บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ “Inside Notes”

00:04:47.600 So I'm always gonna be a musician. 00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:49.759 Your dad played in the church too? 00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:50.800 He did, he did. 00:04:50.879 --> 00:04:53.439 He played, he played the keyboard and I played the drums. 00:04:53.759 --> 00:04:53.920 Okay. 00:04:54.079 --> 00:05:10.560 And so, you know, we played together for a long time, and then um he uh he developed I don't want to make this a sad episode, but he developed cancer, and then to the point to where he finally couldn't play anymore, and then our pastor said, Hey Rob, why don't you start playing the keyboard? 00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:11.120 Yeah. 00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:14.959 And I was like, No, I don't, you know, no, I don't want to play the keyboard. 00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:16.639 I was 25 years old, right? 00:05:16.720 --> 00:05:18.079 So I wasn't a kid, right? 00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:18.319 Yeah. 00:05:18.480 --> 00:05:25.040 So I anyway, it worked out that I started playing the keyboard at 25 and and it worked out. 00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:30.160 Did you already know how to play the keyboard or did you have to learn at that age? 00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:33.920 You know, I I didn't really I didn't really know how to play. 00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:37.360 We know we always had a piano in the house, of course, because my my dad played. 00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:42.399 And every once in a while as a kid, you know, I would go to the piano and just kind of pick out stuff. 00:05:42.560 --> 00:05:44.879 So everybody kind of knew I had the ear for it. 00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:50.319 I just, you know, I didn't have the interest for it, or I thought I didn't have the interest for it. 00:05:50.399 --> 00:05:54.639 But it can't it kind of showed later that I had always been interested in it, right? 00:05:54.720 --> 00:05:58.240 So and I was playing drums and I played baritone, like you said, in the March and Band. 00:05:58.399 --> 00:06:01.920 So music was always there, but keyboard was not. 00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:10.399 I think in fact, I think because my dad made it look so easy that I thought maybe I can't I can't do what he does, right? 00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:16.079 So, you know, because of that, I think that's what kind of held me back for a while from wanting to try it. 00:06:16.399 --> 00:06:18.560 But it was it was always there. 00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:24.000 So that's kind of a message for my son that's sitting right there. 00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:26.160 How old are you right now? 00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:27.360 25. 00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:28.240 Wow. 00:06:29.519 --> 00:06:30.079 Wow. 00:06:30.399 --> 00:06:31.600 So you never know. 00:06:31.759 --> 00:06:32.240 Yeah. 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:34.000 Passing the torch already. 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:34.480 Right. 00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:38.240 So I have to know why why why is it they call you the professor? 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:40.720 I even heard Reg call you the professor. 00:06:40.879 --> 00:06:42.720 Why, why are we calling

you the professor? 00:06:42.959 --> 00:06:45.360 That's that's just Reggie being Reggie, right? 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:46.399 I don't know. 00:06:47.439 --> 00:06:55.279 Because when I when I met him, you know, I would I would always um he always thought that I was extra uh particular. 00:06:55.439 --> 00:06:59.439 Like I always I wanted certain sounds in the keyboard, so I had to go and dig. 00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:02.399 I could just turn on the keyboard and just use whatever was there. 00:07:02.720 --> 00:07:06.480 Always had to go in and dial in my sounds and have everything perfect. 00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:11.120 So he kind of, you know, kind of coined that little nickname, the professor. 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:12.639 That's funny. 00:07:12.800 --> 00:07:12.959 Yeah. 00:07:13.439 --> 00:07:14.399 Reggie's fun. 00:07:15.279 --> 00:07:16.480 He's unique. 00:07:16.639 --> 00:07:17.279 Yeah. 00:07:20.720 --> 00:07:24.959 You grew up in uh Carson, California with music already part of your family. 00:07:25.199 --> 00:07:30.000 What was it about music that grabbed you and made you want to pursue it professionally? 00:07:31.279 --> 00:07:37.040 Well, my start is actually in middle school when I was in the marching bands. 00:07:37.199 --> 00:07:39.439 That's where the bearitone thing came from. 00:07:39.759 --> 00:07:43.759 So, um, but of course, you know, I'm 12, 13 years old. 00:07:43.839 --> 00:07:46.160 I was never thinking about music full time. 00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:49.360 Now I'm just, you know, a kid in school doing, you know, what I'm told to do. 00:07:49.600 --> 00:07:51.839 Play the songs in the marching band, that was it. 00:07:52.079 --> 00:07:55.839 So the the professional part didn't come until way later. 00:07:56.000 --> 00:08:06.560 After even starting the keyboard at 25, I'm nearing like 30 years old before I actually thought, okay, you know, maybe I can, you know, pursue this. 00:08:07.040 --> 00:08:16.319 Because my parents, although my dad was a musician, my parents were of the um, you know, music is not a full-time job. 00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:18.000 They were from that generation, right? 00:08:18.399 --> 00:08:19.360 That's what they were teaching me. 00:08:19.439 --> 00:08:21.439 I was like, you can't really make a living doing that. 00:08:21.680 --> 00:08:25.920 So I didn't think it was possible until you know things started to work. 00:08:26.079 --> 00:08:27.600 I started, you know, playing in these churches. 00:08:27.680 --> 00:08:33.840 People wanted me to play, and then I learned how to make music on the computer, which changed everything for me. 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:35.679 And that's when I realized, yeah, you know what? 00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:36.559 This might work. 00:08:36.720 --> 00:08:37.440 This can work. 00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:39.519 So I gave it a shot. 00:08:39.759 --> 00:08:44.320 So um, before you got into music, uh, assume you had another job to make money. 00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:45.440 So what were you doing? 