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Trailblazers in research
innovators, in technology,
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and those who simply have a good story:
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all make up the fabric that
is George Mason University,
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where taking on the grand challenges
that face our students, graduates,
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and higher education is our
mission and our passion.
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Hosted by Mason President
Gregory Washington,
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this is the Access to Excellence podcast.
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It wasn't long ago that we were all
regulars at the Fenwick COVID-19
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testing site, participating
in saliva-based COVID-19 test,
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actually developed by
George Mason researchers.
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And now with innovation
comes further questions.
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What else can we detect and diagnose now?
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Alessandra Luchini is a professor
in the School of Systems
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Biology in the College of Science.
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Her research focuses on developing
technologies that improve current
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diagnostics and therapeutics for diseases,
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including cancer and inflammatory
and infectious disease.
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Alessandra, welcome to the show.
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Thank you very much for having me.
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Your Mason journey began in
2005 when you came here from
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Italy on a research fellowship
to do cancer research,
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but your training is in engineering.
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So what led you to the
field of diagnostic testing?
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I love, uh, the diagnostic challenge, uh,
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to me is like solving a puzzle,
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piecing together different
clues to try and solve
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the final mystery: who
done it, right? What,
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what is it that causes this ailment,
this illness, uh, this terrible, uh,
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symptoms in the diagnostic journey.
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I hope to learn something that, uh,
explains how the disease develops.
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Ah, diagnostics and, and
new research in it is at,
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in the intersection between
science, innovation, patient care.
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So 20 years in it.
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I find it very rewarding to be able to
do a research that has very concrete,
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practical impact in the life of people.
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You know, you came to the US to do
research. What were your thoughts?
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What made you move?
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Right, I was chasing the
dream! I, I had a plan. I,
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I wanted to come here, stay six
months, solve the sole cancer issue,
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um, make my parents proud and come back.
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And what I realized when I came
to Mason is that the tools and the
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technical aspects of the research
were not completely figured out.
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And as humbling as it was, I found
it to be an excellent challenge.
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And having an engineering background,
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I'm kind of wired of finding a
problem, try to identify a solution,
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and, and I really embrace
this, this new challenge.
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And I found an excellent
environment with my directors,
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doctors Liotta and Petricoin,
that foster creativity and,
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and finding new solutions. And great, uh,
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in involvement and synergy from the
local biotech companies, students,
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different scientists,
international collaboration. So,
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I loved it.
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So you came in, you had a
project, that's what got you here.
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There was some set of outcomes
that you were hoping to achieve.
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Mm-hmm .
Mm-hmm .
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What were you hoping for?
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What kind of outcomes did you think you
would get with the cancer diagnostic
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research that you started,
uh, when you came here?
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Absolutely. So the, the, the goal and,
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and the reason why Italy sent me out here,
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and the reason why I was collaborating
with all the C-A-P-M-M scientists was
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to develop a test,
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a blood-based test or something
that is really non-invasive,
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that could tell us who
was going to get cancer.
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And so this was a cancer
risk kind of test.
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So we could identify people very early
before they had any clinical signs
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and implications. And as, uh,
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the name of the center says we
were focusing on proteomics,
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and this is kind of a
phenotypical way of looking, um,
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at the patient's molecular information.
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And it is a little bit of
the difference between a, uh,
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let's say a football playbook and,
and the football players right?
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.
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Looking at, at proteins. These
are the guys who do things,
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who carry the actions. And
that's what we were looking, and,
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and by looking at all the complement
of these players and, and you know,
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when they go wrong, then
the health goes very wrong.
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We hope to understand the
cancer development and
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pathogenesis, so to,
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for those protein targets to
be the drugs of the future.
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Understood. Understood.
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Were you able to develop any new
technologies during that time?
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Sure. Right. Where there is the need,
there is an incentive to find a,
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a novel technology. And it
was a very good collaboration.
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And the Mason scientists were very
good at collaborating with the biotech
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enterprises, uh, around
locally and nationally.
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And so many technologies were developed.
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My focus was on a specific
way, or nanotechnology,
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a specific way to capture the
proteins and the targets we
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were interested in while
isolating the noise.
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And so in a way,
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we were stabilizing and amplifying
the signal by blocking the
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background.
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Wow. I see.
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And so this technology then
was licensed by a company,
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and it was kind of very nice way to
give back to the biotech community
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that sparked this
collaboration in the beginning.
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As a member of the George Mason
Center for Applied Proteomics and
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Molecular Medicine,
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you supported the work on developing
George Mason's novel saliva testing
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for COVID-19.
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What was it like being a researcher
during those early months of the COVID-19
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pandemic?
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It was a very intense time, right?
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The pandemic does bring
back very hard memories of
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hardiness and commitment.
I was very fortunate that I
was allowed to go to work,
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right? And, and because of that,
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my experience might have been different
than many others. There was no,
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not an hour of remote work. I was here.
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I felt I had the chance to help the
community. I have two young kids.
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And so in the mornings I was
trying to guide them through
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the online learning from
the elementary school.
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And then in the afternoon I would come
to the lab, put my lab coat on, and, uh,
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and give a little contribution to the,
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to the testing and the
lateral flow. So like a,
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a rapid test that could tell who
had the antibodies for COVID,
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so who was exposed to the disease.
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And so it was like this sense of purpose
and helping the community that helped
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me plow through this, uh, exhaustion.
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I have to say that for the safety
of the very same community,
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it was very good that going home, I had
the highway for myself. .
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Yeah. You didn't have to worry
about traffic and all of that stuff.
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I remember that. You actually
worked to develop the, uh,
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global partnership at that time, right?
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Between George Mason and the University
of Padua in Italy. During COVID-19,
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you worked closely with the Italian
microbiologists to help develop the test.
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And so how did this
international collaboration
work and how did it impact the
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actual saliva testing apparatus
that we were able to develop here?
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Uh, it was extremely helpful, right?
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Italy was a bit ahead in the pandemic
just for the geographical reasons.
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And it was good. It was a very
productive exchange of samples of, uh,
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epidemiology information on, uh, uh,
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patients behavior and given
the differences in the
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environment.
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But all this information and these
specimens and this know-how really help
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us speed up the technology, the testing,
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and make it a better product.
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Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm
. Has the
collaboration continued?
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Is it still ongoing since the
COVID-19 pandemic has formally
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ended? Are you still
working with the same group?
