Bản chép lời đầy đủ của Interview with Zach Hall: On Life & The Call to Ministry

00:03:58.479 I went through a phase where I was adamantly opposed to everything sports, and I've since tamed down from that, and I appreciate sports for what it is. 00:03:58.639 --> 00:03:58.800 Yeah. 00:03:58.960 --> 00:04:00.719 We'd receive every good gift from the Lord. 00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:01.280 Exactly. 00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:03.039 Yeah, and and football is one of those gifts. 00:04:03.199 --> 00:04:06.639 Football is a very, very fun, and I enjoyed playing it. 00:04:06.800 --> 00:04:08.960 So it's a fun, it's a it's a good sport. 00:04:09.039 --> 00:04:09.199 Yeah. 00:04:09.280 --> 00:04:09.520 Yeah. 00:04:09.759 --> 00:04:11.599 So did you play football in high school then? 00:04:11.840 --> 00:04:14.960 Yeah, I played so I was homeschooled K through 12. 00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:16.000 Maybe start there. 00:04:16.160 --> 00:04:16.240 Yeah. 00:04:16.399 --> 00:04:18.879 So I was never public schooled, K through 12. 00:04:18.959 --> 00:04:22.000 My parents convictionally just wanted to raise us up in the home. 00:04:22.879 --> 00:04:26.079 And so that kind of brought in doing homeschool sports. 00:04:26.639 --> 00:04:32.160 So I played, I think I played t-ball for like one year, and then I did upward basketball. 00:04:32.319 --> 00:04:34.160 Some of the people remember upward. 00:04:34.319 --> 00:04:34.720 Oh yeah. 00:04:34.879 --> 00:04:40.639 I did a wana all the way through, I think it was oh, what was it? 00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:41.360 What is it called? 00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:41.920 The last one. 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:45.600 Anyways, I did the Sparky, the Cubbies, the Sparkies, whatever. 00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:47.519 I I don't remember what the teenager one is. 00:04:47.680 --> 00:04:47.920 Yeah. 00:04:48.079 --> 00:04:48.879 And then sports. 00:04:49.040 --> 00:04:52.399 I played basketball for the most part, middle school, high school. 00:04:52.480 --> 00:04:57.759 And then I played full tackle football for a league, the screaming Eagles out of South Omaha. 00:04:58.000 --> 00:04:58.319 Great. 00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:04.720 We actually practiced, and I think I might have even played a game at the South Highs Field. 00:05:04.959 --> 00:05:05.279 Cool. 00:05:05.439 --> 00:05:08.560 When I was, yeah, like 12 and 13 or something like that. 00:05:08.639 --> 00:05:10.319 And then I played flag football. 00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:10.800 Awesome. 00:05:11.040 --> 00:05:11.439 In high school. 00:05:11.519 --> 00:05:11.680 Yeah. 00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:12.319 Great. 00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:15.680 So you mentioned your dad had the uh remodeling business. 00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:15.920 Yeah. 00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:18.160 There's a formative experience, just learn how to be handy. 00:05:18.319 --> 00:05:22.240 Or some other kind of formative, memorable experiences that you had growing up as a kid. 00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:22.720 Yeah. 00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:26.480 So we we grew up on two acres, which allowed us to have chickens. 00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:26.720 Yeah. 00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:34.560 And just being growing up, learning to take care of livestock was just something a lot of kids in the area in the Omaha area don't get to do. 00:05:34.720 --> 00:05:44.399 So I would say that was very formative, teaching me how to, you know, shovel the manure, throw it in the garden, just like do the things that do the dirty jobs, like the micro type of thing. 00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:48.240 Where it's like being willy to get your hands dirty, doing that. 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:59.199 My parents were really good about making us do things like cleaning bathrooms and stuff, even though I was very adamantly opposed to cleaning bathrooms as a kid, very thankful for that skill now as an adult. 00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:02.160 Because you'd be surprised how many people don't know how to clean a toilet. 00:06:02.319 --> 00:06:02.879 Yeah. 00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:03.279 Yeah. 00:06:03.519 --> 00:06:05.199 Or don't want to, I should say. 00:06:05.519 --> 00:06:07.120 Formative experiences. 00:06:07.279 --> 00:06:09.120 Yeah, that's a good question. 00:06:09.439 --> 00:06:13.040 So we I grew up in Twin Valley Church. 00:06:13.120 --> 00:06:14.959 There's an evangelical free church. 00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:17.040 Many people know the E-free denomination. 00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:21.199 Very general evangelical denomination. 00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:23.519 They're conservative, though. 00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:25.360 And I grew up in that. 00:06:25.519 --> 00:06:28.480 My dad was an elder on the board of elders. 00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:38.639 So they didn't view that particular church, didn't view pastors kind of as Emmaus does, where it wasn't like a plurality. 00:06:38.879 --> 00:06:52.079 The past the lead pastor was a lead pastor, and then you had your like your board of elders that kind of handled all of the miscellaneous, like budget and secretary stuff, and I mean teaching too, but mainly Sunday school. 00:06:52.560 --> 00:06:57.360 But you had the pastor being like he was the pastor, he was the shepherd type of thing. 00:06:57.519 --> 00:06:57.839 Yeah. 00:06:58.000 --> 00:06:59.680 But there was some there was some overlays. 00:06:59.839 --> 00:07:03.920 Sometimes there was plurality with like shepherding list and stuff, but mainly that's what I grew up with. 00:07:04.319 --> 00:07:07.519 So my dad served, and I got to see my dad serve there. 00:07:07.600 --> 00:07:13.040 One of the formative experiences, I just texted my dad about this or told him this. 00:07:13.120 --> 00:07:15.600 I think I wrote a card to him actually for Father's Day. 00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:21.360 And I one of the most formative things my dad did ever did for me wasn't anything he ever said. 00:07:21.439 --> 00:07:27.439 It was every morning whenever I would wake up at that time and be able to catch my dad in the office. 00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:30.480 He always had his Bible open and he was always reading. 00:07:31.600 --> 00:07:37.120 Yeah, he

was faithful, he was a faithful reader of God's word through and through. 00:07:37.439 --> 00:07:39.600 And I never doubted that for a second. 00:07:39.759 --> 00:07:59.839 And like you, you un you you don't appreciate those things until you're a father yourself and you recognize like as you're raising your kids and trying to be a good dad, like that's one of the things that's sticking with me is like the best I can do for my kids is pursuing the Lord and allowing them to see me pursue the Lord. 00:07:59.920 --> 00:08:06.879 Not in a prideful way, but like if if as a father I'm pursuing God actively, my kids are gonna see that. 00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:11.279 Yeah, and that was very formative for me growing up. 00:08:11.439 --> 00:08:14.639 Another thing that was very formative is my family did foster care. 00:08:15.199 --> 00:08:16.560 So that started. 00:08:16.639 --> 00:08:18.160 I don't remember how old I was. 00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:21.439 My mom would know if she listens to this, she's gonna be like, you should, you know. 00:08:21.600 --> 00:08:25.279 But anyway, she we did foster care, I think, for like seven or eight years. 00:08:26.399 --> 00:08:28.160 And that was hard. 00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:29.680 It's hard for me. 00:08:29.839 --> 00:08:35.120 Uh it was hard for, I'm sure it was hard for my younger brother William, all my siblings. 00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:40.240 And but out of it, the Lord blessed us with my two bro youngest brothers. 00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:42.000 We ended up adopting. 00:08:42.320 --> 00:08:44.320 God has blessed our our family with them. 00:08:44.399 --> 00:08:50.159 And Devon actually is down at uh Tennessee Tech playing division one football. 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:50.960 Sweet. 00:08:51.120 --> 00:08:55.759 And my other brother, Sean, he has gotten some division two offers. 00:08:56.000 --> 00:08:56.240 Cool. 00:08:56.399 --> 00:08:57.519 So very cool to see that. 00:08:57.600 --> 00:09:05.679 But as far as like formative, foster care was hard in that it brought I don't know, it just changed the family dynamic. 00:09:05.919 --> 00:09:07.840 And any family that does foster care sees that. 00:09:07.919 --> 00:09:09.759 So I think that was formative as well. 00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:16.720 Just seeing like, oh, there's these other kids in need, other families who wow, their parents are like really mean to them. 00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:22.559 And seeing that as a kid, it's like, wow, I have like really good parents, yeah, type of thing. 00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:32.879 So as far as like formative experiences outside of like my own like relationship with the Lord, I would say like those were the main things. 00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:33.759 Yeah, yeah. 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:35.200 No, that's great to hear. 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:35.919 Yeah. 00:09:36.720 --> 00:09:39.440 So as I mentioned earlier, I used to come on staff three weeks back. 00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:39.840 Yeah. 00:09:40.080 --> 00:09:42.159 Before that, you'd start

up your own handyman business. 00:09:42.320 --> 00:09:42.559 Yeah. 00:09:42.720 --> 00:09:46.480 So as a kid, what did you think you were gonna do when you quote, grew up? 00:09:46.639 --> 00:09:46.879 Yeah. 00:09:47.120 --> 00:09:49.679 Was it be a handyman and a pastoral assistant? 00:09:49.919 --> 00:09:50.399 Yes. 00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:54.960 No, my dream was was not to be a pastor, actually. 00:09:55.200 --> 00:09:58.720 Um growing up, I loved the military. 00:09:58.879 --> 00:09:59.120 Yeah. 00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:01.519 I was I was in pursuit of the military. 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:05.919 And so after I graduated high school, I was unsure of what I wanted to do. 00:10:06.399 --> 00:10:10.399 And I started attending UNO in their criminal justice program. 00:10:10.639 --> 00:10:10.960 Yeah. 00:10:11.279 --> 00:10:16.080 And got into a relationship when I was there at UNO. 00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:18.320 This is 2015 time frame. 00:10:18.799 --> 00:10:37.279 And the relationship just wasn't good because we, even though she was nominally Christian and I was a Christian, I don't know if she was a Christian or not as I look back, but we weren't pointing each other towards the Lord, and we were mainly trying to uh hoist ourselves up to pursue our own careers. 00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:42.879 But the career that I was pursuing was I wanted to be a detective, I wanted to be a police officer. 00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:54.799 Uh specifically, if you ever watch those um Jack Reacher or the Jack Reacher books, I think it's Tom Clancy, he's a criminal detective in C I D, criminal investigation detective. 00:10:55.200 --> 00:10:56.399 So that's what I wanted to do. 00:10:56.480 --> 00:10:56.639 Yeah. 00:10:56.720 --> 00:11:01.279 So when I went to the recruiter office in 2015, I was like, hey, I want to do 31 Bravo. 00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:01.759 Yeah. 00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:04.159 31 Bravo is the military enforcement. 00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:06.799 They're the patrolees of the of the army. 00:11:06.960 --> 00:11:07.279 Yeah. 00:11:07.600 --> 00:11:14.639 And the the recruiter suckered me in to sign up for the 31 Echo for the$20,000 bonus. 00:11:14.720 --> 00:11:14.879 Yeah. 00:11:14.960 --> 00:11:18.159 Or maybe it was$15,000 bonus, which I didn't get all of it. 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:21.519 I got I I got it in segments throughout the years of my contract. 00:11:21.759 --> 00:11:22.720 That's how they get you. 00:11:23.120 --> 00:11:24.480 They promise you with this big thing. 00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:25.679 It's like actually you can't get it. 00:11:25.759 --> 00:11:27.120 But a little bit of fine print there. 00:11:27.279 --> 00:11:27.360 Yeah. 00:11:27.440 --> 00:11:30.399 So 31 Echo is actually a corrections officer. 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:33.919 So I went to for very, very different. 00:11:34.159 --> 00:11:34.960 Very different. 00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:35.600 Yes. 00:11:35.919 --> 00:11:36.240 Yeah. 00:11:36.480 --> 00:11:41.200 So already, as I look back, God

