David Davis

WEBVTT
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Hey commuter, what do an Oreo, a Twinkie, and a trampoline and this episode have in common?
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The best part is in the middle.
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So buckle up, commuter.
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Today's episode is surrounded by a generous helping of completely unnecessary banter on both ends.
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We strongly encourage you to skip past the outer layers, ignore the structural integrity of this Oreo, and head straight to the good stuff in the middle.
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Welcome to another helping of Beyond Artless.
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Okay, so when we came on tonight, there were two Peters.
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Two's a lot.
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You want to get a little closer with the mic when you're chewing?
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I'm also finishing eating dinner.
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Sorry, hold on.
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I'll go to mute.
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No, no, no.
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Keep it on.
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It's good.
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I like this.
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This is great.
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Especially since they're chips.
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Oh, now he's leaving.
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That's too bad.
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Well, hi, Phil.
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How are you?
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I everything seems to be going according to plan.
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Yeah.
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Everything's great.
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We've got ice ice cubes clinking.
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We've got chips crackling.
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What what could be better?
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A Sunday night with my friends.
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What's going on, Peter?
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Ram and Julie made a good soup.
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Splendid.
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Real world.
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Real world.
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This is as real as it gets.
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How's the city of Green Bay tonight, Chris?
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It's great.
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Everyone's happy in Green Bay.
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It's fine.
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There's nothing to worry about.
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This is part of the plan.
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Wow.
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What a start to the season.
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It's been it's fine.
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It's fine.
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So this will come out two weeks later, and by that point the Packers will be uh, what would that be?
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Two and one.
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It'll be fine.
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Nothing to worry about.
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Just a little uh little hiccup in the gide.
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Nothing to worry about.
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Okay.
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All right.
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This is how we roll.
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Yep.
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As long as long as you didn't see smoke rising from Lambeau, I then we should be okay.
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Hey, but check this out.
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This is pretty cool.
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If I go here and I do this, okay, now watch this.
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That's what the rest of that room looks like.
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I've never known.
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Why why is he running around the room?
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I have no idea.
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And then he I lost it.
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Can't find me now, can it?
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We keep talking about AI and how smart it is and how it's gonna end the world, and it can't follow me.
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Right now?
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It just followed you around the room.
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It did.
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I was running around, but it couldn't keep up with me.
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This is clearly an exploration in just how much we can edit out of the banter at the beginning of the podcast.
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Yeah, I know.
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Stop waving your hand in front of a camera that's looking at the wall.
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But my uh it won't turn.
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Look how dumb it is.
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There, now it's like, duh, there you are.
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Telling you, we have nothing to worry about.
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We're fine.
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AI.
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Yeah, you're showing some disturbing trends.
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Disturbing trends of someone who spends a little too much time online.
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That is exactly what I was thinking with season save.
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I just think we've definitely crossed over.
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All I do.
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Peter and Chris, how long do you have before your first honor band?
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How much time?
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I don't think I don't think I'm on until uh, well, Midwest is kind of an honor band.
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I just took one for October.
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Oh I said I wasn't gonna do that anymore.
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Oh whoopsie daisy.
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I think January.
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January and then March.
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How about you, Phil?
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Why?
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You got one tomorrow?
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Nope.
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No honor bands on the uh schedule at this point.
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Uh it's all free.
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December.
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Uh had some interesting gigs this week.
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Played a one tune on the Hispanic Heritage Awards uh ceremony, which will be on PBS live, maybe about two weeks after the release of this podcast.
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And then I played uh last night at uh the Pablo Center fundraiser with Mr.
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Baca.
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It's very interesting.
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How is Bob doing?
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Uh Mr.
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Baca's very well.
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It was really nice to play a gig with my friend.
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No tubo.
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Cool.
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No tubo.
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Bass, clarinet, violin, drums, and piano.
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We uh were there as a beach band, Chris.
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We played a little zydeco, a little shuffle, a lot of shuffly bluesy kinds of things.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Beach band never shuffled.
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No.
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What are we doing?
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A lot of second line, a lot of second line tunes.
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Yeah.
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Third line.
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Peter.
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We're in the swing of things here.
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Whatever, whatever, three weeks, whatever, and and uh Encore started rehearsal, so I just feel like we're like back at it.
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What's the what's the hallmark piece, uh, this rotation for Encore?
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Um, well, we're featuring Chuck Charles Lazarus on uh American Nomad, a new uh transcription of the work.
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It's about 10 years old, I think, maybe 11, but it's been transcribed for wins.
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So we're gonna premiere that with him at St.
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Andrews on October 4th.
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You're all welcome to join us October 4th.
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Check the calendar right now on that.
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Lutheran Church in Matamida, it's very exciting.
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I think it's a three o'clock, three o'clock show.
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Um, what else?
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We've got a world premiere by Jack Stamp, a world premiere by Dean Sorensen, first sweet knee flat.
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Gotta have some sort of uh certain things.
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And then we're featuring Bill Schernard on organ.
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So Dean Sorensen's piece has Bill Schonard playing, and I figured, well, if that's the case, so we're then we're doing Ron Nelson's Pebble Beach Sojourn, which is brass percussion in organ.
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And that mighty instrument that he has at St.
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Andrews.
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That's quite the thing.
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So we're gonna it's gonna be a great day.
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And this American Nomad piece by Steven Heitzig is a wonderful concerto.
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Very contemporary, it's got jazz, you know, it features everything that Charles does well.
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So it's got some open improvisation sections.
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It's feels like Copeland, feels like Stravinsky, feels like blues.
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It's urban, it's rural, it's everything.
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It's it's quite a 35-minute journey.
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And the second movement is so beautifully transcribed because it was strings only, and they did Woodwin choir, and I was like, I don't know if that's gonna work, but the way they scored for the clarinets and the saxophones and the oboe solos, and it's beautifully done.
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So super exciting.
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Yes, did you see there's yeah, saxophones?
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Well, our our guest tonight is actually a saxophonist.
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He chose saxophones as a fifth grader, uh, because he couldn't make a sound on his first choice, which was a trumpet.
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Um, he's collected Pokemon cards as a child and still have his original holographic Charizard.
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I don't know how to say that word.
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It's it's rather big.
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He once made a PowerPoint presentation for his Christmas gift wish list.
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That should tell you a lot.
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My niece does that, except it's on Canva and with links that you can just go ahead and purchase right there.
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That's so well done.
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That's really well done.
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That's smart.
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Yeah.
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Um he really likes the board game Monopoly, even though no one ever wants to play it.
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Uh, in college, he once won Guitar Hero Contest and won 80 bucks.
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Guitar?
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That's impressive.
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Yeah.
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As a high school saxophonist who was interested in exploring additional music opportunities, he joined the extracurricular clarinet choir and was assigned to play the alto clarinet because it looked like a saxophone.
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I mean, yeah.
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We all recover from things like that.
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Well, we all make choices.
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Okay.
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Yes.
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All right.
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Now you go from that to this one.
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Check this out.
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He shook President Obama's hand in the Oval Office.
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Whoa.
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He's a music educator, an innovator, a researcher, a change agent, a saxophone player, and apparently someone who has enough energy to have about six careers at the same time.
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He's focused um on asking some rather uncomfortable questions, but important questions about music education.
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Who is it really serving?
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Why do we keep doing the things because that's just the way they've been done?
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Amen.
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And what would happen if we actually designed music education around the human sitting in front of us?
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He's working at the intersection of culturally responsive teaching, motivation science, music literacy, and the science of reading.
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He's also helping build a community of educators who are willing to rethink what music education could look like rather than simply trying to make the existing system slightly less broken.
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And apparently, other people have noticed he's the 2026 Minnesota Teacher of the Year, a Grammy Music Educator semifinalist, a give a note music education innovator, a music for all elementary excellence award recipient, and a Yamaha 40 under 40 educator.
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And oh, by the way, gentlemen, the three of us are part of the 5000 over 50 list.
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He is a teacher, a husband, a traveler, a cook, a gamer, and someone who clearly isn't afraid to change the status quo.
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Gentlemen, and I use that term loosely.
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Today's guest is David Davis.
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Welcome, David.
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Greeting.
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Hi.
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Thank you for inviting me.
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I'm very honored to talk with you all, and thank you for that wonderful intro.
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That's very wonderful.
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Well, it gets worse from here, don't worry.
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So I've heard.
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So I've heard.
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Well wow.
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But this man, he's done his homework.
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You know, he's not this, he's not taking anything to chance.
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He came on tonight.
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He's like, uh, listened to a couple episodes, and um, yeah, it's too bad.
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Like I feels a little sympathy for us.
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Um, David, what just a pleasure again.
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We've we got a chance to meet through a mutual acquaintance, you know, Eric Songer and amazing uh music educator in his own right.
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But uh what a what an honor to read more about you and honestly, you helped me learn more about like the science of reading and uh a lens into this music world.
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Because actually, what's what's interesting about tonight, not just the Wisconsin-Minnesota give and take and how bad the Packers look, but the reality of we just finished our music standards, like literally tonight.
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I think we just put the final dot on that document after a year of really intensely working at this.
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And I'm coming to the language standards on it, right?
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We have language as one of our standards, which is really a really cool, interesting take on this.
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But it is your information that I stole a lot of things from, thinking about the science of reading and the way that we talk about the words decode and so on.
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I'm just wondering if you could talk and speak a little bit about that intersection with your own teaching and how that informs the way that you teach your students now.
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Yeah, I think uh it started as a band teacher, just noticing year after year uh students struggling with reading notation and wondering why is my way of teaching never fixed.
