Remote Control: Are You Leading People, or Just Managing Screens?

WEBVTT
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In this age where it's only going to get more tech, we've got AI coming into all of these meetings as well and taking notes.
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Let's get the human back into it.
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If you are in charge of trying to unify and bring together teams and lead them, this is for you.
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Being available and being open on those channels so that people can come to you with, oh, this is a problem, or I've got to do this, or I don't know how to do this.
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Think about them more like tennis balls that you're catching and throwing back.
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So those quick instant responses of, have you thought about this, or maybe go and talk to so-and-so?
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Rather than boulders that are being thrown at you that you've now got to hold exactly.
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Somebody said to me years ago there was a house that we kept passing on a dog walk, and it had clearly been built on gradually, gradually, and he called it the unintentional house because it looks like it had been cobbled together.
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And it's that, isn't it?
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That was never architectured.
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And so the same goes with how we have meetings, is well, we always have the team meeting like that.
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You're not putting it into a cohesive plan.
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You want to knock that building down and rebuild it, basically.
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This is very often why people first get in touch with 4D Human Being, Philip.
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Absolutely.
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Hello, my name's Philip Walla.
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My name is Penelope Waller, and we are two of the directors at 4D Human Being.
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And welcome to the 4D Human Being podcast.
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What's it all about, Pen?
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It's all about your personal and professional relationships, it's about your communication skills, how you lead, how you work and build teams, how you are looking after yourself and your well-being, and how you are much more at choice.
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What do we mean by that?
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Well, sometimes we can get a little caught in patterns in life.
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We can all be a little bit on our automatic pilot.
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So 40 human being is all about helping us get back to choice and being a four-dimensional human being, and your fourth dimension, of course, is intention.
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So whether it's about your impact, your leadership style, your team dynamics, whether it's about your well-being, whether it's about your communication or your presentation skills.
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Anything that involves human beings interacting with other human beings, 4D Human Being are here to help.
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We're gonna take a deep dive and look at some tools, insights, theories that are gonna help you go from a 3D human doing to a 4D human being so that you can happen to the world rather than the world simply happening to you.
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Right, recording.
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Recording! Hello on this lovely Saturday morning.
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Hello and welcome to episode three of a four-part series.
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Yeah, love a series, Phil.
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Love a series.
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I have to say when I see a series on a podcast, I'll dive in now.
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Well, you can see.
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If I see one episode now, I'm going, no, no.
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Well, that's right, because it's worth my investment.
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Yeah, well, it's sort of like, you know, that's gonna, that doobey's gonna wrap me up for a few weeks, isn't it?
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That's gonna that's gonna take me through Sit October.
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Exactly.
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So we very much hope our listeners feel the same about our choice to do a four-part series on a very important topic that some people might think, oh, I don't know if I want to talk about virtual leadership and virtual impact, but literally in the professional sphere, corporate sphere in which we operate, this is what we are spending our time doing.
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Well, it's sort of not really talking about remote leadership, it's just talking about leadership, isn't it?
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That is true.
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And actually getting back to leadership.
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Exactly.
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I think we've got a bit lost.
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Yes, rather than the tech sort of running the show, going to talk about that.
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So this episode, episode three, so let's just put it in context.
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So episode one was about your impact online.
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So everybody, whether that's sort of you know, C-suite, down to team members, early in career, everybody, yeah, how you as an individual show up online.
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And this is very often why people first get in touch with 40 human beings film.
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Absolutely.
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Impact, impact.
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Impact, impact.
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Uh, secondly, us of the next episode was on engagement and participation.
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So both of those pieces being two sides of the same coin, how do we engage people and how do we really take responsibility for participating and not uh create the tumbleweed death by remote meeting situations that we all know?
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And then this one is I think super interesting because there's crossover in all of these, of course, but today we're really, really talking to you leaders, team leaders, um sort of heads of small groups, departments, or even massive organizers.
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If you're running a theatre, a region, a zone globally, if you are in charge of trying to unify and bring together teams and lead them, this is for you.
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The next episode who aren't all in the same geographical place.
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Who aren't all in the same geographical place or aren't certainly aren't in the same office.
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The next, the last episode is just to be really clear, because there again there is some crossover, but the last episode is how do you really unite as a team.
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Um, as a team, how do you unite across and that's and that's talking to everybody.
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So whether you're the most junior person in the team or the most senior person in the team, we're really talking about team dynamics and virtual relationships and how all of those kind of personal pieces can come up.
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And this is this is much more about leadership.
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And interestingly, when I when I think about these four topics, so our impact, getting sort of engagement and participation, leadership and sort of team dynamics.
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If I had to think about, I mean, partly because of the client base that I work with, if I had to think about what I get asked about, it generally is this topic.
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It generally is I'm leading a new a new team, they're they're global, I haven't met some of them yet.
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What do I need to do?
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And it's it's interesting actually because when you and I speak about the virtual world, we will tend to go to impact first.
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I mean, it's it's the thing that we think sits at the absolute core.
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Um, so we do encourage people to think about that, but interestingly, I think this is the one that can be top of mind for a lot of leaders.
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It's kind of the scaffolding, isn't it?
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It's kind of the scaffolding.
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What do I need to do different things?
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Exactly.
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And how do I construct my sort of day-to-day way of working and thinking and strategizing that means then I can put my impact and on top of that and I can engage people.
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And also, this is something that comes up a lot with my coaching clients is I've got my job to do.
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I've got to do my job while also thinking about how am I managing spinning all these plates as well.
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And do you know what I think is quite interesting about this is yes, I know organisations talk a lot about sort of operating models and and you know how how things are actually going to work.
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But I would say, and you know, maybe it's to show my age a bit, but I would say back in the day when I was working.
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Only if you're showing that sort of very young, youthful age.
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Look at us in our pink, groovy pink today, Phil.
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Looking very groovy autumn pink.
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If I if I was thinking about when I was a leader back in the back in the days, honestly, back in the 19th century.
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But when we had those sort of uh sort of slightly star or triangular-shaped conference phones in the middle of the desk, and that was as high tech as it got.
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And if you had leaning in, leaning in, and if you had a conference call with people dialing in from the States or whatever, it was like a really big deal.
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Like do you know what it was the exception?
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Yeah, yeah.
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And do you know what?
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That really that's a thread to next week.
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Let's say we'll lay out the agenda for today, but that really speaks to next week.
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When we think about, and it's relevant for today, when we think about where we've come from and all of our kind of narrative and experience, somebody dialing in on the intercom at the centre of the desk was we're all in the room going, oh, strange voice coming up in the middle of the room.
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You can hardly hear.
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And and and yes, of course, I mean the tech is completely, you know, different now.
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But if we think about that thread, yeah, actually, that's the that's the stranger.
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Yes, that's the other.
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That's right, and that hasn't really changed.
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And that has been changed.
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But but so and going back to what I was gonna say is I I can remember thinking about when I did leadership when I was a participant in leadership programs, I felt the thrust of it was really about.
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I mean, there were some traditional things such as time management and all that kind of stuff, but lots of it was about what's your leadership style.
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That was much more about the interactivity.
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There wasn't so much about what we're gonna talk to today, which is really thinking about how you actually run and operate plan and run and be and be a leader in those more sort of practical ways, because you sort of didn't need to, like you had your office, your team was sitting outside your office, and you just popped in and out.
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That's right, that's right.
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Well, that's right, that's right.
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I mean, we don't even need a shared agenda because that there's just so much of that information.
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You didn't have a shared agenda, nobody could see there wasn't an agenda.
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Or also, I mean it again, you know, it really speaks to what to why we're talking about doing it remotely, because all of that informal bumping into each other and just sitting next to that it's all being done.
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That was what we called work.
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That was what we called leadership.
