บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Be authentic & trust your brand of creativity – with Jillian Speece

these songs, and that was my safe, happy space, you know. Speaker 2: 6:07 But I think somewhere along the way it was more painful for me to just kind of fit in than to be who I am authentically, and that that there was a bud that needed to bloom and I in the, in the rare chance where I had teachers kind of encouraging me to step out like they. There were teachers who saw me in class, like I had a really cool music teacher and he was like Jillian, I really want you to sing a solo in this big. It was like the huge school you know whenever assembly. And I was like no, you have the wrong person. I just like looked at him. I was like no, I'm not doing that. Speaker 2: 6:46 I was terrified. I love doing it, but just step out in front of everyone was terrifying. And he kept asking and and I kept being like no. And then finally I went home I don't maybe after a few weeks of him asking me saying no, he was like are you sure? He's like I really think you'd be great at this. I don't really want to give this solo away to someone else. I was like dang it. So I was probably like 10. Speaker 2: 7:06 I went home. I told my parents. I was like so my teacher keeps asking me to do this solo and I keep saying no. And they're like what, you have to do it. And I'm like oh my gosh, this is so scary. And they're like we know it's scary, but you have a beautiful voice and I didn't really think I had that great of a voice. I just love singing. They're like no, you really, how about we help you, how about we, like you know, work with you? And I was like okay, so I did it and my first ever solo was the Beatles yesterday, which is a song I knew because I sang it every day when I came home. But that was like the first time I really felt untethered, like I was going away from what was comfortable, I was moving into a space where it felt wild and it was very nerve wracking. But that was when I really felt like in my life I started that bud just started to slowly come open. Was that first ever assembly soul of the Beatles yesterday? Speaker 1: 8:06 That's so fascinating. I love that you got to sing this song that you loved so much and you'd been singing at home and really in that vibe for yourself. But you said, I didn't really think I was that good at it, but I loved doing it. Speaker 1: 8:21 And it's been so interesting as I reflect and as I hear from other people and other stories and I reflect on my own story. So it's so often that the things that we're really good at other people are clearly seeing in us and we're not always clearly seeing it in ourselves. Like what is that? Speaker 2: 8:37 Yes, it's so interesting because, wow, okay. So from that day, from being 10, I'm 35 now and I've you know, I've fully, I've, I've just about fully embraced all the aspects of who I am. I feel like it's a continual learning process, right, like there's always deeper. I can always dive deeper, so like I really consider myself a deep diver in life.

So when you start going on a path where you're becoming untethered from what everybody's telling you should be doing or you need to be living the way, you need to look this way, you need to hang out with these people, you need to drive this car, live in this house, make this amount of money, and you're locked into a grid. When you step outside of that and say you know what, the thing that makes me not only so happy, or the things that make me shine when I do those things, they actually encourage other people to shine. When you step away and you start living in that light, your life changes and you can never go back. And I know that sounds maybe scary to some people who are thinking of maybe stepping away from something they've been doing to live out their passion, and it is scary. But when you jump outside of the lines and you start living life on brand. That's where the magic is at. That's where, when you say, oh, jillian, you seem like someone who's had magic since you were little. Speaker 2: 10:01 The magic is inside of all of us. It's when you start living in alignment. It's when you start showing up not only for who the divine created you to be, but the person that you all fit into. That's where the magic lies. It's kind of in this uncomfortable oh my gosh, am I actually going to do this? Am I going to go on this massive stage in front of 15,000 people and I'm going to sing an original song? Not only does that terrify me, but when I'm doing it, I feel more at home than any other place on the planet. So it's this constant dance in between your fears telling you no, don't do this, don't go there, don't show up. And then who you're meant to be and this love that you want to share with the world. And then they're constantly dancing with each other and pushing. You know you're pushing your authentic voice over the edge, over the fears, and that's where the magic happens. Speaker 1: 10:58 Truly, and you've gotten to live that. So take us back to you know after that, after that 10 year old, how did you get to where you are today and what what has? And we don't have to go through like step by step, everything, but what were some of the, the powerful moments that you can remember that transformed into you, know you traveling all over the world and having a documentary and all of the things that you have now? Speaker 2: 11:26 Oh my gosh, I love it so okay. So obviously that was like the first moment. You know my 10 year old self singing that solo and I remember the feeling I had after I did that. That feeling carried on for weeks Like oh my gosh, that was so much fun. When I pulled it off I was like that was a blast. Hmm, wonder if I could do that again. Speaker 2: 11:45 And I often say that it starts with these little, tiny micro steps. So the first step you heard me talk about is I knew I loved to sing and I bought the little anthology set from the Beatles. That was a very small. It was like, you know, I'd go home and I'd

