บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Matthew Jackson

00:03:00.300 --> 00:03:26.759 So there's the pepper horns, a whole bunch of other things. I wonder if it's the Treaty of why Tango isn't it the which has this sort of interesting difference from other experiences of colonial experiences, there's a sort of this, I suppose, appear like, aspect, which was then lost and which has been regained now. 00:03:22.110 --> 00:03:36.000 Which then he felt he was trying to speak to, I don't know, if you've got anything you would like to add about why it's important to you do use the pepper higher as part of your introduction in that sense as well, that macro context? 00:03:37.590 --> 00:04:23.519 Well, I mean, I'm still in a dialogue about that. Like I'm in a, I'm in a climate impact study group. And, you know, that sounds the climate impact study group that just doesn't sound doesn't have a nice ring to it, right? So we're in a dialogue. And this is a group of people in New in New Zealand and in, in the States with a study this philosophy called process or study process philosophies, otherwise known as transactional ism. And so it's a group of us, they've all been studying this philosophy for about seven or eight years. And we're all focused on global heating. I think we use the global heating instead of global warming, because frankly, it's acknowledging what's really going on. Let's be honest biodiversity, the real issue that we don't even talk about. 00:04:23.970 --> 00:04:48.569 So we're in this discussion about what do we call our group and for about half an hour, we were discussing circular economics and donut economics and stewardship and governance and I kind of got to the end of it and I just said to the group, look, we don't have words in English to describe what we're trying to do and the only word that I can think of is Conte Akutan. Right? Where, where as a kaitiaki Tang is a Kaitiaki. 00:04:48.600 --> 00:05:21.689 You're given in a given kind of guardianship and you represent that on kind of the behalf of the gods in your mind is meant to be responsible for the land and water and and and And, you know, in the current part of my journey, what I've been really agitated by is this CO opting of, of Maori language and naming. And if we were to say that we, we are Kaitiaki, Tonga, then we would just be taking something that's not ours look at exactly what's happened and colonialism, right? And so 00:05:21.778 --> 00:05:22.829 many, many times, 00:05:24.870 --> 00:06:15.240 many, many times over, right? It's fundamentally at its core, why we have all the crisis that we have at the moment, right? Just just completely disrespect of indigeneity. And the construction of old rules that create bias to, to feel to for the future, right. So but with with with looking at that, and taking responsibility for that I can engage with my Cleanaway and say, Okay, well, look, this is what we are. And so I can quite easily stand in a relationship with tau e, which is effectively Pocky. And tau e we upholding kaitiaki Turner, right? Which is a really respectful way of saying, Look, we don't, we are not it, but we will respect it. And we want to have a relationship with you so we can understand the dynamic of how we can support no matter Finola, and it's a good idea. 00:06:16.230 --> 00:07:15.149 And, you know, and it's a very safe space to have a dialogue where we don't rock up and say, Hey, we paid to go container anyway, and we support Kodiak and Tonga. And in that, they can see their relationship to us as my Finola and tovi. And, you know, I mean, this is the, probably the third year into that journey, and it started with Kobe. And for me, Pepe ha really gave me access to starting to, I guess, starting to understand my parents, and I, because I'd lost both of them, my mum passed away when I was 15. And my dad used to know when my dad when I was 15, my mom, you know, 2015 and, and pity her kind of gave me access to go and ask questions about my, my lineage and find out about my dad from his best friend and find out about my mom from sisters and, and start to take on, you know, my dad was a troublemaker, just like me. My grandfather was a serial entrepreneur, and suddenly it just gave new life to what my history was, you know? 00:07:15.509 --> 00:07:46.050 Yeah. And so we're sort of going around this first question of What did you do now? And how did you get here? So one of the things you're doing now is this climate impact group, which is a doll name for a very rich sounding experience. And you've got the alimentary system. But first, before we talk about what you're doing now, what if you were to give us a potted history of what you've been up to you? What would you what's the, what's the short version of that? 00:07:47.850 --> 00:08:53.850 Well, I think it's quite straightforward. Like my, my dad was a pastor. And my mom was a teacher, and specifically music teacher. So she, you know, she kind of taught people she gave people their voice basically. And, and enhanced health by singing and my dad, you know, it was basically responsible for pastoral care of communities. So that's where that's kind of, with with basically what we're I take my inspiration. And I was, I was lucky that my mum was a lifelong learner and got me on the internet at the age of 12. So I've worked in tech for a very long time. But while I'm very technical and early adopter, my especially my speciality is building teams and commercialising ticks. I'm a savant when it comes to a typical model. Right, so I got the opportunity. I mean, I didn't like high school on Monday may drop out, I went to uni, and I picked international marketing and business systems. 