معلومات عن هذه الحلقة
We sit down with Patrick Lucas, founder and director of the Indigenous Youth Mountain Bike Program, to unpack how riding and trail building can become a doorway to confidence, health, and a renewed relationship with the land. What starts as kids building “stupid looking jumps” turns into something much larger: community-designed trails, youth skills training, and outdoor spaces that people actually use every day.
Patrick shares what he’s learned about consent and respect in outdoor recreation, plus the real-world partnership work that trail clubs can do when building on Indigenous territories. We explore surprising outcomes like women-led running groups becoming the biggest trail users, and how schools and community members use the same trails for language learning, harvesting, and wellness.
***********************************************
The Bike Sense podcast with Peter Ladner is produced by the BC Cycling Coalition – your voice for safer and more accessible cycling and active transportation in British Columbia. Membership in the BCCC is now FREE! The future of this podcast depends on people like you becoming members at BCCycling.ca. Please join us.
Got feedback or ideas for future episodes? Please drop us an email at admin@bccycling.ca.
Bike Sense podcast technical direction and production by Carmen Mills.
وتظهر الملاحظات 🔗
النص 🔗
00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:34.560
I hope you enjoy the show.
00:00:46.079 --> 00:00:50.159
All of us who bike revel in the benefits we so much love to talk about.
00:00:50.240 --> 00:00:54.880
It is fun, mentally healing, physically satisfying, often life-changing.
00:00:55.359 --> 00:01:03.600
Our guest today almost accidentally jumped into harnessing the benefits of cycling to change the lives of indigenous youth around BC.
00:01:04.239 --> 00:01:14.879
Their new journeys didn't just involve mountain biking, but also building trails, building self-confidence, and in some ways, transforming their communities and intercultural relationships.
00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:20.400
Patrick Lucas is the founder and director of the Indigenous Youth Mountain Bike Program.
00:01:20.799 --> 00:01:21.840
Welcome, Patrick.
00:01:22.319 --> 00:01:23.519
Hi, thanks for having me.
00:01:24.159 --> 00:01:27.120
Patrick, how would you describe yourself?
00:01:28.799 --> 00:01:38.319
Well, professionally, uh my background is I'm a community planner, and I've been working with indigenous communities now for uh about 18 years.
00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:44.239
Uh and I like to describe myself as an activist and a storyteller.
00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:48.879
Tell us a story about the last time you rode your bike.
00:01:49.840 --> 00:01:51.599
Well, it's been some time now.
00:01:51.680 --> 00:01:54.400
I I've been so busy over the last year or so.
00:01:54.560 --> 00:01:57.920
Um, so I haven't been able to ride as much as I would like.
00:01:58.159 --> 00:02:02.879
But I think the last really good time I had out on Mount Bike was uh last year.
00:02:03.040 --> 00:02:07.599
I was attending the opening for a new trail out in Hope called First Blood.
00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:10.800
It was built by uh my best friend and business partner, Thomas Schoen.
00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:19.599
Uh it was a great day of community coming together to celebrate a trail that uh they had built together and worked for many years to finish.
00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:24.159
Uh, and something that they did with the consent of the First Nations on whose land they were building.
00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:27.120
And I think that's something that makes for a very positive experience.
00:02:27.199 --> 00:02:32.879
So it was quite the day of riding every riding down the trail together and experiencing community in a really positive way.
00:02:33.120 --> 00:02:36.240
Was that part of the Indigenous Youth Mountain Bike Program?
00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:37.840
Not that project, no.
00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:45.039
Uh Thomas Schoen is has been my business partner for years, uh, but he built that trail through his company, First Journey Trails.
00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:51.919
Um, but we attended the opening uh and we're always happy to celebrate new trails as they're completed.
00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:57.199
Tell us about how you got started with Indigenous youth and biking.
00:02:57.759 --> 00:03:02.560
Well, I was working as a community planner with First Nations around the province.
00:03:02.719 --> 00:03:05.120
I've been doing that since about 2008.
00:03:05.680 --> 00:03:18.960
And it was kind of the classic uh situation where I'm non-Indigenous myself and I was being retained by the government through a company that I worked for that specialized in Indigenous community development.
