บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Ep.64 “People Pleasing Is Manipulative”: A Boundary Setting Bootcamp With Michelle Elman

you could die 41 00:01:41.819 --> 00:01:44.819 pretty soon, what are the key ways that that changed 42 00:01:44.879 --> 00:01:47.180 the way you live and your mindset? 43 00:01:47.700 --> 00:01:49.159 I would even go as far as to say that 44 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:52.969 people pleasing can be quite manipulative. It's actually just nonsense. 45 00:01:53.170 --> 00:01:55.549 If it's something that's so easy, then why are we 46 00:01:55.590 --> 00:01:56.290 all struggling with it? 47 00:01:56.310 --> 00:01:59.310 The reason why women have been trained to communicate indirectly 48 00:01:59.329 --> 00:02:02.349 is because... You can't live your life scared you're going 49 00:02:02.370 --> 00:02:04.670 to die every day or scared of anything. 50 00:02:04.730 --> 00:02:07.189 How can we practice self-love daily? 51 00:02:07.310 --> 00:02:10.090 Your inner voice is not yours. It doesn't belong to you. 52 00:02:10.189 --> 00:02:13.009 It's someone else who taught you that. You cannot profit 53 00:02:13.159 --> 00:02:16.659 off someone loving themselves. You can profit off someone hating themselves. 54 00:02:17.180 --> 00:02:20.020 Being in a relationship will not fix your loneliness. 55 00:02:20.300 --> 00:02:22.500 So how would you recommend someone sets boundaries when they're dating? 56 00:02:22.879 --> 00:02:25.960 So do you think too many people are settling when 57 00:02:26.000 --> 00:02:27.419 it comes to dating in relationships? 58 00:02:27.939 --> 00:02:29.580 The reason why people settle is because. 59 00:02:39.370 --> 00:02:42.659 Today, we are having a bootcamp, okay? I hope you're ready. 60 00:02:42.810 --> 00:02:44.539 I hope you're feeling enthusiastic. I hope you got your 61 00:02:44.580 --> 00:02:48.680 notes app out. We are having a bootcamp on boundaries, 62 00:02:49.300 --> 00:02:53.039 especially when it comes to dating with self-worth, with general relationships, 63 00:02:53.080 --> 00:02:55.419 with relationships with your friends, in your life, all of that. 64 00:02:55.819 --> 00:02:58.280 I felt like I'd had an absolute pep talk on 65 00:02:58.340 --> 00:03:00.740 boundaries and how important they are and how we need 66 00:03:00.759 --> 00:03:02.960 to be setting them more and how much they just 67 00:03:02.979 --> 00:03:05.360 generally improve your life. So I hope you're ready. I 68 00:03:05.379 --> 00:03:07.000 hope you're ready to learn. I hope you're ready to 69 00:03:07.060 --> 00:03:10.310 have a full-on pep talk. This was very much a 70 00:03:10.370 --> 00:03:12.830 needed episode and I'm going to be taking these learnings 71 00:03:12.849 --> 00:03:14.789 away and very much implementing them because I feel like 72 00:03:14.810 --> 00:03:17.639 we always just slip sometimes with our boundaries. Today's the bootcamp. 73 00:03:17.919 --> 00:03:19.419 I hope you enjoy it. As always, if you do 74 00:03:19.460 --> 00:03:23.099 enjoy it, please make sure to rate, subscribe, like. I 75 00:03:23.139 --> 00:03:24.780 literally don't

know what app you're on, so I can't 76 00:03:24.840 --> 00:03:26.930 actually help with what you should be doing, but whatever 77 00:03:26.949 --> 00:03:28.250 it looks like you should be doing, it would be 78 00:03:28.289 --> 00:03:30.289 really helpful if you could do. And that helps us 79 00:03:30.310 --> 00:03:32.569 get great guests on and have amazing conversations. So thank 80 00:03:32.590 --> 00:03:34.189 you so much. And as always, have a wonderful day. 81 00:03:38.180 --> 00:03:41.039 Michelle Ellman is a woman with a psychology empire. Her 82 00:03:41.080 --> 00:03:44.259 qualifications speak for themselves. She's a five board accredited life coach, 83 00:03:44.599 --> 00:03:48.060 a master practitioner, a master hypnotherapist and a psychologist. Plus 84 00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:50.979 she's published four bestselling books. But these accolades are more 85 00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:53.659 than just a job for Michelle. They're personal. She faced 86 00:03:53.719 --> 00:03:57.780 serious health challenges throughout her childhood, having to endure 15 surgeries, 87 00:03:57.840 --> 00:04:00.650 followed by periods of intense self-doubt and low body confidence 88 00:04:00.689 --> 00:04:04.099 due to her scars. Aged just 21, she began her campaign, 89 00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:07.150 Scarred Not Scared, advocating for body confidence and sharing her 90 00:04:07.169 --> 00:04:09.719 story with the world. Now she spends her days coaching 91 00:04:09.800 --> 00:04:13.280 others on the importance of self-love, boundaries and acceptance. I'm 92 00:04:13.360 --> 00:04:15.479 so excited to share her wisdom with you in this episode. 93 00:04:15.939 --> 00:04:18.180 Thank you so much for joining me. Thanks for having me. 94 00:04:18.259 --> 00:04:20.079 I'd like to start at the beginning so people can 95 00:04:20.100 --> 00:04:21.939 get a bit of background on you. I guess how 96 00:04:21.959 --> 00:04:23.079 you even got to your career now. 97 00:04:23.360 --> 00:04:24.980 Yeah, so I grew up in Hong Kong and then 98 00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:27.720 I came over here for boarding school when I was 11. 99 00:04:27.720 --> 00:04:29.879 And I guess the biggest part of my childhood is 100 00:04:29.899 --> 00:04:31.660 I grew up in and out of hospitals. So I 101 00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:34.060 had 15 surgeries before the age of 19. The 15 102 00:04:34.060 --> 00:04:39.040 surgeries are from a brain tumor, punctured intestine, obstructed bowel, 103 00:04:39.060 --> 00:04:41.600 cyst in my brain, and a condition called hydrocephalus. So 104 00:04:41.620 --> 00:04:46.459 it was a lot of traumatic near-death experiences. And thankfully, 105 00:04:46.529 --> 00:04:49.990 my last surgery and hospitalization was when I was 19. 106 00:04:49.990 --> 00:04:52.610 But I guess that created a lot of how I 107 00:04:52.649 --> 00:04:53.269 lived my life. 108 00:04:53.389 --> 00:04:53.870 Of course. 109 00:04:54.579 --> 00:04:56.779 Everyone knows you're going to die, but to actually live 110 00:04:57.279 --> 00:05:00.040 with the emotional realization of that. And especially when I 111 00:05:00.060 --> 00:05:02.579 was 19, in those two surgeries I had then, I 112 00:05:02.689 --> 00:05:05.790 actually thought, this is it. So that's how I started 113 00:05:05.810 --> 00:05:08.410 writing my first book. It had been an English project 114 00:05:08.430 --> 00:05:09.829 when I was 12 years old, when I was in 115 00:05:09.870 --> 00:05:12.519 year eight, to write an autobiography. And I was like, 116 00:05:12.540 --> 00:05:15.879 I can't leave this earth. with nothing because in my 117 00:05:15.939 --> 00:05:19.300 mind studying was the process to get to the thing 118 00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:22.120 you want to do with your life this book ended 119 00:05:22.160 --> 00:05:24.600 up being like my legacy for my family and friends 120 00:05:24.660 --> 00:05:27.620 so that like I didn't just stop existing one day 121 00:05:28.220 --> 00:05:29.939 and that they would be able to see how what 122 00:05:30.100 --> 00:05:32.459 I thought about back then and what I cared about 123 00:05:32.480 --> 00:05:34.560 and all these things but the problem is once you 124 00:05:34.600 --> 00:05:37.180 finish a book and you want to publish it because 125 00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:38.529 you're like I've written 200,000 words I need it to 126 00:05:38.550 --> 00:05:43.269 be seen And that's what got me onto my author journey. 127 00:05:43.850 --> 00:05:46.569 And along the way, I've always been passionate about psychology. 128 00:05:46.629 --> 00:05:48.600 I decided I was going to be a psychologist at 129 00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:51.120 11 years old, sitting in a hospital bed, because I 130 00:05:51.139 --> 00:05:54.540 met a psychologist through being in the ICU, which was 131 00:05:54.579 --> 00:05:57.800 in America. And psychologists would come around, checking your mental health, 132 00:05:57.860 --> 00:05:59.420 all of that. And that's when I decided I was 133 00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:01.819 going to be a psychologist. And I guess where that 134 00:06:01.839 --> 00:06:04.879 took a turn was when I was in university. In 135 00:06:04.959 --> 00:06:08.660 my third year, I got PTSD from my medical situation. 136 00:06:08.680 --> 00:06:10.990 So The last time I went into hospital was my 137 00:06:11.050 --> 00:06:14.149 second year of university. And then in the third year, 138 00:06:14.629 --> 00:06:18.029 that PTSD kind of brought up all my issues from 139 00:06:18.029 --> 00:06:21.529 11 year olds, sort of younger, but 11 year old 140 00:06:21.569 --> 00:06:25.389 is when I had my most major surgeries. And I 141 00:06:25.480 --> 00:06:27.720 then went to therapy for the first time. And it 142 00:06:27.740 --> 00:06:30.439 was that ironic moment of I'm doing a bachelor's degree 143 00:06:30.579 --> 00:06:32.699 in psychology. I want to be a psychologist. I've known 144 00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:35.360 this for a decade. But now I'm sitting in a 145

