
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You know, I think this is an interesting one. I've had a couple of people ask me this and
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I don't totally know. I see a lot of trends that are happening and something I'm kind of personally
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curious about is where streaming services are going. I think there's a lot of backlash in,
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you know, the artist payment on streaming services. Like there's this headline I saw the other day
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where the CEO of Spotify made more in earnings this year than Taylor Swift did from all of her
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royalties, which is nuts. So I think there's a lot of artists and a lot of people in music,
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like fans who see this kind of imbalance. So I'm curious to see what spins out of the streaming
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industry with like a blockchain technology. Like if there's a new, I've been hearing words about,
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you know, new services where you fans can pay artists directly through the streaming service
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that, you know, you upload your music to and then to listen, you can listen for free or you can
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choose to donate some kind of money to the artist directly through the blockchain. So there's no
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pass through of a streaming service that then is responsible for paying the artist. It goes right
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to the team, which I think is cool. And what of like a band camp situation? Yeah. Something similar
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to a band camp. Exactly. But all through like these, these new blockchain texts where it's,
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you know, I'm not too familiar with the whole world there, but it's a little more advanced on
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that streaming side of things, not much as much of a purchase, but more of like this integrated
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streaming service. And then another thing I'm seeing a lot in the industry is the
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separation of publishing companies from a record label. So for most of the time, they're together,
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like there's a recording company, like a record label, and then there's the writing side. And
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it's always saying team where there's groups now like a kilometer. Yeah. Yeah. Or just a team of
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writers and it's all publishing. And there's a similar company in the US pulse recordings.
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And it's just a team of writers and they've been in placements on massive records. Yeah. So that's
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separation of, you know, owning the master being the owner of this copyright material to being a
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writer and owning publishing, getting relatives from publishing that's separation. I think it's
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going to keep them totally. And I mean, we're going to talk about things later on on this topic,
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but there's a lot of people making a lot of money off of publishing now. Maybe even more than master.
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So no, it's a great, you know, for those listening, you know, we throw around the word label a lot,
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but publishing and distribution, both of those things are really key, especially in today's
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world, because the labels, you know, now, you know, I look at them as a large marketing machine
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and a bank basically. It's just a bank. It's a fancy bank. Fancy bank, exactly. But the publishing
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and the distribution is where the real differentiation is. Right. Apart from the marketing. The
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marketing is a big, big thing on the label side, but from just like a, excuse me, like a day to day
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music business front publishing houses and distribution is really important. Are there
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some other new developments that you're seeing maybe from your chair, from your position in the
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creative industries, let's say the music industry, that you think that other people would be interested
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in maybe some new things that are popping up that you're interested. You're like, oh, this will be
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cool in like, you know, a couple months or a couple years, maybe. Yeah, you know what I think
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it's cool right now too, as like a fan, I'm seeing a lot more of a drift away from, and this is me
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as an artist talking, a drift away from a very polished finished product. Oh, yeah. Where you're,
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you know, you've been working on an album for a year and every song is perfect and your roll
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out is so calculated and all of that, you know, I think there's a big wave of transparency coming
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through from an artistic perspective where you're showing all your failures, you're showing bad
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songs, you're showing good songs, demos, all the behind the scenes and your roll out is not
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necessarily leading up to one big drop, but it's just a bunch of stuff along the way that, you know,
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in this age with music, it's just keeps people engaged all the time.
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Yeah, where do you think that comes from?
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You know, I would want to say social media. Yeah, I do, but you know, it's an attention thing for
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sure, but I also think that fans are kind of demanding more now just because of how much is
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out there. I think it's also a saturation thing. Like I think, you know, there's a ton of artists
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and there's a lot of different projects all the time. Right. I think the way to cut through
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noise that I see people doing is to constantly be
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showing what's going on instead of being precious about the one project in this big release.
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Yes. Yeah. And to that extent, almost being a little bit more on the volume versus,
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or like the quantity versus quality side of things.
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Totally. And it's a tough, tough double H solid, right? Because I think, you know,
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the threshold for quality, the people's, what people want from quality changes with you
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really releasing so much. So yeah, some people might be really happy with the, you know, bare
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bones demo. And it's like, Oh, there's something new and I'm excited for them to finish this product
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and hear the final version compared to the demo. And yes, the demo is really, you know,
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not perfect. It's kind of bad quality. Almost sort of voice note. It's still quality enough for them
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to be like, Oh, this is dope. I love this artist. I'm having, you know, just new information from
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them all the time. Yes. And, you know, I'm writing down right now that the definition of quality is
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changing as well. Yes. You know, in regards to, okay, it doesn't always have to be polished.
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You know, the McGee's of the world can stand out, but also the Beyonce's are still at the top.
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You know, are you crushing? So it's like, I feel in that way, it's a good thing because
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it's not that the quality is going down. It's that there were like almost redefining what that is.
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And I think there's a lot more fans and because there's now almost no limit to the music industry
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now or no, no, no limits to the access rather that there's a lot more room for, for people with
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different tastes and different niches and, you know, to discover so many, so many things because
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there's so many artists and like platforms like Spotify specifically allow for, for discoverability
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and stuff like that. And I think it changes throughout an artist career too. Like that quality,
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you know, and the early stage of your career, you can kind of afford to not be precious.
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You can make demos and you can release demos or, you know, whatever it may be. And then when you
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start getting that audience built up and attraction, people also kind of expect you to play up to the
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size of your audience. Yes. So they are demanding now different level of quality. They want the
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big project. They want the, you know, the big release and all the creative direction behind
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it to be polished and perfect. And yeah, it's like a sliding scale. Yeah. No. And I love that.
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And you mentioned, you mentioned to, to, to that artists starting could be a little bit
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less precious with their demos. And I agree. And, but I also agree with now fans wanting
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the people at the top, let's say their demos as well. Exactly. You saw that this week with Drake,
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right? Like Drake just put out this, you know, 100 gigabyte tape of yes, whatever it was,
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like demos and videos and all this. And it's like a full circle type of moment where it's like,
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all right, you started out, you made it big. And now we want to see you just screw it around again.
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Exactly. Exactly. Break down the wall because people want to want to pull the curtain back
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on, on, on the artists, but also the industry. Exactly. What we're doing with the cloud machine
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podcast, everybody. Nice. Connecting it all back. I wanted to get into the,
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into the bulk of our questions here. So we're here with, with you today to talk specifically,
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you know, about your projects, but also, you know, shine a light on the realities of
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the, the financial sort of part of, of the creative industries and specifically the music industry.
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I want to talk to you first about your journey into accounting and what led you to this career
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path. You know, I think I was unsure is the word I would use when I was starting out my career.
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You know, I didn't really know what I wanted. And I always liked the idea of being in the business
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world or the accounting always came naturally to me. So I thought, okay, let me just start into here.