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Yes. I am very keen in
international collaboration,
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and the group in Padua is
very dear to, to my heart,
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and it's good to keep the relationship,
uh, with your old school friends, right?
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So with Padua, we continue,
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we have a class where we bring Mason
students to study translational
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medicine in Italy. Uh, we
continue studying tuberculosis.
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We study sickle cell diseases,
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and we leverage the collaboration
with scientists who have a
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global footprint of research operation.
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But then with tropical infectious diseases
and tuberculosis and Chagas disease,
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the collaboration goes beyond Italy.
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And we collaborated with
scientists in Nepal and in, uh,
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Guinea-Bissau and, and
Peru, Bolivia. So...
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That's pretty cool. So, so why,
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why is it important to have
these global connections?
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When you're talking about the development
of new detection and diagnostic
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technologies?
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There is a geographic factor
that is very important. So one,
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as COVID taught us,
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the diseases don't respect
borders. Right? .
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That's right. Doesn't care about
boundaries. , that is very,
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that was very clear.
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So being global enabled you to look at
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diagnostics from the perspective of
needs that different countries may have.
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That we may not have here and then
you're able to take those needs and,
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and then develop technologies that will
also be useful here in the us. Right.
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So last May you got 1.2 million
federal research dollars
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to support Lyme disease
detection and diagnosis
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using urine as a framework, right?
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I assume that the work that you had been
developing with these global partners
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enabled the development of this test,
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which we are now using in the
US. Is that, is that accurate?
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It's absolutely accurate. Uh, and
that's really the whole, uh, story,
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right? We,
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we understood what limitations can be
outside the US and then with the lessons
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learned, we developed technology
and that didn't require any
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infrastructure. And abating costs is good.
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And the important thing is that
we see it maintains accuracy.
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So there is complete integration with
the high complexity clinical lab,
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but without the need of that cold chain,
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very expensive freezers
and refrigerators. Um, and,
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and in particular this, uh, collaboration,
yielded a different technology,
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which is a specific urine collection
cup that allows us to stabilize,
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um, the molecular content
of urine with no technology,
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no laboratory infrastructure,
no power, right?
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Because a lot of the country we were
tried to do research with for many months
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a year, they don't have
power. And so this,
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this collection cup allows
us to measure accurately
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diseases and disease markers without
a lab, without power. And so,
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although it was developed
for underserved countries,
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this we hope will be something
that can be integrated also in the
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US uh,
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system and with some kind of
telehealth model where there is not
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the need for the patient to go
to the lab to donate the sample,
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but kind of the lab goes to the patient
and then is embedded in this telehealth
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model. It is just--
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So you're able to do all of this
accurate tests without the significant
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infrastructure of a lab.
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So I assume that means that
people can use it in the home.
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The, it, it's a collection that is a home,
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a point of need collection and then
is shipped at the room temperature.
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Oh, wow.
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Where scientists--in the beginning,
scientists are working on the test,
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and then in the future, yes. Uh,
we hope that it will be a home,
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from the beginning to
the end home solution.
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Okay. I, I hear you. So let
me back up for a minute.
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For our listeners who are
unfamiliar with Lyme disease, uh,
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can you explain what it is,
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its symptoms and transmission
and why it is so dangerous?
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Sure. Lyme disease is a,
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an infectious disease that this
is transmitted by the blacklegged
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tick, which is the deer tick. We have
many in our backyard in this area,
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unfortunately.
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Because we got a lot of deer ,
my goodness, they are everywhere.
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And deer are intimately connected to it.
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People saw that in islands where there
is no deer, there is no Lyme disease.
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Huh! So no tick, no Lyme disease. So
because of the involvement of our,
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the environment and
the wild animals, a um,
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Lyme disease is an interesting disease
also from the one health perspective.
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Right. But, um, anyway,
when a tick who has that,
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has the bacterium, and it's called
Borrelia burgdorferi, bite us,
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then it transmits the
bacterium to the host to,
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to the human. And then the bacterium
goes from the skin to the blood,
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and unfortunately from the blood
it goes all over the body. And it,
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the bacterium likes to hide in organs,
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in places like the knees and the
joints, the brain, the heart.
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So a minimal thing, like a tick bite,
the infectious not treated correctly,
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for a small percentage of people
can result in heart transplant.
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Very debilitating arthritis
and, and joint pain,
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very difficult mobility, the need
for a lot of joint replacement and,
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and brain fog. But to the point
that is very debilitating.
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And when it happens to a young
person, people have to drop college.
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They drop school. When it happens
to an adult, they have to drop work.
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So it's, um, it's a simple solution.
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We just need to know who has it and
treat it. And unfortunately, the--
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So, so it is treatable
if you catch it, right?
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Yes.
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So what this test can do is literally be
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revolutionary in terms of helping us
manage this disease. Is that accurate?
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Well, we certainly hope
so, right . But yes,
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the test looks for pieces of the
bacterium that are shed in our
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bodily fluid. And, and these are pieces
that can come only for these bacteriums,
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that, that is, there is no
overlap with the microbiome.
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There is no overlap with our molecular
content, it is just from the bacterium.
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And by knowing if we harbor this
infection early, we can treat it. And,
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and the treatment is successful.
However, we are also using this, uh,
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this test to learn what it
is that cause all this, uh,
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terrible chronic symptoms. And again,
like cancer, like, uh, tuberculosis,
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we hope to be able to
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identify this pharmacological
targets, this,
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this future ways of treating,
also the long-term consequences.
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And yeah, again, Lyme is very similar
to long COVID in terms of the damage,
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the persisting damage that does
to people. And we have some ideas.
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Hmm. That is interesting.
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So talk to me a little bit
about how did your work
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in cancer detection and the
COVID-19 detection correlate to
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discovering a new method
for Lyme disease detection?
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Mm-hmm . And
it's very similar problem.
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We are looking for very
rare labile signs, right?
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Almost like writing your name on
the sand, and when the wave comes,
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this trace is gone. And so equally
for, uh, for the cancer and,
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and for Lyme disease,
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we are looking at something very
fragile in the bodily fluid. And,
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and the same approach of
capturing and preserving and
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concentrated this, uh, very
fragile biological traces,
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has held the same value for
cancer and for the Lyme disease.
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And so it's like really
finding the classic hay, um,
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needle in the haystack,
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but with the complication that the
needle is being eaten very quickly by
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something. Yeah.
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So why is early detection important?
