WKPWP: Interview Classic w/"Superstar" Bill Dundee: A legit fight with Randy Savage including a gun being pulled, working with Jerry Lawler 的完整文字稿

what 68 00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:06.560 I did when I did the interview. 69 00:04:06.580 --> 00:04:06.680 Right. 70 00:04:07.909 --> 00:04:12.069 Anyway that was that and this is now. 71 00:04:12.530 --> 00:04:14.430 You know on that note well first let me give 72 00:04:14.469 --> 00:04:16.910 out the phone numbers because we're absolutely inviting everybody listening 73 00:04:16.949 --> 00:04:18.709 today to give us a call if you've got a 74 00:04:18.750 --> 00:04:21.709 question for Bill if you want to know about Memphis 75 00:04:21.750 --> 00:04:24.629 wrestling history Bill is a big part of the Memphis 76 00:04:24.649 --> 00:04:28.250 Heat documentary great source to talk about that documentary if 77 00:04:28.269 --> 00:04:30.329 you've been fortunate enough to see it if you've got 78 00:04:30.350 --> 00:04:33.310 a question about anybody who passed through Memphis or anything 79 00:04:33.350 --> 00:04:35.769 about the Memphis territory or just old time wrestling as 80 00:04:35.810 --> 00:04:39.029 Bill said You know, he's an old-school guy, and if 81 00:04:39.050 --> 00:04:41.310 you want his opinion on how things have changed, for 82 00:04:41.329 --> 00:04:44.290 the better or for worse, he's open to those calls. 83 00:04:44.689 --> 00:04:45.970 I asked him before he went on the air, and 84 00:04:45.990 --> 00:04:48.449 he said he doesn't watch much wrestling at all these days. 85 00:04:48.529 --> 00:04:51.069 So we don't want people calling up, you know, saying, 86 00:04:51.089 --> 00:04:53.050 you know, who reminds you the most of you on 87 00:04:53.069 --> 00:04:55.769 today's scene? We're going to be talking about the past 88 00:04:56.449 --> 00:04:59.300 on today's show. And also, I want to talk to 89 00:04:59.339 --> 00:05:03.319 Bill about the book that he's got coming out. He's 90 00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:05.620 just finishing it up. He's on the last chapter. There 91 00:05:05.699 --> 00:05:08.540 are some– I got fortunate enough to see a chapter list, 92 00:05:08.860 --> 00:05:12.259 and it's great stuff. A lot of cool stories that 93 00:05:12.290 --> 00:05:14.230 are going to be told in that book. The number, 94 00:05:14.250 --> 00:05:18.670 if you want to give us a call, is 646-721-9828. 95 00:05:18.829 --> 00:05:24.509 That's 646-721-9828. And you can also email us during the 96 00:05:24.569 --> 00:05:32.180 show right now at pwtorchlivecast at gmail.com. That's pwtorchlivecast at gmail.com. 97 00:05:32.199 --> 00:05:34.910 We've got a few questions already. in the queue, and 98 00:05:35.449 --> 00:05:37.029 we have one person on hold who wants to ask 99 00:05:37.069 --> 00:05:39.529 a question, so you can add your name to that list. 100 00:05:39.949 --> 00:05:41.560 We also have the chat room open, so feel free 101 00:05:41.569 --> 00:05:43.699 to chat away in the chat room, and we'll be 102 00:05:43.779 --> 00:05:48.540 live here for the next 58 minutes. By way of introduction, Bill, 103 00:05:48.819 --> 00:05:50.860 you've got quite the story in terms of how you 104 00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:55.149 got started in professional wrestling, and it's covered quickly in 105 00:05:55.170 --> 00:06:00.629 the Talk a little bit about how the path was 106 00:06:00.709 --> 00:06:03.149 paved for you to work your way from where you 107 00:06:03.170 --> 00:06:06.269 were born in Scotland to making your way to the 108 00:06:06.310 --> 00:06:06.949 Memphis Territory. 109 00:06:08.230 --> 00:06:09.730 All right, but before I do that, let me ask 110 00:06:09.750 --> 00:06:11.310 you a question. I'm away out in the middle of 111 00:06:11.329 --> 00:06:13.949 the country here in Arkansas, so if this thing dies 112 00:06:13.970 --> 00:06:16.009 on me because you know who cell phones are, do 113 00:06:16.050 --> 00:06:16.990 I just call you back? 114 00:06:17.569 --> 00:06:19.360 Yep, you just call the exact same number back, and 115 00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:20.379 you'll chime right back in. 116 00:06:21.079 --> 00:06:23.839 Because sometimes you'll be chatting away, and it'll just go beep, 117 00:06:23.899 --> 00:06:25.120 and you're off the air. You know what I mean? 118 00:06:25.160 --> 00:06:26.060 So, yeah. 119 00:06:26.339 --> 00:06:29.339 To answer your question, how did I get started or 120 00:06:29.399 --> 00:06:31.579 paved the way to America? Well, real quick, because I 121 00:06:31.579 --> 00:06:33.079 don't want to tell you what the book's all about. 122 00:06:33.810 --> 00:06:35.730 But when I was a young kid growing up in Scotland, 123 00:06:35.769 --> 00:06:38.250 my uncle had a judo school. And I went and 124 00:06:38.290 --> 00:06:40.750 did judo. Before Bruce Lee came along, there was no 125 00:06:40.790 --> 00:06:43.250 kung fu. There was no, you know, the way it 126 00:06:43.329 --> 00:06:45.160 is today. It was judo, and that was about it. 127 00:06:45.269 --> 00:06:47.920 Or jujitsu. And then there was boxing, and then there 128 00:06:47.939 --> 00:06:50.879 was wrestling. That was about all there was. So I 129 00:06:50.920 --> 00:06:53.600 went there, and there was two guys coming to work 130 00:06:53.759 --> 00:06:56.529 at it. I've seen them on television. They used to 131 00:06:56.550 --> 00:06:59.149 have wrestled on in Britain from 2 o'clock in the 132 00:06:59.230 --> 00:07:02.110 afternoon to 6 o'clock at night. The Billy Robertsons and 133 00:07:02.149 --> 00:07:04.470 the Tony Charles and that type of wrestling was all 134 00:07:04.509 --> 00:07:07.620 wrestling wrestling. And I saw the two dudes that were 135 00:07:07.639 --> 00:07:10.639 working at it. They do much the same as we do, 136 00:07:10.680 --> 00:07:12.060 so I went and talked to him. I said, hey, man, 137 00:07:12.120 --> 00:07:13.600 I'd like to be a wrestler when I grow up. 138 00:07:13.699 --> 00:07:16.740 One of them said, well, you better start growing. But anyway... 139 00:07:17.110 --> 00:07:19.610 So I said, well, hang on, here we go. So 140 00:07:19.850 --> 00:07:22.509 I got interested

then, and I watched them and watched them. 141 00:07:23.250 --> 00:07:26.990 So then when we moved from Australia, from Scotland to Australia, 142 00:07:27.470 --> 00:07:30.120 I just happened to move into a place next door 143 00:07:30.139 --> 00:07:33.939 to this guy who had an unarmed combat type school 144 00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:36.439 in his backyard. And I walked in there, and I said, well, 145 00:07:36.459 --> 00:07:38.399 I'm going to take this up, because I like to 146 00:07:38.459 --> 00:07:41.120 fight a little bit and do things. So I walked 147 00:07:41.199 --> 00:07:42.899 in there, and he has a big poster on the wall. 148 00:07:42.920 --> 00:07:45.670 He said, Clive Coram. I said, wow, is that you? 149 00:07:46.250 --> 00:07:47.930 He said, yeah. I said, well, I'd like to be 150 00:07:47.970 --> 00:07:50.970 a professional wrestler. He said, you ain't big enough. I said, well, 151 00:07:51.370 --> 00:07:53.709 that's what they said to David, but he whooped the lion. 152 00:07:54.509 --> 00:07:58.550 So anyway, after he said, I'll teach you if you 153 00:07:58.589 --> 00:08:01.709 want to stay after the class. He said, I'll teach you. 154 00:08:02.449 --> 00:08:04.040 I said, okay. So while the rest of the guys 155 00:08:04.079 --> 00:08:06.319 would leave and I would stay, he taught me the 156 00:08:06.399 --> 00:08:12.360 fundamentals of professional wrestling. So then, now once you're kind 157 00:08:12.399 --> 00:08:14.180 of learning, you've got to figure out a place to go. 158 00:08:14.860 --> 00:08:16.850 So he says to me, I have a friend of 159 00:08:16.889 --> 00:08:19.189 mine named Paul Fuel who has a son that's about 160 00:08:19.209 --> 00:08:21.910 your size, and he never has an opponent, and he 161 00:08:21.949 --> 00:08:25.850 works well. He has an opponent now. So his dad 162 00:08:25.930 --> 00:08:29.629 used to run in the summertime. He would go to 163 00:08:29.670 --> 00:08:33.500 the beer gardens of the bar, public bar in Australia, 164 00:08:33.820 --> 00:08:35.759 and he would set the ring up, and people would 165 00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:38.240 come and watch, and we'd wrestle. And I guess I 166 00:08:38.299 --> 00:08:41.100 wrestled him for the first three years of my career 167 00:08:41.259 --> 00:08:44.000 because everybody else was bigger. But this By the time 168 00:08:44.039 --> 00:08:45.899 I was lifting weights, trying to put weight on and 169 00:08:45.940 --> 00:08:48.159 do all the things you've got to do from 160 170 00:08:48.159 --> 00:08:53.309 pounds to get up to 222 pounds eventually. So when 171 00:08:53.370 --> 00:08:57.090 Jim Barnett came, he needed people to put the boys 172 00:08:57.190 --> 00:08:59.289 over on television, so he got in touch with Ken 173 00:08:59.309 --> 00:09:02.070 Fury because we had a whole parcel of guys wrestling 174 00:09:02.090 --> 00:09:05.250 with his time. And we used to go up to 175 00:09:05.269 --> 00:09:09.389 Melbourne TV and put Mark Loon over, Ken Curtis, Cole Murphy, Bernard, 176 00:09:09.730 --> 00:09:14.659 Curtis E.O.K., all them names, Ray Stevens, Pat Patterson. So 177 00:09:15.220 --> 00:09:16.940 there was a gentleman by the name of Hal Morgan. 178 00:09:16.980 --> 00:09:19.019 He used to run the league clubs in Sydney. So 179 00:09:19.159 --> 00:09:21.059 he got in touch with me and said, would you 180 00:09:21.100 --> 00:09:23.200 like to come up here and wrestle? I said, yeah. 181 00:09:23.279 --> 00:09:26.139 He said, you can still work for Barnett. He'd fly 182 00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:28.500 you all over. He said, but we run the league 183 00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:31.519 clubs every night, seven nights a week. And you could 184 00:09:31.559 --> 00:09:33.879 do this in Sydney, just in Sydney. You didn't have 185 00:09:33.899 --> 00:09:36.379 to leave. You could do the first match in one club, 186 00:09:36.860 --> 00:09:39.360 drive in your car 12 miles, do the second match 187 00:09:39.419 --> 00:09:41.870 in another one, and drive over and do the main event. 188 00:09:42.779 --> 00:09:45.600 in the third club, and you could do that as 189 00:09:45.679 --> 00:09:47.539 often as you wanted to do it. You got paid 190 00:09:47.559 --> 00:09:50.070 about 15 bucks a shot, I think. So we was 191 00:09:50.110 --> 00:09:53.409 doing pretty good, and Barnett was using us on TV 192 00:09:53.470 --> 00:09:55.850 and taking us to all over the place. and then 193 00:09:55.870 --> 00:10:00.169 when Bobby Shane came 10 years later he said me 194 00:10:00.220 --> 00:10:03.019 and George Barnes had already teamed up in Australia and 195 00:10:03.059 --> 00:10:06.179 he said you guys would get over in Tennessee and 196 00:10:06.200 --> 00:10:07.940 we said well we've had a lot of people tell 197 00:10:07.960 --> 00:10:09.460 us we could get over we could do this and 198 00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:12.019 this but nobody's ever done nothing he said well I'll 199 00:10:12.059 --> 00:10:14.179 do it do it right now what time is it 200 00:10:14.200 --> 00:10:15.980 so he got the time difference of what it is 201 00:10:16.039 --> 00:10:18.919 in America to Australia he called Jerry Jarrett And he 202 00:10:18.940 --> 00:10:23.519 started the ball rolling that day. So it took a 203 00:10:23.559 --> 00:10:26.490 year to get us there. So a year later, Barnes 204 00:10:26.549 --> 00:10:28.909 and I showed up in Memphis, Tennessee, and here we are. 205 00:10:28.950 --> 00:10:30.250 The rest is history, as you say. 206 00:10:31.169 --> 00:10:34.230 Was there any hesitation on the initial move to Australia 207 00:10:34.370 --> 00:10:37.049 and then from there to go to Memphis? Or were 208 00:10:37.090 --> 00:10:41.200 you just up for an adventure and didn't really feel 209 00:10:41.240 --> 00:10:42.539 tied down to your hometown? 210 00:10:43.940 --> 00:10:47.279 No, I had a wife and two kids, so it 211 00:10:47.340 --> 00:10:50.980 was a pretty big step to take. But I had 212 00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:53.059 a lot of faith

in George Barnes and Bill Dundee. 213 00:10:53.120 --> 00:10:56.399 I thought, we do this business better than most, and 214 00:10:56.470 --> 00:10:59.970 as good as the ones that do it. The champions, 215 00:11:00.049 --> 00:11:03.250 we saw Mark Loon and Ken Curtis and all them. 216 00:11:03.730 --> 00:11:05.809 And we could wrestle, wrestle, think, so it made a 217 00:11:05.850 --> 00:11:07.570 little difference. So I thought, if we get the chance 218 00:11:07.629 --> 00:11:10.220 at this, we can do this. We got over in 219 00:11:10.259 --> 00:11:12.759 four weeks in Memphis. The first show I was on 220 00:11:12.820 --> 00:11:16.080 in Memphis, it was $ 4, 000. The third one we was on, 221 00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:17.250 it was sold out. 222 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:18.279 Oh, wow. 223 00:11:18.679 --> 00:11:21.950 That's great. That's very encouraging. When you were in Australia. 224 00:11:21.990 --> 00:11:23.350 We were the main event on that one. 225 00:11:25.470 --> 00:11:28.789 Did you know that you can enjoy commercial-free versions of 226 00:11:28.990 --> 00:11:31.889 all of your favorite Wade Keller podcasts and PWTorch Daily Casts? 227 00:11:33.059 --> 00:11:37.730 Just go to patreon.com, search PWTorch, and subscribe to a 228 00:11:37.750 --> 00:11:40.210 VIP membership tier. You get a seven-day free trial, by 229 00:11:40.230 --> 00:11:41.889 the way, to kick the tires a bit and see 230 00:11:41.929 --> 00:11:44.669 if you like the service. And then sync it with Spotify, 231 00:11:44.769 --> 00:11:47.600 and you can listen to commercial-free versions of our free shows, 232 00:11:47.620 --> 00:11:50.100 like the Wade Keller Post Shows, the Wade Keller Podcast Flagship, 233 00:11:50.460 --> 00:11:53.490 our flashbacks, and also the PWTorch DataCast lineup online. Again, 234 00:11:53.730 --> 00:11:57.470 all commercial-free, a nice streamlined listening experience. But with third-tier membership, 235 00:11:57.509 --> 00:12:00.889 you can also unlock all the VIP podcasts, including Everything 236 00:12:00.909 --> 00:12:02.629 with Rich and Wade, The Fix with Todd Martin that 237 00:12:02.649 --> 00:12:04.929 I host with Todd every week, the Wade Keller News 238 00:12:04.970 --> 00:12:10.190 Bulletin's post-pay-per-view roundtables, and an array of other VIP-exclusive podcasts 239 00:12:10.210 --> 00:12:13.230 with different hosts and different themes. Check out the lineup. 240 00:12:13.610 --> 00:12:18.039 Go to Patreon and search PWTorch and subscribe and sync 241 00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:20.820 it up with Spotify or stay within the Patreon ecosystem. 242 00:12:21.269 --> 00:12:24.590 Either way works, go to Patreon and start your seven-day 243 00:12:24.669 --> 00:12:29.629 free trial. When you were in Australia, who were some 244 00:12:29.649 --> 00:12:33.080 of the bigger names that you did work against in matches? 245 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:35.679 Did you work against Pat Patterson or Ray Stephens at 246 00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:36.019 that

time? 247 00:12:36.879 --> 00:12:40.139 Yeah, they came over. Barnett brought them over, and Pat Patterson, 248 00:12:40.179 --> 00:12:46.320 and Mark Lewin, and Ken Curtis, Scott Murphy, Brooke Bernard. 249 00:12:46.940 --> 00:12:48.399 Who do you think you learned the most from? Who 250 00:12:48.419 --> 00:12:52.610 did you consider, you know, the... the opponent who you 251 00:12:52.629 --> 00:12:54.210 learned the most from working against? 252 00:12:55.149 --> 00:12:58.889 I mean, they were all great workers back in the day. 253 00:12:58.909 --> 00:13:01.009 So you go in the ring, and remember, we were 254 00:13:01.049 --> 00:13:04.649 doing jobs in Australia. We weren't exactly the champions. We learned. 255 00:13:04.730 --> 00:13:08.070 And if the people you worked with liked you, they 256 00:13:08.090 --> 00:13:10.049 would work with you. So, I mean, they would teach 257 00:13:10.090 --> 00:13:12.049 you things and tell you, hey, kid, you did this wrong. 258 00:13:12.570 --> 00:13:14.669 And that's what I think has happened today. There's nobody 259 00:13:14.730 --> 00:13:17.500 teaching nothing. It's like I keep saying that. The puppeteer 260 00:13:17.519 --> 00:13:19.580 has to make the puppet dance, and if the puppeteer 261 00:13:19.620 --> 00:13:21.480 doesn't know what he's doing, neither does the puppet. 262 00:13:22.139 --> 00:13:24.100 We have seen that as a problem in recent years. 263 00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:25.879 That's a good way to put it. 264 00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:28.899 Yeah, and that's the only way to put it, and 265 00:13:29.019 --> 00:13:31.360 all the guys today can say, well, I do this, 266 00:13:31.379 --> 00:13:33.960 and I don't matter. If you've got no psychology, this 267 00:13:34.019 --> 00:13:37.110 business don't work. But get back to your question. I mean, 268 00:13:37.399 --> 00:13:41.250 Mark Loon was great. Ray Stevens was great. Pat Patterson 269 00:13:41.269 --> 00:13:42.909 was great. And like I said, back in the day, 270 00:13:42.990 --> 00:13:44.649 if they liked you, they would tell you what you 271 00:13:44.669 --> 00:13:46.740 was doing wrong. Hey, kid, you need to do this 272 00:13:46.820 --> 00:13:48.860 or don't do this or do that. And it was 273 00:13:48.919 --> 00:13:51.519 a whole different thing than today. I mean, people cared 274 00:13:51.559 --> 00:13:53.960 about one another, I think, more back then as far as... 275 00:13:54.120 --> 00:13:55.879 I know how you're just doing jobs. You're not going 276 00:13:55.899 --> 00:13:58.740 to take nobody's jobs. You know, they're not scared of you. 277 00:13:59.659 --> 00:14:02.519 Yeah, good point. If you're just joining us, our special 278 00:14:02.539 --> 00:14:05.870 guest here on Interview Friday on the PWTorch Livecast is 279 00:14:05.990 --> 00:14:11.539 superstar Bill Dundee, a Memphis wrestling legend. Drew some very 280 00:14:11.580 --> 00:14:14.759 big gates, often against Jerry Lawler. He is a big 281 00:14:14.820 --> 00:14:17.740 part

of the new and excellent Memphis Heat documentary that 282 00:14:17.759 --> 00:14:19.940 just came out to the public on October 1st. It 283 00:14:19.980 --> 00:14:23.360 was on limited release in theaters earlier this year. A 284 00:14:23.740 --> 00:14:26.740 really good documentary with some fantastic extras built in. If 285 00:14:26.799 --> 00:14:30.379 you are a newer fan and not familiar with Memphis wrestling, 286 00:14:31.509 --> 00:14:33.429 and you've heard about it, I'm sure you've heard about it, 287 00:14:33.450 --> 00:14:34.710 but you might not have had a chance to see 288 00:14:34.769 --> 00:14:36.549 much of it, maybe a YouTube clip here and there. 289 00:14:37.090 --> 00:14:41.370 This is a very nice, high-quality DVD, absolutely worth your purchase. 290 00:14:41.690 --> 00:14:45.750 You go to memphis-heat.com to order it, and you'll get 291 00:14:45.769 --> 00:14:50.629 a glimpse at a good historical perspective and a window 292 00:14:50.750 --> 00:14:53.059 into a very different wrestling world that Bill Dundee was 293 00:14:53.179 --> 00:14:55.899 as big a part of as anybody right there with 294 00:14:56.159 --> 00:14:59.360 Jerry Lawler. I'm trying to think. Your stay in Memphis 295 00:14:59.779 --> 00:15:05.070 started in 1974 and ended– When did you finally leave, 296 00:15:05.330 --> 00:15:07.009 kind of finally and officially Memphis? 297 00:15:07.669 --> 00:15:10.379 Well, it actually started then, 74, again, 75. When did 298 00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:14.929 we officially leave? When it went away, when Vince killed it. 299 00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:18.070 Not just Vince, it was cable television. But when it 300 00:15:18.110 --> 00:15:20.549 got to when everybody thought everybody was at work and 301 00:15:20.590 --> 00:15:23.549 everybody was, anybody was just wanted to get in it, 302 00:15:23.610 --> 00:15:26.370 got in it, it was it. Then, I mean, you know, 303 00:15:26.590 --> 00:15:29.129 we destroyed our own business, but it always happens that way. 304 00:15:30.029 --> 00:15:32.620 Do you think along those lines that there would have 305 00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:36.460 been any possibility in society as it's changed in the 306 00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:39.419 last 25 years during, you know, we kind of call 307 00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:43.580 it the WrestleMania years? Cable was going national no matter what. pay-per-view, 308 00:15:43.799 --> 00:15:46.399 available nationally, was going to happen, whether it was Vince 309 00:15:46.419 --> 00:15:48.740 McMahon or Ole Anderson or Bill Watts or Fritz Von Erich. 310 00:15:48.860 --> 00:15:52.350 It doesn't matter. Even the media changed, and there's skepticism 311 00:15:52.379 --> 00:15:54.169 towards things changing. Do you think there's a way that 312 00:15:54.210 --> 00:15:56.809 Kate Fabe could have been protected, or was it pretty 313 00:15:56.870 --> 00:16:00.370 inevitable that one way or the other, what fans had 314 00:16:00.409 --> 00:16:03.350 suspected for decades was going to become much more common 315 00:16:03.389 --> 00:16:05.909 knowledge and more detailed, the nature of the wrestling industry? 316 00:16:06.370 --> 00:16:08.320 No, it could have been protected. Vince did it for 317 00:16:08.340 --> 00:16:10.639 a different reason. He's smart in the world, but he 318 00:16:10.659 --> 00:16:13.169 didn't want to pay all them commissions. It was They're 319 00:16:13.190 --> 00:16:14.950 the things that should be abolished. How can you have 320 00:16:14.990 --> 00:16:17.309 a commission on a bent business? How can you have 321 00:16:17.350 --> 00:16:19.759 somebody come into a dressing room and say, you're going 322 00:16:19.779 --> 00:16:21.279 to do this or pee in the cup or do 323 00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:23.620 this or do that, and the business is already bent? 324 00:16:24.519 --> 00:16:26.340 We all know what's going on before we get to 325 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:29.440 the ring. So how can you have a commission to 326 00:16:29.480 --> 00:16:31.600 rule over that? So I can see what he did, 327 00:16:31.639 --> 00:16:33.269 but it cost him a lot of money to keep, 328 00:16:33.289 --> 00:16:35.350 you know, he had to pay all them commissions. All 329 00:16:35.370 --> 00:16:37.529 the boys had to buy licenses. What are you licensed for? 330 00:16:37.929 --> 00:16:39.330 It's showbiz, for Christ's sake. 331 00:16:40.190 --> 00:16:43.080 Yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, where the commissions 332 00:16:43.100 --> 00:16:46.639 have been good is there's probably some shady promoters cutting 333 00:16:46.659 --> 00:16:48.940 corners out there who might have had, you know, dirty rings, 334 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:53.039 spreading diseases. 335 00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:57.230 Shady promoters, brother, they are there. Because they cleaned the ring, 336 00:16:57.259 --> 00:16:58.759 that didn't mean the word shady. 337 00:16:59.299 --> 00:17:01.289 Yeah, no, no, but what I'm saying is the commissions 338 00:17:01.649 --> 00:17:03.730 in some instances did some good as far as that 339 00:17:03.750 --> 00:17:06.430 goes in terms of, you know, trying to make sure 340 00:17:06.450 --> 00:17:07.690 that there was a good level of safety. 341 00:17:08.630 --> 00:17:11.789 They must have never got to Tennessee with that part. 342 00:17:12.309 --> 00:17:14.609 And Kentucky and all the things they're still doing. I 343 00:17:14.650 --> 00:17:17.470 just don't like them because if it was a shoot business, 344 00:17:17.529 --> 00:17:20.410 that would be one thing. But it isn't. Everybody knows, 345 00:17:20.430 --> 00:17:23.789 including the referee, what's happening before we go there. Now, 346 00:17:23.809 --> 00:17:26.710 the good old things, back in the good old days, 347 00:17:26.890 --> 00:17:28.930 there was room for doubt. But when Vince went on 348 00:17:28.970 --> 00:17:31.950 TV and said, this is a show, and Hogan, hey, brother, 349 00:17:31.970 --> 00:17:34.920 this is a show, and everybody, and all the steroid 350