sing with those. That's kind of like manifesting one-on-one right. I love the Beatles. I started listening to the songs. I go to school. The teacher hears me singing with the choir, identifies my voice and is like oh hey, you know it's funny, I'm programming the Beatles Maybe I talked about it before and he's like I really want you to do the solo. And I'm like, no, I'm terrified. Then he kept asking. He was persistent. Then I showed up. I said okay, finally I did it and I loved it. And so it's the steps of how I got here. It's all of that over and over. Speaker 2: 12:35 So they're tiny little micro steps of putting yourself out there saying, man, you know what would be really cool. It'd be really cool to tour the world. It'd be really cool to do a show a sold out show in Paris. It'd be really cool one day to make a documentary. It's like the first time I ever thought of making a documentary. I was in college. I watched a documentary on HBO called Crazy, sexy Cancer with Chris Carr. I remember noting in my head oh my gosh, this is really cool. I'd be so interesting one day to make a documentary. And then, all these years later, not only did we make a documentary, we got a distribution deal, we became eligible on the Oscars list. That's crazy. How is this possible? But it starts with a teeny, tiny little seed. A mustard tree, which is one of the biggest trees and one of the strongest trees, starts with literally the smallest seed. That's almost the size of like four pieces of sand. That's how dreams come true. It starts with a seed and you have to keep taking steps. Speaker 2: 13:40 So I would say the next part of my career or my life, I was unfolding this dream, so I made it through grade school I was singing, where I loved it. I started singing a lot more in church and just putting myself out there was terrifying. Like this is not. It's not easy stuff. It wasn't like oh, oh, wow, I just showed up and I just started singing and everything was great. No, every time I showed up I would literally shake with like a piece of paper with the lyrics on it and sing it. When I was little, that's how I started and I would show up and I showed up 10 times, I showed up 50 times, I showed up a hundred times. I got to high school. In high school it was way bigger than you know. I think we had almost, like it was like 850, almost a thousand students in the body, the student body, which for us in Indiana that was. You know, that's a big school. Like that's kind of you know I mean, that's a very big audience. Speaker 2: 14:37 Like it's pretty solid, right. And I remember. So it's another Catholic high school and I remember being a freshman and going into the first assembly for, like, it's always Catholic mass, right, they need music for Catholic mass. And I remember being like, oh my gosh, like there are a lot of people in here and they had singers and whatever. And I thought, man, like I would love to sing in front of it. I would love to sing

like not only worship the divine, but like I would just love to show up and like share the gifts that I have. And I was like this is scary, this is really scary. Speaker 2: 15:10 Like high school, 14 years old, like, okay, here we go, like it's a different level with your you know, like grade school felt like okay, this is scary, but like whatever, like we're kind of young, like who's going to remember? High school is like oh yeah, like you mess up in high school, like they're they will, they can nickname you something and you will never live that down until you graduate, right. So, like I went to a couple of masses and I remember thinking, all right, jillian, like just one of these days you got to go talk to the the he was like the music director after one of the masses after this I don't know how many times I kept thinking about this, maybe it was like 10 times in I literally had a piece of paper with Amy Grant song El Shaddai, which is so funny because it's like all in, it's mostly in Hebrew, with like it's like El Shaddai, el Shaddai and it's like this kind of Hebrew. It was like the weirdest song I could have brought in like a Catholic world, but anyway, the meaning is all good. Speaker 1: 16:10 So religious. Speaker 2: 16:11 Yeah, it's great. I was like, can we? So I literally went up to the director and I was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm doing this. I felt sick, like. I felt like, oh my gosh, I'm going to ask to say hey, you know, I told I went up to him so nervous and I was like, hey, um, my name is Jillian and I sing. Speaker 2: 16:30 I have this song that I like to say sometimes like so awkward. And he was like, yes, and I was like, so I was like you know, maybe one day, like I could maybe join the choir or something. I wasn't thinking like soul, I was thinking even just joining the choir. And he said, okay, well, do you have the song on you? Do you know what it is? And I said, yeah, I had this little piece of paper with the notes. And he said, well, why don't you just sing it right now? I'll just play it. And I was like whoa, I was like right now. And he's like, oh my God, okay, I was like like right now, I mean I can come back. Speaker 2: 17:07 I could delay this gratification, I can come back tomorrow. And he's like no, he's like, and I said okay, so he starts playing it. I'm like oh my God. And I think I honestly think, if I remember this correctly, he started it and I didn't even jump in. I should have jumped in right when he hit those opening notes and I was so nervous I couldn't even. And he's like okay, let's try it again. He's like, and he looked at me and he's like and now and so then I started singing and then, once I started singing even though I was nervous, I'll get out I just kept singing, kept singing. And then, once I got to the middle, then I started becoming more confident and all this stuff. But the higher notes I still was like freaking out on. And I sang it and he looked