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Early detection is very important because
it can result in better outcome for
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the patients, their family, um,
the healthcare system, right?
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And we hope to push it even
further to prevention, right? And,
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and it's always better to treat a,
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a disease at the very beginning where
the implications are minimal and
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the outlook for a therapy is much
better. And, and that's true, you know,
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for cancer and all the programs
for imaging and screening. And,
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and that is true also, um,
for the infectious diseases.
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So can this work be
applied to other diseases?
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I assume that there may be other things
transmitted through ticks or other types
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of diseases in general. What
else are you looking at?
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Absolutely. One tick can
transmit many, many diseases,
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upwards almost 20. Luckily,
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they are much less widespread than
Lyme disease and any, and in one,
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uh, embodiment of the test, we do
test for all the other diseases. And,
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and there are names that are
less known, probably babesiosis,
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Rocky Mountain spotted fever--
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That one is actually quite common,
right? I I I've heard of that one.
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And, and maybe in different areas,
right? Not necessarily in the,
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in the East coast. And so all of that,
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there are terrible viruses that they are
encephalitis generating viruses, and,
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and they're very, actually
very little. So the, so we can,
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with the same approach in, in
one, uh, very small cup of urine,
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identify all of this,
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but then it can transcend the ticks and
look for other vector borne diseases:
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mosquito borne diseases.
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But the reality is that it can be a
solution for also other diseases at all.
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For example,
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we are collaborating for predicting
a pain crisis for sickle cell disease
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children. And, and so the, the idea
being that by monitoring the wellness or,
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or signs and, and alarm
signals in the body,
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we can monitor the wellness and,
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and hopefully predict when
something bad happens.
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So what about moving over to the
veterinary side of the house?
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Are we able to detect diseases
in animals using some of the same
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techniques?
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Absolutely.
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For the fact that we target the
bacterium and so the causative agents of
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disease, that's exactly the
same. And, and our friends,
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our pets also, uh, different animals,
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they do harbor the same bacterium.
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So it's absolutely
translatable to animals.
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And it's actually is at the heart
of how this Lyme test came to be.
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And the whole idea came
from a high school summer
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intern who came to work in the lab
many years ago, and now she has,
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you know, her PhD, and a beautiful
family. and her name is Temple Douglas.
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And Temple wanted to do something
for her family that was highly
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hit by Lyme disease. Her mom, her sister,
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they had terrible time dealing with it.
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And so she came in one summer in
high school, she developed a test,
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she published a paper.
She was the first author.
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00:19:55,065 --> 00:19:55,898
Oh, first author!
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00:19:55,905 --> 00:19:57,045
On the publication. She did it.
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Nice.
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And, uh, and the first patient
who was published, it was her dog.
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patient number one.
Outstanding. Outstanding.
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00:20:08,065 --> 00:20:12,205
So you were honored by the State
Council of Higher Education,
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00:20:12,295 --> 00:20:16,765
which we call here SCHEV, with a
2023 outstanding faculty award.
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How does your work as a
researcher inform your teaching
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00:20:21,975 --> 00:20:22,808
philosophy?
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00:20:23,244 --> 00:20:27,045
Teaching and, and research, I believe
they're intimately connected. And,
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00:20:27,046 --> 00:20:31,325
and to me, it is difficult to
think of one without the other.
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00:20:31,585 --> 00:20:36,125
And I do love, uh, working
with students and, and,
335
00:20:36,325 --> 00:20:41,244
and students are kind of the reason I
get out of bed and the way I feel it's
336
00:20:41,355 --> 00:20:46,005
more effective to teach is working
together, learning as we do,
337
00:20:46,255 --> 00:20:48,885
learn as we solve an issue,
338
00:20:49,185 --> 00:20:53,885
as we--even put our brain
together to identify
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00:20:54,585 --> 00:20:58,005
the issue. And, and the, the
teaching involves knowledge,
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00:20:58,105 --> 00:21:02,365
but involves also creativity and
resilience and collaboration,
341
00:21:02,385 --> 00:21:07,125
and how to be professional. So it becomes
like a, a different experience. Yeah.
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00:21:07,605 --> 00:21:09,645
Mm. Understood. Understood. Pre pandemic,
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the partnership with the Italian
universities we spoke about earlier,
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included a class on translational
research with students from both
345
00:21:18,825 --> 00:21:21,765
George Mason and the University of Padua.
346
00:21:22,234 --> 00:21:26,725
What do students gain from this kind
of cross-cultural collaboration in the
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00:21:26,726 --> 00:21:27,685
classroom and beyond?
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00:21:28,655 --> 00:21:30,285
Based on the feedback we received,
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I think they gather a lot
and they were exposed,
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00:21:34,625 --> 00:21:38,525
or they are exposed to leading
scientists in their field.
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00:21:38,845 --> 00:21:42,405
And scientists can relay firsthand, um,
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00:21:42,405 --> 00:21:46,565
their experience with that translational
research and how to bring the science
353
00:21:46,744 --> 00:21:49,605
to the patient bedside and the community.
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00:21:50,265 --> 00:21:54,885
But also there are very interesting
and engaging conversation in terms of,
355
00:21:55,025 --> 00:21:59,565
for example, the universal
healthcare system that Italy has and,
356
00:21:59,845 --> 00:22:02,285
and has been going on forever,
and the US system, and,
357
00:22:02,566 --> 00:22:04,565
and what is good and what is bad. And,
358
00:22:04,665 --> 00:22:09,445
and there was a great input from
patient advocacy groups and, and,
359
00:22:09,446 --> 00:22:13,965
and voice of people who
live the disease on their
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00:22:14,234 --> 00:22:18,885
skin and their family members. And
so the, the conversation was, uh,
361
00:22:19,595 --> 00:22:22,244
very sparkly. And of course, the Italians,
362
00:22:22,245 --> 00:22:25,325
they do bring a lot of color
and hand gesture and passion,
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00:22:25,905 --> 00:22:30,525
but it was also good to have a deep
dive in science in the mornings.
364
00:22:30,545 --> 00:22:34,325
And then in the afternoon, uh,
student could enjoy art and, and,
365
00:22:34,525 --> 00:22:38,965
and history and cuisine. So,
uh, it's a, I believe, a,
366
00:22:39,085 --> 00:22:42,405
a good model to teach
and learn and, and, uh,
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00:22:42,845 --> 00:22:45,445
exchange different visions
and point of views.
