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Hello and welcome to Bubbles and Breakdowns, a space designed for you to show up as your beautifully imperfect self where we dive into the good, the bad, and the bubbly.
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I'm Ashley.
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And I'm Katrina.
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Ashley, do you ever find yourself trapped in an endless loop of replaying maybe an old argument or obsessing over a worst-case scenario, maybe?
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Only every day of my life.
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Well, in this episode, bubbles and breakdowns, we're talking about stress-inducing rumination.
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We're going to take a look at why maybe our brains get stuck in that loop and on these exhausting mental tracks.
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And often rumination can just stem from this misguided survival mechanism.
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I think this is really interesting.
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And it's triggering a chronic stress within our bodies.
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So it's like, stop.
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Stop.
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But we're going to dive into how do you stop?
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What are the strategies to help break the cycle and manage our thoughts?
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So it's not just about achieving a perfect quiet mind overnight.
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It's going to be little steps, but of empowering us with an act to reclaim our mental energy, our time, and our peace.
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So let's discover how stepping away from that loop can open up the door, hopefully, to a calmer, more intentional life.
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And you know what?
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That sounds pretty great to me.
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Same.
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Okay, if you have never ruminated in your life, I feel like you're lucky.
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You're so lucky.
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Yeah.
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And you probably just don't give an S H I T because this is something I feel like that has plagued me for a very, very long time.
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So maybe let's start with like, what is rumination, right?
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So it's really just thinking, pondering, obsessing over the same thought over and over and over and over when you're not really discovering what a resolution for that is.
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And it's something that's happened in the past.
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Yes.
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Like replaying, replaying.
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It could be something that happened the same day, yesterday, five years ago.
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Yep.
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But just something that really, and it can happen anytime.
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I feel like sometimes it happens to me when I'm trying to go to bed.
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Yes.
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Sometimes it happens to me in the pickup line at school.
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Like it's just and part of it too, the things that I ruminate on, you tell me the same.
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Is usually when it's something that I think I did wrong.
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A hundred percent.
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Or I did, or I feel is this person mad at me?
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Yes.
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And I think getting older, I tend to ruminate less because I think I I I'm starting to not care.
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But the things that I care about, it's just like, no, no, no, this person doesn't know me that well.
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They're not trying to.
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Yes.
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And maybe, you know, I'm assuming they're thinking one thing.
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Half the time, if I if if this obsesses my thoughts enough and I talk to someone about it, they're like, I don't even know what you're talking about.
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Right.
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And you're like, oh my God, I spent so much time obsessing or ruminating over this fact when I'm in the clear.
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So it's so interesting because what you just described, number one, couldn't relate more, which is it's replaying what we did, but usually it's replaying what we did and how it affects other people or what they think about us or how they feel about us.
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Are they still our friend?
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Da-da-da-da.
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Am I, did I just have a career-limiting move at work?
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Am I ruining my reputation?
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It's all of this like self-doubt and when you're highly critical.
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Highly critical and and writing narratives about what the other person, oh, they think I'm a total idiot now.
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I can't do my job, or that I don't care about them because I've snapped at them when I was PMSing, or it can be so many, so many different things.
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And here's the crazy part.
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When I was looking into this, about okay, to I've known rumination is a problem for myself or my husband for many, many years.
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Right.
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It's that our brains mistake it for solutioning by thinking through it.
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Our brains are going, okay, if I think about this enough, it's gonna fix itself, or I'm gonna think through it enough that it's gonna like solve the problem, but it's not.
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It's like your brain, your brain can't reconcile.
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And so your brain is trying to make sense of it, it's trying to fix it.
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And the fact of the matter about rumination, it's like spoiler alert, it's in the past.
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You can't change it.
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Done and done.
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It's done and done.
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And so there's people who I think start to really work on this rumination, and then they'll say, okay, what's done is done.
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I'm gonna move on.
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And then there's other people that ruminate a lot longer, right?
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And and so when we look at this, that problem-solving illusion, like our brains think they're fixing something, they're actually just exhausting us.
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Our brain is just exhausting us, stealing resources, sleep, like you said, like, oh, it's one o'clock in the morning.
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What a perfect time to replay the last three years of events.
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It's rumination time, rumination hour.
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Let's do this.
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I think the other thing that I do too is at this time of night, sometimes you we get intrusive thoughts.
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And I feel like they're linked, right?
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So, like, intrusive thoughts are just things that are scenarios maybe that could never happen.
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Maybe could happen.
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Maybe could.
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And but it's just more that again, I think it's something for me that like scares me.
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So I'll think about going on a vacation.
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Are we gonna be safe?
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Is the you know what I mean?
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And that's anxiety because that's actually in the future.
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Yeah.
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So like rumination is the past, and anxiety is the future, and all of it is bad.
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All of it, you know.
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So, like, when we think about examples of things we ruminate out, where you you said some of them in the beginning.
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I'll share one, and then I'm interested to know, you know, my a consistent one for me is that I say something in a meeting, and you can always tell when you say something in a meeting, when either people like pick up the thing and they go with it, and then they like reinforce it through continuing to talk about it, or it wasn't a good thing to say, and no one agrees with you when they literally change the subject or they talk about something completely different.
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And moments in the past where this the latter has happened where they're like, and whatever Katrina said made no sense, and then they like want to move on.
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Um, I'm always like, Am I alone?
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Like the I start to think, like, am I alone on this?
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Like, did I say it wrong?
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Because, you know, and what that does for me, Ashley, is it triggers this like, is my thinking broken?
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Like, is my critical eye and my critical brain not working correctly?
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Those are the types of thoughts I start having.
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And it never is about, oh, maybe, like the flip side is that that other person really just wanted to get their point across.
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Right.
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I don't ever write that narrative, you know?
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And so instead, it's like all of this spotlight and this magnifying glass goes back on ourselves.
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And that's the worst part about rumination, is because you literally, when you're ruminating, you are worst-case scenario for whatever you don't know how people felt, you don't know how they're reacting to you, and you are thinking the worst for sure.
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Well, and I feel like a lot of times too, I've done that when I was in the working world, but it was like if I made a misstep, or if I got, I'll get this to you by end of day, and then you wake up and you're like, oh my gosh, I did not get that email out, or just because we we are overloaded with so so much.
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Right.
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And I think it comes into this like not facade, but like of who we think we are on the outside.
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Whenever that gets hurt, affected, trampled on, we're gonna worry.
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And I I don't know, I I'm so curious.
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Like, is this a type A person thing?
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You know what?
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I I think it is type A perfectionism masquerading as for some reason, we just think it's like I don't know, fruitful.
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Right.
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You know, and I do think there is some rumination we're not solutioning, you're not solutioning, but also it's like you can't solution maybe with your thoughts.
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I mean, yes, I think you can arrive to a point where you have to think through something and then you have to go, this isn't, I'm not, I can't fix this without a third party.
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Right.
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Or I can't fix this, period.
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And if you're not getting to those places, then you're just playing it over and over and over.
