บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Episode 159 - Surprise

advise them because I I think a lot of students at our school are pushed in the direction of going to big firms, right? 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:58.560 If you're if you're going to a fancy law school, the school sort of makes it the default that unless you opt out, unless you jump off the conveyor belt, you're gonna end up at a big firm or clerkship or both. 00:03:58.719 --> 00:04:00.240 And for a lot of students, that's great. 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:01.759 Certainly financially, that's great. 00:04:01.919 --> 00:04:05.120 But for some students, that's not what they want or not where they should be, or they're not sure. 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:10.080 And so I try to help students figure out what they want to do and what matches their their short and long-term goals. 00:04:10.240 --> 00:04:18.160 And often I think sometimes working at a firm gets short shrift because even if you don't want to stay there long term, it can be really good for skill building and networking and building a resume. 00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:21.680 But try to help students figure out what they want to do and how to apply. 00:04:21.839 --> 00:04:26.959 The second thing is advising them on how to get it once they they want it in terms of how to do the networking. 00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:38.000 Uh, I'll review resumes, edit resumes, uh, we'll do practice interviews, probably do about a dozen of those a year, where especially with big if they're interviewing for big firms, because that's where I worked and did hiring. 00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:50.000 So, you know, sitting across from them and pretending to be the partner at such and such firm or the senior associate at another firm in LA or whatever, um, and really coaching them on the answers, but the same specificity that we would for, you know, motions luminee. 00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:57.120 But the biggest one, and I think this is what you alluded to, is actually trying to connect them with employers or recommending them or being a reference uh or call calling. 00:04:57.199 --> 00:04:59.439 And I've I've done cold calling and cold emails. 00:04:59.600 --> 00:05:08.879 And I I wonder if you've had the same experience, but I find that the longer I I have I'm in this job, one of the benefits is I know more people and I can help them in more ways. 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:16.720 And I was talking to somebody last week who's thinking about joining our community who wants to apply for a trial out job, and he's really young, he's super talented. 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:25.120 But I said, I might wait a couple of years because I think you're gonna find that one benefit of being a little older is you know more folks, and that means you're gonna be able to help your students get more jobs. 00:05:25.360 --> 00:05:26.319 Yeah, I I agree. 00:05:26.480 --> 00:05:29.600 I mean, the but the community as well is its own resource. 00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:35.040 I mean, I have definitely leaned on so many folks out there for this kind of connection, and I

can't tell you how much I appreciate it. 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:36.959 It's it's just fabulous, you know. 00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:39.839 But yeah, nicely broken down into three to three uh categories. 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:44.399 I I will um re respond with a Venn diagram because it's funny how I think about this. 00:05:44.480 --> 00:05:49.199 You know, in one circle is my own students who, you know, I'm you know frequently talking to about these things. 00:05:49.279 --> 00:05:57.120 But the other circle, which does overlap some, but not much, is, you know, I I talk to students all across the country about, you know, plaintiff's practice and all that stuff. 00:05:57.199 --> 00:06:08.079 Yesterday I spoke with, I think, three different folks about, you know, um, you know, what it looks like to be on the plaintiff's side and kind of helping them understand what the path might be for them because there's a lot of variation in it, obviously. 00:06:08.240 --> 00:06:08.959 So I don't know. 00:06:09.040 --> 00:06:12.959 I'm weirdly addicted to uh helping people along in that, in that way. 00:06:13.120 --> 00:06:15.040 So um, that's an addiction. 00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:15.920 I hope you never cure. 00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:17.120 Oh, that's so sweet of you. 00:06:17.199 --> 00:06:21.920 Um, have you listened to Shane Inspector's uh How to Get a Job You Really Love uh YouTube video? 00:06:22.160 --> 00:06:26.800 No, I've listened to his appearances on our show and on your show, Cause of Action. 00:06:26.959 --> 00:06:28.399 Oh, that's so sweet of you to mention that. 00:06:28.639 --> 00:06:29.759 Um I did interview him about it. 00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:31.680 And Spencer, where can people find cause of action? 00:06:31.839 --> 00:06:33.360 Oh, well, anywhere they listen to podcasts. 00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:35.680 Just search for cause of action with Spencer Paulkey. 00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:36.240 You'll find it. 00:06:36.399 --> 00:06:38.800 Um, that's such a wonderful organic plug there, Justin. 00:06:38.879 --> 00:06:39.120 Thank you. 00:06:39.279 --> 00:06:49.360 But um uh Shannon has on YouTube this really great talk that I really honestly should consider sharing with your students, uh, folks out there, where he talks about how you get a job that you really love. 00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:55.439 And it's not necessarily just the job on the plaintiff's side, but he has some really insightful strategies, which you know I talked with him more about on the show. 00:06:55.519 --> 00:06:56.720 So that's a good resource. 00:06:56.959 --> 00:06:59.519 Well, I can tell you from my personal experience how I did it. 00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:05.680 I I was sitting at home watching TV, eating lots of food, when a friend called and said, Do you want to do a podcast together? 00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:09.040 And that's how I got the job I really wanted. 00:07:09.759 --> 00:07:11.600 Fame and fortune, baby. 00:07:11.759 --> 00:07:12.000 Yeah. 00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:16.639 So anybody who who's looking to find their their calling, just sit around and wait. 00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:20.480 Watch TV, eat ice cream, and wait for the phone to ring. 00:07:21.040 --> 00:07:22.000 That's great. 00:07:22.240 --> 00:07:25.519 Um, shall we turn to something we like to call? 00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:26.240 Oh, right. 00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:27.040 We have an agenda. 00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:27.839 Yes, go ahead. 00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:29.759 The agenda on which next week. 00:07:29.920 --> 00:07:42.480 It's time for the largest fall invitational, the All-Star Bracket Challenge. 00:07:42.639 --> 00:07:45.360 The remaining 16 had their regional competition. 00:07:45.519 --> 00:07:52.399 The finalists were Hofstra and San Diego, and these two teams are headed in nationals in San Antonio, Drexel and St. 00:07:52.639 --> 00:07:53.199 Thomas. 00:07:53.360 --> 00:07:58.480 So the full nationals field is listen up, Arizona, Cumberland, Drexel, Houston, St. 00:07:58.639 --> 00:08:01.519 Thomas, two UCLA teams, and Western State. 00:08:01.759 --> 00:08:03.759 Spencer, you did that in alphabetical order. 00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:04.560 That's amazing. 00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:06.639 And I tend to do things like that on the fly. 00:08:06.800 --> 00:08:12.160 Um, yeah, I also added more energy because I realized that with Sam's music in the background, we can't just be kind you got you can't be flat. 00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:13.040 You gotta lean into this. 00:08:13.120 --> 00:08:15.439 You know, 159 episodes in, I'm figuring that out. 00:08:15.680 --> 00:08:16.240 Great job. 00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:16.800 Go. 00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:23.360 Uh, we also have results from college football, which we cover sporadically and conveniently. 00:08:23.439 --> 00:08:27.360 Uh, this week, Texas lost to an unranked Oklahoma team, which is weird. 00:08:27.519 --> 00:08:30.879 It's weird because I thought that this year, like every year, was their year. 00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:35.039 Um the the loss leaves them tied for eighth in the SEC. 00:08:35.200 --> 00:08:37.600 They need any more salt, or you got enough over there for the wound. 00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:38.000 You're good? 00:08:38.159 --> 00:08:38.559 Okay, you're good. 00:08:39.440 --> 00:08:40.080 I'm double checking. 00:08:40.159 --> 00:08:40.879 Yes, that is correct. 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:41.919 Eighth in the SEC. 00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:44.240 That's not eighth in the country, that's eighth in their conference. 00:08:44.399 --> 00:08:45.600 Maybe they don't belong in that conference. 00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:45.919 I don't know. 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:52.320 Cal defeated Virginia Tech in what many are calling an athletic triumph that now gives Cal a better conference record than Texas. 00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:52.720 All right. 00:08:52.799 --> 00:09:01.840 Uh UCLA had to play Oregon in Oregon and suffered the loss of their starting quarterback earlier in the game, but the Bruins found a way, earning one of the

season's signature wins while improving to 5-0. 00:09:02.080 --> 00:09:02.399 They did. 00:09:02.960 --> 00:09:04.639 Finally, congrats to you, Spencer. 00:09:04.720 --> 00:09:05.840 As Nebraska football. 00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:12.080 As Nebraska football also had one of its best games in recent memory, losing narrowly in a heartbreaking fashion at home. 00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:14.320 We definitely did, and we should have won that game. 00:09:14.399 --> 00:09:16.159 Um, we outplayed them the whole time. 00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:19.279 They may have ended up with more points, but it was like two plays. 00:09:19.519 --> 00:09:20.480 Who hasn't said that before? 00:09:20.559 --> 00:09:20.879 I get it. 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:21.600 Everybody says that. 00:09:21.919 --> 00:09:24.080 It's like a Nebraska football fortune cookie. 00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:25.039 No, no, no, no. 00:09:25.120 --> 00:09:27.360 We were way closer to winning than usual. 00:09:27.679 --> 00:09:28.480 We should have won. 00:09:28.639 --> 00:09:30.320 No, usually we shouldn't have. 00:09:30.799 --> 00:09:34.080 Or or the alternative uh Nebraska fortune cookie. 00:09:34.159 --> 00:09:35.120 We used to win. 00:09:36.320 --> 00:09:40.480 All right, let's uh recap the all-star bracket challenge a little bit here, Justin. 00:09:40.559 --> 00:09:44.799 Last week we talked about the unusual case design with a staged crime scene. 00:09:45.120 --> 00:09:46.879 What do you have in store for the nationals case? 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:47.840 People are dying to know. 00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:52.080 Well, uh, we just announced to the final eight teams uh two big case changes. 00:09:52.159 --> 00:09:53.039 We're excited about them. 00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:55.840 Number one, we've made a witness change. 00:09:56.080 --> 00:10:00.639 So the witness whose statement was included before, the alibi witness, is now a live witness. 00:10:00.720 --> 00:10:05.759 So we're changing one of the witnesses for nationals, and they are going to be a live witness uh played by students from St. 00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:06.080 Mary's. 00:10:06.399 --> 00:10:06.639 Very cool. 00:10:06.720 --> 00:10:07.440 Uh anything else? 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:08.240 Yes. 00:10:08.480 --> 00:10:12.960 So the other witness, so before the defense had two witnesses, the defendant and an expert. 00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:15.600 Now they're calling an alibi witness, so we they can't have three witnesses. 00:10:15.759 --> 00:10:18.639 So we're trying to figure out who should be the witness be. 00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:21.279 We thought, okay, we could pick one, pick the other, give them a choice. 00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:23.679 I'm like, no, actually, let's make this a little more realistic. 00:10:23.759 --> 00:10:27.360 In real life, the client decides whether they're gonna testify in a criminal case. 00:10:27.519 --> 00:10:28.559 The defendant gets to decide. 00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:31.759 And so we're gonna let the defendant exercise that choice independent of the lawyers. 00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:35.360 So before every round, there's gonna be a coin flip that is the defendant's choice. 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:38.240 Uh, heads the defendant says, I'm not testifying, the expert will. 00:10:38.399 --> 00:10:40.879 Tails, the defendant says, I am testifying, and the expert will not. 00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:45.039 So teams will not, yeah, teams won't know their witness calls until 15 minutes before trial. 00:10:45.200 --> 00:10:47.679 Oh, I was gonna say it was an audible, but it's not. 00:10:47.759 --> 00:10:49.840 It's it's it's determined by coin. 00:10:49.919 --> 00:10:51.840 You can't like strategically make the decision. 00:10:52.080 --> 00:10:52.480 That's right. 00:10:52.639 --> 00:10:53.360 Okay, I like it. 00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:54.480 So you got you gotta be ready for both. 00:10:54.559 --> 00:10:55.519 You don't know if your client's gonna test. 00:10:55.679 --> 00:10:56.879 Who knows which way that coin's gonna go? 00:10:56.960 --> 00:10:57.279 I like it. 00:10:57.519 --> 00:10:57.600 Yeah. 00:10:57.759 --> 00:11:02.240 Well, Justin, this week you had the chance to sit down with Dominique Hinson of McGeorge School of Law. 00:11:02.399 --> 00:11:04.320 Yeah, and Dominique and I chatted beforehand. 00:11:04.399 --> 00:11:09.919 I know that there's been a lot of questions about the program and some of the recent uh job postings. 00:11:10.159 --> 00:11:14.399 And uh she was willing to come on and and share how she's feeling and what's going on. 00:11:14.639 --> 00:11:15.840 Dominique Hinson. 00:11:21.039 --> 00:11:23.519 We welcome back to the show, Dominique Henson. 00:11:23.600 --> 00:11:24.559 Dominic, how are you doing? 00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:25.519 I'm so good. 00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:26.480 How are you doing? 00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:27.440 I'm doing great. 00:11:27.600 --> 00:11:29.440 Remind everybody where you work and what you do. 00:11:29.600 --> 00:11:35.440 Uh I work at the University of Pacific, McGeorge School of Law, and I am a law professor and one of the trial ad directors. 00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:38.480 We had a chance to hang out a little bit uh last week at first here. 00:11:38.639 --> 00:11:39.440 It was nice to see you. 00:11:39.679 --> 00:11:41.039 It was so good to see you. 00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:45.919 Uh, your team definitely kicked my team's butt in trivia, but let's make it well. 00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:52.559 At least you played fair uh because you had one team with you know more people than uh were allowed according to eligibility rules. 00:11:52.879 --> 00:11:56.720 Well, you know, we're at that point when people start forgetting the rules. 00:11:57.039 --> 00:11:59.440 My team, I think we were the personality hire. 00:11:59.679 --> 00:12:01.120 We called ourselves team personality hire. 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:04.799 And both of the advocates that I was working with advanced. 00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:05.919 So nice job. 00:12:06.159 --> 00:12:06.639 Shout out to

