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founder and then you know get a good deal. So that's where Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Mm. Tushar Kansal: Kansaltancy Ventures was formed in 2016 and over the last 10 years we have helped investments over 100 million dollars and across helped more than 5000 startups and road stage companies across funding, across management know-how and through our network and Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Okay. Tushar Kansal: today we are a network of around 70 1,500 venture capital funds and family offices and these are from across the world and and I also happen to do a lot of podcasting and online talks and I have been doing for the last 10 years and the number of views crossed 100 million sometime back So it has been Yeah, thank you. So it has been quite Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Wow, that's awesome. Yeah. Incre Tushar Kansal: fulfilling journey Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, what's been the most fulfilling part for you, Tusha? Because I the reason I asked that is because, you know, you've built Kansaltancy ventures around your expertise, your relationships and your reputation. And obviously now you're expanding into creating a much larger global investment ecosystem. Has it been your leadership evolution along this journey? Like what's what and I'll come back to the founders and the businesses and the investors that you work with, but for you, what's been the most fulfilling piece for you? Tushar Kansal: see the most fulfilling part is when you see when you see a company succeed where you have actually assisted the founder and also assisted the investors and then you know most of the time things are very difficult with a lot of investments and you are always wondering whether this company will do well or not but then there are times when the company just you know some of the portfolio companies do exceedingly well and you are so proud of them and you feel like telling the world that you have a stake in this company and you know generally you know speaking by the nature of startups they are quite fragile and it's a long journey for each of them so when we come in early then we always happen to know the progress of the company we have invested in but you know when the success happens when you are sitting in a coffee shop and somebody shows you the product of a startup in which you invested you feel so proud about it and you feel Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Mm. Tushar Kansal: that you made a difference and when it comes to podcasting like I was sitting in Starbucks and a guy came to me he said are you Tushar Kansal? I said yes I've been watching your podcast will you do business with me? then started explaining his business and so you know sometimes these things happen and one friend of mine was flying and he was talking about geopolitics to another person sitting next to him and the person sitting next to him said you must read Tushar Kansal's articles and he said I mean he's naming my friend in the flight I mean so these things sometimes happen and then you realize

that although you are primarily using the online media but it is making a difference. somewhere people are reading your views and so it is just the satisfaction otherwise life is what it is and there is no permanent you know recognition or the life goes on for everybody even for Bee Murray, Bee Formless: No. Tushar Kansal: prime ministers even for presidents who leave their jobs you know they start hardly getting any visitors and so you know it's all about the journey like you have to You have to enjoy the process. Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, I love it. I love it. And there were so many things you highlighted there in terms of your contribution. So your contribution to the founders, the startups. You mentioned that they're, you know, can start off very fragile and and this is why they need people like yourself, you know, myself and what we're doing in terms of Because it is a journey and it doesn't necessarily happen overnight. And so coming in fragile, it's like how do you get these founders, these businesses to move from fragility into the ability to bounce forward through the various forms of, you know, adversity hits and misses misses that excuse me, that happen within a business. Y you know, you also talked about deals and I I was keen Tushar Kansal: Yeah. Bee Murray, Bee Formless: to explore with you a little bit about Deals and success in terms of you don't seem like the sort of person that's transactional, you're very much relational, you you build these incredible relationships. What do you how would you define what success looks like and what a deal looks like in your your eyes? Tushar Kansal: Well, being an investor, know, of course, the return on investment matters the most. But then again, you know, it doesn't work the way of just looking at return. The way it works is that what did you create on the ground? You know, the company which you invested in, what did they change? What did they bring out? And which customers are buying, which customers are happy about? and end of the day the customer decides. So I'll give you an example. there is a nowadays in India the pet food has really started going up because people are keeping pets, cats, dogs. So I invested in a company and the founder was always Am I visible? Yeah. Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, your audio just went a bit funny then. You might need to repeat yourself. You just went out for a second there. You were just yeah. We just lost you for like a minute. Tushar Kansal: Sure, so we invested in a pet food company. We invested in a pet food company and the company was always short of working capital because their payment used to come from the online platform after 45 days or 30 days. So, know, end of the day, what we advise them was to strike a deal with the company of getting upfront payments, but maybe with a small discount and the way the founder followed our advice, he got a great deal from India's largest 10 minute delivery company and they offered him upfront payments