00:06:35.399 --> 00:06:37.740 psychologist's office and this isn't helping me. So what do 146 00:06:37.779 --> 00:06:41.000 I do next? So I graduated having no clue what 147 00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:43.899 I wanted to do. But I knew my mental health 148 00:06:43.959 --> 00:06:46.750 was not in the place it should be. Talking therapy 149 00:06:46.790 --> 00:06:48.519 didn't work for me. And I think now we are 150 00:06:48.560 --> 00:06:50.829 much more open to the fact that there are other 151 00:06:50.889 --> 00:06:54.610 holistic ways to view things. And it's quite a well-known 152 00:06:54.670 --> 00:06:58.250 fact that especially when it comes to trauma and PTSD... 153 00:06:58.449 --> 00:07:02.360 talking therapy can sometimes deepen the neurological patterns by talking 154 00:07:02.420 --> 00:07:04.040 about it more, which is why I was getting that 155 00:07:04.100 --> 00:07:07.680 feeling of walking out of a psychologist's office and I 156 00:07:07.740 --> 00:07:10.029 felt worse than when I'd walked in. And there's a, 157 00:07:10.680 --> 00:07:12.519 cliche saying of like, it's got to get worse to 158 00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:14.850 get better. But by the time it had been four months, 159 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:17.769 I was like, it's not getting better. Yeah. So what 160 00:07:17.810 --> 00:07:20.790 I ended up finding was Havening, which is a version 161 00:07:20.810 --> 00:07:25.550 of hypnotherapy. And hypnotherapy led me into life coaching. And basically, 162 00:07:25.569 --> 00:07:27.850 the man who helped me in a session, which sounds 163 00:07:27.910 --> 00:07:30.430 too good to be true. At the end of the session, 164 00:07:30.449 --> 00:07:33.709 I went, whatever you're trained in, I'm getting trained into. 165 00:07:34.009 --> 00:07:35.949 And that's what turned me into a life coach. 166 00:07:35.990 --> 00:07:37.509 And who is this man? Because I need it. 167 00:07:38.170 --> 00:07:41.120 Well, genuinely, it was that thing of when you address 168 00:07:41.139 --> 00:07:44.639 trauma through the lens of it sits within your body, 169 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:47.620 it is a faster fix than talking about something that 170 00:07:47.759 --> 00:07:50.310 ultimately has no solution. Because I was feeling it in 171 00:07:50.329 --> 00:07:52.660 my body and I couldn't stop this physical reaction of, 172 00:07:53.189 --> 00:07:56.790 I would think a thought, have a memory, start hysterically crying. 173 00:07:56.850 --> 00:08:00.009 I couldn't even get to the depths of what the 174 00:08:00.069 --> 00:08:03.680 issue was, because the crying was then bringing up all 175 00:08:03.720 --> 00:08:07.040 the stigma around crying, all the stigma around women being emotional, 176 00:08:07.220 --> 00:08:09.240 all of that. And then you're not actually dealing with 177 00:08:09.259 --> 00:08:12.000 the real problem. So it wasn't a one quick fix, 178 00:08:12.019 --> 00:08:14.269 but it did stop the crying in a session. And 179 00:08:14.310 --> 00:08:16.269 then I now have a life coach that I've had 180 00:08:16.329 --> 00:08:19.810 for over a decade now and a life coach who 181 00:08:19.870 --> 00:08:22.610 helps me. And therefore, when I life coach other people, 182 00:08:23.100 --> 00:08:24.759 I can go, hey, you know what? I've been in 183 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:27.620 that boat. I've been through that situation. You're not alone. 184 00:08:27.879 --> 00:08:31.389 And also, all the exercises I give you are things 185 00:08:31.430 --> 00:08:33.990 I've tried myself because if it doesn't work, I don't 186 00:08:34.049 --> 00:08:34.590 suggest it. 187 00:08:35.330 --> 00:08:37.649 That is such an incredible story. And I can imagine 188 00:08:37.750 --> 00:08:39.750 having that experience of being in and out of hospital 189 00:08:39.809 --> 00:08:43.429 and having so many major surgeries. At that age, if 190 00:08:43.450 --> 00:08:46.100 you're not going through something as traumatic as that, which 191 00:08:46.120 --> 00:08:49.080 obviously the majority of people thankfully aren't, there's not this 192 00:08:49.259 --> 00:08:53.000 real kind of being affronted with being like, oh... this 193 00:08:53.059 --> 00:08:56.799 is very finite, our time here is short. And actually, 194 00:08:57.139 --> 00:08:58.820 you know, all of the trauma that comes with that, 195 00:08:58.860 --> 00:09:03.019 especially if that's being kind of imposed on you so 196 00:09:03.799 --> 00:09:06.679 quickly and to such a strong extent that you as 197 00:09:06.700 --> 00:09:08.620 a teenager are being like, you know, will I make 198 00:09:08.700 --> 00:09:09.700 it through the surgery? 199 00:09:09.860 --> 00:09:11.960 One of the things I've thought about it is like, 200 00:09:12.019 --> 00:09:15.350 especially when I was 19, a lot of people assume 201 00:09:15.370 --> 00:09:17.690 that they're going to live to 90. So a lot 202 00:09:17.730 --> 00:09:20.110 of the life lessons I got weren't just things that 203 00:09:20.210 --> 00:09:23.899 my friends didn't know or understand. but probably won't know 204 00:09:23.980 --> 00:09:26.580 and understand until the end of their life. But there's 205 00:09:26.620 --> 00:09:29.360 this natural assumption that your life is going to be long. 206 00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:32.340 And in many ways, I'm now having to actually learn 207 00:09:32.360 --> 00:09:35.820 that because I've acted like life is so short, which 208 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:39.059 obviously leads to problems like burnout or putting too much 209 00:09:39.100 --> 00:09:42.179 pressure on yourself. I'm now actually having to like wake 210 00:09:42.250 --> 00:09:45.419 up and remind myself, life is long. You're still alive. 211 00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:48.519 You're 30 years old. You thought you'd die at 21. 212 00:09:48.519 --> 00:09:51.620 But you're still alive. You can't do everything in one day. 213 00:09:51.740 --> 00:09:55.730 And you wake up every morning thinking that's it. And 214 00:09:55.970 -->

00:09:57.629 that's kind of how I did live my life, which 215 00:09:57.690 --> 00:10:00.320 is quite understandable why I ended up getting PTSD. because 216 00:10:00.759 --> 00:10:04.220 thinking your life is so limited and short does put 217 00:10:04.279 --> 00:10:06.120 an unnecessary strain on your mental health. 218 00:10:06.620 --> 00:10:09.759 So thinking and having been told that you could die 219 00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:12.919 pretty soon at 19, what are the key ways that 220 00:10:12.980 --> 00:10:16.750 that changed the way you live and your mindset? 221 00:10:17.250 --> 00:10:20.980 I attack life very aggressively, essentially. And I've always been 222 00:10:21.019 --> 00:10:23.759 told with anyone I work with that they've never known 223 00:10:23.799 --> 00:10:26.840 someone so efficient because it is that feeling of my 224 00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:29.460 time running out all the time. But I also think 225 00:10:29.600 --> 00:10:32.100 it's things like I find it really difficult if I 226 00:10:32.139 --> 00:10:34.440 hang up a phone call and someone doesn't say I 227 00:10:34.480 --> 00:10:36.519 love you because I have the thought in my brain 228 00:10:36.649 --> 00:10:38.710 of what if that's the last conversation we're ever going 229 00:10:38.730 --> 00:10:42.750 to have, which sounds lovely in some ways, but also 230 00:10:43.009 --> 00:10:45.830 probably means you're living your life with a lot more fear. 231 00:10:45.970 --> 00:10:48.450 And I think my learning process through the ages of 232 00:10:48.450 --> 00:10:52.409 19 and 23, 24, which was really when I found 233 00:10:52.429 --> 00:10:56.590 my feet again after PTSD, were unlearning that you can't 234 00:10:56.629 --> 00:10:58.929 live your life scared you're going to die every day 235 00:10:59.080 --> 00:11:02.460 or scared of anything, to be honest. And a lot 236 00:11:02.500 --> 00:11:04.740 of my drive was coming from fear. And now I 237 00:11:04.779 --> 00:11:07.919 try to create drive around what I love rather than 238 00:11:08.340 --> 00:11:10.500 being worried about something or scared of something. 239 00:11:11.059 --> 00:11:13.460 And what about the positive shifts in terms of mindset 240 00:11:13.519 --> 00:11:16.019 and in terms of like, you know, I think probably 241 00:11:16.059 --> 00:11:17.850 we all need a little bit of a reminder to 242 00:11:17.909 --> 00:11:20.549 actually live our lives. What are those kind of shifts 243 00:11:20.610 --> 00:11:21.230 that you had? 244 00:11:21.509 --> 00:11:24.320 You don't take everything for granted around you. And I 245 00:11:24.340 --> 00:11:26.360 remember shortly after I came out of hospital when I 246 00:11:26.379 --> 00:11:30.120 was 19, it was actually Valentine's Day. And stereotypically and 247 00:11:30.179 --> 00:11:32.789 the previous year, we had all the single girls had 248 00:11:32.830 --> 00:11:36.610 got I scream out and sat around watching Bridget Jones 249 00:11:36.710 --> 00:11:39.350 and being sad

about being single. And I remember that 250 00:11:39.429 --> 00:11:41.330 year I was like, we're not doing that this year. 251 00:11:41.610 --> 00:11:44.259 We're not wasting 24 hours of our day being sad 252 00:11:44.320 --> 00:11:46.200 because what we have no love in our life. That's 253 00:11:46.379 --> 00:11:49.679 absolute nonsense. We have love. We might not have romantic love. 254 00:11:49.980 --> 00:11:52.179 But we have platonic love. And why are we all 255 00:11:52.220 --> 00:11:55.279 being miserable together when we're literally sitting next to people 256 00:11:55.340 --> 00:11:57.980 who love us? I think they indulged me that year 257 00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:00.000 because I had just come out of hospital. So we 258 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:03.330 did a quadruple date with all the single people on 259 00:12:03.370 --> 00:12:05.590 the corridor. And it was things like that where I 260 00:12:05.669 --> 00:12:08.850 do think... You're never going to emotionally realize you're going 261 00:12:08.870 --> 00:12:11.220 to die soon. But I think by being around me 262 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:13.580 during that period, it did rub off on my friendship 263 00:12:13.620 --> 00:12:15.600 group where I was like, we're not complaining about silly 264 00:12:15.659 --> 00:12:19.090 things that don't matter. So ultimately, it was perspective. It 265 00:12:19.129 --> 00:12:21.129 was context. There was a guy I was seeing through 266 00:12:21.149 --> 00:12:23.389 that period. He ghosted me the moment I went to hospital, 267 00:12:23.429 --> 00:12:26.590 which was great. And I would have been really upset 268 00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:28.889 about that before. And I saw him on that night, 269 00:12:28.970 --> 00:12:30.929 on Valentine's night, and he came up to me and 270 00:12:30.970 --> 00:12:33.309 he said some rubbish thing about how beautiful I was 271 00:12:33.330 --> 00:12:35.289 because I'd lost so much weight. Obviously, I'd not eaten 272 00:12:35.350 --> 00:12:37.570 in the last six weeks because I was hooked up 273 00:12:37.590 --> 00:12:38.169 to a train. 274 00:12:38.309 --> 00:12:40.470 Oh, my God. Dodged a bullet there. 275 00:12:40.649 --> 00:12:42.960 But it didn't affect my night. I was like, I'm 276 00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:45.340 having a great night. You can't affect it. You don't 277 00:12:45.379 --> 00:12:48.460 have that power. And you aren't even touching what I've 278 00:12:48.500 --> 00:12:51.100 just been through. So like no matter how negative or 279 00:12:51.139 --> 00:12:53.740 horrible your comment is, you're just not going to have 280 00:12:53.779 --> 00:12:56.379 that control over me anymore. And I hate that I 281 00:12:56.419 --> 00:12:59.309 had to go into hospital to have that. But it's 282 00:12:59.529 --> 00:13:01.649 a feeling that I like to return to because once 283 00:13:01.690 --> 00:13:03.850 you emotionally feel that, you can hold on to it 284 00:13:03.870 --> 00:13:05.370 and use your memories in a positive way. 285 00:13:05.730 --> 00:13:07.450 And how do you return to that feeling? 286 00:13:07.490 --> 00:13:10.190 So this is a real life coaching thing that I learned. 287 00:13:10.289 --> 00:13:12.720 You know how if you think about a sad memory 288 00:13:12.740 --> 00:13:15.279 in your life long enough, you will start feeling sad. 289 00:13:15.740 --> 00:13:17.679 What we don't realize is you can do the same 290 00:13:17.720 --> 00:13:21.019 with happy memories, but almost reverse engineer it. Go back 291 00:13:21.059 --> 00:13:23.279 to a time in your life when you felt most confident. 292 00:13:23.379 --> 00:13:25.659 I actually do this before public speaking. And I remember 293 00:13:25.700 --> 00:13:28.049 I did this before my TED talk. where I remember 294 00:13:28.870 --> 00:13:30.769 going back to a time in my life I felt 295 00:13:30.830 --> 00:13:33.230 most confident, a time in my life I felt most calm. 296 00:13:33.309 --> 00:13:35.289 And when I say go back to that time, you 297 00:13:35.350 --> 00:13:38.240 literally imagine yourself in your body at the time, breathing 298 00:13:38.289 --> 00:13:40.159 how you were breathing at the time, sitting how you 299 00:13:40.179 --> 00:13:43.080 were sitting at the time, and actually look through your 300 00:13:43.299 --> 00:13:46.159 eyes in that moment and go into your body and 301 00:13:46.299 --> 00:13:48.679 feel what you were feeling in that moment. So you 302 00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:51.659 can borrow that confidence. And what's strange is what I 303 00:13:51.799 --> 00:13:53.970 used for my TED Talk was a meeting I had 304 00:13:54.029 --> 00:13:57.070 when I was... 14 years old but I remember feeling 305 00:13:57.230 --> 00:14:00.529 so confident in that meeting and I went into my 306 00:14:00.549 --> 00:14:03.110 body at the time and I used that confidence to 307 00:14:03.169 --> 00:14:05.169 be confident in my TED talk. You think of a 308 00:14:05.210 --> 00:14:07.850 sad memory, you not only feel sad but your body 309 00:14:07.970 --> 00:14:11.389 adapts to what feeling sad looks like. So stereotypically that's 310 00:14:11.429 --> 00:14:14.259 hunched shoulders and all of that. But that's why the 311 00:14:14.299 --> 00:14:17.820 confidence things works, because if you're confident, your shoulders are back, 312 00:14:17.899 --> 00:14:20.720 you're breathing differently, you're breathing slower. So when you go 313 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:23.519 back in the memory, you actually adopt the physiology you 314 00:14:23.559 --> 00:14:26.220 had at the time. And if you're thinking about a 315 00:14:26.259 --> 00:14:29.179 sad memory and you've got the physiology of being sad, 316 00:14:29.580 --> 00:14:31.139 a lot of the times those are the moments where 317 00:14:31.159 --> 00:14:33.259 you go, I can't remember the time in my life 318 00:14:33.320 --> 00:14:36.190 I was happy. it's because you're sitting literally in a 319 00:14:36.370 --> 00:14:40.029 sad physiology and that physiology is