them. 00:12:06.879 --> 00:12:07.679 That's some real teaching. 00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:10.240 Yeah, that was Chapman and Denver. 00:12:10.559 --> 00:12:11.360 They were on my team. 00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:15.279 So you were in Orange County, you've now gotten to live in California for a few years. 00:12:15.440 --> 00:12:20.799 Uh, how would you compare the food in Sacramento to the food in in SoCal and San Francisco? 00:12:21.279 --> 00:12:29.600 Well, I'm still like not team California Mexican food, and I know that's controversial, but I have to remind you, I'm from San Antonio, Texas. 00:12:29.840 --> 00:12:32.080 Yeah, I wouldn't call it a controversy, I'd just say it's wrong. 00:12:32.559 --> 00:12:38.480 You know, I understand you're a foodie and you've got like you've got the restaurants down, you're the person everyone asks. 00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:40.240 It doesn't hit like Tex Mex. 00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:44.399 Like it's just it's not the same as real Mexican food. 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:46.559 It's it's a fine, you know. 00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:56.320 I think there are a lot of places that are like, I call them in LA and San Diego, hype beast places, long lines, mediocre food, but you can put it on your Instagram and so people like it. 00:12:56.480 --> 00:13:01.919 I'm talking about the taqueras, the hole in the wall places, San Diego, even those places, even those. 00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:03.600 But are they that great? 00:13:03.759 --> 00:13:05.840 You wanted me to wait two hours for that? 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:06.320 You can't. 00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:09.440 I remember last year at First Chair in San Diego. 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:18.000 Y'all have me waiting in line for like an hour and a half for these mid-tacos, as opposed to Tex Max, where it's just beans and cheese in a microwave. 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:20.320 That's that's very, very disrespectful. 00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:22.639 Uh been to Papacitos. 00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:23.919 Have you been? 00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:25.360 Which is not in San Antonio. 00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:25.679 That's me. 00:13:25.919 --> 00:13:27.200 Papacitos is very good. 00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:28.000 Yeah. 00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:31.120 Like if I miss anything from Texas, it's two things. 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:31.679 Yeah. 00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:33.679 Bumbo, queso. 00:13:33.919 --> 00:13:35.360 Everything else, I believe it. 00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:41.759 Dominique, I want to ask you about what's happening at McGeorge because I think people on the outside have a lot of questions. 00:13:41.840 --> 00:13:43.360 I'm sure you get that sense, right? 00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:46.480 I do get that sense from my texts and emails. 00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:58.639 So speaking of emails, uh, this past summer on July 29th, 2026, there's an email sent to the trial at listserv, and the title is McGeorge School of Law Seeks Director of Trial Advocacy. 00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:03.519 And I think a lot of people, when they got that email, including me, thought, I think Dominique has that job. 00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:07.519 And the email says that the school is looking for a director of trial advocacy. 00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:12.559 It said it might be tenured or might not be tenured, might be a contract uh deal, may not be. 00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:13.840 Did you draft that email? 00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:15.440 No, I did not draft that email. 00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:16.879 Did you know it was coming out? 00:14:17.120 --> 00:14:19.440 I had no idea it was going out at all. 00:14:19.679 --> 00:14:26.000 So when did you find out that McGeorge was advertising for a director of trial advocacy position while you were already McGeorge? 00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:30.799 Uh the first time I found out about it was before that was on the listserv. 00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:37.279 Someone had texted me that it popped up on LinkedIn, but I never heard that the job posting was going out. 00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:42.080 I never knew it was going on the listserv, and I never actually received notice about the application. 00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:49.279 How does the position that's described in the email and that's been posted publicly compare to the one that you currently have already? 00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:54.240 I would imagine that the person fulfilling that role would be doing the job that I'm doing right now. 00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:59.840 So, what was your reaction when you found out that McGeorge was posting this this job? 00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:01.360 Well, curious. 00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:02.639 I was curious about it. 00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:14.080 What I really want to say is actually some of the the real TLDR is uh last year I served as this interim director, and um this year they did not renew that stipend. 00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:15.519 So I was actually curious. 00:15:15.679 --> 00:15:19.440 Like I'm not technically a I don't have a contract as an associate director right now. 00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:21.840 I don't have a contract as a director in their eyes. 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:27.919 And so I think what happened in July when my interim stipend ended, they were like, well, we'll just let her keep doing the job. 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:32.000 She's stupid enough to do it, and um, we'll just hire someone else. 00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:34.559 So I'm not getting paid an interim stipend this year. 00:15:34.639 --> 00:15:38.960 So I do think it's a bit of a misrepresentation for me to say it's my job. 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:42.559 I think it's an accurate representation to say I am doing the job. 00:15:42.799 --> 00:15:43.759 I think that's what you said, right? 00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:44.879 Yeah, that is what I said. 00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:47.759 Okay, curious sounds like a muted answer. 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:48.639 Is that fair? 00:15:48.879 --> 00:15:49.840 It is fair. 00:15:51.039 --> 00:15:51.759 It is fair. 00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:54.240 I mean, how could you not be upset when you saw that?

00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:58.000 You know, um, in general, I am focused on the work. 00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:01.200 And anybody in our community will tell you I'm good for politicking. 00:16:01.360 --> 00:16:06.000 And I know that is a stump speech, and that is a good answer, but it is the right answer and it's the true answer. 00:16:06.159 --> 00:16:07.600 You know, I have a lot of work to do. 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:14.320 Um, we have ethics coming, we have other things going on, and um I'm really committed to the students in that program. 00:16:14.559 --> 00:16:24.639 There have been lots of changes, you know, there have been lots of different people at the top, and that might be reflective of other focuses, but mine is on the team and the students in my class. 00:16:24.879 --> 00:16:30.799 When you say change the top, you mean Jay and Carrie, then Annie, then Reza, then you, and now Simone. 00:16:31.039 --> 00:16:31.440 Yes. 00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:35.600 And that's that's all within about a what six-year period, seven-year period? 00:16:35.840 --> 00:16:36.080 Yeah. 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:38.159 So that email was sent in July. 00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:41.120 What, if anything, can you tell us about what's happening now? 00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:44.879 Um, I have no clue in terms of um the administration. 00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:52.159 I haven't been brought into the loop in any of um the happenings, but in terms of the team, uh, a busy competition season. 00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:54.399 Can I ask, did you apply for the role? 00:16:54.720 --> 00:16:56.960 Uh no, I did not submit an application. 00:16:57.279 --> 00:16:59.919 Dominique, I don't think any of the questions are a surprise. 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:03.840 You and I chatted before you came on, and I I'd asked you if uh if you want to come on. 00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:05.279 I thought it'd be a great idea. 00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:07.039 And you thought so too. 00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:07.680 Why? 00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:09.920 What was it that you wanted people to know? 00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:17.039 Well, like I see my own life as a reflection of the whole system of advocacy. 00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:27.680 Like, I've served in so many different roles um as a student, as a director, and all the things like so many of us have, but um as directors, we are also growing professionally. 00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:31.440 We're going from practitioners to learning how to navigate academia. 00:17:31.680 --> 00:17:34.000 And I am learning how to navigate academia. 00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:36.960 And um what I'm going through, it's already public. 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:38.559 People already wonder. 00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:58.880 And uh if I can shed light and I can support people in navigating programs that make sense for them, roles that make sense for them, being honest about how interview processes look and um the nuance of the institution of academia that is very different than our practice, then I want to do that. 00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:08.480 You know, this summer at the same time that the job posting was put up without me knowing is when Liz Bowles reached out and asked for me to serve as her president-elect in Melee. 00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:19.759 And I thought, well, this is one of those opportunities that I can help light the path for other professionals who want to make the job of teaching advocacy um part of their profession. 00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:26.160 And so I want to fill in the gaps and I want to help people do what they love and make a profession of it. 00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:30.160 And I find myself in an interesting situation and I have to be honest about it. 00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:33.039 It's easier to shed light than to leave people wondering. 00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:40.799 So I think you you raise a good point because a lot of people who join our trial advocacy education community were practitioners. 00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:45.599 I think almost all of us were practitioners before we were full-time faculty or even part-time faculty. 00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:52.480 And the world is very different in academia than it is at law firms or DA's offices or public defenders' offices. 00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:56.079 What advice would you give to people on the administrative side? 00:18:56.319 --> 00:19:02.400 Because we often talk about teaching or coaching or running a team, but what about dealing with the administration? 00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:08.480 Can you give any concrete advice to people who are just starting out in this world about how to navigate that lesser talked about side? 00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:21.920 Well, I think the first thing to remember is that most of us as practitioners come in as coaches with some shared experience as a law student and you just you love it and you find all this purpose and all of that is real. 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:31.839 But when you get into the job, you have to remember you are in a profession with other people who this is their career, and maybe purpose is not the only consideration. 00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:35.759 So you have to now navigate new politics, new priorities. 00:19:35.920 --> 00:19:43.039 You have to understand if your administration's priorities for experiential learning for an advocacy program match yours. 00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:45.920 Do they support coaches in the way that you want to support coaches? 00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:49.119 Do they invest in advocacy in the way that you want to? 00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:51.119 Because if not, you may find tension. 00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:55.440 Um, and I don't think that administrations always know what they're looking for from a program. 00:19:55.680 --> 00:20:05.200 Every time we go to EATS or anytime we go to TAC, anytime we're all together, we discuss that tension of uh our goals and administrative goals. 00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:08.799 And those don't always uh land at the same place. 00:20:09.039 --> 00:20:12.640 And uh so my goal is to help people

