บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Beyond The Message: Following Jesus in a Divided Political World

00:02:37.520 --> 00:02:39.599 No, I haven't, but I do know how I'm gonna vote. 00:02:39.680 --> 00:02:39.840 Yeah. 00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:41.520 Okay, so you're a decided voter. 00:02:41.599 --> 00:02:41.680 Yeah. 00:02:41.840 --> 00:02:51.599 And uh this will come out on Wednesday, and uh election day is Saturday, so we encourage you to to go out and participate and use your right to vote and make an informed vote. 00:02:51.759 --> 00:02:58.080 Um, and just talking about left and right and different sides, also on Saturday, there's a big football game. 00:02:58.159 --> 00:03:07.759 So I I'm wearing my colours here for Wellington Phoenix in a big sort of example of courageous resistance against the forces of power that are Auken FC. 00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:12.000 So two things are happening on Saturday, so that's why I'm wearing this uh jumper. 00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:13.120 Oh, it's a big deal. 00:03:13.360 --> 00:03:19.759 But um, you did you got an email uh related to your sermon, which we love getting engagement around our sermons. 00:03:19.919 --> 00:03:33.840 Uh, and it was it was sort of talking about a part in your intro where joked and talked about where you and Alan land politically, uh, and they just said um they asked uh whether you could clarify um what you were saying around voting left or right. 00:03:34.159 --> 00:03:48.879 Yeah, I think um it was a really good question to ask uh because I I did I did uh in the intro say very clearly, I vote left, my husband votes right, and then I said that he was wrong, which was a joke, and it was created for a laugh. 00:03:49.039 --> 00:03:53.840 But yeah, Christians are on a whole spectrum of the way that they vote, the way that they see politics. 00:03:54.080 --> 00:04:01.120 Um, and I I know that uh it's always been a topic of all pain, conversation and pain in our household. 00:04:01.599 --> 00:04:13.759 Um and uh and so yeah, I I also think the scriptures that I use throughout the um sermon was a referring uh often to the marginalized and the poor, which can lead people to think left. 00:04:13.919 --> 00:04:25.920 But um the point that I was making right from the beginning and again and again is that biblical politics, um, or the or from the book, Reimagining Biblical Politics, is uh not about left or right at all. 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:27.199 It's not polarizing. 00:04:27.439 --> 00:04:29.199 There are so many nuances. 00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:33.199 The Bible is really, really complex in the way it sees it. 00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:42.480 Even the idea of courageous resistance versus consistent uh engagement, you know, what we're talking about today, there's they're they're different, you know. 00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:47.360 Um you can't always use courageous resistance, you can't always use cons constructive engagement, you know. 00:04:47.439 --> 00:05:00.399 So um uh I I do think that the point is is is going to scripture, looking at what people are saying, does it line up with what Jesus is saying, what the values of the kingdom are, and and voting accordingly. 00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:00.879 Wow. 00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:01.920 Yeah, that's great. 00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:04.079 Thanks for adding that kind of nuance. 00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:17.920 And and um I love that you and Alan are a great example of having that sort of political difference, maybe in in sort of your where you would normally vote, but yeah, a beautiful marriage and uh just an awesome relationship. 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:24.800 So I think that adds strength to the idea that we can disagree um politically, we can have like different ways that we might vote. 00:05:24.879 --> 00:05:40.319 Um we can still love each other as husband and wife, and um so if you can do that, then we can all be in church and necessarily disagree and um respect one another um as Christians, as fellow brothers and sisters, maybe even as uh as husband and wife. 00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:55.519 Um and also, yeah, I like that point of like um it reminded me of something else that Michael Rhodes said in the book or in his podcast about Christians are called to be unreliable allies to either the left or right. 00:05:55.680 --> 00:05:55.920 Yes. 00:05:56.079 --> 00:06:02.480 So so we shouldn't be hit in his point of view, we shouldn't be like locked in on a particular party or side. 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:02.800 Yes. 00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:11.439 We should be unreliable in the sense that we're with you on certain issues, but actually we're we're we're first and foremost our allegiance is with Jesus. 00:06:11.519 --> 00:06:11.839 Yes. 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:17.360 And if there's a major dischange of your direction, that's not we're we're not staying with you. 00:06:17.439 --> 00:06:31.600 We're we're like tied our stuff to Jesus, and and we're not like locked in diehards on any kind of political party, but our first and foremost allegiance is to Jesus, and we review that at each opportunity. 