actually connected to your memories. 320 00:14:40.370 --> 00:14:42.970 So the next time you're feeling really down, go put 321 00:14:43.009 --> 00:14:44.860 your hands on your hips and stand with your shoulders 322 00:14:44.919 --> 00:14:46.679 back and then try to remember the last time you 323 00:14:46.700 --> 00:14:49.639 felt happy. The memory will come back to you faster 324 00:14:49.899 --> 00:14:53.019 because you are actually standing that way when you were happy. 325 00:14:53.559 --> 00:14:55.779 I want to talk a little bit about self-love. I 326 00:14:55.820 --> 00:14:58.169 know you speak about this a lot in your work 327 00:14:58.210 --> 00:15:02.240 and online. Why do you think I guess self-criticism is 328 00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:04.700 so endemic in young people now. 329 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:07.620 I think for a long time we were taught to 330 00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:11.029 believe that if you criticize yourself, constructive criticism, it makes 331 00:15:11.090 --> 00:15:14.289 us better. When actually, especially when you do it to 332 00:15:14.330 --> 00:15:18.350 a child, it becomes their inner voice. And especially if 333 00:15:18.389 --> 00:15:22.110 it's coming from a main caregiver or a parent. As 334 00:15:22.169 --> 00:15:25.110 a child, you look at your parents as being perfect, 335 00:15:25.210 --> 00:15:28.190 as always being right. So if they criticize something like 336 00:15:28.210 --> 00:15:31.379 your body, you take that in and you decide you 337 00:15:31.460 --> 00:15:34.299 are wrong. And that means you lose touch with being 338 00:15:34.340 --> 00:15:36.960 able to trust your instinct, being able to trust your 339 00:15:36.980 --> 00:15:39.480 body if it's around body shame, or being able to 340 00:15:39.559 --> 00:15:42.960 trust even your opinions on things. Because mum and dad 341 00:15:42.980 --> 00:15:46.629 are always right and They always know more than me. 342 00:15:47.149 --> 00:15:50.490 So it's not just a criticism on your homework or 343 00:15:50.509 --> 00:15:53.960 a criticism on the way you're dressing. It's about who 344 00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:56.200 you are as a human. And that's the difference between 345 00:15:56.600 --> 00:15:59.320 shame and guilt. So maybe if you haven't done your homework, 346 00:15:59.340 --> 00:16:01.419 you would feel bad about not doing your homework. But 347 00:16:01.460 --> 00:16:04.440 the shame is when it becomes I'm a bad person 348 00:16:04.519 --> 00:16:08.250 for not doing my homework. And largely, that's because you're 349 00:16:08.289 --> 00:16:11.870 not realizing the power dynamic between a caregiver and a 350 00:16:11.909 --> 00:16:14.970 child who still can't fully rely on themselves to live. 351 00:16:15.350 --> 00:16:17.990 So they're so reliant on you that they are so 352 00:16:18.049 --> 00:16:20.840 sensitive to what you say. So a lot of the time, 353 00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:23.220 it can be something as simple as if you were 354 00:16:23.299 --> 00:16:26.399 around a parent who was very critical, if you smashed 355 00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:28.700 a plate, for example, I'm using that example, because I'm 356 00:16:28.720 --> 00:16:31.620 a very clumsy person. And they made a big deal 357 00:16:31.669 --> 00:16:33.340 about it and was like, oh my God, how can 358 00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:34.059 you break that plate? 359 00:16:34.179 --> 00:16:34.559 All of that. 360 00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:37.559 The next time you make a simple mistake as an adult, 361 00:16:37.860 --> 00:16:39.519 what do you think's going through your mind? It's the 362 00:16:39.559 --> 00:16:41.340 voice of all the caregivers around you telling you how 363 00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:43.559 stupid you are, how clumsy you are. If you can't 364 00:16:43.600 --> 00:16:45.220 even hold a plate, how am I meant to trust 365 00:16:45.259 --> 00:16:48.700 you with X, Y, Z? What is a really pivotal 366 00:16:48.759 --> 00:16:52.340 change as you become an adult is understanding that your 367 00:16:52.419 --> 00:16:55.419 inner voice is not yours. It doesn't belong to you. 368 00:16:55.519 --> 00:16:58.429 It's someone else who taught you that. and therefore being 369 00:16:58.570 --> 00:17:01.230 able to tell the difference between a positive inner voice 370 00:17:01.289 --> 00:17:02.169 and a negative one. 371 00:17:02.549 --> 00:17:04.130 And how do you think we can kind of break 372 00:17:04.190 --> 00:17:08.250 that cycle of self-criticism, you know, actively in the everyday? 373 00:17:08.910 --> 00:17:10.690 So another way is that I think a lot of 374 00:17:10.710 --> 00:17:12.579 the time when you have an inner critic is that 375 00:17:12.660 --> 00:17:17.039 it's very loud and people tell themselves to stop. So 376 00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:18.960 it'll be like, oh, stop saying that, stop saying that, 377 00:17:19.019 --> 00:17:20.980 I need to focus, all of that. The more you 378 00:17:21.019 --> 00:17:24.140 try to stop it, the louder it tends to get 379 00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:27.980 because it almost engages with it and starts an argument. Instead, 380 00:17:28.059 --> 00:17:30.809 imagine a dial like on a stereo and like turning 381 00:17:30.849 --> 00:17:34.190 the dial down so it could be quieter. And most importantly, 382 00:17:34.289 --> 00:17:36.279 you don't have to believe it or listen to it. 383 00:17:36.609 --> 00:17:38.390 Just because it's going on in your head doesn't mean 384 00:17:38.430 --> 00:17:40.529 it's true. And I like to use the analogy. Can 385 00:17:40.549 --> 00:17:42.930 you imagine if your brain said something like your hair's blue? Well, 386 00:17:42.950 --> 00:17:45.410 your hair's not blue. My hair's not blue. I wouldn't 387 00:17:45.470 --> 00:17:48.579 think twice about it. But it's when it says something 388 00:17:48.630 --> 00:17:51.839 that taps into something we already believe in that we 389 00:17:51.880 --> 00:17:53.880 hook into it and we start a dialogue with it. 390 00:17:54.180 -->

00:17:56.119 But if we were able to let it go like 391 00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:59.339 a cloud in the sky, like just passing through, then 392 00:17:59.380 --> 00:18:01.349 we don't attach to it. We don't spend more time 393 00:18:01.420 --> 00:18:02.880 on it and we don't spend more energy on it. 394 00:18:03.250 --> 00:18:06.049 And I guess on the opposite side of self-criticism, how 395 00:18:06.109 --> 00:18:09.180 can we... I guess, practice self-love daily? 396 00:18:09.789 --> 00:18:12.349 So one of the things I love is called evidences. 397 00:18:12.410 --> 00:18:14.470 And it's three things. And at the moment, I'm doing 398 00:18:14.569 --> 00:18:17.750 three things I impressed myself with today. But you can 399 00:18:17.789 --> 00:18:20.829 do whatever your insecurities around. So three reasons why I 400 00:18:20.869 --> 00:18:23.950 loved my body today. Three reasons my body got me 401 00:18:23.990 --> 00:18:27.240 through my day. Three reasons why I was proud of myself. 402 00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:30.559 Whatever language resonates with you is what you should do 403 00:18:30.660 --> 00:18:32.319 every day. But you have to make it a habit. 404 00:18:32.339 --> 00:18:33.920 Because if you think about how many times in a 405 00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:36.640 day you think negatively of yourself... You have to be 406 00:18:36.680 --> 00:18:39.950 doing more to think positively about yourself to rewrite that. 407 00:18:40.150 --> 00:18:42.009 I think for me, one of the things that really 408 00:18:42.069 --> 00:18:45.309 helped was understanding that there are roughly 50 to 80,000 409 00:18:45.309 --> 00:18:47.910 thoughts in a day. So how many of those thoughts 410 00:18:47.950 --> 00:18:50.759 are completely irrelevant and which ones are you attaching to 411 00:18:50.799 --> 00:18:53.099 is a really key thing. And once I realized that 412 00:18:53.119 --> 00:18:55.579 my thoughts aren't facts, it gave me the ability to 413 00:18:55.640 --> 00:18:59.640 create distance between certain thoughts. So I probably do still 414 00:18:59.700 --> 00:19:01.720 have bad body image thoughts because I grew up in 415 00:19:01.779 --> 00:19:04.880 a world that is very critical of appearances. But if 416 00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:07.549 I have a thought like, your thighs are full of cellulite, 417 00:19:07.900 --> 00:19:09.289 I'd be like, oh, I need to write that email 418 00:19:09.809 --> 00:19:12.750 and just move on. It takes a millisecond. And then 419 00:19:12.829 --> 00:19:14.890 I'm on to the next thought because I don't put 420 00:19:14.970 --> 00:19:17.410 weight in it anymore. I'm like, who cares? Who cares 421 00:19:17.450 --> 00:19:19.750 what my thighs look like? My body isn't as important 422 00:19:19.789 --> 00:19:22.470 as what I have to do today. And it's going 423 00:19:22.490 --> 00:19:24.029 to get me there and it doesn't stop me. 424 00:19:24.170 --> 00:19:26.470 On that one specifically, if someone was having a particularly 425 00:19:26.509

--> 00:19:29.480 bad body image day, what would you suggest for them to, 426 00:19:29.559 --> 00:19:31.779 I guess, turn that day around in terms of that 427 00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:33.319 bad body image specifically? 428 00:19:33.779 --> 00:19:36.599 So for me, body confidence is quite a lofty concept. 429 00:19:36.740 --> 00:19:38.579 And so the end goal for me is that you 430 00:19:38.599 --> 00:19:40.960 spend less time and energy thinking about what you look 431 00:19:41.009 --> 00:19:43.089 like throughout your day. And that actually, I think, is 432 00:19:43.109 --> 00:19:45.970 the greatest negative of being insecure about your body, is 433 00:19:46.009 --> 00:19:48.529 that you don't leave the house without triple checking your outfit, 434 00:19:48.589 --> 00:19:51.740 changing a few times, re your makeup you're not focused 435 00:19:51.779 --> 00:19:53.759 in the job interview you have that day because you're 436 00:19:53.779 --> 00:19:56.740 thinking about what you look like right realizing what is 437 00:19:56.880 --> 00:19:58.839 more important than your body and I think a lot 438 00:19:58.859 --> 00:20:01.339 of the focus at the moment especially within body positivity 439 00:20:01.400 --> 00:20:03.740 is you are so beautiful I do believe everyone is 440 00:20:03.779 --> 00:20:05.700 beautiful and I believe anyone who you don't think is 441 00:20:05.720 --> 00:20:08.119 beautiful you've just been taught to believe that they are 442 00:20:08.180 --> 00:20:11.579 outside the beauty ideal yeah But at the same time, 443 00:20:11.819 --> 00:20:13.700 what you do with your body is more important than 444 00:20:13.740 --> 00:20:15.920 what it looks like. And I think ultimately coming back 445 00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:18.900 to my hospital experiences, that taught me that more than anything. 446 00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:22.259 I spent my entire adolescence years hating my body, hating 447 00:20:22.279 --> 00:20:25.000 what I look like. For the people listening who can't 448 00:20:25.039 --> 00:20:27.500 see right now, I have surgery scars all over my stomach. 449 00:20:27.559 --> 00:20:30.099 I'm half bald behind here. I have surgery scars on 450 00:20:30.140 --> 00:20:32.539 my ankles. I have one here that everyone confuses with 451 00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:35.119 the nipple. And so I grew up very insecure about 452 00:20:35.180 --> 00:20:37.079 what I look like. And it was only when I 453 00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:40.529 was about 15, I realized, The one grace of surgery 454 00:20:40.549 --> 00:20:43.230 scars is you can't do anything to change it. If 455 00:20:43.269 --> 00:20:45.200 I was insecure about my weight, I could have changed that. 456 00:20:45.299 --> 00:20:46.799 If I was insecure about my nose, I could have 457 00:20:46.819 --> 00:20:48.759 a plastic surgery. Well, am I going to get plastic 458 00:20:48.779 --> 00:20:51.019 surgery to remove surgery scars? Doesn't really make a lot 459 00:20:51.059 --> 00:20:54.450 of sense. And so I