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But also, that's the information field.
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That's how we know when the next meeting is or what the meeting's about.
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Yeah, yeah.
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It was just constantly in the field.
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And you didn't really have to think, oh, I wonder how I'm going to sort of get my team together.
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How am I going to talk to Bob?
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Yeah.
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Or you can see him.
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Yeah.
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I wonder I wonder how I'll I'll sort of I wonder how I'll construct things and get the right people so that we talk about that particular project.
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Did you just walk down here and go exactly and go, Dave, Bob, something.
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Can we be quick?
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Exactly, exactly, exactly.
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Okay, so let's do the agenda because we're because we have to we have to rein in this octopus.
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And then straight out to the pub as well, isn't it?
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Anyway, let's look at the agenda, because this is like an octopus at this topic, okay, as we've already discovered.
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So, and we will talk about what we mean.
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We're gonna try and keep it quite lean, aren't we?
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Because we are we we really want to keep the team dynamic separate for next time.
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So we're gonna look at what we mean by remote leadership, why it matters, and then we're going to look at three areas and then tools.
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So the three areas are firstly mindset, your mindset as a leader of remote and hybrid teams organizations.
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Secondly, the strategic thinking, and for me, this is one of the most interesting is what decisions are you making about how to use and when to use the tech, you know, all of the streams and channels that you've got available to you now, exactly as you're talking about.
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You don't just have an open plan office where it's all happening.
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You've got to make those decisions about which meeting should be in which format or which channels.
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And I think this is exactly the piece that that needs more work now.
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And I think in part, as leaders, we've sort of let it happen to us.
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And then we're trying to we're trying to lead in a sort of a daily or weekly structure that just seems to have happened to us rather than recognising the patterns being intentional because somebody said to me years ago, there was a house that we kept passing on a dog walk, and it had clearly been built on gradually, gradually, and he called it the unintentional house because it looked like it had been cobbled together.
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And it's that, isn't it?
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That you know, then you just go, we just have to live with it.
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You have to live with it now, because it was never architectured.
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And and so the same goes with how we have meetings, is well, we always have the team meeting like that, and then and then suddenly, you know, people like us come in as you know, trainers and developers and say, Oh, you know, have you thought about sending a one-minute video?
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So then you're sort of sticking that on somewhere and saying and you're not or Bob in Australia.
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Well, he's always got to do three o'clock in the morning.
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Yes, exactly.
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And you're not really, you're not putting it into a cohesive plan.
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You want to knock that building down and rebuild it, basically.
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Number three is how you show up as a leader.
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So we're gonna kind of pull through a bit from that impact, but much more through the lens of you as a leader, how you're actually showing up, really thinking about how you're engaging and uh including people.
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We'll talk more about that.
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And then finally, we're gonna look at some tools.
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So, what do we mean by remote leadership?
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Well, remote leadership is not a nice niche skill anymore, is it?
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It's just leadership, as we say.
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I honestly don't know if I can think of anybody now.
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I mean, maybe in more kind of like uh not even manufacturing, actually, if I think about you know no, I mean our big our big our big manufacturing and engineering client, even more so actually, because lots of factories are being built in Eastern Europe or Asia or so it's it's it's rare these days that you've got a team in one place.
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Also, small businesses, you know, all of us with smaller businesses, we've got our marketing or our EA or our web developers.
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They're not next to them.
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They're not they're not seeing an example.
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No, no.
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So we've got think about remote leadership as splitting really broadly, as splitting into two arenas, formal and informal.
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Your formal arena is all of those meetings, presentations, sort of feedback, one-to-one, when you're visibly on, you're really in your leadership role.
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And then there's the informal, which is all of your um kind of whatever channels you use, WhatsApp, Slack, your your your kind of voice notes, comments on someone's posts, the video, it is just constant, isn't it?
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The the comments on someone's post on LinkedIn, all of those unscheduled moments that used to happen by the coffee machine and now don't happen unless you deliberately make them happen.
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And we want to talk about that.
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And and as a great remote leader, you need to be master or mistress of both.
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100%.
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100%.
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And why does that matter?
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Well, it really, really matters.
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I mean, as Philippa said, this is this is the norm now, really.
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So it's even quite interesting when people say to me, Oh, I've you know, I've just got a promotion and actually I'm gonna be running a sort of a diverse team across various countries, and I really need to think about what I'm how I'm gonna do that.
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And it's interesting that we still we still think like that.
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It's still, it's it still sort of feels to us like it's not the norm when actually it is the norm.
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So I I know I I don't know if we've taken enough time to really think about it.
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Like we said before, we've just kind of sort of built the unintentional house.
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It does really matter.
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So, aside from the impact, where managers leaders account for 70% of the variance in team engagement.
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So, as we always say with leaders, our eyes are on you, you are the most senior person in the room.
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It's automatic in human nature that that is where the attention goes.
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You know, we often say when we go to these dinners with cohorts when we're running leadership programs, and very often we have very senior guests from the corporation to come and it's about networking and meeting people, and very often 100% of the eyes on the dining table are at that most senior leader.
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So your impact as the leader is enormous, and even if you're online and you think, well, you know, they're not really looking at me, they are looking at you.
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So it really, really matters.
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Um, only 54% of managers and leaders who supervise remote employees strongly agree that they trust their teams to be productive.
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And this is really talking about mindset here and things that are going on inside of our minds, our brains as leaders, the assumptions that we're making about um our employees.
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And how much of that you're gonna do.
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And it really shifts when we're talking about remote teams as well.
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87% of people want to work from home at least one day a week, and 68% say a genuine mix is the ideal way of working.
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I think this is particularly true.
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I hear this a lot in terms of recruitment with the younger generation, with Gen Z.
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It's just expected now.
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So I don't think anytime soon we can expect things to change, and I have to say, there is has in some countries even been legislation come in whereby there is a right to remote working or at least partial remote working.
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So it's it's here to stay.
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And 76% of employees say that empathy is a genuine, huge driver of productivity.
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I can really, really understand that.
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I mean, we know that we do things for people that we like.
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Yeah, and the number of conversations we have with leaders and teams who are in such a pickle, as we say in English, in uh such a mess, and so much energy and time is going into the processes.
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Well, also the complaining and the difficulty when they do not feel cared for, they do not feel heard, they don't feel they've got a good relationship with their boss.
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Oh my goodness, I mean, the loss of creativity and time and um your relationships and engagement is huge.
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So you so this really speaks to all three of the topics that you mentioned: the mindset, the sort of strategizing, and also how how we show up as leaders.
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Because we know that the vast majority, you know, four-fifths of employees say that empathy will completely change their productivity, and we know lots of other stats and facts around research and science about how we do things much more for people that we trust and that we like.
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And yet, 93% of CEOs admit that more effort is needed to build this into how their organization works.
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We see it a lot of people.
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I mean, 93% think there's so much needs to be done on that in terms of empathy and care.
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And this is so relevant in remote leadership because, like we said earlier, we we do not have those pop for a coffee, bumping into you in the corridor or the lift, um, popping to the pub for uh you know a drink after work.
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We don't have those moments that created really easy ways to have those interactions.
00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:35.359
And I and doubling down on that, I mean, from a sort of human science perspective, when you are in a room with somebody and you're you're sort of physically with them, what we probably haven't recognised enough as human beings is that it's those tiny sort of micro gestures, physicalities that are firing off our mirror neurons and and the neuro coupling that help us to build trust.
00:17:35.519 --> 00:17:39.279
So it is harder to build those relationships and trust on them.
00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:55.920
If you think about that, you know, imagine you're in a meeting for an hour in the room, and there's one moment where you're not happy with something that's been said, and you catch a colleague's eye, and they just give you a little, yeah, no, I'm with you, and that might be the only interaction you had with them.
