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Welcome to the podcast Beyond Expectations, Parenting Autism.
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Follow Michelle Chabola's journey of raising a child with autism, the challenges, victories, and rewards.
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If you're a parent, caregiver, or simply someone seeking to understand autism on a personal level, you're in the right place.
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All right, here we are beyond expectations.
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And today I have a guest I'm so excited about, Nancy with Rock Ride.
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And I'm gonna have her explain exactly what she does and why she's here today.
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So welcome to the show, Nancy.
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Thank you, Michelle, and I'm very excited to be here.
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Um I got to know Michelle because of her son's incredible woodcrafting talent and gifts that a dear friend brought to as a gift to me at Rock.
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And since then, we have um purchased his amazing art to give to other people.
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So anyway, that's kind of our little connection.
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But Rock Right on Center for Kids is a facility that started 28 years ago, and we put children, adults, and veterans uh in partnership with the horse.
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We connect them, and it's the whole purpose, our mission is to improve independence and life skills.
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And so we like to celebrate when any individual improves in their life skills.
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I'm still improving in my life skills, so um it's it's just been a great thing.
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But the horse is wonderful in how it helps make all those connections happen.
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And and for me, it just opens a window over and over again, a little door where a person can expand their personality and their skills and different things.
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And I think as individuals, we all put people in boxes.
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And um, we don't mean to, but we all do it.
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And then the horse, and I know there's other ways too, but the horse really, really helps people break out of their boxes.
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So it's it's it's very exciting to me to continue to work in this field.
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That's so cool.
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And you know, my son did this, but uh before he was speaking, he was, oh my gosh, three, three.
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This was the very first therapy that we did for Gregory.
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And um, he was three and a half, put that little, bought him the riding pants, the helmet, the whole get up and put that little baby on that horse.
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And I just about had a heart attack, but he loved it, and immediately it seemed to help with probably calming him down more than anything.
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You know, when he was on the horse, he wasn't stemming as much, he was very focused.
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And I know it it helps in so many ways, but it was great.
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He actually learned his colors on horseback, so I love I love that.
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And you know, it you see the horse be a catalyst to open up whatever it is kind of the focus could be, but I've seen so many individuals that have spoken their first words on a horse, or they've they've gotten their head control or their trunk control or whatever, uh, but having their anxiety and like you said, just calming him down, you know, um there's some genetic part of us that is created to rock.
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And that's why we rock babies, that's why rocking chairs are so critical for soothing.
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I mean, maybe one push should be that we should all have more rocking chairs, but the horse does that.
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It it moves the body through those patterns.
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And with the work that we've been doing the last 28 years, we've learned also how much good can happen from being beside the horse and working with the horse and learning some leadership skills and how to regulate yourself even without being on top of the horse.
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And I would have never thought that.
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My background's physical therapy, and I never would have assumed in those early years that amazing things could happen unless you sat on the back of the horse.
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And now we do incredible programs with um memory care and at-risk youth.
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And even our veterans program, they do eight weeks on the ground before they ever even sit on the back of a horse.
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So they learn to partner with the horse from the ground first before they ride.
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And and I I just never would have assumed that that was a huge part of all of that.
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I I didn't know that when I started.
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So I'm still learning.
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Oh, every day.
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And I do want to talk about your documentary, but again, with uh with everybody, I think Gregory as well, the trust that you have to have with this massive animal, right?
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I mean, you gotta trust it, it's gotta trust you.
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And and we, our neighbors both have horses, so Gregory gets to interact with them and feed them.
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And the biggest joke is one of us, one of them has three.
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And when I walk up to the fence with carrots, they're all over me, Nancy.
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They're just they're pushing me, they're taking them out of my hand.
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They walk up to Gregory and he's he makes them line up and take turns, and they do it.
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It is the it's it is the crazy, he says he's the horse whisperer, but he makes them and they all just stand there.
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And I'm like, how did you get because one of them's a little bit pushier than the other ones because oh, I just told him to stay there.
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And and and she does, she is a girl.
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And I'm like, okay.
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So it's just, I don't know, it's a trust thing, it's it's an it's amazing, it really is.
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And I know we have a documentary out that I definitely want to talk about.
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So tell us about that and how it came to be.
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So the land that we're on, the initial land, 20 acres, was a gift from George and Barbara Bratwell.
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And they were these amazing people in our community that were huge philanthropists.
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And they read an article about our initial program 28 years ago this month, and they their land was for sale, and they knew I was interested in it, and they decided to give it to Rock.
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So we debt-free, you know, we were able to start on this beautiful piece of property, and um, because of their generosity, well, they stayed on and became board members and board of advisors, and they never really left.
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They just stayed on and helped cultivate and educate us.
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They were uh big big uh community people for other nonprofits as well.
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Their love was for serving individuals and people.
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So, long story short, in 2019, they had decided that they wanted to do a documentary, and they came to me and they said, We've we've partnered with this uh wonderful woman named Twilight Labar.
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She's a a little movie director, and uh we want to do a documentary on rock.
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And and I just said, you go right ahead.
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But I one, I can't do it.
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I can't pick four people to be in it, I can't put one more thing on my plate.
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I'm running this whole program.
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And at that point, we were teaching at Texas AM, and we were also running this veterans program and seeing children, and we'd just gone through some construction.
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We were getting ready to go through some more construction.
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Well, they hired Twila and they hired a film crew and they started working on this documentary in 2019.
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COVID slowed it down, and then after COVID, they pulled it all together, and then they both died in 2023, George and Barbara, right when the movie was finished.
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And then it went into probate for a year, and then it was given to Rock by the judge, and they put me as the manager.
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So ultimately I wound up having to be a little more involved with it as a I worked closely with Twilas, she does all the social media, and uh even this weekend, later this afternoon, I'm leaving to fly to North Carolina because it was chosen for the Try-on Film Festival.
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Nice, and that's a big that's a big film festival.
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We've won lots and lots of awards.
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If you go to the Where the Horses Heal the Soul documentary, that's the Where the Horses Heal the Soul is the website, and it's on Facebook and TikTok and all the social media things.
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Uh-huh.
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But uh, it's about four characters and uh two veterans that served in the military, and it's about a young girl with with uh Down syndrome and another girl with cerebral palsy.
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And it could easily have had been somebody with a diagnosis of autism, only because we that's a huge part of who we serve at rock because it it's such a helpful um a helpful window to help open up doors for people.
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It is definitely definitely the sensory part of it as well.
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And you can watch it where on Apple and where else.
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Prime Video and Apple both show it.
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And there's a many, many more places.
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Uh YouTube, you can also uh get it.
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And so it's out there for sure.
