บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ 483 - Why accessibility should be every WordPress developer’s priority with Danielle Zarcaro

<00:03:24.238>that <00:03:24.738>you <00:03:24.878>enjoy <00:03:25.158>it. 8 00:03:25.918 --> 00:03:30.438 I <00:03:26.398>am <00:03:26.578>joined <00:03:26.958>on <00:03:27.198>the <00:03:27.318>podcast <00:03:27.698>by <00:03:28.098>Danielle <00:03:28.578>Zarcaro. <00:03:29.958>Hello, <00:03:30.218>Danielle. 9 00:03:31.278 --> 00:03:31.758 Hello. 10 00:03:32.318 --> 00:03:58.939 We've <00:03:32.758>been <00:03:32.838>putting <00:03:33.018>the <00:03:33.158>world <00:03:33.378>to <00:03:33.538>rights. <00:03:33.958>We've <00:03:34.018>been <00:03:34.118>learning <00:03:34.458>about <00:03:34.778>the <00:03:35.018>way <00:03:35.218>Elizabethan <00:03:35.898>English <00:03:36.338>sounds <00:03:36.698>and <00:03:36.938>all <00:03:37.138>sorts <00:03:37.458>of <00:03:37.578>things <00:03:37.878>in <00:03:38.158>the <00:03:38.678>background. <00:03:39.098>And <00:03:39.178>the <00:03:39.258>way <00:03:39.378>the <00:03:39.598>internet <00:03:39.858>gets <00:03:40.178>used. <00:03:40.718>Oh, <00:03:41.078>we <00:03:41.298>had <00:03:41.418>a <00:03:41.498>whole <00:03:41.678>conversation <00:03:42.218>about <00:03:42.438>how <00:03:42.618>the <00:03:42.758>internet <00:03:43.038>works. <00:03:43.538>It's <00:03:43.698>a <00:03:43.998>miracle. <00:03:44.378>But <00:03:44.798>that's <00:03:45.018>not <00:03:45.318>why <00:03:45.598>we're <00:03:45.778>here <00:03:45.918>today. <00:03:46.778>Danielle <00:03:47.038>is <00:03:47.318>joining <00:03:47.538>us. <00:03:47.938>I <00:03:48.198>think <00:03:48.418>it's <00:03:48.638>probably <00:03:48.958>fair <00:03:49.198>to <00:03:49.318>say <00:03:49.438>that <00:03:49.558>the <00:03:49.638>conversation <00:03:50.098>will <00:03:50.318>center <00:03:51.258>around <00:03:51.778>accessibility. <00:03:53.019>And <00:03:53.319>those <00:03:53.579>kind <00:03:53.739>of <00:03:53.859>things, <00:03:54.199>we <00:03:54.259>may <00:03:54.439>stray <00:03:54.719>off <00:03:54.919>into <00:03:55.139>different <00:03:55.419>directions. <00:03:56.039>Time <00:03:56.199>will <00:03:56.379>tell, <00:03:56.699>but <00:03:57.379>thank <00:03:58.099>you <00:03:58.259>for <00:03:58.399>joining <00:03:58.659>me. 11 00:03:59.119 --> 00:04:16.799 And <00:03:59.339>my <00:03:59.719>first <00:03:59.979>question <00:04:00.299>to <00:04:00.459>you, <00:04:00.659>if <00:04:00.739>that's <00:04:00.959>all <00:04:01.099>right, <00:04:01.359>is <00:04:01.579>it's <00:04:01.979>a <00:04:02.079>very <00:04:02.239>banal <00:04:02.639>one <00:04:02.819>and <00:04:02.939>I <00:04:03.059>ask <00:04:03.339>everybody <00:04:03.659>the <00:04:03.819>same <00:04:04.079>thing <00:04:04.319>and <00:04:04.439>it's <00:04:04.599>basically <00:04:05.139>it's <00:04:05.439>an <00:04:05.759>opportunity <00:04:06.039>for <00:04:06.299>you <00:04:06.499>to <00:04:06.699>introduce <00:04:07.119>yourself <00:04:07.619>so <00:04:07.859>that <00:04:07.979>we <00:04:08.079>know <00:04:08.239>a <00:04:08.379>little <00:04:08.519>bit <00:04:08.679>more <00:04:08.879>about <00:04:09.099>you. <00:04:09.539>So <00:04:09.899>it's <00:04:10.299>over <00:04:10.459>to <00:04:10.599>you, <00:04:10.839>really. <00:04:11.119>Just <00:04:11.199>give <00:04:11.359>us <00:04:11.459>your <00:04:11.579>little <00:04:11.799>bio. <00:04:12.759>I <00:04:12.879>don't <00:04:12.999>know <00:04:13.019>if <00:04:13.079>you <00:04:13.139>want <00:04:13.239>to <00:04:13.319>keep <00:04:13.499>it <00:04:13.639>in <00:04:13.759>the <00:04:13.859>text <00:04:14.119>space <00:04:14.439>or <00:04:14.639>the <00:04:14.719>WordPress <00:04:15.019>space, <00:04:15.579>but <00:04:15.659>whatever <00:04:16.219>you <00:04:16.459>like. 12 00:04:17.819 --> 00:04:53.599 Sure. <00:04:18.519>Yeah, <00:04:18.759>I <00:04:18.819>can <00:04:19.019>try <00:04:19.319>to <00:04:19.419>keep <00:04:19.539>it <00:04:19.659>a <00:04:19.719>little <00:04:19.819>bit <00:04:20.019>short. <00:04:21.379>I've <00:04:21.859>been <00:04:21.959>doing <00:04:22.399>WordPress <00:04:23.819>for, <00:04:24.379>I <00:04:25.399>don't <00:04:25.539>know, <00:04:25.779>at <00:04:25.819>this <00:04:25.979>point, <00:04:26.399>12 <00:04:26.619>years, <00:04:27.319>13 <00:04:27.559>years, <00:04:27.999>something <00:04:28.139>like <00:04:28.379>that. <00:04:28.979>And <00:04:29.459>sort <00:04:29.799>of <00:04:29.959>happened <00:04:31.379>upon <00:04:31.659>accessibility <00:04:32.219>and <00:04:32.739>then <00:04:32.859>started <00:04:33.159>specializing <00:04:33.699>it <00:04:33.919>for <00:04:34.199>about <00:04:34.739>five <00:04:35.139>or <00:04:35.399>so <00:04:35.659>years. <00:04:37.199>And <00:04:37.679>it's <00:04:38.159>kind <00:04:38.379>of <00:04:38.499>been, <00:04:39.139>you <00:04:39.799>know, <00:04:39.919>I've <00:04:40.059>hopped <00:04:40.399>from <00:04:40.739>agency <00:04:41.479>to <00:04:41.659>agency <00:04:42.079>locally. <00:04:42.559>I, <00:04:43.459>you <00:04:44.159>know, <00:04:44.699>came <00:04:44.919>across <00:04:45.259>an <00:04:45.479>opportunity <00:04:45.939>to <00:04:46.459>leave <00:04:47.019>a <00:04:47.179>job <00:04:47.399>that <00:04:47.559>wasn't <00:04:47.839>a <00:04:47.919>good <00:04:48.039>fit <00:04:48.339>and <00:04:48.699>found <00:04:49.479>myself <00:04:49.979>sort <00:04:50.239>of <00:04:50.359>searching <00:04:50.679>for <00:04:50.979>some <00:04:51.159>contract <00:04:51.519>stuff <00:04:51.879>and <00:04:52.219>then <00:04:52.499>went <00:04:52.879>out <00:04:53.079>on <00:04:53.239>my <00:04:53.399>own. 13 00:04:54.097 --> 00:05:13.537 Probably <00:04:54.717>maybe <00:04:55.917>eight <00:04:56.517>years <00:04:56.817>ago <00:04:57.037>now. <00:04:57.737>So <00:04:58.217>it's <00:04:58.597>sort <00:04:58.717>of <00:04:58.817>been <00:04:59.017>a <00:04:59.477>really <00:04:59.717>interesting <00:05:00.117>ride <00:05:00.657>and <00:05:00.917>I <00:05:01.777>recently <00:05:02.057>took <00:05:02.297>up <00:05:02.477>crochet <00:05:02.797>as <00:05:03.357>a <00:05:03.497>way <00:05:03.657>to

<00:05:03.877>not <00:05:04.197>be <00:05:04.437>on <00:05:04.597>screens <00:05:04.917>all <00:05:05.157>the <00:05:05.277>time <00:05:05.497>because <00:05:05.937>I <00:05:06.397>do <00:05:06.897>watch <00:05:07.217>a <00:05:07.357>lot <00:05:07.437>of <00:05:07.577>TV <00:05:07.857>as <00:05:08.217>well <00:05:08.497>as <00:05:08.917>a <00:05:09.037>way <00:05:09.137>to <00:05:09.277>like <00:05:09.497>decompress. <00:05:10.277>And <00:05:10.317>so <00:05:10.457>it <00:05:10.597>just <00:05:10.717>became <00:05:11.037>too <00:05:11.277>much. <00:05:11.757>And <00:05:11.797>so <00:05:11.917>I <00:05:11.997>started <00:05:12.377>crocheting <00:05:13.317>too. 14 00:05:13.537 --> 00:05:35.297 Can I ask you about the crocheting? I'm so sorry. Does it involve your eyeballs? For example, my mother used to knit and that was like the de-stress, but the knitting was muscle memory. So she could be talking to me whilst knitting. But I get the feeling with crochet, like your eyes have got to be on the object that you're trying to crochet, if you know what I mean. 15 00:05:35.297 --> 00:06:05.217 Yeah, <00:05:36.337>I've <00:05:36.517>seen <00:05:36.757>people <00:05:37.137>do <00:05:37.457>it <00:05:37.637>without <00:05:37.897>looking. <00:05:38.377>Oh, <00:05:38.797>I <00:05:38.897>think <00:05:39.197>I <00:05:39.677>did <00:05:40.017>recently. <00:05:41.277>Try <00:05:41.877>knitting, <00:05:42.817>and <00:05:43.097>it's <00:05:43.217>something <00:05:43.417>I <00:05:43.597>will <00:05:43.737>continue <00:05:44.097>to <00:05:44.297>do, <00:05:44.557>but <00:05:44.657>it <00:05:44.777>does <00:05:45.057>seem <00:05:45.557>slightly <00:05:46.757>more <00:05:47.137>difficult <00:05:47.617>because <00:05:47.977>you <00:05:48.157>do <00:05:48.277>have <00:05:48.477>to <00:05:48.637>insert <00:05:49.277>into <00:05:49.697>each <00:05:49.977>of <00:05:50.097>the <00:05:50.197>stitches, <00:05:50.577>so <00:05:50.797>you <00:05:50.917>do <00:05:51.037>have <00:05:51.237>to <00:05:51.377>know. <00:05:51.777>So <00:05:51.817>I <00:05:51.917>guess <00:05:52.077>it <00:05:52.217>depends <00:05:52.517>on <00:05:52.717>what <00:05:53.037>yarn <00:05:53.337>you're <00:05:53.577>using, <00:05:53.977>how <00:05:54.497>much <00:05:54.697>you <00:05:54.797>can <00:05:54.937>feel <00:05:55.137>each <00:05:55.397>stitch, <00:05:56.037>how <00:05:56.297>much <00:05:56.557>you <00:05:56.697>do <00:05:56.877>a <00:05:57.057>certain <00:05:57.297>stitch, <00:05:57.737>and <00:05:57.797>so <00:05:57.977>if <00:05:58.397>you <00:05:58.597>can, <00:05:59.277>I <00:05:59.617>probably <00:06:00.137>could <00:06:00.417>do <00:06:00.617>it <00:06:00.817>less. <00:06:01.617>Sometimes <00:06:02.017>I'll <00:06:02.257>try <00:06:02.417>to <00:06:02.537>do <00:06:02.657>it <00:06:02.757>without <00:06:02.937>looking <00:06:03.277>for <00:06:03.477>a <00:06:03.617>couple <00:06:03.817>of <00:06:04.037>stitches <00:06:04.357>and <00:06:04.577>see <00:06:04.797>if <00:06:05.017>I <00:06:05.077>can <00:06:05.177>do it. 16 00:06:05.217 --> 00:06:27.557 do it. That's a crazy wobbly line. I love finding out what people do as hobbies, but anyway, we'll wrestle it back to the question in hand, which is accessibility. Can I ask a serious point? You said, I don't know, like eight years ago or five years ago or something like that, you found yourself being interested in accessibility. Why that? 17 00:06:27.717 --> 00:06:41.837 Have <00:06:27.977>you <00:06:28.077>ever <00:06:28.297>examined, <00:06:28.817>have <00:06:28.897>you <00:06:28.917>ever <00:06:29.037>looked <00:06:29.197>back <00:06:29.357>and <00:06:29.497>think, <00:06:29.717>of <00:06:29.797>all <00:06:29.917>the <00:06:30.037>things <00:06:30.237>that <00:06:30.357>you <00:06:30.477>could <00:06:30.817>have <00:06:30.977>done, <00:06:31.597>like <00:06:31.717>you <00:06:31.857>could <00:06:32.017>have <00:06:32.157>delved <00:06:32.717>into, <00:06:33.077>I <00:06:33.117>don't <00:06:33.217>know, <00:06:33.397>specialising <00:06:33.837>in <00:06:33.977>graphic <00:06:34.217>design, <00:06:34.697>design <00:06:35.037>or, <00:06:35.277>you <00:06:35.517>know, <00:06:35.817>code <00:06:36.077>development, <00:06:36.657>plugin <00:06:36.797>development. <00:06:37.297>What <00:06:37.677>was <00:06:37.857>it <00:06:38.017>about <00:06:38.277>accessibility <00:06:38.897>that <00:06:39.377>sort <00:06:39.597>of <00:06:39.697>captured <00:06:40.097>you <00:06:40.377>and <00:06:40.577>made <00:06:40.857>you <00:06:40.997>interested <00:06:41.457>in <00:06:41.697>it? 18 00:06:42.492 --> 00:07:16.192 It's <00:06:43.032>a <00:06:43.112>really <00:06:43.252>good <00:06:43.392>question, <00:06:43.772>too, <00:06:44.212>because <00:06:44.552>I <00:06:45.492>did <00:06:46.172>have <00:06:46.472>the <00:06:46.592>opportunity. <00:06:46.972>I <00:06:47.452>was <00:06:47.632>never <00:06:47.852>really <00:06:48.332>good. <00:06:48.852>I'm <00:06:49.032>good <00:06:49.192>at <00:06:49.452>adjusting <00:06:50.352>designs <00:06:50.932>and <00:06:51.312>even <00:06:51.812>writing <00:06:52.192>like <00:06:52.472>I've <00:06:53.272>written <00:06:53.612>stuff <00:06:53.972>and <00:06:54.272>I'm <00:06:54.612>good <00:06:54.812>at <00:06:54.972>editing <00:06:55.372>and <00:06:55.732>like <00:06:55.932>starting <00:06:56.352>from <00:06:56.832>a <00:06:57.392>prompt <00:06:57.892>or <00:06:58.272>so <00:06:58.792>I <00:06:59.292>knew <00:06:59.572>that <00:06:59.792>like <00:06:59.992>creating <00:07:00.392>from <00:07:00.652>nothing <00:07:00.892>was <00:07:01.112>not <00:07:01.292>really <00:07:01.532>for <00:07:01.752>me. <00:07:01.992>And <00:07:02.232>so <00:07:02.352>I <00:07:02.492>did <00:07:02.712>go. <00:07:03.492>I <00:07:04.072>went <00:07:04.232>to <00:07:04.352>school <00:07:04.612>for <00:07:05.052>English <00:07:05.972>education, <00:07:07.552>dropped <00:07:08.112>the <00:07:08.312>education <00:07:08.792>part, <00:07:09.212>just <00:07:09.332>did <00:07:09.512>English,

<00:07:09.992>then <00:07:10.452>found <00:07:11.132>a <00:07:11.832>community <00:07:12.132>college <00:07:12.452>that <00:07:12.672>had <00:07:13.132>the <00:07:14.812>like <00:07:15.132>web <00:07:15.372>development <00:07:15.852>side. 19 00:07:16.212 --> 00:07:44.472 So <00:07:16.412>I <00:07:16.512>did <00:07:16.692>start <00:07:17.092>off <00:07:17.472>going <00:07:17.792>directly <00:07:18.152>into <00:07:18.352>the <00:07:18.512>development, <00:07:18.852>but <00:07:19.272>I <00:07:20.272>kind <00:07:20.532>of <00:07:20.632>had <00:07:20.852>my <00:07:21.032>hands <00:07:21.352>in <00:07:21.492>a <00:07:21.612>little <00:07:21.752>bit <00:07:21.912>of <00:07:22.052>everything <00:07:22.452>and <00:07:23.532>would <00:07:24.412>do <00:07:24.812>a <00:07:24.992>lot <00:07:25.072>of <00:07:25.212>editing <00:07:25.672>of <00:07:26.172>sites. <00:07:26.552>And <00:07:26.932>so <00:07:27.132>I <00:07:27.412>think <00:07:27.612>I <00:07:27.792>was <00:07:27.992>like <00:07:28.152>building <00:07:28.552>some <00:07:28.932>kind <00:07:29.152>of <00:07:29.532>I <00:07:30.032>don't <00:07:30.172>know <00:07:30.192>if <00:07:30.292>it <00:07:30.352>was <00:07:30.452>an <00:07:30.552>accordion <00:07:31.112>or <00:07:31.592>like <00:07:31.852>something <00:07:32.172>a <00:07:32.632>little <00:07:32.932>bit <00:07:33.092>more <00:07:33.312>advanced <00:07:33.672>and <00:07:33.912>I <00:07:34.012>came <00:07:34.252>across <00:07:34.572>something <00:07:35.092>related <00:07:35.912>to <00:07:36.172>like <00:07:36.352>an <00:07:36.492>ARIA <00:07:36.752>label <00:07:37.072>or <00:07:37.332>an <00:07:37.452>ARIA <00:07:37.832>something. <00:07:38.472>And <00:07:38.872>I <00:07:38.932>was <00:07:39.032>like, <00:07:39.232>what <00:07:39.312>is <00:07:39.492>like, <00:07:39.992>what <00:07:40.092>is <00:07:40.232>this? <00:07:40.432>I <00:07:40.512>hadn't <00:07:40.692>heard <00:07:40.812>of <00:07:40.932>it <00:07:41.032>before. <00:07:41.472>And <00:07:41.532>then <00:07:41.652>I <00:07:41.772>got <00:07:41.952>kind <00:07:42.152>of <00:07:42.292>mad <00:07:42.612>that <00:07:42.932>I <00:07:43.132>hadn't <00:07:43.532>been <00:07:43.672>told <00:07:43.892>it <00:07:44.092>before. 20 00:07:45.112 --> 00:08:15.112 And <00:07:45.512>I <00:07:45.592>was <00:07:45.652>like, <00:07:45.812>why <00:07:46.012>is <00:07:46.232>like, <00:07:46.852>why <00:07:46.992>is <00:07:47.152>this <00:07:47.272>not? <00:07:48.152>It's <00:07:48.672>a <00:07:48.792>thing <00:07:49.032>that <00:07:49.232>makes <00:07:49.472>it <00:07:49.592>work <00:07:49.972>for <00:07:50.412>a <00:07:51.452>whole <00:07:51.732>portion <00:07:52.412>of <00:07:52.732>the <00:07:52.992>internet. <00:07:53.452>Like, <00:07:53.672>why <00:07:53.792>is <00:07:54.012>this <00:07:54.172>not <00:07:54.372>a <00:07:54.512>thing <00:07:54.832>that <00:07:55.712>I <00:07:55.832>knew <00:07:56.012>about? <00:07:56.492>And <00:07:56.572>then <00:07:56.672>so <00:07:56.852>I <00:07:57.012>just <00:07:57.372>sort <00:07:57.552>of <00:07:57.652>dove <00:07:57.912>deeper <00:07:58.352>into <00:07:58.592>that. <00:07:59.012>And <00:07:59.092>then <00:07:59.232>it <00:07:59.352>became <00:07:59.652>part <00:08:00.012>of <00:08:00.212>just <00:08:00.932>what <00:08:01.212>I <00:08:01.332>was <00:08:01.552>like, <00:08:01.732>well, <00:08:01.872>of <00:08:01.992>course, <00:08:02.172>I'm <00:08:02.372>gonna <00:08:02.612>do <00:08:02.812>it <00:08:02.932>now <00:08:03.072>that <00:08:03.212>I <00:08:03.312>know <00:08:03.492>it. <00:08:03.832>And <00:08:04.132>then <00:08:04.232>it <00:08:04.332>just <00:08:04.472>sort <00:08:04.632>of <00:08:04.732>grew <00:08:05.012>from <00:08:05.412>there. <00:08:05.752>So <00:08:05.812>I <00:08:05.892>think <00:08:05.972>that <00:08:06.092>was <00:08:06.192>kind <00:08:06.332>of <00:08:06.412>the <00:08:06.512>first <00:08:06.752>moment. <00:08:07.412>I <00:08:07.632>kind <00:08:07.812>of <00:08:07.932>tend <00:08:08.072>to <00:08:08.212>do <00:08:08.392>stuff <00:08:08.672>because <00:08:08.872>it <00:08:09.012>irritates <00:08:09.492>me <00:08:09.632>and <00:08:09.852>I <00:08:09.972>want <00:08:10.132>to <00:08:10.232>change. <00:08:11.112>Like, <00:08:11.552>I <00:08:11.592>don't <00:08:11.752>want <00:08:11.932>it <00:08:12.072>things <00:08:12.392>to <00:08:12.592>like, <00:08:13.052>this <00:08:13.652>shouldn't <00:08:13.872>be <00:08:13.992>a <00:08:14.132>thing. <00:08:14.392>I <00:08:14.452>need <00:08:14.572>to <00:08:14.692>change <00:08:14.912>that. 21 00:08:15.112 --> 00:08:19.932 Right. <00:08:15.572>So <00:08:15.592>yeah, <00:08:15.892>I <00:08:15.912>kind <00:08:16.072>of <00:08:16.232>included <00:08:16.712>that <00:08:16.992>in <00:08:17.252>my <00:08:17.492>sort <00:08:17.752>of, <00:08:18.032>you <00:08:18.992>know, <00:08:19.232>stuff <00:08:19.412>going <00:08:19.612>forward. 22 00:08:20.052 --> 00:08:52.552 Yeah. <00:08:20.592>So <00:08:21.032>this <00:08:22.252>question <00:08:22.552>may <00:08:22.792>not <00:08:22.992>land <00:08:23.212>at <00:08:23.372>all <00:08:23.552>in <00:08:23.692>that <00:08:23.832>I <00:08:24.012>might <00:08:24.252>say <00:08:24.472>it <00:08:24.592>and <00:08:24.672>you <00:08:24.752>think, <00:08:24.972>well, <00:08:25.092>I <00:08:25.232>don't <00:08:25.672>think <00:08:25.872>that <00:08:26.052>anyway. <00:08:26.372>But <00:08:26.632>I <00:08:26.832>was <00:08:27.112>wondering, <00:08:27.412>when <00:08:28.012>was <00:08:28.232>the <00:08:28.372>moment <00:08:28.652>where <00:08:28.952>you <00:08:29.212>realized <00:08:29.792>that <00:08:30.072>the <00:08:30.212>knowledge <00:08:30.492>that <00:08:30.692>you <00:08:30.912>had <00:08:31.112>acquired <00:08:31.592>was, <00:08:32.992>how <00:08:33.052>to <00:08:33.252>word <00:08:33.512>this, <00:08:34.072>in <00:08:34.292>excess <00:08:34.772>of <00:08:35.312>what <00:08:36.752>most <00:08:37.212>people <00:08:37.612>have <00:08:37.992>already <00:08:38.472>acquired? <00:08:38.932>And