just for a 4 % discount and that deal has enabled him to grow from nothing to practically huge business in less than one, one and a half years. yeah, I mean, imagine that today you have a warehouse and you are stocking pet products and then suddenly one, the second largest 10 minute delivery platform in India, then they offer you to that, you know, they will showcase your products in the front on their store. And then you have a problem that you don't have money to buy and give them the products because there's a shortage of working capital. But you know, you strike a deal with them that for every stuff you send to them on their warehouse, they'll give you instant payment with a 4 % discount. And it was awesome. mean, the company took off like anything. And Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah. Tushar Kansal: so, you know, naturally, know, even if out of 10, 5 of your investments, off like that you feel so satisfied and you can see that you know whenever I open that platform I talk to people people are buying that particular product and it is really satisfying. Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, absolutely. What do you see with founders in terms of like it's a mindset game, right? It's mindset, it's you know, it's due diligence, it's focus, it's consistency. What do you see right now as the biggest challenges or opportunities that founders are facing right now? Tushar Kansal: See that's a good question B. So the thing is the founder has to think like a founder. The founder has not to think like an investor. He is not an investor in the company. He's the leader. So Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah. Tushar Kansal: you know he has to not evaluate the company as something in which he has put in money and then something will happen and he will make a return. He has to make things happen and Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah. Tushar Kansal: And founders sometimes get into the mode of micromanagement and because startups are always starved of cash. So what happens is their mindset becomes like a poor person's mindset from where will the next Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah. Tushar Kansal: money come from where will the next employee come. So they you know they start focusing on the smaller things and you know instead of focusing on the vision instead of focusing on the right hires. and then, you know, taking merit and giving them a free hand and, you know, they start focusing on the wrong things. So, of the day, are two things which they have to mainly focus on. One is the right talent. They have to keep on focusing on hiring the best people, interviewing them and then, you know, motivating them in such a way that once the company succeeds, these people, all make some good money maybe through employee stock option plans or something and secondly is cash flow. mean the founder has to keep an eye on the needle that from where is my money coming in and from where it is going. mean once you start a company the costs are always there the office expenses the the employee payments the know salaries the marketing budget but you know if are marketing team your business development team does not fire the whole cash flow in front of you collapses like a pack of cards. So, know, although your eye should be always on the cash flow, your marketing team has to be really good. They should know the product in and out. They should know the sector in and out and they should also know what is the company's strategy to capture the market and maybe there are some short term strategies, some long term strategies. What are the What are competitors doing and what are they doing wrong? Because each mistake you do will cost you money. Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah. Tushar Kansal: you want to avoid all these. then as some very famous unicorn founders have said that you have to keep on working on a day zero mindset. That we are still a start up and we have to work every day to make it a success. principles they hold strong. Customer first is like there is a guy who used to tell me that I am a founder and I belong to a different mindset but my team they you know sometimes they have a mindset that they are doing a job so they'll just come do their work and leave. So I told him that you know whenever have a meeting with your team keep a free seat a seat which says this is the customer sitting here. Bee Murray, Bee Formless: that's Tushar Kansal: end of Bee Murray, Bee Formless: a good idea. Tushar Kansal: the day yeah that we have to hear the customers views also and you know Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, no, I love that you I love that whole idea of keeping a free seat