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And and I think to that point, Ashley, it's like kind of addictive.
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Yes.
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Because you're like, if I think about this long enough, if I feel bad about this long enough, if I try to reconcile this long enough, then it's gonna make the importance that like shows that I care and that I'm a good person and I'm gonna let this bother me because I'm a good person, kind of thing.
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All maybe we're trying to save ourselves from doing that again.
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Yeah.
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Because we know how it makes us feel.
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Yeah.
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So we're kind of like, okay, I'm I'm gonna think this through to say, how could I have done this different next time?
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And a lot of the times it's stuff that doesn't affect you surviving on this planet.
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Yes.
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Right?
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It is at least because we're lucky, right?
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We've got shelter, we've got food.
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So, like, back thinking of like, how are we gonna survive, right?
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This is more ourself.
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Yes, and how we're perceived.
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And how we're perceived.
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And maybe we're just like, I don't want to get here again.
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So let me think about this.
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Yeah.
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It's almost like the degree at 3 a.m.
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to figure out how I can better present myself.
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I love that theory.
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I mean, I bet there's some psychologists out there that could like reinforce.
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I mean, it makes sense to me because you're kind of like, I don't know, waterboarding yourself of being like, don't ever do that again.
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Don't put your foot in your mouth like that again, or ooh, really touchy subject.
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Don't bring that up with your friend again.
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You saw how they reacted, like fill in the blank.
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But the other thing I would say is yes, there's maybe a positive there with what you just said.
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Like maybe it helps us be better people.
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It doesn't feel positive, but I'm just saying maybe.
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But maybe, but but then also I do think there is something to that because if you've ever done something that you have regret or you feel bad about, I, for one, will literally say in my head, oh, I never want to do that again.
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I never want to feel like this again.
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Yes.
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And I think that that is also a way to like stop the rumination.
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Totally.
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Okay, lesson learned.
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I don't want to ever do that again.
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Yeah, I don't want to feel like this.
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But what I'll say is like the stress-inducing part of it is huge.
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Huge.
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Because when you're ruminating, I I'll share some of my ticks.
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Yeah.
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I don't know how you operate.
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Some people get tight shoulders, headaches, like da-da-da-da.
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I pick my cuticles.
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Oh, I am anxiety and rumination.
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For some reason, I'm picking them right now.
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Right, right, right, right.
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And I also do something that only one other friend of mine uh that I've known in my life also did, and we'd always joke with each other because we'd like to slap each other's hands away, bite the inside of my cheek.
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And like it's it's called stimming, it's like stimulation or whatever.
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But when we're having difficult thoughts, it's starting to physically manifest, is the point.
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It's coming up as tension, stimming, expressing in our physical bodies.
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And so it's not just thoughts, right?
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And I think that the coolest thing about healthcare and like clinical space right now is the most successful doctors are the ones who are living in the clinical world and the psychology world because brains and bodies are connected.
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They are and so this is why I'm like, okay, rumination, bad for you.
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What are some things that you feel in your body?
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Like when you are ruminating 100%.
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I feel like I am I've always been the tight shoulder person, like all the time.
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Like all my stress, all my tension is here, which leads to my TMJ.
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Oh, you have to do that.
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And I clench my teeth.
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You do.
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Yes.
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So it used to be worse in college, so it's gotten better, but I've always been a clencher, which then leads to headaches too.
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So it's all that stress.
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And now you can see why anytime your body is in this fight or flight stress mode, yeah, it's bad for you.
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So bad.
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You know what I mean?
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And I think there's some stimulation that like we can think about things, but like, how do we break this cycle?
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Right.
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How do we get out of this?
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Because it's not okay.
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No, I agree.
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You know, and I think there's things where it's like, I've like I've said, as I get older, I think I mentioned this every episode, I'm more confident in myself.
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Right.
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I think I've started to tend to ruminate a little less.
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But maybe my worries are becoming a little more frivolous, if that even makes sense.
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Well, and I think that's actually more healthy.
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Yeah.
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You know, like if they're lighter worries than they are these like catastrophic, self-deprecating, I'm never gonna have friends type of worries.
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Um yeah, that's so interesting.
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And I think when I when I was reflecting on rumination and the physical toll, I read this book years ago and I didn't even think of it until we were just chatting.
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It's called the telomere effect.
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So I'm gonna get like a little scholarly, a little science-y for all my for all my science nerds out there.
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So our little cells in our body have these little end caps on them.
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Think of a shoelace with a uh a plastic tube on the end of it to keep it from fraying, right?
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So our cells have these.
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They're called telomeres.
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And there's lots of things in our lives that can shorten the length of our telomeres.
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So you think about a shoelace when it gets worn out and those things break away.
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Think of your telomeres getting shorter and your cells dying, becoming senescent cells.
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So essentially, it can be bad food, you know, it can be lunch meat, it can be cigarettes, it can be alcohol, all those things.
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But one of the biggest is stress and particularly rumination.
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So in that book, Ashley, it was highlighting over replaying thoughts over and over, negative thoughts, ruminating, had a directly negative tie to the health and vitality of ourselves.
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We're killing ourselves.
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Yes.
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And this is where I'm like, this is why right now the importance of tying what we think and what we do in our bodies is so, so important because everyone maybe rolls their eyes when people say, We are our thoughts.
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But like, we are our thoughts.
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Like we literally have so much control over our physical body by what we think.
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And it's hard sometimes because you're like, Well, I can't control my thoughts.
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And it may feel that way, but it just takes a lot of diligence and a lot of like this whole topic of neuroplasticity of the younger you are, the easier it is to kind of like reframe the way you think, versus now when you get older, it does get harder.
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So you then have to be more intentional.
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So I think we've got some ideas that we looked into, and we could share, you know, how to start kind of like reprogramming rumination, particularly, and try to isolate it and contain it versus letting it creep into every night and keeping us up.
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Absolutely.
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And I think too, this some of these also work for not just ruminating things that are in your mind, but also for challenges that occur that are very real.
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So I think that's something to call out too, because this first one, I just think of one of my best girlfriends in the world.
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So this is this is tip one is the worry window.
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Okay.
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So give yourself permission to ruminate, to worry for 15 minutes a day at a specific time, set that timer, and then you're done.
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And you're a timer gal.
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I love timer.
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So, like, I I kind of like this where it's like, I finally have a minute.
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Totally.
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I'm gonna like mentally empty out my garbage.
00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:45.200
And I think too, with so much going on and we are so scheduled, timers always help me focus when I need to focus.
00:15:45.440 --> 00:15:45.679
Right.
00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:50.799
It helps me not be like, oh, I have to look at the clock every five minutes because I don't know when 15 minutes is, right?
00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:51.600
Right.
00:15:51.919 --> 00:15:52.639
This is key.
00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:59.600
And the other reason that I bring this up too about is like, I have a girlfriend who gives herself a day to wallow.
00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:04.879
Oh, and this reminds me of this where it's like, give yourself permission, give yourself time.
