บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Over-Pleasing, Depletion, and the Pause Before the Reaction with Pam Dwyer

Nothing's wrong with you. 00:05:23.279 --> 00:05:25.920 You just need to rest more, sleep better. 00:05:26.480 --> 00:05:38.800 And the whole time it's it's the brain is exhausted because it's quietly depleted, meaning you are on, you know, go, go, go, go, go all the time. 00:05:38.879 --> 00:05:40.399 That's what we do as women. 00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:42.079 You know, we check all the boxes. 00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:47.680 We got so much to do at work, in our careers, with our children, with our homes. 00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:51.519 And we're gonna get it all done because, well, who else is gonna do it? 00:05:51.759 --> 00:06:01.839 And we never give ourselves that pause, that moment to rest or think about who we are and why we do what we do. 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:03.439 Why am I working so much? 00:06:03.600 --> 00:06:05.759 I mean, overworking is a huge binge. 00:06:05.920 --> 00:06:06.319 Yes. 00:06:06.560 --> 00:06:08.000 So is over pleasing. 00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:10.879 Those are two of my big binges. 00:06:11.360 --> 00:06:12.399 Yes, yes. 00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:22.000 I've noticed that about you because you are such an incredible professional and you dot all the I's and cross all the T's, and it's beautiful. 00:06:22.160 --> 00:06:24.639 Your output is is beautiful. 00:06:24.959 --> 00:06:26.399 How do you balance that? 00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:33.680 Like you're carrying something that doesn't show up in the work that you that you put out into the world. 00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:41.600 What is that that you're carrying, and how do you manage that tendency in you to overwork and to over please? 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:54.560 Yes, it it's taken probably, I've been in about eight years of counseling, professional therapy, and I I still go, you know, just to keep myself uh in line. 00:06:55.279 --> 00:07:03.360 Because I don't care what anyone says, once your your brain develops a pattern, it loves patterns, good or bad. 00:07:03.759 --> 00:07:15.759 But once it is forced to create a pattern that it thinks it's protecting you, you know, and like in my childhood, I grew up in a very abusive, dysfunctional family. 00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:22.800 And so the first thing you think of as a young person is, why are they so mad at me? 00:07:22.959 --> 00:07:24.560 What did I do wrong? 00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:34.480 And so you strive your whole childhood to please them, to do everything they need you to do so you don't get hurt. 00:07:35.120 --> 00:07:37.680 I just I just don't want them to hurt me. 00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:42.240 And so I'm going to behave in a manner that protects me. 00:07:42.399 --> 00:07:44.319 My brain was protecting me. 00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:48.800 And unfortunately, that's learned and it's reliable. 00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:52.639 So you carry that into your adult life. 00:07:53.120 --> 00:08:00.480 Now, it has served me well in some areas, like you said, in my career and in everything that I do. 00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:12.639 But what I

learned is how to use the pain for purpose instead of just trying to please everyone, my coworkers, my boss, my family. 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:19.680 Because what I discovered is it was exhausting me to the point of where I was relying on unhealthy habits. 00:08:19.839 --> 00:08:22.000 Mine, in this instance, was food. 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:26.160 And so I was over 300 pounds at one point. 00:08:26.319 --> 00:08:26.879 Wow. 00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:32.720 And and still, believe it or not, the doctors were telling me my labs look great. 00:08:32.960 --> 00:08:36.399 You just need to, you know, calories in, calories out. 00:08:36.559 --> 00:08:38.480 You need to stop eating so much Pam. 00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:42.559 But I could not control that because that was my release. 00:08:43.519 --> 00:08:47.279 I turned to food for comfort because number one, I grew up very hungry. 00:08:47.519 --> 00:08:49.600 We were very poor and I had no food. 00:08:49.840 --> 00:08:55.679 So already, you know, that pattern of you need food, Pam, eat, eat, eat while it's here. 00:08:55.840 --> 00:08:57.600 You may not have it tomorrow. 00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:03.519 So all of those things, there is no way I could I couldn't figure out why. 00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:11.600 I knew I was getting heavier and I knew the chocolate cake wasn't going to serve me, but I ate it anyway. 00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:14.080 That's when I got very curious. 00:09:14.399 --> 00:09:18.799 Why do we continue to do the things that we know harms us? 00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:25.919 You know, and it's because it's so hard to override the pattern that your brain has developed. 00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:27.360 Right. 00:09:27.519 --> 00:09:33.679 The pattern is there in order to attempt to keep us feeling at least safe enough. 00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:38.960 Even if it's not literally true that it's keeping us safe, it feels like it's keeping us safe. 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:41.759 Food was was very similar for me growing up, Pam. 00:09:42.320 --> 00:09:46.720 It was the one consistent thing was really in my case, we had it. 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:59.919 We had plenty of it and an abundance of it, and especially sweets, because my grandmother lived next door and she always cooked, she always had multiple cookies and cakes and pies in her house, even when it wasn't holidays. 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:02.799 And it was the one place I knew I could get comfort. 00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:05.440 I knew it was there and I knew I could get comfort. 00:10:05.679 --> 00:10:11.759 And to this day, you know, it's it's a pull for me, is that is seeking that comfort there. 00:10:11.840 --> 00:10:14.320 And the comfort is what makes us feel safe. 00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:27.519 And learning how to have that pause as you talk about, take that pause, take a step, you know, take a beat and and slow down and say, yes, yes, I I want to affirm the fact that I need comfort right now. 00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:37.679 How can I get it in a way that truly protects me, truly helps me stay safe, truly is safe and comforting and soothing. 00:10:37.840 --> 00:10:45.600 And that's kind of a little bit of a stretch because food, especially sugar, just the dopamine hit is so powerful. 00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:50.000 Well, and the dopamine is what we seek when we're quietly depleted. 00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:53.679 The dopamine is is a surge of energy, right? 00:10:53.840 --> 00:11:12.000 And so if you get a dopamine rush from yelling at your kids, arguing with your spouse, eating the chocolate cake, all the things that give me this temporary, very temporary rush of energy so that I can keep doing what I feel I have to do. 00:11:12.320 --> 00:11:17.279 And so I got very curious about why I was doing this. 00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:20.879 At first I didn't realize it because I was successful. 