<00:08:39.212>really <00:08:39.472>what <00:08:39.632>I <00:08:39.752>mean <00:08:39.952>by <00:08:40.152>that <00:08:40.372>is <00:08:40.592>that <00:08:40.832>there's <00:08:41.132>obviously <00:08:41.352>people <00:08:41.632>out <00:08:41.812>there <00:08:42.012>who <00:08:42.192>are, <00:08:42.452>you <00:08:42.512>know, <00:08:42.652>this <00:08:42.772>is <00:08:42.912>just <00:08:43.072>what <00:08:43.232>they <00:08:43.372>do. <00:08:43.792>There's <00:08:43.912>a <00:08:44.352>handful <00:08:44.592>of <00:08:44.772>people <00:08:44.972>in <00:08:45.092>the <00:08:45.172>WordPress <00:08:45.452>space <00:08:45.772>who <00:08:45.912>do <00:08:46.092>it <00:08:46.272>and <00:08:46.692>who's <00:08:46.932>dedicated <00:08:47.312>a <00:08:47.532>lot <00:08:47.712>of <00:08:47.832>time <00:08:48.132>to <00:08:48.352>it. <00:08:48.592>And <00:08:48.612>so, <00:08:48.992>you <00:08:49.072>know, <00:08:49.212>it's <00:08:49.352>pretty <00:08:49.552>clear <00:08:49.852>that <00:08:50.072>they've <00:08:50.412>got <00:08:50.572>all <00:08:50.752>the <00:08:50.912>chops <00:08:51.212>and <00:08:51.412>credentials <00:08:51.892>to <00:08:52.192>do <00:08:52.352>that. 23 00:08:52.801 --> 00:09:13.721 I <00:08:53.161>wonder <00:08:53.441>when <00:08:53.841>the <00:08:54.361>moment <00:08:54.741>was <00:08:55.181>when <00:08:55.441>you <00:08:55.681>looked <00:08:56.041>at <00:08:56.201>your <00:08:56.401>own <00:08:56.781>backstory <00:08:57.521>and <00:08:57.901>thought, <00:08:58.441>oh, <00:08:59.101>okay, <00:08:59.481>I've <00:08:59.621>come <00:08:59.761>a <00:08:59.921>long <00:09:00.041>way, <00:09:00.541>maybe <00:09:00.721>I've <00:09:00.941>got <00:09:01.061>something <00:09:01.381>to <00:09:01.641>share <00:09:02.161>at <00:09:02.421>this <00:09:02.641>point, <00:09:03.081>as <00:09:03.161>opposed <00:09:03.441>to, <00:09:03.841>you <00:09:04.141>know, <00:09:04.361>instead <00:09:04.501>of <00:09:04.661>taking <00:09:04.921>knowledge <00:09:05.241>in, <00:09:05.841>I'm <00:09:06.401>now <00:09:06.701>in <00:09:06.881>a <00:09:06.961>position <00:09:07.241>where <00:09:07.421>I <00:09:07.541>can <00:09:07.701>reverse <00:09:08.041>that <00:09:08.341>and <00:09:08.501>give <00:09:08.901>knowledge <00:09:09.361>out. <00:09:09.981>That <00:09:10.441>may <00:09:10.621>be <00:09:10.741>recent, <00:09:11.261>it <00:09:11.321>may <00:09:11.441>be <00:09:11.541>years <00:09:11.761>ago, <00:09:11.981>maybe <00:09:12.161>you <00:09:12.321>don't <00:09:12.561>identify <00:09:13.001>with <00:09:13.241>that <00:09:13.381>at <00:09:13.561>all. 24 00:09:14.801 --> 00:09:42.581 Yeah, <00:09:15.481>I <00:09:15.541>think <00:09:15.781>it's <00:09:16.081>something <00:09:16.421>that, <00:09:17.401>as <00:09:18.561>you're <00:09:18.801>seeing, <00:09:19.761>like, <00:09:20.621>oh, <00:09:20.821>wait <00:09:20.921>a <00:09:21.021>minute, <00:09:21.321>nobody's <00:09:21.861>doing <00:09:22.221>this. <00:09:22.781>And <00:09:23.181>like, <00:09:23.761>and <00:09:23.861>then <00:09:23.921>you <00:09:24.041>just <00:09:24.181>sort <00:09:24.321>of <00:09:24.441>see <00:09:24.781>less <00:09:25.241>and <00:09:25.401>less <00:09:25.701>stuff <00:09:26.301>doing <00:09:26.701>things <00:09:27.061>the <00:09:27.181>right <00:09:27.361>way. <00:09:27.821>And <00:09:27.881>you're <00:09:28.001>like, <00:09:28.361>I <00:09:29.241>don't <00:09:29.481>think, <00:09:29.961>I <00:09:30.441>think <00:09:30.701>most <00:09:32.221>people <00:09:32.861>who <00:09:33.081>are <00:09:33.261>good <00:09:34.141>at <00:09:34.321>what <00:09:34.481>they <00:09:34.681>do, <00:09:35.101>or <00:09:35.441>have <00:09:35.661>a <00:09:35.781>lot <00:09:35.881>of <00:09:36.021>knowledge, <00:09:36.481>like, <00:09:36.641>the <00:09:36.721>more <00:09:36.901>you <00:09:37.061>know, <00:09:37.281>the <00:09:37.361>more <00:09:37.501>you <00:09:37.641>don't, <00:09:38.141>you <00:09:38.941>know, <00:09:39.301>the <00:09:39.601>more <00:09:39.781>it's <00:09:40.061>like, <00:09:40.301>the <00:09:40.421>more <00:09:40.581>you <00:09:40.761>know, <00:09:41.221>the <00:09:41.341>more <00:09:41.561>you <00:09:41.721>realize <00:09:41.961>you <00:09:42.121>don't <00:09:42.361>know. 25 00:09:42.581 --> 00:10:37.432 Okay, <00:09:43.721>yeah, <00:09:43.981>so <00:09:44.041>like, <00:09:44.541>there's <00:09:45.641>the <00:09:45.761>always <00:09:46.081>going <00:09:46.261>to <00:09:46.361>be <00:09:46.501>that, <00:09:46.861>like, <00:09:47.281>oh, <00:09:47.521>well, <00:09:47.661>these <00:09:47.761>people <00:09:48.001>know <00:09:48.181>more <00:09:48.361>than <00:09:48.501>me, <00:09:48.761>I'm <00:09:48.921>not <00:09:49.081>an <00:09:49.221>expert <00:09:49.501>in <00:09:49.701>this, <00:09:50.101>or <00:09:50.221>like, <00:09:50.601>you <00:09:50.921>know, <00:09:51.701>that <00:09:52.161>it's <00:09:52.361>like <00:09:52.481>a <00:09:52.601>version <00:09:52.881>of <00:09:53.081>like <00:09:53.261>that <00:09:53.421>imposter <00:09:53.821>syndrome <00:09:54.201>that <00:09:54.461>sort <00:09:54.641>of, <00:09:55.061>I <00:09:55.501>think <00:09:55.681>you're <00:09:55.861>always, <00:09:56.501>you <00:09:57.021>have <00:09:57.161>to <00:09:57.261>become <00:09:57.521>comfortable <00:09:57.921>with <00:09:58.481>having <00:09:58.881>and <00:09:59.461>for <00:09:59.881>someone <00:10:00.121>like <00:10:00.321>me. <00:10:00.681>And <00:10:00.741>so <00:10:01.021>I <00:10:01.661>think <00:10:01.901>it <00:10:02.241>did <00:10:02.421>take <00:10:02.681>a <00:10:02.861>little <00:10:03.021>bit <00:10:03.301>to <00:10:03.701>convince <00:10:04.201>myself <00:10:04.701>that <00:10:05.592>I <00:10:06.032>was <00:10:06.392>knowledgeable <00:10:06.852>enough, <00:10:07.612>even <00:10:08.032>though <00:10:08.192>I <00:10:08.352>wasn't <00:10:08.772>as <00:10:09.172>knowledgeable <00:10:09.592>as <00:10:09.832>the <00:10:09.932>people <00:10:10.112>have <00:10:10.252>been <00:10:10.332>doing <00:10:10.492>it <00:10:10.672>for

<00:10:10.752>even <00:10:10.952>longer <00:10:11.212>than <00:10:11.372>me. <00:10:12.092>But <00:10:12.472>I <00:10:13.132>think <00:10:13.432>it's <00:10:14.372>just <00:10:14.512>something <00:10:14.832>where <00:10:15.472>you <00:10:16.012>see <00:10:16.352>enough <00:10:16.712>people <00:10:17.452>doing <00:10:17.772>it <00:10:17.972>wrong <00:10:18.252>and <00:10:18.412>you're <00:10:18.552>like, <00:10:19.032>wow, <00:10:20.472>let <00:10:20.552>me <00:10:20.692>see <00:10:21.132>if <00:10:21.372>I <00:10:21.532>can <00:10:21.772>tell <00:10:22.232>them <00:10:22.412>to <00:10:22.532>do <00:10:22.692>it <00:10:22.812>right. <00:10:23.332>Like <00:10:23.452>sort <00:10:23.672>of <00:10:23.792>taking <00:10:24.012>that <00:10:24.372>instead <00:10:24.612>of <00:10:24.912>trying <00:10:25.752>to, <00:10:28.512>yeah, <00:10:29.472>I <00:10:29.552>don't <00:10:29.692>know, <00:10:29.972>like, <00:10:30.392>be <00:10:31.652>like, <00:10:31.952>you <00:10:32.012>should <00:10:32.232>know <00:10:32.452>how <00:10:32.592>to <00:10:32.732>do <00:10:32.872>this, <00:10:33.312>that <00:10:33.452>you're <00:10:33.652>doing <00:10:33.832>it <00:10:33.952>wrong. <00:10:34.392>Kind <00:10:34.452>of <00:10:34.572>being <00:10:34.712>like, <00:10:35.032>oh, <00:10:35.492>oh, <00:10:35.732>this <00:10:35.872>is <00:10:36.052>actually, <00:10:36.552>you <00:10:36.652>know, <00:10:36.732>I <00:10:36.792>don't <00:10:36.892>know <00:10:36.972>if <00:10:37.072>you <00:10:37.152>knew <00:10:37.252>this. 26 00:10:37.512 --> 00:11:17.685 But <00:10:37.672>this <00:10:38.152>is <00:10:38.292>wrong <00:10:38.552>and <00:10:38.732>you <00:10:38.972>should <00:10:39.132>do <00:10:39.292>it <00:10:39.432>different. <00:10:39.892>Like, <00:10:40.132>you <00:10:40.412>know, <00:10:40.572>there's <00:10:40.732>always <00:10:40.952>that <00:10:41.392>aspect <00:10:41.852>to <00:10:42.092>accessibility <00:10:42.592>that's <00:10:43.032>like, <00:10:43.352>you <00:10:43.772>should <00:10:43.932>do <00:10:44.132>it <00:10:44.272>different <00:10:44.572>now. <00:10:45.792>And <00:10:46.312>there's <00:10:46.592>that <00:10:46.872>struggle <00:10:47.532>between <00:10:47.912>like <00:10:48.272>telling <00:10:48.632>someone <00:10:48.952>what <00:10:49.132>to <00:10:49.272>do <00:10:49.612>and <00:10:50.232>like <00:10:50.972>being <00:10:51.692>nice <00:10:52.012>about <00:10:52.292>it <00:10:52.672>so <00:10:52.952>that <00:10:53.132>they <00:10:53.252>don't <00:10:53.432>get <00:10:53.552>defensive <00:10:53.972>about <00:10:54.412>it. <00:10:54.652>I <00:10:54.812>think <00:10:54.952>there's <00:10:55.172>a <00:10:55.252>lot <00:10:55.512>of <00:10:55.972>juggling <00:10:56.472>that <00:10:57.952>goes <00:10:58.212>on <00:10:58.452>in <00:10:58.572>the <00:10:58.672>accessibility <00:10:59.052>space. <00:10:59.805>And <00:11:00.265>especially <00:11:00.745>when <00:11:00.985>you <00:11:01.065>come <00:11:01.245>across <00:11:01.465>the <00:11:01.665>same <00:11:01.845>issues <00:11:02.145>all <00:11:02.305>the <00:11:02.405>time, <00:11:02.725>it <00:11:03.305>does <00:11:04.025>sort <00:11:04.905>of <00:11:05.305>wear <00:11:05.605>on <00:11:06.105>the <00:11:06.325>people <00:11:06.605>that <00:11:06.885>are. <00:11:07.225>So <00:11:07.305>anytime <00:11:07.625>you <00:11:08.065>come <00:11:08.245>across <00:11:08.545>an <00:11:08.885>accessibility <00:11:09.205>person <00:11:09.705>that <00:11:10.205>seems <00:11:10.645>like <00:11:10.845>they're <00:11:11.025>being <00:11:11.405>crabby <00:11:11.985>about <00:11:12.285>something, <00:11:12.805>it's <00:11:12.865>probably <00:11:13.325>not <00:11:14.085>you. <00:11:14.945>And <00:11:15.025>try <00:11:15.725>to <00:11:15.885>just <00:11:16.125>take <00:11:16.385>it <00:11:16.645>for <00:11:17.225>what <00:11:17.365>it <00:11:17.485>is. 27 00:11:17.685 --> 00:11:54.565 Yeah. <00:11:18.105>Well, <00:11:18.525>that's <00:11:18.725>the <00:11:18.845>thing <00:11:18.965>about <00:11:19.205>being <00:11:19.525>knowledgeable, <00:11:20.245>isn't <00:11:20.485>it? <00:11:20.685>Once <00:11:20.865>you've <00:11:21.365>gained <00:11:21.825>like <00:11:22.445>a <00:11:22.545>weight <00:11:22.765>of <00:11:22.925>knowledge, <00:11:23.485>so <00:11:24.165>there's <00:11:24.325>a <00:11:24.405>couple <00:11:24.545>of <00:11:24.645>things <00:11:24.785>here. <00:11:25.125>The <00:11:25.245>first <00:11:25.545>one <00:11:25.705>is <00:11:25.905>once <00:11:26.545>you <00:11:26.705>prise <00:11:26.985>open <00:11:27.405>an <00:11:27.805>aspect, <00:11:28.365>for <00:11:28.445>example, <00:11:28.845>accessibility, <00:11:29.345>and <00:11:29.945>you <00:11:30.065>begin <00:11:30.285>to <00:11:30.445>explore <00:11:30.785>it, <00:11:31.065>I <00:11:31.325>imagine <00:11:31.685>you <00:11:31.965>quickly <00:11:32.565>realize <00:11:33.045>how <00:11:33.765>much <00:11:34.345>there <00:11:34.585>is <00:11:34.865>and <00:11:34.985>you <00:11:35.125>could <00:11:35.265>probably <00:11:35.585>spend <00:11:35.865>a <00:11:36.005>whole <00:11:36.145>lifetime <00:11:36.545>just, <00:11:37.025>you <00:11:37.105>know, <00:11:37.485>just <00:11:37.865>on <00:11:38.385>that <00:11:38.585>thing. <00:11:38.885>And <00:11:38.925>there <00:11:39.385>are <00:11:39.485>several <00:11:39.725>people <00:11:39.985>who <00:11:40.165>do <00:11:40.345>that. <00:11:40.605>But <00:11:41.125>also, <00:11:41.925>once <00:11:42.125>you <00:11:42.225>get <00:11:42.425>knowledgeable <00:11:42.985>at <00:11:43.325>a <00:11:43.405>particular <00:11:43.765>thing, <00:11:44.745>irritation <00:11:44.965>is <00:11:45.365>the <00:11:45.465>wrong <00:11:45.645>word, <00:11:45.965>but <00:11:46.025>it's <00:11:46.205>a <00:11:46.345>little <00:11:46.465>bit <00:11:46.645>about <00:11:46.885>what <00:11:47.085>you <00:11:47.205>were <00:11:47.345>saying <00:11:47.565>there. <00:11:47.965>You <00:11:48.045>know, <00:11:48.145>you <00:11:48.205>look <00:11:48.385>around <00:11:48.645>and <00:11:48.805>you

<00:11:48.905>see <00:11:49.085>people <00:11:49.445>making <00:11:49.785>the <00:11:50.025>blonders <00:11:50.465>that <00:11:50.625>you <00:11:50.825>used <00:11:51.245>to <00:11:51.645>make. <00:11:52.685>And <00:11:53.085>why <00:11:53.905>wouldn't <00:11:54.365>you? 28 00:11:54.923 --> 00:12:36.003 Put <00:11:55.163>your <00:11:55.343>oar <00:11:55.563>in <00:11:55.703>and <00:11:55.843>say, <00:11:56.183>well, <00:11:56.303>hang <00:11:56.423>on <00:11:56.523>a <00:11:56.643>minute, <00:11:56.863>because <00:11:57.243>there <00:11:57.523>is <00:11:57.643>a <00:11:57.783>better <00:11:58.163>way <00:11:58.403>of <00:11:58.563>doing <00:11:58.723>that, <00:11:59.003>but <00:11:59.083>not <00:11:59.343>only <00:11:59.663>that. <00:11:59.983>It's <00:12:00.043>not <00:12:00.163>just <00:12:00.343>a <00:12:00.543>superior <00:12:01.163>way <00:12:01.563>because <00:12:02.183>it's <00:12:02.583>superior. <00:12:03.563>It's <00:12:04.003>superior <00:12:04.523>because <00:12:04.923>there's <00:12:05.123>a <00:12:05.183>whole <00:12:05.463>phalanx <00:12:06.523>of <00:12:06.663>people <00:12:07.083>who, <00:12:07.763>if <00:12:07.843>you <00:12:07.963>just <00:12:08.163>do <00:12:08.383>this <00:12:08.623>one <00:12:08.863>thing, <00:12:09.283>can <00:12:09.463>actually <00:12:09.763>read <00:12:10.283>that <00:12:10.563>now <00:12:10.943>or <00:12:11.903>can <00:12:12.083>actually <00:12:12.383>open <00:12:12.883>that <00:12:13.183>or <00:12:13.423>can <00:12:13.583>actually <00:12:13.883>click <00:12:14.323>that, <00:12:14.863>whereas <00:12:15.083>before <00:12:15.503>they <00:12:15.783>couldn't. <00:12:16.183>There <00:12:16.323>was <00:12:16.443>a <00:12:16.563>black <00:12:16.903>hole <00:12:17.183>of <00:12:17.323>a <00:12:17.423>website <00:12:17.823>completely <00:12:18.623>unavailable <00:12:19.263>to <00:12:19.503>a <00:12:19.643>class <00:12:19.963>of <00:12:20.083>people, <00:12:20.443>and <00:12:21.203>now <00:12:21.623>it's <00:12:22.263>available. <00:12:23.063>And, <00:12:23.323>you <00:12:23.583>know, <00:12:23.903>I <00:12:24.223>think <00:12:24.463>banging <00:12:24.863>the <00:12:25.083>gong <00:12:25.323>on <00:12:25.483>accessibility <00:12:26.023>and <00:12:26.423>being, <00:12:26.923>how <00:12:27.523>to <00:12:27.663>describe <00:12:28.023>this, <00:12:28.483>being <00:12:28.743>a <00:12:28.903>bit <00:12:29.123>forthright <00:12:31.103>about <00:12:31.383>it. <00:12:31.623>Let's <00:12:31.783>go <00:12:31.923>with <00:12:32.063>that. <00:12:32.363>I <00:12:32.763>think <00:12:32.963>that's <00:12:33.203>a <00:12:33.283>good <00:12:33.423>thing. <00:12:33.923>So, <00:12:34.223>yeah, <00:12:35.083>that's <00:12:35.463>great. 29 00:12:36.003 --> 00:13:12.033 Yeah, <00:12:36.603>it's <00:12:37.003>hard <00:12:37.203>because <00:12:37.463>you're <00:12:37.703>having <00:12:37.923>to <00:12:38.143>juggle <00:12:38.623>different <00:12:39.463>audiences, <00:12:40.283>too, <00:12:40.843>because <00:12:41.043>you <00:12:41.203>have, <00:12:41.423>like, <00:12:41.603>the <00:12:41.683>people <00:12:41.883>who <00:12:42.043>build <00:12:42.243>their <00:12:42.383>own <00:12:42.543>websites. <00:12:43.163>And <00:12:43.463>so <00:12:43.583>your <00:12:43.743>beef <00:12:43.963>is <00:12:44.163>with <00:12:44.363>them <00:12:44.703>to <00:12:44.903>a <00:12:45.023>certain <00:12:45.243>extent, <00:12:45.623>but <00:12:46.123>the <00:12:46.263>beef <00:12:46.463>is <00:12:46.623>with <00:12:46.743>the <00:12:47.203>things <00:12:48.183>that <00:12:48.403>are <00:12:48.523>allowing <00:12:48.803>them <00:12:48.963>to <00:12:49.103>build <00:12:49.463>the <00:12:49.763>sites. <00:12:50.703>And, <00:12:51.323>um... <00:12:52.153>Like <00:12:52.713>not <00:12:53.153>making <00:12:53.533>things <00:12:54.133>that <00:12:54.393>are <00:12:54.533>available <00:12:54.853>to <00:12:55.093>them <00:12:55.253>that <00:12:55.393>are <00:12:55.493>accessible. <00:12:56.113>So <00:12:56.153>like, <00:12:56.613>you <00:12:57.113>know, <00:12:57.333>Squarespace <00:12:57.713>does <00:12:58.133>this <00:12:58.373>in <00:12:58.533>this <00:12:58.693>way <00:12:58.933>and <00:12:59.133>you <00:12:59.253>can't <00:12:59.493>fix <00:12:59.713>it <00:12:59.913>unless <00:13:00.213>you <00:13:00.393>do <00:13:00.553>this. <00:13:01.073>And <00:13:01.133>then, <00:13:01.473>you <00:13:01.873>know, <00:13:02.113>Elementor <00:13:02.533>does <00:13:02.733>this <00:13:02.953>in <00:13:03.073>this <00:13:03.213>way <00:13:03.373>and <00:13:03.473>you <00:13:03.573>can't <00:13:03.753>fix <00:13:03.933>it <00:13:04.033>unless <00:13:04.193>you <00:13:04.313>do <00:13:04.413>this. <00:13:04.633>So <00:13:04.713>it's <00:13:04.913>like <00:13:05.113>that. <00:13:05.793>But <00:13:05.853>then <00:13:06.013>there's <00:13:06.233>also <00:13:06.433>that <00:13:06.653>sort <00:13:06.833>of <00:13:06.933>enterprise <00:13:07.373>level <00:13:07.793>frustration <00:13:08.253>where <00:13:08.633>people <00:13:08.953>aren't <00:13:09.493>empowered <00:13:10.033>to <00:13:10.693>make <00:13:11.033>those <00:13:11.693>changes. 30 00:13:12.033 --> 00:13:42.313 Like <00:13:12.473>I <00:13:12.913>get, <00:13:13.153>you <00:13:13.373>know, <00:13:13.593>advertised <00:13:14.033>to <00:13:14.333>the <00:13:14.393>Woobles <00:13:14.913>sort <00:13:15.593>of <00:13:15.793>like <00:13:16.133>crochet <00:13:16.833>kits <00:13:17.373>and <00:13:17.913>then <00:13:18.033>I <00:13:18.153>went <00:13:18.373>on <00:13:18.553>to <00:13:18.733>see <00:13:18.933>one <00:13:19.173>of <00:13:19.293>them <00:13:19.553>and <00:13:20.113>like <00:13:20.353>the <00:13:20.613>contrast <00:13:21.293>was <00:13:21.633>all <00:13:21.853>off <00:13:22.233>and <00:13:22.493>like <00:13:22.673>there's <00:13:22.853>all <00:13:23.033>these <00:13:23.173>things, <00:13:23.533>but <00:13:23.573>you're <00:13:23.733>not <00:13:23.893>sort <00:13:24.073>of <00:13:24.193>empowering. <00:13:24.753>Like <00:13:25.133>you