00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:08.480
It's not healthy either to say, just like, don't think about it, don't think about it.
00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:10.320
Cause then you think about it more.
00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:12.720
I also think we are conditioned that way, right?
00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:18.480
So give yourself that worry window to say, I can worry about this, but guess what?
00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:20.639
Don't let it stunt your day, right?
00:16:20.799 --> 00:16:29.279
Don't let it inhibit you from giving out their exercising, doing positive things because it can literally make you just want to sit on a couch and feel sorry for yourself.
00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:30.000
Exactly.
00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:33.759
And um, yeah, I just think that's really important.
00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:34.480
I love that.
00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:37.120
I I think it's really important if you just need to get it out.
00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:52.399
I also think in that worry window for people who like to journal and stuff, I think writing things down, something about getting it out of our heads on paper that says, you know, I can't believe I did XYZ.
00:16:52.559 --> 00:16:54.960
And then you're like, oh well, I can believe it.
00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:58.000
And then, you know, like you get it somewhere else out of your head.
00:16:58.159 --> 00:16:58.559
I don't know.
00:16:58.639 --> 00:17:00.240
I think there's some some power in that too.
00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:08.400
And I think sometimes I'll a lot of the things I think, and I don't know if this is just lately or if this has been my whole life, I forget so quickly.
00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:09.279
Yeah, moving on.
00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:19.440
To be able to come back though and really see how my thoughts were and be like, oh, you've grown from this, or this is really not that big of a deal is important too.
00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:20.240
I love it.
00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:23.759
So the next, the next tip, so tip one, worry window.
00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:24.400
Worry window.
00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:27.839
Make the time, worry your hearts out, get it all out there.
00:17:28.079 --> 00:17:31.519
The next one is shifting our thinking into why to how.
00:17:31.759 --> 00:17:36.480
This one is so cool because why is a victim mindset.
00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:38.559
Why did this happen to me?
00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:40.960
Why do I keep doing this?
00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:43.359
And it's very self-persecuting.
00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:45.200
And it's like, why me, why me?
00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:47.279
Does anyone really like to be why me?
00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:47.519
No.
00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:49.599
I mean, like that's kind of sad, you know?
00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:50.720
But we do it.
00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:53.119
So instead, change it to how.
00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:56.640
So this is about taking something that feels very like reactive.
00:17:56.880 --> 00:17:58.720
I'm feeling bad about myself, why me?
00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:02.799
Whoa, whoa, whoa, into how can I handle this better next time?
00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:03.599
I love that.
00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:06.160
And and I love this because you can't change the past.
00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:06.640
Nope.
00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:09.920
But you can then commit to yourself how you're going to move forward in the future.
00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:21.200
So instead of shifting your brain into this why, why, why abstract, because by the way, I don't know about you, but when our little kids ask us why, why, why, you get to a point that you literally say, I don't know why.
00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:24.079
And the answer typically is I don't know why.
00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:26.880
Oh, maybe I was hungry and I just said something bad.
00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:29.200
Like maybe there's an answer, but not all the time.
00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:33.039
So instead, turning it into how that's like tangible.
00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:35.359
We can be thoughtful, we can make a plan.
00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:36.799
And you're trying to better yourself, right?
00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:37.279
Totally.
00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:38.720
And that goes back to what you're saying in the beginning.
00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:41.359
Like, do we do this so that we don't do it again?
00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:41.839
Right.
00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:42.160
Right.
00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:42.559
Exactly.
00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:43.680
All ties together.
00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:47.759
All right, and tip three, we're calling this the circuit breaker.
00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:50.079
Shake stuff up.
00:18:50.319 --> 00:18:50.720
Yes.
00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:51.279
Okay.
00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:59.119
You there's so many techniques and just changing your scenery to get you out of that mindset.
00:18:59.359 --> 00:18:59.519
Right.
00:18:59.839 --> 00:19:00.720
Go to the go for a walk.
00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:01.279
Oh my god.
00:19:01.519 --> 00:19:02.400
Go water your garden.
00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:09.039
It is so important in every, anytime you feel overwhelmed or stressed, changing up that environment.
00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:13.279
I remember when I used to work from home.
00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:15.279
I'm like, I work from home.
00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:16.799
I sleep at home.
00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:18.640
I make dinner in my home.
00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:18.960
Yeah.
00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:20.400
I wasn't leaving my home.
00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:22.400
And I'm like, I gotta get out of here.
00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:22.799
Seriously.
00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:24.720
I'm like, I'm like, what?
00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:27.440
I leave to go to the grocery store for 20 minutes or whatever.
00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:36.160
Like, it is so important to be like, because I think you also start to associate spaces with your mindset.
00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:37.119
Yes.
00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:39.440
You need to break that apart.
00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:39.839
Yes.
00:19:40.079 --> 00:19:44.559
You need to take some deep breaths, something to distract you, something to put on a song.
00:19:44.640 --> 00:19:47.039
We talk about music, how important that is.
00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:48.400
That is a huge one.
00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:57.519
Break your environment physically, emotionally, with a stimulant that changes your brain waves.
00:19:57.759 --> 00:19:58.319
I love it.
00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:09.759
And and what I just was thinking about in here was something that is energizing, like moving the energy, you know, sitting on the same couch, you're gonna feel those same feelings.
00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:12.799
So it's like even just stand up and move rooms.
00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:16.880
If you're ruminating in the middle of the night, I'm I'm guessing, I don't know why I had I just thought of this.
00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:18.960
Maybe this is where the midnight snack comes from.
00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:23.200
People are like, I need a peanut butter jelly sandwich all of a sudden at 12:30 in the morning.
00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:24.880
You know, but like think about it.
00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:27.200
Then you're getting like a little tree dopamine.
00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:36.000
I mean, they're not gonna encourage middle of the night eating, but like if you're really having a difficult time sitting in your bed mentally trapped, yeah, like don't stay there.
00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:37.599
No, I think that's wonderful.
00:20:37.839 --> 00:20:38.400
Totally.
00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:47.119
Um, so I guess the thing about this is that breaking this habit is not gonna be a perfect thing for either of us.
00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:54.799
No, I would say we both identified that maybe we've gotten better at this, maybe more self-forgiving or quicker to move on over the years.
00:20:55.039 --> 00:20:56.480
It's gonna be incremental.
00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:03.200
So if you are out there listening and you're like, oh my gosh, I'm the worst ruminator and I don't know why I do it, and I can't stand this about myself.
00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:07.680
Have grace, but also like think about the tips that we shared and maybe pick one.
00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:09.119
Totally pick one and to try.
00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:11.200
We're always strapped for time.
00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:15.039
Do we want to waste that time not being present?
00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:16.480
Because I think that's what happens.
00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:24.079
Like you said, we're either stuck in the past ruminating or we're stuck in the future planning, catastrophizing, and catastrophizing.
00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:30.160
And we'll talk about that in the next episode, I think, about catastrophizing, because I think we both have a tendency to do that.
00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:31.759
Maybe one of us more than the other.
