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This week on the WriterCon podcast.
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Perseverance. I think you study your craft, you write and
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write and write, and you do not quit no matter what,
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no matter how many rejections. You just need one person
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to say yes. If you believe in it and that
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your stories are stories of your heart, you just keep
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going with them.
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Welcome to WriterCon, a gathering place for writers to share
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their knowledge about writing and the writing world.
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Do you have a desire to write?
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Thank you, Jesse Ulrich. Thank you.
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Hey there, writers.
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We are coming to you live from WriterCon 2026. We
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have assembled in Oklahoma City with over 300 people who
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care about books, literature, and the art and craft of writing.
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This is the third day of a jam-packed schedule that
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includes contests, pitching to agents, talking to publishers, and, of course,
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attending more than 100 sessions led by some of the
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top authors and industry pros.
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In the nation.
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It's been an amazing experience. Jesse, of course, is the
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only way we make this possible. He's handled the sound
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for this event. He's recording all the sessions. And Friday night,
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he made what I think is his debut as a
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single DJ. Was that a good fit for you, Jesse?
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It certainly was. There's nothing I love more than running
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a joke into the ground.
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You have immortalized the battle of Bilbo Baggins.
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Hell yeah.
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I heard about that.
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Nimoy had an okay run with it, but yours is better.
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I found my people.
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And Laura, last night we got to hear you sing
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like a princess. And this afternoon you're officiating at WriterCon Jeopardy.
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So fun.
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What's your favorite part of the conference?
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I'm going to have to say my favorite part.
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Is seeing all my people. I love making connections here.
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I love seeing the older, the people who come back.
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Again and again, the repeat visitors. And then I like
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welcoming in all of our new attendees.
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We just grow every year and it's a bigger family
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every year.
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It feels like a family reunion to me.
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I love it.
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Yeah.
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Well, this is a very special episode of the podcast
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because we have not one. not two, but three major
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luminaries with us. We have, of course, tonight's keynote speaker,
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the number one New York Times best-selling historical novelist and
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screenplay writer, William Martin. We have USA Today best-selling thriller
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and romance writer, Danny Petri. And Dan and Martin, who
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writes for games and much, much more, and all.
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Of us are with us today.
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We'll talk to all of them, I promise. Bill, Martin,
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this is your second time to be a WriterCon keynote,
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and I believe you are the first person to ever
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hold that distinction. What caught your attention this year? We've changed,
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haven't we?
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Well, I would say that it's much bigger. There are
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people from how many states did you tell me?
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Twenty-nine. Twenty-nine states, along with a few other countries.
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Seven countries.
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Not to brag. Right, right.
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But with all the size, the thing that hasn't changed
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that I really like feeling here is the positive energy component.
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Uh, the vibe is very happy here.
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Everybody really, uh, is enjoying themselves and I hope learning
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something about writing and, uh, and we'll bring that particular
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positive energy back to their desks and their libraries and
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their quiet places wherever they sit down and beat their
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head on the wall for two, four, six, or 18
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hours a day, whatever it takes to write the books because, uh,
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What an event like this does is inspire people with
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that kind of positive energy and give people a sense
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that they can do it too.
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Load full transcript
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That's, I think, what we're trying to do here.
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Dan, you are also back to both the podcast and
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the conference.
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Impressions? Notice anything different?
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Different?
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I say it's got the best parts of it continuing
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on because I.
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I kind of want to echo what Laura said.
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It's like, see, I'm, I'm seeing all these friends that
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I made two years ago and there's, I'm seeing their progress.
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I guess that's the difference is that.
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Two years on the people that I was talking to
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two years ago, they've, uh, they've.
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Written their books, they've published books, they've grown their business.
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Uh, and so it's nice to see that, but it's, uh,
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it's also, it's a family affair for the Bernhards I know. And, uh,
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it's nice for it to be something of a family
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affair here at my, my, Parents were not here at
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my last stop.
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We kind of switched off, and my wife is here.
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So we've got the whole game.
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Right. Yeah, right. And, Dani, first time at the conference
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and on the podcast.
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What do you think?
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I am loving it.
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It has been the most welcoming conference I've ever been to.
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People are so willing to just say, let's go sit
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down and talk. And I've met a lot of writers.
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It's their first conference, and they've said the same exact thing.
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So the classes are phenomenal, but meeting people has been
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the absolute best.
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Great. That's what I love to hear.
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All right.
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We're going to talk to all three of these prestigious people,
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I promise. And I have some especially tough questions.
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I'm kidding.
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I don't really. And we've got a special event from
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Jesse as well.
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But first, the news. News story number one.
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If you listen to the podcast regularly, you'll recall that
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a U.S. federal court several months ago ruled that Tracy
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Wolf's Craig series, published by Entangled, did not infringe on
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Lynn Freeman's vaguely.
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Similar fantasy couple.
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The two stories share fantasy tropes But according to the court,
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that's it.
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After the ruling, the defendants, which include the.
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Author, sued Freeman to recover their legal fees, which, by
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the way, totaled more than $ 3 million. The court has
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now ordered Freeman to pay those fees.
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Worse, Freeman has to put up a bond of $ 150, 000
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just to cover the legal fees while the appeal is pending.
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And if that sounds harsh, I kind of think that
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was the idea. I should point out that Freeman is
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herself a lawyer, which may have added to the judge's irritation.
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The judge thought the suit was brought in bad faith,
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and awarding attorney's fee or attorney fees might deter other
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people from filing similar frivolous lawsuits. I should point out,
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this judge had to read over 6,000 pages of a
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romantic scene to determine if there was any.
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And afterwards she said that the.
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Allegations were things like, well, the protagonists in both books
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smell good.
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She did not feel that was a copyright infringement.
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In fact, the court said that that trivializes copyright law.
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Laura, are you disturbed? that a lawyer, that an author, rather.
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Has been slammed with a huge judgment she will likely
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never be able to pay.
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My heart is still racing. I could stop for a
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second when I heard $ 3 million. That's a huge amount.
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I would be horrified if that was a judgment imposed
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upon me.
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But then again, I probably wouldn't have brought that lawsuit.
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Yes, you wouldn't.
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But, yes.