00:11:21.039 --> 00:11:23.360 I was thriving at my job. 00:11:23.519 --> 00:11:26.240 I was a I know to this day I'm a great mom. 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:29.759 You know, I make sure my kids don't have the life I had. 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:35.440 And I know I'm a great wife because I love him to the ends of the earth. 00:11:35.919 --> 00:11:42.879 And he doesn't deserve it when I when I lose my temper, but he he he is patient, thank goodness. 00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:45.360 But I don't want to be that way. 00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:57.039 And you know, sometimes you think you're handling life beautifully, and you are, but until you aren't, you know, it doesn't quiet depletion doesn't happen overnight. 00:11:57.679 --> 00:12:02.080 It happens one unnoticed pattern at a time. 00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:04.639 And I've lived that. 00:12:04.799 --> 00:12:24.399 So I didn't realize though that years of patterns uh were destroying me slowly, piece by piece, chipping away at my identity, at my confidence, at everything that I thought I was striving to be. 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:27.039 Until counseling and journaling. 00:12:27.679 --> 00:12:45.919 Those helped me finally figure that's that's the answer to your question is counseling and and journaling has brought me to this uh healing that I experience on a daily basis to this day, because it it's never gonna go away, the damage, the the behaviors. 00:12:46.159 --> 00:12:51.519 It's something that we replace with better, healthier habits. 00:12:52.399 --> 00:13:01.600 So, but the other other habits, the brain is always gonna remember that and try to go back to it because it's known that pattern for the longest. 00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:05.919 And I have to, you know, keep learning coping skills. 00:13:06.080 --> 00:13:15.039 But the coping skill for me, the pleaser, uh, is that I use the pain for purpose, I use it like fuel. 00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:19.759 You know, and I realize that at a very young age, like eighth grade. 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:27.759 I realize I have this energy, this resource that if I learn how to tap into it, I can use it to improve my situation. 00:13:28.879

--> 00:13:32.080 Yeah, use it to protect you in ways that are really useful. 00:13:32.799 --> 00:13:33.440 A couple of things. 00:13:33.679 --> 00:13:36.879 One is how did you know that you needed therapy? 00:13:36.960 --> 00:13:56.080 Was there a particular point at which you came that oh, and I did want to comment on you said you you keep you still see your therapist to keep you in line, and I still see my practitioner, but I think of it more as just the support that I need because being a human being is very difficult. 00:13:56.559 --> 00:13:58.879 It's it's tricky being a human being. 00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:15.039 And I think in the culture in which we find ourselves, there's so much disconnection, and we're disconnected from one another, from ourselves, from nature, from whatever you think of as God or spirit or mystery or whatever that might be. 00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:29.759 I know you have thoughts on that, that I think sometimes, yeah, having that professional objective person in my corner who knows me so well after so long working together is incredibly supportive. 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:44.320 And then I am able to, and it sounds like what you're saying with the keep me in line, I'm able to bring my self-leadership to bear upon myself and keep myself together, kind of thing. 00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:47.360 Because we really don't want to see. 00:14:47.679 --> 00:14:50.320 I mean, that's why we keep busy. 00:14:50.559 --> 00:14:54.559 We don't want to see what we deep down we already know. 00:14:54.799 --> 00:14:57.279 We just want to ignore it because it's in the way. 00:14:57.519 --> 00:15:00.240 It's in my way, so I'm not gonna look at it. 00:15:00.559 --> 00:15:02.799 But we have to look at it so that we're gonna be able to do it. 00:15:02.960 --> 00:15:03.519 We have to. 00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:04.080 Yeah. 00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:06.159 And some of us do like to. 00:15:06.559 --> 00:15:07.440 I like to. 00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:12.080 But that's because it's just the the water I swim in and the work that I love so much. 00:15:12.159 --> 00:15:17.279 And I cannot show up well for my clients if I'm not doing the work myself. 00:15:17.440 --> 00:15:27.120 I know that's true for you too, that you would never attempt to do the work that you do and the speaking that you do without having actually done the work. 00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:33.360 Which brings me back to the question of at what point did you know these patterns kind of crept up on you? 00:15:33.519 --> 00:15:35.840 You didn't really know there was a problem. 00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:37.120 How did you know? 00:15:37.279 --> 00:15:38.320 When did you know? 00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:46.559 And then not only how and when did you know, what was that point, but what enabled you to then reach out for support? 00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:51.519 Well, it's kind of it's it was an accident, actually. 00:15:51.759 --> 00:16:03.600 Well, not an accident, but my one of my corporate jobs, uh my manager was

sexually harassing me with all the other women in the department. 00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:07.279 And so uh we all, you know, complained about it. 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:17.679 And so the uh human resources pretty much said, we're not gonna fire him because we have to have him written or some some technical reason. 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:23.679 So he was still basically gonna be our boss, but they offered us free counseling for as long as we needed it. 00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:30.080 And I was a single mom at the time, and I did good to pay my rent and buy food. 00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:33.840 And so I thought, well, it's free. 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:35.279 You know, I'll just go. 00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:36.799 I don't think I need it. 00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:40.320 I don't know what talking to someone is going to do for me. 00:16:40.399 --> 00:16:42.720 It's not gonna change my situation. 00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:48.639 You know, and plus, you know I had a lot of private thoughts. 00:16:48.799 --> 00:16:53.840 And at that time, unfortunately, Carla, I was considering taking my life. 00:16:54.320 --> 00:17:09.680 I strongly like had a plan because I didn't think I thought my son uh deserved a better life and I didn't think that I was that and so I thought, well, hearing I'm thinking about suicide. 00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:10.880 I'm thinking about taking my life. 00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:13.920 I guess I'll go talk to her or to a therapist. 00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:20.400 And the first day I met her, I was very defensive and had a wall up. 00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:26.400 And God must have sent her because she was so down to earth. 00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:28.319 You remind me of her, by the way. 00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:33.200 But she was just really sweet and kind and patient. 