00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:32.720
Maybe, maybe not.
00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:44.079
Um, but I think the coolest thing too is that once you start to change and how you are having grace with yourself, you can affect people around you, your spouses, your friends.
00:21:44.319 --> 00:21:47.200
You can be very like, oh, I know how you feel.
00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:52.319
It invokes empathy, you know, and it creates space for you to say, like, don't worry about that.
00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:53.039
Let it go.
00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:54.880
Oh my gosh, you're such an incredible person.
00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:55.440
So what?
00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:57.119
You said the wrong thing, move on.
00:21:57.359 --> 00:21:59.839
That doesn't change the fact that you're a wonderful person.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:08.720
So that whole ripple effect, I think, is really cool too, because we all deserve somebody egging us on and forgiving our us when sometimes we can't forgive ourselves.
00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:13.039
Totally, you know, stop the rumination, yeah, start the growth.
00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:13.519
I don't know.
00:22:13.759 --> 00:22:17.039
Yeah, stop the rumination, get up and keep living.
00:22:17.279 --> 00:22:17.599
Seriously.
00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:19.839
Because at the end of the day, and and get some damn sleep.
00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:21.279
I think that's the other thing, too.
00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:22.880
So if someone knows how, tell me.
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:29.519
There's one little quote that I thought was kind of cute as I was planning this episode.
00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:33.119
Uh it said, Your thoughts are a neighborhood you visit.
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:35.839
It is not the house that you have to live in.
00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:36.720
You know?
00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:41.200
So I love that because it's like, okay, I'm just visiting this thought.
00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:42.720
Like these thoughts are not me.
00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:44.559
Let's not have them become us.
00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:48.880
And instead, let's just have it, you know, just stop by in a little neighborhood.
00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:50.400
Your visit is only 15 minutes.
00:22:50.559 --> 00:22:53.759
Yep, and then the worry window, and then we're moving on, and then get that snack.
00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:54.079
Yes.
00:22:54.240 --> 00:22:54.720
Oh my gosh.
00:22:54.799 --> 00:22:55.440
Well, I loved this.
00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:59.039
I think it was very helpful at least just just to talk about that.
00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:00.559
Everybody does this.
00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:01.440
Yes, we think.
00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:05.920
If you're not, let us know because you we're not worthy.
00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:21.920
Um but to do to relate, I think, especially in this time of our lives when we are perfectionists and we do take things to heart, to you know, they kind of affect sometimes how we also function.
00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:23.359
Yeah, it's good to share that.
00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:24.559
Hey, this happens.
00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:26.640
Yeah, nobody's perfect.
00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:27.440
But guess what?
00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:28.640
You gotta snap out of it.
00:23:28.799 --> 00:23:29.119
Yeah.
00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:32.079
I think that's really beautifully put.
00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:32.799
Beautiful.
00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:36.960
And remember, everybody, after every breakdown, don't forget the bubbles.
00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:43.680
Well, if you're loving us, please follow us on all the socials, Instagram, send us a DM to tell us how much you love us.
00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:47.920
Listen to us on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:49.039
And we'll see you next time.
00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:50.079
And don't ruminate.
00:23:50.559 --> 00:23:51.279
Cheers, everybody.
00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:52.000
Bye.
00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:21.120
Hello and welcome to Bubbles and Breakdowns, a space designed for you to show up as your beautifully imperfect self where we dive into the good, the bad, and the bubbly.
00:00:21.199 --> 00:00:21.839
I'm Ashley.
00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:23.359
And I'm Katrina.
00:00:23.839 --> 00:00:33.359
Ashley, do you ever find yourself trapped in an endless loop of replaying maybe an old argument or obsessing over a worst-case scenario, maybe?
00:00:33.600 --> 00:00:34.719
Only every day of my life.
00:00:34.960 --> 00:00:39.920
Well, in this episode, bubbles and breakdowns, we're talking about stress-inducing rumination.
00:00:40.159 --> 00:00:47.200
We're going to take a look at why maybe our brains get stuck in that loop and on these exhausting mental tracks.
00:00:47.439 --> 00:00:52.079
And often rumination can just stem from this misguided survival mechanism.
00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:53.679
I think this is really interesting.
00:00:54.240 --> 00:00:56.799
And it's triggering a chronic stress within our bodies.
00:00:56.880 --> 00:00:58.479
So it's like, stop.
00:00:59.039 --> 00:00:59.280
Stop.
00:00:59.439 --> 00:01:01.280
But we're going to dive into how do you stop?
00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:05.840
What are the strategies to help break the cycle and manage our thoughts?
00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:09.439
So it's not just about achieving a perfect quiet mind overnight.
00:01:09.519 --> 00:01:17.040
It's going to be little steps, but of empowering us with an act to reclaim our mental energy, our time, and our peace.
00:01:17.359 --> 00:01:24.879
So let's discover how stepping away from that loop can open up the door, hopefully, to a calmer, more intentional life.
00:01:25.439 --> 00:01:26.000
And you know what?
00:01:26.079 --> 00:01:27.040
That sounds pretty great to me.
00:01:27.280 --> 00:01:27.599
Same.
00:01:27.920 --> 00:01:34.319
Okay, if you have never ruminated in your life, I feel like you're lucky.
00:01:34.480 --> 00:01:35.599
You're so lucky.
00:01:35.760 --> 00:01:36.079
Yeah.
00:01:36.239 --> 00:01:43.840
And you probably just don't give an S H I T because this is something I feel like that has plagued me for a very, very long time.
00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:47.040
So maybe let's start with like, what is rumination, right?
00:01:47.519 --> 00:01:58.959
So it's really just thinking, pondering, obsessing over the same thought over and over and over and over when you're not really discovering what a resolution for that is.
00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:00.640
And it's something that's happened in the past.
00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:00.959
Yes.
00:02:01.120 --> 00:02:03.680
Like replaying, replaying.
00:02:03.760 --> 00:02:08.080
It could be something that happened the same day, yesterday, five years ago.
00:02:08.240 --> 00:02:08.479
Yep.
00:02:08.719 --> 00:02:11.039
But just something that really, and it can happen anytime.
00:02:11.120 --> 00:02:13.680
I feel like sometimes it happens to me when I'm trying to go to bed.
00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:14.240
Yes.
00:02:14.400 --> 00:02:17.039
Sometimes it happens to me in the pickup line at school.
00:02:17.199 --> 00:02:24.240
Like it's just and part of it too, the things that I ruminate on, you tell me the same.
00:02:24.479 --> 00:02:27.919
Is usually when it's something that I think I did wrong.
00:02:28.159 --> 00:02:29.039
A hundred percent.
00:02:29.280 --> 00:02:33.039
Or I did, or I feel is this person mad at me?
00:02:33.120 --> 00:02:33.280
Yes.
00:02:33.520 --> 00:02:40.639
And I think getting older, I tend to ruminate less because I think I I I'm starting to not care.
00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:46.080
But the things that I care about, it's just like, no, no, no, this person doesn't know me that well.