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You have better legal counsel than that. Absolutely.
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I have in-house counsel who would have told me, don't bother.
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Danny, I have to
ask you because I know back
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in the day you wrote some romance.
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Did your leads smell good? I would have to say
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the male leads did smell good. Good to know. News
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story number two.
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Some of you may have read recently that debut author
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Jerry Balad, apologies.
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If I'm mispronouncing your name, had.
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His $ 2 million book deal canceled because his agents, not
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the publisher, but the agents came to believe that his
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manuscript was, this is a quote, substantially AI-assisted, end quote.
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This book was circulated to 14 editors, building up to
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this huge auction until someone read the manuscript.
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And flagged science of AI.
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Then they used some AI detection software and decided that, well,
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they virtually confirmed that AI was used.
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For at least part of the book.
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And that's how you see your $ 2 million deal go away.
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My question, of course, was, do.
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These guys read the stuff they're bidding on?
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I mean, this should have been I would think, apparent.
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I don't know.
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Bill, you've been around, I think, doing this even longer.
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Than I have. What's your reaction to this?
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Well, the reaction to AI is that I'm glad I've
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been around a long time, and my career is in
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its final years, I would suspect.
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Because I don't want to have to be.
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Worried about AI either supplanting me or making it appear
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as if I'm using AI in my research or someplace else.
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And I think it's pretty scary, the potential for editorial
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organizations and for movies and movie producers and a lot
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of other people begin to tell themselves, well, we can
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do without the writers.
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No, you can't.
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There are certain human skills that we're going to bring
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to any project that a computer can't. No matter how
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many ways they find to steal our work, the work
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of everybody up here has been fed into a computer somewhere.
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and that computer has begun to spit out our style,
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you can type in, like chat GPT, write me an
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opening scene in the style of Bill Bernheim, and it'll
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come back and you'll say, wow, don't I sound like myself?
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And it's kind of scary, think about it. And then
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they will use that mimicking process in order to create
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fictions that have been written by machines.
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And then we'll be moving into the days of Terminator games.
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Dan, I have to ask you, because you work in games,
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which is sort of digital.
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What's the attitude toward AI there? It is very conflicted.
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It depends on what department you ask and what you're
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asking about. The way I look at it, and people
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in my department, is that we still beat the machine.
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The machine can't know what we do.
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And even if they get closer, the machine will never
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have a point of view. And that's what people.
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Even if they can't articulate it, that's what people want
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from their art and entertainment.
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Yeah, yeah, that's right.
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Here's a quote. Hugh Howey commented on this on his website.
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He said, quote, Most readers will care about machine versus
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meat as much as they currently care about publishing imprints,
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which is to say almost none. Book series will go
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viral and readers will get wholly absorbed in And where
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the story came from won't matter, end quote.
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But he did add, he did.
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Add, to be fair, there will be meat book fanatics,
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people who care about the stories behind the stories. The
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author will matter to them.
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Jesse.
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Speaking as a meat reader, are you interested in meat writers? Yes,
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I do care who the author is.
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I care about the life they have lived. I care
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about their work. I'm not going to read something that
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I know is written by a machine. And I feel
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like most readers will eventually care about that.
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I think there's.
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Enough AI negativity in the ether.
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Right now that people actually do care about this. I
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think you're right.
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All right, before we proceed to Craft Corner today, I
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understand that Jesse has something special prepared for us.
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I do. A very fun game.
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But first.
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In the middle of the earth, from the.
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Land of the stars, a brave little hobbit we all
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admire and love.
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I just wanted to include that in the podcast. Thanks, everybody.
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Continue to run it into the ground. Into the ground.
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All right. This game is called Is It Real?
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Time to test your knowledge of writer-comic podcast number one enemy,
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even though he seems like a really good dude who
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donates money to worthy causes, James Patterson. There's going to
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be a list of ten books that he has co-authored
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with somebody. And you're going to tell me whether it's
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real or fake.
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Now, let me go through the rules. I always skip this.
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All right.
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00:14:45.580 --> 00:14:47.179
So obviously I will show you a list of ten books.
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You will tell me whether they're real or fake.
254
00:14:48.919 --> 00:14:52.820
And if you all win, I will be punished by
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00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:55.350
reading whatever James Patterson book you want me to read.
256
00:14:55.379 --> 00:14:58.970
Because my father-in-law.
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00:14:58.450 --> 00:14:59.789
Has all of them.
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00:14:59.850 --> 00:15:02.049
Okay. We should explain to the panel that Jesse has
259
00:15:02.149 --> 00:15:04.070
a long-standing Patterson fixation.
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I do.
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I do.
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00:15:06.250 --> 00:15:08.129
And his writing mill that he runs.
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00:15:08.570 --> 00:15:11.509
Even though he seems like a really good person who
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00:15:11.549 --> 00:15:13.909
does a lot of good things, we've just decided this
265
00:15:13.970 --> 00:15:16.409
is how we're going to get, you know, hits at.
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Some Google Analytics and whatnot until he comes on the podcast.
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00:15:18.509 --> 00:15:19.450
I will keep calling.
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00:15:19.250 --> 00:15:19.769
Him our enemy.
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00:15:19.850 --> 00:15:23.120
He's our nemesis. Yes, he's our nemesis. Even though, again,
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00:15:23.139 --> 00:15:24.179
he seems like a good dude.
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00:15:24.500 --> 00:15:24.720
All right.
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Book one.
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Yes.
274
00:15:29.559 --> 00:15:29.820
Yes.
275
00:15:30.539 --> 00:15:34.539
Sing Me Home, co-authored with Dolly Parton. True or false,
276
00:15:34.559 --> 00:15:35.879
is it real or fake?
277
00:15:37.330 --> 00:15:39.169
I'll say true because I know he did a book
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00:15:39.250 --> 00:15:39.710
with Dolly.
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00:15:39.789 --> 00:15:41.870
I'm not sure that's the title. I was going to
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00:15:41.929 --> 00:15:47.299
say fake. All right, it is false. False.
281
00:15:48.620 --> 00:15:51.480
Rose Run was the one he co-authored with Dolly Parton.
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00:15:51.940 --> 00:15:52.940
Aha, I got you.
