Your Hormones Might Not be “Low” or “High”….They Might Just Be Muffled

Amanda: Hello everyone. It's that time again, right, Sarah? We're back
Sarah Amidon: That's right.
Amanda: to Beyond the Sequence. And today, we're gonna talk about bunch of stuff, but the focus of today is signal confusion. So remember, we've been going through these different sort of what do we want to say categories of how we want to approach the podcast this year. And so we're in the signals, signaling segment. And guess what? It's probably everyone's favorite topic. We are going to be talking about hormones every which way today. your hormones might not be low or high, they might just be muffled. So we're gonna talk. That's why I said we're gonna kind of put hormones almost like this glass ball. I always love this idea, and then you're kind of looking at this glass ball like all different ways or a globe, all different ways of d of unpacking that topic. But before we do that. We're going to chit-chat about what you and I have been doing together, what we've been doing separately, what we'll probably do in the future. So, what have you been up to, Sarah? Now, what have we done together?
Sarah Amidon: Yeah, well, we finally just, I think, pushed the final submit button on the manuscript for the up-and-coming 17th edition of the Krause and Mayhans Dietetics textbook. So it's been around since what, the 80s, I believe, and it's coming into its 17th edition. So we were asked to contribute to chapter seven, which is the nutritional genomics chapter. And So we collaborated with some of our colleagues. We had Natalie Sampson and Denise Furnace. and I had an intern at the time, a PhD student who's also getting her RD, Kylie. And she just got married. I totally forget her her married name. and then Amanda and I. So we collaborated on this chapter together, never having a single Zoom meeting, working around the world. Denise's, you know, jet setting everywhere. but we she actually emailed me yesterday. She was like, Thank you so much. I'm sorry I wasn't, you know, available to kind of finish up everything. But she was like, We should have a Zoom call and just like have a little celebration toast or something. So so we'll have to email the
Amanda: He's ace. Yeah.
Sarah Amidon: group and see whenever everyone's available. But it feels good to get that monkey off our back. So
Amanda: Woo, that was a big one because the sciences move so fast. I don't know when the last edition came out, Sarah, but there was so much insight we wanted to bring because all of us are practicing. and is when you're practicing the interpretation, the science is still the same, right? Of course it's moved on, but how we may look at it in terms of bestowing insights into why this science is useful if you're stepping into clinical practice that. completely needed updating. So it was actually a lot of work, but it was a it was a privilege, I think, to to do that and to maybe encourage the next generation of practitioners, regardless of how you're studying into this amazing field that we're in. So yeah, check Sarah. Sarah was a team lead. We are
Sarah Amidon: Yeah, that was
Amanda: it all funneled up through you. So it's a lot of work.
Sarah Amidon: I don't know what I got myself into. I'm glad I did it. it's super challenging to try to
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah Amidon: I think the decision making is probably the hardest part. It's like what do you how do you decide what to cut and what to include?
Amanda: Mm-hmm.
Sarah Amidon: but you had beautiful sections on the obesity and weight health and the diabetes section. And then my favorite probably my favorite part is the social genomics box that you added, which is super Super awesome and I think comes into play the holistic care for how our gene expression works is not just about food. It's about our exposures and to in our environment. And we saw that play out during COVID in isolation and how all of our relationships matter to our gene expression. I don't know if you want to elaborate on that at all, but it was so cool.
Amanda: I mean, that's just my favorite topic, even though we're hard, hard, hard deep, deep into DNA and biochemistry and physiology. But when I first heard Stephen Cole talk about human social genomics, I was blown away because it was the first time that we could hear scientists show how the environment we're not talking about toxic well, toxic emotional environment, if you will. Let's think about that piece, how that can be measured. In ourselves, in our immune responses, which is really what their work was. That blew me away. and it just illuminated a whole different way of understanding how humans show up in the world. And now working in epigenetics, of course, the signature of tragedy and trauma, we can see it in your genes. And if we, as you talk about too, like tragedy, trauma. wrong relationships, abandonment, just name all those pieces of where I think trauma is the one that comes up the most. To be able to see that in an epigenetic signature, which is how your genes are turned on and off, is mind-blowing to me. And I'm seeing it. And so and like you said, the exposure you talked about during COVID, isolation. We can now read that in genetics. But also environmental exposures and toxicity, I am telling you, Whoever con that phrase, we are we're carrying around a credit card versus plastic in us, is true. It is a hundred percent true. I'm almost devastated to tell everyone that we can see that in epigenetic signatures. So yeah. So human social genomics is about the impact of the, I would say more emotional, societal, familial experience. and how that impacts us. Wow.
Sarah Amidon: Yeah, my sister-in-law just shared something earlier this week about this 10-year-old boy who realized that a caterpillar that he reared that then became a butterfly actually remembered him. And so
Amanda: Mm.
Sarah Amidon: he reached out to this entomologist researcher and said, Do you think we could like study this? And so the entomologist, forgive me, I don't remember anyone's name, but you could probably Google it. But she said yes. And so they designed this study. For these caterpillars to be exposed to like lavender, like in a in a negative way. and that they remembered that like generations down. So like the caterpillars that then turned into butterflies, their offspring also were like turned off by this lavender. And so even though they completely change, like their bodies become something completely different, they're they're carrying, you know, this memory. including whoever's rearing them, the caterpillars that then become butterflies. And I just thought that was like, yes, like
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah Amidon: that's exactly the things we're talking about. The you
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah Amidon: know, there's no such thing, in my opinion, as someone who loves the Lord and thinks that God, you know, designed everything. Like the Lord designed everything, including our DNA. And I don't think we have junk DNA. I think it all has a purpose, but we don't necessarily know what that is yet. so
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah Amidon: I just Amazing. So cool to to see that. Something completely different from how we're treating patients, but is has like kind of a sideways relation. So
Amanda: Well, and it shows that transgenerational signature, which we know. We see that and we we see that in the science, it's known science, but to see that with the animal. But I I is is wonderful. But I think that's also when animals get lost years later, you know, the the foal remembers its mom or whatever when they're reintroduced, or a donkey
Sarah Amidon: Yeah.
Amanda: remembers its pal when they've been separated at birth, its sibling. It's just so beautiful. So
Sarah Amidon: Yeah.
Amanda: But yeah, so anyway, that was human social genomics. But you know I did want to say in that vein. one of the very illuminating podcasts I listened to of of late was, of course, Diary of a CEO is always very interesting. But he was interviewing, I think his name is Martin Picard. I may have the r name wrong, but he this guy is talking about the energetics of the mitochondria. he has a book coming out. So we know this, but you know, he sort of brought the the mitochondria to a new light, that they had they communicate with each other and all these really cool insights into the mitochondria. But he again is talking about the environment. He does he's not talking about genomics, I would, but the influence of trauma, that sadness, emotions are felt energetically, they deplete the mitochondria. So he's actually done research with I think it's Alyssa Apple. Who worked with Elizabeth Blackburn and they were the first ones to look at telomere length and
Sarah Amidon: Wow.
Amanda: the impact of the environment, the interuterine environment, when that woman is exposed to economic stress, so you know, social stress, partner stress, financial stress, and how that signature is actually hardwritten into the telomere, such as some people, the offspring, offspring of those women. May or they were able to show had stunted telomeres as a result of that epigenetic signature or that exposure on those genes reacted. You kind of think of them as like recoiling and being protective or upregulating to deal with an immune response. And that signal upregulated signature becomes hardwired in the next generation. So very well documented science. But all that to say
Sarah Amidon: Remarkable.
Amanda: that. I think eighty percent of our work has got nothing to do with what we put in our mouth. It has to do with what we surround ourselves with, including the environmental exposures. So yeah.
Sarah Amidon: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, as I say, sleep is probably my number one, even over nutrition, but it's I mean, any number of things they really add up and pile on. So we have to think about all the things. And that sometimes feels really overwhelming.
Amanda: All the thing.
Sarah Amidon: So getting good counsel from from a practitioner to help you think through what are the barriers to implementing these things. Cause I think It's really easy to see, well, I gotta exercise, I gotta eat right, I gotta, you know, manage my stress better, I gotta make sure I get like even just getting counseling for that overwhelm, I think, can be really helpful for people. It's like, okay, well, let's put together a plan. Like, if this feels too much for you, how can we remove the barriers to your success? So
Amanda: Just moved to Italy and lived at Dol Travita. I mean, you know, it's pretty easy. This is it, right? Put your feet up. Let's just go
Sarah Amidon: Done. Let's go. Sign me up.
Amanda: to Sardinia. We just go to Greece are we going to Greece? Let's just like put our feet up. Sometimes that life is they know up they know a thing or two, a thing or two. So anyway, all that about the chapter you that we we co authored with three colleagues actually. but real quickly, you are Finally it had this space in your schedule. That monkey's off your back and no, it was a good monkey. It was a good it was a good monkey. you are very graciously testing something called precision performance intelligence. It's a tool that we're looking at to optimize sports performance using genomics. Do you wanna talk about it a little tiny bit, Sarah? I created yeah, I know. Yeah, I know. I just like
Sarah Amidon: that you created. So don't don't leave that part out. Amanda, Amanda's like this closet, like I don't know.
Amanda: I'm a coda.
Sarah Amidon: She's a tech tech scientist. Like you you you yes, she's reading, interpreting, and all the things, but like then she can work with, you know, AI and create algorithms and all that. I'm like, I don't know how to do any of that stuff. I can I can work in the back office and upload all of our podcast stuff and edit it and everything. And she's like, I don't know how to do that.