00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:46.960
They're not trying to.
00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:47.520
Yes.
00:02:47.680 --> 00:02:51.280
And maybe, you know, I'm assuming they're thinking one thing.
00:02:51.680 --> 00:02:58.960
Half the time, if I if if this obsesses my thoughts enough and I talk to someone about it, they're like, I don't even know what you're talking about.
00:02:59.120 --> 00:02:59.199
Right.
00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:08.000
And you're like, oh my God, I spent so much time obsessing or ruminating over this fact when I'm in the clear.
00:03:08.240 --> 00:03:22.159
So it's so interesting because what you just described, number one, couldn't relate more, which is it's replaying what we did, but usually it's replaying what we did and how it affects other people or what they think about us or how they feel about us.
00:03:22.319 --> 00:03:23.360
Are they still our friend?
00:03:23.520 --> 00:03:24.240
Da-da-da-da.
00:03:24.479 --> 00:03:27.520
Am I, did I just have a career-limiting move at work?
00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:29.520
Am I ruining my reputation?
00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:34.240
It's all of this like self-doubt and when you're highly critical.
00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:40.159
Highly critical and and writing narratives about what the other person, oh, they think I'm a total idiot now.
00:03:40.319 --> 00:03:47.919
I can't do my job, or that I don't care about them because I've snapped at them when I was PMSing, or it can be so many, so many different things.
00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:49.759
And here's the crazy part.
00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:56.479
When I was looking into this, about okay, to I've known rumination is a problem for myself or my husband for many, many years.
00:03:56.560 --> 00:03:56.960
Right.
00:03:57.120 --> 00:04:04.639
It's that our brains mistake it for solutioning by thinking through it.
00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:13.199
Our brains are going, okay, if I think about this enough, it's gonna fix itself, or I'm gonna think through it enough that it's gonna like solve the problem, but it's not.
00:04:16.399 --> 00:04:18.879
It's like your brain, your brain can't reconcile.
00:04:18.959 --> 00:04:22.720
And so your brain is trying to make sense of it, it's trying to fix it.
00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:27.040
And the fact of the matter about rumination, it's like spoiler alert, it's in the past.
00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:28.240
You can't change it.
00:04:28.560 --> 00:04:29.120
Done and done.
00:04:29.279 --> 00:04:30.240
It's done and done.
00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:37.120
And so there's people who I think start to really work on this rumination, and then they'll say, okay, what's done is done.
00:04:37.199 --> 00:04:37.920
I'm gonna move on.
00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:41.519
And then there's other people that ruminate a lot longer, right?
00:04:41.600 --> 00:04:50.480
And and so when we look at this, that problem-solving illusion, like our brains think they're fixing something, they're actually just exhausting us.
00:04:50.720 --> 00:04:57.439
Our brain is just exhausting us, stealing resources, sleep, like you said, like, oh, it's one o'clock in the morning.
00:04:57.519 --> 00:05:00.240
What a perfect time to replay the last three years of events.
00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:03.360
It's rumination time, rumination hour.
00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:04.319
Let's do this.
00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:10.720
I think the other thing that I do too is at this time of night, sometimes you we get intrusive thoughts.
00:05:10.959 --> 00:05:12.639
And I feel like they're linked, right?
00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:17.519
So, like, intrusive thoughts are just things that are scenarios maybe that could never happen.
00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:18.720
Maybe could happen.
00:05:18.959 --> 00:05:19.439
Maybe could.
00:05:19.519 --> 00:05:25.439
And but it's just more that again, I think it's something for me that like scares me.
00:05:25.519 --> 00:05:27.199
So I'll think about going on a vacation.
00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:28.000
Are we gonna be safe?
00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:28.879
Is the you know what I mean?
00:05:29.199 --> 00:05:31.360
And that's anxiety because that's actually in the future.
00:05:31.519 --> 00:05:31.680
Yeah.
00:05:31.839 --> 00:05:36.560
So like rumination is the past, and anxiety is the future, and all of it is bad.
00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:37.680
All of it, you know.
00:05:37.839 --> 00:05:44.000
So, like, when we think about examples of things we ruminate out, where you you said some of them in the beginning.
00:05:44.079 --> 00:06:13.199
I'll share one, and then I'm interested to know, you know, my a consistent one for me is that I say something in a meeting, and you can always tell when you say something in a meeting, when either people like pick up the thing and they go with it, and then they like reinforce it through continuing to talk about it, or it wasn't a good thing to say, and no one agrees with you when they literally change the subject or they talk about something completely different.
00:06:13.839 --> 00:06:22.720
And moments in the past where this the latter has happened where they're like, and whatever Katrina said made no sense, and then they like want to move on.
00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:26.000
Um, I'm always like, Am I alone?
00:06:26.160 --> 00:06:28.879
Like the I start to think, like, am I alone on this?
00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:30.959
Like, did I say it wrong?
00:06:31.120 --> 00:06:36.079
Because, you know, and what that does for me, Ashley, is it triggers this like, is my thinking broken?
00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:40.560
Like, is my critical eye and my critical brain not working correctly?
00:06:40.800 --> 00:06:43.040
Those are the types of thoughts I start having.
00:06:43.279 --> 00:06:50.480
And it never is about, oh, maybe, like the flip side is that that other person really just wanted to get their point across.
00:06:50.639 --> 00:06:50.800
Right.
00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:53.040
I don't ever write that narrative, you know?
00:06:53.199 --> 00:06:58.879
And so instead, it's like all of this spotlight and this magnifying glass goes back on ourselves.
00:06:59.199 --> 00:07:13.360
And that's the worst part about rumination, is because you literally, when you're ruminating, you are worst-case scenario for whatever you don't know how people felt, you don't know how they're reacting to you, and you are thinking the worst for sure.
00:07:13.439 --> 00:07:30.639
Well, and I feel like a lot of times too, I've done that when I was in the working world, but it was like if I made a misstep, or if I got, I'll get this to you by end of day, and then you wake up and you're like, oh my gosh, I did not get that email out, or just because we we are overloaded with so so much.
00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:31.040
Right.
00:07:31.279 --> 00:07:39.360
And I think it comes into this like not facade, but like of who we think we are on the outside.
00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:46.319
Whenever that gets hurt, affected, trampled on, we're gonna worry.
00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:48.319
And I I don't know, I I'm so curious.
00:07:48.399 --> 00:07:50.160
Like, is this a type A person thing?
00:07:50.720 --> 00:07:51.279
You know what?
00:07:51.439 --> 00:08:01.279
I I think it is type A perfectionism masquerading as for some reason, we just think it's like I don't know, fruitful.
00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:01.839
Right.
00:08:02.079 --> 00:08:10.319
You know, and I do think there is some rumination we're not solutioning, you're not solutioning, but also it's like you can't solution maybe with your thoughts.
00:08:10.399 --> 00:08:18.000
I mean, yes, I think you can arrive to a point where you have to think through something and then you have to go, this isn't, I'm not, I can't fix this without a third party.
00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:18.399
Right.