00:06:31.839 --> 00:06:32.319 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:37.040 And I I think that's why you know you can't um someone said to me, Oh, you vote Labour. 00:06:37.199 --> 00:06:41.759 No, I I I voted right across the political spectrum because for that very reason. 00:06:41.839 --> 00:06:42.240 Yeah. 00:06:42.480 --> 00:06:42.879 Yeah. 00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:48.079 So um thanks for uh addressing that and thanks to those who have kind of contributed and engaged. 00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:57.360 Um, but we have a lot more questions to go into, uh, and we've talked about these terms courageous resistance um and constructive engagement. 00:06:57.600 --> 00:07:03.360 Yeah, pretty sure I um those terms come from someone called Christopher Wright. 00:07:03.519 --> 00:07:13.199 And um yeah, I don't know if Michael used them or not, but I I do like the way they frame kind of sometimes we need to resist, sometimes we're called to actually engage. 00:07:13.439 --> 00:07:21.439 Um, and in terms of courageous

resistance, you brought this um wonderful example from Exodus chapter one of the midwives. 00:07:21.680 --> 00:07:25.279 Yeah, people love the midwives, yeah, yeah, because they didn't get enough time, eh? 00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:29.519 Um how was that for you diving into that passage? 00:07:29.839 --> 00:07:36.879 Yeah, I I I really enjoyed it, and obviously, as a woman preacher, you know, there's not a lot of woman examples that we preach from. 00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:47.439 Uh, and there's so little on this, but the stand that they took, yeah, you know, how could they not be in fear and trembling when Pharaoh said, I want to talk, why have you let them live? 00:07:47.519 --> 00:07:50.079 You know, um, death must have been on the cards, you know. 00:07:50.480 --> 00:07:56.639 He's just said he's gonna kill all the boys, so he's obviously not opposed to killing majorly, you know, particularly Israelites. 00:07:56.720 --> 00:08:03.920 So um yeah, um, yeah, I I think that it was incredibly brave and and God protected them, you know. 00:08:04.079 --> 00:08:04.480 So yeah. 00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:07.279 Yeah, I love how you highlighted that they feared God. 00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:07.600 Yeah. 00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:09.680 And then linked that to First Peter as well. 00:08:09.759 --> 00:08:11.680 That was really um really cool. 00:08:11.920 --> 00:08:18.319 The other example you gave was um was a modern day one with Dave and Denise Timms um out at Ramwick Park. 00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:18.959 Amazing. 00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:23.199 Um and actually your Michael Rhodes is connected to them with Urban Neighbours of Hope. 00:08:23.439 --> 00:08:24.720 Yeah, he lives in their community, yeah. 00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:30.000 Yeah, so they've actually had a bit of um because Michael talked about the same thing on the podcast as well. 00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:41.120 Yeah, um, so they're a great example as well of courageous resistance pushing back against um, you know, government systems, I mean it was Auckland Transport around safer roads and for their community. 00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:41.679 Yeah. 00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:44.960 Um, but I wondered now we've got a bit more space on the podcast. 00:08:45.039 --> 00:08:45.200 Yeah. 00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:50.320 Is there is there another example that's really inspired you from anywhere in the world around courageous resistance? 00:08:50.559 --> 00:08:51.840 Yeah, um, there's so many. 00:08:52.000 --> 00:09:01.519 There are so many throughout history of Christians who have stood in the name of Jesus against oppression, um, often are losing their lives because of it. 00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:08.080 Um but one in particular that that I guess has meant a lot to me, continues to, is Rosa Parks. 00:09:08.639 --> 00:09:16.000 Um, and she uh was a catalyst for the um the Montgomery bus boycotts uh back in 1955. 00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:22.159 And on the 1st of December, uh the bus driver turned around to her and said, Get up, there's