Amanda: I don't know I s the code stuff I know, so yeah. so I've worked a number of tools, but this one is very specific to sports performance, because you know we're both feel very strongly that the the the entire field is lacking this amazing insight that genomics brings, which is of course your your work. I just created a tool that Sarah and his two other great sports nutritionists are testing this, but you're the lead. so do you wanna so so we're testing that, yeah.
Sarah Amidon: Yeah. Yeah. So I got to play with it yesterday and was sending Amanda updates. I'm like, okay, we can edit this. Is it possible to do this? So it's kind of highlighting the parts of your genetics. And we're also inputting like your injuries, you know, what injuries have you had? And it's calculating, you know, what to pay attention to most. Like, is it your sleep? Is it the, you know, oxidative stress side? And how do we address that nutritionally? How do we address that lifestyle wise? and supplement wise. And so it's really helpful to have that kind of report. I'm already considering like, hey, this might be a helpful adjunct for the genomic edge program, to be able to just input someone's genotype for all of the genes I have access to, and then potentially hand them a report alongside if they also wanted to do the workbook on their own or working with me one on one. You can, you know, get some insights from Amanda's brilliant brain. with similar algorithms. So
Amanda: I can build the algorithms, but no, I mean it does it's very useful on the front end for practitioners or especially practitioners I sort of work with really elite training teams. It is for elite minds for all athletes, but we're particularly interested in teams, of course. But what I love about it is we can also account for adjusting to altitude. Who's doing that? You know, if you're in a s a team sport. Or certain sports, you are competing at all levels, sea level to altitude. How long does it take for you to adjust to altitude? What can you do? That's not work I even know, but I can read the genetics in a concussion protocol piece. yeah, there's a lot of the epigenetic pieces. But I think what was interesting, Sarah, was to be able to input this injury history because we can see that in genes, or we know how to adapt. You know, there'll be a training output how to adapt that. all the fueling pieces. There's just so many pieces. So it's a lot of testing, a lot of jigging it, jiggling around these genes, making sure the outputs are correct. But the output is different because nutritionally it is absolutely aligned with how you're built, what your training load is and how you are built. Nobody's done that. So if
Sarah Amidon: Yeah.
Amanda: you are an athlete, please get on Sarah's wait list because this is the difference. Here's
Sarah Amidon: Yeah. And if you're a sports dietitian, I think Amanda and I already, you know, kicking the tires on having a workshop to incorporate the genomic edge insights that I've already built and then incorporate her software piece so that you're not feeling the tidal wave of trying to learn all of this biochemistry, but you'll have a tool in order to help you implement it with your own athletes and teams. Cause I'm only one person.
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah Amidon: I can only read so many athlete reports. but ideally I want to continue to train sports dietitians, strength and conditioning coaches, the whole medical team
Amanda: Exactly.
Sarah Amidon: and and interdisciplinary care is the key there. but you also built another tool, Amanda, that is coming. Well, you have a she's just in the whipping things up.
Amanda: yeah, just another one. Yeah. I yeah, yeah. There are two quick mentions. So I so SNP Kitchen, SNP. that's the gene variants we look at. So I did a soft launch of Snip Kitchen. It's actually open to there's just a few people peeking at it right now, but go over to Snip Kitchen if you can't find it. It's on my website. SNP is a gene variant. That's why I called it that. And you'll see that there are going to be a number of tools coming out. They're designed directly for you as the listener. Obviously, practitioners, anyone can use them, but they really are designed to take the complex science that Sarah and I look at and translate it into food you can use. I mean, that's what it is. You don't need any knowledge in genomics. You can buy the tool you're interested in. I'm interested in methylation. I'm interested in focus. I've got migraines. I perfectly set purposely segmented the tools. So you don't get overwhelmed. You can learn from your own genomic report. you can see a practitioner when you need to see one. We have a network. but yeah, so get your name on the wait list. So there's a number of those tools coming out. The best deal, Sarah, I love this. I don't know where I came up with this. You can buy a kitchen pass. So that means as we drop all any of the tools, because we're not going to release them all at the same time, you got your kitchen pass. So you automatically get that tool in your library. Yay! And of course.
Sarah Amidon: So you get you get access to Amanda's cookie jar.
Amanda: Yeah, my yeah, that's right. My cookie jar, one cookie at a time. And you know, you can use any report in the world. You know, it it's built. So it's not, well, I've only got this company's report, that company's report. It's designed so that pretty much not all companies use it report on the same genes at all, but there's a co there's a collective kind of bucket of genes every company will report on because that's a science. That's the known science. So all you need is four genes and you can calculate the best food. that you need for your unique makeup. And that's really what we're doing, Sarah, in the end is like how are you going to organize your environment? What food do your genes need to be intelligent for you? So that's what those tools do. And they get you out of the supplement race and into the food base, which is really what your body responds to. Supplements act like pharmac pharmaceuticals. If you choose the wrong one or you have too many. So period. So that's Snip Kitchen. And then hey,
Sarah Amidon: No.
Amanda: we got it, we gotta get on with our talking about all the stuff we're doing. We but we better get on with what we're supposed to be talking about. But yeah, yeah, and I think you know, my mobility code, go check that out too. Darryl Frook in Ireland and I just launched kind of very just opened the door to some of his brilliant work in human cemetery. so we're we're pairing DNA with rehabilitation. so there's a lovely webinar we did. just sign up. listening to that webinar and we have another one. I'm so excited, Sarah. It's called Are Your Bones Getting the Message? Think about that. Yeah. Okay.
Sarah Amidon: Ooh. Yeah.
Amanda: And it's a it's about signaling to bones. And of course we talk about movement and we talk about, you know, what do we know from the DNA and pairing those together? But how you move, how you load right mechanically is really important to your bones. And this, you know, just lifting weights is great. But lifting weights when you're past you know this yourself if you You if you your feet turn out, a certain one foot turns out, one doesn't, one hip's higher than the other, or you know, you're just lopsided. It just changes you mechanically. And so that's what we're looking at. Awesome. Anything else we forgot, Sarah?
Sarah Amidon: Yep. So good. I'm just excited to go to Greece with you in October. So for Awaken, yeah. That's gonna be awesome.
Amanda: my god, yes. awaken, I've got about awaken. Yes, we have one spot left for Awaken. If you are curious about the science that Sarah and I talk about, Awaken is this beautiful experience set in the Peloponnese in Greece, with my partner in that space, Shannon Lemantier. And we are pairing your epigenetics with you. And what does that mean? It's built around the the whole program is really built about understanding your biological age and what that is. You're like, so what? Who cares about that? What is amazing about it? And we're actually looking at your tests on on Monday, sir. Yeah, you haven't even seen
Sarah Amidon: Yeah.
Amanda: yours yet. I've seen your husband's. Very, very interesting, super amazing. But biological age really is a rear view look look at how your body, your DNA has responded to your life. thus far. So if you're 40, we have 40 years of the imprint of the environment you've been exposed to. Positive, negative, what you eat, you know, whether you've been supposed, you know, living through wildfires like we are this year. How, what does that imprint look like on your body? What is your body picked up? Where is it picked it up? And how can we optimize all the systems? So how's your, you know, if you've got some wear on a tire in your immune system, we can see it. And then we know exactly how to kind of restore that signature. So that is amazing. We have one spot. One spot opened up. If anyone wants to single person. Or a or a potnik. Yeah. It's a room.
Sarah Amidon: Either for a single person or a partner. Partner room. Yeah. It's a one room is left. Yeah. So either a partner or spouse or whatever or friend or a single
Amanda: Hurry, hurry.
Sarah Amidon: single person. Yeah. You can come hang out with Amanda and I October third through tenth in Greece. Do it.
Amanda: Yeah, yeah, super, super, super exciting. And most of it isn't non science. It is about putting you in an environment, a changing environment so you can really experience the epit you know, the epigenetics of the Mediterranean. How cool is that? I know.
Sarah Amidon: So excited. And then you're going back to Portugal next year. So the wait list has opened to sign up for the wait list.
Amanda: Next year. my gosh, you're so excited.
Sarah Amidon: I I get your email. I read your newsletter. Yep. So next
Amanda: That's true. I forget what goes out, Sarah, but yeah. So every
Sarah Amidon: October, you're going back to Portugal. And Portugal
Amanda: Words to come.
Sarah Amidon: is like so underrated. Like I can't wait to go back and take my kids and my family. So
Amanda: It's pretty amazing. so you know, okay, we've had a tw you know, a long dialogue here, all things we're doing, but what what we're doing, everything that we do in Mall CNA, you know, it's it's like the center to our work, however we're approaching it. so lots of opportunities to unpack you through what Sarah and I are doing. But I I really have to kind of say if you're an athlete or you're in sports, you need to talk to Sarah. And Yeah. She's she's testing the software. She might learn some stuff. Not immediately,
Sarah Amidon: Yeah.
Amanda: right? But I'm telling you, this is a passport. Let's get on with this podcast, Sarah, because you got a hard. All right.
Sarah Amidon: Let's get on with the show.
Amanda: So we are talking about hormones. And you know, hormones don't work in isolation. They work in systems. But I think, you know, one of the dialogues that comes up, Sarah, particularly I think, well, males is very trending right now. We'll get to that. But hormones are often discussed as to whether they're high or low, right? Okay, I have dominance of this or I'm low in that or I don't have any progesterone or I need a testosterone shot or something. so sometimes we know that the production is truly low and is an appropriate assessment, diagnosis, and treatment. But and I love this and I'm reading this so so we don't miss a statement. But a hormone can also be present and still struggle. to deliver its message. So that's what we want to unpack. So we know that hormones are communicators, but when we're working at the level we are with DNA and how hormones translate, what we realize it's a bigger question than high and low. It's a question of production, conversion, transportation. Can it get to where it needs to go? When it gets it can be delivered, like did the UPS person actually put the package on your your porch, you know, on your front step. Can it be heard?