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Like there's always some kids that struggle.
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Um, so I just started reading a bunch and then happened to also get my master's degree at the same time, and discovered uh books by Suzuki and Ed Gordon and Stanley Schleter and all these people that have been researching the science of reading as music as a second language since like, I don't know, the 1960s or 80s or something.
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A long time people have been talking about it, but it was the first I'd heard of it, and I was just fascinated.
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Um and sure enough, the more I learned about what they said and then ex started experimenting in my classroom, I saw differences with my students.
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Um, just little things like teaching music as patterns rather than one note at a time.
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Um, I had the realization that like think English, we we don't teach kids English one letter at a time, right?
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If we had them identify like that's an H, that's an A, that's a T, good, you just read that word.
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Like that's not how it works.
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Like that's actually naming the letters of the alphabet.
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Um, it's the phonics of that symbol stands for, and that symbol stands for uh, and that symbol stands for t, and that's hat.
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Um, and that our brains work the same way with music too.
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So um just things like um I'm also letters trained, which stands for language essentials for teachers of reading and spelling, which is training that a lot of uh teachers in Minnesota have been getting because of the Minnesota Read Act, and it's all about the the science of reading and phonics and phonemic awareness and awareness and orthographic mapping.
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And um I voluntarily took that because I was just curious about the the brain science of how we learn language.
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Yeah.
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I love that.
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I love that.
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And I I apologize for those again who don't know you uh so well.
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Can you just give us a little background on where you teach and what you teach and what you do and so on, just so we can get a lot of people.
00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:45.759
Yeah, I uh so I I mentioned I was a band teacher.
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I started my career as a a pretty traditionalist band teacher who played classical saxophone.
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Um a few years in I added orchestra.
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Um so I I love instruments.
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Um and then uh around COVID times I switched to general music.
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Um but I still identify as a band and orchestra teacher.
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So I tell people I'm a band teacher that doesn't currently have a dedicated band.
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Um I should say concert band, because in my general music classroom, we definitely do have like garage bands and rock bands and xylophone bands, and there's many ensembles in my room.
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It's just not a quote unquote Eurocentric concert band.
00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:29.039
Um so to answer your question, I'm currently in St.
00:14:29.200 --> 00:14:36.399
Louis Park, Minnesota, just west of Minneapolis, and I teach at Park Spanish Immersion Elementary uh K through five.
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So I teach the entire building.
00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:42.159
Aaron Powell And true or false, have you ever been part of Encore wind ensemble?
00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:43.279
Aaron Powell True, yeah.
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I heard from some of the past episodes that uh one of the hosts is a conductor of Encore.
00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:54.159
Um I played in the before COVID time, so I think it was 2017 to 2019.
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I was the the first chair saxophonist.
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And I think you said to me that's when it was good.
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Uh wasn't that what you did.
00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:00.879
I didn't say that.
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No.
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Oh, sorry.
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Oh, it was I remember your own head.
00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:05.440
That sounds accurate.
00:15:05.679 --> 00:15:06.000
Okay.
00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:07.360
Yeah, got it.
00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:07.919
Yeah.
00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:09.759
I can I can handle it, David.
00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:10.399
I can handle it.
00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:14.559
Um this is this is really cool.
00:15:14.799 --> 00:15:18.559
Uh I tell me more about the reading concept.
00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:21.039
Uh um uh decoding, right?
00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:26.399
Our students should not, when they're reading for the first time, they shouldn't be H A Ting.
00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:32.559
They should be able to kind of be almost right, seeing full phrases, things like this as they go along.
00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:46.320
Um Do you how do you connect to the teaching of those fundamentals of reading of music, similarly to how we teach reading of the English language?
00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:48.000
Yeah, great question.
00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:53.600
Um, and I found the more I connect it to verbal language, the more it makes sense to me.
00:15:53.679 --> 00:15:56.720
And it tends to, I think, make sense to people I'm talking to as well.
00:15:56.879 --> 00:16:05.200
So let me just ask you like from what you understand about how humans learn their mother tongue, like what what's usually the the process?
00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:10.080
So for me, I'm uh a big fan of sound assymbol teaching, right?
00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:27.279
So um, and I actually have a lot of my students work with David Newell's book, Teaching Rhythm and other sources um that help them realize that we speak, we create sounds, that's what little kids do, and then they come back together.
00:16:27.519 --> 00:16:33.440
Um and then he I really teach my students to teach rhythm in this way.
00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:43.840
And in fact, note names, clefts, all of this, even internal pulse can be done in a sound, simple way, taught in a group environment, and you can see success.
00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:49.120
And it just takes a long time for my teachers to trust it because they weren't taught that way.
00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:56.879
And I think teaching music does make us smarter, but I think the way we currently teach music, only the smart kids survive.
00:16:57.200 --> 00:16:59.200
Because we ask them to do a lot of things.
00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:07.680
So, but uh but I will be honest, like my the depth goes, it doesn't go as far as I want it to.
00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:24.480
I'd love to have more resources and and um other places or people to send my students to, but uh he just really does that, and then I use a meal so that they can see this, you know, the music uh flashes up, but they have to read a whole measure, then it goes away, and then they say it, so on and so forth.
00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:30.240
So he really goes sound as simple teaching, um, which has been around since pre-Suzuki.
00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:42.559
And uh that's how we learn a language, and I feel like in fact it's actually harder to read music because if we read the New York Times together, we would um whoa, someone's typing.
00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:50.559
Um uh if we were to read the New York Times together, we would not read it at the exact same tempo.
00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:55.759
So I think it's not right, because the music, everyone's doing it at the same tempo.
00:17:56.400 --> 00:17:58.799
It's even harder than reading English language, yeah.
00:17:59.119 --> 00:17:59.279
Yeah.
00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:09.519
So I had a light bulb moment um where I realized that the technical skills of playing an instrument are a different skill set than music, fluency, and comprehension.
00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:19.759
Um and I feel like up until then, my thought was if you can play sheet music accurately and quickly, you must be musically fluent and literate.
00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:24.240
Um, and what I've come to believe now is that's not true.
00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:30.000
That just means I'm a really good saxophone technician, not necessarily a fluent musician.
00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:43.519
Um, and the analogy that really made it click for me was I think it was maybe Fire Robind, um said, Imagine you have a keyboard that's in like Greek and has all these like upside-down Ts and I's with three dots and everything that I I don't know Greek.
00:18:43.599 --> 00:18:45.119
Um but theoretically I can open it.
00:18:46.160 --> 00:18:47.839
Right, Greek to me too, yes.
00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:55.599
Um but theoretically, I could open up a children's book written in Greek and be tasked with typing that book.
00:18:55.759 --> 00:19:02.880
And I would have to hunt and peck at first, but after doing that for 12 years, my words per minute would probably be pretty quick.
00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:05.200
I'd be a really good Greek typist.
00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:10.640
But through those 12 years of copying Greek text, did I ever learn Greek?
00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:12.079
Can I speak Greek?
00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:14.640
Can I understand people when they speak Greek to me?
00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:16.559
Can I write my own Greek?
00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:17.680
Probably not.
00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:21.599
I I would recognize some like, oh, I've seen that combination all the time.
00:19:21.839 --> 00:19:26.000
So, like, my brain knows how to type so quick, but I don't actually know Greek.
00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:33.519
And I feel like I'm my brain is kind of like that with music because I wasn't trained to improvise very much, to compose very much.
00:19:33.759 --> 00:19:37.200
My audien skills are very atrophied.
00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:43.680
Um, but I can play the hardest saxophone music out there if you put the sheet music in front of me.
00:19:43.839 --> 00:19:49.039
Um, so for me, that was a big differentiation of like, oh, these are two different skill sets.
00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:58.240
And I think a lot of music teachers perhaps um are teaching the technical skills and maybe not so much the music literacy, fluency skills.
00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:00.079
So so I want to I want to go back.
00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:09.519
What are some resources that we could give to the uh great music educators that are uh luckily listening to this good podcast this time?
00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:11.359
Usually it's crap.
00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:18.720
But um what can we give them to get them started on a path towards teaching students to be musically literate?
00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:32.880
Um yeah, I think especially for instrumental teachers, the one that um was the easiest for me to understand and approachable for instrumentalists was a sound approach to teaching instrumentalists by Stanley Schleter.
00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:36.319
Um, and I think he bases that off of Ed Gordon's research.
00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:36.640
Yeah.
00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:42.559
And then I would say Ed Gordon's stuff, but his stuff is pretty like academic, dense.
00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:44.160
Rather cerebral.
00:20:44.720 --> 00:20:53.839
Yeah, I've read it multiple times, and there's still parts I'm like, I'm not quite sure what he's saying, but um I think he did his research, so um I would suggest Ed Gordon.
00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:56.880
It's just tough to understand from my perspective.
00:20:57.519 --> 00:20:58.960
Again, very much like Phil.
00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:02.240
I mean, that was it was a little one, but it was very well placed.
00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:03.039
Timing.
00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:03.519
Thank you.
00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:03.920
Okay.
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:08.799
Um even Suzuki's nurtured by love is not too hard to read either.
00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:17.039
So and I I found that um uh teaching rhythm and David Newell's thing really is I mean, he's very Gordon as well, and he um really talks about that.
00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:21.039
If you can't read it, write it, you know, speak it.
00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:24.799
Uh and he just uses that, and I'm I found it to be very powerful.
00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:35.039
So he does it just through rhythm, but you can and even there's some um creative director stuff from Ed Lisk that lines up really well with these things as tools.
00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:35.920
So I'll read it.
00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:36.880
So I'll stop talking.