00:08:49.590 --> 00:09:03.299 And, and it's because I didn't know what I wanted to study. But those are interesting. And I still do the same work today, you know, like, that's basically commercialise disruptive technology. 00:09:03.990 --> 00:09:07.889 And the current one is elementary systems. So what is what's that about? 00:09:09.539

--> 00:09:13.769 So that an elementary system is a living system? 00:09:13.799 --> 00:09:17.730 Right? Well, thank you. You've got an elementary system you haven't been to Well, the last couple of days. 00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:26.250 It's not functioning dear listener, we will We won't tell you what's been going on with my elementary system, but it hasn't been nice. 00:09:21.960 --> 00:09:26.250 Anyway. So back to your 00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:40.559 elementary systems, right? It just is a living system. But you know, we, if you think about, if you think about what we've done with humanity is we've created the built environment to serve humans. We haven't created the environment. 00:09:41.429 --> 00:09:44.399 And we haven't treated the environment with respect, right? 00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:47.580 We haven't we haven't looked after poverty and Mother Earth. 00:09:47.610 --> 00:10:48.149 So what we're saying about an automated system is we can create living systems that can create habitual energy systems and infinite carbon loops. If we look at waste, its value rather than something Need to minimise, it's something that we can create value from. Right. So an elementary system is basically a living system that will take any organic waste source and convert it into energy and fossil free fertiliser. And so means that we don't have to put synthetic fertilisers on the ground, there's we don't have to use water. Because of those synthetic fertiliser restores biodiversity to the land, and creates a clean energy source to fund whatever system that's connected to whether there'll be a wastewater treatment plant or a replaced process heat, which pretty much most industry uses coal to a great process. So the aim is basically zero waste, zero carbon emissions, and in clean energy and restore biodiversity through this system. 00:10:48.870 --> 00:11:22.620 So it's it's waste, biological stuff in it, then there's some kind of bacteria or whatever it is that eats it up and turns it into both heat, which can be used for processes. And then into a biological output, which is a fertiliser, which can be used to grow whatever you want to grow and replace soil without needing to use synthetic fertiliser, which is often very much requiring lots of fossil fuel and other chemicals to happen. 00:11:18.750 --> 00:11:27.509 And in principle, you could do an infinite number of times, and your impact on the environment would be positive each single time. 00:11:29.460 --> 00:11:31.679 That's the that's the way we see it. 00:11:32.308 --> 00:11:37.408 And whereabouts are you at in that process? You've got the idea? 00:11:34.469 --> 00:11:41.938 And the core technology? Have you got like a pilot already underway? What was this? What stage are you at? 00:11:43.259 --> 00:12:14.850 So, so the business was started by myself and another imaginary fellow who had his pilot in India, and ran into a lot of challenges in that market. So the Edmund Hillary fellowship, so that the policy and

the finance and the, you know, work, what, what it's needed to create this type of changes policy, finance and technology. So he had the pilot technology, but there wasn't the there wasn't a policy environment in India to support what he was trying to achieve. 00:12:15.509 --> 00:13:08.159 And so came over here, and we we formed elementary systems middle of last year. And the current state as I've just got back from assessing the land for our for our first New Zealand demonstration plant. And we'll take the India pilot from 110, up to three times. And we have the first commercial offer out for a feasibility study. And we have basically selected all of the implementation partners and you know, have, I think they're really exciting work at the moment, actually, is we're putting, we've just been accepted into a Wellington climate accelerator, and we're putting together a grant to do some work with local iwi. Around if we were to create a built environment, from scratch, based on manifesto values, and it was totally read technology with much longer value research, what would it look like? So, yeah, it's, it's pretty, it's pretty cool to be 00:13:08.159 --> 00:13:11.220 doing it. 00:13:08.159 --> 00:13:15.240 And then just for those of us who aren't up on all of the terms, ie we, not everyone. 