was redirecting me in very subtle ways. 00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:44.159 And I I used to share this. 00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:54.159 I don't share this as much anymore, but I I remember when I was going to, because I was walking with the Lord, I remember going to that recruiter's office and just not feeling peace about it. 00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:58.639 But I remember having this idea in my head that like, God, I know what I want to do. 00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:00.320 I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna do this. 00:12:00.639 --> 00:12:10.799 Because tracking back, I got saved when I was 15, or at least that's when I came to a knowledge of repentance and faith in Christ, a a right understanding, or at least when everything clicked. 00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:27.519 And from that point onward, even through high school, I would get through the in these debates and like things that would just invigorate me to study God's word and like what is repentance and and wrestling with these ideas of scripture and like I loved it. 00:12:27.600 --> 00:12:37.120 And I remember just, you know, the typical old lady in your church, I would get these comments like, you know, I think the Lord has something for you, or something to that degree. 00:12:37.279 --> 00:12:41.600 Maybe not like you should be a pastor, but that there was always subtle hints of that. 00:12:41.759 --> 00:12:46.960 I mean, in my graduation class for high school, I was the chaplain for the class. 00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:53.519 Many of the people listening to this will know it's it was the it was the homeschool, high school graduation thing that they do in Omaha, the bigger one. 00:12:53.679 --> 00:12:58.240 Yeah, and so I was a part of that, and I was a chaplain, and that was a cool experience. 00:12:58.399 --> 00:12:58.720 Yeah. 00:12:59.039 --> 00:13:07.519 And I remember just preparing that prayer for that graduating class, and it just like it was it was just fun. 00:13:07.679 --> 00:13:09.120 Like I thoroughly enjoyed it. 00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:18.000 But you know, other you're wrestling through desires, and yeah, so go to the recruiter's office, felt like it wasn't, I wasn't at peace. 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:28.559 After I get back from my training, I went to basic in Fort Jackson, South Carolina, and then I went to train, I trained at for my AIT school for my job at Fort Leonardwood, Missouri. 00:13:28.799 --> 00:13:35.759 And then came back, and like a month or two later, I get a call from my first sergeant, and he's like, Hey, we're going to Cuba. 00:13:35.919 --> 00:13:37.440 Like basically, you got signed on the roster. 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:39.120 I was like, Yeah, oh, this is awesome. 00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:41.519 Yeah, but at the same time, I was like, Oh, wow. 00:13:41.759 --> 00:13:49.519 So we went to down to Quatanamo Bay, kind of dealing with the aftermath of like everything that happened post-9-11 and all of the detainees that were gathered from that. 00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:55.440 Like, there's

still detainees down there, there's still court stuff happening, and this is yeah, 25. 00:13:55.759 --> 00:13:58.399 The guy who masterminded 9-11 is still there, correct? 00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:02.639 Yeah, you could call him the chief financial officer of 9-11. 00:14:02.960 --> 00:14:06.080 His his acronym, well, K Khalid something Muhammad. 00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:08.879 Yeah, KSM is for short. 00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:11.840 But yeah, he I I met him, escorted him. 00:14:12.559 --> 00:14:16.080 He just struck striked me as a grumpy old man. 00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:17.919 Like a lot, it's interesting. 00:14:18.159 --> 00:14:22.480 Your elbow might have accidentally lodged into his ribs a couple times in passing. 00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:22.720 No. 00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:30.720 No, that was an interesting thing, is I went down there, Josh, and I expected, I expected to be able to, I expected it to be in a hostile environment. 00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:31.200 Yeah. 00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:33.840 And actually, it was more like a senior living center. 00:14:34.399 --> 00:14:43.679 Well, a lot of these guys, they're docile, they're old, they're grumpy, they've been and you know, there's a there's a lot more than what I'll get into as far as all of that. 00:14:43.840 --> 00:15:13.279 Because you get into yeah, there's so I don't need to get into it right now, but but the point is the thing that impacted me the most from my time in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, outside of the time I got to spend in the ocean, and me almost drowning too, which was crazy, was my was seeing these men do their whole you know, five pillars of Islam thing where they would pray so many times a day. 00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:22.399 And now granted, this wasn't like father to son to father type prayer that that you know, like Jesus going away to a desolate place and praying to his father. 00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:23.519 This isn't that type of prayer. 00:15:23.600 --> 00:15:31.600 This is a very ritualistic, and I would call it unemotional prayer where it's just this I'm just doing this as a duty, yeah. 00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:34.080 You know, self-righteous duty. 00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:40.960 And but I saw that and I'm like, wow, they they genuinely like there's this almost this mode of like wow, prayer is really important to them. 00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:42.159 Why isn't it important to me? 00:15:42.559 --> 00:15:43.200 That type of thing. 00:15:43.519 --> 00:16:01.200 I remember thinking that in Cuba, but no, Cuba was fun, and then I came back and that's when I met Valerie, and and I'm getting to where I'm I'm I I'm getting to like what I wanted to be because it kind of like meshes itself into marriage. 00:16:01.360 --> 00:16:01.679 Yeah. 00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:04.000 So I met Valerie the second week. 00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:06.480 We were in the same graduation class in high school. 00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:08.559 I hang out so you were her chaplain. 00:16:09.279 --> 00:16:10.159 Yeah, yeah. 00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:14.159 I guess now that you say that, I've never heard of this that way before. 00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:15.360 That's so funny. 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:17.279 Yeah, I'm gonna go home and tell her that now. 00:16:17.679 --> 00:16:22.480 Like, hey honey, just so you know, I was your chaplain a lot longer before you even rec recognize it. 00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:23.840 Oh, yeah, before we were married. 00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:27.039 Like that probably I've been the shepherd of your heart since we were 18. 00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:29.039 That's a stretch. 00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:31.360 Uh but, anyways, we got married. 00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:35.519 Uh, sorry, we met two weeks after I got back in 2017. 00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:39.919 And I wish it was more of a romantic story, but we ended up breaking up twice. 00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:46.720 And that was not at all on her, that was on me, because I was so uncertain of what I wanted. 00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:47.039 Yeah. 00:16:47.200 --> 00:16:49.519 And it reflected in what I was pursuing. 00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:57.519 Like, obviously, back to the recruiter's office, there was uncertainty there, uncertainty with job, uncertainty with that with that old girlfriend. 00:16:57.600 --> 00:16:59.679 Like, there was just so much uncertainty. 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:05.839 And, you know, Valerie was very gracious and long-suffering for me. 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:14.240 So, anyways, we we started dating, broke up, and then we dated again, broke up, and then I was like, she's like, basically, don't text me or anything again. 00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:17.759 I'm not dating you again unless you're gonna marry me. 00:17:17.920 --> 00:17:18.240 Yeah. 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:23.920 And I remember it was the second day after I broke up with her that last time, I was like, wow, I I messed everything up. 00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:26.079 Like, I I want to marry her, I love her. 00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:36.400 And I was very, I was very reluctant to tell her I ever loved her because I'd done that with a previous relationship, and I just learned you don't use that word carelessly. 00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:37.200 Yeah. 00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:38.960 So got back together. 00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:46.799 I remember I took her November 11th of 2000, I think it was 18, took her to Olive Garden and just told her I loved her. 00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:55.680 And then from there, you know, we I got engaged April 2nd because I decided not to propose April 1st of 2019. 00:17:55.839 --> 00:18:00.160 And then we got married 2000, August 31st of 2019. 00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:05.200 But in marriage, I was still, after we got married, I was still in the Army reserves. 00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:08.240 I was still drilling out in Elkhorn on my unit. 00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:12.240 And I was like, do I go active duty? 00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:17.200 There were so many jobs in the army that was like, oh, I could be a diver, I could be this, I could be

that. 00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:20.480 I was even looking at Coast Guard, I was looking at the Navy. 00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:23.440 My father-in-law was career military, yeah. 00:18:23.599 --> 00:18:28.799 So there was some pressure there that I was like living up to this and also the benefits from it. 00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:33.599 It's very can be very lucrative, and then the opportunities is really cool. 00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:40.480 But at the same time, I felt like I just felt like I was being pulled in a different direction. 00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:46.480 I felt like God was like, no, nobody, like this isn't this isn't what I have for you. 00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:48.319 And I didn't understand it. 00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:49.920 I didn't Yeah. 00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:52.720 So 2019, we get married. 00:18:52.960 --> 00:19:00.480 2000, I am at that time an elder of a church in Bellevue, the same church I grew up in, Twin Valley Church. 00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:01.119 I did not know this. 00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:02.640 You were pre- you were previously an elder. 00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:04.319 I was previously an elder. 00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:06.799 So That's Twin Valley you said in Bellevue. 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:08.240 In Bellevue, yeah. 00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:09.920 So 2000. 00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:12.559 I'm trying to get my timeline straight. 00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:16.160 So 2000 when I left for my deployment in 2016, there was one pastor. 00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:17.279 Funds dropped. 00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:19.119 He wasn't able to support his family, so he left. 00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:20.720 He was my previous mentor. 00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:25.200 He counseled me a lot through like just you know, sinful things and so forth. 00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:32.240 And then get back, 2017, Ryan, Pastor Ryan is there, and he kind of takes me under his wing. 00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:41.279 So 2017, 2018, 2019, he starts to the end of 2017, he starts to teach me like this is what expositional preaching is. 00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:46.880 This is what, and I'm like, it's just kind of like whoa, like you studying the word, he's like, there's a meaning to the text. 00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:50.000 He was teaching me the observation, interpretation, application method. 00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:50.319 Yeah. 00:19:50.480 --> 00:19:51.759 So very simple. 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:55.519 And and then he's like, hey, I think you should try to do this yourself. 00:19:55.599 --> 00:19:56.319 You should try to preach. 00:19:56.480 --> 00:19:59.519 I was like, Oh, okay, like let's let's try this out. 00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:00.000 Yeah. 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:02.000 So I kept meeting with him. 00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:05.440 He was my mentor, he taught me how to expositional preach. 00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:07.839 I ended up preaching at Twin Valley a handful of times. 00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:08.240 Sweet. 00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:10.079 We were a very small church at the time. 00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:12.480 Twin Valley had been through a lot of hard things. 00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:12.880 Yeah. 00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:15.759 And at that time, there was like 25, maybe 30 members. 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:16.000 Yeah. 00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:18.640 And we were kind of like barely staying afloat financially. 00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:19.119 Yeah. 00:20:19.359 --> 00:20:23.680 And but Ryan was just, he took me under his wing, he was teaching me. 00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:28.720 And so I was I was doing that, and he's actually the pastor who married us. 00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:29.039 Yeah. 00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:32.160 We got married over there at the old community Bible church building. 00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:32.880 Sweet. 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:38.400 And yeah, so I'm trying to remember what I was saying. 00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:41.759 You're kind of working through what you want to be when you grew up. 00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:42.319 That's right, that's right. 00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:46.000 Okay, and that dovetailed with me and Valerie. 00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:53.920 So, so with that training, exegetical training that he was giving me, it was kind of like growing this desire. 00:20:54.559 --> 00:20:55.440 Should I be a pastor? 00:20:55.599 --> 00:20:56.160 Should I not? 00:20:56.319 --> 00:21:07.519 Like I'm already like there's this from when I was in high school, like the love of scripture and trying to argue for like what repentance truly is and so forth. 00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:16.640 And then I get to Ryan, and then he's teaching me these things, and I'm like, oh, and then I'm teach Sunday school and I'll preach Sunday mornings very occasionally, not nearly as often as I'm doing now. 00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:25.759 And I may ask, so like the eldership that you had at Twin Valley, did that e-free church have a similar view and role for elders as we do at our church? 00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:26.880 Is it a little bit distinct there? 00:21:27.119 --> 00:21:28.720 That's what I was trying to get into earlier. 00:21:28.880 --> 00:21:53.279 So they had like shepherding lists for their elders, but I I don't it was not a robust view of plurality and parody, yeah uh like there is Adamus, and like you would want to see at any, you know, gospel preaching church where the pastors share equal responsibility for shepherding the flock as well as authority. 00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:57.680 Yeah, distinct roles, but yeah, equal in authority. 00:21:57.920 --> 00:21:58.720 There's no hierarchy. 00:21:58.960 --> 00:21:59.759 Yeah, and that's one of the things. 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:14.319 Things yeah, the longer you're here at Emmaus, you understand, or any church like Emmaus, you'll understand like Pastor Steve and Pastor Luke, like, yeah, Pastor Steve has a full-time job and he does it works outside of the church. 00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:14.640 Yeah. 00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:23.440 And Pastor Luke is dedicated to preaching the word of God and shepherding the saints, and he gets

