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There were days where I hadn't spoken
and it would be just eight
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o'clock at night when I was sitting down
for dinner or seven o'clock
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first time you have a conversation and
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You were still you were thinking
about tomorrow's what
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you're gonna do in the morning and
it was all in your own head
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And it didn't exist yet. It was and I had that
wobble where I realised halfway through it
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Oh shit like I'm one of these dudes who's
writing the book that might not come out
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Imagine that!
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The best advice I got at the start of it
was don't tell people, show people.
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Just show people what it was.
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I was able to do that, I think, which
was a great discovery for me,
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that I can actually translate those
pictures into words.
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You've got to be able to pick yourself sometimes
and realise that when you're at the table,
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you realise most people aren't all that.
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There's a lot of facade and everyone's
making it up as
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they go along. Obviously people
put work in and
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get qualifications and establish
themselves in terms
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of their knowledge of things, but when you're
at the table, you more than belong there.
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So today we chat to musician and writer
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Joe Philpott on the Cork Creative Podcast.
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You're very welcome, Joe.
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Thank you, Geraldine and thanks for having me.
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I appreciate it.
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So growing up in Bishopstown,
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how did the local Cork environment
and music scene
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shape your early ambitions with Ruby Horse?
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I think with Ruby Horse, I mean,
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I started secondary school in Colaiste
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An Spioraid Naoimh in Bishopstown,
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and I was living in Ballincollig,
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and my best friends when I
was in nursery school
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were the guys in Ruby Horse,
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and I moved out to Ballincolleg
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and went to national school there.
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So I reconnected with them.
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When I went back into first year,
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and in the 80s, late 80s in Ireland,
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your identity hinged on, you know,
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what sport you played, what band you were in,
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more accurately in our case.
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So it was actually second year,
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we kind of had that summer of boredom
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that everybody traditionally has,
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and we were lounging around
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out in the commercials football field,
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and we just kind of got it into our heads
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that we were just venture
to this little room
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that our original drummer, his
sister, had a band.
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They were about seven or eight
years older than us.
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So when we walked in, it was like
walking into Toy Town.
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It was like, welcome to Toy Town, Noddy.
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Everything was there, guitars, bass, drums,
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a really bad smell, which we didn't mind.
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And we just kind of assigned ourselves
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to our instruments based on, I had a guitar,
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you look like a drummer, you look
like a bass player,
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and that was kind of the start
of the development
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of the band.
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The school environment itself
was pretty incredible.
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We had a teacher, his name is
Tony Dougherty, the Doc,
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and huge advocate for the arts.
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And we were very lucky in Spioraid naoimh
at the time.
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It's not there anymore now, which is a shame,
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but there was a school stage,
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which was actually almost like a
state of the art theatre.
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Even things, sound and lights
were already there,
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which was incredible, even for people
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who just wanted to get into the
technical side of it.
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Actually, a couple of lads that
went through the school
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ended up becoming techs because of that,
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being in that environment on a basic level.
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But you know what, it was up there.
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And that environment, that encouragement.
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Gave us a platform and an audience as well,
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because we had the hall, the
stage, the lights,
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and our peers and their friends,
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and we were encouraged
Load full transcript
to kind
of put on shows.
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So that was huge.
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Stepping out of that, we kind of, I suppose,
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realised that in order to be a real band,
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you needed to play venues around
town at the time.
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It was a massive scene.
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In Cork City, Sir Henry's was
probably the beacon
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of everyone's dreams.
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And you didn't really become a band
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until you crossed that threshold
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into the liminal space of Sir Henry's.
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Which is what we kind of bluffed our way into.
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At the age of 15, Tony O'Donoughue,
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who was a promoter in Cork at the time,
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he's RTE Sports reporter now, he kind
of really liked us.
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And even though we were very young,
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he gave us the opportunity to play openers
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for Something Happens, The Stunning, A House,
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any band that was coming through,
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we pretty much opened up for.
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And that was a huge thing for a bunch of kids.
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Absolutely, yeah.
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Right.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So it kind of, we had our own.
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We were pretty good.
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For a 20 minute set, 25 minute set, we...
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And at the time, I guess when you're 16 or 15,
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I mean, you have that kind of energy anyway.
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And we arrived up in our school uniforms,
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getting stopped by the bouncers at the door.
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And who are you?
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And we were like, we're the band,
we're the opener.
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And they were like, "Lads, then get
the school uniforms on,
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ride them to Red Square to
get to Paisley Shirts
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and get geared up."
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That was kind of the start of
it in terms of the city
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and playing inside in Cork at the time.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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That is fairly, like a fairly
cool story, isn't it?
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Like, I can't even, like, there,
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like even just with Sir Henry,
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it's like, it's a shame it's gone like,
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--> 00:05:28,875
but it was such an epic venue, you know?
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It was, and I mean, amazing
acts coming through.
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Sonic Youth, Nirvana,
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you know, all the Irish bands that
were traveling at the time,
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they had things like Transvision Vamp,
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and you had all these kind of, you know,
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you had incredible stuff.
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And of course then the dance scene, you know,
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it became one of the dance capitals of Europe,
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I suppose, or the world,
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in terms of what was going on there
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in the kind of late, end of the eighties,
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into the early nineties and beyond.
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But like, you know, either Franks,
either Sultans,
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I mean, you did everything.
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I mean, Cork at the time was heaving
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with rehearsal rooms.
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Bands, I mean, if you walk through the city,
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France, where the lobby is,
down at Union Quay,
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all the way across, it was just
this cacophony of sound
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coming out of every spare, you know,
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upstairs office or garage you
could possibly imagine.
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They were like, you know,
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definitely a couple of hundred bands
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knocking around the city.
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So crazy, but that was actually, you know,
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and everybody was actively gigging,
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and everybody was kind of like
vying for existence,
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you know? Okay.
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And moving from Cork, then I suppose,
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like taking Ruby Horse from Cork
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to the US Billboard Top 20 is like incredible.
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What was it like, I suppose, transitioning
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from the local gigs to performing "Sparkle"
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on American late night television?
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Well, there was a long journey to take
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from us in Fast Eddies, you know,
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and Tuckey Street to be on.
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At Sullivan's Theatre in New York,
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live to 14 million people,
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as somebody tapped me on the
shoulder two seconds
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before I
went down and told me.
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But, like, I think when you
commit to something
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in any walk of life, and you walk
steadily and patiently
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for a long time in the same direction,
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the law of averages, things will happen.
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And in our case, I think the leap we took,
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leaving Cork was a decision
because we realised,
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I think to be fair, in hindsight,
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we were probably a bit more astute
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than we maybe give ourselves credit for,
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in the sense that we had a very clear vision
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as to what we were trying to achieve.
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And America at the time, it's different
now, obviously,
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but at the time, it was still
that beacon of hope.
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In Ireland anyway, you kind of
had that relationship
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with America, if you grew up in the eighties,
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a lot of friends of ours, uncles
of ours, cousins of ours,
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had gone and done very well.
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And, you know, there was always that,
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we weren't afraid of the word success,
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which probably was working against
us, maybe here.
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We wanted to achieve, and it's awfully
uncooled to say that.
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But we didn't care.
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We actually felt, you know what, like,
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when I say success, I mean, life experience.
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I mean, we wanted to be in
California's sunshine
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in November, as cheesy and all
as that sounds like.
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We had all these kind of like,
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we wanted to get into a yellow
taxi in New York.
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We wanted to, you know, sit and have a point
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with norm and cheers until we found out
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that cheers didn't actually exist.
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And, you know, there was a naivety
attached to it,
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but it was also a kind of an
ambition, I suppose,
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that was a little bit,
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we didn't want to go and do the
squatting in London
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and come home miserable after
eight months, you know,
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because we saw great bands doing that.
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And for us, it was like, well,
we won't survive
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because we don't have that kind of,
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that's not what we're really about.
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We wanted to go and have that
experience far away
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and take that leap.
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And so it took a bit of work.
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We had to get our work permits, which we did.
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How we got that, I just, I mean, to this day,
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took us a year to get them.
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And we did it all properly, you know,
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which was kind of part of the
reason why we were able
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to kind of survive out there is
because the things that,
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the bumps that you run into,
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we kind of managed to kind of figure
out before we left.
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And we had nothing going out there.
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Absolutely nothing.
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I mean, it's people kind of don't believe us.
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When we say we had a thousand
euro pounds, actually,
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in old money, a full number,
a few sleeping bags.
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Yeah, so there was like kind
of compound interest
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filled up of a lot of bravery and stupidity,
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which is probably a recipe for success
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at that stage of your life.
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That led us to all these extraordinary
experiences,
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one of them being the Letterman show and on.
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You sound very responsible though,
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for like a group of young lads
coming from Cork.
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Like it seems like you got your work
permits and everything.
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Like you sound like you had a good old plan
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to when you were going over there.
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It wasn't just a spur of the moment thing.
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Well, I wouldn't say we were responsible
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in the sense we were as mad as brushes.
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You know, we were wild.
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But we did definitely have
a sense of ourselves,
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which probably annoyed people, you know?
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We kind of, like even things
like when I think back
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to before we left, we made a record
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in elementary studios in Cork and
we put it out in the back
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and you know, at the time making a record
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and producing it and releasing
it was the thing
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because people still bought CDs
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and there was a kind of a bit attached to it.
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Now you can make music on an app
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and release it in 10 seconds.
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And back then you had to kind of do a whole,
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which was beautiful by the way.
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There was a lovely process to what it was.
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So we approached elementary studios
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and asked them could we kind of use
the studio on downtime?
249
00:10:47,125 --> 00:10:49,625
And we made a deal with Mark Atkins.
250
00:10:49,875 --> 00:10:51,583
And I can't think of the other man's name.
251
00:10:51,625 --> 00:10:55,250
He was a lovely, Ger, can't
think of the second name,
252
00:10:55,250 --> 00:10:56,250
a Ger O'Sullivan maybe,
253
00:10:56,250 --> 00:10:58,000
I'm not sure somebody out there will know.
254
00:10:58,708 --> 00:11:00,041
And they said, look, no problem.
255
00:11:00,500 --> 00:11:01,750
But then we said, we've got no money.
256
00:11:02,541 --> 00:11:04,500
And he said, well, look, can you pay?
257
00:11:05,333 --> 00:11:07,458
So we agreed a fee and we paid them like,
258
00:11:07,458 --> 00:11:11,250
I think a 10 or each every week
until we had paid off
259
00:11:11,875 --> 00:11:12,916
the cost of the record.