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I don't want to be trying with numbers all the time. I know like, I like people, I like talking,
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I like, you know, yeah, there's a lot of stereotypes around it. But I thought, you know,
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I'll just give it a try. And then the more I got into it, the more I realized it's more of like a
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people business. So accounting has spoke to me that way where it's like, I'm good with numbers,
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I understand it. And I can see how it applies now to real life. It's not just about bookkeeping or
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it's not just about, you know, journal entries. It's helping people run their business. It's
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helping people manage their money. It's helping people plan for their future, plan for their
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families. That to me is where I love sitting in the accounting world. And over time, it just
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kept going snowball when I committed. And here I am a couple of weeks out from getting the CPA.
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I'm just waiting to get crossed on the results for I think it like a board approval, but
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I'm almost up tilling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're almost there. You're almost there.
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That's it. Now through that, through this, there's this process and, you know, also for also on the
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music side of things, you started this, this your own venture called called Gemini. Can you speak
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to us a little bit more about Gemini? For sure. Yeah. So music has always been a part of me.
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Like I started playing music when I was really young, like three or four. And then through high
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school to art school, there was a band's played in bands and then even through university, like doing
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hardcore accounting almost all the way through. Music was my outlet and it's always been a part
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of me. And then now that I, you know, I'm graduated and we're settled into a career, I
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keep coming back to music. It always, it always comes back to me. And I wanted to blend my worlds
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together a little bit because I think there's a big, you know, gap when it comes to mixing the
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finances with creatives. And, you know, I think there's the poetry behind the name is Gemini
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is like a twin. So it's like the splitting of the right brain with the left brain. And that's
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how the name came. And then, you know, the business itself is, you know, helping artists with their
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creative vision. We do a lot of music, a lot of creativity that way. And then we also want to
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be able to help artists and artistic businesses, creative industry businesses with their finances
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and growing their business as artists, as, you know, entrepreneurs, as just as people growing
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their finance behind the art that they make. Right. And it's not just about the numbers,
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but also strategizing to grow. Exactly. It's a lot of strategy and the numbers help,
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the numbers help you make informed decisions, which is why this blend of music and creativity
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that we're aiming for here, or music and finance that we're aiming for in Gemini is so important
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is it gives artists this very informative financial picture so they can make decisive
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creative decisions, plan out projects, plan out their releases, or plan out your next year in
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your business. Yeah. What inspired you to start the group? And, you know, does it come from basically
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a need? It does. And, you know, part of it is me being lucky knowing finances as well as being
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like a lifelong musician that really, that really did help. And I think it is. I've had a lot of
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conversations with different people throughout the creative industries. And a thing that a lot of
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people are really demanding right now is help with the numbers. Yeah. Like when it comes to grants
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or loan applications or budgeting, forecasting, that type of large financial decision is tough for
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somebody who's not necessarily familiar with numbers all the time. So this ability to breach
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that gap between I'm a creative, I understand your creativity to let me talk about numbers with you
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and help you out with your business and figure out a plan for you to figure out your finances.
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I think that was the demand there. And when it comes to starting me and my business partner,
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Duncan, we've been, you know, working with some capacity on a creative project for the last 10
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years, I'd say, since we were 14 or 15. Right. So we've always been in and out of it in various
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ways, whether it's his project or a band we were in, or, you know, my own solo project or artists
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that we work with. Yeah. This world started building between me and him where we thought,
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okay, we've got something good here. He's very much an expert in music, specialized in production
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and mixing. And I'm very much a songwriter, producer, but like a, accounting, like I always come
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back to accounting. So me and him kind of joined, started a little venture. Fantastic. Now, when
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you, when you do start with a client or you start on a project, how do you assess the
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financial health of a creative business? And what are some of the key indicators that you would look
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for, but also that, you know, maybe some of our listeners could look for in themselves as well.
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A lot of the health of a business, as compared to just an individual artist, I think is cash
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flow. It's the most important metric that you have is how much cash are you bringing into your
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business and how assistively are you able to bring it in and how reliable is that source? I think
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a lot of longevity that you can get out of business is by properly managing your cash.
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So if you have a very sporadic income, that could also be totally fine. If your cash coming in
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supports the cash going in. So that's the first thing I look for. The second thing is how much
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debt load do you have? If you're very in debt, how likely are you to be able to pay it off,
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you know, in the short term horizon versus the long term horizon? What do you use that financing for?
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Those types of things all indicate the health of the business.
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For just to shine a light on what I just said, the way you manage
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like loans, for instance, you shouldn't be taking out a long term loan to finance your operations.
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It's right. Your operations should find the cash to cover those short term expenses, whereas a
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long term loan is better for buying like a building or, you know, pieces of equipment,
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like computers or any machinery that you need to keep your business running and keep offering
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services. Your visas? Your visas. Exactly. The credit card is the perfect one. Oh, sorry. I meant your
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I meant like working visas for the states. I'm just hinting at just a loan that we just got at
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eights for ourselves. But yes, also your credit cards. Sure. How important is budgeting for artists
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and creative entrepreneurs? I don't know if you have, you know, we don't need to get two into the
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weeds of it, but how important is budgeting? But do you have some tips around that?
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Totally. I think budgeting is very important. It keeps you accountable. And that's the plain and
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simple explanation for that is being able to plan out where you're spending your money and then
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sticking to it. Yes. It's a big thing. So any artists who are planning out a big project release,
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like we just had to do a bit of a budget for my own project, where it all grew with planning a
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the whole release of all the singles to the EP. Yeah. Mix engineers over time, they add up
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mastering engineers over time, they add up art, you know, live videos, any, any type of thing
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like that. You have to plan for these costs when you're going to your up to your release.
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And something to note too is it's not ever really perfect. A budget is an estimate.
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Right. And I think a really helpful skill or helpful tool, I would say when it comes to budgeting
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is something called a sensitivity analysis, where you have a worst case scenario budget.
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So let's say you're over expense on everything and you budget for how bad can this get?
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Right. Your average. So you're, you know, your neutral case, where it's a little bit of this,
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I can see this going over budget. You have to be really realistic here with, you know, how you
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see the project going when it comes to costs. Yeah. And then the worst case scenario where
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or the best case scenario where you save a ton of money on everything costs are low. I don't
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have to spend this. I can ask the favor is all that kind of stuff. And then you kind of get a
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better picture of where you land from a budgeting perspective. And then with businesses, I think
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the, the budgeting process is very important, especially in the early stage businesses, because
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that shows you how to plan for your growth. And it shows you where your
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expenses might be coming up down the future that you might not be considering in current day
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operations. Yes. You know, six months, we need to have X amount of cash to buy our visas.
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Like we have a big tour planned out and we need to be able to work in states like we have to,
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you know, cut off on some spending now. So now I see it laid out in the future. Totally. I can
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see that coming and, you know, plan for reporting very, very good skill to have as being in the
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budget. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I wrote down and, you know, highlighted the word taxes.
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Because, you know, everybody's favorite. It's a scary word, especially, especially for, for creative
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individuals who potentially have businesses. You know, I had my first tax sort of return
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sort of year, maybe, maybe not return actually, but, but yeah, I had a bill for sure. Still
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paying off. But I just want to ask you about some tax strategies or tips you often recommend to
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creatives or artists or creative businesses to better manage their finances and specifically
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their taxes, you know, for the end of the year fiscal year. You bet. Yeah. And you know what,
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the thing with taxes is you can't get away from it. It's a certain thing you're going to have.