00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:50.799
No, David, I have to say I'm familiar with many of the things uh that you have spoken about, uh, not all, and I'm not nearly as uh well read or um uh versed in what we as as you are.
00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:59.200
Um but I've experienced um learning music in Suzuki as a young child, and then my college training was um Ed Gordon's method.
00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:12.799
Uh it's True, jump right in, which is a band method that incorporates a lot of different pattern work and soulfish and uh um uh is one of many things I use to teach with.
00:22:13.039 --> 00:22:23.279
Um and I'm I'm basically wondering is w when Chris is holding up a sign that says a question might be coming soon.
00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:25.359
It's well just hanging in there.
00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:36.319
Uh I I'm wondering, uh was it a gradual process uh that you became frustrated with when you were teaching, or was it all of a sudden like you just realized you needed a revolutionary change?
00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:39.519
So but I guess my question is revolutionary or revolutionary?
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:40.960
That was so good.
00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:42.480
Why didn't you just ask that?
00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:44.000
It was a good question.
00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:50.720
Um yeah, I think it was the gradual being a band teacher and seeing the same types of kids frustrated every year.
00:22:50.799 --> 00:22:57.200
Like it was always like, I don't know, 40% of the kids learned how to read notation, the other 60% didn't, and often they quit.
00:22:57.359 --> 00:23:04.319
And every I was in like year eight, and I was like, why is it like I thought I thought I'd be a better teacher by now, but it's the same kids keep quitting.
00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:15.920
And so um, so it was a gradual frustration, and then it was me getting a master's degree, and there was a class where the professor said, Hey, pick one of these like music pedagogues and read about them.
00:23:16.079 --> 00:23:17.440
And I saw the name Ed Gordon.
00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:18.960
I was like, that name looks familiar.
00:23:19.039 --> 00:23:20.319
I want to read about him.
00:23:20.480 --> 00:23:23.920
And that's what the light bulb was was finally reading Ed Gordon.
00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:34.400
And then I was able to finally put my finger on that's what I've been seeing, and that's why my kids are getting frustrated, and it's my approach, is actually not aligned with the research or the science.
00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:36.880
And and I was like, oh, I gotta change.
00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:44.000
And then like the next day, I started changing my approach, and um, so yeah, it was gradual until it wasn't.
00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:53.039
What's awesome is that a a lot of teachers might get to that point and just get frustrated and quit or give up or fold.
00:23:53.119 --> 00:23:54.720
And you did the opposite.
00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:59.680
And uh, that takes, you know, work and courage and um making mistakes.
00:23:59.839 --> 00:24:04.880
Did you feel like when you made the changes that you made a bunch of mistakes and learning, you know, to teach a different way?
00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:06.319
Oh, yes, all the time.
00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:08.960
And I still don't feel like I'm anywhere near being an expert.
00:24:09.039 --> 00:24:12.319
I'm still in trial and error mode and action research mode.
00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:15.920
And I mean, I it's really hard because I struggle with auditation myself.
00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:26.559
So I feel like I'm like if I was a Spanish teacher who like could only speak at like a three-year-old level, you wouldn't want me teaching Spanish, right?
00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:29.599
And I kind of feel like that sometimes as a music teacher.
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:36.160
Um, maybe I shouldn't have said that on a podcast, but it'll be fine.
00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:36.960
Nobody's listening.
00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:37.519
Keep going.
00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:38.400
Right, right.
00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:44.480
Um, but what I have realized is holy cow, I've had such a narrow, yeah, right.
00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:49.839
I've had such a narrow niche understanding of music myself now that I'm a music teacher.
00:24:49.920 --> 00:24:52.240
I definitely don't want my students to have that same thing.
00:24:52.319 --> 00:25:00.720
So I've worked really hard to make sure I'm teaching improvisation as young as kindergarten and creating songwriting is just normalized.
00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:03.759
So my students aren't afraid to just make up their own music.
00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:13.119
And um, we actually have some really cool projects now where like they they make like 10-year-olds are making songs that legit sound like rock songs that could be on Spotify.
00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:25.759
Um, so it's once I finally like leaned into that the stuff I was scared about, um, I saw the awesome results, and that encouraged me to keep going, even though I kept yep, falling into pitfalls.
00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:28.640
So I've gotten a lot better, is what I'm trying to say.
00:25:29.279 --> 00:25:32.079
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00:27:53.359 --> 00:28:03.680
David, question for you here, and I'll get right to the question, and that is this you talk a lot about moving music education beyond familiar but limiting models.
00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:11.279
What's one thing we do in music education that everyone seems to accept as normal that you think we need to question?
00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:12.559
Gatekeeping.
00:28:13.039 --> 00:28:13.839
Tell me more.
00:28:14.240 --> 00:28:16.559
Um, well, so I have two main examples.
00:28:16.720 --> 00:28:21.519
One, uh, think about the music that we tend to teach in our field.
00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:25.039
Um and if it comes from our continent.
00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:28.720
So what are the genres created in North America?
00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:34.720
Like the famous ones, rock and roll, country, hip hop, appalacian, jazz.
00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:40.559
Um, but even jazz, so most of these genres we don't do in our uh schools.
00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:44.640
And if we do do them, they're either extracurricular or zero hour.
00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:50.799
Um, so I kind of had a realization a few years ago that we don't even center the music of our own continent.
00:28:50.960 --> 00:29:01.440
Um, and there's nothing wrong with Eurocentric music, but it seems a little weird that we're doing like 98% music from another continent rather than the genre of our own people.
00:29:01.759 --> 00:29:10.240
Um, so I see that as one version of gatekeeping where we're keeping out certain genres or othering them by saying, oh, if we do them, it should be zero hour.
00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:18.000
So as a I I've asked people before, as a thought experiment, what if we had jazz band during the day and concert band was zero hour?
00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:20.640
And sometimes people are like, oh, well, that would ruin the program.
00:29:20.960 --> 00:29:23.039
I'm like, well, that's that's kind of what I'm talking about.
00:29:23.119 --> 00:29:33.200
Like that bias is what I think some of us aren't seeing, is that we are biasing Western Eurocentric concert music as you know, the most important one.
00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:34.559
And that's why it's during the school day.
00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:38.000
And all the other ones we either don't do or um are othered.
00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:41.359
And then the other example is the instruments that we allow.
00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:46.799
Um so we only allow instruments that are for the Eurocentric ensembles.
00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:55.119
So I'm an advocate of what if instead of calling it orchestra, we call it string ensemble, and any instrument that uses string can join it.
00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:56.559
Um, which like guitar.
00:29:56.720 --> 00:30:00.480
Can guitar, like the kids who want to learn guitar, can they be an orchestra class?
00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:03.839
Most schools right now say, no, no, no, we don't allow guitar.
00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:06.640
And if we did guitar, it would be an extracurricular, right?
00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:12.079
So again, we're othering that instrument and all the kids who see themselves in that instrument and want to play it.
00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:19.359
And and we tell them, no, if you want to be in this uh curricular class during the school day, you have to choose one of these Eurocentric instruments.
00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:26.240
Um I once had a family who emigrated from Russia in my school, and their kid took private lessons on accordion.
00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:30.000
Phenomenal accordion at age nine, um, accordion player.
00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:35.119
And their family was, I was the band teacher then, and they said, you know, can can he join band?
00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:38.319
And I said, Oh, like that would be interesting.
00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:41.440
Um, just so you know, I don't know anything about teaching accordion.
00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:43.279
They're like, no, no, no, no, we're not worried about that.
00:30:43.359 --> 00:30:45.039
We just want him to be part of the group.
00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:46.640
He takes private lessons.
00:30:46.799 --> 00:30:49.440
Um, I was like, okay, like we'll we'll figure it out.
00:30:49.519 --> 00:31:01.359
Like, and I ended up arranging music for accordion, and um, I even composed uh element, a first-year accordion concerto to feature him because I was like, oh, I've never had an accordion before, like, let's feature it.
00:31:01.519 --> 00:31:05.519
Um, but I remember talking with some other music colleagues about like, oh guys, guess what?
00:31:05.599 --> 00:31:09.519
Like this accordion player, and they were like, Well, you told the family no, right?
00:31:09.680 --> 00:31:14.000
Like, there's no music for accordion, so what's he gonna do when he gets to middle school?
00:31:14.240 --> 00:31:20.559
Like that kind of mentality of, well, no, the the system, like pieces aren't written for accordion, so we can't allow accordion.
00:31:20.799 --> 00:31:22.240
Kind of like a chicken and egg.
00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:27.359
I was like, Well, maybe we don't allow, maybe pieces aren't written for accordion because we don't allow accordion.
00:31:28.079 --> 00:31:38.480
Um so to answer your question, those are the two gatekeeping things that I see the most that I it's kind of like a bias that I don't know if um especially band teachers necessarily notice.
00:31:39.200 --> 00:31:46.640
You have a program, an initiative um called Changemakers in Music Education, right?
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:51.599
And on your website, very nice website, by the way, nice design, like the colors.
00:31:52.079 --> 00:32:00.400
Changemakers in Music Education brings together music educators who share a dream that every student will see themselves as a musician.
00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:07.440
To get there, we need to build a music education system that is more inclusive, relevant, and human-centered.
00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:10.720
How did this begin and what's been the impact?
00:32:11.119 --> 00:32:12.640
Yeah, I appreciate the question.
00:32:12.799 --> 00:32:20.799
Um, it began through a grant through the Minnesota Department of Education called Culturally Responsive Arts Education.
00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:28.160
Um, and they there were, I think, 60 arts teachers, so music, theater, visual art across the state.