00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:50.639 My last job, I was detailing cars. 00:08:51.120 --> 00:08:52.000 Oh, I heard this. 00:08:53.120 --> 00:08:56.320 Yeah, that was one of one of my one of my videos on on Instagram. 00:08:56.480 --> 00:09:00.960 Yeah, I worked at a um a Saturn auto dealership. 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:04.799 Actually, my my cousin was the owner of the dealership, right? 00:09:04.879 --> 00:09:06.399 So I'm just detailing cars. 00:09:06.559 --> 00:09:11.679 It's not a career, you know, I'm just doing it just because you know I had to do something, right? 00:09:11.759 --> 00:09:12.399 To make money. 00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:14.720 But music was always in the back of my mind. 00:09:14.799 --> 00:09:17.759 I'm like, how can I turn this into a music career? 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:21.679 And then when he finally fired me, I had no choice. 00:09:21.919 --> 00:09:23.519 You got fired for going to a show, right? 00:09:23.679 --> 00:09:25.039 I got fired by my own cousin. 00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:27.200 Yeah, but you had a gig. 00:09:27.360 --> 00:09:34.320 Well, yeah, I had a gig in it was a gig, I was playing with this choir, and um the choir had a gig in Vegas, right? 00:09:34.399 --> 00:09:37.759 So, and we were in, this is in California, we were in Ontario, California. 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:43.519 Gig was in Vegas, but it was on um Labor Day weekend, right? 00:09:43.919 --> 00:09:51.440 And it is auto dealership to be gone on a holiday weekend is a no-no, because that's their big weekends where they sell a lot of cars or whatever, right? 00:09:51.679 --> 00:09:53.600 So I had to I had a dilemma. 00:09:53.679 --> 00:09:58.720 Well, I'm either gonna, you know, but I'm thinking you know, at the same time, you're like, hey, my cousin owns this place, right? 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:03.600 So I'm just gonna go ahead and I'll see you guys on Monday, right? 00:10:03.759 --> 00:10:04.879 So I went. 00:10:04.960 --> 00:10:13.279 I did the show, came back, and they were like, he wasn't even there when I got back, but they said, hey, yeah, um uh your cousin told us to fire you. 00:10:13.919 --> 00:10:14.240 Me? 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:16.159 Told him to fire me, right? 00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:17.519 And it was true. 00:10:17.600 --> 00:10:20.399 They I was fired, and that was it. 00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:25.919 But there was a guy who was there, he was one of the mechanics, and uh, you may you may know the story. 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:28.879 He was one of the mechanics, and he like he barely spoke English, right? 00:10:29.039 --> 00:10:29.759 We never talked. 00:10:29.919 --> 00:10:31.919 I never had never talked to this guy, right? 00:10:32.080 --> 00:10:37.759 But he came to me, he said, Hey Rob, I don't want to do the accent, I don't want to be disrespectful, but he had this thick accent. 00:10:37.840 --> 00:10:41.360 Yeah, and he said, you know what, you because everybody knew that I wanted to be a musician. 00:10:41.679 --> 00:10:43.360 He said, he

said, hold your hands out. 00:10:43.519 --> 00:10:50.720 And I put my hands out and he said, You're a musician, and you're supposed you're supposed to be using your hands, not detailing these cards. 00:10:50.799 --> 00:10:52.480 This is what you're supposed to be doing, right? 00:10:52.639 --> 00:10:52.879 Wow. 00:10:53.120 --> 00:10:55.440 I was like, wow, Jose, you know what I mean? 00:10:55.600 --> 00:10:57.600 And he he like he said that it was deep. 00:10:57.759 --> 00:10:59.519 It was really deep, right? 00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:03.120 Yeah, so I kind of took that and and ran with it. 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:04.879 So it worked out. 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:08.720 It was it was a couple rough years after that point, but it worked out. 00:11:08.960 --> 00:11:09.840 That's awesome. 00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:14.399 Yeah, so you started playing the drums and uh you were playing the horns. 00:11:14.559 --> 00:11:17.039 What what drew you to the keyboard and the and the organ? 00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:19.120 How'd you make that transition? 00:11:19.679 --> 00:11:21.279 It was because of my dad, you know. 00:11:21.440 --> 00:11:25.840 Um it was because of the pastor basically started requesting you. 00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:31.440 Yeah, well, because this was uh this is you know it was a real small, like family type church, right? 00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:35.360 And so it was it was either me or nothing. 00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:36.799 Like, what else were we gonna do, right? 00:11:36.879 --> 00:11:42.879 So he said, Yeah, I want you to just just start playing and you can take over the choir and you know, just you know, run the whole thing. 00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:44.399 And I I just started learning. 00:11:44.559 --> 00:11:46.480 I started learning, I was teaching the choir parts. 00:11:46.559 --> 00:11:49.279 I taught myself to teach the you know the choir parts. 00:11:49.360 --> 00:11:51.440 I just you know, I just learned it all on the spot. 00:11:51.519 --> 00:11:53.519 And wow, yeah, and it worked out. 00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:57.679 I just it just worked out, and it fit it felt right from the beginning, though. 00:11:57.759 --> 00:12:02.320 It felt like I had been doing it forever because I had seen my dad do it forever. 00:12:02.480 --> 00:12:08.320 So that's a big responsibility, just kind of be thrown into it, not really knowing what you're doing. 00:12:08.879 --> 00:12:16.639 With that, okay, so yes, so we we were talking earlier about different different styles of churches, right? 00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:24.799 Yeah, so there's there's some churches where that's kind of the norm, is to be put on the spot to do stuff, right? 00:12:24.960 --> 00:12:30.559 This was one of those churches where it was not out of the ordinary to be thrown in the fire like that. 00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:31.919 And so it happened. 00:12:32.320 --> 00:12:34.559 You have to improvise every Sunday because you don't know. 00:12:34.720 --> 00:12:39.200 There's no playlist, there's no rehearsal, nobody comes with some set tracks. 00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:40.000 None. 00:12:40.240 --> 00:12:40.720 None. 00:12:40.879 --> 00:12:42.720 And I'm back there right now every Sunday. 