283
00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:55.379
But if you're curious about what the plot of Seeing
284
00:15:55.399 --> 00:15:57.659
Me Home is, it is a country star gets entangled
285
00:15:57.980 --> 00:16:00.559
in a high-profile Nashville murder mystery when.
286
00:16:00.460 --> 00:16:02.279
A stolen demo tape reveals a dark secret.
287
00:16:04.059 --> 00:16:04.379
Of course.
288
00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:06.679
I came up with plots for all these fake books.
289
00:16:07.139 --> 00:16:11.059
That's what it got me right on. So it's Grillo, Nashville?
290
00:16:11.320 --> 00:16:11.600
Yep.
291
00:16:11.779 --> 00:16:12.039
Yes.
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00:16:12.059 --> 00:16:15.779
All right. Book two, The Most Dangerous Game, co-written with Mr.
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00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:15.960
Beast.
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00:16:19.029 --> 00:16:22.240
Awesome. I know we did something with Mr. Beast, so
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00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:24.679
I'm saying thumbs up. It is true. This book just
296
00:16:24.740 --> 00:16:28.080
came out. It came out five days ago. Its pre-orders
297
00:16:28.100 --> 00:16:30.580
were only tracking only the four digits.
298
00:16:31.059 --> 00:16:31.379
What?
299
00:16:31.710 --> 00:16:35.289
Yeah, it was not tracking well because James Patterson's audience
300
00:16:35.330 --> 00:16:36.629
doesn't want to read it and Mr.
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00:16:36.669 --> 00:16:38.190
Beast's audience doesn't read, so.
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00:16:41.970 --> 00:16:43.169
If you're curious about.
303
00:16:43.110 --> 00:16:45.809
The plot of the most dangerous game, it is set
304
00:16:45.870 --> 00:16:46.029
in a.
305
00:16:45.990 --> 00:16:47.169
World on the brink of collapse.
306
00:16:47.190 --> 00:16:50.879
A thousand strangers receive a confidential invitation, but only a
307
00:16:50.889 --> 00:16:52.700
hundred make the cut to compete.
308
00:16:53.240 --> 00:16:53.720
In what?
309
00:16:53.740 --> 00:16:55.799
We don't know. All right.
310
00:16:55.820 --> 00:16:58.360
I said a little while ago that I was glad
311
00:16:58.379 --> 00:17:01.720
that my career has been around for five decades, so
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00:17:01.740 --> 00:17:08.579
it's probably getting late in the game. And I realize that.
313
00:17:08.880 -->
00:17:11.710
I'm probably the only one up here who doesn't have
314
00:17:11.750 --> 00:17:16.049
the foggiest idea of who Mr. Beast is.
315
00:17:16.269 --> 00:17:20.869
Congratulations. You live a blessed life. It's always candy bars
316
00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:24.200
at Walmart. Listen, his videos are incredibly compelling. He's very
317
00:17:24.220 --> 00:17:27.839
good at making them. All right, next book. Overtime, co-authored
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00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:28.839
with Shaquille O'Neal.
319
00:17:30.259 --> 00:17:33.740
Real or fake? I haven't heard about that. I'm going
320
00:17:33.779 --> 00:17:35.700
to go false.
321
00:17:35.720 --> 00:17:38.079
That is sadly false.
322
00:17:38.819 --> 00:17:39.059
But.
323
00:17:40.609 --> 00:17:42.490
Can you imagine a micro-something like this?
324
00:17:43.069 --> 00:17:45.910
An NBA legend turned detective works to solve the kidnapping
325
00:17:45.970 --> 00:17:48.430
of a franchise owner's child during the finals.
326
00:17:49.900 --> 00:17:52.099
Alright, next one.
327
00:17:52.180 --> 00:17:57.720
Eruption, co-authored with Michael Crichton.
328
00:18:02.420 --> 00:18:02.740
True.
329
00:18:02.960 --> 00:18:07.440
I remember that. Oh, Bill. It is true.
330
00:18:08.839 --> 00:18:12.069
Now, it's a disaster film based on an unfinished manuscript.
331
00:18:12.150 --> 00:18:16.890
That's not the same thing. As game master, I say, wrong.
332
00:18:18.130 --> 00:18:18.750
The book is real.
333
00:18:18.849 --> 00:18:21.329
I was hoping that was going to be with Eddie
334
00:18:21.890 --> 00:18:26.099
Van Halen. That would have been a great book. That
335
00:18:26.130 --> 00:18:29.299
would have been a great audio book. Alright, next one.
336
00:18:30.420 --> 00:18:35.670
Hell's Kitchen, Deadly Order, co-authored by Gordon Ramsay. Real or fake?
337
00:18:35.890 --> 00:18:38.670
At this point, I don't feel I know anything, but
338
00:18:38.849 --> 00:18:42.579
I'll say false. Everyone say fake. You are all correct.
339
00:18:42.599 --> 00:18:44.420
That one is fake, but it would go something like this.
340
00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:49.200
A fiery celebrity chef discovers a high-profile dining guest poisoned
341
00:18:49.259 --> 00:18:51.910
at table one, thrusting the kitchen staff into a high-stakes
342
00:18:51.970 --> 00:18:52.549
murder investigation.
343
00:18:54.470 --> 00:18:57.859
Terrible book idea. No one wants to know but hear
344
00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:02.759
about murders in restaurants. All right. The President's Daughter co-authored
345
00:19:02.779 --> 00:19:05.960
with Bill Clinton. True. I figured you would all get
346
00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:06.500
that one.
347
00:19:06.900 --> 00:19:10.470
And it's unlikely that I, interrupt, wrote a single word.
348
00:19:10.490 --> 00:19:13.789
Yeah. I'll think either one of them wrote a single
349
00:19:13.849 --> 00:19:17.410
word about one. Show of hands, how many people read it?
350
00:19:18.190 --> 00:19:18.910
Okay.
351
00:19:19.130 --> 00:19:21.529
Oh, there we go. Over or under on the amount
352
00:19:21.549 --> 00:19:22.849
of ghost writers on that book.
353
00:19:22.950 --> 00:19:24.089
I'm going to say five.
354
00:19:24.130 --> 00:19:24.450
All right.
