TRANSKRİPT 🔗
WEBVTT
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.400
Yalla?
00:00:00.800 --> 00:00:01.120
Yalla.
00:00:16.960 --> 00:00:34.240
Wara kill mi nashha, fiem handis, beshuf is yagairo ma bishufa, wudafna lyom, ha wahat abbraz lasme yal jamait bened albar mäjye, waro yal kiyadi, fi akbar share kitanibil manta, eja sharikna tajp tulafa wiye, wo we ea ye, baidan anarasmi yet.
00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:37.439
Munrahebil VP of engineering lazid, states Hosamin Marzuk.
00:00:37.520 --> 00:00:38.159
Yeah wah.
00:00:38.399 --> 00:00:43.039
Nahna pleasure ktier and we looking forward an amazing uh episode.
00:00:43.280 --> 00:00:43.840
Inshallah.
00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:53.920
Al Abul Mabalish Bus Maul ka VP of Engineering, Adiat Lishray to Heke, Mafishi, wireless mics, be capacity, be uh capability ali.
00:00:54.560 --> 00:01:06.400
Shef any uh I haven't worked in audio specifically, but say any uh to that note my career back in 2014 um as a full stack engineer.
00:01:06.640 --> 00:01:15.519
When I quote full stack engineer, it's not that uh the the common sense uh common any conception of uh full stack engineer where you do back end and front end.
00:01:15.680 --> 00:01:30.480
Uh I was working for uh software RD house, not software, an RD house, uh and we were doing uh all sorts of software and hardware at the same time.
00:01:31.519 --> 00:01:39.040
One of our clients can uh Yatuk uh Yatuk and Arabic coffee maker, gaha Swediyya at the time.
00:01:45.439 --> 00:01:49.599
So we automatic coffee maker, Lil Gahwal Swadiya.
00:01:50.159 --> 00:02:05.840
Uh we were designing chips, sending it to China for fabrication, chips, and then we we flashed hardware uh software are uh we were doing that and a few other products and I worked on hardware.
00:02:06.400 --> 00:02:13.840
Uh Bessi and I learned I did the hardware, software, and then back uh back end well front end.
00:02:14.080 --> 00:02:19.840
And I learned that I really hate software hardware and I don't want to do hardware ever again.
00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:24.080
Uh any especially that debugging hardware is uh any hell.
00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:25.039
It's a hassle.
00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:33.039
Yeah, and you you you you start by checking the chip is actually working and your soldering is correct.
00:02:34.159 --> 00:02:38.159
And then you check the software, and then turns out the software has a bug.
00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:40.240
You fix the bug, but still it's not working.
00:02:40.560 --> 00:02:44.000
You go back, turns out your soldering is is is is incorrect.
00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:46.719
And then um no, I'm good.
00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:54.080
Yeah, we'll skip it like in time, VP of Engineering visit.
00:02:54.479 --> 00:03:01.599
Okay, um, so I started Gabal uh Tabelur, I started uh learning to develop uh mobile apps.
00:03:01.840 --> 00:03:07.680
But it be iOS uh at the time can programming language I was objective-c.
00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:20.479
If I started to learn program uh objective-c programming, uh that gave me the opportunity to meet the founder uh Tabelwur Zadbakari who he he was like, okay, I'll work with us.
00:03:20.800 --> 00:03:24.560
Um and I did nothing related to mobile there.
00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:29.120
Uh I don't know why he was so interested, but was a starting point.
00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:31.039
A chef potential, obviously.
00:03:33.919 --> 00:03:52.479
And then um uh there was any a roller coaster of things that I did, and he at the same time uh I started uh uh a uh um a cloud services, cloud automation company, uh Kansas Mahamad Cloud.
00:03:52.639 --> 00:03:56.879
And um at the time can't be Bernamage akoumisma Bernamage Badly Hadden.
00:03:57.599 --> 00:04:02.960
It was a business incubator, uh disease.
00:04:05.599 --> 00:04:07.599
Uh we were incubated there.
00:04:07.759 --> 00:04:13.120
Um what we were doing is uh offering remote development environment developers.
00:04:13.360 --> 00:04:13.520
Okay.
00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:16.800
Uh Alfa Sotash.
00:04:16.959 --> 00:04:28.560
Um and it was still early days, it was uh still early days, and who would invest, let alone usel products, invest in a uh cloud automation product.
00:04:28.800 --> 00:04:34.560
Um, and that was part of the difficulty that we went through for startup funding.
00:04:34.959 --> 00:04:35.519
Funding.
00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:42.319
Um and okay, Al Hain, we have the product, how would we convince people to use it?
00:04:42.639 --> 00:04:52.959
Um we had this two-fold problem and uh investors are not so mature to uh uh to get the product, so they're not gonna invest unless there are customers.
00:04:53.199 --> 00:05:06.480
If we customers, uh I need custom I need to convince them to use it who they think in uh at some really soon at some point I'll go bankrupt and they will not have uh their development environments available.
00:05:08.959 --> 00:05:10.240
It went back and forth.
00:05:10.319 --> 00:05:17.839
Uh I think by mid uh 2016 uh we got an offer in Murni uh to get acquired.