at me and he was like how about you sing this next week as a solo in front of everyone at mass? And I was like. I was like that escalated quickly. I was like, yeah, that really escalated. I was like, yeah, okay, let's do it. I was like what have I done? So I get to the next week. I'm practicing every day, I'm trying to really beef up my confidence. Speaker 2: 18:08 I like I was not prepared. Like I felt not prepared for this moment, like even though I'd saying it like grade school, this was like, oh my gosh, so the big times, this was the bait for me at this point. This is the big leagues. And I, I got to Tuesday, I I literally was like, before I had to sing it, I went to the bathroom like am I going to throw up from nerves? Speaker 2: 18:29 This has never happened to me before. I didn't throw up, but that's how nervous I was, got into the mass, had my little piece of paper with my lyric, just in case, even though I freaking knew the song. Now I got in and I went up and I, like my hand, I had the paper and it was just shaking, like people in the front row could see like I was nervous and I got through the song and it sounded great, like I made it through all the parts, like the tricky parts, and the entire assembly stood up and applauded during mass, which is like not acceptable not a, thing, I'm also Catholic, okay this is not a thing. Speaker 2: 19:10 And I was like I literally had chills. I was like, and then I was like, oh my gosh, and like, scurried off to sit down and it was like I literally stepped out of the mass and and everybody was calling me El Shaddai girl. They were calling me oh my gosh, el Shaddai girl. El Shaddai, oh wait you sang that song. Speaker 1: 19:32 I was totally thinking you singing Eagle's Wings or something like that. No, you were singing your song. Speaker 2: 19:36 No, no, I sang yes, I sang that Amy Grant El Shaddai Hebrew like throwing down, like marrying, like the Jewish culture with the Catholics. It was like it was so unconventional. Okay, look back, I'm like this is on brand for who I am. But at the time I was like oh my gosh, this is happening. So, for the rest of my high school and to this day, if I go back to my hometown and I run into somebody at the store, they're like oh El Shaddai girl, or they're like Jillian oh El Shaddai. That song changed. What are you talking about? Speaker 2: 20:09 But that was like one of the key moments and and I can break this down for anyone who is trying to like, let's say, somebody right now works at a bank and they they went to school for that. Speaker 2: 20:18 They enjoy working in a bank and they're good at what they do, but their real passion is making pottery on the wheel and they love it. They look when they're on the wheel, they they feel like time stands still, like you're in the moment and they're free. They're like oh my gosh, expansive, creating. And when they finish those pieces the multiple stages of working on the

wheel they have these beautiful pieces and maybe they give away to friends as gifts and friends are like, oh my gosh, I would buy a set of this. Maybe they're at that part of their life. I would say that the biggest steps for that person is you just have to look at your life in a way where you're like time management right. First off, you have to know what you love and you have to know that this, this right here, can get in the way of what you love, right? Speaker 1: 21:05 So even for anyone just listening. Yeah, it's a cell phone. Yeah. Speaker 2: 21:09 But, like there's all these choices we make, there are little micro choices. So if this person wants to be a potter, like maybe they want to be a full-time potter, build a business, sell, start selling at the farmer's market, then grow it to something bigger, do really well in Etsy, whatever. Everything starts with micro choices. It's all the way that we look at ourselves, think about ourselves and show up for ourselves and show up for the community. So for me, I had to say wow. When I sing, I feel most alive and I see that that singing is affecting people in a positive way. For this potter, whoever is in this position where they want to jump and do something different, it's little micro steps. It's not happening all at once. It took me years from grade school to the high school moment to get to that point and then for years to get from the high school moment to where I'm at today. But I show up consistently. So it's about consistency. The only thing that can really bust you through into a new realm of living your most authentic life is consistency, and when we're on our phones or when we're distracted, it's very difficult to be consistent. So I would say the number one first step is one. You have to find out what lights you up, and that could take a little while. Some people don't know and that's totally cool. That's totally okay. That's the fun part. You start going. Maybe you go ride a horse for the first time, maybe you go try and sing at a karaoke bar, maybe you do pottery, but there's something inside of your soul that will nudge you in the right direction. So, number one you have to be okay with failing forward and searching. It's okay to search. It's okay to give yourself time and space to figure out. You know what? I've always kind of loved piano. I'm going to go get a keyboard. Or I'm going to go to Guitar Center and just go over by the keyboard and just kind of fiddle around on it and maybe you find one you like. Maybe you're like, wow, I really love this. Or you know I've always had this nudge to do watercolors. Or you know I've always had a nudge to start a podcast. I don't know why, but it just keeps coming back. So you have to listen to those. And then you got to hone it in. Speaker 2: 23:14 So for me, when I was little, I knew, when I was very little, that I loved singing. I knew it Whenever I did it, I felt so good, I had fun doing it, it was connective, it just felt enriching. And maybe for you you know that when you and you got to sometimes go back, maybe when you were little, whenever you would write or maybe you wrote poems, but now you don't do that anymore. Something there's little nudges, especially when you're little, it's very pure. There's like not a lot of well, now there is more influence and distractions. But you know, back in like the nineties and early 2000s, it was a little easier to figure it out. But it's about creating the space. So create the space, go explore and then, once you find that thing right and it could be a couple of things I love to sing. Speaker 2: 24:02 I also love to host retreats. I love teaching. I also love creating films. I love filming. I love the directorial process, I love putting things together, I love transformation. So I now know I have a full scope of things that I really love to do and that I've worked really hard on that I'm very good at now. So it could start with one and kind of morph. Speaker 2: 24:25 I know Marie Forleo often says she's like