00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:38.480
Um, and we learned about anti-racism and equity and systemic change and how do we actually make arts education more inclusive and better for students.
00:32:38.559 --> 00:32:44.720
Um, and then they said, hey, and we have grant money to fund a project that you can do to help make change.
00:32:44.799 --> 00:32:47.680
Um, and a lot of people did things in their classroom.
00:32:47.839 --> 00:32:50.880
Um, some people decided to do a district-wide initiative.
00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:59.279
And I was sitting there being like, oh, I've worked so many years on making changes in my classroom, and I'm already on a leadership role in my district.
00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:04.400
I kind of want to do something statewide to like try to move that needle a little bit more.
00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:12.559
Um, and what I landed on was what if like I found other innovative music educators thinking along the same lines I am.
00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:20.640
Um, because I found in my uh lived experience it's been really lonely and isolating being an innovator in music education.
00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:29.359
Um it's kind of like that polarization of if you start doing things differently, like people kick me to the island, like you're not one of us anymore.
00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:41.759
Um and I I figured, well, there might be other people that have been experiencing that, and maybe if we banded together, we could like lean on each other's brilliance and innovation and start to make a movement, a coalition.
00:33:41.920 --> 00:33:46.319
Um, so to answer your question, that's where the idea started, and that's kind of where it's at right now.
00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:49.920
I've I've found seven other people in Minnesota so far.
00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:56.000
Um, so there's eight of us, and I'm hoping by the end of my teacher of the year year that that number will grow up to like 80.
00:33:56.079 --> 00:34:05.039
And maybe by the end of my career, it'll be 8,000 across the nation, and what we're doing will start to become the norm, and it won't be a change maker anymore.
00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:06.880
It'll just be well, well, that's how we teach music.
00:34:06.960 --> 00:34:13.599
And oh, you mean like 30 years ago people didn't do improvising all the time or songwriting wasn't really a thing they did?
00:34:13.840 --> 00:34:14.159
Like it.
00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:14.800
I love it.
00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:15.360
Like it.
00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:16.079
Yep too.
00:34:16.400 --> 00:34:17.679
Peter, you had your hand up.
00:34:18.159 --> 00:34:21.840
No, I was just holding my fist in the air because I think that's that's great.
00:34:21.920 --> 00:34:31.119
And uh um I am not nearly the change maker you are, but uh I've really yeah, I'll give you that.
00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:47.920
Um, but I continue to push for change in how we teach so that every child can make music and whatever that form is gonna look, and that um we don't teach in a way I would also say gatekeepers are we teach in a way that only some of the smart kids survive.
00:34:48.159 --> 00:34:57.599
Um, like I was mentioning earlier, and I think that um our pedagogy needs to change, and our exception, our accepting improvisation, all these things.
00:34:57.679 --> 00:34:59.119
I'm I'm I'm all in.
00:34:59.199 --> 00:35:02.800
Um and I just think you but you were in your year eight.
00:35:03.519 --> 00:35:04.800
You were in year eight.
00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:27.519
You gained confidence, you were in a master's degree, and then I have graduate students that are even changing schools after teaching nearly eight years, and they're like, This first year was just like I was almost like literally a first year again, because every all the processes, you know, things were new, you're re-establishing yourself, you don't know any students when you walk in the door.
00:35:27.679 --> 00:35:40.480
And I just think like, how can we make how can we help build that's why I was asking for resources, but how do we build um confident teachers to go with you on this journey?
00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:42.480
Like how how can we make this easier?
00:35:42.639 --> 00:35:49.920
How can we fold them in, try some things, gain confidence in this way, and then you know, storm the hill?
00:35:50.400 --> 00:36:12.159
Yeah, and uh I think maybe just a short answer is dialogue and talking with people, and um, I don't know, sometimes I think of like the political polarization and how I don't see too many people on the extremes talking with each other, and then that leaves so much space for um miscommunication and assumptions and tribalism.
00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:19.840
And in my lived experience, I've experienced that in the music education world too, where um I was like a super traditionalist band teacher.
00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:27.119
And then as soon as I started questioning things and changing things, just like completely shunned, and you're not one of us anymore.
00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:33.440
Um, and it makes me wonder like, oh, like what if we just had more dialogue and like we I think we do kind of want the same thing.
00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:34.960
We want what's best for kids.
00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:45.119
And um so that that's kind of the intent of change makers, is like let's let's talk, let's make a community classical saxophonist.
00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:48.079
I mean, you're kind of getting in on all ends, aren't you?
00:36:48.320 --> 00:37:00.159
You know, like innovator and then uh and you can't force people to change their mindsets, you can't force people to do things that are scary, but you can talk with them and you can model things.
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:09.519
So again, the change makers, not only is it a community of like-minded people that I would encourage any listeners who see themselves as change makers to explore and join.
00:37:09.679 --> 00:37:13.679
Um, but it's also uh people modeling this is how we did it.
00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:22.400
And this is my like, yeah, I went through the the really challenging trial and error, and I still don't feel like I'm an expert at music literacy, but um I've read the research.
00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:27.280
I believe like I'm I'm trying to do it, all comes down to doing what I think is best for kids.
00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:31.440
Um, and I want them to be well-rounded musicians, not just button pushers.
00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:37.199
Um, I want my students of color to see themselves reflected in high school instrumental music.
00:37:37.360 --> 00:37:44.320
Whereas I think right now the national trend is only 15% of high schoolers are in instrumental groups and they're majority white.
00:37:44.480 --> 00:37:47.920
So I think there's some reasons why that's a trend nationwide.
00:37:48.079 --> 00:37:53.199
Um, and we can't just put our heads in the sand and be like, well, I'm just gonna keep doing band the way I've always done it.
00:37:53.360 --> 00:37:55.679
Um, because I actually think that's existential.
00:37:55.920 --> 00:38:02.880
If we don't adapt and change, I think it's a matter of, I don't know, another decade before society says, why do we even have this in our schools anymore?
00:38:03.039 --> 00:38:06.159
This isn't relevant to our kids, this isn't value anymore.
00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:08.400
Let's just make it all extracurricular.
00:38:08.480 --> 00:38:10.079
Um, kind of like Blockbuster, right?
00:38:10.159 --> 00:38:17.440
Like, are we the blockbuster of the world right now, thinking if we just double down on renting out saxophones, like it'll eventually get better?
00:38:17.599 --> 00:38:21.039
Like I'd be like, well, no, I think we need to adapt as a field.
00:38:21.199 --> 00:38:29.840
We need to do more electric guitars, we need to do more singing, songwriting, we need to do more electronic music, um, more students as co-teachers.
00:38:29.920 --> 00:38:34.639
And I believe we can't teach creativity unless the kids are making choices.
00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:38.480
Um, otherwise, they're just following the choices I'm making, and that's compliance.
00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:39.519
That's not creativity.
00:38:39.679 --> 00:38:42.480
So I know I'm starting to go down the rabbit here, so I'll stop.
00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:53.840
Uh David, have you found that um in working on improvisation and songwriting, which you clearly you're passionate about, that it makes a difference what age students you're working with.
00:38:53.920 --> 00:39:01.840
So it seems to me like perhaps you're drawn to working with students that are younger and younger as a result of that, a passion about that type that um topic.
00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:02.559
Yeah.
00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:05.760
Um I and I wouldn't say I'm drawn to younger students because of that.
00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:14.639
Um honestly, I was drawn to younger students because I got frustrated with how stubborn the the older system, like high school systems are so rigid.
00:39:14.880 --> 00:39:17.440
And I thought, hey, elementary seems less rigid.
00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:20.639
I think I can do more of my innovative ideas at that age.
00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:23.280
So I actually like teaching all age levels.
00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:29.599
Um, but I believe the right age to start improvisation would be the right age it is for kids to start speaking.
00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:41.760
So if we believe that English is best learned with kids babbling when they're, I don't know, half a year old, I think that's the same age that kids should be improvising because I see music as a language similar to English.
00:39:41.920 --> 00:39:45.119
So babbling in music should start as early as possible.
00:39:45.760 --> 00:39:47.440
You're still babbling away over there.
00:39:47.840 --> 00:39:55.440
I teach my students to play the notes on the page, and it is improvisation every time because it's usually not what is written.
00:39:55.760 --> 00:39:58.639
So I feel like I'm doing a great job here.
00:39:58.800 --> 00:39:59.599
Let's talk about three.
00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:02.800
Creativity abounds in Christopher's classroom.
00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:03.840
That's right.
00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:07.840
So um you've received a lot of recognition, right?
00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:09.039
Minnesota Teacher of the Year.
00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:10.880
Chris Scott, Wisconsin Teacher of the Year.
00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:11.360
When was that?
00:40:11.519 --> 00:40:12.079
16?
00:40:13.039 --> 00:40:14.000
10 years ago.
00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:14.880
Decade.
00:40:14.960 --> 00:40:15.280
I'm old.
00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:28.400
Um how does this how has this changed your I mean, are you seeing more people in change makers?
00:40:28.639 --> 00:40:30.719
Is is your megaphone bigger?
00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:33.599
Are people starting to pay attention more because of that?
00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:35.199
How is that helping?
00:40:35.440 --> 00:40:39.280
And are are there challenges with that, to be honest?
00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:41.599
Yeah, I appreciate the question.
00:40:41.760 --> 00:40:43.760
Um, I'm trying to be intentional.
00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:47.920
Um, I've been trying to do systemic change work for years now.
00:40:48.079 --> 00:40:53.760
And now that I have the spotlight on me as teacher of the year, I feel like, okay, like there's a lot of fuel behind this now.