paid, he praise God, he gets paid to do that. 00:22:23.599 --> 00:22:24.240 Yeah. 00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:27.839 But at the same time, you look at Steve and it's like, wow, he really loves the sheep. 00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:29.680 And you look at Luke, it's like he really loves the sheep. 00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:29.920 Yeah. 00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:32.880 And and elders' meetings, they both get one vote. 00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:33.200 Right. 00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:35.519 Luke does get like, I get 12 votes, you get one Steve. 00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:36.400 It's it's one to one. 00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:36.799 Right. 00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:40.400 And they're also trained, is the distinction I would make. 00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:48.079 I would say the elders at Twin Valley growing up weren't necessarily equipped and trained as efficiently as efficiently as they could have been. 00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:48.480 Yeah. 00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:53.119 To be able to, and that was just a lack, I think, of the lead pastors. 00:22:53.599 --> 00:22:58.480 Because oftentimes what happens is a lead pastor will come in and he'll just take everything. 00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:01.279 And then the the elders are just the elders, they just become a board. 00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:20.400 But what ought to happen, and I know we're getting off track, but I just want to say this real quick is the the lead pastor has a has an opportunity to help train and kind of guide along the laymen who don't have time to think about specific things, yeah, so that the layman can be, the lay pastors can be equipped to do similar things that the lead pastor is doing. 00:23:20.480 --> 00:23:22.480 And the lead pastor will all but benefit. 00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:28.079 Now, if you have a problem with sharing responsibility and authority, then that is going to be a problem. 00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:28.480 Yeah. 00:23:28.880 --> 00:23:36.240 And I did see that at Twin Valley at times with with lead pastors and a problem of like kind of sharing the reins. 00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:36.799 Yeah. 00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:45.279 So he's teaching me, Pastor Ryan's teaching me how to expositional preach, which and and and he's guiding me along, which I'm forever going to be grateful for. 00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:51.839 And we get married, and I'm in the we're after getting married, we're like, we're just struggling. 00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:56.240 Like there's three things that were were, you know, two things. 00:23:57.119 --> 00:23:59.759 When you first get married, you argue about a lot of things, and there's a lot of conflict. 00:23:59.839 --> 00:24:02.000 But there's some things that we were really, really struggling over. 00:24:02.079 --> 00:24:03.440 And that was military and career. 00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:04.559 It's a big thing. 00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:11.440 Yeah, finances is another thing, and then just things that go along with being married when you're first married. 00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:18.160 And so the military thing was just if we're being 100% honest, like it was an idol in my heart. 00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:22.640 Like I was I had this idea in my head for the type of man I wanted to be. 00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:34.319 I've always struggled with growing up, I always struggled with like self-image and trying to please people and wanting to people to perceive me in a specific way. 00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:35.119 Yeah. 00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:43.680 And as you grow, you realize like, you know, that Galatians 1, 10, like, do I seek to please man or am I trying to please God? 00:24:43.839 --> 00:24:45.359 Like what is the point of what I'm doing? 00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:46.720 And it's salt water. 00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:57.839 Like it there's an initial quenching of that thirst, but uh ultimately it just drains you and cripples you and sucks all the life out of you if you're constantly looking to please other people. 00:24:58.079 --> 00:24:58.559 Yeah. 00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:04.240 Yeah, people pleasing is is a is a hard rut to get out of. 00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:09.119 That's often where shame leads, is to people pleasing, amongst other things too. 00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:10.400 There's a lot of things that can lead to it. 00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:19.279 But so I am struggling with that, and I think two things. 00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:22.720 I was I didn't grow up reformed like at all. 00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:26.319 I grew up dispensational, which is fine. 00:25:26.559 --> 00:25:28.880 I grew up Arminian, which is fine. 00:25:29.119 --> 00:25:30.559 Yeah, brothers and scissors in grace. 00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:31.359 Absolutely. 00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:37.599 But I slowly started to come to the conviction of like the doctrines of grace, as we see in the like reformation. 00:25:38.559 --> 00:25:42.240 And I really struggled with it, and I was like, this doesn't make sense. 00:25:42.559 --> 00:25:45.039 I remember sitting in the Chick-fil-A, and I tell this story all the time. 00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:48.880 Chick-fil-A with Chris Hemmelman, who maybe we'll listen to this someday. 00:25:49.119 --> 00:25:50.880 And he's pastoring now in Georgia. 00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:52.799 He he got called to Georgia. 00:25:52.880 --> 00:26:01.680 But I was sitting there and he explained to me the doctrines of grace, the the kind of tulip idea in a way that I never heard just the sovereignty of God, yeah, God's love for his children. 00:26:01.839 --> 00:26:11.759 And I was just like, wow, like I I don't know why, but I think I'm pretty convinced of this idea biblically, philosophically. 00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:12.079 Yeah. 00:26:12.480 --> 00:26:21.440 And so as that started, those wheels started to turn, I was like wrestling with this idea of like, do I go to seminary? 00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:35.440 Because my my one of my mentors, Pastor Ryan, the last mentor before the one who married us, he encouraged me not to go to seminary and encouraged me rather to just go through the EFCA

ordination process, which I initially started to do, but backed out of. 00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:36.319 I don't remember why. 00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:40.400 EFCA would be the evangelical free church of America, their ordination process. 00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:42.559 Yeah, which is a pretty rigorous process. 00:26:42.799 --> 00:26:52.319 Like you have to deal with some just like like going, it's kind of like a short track to go through seminary, but you because you have to really wrestle with a lot of ideas, you have to read some pretty hefty books. 00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:53.119 Yeah. 00:26:53.599 --> 00:26:55.279 At least from what I remember. 00:26:55.519 --> 00:26:57.440 And didn't end up doing that. 00:26:57.680 --> 00:27:05.759 And all this military struggle, I was like, and then Twin Valley ends up closing in 2020, so we're no longer members of that church. 00:27:05.839 --> 00:27:06.720 So we're trying to find a church. 00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:08.480 So we we visit Coromdeo. 00:27:09.039 --> 00:27:11.039 Everyone knows Cormdale in the Omaha area. 00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:14.079 At least if you're from the Omaha area, you know Coramdale, Bob Thune. 00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:14.480 Yeah. 00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:16.079 And Good Sister Church. 00:27:16.240 --> 00:27:16.559 Yep. 00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:17.039 Yep. 00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:19.680 And I disagreed with Reformed theology at the time. 00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:20.240 Oh, yeah. 00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:23.279 So I was like, I was like, no, not doing this. 00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:29.039 And we ended up at Cross Point Bible, which is at 90th and Fort. 00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:32.079 And at the time, the pastor there is why we went there. 00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:32.480 Yeah. 00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:33.119 Josh. 00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:35.119 So I this is the funny thing. 00:27:35.359 --> 00:27:39.759 So I it was always my desire to be like mentored by men. 00:27:39.839 --> 00:27:40.799 Like, I need someone. 00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:41.200 Yeah. 00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:44.480 And and you can find you can have a lot of idolatry in that. 00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:50.559 Because like you attach yourself as a young man to this idea of like, if I just get the right mentor, then I'm set. 00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:51.759 It's like that's the wrong thing. 00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:55.440 Then you get into his network, you get the different platforms you could possibly get through that, yeah. 00:27:55.680 --> 00:28:05.200 Yeah, and that's just the wrong mentality because to grow as a man, first you just need to go to the Lord through his word and prayer. 00:28:05.440 --> 00:28:15.440 And I'm listening through a Paul Washer thing that my wife sent me, and it just reminded me of some of those realities of like men are fallible people. 00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:22.480 And yes, God has set it up that we are to make disciples, yeah, to make and train other disciples, and that just continues on. 00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:26.160 But so singing a

mentor is not a bad thing, but it can can become an idol. 00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:29.279 Anyways, I go to Crosspoint Bible, Isaiah Lewis is there, he's reformed. 00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:31.759 I'm like, dude, this is now we're cooking. 00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:32.799 Like, this is great. 00:28:32.960 --> 00:28:35.920 I am going, I'm going to Spurgeon College online at the time. 00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:38.079 This is 2020 in the summer. 00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:41.440 I'm like, Isaiah, you can you can shepherd me. 00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:43.200 He's like, dude, I'm all in, let's go. 00:28:43.359 --> 00:28:43.599 Yeah. 00:28:43.759 --> 00:28:46.640 And then there's a controversy at Cross Point, and he leaves. 00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:48.000 And I'm like, dude. 00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:48.400 Yeah. 00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:49.839 He was only there for three months. 00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:53.920 And I'm like, Valerie, what what what's going on? 00:28:54.160 --> 00:28:54.640 Yeah. 00:28:54.880 --> 00:28:56.960 So we continue down this. 00:28:57.680 --> 00:28:58.799 I'm taking classes. 00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:04.160 Now I want to take a step back, and we're going to get to early life now and then conversion. 00:29:04.240 --> 00:29:07.680 And I'm going to step back into family life real quick because this is important. 00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:08.160 Yeah. 00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:10.960 I got addicted to pornography when I was like nine or ten years old. 00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:15.759 And that was very formative in an obviously negative way. 00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:17.200 I think that's okay to say. 00:29:17.279 --> 00:29:20.480 I don't know what the opposite of, anyways, it was very negative impact. 00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:23.279 And it was not necessarily negligence from my parents. 00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:27.119 It was just they were unaware and I kept it hid from them for like four years. 00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:27.440 Yeah. 00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:29.359 That just left computers unlocked. 00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:37.359 And and they didn't necessarily because the my older two siblings, that wasn't a perceived issue, at least discovered issue. 00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:46.400 So I was the basically the mouse that set the trap as far as them understanding like this is a big issue. 00:29:46.559 --> 00:29:47.200 Yeah. 00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:52.240 And that set me into a really just dark period from like 10 to 14. 00:29:53.440 --> 00:29:57.599 I remember just yeah, hating life. 00:29:57.759 --> 00:29:59.759 I was awful to my mother. 00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:03.759 I yeah, I was just an awful, awful kid. 00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:09.119 And previous to this, I remember being scared to go go to hell when I was like seven, eight, nine. 00:30:09.519 --> 00:30:13.200 And having my mom lead me in the prayer as Jesus into my heart. 00:30:13.359 --> 00:30:15.359 And my mom remembers more than I do. 00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:24.319 But what I remember is not feeling changed by it, but more or less

just trying to hold on to something, and I just didn't understand. 00:30:24.480 --> 00:30:25.119 Yeah. 00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:28.079 But, anyways, I was struggling with pornography. 00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:29.440 I was in the thralls of it. 00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:31.440 And yeah, I just didn't see any way out. 00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:34.160 There was a point when I became so hopeless. 00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:37.279 I just I became suicidal, didn't really want to live anymore. 00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:37.599 Yeah. 00:30:37.839 --> 00:30:39.519 It was just a hopeless situation. 00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:49.119 And remember even trying to sell myself out to the devil because of some movie I saw like this really dark times. 00:30:49.759 --> 00:30:59.359 Later on in life, understanding like actually our souls are not like Satan is a dog on the Lord's leash, and he has no authority over my soul. 00:30:59.440 --> 00:31:03.440 Actually, it's the Lord and the Lord only who who holds our souls in his hands. 00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:08.799 And that was a huge, I don't remember when I came to that understanding, but that was just that was a process. 00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:10.000 That wasn't a one-time thing. 00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:10.319 Yeah. 00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:13.440 But when I was 15, I went to a Christian camp for the second time. 00:31:13.839 --> 00:31:15.920 So I went for 13 and then 15. 00:31:16.079 --> 00:31:22.400 And it was Ryan, I think, who was preaching, Pastor Ryan, who was preaching the message on repentance at this Christian youth in action thing. 00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:24.559 And I just remember just something clicking. 00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:27.119 I'm like, wow, I haven't repented of my sin. 00:31:27.279 --> 00:31:29.359 Like I'm not turning from it. 00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:32.000 And that changed my trajectory. 00:31:32.079 --> 00:31:32.240 Yeah. 00:31:32.559 --> 00:31:36.480 And began to like see change in my own heart that summer. 00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:39.440 Like really enjoyed preaching the gospel. 00:31:39.599 --> 00:31:49.839 And one thing I'll say is CYIA, Christian Youth in Action, is an organization that has an Omaha chapter that is organized and designed to train kids to teach kids the gospel. 00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:55.599 When I was 13, I tried to do that, and I remember them trying to get me to learn how to teach the gospel. 00:31:55.680 --> 00:31:57.839 And I remember not being able to connect the points. 00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:00.799 Like have you have you heard of the wordless book? 00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:09.039 It's often attributed to Spurgeon, but it's basically like you have your gold page, heaven, and then you have your the wristbands in church camp when I was growing up. 00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:09.200 Yeah. 00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:11.599 There's a different colors that represented different parts of the gospel. 00:32:11.839 --> 00:32:12.160 Exactly. 00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:12.640 That's it. 00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:12.960 That's