a serial entrepreneur. I am definitely vibing on that. I feel that way too. But yeah, I mean, I think for people it's finding the thing that you really love, or at least starting with one and getting good at whatever. That is the 10,000 hour theory. Speaker 2: 24:46 I've been singing for well over 10,000 hours now, but when I hit that original 10,000 hours now, but when I hit that original 10,000 hour threshold, it felt really good and I knew kind of when that happened. And you feel it, you, you something changes. Like when I was on stage, like, instead of like being really nervous or stuff, I'm like all right, let's go. Like there's a confidence that comes with hitting that 10,000 hour level and people will know that. So, like, if we're talking about this potter, when this potter hits the wheel for 10,000 hours, there will be things, there'll be levels that are unlocked in the consistency of showing up on that wheel. Speaker 2: 25:27 And when you hit that 10,000 hours or you know whatever you're doing whether it's a podcast or singing or making films you know that something's changed in you and that's when the magic is trailing in between the consistency. So that magic we're talking about it is when you show up consistently, it is when you work hard. This stuff is not easy. It's not like oh, we're just like everything's so easy in my life and everything's great. No, it's freaking hard, but I'm tough and I have confidence in my abilities because I show up in a way that is fierce. Not only do I show up for myself, but I'm continually showing up for other people, and the magic is threaded in between that consistency, and that's why it really excites me. Speaker 1: 26:13 We can tell that you're excited about it and that you're. I think it's important to hear that in somebody's voice, because you're saying this from a place of having done the 10,000 hours. And I think it can feel

really cumbersome when we're at the very beginning stages to be faced with that and to be getting there Like, well, I'm in the exploration stage. But something that you said about the exploration stage is that that gets to be fun and I think we forget that and we'll go into the exploration stage and we'll be like, well, I got to figure it out, I got to figure it out, I got to go potter it and see how that feels. And now I got to go try this and I have to see how that feels, and it's like we we start to put tethers just on on our fun and then it's, it stops us from even finding the thing that we want to invest our 10,000 hours into. Speaker 2: 27:04 Yes, oh, totally, and I think a lot of what I do and the longevity of what I have done and what I continue to do, is that I meet each day and moment with playfulness. So I often say, like, as a musician, as a creative, I don't go when I'm singing or let's say I'm practicing or I'm playing the guitar, I'm playing the guitar, I'm not like, oh, I have to do this, or whatever I'm, actually it's playful. Life should have play involved in it at any age, like when we're kids. We play, you know, we play hard, we go on the, you know, the monkey bars and we're screaming and we're laughing and we're chasing our friends and we play, we invent games, we have fun together. Speaker 2: 27:56 We have lost, as adults, this level of play and I honestly think and there's many reasons for that, for this what I'm about to say but because we've lost the sense of wonder, because we've lost the sense of play, because everything's so much pressure, we are seeing astronomical levels of depression and unhappiness and unfulfillment across our country that we've never seen before. There's so much pressure to confine yourself to looking a certain way, to sounding a certain way. We're on social media, we're on TikTok, we're on Instagram and comparing, comparison is the thief of joy. So when you're playing, when you're literally in a flow state of play, you're not comparing and we need to give ourselves the permission to play. And that's this energy, of this energy we're talking about with this first step of finding yourself and what you just said. Speaker 2: 28:54 It's like when we give ourselves permission to play, we have to look at it like playing, not like more pressure, not oh, I got to add that, oh, I got to go to that you know one class to see if that's my thing. Like no, it should be fun, like follow the things that are fun. And when you're having fun, it's infectious and you not only by you just showing up, you inspire other people to have fun and to enjoy it. And in this you find different levels of happiness that continue to unfold in your life and it's really beautiful how that works to unfold in your life and it's. Speaker 1: 29:30 it's really beautiful how that works. Speaker 2: 29:31 Follow the fun. Speaker 1: 29:35 Yes, totally, that's awesome advice. So you you mentioned this, what you're feeling and seeing across the U? S and you have indeed been across the U? S quite literally for your documentary that you created. We can just take a segue over to that and what inspired you to create State of the Unity, what got you inspired for it and what did you see along the way? What did you learn? Speaker 2: 30:01 Yeah, so this is one of my favorite things to talk about, right? So in 2015, my husband, nathaniel, and I, we were inspired from the death of his grandfather who passed away. We were inspired by his legacy. So six months before, we lost his grandmother, and then we lost his grandfather, who died of a broken heart and died of a very minor health issue, but he was like I'm so ready to go and be with Joan they were coming on their 65th wedding anniversary and he's like I can't do it without her here. So the legacy that they led was really beautiful. They created a safe space in their home for anyone to come in or out at any time and they loved people where they were at this generation that is now almost completely lost, this beautiful you know our grandparents generation. They were warriors. You know they fought not only for our country, but they also fought for people. Like they saw things differently. They loved people differently. His grandfather was a Republican, his grandmother was a Democrat and they just embraced people wherever they're at. They loved each other. They loved all of us. We loved them and they