continue to navigate that. 00:20:12.799 --> 00:20:17.519 And the first thing is really understanding the institution that you're applying to. 00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:19.759 What are their goals for your job? 00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:22.319 You may have an understanding and theirs may be different. 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:25.039 And it will help you decide: is this the program for me? 00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:26.400 Is this the school for me? 00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:32.640 Um my understanding is there's some institutions who see uh our roles as faculty roles. 00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:35.680 There are some schools who will never see our roles as faculty roles. 00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:36.640 And you gotta know that. 00:20:36.799 --> 00:20:38.720 And you have to know where your own goals are. 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:41.839 Do you intend to continue practicing while doing this job? 00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:45.200 Do you intend on growing as a professor and doing this job? 00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:52.559 Do you want to take on and adopt this particular administration's um goals for their school and the institution? 00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:54.480 Do they align with your values? 00:20:54.799 --> 00:21:07.440 Are you, do you have the same conviction uh to withstand whatever is being thrown at you and being willing to uh represent that um, those goals, your administration's decisions? 00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:10.480 Can you stand beside those and adopt them as your own? 00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:18.240 And that's a different, you know, I was a bright-eyed former coach when I first started in academia, and I had no idea what I was in for. 00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:22.640 And I've had to make lots of decisions um with my conviction first. 00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:24.079 And that's not always easy. 00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:36.000 And I I know that I can politic or I can make things sound graceful, but the intersection of this really good purpose work we do as coaches, turn directors, um, it affects our careers too. 00:21:36.079 --> 00:21:37.279 And we gotta be wise about it. 00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:44.319 And those are some of the things I hope I can um continue to shine a light on and help those doing the good work do it really well. 00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:52.960 I think one thing that's hard about people in our profession is the lack of mobility that's available in in the job. 00:21:53.119 --> 00:22:09.680 For example, if you're working at, say, a civil law firm in a mid sized or large city and you don't love the way you're Being treated, it's really easy to go across town or across the street because there's multiple civil law firms, often lots of civil law firms, and they probably have the kind of practice that you have. 00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:17.920 But if you are somebody who wants to make a career and a life out of teaching advocacy skills at a law school, there's often not another job in town. 00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:20.720 Not every school has these full-time opportunities. 00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:23.359 And those that do, people often stay there for a while. 00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:31.680 And you might be in a situation where if you want to switch uh schools, it requires uplifting uh your your whole life, right? 00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:34.640 Moving to another city, another state, maybe across the country. 00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:38.000 I mean, you moved from Texas to Northern California. 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:47.920 Um I think it speaks to how much people want these jobs, but also when they're there, it it can be tough to deal with challenges because you don't have a lot of leverage. 00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:48.960 It's so true. 00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:57.359 Um, and such a there's there's such a disconnect in the changing of the profession, the changing of education, uh, our industry in general. 00:22:57.519 --> 00:23:01.599 Um, and those are sacrifices that you have to consider, you know. 00:23:01.759 --> 00:23:05.359 I ask myself, you know, people were so surprised when I left Texas. 00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:13.519 And I was very um, I was very quiet about it because I was very sad to leave my students, very sad to leave my alma mater. 00:23:13.839 --> 00:23:19.440 And I couldn't, I couldn't take the uh, I couldn't take however other people would feel about it, right? 00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:22.160 So I just left very quietly, just moved across the country. 00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:24.240 And uh since then it's all been wonderful. 00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:28.319 And all of my former students, they'd see me at competitions and it's all love. 00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:30.880 Um, but it's a tough sacrifice. 00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:41.440 Um, but our roles as advocacy directors, even more so I think, than other professors, perhaps I'm biased, is we are in the wings of really helping people professionally develop. 00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:47.920 You know, I've had students who um we deal with the hard stuff, discrimination at work, discrimination by judges. 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:51.200 Um, how do you handle a boss who's harassing you? 00:23:51.279 --> 00:23:57.759 You know, we tend to get that, we're that thread from law school to helping you navigate the career. 00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:02.559 And um, so I find my own experience mirroring where they're gonna be. 00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:06.799 You know, I look at my students and I say, I'm calling you from 15 years from now. 00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:13.039 You know, this I am your future, you know, and uh I I want to help you navigate it as best as possible. 00:24:13.119 --> 00:24:15.920 And my hope is that with Nayle, I can do the same. 00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:27.920 So, you know, I'm asking lots of questions, learning what people find interesting about it, um, or about the the the uh teaching of advocacy, what they want to see, how we can help people do it better. 00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:31.119 Um, because sometimes, you know, it's a different path. 00:24:31.279 --> 00:24:34.319 Academia

is a totally different path than the practice of law. 00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:40.079 And uh I want to make it easier for those who want to do that to get to do it and to help our students. 00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:45.680 You've only got two years, you know, you've only got so long with them before they're right out and we throw them out into the wild. 00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:48.960 So I don't like to waste that time and I don't like to squander it. 00:24:49.119 --> 00:24:55.440 And I've had to make hard choices in my life to make sure I can do my work exactly as I am intended to do it. 00:24:55.839 --> 00:24:58.559 I want to talk about uh one of your colleagues. 00:24:58.640 --> 00:25:00.960 Uh, tell everybody who joined the school this year. 00:25:01.359 --> 00:25:05.680 Oh, I have the pleasure of working with Simone Lighty, who is helping lead the program this year. 00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:06.960 And who is Simone? 00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:09.519 Simone is a graduate of McGeorge. 00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:12.799 She is a two-time Top Gun advocate. 00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:16.400 She went her 2L year and she wanted her 3L year. 00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:24.160 Um, and she just represents uh that student who you know early on is meant to help lead a program. 00:25:24.319 --> 00:25:32.480 Um, I certainly didn't have the chops that Simone did when I was in law school, but in terms of demotion, she certainly uh reminds me of parts of myself in many ways. 00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:36.559 So Simone went from coaching to a full-time role there. 00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:38.480 What is her current position at May George? 00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:42.799 She is a visiting professor and she's teaching a few classes. 00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:50.400 Um, she's helping run the mock trial team and uh host competitions and really is my right hand. 00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:54.240 I love when schools call it visiting professor because she was in Sacramento before. 00:25:54.319 --> 00:25:55.200 She's still in Sacramento. 00:25:55.279 --> 00:25:58.559 I'm not sure it's really a visit, uh, but I but I understand the title. 00:25:59.039 --> 00:26:04.480 So tell us something fun about Simone because every time I see her, she's upbeat, enthusiastic. 00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:09.039 She's got that uh the mentality of somebody who's new at this, and she's like, I just can't get enough. 00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:13.279 Uh, tell us something non-mock trial or trial ad related about Simone. 00:26:13.519 --> 00:26:15.680 Harry Potter nerd, huge Harry Potter nerd. 00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:16.799 We share that. 00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:19.759 Um and she's getting married tomorrow. 00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:23.599 So at the time of this, she's not married, but she will be married. 00:26:23.680 --> 00:26:31.680 Um, but is a huge Harry Potter nerd and um has little things all around her office, little Funko pops and stuff. 00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:33.839 When I saw her at first chair, I asked her a question. 00:26:33.920

--> 00:26:35.759 I think I knew the answer before she before she gave it. 00:26:35.839 --> 00:26:40.799 I said, Are you getting are you doing your honeymoon uh right after the wedding in the middle of semester, or are you gonna wait till the end of the semester? 00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:46.799 And of course the answer is at the end of the semester, probably, probably at the end of competition season altogether. 00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:47.279 Right. 00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:50.480 She's not gonna get uh get married in the middle of of tournament season. 00:26:50.559 --> 00:26:55.359 Um, but I understand that her her fiance, soon to be husband, has a similar competition schedule. 00:26:55.599 --> 00:27:08.880 Yes, and I think that's really probably if I had to give anyone a good marriage advice, it'd probably be find someone who has uh an equally challenging competition season schedule so that you can just take your vacations at an obscure time. 00:27:09.039 --> 00:27:10.880 I I I like that that's very specific advice. 00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:13.440 Usually people say, you know, find somebody who's a good communicator. 00:27:13.519 --> 00:27:15.839 And you said find someone who has a similar competition schedule. 00:27:16.240 --> 00:27:19.279 It's very very niche marriage advice. 00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:24.240 We were leaving first chair, and the students said, So uh do you have everything you need for your wedding? 00:27:24.319 --> 00:27:25.599 She's like, I haven't thought about that yet. 00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:27.599 I gotta get the competition. 00:27:27.920 --> 00:27:29.200 So let's talk about Nele. 00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:31.680 Um, when do you become president of Nele? 00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:33.759 One step at a time, Justin. 00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:35.039 One step at a time. 00:27:35.200 --> 00:27:46.079 Uh over the summer, uh, you know, Liz Bowles and the rest of the team asked if I would um consider joining uh the board, the executive board as president-elect this year. 00:27:46.160 --> 00:27:48.319 And so I gracefully said yes. 00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:50.799 And I'm so gracious and excited to work with them. 00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:52.480 So we're gonna take it one year at a time. 00:27:52.640 --> 00:27:52.880 Okay. 00:27:52.960 --> 00:27:54.960 Well, then let's do this this first year. 00:27:55.039 --> 00:27:57.759 Uh tell me about your your campaign for president. 00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:00.880 Uh, what what were what were your what was your campaign slogan? 00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:06.480 So I to really to answer that question, I I want to go back to Eats June. 00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:08.240 We're all in Florida. 00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:10.559 And I actually asked Liz Bowles that question. 00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:12.720 I said, how did you how did you get on the board? 00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:15.440 She said, a moment of weakness and they got me. 00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:20.079 And so I think I would say the same, a moment of weakness and they got me. 00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:25.359 Um, no, but for real, uh, when Liz reached out, I thought to myself, first answer was absolutely not. 00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:30.880 Um, but then I thought everything that I've done in our advocacy world, it's because somebody saw it in me before I saw it in myself. 00:28:31.039 --> 00:28:35.759 Going to South Texas, coming to McGeorge, uh, joining Nayle, joining Nita. 00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:39.680 And so sometimes people can see your gifts that you don't always necessarily see in yourself. 00:28:39.839 --> 00:28:48.640 And uh, so yeah, I I didn't have a campaign, but I'm excited to join and add some value to other programs and and help people do what they do better. 00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:52.160 So in the interim, are you vice president? 00:28:52.240 --> 00:29:01.279 Like, you know, if if Liz Bowles uh is is you know stuck writing uh larvae articles and unable to fulfill her job as president of Melee. 00:29:01.359 --> 00:29:02.640 Uh, do you get sworn in? 00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:03.440 How does that work? 00:29:03.759 --> 00:29:05.839 You can send all your complaints to me at that point. 00:29:05.920 --> 00:29:06.160 Yes. 00:29:06.319 --> 00:29:09.039 You can send all of your complaints to me. 00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:14.559 And if they're NTC related, I'm just going to send them straight over to Tim Adams so that everyone can beat him up. 00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:19.359 But I I would be the honorary uh punching bag if Liz Bowles was not around. 00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:19.680 Yes. 00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:20.240 Okay. 00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:24.799 I'll I'll pause the teasing on Nayle and ask you this. 00:29:25.039 --> 00:29:26.960 In less than a year, you will be president. 00:29:27.279 --> 00:29:28.480 What are your goals? 00:29:28.720 --> 00:29:31.599 Concrete, tangible things you'd like to do during your term? 00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:34.799 Well, I want to get through what Liz's goals are first. 00:29:35.039 --> 00:29:42.880 And, you know, it's to bring real value to my goal, I can tell you right now, is to bring new value to new members and new directors. 00:29:43.039 --> 00:29:47.839 Uh, at Eats this year, we had a ton of people who were first-time participants. 00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:53.119 And I think that says so much about the change of guard that's happening at a lot of schools. 00:29:53.440 --> 00:29:58.960 Um there are newer people who are getting roles as professors, new people who are getting roles as directors. 00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:06.319 And I see it like there's we all love the magical moment at competition where you get to see your students do the bright and shiny thing. 00:30:06.559 --> 00:30:08.880 Um, but it takes so much work to get there. 00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:14.960 And so, how to build a program, how to deal with coaches effectively, how to train coaches up. 00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:20.240 Um, what are some of the back end things that we can do to help people run their program well, right?

