BẢN CHÉP ÂM THANH 🔗
WEBVTT
00:00:00.050 --> 00:00:09.022
I'd say at a very high level you want to make this argument to switching to, to natural gas or renewable natural gas on economic terms.
00:00:09.022 --> 00:00:13.762
It has to work for the companies first before it can be on the environmental terms.
00:00:24.521 --> 00:00:35.591
For fleet leaders, the test sits beyond fuel price, asset utilisation, fuel access, and lifecycle accounting will decide what can scale.
00:00:36.612 --> 00:00:39.731
Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, wherever you are in the world.
00:00:40.091 --> 00:00:48.006
This is Climate Confident Stories and Strategies that Cut Emissions episode 296, and I'm your host, Tom Raftery.
00:00:49.692 --> 00:00:51.921
My guest today is Scott Brinner.
00:00:52.182 --> 00:00:57.731
Scott is an Executive Vice president of RNG Solutions at NoPetro Energy.
00:00:58.661 --> 00:01:10.361
A new 15 litre engine gives RNG a route into heavy duty trucking with high mileage return to base fleets emerging as the strongest early fit.
00:01:11.111 --> 00:01:11.951
Let's get into it.
00:01:12.951 --> 00:01:16.341
Scott welcome to the podcast Would you like to introduce yourself?
00:01:16.597 --> 00:01:17.108
Sure, sure.
00:01:17.108 --> 00:01:18.427
Thanks for having me on, Tom.
00:01:18.427 --> 00:01:19.837
I'm excited to be a part of it.
00:01:19.938 --> 00:01:20.638
My name's Scott Brinner.
00:01:20.927 --> 00:01:25.638
I'm the Executive Vice President of our RNG Solutions Division at NoPetro Energy.
00:01:25.638 --> 00:01:42.164
A company headquartered out of Miami, Florida that's focused on really all aspects of the RNG renewable natural gas industry from production through the fueling stations and even, starting to, engage in truck financing and purchasing and maintenance and service too.
00:01:42.921 --> 00:02:00.370
And before we go any further I just wanna clear up a distinction people sometimes confuse cause you talked about trucks and trucks can run on compressed natural gas which is sometimes called CNG which is basically methane stored under pressure as a transport fuel.
00:02:00.930 --> 00:02:02.710
And you talked about RNG.
00:02:03.031 --> 00:02:05.631
RNG is renewable natural gas.
00:02:05.631 --> 00:02:09.320
And that refers to where the methane comes from.
00:02:09.681 --> 00:02:20.933
So instead of drilling new fossil gas, RNG captures methane from places like landfills, dairy farms, wastewater plants et cetera et cetera before it escapes into the atmosphere.
00:02:21.324 --> 00:02:35.254
And so the interesting part is that both fossil natural gas methane, and RNG can use the same pipelines, the same fueling stations, the same engines, the same truck infrastructure.
00:02:35.903 --> 00:02:50.484
So in practise a fleet might be running on compressed natural gas CNG but the climate impact depends heavily on whether the methane came from fossil extraction or captured waste emissions.
00:02:50.843 --> 00:02:53.616
Is that a fair summary Scott of the situation?
00:02:53.917 --> 00:02:55.747
I don't think I could say it any better.
00:02:55.776 --> 00:02:57.217
I think you did a very good job.
00:02:57.217 --> 00:02:57.917
I think yes.
00:02:57.967 --> 00:03:02.637
The, the CNG, RNG term, they're, they're in ways interchangeable.
00:03:02.667 --> 00:03:08.111
And how did you personally end up focused on fuel infrastructure and RNG?
00:03:09.502 --> 00:03:16.930
Try to make this a short story, but I was an investment banker that covered transportation and waste industries.
00:03:17.270 --> 00:03:27.169
Doing so, I, I had some exposure to, you know, the, the idea of using alternative fuels, alternative technologies in the future.