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And uh um, it's been it's been kind of amazing.
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The following we uh two weeks ago we had a gentleman see it in North Carolina and get so excited about it, he flew down to witness rock for a couple of days after he watched the movie.
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So uh we're still pretty busy running the work that we do.
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So we're always surprised when something pops up from the movie.
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That's great.
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So if a parent was interested in this, how would you know whether your child, any disability, is a good candidate for hypotherapy, is what they call it, if you look it up, or they used to call it that, I guess.
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They used to contact campaign.
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Yeah.
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Um, how how would you know?
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I mean, like if you have one that's like, I don't know, I mean, they're busy, right?
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They're busy, they're making noises or making movements.
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Are they a good candidate, or does it need to be somebody super chill?
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Or how does how how would you know your child?
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The age, size, nothing.
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Well, we we start working with individuals at two.
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Oh, wow.
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And so I think the most important part of it is is it the partnership, the partnership with the people at the facility and their horses and their volunteers.
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And so my advice would be to visit a center near you, find these centers and ask to visit and see how it feels, see how it feels connecting with the individuals that give you the tour.
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And uh, even though your child might be uncomfortable around horses, that doesn't bother me at all because why wouldn't you be uncomfortable around horses?
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They're pretty big and new and all of that.
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But uh a lot of individuals that don't really care about horses do really well and benefit from the connection with the horse.
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So I think um there are some contraindications and precautions of people that shouldn't do this work, but it's very few.
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And the professionals, if you work with uh, we work under Path International, which is Professional Association of Therapeutic Horsemanship International, and it's a it's a website, and you can go to the you can go to the Path International website, pathinternational.org, and you can click on find a center, and then you can look at state and find what centers might be near you, and then you can email them or call them and say you'd like a tour.
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You have a loved one that you want to see if it might be a good connection.
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And you can fill out the paperwork.
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Most of a most programs have a waiting list, and so um my advice is always get a tour.
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Yeah.
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And do you have a waiting list at your place?
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Is it we do?
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We do have a waiting list.
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We we work hard to try to get them off in the summer for summer camps and some of our summer sessions.
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And um sometimes it's just about the time of day where when you can go.
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We might have an opening at 10 a.m., but nearly everybody wants that 4 p.m.
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Right slot.
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So and so a program.
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So if I did sign up, if that's been a while, and I I don't remember how long we did it because I remember, and I'll be honest with you, it was expensive.
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It was an expensive therapy for us, and our insurance didn't cover it.
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And of course, we were reaching, right?
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We were this was before rock.
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This was oh my gosh, it was well, it would have been 96, 97, I guess.
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Okay, and we started in 98.
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Yeah, so um, and we were in Colorado, so I found a program there.
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But um, I do remember it being a very expensive therapy.
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I remember it being amazing.
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But typically, what would a program be for a child?
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Would it be six weeks, eight weeks, or do you just go by how the child's progressing?
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And so we don't have a lot of cutoff times.
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So when a student starts, um, we we and it depends.
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Like if they're younger, they have to be with a physical therapist, a speech therapist, or occupational therapist.
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And as they get a little bit older, um, four years old, they can go into therapeutic writing and have a certified therapeutic writing instructor.
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So it depends on the goals for the family and the goals for the uh writer.
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I think a lot of times with neurological issues and neurodivergent issues, it's kind of a lifetime growth.
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And so we have some people that have been in the program, you know, for 10 or 20 years because they still continue to benefit and it helps regulate them and they continue to do well.
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So you don't see us um discharging people necessarily unless um it it's just not helpful for them anymore, which is just not the case.
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Recently we've been doing studies with Parkinson's, and that's been amazing to see what the benefits that are happening with balance and coordination with Parkinson's.
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So um I just continue to be amazed by what happens, but um we we it it costs about$150 to$200 every time we offer a session because of all the expenses.
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And we charge anywhere, most programs charge anywhere between$40 to$90, somewhere in there.
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And if you have PTO to your speech, you can sometimes get reimbursed.
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And then we also offer financial assist assistance.
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And so if families apply for that financial assistance, usually they can get even a reduction in their cost as well.
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So and I think most of the programs out there have some sort of program like that.
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Oh, okay.
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Well, that's good to know.
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That's that's definitely I mean all therapies, all therapy costs is something out of pocket, right?
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So a lot of times it is.
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A lot of times it is.
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In Texas, we have a Medicaid waiver program.
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So some of our families are able to qualify for that, and so they come and we do the billing and collect the funds, and they don't have to.
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So there are there are different avenues.
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And there's a program in South Austin that bills insurance a lot more aggressively than we do.
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And so it, you know, it just depends.
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Every center is a little bit different in how they manage um all of this.
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And the more research that we're that is coming out, you're seeing medical teams and medical facilities be more open to using this equine assisted services for rehabilitation.
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Yeah, that's great.
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So we skipped over your background.
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Is your background horses?
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No, no.
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Uh it was I'm a horse wannabe.
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So I wanted I wanted horses my whole life and never I got to go to Girl Scout horse camp and all of those kind of things, but I never got to have my own horse.
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And when I was in my 30s, I had seen that children in the school district, that's where I was a physical therapist, would wake up when they got a power wheelchair.
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And I was so transformed by how giving a person more independence and choice opened up their world.
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And I just thought I'm gonna major, specialize in power wheelchairs, or I'm gonna do what I always wanted to do, which was get a horse and do the same thing because I'd been studying that for years.
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And so I just took a leap and I resigned, and my boss asked me if I had any land, and I said no.
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And she said, Do you have a horse?
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And I said, no, and she said, Do you have any training?
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And I said, No.
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But I think this is a good thing, and I think the schools will come to us eventually when it gets started.
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I had so much confidence.
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I don't know if I could do that now, but I do see that it's really such a valuable service and treatment.
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And and I also don't want to be discouraging to people if they're like, well, we don't have a center here and we don't have any horses.
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And so I'm gosh, it'd be great, but we can't do that.
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But I really think the research is showing also that connections with nature are so critical.
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And so, you know, for some families, they might have a garden or they might take walks in nature or they might have a a dog or cat or but it's that connection with nature that makes such a difference.
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And there is some really unique things about the horse.
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So I am a huge advocate for the horse, but sometimes that's not possible for people.
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And so when you can't connect with the horse, make sure you're connected with nature because it that lowers anxiety, that helps regulate all of us is that connection.
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So there's other ways as well.
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Yeah, definitely, definitely just being outside, period.
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Yeah, yeah, just absorbing all of it.
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But uh, so go a little bit more into the the sensory, how how would that benefit a child with sensory dysfunction or just whatever they call it now?