355
00:19:25.029 --> 00:19:25.950
That one is true.
356
00:19:25.970 --> 00:19:30.930
It is one of two books he wrote. He wrote
357
00:19:31.180 --> 00:19:32.799
with Bill Clinton. With Bill Clinton.
358
00:19:32.859 --> 00:19:33.460
There we go.
359
00:19:33.579 --> 00:19:34.160
All right.
360
00:19:34.220 --> 00:19:34.579
Next one.
361
00:19:34.980 --> 00:19:37.799
There's a lot of air quotes on that one. Deep Freedons,
362
00:19:37.859 --> 00:19:39.940
co-authored with David Balducci.
363
00:19:40.500 --> 00:19:42.160
Former writer, kind keynote.
364
00:19:42.180 --> 00:19:42.480
Yes.
365
00:19:42.509 --> 00:19:45.329
I don't know. I'm going to say true.
366
00:19:45.410 --> 00:19:45.670
True.
367
00:19:45.930 --> 00:19:50.720
We got some false. Alright, that one is not true.
368
00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:57.200
But it would go something like this. A former special forces.
369
00:19:57.180 --> 00:20:00.900
Operative turned lone wolf investigator uncovers a treasonous plot. Frozen
370
00:20:01.009 --> 00:20:03.049
inside an abandoned Arctic research outpost.
371
00:20:04.329 --> 00:20:04.509
Alright.
372
00:20:05.319 --> 00:20:06.279
These are good, Jesse.
373
00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:06.660
Thank you.
374
00:20:06.700 --> 00:20:09.240
All of these, they all sound very believable. Thank you.
375
00:20:09.380 --> 00:20:14.220
All right, book eight, The Lost Codex, co-authored with Dan Brown. False.
376
00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:18.089
Every father-in-law's dream book.
377
00:20:20.509 --> 00:20:26.930
That one is indeed false. A cryptographer and a homicide detective.
378
00:20:26.470 --> 00:20:28.690
Team up in Rome when a murdered cardinal leaves behind
379
00:20:28.750 --> 00:20:30.069
a cipher pointing.
380
00:20:29.829 --> 00:20:31.230
To a centuries-old conspiracy.
381
00:20:31.509 --> 00:20:36.390
So really, just a Dan Brown book.
382
00:20:39.890 --> 00:20:40.779
But can you imagine?
383
00:20:41.230 --> 00:20:44.960
Can you imagine a Dan Brown book that's just like
384
00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:45.720
200 pages long?
385
00:20:45.799 --> 00:20:49.059
That's what that would be. Alright, next one. Judge Stone,
386
00:20:49.299 --> 00:20:55.160
co-authored with Viola Davis. I think that might be real, actually.
387
00:20:55.619 --> 00:20:56.880
That one is real.
388
00:20:56.920 --> 00:20:58.960
It also came out this year, because James Patterson releases
389
00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:02.460
20 books a year. This also came out earlier this year.
390
00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:06.970
It is a respected Alabama circuit judge with her safety
391
00:21:07.009 --> 00:21:10.490
and career when she presides over the high-profile, explosive trial
392
00:21:10.769 --> 00:21:13.529
of a doctor charged with performing an illegal abortion.
393
00:21:15.089 --> 00:21:15.670
Jerkstone.
394
00:21:17.289 --> 00:21:21.519
All right, book 10, The Last Frontier, co-authored with Bear Grylls.
395
00:21:22.589 --> 00:21:28.730
Real or fake? Everyone knows who Bear Grylls is. All right, good.
396
00:21:29.309 --> 00:21:31.740
That's true. The audience needs to split and count 50-50.
397
00:21:31.869 --> 00:21:34.890
All right. Give me some more thumbs up. That one
398
00:21:35.109 --> 00:21:39.250
is false. You got us. You got us. A wilderness
399
00:21:39.269 --> 00:21:40.549
survival expert.
400
00:21:40.269 --> 00:21:42.950
And a drowned pilot race to stay alive in the
401
00:21:42.970 --> 00:21:45.700
Alaskan wild while fleeing armed mercenaries.
402
00:21:46.579 --> 00:21:50.519
So, all right. That's the end of my quiz. You
403
00:21:50.579 --> 00:21:51.720
all did great. Thank you.
404
00:21:51.740 --> 00:21:52.140
Did we?
405
00:21:53.980 --> 00:21:56.000
Listen, I'm going to read you a passing book just
406
00:21:56.019 --> 00:21:58.119
for fun now, and I will review it on our
407
00:21:58.160 --> 00:21:59.500
next WriterCon recording.
408
00:21:59.900 --> 00:22:02.420
So it'll take me five minutes to read. I'm a
409
00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:04.480
very fast reader, and I read a lot of books.
410
00:22:04.940 --> 00:22:06.759
Is it all those real books that came out in
411
00:22:06.779 --> 00:22:08.000
the last few months?
412
00:22:08.019 --> 00:22:10.160
Yeah, it was really hard to find ones that were
413
00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:11.720
older than four years old.
414
00:22:11.859 --> 00:22:13.960
I'm like, dude, slow down.
415
00:22:14.849 --> 00:22:17.509
Leave some for the rest of us. You will knock
416
00:22:17.569 --> 00:22:21.109
that out, though. You're used to Brandon Sanderson. Yeah, that's right.
417
00:22:21.150 --> 00:22:24.410
I'm reading Neil Stephenson's The Broke Cycle right now, which
418
00:22:24.490 --> 00:22:27.700
is three 1,200-page books.
419
00:22:27.660 --> 00:22:30.119
In a row. I'm in book three. Well, you'll be
420
00:22:30.180 --> 00:22:31.759
busy for a while. Oh, it's good stuff.
421
00:22:32.339 --> 00:22:32.599
All right.
422
00:22:33.380 --> 00:22:35.920
Well, thank you. That ends my portion of the podcast.
423
00:22:36.619 --> 00:22:42.339
Thank you, Jesse. Now, let's talk to William Martin, Danny.
424
00:22:41.980 --> 00:22:43.680
Petri, and Dan Martin.
425
00:22:53.009 --> 00:22:53.549
All right.