00:03:19.039 --> 00:03:23.680
And I would find myself going into these small, remote communities around the province.
00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:33.840
Um, and even though I, you know, I had a fair amount of education, I didn't fully grasp or understand the challenges and the situations that they were dealing with.
00:03:34.159 --> 00:03:40.800
And for the most part, I struggled to make the connections and to help the communities move forward in a meaningful way.
00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:47.039
And I was sitting in one of the communities, a small cutmuk community in the Fraser Canyon called Boothroid Indian Band.
00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:48.639
That's how they refer to themselves.
00:03:48.800 --> 00:04:02.960
And they were talking about their kids and they were talking about how they were struggling with uh sedentary lifestyles and they're concerned about drugs and alcohol and getting in trouble with the law, and they were trying to brainstorm new ideas that get kids outdoors and being active.
00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:11.120
And I remember sitting there feeling this knot in my stomach that despite my years of education, my supposed expertise, I had nothing of value to offer them.
00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:18.240
And it was in that meeting that uh one of the elders leaned over to me and he said, Hey, what do you know about mountain bikes?
00:04:18.399 --> 00:04:22.160
And he asked me because I always showed up with a mountain bike on the back of my car.
00:04:22.240 --> 00:04:23.839
I would go for a ride after the meetings.
00:04:23.920 --> 00:04:25.759
It's kind of how I kept my sanity.
00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:30.000
And I remember saying, Well, I don't know, enough to keep both wheels down, I guess.
00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:32.000
And he said, Well, our kids are doing it.
00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:33.439
They're riding all over the community.
00:04:33.519 --> 00:04:38.639
We can't build a we can't leave a pile of dirt without them building some stupid looking jump out of it.
00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:44.000
They were taking uh boards from our fences and wood piles to build their tricks and their features.
00:04:44.160 --> 00:04:46.240
We want them to keep outdoors.
00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:48.319
We want to help them, we want to support them.
00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:49.680
Can you help us?
00:04:49.920 --> 00:04:51.439
And of course I said yes.
00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:59.040
Now, I didn't know anything about building trails or bike features at that time, but I reached out to people in the community.
00:04:59.199 --> 00:05:09.120
I I met a lovely gentleman by the name of Doug De Doug Detwiller, who runs the SPRA Kids program, which was a huge program for getting kids into mountain biking for many, many years.
00:05:09.360 --> 00:05:12.000
And we returned to the community and we worked with the kids.
00:05:12.240 --> 00:05:13.600
Of course, they wanted jumps.
00:05:13.759 --> 00:05:15.519
So we built them a little bike park.
00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:20.000
And it just completely transformed my relationship with the community at that time.
00:05:20.240 --> 00:05:22.959
So I formed the Indigenous Youth Mountain Bike Program.
00:05:23.120 --> 00:05:38.480
And the whole idea was that we were going to use bikes to connect with kids and communities and um, you know, support people getting out on the land and living healthy, active lives, and it blew up into something much bigger and much more meaningful than I could have possibly imagined.
00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:40.160
How big is it?
00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:47.040
But we've worked with uh about 40 different First Nations all over British Columbia and in Ontario.
00:05:47.279 --> 00:06:08.079
We've trained more than 500 youth to become trail builders, and we've built more than 200,000 meters of single-track mountain bike trails in those communities, supporting thousands of people to get outdoors and reconnect with the land to engage in outdoor recreation, uh, including hiking and dog walking and mountain biking.
00:06:08.240 --> 00:06:11.839
But probably our biggest user group is actually ladies' running clubs.
00:06:12.079 --> 00:06:13.040
How is that?
00:06:13.680 --> 00:06:16.720
Well, that's that's kind of an ongoing question.
00:06:16.800 --> 00:06:24.079
It was it was not something we expected, but a lot of the clubs that we uh or a lot of the first nations we work with, we would build these trails.
00:06:24.160 --> 00:06:31.839
And then for the most part, a lot of the first nature communities um women play a very central role in running the community and keeping things moving.
00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:36.399
And they started using the trails to get out and run during their lunch times.
00:06:36.639 --> 00:06:38.720
So we call them the running aunties.