260
00:11:12,916 --> 00:11:14,791
And then we got a sponsorship
deal with Guinness
261
00:11:15,541 --> 00:11:17,958
to do a tour and buy us a van.
262
00:11:18,208 --> 00:11:20,750
And so we had that sense, all
right, definitely.
263
00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,208
But we weren't, we were bonkers.
264
00:11:24,625 --> 00:11:26,416
I mean, we were like, there's no identity.
265
00:11:27,583 --> 00:11:31,541
We were definitely not overly focused.
266
00:11:33,375 --> 00:11:34,500
Bonkers, but with a plan.
267
00:11:35,791 --> 00:11:39,166
Yeah, definitely kind of an end game insight
268
00:11:39,333 --> 00:11:40,041
and a drive.
269
00:11:40,916 --> 00:11:41,708
I think you can Cal
270
00:11:42,041 --> 00:11:44,708
McCallaghan who I spoke recently, did an article on us
271
00:11:44,708 --> 00:11:45,625
on Black Moon Sentinel.
272
00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:47,541
He always remembered, she just said,
273
00:11:47,541 --> 00:11:50,125
I just remembered the ambition
was actually terrifying.
274
00:11:50,708 --> 00:11:53,000
He said, like for a bunch of young fellas,
275
00:11:53,958 --> 00:11:55,375
even with him, he was a few years old,
276
00:11:55,375 --> 00:11:56,750
he kind of said to be kind of around,
277
00:11:56,750 --> 00:11:58,916
it was almost unnerving
278
00:11:59,125 --> 00:12:01,625
because there was a definite
focus there, for sure.
279
00:12:02,875 --> 00:12:04,625
I'm probably like a bit of an eijet here now,
280
00:12:04,625 --> 00:12:07,583
but that's just a fact, that's the way it was.
281
00:12:10,083 --> 00:12:11,791
And you had an amazing opportunity
282
00:12:12,041 --> 00:12:16,000
to record the track Punch Drunk
with George Harrison.
283
00:12:16,375 --> 00:12:18,083
How did that collaboration come about?
284
00:12:18,416 --> 00:12:20,083
And what was the most memorable part
285
00:12:20,291 --> 00:12:21,000
of working with him?
286
00:12:22,500 --> 00:12:23,541
Like all of these things,
287
00:12:23,750 --> 00:12:25,708
I mean, the most complicated things
288
00:12:25,708 --> 00:12:28,458
are usually born out of
of the simple seeds.
289
00:12:29,875 --> 00:12:31,291
Nowadays, that fascinates me
290
00:12:31,291 --> 00:12:33,333
because when I look back on it and
even writing the book,
291
00:12:33,583 --> 00:12:35,208
and I was looking at it and thinking, okay,
292
00:12:36,208 --> 00:12:38,791
if you are a kid and cork and your parents
293
00:12:38,875 --> 00:12:40,875
have Sergeant Pepper and you're looking at it,
294
00:12:40,875 --> 00:12:43,291
every time you put on a music
channel or documentary,
295
00:12:43,583 --> 00:12:44,666
it tells you that the Beatles
296
00:12:44,666 --> 00:12:46,000
were the greatest band of all time.
297
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:47,250
And you fall in love with their music
298
00:12:47,500 --> 00:12:51,083
and you think that's wildly
out of reach for me.
299
00:12:52,083 --> 00:12:54,083
And then you find yourself playing
with one of them.
300
00:12:54,583 --> 00:12:55,208
I don't really know.
301
00:12:55,458 --> 00:12:58,708
I mean, like the simplest way I
can put it is we asked him
302
00:12:59,458 --> 00:13:00,333
and he said, yes.
303
00:13:01,583 --> 00:13:04,208
As somebody said to me recently,
304
00:13:05,083 --> 00:13:06,625
one, yes, can change the trajectory
305
00:13:06,625 --> 00:13:08,208
of any part of your life.
306
00:13:08,208 --> 00:13:09,666
And that certainly did for us
307
00:13:09,916 --> 00:13:11,375
and continues to be something
308
00:13:11,375 --> 00:13:12,750
that I almost find to be from my head.
309
00:13:13,291 --> 00:13:14,083
We were in Los Angeles.
310
00:13:14,333 --> 00:13:16,666
A lot of the time too, the environment
you're in,
311
00:13:17,333 --> 00:13:19,500
I'm coming from Ireland and even
still it's so small.
312
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,333
I mean, we've huge reach as a nation
313
00:13:22,958 --> 00:13:25,375
and we punch above our weight in
so many different things.
314
00:13:26,041 --> 00:13:29,833
But when you're home, stepping
outside your doors
315
00:13:30,125 --> 00:13:31,833
is different to stepping outside your door
316
00:13:31,833 --> 00:13:33,583
when you're in New York or
when you're in Boston
317
00:13:33,791 --> 00:13:34,500
or Los Angeles.
318
00:13:34,750 --> 00:13:37,041
And in our case, we were kind
of in LA at the time
319
00:13:37,041 --> 00:13:42,500
and our manager was picking George
Harrison up from LAX.
320
00:13:43,958 --> 00:13:45,750
And he had the cassette on the car
321
00:13:46,500 --> 00:13:49,166
and he asked, George just asked, who's that?
322
00:13:49,375 --> 00:13:51,708
And he said, it's a band I'm working
with from Cork.
323
00:13:51,708 --> 00:13:53,250
And he said, I love it, it's great.
324
00:13:53,875 --> 00:13:56,208
And Jeff said to him in the rear view mirror,
325
00:13:56,208 --> 00:13:57,458
he said, would you play on it?
326
00:13:57,666 --> 00:13:59,083
And George said, yeah.
327
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:00,666
And that was it.
328
00:14:01,416 --> 00:14:04,750
And a couple of months later,
he got in touch with us
329
00:14:04,750 --> 00:14:06,416
and he said, I was in my kitchen
330
00:14:07,166 --> 00:14:08,958
and I can't get that song out of my head.
331
00:14:09,208 --> 00:14:11,791
And I just, I'd love to play
and send me the reels.
332
00:14:11,791 --> 00:14:13,625
So we sent him the tapes to
his place in London.
333
00:14:14,125 --> 00:14:15,625
We were in Miami mixing the song.
334
00:14:16,666 --> 00:14:18,958
And he sent it back to us and it was done.
335
00:14:19,541 --> 00:14:22,916
And he charged us $25 to make it official,
336
00:14:23,166 --> 00:14:25,416
a kind of a union standard union fee
337
00:14:26,375 --> 00:14:30,208
to kind of solidify the contractual
element of it.
338
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,291
And there's a great kind of full circle story
339
00:14:34,291 --> 00:14:35,125
which is in the book.
340
00:14:35,875 --> 00:14:38,250
So you have to buy the book to
find out how it ended.
341
00:14:38,500 --> 00:14:38,791
Very good.
342
00:14:40,333 --> 00:14:41,958
So just ask the question.
343
00:14:42,208 --> 00:14:44,083
So basically if you don't ask,
you don't receive it.
344
00:14:44,750 --> 00:14:45,541
Well, I think so.
345
00:14:45,541 --> 00:14:47,625
I think there's a huge nervousness attached
346
00:14:47,833 --> 00:14:48,833
all the time to us.
347
00:14:48,833 --> 00:14:50,458
And we always put ourselves in a,
348
00:14:51,291 --> 00:14:53,083
you gotta be able to pick yourself sometimes
349
00:14:53,458 --> 00:14:58,250
and realise that when you're at the table,
350
00:14:58,541 --> 00:15:00,166
you realize most people aren't all that.
351
00:15:01,708 --> 00:15:03,541
There's a lot of facade
352
00:15:03,750 --> 00:15:06,250
and everyone's making it up as they go along.
353
00:15:06,500 --> 00:15:09,333
Obviously people put work in
and get qualifications
354
00:15:09,666 --> 00:15:12,958
and establish themselves in terms
of their knowledge
355
00:15:13,208 --> 00:15:13,791
of things.
356
00:15:14,041 --> 00:15:14,916
But when you're at the table,
357
00:15:15,666 --> 00:15:18,291
you're more than belong there.
358
00:15:18,916 --> 00:15:22,041
So it's always good to just realise that
359
00:15:22,041 --> 00:15:25,458
without being arrogant or without
being aggressive
360
00:15:25,708 --> 00:15:27,250
about what you have to offer.
361
00:15:27,500 --> 00:15:28,750
You deserve to be there.
362
00:15:29,166 --> 00:15:30,750
So I think, and it's an Irish thing
too.
363
00:15:30,750 --> 00:15:33,958
I think we're forever making our
apologies for existing.
364
00:15:35,791 --> 00:15:37,333
Very true, very true, yeah.
365
00:15:37,625 --> 00:15:39,500
Yeah, so like it's sometimes it's good to have
366
00:15:39,500 --> 00:15:41,666
a bit of balls and just go for it.
367
00:15:42,916 --> 00:15:43,250
Absolutely.
368
00:15:44,333 --> 00:15:47,750
And having shared stages with
massive acts like REM
369
00:15:47,750 --> 00:15:49,208
and Cheryl Crow and Def Leppard,
370
00:15:49,666 --> 00:15:52,125
is there one specific memory from those tours
371
00:15:52,125 --> 00:15:53,916
that still gives you goosebumps?
372
00:15:56,166 --> 00:15:57,791
Yeah, like I think playing,
373
00:15:58,041 --> 00:16:02,125
when you play stadiums, 30,000 people indoor,
374
00:16:02,833 --> 00:16:04,625
like it's quite a thing.
375
00:16:05,250 --> 00:16:07,125
It doesn't really ever get old.
376
00:16:08,583 --> 00:16:10,916
And there's something kind of
secure about it really
377
00:16:11,250 --> 00:16:12,958
because when you play small venues,
it's terrifying
378
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,583
because everybody's two feet away from you
379
00:16:15,583 --> 00:16:17,791
and have to know your auntie.
380
00:16:17,791 --> 00:16:19,541
Whereas like in a stadium,
381
00:16:19,708 --> 00:16:21,916
you're just immersed in this ball of energy
382
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:23,833
that's almost bigger than you.
383
00:16:24,625 --> 00:16:27,458
And you're kind of living it almost
like outside of yourself
384
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:32,083
and it becomes a kind of an
immersive experience.
385
00:16:32,541 --> 00:16:33,708
So that was incredible.
386
00:16:33,708 --> 00:16:35,166
And with the Def Leppard, it's all show.
387
00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:40,291
So you get the full whack of
what that thing is.