00:40:53.920 --> 00:41:02.800
So there's a certain amount of pressure of like, okay, this year is like, I really want to build a coalition and make a difference and move that needle.
00:41:02.960 --> 00:41:05.280
Um so yes, I have been meeting even more people.
00:41:05.360 --> 00:41:08.719
Um, I'm also on NAFME's Council for Innovations.
00:41:09.039 --> 00:41:11.920
I'm the Midwest, um, the Midwest representative for that.
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:14.400
So I feel like I've met people through that.
00:41:14.639 --> 00:41:19.840
Um, I'm now getting asked to do like keynotes and visits to other colleges and districts.
00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:29.039
Um so I feel like um, especially the younger generation of music teachers, what I perceive is they are they have so many innovative, brilliant ideas.
00:41:29.199 --> 00:41:34.559
Um so I'm try trying to encourage them to like, hey, like I I we desperately need you.
00:41:34.719 --> 00:41:36.400
Our field needs innovators.
00:41:36.639 --> 00:41:45.199
And when you enter the field, you're gonna run into a ton of barriers because the system is meant to perpetuate the system.
00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:50.159
So there's you're gonna meet a ton of gatekeeping barriers that I also met.
00:41:50.320 --> 00:41:51.360
But please keep going.
00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:52.239
We need you.
00:41:52.400 --> 00:41:58.800
Um lean on this coalition of change makers when you're starting to feel frustrated, because we've gone through it too.
00:41:58.960 --> 00:42:08.079
Um, and my hope, again, is that the more people that make it through the gatekeeping barriers, the eventually the fewer gate gates we'll have.
00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:12.239
I really enjoyed your story, David, about the accordion player.
00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:21.440
Because I think it is uh well, um, we all have unique students that teach us things, and uh I clearly that was the one that taught you something um in return.
00:42:21.840 --> 00:42:34.960
Um and it also shows that you're a flexible teacher, and uh it seems to me like that skill set has served you well um not just before, you know, eight years ago, but um not just eight years ago, but uh in general.
00:42:35.199 --> 00:42:38.800
Um is that something you care to comment on, just being flexible in general?
00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:43.119
Yeah, well, what came to mind first is I just appreciate that reflection.
00:42:43.280 --> 00:42:47.199
Um, because like I said, it hasn't been easy throughout much of my career.
00:42:47.360 --> 00:43:01.679
Um so it feels nice to be like seen and like yeah, I I do think that's a skill set I have is not being so rigid and being flexible and trying to put the kids before what feels comfortable to me.
00:43:01.760 --> 00:43:06.079
Because if I just did what was comfortable to me, I probably wouldn't have changed much as a music teacher.
00:43:06.320 --> 00:43:13.679
I also note noted that you know, you obviously have deep respect for traditional um instrumental learning.
00:43:13.760 --> 00:43:15.679
I mean, you you're a classical saxophone player.
00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:17.599
Come on, I mean come on, yeah.
00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:19.599
It does not get any more traditional.
00:43:20.079 --> 00:43:20.239
Right.
00:43:20.719 --> 00:43:21.599
That's it.
00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:25.199
Um, and to do it well, you have to be extraordinary.
00:43:25.440 --> 00:43:36.400
So I you know, I'm sure that that skill, uh, you know, at least the tenacity of what it takes to do that has served you well in um how you're approaching change in your classroom right now.
00:43:36.719 --> 00:43:44.960
Yeah, I appreciate that too, because like I like I mentioned before, like the the political spectrums and how I think sometimes I'm perceived as being so far.
00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:47.920
Like he's an innovator, he doesn't care about band.
00:43:48.639 --> 00:43:51.840
And then personally, like, no, like I do love band.
00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:54.480
I'm a classical saxphonist, I'm a band kid.
00:43:54.559 --> 00:43:56.480
I like my whole thing.
00:43:58.079 --> 00:43:59.599
Yeah, I played on that, like I like it.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:01.039
And both can be true.
00:44:01.119 --> 00:44:03.039
Like it's a both and not an either or.
00:44:03.119 --> 00:44:12.800
Like I can love band stuff and still see how the system is not currently set up best for all kids, especially our kids of color and low socioeconomic kids.
00:44:12.960 --> 00:44:14.719
Like the system is not set up for them.
00:44:14.960 --> 00:44:15.360
Peter.
00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:35.199
Who are some musical influences for you that not only led you down the path of the beginning, which might also be traditional, but maybe who are influences that gave you the courage to break forth and do what you're doing and spearhead this?
00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:36.320
Okay.
00:44:36.400 --> 00:44:37.920
I thought you might ask that question.
00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:40.320
So I have a two-part answer.
00:44:40.480 --> 00:44:44.079
One, there was a professor that totally changed my life in a good way.
00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:45.760
So I will talk about him.
00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:53.360
But to be honest, I think most of my lived experience has been learning how I don't want to teach from other people.
00:44:53.599 --> 00:45:03.519
Um like I've had so many toxic, bad experiences that what I took away was like, oh, I do not want to teach like that.
00:45:03.599 --> 00:45:07.199
Um I once had a teacher say, you need to yell at the kids more, otherwise they'll never respect you.
00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:07.840
What?
00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:10.719
And I was like, uh, I don't think so.
00:45:11.039 --> 00:45:12.400
Um yeah.
00:45:12.880 --> 00:45:14.719
So yeah.
00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:24.480
Um unfortunately, there's not a ton of names that for me personally come up, except for Steve Jordheim, who is the saxophone professor at Lawrence, where I got my undergrad.
00:45:24.719 --> 00:45:31.440
Um, he really put me on this path because before him, I actively did not want to be a teacher at all.
00:45:31.679 --> 00:45:33.840
Um, like I really resisted being.
00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:37.199
I told people I nope, never be a teacher, don't want it.
00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:42.159
Um, because I wanted to be a world-renowned classical saxophonist.
00:45:42.639 --> 00:45:50.559
Um, and I kind of had this belief that, like, well, no, I'm gonna be so good that I don't want to lower myself to being a teacher, right?
00:45:50.719 --> 00:45:54.239
Like, I'm gonna break out and become a real musician.
00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:58.239
Um and Steve Jordheim said, Yeah, yeah, I hear you.
00:45:58.480 --> 00:46:01.519
And even as a saxophonist, you're gonna have to give lessons.
00:46:01.679 --> 00:46:08.079
So you should probably take at least one pedagogy course so you understand a little bit of the science of teaching.
00:46:08.320 --> 00:46:09.760
And I was like, okay, fine.
00:46:09.920 --> 00:46:13.519
Um, and that one course completely blew my mind.
00:46:13.679 --> 00:46:20.960
Um, and I think it's because before that course, I thought teaching was just like intuitive, like people were just like born good teachers.
00:46:21.039 --> 00:46:23.360
I didn't realize there was a science to teaching.
00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:23.760
Yes.
00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:26.079
And he, yeah, he demystified that.
00:46:26.239 --> 00:46:33.119
He showed, like, oh no, no, there's these things called scaffolding and simplification and modeling and imitation.
00:46:33.280 --> 00:46:41.599
And then not only like was he like teaching me these things, and my eyes were then I went to my lesson, and then he could show me, he's like, Oh, and see what I'm doing here.
00:46:41.760 --> 00:46:44.480
I'm isolating this and scaffolding it for you.
00:46:44.559 --> 00:46:50.400
And like, oh, now I'm gonna demonstrate on my sax phone, and now you try to imitate that same sound you heard.
00:46:50.480 --> 00:46:54.159
And I was just like, that's how you're getting me to be such a good saxphonist.
00:46:54.320 --> 00:46:55.280
Like, that's how you're teaching me.
00:46:55.360 --> 00:46:56.639
You're like, you're an amazing teacher.
00:46:56.800 --> 00:46:58.639
And it just made me fall in love with pedagogy.
00:46:58.960 --> 00:46:59.840
And here we are now.
00:46:59.920 --> 00:47:04.159
I'm like somehow a teacher of the year when I didn't even want to be a teacher.
00:47:04.320 --> 00:47:10.079
So um, yeah, Steve Jordanheim really uh impacted me at a time in my life when I needed that.
00:47:10.320 --> 00:47:11.599
That's absolutely beautiful.
00:47:11.760 --> 00:47:20.400
I mean, I I went through the but I had this moment where I'm like, no, I just want I just want to keep teaching because somebody offered me a graduate program.
00:47:20.880 --> 00:47:27.679
But then once I started watching student teachers, having student teachers work with our our district, we had a lot of them.
00:47:27.840 --> 00:47:34.159
I was like, oh you don't all the good teachers came from the same schools.
00:47:35.039 --> 00:47:47.679
And it almost had to do with their musical ability, it had to do with their reflective ability and the concepts and then thinking behind and being in the room, really being in the room and and having enough bandwidth to pay attention.
00:47:47.840 --> 00:47:48.800
It was beautiful.
00:47:49.039 --> 00:47:52.559
And then all I wanted to do was teach teachers because we have to do this better.
00:47:52.719 --> 00:47:53.840
We have to do this better.
00:47:54.159 --> 00:47:54.400
Yeah.
00:47:54.559 --> 00:48:01.440
Steve did this cool thing where he um had us video record ourselves giving a lesson, like a real lesson to like a beginner.
00:48:01.599 --> 00:48:05.440
And then we would watch the video and he would like, oh, and like why do you think you were struggling here?
00:48:05.519 --> 00:48:10.159
And oh, next time I would recommend you demonstrate more rather than just talk at them for 10 minutes.
