Bản chép lời đầy đủ của Kriegsmaterialgesetz: Waffenexporte für die Verteidigung – oder den Profit?

they in einem bewaffneten Conflict stay. 00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:55.599 Zudem dürften sie Kriegsmaterial under given an Drittstaaten weitergeben. 00:03:55.759 --> 00:03:58.319 And the Bundesrat soll ein Vetorecht erhalten. 00:03:58.479 --> 00:04:03.280 For the fall that in Bern sicherheits- oder neutralitätspolitische Bedenken bestehen. 00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:11.759 The kriegsgeplagte Ukraine would damage weiterhin keine Schweizer Waffen erhalten können, stand über Drittstaaten. 00:04:13.039 --> 00:04:14.400 Fassen wir kurz zusammen. 00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:16.319 It's also three. 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:35.120 Andrea Agmir, we clear a primary whom Panzer in the neutral in the Ausland? 00:04:36.800 --> 00:05:00.800 I would say that the world is momentarily full of King is and that the Schwice, and that the Schwice better can when they other lessons leave, even if the Schwed or French has. 00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:08.879 So as a primary panini builder handled, when he gave, then they are. 00:06:14.399 --> 00:06:18.720 For me had so many answered. 00:06:18.959 --> 00:06:31.439 What our health and belonged to me, for this February 2022, whether we have 200 million in the duro investment and move. 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:44.959 And that will be a clausel for the Bundesrat. 00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:52.399 You are again, Herr Andre, that the Bundesrat these exports on geopolitical can. 00:07:26.079 --> 00:07:27.279 This is not the role of Schweders. 00:07:27.439 --> 00:07:32.800 There are less people that are so positioned. 00:07:33.439 --> 00:07:37.199 The later with women, this is not the role of the Schwitz. 00:07:37.519 --> 00:07:39.839 And this makes the world not safer when the Schwed. 00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:44.959 The Schwice can also do so much, which it did. 00:07:45.199 --> 00:07:47.839 And that is what I thought in this debate. 00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:51.920 We have already begun to speak we can Ukraine helped. 00:07:52.000 --> 00:07:53.120 This is no more. 00:07:53.279 --> 00:07:54.480 This is a lex Ukraine. 00:07:57.519 --> 00:08:00.240 He is all as a help for the Ukraine. 00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:03.199 And that's what we do. 00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:08.480 I think Ukraine understood. 00:08:08.800 --> 00:08:12.720 In the world we have a lesson, and it came in the National Rat. 00:08:13.279 --> 00:08:13.600 What is then? 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:14.399 What is Jesus? 00:08:14.720 --> 00:08:19.680 In the National Rate, no, no, no, no. 00:08:19.839 --> 00:08:22.000 It came and came and gave nothing. 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:30.879 And then the Lincoln the other, then had a Ukraine. 00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:32.879 This had in this moment. 00:08:34.240 --> 00:08:35.679 But it was not easy. 00:08:36.879 --> 00:08:41.039 The SP wanted a closet for the Ukraine, also exported. 00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:48.000 It was from the linker side blocked. 00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:49.759 And I think. 00:08:53.120 --> 00:08:55.440 We have in the Sweden the neutrality. 00:08:56.240 --> 00:09:06.879 And that gave us that we have not to God not, but to us in earnest to. 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:10.720 And I hope that this is. 00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:11.679 But it gets up. 00:09:12.559 --> 00:09:24.639 And when we have weapons to the Island, there are gender that only export controls and we have the veto. 00:09:26.320 --> 00:09:29.120 I will not have the weapons in full hands. 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:32.879 We will not know that the weapons in principle to inside. 00:09:33.679 --> 00:09:38.960 But we know all that dissuasion is the great word. 00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:40.960 And we work. 00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:47.519 We talk here from the vertebrality of the Sweden. 00:09:47.759 --> 00:09:51.200 That has nothing with the export orientation, the industry to do. 00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:52.720 This is not. 00:09:52.879 --> 00:09:59.200 We have Deutschland is a super export land and is army technically good. 00:09:59.679 --> 00:10:01.120 And it's the exact same thing. 00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:11.279 What without the Andrea Mirsch had said we won't the control. 00:10:12.720 --> 00:10:14.879 This does this control. 00:10:15.039 --> 00:10:16.240 We had a good control. 00:10:16.879 --> 00:10:19.919 This was also a correct that. 00:10:21.039 --> 00:10:22.399 So whom gave the control? 00:10:23.039 --> 00:10:23.600 The Bundesrat. 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:30.159 We got the control as the land, but we not see what this is. 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:45.200 And in the moment, while there was the export, the weapon could not see that Saudi Arabia, then in Yemen, or over the Arabic Emirates in Sudan landed. 00:10:45.759 --> 00:10:48.480 All this will be better, and there is not more. 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:52.720 We can not do what we do, but we can the controller gives. 00:10:52.879 --> 00:10:58.559 And now this is not the role of the Schwed, it is not in the humanitarian tradition of the Schwitzer. 00:10:58.879 --> 00:11:02.720 And at least is it not sinful when we have the dimension. 00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:25.200 You have said there gave other Partners and there gave a lie for Grundsatz for this. 00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:33.679 And then exported when a emphatic staff in a bewaffnet conflict is. 00:13:56.240 --> 00:13:57.759 We must have a lesser partner. 00:13:58.240 --> 00:13:59.440 That we are by this. 00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:16.639 When we are a tea system, then it's our eye, our way, so we can material. 00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:22.399 It needs this. 00:14:52.320 --> 00:15:01.120 The industry makes so much um, and with the heavy regime, this strong regime exported the industry more than yet. 00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:17.440 In the Fashion says that we can for freedom of this, and not the lender belief with the fairly. 00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:38.799 We heard a show from the neutral Österreich and the entferned Australien. 00:15:44.399 --> 00:15:47.759 In Österreich, that would in a debate nie given. 00:15:56.399 --> 00:16:01.759 But in Österreich is from a rein