00:03:27.370 --> 00:03:41.302
And back when the two co-founders of NoPetro Energy were starting the company, they came over and met with me and, told me what they were excited about doing and wondered how I might have been able to help them as they built this company up.
00:03:41.582 --> 00:03:42.548
We stayed in touch.
00:03:42.633 --> 00:04:03.620
We looked at working together for the next 15 years or so, and then the CEO and called me and, essentially by the end of a few months of it, talking about where the company was going and this big opportunity coming, around the new engines for 15 litre trucks, asked me if I'd join him and, and help build the company for the next 10, 20 years so.
00:04:03.930 --> 00:04:08.439
And tell me and the listeners what are these new engines you're talking about?
00:04:09.026 --> 00:04:09.536
Yeah.
00:04:09.586 --> 00:04:31.100
About the same time that the CEO called me to start talking about whether I might want to join him and help him, he knew and was seeing that Cummins was getting pretty close to announcing the arrival or the, the issuance, the available for sale of their brand new 15 litre X 15 in natural gas powered engine.
00:04:31.221 --> 00:04:37.310
And that is really, you know, all over the internet, you'll find it being called the game changer.
00:04:37.490 --> 00:04:50.630
Just a huge move, in the United States, you know, in the United, the major trucks that, you know, all these trucks you see on the interstate, most of'em, 90% or more, or 15 litre engines.
00:04:50.630 --> 00:05:00.290
And that has to do with the power and the torque, the capability, the, you know, every, what can the truck do and what is the truck expected to do on the highways in the United States.
00:05:00.680 --> 00:05:12.750
And there really has not been an engine of any other alternative fuel, enter any alternative technology available for sale proven to do the job until this engine came out.
00:05:13.081 --> 00:05:19.891
So for the first time, we have a natural gas powered engine in a truck that can do every job the diesel can do.
00:05:22.014 --> 00:05:29.824
And this engine doesn't care whether it's using fossil natural gas or renewable natural gas They're exactly the same thing right?
00:05:29.882 --> 00:05:33.273
Yeah, at the
Load full transcript
engine level, it is natural gas powered.
00:05:33.362 --> 00:05:36.062
And so the, the truck can take either.
00:05:36.273 --> 00:05:51.153
Now we have it an interesting dynamic in the United States where finally we have enough renewable natural gas produced in the country to fill all demand for CNG transportation.
00:05:51.362 --> 00:05:54.783
So that did not exist several years ago.
00:05:54.992 --> 00:06:01.653
They created a renewable fuel standard, put in the right incentives there to make the economics work.
00:06:01.653 --> 00:06:17.612
We're building renewable natural gas production plants at landfills, wastewater treatment, plants, dairy farms, that, that those guys who built those plants and put that capital to work had a reason to do that, could generate the revenues for a respectable return.
00:06:17.973 --> 00:06:21.182
So a lot of those plants have gone up in the last five years.
00:06:21.182 --> 00:06:22.562
There's a lot more coming.
00:06:22.773 --> 00:06:36.483
And now we have in the last eight months probably crossed that, that hurdle where there's more produced than there is dispensed into vehicles or demand from vehicles.
00:06:36.932 --> 00:06:41.552
So the, the key now going forward is continue to increase both.
00:06:42.517 --> 00:06:49.177
For a fleet owner, how does CNG compare with diesel on a diesel gallon equivalent basis?
00:06:50.608 --> 00:07:08.392
The quickest rule of thumb that I use, countrywide would just say would, would be to, I feel confident almost anywhere I go that I can say that, that the reduction in fuel cost per gallon will be at least a dollar 50 to $2 versus diesel.
00:07:08.973 --> 00:07:28.322
I mean, if, if you're in California or Oregon and you're looking at six to $8 diesel, if you in the US with natural gas trucks, you'd still be buying your natural gas, you could get it a dollar 50 to $2 if you had a contracted comittment of some sort with a CNG provider.