though. That's a really smart, clever idea. keep a keep a free seat in the in the meeting. You you never have a free seat. Tushar Kansal: Yeah, and... Bee Murray, Bee Formless: It's just like but thinking about that customer, that invisible person becomes visible. Tushar Kansal: Yeah, yeah. Bee Murray, Bee Formless: it's almost like what you're talking about here is that rather than s rather than putting the customer over here and them them in invisible, make them visible in everything you're doing is basically what you're saying here. Tushar Kansal: Yeah, absolutely. if the customer is paying for what you are discussing in endless meetings, then it makes sense. And, And and always I think, small meetings are good, not more than two, three people, mostly decision makers, not frequent meetings. And instead of long, you know, long discussion points, always very short memos. And, you know, one always, you know, avoids all this bureaucracy. If you work in a day zero mindset and, and, and So, these are some very simple tools. In fact, my book, The Money Behind the Business got launched on Kindle and Google Play Books a couple of days back. So I talk about. Bee Murray, Bee Formless: congratulations. Tushar Kansal: Thank you. So I talk about how do you implement the project management, product management and people management in a startup? How those principles actually work

practically speaking? and so actually if you do MBA or you talk to some management leaders, you know, they make things sound so difficult. But the thing is that Bee Murray, Bee Formless: It's well it's complicated, isn't it? It's complicated because what what Tushar Kansal: Yeah, everybody gets scared what are you studying and what is it about? But when you start applying them in their simplest fashion, that's when you realize that some things are practical and some things are not practical. And Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Agree, agree. Tushar, the other thing that I I wanted to share with you and I'd love your thoughts on this is you you've made some really invaluable points here and just in terms of day zero always, that day zero mindset, the the free seat for the customer. And you talked about the team and that the founder is the founder and yet sometimes the team in the business are treating it like a job. My view in terms of as I've, you know, had my own experience in startup and scaling to the size I've scaled to is that To of to I guess eliminate that this is just a job for the employee. It's about also sharing with them the numbers and getting them as cross as much of the business and making them like it's business acumen, right? It's financial acumen in terms of making them accountable for the business. So you're not gonna give them every bit of detail. However I think that quite often in a traditional world and a traditional sense it's like, no, we've got to keep them the keep the team away from, the numbers and where we're sitting, etcetera, et cetera. And you bring up cash flow and all of that. I disagree. I've I've always had the mindset of the team need to be fully aware of it. They need to be aware of whether we we're making a profit, whether we're not, where we're at from a cash flow perspective. So that everyone is coming together as a team to go, all right, we're we're in a bit of a fragile state or moment. What are we doing to get ourselves out of that? To go forward? Do you know what I mean? Tushar Kansal: Yeah, you're absolutely right. you have to hire for attitude and train them the skill sets. And... Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, absolutely. Tushar Kansal: And also, I think the founder should speak last, you know, you, you hear your team out and then you realize which guys are focusing on the needle and which guys are just doing a job. They're just doing their work and going back. And end of the day, is about even if your skill set in your employee is less, but if their attitude is great, they will end up doing the work expected of them. And you something is somethings are sacrosanct like reliability and trust are sacrosanct those those things they are the first thing which one needs because Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Mm. Tushar Kansal: you know even if a person is super skilled or you know if they don't you know work in the interest of the company doesn't make any sense and Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Mm, absolutely. Tushar Kansal: yeah So, Bee Murray, Bee Formless: You keep going, sorry. Tushar Kansal: so the thing is that when it comes to talent, then always remember that, you know, some people, are high scale and high will. So, know, their self motivation is very high and their skill set is also very high. So you need such kind of people. If their willpower Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Mm. Tushar Kansal: is low and skill is high, then also it won't work. Maybe you need to counsel them, mentor them. But if both are missing skill and will, then that person does not belong to the startup world. And so, you know, Bee Murray, Bee Formless: No, I I agree and I think it's Tushar Kansal: Please carry on. Yeah. Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Much. No, I was just going to say, skill and will and and sometimes these people aren't set up for start up well. I agree. And I I think that, it's ripped the band-aid off fast and, remove the remove the talent faster if they're not if it if they're not the right fit. And I think this is quite often sometimes what causes blocks in in startups or businesses that are scaling is they hold on to the wrong talent for too long when actually it's holding up the rest of the it's it's c it's holding up business. So and there's this kind of fear, I think, at times of I d you know, I don't want to like I I want to do the right thing. And it's like it's not personal, it's just business. And I and I even go back to some of the you know staff members that I held on to for longer than I should have. And I look back now and I'm just like, I d I would have just ripped it off. Like it just Tushar Kansal: They, one bad fish, they just spoil the whole culture of the company and, know, Jack Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Totally. Tushar Kansal: Welch of General Electric used to say that every year you should fire the bottom 10 to 15 % of those who are not performing because it sets the right example. And also always remember that they will be 20 % of the people who will be actually moving the needle and doing all the job of the company. The others are just going. along and so Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, absolutely. Tushar Kansal: you know so you can't expect a leadership trait in everybody in fact a leadership trait in everybody is not required also because a Bee Murray, Bee Formless: No. Tushar Kansal: lot of the stuff which companies do is process oriented and you know it's it has to Bee done in a process manner so and you know so Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Absolutely. No, keep going. We're in a flow. We're both we're both wanting to share our our like our thinking. It feels like we've got a lot of you and I've got a lot in common. I have a question for you though, in terms of VC and venture capital. And I mean you feel very new world order and refreshing in regards to how you're seeing startups, relationships, y you talk you talk my language. I you know, I I call it leadership strategy business brand, you know, the brand, the marketing plays a big role in it. In

terms of you've been and you've been around quite some time. I'm not suggesting you're old. We're probably around the same age. So we you know, you're only as young as old as you feel or as young as you feel. Do you think that we're in a an interesting point in time z time in terms of from a venture capital investment ecosystem. Are we seeing a new ecosystem transpiring from the traditional like if I th I I compare it to consultancy, right? You've played in the you've been in the Big Four before. Like there's a lot happening in the world, full stop, especially with AI. What are you seeing that is fundamentally changing within the the VC ecosystem? investment ecosystem and then also what you're building. Tushar Kansal: Well, I see that, you know, a lot of the times when you start out as a VC, you start believing in doing very unique things like some deep tech startup, some space startups. And then there comes a time when you feel that you need to put money where the cash flow is. Like, so, you know, like in India, there are VCs who started out with being a deep And then later on they realized that the Indian companies always face a competition in this field from the US companies and the US companies are better funded because Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Mm. Tushar Kansal: of the dollar availability being so high in US. So you know Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Mm. Tushar Kansal: then they moved to the safer zones like the consumer side. You just invest in a consumer company they'll create a new product. They'll launch it on the website. Cash flow will start coming in through Insta sales and then you know your company will somehow have good valuation and then you know so they are today's VC is doing the the simple job of chasing sectors where fast growth is visible even if the sector is not typically a VC favorite like you know they would invest in very you can say market aligned companies but you know at the same time I know of companies where people have invested in space tech rocket launching and some of them are doing really well like you know Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah. Tushar Kansal: because because after SpaceX IPO, know, the valuations are crazy in the space sector. so, so this is the thing and and many times what happens is that you tend to invest in a company which is copying a successful business model. You feel that let us not take a chance. this type of company succeeded in that country. So let us invest in a similar company here. And there are VCs who made a career out of doing this. Copying Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Mm. Tushar Kansal: business models and but you know, when it comes to deep tech, there are long gestation companies. It takes them 10 to 15 years to do something Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, yeah. Tushar Kansal: meaningful. And the good part is that in India, Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, it's funny you s it's funny you call that out 'cause because Tushar Kansal: Yeah, please. Bee Murray, Bee Formless: No, sorry, it was