00:06:38.800 --> 00:06:43.199
They usually have better names for themselves, like the Wolfpack Mama Running Club or what have you.
00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:48.079
But yeah, they became one of our biggest user groups uh in almost every community we work with.
00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:55.920
Uh, one of the things we love about the projects is we love returning to the communities and learning how they're using the trails in ways we never expected.
00:06:56.079 --> 00:07:05.519
Um, we always build the trails to be, you know, really good for mountain biking, but it's often like the schools start using them for language training and cultural revitalization.
00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:12.639
Uh, the community members use the trails to go out and access their berry patches and their medicines and to harvest cedar.
00:07:12.720 --> 00:07:16.480
Uh, and that's the kind of stuff that really keeps us excited and involved.
00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:22.240
So you started out with kids doing sort of stunts and tricks and having some fun in the backyard.
00:07:22.399 --> 00:07:29.439
And it sounds like you've turned this into a way to build multi-use paths in communities that didn't have them before.
00:07:29.759 --> 00:07:30.480
Uh exactly.
00:07:30.639 --> 00:07:43.600
I mean, the the key thing about this, I think the reason that we've experienced the success that we've had is we really listened, we learned to listen and respond to what the communities were telling us they wanted.
00:07:43.759 --> 00:07:46.399
You know, when I first started doing this, I had a vision in my head.
00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:52.480
We were going to create a mountain bike Shangri-La and we were going to bring all these people together and ride together on these trails.
00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:54.720
And we do get to do that, absolutely.
00:07:54.959 --> 00:08:06.720
Um, but what the communities ended up telling us is, you know, we want these trails because the reserve communities, and I say this without hyperbole, were designed as prisons.
00:08:07.040 --> 00:08:18.319
They were designed to keep people in and sever their relationship with the land to remove them as obstacles to uh development um and colonialization.
00:08:18.800 --> 00:08:24.319
So for them, they're like, we need to reconnect with the land, we need to reconnect our kids and our people with the land.
00:08:24.399 --> 00:08:29.199
So for them, rebuilding their ancient trail systems was a key part of that.
00:08:29.519 --> 00:08:41.840
And we responded to that need and we let go of our idea, our vision for this mountain bike Shangri-La, as I said, and that's where we really started to uh find success.
00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:48.480
And we end we still ended up building some absolutely brilliant and epic and gnarly mountain bike trails along the way.
00:09:01.039 --> 00:09:12.240
Well, speaking as somebody who at one time in my life, many years ago, supervised trail building in Garibaldi Park, there's something about trail building that's pretty special.
00:09:12.480 --> 00:09:24.799
People like to do it, they go out and do it on their own, and the province is just introducing some active transportation guidelines, and I'm sure they require there's so many meters and so many, you know, safety features and whatever.
00:09:25.039 --> 00:09:32.080
But trail building is a little more ad hoc, it's a little more do-it-yourself, and people love to volunteer and do it.
00:09:32.159 --> 00:09:34.240
It's not like you have to pay a big team to come in.
00:09:34.399 --> 00:09:40.720
Has that been your experience that somehow the magic of trail building has gripped uh the people who built these trails?
00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:41.840
Absolutely.
00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:54.879
And I think that's another element of how we experience the successes that we've had, is trail building in and of itself is a form of art.
00:09:55.120 --> 00:10:00.320
You know, when I'm working with the kids, we always tell them that this is not a construction project, it's an art project.
00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:03.360
We are creating an experience.
00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:10.080
Um, when people walk your trail, they're going to experience the story that you created through this trail.
00:10:10.159 --> 00:10:15.039
And that's something that really appeals and resonates with the people in those communities.
00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:18.080
Um, and it was something that they could get behind really quickly.
00:10:18.159 --> 00:10:26.080
And we found again, like when we showed up and we're trying to talk about mountain biking, it was something that we brought in from an outsider perspective.
00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:28.639
You know, it was something that came from outside the community.
00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:33.919
But when we're out in the woods and we're building trails, we're working with their land.
00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:36.240
We're working with their stories.
00:10:36.399 --> 00:10:38.799
Um, and we're building to their needs.