Sarah Amidon: Mm.
Amanda: Right? Can somebody pick up that package and bring it into the house? Can it be acted upon? And really importantly, can it be cleared? So the hormone conversation isn't about high or low. High or low can be a manifestation of that supply chain, right? And that's what we want to unpack. And so that's what we can often see in genomics and in conversation with an individual. So where do you any comments on that, Sarah, before we jump in and start like unpacking some examples? Any thoughts from you?
Sarah Amidon: I think so far I think this series and maybe the whole podcast in general, I love that every topic is like it's not as simple as you think it is. You know, and especially with hormones, we talked about it with cholesterol last time, but it's not as simple as you mentioned. Like it's not as simple as high or low, but where is you know, I like to call it a series of speed bumps. And our enzymes are s our SNPs
Amanda: yeah, that's yeah.
Sarah Amidon: are like speed bumps, right? If we've got a variant in The methylation cycle, that's a speed bump. That's something that is keeping or gumming up, you know, a pathway. Same thing with these hormones where we gotta go from start to finish and all the little steps in between. but yeah, it's not as simple as high and low. We we wanna make sure we have enough, but not too much. You know, it's very Goldilocks and the three bears. Not too high, not too low, but right, just right. but there's so many. But there's so many epigenetic factors that impact if it you know, that porridge is too hot, too cold, or just right. Or
Amanda: That's true.
Sarah Amidon: the s the size of the bed. Is it too big, too small, or just right? the chair, you know, just
Amanda: I could be walking around thinking of the three bears for the rest of the
Sarah Amidon: We got a Goldilocks situation here and it no it's no different for hormones. so yeah.
Amanda: Now that's true. That's true. So, so let's kind of unpack hormones a little bit. Now you're supposed to introduce this section, but I'm gonna jump in. We may as well have fun here. So what we wanted to do before we kind of go into this supply chain production, transportation, whatever, because this is where understanding genomics is so useful to know where things are stuck. You got over the first two speed bumps, but somebody forgot the third speed bump. We need him in my neighborhood, by the way, Sarah. go and play golf or whatever they're doing here. Yeah, that's true. No, we are
Sarah Amidon: We just have potholes in Indiana, so we don't have speed bumps, we have potholes.
Amanda: so hormones, they play specific roles in the body. and we kind of looked at a number of different roles and then highlighted. Well let's talk about a few of these because they can work s individually to impact certain systems, but a lot of times they overlap. So Why don't you lead with you know, what what an area that you want to chit chat about, like where hormones are playing a role for you.
Sarah Amidon: Yeah, I decided to Amanda gave us a couple couple options here. And I went right for, well, how does this impact the body? Because sports performance is my gig. So just the ways in which testosterone, estrogen, growth hormone, and IgF1, a calcitriol, which has a a role with vitamin D. But essentially these hormones help to stimulate muscle growth, bone formation, remodeling. and if we're low in any of these hormones, too high or too low, that can impact how our bodies remodel and impact our pr sports performance. And for us masters athletes, especially female athletes, but also declining testosterone for men as they age too, or under certain variables and circumstances. I'm sure we'll discuss a little bit more later. but those declining hormones as we age can increase the risk for bone fractures. Poor tissue remodeling, and then we're up a creek without a paddle. So and then recovery and repair, same thing. Those those hormones also have a role with protein synthesis, cellular repair during sleep can stimulate IgF-1 release to build build repair, build and repair muscle with our growth hormone. estrogen also regulates inflammation, including histamine. So collagen production for the skin. Connective tissue, wound healing can diminish in postmenopausal women for this very reason. So the estrogen, which is why hormone replacement therapy has become part of the discussion more recently that can enhance wound healing by up upregulating veg F. So women who have a surgery like a knee replacement, a hip replacement, or any other kind of orthopedic situation, just realize it's going to take you longer to recover. if your hormones are declining. and I'm finding that true for myself. I just played grass triples last weekend. I'm having meniscus, you know, thinning as I age from 35 years of high impact sports, combined with my own autoimmunity. And it's more challenging for my body to recover and I have to be more mindful of that. I can't push as hard, but I have to be way more mindful of my nutrition, of my recovery tactics. So and same thing for thyroid hormones, those are involved in cellular metabolism and energy production and it directs where that energy is going and how we make our ATP our our body's energy currency. And excess cortisol with our high stress, that's gonna encourage the breakdown of those tissues. And so I think our high stress environment really is tanking our hormones. And maybe you can speak more to that when we're talking about metabolism, Amanda.
Amanda: Yeah, well you already kind of kind of gave a a nod to thyroid hormones and we're gonna kinda unpack your history, your journey with thyroid. That's n not something a journey I've been on, so I'm so empathetic that when the thyroid is disrupted, it's its implications are so far reaching, all the way down to making ATP, which is energy, right? So the thyroid hormone, so T3 specifically, so you even have to think about. Here's a perfect example. So we're talking about metabolism. So extracting energy so the body can make its metabolizing energy, excuse me, or metabolizing food so that your body can generate ATP. And you know, food doesn't just line up outside a door and say, okay, I'm ready now, right? It has to have to go through an extensive, what we call biotransformation process. And there's two hormones. That are instrumental to initiating this process. And one of them is T3. So
Sarah Amidon: Hm.
Amanda: which is like, so what is it like the end result of thyroid metabolism? What we're trying to do is produce T3. T3 is like the poke at the mitochondria to say, okay, we're ready either to produce energy, produce ATP, or even more importantly, to multiply or produce more and more mitochondria. That's called biogenesis. So think about that when you lose the efficiency of your thyroid for whatever reason it is, and you remove, reduce, lose two, three production, you are losing the an ignition switch, a vital ignition switch. So, and of course, T the thyroid hormone is also instrumental in the immune system to phagocytosis, eating things, to chemotaxis, moving immune cells where they need to go and initiating a whole other, you know, sort of flow of immune cell production, which we don't need to get into today because that's its own like thank goodness we didn't have to write a chapter on this, Sarah. Like the immune except
Sarah Amidon: Ha ha.
Amanda: Stacey to write that. But but what's interesting is guess what? And you know this because you're probably starting to feel it or any woman that starts to go through a life change and you all will. Sorry, it's part of the process and men, you're not off the hook either. But estrogen. has that same strike to the, you know, so it's like striking a match. It will do the same thing. It initiates oxidative phosphorylation or initiating ATP production. Think about that. And guess what? Estrogen in the thyroid, estrogen actually initiates, believe it or not, thyroid hormone synthesis. So it sends pulses to the pituitary excuse me, the hypothalamus talks of paturity, that then says, hey, produce TSH. TSH is then like exported, right? Or that to the tissues. I think I've got this right, but it is integral to the production of T4 and T3. So think about that. As women potentially lose estrogen, and men can too, right? Depends on your testosterone level, potentially, then if you lose estrogen, the pulse from estrogen to tell, you know, the brain to initiate thyro production, can you see how you can end up with an energy slump? You're losing two pulses or pulsating signals into the mitochondria to produce energy. Amazing.
Sarah Amidon: Yeah, that's incredible. And I think just from a ten thousand foot view, these hormones are anabolic. You know, they they help build up. and without them, any one of them, we can something it could be as a whole metabolism, but like something becomes catabolic, it's gonna break down. And so if we're not providing the nutritional resources or we're not disrupting whatever it is that's causing the breakdown. You know, we're just gonna continue to be catabolic. And sadly, I'm one of those people. It's it's you know, having having Hashimoto's is not the problem. it's having Epstein bar and Lyme and the inflammation that contributes to all of the downstream of the metabolism of that, which is why root cause analysis is so important because if we're just treating If we're just treating PCOS, we're just treating Hashimoto's
Amanda: Mm-hmm.
Sarah Amidon: with these hormones, but we're not understanding what is it that's stealing from that.
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah Amidon: but to have a chronic infection all the time that's stealing my iron, giving iron is not going to solve that problem. It's just going to add more oxidation that is going to continue the catabolic state that I'm in. So I'm not just giving thyroid hormone and and hoping for the best, I have to manage my stress so that I don't flare my Epstein bar, which
Amanda: Mm.
Sarah Amidon: then is stealing my iron. And I live with an iron of like eight or ferritin of like eight to ten. And I feel pretty good. But like yeah. That's been my normal for quite some time. Yeah. Like my iron. Mm-hmm.
Amanda: Eight to ten? What's normal, Sarah? I mean, I know. But what is what is population normal foriton? It's much, much higher than that. I mean that's a a lot higher, yes.
Sarah Amidon: Mm-hmm. Your ferritin should be higher. And so I'm not I'm not surprised my body's breaking down. And but we need iron for estrogen and thyroid function too. And so and serotonin,
Amanda: And serotonin production and yeah.
Sarah Amidon: yep. So it's it's never just one thing, but like trying to manage so many things all at once.
Amanda: I I'm curious because we're gonna look at your epigenetics next week. I'm gonna be curious to see if we can find
Sarah Amidon: Yeah.
Amanda: some imprinting there. you know, because you're you are a collection of everything you've been exposed to. Where did that come from? yeah, and and so the thyroid is controlling. It's like thyroid central, but what is just so amazing is this interactive role, the circuitous role or communication, if you will. Maybe if it's not direct between estrogen and the thyroid, and estrogen itself is I I think I was talking to one of our colleagues this morning. I said, Estrogen is life. I remember you saying to me once, this conversation about vaccines is a cross, I'm gonna die on. And I'm like, you know what? This conversation about estrogen is a cross I will die on. Because,
Sarah Amidon: Sure.