<00:13:25.373>just <00:13:25.593>have <00:13:25.773>some <00:13:26.053>person <00:13:26.593>who's <00:13:27.053>inputting <00:13:27.993>something <00:13:28.353>that <00:13:28.713>some <00:13:29.033>manager <00:13:29.393>told <00:13:29.653>them <00:13:29.793>to <00:13:29.893>put <00:13:30.033>on <00:13:30.133>a <00:13:30.233>page. <00:13:30.473>Right. <00:13:30.893>And <00:13:31.033>so <00:13:31.153>you're <00:13:31.233>not <00:13:31.373>like <00:13:31.553>empowering <00:13:32.073>these <00:13:32.353>people <00:13:32.613>to <00:13:32.933>like <00:13:33.133>make <00:13:33.393>decisions <00:13:33.813>because <00:13:34.193>if <00:13:34.893>they <00:13:35.033>need <00:13:35.153>to <00:13:35.273>change <00:13:35.513>this <00:13:35.713>color, <00:13:35.993>they're <00:13:36.253>going <00:13:36.313>to <00:13:36.393>have <00:13:36.493>to <00:13:36.593>go <00:13:36.713>talk <00:13:36.933>to <00:13:37.053>the <00:13:37.153>manager <00:13:37.473>who's <00:13:37.733>then <00:13:37.833>going <00:13:37.953>to <00:13:38.033>have <00:13:38.133>to <00:13:38.233>go <00:13:38.353>get <00:13:38.493>the <00:13:38.613>color <00:13:38.873>approved <00:13:39.173>who's <00:13:39.373>going <00:13:39.453>to <00:13:39.513>like <00:13:39.873>people <00:13:40.133>just <00:13:40.353>sort <00:13:40.513>of <00:13:40.613>do <00:13:40.773>what <00:13:40.933>they <00:13:41.053>need <00:13:41.213>to <00:13:41.333>do <00:13:41.473>to <00:13:41.613>get <00:13:41.733>through <00:13:41.893>their <00:13:42.053>day. 31 00:13:42.493 --> 00:13:51.477 And <00:13:42.533>so <00:13:42.673>it's <00:13:42.833>sort <00:13:42.953>of <00:13:43.053>like <00:13:43.193>this <00:13:43.433>really <00:13:43.813>complicated <00:13:44.453>web <00:13:44.793>of <00:13:45.013>like <00:13:45.193>it's <00:13:45.653>not <00:13:45.793>just <00:13:45.973>that <00:13:46.193>the <00:13:46.373>site <00:13:46.653>has <00:13:46.893>a <00:13:47.033>bug. <00:13:47.533>It's <00:13:47.673>these <00:13:47.853>like <00:13:48.033>sort <00:13:48.173>of <00:13:48.333>systems <00:13:48.793>that. <00:13:49.537>Are <00:13:49.837>making <00:13:50.097>it <00:13:50.237>a <00:13:50.297>lot <00:13:50.377>harder <00:13:50.657>to <00:13:50.817>change <00:13:51.157>that. 32 00:13:51.737 --> 00:14:19.517 So I've been alive now for 50 cough years and during that time I remember walking around in the real world and I remember that there was almost nothing given over to accessibility in the real world, you know, like doorsteps and stairs, shops could open quite happily and they didn't have to provide a ramp or, you know, some kind of button which would enable the door to open and so on and so on. 33 00:14:19.537 --> 00:14:47.237 However, <00:14:20.637>since <00:14:20.877>I'm <00:14:21.197>going <00:14:21.317>to <00:14:21.417>say <00:14:21.617>kind <00:14:21.837>of <00:14:21.917>like <00:14:22.037>the <00:14:22.177>1970s, <00:14:24.077>maybe <00:14:24.177>the <00:14:24.317>1980s, <00:14:25.337>that <00:14:25.697>began <00:14:26.037>to <00:14:26.277>change <00:14:26.797>and <00:14:27.637>legislation <00:14:28.397>came <00:14:28.757>in <00:14:29.217>and <00:14:29.617>not <00:14:30.117>only <00:14:30.397>was <00:14:30.617>it <00:14:30.757>kind <00:14:30.917>of <00:14:30.997>like <00:14:31.117>morally <00:14:31.417>a <00:14:31.677>good <00:14:31.937>thing <00:14:32.157>to <00:14:32.417>do, <00:14:32.717>but <00:14:32.777>it <00:14:32.877>became <00:14:33.077>a <00:14:33.217>legal <00:14:33.437>thing <00:14:33.637>that <00:14:33.777>you <00:14:33.877>had <00:14:34.097>to <00:14:34.277>do. <00:14:34.577>I <00:14:35.837>find <00:14:36.117>it <00:14:36.277>so <00:14:36.717>curious <00:14:37.337>that <00:14:37.837>the <00:14:38.017>internet, <00:14:38.497>which <00:14:38.837>came <00:14:39.157>along <00:14:39.477>after <00:14:40.257>that <00:14:40.637>whole <00:14:41.057>wave <00:14:41.637>of <00:14:42.037>figuring <00:14:42.397>out <00:14:42.737>that <00:14:42.937>we <00:14:43.077>need <00:14:43.257>to <00:14:43.417>make <00:14:43.637>the <00:14:43.917>world <00:14:44.317>accessible, <00:14:45.357>the <00:14:45.797>internet <00:14:46.157>came <00:14:46.417>along <00:14:46.737>and... 34 00:14:48.963 --> 00:14:57.923 That <00:14:49.403>didn't <00:14:49.843>happen. <00:14:50.883>Why <00:14:51.323>was <00:14:52.183>it <00:14:52.323>not <00:14:52.523>mandatory <00:14:53.203>from <00:14:54.003>the <00:14:54.383>beginning <00:14:54.683>of <00:14:54.883>the <00:14:55.003>internet? <00:14:55.483>The <00:14:55.703>answer <00:14:55.943>is <00:14:56.123>I'll <00:14:56.283>never <00:14:56.483>know. <00:14:56.963>I <00:14:57.043>don't <00:14:57.183>know <00:14:57.283>why <00:14:57.463>that <00:14:57.643>was. 35 00:14:58.123 --> 00:15:25.983 Yeah, well, I mean, I could speculate. I think it probably has something to do with the people who built it didn't have that particular need. Okay. And because of the way the internet was originally conceived as a sort of like text-based thing that you're contacting this place with. And then like the browser came along. And so you have like people aren't thinking about where we currently are, which is it's a bunch of people using this to communicate and get along and like do all these things. 36 00:15:26.163 --> 00:16:17.515 And <00:15:26.203>it <00:15:26.363>was <00:15:26.523>just <00:15:26.683>sort <00:15:26.883>of <00:15:26.983>a <00:15:27.103>way <00:15:27.283>to <00:15:27.443>like <00:15:27.743>share <00:15:28.723>your, <00:15:29.183>you <00:15:29.803>know, <00:15:30.323>thoughts <00:15:30.743>about <00:15:31.243>this <00:15:31.603>thing. <00:15:32.083>And <00:15:32.203>then <00:15:32.363>so <00:15:32.543>it <00:15:32.703>just <00:15:32.863>wasn't <00:15:33.243>this <00:15:33.423>thing. <00:15:33.983>People <00:15:34.183>who <00:15:34.363>were <00:15:34.743>maybe <00:15:35.183>visually <00:15:35.563>impaired <00:15:35.903>in <00:15:36.103>some <00:15:36.263>way, <00:15:36.463>they <00:15:36.663>didn't <00:15:36.863>have <00:15:37.023>access <00:15:37.283>to

<00:15:37.443>it <00:15:37.563>in <00:15:37.583>the <00:15:37.663>first <00:15:37.863>place. <00:15:38.543>They <00:15:38.923>were <00:15:39.103>too <00:15:39.243>busy <00:15:39.543>trying <00:15:39.903>to <00:15:40.183>like <00:15:40.463>get, <00:15:40.943>you <00:15:41.463>know, <00:15:41.643>real <00:15:41.823>world <00:15:42.083>accommodations. <00:15:42.543>And <00:15:43.043>then <00:15:43.163>so <00:15:43.303>you <00:15:43.423>just <00:15:43.583>have <00:15:43.723>this <00:15:43.883>like <00:15:44.063>sort <00:15:44.163>of <00:15:44.283>hobbyist <00:15:44.743>in <00:15:44.863>their <00:15:44.983>garage <00:15:45.343>making <00:15:45.703>the <00:15:45.903>internet. <00:15:46.563>And <00:15:46.903>then... <00:15:47.535>It's <00:15:47.955>sort <00:15:48.075>of <00:15:48.195>probably <00:15:49.535>like <00:15:49.815>I'd <00:15:50.015>have <00:15:50.115>to <00:15:50.215>look <00:15:50.395>up <00:15:50.555>when <00:15:50.795>things <00:15:51.275>like <00:15:51.475>ARIA <00:15:51.815>and <00:15:52.135>screen <00:15:52.395>readers <00:15:52.775>and <00:15:53.235>other <00:15:53.555>technology <00:15:54.115>came <00:15:54.435>along <00:15:54.655>and <00:15:55.195>then <00:15:56.195>like <00:15:56.575>then <00:15:57.855>the <00:15:58.055>people <00:15:58.315>then <00:15:58.555>it <00:15:58.715>sort <00:15:58.875>of <00:15:58.995>became <00:15:59.255>this <00:15:59.475>runaway <00:15:59.775>train <00:16:00.035>where <00:16:00.335>you <00:16:00.735>know <00:16:00.895>it <00:16:01.735>got <00:16:01.935>overlooked <00:16:02.355>as <00:16:02.615>a <00:16:02.715>feature <00:16:02.995>that <00:16:03.355>should <00:16:03.515>be <00:16:03.695>included <00:16:04.075>in <00:16:04.475>things <00:16:05.115>it's <00:16:05.475>just <00:16:05.595>sort <00:16:05.795>of <00:16:05.895>the <00:16:06.035>nature <00:16:06.315>of <00:16:06.815>things <00:16:07.395>it's <00:16:07.635>the <00:16:07.735>same <00:16:07.895>with <00:16:08.055>the <00:16:08.155>laws <00:16:08.455>right <00:16:08.635>like <00:16:08.875>it's <00:16:09.595>not <00:16:09.875>it's <00:16:11.195>it's <00:16:11.515>hard <00:16:11.995>because <00:16:12.355>you <00:16:12.555>have <00:16:12.735>like <00:16:12.875>even <00:16:13.095>like <00:16:13.395>so <00:16:13.775>if <00:16:14.075>I'm <00:16:14.415>you <00:16:14.675>know <00:16:14.815>renting <00:16:15.235>it <00:16:15.615>my <00:16:15.935>you <00:16:16.255>know <00:16:16.315>I'm <00:16:16.595>living <00:16:16.795>in <00:16:16.895>an <00:16:16.975>apartment <00:16:17.215>I'm 37 00:16:17.515 --> 00:16:52.590 renting my apartment and I need my mother-in-law to get up the stairs well I can't do anything about that it's the same with like somebody who runs a shop who like is renting the space there it's already built it's already they can't it's up to the people who are building the things and they're trying to increase you know their revenue and cut corners and do all these things and so you know I think intentional legislation is is a way to get the people who People aren't us to care in a way that makes them accountable. And so hopefully the laws that are happening bring that accountability in the right way. 38 00:16:52.730 --> 00:17:21.350 Yeah, <00:16:53.030>I <00:16:53.090>guess <00:16:53.290>the <00:16:53.490>nice <00:16:53.710>thing <00:16:53.870>about <00:16:54.110>the <00:16:54.310>internet, <00:16:54.870>at <00:16:55.010>least <00:16:55.270>you <00:16:55.590>can <00:16:55.770>retrofit <00:16:56.390>it <00:16:56.550>easily. <00:16:57.230>You <00:16:57.290>know, <00:16:57.450>you <00:16:58.030>can't <00:16:58.310>retrofit <00:16:58.910>your <00:16:59.110>apartment <00:16:59.490>block. <00:17:00.110>Well, <00:17:00.390>not <00:17:00.650>easily <00:17:01.110>or <00:17:01.410>inexpensively. <00:17:02.350>I mean, <00:17:02.550>really <00:17:02.870>giant <00:17:03.310>amounts <00:17:03.710>of <00:17:03.810>money <00:17:03.990>to <00:17:04.170>make <00:17:04.350>that <00:17:04.630>kind <00:17:04.910>of <00:17:05.010>thing <00:17:05.190>happen. <00:17:05.570>But <00:17:06.270>the <00:17:06.550>internet, <00:17:07.250>you <00:17:07.730>can <00:17:07.990>do <00:17:08.270>it. <00:17:08.690>And <00:17:08.950>I <00:17:09.050>suppose <00:17:09.370>one <00:17:09.690>of <00:17:09.770>the <00:17:09.870>messages <00:17:10.210>when <00:17:10.550>you <00:17:10.750>wrote <00:17:11.010>to <00:17:11.170>me <00:17:11.350>and <00:17:11.490>we <00:17:11.630>got <00:17:11.870>into, <00:17:12.150>you <00:17:12.470>know, <00:17:12.610>exchanging <00:17:12.970>show <00:17:13.190>notes <00:17:13.390>and <00:17:13.530>things <00:17:13.670>like <00:17:13.810>that, <00:17:14.030>one <00:17:14.090>of <00:17:14.210>the <00:17:14.290>things <00:17:14.450>that <00:17:14.610>you <00:17:14.910>were <00:17:15.770>keen <00:17:17.070>to <00:17:17.330>discuss <00:17:17.730>was <00:17:18.030>that <00:17:18.370>we <00:17:18.510>can <00:17:18.710>retrofit <00:17:19.430>one <00:17:20.650>bit <00:17:20.830>at <00:17:20.970>a <00:17:21.030>time. 39 00:17:21.350 --> 00:17:41.190 It's <00:17:22.090>not <00:17:22.250>like <00:17:22.450>we <00:17:22.630>have <00:17:22.810>to <00:17:23.030>open <00:17:23.530>up <00:17:23.690>the <00:17:23.830>jigsaw <00:17:24.330>puzzle <00:17:24.750>box <00:17:25.310>and <00:17:25.570>the <00:17:25.750>jigsaw <00:17:26.330>puzzle <00:17:26.630>is <00:17:26.870>done <00:17:27.130>for <00:17:27.530>us. <00:17:27.930>It's <00:17:28.050>more <00:17:28.270>like, <00:17:28.650>OK, <00:17:29.030>there's <00:17:29.390>all <00:17:29.510>the <00:17:29.630>pieces. <00:17:30.450>Now <00:17:30.890>it's <00:17:31.110>time <00:17:31.350>to <00:17:31.510>sort <00:17:31.650>of <00:17:31.730>put <00:17:31.870>the <00:17:31.990>pieces <00:17:32.270>together <00:17:32.650>and <00:17:33.070>slowly <00:17:33.770>but <00:17:34.070>surely <00:17:34.570>we'll <00:17:35.630>arrive <00:17:36.190>where <00:17:36.870>we <00:17:37.070>arrive, <00:17:37.530>which <00:17:37.650>is <00:17:37.810>the <00:17:37.930>completed

<00:17:38.230>jigsaw <00:17:38.670>puzzle, <00:17:39.250>which <00:17:39.430>is, <00:17:39.810>you <00:17:39.950>know, <00:17:40.170>supposed <00:17:40.410>to <00:17:40.570>sound <00:17:40.770>like <00:17:41.030>that. 40 00:17:41.350 --> 00:17:51.830 I <00:17:41.450>mean, <00:17:41.610>I <00:17:41.690>like <00:17:41.910>that <00:17:42.090>because, <00:17:42.830>first <00:17:43.390>of <00:17:43.530>all, <00:17:43.590>all <00:17:43.750>puzzles <00:17:44.010>are <00:17:44.190>different, <00:17:44.590>right? <00:17:44.790>Like <00:17:44.910>there's <00:17:45.190>this <00:17:45.370>person <00:17:45.670>who's <00:17:45.970>started <00:17:46.230>putting <00:17:46.430>out <00:17:46.730>all <00:17:47.130>edge <00:17:47.390>piece <00:17:47.550>puzzles <00:17:48.030>or <00:17:48.270>whatever. <00:17:48.530>And <00:17:48.830>so, <00:17:49.070>like, <00:17:49.290>the <00:17:49.590>difficulty <00:17:49.910>level <00:17:50.210>is <00:17:50.310>a <00:17:50.430>lot <00:17:50.550>harder <00:17:50.910>to <00:17:51.490>start. 41 00:17:53.370 --> 00:18:28.070 Yeah, <00:17:53.810>I <00:17:54.250>like <00:17:54.590>their <00:17:55.270>marketing <00:17:55.850>and <00:17:56.050>stuff <00:17:56.250>too. <00:17:56.550>I <00:17:56.910>think <00:17:57.390>it's <00:17:58.410>like <00:17:58.490>Yetch <00:17:58.850>or <00:17:58.950>something. <00:17:59.490>They're <00:17:59.570>a <00:17:59.890>lot <00:17:59.990>of <00:18:00.090>fun. <00:18:00.430>And <00:18:00.650>if <00:18:00.830>I <00:18:00.970>had <00:18:01.210>all <00:18:01.470>the <00:18:01.610>money, <00:18:02.010>I <00:18:02.430>would <00:18:02.550>be <00:18:02.650>buying <00:18:02.930>every <00:18:03.350>one <00:18:03.550>of <00:18:03.690>their <00:18:03.830>products. <00:18:05.250>So <00:18:05.690>they <00:18:05.850>put <00:18:06.050>out <00:18:06.230>an <00:18:06.430>edge <00:18:06.590>piece <00:18:06.750>puzzle. <00:18:08.190>So <00:18:08.630>it's <00:18:09.030>a <00:18:09.250>website <00:18:10.450>that's <00:18:10.730>got <00:18:10.830>a <00:18:10.930>lot <00:18:11.030>of <00:18:11.130>complexity, <00:18:11.590>it's <00:18:12.010>a <00:18:12.070>lot <00:18:12.190>harder <00:18:12.410>to <00:18:12.530>put <00:18:12.610>together, <00:18:12.990>but <00:18:13.390>there <00:18:14.390>are <00:18:14.610>still <00:18:14.850>things <00:18:15.130>you <00:18:15.330>can <00:18:15.490>do. <00:18:15.750>And <00:18:16.070>then, <00:18:16.650>you <00:18:16.710>know, <00:18:16.850>when <00:18:16.930>somebody <00:18:17.130>sits <00:18:17.350>down <00:18:17.510>to <00:18:17.610>put <00:18:17.750>together <00:18:17.970>a <00:18:18.150>puzzle, <00:18:18.510>everybody's <00:18:18.850>got <00:18:18.950>a <00:18:19.070>different <00:18:19.270>strategy. <00:18:20.030>Maybe <00:18:20.190>they <00:18:20.370>put <00:18:20.670>colors <00:18:21.150>together <00:18:21.510>or <00:18:21.770>shapes <00:18:21.990>together, <00:18:22.330>or <00:18:22.690>they <00:18:22.850>start <00:18:23.150>with <00:18:23.350>the <00:18:23.510>corners <00:18:23.930>or, <00:18:24.590>like, <00:18:25.010>there's <00:18:25.390>just <00:18:25.510>so <00:18:25.670>many <00:18:25.810>ways <00:18:26.010>to <00:18:26.150>go <00:18:26.290>about <00:18:26.730>putting <00:18:27.330>that <00:18:27.490>puzzle <00:18:27.710>together. 42 00:18:28.890 --> 00:18:54.785 But <00:18:29.290>the <00:18:29.690>important <00:18:30.150>part <00:18:30.510>is <00:18:30.990>the <00:18:31.190>starting <00:18:31.550>and <00:18:31.850>you <00:18:31.950>just <00:18:32.110>have <00:18:32.250>to <00:18:32.350>be <00:18:32.490>like, <00:18:32.790>yeah, <00:18:33.050>you <00:18:33.130>know <00:18:33.210>what, <00:18:33.390>I <00:18:33.490>think <00:18:33.630>I'm <00:18:33.750>going <00:18:33.830>to <00:18:33.890>put <00:18:34.010>this <00:18:34.270>puzzle <00:18:34.650>together. <00:18:35.370>And <00:18:35.770>if <00:18:35.910>you <00:18:35.970>don't <00:18:36.190>have <00:18:36.910>a <00:18:37.210>strategy <00:18:37.570>to <00:18:37.790>do <00:18:37.950>it, <00:18:38.310>then <00:18:38.450>you <00:18:38.650>probably <00:18:38.870>shouldn't <00:18:39.090>put <00:18:39.210>together <00:18:39.450>the <00:18:39.610>puzzle <00:18:39.870>and <00:18:40.490>you <00:18:41.030>shouldn't <00:18:41.210>have <00:18:41.370>a <00:18:41.450>website <00:18:41.730>if <00:18:41.950>you're <00:18:42.050>not <00:18:42.170>going <00:18:42.270>to, <00:18:42.450>like, <00:18:43.190>put <00:18:43.430>the <00:18:43.590>effort <00:18:43.910>in. <00:18:44.210>You <00:18:44.590>put <00:18:44.750>all <00:18:44.890>this <00:18:45.050>effort <00:18:45.330>into <00:18:45.710>creating <00:18:46.350>content <00:18:46.730>and <00:18:47.010>making <00:18:47.150>images <00:18:47.490>and <00:18:47.770>doing <00:18:47.890>all <00:18:48.030>this <00:18:48.170>stuff <00:18:48.390>and, <00:18:48.590>like, <00:18:48.750>don't <00:18:48.850>you <00:18:48.910>want <00:18:49.010>people <00:18:49.190>to <00:18:49.330>see <00:18:49.730>it? <00:18:50.070>Yeah, <00:18:50.590>right. <00:18:50.770>Like, <00:18:51.010>if <00:18:51.150>you're <00:18:51.250>not... <00:18:51.645>Are <00:18:51.985>you going to <00:18:52.045>care <00:18:52.365>about <00:18:52.685>the <00:18:52.885>people <00:18:53.105>coming <00:18:53.365>to <00:18:53.485>your <00:18:53.565>site? <00:18:53.925>Why <00:18:54.005>have <00:18:54.205>it <00:18:54.265>in <00:18:54.325>the <00:18:54.385>first <00:18:54.565>place? 43 00:18:55.345 --> 00:19:03.005 So <00:18:55.465>the <00:18:55.985>idea, <00:18:57.105>I <00:18:57.165>think, <00:18:57.405>for <00:18:57.505>a <00:18:57.625>lot <00:18:57.765>of <00:18:57.885>people <00:18:58.205>is <00:18:58.585>that <00:18:58.805>accessibility <00:18:59.385>is <00:19:00.325>a <00:19:00.805>scary <00:19:01.665>retrofit <00:19:02.465>process. 44 00:19:04.565 --> 00:19:11.205 Maybe <00:19:05.005>they've <00:19:05.445>got <00:19:05.545>a <00:19:05.685>backlog <00:19:06.605>of <00:19:07.025>50, <00:19:07.925>20, <00:19:08.525>whatever, <00:19:09.105>100 <00:19:09.565>websites