00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:37.599 things everybody lied about and all the things that they did, 351 00:17:37.660 --> 00:17:40.609 I mean, it was just, What the hell? I don't know. 352 00:17:40.670 --> 00:17:43.930 Bill, was there any, within the Memphis territory, because it 353 00:17:43.950 --> 00:17:47.069 was around the 1970s when there was still a feeling 354 00:17:47.089 --> 00:17:50.430 that the champion in the territory should be someone who 355 00:17:50.519 --> 00:17:54.240 can shoot, or somebody who was a hooker, somebody who 356 00:17:54.779 --> 00:17:57.539 could hold their own in a legit fight. Jerry Lawler, 357 00:17:57.819 --> 00:18:01.109 he was an artist with great charisma, and one of 358 00:18:01.140 --> 00:18:03.529 my favorite performers of all time in every way. I mean, 359 00:18:03.549 --> 00:18:07.819 I love his matches. and his promos and everything. But 360 00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:11.920 he didn't have a reputation as a guy who was 361 00:18:11.940 --> 00:18:14.259 going to hold his own against Jack Briscoe in the 362 00:18:14.299 --> 00:18:16.759 ring or Vern Gagne when it came down to it. 363 00:18:16.900 --> 00:18:19.329 Was there any kind of doubt that maybe Jerry was 364 00:18:19.349 --> 00:18:21.029 the right guy to go with by the time you 365 00:18:21.049 --> 00:18:22.569 got to Memphis? Did you have any sense of that? 366 00:18:22.609 --> 00:18:25.329 Or was he so entrenched as a drawing card, people 367 00:18:25.369 --> 00:18:27.769 kind of looked past the fact that he didn't have 368 00:18:27.789 --> 00:18:28.670 that amateur background? 369 00:18:29.980 --> 00:18:32.000 Well, I understand that, but only the boys in the 370 00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:35.019 business knew that or worried about that. It was a work, 371 00:18:35.079 --> 00:18:36.619 and he was one of the best at it. You 372 00:18:36.660 --> 00:18:38.720 said the word to start with. He was an artist. 373 00:18:39.059 --> 00:18:41.259 He could talk better than most. He could make it 374 00:18:41.299 --> 00:18:45.299 look like he could wrestle. So what does it matter? 375 00:18:45.380 --> 00:18:49.359 It's a bent business. If Lala's going over Billy Robinson, 376 00:18:49.400 --> 00:18:52.740 that's exactly what you're doing. Robinson doesn't do nothing to 377 00:18:52.779 --> 00:18:56.720 stop that. He's wanting paid that night. So, I mean, no, 378 00:18:56.769 --> 00:18:57.730 it had nothing to do with it. 379 00:18:58.109 --> 00:18:58.529 It's all work. 380 00:18:59.089 --> 00:19:01.509 Jerry was, though, one of the first people who didn't 381 00:19:01.609 --> 00:19:04.569 have that, who was so successful, and I think, as 382 00:19:04.609 --> 00:19:07.410 you just illustrated, so widely accepted because of what he 383 00:19:07.450 --> 00:19:11.500 was good at. I don't know the history enough to 384 00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:13.339 know if he was the absolute first guy who didn't 385 00:19:13.380 --> 00:19:15.940 have the kind of amateur credentials that a lot

of 386 00:19:16.019 --> 00:19:18.809 people in the business had. the people who preceded you, 387 00:19:18.829 --> 00:19:21.410 the previous generation, might have scoffed at Jerry for being 388 00:19:21.450 --> 00:19:23.809 a champion who, in a real fight, wouldn't have done 389 00:19:23.849 --> 00:19:25.670 as well as some of the other champions. And it 390 00:19:25.710 --> 00:19:27.690 doesn't matter to me. I totally agree with you. But 391 00:19:27.710 --> 00:19:29.119 I was wondering if that was ever an issue in 392 00:19:29.140 --> 00:19:29.859 Memphis that you knew of. 393 00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:32.680 It was never an issue anywhere. We went up to 394 00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:35.599 the AWA with all them bad boys up there, and 395 00:19:35.640 --> 00:19:38.519 we were the AWA champions and all the things. This 396 00:19:38.559 --> 00:19:41.009 was a work. I mean, when Luthez used to come 397 00:19:41.029 --> 00:19:44.480 to Memphis, Yeah, he could probably beat everybody at Dresden. No, 398 00:19:44.519 --> 00:19:47.849 not probably. Could have done. But he didn't. By that time, 399 00:19:47.890 --> 00:19:51.000 he led the work. And the ones that really... started, well, 400 00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:51.759 I'm a tough guy. 401 00:19:51.819 --> 00:19:52.480 I can't do this. 402 00:19:52.579 --> 00:19:54.859 I can't do that. Well, we can't pay you. Don't 403 00:19:54.900 --> 00:19:57.400 come to our territory. Well, they figured that. They're not 404 00:19:57.420 --> 00:19:59.059 going to use me if I don't work with a 405 00:19:59.099 --> 00:20:01.579 champion in there. So that had nothing to do with it. 406 00:20:02.019 --> 00:20:04.599 And as far as Lawler convincing you he can fight, 407 00:20:05.019 --> 00:20:07.410 he certainly can. He can talk his way in on TV, 408 00:20:07.470 --> 00:20:09.529 and that's how he got over in Memphis and stayed 409 00:20:09.569 --> 00:20:12.960 over there. 25 years. And that's all it's about. 410 00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:17.500 No, you're right. It certainly was. 411 00:20:17.619 --> 00:20:20.269 John Wayne wasn't... I mean, he was an actor, for 412 00:20:20.309 --> 00:20:23.140 God's sake, in Hollywood, but when he said, I ain't 413 00:20:23.180 --> 00:20:27.349 gonna hit ya, the hell I ain't, and knocked ya out, wow, 414 00:20:27.410 --> 00:20:31.869 toughest guy on the screen. That was a gimmick. No, you're... 415 00:20:32.690 --> 00:20:34.789 Hogan had a champion. He can't beat nobody. 416 00:20:35.750 --> 00:20:37.869 I know, yeah. Well, but there were people who didn't 417 00:20:37.910 --> 00:20:40.410 like that. You know, there were people who thought... Hogan 418 00:20:40.430 --> 00:20:42.349 should have been, you know, that you don't give the 419 00:20:42.369 --> 00:20:44.230 belt to somebody. I think Verne had an issue, you know, 420 00:20:44.289 --> 00:20:45.769 even with that. I mean, he had a variety of reasons. 421 00:20:45.809 --> 00:20:48.269 Well, because Verne was an amateur, tough guy, and so, 422 00:20:48.309 --> 00:20:51.059 and his son, he could all wrestle. I understand that part. 423 00:20:51.450 --> 00:20:53.900 But it has nothing to do with drawing money. Jerry 424 00:20:53.960 --> 00:20:58.119 Lawler would outdraw Greg Gagne 10 to 1. 425 00:20:58.119 --> 00:21:00.319 I know. Well, absolutely, that's true. 426 00:21:02.680 --> 00:21:06.140 Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts? Well, 427 00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:09.099 come join me, Alan Forel, over in the Pro Wrestling 428 00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:12.630 Paradise at Peterborough Torch VIP as we bask on the 429 00:21:12.789 --> 00:21:15.369 bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the 430 00:21:15.470 --> 00:21:18.470 great matches and shows from around the world, be it 431 00:21:18.589 --> 00:21:22.930 the US, Japan, Europe, or Mexico. There's always a place 432 00:21:22.950 --> 00:21:25.680 for wrestling's past in the Paradise too, and we've done 433 00:21:25.799 --> 00:21:28.759 fun historical shows such as the We Love Liger series, 434 00:21:29.059 --> 00:21:32.799 celebrating the glorious career of Jushin Thunder Liger. and our 435 00:21:32.920 --> 00:21:35.119 I Was There When shows, where our guests will join 436 00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:37.559 me to talk about a classic bout that they were 437 00:21:37.579 --> 00:21:40.880 in attendance for. We love variety, and you can expect 438 00:21:40.980 --> 00:21:44.720 lots of it at the Pro Wrestling Paradise. Detailed PWTorch 439 00:21:44.759 --> 00:21:48.309 VIP subscription information and a list of all the VIP 440 00:21:48.349 --> 00:21:54.509 benefits is available at pwtorchvipinfo.com. And yes, all VIP podcasts 441 00:21:54.549 --> 00:21:59.569 are compatible with popular podcast apps on iPhone and Android devices, 442 00:21:59.589 --> 00:22:01.789 or you can stream them directly from our ad-free podcast 443 00:22:02.039 --> 00:22:04.779 VIP mobile site. See you in the paradise. 444 00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:10.380 Hey, Bill, why don't we take a couple calls and 445 00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:12.299 a couple email questions, and I've certainly got other things 446 00:22:12.339 --> 00:22:13.839 I want to talk to you about, but why don't 447 00:22:13.859 --> 00:22:15.539 we go to our first call in a second here 448 00:22:15.579 --> 00:22:16.880 if anybody else wants to get in line on the 449 00:22:16.900 --> 00:22:24.279 phone banks. The number is 646-721-9828. 646-721-9828. I'm Wade Keller, 450 00:22:24.319 --> 00:22:27.000 and I'm pleased to be joined by superstar Bill Dundee 451 00:22:27.180 --> 00:22:30.279 on Interview Friday here at the PWTorch Livecast. Let's go 452 00:22:30.299 --> 00:22:33.220 to our first call, area code 203. Thanks for holding. 453 00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:34.420 Please state your name and where you're from. 454 00:22:35.079 --> 00:22:36.559 Hi, it's Mark out of Connecticut. 455 00:22:36.740 --> 00:22:37.500 Hey, Mark, how you doing? 456 00:22:38.539 --> 00:22:39.099 How you doing?

457 00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:40.359 Good. What have you got for me, Bill? 458 00:22:40.380 --> 00:22:42.339 I want to say to Bill Dundee, I'm definitely a 459 00:22:42.380 --> 00:22:46.299 big fan. I've seen some of your work with Jerry Lawler, 460 00:22:46.380 --> 00:22:49.319 and you guys have had one hell of a feud 461 00:22:49.420 --> 00:22:53.400 forever and definitely a great chemistry and put on some 462 00:22:53.460 --> 00:22:55.869 very good matches. So I want to thank you and 463 00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:57.089 congratulate you on that. 464 00:22:58.819 --> 00:23:00.940 But I have a question. I read on. 465 00:23:00.900 --> 00:23:06.519 Another website that there is some legitimate heat between yourself 466 00:23:07.400 --> 00:23:11.880 and superstar Billy Graham, who apparently says that he was 467 00:23:11.940 --> 00:23:17.140 the original superstar and that you took the name three 468 00:23:17.220 --> 00:23:20.740 years later and that you never turned heads in airports 469 00:23:21.500 --> 00:23:22.099 like he did. 470 00:23:23.079 --> 00:23:24.619 So I'm not sure. 471 00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:27.299 Is there any legitimate heat between you two? 472 00:23:28.170 --> 00:23:30.670 I love Billy. He came into Memphis, and he was 473 00:23:30.710 --> 00:23:32.589 a bodybuilder. He was one of the first guys that 474 00:23:32.630 --> 00:23:34.670 brought the steroids into this business. I mean, he was 475 00:23:34.730 --> 00:23:37.470 a big steroid freak way back then. Not them that 476 00:23:37.490 --> 00:23:40.190 killed him, but I love Billy. He came in here 477 00:23:40.250 --> 00:23:42.650 and teamed him up with me. Now, this is in 478 00:23:42.670 --> 00:23:45.470 the South here, and the people were yelling to Billy, 479 00:23:45.750 --> 00:23:49.029 Tag Dundee, for God's sake. The way he worked was 480 00:23:49.069 --> 00:23:52.130 nothing like what we did here. So, yeah, and he's right. 481 00:23:52.390 --> 00:23:56.710 I didn't take the name Big Bad John in 1976. 482 00:23:56.710 --> 00:23:58.529 He was always a heel around here, and we made 483 00:23:58.569 --> 00:24:02.109 him the Bicentennial Baby. Went from a black leather coat 484 00:24:02.130 --> 00:24:03.950 and a steel helmet and all the things that he 485 00:24:04.019 --> 00:24:06.920 wore to Jerry Jarrett, dressed him up like Uncle Sam. 486 00:24:06.940 --> 00:24:09.119 He had one of them red, white, and blue outfits on, 487 00:24:09.440 --> 00:24:13.759 big top hat. John was already 6'2, 4, maybe. So 488 00:24:14.299 --> 00:24:16.869 he says, if I'm going to be the Bicentennial Baby 489 00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:19.390 and team me up with Bill Dundee, from now on, 490 00:24:19.750 --> 00:24:22.890 everybody call Bill Dundee Superstar, Bill Dundee. And that's how 491 00:24:22.930 --> 00:24:26.210 that was born. I never had no more... I called 492 00:24:26.250 --> 00:24:29.109 myself Mr. Excitement when I first come here. And I 493 00:24:29.130 --> 00:24:31.930 stole that from Pat

Patterson because he used that in Australia. 494 00:24:32.390 --> 00:24:36.450 So I had no qualms about being superstar Bill Dundee. 495 00:24:36.910 --> 00:24:40.319 And Billy Graham, I don't even know when he started 496 00:24:40.450 --> 00:24:42.799 using it, but Dusty Rhodes was the American dream, and 497 00:24:42.819 --> 00:24:46.019 they both talked alike, and they both had the same gimmick. Superstar, 498 00:24:46.059 --> 00:24:48.359 the dream, I can understand that. And he may be right. 499 00:24:48.420 --> 00:24:50.440 He may have had it three years before me, but 500 00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:52.579 he couldn't work as good as me. I can guarantee 501 00:24:52.599 --> 00:24:55.519 you that. And he never sold that any building 52 502 00:24:55.519 --> 00:24:57.759 weeks in a year like Bill Dundee and Jerry Lawler did. 503 00:24:58.119 --> 00:25:00.240 So I like the old Billy. He's all right. But 504 00:25:00.940 --> 00:25:03.220 big old bodybuilder got in our business, and this was 505 00:25:03.460 --> 00:25:05.700 the start of the demise of our business. That's when 506 00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:08.140 all the roids and all the things started to get 507 00:25:08.200 --> 00:25:08.480 in here. 508 00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:10.170 Mark, any follow-up for us? 509 00:25:10.819 --> 00:25:13.359 No, I just found it rather entertaining. I didn't know 510 00:25:13.460 --> 00:25:14.900 how much of it was the work and how much 511 00:25:14.920 --> 00:25:17.029 of it was real. He just said that. he had 512 00:25:17.049 --> 00:25:20.130 the original pythons and that your arms pretty much looked 513 00:25:20.170 --> 00:25:23.359 like mosquito bites. So, I mean, I was, like, just 514 00:25:23.400 --> 00:25:26.160 kind of taken aback by it. So I didn't know 515 00:25:26.220 --> 00:25:28.960 what the validity was, if there was some real heat. 516 00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:31.779 But then he started talking. 517 00:25:32.039 --> 00:25:34.529 Mark, were those recent comments or just, you know, maybe 518 00:25:34.549 --> 00:25:34.980 years ago? 519 00:25:36.029 --> 00:25:38.089 No, they were actually pretty recent. I'm trying to remember 520 00:25:38.109 --> 00:25:39.869 the website that I got them off of. But I 521 00:25:39.890 --> 00:25:42.549 kind of found it, you know, like, wow, is there 522 00:25:42.589 --> 00:25:47.250 some legitimate heat? Because, you know. You wonder about, you know, obviously, 523 00:25:47.809 --> 00:25:51.710 what was his name? Like, Buddy Landell, you know, called himself. 524 00:25:51.390 --> 00:25:52.210 The Nature Boy. 525 00:25:52.269 --> 00:25:56.109 I mean, did he have Rick Flair's blessing on that? 526 00:25:56.130 --> 00:25:58.970 And did Rick Flair have the blessing from Buddy Rogers, 527 00:25:59.009 --> 00:25:59.309 you know? 528 00:25:59.809 --> 00:26:00.750 Right, yeah. Right. 529 00:26:00.849 --> 00:26:03.109 And then there was Nature Boy and Roger Kirby. There's 530 00:26:03.130 --> 00:26:05.990 been a lot of Nature Boys. And Superstar Graham and 531 00:26:06.029 --> 00:26:08.369 Superstar Dundee is the only two I know that actually 532 00:26:08.470 --> 00:26:10.190 used that name, that actually drew any money. 533 00:26:10.210 --> 00:26:10.869 Right. 534 00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:13.740 Billy was from up New York. I mean, he did 535 00:26:13.799 --> 00:26:17.140 all of, like, Vince loved big guys. So, hell, I 536 00:26:17.160 --> 00:26:18.799 don't know, man. There's no heat with me. I mean, 537 00:26:18.859 --> 00:26:22.410 I like Billy. And you're right. My arms compared to 538 00:26:22.450 --> 00:26:25.089 his is like little snakes. But anyway. 539 00:26:26.569 --> 00:26:27.549 All right. 540 00:26:27.589 --> 00:26:30.750 Whatever it's worth, mine was all natural. And everything I 541 00:26:30.769 --> 00:26:31.269 got works. 542 00:26:31.309 --> 00:26:31.869 There you go. 543 00:26:31.890 --> 00:26:36.220 Steroids just deteriorate your body. It all happened to Billy, right? Exactly. 544 00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:38.759 Thanks, Mark, so much. Appreciate it. 545 00:26:38.779 --> 00:26:39.339 Thanks, Bill. 546 00:26:40.059 --> 00:26:40.279 All right. 547 00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:44.109 All right, let's go to our next call here, and 548 00:26:44.269 --> 00:26:47.230 it's area code 202. Thanks for calling. Please state your 549 00:26:47.250 --> 00:26:47.829 name and where you're from. 550 00:26:47.849 --> 00:26:50.869 Hi, this is Anthony from Washington, D.C. 551 00:26:50.910 --> 00:26:52.970 Hey, Anthony, what have you got for Bill Dundee today? 552 00:26:54.230 --> 00:26:57.309 Hey, Bill, man, I'm like a big, big fan. I 553 00:26:57.369 --> 00:27:00.859 used to watch you on a weekly basis, not just 554 00:27:00.900 --> 00:27:03.700 with Memphis, but also the stuff you did down in. 555 00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:04.319 Texas, too. 556 00:27:04.980 --> 00:27:07.740 And I was just wondering, going through your career, I 557 00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:09.799 don't know if you keep up with, like, wrestling for 558 00:27:09.819 --> 00:27:12.000 the day and stuff, Who do you see out there 559 00:27:12.039 --> 00:27:15.759 that you can compare yourself to as far as in-ring 560 00:27:15.799 --> 00:27:17.900 skills and ring psychology? 561 00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:21.210 Bill, Anthony, we talked about at the beginning of the show, 562 00:27:21.250 --> 00:27:23.009 he doesn't actually follow wrestling today, and I knew that 563 00:27:23.049 --> 00:27:25.250 question would come up, and I mentioned that nobody should 564 00:27:25.269 --> 00:27:27.069 call and ask that because he doesn't follow wrestling today. 565 00:27:27.450 --> 00:27:30.029 But if you don't mind, Anthony, Bill, let me augment 566 00:27:30.069 --> 00:27:33.579 the question and just say from the last time you 567 00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:36.599 were following wrestling and around other wrestlers in the business, 568 00:27:38.029 --> 00:27:40.569 was there anybody there who you thought, who you really 569 00:27:40.609 -->

00:27:43.430 were high on and thought, this guy's got charisma and 570 00:27:43.490 --> 00:27:44.910 should definitely get a break? 571 00:27:46.190 --> 00:27:49.329 Yeah, I mean, when Ricky Morton started the Rock and 572 00:27:49.349 --> 00:27:51.490 Roll Express, he was just a young kid and he 573 00:27:51.509 --> 00:27:53.910 had a lot of charisma. Tommy Rich started. He had 574 00:27:53.950 --> 00:27:57.710 his third match with George Barnes and me when he 575 00:27:57.759 --> 00:27:59.839 first came in in 75. There's a lot of guys 576 00:27:59.900 --> 00:28:01.500 around in the good old days, but they all had 577 00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:04.410 psychology because somebody taught it to them. Eddie Marlin taught 578 00:28:04.450 --> 00:28:07.509 it to Tommy Rich in his backyard or in his lounge. 579 00:28:07.549 --> 00:28:09.309 He would say, Tommy, this is why we do this. 580 00:28:09.589 --> 00:28:11.730 This is what we do. A lot of guys like that. 581 00:28:11.769 --> 00:28:15.559 But in today's market, I haven't watched anybody, so I 582 00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:18.559 couldn't really tell you. But there's a lot of third-generation 583 00:28:18.579 --> 00:28:23.160 wrestlers in there, like Cody Rhodes wrestling, Dusty's Boy or whatever. 584 00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:25.279 You have all the other young guys. 585 00:28:25.519 --> 00:28:27.880 Teddy Biasi Jr. and Kurt Heddington. 586 00:28:27.900 --> 00:28:29.900 Teddy Biasi Jr. and all that. They all should have 587 00:28:29.980 --> 00:28:33.309 built-in skills. I mean, This is the thing about professional wrestling. 588 00:28:33.549 --> 00:28:36.730 When we did it, I don't know about today's category. 589 00:28:37.690 --> 00:28:39.990 And it's like a football player. The coach can bring 590 00:28:40.029 --> 00:28:42.099 it out in you. He can't put it into you. 591 00:28:42.390 --> 00:28:44.750 So if it isn't there, I don't give a damn 592 00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:47.440 what they do to you, how many wrestling lessons you have, 593 00:28:47.839 --> 00:28:50.089 what they say to you. If you don't have it, 594 00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:52.559 it ain't coming out in the ring. Most of the 595 00:28:52.599 --> 00:28:55.180 people that was great at this business, it was in 596 00:28:55.240 --> 00:28:57.349 there and somebody told them how to get it out. 597 00:28:57.640 --> 00:28:59.289 So they would say, hey, kid, you're doing this wrong. 598 00:28:59.349 --> 00:29:01.839 So you picked up on that. But if it isn't there, 599 00:29:02.119 --> 00:29:04.240 they can't do nothing with his shame, and it doesn't 600 00:29:04.259 --> 00:29:04.980 matter who you are. 601 00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:09.220 Yeah, yeah. Very good. Anthony, do you have any follow-up 602 00:29:09.259 --> 00:29:11.099 on your question or anything else to add? 603 00:29:12.900 --> 00:29:15.750 Yeah, well, since you're not really a follow-up to Dave's 604 00:29:15.809 --> 00:29:19.750 wrestling stuff, I don't know if y'all talked about this earlier, 605 00:29:20.049 --> 00:29:22.230 but do you plan to one day open up a 606 00:29:22.250 --> 00:29:24.509 school or something or train some guys nowadays? 607 00:29:25.569 --> 00:29:27.869 I had a school for 30 years. I was one 608 00:29:27.910 --> 00:29:29.970 of the first to do a wrestling, like an actual 609 00:29:30.029 --> 00:29:32.529 wrestler to do a wrestling school way back in the 610 00:29:32.569 --> 00:29:35.950 good old days. Yeah, we still do, but see, this 611 00:29:35.990 --> 00:29:39.109 business is monkey see, monkey do. So there's no Memphis 612 00:29:39.190 --> 00:29:42.579 television in the world. no regional TVs for the kids 613 00:29:42.630 --> 00:29:45.180 to watch it. So now they watch Vince and they 614 00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:48.759 watch TNA. So I'm assuming they want to be wrestlers 615 00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:51.839 because they saw somebody on TNA or Vince's show. But 616 00:29:51.900 --> 00:29:54.579 that isn't what we did or what I did. So, 617 00:29:55.240 --> 00:29:58.009 you know, the It's all a different kettle of fish, 618 00:29:58.049 --> 00:30:00.230 so I don't do near as much training as I 619 00:30:00.289 --> 00:30:02.170 used to do because there ain't near as much people 620 00:30:02.210 --> 00:30:05.109 out there wanting to do what I did. They want 621 00:30:05.150 --> 00:30:06.809 to do what the C-Bincy boys do. 622 00:30:07.789 --> 00:30:09.579 All right, Anthony, thanks for the call. Appreciate it. 623 00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:10.940 Thank you. 624 00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:14.660 You bet. All right, let's go to one more call, 625 00:30:14.700 --> 00:30:17.440 and then we'll take some e-mail questions and go to 626 00:30:17.460 --> 00:30:20.980 area code 708. 708, thanks for holding. Please state your 627 00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:23.190 name and where you're from. 708. 628 00:30:23.190 --> 00:30:24.759 708. 629 00:30:24.759 --> 00:30:27.210 Going once. Oh, there you go. Now I can hear you. 630 00:30:27.220 --> 00:30:28.920 All right. 631 00:30:28.940 --> 00:30:30.019 Step away from the phone. 632 00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:32.220 Sure. I was going to ask him a question. Did 633 00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:35.809 he ever wrestle Ric Flair? Tell me your name and 634 00:30:35.829 --> 00:30:36.410 where you're from, too. 635 00:30:37.190 --> 00:30:38.710 Oh, this is Boris from Chicago. 636 00:30:38.730 --> 00:30:40.309 There we go. Just had to get that out there. 637 00:30:40.349 --> 00:30:42.990 Got to make it official. Yeah, Bill, did you ever wrestle? 638 00:30:43.069 --> 00:30:43.430 Oh, yeah. 639 00:30:43.690 --> 00:30:44.349 How about Ric Flair? 640 00:30:45.809 --> 00:30:49.029 Never worked with him. The closest he ever came. 641 00:30:49.230 --> 00:30:49.390 Wow. 642 00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:52.950 I was the booker in Memphis, and we brought Flair 643 00:30:53.009 --> 00:30:56.150 in to work with a southern heavyweight champion. That was 644 00:30:56.549 --> 00:30:59.789 Lava's belt. Everybody knew he was the