00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:45.360
And that was something that just really connected with people in a in a much deeper and more meaningful way.
00:10:45.519 --> 00:10:55.679
And a lot of the youth we work with, you know, often they're the kind of the kids that don't really fit in anywhere else in in the school or, you know, the programs that are available to them.
00:10:55.840 --> 00:10:57.360
And they can be quite artistic.
00:10:57.440 --> 00:11:03.759
You know, we work with a lot of kids who carve and who want to paint and who want to experience the land in that kind of way.
00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:08.799
And that was something that worked really well when we started working from that perspective.
00:11:08.960 --> 00:11:10.480
And that's the beauty of trail building.
00:11:10.559 --> 00:11:13.200
It it is it's landscape art.
00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:17.120
Can you give us an example of a story related to one of these trails?
00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:22.159
One of my favorite stories, actually, is I I call it the Herbie Standard.
00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:40.720
And it started, I was working in a coastal community, and you know, I'd be going into the band office and preparing the project, and we were given a team of youth and some community members, and we were going to build a trail from the community out to this little bay overlooking the sound.
00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:45.440
And there was a gentleman who was always in the band office, he was an elected council member.
00:11:45.600 --> 00:11:46.320
His name was Herbie.
00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:51.039
And Herbie was uh a very large individual.
00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:57.039
Um, and he had trouble walking, and he would usually just kind of hang out in the band office and talk to everybody who came in.
00:11:57.120 --> 00:11:59.759
He was just a lovely, lovely man, always telling jokes.
00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:12.720
And he told me one day, he came into the office and he had bought himself this new pair of really big white sneakers and some walking poles and this fleece, bright red fleece jacket.
00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:19.600
And he had been told by his doctor that he was pre-diabetic and he needed to get knee surgery, but he could do neither.
00:12:19.759 --> 00:12:29.200
He had to get his diabetes under control, and he had to lose a very significant amount of weight before he could get his knee surgery done.
00:12:29.519 --> 00:12:32.080
And he was talking about how he needed to change his diet.
00:12:32.320 --> 00:12:35.519
He kept saying, you know, I'm eating a very Western colonial diet.
00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:38.879
I've lost connection with the diet my people had.
00:12:39.200 --> 00:12:41.919
And he knew he had to get out and start walking.
00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:51.440
Now, this is a tiny little coastal community, so there was really only one little ring road around half a dozen homes where he could walk.
00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:53.919
You know, everything else was kind of closed in.
00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:58.799
Um, and he would get out every day and he'd walk these trails in this loop over and over and over again.
00:12:58.879 --> 00:13:00.480
He'd have to get his 10,000 steps.
00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:06.000
And myself and the kids, we started building a trail off that loop road into the woods.
00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:09.279
And one day we saw Herbie walking past, and the kids called out to him.
00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:10.879
They're like, Herbie, come join us.
00:13:10.960 --> 00:13:13.200
Like they were sirens in the trees.
00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:27.200
And I remember he looked kind of in at us in the murky trees where we were we were building, and he couldn't come join us because there was a little ditch just at the side of the road, and then kind of a sharp little hill up to the edge of the forest, and it was just too much for him.
00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:32.720
So without me saying anything, the kids went back and they're like, We're gonna read, we're gonna fix this for him.
00:13:32.879 --> 00:13:44.159
And I showed him, okay, well, we can build a little bridge here, and then we'll build a little cut bank along the along the slope so he can get up to the trees a little bit easier, and maybe that'll make it a bit easier for him.
00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:47.440
And the next day, Herbie showed up on his walk and he stopped.
00:13:47.600 --> 00:13:49.600
Kids called out to him, Herbie, come join us.
00:13:49.759 --> 00:14:02.480
And he was able to walk across that little bridge, up the little cut bank to the edge of the trees, but then he had to stop because there was some like difficult routes and another steep section ahead of him, and he just couldn't quite make it at that point.
00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:08.639
And again, the kids went back and they wanted like we want to fix this trail, and that's all they cared about.
00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:20.159
Um, so over the next couple of months, I worked with these kids, and every part of the trail, every day, we were building the trail just so that Herbie could make it further along the trail to join us.