<00:19:10.065>that <00:19:10.285>they've <00:19:10.505>built <00:19:10.605>over <00:19:10.825>time. 45 00:19:13.585 --> 00:19:40.525 The <00:19:14.025>landscape <00:19:14.465>has <00:19:14.745>moved <00:19:14.985>a <00:19:15.145>little <00:19:15.265>bit <00:19:15.425>now <00:19:15.645>where <00:19:15.825>we've <00:19:16.005>got <00:19:16.185>a <00:19:16.405>legal <00:19:16.865>framework. <00:19:17.425>We <00:19:17.805>certainly <00:19:18.065>do <00:19:18.225>in <00:19:18.345>this <00:19:18.505>part <00:19:18.725>of <00:19:18.825>the <00:19:18.865>world, <00:19:19.085>and <00:19:19.165>I'm <00:19:19.245>sure <00:19:19.425>the <00:19:19.685>case <00:19:19.965>is, <00:19:20.225>you <00:19:20.525>know, <00:19:20.685>all <00:19:20.865>over <00:19:21.085>the <00:19:21.365>globe. <00:19:21.845>There's <00:19:21.905>bits <00:19:22.105>and <00:19:22.245>pieces <00:19:22.445>of <00:19:22.585>legislation <00:19:23.045>dropping <00:19:23.445>in <00:19:23.705>different <00:19:24.505>locales. <00:19:25.665>And <00:19:26.065>I <00:19:26.405>think <00:19:26.545>a <00:19:26.645>misunderstanding <00:19:27.125>is <00:19:27.545>that <00:19:27.785>you've <00:19:28.285>got <00:19:28.405>to <00:19:28.505>have <00:19:28.665>the <00:19:28.825>full <00:19:29.045>jigsaw <00:19:29.525>piece. <00:19:30.005>You <00:19:30.045>know, <00:19:30.205>in <00:19:30.285>other <00:19:30.425>words, <00:19:30.745>you've <00:19:30.845>got <00:19:30.945>to <00:19:31.045>spend <00:19:31.245>hours <00:19:31.585>and <00:19:31.705>hours <00:19:31.925>and <00:19:32.045>hours <00:19:32.445>making <00:19:33.185>it <00:19:33.425>perfect. <00:19:33.805>But <00:19:34.205>that <00:19:34.505>is <00:19:35.105>not <00:19:35.365>my <00:19:35.725>understanding, <00:19:36.445>at <00:19:36.585>least <00:19:36.845>at <00:19:37.045>this <00:19:37.245>point. <00:19:37.625>So <00:19:37.685>we're <00:19:37.865>recording <00:19:38.205>this <00:19:38.445>in <00:19:38.605>July <00:19:39.165>2026. 46 00:19:41.485 --> 00:20:19.325 And <00:19:42.025>really, <00:19:42.725>it <00:19:42.785>feels <00:19:43.045>like <00:19:43.245>you <00:19:43.425>can <00:19:43.565>be <00:19:43.685>much <00:19:43.885>more <00:19:44.265>thoughtful <00:19:45.485>about <00:19:45.785>this <00:19:46.025>and <00:19:46.185>sanguine <00:19:46.765>about <00:19:47.165>the <00:19:47.405>legal <00:19:47.725>hammer <00:19:48.045>coming <00:19:48.325>down. <00:19:48.865>And <00:19:49.365>you <00:19:49.625>can... <00:19:50.125>You <00:19:50.405>tell <00:19:50.985>me <00:19:51.085>what <00:19:51.185>it's <00:19:51.345>like <00:19:51.465>where <00:19:51.605>you <00:19:51.745>are, <00:19:52.025>but <00:19:52.105>it <00:19:52.445>feels <00:19:52.705>to <00:19:52.825>me <00:19:52.945>as <00:19:53.105>if, <00:19:53.945>really, <00:19:54.585>the <00:19:54.905>Rubicon <00:19:56.125>here <00:19:56.405>is <00:19:56.585>that <00:19:56.705>you've <00:19:56.905>got <00:19:57.085>to <00:19:57.265>be <00:19:57.485>doing <00:19:57.785>something. <00:19:59.405>You've <00:19:59.765>got <00:19:59.905>to, <00:20:00.125>you <00:20:00.765>know, <00:20:00.945>demonstrate <00:20:01.365>that <00:20:01.765>your <00:20:02.085>journey <00:20:02.445>a <00:20:02.665>year <00:20:02.845>ago, <00:20:03.585>where <00:20:04.025>you <00:20:04.145>were <00:20:04.305>a <00:20:04.445>year <00:20:04.565>ago, <00:20:04.925>is <00:20:04.985>different <00:20:05.245>from <00:20:05.465>where <00:20:05.645>it <00:20:05.785>is <00:20:05.885>now, <00:20:06.105>but <00:20:06.165>it <00:20:06.285>doesn't <00:20:06.525>have <00:20:06.665>to <00:20:06.805>be <00:20:07.005>carte <00:20:07.325>blanche. <00:20:07.685>It <00:20:07.825>doesn't <00:20:08.005>have <00:20:08.105>to <00:20:08.185>be <00:20:08.285>the <00:20:08.425>entire <00:20:08.805>thing. <00:20:09.705>It <00:20:10.065>can <00:20:10.185>just <00:20:10.385>be <00:20:10.645>one <00:20:11.025>little <00:20:11.265>bit. <00:20:11.665>Like, <00:20:11.865>I <00:20:11.925>don't <00:20:12.025>know, <00:20:12.285>you <00:20:12.365>maybe <00:20:12.825>pick <00:20:13.105>a <00:20:13.465>thing, <00:20:14.965>like <00:20:15.065>your <00:20:15.265>contrast <00:20:15.685>might <00:20:15.985>be <00:20:16.125>the <00:20:16.245>thing, <00:20:16.625>or <00:20:16.725>underlining <00:20:17.265>the <00:20:17.445>links <00:20:17.725>might <00:20:17.965>be <00:20:18.105>a <00:20:18.205>thing, <00:20:18.545>or <00:20:18.605>whatever <00:20:18.805>it <00:20:18.965>may <00:20:19.105>be. 47 00:20:19.325 --> 00:20:20.925 Is <00:20:19.765>that <00:20:19.885>the <00:20:20.005>case <00:20:20.285>where <00:20:20.505>you <00:20:20.665>are? 48 00:20:22.085 --> 00:21:11.150 Yeah, <00:20:22.905>there <00:20:23.105>were <00:20:23.725>legislation <00:20:24.565>that <00:20:26.265>was <00:20:26.645>supposed <00:20:26.905>to <00:20:27.125>go <00:20:27.265>into <00:20:27.425>effect <00:20:27.825>for, <00:20:28.365>like, <00:20:29.105>government <00:20:29.485>websites <00:20:30.085>and <00:20:30.545>things <00:20:30.965>that <00:20:31.165>got <00:20:31.345>government <00:20:31.685>funding, <00:20:32.105>and <00:20:32.405>I <00:20:32.525>think <00:20:32.705>there <00:20:32.905>are <00:20:33.105>certain <00:20:33.425>laws <00:20:33.625>that <00:20:33.785>apply <00:20:34.025>to <00:20:34.145>that, <00:20:34.385>but <00:20:34.645>certain <00:20:35.105>deadlines <00:20:35.405>got <00:20:35.645>pushed <00:20:35.925>back <00:20:36.125>a <00:20:36.305>year <00:20:36.625>or <00:20:36.985>two <00:20:37.205>years, <00:20:37.565>depending <00:20:37.825>on <00:20:38.085>who <00:20:38.265>you <00:20:38.385>are, <00:20:38.725>and <00:20:38.825>so <00:20:38.985>it's <00:20:39.185>like <00:20:39.345>a <00:20:39.525>very <00:20:39.705>fuzzy <00:20:40.045>area <00:20:40.565>right <00:20:40.805>now. <00:20:41.065>I think <00:20:41.205>certain <00:20:41.485>states <00:20:41.805>are <00:20:42.445>trying <00:20:42.685>to <00:20:42.865>take <00:20:43.065>steps <00:20:43.465>to <00:20:43.885>make <00:20:44.945>the <00:20:46.330>I <00:20:46.370>think

accessibility <00:20:47.050>lawsuits <00:20:48.030>be <00:20:49.310>legitimate. <00:20:50.130>So <00:20:50.150>instead <00:20:50.390>of <00:20:50.550>just <00:20:50.710>crawling <00:20:51.070>sites <00:20:51.430>and <00:20:51.630>sending <00:20:51.890>out <00:20:52.090>things <00:20:52.370>and <00:20:52.710>then <00:20:53.170>going <00:20:53.550>into <00:20:53.790>court <00:20:54.050>and <00:20:54.370>wasting <00:20:54.930>everyone's <00:20:55.350>time, <00:20:55.810>it <00:20:55.870>has <00:20:56.050>to <00:20:56.150>be <00:20:56.310>like <00:20:56.490>somebody <00:20:56.750>who's <00:20:56.970>actually <00:20:57.290>going <00:20:57.670>to <00:20:57.810>use <00:20:57.990>the <00:20:58.150>site, <00:20:58.470>and <00:20:59.130>they <00:20:59.270>actually <00:20:59.590>have <00:20:59.730>to <00:20:59.810>have <00:20:59.910>a <00:20:59.990>problem <00:21:00.310>and <00:21:00.630>the <00:21:00.750>person <00:21:01.010>has <00:21:01.210>to <00:21:01.350>not <00:21:01.590>have <00:21:01.770>responded. <00:21:02.510>And <00:21:02.570>so <00:21:02.690>I <00:21:02.790>think <00:21:02.970>maybe <00:21:03.210>California <00:21:03.650>is <00:21:03.850>trying <00:21:04.010>to <00:21:04.150>do <00:21:04.270>that <00:21:04.550>and <00:21:04.770>there's <00:21:05.250>like, <00:21:05.490>so <00:21:05.570>there <00:21:05.950>are <00:21:06.150>certain <00:21:06.470>states, <00:21:06.830>we're <00:21:07.430>sort <00:21:07.590>of <00:21:07.690>this <00:21:07.870>weird <00:21:08.370>countries <00:21:09.310>within <00:21:09.610>a <00:21:10.130>country <00:21:10.470>kind <00:21:10.790>of <00:21:10.890>thing. 49 00:21:11.150 --> 00:21:33.350 So <00:21:11.370>like <00:21:11.530>you <00:21:11.630>have <00:21:11.830>these <00:21:12.010>areas <00:21:12.330>that <00:21:12.510>are <00:21:12.610>trying <00:21:12.830>to <00:21:12.990>do <00:21:13.270>certain <00:21:13.690>things, <00:21:14.030>and <00:21:14.650>then <00:21:14.770>overall, <00:21:15.730>you <00:21:15.770>know, <00:21:16.010>however <00:21:16.270>the <00:21:16.470>country <00:21:16.710>is <00:21:16.850>going <00:21:16.970>to <00:21:17.090>do <00:21:17.950>whatever <00:21:18.190>they're <00:21:18.430>going <00:21:18.530>to <00:21:18.610>do. <00:21:18.930>But <00:21:19.030>the <00:21:19.190>more <00:21:19.450>it's <00:21:19.750>kind <00:21:19.890>of <00:21:19.970>like <00:21:20.090>privacy, <00:21:20.630>right? <00:21:20.850>So <00:21:20.910>like, <00:21:21.210>if <00:21:21.650>you're <00:21:21.830>going <00:21:21.950>to <00:21:22.170>have <00:21:23.510>anybody <00:21:23.830>who's <00:21:24.110>going <00:21:24.290>to <00:21:24.430>your <00:21:24.530>website <00:21:24.790>in <00:21:24.950>California <00:21:25.370>at <00:21:25.690>all, <00:21:25.950>then <00:21:26.030>you <00:21:26.150>kind <00:21:26.310>of <00:21:26.410>have <00:21:26.550>to <00:21:26.650>pay <00:21:26.810>attention <00:21:27.130>to <00:21:27.470>like <00:21:27.810>what <00:21:28.050>their <00:21:28.230>privacy <00:21:28.570>laws <00:21:28.830>are <00:21:29.130>and <00:21:29.370>what <00:21:29.530>their, <00:21:29.810>you <00:21:30.030>know, <00:21:31.050>data <00:21:31.250>takedown <00:21:31.790>things <00:21:32.410>are <00:21:32.750>or <00:21:33.070>whatever. 50 00:21:33.510 --> 00:21:43.830 And <00:21:33.550>so <00:21:33.710>like <00:21:33.970>it <00:21:34.570>by <00:21:35.010>having <00:21:35.390>at <00:21:35.590>least <00:21:35.730>a <00:21:35.890>couple <00:21:36.090>of <00:21:36.250>states <00:21:36.510>care <00:21:37.090>about <00:21:37.390>that, <00:21:37.730>it <00:21:37.810>can <00:21:37.970>then <00:21:38.210>maybe <00:21:38.810>You <00:21:39.050>know, <00:21:39.310>encourages <00:21:39.670>people <00:21:40.010>in <00:21:40.310>all <00:21:40.550>of <00:21:40.690>the <00:21:40.810>states <00:21:41.090>to <00:21:41.370>have <00:21:41.790>to <00:21:41.930>adhere <00:21:42.270>to <00:21:42.590>those <00:21:43.310>requirements. 51 00:21:44.250 --> 00:22:16.290 Yeah, I remember having conversations several years ago before any of the legislation was on the books, but it appeared to be coming. And there was a great fear that the ambulance-chasing lawyers were going to come out of the woodwork and just essentially do a Getty Images kind of approach. Just scrape the internet, find every single thing that could possibly be wrong anywhere, and then just with a really blunt instrument issue legal letters, which then people, you know, that's just a whole mess. 52 00:22:16.690 --> 00:22:40.710 That, <00:22:17.030>I <00:22:17.170>don't <00:22:17.830>know <00:22:18.290>if <00:22:18.590>that <00:22:18.770>happened, <00:22:19.170>but <00:22:19.270>certainly <00:22:19.570>I <00:22:19.770>don't <00:22:20.070>have <00:22:20.290>any <00:22:20.570>experience <00:22:21.810>of <00:22:22.070>that <00:22:22.230>happening. <00:22:22.670>Like <00:22:23.190>you <00:22:23.290>say, <00:22:23.610>perhaps <00:22:23.870>government <00:22:24.570>websites <00:22:25.090>where, <00:22:25.710>you <00:22:25.830>know, <00:22:26.110>you're <00:22:26.690>filing <00:22:26.970>your <00:22:27.150>taxes <00:22:27.510>and <00:22:27.710>this <00:22:27.850>is <00:22:27.950>the <00:22:28.050>only <00:22:28.330>way <00:22:28.570>to <00:22:28.750>now <00:22:28.950>do <00:22:29.170>it <00:22:29.350>is <00:22:29.510>online. <00:22:29.970>Well, <00:22:31.410>sorry, <00:22:31.890>you <00:22:31.970>don't <00:22:32.110>have <00:22:32.210>a <00:22:32.290>choice <00:22:32.530>about <00:22:32.770>that <00:22:33.030>because <00:22:33.310>you <00:22:33.630>can't <00:22:34.070>exclude. <00:22:34.950>Yeah, <00:22:35.070>it's <00:22:35.310>the <00:22:35.790>disability <00:22:36.250>tax <00:22:36.690>too, <00:22:37.370>that <00:22:37.490>like, <00:22:37.990>yeah, <00:22:38.290>you <00:22:38.390>can <00:22:38.550>do <00:22:38.690>it, <00:22:38.910>but <00:22:38.990>you <00:22:39.090>got <00:22:39.230>to <00:22:39.330>go <00:22:39.430>hire <00:22:39.690>somebody <00:22:40.050>to <00:22:40.230>pay. 53 00:22:41.375 --> 00:23:11.155 In

<00:22:42.035>order <00:22:42.235>to <00:22:42.435>pay <00:22:42.655>extra <00:22:42.995>to <00:22:43.175>then <00:22:43.395>do <00:22:43.595>it. <00:22:44.515>Or <00:22:44.955>there's <00:22:45.455>just <00:22:45.595>no <00:22:45.755>alternative. <00:22:46.495>I <00:22:46.735>think <00:22:46.995>for <00:22:47.275>a <00:22:47.435>lot <00:22:47.555>of <00:22:47.695>regular <00:22:48.035>people, <00:22:48.435>that <00:22:49.775>doesn't <00:22:50.135>matter <00:22:50.455>as <00:22:50.855>much <00:22:51.035>because <00:22:51.195>they're <00:22:51.315>not <00:22:51.435>providing <00:22:51.835>that <00:22:52.075>essential <00:22:52.655>type <00:22:52.875>service. <00:22:53.535>And <00:22:53.975>so <00:22:54.135>it's <00:22:54.315>more <00:22:54.575>just <00:22:55.055>the <00:22:56.455>wherewithal <00:22:56.915>to <00:22:57.095>know, <00:22:58.215>hey, <00:22:58.755>this <00:22:59.335>can't <00:22:59.535>be <00:22:59.595>read. <00:22:59.835>I <00:22:59.875>mean, <00:23:00.055>people <00:23:00.215>still <00:23:00.435>do <00:23:00.575>that <00:23:00.715>in <00:23:00.835>print. <00:23:01.375>They're <00:23:01.515>printing <00:23:01.935>dark <00:23:02.675>yellow <00:23:03.015>on <00:23:03.335>a <00:23:03.495>bright <00:23:04.235>yellow. <00:23:04.755>And <00:23:04.795>you're <00:23:04.915>like, <00:23:05.095>nobody <00:23:05.255>can <00:23:05.475>read <00:23:05.795>that. <00:23:06.095>Nobody <00:23:06.495>can <00:23:06.715>understand <00:23:07.875>and <00:23:08.175>visit <00:23:08.435>your <00:23:08.855>event <00:23:09.295>because <00:23:09.615>they <00:23:09.875>can't <00:23:10.255>see <00:23:10.575>what <00:23:10.715>the <00:23:10.815>date <00:23:10.975>is. 54 00:23:11.155 --> 00:23:38.655 Like, <00:23:11.355>so <00:23:11.835>it's <00:23:11.995>just <00:23:12.135>sort <00:23:12.295>of <00:23:12.415>just <00:23:12.675>basic, <00:23:13.195>you <00:23:13.575>know, <00:23:13.735>usability <00:23:14.035>things. <00:23:14.635>Nobody <00:23:14.835>can <00:23:15.055>read <00:23:15.295>your <00:23:15.495>font <00:23:15.795>like <00:23:15.975>it's <00:23:16.175>pretty <00:23:16.475>and <00:23:16.975>but <00:23:17.355>use <00:23:17.615>that <00:23:17.835>for <00:23:18.075>like <00:23:18.375>background <00:23:19.295>or <00:23:19.615>whatever. <00:23:19.935>Nobody. <00:23:20.475>So <00:23:20.735>it's <00:23:20.895>just <00:23:21.015>sort <00:23:21.175>of <00:23:21.315>the <00:23:21.495>basic <00:23:21.875>principles <00:23:22.375>of <00:23:22.675>good <00:23:22.875>design. <00:23:23.175>You <00:23:23.375>know, <00:23:23.515>you're <00:23:23.595>never <00:23:23.735>going <00:23:23.875>to <00:23:23.975>get <00:23:24.155>everybody <00:23:24.495>to <00:23:24.715>do <00:23:24.955>it <00:23:25.235>right. <00:23:25.735>But <00:23:25.875>that <00:23:27.075>could <00:23:27.255>be <00:23:27.415>what <00:23:27.595>sets <00:23:27.775>you <00:23:27.935>apart <00:23:28.335>in, <00:23:29.195>you <00:23:29.495>know, <00:23:29.975>somebody <00:23:30.335>making <00:23:30.735>the <00:23:30.895>difference <00:23:31.135>between <00:23:31.355>somebody <00:23:31.695>being <00:23:31.995>like, <00:23:32.475>oh, <00:23:32.695>hey, <00:23:32.955>and <00:23:33.095>it's <00:23:33.335>like <00:23:33.835>I <00:23:33.935>said, <00:23:34.135>it's <00:23:34.315>just <00:23:34.535>bugs <00:23:34.955>that <00:23:35.135>are <00:23:35.235>on <00:23:35.435>your <00:23:35.595>site <00:23:35.895>that <00:23:36.515>you <00:23:37.135>decide <00:23:37.435>to <00:23:37.575>care <00:23:37.755>enough <00:23:38.015>to <00:23:38.315>fix. 55 00:23:38.655 --> 00:24:14.020 Like <00:23:38.955>if <00:23:39.135>somebody <00:23:39.375>is <00:23:39.475>going <00:23:39.575>to <00:23:39.655>sit <00:23:39.795>there <00:23:39.975>and <00:23:40.095>try <00:23:40.215>to <00:23:40.355>contact <00:23:40.675>you <00:23:41.055>and <00:23:41.635>your <00:23:41.775>form <00:23:41.995>doesn't <00:23:42.295>work. <00:23:42.935>Well, <00:23:43.475>what's <00:23:43.655>the <00:23:43.755>point? <00:23:44.600>Your <00:23:45.460>whole <00:23:45.760>reason <00:23:46.060>for <00:23:46.260>this <00:23:46.420>website <00:23:46.660>is <00:23:46.840>to <00:23:46.940>have <00:23:47.040>somebody <00:23:47.280>contact <00:23:47.640>you. <00:23:49.680>I <00:23:50.260>find <00:23:50.780>forms <00:23:51.260>and <00:23:51.760>motion <00:23:52.380>to <00:23:52.740>be <00:23:52.920>the <00:23:53.080>most <00:23:53.300>irritating <00:23:53.700>aspects <00:23:54.280>of <00:23:54.500>things <00:23:54.780>and <00:23:55.300>they're <00:23:55.560>the <00:23:55.800>most <00:23:56.200>complex <00:23:57.320>for <00:23:58.460>regular <00:23:59.340>people. <00:24:00.480>Forms <00:24:01.060>are <00:24:01.900>so <00:24:02.200>hard <00:24:02.400>to <00:24:02.520>get <00:24:02.660>right <00:24:02.960>visually <00:24:04.660>and <00:24:05.620>to <00:24:05.980>make <00:24:06.220>sure <00:24:06.420>that <00:24:06.640>things <00:24:07.240>are <00:24:07.460>indicating <00:24:07.860>when <00:24:08.220>errors <00:24:08.640>are <00:24:08.920>there <00:24:09.200>and <00:24:09.500>what <00:24:09.880>am <00:24:10.300>I <00:24:10.400>supposed <00:24:10.580>to <00:24:10.740>do <00:24:10.900>with <00:24:11.060>this <00:24:11.240>field <00:24:11.580>or <00:24:11.840>it <00:24:12.540>timed <00:24:12.900>out <00:24:13.180>and <00:24:13.340>didn't <00:24:13.600>tell <00:24:13.800>you. 56 00:24:14.020 --> 00:24:40.920 Now <00:24:14.300>you <00:24:14.460>have <00:24:14.600>to <00:24:14.720>refill <00:24:15.040>it <00:24:15.200>all <00:24:15.340>out <00:24:15.560>and <00:24:15.680>you're <00:24:15.800>like, <00:24:16.180>screw <00:24:16.380>this, <00:24:16.680>I'm <00:24:16.720>not <00:24:16.820>going <00:24:16.940>to <00:24:16.980>fill <00:24:17.120>out <00:24:17.180>your <00:24:17.280>stupid <00:24:17.480>form. <00:24:20.480>It's <00:24:20.880>the <00:24:20.980>most <00:24:21.180>irritating <00:24:21.540>aspect <00:24:21.960>of <00:24:22.180>websites <00:24:22.460>anyway. <00:24:23.480>Imagine <00:24:23.880>you're