00:07:29.932 --> 00:07:42.226
And, is the CNG, RNG is that as volatile in terms of its fuel price as the petrol and diesel that we see today as a result of the war for example?
00:07:42.619 --> 00:07:52.038
No, that's, that's definitely, I mean, it's, it's almost negligible the amount of volatility in the natural gas market compared to the diesel market.
00:07:52.189 --> 00:08:16.668
But, you know, I think a lot of that has to do with, we have proven that we have a fossil fuel based natural gas, you know, supply that is domestic, that is readily available almost all year round Now, do you see spikes in natural gas once in a while, in January or February when we get hit with a real cold spell out of nowhere?
00:08:16.728 --> 00:08:17.689
Yeah, that happens.
00:08:17.689 --> 00:08:22.218
It, it really never continues to, know, stay that way for too long.
00:08:22.369 --> 00:08:23.238
It goes back.
00:08:23.538 --> 00:08:31.113
And for fleets are there particular profiles that make more economic sense for RNG and some that don't?
00:08:31.680
--> 00:08:40.140
I, I think there are, I think a lot of different organisations and people are doing the studies today to try to get the details worked out.
00:08:40.451 --> 00:08:49.770
I'd say at a very high level you want to make this argument to switching to, to natural gas or renewable natural gas on economic terms.
00:08:49.770 --> 00:08:54.510
It has to work for the companies first before it can be on the environmental terms.
00:08:55.201 --> 00:09:09.390
On the economic basis what you have at the most basic level is you have a truck that today you're going to have to pay about probably 70 to $90,000 more for the truck.
00:09:09.990 --> 00:09:12.061
And so you want to return on that investment.
00:09:12.811 --> 00:09:18.971
And so the more miles per year that you drive a truck, the faster you have a return on.
00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:20.780
So that,
00:09:21.085 --> 00:09:21.355
Sure
00:09:21.471 --> 00:09:39.980
the interesting qua thing there though is a lot of the trucks that are staying out on the road going long distance overnight, might think they drive the most miles so they get a return faster, but they get worried about the fact that is it gonna be harder to find a fuel station to fuel up?
00:09:39.980 --> 00:09:42.530
Am I really gonna get the prices I want?
00:09:43.149 --> 00:09:52.230
But then you get back to what's the best way to really roll this industry out and roll this out is to try to find maybe the trucks that we call return to base.
00:09:52.230 --> 00:09:55.350
At the end of the day, they go back to the base.
00:09:55.441 --> 00:09:58.530
You could have a fueling station behind the fence that's private.
00:09:58.530 --> 00:10:05.971
You could have a provider like us build geo fuel station within a block of two blocks, half a mile of your terminal.
00:10:06.061 --> 00:10:10.831
And so every night you get fueled up, the drivers go home, they come back the next day.
00:10:11.971 --> 00:10:20.341
You can find different types of trucking operations that the truck does a different number of miles per year.
00:10:20.400 --> 00:10:28.171
Some truck operations may be in some port areas, dray trucks may be only doing 30 to 50,000 miles a year.
00:10:28.410 --> 00:10:34.500
There's other in town return to base operations that still get 80 to a hundred thousand miles a year.
00:10:34.860 --> 00:10:44.600
If you get 80, if you get 80 to a hundred thousand miles a year, I think I believe pretty confidently that your payback period can be three years or less.
00:10:45.011 --> 00:10:48.402
And how do maintenance costs on an RNG truck compare with diesel?
00:10:49.182 --> 00:10:50.831
Yeah, there are differences.
00:10:50.922 --> 00:10:53.322
Some are very good.
00:10:53.407 --> 00:11:01.386
The biggest thing you don't have with an RNG engine, an RNG truck or CNG truck is all of the after treatment.
00:11:01.807 --> 00:11:03.756
All of the DEF fluid.
00:11:03.756 --> 00:11:13.807
There's DEF systems, there's technologies, you know, there's, there's additional equipment in the engine, in the truck, and it has to run and, and be taken care of.