00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:24.399
And over the summer, they built this trail exclusively for Herbie.
00:14:24.559 --> 00:14:29.279
And every day we called it the Herbie Stand because we'd be like, Can Herbie make it up this little hill?
00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:30.960
Can Herbie make it over this route?
00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:33.440
Maybe Herbie needs a bench here where he can rest.
00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:40.559
So over the summer, if we built a three-kilometer long trail that led out to a bay, to a little viewpoint, overlooked the bay.
00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:46.159
And Herbie told us like he actually lived at that bay at one point with his mom in a house that they used to have there.
00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:49.200
And he finally made it out to the bay.
00:14:49.360 --> 00:14:55.840
And over the course of that summer, and a year later, I went back to the community and we were planning the next phase of the trail.
00:14:56.080 --> 00:15:01.679
And I was walking up the trail, and all of a sudden I noticed this man coming down the trail towards me, a rather slim-looking guy.
00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:08.799
And he had this bright red fleece jacket on that was kind of waving behind him like a cape, and these giant white sneakers and these poles.
00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:10.559
He was just charging down the trail.
00:15:10.639 --> 00:15:12.159
And I realized it was Herbie.
00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:13.600
And he comes storming down.
00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:14.960
He's like, I got my new knees.
00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:18.639
And I had to jump out of his way because he was walking past me.
00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:21.039
And he just trundled on down the trail.
00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:30.240
And so over the year, those kids they built the platform that he was using to regain sovereignty over his body.
00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:32.799
And the kids, they were so proud of that.
00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:38.799
I remember the day when he finally reached the platform, they're all high-fiving him and high-fiving each other and giving each other hugs.
00:15:38.960 --> 00:15:42.799
That's the kind of stuff that we see in the community that keeps us going every year.
00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:49.440
I think we're gonna have to rename the all ages and accessibility standard as the Herbie standard.
00:15:49.759 --> 00:15:52.879
Yeah, because that's basically what you've just described.
00:15:53.039 --> 00:16:17.360
Yeah, so if if these trails are providing a great benefit within the communities, how you've described these trails as part of reconciliation.
00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:23.679
And how does the outside culture and the cross-cultural uh forces come into play there?
00:16:24.159 --> 00:16:29.039
Well, in terms of reconciliation, I mean, there's a there's a number of different fronts where that can work.
00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:50.720
So the first space where I see that working is clubs often come to me because they want to ensure that trails that they're building on indigenous lands and territories are being done in a way that's respectful and doesn't perpetuate the harm that comes from colonialism and recreation.
00:16:50.799 --> 00:16:54.000
Because those two things have always been explicitly linked, right?
00:16:54.240 --> 00:17:02.000
We've cleared the land to make way for recreation, and sometimes we've undermined indigenous rights entitled to do that.
00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:11.759
Um, so we need to repair those relationships and ensure that if we are building trails or we're, you know, we're playing out on the land that we're doing in a way that is respectful and done in a good way.
00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:14.559
So clubs will often come to me and we'll talk about that.
00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:17.279
Uh and there's some really good examples.
00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:21.440
I think one of the best is the Squamish Off-Road Cycling Association.
00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:26.880
They for years worked to develop a relationship with the Squamish First Nation.
00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:49.759
And recently, I think in the last couple of years, they signed a partnership agreement with the Squamish First Nation to manage and guide how they would uh build and maintain trails on their land, like their specific lands that uh they got a bunch of lands back through a land transfer agreement that had to do with LNG.
00:17:50.319 --> 00:18:02.240
And the lands that they got back, the Squamish Nation got back from the government as a as part of those negotiations, had very popular trails and recreation sites on them, including climbing.
00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:05.359
Uh, the the petrifying wall was part of that.
00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:10.000
So the club had for years been working to develop that relationship.
00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:17.759
They supported youth indigenous youth to get a riding, they provided employment opportunities for indigenous youth to be a part of the trail building.
00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:21.759
So they had worked for years to develop that kind of a relationship.
00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:25.440
And I think that's a really good example of reconciliation and action.
00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:28.799
And that is something I really encourage clubs to do.