00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:56.720
It's made a huge connection.
00:17:56.880 --> 00:17:59.440
And it's made a huge connection and an allyship.
00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:00.720
And we that gone.
00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:01.839
Yeah, that's right.
00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:03.200
So so we do need to work hard.
00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:19.119
I know lots of organizations to still do really value that that time together in person, and there are things we can do online to compensate to a large extent for what for what we miss in terms of those human sort of mirror neurons and connection in the room.
00:18:19.279 --> 00:18:20.480
So there are things we can do.
00:18:20.559 --> 00:18:23.759
Yeah, it doesn't it doesn't mean it's easy, but there are things we can do.
00:18:23.839 --> 00:18:25.279
Exactly, it's putting our focus there.
00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:33.839
So let's just look at let's look at some of the pitfalls of remote leadership, and in terms of mindset, first one of course is thinking you can just lead exactly as you said, Penn.
00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:35.519
Crack on in the same way.
00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:41.519
Back in the 19th century, when we were all in the same room, and and of course, you just haven't got the same um informed.
00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:50.000
If ever I say something to my kids, something about I one one of my daughters has got a Charles Dickens book for one of her text for her GCS.
00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:50.640
I know what you mean.
00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:53.920
And I'll say something like, oh, you know, he you know, he wrote this book.
00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:55.359
Well, when you're alive, Mummy.
00:18:55.759 --> 00:18:56.720
So I just get it.
00:18:56.799 --> 00:18:57.279
All the time.
00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:02.000
Basically, they imagine well, you wouldn't have been in an office then, of course, you'd have been in a bustle with a paragraph.
00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:02.160
Yeah.
00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:04.640
But did you did you write with a feather, Mum?
00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:05.839
Oh my god.
00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:09.039
Andy, Andy's gonna have an absolute field day with that vision.
00:19:09.440 --> 00:19:09.920
Oh my god.
00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:15.680
Well, you know, we've moved on from the feather and now we're in the tech, but Penn, we all remember the plume.
00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:16.880
Okay, right.
00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:18.000
So that's the first point.
00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:19.119
I love it so much.
00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:20.720
Back in the olden days, a lot.
00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:27.680
Um, but I mean, to be fair, how Generation X, I was just reading about this the other day.
00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:31.119
We really are the generation that has spanned.
00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:38.880
I mean, I suppose all generations feel like this, but really, we have we have spanned a sort of click-on two-channel television.
00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:39.759
Yeah, that's right.
00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:46.319
Um, you know, a telephone that was plugged into the wall, you know, and we and now we're sort of in into territory.
00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:46.960
Madness.
00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:47.599
Madness.
00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:49.359
It is a mad madness.
00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:49.839
Okay.
00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:54.799
The other mindset pitfalls, of course, is letting our assumptions and our kind of patterns.
00:19:54.880 --> 00:20:01.440
You're going to talk more to this, become just the way we do things around here, particularly when we've got people that we're we don't see as often.
00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:03.039
That's that can be very dangerous.
00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:04.880
Strategy pitfalls, yep.
00:20:05.119 --> 00:20:07.039
Letting the diary decide.
00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:10.000
So that the diary just becomes the boss of it.
00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:13.680
There's a link to the meeting, so that's how we do that meeting.
00:20:13.839 --> 00:20:20.400
Or that's, you know, I haven't got any time to walk the floor or the equivalent in the remote space because the diary, the diary, the diary.
00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:21.839
Uh, time zone imbalances.
00:20:24.079 --> 00:20:25.119
People fill up your diary.
00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:26.160
Oh, other people.
00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:27.440
Other people fill your diary.
00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:28.799
They come in.
00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:31.759
Well, gone are the days of having a paper diary that you control.
00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:37.599
And that goes to one of our other topics, which is discernment, which is basically saying no, isn't it?
00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:39.839
Um, time zone imbalances.
00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:45.279
Um, and it's a really obvious one, but again, you know, it's something we need to consider and think about.
00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:50.240
How many conversations have we had with people who are saying, you know, I've got to have a meeting at 11 o'clock tonight.
00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:51.039
Yeah, yeah.
00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:56.720
Um, the wrong type of distractions, or yeah, all the pings and zings and the chaos.
00:20:56.799 --> 00:21:03.279
Um, not to mention when you're actually on a meeting and you've got other pings, notifications coming in, and you've got exactly other things you could be doing on another device.
00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:05.039
I mean, so I love the idea.
00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:17.039
I mean, I know there's been sort of memes and video, the idea of sort of replicating a virtual meeting in a national and and you you'd be you'd just sort of come in late and then you'd say, sorry, I've just got to go and feed the cat.
00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:20.000
Yeah, or there's some sorry, I'm just gonna go and collect a bike.
00:21:20.240 --> 00:21:20.559
That's right.
00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:21.440
It's just that's right.
00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:22.720
It would be so weird.
00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:23.759
That's right, yeah.
00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:28.480
Or actually, you just start doing you start having a phone call with someone else about something else.
00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:29.680
I know it's so true.
00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:36.400
Also, the proximity bias we've talked to when um there's people that you see more often personally, in person.
00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:42.640
I mean, it just has such an impact on the relationships, and then you start getting silos and favourites, and people get more time than others.
00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:45.279
Only commuting strategy and tasks.
00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:47.359
This is a big one we're gonna talk to.
00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:54.799
That's of course the relationships and the personal moments, they just aren't there naturally, so we have to create them.
00:21:54.960 --> 00:21:59.759
Otherwise, it just becomes about another agenda of things that you as a person are telling.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:05.119
Telling other people what to do, and it then it just becomes like we're all machines and giving instructions.
00:22:05.359 --> 00:22:07.119
There's a slight double whammy with this, isn't there?
00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:09.680
We're basically putting the human back into remote working.
00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:21.680
And we have to be really careful with this, otherwise, we sort of double down on the over-scheduling, which is I would offer that for lots of us, that relational piece, that human piece is missing in our packed virtual agendas.
00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:27.200
And then, as leaders, if we think, right, well, I must, I must really prioritize the relational piece, right?
00:22:27.279 --> 00:22:30.720
So I'm going to completely sort of over-engineer a game.
00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:34.160
We've got to be exactly everyone's going to get a silly hat, and we've got 10 minutes.
00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:34.720
Exactly.
00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:35.920
All get to know each other.
00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:37.359
And the team are like, oh.
00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:40.160
Well, for some people, that's going to have the complete opposite effect.
00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:44.720
Because as soon as you ask them to put a silly hat on, there's that they don't want to talk to anybody and they don't want to be there.
00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:45.680
So we've got to be careful.
00:22:46.079 --> 00:22:51.200
We've got to be careful about over-engineering the relational piece that used to take care of itself in the corridor.
00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:52.000
Do you know what?
00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:55.920
I mean, this is a topic that I mean we've talked about, I think, in a previous podcast.
00:22:56.000 --> 00:22:57.440
It's such a topic that comes up.
00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:00.480
We j you just have got to watch out for polarisation.
00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:11.440
We neither want a sort of mechanized, right, everybody just do your tasks, but neither do we want, right, everybody, you know, have fun! Have fun! We're playing a game, bring a special object, everybody give a gift.
00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:12.559
Like we don't want that either.
00:23:12.640 --> 00:23:15.759
So we just want, we want the human experience.
00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:20.160
I think do you know, do you know what my do you know what my sort of benchmark is to do?
00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:21.920
Everybody, everybody share, oh no.
00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:37.039
My benchmark with this is anything that I could think of as a leader that I could possibly introduce as sort of a let's have some fun, if my daughter's yeah would absolutely just be like, I'm never doing that.
00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:37.519
Yes.
00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:43.680
So we've just introduced the Stella test, which is the eye roll contempt.
