BẢN CHÉP ÂM THANH 🔗
WEBVTT
00:00:03.680 --> 00:00:07.200
I'm coming at it from the much more visual point of view.
00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:09.279
How does this sweep across the stage?
00:00:09.359 --> 00:00:11.359
How does it connect to the next scene?
00:00:11.519 --> 00:00:16.879
What is the image that the audience might see at the beginning that they're then seeing at the end in their movement?
00:00:17.039 --> 00:00:21.839
And so I go through and I make visual patterns throughout the script.
00:00:22.320 --> 00:00:24.320
Hi, welcome back to How Much Can I Make?
00:00:24.399 --> 00:00:25.440
I'm Ravuzeri.
00:00:25.920 --> 00:00:29.039
Now, what does it take to turn a movement into a living?
00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:38.079
My guest, Mendy Raposa, is a New York-based choreographer and director whose credit includes Broadway shows and many other theatre productions.
00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:42.240
And campaigns for the NFL and Samsung with Jaden Smith.
00:00:42.560 --> 00:00:50.719
We talked about what does it take to build a career as a dancer and as a choreographer and how much can you actually make.
00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:52.240
So let's turn to Matt.
00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:54.960
Thanks a lot for willing to do it.
00:00:55.119 --> 00:00:56.399
I think it's very interesting.
00:00:56.719 --> 00:01:01.200
Never had a dancer or choreographer on the show, so it's fantastic.
00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:02.719
I'm so happy to be here.
00:01:02.960 --> 00:01:03.679
Thank you.
00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:08.319
So let's start by telling us what is it that you do in the dance world?
00:01:08.640 --> 00:01:19.840
In the dance world, I originate new choreography for plays, musicals, either new plays and musicals or already existing plays and musicals.
00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:24.560
And I also spend a lot of time choreographically as an associate choreographer.
00:01:24.640 --> 00:01:33.359
And that is someone who takes something that is pre-existing that has been made up by another choreographer, and I maintain the integrity of their work in a show.
00:01:33.599 --> 00:01:36.319
I also read that you are a movement director.
00:01:36.560 --> 00:01:36.799
Yes.
00:01:37.040 --> 00:01:38.560
What is a movement director?
00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:43.599
So a movement director, it really depends on the nature of the project I'm working on.
00:01:43.760 --> 00:01:50.400
For example, at the moment I'm doing a Christmas Carol by the Old Vic Theatre, and it's the New York production of that.
00:01:50.640 --> 00:01:56.079
We are called a movement team because that's the nature of the movement that already exists in the show.
00:01:56.239 --> 00:02:01.359
It's not really classed as choreographic, it's more an extension of the actors.
00:02:01.840 --> 00:02:06.319
So it's general movement of the actors on the stage, but not dance.
00:02:06.560 --> 00:02:07.519
Not dance, yeah.
00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:09.439
Not five, six, seven, eight, go.
00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:14.560
So you direct that, go here to the right, go here to the left, and that kind of stuff?
00:02:14.800 --> 00:02:31.759
Yeah, so in this show I'm on the movement team, and the everything that the actors do in the world of movement to music is already made up, and what we do is we restage what is already been made up by the choreographer, by the movement director.
00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:34.960
I thought they left a lot of it to the dancers themselves.
00:02:35.199 --> 00:02:46.080
There are some choreographers who work like that, but my experience is that's more towards company dancers, and they've worked with a dancer for 20 years and they have that kind of a dialogue with them.
00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:46.639
Okay.
00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:47.120
Yeah.
00:02:47.439 --> 00:02:49.199
So let's back up for a second.
00:02:49.360 --> 00:02:51.520
How were you introduced to dance?
00:02:51.759 --> 00:03:09.280
I actually don't know what my very first experience of dance was, but what always comes to mind for me is so I grew up in England, and every summer we would drive to Spain for our two-week camping vacation, and on that trip I had a Walkman and I would listen to songs.
00:03:09.439 --> 00:03:15.280
And I know that as I was listening to the songs, I was always seeing dances in my head.
00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:15.919
Wow.
00:03:16.159 --> 00:03:19.680
And I just thought that was normal because it was normal for me.