00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:45.840 I don't know what I'm doing when I get there most of the time. 00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:47.440 And yeah, you just have to. 00:12:47.679 --> 00:12:48.960 You're back there like now? 00:12:49.200 --> 00:12:50.399 Like to not that church. 00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:50.720 Oh, okay. 00:12:51.039 --> 00:12:57.200 But that that type of church to where we may have a couple of songs, we may have a sort of a set list, right? 00:12:57.279 --> 00:13:14.879 We and we'll do the songs, but every Sunday after those songs are done, it's like, okay, now it's time for is this is now um, we're just gonna, you know, it's like like I don't wanna say prophetic, but um there's just no, there's no plan to what happens after those two songs, right? 00:13:15.039 --> 00:13:24.080 And what it turns into is it what if it feels like to me, let's see how many songs we can sing on the spot, let's see how many songs Rob can survive with. 00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:30.159 Back to back, and it's just back to back, song after song, and I have to just survive, right? 00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:32.639 Because that's the way I started years ago, right? 00:13:32.720 --> 00:13:34.320 So I'm kind of comfortable. 00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:37.279 You feel like the human shazam now? 00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:42.399 Like you you you hear him singing for three seconds, you gotta go start playing that song. 00:13:43.039 --> 00:13:44.240 Totally, yeah. 00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:46.000 Wow, yeah. 00:13:47.279 --> 00:13:51.200 Um, you become a well-known church musician here in the Phoenix area. 00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:55.759 What has playing in churches taught you about music, people, and performing? 00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:06.879 Well, what it taught me about people being here in Phoenix is Phoenix is is quite different from LA. 00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:14.639 The types of churches that I've been here or I've been with in Phoenix versus the type of churches I was with in LA, it's a big difference. 00:14:14.960 --> 00:14:35.600 So I don't know, it just you know, it kind of taught me that um there are a lot of different styles of of church services, and um it kind of because of my background being so widespread musically, I'm kind of able to make it in the different genres of music, right? 00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:42.159 So uh it just kind of taught me that everybody's different, but at the end of the day, it's the same. 00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:45.120 You know, it's like it's like we all have the same goal. 00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:52.080 We're all trying to get to the same goal in in the service, but the journey to get there is different. 00:14:52.399 --> 00:14:57.759 It's like we're all ice cream but different flavors, like just rocky roads sometimes. 00:14:58.000 --> 00:14:59.120 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:10.399 So being here in Phineas, I've gone all the way from the totally um uh service with no plan at all to a church like the church we talked about earlier. 00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:12.399 I don't want to say the name, but we worked at together. 00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:14.799 Everything is everything is planned out. 00:15:14.960 --> 00:15:17.600 Everything is is like you have a whole script for everything. 00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:19.440 You know what to expect, yeah. 00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:20.399 That was new to me. 00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:20.720 Yeah. 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:29.360 That was new to me, but the people from the background I'm used to, they kind of look down on it, you know, to say, well, well, that, you know, everything is planned for you. 00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:31.279 So it's it's just super easy. 00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:44.320 I'm like, yeah, well, it it is easy musically, but I I it taught me to respect the organization because there's a lot of planning that went on for that stuff, and that's the the part that other people don't know. 00:15:44.399 --> 00:15:54.159 There's a lot of planning that goes on behind the scenes, and like I yeah, I gained a lot of respect for that that kind of um service and some of the people I worked with too. 00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:56.000 I because I saw them work behind the scenes. 00:15:56.080 --> 00:15:57.519 Yeah, it's a lot, definitely. 00:15:57.759 --> 00:16:00.480 Yeah, so I I could I I like it, I could take it both ways. 00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:07.039 I like it both ways, but I like either um the planned way or the spontaneous way. 00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:07.919 There you go. 00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:09.360 That was the word I was looking for. 00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:10.799 Yeah, yeah. 00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:12.559 Like I said, I came from a church. 00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:14.639 I grew up in a church that was very spontaneous. 00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:23.279 You never there was not a set list, there wasn't a rehearsal, people would get up and you know it'd be almost like open mic, and you don't know what what's getting ready to happen. 00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:25.360 And yeah, yeah, you really gotta be on your feet. 00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:26.320 Yeah, yeah. 00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:28.399 Interesting, it's very interesting. 00:16:28.639 --> 00:16:36.159 Uh, for people like me who know absolutely nothing about music licensing, which I don't, let's talk about the term sync licensing. 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:38.000 What exactly is that? 00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:44.799 Sync licensing is is is actually it's a newer term, it's kind of popular now. 00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:47.679 But when I got into it, there was no name for it. 00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:53.759 It was just, you know, you make music and the the television shows buy the music and they use it. 00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:55.120 Now it's a real popular term. 00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:56.960 It's almost like a fad, right? 00:16:57.120 --> 00:17:05.279 So what it is is you know you make make music or you write your music, and then it gets licensed to uh different TV shows. 