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There's so many new names now since Gregory was diagnosed.
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I don't want to be technically correct, it's all I can't even I can't even keep up with it either.
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I know, you know, even though I've done this a long time, I don't understand 100% why it works.
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Because if you think about it, if individuals get sensory overloaded, and then you put them on a horse and they're moving through space and they're getting this movement that is rhythmical and bilateral that simulates normal walking, and then they have people giving them instructions, and then they're trying to manage a horse.
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You would think that that would overstimulate them and not decrease their sensory overload.
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But for whatever reason, that deep proprioception pressure they get with the horse, um, the skills that they learn in being able to be around a 1200-pound animal kind of wakes everybody up.
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It has a very calming effect on people's nervous system.
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And it's true for veterans that are struggling, it's true for children with autism, it's true for really, I mean, it's really, really a regulator for our nervous systems.
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We are our volunteer, our students down at AM who help run the program.
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So they're students at TexAN.
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And we have a program that looks just like rockets called Courtney Cares, CourtneyCares.org.
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And those students tell us that it is the calmest hour of their whole week when they get to come out and sidewalk with the horses and help other individuals.
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And it decreases their anxiety.
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And anxiety in college students is really huge.
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I mean, the suicide rate has gone up in college students, and so individuals, they just need this.
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They need they need that connection with nature to help regulate.
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And the horse is really a powerful way to calm the sensory system down.
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And again, it's through movement, symmetrical movement.
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So it's that rocking effect.
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It's through um moving through space, it's through the warmth of the horse, it's through the connections that happen.
00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:59.680
Um, all of those different things do something to our nervous system that can help calm it down.
00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:00.960
It's amazing.
00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:01.839
Just amazing.
00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:02.319
It is.
00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:09.920
You have to see it to really and I and if they were hesitant, I mean they could come visit, they could walk and pet the horse.
00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:12.720
You know, some people have never ever pet a horse before.
00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:14.160
No, no, no, no.
00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:18.720
And when they tell me they're scared of a horse, I think, well, that's pretty reasonable.
00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:25.279
You know, they're 1,200 pound animals, and and uh I think a real healthy respect for animals is such a good thing.
00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:29.680
So I'm not that doesn't if people are afraid of horses, that's not a problem.
00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:37.519
We our horses also are we work with them a tremendous amount and they're very desensitized, and they're still a horse.
00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:44.079
You know, if a if a hawk flew into the barn, it might it might scare the horse.
00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:48.319
You you maybe, maybe not, you don't know, but those things can't happen.
00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:55.599
So uh all of us have to be on alert that uh that they're a horse and they're a prey animal.
00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:01.599
And I always think that all of us at different times in our life are prey.
00:21:01.839 --> 00:21:08.880
And what I mean by that is it's like society or the world is not it's kind of against us and we're fearful.
00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:23.839
And we all go through that, and especially maybe with the diagnosis of autism, you know, the people don't understand you, they don't give you a second chance, um, they've they've put you in a box and the horse is a prey and they need a leader.
00:21:24.079 --> 00:21:29.599
They uh that's what a horse is checking you out all the time to see if you're a leader or you're a predator.
00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:34.880
So we teach people how to be leaders, and anyone can learn that.
00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:40.079
And when you learn how to lead a 1200-pound animal, you learn how to lead yourself.
00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:42.720
It's it's very, very clear.
00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:51.279
So a lot of things happen on a leadership level, on a sensory level level, on a regulation level, on a strengthening level level.
00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:59.680
All the uh I just read the family survey yesterday, and it was talking about all the things that they benefited, all the things their loved one benefited from.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:01.279
by being a part of this.
00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:03.119
And it the list was huge.
00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:08.160
And you can't always predict which one it will open up for an individual.
00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:08.880
Wow.
00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:10.799
So how many students do you have right now?
00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:11.359
Do you know?
00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:13.039
I mean, off the top of your head.
00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:16.559
We have around 400 families that we serve every year.
00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:17.119
Wow.
00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:27.039
And we serve a greater number than that, um, like 600 out in the community where we go out and do events and different things so that people can connect with the horse.
00:22:27.279 --> 00:22:31.200
But on a consistent lesson basis, we served about 400.
00:22:31.519 --> 00:22:32.000
Wow.
00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:33.519
That is amazing.
00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:36.559
There's just such a crazy it's crazy for it.
00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:47.440
Just the emotional bonding, the self-confidence, the mental reset, just that without even saying everything else that uh that comes along with it.
00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:51.440
It's is just so beneficial to be around these animals.
00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:53.839
I wish more and more people could do it.
00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:54.960
I do too.
00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:55.839
I do too.
00:22:55.920 --> 00:23:02.880
It breaks my heart when we can't meet all the needs, you know, and and we can't serve all the needs in our county.
00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:08.400
And we have other counties that come in and and use our facilities as well.
00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:17.119
And yeah, it that's a heartbreak all the time because I do think this is a really really good catalyst for change for individuals.
00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:26.480
And when you've when as a family when you've tried all kinds of things to help open the door for your loved one it's it's discouraging.
00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:29.440
And then it's discouraging if you can't get into one of these programs.
00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:37.599
So we just keep trying we just keep trying to open it up and we built a second arena a few years ago so that we could serve more individuals.
00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:39.759
So we're always looking at ways.
00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:42.160
And are you always looking for volunteers as well?
00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:46.559
Is there just an adult out there that just wants to be around horses and can't afford one.
00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:50.160
Yeah oh that's the best it's the best way to have a horse connection.
00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:51.759
It's the cheapest way for sure.
00:23:52.079 --> 00:24:16.640
But no we we have volunteers that uh work in our front office and volunteers that work in the arena and help groom and put the tack on horses and we have people that lead horses we have people volunteers that feed horses that sidewalk I mean we have a lot of jobs at rock and um people can go to our website rockride.org and sign up to go through volunteer training.
00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:26.799
We do a lot of orientation and a lot of teaching before people come in and we do background checks all those things all those things have to happen before people can volunteer.
00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:43.599
But yeah there's lots of great opportunities and wonderful people I mean our volunteers are the nicest greatest biggest hearts I've ever seen and they love our families and they love the individuals and um it it's a wonderful place to be.
00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:49.680
And and my experience has been that most of these therapeutic riding centers are like this.
00:24:49.759 --> 00:25:06.400
You know they're good hearted people that love nature and love horses and they love the individuals that are are trying to rise to the next level and that's what these places are for is to lift up people and encourage them and um see what happens.
00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:06.720
Yeah.
00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:08.079
It's always a surprise.
00:25:08.319 --> 00:25:11.759
Yeah do you still do your annual auction I know we used to be a part of it.