00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:36.240 Now that first appointment, it and it's in my book. 00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:36.880 It's so funny. 00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:45.519 I talk that's how I open the entire story is by being in my first counseling session and when I meet her. 00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:56.000 But she did encourage me to journal in between sessions so we could talk about what was happening, you know, in my life while she wasn't there. 00:17:56.400 --> 00:18:01.440 And I thought, I'm a single mom working three jobs, I don't have time to journal. 00:18:01.839 --> 00:18:02.480 You know. 00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:07.279 But I thought she goes, just just do one or two sentences, Pam, a day. 00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:08.799 Just give it a shot. 00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:10.880 And then let's talk about it. 00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:19.200 And it's so funny because the f the first appointment I had, I did it just to because she said it would help. 00:18:19.839 --> 00:18:22.000 And I really resented it, but I did it. 00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:28.160 And she opened it up and she was reading it and she's like, Do you realize there's a pattern here? 00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:29.680 Because it was two weeks. 00:18:29.920 -->

00:18:32.079 And I said, A pattern, what do you mean? 00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:39.440 She goes, Well, every time you have to do whatever it was, you know, she goes, This is what you end up doing. 00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:41.920 This is the result, this is the reaction. 00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:49.519 And that's the first time I thought, oh, I would never have remembered how I felt two weeks ago if unless I had journaled it. 00:18:49.759 --> 00:18:55.039 So then I started journaling all the time because it was like therapy for me. 00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:58.799 It was it was helping me to put it on paper. 00:18:59.039 --> 00:19:06.000 And you know, a lot of people like, oh, I don't want to journal, I'll just do digital journaling or talk text, my journal. 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:07.440 Like it's not the same. 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:07.839 No. 00:19:08.079 --> 00:19:08.480 You know? 00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:16.640 It is not the same because we when you put a pen to paper, we literally process what's going on. 00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:19.119 I mean when we speak it, that's why we go to counseling. 00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:23.279 We speak it, it's uh just Yes. 00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:26.160 And it's completely different though. 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:37.279 And it also led I see ever I see God's work in all of this because it the journal, I I use my journal notes in my book, my best-selling uh memoir. 00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:43.119 Every few chapters I have journal notes, my raw journal notes showing the brokenness. 00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:45.920 And then the following chapters show what caused it. 00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:47.759 It's like time jumping. 00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:55.359 But uh, you know, journaling is what made me realize my love for writing. 00:19:55.759 --> 00:20:00.400 I didn't ri ever think that I would be a writer, but now I can't live without it. 00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:01.680 Here you are. 00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:14.240 It's so interesting to me how you were a single mom working three jobs, having suicidal ideation, and you didn't think you didn't think you needed to go to a therapist. 00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:27.519 And I think it's I I mean, and I'm not laughing at you, I'm just it is humorous when we step back and think about it, that we somehow think we live in such an individualistic culture. 00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:29.920 And listen, I'm an individualist. 00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:32.559 I am, I am, you know, I I am. 00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:38.319 And we are too individualistic in my uh in my mind. 00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:47.039 And and we don't, you know, 98% of our ancestors lived in small communities who had help. 00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:49.680 No one raised a child by themselves. 00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:50.880 No one did. 00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:55.039 And we think we can't go get some support. 00:20:55.440 --> 00:21:16.880 And especially, I think, I don't know about especially, but I I think maybe especially really successful people somehow think it would be a uh a weakness, which is one of the reasons I want to do this podcast is because I want people, I want to normalize the fact that no matter how successful you are, no matter how good you look on the outside, we all need support. 00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:18.640 We all need connection. 00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:22.720 And so I love that you allowed yourself that. 00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:34.480 And and it's so interesting to me too, Pam, that you walked in there with such a wall because you're one of the most open people and so easy and comfortable to be with. 00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:41.440 And it was uh just for for the for our listeners, I'm using a different platform to record today. 00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:53.039 And I was so happy that Pam was going to be the first person I did this with because I knew that if there was anything that went wrong, Pam would be completely flexible and and fine with it. 00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:56.000 Not to mention that she knows how to deal with this platform. 00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:57.519 So I am. 00:21:57.759 --> 00:22:09.119 I can just see just from The little while that I've known you, how how hard you've worked and and how much work you've done and how different you are as a result. 00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:20.000 And I would also want to say to my listeners that I have all kinds of clients, and you probably do too, who don't have the kind of trauma that Pam had growing up. 00:22:20.160 --> 00:22:25.680 And that doesn't mean that support is not welcome and needed and helpful. 00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:27.759 Oh, exactly. 00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:48.640 I mean, my goodness, I know when we're very young, as young as five, I mean, even younger, five, six years old, we are literally being brainwashed on what our jobs are as women, what's expected of us, what we can do, what we can't do because we're women. 00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:53.839 And there's a lot of uh dysfunction in that. 00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:59.119 There's a lot of damage that can be done that we carry, you know, into adulthood. 00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:14.240 And a lot of times people like when I started journaling, I I didn't realize that I wasn't I wasn't reacting to what was happening in front of me. 00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:19.039 I was reacting to patterns I'd been carrying for decades. 00:23:19.599 --> 00:23:23.680 And that and that's really where delay the binge began, you know. 00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:27.200 It wasn't a podcast or a framework. 00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:30.400 It was a personal discovery. 00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:36.880 I found that between what happened to me and how I responded, there was a pause. 00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:39.200 And in that pause, I had a choice. 00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:41.839 Because most of my life I felt like I had no choice. 00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:43.920 No choice in any, no control. 00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:50.319 And so I became obsessed with having control, trying to have a choice. 00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:59.200 But every