00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:13.440 And for a period of time, whatever the contract says, that show or that network owns the music for a period of time. 00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:21.039 So um, if I have some music that's accepted today, for example, they will own that music for the next five years. 00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:26.960 So there's there's music that I've created myself that I can't even use on my own Instagram stuff. 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:30.720 Wow, I've gotten warnings saying, well, this is owned by Warner Brothers. 00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:32.799 I'm thinking, yeah, well, I did it in my house stuff, right? 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:34.319 And I can't use it. 00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:35.359 That's crazy. 00:17:35.599 --> 00:17:39.200 And then does it eventually come back to you as for ownership or no? 00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:41.039 That's that's a that's a great question. 00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:54.559 Because I just had a new contract with another uh music library last week, in fact, and that was one of the questions was whether or not the music comes back after that five-year period. 00:17:54.880 --> 00:18:00.880 So in my first um situation, which is with uh Warner Brothers, it's been 21 years now, right? 00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:02.160 So it's been a long time. 00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:06.799 But the music that I write for them is kind of specific to those shows. 00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:10.799 So I don't I don't think about like if it comes back to me, what am I gonna do with it? 00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:13.359 Yeah, you can't use it again anywhere. 00:18:13.599 --> 00:18:14.160 Yeah, yeah. 00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:15.759 So I I don't really think about it. 00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:21.039 So the the legal answer is yes, it does come back to me after five years. 00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:29.599 But I've heard them use stuff after 15 years, and I still hear the same music because it's licensed to that show forever, basically, right? 00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:39.599 So if there's a sh if I'm lucky enough to have a show that uses reruns, which is not often, but if there's reruns and they use the reruns and play the reruns, that music is still attached to it. 00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:40.240 Wow. 00:18:40.400 --> 00:18:42.160 But you only got paid once for it. 00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:43.920 No, you get paid every time it's used. 00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:45.519 Oh, you do every time it's played. 00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:47.119 Oh, that's oh, that's great. 00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:48.079 Every time it's played. 00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:50.559 So you have residuals or whatever they call it. 00:18:50.799 --> 00:18:59.920 Every anytime it hits the airway, it could it can even be just a commercial saying, tomorrow on extra, we're gonna have this guest, that guest, and there's music playing in the background. 00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:01.359 That counts too.

00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:01.680 Yeah. 00:19:01.839 --> 00:19:04.640 The actual show counts, the promo stuff counts, everything counts. 00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:05.200 Oh, wow. 00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:08.480 That'd be nice to have all those checks rolling in now and then, isn't it? 00:19:09.599 --> 00:19:10.799 He's like, it is. 00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:12.000 What are you talking about? 00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:12.880 That's my living. 00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:14.160 Yeah, yeah. 00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:15.839 So I got a question. 00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:17.279 Can you control it then? 00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:23.759 Like, um, so say, I know there's you know, political people that people may like or not like. 00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:29.599 It say, you know, somebody who you don't like starts using your music, you don't have zero control over that. 00:19:31.039 --> 00:19:31.839 No, I don't. 00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:35.279 In fact, uh As long as they pay you, you don't have control over that. 00:19:35.920 --> 00:19:42.720 I have some stuff right now because every every piece of music that I that I have is is listed on the ASCAP website, right? 00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:43.920 That's some cases, right? 00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:46.640 So I can see everywhere my music is is used. 00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:51.440 So recently in the last year, I've had some stuff on Fox News, right? 00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:51.759 Okay. 00:19:51.920 --> 00:19:54.720 And I'm not saying that that's I mean, because you still somebody I don't like. 00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:56.960 I'm not saying whether or not I like Fox News or not. 00:19:57.119 --> 00:19:57.599 I'm just saying. 00:19:58.000 --> 00:20:00.720 Yeah, I'm just saying that that rubs certain people the wrong way sometimes. 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:02.319 So you could, yeah, great conversation. 00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:05.599 So no, so but it no, I don't I have no control over. 00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:17.920 Because what I do is I write the music and you know, I put my stuff together and I send it to the production company, and they decide which show that they have that fits the music that I've that I've um sent in, right? 00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:24.400 So apparently some of the stuff fits the um Fox News uh promo stuff, their commercials, right? 00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:25.359 So they use it. 00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:28.559 I don't care who it is, just as long as you get paid, yeah. 00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:29.119 Right. 00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:31.680 That's I remember Easy E saying that back in the day. 00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:37.200 Like he uh there was you know a thing about people buying his music and then not liking him and whatever. 