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:41.039
Your annual we do we do two big fundraisers we do a cowgirl brunch on November 7th this year and uh women come into the arena and decorate their tables it's a competition and then they have a brunch from like 11 to 1 and uh have mimosas and we have raffle baskets and a little tiny auction for a couple of fun girl trip things.
00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:57.519
Uh-huh and that's November 7th and then we have our barn dance in April and we have it in April every year and that's where we also have uh a big auction and we have a dance and um silent auction and live auction and a dance and that's huge.
00:25:57.599 --> 00:26:00.319
And both of them are unique because they're in the barn.
00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:02.240
Oh and people like that.
00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:08.319
You know they like to wear their boots and and get to walk in the dirt and we set the tables in the barn.
00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:17.759
It's it's like Cinderella the barn becomes Cinderella and then it when it's over it goes back to being a pumpkin going back to work.
00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:21.599
And that and all that's on your website too the dates of those events.
00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:24.880
Yes ma'am yes at rockride.org.
00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:27.680
So anyway that's awesome.
00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:32.240
Well this has been great Nancy I I was so excited to have you on because this was a huge thing.
00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:46.480
Gregory not only did hippotherapy he did dolphin therapy we we went the animal route from the very very beginning because I just I don't know there's just a connection with him that it just seems to work and he loved it.
00:26:46.559 --> 00:27:00.640
It does he absolutely does and he well and he's he's amazing he's a great example that by having those connections with nature it kept opening up doors until he kind of found out who he wanted to be and developed the skills that he did.
00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:08.079
And you know our I'll tell you my next program that I really want is I want a program for our caregivers.
00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:15.680
Because you know Michelle when I look at you and how you focus so much on the things that will benefit your son.
00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:25.359
And but when I look at our families and our caregivers, I this came about because I was a recent caregiver for my sister who had dementia before she died.
00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:49.119
And so even more than by watching the families I experienced it and I experienced how drained I was and how hard it was and I we've always tried to give our families a respite while their loved ones connected with the horse but if we really believed the horse is one of the connections one of the answers wouldn't it be great if we could give the caregivers that's a great idea.
00:27:49.920 --> 00:27:50.319
Yes.
00:27:50.559 --> 00:28:13.519
And we've done it a tiny bit with veterans with veteran caregivers some of those we've had some retreats but um I would just love for us to figure out a way hire some more staff and figure out some more times in our schedule so that caregivers could also get this connection that maybe could help fill their cup a little bit to continue to do what they do.
00:28:13.599 --> 00:28:14.559
Because that was unique.
00:28:15.359 --> 00:28:34.240
And you know Gregory has the younger brother two years younger and every therapy he did Michael wanted to do it whether it was his craniocral massage his horse therapy his dolphin therapy every single time so siblings and the caregivers are I mean we're the backbone right for these guys.
00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:41.440
You are you are and we have summer camps where our siblings a lot of times come and do those summer camps.
00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:49.519
Oh that's fine it's a it's a tiny piece of it just a little tiny dabble in letting those family members do it.
00:28:49.599 --> 00:29:06.480
But very interested they're looking at their sibling going wait a minute you know and so after every session we had to put everything on Michael and put him on the horse and even if it was just a little bitty walk around the you know the arena then he was fine you know because he can't oh that's so great.
00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:14.559
Same thing with the dolphin he had to get in there with the dolphins and then the same thing after every massage Michael got up on the table and they do a little bit on him.
00:29:14.720 --> 00:29:32.880
So it's uh yeah it it is important for everybody else we do put ourselves on the very back burner but but um the caregiver thing would be really really a lot of fun I would love it I it's my dream that's my next little thing I want to do a little trail ride or something that would be so much fun.
00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:48.319
Well you get back to your busy time and I will definitely put the documentary stuff on here the Path International and definitely your website so people can go volunteer and be a part of it because I believe in it and then I'm it's it's uh it's huge.
00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:49.119
It's really great.
00:29:49.359 --> 00:29:53.119
Well thank you for being so persistent in getting me on your podcast.
00:29:53.359 --> 00:29:57.519
I know I know I thought if I text her one more time she's gonna delete me.
00:29:57.759 --> 00:30:07.920
No no no no no no no I I just I need all the help I can get all the help continue to be a part of everything and we'll be a part of the auction and everything so I will get with you on that as well.
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:09.039
That sounds great.
00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:11.839
Thank you so much Michelle till Gregory.
00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:15.839
I will okay all right thank you bye
00:00:00.479 --> 00:00:05.679
Welcome to the podcast Beyond Expectations, Parenting Autism.
00:00:05.919 --> 00:00:11.919
Follow Michelle Chabola's journey of raising a child with autism, the challenges, victories, and rewards.
00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:19.280
If you're a parent, caregiver, or simply someone seeking to understand autism on a personal level, you're in the right place.
00:00:20.640 --> 00:00:23.280
All right, here we are beyond expectations.
00:00:23.359 --> 00:00:29.199
And today I have a guest I'm so excited about, Nancy with Rock Ride.
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And I'm gonna have her explain exactly what she does and why she's here today.
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So welcome to the show, Nancy.
00:00:36.960 --> 00:00:40.079
Thank you, Michelle, and I'm very excited to be here.
00:00:40.240 --> 00:00:52.960
Um I got to know Michelle because of her son's incredible woodcrafting talent and gifts that a dear friend brought to as a gift to me at Rock.
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And since then, we have um purchased his amazing art to give to other people.
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So anyway, that's kind of our little connection.
00:01:03.039 --> 00:01:13.280
But Rock Right on Center for Kids is a facility that started 28 years ago, and we put children, adults, and veterans uh in partnership with the horse.
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We connect them, and it's the whole purpose, our mission is to improve independence and life skills.
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And so we like to celebrate when any individual improves in their life skills.
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I'm still improving in my life skills, so um it's it's just been a great thing.
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But the horse is wonderful in how it helps make all those connections happen.
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And and for me, it just opens a window over and over again, a little door where a person can expand their personality and their skills and different things.
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And I think as individuals, we all put people in boxes.
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And um, we don't mean to, but we all do it.
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And then the horse, and I know there's other ways too, but the horse really, really helps people break out of their boxes.
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So it's it's it's very exciting to me to continue to work in this field.
00:02:03.680 --> 00:02:04.400
That's so cool.
00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:10.400
And you know, my son did this, but uh before he was speaking, he was, oh my gosh, three, three.
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This was the very first therapy that we did for Gregory.
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And um, he was three and a half, put that little, bought him the riding pants, the helmet, the whole get up and put that little baby on that horse.
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And I just about had a heart attack, but he loved it, and immediately it seemed to help with probably calming him down more than anything.