00:48:10.239 --> 00:48:13.599
And and that was so helpful because it was me teaching.
00:48:13.760 --> 00:48:14.559
Uh, I don't know.
00:48:14.719 --> 00:48:16.880
It's he was a genius pedagog.
00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:20.559
Speaking of genius, it's now time for a speed round.
00:48:20.639 --> 00:48:21.119
That's right.
00:48:21.280 --> 00:48:22.000
Hang on.
00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:28.320
Here's the thing you live in Minnesota, but what do you know about soda?
00:48:28.639 --> 00:48:29.119
That's right.
00:48:29.199 --> 00:48:32.559
We're gonna ask five questions about that fuzz fizzy pop thing.
00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:35.039
It's what are you talking about?
00:48:35.199 --> 00:48:36.159
That's a nice pivot.
00:48:36.239 --> 00:48:36.559
Come on.
00:48:36.639 --> 00:48:38.719
I thought you were called pop though.
00:48:38.960 --> 00:48:40.320
Yes, well played.
00:48:41.440 --> 00:48:43.360
He's gotta take that question out now.
00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:45.920
Anyone can uh can play along.
00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:46.480
Here we go.
00:48:46.639 --> 00:48:53.760
Number one, if you put a can of regular coke and a can of dye coke in a tub of water, what happens?
00:48:53.920 --> 00:48:56.400
Is it A, they both sink.
00:48:56.719 --> 00:48:58.239
B, they both float.
00:48:58.559 --> 00:49:02.480
C, the regular coat coke sinks, but the Diet Coke floats.
00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:06.880
Or D, they float for exactly 10 seconds, then panic.
00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:11.119
I'm gonna go with they both float.
00:49:11.840 --> 00:49:13.119
I concur.
00:49:13.760 --> 00:49:14.559
Philip.
00:49:14.880 --> 00:49:15.519
Sinky.
00:49:16.159 --> 00:49:17.280
It is actually C.
00:49:17.599 --> 00:49:20.639
Regular Coke sinks, but the Diet Coke floats.
00:49:20.960 --> 00:49:21.599
Really?
00:49:22.320 --> 00:49:22.960
Yeah, C now.
00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:25.199
Do you have a reason or did AI just tell you that?
00:49:25.519 --> 00:49:26.719
No, AI just told me that.
00:49:26.880 --> 00:49:30.719
Discovery floor computers now have primary control of critical vehicle functions.
00:49:31.039 --> 00:49:31.599
Number two.
00:49:32.320 --> 00:49:34.639
I want to say this is fascinating, but uh it's not.
00:49:34.880 --> 00:49:38.000
It's not fascinating, and I don't actually think it's accurate, but keep going.
00:49:38.719 --> 00:49:44.719
Why is drinking carbonated uh beverages in space surprisingly difficult, like outer space?
00:49:44.880 --> 00:49:48.559
A, the bubbles refuse to cooperate because there's no normal buoyancy.
00:49:48.880 --> 00:49:51.280
B, soda freezes instantly in space.
00:49:51.440 --> 00:49:58.960
C, the carbonation escapes through the astronaut's helmet, or D, NASA requires all astronauts to drink root beer instead.
00:49:59.679 --> 00:50:02.960
Wait, so they're they're like in a space station, or they're actually in outer space?
00:50:03.119 --> 00:50:05.119
Because if they're in outer space, it freezes.
00:50:05.440 --> 00:50:05.679
Okay.
00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:09.519
Then I'm gonna go with A, the the one about the bubbles.
00:50:10.159 --> 00:50:11.119
Yep, you got it.
00:50:11.199 --> 00:50:12.079
That's exactly right.
00:50:12.239 --> 00:50:13.280
Phil, did you get that?
00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:14.000
No, you didn't.
00:50:14.079 --> 00:50:15.440
Okay, there's only 10 more of these.
00:50:15.920 --> 00:50:17.760
Uh just a shit?
00:50:20.480 --> 00:50:22.400
He doesn't know what speed or round means.
00:50:22.480 --> 00:50:23.360
Keep going, Chris.
00:50:23.920 --> 00:50:29.360
What was Coca-Cola originally made with that sounds absolutely unbelievable today?
00:50:29.519 --> 00:50:32.320
A, a small amount of cocoa leaf extract.
00:50:32.559 --> 00:50:38.719
B, pickle juice, C, powdered marshmallow, or D, ground up pencil shavings.
00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:41.840
Thought you were gonna say cocaine.
00:50:42.079 --> 00:50:44.320
Um pickle juice?
00:50:44.719 --> 00:50:46.880
I'm gonna go with the cocoa leaf extract.
00:50:47.199 --> 00:50:47.920
Pencil.
00:50:48.239 --> 00:50:49.119
It was the pet.
00:50:49.440 --> 00:50:49.920
No, it isn't.
00:50:50.079 --> 00:50:53.679
It's the small amount of cocoa leaf extract that is true.
00:50:53.840 --> 00:50:54.079
A.
00:50:54.239 --> 00:50:54.639
Uh uh.
00:50:54.719 --> 00:50:55.280
Good try.
00:50:55.440 --> 00:50:56.320
We got one more of these.
00:50:56.400 --> 00:50:57.119
Can you believe it?
00:50:57.199 --> 00:50:58.000
Only one more.
00:50:58.400 --> 00:50:58.960
Uh I can.
00:50:59.119 --> 00:51:00.159
Well, that's good.
00:51:00.559 --> 00:51:07.840
When when soda was first becoming popular, what was it sometimes promoted as?
00:51:08.159 --> 00:51:16.639
A a medicinal drink, B, a substitute for breakfast, C, a cure for boredom, or D, a treatment for poor dancing?
00:51:16.960 --> 00:51:18.159
A and D.
00:51:19.920 --> 00:51:23.599
Correct answer is all of the above.
00:51:23.679 --> 00:51:24.079
That's right.
00:51:24.239 --> 00:51:25.920
Congratulations, you got it right.
00:51:26.079 --> 00:51:28.159
What do you what does he get, Phil?
00:51:29.039 --> 00:51:30.880
Uh he gets to stop.
00:51:31.280 --> 00:51:34.719
Get out of this podcast pretty soon, sooner than later.
00:51:35.039 --> 00:51:41.519
Hey, now you can put that you you survived the Beyond Art List podcast as part of your uh accolades.
00:51:41.679 --> 00:51:45.119
Uh David, what a uh pleasure to get to know you and meet you.
00:51:45.280 --> 00:51:47.280
You are definitely a change agent.
00:51:47.440 --> 00:51:52.000
And I love the fact that you don't take it for face value.
00:51:52.079 --> 00:52:04.719
And you're doing all of this and you're looking at the system in order to help, especially marginalized students that may not benefit, or well, I won't even say may, that don't benefit from um the way the system is built right now.
00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:07.760
So I appreciate the work you're doing and stay courageous.
00:52:07.840 --> 00:52:11.840
You know, we need we need innovative thinkers like you to help push those boundaries.
00:52:12.159 --> 00:52:12.719
Thank you.
00:52:13.199 --> 00:52:32.400
You remind me a lot of another Teacher of the Year who was a band director, who's on the on the on the screen, who also is willing to see the right answer and go after it and bring a megaphone along and uh bring people on board.
00:52:32.559 --> 00:52:39.440
So I'm honored that you're here and I wish you all the best in your continued um change making.
00:52:39.679 --> 00:52:41.440
And I can't wait to share with my students.
00:52:41.840 --> 00:52:48.719
Yeah, David, let us know if there's a way that uh we can help amplify your um mission and cause and what you're doing with your students.
00:52:48.800 --> 00:52:51.360
Uh it's you're really doing incredible work.
00:52:51.519 --> 00:53:03.440
Um uh and hopefully bringing music to all you know, not only um people who don't normally see it, but people in school who might not see it and in the way that you're presenting it.
00:53:03.599 --> 00:53:04.239
So thank you.
00:53:05.440 --> 00:53:06.800
Hey, great guest.
00:53:07.599 --> 00:53:08.079
Thanks.
00:53:08.800 --> 00:53:12.480
How did you meet David just through the being a teacher of the year?
00:53:12.559 --> 00:53:16.159
Now you're all in the same club and have like a uh No.
00:53:16.320 --> 00:53:25.039
Eric Songa reached out and he said that David had been named and that he had some questions and he thought, you know, for some reason talking to me would help.
00:53:25.360 --> 00:53:39.199
Uh but so we got talking and it was actually perfect timing because we were just going over the language piece and trying to wrap our heads around this literacy component to the standards, and man, he gave me some great resources and uh yeah, it was.
00:53:39.840 --> 00:53:40.719
Did you include those?
00:53:40.800 --> 00:53:45.760
Because I really tried to get more resources out of them, and I just think any resources.
00:53:45.840 --> 00:53:48.320
I mean, his website's got a ton of resources on it, too.
00:53:48.480 --> 00:53:49.440
It was really nice.
00:53:49.760 --> 00:53:51.199
There's some interesting things about that.
00:53:51.360 --> 00:53:52.000
Well, welcome back.
00:53:52.159 --> 00:53:53.119
Where were you, Phil?
00:53:53.519 --> 00:53:54.320
Out and about.
00:53:54.559 --> 00:53:54.880
Okay.
00:53:55.199 --> 00:53:55.840
All right.
00:53:57.840 --> 00:53:59.360
Coach, good to see you.
00:54:02.719 --> 00:54:06.000
Coach good to be seen.
00:54:06.159 --> 00:54:07.920
Um, my friend.
00:54:08.800 --> 00:54:09.679
How did we do tonight?
