WEBVTT
00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:03.359
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Boys in Boardrooms.
00:00:03.520 --> 00:00:11.759
I am your host, Andy Johnson, and today we're going to talk about that particular kind of high achiever who carries everyone.
00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:16.079
Chances are that you know this person, you may even be this person.
00:00:16.399 --> 00:00:31.280
The colleague who walks every direct report through every decision, the friend whose phone rings first when there's an issue, the partner who absorbs the household's emotional weight so that the people, the family around them don't have to feel theirs.
00:00:31.600 --> 00:00:39.439
This is that person who is always holding it together and who would tell you if asked that this is just who they are.
00:00:40.240 --> 00:00:43.600
I'm going to tell you something pretty directly today.
00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:46.719
That being this way is not kind.
00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:48.799
It's not generosity.
00:00:49.039 --> 00:00:51.039
It is emotional containment.
00:00:51.200 --> 00:00:56.320
And it is one of the most invisible forms of validation dependency that I know.
00:00:56.799 --> 00:00:58.079
I'm Andy Johnson.
00:00:58.240 --> 00:01:12.959
This is Boys and Boardrooms, a podcast about validation dependency, the quiet engine underneath high achievement that keeps capable people performing for approval in their careers and their relationships, the boys part and the boardrooms part.
00:01:13.120 --> 00:01:14.719
The same pattern runs both.
00:01:14.879 --> 00:01:16.959
So if you're new here, that's the frame.
00:01:17.280 --> 00:01:23.439
Today is about one of the quietest, most invisible forms that this validation dependency takes.
00:01:23.680 --> 00:01:26.159
And I want to repeat what I said earlier.
00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:28.799
Containment is not generosity.
00:01:28.959 --> 00:01:32.079
What it really is is something that requires looking in the mirror.
00:01:32.159 --> 00:01:33.120
It's identity work.
00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:36.560
Now, most of the high achievers that I work with carry someone.
00:01:36.799 --> 00:01:43.840
Sometimes it's a direct report, sometimes it's a partner, sometimes it's a boss or even a parent who never grew up emotionally.
00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:46.239
And sometimes it's all of them at once.
00:01:46.560 --> 00:01:51.680
And we have to start with a distinction because this episode will not work without it.
00:01:52.079 --> 00:01:54.319
Supporting someone is not a bad thing.
00:01:54.480 --> 00:01:56.640
Supporting someone comes from love.
00:01:57.040 --> 00:02:01.359
I am not against supporting others that you love within your life.
00:02:01.599 --> 00:02:05.200
However, containing them is something entirely different.
00:02:05.439 --> 00:02:13.599
Containing them comes from need, specifically your need to be the one holding it together, even if you can't initially see it that way.
00:02:14.319 --> 00:02:16.800
The diagnostic word here is should.
00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:22.560
When you hear yourself saying, I should be doing this for them, you are no longer supporting.
00:02:22.800 --> 00:02:24.319
You are containing.
00:02:24.639 --> 00:02:26.879
Watch that word the next time it shows up.
00:02:27.039 --> 00:02:29.759
It is honestly the cleanest tell that I know.
00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:33.840
And I call it containment because a container has limits.
00:02:34.159 --> 00:02:36.639
What goes in eventually overflows.
00:02:36.800 --> 00:02:38.479
And that is not a metaphor.
00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:42.240
It is what happens to people who run on this pattern long enough.
00:02:42.400 --> 00:02:44.319
They eventually overflow.
00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:48.159
I worked alongside a woman a few years ago.
00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:52.159
I'm going to keep her anonymous, but the story is hers.
00:02:52.479 --> 00:02:58.000
And the backstory here is that she was a leader that I wanted to emulate.
00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:01.280
People trusted her, and she was good at her job.
00:03:01.520 --> 00:03:06.080
And I'm going to use her story as my boardroom case for this episode.
00:03:06.319 --> 00:03:11.039
And I'm going to talk to you about how emotional containment played out for her.