southern heavyweight champion. 645 00:31:00.170 --> 00:31:02.289 You came to Memphis, and you wrestled a world champion. 646 00:31:02.809 --> 00:31:07.240 So we did that, and I'm thinking, when Flair comes 647 00:31:07.299 --> 00:31:09.539 in here, there's two or three things we'll do. It'll 648 00:31:09.559 --> 00:31:14.460 either be a DQ. He can beat me. Or we'll 649 00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:17.339 throw it out. Or we'll do something. And that will 650 00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:20.269 suck for next Monday. And I don't have an opponent. 651 00:31:21.670 --> 00:31:25.839 So Memphis Television, unbeknownst to Ric Flair, we go out 652 00:31:25.940 --> 00:31:29.220 on the hour-and-a-half show we have, and Bill Dundee says, 653 00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:33.240 I am the Southern champion. I am wrestling Ric Flair 654 00:31:33.299 --> 00:31:36.309 on Monday night. So everybody's been talking about it for 655 00:31:36.349 --> 00:31:41.589 a week. So I am scheduled to wrestle Coco B. Ware. 656 00:31:42.269 --> 00:31:46.049 Coco just, nobody before, this is the Birdman and all that, 657 00:31:46.089 --> 00:31:49.250 he was just, you know. So it's a Southern title 658 00:31:49.269 --> 00:31:54.279 match on television. So we get this bright idea. Let's 659 00:31:54.359 --> 00:31:57.849 put Coco over, screw the belt, and he'll wrestle Ric Flair. 660 00:31:58.420 --> 00:32:00.269 And then you have an opponent for the next Monday 661 00:32:00.349 --> 00:32:03.589 after that because I am mad at Coco for cheating, 662 00:32:03.930 --> 00:32:08.809 I think. So that's what we did. Ric Flair showed up, 663 00:32:09.190 --> 00:32:12.569 got into the cab to come from the airport, and 664 00:32:12.690 --> 00:32:16.490 the cab driver said, Mr. Flair, I hope you beat 665 00:32:16.569 --> 00:32:21.170 Coco Ware tonight. And he said, who? He said, I'm 666 00:32:21.210 --> 00:32:24.690 wrestling Bill Dundee. He said, no, you're not. Bill Dundee 667 00:32:24.710 --> 00:32:28.170 got beat on Saturday morning. You are wrestling Coco Ware. 668 00:32:29.150 --> 00:32:33.869 He came into that building hollering and screaming and da-da-da-da-da. 669 00:32:34.430 --> 00:32:36.619 And they went to the ring, and he discovered what 670 00:32:36.660 --> 00:32:40.000 a worker Coco was, what a match they had. And 671 00:32:40.039 --> 00:32:42.200 Dusty Rhodes was there, so Dusty came down. We got 672 00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:44.960 all involved, and I had an opponent for the next Monday. 673 00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:47.619 So that is as close as I ever come to 674 00:32:47.859 --> 00:32:48.460 working with Rick. 675 00:32:49.119 --> 00:32:50.839 Wow, I would have thought for sure at some point 676 00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:53.559 you would have crossed paths with him in WCW too. 677 00:32:53.680 --> 00:32:58.019 So that's interesting. Just a reminder, you can reach us 678 00:32:58.200 --> 00:33:01.680 at wadekellerpostshow at gmail.com if you're interested in contributing to 679 00:33:01.700 --> 00:33:05.480 the flagship or wadekellerpostshow at gmail.com if you're interested in 680 00:33:05.680 --> 00:33:07.900 submitting a question or a topic or even a rant 681 00:33:08.069 --> 00:33:14.349 on the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Shows. Boris, thanks 682 00:33:14.369 --> 00:33:15.430 so much for the call. Good to hear from you. 683 00:33:15.470 --> 00:33:17.880 If anybody else wants to get on the phone lines 684 00:33:17.890 --> 00:33:20.319 and give us a question or a topic to discuss, 685 00:33:20.359 --> 00:33:26.400 the phone number is 646-721-9828. I'm Wade Keller, editor and 686 00:33:26.420 --> 00:33:29.880 publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch newsletter and pwtorch.com. And 687 00:33:29.900 --> 00:33:32.240 pleased to be joined today by superstar Bill Dundee, a 688 00:33:32.259 --> 00:33:35.809 Memphis wrestling legend. And we're talking about a variety of subjects. 689 00:33:36.109 --> 00:33:39.269 And I want to give our emailers a chance here 690 00:33:39.329 --> 00:33:43.359 to chime in with the subject and the podcast. First 691 00:33:43.400 --> 00:33:47.579 question is from Mike H., who says, Bill, who was 692 00:33:47.599 --> 00:33:49.680 your favorite wrestler to work with in Memphis? 693 00:33:50.460 --> 00:33:53.289 Oh, well, it's got to be the King, because we 694 00:33:53.349 --> 00:33:56.329 did it more often and drew more money, and it 695 00:33:56.349 --> 00:33:58.509 was just the chemistry that clicked. So, I mean, it 696 00:33:58.569 --> 00:33:59.269 has to be Lawler. 697 00:34:00.529 --> 00:34:03.630 Give me two or three other names that you really liked, 698 00:34:04.539 --> 00:34:06.960 looked forward to wrestling, or that you respected the matches 699 00:34:06.980 --> 00:34:07.579 that you had with him. 700 00:34:08.730 --> 00:34:10.989 Oh, everybody could work back then, so you knew when 701 00:34:11.070 --> 00:34:12.530 it was going. If he was in the ring with 702 00:34:12.550 --> 00:34:14.289 me or in the ring with Jerry Lawler, he was 703 00:34:14.349 --> 00:34:16.500 either the main event or the semifinal, so you know 704 00:34:16.519 --> 00:34:19.079 that the gentleman could work. So it didn't matter. It 705 00:34:19.119 --> 00:34:21.320 was a tag match, and it was, say, Jerry Lawler 706 00:34:21.380 --> 00:34:25.539 and Bill Dundee against Joel LeDuc and Jean-Louis. I enjoyed that. 707 00:34:25.579 --> 00:34:27.699 They were two big monsters. They just beat on you, 708 00:34:27.719 --> 00:34:29.449 and you did your thing and made a comeback and 709 00:34:29.469 --> 00:34:32.550 did whatever. And the Rock and Roll Express was good, too. 710 00:34:32.849 --> 00:34:35.650 Ricky Morton and I did a program with Tommy Rich. 711 00:34:36.199 --> 00:34:38.519 I did with Jimmy Hart when he had the first family, 712 00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:41.380 Coco Ware and Bobby Eaton, managed by Jimmy Hart. Me 713 00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:44.500 and Lawler wrestled. Me and Steve Curran wrestled them. So 714 00:34:44.820 -->

00:34:47.619 I enjoyed it. That was the thing back then. If 715 00:34:47.719 --> 00:34:49.800 I wasn't having fun, I wasn't going to the ring. 716 00:34:50.280 --> 00:34:52.199 I don't know how it is today, but we had 717 00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:52.760 a lot of fun. 718 00:34:53.960 --> 00:34:57.059 Yep. Was there anybody you did not like working with? 719 00:34:57.139 --> 00:34:58.820 I mean, you say everybody back then was a good worker. 720 00:34:58.840 --> 00:35:00.900 Did you ever run across somebody who was just so 721 00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:04.960 green or so drunk or so uncooperative or too egotistical? 722 00:35:05.340 --> 00:35:07.139 Anything like that where you don't mind talking about it? 723 00:35:08.070 --> 00:35:09.659 Yeah, if they were so drunk, they wouldn't have worked 724 00:35:09.699 --> 00:35:11.570 with me. If they were more egotistical than me, they 725 00:35:11.610 --> 00:35:15.989 certainly wouldn't have worked with me. It wasn't hard when 726 00:35:16.010 --> 00:35:18.110 you're the booker in the office. It's not hard. I 727 00:35:18.150 --> 00:35:20.329 ain't working with him. But he never knows you say 728 00:35:20.369 --> 00:35:24.369 that because his name's never wrote alongside you. So I 729 00:35:24.429 --> 00:35:27.170 never really had to, somebody didn't book me against some 730 00:35:27.269 --> 00:35:30.780 idiot and say, hey, you go do this. No, I ain't. So, no. 731 00:35:31.659 --> 00:35:35.320 Yeah, good point, good point. It's nice to have that 732 00:35:35.360 --> 00:35:38.500 kind of power. Yes, it is. To not have to 733 00:35:38.519 --> 00:35:41.239 be put in that position. All right, another question from 734 00:35:41.300 --> 00:35:43.559 Mike H. He says, can you ask him what it 735 00:35:43.579 --> 00:35:45.340 was like to manage Steven Regal? 736 00:35:48.519 --> 00:35:49.119 Sir William? 737 00:35:49.579 --> 00:35:50.500 Yep, Sir William, yep. 738 00:35:51.619 --> 00:35:55.380 I hated that little drunk. But anyway, it was all 739 00:35:55.400 --> 00:35:58.340 right with Regal. He could wrestle, and, you know, he's... 740 00:35:59.570 --> 00:36:02.320 I never always cared to be the manager, and I 741 00:36:02.360 --> 00:36:04.659 never wanted to be an announcer. Lala liked to talk 742 00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:07.679 and all that. So that's how I never, ever pursued that. 743 00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:10.929 And the manager part, it was fun. I mean, Regal 744 00:36:10.969 --> 00:36:13.309 was working with, like, Ricky Steamboat, and he worked with 745 00:36:13.329 --> 00:36:15.590 Davey Boy Smith and all them guys. I mean, it 746 00:36:15.610 --> 00:36:17.050 was good. I enjoyed it. 747 00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:21.619 And Regal had a background in the carnivals in England 748 00:36:21.699 --> 00:36:25.000 and doing some wrestling there. Was that kind of a 749 00:36:25.019 --> 00:36:27.639 bond with you guys, that you both came from there 750 00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:29.840 and maybe had some something in common? 751 00:36:29.940 --> 00:36:32.559 I don't know if it was a bond or anything. 752 00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:34.559 I don't know. He was an Englishman. I was a Scotsman. 753 00:36:34.579 --> 00:36:37.780 We were both religion. Both religion when we got drunk 754 00:36:37.860 --> 00:36:40.530 or whatever. So, I mean, yeah. But I got along 755 00:36:40.550 --> 00:36:42.269 good with him. I mean, he did some silly things 756 00:36:42.329 --> 00:36:46.429 on airplanes after I left. But, you know, he was 757 00:36:46.469 --> 00:36:46.789 all right. 758 00:36:47.650 --> 00:36:47.789 Yeah. 759 00:36:49.119 --> 00:36:52.019 Uh... looking at the next question here and it's pretty 760 00:36:52.039 --> 00:36:54.840 similar question that the contract campbell but he adds to 761 00:36:54.929 --> 00:36:58.050 it uh... how do you end up managing regal uh... 762 00:36:58.210 --> 00:36:59.969 what what how did that come about with that your 763 00:37:00.010 --> 00:37:02.170 choice and uh... and who proposed. 764 00:37:01.869 --> 00:37:05.929 Yet but you've heard clear about bill wats saw him 765 00:37:05.969 --> 00:37:08.650 when he was the booker for it but when he 766 00:37:08.690 --> 00:37:11.699 went in and he brought me to over here and 767 00:37:11.739 --> 00:37:16.219 then bill got himself fired And don't let you think 768 00:37:16.260 --> 00:37:18.500 we fired Bill. Bill got himself fired. He wrote the 769 00:37:18.559 --> 00:37:20.820 contract and they had to pay him. But that's another story. 770 00:37:21.400 --> 00:37:24.449 So now you have poor Steve Regal, Dan Matthews, whatever 771 00:37:24.489 --> 00:37:27.510 you want, in America and doesn't got a friggin' clue 772 00:37:27.550 --> 00:37:31.110 how to work in America. I saw an interview he did. 773 00:37:31.130 --> 00:37:32.570 He stood out there with a blazer and a pair 774 00:37:32.590 --> 00:37:34.710 of slacks on. He put the B sign, Victor, in 775 00:37:34.750 --> 00:37:38.090 his head. Steven Regal. Yeah, that's going to draw you 776 00:37:38.110 --> 00:37:42.030 a lot of money. So anyway, that's the... And then 777 00:37:42.050 --> 00:37:44.019 we're just sitting talking. You know who the big dream is? 778 00:37:44.030 --> 00:37:46.730 He said, He said, he needs to be a lord, man. 779 00:37:47.170 --> 00:37:50.519 Lord Steven Regal, or some damn thing, an Englishman. He said, yeah, 780 00:37:50.539 --> 00:37:53.719 that's a good idea, baby. We need to put... What 781 00:37:53.739 --> 00:37:56.599 the hell was his name? Isn't that awful? Can't think of... 782 00:37:56.519 --> 00:37:59.780 I don't know, as good as Moe. That'll be good old. 783 00:37:59.800 --> 00:38:00.659 You can't think of things. 784 00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:02.639 I still... I can't... I can't remember. 785 00:38:02.659 --> 00:38:05.250 Larry Sabisco. He was going to put Larry Sabisco as 786 00:38:05.269 --> 00:38:07.650 the manager of the thing. I said, why would you 787 00:38:07.690 --> 00:38:10.809 do that? He has no

English accent. He doesn't know 788 00:38:10.869 --> 00:38:14.630 nothing about lords and things that... Yeah, well, you do it. 789 00:38:14.929 --> 00:38:17.170 I said, well, okay. So I got the little hat 790 00:38:17.230 --> 00:38:19.130 and the glasses and the tails and all the other 791 00:38:19.150 --> 00:38:22.019 things and became Sir William, and so easy it was 792 00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:25.460 for that to happen. And I'm going to tell you, 793 00:38:26.420 --> 00:38:31.389 if they had pushed Regal and WCW, we would have 794 00:38:31.409 --> 00:38:35.389 got over. Now, what their big baby was then was 795 00:38:35.769 --> 00:38:37.630 WCW Saturday night. Remember that? 796 00:38:37.929 --> 00:38:38.989 Yep, yep, absolutely. 797 00:38:39.369 --> 00:38:41.670 Okay, that was the thing. If you got ratings on that, 798 00:38:41.710 --> 00:38:44.889 the judges you bought, you was getting over. So after 799 00:38:44.929 --> 00:38:47.110 the deal with it, so I suggested a booking meeting. 800 00:38:47.429 --> 00:38:49.409 Bischoff's there and all the brains are there. I said, 801 00:38:50.429 --> 00:38:54.309 let Regal Russell set Larry Sabisco. Nah, nobody want to 802 00:38:54.349 --> 00:38:59.050 watch that. Okay, well, we did it. Finally, Dusty says, okay, 803 00:38:59.070 --> 00:39:01.590 we'll do it. So we did it. The three weeks 804 00:39:01.630 --> 00:39:03.739 that they worked, the ratings were the best they had 805 00:39:03.780 --> 00:39:07.519 been in a long time. Because they could both wrestle. 806 00:39:07.880 --> 00:39:08.119 Yeah. 807 00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:12.360 And they made intense-type interviews, and it was just, you know, 808 00:39:13.539 --> 00:39:16.219 that's what being the good booker was all about. You 809 00:39:16.260 --> 00:39:18.550 saw two guys, and if they ever got together, they'd 810 00:39:18.570 --> 00:39:22.170 draw money. But by the time I got to WCW, 811 00:39:22.210 --> 00:39:24.530 Bischoff was doing his thing. He was the head honcho, 812 00:39:24.590 --> 00:39:27.070 and more Peru up his nose than you could ever 813 00:39:27.130 --> 00:39:28.929 poke a stick at. And I don't know what the 814 00:39:28.949 --> 00:39:31.960 hell he was looking at, but... anyway, the guy's still 815 00:39:31.980 --> 00:39:35.280 making money. He kisses big Hulk Hogan's backside now. So 816 00:39:35.300 --> 00:39:38.719 what can you say or do? But anyway, that was then, 817 00:39:38.760 --> 00:39:40.050 this is now. 818 00:39:40.090 --> 00:39:41.989 When you were around Eric, was there anything that you 819 00:39:42.010 --> 00:39:43.789 admired about him? Did you think he would end up... 820 00:39:43.750 --> 00:39:44.070 What the hell? 821 00:39:48.159 --> 00:39:51.519 I admired about him. Wow. Yeah, how he weaseled his 822 00:39:51.579 --> 00:39:53.340 way into the job. But Bill Watts put him in 823 00:39:53.380 --> 00:39:53.780 that job. 824 00:39:54.079 --> 00:39:54.159 Yeah. 825 00:39:54.179 --> 00:39:56.199 He'd come to me

and he'd say, well, I got 826 00:39:56.219 --> 00:39:58.510 this guy. Nobody wanted to wear a suit. Adam wore 827 00:39:58.530 --> 00:40:00.619 a suit. But he was smarter than us all. He 828 00:40:00.639 --> 00:40:04.429 got around Bill Shaw and cut everybody's throat and all 829 00:40:04.469 --> 00:40:06.969 kinds of things. But anyway, don't get me started on that. 830 00:40:07.010 --> 00:40:08.690 I'll be using language and I'll let you use. 831 00:40:10.980 --> 00:40:13.610 Yeah, Bill, everybody listening, Bill asked me beforehand, can I 832 00:40:13.639 --> 00:40:15.849 swear when I'm on the show? I'm like, well, we 833 00:40:15.869 --> 00:40:18.670 try not to. He's like, all right, all right. So 834 00:40:18.969 --> 00:40:21.449 this is the restrained version of him, especially when we 835 00:40:21.489 --> 00:40:24.969 talk about people like Eric Bischoff. When you were part 836 00:40:24.989 --> 00:40:30.679 of WCW in that era, did that feel like wrestling 837 00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:33.400 had gone off the tracks, or were there still enough... 838 00:40:33.820 --> 00:40:37.019 people around that you respected and enough voices of reason 839 00:40:37.059 --> 00:40:39.980 that you thought, this is still wrestling as I liked 840 00:40:40.039 --> 00:40:42.380 it and knew it? Or were you kind of checking 841 00:40:42.420 --> 00:40:43.820 out a little bit, just kind of feeling like it 842 00:40:43.860 --> 00:40:44.659 was changing too much? 843 00:40:45.389 --> 00:40:47.670 Well, it was changing, but you had Greg Gagne there 844 00:40:47.690 --> 00:40:50.889 that knew about wrestling. You had Mike Graham, even Big Dust. 845 00:40:50.929 --> 00:40:53.070 But Big Dust was bad at looking after Dust, and 846 00:40:53.090 --> 00:40:55.210 he was the whole crew. So, yeah, there was guys 847 00:40:55.230 --> 00:40:58.230 there that understood it. But you wasn't allowed to do it. 848 00:40:59.110 --> 00:41:01.519 And when Hogan came in, it really went off the rails. So, 849 00:41:01.539 --> 00:41:04.480 I mean, what can you do? They were into showbiz, 850 00:41:04.519 --> 00:41:06.739 and we were trying to make it real, and we 851 00:41:06.760 --> 00:41:07.239 was losing. 852 00:41:07.840 --> 00:41:11.000 Yeah. Yeah. Very good. All right. Our phone number here 853 00:41:11.559 --> 00:41:17.159 is 646-721-9828. That's 646-721-9828. You can also email us questions 854 00:41:17.260 --> 00:41:19.400 live during the show. We've got 25 more minutes live, 855 00:41:19.420 --> 00:41:21.139 and then we'll probably do a few minutes in a 856 00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:24.099 VIP after show right after that. And you can email 857 00:41:24.119 --> 00:41:30.789 your questions to pwtorchlivecast at gmail.com. That's pwtorchlivecast at gmail.com. 858 00:41:33.099 --> 00:41:35.199 Admit it, you love Nick Barbatti when he co-hosts with 859 00:41:35.239 --> 00:41:37.000 me on the Wade Keller Post Shows. Well, now you 860 00:41:37.019 --> 00:41:39.300 can listen to him every week on the Nicky's Club, 861 00:41:39.340 --> 00:41:42.389 a VIP exclusive podcast. Here's Nick to tell you more. 862 00:41:42.530 --> 00:41:44.949 Hey, wrestling fans. It's Nick Barbatti, and I'm back with 863 00:41:44.969 --> 00:41:47.050 the Nicky's Club, the place where the family of Nicky's 864 00:41:47.110 --> 00:41:50.010 comes together for big laughs and sharp takes on WWE. 865 00:41:50.110 --> 00:41:53.010 From WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns, I got you covered. 866 00:41:53.170 --> 00:41:55.369 The Nicky's Club, where the wrestling feels like the coolest 867 00:41:55.409 --> 00:41:55.969 club in town. 868 00:41:56.210 --> 00:41:57.989 Nick Barbatti wants to be part of your pro wrestling 869 00:41:58.030 --> 00:42:02.360 life every week, so... Why not let him? GoVIP. PWTorch.com 870 00:42:02.639 --> 00:42:05.559 slash GoVIP for full details on signing up. We're compatible 871 00:42:05.579 --> 00:42:08.880 with Patreon, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and just about any other 872 00:42:09.019 --> 00:42:11.019 iOS or Android app out there. You can also stream 873 00:42:11.039 --> 00:42:14.059 directly from our ad-free VIP website. The Nicky's Club, waiting 874 00:42:14.079 --> 00:42:18.590 for you every week at PWTorch VIP. Let's go to 875 00:42:18.610 --> 00:42:22.849 our next caller, and the area code is 608. Thanks 876 00:42:22.869 --> 00:42:24.869 for calling 608. Please state your name and where you're from. 877 00:42:26.489 --> 00:42:27.210 Hey, Wade and Bill. 878 00:42:27.230 --> 00:42:28.690 It's Matt Fanatic from Wisconsin. 879 00:42:28.710 --> 00:42:30.679 How are you guys doing? Doing great. Great to hear 880 00:42:30.699 --> 00:42:31.099 from you, Matt. 881 00:42:32.699 --> 00:42:34.820 Yeah, Bill, I have a question, and I hope it's 882 00:42:34.860 --> 00:42:38.130 not too personal or anything. I think I may have 883 00:42:38.150 --> 00:42:39.269 heard you talk about it before. 884 00:42:39.289 --> 00:42:41.449 I had heard there was a story. 885 00:42:41.190 --> 00:42:45.210 About in Memphis with the outlaw promotion with the Savages. 886 00:42:46.050 --> 00:42:48.650 Is it true that you and Randy Savage got in 887 00:42:48.690 --> 00:42:51.679 a fight outside the convenience store? And I can't remember 888 00:42:51.699 --> 00:42:53.719 if you broke his jaw or he broke your jaw, 889 00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:55.219 but can we hear that story if it's true? 890 00:42:57.010 --> 00:43:00.110 There was no broken jars. It wasn't a convenience store. 891 00:43:00.130 --> 00:43:04.449 It was at a gym. And we had... It was 892 00:43:04.510 --> 00:43:08.389 a fight. I came out of the gym and I 893 00:43:08.429 --> 00:43:13.929 saw Thunderbolt Patterson walking up towards me. And my Cadillac 894 00:43:13.969 --> 00:43:17.090 was parked in the parking lot. So I just walked 895 00:43:17.110 --> 00:43:18.719 over to my Cadillac and I was leaning against it. 896 00:43:18.739 --> 00:43:22.019 And I hadn't seen both since we was in Australia.

Thunderbolt, 897 00:43:22.039 --> 00:43:23.900 what the hell are you doing? So he's standing there 898 00:43:23.920 --> 00:43:26.869 talking to me. My back is the kind of to 899 00:43:26.889 --> 00:43:28.630 the back door if I'd just come out of the gym. 900 00:43:29.210 --> 00:43:31.750 So I'm just leaning against the Cadillac and I feel 901 00:43:31.769 --> 00:43:35.940 this wow and bam. What the hell? So Randy has 902 00:43:35.980 --> 00:43:38.639 run down the hill and sucker punched me in the 903 00:43:38.760 --> 00:43:40.519 eye of the top of the head, as you would say. 904 00:43:41.699 --> 00:43:45.920 And I said, Randy Savage, you... Well, I can't say 905 00:43:45.940 --> 00:43:47.860 the words. But anyway, I said a few words to 906 00:43:47.909 --> 00:43:50.110 him and we kind of just rolled around. None of 907 00:43:50.170 --> 00:43:53.550 us went off with feet. Nobody fell down. Nobody did nothing. 908 00:43:54.369 --> 00:43:54.550 So. 909 00:43:55.420 --> 00:43:56.980 I thought, if I get to the back of this car, 910 00:43:57.039 --> 00:44:01.639 I will restore order. So I just said, right, you goofy, 911 00:44:01.719 --> 00:44:03.340 and I called him a few names, and I started 912 00:44:03.360 --> 00:44:04.599 to walk to the back of the car, and he 913 00:44:04.639 --> 00:44:06.219 says to me, you've got a gun in that car. 914 00:44:06.280 --> 00:44:09.039 I said, you're damn right I do. And he went 915 00:44:09.079 --> 00:44:10.679 to the front of it and looked up onto the, 916 00:44:11.639 --> 00:44:14.989 because back then you had to, you couldn't conceal them, 917 00:44:15.010 --> 00:44:17.469 so you would lay them off the dashboard so anybody 918 00:44:17.510 --> 00:44:19.590 would see the gun in your apartment or whatever. But anyway, 919 00:44:19.909 --> 00:44:22.010 it was in the trunk, so there was no buttons 920 00:44:22.090 --> 00:44:23.650 in them days. It was a key, so I had 921 00:44:23.670 --> 00:44:26.030 to get the key, into the keyhole of the thing, 922 00:44:26.090 --> 00:44:29.530 turn the lock, lift the trunk up, then came the briefcase, 923 00:44:29.590 --> 00:44:32.380 and I thought, oh, God, I hope this thing ain't locked. 924 00:44:32.920 --> 00:44:34.920 So anyway, I flicked the two buttons, it ain't locked, 925 00:44:36.099 --> 00:44:38.000 flipped the lid up, get my hand in there, Randy 926 00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:40.340 has run around, back around the car, and he jumps 927 00:44:40.400 --> 00:44:44.360 on my back, and he's dead, Angelo, is on the 928 00:44:44.400 --> 00:44:46.340 side of the car, and he reaches in and pulls 929 00:44:46.420 --> 00:44:48.760 my right hand. When he pulled the right hand, the 930 00:44:48.800 --> 00:44:50.630 gun came out, and I cocked it and stuck it 931 00:44:50.670 --> 00:44:52.829 on his forehead and said, get your silly son off 932 00:44:52.869 --> 00:44:54.429 the back of my head, or I will kill you 933 00:44:54.449 --> 00:44:58.489 right now. And Randy went, oh, and he just jumped 934 00:44:58.550 --> 00:45:01.309 off my back and ran up the hill, and he said, 935 00:45:01.329 --> 00:45:04.619 the fight's over, the fight's over, and he just took off. Now, 936 00:45:04.860 --> 00:45:07.239 his old dear old dad's standing there like an idiot. 937 00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:10.599 Thunderbolt Patterson, the guy that actually knew Randy was going 938 00:45:10.619 --> 00:45:13.230 to do this. He's standing there. Now, Pez Watley, I 939 00:45:13.269 --> 00:45:17.289 always go along with Pez. He's away from the car. 940 00:45:17.309 --> 00:45:19.690 He doesn't do nothing. So I'm looking at them, and 941 00:45:19.710 --> 00:45:23.510 I said, now what? Because everybody just looks stupid. Nothing 942 00:45:23.550 --> 00:45:26.769 has happened. So they just walked away, got in their van, 943 00:45:26.809 --> 00:45:29.889 and drove off. So they went and got warned for 944 00:45:29.909 --> 00:45:32.070 me with assault with a deadly weapon. So now I 945 00:45:32.090 --> 00:45:36.199 wasn't doing nothing about it. So I have to go 946 00:45:36.219 --> 00:45:41.079 get warned for them. So we go to court. Randy 947 00:45:41.119 --> 00:45:45.199 has gone into fights with people in Nashville. The guy, 948 00:45:45.239 --> 00:45:47.110 the cops came and set the dog on him. The 949 00:45:47.159 --> 00:45:49.630 dog had bit him. All kinds of things. He got 950 00:45:49.670 --> 00:45:51.949 in a fight. The guy was going to buy everybody 951 00:45:51.989 --> 00:45:54.489 a coffee with the Waffle House. He said, I just 952 00:45:54.530 --> 00:45:58.550 got married, Randy. We'll get to applying. The guy nailed 953 00:45:58.570 --> 00:46:01.079 him again to a fight. So he'd had a lot 954 00:46:01.780 --> 00:46:05.519 of warrants set in Nashville. So anyway, we go to court. 955 00:46:07.079 --> 00:46:12.039 Angelo sends Who the hell was it? Saul Weingroff. He 956 00:46:12.159 --> 00:46:13.880 used to be a manager here, so they'd known one 957 00:46:13.940 --> 00:46:16.820 another for years. So he works in the jail. So 958 00:46:16.860 --> 00:46:18.909 he sends Saul up and says to me, Bill, we're 959 00:46:18.929 --> 00:46:21.710 going to go Broadway with this. I ain't going Broadway 960 00:46:21.750 --> 00:46:26.690 with nobody. I'm winning this. So my lawyer's there. They're 961 00:46:26.769 --> 00:46:28.630 all there. There's 10 of them. The whole crew's sitting 962 00:46:28.650 --> 00:46:32.389 in the court. So he comes back. Then Angelo finally 963 00:46:32.409 --> 00:46:34.579 walks back. He says, oh, you don't even know. I said, well, 964 00:46:34.619 --> 00:46:36.400 you should have thought of that two months ago or 965 00:46:36.440 --> 00:46:38.159 three months ago, whatever it was we did to all 966 00:46:38.179 --> 00:46:41.550 of them. So finally, I called Jared. I said, hey, man, 967 00:46:41.829 --> 00:46:43.469 there's no cell phones in them days. You've got to 968 00:46:43.510 --> 00:46:45.230 find a quarter. You've got to go to