Amanda: you know, it's like estrogen modulates the immune system too. Can you see what we're talking about? There is all this cross-communication. It activates I L ten, which is this beautiful kind of break
Sarah Amidon: Yeah.
Amanda: or on on on the immune system, helps modulate. That's a very simplistic explanation, but it keeps mast cells at bay, right? It keeps the endothelium or mucus membranes moist and and healthy. So gosh, you can there's so much I see in epigenetics on my, you know, when you look a population based on my, yeah. Women at this age, I'm seeing these correlations between their different systems. Like, what's causing that? estrogen, you know, and you you start to see these huge markets. But, you know, we also so I was talking about metabolism, but I can't let this one slip without talking about my favorite topic, which is the role of these hormones in mental health. And so estrogen, okay, it helps signal the synthesis of serotonin, but it's also gosh, I see this all the time now. Midlife women or younger women with PMDD, which is just so, so hard. That is a very hard condition to live with premenstrual dys dysphoria. It's it's really challenging. It's really that issue is more neurotransmitter issue. That is accentuated or made problematic by our menstrual cycles, by hormones changing or fluctuating or being inefficient in the in the menstrual cycle. But, you know, estrogen, this is what's showing up to me with midlife women who suddenly feel they're a different person. They are, because depending on your genetics, estrogen is integral to keeping serotonin in the synaptic gap so that it can talk. To the serotonin receptors. And if you can't hear serotonin, you're going to be down in the dumps. You know, you're going to have developed constipation. Your immune system is suddenly say, Well, something's missing. Where's where's the peacekeeper in the immune system is suddenly missing? So estrogen helps deeply modulate the serotonin signal, whether it can be heard, whether it's retracted, how loud it is. So this is what women go through. In midlife, when they start to lose estrogen, they lose that ability to turn up the hearing aid, if you will, in your receptors. and again, depending on what I'm seeing in serotonin, those serotonin receptors, I know what that woman's gonna feel like, what she's going through. And it could be the same for men too. you know, estrogen is not benign in men. It's just not as loud, if you will, as it is in us women, obviously. So so I couldn't
Sarah Amidon: Yeah.
Amanda: not talk about how. Critical. they're ho these these hormones are. That's a sex hormone that you don't think about. it works in the brain. It's is nothing to do with fertility. It has to do something in mood stabilization and how good you feel
Sarah Amidon: Yeah.
Amanda: about the world.
Sarah Amidon: Yeah. Some of the PMDD cases I've seen when I've run neur neurotransmitters, serotonin is so high. It's through the roof high. And so, you know, maybe not to the degree of serotonin syndrome. If you go Google, you know what that is, but they want to just crawl out of their skin like just it's it's too much.
Amanda: And if the if the guesswork has been done on an SSRI and you get it wrong, whoop, you just orbited someone because a lot of time what I'm seeing, Sarah, is the signal can't be heard. And so you have to be so careful how you turn up that serotonin signal, which we can do with food and things like saffron, maybe lion's mane. So we're really careful. And it's like a day-by-day. So yeah, yeah, we have to be super careful. So, all right, so I'll leave the next one and we'll jump over to you. So we talked about those are different kind of ways we're looking at how hormones work and how they interact with each other. But I mentioned a journey, right? I've talked about the hormones, it's not just whether high or low, this is journey, production, conversion, how it gets transportation, how it gets delivered. There's a UPS person, whether the receptor can hear it, like that's you picking the package up off the the doorstep. And whether we can get rid of it after it's done its job or it wasn't needed. So I guess the first question is really around production, low production. We know it can occur what in menopause, thyroid, we talked about, reproductive dysfunction, prolonged underfueling. That's what you were talking about, illness or reduced gland function. So let's go back. You had talked about overtraining or or underfueling or over trailing. You kind of gave that example in athletes. You wanna go a little bit deeper into that, you know, the if whether they're using they can't produce enough or they're using too much that the production is is stalled.
Sarah Amidon: Yeah, the from the sports nutrition side, we identified this acronym RED S or REDS, relative energy deficiency in sport. I kind of made a joke one during one of our podcasts a few a few back about like, well, I think we've got relative energy deficiency in midlife, you know, like where we're highly stressed, underfueling, skipping meals, and you know, expecting the body to still function and then we're living off of cortisol. But yeah, the underfueling piece, and then we see changes in our, you know, cycles for women in particular, but poor muscle repair. We start having, you know, anemia and iron dysregulation. and then things just are not repairing and injuries are gonna show up. So the female athlete triad, you can look all that stuff up, but it's It's very well known and part of kind of the disordered eating space when it gets to a degree that we start noticing it with with our sports performance. So and then overtraining largely just relates to we've used all of our fuel and we still need to keep eating more. And I know as a former division one athlete in my freshman year, if I was not literally putting something in my mouth like all day long, I was I was not gaining weight. I was n I was losing weight. it's just Your body remembers how much fuel it needs. And so to rev it back up, you know, anytime you have a a high performance day or two a days, or you're just training for a few hours each day, you have to fuel and fuel a lot. Just whatever you think that you're eating, it's probably still not enough at that level. So yeah, we gotta pay attention to to our fueling needs and our fueling timing for sure.
Amanda: And that's an interesting point because I'm thinking as you're talking about and then sort of the midlife journey that we're learning so much about the protein needs of midlife women, whether you're active, you know, you're you're a competitive athlete or not, your protein needs do go up because the signaling is less efficient, right? That's that's not my world, but just learning that from Stacey Sims that literally how our muscles fire is different. Like as an It's probably more your lot more your world, but that you have to keep that protein signal strong, so that you can remain anabolic, not catabolic, I thought was so interesting.
Sarah Amidon: Yeah, I was just reading a paper last night because I'm working on the IFNA module for sports nutrition and human performance. but essentially you can utilize like pre-bedtime protein and it will increase muscle protein synthesis while you eat without like disrupting your like the research was suggesting, it doesn't disrupt your sleep. You're still hungry in the morning like normal. Like it doesn't really Change much about that, but it was increasing for 40 grams like pre-sleep, which I know is a lot for some people. but it was increasing muscle protein synthesis by 22%. and when combining it with evening resistance exercise, it increased 30 grams of protein resistance exercise bedtime, you know. Resistance exercise, then protein, you know, recovery increased it by 37% muscle protein synthesis. So this is just off the top of my head that I was remembering this paper that I was reading through last night. But so I think, you know, to reduce muscle loss as we're aging, think about, you know, encouraging for our our aging populations and those who want to increase muscle mass is have that protein snack. you know, before bed, and that's not going to impact your blood sugar and might actually help you sleep better because we're encouraging that serotonin pathway, right? to make melatonin.
Amanda: True.
Sarah Amidon: but also we you may not have your blood sugar dropping in the middle of the night, which when people wake up, you know, in the middle of the night, sometimes it's a blood sugar tanking and you're waking up and
Amanda: Mm-hmm. yes.
Sarah Amidon: you're like, I had to pee. But did you really have to pee? Or was it that your blood sugar dropped and you're like, well, while I'm awake, I'm gonna go to the bath.
Amanda: No, that's an interesting point. Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah Amidon: Right. So, so some interesting little, you know, modifications you could make to incorporate a pre pre sleep protein intake.
Amanda: That's an interesting point. because we know, you know, that blood sugars will wake you up, but also pay attention to the time you wake up. Do you wake up at the same time every night? And because if you are, it probably I think, and I've noticed that in myself, that could be a blood sugar issue. And if you are drinking alcohol in the evening or even dinner time, that And and you are waking up the same time every night, that is probably blood sugar. I I learned that many, many years ago, like that intersection. So it's a great point. I think too, suff protein sufficiency to build, so it's anabolics, use anabolically to repair or build muscle, skeletal muscle, which is the side of the my most mitochondria, right? That's that's where we get the most, is that correct, building or the most density of mitochondria will be in skeletal muscle, or that's
Sarah Amidon: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: where we also can modulate blood sugar, blood glucose. it's more yes. So anyway, that we digress it's just you were talking about that. I'm like, my gosh, this this this this research is amazing that's coming out. And a lot of it finally about big women and not little men. I mean, you know
Sarah Amidon: Yeah.
Amanda: women and not little men, we are we are who we are, right? So Yeah, no, that's super, super interesting. And then, you know, the so we're talking about production. What I see, we mentioned PMDD, but I also see it as women go into menopause, perimenopause. And depending on your genetics, some women produce pregnant pregnant not pregnisone, progesterone a lot more efficiently than others. And these are the women as they go into menopause, they suddenly have these huge changes in sleep. And as soon as we can restore the progesterone, but it's not with every woman. So the sleep returns, but it's also really what it is is pret progesterone, the end of the run is allo P and allo P is what activates the the GABA receptor and the GABA is your your peaceful hormone, like it's the offset from glutamate which is excitatory. So you now have that balance back and you can be at peace. But in PMDD, I don't know what you've seen, you've seen the serotonin really high, but oftentimes progesterone is the issue. It can't match the estrogen. And so, you know, really understanding where these hormones are, if you're producing them, if you're detoxifying them, is so critical. And I think that's where psychomapping is so useful for these women. to really understanding what's happening on what day, so that when if you are working with an OBGY and hopefully you are somebody who's can prescribe hormones, we know what we're prescribing. We know what is being prescribed. it's a difficult journey, but that's a perfect example of, you know, different hormones being out of balance and how that manifests in the menstrual cycle, it is not easy. And I'm seeing that more and more, Sarah. It's like, you know, it's Very difficult for young women. they definitely need us by their sides, a really good team by their sides,
Sarah Amidon: yeah.
Amanda: including a really good health coach to keep the conversation moving forward. So yeah, so that's the production piece. Can you produce these hormones? Not about high or low. If you don't produce them, they could be high or low. So that's it. Those are good examples. All right.