00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:20.399
So we were acquired by Murni and then we joined Murni.
00:05:20.560 --> 00:05:42.800
Uh Murni, for those who don't know what Murni is, um Murni Bidet uh as uh khidmet um if you heard of AAA in the US um Tifta Hatbir, if you any if you could always ask for any service on tires, uh if it's siar and so on.
00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:51.439
Uh and over time and they grew to a portfolio of products that anything has to do with the word car and home.
00:06:14.959 --> 00:06:16.160
They sell it four parts.
00:06:16.319 --> 00:06:17.439
Uh and everything in between.
00:06:17.519 --> 00:06:28.800
They work with Masher Kata'min uh uh umala, they salhona, but they have all of this portfolio.
00:06:29.360 --> 00:06:31.360
This is recent, uh, where they got to this.
00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:34.000
Uh I was there early days, yeah.
00:06:34.240 --> 00:06:37.680
I was considered uh founding uh engineers at uh at Murni.
00:06:38.079 --> 00:06:51.759
Uh at the time when I joined,
Load full transcript
there was um uh the app was built externally outsourced, yeah, but uh CTO was responsible for backend.
00:06:52.240 --> 00:07:05.519
My mandate was simple come fix the the situation with mobile apps, meaning hire an in-house development team and develop rewrite the apps, uh, and then uh you're free to go.
00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:06.720
Good deal.
00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:07.839
Very good deal.
00:07:08.240 --> 00:07:16.800
Yeah, uh it was in this way hectic because we want we I I needed to hire because I had six months before the end of the contract with the outsourcing.
00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:19.839
Very limited time, yes, to write the new apps.
00:07:20.079 --> 00:07:35.360
Uh we were both writing code and hiring at the same time, and I was uh interviews with uh after interviews with the um with the CTO, uh trying to find the perfect TNE fit for what we wanted.
00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:40.959
Uh and surprisingly, can Assal Nanal get Hadistul allaw us then uh hadith al Android.
00:07:41.199 --> 00:07:41.519
Oof.
00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:42.480
Yeah.
00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:50.560
Uh and uh I at the time I wrote the majority, oh very big portion of the Android app.
00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:53.519
And uh I'm not proud of what I did.
00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:59.199
We we uh we got it there, we released it, but there's a bug, but a lot of bugs.
00:07:59.439 --> 00:08:09.360
Um and feel industry Limorni can uh most of the providers, and you're talking about 2016 iPhones were still expensive, Android phones were cheaper.
00:08:09.759 --> 00:08:16.800
Uh yeah, but you can find uh uh Galaxy Fold for uh Alpha 2 or something like that.
00:08:16.959 --> 00:08:27.120
But um the scannel challenge in uh uh Android the cheap Android phone phones were really cheap, yeah, very bad hardware.
00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:34.320
Uh majority of the providers that we needed uh to track all the time were using cheap Android phones.
00:08:34.960 --> 00:08:38.480
We needed to really optimize the Android app, uh provider app.
00:08:38.559 --> 00:08:44.399
We had four apps, two provider and two customer, uh one uh uh two for each platform.
00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:54.080
Uh but we needed to really optimize and tune that app so that it doesn't uh upuse battery and uh to actually get us accurate locations.
00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:58.960
Then uh uh when we track the trips, you can see we we used to call them helicopter trips.
00:08:59.120 --> 00:09:04.960
Then uh like what how is this a trip?
00:09:05.279 --> 00:09:08.559
Uh it was a really cool experience.
00:09:08.639 --> 00:09:11.679
Yes, I was there full time for seven months.
00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:26.159
Uh the amount of things I had I got to see, dealing with people, especially uh they're different kinds of customers, they're not uh tech literate, they designing the UIs.
00:09:26.320 --> 00:09:29.279
We had to big like big buttons with very bright colours.
00:09:33.440 --> 00:09:35.360
Very big red button, yes.
00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:39.120
Uh it was a different experience.
00:09:40.159 --> 00:09:43.200
The time uh back then, yeah, it was it was still early days, man.
00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:45.519
Um pre-COVID, yeah.
00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:53.679
I mean pre-COVID, uh any post-COVID, yes, a lot of people got to to use uh online services more.
00:09:53.840 --> 00:09:59.279
But pre-COVID, 2016, very early days of the transformation guide service.
00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:00.559
It's very different.
00:10:00.639 --> 00:10:13.679
So I I I always applaud uh uh applaud the um uh Salman for what he did, ma'am or uh yeah, seven months uh I moved to a few other things and then okay.
00:10:13.759 --> 00:10:14.960
How did you get to Zid?
00:10:15.279 --> 00:10:17.919
2018, uh June 2018.
00:10:18.559 --> 00:10:20.559
I knew Mazen long before that.
00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:22.720
Uh best for 2018.
00:10:22.799 --> 00:10:38.879
Can uh um what Mazen was asking for was uh you have a lot of good experience with platforms and holding platforms stable, and Zid is at a stage where we have problems with traffic spikes and uh deployments.
00:10:38.960 --> 00:10:41.519
When we deploy something, the platform goes down.
00:10:41.759 --> 00:10:46.639
When uh a merchant does uh a big campaign, the platform goes down.