the damn thing. 969 00:46:45.289 --> 00:46:46.710 You've got to find a dime. 970 00:46:46.730 --> 00:46:48.550 To make a phone call, a dime or whatever the 971 00:46:48.570 --> 00:46:51.769 hell it was. So anyway, he said, well, maybe the 972 00:46:51.809 --> 00:46:54.309 best thing. I said, well, okay, here we go. So 973 00:46:54.889 --> 00:46:57.800 I go back and say, okay, we're going Broadway. So 974 00:46:57.840 --> 00:46:59.860 we approach the bench. We throw it out. They drop 975 00:46:59.900 --> 00:47:01.199 their charges. I drop mine. 976 00:47:01.980 --> 00:47:02.659 We all go home. 977 00:47:03.780 --> 00:47:07.510 And I'll be damned if they don't hire him. But 978 00:47:07.530 --> 00:47:09.750 that's another story. You had to work in Memphis to 979 00:47:09.769 --> 00:47:10.750 know all that. 980 00:47:11.750 --> 00:47:12.510 Yeah. 981 00:47:12.570 --> 00:47:14.730 But I have never worked with Randy Savage apart from 982 00:47:14.750 --> 00:47:16.610 that in the parking lot, and I have never really 983 00:47:16.630 --> 00:47:18.570 been on a card with him apart from that. So 984 00:47:18.610 --> 00:47:21.010 that was, you know. 985 00:47:21.050 --> 00:47:23.010 You were never on the same wrestling card as Randy Savage? 986 00:47:23.889 --> 00:47:24.070 Nope. 987 00:47:24.929 --> 00:47:25.780 Oh, wow, that's interesting. 988 00:47:26.389 --> 00:47:27.380 Yeah. Because I left. 989 00:47:27.960 --> 00:47:28.960 Yeah, yeah. 990 00:47:29.519 --> 00:47:34.059 Well, maybe I was leaving because I remember... Jamie and 991 00:47:34.099 --> 00:47:37.000 me was walking down, and I told Randy, I said, 992 00:47:37.139 --> 00:47:39.280 I took your bad shot, but you've never took mine. 993 00:47:39.300 --> 00:47:41.929 I don't know if that stuck with him or whatever, 994 00:47:41.949 --> 00:47:44.409 but he was walking down the hall in Memphis, and 995 00:47:44.469 --> 00:47:46.269 I was coming up, and Jamie was just a little 996 00:47:46.309 --> 00:47:50.159 bitty fellow, my boy, and he said, he's himself. Randy 997 00:47:50.199 --> 00:47:51.840 turned his back to the wall, and he stood with 998 00:47:51.880 --> 00:47:53.340 his back to the wall, and he just kind of 999 00:47:53.360 --> 00:47:56.610 looked at me. And Jimmy says, you're the guy that 1000 00:47:56.659 --> 00:47:59.780 sucker punched my dad. And Randy did the mushroom man thing. No, 1001 00:47:59.880 --> 00:48:02.320 heavy drugs, kid. Heavy drugs. We don't need to talk 1002 00:48:02.360 --> 00:48:05.539 about this no more, man. Heavy drugs. I said, well, 1003 00:48:07.320 --> 00:48:08.340 how are you? He said. 1004 00:48:08.360 --> 00:48:12.940 And did I miss it? What triggered Randy coming at 1005 00:48:12.980 --> 00:48:13.900 you like that initially? 1006 00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:15.039 He's goofy. 1007 00:48:15.920 --> 00:48:16.480 Okay. 1008 00:48:16.500 --> 00:48:16.940 He was. 1009 00:48:17.219 --> 00:48:21.260 I mean, we're taking pills, smoking dope, doing it. I mean, 1010 00:48:21.679 --> 00:48:24.159 who knows? And I had a pair of tights somebody 1011 00:48:24.199 --> 00:48:26.880 gave me. And it said Macho Man on the back. 1012 00:48:26.900 --> 00:48:28.900 And I wore them on Memphis TV, and he seen them. 1013 00:48:29.079 --> 00:48:31.139 And he called me up. Hey, Randy, you over here? 1014 00:48:31.199 --> 00:48:33.130 I said, oh, Randy, this is the work, man. Somebody 1015 00:48:33.150 --> 00:48:37.969 give me them tights. And he just, who knows? They 1016 00:48:37.989 --> 00:48:41.190 were trying to take over our territory. They came into 1017 00:48:41.409 --> 00:48:44.869 Nashville and Memphis and all of the tribe. We never 1018 00:48:44.909 --> 00:48:48.329 bothered them. They gave us more publicity than we got 1019 00:48:48.389 --> 00:48:51.019 on our own damn TV. He would talk about Lawler 1020 00:48:51.039 --> 00:48:54.239 and Dundee on every show. So he even went on 1021 00:48:54.260 --> 00:48:56.639 his TV and said, Bill Dunn, I hit Bill Dunn, 1022 00:48:56.679 --> 00:48:58.809 broke his jaw, and I was on the next TV 1023 00:48:58.829 --> 00:49:02.530 the Saturday morning on Memphis that more people see and 1024 00:49:02.610 --> 00:49:04.230 all the things. I said, hey, there's a guy, an 1025 00:49:04.349 --> 00:49:06.769 idiot out here talking about breaking my jaw. Does it 1026 00:49:06.809 --> 00:49:09.409 look like it's broke? Here I am. I said, now, 1027 00:49:09.429 --> 00:49:10.969 if you want to know about the fight, there was 1028 00:49:11.050 --> 00:49:13.349 four big ones. I made it all this funny. Four 1029 00:49:13.389 --> 00:49:15.769 big monsters jumped on me, and I hit this one 1030 00:49:15.809 --> 00:49:17.610 and knocked this one out, blah, blah, blah. 1031 00:49:18.010 --> 00:49:18.550 Not a mark. 1032 00:49:18.590 --> 00:49:20.690 I said, you should see that. not a mark on 1033 00:49:20.710 --> 00:49:23.949 them but you know that kind of thing but it 1034 00:49:24.030 --> 00:49:26.280 turned a little bone up in my eye and it 1035 00:49:26.420 --> 00:49:30.480 cost three thousand dollars to fix it back then and 1036 00:49:31.900 --> 00:49:34.320 that was all you could see but you couldn't tell 1037 00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:36.619 it had happened so when I came on the TV 1038 00:49:37.059 --> 00:49:39.579 there was no problem people thought that Randy Savage is. 1039 00:49:39.559 --> 00:49:44.190 Goofy Great story, and I know you've got a chapter 1040 00:49:44.250 --> 00:49:45.889 in your book coming up later this year on that. 1041 00:49:46.090 --> 00:49:48.530 Oh, yeah, and the real words are in it. Yeah, 1042 00:49:48.570 --> 00:49:50.460 the mother of. 1043 00:49:50.960 --> 00:49:52.860 Unfiltered, unfiltered, the unfiltered version. 1044 00:49:52.880 --> 00:49:53.219 Yeah. 1045 00:49:53.840 --> 00:49:58.480 Matt, do you have any follow-up for Bill? No, not really. 1046 00:49:58.679 --> 00:49:59.909 Thanks for clearing that up, Bill. 1047 00:50:00.469 --> 00:50:01.150 Love the

story. 1048 00:50:01.349 --> 00:50:03.510 And just a follow-up. You were talking about your. 1049 00:50:03.429 --> 00:50:04.829 Time at WCW before. 1050 00:50:05.349 --> 00:50:07.110 What is maybe the worst. 1051 00:50:08.920 --> 00:50:12.619 Heard from a higher-up in WCW about a booking idea. 1052 00:50:12.719 --> 00:50:13.320 Like, were you there? 1053 00:50:13.780 --> 00:50:15.340 I tuned in late. Were you there during the Jim 1054 00:50:15.380 --> 00:50:18.719 Hurd days? Like, anything worse than the hunchbacks and the ding-dongs? 1055 00:50:20.860 --> 00:50:22.219 Ah, that was before me, brother. 1056 00:50:24.159 --> 00:50:27.000 Do you have any memories of really bad ideas, though, 1057 00:50:27.300 --> 00:50:28.480 while you were in WCW? 1058 00:50:29.460 --> 00:50:31.699 Well, they were all supposed to be. No, I mean, 1059 00:50:31.780 --> 00:50:34.840 you know, Hogan was there by then, and Bischoff was there, 1060 00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:38.380 and Dusty, and Mike Graham, and Greg Gagnon. Larry Sabichka, 1061 00:50:38.500 --> 00:50:41.159 all them guys were in the wrestling business the way 1062 00:50:41.239 --> 00:50:44.110 I knew it. But you would get overruled by some 1063 00:50:44.150 --> 00:50:46.949 of the things. No, we were pretty well doing the 1064 00:50:46.989 --> 00:50:51.070 best we could. I mean, you book Steven Riegel against 1065 00:50:51.150 --> 00:50:52.969 Ricky Steamboat, you're going to have a hell of a match. 1066 00:50:53.750 --> 00:50:56.090 You book Steamboat against Rick Player, you're going to have 1067 00:50:56.130 --> 00:50:58.340 a hell of a match. So there was a lot 1068 00:50:58.360 --> 00:51:01.719 of guys who could work. Rock and roll was there. No, 1069 00:51:02.360 --> 00:51:05.760 we never... They did some goofy stuff, you're right, but 1070 00:51:05.820 --> 00:51:06.559 that's what they wanted. 1071 00:51:07.750 --> 00:51:09.969 Yep. Very good. Matt, thanks for the call. We had 1072 00:51:09.989 --> 00:51:11.989 some background noise, so I had to put you on hold, 1073 00:51:12.030 --> 00:51:13.590 but we'll move on to our next caller here. If 1074 00:51:13.630 --> 00:51:15.170 anybody else wants to get in line on the phone, thanks. 1075 00:51:15.190 --> 00:51:22.409 The number is 646-721-9828. 646-721-9828. We've got about 15 minutes 1076 00:51:22.449 --> 00:51:26.079 left in the live portion of the show, and then 1077 00:51:26.099 --> 00:51:27.380 we're going to do a little bit of a VIP 1078 00:51:27.440 --> 00:51:30.099 after show. Bruce Mitchell, 20-year Torch columnist, has sent me 1079 00:51:30.139 --> 00:51:32.719 some questions that he wanted me to ask Bill. He 1080 00:51:32.760 --> 00:51:34.099 was going to try to join us for the interview, 1081 00:51:34.139 --> 00:51:37.510 but he had an obligation come up, so... I've got 1082 00:51:37.530 --> 00:51:38.949 some questions from him that if we don't get to 1083 00:51:38.969 --> 00:51:40.730 them here during the main hour, we'll spend a few 1084

00:51:40.750 --> 00:51:44.329 minutes afterwards addressing those after we go off the air live. 1085 00:51:44.349 --> 00:51:48.030 And that'll be a VIP member exclusive. You know that 1086 00:51:48.070 --> 00:51:50.289 last segment you're just listening to and the next one 1087 00:51:50.309 --> 00:51:52.590 that you're waiting to listen to? Those can be one 1088 00:51:52.650 --> 00:51:55.030 second apart with a VIP membership. You can unlock our 1089 00:51:55.050 --> 00:51:59.710 commercial-free versions of our shows. PWTorch.com slash GoVIP tells you 1090 00:51:59.730 --> 00:52:04.260 how to do it. That's PWTorch.com. slash GoVIP. Options exist 1091 00:52:04.320 --> 00:52:08.239 within the Apple Podcast app using your Apple account, through Patreon, 1092 00:52:08.260 --> 00:52:10.070 which by the way, you can sync up with Spotify, 1093 00:52:10.360 --> 00:52:12.929 or just about any iOS or Android app. With a 1094 00:52:12.949 --> 00:52:16.170 full VIP membership, you can customize the feed for individual 1095 00:52:16.230 --> 00:52:20.309 shows and clusters of shows and themes. Go to pwtorch.com 1096 00:52:20.349 --> 00:52:23.219 slash GoVIP for full details on all the options to 1097 00:52:23.280 --> 00:52:27.099 listen commercial free. And with upper tier options, unlock our 1098 00:52:27.199 --> 00:52:30.039 VIP exclusive podcasts that run throughout the week every week. 1099 00:52:31.949 --> 00:52:34.590 Let's go next to area code 210. Thanks so much 1100 00:52:34.610 --> 00:52:37.590 for holding. Please state your name and where you're. 1101 00:52:37.389 --> 00:52:39.849 From, 210. 1102 00:52:40.030 --> 00:52:44.130 Hey, how's it going this afternoon? My name is Daryl. 1103 00:52:44.150 --> 00:52:46.690 Yep, Daryl, go ahead with your question or comment for Bill. Hey, 1104 00:52:46.710 --> 00:52:47.309 how's it going, guys? 1105 00:52:48.210 --> 00:52:49.869 I got to apologize. I didn't know you were going 1106 00:52:49.889 --> 00:52:51.610 to have a guest today. I already had a question 1107 00:52:51.630 --> 00:52:56.210 for you, Wade. My question for you was maybe two 1108 00:52:56.230 --> 00:52:58.210 or three weeks ago you went in, not in depth, 1109 00:52:58.250 --> 00:53:02.610 but you gave a quick analysis of how MMA actually 1110 00:53:02.650 --> 00:53:04.489 got started in Japan. 1111 00:53:04.610 --> 00:53:05.820 Yeah. 1112 00:53:05.860 --> 00:53:08.460 And I got a buddy listening right now, and he 1113 00:53:08.480 --> 00:53:12.199 didn't really believe you, or I'm sorry, me rather. So 1114 00:53:12.599 --> 00:53:14.699 I just wanted you to kind of say that out 1115 00:53:14.739 --> 00:53:15.139 loud again. 1116 00:53:15.860 --> 00:53:18.579 Well, I'll tell you what. If you know what show 1117 00:53:18.639 --> 00:53:20.519 it was on, we've got a lot of background noise, 1118 00:53:20.539 --> 00:53:21.880 so I'm going to put you on hold. Daryl, you 1119 00:53:21.920 --> 00:53:23.420 can still hear me, but I can't hear you because

1120 00:53:23.440 --> 00:53:25.760 of the traffic noise, I think. Just because we had 1121 00:53:25.780 --> 00:53:27.539 Bill Dundee on, I'm not going to run down all 1122 00:53:27.559 --> 00:53:29.650 the details again. If you remember what show it was, though, 1123 00:53:29.670 --> 00:53:32.260 it is in the archives. Any past shows, by the way, 1124 00:53:32.289 --> 00:53:37.710 you can listen to at blogtalkradio.com slash pro-wrestling-torch. I mean, 1125 00:53:38.469 --> 00:53:43.110 very briefly, MMA evolved out of Japan. I mean, there 1126 00:53:43.130 --> 00:53:46.769 was Nobuhiko Takada, who had a tough man reputation and 1127 00:53:46.809 --> 00:53:50.409 had worked matches in main events when they started featuring 1128 00:53:50.639 --> 00:53:54.900 a stiffer style and semi-shoots on the undercard. There was UWFI, 1129 00:53:54.940 --> 00:53:57.719 which kind of had that reputation for being, quote, strong style. 1130 00:53:58.420 --> 00:54:02.880 Pancrase began and started featuring full-fledged real fights, but there 1131 00:54:02.900 --> 00:54:05.360 was some working that went on on top. Pride was 1132 00:54:05.440 --> 00:54:09.039 created with the idea being to have all real fights, 1133 00:54:09.460 --> 00:54:11.610 but to book them in a way that their top 1134 00:54:11.659 --> 00:54:14.789 stars that they wanted to draw would be in the 1135 00:54:14.929 --> 00:54:17.250 optimum position by the end of the tournament. So there's 1136 00:54:17.289 --> 00:54:19.650 a little bit of kind of a working going on 1137 00:54:19.670 --> 00:54:22.309 or a manipulating going on at that point, and certainly 1138 00:54:22.349 --> 00:54:25.199 Sakuraba was one of the great beneficiaries of that. But 1139 00:54:25.239 --> 00:54:27.840 while that all was going on in Brazil, the Gracie 1140 00:54:27.880 --> 00:54:30.320 family said, let's start holding some tournaments. We think jiu-jitsu 1141 00:54:30.340 --> 00:54:32.429 is better than anything. and it'll hold up in a 1142 00:54:32.449 --> 00:54:35.769 tournament format. And let's start submitting guys and showing people 1143 00:54:35.809 --> 00:54:37.989 around the world and also make some money for ourselves 1144 00:54:38.030 --> 00:54:40.010 on pay-per-view. And so they got together with Bob Meyerowitz 1145 00:54:40.070 --> 00:54:43.909 and Semaphore Entertainment and produced tournaments which were 100% legit, 1146 00:54:44.530 --> 00:54:47.010 and the Gracies won. And while that was going on, 1147 00:54:47.219 --> 00:54:50.199 you know, there were the predecessors to Pride and eventually Pride. So, 1148 00:54:50.219 --> 00:54:51.800 I mean, that's kind of the short version, but, I mean, 1149 00:54:51.860 --> 00:54:54.800 MMA comes, I mean, you can Wikipedia it, you can 1150 00:54:54.840 --> 00:54:56.920 read the history of it. It really did sprout up 1151 00:54:56.960 --> 00:55:01.150 from pro wrestling in Japan as... in the Japan culture, 1152 00:55:01.210 --> 00:55:04.590 people wanted to, uh, have that aura of legitimacy by 1153 00:55:04.630 --> 00:55:07.429 bringing in real MMA fighters and eventually paying them to 1154 00:55:07.469 --> 00:55:09.769 do a job so that, uh, you know, if you're 1155 00:55:09.789 --> 00:55:11.170 the very, very top guy, you'd want to bring in 1156 00:55:11.190 --> 00:55:13.670 somebody who won legit fights and then do a work 1157 00:55:13.730 --> 00:55:15.829 fight to show, you know, to build your image up. 1158 00:55:16.210 --> 00:55:20.389 It was just a new form of working. I would say, uh, Daryl, anyway, 1159 00:55:20.409 --> 00:55:22.070 thanks for the question. Hope that helped. But like I said, 1160 00:55:22.090 --> 00:55:24.719 you can go back and listen to the original answer too. And, uh, 1161 00:55:24.739 --> 00:55:27.380 there's some pretty good documentation on there on, on all 1162 00:55:27.400 --> 00:55:31.670 of that. Um, Next question from VIP, and this is 1163 00:55:31.710 --> 00:55:33.449 kind of a follow-up, Bill, on what you said earlier. 1164 00:55:33.750 --> 00:55:36.989 This is somebody who lives in Australia. His name is Greg, 1165 00:55:37.389 --> 00:55:38.579 and he says, I was hoping you could tell me 1166 00:55:38.619 --> 00:55:40.699 a bit more about what the Australian wrestling circuit was 1167 00:55:40.780 --> 00:55:44.099 like when you started in the 60s before moving to 1168 00:55:44.119 --> 00:55:46.340 the States. I know you covered it earlier, Bill, but 1169 00:55:46.780 --> 00:55:48.340 for the sake of Greg, do you have anything else 1170 00:55:48.360 --> 00:55:50.639 you want to add to what you said about the territory? 1171 00:55:50.699 --> 00:55:53.900 And maybe just some things that maybe the average fan, 1172 00:55:53.940 --> 00:55:55.940 who even knows a lot about wrestling in this country... 1173 00:55:56.199 --> 00:56:00.059 wouldn't even think would be different but was about wrestling 1174 00:56:00.079 --> 00:56:02.559 in the 60s on another continent, in another country? Was 1175 00:56:02.579 --> 00:56:05.760 there anything fundamentally different about the way the shows were 1176 00:56:05.800 --> 00:56:06.099 put on? 1177 00:56:07.090 --> 00:56:09.650 Well, they technically were in the Australian days. We used 1178 00:56:09.670 --> 00:56:12.869 to have rounds. But when Jim Barnett came and he 1179 00:56:12.889 --> 00:56:16.210 brought Georgia Championship Wrestling, but he just called it Championship 1180 00:56:16.250 --> 00:56:19.050 Wrestling when he brought it to Australia, and he brought 1181 00:56:19.110 --> 00:56:21.699 Mark Loon and King Curtis and Skull Murphy, it was 1182 00:56:21.739 --> 00:56:24.539 no different than what you were doing in Atlanta, Georgia. 1183 00:56:24.929 --> 00:56:27.780 It was just done in Australia. But the actual Australian 1184 00:56:27.820 --> 00:56:30.960 circuit was different because we wrestled rounds just like they 1185 00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:33.420 did in England. And we wrestled a lot more, not 1186

00:56:33.440 --> 00:56:36.079 so much kicking and punching. If you helped somebody over, 1187 00:56:36.099 --> 00:56:39.579 you had to stand back, let him up. So when 1188 00:56:39.639 --> 00:56:42.309 Barnett came and he brought the American style, it took off. 1189 00:56:42.369 --> 00:56:44.889 Killer Kowalski, man, he was a household name for 10 1190 00:56:44.889 --> 00:56:48.170 years in Australia. And, you know, Skull Murphy and Brut Bernard, 1191 00:56:48.190 --> 00:56:51.570 they were the top tag team. And it was kicking, punching, gouging, 1192 00:56:51.610 --> 00:56:54.280 the same stuff. Gary Hart was the manager. And it 1193 00:56:54.300 --> 00:56:56.679 was the same. Dusty Rhodes and Dick Murdoch was there. 1194 00:56:57.340 --> 00:57:02.059 So we were wrestling in the clubs doing holds and rounds, 1195 00:57:02.420 --> 00:57:05.039 and we would come and do jobs on the TV 1196 00:57:05.059 --> 00:57:07.920 for Barnett in Australia and, you know, in Sydney and 1197 00:57:07.960 --> 00:57:11.070 Melbourne and Adelaide, and they'd fly you all over. And 1198 00:57:11.110 --> 00:57:12.010 it was the same. 1199 00:57:15.309 --> 00:57:18.690 We just got another question by email from Anthony who 1200 00:57:18.809 --> 00:57:21.670 says– I want to know how Bill feels about female 1201 00:57:21.750 --> 00:57:24.210 managers in the wrestling business. Kind of an offbeat question, 1202 00:57:24.250 --> 00:57:28.099 but managers, there were valets back in the day, but 1203 00:57:28.159 --> 00:57:31.500 now there's actually female managers. Maybe kind of parlay that 1204 00:57:31.519 --> 00:57:33.320 a little bit into a broader answer, too, just about 1205 00:57:33.679 --> 00:57:35.659 the way women were treated in the wrestling industry, both 1206 00:57:35.719 --> 00:57:38.539 as wrestlers and as valets in your day, and how 1207 00:57:38.559 --> 00:57:40.929 you felt about them being involved in the industry. 1208 00:57:42.090 --> 00:57:44.090 Well, most of the women worked for Lula back in 1209 00:57:44.110 --> 00:57:48.219 the day. She trained them, she got them booked out, 1210 00:57:48.320 --> 00:57:50.590 and she did most of the good wrestle. The Wendy Richters, 1211 00:57:50.630 --> 00:57:52.889 the Princess Little Doves and all them, they could all wrestle. 1212 00:57:53.849 --> 00:57:56.230 And we would bring them in in the summertime, we 1213 00:57:56.250 --> 00:57:58.329 would bring the midgets in just for the kids who 1214 00:57:58.349 --> 00:58:00.289 were out of school, so you'd give them something different. 1215 00:58:00.730 --> 00:58:02.969 So you'd bring the girls in, you'd bring the midgets in, 1216 00:58:03.639 --> 00:58:05.619 and the valets, like if you had a gimmick like 1217 00:58:05.679 --> 00:58:08.420 Gorgeous George or Gorgeous George Jr. and they had the 1218 00:58:08.460 --> 00:58:12.260 valet mean something, and Adrian Streetworthy had Miss Linda, the 1219 00:58:12.320 --> 00:58:13.599 valet was part of that act. 1220