it. 00:32:13.039 --> 00:32:15.200 That's the word that comes out of the wordless book idea. 00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:15.759 I see. 00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:20.319 And I think it's attributed with Charles Haddon Spurgeon for who who started that. 00:32:20.559 --> 00:32:24.880 But but anyways, I I wasn't able to teach the gospel when I was 13. 00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:29.200 And it's funny when I look back, I'm like, it's because you didn't understand the gospel in the first place. 00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:32.799 Like, how can you teach the gospel effectively to children if you don't understand it yourself? 00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:33.119 Yeah. 00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:35.759 So 15 blind trying to teach the blind. 00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:36.880 It's a blind guide. 00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:37.119 Yeah. 00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:38.160 It's exactly what it is. 00:32:38.319 --> 00:32:42.400 And so learning how to preach the gospel to kids when I was 15 and then onward to that. 00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:44.559 So that set the trajectory fair. 00:32:45.279 --> 00:32:50.720 When I got married, I'd brought pornography into marriage, and that was a hard time too. 00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:55.519 So so I never really fully got rid of that, that sin. 00:32:56.079 --> 00:32:59.680 And a lot of it was because I wasn't bringing it into the light as I should have been. 00:32:59.839 --> 00:33:04.000 But God used Valerie in a very, very loving and kind way. 00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:10.160 Obviously, I destroyed, you know, I I didn't destroy, but I I really wrecked Valerie. 00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:11.200 Yeah, damaged trust. 00:33:11.599 --> 00:33:13.440 Damaged a lot of trust. 00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:17.599 And yeah, so and some of that trust is still being built back to this day. 00:33:17.839 --> 00:33:22.079 And and I thank God that He's given me His grace. 00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:25.359 And it's only by His grace that I am able to continue to move forward. 00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:30.160 I'm very thankful that God has given me freedom from it. 00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:33.759 But in any case, that was formative. 00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:42.960 And once that stopped, and then we started to go into repair mode in our marriage, more things just started to click. 00:33:43.119 --> 00:33:46.079 And so that was 2020 when I confessed everything. 00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:51.519 In 2021, we we flipped the page, and I'm like, should I go to seminary? 00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:52.480 Should I not? 00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:55.039 I'm like, I'm Pastor Ryan is no longer here. 00:33:55.119 --> 00:33:58.160 I'm at Cross Point Bible, and I'm like helping teach youth group. 00:33:58.240 --> 00:33:59.680 I'm involved in different ways. 00:33:59.920 --> 00:34:03.599 But I'm like, Isaiah Lewis just left and I don't know what to do. 00:34:03.759 --> 00:34:04.799 This is 2020, right? 00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:05.759 And COVID's happening. 00:34:05.839 --> 00:34:07.359 So there's a lot of stuff going on. 00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:08.000 Yeah. 00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:15.599 We go into 2021 and I'm like, Valerie, we might need to consider going to Kansas City. 00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:18.000 So Spurgeon College is where I was taking online classes. 00:34:18.079 --> 00:34:22.239 The Bible college underneath Midwestern, Baptist Theological Seminary. 00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:25.920 And I was like, okay, let's consider this. 00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:27.280 And Valerie's like, I don't know. 00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:28.320 I don't want to move away. 00:34:28.480 --> 00:34:29.599 Our families are here. 00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:30.079 Yeah. 00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:33.199 And at this point, were you still wrestling with the call to ministry? 00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:34.719 Was that more solidified at this point? 00:34:34.880 --> 00:34:42.079 It was becoming more solidified, but I still had doubts because if you remember, like I really struggled with the whole military thing. 00:34:42.239 --> 00:34:42.559 Yeah. 00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:44.639 And that still was residual. 00:34:44.800 --> 00:34:45.119 Yeah. 00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:49.039 Like that was residual even somewhat when I was in seminary too. 00:34:49.519 --> 00:34:51.840 Like the military had a huge grip on my heart. 00:34:52.000 --> 00:35:05.760 Like it did not, it took years of me processing through things biblically to understand like your value and as a man does not revolve around your career. 00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:06.960 Like whatever it is. 00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:11.599 And you may not go do these accolades and these these amazing feats. 00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:13.360 That does not matter. 00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:16.320 But me to actually accept that was a whole nother thing. 00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:22.239 Like I may go through my whole life, Josh, and never be able to do the things that I initially set out to do. 00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:23.760 And that's what was hardest. 00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:33.360 Like go to other countries and and like even in the military, like go through some of that elite soldier training and do the things that, like, oh wow, I really wanted to do that. 00:35:33.440 --> 00:35:36.159 And become Jack Reacher again? 00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:37.039 Yeah, yeah. 00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:38.320 Tom Cruise, no. 00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:40.639 There's the new guy, the new actor, he's jacked. 00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:43.599 I mean, you get you definitely imitate his uh physique in that regard. 00:35:43.840 --> 00:35:44.480 No, I do not. 00:35:44.559 --> 00:35:46.239 That guy, that guy's on steroids. 00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:47.199 I do not take steroids. 00:35:47.599 --> 00:35:48.000 You heard it here. 00:35:48.159 --> 00:35:51.039 Zachary Hall is not on anabolic steroids. 00:35:51.599 --> 00:35:52.320 Can confirm. 00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:53.119 You heard it here. 00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:54.639 He is fully natural. 00:35:56.079 --> 00:35:58.400 And so, yeah. 00:35:58.559 --> 00:36:06.559 So 2021, we didn't make a decision, moved

to seminary, and we find ourselves going to One Old Road Baptist Church. 00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:07.440 Good church. 00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:08.000 Good church. 00:36:08.159 --> 00:36:09.760 And Mark Carrington was the pastor there. 00:36:10.719 --> 00:36:11.519 Beautiful church too. 00:36:11.679 --> 00:36:13.199 Architecture is gorgeous. 00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:13.599 Yeah. 00:36:13.760 --> 00:36:14.159 Yeah. 00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:16.239 It's one of the yeah, it's beautiful. 00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:18.960 And it's always been a Baptist church too, which is really unique about its history. 00:36:19.199 --> 00:36:19.920 Oh, what is that building? 00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:20.800 You would know, right? 00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:21.519 I didn't know. 00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:22.320 It's on their website. 00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:23.039 You can go check it out. 00:36:23.119 --> 00:36:24.079 Warner Road Baptist Church. 00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:26.400 Late 1800s, would that be Probably? 00:36:26.559 --> 00:36:26.719 Yeah. 00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:27.599 Yeah, that sounds right. 00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:28.880 Gorgeous building. 00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:29.599 Oh, it is. 00:36:29.679 --> 00:36:30.719 It's absolutely gorgeous. 00:36:31.199 --> 00:36:31.760 Taking care of it. 00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:32.159 Yes. 00:36:32.320 --> 00:36:37.360 And they have they they have they used to have carpet in their sanctuary, and now they don't. 00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:38.639 And it was a game changer. 00:36:38.880 --> 00:36:45.840 Pastor Ron isn't here, but Pastor Ron, if you're listening to this podcast, just want to double tap on what Zachary might have just said. 00:36:46.239 --> 00:36:47.360 Just a note. 00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:55.760 I heard that Pastor Eric Raymond before he before he left pulled up a corner of the carpet in the sanctuary. 00:36:56.639 --> 00:37:04.000 And underneath those blood-red carpets are beautiful hardwoods awaiting to be restored to their former glory. 00:37:04.239 --> 00:37:05.519 To their former glory. 00:37:05.679 --> 00:37:06.400 May it be so. 00:37:06.719 --> 00:37:07.360 Just kidding. 00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:12.159 So I go to Warner Baptist Church, Mark Carrington, and then Mark Carrington leaves. 00:37:12.320 --> 00:37:13.119 I know, man. 00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:16.239 And there, and granted, there was there was a hard situation there. 00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:16.559 Yeah. 00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:19.119 And Mark and Katie, I love their family. 00:37:19.280 --> 00:37:20.400 They made the right decision. 00:37:20.559 --> 00:37:22.639 I don't know exactly where Mark what Mark is doing now. 00:37:22.719 --> 00:37:23.840 I think he's still pastoring. 00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:26.239 But anyways, they laughed and I'm like, what's going on? 00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:31.760 Like every single place I'm at, like I was at one church and with Pastor Ryan, and then he leaves. 00:37:32.079 --> 00:37:34.000 I go to another church, cross point, Isaiah Lewis leaves. 00:37:34.159 --> 00:37:34.639 I go to another church. 00:37:34.800 --> 00:37:35.760 You're the common denominator. 00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:40.480 So obviously you were like the origin to all these all these pastors. 00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:42.559 They're like, ooh, Zach, let's let's not stay around. 00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:43.360 I've heard of this guy. 00:37:43.440 --> 00:37:44.559 He just dries guys out. 00:37:45.039 --> 00:37:48.079 Yeah, we no that's a no-fly zone. 00:37:48.400 --> 00:37:49.360 Stay away from Zach. 00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:51.360 And then Philip Van Steinberg comes in. 00:37:52.159 --> 00:37:55.280 Pastor Philip, he was pastoring out at Cape Cape Cod. 00:37:55.599 --> 00:37:57.039 Is that Massachusetts? 00:37:57.360 --> 00:37:58.079 It's in New England. 00:37:58.239 --> 00:37:58.880 It's in New England. 00:37:58.960 --> 00:38:00.480 A really hard place to minister. 00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:04.719 And anyways, Philip comes in and then he starts mentoring me. 00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:08.000 And man, Philip was such a blessing in my life. 00:38:08.239 --> 00:38:11.679 Yeah, seminary was very, very formative in a lot of different ways. 00:38:11.920 --> 00:38:22.559 So closing up this part of the story of calling, the calling really began in seminary when I was wrestling with military and not. 00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:27.280 I'm like, I think the Lord's called me to pastoral ministry, but I have no idea what that looks like. 00:38:27.440 --> 00:38:27.599 Yeah. 00:38:27.840 --> 00:38:37.599 And then me starting to be okay with what me saying that, and then when I gave it to the Lord, it's like, I want to be a pastor, but if I have to work a full-time job and be a pastor, then I guess so be it. 00:38:37.679 --> 00:38:37.920 Yeah. 00:38:38.079 --> 00:38:39.519 And like kind of things like that. 00:38:39.679 --> 00:38:45.920 And then long story short, graduated seminary, nothing came up, all the places I applied to. 00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:49.840 And then I ended up moving back here, attending Mayus Bible Church two months later. 00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:53.599 Thomas was like, Hey, you want to Pastor Thomas was like, hey, you want to do the residency? 00:38:53.760 --> 00:38:54.719 I was like, absolutely. 00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:55.360 Yeah. 00:38:56.400 --> 00:38:57.599 Thomas, can you mentor me? 00:38:57.679 --> 00:38:59.039 And then he leaves. 00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:01.199 I know. 00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:03.679 It's so funny to think about that. 00:39:03.760 --> 00:39:05.920 Thomas was like, I am not gonna stay here. 00:39:06.239 --> 00:39:09.440 I could do one year of Zachary, and then I needed to bolt. 00:39:09.599 --> 00:39:13.840 He was like, he was like, I'm gonna stay the manus for my whole life. 00:39:13.920 --> 00:39:19.280 And then I moved here in his first meeting with me, he was like, time to go. 00:39:19.840 --> 00:39:20.960 It is time to move on. 00:39:21.119 --> 00:39:27.920 I always thought Luke and Thomas would get buried in that side lot, just