00:23:43.759 --> 00:23:47.279
So as a leader, if you think, oh, I know what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna they'll love this.
00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:51.680
And then would my teenage children go, ah, dad or mum?
00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:53.680
Yes, forever.
00:23:54.319 --> 00:23:58.400
Um okay, finally, I'm not doing not doing it, I'm not even coming.
00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:01.039
And well, that's what you're starting to have, you're starting to have absences.
00:24:01.519 --> 00:24:08.880
And then finally, on the flip fours, we talked about um formal versus informal, you know, those what used to be water cooler moments, come on to those days.
00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:11.680
And also, this is a big one public celebration.
00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:15.680
That again, you could have just had those very casual moments in the office.
00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:17.440
Oh, by the way, oh, everybody, listen up.
00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:18.640
Bob did a really good job.
00:24:19.839 --> 00:24:22.799
And you get you just get that little moment of pregnancy, an actual round of applause.
00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:24.640
Yeah, but it was spontaneous.
00:24:24.799 --> 00:24:30.480
Spontaneity is the thing that we it's like we've got to remanufacture spontaneity in the digital age, isn't it?
00:24:30.559 --> 00:24:31.599
Because we just don't have it anymore.
00:24:32.079 --> 00:24:34.160
Okay, let's start, Pen, with number one.
00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:35.839
So, mindset, yes.
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:47.519
So I I again I perhaps some of us are very aware of this, and perhaps some of us aren't as aware of it, but because the environment around us has changed, we have we have shifted, our mindset will shift.
00:24:47.599 --> 00:24:52.480
I mean, it's just what happens to us when there's a different proximity, we have different tech setup.
00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:56.880
Whatever is changing out there in the world is very likely to have a shift in terms of our mindset.
00:24:56.960 --> 00:25:02.319
You can think of this also in terms of when there's huge change going on and disruption, our mindset can get quite challenged.
00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:11.680
So, our mindset can really shift as remote leaders, and we can make all sorts of assumptions about people, about what we should and shouldn't be doing.
00:25:11.839 --> 00:25:20.559
And we have to be really careful about that mindset because it's like the foundation, the bedrock of the choices that we then make in terms of how we lead and what we do.
00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:31.599
And if that mindset and the assumptions that underpin it are not really either in the right place or actually reflecting reality, we start making decisions that are just not going to be helpful.
00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:32.240
Exactly.
00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:43.599
And I think that the for me, one of the biggest challenges with remote and hybrid leadership is with the problem of assumptions that happens for all of us all the time.
00:25:44.160 --> 00:26:05.920
When we're in person, or we're in a slightly, you know, suddenly we're in the we're in the canteen or we're in the corridor or in the lift, or we've got those little spontaneous moments, those assumptions get challenged quite easily because suddenly you just hear this little sentence from Bob who you think is not really engaged, who's you just overhear him saying to someone else, Oh, that project went really well.
00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:06.480
That's right.
00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:12.559
Whereas actually on when we're leading remotely, you've got rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat.
00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:19.039
You've got Bob with exactly the same background in exactly the same location, turning up to the meeting, and so it's the same.
00:26:19.519 --> 00:26:20.799
It looks the same, it looks the same.
00:26:20.960 --> 00:26:22.799
And so your assumptions, you go, yeah, that's Bob.
00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:23.119
That's right.
00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:24.880
Yeah, Bob doesn't, or Bob does.
00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:25.359
That's right.
00:26:43.680 --> 00:26:49.200
And so it's really useful to think about uh a model that we use quite a lot at 4D called the ladder of inference.
00:26:49.279 --> 00:27:00.400
And this is a really brilliant model to understand how we make assumptions as human beings, and again, like I said, and then the assumptions are the absolute bedrock of the choices that we then make.
00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:09.599
And the very first thing in terms of how our brains work, you know, we like to think that we're very rational as human beings and we're very sort of we we we see 100% of reality.
00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:11.599
Well, of uh of course we don't.
00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:15.759
Uh, we're constructing it based on the information that our brains can actually take in.
00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:23.440
So it starts with the pool of data, the pool of available data that you can see, observe, and absorb as a leader.
00:27:24.160 --> 00:27:34.640
And just by fact, your pool of observable data, if you're working remotely or hybrid, will be different, as you've said, to the pool of observable data that we have when we're in the room.
00:27:34.720 --> 00:27:36.960
So already there's a shift.
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:42.000
The second layer would be which pieces of those data you notice and select again.
00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:54.160
It's much harder to notice uh those sort of more nuanced pieces of data online because we've just got people's faces, we don't have anything else, we don't, we can't look at every sort of everybody simultaneously, we can't hear everything.
00:27:54.319 --> 00:27:56.559
So you're restricted in terms of what you take in.
00:27:56.960 --> 00:28:15.039
Yeah, and therefore you're much more likely to select pieces of data that perhaps are not always uh useful or perhaps do not represent the whole picture, then we will start, and then we will reaffirm beliefs perhaps about people who aren't engaged or whatever, and then we get caught in that loop.
00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:17.759
Lots of things come into these assumptions.
00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:22.960
You know, if we've got people sitting in the same room, we will make different assumptions about them than if they're they're online.
00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:34.799
So this is this is really the bedrock of who we are becoming as remote leaders and the choices that we then make in terms of how we direct our our teams and and our and our meetings.
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:47.120
So we really want to be careful about that pool of data and the data that we select as leaders and start challenging it based on the fact that we are in a different context and a different environment.
00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:51.839
And the two things you can do on this is one, seek contrary evidence.
00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:56.720
So your assumption and belief is uh Bob never contributes.
00:28:56.880 --> 00:28:57.759
He never turns his camera on.
00:28:58.160 --> 00:28:59.359
Or he never turns his camera on.
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:02.799
Start to look for contrary evidence.
00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:10.079
Well, actually, when we had the you know, end of project didn't we do a good job meeting?
00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:13.519
Bob did turn his camera on and he did contribute.
00:29:13.599 --> 00:29:17.680
So what yeah, or he's actually he sent me an email before the meeting with an idea.
00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:19.359
Yeah, with an idea, exactly.
00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:21.120
So, so so so exactly that.
00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:25.120
You're looking for contrary evidence, or someone else has said to you, I had a great meeting with Bob.
00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:28.480
So, what does Bob need that helps him do that?
00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:34.079
That actually something about the pattern we've fallen into with remote meetings isn't making it work.
00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:35.680
Where's he working from?
00:29:35.839 --> 00:29:36.960
What's his space like?
00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:38.799
Does he is he restricted?
00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:44.480
Is it some is it the way that the meeting is set up or the way that the the dynamic is happening?
00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:59.039
And just on that, our colleague Matt very often talks about the bad, stupid, lazy sort of trap we can fall into because our brain, you know, we're very thinking that because thinking that that exactly Bob is bad, stupid, or lazy because he didn't contribute in this.
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:06.319
And you know, not not not to sort of criticize yourself about that, but it it's it's human nature because we have a strong negative bias.
00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:07.839
So we have to watch those assumptions.
00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:08.319
Yeah.
00:30:08.559 --> 00:30:14.000
So you're gonna seek contrary evidence, and then the second thing you're gonna do is take counteraction.
00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:18.400
So you might say, Oh Bob, I really want to thank you for that email that you sent with that idea.
00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:19.680
Let's bring that in.
00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:29.680
Or you might um pick one small action that's gonna completely counter your beliefs that, for example, virtual attendees are less engaged.
00:30:29.839 --> 00:30:43.599
So you might um ask a virtual attendee, for example, to to host the next meeting or to um to do a little kind of one-minute interactive moment in the in the session to check in with how people are and what's one thing they'd love.
00:30:43.680 --> 00:30:45.279
So you so counteract.