00:13:16.950 --> 00:13:26.639 So So, so Maori, Maori are the indigenous people of New Zealand, and basically, farmer is the family and how to is the community in me is their tribal group. 00:13:26.879 --> 00:13:34.379 Right? So what you're talking about is, there's the opportunity of creating from scratch a place. 00:13:34.440 --> 00:14:02.070 So built environment, which expresses those values in his design, and has at its heart that are one of the centres is the technology that you have at the elementary system. So you could have a in western terms like a circular economy, which is regenerative, but it also in other ways expresses some of those Maori values, which might get lost in the flat technical terms like circular economy. 00:14:04.558 --> 00:15:32.729 I don't think they're represented. I think traditionally, what happened is the eyes were trying to import European Technology. Yeah. And it's from an industrial revolution. And it's energy intensive. And, you know, so and in New Zealand, you know, we we do have this passive call to manage the wire, which basically says that, here we have a say, in the governance of our national borders programme. And what it does is it says, In basic and basic language, it says that we put the health of the water first, because this impacts the health of the people, and then we make the decision based on economic value. Right? Yeah. Now we for well know that if we built the system that way, then it would restore equity. And we would cost in all of the externalities that we haven't already assessed right now. I'm so I'm in conversations at the moment around. You know, if you understood the worldview of Maori, then you'd recognise that you're dealing with a god system. And actually, we exist in a society where it's, it's almost forbidden the religion of indigeneity, because of the fact that it's moved to remove spirituality from our of our language. And to me, this is part of why we're in this situation we're in because we've, we've we've seen birth as an inert substance versus investor versus a living ecosystem. Yeah. 00:15:33.509 --> 00:15:41.490 And I think that might hopefully take us on to the second question about what is the future you're trying to create? And why? 00:15:38.340 --> 00:15:51.629 Because the implication of what you just said is, it's a future where we take that spirituality seriously, we really engage with it and align ourselves and think of ourselves as part of a living Earth. 00:15:54.690 --> 00:16:04.259 Yeah, I guess. I mean, what is the feature I'm trying to create? And why the why is automatically, you know, like, I think I've 00:16:04.649 --> 00:16:11.100 tamariki being children need to keep on translating, partly for myself, but also, 00:16:13.679 --> 00:16:24.899 you know, I mean, like, how important that your kids, what are the, what is the world that we're heading? Yeah, you know, it's pretty shocking. 00:16:19.409 --> 00:17:30.450 Yeah. You know, so. So there's not, it's not much more complex than there. When I, I took, I got into the fellowship, and I had a couple of projects, and I realised that I wasn't working with the right people in the right things. And I wasn't valuable, like, I didn't have a value line investors, and I wasn't, you know, I started companies when I was a lot younger. And, you know, I wasn't value aligned with my co founders. And so, you know, as I was, I guess, courageous is probably the real world. And you understand, sometimes it's, you think it's hard to leave something until you've done it, and we realised we should have done it earlier. And so it took some time to reflect and then just really trusted my intuition around what I should do. And it was a couple of projects I looked very closely at, and just realised that wasn't the right fit. And so gave myself time and patience. And then there really isn't anything else that I could consider doing at the moment, because this is the most important work right there climate, you know, preventing the preventing global heating. 00:17:25.680 --> 00:18:36.569 And restoring biodiversity is so critical that impacts every single life system impacts every single condition of life. You know, whether it comes to our relationships, whether it comes to our gosh, I mean, you can see the impact of COVID on their health and well being. It is, and this is this is the reason for that, that study groups that are formed is because of the fact that we're trying to create narratives that help people respond to the urgency of it, because it's, it's, we're very disconnected from how important this workers on our day to day, we're just kind of living our lives, and we go with