426
00:22:54.180 --> 00:22:58.329
Since two of you have been on the podcast, you
427
00:22:58.369 --> 00:23:00.470
know what I'm going to say. So just to be cruel,
428
00:23:00.509 --> 00:23:06.250
I'll start with you, Dani, since you don't. Traditional first question.
429
00:23:06.509 --> 00:23:09.609
If you could offer writers one piece of advice, what
430
00:23:09.630 --> 00:23:10.109
would it be?
431
00:23:10.690 --> 00:23:15.299
Perseverance. I think you study your craft, you write and
432
00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:18.339
write and write, and you do not quit no matter what,
433
00:23:18.420 --> 00:23:21.609
no matter how many rejections. You just need one person
434
00:23:21.650 --> 00:23:23.970
to say yes if you believe in it and that
435
00:23:24.009 --> 00:23:27.140
your stories are stories of your heart. You just keep
436
00:23:27.160 --> 00:23:27.779
going with them.
437
00:23:28.279 --> 00:23:30.500
Yeah, great. What about you, Dan?
438
00:23:31.779 --> 00:23:33.440
Well, I don't want to steal one of his because
439
00:23:33.460 --> 00:23:35.000
that's where most of my material comes from.
440
00:23:35.019 --> 00:23:37.819
So I'm going to pull something.
441
00:23:37.019 --> 00:23:41.420
From my talk this morning about writing for Interactive, which
442
00:23:41.700 --> 00:23:44.569
I didn't expect to be my answer today. But if
443
00:23:44.609 --> 00:23:46.930
you have an opportunity as a writer, you should avail
444
00:23:46.950 --> 00:23:51.730
yourself of your local acting class. Um, because actors look
445
00:23:51.849 --> 00:23:54.369
at scenes and characters in ways.
446
00:23:54.170 --> 00:23:55.309
That you don't as a writer.
447
00:23:55.829 --> 00:23:59.009
And if you start to see a, just a new
448
00:23:59.109 --> 00:24:03.019
angle in on how a character thinks by taking the
449
00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:05.140
approach of an actor, just even if, you know, as
450
00:24:05.180 --> 00:24:07.259
an exercise in your mind, you're going to find ways
451
00:24:07.299 --> 00:24:10.180
to make your scene stronger because gosh, darn it. They
452
00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:12.990
ask you some questions you don't want to answer sometimes, uh,
453
00:24:13.049 --> 00:24:15.650
when you're working with an actor. And, uh, if you can,
454
00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:18.240
Think ahead of the time and have a better answer.
455
00:24:18.269 --> 00:24:20.450
It'll be easier on the day on set and the
456
00:24:20.650 --> 00:24:21.369
scene will be better.
457
00:24:21.730 --> 00:24:22.509
That makes sense.
458
00:24:23.049 --> 00:24:24.109
Bill, what about you?
459
00:24:24.289 --> 00:24:25.630
Well, I'll play off of that.
460
00:24:27.509 --> 00:24:34.730
One of my early mentors was a famous Hollywood script doctor.
461
00:24:34.769 --> 00:24:41.160
His name was Robert Tom. And he wrote for a
462
00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:45.109
lot of... Directors in the 50s like Robert Aldrich didn't
463
00:24:45.150 --> 00:24:47.329
have screen credits on a lot of movies but wrote
464
00:24:47.349 --> 00:24:50.650
a movie about Leopold and Loeb called Compulsion, which you
465
00:24:50.690 --> 00:24:54.430
might have seen. Wrote a lot of movies about movies
466
00:24:54.490 --> 00:24:58.789
for Roger Corman. More on him later in the afternoon.
467
00:24:58.809 --> 00:25:05.809
And he once said to us, you should all be happy.
468
00:25:06.329 --> 00:25:09.250
This was a writing class at USC Film School. You
469
00:25:09.289 --> 00:25:13.160
should all be happy that you're writers. because you've always
470
00:25:13.200 -->
00:25:18.099
got something to do. If you're an actor, if you're
471
00:25:18.140 --> 00:25:21.269
not working, you don't know who the hell you are.
472
00:25:22.410 --> 00:25:28.809
And when you sit down as a writer, remember that
473
00:25:29.869 --> 00:25:36.859
you have an opportunity to go into hundreds of heads,
474
00:25:36.970 --> 00:25:41.440
hundreds of sets of consciousnesses in order to understand people.
475
00:25:41.779 --> 00:25:44.579
you have a, you've been given a great gift and
476
00:25:44.660 --> 00:25:50.150
a great opportunity. And while it might be, uh, tiresome and,
477
00:25:50.650 --> 00:25:54.410
and tiring and frustrating and all of the things that
478
00:25:54.450 --> 00:25:59.509
Danny has just said, don't quit because it beats real work.
479
00:26:01.670 --> 00:26:04.009
So, well, that leads to the next thing I was
480
00:26:04.069 --> 00:26:05.609
going to ask you, Bill, when did you know you
481
00:26:05.630 --> 00:26:06.529
wanted to be a writer?
482
00:26:08.089 --> 00:26:14.599
Um, when, uh, when I realized that that was going
483
00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:16.839
to be the easiest way for me to become a
484
00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:21.309
movie director. I never became the movie director, but I
485
00:26:21.349 --> 00:26:26.470
became the writer. I wrote screenplays. And all of this
486
00:26:26.630 --> 00:26:30.309
had been born back when I was a kid wanting to,
487
00:26:30.890 --> 00:26:34.150
I was in love with the movies. And at some
488
00:26:34.210 --> 00:26:37.779
point in my development, and I think it was probably
489
00:26:38.059 --> 00:26:41.470
just after the curtain opened on the movie How the
490
00:26:41.509 --> 00:26:45.750
West Was Won in Cinerama in March of 1963. Not
491
00:26:46.269 --> 00:26:51.210
that I'm planning to write an autobiography or anything. In
492
00:26:51.299 --> 00:26:56.599
March of 1963, and before James Stewart had left the
493
00:26:56.660 --> 00:26:59.299
screen in the first five minutes of that movie, I said,
494
00:26:59.900 --> 00:27:01.319
I know what I want to do with the rest
495
00:27:01.359 --> 00:27:07.940
of my life. And that movie is a big multi-generational saga,
496
00:27:08.259 --> 00:27:13.589
and years later, I wrote A lot of big multigenerational sagas.