00:03:20.479 --> 00:03:25.759
But in hindsight, I'm like, I think that was my first experiences of choreographing.
00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:29.360
But you were a dancer before you became a choreographer.
00:03:29.599 --> 00:03:29.840
Yes.
00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:31.439
Tech it it depends.
00:03:31.599 --> 00:03:36.319
I was six years old embossing children around in the playground making up dances.
00:03:36.639 --> 00:03:37.039
Really?
00:03:37.199 --> 00:03:37.520
Yes.
00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:49.039
But after that, when I was working professionally, I was initially performing and then I moved into choreography, but I'd always known in the back of my mind that performing was something I just had to get out of my system.
00:03:49.199 --> 00:03:53.360
But choreography and storytelling was where I wanted to spend my days.
00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:54.240
Wow.
00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:57.360
So you moved from England to New York.
00:03:57.520 --> 00:03:59.840
Did you come for a specific job?
00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:02.240
How did you break into the business in New York?
00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:09.280
Yeah, so I had been working in London and England and had some amazing opportunities there.
00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:19.839
But as a performer, the work that I was finding and that I was getting funneled into was very much music videos and fashion shows.
00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:25.600
And I'd always wanted to do theatre, so I thought I'm going to train in New York for three months.
00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:26.800
Train in theatre?
00:04:27.199 --> 00:04:28.240
Musical theatre, yeah.
00:04:28.399 -->
Load full transcript
00:04:30.959
Come to the Mecca of musical theatre.
00:04:31.199 --> 00:04:37.600
The home, the birthplace of musical theatre, and get really on my game and then go back to London.
00:04:37.839 --> 00:04:41.680
But wait a minute, do you knew you were gonna get a job in musical theatre here?
00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:46.000
No, I came, there's a studio called Broadway Dance Centre.
00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:52.160
If you've ever seen the movie Centre Stage, you've seen a little slice of Broadway Dance Centre, but it's I wouldn't remember.
00:04:52.480 --> 00:04:55.199
It's one of the top studios in the country.
00:04:55.360 --> 00:04:55.680
Oh.
00:04:55.839 --> 00:05:00.480
And you can come and you can do a summer program there, which is what I signed up to do.
00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:01.439
Oh, okay.
00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:09.360
So I spent three months training there, and I'm very fortunate in that I have dual citizenship with US and UK.
00:05:09.519 --> 00:05:13.920
So I thought, oh maybe I'll just audition for a regional production of it was White Christmas.
00:05:14.079 --> 00:05:23.360
So I auditioned, didn't think anything of it, flew back to England, and I was going to be dancing in Maleficent, the Disney film, as a dancer on that.
00:05:23.519 --> 00:05:31.120
But while I was in England, I got a call from the US Theatre Company of White Christmas, and they said, Can you come back for a final audition?
00:05:31.279 --> 00:05:38.800
So I was like, oh god, do I stay in England and do this movie, or do I just go with the wind and see what happens?
00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:53.439
And I knew I booked a one-way ticket and I knew I had to be okay with the idea that I could fly back to the US, give up dancing in this movie, and still be okay if I didn't get the job.
00:05:53.600 --> 00:05:55.920
So I flew back, I didn't get the job.
00:05:56.160 --> 00:05:56.480
Oh no.
00:05:56.879 --> 00:05:57.920
I was okay.
00:05:58.399 --> 00:06:01.360
Because I felt like otherwise I always would have wondered.
00:06:01.519 --> 00:06:08.079
And then I eventually did start booking work as a performer, but that very that first one did not go to plan.
00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:10.639
What a story, my god.
00:06:10.879 --> 00:06:11.199
Yeah.
00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:16.240
Okay, so what was the trajectory of your career here in America like?
00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:21.199
I was really lucky in that I got an opportunity.
00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:27.519
There's an organization called the SDC Foundation, and that's the Stage Directors and Choreographers Foundations.
00:06:27.839 --> 00:06:36.160
And what they do is they offer observership opportunities to early career director choreographers, or directors or choreographers.
00:06:36.319 --> 00:06:42.879
But I was lucky enough to work under the mentorship of Casey Nicklaw on one of these observerships.