00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:53.680
If I don't, if I think that virtual attendees aren't it aren't as engaged, I'm gonna do one thing that's gonna really engage the virtual attendees.
00:30:53.759 --> 00:30:56.079
So I'm gonna shift the pattern consciously.
00:30:56.640 --> 00:31:03.680
I've got four words that I think is really useful to think about your mindset, which is open, inclusive, available, and instant.
00:31:04.400 --> 00:31:06.319
Open, inclusive, available, and instant.
00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:11.200
So you're open to different ways of working, that's what we've just talked about, open to challenging those assumptions.
00:31:11.359 --> 00:31:14.720
Your preferred way isn't automatically the best way for everybody else.
00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:22.480
You're inclusive, you don't get stuck in those assumptions and think, well, I'm not gonna bother asking Bob because he never, you never he never contribute.
00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:23.599
Or he makes life difficult.
00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:26.960
It makes life difficult, or you know, Sandra never speaks, or whatever it is.
00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:33.279
You're gonna be inclusive, you're gonna consciously pull those people in and actually make more of an effort with the people who don't speak as much.
00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:37.599
Or you don't think as have got as much to contribute or or are as relevant.
00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:53.920
Actually, you don't know because again, those innovative moments where people with a completely different skill set or m or or knowledge set have actually put something in a project that has it, you know, completely innovated something, but you wouldn't have you wouldn't have known it if it hadn't happened by accident.
00:31:54.079 --> 00:31:54.400
Yeah.
00:31:54.559 --> 00:31:58.880
Um being available, you are a presence, not an event as a remote leader.
00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:07.120
So it really is that being available to not just give yourself to those sort of more formal presentations and team meetings.
00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:09.120
Let's not wait to be diarised.
00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:16.960
Sometimes those little quick moments of a quick message are exactly the thing that unlocks something and makes people feel like you're there for them.
00:32:17.120 --> 00:32:27.359
I mean, this will slightly go into the next the next section, but that is a really good reason to keep some of your diary free because I cannot tell you how many times I hear that those important one-to-one meetings get cancelled over and over again.
00:32:27.599 --> 00:32:31.359
And that will also they don't even you don't even get told, they just disappear out of the diary.
00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:36.960
And I can't and exactly that, I cannot tell you how many times I've said to people, what other channels have you got?
00:32:37.039 --> 00:32:40.160
Can you send a quick WhatsApp or Slack, whatever it is?
00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:41.839
And then finally, instant.
00:32:41.920 --> 00:32:43.759
And I know this is not always easy.
00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:50.079
The more that we can get some of that quick response, and that's the spontaneity that we were just talking to.
00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:54.240
You can't you want to manufacture those corridor moments.
00:32:54.400 --> 00:32:58.480
So even if it's I can't give you an answer right now, but I love you, and and I love the question.
00:32:58.559 --> 00:32:59.599
So thanks for reaching out.
00:32:59.920 --> 00:33:00.240
Something.
00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:05.440
Something because you're immediately gluing that informal connection, which is great.
00:33:05.759 --> 00:33:07.599
Okay, that's your mindset.
00:33:07.839 --> 00:33:09.279
The big one, the strategy.
00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:23.279
The big one! So this this goes back to what we were saying earlier that we perhaps didn't have to think about this back in the day because things kind of took care of themselves, and we had the occasional conference call with people uh who didn't live in the same country, but now this is this is how we operate.
00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:33.519
So we need perhaps not to strategize just around the business results, we need to strategize that's easy for you to say strategize around our leadership.
00:33:33.680 --> 00:33:34.480
Absolutely.
00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:48.960
So this really is about thinking about which meetings, which interactions, which part of my leadership is best in person, online, hybrid, or just what we call those asynchronous.
00:33:49.279 --> 00:33:50.640
I love this last one, Phil.
00:33:50.960 --> 00:33:53.920
I mean, I don't think we consciously think of this as a strategy.
00:33:54.319 --> 00:33:55.680
Let's quickly having no meeting.
00:33:55.839 --> 00:33:56.559
It's having no meeting.
00:33:56.799 --> 00:33:57.359
It is a strategy.
00:33:57.519 --> 00:33:58.400
It is a strategy.
00:33:58.559 --> 00:34:02.880
So the fourth one, so if we just quickly, just as a side note, synchronous and asynchronous.
00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:10.000
So synchronous as a leader of remote teams, synchronous is we're all together in real time having this experience.
00:34:10.079 --> 00:34:20.880
We've all flown into wherever Barcelona we wish, um, and we're all having a think a meeting together, or we're all on we're all on an online meeting or in a hybrid meeting, and we're all doing it together.
00:34:21.199 --> 00:34:23.519
Asynchronous is we don't need to do that.
00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:26.719
There might be an email, a document, a little video you can watch.
00:34:26.879 --> 00:34:38.959
There might be a kind of ongoing uh team message board that people can pick that up when they need, and it's a great way for that information to be, you know, moved on and added to, but we don't need to be all doing it together.
00:34:39.039 --> 00:34:40.000
So that is a strategy.
00:34:40.399 --> 00:34:43.599
I do know I really question the update meetings for.
00:34:44.079 --> 00:34:44.239
Yeah.
00:34:44.479 --> 00:34:56.479
I I mean I've sat in them myself, you know, back back in the day, and I have to say, I mean, this is probably a terrible thing to say, but I remember being in finance, and then you get you do your update, and then you get the marketing update.
00:34:57.199 --> 00:35:01.759
And for some of the updates, I was like, oh, I don't really, I don't really want to listen to this.
00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:07.519
And I could probably have got two bullet points on an email that would have been enough instead of that 20-minute update.
00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:19.599
So really I know we want in a way, we want everybody to hear what we've been doing, and what we're saying here is as leaders, is that the most useful way to spend to spend time?
00:35:19.919 --> 00:35:20.159
Exactly.
00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:28.799
What if you had on your asynchronous uh you know, sort of channel, you had a a Friday message board where everybody put their two updates for the week?
00:35:28.879 --> 00:35:34.479
And yeah, or even or even this is the one thing we're celebrating this week, and this is one thing I want everyone, I want everyone to watch out for.
00:35:34.639 --> 00:35:35.839
Exactly, exactly.
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:37.919
So let's let's go through these.
00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:40.319
So, number one, in person.
00:35:40.559 --> 00:35:45.039
When are you gonna spend the budget flying people in or getting people into the office?
00:35:45.279 --> 00:35:46.479
What are you gonna do with that time?
00:35:46.639 --> 00:35:47.839
What are you gonna do with that time?
00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:52.239
Really being strategic, really fourth dimension, intentional dimension.
00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:55.439
Great for creative brainstorming and innovation.
00:35:55.759 --> 00:35:58.239
This is where we want to use this this space the most.
00:35:58.399 --> 00:36:01.279
Onboarding and first weeks, because we want that glue, we want that.
00:36:01.359 --> 00:36:02.239
Oh, who's in this team?
00:36:02.399 --> 00:36:03.759
Now I feel part of this team.
00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:09.119
Maybe coaching and mentoring development for the big things, for the big kind of pivotal moments.
00:36:09.279 --> 00:36:17.199
Maybe team launches or big strategy days, relationship building, sensitive or difficult conversations where possible.
00:36:17.359 --> 00:36:19.279
If we can, better.
00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:20.079
Why?
00:36:20.239 --> 00:36:28.000
Because with innovation and creativity, you're gonna get richer ideas, you're gonna get faster learning, you're gonna get stronger trust, you're gonna make spontaneity.
00:36:28.399 --> 00:36:29.039
Spontaneity.
00:36:29.279 --> 00:36:31.759
You really want to make in-person days count.
00:36:31.839 --> 00:36:35.279
Don't get everybody together and then give them a three-hour update.