had to accept it. And 460 00:20:54.529 --> 00:20:57.130 as soon as I accepted it, I actually started putting 461 00:20:57.150 --> 00:20:59.769 myself forward for leadership positions in the school. But I 462 00:20:59.849 --> 00:21:02.269 accepted I was ugly and I couldn't change it. But 463 00:21:02.329 --> 00:21:04.750 I could do so much more with my life. And 464 00:21:04.789 --> 00:21:07.250 because I had those two feelings in my body of, oh, 465 00:21:07.289 --> 00:21:09.289 I hate my body, but also I realize how short 466 00:21:09.309 --> 00:21:11.049 life is and I've got to make the most of life. 467 00:21:11.789 --> 00:21:15.009 I actually just threw myself into everything that wasn't appearance 468 00:21:15.049 --> 00:21:18.099 based or aesthetics based. And then over time, I learned 469 00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:20.079 to love the way I looked and accept the way 470 00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:22.700 I look. What came first is realizing I was more 471 00:21:22.740 --> 00:21:25.250 than a body rather than realizing I was beautiful. The 472 00:21:25.289 --> 00:21:28.990 realizing I was beautiful part came maybe eight years later. 473 00:21:29.009 --> 00:21:31.369 But in those eight years, I did so much with 474 00:21:31.410 --> 00:21:32.990 my life because I didn't let it stop me. 475 00:21:33.190 --> 00:21:36.119 The whole beauty myth thing, like it's a distraction sent 476 00:21:36.660 --> 00:21:40.859 to suppress and distract. And it sounds all like conspiracy theory. 477 00:21:40.940 --> 00:21:43.509 But actually, if you really think about it, it's like, Yeah, sure, 478 00:21:43.549 --> 00:21:45.660 it's better if we spend all of this time concentrating 479 00:21:45.700 --> 00:21:46.240 on our looks. 480 00:21:46.359 --> 00:21:48.299 And it might sound like a conspiracy theory, but I 481 00:21:48.339 --> 00:21:50.279 think most of the world can understand that money runs 482 00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:52.990 the world. The amount of money behind it, it makes sense. 483 00:21:53.230 --> 00:21:56.289 And you cannot profit off someone loving themselves. You can 484 00:21:56.349 --> 00:21:59.789 profit off someone hating themselves. and selling them cellulite products, 485 00:22:00.049 --> 00:22:04.099 and selling them new tanning products, and actually just thinking 486 00:22:04.180 --> 00:22:06.299 about how many hours in a week that a woman 487 00:22:06.539 --> 00:22:09.299 is spending on their manicure, their pedicure, their haircut, their 488 00:22:09.339 --> 00:22:13.099 tanning regime, their waxing, all of that, that men don't 489 00:22:13.160 --> 00:22:15.140 have to do, or even, I mean, this is just 490 00:22:15.220 --> 00:22:17.460 a joke, but I do tend to say it quite 491 00:22:17.480 --> 00:22:19.059 a lot, I don't wear heels, I've not worn heels 492 00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:21.509 in 10 years, and I say, I think it's purposely 493 00:22:21.569 --> 00:22:23.029 created to slow women. 494 00:22:22.869 --> 00:22:25.430 Down well I'm a very fast walker so I probably 495 00:22:25.470 --> 00:22:27.910 need heels to just like you know stop me a 496 00:22:27.910 --> 00:22:29.789 little bit so I can stop chasing everyone down the 497 00:22:29.809 --> 00:22:32.369 street and I think then there also comes the shame 498 00:22:32.869 --> 00:22:36.119 after that point when you still adhere to those beauty 499 00:22:36.140 --> 00:22:38.319 standards or attempt to fulfill them because I think it 500 00:22:38.380 --> 00:22:40.420 is such a natural I mean we're you know we're 501 00:22:40.460 --> 00:22:42.819 pack animals we want to we want to impress we 502 00:22:42.839 --> 00:22:44.779 want to feel good about ourselves we want to feel 503 00:22:45.230 --> 00:22:48.569 like we are doing well in in all aspects including 504 00:22:48.609 --> 00:22:50.609 how we look and I think that's really tough too 505 00:22:50.630 --> 00:22:52.990 because obviously that kind of plays into it and then 506 00:22:53.049 --> 00:22:54.750 you're very aware of the fact that you might be 507 00:22:54.769 --> 00:22:56.829 doing xyz for the male gaze like I would love 508 00:22:56.849 --> 00:22:58.130 to say that I do it all for the female 509 00:22:58.150 --> 00:23:00.470 gaze I don't like I don't think when you when 510 00:23:00.490 --> 00:23:02.670 it really comes down to it like there's it's so 511 00:23:02.710 --> 00:23:05.440 much more complex than that but then there comes like 512 00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:07.920 the guilt of also still doing the things it might 513 00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:10.359 be shaving it might be makeup it might be any 514 00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:13.059 of these different things So it's so layered as well. 515 00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:16.990 What's really strange is when you think you're about to die, everyone, 516 00:23:17.630 --> 00:23:20.089 especially in the movies, they have this reel of like 517 00:23:20.549 --> 00:23:22.589 all the big moments in your life. And actually that 518 00:23:22.710 --> 00:23:24.470 wasn't what was going through my head for six weeks. 519 00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:26.599 What was going through my head for six weeks was 520 00:23:26.660 --> 00:23:29.119 a memory where my friends had gone to dance class 521 00:23:29.240 --> 00:23:31.240 and I had said no because I didn't want to 522 00:23:31.259 --> 00:23:33.670 be the fat girl in dance class. And it's so 523 00:23:33.769 --> 00:23:37.670 small and it's so insignificant. But for some reason, I 524 00:23:37.890 --> 00:23:40.619 was like, what I would give right now to go 525 00:23:40.819 --> 00:23:42.700 to dance class, what I would give right now to 526 00:23:42.740 --> 00:23:46.359 see my friends. And after that, I made a promise 527 00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:49.630 that I was like, my body is doing its damnedest 528 00:23:49.690 --> 00:23:52.109 to try to keep me alive. The least I could do. 529 00:23:52.690 --> 00:23:55.670 is try to help it and support it. And I'm 530 00:23:55.750 --> 00:23:58.589 never gonna say no

to living my life anymore simply 531 00:23:58.630 --> 00:24:00.259 because of what I look like. And I think that 532 00:24:00.380 --> 00:24:03.759 actually is the biggest shift for body confidence is your 533 00:24:03.779 --> 00:24:06.859 body has no power over dictating what you do in 534 00:24:06.900 --> 00:24:09.319 your life if you decide you're gonna go do it anyway. 535 00:24:11.650 --> 00:24:14.349 This is David and John from the David McWilliams podcast 536 00:24:14.710 --> 00:24:17.269 brought to you by Monzo, Ireland's newest bank. 537 00:24:17.490 --> 00:24:20.009 Now we've mentioned more than once about the need for 538 00:24:20.049 --> 00:24:22.730 more choice in Irish banking. Well, now we have some. 539 00:24:23.140 --> 00:24:26.220 Monzo is a bank built for Ireland with Irish I-bands 540 00:24:26.259 --> 00:24:28.680 and a team here in Dublin. And there are no 541 00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:31.279 monthly fees. Get a free Monzo account for yourself and 542 00:24:31.319 --> 00:24:33.880 your kids. And if you run a business, open a 543 00:24:33.940 --> 00:24:36.960 free business bank account too if you're an eligible sole 544 00:24:36.980 --> 00:24:39.799 trader or limited company in Ireland. You can manage all 545 00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:43.109 your Monzo accounts on one app. Monzo have also been 546 00:24:43.150 --> 00:24:46.190 kind enough and clever enough to sponsor Kilkenomics in November, 547 00:24:46.390 --> 00:24:47.769 for which we are very grateful. 548 00:24:48.130 --> 00:24:50.890 A new era of banking is here. Sign up today 549 00:24:50.990 --> 00:24:52.529 by downloading the Monzo app. 550 00:24:52.869 --> 00:24:55.759 Monzo Bank Europe DAT, trading as Monzo, is regulated by 551 00:24:55.779 --> 00:24:58.079 the Central Bank of Ireland. Terms and conditions apply. 552 00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:00.180 ACAST recommends. 553 00:25:01.180 --> 00:25:02.099 Hi, I'm Ryan Tuberty. 554 00:25:02.180 --> 00:25:04.619 And for those who don't know, I love books and 555 00:25:04.779 --> 00:25:07.200 I love a great story. And on my podcast, The 556 00:25:07.240 --> 00:25:10.059 Bookshelf with Ryan Tuberty, I sit down with fascinating people 557 00:25:10.410 --> 00:25:11.990 And we talk about the books that have shaped their 558 00:25:12.029 --> 00:25:14.619 lives and the stories behind them. We talk about the 559 00:25:14.660 --> 00:25:16.779 book they loved as a child, the book that brings 560 00:25:16.839 --> 00:25:19.799 them joy, and the book that changed their life. Over 561 00:25:19.839 --> 00:25:23.259 the seasons, I've chatted to world leaders, cultural icons, sports stars, 562 00:25:23.700 --> 00:25:26.380 and some of my favorite authors. Well, season five is 563 00:25:26.420 --> 00:25:29.009 now available. So if you love books, if you love stories, 564 00:25:29.109 --> 00:25:31.450 and you love great conversation, come and join me on 565 00:25:31.470 --> 00:25:34.329 the bookshelf every Tuesday. Watch on YouTube or indeed listen 566 00:25:34.589 --> 00:25:35.650 wherever you get your podcasts. 567 00:25:36.250 --> 00:25:40.279 Acast is home to the world's best podcasts, including Red Room... 568 00:25:40.710 --> 00:25:43.410 Catch up with Louise McSharry and the one you're listening 569 00:25:43.430 --> 00:25:44.410 to right now. 570 00:25:49.190 --> 00:25:51.009 I want to talk about dating. I wondered if you 571 00:25:51.029 --> 00:25:53.210 could tell me a little bit about your kind of 572 00:25:53.369 --> 00:25:54.630 view on dating apps. 573 00:25:54.950 --> 00:25:57.529 Yeah, so for years, I actually didn't talk about my 574 00:25:57.569 --> 00:26:00.079 love life online. Like I would talk about life coaching 575 00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:02.130 and body image and all of the things. And love 576 00:26:02.150 --> 00:26:04.599 life was the one thing I didn't mention. And then 577 00:26:05.039 --> 00:26:06.579 I kind of had a moment where I was a 578 00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:09.119 bit frustrated with the fact that anytime I would sit 579 00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:11.910 on a panel... the only questions around dating that I 580 00:26:11.930 --> 00:26:15.410 would be asked were negative assumptions. So either around me 581 00:26:15.450 --> 00:26:18.779 being plus size or mixed race and being fetishized or 582 00:26:18.819 --> 00:26:20.339 the fact that I have a chronic illness and how 583 00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:22.960 difficult that is to date. And then the other people 584 00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:26.619 on my panel would be asked, oh, like the positive experience, 585 00:26:26.660 --> 00:26:28.079 the good stories. And I was like, okay, but you 586 00:26:28.119 --> 00:26:29.849 didn't ask me that question. So I can't tell you 587 00:26:29.869 --> 00:26:31.430 my good story. Do not assume that I could have had... 588 00:26:31.789 --> 00:26:35.430 yeah but the world does that doesn't it the world 589 00:26:35.509 --> 00:26:38.069 goes like you're plus size you're mixed race you're half 590 00:26:38.130 --> 00:26:40.269 bald you're you've got a chronic illness you're gonna have 591 00:26:40.289 --> 00:26:42.609 a tough time dating that's gonna limit your dating pool 592 00:26:43.009 --> 00:26:45.519 but no one ever stopped to actually ask me do 593 00:26:45.630 --> 00:26:48.460 I like them back and so it was this moment 594 00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:50.099 where I was like well I do have a great 595 00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:52.079 love life I have a great dating life I was 596 00:26:52.119 --> 00:26:54.720 single for eight years and I went on so many 597 00:26:54.759 --> 00:26:58.180 dates and had the best time and I was like, 598 00:26:58.240 --> 00:27:00.640 I want to talk about it just if only for 599 00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:03.619 the only reason that it's positive representation that you can 600 00:27:03.740 --> 00:27:06.500 look like me, i.e. I do think I'm beautiful, but 601 00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:09.380 outside of the beauty ideal and have an amazing love life. 602 00:27:09.940