00:06:42.959 --> 00:06:48.639
So what that means is he was staging the Broadway production of Tuck Everlasting.
00:06:48.879 --> 00:06:53.920
And as the observer, I was with him throughout the entire process.
00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:59.040
From day one of rehearsal until opening night, wherever he was, I was.
00:06:59.199 --> 00:07:04.079
So what is amazing about this opportunity is that you're in the room without an agenda.
00:07:04.240 --> 00:07:05.839
You don't have anything to get done.
00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:11.040
So what feels daunting at the beginning is that you're just watching and you're like, surely I should be helping.
00:07:11.279 --> 00:07:20.000
But actually, it gave me space to see how the best in the business were running a room, how the best in the business were making a musical.
00:07:20.240 --> 00:07:30.639
And as the years went on, every time I found myself in a rehearsal room or in a tech or in a put-in rehearsal, I was like, oh, I learned how to do that observing Casey Nicolaw.
00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:32.800
So how long were you just an observer?
00:07:33.040 --> 00:07:35.199
I believe it was about three months.
00:07:35.439 --> 00:07:37.040
And they didn't pay you for that, right?
00:07:37.199 --> 00:07:39.360
They do pay you because it's a foundation.
00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:41.920
So my particular one was the Traub Fellowship.
00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:45.600
So a lady called Victoria Traub who provides that fellowship.
00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:47.920
How much do they pay something like that?
00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:48.959
This is what's great.
00:07:49.120 --> 00:07:53.279
So when I did it, I earned, I think it was$2,000.
00:07:53.839 --> 00:07:54.480
For the three months.
00:07:54.720 --> 00:07:55.439
For the three months.
00:07:55.600 --> 00:07:56.399
That's not bad.
00:07:56.639 --> 00:07:57.199
Not bad.
00:07:57.360 --> 00:08:01.680
But now I actually think that they offer something closer to$6,000.
00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:02.480
Wow.
00:08:02.720 --> 00:08:08.800
Because there's really there has to be an investment in giving early career people these opportunities.
00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:11.519
Otherwise, the talent is not getting nurtured.
00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:17.120
And it's really hard when you're in a room as a director, you're not with other directors.
00:08:17.279 --> 00:08:18.879
So how else could you learn?
00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:19.600
Wow.
00:08:19.759 --> 00:08:23.360
So what was the first paying gig that you had?
00:08:23.680 --> 00:08:29.040
My first paid job as a performer.
00:08:29.920 --> 00:08:34.320
It was a midsummer night's dream when I was eight years old.
00:08:34.559 --> 00:08:36.080
Oh, and they paid you?
00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:36.720
They did.
00:08:36.879 --> 00:08:47.279
There was a fantastic professional company called Shakespeare for Kids, and they toured the country, and they needed some children to be fairies in a Midsummer Night's Dream.
00:08:49.120 --> 00:08:50.960
Do you remember what they paid you then?
00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:52.879
I actually can tell you.
00:08:53.039 --> 00:08:56.320
It was£10 per show.
00:08:58.159 --> 00:09:00.960
And I was so proud.
00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:03.360
I was so proud of that paycheck.
00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:06.080
I always wanted to, I wanted to work like a grown-up.
00:09:06.399 --> 00:09:08.799
And this felt like that opportunity.
00:09:10.320 --> 00:09:15.200
But as a once I was moving over to the other side of the table, I wanted to.
00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:16.639
You mean as a choreographer?
00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:17.120
Yes.
00:09:17.440 --> 00:09:23.679
I was an associate on the tour of Emojilan the musical, which ironically never ended up going on tour.
00:09:23.919 --> 00:09:36.799
It was a post-COVID, very wild experience as so many different theatre productions experienced after COVID, but technically that was my first one on the other side of the table.
00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:39.120
A tour that never happened.
00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:47.759
I want to stay on the performance side for a second because I want to know, and also maybe as a choreographer, how much do you have to work out every week?
00:09:47.919 --> 00:09:49.039
How do you keep in shape?
00:09:49.200 --> 00:09:51.279
That's a very physically demanding job.