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You know, when he was on the horse, he wasn't stemming as much, he was very focused.
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And I know it it helps in so many ways, but it was great.
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He actually learned his colors on horseback, so I love I love that.
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And you know, it you see the horse be a catalyst to open up whatever it is kind of the focus could be, but I've seen so many individuals that have spoken their first words on a horse, or they've they've gotten their head control or their trunk control or whatever, uh, but having their anxiety and like you said, just calming him down, you know, um there's some genetic part of us that is created to rock.
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And that's why we rock babies, that's why rocking chairs are so critical for soothing.
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I mean, maybe one push should be that we should all have more rocking chairs, but the horse does that.
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It it moves the body through those patterns.
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And with the work that we've been doing the last 28 years, we've learned also how much good can happen from being beside the horse and working with the horse and learning some leadership skills and how to regulate yourself even without being on top of the horse.
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And I would have never thought that.
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My background's physical therapy, and I never would have assumed in those early years that amazing things could happen unless you sat on the back of the horse.
00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:10.719
And now we do incredible programs with um memory care and at-risk youth.
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And even our veterans program, they do eight weeks on the ground before they ever even sit on the back of a horse.
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So they learn to partner with the horse from the ground first before they ride.
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And and I I just never would have assumed that that was a huge part of all of that.
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I I didn't know that when I started.
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So I'm still learning.
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Oh, every day.
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And I do want to talk about your documentary, but again, with uh with everybody, I think Gregory as well, the trust that you have to have with this massive animal, right?
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I mean, you gotta trust it, it's gotta trust you.
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And and we, our neighbors both have horses, so Gregory gets to interact with them and feed them.
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And the biggest joke is one of us, one of them has three.
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And when I walk up to the fence with carrots, they're all over me, Nancy.
00:05:02.720 --> 00:05:05.519
They're just they're pushing me, they're taking them out of my hand.
00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:11.120
They walk up to Gregory and he's he makes them line up and take turns, and they do it.
00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:17.120
It is the it's it is the crazy, he says he's the horse whisperer, but he makes them and they all just stand there.
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And I'm like, how did you get because one of them's a little bit pushier than the other ones because oh, I just told him to stay there.
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And and and she does, she is a girl.
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And I'm like, okay.
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So it's just, I don't know, it's a trust thing, it's it's an it's amazing, it really is.
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And I know we have a documentary out that I definitely want to talk about.
00:05:34.720 --> 00:05:37.360
So tell us about that and how it came to be.
00:05:37.920 --> 00:05:44.800
So the land that we're on, the initial land, 20 acres, was a gift from George and Barbara Bratwell.
00:05:44.879 --> 00:05:49.360
And they were these amazing people in our community that were huge philanthropists.
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And they read an article about our initial program 28 years ago this month, and they their land was for sale, and they knew I was interested in it, and they decided to give it to Rock.
00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:15.600
So we debt-free, you know, we were able to start on this beautiful piece of property, and um, because of their generosity, well, they stayed on and became board members and board of advisors, and they never really left.
00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:18.959
They just stayed on and helped cultivate and educate us.
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They were uh big big uh community people for other nonprofits as well.
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Their love was for serving individuals and people.
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So, long story short, in 2019, they had decided that they wanted to do a documentary, and they came to me and they said, We've we've partnered with this uh wonderful woman named Twilight Labar.
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She's a a little movie director, and uh we want to do a documentary on rock.
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And and I just said, you go right ahead.
00:06:49.120 --> 00:06:51.120
But I one, I can't do it.
00:06:51.279 --> 00:06:55.759
I can't pick four people to be in it, I can't put one more thing on my plate.
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I'm running this whole program.
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And at that point, we were teaching at Texas AM, and we were also running this veterans program and seeing children, and we'd just gone through some construction.
00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:08.959
We were getting ready to go through some more construction.
00:07:09.199 --> 00:07:14.800
Well, they hired Twila and they hired a film crew and they started working on this documentary in 2019.
00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:25.040
COVID slowed it down, and then after COVID, they pulled it all together, and then they both died in 2023, George and Barbara, right when the movie was finished.
00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:31.279
And then it went into probate for a year, and then it was given to Rock by the judge, and they put me as the manager.
00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:48.399
So ultimately I wound up having to be a little more involved with it as a I worked closely with Twilas, she does all the social media, and uh even this weekend, later this afternoon, I'm leaving to fly to North Carolina because it was chosen for the Try-on Film Festival.
00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:51.040
Nice, and that's a big that's a big film festival.
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We've won lots and lots of awards.
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If you go to the Where the Horses Heal the Soul documentary, that's the Where the Horses Heal the Soul is the website, and it's on Facebook and TikTok and all the social media things.
00:08:04.639 --> 00:08:04.879
Uh-huh.
00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:17.680
But uh, it's about four characters and uh two veterans that served in the military, and it's about a young girl with with uh Down syndrome and another girl with cerebral palsy.
00:08:17.759 --> 00:08:32.960
And it could easily have had been somebody with a diagnosis of autism, only because we that's a huge part of who we serve at rock because it it's such a helpful um a helpful window to help open up doors for people.
00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:36.240
It is definitely definitely the sensory part of it as well.
00:08:36.399 --> 00:08:39.679
And you can watch it where on Apple and where else.
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Prime Video and Apple both show it.
00:08:44.639 --> 00:08:47.440
And there's a many, many more places.
00:08:47.600 --> 00:08:49.919
Uh YouTube, you can also uh get it.
00:08:51.519 --> 00:08:53.679
And so it's out there for sure.
00:08:53.840 --> 00:08:57.919
And uh um, it's been it's been kind of amazing.
00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:09.919
The following we uh two weeks ago we had a gentleman see it in North Carolina and get so excited about it, he flew down to witness rock for a couple of days after he watched the movie.
00:09:10.080 --> 00:09:13.679
So uh we're still pretty busy running the work that we do.
00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:16.960
So we're always surprised when something pops up from the movie.
00:09:17.200 --> 00:09:18.080
That's great.
00:09:18.399 --> 00:09:32.720
So if a parent was interested in this, how would you know whether your child, any disability, is a good candidate for hypotherapy, is what they call it, if you look it up, or they used to call it that, I guess.
00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:34.080
They used to contact campaign.
00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:34.559
Yeah.
00:09:34.799 --> 00:09:36.240
Um, how how would you know?
00:09:36.399 --> 00:09:40.320
I mean, like if you have one that's like, I don't know, I mean, they're busy, right?
00:09:40.399 --> 00:09:42.399
They're busy, they're making noises or making movements.
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Are they a good candidate, or does it need to be somebody super chill?