COVID. And then we deal with the war on Ukraine. And but we have this much bigger issue at hand. And if people knew the lack of biodiversity and the impact on the food system and the nutrient value, and therefore the Florida impact to the well being of the children in the nutrition like it, we really should be up in arms. And it shouldn't just be out, really our kids that are striking, you know, that are holding our government accountable. It should be us as kind of the grown adults that are more often. 00:18:38.190 --> 00:20:26.250 Yes, I mean, there's a massive, I know, I experienced and I know other people experience, massive sort of cognitive dissonance between the alert as raised by scientists and others, and the response of supposedly competent institutions which are supposed to look after our future. And those mainstream institutions, it's for a long time, it has felt like to believe the scientists is to be a bit mad because the norm has been to not leave the site or not to act on the science in a very profound way to sort of channel with Tom dug a bit. Hopefully, there is changing, but it is very slow, and perhaps a bit late in the game. But I think what interests me about how you're talking about this, Matthew, is that you have outcomes like protecting us from global heating, restoring biodiversity, which could come from almost any UN or corporate document. There's lots of words like that. The outcomes are similar, but the method and the house is rather different because you're trying to connect this to your heritage, the heritage of the people in the place where you live, and their values and methods and respecting that indigeneity and indigenous knowledge which I think is very different from the how we would get from other kinds of players who would say, Yeah, we need to avoid global heating, which is why we need to have lots of channels, technological solutions, your your house is bringing that spirituality back, for instance, is not something you'd hear in most climate climber conferences. He wants anyway. 00:20:20.700 --> 00:20:30.480 Like, is there something about the future, which is not just the outcomes, but it's also about the method of getting there? 00:20:32.609 --> 00:20:49.829 Well, they're just really means that haven't looked at. So they're not having real, real conversations or vulnerable conversations. And in, frankly, why I moved into this loop, because there's far too much policy and not enough extra. 00:20:50.039 --> 00:23:55.710 Yeah. So I mean, at a basic level, when you look back at kind of global globalisation and global trade, right, you can see that, what happens is you put somebody on a ship, they will go out there and find a resource, and especially, it will be a spice, and then they find that spices kill those people that burned down the trees and take the resource, they map that map that the spice up 400%, and then they would sell it, and this is how we've got the Dutch East India Trading Company, and so on

and so forth. Right. So, so, you know, who then if you look into the Americas, right, and then kind of they came over and, you know, basically, you've got the Indian populations, and they're like, well, these, these guys are savages, because they have spirituality and mysticism as a part of their life, and they see this earth as something that's living. Well, it's a resource that we want to claim. And therefore, we have to remove the mysticism, we have to teach them English, we have to teach them religion, and I'm, you know, I'm not against religion, I think it has a lot of benefits, but I also can see that people have been in it, and manipulated, right? So restricted, you know, spirituality from the indigenous people in America, despite the fact that America was founded on the principles of religious freedom, took mysticism out of the language, so they could take the land and use the labours of resource as a renewable resource. So we still, we still have that viewpoint, and, and the only people that I see that don't have that viewpoint, and their bias is our indigenous people. And, you know, I guess that that came from spending time outside of VHF, where I recognise my own bias in the system that I couldn't even see the system I grew up in, because I'm white, intelligent, athletic, you know, like, I got, I got a period passport at birth, you know, whatever it is, that is my advantage I have been given it. And as a result, I can't see what it's like to be a woman and and be, you know, be really, I mean, there isn't really one woman that I've met that hasn't been accosted in the workplace or experienced prejudice. Yeah, you know, you know, my first experience of prejudice and to my really first experience with prejudice was being accused of shoplifting when I didn't do it, and having no ability to get out of it. And I, you know, and that was affiliate. So I've grown up in a system that has inherently benefited me. Yeah. And at the point in time that I realised that I would, Okay, it's time to change that system, because that's just not fair. Yeah, we have to restore equity, we have to restore. And if we do, we will start to address some of the underlying issues that we have in society, because it'll give people back their sense of place and land. And they will start to deal with mental health that or start to deal with physical well being because people will go, they'll know where they come from. Right. So you can see that you can start to see the layers of hippie ha. 00:23:56.250 --> 00:24:14.430 And if you walk into a Maori organisation, we're sitting in conversation with a steering committee where they're talking, and we've got, we've got equal representation from what I, which is the meeting house and the place that represents the external interest of the elite. 