00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:14.519 But today. 1221 00:58:15.150 --> 00:58:17.670 They have guys bring their sister, their mother, their brother, 1222 00:58:17.750 --> 00:58:20.690 their grandfather to the ring just because they can. Not 1223 00:58:20.730 --> 00:58:23.739 so much for Vince. I'm talking about on the local circuit. Now, 1224 00:58:24.050 --> 00:58:26.739 the ones that work for Vince or TNA, they all 1225 00:58:26.760 --> 00:58:29.179 look more like pole dancers than they do wrestlers. So 1226 00:58:29.579 --> 00:58:31.340 I don't really know what they do with them or 1227 00:58:31.420 --> 00:58:33.659 do I care. But, I mean, it's a whole different thing. 1228 00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:36.460 Do I think any of them could have beat Lula? No. 1229 00:58:36.739 --> 00:58:38.860 Do I think any of them could have beat Randy Richter? 1230 00:58:38.880 --> 00:58:39.219 No. 1231 00:58:39.239 --> 00:58:39.300 No. 1232 00:58:40.570 --> 00:58:42.889 It's all different to come to the ring in high-heeled shoes. 1233 00:58:42.909 --> 00:58:44.219 What the hell are you going to do in six-inch 1234 00:58:44.239 --> 00:58:45.019 high-heeled shoes? 1235 00:58:45.079 --> 00:58:45.340 Nothing. 1236 00:58:46.360 --> 00:58:48.619 So I don't, and like I said, I don't watch 1237 00:58:48.659 --> 00:58:50.460 it today, so I don't really know much about it, 1238 00:58:50.500 --> 00:58:53.880 but it's a little different than when I did it. 1239 00:58:53.900 --> 00:58:56.219 I mean, the women were respected. They could wrestle. Moolah 1240 00:58:56.239 --> 00:58:59.510 could wrestle, you know. And it was a man's sport, 1241 00:58:59.590 --> 00:59:01.750 and always will be a man's sport, but that's just 1242 00:59:01.789 --> 00:59:03.989 how it was. But there was women in it, and 1243 00:59:04.010 --> 00:59:05.250 they made money back in the day. 1244 00:59:06.869 --> 00:59:09.070 This is your last chance to ask Bill Dundee a question. 1245 00:59:09.090 --> 00:59:14.960 The number to call is 646-721-9828. Last week, Bill, I 1246 00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:17.260 had Jerry Jarrett on the show. Obviously, you worked for 1247 00:59:17.300 --> 00:59:20.920 him for a long time. Any thoughts on Jerry? And 1248 00:59:21.099 --> 00:59:22.940 I preface this by saying I've learned a lot about 1249 00:59:22.960 --> 00:59:25.920 wrestling from Jerry. I've done multiple Torch Talks with him, 1250 00:59:26.059 --> 00:59:28.650 spent hours on the phone with him. A lot that 1251 00:59:28.670 --> 00:59:31.570 I admire about him, and I confronted him with some 1252 00:59:31.590 --> 00:59:34.489 tough questions about his reputation as a promoter and when 1253 00:59:34.510 --> 00:59:38.289 it came to payoffs and that kind of thing. What's 1254 00:59:38.309 --> 00:59:40.989 your unfiltered thoughts on working for Jerry Jarrett, the good 1255 00:59:41.130 --> 00:59:43.389 and the bad? What did you respect about him, and 1256 00:59:43.510 --> 00:59:45.829 what would you have wanted to wring his neck over? 1257 00:59:47.750 --> 00:59:49.030 Well, I ain't going to give you a lot of 1258 00:59:49.090 --> 00:59:50.710 the good or the bad of the thing because of 1259 00:59:50.750 --> 00:59:52.929 what that's all in the book. The other thing is 1260 00:59:53.750 --> 00:59:55.090 he brought me here from Australia. 1261 00:59:55.329 --> 00:59:55.550 Good. 1262 00:59:56.150 --> 01:00:01.340 He taught me how to be the booker. Was he smart? 1263 01:00:01.559 --> 01:00:05.199 Very smart. You've known him. I don't know if you 1264 01:00:05.219 --> 01:00:07.219 know him on a personal level, but, you know, it's 1265 01:00:08.119 --> 01:00:13.780 Jerry's way. But they were all alike. So read my 1266 01:00:13.820 --> 01:00:16.559 book and you'll find out exactly what I'm talking about here, 1267 01:00:16.579 --> 01:00:18.519 but that's another story. So if I tell it now, 1268 01:00:18.619 --> 01:00:21.019 I mean, everybody knows what's going on. So, I mean, 1269 01:00:22.159 --> 01:00:24.039 I got along good with him. He taught me how 1270 01:00:24.059 --> 01:00:26.119 to be the booker. When I went to Bill Watts, 1271 01:00:26.139 --> 01:00:29.570 Bill Watts had the two best years he's ever had 1272 01:00:29.769 --> 01:00:33.269 in the history of his territory. And Ricky and Robert 1273 01:00:33.369 --> 01:00:38.590 and the Midnight Express and Jimmy Cornette went there with 1274 01:00:38.820 --> 01:00:41.579 Jerry's blessing. After we go at Poppin and his story 1275 01:00:41.599 --> 01:00:43.780 died a little bit, he kind of said, we stole them. 1276 01:00:43.940 --> 01:00:46.760 Not true. He let us have them. But that's another story. 1277 01:00:46.780 --> 01:00:49.239 You'll get all of the real answers in the book. 1278 01:00:51.710 --> 01:00:53.449 As far as knowing the rest of the business, he 1279 01:00:53.489 --> 01:00:54.269 was very good at it. 1280 01:00:55.400 --> 01:00:59.360 Pay off-wise, do you think he was fair, unfair, terribly unfair? 1281 01:01:00.280 --> 01:01:02.019 Well, when I was the booker, when I was the 1282 01:01:02.039 --> 01:01:05.179 main event, it was very good. I mean, I was 1283 01:01:05.239 --> 01:01:08.360 shown somewhere with a guy writing the book. I was 1284 01:01:08.380 --> 01:01:12.840 shown in weeks 1,600, $ 1, 700 weeks, $ 2, 000 weeks. But, I mean, 1285 01:01:13.199 --> 01:01:14.300 this is back in the 80s. 1286 01:01:14.679 --> 01:01:15.440 Yeah, yeah. 1287 01:01:15.820 --> 01:01:18.719 So, I mean, but if my week was $ 2, 000, Jerry 1288 01:01:18.739 --> 01:01:22.030 Judge was $ 10, 000. But he was the promoter. Yeah. So, 1289 01:01:22.050 --> 01:01:24.550 I mean, you know, they all did that. Bill Watts 1290 01:01:24.610 --> 01:01:27.110 told me a story one time. He run the Superdome, 1291 01:01:27.130 --> 01:01:31.309 did something like $ 300, 000 to $ 200, 000. Some of the boys 1292 01:01:31.369 --> 01:01:34.489 went and bitched about $ 8, 000 payoff for that one night. Now, 1293 01:01:34.530 -->

01:01:35.530 this is back in the 80s. 1294 01:01:36.079 --> 01:01:36.280 Yeah. 1295 01:01:36.679 --> 01:01:38.599 And he told them, boys, if you can go beat 1296 01:01:38.659 --> 01:01:40.880 that somewhere, you just go right ahead and do it. 1297 01:01:41.079 --> 01:01:44.119 Where could you get $ 8, 000 before Vince McMahon did what 1298 01:01:44.199 --> 01:01:46.960 he was doing with pay-per-views and all? We wasn't doing it. 1299 01:01:46.960 --> 01:01:49.780 We was buying people and getting an $ 8, 000 payoff at 1300 01:01:49.800 --> 01:01:50.389 the Superdome. 1301 01:01:51.030 --> 01:01:51.760 Yeah, yeah. 1302 01:01:51.800 --> 01:01:54.500 So how do you, I mean, you know, I understand 1303 01:01:54.539 --> 01:01:58.739 that the promoter makes more money than the, but sometimes 1304 01:01:59.059 --> 01:02:01.760 they screw you. And they all did it. The Crockett's 1305 01:02:01.800 --> 01:02:04.139 did it. Watts did it. Jarrett did it. Nick Goulash 1306 01:02:04.159 --> 01:02:07.179 did it. Roy Wells did it. Never worked for Eddie Graham, 1307 01:02:07.199 --> 01:02:09.639 so I can't tell you how he did. Greg Gagne 1308 01:02:09.679 --> 01:02:11.639 did it. We did a pay-per-view with him. He never 1309 01:02:11.679 --> 01:02:14.010 paid nobody. That's another story that will be in the book. 1310 01:02:14.659 --> 01:02:16.409 That's when Jerry Jarrett said he was going to buy 1311 01:02:16.429 --> 01:02:19.170 the AWA and whatever happened happened. But that, I don't 1312 01:02:19.210 --> 01:02:20.869 think you guys, anyway, you read my book. 1313 01:02:21.550 --> 01:02:24.130 You crossed paths with Greg Gagne and WCW. Did that 1314 01:02:24.210 --> 01:02:26.170 come up? Did you guys just kind of avoid the subject? 1315 01:02:26.190 --> 01:02:27.030 Did you avoid each other? 1316 01:02:28.409 --> 01:02:28.929 Who, Greg? 1317 01:02:29.269 --> 01:02:29.530 Yeah. 1318 01:02:30.150 --> 01:02:32.530 No, we all lived together. Greg Gagne, Mike Graham, and me. 1319 01:02:32.550 --> 01:02:34.809 We had a penthouse suite up there, and we reviewed 1320 01:02:34.829 --> 01:02:37.809 some of the stuff going on. Now, that's another story. Yeah, no, 1321 01:02:37.909 --> 01:02:38.710 I liked Greg Gagne. 1322 01:02:38.730 --> 01:02:38.869 Okay. 1323 01:02:39.329 --> 01:02:42.090 Or his dad did, or whatever happened. I had no 1324 01:02:42.110 --> 01:02:43.349 grudges with Greg Gagne. 1325 01:02:43.449 --> 01:02:43.730 Okay. 1326 01:02:44.389 --> 01:02:44.889 I liked him. 1327 01:02:45.409 --> 01:02:45.710 Yep. 1328 01:02:45.789 --> 01:02:49.760 Still do. Like Mike Graham, too. And we'd get into arguments, and... 1329 01:02:50.280 --> 01:02:52.280 Sometimes they cleared the room one night and they'd do 1330 01:02:52.300 --> 01:02:54.869 the wrestling. I said, I'm not getting in that. That's 1331 01:02:54.909 --> 01:02:56.630 why I have a gun. I ain't getting in that. 1332 01:02:57.010 --> 01:02:59.210 And they'd do the wrestling, drink it, and carry it on. 1333 01:02:59.809 --> 01:03:02.050 I bet their dads were both tough guys and taught 1334 01:03:02.070 --> 01:03:04.070 them to wrestle. So, I mean, I just sat and 1335 01:03:04.090 --> 01:03:04.440 watched it. 1336 01:03:05.409 --> 01:03:06.130 How many times did you. 1337 01:03:06.170 --> 01:03:08.070 As Mike said, if you can't wrestle your buds, who 1338 01:03:08.110 --> 01:03:10.110 can you wrestle? I like Mike Green. 1339 01:03:11.510 --> 01:03:13.880 Bill, how many times did you have to pull out 1340 01:03:13.900 --> 01:03:16.519 your gun in order to restore order, as you put it? 1341 01:03:21.510 --> 01:03:26.050 Savage. I don't know about three. 1342 01:03:26.849 --> 01:03:27.090 Okay. 1343 01:03:28.050 --> 01:03:29.750 Well, it don't matter, but, you know. 1344 01:03:30.110 --> 01:03:31.349 Are those stories going to be in the book, all 1345 01:03:31.369 --> 01:03:31.550 of them? 1346 01:03:32.349 --> 01:03:32.670 Oh, yeah. 1347 01:03:33.070 --> 01:03:35.469 Good, good, good. We have to have you on again 1348 01:03:35.889 --> 01:03:37.849 when that book comes out. We'll promote the heck out 1349 01:03:37.869 --> 01:03:41.579 of it and pry a couple more good teaser stories. 1350 01:03:41.300 --> 01:03:43.699 Out of it. Now, for all you listeners out there, y'all, 1351 01:03:43.800 --> 01:03:47.630 I mean– My opinion of Memphis Heat, I lived it. 1352 01:03:47.630 --> 01:03:50.230 It was more fun living it than it is watching 1353 01:03:50.289 --> 01:03:53.179 it on the movie screen. But if you don't have it, 1354 01:03:53.210 --> 01:03:55.050 you need to get it. You'll see the life story 1355 01:03:55.090 --> 01:03:57.769 of Bill Dundee, Jerry Waller, and Jackie Fargo, and all 1356 01:03:57.809 --> 01:04:00.550 going back from the 90s to the 50s. So if 1357 01:04:00.590 --> 01:04:02.510 you don't have it, go get a copy of it 1358 01:04:02.550 --> 01:04:06.250 because if it's wrestling, it's best. It doesn't get no 1359 01:04:06.269 --> 01:04:06.809 better than that. 1360 01:04:07.349 --> 01:04:10.429 Memphis-Heat.com. I know Bruce Mitchell recommended it, and a lot 1361 01:04:10.449 --> 01:04:14.090 of our listeners respect Bruce's opinion. And I absolutely recommend it. 1362 01:04:14.489 --> 01:04:16.449 I just absolutely enjoy it. I've only watched it once 1363 01:04:16.469 --> 01:04:19.389 so far, and I can't wait to have a– I 1364 01:04:19.409 --> 01:04:21.829 want to show some non-wrestling fans that documentary, too. I 1365 01:04:21.869 --> 01:04:24.429 think it's one of those documentaries you can sit down 1366 01:04:24.469 --> 01:04:28.929 with people who aren't actually familiar with pro wrestling and 1367 01:04:28.969 --> 01:04:30.269 sit down, and I think they'd enjoy it, too. 1368 01:04:30.269 --> 01:04:32.219 90 seconds. 1369 01:04:32.440 --> 01:04:36.320 Anything about the documentary that you would have changed? And 1370 01:04:36.340 --> 01:04:38.559 it's not to say it's not great and that the 1371 01:04:38.780 -->

01:04:41.269 people who put it together– didn't do a better job 1372 01:04:41.289 --> 01:04:42.590 than you would have done in a million years. But 1373 01:04:42.650 --> 01:04:45.570 is there anything, upon watching the final product, that maybe 1374 01:04:45.590 --> 01:04:46.889 you think, oh, I wish there was a little more 1375 01:04:46.909 --> 01:04:49.230 time on that, or they left that out, or maybe 1376 01:04:49.250 --> 01:04:50.050 they got that wrong? 1377 01:04:53.929 --> 01:04:57.079 I think they had Buddy and Mr. Coffee on too much. 1378 01:04:57.300 --> 01:04:59.619 I mean, they never really wrestled Buddy. 1379 01:04:59.719 --> 01:05:02.059 I mean, Buddy ran into my coffee. 1380 01:05:02.400 --> 01:05:05.380 But I don't know why they kept it. They interviewed 1381 01:05:05.420 --> 01:05:07.300 them more than they interviewed me and Lola. 1382 01:05:07.659 --> 01:05:08.800 Yeah, yeah. 1383 01:05:09.420 --> 01:05:11.400 So I would have done this. But maybe when they 1384 01:05:11.420 --> 01:05:13.239 started doing it, they maybe didn't know they could have 1385 01:05:13.280 --> 01:05:15.559 got Jerry Lawler and Bill Dundee. Who knows? They may 1386 01:05:15.579 --> 01:05:17.239 have done that for you, and they paid us. So 1387 01:05:17.420 --> 01:05:19.380 I don't know what the budget was when they started. 1388 01:05:21.079 --> 01:05:22.800 I still don't know what it is now or how 1389 01:05:22.860 --> 01:05:25.340 it's doing. But, I mean, I did it for the 1390 01:05:25.380 --> 01:05:29.059 simple fact that we'll be around somewhere 100 years from now. 1391 01:05:29.119 --> 01:05:31.820 Somebody will say, oh, there's Bill Dundee 100 years from now. 1392 01:05:32.110 --> 01:05:34.150 There'll be a tape or something floating around. You know 1393 01:05:34.170 --> 01:05:36.230 what I mean? You become immortalized when you're on tape. 1394 01:05:36.889 --> 01:05:38.289 Absolutely. Absolutely. 1395 01:05:38.469 --> 01:05:40.449 And then if you write a book, you become mortalized 1396 01:05:40.469 --> 01:05:42.329 because somebody will throw it in a desk drawer and 1397 01:05:42.429 --> 01:05:44.159 it will be there 100 years from now and somebody's 1398 01:05:44.199 --> 01:05:46.519 great-grandkid will read it and say, wow, this is a 1399 01:05:46.539 --> 01:05:51.119 bad wrestler. Them promoters were all thieves. That's what they'll read. 1400 01:05:52.739 --> 01:05:54.570 Well, Bill, we're going to sign off on the live 1401 01:05:54.610 --> 01:05:56.030 portion of the show, but I hope you can stick 1402 01:05:56.070 --> 01:05:57.769 around for just a few more minutes. And I've got 1403 01:05:57.809 --> 01:05:59.750 a few more topics I want to address about the 1404 01:05:59.789 --> 01:06:03.300 documentary from Bruce Mitchell. And I want to thank all 1405 01:06:03.320 --> 01:06:05.039 the people who joined us live for the show today 1406 01:06:05.559 --> 01:06:08.800 and everybody who asked questions and sent in emails. VIP members, 1407

01:06:09.219 --> 01:06:11.659 hold on, because there is more to come for you, 1408 01:06:12.050 --> 01:06:15.809 including a variety of questions from the Memphis, the old 1409 01:06:15.829 --> 01:06:18.489 Memphis station. Really good questions from Bruce Mitchell that he 1410 01:06:18.510 --> 01:06:21.269 sent me earlier today that we'll be getting to. So thanks, everybody, 1411 01:06:21.309 --> 01:06:23.750 and be sure to join James Caldwell and Bruce Mitchell 1412 01:06:23.769 --> 01:06:26.800 for Monday's episode of the PWTorch Livecast in the hour 1413 01:06:26.860 --> 01:06:29.360 preceding Raw. Don't forget to go VIP if you want 1414 01:06:29.380 --> 01:06:33.340 to hear the rest of this interview. Go to pwtorch.com 1415 01:06:33.860 --> 01:06:40.139 slash go VIP. That's pwtorch.com slash go VIP. And we 1416 01:06:40.159 --> 01:06:43.679 would very much welcome you as a member of the site. 1417 01:06:44.159 --> 01:06:46.130 And it's $ 10 a month, and you'll get access not 1418 01:06:46.170 --> 01:06:47.550 only to the rest of this Build on D interview, 1419 01:06:47.889 --> 01:06:50.590 but hundreds and hundreds of other interviews I've done over 1420 01:06:50.610 --> 01:06:53.449 the past 20 years, both in text format and in 1421 01:06:53.769 --> 01:06:56.909 audio format, including... The Vern Gagne interview we referenced earlier, 1422 01:06:56.949 --> 01:06:59.460 the full audio of that from back in, I think 1423 01:06:59.480 --> 01:07:02.239 it was 1989 when I conducted the interview. Bill, thanks 1424 01:07:02.260 --> 01:07:03.519 very much. If you want to say goodbye to the 1425 01:07:03.559 --> 01:07:05.340 live listeners, that's great. Then we'll move on to the 1426 01:07:05.360 --> 01:07:05.659 VIP show. 1427 01:07:05.780 --> 01:07:09.630 All right, folks, appreciate you tuning in. December 1, my 1428 01:07:09.670 --> 01:07:11.329 book will be out of this call. If you don't 1429 01:07:11.369 --> 01:07:14.429 want the answer, don't ask the question by Bill Dundee. 1430 01:07:14.630 --> 01:07:15.070 There you go. 1431 01:07:15.730 --> 01:07:16.949 Awesome. Thanks, everybody. 1432 01:07:31.760 --> 01:07:34.760 Are you a fan of AEW looking to sit back, relax, 1433 01:07:34.900 --> 01:07:37.829 and listen to some like-minded podcasters who share your passion? 1434 01:07:38.449 --> 01:07:40.269 Do you want to be talked off the ledge after 1435 01:07:40.289 --> 01:07:42.489 a segment that has you wondering what the heck are 1436 01:07:42.510 --> 01:07:45.230 they thinking? Do you want to join a discussion on 1437 01:07:45.289 --> 01:07:48.050 what AEW is doing right and what they could do 1438 01:07:48.110 --> 01:07:51.260 to improve? Then join me, Joel. And me, Greg, for 1439 01:07:51.300 --> 01:07:54.539 the All Elite Conversation Club every Friday on the PWTorch 1440 01:07:54.599 --> 01:07:59.119 Livecast feed. Search PWTorch in your podcast app and subscribe 1441 01:07:59.159 --> 01:08:03.449 to PWTorch Dailycast or stream our shows directly from PWTorch.com. 1442 01:08:03.949 --> 01:08:09.489 Find full details on the PWTorch Dailycast lineup at PWTorchDailycast.com. 1443 01:08:18.180 --> 01:08:20.680 All right, Bill. We're now to the VIP After Show 1444 01:08:20.699 --> 01:08:22.140 portion of the show. Thanks for sticking around for a 1445 01:08:22.140 --> 01:08:22.699 little while longer. 1446 01:08:22.720 --> 01:08:24.239 All right. 1447 01:08:24.720 --> 01:08:28.210 All right. Dave Brown, in an interview I did with 1448 01:08:28.250 --> 01:08:31.449 him in the early 90s, talked about the Memphis show 1449 01:08:31.689 --> 01:08:34.489 where the ring broke at the beginning. I don't know 1450 01:08:34.569 --> 01:08:36.229 if that matches up for when you were around or not. 1451 01:08:36.250 --> 01:08:37.270 Do you remember that episode? 1452 01:08:38.989 --> 01:08:40.170 In the 90s? 1453 01:08:40.229 --> 01:08:42.439 No, it was in the 80s when early on in 1454 01:08:42.479 --> 01:08:44.239 the show, the person who put the ring together didn't 1455 01:08:44.279 --> 01:08:46.199 do a good job with it. The ring completely collapsed, 1456 01:08:46.699 --> 01:08:48.840 and this was at WMC, and they had to do 1457 01:08:48.840 --> 01:08:52.170 90 minutes with no matches, just talking and brawling. 1458 01:08:52.170 --> 01:08:55.270 That must have been before me, but I was there 1459 01:08:55.270 --> 01:08:58.630 from 75, and I don't ever remember that happening. 1460 01:08:58.630 --> 01:08:59.579 You know what? 1461 01:08:59.579 --> 01:09:03.060 I may have been off for a little while for 1462 01:09:04.020 --> 01:09:05.779 Ole Anderson when I went to Atlanta. So if it 1463 01:09:05.800 --> 01:09:06.260 was in the 80s, 83, 84, 85, or 86, I 1464 01:09:06.260 --> 01:09:06.819 may have been gone. 1465 01:09:10.020 --> 01:09:12.439 Yep, okay. So, yep, you probably missed that. Because I 1466 01:09:12.479 --> 01:09:14.390 asked Jerry Jarrett about that, and I thought you might 1467 01:09:14.430 --> 01:09:16.050 have better memories if you were part of it. But 1468 01:09:16.649 --> 01:09:17.189 no big deal. 1469 01:09:17.369 --> 01:09:19.270 No, I wasn't part of that. You would remember the 1470 01:09:19.289 --> 01:09:20.869 ring falling down. Yep. 1471 01:09:21.010 --> 01:09:24.590 Oh, yeah, you definitely remember that. Well, very good. I 1472 01:09:24.609 --> 01:09:27.250 want to go to a few questions that Senior Torch 1473 01:09:27.270 --> 01:09:31.489 Columnist Bruce Mitchell emailed me earlier. And one of them, 1474 01:09:32.770 --> 01:09:35.810 one of his questions is, make the case, Bill, why you, 1475 01:09:35.970 --> 01:09:37.609 in your prime, would have made a better king of 1476 01:09:37.670 --> 01:09:39.250 Memphis than Jerry Lawler. 1477 01:09:40.989 --> 01:09:42.569 Oh, I don't know if I would have made a 1478 01:09:42.609 --> 01:09:48.239 bear king. I like being the superstar. I don't know. 1479 01:09:48.699 --> 01:09:51.739 This is how it worked for me and Lala.