00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:40.480 And he was like, hey, you know, my they already bought my CD. 00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:42.400 Like, I mean, what's it matter? 00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:45.039 Like, yeah, no, so I I remember that. 00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:48.880 Um you've been involved in sync licensing for more than 20 years. 00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:50.720 How did you originally get into that? 00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:54.079 Like, who I know the story, but share the story. 00:20:54.160 --> 00:20:55.279 Like, how did this evolve? 00:20:55.359 --> 00:20:57.680 I uh can you Do you know you know the story? 00:20:57.839 --> 00:20:59.119 Yeah, it happened at church service. 00:20:59.279 --> 00:21:00.640 You just gave somebody a ride. 00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:03.279 It all happened with a thumb. 00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:07.519 Yeah, I was yeah, I was at um, I was um helping a church. 00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:09.039 I didn't actually play for the church. 00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:10.240 This is still in LA. 00:21:10.319 --> 00:21:11.839 I was it's a church in Santa Monica. 00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:18.000 I didn't actually play for the church, but I was hired to help their band and you know rehearse their band. 00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:20.880 I was kind of the MD, but I was never there on Sundays, right? 00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:29.119 So we were at a rehearsal one night, and one of the guys uh in the choir, you know, I'm not in fact I didn't I didn't know anybody's story. 00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:32.480 I was just there doing what I was supposed to do when I would leave, right? 00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:41.359 So one of the guys in the choir, he said, um, hey Rob, I need you to, I want you to stay after rehearsal and help me with my you know singing my parts or whatever, right? 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:41.759 Yeah. 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:44.799 So we stayed after, and I went over the music with him. 00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:53.839 And then he said, you know, he's just kind of blurted out, all right, you know, I gotta go because I have to be with the clock in early tomorrow at four o'clock in the morning or something, right? 00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:55.599 So I said, Wow, you know, four o'clock. 00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:56.720 Like What you doing? 00:21:57.279 --> 00:21:57.839 What are you doing? 00:21:57.920 --> 00:21:59.279 You know, we have to be at work that early. 00:21:59.359 --> 00:22:06.559 And he said, I Work for um I work uh for a company called Telepictures and we're doing a show called Extra, right? 00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:07.759 I said, Extra? 00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:09.359 You know, yeah, extra, yeah, right. 00:22:09.519 --> 00:22:10.640 I said, Oh, that's cool. 00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:20.240 He said, in fact, we we have a new show coming out, and if you have some music, because we need some urban music, if you have some some music, let's hear some of your stuff. 00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:21.680 I might be able to get you in. 00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:22.480 Sweet. 00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:24.000 Yeah, I said, All right. 00:22:24.079 --> 00:22:28.240 So did you already have stuff ready, or did you go home and like rethink some things and recreate? 00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:29.519 I I had a few things. 00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:31.839 In fact, I told him, I said, well, you know, I have some music. 00:22:31.920

--> 00:22:35.359 I don't know if it's right for TV, but you know, I have some stuff. 00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:36.720 Uh, I'll let you hear some. 00:22:36.880 --> 00:22:38.720 So I put some on CD. 00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:39.920 This is 2005, right? 00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:41.759 So I put some stuff on CD. 00:22:42.079 --> 00:22:44.559 I wrote the sharp vibes, tracks, or whatever. 00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:46.319 And he told me when to be there. 00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:49.279 So I went to this studio and I let him hear the stuff. 00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:51.359 And he he put it in the CD player. 00:22:51.519 --> 00:22:55.039 He said, Oh, okay, yeah, we need to take this upstairs to the man. 00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:56.400 We need to let the man hear this. 00:22:56.559 --> 00:22:56.880 Okay. 00:22:57.039 --> 00:22:58.079 I said, okay, let's go. 00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:00.880 And we went, we let the man hear it. 00:23:01.039 --> 00:23:05.759 And the guy said, Um, yeah, we could send you a contract right now. 00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:08.160 Whoa, that's nice. 00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:09.599 Yeah. 00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:10.160 Whoa. 00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:12.079 It wasn't your soul, right? 00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:13.440 It was just money. 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:14.640 Yeah. 00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:17.200 Some of those contracts, you don't know. 00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:18.960 Yeah. 00:23:19.039 --> 00:23:20.160 I I still didn't know. 00:23:20.319 --> 00:23:22.000 I didn't know anything about that. 00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:26.000 Like I said, that the term licensing licensing wasn't a thing then. 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:27.279 So I had never heard of it. 00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:29.359 I didn't know, I didn't know what this was. 00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:33.279 This is this is February 2005, right? 00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:33.519 Wow. 00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:36.000 I had no idea what this was. 00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:39.519 I just said he said, Well, can you, he said, I hear your music, I like your music. 