388
00:16:40,625 --> 00:16:43,458
And I mean, they happen to be very
nice people as well,
389
00:16:44,125 --> 00:16:45,291
which was very cool.
390
00:16:45,666 --> 00:16:46,958
I mean, we were playing club shows
391
00:16:47,916 --> 00:16:49,458
simultaneously to the stadiums.
392
00:16:50,083 --> 00:16:52,375
So like we'd be in say Indianapolis
393
00:16:52,958 --> 00:16:54,291
and we'd be playing a stadium
394
00:16:54,583 --> 00:16:57,708
and they'd come down and watch
us the following night
395
00:16:57,708 --> 00:16:59,416
in a tiny 200 seater,
396
00:16:59,416 --> 00:17:02,166
they'd be in the crowd wearing our t-shirts.
397
00:17:02,500 --> 00:17:05,041
You know, that's kind of, you
know, pretty cool.
398
00:17:05,250 --> 00:17:05,708
They were lovely.
399
00:17:05,958 --> 00:17:07,166
I mean, it was amazing.
400
00:17:07,583 --> 00:17:09,416
And everybody else, R.E.M were the same.
401
00:17:09,458 --> 00:17:11,916
Like we met them in Georgia, just
walking down the street
402
00:17:11,916 --> 00:17:14,291
and they came to see us in the Georgia theater
403
00:17:14,541 --> 00:17:17,083
and we just went out for a few pints
with them afterwards
404
00:17:17,291 --> 00:17:19,541
and they just invited us to play with them.
405
00:17:19,833 --> 00:17:23,333
And, you know, so things like that
just kind of happened.
406
00:17:24,416 --> 00:17:24,625
Yeah.
407
00:17:25,958 --> 00:17:27,166
What a life you've lived.
408
00:17:27,416 --> 00:17:28,833
Isn't it so interesting?
409
00:17:28,833 --> 00:17:29,375
Oh my gosh.
410
00:17:30,583 --> 00:17:32,833
Yeah, like it was, look, we were very lucky
411
00:17:33,083 --> 00:17:34,916
and we were blessed.
412
00:17:35,416 --> 00:17:39,000
And I'm really grateful for the
time we spent doing it.
413
00:17:39,041 --> 00:17:42,958
You know, it was in our twenties
and into our early thirties
414
00:17:42,958 --> 00:17:45,000
which is the time to do it.
415
00:17:45,291 --> 00:17:48,625
And it was, all of it was,
416
00:17:48,625 --> 00:17:51,208
most of it was pinch me stuff, you know?
417
00:17:51,750 --> 00:17:56,041
And it was, there was a lot of
luminous experience
418
00:17:56,458 --> 00:17:59,125
and experiences and bright and kind of,
419
00:17:59,333 --> 00:18:00,583
you were kind of aware,
420
00:18:00,875 --> 00:18:04,625
I wish I was more aware at the
time of what it was,
421
00:18:04,833 --> 00:18:08,708
you know, cause I didn't really have
a sense of what it was.
422
00:18:09,041 --> 00:18:10,625
Really, I kind of almost had,
423
00:18:12,458 --> 00:18:13,875
I don't know how to describe it,
424
00:18:13,875 --> 00:18:15,750
but I kind of, I don't think I ever stopped
425
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:17,791
and kind of just took a breath, you know?
426
00:18:17,791 --> 00:18:20,750
I think it was over before I kind
of realized what it was.
427
00:18:20,750 --> 00:18:22,333
It's actually only in recent years actually
428
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,875
that retrospectively it's been
easier to digest
429
00:18:27,166 --> 00:18:28,500
and to take in.
430
00:18:30,125 --> 00:18:30,458
Okay.
431
00:18:31,250 --> 00:18:33,833
And like, it all sounds pretty amazing,
432
00:18:33,833 --> 00:18:36,291
but how did you, I suppose the
negative side of things,
433
00:18:36,291 --> 00:18:38,375
like how did you navigate the
intense pressures
434
00:18:38,625 --> 00:18:41,208
like the burnout and the shifting landscape
435
00:18:41,208 --> 00:18:42,541
of the US music industry?
436
00:18:44,208 --> 00:18:45,000
That was very real.
437
00:18:45,666 --> 00:18:49,666
I mean, as amazing as it all was,
438
00:18:49,750 --> 00:18:53,000
my central nervous system, now
that I know what that is,
439
00:18:53,333 --> 00:18:54,458
was completely shot.
440
00:18:55,458 --> 00:19:00,916
You know, my adrenaline was at high
levels for, you know,
441
00:19:01,916 --> 00:19:05,000
10 years and everything was pressure.
442
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,166
You know, getting from one, even small things
443
00:19:08,291 --> 00:19:10,500
like finishing a show and wherever,
444
00:19:10,875 --> 00:19:13,666
having to do 1500 kilometers
to get to the next one,
445
00:19:15,166
--> 00:19:17,000
you know, and being in a van with guys
446
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,333
you were nursery school with
and that you love,
447
00:19:19,541 --> 00:19:21,750
but it's challenging, you know?
448
00:19:22,291 --> 00:19:25,833
And you're away from family,
you're away from home,
449
00:19:26,708 --> 00:19:28,583
you're sacrificing a lot of relationships
450
00:19:28,875 --> 00:19:31,208
and situations that probably need tending to,
451
00:19:32,416 --> 00:19:33,750
and what are you actually chasing?
452
00:19:34,250 --> 00:19:35,083
You know, what are you after?
453
00:19:35,291 --> 00:19:36,291
You know, what's the end game?
454
00:19:36,833 --> 00:19:37,791
And then you have the industry,
455
00:19:37,791 --> 00:19:41,291
which at the time was a bit of a cesspool.
456
00:19:41,625 --> 00:19:44,041
Like, you know, you wouldn't
be around the great,
457
00:19:44,041 --> 00:19:47,291
there's some wonderful people
in it, amazing people.
458
00:19:48,375 --> 00:19:50,125
We met like people like Steve Ralbovsky
459
00:19:50,666 --> 00:19:52,791
and a lot of the girls that worked
460
00:19:53,166 --> 00:19:55,750
on the Island Record team were lovely.
461
00:19:55,750 --> 00:19:57,083
I mean, lots and lots of people,
462
00:19:57,083 --> 00:20:00,375
but there was a lot of things that probably
463
00:20:00,541 --> 00:20:02,375
people still have to navigate, you know?
464
00:20:02,625 --> 00:20:06,125
I mean, when you look at what
came out, you know,
465
00:20:06,666 --> 00:20:09,166
subsequently about, you know,
what people were doing
466
00:20:09,750 --> 00:20:11,958
and the kind of abuse that maybe was going on
467
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:13,916
and the manipulation and things,
468
00:20:13,916 --> 00:20:15,000
it's all kind of public now,
469
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,666
but back then you were just in
it and you were around it
470
00:20:17,666 --> 00:20:20,250
and you were kind of going, did I
just see that or hear that?
471
00:20:20,250 --> 00:20:22,291
And there wasn't a whole pile you
could really do about it
472
00:20:22,291 --> 00:20:25,333
unless, so like there was pressure
473
00:20:25,666 --> 00:20:28,875
and there's also manipulation.
474
00:20:29,166 --> 00:20:30,375
And, you know, when you were at the party
475
00:20:30,375 --> 00:20:31,833
and everyone wants to be around you,
476
00:20:32,500 --> 00:20:34,291
or you don't really understand
477
00:20:34,291 --> 00:20:35,666
what people's motives are all the time.
478
00:20:35,916 --> 00:20:38,500
Like there was a lot of people making
a lot of money from us.
479
00:20:38,500 --> 00:20:42,291
We went through various different
management situations
480
00:20:42,291 --> 00:20:43,666
that weren't always healthy.
481
00:20:45,500 --> 00:20:49,458
And we were kind of like in a big,
everything was high stakes.
482
00:20:50,083 --> 00:20:52,333
So it felt like a high stakes
poker game all the time.
483
00:20:52,333 --> 00:20:53,708
So every time you've made a move,
484
00:20:54,291 --> 00:20:57,958
the repercussion of that move
was either a success
485
00:20:58,250 --> 00:20:58,875
or a failure.
486
00:20:59,500 --> 00:21:01,375
And if you didn't hit the bullseye, you know,
487
00:21:01,500 --> 00:21:03,666
you realize when you're, I remember
someone said to me
488
00:21:03,666 --> 00:21:04,791
one time when you're hot, you're hot,
489
00:21:04,791 --> 00:21:05,750
when you're cold, you're freezing.
490
00:21:06,500 --> 00:21:07,791
And that's exactly what it was like.
491
00:21:08,083 --> 00:21:11,041
It was like when you're the talk of the town,
492
00:21:11,041 --> 00:21:12,333
everybody wants to be around you.
493
00:21:12,333 --> 00:21:15,541
But when you were looking for a
hand around the shoulder
494
00:21:15,541 --> 00:21:18,166
or some guidance, you're not in the
right industry for that.
495
00:21:19,125 --> 00:21:19,958
Good luck with that.
496
00:21:21,916 --> 00:21:24,750
And after stepping away from the
commercial music scene,
497
00:21:24,750 --> 00:21:27,458
you worked in European hospitals
and palliative care.
498
00:21:28,041 --> 00:21:30,916
How did that profound experience
fundamentally change
499
00:21:31,041 --> 00:21:32,375
your relationship with music?
500
00:21:34,041 --> 00:21:36,666
Yeah, it was a big one.
501
00:21:36,666 --> 00:21:38,500
It was kind of where I got back from America.
502
00:21:39,083 --> 00:21:40,750
After the band, we didn't really break up.
503
00:21:40,750 --> 00:21:42,500
We just kind of took a break that ended up
504
00:21:43,250 --> 00:21:45,083
Being 10 years long or more.
505
00:21:46,333 --> 00:21:47,416
I was completely lost.
506
00:21:47,875 --> 00:21:48,541
I didn't really know.
507
00:21:48,541 --> 00:21:50,625
I came back home for personal reasons
508
00:21:50,708 --> 00:21:55,625
and I had no interest in resetting
myself back in the States.
509
00:21:56,083 --> 00:21:59,250
I was completely institutionalised
by being in the band.
510
00:22:00,541 --> 00:22:02,708
So I didn't really know what I wanted to do.
511
00:22:03,083 --> 00:22:06,416
So I came back to Cork and I was
just completely lost.
512
00:22:06,833 --> 00:22:09,000
I was just, I didn't know what I wanted to do.