He 1480 01:09:51.779 --> 01:09:53.680 was the star and I was the workhorse. I went 1481 01:09:53.720 --> 01:09:56.779 to every TV show. I went to every live show. 1482 01:09:57.199 --> 01:10:00.880 I did everything. Lala would work maybe Memphis, Monday, Louisville, Tuesday. 1483 01:10:00.899 --> 01:10:04.180 He owned 15 or 20 percent of the company. So 1484 01:10:04.220 --> 01:10:06.340 he would very seldom go to Evansville. He may go 1485 01:10:06.380 --> 01:10:08.439 to a spot show. So he liked being the king. 1486 01:10:08.460 --> 01:10:10.640 He liked being off. He liked doing his thing. I 1487 01:10:10.840 --> 01:10:13.989 really enjoyed the wrestling business, and Jerry Jarrett knew that, 1488 01:10:14.029 --> 01:10:15.649 so he said, I'll just work this boy to death. 1489 01:10:15.670 --> 01:10:19.729 But that's another story. So I don't know. I was 1490 01:10:19.770 --> 01:10:21.649 happy with my role at what it was. 1491 01:10:22.770 --> 01:10:26.090 Do you think had Jerry Lawler gone elsewhere, gone into 1492 01:10:26.130 --> 01:10:28.899 something else, gotten injured, whatever story would have driven him 1493 01:10:28.949 --> 01:10:32.319 away shortly after you arrived in Memphis, do you think 1494 01:10:32.340 --> 01:10:36.520 you could have been the central character You know, not 1495 01:10:36.579 --> 01:10:38.520 quote King of Memphis, but the superstar of Memphis, the 1496 01:10:38.560 --> 01:10:40.199 guy who carried the territory. 1497 01:10:40.220 --> 01:10:42.939 It was already over. When he came back, they had 1498 01:10:43.159 --> 01:10:45.840 banished him. Him and Jared had fell out, and they 1499 01:10:45.979 --> 01:10:47.899 told his ass, get out of town. So he left. 1500 01:10:48.340 --> 01:10:50.020 Me and Barnes came in and got over like a 1501 01:10:50.060 --> 01:10:52.949 house of fire. Then George got homesick. He never came 1502 01:10:52.989 --> 01:10:55.970 to stay, so he went home. And then they switched 1503 01:10:56.010 --> 01:10:58.210 me babyface. And, yeah, I could have got over. I 1504 01:10:58.250 --> 01:11:00.750 was already over. We sold the place out in three weeks. 1505 01:11:01.710 --> 01:11:04.439 Did you have a strong preference for working as babyface 1506 01:11:04.479 --> 01:11:04.689 or heel? 1507 01:11:06.229 --> 01:11:09.289 I'd rather be in a heel, but I was cute 1508 01:11:09.409 --> 01:11:13.149 and little and all the right attributes to be a babyface, 1509 01:11:13.170 --> 01:11:17.460 David and Goliath. So, I mean, it worked. So, you know. 1510 01:11:19.359 --> 01:11:23.020 Yeah. Why did you like to work? Why did you 1511 01:11:23.039 --> 01:11:23.680 prefer to work heel? 1512 01:11:24.359 --> 01:11:26.819 It was my personality. It was that back then. I 1513 01:11:26.819 --> 01:11:28.699 had a suit and fight shoes, look at you, or 1514 01:11:29.140 --> 01:11:31.760 cut shoes, look at you, or you know, I, I 1515 01:11:31.779 --> 01:11:35.340 had a huge personality, you know, that's just how I was. 1516 01:11:35.420 --> 01:11:37.590 I'd insult you and say, you know, it's just how 1517 01:11:37.619 --> 01:11:37.949 it was. 1518 01:11:38.909 --> 01:11:43.050 Do you know where the, where the tape live, like the, the, the, uh, 1519 01:11:43.829 --> 01:11:47.989 state and location of any Memphis wrestling tapes that people 1520 01:11:48.029 --> 01:11:48.930 haven't gotten their hands on? 1521 01:11:50.670 --> 01:11:53.810 No, because the, the, the TV is all in and 1522 01:11:54.069 --> 01:11:56.560 YouTube and all of them. And then anybody is going 1523 01:11:56.569 --> 01:11:57.300 to hang out there. 1524 01:11:57.739 --> 01:11:58.020 Yeah. 1525 01:11:58.039 --> 01:12:01.180 So, I think Lala gave them all them tapes that 1526 01:12:01.220 --> 01:12:03.359 they made that show at it. Lala gave them to them. 1527 01:12:03.960 --> 01:12:06.819 Yeah. I'm using them or whatever. 1528 01:12:06.840 --> 01:12:11.039 I'm sure there's a price involved, but no. There's very 1529 01:12:11.060 --> 01:12:14.239 few things out there. I have Jerry Jarrett's first scaffold match. 1530 01:12:14.279 --> 01:12:16.470 I don't think anybody's ever seen it. Have you ever 1531 01:12:16.489 --> 01:12:16.750 seen it? 1532 01:12:17.189 --> 01:12:17.810 No, I haven't. 1533 01:12:18.729 --> 01:12:20.869 Because it wasn't a scaffold match. It was two ladders, 1534 01:12:20.970 --> 01:12:23.229 six foot tall, and he called it scaffold, and he 1535 01:12:23.470 --> 01:12:25.970 caught me into going 30 feet, but that's another story. 1536 01:12:25.989 --> 01:12:32.140 That's crazy. were there any clips that, was there anything 1537 01:12:32.180 --> 01:12:34.979 that you would have loved to have had in that 1538 01:12:35.020 --> 01:12:38.060 documentary that maybe the footage just doesn't exist for? Like, 1539 01:12:38.119 --> 01:12:40.630 is there a great promo, a great angle, a great 1540 01:12:40.689 --> 01:12:44.710 match that you really wish would have been available for 1541 01:12:44.850 --> 01:12:46.600 inclusion in the documentary that you were involved in? 1542 01:12:48.630 --> 01:12:51.210 No, because all mine was great. Never had a bad 1543 01:12:51.310 --> 01:12:54.170 match and never had a lousy promo, so no. If 1544 01:12:54.189 --> 01:12:57.399 you ask Lala, he'll tell you the same thing. I 1545 01:12:57.880 --> 01:13:01.239 really don't know. We did so much stuff an hour 1546 01:13:01.279 --> 01:13:04.130 and a half every Saturday morning for 30 years. You 1547 01:13:04.170 --> 01:13:06.869 can't remember what you did. I've watched things on the thing. 1548 01:13:06.930 --> 01:13:10.649 I said, I actually do that. And you can't remember 1549 01:13:10.949 --> 01:13:14.529 doing them. You did them every week. You wrote the TV. 1550 01:13:14.569 --> 01:13:16.909 You came down there and you did it and you 1551 01:13:17.130 --> 01:13:19.350 executed it and you told everybody what to do and 1552 01:13:19.390 --> 01:13:21.369 not to do. And you had a hell of

a show. 1553 01:13:21.890 --> 01:13:23.750 And sometimes you don't remember what you did. 1554 01:13:24.369 --> 01:13:28.689 Yeah. No, that's understandable. Jerry Jarrett in Memphis Heat, the documentary, 1555 01:13:28.859 --> 01:13:32.770 said that he believes, even in the 70s, that only 1556 01:13:32.770 --> 01:13:34.829 10% of the fans in those buildings thought what they 1557 01:13:34.850 --> 01:13:39.149 were watching was authentic fights without a finish determined ahead 1558 01:13:39.170 --> 01:13:42.310 of time. But the 100% of the fans, when they 1559 01:13:42.340 --> 01:13:45.439 walked in that door, they believed for the two, three 1560 01:13:45.460 --> 01:13:47.640 hours that they were there. And then when they walked 1561 01:13:47.680 --> 01:13:52.649 out of the building, 90% knew what they saw was authentic. uh... 1562 01:13:52.609 --> 01:13:54.909 to a great degree of show that only ten percent 1563 01:13:54.949 --> 01:13:57.289 felt that it was legit part of the budget that 1564 01:13:57.409 --> 01:13:59.869 that's not about right to you i don't. 1565 01:13:59.770 --> 01:14:01.689 Know i've ever thought of it that way i never 1566 01:14:01.989 --> 01:14:04.439 i the reason we call the march we thought they 1567 01:14:04.500 --> 01:14:06.720 all were marked i mean i never thought of it 1568 01:14:06.760 --> 01:14:09.239 that way i mean i i know we did what 1569 01:14:09.279 --> 01:14:12.479 we did and people bought a big season yeah you 1570 01:14:12.520 --> 01:14:14.600 can't put the guy in the face twenty seven times 1571 01:14:14.659 --> 01:14:20.380 in no blood i don't think intelligent people So I 1572 01:14:20.399 --> 01:14:22.550 don't know what the breakdown would be. I never give 1573 01:14:22.590 --> 01:14:24.409 it any thought. I mean, yeah, it was a show, 1574 01:14:24.489 --> 01:14:25.810 and I think a lot of people knew it was 1575 01:14:25.850 --> 01:14:27.489 a show, but it was an exciting show, and they 1576 01:14:27.529 --> 01:14:29.770 came to see it in like two hours. But I 1577 01:14:29.789 --> 01:14:32.310 don't know what the breakdown is. I have no clue. 1578 01:14:32.369 --> 01:14:36.010 Was it important to you that fans thought you were 1579 01:14:36.409 --> 01:14:39.149 having legitimate fights, or what mattered to you was they 1580 01:14:39.170 --> 01:14:42.289 bought a ticket, they enjoyed themselves, and they appreciated what 1581 01:14:42.329 --> 01:14:45.170 I did? Or was it important to you that people 1582 01:14:45.189 --> 01:14:46.529 felt you were really fighting and winning? 1583 01:14:47.810 --> 01:14:49.630 No, nothing to do with that. I just wanted to 1584 01:14:49.670 --> 01:14:53.109 think I was shooting a nice guy. And they did. 1585 01:14:53.399 --> 01:14:55.180 And I was. And I was all in things when 1586 01:14:55.220 --> 01:14:57.699 I switched baby face. So, no, it never, you know. 1587 01:14:58.000 --> 01:15:00.340 But we lived what life was. I mean, there's a 1588 01:15:00.399 --> 01:15:04.319 whole different thing. From the 50s to the 90s, it 1589 01:15:04.359 --> 01:15:06.859 was all different. When Kayfabe was around, you better live 1590 01:15:06.899 --> 01:15:10.000 it that way. And, you know, it was all just different, man. 1591 01:15:10.560 --> 01:15:15.930 Walking into the dressing room was different. Nobody really respects 1592 01:15:16.010 --> 01:15:18.430 anybody today, and I haven't been around Vince's shows. I 1593 01:15:18.449 --> 01:15:21.329 haven't got a clue. But, you know, when the stars 1594 01:15:21.369 --> 01:15:23.109 walked in in the good old days, you knew who 1595 01:15:23.149 --> 01:15:29.449 they were. Today, nobody wears suits. You have to do that. 1596 01:15:29.510 --> 01:15:31.569 But all the football players do. Well, they're getting a 1597 01:15:31.569 --> 01:15:34.800 little scruffy now, too. So it was all a different era, 1598 01:15:34.810 --> 01:15:36.899 my friend. I never saw Lou Thass show up in 1599 01:15:36.939 --> 01:15:38.340 a building without a suit and a tie on. 1600 01:15:38.779 --> 01:15:42.680 Yeah, yeah. Actually, yeah. Johnny Ace, John Laurinaitis, when he 1601 01:15:42.720 --> 01:15:44.859 took over for Jim Ross as director of talent relations 1602 01:15:44.899 --> 01:15:49.260 in WWE, instituted a dress code. And this was about 1603 01:15:49.319 --> 01:15:52.640 eight years ago, roughly speaking. And boy, did the wrestlers 1604 01:15:52.680 --> 01:15:56.239 not like that, especially the women who were not used 1605 01:15:56.270 --> 01:15:58.770 to dressing certain ways. Well, I shouldn't say especially the women. Everybody, 1606 01:15:58.890 --> 01:16:01.510 a lot of the guys, were not happy about having 1607 01:16:01.529 --> 01:16:02.250 to dress formally. 1608 01:16:02.270 --> 01:16:05.189 You got that from Bill Watts, probably. Watts had a 1609 01:16:05.229 --> 01:16:05.689 dress code. 1610 01:16:06.300 --> 01:16:08.300 Yeah, you know, I think there was a generation of 1611 01:16:08.319 --> 01:16:10.600 wrestlers who had, you know, wanted to wear their fanny 1612 01:16:10.619 --> 01:16:15.039 packs and their workout clothes, but WWE decided, you know, 1613 01:16:15.079 --> 01:16:17.260 you guys got a little too slack with that. And 1614 01:16:17.279 --> 01:16:20.000 like you said, Bill, football players, hockey players, I mean, 1615 01:16:20.359 --> 01:16:22.520 NBA players, they wear nice suits when they're in public, 1616 01:16:22.560 --> 01:16:24.550 and it's part of the image of the company. And, 1617 01:16:24.569 --> 01:16:26.649 you know, I mean, I think it's not a bad idea, 1618 01:16:26.810 --> 01:16:26.989 you know. 1619 01:16:28.000 --> 01:16:29.619 I think it's a good idea, but if you go 1620 01:16:29.659 --> 01:16:31.979 live your gimmick, when I dressed to go out, I 1621 01:16:32.010 --> 01:16:34.130 had jeans with all the sparkles on them and all 1622 01:16:34.149 --> 01:16:37.289 the things. People would hand make them in the silk shirt. 1623

01:16:37.909 --> 01:16:39.949 So I look more like a rock star than I 1624 01:16:39.989 --> 01:16:41.670 did a wrestler. If people tell me, what did that 1625 01:16:41.710 --> 01:16:43.369 guy do for a living, they would never have thought 1626 01:16:43.430 --> 01:16:47.010 I was a wrestler, ever, in a bar. Because I 1627 01:16:47.250 --> 01:16:50.130 was 5'7, 210 pounds, cuter than most people standing there. 1628 01:16:50.189 --> 01:16:53.220 I'm usually cuter than the date I dated. I'm not 1629 01:16:53.560 --> 01:16:55.840 saying that, bragging, just the fact. Look at the old pictures. 1630 01:16:55.859 --> 01:16:58.819 See what I'm saying? So I never wanted, I mean, 1631 01:16:58.880 --> 01:17:01.340 I didn't want them to think I was completely phony 1632 01:17:01.460 --> 01:17:05.470 or insult me by saying it. No, I mean, think 1633 01:17:05.520 --> 01:17:06.869 what you like, just don't say it. 1634 01:17:08.470 --> 01:17:11.109 From a traditional standpoint also, not just dress code, but 1635 01:17:11.149 --> 01:17:14.729 what about the handshake tradition where a wrestler walks in 1636 01:17:14.750 --> 01:17:15.409 the locker room? 1637 01:17:16.869 --> 01:17:19.890 That all started after me, man. They shook hands like 1638 01:17:19.949 --> 01:17:22.189 men when I was doing it. That pisses me off, 1639 01:17:22.649 --> 01:17:24.810 not to say that word, but it does when people 1640 01:17:24.850 --> 01:17:25.949 grab your hand like they're. 1641 01:17:25.829 --> 01:17:26.310 An old woman. 1642 01:17:26.770 --> 01:17:28.010 I'd punch him in the face. 1643 01:17:28.789 --> 01:17:29.670 The soft hand grip? 1644 01:17:29.729 --> 01:17:33.310 That floppy handshake, I don't know where that came from. 1645 01:17:33.329 --> 01:17:33.890 Yeah. 1646 01:17:34.010 --> 01:17:34.909 And it sucks, man. 1647 01:17:35.350 --> 01:17:39.760 Yeah. But when you were in Memphis in the mid-' 70s, 1648 01:17:39.430 --> 01:17:41.140 if you walked in the locker room, did you go 1649 01:17:41.149 --> 01:17:43.439 around and give a firm handshake to everybody? Was that 1650 01:17:43.460 --> 01:17:45.859 just kind of if somebody else came in? Was that tradition? 1651 01:17:45.880 --> 01:17:47.859 I never shook nobody's hand unless I liked them. 1652 01:17:48.420 --> 01:17:50.930 Okay. So not everybody who walked in the room didn't 1653 01:17:51.109 --> 01:17:53.560 necessarily have to go around shaking everybody's hand for the 1654 01:17:53.569 --> 01:17:54.979 locker room etiquette. 1655 01:17:55.000 --> 01:17:56.939 Somebody from out of town, like a flair come in, 1656 01:17:56.979 --> 01:17:58.600 flair would shake your hand, but he would shake it 1657 01:17:58.640 --> 01:18:00.760 like a man because he's the champion and he's just 1658 01:18:00.800 --> 01:18:04.720 coming in for the one night. That's different, but, you know, just, no, 1659 01:18:04.960 --> 01:18:06.590 there's a lot of things. I don't know what they 1660 01:18:06.600 --> 01:18:09.430 do today. That flippy floppy handshake, that is terrible, man. 1661 01:18:09.850 --> 01:18:12.350 And it doesn't tell you anything. Now, here's the thing. 1662 01:18:13.130 --> 01:18:15.810 If you're in that frigging dressing room, you have to 1663 01:18:15.850 --> 01:18:17.390 be smart back in the day or you wouldn't have 1664 01:18:17.409 --> 01:18:17.739 been in it. 1665 01:18:18.350 --> 01:18:18.529 Yep. 1666 01:18:19.430 --> 01:18:21.409 See what I'm saying? If you walk in with your bag, 1667 01:18:21.489 --> 01:18:23.579 everybody knows you're a worker. They may not know your name, 1668 01:18:23.619 --> 01:18:25.619 but they know what you do for a living. 1669 01:18:27.819 --> 01:18:29.659 iPhone users, if you're listening to us on the Native 1670 01:18:29.699 --> 01:18:33.720 Podcast app on your iPhone, You can unlock our commercial-free 1671 01:18:33.760 --> 01:18:38.699 versions of our free shows by searching PWTorch in Apple Podcasts. 1672 01:18:38.720 --> 01:18:41.279 You'll see a charcoal gray logo that says PWTorch VIP 1673 01:18:41.340 --> 01:18:43.319 on it. Click on that. There's some free samples of 1674 01:18:43.380 --> 01:18:46.970 VIP shows, and you can unlock the entire VIP lineup, 1675 01:18:46.989 --> 01:18:49.989 which includes VIP exclusives plus commercial free versions of the 1676 01:18:50.029 --> 01:18:53.810 free shows by searching PWTorch in Apple Podcasts and clicking 1677 01:18:53.829 --> 01:18:56.640 on the PWTorch VIP logo. and then activate your three-day 1678 01:18:56.680 --> 01:18:59.159 free trial. And after that, you can become a VIP 1679 01:18:59.180 --> 01:19:01.859 member using your Apple account. It's that easy. Enjoy a 1680 01:19:01.960 --> 01:19:05.600 streamlined listening experience to our free shows and unlock all 1681 01:19:05.640 --> 01:19:08.939 the VIP exclusives, including our post-pay-per-view roundtables, the Wade Keller 1682 01:19:08.979 --> 01:19:12.119 news bulletins, everything with Rich and Wade, the fix that 1683 01:19:12.149 --> 01:19:14.510 I host with Todd Martin, and a variety of other 1684 01:19:14.590 --> 01:19:20.729 VIP exclusives. Just search PWTorch in your Apple Podcast app. 1685 01:19:21.210 --> 01:19:23.810 What would rookies do in the Memphis Territory when a 1686 01:19:23.829 --> 01:19:26.210 new guy came in What was the right thing for 1687 01:19:26.250 --> 01:19:28.250 them to do the first time that they were at 1688 01:19:28.390 --> 01:19:30.869 a building, at a show, at a venue, and what 1689 01:19:30.890 --> 01:19:33.729 were some rookie mistakes in terms of how they conducted themselves? 1690 01:19:35.350 --> 01:19:36.949 Well, I mean, I don't think there was any rules 1691 01:19:37.050 --> 01:19:38.649 set then to do the thing, but, I mean, you 1692 01:19:38.680 --> 01:19:41.159 had enough respect that Rick Clare came in. He was 1693 01:19:41.199 --> 01:19:44.899 the champion. You treated him like one. Somebody that you 1694 01:19:44.939 --> 01:19:46.579 didn't know came in,

and you brought him in just 1695 01:19:46.600 --> 01:19:48.260 for the night, and the place was sold out. You're 1696 01:19:48.279 --> 01:19:50.579 thanking him for the check because he was the other 1697 01:19:50.600 --> 01:19:52.500 half of the sale I had a part of. So 1698 01:19:52.520 --> 01:19:55.229 it was all different. We was based on... what we 1699 01:19:55.250 --> 01:19:58.729 drew that night to get paid. They get paychecks that's enormous. 1700 01:19:59.310 --> 01:20:02.210 To go back to WCW to give it the perspective 1701 01:20:02.229 --> 01:20:06.520 of what I'm trying to say here. Mike Graham, Greg Gunn, 1702 01:20:06.560 --> 01:20:09.300 and Bill Dundee were all getting about $ 150, 000 a year 1703 01:20:09.319 --> 01:20:15.000 in expenses. They were paying Sting $ 800, 000 a year to 1704 01:20:15.039 --> 01:20:18.270 be the champion. How is Sting going to listen to 1705 01:20:18.310 --> 01:20:21.659 you and you getting four times less than he is? 1706 01:20:22.159 --> 01:20:23.529 It used to be in the good old days, the 1707 01:20:23.550 --> 01:20:27.010 booker called all the shots, made more money than anybody 1708 01:20:27.050 --> 01:20:31.949 else on the card, and worked harder. Now, me and Mike, 1709 01:20:31.970 --> 01:20:35.449 we go tell somebody, and then me on white, another 1710 01:20:35.489 --> 01:20:37.489 guy getting a fortune. How are we going to listen 1711 01:20:37.529 --> 01:20:39.750 to you? Hell, I make more money than you. What 1712 01:20:39.770 --> 01:20:43.510 the hell are you? And that's what happened to our business. 1713 01:20:44.270 --> 01:20:45.850 And that's a problem you're in. 1714 01:20:46.600 --> 01:20:49.119 The puppets go pay more than the puppeteers, and the 1715 01:20:49.180 --> 01:20:50.760 puppeteers should always get paid the most. 1716 01:20:51.869 --> 01:20:54.069 Obviously, that's an issue in pro sports, too. You know, 1717 01:20:54.109 --> 01:20:55.890 in the NBA, there's a head coach making a million 1718 01:20:55.909 --> 01:21:00.850 a year or $ 500, 000 a year and players making $ 3, 000, 000, $ 4, 000, 000, $ 5, 000, 000. 1719 01:20:59.979 --> 01:21:01.960 But what they say in the NBA is the coach 1720 01:21:02.000 --> 01:21:03.800 gets to decide whether you get your minutes or not 1721 01:21:03.840 --> 01:21:06.239 and whether you get to pad your statistics or not. And, 1722 01:21:06.260 --> 01:21:08.180 you know, even the booker would have some power over 1723 01:21:08.199 --> 01:21:10.880 the wrestler, even with a pay difference. But it's not 1724 01:21:10.899 --> 01:21:11.319 the same thing. 1725 01:21:11.359 --> 01:21:14.140 Not at WCW. They just went and bitched at somebody 1726 01:21:14.180 --> 01:21:16.550 at the top and they'd tear you off. Oh, don't 1727 01:21:16.600 --> 01:21:18.430 say this to Sting or don't say this to Luger, 1728 01:21:18.470 --> 01:21:20.779 don't say this at all, you know. So, not that 1729 01:21:20.840 --> 01:21:24.819 Sting and I go along great with

Sting. I like him. But, 1730 01:21:24.939 --> 01:21:28.130 you know, he started in Memphis, him and Jim Hellwig. 1731 01:21:30.170 --> 01:21:33.909 Talking about the Memphis days and protecting kayfabe, just going 1732 01:21:33.930 --> 01:21:37.130 back to that for a second, to what extent did you, quote, 1733 01:21:37.170 --> 01:21:40.060 protect the business in the 70s and early 80s, or, 1734 01:21:40.100 --> 01:21:43.560 you know, even through the 80s? Were you confronted a 1735 01:21:43.600 --> 01:21:48.750 lot with friends, family, strangers? media reporters with the question, 1736 01:21:48.789 --> 01:21:52.189 it's fake, isn't it? To what extent did you open 1737 01:21:52.270 --> 01:21:54.649 up about it or not, even friends, family, and then 1738 01:21:54.670 --> 01:21:55.850 a separate category? 1739 01:21:55.909 --> 01:22:00.239 No, your family never said no. Here's the thing that 1740 01:22:00.479 --> 01:22:06.260 I always answer this question. Predetermined, maybe. Fake, never. You 1741 01:22:06.300 --> 01:22:09.020 take a glass diamond and a real diamond, the glass 1742 01:22:09.060 --> 01:22:12.310 diamond is fake. But them bumps and all the things 1743 01:22:12.329 --> 01:22:14.989 that we did, If you're 200 and you're working with 1744 01:22:15.010 --> 01:22:17.470 a guy 270, he drops an elbow and it jars 1745 01:22:17.489 --> 01:22:19.939 you up a little bit. So he's not trying to 1746 01:22:19.979 --> 01:22:23.939 kill you. I understand all that. But the word fake 1747 01:22:24.180 --> 01:22:26.119 is the wrong word, and I don't know whoever said 1748 01:22:26.159 --> 01:22:28.260 that to start with way back when, but it's all 1749 01:22:28.279 --> 01:22:31.779 wrestling fake. No, it ain't fake. Predetermined maybe, but it 1750 01:22:31.819 --> 01:22:32.260 ain't fake. 1751 01:22:32.899 --> 01:22:35.899 Yeah, yeah. It irritates me. I mean, when there's people 1752 01:22:35.920 --> 01:22:38.979 who don't understand anything about wrestling, they're just peripherally aware 1753 01:22:39.020 --> 01:22:42.090 it exists. And you talk about somebody getting injured or 1754 01:22:42.170 --> 01:22:44.220 somebody needing a hip replacement or somebody having a torn 1755 01:22:44.229 --> 01:22:47.199 bicep or concussion syndrome and all kinds of things. And 1756 01:22:47.220 --> 01:22:48.239 they're like, well, isn't it fake? 1757 01:22:49.100 --> 01:22:51.880 Yeah, I've got two of them torn biceps you're talking about, 1758 01:22:51.899 --> 01:22:55.420 and I'm getting my knee done Monday. So I'm going 1759 01:22:55.439 --> 01:22:57.880 into the hospital to have an operation to get it 1760 01:22:57.960 --> 01:23:01.180 done Monday. So, yeah, that's 40 years of use and abuse. 1761 01:23:01.260 --> 01:23:05.039 I understand all that. But you're still banging your butt here. 1762 01:23:05.079 --> 01:23:07.600 It's like football players. You know, they all have pads 1763 01:23:07.659 --> 01:23:09.319 and helmets on, but some of them bumps hurt. 1764 01:23:10.430 --> 01:23:12.090 They get hurt in practice. 1765 01:23:12.270 --> 01:23:13.010 Yes, they do. 1766 01:23:13.369 --> 01:23:16.109 You're not playing to win the game. You're just practicing. 1767 01:23:16.470 --> 01:23:20.529 I mean, you're staying in hard. Bruce Mitchell had another question, 1768 01:23:20.550 --> 01:23:22.729 which is kind of related to this. He says, talk 1769 01:23:22.750 --> 01:23:25.760 about the physical nature of your Memphis Coliseum-made events with 1770 01:23:25.770 --> 01:23:28.119 Jerry Lawler. Whew! 1771 01:23:28.140 --> 01:23:28.420 We were. 1772 01:23:32.979 --> 01:23:35.100 Hell of a workers it looked a lot more brutal 1773 01:23:35.119 --> 01:23:37.689 than it actually was well that's good here at the 1774 01:23:37.739 --> 01:23:39.649 other and it's true and i'm not saying it to 1775 01:23:39.689 --> 01:23:43.770 be you know it's just true with lollipop punch i 1776 01:23:43.789 --> 01:23:45.750 could do it looked like it took your head off 1777 01:23:46.170 --> 01:23:49.270 but on the other hand he never really cared if 1778 01:23:49.289 --> 01:23:51.550 it it hurt a little bit and i didn't either 1779 01:23:52.090 --> 01:23:54.770 and and so we we went into the ring going 1780 01:23:54.789 --> 01:23:57.329 to entertain them people make it as real as possible 1781 01:23:58.050 --> 01:23:59.510 and we'll be the main event next week. 1782 01:23:59.390 --> 01:24:04.180 Again Did you feel Jerry was good at protecting you 1783 01:24:04.279 --> 01:24:05.840 and you were good at protecting him in that way 1784 01:24:06.399 --> 01:24:09.539 on maybe a level above the typical opponent? Or did 1785 01:24:09.560 --> 01:24:11.220 you guys have good rapport in that way in the ring? 1786 01:24:12.199 --> 01:24:13.760 Well, we had good rapport in that way in the ring, 1787 01:24:13.779 --> 01:24:15.819 but you had good rapport with everybody like that because 1788 01:24:15.840 --> 01:24:18.640 here's the thing. If you get hurt, you can't work. See, 1789 01:24:18.659 --> 01:24:22.529 we worked Memphis Monday, Louisville Tuesday, Heaven World Wednesday. Back 1790 01:24:22.550 --> 01:24:27.449 in the day, Jackson Thursday, Tupelo Friday, Jonesboro Saturday night 1791 01:24:27.550 --> 01:24:30.899 and Memphis TV Saturday morning. So that was basically the 1792 01:24:30.939 --> 01:24:33.489 towns that we run for years. So if you got 1793 01:24:33.529 --> 01:24:35.350 hurt on Memphis Monday night and you were the main 1794 01:24:35.369 --> 01:24:37.670 event and two below Friday, it hurt the town, it 1795 01:24:37.710 --> 01:24:41.149 hurt your paycheck. So you didn't do nothing stupid. 1796 01:24:41.989 --> 01:24:47.789 Yeah, yeah. Another question from Bruce Mitchell, which is, I'm sorry, 1797 01:24:47.810 --> 01:24:49.949 just that one. How did you approach your wife at 1798 01:24:49.989 --> 01:24:52.039 the time with the idea that you would put her 1799 01:24:52.140 --> 01:24:55.300 hair up against