00:03:11.280 --> 00:03:15.840
So she had a direct report who just couldn't quite get there on her own.
00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:19.840
The skill was there, but the confidence level just wasn't.
00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:24.560
This direct report needed constant sign-offs before deliverables went out.
00:03:24.800 --> 00:03:27.759
She needed walkthroughs before every executive meeting.
00:03:27.919 --> 00:03:32.479
And she would have emotional breakdowns when stress hit a certain threshold.
00:03:32.800 --> 00:03:36.000
And she would go to my colleague every single time about it.
00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:44.560
And my colleague, what happened was she started to carry about 25 to 30% of the work that should have been her direct reports.
00:03:44.800 --> 00:03:49.439
She was doing work that that direct report should have been doing at her level.
00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:51.840
But my colleague did this quietly.
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She did it without complaint.
00:03:53.919 --> 00:04:00.400
And ultimately, the reason that she did this is because deep down, she thinks that is what a good boss does.
00:04:01.039 --> 00:04:12.319
She thought she was being a good leader, but really what was happening was she was outsourcing her own self-worth to the question of whether her direct report could survive without her help.
00:04:13.199 --> 00:04:15.360
So what happened to my colleague?
00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:16.959
She burned out.
00:04:17.199 --> 00:04:22.560
Not the public kind, but that kind that colleagues notice before the person living it does.
00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:26.079
I'm sure you've all been there where you just know something is off.
00:04:26.240 --> 00:04:32.399
You can see it in their eyes, in the shrug of their shoulders, of them not being present in a room.
00:04:32.560 --> 00:04:33.839
This started to happen to her.
00:04:33.920 --> 00:04:36.959
And it was really upsetting, honestly, to see.
00:04:37.279 --> 00:04:40.240
Because she wasn't failing at being a leader.
00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:47.360
What she was ultimately doing was succeeding at being a container and it was depleting her because those are different jobs.
00:04:47.680 --> 00:04:49.600
So that is the boardroom version.
00:04:49.839 --> 00:04:54.079
The home version is ultimately the same engine in different clothes.
00:04:54.319 --> 00:05:02.720
I'm sure you can think of a time when you or someone you loved had to hold up a partner, had to hold up a parent.
00:05:02.959 --> 00:05:25.040
And not again because they needed your support desperately at the moment, but because that partner or that parent refused to hold up themselves, because that partner or parent consistently relied on you to do something that, as your partner or parent, they should be able to do for themselves, maybe with your support, but still be able to do it themselves.
00:05:25.279 --> 00:05:26.959
That's the distinction.
00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:38.959
So if you recognize yourself in what I just described, I'm going to give you the three questions that I use with my clients to figure out whether you are supporting someone or containing them.
00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:45.279
We're going to get a little bit more diagnostic here so you can apply this to your situation instead of just hearing the stories through it.
00:05:45.439 --> 00:05:47.680
So these are the three questions in order.
00:05:47.839 --> 00:05:51.120
And I'm going to be honest with you that they get harder as we go on.
00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:54.240
So we're going to start with question one.
00:05:55.120 --> 00:05:59.519
How does it feel in your body when this person comes to you for help?
00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:08.560
If you're feeling tension, if you're feeling excitement, the chances that your body knows what's going on before the mind admits it.
00:06:08.959 --> 00:06:10.160
So tension is a no.
00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:11.920
Excitement is a yes.
00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:13.279
Hold on to this.
00:06:14.160 --> 00:06:21.839
Number two, has the person processed before they got to you, or are they outsourcing the processing?
00:06:22.399 --> 00:06:25.199
And what does that mean by outsourcing the processing?
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The marker is going to be urgency here.
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Real support is requested.
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Real support is requested because the person who is going through something has already taken that time.
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They've sat with it.
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They have an opinion on it.
00:06:40.959 --> 00:06:43.279
They've molded over what their options are.
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And when they come to you, they say, hey, this is what I'm feeling.
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This is what I'm going through.
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Could you give me your opinion on this?