00:09:51.519 --> 00:09:56.000
There's a really wise saying that you have to be stronger than the show that you're in.
00:09:56.320 --> 00:10:01.440
So when I'm performing, I'm training six days a week.
00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:06.799
That might be pilates, that might be ballet class, that might be strength training in the gym.
00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:08.320
How many hours each day?
00:10:08.559 --> 00:10:12.559
Anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour and 15.
00:10:12.720 --> 00:10:18.799
If you're on some sort of physio journey at the moment and you've got injuries that you're working on, that can really add the time on as well.
00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:34.480
But it's actually, I find as a choreographer, it's just as important to be keeping on my fitness because when you're choreographing, you might sit down for an hour and a half in the room and then you're jumping up and trying to demonstrate something or trying to create something.
00:10:34.559 --> 00:10:40.559
And it's actually the going from sitting to standing and moving that has been more challenging for me choreographically.
00:10:40.720 --> 00:10:42.159
It's the unpredictability.
00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:42.799
Wow.
00:10:42.960 --> 00:10:47.039
You mentioned injuries, it's also very injury-prone profession.
00:10:47.279 --> 00:10:47.679
Yeah.
00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:49.200
So what happens?
00:10:49.360 --> 00:10:50.639
You twist your ankle.
00:10:50.720 --> 00:10:51.360
You can work.
00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:52.159
You can't, yeah.
00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:55.519
You could work as choreographer, but you can perform.
00:10:55.679 --> 00:11:00.720
And if you need to actually demonstrate to the dancers what to do, you cannot do it.
00:11:00.960 --> 00:11:01.519
What do you do?
00:11:01.759 --> 00:11:11.759
Choreographically, a skill that I've had to really work on is my vocabulary when I'm finding movement that I want to create in a room.
00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:20.799
And frankly, there could be times, even if I'm not injured, I have a handful of incredible dances that I try to bring onto any project I can.
00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:32.000
It's not always possible, but I have a handful of dances, and some of them do what I'm ideating in my head better than I can show it in my body.
00:11:32.240 --> 00:11:38.720
So it cut becomes about saying, okay, now can you contract your abdominals and scoop your back a bit more?
00:11:38.799 --> 00:11:40.639
Now can you get lower into your plie?
00:11:40.960 --> 00:11:46.639
Now can you just raise your eyeline by one centimeter and you find the shapes together?
00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:49.919
And I have had to get better at using my language.
00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:53.759
And of course, if I'm injured, that becomes even more critical.
00:11:54.080 --> 00:11:55.759
You said you love to do theatre.
00:11:55.919 --> 00:11:56.720
Who hires you?
00:11:56.879 --> 00:11:57.600
The producers?
00:11:57.759 --> 00:11:58.559
It depends.
00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:05.440
The order of sort of hiring would be producer to director, and then the director is the person who reaches out to the choreographer.
00:12:05.679 --> 00:12:09.440
Okay, so why I'm asking because they come to you with a concept, right?
00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:12.000
They don't really know anything about the dance.
00:12:12.159 --> 00:12:12.399
Yeah.
00:12:12.639 --> 00:12:15.120
Then you go home and so take me from there.
00:12:15.200 --> 00:12:16.240
How long does it take you?
00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:17.600
You draw it on paper?
00:12:17.759 --> 00:12:19.679
Do you draw just dance movement?
00:12:19.919 --> 00:12:20.639
How does it work?
00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:21.360
What do you do?
00:12:21.519 --> 00:12:22.960
You know, obviously read the story.
00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:25.360
Yes, read the script.
00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:32.639
I find myself to be very dramaturgically driven when I'm creating movement.
00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:36.000
I'm thinking of one specific play that I'm working on at the moment.
00:12:36.159 --> 00:12:50.240
So the director approaches me with the script, I read through the script, and then we would have a conversation about both the director's larger concept for the piece and what my immediate feelings are about movement.
00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:57.039
And what I like to do is go through a script and just write down any visual ideas that come to me.
00:12:57.279 --> 00:13:09.279
Because a lot of the time, my experience of directors or the directors I tend to work with, they live in this really beautiful, psychologically driven place that's about what does the character want?