00:30:20.319 --> 00:30:31.759 Like the moment of competition is the magical moment that there were so many hours that took in the background, whether it's competition hosting as someone who's bringing the learning experience. 00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:45.440 Um, I'm concerned about having um ballots that make sense, helping those who run competitions that maybe aren't as popular, how we can help them um have best practices in their competitions. 00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:54.880 I know there are a lot of student-run competitions that people run away from or stray from because we know that if it's not a Justin Bernstein competition, it's not gonna be run as well. 00:30:55.039 --> 00:30:55.279 You know? 00:30:55.519 --> 00:30:57.279 Wow, flattery will get you everywhere. 00:30:57.599 --> 00:31:00.240 Flattery will get you so far, but it's true. 00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:09.599 Like there's a there's an honest um conundrum that you you're you're faced with as a director when you look at your limited budget and you think, where am I gonna send my students? 00:31:09.759 --> 00:31:15.920 And you want to send them to a competition that you know is run well, that the case file is balanced, that there's gonna be judges. 00:31:16.160 --> 00:31:29.200 And I hope to take my time in Nayla and on the competition side, maybe help those who don't have competitions that have as well of a you know, running machine, make those competitions better to create more access. 00:31:29.599 --> 00:31:42.640 Those who want to have their own intramural competitions, maybe your budget is more constrained and you need more opportunities, you know, um, alternatively uh creating some more social opportunities for us to just ask questions. 00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:58.960 So myself and the other vice presidents are testing right now what level of frequency we would want to have meetings where people can just log in and get advice, um, kind of have those brainstorming sessions like we have at the beginning of EATS in the mornings, where you can just kind of workshop issues. 00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:06.240 Um, there's so many people who have helped me uh through running competitions or dealing with different things that have arisen. 00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:20.559 And so creating a space where people can do that more often at the right frequency and um create better learning opportunities for their students and maybe take some ease off of new directors is something I'm really focused on. 00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:21.759 I think it just helps. 00:32:22.160 --> 00:32:24.880 In addition to Nayle, I know you're really involved with Nita. 00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:26.480 What are you doing with Nita these days? 00:32:26.799 --> 00:32:33.680 With Nita, I uh I had the pleasure of serving as faculty for so many cool programs, going to San Diego. 00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:45.200 Um just did some public service programs in Atlanta where we got to serve, I think, over 100 attorneys and offer totally free services to people across public interest. 00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:55.279 Um there's a public interest international program that I get the honor to serve as faculty for in November, and that's in South Africa, and it focuses on human rights and strategic litigation. 00:32:55.599 --> 00:33:10.000 Um and so I'm just Nita gives me the opportunity to explore where the things that we teach at the law school level, where they continue to grow, where we continue to have more need, how what we do makes sense in the grand scheme of practice. 00:33:10.160 --> 00:33:10.960 And I just love it. 00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:12.319 I'm having so much fun. 00:33:12.559 --> 00:33:24.480 One of the coolest things I think about you taking over as the next president of ETH next year, I know you don't want to get ahead of yourself, but when you're the next president, you'll be coming in with a background in moot and mock, right? 00:33:24.559 --> 00:33:33.279 You were the uh moot court appellate director at South Texas, you're now the trial director at McGeorge, and Nele covers both and ADR. 00:33:33.359 --> 00:33:38.559 I don't really know what alternative dispute resolution is, except I want the disputes because otherwise I've been on trials. 00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:42.480 But you have a really uh varied and deep background. 00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:47.279 How do you see those two groups, moot and mock, coming together under Nele? 00:33:47.599 --> 00:33:51.359 Or do you really see them as two separate things with different sets of goals? 00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:53.599 I think they share the same goals. 00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:55.440 They highlight different skills. 00:33:55.680 --> 00:34:06.960 And so where I see the value is um helping on the moot court side, doing the mock trial side is we're all developing trial, we're all developing skills that lawyers should have with their clients. 00:34:07.039 --> 00:34:10.239 The ability to answer questions, the ability to put on a case. 00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:16.079 Uh, where I see the value is in helping people create the system for someone to develop those skills. 00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:20.559 Like I don't, I'm not the most skilled and experienced lawyer in the world. 00:34:20.639 --> 00:34:22.880 And I don't think that any of us are as good coaches. 00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:27.599 But as a good coach, you are imparting skills, learning how to be a good educator. 00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:41.119 So where I see my sweet spot in having done both is recognizing the form and the job that you need in Moot Court, some of those background skills and how those look different in each, but helping people build systems. 00:34:41.280 --> 00:34:46.719 Like every practitioner is coming in with their skills of how to be responsive, how to be compelling. 00:34:46.960 --> 00:34:48.719 But do you know how to get coaches? 00:34:48.880 --> 00:34:50.639 Do you know how to ensure that they stay? 00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:55.920 Do you know how to build out a good tryout

system, not burn yourself out? 00:34:56.079 --> 00:35:00.559 If you've got a little budget, do you know how to create learning opportunities for your students? 00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:04.079 So to me, it's much more about the ecosystem of what advocacy is. 00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:09.440 There's skill development, which is one portion, then there is the program and your foundation. 00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:11.519 How do you make money for your program? 00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:13.760 How do you uh raise funds? 00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:15.280 How do you retain people? 00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:18.400 How do you get your alumni engaged and staying around? 00:35:18.559 --> 00:35:20.239 What is the identity of your school? 00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:23.360 And those are questions that I have learned to ask more, right? 00:35:23.519 --> 00:35:25.519 What is it that your goal is for your school? 00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:30.320 Um, at Eats, I got to talk about breaking into academia, but that's an important question, right? 00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:36.559 As we all transition into these different parts of our careers as educators, do you know what kind of program you're getting into? 00:35:36.719 --> 00:35:39.760 Does it align with you and can you drive those goals forward? 00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:41.840 Um, and does your school understand the difference? 00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:45.679 Does your school want just championships and want the best of the best? 00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:48.880 Or do you have impact in the community that you're in, right? 00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:51.840 Like I think about where McGeorge is strategically placed, right? 00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:54.000 Between here and LA, it's just farmland. 00:35:54.079 --> 00:35:55.679 There aren't a lot of accredited law schools. 00:35:55.840 --> 00:35:56.800 Like, what's your goal? 00:35:56.960 --> 00:35:59.920 Is it to impact and make trial-ready attorneys? 00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:02.320 Um, but then how do we create the system to do all of that? 00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:13.440 So my hope in Nayle is to help directors and help coaches have solid systems to have the magical moments of a great competition or to win a championship. 00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:15.920 I think people miss the administrative side. 00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:18.559 And I have the benefit of being raised by Haley Stenhouse. 00:36:18.639 --> 00:36:25.360 And anyone who has ever gotten an email from Haley knows that that woman is so methodical and so organized. 00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:40.480 And it's she's really opened my mind and over the years, I think trained me to understand all of that background stuff has to be done well for your students to have a really good outcome in their competitions and for your coaches to appreciate it too. 00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:42.400 I want to ask you about one more thing. 00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:51.119 Um, if folks want to hear your voice even more after they listen to this episode, I understand they're soon gonna have a new way to do that uh on FM radio. 00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:53.840 Yes, uh, I'm working on a radio show. 00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:55.440 I will send the details out later. 00:36:55.519 --> 00:36:59.360 Uh, we're still in the process of negotiating, figuring out the frequency. 00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:08.559 But I think I'm gonna have a five o'clock hour uh once a week uh here in Sacramento on FM radio, deciding and figuring out how to stream that online. 00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:12.239 But yeah, Justin, I want to, I want to talk, I want to yap. 00:37:12.400 --> 00:37:21.599 And um the same way we teach students to translate complex ideas, I do seek to motivate students and and anybody uh to hear a different perspective. 00:37:21.760 --> 00:37:28.159 You know, I like laughing, I like to cuss a little, uh, I like to have fun, and uh, I miss radio. 00:37:28.239 --> 00:37:33.199 And uh I'm super excited to get back on air and you know, talk a little shit. 00:37:33.440 --> 00:37:34.559 Uh I love it. 00:37:34.639 --> 00:37:37.440 Um that's a little vague, so I wouldn't be doing my job. 00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:40.400 Well, no, I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't ask some follow-ups. 00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:41.840 We'll see if I can get some answers. 00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:45.119 Uh, what is the name of your upcoming show? 00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:46.639 Oh, I can't share that yet. 00:37:48.400 --> 00:37:50.960 You said we, who are your co-hosts? 00:37:51.199 --> 00:37:54.480 Uh, I have two co-hosts that are here in Sacramento. 00:37:54.639 --> 00:37:57.679 Um, one is an attorney, one is not. 00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:01.920 Um, so yeah, I I'll I'll let us reveal ourselves later. 00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:02.320 Okay. 00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:05.360 What would you say is the topic of your upcoming show? 00:38:05.679 --> 00:38:11.119 Oh, you know, I'm at the intersection of law, culture, politics, economics. 00:38:11.280 --> 00:38:21.679 Um, in all seriousness, uh, I think about my job, and this is not a question that you asked, but uh, this young man right here on this cover is is someone I'll be working with on the pod. 00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:25.679 But I think about my job as a professor, and I think about where I find myself now. 00:38:25.760 --> 00:38:27.519 And I'm like, wow, how did I get here? 00:38:27.679 --> 00:38:33.840 How did I, how did I end up in this role where um people can, it's so far from practicing law. 00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:42.559 And I think about the role as a professor, particularly in the realm of advocacy, as one that also needs to continue to share and translate ideas. 00:38:42.800 --> 00:38:53.280 And um, I've got lots of those really dense topics that I seek to make fun, to make interesting, and to keep people uh awake and conscious to what is going on around us. 00:38:53.519 --> 00:38:58.960 Um at the five o'clock hour, which is my challenge, just like we tell students, can you say interesting? 00:38:59.199 --> 00:39:01.679 Can you say