Sarah Amidon: The conversion piece. So is the hormone being changed into the form the body needs? And so I kind of touched on this already a little bit, but thyroid hormone is the perfect example of that. So we have T4 that needs to convert to T3. Under stress conditions or inflammation, it can convert to reverse T3. And so we kind of think of that as like the gas is T3, the break is reverse T3. And so there was a point too. where I'm taking T4 and T3 bioidentical hormone, thyroid hormones. but I would take that first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, and then I would all of a sudden have anxiety that had nothing to do with what was going on in my situation. I didn't have anything going on that day, like I wasn't feeling stressed. And I can usually recognize that I'm like, gosh, why do I feel so anxious? But when I wasn't taking it, I didn't feel that. And so what do we do with that? So we actually moved me over to just a T three only for now. And that's helped a lot with just managing my thyroid and not having to convert that into that reverse T three. So we took the the breakout completely. didn't allow the T four to convert to reverse T three. We're just doing T three only. Mm-hmm.
Amanda: I see. So it was like jumping over the T three and converting directly to the reverse T three. So you basically weren't getting any signal from the T three. How did you how did they measure that? By just like measuring like T S H and T four and reverse T three?
Sarah Amidon: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Just doing that full thyroid panel. And I think this is just a shout out to anyone who has had TSH only tested. Like I've largely never had my TSH out of the normal range, like ever. And so that's a late symptom for you. You know, like ideally kind of one to two point five your TSH should be at. And if it's if it's above 2.5 and creeping into three, into four, like Have your antibodies tested, like we should be doing a full thyroid panel, which includes TSH, T3, reverse T3, T4, and the two types of thyroid antibodies. And so we're not addressing Hashimoto's early enough just because your TSH is in the normal range, but you feel like garbage, like Just like hormone replacement therapy for estrogen, like why are we just sending women home who are like, sorry, your labs are normal, have a nice day and your hair's falling out, you can't sleep, you're constipated, you're cold, like you know, and you're putting on weight. Yep. It's
Amanda: You're pull and you're putting on weight. Maybe. Because remember what T three does. It's an immune modulator and it stimulates ATP production basically. You know, biogenesis. Good grief. So how did the when did you ended up with elevated antibodies, right? Your T PO So how did
Sarah Amidon: Mm-hmm. And I've had those since two thousand at least twenty thirteen, which can definitely contributed to infertility for us. I don't know how long that had been going on before then, but it was like fatigue and dry skin
Amanda: yeah.
Sarah Amidon: and, you know, that kind of thing. So
Amanda: So how did they treat the antibodies then? People may be curious. I mean
Sarah Amidon: I mean, initially going gluten free was huge. So removing some of that inflammation, yeah,
Amanda: Removing the yeah.
Sarah Amidon: was very helpful. My antibodies have been really stable for a long time. They've pretty low, like they're under a hundred. So they're not I there are definitely people whose antibodies are in the the hundreds, maybe even the thousands.
Amanda: I yeah, I have one that's four hundred right now. So I was I was curious, you know, how you know, what what is the standard treatment? We have people listening so yeah, you know, my
Sarah Amidon: Ya. New
Amanda: I've got these antibodies through the roof and I'm I don't know what I'm supposed to do with them.
Sarah Amidon: Yeah. And well, part of it too, I'm married to a vegetarian. Bless him. Love him. Not the best diet for me. I love vegetables and I love eating vegetarian, but I definitely needed more protein, first of all. Like just making sure I'm getting enough protein. B vitamins were huge supporting methylation. Managing my stress is a big, big part of that. And fatigue has always been my tell. So like if fatigue's creeping in, it's like Sarah, go back to your basics, your foundations, you got to do your stress management. So
Amanda: So you basically you are what you're saying is manage the environment that the thyroid is is reacting to. That's just a signal. And it could be an immune,
Sarah Amidon: Yep. Yep. Absolutely.
Amanda: like you said, could be gluten dairy for some people. It could have nothing to do with diet. Could just
Sarah Amidon: Yeah.
Amanda: be sheer demand. Is that what you're saying too?
Sarah Amidon: Yeah, I would also say reverse osmosis your water. getting getting
Amanda: mm-hmm.
Sarah Amidon: garbage out of your water. And in Indiana in particular, or in the Indianapolis area, we have high arsenic. so that can definitely do a number on your thyroid, but adding fluoride can impact and sort of act like a bully with the iodine that's needed for your thyroid. So yeah,
Amanda: Hello.
Sarah Amidon: yeah. use it on your teeth, not great for ingestion. I'm just gonna say it. so
Amanda: You see on your team. Of course, that is co it depending on what country in like in Europe we don't add fluoride to our water. Well, I'll speak to the UK, but I think it's pretty pretty wide. Somebody may come back and say, No, you're wrong there. But no, that's interesting. but it's interesting because you can't produce T four without it, but the diode the DiO two gene encodes the enzyme and it's a diodinase enzyme. So actually removing the iodine molecule. To make T three. So sometimes that I see that SNP a lot, but usually like it's working at about ninety, ninety five percent. I don't see it as being high impact a lot, do you, Sarah? I mean it's Yeah, yeah, yeah. You, but
Sarah Amidon: Mine's homozygous, so you tell me.
Amanda: you're reading hundreds of reports like me. When I'm looking, I'm thinking back. I
Sarah Amidon: maybe five to ten percent I might see it. It's not a lot.
Amanda: Right, exactly. So that the point reason I'm saying that is we have this epidemic of hypothyroidism. It is not necessarily your genetics, it is your environment. And I'm gonna just add to that, Sarah, you just made the point about arsenic. when you're looking at epigenetics epigenetic reports, you are able to see the impact of the environment one hundred percent. I'm telling you everyone, you are carrying credit card full of plastic. And do not underestimate what Sarah said. Lead, arsenic, those heavy metals, which if you live in a city, you know, if you're living next to a highway, if you're living next to a golf course like I am, I'm not on it. I'm next to it. the drift from those chemicals, the drift from car exhaust, you're carrying it. You are carrying it, you're carrying it, you're carrying it, you're carrying it. I think that. Is probably more a cause of hypothyroidism than anything else. It's junk to your body and it harnesses
Sarah Amidon: Strains detoxification. It it just emphasizes biotransformation and detoxification. End of story. We can close up shop now. The podcast is over. Like if you're not supporting detoxification, you're gonna die. Like
Amanda: and I'm telling you epigenetically, it is the biggest signature I am seeing.
Sarah Amidon: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: It is it it is what did I say recently? The in in England we say, I'm gob smacked. So gob is your math, right?
Sarah Amidon: Yeah.
Amanda: You get smacked in your gob. I'm like, God so after I left England, this word came up, and I'm like, it's kind of graphic, but it's true. I mean, I am telling you the environment is the thing that flares the most in your rear view mirror. And these heavy metals also deeply impact that Krebs cycle, deeply impact energy production. And if you can't produce energy, you make fat. All right. It just is if you reverse the Krebs, there's a cancer component, of course. but you induce fatty acid synthesis. So there you go. So now we blame it on the thyroid, which is reacting to the environment, but your body says, okay, I'm going to reverse the its natural direction. Say, well, I got to put this stuff somewhere. And when you generate you build adiposity or fat tissues, the heavy metals love to hide in there too, right? I mean in a story that's it Sarah. We we can end the podcast today. Now
Sarah Amidon: Yeah, they do. Yeah, and losing and losing
Amanda: we're done. But it's just
Sarah Amidon: Well, and and that's why losing weight quickly is a terrible idea. Don't do it. Like losing weight fast because you're releasing all that toxic burden into your bloodstream. Your liver's gotta flush it through and you gotta your lymphatic system has to be functioning. So we have to make sure we take out, you know, we take out the drain first before we, you know, just start putting a bunch of stuff in or trying to lose a bunch of weight really, really quickly, because you gotta still metabolize all that fat tissue. So
Amanda: And you know, one of the things, because you and I do this and a big believers in moving the lymph system. So honestly, I think it's a thing I recommend to most clients now. Even if you're struggling with weight, struggling with motivation, you can get up in the morning or some point in the day and just do simple lymphatic movement. It you know, it really is that sys easy to do. I think I'm just gonna do a video, but I send videos to people and say, you know, just look. Go on YouTube and say five minute chigong or chigong and lymph. You can move yourself in five minutes and you'll do more to start that drainage of the drain than anything else. Like do it. Like you like if you don't move or you don't want to move, you can kind of do what's the one like this where you I can't I'm sitting down, but or the one where you're doing, you know, it's a sideways like body swing or just swinging your arms. to open up, get your lymph like your lymph nodes to move. I'm telling
Sarah Amidon: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: you, we all need it. Right, Sarah? It's not always
Sarah Amidon: We do.
Amanda: about like hitting it until you're drenched in sweat. Okay. All right. So
Sarah Amidon: Exactly.
Amanda: conversion, thyroid is the is the most brilliant. we gotta talk one more about conversion. We got to have the testosterone conversation right here, right now.
Sarah Amidon: Do it, the throw down.
Amanda: The throwdown. Okay, so So trending right now in the United States of America, because we people listen from around the world, our Secretary of Defense announced the other day that all military members, but I think it's just male, Sarah. He did not extend it to females. So that's a big issue because women need testosterone the same way men do. Well, you know, in terms of energy modulation, stimulating bone, so osteo. blastogen, osteoblasts, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. so he said that all military members, I think it was over the age of 30, and I want to say it was male, they're now going to be subject to or must go through mandatory testosterone level testing. Assume they're doing blood, Sarah. At which
Sarah Amidon: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: point, you know, my my my radar went up. We said, really? And what are you gonna do with their low? What are you gonna do there a lot, Sarah? And then we can carry on the conversation.