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I'm thinking maybe I should do A.
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Do you think I should do A?
00:06:55.360 --> 00:06:57.439
Or do you have a recommendation for B?
00:06:57.839 --> 00:07:01.199
On the flip side, containment is demanded.
00:07:01.439 --> 00:07:03.279
Oh my God, I need you right now.
00:07:03.439 --> 00:07:04.800
I can't do this on my own.
00:07:04.959 --> 00:07:07.920
I'm hoping that you have the answer for me.
00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:16.319
These are some differences between, again, them doing their own processing or trying to outsource their processing to you.
00:07:16.959 --> 00:07:22.160
And number three, what does it say about you if you don't do this for them?
00:07:23.040 --> 00:07:29.839
That last question is really the kicker because the first two questions are mechanics.
00:07:30.319 --> 00:07:39.839
You can start to identify why this person is coming to you, whether to be the container, or because they really just need your support in that moment.
00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:43.600
But the third one is where that validation dependency lives.
00:07:43.759 --> 00:07:52.240
So if the answer to number three is I'd be a bad boss, or I'd be a bad partner, or I wouldn't be enough, that's the pattern.
00:07:52.399 --> 00:07:53.519
That's the engine.
00:07:53.759 --> 00:07:59.199
The three questions don't fix anything here, but they definitely show you what's running beneath.
00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:05.600
Now, containment is one of the most invisible forms of validation dependency because it looks like virtue.
00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:14.720
The other forms, like we talked about during episode one, needing the partner, needing the promotion, they at least feel like wanting something, right?
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Desire.
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Maybe it's not such a good thing.
00:08:17.519 --> 00:08:19.439
Where containment feels like giving.
00:08:19.600 --> 00:08:22.720
You're giving your time, you're giving your energy to someone.
00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:29.279
And that's what makes it so durable, so invisible, because you can run on it for decades and never notice.
00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:38.159
But I'm going to tell you today that you are not a better partner, leader, or friend for doing the work for someone else, for containing them.
00:08:38.399 --> 00:08:40.320
You are just a more depleted one.
00:08:40.480 --> 00:08:43.120
And one more thing before we close here.
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I am not coaching you from outside this pattern.
00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:54.559
I have had to walk out of containment with people that I love more than once, most recently, very recently, actually.
00:08:54.799 --> 00:08:57.840
And setting that boundary was very painful.
00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:01.360
It changed the dynamic of a relationship that mattered to me.
00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:03.360
And it was still the right thing.
00:09:03.679 --> 00:09:08.559
Because at the end of the day, walking out of containment costs you something, yes.
00:09:08.879 --> 00:09:12.000
But staying in it is going to cost you something more.
00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:13.840
That was the case for me.
00:09:14.320 --> 00:09:17.919
So once you can see this pattern, you can interrupt it.
00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:20.320
And that's the whole project of this show.
00:09:20.480 --> 00:09:25.840
And it's also the work that I am still doing in my own life because everything is a journey here.
00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:43.759
So if you've heard yourself in any part of this today, the colleague you carry, the friend whose calls you cannot ignore, the partner whose emotional weather sets the temperature in your house, that is validation dependency in one of its quietest forms.
00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:47.919
Again, it's not generosity, it's not character, it's a pattern.
00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:51.759
And patterns can be named, mapped, and interrupted.
00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:57.200
Now, if you're looking to explore this pattern a little bit more in your life, I have a validation pattern quiz.
00:09:57.279 --> 00:10:00.639
And it's where you can start to see where this lives, how it shows up for you.
00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:04.879
That link is in my Instagram bio that's at advance with Andy.
00:10:04.960 --> 00:10:08.080
And this is also where you can follow along and connect with me directly.
00:10:08.240 --> 00:10:12.960
So as I mentioned during episode one, we will also have guests on these episodes.
00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:18.960
Someone who built a career on being the one who held it together, for example, until that pattern broke them open.
00:10:19.200 --> 00:10:20.559
These stories are the data.