holding hands, pastoring the other for 50 years. 00:39:28.239 --> 00:39:29.119 60 years. 00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:31.599 But Zachary, the the allergen. 00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:34.320 Yeah, I've come in and I've disrupted everything. 00:39:35.360 --> 00:39:37.119 That's a funny little providence. 00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:37.840 It is. 00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:38.320 It is. 00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:41.199 If you think about it, it's funny how God orchestrates things. 00:39:41.679 --> 00:39:45.920 So I'm thinking about some young guys in our church that might have desires for pastoral ministry. 00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:47.280 I think of like a Patrick Yonkers. 00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:53.039 I'm sure there's other guys either now or in the future who'll be wrestling with uh is the Lord calling me in ministry? 00:39:53.119 --> 00:39:53.519 Yeah. 00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:55.840 How would you counsel through that? 00:39:55.920 --> 00:40:00.880 Is that just I've heard the categories of there's the internal call, is there the desire within the young man? 00:40:01.119 --> 00:40:02.320 There's also the external call. 00:40:02.480 --> 00:40:08.079 Is there the church and the pastors to affirm and say, hey, I actually I see the spirit doing this in you? 00:40:08.239 --> 00:40:08.400 Yeah. 00:40:08.559 --> 00:40:22.639 Because a lot of times you have guys that have that internal call, but then externally the spirit's like using these congregations, churches, and pastors to say, That's not me speaking, that's just you having desires that aren't going to be affirmed here. 00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:23.360 Yeah. 00:40:23.599 --> 00:40:23.920 Yeah. 00:40:24.079 --> 00:40:24.719 That's a good question. 00:40:24.960 --> 00:40:26.000 So how would you navigate that? 00:40:26.239 --> 00:40:28.559 Yeah, I think or encourage young guys to navigate that. 00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:36.880 Yeah, I think one of the things that I was severely lacking in seminary was the ability to navigate that very question. 00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:44.639 Because in seminary, you get this over what I would call as an over-spiritualization of the call to ministry. 00:40:44.800 --> 00:40:45.119 Yeah. 00:40:45.280 --> 00:40:47.199 There does need to be an internal call. 00:40:47.440 --> 00:40:55.119 And simply what that is, if you look at the text, if you aspire to the office of overseer, you you you aspire to a noble task. 00:40:55.599 --> 00:41:00.639 That is a qualification that Paul lists for the office of elder, pastor, overseer. 00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:00.880 Correct. 00:41:01.119 --> 00:41:02.079 Three synonymous terms. 00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:03.360 First Timothy. 00:41:03.599 --> 00:41:25.679 And and the the internal call that I would refer to, without over-spiritualizing it, and maybe guys like Spurgeon or you know Martin Lowe Jones or guys would would discourage me from saying this, but what I will say is this is that the internal call is it accompanies that text one for one. 00:41:26.159 --> 00:41:33.119 The internal call is a desire for the office of overseer to be a pastor, to shepherd the flock. 00:41:33.360 --> 00:41:35.760 And you don't have to understand exactly what that looks like. 00:41:35.920 --> 00:41:38.880 You don't have to understand all the ins and outs because you're not going to. 00:41:39.119 --> 00:41:44.320 As a young man seeking to aspire to the office of overseer, you're not going to know all that. 00:41:44.400 --> 00:41:44.639 Yeah. 00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:50.960 But what is important is to distinguish the desires of your heart and understand what you're thinking and feeling. 00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:51.440 Yeah. 00:41:51.679 --> 00:41:55.679 And the best way to navigate that is I would say three things. 00:41:55.920 --> 00:41:56.400 Two things. 00:41:56.480 --> 00:41:58.719 We'll sum it up to two things: prayer and reading. 00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:01.920 So continue to dive into the word of God and prayer. 00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:02.320 Yeah. 00:42:02.559 --> 00:42:08.960 You're not going to be able to shepherd the flock of God effectively at all or oversee the flock of God without being a man of prayer. 00:42:09.679 --> 00:42:11.599 The second thing is wise counsel. 00:42:11.679 --> 00:42:13.440 And that's where the external call comes in. 00:42:13.519 --> 00:42:14.079 Yeah. 00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:27.679 I in seminary, you have guys, it's like I'm I'm called to be a pastor, and then they go and they apply, and then the the church goes through an affirmation process, and then he gets called by the church, and then and then they he goes. 00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:42.400 The process that I would want to encourage all young men, and I would hope as a as a as in evangelicalism in general, yeah, the trend I hope I want to see is where churches are starting to raise up men from within them. 00:42:42.639 --> 00:42:49.920 So when a man comes to me or comes to a pastor and says, Hey, I think I have a call to ministry, a lot of pastors will be like, okay, great, go to seminary. 00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:50.159 Yeah. 00:42:50.320 --> 00:42:51.920 It's like, you know, get out of my docket. 00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:53.920 I don't just just go to seminary because they're equipped for that. 00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:55.760 I'm not getting a piece of paper and then we'll talk. 00:42:56.000 --> 00:42:56.719 Right, right. 00:42:56.880 --> 00:43:02.480 And it's like that's just that's just reading books and writing papers. 00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:03.119 Yeah. 00:43:03.360 --> 00:43:05.360 Like And there's a need for that. 00:43:05.519 --> 00:43:06.400 But that's 100%. 00:43:06.800 --> 00:43:07.679 That's not the totality. 00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:09.280 That's one piece. 00:43:09.519 --> 00:43:16.639 Yeah, that's and I don't there's a pastor I knew about that's been faithfully past I don't remember who he is. 00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:18.719 I'm blanking right now, but yeah. 00:43:18.960 --> 00:43:22.800 He only has a bachelor's degree and he's been faithfully

shepherding for like a long time. 00:43:22.880 --> 00:43:34.320 And I guarantee you, Josh, that you can find hundreds and thousands of pastors who don't have seminary education who are far more loving, faithful shepherds than some men with seminary or even doctorate degrees. 00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:34.559 Yeah. 00:43:34.880 --> 00:43:44.159 I'm pretty sure Eric Raymond, the funny pastor of Emmaus, who he's in Boston now, but he writes for lighenier, table talk, gospel coalition, desiring God. 00:43:44.639 --> 00:43:46.480 If I remember correctly, he only has a bachelor's. 00:43:46.639 --> 00:43:48.800 He does not have any any seminary education. 00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:51.280 And that was by the God's divine providence. 00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:54.000 And Eric is also uniquely gifted in certain areas, too. 00:43:54.079 --> 00:43:54.239 Yeah. 00:43:54.400 --> 00:43:55.760 So we have to keep those into account as well. 00:43:55.840 --> 00:43:59.280 Like not He's not prescriptive by any means, because he has a very talented. 00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:00.400 Brother. 00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:01.599 He's a very gifted brother. 00:44:01.840 --> 00:44:10.400 And what so what I would say about calling is one of the things that I realized excuse me, I want to back up. 00:44:10.559 --> 00:44:22.239 One of the things that God made me realize was that you need to have a group of men verify you as having the gifting of a pastor, of a preacher. 00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:31.440 And when we talk about external calling, I believe that is a job of the local church to affirm and to verify. 00:44:31.599 --> 00:44:31.920 Yeah. 00:44:32.239 --> 00:44:33.280 So that's redundant. 00:44:33.360 --> 00:44:35.840 So just to verify that the internal call. 00:44:35.920 --> 00:44:36.079 Yeah. 00:44:36.239 --> 00:44:39.119 So what I would say to young man is like, great, you have a desire. 00:44:39.280 --> 00:44:39.519 Yeah. 00:44:39.679 --> 00:44:40.400 That's awesome. 00:44:40.639 --> 00:44:42.320 Like, let's let's talk about that. 00:44:42.480 --> 00:44:43.280 Let's meet about that. 00:44:43.360 --> 00:44:44.480 Let's let's work through this. 00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:45.519 Let's continue to study. 00:44:45.679 --> 00:44:46.480 Let's continue to pray. 00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:47.760 Let's continue to do these things. 00:44:47.920 --> 00:44:54.320 Let's not jump to seminary just yet because let that's a big life change, especially if you have kids, you're gonna move your family down there. 00:44:54.480 --> 00:44:55.679 Like, let's talk about this. 00:44:55.840 --> 00:45:01.039 And then with that, if God continues to reveal like this, I have this call. 00:45:01.119 --> 00:45:03.440 It's like, okay, let's look at next steps. 00:45:03.760 --> 00:45:11.920 And we also want to before we send our men away from seminary or better, yeah, just take online classes and continue to grow within the church. 00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:20.000 Yeah, is you need to be able to, as a young man, submit yourself to the authority of the pastors. 00:45:20.159 --> 00:45:20.400 Yeah. 00:45:20.639 --> 00:45:28.000 And so I told myself when I came to Emmaus, and I told Valerie this, and I think she I think she I'm pretty sure I told Valerie this. 00:45:28.239 --> 00:45:28.639 Yeah. 00:45:28.880 --> 00:45:35.920 Is when I moved to, when we moved to Emmaus, I was like, all right, applied to all these things, nothing's panning out. 00:45:36.880 --> 00:45:38.239 I'm gonna go to Emmaus. 00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:54.000 And if they're not going to verify, like if they're not going to affirm me as being a pastor, yeah, and I I'm missing the word that affirm, meaning like, hey brother, we see God's hand in this, yeah, you're you're godly, you're qualified, and we agree with your internal call that you are called to ministry. 00:45:54.239 --> 00:45:55.119 Thank you for wording it. 00:45:55.199 --> 00:45:56.320 You worded it way better than I did. 00:45:56.400 --> 00:46:04.880 So it I basically was like you could have also said, hey brother, we know that you have this desire, but we want to just humbly, soberly tell you we don't see the qualifications. 00:46:04.960 --> 00:46:05.119 Correct. 00:46:05.360 --> 00:46:06.320 We do not see the gifting. 00:46:06.559 --> 00:46:06.880 Correct. 00:46:07.119 --> 00:46:11.679 You might have this desire, but we don't believe that that desire is legitimate. 00:46:11.920 --> 00:46:12.800 Yeah, exactly. 00:46:13.199 --> 00:46:16.480 It's a personal desire, it's not a desire placed on you from the Lord. 00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:23.039 Or or even say, like, hey, I think the desire is good, but I don't think you're gifted uniquely for full-time vocational ministry. 00:46:23.360 --> 00:46:24.400 It doesn't mean you can't serve the church. 00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:33.440 You can be a deacon, you can be a Sunday school teacher, you can be a small group leader, but in regards to the office of elder, yeah, that would not be a door that would be open for you. 00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:34.079 Correct. 00:46:34.159 --> 00:46:35.280 And that's what I was submitting to. 00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:38.320 So I was like, Emmaus is the church we're going to. 00:46:38.480 --> 00:46:41.920 They aligned with us ecclesiologically, theologically, all those things. 00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:42.480 Yeah. 00:46:42.880 --> 00:47:13.199 And I was like, okay, if the pastors of Emmaus say this or that, and I this all came out like in my residency, six months into my residency, there was stuff going on, and and I was talking to Thomas, and there's stuff I was struggling with, and and and as we do, and I remember Luke and Thomas coming over to our house, our old house, our condo that we were living in at the time, and Thomas and Luke, or Thomas basically said to me, is like, hey brother, I don't, I don't really think you're ready. 00:47:13.280 --> 00:47:17.119 Because I was talking a lot about like next steps after the first year of residency, pastoral ministry. 00:47:17.199 -->