00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:52.639
Uh today we're uh he said that today we're at an F, gets us uh get us to S.
00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:53.039
Okay.
00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:53.919
And then you're good to go.
00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:59.279
Lena I was like, I'm not sure if I want to work here or we're still in that dude.
00:10:59.679 --> 00:11:01.120
So he was like, halas.
00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:04.000
Uh fix this and then you're good to go.
00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:08.879
Uh and you see how I I negotiated with partners on the very small scopes.
00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:13.519
Uh but yeah, um, I joined the team.
00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:19.120
Um I worked with on that, migrated the platform to AWS, containerized the platform.
00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:22.399
Uh I was a tech lead.
00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:26.960
Um and we have a distinction between tech lead and a team lead.
00:11:27.039 --> 00:11:29.919
I was not leading anyone, I was leading the project itself.
00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:36.159
Um so my role was just to fix these issues.
00:11:36.399 --> 00:11:38.559
Uh I was the OG DevOps guy.
00:11:38.720 --> 00:11:38.879
Okay.
00:11:39.440 --> 00:11:51.440
Um that took about five or six months, and then in June, uh sorry, in December, uh we renegotiated.
00:11:53.200 --> 00:11:54.480
And then here we are.
00:11:54.799 --> 00:11:55.519
Congratulations.
00:11:55.759 --> 00:11:56.399
Thank you.
00:11:56.639 --> 00:12:02.000
Uh I am today leading all of the engineering team plus IT support and security.
00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:04.559
What does Z do?
00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:05.440
Okay.
00:12:05.679 --> 00:12:06.879
In simple terms.
00:12:09.919 --> 00:12:11.519
Okay, simple terms.
00:12:11.679 --> 00:12:24.000
Um
and Hada Shna Daimon and Modafin, Walla Numu Le Tujar.
00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:33.759
Uh Mahal offline, online, or this is a new distribution channel, that's it.
00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:36.720
That's nowhere near what we're thinking of in the Lamangul.
00:12:42.799 --> 00:12:50.879
Fashion, uh uh retail industry.
00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:54.720
They would benefit from different kinds of channels that they would be in.
00:12:54.879 --> 00:12:55.039
Okay.
00:12:56.720 --> 00:12:57.200
Fashion.
00:12:57.360 --> 00:12:59.039
And to fit online, bidata online.
00:12:59.200 --> 00:13:02.879
Like in your business really benefit from having a physical branch with pop-ups.
00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:04.720
We help you build POS.
00:13:04.960 --> 00:13:05.200
Okay.
00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:09.679
And then um so it's across the full uh scope.
00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:13.519
But that's why we introduce channels.
00:13:13.600 --> 00:13:19.120
So you can sell marketplaces, our own marketplace, Amazon, Trendiol, Jahez.
00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:23.679
Uh wherever we can allow our merchants to sell, we want them to sell.
00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:34.159
And in a guide, we say that okay, and your product is this kind, it's seasonal, it's uh uh niche, it's whatever, this these marketplaces that fit you.
00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:34.799
You don't have to be.
00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:36.720
You consult as well, yeah.
00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:38.080
Yes, yes.
00:13:38.240 --> 00:13:45.279
Uh but this is what made people uh closer to Z because we do consult and we do care.
00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:48.559
Uh we don't give them the technology and tell them okay, use it.
00:13:48.799 --> 00:13:51.360
Um we want them to actually grow.
00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:55.919
Um and it's a core value growth.
00:13:59.919 --> 00:14:15.039
Do you think retailers uh they push a decision based on uh bad habits or bad uh consequences and let's say a physical store in a physical store he doesn't have very good marketing.
00:14:15.440 --> 00:14:19.120
Obviously, he wants to expand, he wants a big exposure, let's say.
00:14:19.279 --> 00:14:22.399
He can't have it be a certain geographical location.
00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:24.720
Do you think Haida will directly push him?
00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:31.519
I'll be fakir akar negative label costs, and I saturate, I move, I expand.
00:14:31.919 --> 00:15:00.480
Obviously, it would be uh, tajern, online businesses um after offline uh online channel efficient fill operation how organization is not ready uh uh to be online.
00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:03.519
What the idea for retail is fulfillment.
00:15:03.679 --> 00:15:04.960
How do you fulfill orders?
00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:18.080
Uh if you're just gonna use uh as is and pick up uh items in the shelves and then that's not a um uh fee challenges.
00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:21.840
Um they have to streamline the process.
00:15:21.919 --> 00:15:25.440
This is why a lot of them do open online and then decide to stop.
00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:39.919
Uh they want the extra channel, but they don't want to do the effort to uh optimize the processes, and this is where the POS comes in, and uh uh POS keeps track of inventory in store and online and then allows you to pick up.
00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:47.440
Uh this is the any what we're trying to how do you how do you balance a product perfectly built?
00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:51.759
But market ready, and that's speed, perfection.
00:15:51.919 --> 00:15:58.320
How do you balance uh I think uh culture z we never aim for perfect?
00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:06.480
Uh we know that uh whatever we conceptualize will never match what actually is needed for market.