00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:37.919
Use it really wisely.
00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:40.879
Don't waste those days on emails and solo work.
00:36:40.959 --> 00:36:46.159
You know, people say, you know, I've got a you know, we've all got together, we're all in Barcelona having an amazing time.
00:36:46.239 --> 00:36:50.319
Um, but I have got 20 emails I've got to write, so I'm gonna step out for two hours.
00:36:50.559 --> 00:36:53.359
No, no, you really be strategic about it.
00:36:53.599 --> 00:36:55.519
Secondly, fully online.
00:36:55.839 --> 00:36:56.799
Everyone's online.
00:36:57.039 --> 00:37:01.759
This is great for decision making, choosing between ideas that you've already generated.
00:37:01.839 --> 00:37:04.000
Right, we've boiled this down to the last four.
00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:04.959
Let's decide.
00:37:05.119 --> 00:37:05.439
Great.
00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:10.879
Regular one-to-ones where it's just that kind of ongoing momentum, nothing huge, no problem in the relationship.
00:37:11.279 --> 00:37:13.359
Prioritize them and prioritize them.
00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:16.399
Uh, project check-ins, you know, gives the space for updates.
00:37:16.799 --> 00:37:17.119
Absolutely.
00:37:17.439 --> 00:37:20.559
Progress reviews, short, I'm gonna say that word again.
00:37:21.199 --> 00:37:26.319
Short, focused team meetings, and obviously global and cross-site meetings.
00:37:26.479 --> 00:37:33.679
There is a game to be played there, and I know we spoke about this um on I think the I think it was the last episode, half-life.
00:37:33.759 --> 00:37:33.919
Yeah.
00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:46.719
So why as a leader, why don't you have a play with the idea of look, well, look, my my weekly hour uh senior leadership team meeting, I'm gonna try and do that in 40 minutes, and then the week after I'm gonna try and do it in 20 minutes.
00:37:46.799 --> 00:37:47.519
See what happens.
00:37:47.679 --> 00:37:48.959
That is the gift that we'll keep on giving.
00:37:49.359 --> 00:37:50.000
People will love it.
00:37:50.159 --> 00:37:51.679
Yeah, so why is that what what you know?
00:37:51.759 --> 00:37:54.959
Why is that the best format for those types of meetings?
00:37:55.039 --> 00:37:56.479
Well, everyone could be on the same footing.
00:37:56.559 --> 00:37:58.879
You're doing those checkpoints, those staging posts.
00:37:58.959 --> 00:38:02.959
It's efficient, it's equally good, if not better, for decision making.
00:38:03.039 --> 00:38:04.719
You just want to kind of move through those.
00:38:04.959 --> 00:38:06.639
Number three, hybrid.
00:38:06.959 --> 00:38:13.039
Obviously, this is for regular team meetings when travel isn't practical, but only when properly hosted.
00:38:13.439 --> 00:38:14.559
We spoke about this last year.
00:38:14.879 --> 00:38:15.919
Episode two.
00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:18.799
So the hybrid is the easiest to get wrong.
00:38:19.039 --> 00:38:24.239
Interestingly, on this, I will say, and this is slightly different because it's talking about training as opposed to leading a team.
00:38:24.399 --> 00:38:30.000
We've been having conversations about a um sort of executive impact and presentation skills training that we're giving.
00:38:30.159 --> 00:38:37.039
And uh initially, because some people are in the same location, they were like, Oh, great, you know, we'll get together in a room and we'll do this, and then the other people will be online.
00:38:37.359 --> 00:38:48.159
And actually, they then had some internal discussions about it, and they really did think about it and thought in a training context, given that we'll be doing breakouts and da da da, will is that really the best?
00:38:48.319 --> 00:38:52.799
And they made a decision that everybody would join virtually, and I thought that is exactly what we're talking about.
00:38:53.119 --> 00:38:55.439
I just think this is a really important point.
00:38:55.759 --> 00:39:05.679
So, this is the danger that you think, well, hybrid is going to be better than everyone online, because at least we've got some people in the room, and it might be sometimes, and it might be sometimes, exactly.
00:39:05.839 --> 00:39:06.799
It really, really might be.
00:39:06.879 --> 00:39:20.479
There might be a really good reason why having those people together, and maybe there's some people that actually they really all that what they need is that they need to listen or they've got some small contributions to make, but maybe the people in the room really do need to tussle something out.
00:39:20.719 --> 00:39:29.039
But actually, there's going to be pitfalls with this because sometimes having some people in a room and some and some online is actually worse.
00:39:29.199 --> 00:39:33.279
And it feels weird because you say, Well, those six people could all come into the same room.
00:39:33.359 --> 00:39:37.679
In fact, they're even dialing in from different parts in the same office, but that might be better.
00:39:37.919 --> 00:39:38.479
I know I love it.
00:39:40.079 --> 00:39:41.279
Finally, asynchronous.
00:39:41.359 --> 00:39:42.000
We've just talked about that.
00:39:43.359 --> 00:39:46.479
I'm I'm gonna go around saying, Well, I've decided to work in an asynchronous way today.
00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:47.519
No meeting.
00:39:47.759 --> 00:39:49.919
Exactly, there's no time aligning.
00:39:50.079 --> 00:39:54.639
This is um uh status updates, information sharing, this is video briefing.
00:39:54.959 --> 00:39:55.919
We should be using that more.
00:39:56.079 --> 00:40:00.319
Yeah, shared documents, feedback on drafts, definitely feedback on drafts.
00:40:00.399 --> 00:40:04.399
We don't all need to sit and go through drafts together, no, um, and working across time zones.
00:40:04.559 --> 00:40:13.279
This really cuts meeting fatigue, and this really lets people respond in their own working hours, time and style.
00:40:13.439 --> 00:40:15.039
That for me is gold.
00:40:15.199 --> 00:40:18.319
So don't underestimate asynchronous, even though you're not all together.
00:40:18.399 --> 00:40:21.279
You know, it's like WhatsApp groups, you can create a lot of fun.
00:40:21.679 --> 00:40:34.959
And I I and again, just to use our business as an example here, despite how much we love our work and we love our business, we do have to remind ourselves sometimes that the world won't stop turning as a result of, you know, as a result of the work that we do.
00:40:35.119 --> 00:40:40.000
I mean, obviously, there are some companies in the world that are doing things that are so critical, the world might start.
00:40:40.239 --> 00:40:41.759
But most of us aren't an emergency service.
00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:42.639
No, exactly.
00:40:42.959 --> 00:40:48.559
So it works very well with our international clients that emails come in overnight, we respond the next day.
00:40:48.639 --> 00:40:51.759
Like there's plenty of plenty of time and scope to do that.
00:40:51.839 --> 00:40:56.559
And actually, it gives you time to digest it, think about it a different way, you probably respond in a different way.
00:40:56.719 --> 00:40:57.439
It works brilliantly.
00:40:57.519 --> 00:41:06.239
Now, very occasionally, maybe if there's a very tight deadline, we might have to all get together at a time that's not, it's not a brilliant time of day, but it's pretty rare we have to do that.
00:41:06.399 --> 00:41:07.839
Well, also, you've got the big bonus.
00:41:07.919 --> 00:41:14.319
We used to talk about this when I used to write film scripts, and there were three of us, and two of us were in the UK and one was on the West Coast.
00:41:14.479 --> 00:41:16.719
I think no new New York for a while.
00:41:16.879 --> 00:41:25.839
So we'd and we'd be sending script notes back and forth, and we used to joke that the sun never sets on these scripts because you had a 24-hour cycle of yeah, it was being worked on all the time.
00:41:25.919 --> 00:41:27.679
And think about that in terms of productivity.
00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:29.919
That's more that's more as a leader to think about your team.