--> 00:27:12.119 That's kind of what led to my book, The Selfish Romantic, 603 00:27:12.180 --> 00:27:15.049 was that I was like, it's proof that actually this 604 00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:18.250 idea that the way you look limits your dating pool. Well, 605 00:27:18.369 --> 00:27:20.589 if you're into festivals, that also limits your dating pool. 606 00:27:20.670 --> 00:27:22.230 I don't want to date someone who goes to festivals. 607 00:27:22.609 --> 00:27:24.710 If you're vegan, that limits your dating pool. I'm a 608 00:27:24.970 --> 00:27:27.490 foodie and I like trying all kinds of restaurants. There 609 00:27:27.509 --> 00:27:29.670 are so many other elements that limit your data pool, 610 00:27:29.799 --> 00:27:33.920 but the danger with saying something like around someone's appearance 611 00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:36.579 that is a permanence that they can't change. is people 612 00:27:36.640 --> 00:27:39.460 believe it. And so it was starting to look at 613 00:27:39.500 --> 00:27:42.509 my love life a different way because going into dating 614 00:27:42.569 --> 00:27:46.049 when I was younger with that mentality, especially because when 615 00:27:46.130 --> 00:27:49.170 I started dating was really the start of online dating. 616 00:27:49.390 --> 00:27:52.230 The danger with that was that you have this mentality 617 00:27:52.269 --> 00:27:54.490 that beggars can't be choosers, that you've got to settle 618 00:27:54.559 --> 00:27:57.720 with whoever lands in your lap. And unfortunately, most of 619 00:27:57.759 --> 00:28:02.019 the time that leads to really negative situations and actually 620 00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:04.779 more times than not emotionally abusive situations. Because if you're 621 00:28:04.819 --> 00:28:08.319 in a situation where you will take however they behave 622 00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:12.190 or however they treat you, people tend to keep going 623 00:28:12.250 --> 00:28:15.269 down that path. And you don't believe you can find 624 00:28:15.309 --> 00:28:17.789 better because you've been told that the weight you are 625 00:28:17.829 --> 00:28:19.730 means you can't find someone else. So you need to 626 00:28:19.769 --> 00:28:22.930 stick with your only option. And what's even more insidious 627 00:28:22.970 --> 00:28:25.039 than that is that they are a saint for loving 628 00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:27.299 you at your size. They are a saint for loving 629 00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:29.779 you especially through your chronic illness, that you are a 630 00:28:29.819 --> 00:28:32.200 burden if you have a chronic illness. And I'm now 631 00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:34.559 in a relationship and my boyfriend now still gets that 632 00:28:34.579 --> 00:28:40.970 to the day. Wow, you go with Michelle to her MRIs? Like, yeah, sorry. 633 00:28:41.509 --> 00:28:43.769 So did you think I would be in a two 634 00:28:43.809 --> 00:28:46.069 year relationship with a guy who didn't come with me 635 00:28:46.109 --> 00:28:49.660 to the hospital? It's a really messed up message that 636 00:28:50.470 --> 00:28:53.130 Because I have a chronic illness, it's a one-way love. 637 00:28:53.509 --> 00:28:56.339 And it's not. Everyone just has a different issue, whether 638 00:28:56.390 --> 00:28:57.019 it's you going through. 639 00:28:57.039 --> 00:28:58.059 And also, everything is relative. 640 00:28:58.299 --> 00:29:01.680 Exactly. And also, it shouldn't feel like a big deal 641 00:29:01.779 --> 00:29:05.150 if you love the person. And I think framing a 642 00:29:05.269 --> 00:29:08.049 lot of these, what people like to say minorities, but 643 00:29:08.069 --> 00:29:10.069 if you actually put them together, it is the majority. 644 00:29:10.190 --> 00:29:13.140 Everyone is going through something. All of these things as 645 00:29:13.960 --> 00:29:17.039 inconveniences or things that are going to make people want 646 00:29:17.059 --> 00:29:20.299 to date you less is just such a horrible and 647 00:29:20.710 --> 00:29:24.289 frankly mean message and I think that's where my passion 648 00:29:24.329 --> 00:29:26.700 comes from talking about online dating because I know it's 649 00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:30.640 boring being on dating apps but my comparison is when 650 00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:32.859 people run a business no one tells you how much 651 00:29:32.900 --> 00:29:35.630 they love sending invoices they love getting paid so you 652 00:29:35.650 --> 00:29:37.970 send the invoice if you want to date you want 653 00:29:37.990 --> 00:29:39.569 to go on a date you want to love dating 654 00:29:39.670 --> 00:29:41.799 you've got to go on the dating app. That's the 655 00:29:42.440 --> 00:29:44.980 admin side of it. I love dating apps. If they 656 00:29:45.019 --> 00:29:47.000 didn't work, no one would go on them. I have 657 00:29:47.079 --> 00:29:50.299 never met more interesting people than I have on dating apps. 658 00:29:50.599 --> 00:29:52.769 And yes, there are some dud dates. If you date enough, 659 00:29:52.789 --> 00:29:55.230 you're going to get ghosted. It's all a part of it. 660 00:29:55.289 --> 00:29:57.650 But I think the key is to not take it personally. 661 00:29:58.210 --> 00:30:00.349 And one of the first tips I give anyone who's 662 00:30:00.390 --> 00:30:03.950 going out there before you even start dating is write 663 00:30:03.950 --> 00:30:06.049 100 reasons why someone would want to date you. you 664 00:30:06.069 --> 00:30:08.150 need to know what you bring to the table so 665 00:30:08.190 --> 00:30:10.210 that someone else can't walk in the room and tell 666 00:30:10.259 --> 00:30:12.099 you who you are because you need to know who 667 00:30:12.119 --> 00:30:14.779 you are exactly and if someone walked into my life 668 00:30:14.859 --> 00:30:17.400 and treated me like I wasn't good enough I would 669 00:30:17.420 --> 00:30:19.160 be able to go off the top of my head 670 00:30:19.619 --> 00:30:21.559 well I have this and I do this and I'm 671 00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:24.160 this kind of

person and that's why I am a 672 00:30:24.220 --> 00:30:26.079 valuable person today and if you're not going to treat 673 00:30:26.119 --> 00:30:27.839 me the way I deserve then I'm going to go 674 00:30:27.880 --> 00:30:29.180 find that from someone else. 675 00:30:29.259 --> 00:30:32.019 The chances that you are going to meet someone and 676 00:30:32.059 --> 00:30:34.339 you actually be a good match are lower than the 677 00:30:34.380 --> 00:30:37.039 other way around And I think we have this perception 678 00:30:37.059 --> 00:30:39.109 that it's going to be, you know, that it's more 679 00:30:39.150 --> 00:30:40.809 likely that you do meet someone that you get on 680 00:30:40.829 --> 00:30:42.670 with or whatever it might be. Like, why would that 681 00:30:42.690 --> 00:30:45.549 be the case? Like that makes absolutely zero sense. And 682 00:30:45.609 --> 00:30:48.089 actually it's a, almost like a, you know, as you say, 683 00:30:48.109 --> 00:30:51.390 the a hundred reasons why someone should date you, they 684 00:30:51.430 --> 00:30:53.430 also have a hundred reasons why someone should date them. 685 00:30:53.940 --> 00:30:56.279 Perfect if those also align and in terms of like 686 00:30:56.339 --> 00:30:58.380 what you want from each other, the chances of that 687 00:30:58.400 --> 00:31:02.000 happening are slimmer than we give credit for when we're 688 00:31:02.059 --> 00:31:04.579 upset that one date didn't work, if that makes sense. 689 00:31:05.029 --> 00:31:06.529 If you knew you had to go on nine dates 690 00:31:06.569 --> 00:31:09.089 to meet that 10th person, it was going to be great. 691 00:31:09.130 --> 00:31:10.730 You would be happy with each one of those nine 692 00:31:10.750 --> 00:31:11.960 going wrong because you're getting closer. 693 00:31:12.359 --> 00:31:14.299 Yeah. And also one of the pieces of the puzzle 694 00:31:14.380 --> 00:31:16.500 is that when you go on a good first date 695 00:31:16.579 --> 00:31:18.119 and then they don't call you back, you see that 696 00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:20.730 as a failure. So it's what you're describing as failure 697 00:31:20.769 --> 00:31:23.730 that's creating this mentality in your head. But if you 698 00:31:23.809 --> 00:31:26.269 had a really nice evening out, maybe you've tried a 699 00:31:26.309 --> 00:31:28.910 new restaurant together. How is that a failure? You've learned 700 00:31:28.970 --> 00:31:31.019 something new about your dating life. And so I think 701 00:31:31.079 --> 00:31:33.859 lowering the bar of what's considered a failure, but also 702 00:31:33.900 --> 00:31:37.619 just walking into the dates with natural curiosity where you 703 00:31:37.660 --> 00:31:39.799 don't have to love the person. You don't have to 704 00:31:39.940 --> 00:31:42.829 like the person. Just be curious about the person in 705 00:31:42.849 --> 00:31:45.069 front of you. And I genuinely believe that you can 706 00:31:45.150 --> 00:31:48.690 learn from every single person you interact with, but you 707 00:31:48.730 --> 00:31:51.549 have to be curious enough to actually ask the questions 708 00:31:51.569 --> 00:31:53.569 and A lot of the time when people go, oh, 709 00:31:53.650 --> 00:31:56.089 I want to date more, I want to get more matches, 710 00:31:56.349 --> 00:31:59.700 the first thing they do is think of an aesthetic change. Oh, 711 00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:02.119 this is why I need to wear more makeup. This 712 00:32:02.180 --> 00:32:04.200 is why I need to get a new outfit. No 713 00:32:04.259 --> 00:32:07.220 one actually thinks about the personal development that's required to 714 00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:10.759 find a romantic match. Thinking about the sexual element, the 715 00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:14.750 romantic element, adding that onto how hard it is to 716 00:32:14.829 --> 00:32:17.210 find a friend you can live with and travel with, 717 00:32:17.849 --> 00:32:20.490 that's how hard it is to find a romantic partner. Mm-hmm. 718 00:32:20.990 --> 00:32:23.529 What advice would you give someone in terms of keeping 719 00:32:23.609 --> 00:32:24.089 on going? 720 00:32:24.730 --> 00:32:26.650 I would actually tell you not to. I didn't date 721 00:32:26.690 --> 00:32:29.170 for three years in my single period. Eight years of 722 00:32:29.210 --> 00:32:30.829 being single, I didn't go on a date for three years. 723 00:32:30.869 --> 00:32:33.170 I was very focused on my career. I realised the 724 00:32:33.309 --> 00:32:36.029 only reason I was dating is because I was feeling 725 00:32:36.069 --> 00:32:38.009 that pressure when people asked me if I'd been on 726 00:32:38.049 --> 00:32:41.240 a date to actually have an answer. And you need 727 00:32:41.259 --> 00:32:45.380 to actually feel positive, optimistic and curious about dates. Otherwise, 728 00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:48.700 don't bother. Give yourself permission to take a break, but also... 729 00:32:48.970 --> 00:32:52.130 You're allowed to feel that disappointment. So the piece around 730 00:32:52.309 --> 00:32:54.589 understanding how hard it is to find a romantic match 731 00:32:54.670 --> 00:32:57.609 is important because it's also reframing what a lot of 732 00:32:57.650 --> 00:33:00.789 people see as rejection as not rejection. So if someone 733 00:33:00.829 --> 00:33:02.410 matches you and then you don't end up going on 734 00:33:02.430 --> 00:33:04.450 the date, you don't have to see that as rejection 735 00:33:04.509 --> 00:33:07.930 because they don't even know you. That's a stranger. So 736 00:33:08.099 --> 00:33:10.160 reduce the amount of rejection that's coming into your life. 737 00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:12.619 There have been days I have cried over a guy 738 00:33:12.740 --> 00:33:15.789 I have never met. Because I was excited for the date. 739 00:33:15.849 --> 00:33:18.430 Yeah, it's the potential. Yeah, it's the potential. 740 00:33:18.730 --> 00:33:22.190 The only person you're hurting by pretending those feelings don't 741 00:33:22.230 --> 00:33:25.589