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Well, you shouldn't, you shouldn't get away from it. You shouldn't. Yeah.
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You might be breaking a couple of laws. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, no, you know, I think
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knowing that it's coming is an important thing. And every year, April 30th is your personal
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tax deadline. And then depending on when your year end is for your business, it's six months
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after that. So, and then, you know, it gets complicated when you start earning money and
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you have to pay installments, but talk to an accountant. The, the advice I have, I would say
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is to track your expenses. Track, keep track of your, you know, paper receipts are kind of nitpicky,
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right? Because you could lose them and, you know, they just, it's hard if you're spending a lot of
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money and keeping a tab on all of those expenses is tough. But yeah, having a good bookkeeping
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software really keeps you in check because it links to your bank. So anything that goes through
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your bank, you can see and then your accountant at the end of the year can plan your taxes accordingly,
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or you can do it yourself as well. Right. The, the other thing I would say is
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HST and GST, that whole relationship between charging and paying for it, like when you purchase
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anything, you're getting charged HST and GST. A lot of things that people often forget is if you're
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collecting GST, you have a duty to remit that back to the government. So that none of that GST
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should stay in your hands. That's all government money. And they want it back. And they're very
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particular about how much of that GST you owe and they want to see every penny of it. Yeah.
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But you also have expenses, whether that's a personal business. So if you're an artist,
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you know, you have, you should set up a sole proprietorship and start tracking your expenses
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accordingly so you could pay your taxes properly at the year end. Or for businesses, you might have
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different input costs, like, you know, office supplies, any kind of accounting software that
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you use for your business, any expensive release to your business, chances are you're paying HST on
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that. Yeah. And you can get that HST back. So they net out against each other. So your, your bill
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at the end of the year shouldn't be too daunting. It's a little bit less than you might think
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because you get these input tax credits at the end of the year.
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Yeah, exactly. If you've, if you've spent close to what, what you received in taxes.
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Exactly. That's a good caveat. Yes. If you're, if you're earning a lot, you still might have a good
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bill. Yes. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. It's a pros and cons for sure. That's right. How do you help
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creative businesses navigate financial regulations and tax laws, especially in an industry with so
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many unique income streams, you know, there's, there's so many things to like sort of think about
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and in the industry is always changing as well. You're absolutely right. And it's on a
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client by client basis, I would say, or at least by the business basis, it's, you know,
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first, I would say, let's get a big understanding of where your numbers, where your cash is coming
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from, where are you earning income? That's important. And then let's tap into what industry
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you're actually working in and what regulations you have from a tax perspective, because chances
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are a lot of the tax regulations apply universally. There's very few instances, I would say, in
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like startup businesses in the creative industry or even artists where, you know, your tax laws
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apply differently to you specifically compared to everybody else who's, you know, running a
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sole proprietorship. Yes. We're looking for income. The government wants to pay their tax on that or
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get their tax from that income. And then you're looking for eligible deductions. So any expenses
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that you have that relate to your business, chances are those all funnel under the same tax
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legislation as active business income. The other thing to note too is if you have, you know,
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any kind of investments in your business or if you are investing inside of a business, inside of a
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corporation specifically, the taxing of those passive assets is not favorable. And that's
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because the government wants you to be using that cash to help the economy to fulfill your
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business mission of, you know, whatever service you offer, they want that. They don't want you
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just parking money you make and an earning dividends on it. Yeah. So, you know, that's what I mean.
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It's a case by case basis on, you know, what tax regulations apply to you. And yeah, they're all
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pretty con in this industry. Yeah. Fantastic. So yeah, it really depends on how you're spending
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money. It is what I'm sorry, how you're how you're earning money is what I'm hearing. And
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because the podcast touches a lot of different listeners, it's important to know how you're
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making money and in what way, right? Because I'm sure that there are different
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tax regulations for people who are, let's say, songwriting in the States.
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That's right. So there's a lot of complications when it comes to cross-border work.
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Yes. And a lot of that comes to where the services are rendered and where you got paid.
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Yes. But then everybody has this home base of Canada where, you know, you're taxed on your
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worldwide income. If you're a Canadian citizen, you're doing business in Canada,
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there's treaties between countries that end up letting you get taxed solely in Canada. So you
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don't have to worry about a lot of these other countries tax laws and regulations that way.
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It all comes, flows back to you in Canada and you pay your tax.
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Fantastic. Yes.
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I wanted to ask you a little bit more about your creative side and balancing all that stuff.
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How are you balancing your role as an accountant and not an entrepreneur and also with Vertigo Blue?
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Yeah, you know, it's a lot. It is. And I find the balancing act is often not all at once.
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I work a lot in sprints where last summer I had my accounting exams and everything had to get put on
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back burner. And, you know, it's full focus for two months. I'm at home studying and getting
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these things done and actively doing accounting all the time. It's where my full brain energy is
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focused. And then once that was done, it was like, oh, time for a break. Let me do what I like to do
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here. And music came in and it was like, okay, now I've got a little bit of time to get the business
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up and running and let's push into this way with songwriting, about trying to get rooms with people,
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that type of thing. And it all kind of goes like this. You're always playing catch up to the other
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thing over time and that's how it all gets balanced. It's tough. It is tough. And you know what? I
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also have a personality where I always have to be busy. Yeah. So that definitely helps. Yeah.
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I appreciate the downtime, but I like working. I hear you and I'm the same way. It's always,
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it's always like juggling a bunch of projects and making sure that you always have maybe an extra
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hand to catch that ball that's falling. But sometimes that extra hand is your support system as
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well. So that's it. It's that network of people. Like I know my girlfriend helps me out at time too.
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And she's been very supportive about how much actually going on outside of just the work thing
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too. Cause she's the same way. She's very active person in her off time from work. And with the
376
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:56,080
business, it's like, yeah, we've got a really great team of people in the community who are able to
377
00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:03,200
help us out all the time and keep things rolling. And we're always happy to go both ways, right?
378
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:09,360
It's like, let's just keep building each other up when you get things moving. Yeah. Fantastic. I
379
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:17,840
want to ask you about financial planning for creatives. And this section is, it excites me
380
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:26,080
because I think it's one of the more interesting parts of, you know, of just my day to day right
381
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:32,560
now. And just, just running the eights with my business partner and day to day shout out Nate.
382
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:36,000
I know he's been your friend of yours for a long time as well.
383
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:37,360
A long time. Yeah.
384
00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:45,440
What a great guy. Oh yeah. Legendary man for sure. How do you advise creatives on balancing,
385
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:50,080
saving money with reinvesting it into their projects or businesses?
386
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:59,040
Yeah. You know, I think the big thing to consider is always how is this cash going to work for you?