00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:26.400 We've got the community, which represents the interests of the people, we've got the policy team, which represents the interests of the environment, and we've got the commercial team which represents the interests of the commercial. 00:24:22.410 --> 00:24:38.099 Right. So you look at that from a governance perspective. You know, they, you know, II, we really understand how to have a balanced scorecard. And they're not using a plant, you're not using a doughnut economic model. 00:24:39.390 --> 00:24:44.579 They're not looking at, they're not looking at, oh, we need to create a circular economy. 00:24:41.640 --> 00:25:24.420 They're just going well, no, and our belief system, water is a living thing. Right? And so we have to treat it as such. And if we treat the water, well, then they don't, then we'll be healthy. And if we're healthy, then we'll be able to create abundance. So so that's that's why I think we have to in New Zealand really wake up to the privilege that is to be a part of explore what our, our kind of our history was. I think it's a, it's a difficult thing, when you look to it. You know, it is recent history in recent memory, it's all documented. You can you can see it. Yeah, we can actually go to work on that. 00:25:25.799 --> 00:26:05.970 Yeah. So I think one of the things which attracted me to the Enron, Hillary fellowship, in the first place was the notion of New Zealand as a trailblazer, that it's sort of small enough that you can have enough of the right people in the room to get something started, which is very difficult, more difficult to gain. And since being involved in HF, I've also realised that it has the New Zealand has another possible role as a trailblazer, which is, has a relatively unusual situation with indigenous people and that back to the Treaty of Waitangi. 00:26:01.140 --> 00:26:25.019 That means it can be a place for experimenting and bringing in that knowledge and that perspective, and that equity and striving for that equity. What, without not ignoring the legacies, but somehow working with them and going beyond them. 00:26:22.529 --> 00:26:25.019 I'm not expressing it very well. 00:26:25.019 --> 00:27:15.420 But there's, there's, there's one New Zealand does first other places can get to do later. And speaking as I am from London, where we've had lots of debates about statues of slave slave owners, who people who got rich through slavery, and the difficulty of many people here of acknowledging how much of UK is current status and wealth comes from past behaviour, which even at the time was thought to be brutal, and terrible. There's a it's Queen Victoria, criticising Clive of India, or criticising. I've forgotten the name of the person who drove their way down the spine of Africa. But it's like, if you've got Queen Victoria criticising, you can't just say it's work. 00:27:15.960 --> 00:29:13.769 Stuff is like she was the Empress. And she was always brutal. So I think, yeah, I think that's one of the things that just come to me through the HR stuff is the way in which AEHF and its fellows are engaging with the EU in the legacy, there can be something which

the rest of us can learn from, particularly in countries like the UK, which have colonial histories, which we've massively benefited from and barely acknowledge. So and so I think the work that you're doing, in trying to achieve those outcomes, like a safe and secure climate, water that's healthy for all equality and equity, but doing that, in a way, which is it embedded in and and enabled by that indigenous knowledge and approach and, and their own involvement and their own power in it. I think it's incredibly important, because it will be something that the rest of us can try to learn from as we go forward. I mean, at a much more macro level, one of the great stumbling blocks at last cop in Glasgow, was the negotiations on loss and damage, which is that the rich countries got rich by polluting, and the poor countries are the ones which are going to be most affected by climate change. Also, many of them were colonial colonies rather, and we're not we in the West are not prepared to acknowledge the loss and damage in our part in that and any compensation or anything around that. And that's a massive barrier to a lot of countries be able to take the steps they need to take. So that sort of very, very macro level, whatever very specific location based level while you're doing I think is, is fantastic. And has quite a long thing for me. So looking forward, what do you produce the next few years? 