00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:21.600
Or I can't fix this, period.
00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:27.439
And if you're not getting to those places, then you're just playing it over and over and over.
00:08:27.680 --> 00:08:32.159
And and I think to that point, Ashley, it's like kind of addictive.
00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:32.639
Yes.
00:08:32.960 --> 00:08:47.440
Because you're like, if I think about this long enough, if I feel bad about this long enough, if I try to reconcile this long enough, then it's gonna make the importance that like shows that I care and that I'm a good person and I'm gonna let this bother me because I'm a good person, kind of thing.
00:08:51.679 --> 00:08:54.399
All maybe we're trying to save ourselves from doing that again.
00:08:54.559 --> 00:08:54.799
Yeah.
00:08:55.039 --> 00:08:57.840
Because we know how it makes us feel.
00:08:58.000 --> 00:08:58.240
Yeah.
00:08:58.399 --> 00:09:04.399
So we're kind of like, okay, I'm I'm gonna think this through to say, how could I have done this different next time?
00:09:04.559 --> 00:09:09.120
And a lot of the times it's stuff that doesn't affect you surviving on this planet.
00:09:09.200 --> 00:09:09.600
Yes.
00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:10.080
Right?
00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:12.159
It is at least because we're lucky, right?
00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:13.519
We've got shelter, we've got food.
00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:16.799
So, like, back thinking of like, how are we gonna survive, right?
00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:19.759
This is more ourself.
00:09:20.159 --> 00:09:21.759
Yes, and how we're perceived.
00:09:21.919 --> 00:09:23.440
And how we're perceived.
00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:27.039
And maybe we're just like, I don't want to get here again.
00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:28.559
So let me think about this.
00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:29.120
Yeah.
00:09:29.360 --> 00:09:32.080
It's almost like the degree at 3 a.m.
00:09:32.720 --> 00:09:36.320
to figure out how I can better present myself.
00:09:36.559 --> 00:09:37.440
I love that theory.
00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:40.720
I mean, I bet there's some psychologists out there that could like reinforce.
00:09:40.799 --> 00:09:46.799
I mean, it makes sense to me because you're kind of like, I don't know, waterboarding yourself of being like, don't ever do that again.
00:09:46.879 --> 00:09:50.159
Don't put your foot in your mouth like that again, or ooh, really touchy subject.
00:09:50.240 --> 00:09:51.440
Don't bring that up with your friend again.
00:09:51.519 --> 00:09:54.480
You saw how they reacted, like fill in the blank.
00:09:54.639 --> 00:09:59.360
But the other thing I would say is yes, there's maybe a positive there with what you just said.
00:09:59.519 --> 00:10:01.279
Like maybe it helps us be better people.
00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:03.440
It doesn't feel positive, but I'm just saying maybe.
00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:16.480
But maybe, but but then also I do think there is something to that because if you've ever done something that you have regret or you feel bad about, I, for one, will literally say in my head, oh, I never want to do that again.
00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:18.879
I never want to feel like this again.
00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:19.279
Yes.
00:10:19.519 --> 00:10:22.399
And I think that that is also a way to like stop the rumination.
00:10:22.559 --> 00:10:22.879
Totally.
00:10:23.039 --> 00:10:24.000
Okay, lesson learned.
00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:25.440
I don't want to ever do that again.
00:10:25.519 --> 00:10:26.799
Yeah, I don't want to feel like this.
00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:31.360
But what I'll say is like the stress-inducing part of it is huge.
00:10:31.600 --> 00:10:32.000
Huge.
00:10:32.240 --> 00:10:35.440
Because when you're ruminating, I I'll share some of my ticks.
00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:35.759
Yeah.
00:10:35.919 --> 00:10:37.039
I don't know how you operate.
00:10:37.120 --> 00:10:39.679
Some people get tight shoulders, headaches, like da-da-da-da.
00:10:40.399 --> 00:10:41.840
I pick my cuticles.
00:10:42.080 --> 00:10:44.080
Oh, I am anxiety and rumination.
00:10:44.320 --> 00:10:45.360
For some reason, I'm picking them right now.
00:10:45.519 --> 00:10:46.399
Right, right, right, right.
00:10:46.639 --> 00:10:56.480
And I also do something that only one other friend of mine uh that I've known in my life also did, and we'd always joke with each other because we'd like to slap each other's hands away, bite the inside of my cheek.
00:10:57.279 --> 00:11:01.759
And like it's it's called stimming, it's like stimulation or whatever.
00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:06.480
But when we're having difficult thoughts, it's starting to physically manifest, is the point.
00:11:06.639 --> 00:11:11.440
It's coming up as tension, stimming, expressing in our physical bodies.
00:11:11.519 --> 00:11:13.440
And so it's not just thoughts, right?
00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:26.240
And I think that the coolest thing about healthcare and like clinical space right now is the most successful doctors are the ones who are living in the clinical world and the psychology world because brains and bodies are connected.
00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:31.200
They are and so this is why I'm like, okay, rumination, bad for you.
00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:33.279
What are some things that you feel in your body?
00:11:33.519 --> 00:11:35.679
Like when you are ruminating 100%.
00:11:36.080 --> 00:11:42.720
I feel like I am I've always been the tight shoulder person, like all the time.
00:11:42.799 --> 00:11:46.879
Like all my stress, all my tension is here, which leads to my TMJ.
00:11:47.039 --> 00:11:47.759
Oh, you have to do that.
00:11:47.919 --> 00:11:49.360
And I clench my teeth.
00:11:49.600 --> 00:11:50.080
You do.
00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:50.639
Yes.
00:11:50.879 --> 00:11:58.000
So it used to be worse in college, so it's gotten better, but I've always been a clencher, which then leads to headaches too.
00:11:58.159 --> 00:11:59.519
So it's all that stress.
00:11:59.679 --> 00:12:07.759
And now you can see why anytime your body is in this fight or flight stress mode, yeah, it's bad for you.
00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:08.480
So bad.
00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:09.200
You know what I mean?
00:12:09.279 --> 00:12:13.600
And I think there's some stimulation that like we can think about things, but like, how do we break this cycle?
00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:14.000
Right.
00:12:14.240 --> 00:12:15.360
How do we get out of this?
00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:18.399
Because it's not okay.
00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:19.519
No, I agree.
00:12:19.759 --> 00:12:27.360
You know, and I think there's things where it's like, I've like I've said, as I get older, I think I mentioned this every episode, I'm more confident in myself.
00:12:27.600 --> 00:12:27.919
Right.
00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:30.879
I think I've started to tend to ruminate a little less.
00:12:31.279 --> 00:12:35.200
But maybe my worries are becoming a little more frivolous, if that even makes sense.
00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:37.200
Well, and I think that's actually more healthy.
00:12:37.279 --> 00:12:37.440
Yeah.
00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:45.759
You know, like if they're lighter worries than they are these like catastrophic, self-deprecating, I'm never gonna have friends type of worries.
00:12:45.919 --> 00:12:47.759
Um yeah, that's so interesting.