00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:21.279
But we iterate, we just build something that's good enough, iterate, hear back from our merchants, pilot a lot of the features we only launch with very small subset of our merchants, maybe 10 merchants, and then seek feedback and then improve and then launch.
00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:43.679
Some people might say this this makes Z products uh any uh less uh comprehensive and I would say it would make them on the short term less comprehensive because we we launch a small smaller feature, but on the long term they strike the pain point.
00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:45.759
Uh this is what I think this is.
00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:47.279
Okay, this makes sense.
00:16:53.360 --> 00:16:57.360
Fee concept technology would show our alam they are full.
00:16:57.440 --> 00:16:58.320
So we'll uptime.
00:16:58.720 --> 00:16:58.960
Okay.
00:16:59.919 --> 00:17:09.279
Uptime uh who up the minus system fee, must kill a fanal.
00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:11.599
This is any any in simple terms.
00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:17.680
How do you manage uh fee all 100% uptime?
00:17:17.839 --> 00:17:18.000
Okay.
00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:20.319
Yeah.
00:17:20.559 --> 00:17:22.400
Uh during peak times.
00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:25.759
Yeah, let's say uh Green Friday, Ramadan.
00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:27.039
How do you manage this?
00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:29.359
So is it is it actually achievable?
00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:36.960
Okay, so uh again, uptime is measured in time uh how much time of the year uh you're up in.
00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:41.519
Famia Belmiya means three uh 365 days you're always online.
00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:52.000
Uh the challenge is uh and most services are 99.9, a few nines after, depending on how much.
00:17:52.079 --> 00:18:01.440
But every nine means uh you're getting closer to less than a minute uptime, uh sorry, downtime, uh allowable downtime.
00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:09.839
And and every nine means had dunya mun can spell in terms of probability.
00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:21.599
Every nine they add sar, nine a little bad hazarli, nine albaad, it's yeah uh probability I get uh uh.
00:18:24.079 --> 00:18:27.759
We're talking about nine nine, ninety-nine point nine nine, not more than that.
00:18:27.920 --> 00:18:31.599
But this means we're only down for less than two minutes.
00:18:31.839
--> 00:18:36.319
Uh I think yeah, five or something in per per year.
00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:37.119
Wow.
00:18:37.279 --> 00:18:39.039
Uh this is what we're aiming for.
00:18:39.200 --> 00:18:41.119
Type how do we aim, how do we and yet?
00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:43.119
And alhamdulillah, we did it.
00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:49.359
Last year we did uh I think 99.98, and that was due to the Sarma Cloudflare.
00:18:49.759 --> 00:18:50.000
Okay.
00:18:50.319 --> 00:18:55.200
Uh we had nine uh seven months straight of 100% uptime.
00:18:55.519 --> 00:19:07.920
And this takes a lot of discipline, and I think this is what made Zed uh made Zed get to that stage we're at, is that we're disciplined with with how we manage things.
00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:13.920
Uh yeah, any long uh long gone the days are of yOLO uh of yoloing thing.
00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:14.640
Yellow khalas.
00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:16.559
Shag level production jarabish.
00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:24.480
Um we're more disciplined in how we manage deployments, we manage uh scaling, auto-scaling, and how manage rules.
00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:27.680
We know any seasons are seasons.
00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:30.880
They happen for yeah, we know when they happen.
00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:38.400
We know before Ramadan we should start having prepare ourselves, we pre-warm the environment and so on.
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:41.519
Uh it's just discipline, one word.
00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:47.279
Fe complexity, obviously, to what you actually do behind the scenes.
00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:51.680
What's the complexity behind launching Z chip and ZPay?
00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:52.640
Okay.
00:19:53.680 --> 00:20:04.160
So Z chip was the first product that uh Z Khalinangul started outside of the Z core e-commerce thing.
00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:08.559
And I was the tech lead of that product back in 2020.
00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:14.480
Um, the challenge was um, first of all, this is not e-commerce.
00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:22.480
Uh well, it is e-commerce, but it's not uh eShop anymore, it's now logistics, it's not uh it's a different uh industry.
00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:31.920
But in terms of product uh thinking, uh we we all had to switch uh uh and shift our mindset.
00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:38.079
Uh and uh oddly, uh any of uh funny enough, I wrote about this in the uh Phil blog.
00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:41.119
We have a Z blog, Z engineering blog that we write about.
00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:46.880
But I was talking about how we serve the first uh 100,000 shipments with Z chip.
00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:51.680
Kind of challenge again is I need to understand logistics.
00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:59.440
It's no more uh exactly um how do carriers work?
00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:00.960
What are their APIs?
00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:03.200
How how do they assign orders?
00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:05.519
When do they assign orders to each carrier?
00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:11.440
Uh and then um what do I need to know about the customer so I can deliver something to them?
00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:18.880
International shipping, and then there was a lot of things that in terms of business acumen I needed to understand.
00:21:19.119 --> 00:21:23.920
And then in terms of engineering culture, was that we were building a new system.
00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:27.359
This is outside of the great monolith that Zid had.
00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:34.000
Um so how do we uh uh communicate between the two the two systems?
00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:38.160
And this what would this new system be hosted in the same environment?