387
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:04,400
Right. Where saving money sometimes is the way to do things if you foresee a big purchase in the
388
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:12,480
future or you need income to maintain your life, that type of thing. Reinvesting, you know, the
389
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:19,120
work is thrown around loosely, but you should always be thinking about your return. So if you're
390
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,160
reinvesting into your business, those savings that you've made, that cash you're going to
391
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:26,080
is precious right now. It's the most valuable thing you have when it comes to growing or
392
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:33,200
earning is that utilization of your cash. If you reinvest, you should be putting that money into
393
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:39,280
things that actually help grow your business, like new equipment or that next project that you've
394
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:43,840
can put some money behind to push your career further or things like that. You should be
395
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:50,160
thinking about return, not necessarily just putting money back into the business and not
396
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:56,160
seeing anything out of it. Saving is also great because it's back to budgeting. It helps you
397
00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:00,400
plan for things in the future and it gives you a little bit of a cushion. Right. So let's say
398
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:05,760
if things don't flow the way you expect it to flow, you do have this, this backburn of cash
399
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,680
that you could kind of dip into and helps for you when it comes to getting through those tougher
400
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:18,400
months. Yes. I don't know. I forget his name. I think I might be thrown out a random name here,
401
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:23,440
but is it Dave Ramsey? Is that his name? The mortgage guy. The mortgage guy. Yeah.
402
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:30,960
That guy hates that. Yeah. He hates that. Yeah. But I keep on coming back. I don't know why I think
403
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:35,920
I'm thinking of this now, but he's always saying that you should have like, I think he says like
404
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:44,160
three months, three months of expenses saved up. Like it's like one of his like six steps to like
405
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:50,720
financial freedom or whatever he says. You know, and it just, it just funny for you, is there,
406
00:39:50,720 --> 00:40:00,000
is there like, are there some, maybe some steps or some levels to, to even looking at like the
407
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:06,720
financial health of a business, like where they're at in regards to even saving or investing? Like,
408
00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:11,280
are there things that you could point out like quite easily when looking at a business that
409
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:16,480
you'd be like, okay, they're reinvesting properly. Let's say. Yeah. Totally. I think,
410
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:24,880
well, you know, the first thing is from a planning perspective, it's good to always
411
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:31,520
think about how you're splitting that money up that you receive when you earn income. So, you know,
412
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:39,200
the golden rule I think is 20% savings, 30% wants, 50% needs. I could be screwing that one up a little
413
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:45,840
bit, but there you go. Planning where that cash actually gets allocated to your personal life.
414
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,880
And then you can also do the same thing within your business where it's like, you know, we want
415
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:52,960
to build up a little bit of like pushing here. Let's start saving a little bit off of each
416
00:40:54,400 --> 00:41:00,720
sale that we make to put aside and plan for those times there. You know, the three months is,
417
00:41:00,720 --> 00:41:10,320
you know, tried and tested. Right. That's the same, right? Yeah, like tried and tried and
418
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:16,960
true or tried and tested. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, you know, that's enough of a time where, you know,
419
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:23,120
if everything goes wrong, you have this buffer that you can, you know, pull into and then find
420
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:29,760
the next opportunity like another client, let's say for your business or another project or really
421
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:36,320
hit the boots if you need to get a job, whatever it may be, you know, it's something, it's a safety
422
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:41,920
buffer. When I'm thinking about health of a business when it comes to reinvesting, I'm thinking
423
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:47,360
about what are the operations of this business? What do they do? How do they earn money? And are
424
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:52,720
their purchases like these reinvestment opportunities that they've had, are they helping them get to
425
00:41:52,720 --> 00:41:57,520
that point? Are they fulfilling the goal of this business? Is this something that helps them earn
426
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:03,120
money? Whereas, you know, if I see a huge expense on like meals and entertainment, you're taking out
427
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:09,280
artist friends for, you know, fine dining dinners every day. Right. Is that reinvesting or is that
428
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:15,520
just blown cash, you know, that type of thing. Totally. It's about how you manage it towards your
429
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:25,600
goals. Yeah. Fantastic. On that, I want to ask if you had any thoughts on or advice on how creatives
430
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:32,240
who might be dealing with debt, you know, especially, especially if you're talking about like early
431
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:43,200
slash young artists, maybe student debt, you know, maybe, you know, just like starting a business
432
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:50,240
debt, you got things like that. Like how do you have any advice on that and dealing with that?
433
00:42:50,240 --> 00:42:57,520
Absolutely. You know, I think the best way to deal with debt is taking care of your expensive
434
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:02,720
debt first. And when I say expensive debt, that means high interest rate. So if you're paying
435
00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:06,560
a lot every month in these interest rates, you know, the typical one is a credit card. Your credit
436
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:12,960
card will charge you anywhere from 20 to 30% a month on an era annually on any balance at the
437
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:19,040
end of the month. Right. So if you've got, you know, stacks of debt, let's say you've got a student
438
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:23,360
loan, a car loan, and you've got a huge credit card balance that you're trying to pay down,
439
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:29,360
prioritize the one that's costing you the most and get rid of that. But that'll save you the most
440
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:34,880
money in the long time. And then you can start chipping away at each level. So the next one
441
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:39,200
would probably be your car loan and then the student loans are often, you know, pretty cheap in
442
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:43,840
terms of debt rate, but or interest rate. But yeah, that would be my advice. Tackle the big dog
443
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:50,320
first, get rid of that, work down slowly. And then, you know, debt in businesses is a little
444
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:56,000
different because debt can actually help you get financing and move ahead. If you take out
445
00:43:56,000 --> 00:44:01,520
debt to earn money, you know, your goal is to actually earn more of a return on that debt than
446
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:07,840
you're paying an interest. So that cash that you use to buy that new piece of equipment,
447
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:13,440
you're hoping that piece of equipment can help you earn more than your line of credit rate or
448
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:18,320
your financing rate or whatever it may be. So that's a little differently. And that's all
449
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:22,960
comes down to that all comes down to the personal comfort level. Some people are very risk averse.
450
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:26,880
Some people don't like debt, they have bad experiences with that. Do what you're comfortable
451
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:30,240
with. I think when you're comfortable with your money, you can make better decisions.
452
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:35,120
And there's no reason to be going against the grain on that. There's no right answer.
453
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:40,560
Debt can be a great tool. But if you're not comfortable with it, it can also be detrimental.
454
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:48,400
Right. We talked about it a little bit earlier, but can you talk about the importance of diversifying
455
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:55,200
income streams for creatives and how you could help your clients with that?
456
00:44:55,920 --> 00:45:01,760
Yeah, you bet. And we do a ton of different services through Gemini too, where we do the
457
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:06,400
songwriting, music production, artist development. And then we also now have this kind of financial
458
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:12,800
role, expertise type of business. So it is coming out of it too, where we have different ways of
459
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:17,680
helping and sticking to our goal of being this like creative and financial blend of a company.
460
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:26,560
And those diverse income streams help you stay more consistent throughout the year.
