Naming What Hurt Us Opens the Door to Power and Belonging

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That is s A v v Y l A d
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i e s dot org. Welcome, come back to Kavakombam,
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the bilingual podcast that celebrates the power of our stories,
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the medicine and our voices and the magic of reclaiming
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who we are. Plebok is, the episodio is Barati Joseph
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bamgorubyas your host e Elia LeRoi. We talk about what
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it costs to finally say the thing out loud. My
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guest is Denise O Laire Cox, a filmmaker, a storyteller,
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and now an author. Ten years ago she was episode
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ten of Kava Combam. She said yes to me. I
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was a baby podcaster with a terrible mic a tiny hot,
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non air conditioned room, and she said yes to me.
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This year, Gava Combam turns ten and she has an
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incredible milestone. We are walking side by side the whole
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time and it's amazing. I love Denise. She is such
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a I don't know. I see. Denise's this like inker
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of Cpa Combomb in many ways. Because I looked up
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to her, I reached out. She said yes, and I
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was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe it. And
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this time she's back with her book. Her book is
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called what Will They Say? Get It Ran, a title
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that is its own kind of wound borghet. You know
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you've already heard that. You've heard the voice that says,
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who would you disappoint? If you tell the truth, If
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you tell the truth about money, about la familia, about
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the rooms in your own story you locked and maybe
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swore you'd never open. Denise wrote this one through her
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own rock bottom in the same coffee shop where she
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and I met a few years ago, and she tells
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us what she found in there, all the medicine she
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shares with us. As you get pull up your cafecito,
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borget This one is for the one who's been holding
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a story she's terrified to say out loud. It's so
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fun since mass de Niece, welcome back to go them
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for third round. Let's go.
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Thank you, thank you, thank you so much. You talking
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to you. I kind of feel like it's the ultimate
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full circle because you and I we I had my
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very first podcast interview with you ten years ago, and
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I you know, I kind of feel like you're You're
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the witness to all of my new stuff. You're the
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first person that stands right there and wants to know
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about it. So so I appreciate you, and I'm honored
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to be on this uh, to be on your podcast
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again right before the book launches.
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Thank you. Thank you for saying yes back then. And
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we've talked about this every time you come back that
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I was like, this is really baby podcaster. Didn't know
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what I was doing. I was podcasting with the microphone
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from a retired rapper and I saw your film and
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I was like, she has to be my guest. Oh.
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And I sent pitches to like so many people, like
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I had a list of one hundred people that I
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wanted to be and you were the first one to
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say yes. And I was like, what she wants to
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talk to me.
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Thank you interesting, Oh my gosh, I probably felt the
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same way. Just so you know, I really did not
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know what I was getting myself into like this. I
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just wanted to make the movie. I didn't I didn't
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know the world beyond that, you know.
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So which same, I feel like we're kindred spirits in
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that sense where the documentary came in twenty sixteen, I
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started Keefakampum in twenty sixteen.
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Oh my gosh.
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Wow. Yeah, so it'sam turns ten. Oh my god, year,
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congratulate documentary turns ten. You know, like, yes, we have
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been like doing this parallel movement, which is really cool. Yes,
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and I love seeing it. So yes, thank you for
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saying yes that back then, neither of us knew.
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And you know what, like I adore you, and I
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adore kind of like running alongside you, and like also
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really love your content, and I love that we have
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we care about the same thing, and I just love
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that we stayed in it, you know, because there's a
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lot of people that start things and you know, for
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whatever reason, it's just their journey ends sooner. It's you know,
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it's just how it is. And so it's awesome to
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be able to be ten years later with someone who
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you know, like you're still here, You're still doing it,
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and it's great. You know, I've seen your evolution and
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I have appreciated it, you know, same, really cool, thank you,
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thank you.
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Yeah, for sure. And I mean we've talked offline, we've
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we met in Denbar. We did it, but we talked
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even offline after it, and it's it's cool to see
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totally like I'm not gonna repeat what you said, but
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it really is nice to have someone that you're like, okay,
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still doing it, Like it's hard, but you know, like
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somebody's out there bushing so I can push as well.
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So thank you for modeling as well.
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Oh of course, of course. And likewise yeah.
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Yeah, So since this is your third time, Denise, we
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now have a book, Yes what will They Say? Which
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is like such a great full circle moment. I think
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from like the very first interview of like you waited
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sixteen years to like finally you were writing in your journal,
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make the movie, make the movie, make the movie, yes, yes,
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and then finally you made the movie, and now ten
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years later we're talking about the book.
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Yeah.
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How does that feel to look at that trajectory and
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be here.
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Yeah, it's definitely surreal, Like, well, I feel like that's
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so cliche to say, but it's true. And it feels
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like is this my life? Like is this really how
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it went? And it feels like, you know, it's this
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these both of these two kind of milestones were not
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easy and they're very very different in their own way.
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And I was sharing with someone just the other day, like,
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just how how much this chapter, this chapter, this last
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ten years has been the absolute most fun. And then
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just professionally speaking, I've been able to devote my work
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to our shared community, the Latino community, and it is
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because of that that it has felt so fulfilling. But
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also it's like the chapter where I got to be
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my most my most authentic me, and that's like not
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for nothing, you know, like it.
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Feels to have that because I didn't have that before
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I started working on them, and I didn't realize how
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much you would mean to me, And you know, I
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didn't realize.
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How how important that is. And to be able to
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show up as yourself every day, not saying it's not
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hard at times, but at least I at least I
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have that, you.
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Know, looking back and saying this is this is one
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of the chapters, or this chapter is you showing up
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in the most authentic, truest version of you? Yeah, how
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did the previous ones inform that and build it?
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Yeah? Well, I mean the previous versions I did not.
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I mean I was. I was showing up as the
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corporate girly, you know, and my version of the corporate
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girly was. I really felt oftentimes that I didn't belong
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for all kinds of reasons, and that I just didn't
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have like I didn't have like the manual, you know,
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I didn't have that pere's we talk about things. Here's
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how you shouldn't talk about things. Here's where it's going
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to break down. Here's where like here's where don't ever
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do this. I just had no idea, and I wrote
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about it a little bit in the book that and
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to me, the corporate spaces, in my opinion, are in
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authentic places, and it's like oil and water. You know,
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there's a reason why I longed to make this movie.
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I think part of me knew I needed to be
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in a place where I could thrive and be myself.
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So as you were writing the book, and because I
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read it in two days, by the way, that's awesome,
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so great because and usually I have a ton of
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notes and books, but I was reading so fast that
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I didn't have time to write notes. But I write
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it in two days.
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Wow.
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And I think what got me is that it's very
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it's it's a story, it's very storytelling, and it's vulnerable.
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Yeah.
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So it's someone who and you talk about it in
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the book who, for example, hid behind clothes for a
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long time, hid behind the camera for a long time.
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How was it for you to literally pour your story
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and make it out like who knows is going to
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read it?
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Yeah? Yeah, So let's promise me maybe we can talk
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a year from now and I can tell you how
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that went, because I don't really I feel like I
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can't answer that question fully, like because we're thirty days
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I think thirty two days out from the book launching
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or thirty whatever, like I think thirty three days, and
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I feel like I'm in this. I love the idea
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of the liminal space that in between. That is a
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very fascinating concept. And we are sitting in that right
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now and very you know, as it pertains to the
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book because it's been written and it hasn't been released
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A few hundred people a copy, only a few A
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small percentage I've probably read it, and only a smaller
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percentage have actually finished it. And so I will be
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completely honest with you and tell you that I wasn't
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necessarily planning on revealing so much. I did have like
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a reckoning. I knew two things. I knew the stories
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I wanted to tell how to be stories that mirrored
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the stories that were told to me. And so in
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the book I talk about something called the line of
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secrets and dreams, and that's where I heard the That's
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where I was inspired to write the book because of
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the secrets that were being shared with me that I
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could not make sense of why people felt safe and
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comfortable sharing them with me. And then it happened so
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many times that I realized, Okay, I think, I think
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I'm supposed to do something here and for the community.
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But then I also didn't realize how that would heal
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me as well. Yes, I'm on the healing journey. I
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think I'll be doing that until I die.
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And I don't Yeah, I don't know of the ever ends.
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Right, like saying I healed that that like never resonates.
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I'm like, how do you how do you know that
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that's been healed? Like it's you know, for me, it's layers.
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But so the stories that I told in the book
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are mirrors of the stories that I heard, and I knew.
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I made a commitment that I would only tell stories
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that I had heard. I would only tell my version
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of the same stories I'd heard over and over and
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over and over again. And then last summer I had
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a huge reckoning in my life. It was definitely a pivotal,
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pivotal time. I had been really struggling financially and came
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out of or was deep in the thick of a
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massive financial breakdown that came as a result of the
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new administration, and I experienced this incredible peak in my
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income and success, and by all accounts, I felt so
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I felt like all of the hard work had paid off.
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I was really proud of myself and like ready to
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do the work, ready to continue just doing it, being
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it showing up getting better. And then when the new
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administration came and the DEI budgets were slashed, I lost
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over two hundred thousand dollars in business, and it happened slowly,
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so if I think, like, if that would have happened quickly,
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of course, I think both would have been hard. But
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because it happened slowly, and because of the way that
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I am, I'm like the eternal optimist, not Pollyanna, but
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my brain is very good at finding silver linings and
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always looking for hope. Like I'm just good at that.
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Yeah.
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So, as I lost, you know, event after event, I
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just kept thinking, well, I've got these things, and these
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people are still calling and this is still happening. But
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over a period of over a year, people that I had,
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you know, contacts that I had been working with, lost
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their jobs, their departments, budgets were slashed, and I mean
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it was just the most horrific, horrific and scary time
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to be the maiden breadwinner of my home. And so
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I still had a deadline and I needed to like
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write through one of the hardest periods of my life.
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Whoa yeah, And so I remember being at the coffee
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shop and I was like, you know, something that's interesting
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that happened to me and happens it is like a
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phenomenon that is that I when I sit down to write,
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I it's like things want to come out and I
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never really experienced that before. It's like stories want to
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be told, past things want to be surfaced. Yeah yeah,
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And I was like, what is what is going on?
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And I had resisted, you know, I had picked in
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shows which one of those which of the stories that
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were coming out or the ideas or opinions or whatever
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I was going to share, and then there was just
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things just got to a point where I had reached
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like my own version of rock Bottom, and I was like,
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I'm literally writing a book about saying the truth. I'm
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talking about taboos. One of the biggest taboos in our
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culture and our specific Latino culture is talking about money.
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And here I am not wanting to talk about it,
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or I'm not wanting to talk about my relationship with
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my mom. I'm not wanting to go into detail about
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you know, some of like these things that I was
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willing to talk about, but I didn't want to go there.