513
00:22:09,750 --> 00:22:12,375
I felt a bit broken, not overstated,
514
00:22:12,375 --> 00:22:14,250
but I was just very rattled.
515
00:22:14,583 --> 00:22:16,791
Like, from my whole identity was gone.
516
00:22:17,500 --> 00:22:18,541
It was just right here.
517
00:22:18,833 --> 00:22:19,500
What are you exactly?
518
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:21,875
You've never really played with
any other musicians.
519
00:22:22,875 --> 00:22:24,500
You were in the band since you were 14.
520
00:22:25,375 --> 00:22:28,583
You're late twenties now, like
what you wanna do?
521
00:22:28,583 --> 00:22:29,458
And I hadn't a clue.
522
00:22:29,958 --> 00:22:32,583
And I fell out of love absolutely
523
00:22:32,791 --> 00:22:35,000
with the industry of music and
the business music
524
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:36,833
because I had absolutely no interest in that.
525
00:22:36,833 --> 00:22:39,375
I didn't have the ambition that
I had 10 years previous
526
00:22:39,375 --> 00:22:42,625
or longer to be in a band and
to rev up that engine
527
00:22:42,833 --> 00:22:44,833
with other people at the time.
528
00:22:45,541 --> 00:22:50,333
So I kind of met my wife, Aoibheann
and her brother, Joe Carey.
529
00:22:50,750 --> 00:22:52,875
And we formed, they had a band called Jodavino
530
00:22:52,875 --> 00:22:56,958
and I started playing with them
and we, it was lovely.
531
00:22:57,500 --> 00:22:59,625
We went to three, we were doing
some beautiful tours
532
00:22:59,625 --> 00:23:03,041
and we were more family than anything else.
533
00:23:03,041 --> 00:23:04,916
And we actually went back out to Nashville
534
00:23:04,916 --> 00:23:05,833
and made a record.
535
00:23:05,833 --> 00:23:08,166
And then we came back and I married Aoibheann,
536
00:23:08,166 --> 00:23:10,125
Joe married my sister and we
started having family.
537
00:23:10,125 --> 00:23:13,125
So there was a bigger question
at play for me then,
538
00:23:13,125 --> 00:23:16,041
which was like, look, I love
music, I realized,
539
00:23:16,333 --> 00:23:18,625
but I just didn't, I wanted to
find the value of it
540
00:23:18,666 --> 00:23:22,000
somewhere for me and for what
could I put back into
541
00:23:22,916 --> 00:23:24,666
the world that was useful and valuable.
542
00:23:24,666 --> 00:23:26,750
So I stumbled across this training course
543
00:23:26,875 --> 00:23:28,416
and I said, absolutely no idea what it was.
544
00:23:28,416 --> 00:23:30,916
You had to go for an audition
in Dublin Castle.
545
00:23:32,833 --> 00:23:35,625
So I went, I have no idea what this is,
546
00:23:35,625 --> 00:23:37,166
but I'm just gonna do what it sounds cool.
547
00:23:37,375 --> 00:23:39,666
And I had a sense that it might be interesting
548
00:23:39,666 --> 00:23:42,208
and it was, so I thought I wouldn't get it.
549
00:23:42,208 --> 00:23:44,500
So I arrived up and completely
missed the brief,
550
00:23:44,500 --> 00:23:46,500
got the whole audition completely wrong,
551
00:23:46,833 --> 00:23:50,458
but somehow made a connection
with Elaine Agnew,
552
00:23:50,458 --> 00:23:53,750
who was one of the, on the panel
for the interview.
553
00:23:53,791 --> 00:23:56,916
And she, I got chosen as one of four,
554
00:23:57,666 --> 00:24:00,416
like there were thousands of
auditions, I believe,
555
00:24:01,083 --> 00:24:02,666
not thousands, sorry, hundreds of auditions.
556
00:24:03,166 --> 00:24:06,125
And I got, I was one of the
four Irish musicians.
557
00:24:07,041 --> 00:24:09,833
It was 16 musicians from all
over Europe training
558
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,166
in each of those countries, the UK, Ireland,
559
00:24:13,500 --> 00:24:14,916
France and Poland.
560
00:24:15,708 --> 00:24:18,291
It was run by an organisation
called Music Eisante,
561
00:24:18,291 --> 00:24:20,083
Music and Health, who were based in Paris.
562
00:24:20,083 --> 00:24:22,250
At the time they were running for 25 years
563
00:24:22,875 --> 00:24:26,458
and they had created an amazing
culture of having the arts
564
00:24:26,458 --> 00:24:30,125
and music as a central part of
the recovery process,
565
00:24:30,875 --> 00:24:32,291
therapeutic as opposed to therapy.
566
00:24:33,750 --> 00:24:37,458
So it was an amazing experience
just to go there and train
567
00:24:37,458 --> 00:24:40,958
and work in the hospital settings
and all sorts of stuff
568
00:24:40,958 --> 00:24:47,375
from oncology to med-el to neonatal
to psychology,
569
00:24:47,750 --> 00:24:49,208
everything, and see their approach
570
00:24:50,458 --> 00:24:53,041
and do it over a two year period
in different countries.
571
00:24:53,833 --> 00:24:55,916
So it opened up a whole new worry
for me in terms of
572
00:24:56,125 --> 00:24:58,375
how valuable music can be,
573
00:24:58,666 --> 00:25:00,125
like how a culture and experience
574
00:25:00,125 --> 00:25:01,375
when you're actually most vulnerable.
575
00:25:02,958 --> 00:25:04,500
And actually, you know, what it gives people
576
00:25:04,500 --> 00:25:05,791
is an opportunity to say no,
577
00:25:05,791 --> 00:25:08,000
because when you bring music into
a healthcare setting
578
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,125
and ask and offer it, someone can say no.
579
00:25:10,125 --> 00:25:11,958
And very often that there's dignity in that
580
00:25:12,041 --> 00:25:13,500
because it's some of the choices.
581
00:25:14,375 --> 00:25:15,500
They don't have a whole plan of choices
582
00:25:15,708 --> 00:25:17,208
when they're dealing with their health.
583
00:25:17,541 --> 00:25:19,500
Or their lack of health or
whatever it might be.
584
00:25:20,291 --> 00:25:22,166
So I loved it and it was an education
585
00:25:22,541 --> 00:25:25,125
and it was an experience that
kind of made me realise,
586
00:25:25,125 --> 00:25:27,458
okay, this is another lane that I can occupy
587
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,416
as a musician that I had no idea about.
588
00:25:30,625 --> 00:25:33,291
So I kind of developed my own
practice around it then
589
00:25:33,375 --> 00:25:36,916
for the bones of 13 years through
an organisation.
590
00:25:37,125 --> 00:25:40,791
I co-founded with Joe Kerry
and Adrian O'Mahony,
591
00:25:41,125 --> 00:25:42,375
who were in the guitar club with me.
592
00:25:42,625 --> 00:25:44,625
And we just basically, our mantra was,
593
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,625
let's shine a musical light on all
corners of the community.
594
00:25:49,208 --> 00:25:52,250
And we used training I had done
595
00:25:52,375 --> 00:25:56,458
and a few different approaches
to bring that in.
596
00:25:56,458 --> 00:25:58,333
And I partnered up then with Music Generation
597
00:25:58,708 --> 00:26:00,291
and started running programs in the city.
598
00:26:00,875 --> 00:26:04,583
And we did palliative care in
very much hospitals.
599
00:26:04,833 --> 00:26:07,125
We worked in loads of different
healthcare settings
600
00:26:07,125 --> 00:26:11,041
around the city and brought music,
high quality music.
601
00:26:11,875 --> 00:26:14,416
St. Finbarrs Hospital was one of
the most recent projects
602
00:26:14,541 --> 00:26:16,833
we did, it's still running, that's incredible.
603
00:26:17,625 --> 00:26:19,541
So yeah, there was a lot in that.
604
00:26:21,166 --> 00:26:24,791
I know myself, like when I
was in the hospital,
605
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,875
when I was in CUH now and there
was musicians came around
606
00:26:27,875 --> 00:26:32,458
when I was with my child and
it just made us pause
607
00:26:32,458 --> 00:26:34,833
and just maybe not think about
what was going on
608
00:26:35,166 --> 00:26:36,500
with our own situation.
609
00:26:36,916 --> 00:26:38,041
And we just listened to the music
610
00:26:38,041 --> 00:26:39,833
and it was actually lovely, that kind of way.
611
00:26:39,833 --> 00:26:42,791
It was just a nice experience just
to kind of give us time
612
00:26:42,958 --> 00:26:45,708
to just maybe not think about
the health situation
613
00:26:46,125 --> 00:26:47,250
and focus on something different.
614
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:49,250
Yeah, I think there's kind of a,
615
00:26:49,250 --> 00:26:51,208
I think I know where it comes from,
616
00:26:51,208 --> 00:26:53,750
but there's a thing about music or art
617
00:26:53,750 --> 00:26:55,750
where it can aesthetically arrest you,
618
00:26:55,750 --> 00:26:58,333
where you're not looking at it for
any particular reason,
619
00:26:58,333 --> 00:27:00,875
you're just getting a feeling from
it that's inexplicable.
620
00:27:01,208 --> 00:27:02,791
And like you say, the simplicity of it
621
00:27:02,791 --> 00:27:06,083
is taking you away from the core stress
622
00:27:06,083 --> 00:27:08,041
that you're experiencing for no reason
623
00:27:08,041 --> 00:27:10,041
and then you're actually experiencing
something
624
00:27:10,208 --> 00:27:11,791
and an emotion that is evoking
625
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,458
that's a bit less stressful than whatever
you're dealing with.
626
00:27:15,750 --> 00:27:18,291
So it was hugely, I mean, massive thing.
627
00:27:18,541 --> 00:27:19,708
I mean, I loved doing it.
628
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,125
I've taken a break from it because
quite frankly,
629
00:27:22,125 --> 00:27:25,041
I don't, again, it became very difficult
630
00:27:25,041 --> 00:27:28,041
to be in palliative care settings
as often as I want.
631
00:27:28,625 --> 00:27:31,125
Experiencing the level of kind of,
632
00:27:31,958 --> 00:27:33,625
of kind of, I suppose, vulnerability
633
00:27:33,916 --> 00:27:37,000
and stress people are under and trying
to provide the music.
634
00:27:37,291 --> 00:27:38,625
The project is still running.
635
00:27:38,958 --> 00:27:40,500
I'm just not front lining at the moment.