00:47:18.559 I was getting like really amped up. 00:47:18.639 --> 00:47:18.960 Yeah. 00:47:19.119 --> 00:47:22.000 And he was basically like, dude, you gotta slow down. 00:47:22.719 --> 00:47:27.840 And I I I cried, I was a ball in in that meeting because I was staying true. 00:47:27.920 --> 00:47:29.440 I wanted to stay true to what I said before. 00:47:29.519 --> 00:47:34.639 It's like not that the God has given the keys to the local church. 00:47:34.960 --> 00:47:47.599 And we want to think about this biblically and not like just philosophically out there, but biblically, like the keys to the kingdom belong to the church, and like that, we're a congregationally ruled church, yeah, led by faithful men of God. 00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:58.719 Yeah, and and and also it's in Hebrews that we're supposed to submit to the pastors and elders over us for their watching over our souls. 00:47:58.880 --> 00:48:04.719 And it's like, okay, I wanted to submit to that, and that's where those tears, it's like, oh man, like did I screw everything up? 00:48:04.880 --> 00:48:06.000 Am I not doing the right things? 00:48:06.159 --> 00:48:06.800 All this and that. 00:48:06.880 --> 00:48:10.400 And it's like that was a huge humility check for me. 00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:27.760 And I'm gonna commend you for that because I'm sure there's plenty of men who would have the aspiration that you had for ministry, yeah, and they would hear that word from Thomas and just leave and find a weaker church that had a lower standard that would then put them, though they're not qualified to be so, they would put them in the position to be a pastor. 00:48:27.920 --> 00:48:32.480 So for you to actually not only submit, but then actually work to become no. 00:48:32.559 --> 00:48:33.840 I think submission's a good word. 00:48:33.920 --> 00:48:34.239 Yeah. 00:48:34.480 --> 00:48:42.960 And that's by the grace of God, because I had just gone through over three three-ish years of seminary, Bible college, whatever, graduated. 00:48:43.039 --> 00:48:44.239 It was a lot for my family. 00:48:44.719 --> 00:48:45.840 I was working. 00:48:46.079 --> 00:48:49.360 We had Matthias and Ransom when we were down there. 00:48:49.519 --> 00:48:51.039 Valerie was a trooper. 00:48:51.599 --> 00:48:54.000 She was struggling with community down there. 00:48:54.159 --> 00:48:55.519 Like things are just hard. 00:48:55.760 --> 00:48:58.639 We were away from all of our family, which is actually really good for our marriage. 00:48:58.880 --> 00:48:59.760 Things are just hard. 00:49:00.079 --> 00:49:04.239 And then to move back, and I'm really excited, and then to hear someone say, like, you might have to wait a few more years. 00:49:04.400 --> 00:49:07.679 Like, I don't really know what and I'm like, what? 00:49:08.079 --> 00:49:08.320 Yep. 00:49:08.559 --> 00:49:11.760 And I'm already not enjoying the work that I'm doing, which is my own fault. 00:49:11.920 --> 00:49:12.159 Yep. 00:49:12.320 --> 00:49:13.519 It's a

hard place to be. 00:49:13.679 --> 00:49:14.000 Yeah. 00:49:14.639 --> 00:49:23.920 But in that, God just yeah, God is just so kind to me, despite my stupidity. 00:49:25.199 --> 00:49:26.000 It's true. 00:49:26.159 --> 00:49:32.239 Like, I'm a I the dis anyway, so so all that to say, like, I don't remember what the question was. 00:49:32.400 --> 00:49:37.119 Oh, yeah, calling is if there's an internal call, don't ignore it. 00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:37.440 Yeah. 00:49:37.599 --> 00:49:49.119 Pers continue to pursue the holy things, bible, Bible prayer, but then have start to have conversations, but do not jump to the gun of thinking, oh, I have this call, gonna be a pastor. 00:49:49.280 --> 00:49:51.440 It's like, well, you need to three weeks, yeah. 00:49:51.519 --> 00:49:57.280 Yeah, you need to be willing as a man to have humility and submit yourself to the authority of the local church. 00:49:57.440 --> 00:49:57.760 Yes. 00:49:57.920 --> 00:50:03.519 Because it's the authority of the local church that that that like is the pillar and the buttress of the truth. 00:50:03.599 --> 00:50:06.239 What we just finished in Sunday evenings, First Timothy. 00:50:06.559 --> 00:50:08.079 Missionaries don't make themselves missionaries. 00:50:08.239 --> 00:50:11.360 No churches commission and send out missionaries. 00:50:11.679 --> 00:50:13.599 Pastors do not make themselves pastors. 00:50:13.840 --> 00:50:18.559 Churches affirm and vote and raise up a pastor to shepherd them. 00:50:18.800 --> 00:50:21.920 And that's not because that's not because we as a church want to be controlling. 00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:23.199 That's just how God has set it up. 00:50:23.280 --> 00:50:25.760 And we would avoid wolves in the pulpit. 00:50:25.840 --> 00:50:26.000 Correct. 00:50:26.239 --> 00:50:30.559 If you have a man who's not willing to submit to the church, which is Christ's body, he's not going to submit to anything. 00:50:31.039 --> 00:50:34.800 He's going to tyrannize the text and he's going to crush the sheep. 00:50:35.519 --> 00:50:35.840 Yeah. 00:50:36.000 --> 00:50:36.960 He's going to, yeah. 00:50:37.280 --> 00:50:47.199 So it's it is actually better this way that the church, the congregation, is the one electing and raising up officers, missionaries, pastors, deacons, instead of these men elevating themselves. 00:50:47.440 --> 00:50:47.840 Correct. 00:50:47.920 --> 00:50:48.320 Yeah. 00:50:48.559 --> 00:50:49.119 Correct. 00:50:49.360 --> 00:50:54.000 So that's what I would say for men who are aspiring is praise God. 00:50:54.159 --> 00:50:55.599 We need more faithful men. 00:50:55.679 --> 00:50:56.320 Yeah. 00:50:56.559 --> 00:50:59.920 Let's let's walk that path together and let's like be serious about it. 00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:01.199 Let's not be nonchalant about it. 00:51:01.280 --> 00:51:01.440 Yeah. 00:51:01.599 --> 00:51:05.679 Because that's not every man, like a lot of men don't have that calling at all. 00:51:06.000 --> 00:51:09.599 And like I've even faithful men in our church, they're like, you know, do you aspire? 00:51:09.679 --> 00:51:10.639 And they're like, nope. 00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:13.519 And it's like, all right, praise God, you're a faithful brother. 00:51:13.679 --> 00:51:19.440 It kind of surprises me sometimes, but God, yeah, He He God chooses whom He wills. 00:51:19.599 --> 00:51:23.280 And like the spirit goes where it wills. 00:51:23.360 --> 00:51:23.679 Yeah. 00:51:23.840 --> 00:51:26.880 So He He directs and guides us accordingly. 00:51:26.960 --> 00:51:38.800 So I think one conclusion, if there's a young guy listening who wants to, who has thoughts or questions of ooh, I I might be interested in pursuing ministry, maybe if there's one takeaway from this conversation, it's never a clear path. 00:51:39.039 --> 00:51:39.360 No. 00:51:39.599 --> 00:51:43.039 There's lots of turns, twists, it is a fog in the moment. 00:51:43.199 --> 00:51:44.800 It's unclear in the moment. 00:51:44.960 --> 00:51:48.880 And then you get to the end, and you're like, oh, it actually makes a lot of sense now. 00:51:48.960 --> 00:51:52.480 I see why the Lord made it hard and challenging. 00:51:52.639 --> 00:51:52.800 Yeah. 00:51:53.039 --> 00:51:56.000 Because if you actually are called to ministry, that's what ministry is. 00:51:56.159 --> 00:51:56.400 Yeah. 00:51:56.559 --> 00:52:07.760 I I don't know about you when you were at Spurgeon College, when I was at Indian Wesley doing Bible college, there's just kind of this young and naive idea that ministry is just going to be going from victory to victory, success to success, salvation to salvation, great sermon to great sermon. 00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:09.519 There's definitely a honeymoon phase. 00:52:09.679 --> 00:52:09.920 Yeah. 00:52:10.159 --> 00:52:11.440 And I think I can say this. 00:52:11.599 --> 00:52:15.199 I remember like when I came, Thomas was a brand new pastor. 00:52:15.679 --> 00:52:29.360 And three years in, I just had this thought of I can see like the it's it's had a physical kind of like you see like the pictures of Obama before he became president after he became president. 00:52:29.679 --> 00:52:33.760 I'm not saying Thomas that you looked horrendous three years into ministry if you're listening to this. 00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:40.480 I'm just saying I remember telling him and Luke, like, I can see like it had there's you've been weathered in a good way. 00:52:41.280 --> 00:52:48.239 To to explain that more, like in Lord of the Rings, it describes Aragorn as a man who had seen many winters. 00:52:48.559 --> 00:52:55.360 And I think that's just a great line from Tolkien, regardless, but I could see how that line to some extent pastorally applied to Thomas. 00:52:55.519 --> 00:52:55.840 Yeah. 00:52:56.079 --> 00:53:04.000 There was Thomas before he had seen some winters in ministry, then there was Thomas after he had seen some winters, some cold frosts in ministry. 00:53:04.159 --> 00:53:04.320 Yeah. 00:53:04.480 -->

00:53:09.519 When he had been with the sheep in their sorrows, in their hurts, in their pains, in their trials. 00:53:09.679 --> 00:53:09.920 Yes. 00:53:10.159 --> 00:53:13.039 Yes, there are joys, there are awesome parts of ministry. 00:53:13.280 --> 00:53:17.920 A lot of ministry, though, is you slowly suffering with the sheep. 00:53:18.079 --> 00:53:18.639 Yeah. 00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:23.840 Well, it's smelling like the sheep is going to take a toll and and in some extent. 00:53:23.920 --> 00:53:29.920 And I think this on a on a lighthearted note, it's one of the things I thought about, like, huh? 00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:32.559 Valerie's already mentioned how I'm thinning out in the back. 00:53:32.960 --> 00:53:37.760 I wonder, man, if the Lord calls I know functionally bald is funny. 00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:44.800 I wonder if the Lord ever puts me into a pastoral role that I go bald very quickly. 00:53:45.039 --> 00:53:45.519 Oh, yeah. 00:53:45.679 --> 00:53:46.159 We'll see. 00:53:46.320 --> 00:53:46.559 Yeah. 00:53:46.719 --> 00:53:49.280 But Thomas, you still look handsome if you're still listening to this. 00:53:49.519 --> 00:53:50.159 Yeah. 00:53:50.480 --> 00:53:51.119 Yeah. 00:53:52.559 --> 00:53:53.440 Wonderful. 00:53:54.000 --> 00:54:17.119 But the other thing I would add to the calling thing, just piggyback off what you said real quick, is is with men who are pursuing, like, one of the things that I think that I wish I would have been told more forcefully, especially like coming out of high school and coming out of the military, and like when I would talk about desire of ministry and stuff, is like personal holiness. 00:54:18.079 --> 00:54:20.079 Like how crucial that actually is. 00:54:20.239 --> 00:54:20.719 Yes. 00:54:21.039 --> 00:54:23.119 Not just for ministers, but for men. 00:54:23.360 --> 00:54:37.119 Like if you're a man and you want to lead your family well, you want to get married, you want to even if you're not married and you want to just lead well in your workplace and in your church, your holiness matters. 00:54:37.760 --> 00:54:42.400 And we can't minimize that. 00:54:42.559 --> 00:54:48.639 We also need to walk in grace that the Lord has set before us because of what he's done for us. 00:54:48.719 --> 00:54:48.960 Yeah. 00:54:49.119 --> 00:54:53.840 But we can't minimize personal holiness in every single aspect of our lives. 00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:56.320 So last November we had that Simeon Trust workshop. 00:54:56.400 --> 00:55:10.000 Kevin McKay given his lecture on the holiness of the man, the preacher, and just this incredible succinct quote where he said, as a pastor, the best thing that you can offer your church is not actually your preaching or your prayer. 00:55:10.159 --> 00:55:13.119 The best thing you can offer your church is your personal holiness. 00:55:13.440 --> 00:55:15.679 And guess who told me that yesterday? 00:55:16.159 --> 00:55:17.440 Pastor Luke. 00:55:17.920 --> 00:55:18.400 So yeah. 00:55:18.639 --> 00:55:18.800 Yeah. 00:55:18.960 --> 00:55:23.039 I just want to commend the pastors at our church, uh, Luke, Ron, Thomas before he left. 00:55:23.199 --> 00:55:26.239 These are these are men who just embody personal holiness. 00:55:26.400 --> 00:55:30.239 By no means are they perfect, but you look at them and they just man. 00:55:31.119 --> 00:55:34.639 Men who understand the high standard. 00:55:35.119 --> 00:55:44.000 And they don't hold that standard in a way that prides them or makes them haughty, fills them with pride or arrogance, makes them think they're better than other people. 00:55:44.239 --> 00:55:48.079 But just this incredible humility and holiness. 00:55:48.239 --> 00:55:55.440 So and to yeah, and to close out your question on call to ministry, I'll just say this for me so I can kind of wrap everything up. 00:55:55.599 --> 00:55:55.760 Yeah. 00:55:56.079 --> 00:56:06.079 Is my call to ministry was a series of events where God was continuing to humble me before him and understand that his ways are better than my ways. 00:56:06.480 --> 00:56:10.480 And the desires I had to do ministry were good. 00:56:10.960 --> 00:56:13.199 To do pastoral ministry were good. 00:56:13.440 --> 00:56:16.960 But the way I was trying to get there wasn't necessarily good all the time. 00:56:17.119 --> 00:56:26.000 Like I desired to teach, I desired to preach the word of God, I desired to disciple, to lead men and all of those things to shepherd the flock of God. 00:56:26.079 --> 00:56:27.440 I desire to do those things. 00:56:28.079 --> 00:56:33.599 And the call to ministry for me wasn't like some guys, it's a clear, shining moment. 00:56:33.760 --> 00:56:39.679 For me, it was just been a process of God just working and really humbling me before him. 00:56:39.920 --> 00:56:43.360 And he still is humbling me and will be till the day that I die. 00:56:43.519 --> 00:56:45.119 So that's great. 00:56:45.280 --> 00:56:45.920 Yeah. 00:56:47.920 --> 00:56:48.239 All right. 00:56:48.320 --> 00:56:50.719 So you mentioned some influential people in your life a little bit earlier. 00:56:50.880 --> 00:56:58.079 I heard Pastor Ryan, I heard Mark Harrington, and then the brother at Ornal Road now, I forget his name. 00:56:58.320 --> 00:56:58.800 Pastor Phillip. 00:56:58.880 --> 00:56:58.960 Yeah. 00:56:59.119 --> 00:56:59.280 Philip. 00:56:59.519 --> 00:57:01.360 So I didn't really get much time with Pastor Mark. 00:57:01.440 --> 00:57:02.400 It was Pastor Philip. 00:57:02.480 --> 00:57:04.719 So Philip Van Steenberg, he was very influential. 00:57:04.800 --> 00:57:05.039 Yeah. 00:57:05.199 --> 00:57:05.519 Yeah. 00:57:05.760 --> 00:57:10.159 So for some influential people in your lives, were there any influential books or experiences that you've had? 00:57:10.480 --> 00:57:13.840 And I also Paul Washer was very influential in high school for me. 00:57:13.920 --> 00:57:14.079 Yeah. 00:57:14.239 --> 00:57:16.559 Like I mentioned that as a as a thing.