00:12:47.919 --> 00:12:56.879
And I think when I when I was reflecting on rumination and the physical toll, I read this book years ago and I didn't even think of it until we were just chatting.
00:12:57.039 --> 00:12:58.960
It's called the telomere effect.
00:12:59.120 --> 00:13:05.519
So I'm gonna get like a little scholarly, a little science-y for all my for all my science nerds out there.
00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:09.120
So our little cells in our body have these little end caps on them.
00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:14.720
Think of a shoelace with a uh a plastic tube on the end of it to keep it from fraying, right?
00:13:14.879 --> 00:13:16.080
So our cells have these.
00:13:16.159 --> 00:13:17.679
They're called telomeres.
00:13:17.840 --> 00:13:21.600
And there's lots of things in our lives that can shorten the length of our telomeres.
00:13:21.679 --> 00:13:25.279
So you think about a shoelace when it gets worn out and those things break away.
00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:29.679
Think of your telomeres getting shorter and your cells dying, becoming senescent cells.
00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:39.039
So essentially, it can be bad food, you know, it can be lunch meat, it can be cigarettes, it can be alcohol, all those things.
00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:43.519
But one of the biggest is stress and particularly rumination.
00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:56.799
So in that book, Ashley, it was highlighting over replaying thoughts over and over, negative thoughts, ruminating, had a directly negative tie to the health and vitality of ourselves.
00:13:57.120 --> 00:13:58.080
We're killing ourselves.
00:13:58.240 --> 00:13:58.559
Yes.
00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:12.799
And this is where I'm like, this is why right now the importance of tying what we think and what we do in our bodies is so, so important because everyone maybe rolls their eyes when people say, We are our thoughts.
00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:15.440
But like, we are our thoughts.
00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:22.559
Like we literally have so much control over our physical body by what we think.
00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:27.279
And it's hard sometimes because you're like, Well, I can't control my thoughts.
00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:42.320
And it may feel that way, but it just takes a lot of diligence and a lot of like this whole topic of neuroplasticity of the younger you are, the easier it is to kind of like reframe the way you think, versus now when you get older, it does get harder.
00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:44.080
So you then have to be more intentional.
00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:59.120
So I think we've got some ideas that we looked into, and we could share, you know, how to start kind of like reprogramming rumination, particularly, and try to isolate it and contain it versus letting it creep into every night and keeping us up.
00:14:59.279 --> 00:14:59.679
Absolutely.
00:14:59.759 --> 00:15:11.200
And I think too, this some of these also work for not just ruminating things that are in your mind, but also for challenges that occur that are very real.
00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:17.840
So I think that's something to call out too, because this first one, I just think of one of my best girlfriends in the world.
00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:20.960
So this is this is tip one is the worry window.
00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:21.279
Okay.
00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:29.440
So give yourself permission to ruminate, to worry for 15 minutes a day at a specific time, set that timer, and then you're done.
00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:30.559
And you're a timer gal.
00:15:30.720 --> 00:15:31.200
I love timer.
00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:34.159
So, like, I I kind of like this where it's like, I finally have a minute.
00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:34.639
Totally.
00:15:34.799 --> 00:15:37.120
I'm gonna like mentally empty out my garbage.
00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:45.200
And I think too, with so much going on and we are so scheduled, timers always help me focus when I need to focus.
00:15:45.440 --> 00:15:45.679
Right.
00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:50.799
It helps me not be like, oh, I have to look at the clock every five minutes because I don't know when 15 minutes is, right?
00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:51.600
Right.
00:15:51.919 --> 00:15:52.639
This is key.
00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:59.600
And the other reason that I bring this up too about is like, I have a girlfriend who gives herself a day to wallow.
00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:04.879
Oh, and this reminds me of this where it's like, give yourself permission, give yourself time.
00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:08.480
It's not healthy either to say, just like, don't think about it, don't think about it.
00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:10.320
Cause then you think about it more.
00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:12.720
I also think we are conditioned that way, right?
00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:18.480
So give yourself that worry window to say, I can worry about this, but guess what?
00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:20.639
Don't let it stunt your day, right?
00:16:20.799 --> 00:16:29.279
Don't let it inhibit you from giving out their exercising, doing positive things because it can literally make you just want to sit on a couch and feel sorry for yourself.
00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:30.000
Exactly.
00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:33.759
And um, yeah, I just think that's really important.
00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:34.480
I love that.
00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:37.120
I I think it's really important if you just need to get it out.
00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:52.399
I also think in that worry window for people who like to journal and stuff, I think writing things down, something about getting it out of our heads on paper that says, you know, I can't believe I did XYZ.
00:16:52.559 --> 00:16:54.960
And then you're like, oh well, I can believe it.
00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:58.000
And then, you know, like you get it somewhere else out of your head.
00:16:58.159 --> 00:16:58.559
I don't know.
00:16:58.639 --> 00:17:00.240
I think there's some some power in that too.
00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:08.400
And I think sometimes I'll a lot of the things I think, and I don't know if this is just lately or if this has been my whole life, I forget so quickly.
00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:09.279
Yeah, moving on.
00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:19.440
To be able to come back though and really see how my thoughts were and be like, oh, you've grown from this, or this is really not that big of a deal is important too.
00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:20.240
I love it.
00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:23.759
So the next, the next tip, so tip one, worry window.
00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:24.400
Worry window.
00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:27.839
Make the time, worry your hearts out, get it all out there.
00:17:28.079 --> 00:17:31.519
The next one is shifting our thinking into why to how.
00:17:31.759 --> 00:17:36.480
This one is so cool because why is a victim mindset.
00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:38.559
Why did this happen to me?
00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:40.960
Why do I keep doing this?
00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:43.359
And it's very self-persecuting.
00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:45.200
And it's like, why me, why me?
00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:47.279
Does anyone really like to be why me?
00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:47.519
No.
00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:49.599
I mean, like that's kind of sad, you know?
00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:50.720
But we do it.
00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:53.119
So instead, change it to how.
00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:56.640
So this is about taking something that feels very like reactive.
00:17:56.880 --> 00:17:58.720
I'm feeling bad about myself, why me?
00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:02.799
Whoa, whoa, whoa, into how can I handle this better next time?
00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:03.599
I love that.
00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:06.160
And and I love this because you can't change the past.
00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:06.640
Nope.
00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:09.920
But you can then commit to yourself how you're going to move forward in the future.
00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:21.200
So instead of shifting your brain into this why, why, why abstract, because by the way, I don't know about you, but when our little kids ask us why, why, why, you get to a point that you literally say, I don't know why.
00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:24.079
And the answer typically is I don't know why.
00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:26.880
Oh, maybe I was hungry and I just said something bad.
00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:29.200
Like maybe there's an answer, but not all the time.
00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:33.039
So instead, turning it into how that's like tangible.
00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:35.359
We can be thoughtful, we can make a plan.
00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:36.799
And you're trying to better yourself, right?
00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:37.279
Totally.