exist is yourself. And by denying those feelings exist, it 742 00:33:25.630 --> 00:33:28.210 doesn't make the feelings go away. It just makes it worse. 743 00:33:28.730 --> 00:33:32.400 And that's when resentment around dating builds up. And actually 744 00:33:32.539 --> 00:33:35.140 comfort yourself in the same compassionate way you would do 745 00:33:35.180 --> 00:33:38.079 to a child where you would say, hey, this is okay. Look, 746 00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:40.880 I know you were really excited. It's okay to feel 747 00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:44.369 that heartbreak in You'll feel okay tomorrow. And then you 748 00:33:44.410 --> 00:33:45.369 can go on another date. 749 00:33:46.029 --> 00:33:48.329 What advice would you give to someone who's struggling with 750 00:33:48.349 --> 00:33:52.599 their self-worth in general and is also actively dating and 751 00:33:52.660 --> 00:33:54.980 finds those two things hard to balance? Because obviously you 752 00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:57.759 do face more rejection than you probably would otherwise when 753 00:33:57.779 --> 00:33:59.819 you're putting yourself in front of strangers. Like you'd feel 754 00:33:59.839 --> 00:34:01.400 the same if you were trying to be friends with everyone. 755 00:34:01.970 --> 00:34:05.410 Everyone dates dickheads. Everyone dates people who treat them awfully. 756 00:34:05.750 --> 00:34:08.409 The trick is to get rid of them faster and 757 00:34:08.489 --> 00:34:10.929 to know that you don't deserve to be treated that way. 758 00:34:11.309 --> 00:34:14.469 So having that piece of self-worth and knowing what your 759 00:34:14.510 --> 00:34:17.579 boundaries are and actually being able to stand up for yourself. 760 00:34:17.800 --> 00:34:20.119 Boundaries are one of those things that people think, especially 761 00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:22.199 in dating, oh, we're not serious enough for me to 762 00:34:22.219 --> 00:34:25.559 set my boundaries. Boundaries are there with everyone and you 763 00:34:25.599 --> 00:34:28.400 should be setting it from the get-go. So the first date, 764 00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:30.599 they plan a date that's five minutes around from their 765 00:34:30.619 --> 00:34:33.019 house and and two hours away from you hey no 766 00:34:33.059 --> 00:34:34.780 unfortunately that's not going to work for me let's find 767 00:34:34.820 --> 00:34:37.329 somewhere somewhere in the middle if they text you two 768 00:34:37.349 --> 00:34:40.150 o'clock in the morning from the get-go hey this is 769 00:34:40.190 --> 00:34:41.989 not an appropriate time to text I'll reply to you 770 00:34:42.010 --> 00:34:45.210 when I finish work tomorrow you actually setting those boundaries 771 00:34:45.349 --> 00:34:48.179 of what's convenient for you what works for you because 772 00:34:48.260 --> 00:34:50.699 why are you putting them as a priority in your 773 00:34:50.739 --> 00:34:54.420 schedule when again they're still a stranger and they haven't earned. 774 00:34:54.320 --> 00:34:56.519 That right so how would you recommend someone sets boundaries 775 00:34:56.539 --> 00:34:57.460 when they're dating. 776 00:34:57.889 --> 00:35:00.570 So it's saying those small things, starting with where they 777 00:35:00.590 --> 00:35:04.829 choose the restaurant, how they reply. I remember with my boyfriend, 778 00:35:04.909 --> 00:35:07.260 the second day we were texting, he texted me at 779 00:35:07.300 --> 00:35:09.139 like 10 o'clock in the morning. I'm too busy during 780 00:35:09.159 --> 00:35:12.019 the workday to text. And so I replied to him 781 00:35:12.059 --> 00:35:14.400 at six o'clock and was like, hey, I don't text 782 00:35:14.420 --> 00:35:16.480 during the workday, but feel free to text me and 783 00:35:16.500 --> 00:35:19.079 I'll reply as soon as I'm off work. And so 784 00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:22.329 I set that boundary. Now, over time, he earned his trust. 785 00:35:22.389 --> 00:35:24.809 He earned my respect. And I did reply to him 786 00:35:24.829 --> 00:35:28.039 during working hours. But that took a few months. And 787 00:35:28.380 --> 00:35:30.860 if he turned up late or if I found he 788 00:35:30.889 --> 00:35:33.639 was disrespecting my time, I would communicate that. I think 789 00:35:33.719 --> 00:35:37.969 it's that difference between when you feel something, you thinking, oh, 790 00:35:38.030 --> 00:35:39.969 if I stay quiet about this, I will be more 791 00:35:40.010 --> 00:35:43.530 dateable and they'll like me more. And actually realizing if 792 00:35:43.590 --> 00:35:46.630 you show them that in the beginning, then you'll know 793 00:35:46.750 --> 00:35:49.590 sooner rather than later whether they are the right person 794 00:35:49.630 --> 00:35:49.949 for you. 795 00:35:50.230 --> 00:35:52.570 We are definitely taught to be the cool girl. Like 796 00:35:52.610 --> 00:35:55.730 we're always taught to be as cool and chilled as 797 00:35:55.769 --> 00:35:58.829 possible and to let as much slide because that's more 798 00:35:58.889 --> 00:36:02.690 dateable not only is it harmful it's also a myth 799 00:36:02.869 --> 00:36:07.030 I spent like definitely over 10 years pretending to be 800 00:36:07.070 --> 00:36:08.780 the cool girl or pretending to be fine with things 801 00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:11.880 that I was actually bulldozing my boundaries yeah and actually 802 00:36:11.900 --> 00:36:14.300 then just feeling like well that's fine I'm basically doing 803 00:36:14.340 --> 00:36:17.219 my time to be more dateable and actually just realizing 804 00:36:17.280 --> 00:36:20.019 that not only is it entirely inappropriate not to set 805 00:36:20.059 --> 00:36:23.559 your own boundaries because you're basically disrespecting yourself It's also 806 00:36:23.659 --> 00:36:26.099 untrue because you make yourself harder to date because you're 807 00:36:26.159 --> 00:36:29.300 not clarifying exactly what is within your boundaries. If it's 808 00:36:29.340 --> 00:36:30.820 not going to work out, it's not going to work

out. 809 00:36:30.920 --> 00:36:33.650 You'd rather know sooner rather than later. And as women, 810 00:36:33.690 --> 00:36:35.210 we are raised to be the cool girl. 811 00:36:36.300 --> 00:36:38.760 And because if you don't behave that way, you will 812 00:36:38.820 --> 00:36:42.719 be stigmatized in society using words like, she's really harsh. 813 00:36:43.019 --> 00:36:46.159 In the workplace, she's really difficult. This idea that I 814 00:36:46.300 --> 00:36:49.539 was always taught, oh, men don't like opinionated women. 815 00:36:49.559 --> 00:36:50.760 Yeah, or like difficult women. 816 00:36:51.079 --> 00:36:53.820 Yeah, and so, but... Like, oh, that's me out the window. 817 00:36:53.940 --> 00:36:56.679 But she does them such an injustice. Men are not 818 00:36:56.760 --> 00:37:00.110 a monolith. There are men who won't like opinionated women. 819 00:37:00.320 --> 00:37:01.949 But how am I going to find a man who 820 00:37:02.010 --> 00:37:05.210 likes an opinionated woman if I stop being an opinionated woman? 821 00:37:05.670 --> 00:37:08.690 So it is that thing where you have to understand 822 00:37:08.769 --> 00:37:11.920 that if they disappear because you've set a boundary, then 823 00:37:11.980 --> 00:37:15.559 that's a good thing. And actually, you want those boundaries 824 00:37:15.639 --> 00:37:19.409 from the get-go because... What's worse is people have this 825 00:37:19.510 --> 00:37:22.829 idea of I'm going to be this easy breezy, cool, 826 00:37:22.909 --> 00:37:25.429 low maintenance girl and then I'm going to hook them 827 00:37:25.690 --> 00:37:28.519 with a relationship and then the mask will drop and 828 00:37:28.539 --> 00:37:31.199 I'll show them all my boundaries. Except you've now set 829 00:37:31.239 --> 00:37:34.400 a precedent for a relationship without boundaries and that person 830 00:37:34.449 --> 00:37:37.329 is now waking up going... who the hell is this person? 831 00:37:37.409 --> 00:37:38.469 I've never met them. 832 00:37:38.650 --> 00:37:39.130 Yeah. 833 00:37:39.550 --> 00:37:41.670 And so I would even go as far as to 834 00:37:41.710 --> 00:37:44.250 say that people pleasing can be quite manipulative. If you 835 00:37:44.269 --> 00:37:47.630 look at the definition of manipulation, it is the definition 836 00:37:47.969 --> 00:37:51.650 of changing yourself in order to get an outcome. And 837 00:37:51.690 --> 00:37:53.800 that's what you're doing. You're trying to get a relationship 838 00:37:53.880 --> 00:37:56.699 regardless of who you are or how you have to be. 839 00:37:56.780 --> 00:37:59.519 You are going to do that in order to get results. 840 00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:03.869 That hook, that hook, that relationship in when rather I 841 00:38:03.909 --> 00:38:06.630 know on a first date that actually me going, hey, 842 00:38:06.670 --> 00:38:09.019 it's unacceptable that you were late for late for an hour. 843 00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:11.019 I left 20 minutes ago. But if you want to 844 00:38:11.059 --> 00:38:13.320 go on a date again, then you need to book it. 845 00:38:13.719 --> 00:38:15.820 Ensure that you are on time and I'll meet you there. 846 00:38:16.119 --> 00:38:19.369 It's realizing that actually all of these things which people 847 00:38:19.429 --> 00:38:21.929 tell you make you difficult to date aren't a big 848 00:38:21.989 --> 00:38:24.929 deal to the right person. But the reason why women 849 00:38:24.949 --> 00:38:28.110 have been trained to communicate indirectly is because when we 850 00:38:28.150 --> 00:38:31.550 communicate directly, we're called all those names. So what happens 851 00:38:31.610 --> 00:38:34.099 instead is we have this stereotype of women gossiping behind 852 00:38:34.139 --> 00:38:37.099 someone's back. or saying something in a passive aggressive tone 853 00:38:37.579 --> 00:38:40.239 or the stereotype of a mum who's loaded the dishwasher 854 00:38:40.260 --> 00:38:42.699 for the 10th time that day and gone fine no 855 00:38:42.760 --> 00:38:45.409 one's going to help me passive aggressively because she's not 856 00:38:45.489 --> 00:38:48.949 felt she could actually communicate the boundary of hey this 857 00:38:49.010 --> 00:38:52.650 is the communal dishwasher everyone needs to be pitching in 858 00:38:53.030 --> 00:38:55.849 so i will not be up unloading the dishwasher anymore 859 00:38:56.159 --> 00:38:59.179 And you all can sort out a schedule. And setting 860 00:38:59.219 --> 00:39:03.739 that boundary is direct communication. It's not passive-aggressive. But this 861 00:39:03.800 --> 00:39:06.599 is why we focus too much on women are bitchy, 862 00:39:06.780 --> 00:39:09.280 women are passive-aggressive, but no one's actually focusing on why 863 00:39:09.320 --> 00:39:11.530 they feel like they can't communicate the other way. And 864 00:39:11.670 --> 00:39:14.050 one of the best gifts of boundaries is that it 865 00:39:14.110 --> 00:39:16.309 simplifies your life. I do not spend my time and 866 00:39:16.389 --> 00:39:18.489 energy now wondering whether my friends are angry with me. 867 00:39:18.829 --> 00:39:20.750 because I know they have the confidence to be able 868 00:39:20.789 --> 00:39:22.380 to speak to me and tell me if they're angry, 869 00:39:22.659 --> 00:39:25.340 because I tell them when I'm angry. And I don't 870 00:39:25.400 --> 00:39:27.690 have to question whether I've annoyed them or that comment 871 00:39:27.730 --> 00:39:31.099 was a little bit off. But that comes from... me 872 00:39:31.179 --> 00:39:33.960 having my boundaries and therefore they feel the permission to 873 00:39:34.019 --> 00:39:36.880 have theirs. The biggest hurdle I have when setting boundaries 874 00:39:37.260 --> 00:39:39.360 was word for word, how do I actually put that 875 00:39:39.400 --> 00:39:41.579 into a sentence? Especially in dating, because I was the 876 00:39:41.599 --> 00:39:43.900 same as you. Dating was the last area where my 877 00:39:43.960 --> 00:39:46.139 boundaries came into place.