00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:30.879
We've got a 24 RT.
00:41:31.039 --> 00:41:32.559
Yeah, we've got 24 RT, love that.
00:41:32.719 --> 00:41:34.239
Don't have to squeeze everything into eight hours.
00:41:34.639 --> 00:41:35.039
Exactly.
00:41:35.279 --> 00:41:41.119
Okay, so we're gonna move um quite briefly on to part three, which is how you show up, inclusion in every voice.
00:41:41.279 --> 00:41:51.599
You can go back to episodes one and two for this, but really you want to think about showing up energized, awake, engaged, informed, awake, engaged, informed.
00:41:51.759 --> 00:41:52.559
Never forget that.
00:41:52.719 --> 00:41:57.119
Make sure the people that you are leading are awake and engaged before you start giving it.
00:41:57.279 --> 00:42:03.279
And one thing I will say on this is just remember, as we've as we just said, the eyes are on you.
00:42:03.359 --> 00:42:03.679
Yeah.
00:42:03.919 --> 00:42:14.959
So, in terms of your impact, whilst you are likely in some cases to be the most senior person on the virtual or hybrid call, you've got a lot going on, somebody might need something from you.
00:42:15.119 --> 00:42:16.239
Yes, yes, yes.
00:42:16.479 --> 00:42:18.639
And just notice that people are looking at you.
00:42:18.719 --> 00:42:27.599
So, whenever I see a senior leader, whether it's in the room or online, sort of distracted or looking at their phone, you are giving permission to everybody else that they can do the same.
00:42:27.839 --> 00:42:29.679
So to be really careful about how you show up.
00:42:29.919 --> 00:42:33.199
And I love this one of actually thinking about going remote first.
00:42:33.519 --> 00:42:35.439
Prioritize the people who aren't in the room.
00:42:35.599 --> 00:42:36.000
Yes.
00:42:36.239 --> 00:42:38.319
Because that might create some balance for you.
00:42:38.879 --> 00:42:47.279
Um, right before you speak, give everybody uh two minutes to write something down before they speak, and here you're really gonna manage those introvert extroverts in hybrid.
00:42:47.439 --> 00:42:48.479
Really watch out for that.
00:42:48.639 --> 00:42:57.839
You've got internal processes and external processes, people like me who think as they speak, and other people who need some time, and you really want to manage that to get the best from your team.
00:42:57.919 --> 00:43:01.519
So give them that bit of space, take a couple of minutes, go into a breakout, come back.
00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:06.479
Yeah, it's a really, excuse me, it's a really good tip to think about how you lead.
00:43:06.559 --> 00:43:11.119
And perhaps, again, when we're all in the room together, we didn't have to think about it so much.
00:43:11.279 --> 00:43:16.559
But your leadership techniques, really in those micro moments, really need to take account.
00:43:16.719 --> 00:43:29.599
Don't just assume that people aren't engaged, take account of people's different thinking styles, the way of working, introvert, extrovert, so we can adapt our leadership in tiny moments to make sure that everybody we get the best out of everybody.
00:43:30.079 --> 00:43:36.719
Shift your thinking from either they're not engaging or why aren't they engaging to how can they be engaged?
00:43:36.879 --> 00:43:38.159
How can I get them engaged?
00:43:38.399 --> 00:43:41.039
And then finally, the fair share check.
00:43:41.279 --> 00:43:46.239
Every week or month, ask yourself who am I not hearing?
00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:48.479
Who am I not seeing?
00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:52.239
And put a spotlight on that relationship.
00:43:52.479 --> 00:43:54.000
How can you bring them in?
00:43:54.159 --> 00:43:55.439
How can you reach out?
00:43:55.599 --> 00:44:05.919
You know, the the amount of points that you get as a leader for reaching out to someone who wouldn't expect you to say, I just wanted to check in and see how you are, because they don't expect that.
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:07.599
You get double points for that.
00:44:07.839 --> 00:44:09.039
So who are you not seeing?
00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:11.359
Can you ping them a message and say, just wanted to check in?
00:44:11.519 --> 00:44:12.159
Is everything okay?
00:44:12.319 --> 00:44:13.359
Let me know if I can do anything.
00:44:13.759 --> 00:44:18.000
I will just say I will just say on this, it's so interesting because also because we've really been looking.
00:44:18.559 --> 00:44:23.519
At sort of relational responsibility recently and who takes responsibility for relationships.
00:44:23.759 --> 00:44:42.879
And if I think about lots and lots of different people that I've worked with over the years at very, very different sort of seniority levels from early in career, mid-management, senior executives, it's very common for people to say, and not complain, but say that well, they don't they didn't reach out to me or they don't reach out to me, and they they can talk about people more senior and more junior than them.
00:44:43.039 --> 00:44:57.279
And it's really interesting how much we think about what other people do and don't do in terms of reaching out, and the only thing we can do is pull it back to ourselves, and that is kind of really exaggerated in the in the virtual and the hybrid world, yeah.
00:44:57.679 --> 00:44:59.199
So, section four.
00:44:59.439 --> 00:45:03.039
So that was your how you can really sort of show up and include.
00:45:03.119 --> 00:45:06.479
And obviously, there's much more on that in the participation episode, episode two.
00:45:06.879 --> 00:45:08.399
And part four is tools.
00:45:08.479 --> 00:45:11.279
So we're gonna give you a few more tools to think about.
00:45:11.439 --> 00:45:20.959
The first one is set your leadership rhythm, which really is about prioritizing, and that really the headline is don't let your diary rule.
00:45:21.199 --> 00:45:27.199
Take a moment to think about listing and prioritizing what you're gonna do this week.
00:45:27.279 --> 00:45:30.719
And notice if you keep letting the one-to-ones fall out of the diary.
00:45:30.799 --> 00:45:32.479
Really notice what you prioritize.
00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:37.439
If you had a blank piece of paper, how would you design your leadership diary for the week?
00:45:37.759 --> 00:45:39.199
I love that it's a piece of paper.
00:45:39.439 --> 00:45:46.399
Um so this is this is uh this is one of Well, my daughter who's just started university, she did actually buy a paper, yeah, paper diary.
00:45:46.559 --> 00:45:48.079
I I think there's something about writing.
00:45:48.479 --> 00:45:50.799
I think we're gonna go back to paper diaries.
00:45:51.039 --> 00:45:51.279
Yeah.
00:45:51.439 --> 00:45:54.000
Um, vision in three, tool two on this one.
00:45:54.159 --> 00:46:00.559
In every update, whether we're doing an asynchronous, so you're just you know doing it on a kind of channel or you're in a meeting.
00:46:00.719 --> 00:46:03.199
This is a brilliant one for remote leadership.
00:46:03.519 --> 00:46:20.559
Find a way very quickly in every meeting to very quickly get in these three things: where we're going, why it matters, and the part that you as a team or you as an individual plays in this, so that that thread doesn't get lost in the kind of noise of remote meetings.
00:46:21.039 --> 00:46:23.359
We've always said we need more clarity and navigation, don't we?
00:46:23.839 --> 00:46:24.959
Anchor every time.
00:46:25.119 --> 00:46:25.279
Yeah.
00:46:25.519 --> 00:46:34.639
Imagine that you've got to read out the poster that used to be in the 1980s office of our mission statement, where we're going, why it matters, and the part you play in it.
00:46:34.719 --> 00:46:36.879
Imagine you've got to communicate that in every meeting.
00:46:37.039 --> 00:46:38.159
Because they can't see it on the office wall.
00:46:38.319 --> 00:46:40.639
They can't see it on the wall, you've got to be the poster.
00:46:40.799 --> 00:46:47.279
Um, tool three is that multi-channel presence, as we mentioned before, you know, use those um WhatsApp, Slack, and Teams chat.