00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:43.519 Can you continue to make music like this though on a regular basis? 00:23:43.599 --> 00:23:46.559 Because anybody could put together some stuff, you know, a one-time thing. 00:23:46.720 --> 00:23:48.240 But they needed somebody who can do it. 00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:50.079 Consistently, right. 00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:53.279 Because they had this, the Tyra Banks show was coming out, right? 00:23:54.640 --> 00:23:54.799 Wow. 00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:55.119 Yeah. 00:23:55.279 --> 00:23:57.519 So they said, we need somebody to do this on a consistent basis. 00:23:57.599 --> 00:24:00.160 I said, well, yeah, I can do it, right? 00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:03.119 February, though, 2005. 00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:06.799 So I started doing it and I was working consistently on it. 00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:11.920 But I didn't get paid until July 2006. 00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:12.720 No way. 00:24:13.359 --> 00:24:13.519 Right? 00:24:13.599 --> 00:24:15.039 That's over a year and a

half. 00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:20.799 So that's the part I'm probably jumping, jumping forward on your questions. 00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:25.759 That's the part that people don't understand about this business that it doesn't happen overnight. 00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:26.559 It takes some time. 00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:26.880 Yeah. 00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:27.759 It takes a lot of time. 00:24:28.160 --> 00:24:29.839 To build that wall and yeah, yeah. 00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:32.160 Your accomplishments before they come back around. 00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:32.559 Yeah. 00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:36.960 Did you want to get into the story of um when you when you first got your check? 00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:38.480 Yeah, we can. 00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:40.799 And your conversation with your wife. 00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:44.079 Well, you did, you did some serious research, right? 00:24:44.640 --> 00:24:45.039 Yeah. 00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:46.400 Am I saying too much? 00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:48.160 I mean, it was all it was all public. 00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:49.359 It's out there already, right? 00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:50.480 Yeah, it was all public. 00:24:50.720 --> 00:24:54.000 So, so so like I said, 2006, right? 00:24:54.160 --> 00:25:07.119 We have now moved from Phoenix, I mean from LA to Phoenix in the middle of all this, because you know, I didn't know, I didn't know, because you don't know what you're gonna get paid in sync licensing, because you don't know how much your music is gonna be used. 00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:09.920 I just knew my stuff was on TV every day, right? 00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:10.960 But I hadn't got paid. 00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:15.279 Men, I used to sit down and watch the Tyra Banks show every day, right? 00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:19.279 And I we it I mean, it was like back to back, the whole show. 00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:21.920 Whenever she went out of commercial, it was me. 00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:25.279 When it came out of commercial, it was me every single day. 00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:26.559 But I wasn't getting paid. 00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:30.400 So I'm just thinking, okay, well, I know I'm gonna get paid, but how much is it gonna be? 00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:30.880 Yeah. 00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:38.799 So um I had um, I had applied to work at the airport here in Phoenix because I used to work at LAX years ago, right? 00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:39.119 Okay. 00:25:39.279 --> 00:25:40.960 So I said, forget this music thing. 00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:43.119 I'm just gonna go ahead and forget it. 00:25:43.359 --> 00:25:47.599 I don't know if this if this sync licensing thing is is gonna work out or not, right? 00:25:47.680 --> 00:25:47.920 Yeah. 00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:56.880 So I applied for the airport, got hired, and the day that I was supposed to start, my wife said, she said, you know what? 00:25:57.680 --> 00:25:59.119 This thing might work, right? 00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:05.599 She said, so I'll go ahead, I'll get a job, and you keep doing this, and maybe it'll work, right? 00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:11.440 So yeah, so she, yeah, this is kind of she has a lot to do with with this, you know, working out. 00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:13.599 Because I could have given it up right then and there, right? 00:26:13.759 --> 00:26:14.000 Yeah, yeah. 00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:14.880 So we did that. 00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:16.480 She went, she went in, she got a job. 00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:20.160 I just kept working on the music and still seeing, hearing the stuff on TV. 00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:26.640 Then I finally got paid, and uh yeah, I was able to call her and say, hey, yep, put that notice in. 00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:27.920 Put your two weeks in. 00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:29.039 Put your two weeks in. 00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:29.440 Yeah. 00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:32.000 And she said, nah, put it in two hours. 00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:33.839 I'm out right now. 00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:35.759 So yeah, it worked, it worked out. 00:26:35.920 --> 00:26:36.559 It worked out. 00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:37.200 That's cool. 00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:42.240 Um, you've had more than 16,000 placements and credits. 