00:29:18.269 --> 00:30:37.380 I mean, we've just been talking about it. Yeah. Like? I mean, I haven't just been literally just ensuring that work. Yeah. You know, today. I mean, I've got documents open on my desktop, the application for the grants to do it. And I was in a conversation yesterday with somebody about how would we get some funding to launching something that we're calling fix the so called.org And basically, the idea is that we don't policy documents and accounts information. And infrastructure is very difficult for most people to understand. But if you look at our logo, elementary systems, right, Elementary is a living system living system, we talked about a living system is a built environment that connects to the human environment, it connects to an environment, right? I can extend the environment. So we don't we're not trying to build a system that is operating independently. That's traditionally how waste infrastructure operates. It's, it's connected to a house, we push a button in the toilet, we put something down the waste disposal, we put something to rubbish, and it takes us up. 00:30:34.980 --> 00:30:48.690 Right, we're very disconnected from, from our waste systems, you know, and we get most frustrated if our councils don't pick out, but because that's what we expect from them. Right. 00:30:46.710 --> 00:32:12.690 So they're telling me, essentially, how to make most of our procurement decisions is, you know, and I'm being a little bit facetious, but you know, I have I've got some evidence, collected some evidence over the last year, so that we can take this stuff public, right? And to show how to show that we've tried to play by the rules and the rules, systems don't work, right. Especially based on our laws, right. But fundamentally, we have a carbon zero. In New Zealand, the government has declared a climate. Yeah. Now procurement system doesn't allow us to interact, right? So what do we do about it? So it's not about placing blame, it's about saying, hey, look, if we've truly serious about it, we're gonna do that. No. So but basically, we'll get our first stage is to build a demonstration plant. And we will have to fund a privately, because it's still seen as a risk, despite the fact that we have built plants like this. And then we have previously we have patents for and we have a highly reputable team that we've put together to do it, it's still seen as a risk. Now, we have a few things to prove, we have to prove that we can access our emissions trading scheme in a way that's never been accessed before. I mean, traditionally, what we do is we use ETs to build pine forests in New Zealand. So to be honest with you, it doesn't even restore biodiversity. 00:32:13.079 --> 00:32:15.869 You know, we could impose a different biodiversity on 00:32:17.160 --> 00:32:23.940 poses monoculture, right, so we've got an ETS system that opposes monoculture. 00:32:19.380 --> 00:33:07.109 And we have to, we have to evidence and identification standards and move away from being compliant for discharge standards to creating value that people procure, so that we don't have the same loop that's going on, which is we try to minimise waste, what we're trying to do is maximise the value we create from that waste, extract as much nutrients as possible extract as much energy as possible. So we have to create a demonstration site. So we can show people that because, you know, inherently they need to be able to put their hands on I can see it. So there's a lot of interest in this site. Because, you know, effectively there wouldn't be a site like this in New Zealand and other people want to do innovation on top of it as well now. So that's really exciting. 00:33:09.029 --> 00:34:16.860 And what we're trying to do is, is actually say that we can treat mixed and variable streams of waste, right, so we don't have to have counsel creating a landfill and a greenway centre, and sending their sludge to landfill. And having a wastewater treatment plant that has solar systems, we're just saying, create an integrated waste method system, that means you consolidate the lane that you need to consolidate your capital cost. And ideally, you can create as much value from that waste as possible, which means that you don't have to use government money to subsidise the infrastructure, you don't have to increase the rates to your, to your ratepayers in order to pay for it. Right. So overall, it is what we call a separate economic model. But it's a circular economic model that changes changes the procurement model on its