00:10:20.639 --> 00:10:26.720
This is where we get to see the patterns and examine them and figure out how to work our way to the other side.
00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:30.799
So if that's you and you have a story to share, I would love to hear it.
00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:33.200
Send me a DM on Ad Advance with Andy.
00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:38.879
And as for the rest of you, I will see you on the next episode of Boys in Boardrooms.
00:10:38.960 --> 00:10:39.679
Thanks for tuning in.
00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:03.359
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Boys in Boardrooms.
00:00:03.520 --> 00:00:11.759
I am your host, Andy Johnson, and today we're going to talk about that particular kind of high achiever who carries everyone.
00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:16.079
Chances are that you know this person, you may even be this person.
00:00:16.399 --> 00:00:31.280
The colleague who walks every direct report through every decision, the friend whose phone rings first when there's an issue, the partner who absorbs the household's emotional weight so that the people, the family around them don't have to feel theirs.
00:00:31.600 --> 00:00:39.439
This is that person who is always holding it together and who would tell you if asked that this is just who they are.
00:00:40.240 --> 00:00:43.600
I'm going to tell you something pretty directly today.
00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:46.719
That being this way is not kind.
00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:48.799
It's not generosity.
00:00:49.039 --> 00:00:51.039
It is emotional containment.
00:00:51.200 --> 00:00:56.320
And it is one of the most invisible forms of validation dependency that I know.
00:00:56.799 --> 00:00:58.079
I'm Andy Johnson.
00:00:58.240 --> 00:01:12.959
This is Boys and Boardrooms, a podcast about validation dependency, the quiet engine underneath high achievement that keeps capable people performing for approval in their careers and their relationships, the boys part and the boardrooms part.
00:01:13.120 --> 00:01:14.719
The same pattern runs both.
00:01:14.879 --> 00:01:16.959
So if you're new here, that's the frame.
00:01:17.280 --> 00:01:23.439
Today is about one of the quietest, most invisible forms that this validation dependency takes.
00:01:23.680 --> 00:01:26.159
And I want to repeat what I said earlier.
00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:28.799
Containment is not generosity.
00:01:28.959 --> 00:01:32.079
What it really is is something that requires looking in the mirror.
00:01:32.159 --> 00:01:33.120
It's identity work.
00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:36.560
Now, most of the high achievers that I work with carry someone.
00:01:36.799 --> 00:01:43.840
Sometimes it's a direct report, sometimes it's a partner, sometimes it's a boss or even a parent who never grew up emotionally.
00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:46.239
And sometimes it's all of them at once.
00:01:46.560 --> 00:01:51.680
And we have to start with a distinction because this episode will not work without it.
00:01:52.079 --> 00:01:54.319
Supporting someone is not a bad thing.
00:01:54.480 --> 00:01:56.640
Supporting someone comes from love.
00:01:57.040 --> 00:02:01.359
I am not against supporting others that you love within your life.
00:02:01.599 --> 00:02:05.200
However, containing them is something entirely different.
00:02:05.439 --> 00:02:13.599
Containing them comes from need, specifically your need to be the one holding it together, even if you can't initially see it that way.
00:02:14.319 --> 00:02:16.800
The diagnostic word here is should.
00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:22.560
When you hear yourself saying, I should be doing this for them, you are no longer supporting.
00:02:22.800 --> 00:02:24.319
You are containing.
00:02:24.639 --> 00:02:26.879
Watch that word the next time it shows up.
00:02:27.039 --> 00:02:29.759
It is honestly the cleanest tell that I know.
00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:33.840
And I call it containment because a container has limits.
00:02:34.159 --> 00:02:36.639
What goes in eventually overflows.
00:02:36.800 --> 00:02:38.479
And that is not a metaphor.
00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:42.240
It is what happens to people who run on this pattern long enough.
00:02:42.400 --> 00:02:44.319
They eventually overflow.
00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:48.159
I worked alongside a woman a few years ago.
00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:52.159
I'm going to keep her anonymous, but the story is hers.