created this space of unity at the kitchen table and it was beautiful, and so when he passed away. Speaker 2: 31:25 We were sitting in our at that point, just our Volvo station wagon and it was like a 2002. So it had like a lot of. It had 264,000 miles on it and we had toured for the beginning portion of our lives, like from 2010, for the first five years of our musical life, we had toured out of this car. We're very familiar with it, it was like our fave and we were sitting the night that he passed away in the car after a dinner, a family dinner and my husband put his hands on the steering wheel and it was like in this moment the only way I can explain it was like the divine came into the car and struck my husband and us with this vision. So this is 2015, october 17, 2015. And the vision was we were supposed to go out and bring people together and my husband had this really clear vision. First he tells me this vision, I had chills all over my body, on my head. Speaker 1: 32:22 I had chills from head to toe. You even just saying this, I had chills everywhere. Speaker 2: 32:28 And I looked at him and I was like, yeah, and he's like I don't know what this is going to mean for our lives. I don't know what this is going to look like. I don't even know the timeline for this. And I said, well, what are we doing? And he's like the vision is we need to go out into America and we need to bring people together. We didn't even know the word was unity at that time and so we're

brainstorming I have chills right now telling this again, but we're brainstorming. What could that look like? And we're like, well, we could play music. Music brings people together. We could invite people to. This was just like a funny this actually okay. Speaker 2: 33:03 So on this 50 state tour that we ended up doing, we invited people to sign their message of unity on the outside and inside of this station wagon that the idea came from. And this particular thing, this idea of signing the car, actually came out of a joke that was said three months before this. So we were on tour in America and somebody said, oh, can you sign my vinyl that I just bought from you? And my husband looked at them and said, yeah, I'll sign your vinyl if you like. Sign our car as like a total joke, like something that was like what? Like we were like why did you say that so silly and literally like three months. That was the seed for like. Speaker 2: 33:45 When we're in the car brainstorming in this moment, we're like wait, what if we had people sign their message of peace and unity on our station wagon? And we're like, yeah, because earlier that week we were driving the station wagon from Brooklyn, new York, where we were living at the time, back home to South Bend, indiana, and a guy called us on the phone because he had heard that maybe we were thinking of selling the Volvo because it had almost, I mean, 264,000 miles is unbelievable and it was breaking here and there. So we were like, oh, should we sell this and get something new? Maybe I don't know. And he was like yeah, I'll give you like $400 for this car and I'm going to part it. I'm just going to sell the parts that are good. And this is how this idea came. Speaker 2: 34:31 So we're in the car, the lightning struck and the we're like wait, we could like play music and bring people together and then invite people to sign their message of unity on our car. And then it was like um, yeah, let's do it. We're like when and my husband, he looked at me and he was like I think we need to like like go now, like we need to like actually we'll have like a month and then we need to go as soon as possible. Like, once 2016 hits, we need to go, and it was like okay. So that is how, the beginning, that the why was we felt like America in 2015 was coming apart. We felt like it was the beginning season of polarization and we could see that happening because we were hearing it on the road in early 2015. Speaker 2: 35:18 Because you were traveling and playing around yes, all over America, and we were like, huh, something's off. I don't know what it is, but people seem upset, they seem a bit unwell mentally, starting to be very angry. We were hearing things. When you're traveling, you hear things that aren't being broadcast on the news, that no one's really talking about. We're talking to people on the ground, people working. We thought, hmm, interesting. Then we didn't even know, we had no clue. When

we got in the car and started the tour in Brooklyn, new York, on January 2nd 2016, we were like we had no clue what we were headed into with the political year. We just thought, okay, well, yeah, like, let's see what happens. Speaker 2: 36:08 And it ended up being one of the craziest political years on record in our country. And we were filming every day like terabytes of footage and it took us eight years to make the film because we had to go through so much footage and we had to fail forward. So we had seven versions of the film. We landed on the seventh version of the film it took us eight years to make. We had six failed versions and they weren't. We call them failed because we dished. You know, we would gut them. We get to a point where we're like, okay, this is kind of a film or these parts are good, but no, it's not right. And we kept doing that until we got it right. And we got it right and we got, we ended up getting it right, which is amazing, and we didn't even know we got it right until we ended up 2022. So obviously, the pandemic happened. We worked our butts off on this film like pretty much every day through 2020, 2021, 2022. Speaker 2: 37:08 We brought on two different teams. One team was in Cleveland, who we are eternally grateful Garage Creative. They helped get all of those beautiful shots where we're sitting down doing the interviews. They also helped do some shots, some B-roll shots and things with the professors, which is really helpful, and then we took the project from there and we brought it to LA. So it was like, really, this, this true unity that happened across the country. Speaker 2: 37:34 Right, we were working with different people across the political board who vote differently. We worked with different people who, you know, yeah, just really see the world differently, and we kept it together for this many