00:46:47.519 --> 00:46:57.279
I want to say one thing on this: being available and being open on those channels so that people can come to you with, oh, this is a problem, or I've got to do this, or I don't know how to do this.
00:46:57.599 --> 00:47:01.359
Think about them more like tennis balls that you're catching and throwing back.
00:47:01.519 --> 00:47:06.399
So those quick instant responses of, have you thought about this, or maybe go and talk to so-and-so?
00:47:06.959 --> 00:47:12.000
Rather than boulders that are being thrown at you that you've now got to hold exactly.
00:47:12.319 --> 00:47:15.279
So think about it, use a metaphor of lightness.
00:47:15.359 --> 00:47:16.639
This has come in, I'm throwing it back.
00:47:16.719 --> 00:47:18.079
I'm now I'm not thinking about it.
00:47:18.239 --> 00:47:21.759
Because the danger is you start to hold all of this stuff and it becomes too much.
00:47:21.919 --> 00:47:32.559
Well, and also as leaders, that really speaks to a completely different topic around kind of empowerment, uh, what you know, what we are taking on board ourselves and what we're allowing our other team, our other team members to do.
00:47:32.639 --> 00:47:38.159
So, like you say, if we kind of gently thread the tennis ball back with a really useful question or idea, yeah, they can go off.
00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:40.479
They can go give them agency, exactly.
00:47:40.639 --> 00:47:43.919
Tool four, recognize specifically and publicly.
00:47:44.079 --> 00:47:55.359
Find those ways, be it a video, be it in a hybrid or remote meeting, be it on one of those um uh shared channels, find a way to recognise specifically and publicly.
00:47:55.519 --> 00:47:58.319
Maybe there's a way that you particularly find an iTunes.
00:47:58.479 --> 00:47:59.759
Like Penn would have a certificate.
00:47:59.919 --> 00:48:00.559
I would love a certificate.
00:48:00.879 --> 00:48:03.679
Sent on the Philippa sometimes send me sends me certificates.
00:48:04.239 --> 00:48:06.000
On our shared WhatsApp, I might send a certificate.
00:48:06.239 --> 00:48:12.639
And this this is really important, this is really important to say because of the uh proximics, you know, we're not with people in the room.
00:48:12.879 --> 00:48:24.639
When we're with people in a room, it's really easy just to sort of gently touch someone's shoulder or make eye contact and say, I just want to say, but when we're virtual, we tend to either miss this altogether or say, Oh, I just want to say everyone, you've done a really great job.
00:48:24.799 --> 00:48:28.479
That is not the same, it does not land the same way in our emotional centres.
00:48:28.879 --> 00:48:29.119
Exactly.
00:48:29.199 --> 00:48:33.119
So fine words, it might be a funny sort of image or a gif or a video that you send.
00:48:33.519 --> 00:48:34.239
Or a certificate.
00:48:34.479 --> 00:48:35.359
Or a certificate.
00:48:35.519 --> 00:48:38.479
It can be a certificate as well, or a bag of muffins.
00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:43.839
Um and finally, and I'm just gonna say the headline of this because I think we've made it really clear.
00:48:44.079 --> 00:48:47.439
Lead the human, not just the task.
00:48:47.679 --> 00:48:50.799
And that's in a way, that's basic leadership, isn't it?
00:48:50.879 --> 00:48:54.719
But that that's what that's what falls through the cracks of remote leadership.
00:48:54.959 --> 00:49:03.279
Well, we we talk about this a lot in leadership, impact, difficult conversations, is that very often we can stick to the intellectual dimension.
00:49:03.359 --> 00:49:05.119
We can stick to the task, the information.
00:49:05.199 --> 00:49:06.319
No, I just need to finish this.
00:49:06.399 --> 00:49:08.559
We've only got 20 minutes left, let me keep going.
00:49:08.799 --> 00:49:15.039
Whereas actually, what we may need to do in a lot of situations is take care of people's emotional dimension as leaders.
00:49:15.439 --> 00:49:24.000
So, a really good thing to think about with this as leaders is are you trying to take care of someone's intellectual dimension or are you taking care of their emotional dimension?
00:49:24.159 --> 00:49:29.039
Because sometimes we need to let go of the intellectual piece and take care of their emotional dimension.
00:49:29.119 --> 00:49:30.799
That is our part of our job as leaders.
00:49:30.959 --> 00:49:43.359
If I had to give one idea to take forward, it would be to play with really dialing up, putting the human and the relationship into the remote technical online world.
00:49:43.599 --> 00:49:45.519
Even if you're thinking, oh, we ought to be.
00:49:47.759 --> 00:49:52.000
Play with it for a day or a week and just see what happens.
00:49:52.239 --> 00:49:55.599
Overbalance it from your perspective and see what happens.
00:49:55.759 --> 00:49:55.919
Yeah.
00:49:56.159 --> 00:49:56.639
I agree.
00:49:56.879 --> 00:49:59.919
We wish you well on your remote leadership.
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:00.799
We're all doing it now.
00:50:00.959 --> 00:50:04.000
I mean, we're doing it with family, I mean, we're just doing it all the time now.
00:50:04.079 --> 00:50:05.519
I mean, it's really what life is.
00:50:05.919 --> 00:50:07.839
But let's get the human back into it.
00:50:07.919 --> 00:50:14.079
I mean, in this age where it's only going to get more tech, we've got AI coming into all of these meetings as well and taking notes.
00:50:14.319 --> 00:50:18.959
We, it's our job to put the human into this remote meeting.
00:50:19.279 --> 00:50:27.519
We we have choices, leaders, we have choices in terms of how we lead and how we structure our days and our weeks and our months and our teams and all the meetings.
00:50:27.679 --> 00:50:31.199
We have a we have probably at least a little bit more choice than we think.
00:50:31.279 --> 00:50:33.119
We might even have a lot more choice than we think.
00:50:33.359 --> 00:50:33.839
Definitely.
00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:41.679
So it's just taking that step back, looking at how things are working, and I think personally, look at how you would operate if you had a blank sheet of paper.
00:50:41.759 --> 00:50:45.199
There might be some things you have to add in, but there might be some things that you change.
00:50:45.439 --> 00:50:46.639
Ooh, P.S.
00:50:47.039 --> 00:50:49.519
How would you like to be led remotely?
00:50:49.759 --> 00:50:49.919
Yeah.
00:50:50.079 --> 00:50:51.199
Maybe think about that.
00:50:51.359 --> 00:50:54.159
Enjoy, take care, see you at the next episode.
00:50:57.679 --> 00:51:02.719
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the 40 Human Being Podcast.
00:51:02.799 --> 00:51:04.239
We hope you enjoyed the show.
00:51:04.399 --> 00:51:16.319
Do take on board some of the insights, tools, and tips because every time that you try something new to get back to choice, you are making a vote for the you that you want to become.
00:51:16.399 --> 00:51:18.000
And I I love that phrase, Pen.
00:51:18.159 --> 00:51:18.799
I do too.
00:51:18.959 --> 00:51:27.199
And please do share this episode with somebody that you know would really benefit from the lessons and learnings we've been chatting about today.
00:51:27.439 --> 00:51:32.159
And of course, if you're interested in more from 4D Human Being, do get in touch.
00:51:32.319 --> 00:51:37.279
We run workshops, trainings online, in-person, conference events and keynotes.
00:51:37.359 --> 00:51:49.119
We've got the 4D on demand platform for your whole organization, and we do have a free essentials membership where anybody can sign up for absolutely free to access some of our insights, tools, and tips.
00:51:49.279 --> 00:51:51.599
So do get in touch with us if you'd like to hear more.
00:51:51.679 --> 00:51:55.119
We cannot wait to hear from you and to carry on the conversation.