Like I had boundaries in all 878 00:39:46.159 --> 00:39:48.159 the other parts. There was definitely parts of the internet 879 00:39:48.179 --> 00:39:50.030 still calling me queen of boundaries. And I was like, 880 00:39:50.090 --> 00:39:51.590 not really in my life. You were like, whoa, I'm 881 00:39:51.630 --> 00:39:54.130 being walked all over over here. I was like, I 882 00:39:54.170 --> 00:39:56.389 didn't really set my boundary on the last date. But 883 00:39:56.510 --> 00:39:58.329 it was the last area that came. And it was 884 00:39:58.369 --> 00:40:01.110 me sitting with my own life coach and going, how 885 00:40:01.190 --> 00:40:03.190 do I say that? And her saying, and this is 886 00:40:03.210 --> 00:40:06.579 going to sound so silly, but she said, This doesn't 887 00:40:06.679 --> 00:40:09.719 work for me. And I was like, you can't say that. 888 00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:12.179 And I was so scared to say that simple sentence. 889 00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:15.679 It's one of my favorite sentences now. Also saying communication 890 00:40:15.719 --> 00:40:18.590 is really important to me. And if that isn't within 891 00:40:18.639 --> 00:40:21.409 our relationship, then this is not going to work. Also, 892 00:40:21.789 --> 00:40:24.230 it is having that thing where you're willing to say 893 00:40:24.269 --> 00:40:26.849 goodbye to something that isn't working. And if they can't 894 00:40:26.889 --> 00:40:29.789 communicate in the early stages of relationship, the likelihood is 895 00:40:30.150 --> 00:40:33.309 they can't communicate in the later stages. I'm not a 896 00:40:33.349 --> 00:40:36.949 big red flag and run person but I do believe 897 00:40:37.139 --> 00:40:39.219 you give someone a warning you set a boundary you 898 00:40:39.260 --> 00:40:42.079 reinforce the boundary in case the boundary is broken and 899 00:40:42.199 --> 00:40:44.679 then if they're repeating that behavior and there is no 900 00:40:44.739 --> 00:40:47.760 behavior change you need to listen to the evidence not 901 00:40:47.800 --> 00:40:50.670 the words they're saying one day I posted about how 902 00:40:50.829 --> 00:40:52.849 my boyfriend always makes me a cup of tea I 903 00:40:52.989 --> 00:40:54.369 can't remember the last time I made a cup of 904 00:40:54.389 --> 00:40:56.730 tea And I said, every time he makes a cup 905 00:40:56.750 --> 00:40:59.389 of tea, I say thank you. And the whole comment 906 00:40:59.409 --> 00:41:03.329 section is, the bar is so low. Like, that's bare minimum. 907 00:41:03.389 --> 00:41:05.190 You can't even find yourself a guy who makes you 908 00:41:05.210 --> 00:41:07.389 a cup of tea. Sorry, but if you take that 909 00:41:07.449 --> 00:41:10.369 small action for granted, you will take the rest of 910 00:41:10.389 --> 00:41:12.889 the relationship for granted. And that's how you lead to 911 00:41:12.909 --> 00:41:15.719 a long-term relationship where the most comments you make to 912 00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:19.030 each other are criticism and not appreciation. It is very 913 00:41:19.380 --> 00:41:21.619 easy to forget about the small cup of tea that 914 00:41:21.659 --> 00:41:25.059 a guy makes. But actually, day to day, the impact 915 00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:28.800 of that on a healthy relationship is such a positive. 916 00:41:28.820 --> 00:41:30.579 Oh yeah, you should absolutely be saying thank you if 917 00:41:30.679 --> 00:41:31.909 anyone does anything for you. 918 00:41:32.010 --> 00:41:35.070 And I do think that when we diminish these bare 919 00:41:35.110 --> 00:41:37.389 minimum things, it's like, well, if it was such a 920 00:41:37.429 --> 00:41:40.300 bare minimum, then everyone wouldn't be talking about it. 921 00:41:40.309 --> 00:41:41.389 Right, why are we all struggling with it? 922 00:41:41.429 --> 00:41:41.909 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 923 00:41:41.929 --> 00:41:44.829 And I just think, There are some of these love 924 00:41:44.869 --> 00:41:47.590 life things, especially online, that have started being toxic, which 925 00:41:47.659 --> 00:41:49.480 is why I said I'm not pro red flags, because 926 00:41:49.519 --> 00:41:52.599 it's this mentality that like, Red flag, break up with them. 927 00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:56.599 How about red flag, communicate that you didn't like that behavior. 928 00:41:56.860 --> 00:42:00.010 You reinforce that behavior when they break that boundary, which 929 00:42:00.170 --> 00:42:02.929 usually people do at least once because they aren't clear 930 00:42:03.050 --> 00:42:06.050 on what the boundary specifically is. And then if the 931 00:42:06.070 --> 00:42:09.820 behavior continues, then break up. But a lot of the time, 932 00:42:09.860 --> 00:42:12.800 this fear around bare minimum, this fear around red flags 933 00:42:12.820 --> 00:42:17.280 is is actually someone not being, that person who's saying it, 934 00:42:17.719 --> 00:42:21.460 having a fear around not making themselves vulnerable enough to 935 00:42:21.519 --> 00:42:24.900 have the hard conversation. And I think that's the point 936 00:42:24.920 --> 00:42:27.550 that you hit on, is that with your partner, you 937 00:42:27.610 --> 00:42:31.110 can have those hard conversations, but it's not just a conversation. 938 00:42:31.469 --> 00:42:33.650 It's the behavior change after. And it's the same thing 939 00:42:33.670 --> 00:42:35.909 with my boyfriend. It was the first relationship. Where I 940 00:42:35.969 --> 00:42:37.679 didn't have to repeat myself twice. 941 00:42:37.780 --> 00:42:38.039 Right. 942 00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:41.059 And it's such an important thing. And it's not bare minimum. 943 00:42:41.099 --> 00:42:42.099 It's not a low bar. 944 00:42:42.119 --> 00:42:42.199 Yeah. 945 00:42:42.260 --> 00:42:46.420 Because most people are just listening. Yeah. To get the 946 00:42:46.460 --> 00:42:50.719 conversation over with. It then leads to people getting to relationships. 947 00:42:50.889 --> 00:42:53.670 And dismissing the small things. And actually I think

when 948 00:42:53.710 --> 00:42:56.829 it comes to long term relationships. the small things matter. 949 00:42:57.369 --> 00:43:01.730 And those small things cannot be dismissed continuously because then 950 00:43:01.829 --> 00:43:04.610 the thing that will be emphasized is the moments where 951 00:43:04.650 --> 00:43:07.309 you're criticizing each other or you're pointing out the one 952 00:43:07.329 --> 00:43:09.329 thing they do wrong rather than the one thing they 953 00:43:09.429 --> 00:43:11.849 do right. If you want someone to do more of 954 00:43:11.949 --> 00:43:14.969 what you already like, you compliment what they do right, 955 00:43:15.329 --> 00:43:17.369 not just the thing that you want them to change. 956 00:43:17.469 --> 00:43:19.230 What I do think is bare minimum while we're on 957 00:43:19.250 --> 00:43:22.309 the topic is the amount of reels I've seen on 958 00:43:22.349 --> 00:43:25.340 my feed at the moment of people being like, When 959 00:43:25.380 --> 00:43:27.380 your husband looks after the baby for the morning. 960 00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:28.480 Oh, that. 961 00:43:28.820 --> 00:43:32.960 Yeah, well, that's just misogyny. That, absolutely. 962 00:43:33.039 --> 00:43:35.900 Or like, when the husband's babysitting. And it's like, what? 963 00:43:36.460 --> 00:43:39.139 You can't babysit your own child. I totally agree with 964 00:43:39.199 --> 00:43:40.079 you on that. 965 00:43:40.119 --> 00:43:41.739 I just keep seeing them pop up. And I saw 966 00:43:41.800 --> 00:43:43.860 one the other day being like, when you don't have 967 00:43:43.909 --> 00:43:46.809 to write your husband a manual for when he's looking 968 00:43:46.889 --> 00:43:49.989 after your child. And I was like, a manual? 969 00:43:50.030 --> 00:43:50.869 I think there is a difference. 970 00:43:50.889 --> 00:43:52.369 I don't like when my dog sits on a manual. 971 00:43:52.809 --> 00:43:55.110 I think there's a difference between a bare minimum and 972 00:43:55.170 --> 00:43:57.969 also settling. And I think it's leading back to that 973 00:43:58.489 --> 00:44:00.909 thing that I said about, especially if you are in 974 00:44:00.929 --> 00:44:03.889 a minority, you get convinced that you have to settle 975 00:44:03.929 --> 00:44:06.469 for these things because the world is not your oyster, 976 00:44:06.710 --> 00:44:09.250 like someone who lives in the beauty ideal. But actually, 977 00:44:09.650 --> 00:44:11.590 sometimes when you look at the bigger picture of like, oh, 978 00:44:11.610 --> 00:44:13.920 I want to be able to date people. It's too overwhelming. 979 00:44:13.980 --> 00:44:16.659 Break it down to boundaries of like, see a behavior 980 00:44:16.699 --> 00:44:18.679 you don't like, correct the behavior you don't like. You 981 00:44:19.260 --> 00:44:22.039 Those people will weed themselves out already. You don't have 982 00:44:22.059 --> 00:44:24.719 to look at the bigger picture. But where a lot 983 00:44:24.760 --> 00:44:27.280 of people who

have been told, oh, if you're a 984 00:44:27.320 --> 00:44:29.420 certain race or you're a certain size or you're a 985 00:44:29.420 --> 00:44:32.440 certain ability, you're going to find it hard to date. 986 00:44:32.760 --> 00:44:34.409 When you're on a dating app, what they do is 987 00:44:34.429 --> 00:44:37.429 they reject themselves. So they see someone who maybe fits 988 00:44:37.469 --> 00:44:39.389 the beauty ideal and they go, oh, well, they wouldn't 989 00:44:39.429 --> 00:44:42.130 be interested in me. Because they've bought the narrative that 990 00:44:42.190 --> 00:44:45.030 society has told them. No matter what you look like, 991 00:44:45.070 --> 00:44:47.590 there is someone who will find you attractive and who 992 00:44:47.610 --> 00:44:50.369 will see the thing that you view as making you 993 00:44:50.429 --> 00:44:53.340 difficult to love as the easiest thing in the world. 994 00:44:53.559 --> 00:44:56.380 Do you think too many people are settling when it 995 00:44:56.420 --> 00:44:57.760 comes to dating and relationships? 996 00:44:58.300 --> 00:45:01.000 The reason why people settle is because they don't know 997 00:45:01.059 --> 00:45:05.170 there is a person out there who exists, who... will 998 00:45:05.269 --> 00:45:08.000 actually treat them the way they deserve. And what usually 999 00:45:08.099 --> 00:45:10.250 is the reason why they stay in that relationship is 1000 00:45:10.289 --> 00:45:13.789 because there's so much fear mongering around being single. As 1001 00:45:13.869 --> 00:45:15.449 I said, I was single for eight years. And can 1002 00:45:15.469 --> 00:45:18.719 you imagine the comments I got during those eight years? Like, oh, 1003 00:45:19.380 --> 00:45:22.360 you're just too picky or you're looking too hard. So 1004 00:45:22.400 --> 00:45:24.099 you can never win. You're either looking too hard or 1005 00:45:24.119 --> 00:45:24.940 not looking hard enough. 1006 00:45:24.980 --> 00:45:25.340 Right, sure. 1007 00:45:25.679 --> 00:45:28.780 Actually being okay with being single is a really pivotal 1008 00:45:28.820 --> 00:45:32.579 part of knowing you aren't settling in a relationship. Because 1009 00:45:32.739 --> 00:45:34.980 otherwise you will settle for the first person who walks 1010 00:45:35.019 --> 00:45:37.809 in the door because you don't like your own company. 1011 00:45:38.369 --> 00:45:40.710 And if the worst thing in the world is I 1012 00:45:40.769 --> 00:45:44.030 ended up forever alone... then I end up forever with 1013 00:45:44.130 --> 00:45:47.769 me and I like me. So that's okay. Whereas if 1014 00:45:47.849 --> 00:45:50.840 you think, oh, I'm going to be left with myself 1015 00:45:51.219 --> 00:45:53.159 and I don't even like being alone and I have 1016 00:45:53.159 --> 00:45:55.679 50 best friends because I never want to even sit 1017 00:45:55.719 --> 00:45:58.860 in my apartment by myself. then of course you're going 1018 00:45:58.900 --> 00:46:01.760 to run to anyone as company but for