636
00:27:40,541 --> 00:27:42,041
I'm still involved in the organisation.
637
00:27:42,291 --> 00:27:43,708
I'm still involved with Adrian
638
00:27:43,708 --> 00:27:45,166
and setting up the different programs.
639
00:27:45,708 --> 00:27:47,875
And we have musicians working presently
640
00:27:48,333 --> 00:27:51,125
in a few different settings around the city.
641
00:27:51,791 --> 00:27:53,000
And I just don't have the time actually
642
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,166
that it deserves at the moment.
643
00:27:55,416 --> 00:27:57,750
So I'm not able to be there as often as I was.
644
00:27:59,416 --> 00:28:00,916
Taking a step back from it at the moment,
645
00:28:00,916 --> 00:28:02,333
but still behind the scenes as such.
646
00:28:02,375 --> 00:28:04,125
Yeah, no, I definitely go back into it.
647
00:28:04,250 --> 00:28:05,500
It's just, it's full out.
648
00:28:05,708 --> 00:28:07,541
You can't really just take it into play.
649
00:28:07,875 --> 00:28:09,458
You've got to be available to it
650
00:28:09,500 --> 00:28:12,500
and it's something that I love doing
651
00:28:12,500 --> 00:28:15,125
with a heart and a half rather than kind of
652
00:28:15,583 --> 00:28:17,000
not really thinking about something.
653
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:17,625
That's why I'm doing it
654
00:28:17,625 --> 00:28:19,625
or it should be somewhere else
or whatever is going on.
655
00:28:20,041 --> 00:28:21,000
Absolutely, yeah, yeah.
656
00:28:21,500 --> 00:28:23,083
Looking back at the highs and lows
657
00:28:23,291 --> 00:28:25,166
of intense international touring,
658
00:28:25,166 --> 00:28:27,083
what's the most valuable lesson you've learned
659
00:28:27,250 --> 00:28:29,791
about sustaining a long-term creative career?
660
00:28:30,625 --> 00:28:32,541
I just think you make everyday count
661
00:28:32,750 --> 00:28:36,250
and you look after your, you
just try and think,
662
00:28:37,208 --> 00:28:39,166
trying not to get lost in other
people's agendas,
663
00:28:39,666 --> 00:28:44,083
try to kind of like understand
why you're doing it.
664
00:28:44,083 --> 00:28:45,916
Ask yourself why every day.
665
00:28:46,125 --> 00:28:49,000
And even learning to say no
is really a big thing
666
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,041
because we can all say no to things
667
00:28:51,041 --> 00:28:52,041
that we don't want to do.
668
00:28:52,416 --> 00:28:53,875
I think to learn to say no to things
669
00:28:53,875 --> 00:28:56,666
that you might want to do is
something I wish I
670
00:28:56,666 --> 00:28:58,958
was more disciplined about.
671
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,833
Because like if you, the expectation
to be available
672
00:29:04,083 --> 00:29:05,458
as an artist is always there
673
00:29:05,541 --> 00:29:06,791
because people will always think
674
00:29:06,791 --> 00:29:08,208
that you want to be available.
675
00:29:09,083 --> 00:29:10,541
Everything is an opportunity.
676
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,583
Everything is exposure, but you
can die from exposure.
677
00:29:15,625 --> 00:29:18,375
You need to be careful of what you're
exposing yourself to
678
00:29:18,375 --> 00:29:19,791
and who you're exposing yourself to
679
00:29:19,791 --> 00:29:22,125
and always ask yourself who are you around?
680
00:29:23,500 --> 00:29:25,625
Check it out, just have a look and go,
681
00:29:26,041 --> 00:29:28,166
if I wasn't a musician and if I didn't think
682
00:29:28,166 --> 00:29:30,541
that that person could do something
for my career,
683
00:29:31,250 --> 00:29:35,083
would I, they say it was don't
ever be your own,
684
00:29:35,208 --> 00:29:37,583
but you're at the table with people
you wouldn't starve with.
685
00:29:38,458 --> 00:29:42,041
And I think that's a really good
question to ask yourself.
686
00:29:42,958 --> 00:29:44,500
Good one, I don't remember that one now.
687
00:29:44,500 --> 00:29:45,541
That's a good one to remember.
688
00:29:47,291 --> 00:29:49,750
And you're now a member of
the Balincollig-based
689
00:29:49,875 --> 00:29:51,166
Whitehorse guitar Club.
690
00:29:51,416 --> 00:29:53,708
How does the ethos of this collective differ
691
00:29:53,875 --> 00:29:56,125
from the ambition-driven bands of your youth?
692
00:29:57,750 --> 00:30:01,000
Well, I suppose the foundation
of it was very different
693
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:02,791
because you're older, we wrote
it when we started
694
00:30:02,958 --> 00:30:08,083
for a start, so it was more about
having a few points
695
00:30:08,083 --> 00:30:10,000
on the Thursday night and meeting
a few friends
696
00:30:10,208 --> 00:30:11,666
than anything else.
697
00:30:12,125 --> 00:30:15,208
So what it grew into is reactive, I suppose,
698
00:30:15,500 --> 00:30:18,208
because we never really had a plan
for it to be a band.
699
00:30:18,208 --> 00:30:20,541
We still probably won't own up to
the fact that it is a band
700
00:30:20,708 --> 00:30:23,125
because if we did, we'd be admitting defeat.
701
00:30:24,791 --> 00:30:27,500
So I think that it's important
to remember that,
702
00:30:28,291 --> 00:30:31,583
again, we all met, we didn't
really know each other,
703
00:30:31,625 --> 00:30:32,541
one or two that out of stage,
704
00:30:32,875 --> 00:30:35,291
kind of through their kids being in school
705
00:30:35,291 --> 00:30:39,458
and things like that, but it was
just a very simple plan
706
00:30:39,833 --> 00:30:42,000
at the start to meet on a Thursday
and play music.
707
00:30:42,291 --> 00:30:44,125
And what it's turned into is completely,
708
00:30:44,500 --> 00:30:45,875
if we had planned that, we'd be geniuses.
709
00:30:47,041 --> 00:30:50,500
So we've had to kind of just
ride the wave of it
710
00:30:50,541 --> 00:30:51,958
and enjoy the fun of it.
711
00:30:52,500 --> 00:30:55,833
Absolutely, and you recently
released a new album,
712
00:30:56,083 --> 00:30:56,708
"Sus beag."
713
00:30:56,833 --> 00:30:58,208
What's the energy like when you perform
714
00:30:58,500 --> 00:31:01,583
these soulful reinterpretations of Americana
715
00:31:01,583 --> 00:31:02,500
and Irish folk life?
716
00:31:04,458 --> 00:31:06,875
I mean, I've just come off the
back of a few days away.
717
00:31:07,666 --> 00:31:10,750
The way it's landing with people is,
718
00:31:11,333 --> 00:31:12,791
I don't really understand it, I'll be honest.
719
00:31:13,041 --> 00:31:15,166
I don't, like I kind of do in the sense
720
00:31:15,166 --> 00:31:17,291
that I can see the appeal of it
721
00:31:17,291 --> 00:31:20,666
and I can understand the reason it's landing,
722
00:31:20,958 --> 00:31:23,458
but it's a very, it's kind of like,
723
00:31:24,833 --> 00:31:26,625
it's just the music we play, I guess.
724
00:31:26,666 --> 00:31:28,333
And I suppose a lot of it might be just,
725
00:31:28,791 --> 00:31:31,416
people are saying it's the 11
male voices together.
726
00:31:31,416 --> 00:31:34,291
It's the fact that it's built
on something other than,
727
00:31:34,916 --> 00:31:36,333
you know, a career and all this.
728
00:31:36,333 --> 00:31:40,000
It's just a very organic, unusual, you know,
729
00:31:40,458 --> 00:31:41,833
AI couldn't do it, put that.
730
00:31:43,625 --> 00:31:45,916
You know, if people are worried about AI,
731
00:31:45,916 --> 00:31:47,541
you just form a guitar club, you'll be grand.
732
00:31:48,083 --> 00:31:49,000
That's good, that's good.
733
00:31:49,625 --> 00:31:51,375
And now talking about your book,
734
00:31:51,666 --> 00:31:53,583
"All Rules Lead to Where You Are,"
735
00:31:53,583 --> 00:31:55,500
was written after a doctor's warning for us
736
00:31:55,541 --> 00:31:56,291
to slow down.
737
00:31:56,708 --> 00:31:58,875
What was it like to pause and finally kind of
738
00:31:58,875 --> 00:32:01,333
write your own story down at
that specific moment?
739
00:32:02,166 --> 00:32:04,000
Well, like in one sense,
740
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:05,333
it probably sounds a bit dramatic,
741
00:32:05,333 --> 00:32:07,416
but it was the combination of things.
742
00:32:07,416 --> 00:32:09,000
Really, I was going at full tilt
743
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,208
and I wasn't really doing anything for myself,
744
00:32:12,625 --> 00:32:15,458
other than, you know, like things
you do for yourself.
745
00:32:15,458 --> 00:32:17,333
But like, I wasn't actively thinking about,
746
00:32:18,125 --> 00:32:19,791
it was all go, go, go, yes, yes.
747
00:32:19,791 --> 00:32:22,958
Again, falling into the trap of
availability and busyness.
748
00:32:23,125 --> 00:32:26,291
And, you know, I was 50 and I
was kind of like going,
749
00:32:27,416 --> 00:32:28,875
and it was actually my wife kind of said,
750
00:32:28,875 --> 00:32:30,625
look, you know, would you just not think
751
00:32:30,625 --> 00:32:31,583
about writing something?
752
00:32:32,166 --> 00:32:34,541
Like, because I knew I could put together
753
00:32:34,583 --> 00:32:36,291
word salad and serve it up,
754
00:32:36,958 --> 00:32:38,208
but there's a big difference between
755
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:40,208
being able to juggle words around
756
00:32:41,625 --> 00:32:43,541
or sit down and actually write something
757
00:32:44,666 --> 00:32:47,500
that has an arc and that can, you know,
758
00:32:47,500 --> 00:32:50,208
reach people on a level that isn't just you
759
00:32:50,291 --> 00:32:52,833
talking about yourself in a way that's linear.
760
00:32:53,750 --> 00:32:55,083
So I wasn't sure if I could do that.
761
00:32:56,500 --> 00:32:59,250
And everyone says, people say there's
a book in everyone
762
00:32:59,416 --> 00:33:01,958
and some people would say that's
where it should stay.