368
00:22:46,845 --> 00:22:48,885
In, in terms of our students, what do,
369
00:22:48,886 --> 00:22:53,365
what do you hope they learn from engaging
on international collaborators? You,
370
00:22:53,366 --> 00:22:56,805
you know, we, for lack of a
better way of saying this,
371
00:22:57,345 --> 00:23:01,605
the connection between US
students and foreign students, uh,
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00:23:01,635 --> 00:23:05,005
it's one of the areas that is
challenged right now in the country.
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00:23:05,945 --> 00:23:10,925
And I think we are not
paying attention to some of
374
00:23:10,926 --> 00:23:15,605
the real benefits of having people
from all over the globe come to
375
00:23:15,825 --> 00:23:17,645
one place to study and to learn.
376
00:23:18,025 --> 00:23:22,885
If you look at the great
centers of learning historically
have always been like
377
00:23:22,886 --> 00:23:26,405
that, right? You can go back to the,
378
00:23:26,744 --> 00:23:31,565
the education in, in, in the
Greeks, and you go, you know,
379
00:23:31,566 --> 00:23:34,244
further into Egypt and into Alexandria.
380
00:23:34,585 --> 00:23:38,605
And these centers of
learning always drew people
381
00:23:39,315 --> 00:23:42,965
from all over. Europe had
these great institutions,
382
00:23:43,785 --> 00:23:46,565
and during the whole
period of enlightenment,
383
00:23:46,585 --> 00:23:50,925
people came from all over the world
to study in the Europe and learn.
384
00:23:51,435 --> 00:23:54,165
And now the US is the place for that.
385
00:23:54,845 --> 00:23:58,965
I just think that in all of the back
and forth that we're dealing with now,
386
00:23:59,255 --> 00:24:03,885
there is something fundamental there
that we're missing and you engage in this
387
00:24:03,886 --> 00:24:06,445
kind of work. So talk
to me a little about it.
388
00:24:07,065 --> 00:24:11,765
I cannot say enough how important
a global reach for science and
389
00:24:12,085 --> 00:24:14,484
research is. And it's
a matter of knowledge,
390
00:24:14,805 --> 00:24:18,045
it's a matter of exchange of samples,
391
00:24:18,765 --> 00:24:22,925
exchange of technology, uh,
understanding different needs,
392
00:24:23,115 --> 00:24:27,125
understanding different realities,
and understanding culture,
393
00:24:27,575 --> 00:24:28,385
local culture,
394
00:24:28,385 --> 00:24:33,165
and how that plays into
the overall research
395
00:24:33,166 --> 00:24:36,765
enterprise. And science is a universal
language, right? And, and, and--
396
00:24:36,785 --> 00:24:37,618
That it is.
397
00:24:37,665 --> 00:24:39,605
And, and we can go everywhere and,
398
00:24:39,845 --> 00:24:44,125
and cancer hits us in the US like
it hits people in, in Italy. And,
399
00:24:44,405 --> 00:24:47,925
and the way we can learn what causes it,
400
00:24:48,515 --> 00:24:51,165
it's deeply embedded in
this constant exchange.
401
00:24:51,265 --> 00:24:53,645
And I hear you very much in Padua, uh,
402
00:24:53,705 --> 00:24:57,445
in Italy is a university
that was funded in the 1300.
403
00:24:58,185 --> 00:25:03,005
And the motto is knowledge is
open to the universe.
404
00:25:03,035 --> 00:25:06,405
It is the university,
405
00:25:07,525 --> 00:25:12,045
and it's in the world itself. Like
it's a universal, in universe.
406
00:25:13,085 --> 00:25:13,505
And the,
407
00:25:13,505 --> 00:25:18,244
the very nature of the
work we do is global and
408
00:25:18,295 --> 00:25:22,045
needs to, to be global, to
flourish and move forward.
409
00:25:22,994 --> 00:25:26,525
Well, we're gonna have to
leave it there. Alessandra,
410
00:25:26,575 --> 00:25:31,565
thank you for your continued work in
disease detection so that we can all live
411
00:25:31,566 --> 00:25:34,765
healthier, happier lives. And I really,
412
00:25:34,766 --> 00:25:38,845
really appreciate the work you're doing
and the impact that it's having on the
413
00:25:38,846 --> 00:25:39,575
planet.
414
00:25:39,575 --> 00:25:42,165
Thank you very much, President
Washington. It was a pleasure.
415
00:25:42,175 --> 00:25:43,285
Thank you for the opportunity.
416
00:25:43,885 --> 00:25:48,244
Oh, outstanding. I am George Mason
President Gregory Washington.
417
00:25:48,465 --> 00:25:49,525
Thanks for listening.
418
00:25:50,025 --> 00:25:54,205
And tune in next time for more
conversations that show why
419
00:25:54,825 --> 00:25:57,005
we are all together different.
420
00:25:59,744 --> 00:26:01,165
If you like what you
heard on this podcast,
421
00:26:01,625 --> 00:26:06,244
go to podcast.gmu.edu for
more of Gregory Washington's
422
00:26:06,245 --> 00:26:08,445
conversations with the
thought leaders, experts,
423
00:26:08,665 --> 00:26:13,285
and educators who take on the grand
challenges facing our students, graduates,
424
00:26:13,305 --> 00:26:17,405
and higher education.
That's podcast.gmu.edu.
00:00:04,225 --> 00:00:07,065
Trailblazers in research
innovators, in technology,
2
00:00:07,365 --> 00:00:09,345
and those who simply have a good story:
3
00:00:09,925 --> 00:00:12,265
all make up the fabric that
is George Mason University,
4
00:00:12,265 --> 00:00:16,305
where taking on the grand challenges
that face our students, graduates,
5
00:00:16,405 --> 00:00:19,105
and higher education is our
mission and our passion.
6
00:00:19,765 --> 00:00:21,785
Hosted by Mason President
Gregory Washington,
7
00:00:21,785 --> 00:00:24,145
this is the Access to Excellence podcast.
8
00:00:27,045 --> 00:00:31,705
It wasn't long ago that we were all
regulars at the Fenwick COVID-19
9
00:00:31,706 --> 00:00:35,425
testing site, participating
in saliva-based COVID-19 test,
10
00:00:36,345 --> 00:00:38,625
actually developed by
George Mason researchers.
11
00:00:39,165 --> 00:00:42,145
And now with innovation
comes further questions.