choice I made took me down a worse path, you know, and I thought I was thinking clearly, but I really wasn't. 00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:03.440 Well, our, you know, our patterns, as you mentioned, you weren't aware of your patterns. 00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:15.119 So many of our patterns are unconscious until we intentionally take time to look at them and and understand them and find them, you know, and that's the work that you've done, that's the work that I've done. 00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:19.039 And as as a child, you literally didn't have much control. 00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:21.119 You you did not. 00:24:21.440 --> 00:24:25.599 And the problem is those patterns get baked in right then and there. 00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:33.279 And then that's the part of us, that young part that did not have a choice, and a pause didn't really matter that much. 00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:40.720 It was a matter of choosing which way am I going to survive here in the in the midst of this kind of abuse. 00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:45.920 And that gets baked into us, and then that part becomes unconscious in us. 00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:54.240 And then that part is what we collapse into when we hit something that reminds us of that as an as an adult. 00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:58.160 I use the example of my mother was an alcoholic. 00:24:58.319 --> 00:25:02.000 If you were right now, Pam, listeners has glasses and so do I. 00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:14.079 But Pam, if you were to bring your glasses down to the end of your nose and look over your glasses at me in the past, I would have started to get anxious. 00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:16.160 Just that little simple thing. 00:25:16.319 --> 00:25:18.000 Like, who, what in the world? 00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:20.640 And I didn't know why. 00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:23.200 And and it's such a simple thing. 00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:26.880 And it's those little tiny things that can trigger memories. 00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:32.720 And the reason is that that's what my mother would do when she started to get drunk. 00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:37.200 She would pull her glasses down and she would look at me and talk to me over her glasses. 00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:42.559 And that's how I knew she was getting drunk, and that's how I knew that I was getting less safe. 00:25:42.799 --> 00:25:46.480 Now that doesn't happen to me with that anymore, but there are other triggers. 00:25:46.559 --> 00:25:58.799 Those kinds of things can happen, and we don't even know why until we investigate them, which is why it's so important that we do, and then to help those younger parts of us to heal from that trauma. 00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:00.559 Exactly. 00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:08.000 And it's so sad because so many people, not just women, are unaware that they have these issues. 00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:08.400 Right. 00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:15.440 They just think it's a result of something happening to them, you know, and they ignore it. 00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:18.400 But then it it starts happening over and over. 00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:24.799 Or the exhaustion is taking a toll on you mentally, but also physically. 00:26:25.119 --> 00:26:29.440 It can literally destroy your health. 00:26:29.839 --> 00:26:34.000 And, you know, I just want to help people become aware. 00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:41.119 And that's my mission in life, is just to tell people, look, people look inside. 00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:52.960 There's a reason that when your kids are grown and gone and you retire with all the money in the world from a successful job, and you still feel nothing inside. 00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:54.319 You feel empty. 00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:56.000 There's a reason for that. 00:26:56.160 --> 00:27:08.960 It's because you've ignored your identity this whole time doing, getting everything done, trying to reach goals and expectations that weren't really something you'd do if you were the person you were meant to be. 00:27:09.279 --> 00:27:11.920 And you and and they've done it innocently. 00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:12.640 Yes. 00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:12.960 Yeah. 00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:14.240 You know, it's innocent. 00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:25.440 Number one, they don't know about their patterns because we weren't taught in this culture how to find that, how to, how to look that way at ourselves, to look inside and to understand ourselves. 00:27:25.759 --> 00:27:32.640 And then through the wiring of our brains, as you talk about, those patterns have become, it's, it's just the water we swim in. 00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:35.599 It's so embodied that we don't even think about it. 00:27:35.839 --> 00:27:54.400 It's it's like I've said several times, I'm not proud of this, but I can remember in my 20s driving in a blackout and getting home safely because my body, I was so embodied, I knew how to drive so fully that I didn't, my mind didn't really need to be that present. 00:27:54.720 --> 00:28:10.000 And that's the kind of thing, you know, the those neural pathways are so deep, as you talked about, that um, you know, we have to stop walking those pathways so they can grow over and start walking new pathways until they're deep. 00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:10.880 Exactly. 00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:12.400 It's called autopilot. 00:28:12.559 --> 00:28:12.960 Mm-hmm. 00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:13.440 Yes. 00:28:13.680 --> 00:28:18.799 We are all living our lives on autopilot because I I'm a retired youth minister. 00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:26.960 So I can't tell you how obvious it is that these young people do not have a voice. 00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:31.359 I remember when I'd get the little sixth graders in, that's where they would start. 00:28:31.599 --> 00:28:34.880 They would raise, I'd say, you know, what is something you're all struggling with? 00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:36.240 I just want to get to know you. 00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:39.359 They would all raise their hand and say, We feel like robots. 00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:40.799 Like, what do you mean? 00:28:41.039 -->