497
00:27:14.930 --> 00:27:20.130
And so the process was, I guess, inspired by my
498
00:27:20.190 --> 00:27:26.500
love of storytelling. And it was crystallized by those movies
499
00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:28.200
of the early 60s.
500
00:27:28.279 --> 00:27:30.880
A lot of them are pretty good. They still last.
501
00:27:31.240 --> 00:27:33.160
Dan, how about you? Of course, you grew up with
502
00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:35.339
this guy probably typing all the time.
503
00:27:35.359 --> 00:27:38.329
Yeah. Yeah, so I knew that it was a career.
504
00:27:38.849 --> 00:27:42.349
I probably had the wrong idea of what kind of
505
00:27:42.430 --> 00:27:45.839
career opportunities it presented because it was a bit skewed
506
00:27:45.930 --> 00:27:48.960
with the New York Times best-selling list and whatnot hanging
507
00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:51.779
up in the house. For me, history does repeat a
508
00:27:51.819 --> 00:27:54.220
bit in that it was USC, but for me, it
509
00:27:54.259 --> 00:27:58.220
was that I found I didn't like trying to secure
510
00:27:58.259 --> 00:28:00.599
locations on a student film with no budget, and I
511
00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:03.690
didn't like waking up at 4.30 in the to go
512
00:28:04.069 --> 00:28:09.269
to God knows where to work on a location shoot,
513
00:28:09.390 --> 00:28:12.750
and I didn't like using a portalette. So I figured
514
00:28:12.930 --> 00:28:16.650
I wanted to work at home. Been doing it since
515
00:28:16.670 --> 00:28:17.240
before it was.
516
00:28:17.210 --> 00:28:21.839
Cool, as has he. And that was really where it was.
517
00:28:21.880 --> 00:28:23.920
And also I think it's just sort of that's where
518
00:28:24.519 --> 00:28:27.000
you get to write the first pass of the movie.
519
00:28:27.019 --> 00:28:29.339
The movie gets written three times, when you write it,
520
00:28:29.619 --> 00:28:32.509
when you shoot it, and when you edit it. And
521
00:28:32.750 --> 00:28:34.559
why not be at the start of the process?
522
00:28:35.259 --> 00:28:37.920
You forgot to mention the part where all of the
523
00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:41.220
kids were marched up the stairs every Sunday to my
524
00:28:41.339 --> 00:28:44.640
office with candles to bow and genuflect before.
525
00:28:48.190 --> 00:28:50.029
Yeah, I would have wanted to hear that story.
526
00:28:50.049 --> 00:28:52.509
And that's why he paints pictures with his words.
527
00:28:54.509 --> 00:28:57.319
Danny, how about you? Have you always wanted to write?
528
00:28:57.339 --> 00:29:01.180
I got Murder on the Orient Express when I was
529
00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:05.339
eight for my birthday. And I loved putting the puzzle
530
00:29:05.359 --> 00:29:09.519
pieces together. And I've loved doing that ever since. Knew
531
00:29:09.579 --> 00:29:10.440
it from that age.
532
00:29:11.109 --> 00:29:13.329
You know, I love puzzles too. And I think that's
533
00:29:13.450 --> 00:29:16.130
part of it, particularly if you're writing crime fiction or
534
00:29:16.289 --> 00:29:19.329
this is like a big, Puzzle you're putting together.
535
00:29:19.390 --> 00:29:19.890
It is, yep.
536
00:29:20.539 --> 00:29:23.240
Okay, now we're going to have a tougher, more controversial
537
00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:26.880
question because you've all written many things. Do you have
538
00:29:26.920 --> 00:29:30.240
a favorite? Dani, you mind starting?
539
00:29:30.339 --> 00:29:32.019
Favorite book or favorite genre?
540
00:29:32.369 --> 00:29:32.619
Book.
541
00:29:33.049 --> 00:29:33.930
Book, okay.
542
00:29:34.410 --> 00:29:38.849
I would say my favorite book was the one that
543
00:29:38.910 --> 00:29:42.680
came out last, called Two Seconds Too Late. I have
544
00:29:42.799 --> 00:29:46.000
one coming out on the 15th of September that's.
545
00:29:45.859 --> 00:29:46.740
A follow-up to it.
546
00:29:46.869 --> 00:29:50.750
But Two Seconds Too Late was a thriller, but there
547
00:29:50.789 --> 00:29:54.829
were a lot of deeper issues within it in the protagonist.
548
00:29:55.250 --> 00:29:58.349
And I just really loved writing that book.
549
00:29:58.589 --> 00:29:58.789
Yeah?
550
00:29:59.210 --> 00:30:01.829
Yep. Dan, how about you? Do you have a favorite thing?
551
00:30:02.750 --> 00:30:05.730
Well, Tom Brady usually says my favorite ring is the
552
00:30:05.769 --> 00:30:07.750
next one. And I'm very excited about what I'm working
553
00:30:07.789 --> 00:30:09.589
on right now. But I'd have to go with my
554
00:30:09.630 --> 00:30:12.210
last one for now, which is Star Trek Resurgence.
555
00:30:12.549 --> 00:30:13.210
I played that.
556
00:30:14.589 --> 00:30:16.930
I loved Star Trek going into it.
557
00:30:17.849 --> 00:30:20.059
It was a passion project that I got paid for,
558
00:30:20.099 --> 00:30:21.519
which is pretty unreal.
559
00:30:21.539 --> 00:30:22.019
That's good.
560
00:30:22.259 --> 00:30:24.559
And I was happy with how it came out, which
561
00:30:24.640 --> 00:30:27.680
isn't always the case when you're working on a group
562
00:30:27.720 --> 00:30:29.119
project the way that video games are.
563
00:30:30.670 --> 00:30:33.519
And Bill, how about you? Of all those bestsellers, do
564
00:30:33.539 --> 00:30:34.259
you have a favorite?