things in a way that people understand? 00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:04.719 And that is the translating that um I'm gonna try to do. 00:39:04.880 --> 00:39:05.760 You'll see. 00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:12.639 So when the unnamed podcast comes out, um, will there be an email on the listserv letting us all know? 00:39:14.239 --> 00:39:16.960 And this and this time, will you be the one sending it? 00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:18.480 Woo boy. 00:39:18.719 --> 00:39:20.159 Um you know what? 00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:23.039 When I start my radio show, I will drop it in the listserv. 00:39:23.199 --> 00:39:24.239 I'll be happy to do that. 00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:24.880 Awesome. 00:39:25.119 --> 00:39:26.559 Dominique, thanks for coming back on. 00:39:26.639 --> 00:39:27.199 We appreciate it. 00:39:27.280 --> 00:39:28.079 It's always good to chat. 00:39:28.480 --> 00:39:29.440 Always good to chat. 00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:30.719 Thank you for having me, Justin. 00:39:35.440 --> 00:39:41.199 We'll have to make a little surprise for you here, a guy who is uh not new to the podcast, been around a few times. 00:39:41.360 --> 00:39:42.480 Perhaps you've heard of him. 00:39:42.559 --> 00:39:44.559 Uh Jared Rosenblatt from Hopstra. 00:39:44.800 --> 00:39:46.639 Oh my gosh, it's an amazing surprise. 00:39:46.880 --> 00:39:49.440 I had no idea from the calendar invite I sent. 00:39:52.320 --> 00:39:53.199 Love him, Jared. 00:39:53.280 --> 00:39:53.599 I love him. 00:39:53.679 --> 00:39:54.559 Here's Jared. 00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:02.159 Welcome back to the show, Hopstra is Jared Rosenblatt. 00:40:02.320 --> 00:40:02.639 Welcome here. 00:40:02.800 --> 00:40:03.519 Thanks for having me. 00:40:03.760 --> 00:40:04.960 It's great to have you on, Jared. 00:40:05.039 --> 00:40:07.360 Uh, before we started, I asked if you had anything to complain about. 00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:09.679 And you said no, which disappointed me. 00:40:09.760 --> 00:40:11.840 And so I said, well, could you complain about something? 00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:13.039 And then we clicked record. 00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:14.079 So what do you got? 00:40:14.320 --> 00:40:16.880 You said, would you rec complain about something? 00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:18.000 And I said, sure. 00:40:18.639 --> 00:40:19.519 Great, let's go. 00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:20.800 So here's my complaint. 00:40:20.960 --> 00:40:23.760 I I got conned into buying these new eyeglasses. 00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:28.159 And the new eyeglasses turn, uh, they darken when you're outside. 00:40:28.239 --> 00:40:29.840 But my view is of the window. 00:40:29.920 --> 00:40:33.760 So when I stare at Zoom, it appears that I'm Stevie Wonder. 00:40:33.920 --> 00:40:38.719 So now every time I do a zoom, I have to switch my freaking glasses so I don't look like an idiot. 00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:39.440 That's pretty good. 00:40:39.519 --> 00:40:40.239 That's a good one. 00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:41.039 That is good. 00:40:41.280 --> 00:40:42.079 That's my complaint. 00:40:42.400 --> 00:40:44.000 It's not because we're getting older though, right? 00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:47.440 That it's it's just this is a separate eye thing, has nothing to do with aging, I'm assuming. 00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:48.480 No, no, no. 00:40:48.800 --> 00:40:51.840 And I and I went into the appointment not wanting these. 00:40:55.679 --> 00:40:58.800 Yes, and now that you have them, you still don't want them. 00:40:59.119 --> 00:41:00.079 No, I don't. 00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:01.920 I don't want them anymore. 00:41:03.360 --> 00:41:08.320 Well, Jared, uh condolence in the glasses, but congrats on the start of the season. 00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:09.360 You guys have been excellent. 00:41:09.440 --> 00:41:17.280 Um, and I think even stronger than it might look on paper because you guys were fifth at first chair, just missed the break, fifth at Battle of the Experts, just missed the break. 00:41:17.360 --> 00:41:22.559 And this past weekend your team was a regional finalist, you lost two to one against a previously undefeated Drexel team. 00:41:22.639 --> 00:41:24.559 Uh so congrats on a great start to the fall. 00:41:24.800 --> 00:41:25.280 Thank you. 00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:32.639 Uh it's unfortunate we're not playing horseshoes or hand grenades because we are close and uh didn't really end up with anything. 00:41:32.800 --> 00:41:38.559 But the the students have have been great and their work over the summer uh is showing in their results. 00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:43.360 Do you tell them, guys, it's not about the Gavel rankings, it's about improvement in education. 00:41:43.679 --> 00:41:45.440 Uh twice a day. 00:41:46.320 --> 00:41:51.760 Are you forced to say that according to some like personal consent decree or some therapy goal or something? 00:41:52.639 --> 00:41:57.360 Yeah, I've I've uh if you notice behind me are books on self-improvement. 00:41:57.519 --> 00:41:59.360 So um I see I see bubbles. 00:41:59.599 --> 00:42:01.039 All their heads are bobbling. 00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:03.679 They're shaking their head no. 00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:04.800 I see yeses. 00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:06.880 I think it's affirmation myself. 00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:11.840 Every time I walk by, half for shaking yes and half for shaking no. 00:42:12.239 --> 00:42:13.840 Maybe it's the glasses. 00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:15.280 They don't like it. 00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:16.159 All right. 00:42:16.239 --> 00:42:18.800 You're hosting Tournament of Champions next weekend. 00:42:18.960 --> 00:42:20.400 You volunteered to do it. 00:42:20.559 --> 00:42:21.039 Why? 00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:24.079 Well, volunteered is an interesting choice of words. 00:42:24.320 --> 00:42:33.840 I uh I was told that uh the winners were looking for alternative uh locations, and I was willing to do that. 00:42:34.079 --> 00:42:36.559 I think it's a good opportunity to showcase the school. 00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:43.519 Um, we're looking forward to have everybody on Long Island and eat some good Italian food

and and have some good trials. 00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:47.599 Uh speaking of the Italian food, I've heard from people who've been to your competitions in person. 00:42:47.679 --> 00:42:51.280 We've only been online, that you go to Borelli's, a great Italian restaurant. 00:42:51.360 --> 00:42:52.480 Uh, what should I order? 00:42:52.559 --> 00:42:54.320 Or is this sort of like a family style situation? 00:42:54.400 --> 00:42:57.679 Tell me what I need to know because I'm gonna spend most of my time preparing for that meal. 00:42:58.000 --> 00:42:59.199 The answer is yes. 00:42:59.360 --> 00:43:02.559 Um it is it is a buffet, come hungry. 00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:09.360 They'll bring you whatever you want uh in addition to the buffet as well, if you let them know that uh you're friends with Frank. 00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:13.360 And the the the food's great. 00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:17.920 Uh it's uh they put a hundred people in a room meant for 80. 00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:19.039 So it is warm. 00:43:19.199 --> 00:43:19.440 Perfect. 00:43:19.679 --> 00:43:21.599 It is sweaty, but the food is delicious. 00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:24.239 Is Frank the owner or is he just a guy you know? 00:43:24.719 --> 00:43:25.280 I know Frank. 00:43:25.360 --> 00:43:26.639 All right, I don't know questions, okay? 00:43:26.800 --> 00:43:27.440 Just know him, right? 00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:29.199 You'll have to find out. 00:43:29.920 --> 00:43:33.599 You can tell by the the facial expression of the person you tell. 00:43:34.800 --> 00:43:36.480 But we're looking forward to having everybody. 00:43:36.559 --> 00:43:37.119 It's gonna be good. 00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:41.679 We have a lot of evaluators um signed up, and I hope they all attend. 00:43:42.639 --> 00:43:43.840 I'm not gonna vote for you. 00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:46.079 Um all right, well, let's talk about Gavel rankings. 00:43:46.159 --> 00:43:48.880 Uh, what's new this year with the uh ranking system? 00:43:49.199 --> 00:43:53.840 So for the first time, we invited everybody in the community who was interested to vote. 00:43:54.079 --> 00:44:06.880 Uh we asked everyone to if they were willing to vote, um, that the only caveat is That we would share at some point the tournaments that they voted to be the ones that they prefer. 00:44:06.960 --> 00:44:19.280 Uh, I I use that language, the ones that they prefer, because this year, rather than just say what's the tour toughest tournament to win, we offered three different options uh strength of field, quality of the tournament, and prestige. 00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:29.599 And based on those rankings of all of the tournaments held throughout the country, we compiled a list for which the formula we will not disclose because it wouldn't be Gavel rankings if we told you how we made it. 00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:30.159 Of course not. 00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:32.719 And uh and we're gonna unveil that soon. 00:44:32.960 --> 00:44:38.639 So did you notice anything different about the voting now that you've said some of the scores and names are gonna be public? 00:44:38.719 --> 00:44:43.199 I guess the name has always been public, but some of the scores or ranks associated with them will not be. 00:44:43.280 --> 00:44:46.000 So did you notice anything different about the way people voted? 00:44:46.079 --> 00:44:46.719 Or who voted? 00:44:46.960 --> 00:44:53.360 So we had 32 voters this year, um, which was obviously more than anyone that that we had previously. 00:44:53.440 --> 00:44:57.519 Uh we had invited uh, I think at one point 25 different voters. 00:44:57.679 --> 00:44:59.519 Uh 32 people voted. 00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:07.039 Um, some people who previously voted chose not to, whether they ignored my email, which happens often or for some other reason. 00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:07.599 I'm not sure. 00:45:07.840 --> 00:45:09.199 Did anybody try to vote twice? 00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:10.079 Yes. 00:45:10.639 --> 00:45:12.880 Uh do you want to tell us that person's name? 00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:14.800 That assumes that it was only one. 00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:15.519 Okay. 00:45:15.920 --> 00:45:17.599 Do you want to tell us their names? 00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:18.079 No. 00:45:18.239 --> 00:45:18.400 Okay. 00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:19.360 How about off-air? 00:45:19.679 --> 00:45:19.920 Yes. 00:45:20.079 --> 00:45:20.960 Okay, excellent. 00:45:21.199 --> 00:45:22.000 I just love it. 00:45:22.159 --> 00:45:23.119 This will be public. 00:45:23.519 --> 00:45:25.519 Uh I'll vote twice. 00:45:26.079 --> 00:45:26.239 Yeah. 00:45:26.559 --> 00:45:27.599 People are very forgetful. 00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:30.719 Were there were their votes the same both both times they voted? 00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:31.920 No, they weren't. 00:45:32.239 --> 00:45:32.800 Incredible. 00:45:32.960 --> 00:45:33.440 Incredible. 00:45:33.519 --> 00:45:34.800 Uh okay, it could be forgetfulness. 00:45:34.880 --> 00:45:36.159 I'll and I'll add this. 00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:38.320 You wouldn't be surprised either. 00:45:40.239 --> 00:45:41.119 Spencer. 00:45:42.639 --> 00:45:47.679 No, I the only reason I know I wouldn't have voted twice is I would have deleted the email after I had dealt with it. 00:45:47.760 --> 00:45:50.079 So I don't think I did it twice uh myself. 00:45:50.320 --> 00:45:51.199 Did Spencer vote once? 00:45:51.360 --> 00:45:51.599 I did. 00:45:52.239 --> 00:45:52.559 Oh, nice. 00:45:52.719 --> 00:45:53.760 Oh, I definitely did. 00:45:54.000 --> 00:45:54.960 Now I'm looking at the list. 00:45:55.119 --> 00:45:55.679 Yes, you did. 00:45:55.760 --> 00:45:56.880 Yeah, you did. 00:45:57.039 --> 00:45:58.000 You were the eighth voter. 00:45:58.239 --> 00:46:00.159 I was the eighth voter and the 12th and 16th. 00:46:02.639 --> 00:46:04.239 Top 10 voter, top 10 talkie. 00:46:04.400 --> 00:46:04.719 I like it. 00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:05.280 There we go. 00:46:05.519 --> 00:46:05.760 Wow. 00:46:05.920 --> 00:46:07.119 What about the deep cut? 00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:07.440