00:28:49.440 Well, we have to ask if we can go to the bathroom, we have to be told that we can talk, we can't do anything on our own. 00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:52.559 You know, and that was just a huge lesson in itself. 00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:56.240 But they really don't feel like they are given a voice. 00:28:56.480 --> 00:29:08.160 And if you want to help a young person, you give them a voice and really listen to what they're trying to tell you because they're just searching, trying to find themselves, trying to figure things out. 00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:12.079 But if you don't give them the freedom to do that, well, it's not going to happen. 00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:24.160 They're going to become autopilot all the time because they're doing what they're supposed they think they're supposed to do, what's expected, and trying to reach goals set by parents. 00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:29.839 And because parents want what's best for their kids, it's not from lack of that. 00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:38.400 It's just uh let's explore, let's find out what what makes you happy, what gives you light, you know? 00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:51.440 And social media, I think, has made it so much worse, especially for the kids, but but even for adults, you know, this is how this is what success looks like, this is what beauty looks like, and it's this way or it's not there. 00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:54.960 And I think it's incredibly, incredibly dangerous. 00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:59.680 So, Pam, what changed once you started this journaling? 00:29:59.839 --> 00:30:05.920 You started the counseling, you started to bring those walls down, you started to let someone in. 00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:07.680 What changed for you? 00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:22.240 Um feeling unworthy, uh fear, shame, guilt in every aspect because I wasn't I wasn't ever told that I was worthy. 00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:24.880 And so I believed the lies. 00:30:25.359 --> 00:30:32.000 So going to counseling helped me realize I'm a pretty good person. 00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:47.440 And once I started looking at what Pam was really about, and you know, comforting little Pam, you know, telling her, you are worthy, you know, you are a beautiful soul, have a wonderful heart. 00:30:47.680 --> 00:30:55.599 I'll never forget I have to share this with you because this is the whole reason I started a podcast, it wasn't always delay the binge. 00:30:55.759 --> 00:30:57.920 It was called the Plus One Theory Podcast. 00:30:58.000 --> 00:30:59.599 And it was all about kindness. 00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:13.519 Because growing up in that situation, you're a a dirty, filthy little rug rat that's starving, and we would steal food and we were like hor little bad urchins out on the street. 00:31:13.839 --> 00:31:17.599 So people, you know, didn't like us being around. 00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:20.160 And we weren't seen, we weren't heard. 00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:26.880 But there are a handful of people of adults that did see me and that they did hear me. 00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:33.200 And I'll never forget the first time I spent the night with a a friend of mine in third grade. 00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:36.880 That's when I realized people not everyone lived like I did. 00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:41.119 She she lived in what I thought was like Cinderella's castle, you know. 00:31:41.359 --> 00:31:52.559 It smelled so clean, and there were no roaches running around, and she had a mom and a dad that had beautiful dinners set on the table, and there was food, food, food. 00:31:53.119 --> 00:31:54.799 And her mom, Mrs. 00:31:54.880 --> 00:31:59.279 Kelly, I'll never forget, I opened my little suitcase, my little bag, and roaches ran out. 00:31:59.599 --> 00:32:03.519 And so they her and my friend were screaming and stomping on them. 00:32:03.759 --> 00:32:05.680 Oh and it was heartbreaking. 00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:07.599 I didn't know. 00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:10.079 I thought everybody had bugs. 00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:18.079 You know, and so I that's the first time I ever felt shame because I knew it was something I brought in that they didn't like. 00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:21.759 And so I started packing my bag because I thought I had to leave. 00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:31.119 Miss Kelly takes my bag, takes my hand, she walks me to the back of the house where the laundry room was, and she puts all my clothes and my little cloth bag and the washer. 00:32:31.279 --> 00:32:33.519 And she turns around and I'm crying. 00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:45.920 And she kneels down and she looks me right in the eye and she says, Pam, don't ever let what's on the outside determine what's on the inside. 00:32:46.160 --> 00:32:48.640 She goes, I see a light in you, sweetheart. 00:32:48.799 --> 00:32:51.680 She goes, I can't wait to see what you do with it. 00:32:53.519 --> 00:33:02.079 And that's the first time that anybody had ever, you know, given me any worth, any value. 00:33:03.200 --> 00:33:04.880 And there were so many other instances. 00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:09.119 It's in the book where she um showed up for me a lot. 00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:10.000 Unexpected. 00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:11.440 How old were you then? 00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:12.640 I was in third grade. 00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:13.039 Okay. 00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:14.240 Nine-ish. 00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:15.200 Mm-hmm. 00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:16.400 Wow. 00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:27.039 So that's what co-regulation does for a person when you talk about that that she was the first person who looked you in the eye. 00:33:27.200 --> 00:33:32.400 That connection was so incredibly powerful for you. 00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:37.599 And to this day, I still strive to be a mom just like her. 00:33:37.759 --> 00:33:40.480 I that's how much it impacted me. 00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:55.759 That moment where I that's my point is kindness is like a superpower because in compassion, if you if you share kindness or even to receive it, it impacts both the giver and the receiver forever.