00:11:13.807 --> 00:11:17.677
So you get rid of parts and things that can break things.
00:11:17.677 --> 00:11:23.126
You have to take care of additional fuel, you know fluids that you have to add to the truck.
00:11:23.307 --> 00:11:28.106
So that would, you know, naturally you start thinking, okay, I'm gonna save money on maintenance.
00:11:28.441 --> 00:11:28.856
Now.
00:11:28.917 --> 00:11:41.576
All those savings, you don't keep all of those savings because this engine is little bit different and it has, the major thing it has that the other doesn't have is it has spark plugs.
00:11:41.907 --> 00:11:42.866
What does that lead to?
00:11:42.866 --> 00:11:55.616
That leads to really, the preventive maintenance schedule is a little different and you'll stop the truck and bring it in a little more often than the diesel truck to have the spark plugs changed.
00:11:55.856 --> 00:12:02.907
So I, I usually just go with the maintenance over overall, over the lifetime is about the same.
00:12:03.626 --> 00:12:05.216
The savings are on the fuel.
00:12:06.296 --> 00:12:12.910
Fair enough And if the economics on the fuel can work so well why have heavy duty fleets been so slow to switch over?
00:12:13.594 --> 00:12:15.663
Oh, I think there's, there's a number of things.
00:12:15.714 --> 00:12:24.234
If I was gonna list them out, number one, as I said, this difference in price today is probably 70 to 90,000.
00:12:24.594 --> 00:12:27.563
Last year, I might have said 80 to a hundred thousand.
00:12:27.563 --> 00:12:30.293
I think the, the pricing is getting a little better.
00:12:30.563 --> 00:12:33.144
It's all about payback and economics.
00:12:33.234 --> 00:12:34.703
So I think that's a lot of it.
00:12:34.764 --> 00:12:38.063
But there's also, hey, this is brand new.
00:12:38.333 --> 00:12:39.774
This is brand new technology.
00:12:39.894 --> 00:12:42.774
We've never had a 15 litre natural gas engine.
00:12:43.134 --> 00:12:51.884
And if you get to people who've been in the trucking industry for decades not every engine change in engine that's come out in the market.
00:12:51.974 --> 00:12:59.594
And it's not, whether it's Cummins or a manufacturer, it's just the fact is, is not every time has it gone perfectly.
00:12:59.894 --> 00:13:07.183
So I think with this being early stage, some companies are gonna say, I don't want to be the first guy to test this out.
00:13:07.573 --> 00:13:09.524
So that's, I think, another part of it.
00:13:09.524 --> 00:13:20.504
And then the third is everybody's so used to seeing a truck stop at every exit on the interstate and never thinking about where am I gonna fuel up?
00:13:20.594 --> 00:13:23.923
You do have to do some planning, you have to think about it.
00:13:23.953 --> 00:13:27.943
There's not the same level of infrastructure on every interstate yet.
00:13:28.083 --> 00:13:36.303
We like to think that
actually that could end up being an advantage'cause we can set these things up more efficiently for the operation.
00:13:36.573 --> 00:13:39.094
But those, you know, those are definitely big concerns.
00:13:40.535 --> 00:13:45.390
Okay and what's harder about deployment than people expect
00:13:46.357 --> 00:13:48.697
What has been harder about the deployment?
00:13:48.878 --> 00:13:56.677
I, I think, I don't know if I'd say harder than they expected, as much as what is, what are they watching out for?
00:13:56.778 --> 00:14:00.587
The mechanics need to be trained.
00:14:00.827 --> 00:14:06.806
It's not a long, it's not a long process, but they do need to be trained on what is different.
00:14:07.577 --> 00:14:09.932
The driver needs to be trained a bit.
00:14:10.072 --> 00:14:17.538
It is not drastically different, but it works better to train them on how does this truck drive, what's the best way to drive it?