00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:45.440 When you hear a number like that, does it even seem real to you? 00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:46.319 Wow. 00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:47.599 No. 00:26:48.400 --> 00:26:49.039 No, it doesn't. 00:26:49.279 --> 00:26:50.160 No, I wouldn't think so. 00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:51.119 It doesn't. 00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:53.279 Because I I remember the first one. 00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:55.920 You know, I remember when I made it to a hundred. 00:26:56.079 --> 00:26:56.640 You know what I mean? 00:26:56.720 --> 00:27:03.039 So you know, 16,000, I would have never thought I would have that much music, you know, being used. 00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:07.440 That doesn't mean 16 song, uh, 16,000 songs. 00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:10.799 It just means it's been played 16,000 times. 00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:14.960 It may be around a thousand songs that I have out there or so. 00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:18.240 But yeah, so they've been used, yeah, 16,000 times. 00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:23.680 So that means 16,000 times my music was chosen out of thousands. 00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:27.119 I'm sure they have thousands of pieces of music to use, right? 00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:30.240 And but yes, 16,000 times. 00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:32.640 How often does that number change and go up? 00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:38.799 Roughly um a little less than a thousand per. 00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:42.319 For a while, it was about a thousand a year. 00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:42.960 Okay. 00:27:43.279 --> 00:27:48.960 So if like if if if it stayed that way, then it would be 21,000, you know, because it's been 21 years, right? 00:27:49.119 --> 00:27:52.240 So roughly, you know, it's it's around there. 00:27:52.640 --> 00:27:56.400 You give or take, eight, eight hundred to a thousand a year. 00:27:56.640 --> 00:27:57.119 Yeah. 00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:02.799 And and yeah, and I I see

people every day now that sync licensing is is popular. 00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:10.160 I see people on social media and they, you know, they celebrate, oh wow, I got three placements this month. 00:28:10.400 --> 00:28:11.039 I'm thinking. 00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:16.640 And you know, I was kind of spoiled because I right out the gate, I was able to get this show to myself. 00:28:16.720 --> 00:28:18.400 So it doesn't really happen that way. 00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:18.799 Yeah. 00:28:19.359 --> 00:28:19.759 A lot of time. 00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:23.680 It's just, yeah, I was blessed right place at the right time. 00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:24.400 Yeah. 00:28:24.720 --> 00:28:33.920 So with all these placements and all these shows, I'm sure I've heard your music maybe a hundred times or more, and I wouldn't even know it because there's they don't give you credit for it. 00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:36.000 At the end, I think you see the credit, right? 00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:36.319 Or no? 00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:37.119 No, no, no. 00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:39.599 There's been a few shows I've had. 00:28:39.759 --> 00:28:45.519 Um, like I said, the the like there's a difference in the shows that have reruns and the shows that don't. 00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:54.799 So shows like Extra and TMZ, which I'm on the most, they don't do reruns because their shows are current, you know, entertainment stories, right? 00:28:54.880 --> 00:28:56.160 So there's no reruns on those shows. 00:28:56.480 --> 00:28:58.160 Tartary play news, old news, yeah. 00:28:58.400 --> 00:29:03.119 So at the ends of those shows, they'll just show it will say telepictures music. 00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:03.759 That's it. 00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:04.799 That's who did that music. 00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:05.920 They don't show each person. 00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:10.319 Plus, there's you know, 50 to 60 pieces of music used on each episode, right? 00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:12.160 So they can't list everybody on there, right? 00:29:12.319 --> 00:29:22.000 But then there are a few shows where I've had I have seen my name a couple of times, but I mean like a I'm talking less than five times where I have seen my name on the credits. 00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:23.359 And that's yeah, that's kind of cool. 00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:24.319 It's kind of different. 00:29:24.559 --> 00:29:28.160 Is there any type of like criteria when it comes to making sync music? 00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:31.599 Does it have to be like 30 seconds long, a minute long, two minutes long? 00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:33.519 Like, what what are they really looking for? 00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:36.079 Between a minute and a half and two minutes. 00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:36.559 Okay. 00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:48.799 Yeah, and it's not like regular, um, like if you're doing music for an artist, it's a little different because you have to um like you have to have a super short intro, right? 00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:50.319 You have to because you have to get right into it. 00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:52.720 The track has to happen in a minute and a half. 00:29:52.960 --> 00:29:54.000 You gotta catch the attention, yeah. 00:29:54.160 --> 00:29:54.960 You gotta get it right away. 00:29:55.119 --> 00:29:56.160 Yeah, you gotta get it right away. 00:29:56.319 --> 00:29:57.279 You have to keep it interesting. 00:29:57.440 --> 00:30:09.359 So yeah, they're they're pretty short, and you have to make sure um the track is syncable, meaning that there's things you you have to have things in the music that will catch a video editor's ear. 00:30:09.519 --> 00:30:15.519 So you have certain things that that they can hear, or I can cut a video to this because it has like nice hips here and there. 00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:17.440 You can write BPMs and everything, right? 00:30:17.519 --> 00:30:19.279 Yeah, all that stuff matters, yeah. 00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:20.880 Wow, that's really cool. 00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:30.400 Out of all your placements, have have you had one that's just completely I'm I know you mentioned the one on Fox News, but has there been any other ones that just you know completely came out of left field? 