Lawler's and she would lose? 1800 01:24:55.319 --> 01:24:57.859 How did I approach that? 1801 01:24:59.699 --> 01:25:02.239 Yeah, how did you come up with that idea? Tell 1802 01:25:02.279 --> 01:25:03.260 us how that conversation went. 1803 01:25:03.279 --> 01:25:05.260 I was there with a bald head, and I said, baby, 1804 01:25:05.979 --> 01:25:07.619 we need to buy us a new house. We've just 1805 01:25:07.680 --> 01:25:10.579 been here a little, not quite a year. And I 1806 01:25:10.600 --> 01:25:12.239 got a lot of money for this head of here 1807 01:25:12.350 --> 01:25:14.189 I had, and it was longer than it was used. 1808 01:25:14.850 --> 01:25:17.090 And you can get the same amount, and we can 1809 01:25:17.130 --> 01:25:20.270 go buy that new house we're looking for. Or prove 1810 01:25:20.289 --> 01:25:21.149 a damn payment on it. 1811 01:25:21.590 --> 01:25:22.270 Yeah. 1812 01:25:22.829 --> 01:25:25.550 We can? I said, yeah. She said, that much money? 1813 01:25:25.609 --> 01:25:26.289 I said, yeah. 1814 01:25:26.630 --> 01:25:26.949 Mm-hmm. 1815 01:25:27.850 --> 01:25:29.130 I said, what do I have to do? I said, 1816 01:25:29.149 --> 01:25:31.449 just come to the TV, attack Lala, and we'll shoot 1817 01:25:31.489 --> 01:25:34.449 the angle, and Monday night, sit in the chair, and 1818 01:25:34.470 --> 01:25:42.399 they'll cut your hair. She said, okay. So, she never 1819 01:25:42.420 --> 01:25:44.779 really got her hair shaved, though, because the people were writing, 1820 01:25:44.840 --> 01:25:47.100 and see, when we did that angle, people thought they 1821 01:25:47.119 --> 01:25:48.920 were really not going to cut the woman's hair, that 1822 01:25:48.939 --> 01:25:50.560 they were going to see Lala get his hair cut. 1823 01:25:50.939 --> 01:25:51.180 Yeah. 1824 01:25:51.279 --> 01:25:53.819 But it didn't. We double-crossed them, not really double-crossed them, 1825 01:25:53.840 --> 01:25:55.479 because there was a haircut in which she'd have been 1826 01:25:55.510 --> 01:25:59.590 the ladies, but They really all thought Lawler was going 1827 01:25:59.609 --> 01:26:02.350 to get his hair cut. The smart marksmen thought they 1828 01:26:02.390 --> 01:26:04.470 were back then. Ah, they'll never cut the woman's hair, 1829 01:26:04.529 --> 01:26:08.149 Dundee won't go for that, neither will the woman. Well, wrong. 1830 01:26:08.649 --> 01:26:12.909 So anyway, he beat me, cut the hair, and we 1831 01:26:12.949 --> 01:26:14.939 went on again. Now I'm mad at him again for 1832 01:26:14.960 --> 01:26:17.500 cutting my wife's hair. Just kept on rolling, brother. 1833 01:26:18.819 --> 01:26:22.180 Bruce also asked, what green undercard guys were you surprised 1834 01:26:22.579 --> 01:26:24.020 who went on to make it big later on? 1835 01:26:25.609 --> 01:26:28.989 I don't really think you're really that all surprised because 1836 01:26:29.029 --> 01:26:30.909 the people in it, when we used them and we 1837 01:26:30.949 --> 01:26:33.350 booked them, they all could work. That was the thing 1838 01:26:33.399 --> 01:26:36.579 they all had. You know, they all had talent in 1839 01:26:36.600 --> 01:26:40.460 their own right. I mean, I never was really surprised 1840 01:26:40.500 --> 01:26:43.279 when anybody made it. We're all in it for the 1841 01:26:43.319 --> 01:26:45.239 same thing, trying to make it to the top. 1842 01:26:45.979 --> 01:26:50.779 Yeah, yeah. So nobody that went through your territory ended 1843 01:26:50.819 --> 01:26:55.289 up becoming a huge– You never kind of shook your 1844 01:26:55.310 --> 01:26:57.869 head and said, that surprised me. I would have never 1845 01:26:57.909 --> 01:26:58.310 called that. 1846 01:26:58.329 --> 01:27:02.729 No, we knew Mark. Me and Mark, we didn't know 1847 01:27:02.760 --> 01:27:04.439 he was going to be the Undertaker, but we knew 1848 01:27:04.479 --> 01:27:07.300 he had something. Stone Cold was one of the. 1849 01:27:09.260 --> 01:27:11.500 He had blonde hair that, in fact, on one of 1850 01:27:11.520 --> 01:27:14.739 their shows now on the Internet, they're showing a match 1851 01:27:14.760 --> 01:27:16.579 for me and Stone Cold when we was in Dallas. 1852 01:27:17.340 --> 01:27:20.079 And the only time that I looked at Austin and 1853 01:27:20.159 --> 01:27:22.399 I knew it wasn't him was when they made him 1854 01:27:22.439 --> 01:27:23.800 the Hollywood blonde in WCW. 1855 01:27:24.760 --> 01:27:25.659 Yep, yep. 1856 01:27:26.300 --> 01:27:27.239 It just wasn't him. 1857 01:27:27.720 --> 01:27:27.979 Yep. 1858 01:27:28.199 --> 01:27:31.079 And then the Stone Cold gimmick, that was him. What 1859 01:27:31.100 --> 01:27:32.899 you see with Austin is what you get, a big 1860 01:27:32.979 --> 01:27:34.079 beer swilling redneck. 1861 01:27:34.720 --> 01:27:38.819 Yep. You talked about Mark Calloway early on. Did you 1862 01:27:39.359 --> 01:27:40.899 look at him and think, this guy's probably going to 1863 01:27:40.939 --> 01:27:41.420 be something? 1864 01:27:42.239 --> 01:27:43.079 How could you not? 1865 01:27:43.159 --> 01:27:45.590 My God, he could jump around like a little guy. 1866 01:27:45.750 --> 01:27:47.670 He dropped an elbow and he was four feet in 1867 01:27:47.689 --> 01:27:50.949 the air. He did all the things the little guys did. 1868 01:27:51.029 --> 01:27:52.829 I mean, you think if just somebody's going to see 1869 01:27:52.869 --> 01:27:55.699 him and do something with him, He. 1870 01:27:55.659 --> 01:27:59.800 Didn't seem to have kind of that X factor that, say, 1871 01:27:59.840 --> 01:28:02.380 a young Hulk Hogan had, where you go, I know 1872 01:28:02.439 --> 01:28:03.819 exactly what we're going to do with this guy to 1873 01:28:03.840 --> 01:28:06.170 make money with him. It just, his look was not, 1874 01:28:06.529 --> 01:28:09.250 you know, it wasn't a typical look of a main eventer, 1875 01:28:09.649 --> 01:28:11.649 but he had all these other traits, and it just, 1876 01:28:11.810 --> 01:28:15.050

isn't it amazing what a great fit this kind of 1877 01:28:15.090 --> 01:28:18.430 weird Vince McMahon kind of cartoon character, how Mark Calloway 1878 01:28:18.470 --> 01:28:22.199 took that in a direction where, I mean, he's, you know, Mr. Wrestling, 1879 01:28:22.279 --> 01:28:25.489 he's as successful as really anybody in uh... in terms 1880 01:28:25.569 --> 01:28:27.369 of longevity the last twenty five years for the last 1881 01:28:27.409 --> 01:28:29.500 twenty years yeah. 1882 01:28:29.300 --> 01:28:31.020 I mean he he he knew what he's going to 1883 01:28:31.039 --> 01:28:33.159 play he was very good at it and i don't 1884 01:28:33.180 --> 01:28:34.899 know if it was just the same thing but i 1885 01:28:34.920 --> 01:28:36.750 think you really think you're going to look at it 1886 01:28:36.770 --> 01:28:38.949 but i don't know what i mean and it worked 1887 01:28:38.970 --> 01:28:42.159 for hope for everybody. And Dusty did the thing. The 1888 01:28:42.180 --> 01:28:44.020 American Dream, baby, the man of the hour, meant to 1889 01:28:44.180 --> 01:28:46.619 sweet to be solid, baby. And he didn't have a lisp. 1890 01:28:46.720 --> 01:28:50.770 He doesn't talk like that in real life. But, you know, 1891 01:28:50.789 --> 01:28:54.350 it worked for him. Big old fat dude, make it 1892 01:28:54.369 --> 01:28:56.930 to the top, so can you. The American Dream, Dusty Rose. 1893 01:28:56.970 --> 01:28:58.210 That's what that gimmick was about. 1894 01:28:59.050 --> 01:29:04.970 Did Dusty have the biggest ego that you were on? 1895 01:29:05.470 --> 01:29:10.090 Oh, God, did Dusty have the biggest ego? Yes. We 1896 01:29:10.170 --> 01:29:13.949 all had them. I got one. I mean, anybody with 1897 01:29:13.989 --> 01:29:16.050 the top of their field has one. I'm sure John 1898 01:29:16.090 --> 01:29:16.750 Wayne had one. 1899 01:29:17.329 --> 01:29:20.729 But there's something about having an ego that drives you 1900 01:29:20.770 --> 01:29:22.520 to be on television that makes you think people are 1901 01:29:22.529 --> 01:29:24.260 going to want to watch you. That allows you to 1902 01:29:24.300 --> 01:29:26.979 cut a promo with the confidence and bravado that will 1903 01:29:27.020 --> 01:29:28.539 cause people to want to pay to see you fight. 1904 01:29:29.069 --> 01:29:30.409 And I get that. You have to have an ego 1905 01:29:30.430 --> 01:29:33.909 to do that. But there's people whose ego goes to 1906 01:29:33.949 --> 01:29:37.840 a point where it becomes obnoxious or you just kind 1907 01:29:37.880 --> 01:29:41.819 of shake your head. You don't admire them as much 1908 01:29:41.880 --> 01:29:43.560 because the ego is just a little out of control. 1909 01:29:43.800 --> 01:29:46.760 And when I ask that, Dusty is notorious for that. 1910 01:29:46.880 --> 01:29:48.520 So I was wondering if anybody else is even in 1911 01:29:48.539 --> 01:29:52.880 Dusty's league when it comes to just being so unabashedly 1912 01:29:52.939 --> 01:29:54.979 full of himself on and off camera. 1913 01:29:56.350 --> 01:30:00.420 Well, Mike Graham, Greg Gagne, me and Dusty used to 1914 01:30:00.460 --> 01:30:02.680 go to the bar damn near every night after we 1915 01:30:02.699 --> 01:30:06.119 finished what we did at WCW. And he was never 1916 01:30:06.180 --> 01:30:08.319 like that with us. Now, yes, he can be that 1917 01:30:08.600 --> 01:30:11.930 with the marks. He can be very obnoxious and all 1918 01:30:11.949 --> 01:30:14.909 the things and go on like he has this big ego. 1919 01:30:15.529 --> 01:30:19.250 And he does have one. But he never said nothing 1920 01:30:19.289 --> 01:30:21.350 stupid to me when we were sitting out drinking or 1921 01:30:21.409 --> 01:30:24.579 Mike or Greg. I mean, we all go along good. But, yeah, 1922 01:30:24.640 --> 01:30:25.960 he doesn't have a super ego. 1923 01:30:27.430 --> 01:30:29.550 Yeah, yeah. And I think with Dusty too, it's just 1924 01:30:29.569 --> 01:30:31.770 kind of the way he booked himself, I think was 1925 01:30:31.810 --> 01:30:34.989 born out of, it seemed like there was an undercurrent 1926 01:30:35.010 --> 01:30:38.979 of insecurity despite this great gift he had for Gab 1927 01:30:39.119 --> 01:30:41.539 and for, and the charisma and the way he carried himself. 1928 01:30:42.140 --> 01:30:43.319 It almost seemed like there was a little bit of 1929 01:30:43.340 --> 01:30:46.069 an insecurity there that caused him to overcompensate in the 1930 01:30:46.090 --> 01:30:48.390 way that he booked other people around him when he 1931 01:30:48.430 --> 01:30:50.090 was Booker. You know, all the bumps and. 1932 01:30:51.930 --> 01:30:54.210 There's a lot of them like that. Jerry Lawler's like that. 1933 01:30:54.270 --> 01:30:56.430 Jerry doesn't care about the whole card. He just worries 1934 01:30:56.470 --> 01:30:59.750 about the main event. Now, see, I literally like booking, 1935 01:30:59.770 --> 01:31:02.789 and I like pulling all the strings on the puppets. 1936 01:31:02.869 --> 01:31:04.850 I wanted them all to dance when I pulled the strings. 1937 01:31:05.149 --> 01:31:08.500 They just like themselves to dance and their opponent, and 1938 01:31:08.520 --> 01:31:11.140 they don't really care about the rest of it. They're there, 1939 01:31:11.199 --> 01:31:13.840 but they're, ah, well, so what? But I did. I 1940 01:31:13.880 --> 01:31:15.600 cared for the first one. I did a program with 1941 01:31:15.619 --> 01:31:19.500 Frank Morrell as the spoiler, and Bobby Fulton, who became 1942 01:31:19.560 --> 01:31:22.670 one of the fantastics, for about 12 weeks in Nashville. 1943 01:31:23.390 --> 01:31:27.109 It was the first match. And when Bobby Fulton finally 1944 01:31:27.170 --> 01:31:29.750 beat him on about the 10th of whatever week it was, 1945 01:31:29.770 --> 01:31:33.100 it was way up there, the roof came off the place. 1946 01:31:33.789 --> 01:31:36.489 Because the people got involved in it. I got involved 1947 01:31:36.569 --> 01:31:38.289 in it.

They got involved in it. It was a 1948 01:31:38.329 --> 01:31:41.670 first-match program, and we were shooting an angle damn near 1949 01:31:41.729 --> 01:31:46.699 every Saturday night on the first match. So I enjoyed 1950 01:31:46.760 --> 01:31:47.819 that kind of stuff. 1951 01:31:47.979 --> 01:31:51.699 Yeah. And, yeah, not every booker who was a star 1952 01:31:52.319 --> 01:31:56.119 enjoyed investing time and energy into creating a new star 1953 01:31:56.579 --> 01:31:58.010 from the undercard. Right. Yeah. 1954 01:31:58.600 --> 01:32:00.609 I didn't mind that. And I hated being on last. 1955 01:32:00.829 --> 01:32:03.109 I was on last with Lawler, and I hated it. 1956 01:32:03.699 --> 01:32:06.050 I would rather, when I booked it, I would rather 1957 01:32:06.119 --> 01:32:10.050 be the first angle right after intermission. The people have 1958 01:32:10.149 --> 01:32:12.149 all went to the little boys' room, girls' room, got 1959 01:32:12.170 --> 01:32:14.109 them a beer, got this, got that, got them a 1960 01:32:14.270 --> 01:32:17.630 piece of popcorn, sat back down, and they've sat and 1961 01:32:17.670 --> 01:32:20.729 watched four boring matches. Now here it comes, the first 1962 01:32:20.829 --> 01:32:23.770 angle off television. The roof comes off the place when 1963 01:32:23.789 --> 01:32:26.949 they see you. But the crime law would sometimes be 1964 01:32:26.970 --> 01:32:31.109 the main event, say we brought in whoever, Yeah, they 1965 01:32:31.149 --> 01:32:32.930 would talk for him. They would talk for Kerry if 1966 01:32:32.949 --> 01:32:36.250 they were doing that thing or whoever. But they're tired 1967 01:32:36.310 --> 01:32:36.710 of it. 1968 01:32:38.470 --> 01:32:38.710 Now. 1969 01:32:38.750 --> 01:32:40.779 So that's the match I used to like doing. The 1970 01:32:40.800 --> 01:32:41.380 middle of the court. 1971 01:32:53.829 --> 01:32:57.409 A weekly VIP exclusive. Every week, I break down four 1972 01:32:57.449 --> 01:33:00.380 or five of the biggest trending topics in pro wrestling. 1973 01:33:00.680 --> 01:33:03.859 I also present my analysis, providing insight that helps you 1974 01:33:03.920 --> 01:33:06.659 understand the story better or see it another way than 1975 01:33:06.720 --> 01:33:09.739 maybe is the controversial take out there. Then I bring 1976 01:33:09.819 --> 01:33:12.239 on a special guest for the second half of the podcast. 1977 01:33:12.439 --> 01:33:15.020 Sometimes it's a wrestler or someone else who works in 1978 01:33:15.039 --> 01:33:17.720 the business. Other times it's a guest analyst who brings 1979 01:33:17.739 --> 01:33:21.000 their specialized point of view on a particular key topic 1980 01:33:21.039 --> 01:33:24.100 in the news. Recent guests have included Bronson Reed from 1981 01:33:24.350 --> 01:33:27.220 WWE and PCO. One of my areas of specialty is 1982 01:33:27.239 --> 01:33:29.720 the Japan wrestling scene, so I often cover a big 1983 01:33:29.779 --> 01:33:34.020 topic from Japan with PW Torch's own Alan Farrell, Kelly Wells, 1984 01:33:34.260 --> 01:33:37.149 and Chris Lansdell. I don't just cover the news. I 1985 01:33:37.159 --> 01:33:39.189 don't just riff on the news or give a standard 1986 01:33:39.210 --> 01:33:42.090 hot take. I'll bring my decades of studying this industry 1987 01:33:42.130 --> 01:33:45.789 and talking one-on-one with dozens of wrestling promoters to each 1988 01:33:45.850 --> 01:33:49.100 week's show so you understand not just what's happening, but 1989 01:33:49.140 --> 01:33:52.079 the context of why. Get ahead of the news. Get 1990 01:33:52.140 --> 01:33:59.840 ahead of the pack with Ratican Worldwide only at PWTorch VIP. 1991 01:34:00.399 --> 01:34:02.079 Tell me a little bit about the differences between when 1992 01:34:02.119 --> 01:34:05.340 Jerry Lawler and Jerry Jarrett would switch off booking in Memphis. 1993 01:34:05.840 --> 01:34:08.619 How were they different as bookers in terms of the 1994 01:34:08.640 --> 01:34:10.699 way they approached things and the way that they executed 1995 01:34:10.720 --> 01:34:11.079 their job? 1996 01:34:13.180 --> 01:34:16.720 Well, Jerry, he always took the summer. He brought in 1997 01:34:16.720 --> 01:34:18.619 30 guys. It's really easy to feed them in the summer. 1998 01:34:18.640 --> 01:34:21.399 You can run down to night sometimes. Or, you know, 1999 01:34:21.420 --> 01:34:25.829 did so. And then when Jared did it, I did it, 2000 01:34:25.850 --> 01:34:28.710 or helped Jared, there would be 10 guys. It's a 2001 01:34:28.750 --> 01:34:31.850 lot harder to book 10 guys for nine months than 2002 01:34:31.880 --> 01:34:34.880 it is to book 30 guys for three months. Mm-hmm. 2003 01:34:35.199 --> 01:34:40.600 Yeah. Was Jerry more into booking the entire card? I'm sorry, 2004 01:34:40.640 --> 01:34:42.810 Jerry Jarrett, was he more into booking the entire card? 2005 01:34:43.199 --> 01:34:45.170 Jerry didn't pay as much. I know Jerry liked to 2006 01:34:45.189 --> 01:34:48.170 bring Frankenstein or the gorilla or something like that. 2007 01:34:48.189 --> 01:34:50.189 Yeah, he did a lot of silly stuff like that. Yeah, 2008 01:34:50.210 --> 01:34:52.569 he always had monsters. He was a summertime booker. He 2009 01:34:52.609 --> 01:34:55.390 liked it and worked for them. Yeah, Jerry took care 2010 01:34:55.409 --> 01:34:55.949 of everybody. 2011 01:34:56.409 --> 01:35:00.590 Yeah, yep. Just a couple more questions here before we 2012 01:35:00.710 --> 01:35:02.569 wrap up. It's been great having you on the show today. 2013 01:35:05.770 --> 01:35:07.689 What was the most lucrative period of your career? 2014 01:35:11.909 --> 01:35:17.729 From about 75 to 80 or 90, because then it 2015 01:35:17.810 --> 01:35:20.850 all started going downhill, and Tennessee Jeff came along, and 2016 01:35:20.939 --> 01:35:25.699 all the things changed. Life was just a-changing. Yeah, yeah. 2017 01:35:26.060 --> 01:35:28.020 But it was good to me. I can't knock Tennessee

2018 01:35:28.039 --> 01:35:30.239 or anything else. I made a fortune for Bill Watts. 2019 01:35:30.319 --> 01:35:33.159 I did 100, whatever it was, three grand a week 2020 01:35:33.199 --> 01:35:36.479 for Ted Turner, or walk around an office and pretend 2021 01:35:36.550 --> 01:35:39.130 I was something I wasn't, because you wasn't allowed to 2022 01:35:39.170 --> 01:35:41.989 do nothing. You just walked around and got your paycheck. 2023 01:35:42.770 --> 01:35:44.350 So the rest of the business has been good to 2024 01:35:44.369 --> 01:35:47.189 me for a guy that's 5'7 and 210 pounds. 2025 01:35:49.329 --> 01:35:50.390 You don't have to answer this if you don't want, 2026 01:35:50.430 --> 01:35:53.970 but between 75 and 85, do you mind saying where 2027 01:35:54.010 --> 01:35:55.750 your income peaked, roughly? 2028 01:35:58.569 --> 01:36:00.430 No, because it was all good. It never really peaked. 2029 01:36:00.470 --> 01:36:03.050 It was all, the Watts was good. You know, Crockett 2030 01:36:03.069 --> 01:36:05.250 was good. And I'll tell you whatever you want to 2031 01:36:05.270 --> 01:36:08.010 call it. Javits was good. Then it wasn't until the 2032 01:36:08.029 --> 01:36:13.010 business started going down. You know, your, and then capacity 2033 01:36:13.050 --> 01:36:14.470 went down. So it was all good for me. 2034 01:36:15.109 --> 01:36:19.710 Was good income just $ 100, 000 to $ 250, 000? Was that kind 2035 01:36:19.729 --> 01:36:21.689 of a typical range? 2036 01:36:21.689 --> 01:36:23.529 $ 250, 000, but yeah, $ 100, 000 to $ 100, 000 and a half was, 2037 01:36:23.569 --> 01:36:25.470 you know, back in that day, that's pretty good money. 2038 01:36:25.869 --> 01:36:26.489 Yeah, absolutely. 2039 01:36:26.510 --> 01:36:29.359 And you're home every night. And gas was 40 cents 2040 01:36:29.439 --> 01:36:31.680 a gallon. The new Cadillac was 12 grand. 2041 01:36:32.260 --> 01:36:33.960 Yeah. Oh, 150 went a long way. 2042 01:36:34.000 --> 01:36:37.819 My first house I told you about was $ 36, 000. Brand 2043 01:36:38.119 --> 01:36:41.560 spanking new. Three bedrooms, two car garage, lounge room, all 2044 01:36:41.579 --> 01:36:45.699 the things, two bathrooms. $ 36, 000. I have a Cadillac sitting 2045 01:36:45.739 --> 01:36:47.989 outside here. The frigging Cadillac was 40 grand. 2046 01:36:49.310 --> 01:36:51.630 What do you think Jerry Jarrett's best year was, making 2047 01:36:51.649 --> 01:36:53.970 money as a promoter? I haven't got a clue. 2048 01:36:54.069 --> 01:36:55.689 I don't know how much he stole. I don't have 2049 01:36:55.729 --> 01:36:57.859 a frigging clue. I know he built a great big 2050 01:36:57.920 --> 01:37:01.100 house that made Lawland Lance Russell nuts. But anyway, that's 2051 01:37:01.159 --> 01:37:02.380 another story. That's in the book. 2052 01:37:03.180 --> 01:37:04.000 Yeah, yep. 2053 01:37:04.800 --> 01:37:07.600 One more question. You never knew what he would make. Well, 2054 01:37:07.619 --> 01:37:08.159 it doesn't matter. 2055 01:37:10.159 --> 01:37:11.829 Well, Jerry told me he was willing to open up 2056 01:37:11.850 --> 01:37:13.970 the book to the wrestlers, let them look at the ledger, 2057 01:37:14.590 --> 01:37:15.529 and show. 2058 01:37:15.569 --> 01:37:18.609 Who did he ever open them up to? He didn't 2059 01:37:18.670 --> 01:37:21.090 even look at Jerry Lawland. That's how they all fell out. 2060 01:37:21.369 --> 01:37:23.350 Don't get me started here, brother. I get hot in 2061 01:37:23.390 --> 01:37:24.609 a minute here when you start all that. 2062 01:37:25.100 --> 01:37:26.560 I should pull those books out, yeah. 2063 01:37:26.760 --> 01:37:30.319 And I know what he did. That's why Jared Lawler 2064 01:37:30.359 --> 01:37:33.039 tried to steal the territory, because he promised him 10 2065 01:37:33.039 --> 01:37:34.869 more percent and said he forgot to give it to him. 2066 01:37:35.100 --> 01:37:36.770 How do you forget to give a man what you 2067 01:37:36.779 --> 01:37:38.649 promised him? Yeah, yeah. 2068 01:37:39.189 --> 01:37:40.810 Yeah, I think Jerry said he, like, you know, he 2069 01:37:40.829 --> 01:37:44.310 took X percent off the top for himself after expenses, 2070 01:37:44.350 --> 01:37:45.670 and he would open up the books and pay, he 2071 01:37:45.890 --> 01:37:48.649 paid the rest, and the main guy got the most. 2072 01:37:48.850 --> 01:37:51.130 He had his accountant. You never saw the books. You 2073 01:37:51.149 --> 01:37:51.760 got a check. 2074 01:37:52.310 --> 01:37:57.300 Yeah, yeah. what do you think you would have done 2075 01:37:57.899 --> 01:37:59.100 if you hadn't become a pro wrestler? 2076 01:38:00.239 --> 01:38:02.060 I would never give it no thought to start off 2077 01:38:02.100 --> 01:38:03.890 in the circus. I've been staying in the circus and 2078 01:38:03.939 --> 01:38:05.270 back in the circus now. As a matter of fact, 2079 01:38:05.289 --> 01:38:07.270 I worked for Cold Brothers in nine months of the year. 2080 01:38:07.529 --> 01:38:11.770 But anyway, I don't know. I like the circus, but 2081 01:38:12.550 --> 01:38:14.170 I never thought I would never make it as a 2082 01:38:14.189 --> 01:38:15.430 pro wrestler. Yeah. 2083 01:38:17.090 --> 01:38:20.510 So what are you doing in the circus now? 2084 01:38:21.869 --> 01:38:22.609 Locker and director. 2085 01:38:23.649 --> 01:38:26.479 Cool. How many shows are you part of? Tell me 2086 01:38:26.500 --> 01:38:27.119 a little more about that. 2087 01:38:27.479 --> 01:38:31.140 We start in March. and go all the way at 2088 01:38:31.149 --> 01:38:33.239 the end of November, and we leave the land, Florida, 2089 01:38:33.260 --> 01:38:34.659 and go all the way up to New York and 2090 01:38:34.699 --> 01:38:36.600 turn around and come back down. But we never leave 2091 01:38:36.619 --> 01:38:37.819 the 95 corridor. 2092 01:38:38.399 --> 01:38:39.180 Yeah. 2093 01:38:39.380 --> 01:38:42.340 And it takes nine months. So you're out there