12
00:00:42,455 --> 00:00:45,825
What else can we detect and diagnose now?
13
00:00:46,515 --> 00:00:51,305
Alessandra Luchini is a professor
in the School of Systems
14
00:00:51,335 --> 00:00:53,465
Biology in the College of Science.
15
00:00:54,085 --> 00:00:58,345
Her research focuses on developing
technologies that improve current
16
00:00:58,495 --> 00:01:01,305
diagnostics and therapeutics for diseases,
17
00:01:01,615 --> 00:01:06,185
including cancer and inflammatory
and infectious disease.
18
00:01:07,715 --> 00:01:09,745
Alessandra, welcome to the show.
19
00:01:10,275 --> 00:01:12,065
Thank you very much for having me.
20
00:01:12,655 --> 00:01:17,265
Your Mason journey began in
2005 when you came here from
21
00:01:17,315 --> 00:01:21,505
Italy on a research fellowship
to do cancer research,
22
00:01:21,805 --> 00:01:23,505
but your training is in engineering.
23
00:01:24,285 --> 00:01:28,545
So what led you to the
field of diagnostic testing?
24
00:01:29,145 --> 00:01:32,225
I love, uh, the diagnostic challenge, uh,
25
00:01:32,325 --> 00:01:34,665
to me is like solving a puzzle,
26
00:01:35,175 --> 00:01:40,105
piecing together different
clues to try and solve
27
00:01:40,405 --> 00:01:43,065
the final mystery: who
done it, right? What,
28
00:01:43,066 --> 00:01:47,785
what is it that causes this ailment,
this illness, uh, this terrible, uh,
29
00:01:48,185 --> 00:01:49,985
symptoms in the diagnostic journey.
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00:01:50,465 --> 00:01:55,425
I hope to learn something that, uh,
explains how the disease develops.
31
00:01:55,825 --> 00:02:00,505
Ah, diagnostics and, and
new research in it is at,
32
00:02:00,525 --> 00:02:05,225
in the intersection between
science, innovation, patient care.
33
00:02:05,605 --> 00:02:07,065
So 20 years in it.
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I find it very rewarding to be able to
do a research that has very concrete,
35
00:02:12,455 --> 00:02:15,145
practical impact in the life of people.
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00:02:16,005 --> 00:02:19,264
You know, you came to the US to do
research. What were your thoughts?
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00:02:19,495 --> 00:02:20,385
What made you move?
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00:02:20,675 --> 00:02:24,705
Right, I was chasing the
dream! I, I had a plan. I,
39
00:02:24,865 --> 00:02:29,465
I wanted to come here, stay six
months, solve the sole cancer issue,
40
00:02:30,145 --> 00:02:33,425
um, make my parents proud and come back.
41
00:02:33,525 --> 00:02:38,465
And what I realized when I came
to Mason is that the tools and the
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technical aspects of the research
were not completely figured out.
43
00:02:43,565 --> 00:02:47,665
And as humbling as it was, I found
it to be an excellent challenge.
44
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And having an engineering background,
45
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I'm kind of wired of finding a
problem, try to identify a solution,
46
00:02:56,805 --> 00:02:59,365
and, and I really embrace
this, this new challenge.
47
00:02:59,544 --> 00:03:03,525
And I found an excellent
environment with my directors,
48
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doctors Liotta and Petricoin,
that foster creativity and,
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and finding new solutions. And great, uh,
50
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in involvement and synergy from the
local biotech companies, students,
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different scientists,
international collaboration. So,
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I loved it.
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So you came in, you had a
project, that's what got you here.
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There was some set of outcomes
that you were hoping to achieve.
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Mm-hmm .
Mm-hmm .
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What were you hoping for?
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00:03:33,155 --> 00:03:36,605
What kind of outcomes did you think you
would get with the cancer diagnostic
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research that you started,
uh, when you came here?
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Absolutely. So the, the, the goal and,
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and the reason why Italy sent me out here,
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and the reason why I was collaborating
with all the C-A-P-M-M scientists was
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to develop a test,
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a blood-based test or something
that is really non-invasive,
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that could tell us who
was going to get cancer.
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And so this was a cancer
risk kind of test.
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So we could identify people very early
before they had any clinical signs
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and implications. And as, uh,
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the name of the center says we
were focusing on proteomics,
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and this is kind of a
phenotypical way of looking, um,
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at the patient's molecular information.
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And it is a little bit of
the difference between a, uh,
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let's say a football playbook and,
and the football players right?
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.
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Looking at, at proteins. These
are the guys who do things,
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who carry the actions. And
that's what we were looking, and,
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and by looking at all the complement
of these players and, and you know,
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when they go wrong, then
the health goes very wrong.
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We hope to understand the
cancer development and
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pathogenesis, so to,
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for those protein targets to
be the drugs of the future.
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Understood. Understood.
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Were you able to develop any new
technologies during that time?
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Sure. Right. Where there is the need,
there is an incentive to find a,
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a novel technology. And it
was a very good collaboration.
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And the Mason scientists were very
good at collaborating with the biotech
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enterprises, uh, around
locally and nationally.
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And so many technologies were developed.
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My focus was on a specific
way, or nanotechnology,
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a specific way to capture the
proteins and the targets we
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were interested in while
isolating the noise.
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And so in a way,
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we were stabilizing and amplifying
the signal by blocking the
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background.
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Wow. I see.
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And so this technology then
was licensed by a company,
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and it was kind of very nice way to
give back to the biotech community
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that sparked this
collaboration in the beginning.
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As a member of the George Mason
Center for Applied Proteomics and
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Molecular Medicine,
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you supported the work on developing
George Mason's novel saliva testing
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for COVID-19.
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What was it like being a researcher
during those early months of the COVID-19
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pandemic?
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It was a very intense time, right?
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The pandemic does bring
back very hard memories of
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hardiness and commitment.
I was very fortunate that I
was allowed to go to work,
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right? And, and because of that,
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my experience might have been different
than many others. There was no,
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not an hour of remote work. I was here.
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I felt I had the chance to help the
community. I have two young kids.
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And so in the mornings I was
trying to guide them through
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the online learning from
the elementary school.
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And then in the afternoon I would come
to the lab, put my lab coat on, and, uh,
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and give a little contribution to the,
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to the testing and the
lateral flow. So like a,
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a rapid test that could tell who
had the antibodies for COVID,
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so who was exposed to the disease.