00:57:18.239 --> 00:57:21.440 And then I will I will say also like Pastor Thomas before he left. 00:57:21.519 --> 00:57:22.880 He he really poured into me. 00:57:22.960 --> 00:57:25.119 So I'm very thankful for my time with him. 00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:26.960 For influential books, you said? 00:57:27.199 --> 00:57:27.360 Yeah. 00:57:27.519 --> 00:57:28.719 Influential books, experiences. 00:57:29.039 --> 00:57:32.159 One of the best books that I've ever read that not many people know about. 00:57:32.239 --> 00:57:34.079 And it's for people who just come to know the Lord. 00:57:34.239 --> 00:57:37.599 But it was influential for me after having been a Christian for a long time. 00:57:37.760 --> 00:57:41.039 For like maybe I read it when I was like a Christian for like 10 years. 00:57:41.360 --> 00:57:44.079 It's called Follow the Lamb by Horatius Bonar. 00:57:44.239 --> 00:57:45.519 And it's that Scottish minister. 00:57:45.760 --> 00:57:46.000 Okay. 00:57:46.079 --> 00:57:48.559 Give me that title and name one more time slowly. 00:57:48.800 --> 00:57:52.400 So Follow the Lamb by Horatius Bonar. 00:57:52.480 --> 00:57:53.119 Horatius Minister. 00:57:53.280 --> 00:57:55.840 So the last name is B-O-N-A-R. 00:57:56.239 --> 00:57:56.400 Okay. 00:57:56.559 --> 00:57:58.559 And the Scottish minister. 00:57:58.639 --> 00:58:05.679 He is the brother of the Andrew Bonar, I believe, who is more popular. 00:58:06.079 --> 00:58:14.719 But, anyways, his book, Follow the Lamb, it's like one of those, it's a short book, really easy to get through, and it's riddled with scriptural references. 00:58:14.880 --> 00:58:20.639 Like if you want to understand how to be a Christian when you just become a Christian, follow the Lamb, read that book. 00:58:20.960 --> 00:58:21.199 Great. 00:58:21.440 --> 00:58:25.280 Another book, Gospel Primer by Milton Vincent, was really good. 00:58:25.360 --> 00:58:26.000 I read that. 00:58:26.079 --> 00:58:27.519 I think I listened to it first and read that. 00:58:28.079 --> 00:58:28.880 That was really good. 00:58:29.039 --> 00:58:35.280 As far as like theologically influential, I studied underneath Barrett, who is now an Anglican. 00:58:35.599 --> 00:58:40.559 But when he was when we were at Midwestern, when I was at Midwestern, Anglicans are also brothers in Christ. 00:58:40.639 --> 00:58:46.719 Just to clarify, you weren't saying that they're like, you know, no, I'm not saying they're heretics, but but we definitely have disagreements with Anglicans. 00:58:46.800 --> 00:58:47.360 Yes. 00:58:47.679 --> 00:58:50.880 And and it depends on what kind of like sect of Anglicanism that you're into. 00:58:51.360 --> 00:58:53.360 So with with Dr. 00:58:53.599 --> 00:58:56.719 Matthew Barrett, I learned classical theism. 00:58:56.880 --> 00:58:58.639 And he has a book called Simply Trinity. 00:58:58.719 --> 00:58:59.039 Yeah. 00:58:59.280 --> 00:59:01.440 And it's funny how I took the order of classes. 00:59:01.519 --> 00:59:08.079 So he has these like master level classes that are designed to be taken after his theology classes. 00:59:08.639 --> 00:59:09.920 He has theology one and two. 00:59:10.239 --> 00:59:13.519 And I and then he has it, then he has like a class called Doctrine of God. 00:59:13.679 --> 00:59:14.000 Yeah. 00:59:14.159 --> 00:59:16.719 I took the doctrine of God class first. 00:59:16.800 --> 00:59:23.119 And and Josh, like and church listening, like I had no prior background to classical theism. 00:59:23.280 --> 00:59:25.920 Like I knew For those who don't know, what is classical theism? 00:59:26.320 --> 00:59:38.639 Classical theism is really just so so theology, the study of God, classical theology, classical theism, who God is, a classical understanding of who God is. 00:59:38.800 --> 00:59:43.280 So we have a more modern understanding today in general, evangelicalism. 00:59:43.679 --> 00:59:44.239 Post-Elightenment. 00:59:44.400 --> 00:59:53.199 Post-Enlightenment phase, where I mean you have Wayne Grudom's systematic theology, but when you get into the classical theology, you're you're actually reading like the patristics. 00:59:53.360 --> 00:59:55.519 So that involves like early church fathers. 00:59:55.679 --> 01:00:01.199 We're talking way before the Reformation, Augustine, the first 500 years of the church. 01:00:01.360 --> 01:00:15.039 You have a lot of these early, what we call early church fathers who like so Athanasius, he wrote on the incarnation, and it was just still to this day, yeah. 01:00:15.360 --> 01:00:22.000 A very, very just great book on Christ becoming flesh, like John 1 14. 01:00:22.239 --> 01:00:22.320 Yeah. 01:00:22.400 --> 01:00:25.199 He has a line what is not assumed is not healed. 01:00:25.360 --> 01:00:26.559 So it says that in the book. 01:00:26.800 --> 01:00:26.880 Yes. 01:00:26.960 --> 01:00:28.320 So in Christmas incarnation. 01:00:28.639 --> 01:00:30.159 That's just the one-liner I know. 01:00:30.400 --> 01:00:31.920 It's not photographic by any means. 01:00:32.159 --> 01:00:32.880 Got it, got it. 01:00:33.039 --> 01:00:38.719 So so I would say classical theism and learning that was so I took anyways. 01:00:38.880 --> 01:00:39.840 I took doctrine of God. 01:00:39.920 --> 01:00:41.039 That's what classical theism is. 01:00:41.119 --> 01:00:41.280 Yeah. 01:00:41.440 --> 01:00:43.199 Doctrine of God was the class I took. 01:00:43.280 --> 01:00:45.599 And you're supposed to have taken theology one and two before that. 01:00:45.679 --> 01:00:51.679 And and and with Doctrine of God, they have this book by Edward Faser. 01:00:52.000 --> 01:00:55.440 It's called Five Proofs for the Existence of God. 01:00:55.599 --> 01:00:57.119 It's a very heavy. 01:00:57.519 --> 01:01:02.400 So this class is like you're like at this point theologically, you're you're kind of still like an infant. 01:01:02.559 --> 01:01:07.760 And then instead of doing like the crawling and walking class, you just went to like Olympic gymnastics. 01:01:07.920 -->

01:01:13.280 I went straight to doing a full-length Iron Man without no previous training. 01:01:13.440 --> 01:01:13.599 Yeah. 01:01:13.760 --> 01:01:25.360 And I was soaking, I mean I was learning about stuff like simplicity and the assayity of God, stuff that Pastor Fudge was talking about, Pastor Matt was talking about in Sunday school Sunday. 01:01:25.679 --> 01:01:30.320 And yeah, man, it was it was really it was really formative for me. 01:01:30.400 --> 01:01:36.639 So simply Trinity, None Greater, Five Fruits for the Existence of God, some of those patristic books. 01:01:36.960 --> 01:01:37.760 Those are influential. 01:01:37.920 --> 01:01:51.280 And then I mean, I've read a lot of books, and I'm working on like a style of reading where I'm able to retain more specifically from books, but like there's books I definitely recommend that were influential at the time, but yeah. 01:01:51.519 --> 01:01:51.760 Yeah. 01:01:52.000 --> 01:01:58.400 If I give kind of a closing loop to the classical theism topic, for those who are still maybe what is classical theism? 01:01:58.639 --> 01:02:04.079 Classical theism preserves that God is distinct and different from us. 01:02:04.320 --> 01:02:21.360 A lot of theology today about God, the newer theism, the newer theology, the way to think about God, attempts to not that it always leads to heresy, but it it does lead to issues, and that is they try to understand God in a way that he is much more like us. 01:02:22.079 --> 01:02:30.000 And the issue is there is a creator creation distinction where yes, we're made in God's image, but God is very different from us. 01:02:30.480 --> 01:02:46.079 And so classical theism preserves to a better degree that creator creation distinction, that creator creature distinction, and says, yes, Romaina's image, but he is in many ways, has attributes that are just distinct, different, infinitely different from us. 01:02:46.559 --> 01:02:53.440 Whereas a lot of the post-Elightenment theology about God tries to take God and conform him more into the image of man, if you will. 01:02:53.760 --> 01:02:54.639 To be like us. 01:02:54.880 --> 01:02:55.280 Yes. 01:02:55.840 --> 01:02:57.360 Yeah, that's a great way to say it. 01:02:57.440 --> 01:02:58.159 That's perfect. 01:02:58.480 --> 01:02:58.880 Great. 01:02:59.039 --> 01:02:59.679 Yeah. 01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:03.760 Well, we're about an hour in, so I was thinking we could do some rapid-fire questions. 01:03:03.920 --> 01:03:04.159 Okay. 01:03:04.480 --> 01:03:06.320 So these must be fun questions. 01:03:06.559 --> 01:03:09.119 I've never shown you these, so it'll be really fun to get your reactions. 01:03:09.280 --> 01:03:09.840 Yeah, no kidding. 01:03:11.519 --> 01:03:11.920 All right. 01:03:12.159 --> 01:03:14.159 You you can't belabor these points, brother. 01:03:14.320 --> 01:03:15.599 You just gotta bam. 01:03:15.920 --> 01:03:16.800 I want quick answers. 01:03:17.039 --> 01:03:17.360 Oh man. 01:03:17.440 --> 01:03:17.599 All right. 01:03:17.760 --> 01:03:18.960 Off the top, off the cuff. 01:03:19.199 --> 01:03:22.079 I don't know any of these questions that he's about to ask me, just so you guys. 01:03:22.400 --> 01:03:25.280 I'll start off with some easy ones, and we'll get get a little spicy. 01:03:25.440 --> 01:03:25.760 Okay. 01:03:26.079 --> 01:03:27.440 In a good way, not in a bad way. 01:03:27.599 --> 01:03:27.920 Okay. 01:03:28.159 --> 01:03:28.480 All right. 01:03:28.639 --> 01:03:29.679 Easy one, here we go. 01:03:29.920 --> 01:03:31.360 Mountains or beach? 01:03:32.079 --> 01:03:32.639 Beach. 01:03:32.800 --> 01:03:33.199 Alright. 01:03:33.360 --> 01:03:34.400 A little harder one. 01:03:34.639 --> 01:03:36.800 Any run-ins with the law. 01:03:37.599 --> 01:03:39.199 Run-ins with the law, yes. 01:03:39.519 --> 01:03:40.719 Do you care to elaborate? 01:03:40.960 --> 01:03:44.480 Yeah, when I was I was being I was going to a men's Bible study in Platsmouth. 01:03:44.639 --> 01:03:45.440 This is funny how this starts. 01:03:45.599 --> 01:03:46.639 Platzmith Bible Church. 01:03:46.800 --> 01:03:48.960 Platmith Bible Church, Pastor Mike Wolf. 01:03:49.119 --> 01:03:56.639 And the guy there, and his name was Nick something, and he's now, I think, a police officer, OPD, but he was at Platsmouth Department, police department at the time. 01:03:56.880 --> 01:04:00.400 And I'm driving down the hill where I usually drive down by Buccaneer Bay. 01:04:00.480 --> 01:04:02.159 Many of our Buccaneer Bay folks know what I'm talking about. 01:04:02.960 --> 01:04:05.119 McQueens and Vromans and stuff. 01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:08.159 And I was driving down the hill and he pulled me over and he knew me. 01:04:08.239 --> 01:04:12.880 And I looked up to him and he wrote me an over a hundred dollar ticket because it was a speed trap. 01:04:12.960 --> 01:04:14.400 And that was very difficult. 01:04:14.800 --> 01:04:19.760 John McQueen, when I I moved in with him for two months when I first moved here, and that was the first thing he told me. 01:04:19.840 --> 01:04:25.039 He's like, hey, brother, when you come down this road, you gotta watch those speed signs because they will trap you. 01:04:25.280 --> 01:04:26.079 They trap you. 01:04:26.239 --> 01:04:26.960 So you get trapped. 01:04:27.280 --> 01:04:28.239 I I got trapped. 01:04:28.400 --> 01:04:30.719 I got got as far as like run-ins with the law. 01:04:30.800 --> 01:04:31.920 I never got arrested or anything. 01:04:32.159 --> 01:04:32.400 Good. 01:04:32.559 --> 01:04:35.039 But I did very foolish, stupid things in high school. 01:04:35.119 --> 01:04:35.679 But yeah, anyways. 01:04:35.920 --> 01:04:36.960 I could have got you arrested. 01:04:37.119 --> 01:04:37.440 Yeah. 01:04:38.239 --> 01:04:39.039 As we all did. 01:04:39.280 --> 01:04:39.679 Probably. 01:04:39.760 --> 01:04:40.239 Yeah. 01:04:40.480 --> 01:04:40.880 All right. 01:04:41.039 --> 01:04:42.960 What is your dream concert lineup? 01:04:43.039 --> 01:04:45.039 I'm