461
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:31,600
Because sometimes, you know, your music side might be very busy. Other times it's a little drier and
462
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:38,240
your finance side kicks out. Or the mix engineering. It always levels out and you never know where the
463
00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:42,960
best source is going to be for those months. When it comes to diversifying as an artist,
464
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:50,000
something that can get really fruitful is merch sales with physical object sales too.
465
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:57,360
When you're touring or you're selling, selling out shows, you can earn a lot of income just from
466
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:03,520
merch. And then you're also earning income from your music, from your loyalties, from, you know,
467
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:11,200
the show itself. That type of diversification is very helpful. Because it doesn't limit you.
468
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:16,400
It actually is very open to what you can. And you know, there's a quote from,
469
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:21,360
or not a quote, but there's like philosophy. And I was talking to somebody recently about it.
470
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:29,920
But there's a very, very starched difference between Western business philosophy compared to
471
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:38,080
Eastern atmosphere business philosophy. Where a lot of these Asian companies are actually offering
472
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:43,440
a ton of services like Samsung, for example, sells phones, but they also sell, you know,
473
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:48,880
tanks and helicopters. And then they also sell groceries, which is crazy. So they're kind of
474
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:56,640
Yamaha as well. Exactly. Yamaha with movers, pianos, you know, drums. It's crazy. It's crazy. So
475
00:46:56,640 --> 00:47:01,840
that's, and you know, you don't see a lot of that in Western businesses because it's hyper fixated on
476
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:07,600
specializing. Right. Getting really good at one thing and then selling on one thing.
477
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:13,200
Whereas I think a lot of developing businesses, you kind of have to try a lot of things, diversify
478
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:18,000
where you're making your income and see what really sticks for you. Yes. See what you're really
479
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:22,880
good at and what you enjoy doing too. And that's a way to kind of find your path. And when it comes
480
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:30,080
to a creative and when it comes to running a business as well. Great. I wanted to ask you,
481
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:36,000
we've been talking a lot about creatives and, you know, advice for creatives and stuff. I want to
482
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:45,680
ask a little bit about maybe there's some listeners listening for some advice on the accounting,
483
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:52,240
sorry, accountants and entrepreneurial side as well. Are there skills that you believe are
484
00:47:52,240 --> 00:47:57,440
essential for success in accounting, particularly in the creative industries?
485
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:03,760
You know, I think I mentioned it earlier too, but it's really about people first business.
486
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:09,440
Yes. Really successful people in finance and in this world of numbers are actually really great
487
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:18,960
people. People. People. Yeah. That's right. They are good people. They know how to talk and
488
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:25,120
they know how to develop meaningful relationships with their clients and with other businesses
489
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:34,160
by breaking that gap between the complexity of numbers and their understanding, the client's
490
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:39,360
understanding. That type of relationship where you're able to communicate this idea of money and
491
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:44,960
something that you might not be totally familiar with to your client in a way that everybody
492
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:52,320
understands is so valuable. There are other hard skills like being able. You have to know your
493
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:56,080
accounting. You have to get really involved in your education and get through the exams and
494
00:48:56,080 --> 00:49:01,040
compete that way. But then running a business, I feel like everything comes back down to
495
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:05,760
relationships. I think relationships are the most important thing in the world. It's just a
496
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:12,800
person-to-person connection. And if you're in the accounting world, being a detail oriented person,
497
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:19,440
and when you get your certification, you kind of become this voice of expertise. That's what
498
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:23,760
people look for. They want help with making decisions. They want somebody to take the weight
499
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:27,280
off their shoulders when it comes to these complex things and being able to offer that
500
00:49:28,240 --> 00:49:34,640
source of shirting or assurance is very important. And be confident in yourself,
501
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:44,160
of course, with your skills is cute. That's great. Can you share any mistakes? Or maybe not
502
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:51,280
mistakes, but maybe a few missteps or some early learning opportunities that you got
503
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:57,280
maybe along your journey, your path, and what you sort of gained from them?
504
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:06,560
You bet. My accounting journey was not all uphill. It was very rocky. And I went to write my exams.
505
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:11,760
You go through all these education stages and rigorous testing, and then I went into my exam
506
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:17,280
feeling overconfident. I wasn't taking studying as seriously as I should have. I was letting
507
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:25,360
other personal things take priority to this goal I had, like music or friends or whatever it could
508
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:32,160
have been. And I ended up failing my first round. I ended up rolling through and I failed. And that's
509
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:38,800
a moment where it kind of hits your ego. It checks you. And big knock to the confidence. And I'm
510
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:44,480
thinking, oh, should I continue on this career path? Maybe I'm not meant to be this way. Maybe I'm
511
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:52,400
not a numbers person. I should pivot because I failed. But I'm a big believer in persistence.
512
00:50:52,400 --> 00:51:00,400
And I think it's just part of me and everything that I do. Continuing to go, press on and keep it
513
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:08,000
moving and keep trying, even though I've experienced failure, it really saved my accounting
514
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:14,640
trajectory because I went back the next time. No one had a big fail. Let me get this. Let me take
515
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:23,360
care of this part of my life. I adjusted and studied up and did my thing and got through it. That was
516
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:27,760
the biggest failure in the accounting side of things, the biggest mistake, misstep, I'd say.
517
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:33,680
When it comes to running a business, I've started a couple. So a few years ago, I started this
518
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:40,960
spice blend. Yes, that's right. So it was interesting. It was a nice pandemic thing where I'm
519
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:45,760
obsessed with trying to build something and create a product. I was always obsessed with it. I was like,
520
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:51,920
I got to find something and spice blend became the thing. But what I failed to do is prioritize sales.
521
00:51:52,880 --> 00:52:00,480
And I got too obsessed with actual product and the branding and the look and the way the jar sat
522
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:07,920
and how the label was on the jar and all the other things that I forgot. The North Star is to sell
523
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:12,800
the product, not to make the product over and over and over again. Right. You've got to sell.
524
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:18,320
Yes. So neglecting the sales side of the business as somebody who creates the business is,
525
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:24,160
has been the biggest misstep in that one. And I'm trying to avoid it now going forward
526
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:30,240
with other ventures is let's start talking to people, let's start selling and really get involved
527
00:52:30,240 --> 00:52:36,640
in the selling process of this product. You have to have a great product. There's no way around that.
528
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:39,200
You want to be able to stand behind your product and then you offer something.
529
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:46,240
You also have to be able to sell it, get in front of people and show them that you can add this value.
530
00:52:46,240 --> 00:52:49,680
You can give them something that has some kind of value is very important.
531
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:57,840
That's great. I mean, yeah, it's important to even for me throughout this conversation to
532
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:03,600
like check myself through it, you know, and it's some great reminders and some really great.
533
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:10,880
What I'm saying is I'm just giving you your flowers on what you're saying. And it's hard sometimes
534
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:20,160
as an entrepreneur to take the step towards, okay, it's ready. You know, it's scary. It's kind of like
535
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:25,440
this big grand reveal of, you know, I've been working behind the scenes so long on this thing and
536
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:30,320
this idea and this business and now I have to present it to people. It's scary. It's scary to
537
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:37,520
bridge that gap and really get out there and sell it. But so important. Yes. Yeah. And you know,
538
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:44,240
I haven't I haven't personally done any. I don't have much experience on the on the product.