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I didn't want to pla the thread the entire way.
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I didn't want to do the entire thing. But at
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one point it was literally a day where I said, fit,
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I'm doing it and let the chips fall where they will.
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And it was to me, I don't know I don't
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know what. I don't know if that'll have been the
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best decision, you know, in the end. But now I'm
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like came out yeah, like I'm so damn proud of myself,
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so just that I that I was willing to be
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so like, there's not I left it all there. I
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left it all in that book. And the thing is,
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that's where the most healing happened for me, because that's
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where I had to just say, despite all of this
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stuff that I'm so terribly embarrassed to be writing and sharing,
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like I'm still a badass. And that's where the line
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where I said we can be both powerful and unfinished came.
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I was like, screw this, I don't I'm not going
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to take this freaking disaster that just happened and everything
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else I'm hard on myself with right now, and I'm
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not going to throw everything away just because life is
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hard today. I will not do that. I am not broken.
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I am on the man and things are going to
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be okay, and I just won't die here. This is
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not where the story ends. And but that and that's
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where that line came from.
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I love that, and I think it's it's going to
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resonate with the listeners so much because right now we're
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living in those times too. Yes, where it's hard, you know,
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like there's there's so much that I'm not even going
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to mention because we would just take up the whole episode. Yeah,
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but I think you just modeled to us that when
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things are hard, even sometimes what I heard is looking
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back at how far you've come allows you to say
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I can totally move forward because I can't just like imagine,
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like as you're saying this, I'm literally I imagined you
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sitting at the coffe shop, like writing about the sexual assault,
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writing about your brother, like writing about all the things,
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and letting those stories live and exist, in honoring them
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and saying, look how strong I am because I survived
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those I'm definitely going to survive this. Yes, Yes, that's
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what I heard you say.
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Oh, thank you. And actually the coffee shop that we met,
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that we had read. I wrote so much of the
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book in that coffee shop. Yep, exactly, So now you
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know the place that this all went down.
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Yeah, it's a great coffee shop.
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It is loud, yes, it's terribly loud, but wildly I
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can focus in the loudness, which is so bizarre, but
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I know there are other people out there.
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Like me too, totally. I mean there's actually science, no
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kidding that's been studying that. Coffee shops. Coffee shops library, well,
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library is not so much but like places where people
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like chatter, yeah, and like dishes clunking and like things
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like that. That well probably for eighty at adhd uh huh.
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What it does is like tunes out the extra noise
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because like my brain is constantly with my ADHD, it's
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constantly like finding other noises. So I always have to
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like it's funny because my family, like, you're so except
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like music on and I'm playing a video you know.
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Oh wow, yeah you do both, and I'm like because
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I need both. And so a coffee shop kind of
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like takes from like the noise. Yeah, it quiets the
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noise and then you can just like focus.
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Yes, yes, well there you go. Science explains that I
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love it. I love it. I love a lot of nice,
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loud coffee shop to write.
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And it's also the energy of other people.
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Oh yeah, that's true too, that is very true. And
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I also wrote in libraries as well, and it's funny.
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I wish I knew what I wrote in libraries versus
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coffee shops, but it was I wrote in both spaces.
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You know, that would be interesting to to like see
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if the writing was different. Yeah, you know, yes, like
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maybe there were more like faster, like the story moves
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faster when you were in coffee shop versus when you
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were I don't know. I'd be so curious to explore that. Yes,
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that's another experiment that we're not going to go into. Okay,
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I have so many questions to ask you, Holen. Did
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it take for you to write the book? Every author
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is different.
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Yeah, I mean it's hard to say. I worked on
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the It's like, what do you consider writing? Do you
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know what I mean? And I started writing the proposal.
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The opportunity came to me in twenty twenty one to
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write the book, and so I started the proposal in
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twenty twenty one.
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When we talked in number you were writing the book,
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but we couldn't say it.
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I don't think oh really, okay, oh my gosh, all right,
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so yeah, because so I think it was two years
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ago this past February that the book was purchased and
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by Simon and Schuster. And that's when I really got
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I would say. It was kind of like proposal phase.
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And then lots and lots of notes and stories and
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disparate things, disparate stories in my phone and on the
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computer and in Google docs, deep very unorganized. And then
377
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and then I began in earnest in February March, and
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then just wrote all the way through to last August.
379
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And but February March, not of last year, of the
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year before, so like twenty twenty four. And then the
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00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:22.480
manuscript was due last August, and yeah, and it was
382
00:22:22.519 --> 00:22:25.200
still not enough time. It's funny how that works, you know.
383
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Even recording the audio book, which I did recently, was
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painful because I could see all of these things that
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I wish I had a chance to change.
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Oh I bed.
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I was like, oh my god, how could I have
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missed this?
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But you know, as someone who's not written a book,
390
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but I write a lot. Like someone messaged me the
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other day and they were like, have you thought about
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making your newsletters a book?
393
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Oh?
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00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:54.319
Wow, because I always like do a lot of storytelling. Yeah,
395
00:22:54.359 --> 00:22:58.279
and I thought about it, and I'm like no, because
396
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like those newsletters from like three years ago, I'm a
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whole other person, and so hearing you like that trajectory
398
00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:08.039
when you started to when you've finished and reading it
399
00:23:09.720 --> 00:23:12.400
like you're a whole other person. So how do you
400
00:23:12.440 --> 00:23:13.000
reckon that?
401
00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:18.640
Yeah? Well it had like there's a lot of thinking
402
00:23:18.759 --> 00:23:23.119
involved and thinking like how will this and because like
403
00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:25.359
it's thinking of what you like, I would say, like
404
00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:28.640
the evergreen nature of whatever the story is. But then
405
00:23:28.680 --> 00:23:32.039
also how do these things piece together? And that is
406
00:23:32.079 --> 00:23:35.240
something that I learned while making the film is and
407
00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:39.480
then watching an inordinate amount of I watch an inordinate
408
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amount of television and movies and I love them. I
409
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love storytelling, I love I just love it and I
410
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always have and so, but making the movie really helped
411
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me understand the you know, beginning, middle end, beginning, middle end,
412
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and like I wanted to make sure every single chapter
413
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had the beginning end and that the book gets the beginning,
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middle end right. And and then of course there's the
415
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editor who came in and she brilliantly did all of
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you know script yep, and she made incredible suggestions put
417
00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:17.960
this here, put that here. And it was weird because
418
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I was like, how did she know that it would
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work better? And of course it's her job, right, but
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00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:27.559
it was so grateful for an editor who would who
421
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would move things around. And then also too, she was
422
00:24:31.480 --> 00:24:36.359
she had incredible questions for me to answer in the
423
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manuscript as well, and so these and like what was
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00:24:39.759 --> 00:24:41.880
pulled out was truth and I and I feel like
425
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truth is evergreen. And even if like let's say next
426
00:24:45.559 --> 00:24:47.440
year or even ten years from now, I'm like, wow,
427
00:24:48.039 --> 00:24:51.480
evolved or I changed my mind about how I feel
428
00:24:51.799 --> 00:24:54.720
about something that I might have written, it was my
429
00:24:54.839 --> 00:24:59.160
truth today totally, you know. And yeah, mostly I love
430
00:24:59.319 --> 00:25:01.640
that you wrote read it in two days. Like the
431
00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:06.960
book was written and edited to pace be very quick,
432
00:25:07.160 --> 00:25:12.000
a quick read, and like a lot of the feedback
433
00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:15.799
has been I had to put it down. Oh yeah,
434
00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:18.240
So I'm so happy to hear that you read it
435
00:25:18.279 --> 00:25:21.000
so quickly, because I've only heard that from a few people,
436
00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:24.240
but many people are like, yeah, I just I can't, like,
437
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:28.880
like it's too true and and there, you know, and
438
00:25:28.920 --> 00:25:29.920
they just need a minute.
439
00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:34.160
You know, totally, I could see that. And I do
440
00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:37.279
this work, yeah, you know, like I do a lot
441
00:25:37.319 --> 00:25:40.680
of my own inner work first and foremost, and my
442
00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:43.079
first client all the time. Yeah, and so yeah, I
443
00:25:43.079 --> 00:25:46.640
mean there were like the college one, I was like,
444
00:25:46.720 --> 00:25:51.039
holy shit it, yeah, and it like I actually I
445
00:25:51.079 --> 00:25:54.480
did cry. Like I cried, I laughed, I like I
446
00:25:54.519 --> 00:25:55.920
did have to put it down and go outside for
447
00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:58.559
a second. Like, but I still read it in todays. Huh.
448
00:25:58.759 --> 00:26:03.480
But I think that I got to use tools within
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00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:06.880
myself because it mirrors and it reflects also stories that
450
00:26:06.920 --> 00:26:09.880
I have within me. Yeah, you know, and so yeah,
451
00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:14.319
I could totally see how it could be a little
452
00:26:14.359 --> 00:26:19.680
bit challenging for some bodies to receive it. But it's
453
00:26:19.720 --> 00:26:20.640
medicine that's needed.
454
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I think, thank you, thank you.
455
00:26:24.279 --> 00:26:27.759
It takes a minute to process, like some not all
456
00:26:27.799 --> 00:26:32.759
the chapters, right, but there are some that I'm like, oh, okay,
457
00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:35.400
let me just go watch like some puppy videos real
458
00:26:35.480 --> 00:26:40.880
quick and then we'll come back.
459
00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:44.960
And like in the first chapter, and I I like
460
00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:50.160
can't wait to talk about this part, which is that
461
00:26:50.200 --> 00:26:54.880
in the first chapter, I I I tell people in
462
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:58.440
like the reflection part like, which was also my editor's
463
00:26:58.440 --> 00:27:03.240
idea to add these reflective parts some places to great
464
00:27:04.039 --> 00:27:07.319
you know, which I was super like in hindsight, I
465
00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:09.920
love I love them, and I gave them a lot
466
00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:14.839
of thoughts speaking of thinking and the the in chapter one,
467
00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:17.960
I was like, give your hands something to do while
468
00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:21.440
you do this, And I wonder he'll take me up
469
00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:24.279
on that, you know, because like I'm a big crafter.
470
00:27:24.799 --> 00:27:27.960
My girls are crafters. My girls are teenagers. We love
471
00:27:28.039 --> 00:27:32.640
to craft and it's fun. It's like community, like we gab,
472
00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:37.200
we yap, we create, and like I think for me,
473
00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:40.799
for you know, it's for my like I've always been
474
00:27:40.839 --> 00:27:43.680
like a crafty, artsy girl, you know, and found a
475
00:27:43.680 --> 00:27:47.799
lot of like like joy and peace in it oddly,
476
00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:50.200
you know, and to know if you read the book,
477
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:52.119
you know, I've been through it like I had. I
478
00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:56.319
had a difficult time and but but doing crafts has
479
00:27:56.359 --> 00:28:00.240
always been like a source of joy for me. And
480
00:28:00.279 --> 00:28:04.680
so I hope that people will do something and make
481
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something as they deal with whatever comes up for them
482
00:28:09.039 --> 00:28:10.119
as they read. You know.