00:14:18.347 --> 00:14:35.957
The maintenance shops, the places where they work on these trucks in order to work on these trucks under a roof, or enclosed those shops need some changes in their infrastructure, some new safety systems, some new venting that can cost money.
00:14:36.177 --> 00:14:43.827
That has not been, you know, exactly take, you know, that that doesn't exist ever in every, at every exit in every city yet.
00:14:43.827 --> 00:14:48.298
So the infrastructure to support, just keeping the trucks on the road.
00:14:48.567 --> 00:14:59.217
If the trucking company is worried that they get halfway between, say, Miami, Florida and Atlanta, Georgia, the truck breaks, is there gonna be somewhere where they can work on this?
00:14:59.248 --> 00:15:00.508
They can't be down.
00:15:00.538 --> 00:15:02.727
It's a hard, you know, trucking is hard.
00:15:03.018 --> 00:15:04.668
They gotta be very efficient.
00:15:04.727 --> 00:15:07.518
They've gotta do a very good operation every day.
00:15:07.518 --> 00:15:13.128
And if you get a truck down and you can't fix it, they can be costly, just, you know, directly to the truck.
00:15:13.128 --> 00:15:17.748
And very costly on the operational efficiency in your service to your customers.
00:15:19.234 --> 00:15:24.094
Okay where do you see RNG fitting in relative to battery electric trucking?
00:15:24.735 --> 00:15:28.905
Yeah, I think the future is one where there will be kind of fit for purpose.
00:15:29.182 --> 00:15:40.822
You're gonna see trucking companies and private fleets look very closely at all technologies and figure out which one is best for their business.
00:15:40.822 --> 00:15:50.452
And I think you'll see trucking companies that before you know it, have diesel trucks, CNG trucks, electric trucks, and maybe some days some hydrogen trucks.
00:15:50.682 --> 00:15:56.097
And I think they're gonna find an op, you know, different routes and operations where each one are the best choice.
00:16:25.781 --> 00:16:32.561
All right and do you think RNG is competing with electrification or just buying time for sectors where batteries still struggle
00:16:33.269 --> 00:16:36.029
Yeah, I think that's a, that's a big discussion these days.
00:16:36.194 --> 00:16:41.249
I, I think there's a, i I, I can't say that I'm gonna have the answer.
00:16:41.309 --> 00:16:46.049
I don't know if anybody knows for sure and is gonna be right or wrong or knows they're right or wrong.
00:16:46.099 --> 00:17:03.529
But I, I do believe there's so many great things about the RNG ecosystem and the price points and the economics and where the prices can go in the future that I think we will, we'll always have a, a great part of the market in the future.
00:17:03.579 --> 00:17:19.808
There are others that think that that batteries are gonna get, even better and better, and that the costs are gonna get down and the range is gonna go up, and the rules around weight of the shipment are all gonna work out that electric can take everything.
00:17:19.808 --> 00:17:25.868
But I, I have my personal views, I have a hard time seeing that happening in 10 to 20 years.
00:17:26.551 --> 00:17:31.652
Critics would argue that RNG risks prolonging combustion dependency.
00:17:31.652 --> 00:17:33.272
Do you think that's a fair criticism?
00:17:34.049 --> 00:17:46.480
I, I, I think I, I guess the way you put it, my reaction is combustion dependency is not in itself a bad thing.
00:17:46.600 --> 00:17:48.190
I guess that's kind of my reaction.
00:17:48.190 --> 00:18:05.880
If you, if the combustion is RNG and you do the detailed study of what is RNG, what does it come from and what does it do for the environment and the atmosphere you might come back around to say, it's not the combustion that you don't like.
00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:07.799
It's the fossil fuels you don't like.
00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:31.110
And it's, yes, there's combustion and emissions at some level out of that truck, but have not developed a better way of incentivizing the, the improvements, the corrections, the adjustments that these RNG production plants, is growing, landfills are going to continue to exist.