a white person who wants your seat. 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:23.679 And she just sat there. 00:09:23.919 --> 00:09:27.519 And I think that the background to her story is just so amazing. 00:09:27.759 --> 00:09:32.000 Um what a lot of people don't know about her is that she was a deacon in her church. 00:09:32.080 --> 00:09:38.320 Well, she was a Sunday school teacher, which didn't mean little kids, it meant adults, okay, um, going deeper theologically into stuff. 00:09:38.480 --> 00:09:45.919 She was also the secretary for the um National Association of Advancements for Coloured People. 00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:56.480 And uh and her job was to go to every single rape that was racially um uh formed, every single lynching, and to write history so it wouldn't be forgotten. 00:09:56.639 --> 00:09:56.879 Wow. 00:09:57.120 --> 00:10:00.240 Even though um they never got or very rarely got justice. 00:10:00.879 --> 00:10:07.759 And she had just been to a particularly bad one the day before, and uh and she just I think it was it was enough. 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:08.399 It was enough. 00:10:08.639 --> 00:10:09.919 So that was all the backstory to it. 00:10:10.879 --> 00:10:12.240 Getting on the bus being like, no, I'm not moving. 00:10:12.480 --> 00:10:13.039 I'm not moving. 00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:26.240 And she did say the Exodus story was incredibly powerful for her because it was a resistance against Pharaoh, and she knew she was made in the image of God and that her worth was a hundred percent equal to anybody else. 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:38.080 And so when she didn't get up, and when she was, you know, um resistant, uh courageously resistant, um yeah, that that she said that just peace of God fell upon her. 00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:44.559 She wasn't afraid, she wasn't angry, and she prayed and said, Lord, whatever you're bringing, I will take it. 00:10:45.039 --> 00:10:58.720 Took 381 days uh of resistance of uh for the coloured community to not ride the buses and uh in all kinds of weather and it took hours and hours extra every day, but they desegregated the buses. 00:10:59.039 --> 00:11:01.919 Wow, so oh so over a year they boycotted the buses. 00:11:02.559 --> 00:11:02.720 Yeah. 00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:07.840 And eventually they they were then sort of seeding was for everyone after that. 00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:21.360 But but more than that, um, throughout the resistance, Martin Luther King rose up to be seen as the leader of this organization, the voice, the mouthpiece, and that obviously re led to the incredibly powerful civil rights movement. 00:11:21.600 --> 00:11:21.840 Wow. 00:11:21.919 --> 00:11:23.519 Yeah, what a fantastic example. 00:11:23.679 --> 00:11:31.919 And we I mean many most people would have heard of Rosa Parks, but yeah, um, not all of that backstory to what led to this famous moment. 00:11:32.159 --> 00:11:32.639 Yeah. 00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:39.600 Uh and it's um a bit like the midwives, you know, they had this famous moment now through Exodus of like we're gonna say no to this. 00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:39.919 Yes. 00:11:40.080 --> 00:11:50.159 But they would have had their own backstory and understanding of relationship with God, and that they were made in his image, and that um and the boys were made in his image, yeah. 00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:51.840 So you had the right to love. 00:11:52.480 --> 00:12:00.240 That that's another fantastic example, and I know you could probably give uh on Hoffer and his yeah, there's so many amazing people. 00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:08.080 Um the other um scripture that you looked at came from well, major one was from first Peter. 00:12:08.799 --> 00:12:11.919 Uh and Peter called his readers exiles. 00:12:12.399 --> 00:12:26.080 Um and you you pointed out that those people probably lots of them were were not exiles, like they were from that country, or um maybe they weren't living as like geographical exiles. 00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:32.240 Um and then that gets applied to us today as like new New Testament believers in the church. 00:12:32.879 --> 00:12:38.000 Um I guess I'm kind of an immigrant, I I am an immigrant to New Zealand. 00:12:38.080 --> 00:12:39.039 I I wasn't born here. 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:40.399 Yeah, you're born in New Zealand. 00:12:40.480 --> 00:12:40.879 Yeah, yeah. 00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:42.480 Um you have uh you have a passport. 00:12:42.879 --> 00:12:44.159 I do, a New Zealand one, yeah. 00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:52.320 So you're a New Zealand citizen, but like there's this sense where spiritually like you're an exile, and this kind of where we get that term pilgrim politics. 00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:52.879 Yes. 00:12:53.039 --> 00:12:54.720 Um, this is not our home. 00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:58.080 Um, what does it mean to be a spiritual exile? 00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:00.480 And and how do we s keep remembering that? 00:13:00.559 --> 00:13:03.279 Because I imagine you feel at home in New Zealand. 00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:04.240 Totally. 00:13:04.399 --> 00:13:04.799 Yeah. 00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:07.519 So it's quite weird to be this is not my home. 00:13:07.759 --> 00:13:08.000 Yes. 00:13:08.159 --> 00:13:09.600 And and how do we remember that? 00:13:10.159 --> 00:13:21.919 Yeah, I I I mean think that's that's one of the things that really struck me for me personally, is even though I keep on using in this this through the scripture one, Peter, um, the idea of exile and so jour journey. 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:24.960 In my head, most of the time, I'm not thinking like that. 00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:25.200 Yeah. 00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:28.399 In my faith relationship with God, I'm not thinking like that, you know. 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:29.679 I'm a New Zealander. 00:13:29.919 --> 00:13:33.840 And I think the really difficult thing is we swim in this culture, we don't see it. 00:13:33.919 --> 00:13:37.440 I love that saying, if you want to know about water, don't ask a fish, you know. 00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:40.559 Um and uh because