565
00:30:36.420 --> 00:30:40.920
Well, the next one is always the favorite because you
566
00:30:40.940 --> 00:30:43.859
need to muster the energy, that positive energy I was
567
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:47.720
mentioning a little while ago. But when I ask myself
568
00:30:47.799 --> 00:30:51.609
which of my books got me as close as I
569
00:30:51.690 --> 00:30:56.150
wanted to get to a particular objective as a storyteller,
570
00:30:57.150 --> 00:31:01.619
it's usually... the book that I.
571
00:31:01.619 --> 00:31:04.460
Would carry with me to the pearly gates. So that
572
00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:06.319
when St. Peter says, what have you been doing all
573
00:31:06.339 --> 00:31:08.180
your life? I said, well, I wrote this.
574
00:31:10.539 --> 00:31:14.660
It would be Citizen Washington, biographical novel about George Washington,
575
00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:19.319
which managed for me to bring me as close to
576
00:31:20.019 --> 00:31:25.259
my objectives as I could hope to get. But occasionally,
577
00:31:25.799 --> 00:31:29.670
And I've done this in preparation for my master class
578
00:31:29.730 --> 00:31:34.730
tomorrow here. I occasionally read things that I have written
579
00:31:34.769 --> 00:31:39.759
in the past, and I come away thinking, not bad.
580
00:31:39.779 --> 00:31:42.599
That's a nice feeling.
581
00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:45.829
So as long as I can have that feeling, I'm happy.
582
00:31:46.369 --> 00:31:48.349
I remember one time my car broke down and I
583
00:31:48.369 --> 00:31:50.099
was stuck on the side of the road and I
584
00:31:50.130 --> 00:31:52.500
didn't have anything to read except a box of my
585
00:31:52.539 --> 00:31:55.599
own books in the trunk. And so I sat there
586
00:31:55.680 --> 00:31:58.119
and read my ending. I thought, oh, that's not bad.
587
00:31:58.160 --> 00:31:59.900
I'm getting a little misty-eyed here.
588
00:32:00.700 --> 00:32:01.279
I forgot.
589
00:32:02.099 --> 00:32:04.799
All right, now I have some weird, what I think
590
00:32:04.900 --> 00:32:09.630
of as Jesse-esque questions. And you've each got a different one,
591
00:32:09.750 --> 00:32:12.710
so there's no point worrying about it in advance. But Bill,
592
00:32:13.490 --> 00:32:18.210
for you. If you could steal something from any library
593
00:32:18.450 --> 00:32:22.210
or museum in the world, what would it be?
594
00:32:24.619 --> 00:32:31.799
It would be the first book ever printed in America,
595
00:32:33.099 --> 00:32:37.890
the Bay Psalm book, because in my next book, I'm
596
00:32:37.950 --> 00:32:40.009
going to steal the Bay Psalm book.
597
00:32:42.150 --> 00:32:45.349
So it'd be nice to have one. Yeah. Dan, how
598
00:32:45.369 --> 00:32:46.109
about a different question?
599
00:32:46.230 --> 00:32:48.289
That was a good setup, Bill, by the way.
600
00:32:49.269 --> 00:32:53.809
Dan, if you could change any book or game ever written,
601
00:32:54.549 --> 00:32:55.890
what would it be? How would you change it?
602
00:32:55.890 --> 00:33:03.279
I'm going to go with a movie. Okay.
603
00:33:03.599 --> 00:33:07.559
And I would cut 15 minutes out of Die Hard 2.
604
00:33:07.559 --> 00:33:11.759
And there are two characters I'd combine. And it would
605
00:33:11.839 --> 00:33:15.079
be It would get halfway there to the first Die
606
00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:17.059
Hard if you just cut a little bit of time
607
00:33:17.119 --> 00:33:20.559
out of it and combine two characters, and that's the difference.
608
00:33:20.779 --> 00:33:23.420
Isn't that interesting? But I think that kind of micro-editing
609
00:33:23.480 --> 00:33:25.559
really does make a huge difference to movies.
610
00:33:26.109 --> 00:33:29.710
That's how sharp the margins can be when you're trying
611
00:33:29.730 --> 00:33:31.069
to create something that's going to have an impact.
612
00:33:31.289 --> 00:33:33.529
Yeah, it makes a big difference to books, actually, too.
613
00:33:33.950 --> 00:33:35.089
That's what I was thinking.
614
00:33:35.390 --> 00:33:38.630
Yeah, I can cut, what, 30,000 words out of my
615
00:33:39.630 --> 00:33:42.269
last book, which was painful, but you know what? It's
616
00:33:42.289 --> 00:33:46.269
a lot better now, so that was good. Danny. Yes.
617
00:33:47.430 --> 00:33:50.390
If you, what writer would you most like to sit
618
00:33:50.430 --> 00:33:53.369
down and have dinner with? And that could be living
619
00:33:53.549 --> 00:33:54.990
or dead, so.
620
00:33:55.009 --> 00:33:55.869
Okay, this might be.
621
00:33:55.869 --> 00:33:56.930
Including none of us.
622
00:33:57.279 --> 00:33:59.150
Yes, including no one on this panel.
623
00:33:59.170 --> 00:34:04.119
I was gonna say, now, okay, I am, ironically enough,
624
00:34:04.400 --> 00:34:07.180
a classics fanatic, so I would love to sit down
625
00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:10.760
with Jane Austen. I felt she was like before her
626
00:34:10.820 --> 00:34:13.909
time and I loved her wit. I just thought it
627
00:34:14.030 --> 00:34:16.690
was fascinating. So I would love to sit down and
628
00:34:16.730 --> 00:34:19.250
just chat with her with what life was at that
629
00:34:19.329 --> 00:34:21.889
time and how she was able to write those books
630
00:34:21.989 --> 00:34:22.510
back then.
631
00:34:23.050 --> 00:34:25.369
You know, I asked Lou Burney the same question on
632
00:34:25.389 --> 00:34:27.280
the podcast a few weeks ago and he said the
633
00:34:27.340 --> 00:34:33.280
same thing. So the Janeites are still with us. All right.
634
00:34:33.420 --> 00:34:36.599
One last question for each of you. What's coming next?
635
00:34:36.800 --> 00:34:40.889
What should we look for from you in the future? Bill,
636
00:34:40.909 --> 00:34:41.670
you wanna go first?