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And so it was like this sense of purpose
and helping the community that helped
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me plow through this, uh, exhaustion.
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I have to say that for the safety
of the very same community,
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it was very good that going home, I had
the highway for myself. .
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Yeah. You didn't have to worry
about traffic and all of that stuff.
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I remember that. You actually
worked to develop the, uh,
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global partnership at that time, right?
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Between George Mason and the University
of Padua in Italy. During COVID-19,
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you worked closely with the Italian
microbiologists to help develop the test.
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And so how did this
international collaboration
work and how did it impact the
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actual saliva testing apparatus
that we were able to develop here?
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Uh, it was extremely helpful, right?
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Italy was a bit ahead in the pandemic
just for the geographical reasons.
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And it was good. It was a very
productive exchange of samples of, uh,
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epidemiology information on, uh, uh,
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patients behavior and given
the differences in the
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environment.
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But all this information and these
specimens and this know-how really help
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us speed up the technology, the testing,
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and make it a better product.
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Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm
. Has the
collaboration continued?
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Is it still ongoing since the
COVID-19 pandemic has formally
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ended? Are you still
working with the same group?
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Yes. I am very keen in
international collaboration,
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and the group in Padua is
very dear to, to my heart,
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and it's good to keep the relationship,
uh, with your old school friends, right?
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So with Padua, we continue,
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we have a class where we bring Mason
students to study translational
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medicine in Italy. Uh, we
continue studying tuberculosis.
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We study sickle cell diseases,
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and we leverage the collaboration
with scientists who have a
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global footprint of research operation.
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But then with tropical infectious diseases
and tuberculosis and Chagas disease,
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the collaboration goes beyond Italy.
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And we collaborated with
scientists in Nepal and in, uh,
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Guinea-Bissau and, and
Peru, Bolivia. So...
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That's pretty cool. So, so why,
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why is it important to have
these global connections?
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When you're talking about the development
of new detection and diagnostic
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technologies?
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There is a geographic factor
that is very important. So one,
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as COVID taught us,
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the diseases don't respect
borders. Right? .
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That's right. Doesn't care about
boundaries. , that is very,
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that was very clear.
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So being global enabled you to look at
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diagnostics from the perspective of
needs that different countries may have.
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That we may not have here and then
you're able to take those needs and,
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and then develop technologies that will
also be useful here in the us. Right.
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So last May you got 1.2 million
federal research dollars
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to support Lyme disease
detection and diagnosis
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using urine as a framework, right?
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I assume that the work that you had been
developing with these global partners
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enabled the development of this test,
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which we are now using in the
US. Is that, is that accurate?
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It's absolutely accurate. Uh, and
that's really the whole, uh, story,
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right? We,
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we understood what limitations can be
outside the US and then with the lessons
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learned, we developed technology
and that didn't require any
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infrastructure. And abating costs is good.
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And the important thing is that
we see it maintains accuracy.
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So there is complete integration with
the high complexity clinical lab,
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but without the need of that cold chain,
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very expensive freezers
and refrigerators. Um, and,
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and in particular this, uh, collaboration,
yielded a different technology,
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which is a specific urine collection
cup that allows us to stabilize,
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um, the molecular content
of urine with no technology,
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no laboratory infrastructure,
no power, right?
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Because a lot of the country we were
tried to do research with for many months
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a year, they don't have
power. And so this,
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this collection cup allows
us to measure accurately
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diseases and disease markers without
a lab, without power. And so,
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although it was developed
for underserved countries,
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this we hope will be something
that can be integrated also in the
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US uh,
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system and with some kind of
telehealth model where there is not
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the need for the patient to go
to the lab to donate the sample,
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but kind of the lab goes to the patient
and then is embedded in this telehealth
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model. It is just--
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So you're able to do all of this
accurate tests without the significant
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infrastructure of a lab.
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So I assume that means that
people can use it in the home.
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The, it, it's a collection that is a home,
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a point of need collection and then
is shipped at the room temperature.
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Oh, wow.
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Where scientists--in the beginning,
scientists are working on the test,
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and then in the future, yes. Uh,
we hope that it will be a home,
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from the beginning to
the end home solution.
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Okay. I, I hear you. So let
me back up for a minute.
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For our listeners who are
unfamiliar with Lyme disease, uh,
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can you explain what it is,
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its symptoms and transmission
and why it is so dangerous?
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Sure. Lyme disease is a,
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an infectious disease that this
is transmitted by the blacklegged
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tick, which is the deer tick. We have
many in our backyard in this area,
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unfortunately.
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Because we got a lot of deer ,
my goodness, they are everywhere.
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And deer are intimately connected to it.
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People saw that in islands where there
is no deer, there is no Lyme disease.
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Huh! So no tick, no Lyme disease. So
because of the involvement of our,
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the environment and
the wild animals, a um,
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Lyme disease is an interesting disease
also from the one health perspective.
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Right. But, um, anyway,
when a tick who has that,
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has the bacterium, and it's called
Borrelia burgdorferi, bite us,
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then it transmits the
bacterium to the host to,
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to the human. And then the bacterium
goes from the skin to the blood,
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and unfortunately from the blood
it goes all over the body. And it,
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the bacterium likes to hide in organs,
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in places like the knees and the
joints, the brain, the heart.
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So a minimal thing, like a tick bite,
the infectious not treated correctly,
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for a small percentage of people
can result in heart transplant.
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Very debilitating arthritis
and, and joint pain,
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very difficult mobility, the need
for a lot of joint replacement and,
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and brain fog. But to the point
that is very debilitating.
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And when it happens to a young
person, people have to drop college.
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They drop school. When it happens
to an adult, they have to drop work.
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So it's, um, it's a simple solution.
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We just need to know who has it and
treat it. And unfortunately, the--
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So, so it is treatable
if you catch it, right?
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Yes.
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So what this test can do is literally be
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revolutionary in terms of helping us
manage this disease. Is that accurate?
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Well, we certainly hope
so, right . But yes,
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the test looks for pieces of the
bacterium that are shed in our
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bodily fluid. And, and these are pieces
that can come only for these bacteriums,
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that, that is, there is no
overlap with the microbiome.
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There is no overlap with our molecular
content, it is just from the bacterium.
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And by knowing if we harbor this
infection early, we can treat it. And,
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and the treatment is successful.