they don't see the water, right? 00:13:40.639 --> 00:13:44.000 But and we don't see how culture affects us so much. 00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:50.799 And we do get swept away by the politics, we do get swept away by, you know, cultural understanding. 00:13:51.039 --> 00:14:07.840 So um to live in the reality that we actually are um citizens of heaven primarily and citizens of the kingdom and called to bring about and bring God's kingdom to earth, you know, is is just hard to to to to remember. 00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:18.559 Um it says in uh 1 Peter 2, uh, but you are not like that, for you are a chosen people, you're a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's very own possession. 00:14:19.120 --> 00:14:25.600 As a result, you can show others the goodness of God, for he called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light. 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:34.960 And um yeah, I I c to live in the fact that you are a royal priest, a holy nation, God's very own possession. 00:14:35.600 --> 00:15:06.320 Um I guess where you're constantly fighting um the the assumptions of uh the cultures of our world, you know, and again a part that's been highlighted by this whole thing around biblical politics, you know, um really well highlighted that um uh I am called to, as uh as it says in verse 11, uh as a temporary resident and foreigner to keep away from worldly desires that war wage war against your very souls. 00:15:06.879 --> 00:15:08.879 Um and how do I stay in that? 00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:20.080 And how do I live in that and how do I keep remembering that, you know, unless I have it written on my talk, you know, Ludor or something like that, you know, um uh or have an alarm that rings regularly. 00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:27.519 And I think the the best place to remember that is is going into the quiet, is is going and spending time with God. 00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:39.840 And I think of the Lord's Prayer, you know, that it says um it says so clearly to us, you know, our Father who is in heaven, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. 00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:53.519 And uh, and so um yeah, going into those quiet moments, remembering who my heavenly father is, remembering it's his kingdom, that it's his will I want done, that there's a lot going out in the world that does wage war with my soul. 00:15:53.919 --> 00:15:55.039 And so, yeah. 00:15:55.279 --> 00:16:03.600 Um, and then there's the there's the blessing of the opportunity to actually serve him in those places, which is constructive engagement, yeah. 00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:04.480 Yeah, yeah. 00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:06.559 Um, now we're talking about this question. 00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:20.399 I do I feel like it's probably one of the keys to this series and to our political discipleship is that remembering that like ultimately this is not our home and our first allegiance, it kind of comes back to that thing. 00:16:20.559 --> 00:16:33.600 Jesus is Lord, the kingdom is his, and ultimately we're called to be part of that before we are called to be part of New Zealand or part of um England or or whatever it is. 00:16:33.919 --> 00:16:42.240 Um, but it's so hard to like remember that because every day we feel like we're surrounded by the world and this is our actual home. 00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:55.919 And um, yeah, I don't I don't think we believe it we're pilgrims in the sense that we're aiming to go and live somewhere else, like that we're meant to be in heaven and that's some other place and and we need to wait until we go there. 00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:59.679 Yeah, but like that idea, like you said, in the Lord's Prayer, your kingdom come here. 00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:00.240 Yeah, yeah. 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:08.559 It's a hard idea to hold that, like this is not my home, but then I can kind of help bring it about with God, and He's trying to establish His kingdom here, yeah. 00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:16.559 Um, but ultimately my allegiance is not to left or right or um to any political vision other than Jesus's. 00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:19.599 Um but it's a really hard thing to wrap around. 00:17:19.759 --> 00:17:35.279 And I was also thinking um one of the ways that we remember that is the church when we gather with God's people who who remind us that like hey, we're we're the church and we are called to be a royal priesthood, the holy nation. 