00:18:31.140 --> 00:18:33.164
More trash is going into landfills.
00:18:33.450 --> 00:18:38.580
What are we gonna do with that gas that's, that's really bad for the atmosphere.
00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:50.009
The dairy farms, the swine farms, the wastewater treat, all of these very, very, you know, necessary pieces of society exist.
00:18:50.220 --> 00:19:00.840
And now we've found this great way of cleaning that up, getting, you know, doing something very positive and the best place to put it is into these combustion engines.
00:19:00.930 --> 00:19:05.400
So I, I think that's a much longer discussion, but it's, you know, it's an interesting one to have.
00:19:06.314 --> 00:19:14.894
The climate case still depends on the feedstock, methane leakage, what would otherwise happen to the waste gas and the accounting method.
00:19:15.703 --> 00:19:22.754
Those details determine the lifecycle benefit while,
combustion leaves local air pollution in play.
00:19:24.124 --> 00:19:27.754
Sure, and walk me through the landfill to fleet pathway in practical terms.
00:19:28.468 --> 00:19:32.758
Well, it's not as direct as I think people may want to think at first.
00:19:32.807 --> 00:19:34.398
That is something we run into.
00:19:34.748 --> 00:19:45.638
You go to any landfill, you do a lot of st you, you study what's in the landfill, how long has it been coming, how much is there, what's, what are the gases coming out of that landfill right now?
00:19:45.998 --> 00:19:47.768
How long are the gas is gonna last?
00:19:47.798 --> 00:19:55.129
You do the economic study, you design an engineer and construct a plant that is the right size for that landfill.
00:19:55.748 --> 00:19:59.567
You build the plant it's almost like, I mean, call it a refinery.
00:19:59.958 --> 00:20:06.587
You, you're taking a gas, sucking in the gases and they've got a lot of impurities in them.
00:20:06.738 --> 00:20:08.628
You pull out a lot of the bad stuff.
00:20:08.628 --> 00:20:20.688
You end up with very clean methane, natural gas, and in almost all cases, you directly inject that into the interstate or local pipeline systems.
00:20:21.048 --> 00:20:24.528
And there it's mixing with the fossil fuel gas.
00:20:24.901 --> 00:20:26.221
And what happens next?
00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:32.541
It's a little bit related to the renewable fuel standard and kind of, you know, it's a paper trail.
00:20:32.961 --> 00:20:45.291
So technically to, to create the incentives and keep the industry growing and incentivize these good people to build these production plants in the middle of nowhere, out where there's not a lot of development.
00:20:45.291 --> 00:20:55.010
Wherever there's a big landfill based on the regulations I get, I, you know, whoever has the plant to owns that molecule.
00:20:55.049 --> 00:21:01.071
You kind of own a molecule when it goes in and you, you get to control that renewable molecule until it goes out.
00:21:01.071 --> 00:21:06.770
So I can produce in Florida a molecule, put it into the pipeline system in Florida.
00:21:07.041 --> 00:21:13.520
And I can say that actually the molecule went out in my fuel station in Oregon.
00:21:13.611 --> 00:21:16.461
You don't have to put a fuel station next to the landfill.
00:21:16.760 --> 00:21:24.711
I know that can be a little bit hard to get through, but, but that's how it works in that it creates the right incentives to, to keep this going.
00:21:25.270 --> 00:21:28.391
So the physical gas mixes in the pipeline.
00:21:29.020 --> 00:21:40.061
What travels from a Florida producer to an Oregon fuel sale is the renewable attribute through a book and claim system rather than a particular molecule.
00:21:40.975 --> 00:21:48.295
Alright and what do you think heavy transportation fuel looks like in 10 years from now?
00:21:48.295 --> 00:21:50.275
What percentage do you think is electric?
00:21:50.275 --> 00:21:52.884
What percentage will remain combustion based?
00:21:52.884 --> 00:21:57.355
And does RNG meaningfully scale or would it stay niche in that kind of time period?