00:02:52.479 --> 00:02:58.000
And the backstory here is that she was a leader that I wanted to emulate.
00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:01.280
People trusted her, and she was good at her job.
00:03:01.520 --> 00:03:06.080
And I'm going to use her story as my boardroom case for this episode.
00:03:06.319 --> 00:03:11.039
And I'm going to talk to you about how emotional containment played out for her.
00:03:11.280 --> 00:03:15.840
So she had a direct report who just couldn't quite get there on her own.
00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:19.840
The skill was there, but the confidence level just wasn't.
00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:24.560
This direct report needed constant sign-offs before deliverables went out.
00:03:24.800 --> 00:03:27.759
She needed walkthroughs before every executive meeting.
00:03:27.919 --> 00:03:32.479
And she would have emotional breakdowns when stress hit a certain threshold.
00:03:32.800 --> 00:03:36.000
And she would go to my colleague every single time about it.
00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:44.560
And my colleague, what happened was she started to carry about 25 to 30% of the work that should have been her direct reports.
00:03:44.800 --> 00:03:49.439
She was doing work that that direct report should have been doing at her level.
00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:51.840
But my colleague did this quietly.
00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:53.680
She did it without complaint.
00:03:53.919 --> 00:04:00.400
And ultimately, the reason that she did this is because deep down, she thinks that is what a good boss does.
00:04:01.039 --> 00:04:12.319
She thought she was being a good leader, but really what was happening was she was outsourcing her own self-worth to the question of whether her direct report could survive without her help.
00:04:13.199 --> 00:04:15.360
So what happened to my colleague?
00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:16.959
She burned out.
00:04:17.199 --> 00:04:22.560
Not the public kind, but that kind that colleagues notice before the person living it does.
00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:26.079
I'm sure you've all been there where you just know something is off.
00:04:26.240 --> 00:04:32.399
You can see it in their eyes, in the shrug of their shoulders, of them not being present in a room.
00:04:32.560 --> 00:04:33.839
This started to happen to her.
00:04:33.920 --> 00:04:36.959
And it was really upsetting, honestly, to see.
00:04:37.279 --> 00:04:40.240
Because she wasn't failing at being a leader.
00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:47.360
What she was ultimately doing was succeeding at being a container and it was depleting her because those are different jobs.
00:04:47.680 --> 00:04:49.600
So that is the boardroom version.
00:04:49.839 --> 00:04:54.079
The home version is ultimately the same engine in different clothes.
00:04:54.319 --> 00:05:02.720
I'm sure you can think of a time when you or someone you loved had to hold up a partner, had to hold up a parent.
00:05:02.959 --> 00:05:25.040
And not again because they needed your support desperately at the moment, but because that partner or that parent refused to hold up themselves, because that partner or parent consistently relied on you to do something that, as your partner or parent, they should be able to do for themselves, maybe with your support, but still be able to do it themselves.
00:05:25.279 --> 00:05:26.959
That's the distinction.
00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:38.959
So if you recognize yourself in what I just described, I'm going to give you the three questions that I use with my clients to figure out whether you are supporting someone or containing them.
00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:45.279
We're going to get a little bit more diagnostic here so you can apply this to your situation instead of just hearing the stories through it.
00:05:45.439 --> 00:05:47.680
So these are the three questions in order.
00:05:47.839 --> 00:05:51.120
And I'm going to be honest with you that they get harder as we go on.
00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:54.240
So we're going to start with question one.
00:05:55.120 --> 00:05:59.519
How does it feel in your body when this person comes to you for help?
00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:08.560
If you're feeling tension, if you're feeling excitement, the chances that your body knows what's going on before the mind admits it.
00:06:08.959 --> 00:06:10.160
So tension is a no.
00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:11.920
Excitement is a yes.
00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:13.279
Hold on to this.
00:06:14.160 --> 00:06:21.839
Number two, has the person processed before they got to you, or are they outsourcing the processing?