637
00:34:43.190 --> 00:34:46.650
A book about the Bay Somme book that is stolen
638
00:34:46.710 --> 00:34:48.050
in a rather dramatic way.
639
00:34:48.170 --> 00:34:49.369
Oh, I've heard about that.
640
00:34:49.409 --> 00:34:51.070
Yeah, and it leads.
641
00:34:50.989 --> 00:34:55.800
Us into a novel that brings my main character, Peter Fallon,
642
00:34:56.260 --> 00:35:03.480
who appeared first in 1980 in Back Bay, a book
643
00:35:03.519 --> 00:35:08.360
about the history of Boston. who appears in what will be,
644
00:35:08.420 --> 00:35:12.909
I think, his eighth adventure, which will be his return
645
00:35:12.949 --> 00:35:13.590
to Boston.
646
00:35:13.639 --> 00:35:14.690
He's been all over the world.
647
00:35:14.710 --> 00:35:15.570
Nice, full circle.
648
00:35:15.650 --> 00:35:16.309
Right, right.
649
00:35:17.889 --> 00:35:22.789
And for the last 25 years or so, since he's
650
00:35:22.849 --> 00:35:29.429
been appearing in subsequent novels since Back Bay, he has.
651
00:35:29.510 --> 00:35:33.469
Managed to maintain... an age that is.
652
00:35:33.469 --> 00:35:37.429
About 10 or 15 years younger than I am. And
653
00:35:37.449 --> 00:35:39.530
in this one, he'll probably have to be about 20
654
00:35:39.530 --> 00:35:43.150
years younger than I am because he still has to
655
00:35:43.190 --> 00:35:46.230
fight hand to hand on occasion. And I gave that
656
00:35:46.289 --> 00:35:47.510
up a long time ago.
657
00:35:47.809 --> 00:35:49.389
He's not aging in real time.
658
00:35:50.260 --> 00:35:51.579
Right. Exactly.
659
00:35:52.659 --> 00:35:53.980
Okay, Dan, how about you?
660
00:35:55.469 --> 00:35:58.809
I'm working on a game for Sony Interactive Entertainment and
661
00:35:58.869 --> 00:36:03.170
PlayStation that I'm really excited about. It is a great team,
662
00:36:03.650 --> 00:36:06.500
and it is kind of the video game equivalent of
663
00:36:06.559 --> 00:36:08.679
working on a blockbuster movie.
664
00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:11.960
So it's a lot of fun. It's a lot of work.
665
00:36:12.199 --> 00:36:14.840
It's a lot of time, so it's a ways off.
666
00:36:15.019 --> 00:36:17.820
But I really look forward to coming back on the
667
00:36:17.860 --> 00:36:20.489
podcast when it's announced or released.
668
00:36:20.510 --> 00:36:21.690
We can make that happen.
669
00:36:22.130 --> 00:36:25.090
And you get to experience it for yourself. I'd love that.
670
00:36:25.369 --> 00:36:26.329
Dani, how about you?
671
00:36:26.849 --> 00:36:30.030
So the book I mentioned, Three Steps Behind, is coming
672
00:36:30.090 --> 00:36:37.380
out September 15th, and it features a forensic biologist and
673
00:36:37.780 --> 00:36:41.320
a private investigator with a crime that appears very simple,
674
00:36:41.440 --> 00:36:44.380
but we all know they are far more complex. And
675
00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:47.340
then I have a new series coming out with HarperCollins
676
00:36:48.159 --> 00:36:51.250
that will start next year called The Locke Chronicles, and
677
00:36:51.269 --> 00:36:54.150
they're far more thriller-based, which I'm really excited to kind
678
00:36:54.170 --> 00:36:55.050
of make that shift.
679
00:36:55.550 --> 00:37:00.190
Cool. I know you brought copies, advance copies of Three
680
00:37:00.230 --> 00:37:02.400
Steps Behind, and they sold like that.
681
00:37:02.420 --> 00:37:03.159
That's awesome.
682
00:37:03.380 --> 00:37:06.440
Brought them to RyderCon, where all the good stuff happens. Right.
683
00:37:06.500 --> 00:37:09.710
I should point out. Thank you guys all very much.
684
00:37:09.989 --> 00:37:13.639
Just a few parting words. No point in really talking
685
00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:16.760
about the next WriterCon conference. It's a year away, but
686
00:37:16.900 --> 00:37:20.190
that's September 3rd through 6th, by the way, Labor Day
687
00:37:20.250 --> 00:37:24.469
weekend 2027. Let me also remind you that WriterCon has
688
00:37:24.530 --> 00:37:27.489
its own newsletter, and you don't want to miss an issue,
689
00:37:27.630 --> 00:37:32.329
especially since it's free and covers breaking issues like AI
690
00:37:32.650 --> 00:37:36.150
and other similar things and audio books and so much more.
691
00:37:36.210 --> 00:37:40.980
Just go to Substack, search for WriterCon.com, and it's totally free.
692
00:37:41.039 --> 00:37:41.500
Sign up.
693
00:37:41.739 --> 00:37:44.820
For that matter, if you haven't joined the WriterCon Facebook group,
694
00:37:45.340 --> 00:37:48.400
do it now. What you got to lose? That's where
695
00:37:48.420 --> 00:37:51.440
you get like day-to-day updates on what's going on in
696
00:37:51.460 --> 00:37:54.619
the writing world. And we would love to have you,
697
00:37:54.940 --> 00:37:56.679
and we'll put a link in the show notes.
698
00:37:57.139 --> 00:37:57.510
Okay?
699
00:37:58.329 --> 00:38:02.150
And if you're enjoying this podcast, of course, please subscribe, rate, review,
700
00:38:02.920 --> 00:38:06.449
Wherever you get podcasts, it actually does help and make
701
00:38:06.489 --> 00:38:10.050
this podcast easier for other writers like you to find,
702
00:38:10.070 --> 00:38:14.030
all right? Until next time, you know what I'm going
703
00:38:14.050 --> 00:38:19.309
to say. Keep writing. And remember, you cannot fail if
704
00:38:19.349 --> 00:38:22.090
you refuse to quit. See you next time.