483
00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:15.440
Yeah, definitely, for sure, I think people definitely need to
484
00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:20.680
do the questions you ask, Yeah, like I journaled them.
485
00:28:20.759 --> 00:28:24.759
I'm also I need a felt you'll enjoy this, ah,
486
00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:28.000
I love that. What is that wool?
487
00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:28.680
Really?
488
00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:33.400
Yeah, it's like wool balls, like literally it's wool. And
489
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:35.079
then with the needle, you needle felt them.
490
00:28:35.240 --> 00:28:37.680
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, we've done that. We've done that.
491
00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:39.240
That's awesome and beautiful.
492
00:28:39.960 --> 00:28:43.599
A jaguar, and then I've made a mushroom.
493
00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:44.839
Ooh so cute.
494
00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:49.359
But to your point, I think, especially not just when
495
00:28:49.400 --> 00:28:55.000
reading your book, but just period, I think moving through
496
00:28:55.160 --> 00:29:01.200
your emotions in not necessarily ways that are expected, especially
497
00:29:01.240 --> 00:29:03.480
as Latina, is that you're like no yr it is
498
00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:08.160
you know, like be strong or whatever. Yeah, finding ways
499
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:12.400
to release by making beautiful things, it's awesome.
500
00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:13.480
Yeah.
501
00:29:14.359 --> 00:29:26.920
Okay, so let's take a quick coffee break. Yeah, Denise,
502
00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:27.720
what are you drinking?
503
00:29:28.599 --> 00:29:31.640
I am drinking nothing hot. It's gonna have had like
504
00:29:31.680 --> 00:29:35.200
four cups of coffee already today. No, this is like electrolytes.
505
00:29:36.279 --> 00:29:39.720
Fun. How was your coffee this morning?
506
00:29:40.079 --> 00:29:43.039
It was awesome? I'm actually so this is something I
507
00:29:43.039 --> 00:29:45.839
started last summer when I was in the saving money mode,
508
00:29:46.039 --> 00:29:49.599
and it's it's carried over because I love this new habit.
509
00:29:49.960 --> 00:29:53.160
So I was like always getting the oatmeal clatte at Starbucks.
510
00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:56.920
I know, I know all the things about whatever, right, yeah,
511
00:29:56.960 --> 00:29:59.200
but I still loved it and I still bought it
512
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:04.200
every day. And then I ended up finding cafe like
513
00:30:04.240 --> 00:30:07.839
instant cafe at the supermarket, and girl, I got that,
514
00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:10.839
and I got my own oat milk, and I started
515
00:30:10.880 --> 00:30:13.880
making my own oat milk coffeas and it's like my
516
00:30:14.079 --> 00:30:17.640
whole ritual now. I'm so, I'm like, I mean, we
517
00:30:17.720 --> 00:30:19.960
just got back from Peru and there is no coffee
518
00:30:19.960 --> 00:30:22.960
I've ever drank in my life, like proving coffee, and
519
00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:26.599
I toorally enjoyed it. And I'm happy to be back
520
00:30:26.680 --> 00:30:33.119
with my own routine, with my gone gone you know
521
00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:34.519
oat milk.
522
00:30:34.759 --> 00:30:38.240
So literally yes, yes, nice, so.
523
00:30:38.960 --> 00:30:41.000
Yeah, what are you drinking? What are you drinking?
524
00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:52.880
I'm drinking mushroom coffee. So it has cordus EPs, lions,
525
00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:57.519
main rashi. I need a mug. This is I love mushrooms.
526
00:30:57.559 --> 00:31:03.839
Actually that's why I make so it has like a
527
00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:07.200
comedy like actual maybe it has some ashal Ganda. And
528
00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:10.759
it has local honey. So my mom is a beekeeper.
529
00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:13.279
No way, oh, I love that.
530
00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:20.119
But honey from from the yard, which, by the way,
531
00:31:20.359 --> 00:31:23.000
that is like my biggest remedy in the world. Like
532
00:31:23.079 --> 00:31:25.279
I used to be one that would get allergies, but
533
00:31:25.359 --> 00:31:28.680
since I consume local honey from the like local honey
534
00:31:28.720 --> 00:31:33.480
from the yard. Yeah yeah yeah every day zero no sitting.
535
00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:37.799
But it has to be consistent interesting, like I do
536
00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:40.279
a year round and I never get bothered. And I
537
00:31:40.400 --> 00:31:42.799
used to be one that was like with the mochos
538
00:31:42.839 --> 00:31:45.039
and like the ice and all the things.
539
00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:49.119
No, wow, wow wow. I love that. And I love
540
00:31:49.119 --> 00:31:52.440
that it's your mom's and that it's like it connects
541
00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:54.200
you to her. That's so beautiful.
542
00:31:54.599 --> 00:31:57.880
Yeah, and like bees are pretty well, like I've done
543
00:31:57.920 --> 00:32:00.559
the work too. It's like a lot of work and
544
00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:02.599
then like the bees get stuck in your hair and
545
00:32:02.640 --> 00:32:05.000
it's really like I have curly hair, So it's like
546
00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:07.799
even where it's like a lot would you have curly hair?
547
00:32:07.799 --> 00:32:09.160
I saw a picture of you, but you were young.
548
00:32:09.640 --> 00:32:10.559
Yeah, I know it.
549
00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:18.799
I was like, wait a minute, I've been played.
550
00:32:22.599 --> 00:32:25.400
That is so awesome. I love that you just brought
551
00:32:25.480 --> 00:32:28.200
that up. I was literally thinking someone is going to
552
00:32:28.279 --> 00:32:28.880
bring this up.
553
00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:31.519
I so did.
554
00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:35.079
But you saw how curly it was, right, you saw
555
00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:39.519
how Yeah, and the thing is but like then, I'm
556
00:32:39.559 --> 00:32:42.119
telling you, in the eighties, we didn't have we didn't
557
00:32:42.119 --> 00:32:45.880
have anything like, I had no tools, I had no
558
00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:48.759
there were no techniques, there was no YouTube, there was
559
00:32:48.759 --> 00:32:51.359
no there was nobody that I knew that had hair
560
00:32:51.480 --> 00:32:54.160
like mine. And it wasn't until I moved to Miami
561
00:32:54.359 --> 00:32:56.880
and and it wasn't like the Miami girls were telling me,
562
00:32:56.920 --> 00:33:01.240
but my cousin, who has wavy hair, she told me
563
00:33:01.319 --> 00:33:03.640
about this is the funniest thing. And I haven't talked
564
00:33:03.640 --> 00:33:05.440
about this and I don't know even though how long.
565
00:33:05.480 --> 00:33:10.279
But this method called the dooby do have you ever hear?
566
00:33:10.359 --> 00:33:13.079
Does that sound familiar? Okay? It must be like a
567
00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:15.839
Puerto Rican thing. And what she did was she took
568
00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:20.400
her her and my hair and we blew it straight,
569
00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:23.440
like as straight as we possibly could, right like whatever,
570
00:33:23.720 --> 00:33:26.240
and then like massively curly hair that I had. And
571
00:33:26.279 --> 00:33:30.799
then she had this freaking bag of bobby pins. And
572
00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:33.000
then what she did was she did this and I'm
573
00:33:33.039 --> 00:33:36.440
literally doing the demo, and you go like this with
574
00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:39.240
your hair and put a bobby pin here, okay, and
575
00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:41.680
then put a bobby pin here and here, and then
576
00:33:41.920 --> 00:33:46.079
take this until the whole thing is like all the
577
00:33:46.119 --> 00:33:48.440
way around, all the way around. Yes, you wrap it
578
00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:50.720
once and so it's like it ends up being like
579
00:33:50.799 --> 00:33:56.759
this but like that, but like really impeccable, like impeccable straightness,
580
00:33:57.279 --> 00:34:00.880
and then you take it off about thirty minutes and
581
00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:02.799
do it on the other side and leave it for
582
00:34:02.839 --> 00:34:04.519
like thirty minutes and the more you leave it in
583
00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:09.079
the straighter a gap. So that was my method. That
584
00:34:09.199 --> 00:34:12.079
was the very first way that I experienced my hair
585
00:34:12.079 --> 00:34:14.360
being straight. And I'm going to tell you this from
586
00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:17.719
being a curly girl with the curls that I had,
587
00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:24.760
like tight, tight curls, impossible curls. Right, it was so
588
00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:27.119
nice to like be able just to go like this
589
00:34:27.159 --> 00:34:29.880
because I never knew this. I never knew that, you know,
590
00:34:30.440 --> 00:34:33.719
and and wow, yeah. So now every once in a
591
00:34:33.719 --> 00:34:35.599
while I'll go with my curly hair and I kind
592
00:34:35.639 --> 00:34:37.519
of wish I still had those tight curls and they
593
00:34:37.639 --> 00:34:40.119
wonder one day, but I'd have to grow my hair
594
00:34:40.239 --> 00:34:45.239
so long to like really take advantage of that curl pattern,
595
00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:48.079
you know, because I tell me, oh yeah, because I
596
00:34:48.159 --> 00:34:50.639
just feel like like this, and then I don't know
597
00:34:50.679 --> 00:34:52.960
that I you know, I'm not as cute. I don't
598
00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:54.519
have the same face as I did when I was
599
00:34:54.519 --> 00:34:55.920
seventeen in that picture, you.
600
00:34:55.840 --> 00:35:00.159
Know what I mean, because you had literally like the
601
00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:05.599
eighties hair full on fu Yeah I was, so I
602
00:35:05.639 --> 00:35:06.519
was like, no.
603
00:35:06.400 --> 00:35:18.000
Way, what I love that. So it's not as curly now.
604
00:35:18.599 --> 00:35:21.880
It's not as curly now because I well because I
605
00:35:21.880 --> 00:35:26.000
straighten it, but also like to be totally transparent. Who
606
00:35:26.039 --> 00:35:28.880
the hell knows how curly it is, because I will
607
00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:31.719
straighten it like this and leave it. And because it's
608
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:35.559
fundamentally so curly is on the dry side. So I
609
00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:37.880
can go a few days with my hair like this,
610
00:35:38.039 --> 00:35:43.079
a B. I have ventured to put some product in
611
00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:45.400
just to test things out because I have a daughter
612
00:35:45.480 --> 00:35:46.599
that has super curly hair.
613
00:35:47.079 --> 00:35:50.119
Yeah it makes sense now, yeah, I mean your daughters.