thinking two openers and a headliner. 01:04:45.199 --> 01:04:47.679 Oh, like a like a like artists singing? 01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:48.400 All the time. 01:04:48.480 --> 01:04:50.880 I could be dead, alive, dream concert. 01:04:51.360 --> 01:04:55.920 See, I I feel like I'm getting old because I'm not a huge fan of concerts anymore because they get too loud. 01:04:56.239 --> 01:04:57.440 Um I know. 01:04:57.760 --> 01:04:58.639 You're 30? 01:04:58.800 --> 01:04:59.599 I'm 30 years old. 01:04:59.760 --> 01:05:00.559 Oh, boomer. 01:05:00.639 --> 01:05:01.199 Yeah, boomer. 01:05:01.519 --> 01:05:01.920 Sorry, hey. 01:05:02.239 --> 01:05:03.440 For all boomers, we love you. 01:05:04.559 --> 01:05:04.800 Yes. 01:05:04.960 --> 01:05:05.199 Yeah. 01:05:05.280 --> 01:05:10.880 Last time I went to Winter Jam, if you're familiar with that, I was just kind of like, wow, this is really loud. 01:05:12.480 --> 01:05:13.920 Had to turn your hearing aids down. 01:05:14.159 --> 01:05:14.400 Yeah. 01:05:14.480 --> 01:05:15.840 Yeah, something like that. 01:05:16.480 --> 01:05:19.360 If I had to, if I had to say So a quiet concert. 01:05:19.440 --> 01:05:21.119 What's your dream quiet concert? 01:05:21.920 --> 01:05:23.280 I'm just gonna say concert. 01:05:23.440 --> 01:05:26.719 Well, there's this is across the board because I like lots of different types of music. 01:05:27.199 --> 01:05:30.480 I'll say Han Zimmer Orchestra. 01:05:30.800 --> 01:05:31.840 He's my favorite composer. 01:05:32.079 --> 01:05:32.239 Yeah. 01:05:32.639 --> 01:05:33.920 Interstellar soundtrack. 01:05:34.079 --> 01:05:34.320 Yeah. 01:05:34.400 --> 01:05:38.159 All of those Christopher Nolan movies where those soundtracks, they're all they're all really good. 01:05:38.239 --> 01:05:38.400 Yeah. 01:05:38.559 --> 01:05:40.480 Uh Hans Zimmer is a gifted composer. 01:05:40.559 --> 01:05:40.880 Yeah. 01:05:41.039 --> 01:05:42.559 I like listening to his stuff. 01:05:42.719 --> 01:05:49.199 And then I really like oh the Tommy Prophets. 01:05:49.440 --> 01:05:51.840 He has this thing called the Resurrection of the King. 01:05:52.480 --> 01:05:54.239 And it's actually brand new. 01:05:54.320 --> 01:06:01.679 He also had The Birth of the King, but he has several artists come and he composes all these old songs and makes Renditions of them, and they're beautiful. 01:06:01.760 --> 01:06:02.480 They're works of art. 01:06:02.639 --> 01:06:02.960 Yeah. 01:06:03.199 --> 01:06:08.159 And then last one I'll choose is The Rap Artist KB. 01:06:08.400 --> 01:06:08.960 There we go. 01:06:09.039 --> 01:06:09.360 Yeah. 01:06:09.599 --> 01:06:10.239 There we go. 01:06:10.480 --> 01:06:12.320 Alright, favorite book. 01:06:12.719 --> 01:06:14.239 Can't be the Bible. 01:06:14.960 --> 01:06:15.440 Wow. 01:06:15.679 --> 01:06:16.960 Favorite book. 01:06:18.239 --> 01:06:24.239 That's so hard for me to choose, mainly because I overpopulate my mind with books. 01:06:24.800 --> 01:06:32.719 But I will say, based off what

I just said previously, I think as of now, my favorite. 01:06:33.119 --> 01:06:34.239 Oh, I don't want to say that. 01:06:34.480 --> 01:06:34.960 Never mind. 01:06:35.280 --> 01:06:35.679 I don't know. 01:06:36.159 --> 01:06:37.039 Rapid fire, rapid fire. 01:06:37.199 --> 01:06:39.760 I know, but this is like, I'm just gonna say. 01:06:40.480 --> 01:06:41.440 Gun to your head. 01:06:41.599 --> 01:06:43.119 Three, two, one. 01:06:43.599 --> 01:06:47.039 JC Ryle, he has this thing on being a man. 01:06:47.119 --> 01:06:48.159 I can't remember what it's called. 01:06:48.320 --> 01:06:49.039 Thoughts for young men? 01:06:49.199 --> 01:06:49.360 Yeah. 01:06:49.519 --> 01:06:50.159 I'll say that one. 01:06:50.400 --> 01:06:50.559 Great. 01:06:50.639 --> 01:06:50.800 Alright. 01:06:50.880 --> 01:06:51.840 This is probably the most serious question. 01:06:52.079 --> 01:06:53.440 That one is fire, by the way. 01:06:53.599 --> 01:06:54.000 Yeah. 01:06:54.239 --> 01:06:54.639 Alright. 01:06:54.800 --> 01:06:55.840 Just be prepared. 01:06:56.000 --> 01:06:57.440 This is a very serious question. 01:06:57.679 --> 01:06:58.800 I don't think it is. 01:07:00.079 --> 01:07:08.079 Would you rather fight a horse-sized duck or 100 duck-sized horses? 01:07:08.400 --> 01:07:10.000 100 duck-sized horses. 01:07:10.239 --> 01:07:11.679 That is the correct answer. 01:07:12.159 --> 01:07:15.760 Dude, a horse-sized duck is gonna murder you scary fast. 01:07:16.000 --> 01:07:16.960 He's gonna, yeah. 01:07:17.039 --> 01:07:18.480 He's gonna peck me to death. 01:07:18.639 --> 01:07:19.039 All right. 01:07:20.559 --> 01:07:23.840 I was gonna ask, what is your most recent I'm getting old moment? 01:07:23.920 --> 01:07:26.239 But I think we just had that with your thoughts on concerts. 01:07:26.559 --> 01:07:27.280 So we'll move on. 01:07:27.440 --> 01:07:29.039 Those are my thoughts on concerts. 01:07:29.360 --> 01:07:32.000 This has been your thoughts with on concerts with Zach. 01:07:32.159 --> 01:07:32.639 Yes. 01:07:32.880 --> 01:07:35.519 What is your favorite family tradition? 01:07:37.039 --> 01:07:38.800 Favorite family tradition. 01:07:39.039 --> 01:07:40.159 I don't think I have one. 01:07:40.320 --> 01:07:40.480 Okay. 01:07:41.679 --> 01:07:45.519 If you were a piece of furniture, what would you be? 01:07:51.039 --> 01:07:53.519 You like how I asked that with a straight face? 01:07:55.679 --> 01:08:00.159 I thought it was gonna be a serious question, and then that was the furthest thing from a serious question. 01:08:00.639 --> 01:08:03.920 I do let's go the next one's serious conference table, I guess. 01:08:04.000 --> 01:08:04.239 I don't know. 01:08:04.639 --> 01:08:05.679 Conference table. 01:08:06.880 --> 01:08:08.719 I identify as a conference table. 01:08:08.880 --> 01:08:09.760 Wait, I take that back. 01:08:09.840 --> 01:08:11.360 I want to be a lounge chair. 01:08:11.599 --> 01:08:12.320 Okay, a lounge chair. 01:08:12.719 --> 01:08:13.920 You want to be sat on. 01:08:15.440 --> 01:08:16.079 Yeah. 01:08:16.479 --> 01:08:17.199 Definitely not. 01:08:17.279 --> 01:08:18.319 Maybe cut that part out. 01:08:18.960 --> 01:08:20.800 Getting back to a little bit more serious. 01:08:21.119 --> 01:08:24.640 What hymn do you want sung at your funeral? 01:08:26.079 --> 01:08:26.880 A lot more serious. 01:08:27.039 --> 01:08:28.640 Yeah, I've thought about this before. 01:08:31.119 --> 01:08:35.039 I want people weeping at my funeral, so I want the sands of time are sinking. 01:08:35.359 --> 01:08:38.000 I want there to be a little pond on the floor. 01:08:39.680 --> 01:08:44.800 As far as classic hymns are concerned, one of my all-time favorites is Be Thou My Vision. 01:08:47.439 --> 01:08:54.159 I there was one that I had picked out, and I don't I haven't thought about this question for a long time. 01:08:54.960 --> 01:08:56.640 There's a lot of good ones. 01:08:56.880 --> 01:09:01.760 Like in that hymns of grace that we sing, the hymnals we use, there's a lot of different ones that could be used. 01:09:02.000 --> 01:09:06.399 So I'll probably go with like that or like in Christ alone. 01:09:06.720 --> 01:09:07.119 Probably. 01:09:07.520 --> 01:09:07.840 Perfect. 01:09:08.000 --> 01:09:08.319 Yeah. 01:09:08.560 --> 01:09:13.680 Then last one, what are you most encouraged by at Emmaus right now? 01:09:14.960 --> 01:09:17.920 I'm most encouraged by members loving each other. 01:09:18.720 --> 01:09:27.119 I think people who come from different churches who maybe don't, the community, it's harder to have community. 01:09:27.279 --> 01:09:30.239 They'll come to Emmaus and that's the first thing that they say. 01:09:30.319 --> 01:09:30.640 Yeah. 01:09:30.880 --> 01:09:36.079 And it's the thing about Emmaus is like we're not trying to be artificial about it. 01:09:36.159 --> 01:09:38.319 We're not trying to like, oh, this is what we're about. 01:09:38.399 --> 01:09:49.600 So we're just gonna hyper focus on this, and then we lack in theology or teaching or preaching or or in our small groups or in our the stuff that like we do with like men's discipleship groups or this or that or evangelism. 01:09:49.680 --> 01:10:04.159 It's like, no, like community and genuinely desiring to see and meet people where they're at and just understand them, love them, and reciprocate that back and forth. 01:10:04.319 --> 01:10:23.520 Like that's the thing that I love about Emmaus is the community and how much it just feels like people just love one another in Christ and desire not only love, but desire to see like continued growth and aspiration to like holy things. 01:10:23.600 --> 01:10:23.840 Yeah. 01:10:24.079 --> 01:10:26.159 So that's what I love most about Emmaus.