00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:10.559
Why are they doing this?
00:13:10.720 --> 00:13:11.360
Who are they?
00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:15.759
And it and the cat the relationship between the characters is what is driving them.
00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:19.279
I'm coming at it from the much more visual point of view.
00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:21.279
How does this sweep across the stage?
00:13:21.440 --> 00:13:23.360
How does it connect to the next scene?
00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:28.879
What is the image that the audience might see at the beginning that they're then seeing at the end in their movement?
00:13:29.039 --> 00:13:33.600
And so I go through and I make visual patterns throughout the script.
00:13:33.759 --> 00:13:40.399
From there, it really has to be about what is motivating a character that helps me go into the more specific.
00:13:41.039 --> 00:13:43.919
So usually how long does it take you to design a dance?
00:13:44.159 --> 00:13:45.600
Okay, so as long as they give me.
00:13:45.759 --> 00:13:50.960
So for example, I worked with this incredible company this year called Woman in Motion.
00:13:51.120 --> 00:14:00.320
They're a dance company, and they approached me very early that I had months before I was in a room with any dancers.
00:14:00.559 --> 00:14:04.799
And I took months to think about what story do I want to tell?
00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:06.879
What is the friction in this?
00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:09.840
What is the breath in this?
00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:14.159
What are the moments, what do I want the audience to leave asking or feeling?
00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:20.320
And I went through so many iterations of what it might be before I was even in the room with the dancers.
00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:23.440
Then once I was in the room with the dancers, it was actually quite limited.
00:14:23.519 --> 00:14:26.399
I think I had about eight to ten hours.
00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:45.200
But on the contrary, there could also be a time when, and I've had this happen, you're in a tech rehearsal, there's a moment that is not working on stage, and the director says, I think we need something there, and you walk up to actors and you don't know what you're gonna do, and the dancers are looking at you and you're looking at them, and you don't know what's gonna happen.
00:14:45.279 --> 00:14:52.639
Then you say, I have an idea, and then you just do something and you make it, and that's how long it took.
00:14:54.000 --> 00:15:00.799
So being a dancer versus a choreographer versus a movement director, what pays the best?
00:15:01.039 --> 00:15:05.120
For my experience, choreographing pays better than performing.
00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:09.919
What a beginner in an established one, and what uh what is the top?
00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:21.840
Yeah, so for beginning salary for a choreographer, and what my beginning salary was is zero because you gotta start making your own work somewhere.
00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:23.840
You gotta have something to show.
00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:24.960
So zero.
00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:35.679
Day rates-wise, in developing work, you could be looking at anything from 200 to$600 associate work on Broadway.
00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:44.000
Around starting salary could be around$2,000 a week, but then moving up to anything to$3,000,$3,000.
00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:49.919
Project-wise, it's different because regionally it tends to be more project-based.
00:15:50.080 --> 00:16:07.360
If you're choreographing a regional musical, it really depends on the size of the house, but anywhere from$4,000 to$11,000 in my experience, but it all varies and it can also be dependent on if it is a union contract or not a union contract.
00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:08.799
Are you part of a union?
00:16:08.960 --> 00:16:09.519
I am, yes.
00:16:09.759 --> 00:16:12.399
You are not allowed to take jobs that are not union, right?
00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:13.519
That's correct, yeah.
00:16:13.759 --> 00:16:18.799
So that really dumps your situation here because a lot of jobs I bet you are not union.
00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:21.919
I actually haven't stumbled across that yet.
00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:22.559
Good.
00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:28.080
The union seems to be really good at finding a way to have a contract for most things.
00:16:28.240 --> 00:16:32.240
The place that they don't have contracts is in assistant work.
00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:36.399
So you have your choreographer at the top, then you have an associate.
00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:43.600
Those are both SDC union jobs, then assistants, they really haven't found a way to get them covered on the union yet.
00:16:43.919 --> 00:16:50.559
I read that you worked on some commercial campaign for NFL and for Samsung.
00:16:50.960 --> 00:16:54.480
How is it first of all, it must be completely different kind of work, right?
00:16:54.720 --> 00:16:55.279
Very different.