614
00:35:50.159 --> 00:35:52.559
And I'm like, oh that's right.
615
00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:57.559
Yeah, it comes from me, so like it's there. It's
616
00:35:57.599 --> 00:36:00.519
like it's like the Spanish language. It's there, just needs
617
00:36:00.559 --> 00:36:02.079
to be found and nurtured.
618
00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:09.280
Nice. I had a curly Madriina, like a hair like
619
00:36:09.559 --> 00:36:15.440
godmother that she I was. I was in dance. I
620
00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:19.679
used to perform okay, oh my god, and so she
621
00:36:19.760 --> 00:36:23.079
was in my dance team, and I was the like
622
00:36:23.119 --> 00:36:26.519
I didn't a Mexican. Like Mexican people they're like so whitewashed,
623
00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:31.840
like there's no like every commercial like thele you see,
624
00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:34.880
everyone's like white with like long hair, right, and so
625
00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:38.079
like my hair was never I never had anyone to
626
00:36:38.119 --> 00:36:40.760
teach me how to do anything with it. Yeah, and
627
00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:42.400
so I was in dance class and I had my
628
00:36:42.519 --> 00:36:45.599
chungle up, you know, like and then I took it
629
00:36:45.639 --> 00:36:48.760
out after dance and you know, you're sweating and like
630
00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:54.000
my hair started like drying. And she had like like
631
00:36:54.079 --> 00:36:59.400
curls she had like in English, the tendrils. She had
632
00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:02.199
like the like the super and they were always super good,
633
00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:06.360
like even rehearsing. I'm like, bro like like how you know,
634
00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:08.000
and she's like, you just take care of your hair,
635
00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:11.360
and so because even in rehearsals it was like pretty.
636
00:37:11.960 --> 00:37:14.480
And so I take my jungle off and my hair
637
00:37:14.519 --> 00:37:17.239
starts drying and starts like doing the thing. And she
638
00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:20.039
looks at me and she's like I can do something
639
00:37:20.079 --> 00:37:24.320
with that. And I'm like there's no way, and she's
640
00:37:24.360 --> 00:37:27.639
like I promise, and I'm like I've lived thirty years
641
00:37:27.679 --> 00:37:30.679
with this thing. There's like there's nothing. It's a nest.
642
00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:34.320
Like the only way is to like strange. Yeah. Yeah,
643
00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:37.599
And so I went over to her house and she
644
00:37:37.639 --> 00:37:40.960
gave me like the whole protocol and she taught me
645
00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:43.599
how to do the thing. And then I've never looked back.
646
00:37:44.119 --> 00:37:47.199
No keep straight in my hair like twice maybe no way.
647
00:37:47.320 --> 00:37:49.840
Well, I mean I was gonna say it looks it's
648
00:37:49.880 --> 00:37:52.440
beautiful on you and so, but you have a whole
649
00:37:52.639 --> 00:37:53.880
you have a whole thing that you do.
650
00:37:54.719 --> 00:37:56.639
Now I do, but I didn't grow up with it
651
00:37:56.679 --> 00:38:02.159
because so funny in college, my black friends they tried
652
00:38:02.199 --> 00:38:04.960
bless their heart, but it's a very different hair texture.
653
00:38:05.719 --> 00:38:08.039
And so I remember one of my best friends she
654
00:38:08.199 --> 00:38:09.920
was like, girl, just use this thing. And it was
655
00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:12.920
like this like jar of like product that she would
656
00:38:13.039 --> 00:38:16.800
use for her like super tight curl. Yeah. And I
657
00:38:16.840 --> 00:38:18.239
was like, what do I do? And she's like, just
658
00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:20.920
like just pass it through your whole hair and then
659
00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:23.559
just like screench it let it dry. That was like
660
00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:27.400
I looked like I had lard in my hair. No,
661
00:38:28.039 --> 00:38:29.800
because the product was just not for my hair.
662
00:38:29.960 --> 00:38:33.559
Yeah, texture right, right, because you have to Yeah, it
663
00:38:33.559 --> 00:38:35.519
has to be for the right curl pattern then the
664
00:38:35.599 --> 00:38:38.920
right texture. It's a more complicated.
665
00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:39.760
Yeah, No, it's a thing.
666
00:38:40.639 --> 00:38:41.199
It's the thing.
667
00:38:41.440 --> 00:38:43.880
And even what you explain of like doing the thing.
668
00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:46.079
I remember my friends when they would get relaxers, like
669
00:38:46.119 --> 00:38:48.760
my black friends, they would do that, but I never
670
00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:50.320
saw it. I never saw that thing. That's it.
671
00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:55.639
Well, now you know it was my supard weapon. My
672
00:38:55.719 --> 00:38:57.679
cousin Lord this is the one who turned me onto it,
673
00:38:57.719 --> 00:39:00.679
and it works so great. And and the funny when
674
00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:04.679
you said the jungle, I actually use the word monio
675
00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:08.119
in the book. I think it's the same thing. And
676
00:39:08.199 --> 00:39:10.400
for me, that was like the secret weapon for me.
677
00:39:10.679 --> 00:39:12.400
All I'd have to do is put product. This is
678
00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:15.360
back in the day, I would all put whatever, mostly
679
00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:19.119
gel because things were not as diverse. Products were not
680
00:39:19.239 --> 00:39:21.719
as diverse back then in the nineties, okay, and so
681
00:39:21.880 --> 00:39:24.679
like in the nineties, I would put gel and then
682
00:39:24.840 --> 00:39:27.679
put ammonio, go to bed, wake up, and all the
683
00:39:27.719 --> 00:39:30.960
curls would be there, you know, nice, but they would
684
00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:33.519
also be crunchy. You know, she has to get the
685
00:39:33.519 --> 00:39:37.760
crunch out. But anyway, it's changed and I'd like to go.
686
00:39:38.119 --> 00:39:40.079
You know, I'm in the I'm in the I'm in
687
00:39:40.079 --> 00:39:41.960
a mode right now where I want to I'm growing
688
00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:45.320
it long and longer and uh and I'd like to
689
00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:47.760
try it. But I know I need all the right products,
690
00:39:47.800 --> 00:39:49.480
and I need someone to show me the whole thing.
691
00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:53.039
I do. I need her. I need her number.
692
00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:56.639
Yeah, I'm happy to give you her number, but truly,
693
00:39:56.800 --> 00:40:00.480
just find a woman with like beautiful, like text your hair.
694
00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:03.119
I was directed once that it's textured hair.
695
00:40:03.400 --> 00:40:06.599
Now, yes, it is. Actually I know I love that.
696
00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:10.280
I love the whole textured hair movement and I know
697
00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:15.000
the gallat Loreal that started this whole textured hair thing.
698
00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:19.400
Nice and yes, and they have products for us, yes,
699
00:40:19.760 --> 00:40:23.360
in a range for all the different textures, because there's
700
00:40:23.400 --> 00:40:26.239
a whole thing. This is a total sidebar, but this
701
00:40:26.320 --> 00:40:30.119
is I think very interesting because being on the road
702
00:40:30.480 --> 00:40:34.199
with my film early on, I would want to look polished, right,
703
00:40:34.239 --> 00:40:37.280
and I would want to and I could never you know,
704
00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:39.800
it's very like I have a good system now because
705
00:40:39.800 --> 00:40:42.280
I've figured out how to do pin curls honestly, but
706
00:40:42.320 --> 00:40:44.679
that's a whole other thing. But like I would want
707
00:40:44.679 --> 00:40:46.840
to get my hair blown out before my speaking engagements
708
00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:49.280
and stuff like that. And I literally remember it took
709
00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:53.039
two hours. I was like in Michigan, Minnesota, something like that.
710
00:40:53.199 --> 00:40:55.440
And it took the girl like two hours because I
711
00:40:55.480 --> 00:40:58.719
had no clue how to blow out a thick Puerto
712
00:40:58.760 --> 00:41:01.840
Rican headed Yeah, and she was like, oh my gosh,
713
00:41:01.880 --> 00:41:04.280
I'm so sorry. I just I've never I've never worked
714
00:41:04.280 --> 00:41:09.679
with hair like this. Yeah, and so and so it's
715
00:41:09.719 --> 00:41:13.320
like there, you know the range this includes so many
716
00:41:13.360 --> 00:41:17.280
people that have textured hair, and so they so the
717
00:41:17.480 --> 00:41:21.679
interesting point is that they don't they don't teach hairdressers
718
00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:25.840
how to deal with textured hair. It's I don't know
719
00:41:25.840 --> 00:41:27.639
if I don't know if it's like one day or
720
00:41:27.960 --> 00:41:31.400
or any days, honestly, but she's working to get that
721
00:41:31.480 --> 00:41:34.320
changed in every single state, to make sure that you
722
00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:37.599
can't get a license, a cosmetology license unless you have
723
00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:40.800
this part of your education. This box has to be checked,
724
00:41:41.079 --> 00:41:44.519
which I think is a great like that's activism that
725
00:41:44.599 --> 00:41:47.159
no one hears about. That no one will know about,
726
00:41:47.320 --> 00:41:49.960
you know, most people won't know about that, but it's
727
00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:54.840
to me, and it fell under the DEI umbrella, and
728
00:41:54.880 --> 00:41:58.079
it's a it's why it's such a shame that that
729
00:41:58.159 --> 00:42:01.079
whole thing was taken away. Of course, you know, my
730
00:42:01.199 --> 00:42:05.000
business really suffered, and that's one thing that I personally affected.
731
00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:06.960
But then this other thing, and the thing is he
732
00:42:07.719 --> 00:42:11.000
Her thing is called Texture of Change, and it's still
733
00:42:11.039 --> 00:42:13.119
alive and well because it's with the company that cares
734
00:42:13.119 --> 00:42:15.360
about it, and they don't they don't have they're not
735
00:42:16.039 --> 00:42:19.039
they don't have to worry about the DEI mandates. They're
736
00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:22.719
very successful company, but those are the things that go
737
00:42:22.800 --> 00:42:24.559
down with the with the baby water, do you know
738
00:42:24.599 --> 00:42:26.079
what I mean? Or the baby with the bath water
739
00:42:26.159 --> 00:42:30.159
or whatever it is. That's what's lost when things, programs
740
00:42:30.159 --> 00:42:34.199
and budgets get cut. Yes, we somehow we suffer at
741
00:42:34.239 --> 00:42:38.559
the end of the day. Again right again anyway, total
742
00:42:38.639 --> 00:42:40.360
left turn, but interesting.
743
00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:42.360
Very much. I mean we're still in the company break.