00:54:09.760 --> 00:54:10.800
Did we do okay?
00:54:11.039 --> 00:54:15.920
Peter's frozen right now, but um it's probably a good look for Peter.
00:54:16.480 --> 00:54:18.960
That was the nicest things you've ever said about me, Peter.
00:54:19.039 --> 00:54:20.639
Thank you for those kind words.
00:54:20.880 --> 00:54:26.480
Near the end of that, when you're talking about the teacher of the year thing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:54:26.559 --> 00:54:27.039
Nice way.
00:54:27.360 --> 00:54:28.719
A bit of courageous.
00:54:28.960 --> 00:54:30.239
You were talking about me, right?
00:54:30.320 --> 00:54:32.000
You weren't talking about him, weren't you?
00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:32.400
Chris?
00:54:32.559 --> 00:54:35.519
Yeah, if you look on the chat, I responded to your question.
00:54:37.199 --> 00:54:38.320
Hell no.
00:54:41.039 --> 00:54:44.079
We never have a penguin lightning round again.
00:54:44.239 --> 00:54:45.920
And the same with the soda pop.
00:54:46.239 --> 00:54:47.199
Never again.
00:54:47.920 --> 00:54:48.880
That's good stuff.
00:54:49.280 --> 00:54:50.480
That is good, isn't it?
00:54:50.719 --> 00:54:51.119
No, it's not.
00:54:51.440 --> 00:54:51.760
No, it's not.
00:54:52.079 --> 00:55:00.480
Hey, coach, coach, you often ask Coach, you often offer sort of collective um critique, you know, about the podcast in general.
00:55:00.639 --> 00:55:02.800
But I think it's time tonight to get specific.
00:55:02.960 --> 00:55:04.400
So let's narrow it down.
00:55:04.480 --> 00:55:10.000
Let's give each uh of our hosts like a specific thing that uh they're really fouling up.
00:55:10.400 --> 00:55:11.360
Let's start with your brother.
00:55:12.079 --> 00:55:13.440
Yeah, let's start with Chris.
00:55:17.679 --> 00:55:19.519
I just go back to the lightning round.
00:55:19.599 --> 00:55:22.480
That's lightning, those good.
00:55:22.800 --> 00:55:23.840
That's indefensible.
00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:29.840
There's nothing you can say that is defensible for what you have produced in now.
00:55:29.920 --> 00:55:36.079
The last two lightning rounds that I've listened of yours have been the penguin one and then the the soda pop one.
00:55:36.239 --> 00:55:36.880
Terrible.
00:55:37.199 --> 00:55:38.239
Indefensible.
00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:40.239
But but you remember them.
00:55:40.480 --> 00:55:40.800
Oh, yeah.
00:55:40.880 --> 00:55:44.239
I remember the last time I threw up.
00:55:44.639 --> 00:55:51.519
It's not like that's a good and it was in my mouth when I had to listen to that dingy question.
00:55:51.920 --> 00:55:52.320
Just no more.
00:55:52.639 --> 00:55:53.920
Maybe just time about that.
00:55:54.000 --> 00:55:55.039
Can we can we cut that?
00:55:58.159 --> 00:55:59.760
And it's a new clip.
00:56:00.559 --> 00:56:09.599
Uh tuba blues are back on the great guests, and then you ask them these questions that they leave baffled.
00:56:09.920 --> 00:56:10.159
Okay.
00:56:10.480 --> 00:56:11.119
Okay, fine.
00:56:11.199 --> 00:56:12.079
All right, that's fine.
00:56:12.159 --> 00:56:12.960
I can adapt.
00:56:13.119 --> 00:56:13.679
I can change.
00:56:13.760 --> 00:56:14.800
Okay, do Peter next.
00:56:14.880 --> 00:56:15.679
This is Lightning Next.
00:56:16.400 --> 00:56:22.480
It shows that Miles has left the house because I think Miles had an influence on the lightning round.
00:56:22.719 --> 00:56:28.079
And I don't believe that since Miles has left the house, the lightning rounds have gone down to two.
00:56:28.320 --> 00:56:28.480
Yeah.
00:56:28.880 --> 00:56:30.400
I think that's good to leave me alone.
00:56:30.719 --> 00:56:33.280
I I do think the alone time's not good for Chris.
00:56:33.440 --> 00:56:34.960
I think you spent too much time in that room.
00:56:35.199 --> 00:56:38.480
Too much time that video thing in the beginning is a prime example.
00:56:38.559 --> 00:56:40.079
We uh okay.
00:56:40.960 --> 00:56:41.920
Let's fix Peter.
00:56:42.159 --> 00:56:42.880
All right, get to me.
00:56:44.000 --> 00:56:44.719
Make me better.
00:56:45.039 --> 00:56:47.519
Lord, I was born a rambling man.
00:56:48.079 --> 00:56:48.559
Yeah.
00:56:49.360 --> 00:56:51.599
A couple of them did get a little long there.
00:56:52.639 --> 00:56:53.119
A little?
00:56:53.440 --> 00:56:57.519
It's uh it's you go around the block a couple times, buddy.
00:56:57.679 --> 00:56:58.079
You know?
00:56:58.320 --> 00:57:02.079
It's that it's that passion coming back in too many words.
00:57:03.280 --> 00:57:03.840
Yeah.
00:57:04.239 --> 00:57:05.679
But it's there though.
00:57:05.840 --> 00:57:07.039
The passion is there.
00:57:07.519 --> 00:57:08.400
Something's there.
00:57:08.800 --> 00:57:09.599
Okay, go fill.
00:57:10.079 --> 00:57:12.400
I think I think I know what Coach is gonna say, but I don't know.
00:57:13.039 --> 00:57:13.440
But I'm ready.
00:57:13.519 --> 00:57:13.760
I'm ready.
00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:16.159
He rambled one of those longer than I did.
00:57:16.320 --> 00:57:19.840
I'm just gonna say I don't I don't know how you fix perfection.
00:57:20.079 --> 00:57:20.400
What?
00:57:21.039 --> 00:57:24.079
Oh god! Did you pay me for this?
00:57:26.400 --> 00:57:27.440
Oh my god.
00:57:28.639 --> 00:57:29.519
No good.
00:57:30.400 --> 00:57:40.719
There's obviously one person on this podcast that kind of stands above the wet rest, and they're questioning and many other things, and it's obviously Phil.
00:57:40.960 --> 00:57:44.400
Humor, Phil, questioning, Phil.
00:57:44.960 --> 00:57:53.679
Now, my favorite moments on the podcast where I have a fail are when I'm like halfway through a sentence and I have utterly no idea how to complete it.
00:57:53.920 --> 00:57:54.400
We're good.
00:57:55.440 --> 00:58:03.519
Just no idea where like mine are long, but I start talking, I just go back too far thinking anybody needs to know that information.
00:58:03.840 --> 00:58:07.519
But you just start talking, and then like you're like a salmon.
00:58:07.840 --> 00:58:08.960
I think I'm going to play.
00:58:11.599 --> 00:58:17.119
Some little happening in there where he's improvising as he goes because it's true.
00:58:17.440 --> 00:58:18.559
I know I can get this to work.
00:58:18.800 --> 00:58:21.039
Just keep hitting it with a stick.
00:58:21.280 --> 00:58:21.599
Yeah.
00:58:22.559 --> 00:58:23.840
Hey, I do have an idea.
00:58:24.079 --> 00:58:27.519
And Peter actually played to it here just moments ago.
00:58:27.760 --> 00:58:29.119
Here's the idea.
00:58:29.440 --> 00:58:43.119
Can you, my dear brother, build some sort of resource for all of the rest of us that contains some of the things alluded to or mentioned in the podcast.
00:58:43.760 --> 00:58:48.719
And I know you say you put it in the show notes, but I don't check the show notes.
00:58:49.599 --> 00:58:53.840
I I need another, I need a beyond the art list resource page.
00:58:54.559 --> 00:58:59.199
I need a beyond the art list resource page that you can put some of the things.
00:58:59.360 --> 00:59:00.079
You're muted.
00:59:01.360 --> 00:59:03.039
No, he's just talking quietly.
00:59:03.360 --> 00:59:03.679
Oh.
00:59:05.360 --> 00:59:06.400
But we need a beyond there.
00:59:06.800 --> 00:59:12.320
Beyond the arts, art list media page or resource page that contains some of these things.
00:59:12.400 --> 00:59:14.079
You you referenced some reading.
00:59:14.400 --> 00:59:15.599
Uh what was that, Peter?
00:59:15.679 --> 00:59:17.440
You mentioned a book in the first episode.
00:59:17.760 --> 00:59:19.679
Yeah, Teaching Rhythm, David Newell.
00:59:19.840 --> 00:59:23.679
Yeah, that was I'll put my favorite Grisham novels in there.
00:59:24.079 --> 00:59:24.480
Yes.
00:59:24.800 --> 00:59:25.039
Okay.
00:59:26.320 --> 00:59:31.119
So the I So I think this is a great idea, Coach, like many of your ideas.
00:59:31.280 --> 00:59:43.039
Um, but I will also say, like, he's just gonna go through the Buzz Sprout page, pull all of the things, and then he's gonna put them on another Buzz Sprout page.
00:59:43.199 --> 00:59:44.880
Yeah, and then you're gonna get there.
00:59:45.519 --> 00:59:47.280
I don't know if that's quite what I'm looking for.
00:59:47.840 --> 00:59:50.400
Or maybe we could put it on the Beyond the Notes page.
00:59:50.559 --> 00:59:53.440
We could we could pull people to your uh actual website.