00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:56.399
Different kind of dance.
00:16:56.480 --> 00:17:02.159
So you have to be versed in hip-hop dance and modern dance and ballet and all of this, right?
00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:02.799
Yes.
00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:04.079
What did you study?
00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:06.240
What kind of dance did you study?
00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:19.279
I went to a college just outside of London called Performers College, and they were mostly actually known for training commercial dancers and musical theatre performers.
00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:19.599
Okay.
00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:31.759
So within that three-year training program, I had commercial hip-hop, I had tap, I had a little bit of contemporary, I had modern dance, I had ballet, and I had musical theatre.
00:17:31.839 --> 00:17:35.680
So they really did verse you in all styles.
00:17:35.920 --> 00:17:39.599
Which we used to talk about as being a little bit of a blessing and a curse.
00:17:39.759 --> 00:17:43.359
Is it best to be a jack of all trades, or is it best to really excel at one thing?
00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:45.279
But so what is the difference?
00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:49.200
First of all, I bet you that commercial pays a lot more than theatre, right?
00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:50.000
It does.
00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:51.759
Yeah, it's funny that, isn't it?
00:17:52.480 -->
00:17:53.119
TV.
00:17:53.839 --> 00:17:54.319
Brands.
00:17:55.039 --> 00:17:56.880
How did you get gigs like that?
00:17:57.119 --> 00:18:01.039
I was very lucky, lucky and hardworking, right?
00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:03.359
It's when those two things meet.
00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:15.200
I worked on the Broadway production of Merrily, we roll along, the production company that filmed the movie, one of the producers a few months later got in touch and said, Hey, we're doing this Samsung commercial.
00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:17.599
Can you come and be movement director?
00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:18.799
I said yes.
00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:24.400
And the pay was like three times the amount then of theatre?
00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:36.880
Yeah, so I've done a f quite a few commercials now, and from my experience, the starting rate could be around 900 a day, anything up to 2500 a day.
00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:38.160
Wow, that's great.
00:18:38.319 --> 00:18:38.799
Yeah.
00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:41.519
Do they give you a concept of what they want?
00:18:41.680 --> 00:18:43.440
Well, what's the set of the dance?
00:18:43.599 --> 00:18:47.359
What do they give you for you to go home and start thinking about the dance?
00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:51.519
Yeah, you get a really incredible look book.
00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:53.039
I think that's the word.
00:18:53.680 --> 00:19:04.480
It breaks down image by image exactly what every second of the commercial is gonna be and exactly how they want the movement to feel and what they want it to look like.
00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:11.839
What you don't know is how prepared the star is gonna come in, so you really have to prepare for all eventualities.
00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:15.920
And I've been very lucky with all the stars that I've worked with, they've just been amazing.
00:19:16.240 --> 00:19:17.200
Like who, for example?
00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:21.200
The Samsung commercial was Jaden Smith, and he was just fantastic.
00:19:21.359 --> 00:19:22.799
And then in theatre, a few others.
00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:23.839
Yeah, big names.
00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:24.400
Yeah.
00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:25.519
Theatre names, yeah.
00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:29.680
Hardworking people, very hardworking people, the theatre people.
00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:30.319
Yes.
00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:30.960
I know.
00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:32.799
And what was the NFL like?
00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:33.839
That was very fun.
00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:45.680
That was the opposite of the Samsung because they had taken real fans of many different football teams, and they were the people that were featured in the commercials.
00:19:45.759 --> 00:19:55.039
So instead of working with one star, I was working with probably over a hundred people in a short space of time and getting them to do movements that they were comfortable with.
00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:59.200
They might never have been in front of a camera before, and just guiding them.
00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:01.519
I did a lot of actually theatre warm-ups with them.
00:20:01.759 --> 00:20:05.119
But that wasn't just the movement director, they didn't have to dance, right?
00:20:05.440 --> 00:20:07.200
They did have to groove.
00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:07.920
Okay.
00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:11.759
They had to groove, they had specific movements they had to do.
00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:14.720
It was showing off very specific pieces of clothing.
00:20:14.799 --> 00:20:16.559
So they had to dance with the clothing.