wirtschaftly situation debated. 00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:13.120 Day is not moralische as well, sort of very, very important. 00:16:16.559 --> 00:16:19.759 And by this thing is witziger umgekehrt. 00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:28.000 When the Leute heard that I'm from the Schweizer, then the issue is Jockey, Rue and Berge. 00:16:28.399 --> 00:16:31.360 And now I show you in the Social Bereich. 00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:37.759 What is the rote had in the Schwiz started? 00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:41.519 Ganf is the home of the Ganfer Convention. 00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:44.159 The Schwiz is a neutral land. 00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:47.519 And a sicher haven't for the world. 00:16:55.679 --> 00:16:59.440 We have where we have a eighteen rüstungsindustrie. 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:04.640 I have said one that we have a versor is. 00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:38.000 What was in October 2022, with the Political Commission in Berlin, and then in January 2023 by the NATO in Brussels, where we said what with our Kriegsmaterial? 00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:39.440 That gets not. 00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:43.359 You are completely nothing. 00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:48.319 And I think in earnest, we can also partner. 00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:51.519 That's not. 00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:57.440 And we have the industry, the industry, can we not have any. 00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:11.839 And I say not to have a profit to make it, but we must international that in the Schwedz no material or producer. 00:18:16.480 --> 00:18:21.279 The Schwice is anstrengend between Kriegsmaterial exported. 00:18:21.519 --> 00:18:24.880 This is the political will, while the Schwice another role spelled. 00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:31.119 And my point is: we can just use the Kriegsmaterial spread, but we can talk about what the Schwiz does. 00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:43.039 We could in the help, in the winter health, in the Ukraine, or in the international cooperation, generally striker engagement. 00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:47.920 We could feel striker engagement by the engine. 00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:56.559 It gives us what we are for a partner. 00:18:56.960 --> 00:19:07.920 And Europe when we said we could engage in the Ukraine, financial, in other regions of the world, with those things in which we are good. 00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:11.119 But this does not, and that is the problem. 00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:24.240 We bring us programs that we have, not to the army to finance. 00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:26.079 And that should also that the world. 00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:33.200 But I think the eye is not what the Andre said. 00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:40.720 We do not feel what the international health international health belongs. 00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:44.559 I've been with him that we're here and there not a bit more. 00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:46.880 That is not so quite back from us. 00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:54.079 But we have by the 30 years long sparked. 00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:58.559 We are all the same is in all European landscape. 00:19:58.960 --> 00:20:01.440 And this we have massive. 00:20:02.960 --> 00:20:07.039 And it gets not tough in the world to put it. 00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:13.039 So for me is it very wonderful that we for all the time for young men. 00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:27.440 We have not the material. 00:20:27.759 --> 00:20:29.839 We have this massive hand. 00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:32.640 We have this during 30 years. 00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:37.839 And I must say, it is not easy. 00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:42.240 This has for me the world massive. 00:20:43.440 --> 00:20:44.319 What we international. 00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:51.759 We must the luftraum, we must fail. 00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:58.720 When a racket in distance, a drone, a fluid room. 00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:03.839 This is an outgave of the army. 00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:08.480 And the parliament believes credit and credit and credit to this to move. 00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:13.359 This is a totally other discussion as the Rusting Export. 00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:23.920 I think it's not a Schwedzer Industry will the Parliament so much more gold and the Bundesrates in the Schwed will. 00:21:24.319 --> 00:21:26.000 And this gate will also do that. 00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:35.440 It is not, and this is evidence, that we not exported. 