However, we are also using this, uh,
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this test to learn what it
is that cause all this, uh,
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terrible chronic symptoms. And again,
like cancer, like, uh, tuberculosis,
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we hope to be able to
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identify this pharmacological
targets, this,
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this future ways of treating,
also the long-term consequences.
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And yeah, again, Lyme is very similar
to long COVID in terms of the damage,
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the persisting damage that does
to people. And we have some ideas.
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Hmm. That is interesting.
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So talk to me a little bit
about how did your work
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in cancer detection and the
COVID-19 detection correlate to
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discovering a new method
for Lyme disease detection?
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00:16:00,476 --> 00:16:02,795
Mm-hmm . And
it's very similar problem.
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We are looking for very
rare labile signs, right?
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Almost like writing your name on
the sand, and when the wave comes,
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this trace is gone. And so equally
for, uh, for the cancer and,
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and for Lyme disease,
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we are looking at something very
fragile in the bodily fluid. And,
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and the same approach of
capturing and preserving and
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concentrated this, uh, very
fragile biological traces,
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has held the same value for
cancer and for the Lyme disease.
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And so it's like really
finding the classic hay, um,
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needle in the haystack,
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00:16:40,055 --> 00:16:45,035
but with the complication that the
needle is being eaten very quickly by
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something. Yeah.
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So why is early detection important?
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Early detection is very important because
it can result in better outcome for
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the patients, their family, um,
the healthcare system, right?
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And we hope to push it even
further to prevention, right? And,
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and it's always better to treat a,
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a disease at the very beginning where
the implications are minimal and
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the outlook for a therapy is much
better. And, and that's true, you know,
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for cancer and all the programs
for imaging and screening. And,
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and that is true also, um,
for the infectious diseases.
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So can this work be
applied to other diseases?
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I assume that there may be other things
transmitted through ticks or other types
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of diseases in general. What
else are you looking at?
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Absolutely. One tick can
transmit many, many diseases,
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upwards almost 20. Luckily,
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they are much less widespread than
Lyme disease and any, and in one,
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uh, embodiment of the test, we do
test for all the other diseases. And,
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and there are names that are
less known, probably babesiosis,
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Rocky Mountain spotted fever--
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That one is actually quite common,
right? I I I've heard of that one.
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And, and maybe in different areas,
right? Not necessarily in the,
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in the East coast. And so all of that,
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there are terrible viruses that they are
encephalitis generating viruses, and,
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and they're very, actually
very little. So the, so we can,
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with the same approach in, in
one, uh, very small cup of urine,
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identify all of this,
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but then it can transcend the ticks and
look for other vector borne diseases:
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mosquito borne diseases.
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But the reality is that it can be a
solution for also other diseases at all.
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For example,
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we are collaborating for predicting
a pain crisis for sickle cell disease
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children. And, and so the, the idea
being that by monitoring the wellness or,
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or signs and, and alarm
signals in the body,
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we can monitor the wellness and,
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and hopefully predict when
something bad happens.
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So what about moving over to the
veterinary side of the house?
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Are we able to detect diseases
in animals using some of the same
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techniques?
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Absolutely.
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For the fact that we target the
bacterium and so the causative agents of
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disease, that's exactly the
same. And, and our friends,
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our pets also, uh, different animals,
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they do harbor the same bacterium.
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So it's absolutely
translatable to animals.
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And it's actually is at the heart
of how this Lyme test came to be.
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And the whole idea came
from a high school summer
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intern who came to work in the lab
many years ago, and now she has,
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you know, her PhD, and a beautiful
family. and her name is Temple Douglas.
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And Temple wanted to do something
for her family that was highly
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hit by Lyme disease. Her mom, her sister,
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they had terrible time dealing with it.
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And so she came in one summer in
high school, she developed a test,
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she published a paper.
She was the first author.
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00:19:55,065 --> 00:19:55,898
Oh, first author!
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On the publication. She did it.
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Nice.
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And, uh, and the first patient
who was published, it was her dog.
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patient number one.
Outstanding. Outstanding.
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So you were honored by the State
Council of Higher Education,
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which we call here SCHEV, with a
2023 outstanding faculty award.
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How does your work as a
researcher inform your teaching
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philosophy?
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00:20:23,244 --> 00:20:27,045
Teaching and, and research, I believe
they're intimately connected. And,
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00:20:27,046 --> 00:20:31,325
and to me, it is difficult to
think of one without the other.
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00:20:31,585 --> 00:20:36,125
And I do love, uh, working
with students and, and,
335
00:20:36,325 --> 00:20:41,244
and students are kind of the reason I
get out of bed and the way I feel it's
336
00:20:41,355 --> 00:20:46,005
more effective to teach is working
together, learning as we do,
337
00:20:46,255 --> 00:20:48,885
learn as we solve an issue,
338
00:20:49,185 --> 00:20:53,885
as we--even put our brain
together to identify
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00:20:54,585 --> 00:20:58,005
the issue. And, and the, the
teaching involves knowledge,
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00:20:58,105 --> 00:21:02,365
but involves also creativity and
resilience and collaboration,
341
00:21:02,385 --> 00:21:07,125
and how to be professional. So it becomes
like a, a different experience. Yeah.
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00:21:07,605 --> 00:21:09,645
Mm. Understood. Understood. Pre pandemic,
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the partnership with the Italian
universities we spoke about earlier,
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included a class on translational
research with students from both
345
00:21:18,825 --> 00:21:21,765
George Mason and the University of Padua.
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00:21:22,234 --> 00:21:26,725
What do students gain from this kind
of cross-cultural collaboration in the
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00:21:26,726 --> 00:21:27,685
classroom and beyond?
348
00:21:28,655 --> 00:21:30,285
Based on the feedback we received,
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00:21:30,725 --> 00:21:34,605
I think they gather a lot
and they were exposed,
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00:21:34,625 --> 00:21:38,525
or they are exposed to leading
scientists in their field.
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00:21:38,845 --> 00:21:42,405
And scientists can relay firsthand, um,
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00:21:42,405 --> 00:21:46,565
their experience with that translational
research and how to bring the science
353
00:21:46,744 --> 00:21:49,605
to the patient bedside and the community.