00:09:46.399 --> 00:09:49.039
Or how does how how would you know your child?
00:09:49.200 --> 00:09:51.440
The age, size, nothing.
00:09:51.759 --> 00:09:54.879
Well, we we start working with individuals at two.
00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:55.840
Oh, wow.
00:09:56.159 --> 00:10:09.519
And so I think the most important part of it is is it the partnership, the partnership with the people at the facility and their horses and their volunteers.
00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:23.120
And so my advice would be to visit a center near you, find these centers and ask to visit and see how it feels, see how it feels connecting with the individuals that give you the tour.
00:10:23.360 --> 00:10:31.759
And uh, even though your child might be uncomfortable around horses, that doesn't bother me at all because why wouldn't you be uncomfortable around horses?
00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:35.200
They're pretty big and new and all of that.
00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:43.600
But uh a lot of individuals that don't really care about horses do really well and benefit from the connection with the horse.
00:10:43.919 --> 00:10:51.759
So I think um there are some contraindications and precautions of people that shouldn't do this work, but it's very few.
00:10:51.919 --> 00:11:20.080
And the professionals, if you work with uh, we work under Path International, which is Professional Association of Therapeutic Horsemanship International, and it's a it's a website, and you can go to the you can go to the Path International website, pathinternational.org, and you can click on find a center, and then you can look at state and find what centers might be near you, and then you can email them or call them and say you'd like a tour.
00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:23.519
You have a loved one that you want to see if it might be a good connection.
00:11:23.679 --> 00:11:25.039
And you can fill out the paperwork.
00:11:25.120 --> 00:11:31.120
Most of a most programs have a waiting list, and so um my advice is always get a tour.
00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:31.519
Yeah.
00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:33.600
And do you have a waiting list at your place?
00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:35.039
Is it we do?
00:11:35.120 --> 00:11:36.080
We do have a waiting list.
00:11:36.559 --> 00:11:42.320
We we work hard to try to get them off in the summer for summer camps and some of our summer sessions.
00:11:42.399 --> 00:11:47.279
And um sometimes it's just about the time of day where when you can go.
00:11:47.440 --> 00:11:52.799
We might have an opening at 10 a.m., but nearly everybody wants that 4 p.m.
00:11:53.039 --> 00:11:54.000
Right slot.
00:11:54.480 --> 00:11:56.159
So and so a program.
00:11:56.320 --> 00:12:03.600
So if I did sign up, if that's been a while, and I I don't remember how long we did it because I remember, and I'll be honest with you, it was expensive.
00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:07.200
It was an expensive therapy for us, and our insurance didn't cover it.
00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:08.879
And of course, we were reaching, right?
00:12:08.960 --> 00:12:11.440
We were this was before rock.
00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:17.600
This was oh my gosh, it was well, it would have been 96, 97, I guess.
00:12:17.919 --> 00:12:19.519
Okay, and we started in 98.
00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:23.600
Yeah, so um, and we were in Colorado, so I found a program there.
00:12:23.679 --> 00:12:26.399
But um, I do remember it being a very expensive therapy.
00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:28.159
I remember it being amazing.
00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:32.080
But typically, what would a program be for a child?
00:12:32.240 --> 00:12:37.759
Would it be six weeks, eight weeks, or do you just go by how the child's progressing?
00:12:37.919 --> 00:12:42.080
And so we don't have a lot of cutoff times.
00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:46.320
So when a student starts, um, we we and it depends.
00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:51.679
Like if they're younger, they have to be with a physical therapist, a speech therapist, or occupational therapist.
00:12:51.840 --> 00:12:58.960
And as they get a little bit older, um, four years old, they can go into therapeutic writing and have a certified therapeutic writing instructor.
00:12:59.120 --> 00:13:04.000
So it depends on the goals for the family and the goals for the uh writer.
00:13:04.159 --> 00:13:12.320
I think a lot of times with neurological issues and neurodivergent issues, it's kind of a lifetime growth.
00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:23.600
And so we have some people that have been in the program, you know, for 10 or 20 years because they still continue to benefit and it helps regulate them and they continue to do well.
00:13:23.759 --> 00:13:34.720
So you don't see us um discharging people necessarily unless um it it's just not helpful for them anymore, which is just not the case.
00:13:34.879 --> 00:13:44.399
Recently we've been doing studies with Parkinson's, and that's been amazing to see what the benefits that are happening with balance and coordination with Parkinson's.
00:13:44.559 --> 00:13:57.039
So um I just continue to be amazed by what happens, but um we we it it costs about$150 to$200 every time we offer a session because of all the expenses.
00:13:57.200 --> 00:14:03.120
And we charge anywhere, most programs charge anywhere between$40 to$90, somewhere in there.
00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:07.200
And if you have PTO to your speech, you can sometimes get reimbursed.
00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:10.960
And then we also offer financial assist assistance.
00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:17.600
And so if families apply for that financial assistance, usually they can get even a reduction in their cost as well.
00:14:17.759 --> 00:14:22.320
So and I think most of the programs out there have some sort of program like that.
00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:23.200
Oh, okay.
00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:24.159
Well, that's good to know.
00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:30.240
That's that's definitely I mean all therapies, all therapy costs is something out of pocket, right?
00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:32.320
So a lot of times it is.
00:14:32.480 --> 00:14:33.360
A lot of times it is.
00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:36.080
In Texas, we have a Medicaid waiver program.
00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:44.000
So some of our families are able to qualify for that, and so they come and we do the billing and collect the funds, and they don't have to.
00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:46.639
So there are there are different avenues.
00:14:46.720 --> 00:14:52.639
And there's a program in South Austin that bills insurance a lot more aggressively than we do.
00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:54.879
And so it, you know, it just depends.
00:14:55.039 --> 00:14:59.600
Every center is a little bit different in how they manage um all of this.
00:14:59.679 --> 00:15:13.279
And the more research that we're that is coming out, you're seeing medical teams and medical facilities be more open to using this equine assisted services for rehabilitation.
00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:14.639
Yeah, that's great.
00:15:14.799 --> 00:15:16.320
So we skipped over your background.
00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:18.000
Is your background horses?
00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:20.080
No, no.
00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:22.320
Uh it was I'm a horse wannabe.
00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:31.919
So I wanted I wanted horses my whole life and never I got to go to Girl Scout horse camp and all of those kind of things, but I never got to have my own horse.
00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:41.840
And when I was in my 30s, I had seen that children in the school district, that's where I was a physical therapist, would wake up when they got a power wheelchair.
00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:52.639
And I was so transformed by how giving a person more independence and choice opened up their world.