00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:35.759 Yeah. 00:17:35.920 --> 00:17:40.880 Um, because that's not me individually, but that's us together who are the holy nation. 00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:53.200 Yeah, and that's why it's so important to meet together, you know, life groups weekly or bi-weekly, yeah, and and on Sundays, you know, is like here is my family of God, you know, and that's what I love about worship, you know. 00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:59.359 That's what I love about hearing someone speak, you know, is reminding me who I am, who my identity is. 00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:00.400 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:08.559 That's why for my for me, the my favorite song this series is is the one we sing, the kingdom is yours, hold on a little longer, this is not the end. 00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:08.799 Yeah. 00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:11.599 Um, hope is in the Lord, keep your eyes on him. 00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:21.200 That kind of horizontal singing almost to each other to remind us that the kingdom is his and ultimately whatever happens on Saturday, that's not the end. 00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:24.000 Yeah, the end is that Jesus will come and establish his kingdom. 00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:26.880 You mean the soccer game or the great, yeah. 00:18:27.119 --> 00:18:31.599 You know, if even if Orkham win, um hold on a little more, Phoenix fans. 00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:34.799 Next year there's always Yeah, there's always another season. 00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:39.519 Yeah, um, and Jesus will come and establish Wellington as the true A-League champion. 00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:44.000 Um but I think even thinking about

Rosa Parks, right? 00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:51.839 Um, is how would it have felt for her like on on in the right in the middle of that day, you know, 195? 00:18:52.240 --> 00:19:00.240 True, and and it was courageous resistance, but it was the whole point was to bring about the kingdom of God to stand against something evil. 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:25.279 And because she couldn't have done it on her own, because the churches pulled together and and even some of the white churches were pulling with them, you know, and part of the driving people around, but yeah, together they were able to be resistant, and together um they were to able to engage constructively with politics and the bus companies, and yeah, it it changed something, it stood against racism and systematic evil. 00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:32.799 So, yeah, it is, it is in the middle of those kind of situations, it's we're called to something higher, something bigger. 00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:33.279 Yeah. 00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:47.200 So, like to summarize, because I think you've you've brought up two elements there, is that individually we can we can go away too quiet to spend time with God and remember, like have him remind us who our true identity is. 00:19:48.079 --> 00:20:00.400 Um and do that individually, but and then we also do that with others where where we remind each other that like hey, we're the church and we're God's family, and ultimately our home is with him and we're about his kingdom. 00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:00.559 Yeah. 00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:06.160 And we can do both of those which help us to remember that yeah, where our true allegiance lies. 00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:06.960 So good. 00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:10.079 Yeah, I feel like I'm learning a lot from this conversation. 00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:18.240 Um the final the final element um which I want to pick up on was this phrase that you used around a burden of love. 00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:18.960 Yes. 00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:25.440 Um do you want to just because not everyone has probably listened or can remember um what that was. 00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:28.960 Where where did that come from and what do you mean by a burden of love? 00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:39.279 Yeah, I I um I heard John Mike Comer talking about it, but there was some there's a uh Kelly was the person who sort sort of uh created the phrase that he sort of built on. 00:20:39.519 --> 00:20:44.400 But um a burden of love is a particular heart that you have for a cause. 00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:56.480 Um and that cause may uh some of the examples we talked about, that cause may be um the homelessness or immigrants or refugees, or that may be, you know, one of your kids is particularly struggling. 