539
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:50,320
You know, services versus product. Although, you know what? Now I think about it maybe on a lot of
540
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:56,400
the art, the rig building. Yes. Yeah, of course. But also the the artist side of things, you know,
541
00:53:56,400 --> 00:54:02,880
when I have bands and stuff like that, that that that is more on the mentality mentality of product.
542
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:11,200
But even now having eights and stuff, it's there's only so many things that you can do before you
543
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:16,960
just need to start talking to people about it. That's exactly it. And it's very noticeable when
544
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:23,360
you hit that stage to all of a sudden you'd be like, okay, now I need money. Totally. Totally.
545
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:28,640
And you just you just cross your fingers that it's not too late. That's right. When you take
546
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:35,600
that step. Fantastic. I want to ask you how you stay updated on industry trends, strategies,
547
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:42,720
you know, tax laws, different things that are happening, maybe in the background of a lot of
548
00:54:42,720 --> 00:54:46,640
what people think about in their in their business. But you're you're basically at the
549
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:50,560
forefront of that, you know, you got it. And you know what? I'm in it every day. So like I
550
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:58,560
am. Yes, I work accounting all day. So it's it's always there. Right. When you're dealing with
551
00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:06,800
different types of businesses all the time, or you're just curious about the accounting side
552
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:11,120
of things, the information just naturally flows to you because you're curious. Right. A lot of a
553
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:18,640
lot of great, you know, tax updates that I've had are actually from being interested in stocks and
554
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:24,640
investing. Sure. So I see a lot of these these companies, there's headlines and you know, I'm
555
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:30,320
kind of tapped into it when I when I get curious about something, I just kind of go the distance
556
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:35,920
with it. Yeah. And then you see a lot of tax regulation changes through financial headlines or
557
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:43,600
any kind of online articles, you start getting the whisperings of new tax changes. Like the biggest
558
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:48,080
one, for instance, is the new capital gains tax, where they're changing it from a 50% inclusion
559
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:54,000
rate to a 66% inclusion rate, which was huge because a lot of people and a lot of people's
560
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:59,360
parents and family members and everything have these retirement savings that they plan to use
561
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:06,560
when they retire and to to fund their lifestyle. Right. Once they stop working, this change in
562
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:12,320
tax rate was on the front page for everybody there because they're thinking, okay, now I'm
563
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:17,760
reducing how much income I actually get because I have to exactly have to pay more tax now at the
564
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:23,600
end of the year. So that you immediately hit a 16% loss was just something that everybody cares about.
565
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:28,800
Yeah. That one goes the distance with that type of thing. Another cool resource I've actually
566
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:35,040
been finding lately is when I'm not sure about something or, you know, trying to just do my due
567
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:40,640
diligence and learn about an industry or learn about type of business, I use chat GPT. Yes.
568
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:46,480
I get the input and then I get from there, I'm inspired to be like, okay, I need to learn more
569
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:50,880
about this and I need to learn more about this and then I can do the dives that way. That funnel
570
00:56:50,880 --> 00:57:02,640
of AI is just a creative tool. I love it. Man, I love chat GPT. I gotta say. Me too. It's become my
571
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:08,000
Google. Me too. I almost solely use it because it gives you a human response. It doesn't give you a
572
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:13,440
bunch of web pages. Yes. It gives you a, hey, here's what you need to know. And then from there,
573
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:18,400
you can decide. It's like, okay, now I need to go down different radicals. Yes. It gives it right to
574
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:26,560
you. Yeah, no, it is really fantastic. And just not even to, well, just even in a conversation,
575
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:32,560
you know, it's like for me, I learned so much from just having a back and forth dialogue with,
576
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:38,640
you know, in this case, a machine, but it just makes for me reflect on how I'm asking the question,
577
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:45,680
what I'm inputting, what it's giving back to me. And there's been so much, or even it's like,
578
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:52,560
even if like I'm currently designing, well, we are currently designing the eights website,
579
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:59,920
redesigning. And it's just like, okay, here's this tagline or here's this paragraph. How can we,
580
00:57:59,920 --> 00:58:07,360
how can we modify it a little bit to, you know, be shaped in this sort of in this way? Or how,
581
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:13,200
you know, like, take this, yeah, yeah, exactly. keyword dense, where it just hits out all of
582
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:17,200
these markers, we're trying to hit our target audience, and it just nails it. Yeah, it's,
583
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:25,840
it's great. And obviously, like 95 plus percent of the time, there are edits to make, you know,
584
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:31,920
but, but it's, it's great to just, just get a dialogue going. And you bet it gets the gears
585
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:36,480
turning. Yes, I use it a lot for writing actually, when I'm trying to write something and you're
586
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:42,960
staring at a blank page, right? And you don't know where to start. I always go, I always go to chat
587
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:49,200
gbt to get just a jump. I don't ever copy because you can tell when it's a chat gbt email that you
588
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:53,600
get, you know, you can just read right through the computer. Right. It's like, they didn't put
589
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:58,240
any time into this. This is what copy paste for sure. Right. But it gets you thinking about how
590
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:03,360
to phrase things or how to structure your answers or your responses or anything. It's just such a
591
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:11,360
great tool. Yeah. Fantastic. I want to just, just generally, maybe, maybe it's something that we
592
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:18,800
didn't talk about on, you know, throughout our conversation. What is your top financial advice
593
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:24,400
for any creative entrepreneur or artist or just, you know, individual out there?
594
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:29,840
Is there something we missed? You know, I think,
595
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:39,760
I've got two, I guess, I've got two. My top advice for a business for sure is cash is king.
596
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:44,720
Always value your cash. Don't try to get rid of cash as soon as you get it. You can keep a balance
597
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:50,560
in your bank account. You can be very strategic on how you spend that money. It's hard to get
598
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:57,280
and it's easy to lose. Really prioritize the cash. The second thing is start investing young.
599
00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:02,560
When you're a young person, you learn about your registered accounts in Canada. So if you're a
600
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:09,200
young person, open up a TfSA, open up an RSP, open up the FHSA. You don't need to contribute all of it
601
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:14,880
or to all of them. You don't need to contribute the max to all of them. Just start and put a
602
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:19,760
little bit in every month and, you know, talk to people you know who are also doing it.
603
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:26,960
The best strategy I have, if you have no previous knowledge on investing or banking or
604
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:33,280
any kind of long-term investment savings, buy an ETF for the index and invest in your TfSA.
605
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:40,000
It will save you a ton of pain when you're older because you've got this long-time buildup of money
606
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:43,840
that you've just been put away for yourself. It's like a gift. It's like a reward at the end of your
607
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:50,080
life. You get this little bit of cash, you've been put away all your life and yeah, it start young.
608
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:52,560
The younger you start, the better off it would be when you get it with it.
609
01:00:54,480 --> 01:01:02,160
Fantastic. It is a great advice and I echo that advice not as a financial individual,
610
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:07,600
but just having done it over the past few years, it is really great.