744
00:42:42.400 --> 00:42:48.400
You know, we'll get back in a second. What happens
745
00:42:48.440 --> 00:42:53.360
when you're having fun? The last plug that I'll do,
746
00:42:53.440 --> 00:42:56.599
I probably shouldn't because I'm not sponsored. Maybe she will
747
00:42:56.639 --> 00:43:01.199
sponsor me. Is I tried to check cures products?
748
00:43:01.440 --> 00:43:02.000
Okay.
749
00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:05.960
I was at Alta with my mom because she was
750
00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:07.880
like take me, like she sprained her ankle. She was
751
00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:09.519
like take men olk and I was like, I don't
752
00:43:09.519 --> 00:43:12.639
have anything to buy, you know, let me just look.
753
00:43:12.920 --> 00:43:17.760
There's always there, And so I'm.
754
00:43:17.599 --> 00:43:20.159
Looking at I'm always looking at hair products because you
755
00:43:20.239 --> 00:43:24.320
never know. And so I on the end cap there's
756
00:43:24.400 --> 00:43:28.280
Ethima and it's like Shakira's face and I was like, wait,
757
00:43:28.400 --> 00:43:31.119
she has a product line. And then this guy comes
758
00:43:31.159 --> 00:43:33.719
over with like have a head of hair, and he's
759
00:43:33.760 --> 00:43:35.920
like those prugs are the best, and I'm like, what
760
00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:37.920
do you have to tell me about these progs, like
761
00:43:37.960 --> 00:43:40.960
you don't barely have any hair, sir and so. And
762
00:43:41.000 --> 00:43:43.039
he's like, well, I didn't say that, but I looked
763
00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:45.519
at him. I think my face comes with subtitles most
764
00:43:45.519 --> 00:43:49.039
of the time, and so he probably said it. And
765
00:43:49.079 --> 00:43:51.800
I looked at him like, like, how do you know
766
00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:55.119
you have no hair? And he was like, well, I'm
767
00:43:55.159 --> 00:43:58.320
the manager of the store. And so managers get invited
768
00:43:58.320 --> 00:44:01.679
to Miami to the Onto products and she was there
769
00:44:01.719 --> 00:44:05.320
and she talked about how she used the product before
770
00:44:05.360 --> 00:44:08.840
she she gave it a green light. M and so
771
00:44:09.559 --> 00:44:12.119
and so he was like, they had us try it
772
00:44:12.159 --> 00:44:13.840
and like everything is like blah blah blah. And so
773
00:44:13.880 --> 00:44:16.400
I was like, all right, so I bought it, and
774
00:44:16.440 --> 00:44:21.039
it's been the product that actually has kept my hair
775
00:44:21.840 --> 00:44:23.920
the most contained, no.
776
00:44:23.880 --> 00:44:26.960
Kidding, all right, I tried all of them. Well I
777
00:44:27.039 --> 00:44:29.280
might have to go try it too. That's very good
778
00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:29.480
to know.
779
00:44:29.679 --> 00:44:31.320
Sponsored Shakira sponsored me?
780
00:44:31.480 --> 00:44:32.440
You not sponsored?
781
00:44:33.519 --> 00:44:36.920
Yes, indeed? And all right, let's get back to the
782
00:44:36.960 --> 00:44:38.719
cop of Break because we're running out of time. Oh
783
00:44:38.760 --> 00:44:49.639
my gosh. I mean, I have so many questions about
784
00:44:49.639 --> 00:44:57.480
the book, but I think one that will inevitably bring
785
00:44:57.599 --> 00:45:01.559
things up, is the mom, I mean the mom. Yeah,
786
00:45:02.559 --> 00:45:05.519
and you and you share a lot about your family.
787
00:45:05.639 --> 00:45:11.039
Did you have conversations with them? No, okay, so you
788
00:45:11.119 --> 00:45:14.119
were just like, we're just gonna tell my truth, my story.
789
00:45:14.320 --> 00:45:15.840
You deal with it, yep.
790
00:45:16.119 --> 00:45:21.119
And I mean I was very delicate about and you know,
791
00:45:21.480 --> 00:45:25.280
there's a saying writing is rewriting, and I rewrote a
792
00:45:25.320 --> 00:45:30.039
lot of these things, were revised multiple times. And I
793
00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:39.480
really stand very confidently that this is my version of
794
00:45:39.880 --> 00:45:45.880
the events, and also recognizing that there could be another
795
00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:49.480
person could have a different version, you know, and that
796
00:45:49.599 --> 00:45:54.400
it's not really accusatory. It is however, my experience.
797
00:45:56.000 --> 00:46:01.960
I love that for sure. And so as as a lad,
798
00:46:02.280 --> 00:46:05.320
how do you and like the cultural expectation of like
799
00:46:05.440 --> 00:46:08.719
familiar first and familism and all the things, how did
800
00:46:08.840 --> 00:46:16.760
you if you had it shed the if that existed,
801
00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:20.199
the feeling or emotion of like I need to take
802
00:46:20.239 --> 00:46:24.360
care of them by like preserving the story in a way.
803
00:46:25.119 --> 00:46:31.920
Yeah, that's part of the problem is but it's not
804
00:46:32.400 --> 00:46:34.400
how I saw it as I was writing it. As
805
00:46:34.400 --> 00:46:38.400
I was writing it, I was struggling with that idea
806
00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:43.679
that we hold back certain things to protect, to protect
807
00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:48.119
as if as if really holding them back does protect
808
00:46:48.800 --> 00:46:53.000
you know, and it's like and like out of love
809
00:46:53.280 --> 00:46:59.159
and consideration maybe, but like, but as I was writing,
810
00:46:59.239 --> 00:47:01.480
I had to go from I need to just get
811
00:47:01.480 --> 00:47:04.880
this out right. And in the film, one of the
812
00:47:05.159 --> 00:47:07.599
many things I learned a while making the film was
813
00:47:08.280 --> 00:47:10.320
just get everything on camera.
814
00:47:12.199 --> 00:47:14.159
Then you edit yes, and.
815
00:47:14.119 --> 00:47:17.320
It's like instead of regretting not having gotten it at all.
816
00:47:17.960 --> 00:47:21.199
And so I took that same approach, but it was
817
00:47:21.679 --> 00:47:26.800
much harder because just even writing these things almost feels
818
00:47:26.840 --> 00:47:32.800
like you're committing a betrayal. Yes, and like I like
819
00:47:33.159 --> 00:47:38.519
it was painful to do that, and I noted that
820
00:47:38.679 --> 00:47:41.719
as like a place to heal, Right, like, what is
821
00:47:41.760 --> 00:47:45.079
really wrong with writing this story? What is really wrong
822
00:47:45.119 --> 00:47:50.519
with this? And is it wrong by the standards of
823
00:47:50.559 --> 00:47:52.719
my five or nine year old self I'm talking about
824
00:47:52.719 --> 00:47:54.920
the first story in the whole book, or is it
825
00:47:54.960 --> 00:47:59.360
wrong by my adult fifty five year old self, And like,
826
00:47:59.400 --> 00:48:02.000
as a fifty five year old, it's not wrong. There's
827
00:48:02.079 --> 00:48:07.480
nothing wrong, and if anything, it's vital. You know, if
828
00:48:07.480 --> 00:48:09.800
I weren't writing a book, but I was trying to
829
00:48:09.800 --> 00:48:12.639
work through these issues, and I was to use writing
830
00:48:13.559 --> 00:48:16.159
telling the story would be critical, yes, and telling it
831
00:48:16.199 --> 00:48:18.639
as I remember it, and working on it until I
832
00:48:18.679 --> 00:48:21.800
felt proud of the actual work of it, the art
833
00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:25.360
of it. Right to me, that would be critical. And
834
00:48:25.400 --> 00:48:30.719
then I went back and I polished and fashioned it
835
00:48:30.760 --> 00:48:34.599
in a way so that it would it wouldn't you know,
836
00:48:34.679 --> 00:48:39.639
So I could kind of contain it, but not like
837
00:48:39.679 --> 00:48:44.840
I I wasn't going to not share it now, because
838
00:48:44.960 --> 00:48:48.760
here's the thing. I only told the stories that mirrored
839
00:48:48.800 --> 00:48:52.119
the stories that were told to me. And I had
840
00:48:52.159 --> 00:48:57.199
this incredibly unique position where I had this body of work,
841
00:48:57.239 --> 00:48:59.559
this thing I did, and it made people feel so
842
00:48:59.639 --> 00:49:02.800
comfortab so as to share these digrettes with me over
843
00:49:02.920 --> 00:49:08.039
years and years and years, right, and I knew the pain,
844
00:49:08.280 --> 00:49:12.519
and I know the pain and the pain. Can I
845
00:49:12.599 --> 00:49:20.199
know for just from personal experience, that the just the
846
00:49:20.280 --> 00:49:23.880
idea of knowing you're not alone, right, just that simple
847
00:49:23.920 --> 00:49:27.159
idea can do so much work in our healing, and
848
00:49:27.199 --> 00:49:30.599
there's always a little bit more to go. And just knowing,
849
00:49:30.800 --> 00:49:33.199
you know what, I'm not the only one suffering here.
850
00:49:33.679 --> 00:49:38.199
I share the suffering with others. And there's something about
851
00:49:38.239 --> 00:49:42.800
that that like releases so much burden. And so for
852
00:49:42.960 --> 00:49:45.360
that it was important for me to keep those stories.
853
00:49:45.760 --> 00:49:50.360
And so I confidently, like I said, stand by the
854
00:49:50.360 --> 00:49:51.440
ones that I chose to tell.
855
00:49:52.239 --> 00:49:55.199
I love that. And I think something important to highlight,
856
00:49:55.239 --> 00:49:58.519
which you mentioned, is that the way that you share
857
00:49:58.559 --> 00:50:01.679
the stories is the way that you experience them. Yes,
858
00:50:01.920 --> 00:50:05.000
And it's like when you put siblings next to each
859
00:50:05.039 --> 00:50:07.119
other and you say, how was that Christmas in nineteen
860
00:50:07.199 --> 00:50:09.880
ninety seven, and each of them have two different stories
861
00:50:09.920 --> 00:50:13.519
because they were looking at it like if we look
862
00:50:14.559 --> 00:50:17.920
eagle's eye. They were standing in different places, they had
863
00:50:17.960 --> 00:50:20.719
different perspectives they had you know, maybe one went to
864
00:50:20.719 --> 00:50:23.000
the bathroom and one like put the finger on the
865
00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:26.599
stove and got burnt, you know, like, yeah, so your
866
00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:30.280
individual perception of what happened is what we get to read.
867
00:50:31.119 --> 00:50:35.840
And people may whoever, you know, all the names that
868
00:50:35.880 --> 00:50:38.639
we're mentioned, maybe like, but that's not how it went,
869
00:50:38.920 --> 00:50:40.239
but that's how you lived it.