00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:27.920 And so if you push into that space and and and push into that young person, um, or a teacher who cares about the students, you know, it could be uh uh a life group that has a particular cause, or Dave and Denise, who and you know, so yeah, it is a particular burden of love that you that is yours, God has given you that specific thing to carry, you that um a joyous burden of love, and out of that you operate because it's given to you and it's particular to you, there's a joy and there's energy around it. 00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:34.319 It's not guilt or obligation, but you're participating with Christ in the action that goes with that. 00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:38.400 And just like we said with the last one, impossible to do alone. 00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:39.920 You need others with you, yeah. 00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:51.920 Yeah, I like how you because it can be so easy at the moment to look at the world and think there's all these needs, and yeah, the news makes you aware of all of them all over the world, and and you feel guilty for not doing something about all of them. 00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:52.400 Yeah. 00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:56.799 Or some people feel guilty for not fixing all of the all of the world's problems. 00:21:57.039 --> 00:21:59.519 But um, I love how you said like God. 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:10.319 Is infinite and omnipresent and has people in all places to care about and advocate for and do all of those things, but you are not infinite and you are not God. 00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:20.319 And and that kind of language of he's given you a unique burden of love to carry, uh, which others maybe can't do because of particular skill sets and passions that you have. 00:22:20.559 --> 00:22:30.000 Um so I I really enjoyed that way that you finished and invited people to think about maybe they already know or um think about what could be a burden of love. 00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:41.680 Um but one question I was thinking about was um, you know, what about someone who might say they feel too busy to like I've already got so many burdens in my life. 00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:42.079 Yeah. 00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:48.079 What what I don't feel I have space to kind of have a burden of love. 00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:57.039 Yeah, I I I think one of the points is that in your lifetime there's probably two or three um particular burdens that you get that take a lot, you know. 00:22:57.200 --> 00:23:01.279 A lot of I think a lot of the burdens that we have can be smaller things, you know. 00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:03.359 Um you see a neighbor who is struggling, okay. 00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:05.920 Like we did, one of our neighbor's husbands died, you know. 00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:14.319 And so for a while there you're just checking in, you're providing meals, you know, you're just doing what you can, you know, th those and I think it's stages of life as well. 00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:22.880 Um I I remember um uh doing some reading about um women who are at home with little kids with toddlers. 00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:26.400 It's one of the most stressful times of their lives. 00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:42.079 Um, and so you know, there's there's a lot going on for for people in those situations, and even at at my my

generation, I watch them as they have their young adult children are having kids and there's you know, pull there, and then their parents are getting old and dying. 00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:43.039 There's pull there. 00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:47.839 There's definitely, you know, stages and times in your life when there's a lot going on. 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:57.279 Um, but you can uh if you're willing to say, Lord, what is the burden of love that you would have me to serve someone today? 00:23:57.440 --> 00:24:03.839 Um, or um, Lord, what is the one thing that I'm gonna push into and give extra time and energy to? 00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:07.680 But also I think we're afraid that we're gonna be overwhelmed by it. 00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:07.839 Yeah. 00:24:08.079 --> 00:24:09.839 And so it stops us pushing into it. 00:24:09.920 --> 00:24:10.079 Yeah. 00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:14.960 And the incredible thing is, God, because it's your burden of love, you actually there's a joy in it. 00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:16.720 There's actually energy for it. 00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:28.319 Um, for me at the moment, I'm looking at um homelessness, you know, here on the shore and part of a group that's starting to push into doing research, writing papers, you know, um talking to the council. 00:24:28.480 --> 00:24:39.440 Um, I could go, oh yeah, my life is really busy, but I'm actually really care about this and really want to pay be part of a group that makes a uh change here, you know. 00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:44.799 So yeah, I think that burden of love is um God given. 