00:59:53.760 --> 00:59:55.119
I'll uh you know what?
00:59:55.199 --> 01:00:01.599
I will talk to our webmaster and uh ask ask the webmaster to get this done.
01:00:02.000 --> 01:00:02.880
Oh gosh.
01:00:03.360 --> 01:00:06.000
I've been I've been wanting to reach out to that person for a while.
01:00:06.320 --> 01:00:06.639
Yes.
01:00:06.800 --> 01:00:15.199
I'm gonna I'm gonna get right on that and uh it's good assistant to the regional manager and see if they can they can work on that for you, coach.
01:00:15.280 --> 01:00:15.440
Okay.
01:00:15.679 --> 01:00:16.159
I appreciate that.
01:00:16.639 --> 01:00:18.000
Where's your head out of the guide six?
01:00:18.239 --> 01:00:20.719
I called that assistant regional manager before I got put on hold.
01:00:20.880 --> 01:00:21.440
Didn't like it.
01:00:21.599 --> 01:00:23.599
No, just hold for a long time.
01:00:27.440 --> 01:00:30.000
I'm a little dismayed the hat didn't make an appearance tonight.
01:00:30.320 --> 01:00:30.880
The coach hat.
01:00:31.119 --> 01:00:34.559
The hat is oh I I'm I'm apologizing for not wearing the hat.
01:00:34.639 --> 01:00:35.840
Next time I'll bring the hat.
01:00:36.079 --> 01:00:36.400
That's good.
01:00:36.719 --> 01:00:41.519
The hat, the hat is uh that is something I that's speechless.
01:00:41.679 --> 01:00:43.679
Yeah, I'm I have no words for that hat.
01:00:44.000 --> 01:00:44.719
Thank you.
01:00:45.440 --> 01:00:46.880
It's a gift that keeps on giving.
01:00:47.199 --> 01:00:48.000
It is from the heart.
01:00:48.159 --> 01:00:50.639
It is this is my favorite segment.
01:00:51.119 --> 01:00:54.239
I think and I think by the way, I'm gonna try to do a speed run.
01:00:54.400 --> 01:00:56.719
It's only like three or four questions next time.
01:00:56.960 --> 01:00:58.159
Just a smaller speed run.
01:00:58.639 --> 01:01:01.840
I have no I have my trend with the speed round has been to compress.
01:01:02.000 --> 01:01:03.280
I think that's a wise choice.
01:01:03.760 --> 01:01:07.119
Because halfway through it you realize it wasn't a good idea.
01:01:08.559 --> 01:01:12.639
That's that's that is all of this is actually very true.
01:01:13.280 --> 01:01:16.800
That thought like why the hell am I asking this person about South Dakota?
01:01:16.960 --> 01:01:18.400
Nobody cares about this.
01:01:18.719 --> 01:01:22.239
We should use that we should use that same logic for the show itself.
01:01:22.480 --> 01:01:25.599
Just compress it because the diet the diet coke.
01:01:25.920 --> 01:01:27.519
Baby steps baby steps.
01:01:28.639 --> 01:01:30.159
The Diet Coke Coke thing.
01:01:30.320 --> 01:01:31.360
I still don't think that's true.
01:01:31.440 --> 01:01:32.000
I think you make it.
01:01:32.400 --> 01:01:33.760
It's a project garbage.
01:01:35.360 --> 01:01:36.480
The diet coke floating.
01:01:37.440 --> 01:01:37.920
That's in.
01:01:38.079 --> 01:01:38.960
That's for real.
01:01:39.440 --> 01:01:47.119
I'm still lamenting the front rear rear wheel real front wheel, rear wheel drive, forklift question.
01:01:47.440 --> 01:01:47.679
Yes.
01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:49.440
That was that was a just left.
01:01:49.760 --> 01:01:50.800
That was a deep regret.
01:01:51.039 --> 01:01:53.119
Deep regret over that question.
01:01:56.960 --> 01:01:57.440
Yeah.
01:01:58.159 --> 01:02:01.599
Well, you're asking is really working well, I gotta tell you.
01:02:02.880 --> 01:02:12.559
It's always great seeing this person, this person that's agreed to come on to do a burst room at the end and then say, hey, nice hustle reward.
01:02:12.800 --> 01:02:13.760
Get out there.
01:02:17.599 --> 01:02:18.320
Yeah, yeah.
01:02:18.639 --> 01:02:20.000
Leave them on a high note.
01:02:20.400 --> 01:02:21.280
Oh my god.
01:02:21.599 --> 01:02:29.920
I will say, here's here's the big improvement is that uh our guests just keep getting better and better in terms of I agree.
01:02:30.320 --> 01:02:33.360
I mean, that's why the people listen don't listen to hear us.
01:02:34.000 --> 01:02:35.679
No, they listen for you, Peter.
01:02:35.760 --> 01:02:37.360
They're they're all in it for you.
01:02:37.679 --> 01:02:38.960
I know that's not true.
01:02:39.199 --> 01:02:44.719
Because anybody says to me they listen to the podcast, like I listen to the podcast, and then they tell me about the things it's never about me.
01:02:44.880 --> 01:02:45.920
And I'm like, oh no.
01:02:46.239 --> 01:02:46.480
No.
01:02:46.880 --> 01:02:47.039
No.
01:02:47.360 --> 01:02:48.079
Thanks.
01:02:48.400 --> 01:02:50.559
Uh exit ticket, Chris?
01:02:50.880 --> 01:02:51.760
Exit ticket?
01:02:52.400 --> 01:02:52.719
Where is it?
01:02:53.199 --> 01:02:54.559
I uh see, right here.
01:02:54.719 --> 01:02:56.159
I put a reminder for myself.
01:02:56.559 --> 01:02:59.920
That's notice for your podcast, do an exit ticket.
01:03:00.320 --> 01:03:01.760
Obviously, that's here it is.
01:03:01.840 --> 01:03:02.480
Here's the exit ticket.
01:03:02.639 --> 01:03:11.039
Coach coach, coach, give us one thing uh for our next podcast that we need to uh uh something we gotta do.
01:03:11.440 --> 01:03:12.639
So many things.
01:03:13.199 --> 01:03:17.199
Get that I want I want that I'm I'm going back to that resource.
01:03:17.599 --> 01:03:18.880
I want that website.
01:03:19.039 --> 01:03:21.599
I want to beyond art list laundry list.
01:03:22.000 --> 01:03:22.639
Yes.
01:03:23.280 --> 01:03:24.480
I want an access point.
01:03:24.639 --> 01:03:27.760
I want to be able to get to that the rhythm book.
01:03:27.920 --> 01:03:30.320
I want to see those reading podcasts.
01:03:30.639 --> 01:03:31.119
Come on.
01:03:31.360 --> 01:03:31.920
All right.
01:03:32.400 --> 01:03:32.559
Okay.
01:03:33.519 --> 01:03:33.840
Okay.
01:03:34.320 --> 01:03:38.000
Uh we should we should have that done by what February 2029?
01:03:38.320 --> 01:03:40.800
I think that's a good, that's a good, you know, goal.
01:03:41.119 --> 01:03:45.039
When we're sitting at the Midwest booth thinking, why are we here doing this again?
01:03:45.280 --> 01:03:46.320
We'll create that list.
01:03:46.559 --> 01:03:46.960
That's right.
01:03:47.199 --> 01:03:48.320
Because no one else will be there.
01:03:48.480 --> 01:03:48.880
That's right.
01:03:48.960 --> 01:03:52.079
If you want to leave your jackets at the uh Midwest, you just come to our booth.
01:03:52.159 --> 01:03:53.440
This is what we're offering.
01:03:53.679 --> 01:03:55.679
Uh everyone, I'm not sure.
01:03:55.760 --> 01:04:07.119
But if we if we go back to that place next to the pole, so we actually had two for the price of one, we could just take people's coats for money and then just throw them in a pile and be like, which coat is yours?
01:04:07.199 --> 01:04:07.519
Hold on.
01:04:07.599 --> 01:04:08.000
Is it this?
01:04:08.239 --> 01:04:08.639
This looks good.
01:04:08.960 --> 01:04:09.920
No, is it this looks good?
01:04:10.000 --> 01:04:11.039
That'll fit, it'll fit.
01:04:11.119 --> 01:04:11.760
Just squeeze in there.
01:04:12.239 --> 01:04:14.639
I could come down, I could come down and be your coat guy.
01:04:14.800 --> 01:04:15.119
Yeah.
01:04:15.920 --> 01:04:17.039
I could just be in charge of coats.
01:04:17.440 --> 01:04:19.760
Now this is a small business opportunity.
01:04:19.920 --> 01:04:21.519
And I would work for tips.
01:04:21.760 --> 01:04:22.239
Yeah.
01:04:22.480 --> 01:04:24.239
And just general encouragement.
01:04:24.559 --> 01:04:27.599
Please, God, please, God, tell me this segment is ending soon.
01:04:28.719 --> 01:04:30.159
This is just gonna cut this.
01:04:30.480 --> 01:04:31.199
Please make it out.
01:04:32.239 --> 01:04:32.880
Oh my god.
01:04:33.280 --> 01:04:34.960
Workless banter.
01:04:36.800 --> 01:04:38.800
You won't cut it, that takes work.
01:04:41.760 --> 01:04:45.599
Beyond Artless is sponsored by Beyond the Notes Music Festival.
01:04:45.760 --> 01:04:52.480
Our mission is to create and provide profound learning and social experiences through music that go beyond the notes.
01:04:52.639 --> 01:04:56.559
Visit Btn Music Festival dot com to learn more.