00:21:58.095 --> 00:21:59.795
You're gonna get my opinion again.
00:21:59.894 --> 00:22:01.765
I'm not gonna be correct.
00:22:02.015 --> 00:22:05.850
And I, and I'm a very positive about our sector.
00:22:05.950 --> 00:22:11.375
I, I, I believe in productivity and that everybody's creating new things that work very well.
00:22:11.375 --> 00:22:12.875
I believe in the electric.
00:22:13.295 --> 00:22:23.045
I, I think diesel, I think we can have diesel stay kind of flat, maybe even decrease, at least in this country.
00:22:23.045 --> 00:22:28.025
I think electric is gonna find a lot of great places where it works very well.
00:22:28.384 --> 00:22:41.015
But I also think that, I think that RNG is going to take, you know, in the next 10 years, somewhere at least 10 to 20% of annual truck purchases.
00:22:41.205 --> 00:22:43.450
And, and I think there's upside to that.
00:22:43.500 --> 00:23:01.670
So I think there's so many ways to make RNG and CNG very economical and very operationally efficient over the next 10 years that I think we can get to 10 to 20% on the CNG, RNG that I think it can work really long haul over the road and electric is going.
00:23:01.670 --> 00:23:05.690
I think they're gonna continue to go with more of the close end stuff.
00:23:05.690 --> 00:23:09.190
You need a high utilisation you know, the right weights.
00:23:09.190 --> 00:23:11.830
So I think it's gonna be really interesting to see where we go.
00:23:11.950 --> 00:23:14.769
But every, everybody's gonna gain some good market share.
00:23:15.578 --> 00:23:22.659
A practical question, if a fleet operator listening wants to seriously evaluate RNG where should they start?
00:23:23.710 --> 00:23:24.720
It is hard.
00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:26.100
You want to do it right.
00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:31.470
You want to make sure you do this very detailed analysis.
00:23:31.470 --> 00:23:39.210
You might want to be sure that you get to really try the truck, not just necessarily there are demo trucks out there that different companies have.
00:23:39.210 --> 00:23:40.710
We're gonna get one soon.
00:23:41.100 --> 00:23:46.200
Those programmes are usually a try the truck for a week, two weeks, maybe three weeks.
00:23:46.470 --> 00:23:59.799
We are actually at NoPetro working on a solution that we, we call it more of a pilot programme that is a little deeper, longer term trial, maybe 60, 90 days to really get a sense for it.
00:24:00.450 --> 00:24:11.035
Scott we're coming towards the end of the podcast now Is there any question I didn't ask that you wish I did or any aspect of this we haven't touched on that you think it's important for people to be aware of
00:24:12.145 --> 00:24:14.306
I think, I think this, I think you did a great job.
00:24:14.306 --> 00:24:20.395
I think, you know, we got through what it is, the differences, you know, it's, it, it, it's got a place, it'll fit.
00:24:20.395 --> 00:24:21.865
What are the challenges?
00:24:22.226 --> 00:24:28.346
And, you know, it's of us in the industry are working together.
00:24:28.405 --> 00:24:38.166
I, you know, the thing I tell people that are interested just be open, be open-minded and, and, and kind of curious.
00:24:38.556 --> 00:24:41.375
Okay and if people want to get in touch with you what's the best way to do so
00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:43.090
It's easy to find me through NoPetro.com.
00:24:44.650 --> 00:24:49.509
But sbrinner@nopetro.com is also pretty easy.
00:24:49.509 --> 00:24:50.950
That's my email address.
00:24:50.950 --> 00:24:52.330
Happy to get that out there.
00:24:52.920 --> 00:24:56.640
Perfect Great Scott that's been fascinating Thanks a million for coming on the podcast today
00:24:56.696 --> 00:24:57.446
Thank you, Tom.
00:24:57.446 --> 00:24:58.196
That was fun.
00:24:58.226 --> 00:24:58.556
Thank you.