870
00:50:40.880 --> 00:50:43.239
Yeah. And what's great is many of the names have
871
00:50:43.280 --> 00:50:46.960
been changed. Yes, that was the whole thing. But I
872
00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:49.440
did write it with their names up to the very end.
873
00:50:49.599 --> 00:50:51.920
So I cause like changing the names, and I have
874
00:50:52.000 --> 00:50:53.840
a little bit I have a little cheat sheet for
875
00:50:53.880 --> 00:50:58.360
myself for all the names that they changed, like who who. Yeah,
876
00:50:58.400 --> 00:51:00.920
like this person I call that, this person I called that,
877
00:51:01.400 --> 00:51:03.679
and I did that at the very very end. But
878
00:51:03.719 --> 00:51:05.760
the names have been changed. So even the people that
879
00:51:06.280 --> 00:51:09.599
I've written about are gonna my guess is they might wonder,
880
00:51:09.679 --> 00:51:11.920
like if that's them or that, or you know, if
881
00:51:11.960 --> 00:51:14.800
there's a certain family member, they'll wonder, but like, it's
882
00:51:14.840 --> 00:51:18.320
not to me. The story I told was for the
883
00:51:18.360 --> 00:51:22.079
purpose of healing and pointing out very specific things. So
884
00:51:22.159 --> 00:51:25.920
every chapter always opens with a very emotional story and
885
00:51:26.239 --> 00:51:30.159
it gets. So I do this to measure emotion, but
886
00:51:30.280 --> 00:51:32.840
really it gets. And I was gonna go like this,
887
00:51:34.280 --> 00:51:36.800
but it does sort of structurally go like this, But
888
00:51:36.880 --> 00:51:38.599
when we get to the end, we're at the most
889
00:51:38.599 --> 00:51:42.679
specific and most universal. Yes, And so that's like how
890
00:51:42.719 --> 00:51:45.199
every chapter is written. And so to me, the stories
891
00:51:45.239 --> 00:51:50.159
were more like devices, and so it's interesting to use
892
00:51:50.199 --> 00:51:52.360
a story as a device but then also have it
893
00:51:52.400 --> 00:51:57.159
be so deeply personal and have you know, so I'll
894
00:51:57.199 --> 00:52:00.599
have to deal with whomever gets offended by it, you know, later.
895
00:52:00.840 --> 00:52:04.000
But I did a lot of work to make sure
896
00:52:04.079 --> 00:52:07.119
that it was the most accurate telling based on my
897
00:52:07.440 --> 00:52:09.920
version of events, Yes, which is powerful.
898
00:52:10.480 --> 00:52:18.760
Have the people that are in the book Reddit. No, okay, that.
899
00:52:18.840 --> 00:52:22.480
Was a choice too. And also, you know, it's hard
900
00:52:22.559 --> 00:52:25.159
to This is also something that I learned. And you know,
901
00:52:25.239 --> 00:52:28.920
my creative partner is an Academy Award winning producer and
902
00:52:29.199 --> 00:52:32.760
taught me a lot about storytelling while in the many
903
00:52:32.800 --> 00:52:35.360
many years that we worked together, and one of them is,
904
00:52:35.719 --> 00:52:39.880
you know, you can't really create something like by committee,
905
00:52:40.039 --> 00:52:40.320
you know.
906
00:52:40.559 --> 00:52:44.800
So like it's your story, Yep.
907
00:52:44.719 --> 00:52:47.320
It had to stay contained. And so I don't know
908
00:52:47.360 --> 00:52:52.199
what's coming. I'm sure someone's gonna and I don't say
909
00:52:52.199 --> 00:52:55.119
this lightly. I hope that everyone who's talking to me
910
00:52:55.239 --> 00:53:00.679
today still wants to talk to me tomorrow. And I
911
00:53:00.920 --> 00:53:05.400
and also I know that sometimes people get upset and
912
00:53:05.400 --> 00:53:09.239
and I guess the other thing that you know crosses
913
00:53:09.280 --> 00:53:11.599
the mind is like people that are going to get
914
00:53:11.639 --> 00:53:14.599
upset on behalf of other people, you know what I mean,
915
00:53:15.079 --> 00:53:17.440
shover have done that. You should never have said that.
916
00:53:17.679 --> 00:53:19.880
Those are the things like that I that wake me
917
00:53:19.960 --> 00:53:20.519
up in the middle of.
918
00:53:20.519 --> 00:53:23.320
The night, you know, and how do you overcome that?
919
00:53:24.119 --> 00:53:31.880
You know? It's interesting that just really recognizing that, like
920
00:53:32.119 --> 00:53:35.159
I couldn't have I'm just proud of what I did.
921
00:53:35.400 --> 00:53:36.519
I'm proud of what I did.
922
00:53:36.639 --> 00:53:38.679
There's a lot of stories that crown to yourself in that.
923
00:53:39.079 --> 00:53:43.360
Yeah, Like I actually cut a lot. This book was
924
00:53:43.679 --> 00:53:47.239
way longer, and there were a lot more stories that
925
00:53:47.280 --> 00:53:50.400
are not in the book and could be in the
926
00:53:50.440 --> 00:53:55.440
category of really in the category of this, you know,
927
00:53:55.519 --> 00:54:01.679
this other area right of sensitivity, right, And I'm just
928
00:54:01.719 --> 00:54:04.719
I'm proud of what I did, and I'm so happy
929
00:54:04.760 --> 00:54:07.480
that it's like what I get to leave behind, and
930
00:54:07.519 --> 00:54:09.400
that my girls, my girls have not read it yet.
931
00:54:09.400 --> 00:54:12.119
They've read some They've let me read it. Yeah, they've
932
00:54:12.159 --> 00:54:13.800
let me read a few. You know. While I was
933
00:54:13.920 --> 00:54:16.679
writing some of it, I was reading it to them,
934
00:54:16.960 --> 00:54:18.880
but they haven't read the whole thing yet. And when
935
00:54:18.880 --> 00:54:21.079
they are ready to read it, like, I know that
936
00:54:21.119 --> 00:54:23.199
they're going to be proud too, you know. And I
937
00:54:23.239 --> 00:54:27.599
hope that they feel like wow, that they that they
938
00:54:27.719 --> 00:54:30.760
realized the guts that it took to do it, and
939
00:54:30.800 --> 00:54:34.519
that they source that level of confidence in themselves to
940
00:54:34.599 --> 00:54:38.960
do something boss like in their own life. You know.
941
00:54:39.719 --> 00:54:44.159
Yes, so good. I love the physics lesson that you
942
00:54:44.199 --> 00:54:48.559
give us at the end. Thank you, Thermal equilibrium. This
943
00:54:48.639 --> 00:54:52.840
is one I did highlight. Which do you want to
944
00:54:52.840 --> 00:54:54.199
tell us we are at a time.
945
00:54:54.280 --> 00:54:56.599
This is so oh, I'd love to tell you. I'd
946
00:54:56.599 --> 00:54:57.280
love to tell you.
947
00:54:57.719 --> 00:55:00.360
Okay, so tell me about thermin equ read.
948
00:55:01.320 --> 00:55:04.719
It's like so good, thank you so much, thank you
949
00:55:04.840 --> 00:55:07.639
for saying that, because it's the part that I'm I
950
00:55:07.639 --> 00:55:10.440
would say, you know, the book is a journey, you know,
951
00:55:10.639 --> 00:55:12.960
the whole roller coaster ups, downs and all around. And
952
00:55:12.960 --> 00:55:15.440
I'm so happy that you found that, that you found
953
00:55:15.480 --> 00:55:18.559
my sense of humor funny. I love that. That tells
954
00:55:18.599 --> 00:55:24.000
me a lot. And and that's like at the end,
955
00:55:24.079 --> 00:55:26.519
I didn't want it to be like end scene like
956
00:55:26.800 --> 00:55:29.079
this is all these terrible things and I gave you
957
00:55:29.119 --> 00:55:31.519
some tools and good luck. Now you know I didn't
958
00:55:31.599 --> 00:55:33.440
I didn't want to do that. I wanted to end
959
00:55:33.559 --> 00:55:36.639
on a on a high note and also on like
960
00:55:36.639 --> 00:55:39.039
like the biggest tool that I learned. And so while
961
00:55:39.079 --> 00:55:40.400
I was writing the book.
962
00:55:40.159 --> 00:55:41.280
It came from your daughter.
963
00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:44.159
I know. I mean, how cool is that? Right? Like,
964
00:55:44.559 --> 00:55:47.199
because I am like I and to know me is
965
00:55:47.239 --> 00:55:50.559
to know I'm obsessed with my girls and I just
966
00:55:50.679 --> 00:55:52.840
adore them. And you read the book and so you
967
00:55:52.920 --> 00:55:56.320
know the whole that that AM radio show that I
968
00:55:56.360 --> 00:55:58.679
listened to and all that stuff and like, you know,
969
00:55:58.760 --> 00:56:01.920
being their mom is like, so I feel very lucky.
970
00:56:01.960 --> 00:56:05.840
And they also happen to be amazing young women and
971
00:56:05.960 --> 00:56:08.760
like just so proud to be their mom. And so
972
00:56:09.679 --> 00:56:13.360
one of the one of the routines or traditions you know,
973
00:56:13.480 --> 00:56:15.599
that we have in my house is when they come
974
00:56:15.639 --> 00:56:19.400
home literally from school or work, I will listen to
975
00:56:19.480 --> 00:56:22.239
whatever they want to tell me, like literally, bring it.
976
00:56:22.320 --> 00:56:24.920
I'm just like here, I'm here for whatever you want
977
00:56:24.960 --> 00:56:28.039
to say. I'm here for it. And so this day,
978
00:56:28.039 --> 00:56:29.880
it was the winter, and my daughter came home and
979
00:56:29.920 --> 00:56:32.119
she was sitting at the counter drinking whatever, and I
980
00:56:32.239 --> 00:56:34.760
was either filling the dishwasher or emptying it story in
981
00:56:34.800 --> 00:56:38.320
my life, and she was telling me what happened at
982
00:56:38.599 --> 00:56:42.400
in her ap physics class, and she was like, think
983
00:56:42.440 --> 00:56:44.639
about it like this, mom, Like we're in Breckinridge. We're
984
00:56:44.639 --> 00:56:46.679
in a cabin in the woods. Like that's Breconridge is
985
00:56:46.719 --> 00:56:48.760
like the which I'm sure you know, it's like this
986
00:56:48.760 --> 00:56:51.800
beautiful mountain town and it gets snowy and cold, and
987
00:56:51.880 --> 00:56:53.800
let's say we're all in the house and then Daddy
988
00:56:53.840 --> 00:56:56.199
knocks on the door and comes in and it's winter
989
00:56:56.400 --> 00:56:59.480
and cold out and the first thing we say, is
990
00:56:59.599 --> 00:57:03.840
don't like the cold in and she's and I was like, okay, yeah,
991
00:57:03.880 --> 00:57:06.119
so tell me how this works, because that's that doesn't
992
00:57:06.159 --> 00:57:08.840
sound awf or weird to me. And she said, actually,
993
00:57:08.880 --> 00:57:12.960
that's not how it works. Cold doesn't move. The warmth
994
00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:17.119
in the home is what moves out, and in this example,
995
00:57:17.800 --> 00:57:22.679
the warmth tries to warm up the cold air outside.