00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:40.640
Well, hosted outside, what are the IPI boundary?
00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:51.920
What are the just these are the things that are I'm not taking able to uh to grasp how did you actually manage to get the new business scope or technical, etcetera?
00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:59.039
Yeah, uh there was a lot of let's try and see how this works.
00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:01.519
Uh There were uh principles.
00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:04.720
This is how uh I was any at least designing this.
00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:06.240
I'm setting these principles.
00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:11.759
Z uh should not do something anything uh specific to Z chip.
00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:17.359
Zid in that case was the original uh core system.
00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:22.240
Um so uh we were integrating other carriers.
00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:24.880
Z chip should be treated just like any other carrier.
00:22:25.279 --> 00:22:35.200
Okay, that makes sense, just to avoid the core team from getting more complexity to them, and then we focus on building that uh thing our ourselves and the zip chip team.
00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:54.799
And then in terms of z chip, their API has to be uh agnostic to carriers, and we want to build one unified interface so we can integrate carriers, and we got to a point where we had like 40 carriers integrated, and you were talking in uh RMX, SEMSA, and so on, uh the big names and the small names.
00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:55.440
Okay.
00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:22.480
We try to really be the centralized place where all of your orders can come in and like alhadafli.
00:23:23.599 --> 00:23:28.400
Okay, hella um rahdal bi hadith now, but 15 questions.
00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:28.799
Okay.
00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:30.240
How are 15 questions?
00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:32.240
Okay, they are rapid fire questions.
00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:35.519
So uh rasak no explanation.
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:36.400
No explanation.
00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:37.680
We'll get back to some of them.
00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:40.400
But no explanation.
00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:43.680
If you have something to uh to mention, we'll mention it after it.
00:23:43.839 --> 00:23:44.079
Okay?
00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:44.559
Okay.
00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:50.160
So microservices or monolith.
00:23:50.400 --> 00:23:51.839
Monolith, all the way.
00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:54.559
Uh speed to market or code perfection?
00:23:54.799 --> 00:23:55.759
Speed to market.
00:23:56.319 --> 00:24:00.319
Which way Riyadh or Dubai for tech talent?
00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:02.079
Remote, everywhere.
00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:03.519
Riyadh or Dubai?
00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:04.160
Everywhere.
00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:04.640
Okay.
00:24:05.279 --> 00:24:05.599
Nice.
00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:08.400
Everywhere.
00:24:09.279 --> 00:24:12.880
AI and e-commerce, is it revolutionary or overhyped?
00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:19.200
At the moment, I think it's overhyped.
00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:20.960
At the moment.
00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:22.160
Keep it in your mind.
00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:24.960
Technical debt, is it a tool or a trap?
00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:27.200
Both.
00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:34.559
Remote work or engineering war room?
00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:35.759
Remote work.
00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:39.359
Data security or user convenience.
00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:42.720
Convenience.
00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:48.640
Global expansion or local dominance.
00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:50.000
Local dominance.
00:24:50.720 --> 00:24:53.440
The most used app on your phone, not called Zid.
00:24:53.759 --> 00:24:54.240
Slack.
00:24:54.559 --> 00:24:55.119
Slack.
00:24:55.920 --> 00:24:57.599
Saudi coffee or V60?
00:24:57.759 --> 00:24:58.480
V60.
00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:01.759
One word to describe Zid's engineering culture.
00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:04.160
Excellency.
00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:08.000
Is 2026 the year of fully automated retail?
00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:09.759
No.
00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:13.200
How can all 15 questions?
00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:18.400
Okay.
00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:23.440
Speed to market or code perfection.
00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:24.319
Yeah.
00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:29.200
I said speed to market.
00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:35.440
I think you'll never be perfect with your code.
00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:40.960
But you need to not put yourself in a position where you shot yourself in the foot.
00:25:42.799 --> 00:25:43.039
Yes.
00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:47.200
The goal is design something, and again, design.
00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:49.519
Some people just write code.
00:25:49.759 --> 00:25:57.759
I'm saying design things that are simple enough that it doesn't trap you in a very bad situation in the future.
00:25:58.240 --> 00:26:10.160
Best don't stress too much on making this so perfect because I never uh I do contrast writing with coding and writing good code.
00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:17.119
Okay.
00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:19.039
Okay.
00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:20.319
AI and e-commerce.
00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:28.720
AI is overhyped.
00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:33.200
Okay.
00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:41.279
I think ilal an uh model is not mature enough.
00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:44.799
I'm not talking about the AI as technology.
00:26:48.160 --> 00:27:02.480
Shopify and uh OpenAI, they worked on uh I forgot the name of the standard, but to allow the protocol uh the protocol that allows any feeds, product feeds to show up on we'll add the name to it.
00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:03.440
We won't worry about it.
00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:10.640
Uh on on uh on uh chat bots or any chat uh uh models.
00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:13.279
Uh yes, it it's there.
00:27:13.519 --> 00:27:24.640
But use case mahiwab habi any it's not uh it's not mature enough so that we say in uh in this year would be the year that everyone shops through uh LLMs.
00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:36.160
Um and then the checkout model, I think recently also Shopify added four percent to uh as a fee on the merchant for every purchase that happens through open AI.