<00:24:24.340>trying <00:24:24.460>to <00:24:24.560>use <00:24:24.760>this <00:24:25.000>and <00:24:25.260>hit <00:24:25.460>enter <00:24:25.780>and <00:24:26.140>nothing <00:24:26.580>happens. <00:24:27.340>It's <00:24:27.680>because <00:24:27.880>there's <00:24:28.100>an <00:24:28.200>error <00:24:28.440>but <00:24:28.620>it <00:24:28.780>didn't <00:24:29.040>tell <00:24:29.220>you <00:24:29.360>that <00:24:29.520>there's <00:24:29.720>an <00:24:29.800>error <00:24:30.040>because <00:24:30.340>you're <00:24:30.540>not <00:24:30.740>seeing <00:24:31.080>the <00:24:31.260>site, <00:24:31.480>you're <00:24:31.620>hearing <00:24:31.860>the <00:24:32.020>site. <00:24:32.760>I <00:24:33.160>think <00:24:33.880>it's <00:24:34.020>just <00:24:34.120>these <00:24:34.300>basic <00:24:34.640>things <00:24:34.980>that <00:24:35.180>you <00:24:35.300>care <00:24:35.580>about <00:24:35.900>people <00:24:36.260>and <00:24:36.680>wanting <00:24:37.700>them <00:24:37.920>to <00:24:38.080>have <00:24:38.240>a <00:24:38.320>good <00:24:38.420>experience <00:24:38.820>when <00:24:39.040>they <00:24:39.160>come <00:24:39.340>to <00:24:39.480>your <00:24:39.600>site. <00:24:39.940>Why <00:24:40.280>wouldn't <00:24:40.460>you <00:24:40.540>want <00:24:40.700>that? 57 00:24:41.360 --> 00:25:10.420 So let's use an example of something that you've done. So this may be a client website or maybe a website of your own or what have you. What's been your approach to it? Maybe low-hanging fruit, maybe that's a good phrase that we could use. What are some of the, I'm doing air quotes, the simple things that you could do that you would recommend somebody to take a chunk out of their website, to at least sort of feel like I did the first step. 58 00:25:10.420 --> 00:25:23.760 I've <00:25:10.660>got <00:25:10.780>myself, <00:25:11.360>the <00:25:11.440>journey <00:25:11.780>has <00:25:12.000>begun. <00:25:12.620>I <00:25:13.100>can <00:25:13.280>do <00:25:13.540>this. <00:25:13.880>I <00:25:13.920>can <00:25:14.040>achieve <00:25:14.380>this. <00:25:15.600>What <00:25:16.080>would <00:25:16.480>you <00:25:16.760>be <00:25:17.180>recommending <00:25:17.660>that <00:25:17.880>people <00:25:18.140>take <00:25:18.380>a <00:25:18.520>look <00:25:18.680>at? <00:25:18.860>Let's <00:25:19.180>just <00:25:19.300>say <00:25:19.440>that <00:25:19.580>they <00:25:19.680>haven't <00:25:20.280>looked <00:25:20.500>at <00:25:20.660>their <00:25:20.800>site <00:25:20.920>at <00:25:21.420>all, <00:25:21.800>from <00:25:21.860>an <00:25:22.020>accessibility <00:25:22.500>point <00:25:22.940>of <00:25:23.060>view. <00:25:23.260>What <00:25:23.360>have <00:25:23.480>you <00:25:23.580>done? 59 00:25:24.680 --> 00:26:04.050 Yeah, <00:25:25.400>I <00:25:25.500>think <00:25:25.780>if <00:25:26.140>it's <00:25:26.300>somebody <00:25:26.520>that's <00:25:26.780>on <00:25:26.920>their <00:25:27.040>own <00:25:27.280>without <00:25:27.580>any <00:25:27.940>sort <00:25:28.120>of <00:25:28.200>previous <00:25:28.520>knowledge, <00:25:29.040>I <00:25:29.380>find <00:25:29.760>I <00:25:30.400>went <00:25:31.220>about <00:25:31.480>putting <00:25:31.840>together <00:25:32.180>a <00:25:32.700>course <00:25:33.060>because <00:25:33.380>I <00:25:33.600>found <00:25:34.020>it <00:25:34.220>very <00:25:34.720>hard <00:25:35.920>to <00:25:36.160>get <00:25:36.420>a <00:25:36.640>hand. <00:25:36.740>I <00:25:36.880>was <00:25:37.000>sitting <00:25:37.180>there <00:25:37.340>kind <00:25:37.540>of <00:25:37.660>looking <00:25:37.920>through <00:25:38.140>things <00:25:38.520>and <00:25:38.840>it, <00:25:39.220>even <00:25:39.540>for <00:25:39.760>me <00:25:40.040>to <00:25:40.320>know, <00:25:40.680>like... <00:25:41.470>Is <00:25:41.950>this <00:25:42.090>something <00:25:42.350>I <00:25:42.530>already <00:25:42.810>know? <00:25:43.190>Is <00:25:43.290>this <00:25:43.410>a <00:25:43.530>new <00:25:43.710>thing? <00:25:44.130>It's <00:25:44.310>all <00:25:44.450>very <00:25:44.710>sort <00:25:44.930>of <00:25:45.070>scattershot <00:25:45.770>where <00:25:46.610>everybody's <00:25:47.570>sort <00:25:47.690>of <00:25:47.770>telling <00:25:47.970>you <00:25:48.090>a <00:25:48.230>lot <00:25:48.330>of <00:25:48.450>random <00:25:48.850>easy <00:25:49.510>things <00:25:49.790>you <00:25:49.930>can <00:25:50.050>do <00:25:50.270>and <00:25:50.470>you <00:25:50.570>don't <00:25:50.710>know <00:25:50.990>what <00:25:51.650>to <00:25:51.830>start <00:25:52.050>with. <00:25:52.350>And <00:25:52.370>so <00:25:52.690>it's <00:25:52.890>a <00:25:53.010>little <00:25:53.130>overwhelming. <00:25:53.770>There's <00:25:53.890>like <00:25:54.010>so <00:25:54.170>much <00:25:54.370>information <00:25:54.770>out <00:25:54.950>there, <00:25:55.170>but <00:25:55.230>it's <00:25:55.410>still <00:25:55.530>very <00:25:55.730>overwhelming <00:25:56.230>and <00:25:56.510>people <00:25:56.750>can <00:25:56.930>ask <00:25:57.130>their <00:25:57.290>AI <00:25:57.570>to <00:25:57.770>do <00:25:57.910>certain <00:25:58.150>things. <00:25:58.650>But, <00:25:58.790>you <00:25:59.330>know, <00:25:59.530>AI <00:25:59.750>has <00:25:59.930>been <00:26:00.070>trained <00:26:00.410>on <00:26:00.850>the <00:26:00.970>websites <00:26:01.290>that <00:26:01.470>exist <00:26:01.770>and <00:26:02.210>not <00:26:02.950>many <00:26:03.170>of <00:26:03.330>them <00:26:03.510>are <00:26:03.690>accessible. 60 00:26:04.050 --> 00:26:45.030 And <00:26:04.310>so <00:26:04.530>like <00:26:05.250>I've <00:26:05.870>had <00:26:06.050>it <00:26:06.250>like <00:26:06.550>give <00:26:06.810>me <00:26:07.190>something <00:26:08.510>that <00:26:08.970>I <00:26:09.170>think <00:26:09.310>I <00:26:09.430>was <00:26:09.590>trying <00:26:09.790>to <00:26:09.990>make, <00:26:10.610>I <00:26:10.990>don't <00:26:11.110>even <00:26:11.230>remember, <00:26:11.910>something. <00:26:12.410>And <00:26:12.690>it <00:26:12.790>was <00:26:12.910>like <00:26:13.030>adding <00:26:13.310>an <00:26:13.470>ARIA <00:26:13.670>to

<00:26:13.890>it. <00:26:14.090>And I'm <00:26:14.210>like, <00:26:14.410>yeah, <00:26:14.610>normally <00:26:14.850>that <00:26:15.090>would <00:26:15.250>be <00:26:15.550>the <00:26:15.690>case. <00:26:15.950>But <00:26:16.210>you're <00:26:16.410>having <00:26:16.670>me <00:26:16.850>add <00:26:17.090>this <00:26:17.310>like <00:26:17.510>a <00:26:17.650>hundred <00:26:17.890>times <00:26:18.270>and <00:26:18.450>it's <00:26:18.570>gonna <00:26:18.650>like <00:26:18.770>read <00:26:19.010>it <00:26:19.150>out <00:26:19.310>weird. <00:26:19.670>And <00:26:20.070>in <00:26:20.490>this <00:26:20.710>instance, <00:26:21.190>ARIA <00:26:21.370>shouldn't <00:26:21.690>be <00:26:21.810>used. <00:26:22.190>And <00:26:22.370>so <00:26:22.570>sometimes <00:26:22.970>it <00:26:23.150>should. <00:26:23.650>And <00:26:23.770>so, <00:26:24.230>you <00:26:24.290>know, <00:26:24.770>AI <00:26:24.970>can <00:26:25.290>maybe <00:26:25.690>help <00:26:25.970>you <00:26:26.270>figure <00:26:27.670>out <00:26:27.930>the <00:26:28.090>basics. <00:26:28.430>But <00:26:28.830>when <00:26:29.090>I <00:26:29.990>find <00:26:30.350>doing <00:26:31.110>is <00:26:31.830>easier <00:26:32.230>because <00:26:32.890>it <00:26:33.570>integrates <00:26:35.550>it. <00:26:36.050>It <00:26:36.110>integrates <00:26:36.550>the <00:26:36.670>idea. <00:26:37.090>So, <00:26:37.710>yeah, <00:26:37.950>reading <00:26:38.190>and <00:26:38.350>learning <00:26:38.590>is <00:26:38.810>good. <00:26:39.170>But <00:26:39.270>I <00:26:39.430>think, <00:26:39.890>yeah, <00:26:40.090>just <00:26:40.190>taking <00:26:40.430>a <00:26:40.610>look <00:26:40.750>at <00:26:40.850>your <00:26:40.970>site, <00:26:41.530>start <00:26:41.750>with <00:26:41.930>a <00:26:42.070>new <00:26:42.270>thing <00:26:42.550>that <00:26:42.710>you're <00:26:42.850>adding. <00:26:43.410>You <00:26:43.510>know, <00:26:43.690>you <00:26:43.810>don't <00:26:43.950>have <00:26:44.070>to <00:26:44.170>like <00:26:44.330>go <00:26:44.510>back <00:26:44.810>and. 61 00:26:46.315 --> 00:27:14.635 Oh, <00:26:46.695>that's <00:26:47.015>a <00:26:47.115>good <00:26:47.255>idea. <00:26:47.735>If <00:26:47.755>you're adding <00:26:47.975>a <00:26:49.475>blog <00:26:49.695>post, <00:26:50.155>you're <00:26:50.215>like, <00:26:50.475>okay, <00:26:50.775>what <00:26:50.935>about <00:26:51.135>what <00:26:51.335>I'm <00:26:51.535>doing? <00:26:51.955>Can <00:26:52.335>I <00:26:52.475>do <00:26:52.615>better? <00:26:53.115>And so <00:26:53.275>you're <00:26:53.455>like, <00:26:54.215>oh, <00:26:54.595>well, <00:26:54.855>heading <00:26:54.995>levels, <00:26:55.675>okay, <00:26:56.075>so <00:26:56.315>I'm <00:26:56.775>adding, <00:26:57.215>you <00:26:57.275>know, <00:26:57.875>don't <00:26:58.295>add <00:26:58.595>two <00:26:58.795>H1s, <00:26:59.415>add <00:26:59.595>one <00:26:59.755>H1. <00:27:00.155>Okay, <00:27:00.355>cool. <00:27:00.735>And <00:27:00.875>then <00:27:01.015>you're <00:27:01.195>like, <00:27:01.855>well, <00:27:02.155>so <00:27:02.335>what <00:27:02.555>heading <00:27:02.795>should <00:27:02.955>come <00:27:03.135>next? <00:27:03.355>And <00:27:03.415>so <00:27:03.515>you're <00:27:03.695>sort <00:27:03.795>of <00:27:03.895>learning <00:27:04.155>about <00:27:04.415>this <00:27:04.615>thing <00:27:04.855>that <00:27:05.035>you're <00:27:05.195>doing <00:27:05.555>anyway. <00:27:06.855>Oh, <00:27:07.255>I'm <00:27:07.355>adding <00:27:07.555>an <00:27:07.735>image. <00:27:08.135>Okay, <00:27:08.395>well, <00:27:09.355>alt <00:27:09.535>text <00:27:09.835>is <00:27:09.975>fine. <00:27:10.235>I've <00:27:10.615>never <00:27:10.795>really <00:27:11.175>thought <00:27:11.755>about <00:27:12.115>what <00:27:12.715>that <00:27:13.655>means, <00:27:14.135>necessarily. 62 00:27:14.635 --> 00:27:43.475 I <00:27:14.895>just <00:27:15.055>kind <00:27:15.195>of <00:27:15.335>describe <00:27:15.695>an <00:27:15.915>image. <00:27:16.315>And <00:27:16.375>so <00:27:16.535>you <00:27:16.755>maybe <00:27:16.995>do <00:27:17.215>a <00:27:17.375>little <00:27:17.475>bit <00:27:17.615>of <00:27:17.715>research <00:27:18.015>on <00:27:18.335>that. <00:27:19.415>And <00:27:19.735>there's <00:27:20.115>a <00:27:20.335>lot <00:27:20.475>of <00:27:20.595>great <00:27:20.775>people <00:27:21.095>who <00:27:21.255>do <00:27:21.415>a <00:27:21.575>lot <00:27:21.675>of <00:27:21.775>great <00:27:21.955>work <00:27:22.215>on <00:27:22.475>these <00:27:22.655>sort <00:27:22.795>of <00:27:22.895>really <00:27:23.095>granular <00:27:23.495>aspects. <00:27:24.235>So <00:27:24.555>it's <00:27:24.695>like, <00:27:24.855>okay, <00:27:25.095>is <00:27:25.235>it <00:27:25.355>decorative <00:27:25.715>or <00:27:25.915>is <00:27:26.075>it <00:27:26.175>not? <00:27:27.735>What's <00:27:28.055>the <00:27:28.155>context <00:27:28.535>of <00:27:28.795>this? <00:27:29.075>How <00:27:29.195>can <00:27:29.355>I <00:27:29.455>describe <00:27:29.775>this? <00:27:30.115>It's <00:27:30.255>a <00:27:30.355>chart. <00:27:30.875>Should <00:27:30.995>I <00:27:31.095>do <00:27:31.215>this? <00:27:31.455>So <00:27:31.535>it's <00:27:31.695>like <00:27:31.815>you're <00:27:32.135>sort <00:27:32.235>of <00:27:32.335>learning <00:27:32.655>these <00:27:32.955>little <00:27:33.135>individual <00:27:33.655>things <00:27:34.155>as <00:27:34.575>you <00:27:34.715>do <00:27:34.875>them. <00:27:35.475>And <00:27:35.795>then <00:27:35.955>if <00:27:36.115>you <00:27:36.215>get <00:27:36.735>a <00:27:36.895>little <00:27:37.055>bit <00:27:37.195>of <00:27:37.355>experience <00:27:37.775>with <00:27:38.195>how <00:27:38.475>that <00:27:38.695>process <00:27:39.215>works, <00:27:39.835>you <00:27:40.135>can <00:27:40.275>then <00:27:40.395>apply <00:27:40.735>that <00:27:41.075>to <00:27:41.415>the <00:27:42.215>other <00:27:42.535>aspects <00:27:42.955>of <00:27:43.115>the <00:27:43.215>site. 63 00:27:43.655 --> 00:28:13.295 So. <00:27:44.235>You're <00:27:44.715>not <00:27:44.815>maybe <00:27:45.075>making

<00:27:45.355>the <00:27:45.495>most <00:27:45.695>impact <00:27:46.275>with <00:27:46.835>like <00:27:47.015>a <00:27:47.115>single <00:27:47.395>blog <00:27:47.675>post, <00:27:48.175>but <00:27:48.275>it <00:27:48.435>does <00:27:48.655>help <00:27:48.895>you <00:27:49.055>get <00:27:49.355>used <00:27:50.035>to <00:27:50.275>that <00:27:50.695>behavior <00:27:51.795>of <00:27:52.335>like <00:27:52.635>adding <00:27:53.475>that <00:27:53.735>to <00:27:53.875>your <00:27:53.975>thought <00:27:54.175>process <00:27:54.675>and <00:27:55.015>then <00:27:55.195>you <00:27:55.355>can <00:27:55.515>sort <00:27:55.835>of <00:27:55.955>go <00:27:56.115>back <00:27:56.375>to <00:27:56.555>like <00:27:56.755>your <00:27:56.935>most <00:27:57.215>used <00:27:57.675>pages <00:27:58.195>like <00:27:58.475>what's <00:27:58.895>the <00:27:59.035>number <00:27:59.235>one <00:27:59.435>page <00:27:59.635>people <00:27:59.875>go <00:28:00.035>to <00:28:00.155>is <00:28:00.275>it <00:28:00.355>the <00:28:00.435>homepage <00:28:00.755>is <00:28:01.435>it <00:28:01.535>this <00:28:01.675>particular <00:28:01.995>service <00:28:02.415>page <00:28:02.775>it's <00:28:03.415>like <00:28:03.575>what's <00:28:03.995>your <00:28:04.095>main <00:28:04.375>page <00:28:04.695>and <00:28:04.935>then <00:28:05.035>you <00:28:05.155>go <00:28:05.295>visit <00:28:05.575>that <00:28:05.815>page <00:28:06.115>and <00:28:06.315>see <00:28:06.475>how <00:28:06.615>you <00:28:06.755>can <00:28:06.915>improve <00:28:07.215>it <00:28:07.435>and <00:28:07.695>so <00:28:08.195>it's <00:28:08.415>you <00:28:08.755>kind <00:28:08.955>of <00:28:09.075>need <00:28:09.235>that <00:28:09.395>base <00:28:09.715>level <00:28:10.015>of <00:28:10.195>knowledge <00:28:10.515>in <00:28:10.855>order <00:28:11.015>to <00:28:11.155>be <00:28:11.255>able <00:28:11.375>to <00:28:11.495>look <00:28:11.675>at <00:28:11.795>something <00:28:12.075>and <00:28:12.395>know <00:28:12.515>how <00:28:12.615>to <00:28:12.715>fix <00:28:13.055>it. 64 00:28:14.555 --> 00:28:52.200 If I'm auditing a site, that's a different process because I know what I'm doing and I can point somebody to it's usually like I'll do it and then categorize it into like high priority high impact you know areas that's going to be the most important anything that you can do globally headers footers you know. So anything that is on multiple pages, if you have like a sort of like a little widget area that's like a pre-footer that's on all the pages, do that. Like, and then you sort of drill down into like, it's like there's a third vector there. It's like high priority, high impact, easy, right? 65 00:28:52.200 --> 00:29:02.920 So <00:28:52.500>you <00:28:52.580>want <00:28:52.720>to <00:28:52.780>get <00:28:52.980>all <00:28:53.260>those <00:28:53.580>out <00:28:53.760>of <00:28:53.800>the <00:28:53.860>way <00:28:54.000>first. <00:28:54.400>And <00:28:54.640>then <00:28:54.980>if <00:28:55.840>you <00:28:55.980>can, <00:28:56.780>do <00:28:57.100>the <00:28:57.220>hard <00:28:57.440>stuff. <00:28:57.860>Like <00:28:57.920>sometimes <00:28:58.180>you <00:28:58.400>need <00:28:58.620>someone <00:28:59.060>else <00:28:59.260>to <00:28:59.380>come <00:28:59.540>in <00:28:59.660>and <00:28:59.760>do <00:28:59.860>the <00:28:59.960>hard <00:29:00.120>stuff. <00:29:00.480>So <00:29:00.540>maybe <00:29:00.760>you <00:29:00.900>take <00:29:01.080>care <00:29:01.240>of <00:29:01.340>all <00:29:01.440>the <00:29:01.540>easy <00:29:01.800>stuff <00:29:02.020>that <00:29:02.160>you <00:29:02.280>know <00:29:02.360>you <00:29:02.460>can <00:29:02.560>take <00:29:02.700>care <00:29:02.840>of. 66 00:29:02.920 --> 00:29:07.620 There's <00:29:03.280>a <00:29:03.340>lot <00:29:03.440>of <00:29:03.520>ways <00:29:03.660>to <00:29:03.800>approach <00:29:04.100>it <00:29:04.300>and <00:29:04.580>it <00:29:04.700>just <00:29:04.900>sort <00:29:05.180>of <00:29:05.320>fit <00:29:05.620>it <00:29:05.720>into <00:29:05.920>whatever <00:29:06.200>your <00:29:06.440>process <00:29:06.840>is. <00:29:07.400>Yeah. 67 00:29:08.220 --> 00:29:25.000 But <00:29:08.620>yeah, <00:29:08.820>when <00:29:08.920>I'm <00:29:09.060>doing <00:29:09.580>an <00:29:09.840>audit <00:29:10.060>and <00:29:10.240>it's <00:29:10.420>like <00:29:10.640>priority <00:29:11.660>for <00:29:12.760>that <00:29:12.960>particular <00:29:13.340>site, <00:29:13.780>right? <00:29:13.920>You're <00:29:14.020>not, <00:29:14.380>I'm <00:29:14.720>not <00:29:14.800>talking <00:29:14.960>about <00:29:15.160>like, <00:29:15.580>in <00:29:16.020>all <00:29:16.220>of <00:29:16.320>accessibility, <00:29:16.740>this <00:29:17.100>is <00:29:17.220>the <00:29:17.300>highest <00:29:17.560>priority. <00:29:18.120>It's <00:29:18.240>more <00:29:18.380>like <00:29:18.620>your <00:29:18.900>site <00:29:19.260>and <00:29:19.660>based <00:29:20.020>on <00:29:20.280>all <00:29:20.680>of <00:29:20.800>the <00:29:20.920>items <00:29:21.200>that <00:29:21.400>I <00:29:21.480>have <00:29:21.680>here, <00:29:22.220>start <00:29:22.360>with <00:29:22.520>this <00:29:22.720>one <00:29:22.980>or <00:29:23.260>start <00:29:23.540>with <00:29:23.720>these <00:29:24.080>or, <00:29:24.880>yeah. 68 00:29:25.260 --> 00:29:54.105 I <00:29:25.540>like <00:29:25.920>the <00:29:26.080>idea <00:29:26.380>of <00:29:26.600>doing <00:29:26.840>the <00:29:27.080>thing, <00:29:27.540>just <00:29:27.660>carry <00:29:27.960>on <00:29:28.160>doing <00:29:28.360>the <00:29:28.580>thing <00:29:28.720>that <00:29:28.880>you're <00:29:29.040>doing, <00:29:29.700>only <00:29:29.940>do <00:29:30.220>that <00:29:30.600>thing <00:29:31.020>better. <00:29:32.505>And <00:29:32.885>then <00:29:33.205>make <00:29:33.745>that <00:29:33.925>part <00:29:34.145>of <00:29:34.285>the <00:29:34.585>muscle <00:29:35.065>memory, <00:29:35.485>and <00:29:35.985>then <00:29:36.185>maybe <00:29:36.525>tackle <00:29:36.965>another <00:29:37.245>thing <00:29:37.465>better. <00:29:38.185>And <00:29:38.505>then