years with different teams and we were learning how to become filmmakers. So we were learning by literally watching great documentaries and making notes. How did they tell that story. So we were teaching ourselves how to do this. We didn't go to college to do this and that's why it took so long. Plus funding, we self-funded it and then also got some big patrons in right at the end, thank God, or it wouldn't be out today without them. So I'm eternally grateful for our patrons who helped and for the support of the early supporters in 2015 who helped us raise money to buy gear on kickstarter. Speaker 2: 38:23 So there's a lot of people involved different levels but I think that the message of unity in a heavily divided and growing more divided and more polarizing world is more needed now than ever, because if we don't figure out ways to talk to people who are different than us, instead of just hating them, which is very easy to do, it's way easier to say, ooh, they vote that way or they like this group, I just hate them. It's so easy to do that Walk away. It's very, very difficult to say,

Ooh, okay, so we have some differences, but let's talk. That's way more difficult to do that than to just judge someone and walk away. And before I did the unity collective I would. Speaker 2: 39:08 You know, I consider myself to be a very nice person, but even people who are very different or even politically vote different. It was, I would honestly, looking back, I will admit that I would just I'd be pleasant, but I wouldn't really hang out and talk for too long. Now this has changed my life. I will go into difficult spaces. I will love people. I love people better now because of this tour, because of this film, and I meet people where they're at, with a heart of empathy instead of judging them and walking away. And that's probably the thing that makes me feel the most proud of this project is the way that it's transformed my heart and the way I love people differently now. Speaker 1: 39:49 It's really beautiful. There's a quote in the documentary I think it was one of the professors pretty early on where he says something like the path forward is that we can meet within the disagreement. I'm totally not quoting him exactly, but it seems similar to what you're saying here. It's like opening our hearts enough, and that takes work. It's not easy. It's not easy. It's so much easier to just be like you suck. Speaker 2: 40:12 Yeah, it is. I disagree. I think you're talking about Professor Dr David Anderson Hooker. He had a bow tie on yeah, and he said he said it's not a shared narrative of a future, but rather a narrative of a shared future moving forward. Rather a narrative of a shared future moving forward where we create space at the table for everyone to peacefully come and share their ideals and learn ways to talk to people in a peaceful way, where we understand where people are coming from, we understand their fears and differences and move forward together. But when I went into this film State of the Unity, I went into it thinking great unity, yes, okay. What do I know about unity here? Speaker 1: 40:57 we go. Speaker 2: 40:58 I was like let's go Like, how, how hard could this be? I thought, oh, unity, homogeny, kumbaya, oneness of thought, it's going to be great. What I learned is unity is not homogeny, unity is not oneness of thought. The most dangerous times in global history are when people thought the same had one way of thinking. There was like a global one way of thinking, order. When you see countries go on this path, this is when the most devastating things happen and people get hurt and people die and it's horrible. And so when I finished this tour well, literally when I finished the tour I felt so broken because we had been on the road for eight months straight, living out of 27 square feet together with my husband, who I adore, but that is like so much quality time you like start going a little crazy at the end. Speaker 1: 41:51 Like about a tiny home. Speaker 2: 41:52 Oh my gosh, I

was like it's like the little things really annoy you, like I started to annoy myself, like it's that small that like my own thoughts were annoying, you know I. But I think in this sense that when I finished the tour I felt broken, um, I felt mentally exhausted. I felt physically exhausted. We were financially literally ruined, like in ruins after this tour, because the car broke down so many times. That's not even in the film. After the tour we had racked up because we would play shows, we'd make enough money to get to the next place, but then there's food, hotels, the car would break down and that was like $1,200 every time it broke down, or whatever, or more sometimes. And that's not even in the film because it's just too many. It's in a film. You've got a structure with like act one, act two, act three with you know you can't do too many dips. It's got to be very calculated. So maybe one day we'll release a lot of the B-roll, which would be hilarious. But for now I think at the end of the tour, we're in something like $42,000 worth of debt. As artists you don't run in debt because debt is so difficult. We ended up for a few years just paying the interest every month, not even the principal. And I think this is something that a lot of Americans right now are facing and that's really hard right. So like if you're trying to follow your dreams and you have debt and you're like, whether you're paying student debt off or credit card debt or both or whatever, it can be very difficult. Speaker 2: 43:33 Really kicked in here because we had to be real vigilant on how we lived, because when you're an artist, traditionally you will go through seasons. It's very cyclical. You'll have like really solid, fat seasons where you're on tour, you're making money, you're saving, things are great, and then you're going to have these little seasons where it's like, oh man crap, I feel like we need to. Did we save enough to get through this two month period where it's after Christmas and people are kind of not going out as much, they're not spending as much or whatever. This is how the artist world it kind of works, even in different, not only just music. We have photographer friends, we have other friends who have these cyclical patterns, and so I think