00:15:52.879 --> 00:16:03.919
And I just thought I'm gonna major, specialize in power wheelchairs, or I'm gonna do what I always wanted to do, which was get a horse and do the same thing because I'd been studying that for years.
00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:11.200
And so I just took a leap and I resigned, and my boss asked me if I had any land, and I said no.
00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:12.480
And she said, Do you have a horse?
00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:14.559
And I said, no, and she said, Do you have any training?
00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:15.759
And I said, No.
00:16:16.159 --> 00:16:20.720
But I think this is a good thing, and I think the schools will come to us eventually when it gets started.
00:16:20.799 --> 00:16:22.159
I had so much confidence.
00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:30.080
I don't know if I could do that now, but I do see that it's really such a valuable service and treatment.
00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:36.320
And and I also don't want to be discouraging to people if they're like, well, we don't have a center here and we don't have any horses.
00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:40.879
And so I'm gosh, it'd be great, but we can't do that.
00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:47.600
But I really think the research is showing also that connections with nature are so critical.
00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:59.759
And so, you know, for some families, they might have a garden or they might take walks in nature or they might have a a dog or cat or but it's that connection with nature that makes such a difference.
00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:02.159
And there is some really unique things about the horse.
00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:06.400
So I am a huge advocate for the horse, but sometimes that's not possible for people.
00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:17.599
And so when you can't connect with the horse, make sure you're connected with nature because it that lowers anxiety, that helps regulate all of us is that connection.
00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:19.839
So there's other ways as well.
00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:23.279
Yeah, definitely, definitely just being outside, period.
00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:26.960
Yeah, yeah, just absorbing all of it.
00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:40.240
But uh, so go a little bit more into the the sensory, how how would that benefit a child with sensory dysfunction or just whatever they call it now?
00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:43.119
There's so many new names now since Gregory was diagnosed.
00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:47.680
I don't want to be technically correct, it's all I can't even I can't even keep up with it either.
00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:54.319
I know, you know, even though I've done this a long time, I don't understand 100% why it works.
00:17:54.559 --> 00:18:15.519
Because if you think about it, if individuals get sensory overloaded, and then you put them on a horse and they're moving through space and they're getting this movement that is rhythmical and bilateral that simulates normal walking, and then they have people giving them instructions, and then they're trying to manage a horse.
00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:21.359
You would think that that would overstimulate them and not decrease their sensory overload.
00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:35.440
But for whatever reason, that deep proprioception pressure they get with the horse, um, the skills that they learn in being able to be around a 1200-pound animal kind of wakes everybody up.
00:18:35.680 --> 00:18:39.279
It has a very calming effect on people's nervous system.
00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:52.480
And it's true for veterans that are struggling, it's true for children with autism, it's true for really, I mean, it's really, really a regulator for our nervous systems.
00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:58.079
We are our volunteer, our students down at AM who help run the program.
00:18:58.319 --> 00:18:59.920
So they're students at TexAN.
00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:06.640
And we have a program that looks just like rockets called Courtney Cares, CourtneyCares.org.
00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:17.519
And those students tell us that it is the calmest hour of their whole week when they get to come out and sidewalk with the horses and help other individuals.
00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:21.200
And it decreases their anxiety.
00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:24.079
And anxiety in college students is really huge.
00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:31.039
I mean, the suicide rate has gone up in college students, and so individuals, they just need this.
00:19:31.119 --> 00:19:35.279
They need they need that connection with nature to help regulate.
00:19:35.359 --> 00:19:41.039
And the horse is really a powerful way to calm the sensory system down.
00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:44.240
And again, it's through movement, symmetrical movement.
00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:46.079
So it's that rocking effect.
00:19:46.480 --> 00:19:53.599
It's through um moving through space, it's through the warmth of the horse, it's through the connections that happen.
00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:59.680
Um, all of those different things do something to our nervous system that can help calm it down.
00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:00.960
It's amazing.
00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:01.839
Just amazing.
00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:02.319
It is.
00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:09.920
You have to see it to really and I and if they were hesitant, I mean they could come visit, they could walk and pet the horse.
00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:12.720
You know, some people have never ever pet a horse before.
00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:14.160
No, no, no, no.
00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:18.720
And when they tell me they're scared of a horse, I think, well, that's pretty reasonable.
00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:25.279
You know, they're 1,200 pound animals, and and uh I think a real healthy respect for animals is such a good thing.
00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:29.680
So I'm not that doesn't if people are afraid of horses, that's not a problem.
00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:37.519
We our horses also are we work with them a tremendous amount and they're very desensitized, and they're still a horse.
00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:44.079
You know, if a if a hawk flew into the barn, it might it might scare the horse.
00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:48.319
You you maybe, maybe not, you don't know, but those things can't happen.
00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:55.599
So uh all of us have to be on alert that uh that they're a horse and they're a prey animal.
00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:01.599
And I always think that all of us at different times in our life are prey.
00:21:01.839 --> 00:21:08.880
And what I mean by that is it's like society or the world is not it's kind of against us and we're fearful.
00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:23.839
And we all go through that, and especially maybe with the diagnosis of autism, you know, the people don't understand you, they don't give you a second chance, um, they've they've put you in a box and the horse is a prey and they need a leader.
00:21:24.079 --> 00:21:29.599
They uh that's what a horse is checking you out all the time to see if you're a leader or you're a predator.
00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:34.880
So we teach people how to be leaders, and anyone can learn that.
00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:40.079
And when you learn how to lead a 1200-pound animal, you learn how to lead yourself.
00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:42.720
It's it's very, very clear.
00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:51.279
So a lot of things happen on a leadership level, on a sensory level level, on a regulation level, on a strengthening level level.
00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:59.680
All the uh I just read the family survey yesterday, and it was talking about all the things that they benefited, all the things their loved one benefited from.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:01.279
by being a part of this.
00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:03.119
And it the list was huge.
00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:08.160
And you can't always predict which one it will open up for an individual.
00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:08.880
Wow.
00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:10.799
So how many students do you have right now?
00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:11.359
Do you know?
00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:13.039
I mean, off the top of your head.
00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:16.559
We have around 400 families that we serve every year.
00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:17.119
Wow.
00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:27.039
And we serve a greater number than that, um, like 600 out in the community where we go out and do events and different things so that people can connect with the horse.
00:22:27.279 --> 00:22:31.200
But on a consistent lesson basis, we served about 400.
00:22:31.519 --> 00:22:32.000
Wow.
00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:33.519
That is amazing.
00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:36.559
There's just such a crazy it's crazy for it.
00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:47.440
Just the emotional bonding, the self-confidence, the mental reset, just that without even saying everything else that uh that comes along with it.