<00:29:38.625>once <00:29:38.865>you've <00:29:39.045>got, <00:29:39.365>I <00:29:39.425>don't <00:29:39.525>know, <00:29:39.765>five <00:29:39.945>or <00:29:40.065>six <00:29:40.305>different <00:29:40.645>approaches, <00:29:41.645>you <00:29:41.665>know, <00:29:41.825>new, <00:29:42.425>improved <00:29:42.805>approaches, <00:29:43.545>then <00:29:43.745>maybe <00:29:44.165>start <00:29:44.445>scanning <00:29:44.785>around <00:29:45.225>for <00:29:46.025>the <00:29:46.365>things <00:29:46.965>to <00:29:47.165>do. <00:29:47.525>And <00:29:47.625>obviously, <00:29:48.085>as <00:29:48.225>you <00:29:48.325>said, <00:29:48.765>if <00:29:48.885>you're <00:29:49.145>an <00:29:49.765>accessibility <00:29:50.225>expert <00:29:50.765>and <00:29:51.025>you're <00:29:51.285>doing <00:29:51.625>coaching, <00:29:52.305>all <00:29:52.345>of <00:29:52.425>that <00:29:52.565>kind <00:29:52.725>of <00:29:52.805>thing, <00:29:53.045>well, <00:29:53.165>that's <00:29:53.565>different. 69 00:29:54.105 --> 00:30:20.965 Your <00:29:54.425>job <00:29:54.685>is <00:29:54.825>to <00:29:54.945>go <00:29:55.105>and <00:29:55.225>find <00:29:55.525>literally <00:29:56.225>everything, <00:29:56.745>I <00:29:56.965>imagine, <00:29:57.485>within <00:29:57.665>reason, <00:29:58.165>and <00:29:58.885>then <00:29:59.165>categorize <00:29:59.805>those <00:30:00.045>for <00:30:00.665>them <00:30:01.105>so <00:30:02.305>that <00:30:02.465>they <00:30:02.625>can <00:30:02.805>take <00:30:03.125>chunks <00:30:03.365>out <00:30:03.625>of <00:30:03.745>it. <00:30:04.325>Yeah, <00:30:04.985>it <00:30:05.105>depends <00:30:05.825>too. <00:30:06.585>So <00:30:06.665>what <00:30:06.885>I <00:30:07.185>was <00:30:07.325>talking <00:30:07.545>about <00:30:07.865>is <00:30:08.145>helpful <00:30:08.425>for <00:30:08.685>anybody, <00:30:09.045>but <00:30:09.445>mostly <00:30:09.945>for <00:30:10.165>people <00:30:10.385>who <00:30:10.545>just <00:30:10.745>sort <00:30:10.865>of <00:30:10.965>have <00:30:11.165>their <00:30:11.305>own <00:30:11.545>site. <00:30:12.065>If <00:30:12.365>you're <00:30:12.465>like <00:30:12.605>an <00:30:12.725>agency, <00:30:13.445>a <00:30:13.545>lot <00:30:13.725>of <00:30:13.885>it <00:30:14.085>is, <00:30:14.645>if <00:30:16.825>you <00:30:16.945>can <00:30:17.125>audit <00:30:17.405>your <00:30:17.605>templates, <00:30:18.005>that's <00:30:18.985>usually <00:30:19.245>where <00:30:19.545>I <00:30:19.765>start <00:30:20.205>with <00:30:20.605>people. 70 00:30:20.965 --> 00:30:22.205 So <00:30:21.285>like... 71 00:30:23.770 --> 00:30:49.410 So <00:30:24.010>there's <00:30:24.370>people <00:30:25.290>out <00:30:25.530>there <00:30:25.690>who <00:30:25.850>have <00:30:25.990>created <00:30:26.450>ways <00:30:27.630>to <00:30:27.870>talk <00:30:28.050>to <00:30:28.170>your <00:30:28.270>clients <00:30:28.690>that <00:30:29.190>you've <00:30:29.470>already <00:30:29.630>launched <00:30:29.890>their <00:30:30.050>sites, <00:30:30.490>right? <00:30:30.710>So <00:30:30.830>that's <00:30:31.150>a <00:30:31.590>topic <00:30:32.110>that <00:30:32.310>you <00:30:32.410>have <00:30:32.570>to <00:30:32.690>feel <00:30:32.890>confident <00:30:33.310>enough <00:30:33.610>to <00:30:33.730>be <00:30:33.850>like, <00:30:34.090>hey, <00:30:34.390>I've <00:30:34.650>learned <00:30:34.830>about <00:30:35.030>this <00:30:35.230>new <00:30:35.350>thing <00:30:35.550>and <00:30:35.670>how <00:30:35.810>important <00:30:36.110>it <00:30:36.270>is, <00:30:36.630>and <00:30:36.690>so <00:30:36.930>I <00:30:37.230>would <00:30:37.370>like <00:30:37.570>us <00:30:37.790>to <00:30:38.050>bring <00:30:38.430>your <00:30:38.670>previously <00:30:39.210>launched <00:30:39.590>sites <00:30:40.050>up <00:30:40.890>to <00:30:41.230>the <00:30:41.370>new <00:30:41.510>standards. <00:30:42.250>And <00:30:42.650>however <00:30:42.870>you <00:30:43.030>want <00:30:43.130>to <00:30:43.190>approach <00:30:43.410>that <00:30:43.530>with <00:30:43.670>your <00:30:43.790>past <00:30:44.050>clients. <00:30:44.490>But <00:30:44.630>the <00:30:44.850>easiest <00:30:45.230>way <00:30:45.490>is <00:30:45.750>obviously <00:30:46.090>sites <00:30:46.430>you <00:30:46.570>haven't <00:30:46.910>launched <00:30:47.470>yet. <00:30:47.850>You <00:30:47.990>could <00:30:48.110>just <00:30:48.250>sort <00:30:48.370>of <00:30:48.490>do <00:30:48.650>it <00:30:48.810>going <00:30:49.030>forward. 72 00:30:49.410 --> 00:31:10.090 And <00:30:49.970>so <00:30:50.270>start <00:30:50.930>with <00:30:51.110>that <00:30:51.290>template <00:30:51.590>that <00:30:51.810>you <00:30:52.010>use <00:30:52.510>with <00:30:52.770>every <00:30:53.010>single <00:30:53.410>site, <00:30:53.990>all <00:30:54.790>those <00:30:55.030>components <00:30:55.470>that <00:30:55.810>you <00:30:55.950>have, <00:30:56.350>all <00:30:56.450>those <00:30:56.650>different <00:30:56.890>things. <00:30:57.230>You <00:30:57.430>can't <00:30:57.630>account <00:30:57.790>for <00:30:58.010>everything. <00:30:58.510>You <00:30:58.690>might <00:30:58.830>need <00:30:58.950>to <00:30:59.070>change <00:30:59.270>your <00:30:59.370>heading <00:30:59.510>level, <00:30:59.930>but <00:31:00.010>making <00:31:00.850>sure <00:31:01.110>that <00:31:01.530>the <00:31:02.270>tab <00:31:03.390>order <00:31:03.650>is <00:31:03.910>right, <00:31:04.210>or <00:31:04.430>making <00:31:04.650>sure <00:31:04.930>that <00:31:05.170>your <00:31:05.810>starter <00:31:06.270>has <00:31:06.610>enough <00:31:06.850>contrast, <00:31:07.350>or <00:31:07.530>just <00:31:07.670>sort <00:31:07.810>of <00:31:07.950>having <00:31:08.330>those <00:31:08.630>standards <00:31:09.010>built <00:31:09.290>into <00:31:09.510>the <00:31:09.730>template. 73 00:31:11.470 --> 00:31:23.470 And <00:31:11.890>then <00:31:12.010>you <00:31:12.130>can <00:31:12.330>take <00:31:13.130>it <00:31:13.270>from <00:31:13.370>then <00:31:13.510>you <00:31:13.630>already <00:31:13.830>have <00:31:14.070>that <00:31:14.230>foundation

<00:31:14.650>built. <00:31:15.110>So <00:31:15.230>that's <00:31:15.450>usually <00:31:15.610>where <00:31:15.770>I <00:31:15.850>try <00:31:16.010>to <00:31:16.150>get <00:31:16.390>people <00:31:16.670>to <00:31:16.990>start. <00:31:18.050>Or <00:31:18.490>a <00:31:19.170>lot <00:31:19.290>of <00:31:19.370>times <00:31:19.570>I'll <00:31:19.750>audit <00:31:19.990>somebody's <00:31:20.410>recently <00:31:20.730>launched <00:31:21.070>site <00:31:21.430>to <00:31:21.690>start <00:31:21.950>so <00:31:22.190>that <00:31:22.310>we <00:31:22.430>can <00:31:22.590>get <00:31:22.730>a <00:31:22.850>good <00:31:22.990>baseline. 74 00:31:23.810 --> 00:32:06.630 And <00:31:24.250>then <00:31:24.470>like, <00:31:24.930>yeah, <00:31:25.490>anytime <00:31:25.930>we <00:31:26.150>can <00:31:26.290>get <00:31:26.430>to <00:31:26.550>those <00:31:26.770>templates, <00:31:27.450>that's <00:31:28.230>or, <00:31:28.790>again, <00:31:29.930>you <00:31:30.070>know, <00:31:30.230>a <00:31:30.290>lot <00:31:30.370>of <00:31:30.510>accessibility <00:31:30.950>people <00:31:31.330>will <00:31:31.590>say <00:31:31.890>it's <00:31:32.390>start <00:31:32.830>as <00:31:33.250>early <00:31:33.450>as <00:31:33.590>possible <00:31:33.990>to <00:31:34.190>if <00:31:34.410>you <00:31:34.510>can <00:31:34.630>bring <00:31:34.810>me <00:31:34.950>in <00:31:35.110>for <00:31:35.290>a <00:31:35.470>30 <00:31:35.750>minute <00:31:36.110>call <00:31:36.890>that <00:31:37.450>we <00:31:37.570>talk <00:31:37.830>about <00:31:38.010>your <00:31:38.150>design, <00:31:38.750>and <00:31:39.150>I <00:31:39.290>can <00:31:39.470>give <00:31:39.710>you, <00:31:40.270>oh, <00:31:40.950>hey, <00:31:41.290>this <00:31:41.590>is <00:31:41.730>going <00:31:41.830>to <00:31:41.890>be <00:31:41.990>an <00:31:42.130>accordion, <00:31:42.910>there's <00:31:43.150>a, <00:31:43.390>you <00:31:43.630>know, <00:31:44.010>a <00:31:44.390>block <00:31:44.650>editor <00:31:45.010>now <00:31:45.790>widget <00:31:46.270>or <00:31:46.710>block <00:31:47.250>that <00:31:47.650>it's <00:31:48.690>an <00:31:48.770>accordion <00:31:49.130>built <00:31:49.350>in, <00:31:49.590>it's <00:31:49.650>got <00:31:49.750>the <00:31:49.890>accessibility <00:31:50.230>in <00:31:50.450>there. <00:31:50.690>Oh, <00:31:51.130>this <00:31:51.390>is <00:31:51.530>going <00:31:51.670>to <00:31:51.750>be, <00:31:52.270>you're <00:31:53.250>going <00:31:53.310>to <00:31:53.370>want <00:31:53.470>to <00:31:53.570>bump <00:31:53.770>up <00:31:53.930>the <00:31:54.190>contrast <00:31:54.690>on <00:31:55.090>this, <00:31:55.510>you <00:31:55.610>know, <00:31:55.850>background <00:31:56.150>overlay <00:31:56.590>color. <00:31:57.210>Oh, <00:31:57.590>you <00:31:57.630>know, <00:31:58.070>make <00:31:58.250>sure <00:31:58.430>that <00:31:58.610>this <00:31:58.910>font <00:31:59.310>size <00:31:59.730>is <00:32:00.070>this <00:32:00.990>because <00:32:01.370>of <00:32:01.650>this, <00:32:02.310>like, <00:32:02.550>it's <00:32:02.730>just <00:32:02.830>I <00:32:03.070>can <00:32:03.370>call <00:32:03.630>out <00:32:03.810>things <00:32:04.090>in <00:32:04.250>a <00:32:04.350>design <00:32:04.730>that <00:32:05.270>you <00:32:05.370>can <00:32:05.510>hand <00:32:05.750>off <00:32:05.970>to <00:32:06.090>your <00:32:06.190>developers. 75 00:32:06.910 --> 00:32:08.070 And <00:32:07.350>then <00:32:07.490>they, <00:32:07.850>you <00:32:07.950>know, 76 00:32:08.560 --> 00:32:36.440 Yeah. <00:32:09.340>Can <00:32:09.400>take <00:32:09.620>it <00:32:09.720>from <00:32:09.880>there, <00:32:10.160>hopefully. <00:32:10.700>So, <00:32:11.400>with <00:32:12.420>all <00:32:12.840>of <00:32:13.000>this, <00:32:13.760>it <00:32:14.320>feels <00:32:15.140>like <00:32:15.620>you've <00:32:16.020>obviously <00:32:16.340>implemented <00:32:16.920>this <00:32:17.320>in <00:32:17.540>the <00:32:17.640>past <00:32:17.960>in <00:32:18.140>your <00:32:18.320>business. <00:32:18.980>Are <00:32:19.100>there <00:32:19.280>any <00:32:19.700>bits <00:32:20.120>where <00:32:20.540>you <00:32:21.200>think, <00:32:21.720>well, <00:32:21.980>let's <00:32:22.500>talk <00:32:22.720>about <00:32:22.900>it <00:32:23.000>in <00:32:23.100>the <00:32:23.180>WordPress <00:32:23.520>context. <00:32:24.220>So, <00:32:24.920>let's <00:32:26.200>just <00:32:26.680>go <00:32:26.820>for <00:32:26.960>this. <00:32:27.220>It's <00:32:27.240>a <00:32:27.360>pretty <00:32:27.480>blunt <00:32:27.820>question. <00:32:28.760>WordPress <00:32:29.200>is <00:32:29.460>no <00:32:29.620>one <00:32:29.940>thing. <00:32:30.240>So, <00:32:30.560>you <00:32:30.700>could <00:32:30.820>build <00:32:31.080>with <00:32:31.220>the <00:32:31.320>block <00:32:31.520>editor, <00:32:31.960>you <00:32:31.980>could <00:32:32.080>build <00:32:32.300>with <00:32:32.540>page <00:32:32.840>builder <00:32:33.060>over <00:32:33.280>here, <00:32:33.680>or <00:32:33.720>another <00:32:33.960>page <00:32:34.200>builder, <00:32:34.640>or, <00:32:34.840>you <00:32:34.980>know, <00:32:35.280>whatever. <00:32:35.840>There's <00:32:35.960>a <00:32:36.040>million <00:32:36.200>ways. 77 00:32:37.360 --> 00:33:04.780 Do <00:32:37.720>you <00:32:37.880>find, <00:32:38.300>on <00:32:38.320>the <00:32:38.420>whole, <00:32:38.780>though, <00:32:39.000>that <00:32:39.120>WordPress, <00:32:39.480>as <00:32:39.800>a <00:32:39.940>tool, <00:32:40.440>is <00:32:40.680>assistive <00:32:41.760>with <00:32:42.600>this? <00:32:43.380>Or <00:32:43.740>do <00:32:43.900>you <00:32:44.020>find <00:32:44.380>that, <00:32:44.700>you <00:32:44.840>know, <00:32:45.000>it's <00:32:45.140>a <00:32:45.220>bit <00:32:45.300>of <00:32:45.380>a <00:32:45.460>nightmare? <00:32:46.080>You've <00:32:46.380>got <00:32:46.460>to <00:32:46.520>go <00:32:46.620>through, <00:32:47.020>like, <00:32:47.220>okay, <00:32:47.520>where's <00:32:47.840>that? <00:32:48.220>Where <00:32:48.540>do <00:32:48.660>we <00:32:48.800>discover, <00:32:49.380>even, <00:32:49.860>where <00:32:50.000>the <00:32:50.200>ARIA

<00:32:50.600>label <00:32:51.000>is <00:32:51.120>going <00:32:51.280>to <00:32:51.340>be <00:32:51.440>kept? <00:32:52.480>I <00:32:52.840>know <00:32:53.020>you <00:32:53.180>won't <00:32:53.420>be <00:32:53.520>able <00:32:53.620>to <00:32:53.740>answer <00:32:54.000>that, <00:32:54.180>because <00:32:54.340>every <00:32:54.600>interface <00:32:55.060>is <00:32:55.260>going <00:32:55.380>to <00:32:55.460>be <00:32:55.560>slightly <00:32:55.840>different. <00:32:56.180>Maybe <00:32:56.520>if <00:32:56.680>we <00:32:56.780>just <00:32:56.960>take <00:32:57.180>it <00:32:57.280>as <00:32:57.380>core <00:32:57.880>WordPress. <00:32:58.620>So, <00:32:58.780>you're <00:32:59.020>using <00:32:59.160>the <00:32:59.280>block <00:32:59.480>editor, <00:33:00.500>just <00:33:00.820>a <00:33:01.040>vanilla <00:33:01.300>version <00:33:01.660>of <00:33:01.820>WordPress. <00:33:02.300>How <00:33:02.500>does <00:33:02.640>it <00:33:02.780>actually <00:33:03.380>do, <00:33:03.960>in <00:33:04.140>your <00:33:04.340>estimation? 78 00:33:04.780 --> 00:33:10.660 Is <00:33:05.160>it <00:33:05.280>a <00:33:05.800>benefit, <00:33:06.360>net <00:33:06.460>benefit, <00:33:06.980>or <00:33:07.080>is <00:33:07.320>there <00:33:07.440>a <00:33:07.540>lot <00:33:07.640>of <00:33:07.760>unpicking <00:33:08.300>and <00:33:08.560>additional <00:33:09.380>learning <00:33:09.820>that <00:33:10.040>you've <00:33:10.220>got <00:33:10.360>to <00:33:10.460>do? 79 00:33:14.230 --> 00:33:24.290 The <00:33:14.710>great <00:33:15.190>thing <00:33:15.370>about <00:33:15.610>WordPress <00:33:15.930>is <00:33:16.210>it <00:33:16.390>lets <00:33:16.670>you <00:33:16.770>access <00:33:17.130>everything <00:33:17.510>you <00:33:17.710>need. <00:33:18.070>So, <00:33:18.330>at <00:33:19.050>the <00:33:19.230>base <00:33:19.570>level, <00:33:20.010>it <00:33:20.950>is <00:33:21.250>the <00:33:21.410>easiest <00:33:21.750>platform <00:33:22.230>that <00:33:22.650>I've <00:33:22.950>found <00:33:23.210>to <00:33:23.470>make <00:33:23.710>accessible. 80 00:33:25.390 --> 00:33:59.450 Even <00:33:25.870>ones <00:33:26.250>that <00:33:26.390>give <00:33:26.550>you <00:33:26.630>access <00:33:26.870>to <00:33:27.090>the <00:33:27.210>code, <00:33:27.630>like <00:33:27.730>Webflow, <00:33:28.330>they <00:33:28.450>still <00:33:28.850>have <00:33:29.370>certain <00:33:29.770>things <00:33:30.270>that <00:33:30.630>are <00:33:30.890>just <00:33:31.090>a <00:33:31.250>lot <00:33:31.430>harder <00:33:31.770>to <00:33:31.970>do <00:33:32.290>because <00:33:32.790>you <00:33:32.990>just <00:33:33.210>don't <00:33:33.470>have <00:33:33.710>all <00:33:33.870>the <00:33:34.010>files. <00:33:34.290>You <00:33:34.530>don't <00:33:34.710>have <00:33:34.850>all <00:33:34.990>the <00:33:35.130>access. <00:33:35.710>Things <00:33:35.950>aren't <00:33:36.450>global <00:33:36.790>where <00:33:36.990>they <00:33:37.150>should <00:33:37.310>be. <00:33:37.630>You <00:33:37.910>only <00:33:38.070>have <00:33:38.230>this

<00:33:38.390>little <00:33:38.570>box <00:33:38.830>for <00:33:39.010>code. <00:33:39.330>WordPress, <00:33:40.150>I <00:33:40.170>think, <00:33:40.890>anytime <00:33:41.810>I'm <00:33:42.090>remediating <00:33:43.530>a <00:33:43.690>site, <00:33:44.110>it's <00:33:44.270>just <00:33:44.410>a <00:33:44.570>lot <00:33:44.850>easier <00:33:45.650>if <00:33:46.230>it's <00:33:46.430>in <00:33:46.550>WordPress <00:33:46.890>because <00:33:47.210>I <00:33:47.430>don't <00:33:47.610>have <00:33:47.810>to <00:33:47.950>care. <00:33:48.730>It's <00:33:49.410>going <00:33:49.530>to <00:33:49.630>be <00:33:49.770>easier <00:33:50.170>if <00:33:50.450>it's <00:33:50.690>using <00:33:51.350>core <00:33:51.770>WordPress <00:33:52.190>because <00:33:52.710>it <00:33:53.490>goes <00:33:53.890>through <00:33:54.270>this <00:33:55.330>specific <00:33:56.390>check <00:33:56.830>of <00:33:57.270>accessibility <00:33:57.810>before <00:33:58.270>things <00:33:58.690>are <00:33:58.950>launched. 81 00:33:59.450 --> 00:34:07.910 There's <00:33:59.730>an <00:33:59.810>accessibility <00:34:00.250>team. <00:34:01.050>Whereas, <00:34:01.570>you <00:34:01.890>know, <00:34:02.070>builders, <00:34:02.430>they <00:34:03.090>may <00:34:03.250>be <00:34:03.410>relying <00:34:03.750>on <00:34:03.970>their <00:34:04.190>developers <00:34:04.730>who <00:34:05.350>are <00:34:05.590>doing <00:34:05.870>all <00:34:06.250>of <00:34:06.390>the <00:34:06.510>features <00:34:06.870>to <00:34:07.210>then <00:34:07.490>also... 82 00:34:09.345 --> 00:34:44.085 There's <00:34:09.745>no <00:34:09.865>sort <00:34:10.045>of <00:34:10.165>maybe <00:34:10.325>official <00:34:10.765>policy <00:34:11.465>on <00:34:11.705>accessibility <00:34:12.125>or <00:34:12.545>they <00:34:13.025>just <00:34:13.205>say <00:34:13.385>we <00:34:13.545>care <00:34:13.825>about <00:34:14.145>it <00:34:14.365>and <00:34:14.545>there's <00:34:14.765>no <00:34:14.925>like <00:34:15.125>formal <00:34:15.525>sort <00:34:15.805>of <00:34:15.965>process <00:34:16.665>to <00:34:17.345>check <00:34:17.645>and <00:34:17.845>make <00:34:18.025>sure <00:34:18.285>that <00:34:18.685>that's <00:34:19.005>happening. <00:34:19.605>And <00:34:19.685>so, <00:34:20.145>you <00:34:20.205>know, <00:34:20.345>you <00:34:20.425>have <00:34:20.605>these <00:34:20.805>maybe <00:34:21.085>overworked <00:34:22.205>developers <00:34:22.545>that <00:34:22.725>are <00:34:22.825>also <00:34:23.065>trying <00:34:23.305>to <00:34:23.445>like <00:34:23.585>do <00:34:23.765>this <00:34:23.965>thing <00:34:24.145>that <00:34:24.325>they're <00:34:24.505>not <00:34:24.765>knowledgeable <00:34:25.425>on <00:34:25.865>and, <00:34:26.105>you <00:34:26.525>know, <00:34:26.845>don't <00:34:27.045>have <00:34:27.145>any <00:34:27.265>formal <00:34:27.565>training <00:34:27.925>because <00:34:28.285>they're <00:34:28.445>too <00:34:28.565>busy <00:34:28.805>keeping <00:34:29.045>up <00:34:29.265>with <00:34:29.385>all <00:34:29.505>the <00:34:29.605>bugs. <00:34:29.965>And <00:34:30.185>so <00:34:30.425>it's <00:34:30.665>I <00:34:31.545>think <00:34:31.765>core <00:34:32.065>WordPress, <00:34:32.785>because <00:34:33.445>of <00:34:33.885>the <00:34:34.105>way <00:34:34.265>that <00:34:34.405>it's <00:34:34.605>structured, <00:34:34.905>is <00:34:35.265>going <00:34:35.385>to <00:34:35.545>give <00:34:35.905>you <00:34:36.025>a <00:34:36.125>better <00:34:36.345>baseline. <00:34:37.745>And <00:34:38.225>there's <00:34:38.425>less <00:34:38.765>technical <00:34:39.905>debt <00:34:40.285>from <00:34:40.525>the <00:34:40.785>perspective <00:34:41.345>of, <00:34:42.125>you <00:34:42.545>know, <00:34:42.705>having <00:34:42.925>to <00:34:43.085>maybe <00:34:43.285>rebuild <00:34:43.605>from <00:34:43.805>scratch. 83 00:34:44.085 --> 00:35:06.385 You're <00:34:44.405>getting <00:34:44.565>a <00:34:44.725>lot <00:34:44.845>of <00:34:44.985>these <00:34:45.265>because <00:34:45.665>of <00:34:45.905>like <00:34:46.105>the <00:34:46.405>wherever <00:34:47.265>the <00:34:47.505>maturity <00:34:47.865>point <00:34:48.605>is <00:34:49.045>right <00:34:49.265>now, <00:34:49.745>you <00:34:49.845>having <00:34:50.125>these <00:34:50.425>these <00:34:50.705>builders <00:34:51.025>that <00:34:51.185>have <00:34:51.265>been <00:34:51.365>around <00:34:51.605>for <00:34:51.765>a <00:34:51.865>long <00:34:51.965>time. <00:34:52.225>And <00:34:52.465>so <00:34:52.705>there's <00:34:53.105>quite <00:34:53.265>a <00:34:53.405>few <00:34:53.545>of <00:34:53.685>them <00:34:53.845>that <00:34:54.005>are <00:34:54.125>doing <00:34:54.365>these <00:34:54.705>like <00:34:54.865>sort <00:34:55.045>of <00:34:55.225>full <00:34:55.745>rebuilds, <00:34:56.405>like <00:34:56.485>you <00:34:56.585>have <00:34:56.705>Divi, <00:34:57.285>what <00:34:57.405>is <00:34:57.505>it, <00:34:57.705>five, <00:34:58.105>and <00:34:58.225>you <00:34:58.345>have <00:34:58.505>Elementor's <00:34:59.245>rebuilding <00:34:59.705>in <00:34:59.945>their <00:35:00.065>version, <00:35:00.425>and <00:35:00.705>then <00:35:00.825>you <00:35:00.945>have <00:35:01.225>like <00:35:01.845>oxygen <00:35:02.685>relaunching. <00:35:03.245>And <00:35:03.525>so <00:35:03.665>you <00:35:03.765>have <00:35:03.905>a <00:35:04.005>lot <00:35:04.065>of <00:35:04.165>these <00:35:04.285>things <00:35:04.425>that <00:35:04.525>are <00:35:04.625>redoing <00:35:05.065>it. <00:35:06.065>And... 84 00:35:08.090 --> 00:35:59.270 Maybe <00:35:08.830>caring <00:35:09.610>about <00:35:09.850>accessibility, <00:35:10.630>some <00:35:10.790>more <00:35:11.230>than <00:35:11.390>others, <00:35:12.050>and <00:35:12.130>so <00:35:12.330>you <00:35:12.470>have <00:35:12.630>to <00:35:12.750>kind <00:35:12.950>of, <00:35:13.730>but <00:35:14.150>there <00:35:14.410>are <00:35:15.030>people, <00:35:15.830>like, <00:35:15.970>there's <00:35:16.210>somebody <00:35:16.450>that, <00:35:16.830>like, <00:35:17.510>just <00:35:17.690>sort <00:35:17.870>of <00:35:18.030>has <00:35:18.490>a