00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:32.640
Um so when they come to me, they ask, you know, what can we do?
00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:40.640
I often say don't like a lot of when you want to build a trail in BC, you're supposed to go through uh rec sites and trails.
00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:43.599
And I say supposed to, you have to do that.
00:18:43.759 --> 00:18:46.720
It's a legal requirement, and we encourage everybody to do it.
00:18:46.880 --> 00:18:50.559
However, I always say go to the First Nation first.
00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:52.799
That's your first point of contact.
00:18:52.960 --> 00:19:05.680
Work with them, build that relationship, get their consent on where you want to build your trails, and then you go and you do the permits and everything you have to do with uh rec sites and trails BC because it is their land.
00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:21.599
The Royal Proclamation and recent court decisions, including the Williams decision in 2014, have clearly stated that the majority of land in BC is unceded, wasn't uh negotiated through treaties, and remains indigenous.
00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:25.680
I want to go back to the Indigenous Youth Mountain Bike Program.
00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:31.759
And you mentioned that you had trained uh was it 500 certified trail builders or something?
00:19:32.079 --> 00:19:35.839
Have the indigenous communities themselves taken ownership of this program?
00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:41.759
Do you have cases where you're not involved, but the program happens because Indigenous leaders step up?
00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:43.200
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:46.880
Um, quite a few of the communities we've worked with started with us.
00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:55.039
We would train their youth, we would help them plan out a series of trails, and then the community would continue on with building those trails.
00:19:55.119 --> 00:19:56.400
So there's quite a few.
00:19:56.559 --> 00:20:03.440
So groups like, say, the Simp First Nation, uh, they're a Shakatma community located in the North Thompson River Valley.
00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:06.240
And they were building trails before we even showed up.
00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:11.680
And we partnered with them because they wanted to enhance their trail building skills.
00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:20.160
They wanted, they wanted to work with some some of the folks that that they admired as trail builders, including Thomas Schoen, uh, my friend and colleague.
00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:25.359
So we worked with them to enhance their trail building skills and enhance the knowledge that they already had.
00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:28.880
They were really interested in learning how to build even better trails than they were already.
00:20:29.119 --> 00:20:54.480
And then, even though we worked with them for about five years in total, and we still work with them, but they developed their own trail building crew, their own trail building business, that they went on not only building trails around their community in Chuchua, which is just north of Barrier, where they built, I think around 20 kilometers of trail, but they also ended up working on trails throughout their traditional territories, which extends all the way up to Jasper.
00:20:54.880 --> 00:21:05.920
Uh, so they worked with the community of Blue River to build trails, they worked with the community of Clearwater to build trails, and they've been working with uh the town of Ailmount, where they've been building trails as well.
00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:19.279
So they used trails to assert their presence and their rights and title, as well as employment opportunities for the community and to support over the overall recreation industry throughout their territories.
00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:21.359
So that's a really good example.
00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:24.160
Uh, we've worked with the Heltsick First Nation in Bella Bella.
00:21:24.319 --> 00:21:30.400
We first trained their crew back in 2020 during the pandemic, and then they continued on and they've been building trails for years.
00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:35.119
And every once in a while, they'll invite us back to help them with a particular problem that they have.
00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:36.960
So they needed some bridges built.
00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:38.960
Uh so they're like, okay, we need help.
00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:41.359
We've been working the program that you taught us.
00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:44.960
Now we need you to come back and help us take it up to the next level.
00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:49.440
And so we'll have like this ongoing relationship with those communities over the years.
00:21:50.079 --> 00:21:50.400
Right.
00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:57.039
At the beginning, you mentioned that uh the impetus for this came from a particular group of youth in a particular community.
00:21:57.359 --> 00:21:59.599
Are the kids outriding their bikes on these?
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:01.519
Trails too still.
00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:03.359
Yeah, absolutely.
00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:07.519
Boothroy, the specific community that I mentioned, uh it's a bit different story.
00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:15.519
The kids that we built the bike park with then have all grown up and they're all uh you know out in their 20s now.
00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:17.519
That's how long we've been doing this.
00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:21.279
Uh and I think a few of them still ride, but they've all moved on.
00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:24.559
Um, and that bike park has since been built over.