head, so that you're not stuck in that ever constant loop of trying to get more money out of central government and more money, right. So, so we've, we've we've cracked that we've cracked the economic model, we just have to, we have to prove it to New Zealand and then from there, they'll just 00:34:18.150 --> 00:34:40.199 up to the world, like a hockey stick. And in our conversation so far, I've this because my next question is someone's inspired to follow your priorities or those priorities what what should they do next? And I've heard there's a priority which is about getting this business to be successful, which is just outlining the details of there. 00:34:40.530 --> 00:35:16.440 There's also under sort of, underneath as part of that for you is a priority about respecting and bringing in indigenous knowledge and people with equity, where they have power in a process to make a difference. And then I guess there's also possibly a third priority which is to into the root causes of our crisis, which includes the separation of people from the environment and overcoming that separation. So if people were, if your were inspired to follow any of those priorities, what should they do next? 00:35:20.610 --> 00:35:23.010 I can't tell I can't tell somebody what to do. 00:35:23.369 --> 00:35:37.679 Because it comes down to what the original aims are and which time they're in the journey. And also what the specialised knowledge is. So if, if the question is, what are we going to do next? I can answer that. 00:35:34.050 --> 00:35:44.519 Or I can answer another question, I can answer a question. How do you determine what action you would like to take as an individual? And as a two quite different 00:35:44.610 --> 00:35:48.329 go for the second one? Have you decided what to do as an individual? 00:35:50.219 --> 00:36:10.050 Well, first thing is you've got to figure out how to become, you know, zero waste and carbon neutral is an individual like to start that journey. You know, right. So you start the journey as an individual, for me, that was creating a zero waste boundary on the house. 00:36:04.170 --> 00:36:15.360 Right. And so from there, we to it, as soon as you create awareness, and you create an action, you get a learning from that, and you get a data point. 00:36:16.650 --> 00:37:03.420 Right, so you become aware of how much plastic waste you generate. And then you become aware of the source of sources of where those plastic waste. So you change, you change your providers, right, or, you know, you start to look at your carbon emissions on your, on your aeroplane flights, and then you realise this carbon emissions on all of your deliveries, and he realises carbon emissions on all of the service providers you've got. So you start asking questions with the service providers to say, where are your carbon offsets? Right? So it's, you know, the, as you as you look to the emissions free and carbon zero, you know, it's, it's from this present state in time, I

haven't got to the point where I'm looking backwards, I have a friend of mine, who has done and become has become zero carbon as an individual. Right? 00:37:00.900 --> 00:37:03.420 And 00:37:04.710 --> 00:37:05.670 on a lifetime. 00:37:06.539 --> 00:37:15.750 Yeah, he's, he's, he has a certificate where he's pretty much opposite his life. 00:37:09.150 --> 00:39:43.440 Okay. Yeah. So. So I'm fundamentally not being facetious, right. Like, it's, it's about taking every action and every moment to change. And that means, that means if I'm walking down the street, and there's a lot of a lot of rubbish that somebody hasn't picked up, I'll go and pick it up, because I don't want to go into a water system. I don't know, it's the council's job, you know. So. So, you know, the first stage is take that immediate action, you know, and I guess I'm, I mean, I know that I'm in a position of privilege to be able to choose the work that I do. But I've built my life for the last decade to get to that point. Right. And that, what I've done is, I've done that on the back of education and studying and deliberate practice. And, you know, and for me, that's getting clear on what I'm, what my specialised knowledge is what I'm good at, and then building teams around me, and working with people. And then, you know, not being attached to the thing that I think we should do. That's all I know, that's my biggest weakness, I see a future I try to take people there, and I don't recognise where they are on the journey. So knowing when it's valuable and knowing what it's not, you know. And, like, I mean, in this current environment, everybody needs to recognise that, that climate needs to be a part of the role independent of what work they do at the moment. Right. So if you do that learning in the home, then apply that to whatever it is in your in it what it is in your environment, in your workplace. But recognising also that, you know, a circular economy mostly wasted, we build waste in as we start the process. So a process that exists that has a way it has waste in it, you're usually going to have to rebuild that process from the beginning to make it zero waste. So be aware that if you're doing it in a work environment, you're gonna have to take on some hard conversations, you know, but ultimately, the sooner you do it, the lower risk your business is going to be. I wrote a blog post probably two years ago called Green, green is the New Black as a play on words. You know, black being fashion and icon like black as always in fashion and you're either in the red or the black in business. 