<00:35:18.630>bunch <00:35:18.810>of <00:35:18.990>fixes <00:35:19.310>for <00:35:19.570>Divi. <00:35:20.070>And <00:35:20.110>so, <00:35:20.370>like, <00:35:20.710>there <00:35:20.930>are <00:35:21.070>people <00:35:21.310>that, <00:35:21.650>because <00:35:21.950>there's <00:35:22.330>so <00:35:22.910>many <00:35:23.450>different <00:35:24.250>types <00:35:24.570>of <00:35:24.770>communities <00:35:25.210>and <00:35:25.450>stuff, <00:35:25.890>you <00:35:26.170>do <00:35:26.390>have <00:35:27.110>people <00:35:27.450>that <00:35:27.710>are <00:35:28.150>trying <00:35:29.490>to <00:35:29.730>make <00:35:30.010>these <00:35:30.270>individual <00:35:30.670>pockets <00:35:31.090>more <00:35:31.350>accessible <00:35:31.690>as <00:35:31.870>well. <00:35:32.110>And <00:35:32.390>so <00:35:32.530>I <00:35:32.650>just <00:35:32.830>think, <00:35:33.190>from <00:35:33.650>the <00:35:33.790>community <00:35:34.110>as <00:35:34.290>a <00:35:34.370>whole, <00:35:34.530>it's <00:35:34.670>a <00:35:34.750>lot <00:35:34.850>easier. <00:35:35.470>I <00:35:35.690>mean, <00:35:36.110>you <00:35:36.210>know, <00:35:36.350>you <00:35:36.410>have <00:35:36.730>the <00:35:37.350>sort <00:35:37.490>of <00:35:37.710>the <00:35:38.330>beacon <00:35:39.270>of, <00:35:39.730>you <00:35:39.910>know, <00:35:40.030>Equalize <00:35:40.450>Digital, <00:35:40.750>who <00:35:41.010>has <00:35:41.290>this <00:35:41.630>plugin <00:35:42.230>that <00:35:42.510>does <00:35:42.710>a <00:35:42.850>lot <00:35:42.950>of <00:35:43.070>great <00:35:43.270>things <00:35:43.710>in <00:35:44.250>terms <00:35:44.510>of, <00:35:44.790>like, <00:35:45.830>exposing <00:35:46.310>people <00:35:46.650>to <00:35:46.810>accessibility <00:35:47.290>in <00:35:48.070>the <00:35:48.350>way <00:35:48.590>that <00:35:48.830>it <00:35:49.010>should <00:35:49.310>be <00:35:49.470>approached, <00:35:49.870>rather <00:35:50.370>than <00:35:50.670>sort <00:35:50.910>of, <00:35:51.310>you <00:35:51.870>know, <00:35:52.270>overlaying <00:35:52.870>it <00:35:53.210>or <00:35:53.510>doing <00:35:53.830>whatever, <00:35:54.450>you <00:35:54.790>know, <00:35:55.010>there's <00:35:55.270>no <00:35:55.550>special <00:35:56.490>interest <00:35:56.930>in <00:35:57.350>that. <00:35:57.630>They <00:35:57.710>just <00:35:57.890>sort <00:35:58.030>of <00:35:58.110>want <00:35:58.390>sites <00:35:58.630>to <00:35:58.730>be <00:35:58.810>more <00:35:58.930>accessible. 85 00:35:59.270 --> 00:36:33.260 And so it's, like, introducing people to the concept and trying to guide them through fixing and testing things. And, you know, I, you know, it's just how it should be sort of approached. And then, you know, then you have to kind of do a hands-on thing afterwards. Not like... There are certain things that you just can't find without doing it manually. Because they have a free version, it's a really great way for people to get introduced to that concept that I'm talking about, where you're like, I'm going to fix some of these things that I know what a heading is, and so I can go dive into that one. It helps incrementally introduce this concept to people. 86 00:36:33.260 --> 00:37:02.060 Well, <00:36:33.680>it's <00:36:33.740>nice <00:36:33.960>to <00:36:34.120>know <00:36:34.280>that <00:36:34.460>WordPress <00:36:34.860>does <00:36:35.300>a <00:36:35.520>fairly <00:36:35.980>decent <00:36:36.340>job. <00:36:36.840>And <00:36:36.920>like <00:36:37.140>you <00:36:37.220>say, <00:36:37.500>there's <00:36:37.640>a <00:36:37.720>whole <00:36:37.880>team <00:36:38.160>of <00:36:38.320>people, <00:36:39.120>interviewed <00:36:39.680>many <00:36:39.920>of <00:36:40.080>them, <00:36:40.440>Joe <00:36:40.700>and <00:36:40.920>Amber <00:36:41.240>and <00:36:41.820>Rian <00:36:42.940>and <00:36:43.760>Mika <00:36:45.020>and <00:36:45.360>various <00:36:45.680>other <00:36:45.860>people <00:36:46.180>who <00:36:46.440>have <00:36:46.640>been <00:36:46.800>involved <00:36:47.140>in <00:36:47.360>all <00:36:47.540>of <00:36:47.640>that <00:36:47.780>side <00:36:48.000>of <00:36:48.120>things. <00:36:48.460>And <00:36:48.580>it <00:36:49.660>may <00:36:50.080>be <00:36:50.260>an <00:36:50.620>uphill <00:36:50.880>battle <00:36:51.180>for <00:36:51.420>them <00:36:51.580>to <00:36:51.860>get <00:36:52.160>the <00:36:52.300>accessibility <00:36:52.800>things <00:36:53.180>in, <00:36:53.360>but <00:36:53.420>they <00:36:53.580>are <00:36:53.720>there, <00:36:54.060>they <00:36:54.120>are <00:36:54.280>blowing <00:36:54.560>the <00:36:54.900>trumpet <00:36:55.360>and <00:36:55.760>sounding <00:36:56.260>the <00:36:56.480>alarm <00:36:56.820>when <00:36:57.120>things <00:36:57.540>don't <00:36:58.040>go <00:36:59.140>well. <00:36:59.860>And <00:37:00.140>okay, <00:37:00.940>so <00:37:01.260>that's <00:37:01.520>really <00:37:01.720>interesting. 87 00:37:02.060 --> 00:37:38.110 Now, <00:37:02.500>I <00:37:02.820>know <00:37:02.980>that <00:37:03.140>you've <00:37:03.400>taken <00:37:03.720>this <00:37:04.100>a <00:37:04.460>little <00:37:04.660>bit <00:37:04.840>further <00:37:05.200>than <00:37:05.400>just <00:37:05.620>being <00:37:05.920>sort <00:37:06.140>of <00:37:06.220>like <00:37:06.340>an <00:37:06.440>interested <00:37:06.880>party <00:37:07.360>and <00:37:07.680>doing <00:37:08.000>this <00:37:08.420>for <00:37:08.760>yourself <00:37:09.480>and <00:37:10.000>your <00:37:10.280>clients. <00:37:11.330>You <00:37:11.670>were <00:37:12.170>mentioning <00:37:12.450>before <00:37:12.770>the <00:37:13.050>call <00:37:13.530>was <00:37:14.150>recorded <00:37:14.670>that <00:37:15.010>you've <00:37:15.630>got <00:37:15.750>a <00:37:15.990>course <00:37:16.390>out <00:37:16.630>there <00:37:16.890>and <00:37:17.110>you <00:37:17.250>would <00:37:17.390>obviously <00:37:17.650>therefore <00:37:17.950>like <00:37:18.350>to <00:37:18.770>share <00:37:20.670>your <00:37:20.870>expertise. <00:37:21.810>Do <00:37:21.890>you <00:37:21.910>want <00:37:21.970>to <00:37:22.030>just

<00:37:22.210>tell <00:37:22.610>us <00:37:22.750>a <00:37:22.850>little <00:37:22.970>bit <00:37:23.130>about <00:37:23.390>that? <00:37:23.810>So, <00:37:24.190>I <00:37:24.250>don't <00:37:24.350>know, <00:37:24.570>you <00:37:24.650>might <00:37:24.830>get <00:37:24.970>into <00:37:25.210>what <00:37:25.430>the <00:37:25.530>course <00:37:25.770>covers. <00:37:26.370>Maybe <00:37:26.850>it's <00:37:27.110>like <00:37:27.310>halfway <00:37:27.950>through <00:37:28.270>being <00:37:28.610>completed <00:37:29.250>or <00:37:29.610>prepared. <00:37:31.010>Maybe <00:37:31.490>some <00:37:31.730>URLs <00:37:32.230>so <00:37:32.610>that <00:37:32.690>we <00:37:32.770>can <00:37:32.850>put <00:37:32.990>those <00:37:33.230>into <00:37:33.390>the <00:37:33.550>show <00:37:33.790>notes <00:37:34.150>and <00:37:34.390>anything <00:37:34.870>else <00:37:35.130>that <00:37:35.290>you <00:37:35.390>think <00:37:35.550>is <00:37:35.650>relevant. <00:37:36.230>So, <00:37:36.470>just <00:37:36.610>go <00:37:36.990>for <00:37:37.130>it. <00:37:37.290>Blow <00:37:37.410>your <00:37:37.590>own <00:37:37.750>trumpet. 88 00:37:40.910 --> 00:37:58.330 Yeah, <00:37:41.350>like <00:37:41.790>I <00:37:41.930>said, <00:37:42.170>I <00:37:42.210>learned <00:37:42.430>by <00:37:42.610>doing <00:37:42.970>and <00:37:43.510>everything <00:37:43.990>felt <00:37:44.450>a <00:37:44.970>little <00:37:45.330>like <00:37:46.410>sort <00:37:46.770>of <00:37:46.890>fuzzy <00:37:47.290>in <00:37:47.550>terms <00:37:47.790>of <00:37:47.970>a <00:37:48.090>pathway <00:37:48.570>and <00:37:49.690>just <00:37:49.890>sort <00:37:50.050>of <00:37:50.250>doing <00:37:51.210>stuff <00:37:51.590>as <00:37:51.810>you <00:37:51.910>learn <00:37:52.110>them. <00:37:52.350>And <00:37:52.390>so, <00:37:52.570>I <00:37:52.690>wanted <00:37:52.910>to <00:37:53.070>create <00:37:53.370>this <00:37:53.830>sort <00:37:54.150>of <00:37:54.290>easy <00:37:54.670>way <00:37:54.870>for <00:37:55.050>somebody <00:37:55.370>to <00:37:55.710>start <00:37:56.230>to <00:37:56.390>make <00:37:56.650>a <00:37:56.870>site <00:37:57.170>more <00:37:57.750>accessible. 89 00:37:58.610 --> 00:38:30.685 And so, whether that's your own or you're trying it with a client site, a lot of times, you know, if you're an agency, your own site is a good place to start because you can sort of play around with things and you know, not have to worry about it impacting the client. And so, I put together an email-based course. Basically, it sends you a task every Monday that you can do 15 minutes, whatever it is. And then this way, it's on Monday, so you can do it on whatever day you need it to. But it's like 52 weeks of a task that you can do that will, at the end of it, get you a much more accessible site. 90 00:38:30.685 --> 00:38:56.585 And <00:38:30.865>I <00:38:30.965>don't <00:38:31.085>go <00:38:31.225>into <00:38:31.405>anything <00:38:31.765>too <00:38:32.065>advanced. <00:38:32.705>I try <00:38:32.845>to <00:38:32.985>keep <00:38:33.225>it <00:38:33.365>for, <00:38:33.845>like <00:38:34.405>I <00:38:35.025>said, <00:38:35.305>baseline, <00:38:36.105>let <00:38:36.465>everybody <00:38:36.845>be <00:38:37.085>able <00:38:37.285>to <00:38:37.585>do <00:38:38.145>this <00:38:38.425>so <00:38:38.705>you're <00:38:39.405>not <00:38:39.625>necessarily <00:38:40.405>going <00:38:40.885>over <00:38:41.225>an <00:38:41.505>accordion <00:38:41.945>or <00:38:42.225>a <00:38:42.405>slider, <00:38:42.765>but <00:38:43.085>you <00:38:43.225>are <00:38:43.465>going <00:38:43.745>over <00:38:44.025>maybe <00:38:44.305>a <00:38:44.485>lot <00:38:44.585>of <00:38:44.685>the <00:38:44.805>components <00:38:45.225>that <00:38:45.505>make <00:38:45.705>up <00:38:45.825>these <00:38:46.025>things, <00:38:46.545>that <00:38:46.805>hopefully <00:38:47.185>you <00:38:47.725>can <00:38:47.885>either <00:38:48.125>see <00:38:49.445>maybe <00:38:49.945>whether <00:38:50.245>something <00:38:50.525>is <00:38:50.785>accessible, <00:38:51.185>even <00:38:51.525>if <00:38:51.665>you <00:38:51.745>don't <00:38:51.925>necessarily <00:38:52.265>know <00:38:52.425>how <00:38:52.525>to <00:38:52.605>fix <00:38:52.805>it, <00:38:53.145>and <00:38:53.705>be <00:38:53.845>able <00:38:53.985>to <00:38:54.125>sort <00:38:54.265>of <00:38:54.365>evaluate <00:38:54.765>these <00:38:55.065>things <00:38:55.305>before <00:38:55.565>you <00:38:55.745>put <00:38:55.905>them <00:38:56.045>on <00:38:56.185>your <00:38:56.325>site. 91 00:38:57.005 --> 00:39:41.755 A little bit of, like, the decision-making around some of that, like... If you're going to do this, is it this or this? Just sort of helping guide the process of doing this, but doing it yourself. I have this course that I've been trying to do. I love the guy who made it. I love the platform that he made it on. I just can't get myself to sit down and do it. And it's because you sort of have to set aside this time to do it, whereas if I can just be like, here, do this right now for 15 minutes, and then if you want to learn more, most of them have some kind of links at the bottom you can learn about, or you can look it up yourself, or you can email me, you know, you can respond to any of the emails and be like, I don't understand what this means. What are you talking about? 92 00:39:42.235 --> 00:40:27.395 But yeah, so I just tried to put it within a framework that would have worked for me, and that I think is a more hands-on approach to doing that. And so yeah, and I try to like, start at a place that, like we talked about, that has a little bit of a higher impact. So like, your, you know, header site logo. And, you know, but then, like, not just doing the header and we're diving right into, like, mega menus and stuff. So I was trying to, like, I tried to, like, organize it in a thoughtful way and make sure that, like, you're taking on some of those impactful things, but not being too advanced yet and sort of taking you through towards

the end where you're sort of talking about, like, a little bit of strategy for implementing it in your marketing, maybe, or, you know, sort of widening the scope of this a little bit. 93 00:40:27.395 --> 00:40:39.595 And so, yeah, it's kineticiris.com slash weekly-accessibility. And it's, yeah, you just sort of sign up. I did add the option to get them all at once, because I had a couple of people ask. 94 00:40:39.595 --> 00:40:40.755 Well, <00:40:39.775>I <00:40:39.895>was <00:40:40.095>just <00:40:40.255>about <00:40:40.475>to <00:40:40.615>say. 95 00:40:41.155 --> 00:41:24.925 And so I was like, yeah, so if you're the kind of person that you're like, I just got to, like, motor through, like, I'm not here to tell you how to learn. You can learn whatever way you learn best. If you're unsure in any way whatsoever, I would encourage the weekly. And then if at some point, halfway through the year, you're like, yeah, forget this, just send me them, you can just, like, ask me, and I'll just send you the rest of them. But I think... Yeah, like, you know, it's your thing. If you want me to, like, send them to you and then, but then you also get the weekly so that you have them. I mean, however you basically want them is how I can provide them to you. They're all sort of, like I said, it's an email-based course, so you can have them all at once. But you get it as a zip. I don't send you 360. I don't send you 52 emails at once. You get them to download. 96 00:41:24.925 --> 00:41:45.285 But <00:41:25.565>yeah, <00:41:26.245>I <00:41:26.645>would <00:41:26.825>encourage <00:41:27.145>that <00:41:27.485>sort <00:41:27.725>of <00:41:27.885>weekly, <00:41:28.325>you <00:41:29.105>know, <00:41:29.625>thing, <00:41:30.065>just <00:41:30.245>to <00:41:30.385>get <00:41:30.565>in <00:41:30.765>the <00:41:31.205>habit <00:41:31.465>of <00:41:31.805>spending <00:41:32.245>a <00:41:32.445>little <00:41:32.545>bit <00:41:32.685>of <00:41:32.785>time <00:41:32.985>each <00:41:33.185>week. <00:41:33.485>Just <00:41:33.585>like <00:41:33.725>anything <00:41:33.965>else, <00:41:34.585>you <00:41:34.645>know, <00:41:34.865>you're <00:41:35.245>trying <00:41:35.405>to <00:41:35.545>market <00:41:35.805>more, <00:41:36.245>you're <00:41:36.325>trying <00:41:36.445>to <00:41:36.585>do <00:41:36.745>things. <00:41:37.205>Any <00:41:37.325>kind <00:41:37.505>of <00:41:37.705>small <00:41:38.365>incremental <00:41:38.765>changes <00:41:39.265>you <00:41:39.485>can <00:41:39.605>make <00:41:39.825>to <00:41:39.985>your <00:41:40.165>own, <00:41:40.525>you <00:41:41.165>know, <00:41:41.445>processes <00:41:41.945>is <00:41:42.425>going <00:41:42.585>to <00:41:42.705>help <00:41:42.905>you. <00:41:43.285>So <00:41:43.405>that's <00:41:43.665>kind <00:41:43.785>of <00:41:43.905>the <00:41:44.025>approach <00:41:44.425>that <00:41:44.905>I <00:41:45.005>took. 97 00:41:45.285 --> 00:42:11.265 So I've been on the internet now for, like, forever, basically, you know. I've never heard that idea. Like, I've never heard of that. Like, a year-long weekly sign-up once, just get a weekly task to do. Why? Like, what the heck? That's such a great idea. Is there some way to like, patent that and then make everybody pay me every time? 98 00:42:11.845 --> 00:42:28.405 No, <00:42:12.345>I <00:42:12.425>think <00:42:12.545>the <00:42:12.805>only <00:42:12.905>thing <00:42:13.165>that <00:42:13.365>came <00:42:13.565>closest <00:42:14.005>to <00:42:14.285>it <00:42:14.485>was <00:42:14.705>somebody <00:42:15.045>had <00:42:15.265>done <00:42:15.465>some <00:42:15.685>sort <00:42:15.885>of <00:42:16.045>landing <00:42:16.445>page <00:42:17.025>thing. <00:42:17.545>And <00:42:17.925>I <00:42:18.025>don't <00:42:18.145>think <00:42:18.265>it <00:42:18.345>was <00:42:18.445>a <00:42:18.545>full <00:42:18.705>year, <00:42:19.045>but <00:42:19.205>it <00:42:19.305>was <00:42:19.425>like <00:42:19.565>an <00:42:19.705>email <00:42:19.985>thing <00:42:20.225>where <00:42:20.385>they <00:42:20.485>would <00:42:20.605>send <00:42:20.825>you <00:42:21.045>like <00:42:21.525>a <00:42:21.625>tip <00:42:21.925>each <00:42:22.545>week. <00:42:22.865>And <00:42:22.905>I <00:42:23.145>think <00:42:23.345>that <00:42:23.485>was, <00:42:23.905>I <00:42:23.965>had <00:42:24.125>saved <00:42:24.485>a <00:42:24.625>bunch <00:42:24.785>of <00:42:24.905>those <00:42:25.085>to <00:42:25.245>revisit. <00:42:25.885>And <00:42:26.205>so <00:42:26.305>I <00:42:26.385>think <00:42:26.485>that <00:42:26.665>kind <00:42:26.825>of <00:42:26.985>prompted <00:42:27.345>a <00:42:27.525>little <00:42:27.665>bit <00:42:27.805>of <00:42:27.925>that <00:42:28.085>idea. 99 00:42:28.765 --> 00:42:54.085 And <00:42:29.085>then <00:42:29.205>I <00:42:29.365>talked <00:42:29.585>about <00:42:29.805>it <00:42:29.965>in, <00:42:30.485>you <00:42:30.545>know, <00:42:30.685>I <00:42:30.725>meet <00:42:31.105>with <00:42:31.245>a <00:42:31.365>group <00:42:31.525>every <00:42:31.745>Thursday <00:42:32.105>and <00:42:32.465>we <00:42:32.665>all <00:42:32.805>talk <00:42:33.005>about <00:42:33.145>each <00:42:33.305>other's <00:42:33.545>businesses. <00:42:34.145>And <00:42:34.205>so <00:42:34.705>between <00:42:35.045>that <00:42:35.445>and <00:42:35.605>like <00:42:35.745>brainstorming, <00:42:36.485>I <00:42:36.565>want <00:42:36.745>to <00:42:36.845>do <00:42:36.945>a <00:42:37.105>course, <00:42:37.425>but <00:42:37.865>I <00:42:38.005>don't <00:42:38.445>want <00:42:38.585>to <00:42:38.685>do <00:42:38.825>a <00:42:38.985>course. <00:42:39.385>I <00:42:39.705>had <00:42:39.845>done <00:42:39.985>a <00:42:40.145>course <00:42:40.465>a <00:42:41.365>while <00:42:41.565>ago <00:42:41.785>that <00:42:42.045>I <00:42:43.025>didn't <00:42:43.325>do <00:42:43.445>any, <00:42:43.785>like, <00:42:44.005>I <00:42:44.065>just <00:42:44.285>kind <00:42:44.585>of <00:42:44.685>did <00:42:44.865>it. <00:42:45.225>It <00:42:45.465>was <00:42:45.625>like <00:42:45.845>how <00:42:46.105>to