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:27.279
They had to develop some new uh community facilities.
00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:32.079
But a lot of the community we work with, absolutely the kids are out riding and still building.
00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:38.720
And some of those kids we started with, you know, they were in their teens, so they they started building with us, then they left, right?
00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:47.839
Like they got more interested in girls and cars, and now some of them are in their early 20s and are returning to the community and getting back into riding and building.
00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:57.839
Uh, and Tom Eustache, who's our partner in Simp, he's telling me about how, yeah, some of these kids are coming back now, and now they're helping younger kids in the community ride.
00:22:57.920 --> 00:23:02.160
And we're we're seeing that generational change, which has been really exciting.
00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:04.319
These are great stories.
00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:05.759
I wonder about data.
00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:09.680
Do you have do you measure success by any quantifiable measures?
00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:11.359
Yeah, absolutely.
00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:15.039
Like we keep track of all the communities that we work with.
00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:22.000
We do our best to uh keep track of the trails that are being built, the number of kids that are working with us.
00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:28.559
Uh, some of the communities we do have trail trackers in place, sometimes trail cameras.
00:23:28.799 --> 00:23:32.160
So whenever we can, we collect that data from the nations.
00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:37.599
So that's how I'm able to state with fair confidence that we built over 200,000 meters of trail.
00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:44.559
Like I have an Excel sheet that shows each trail, each community, the trails that they've built, the number of kids that we trained.
00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:52.720
And if it's available and they track it, we know like how many people are using the trails and how often and for what uses.
00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:53.680
We track that.
00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:57.519
That's harder to track, but we do try to track that information as best we can.
00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:21.200
And we use that when we're helping the communities to access more funding, to show the results to the funders that we've already worked with, uh, and to try and give the provincial government an understanding of how important these trails are and how important that funding can be, and how important it is to invest in these types of amenities and infrastructure for rural and remote communities.
00:24:21.519 --> 00:24:24.000
Just before we go, tell us a bit about the funding.
00:24:24.079 --> 00:24:29.440
Who who's paying for all this and uh and and where does the money come from?
00:24:29.839 --> 00:24:34.960
Well, over the years, I think one of the biggest sources of funding has been the provincial government.
00:24:35.039 --> 00:24:40.400
Uh, in the past, uh, they had the rural development fund, it was an absolutely brilliant source of funding.
00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:50.319
Sometimes it's the regional uh development trusts, like the Northern Development Initiative Trust across Northern BC has one has been one of the biggest supporters of trails.
00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:54.319
The New Relationship Trust uh funded a lot of the early planning.
00:24:54.400 --> 00:24:57.680
That's uh an Indigenous-led fund for community development.
00:24:57.920 --> 00:25:13.359
And some corporate sponsorships, so groups like Mountain Equipment Co-op, the Pay Dirt Fund, which is run by Santa Cruz bikes, uh, and other corporations have funded us over the years, like One Up Components in Squamish.
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:18.880
Uh Seven Mesh Apparel out of Squamish has been one of our big funders and supporters over the years.
00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:22.400
Uh Fox Manufacturing has been a big supporter over the years.
00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:26.960
They have the Trail Trust, which is uh a big funder that supports trails around North America.
00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:29.920
Uh yeah, so there's been quite a few sponsors over the years.
00:25:30.079 --> 00:25:31.359
Every year is a struggle.
00:25:31.519 --> 00:25:34.240
You know, every year we're like, okay, what are we gonna do this year?
00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:36.319
Are we gonna be able to find funding?
00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:42.559
Sadly, I think the provincial government is not investing as much as they have in the past.
00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:55.519
Uh and the few chances I get to speak to someone, a political representative from the government, I really encourage them to start investing again in rural economic infrastructure development.
00:25:55.680 --> 00:26:02.799
I think that's one of the crucial pieces we can to really support sustainable rural communities.
00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:08.160
Trails are a critical element of what I call amenity uh migration.
00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:12.079
Trails are really important for attracting people to communities and keeping them there.
00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:24.000
That's how we get doctors and nurses and teachers and dentists to stay in rural, remote communities, is by providing the lifestyle choices that they need to help them stay there.