763
00:33:03,625 --> 00:33:06,500
And then what happened was I just
took the first step,
764
00:33:06,958 --> 00:33:09,416
which was to kind of have a chat.
765
00:33:09,541 --> 00:33:11,625
I actually, I just literally hadn't been,
766
00:33:11,958 --> 00:33:14,250
I went to my GP and I wasn't feeling great
767
00:33:14,416 --> 00:33:15,583
for no particular reason.
768
00:33:15,583 --> 00:33:18,416
And he just said, you're just
completely burnt out.
769
00:33:18,916 --> 00:33:21,083
And I was like, here I am again,
I can't believe I'm,
770
00:33:21,500 --> 00:33:23,541
and he said, like, look, give me your week.
771
00:33:23,875 --> 00:33:26,083
And I told him and he said, well,
something has to give.
772
00:33:27,333 --> 00:33:30,625
So think of your priorities and what they are.
773
00:33:31,208 --> 00:33:34,250
And do you want to be around for them
774
00:33:34,250 --> 00:33:36,291
in 10 or 15 years time, healthily?
775
00:33:36,625 --> 00:33:38,166
And I was like, well, obviously yes.
776
00:33:38,166 --> 00:33:41,375
And he said, this zone you're
in is not going to feed
777
00:33:41,375 --> 00:33:43,500
that possibility very well.
778
00:33:44,458 --> 00:33:48,000
So what you're, the decisions
you're making now
779
00:33:48,208 --> 00:33:51,500
are the best version or worst version
of your tomorrow's self.
780
00:33:52,208 --> 00:33:55,000
So that was the kick I needed to kind of go,
781
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:56,416
but then it just meant reassessing
782
00:33:56,416 --> 00:33:59,416
and having a chat withMusic Aoibheann
783
00:33:59,416 --> 00:34:03,375
and getting her support on trying to do that,
784
00:34:03,375 --> 00:34:07,041
this book thing, which took up
time and without her,
785
00:34:07,041 --> 00:34:08,000
I wouldn't have been able to do it.
786
00:34:08,291 --> 00:34:10,166
I would have her support, you
know, just to say,
787
00:34:10,375 --> 00:34:11,208
I just do it.
788
00:34:11,208 --> 00:34:13,000
And I did it without any plan.
789
00:34:13,333 --> 00:34:15,583
And I'm glad I did it because
that story was in me
790
00:34:15,708 --> 00:34:17,291
for so long.
791
00:34:17,833 --> 00:34:20,333
And, you know, I didn't really talk about it
792
00:34:20,333 --> 00:34:21,083
unless I was asked.
793
00:34:21,500 --> 00:34:22,916
And then you find when you were asked
794
00:34:23,458 --> 00:34:24,541
and you started talking about it,
795
00:34:24,541 --> 00:34:25,791
people were actually interested
796
00:34:27,083 --> 00:34:29,458
and they'd actually be asking you
to talk more about it.
797
00:34:29,458 --> 00:34:30,708
So I'd be
like, you'd be embarrassed
798
00:34:30,916 --> 00:34:32,958
by the sound of your own voice.
799
00:34:32,958 --> 00:34:36,500
And, but eventually just going
to the page and,
800
00:34:37,791 --> 00:34:39,833
you know, if I had to do it right now, again,
801
00:34:39,833 --> 00:34:40,500
I don't think I could.
802
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:45,000
I think it was one of experience for me
803
00:34:45,375 --> 00:34:47,750
not the writing, but that particular story.
804
00:34:48,208 --> 00:34:49,416
So to get it down on paper.
805
00:34:49,666 --> 00:34:52,708
And the big relief for me was that
the lads in the band
806
00:34:53,666 --> 00:34:56,208
were all, they all messaged me,
or should I see them?
807
00:34:56,416 --> 00:34:58,125
And they were, once they read it,
808
00:34:58,125 --> 00:34:59,833
they were really happy that they had done it
809
00:34:59,833 --> 00:35:01,000
on their behalf as well.
810
00:35:02,083 --> 00:35:05,250
Like Owen had said, I don't want
to misquote him now,
811
00:35:05,250 --> 00:35:07,625
but he said to me something along the lines of
812
00:35:07,625 --> 00:35:10,666
that he would be proud to give it
to his mom and his daughter
813
00:35:10,958 --> 00:35:12,500
because that it just explains
814
00:35:13,541 --> 00:35:16,208
what the hell he was doing for
that period of time
815
00:35:16,500 --> 00:35:18,666
in a way that he mightn't have been
able to explain himself.
816
00:35:19,333 --> 00:35:20,375
I think that's what he said.
817
00:35:21,583 --> 00:35:24,791
So that was as valuable to me
as anything, you know,
818
00:35:24,791 --> 00:35:26,750
just that the people that I spoke about in it,
819
00:35:27,250 --> 00:35:29,541
that they were happy with how it was told.
820
00:35:30,458 --> 00:35:32,125
And it's great to kind of leave that,
821
00:35:32,500 --> 00:35:34,750
sometimes stories get lost, you know,
822
00:35:34,750 --> 00:35:38,666
and it's great to like for your family
and for the bandmates,
823
00:35:38,666 --> 00:35:41,250
I think families as well, just
have a bit of a legacy.
824
00:35:41,583 --> 00:35:42,625
It's written down there.
825
00:35:43,166 --> 00:35:46,833
That's kind of a synopsis of what our life was
826
00:35:46,833 --> 00:35:48,500
at that particular moment in time.
827
00:35:49,500 --> 00:35:50,000
Yeah, absolutely.
828
00:35:50,416 --> 00:35:52,416
And I think what I enjoyed as
well about the book
829
00:35:52,416 --> 00:35:54,666
was writing about the time it happened.
830
00:35:55,125 --> 00:35:55,916
You know, and the places,
831
00:35:56,875 --> 00:35:58,958
like the describing what Boston was like
832
00:35:59,333 --> 00:36:02,458
when we arrived, describing what
Cork was like when we left.
833
00:36:03,541 --> 00:36:06,125
And then the places we went, just, you know,
834
00:36:06,125 --> 00:36:08,125
the best advice I got at the start of it was
835
00:36:08,333 --> 00:36:10,041
don't tell people, show people.
836
00:36:10,250 --> 00:36:13,000
Like just show people what it was.
837
00:36:13,208 --> 00:36:15,875
And I was able to do that, I think, you know,
838
00:36:16,083 --> 00:36:18,125
so that which was great discovery for me
839
00:36:18,125 --> 00:36:21,458
that I can actually translate those
pictures into words.
840
00:36:22,333 --> 00:36:24,666
And it's great, I think when you're
reading a book like that,
841
00:36:24,666 --> 00:36:28,000
like I read the Foo Fighters,
Steve Grohl's book
842
00:36:28,500 --> 00:36:30,750
and it just brought me back, you know,
843
00:36:30,750 --> 00:36:33,375
to that time when I was that particular age,
844
00:36:33,375 --> 00:36:34,541
I was really into their music.
845
00:36:35,083 --> 00:36:37,666
And it just made, I couldn't put
down the book, you know,
846
00:36:37,708 --> 00:36:41,291
because it just brought me
right back in a way,
847
00:36:41,291 --> 00:36:42,750
like if I watched something on television,
848
00:36:43,375 --> 00:36:44,041
I wouldn't have experienced
849
00:36:44,041 --> 00:36:46,125
because I was remembering my own feelings
850
00:36:46,541 --> 00:36:48,041
when I was reading the book, you know.
851
00:36:48,041 --> 00:36:50,750
So that's the one, I think I think
about a book like yours,
852
00:36:51,250 --> 00:36:54,083
it just brings you back really
well to that moment
853
00:36:54,083 --> 00:36:57,708
when you listen to the songs
or at the same time,
854
00:36:57,708 --> 00:37:00,875
you know, I feel it's really, brings it real,
855
00:37:00,875 --> 00:37:04,333
makes it real and makes you
back in time as such.
856
00:37:05,125 --> 00:37:06,916
Absolutely, and that's the beauty of words
857
00:37:07,125 --> 00:37:09,666
and stories which we need to
hang on to actually,
858
00:37:09,666 --> 00:37:12,666
I think not my story or everyone's story.
859
00:37:12,916 --> 00:37:15,250
You know, I think that if you
even think there about,
860
00:37:15,958 --> 00:37:17,958
like, I don't know if you've
had any relationships
861
00:37:17,958 --> 00:37:19,416
with older people in your family,
862
00:37:19,416 --> 00:37:21,333
or they might be gone now or whatever,
863
00:37:21,333 --> 00:37:23,958
and if you didn't have their stories
or their memory,
864
00:37:24,750 --> 00:37:25,458
what would you have?
865
00:37:25,916 --> 00:37:28,958
And if we get sucked into this nonsense
866
00:37:28,958 --> 00:37:33,750
that we're in right now, more
and more and more,
867
00:37:33,750 --> 00:37:35,083
so what are people gonna be talking about?
868
00:37:35,375 --> 00:37:38,208
Like what's the, like this thing,
869
00:37:38,541 --> 00:37:40,875
I know now it's a cliche to
even talk about it,
870
00:37:40,875 --> 00:37:42,458
but the AI thing, for example,
871
00:37:42,458 --> 00:37:46,000
AI is only based on what we've,
as a human race have done.
872
00:37:47,375 --> 00:37:50,500
It's not based on what we're going to do.
873
00:37:51,833 --> 00:37:55,458
So unless we keep, which is why
it was really important
874
00:37:55,458 --> 00:38:00,625
for people like Moncon McGann
and
people like Martin Shaw
875
00:38:00,833 --> 00:38:04,333
and people like, you know, Ian McGillcrest
876
00:38:04,541 --> 00:38:08,916
and all of these people who are
really acutely aware
877
00:38:09,166 --> 00:38:13,083
of the connection, and Irish people
have such an advantage
878
00:38:13,250 --> 00:38:15,875
here because our landscape tells the story.
879
00:38:16,958 --> 00:38:21,791
You know, I was in the Burren in Clare
over the last few days,
880
00:38:21,791 --> 00:38:24,583
I was looking at the walls and I was thinking,
881
00:38:25,083 --> 00:38:26,750
you know, every single one of those stones
882
00:38:26,750 --> 00:38:27,916
was put there by a hand.
883
00:38:28,750 --> 00:38:31,458
And I was thinking that there's
lines and those walls
884
00:38:31,666 --> 00:38:34,041
were one generation handed it over to another.