354
00:21:50,265 --> 00:21:54,885
But also there are very interesting
and engaging conversation in terms of,
355
00:21:55,025 --> 00:21:59,565
for example, the universal
healthcare system that Italy has and,
356
00:21:59,845 --> 00:22:02,285
and has been going on forever,
and the US system, and,
357
00:22:02,566 --> 00:22:04,565
and what is good and what is bad. And,
358
00:22:04,665 --> 00:22:09,445
and there was a great input from
patient advocacy groups and, and,
359
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and voice of people who
live the disease on their
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00:22:14,234 --> 00:22:18,885
skin and their family members. And
so the, the conversation was, uh,
361
00:22:19,595 --> 00:22:22,244
very sparkly. And of course, the Italians,
362
00:22:22,245 --> 00:22:25,325
they do bring a lot of color
and hand gesture and passion,
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00:22:25,905 --> 00:22:30,525
but it was also good to have a deep
dive in science in the mornings.
364
00:22:30,545 --> 00:22:34,325
And then in the afternoon, uh,
student could enjoy art and, and,
365
00:22:34,525 --> 00:22:38,965
and history and cuisine. So,
uh, it's a, I believe, a,
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00:22:39,085 --> 00:22:42,405
a good model to teach
and learn and, and, uh,
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00:22:42,845 --> 00:22:45,445
exchange different visions
and point of views.
368
00:22:46,845 --> 00:22:48,885
In, in terms of our students, what do,
369
00:22:48,886 --> 00:22:53,365
what do you hope they learn from engaging
on international collaborators? You,
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00:22:53,366 --> 00:22:56,805
you know, we, for lack of a
better way of saying this,
371
00:22:57,345 --> 00:23:01,605
the connection between US
students and foreign students, uh,
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00:23:01,635 --> 00:23:05,005
it's one of the areas that is
challenged right now in the country.
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00:23:05,945 --> 00:23:10,925
And I think we are not
paying attention to some of
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00:23:10,926 --> 00:23:15,605
the real benefits of having people
from all over the globe come to
375
00:23:15,825 --> 00:23:17,645
one place to study and to learn.
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00:23:18,025 --> 00:23:22,885
If you look at the great
centers of learning historically
have always been like
377
00:23:22,886 --> 00:23:26,405
that, right? You can go back to the,
378
00:23:26,744 --> 00:23:31,565
the education in, in, in the
Greeks, and you go, you know,
379
00:23:31,566 --> 00:23:34,244
further into Egypt and into Alexandria.
380
00:23:34,585 --> 00:23:38,605
And these centers of
learning always drew people
381
00:23:39,315 --> 00:23:42,965
from all over. Europe had
these great institutions,
382
00:23:43,785 --> 00:23:46,565
and during the whole
period of enlightenment,
383
00:23:46,585 --> 00:23:50,925
people came from all over the world
to study in the Europe and learn.
384
00:23:51,435 --> 00:23:54,165
And now the US is the place for that.
385
00:23:54,845 --> 00:23:58,965
I just think that in all of the back
and forth that we're dealing with now,
386
00:23:59,255 --> 00:24:03,885
there is something fundamental there
that we're missing and you engage in this
387
00:24:03,886 --> 00:24:06,445
kind of work. So talk
to me a little about it.
388
00:24:07,065 --> 00:24:11,765
I cannot say enough how important
a global reach for science and
389
00:24:12,085 --> 00:24:14,484
research is. And it's
a matter of knowledge,
390
00:24:14,805 --> 00:24:18,045
it's a matter of exchange of samples,
391
00:24:18,765 --> 00:24:22,925
exchange of technology, uh,
understanding different needs,
392
00:24:23,115 --> 00:24:27,125
understanding different realities,
and understanding culture,
393
00:24:27,575 --> 00:24:28,385
local culture,
394
00:24:28,385 --> 00:24:33,165
and how that plays into
the overall research
395
00:24:33,166 --> 00:24:36,765
enterprise. And science is a universal
language, right? And, and, and--
396
00:24:36,785 --> 00:24:37,618
That it is.
397
00:24:37,665 --> 00:24:39,605
And, and we can go everywhere and,
398
00:24:39,845 --> 00:24:44,125
and cancer hits us in the US like
it hits people in, in Italy. And,
399
00:24:44,405 --> 00:24:47,925
and the way we can learn what causes it,
400
00:24:48,515 --> 00:24:51,165
it's deeply embedded in
this constant exchange.
401
00:24:51,265 --> 00:24:53,645
And I hear you very much in Padua, uh,
402
00:24:53,705 --> 00:24:57,445
in Italy is a university
that was funded in the 1300.
403
00:24:58,185 --> 00:25:03,005
And the motto is knowledge is
open to the universe.
404
00:25:03,035 --> 00:25:06,405
It is the university,
405
00:25:07,525 --> 00:25:12,045
and it's in the world itself. Like
it's a universal, in universe.
406
00:25:13,085 --> 00:25:13,505
And the,
407
00:25:13,505 --> 00:25:18,244
the very nature of the
work we do is global and
408
00:25:18,295 --> 00:25:22,045
needs to, to be global, to
flourish and move forward.
409
00:25:22,994 --> 00:25:26,525
Well, we're gonna have to
leave it there. Alessandra,
410
00:25:26,575 --> 00:25:31,565
thank you for your continued work in
disease detection so that we can all live
411
00:25:31,566 --> 00:25:34,765
healthier, happier lives. And I really,
412
00:25:34,766 --> 00:25:38,845
really appreciate the work you're doing
and the impact that it's having on the
413
00:25:38,846 --> 00:25:39,575
planet.
414
00:25:39,575 --> 00:25:42,165
Thank you very much, President
Washington. It was a pleasure.
415
00:25:42,175 --> 00:25:43,285
Thank you for the opportunity.
416
00:25:43,885 --> 00:25:48,244
Oh, outstanding. I am George Mason
President Gregory Washington.
417
00:25:48,465 --> 00:25:49,525
Thanks for listening.
418
00:25:50,025 --> 00:25:54,205
And tune in next time for more
conversations that show why
419
00:25:54,825 --> 00:25:57,005
we are all together different.
420
00:25:59,744 --> 00:26:01,165
If you like what you
heard on this podcast,
421
00:26:01,625 --> 00:26:06,244
go to podcast.gmu.edu for
more of Gregory Washington's
422
00:26:06,245 --> 00:26:08,445
conversations with the
thought leaders, experts,
423
00:26:08,665 --> 00:26:13,285
and educators who take on the grand
challenges facing our students, graduates,
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00:26:13,305 --> 00:26:17,405
and higher education.
That's podcast.gmu.edu.