That's good. 00:46:07.599 --> 00:46:09.199 What about the content of their votes? 00:46:09.360 --> 00:46:10.559 Did you notice anything? 00:46:10.639 --> 00:46:13.920 Uh more shenanigans, fewer shenanigans, different shenanigans? 00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:15.039 Tell me about shenanigans. 00:46:15.199 --> 00:46:15.519 Yeah. 00:46:15.679 --> 00:46:18.239 Um, yeah, there's there's always shenanigans. 00:46:18.400 --> 00:46:28.079 I mean, you know, vote vote the the tournament that is strongest in field, and some people choose like the six tournaments they compete in. 00:46:28.159 --> 00:46:28.800 But you know, whatever. 00:46:28.880 --> 00:46:32.159 It's it's gonna be public, so you can analyze it for yourself. 00:46:32.400 --> 00:46:34.159 Um, maybe people forgot. 00:46:34.239 --> 00:46:34.719 I don't know. 00:46:34.800 --> 00:46:41.760 Um, but it's it there is some putting the jokes aside, there's some interesting data that I'm happy to share. 00:46:41.920 --> 00:46:47.519 Uh, that when you vote by both strength, quality, and prestige, you see some interesting things. 00:46:47.840 --> 00:46:48.159 All right. 00:46:48.239 --> 00:46:51.840 Well, I think we're gonna get to that, or we're gonna try to pry as much of that out of you as we can. 00:46:51.920 --> 00:46:54.239 Uh, but remind me, it's been a bit since I was the eighth voter. 00:46:54.320 --> 00:46:55.760 What what were the categories you had on there? 00:46:56.000 --> 00:46:58.880 Strength of field, tournament quality, prestige. 00:46:59.119 --> 00:46:59.760 Okay, got it. 00:46:59.920 --> 00:47:00.880 Three excellent categories. 00:47:01.039 --> 00:47:08.639 Now you're you're gonna release the full data soon, you said, but um wondering if we can get some teasers about which competitions the voters like the most? 00:47:08.880 --> 00:47:09.679 Great question, Spencer. 00:47:09.760 --> 00:47:10.159 Oh, thank you. 00:47:10.239 --> 00:47:13.440 Did I get I kind of executed fair, fair, you know, so so. 00:47:13.920 --> 00:47:17.599 So uh three tournaments were top ten in all. 00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:19.440 Ooh, wait, can we can we guess? 00:47:19.599 --> 00:47:19.840 Sure. 00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:20.559 All right, Spencer. 00:47:20.960 --> 00:47:21.920 This is a great idea. 00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:24.800 Oh, can we stick our foot in our mouth? 00:47:24.880 --> 00:47:25.920 Spencer, go ahead. 00:47:26.719 --> 00:47:28.159 I was gonna say, Spencer, you go first. 00:47:28.719 --> 00:47:29.199 No, you go. 00:47:29.679 --> 00:47:30.719 What do you think the three are? 00:47:30.960 --> 00:47:33.840 Why would I why would I do this? 00:47:34.159 --> 00:47:38.320 Um, well, uh Med Legal, uh, Tournament of Champions. 00:47:38.480 --> 00:47:38.719 Uh-huh. 00:47:39.039 --> 00:47:42.880 Um I'm not playing this game, sir. 00:47:42.960 --> 00:47:43.360 What do you got? 00:47:43.440 --> 00:47:44.960 You're the one who walks into this. 00:47:45.599 --> 00:47:46.320 Okay, all right. 00:47:46.559 --> 00:47:47.440 Med legal's in there. 00:47:47.519 --> 00:47:48.320 That's where it should be. 00:47:48.400 --> 00:47:48.800 I like it. 00:47:49.039 --> 00:47:53.920 After this, why don't you suggest uh to me what do you think are the three lowest? 00:47:54.400 --> 00:47:54.880 Exactly. 00:47:55.039 --> 00:47:56.000 Justin, go ahead. 00:47:56.400 --> 00:48:00.400 Flash the pint. 00:48:02.480 --> 00:48:04.320 Man, this guy prepped today, man. 00:48:04.559 --> 00:48:04.800 Jeez. 00:48:05.199 --> 00:48:05.840 Go on, Jared. 00:48:05.920 --> 00:48:07.760 I'm sorry you were rudely interrupted. 00:48:08.079 --> 00:48:13.599 Top 10 in all three, uh, Top Gun, Battle of the Experts, and Med Legal. 00:48:13.760 --> 00:48:14.159 Congrats. 00:48:14.239 --> 00:48:14.480 Nice. 00:48:14.719 --> 00:48:15.519 Wow, no doubt. 00:48:15.599 --> 00:48:16.000 Congrats. 00:48:16.079 --> 00:48:16.719 That's awesome. 00:48:17.119 --> 00:48:28.639 Um, one interesting caveat about both the 32 voters as well as the information that I have, the highest ranked tournament for quality of the tournament is the verdict. 00:48:28.719 --> 00:48:29.119 Oh, nice. 00:48:29.360 --> 00:48:31.599 Which hasn't which hasn't happened in years. 00:48:31.840 --> 00:48:32.079 Legend. 00:48:32.480 --> 00:48:34.400 So congrats to you, Justin. 00:48:34.880 --> 00:48:36.480 Absence makes the heart grow fonder. 00:48:37.199 --> 00:48:38.159 Will it return? 00:48:38.320 --> 00:48:39.440 Well, I think now we've got to. 00:48:39.519 --> 00:48:40.960 I mean, people have spoken, you know. 00:48:41.039 --> 00:48:42.880 I appreciate the outpouring of support. 00:48:42.960 --> 00:48:44.639 Um, below, that that's really sweet. 00:48:44.800 --> 00:48:45.840 So I guess we've got to bring it back. 00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:47.119 Yeah, it's the people's champion. 00:48:47.280 --> 00:48:47.519 Thank you. 00:48:47.679 --> 00:48:48.880 All right, we want more teasers. 00:48:48.960 --> 00:48:52.239 Usually you'll join us at the end of the semester and announce the top teams of the fall. 00:48:52.480 --> 00:48:55.519 But uh, can we get a little sense of that uh now? 00:48:55.679 --> 00:48:56.719 Anything that you can share? 00:48:56.960 --> 00:48:59.519 You want some some Gavel updates as of now? 00:48:59.840 --> 00:49:01.679 Yeah, if you got anything handy. 00:49:01.920 --> 00:49:02.239 Sure. 00:49:02.480 --> 00:49:06.960 Um Gavel rankings are up to date as of the moment. 00:49:07.199 --> 00:49:09.599 Uh interesting, interesting data. 00:49:09.760 --> 00:49:12.400 75 schools have competed once already. 00:49:12.639 --> 00:49:13.119 Well, it's good. 00:49:13.199 --> 00:49:13.760 It's good fault. 00:49:14.079 --> 00:49:20.880 Which is pretty good considering there's a majority of of the one plus events is AAJ or Tyler. 00:49:20.960 --> 00:49:24.400 So it'll be interesting to see if we get over that 190 number. 00:49:24.559 --> 00:49:29.440 Um, Chapman and Texas Southern, um, sleeper years so far. 00:49:29.599 --> 00:49:37.599 Um, Drexel and

UCLA, not so sleeper years, but they're at the top of our points as of uh October 13th. 00:49:37.840 --> 00:49:38.239 Nice. 00:49:38.480 --> 00:49:39.360 We got something out of it. 00:49:39.440 --> 00:49:39.840 It's great. 00:49:40.079 --> 00:49:48.639 I will say this about the voting because we didn't talk about this, and um I know you guys always warn me to speak less, but I I wanted to point this out because I think it's interesting for a discussion. 00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:56.559 Thailand Nationals, as it relates to the 32 voters, number one in strength, top in prestige, 36th in quality. 00:49:56.719 --> 00:49:58.320 Oh, how many? 00:49:58.480 --> 00:50:00.800 There's high 30s, 40s, 52. 00:50:01.280 --> 00:50:03.920 52 voters, 52 competitions were voted. 00:50:04.159 --> 00:50:05.760 52 competitions, or 53. 00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:07.039 53 were voted. 00:50:07.280 --> 00:50:09.119 AAJ, you want to guess? 00:50:09.280 --> 00:50:09.920 Ooh, okay. 00:50:10.079 --> 00:50:11.519 Uh Spencer. 00:50:12.559 --> 00:50:14.239 Actually, I'm not so worried about if anybody. 00:50:14.400 --> 00:50:15.440 All right, I'm gonna go on a limb. 00:50:15.519 --> 00:50:21.199 I'm gonna say they were higher in prestige and strength of field than they were in quality. 00:50:21.599 --> 00:50:28.480 Uh uh third, third in strength of field, third in prestige, 37th in tournament quality. 00:50:28.719 --> 00:50:29.519 Oh man. 00:50:29.920 --> 00:50:32.800 Maybe we should have a uh a panel at eats about this, you know. 00:50:32.960 --> 00:50:33.599 Yeah, yeah. 00:50:33.760 --> 00:50:35.599 All right, Jared, what do you make of that? 00:50:35.679 --> 00:50:41.519 What what what what do you make of the uh uh the difference in the scores for Tylen AJ? 00:50:41.599 --> 00:50:46.239 So high in in prestige and quality of field and lower in quality of competition. 00:50:46.480 --> 00:50:49.840 I think the 32 voters think the quality of that tournament is poor. 00:50:50.079 --> 00:50:50.880 Analysis. 00:50:51.039 --> 00:50:52.000 I like it. 00:50:52.480 --> 00:50:58.559 Um now, maybe the most important part of Gavel is when you get to needle Adam Schlahead about his TCPR. 00:50:58.639 --> 00:51:02.480 I was gonna say TCPR rankings, but that's like ATM machine, it's just TCPR. 00:51:02.639 --> 00:51:08.000 Uh, you previously purchased Adamshlahead.com and it redirects to your Gavel website. 00:51:08.079 --> 00:51:10.800 Uh, do you have any new humiliations for Adam? 00:51:11.519 --> 00:51:16.000 Yeah, so I want I'm gonna I'm gonna let the community know on a little secret. 00:51:16.239 --> 00:51:21.039 I have I have been on GoDaddy recently. 00:51:21.840 --> 00:51:22.719 Watch yourself. 00:51:23.039 --> 00:51:26.159 Uh I have not purchased these, so they are available. 00:51:26.480 --> 00:51:27.920 Oh, he's making a market right now. 00:51:28.079 --> 00:51:28.559 Okay, good. 00:51:28.639 --> 00:51:28.880 Yeah. 00:51:29.119 --> 00:51:32.559 Uh but I have looked at the following and

I haven't purchased them. 00:51:32.719 --> 00:51:33.679 Are you interested? 00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:35.840 Very cool idea. 00:51:36.079 --> 00:51:38.239 I own adamslaw.com. 00:51:39.519 --> 00:51:40.159 Available. 00:51:40.639 --> 00:51:45.039 Is it i own adamslawhead.com or iownslaatamslawhead.com.com. 00:51:45.199 --> 00:51:46.960 No, I own adamslot.com. 00:51:47.199 --> 00:51:48.639 Because the second one is true right now. 00:51:48.719 --> 00:51:51.920 You do own adamslawhead.com, then you could have the.com. 00:51:52.400 --> 00:51:56.079 I just I didn't look that one up, but I assume that one is also available. 00:51:56.400 --> 00:51:57.360 Okay, go on. 00:51:57.519 --> 00:52:02.000 Um, I also have considered purchasing fordomrankings.com. 00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:09.519 Uh third, uh tcprsucks.com, also available. 00:52:11.280 --> 00:52:19.280 And uh the fourth one, which uh I also pondered was gavelisbetter.com, also available. 00:52:20.320 --> 00:52:24.000 Now, I I want to add this about website name purchasing. 00:52:24.159 --> 00:52:35.440 I have contacted lawyers regarding the issues that I've discussed, and there is a reason why I haven't uh played the following video. 00:52:35.920 --> 00:52:36.559 Oh no. 00:52:36.960 --> 00:52:39.039 Um gotta check our insurance here. 00:52:39.119 --> 00:52:39.519 Let's see. 00:52:39.760 --> 00:52:40.639 Yeah, hold on. 00:52:40.800 --> 00:52:43.440 There's a reason why I haven't played the following video. 00:52:43.519 --> 00:52:51.679 Let me get it back up, because if I publish this uh on adamshlot.com, my lawyers are concerned. 00:52:51.920 --> 00:52:52.800 Oh, just do it here then. 00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:53.840 Oh, you gotta get the audio going. 00:52:54.159 --> 00:52:58.639 Yeah, you gotta do redo it by uh and choose share the audio too when you screen share. 00:52:58.800 --> 00:53:02.159 Um, I will say, whatever this is, it looks like an obvious parody to me. 00:53:02.320 --> 00:53:04.719 Yes, definitely legally protected parody. 00:53:04.880 --> 00:53:07.440 Oh I didn't I didn't I didn't think for a second that was Adam. 00:53:07.679 --> 00:53:08.239 It didn't work? 00:53:08.400 --> 00:53:10.880 No, we we saw the video, but we couldn't see the audio. 00:53:11.199 --> 00:53:14.000 You didn't share the audio, I don't think you couldn't hear the audio, right? 00:53:14.159 --> 00:53:14.320 Right. 00:53:14.480 --> 00:53:16.000 It's probably better with the audio, you know. 00:53:16.159 --> 00:53:16.559 Yeah, right. 00:53:16.880 --> 00:53:18.639 The audio that definitely isn't Adam. 00:53:18.880 --> 00:53:19.440 No, obviously. 00:53:19.840 --> 00:53:23.119 No reason no reasonable viewer or listener could think that that was Adam. 00:53:23.920 --> 00:53:24.079 Exactly. 00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:25.519 Check out Gavel Rankings. 00:53:25.679 --> 00:53:26.159 Oh, here you go. 00:53:26.320 --> 00:53:26.559 Hold on. 00:53:26.800 --> 00:53:27.760 We get we okay, here we go. 00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:30.480 And where