00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:41.039 This is a Finland, show other lands. 00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:45.839 This is not, and this is a narrative, and this is here. 00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:53.440 This is not the big discussion. 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:05.599 Actually, we come from one firm, which is Rheinmetall, it is a dwelling firm in the Schweiz that this export makes. 00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:09.680 It is a marginal land. 00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:20.480 All these are the Schwed up. 00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:25.599 It is a technology, it is a know-how for the markets. 00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:34.799 But it is in each way to the land, the land of our land. 00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:46.960 When we have a early, when we have a easy in this, then I don't know where our neutrality is, where we can. 00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:55.279 I know not where we are in this, who we can understand. 00:22:56.160 --> 00:23:03.839 And I think it's worth it that we international to a less partner. 00:23:04.720 --> 00:23:09.680 While what you all said, what we should have, that we are. 00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:12.400 We have even designed so many. 00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:18.720 That I have not said. 00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:21.359 I have not said the army is not. 00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:23.680 That can so fest. 00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:31.920 And this is the parliamentary will, the will, so much more gold to give, and the bundles strategy the most of these gold in the Schwed. 00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:38.400 So I have this firma to see what the Bundesrat with a big. 00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:05.839 We must show that we can international with the veto and offline. 00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:24.640 We will not use the full hand, but we need to show that in that we are one,

not by the mask, which we have nothing to have, and that we otherwise understands with the Schutzschirm. 00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:35.759 She set it for the stricter of neutrality, as we all wish. 00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:40.480 And for the locker design Kriegsmaterialgesetzes, that can wie ein Widerspruch. 00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:44.000 We have gefragt, wie das zusammenpasst. 00:24:44.640 --> 00:24:46.240 Neutralität hat zu einem Übergehoben. 00:24:46.400 --> 00:24:52.559 Die Diskussion Neutralität, die flexible Anwendung des Bundesrat ist doch sehr heikel. 00:24:52.880 --> 00:25:01.039 Hingegen bei einer Umsetzung der Ausfuhrdiskussion in einzelnen Güter, da ist doch nie jeder tragweite für die Neutralität im Allgemeinen. 00:25:01.519 --> 00:25:07.359 Die Schweiz ist nicht der Branche, weder heute noch in Zukunft ein ganz grosser K-Materialhersteller. 00:25:07.839 --> 00:25:15.039 Das ist anderen Ländern vorenthalten, weil gerne mehr bei uns produzieren können, weil es für die Wirtschaft und für unsere Arbeitsplätze absolut wichtig ist. 00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:21.920 Und als K-Smaterial ist doch extrem wichtig, dass wir überhaupt etwas produzieren können und zwar für unsere eigenen Sicherheit. 00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:27.519 Michael Goethe sagt: Die Schweiz wird ohnehin ein grosses Waffenexportland. 00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:30.160 Also kann man vielleicht auch einfach pragmatisch sagen. 00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:38.079 We have mit unserer Haltung nach Ukraine Kriegsverärgert and a setzen. 00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:43.200 Also geht es um a symbolic that we have. 00:25:43.519 --> 00:25:51.200 Nein, it gets our eye and vertighet and stuff. 00:25:51.839 --> 00:26:03.200 And that is a Kriegsmatic, and that was by the East, who we have a new terminology find. 00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:10.079 While I have the idea that when this is by the both, when again is by the good. 00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:23.039 While I will that falsely, I really will that we are easy or six, and there we have a lot of people. 00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:34.000 We have a lot of sickness to strike. 00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:37.200 And we get on the ship. 00:26:41.119 --> 00:26:46.319 But it came that your lexindustry. 00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:50.079 And there were four work under the line. 00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:56.880 But I must say, or what you from the line. 00:26:57.039 --> 00:26:59.359 I wouldn't have not beared. 00:26:59.519 --> 00:27:01.440 I would from them not bear. 00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:07.440 And as the Audrey to begin said, I had a lex Ukraine. 00:27:08.319 --> 00:27:11.359 That was two, three years. 00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:16.480 And yeah, then what should you say? 00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:21.599 Let's go to the spot in our hand as the swim off the day, but a shape forward. 00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:32.640 And there was absolutely that we have our when we in the international. 00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:47.200 When we take this international industry anyway, and then we have a partner. 00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:22.720 Why not? 00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:28.960 While the USA had what we will, that is not the point. 00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:34.720 But the Bundesrat must have American leave. 