00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:51.839 There's grace for it, there's energy for it, and uh it is just I'll be faithful with a small part that I've got. 00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:52.720 Yeah. 00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:53.680 Oh, I like that. 00:24:53.759 --> 00:25:01.519 And that's yeah, I guess I maybe I was thinking of like a long it had to be like a calling for the rest of your life. 00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:03.440 Oh, right, but it definitely could be. 00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:19.440 And it's not necessarily you have to walk with them for the rest of their lives, but for this particular season, there's a burden for that particular person and an opportunity because of proximity. 00:25:19.599 --> 00:25:31.680 Um and I do think that the way that you framed it made it less overwhelming than just thinking you're called to be equally involved in every single area of need in the world. 00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:41.599 Yes, and feeling guilty that you may be doing amazing stuff in homelessness, then you could feel guilty, oh, but I'm not doing enough about the environment or t or yeah. 00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:49.920 Um there's there's so many things, and I feel like we can often feel guilty about what we're not doing instead of asking God, what are you calling me to? 00:25:50.799 --> 00:25:51.039 Yeah. 00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:54.480 And he's got a body, he he can call other people to those other things. 00:25:54.720 --> 00:25:57.519 You're just called to be faithful when he's called you to be faithful, yeah. 00:25:57.759 --> 00:26:05.680 So hopefully that um even that lack I like that because it's burden of love, it it kind of reframes some of that overwhelm and that guilt. 00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:06.160 Yeah. 00:26:06.319 --> 00:26:17.519 Um, and but hopefully people can think about that, and it's great to see life group examples of of getting together with others who have a similar burden, and so many things have come out of that. 00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:21.839 We've talked about Rosa Parks and and the value of a stand, but then community. 00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:31.519 Yeah, and then um you gave examples in your message of um equip and take seven and vision west and things that have been birthed from people going, God, what are you calling me to? 00:26:31.759 --> 00:26:33.200 Oh, there's three or four of us. 00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:34.160 Okay, what can we do? 00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:34.960 Yeah, that's right. 00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:39.440 What was the saying that you said um you closed with kind of imagine what God would do? 00:26:39.759 --> 00:26:41.039 Well, who knows what God will do? 00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:44.960 Yeah, I love that saying because it's not about me, it's about him, you know. 00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:45.839 So yeah. 00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:47.200 Who knows what God will do? 00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:48.319 Who knows what God will do? 00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:53.519 Uh thanks, Heather, for uh an amazing sermon and amazing conversation that taken it deeper. 00:26:53.599 --> 00:26:55.039 Uh appreciate your time. 00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:59.680 Um, thanks for everyone for listening and commenting and and getting involved. 00:26:59.839 --> 00:27:02.079 And remember, uh get out and vote. 00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:04.400 Um, get to the Auckland and Phoenix game. 00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:08.160 I don't care who you support, but it'll be a good game for football in New Zealand. 00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:12.880 Uh and on Sunday, uh, we're continuing our political disciples mess uh series. 00:27:13.039 --> 00:27:20.079 Grant will be also talking about pilgrim politics, but more from the lens of when we do have power. 00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:22.480 So he's talking about Christians with influence. 00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:25.279 So, you know, the midwives were in a very particular situation. 00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:27.839 They, compared to Pharaoh, had very little power. 00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:41.359 But sometimes as Christians, and in New Zealand, a lot of us have influence and power around board tables or in organizations, and we genuinely have the opportunity to engage and to create influence. 00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:43.359 What do we do with that when we have it? 00:27:43.519 --> 00:27:49.519 So Grant's going to be talking about that, and on Wednesday we'll be having a podcast follow up to that conversation. 00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:55.920 So until then, uh may God continue to shape us as we listen, learn, and follow Jesus together.