Sarah Amidon: Of course they're gonna give you steroids in the form of testosterone. Let's talk about steroid
Amanda: Amazing.
Sarah Amidon: doping, which you know, these these are illegal everywhere else. But you know, since we're on the rampage with probably super soldiers and the Department of War, like we're trying to really amp up our soldiers. that's that's a choice.
Amanda: It it well, I mean, the first thing that comes to me is, you know, genetically, because you and I read genetics, some people trend lower, you know, in testosterone and they're perfectly functioning individuals. There's no fertility issues, you know, they they can run their races, they can build muscle, etc. Sometimes I actually see it in my research that lower testosterone has nothing to do, it doesn't impact libido, it impacts immune function. I see autoimmune. Issues, which is super interesting. I went down a deep alley to look at that and it's not really trending, but that's what I'm seeing. But to me, I immediately went to genomics, to testosterone, testosterone, testosterone. Okay, are we looking at sex hormone binding globulin, which you look at a lot with athletes? And that gene has a it has a pretty high SNP rate, if you will. It's I I see it dysfunctional a lot. You do too, right?
Sarah Amidon: Yeah, I would say maybe fifteen to twenty percent. I might see a homeless
Amanda: I see it higher.
Sarah Amidon: Igus. Yeah.
Amanda: yeah, a homozygous heterozygous, which means it's it's it maybe, maybe not. It's yellow. And what does that hormone do? It binds free testosterone
Sarah Amidon: Tossed around.
Amanda: and estrogen. So now what? Now we have a gene that when we see a SNP, it's upregulated, right? It will grab what's passing and sequester it. So now what are you gonna do? So you're not responding to this level? We're gonna give you more.
Sarah Amidon: And that's a di a whole nother epigenetic switch when we could address things that are actually impacting testosterone levels, which it was suggested in one of the articles you sent me that testosterone is decreasing when they're overseas. What are they exposed to when they're, you know, in different locations? Stress is at an all-time high. How is sleep?
Amanda: All time high.
Sarah Amidon: You're missing your family. Like, are you eating well? so all kinds of things that toxic exposure, you know, toxic burn pits. I've lost a patient to that who had some of the best genetics I've ever seen. So
Amanda: I remember that. Yes.
Sarah Amidon: it's addressed
Amanda: So in other words, the environment can be impacting testosterone levels is what you're saying. And
Sarah Amidon: Yep. Caff caffeine will increase S SHBG. So that is a negative. Alcohol will do that. yeah, cortisol.
Amanda: So as fast as we're pumping it in, if we're exposed to these stressors and other inputs like caffeine, you know these are our troops under stress are going to be drinking and smoking. No, I mean, I'm sorry, that's a blanket statement. If it's there and they have that proclivity, they're going to do it because like you said, you're missing family. What are you going to do? You're sitting in a submarine, you're on a boat, you're working night shift or whatever, or a ship, not a boat. Or wherever. I was a military wife for 30 years, so I get it. I know the deployment stuff. I know the op tempo. So so it just bothers me because depending on your genetics, that testosterone has to go somewhere. It has to be detoxified. And it has some choices of pathways, some of which are not benign. It's just like estrogen. There's doors, right? But the other thing is testosterone. So we've talked about an upregulation of a gene that can remove free testosterone from circulation. So what do we do then? Give you more? yeah, and where does that go? But testosterone converts to estrogen. And men too can have higher estrogen levels. We know that. So it's not just women, it's men. So now we have what estrogen-dominant men? I don't mean to be facetious. The question I was asking when I About this and posted is said, Well, who how are they measuring this? And who is looking at how they metabolize us? You know, are we just looking at whether they're more fertile and have bigger muscles? Because isn't that really part of the ego? We don't know. We can guess, but we don't know. yeah, testosterone, just like estrogen low levels can be associated with mental health. So, but using this as a measurement, what are we doing? To understand what they're going to do with this hormone. I just project higher levels, potentially of suicide, mental health issues, aggression, aggression,
Sarah Amidon: Yep.
Amanda: which is going to be a workplace issue and it's going to be family issue. It's going to be a
Sarah Amidon: Mm.
Amanda: bar issue. It's going to be an domestic airline issue, and it's going to be a cancer issue. That's what I see genetically, just because we are looking, we're Rapidly reading patterns and we ask questions. That's my biggest fear. So that was all about conversion, right? Which
Sarah Amidon: Yeah.
Amanda: gets into detoxification, I best. I guess. All right. So I had to bring that up. We'd be curious what you think. People have different views. I think a lot of people, at least in the medical and genomic space, are asking similar questions. I think endocrinologists are also have some pretty big questions, including retired naval, you know, active duty, a military endocrinologist, like, wait a minute here. Where did this come from? All right.
Sarah Amidon: Well, since you're talking about how is this measured, are blood levels the best way to measure hormones or do you look at other methods?
Amanda: Well, you know, one of the things we have to be careful is is our scope of practice, right? and that like hormones, what I will do is send someone out to request those versus, I'll order the hormones. So, you know, that I actually gonna leave more with the practitioner. I'll measure neurotransmitters over hormones. But you know, we'll run a d a Dutch test or there's a beautiful test now from US biotech that one of my colleagues in Ireland told me about that's phenomenal for looking at metabolites. which I've actually just ordered for a client in Hawaii. so we can look at that's urine. I think yeah it's urine or is it both? I'm now I now I can't remember. So I'm used to seeing them in blood and urine, but I think blood is probably a better value. But when you add the genetic component, you have to add that lens to it.
Sarah Amidon: Well, I definitely like to see saliva as well. I think that's a good
Amanda: Yeah, I'll do both, but
Sarah Amidon: yeah. There's multiple ways to look at hormones and it's always interesting to hear the discussion for those who specialize in it and the arguments around, well, that's not the best way to measure it. And, you know, so there's blood, there's urine, there's saliva or some combination. So
Amanda: Yeah, no, exactly. That's why I'm like kind of dancing. It just actually depends on the client and if we can get it ordered. You know, the physician's ordering it anyway. Usually it's they're gonna do blood, but and also I think the tests that are available have shifted over time too. So whereas I would often maybe use precision, is it precision diagnostic? What is that? Used to be the Dutch, whoever they whatever they're called now. Now, there's an some really good different testing that's measuring the same thing, including cycle mapping. So yeah. But if somebody comes to me with a Dutch, I'm fine with that. But I'm kinda shifting. I mean the middle of shifting, that's why I kinda said, You know what? I'm shifting what I'm thinking about that. L I'll come back on that one, but
Sarah Amidon: Thanks for sharing that. so the delivery side of things, can the hormone actually reach the tissue? So they through our they go through our
Amanda: Wow, that's yeah.
Sarah Amidon: circulation. We've got blood flow and vascular health, tissue per perfusion, inflammation. those can all impact our hormones. And the bloodstream is not simply where hormones are measured, but it's part of the delivery system. So why
Amanda: yeah.
Sarah Amidon: why should we consider circulation in the Hormone conversation, Amanda.
Amanda: my God, this is so brilliant. And you know, it took me many, many years to really appreciate why 3x4 have this vascular pathway. You know, because when you look at all the genes, they're like, these are all involved in inflammation, basically. So kind of think upstream. So I'm gonna ask that question, but I just wanted to go back one more because we got tied up. We were talking about SHBG, and then I went off about, you know, or the this this very controversial decision in testosterone, but other examples. a transportation, which yeah, would also be implicated by what's going on with the the vas the integrity of the vasculature when you're looking at things like vitamin D. So we can look at a vitamin D level, but or even B12, but there are proteins that are involved in getting these nutrients to their destination and their transportation proteins. So like vitamin D hooks itself on We call it a G C, it's a transportation pro protein. and a lot of times that's dysfunctional. That has a pretty high heterozygous. So maybe it's good, maybe it's not rate on the reports I'm looking at. That comes up a lot. And the other one that I will tell you if you are struggling with B12 levels, what we see genetically, if somebody has a variant on B12, like foot two, they're secreted, so they may sequester B12. in the gut and they have a SNP on TCN2, the T, you want to think transportation. I will tell you, if that's high impact, many of these individuals actually need B12 injections. They literally,
Sarah Amidon: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: the trans it's not that they can't absorb it, they can't deliver it. The package is unreturned. I I love this like I'm into the the post office at UPS or whatever today FedEx. But you know, you know when your package doesn't get delivered, you're like, where's my package? Well, they've got the tracking number, says it's out for delivery. Guess what? It's continuously out for delivery. So we can see that. So if you're someone and you haven't had your genetics read and you're not responding, the chances are there's a corruption in that transport program protein, and you may need B12 shots or top offs. you just will not get your B12 above 400 if you're measuring in serum, at least here in the US. So I think you've seen that too, Sarah. It's like, man, you're like, pushing this thing uphill for some people. So
Sarah Amidon: Yeah, it was honestly methyl B12 injections were transformative for me. Yeah.
Amanda: that's right. Yeah.
Sarah Amidon: so just at my sickest, you know, I'm like 20 or 30 pounds underweight and still breastfeeding and horrible, horrible chronic fatigue. Started my thyroid hormones at the same time as my methyl B12 injections. And it was like someone turned the lights on. And I was like, is this how normal people feel?
Amanda: Well, because you can't get into the Krebs cycle. Well, you need a certain form of B twelve, but obviously, you know, it was helping. It was it just methyl B twelve or did they did you think out of genocil?
Sarah Amidon: Yep. Yeah. It was a thousand microband micrograms of methyl B twelve. And I will tell you that regular cobalamin injections, cyanocobalamin have an aluminum preservative in it. If you read
Amanda: Yes, ma'am.