00:20:16.880 --> 00:20:17.680
Interesting.
00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:20.720
At the end of the day, do you own the dance?
00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:23.839
Can somebody copy that dance in another performance?
00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:28.319
Or who owns the dance and who owns the Who owns the rights?
00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:30.000
The rights to it, yeah.
00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:34.160
It's really project by project.
00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:40.960
If if I'm working for a producer, generally they're gonna give me a contract.
00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:47.599
If it's not my own piece that I'm originating, they're gonna give me a contract that says they own all the rights, and I'm signing that away.
00:20:47.920 --> 00:21:03.359
What I do now put into all of my contracts that are of that nature is an AI clause, which says you can have the work, but you cannot feed it into any AI engines to generate more work or more ideas.
00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:04.400
Those are my ideas.
00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:06.720
That brings me to the question that I have.
00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:09.680
Do you use AI in designing the dance?
00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:12.079
No, I don't.
00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:29.839
No, I just don't believe that anything that AI tells me is going to be better at my work than me that has been living and breathing and experiencing life for as many years as I have.
00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:36.720
But I'm sure there are some choreographers that are using it.
00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:38.000
I'm sure, and you know what?
00:21:38.079 --> 00:21:41.759
Some of them are probably doing it really well, but it's just not for me.
00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:43.759
I still write with pen and paper.
00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:49.119
So, what is the biggest challenge in your profession?
00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:51.359
The biggest challenge in my profession.
00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:59.039
I went into it because I love working with people and I love creating moments with human beings in a room.
00:21:59.200 --> 00:21:59.680
And what I know.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:12.319
Never understood was that actually a lot of what I do is work alone and spend so much time creating stuff by myself so that I can be prepared for the moment when I am in the room with them.
00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:20.640
But a lot of the time because of budgets, the amount of time that you have actually creating with the people in the room is half of what you want it to be.
00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:21.359
Really?
00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:21.920
Yeah.
00:22:22.160 -->
00:22:26.319
Another thing from the more business side of thing I would say is the negotiations.
00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:28.079
To know how to price yourself.
00:22:28.319 --> 00:22:44.400
It's that I have an incredible agent that I work with, but it's really difficult because sometimes you walk into a building and you're worth what you feel you're worth, and then the next day you walk into a building as the same person, but you're barely making a livable salary.
00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:47.680
And that difference is really it's really difficult to manage.
00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:48.640
I can imagine.
00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:51.119
And what would you say is the biggest reward?
00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:55.839
Connecting audiences with parts of themselves that they didn't know were there.
00:22:56.079 --> 00:22:56.640
Oh really?
00:22:56.799 --> 00:23:00.079
And you can see it in a performance so that you actually connected?
00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:01.200
You can feel it.
00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:08.079
From the audience point of view, when they're watching something you've created, everybody together finds stillness.
00:23:08.319 --> 00:23:10.559
Or everybody together breathes out.
00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:17.039
Those moments connecting humans to themselves and to each other mean everything to me.
00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:18.240
And it happens.
00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:21.599
I saw the dance Lazarus by Elvin Ailey.
00:23:21.759 --> 00:23:27.519
The whole audience, me included, when they finished the dance, we jumped on our feet.
00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:32.720
I think that is the best dance I've ever seen in my life, and I always look to see when they perform it.
00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:33.759
I want to see it again.
00:23:33.920 --> 00:23:35.200
It was so amazing.
00:23:35.519 --> 00:23:38.400
And do you know what it was about that movie?
00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:54.160
The energy of the dance, the variety of things that they did with that energy, but the energy, the sink that everybody was in, the music, it was everything all-encompassing that really moved every single person in the theatre.
00:23:54.480 --> 00:24:02.079
Wow, yeah, and it's that collective energy that is so rare to experience now because society is fractured.
00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:05.920
So there's fewer and fewer spaces to fill that collective togetherness.
00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:07.279
You're absolutely right.
00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:08.559
I didn't even think about it.
00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:15.359
Let me ask you, what is your favorite dance of all times that you saw maybe wished you were in it?