00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:38.240 And that's it. 00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:39.599 That was the reality. 00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:51.440 And I say notes the Switzerland as they are by the problem, with the Lex Ukraine. 00:28:55.200 --> 00:29:00.640 Why did the health in the Ukraine or in other regions? 00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:04.799 Why did the understanding on Kriegsmaterial? 00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:05.839 That is not a nonsense. 00:29:06.079 --> 00:29:08.880 There are many other things that the Sweden can. 00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:16.880 And we have a verfass. 00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:19.759 We must for the freedom engine. 00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:24.400 And I say not what the world can we give us. 00:29:31.119 --> 00:29:32.720 Doch, it is leiser naive. 00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:38.079 I had a world where all the other people and each kid will. 00:29:38.319 --> 00:29:41.519 But by the clear kind of garden, it's loose, that many. 00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:44.640 That is not harmless. 00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:48.000 But we are not a world. 00:29:49.359 --> 00:30:17.599 And this is dissuasion, so without it, it gets not to be a material to live, but it gets to be, it gets a lot to be, and it gets our industry not as self-speaking, not to make gold to use, which it is, but we are safe. 00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:21.200 It is a hey, neutrality. 00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:27.519 I think it's unbelievable naive the feel to have material exporters, that we have a work. 00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:33.680 I mean, sorry, we can here, and I think we are under a discussion. 00:30:35.680 --> 00:30:41.519 It is a mosaic sign in a Kicks material. 00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:57.599 In direct conflict with the other role that the Sweden must, namely the word to where it should have the actors on the table to bring and engage for the escalation. 00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:08.000 This argument what the Sweden is when we have we have not on the planet so much for clicking material as now. 00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:10.079 It is the absolute Eldorado. 00:31:12.079 --> 00:31:16.400 When we in this had mean you that unsere Partnerstaaten beruhiged. 00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:35.200 But we discute not Kriegsmation. 00:31:35.440 --> 00:31:35.680 Why? 00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:46.160 And this is the Schweiz nothing to give which it is, but it must not be. 00:31:49.359 --> 00:31:50.480 Sorry, but it didn't. 00:31:50.799 --> 00:31:56.400 I have in Australia, our Kriegsmation gets nothing. 00:31:56.720 --> 00:32:02.079 This absolute star vessel have we always given. 00:32:02.319 --> 00:32:06.000 That had nothing with our neutrality to do it. 00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:07.119 We have completely. 00:32:12.319 --> 00:32:15.519 We hind us and naivety. 00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:41.359 Self not this material to exportain, but as I have to say, we have 30 years ago, political sound that we are any vertigone, and that our people can't. 00:32:41.440 --> 00:32:48.799 Uh, you have this, that the other, we have yet the hybrid king. 00:32:49.119 --> 00:33:01.440 I hope everyone will say that this supermarket in France there's a nerd that wanted, and that there not the Russian. 00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:07.519 We had this file in Leipzig, where the flux in the luft was. 00:33:08.079 --> 00:33:09.759 What are we not? 00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:13.039 The earliest that Putin says is. 00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:45.599 Um in this debate. 00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:54.079 Obviously, in the link the emotion a bit and more with information arbeiten. 00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:19.360 What factors are not on the tissue? 00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:20.159 I see. 00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:28.719 It is here on Krieg and Frieden, it is crowded light. 00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:40.559 And I say the Sweden in a role that is a role of other later, and the Schwed will not be the Kriegsmaterial exporter, but the Friedens Exporteur. 00:34:40.960 --> 00:34:49.360 And in the world, is this role unless you wish than yeah, but there are not more lessons that this is. 00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:48.159 No, I don't know nothing. 00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:50.800 And I think not this tall. 00:36:51.039 --> 00:36:54.079 And I think it's a very good idea. 00:36:54.480 --> 00:37:17.440 But in all and it's for me 200% clear that we have this material, these rigid vessels that we have, that we have a bit, so we have our faith to work and land and life. 00:37:17.840 --> 00:37:19.679 This is a great one. 00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:25.519 It was in the three quarters of 2026 80 million francs. 00:37:28.639 --> 00:37:35.360 I have a frame on you, an upgrade, and more craft. 00:37:57.280 --> 00:37:58.960 That are nirguns. 00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:11.280 The Bundesrat has a sicherheitspolitische strategy formuliert. 00:38:11.360 --> 00:38:14.719 They had a great spectrum of Massnahmen. 00:38:14.960 --> 00:38:19.519 A fierce often is military, it is verteid, the rest is not military, it is civilized. 00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:25.199 There is little to do. 00:38:25.519 --> 00:38:30.960 And in these bewils is we at the moment in years at the closest. 00:38:54.639 --> 00:38:59.440 Thank you that you in the studio, Gerard Andre and Andrea Gmir.