885
00:38:35,291 --> 00:38:38,125
And you could look at it and go,
it's just a wall, you know,
886
00:38:38,375 --> 00:38:40,208
but to me, it's not.
887
00:38:40,708 --> 00:38:43,291
To me, it's a thousand stories and to me,
888
00:38:43,291 --> 00:38:47,875
it's care and it's dignity and it's longevity
889
00:38:48,291 --> 00:38:50,541
and it's history and it's all of the things
890
00:38:50,541 --> 00:38:54,500
that probably might not resonate
with everybody,
891
00:38:54,791 --> 00:38:57,083
but thankfully I'm getting the sense
892
00:38:57,083 --> 00:38:58,916
that younger people aren't buying the pup.
893
00:38:59,666 --> 00:38:59,875
Yeah.
894
00:39:00,958 --> 00:39:03,000
I think there's a bit of a
change, isn't there?
895
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:03,458
I think so.
896
00:39:03,708 --> 00:39:06,041
Yeah, I've gotten that vibe now.
897
00:39:06,041 --> 00:39:08,041
There's a bit of a change, which
is a good thing.
898
00:39:08,541 --> 00:39:09,333
Yeah, I think so.
899
00:39:09,333 --> 00:39:11,333
I think the old folk have it sussed.
900
00:39:12,583 --> 00:39:13,750
I think it's people like me.
901
00:39:14,541 --> 00:39:15,916
(both laughing)
902
00:39:16,833 --> 00:39:19,666
And as a songwriter, I cost
him to convey emotion
903
00:39:19,916 --> 00:39:20,875
in just a few minutes.
904
00:39:21,208 --> 00:39:23,625
How did you find the solitary process
905
00:39:23,625 --> 00:39:25,916
of writing a full-length book
and did you enjoy it?
906
00:39:26,750 --> 00:39:27,500
Yes and no.
907
00:39:28,291 --> 00:39:32,208
I loved it and being exposed
every day to people
908
00:39:32,416 --> 00:39:36,041
in all sorts of situations, whether
it was hospital schools,
909
00:39:36,666 --> 00:39:40,291
touring audiences, always, it was incredible
910
00:39:40,541 --> 00:39:43,041
to just be in silence for, you know,
911
00:39:43,041 --> 00:39:44,416
I used to get up at half, six in the morning,
912
00:39:45,125 --> 00:39:49,000
every morning, five mornings a week
and work until half 12,
913
00:39:50,583 --> 00:39:52,583
take a break at 11, maybe for a
cup of tea or something,
914
00:39:52,958 --> 00:39:55,291
go for a walk kind of for an
hour and then come back
915
00:39:55,291 --> 00:39:56,625
and kind of just look at what I had done
916
00:39:56,791 --> 00:39:59,416
and see did it make sense or did it, what,
917
00:39:59,416 --> 00:40:02,000
if it needed work and I'd spend
a couple of days then
918
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:03,916
working on the work I thought it needed
919
00:40:04,041 --> 00:40:05,208
and all that kind of stuff.
920
00:40:05,541 --> 00:40:06,250
So it was lovely.
921
00:40:06,583 --> 00:40:08,666
It was really cool and amazing.
922
00:40:08,958 --> 00:40:10,583
And silence actually is a huge,
923
00:40:11,750 --> 00:40:13,291
when you enter into that discipline
924
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:15,500
then it's always discipline over motivation
925
00:40:15,875 --> 00:40:17,958
because motivation was just too quickly gone
926
00:40:17,958 --> 00:40:20,125
and it's a cheap trick.
927
00:40:20,541 --> 00:40:23,458
Whereas discipline, you're gonna get days
928
00:40:23,458 --> 00:40:25,875
where I found the beginning of the book
929
00:40:26,083 --> 00:40:27,750
particularly hard to crack.
930
00:40:28,833 --> 00:40:30,458
And it was just took me ages.
931
00:40:30,833 --> 00:40:32,916
So I started at the end and worked backwards.
932
00:40:32,916 --> 00:40:33,458
That's what I did.
933
00:40:34,458 --> 00:40:38,208
So the silence and solitude
part of it was lovely.
934
00:40:38,958 --> 00:40:41,750
The only issue I had was you were
living in your own head
935
00:40:43,041 --> 00:40:46,083
at night then, you know, it
was really difficult
936
00:40:46,250 --> 00:40:48,041
because you had no, you had not,
937
00:40:48,541 --> 00:40:49,625
there were days where I hadn't spoken.
938
00:40:50,375 --> 00:40:52,333
And it'd be just eight o'clock at night
939
00:40:52,333 --> 00:40:54,000
when I was sitting down for dinner
or seven o'clock.
940
00:40:54,458 --> 00:40:55,375
First thing you have a conversation
941
00:40:55,666 --> 00:40:57,916
and you were thinking about tomorrow's
942
00:40:57,916 --> 00:40:59,041
what you're gonna do in the morning.
943
00:40:59,041 --> 00:41:00,166
And it was all in your own head.
944
00:41:00,916 --> 00:41:02,041
And it didn't exist yet.
945
00:41:02,375 --> 00:41:04,458
It was, and I had that wobble
946
00:41:04,458 --> 00:41:06,500
where I realised halfway through it,
947
00:41:07,166 --> 00:41:08,916
oh shit, like I'm one of these dudes
948
00:41:09,666 --> 00:41:12,000
who's writing the book that
might not come out.
949
00:41:14,416 --> 00:41:15,041
Imagine that.
950
00:41:15,666 --> 00:41:16,041
I know.
951
00:41:16,958 --> 00:41:19,791
(laughs) And like, oh my, show of a
disaster that would have been.
952
00:41:20,583 --> 00:41:22,000
And that was a terrifying bit.
953
00:41:22,250 --> 00:41:23,625
So like to have it on the shelf
954
00:41:23,833 --> 00:41:25,666
and to have it out there and
have people buying it
955
00:41:25,666 --> 00:41:27,333
and have people talking to me about it now.
956
00:41:28,333 -->
00:41:31,416
And I look back and I think it
was such a privilege
957
00:41:31,833 --> 00:41:32,750
to be able to do that.
958
00:41:34,166 --> 00:41:38,291
And, you know, I'm not doing it at the moment
959
00:41:38,291 --> 00:41:41,125
in the same disciplined way
that I was doing that.
960
00:41:41,125 --> 00:41:42,375
I am writing at the moment
961
00:41:42,375 --> 00:41:44,791
and I'm working on different things.
962
00:41:45,583 --> 00:41:47,750
But I kind of have a craving to do that again,
963
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:52,791
just to get back into just being
that dude is terrified
964
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:54,250
but not putting a book out.
965
00:41:54,666 --> 00:41:57,416
But the intense pressure is a great
motivation, isn't it?
966
00:41:57,416 --> 00:41:59,458
Like it's, it's addictive, I suppose.
967
00:41:59,458 --> 00:42:01,625
It's a bit of a, like, and when
you have it finished,
968
00:42:01,625 --> 00:42:02,500
you must have been like,
969
00:42:03,458 --> 00:42:06,166
you know, I've it done, like
what an accomplishment.
970
00:42:07,041 --> 00:42:09,000
To be honest about it, it wasn't
until I held it,
971
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:14,375
which makes the whole digital versus
kind of tactile thing
972
00:42:14,625 --> 00:42:17,250
such a huge, and a book in itself has so much,
973
00:42:17,250 --> 00:42:18,666
like when I buy books, I don't,
974
00:42:18,666 --> 00:42:20,000
I'm not buying a book, I'm buying time.
975
00:42:21,166 --> 00:42:24,375
Then that book, I read it when
I get to Ballyferriter
976
00:42:24,625 --> 00:42:27,583
in the summer, I'm going to take
some time to spend on this.
977
00:42:27,583 --> 00:42:29,416
Or if I take an hour at a day
to read something,
978
00:42:29,416 --> 00:42:31,708
it's time you're taking to
do something that's,
979
00:42:32,250 --> 00:42:34,458
but for me, when I actually
hold way to the book,
980
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:36,416
I still get a buzz out of it, you know,
981
00:42:36,416 --> 00:42:38,291
I still get, or if I see it in the shop
982
00:42:38,291 --> 00:42:42,291
or if someone buys it at a show or
tells me they bought it,
983
00:42:42,458 --> 00:42:44,833
that's huge because that means
it's real, you know?
984
00:42:45,416 --> 00:42:48,041
Like with all due respect to
anyone who's writing,
985
00:42:48,541 --> 00:42:51,416
when I was that person, it isn't
a book till it's out there.
986
00:42:51,958 --> 00:42:54,000
It's not a book until someone
else has read it,
987
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:54,791
that's my view.
988
00:42:55,541 --> 00:42:58,000
And I know that sounds a bit harsh,
but it's the truth.
989
00:42:58,458 --> 00:42:58,875
You're out of here.
990
00:42:58,958 --> 00:43:00,958
Your album isn't an album if
it's on a hard drive.
991
00:43:01,250 --> 00:43:05,166
You know, it's yours, you did it, absolutely.
992
00:43:06,250 --> 00:43:09,458
And there's a huge amount of merit
in the creative process.
993
00:43:09,708 --> 00:43:12,875
And I know a lot of artists
spend a lot of
time
994
00:43:12,958 --> 00:43:14,833
overthinking their work into non-existence.
995
00:43:15,833 --> 00:43:19,250
And I just think to be careful of
that is really important.
996
00:43:19,250 --> 00:43:21,333
And to kind of, I suppose there's
that you have to be
997
00:43:21,333 --> 00:43:23,125
a little bit brave to kind of
put yourself out there.
998
00:43:23,625 --> 00:43:25,333
And there was a great story I heard one time
999
00:43:25,333 --> 00:43:27,458
of an architect who designed
a mosque, I think.
1000
00:43:27,958 --> 00:43:30,000
And it was the most perfect
mosque in the world,
1001
00:43:30,583 --> 00:43:31,125
by all accounts.
1002
00:43:31,750 --> 00:43:35,083
And in his mind, he thought, well,
I can't let this happen
1003
00:43:35,083 --> 00:43:36,041
because I know they're gonna,
1004
00:43:36,875 --> 00:43:39,083
they're not gonna fully realize what it is.
1005
00:43:39,291 --> 00:43:41,916
So he burned the plans and never built it.
1006
00:43:43,291 --> 00:43:44,375
Which is what a lot of us do.
1007
00:43:45,666 --> 00:43:48,333
And you recently released a companion single
1008
00:43:48,458 --> 00:43:51,541
to the memoir featuring Lee Mook,
Fitzgerald and McSpire,
1009
00:43:51,791 --> 00:43:53,791
Ruby Horse bandmate, Declan Lucy.