you to 1019 00:46:01.889 --> 00:46:05.329 actually have standards and criteria and for you to look 1020 00:46:05.449 --> 00:46:08.030 at do you like them not just do they like 1021 00:46:08.090 --> 00:46:11.429 you you have to know what you deserve and that 1022 00:46:11.510 --> 00:46:14.909 ultimately comes down to knowing the difference between being lonely 1023 00:46:14.969 --> 00:46:17.750 and alone and being in a relationship will not fix 1024 00:46:17.789 --> 00:46:20.699 your loneliness. There are people in a relationship who are 1025 00:46:20.800 --> 00:46:23.280 lonely because they are not being understood by their partner, 1026 00:46:23.579 --> 00:46:26.800 who walk through the world as if they're a single anyway, 1027 00:46:27.059 --> 00:46:29.800 but just have their partner in their life because they 1028 00:46:29.860 --> 00:46:32.639 feel they need that to match what society tells them 1029 00:46:32.679 --> 00:46:35.599 they should be, especially around age. If you're a certain 1030 00:46:35.679 --> 00:46:38.599 age and single, or if you're single for a certain 1031 00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:42.739 length of time, they've been told, You're too single. You've 1032 00:46:42.760 --> 00:46:46.019 been alone for too long. All of those things. And actually, 1033 00:46:46.059 --> 00:46:48.119 if you're happy in your life, that's all that should matter. 1034 00:46:48.239 --> 00:46:51.489 And what would you recommend to someone who is struggling 1035 00:46:51.650 --> 00:46:54.309 and they know they're struggling with settling and generally going 1036 00:46:54.389 --> 00:46:56.530 for the first person who walks through the door or 1037 00:46:56.570 --> 00:46:59.070 the first kind of like semi-good date they have? What 1038 00:46:59.090 --> 00:47:01.300 would you say to someone in terms of advice in 1039 00:47:01.340 --> 00:47:03.320 order to be able to stop settling? 1040 00:47:03.719 --> 00:47:05.559 So I think it starts with that first date where 1041 00:47:05.579 --> 00:47:07.780 you go on the date with the intention to impress them. 1042 00:47:08.199 --> 00:47:11.760 Start letting them impress you. So what are you looking 1043 00:47:11.820 --> 00:47:14.000 for in a person? And actually go on the date 1044 00:47:14.059 --> 00:47:16.699 and ask yourself whether that is a person you would 1045 00:47:16.739 --> 00:47:19.599 be proud of to introduce, someone you would actually respect. 1046 00:47:19.900 --> 00:47:22.480 I know there's this like wishy-washy thing of be yourself, 1047 00:47:22.840 --> 00:47:27.070 but actually, you know there are moments where you've been inaccurate, 1048 00:47:27.159 --> 00:47:31.340 you've exaggerated something to be more impressive. Actually taking just 1049 00:47:31.340 --> 00:47:34.559 10% on a date to try to be more you 1050 00:47:34.739 --> 00:47:37.380 and show maybe the nerdy side of you that you're 1051 00:47:37.420 --> 00:47:41.260 insecure about. Or if it's something physical, turning up on 1052 00:47:41.300 --> 00:47:44.849 a date without makeup. And actually letting yourself do that 1053 00:47:44.889 --> 00:47:48.130 vulnerability and show yourself, actually, this isn't the worst thing 1054 00:47:48.150 --> 00:47:50.429 in the world. Because I think a lot of the 1055 00:47:50.489 --> 00:47:53.869 times we have these negative what-ifs of... people are going 1056 00:47:53.929 --> 00:47:56.369 to reject me to my face especially when I was 1057 00:47:56.429 --> 00:47:58.630 insecure about my surgery scars I genuinely thought I would 1058 00:47:58.650 --> 00:48:00.639 take my top off and people would run screaming from 1059 00:48:00.679 --> 00:48:03.940 the room because of my surgery scars but that whole 1060 00:48:03.980 --> 00:48:05.800 narrative was created in my head because of my own 1061 00:48:05.940 --> 00:48:09.119 insecurity and so actually the only way I got through 1062 00:48:09.159 --> 00:48:11.449 it and improved my point of view around my scars 1063 00:48:11.929 --> 00:48:14.170 was by taking my top off without feeling like I 1064 00:48:14.289 --> 00:48:17.289 had to give a disclaimer right or explain my surgery 1065 00:48:17.329 --> 00:48:20.639 scars And it took everything in me to like keep 1066 00:48:20.679 --> 00:48:22.440 the words in my mouth and not say anything. 1067 00:48:22.500 --> 00:48:23.179 And I was. 1068 00:48:23.119 --> 00:48:25.269 Probably really awkward at the time. And I was probably 1069 00:48:25.769 --> 00:48:29.039 that specific situation. He probably thought like she's acting a 1070 00:48:29.059 --> 00:48:31.719 bit weird. But the next time I was more comfortable. 1071 00:48:31.860 --> 00:48:34.110 It's only difficult once. The first time you do it 1072 00:48:34.250 --> 00:48:36.989 is difficult and then it gets easier. Same with setting boundaries. 1073 00:48:37.030 --> 00:48:38.690 The first time you say, hey, that's not going to 1074 00:48:38.710 --> 00:48:41.269 work for me. It's difficult. You might throw your phone 1075 00:48:41.309 --> 00:48:43.780 across the room and put it on airplane mode and 1076 00:48:43.820 --> 00:48:46.519 not want to check it. I specifically did that the 1077 00:48:46.539 --> 00:48:48.699 first time I sent a breakup text because I believed 1078 00:48:48.739 --> 00:48:51.340 in that like beggars can't be choosers I never ended 1079 00:48:51.400 --> 00:48:53.280 it so with the first guy I ever broke up 1080 00:48:53.320 --> 00:48:55.760 with was a really decent guy he was a great 1081 00:48:55.909 --> 00:48:59.210 guy I just wasn't interested and that was enough he 1082 00:48:59.230 --> 00:49:01.070 didn't have to be an awful guy for me not 1083 00:49:01.110 --> 00:49:03.530 to be interested but I was so scared I sent 1084 00:49:03.610 --> 00:49:05.190 a text while I was on the tube and I 1085 00:49:05.230 --> 00:49:08.590 was going into a TEDx meeting and I was like 1086 00:49:08.630 --> 00:49:12.110 well okay I can't be distracted during my TEDx preparation 1087

00:49:12.130 --> 00:49:14.690 meeting so I said to other tube put on airplane 1088 00:49:14.789 --> 00:49:19.079 mode and then I it clearly connects to the wi-fi 1089 00:49:19.159 --> 00:49:21.460 in between getting to the meeting and the tube and 1090 00:49:21.500 --> 00:49:23.590 the text came through and it was a positive text 1091 00:49:23.619 --> 00:49:25.309 and it was a positive reply and it's the first 1092 00:49:25.349 --> 00:49:27.789 time I've ever rejected a man and got a positive 1093 00:49:27.829 --> 00:49:30.329 reply and I was like it was this really reaffirming 1094 00:49:30.369 --> 00:49:33.809 moment of oh, wow, I'm dating a different quality of 1095 00:49:33.869 --> 00:49:38.309 human now. Like I said, I'm not interested anymore. And 1096 00:49:38.349 --> 00:49:41.300 he didn't return with abuse. He returned actually with a 1097 00:49:41.380 --> 00:49:44.780 really nice compliment about how like I'm really inspiring and 1098 00:49:44.800 --> 00:49:47.400 my career is great. And I did put that text 1099 00:49:47.539 --> 00:49:51.219 in my book. And a lot of people have responded 1100 00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:54.420 to that going, oh, you should have given him another chance. 1101 00:49:54.929 --> 00:49:56.869 And I was like, this is where it goes back 1102 00:49:56.889 --> 00:49:59.349 to bare minimum. Because I was like, a nice reply 1103 00:49:59.369 --> 00:50:02.489 is actually what you should expect. And we've got so 1104 00:50:02.570 --> 00:50:07.199 normalized that people respond with abuse or hurtful comments when 1105 00:50:07.300 --> 00:50:10.860 you reject them, that this is now the unicorn in 1106 00:50:10.880 --> 00:50:13.800 the pile. When actually that doesn't make us a match 1107 00:50:13.880 --> 00:50:15.760 just because you replied to it kindly. 1108 00:50:16.300 --> 00:50:18.739 Yeah, no, you're so right. Well, thank you so much 1109 00:50:18.780 --> 00:50:20.949 for coming on. You have been absolutely amazing. I feel 1110 00:50:20.969 --> 00:50:23.369 like I've had like a boundaries bootcamp on it, which 1111 00:50:23.409 --> 00:50:26.429 I feel like is always very necessary and always very reaffirming. 1112 00:50:26.449 --> 00:50:28.309 But thank you so much for coming on and sharing 1113 00:50:28.349 --> 00:50:30.730 your story and your wisdom. A lot of people will 1114 00:50:30.750 --> 00:50:31.670 really appreciate it. 1115 00:50:31.809 --> 00:50:46.440 Thank you so much. Trademark Waits. 1116 00:50:47.110 --> 00:50:48.510 Launch date, wait. 1117 00:50:49.130 --> 00:50:51.010 Open bank account, wait. 1118 00:50:51.570 --> 00:50:52.929 Invoice, wait. 1119 00:50:53.429 --> 00:50:55.110 Payday, wait. 1120 00:50:55.789 --> 00:50:58.530 We spend enough time waiting in business, but when it 1121 00:50:58.550 --> 00:51:01.730 comes to banking, we've waited long enough. It's why Monzo 1122 00:51:01.849 --> 00:51:05.989 offers simple business accounts to help make life easier for you. Monzo, 1123 00:51:06.320 --> 00:51:09.269 a new era of banking. Only sole traders or Irish 1124 00:51:09.309 --> 00:51:12.389 limited companies eligible. Monzo Bank Europe DAC, trading as Monzo, 1125 00:51:12.469 --> 00:51:14.400 is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland. T's and 1126 00:51:14.420 --> 00:51:14.860 C's apply. 1127 00:51:15.320 --> 00:51:19.760 Lose yourself in a golden river of slow-churned caramel enrobed 1128 00:51:19.820 --> 00:51:21.320 in thick white chocolate. 1129 00:51:21.699 --> 00:51:22.440 So soft. 1130 00:51:23.019 --> 00:51:25.480 Oh, that's unreal caramel. 1131 00:51:25.699 --> 00:51:26.940 Get out, that's not protein. 1132 00:51:27.239 --> 00:51:28.420 Grenade Softcore. 1133 00:51:28.780 --> 00:51:32.139 Contains 15 grams of protein and under 2 grams of sugar. 1134 00:51:33.010 --> 00:51:34.670 Absolutely divine.