this consistency and also discipline really came in strong. Speaker 2: 44:13 And so I think for people also who might want to change course and pursue their dreams, but maybe they have debt, maybe they have things that are holding them back. Right, I think that what I found in this period where we needed to pay down that debt which praise the good Lord, jesus, we don't have any debt now it took years, but we don't have any anymore but it came down to vigilance and being very disciplined and consistent. And so if someone really wants to pursue a dream but that's holding them back, just know you can get out of it. But you would just have to really look at your life and sacrifice, make sacrifices, say okay, well, you know, we're, I'm going to be cooking every meal and it's going to be vegan and you know, whatever, like I actually am plant-based anyway, so I would do that anyway, but maybe it'll be rice and beans for a while, but you know, you figure it out and then you, you're stronger on the other end of that. Speaker 1: 45:16 I think this is a really important conversation and I appreciate that you're being so honest about it, because that's the part that a lot of times we don't see in somebody's journey is that very real moment, and nature isn't meant to bloom all the time. So I think the artist path artists are, so we're so in tune with the way that nature goes. Anyway, it's like naturally, a lot of things are going to move with that. So that consistency and knowing that it's coming you know once, it's happened to you once, now you know and you can prepare for it better, and that's hopefully how it gets for us over time. But it's really this message, I think, is something that a lot of us need to hear, and I appreciate that you're coming forward with it and sharing it to this degree. Speaker 2: 45:58 Thank you. Yeah, I'm an open book, I'm transparent and I think that in being transparent and vulnerable, we are able to help other people, maybe not feel so ashamed or something. Okay, so we did this project. We took on debt, whatever, like we worked our butts off to get rid of the debt and we did it. It took years but we did it and, like I'm very proud that we we were disciplined, we figured it out Like we work together as a team. It makes it makes us not only a stronger unit, but it makes us individually stronger. We know that we can confidently tackle big things that seem really insurmountable at times. Right, because it's stressful. But I would say that the film itself and I would encourage everyone to watch it. You can watch State of the Unity on Apple TV and you can watch it on Amazon Prime it's video on demand and you can watch it on Amazon Prime it's video on demand. Speaker 1: 46:51 Really it's not very expensive for a very an awesome experience. Speaker 2: 46:55 I recommend watching it. I think it's like what? $3.99 to rent it, or nine. Speaker 1: 46:59 On Amazon $3.99, $5.99, I think on Apple yeah. Speaker 2: 47:02 Okay, and it's the same, so that's hilarious. So go to Amazon, I guess, which I usually would, whatever. But go to Amazon, I guess, which I usually would, whatever. But you can watch State of the Union on there for $3.99 and it's cheaper than like a fancy latte. But the reason why I'm encouraging people to watch it is because if you want to see something that's real, if you want to see something that's authentic and transparent, then this is the film for you, and it's very uplifting, even with a backdrop that's looming uncertainty, right. The funny thing about the film for you and it's very uplifting, even with a backdrop that's looming uncertainty, right. Speaker 2: 47:33

The funny thing about the film is we shot the film in 2016. Well, we started filming in October, shot it in 2016, a couple pinches in 2017. There's little glimmery things in there from 2017, just the beginning of it that kind of gave some B-roll. But we are in not only the same situation in our country that we were then. So it's like educational in the sense of like, well, how the heck do we move forward? It's presenting some questions and through lines of how do we move forward together, but it's really starting a conversation around unity. It's starting a conversation around thinking about well, yeah, this is interesting, I guess, like what if we did do something different? Or how, what if we did approach people that we'd never talked to and we actually learned tools to peacefully talk to them. It's just kind of proposing this concept of unity in a new light, kind of proposing this concept of unity in a new light, that it's not homogeny but it's uplifting and it's really a journey of deep and undeniable and unshakable faith. We don't talk about any of this in the film, but I hope that when somebody watches the film and you see the journey and you see the struggles and you see us continue to show up in the face of adversity, in the face of disappointments and overall challenges, right, when we keep showing up, that is the faith that we not only have in humanity. Speaker 2: 49:06 So, like in our lowest moments, when you see the film, you will see people lift us up and when we want to give up, wild things happen, that that literally, in a way, feel like miraculous moments that were captured on film that could never happen again. Like certain things that we got on film were like wait, did this just happen? Like we turned down a street and we literally turned into something very, very cool that happened that changes the trajectory of what's to come. Or some person intercepts a low moment in the car by knocking on the window and saying, hey, like so what's the deal with your car? And that moment actually changed the course of that. Speaker 2: 49:48 Not only that day, but the film. It helped us. We wanted to give up, we wanted to quit. So you see these moments of not only faith in something much greater than ourselves the divine but then you see this faith that we have in other people and then the faith that we have in ourselves individually to keep going and in our love for each other to keep going, because our love was tested as well on this journey. Like holy smokes, are we gonna make it through this? This is really hard, you know, like sleeping in your car and doing these things. So it's just a very authentic film. Speaker 1: 50:21 