00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:38.720
And that goes back to what you're saying in the beginning.
00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:41.359
Like, do we do this so that we don't do it again?
00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:41.839
Right.
00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:42.160
Right.
00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:42.559
Exactly.
00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:43.680
All ties together.
00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:47.759
All right, and tip three, we're calling this the circuit breaker.
00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:50.079
Shake stuff up.
00:18:50.319 --> 00:18:50.720
Yes.
00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:51.279
Okay.
00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:59.119
You there's so many techniques and just changing your scenery to get you out of that mindset.
00:18:59.359 --> 00:18:59.519
Right.
00:18:59.839 --> 00:19:00.720
Go to the go for a walk.
00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:01.279
Oh my god.
00:19:01.519 --> 00:19:02.400
Go water your garden.
00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:09.039
It is so important in every, anytime you feel overwhelmed or stressed, changing up that environment.
00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:13.279
I remember when I used to work from home.
00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:15.279
I'm like, I work from home.
00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:16.799
I sleep at home.
00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:18.640
I make dinner in my home.
00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:18.960
Yeah.
00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:20.400
I wasn't leaving my home.
00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:22.400
And I'm like, I gotta get out of here.
00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:22.799
Seriously.
00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:24.720
I'm like, I'm like, what?
00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:27.440
I leave to go to the grocery store for 20 minutes or whatever.
00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:36.160
Like, it is so important to be like, because I think you also start to associate spaces with your mindset.
00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:37.119
Yes.
00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:39.440
You need to break that apart.
00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:39.839
Yes.
00:19:40.079 --> 00:19:44.559
You need to take some deep breaths, something to distract you, something to put on a song.
00:19:44.640 --> 00:19:47.039
We talk about music, how important that is.
00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:48.400
That is a huge one.
00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:57.519
Break your environment physically, emotionally, with a stimulant that changes your brain waves.
00:19:57.759 --> 00:19:58.319
I love it.
00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:09.759
And and what I just was thinking about in here was something that is energizing, like moving the energy, you know, sitting on the same couch, you're gonna feel those same feelings.
00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:12.799
So it's like even just stand up and move rooms.
00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:16.880
If you're ruminating in the middle of the night, I'm I'm guessing, I don't know why I had I just thought of this.
00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:18.960
Maybe this is where the midnight snack comes from.
00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:23.200
People are like, I need a peanut butter jelly sandwich all of a sudden at 12:30 in the morning.
00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:24.880
You know, but like think about it.
00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:27.200
Then you're getting like a little tree dopamine.
00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:36.000
I mean, they're not gonna encourage middle of the night eating, but like if you're really having a difficult time sitting in your bed mentally trapped, yeah, like don't stay there.
00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:37.599
No, I think that's wonderful.
00:20:37.839 --> 00:20:38.400
Totally.
00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:47.119
Um, so I guess the thing about this is that breaking this habit is not gonna be a perfect thing for either of us.
00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:54.799
No, I would say we both identified that maybe we've gotten better at this, maybe more self-forgiving or quicker to move on over the years.
00:20:55.039 --> 00:20:56.480
It's gonna be incremental.
00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:03.200
So if you are out there listening and you're like, oh my gosh, I'm the worst ruminator and I don't know why I do it, and I can't stand this about myself.
00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:07.680
Have grace, but also like think about the tips that we shared and maybe pick one.
00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:09.119
Totally pick one and to try.
00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:11.200
We're always strapped for time.
00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:15.039
Do we want to waste that time not being present?
00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:16.480
Because I think that's what happens.
00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:24.079
Like you said, we're either stuck in the past ruminating or we're stuck in the future planning, catastrophizing, and catastrophizing.
00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:30.160
And we'll talk about that in the next episode, I think, about catastrophizing, because I think we both have a tendency to do that.
00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:31.759
Maybe one of us more than the other.
00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:32.720
Maybe, maybe not.
00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:44.079
Um, but I think the coolest thing too is that once you start to change and how you are having grace with yourself, you can affect people around you, your spouses, your friends.
00:21:44.319 --> 00:21:47.200
You can be very like, oh, I know how you feel.
00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:52.319
It invokes empathy, you know, and it creates space for you to say, like, don't worry about that.
00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:53.039
Let it go.
00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:54.880
Oh my gosh, you're such an incredible person.
00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:55.440
So what?
00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:57.119
You said the wrong thing, move on.
00:21:57.359 --> 00:21:59.839
That doesn't change the fact that you're a wonderful person.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:08.720
So that whole ripple effect, I think, is really cool too, because we all deserve somebody egging us on and forgiving our us when sometimes we can't forgive ourselves.
00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:13.039
Totally, you know, stop the rumination, yeah, start the growth.
00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:13.519
I don't know.
00:22:13.759 --> 00:22:17.039
Yeah, stop the rumination, get up and keep living.
00:22:17.279 --> 00:22:17.599
Seriously.
00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:19.839
Because at the end of the day, and and get some damn sleep.
00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:21.279
I think that's the other thing, too.
00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:22.880
So if someone knows how, tell me.
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:29.519
There's one little quote that I thought was kind of cute as I was planning this episode.
00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:33.119
Uh it said, Your thoughts are a neighborhood you visit.
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:35.839
It is not the house that you have to live in.
00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:36.720
You know?
00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:41.200
So I love that because it's like, okay, I'm just visiting this thought.
00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:42.720
Like these thoughts are not me.
00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:44.559
Let's not have them become us.
00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:48.880
And instead, let's just have it, you know, just stop by in a little neighborhood.
00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:50.400
Your visit is only 15 minutes.
00:22:50.559 --> 00:22:53.759
Yep, and then the worry window, and then we're moving on, and then get that snack.
00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:54.079
Yes.
00:22:54.240 --> 00:22:54.720
Oh my gosh.
00:22:54.799 --> 00:22:55.440
Well, I loved this.
00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:59.039
I think it was very helpful at least just just to talk about that.
00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:00.559
Everybody does this.
00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:01.440
Yes, we think.
00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:05.920
If you're not, let us know because you we're not worthy.
00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:21.920
Um but to do to relate, I think, especially in this time of our lives when we are perfectionists and we do take things to heart, to you know, they kind of affect sometimes how we also function.
00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:23.359
Yeah, it's good to share that.
00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:24.559
Hey, this happens.
00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:26.640
Yeah, nobody's perfect.
00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:27.440
But guess what?
00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:28.640
You gotta snap out of it.
00:23:28.799 --> 00:23:29.119
Yeah.
00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:32.079
I think that's really beautifully put.
00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:32.799
Beautiful.
00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:36.960
And remember, everybody, after every breakdown, don't forget the bubbles.
00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:43.680
Well, if you're loving us, please follow us on all the socials, Instagram, send us a DM to tell us how much you love us.
00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:47.920
Listen to us on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:49.039
And we'll see you next time.
00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:50.079
And don't ruminate.
00:23:50.559 --> 00:23:51.279
Cheers, everybody.
00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:52.000
Bye.