00:33:56.000 --> 00:33:57.039 And it heals. 00:33:57.119 --> 00:33:59.359 It literally heals you to be kind. 00:33:59.519 --> 00:33:59.759 Yeah. 00:33:59.920 --> 00:34:00.880 We're designed for that. 00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:02.000 We're meant to be kind. 00:34:02.240 --> 00:34:07.920 And and I think she was kind to you and she connected to you, but she saw you. 00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:08.480 Yeah. 00:34:08.719 --> 00:34:15.679 She really saw, she saw the outside, she saw the roaches, and she saw the light in you. 00:34:16.159 --> 00:34:18.639 And she called out that light in you. 00:34:19.360 --> 00:34:23.199 And that was a life-changing moment for you. 00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:25.360 Yeah, it still brings tears to my eyes. 00:34:25.519 --> 00:34:25.679 Yeah. 00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:27.440 It really impacted me. 00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:31.599 And there were other moments too where adults impacted me. 00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:35.039 But um and and you know, every day I strive to be just like they were. 00:34:35.199 --> 00:34:36.320 They are, or they were. 00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:37.519 They're no longer with us. 00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:40.960 But so you started your counseling, you brought your walls down. 00:34:41.039 --> 00:34:42.079 What changed? 00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:44.880 My whole world opened up. 00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:47.599 I became a better mom. 00:34:48.079 --> 00:34:54.880 And, you know, my son was the reason for me working so hard. 00:34:54.960 --> 00:34:57.840 I I didn't want him to grow up with a single parent. 00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:05.440 I mean, it was a nightmare to me to be repeating something that had happened to me because I didn't want him to have anything like what I had. 00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:08.000 I loved him so much. 00:35:09.039 --> 00:35:11.199 I mean, I just he was my world. 00:35:11.360 --> 00:35:16.079 I mean, to me, I thought taking my life would be helping him. 00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:23.840 But then I realized selfishly, he was just f a light in my life that I couldn't let go. 00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:30.559 And I didn't want him to grow up remembering that his mom took her life because she didn't feel value. 00:35:30.800 --> 00:35:32.559 I didn't want him to have to deal with that. 00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:36.719 So I he's literally the reason I did not do that in counseling. 00:35:36.880 --> 00:35:49.920 But counseling enabled me to see that, wow, I, you know, I do have value and I can make a difference in this world um because of my gifts, because of the light. 00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:56.559 And I just I found a lot of value in helping other people see this as well. 00:35:57.599 --> 00:35:59.119 And so that's what changed. 00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:13.519 It it opened up my whole world and I I started attracting better people in my life and, you know, that saw value in me, that saw me for who I really was, and and I just didn't know who I really was. 00:36:13.760 --> 00:36:18.880 So it opened up, you know, the of the the world of discovering Pam. 00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:21.039 What does she love to do? 00:36:21.199 --> 00:36:23.280 Well, she loves to be a mom right now. 00:36:24.159 --> 00:36:32.880 You know, and I would just take it the plus one theory is all about taking small intentional steps instead of trying to do it really big all at once. 00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:39.920 So I would just take small little steps, you know, to um finishing stronger than I started. 00:36:41.039 --> 00:36:47.199 Yeah, and those small steps are what create a really firm foundation beneath your feet. 00:36:47.440 --> 00:36:49.360 Wow, that's very powerful. 00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:53.039 Pam, your memoir came out of your own counseling journals. 00:36:53.199 --> 00:36:55.440 Most people keep that material private. 00:36:56.000 --> 00:36:58.239 What made you decide to publish it? 00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:09.280 Because I don't I I realize people needed to understand where I'm coming from. 00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:14.639 Why uh I wanted them to believe what I was saying to them. 00:37:15.199 --> 00:37:30.320 Uh and I needed to s tell my story so I felt like it like it would help me heal and help people that might be going through something similar, you know, see that they're not the only ones. 00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:37.840 I mean, honestly, when I first published the book, I thought I was one of few, Carla, that grew up like that. 00:37:38.239 --> 00:37:40.960 And after it it still brings tears to my eyes. 00:37:41.199 --> 00:37:47.280 People were reaching out to me after I published it saying, Oh my gosh, this happened to me too. 00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:49.599 Thank you for publishing that, Pam. 00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:52.800 It really helped me see, have hope. 00:37:53.599 --> 00:38:03.199 And man, talk about healing to know that what happened to me has enabled me to help others. 00:38:03.920 --> 00:38:08.239 So if people ask me all the time, how did you turn out like this when you grew up like that? 00:38:08.559 --> 00:38:12.079 And I'm like, I am like this because I grew up like that. 00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:24.320 I started placing not happiness, I mean, I wouldn't wish that on anyone, but I could use it, right, and make it work for me and for most importantly other people. 00:38:26.480 --> 00:38:35.360 Did the writing surface things that the therapy didn't or that your coaching work or speaking work doesn't? 00:38:35.679 --> 00:38:38.079 Yes, it helped me uh heal. 00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:41.360 My mother was a big part of the problem. 00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:45.840 And there are I have three brothers and three sisters. 00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:46.800 There's seven of us. 00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:47.599 Wow. 00:38:48.079 --> 00:38:55.440 And none of them were willing to help my mother when she reached a point in her life that she had to have help. 00:38:56.239 --> 00:39:00.639 And I took care of her the last ten years of her life. 00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:06.639 I paid her bills, I made sure she

had care, you know, I made sure she had groceries every week. 00:39:06.719 --> 00:39:09.599 I did everything for her that I wish she had done for me. 00:39:10.159 --> 00:39:12.800 And at first I was like, she doesn't deserve this. 00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:14.800 You know, she didn't do it for me. 00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:20.639 But then I realized that I could break the cycle that's generational. 00:39:20.719 --> 00:39:24.559 I mean, her mom and dad, you know, they all it it just goes way back generations. 00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:30.559 This attitude, this way they have with with their kids. 00:39:31.599 --> 00:39:33.920 And I said, I'm gonna break it here. 00:39:34.239 --> 00:39:35.840 Literally, break the wheel. 00:39:36.079 --> 00:39:38.400 And so I took care of her the last 10 years of her life. 00:39:38.480 --> 00:39:48.800 But in that 10-year period, um I was finally able to talk to her about how I felt about growing up. 00:39:49.360 --> 00:39:56.079 She was still deni in denial or had a reason for being gone for two or three weeks at a time. 00:39:56.559 --> 00:39:59.440 She said she was working, but it didn't matter to me. 00:39:59.679 --> 00:40:08.639 I was able to voice to her, you know, what it how it affected me, what it did to me as a person, as a human being, as a woman. 00:40:09.039 --> 00:40:14.559 And we made up we made up for I mean, we became very close. 00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:17.519 She did say, I'm so sorry, sweetheart. 00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:20.400 She goes, 'Cause I love you to the end of the ends of the earth. 00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:21.840 You're my daughter. 00:40:22.159 --> 00:40:28.880 She goes, and I knew as soon as you were born with a smile on your face that, you know, you would bring joy into many people's lives. 