I the Wi Fi's a little bit funny. I it's funny you call that I was saying it was funny you call that out because you were just saying ten to fi t can take ten to fifteen years and this comes right back to back to success and you know slow and steady wins the race sort of thing. And you know, from a VC perspective, I've I've spoken to quite a few of recent and you know, we've been talking about this patient capital in terms of coming right back to what problem are you solving? You know, customer first. patience versus what you're talking about that not necessarily fast cash, etc. It's like what is the long term impact that it's going to make. I think that's a really interesting space from a from a V C perspective. And I personally, you know, feel that we're going to see more and more of that because it's coming right back to the problem, the customer long ter long term versus short term and and if you think about even a from an AI perspective, there's a lot of shiny businesses out there that we're probably gonna see bottom out over the next twelve months because they've jumped on this bandwagon of AI and it's like Well, where's the substance behind it? Is it actually and this is where I think a lot of founders, and again I'd love your thoughts on this, is it's not don't chase the quick cash. It comes back to your your cash flow, right? Like in terms of have a long range, have a range that you can g that keeps you going versus that poor mindset, that like desperate mindset. That's what I feel like in terms of what we're gonna we're going to see more of. To to stay in the game? Tushar Kansal: Well, the quick answer to your question is that that there are some parts of your business which move the needle faster. So, Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah. Tushar Kansal: end of the day, if you are not building a cash flow and only building the product or the customer or the numbers around the number of views, the number of you know, it doesn't work in today's time because you know, people are very conservative with cash. and and the patience level of people is not so high long and Good part is that you know, even if look at the Indian market The Indian market for small company IPOs got opened up for three years back So nowadays a lot of money has come into small company IPOs, which is trickling down and these companies are further investing in Startups, so, know, Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Mm. Tushar Kansal: so ultimately somebody has to fund the growth it better be a customer rather than investor and because because Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah. I was gonna ask you that. I was ac I was gonna ask you that. What d what do you believe? Is it better the cus better investing the customer than an investor? and you've just answered my question. Tushar Kansal: Definitely, definitely, definitely it's better. The money better come from the customer because the Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah. Tushar Kansal: investor see the investor will always keep on pushing you to

do fast to go faster. Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Go faster get the c yeah, hit the numbers, hit the numbers. Tushar Kansal: Yeah, and then you do silly things. You'll try to open some new markets and then hire some people and... make some financial losses and be under stress all the time and then looking for further investments all the time and that's a crazy way of growing and Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Alrighty. Yeah. Tushar Kansal: but you know to be very frank there are founders who have made a huge money out of that kind of breakneck growth and they made huge money even if the company didn't go anywhere later on. Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah. It's I I guess it comes back to p purpose. Tushar Kansal: because at some point it yeah please. Bee Murray, Bee Formless: No, I was just saying I think I I guess it comes back to purpose. I have two final questions for you, Tushar, and it's I I'll start with the first one because you've just been talking about it. You know, bur burnout is prevalent and there's this whole work hard, hustle, hustle, hustle and you know, click cash and and then there's this purpose piece. What advice do you give your the the people in your ecosystem and the founders in your ecosystem in terms of not not burning themselves out? It's a long game, not a short game. Because for some some startups it can take three to five years before you hit any form of profit or product market fit. You're testing, learning, testing, learning. Do you not and so it it can take it it's not necessarily back to your point, it's not always an overnight success. So what advice do you give the founders around this? Tushar Kansal: That's a very very good question B. So what happens is when you become a founder you start you know you somehow you will answer WhatsApp messages all the time even if it is evening it is late night early morning and then you know you'll feel like you know that the company has to continue working and then you stop having discipline health discipline and and that is not good at all. You can't Bee Murray, Bee Formless: No. Tushar Kansal: burn yourself out in 2-3 years and then say that I have achieved something because it comes at the cost of your health. So, Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Great. Tushar Kansal: it is not easy because if you are the founder then everything ultimately rests on you. The ultimate responsibility is on you. So, you the way out for that is that you focus on the culture you are creating in the company. Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, absolutely. Tushar Kansal: If the culture of the company is great then other people will take proper responsibility and they will ensure Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, absolutely. Tushar Kansal: that they are working in the interest of the company. But you know the culture is a very sensitive thing. You have to do many things over and over again to reinforce the culture and typically a startup is like a fish market. So sometimes the culture gets neglected. and the founders tend to think I don't have patience for this cutting cakes and making a culture but that is where the moat lies if your company culture is... Bee Murray, Bee Formless: hundred percent agree. I hundred percent agree. Thank you for that. A startup is like a fish market. I love that. sometimes it gets last but not least, we we talked at the very start of this podcast and you and you're like epitomizing personal brand in terms of it's so important for all leaders, founders to have a personal brand. And I'm not suggesting just going out and just being like everyone else. Like you've got your own distinctive assets. I've got my my distinctive assets and look what happens. You're getting talked about on a plane. You know, someone else comes up to you in a cafe. I I think today more than ever, personal brand and how it connects to your business brand is They're one in the same and yet I still see all the time either someone doesn't have a personal brand at all or the business brand sits over here and then there's this story that needs to come together. What's your v what I I guess it is it advice I'm asking from you? Yeah, I I I think it's advice. What would you what advice would you give to a founder who's just starting out, doesn't have any brand present personal brand presence? Nor does their business brand. What would be your advice based on your success and and what you're doing? Tushar Kansal: Well B, not everybody has to make a personal brand. because only if you are good at something, you good at speaking, you good at communication, you good at some knowledge, genuine knowledge you have, then you do it. You don't Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah. Tushar Kansal: do it because others are doing it because Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah. Tushar Kansal: you know, if you are not good at it, it can backfire. And there are people Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Okay. Tushar Kansal: who are doing a particular company, but then they will start talking about all controversial issues and then spoil the the market presence of the brand. There was a guy here who is one of the very famous actors. This guy was hired by a company as their brand endorser and he started talking very stupid stuff about religion and you know end of the day a lot of people started uninstalling the app of the company and ultimately they had to chuck him out. So you know, Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, okay. Tushar Kansal: so it works both ways. Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah. Yeah, it's a good point actually. Yeah, it is a good point. I think that I I I I think you're absolutely right. I just think it's being consistent as well in terms of if you do have a personal brand being consistent with how you're distinctively I guess communicating how you're who you distinctively are and not getting caught being authentic. There's being authentic and doing it with discernment as well. Like you know, like understanding what's appropriate, what's not appropriate. Tushar, great conversation. Here I go. I said we'll go for thirty minutes. We've been talking for nearly forty minutes. Is there anything else you would like to share before we we wrap up our conversation? Tushar Kansal: Well, my book is available, the money behind the business, it's available on Kindle, it's available on all the international book websites, including in Australia, New Zealand. And, you know, I've written about how product management, people management and project management work on a practical side in startups and how do investors think and how founders think. I'm sure the viewers will love this book and they'll get to take you know the motto of my talks has always been simplifying life and industry with meaningful talks so I have simplified everything for the start of founder and my best wishes to all the investors and all the founder and to you for now starting again and that's so awesome and I wish you all the best Bee Murray, Bee Formless: thank you, Tushar. Thank you so much. And so then last but not least, how do we find out more about besides your book, how do we find out more about you? How do we find out more about Kansaltancy Ventures and you've got your podcast? Where do we go? Tushar Kansal: Yeah, I have my podcast. So if you search my name to Shahar console, you'll find more than 1000 videos and my website is Kansultancy.com and I'm available on LinkedIn as well. Instagram as well. Real to Shahar console on Instagram and on LinkedIn by my name and happy to connect and have a conversation. Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Amazing. Tushar, thank you so much for your time. It's been thoroughly enjoyable and wishing you the happiest of happy Fridays and the and your weekend Tushar Kansal: Same to you. Bee Murray, Bee Formless: ahead. So thank you so much. Namaste, thank you. You too. Tushar Kansal: Thanks. Thanks. Have a good day.