We made it and fought hard to keep the authenticity in this film and fought hard to get it to where it is, where any of us can watch it right now. So, yes, I hope everybody goes and checks it out, and you've surely come out as different people on the other side and you're helping through this film to change people's lives as well. I think it's really, really cool. So, jillian, I have one last question that I ask every single person who comes on the podcast when do you see the magic in the world? Speaker 2: 50:52 where do you see the magic in the world? Oh my gosh, I see the magic in you. I see the magic in every person that I meet Inside of us, because we have this soul. That is the spark of light from the divine. It's in us already. It's around us, but for me, I see that it's just about opening up to that expanse and embracing it. So the magic is all around. It's all around every day. It's just about opening up to that expanse and embracing it. So the magic is all around. It's all around every day. It's when I'm walking and I see two people laughing on the street, walking together. It's when I'm in Heathrow Airport and I see two people run and hug each other. Magic is happening all the time. When we open our eyes, we'll see it everywhere, and it's these miracle moments that really make us feel like oh my gosh, connected to humanity. And it's so beautiful. And I encourage every single one of you to just embrace your authenticity and to go after your dreams, because the world needs more people whose hearts are on fire. Speaker 1: 51:46 Completely agree. And you're doing this. You have a retreat that you host once a year. You want to share that, and other where people can see you, even with the Bergamot where. How can people connect with you? Speaker 2: 51:56 Yes, thank you so much. And so I host a women's retreat that is 100% unplugged, so it's a digital detox in Glen Arbor, michigan, on Lake Michigan, crystal clear waters, and it's plant-based. It's fun, there's yoga, it's called Wild Wondrous Women and it is really about what we've been talking about today, jen. It's about untethering, it's about going after your dreams, becoming your authentic self, and I told you this before we went live on this podcast. But I hosted my first Wild Wondrous Women's Retreat in 2018. Speaker 2: 52:33 And after that retreat, I realized that women don't need to be empowered. And I know this might upset some people, because we a lot of times here like empowered women, empowered women. You know, I actually did the first retreat and I realized, no, women don't need to be empowered. That means, when you say that, it's almost suggesting that there's a lack inside of someone, like, oh, I need to empower this person. No, women are fully powerful as we are in this moment. Women need to be encouraged because women are so powerful and we have dimmed our lights to fit the mold. But what this whole retreat is about is about celebrating our divine femininity, our divine masculinity, and showing up fully for ourselves so that we can fully show up in the world. So everything that I curate for the Wild Wondrous Women's Retreat is all about this. I'm super stoked because it's happening this year on June 16th through the 19th and it's going to be

an absolute blast. Speaker 1: 53:38 Thank you for sharing about it. So where can people find you and connect with you if they're interested in that, if they're interested in State of the Unity? Well, we told them where they can go watch that, but where's the best place to connect with you? Speaker 2: 53:49 Yeah. So I would say I'm always on Instagram. You know you can say hi there. My name's Jillian Spies and I have Jillian Spies on Instagram, wildwondrouswomencom. I also run the Bergamot on Instagram and State of the Unity, so there's all these different fun things. So it's like do you like film? Do you like music? You know our band, the Bergamot. You can go on our website for our upcoming tour dates we're getting ready to drop those which are really excited and you can listen to us on Spotify. Our music is meant to uplift your spirit. It is kind of this juicy combination of folk with pop and rock elements. People often kind of say that we're alternative and it's just a joy to be able to share the songs that we write together with the world and also create these really safe spaces for people to come together and celebrate being alive. Speaker 1: 54:45 A little bit of Amy Grant influence in there. Maybe A little else should die. A little bit of Amy Grant influence in there, maybe. Speaker 2: 54:49 A little else should die. Speaker 1: 54:54 That is amazing, thank you, Jillian, so much for coming on the podcast. Thank you for sharing your light with the world and we're so grateful to have you come on and inspire us today. Speaker 2: 55:03 Jen, it was an absolute blast. I can't wait to talk again and keep shining on. Speaker 1: 55:08 Now I know you want to be best friends with Jillian, because I do too. She's so wonderful, she's such a sparkling ball of magic, just like you, and I hope that her story and her talk about consistency really inspires you and this idea of playfulness. It gets to be playful Even in the drudgery. That's actually the time that we can turn in and find our new level of playfulness. Even in those times where consistency is hard, even in those times when we want to give up, opening ourselves up and looking for an opportunity to have some little spark of fun is completely transformative. Now I'm going to pull out a little thread from this episode for Thursday's thread episode. So stay tuned so that you get to dive in a little bit deeper into this episode, into that thread that I pull out together. Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. It means the world to me, it means the world to Jillian, that you would listen. Speaker 1: 56:05 If you really love this episode, you can also share it on social media. Take a little screenshot of the episode itself. Share it on Instagram. Tag me. You can tag Jillian. Our links are in the show notes. I'm Untethered, jen. On Instagram she's Jillian Spies. If you tag us, we will always reshare your posts. Thank you again. So much for listening. You just keep shining your magical unicorn light out there for all to see. I'll see you next time Bye.