00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:31.280 I mean, who knows you better, right, than your mom? 00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:36.800 Even in the worst circumstances, you know, your mother is your mother. 00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:51.519 And so that really brought me to a such a higher, better place of helping people because I was able to heal that part, that little pan that was hurting and wanting your mom. 00:40:51.840 --> 00:40:53.280 So every day I had my mom. 00:40:53.440 --> 00:40:54.079 It was hard. 00:40:54.239 --> 00:40:59.440 I'm telling you, taking care of an of an adult, of your parent is challenging. 00:40:59.679 --> 00:41:08.880 But I was so when she passed, there's a I write short stories as PJ Hamilton, and I I post them every Tuesday, and it's free. 00:41:08.960 --> 00:41:11.679 So anybody that wants to check that out, they can. 00:41:11.920 --> 00:41:14.880 But it's about memories from growing up in East Texas. 00:41:15.039 --> 00:41:18.880 Some of them are hilarious, and some of them are very emotional. 00:41:19.039 --> 00:41:23.519 And I wrote this one story called The Button because she was a seamstress. 00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:29.840 And the story basically is talking about how when I was little, I'd go through this

tin, all these buttons. 00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:32.559 It was just fun just running my fingers through them. 00:41:32.800 --> 00:41:36.000 And I found this one button that was gold and white. 00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:39.119 So I carried it around with me my whole life. 00:41:39.519 --> 00:41:42.159 It was with me through thick and thin. 00:41:42.480 --> 00:41:46.719 And one day I lost it, and I thought I lost a part of me, but I found it. 00:41:46.960 --> 00:41:51.679 Anyway, so when she finally passed away, I'll share this with everyone. 00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:53.599 I put that button in her hand. 00:41:55.119 --> 00:41:58.559 And I realized that she was the button. 00:41:59.360 --> 00:42:00.320 That was her. 00:42:01.039 --> 00:42:03.119 That's what it symbolized for you. 00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:03.840 Mm-hmm. 00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:07.760 And I see I see how touched you are as you remember that. 00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:08.639 Yeah. 00:42:08.960 --> 00:42:11.920 And no one ever knew about the button until I wrote a story about it. 00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:14.079 And it's one of my most popular stories. 00:42:14.239 --> 00:42:15.840 People love that story. 00:42:16.159 --> 00:42:20.719 So anybody watching or listening, go read the button at PJ Hamilton's. 00:42:21.039 --> 00:42:27.599 I did something similar with my dad, but for only two years, taking care of him the last two years of his life when he got lung cancer. 00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:33.519 And we healed unexpectedly, which I never, ever dreamed possible. 00:42:33.760 --> 00:42:37.920 And what I recognize is it's because I finally accepted him as he was. 00:42:38.159 --> 00:42:43.440 He couldn't do it any, any, any differently than he did based on how he grew up. 00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:49.360 He just he just couldn't, or he wouldn't, or I don't know how to think about it, but I knew that he wasn't capable. 00:42:49.519 --> 00:42:59.840 And once I dropped my expectations of him being the kind of father I wanted, then somehow we were able to enjoy each other in a way that I had never enjoyed before. 00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:08.880 I mean, little things that I wouldn't have let myself enjoy before because I was so mad at him for not being who I wanted him to be. 00:43:09.119 --> 00:43:10.480 And he hadn't hurt me. 00:43:10.559 --> 00:43:13.119 You know, I mean, at the same time, he he did hurt me. 00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:25.199 You talked about your mother is your mother, and yes, your mother is your mother, and I knew my mother loved me, but I never felt that she truly saw me, that any of them ever truly saw me. 00:43:25.280 --> 00:43:28.400 And I think we want to be seen. 00:43:28.719 --> 00:43:33.360 We want and need to be truly and deeply seen. 00:43:33.679 --> 00:43:36.239 And that that Miss Lily, what was her name? 00:43:36.400 --> 00:43:36.960 Miss Kelly. 00:43:37.119 --> 00:43:39.119 Miss Kelly saw you. 00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:40.320 She saw you. 00:43:40.400 --> 00:43:44.880 And there's so much healing in in being seen clearly. 00:43:45.920 --> 00:43:54.079 I'm so grateful that you got that, that you got seen, and that you're getting seen more and more and more. 00:43:54.320 --> 00:44:01.519 Despite all of this work that you've done with your with your therapist and that you've done in your journaling and all the work that you've done on yourself. 00:44:01.760 --> 00:44:02.400 What is it? 00:44:02.639 --> 00:44:07.039 This is a little more vulnerable question, but what is it that you still can't quite shake? 00:44:08.159 --> 00:44:11.920 Um, overworking and over pleasing is very difficult for me. 00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:20.400 I'll I'll sacrifice I I don't even like for the longest time, I didn't know what my favorite color was or my favorite food. 00:44:20.559 --> 00:44:22.880 I knew what my husband's favorite food and color is. 00:44:23.039 --> 00:44:25.599 I knew what my kids' favorite food and color was. 00:44:25.840 --> 00:44:27.599 It didn't matter what mine was. 00:44:28.400 --> 00:44:38.159 I just wanted to please them and make sure they felt seen and heard and loved so much that I lost sight of myself. 00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:49.760 And I I'll never for I I realized it when I started writing because a lot of the childhood memories that are in that book I'd forgotten. 00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:52.719 I guess I intentionally pushed them away. 00:44:52.880 --> 00:44:56.079 I didn't want to think about all of those details. 00:44:56.239 --> 00:44:57.280 And it was difficult. 00:44:57.360 --> 00:45:02.000 It was like going back there after I'd healed or recovered from something. 00:45:02.159 --> 00:45:06.719 You know, and then you have to go back to this crime scene and revisit it all. 00:45:07.360 --> 00:45:11.199 And at first I was having a terrible time with it. 00:45:11.599 --> 00:45:34.239 But I still struggle with um overpleasing at whatever cost to myself and um overperforming because to me any of my what I view as weaknesses um well my therapist explained to me I do it because I want to make sure nobody abandons me. 00:45:34.639 --> 00:45:40.159 I want to make sure they need me and love me or want me so much that they can't leave. 00:45:40.559 --> 00:45:46.880 They're going to rely on me so much that, you know, it's a guarantee it's control. 00:45:47.840 --> 00:45:50.960 And so I have to be aware of that and I still struggle with it. 00:45:51.199 --> 00:46:06.000 Because especially in this what I'm doing now, you know, the podcast and writing uh short stories and I'm working on two other books I so desperately want to help people. 00:46:06.159 --> 00:46:09.440 That's just a given and I don't know if anybody is there. 00:46:09.519 --> 00:46:20.320 I don't know what your faith is but a lot of times I think each of us has a strand, just a strand of of our of God in us and that's our gift. 00:46:20.719 --> 00:46:30.400 And there I think I have a very rare one which is to love people unconditionally and I don't expect anything in