00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:21.599
I can definitely say my favourite dance, and maybe I would wish I could be a part of it, but I would never be a good enough dancer.
00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:28.720
Is there was a piece called Message in a Bottle that I saw at New York City Centre and it featured music by Sting.
00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:38.160
And similarly to what you're saying, the energy of the dancers as they
were moving across the stage just had me spellbound.
00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:40.079
It was mesmerizing.
00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:43.920
And is there a specific dance group you wish you were part of?
00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:46.319
I want to start my own company eventually.
00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:47.920
Oh, tell me about it.
00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:49.839
I what would it take?
00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:50.960
Money.
00:24:53.599 --> 00:24:57.119
Collaborating with the right producers would be a better way to put that.
00:24:57.279 --> 00:24:58.240
Finding the right team.
00:24:58.559 --> 00:24:59.759
How do you get your jobs now?
00:24:59.920 --> 00:25:02.079
A lot of the time now it's referrals.
00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:02.960
Referrals.
00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:03.359
Yeah.
00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:10.160
So when you say you're gonna have your own company, that actually will be you will be an established choreography company.
00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:13.759
And choreography, I am having a hard time saying this word.
00:25:14.079 --> 00:25:14.720
Oh, it's okay.
00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:15.519
My husband.
00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:25.359
So many people in my family still can't say the word, which I love because you can never take yourself too seriously if your job title is one that people struggle to say.
00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:29.839
I even have a friend who told me how to pronounce it.
00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:31.119
Choreography.
00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:31.359
Okay.
00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:32.480
You're nailing it.
00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:33.920
It's perfect.
00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:36.720
Okay, so what will your company be?
00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:38.240
Will it be a dance company?
00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:39.599
Will it be a theatre?
00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:40.480
A dance theater?
00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:41.279
What will it be?
00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:42.640
Theatre company.
00:25:42.799 --> 00:25:47.680
But it would definitely be heavily focused on dance as a means of storytelling.
00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:53.200
I'm really interested in dance theatre narratives.
00:25:53.599 --> 00:26:04.400
Something that I find myself doing as a means of accessing a project is interviewing people, taking inspiration from those interviews, and building dance around what I've heard from them.
00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:08.160
And that's how two of my major projects have started.
00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:08.880
Wow.
00:26:09.119 --> 00:26:09.440
Yeah.
00:26:09.680 --> 00:26:11.119
And they're in development now?
00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:11.680
Yes.
00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:12.160
Yeah.
00:26:12.400 --> 00:26:13.119
That's fantastic.
00:26:13.279 --> 00:26:14.480
So what happens?
00:26:14.559 --> 00:26:16.559
You don't get paid during development.
00:26:16.799 --> 00:26:18.160
How do you make a living?
00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:23.200
Side jobs are crucial to surviving in the industry.
00:26:23.359 --> 00:26:40.480
For many years I was personal training on the side, and now I've been fortunate in that the last two years I haven't needed to do that, but I will say up until then I would finish a contract and the next day I would be back personal training.
00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:41.839
I would not take breaks.
00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:46.960
So you stayed within the realm of physical training, dancing, and all of that?
00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:52.720
You have to have a side job that you can enjoy, I think, if you want to last in this business.
00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:56.000
There is a limit age limit on this profession.
00:26:56.160 --> 00:26:58.400
Anything physical has an age limit.
00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:04.240
Did you start ever thinking about what you're gonna do when you will be old and won't be able to do it?
00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:10.559
I think I went through a big transformation when I had my daughter, who is now nearly five.
00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:16.720
And I think what that taught me is that it's about continuing to transform with the body that you have at the time.
00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:20.400
So as you lose something, you gain something.
00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:26.720
As you shift one way, you find another part of yourself that still can access storytelling.
00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:29.599
Because really, I just love telling stories.
00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:32.480
Through dance, through dancing movement.
00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:35.200
Thank you so much.
00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:36.400
Thank you.
00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:39.039
That's it for today.
00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:45.680
For more interviews with people with different careers in different jobs in many different industries.
00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:48.160
Go to how much can I make that info.
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:50.640
You'll find lots of information there.
00:27:50.799 --> 00:27:52.880
And I will see you next week.