00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:51.440
It's is just so beneficial to be around these animals.
00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:53.839
I wish more and more people could do it.
00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:54.960
I do too.
00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:55.839
I do too.
00:22:55.920 --> 00:23:02.880
It breaks my heart when we can't meet all the needs, you know, and and we can't serve all the needs in our county.
00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:08.400
And we have other counties that come in and and use our facilities as well.
00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:17.119
And yeah, it that's a heartbreak all the time because I do think this is a really really good catalyst for change for individuals.
00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:26.480
And when you've when as a family when you've tried all kinds of things to help open the door for your loved one it's it's discouraging.
00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:29.440
And then it's discouraging if you can't get into one of these programs.
00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:37.599
So we just keep trying we just keep trying to open it up and we built a second arena a few years ago so that we could serve more individuals.
00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:39.759
So we're always looking at ways.
00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:42.160
And are you always looking for volunteers as well?
00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:46.559
Is there just an adult out there that just wants to be around horses and can't afford one.
00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:50.160
Yeah oh that's the best it's the best way to have a horse connection.
00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:51.759
It's the cheapest way for sure.
00:23:52.079 --> 00:24:16.640
But no we we have volunteers that uh work in our front office and volunteers that work in the arena and help groom and put the tack on horses and we have people that lead horses we have people volunteers that feed horses that sidewalk I mean we have a lot of jobs at rock and um people can go to our website rockride.org and sign up to go through volunteer training.
00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:26.799
We do a lot of orientation and a lot of teaching before people come in and we do background checks all those things all those things have to happen before people can volunteer.
00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:43.599
But yeah there's lots of great opportunities and wonderful people I mean our volunteers are the nicest greatest biggest hearts I've ever seen and they love our families and they love the individuals and um it it's a wonderful place to be.
00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:49.680
And and my experience has been that most of these therapeutic riding centers are like this.
00:24:49.759 --> 00:25:06.400
You know they're good hearted people that love nature and love horses and they love the individuals that are are trying to rise to the next level and that's what these places are for is to lift up people and encourage them and um see what happens.
00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:06.720
Yeah.
00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:08.079
It's always a surprise.
00:25:08.319 --> 00:25:11.759
Yeah do you still do your annual auction I know we used to be a part of it.
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:41.039
Your annual we do we do two big fundraisers we do a cowgirl brunch on November 7th this year and uh women come into the arena and decorate their tables it's a competition and then they have a brunch from like 11 to 1 and uh have mimosas and we have raffle baskets and a little tiny auction for a couple of fun girl trip things.
00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:57.519
Uh-huh and that's November 7th and then we have our barn dance in April and we have it in April every year and that's where we also have uh a big auction and we have a dance and um silent auction and live auction and a dance and that's huge.
00:25:57.599 --> 00:26:00.319
And both of them are unique because they're in the barn.
00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:02.240
Oh and people like that.
00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:08.319
You know they like to wear their boots and and get to walk in the dirt and we set the tables in the barn.
00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:17.759
It's it's like Cinderella the barn becomes Cinderella and then it when it's over it goes back to being a pumpkin going back to work.
00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:21.599
And that and all that's on your website too the dates of those events.
00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:24.880
Yes ma'am yes at rockride.org.
00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:27.680
So anyway that's awesome.
00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:32.240
Well this has been great Nancy I I was so excited to have you on because this was a huge thing.
00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:46.480
Gregory not only did hippotherapy he did dolphin therapy we we went the animal route from the very very beginning because I just I don't know there's just a connection with him that it just seems to work and he loved it.
00:26:46.559 --> 00:27:00.640
It does he absolutely does and he well and he's he's amazing he's a great example that by having those connections with nature it kept opening up doors until he kind of found out who he wanted to be and developed the skills that he did.
00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:08.079
And you know our I'll tell you my next program that I really want is I want a program for our caregivers.
00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:15.680
Because you know Michelle when I look at you and how you focus so much on the things that will benefit your son.
00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:25.359
And but when I look at our families and our caregivers, I this came about because I was a recent caregiver for my sister who had dementia before she died.
00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:49.119
And so even more than by watching the families I experienced it and I experienced how drained I was and how hard it was and I we've always tried to give our families a respite while their loved ones connected with the horse but if we really believed the horse is one of the connections one of the answers wouldn't it be great if we could give the caregivers that's a great idea.
00:27:49.920 --> 00:27:50.319
Yes.
00:27:50.559 --> 00:28:13.519
And we've done it a tiny bit with veterans with veteran caregivers some of those we've had some retreats but um I would just love for us to figure out a way hire some more staff and figure out some more times in our schedule so that caregivers could also get this connection that maybe could help fill their cup a little bit to continue to do what they do.
00:28:13.599 --> 00:28:14.559
Because that was unique.
00:28:15.359 --> 00:28:34.240
And you know Gregory has the younger brother two years younger and every therapy he did Michael wanted to do it whether it was his craniocral massage his horse therapy his dolphin therapy every single time so siblings and the caregivers are I mean we're the backbone right for these guys.
00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:41.440
You are you are and we have summer camps where our siblings a lot of times come and do those summer camps.
00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:49.519
Oh that's fine it's a it's a tiny piece of it just a little tiny dabble in letting those family members do it.
00:28:49.599 --> 00:29:06.480
But very interested they're looking at their sibling going wait a minute you know and so after every session we had to put everything on Michael and put him on the horse and even if it was just a little bitty walk around the you know the arena then he was fine you know because he can't oh that's so great.
00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:14.559
Same thing with the dolphin he had to get in there with the dolphins and then the same thing after every massage Michael got up on the table and they do a little bit on him.
00:29:14.720 --> 00:29:32.880
So it's uh yeah it it is important for everybody else we do put ourselves on the very back burner but but um the caregiver thing would be really really a lot of fun I would love it I it's my dream that's my next little thing I want to do a little trail ride or something that would be so much fun.
00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:48.319
Well you get back to your busy time and I will definitely put the documentary stuff on here the Path International and definitely your website so people can go volunteer and be a part of it because I believe in it and then I'm it's it's uh it's huge.
00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:49.119
It's really great.
00:29:49.359 --> 00:29:53.119
Well thank you for being so persistent in getting me on your podcast.
00:29:53.359 --> 00:29:57.519
I know I know I thought if I text her one more time she's gonna delete me.
00:29:57.759 --> 00:30:07.920
No no no no no no no I I just I need all the help I can get all the help continue to be a part of everything and we'll be a part of the auction and everything so I will get with you on that as well.
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:09.039
That sounds great.
00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:11.839
Thank you so much Michelle till Gregory.
00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:15.839
I will okay all right thank you bye