611
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:14,800
I want to ask you, you know, we touched a little bit on it as well, but how you manage your, you
612
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:21,680
know, your creative time between specifically the business and Vertigo Blue because I know you've,
613
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:27,360
I know Vertigo Blue's sort of been, I don't want to say and correct me if I'm wrong here, but
614
01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:34,080
you've had a lot of different priorities a lot. I sure have. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And how you're managing
615
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:42,320
Vertigo Blue specifically? You know, music has always been this escape for me. It's like my hobby,
616
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:49,360
but not a hobby. It's something I'm always trying to do because it's my release. It's like my
617
01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:56,000
second home, I feel like. And it's almost my first home because it's been something I've
618
01:01:56,000 --> 01:02:01,600
like for so long, something I love, something I always hold music dearly. And at any point in my
619
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:08,480
life, I plan on having music involved completely through it. Right. Balancing it again, you know,
620
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:16,400
there's stages that I go through like seasons and, you know, the accounting I had to spread through
621
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:20,560
and now with building this business up, I knew I had to spread through this and the whole team is
622
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:25,200
behind it. We're really trying to grow this business and, you know, over the past few months,
623
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:31,680
we've been able to pull a little bit more time creatively into the Vertigo Blue project and
624
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:37,200
it gets some great singles together and, you know, have some fun. This is me having fun. This is me,
625
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:41,840
you know, hanging out with friends and making something cool together that we can always share.
626
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:50,000
That has its time for priority and the consistency will come as everything else
627
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:54,880
becomes consistent as well too. So these stages of balancing act between three things are really
628
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:59,600
tough, especially if you're managing, you know, a full-time job with, you know, trying to start a
629
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:04,880
business and then still trying to be creative. That's a burden. And, you know, sometimes I feel guilty
630
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:12,960
for not being so active in them all the time and always on and always working and all of that.
631
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:20,160
All of that. It's tough, but you have to find the balance that's comfortable for yourself,
632
01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:25,600
I would say. Yeah. Find your seasons. Find where you need to spread, where you need to prioritize
633
01:03:25,600 --> 01:03:29,840
and then always find time for the things that make you happy and feel alive.
634
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:39,680
That's great. Do you have any tools that you use to balance? Is it just like sort of a mindset
635
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:45,840
thing, you know, being comfortable with, okay, I'll do this like, but only next month kind of thing?
636
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:53,200
That's right. You know, I think it's a, for sure, mentality thing because, you know, I've had,
637
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:58,160
you know, different calendars and different time types of ways that I organize my time
638
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:06,880
between these projects. But I think the mentality is I want all of these things and I'm willing to
639
01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:12,960
do what it takes to make it happen, but I can't sacrifice my health to do it. And I think that
640
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:18,800
shift that I had where it's, I can do all, I can do everything, but not all at once is,
641
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:26,160
was the key to me to be more successful at all of the individual things in my life is, you know,
642
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:32,800
taking time and taking care of one thing at a time, but knowing that you have this goal of doing
643
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:39,360
a lot is important. Right. All of it. That's right. Fantastic. I did just because we're talking
644
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:47,200
about it, any future aspirations for Vertigo Blue yourself, Jim and I? Definitely. You know, Vertigo
645
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:54,720
Blue, I want to be a, I want to be playing shows. I want to build a community around that, our project
646
01:04:54,720 --> 01:05:04,400
of, you know, new music and a new feeling of alternative hip hop and yeah, and rock and bringing
647
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:12,800
in those types of sounds to a wide audience. You know, I want it to appeal to a lot of people. I
648
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:18,560
want it to just be this friendly upbeat, fun type of music that, you know, you can build a community
649
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:26,320
around it. I always love that about music and it just brings people together. Yeah. With accounting
650
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:34,400
and with Gemini, I want to grow Gemini into the go to full artist service agency that I know we
651
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:40,400
have the potential to get there and we're working on it tirelessly over the past few months to get
652
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:46,000
it there, but we want artists to take control of their finances. We want artists to build the art
653
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:51,600
that they've always visioned for their projects, build up their vision, realize their vision and
654
01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:58,960
then have a team of people behind them to support the finances behind that project. Right. That's
655
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:06,800
the goal there. Go to and then accounting is, I always want to just be learning more about
656
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:11,600
accounting, building up that career and that financial expertise because the more I learn and
657
01:06:11,600 --> 01:06:16,160
the more curious I am about the things in accounting and the more I'm able to help people, the more
658
01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:23,280
satisfied I feel with my career and, you know, helping people with their numbers can change their
659
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:27,920
life. And I think that's something that's really great about accounting is you can really help a
660
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:31,120
lot of people profoundly. Yeah. What about individually?
661
01:06:31,120 --> 01:06:42,080
That's sometimes the toughest one. Yeah. I haven't put too much thought into that.
662
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:51,040
You know, I want to have a family. I think that's something that I've shifted my mind on in the
663
01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:58,800
past few years is, you know, I want to become a dad and to raise kids my own and to be a good
664
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:06,400
husband and, you know, having a good family life, I think is really important, especially for people
665
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:13,040
who are hyperfixated on business. It's, you know, your family is your support system, your family
666
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:16,240
is the people who really care about you and are there for you, whether or not your business is
667
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:24,080
winning or losing or your art is winning or losing. It's your family. And in the past few years, I've
668
01:07:24,080 --> 01:07:32,240
really shifted on my priorities on being a family oriented person for sure. So I think that's the
669
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:41,360
answer. No, no, no, it is a fantastic. It is a great answer. I feel a lot the same way.
670
01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:48,080
There's just listening to podcasts, people talk about it. And just lately over the past few years,
671
01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:53,920
like yourself, it's just, you know, the kids don't care if you didn't get that contract, that work,
672
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:57,120
or whatever, you know, they want, they want, they want to help with their homework or like
673
01:07:57,120 --> 01:08:03,200
things like that. So I'm striving, I'm striving to do the same in regards to, you know, as of right
674
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:10,160
now, building a good foundation so that, you know, when, when the kids do come around, whenever that
675
01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:16,160
moment is, you know, it's, it'll be good for them, but also for myself, you know, you bet. Yeah,
676
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:24,320
it gives you a reason to just go that much harder every time. Yes. Or eventual, eventual
677
01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:32,640
amounts to feed. That's right. I want to wrap up the, this 80th episode of the Cloud Machine
678
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:37,680
podcast, which is crazy to think about. That's great. What an honor. Yeah. Yeah. Round number.
679
01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:43,040
That's sweet. Thank you. Thanks for being here. I want to wrap it up with one of the games that
680
01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:49,600
we play in the podcast. Maybe it's your first time listening to the Cloud Machine podcast, but
681
01:08:50,400 --> 01:08:56,560
we play a few games on the pod this week. I decided to play the dream fest game with Chris
682
01:08:56,560 --> 01:09:07,120
murmur here, basically allowing him to basically design or dream about his ideal festival. So
683
01:09:07,120 --> 01:09:14,320
I'm going to ask Chris who the artists are, you know, where it's going to happen, you know,
684
01:09:14,320 --> 01:09:21,920
what era, what decade does the festival have a theme maybe, you know, and what is one food or
685
01:09:21,920 --> 01:09:26,560
beverage that would be served at the event that would best represent Chris just as a fun one.