00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:38.160
Just a lot of too much.
00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:38.880
4%.
00:27:39.759 --> 00:27:44.480
Uh again, uh is expensive.
00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:51.519
Uh and uh that now that it doesn't really really make sense for merchants to show up on the models.
00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:53.599
But I think this is why it's overhyped.
00:27:53.680 --> 00:28:02.319
It's not that the technology is overhyped, though I think parts of the technology are overhyped, but in general, I think we're not yet there in terms of a business model.
00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:02.960
Okay.
00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:06.799
Um data security or user convenience.
00:28:07.119 --> 00:28:15.359
There is an asterisk if we there are minimum minimum security requirements that should always be met.
00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:31.599
So you're willing to move on with the minimum, which makes the app as the actual experience safe, as long as you you you can tick the boxes that says uh my customer is happy, the behavior of my customer is valid, etc.
00:28:31.759 --> 00:28:32.000
etc.
00:28:32.319 --> 00:28:35.200
Yeah, I'm not saying be sloppy.
00:28:35.279 --> 00:28:40.720
You should really consider cybersecurity any very seriously, and this is what we do at Zit.
00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:44.960
But there are the sort of any steps that are unnecessary.
00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:49.200
Say, if you want to change users' permission, send an OTP.
00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:55.440
Too much OTPs, yeah, too much OTPs.
00:28:56.160 --> 00:29:05.920
Uh make sure that the whatever you're doing is not catastrophic in terms of cybersecurity and focus on convenience.
00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:11.759
Um authenticate a session as long as you've already OTP'd for this session, keep the whole session on.
00:29:12.400 --> 00:29:14.160
Uh these are the sort of things that I meant.
00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:15.200
Not being sloppy.
00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:17.200
Sloppy is bad in general.
00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:19.039
You don't want to be there.
00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:23.920
But focus on how do you make integrate security so that it's seamless.
00:29:24.160 --> 00:29:27.359
You know you know something, and um mentari it had hakiak.
00:29:28.640 --> 00:29:42.240
It looks like you have full trust, capacity, leader team, anything that might pop up, we're we're able to actually fix it on spot, time frame.
00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:43.279
Yeah.
00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:48.400
How is it?
00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:51.680
So I am all for empowerment.
00:29:51.920 --> 00:30:00.079
Uh I I don't like me personally being the bottleneck, nor any one of the leads that report to me being the bottleneck.
00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:08.559
Uh I start by my style with the leads that report to me, that then hopefully then trickle down to the rest of the team.
00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:25.119
But what I do is in uh Metharan, if you're leading uh this um uh part of the team, say product engineering, you're the head of product engineering, you're in you build you basically this is the team that builds uh zit.
00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:33.519
Um I am not gonna be on top of your head every day asking what the team did today and are they doing things well enough.
00:30:34.640 --> 00:30:35.759
I'm not micromanaging.
00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:43.200
But micromanagement doesn't mean uh and this is where you should balance.
00:30:43.279 --> 00:30:46.319
Um, there are rules that I'm gonna keep track of things.
00:30:46.480 --> 00:30:58.160
I'm gonna ask you because you're responsible uh and you have ownership, but you're empowered to do things that you without my without like referring back to me or taking my permission.
00:30:58.400 --> 00:31:04.559
But usually too often I have a one-to-one with that uh head of department every two weeks, not every week.
00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:11.119
Uh, because I want to give them enough time to make decisions, maybe make wrong decisions, and then come back and report back.
00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:12.319
Wrong is healthy.
00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:15.279
Yes, wrong is healthy because this is how I learned.
00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:25.519
And uh I you can for a great uh majority of my career, I didn't have a um uh a direct manager that was so technical.
00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:32.480
Um uh or or even at some point we I didn't have a direct manager that was engineering at all.
00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:35.839
But I was making all the decisions myself.
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:43.119
Uh and this is how I learned and then why not?
00:31:43.359 --> 00:31:43.839
Makes sense.
00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:48.160
Yeah, how do you retain top talent Sustainable market?
00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:53.519
It's a very competitive market, fintechs, uh huge uh corporations.
00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:55.359
How do you retain your team?
00:31:57.119 --> 00:31:58.880
Uh it's a difficult question.
00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:04.000
Uh so there are a few principles that I set uh for myself.
00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:08.160
I think money is one key.
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:09.839
Let's get this out of the way.
00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:18.960
Yes, the biggest key, but assuming you're good with the uh with the pay, uh, there are other things that keep people comfortable working at this company.
00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:25.279
Uh, one of them being uh uh semiha technical maturity and engineering culture.
00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:28.960
Uh we have some zidders who left Zid.
00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:30.240
Hello, zidders.
00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:31.440
Yeah, we call them zidders.
00:32:31.680 --> 00:32:31.920
Nice.
00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:34.400
Uh we had some zidders who left Zidd.
00:32:34.559 --> 00:32:41.759
Uh the shortest uh departure time was a month, and then they came back.
00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:42.319
Okay.
00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:46.960
Uh that person went to a European company.