to find the real deal with the rankings that actually make sense. 00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:31.679 Check out Gavel Rankings. 00:53:31.760 --> 00:53:34.880 Go to Gavel Rankings for the best rankings, the best deal regulator. 00:53:35.519 --> 00:53:36.880 Where to find the real deal, yeah. 00:53:37.280 --> 00:53:44.400 That that slendered bearded man from New York looks nothing like Adam, but it's uh reminiscent, so therefore I get the joke. 00:53:44.639 --> 00:53:47.440 I can see it's obviously a joke, it's just a joke. 00:53:47.840 --> 00:53:48.239 Right. 00:53:48.320 --> 00:53:51.679 So I have thought about it's fabulous making that the fabulous. 00:53:51.920 --> 00:53:57.199 I I have thought about making that the landing page of Adamshlott.com, but my lawyers are concerned. 00:53:57.360 --> 00:53:57.519 Yeah. 00:53:57.920 --> 00:53:58.800 Here's another piece of advice. 00:53:59.199 --> 00:53:59.840 Who are your lawyers? 00:54:00.079 --> 00:54:01.039 I can't disclose that. 00:54:01.119 --> 00:54:01.360 Okay. 00:54:01.519 --> 00:54:09.280 But I will say this one thing I also learned, Spencer, you you need to go to GoDaddy because Spencerpalkey.com available. 00:54:09.440 --> 00:54:11.360 And I was almost the owner of it yesterday. 00:54:11.599 --> 00:54:11.760 Yeah. 00:54:11.920 --> 00:54:15.119 So I I think we can see uh your litigation strategy here. 00:54:15.199 --> 00:54:20.400 You're like picking on the uh former public defender, turned school teacher Adam Schlawhead. 00:54:20.639 --> 00:54:20.800 Okay. 00:54:20.960 --> 00:54:24.079 Picking on the guy who works at a plaintiff's law firm, unwise. 00:54:24.320 --> 00:54:24.559 Correct. 00:54:24.719 --> 00:54:24.880 Smart. 00:54:25.039 --> 00:54:28.159 Does that mean Justin Bernstein.com is owned by Justin Bernstein? 00:54:28.320 --> 00:54:29.360 I don't know who owns it, but it's okay. 00:54:29.599 --> 00:54:30.960 I'm flattered that you checked mine first. 00:54:31.039 --> 00:54:31.519 Okay, cool. 00:54:31.760 --> 00:54:33.840 Both both buy checked both. 00:54:34.159 --> 00:54:35.199 Oh, you did check both. 00:54:35.679 --> 00:54:41.280 I can buy Justin Bernstein from a website uh agent for at a minimum$100. 00:54:41.679 --> 00:54:46.000 Okay, well, speaking of purchasing, um, you know, we we noticed, Jared, and we want your take on this. 00:54:46.079 --> 00:54:54.639 Uh, we we noticed that the law school podcast ranking site that we'd been, you know, ranked number four on moved just to unranked because they decided to become pay-to-play and we're not gonna pay to play. 00:54:54.719 --> 00:54:58.800 So on that note, can schools pay you to move up in the Gavel rankings? 00:54:58.880 --> 00:54:59.519 Are you for sale? 00:54:59.599 --> 00:55:01.119 And if so, how much do you charge? 00:55:01.280 --> 00:55:04.400 Um did you ever watch wrestling as a kid? 00:55:04.559 --> 00:55:09.039 No, little Ted DiBiasa used to say everybody's got a price. 00:55:09.360 --> 00:55:14.400 Um, so my super pack would

collect the money, um, but Jared Rosenblatt. 00:55:14.639 --> 00:55:16.400 Jared Rosenblatt would not. 00:55:17.280 --> 00:55:17.920 Got it. 00:55:18.239 --> 00:55:21.039 I'm afraid that your super pack is gonna say something about Adam Schlott. 00:55:22.079 --> 00:55:26.239 My super pack is Adam Schlott is is my lawyer.com. 00:55:28.880 --> 00:55:29.920 Uh oh. 00:55:30.400 --> 00:55:30.719 All right. 00:55:30.880 --> 00:55:35.280 Well, where where are we ranked among law school podcasts um in Gabble? 00:55:35.599 --> 00:55:36.159 Number one. 00:55:36.480 --> 00:55:37.360 Number one, baby. 00:55:37.519 --> 00:55:37.920 Number one. 00:55:38.079 --> 00:55:39.119 Congratulations, Spencer. 00:55:39.199 --> 00:55:41.679 Yeah, and number two is scripteddirect.com. 00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:43.679 That never got off the ground. 00:55:44.159 --> 00:55:45.440 Those guys suck. 00:55:47.679 --> 00:55:51.039 Uh it's like a tribute band that that is is almost beating us. 00:55:51.119 --> 00:55:51.599 That's all right. 00:55:51.840 --> 00:55:54.239 Well, Jared, I'm looking forward to seeing you in New York next week. 00:55:54.400 --> 00:55:55.599 Looking forward to seeing both of you. 00:55:55.920 --> 00:55:56.880 Great talking, Jared. 00:55:56.960 --> 00:55:57.280 Thank you. 00:56:02.320 --> 00:56:04.719 Spencer, is it just me or is Jared Mellowing? 00:56:04.960 --> 00:56:06.239 You know, actually, it's what's interesting. 00:56:06.320 --> 00:56:11.519 I would say that, you know, if you look at the arc of Jared on the podcast, because that's how I view him on the podcast. 00:56:11.679 --> 00:56:11.760 Right. 00:56:11.920 --> 00:56:14.400 Um you view him where everyone else can hear him. 00:56:14.559 --> 00:56:15.440 Yeah, yeah, right. 00:56:15.760 --> 00:56:20.159 Um, I would say like he was like an eight or a nine, you know, for a couple of years there. 00:56:20.239 --> 00:56:23.360 And then he kind of he did kind of fall to like a a little bit. 00:56:23.599 --> 00:56:24.960 An eight or a nine out of what? 00:56:25.119 --> 00:56:25.599 Out of five? 00:56:25.920 --> 00:56:26.800 Out of ten, you know. 00:56:27.039 --> 00:56:27.280 Okay. 00:56:27.840 --> 00:56:29.679 And it did, he did drop off. 00:56:29.840 --> 00:56:37.199 I don't know if you know that's you know, uh the effects of time or growing family and that kind of stuff, to like a uh, you know, five or six. 00:56:37.280 --> 00:56:39.519 But I I feel like it kind of kicked it up a little bit here, actually. 00:56:39.599 --> 00:56:42.800 I think it was like a I'll give it a seven, which maybe a good place for him to be, you know. 00:56:43.039 --> 00:56:44.159 Uh he's doing great. 00:56:44.400 --> 00:56:45.679 He's still got his fastball. 00:56:45.840 --> 00:56:48.239 He he doesn't throw it as often, but he's still got the fastball. 00:56:48.400 --> 00:56:53.599 That's the beauty of being a seven, you know, you still got that nine if you had to, but you can also roll with the five, you know? 00:56:53.760 -->

00:56:54.000 Wow. 00:56:54.079 --> 00:56:54.800 Okay, that's the headline. 00:56:54.960 --> 00:56:56.800 Spencer says Jared's a seven. 00:56:57.039 --> 00:56:58.079 I wonder what he'd say about him. 00:56:58.320 --> 00:56:59.840 Actually, well, no, given where he lived. 00:57:00.159 --> 00:57:00.800 Give him where he lives. 00:57:00.880 --> 00:57:02.239 Can we call him a New York seven? 00:57:03.119 --> 00:57:05.840 He's he's a California four and a New York seven. 00:57:06.480 --> 00:57:09.840 Okay, back when he had character, he was at least a New York eight. 00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:12.880 Love you. 00:57:13.440 --> 00:57:17.519 Uh we turned to our mailbag, which has three mailbag questions this week. 00:57:17.760 --> 00:57:18.400 Oh my god. 00:57:18.719 --> 00:57:25.440 The first is about judging assignments, and it comes from anonymous listener, AJBDL from San Antonio. 00:57:25.760 --> 00:57:31.199 AJBDL writes, suppose you're hosting a tournament with two simultaneous final rounds. 00:57:31.360 --> 00:57:33.039 I think Tyler or AJ Regionals. 00:57:33.119 --> 00:57:33.920 You have eight judges. 00:57:34.079 --> 00:57:36.559 Do you assign three to one room and five to the other? 00:57:36.719 --> 00:57:40.079 Or do you divide them four and four and have one ballot not count each room? 00:57:40.239 --> 00:57:41.440 Spencer, what do you do? 00:57:41.599 --> 00:57:42.320 What do you do? 00:57:42.480 --> 00:57:44.639 Um, have we answered this question before? 00:57:44.719 --> 00:57:45.679 Uh, I feel like we have. 00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:47.039 I don't know what I said before. 00:57:47.199 --> 00:57:53.760 Um, I think how I'm feeling right now is if I can vote again, uh, is I think I'd probably go four and four. 00:57:53.920 --> 00:57:59.679 Um, just because I don't like the feeling of just a bare three people in in an out round. 00:57:59.920 --> 00:58:05.760 Um and it, you know, that way both teams are gonna have the same number of folks um, you know, scoring. 00:58:05.920 --> 00:58:09.119 I think that's what I would say, with uh, you know, removing the least experienced person. 00:58:09.199 --> 00:58:09.599 How about you? 00:58:09.760 --> 00:58:10.400 Yeah, I don't know. 00:58:10.480 --> 00:58:12.400 There's a clear right answer, but that's a wrong answer. 00:58:12.559 --> 00:58:17.760 Um you're just you're just deciding to throw out 25% of your ballots when you could throw out zero percent of your ballots. 00:58:17.920 --> 00:58:22.880 Um I think that online I might feel a little differently because you might lose connection, right? 00:58:23.039 --> 00:58:23.920 Somebody might might leave. 00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:25.679 But in person, that basically doesn't happen. 00:58:25.760 --> 00:58:28.079 And so I'd be comfortable saying three in one room, five in the other. 00:58:28.320 --> 00:58:30.320 It's not like we're hurting the room with three, right? 00:58:30.400 --> 00:58:31.679 They were gonna have three ballots anyway. 00:58:31.760 --> 00:58:36.480