nine 2094 01:38:42.359 --> 01:38:45.859 months all by your lonesome. And you just say the 2095 01:38:45.899 --> 01:38:49.180 word circus instead of wrestling. Same thing. You come out there. 2096 01:38:49.909 --> 01:38:51.949 You're trying to get people into a tent instead of 2097 01:38:51.970 --> 01:38:54.100 into a building to watch wrestling. You want them to 2098 01:38:54.140 --> 01:38:58.399 watch elephants and tigers and clowns and motorcycles and all 2099 01:38:58.420 --> 01:39:00.159 kinds of things. 2100 01:39:00.500 --> 01:39:02.970 Are there stars of the circus, like Jerry Lawler and 2101 01:39:02.989 --> 01:39:04.090 you were stars of Memphis? 2102 01:39:04.189 --> 01:39:09.449 Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, do you remember Gunther Williams when 2103 01:39:09.489 --> 01:39:12.970 he worked for Clyde Beatty? I've been for Ringling Brothers. 2104 01:39:12.989 --> 01:39:15.329 He had all of the tigers and the leopards and 2105 01:39:15.390 --> 01:39:17.289 all the things. He was the star. He was the best, 2106 01:39:17.390 --> 01:39:19.649 one of the best animal trailers ever. 2107 01:39:20.069 --> 01:39:20.369 Yeah. 2108 01:39:21.289 --> 01:39:24.869 Gunther Williams. So, you know, he was the star. Then 2109 01:39:24.909 --> 01:39:26.930 you have the guys that have the elephants and you 2110 01:39:26.970 --> 01:39:28.850 have the tiger. It all depends what you like. Some 2111 01:39:28.890 --> 01:39:32.600 people think different things of stars. The flying trapeze. I 2112 01:39:32.619 --> 01:39:35.760 love the trapeze. I think they're stars in their own right. 2113 01:39:36.170 --> 01:39:38.090 And I like the cat acts. I like the guys 2114 01:39:38.109 --> 01:39:39.649 that teach the cats, you know. And I did the 2115 01:39:39.689 --> 01:39:43.710 elephants in Australia, so I really love elephants. So, you know, yeah, 2116 01:39:43.729 --> 01:39:44.369 we have stars. 2117 01:39:45.630 --> 01:39:48.560 Yep, very cool, very cool. Well, Bill, thanks so much. 2118 01:39:48.920 --> 01:39:52.340 Your time is very generous here, 90 minutes, spending time 2119 01:39:52.359 --> 01:39:56.300 talking to our listeners and answering a lot of our questions. 2120 01:39:56.340 --> 01:39:58.300 So it's just been a pleasure. I've enjoyed the heck 2121 01:39:58.319 --> 01:40:01.680 of talking to you and talking about everything from the 2122 01:40:01.720 --> 01:40:06.630 circus to the circus WCW days, all the way back 2123 01:40:06.670 --> 01:40:09.350 to Memphis, and of course the Memphis Heat documentary. I, again, 2124 01:40:09.630 --> 01:40:12.470 just can't stress enough. I just think people who like 2125 01:40:12.520 --> 01:40:15.039 pro wrestling need to order the Memphis Heat documentary. Bill, 2126 01:40:15.060 --> 01:40:17.060 you were a big part of that. Just a couple 2127 01:40:17.100 --> 01:40:19.039 final questions, actually, on the documentary, just so we kind 2128 01:40:19.060 --> 01:40:20.500 of end on that note, because I know you want 2129 01:40:20.539 --> 01:40:22.960 people to order this documentary, too, and it's a good 2130 01:40:22.979 --> 01:40:25.739 chronicle of what you did and some of your peak years. 2131 01:40:26.109 --> 01:40:29.090 How did the process work? Jerry Jarrett said he turned, 2132 01:40:29.149 --> 01:40:30.909 I think he said he turned them down right away, 2133 01:40:31.270 --> 01:40:33.689 and then you ended up encouraging him to participate in 2134 01:40:34.270 --> 01:40:37.850 Tell me about the actual documentary people, how they approached you, 2135 01:40:37.909 --> 01:40:39.489 and why you decided to participate. 2136 01:40:42.090 --> 01:40:46.029 Just like I told you before, they had already basically 2137 01:40:46.100 --> 01:40:49.420 made it, so it wasn't nothing I could do to 2138 01:40:49.460 --> 01:40:53.300 stop it. Jerry Lawler sold them all the stuff for 10%, 2139 01:40:53.300 --> 01:40:56.420 gave them whatever he was supposed to get, gave them 2140 01:40:56.460 --> 01:40:59.779 most of the footage. They put it together, so it 2141 01:40:59.819 --> 01:41:03.739 was already together. So now they wanted me, Lawler, and 2142 01:41:03.779 --> 01:41:06.189 Calhoun to come down to the Coliseum one day, and 2143 01:41:06.199 --> 01:41:07.989 they paid us a set fee to go down there. 2144 01:41:08.550 --> 01:41:10.050 So I wasn't going to go, and I thought, well, 2145 01:41:10.069 --> 01:41:14.270 I ain't doing this. Then I got to thinking, just ego, 2146 01:41:14.329 --> 01:41:16.890 I guess, or whatever. I have every tape that they 2147 01:41:16.909 --> 01:41:20.479 have in my house. I can show you that documentary 2148 01:41:21.079 --> 01:41:24.880 in my house, because I have every tape that they have, 2149 01:41:25.399 --> 01:41:28.119 and some more. So anyway, I thought, well, this will 2150 01:41:28.159 --> 01:41:31.489 be great. It'll be on a documentary. And 100 years 2151 01:41:31.550 --> 01:41:33.569 from now, somebody will put one up and pull it 2152 01:41:33.670 --> 01:41:37.489 out and say, this is Memphis Wrestling 100 years ago. 2153 01:41:37.810 --> 01:41:40.899 And I'll be part of it. So that was nice. Well, hell, 2154 01:41:40.939 --> 01:41:42.680 I'm going to go do that interview. And off I 2155 01:41:42.720 --> 01:41:45.800 went and did it. Yeah. And that's what you see 2156 01:41:45.840 --> 01:41:48.880 is walking around the thing and they're interviewing us today. 2157 01:41:51.060 --> 01:41:53.479 And a final question on your book. How long have 2158 01:41:53.520 --> 01:41:55.590 you been working on it and what made you decide 2159 01:41:55.609 --> 01:41:56.069 to write a book? 2160 01:41:57.210 --> 01:41:58.750 Because I read a bunch of the other ones and 2161 01:41:58.770 --> 01:42:04.819 they're complete. Nothing's, you know, just nothing. They're not telling 2162 01:42:04.859 --> 01:42:06.819 the truth. They ain't saying this and that. I mean, 2163 01:42:06.859 --> 01:42:09.420 nobody really knocked nobody. You don't knock

anybody if you 2164 01:42:09.460 --> 01:42:10.920 tell them the truth. But if you tell them the truth, 2165 01:42:10.960 --> 01:42:12.319 you can't get married because it's the truth. 2166 01:42:12.720 --> 01:42:14.180 Yeah. 2167 01:42:14.239 --> 01:42:15.960 Who have you read? You know, you talk to some 2168 01:42:15.979 --> 01:42:17.960 of them and all the other ones. Dutch, I said, Dutch, 2169 01:42:17.979 --> 01:42:19.930 did you? He said, what does my book say, Bill? 2170 01:42:20.409 --> 01:42:22.930 I said, the wrestling according to Dutch. He said, okay, 2171 01:42:22.970 --> 01:42:24.989 you write your book anyhow you like. So what's he 2172 01:42:25.029 --> 01:42:29.350 telling you? He knows what it's about, you know. So, 2173 01:42:29.369 --> 01:42:31.949 you know, I've read part of his. And one of 2174 01:42:31.970 --> 01:42:34.989 the other ones I like is Dan Tambunos, Henry Wimple, 2175 01:42:35.010 --> 01:42:38.520 who was up there in his books. I read part 2176 01:42:38.560 --> 01:42:41.699 of his. So mine, I'm just telling you the two 2177 01:42:41.760 --> 01:42:44.699 stories of how I saw it in Memphis. And you 2178 01:42:44.739 --> 01:42:46.260 saw the sheet that he sent you. 2179 01:42:46.680 --> 01:42:48.760 I wasn't able to tell. Did you like Dutch's book? 2180 01:42:48.779 --> 01:42:50.520 Was he one of them from what you've read that 2181 01:42:50.539 --> 01:42:51.199 you thought was truthful? 2182 01:42:53.840 --> 01:42:56.149 What did I just say? I called him up and said, hey, man, 2183 01:42:56.159 --> 01:42:58.489 you start everybody in this business? He said, what does 2184 01:42:58.550 --> 01:43:01.289 it say? The name of my book is Wrestling According 2185 01:43:01.310 --> 01:43:03.210 to Dutch. So he's telling you that he doesn't care 2186 01:43:03.250 --> 01:43:03.970 what you think of it? 2187 01:43:04.630 --> 01:43:08.449 That's what I was trying to ascertain from what you said, yeah. 2188 01:43:08.689 --> 01:43:10.250 What other books have you read that you didn't like 2189 01:43:10.270 --> 01:43:12.430 that inspired you to write your own? 2190 01:43:13.670 --> 01:43:15.449 Well, I didn't read any. I just read parts of them. 2191 01:43:15.470 --> 01:43:17.729 There's one part of it that you just think, well, 2192 01:43:17.750 --> 01:43:21.640 this is not right. I was there. So I was there. And, 2193 01:43:21.899 --> 01:43:24.819 you know, so I'll give him my version. You know, 2194 01:43:24.859 --> 01:43:27.140 I'm sure we all have them. I mean, Jared has 2195 01:43:27.180 --> 01:43:29.310 his version of the split with Lawler and Lance, and 2196 01:43:29.390 --> 01:43:31.869 I have mine. And I was there. I had nothing 2197 01:43:31.909 --> 01:43:33.710 in it, so I just sat and observed. So you 2198 01:43:33.729 --> 01:43:36.670 tell me who's paying attention more, me or them. We're 2199 01:43:36.729 --> 01:43:39.069 all trying to figure one out and not give nothing away. 2200 01:43:39.909 --> 01:43:41.890 Jerry

Lawler's trying to get as much as he can 2201 01:43:41.930 --> 01:43:44.829 from Jerry Jarrett, and Jerry Jarrett's trying to give him nothing. 2202 01:43:45.130 --> 01:43:47.390 And that's basically what that meeting was about. Then they 2203 01:43:47.449 --> 01:43:50.529 agreed on something. and everybody else was flung under the bus. 2204 01:43:50.909 --> 01:43:51.489 Whose story? 2205 01:43:52.409 --> 01:43:56.170 Well, I think those who watched the documentary are going 2206 01:43:56.189 --> 01:43:58.729 to be more interested in reading your book because the documentary, 2207 01:43:59.130 --> 01:44:02.380 to me, left me wanting more. It's not even a criticism. 2208 01:44:02.420 --> 01:44:04.760 It's more of a compliment, I guess. I wanted that 2209 01:44:04.819 --> 01:44:07.880 documentary to be six hours, and I think you could 2210 01:44:07.899 --> 01:44:10.819 have done it easily. There were so many things even 2211 01:44:10.939 --> 01:44:13.489 I know about, and I didn't start seeing Memphis Wrestling 2212 01:44:13.510 --> 01:44:14.720 until videotape trading in the 80s. 2213 01:44:15.880 --> 01:44:18.840 Yeah, but they may not have the six hours. 2214 01:44:18.560 --> 01:44:19.039 To put on it. 2215 01:44:19.779 --> 01:44:24.899 Well, even the extended interviews, just more narrative with photos, 2216 01:44:24.939 --> 01:44:27.520 talking in depth about some stories. I mean, I know 2217 01:44:27.659 --> 01:44:30.279 I've interviewed Lance Russell and Jerry Lawler and Dave Brown 2218 01:44:30.319 --> 01:44:33.920 and Dutch Mantel. In your book, I'm sure there'd be 2219 01:44:33.960 --> 01:44:36.859 more stories you could have extracted and included. But you 2220 01:44:37.350 --> 01:44:39.270 want to leave people wanting more with the documentary. There's 2221 01:44:39.310 --> 01:44:41.170 no way in an hour and a half you can 2222 01:44:41.189 --> 01:44:45.899 tell every complete story. But I like the... I like 2223 01:44:45.920 --> 01:44:47.819 the idea that you've got a book coming out and 2224 01:44:48.460 --> 01:44:50.760 it's going to tell a lot more stories in more 2225 01:44:50.779 --> 01:44:53.180 detail that we're kind of left with just a teaser 2226 01:44:53.239 --> 01:44:55.510 of during the documentary. Right. 2227 01:44:55.590 --> 01:44:58.430 And I understand that. And nobody's going to say nothing 2228 01:44:58.470 --> 01:45:01.670 about silly things that we did as far as, you know, 2229 01:45:02.010 --> 01:45:04.670 wild whatever. You know what I mean? We've all did 2230 01:45:04.909 --> 01:45:06.529 the silly things that we shouldn't have done. So I'm 2231 01:45:06.550 --> 01:45:08.409 not talking about that end of our life. I'm just 2232 01:45:08.430 --> 01:45:10.930 talking about if somebody screwed you on a payoff or 2233 01:45:10.970 --> 01:45:12.489 did this or did that, that's what we did. 2234 01:45:13.069 --> 01:45:13.210 So. 2235 01:45:13.810 --> 01:45:15.680 By the way, it'll be at December 1. I hope 2236 01:45:15.720 --> 01:45:18.720 everybody buys it, and I've enjoyed this interview, and my son-in-law, 2237 01:45:18.760 --> 01:45:20.920 Bobby Eaton, he wants to go eat, so. 2238 01:45:21.619 --> 01:45:23.979 Perfect timing, then. Thanks, Bill, so much, and when the 2239 01:45:24.020 --> 01:45:25.510 book comes out, I would love to have you on again, 2240 01:45:25.550 --> 01:45:26.689 so I'll be in touch to see if we can 2241 01:45:26.710 --> 01:45:27.149 make that work. 2242 01:45:27.770 --> 01:45:29.470 Brother, I've got your stuff, so I'll keep in touch 2243 01:45:29.510 --> 01:45:31.710 with you in December. The first we're shooting for, and 2244 01:45:32.130 --> 01:45:34.380 I think the readers will enjoy it if they like 2245 01:45:34.439 --> 01:45:35.659 Bill Dundee and Memphis Wrestling. 2246 01:45:36.189 --> 01:45:36.550 Excellent. 2247 01:45:36.569 --> 01:45:39.390 Bill, superstar Bill Dundee, everybody. It's been a pleasure. Thanks 2248 01:45:39.569 --> 01:45:41.869 on behalf of all the listeners for joining us, Bill. 2249 01:45:42.310 --> 01:45:44.449 And until next time, on behalf of Bill Dundee, this 2250 01:45:44.569 --> 01:46:08.279 is PWTorch editor Wade Keller signing off. Your time is valuable. 2251 01:46:08.460 --> 01:46:11.520 Go VIP and listen to our shows commercial free. A 2252 01:46:11.560 --> 01:46:16.500 nice streamlined listening experience. pwtorch.com slash go VIP for full 2253 01:46:16.520 --> 01:46:19.279 details on a commercial free listening experience. And with a 2254 01:46:19.300 --> 01:46:22.560 full VIP membership, you can create custom feeds for individual 2255 01:46:22.619 --> 01:46:25.590 shows or groups of shows by theme and also unlock 2256 01:46:25.600 --> 01:46:28.939 nearly four decades of archives and access our ad free 2257 01:46:28.979 --> 01:46:34.000 website with VIP exclusive content. pwtorch.com slash govip. Your time 2258 01:46:34.039 --> 01:46:35.779 is valuable, and that's one of the reasons we offer 2259 01:46:35.880 --> 01:46:41.279 VIP membership, pwtorch.com slash govip. You can participate in the 2260 01:46:41.300 --> 01:46:44.750 Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast by emailing your question or 2261 01:46:44.789 --> 01:46:49.550 topic to wadekellerpodcast at gmail.com. You can also participate in 2262 01:46:49.569 --> 01:46:53.829 the Wade Keller Post Shows by emailing wadekellerpostshow at gmail.com 2263 01:46:54.060 --> 01:46:57.779 during or right after Raw, Dynamite, or SmackDown. Let your voice, 2264 01:46:57.819 --> 01:47:00.420 let your opinions be heard on our shows via email, 2265 01:47:00.579 --> 01:47:05.479 wadekellerpodcast at gmail.com for the flagship and wadekellerpostshow at gmail.com 2266 01:47:05.659 --> 01:47:09.270 for our post shows. It's next-level coverage that you come 2267 01:47:09.310 --> 01:47:12.670 to expect from the PW Torch brand. No AI, no 2268 01:47:12.770 --> 01:47:17.390 rookie perspectives, no unfounded rumors, no clickbait, no deceptive headlines, 2269

01:47:17.630 --> 01:47:22.029 just high-quality writing, breaking news, and fascinating flashbacks every day 2270 01:47:22.170 --> 01:47:25.840 at pwtorch.com. Pull yourself away from the vacuous social media 2271 01:47:25.859 --> 01:47:27.939 experience that I know many of you regret once you 2272 01:47:28.100 --> 01:47:30.439 get lost in it for minutes, if not hours at 2273 01:47:30.460 --> 01:47:34.359 a time, and settle in for high-quality PW Torch-branded wrestling coverage. 2274 01:47:36.020 --> 01:47:38.119 Admit it, you love Nick Barbatti when he co-hosts with 2275 01:47:38.159 --> 01:47:39.920 me on the Wade Keller Post Shows. Well, now you 2276 01:47:39.939 --> 01:47:42.210 can listen to him every week on the Nicky's Club, 2277 01:47:42.270 --> 01:47:45.310 a VIP exclusive podcast. Here's Nick to tell you more. 2278 01:47:45.430 --> 01:47:47.869 Hey, wrestling fans. It's Nick Barbatti, and I'm back with 2279 01:47:47.890 --> 01:47:49.970 the Nicky's Club, the place where the family of Nicky's 2280 01:47:50.029 --> 01:47:52.949 comes together for big laughs and sharp takes on WWE. 2281 01:47:53.029 --> 01:47:55.939 From WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns, I got you covered. 2282 01:47:56.100 --> 01:47:58.300 The Nicky's Club, where the wrestling feels like the coolest 2283 01:47:58.319 --> 01:47:58.899 club in town. 2284 01:47:59.119 --> 01:48:00.920 Nick Barbatti wants to be part of your pro wrestling 2285 01:48:00.960 --> 01:48:05.270 life every week, so... Why not let him? GoVIP. PWTorch.com 2286 01:48:05.550 --> 01:48:08.470 slash GoVIP for full details on signing up. We're compatible 2287 01:48:08.489 --> 01:48:11.789 with Patreon, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and just about any other 2288 01:48:11.949 --> 01:48:13.949 iOS or Android app out there. You can also stream 2289 01:48:13.970 --> 01:48:16.970 directly from our ad-free VIP website. The Nicky's Club, waiting 2290 01:48:16.989 --> 01:48:21.689 for you every week at PWTorch VIP. Did you know 2291 01:48:21.729 --> 01:48:25.100 that you can enjoy commercial-free versions of all of your 2292 01:48:25.119 --> 01:48:28.720 favorite Wade Keller podcasts and PWTorch Daily Casts on Spotify? 2293 01:48:28.840 --> 01:48:33.479 Just go to patreon.com, search PWTorch, and subscribe to a 2294 01:48:33.500 --> 01:48:35.960 VIP membership tier. You get a seven-day free trial, by 2295 01:48:36.000 --> 01:48:37.659 the way, to kick the tires a bit and see 2296 01:48:37.680 --> 01:48:40.430 if you like the service. And then sync it with Spotify, 2297 01:48:40.529 --> 01:48:43.350 and you can listen to commercial-free versions of our free shows, 2298 01:48:43.390 --> 01:48:45.850 like the Wade Keller Post Shows, the Wade Keller Podcast Flagship, 2299 01:48:46.210 --> 01:48:49.229 our flashbacks, and also the PWTorch Daily Cast lineup. Again, 2300 01:48:49.489 --> 01:48:53.239 all commercial-free, a nice streamlined listening experience. But with third-tier membership, 2301 01:48:53.279 --> 01:48:56.659 you can also unlock all the VIP podcasts, including Everything 2302 01:48:56.680 --> 01:48:58.399 with Rich and Wade, The Fix with Todd Martin that 2303 01:48:58.420 --> 01:49:01.180 I host with Todd every week, the Wade Keller News Bulletin, 2304 01:49:01.319 --> 01:49:05.960 Post Pay-Per-View Roundtables, and an array of other VIP-exclusive podcasts 2305 01:49:05.979 --> 01:49:08.970 with different hosts and different themes. Check out the lineup. 2306 01:49:09.369 --> 01:49:13.810 Go to Patreon and search PWTorch and subscribe and sync 2307 01:49:13.829 --> 01:49:16.609 it up with Spotify or stay within the Patreon ecosystem. 2308 01:49:17.050 --> 01:49:20.350 Either way works. Go to Patreon and start your seven-day 2309 01:49:20.430 --> 01:49:23.689 free trial. If you're listening to us on the Apple 2310 01:49:23.710 --> 01:49:26.250 Podcast app, on Spotify, or any other app that allows 2311 01:49:26.289 --> 01:49:28.140 you to rate our podcast, please take a moment to 2312 01:49:28.149 --> 01:49:30.500 give us a five-star rating. It really helps us in 2313 01:49:30.539 --> 01:49:33.619 the algorithm and helps them know that you recommend us 2314 01:49:33.779 --> 01:49:35.640 to others. Just look for a place to rate the 2315 01:49:35.680 --> 01:49:38.159 show on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening 2316 01:49:38.180 --> 01:49:40.600 to our shows, and please click that five-star rating. And 2317 01:49:40.619 --> 01:49:44.579 of course, thank you so much for listening. A PWTorch 2318 01:49:44.619 --> 01:49:46.899 VIP membership doesn't just give you ad-free access to these 2319 01:49:46.939 --> 01:49:49.800 shows and a ton of other VIP-exclusive podcasts throughout the week. 2320 01:49:50.029 --> 01:49:53.010 But you also gain access to our unmatched, vast library 2321 01:49:53.050 --> 01:49:56.380 of wrestling history, our contemporaneous week-to-week coverage through our Pro 2322 01:49:56.399 --> 01:49:59.399 Wrestling Torch weekly newsletters dating back to the late 1980s, 2323 01:49:59.760 --> 01:50:02.960 along with streaming and download access to hundreds of retro 2324 01:50:03.000 --> 01:50:05.840 radio shows from the 1990s, including some of my interviews 2325 01:50:06.260 --> 01:50:09.439 with wrestling's top newsmakers in the 90s. And also our 2326 01:50:09.640 --> 01:50:13.380 podcast library dating back to the year 2003. There's no larger, 2327 01:50:13.819 --> 01:50:17.800 longer-spanning pro wrestling podcast library than that that comes with 2328 01:50:17.859 --> 01:50:21.899 a PWTorch VIP membership. now approaching 20 years of podcasting. 2329 01:50:22.119 --> 01:50:25.739 Go VIP and dive into our post-pay-per-view roundtables, our coverage 2330 01:50:25.779 --> 01:50:29.699 of some of your favorite eras of wrestling, top-name long-form interviews, 2331 01:50:30.140 --> 01:50:34.859 and special format podcasts that we've done throughout the years. pwtorch.com 2332 01:50:34.970 --> 01:50:38.409 slash govip. We have a streamlined sign-up form, and you 2333 01:50:38.430 --> 01:50:40.710 can pay with PayPal or directly with your credit card 2334 01:50:40.829 --> 01:50:43.449 or debit card in one or two minutes. From right now, 2335 01:50:43.529 --> 01:50:47.149 you can be a VIP member and diving into our library, pwtorch.com 2336 01:50:47.210 --> 01:50:48.210 slash govip.