Sarah Amidon: the label, I don't know why, but if you have, you know, cognitive or heavy metal issues or detoxification issues, do not get the regular cyanocobalamin. They need to fix why why that's a preservative, I don't know.
Amanda: 'Cause your body has to detoxify that metal. Those metals us too.
Sarah Amidon: Yep. So now you got a new problem. You're giving ya some you know, B twelve, but then you're also giving you some aluminum. Cool.
Amanda: And that'll shut down your crib cycle. So that's amazing.
Sarah Amidon: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: so you asked about the integrity of the, you know, the trend. So we have a transporter, but what about the system it's being transported in? If you're, you know, somebody blocked, put all the you know, when you get off an aircraft and you obviously some baggage got delayed. So you get into the baggage claim and you're like tripping over all this baggage that somebody didn't get because it came on a later flight and That's like trying to push information through your bloodstream if the vasculature itself is inflamed. Inflamed vasculature equals smaller, you know, highway. You know, it's a one-lane highway instead of a two or three or four. And so the terrain through which, you know, these proteins are passing is as e is as important as you know what we're trying to push through that terrain. So you know, what do we look at genomically? Of course, we're looking at inflammation, we're looking at nitric oxide synthesis. So
Sarah Amidon: Mm, yeah.
Amanda: I tell you what I keep seeing epigenetically, sir, it just like blows my mind. So listen up, everyone. When you have an elevated ADMA level, so it could be SDMA or ADMA, it is ADMA, it's part of the homeostasis in the in the body, but Something so what does ADMA do and what can push that lever? my gosh, Sarah, this is mind-blowing. ADMA will actually block nitric oxide synthesis. So nitric oxide is integral to vasodilation. So ADMA will facilitate constriction. You can't put the packages, you know, you can't have enough suitcases on the conveyor belt, they're just gonna back up. It's the same idea. And guess what I'm seeing epigenetically? Elevated ADMA. And oftentimes it's in conjunction with doesn't mean say it's cause and effect. I'm observing, you're gonna see elevated levels of glyphosate, PFAS, heavy
Sarah Amidon: Mm.
Amanda: metals. And so, you know, we we know we you and I look at DNA for like how is it working in the body? Epigenetics is shining this light above. It's why it's called Epi. It's above the genome. We can literally see. how your DNA is behaving just based on what it's been exposed to. So to see elevated ADMA is pretty frightening because that would suggest, and then I can connect it to epigenetic signatures in the kidney. The kidney is saying, wait a minute, you've got some markers that are showing activity, high levels of activity. So once again, I'm not saying cause and effect, I'm observing environment, changes potentially in the vasculature. Which then relate to oxidative stress. I'm seeing those markers. And then guess what? I'm seeing things in the kidney. It could be elevated creatine, but that could be because pe a lot of people are now taking it. So we'd have to run different tests. But I'm connecting the dots that, you know, when the terrain is disturbed through which you're trying to push these proteins, no matter, you know, it it doesn't matter whether there's a problem with the protein or not. It's the terrain that needs fixing. And we're in trouble.
Sarah Amidon: So all of these things are acting like endocrine disruptors and the endocrine system
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah Amidon: is the hormone system.
Amanda: And when you take it back to genetics and methylation, what is the one molecule? my gosh, it's full circle that actually upregulates the ADMA receptor, regardless of anything, is elevated homocysteine. So that spins off something called homocysteine thilactone, a homothhyolactone. It's the HTL. So you can check my mis mis misrepresentation of the actual molecule. So elevated homocysteine is toxic. And now you're connecting it to the vasculature. And we measure
Sarah Amidon: Hm, which we
Amanda: one of the ways we measure homocy of methylation. I mean, there's better measures, right? At the SAMTASAR ratio if we need to, but elevated homocysteine clinically says what's going on is what is the demand on the methylation system? Because methylation is one of the ways your genes modulate. It's it's it's how they turn on and off based on what the what they're being asked to do. So d I'm telling you the environment and we've read about it and then a bunch of lefties, or it's the environmental people are getting in the way of our life. No, the environment is getting weight of your health span. And we can now measure it. Wow.
Sarah Amidon: Yeah. Pretty amazing. Those are incredible connections.
Amanda: my gosh, more to come. All right. How we doing, Sarah?
Sarah Amidon: We got about 15 minutes or so to wrap these things
Amanda: Okay, well we did delivery.
Sarah Amidon: up, but yep, we did delivery. the receptor response.
Amanda: So now we're talking about the receptor, right? And so
Sarah Amidon: Yes, and how we're seeing that in practice. So can the tissue hear the message? And you, you know, went through a lot of biochemistry mechanisms there. There's a lot of messages being sent in our endocrine system. So once once those hormones reach the tissue, the receptor has to then recognize it, respond to that signal. So insulin resistance, you, you know, we've haven't touched on it a ton, but we have in the past with some of our other podcasts, but we do see that in PCOS patients and PMDD, in, you know, when we see estrogen dominance, there's usually an insulin resistance component to that. do you want to speak to that a little bit more, Amanda?
Amanda: Not so much on the PCOS pieces, you know, that's sort of not my expertise at all, but I would say where we see it so often is the stress correlation. You know, when cortisol is goes awry. I mean, cortisol when it's functioning is it it it is a functional molecule, right? And it actually is quite brilliant that it'll activate or fight or fly, it has a role, right? I have to imagine you see this in athletes too when they really have to push. You know, that last five percent, not that we're measuring cortisol when they get off the playing field or anything like that, but it also downregulates the immune system. It it it says, okay, you need to shut down because we need all our energy over here. But when it's chronically elevated, the opposite happens, right? So then our adrenergic receptors are we're just so sick of listening to your cortisol. We're gonna shut down and we can take all that fat. We can take the energy, packages it fat, grow some healthy adipose tissue. Healthy, which in fact is unhealthy and is associated with insulin resistance. So that's you know, in like a 50-second version of a four-hour lecture of cortisol causes adiposity or it correlates with adiposity with many, many people over time. And then that changes the receptor, the functionality of the receptor, which is affiliated with insulin resistance. But We can genetically see the potential in different ways too. There's a lot of appetite and satiety genes that help override our ability to shut down noise, the noise of food. I've never experienced that. I don't know if you have, Sarah, but it is so real. And we're seeing that with people who really respond well to GLP1s because they'll say it stops the noise. It starts the yapping
Sarah Amidon: Yeah.
Amanda: from their dysfunctional MC4R or leopard genes. So overeating. Correlates with fatter fat, bigger fat cells, which change receptivity. You know, the insulin can't dock. You know, that the signaling just doesn't take place. But also with something like IRS one, IRS one relays the signal to GLUT4. If that signal isn't strong, the receptor can't do its job. It can't clear blood glucose. And then the other example of receptors, this is what I see so much. If you look when you're working with midlife. women over and over the presynaptic serotonin receptor is HTR1A. I think on 3x4, the homozygous forms, the high impact form, which means the deaf form is like GG, but check it, I may have that wrong. But there's a form that the receptor is not willing, if you will, to hear to take up the signal. It's deaf to it, which means that individual does not necessarily get the serotonin hit. So the Postsynaptic receptor works. The presynaptic one is like, I don't want to do my job today. And so SSRIs, depending on them, will jump over that receptor into onto the like the the serotonin boat, you know, so we can surf over and hit the receptor on the other side. But sometimes, and a lot of times, you have people, male or female, that have receptor changes on both sides, so inefficient receptors. then we have to work really hard on building serotonin and letting it be heard, which is an art form. That you talk about dialing, turning the dials at minuscule levels until you can get that perfect like signal strength is an art and it's N of one. It is one individual at a time. There's no perfect drug. But we can hit it with herbs and food and tenacity, you know, as well. So Yeah, the receptor piece is critical. VDR receptor. A lot of dysfunctional VDR receptors out there. You can have the perfect vitamin D level, but it is not projecting. It is not the the the shape of the receptor means you actually may have to have a higher level of vitamin D so that it can relay the signal. We often see.
Sarah Amidon: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: So yeah. So that's the package on the porch, but nobody picked it up. It's sitting outside.
Sarah Amidon: Not received. No one was there to sign for their package. So
Amanda: That's it. That's it. We're gonna call this the like the UPS like session or something. The packaging market.
Sarah Amidon: Or maybe DHL stands for delivery of hormone line.
Amanda: Well you get the point, right? You know, a lot of people that the package the the tracker says the package is there, but nobody answered the door and picked it up, so yeah.
Sarah Amidon: It's on your neighbor's porch.
Amanda: Someone it which happens, right? It's in the wrong mailbox. So okay, so there's the receptor. So can you see as we've gone along here, we're coming like to the the last stretch. The hormones, it's not really about high or low. It's about where they got stuck, if they did, or at what point in their journey. It can be receptor, it can be delivery, it can be production. And I think the last part is really not It's it's not about getting stuck getting to the location. It's once it's in the location, how are we going to take out the trash when we've actually used the hormone, when it's signaled? This is where there's yeah, th there's quite a lot of crises in mental health, right? We can see that. But also, like you're saying, in straightforward detoxification. So you wanna take the the detoxification piece.