00:26:24.160 --> 00:26:26.640
And that's something we need to continue investing in.
00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:30.319
Trails have been an important part of the climate change response.
00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:41.839
You know, when Williams Lake experienced the massive wildfires that they had, we learned afterwards that it was trails that brought back a lot of people who wanted that lifestyle choice.
00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:45.119
That's what brought people back to those communities after those wildfires.
00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:53.839
We found with the First Nation communities that we worked with that trails were an integral part of helping them not only prepare, but to respond to the crisis.
00:26:54.079 --> 00:27:01.920
And because the trails made their people healthier and more resilient, they were able to get through that crisis and to come back together afterwards.
00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:09.440
So trails are a critical element of healthy, resilient, and adaptive communities, and we need to be investing in that.
00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:13.680
You mentioned before we started that you've done a number of podcasts on this program.
00:27:13.759 --> 00:27:20.880
And I know you've already, there's also a film called Dirt Relations that was at the Vancouver International Mountain Film Festival.
00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:22.880
How can people see that film?
00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:28.400
Well, the the Dirt Relations, so that's the story of the Indigenous Youth Mountain Bike Program.
00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:41.039
And it follows myself and my two best friends, Tom uh Eustache from the Simp First Nation and Thomas Schoen, who's a master trail builder from Williams Lake, and how we came together to develop the Indigenous Youth Mountain Bike Program.
00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:44.640
And that's on YouTube through uh Free Hub Magazine.
00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:46.880
Uh so you can see it on their pipeline series.
00:27:47.119 --> 00:27:52.720
Base go to YouTube, type in Indigenous Youth Mountain Bike Program, Dir Relations, and it'll come up.
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:57.119
Uh, and it's also you can access it through our website, imbp.ca.
00:27:58.000 --> 00:27:59.599
We're really proud of that film.
00:27:59.839 --> 00:28:04.000
And we did it because so many people approach us.
00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:12.480
And they like I get calls every other week from mountain bike clubs and and outdoor recreation groups and cycling groups, such as yourself, who want to know like what are you doing?
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:14.720
How are you engaging in this process?
00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:20.960
Because they know they need to work with First Nations on whose land they're playing and they want to do things in a good way.
00:28:21.119 --> 00:28:28.559
And I think storytelling is one of the most important and effective tools we have to move reconciliation forward.
00:28:28.799 --> 00:28:30.319
What's next for you?
00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:34.559
Uh well, we've got a couple uh trail projects that are happening this year.
00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:45.839
In fact, on uh Monday, I'm flying up to uh Nishka territory working with the village of Gingolf to develop a trail that's been on our radar for probably eight years.
00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:53.200
Uh, this lookout trail that goes on the cliffs above the village and provides amazing views of the NASA and the sound there.
00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:55.920
And you can see across the Alaskan panhandle.
00:28:56.079 --> 00:29:01.279
So we're gonna be up there next week planning that out and getting ready to work with the youth this summer to do that.
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:07.039
We'll be back in uh Wagalisla, also known as Bella Bella with the Hellsick First Nation.
00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:10.240
Uh so yeah, we got some exciting projects coming up this year.
00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:14.720
And always working, as I said, storytelling is a critical part of what I do.
00:29:14.799 --> 00:29:22.799
So trying to bring together some new film projects and keep stories around reconciliation and outdoor adventure uh moving forward.
00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:31.119
Patrick, it's a great story, and I'm glad that we've had the opportunity to share it with our listeners and wish you all the best, and uh, we'll keep track of what you're doing.
00:29:31.279 --> 00:29:32.160
Thanks so much.
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:45.839
You've been listening to Bike Sense, an original podcast from the BC Cycling Coalition.
00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:52.799
If you like the podcast, we'd be grateful if you could leave us a rating of whatever platform you use.
00:29:53.440 --> 00:29:57.359
You can also subscribe so you don't miss future episodes.
00:29:58.079 --> 00:30:06.079
If you have comments or suggestions for future episodes, email me at peter.ladner at bccycling.ca.
00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:18.400
You can help us amplify BC Cycling Coalition's voice by simply becoming a free member at bccycling.ca.