<00:42:46.225>finish <00:42:46.505>your <00:42:46.725>site, <00:42:46.885>like <00:42:47.185>basically <00:42:47.605>if <00:42:48.305>you <00:42:48.425>had <00:42:48.685>a <00:42:48.805>site <00:42:49.145>and <00:42:49.825>it <00:42:50.065>was <00:42:50.205>taking <00:42:50.425>you <00:42:50.565>forever <00:42:50.825>to <00:42:51.025>like <00:42:51.205>get <00:42:51.405>it <00:42:51.505>done. <00:42:51.785>And <00:42:52.105>then <00:42:52.225>it <00:42:52.305>was <00:42:52.425>like <00:42:52.545>a <00:42:52.645>way <00:42:52.785>to <00:42:52.885>like, <00:42:53.225>here's <00:42:53.445>how <00:42:53.525>to <00:42:53.605>finish <00:42:53.845>it. 100 00:42:54.205 --> 00:43:02.645 And <00:42:54.325>it <00:42:54.605>was, <00:42:54.845>it <00:42:55.185>was <00:42:55.345>a <00:42:55.465>good, <00:42:55.705>it <00:42:55.765>was <00:42:55.885>good, <00:42:56.305>but <00:42:56.405>it <00:42:56.505>was <00:42:56.645>just, <00:42:57.105>it <00:42:57.285>was <00:42:57.425>typical, <00:42:57.865>right? <00:42:57.965>You're <00:42:58.165>just <00:42:58.265>sitting <00:42:58.445>there <00:42:58.585>watching <00:42:58.925>15 <00:42:59.805>to <00:42:59.965>20 <00:43:00.185>minute <00:43:00.365>videos <00:43:00.745>and <00:43:00.985>you're <00:43:01.125>like, <00:43:01.365>okay. <00:43:01.785>And <00:43:01.845>then, <00:43:02.065>but <00:43:02.145>there's <00:43:02.365>no. 101 00:43:02.915 --> 00:43:32.255 Real way to incorporate that into what you're doing. You're just like, yeah, okay, I'll get to that. And it just never happens. With so many things, it doesn't even have to be business-related. Any kind of personal development. It feels the gap between learning that you need to do a thing or you should or you want to do a thing and actually doing the thing. There's such a big gap for so many people, myself included, to just get started. So I don't know. It just sort of clicked and I did it. 102 00:43:32.255 --> 00:44:03.535 I think that is, genuinely, I think that's a really genius idea. I know the way it worked for me is that I would get them each week and I would put them in my note-taking app and then I would have like, I don't know, I would maybe tackle like three of them in one go and then the next few would arrive and I'd probably do the same thing. But the fact that they're just sort of just dropping in... And it's kind of like this helpful Monday slot where, you know, you're beginning the week, you maybe got a little bit of extra time that you could map to Thursday or something like that. 103 00:44:03.735 --> 00:44:08.875 Yeah. <00:44:04.215>That's <00:44:04.575>such <00:44:04.895>a <00:44:05.095>neat <00:44:05.595>idea. <00:44:06.295>Honestly, <00:44:06.655>that's <00:44:07.235>genius. <00:44:07.795>I <00:44:08.235>love <00:44:08.635>that. 104 00:44:08.935 --> 00:44:15.255 I <00:44:09.195>appreciate <00:44:09.595>you <00:44:09.775>saying <00:44:09.915>that. <00:44:11.395>You <00:44:11.835>wait, <00:44:12.375>there's <00:44:12.535>going <00:44:12.695>to

<00:44:12.755>be <00:44:12.915>some <00:44:13.255>copycats <00:44:14.175>coming <00:44:14.455>off <00:44:14.615>the <00:44:14.735>back <00:44:14.915>of <00:44:15.035>this. 105 00:44:15.635 --> 00:44:22.795 Give <00:44:15.875>us <00:44:16.015>the <00:44:16.155>URL <00:44:16.415>again, <00:44:16.915>because <00:44:17.155>you <00:44:17.415>said <00:44:17.575>it <00:44:17.695>was, <00:44:18.055>so <00:44:18.535>you <00:44:19.275>said <00:44:19.795>it, <00:44:20.155>but <00:44:20.255>you've <00:44:21.575>got <00:44:21.655>to <00:44:21.775>spell <00:44:21.975>it <00:44:22.115>right, <00:44:22.355>I <00:44:22.435>suppose. 106 00:44:22.795 --> 00:44:51.595 Yes, right. So Kinetic Iris is my agency. So Kinetic is like the energy kinetic. The movement, yeah. Yep. And Iris, like the flower or the goddess, and .com. And then it's weekly-accessibility. Okay. So I'm going to spell it. So it's K-I-N-E-T-I-C-I-R-I-S, so Kinetic Iris, .com forward slash, and what was it, weekly hyphen? 107 00:44:51.595 --> 00:44:53.500 Mm-hmm. Accessibility. 108 00:44:53.820 --> 00:45:26.360 Accessibility. Okay, we're definitely putting that into the show notes. So I don't know what episode this will turn out to be on the WP Builds podcast RSS feed, but essentially the best way to do it would be to go to wpbuilds.com, search for Danielle. I don't know that we've had another Danielle on the podcast ever, so that's probably going to get you there. And then you'll be able to find in the show notes towards the bottom, we'll put a link to that in case you, I don't know, you've been listening to this on the train and you've just forgotten all about it. It'll be there. 109 00:45:26.460 --> 00:46:00.840 Yeah. <00:45:27.260>And <00:45:27.700>it's <00:45:27.920>something <00:45:28.140>that <00:45:28.440>I've <00:45:28.720>already <00:45:29.140>updated, <00:45:30.900>like <00:45:31.100>I <00:45:31.760>provide <00:45:32.300>you <00:45:32.540>with <00:45:32.780>a <00:45:33.320>really <00:45:33.560>simplified, <00:45:34.520>like <00:45:34.600>easy <00:45:34.920>to <00:45:35.040>use <00:45:35.280>version <00:45:35.640>of <00:45:36.040>like <00:45:36.360>an <00:45:36.460>audit <00:45:36.800>template <00:45:37.140>that <00:45:37.400>you <00:45:37.500>can <00:45:37.640>keep <00:45:37.800>track <00:45:38.020>of <00:45:38.300>like <00:45:38.520>changes <00:45:39.080>if <00:45:39.400>you <00:45:39.480>don't <00:45:39.660>like <00:45:39.860>it, <00:45:40.020>like <00:45:40.120>you're <00:45:40.280>saying, <00:45:40.660>where <00:45:40.760>if <00:45:40.920>you're <00:45:41.060>like, <00:45:41.400>I'll <00:45:41.900>learn <00:45:42.140>how <00:45:42.380>to <00:45:42.520>do <00:45:42.680>this <00:45:42.900>and <00:45:43.020>I'll <00:45:43.140>just <00:45:43.320>put <00:45:43.540>like <00:45:43.640>put <00:45:43.900>stuff <00:45:44.140>I <00:45:44.260>got <00:45:44.400>to <00:45:44.520>do. <00:45:44.820>And <00:45:45.380>then <00:45:45.480>you <00:45:45.600>can <00:45:45.720>go <00:45:45.920>on <00:45:46.160>later <00:45:46.400>and <00:45:46.580>sort <00:45:46.740>of <00:45:46.880>complete <00:45:47.380>a <00:45:47.480>bunch <00:45:47.640>of <00:45:47.720>them <00:45:47.800>at <00:45:47.940>once. <00:45:48.360>And <00:45:48.480>I <00:45:49.180>had <00:45:49.340>updated <00:45:49.740>that <00:45:49.980>template. <00:45:50.280>So <00:45:50.500>I <00:45:50.640>sent <00:45:50.880>out <00:45:51.040>an <00:45:51.160>email <00:45:51.340>to <00:45:51.480>everyone <00:45:51.720>to <00:45:51.880>kind <00:45:51.980>of <00:45:52.040>be <00:45:52.140>like, <00:45:52.380>hey, <00:45:52.820>I <00:45:53.340>added <00:45:53.540>some <00:45:53.740>columns <00:45:54.120>and <00:45:54.260>made <00:45:54.400>it <00:45:54.480>a <00:45:54.580>little <00:45:54.660>easier. <00:45:55.260>So <00:45:55.480>as <00:45:56.800>I <00:45:56.920>also <00:45:57.220>put <00:45:57.500>out <00:45:57.660>more <00:45:57.880>like <00:45:58.100>maybe <00:45:58.320>blog <00:45:58.620>posts <00:45:59.000>or <00:45:59.140>content <00:45:59.520>and <00:45:59.700>stuff, <00:46:00.060>I'll... 110 00:46:01.220 --> 00:46:30.640 If <00:46:01.700>you <00:46:01.800>want, <00:46:02.320>you <00:46:02.400>can <00:46:02.600>always <00:46:02.780>opt <00:46:02.960>out, <00:46:03.300>but <00:46:03.400>I'll <00:46:03.660>send, <00:46:04.820>hey, <00:46:05.200>I'm <00:46:05.460>adding <00:46:05.640>this <00:46:05.900>link <00:46:06.240>to <00:46:06.840>this <00:46:07.200>topic <00:46:08.040>if <00:46:08.360>you've <00:46:08.540>already <00:46:08.780>passed <00:46:09.240>that, <00:46:10.000>and <00:46:10.060>I <00:46:10.180>can <00:46:10.360>let <00:46:11.060>you <00:46:11.200>know <00:46:11.320>that <00:46:11.460>I've <00:46:11.640>updated <00:46:11.940>it, <00:46:12.160>because <00:46:12.380>the <00:46:12.860>internet's <00:46:13.240>always <00:46:13.380>changing, <00:46:13.880>right? <00:46:14.100>So <00:46:14.180>it's <00:46:14.360>like <00:46:14.480>I <00:46:14.600>just <00:46:14.800>wrote <00:46:15.120>something <00:46:15.640>on <00:46:16.000>putting <00:46:16.680>lists <00:46:17.000>in <00:46:17.160>columns, <00:46:17.640>and <00:46:18.020>so <00:46:18.120>that <00:46:18.280>can <00:46:18.440>apply <00:46:18.780>to <00:46:19.020>this <00:46:19.340>concept <00:46:20.140>that <00:46:20.320>I <00:46:20.400>talked <00:46:20.580>about <00:46:20.800>in <00:46:20.940>whatever <00:46:21.200>email, <00:46:21.820>and <00:46:21.900>so <00:46:22.140>I'm <00:46:22.440>obviously <00:46:24.120>keeping <00:46:24.400>it <00:46:24.560>updated <00:46:24.880>and <00:46:25.120>stuff. <00:46:25.380>And <00:46:26.040>if <00:46:26.540>there's <00:46:26.800>enough <00:46:27.000>interest, <00:46:27.300>I <00:46:27.460>can <00:46:27.580>put <00:46:27.740>an <00:46:27.860>advanced <00:46:28.180>one <00:46:28.380>out <00:46:28.580>if <00:46:28.760>it's <00:46:28.960>something <00:46:29.240>that <00:46:29.420>people <00:46:29.600>really <00:46:29.820>find <00:46:30.060>helpful. 111 00:46:30.700 --> 00:46:49.820 I'd

<00:46:31.060>love <00:46:31.140>to <00:46:31.300>talk <00:46:31.500>more <00:46:31.700>about <00:46:31.920>advanced <00:46:32.240>issues <00:46:32.580>and, <00:46:32.940>like, <00:46:33.720>you <00:46:33.780>know, <00:46:33.940>here's <00:46:34.180>what <00:46:34.280>it <00:46:34.360>actually <00:46:34.580>takes <00:46:34.820>to <00:46:34.960>make <00:46:35.120>these <00:46:35.340>tabs. <00:46:35.660>Yeah, <00:46:36.000>you'll <00:46:36.380>have <00:46:36.500>the <00:46:36.640>100. <00:46:36.940>Here's how <00:46:37.000>to <00:46:37.080>actually <00:46:37.480>test <00:46:37.920>this <00:46:38.220>with <00:46:38.500>your <00:46:38.660>keyboard, <00:46:39.060>and, <00:46:39.520>you <00:46:40.000>know, <00:46:40.040>I <00:46:40.300>don't <00:46:40.420>really <00:46:40.580>go <00:46:40.760>into <00:46:40.920>too <00:46:41.100>many <00:46:41.320>of, <00:46:41.600>like, <00:46:42.040>here's <00:46:42.340>how <00:46:42.480>to <00:46:42.620>test <00:46:42.820>with <00:46:42.980>a <00:46:43.080>screen <00:46:43.300>reader, <00:46:43.700>do <00:46:43.800>any <00:46:43.980>of <00:46:44.120>that. <00:46:44.400>You <00:46:44.480>know, <00:46:44.600>that's <00:46:44.780>just <00:46:45.200>so <00:46:45.360>much <00:46:45.500>more <00:46:45.620>complicated <00:46:46.080>and <00:46:46.460>too <00:46:46.660>much <00:46:46.860>demonstration <00:46:47.520>required <00:46:48.020>to <00:46:48.620>do <00:46:48.800>it <00:46:48.940>in <00:46:49.140>email <00:46:49.500>form. 112 00:46:49.920 --> 00:46:52.840 Oh, I'm loving it. I think that's such a great idea. 113 00:46:52.840 --> 00:47:09.315 Yeah, but also, like, from a creator's point of view, I mean, I don't know how you did it, maybe you wrote all 52 of them off the bat, but from a creator's point of view, so long as you're writing one a week... You're always ahead of the curve. I mean, apart from the few that want the whole download. You probably should do maybe make sure you're at least like five weeks ahead of time. 114 00:47:12.015 --> 00:47:40.815 Because <00:47:12.375>that <00:47:12.635>for <00:47:13.095>content <00:47:13.475>creators, <00:47:14.115>when <00:47:14.195>they're <00:47:14.335>making <00:47:14.535>their <00:47:14.755>course, <00:47:15.255>you <00:47:15.315>know <00:47:15.735>how <00:47:16.155>it <00:47:16.295>goes. <00:47:16.575>They <00:47:16.715>offer <00:47:16.915>the <00:47:17.035>course, <00:47:17.855>get <00:47:17.995>a <00:47:18.115>load <00:47:18.215>of <00:47:18.315>people <00:47:18.535>to <00:47:18.675>buy <00:47:18.935>it, <00:47:19.175>and <00:47:19.215>then <00:47:19.315>they've <00:47:19.435>got <00:47:19.515>this <00:47:19.675>pressure <00:47:19.955>to <00:47:20.115>do <00:47:20.275>it. <00:47:20.475>And <00:47:20.515>inevitably, <00:47:21.235>it <00:47:21.655>ends <00:47:21.855>up <00:47:21.955>being <00:47:22.155>longer. <00:47:23.155>You <00:47:23.375>know, <00:47:23.635>more <00:47:23.855>topics <00:47:24.255>need <00:47:24.475>to <00:47:24.595>be <00:47:24.715>covered, <00:47:25.035>or <00:47:25.435>they <00:47:25.675>figure <00:47:26.035>out <00:47:26.175>the <00:47:26.295>editing <00:47:26.615>process <00:47:26.975>is <00:47:27.195>much <00:47:27.355>more <00:47:27.515>of <00:47:27.615>a <00:47:27.695>nightmare <00:47:27.975>and <00:47:28.135>what <00:47:28.275>have <00:47:28.455>you. <00:47:29.275>It <00:47:29.675>makes <00:47:29.815>it <00:47:29.975>more <00:47:30.135>nimble <00:47:30.555>too, <00:47:30.775>because <00:47:31.275>like <00:47:31.675>I <00:47:31.835>said, <00:47:32.135>if <00:47:32.175>something <00:47:32.435>changes, <00:47:33.155>I'm <00:47:33.255>seeing <00:47:33.575>like <00:47:33.895>there's <00:47:35.235>the <00:47:35.555>one <00:47:35.715>guy <00:47:35.835>who's <00:47:36.035>got <00:47:36.135>the <00:47:36.275>Cloudflare <00:47:36.935>course, <00:47:38.315>and <00:47:38.515>they'll <00:47:38.695>like <00:47:38.855>change <00:47:39.235>their <00:47:39.435>screens <00:47:39.935>every <00:47:40.255>two <00:47:40.435>seconds. 115 00:47:41.015 --> 00:48:26.920 And so anything that he's, you know, recorded is going to look outdated. Or, you know, if you're trying to teach something in WordPress and they've changed the admin area. And so it just sort of like it helps keep it more up to date without having to like cut up your videos and re-edit and re-record and do all this stuff. And I saw it as a way to like... Like I said, this way I'm able to put out content on something that's pertinent or, you know, whatever, and I don't have to do it and then, like, somebody has to figure out how that fits into the larger picture. I can, like, do that for you, basically, and you can get that update email and then just sort of, if you're, like you said, if you're keeping track of, like, links you like in a document based on this course, then you can, you know, add that link to this area. It's just, it gives somebody more flexibility to learn how they learn. 116 00:48:26.920 --> 00:48:56.760 Yeah. And you get it in an email. So, you don't have to have a membership for anything. You just get an email. Okay. I think we'll knock it on the head there, as we say, in the UK. So, go and check it out. So, Danielle, go and search for that on wpbuilds.com. The search icon's top right, usually. And you'll be able to find that out. That's really interesting. So, first of all, thank you for telling us all about your journey with accessibility and accessibility, he said, unable to say it, but also thank you for that. 117 00:48:57.520 --> 00:49:34.810 Holy <00:48:57.920>grail <00:48:58.320>of <00:48:58.580>interest <00:48:58.980>at <00:48:59.160>the <00:48:59.260>end <00:48:59.420>there <00:48:59.620>about <00:48:59.840>how <00:49:00.040>to, <00:49:00.460>I'm <00:49:01.060>going <00:49:01.180>to <00:49:01.260>go <00:49:01.380>and <00:49:01.500>do <00:49:01.600>that <00:49:01.820>now. <00:49:03.040>I'm <00:49:03.440>not, <00:49:03.840>by <00:49:03.920>the <00:49:04.020>way. <00:49:04.580>But I <00:49:04.720>think

<00:49:04.840>that's <00:49:05.040>a <00:49:05.180>genius <00:49:05.480>idea. <00:49:06.120>I <00:49:06.280>have <00:49:06.440>thoughts. <00:49:06.960>I'll <00:49:07.220>tell <00:49:07.460>you <00:49:07.640>them <00:49:07.860>in <00:49:08.080>a <00:49:08.180>moment <00:49:08.420>after <00:49:08.740>we've <00:49:09.040>hit. <00:49:09.350>Perfect. <00:49:10.070>Yeah, <00:49:10.330>and <00:49:10.370>it's <00:49:10.530>something <00:49:10.730>that <00:49:11.050>I'd <00:49:11.310>love <00:49:11.490>to, <00:49:11.810>if <00:49:11.870>there's <00:49:12.050>an <00:49:12.170>agency <00:49:12.550>that's <00:49:12.890>interested <00:49:13.270>and <00:49:13.490>wants <00:49:13.770>to <00:49:13.970>like, <00:49:14.430>I <00:49:14.610>think <00:49:14.990>it <00:49:15.550>could <00:49:15.690>really <00:49:15.950>be <00:49:16.150>helpful <00:49:16.530>if <00:49:17.450>you <00:49:17.550>have <00:49:17.770>some <00:49:17.990>people <00:49:18.510>that <00:49:18.710>you're <00:49:18.890>hiring <00:49:19.350>that <00:49:20.430>are <00:49:20.610>really <00:49:20.890>great <00:49:21.270>and <00:49:21.750>then <00:49:21.910>you <00:49:22.050>also <00:49:22.330>want <00:49:22.490>to <00:49:22.570>make <00:49:22.710>sure <00:49:22.830>they <00:49:22.990>have <00:49:23.210>this <00:49:23.370>accessibility <00:49:23.810>baseline. <00:49:24.650>You <00:49:24.970>know, <00:49:25.110>it <00:49:25.190>could <00:49:25.290>just <00:49:25.430>be <00:49:25.550>part <00:49:25.730>of <00:49:25.830>their <00:49:25.950>onboarding, <00:49:26.710>right, <00:49:26.830>like, <00:49:27.190>whether <00:49:27.890>you <00:49:28.030>want <00:49:28.330>to <00:49:28.490>download <00:49:28.670>it <00:49:28.930>all <00:49:28.950>at <00:49:29.190>once <00:49:29.450>and <00:49:29.810>maybe <00:49:30.410>give <00:49:30.690>them <00:49:30.950>a <00:49:31.210>task <00:49:31.470>a <00:49:31.610>day <00:49:31.890>or <00:49:32.350>something <00:49:32.630>so <00:49:32.830>that <00:49:32.950>you <00:49:33.090>don't <00:49:33.190>have <00:49:33.290>to <00:49:33.330>wait <00:49:33.450>a <00:49:33.550>whole <00:49:33.650>year <00:49:33.850>for <00:49:33.990>them <00:49:34.110>to <00:49:34.210>be <00:49:34.310>up <00:49:34.430>to <00:49:34.530>speed. 118 00:49:34.810 --> 00:49:47.310 But if there's some way that you want to organize it to be able to, like, just give everybody that baseline, I just, I want as many people to be doing things excessively because it's second nature to them and not because they feel like it's a task that they have to check out. 119 00:49:47.310 --> 00:50:00.050 I can feel the next course coming on. So it's going to be kineticiris.com forward slash daily slash accessibility. 365 emails will be coming your way. Okay, Danielle, thank you so much for chatting to me today. 120 00:50:00.090 --> 00:50:01.370 Thanks <00:50:00.270>for <00:50:00.370>having <00:50:00.630>me. <00:50:00.870>Yeah, <00:50:01.070>you're <00:50:01.150>welcome. 121 00:50:01.980 --> 00:50:31.900 Okay, that's all we've got time for today. I hope that you enjoyed that. If you did, head to wpbuilds.com, search for episode 483, 483, leave us a comment there. Just a quick reminder, if you would, and I urge you to, be involved in the new podcast app that I'm launching, it is very, very, very, very, like days away close, head to nathanrigley.com forward slash app, fill out the form there, and we'll let you know when it is finally launched and you'll get some seriously aggressive pricing. 122 00:50:31.980 --> 00:50:50.440 So <00:50:32.600>that <00:50:32.780>you <00:50:32.880>can <00:50:33.000>help <00:50:33.220>us <00:50:33.440>build <00:50:33.880>the <00:50:34.260>thing <00:50:34.560>and <00:50:34.800>refine <00:50:35.160>it <00:50:35.420>and <00:50:35.580>shape <00:50:35.900>it <00:50:36.060>a <00:50:36.200>little <00:50:36.340>bit <00:50:36.520>towards <00:50:36.800>the <00:50:37.020>beginning. <00:50:37.460>It's <00:50:37.660>a <00:50:37.720>bit <00:50:37.780>like <00:50:37.960>a <00:50:38.080>Kickstarter, <00:50:38.960>isn't <00:50:39.100>it? <00:50:39.280>Feels <00:50:39.640>like <00:50:39.940>that <00:50:40.220>anyway. <00:50:41.000>So <00:50:41.480>there <00:50:41.660>we <00:50:41.820>go. <00:50:42.200>I <00:50:42.660>hope <00:50:42.880>that <00:50:43.020>you <00:50:43.100>enjoyed <00:50:43.460>that. <00:50:43.980>I'm <00:50:44.220>going <00:50:44.380>to <00:50:44.460>fade <00:50:44.700>in <00:50:44.820>some <00:50:45.000>cheesy <00:50:45.340>music <00:50:45.740>and <00:50:46.100>say <00:50:46.420>stay <00:50:46.880>safe. <00:50:47.880>You <00:50:48.360>have <00:50:48.540>a <00:50:48.620>good <00:50:48.720>week. <00:50:49.420>Bye <00:50:49.860>bye <00:50:50.000>for <00:50:50.200>now.