Sarah Amidon: Yeah. I mean, I we've probably talked about detox on this podcast, said nauseum and but liver needs to be functioning. We need enough choline to support, you know, bio flow and detoxification that way. But are we pooping regularly? What's happening with our digestion? Do we have an overgrowth? We have bloating, you know, the the whole digestive tract really is kind of in charge of so many things. And then if the lymphatics aren't moving, Detoxification systems also aren't functioning optimally. So yeah, having strong starting with a strong, you know, digestive juices in the in the stomach. So if we're on PPIs, we're already starting from behind by having enough digestive enzymes and hydrochloric acid, even just to start that party having a good response from the pancreas to release those. you know, pancreatic enzymes so that we can metabolize all of those nutrients and and keep things moving forward for detoxification. But yeah, I go back to casserole packs and are you sweating and are you having your, you know, quality bowel movements and enough movement to support detoxification too. So we've definitely covered a lot of those things over the course and hormones are no different. They're part of part of these processes and they get packaged up and and shipped out too. so we wanna make sure our phases of detoxification are are functional functioning optimally.
Amanda: You know, the other place where there's such a collision course with detoxification, first of all, if you are a person and caffeine is just like so everyday, right? And it was sort of trended for a long time. Yeah, I need like five cups of coffee and I love that jittery experience. That is the last experience you actually want. you know, many of us are very slow detoxifiers of anything that contain caffeine, and what you need to think about is your body only has so many resources. And one of the major genes, actually two of the major genes that are involved in caffeine detoxification also detoxify estrogen. And the body only has so much to go around. And I see this over and over again. If you push, you try to push too many things through a detoxification channel, the body's going to choose what what it's going to detoxify. So just be forewarned if you don't know your genomics, the jittery feeling is your body telling you this is not good for you. it means you are over you under resourced and pushing your detoxification too hard. I see that over and over again. yeah, stories for another day. But detoxification is isn't just taking trash out from your food and the environment. It's also detoxifying your neurotransmitters like dopamine and serotonin. Tycular dopamine, that shares a similar gene with estrogen and caffeine people. So hello. If you see your kids, you know, they got a caffeinated beverage somewhere. You know, they went to a party and they are just bouncing off the ceiling and they can't sleep. They are under resource they're probably overexcited, but they are under resourced. Your body only has so much to go around, which is why we talk so much about you've got to eat foods rich in folate and you gotta have enough B twelve, because those two along with some other nutrients, but they're critical for the methylation. B two. yeah.
Sarah Amidon: Magnesium too, I would put on there as well. Magnesium. And about fifty percent of Americans are pretty pretty
Amanda: Yeah, I'm saying.
Sarah Amidon: pretty deficient in magnesium these days.
Amanda: Because it's it's the body needs it in so many places. So I agree. And we have to and depending on what the needs are that we're dealing with first, you may switch the kind of magnesium, right? Or we'll do a sort of magnesium complex. you know, I wanted to go back to something you'd asked because you actually did research on this and it comes up so much. you know, and I find this with so many patients or individuals excuse me coming to us. I mean, digestively, that's where we have to start. You know, they think normal. is to belch after eating or to be bloated or not poop every day or whatever. and you know, digestion, it starts in the mouth, but the big churna where it all starts to happen is the stomach. And so many people are have low stomach acidness, not even age specific. So we do like a BTN HCL test or whatever, we're going to try and check. Or we can do something with the a apple cider vinegar. There's different ways we can test your acidity. What if you found 'cause you did research on this, it was a brilliant, for your dissertation, I think for your master's degree, that you helped somebody who's very debilitated optimize his stomach acid, right? So he could digest.
Sarah Amidon: Yeah, it was an esophageal cancer patient. And so
Amanda: That's right, yeah.
Sarah Amidon: he'd had dumping syndrome and just horrible fatigue after eating meals. and so I was like, Well, you know, I have to utili utilize them. I don't have a gallbladder and it it makes a huge difference with heavy, heavy foods. So you know the ones that make you feel bloated or tired or you know, even even healthy things sometimes can make us feel feel some of those digestive discomforts. but adding one capsule with, you know, lunch and dinner, he is now living a normal life. Whereas he would have to eat these small meals and lay on the couch. And I've used it with other cancer patients too, just because radiation and chemo can change how the body functions in those areas. Or if you have surgery actually anywhere in the body, it can impact the vagus nerve, even if you don't actually cut the vagus nerve like it did for my patient who had. This esophageal cancer surgery. so if we can have a vagus nerve sparing surgery, first of all, if you're cut doing lung transplants or esophageal like anything in kind of that chest cavity, but also supporting with some betaine HCl with pepsin or digest symes by designs for health is kind of a full spectrum with you know oxbile for our bile support. and a few other digestive enzymes. So, top to bottom is like if we can address, you know, digestion and we're actually optimizing how we're utilizing our nutrients, we don't have to take all these supplements. You know, like this is and I
Amanda: Correct. It it it's so true. It's so true.
Sarah Amidon: and in my paper, my research paper, it was talking about declining pepsin levels as we age. So for some reason, you know, our protein recommendations go up for the elderly. to increase their protein intake. And my question is, is that because we actually need more protein or we're just not metabolizing it the way that we used to? So,
Amanda: That's a good point. Yeah.
Sarah Amidon: you know, if we just added, you know, some beta HCl pepsin with our meals, we could probably utilize that protein better. And you wouldn't have to eat more.
Amanda: And and that is to No, that's a brilliant point because it is about signaling when we're looking at musculature. It's like the protein signal is lower. So I think you're really onto something. It could be that, yeah, the protein absorption is lower. So the signal is going to be weaker. That's that's amazing. So you with this individual, so it's so interesting that you know, he had his offageal cancer. And you say esophagus and cancer and betaine or increasing stomach acid, and there's this whole like segment of the medical professionals like, nope, do not well make well, how are they going to eat? you know, because the reflux, maybe because food is actually sitting in the stomach, we need it to, you know, open the door, the other side of the stomach, and then send the right signal, which has to be the right pH in the food, to release pancreatic enzymes. So, so with these.
Sarah Amidon: He was also having bloating too. So he was feeling pain at his port site from his where he had his feeding tube in. So he would have bloating. So I think and I say this too. I've got this really great image in my manuscript with it's actually talking about tropical sprue, but essentially you've got SIBO overgrowing because we don't have an acidic enough stomach, and we're
Amanda: Exactly.
Sarah Amidon: supposed to create this, bacterial gradient where we want the highest amount of bacteria in the colon and we want it to stay down there. But then if the if the stomach is not acidic enough, then we've got bacteria creeping
Amanda: Hundred percent.
Sarah Amidon: up, you know, the the large intestine into the small intestine. That's where you see bloating. That's why we see SIBO. And so if I hear bloating and, you know, SIBO related things, it's like we need more acid. You just do.
Amanda: That's I do too. A hundred percent we don't even need a big gut test. I mean, sometimes obviously, you know, we pass on our difficult cases to our colleague, like that, that one's too long. Long term. That that is an expertise, at least for me, that's way beyond my my pay grade. But I'm with you and I always think of Christine Horton as saying, you SIBO is the right bacteria in the wrong place. I'm like, yep. So gotta flush them down, you know, change the environment. They're
Sarah Amidon: Push down.
Amanda: not gonna like the acidic environment. So so so you keep your patients or individuals you're working with, well, we know this is an issue on B T and HL, like a daily dose or as needed. Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah Amidon: Yep. Yeah. I keep it in my purse always. It's usually because when you're eating out, you can't control what ingredients some places use. So I'm more likely to use if I'm eating out than if I'm cooking at home. But
Amanda: Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. Well, because you can control your inputs and your ingredients. And I know how you eat anyway. So yeah.
Sarah Amidon: Ha ha ha.
Amanda: She's in Indianapolis. All right. So we kind of did. So hopefully we made the point that we're looking at the speed bumps along the way with hormones high and low. It may not be about high and low. It's like where did they get tripped up along the way? Where was their chaos? Where did they get diverted? Where did they not even make it? So How do we wanna close this one out, Sarah? It's been quite a quite a conversation with 'cause Amanda Deviations as usual.
Sarah Amidon: I think just you know, the take home messages, you know, the hormones, they're one of the systems and the reproduction system is going to probably be the lowest on the totem pole. you know, if
Amanda: Mm, good point.
Sarah Amidon: if the body has to decide what functions are most important, reproduction is gonna be lowest. And that we see that with famine, right? Like in in times of famine, we're not eating enough, we're underfueling. hormones shut down because now is not the time to make a baby. so we have to think about, okay, well, why is the reproduction and in our hormone systems tanking and what are the factors involved? And we there are many. So it's not just one, one story and one thing that we're gonna focus on, but it it's a whole system of pathways. So
Amanda: No, I agree. And I I would just also say you hear us talking, you know, of course the biochemistry, the science of how these systems work, but when we're looking at genomics, it's always it provides us insights and lenses. It tells us, you know, maybe the ste speed bump may be as early on as methylation in this system. Yeah, there's a bunch of cluster on how someone detoxifies estrogen or or whatever, or dopamine. But the real issue, like you just said with the stomach, is to start much higher up in upstream so that you initiate that on-ramp of this whole like transportation system to optimize hormones. And I think what's happening is we're trying to optimize hormones by going to the end. Right. Which is why I'm concerned about this testosterone idea. Like and as you said, we we we should be thinking about the environment. What is what is depleting? versus how we just gonna inject something to solve the problem. That's
Sarah Amidon: That's right.
Amanda: yeah. So interested to hear your feedback, folks, on our conversation. Hope it was illuminating. It's always fun, Sarah. And I I like the way we kind of looked at this through the lens of from a transportation and production system.
Sarah Amidon: Yeah, and the podcast is now available on YouTube if you want to watch the video version. So that's pretty cool. And I think YouTube podcast, Amazon Music, those were added. So not just Spotify or Apple. So it's more widely available thanks to Riverside had some great integrations. So they've overhauled some things and made it easier for all of us. So I'm excited for that. We will
Amanda: Absolutely. All right, Sarah.
Sarah Amidon: see you next time.
Amanda: See you next time, everyone.