686
01:09:27,600 --> 01:09:34,080
So Chris, please get us started on this. Can I ask you about the artists at the festival?
687
01:09:34,080 --> 01:09:40,880
Yeah, you know what? I had to really think about this one. But I would want, I think,
688
01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:48,480
the opener to be a Charlie XCX DJ set boiler room style. I think that would be an absolute blast.
689
01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:58,000
Here is the absolute craziest pivot. I want title fight to reunite and play
690
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:03,600
the middle of the set and play it absolutely insane hardcore show right in the middle. Okay.
691
01:10:04,320 --> 01:10:12,000
And then my headliner is going to be Led Zeppelin. Yes, we're all alive again and we are playing
692
01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:23,200
that. Let's go. Let's go. What a crazy, what a crazy three acts. Oh, yeah, it's all over the map.
693
01:10:23,200 --> 01:10:30,400
It's absolutely insane. There's no cohesion whatsoever. That's fantastic. Where would this be?
694
01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:40,480
You know what? I think in a huge, like a beach setting, I love that 1975 Echo Beach
695
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:46,480
culture really, really does stick with me. It's just, you know, being out in the sand in the
696
01:10:46,480 --> 01:10:52,320
sun, that would be awesome. That would be really fun. I don't know. I don't know. For people who
697
01:10:52,320 --> 01:10:56,000
were listening to this podcast might not know this, but the Echo Beach doesn't exist anymore.
698
01:10:56,560 --> 01:11:02,720
I know they shut it down. It's crazy. That is such a loss for Toronto music venues. That was a big,
699
01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:11,200
that was a big one. It is. It is wild. It is absolutely wild. When in the year would this be,
700
01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:19,360
but also when, what decade would it be? I think I'd want it right now. Okay. I'm a big fan of
701
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:23,920
where we're at right now. I think we're going to just keep getting better. And I want it right now.
702
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:30,560
And I think my only policy of this festival would be no phones. There you go. Only digital cameras.
703
01:11:30,560 --> 01:11:33,680
That's it. That's all you got. You want to take pictures? Go ahead. Take pictures,
704
01:11:33,680 --> 01:11:40,240
but we are locking in and we're enjoying this show. That was fantastic. Does it have a theme?
705
01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:51,200
Like is Charlie X6, is it themed and also is, I almost said Zed Lepplin, but Zed Lepplin,
706
01:11:51,200 --> 01:11:57,440
do they also have a theme? Is there a common theme? Oh man, what should it be? I don't know.
707
01:11:59,920 --> 01:12:06,480
We could do something crazy like old English themed. That would be great.
708
01:12:06,480 --> 01:12:11,360
Led Zeppelin could play into that, but it would be hilarious to see everybody in an old English
709
01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:16,880
and get up. I was going to say, Led Zeppelin wouldn't have to change a thing. They're pretty much
710
01:12:16,880 --> 01:12:25,120
there. Yeah. Fantastic. And lastly, is there one food or beverage that you'd serve or both
711
01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:34,240
that would best represent you at the festival? I think to add to the absolute chaos that is
712
01:12:34,240 --> 01:12:42,960
going on at this festival, let's do spaghetti. Big bowls. Wow. Okay. Yeah. That would be,
713
01:12:42,960 --> 01:12:47,200
that would be something. You know, rock concert, but everybody's got a little bit of spaghetti
714
01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:52,000
and a plate. Even though they're style, that would be pretty fun. That'd be really great.
715
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:58,640
And people would be fed too. Oh yeah. Yeah. Fantastic. Well, that's that's how we end the
716
01:12:58,640 --> 01:13:05,680
year. This week of the, of the club she pockets. Thanks Chris. It was really honestly very refreshing
717
01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:10,480
and so great to have a chat about this stuff because we, we have literally never talked about it in
718
01:13:11,040 --> 01:13:16,880
what marks our 80th episode. Well, I'm really happy I could, I could be some, some voice of
719
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:22,400
expertise here on the financial side. I'm really happy I could help out. Totally. Thanks again.
720
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:29,680
Thank you, man. This week on the 80th episode of the club, she podcasts with the absolute
721
01:13:29,680 --> 01:13:36,400
pleasure of chatting with Chris murmur about all things financials on the creative side of things,
722
01:13:36,400 --> 01:13:42,880
whether you're an entrepreneur, artist, creative individual, I hope you gained just as much as I
723
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:54,320
did is so valuable to get an insight into, you know, things, things like debt and saving and,
724
01:13:54,320 --> 01:13:59,920
you know, some, some advice to starting a business, to starting an artist project and how you should
725
01:13:59,920 --> 01:14:06,480
look at your finances, looking at the health of your standing and all these really interesting
726
01:14:06,480 --> 01:14:15,360
and important things, especially in 2024. We also spoke specifically about Gemini, Chris's
727
01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:23,200
music group venture that he has started and his artist project Vertigo Blue. I really invite you
728
01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:28,880
to go check out Vertigo Blue and go check out specifically that, that live version of What's
729
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:35,120
Up where we had the pleasure of musical directing on that through 8th and with my dear business
730
01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:41,520
partner Nate Day. As we look forward to seeing Chris and all of these projects and all of these
731
01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:49,680
ventures that he has, you know, I encourage you to go check out Chris on all, on all that he's
732
01:14:49,680 --> 01:14:57,440
doing and to connect with him through chris at gemini musicgroup.ca. That's his email for Chris
733
01:14:57,440 --> 01:15:05,840
and that is chris at gemini musicgroup.ca. Thanks for tuning in everybody. Don't forget to like,
734
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:12,080
comment, subscribe and share this episode with who could benefit from this advice and everything
735
01:15:12,080 --> 01:15:16,800
that we're doing here on the Cloud Machine podcast. It is for you. It is for the people that want to
736
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:21,760
know a little bit more about the music industry, the creative industries and to pull that curtain back
737
01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:27,440
on the realities of what's happening. Our goal is to share these conversations, these real
738
01:15:27,440 --> 01:15:32,320
conversations with people who are actually doing the work behind the scenes and I've been having
739
01:15:32,320 --> 01:15:39,120
a lot of fun doing it throughout these 80 episodes of the podcast. Also be sure to join our new
740
01:15:39,120 --> 01:15:45,760
community, a new developing community on the 8th network discord with your musician and industry
741
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:51,120
insider, somebody that's looking to get more information or even to get more contacts in the
742
01:15:51,120 --> 01:15:58,400
industry and start sharing their story and their journey with people online and through that community.
743
01:15:58,400 --> 01:16:04,000
The 8th network discord is the place to get started. If this is the links in the episode
744
01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:19,920
description today to join. Thanks everybody. Stay safe and we will see you next week. Bye.