00:32:47.200 --> 00:33:00.319
He assumed in uh it's in Europe, it's gonna be a very mature uh technical, uh, technically any, and then they came back to Z, uh any cursing at them, and they were like, I don't know how how they're operating.
00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:04.400
They're bad code linting, they don't even have code linking.
00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:19.680
When I installed code linting, uh code linter to them, they were like, Leish and uh kidah, this breaks my code, this uh uh throws an error, uh, throws errors, or they they didn't even know how to run a product linter.
00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:21.119
Uh sorry, the code linter.
00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:30.000
Uh and the deployment process was bad, and they were like, any, the this company is nowhere near what I was doing, that's it.
00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:32.799
And the the challenges are not so interesting.
00:33:33.039 --> 00:33:39.279
Um for talented people and high caliber, they want to be challenged.
00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:44.960
Um it's very rare that I see someone who's like, I want a laid up a laid-back job.
00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:46.480
But we have all the challenges.
00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:52.319
The common example that I give to people at Zidden uh we cannot go down.
00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:55.759
We cannot go down for a maintenance, not go down as in outage.
00:33:56.079 --> 00:33:57.200
We cannot go down for maintenance.
00:33:57.359 --> 00:33:58.640
How do you do your maintenance?
00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:01.839
Uh we do maintenance without maintenance windows.
00:34:02.799 --> 00:34:06.960
We all the maintenance we do is up uh uh we call what we call online uh maintenance.
00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:15.280
You keep the system uh the system up and you do things that do not block uh block the the uptime, and this is where discipline comes in.
00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:25.360
Uh these need to be inter handled intricately so that it doesn't cause an outage.
00:34:25.599 --> 00:34:28.480
Uh this is a challenge.
00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:32.239
Uh not every company has, which makes it fun for me.
00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:36.880
Uh I can say no, I cannot go down.
00:34:37.360 --> 00:34:37.920
It's very nice.
00:34:38.159 --> 00:34:47.920
No, you do maintenance, you do online maintenance, you don't go down, you have an uptime of 99.98 0.01 when uh cloud fit.
00:34:48.239 --> 00:34:48.639
Yes.
00:34:48.880 --> 00:34:52.239
Okay, uh the government is pushing digital payments.
00:34:56.639 --> 00:34:57.039
Yes.
00:34:57.519 --> 00:35:03.679
Um it was helpful, push any COVID was the big uh push.
00:35:04.000 -->
00:35:08.719
Uh pre-COVID, um orders, cash and delivery were very high.
00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:11.280
Sarah and uh was a surprising number.
00:35:11.440 --> 00:35:19.199
Um I I considered myself that I any I'm early adopter of just not having a wallet at all.
00:35:19.360 --> 00:35:24.239
I do have a wallet, but saying I don't have cash on the in the wallet, but not having cash at all.
00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:29.760
And for some reason I assumed my circle is representative of the rest of Saudi.
00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:32.000
Uh and then I saw the numbers.
00:35:36.639 --> 00:35:41.440
I saw the numbers were like 60% or 50% at the time orders were cash and delivery.
00:35:43.119 --> 00:35:51.920
That was a big segment of the market, and this was one of the influencing principles for Z chip, and then we wanted to handle cash and delivery collection for merchants.
00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:55.840
Um that was surprising.
00:35:56.000 --> 00:36:11.840
Uh, and as much as they wanted to push online payment and make it more streamlined and use Apple Pay bus, still merchants were not really any uh sorry, not merchants, customers, and customers were not really trusting some random website on the internet taking my money.
00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:15.519
What's the percentage now of people actually using cash on delivery?
00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:18.719
To be honest, I don't have an updated number.
00:36:18.880 --> 00:36:23.519
Uh I stopped tracking that once we we got to a sufficient anyway approximately.
00:36:24.159 --> 00:36:25.360
I think that's less than 10%.
00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:26.800
Wow, yeah.
00:36:27.039 --> 00:36:33.440
Um again, COVID, then push for Made Pay, uh being really out there.
00:36:33.679 --> 00:36:54.159
Um now with Samsung Pay, with uh with Google Pay, halas any there is no reason for the merchant uh customers not to use uh uh online payments, and now with Tamara and Tabby and other uh buy now pay later services, halas uh people do prefer uh buy uh using digital payments than cash.
00:36:54.719 --> 00:36:56.159
How are you aligning hello?
00:36:57.920 --> 00:37:00.320
How are you aligning Malvision 2030?
00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:02.800
Yeah, it's uh I think it's something massive.
00:37:03.519 --> 00:37:07.679
We're aligning very well, but this way you take headlines, but in depth.
00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:12.159
Headlines.
00:37:12.400 --> 00:37:18.320
I I mean the general principle we're increasing the GMV.
00:37:18.559 --> 00:37:34.800
Uh GMV uh of Saudi, it's not that us doing it, but we're playing a big role or an important role as being a platform that pushes merchants to grow and allow them to do more transactions.
00:37:35.440 --> 00:37:50.400
I think that's one of the places that we're playing a role in, and obviously being a tech company in Saudi localizing technology and uh and a lot of what we do, design and build is done here in Saudi, so uh that also localizes technology in Saudi.
00:37:50.719 --> 00:37:51.039
Okay.