And you can make sure it's the same three ballots, but we're using less of the data and using less of people's actual time. 00:58:36.559 --> 00:58:37.760 Um so I would go three and five. 00:58:37.840 --> 00:58:39.840 I I I tease when I said I think it's clear cut. 00:58:39.920 --> 00:58:46.559 I understand the argument for for four because that gives you insurance in case somebody has something happens or that you know uh there's some sort of conflict. 00:58:46.639 --> 00:58:47.760 Uh, but I go three and five. 00:58:47.840 --> 00:58:50.880 I just don't like the optics of you get three and you get five. 00:58:51.039 --> 00:58:55.840 Um, but uh I hope that I hope that the non-answer is helpful for AJ B D L. 00:58:56.159 --> 00:58:57.760 Yes, whoever he or she is. 00:58:58.000 --> 00:58:59.519 Yeah, or the whatever, you know, whatever we got. 00:58:59.760 --> 00:58:59.920 Yeah. 00:59:00.079 --> 00:59:03.679 I mean, AJ B D L, we we could just that's that's a long anonymous name. 00:59:03.760 --> 00:59:04.880 Let's just shorten it to AJ. 00:59:05.280 --> 00:59:05.760 Yeah, yeah. 00:59:05.840 --> 00:59:06.800 That's a that's way easier. 00:59:06.960 --> 00:59:07.199 Yeah. 00:59:07.360 --> 00:59:07.599 Okay. 00:59:08.239 --> 00:59:11.039 Our second mailbag question comes from anonymous listener LL. 00:59:11.280 --> 00:59:15.360 LL asks, how many of your mailbag questions come from actual listeners? 00:59:15.760 --> 00:59:17.599 That's a ridiculous question, all of them. 00:59:18.000 --> 00:59:18.719 Yeah, it's offensive. 00:59:18.800 --> 00:59:19.039 All of them. 00:59:19.440 --> 00:59:21.519 Yeah, LL must be a longtime listener or something. 00:59:21.840 --> 00:59:22.159 Exactly. 00:59:22.400 --> 00:59:22.719 Ridiculous. 00:59:23.199 --> 00:59:23.360 Yeah. 00:59:23.599 --> 00:59:26.639 Our final mailbag question comes from anonymous listener, Judge CW. 00:59:27.679 --> 00:59:28.239 It could be anybody. 00:59:28.320 --> 00:59:30.079 Uh Judge CW is in Houston. 00:59:30.400 --> 00:59:31.679 Um is it at Houston? 00:59:32.079 --> 00:59:32.400 Unclear. 00:59:32.880 --> 00:59:36.719 What tournament, Judge CW asks, serves the best food, Spencer. 00:59:37.599 --> 00:59:38.159 Think about this. 00:59:42.800 --> 00:59:43.039 Right. 00:59:43.280 --> 00:59:47.519 It's it's hard for you because you don't go to tournaments, and when you do, you don't care about the food. 00:59:49.440 --> 00:59:50.480 That's both arms, right? 00:59:53.840 --> 00:59:56.079 Other than that, you other than that, you're a qualified witness. 00:59:56.320 --> 00:59:57.840 Kind of bobbing for apples at that point. 00:59:57.920 --> 01:00:01.280 Um you have you neither have the facts nor data nor expertise. 01:00:01.519 --> 01:00:02.639 But I should I'm ready though. 01:00:02.880 --> 01:00:03.280 Go on. 01:00:05.199 --> 01:00:10.000 Um, I'm gonna just go with Top Gun uh because I always get barbecue down there. 01:00:10.159 --> 01:00:13.440 Um now, is that you know oftentimes it is served at the tournament. 01:00:13.519 --> 01:00:19.280 Um I might be, you know, I might have left by that point, but um I I often get barbecue with friends down there. 01:00:19.360 --> 01:00:20.400 So that's what I'm going with. 01:00:20.639 --> 01:00:22.400 Justin, what is your answer to the question? 01:00:22.639 --> 01:00:24.400 So I'm gonna give an obnoxious long answer. 01:00:24.480 --> 01:00:26.719 I think it's hard because we don't go to most tournaments, right? 01:00:26.800 --> 01:00:28.719 Most most people don't go to most tournaments. 01:00:28.800 --> 01:00:35.039 So of the ones I've been to, uh I'm I'm I can't count med legal or Jared's competition because I haven't yet had Borelli's. 01:00:35.119 --> 01:00:35.920 I'm super excited about it. 01:00:36.079 --> 01:00:36.800 Hey, do you know Frank? 01:00:37.280 --> 01:00:38.400 Uh I'm about to, yeah. 01:00:38.559 --> 01:00:38.960 Yeah, okay. 01:00:39.039 --> 01:00:43.039 Well, I hope you don't you might not want to know him, know him, but like you know him, you know what I mean? 01:00:43.199 --> 01:00:45.119 Yeah, uh yeah, we'll get to know each other. 01:00:45.280 --> 01:00:46.800 Uh over some chicken parm. 01:00:47.039 --> 01:00:55.679 I think the best meal consistently at tournaments, and I I realize this is self-serving, but I think the coach's dinner at Amicus at Stakeout is pretty, pretty tough to beat. 01:00:55.840 --> 01:00:56.400 Strong, strong. 01:00:56.639 --> 01:00:58.239 Pretty tough to beat, but that's individual meal. 01:00:58.400 --> 01:01:02.880 So of like full tournaments, uh, I'm gonna name four tournaments I think consistently have great food. 01:01:03.199 --> 01:01:05.039 Did you think about this at all ahead of the time by chance? 01:01:06.239 --> 01:01:07.039 It's all I thought about. 01:01:07.280 --> 01:01:07.920 Okay, okay, okay. 01:01:08.079 --> 01:01:08.960 It's all I thought about. 01:01:09.679 --> 01:01:10.800 I'm just curious, only curious. 01:01:10.880 --> 01:01:13.119 Yeah, uh NCTC, great food. 01:01:13.280 --> 01:01:17.679 Uh, they have a nice opening banquet with some charcuterie, uh, solid box lunches. 01:01:17.760 --> 01:01:23.519 Uh, if you go to the judge's room after the round starts, they always have leftover snacks, and the judges' food is great. 01:01:23.599 --> 01:01:28.239 They get good donuts or bagels or coffee, and then they've got really good sandwiches for lunch. 01:01:28.400 --> 01:01:30.079 I'm told by people who snuck in there. 01:01:30.239 --> 01:01:32.159 I mean, uh, they have a nice banquet. 01:01:32.320 --> 01:01:35.360 But I'll tell you my sneaky favorite at NCTC. 01:01:35.519 --> 01:01:41.119 Um, after the break from the semis to the finals, uh they serve Mendocino Farms and they have way more food than they need. 01:01:41.280 --> 01:01:43.119 They're always like, Oh, this is only for the finalists. 01:01:43.280 --> 01:01:47.519 They could serve every tournament's finalist from across the country, and and they'd still have leftovers.

01:01:47.760 --> 01:01:50.239 And they always get the couscous and just a vat of it. 01:01:50.320 --> 01:01:51.679 And I have so much of it. 01:01:51.840 --> 01:01:52.880 I just keep sneaking back. 01:01:53.039 --> 01:01:58.480 And the sandwiches, I mean it when we get we get eliminated in the semis, my kids think, oh, he's crying because we lost. 01:01:58.559 --> 01:01:59.840 No, I'm crying because I don't get the food. 01:02:00.559 --> 01:02:02.400 Uh I'm not disappointed in you. 01:02:02.480 --> 01:02:03.119 I'm just hungry. 01:02:03.440 --> 01:02:04.239 Hungry, exactly. 01:02:04.480 --> 01:02:06.639 Uh Top Gun, great food. 01:02:06.800 --> 01:02:10.559 Uh, they they they feed you at every opportunity, so you got a nice welcome dinner. 01:02:10.639 --> 01:02:13.360 Uh, they've got open bar and pizza at the end. 01:02:13.519 --> 01:02:15.039 They got a barbecue on Friday night. 01:02:15.199 --> 01:02:16.079 Always enjoy the barbecue. 01:02:16.159 --> 01:02:17.679 I think the sausage is really good. 01:02:17.760 --> 01:02:21.119 And and I have, you know, I always say I'm not gonna have the pie, but then I have two. 01:02:21.519 --> 01:02:22.960 Um that's delicious. 01:02:23.199 --> 01:02:25.119 And they're just always feeding me through at the tournament. 01:02:25.199 --> 01:02:27.119 I think their best food is probably their breakfasts. 01:02:27.280 --> 01:02:30.480 They have really nice uh warm breakfasts um during the tournament. 01:02:30.559 --> 01:02:32.960 Uh that's I'm a big fan, and flash. 01:02:33.199 --> 01:02:33.519 Uh-huh. 01:02:33.679 --> 01:02:37.920 Uh, you guys have the opening banquet at the restaurant, another closing banquet at a restaurant. 01:02:38.000 --> 01:02:38.960 Those are both yummy. 01:02:39.039 --> 01:02:43.519 Uh, you hold it at Jams where you bring in catered lunches, they're really good. 01:02:43.679 --> 01:02:51.119 And the the sneaky best part is Jams has all the snacks, the high-end snacks for the lawyers who are paying the same prices to be at Jams. 01:02:51.440 --> 01:02:57.760 And it's like free snacks, free kombucha, beer, sparkling water, like all that stuff in the lobby, and it's unlimited. 01:02:57.920 --> 01:02:58.320 Oh, yeah. 01:02:58.480 --> 01:03:00.159 Yeah, apply, apply in the spring, folks. 01:03:00.480 --> 01:03:00.880 That's right. 01:03:01.679 --> 01:03:04.960 You can apply right after you listen to you can actually apply anytime if you want to. 01:03:05.119 --> 01:03:06.480 I was trying to plug cause of action. 01:03:06.800 --> 01:03:07.679 Maybe try it again. 01:03:07.840 --> 01:03:08.159 Yeah. 01:03:08.480 --> 01:03:11.199 Spencer, don't interrupt me when I'm trying to plug cause of action. 01:03:11.440 --> 01:03:12.159 Nailed it. 01:03:12.320 --> 01:03:12.719 Yeah. 01:03:12.880 --> 01:03:16.639 So all those uh tournaments have great food, but prove me wrong, folks. 01:03:16.800 --> 01:03:18.239 Give us even better food at your competition. 01:03:18.559 --> 01:03:18.960 Oh, yeah. 01:03:19.760 --> 01:03:21.280 A challenge to the to the audience. 01:03:21.360 --> 01:03:22.000 That's a great idea. 01:03:22.159 --> 01:03:25.840 What what is the likelihood I'm gonna get a call from Phil being like, how could you not name battle? 01:03:26.000 --> 01:03:26.800 Very high, very high. 01:03:27.679 --> 01:03:28.239 Yeah, yeah. 01:03:28.480 --> 01:03:29.840 Maybe lower now that you said that. 01:03:29.920 --> 01:03:30.400 Yeah. 01:03:30.639 --> 01:03:31.599 Uh all right. 01:03:31.840 --> 01:03:33.280 Um, I have nothing else to say. 01:03:33.519 --> 01:03:33.760 Do you? 01:03:33.920 --> 01:03:37.280 Uh good luck to everybody competing this week, including at Gold Cup in Sacramento. 01:03:37.519 --> 01:03:38.320 Good luck, folks. 01:03:39.840 --> 01:03:42.639 Unscripted Direct is a production of Justin and Spencer. 01:03:42.800 --> 01:03:44.800 We're mixed and edited by these damn chaps. 01:03:44.960 --> 01:03:51.760 If you're not on the list server but want to get our blast email for each episode, sign up at www.unscripteddirect.com. 01:03:52.239 --> 01:03:56.559 Follow us on social media as follow us Instagram or at unscripted direct. 01:03:56.800 --> 01:03:59.920 Facebook is Facebook.com slash unscripted direct. 01:04:00.000 --> 01:04:12.800 And Twitter is at unscripted at the end of the day.