00:39:44.460 --> 00:40:50.369 And the basic the basic concept was that if you're not regenerative in your, in your business, not just sustainable, right, because sustainable means you maintain your base, but you're not regenerative in your business. Then You won't be profitable. And you can start to see that already. You know, we've got courier companies the same the the carbon zero, and we've got beef producers are saying that carbon zero and that kind of caught on it's, it's it is that new thing organics and now it's carbon zero, but the underlying costs and the externalities are going to be built into emissions trading schemes, they would be built into stripping land applications standards, there's going to be higher costs for fossil energy use, all of these will have direct impact on the supply chain, you know, increasing landfill fees. So so the sooner you do it, the better you're going to be. When it comes to the transparency the supply chain, you got to be honest with your customers to enhance your brand. Like it's, it's, it's it's also business sense now, because it's climate is a financial risk, like, you can't avoid it. 00:40:50.849 --> 00:41:03.960 I mean, there's yes, there's, there's, I think it's a roofing report it there's no non radical way forward, either. We don't do enough. And we get hit by radical physical changes from climate change and biodiversity. 00:41:04.500 --> 00:41:27.630 Or we make radical changes to our economic systems, as you've been describing, in which case, we may escape the worst, we will escape the worst of climate change. We can't avoid all of it now. But there's no non radical way forward. Just two last questions for you. If your younger self was starting their career now, what advice would you give them? 00:41:33.300 --> 00:42:23.880 I go back to my mom's advice, which is, you know, pick the things that you enjoy doing, you know, yeah, I mean, I haven't. I still, like don't get me wrong. There are some times I'm doing work and I'm labouring. It's usually when I'm, it's usually when I haven't asked for help. So the I haven't really worked for the last decade. Now, I work. I do things with my body, in my mind, all the time. But I don't feel like I have been beholden to do work that other people have told me I need to do. So I would say, you know, pick those things that you enjoy, and then put in the dedicated practice to learn. 00:42:23.909 --> 00:42:35.369 I've personally probably spent over 100,000 On my own education since I left university. Yeah. 00:42:29.250 --> 00:42:48.929 Right. So in the study of how people interact, not in, not in a specialised science, not in not in building technology, but in studying how people interact, right? And so learn about how you best work with others as well, I would say. 00:42:50.159 --> 00:42:55.170 Wonderful, thank you. And the last question is, is there anything else important you'd like to say? 00:43:08.670 --> 00:44:41.940 Think there's so many times that we can walk into the conversation, and we forget that we're in a dialogue with another human. We there is more, we have more in common with other humans than we have that separate, whether it comes to our DNA around biology, or, you know, the human body is it's just, you know, they're all the same, right? And I'm not, I'm not talking about that I'm talking about the fact that we have lived experiences, you know, and we forget that we bring those lived experiences into every conversation. And it's so easy to place blame or find fault, or get frustrated. And I think that the thing that is missing from us, or for us at the moment is humanity, right? And the more that you can have, you know, the space, the more that you can give the space and time to others just to be themselves or to give them the opportunity to let go of what's going on or just to share your own vulnerable experience, the more we can bring humanity back into daily lives. And yeah, I'm very much about the need for vulnerability at the moment. I think. That's where I find access to my humanity. 00:44:42.929 --> 00:44:45.420 Wonderful. 00:44:42.929 --> 00:45:23.039 Well, that's a great sentiment to end on, of showing our vulnerability in order to connect with each other at a human level. And then just also thanks for sharing what your your advice from your mother about doing what you love doing what you like and constantly constantly learning. Those are all massively important and insightful things to share with us. So thank you very much, Matthew. You've been listening to what you're doing these powerful times with Matthew Jackson, myself, David, Ben, thank you very much for your time and attention. And hope you can join us next time by Matthew. 00:45:25.590 --> 00:45:25.889 Thanks