00:37:51.679
--> 00:37:54.719
Stamlo Google Cloud briefly.
00:37:55.280 --> 00:38:11.519
On um so because we're trying to localize uh up sorry for data residency, we're trying to uh provide uh local hosting for our customers because uh we started with AWS and then uh we wanted to provide a local hosting for our customers.
00:38:11.840 --> 00:38:14.000
So Google they do have the data center built up.
00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:22.880
Okay, so we we we allow our merchants to choose, they have to apply for it, but say and they they can choose a region to be in Saudi through Google Cloud.
00:38:23.119 --> 00:38:40.719
Complexity, VP of engineering, uptime, uh 99.98, uh online maintenance, but they are for uh how can we wrap our brain a la fiqhirit and no into my kilatah, my team, my new initiative.
00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:48.800
How do you unplug knowing and no fiand customers relying on you 247 365?
00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:51.440
Uh it's funny.
00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:53.920
Uh I have three hobbies.
00:38:54.159 --> 00:38:56.320
Three very different hobbies.
00:38:56.639 --> 00:39:01.599
Uh one is uh reading.
00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:04.719
Uh I do read philosophy.
00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:16.800
These are the and usually especially if you go very theoretical, you can go things that are very detached from the real world.
00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:20.480
This gives me an opportunity this to disconnect.
00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:32.000
Uh and then if I if I'm not feeling actually Aisha Alakab Harikulmuch, uh I watch uh movies, Egyptian movies.
00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:36.880
Uh and then what's your favorite Egyptian movie?
00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:41.280
Uh that's a difficult question.
00:39:41.440 --> 00:39:43.280
Uh I don't re-watch movies.
00:39:43.599 --> 00:39:43.840
Okay.
00:39:44.719 --> 00:39:53.199
Usually what's uh what I like about Egyptian movies is that they're not necessarily about the whole the storyline ever.
00:39:53.440 --> 00:40:02.719
They're about if you just listen to the uh scenario, you'll laugh, that's it.
00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:03.679
Good enough.
00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:08.159
Uh rewatching movies isn't as funny.
00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:10.239
That's why I don't re-watch movies.
00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:11.679
Tell it hobby.
00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:14.880
Uh it's an expensive hobby.
00:40:16.639 --> 00:40:17.760
I like classic cars.
00:40:18.079 --> 00:40:19.280
Do you collect classic cars?
00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:19.760
I don't.
00:40:20.079 --> 00:40:20.960
It's expensive hobby.
00:40:21.119 --> 00:40:21.440
Not yet.
00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:23.360
But hopefully at some point.
00:40:23.519 --> 00:40:26.559
But I like to like go and see uh classic cars.
00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:28.480
What's your dream classic car?
00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:29.599
Targa.
00:40:30.079 --> 00:40:31.679
Some 80s targa.
00:40:31.760 --> 00:40:33.760
Not yet uh sure which one.
00:40:34.079 --> 00:40:35.039
Nice, nice.
00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:41.920
But the one technical milestone and tahazan send me a bucket list, I'll checklist.
00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:45.199
You want to tick by the end of 2026?
00:40:46.480 --> 00:40:51.440
So uh in the past two years, we rewrote a lot of our systems.
00:40:51.599 --> 00:40:56.880
Uh again, moving and we want to build something that would take us for the next five years.
00:40:57.119 --> 00:41:01.760
Uh given that a lot of these systems were built eight years ago.
00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:08.320
Uh they're especially my MVPs and so on, they're they're not serving us.
00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:20.960
Uh we rewrote two very big systems, storefront system that renders the themes and allows the merch uh the customers to actually buy from Z and uh uh and interact with Zed.
00:41:21.199 --> 00:41:23.199
And we rewrote our merchant dashboard.
00:41:23.360 --> 00:41:27.039
This is what our merchants use to manage their stores and orders.
00:41:28.079 --> 00:41:35.440
And now we have 1.2 million lines of code that I'm planning to purge sometime this year.
00:41:35.760 --> 00:41:41.679
Uh if I take that box, uh, I'm gonna make a very big party.
00:41:41.920 --> 00:41:42.480
That's it.
00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:43.599
We're gonna be there.
00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:49.119
Obviously, and yeah, I'm gonna do something outdoors in the in front of this uh the office.
00:41:49.360 --> 00:41:50.960
I'm gonna do something very huge.
00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:53.360
So you everyone is welcome to uh join us.
00:41:54.480 --> 00:41:55.599
Nice, nice.
00:41:55.760 --> 00:42:00.000
Uh uh it was Anjad, uh a huge pleasure.
00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:03.599
Insights, you you have amazing insights.
00:42:03.760 --> 00:42:06.719
You're hke simple, uh, fun.
00:42:07.599 --> 00:42:08.400
I love it.
00:42:08.559 --> 00:42:09.599
I love the session.
00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:16.960
Um, I hope um in that was lovely, Sarah, and I enjoyed it.
00:42:17.199 --> 00:42:17.599
Perfect.
00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:19.360
Thank you, Anukatman al Yom.
00:42:19.679 --> 00:42:20.559
This was unplugged.
00:42:20.960 --> 00:42:22.320
Thank you, absolutely.