996
00:57:22.760 --> 00:57:24.920
And so the whole purpose of that metaphor is to
997
00:57:25.000 --> 00:57:29.679
understand warmth will leave spaces to try to equalize the
998
00:57:29.719 --> 00:57:33.920
temperature anywhere, even if it's the outside, the entire outside, right,
999
00:57:34.360 --> 00:57:36.119
And so when she was telling me this, I was like,
1000
00:57:36.199 --> 00:57:39.400
holy macrol, Like I just kept needing her to explain
1001
00:57:39.480 --> 00:57:42.199
it again and again and again because I just I
1002
00:57:42.199 --> 00:57:45.079
felt like it was such a great metaphor for belonging
1003
00:57:45.239 --> 00:57:50.079
and for this book and for a framework for healing.
1004
00:57:50.199 --> 00:57:55.719
And that's and so if we think about our lives
1005
00:57:55.880 --> 00:57:59.480
as like a house, and in our house, there are
1006
00:57:59.559 --> 00:58:02.320
some rooms that are warm and some rooms that are cold.
1007
00:58:02.760 --> 00:58:06.239
And the rooms that are cold are the rooms where
1008
00:58:06.239 --> 00:58:07.920
we have stories like the ones that I shared in
1009
00:58:07.960 --> 00:58:10.320
the book, and where we might have locked away and
1010
00:58:10.320 --> 00:58:14.480
thrown away the key and believed this thing that we're
1011
00:58:14.519 --> 00:58:17.920
broken because these terrible things have happened, right, like a
1012
00:58:18.000 --> 00:58:22.239
sexual assault or domestic violence, or messing up with money
1013
00:58:22.360 --> 00:58:25.960
or losing a job or whatever. You know, there's ten taboos,
1014
00:58:26.000 --> 00:58:30.039
but really there's probably, honestly, there's about twenty to thirty
1015
00:58:30.079 --> 00:58:34.119
different taboos in the book that I talk about. And
1016
00:58:34.199 --> 00:58:39.000
so we decide something about ourselves. Oftentimes it's this thing
1017
00:58:39.039 --> 00:58:44.280
about feeling broken, being fundamentally broken. So we shut the door,
1018
00:58:44.679 --> 00:58:48.440
we throw away the key, and everything inside stays frozen
1019
00:58:48.440 --> 00:58:50.800
in time, and then we only interact in the warm
1020
00:58:50.840 --> 00:58:55.639
spaces where communication is easy and where things are smooth. Right.
1021
00:58:55.719 --> 00:58:57.960
That makes sense as a way to live a life,
1022
00:58:58.039 --> 00:59:01.840
It really does. Until we want to do something. We
1023
00:59:01.880 --> 00:59:03.599
want to start a business, we want to get a promotion,
1024
00:59:03.719 --> 00:59:06.000
we want to get married, or be in a relationship
1025
00:59:06.079 --> 00:59:08.679
or get out of a relationship, or move across the country,
1026
00:59:08.960 --> 00:59:11.760
or do something out of our comfort zone right that
1027
00:59:11.760 --> 00:59:15.360
we exist in right now, and all of a sudden,
1028
00:59:15.360 --> 00:59:17.400
we start making moves to do that, and we start
1029
00:59:17.440 --> 00:59:20.960
bumping into those cold spaces and not understanding why is
1030
00:59:21.000 --> 00:59:24.239
it that when I think about starting this business or
1031
00:59:24.239 --> 00:59:26.719
making this movie or whatever it is, that's that your
1032
00:59:26.719 --> 00:59:29.519
heart desires that you have not yet done. Why is
1033
00:59:29.559 --> 00:59:31.360
it that I keep thinking about that thing that I
1034
00:59:31.440 --> 00:59:34.360
witnessed when I was nine? Why can I stop thinking?
1035
00:59:34.559 --> 00:59:38.599
Why are some conversations so hard for me here but
1036
00:59:38.760 --> 00:59:43.480
so easy for me here? And my assertion is that
1037
00:59:43.679 --> 00:59:47.239
it's because these cold spaces right that are just frozen.
1038
00:59:48.480 --> 00:59:55.159
They are like frozen in time and stuck and completely available,
1039
00:59:55.320 --> 00:59:59.239
ready and waiting to be warmed up. So they are
1040
00:59:59.280 --> 01:00:02.960
pure possible. However, if we are not willing to open
1041
01:00:03.000 --> 01:00:06.320
the door and let that warmth flow into which it will,
1042
01:00:06.519 --> 01:00:08.880
even if you open it a crack, the warmth will
1043
01:00:08.960 --> 01:00:12.280
fly right in and it'll try to thaw out the space.
1044
01:00:12.719 --> 01:00:16.320
But we there's a willingness challenge there for all of us.
1045
01:00:16.360 --> 01:00:19.400
And that is, if I tell this story about what
1046
01:00:19.519 --> 01:00:24.239
happened when I was nine, like, I don't know like
1047
01:00:25.280 --> 01:00:29.599
who I am if you know what I witnessed, right, yes, like,
1048
01:00:29.719 --> 01:00:33.320
or if I tell what happened in college, I don't
1049
01:00:33.440 --> 01:00:36.599
know what you'll think of me and what you'll make
1050
01:00:36.679 --> 01:00:40.079
up about me or right and so like. The idea
1051
01:00:40.440 --> 01:00:44.239
is that we take these cold spaces, and the cold
1052
01:00:44.239 --> 01:00:46.760
spaces should have like signs on them, like all the
1053
01:00:46.760 --> 01:00:51.800
different taboos, right, and we decide okay, I'm gonna I'm
1054
01:00:51.840 --> 01:00:56.239
gonna warm up this cold space, then those become the
1055
01:00:56.280 --> 01:01:01.159
places that we become free. Yes, And so that is
1056
01:01:01.280 --> 01:01:03.960
really the whole point of the book is to recognize
1057
01:01:04.360 --> 01:01:06.760
that what's frozen can be thought and it's not going
1058
01:01:06.800 --> 01:01:08.639
to be freezer burned, and it's still going to taste great,
1059
01:01:09.400 --> 01:01:12.880
like you know what I mean. Like there's always hope
1060
01:01:12.880 --> 01:01:17.719
impossibility available, and that sometimes warming up some of these
1061
01:01:17.719 --> 01:01:23.239
spaces means you should seek healing, you know, a therapist,
1062
01:01:23.400 --> 01:01:28.000
a healer, start a new modality of healing. Tell one person,
1063
01:01:28.199 --> 01:01:32.000
tell whatever, but like, but begin your journey of warming
1064
01:01:32.079 --> 01:01:35.719
up those cold spaces. Because we all deserve that. We
1065
01:01:35.800 --> 01:01:38.760
all deserve to feel free and to feel the sense
1066
01:01:38.800 --> 01:01:41.639
of agency that we were born with. And that's our
1067
01:01:41.719 --> 01:01:45.599
God given right to feel our own power. And that
1068
01:01:45.679 --> 01:01:47.679
is the whole purpose of the book, is to give
1069
01:01:47.760 --> 01:01:51.239
that gift of inspiring someone to believe, even for a second,
1070
01:01:51.719 --> 01:01:54.360
that they could feel more powerful in their life when
1071
01:01:54.360 --> 01:01:57.280
they believed before they read it that they were broken.
1072
01:01:59.679 --> 01:02:05.360
Done. Microp, nothing else to say, thank you for so
1073
01:02:05.599 --> 01:02:11.920
much for your work, for being a great model for
1074
01:02:13.480 --> 01:02:16.719
being vulnerable and open and honest and sharing your truth
1075
01:02:16.800 --> 01:02:20.920
because it is it is, it is. I mean, it's
1076
01:02:21.000 --> 01:02:23.280
a liberating guide for Latinas. And I do think that
1077
01:02:23.400 --> 01:02:28.159
as you, as you share this, especially with them, with
1078
01:02:28.239 --> 01:02:34.880
the concept with thermal equilibrium, through you, like through your stories,
1079
01:02:34.880 --> 01:02:36.239
you're also warming up ours.
1080
01:02:36.719 --> 01:02:42.039
Oh thanks for saying that. Thank you. That makes me
1081
01:02:42.119 --> 01:02:45.000
so happy to hear. I appreciate that.
1082
01:02:45.239 --> 01:02:47.039
It opens the door a little like it cracks the
1083
01:02:47.039 --> 01:02:50.079
door to be like, see, yeah, she didn't.
1084
01:02:49.760 --> 01:02:55.039
Die exactly exactly, you know.
1085
01:02:56.079 --> 01:03:01.960
Free yourself from carrying all those icicles or ice you. Yes,
1086
01:03:03.119 --> 01:03:06.719
we don't need them, We don't need them indeed. Yeah, Denise,
1087
01:03:06.719 --> 01:03:08.679
thank you so much for coming to Kambum.
1088
01:03:09.320 --> 01:03:11.079
Oh you're so welcome. Can I tell people when the
1089
01:03:11.119 --> 01:03:11.960
book is coming.
1090
01:03:11.760 --> 01:03:15.159
Out, and please share all the places and spaces where
1091
01:03:15.159 --> 01:03:17.280
we can find you, where we can buy the book,
1092
01:03:17.519 --> 01:03:18.480
all the things.
1093
01:03:18.760 --> 01:03:23.920
So it's coming out August eighteenth, and any pre order
1094
01:03:24.000 --> 01:03:27.840
that happens between now and the week of I think
1095
01:03:27.880 --> 01:03:30.119
August twenty third, which is the end of that week,
1096
01:03:30.400 --> 01:03:34.079
will count towards getting on the New York Times Bestseller List,
1097
01:03:34.239 --> 01:03:38.639
USA Today bestseller List. And that is absolutely what I want,
1098
01:03:39.000 --> 01:03:42.960
and because because that means that the book will be
1099
01:03:43.000 --> 01:03:46.039
in front of a lot more people when it gets
1100
01:03:46.199 --> 01:03:50.159
recognized on those lists. And it is my commitment that
1101
01:03:50.199 --> 01:03:54.079
every Latina. My editor said at one point during our
1102
01:03:54.159 --> 01:03:57.519
incredible time together, she said, this book will be on
1103
01:03:57.559 --> 01:03:59.840
the shelf of every Latina, even if she's not a
1104
01:04:01.079 --> 01:04:04.000
because she'll need this, you know, in her life, like
1105
01:04:04.159 --> 01:04:08.039
as a guide for her life. And that's my greatest
1106
01:04:08.039 --> 01:04:11.800
hope is that I'll end up on everyone's shelf. Yes,
1107
01:04:12.119 --> 01:04:13.480
please preorder.