1010
00:43:54,416 --> 00:43:56,041
Why was it so important to collaborate
1011
00:43:56,250 --> 00:43:58,250
with those specific Cork musicians
1012
00:43:58,458 --> 00:43:59,541
on such a personal project?
1013
00:44:01,083 --> 00:44:05,333
The truth of it is that they were both exactly
the right people for the job.
1014
00:44:06,083 --> 00:44:09,625
The song is a kind of a song that is basically
1015
00:44:09,625 --> 00:44:12,875
about the book and the character
being me who was
1016
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,958
on those roads. I know what I was listening
to last night going,
1017
00:44:16,458 --> 00:44:18,666
"If this didn't happen, it would
be a crock of shit."
1018
00:44:20,208 --> 00:44:24,250
It did happen. And I'm wondering how
people listened to it going,
1019
00:44:24,291 --> 00:44:32,583
not realizing that this happened. Liam's voice
just encompasses that character.
1020
00:44:32,958 --> 00:44:38,833
I don't have that voice. Even I know loads of
great singers, but Liam has a particular
1021
00:44:39,708 --> 00:44:45,583
delivery. When I played it myself and did my demo
of it, I just said, "That's Liam." I can
1022
00:44:45,583 --> 00:44:50,750
hear him. I sent it to him. Thankfully, Liam
liked it. He said, "I'd love to sing it."
1023
00:44:50,833 --> 00:44:54,750
That was that. Deckie then is just a very,
very talented engineer, producer,
1024
00:44:55,458 --> 00:45:00,416
who lives two miles up the road from me. I
love working with him. He's brilliant.
1025
00:45:00,916 --> 00:45:07,416
The sound he has that he gets, he's a kind
of non-discovered treasure, actually,
1026
00:45:07,666 --> 00:45:10,166
around Cork and Ireland. Because he has that
1027
00:45:10,166 --> 00:45:13,583
real... When I worked with producers
in the States,
1028
00:45:15,041 --> 00:45:17,458
the good ones, they have this
thing they do. He
1029
00:45:17,458 --> 00:45:19,208
has that because that's where
he cut his chops.
1030
00:45:19,250 --> 00:45:23,041
So he understands that sound that it was after
1031
00:45:23,041 --> 00:45:27,583
very easily. It was a match
made in heaven, so...
1032
00:45:28,250 --> 00:45:29,750
It was a match.
1033
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:37,625
Your memoir is fundamentally about risk and
reinvention. What advice would you give to
1034
00:45:37,625 --> 00:45:41,791
other Cork creatives who find themselves facing
a major crossroads in their own careers?
1035
00:45:42,750 --> 00:45:46,375
Well, I'd be very slow to give
anyone advice because...
1036
00:45:47,583 --> 00:45:50,500
But what I can say is that if I was talking to
1037
00:45:50,500 --> 00:45:53,250
my younger self or if I was
giving myself advice,
1038
00:45:54,083 --> 00:45:59,833
I just think to be as prolific as you can be and
to be as productive as you can be without
1039
00:45:59,958 --> 00:46:04,666
gatekeeping your own ideas to the point
of them not existing, I think...
1040
00:46:05,625 --> 00:46:12,708
Take risks, you know, and don't be afraid of
validation or otherwise because there's an
1041
00:46:12,708 --> 00:46:16,708
attachment thing. Like if you're swimming and you've
got an eight foot rope and you tie it to
1042
00:46:16,708 --> 00:46:19,291
someone else's ankles and hands,
if they go down,
1043
00:46:19,291 --> 00:46:21,500
you're going to go down with
them. So if you can
1044
00:46:21,958 --> 00:46:25,000
swim on your own, you'd be
grand. And the sharks
1045
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,583
and the stuff, the waves and
things you encounter
1046
00:46:28,208 --> 00:46:31,833
are only part of the story.
So invent your story,
1047
00:46:32,083 --> 00:46:34,625
earn your name, you know, go
out and kind of like
1048
00:46:35,583 --> 00:46:42,833
be the person you actually think you might
find interesting by taking chances, by
1049
00:46:43,500 --> 00:46:49,583
putting yourself out there and not really giving
a shit what anybody thinks, if you can.
1050
00:46:50,375 --> 00:46:55,375
Fair enough. And you've experienced both international
charts success and the quiet
1051
00:46:55,500 --> 00:47:00,416
intimacy of community music. How did you define
personal and creative success today?
1052
00:47:00,750 --> 00:47:07,250
It's about the process and getting it over the
line. If you decide you want to do something,
1053
00:47:07,583 --> 00:47:12,875
forget about the numbers. Forget about the applause.
Doesn't really matter. Because what
1054
00:47:12,875 --> 00:47:17,375
people say about you are how people react to
success. Success is measured in...
1055
00:47:18,708 --> 00:47:23,208
The thing that I find hilarious, right, is the
odd time people come up to me and say,
1056
00:47:23,791 --> 00:47:26,083
"Jesus, it's an awful shame that she never
made it." And I kind
of in my head go,
1057
00:47:26,666 --> 00:47:34,791
"I made it every day. I got up every day, still
do, and do exactly what I want to do."
1058
00:47:35,583 --> 00:47:40,125
And that to me is success. Some
people would view
1059
00:47:40,125 --> 00:47:41,958
it as how many zeros are in
their bank account or
1060
00:47:41,958 --> 00:47:45,791
walking a car they drive or
how many people like
1061
00:47:45,791 --> 00:47:49,625
them on Instagram. So if you're
going to attach
1062
00:47:49,625 --> 00:47:52,583
your definition of success to that, you're
1063
00:47:52,583 --> 00:47:53,458
always going to fail because
it'll never be enough.
1064
00:47:53,708 --> 00:47:58,416
Because it'll never be enough. I heard the
story recently of a guy who was on
1065
00:47:59,333 --> 00:48:05,833
Richard Branson's island at this party that
he gives or used to give once a year
1066
00:48:06,750 --> 00:48:10,791
to celebrate success. And the guy that was out
there apparently is a multimillionaire,
1067
00:48:10,791 --> 00:48:16,916
but he came back completely disillusioned and pissed
off with himself because everybody else on the
1068
00:48:16,916 --> 00:48:19,083
island was a billionaire or
something ridiculous
1069
00:48:19,083 --> 00:48:22,291
like that. So that's one way
you measure success.
1070
00:48:23,791 --> 00:48:26,458
I still talk to my friends, I have my health,
I have a beautiful family,
1071
00:48:27,125 --> 00:48:35,083
I'm fine. That's it for me, you know. So between
the launch of your memoir, the new single,
1072
00:48:35,083 --> 00:48:37,083
and your ongoing community work, what excites
1073
00:48:37,083 --> 00:48:39,708
you most about this next chapter
of your journey?
1074
00:48:41,166 --> 00:48:43,291
Well, just to be able to continue to do it and
1075
00:48:43,291 --> 00:48:47,083
the writing side of it, I'm
only a baby in terms
1076
00:48:47,166 --> 00:48:54,291
of that because I have nothing interesting to
say at 53. I don't know about that now.
1077
00:48:55,291 --> 00:48:59,791
So imagine when you're 80, what you could say.
So it's just to kind of develop,
1078
00:49:00,916 --> 00:49:06,500
I love the craft of things, you know, I love
making things. I'm not really good at DIY,
1079
00:49:06,958 --> 00:49:10,083
but I can make other things. And I love that
1080
00:49:10,083 --> 00:49:13,041
feeling of creating things and
being in a studio,
1081
00:49:13,166 --> 00:49:16,458
recording music, writing music,
seeing the idea
1082
00:49:16,458 --> 00:49:18,458
that you had in your head come
into existence in
1083
00:49:18,458 --> 00:49:22,083
a way that, you know, that
just is even hearing
1084
00:49:22,083 --> 00:49:24,000
the sound. It's kind of cool
that I don't sing it
1085
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:26,041
because when I hear it, it
kind of doesn't even
1086
00:49:26,041 --> 00:49:29,500
feel like mine. So I can, you
know, I can kind of
1087
00:49:29,500 --> 00:49:33,250
listen to it and go, did I do that? So I love
1088
00:49:33,250 --> 00:49:35,500
that. I always have actually, you
know, even when I was
1089
00:49:35,500 --> 00:49:38,000
younger, I loved being in the studio. I loved
1090
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:40,166
kind of going in and doing your
take and coming back
1091
00:49:40,208 --> 00:49:41,958
into the room and listening
to it all just come
1092
00:49:41,958 --> 00:49:44,500
together. So the idea of that being an ongoing
1093
00:49:44,541 --> 00:49:49,541
thing, the possibility of that being an ongoing
thing is very exciting actually still.
1094
00:49:50,916 --> 00:49:53,083
It sounds like you're enjoying
myself here, please.
1095
00:49:54,291 --> 00:49:58,375
Yeah, well, like there's there challenges, you
know, I mean, the book thing hasn't been easy
1096
00:49:58,375 --> 00:50:03,625
into in terms of having to the business side of
it, you know, what you have to do to kind of
1097
00:50:03,666 --> 00:50:10,500
make people aware of it. And that hasn't been,
oh, yes, I can enjoy talking to you. And I'm
1098
00:50:10,500 --> 00:50:12,833
enjoying the conversations
around it. But like,
1099
00:50:13,416 --> 00:50:15,833
you know, there are realities
you have to face up
1100
00:50:15,833 --> 00:50:18,916
to. And similarly with all creative projects,
1101
00:50:19,083 --> 00:50:21,375
there's the way you let go of
it in terms of what
1102
00:50:21,375 --> 00:50:23,291
it isn't in terms of creativity,
and you have to
1103
00:50:23,291 --> 00:50:25,708
get into the promotional side
of it. That can be
1104
00:50:25,708 --> 00:50:28,541
challenging as well, for sure.
Okay, well, thanks
1105
00:50:28,541 --> 00:50:30,500
so much, Joe, for joining us
on the Cork Creative
1106
00:50:30,583 --> 00:50:33,458
Podcast. If you want to find
out more about Joe,
1107
00:50:33,458 --> 00:50:36,125
his new memoir, and his music,
you can find links on
1108
00:50:36,125 --> 00:50:38,291
corkcreative.ie
1109
00:50:38,291 --> 00:50:39,791
Thanks very much for having
1110
00:50:39,791 --> 00:50:42,583
me. Appreciate the conversation.
And yeah, thank you.