return. 00:46:30.639 --> 00:46:33.119 I really don't I keep trying to tell my therapist this. 00:46:33.280 --> 00:46:35.679 So I'm not doing it to make sure they need me. 00:46:35.920 --> 00:46:52.159 I'm over that I I have come past that but I just have this urge to I just want them to know that they're loved and accepted whoever it is and it's a very strong desire in me and I think that's my strand. 00:46:53.039 --> 00:46:58.719 And I don't do it for any reason except to I mean I don't expect them to return it. 00:46:59.199 --> 00:47:07.119 So many people in my life I've given so much of myself to have turned on me and hurt me and rejected me. 00:47:07.519 --> 00:47:09.119 But I wasn't bitter about it. 00:47:09.280 --> 00:47:12.800 I just said well at least I got to love on them for a little while. 00:47:13.039 --> 00:47:19.920 I mean it does bother me that I can't they won't let me in to love on them because I think they need it. 00:47:21.519 --> 00:47:34.320 But I truly, truly do like to help people but I can go overboard you know yes yeah and I appreciate your vulnerability there our love is a gift. 00:47:34.559 --> 00:47:41.280 Some gifts are not received and if it truly is a gift then then we have to accept when it's not received. 00:47:41.440 --> 00:47:51.280 And it sounds like that's something that you have learned and while it's it's not pleasant when you offer such a beautiful gift and and the person doesn't want it. 00:47:52.159 --> 00:47:57.519 But it's sort of like that when you first showed up in your therapist office and you had all those walls up that's all that's happening. 00:47:57.679 --> 00:48:05.760 People just have their walls because they're trying to say stay safe and it doesn't feel safe to receive the gift of your love at that time. 00:48:05.920 --> 00:48:13.679 So um yeah really really interesting and I do hear and feel your passion to help people. 00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:14.239 Yes. 00:48:14.480 --> 00:48:17.199 And I appreciate that because we we need that. 00:48:17.280 --> 00:48:23.679 And there are those people who want your love and what you have to offer they are they are there. 00:48:24.239 --> 00:48:35.280 Pam what would you want someone listening to know if they're still carrying everything alone that you're not alone there is help out there. 00:48:35.440 --> 00:49:27.599 First of first and most importantly if you're feeling alone or having any type of suicidal thoughts or you're just depressed I always tell people depression because I suffer from it a lot depression is like being in this dark well and you have no way out the walls are slick and you can't get out that's what deep depression or sadness feels like it feels hopeless like there's no way out but all you gotta do is look up and there's bright sky there and there there could be someone to throw you a rope but you have to let them know you have to vocalize that you're in the well so I guess you know just know there are so many people like me willing to

help you come out of it. 00:49:27.679 --> 00:49:29.840 And it and it doesn't happen overnight. 00:49:30.079 --> 00:49:34.480 It didn't take just a quick little jog for you to get there. 00:49:34.880 --> 00:49:41.760 And it's a process and but I'm not the only one with with a program out there or support. 00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:58.960 But the best thing you can do is to involve yourself in a community of some sort whether it be your you know a local neighborhood anything there's all kinds of things you could do but find just one person that's going to believe in support in you. 00:49:59.119 --> 00:50:00.239 And you can find them. 00:50:00.320 --> 00:50:17.039 They're out there and I want to acknowledge I agree and I want to acknowledge how incredibly frightening that making that move can be having been suffered from great depression and anxiety myself. 00:50:17.199 --> 00:50:31.280 It sounds simple and I don't want people to think that it's true what you're saying and it's terrifying in certain cases, especially when you have reached out and been rejected or been swatted down. 00:50:31.440 --> 00:50:46.000 I think it's fair to say that that yeah be discerning when you reach out there it it there are people out there who want to hurt and who don't have your best interest at heart. 00:50:46.800 --> 00:50:59.119 I don't think Pam is saying that it's easy but it is possible and and I want people to know that it is possible even if it's terrifying it is possible. 00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:34.480 Yeah and you know I do want to say you're not broken and it's not a matter of of discipline or willpower for you to make a change but I mean don't rush you you smile slow down and remember that your past doesn't define you it prepares you and start believing in yourself because if you're alone the first person is you need to find yourself. 00:51:34.800 --> 00:51:51.440 And Carla I always tell people I have a a story it's called the hidden mountain it's like your Buddha story but it's different in a way where we're life is like a mountain that we're climbing constantly you know the journey just trying to get to the top to the summit. 00:51:51.920 --> 00:52:05.920 Guess what if you don't look around and and focus on the journey that you're taking and and use whatever's happening to you for energy and fuel when you get to the top it's not going to be what you think. 00:52:06.159 --> 00:52:06.960 Because guess what? 00:52:07.119 --> 00:52:09.920 There was another mountain hiding behind that one. 00:52:10.159 --> 00:52:11.440 You're not done. 00:52:11.599 --> 00:52:28.639 All right we're never done there's always another mountain and so sometimes the summit we think we're striving for is just a temporary place for us to look at what happened in our lives and use I mean how do we learn? 00:52:28.719 --> 00:52:54.960 We learn by messing up well and I think there can come at least there has for me Pam, I don't know about you, come a point where the mountain actually even the challenge of the mountain becomes interesting and adventuresome and that there's so much joy and beauty to be found on the mountain even when even when it's hard to to move about it at times. 00:52:56.719 --> 00:53:02.079 Doesn't have to be always so hard as it was maybe at one time. 00:53:02.320 --> 00:53:09.599 Well and especially if you're aware you know get curious get some clarity yeah yeah be honest with yourself for sure. 00:53:09.840 --> 00:53:11.920 Well Pam how can people find you? 00:53:12.159 --> 00:53:27.199 Oh my goodness you can go to delay the binge dot com and that will take you to my website that has all my other work you know and it will take you to different places but delay the binge dot com is probably the easiest or pamdwyre.com. 00:53:27.360 --> 00:53:28.639 It'll take you to the same place. 00:53:28.880 --> 00:53:29.199 Okay. 00:53:29.599 --> 00:53:30.159 Thank you. 00:53:30.480 --> 00:53:50.400 Oh and about those short stories Carla I do want to bring that up if you go to newsletter.delaythebinge com it'll take you to a place where you can see all my stories and better yet sign up on my email list that really helps me reach you and keep you updated on all kinds of wonderful things. 00:53:50.719 --> 00:53:51.199 Nice. 00:53:51.519 --> 00:54:01.119 Pam, as always it's been a joy to be with you and I also see that light in you and I see your big big big big generous heart. 00:54:01.280 --> 00:54:04.800 So I thank you for being here today and and on this conversation. 00:54:05.039 --> 00:54:05.920 I appreciate you. 00:54:06.239 --> 00:54:07.280 You're so welcome. 00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:09.440 Thanks for giving me a voice today Carla. 00:54:11.039 --> 00:54:14.559 If this conversation brought someone to mind, send it to them. 00:54:14.719 --> 00:54:19.440 That's how a new show like this reaches the people it's for I'm Carla Royal. 00:54:19.599 --> 00:54:24.320 I work privately with founders and leaders on the things underneath what they are carrying. 00:54:24.559 --> 00:54:28.800 You can find me at carleroyal.com This is what holds. 00:54:28.960 --> 00:54:31.119 I'll see you back here next time