1108
01:04:13.039 --> 01:04:19.679
It, preorder it. I Yes, pre orders help authors a lot. Yes,
1109
01:04:19.760 --> 01:04:25.159
because it's it's also a way for us to let
1110
01:04:25.199 --> 01:04:28.880
the publishers know that more books written from us are needed.
1111
01:04:29.599 --> 01:04:33.000
It's so true, like the more Latinas that make these lists,
1112
01:04:33.320 --> 01:04:36.679
the more they respect us as writers. And that is
1113
01:04:37.159 --> 01:04:40.960
very true. And so for that reason as well, to
1114
01:04:41.079 --> 01:04:43.840
prop up not just me, but any Latina author that
1115
01:04:43.880 --> 01:04:47.559
you see, Like I'm all, I pre order books that
1116
01:04:47.599 --> 01:04:50.800
I probably will never read for this, Yeah, just like,
1117
01:04:51.320 --> 01:04:53.440
let me let this is like a twenty nine It
1118
01:04:53.559 --> 01:04:56.679
cost twenty nine dollars to buy a hardcover book ish, right,
1119
01:04:57.159 --> 01:05:00.840
and you know that that's going towards its You're voting
1120
01:05:01.119 --> 01:05:04.679
for Latinos. Yes, you know, yes, so to warm up
1121
01:05:04.760 --> 01:05:08.400
that cold space of yes, Latinos, don't you know that
1122
01:05:08.440 --> 01:05:11.800
they say Latinos don't read and they also say Latinos
1123
01:05:11.840 --> 01:05:14.760
don't buy books. That's not okay, agreed, and.
1124
01:05:14.719 --> 01:05:19.159
So because that's not true, Yeah, totally, So pre order.
1125
01:05:19.320 --> 01:05:21.440
What I invite people to do that I do is
1126
01:05:21.639 --> 01:05:25.960
I typically order four books, I keep one, I gift one,
1127
01:05:26.199 --> 01:05:30.360
and I dropped to the the like street libraries, you know,
1128
01:05:30.440 --> 01:05:32.360
like like yes Rais.
1129
01:05:32.960 --> 01:05:35.280
Yeah, yeah, we have them all over our neighborhood yea,
1130
01:05:35.320 --> 01:05:37.360
and Watch Park yeah yeah, yeah, I love those little
1131
01:05:37.360 --> 01:05:39.039
free libraries. Yeah.
1132
01:05:39.079 --> 01:05:41.480
My strategy for pre orders because I interview a lot
1133
01:05:41.519 --> 01:05:43.519
of other and I have a lot of Latinos because
1134
01:05:43.679 --> 01:05:46.760
my thing, you know, do is you want done unto
1135
01:05:46.840 --> 01:05:48.760
you when I read a book, I want a lot
1136
01:05:48.760 --> 01:05:53.000
of people to pre order. And so four books, which
1137
01:05:53.039 --> 01:05:54.559
is less than one hundred dollars many.
1138
01:05:54.360 --> 01:05:56.719
Times, yeah yeah, you know it is.
1139
01:05:56.679 --> 01:05:59.559
Like you spend one hundred bucks going to dinner.
1140
01:05:59.280 --> 01:06:02.320
Now, hmm, easily easily.
1141
01:06:02.440 --> 01:06:05.920
So a hundred bucks four books, one for you want
1142
01:06:05.960 --> 01:06:08.880
to gift. And sometimes I'm like, I don't know who
1143
01:06:08.880 --> 01:06:10.360
I need to give this to. So I just keep
1144
01:06:10.400 --> 01:06:13.000
it on the shelf. And then when it's like someone's
1145
01:06:13.000 --> 01:06:17.119
birthday or what like, it's great to give away a book, yeah,
1146
01:06:17.360 --> 01:06:20.440
you know, and then two for the like little libraries.
1147
01:06:21.079 --> 01:06:24.800
Yeah. Oh that's awesome, Thank you so much. I so
1148
01:06:24.920 --> 01:06:27.159
appreciate this. And what a wonderful conversation.
1149
01:06:27.960 --> 01:06:29.760
Yeah, we did a lot of side quests, but I
1150
01:06:29.760 --> 01:06:39.519
think a pleasure Denise almost like guys, Okay, that was
1151
01:06:39.559 --> 01:06:43.119
my conversation with de niece and one of my favorite
1152
01:06:43.119 --> 01:06:46.559
things that I know I'm spoiling it, but it's the
1153
01:06:46.840 --> 01:06:52.760
lesson from Denise's daughter that she describes in the book
1154
01:06:52.840 --> 01:06:54.800
as they were in the kitchen, and she tells us
1155
01:06:55.000 --> 01:07:02.920
actually how this physical lesson became in many ways the
1156
01:07:02.920 --> 01:07:09.280
foundation of the book. Cold doesn't move heat, warmth fire
1157
01:07:09.719 --> 01:07:12.800
is what moves. So when we say don't let the
1158
01:07:12.840 --> 01:07:17.239
cold in, we actually have it backwards. As Denise shared
1159
01:07:17.280 --> 01:07:21.199
with us, it's the warmth that leaves the room reaching
1160
01:07:21.239 --> 01:07:28.159
out for whatever is frozen, looking to thought. And the
1161
01:07:28.239 --> 01:07:31.079
thing is, as Denise shared with us, we all have
1162
01:07:31.360 --> 01:07:35.760
frozen rooms. The money story, the chapter about the familia,
1163
01:07:36.599 --> 01:07:40.280
the thing we locked away and you know, said we
1164
01:07:40.400 --> 01:07:44.599
didn't want to ever talk about. But maybe it's a
1165
01:07:44.639 --> 01:07:49.239
story where we decided it made us broken, and maybe
1166
01:07:49.239 --> 01:07:54.599
that story is the one that needs to be thought out,
1167
01:07:55.000 --> 01:07:57.000
because many times we choose to leave in the warm
1168
01:07:57.079 --> 01:08:00.760
rooms where everything is easy, until we reach for something
1169
01:08:00.800 --> 01:08:05.159
else and we start bumping into the cold. Sometimes that
1170
01:08:05.199 --> 01:08:11.880
cold arrives. Sometimes you face the cold. You are made
1171
01:08:11.920 --> 01:08:15.880
to face it. And what I learned and what I
1172
01:08:15.920 --> 01:08:21.000
got from Denise's conversation from this conversation today is nothing
1173
01:08:21.079 --> 01:08:25.159
in the rooms is permanent, because everything that is frozen
1174
01:08:25.279 --> 01:08:30.399
can be thought again. You know, Cela Freezer burned and
1175
01:08:30.560 --> 01:08:35.119
it still can be good. The other thing is that
1176
01:08:35.199 --> 01:08:39.039
you don't have to be finished to begin. You can
1177
01:08:39.079 --> 01:08:44.079
be both powerful and unfinished. We all are. And just
1178
01:08:44.119 --> 01:08:46.359
like Denise models to us, she didn't wait to be
1179
01:08:46.399 --> 01:08:49.399
healed to tell the truth. She told it well, she
1180
01:08:49.479 --> 01:08:52.960
was still in it and she through her words it
1181
01:08:53.000 --> 01:08:57.239
allows us to also heal our own And as I shared,
1182
01:08:57.960 --> 01:09:01.039
as I read her book, I cried, I laughed, cried again.
1183
01:09:01.119 --> 01:09:04.199
I had to go outside and process, and I think
1184
01:09:04.199 --> 01:09:07.680
that's the power of telling the truth. Her book, What
1185
01:09:07.760 --> 01:09:12.399
Will They Say, comes out August eighteenth, So remember this
1186
01:09:12.520 --> 01:09:16.840
is a super important time for authors. Pre order pre
1187
01:09:17.000 --> 01:09:19.840
order today. Don't be like I'll make a mental note
1188
01:09:19.840 --> 01:09:22.039
and do it. Do it because it helps put a
1189
01:09:22.119 --> 01:09:24.640
Latina author on the New York Times bestseller list. It
1190
01:09:24.680 --> 01:09:30.159
helps publishers understand that we have buying power. We do.
1191
01:09:30.520 --> 01:09:34.800
We know we have over a trillion dollars in latinas Latino,
1192
01:09:34.880 --> 01:09:39.479
latinas Brown people have over trillion dollars in buying power.
1193
01:09:39.640 --> 01:09:45.399
Let's uplift each other. Let's put us in bestseller lists. Borgue.
1194
01:09:48.359 --> 01:09:52.560
My recommendation is I always get two books, buy one
1195
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in gift one, buy three. If you can buy one,
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gift one and go leave one in a little free
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live in your neighborhood. Because our stories deserve to be
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out there in the world, and more people need to
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read them. So if this conversation maybe opened the door
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and the warmth came out, and it's looking to thought
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some of the places and spaces that may be a
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little cold, maybe you're ready to understand the voice that
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taught you to keep it locked in the first place.
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So I invite you to take the Culture Quiz two
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three minutes. It's free. It gives a name to the
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wound you've been carrying. Without knowing. Head over to govakumpum
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dot com, fort slash quiz. Thank you so much for
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being here, Tag me, send me DMS, tell me your reactions.
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It's always a joy to hear from you. Stay shinya
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Compum is created by our small but mighty team. Content
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production by Nancy Heimis, podcast management by Marulinardin, social media
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and marketing by Brenda Figuero. And meet your host Vamcouas.
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To keep the Kavasito brewing and the healing flowing, join
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the Supporters Club for only five dollars a month and
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access early episodes, behind the scenes vibes, and exclusive minnesotes
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you won't hear anywhere else. Screenshot this episode and tag
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me and share what resonated. I love seeing your takeaways.
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Follow on your favorite podcast platform and subscribe to our
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YouTube channel. Let's keep the conversation going with us on
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social media at Kapa compump podcast because your voice always
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matters there. We love being on Instagram and Facebook. Gracias
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for listening to Kafa compam as, spread ideas, move people, production,
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for bird episodes, guest info or resources, visit kefakombam dot
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com and if you're healing from Kadiahta culture and don't
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01:11:59.039 --> 01:12:01.520
know where to start. You can take the quiz Gava
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01:12:01.600 --> 01:12:05.439
combam dot com, Ford slash Quiz for TIA Wisdom and
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Carino just for you.