00:06:22.399 --> 00:06:25.199
And what does that mean by outsourcing the processing?
00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:28.480
The marker is going to be urgency here.
00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:30.959
Real support is requested.
00:06:31.199 --> 00:06:37.839
Real support is requested because the person who is going through something has already taken that time.
00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:39.199
They've sat with it.
00:06:39.279 --> 00:06:40.800
They have an opinion on it.
00:06:40.959 --> 00:06:43.279
They've molded over what their options are.
00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:46.879
And when they come to you, they say, hey, this is what I'm feeling.
00:06:46.959 --> 00:06:48.800
This is what I'm going through.
00:06:49.279 --> 00:06:51.439
Could you give me your opinion on this?
00:06:51.680 --> 00:06:53.600
I'm thinking maybe I should do A.
00:06:53.839 --> 00:06:55.279
Do you think I should do A?
00:06:55.360 --> 00:06:57.439
Or do you have a recommendation for B?
00:06:57.839 --> 00:07:01.199
On the flip side, containment is demanded.
00:07:01.439 --> 00:07:03.279
Oh my God, I need you right now.
00:07:03.439 --> 00:07:04.800
I can't do this on my own.
00:07:04.959 --> 00:07:07.920
I'm hoping that you have the answer for me.
00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:16.319
These are some differences between, again, them doing their own processing or trying to outsource their processing to you.
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And number three, what does it say about you if you don't do this for them?
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That last question is really the kicker because the first two questions are mechanics.
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You can start to identify why this person is coming to you, whether to be the container, or because they really just need your support in that moment.
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But the third one is where that validation dependency lives.
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So if the answer to number three is I'd be a bad boss, or I'd be a bad partner, or I wouldn't be enough, that's the pattern.
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That's the engine.
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The three questions don't fix anything here, but they definitely show you what's running beneath.
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Now, containment is one of the most invisible forms of validation dependency because it looks like virtue.
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The other forms, like we talked about during episode one, needing the partner, needing the promotion, they at least feel like wanting something, right?
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Desire.
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Maybe it's not such a good thing.
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Where containment feels like giving.
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You're giving your time, you're giving your energy to someone.
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And that's what makes it so durable, so invisible, because you can run on it for decades and never notice.
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But I'm going to tell you today that you are not a better partner, leader, or friend for doing the work for someone else, for containing them.
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You are just a more depleted one.
00:08:40.480 --> 00:08:43.120
And one more thing before we close here.
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I am not coaching you from outside this pattern.
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I have had to walk out of containment with people that I love more than once, most recently, very recently, actually.
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And setting that boundary was very painful.
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It changed the dynamic of a relationship that mattered to me.
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And it was still the right thing.
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Because at the end of the day, walking out of containment costs you something, yes.
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But staying in it is going to cost you something more.
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That was the case for me.
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So once you can see this pattern, you can interrupt it.
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And that's the whole project of this show.
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And it's also the work that I am still doing in my own life because everything is a journey here.
00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:43.759
So if you've heard yourself in any part of this today, the colleague you carry, the friend whose calls you cannot ignore, the partner whose emotional weather sets the temperature in your house, that is validation dependency in one of its quietest forms.
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Again, it's not generosity, it's not character, it's a pattern.
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And patterns can be named, mapped, and interrupted.
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Now, if you're looking to explore this pattern a little bit more in your life, I have a validation pattern quiz.
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And it's where you can start to see where this lives, how it shows up for you.
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That link is in my Instagram bio that's at advance with Andy.
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And this is also where you can follow along and connect with me directly.
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So as I mentioned during episode one, we will also have guests on these episodes.
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Someone who built a career on being the one who held it together, for example, until that pattern broke them open.
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These stories are the data.
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This is where we get to see the patterns and examine them and figure out how to work our way to the other side.
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So if that's you and you have a story to share, I would love to hear it.
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Send me a DM on Ad Advance with Andy.
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And as for the rest of you, I will see you on the next episode of Boys in Boardrooms.
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Thanks for tuning in.