00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:32.640 You're like, whoa, they picked up my music. 00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:40.720 Yeah, there was one, um, I think it was like CBS Sports or something one time, right? 00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:47.519 Where they're doing some highlights and I hear something, you know, I look but because it's my music, I recognize it instantly, right? 00:30:47.599 --> 00:30:47.680 Yeah. 00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:50.319 So I hear someone go, hey, you know, and I'm just watching T. 00:30:50.559 --> 00:30:52.720 Those are the good ones where you know I'm just watching TV. 00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:56.240 I'm not thinking about licensing, I'm just watching TV, right? 00:30:56.319 --> 00:30:58.799 Yeah, and I hear something go, that's my music. 00:30:58.880 --> 00:31:02.160 Those those are the ones that that are the coolest because you're surprised. 00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:07.119 Now I know I can watch extra every day pretty much and hear I expect to hear, you know. 00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:09.279 I'm mad if I don't hear something, right? 00:31:09.519 --> 00:31:13.839 So those the surprise ones are are the cool ones. 00:31:13.920 --> 00:31:20.480 That that may have been one of the most surprising because I had no idea that um CBS Sports was even one of the clients. 00:31:20.559 --> 00:31:21.039 I didn't even know. 00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:23.359 I just sent in music, they use it wherever. 00:31:23.519 --> 00:31:25.519 So yeah, those are that was a cool one. 00:31:25.599 --> 00:31:25.839 Wow. 00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:26.799 That was cool. 00:31:27.279 --> 00:31:34.559 Uh your music has been placed with TMZ, like we've mentioned, uh, Fox Sports, Extra, CNN, BET, all the good stuff. 00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:36.559 The Jenver Hudson show. 00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:45.920 Um what is the placement that's still you stop and it's like, wow, I can't

believe that you know it ended up there, like in a shocking way. 00:31:46.079 --> 00:31:48.000 Like, I can't believe they use my music. 00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:48.799 Wow. 00:31:49.279 --> 00:31:54.799 Maybe the the queen or whoever, you know, the Teen Titans cartoon. 00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:55.680 The Teen Titans? 00:31:55.920 --> 00:31:57.119 Teen Titans cartoon, yeah. 00:31:57.200 --> 00:32:00.160 Because like everybody else, when we grow up watching cartoons, right? 00:32:00.319 --> 00:32:01.359 And you hear music. 00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:06.400 Well, at least for somebody like me, that's all I would I would notice the music before anything else, right? 00:32:06.559 --> 00:32:07.039 That's cool. 00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:12.480 So, yeah, the Teen Titans cartoon is is um, that's a big one for me. 00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:13.039 Wow. 00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:14.880 Yeah, that's that's the big one. 00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:15.599 Yeah. 00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:25.359 What's the mid what's the biggest mince misconception musicians have about getting their music on television and movies and commercials and other media? 00:32:26.559 --> 00:32:28.240 That you get rich overnight? 00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:29.039 What? 00:32:29.359 --> 00:32:29.920 That's what they think. 00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:35.279 It takes a lot of time, a lot of time, a lot of dedication. 00:32:35.519 --> 00:32:38.000 You have to, you have to work a lot. 00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:39.599 You have to work at it a lot. 00:32:39.759 --> 00:32:43.200 And and and it's not as glamorous as people think. 00:32:43.359 --> 00:32:51.519 People probably think you watch TV and you hear the music, you might think it's some, you know, big famous producer, you know, making the music for this show. 00:32:51.759 --> 00:32:54.480 Well, it's just Rob Miller, you know, up the street in the house. 00:32:54.559 --> 00:32:56.480 You know, it's it's not glamorous like that. 00:32:56.640 --> 00:33:01.119 So people think, well, I'm a I'm I'll get rich and famous from this. 00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:02.160 It's not the case. 00:33:02.319 --> 00:33:04.079 Nobody's gonna know who you are. 00:33:04.319 --> 00:33:09.519 Nobody knows who I am, except like in this case, where you know, you did some research and we're talking about it. 00:33:09.680 --> 00:33:12.960 Other than that, like you asked about my name on the credits, it's not there. 00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:14.079 So nobody knows. 00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:19.599 So it's it's not for somebody who wants to be or who's doing it for popularity. 00:33:19.839 --> 00:33:20.240 Yeah. 00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:20.720 Yeah. 00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:22.000 It's not for it's not that. 00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:23.839 It's just it's just a business. 00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:24.640 It's a business. 00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:32.880 It just happens to be a business that you can it happens to be something you love to do, but it's just a business. 00:33:33.119 --> 00:33:33.839 It's really cool. 00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:35.440 I think I think it's really cool. 00:33:35.599 --> 00:33:39.920 Especially you say that it's not really glamorous or fun, but it's what you make of it. 00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:41.599 I mean, I've seen your Instagram feeds. 00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:42.559 I mean, it's fun. 00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:46.720 You don't look like you have a glamorous life, but you look like you enjoy your life for sure. 00:33:46.799 --> 00:33:49.119 And it it looks fun and you love what you do. 00:33:49.279 --> 00:33:54.240 And I mean, you could shoot a video and not say a word and just shoot you you see the passion. 00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:57.279 I mean, you the passion is is captured in the video. 00:33:57.440 --> 00:34:05.519 So, I mean, it's something that you love to do, and I I think that you know, when you when you listen when you do something you love, they say that it's no longer work, you know. 00:34:05.599 --> 00:34:06.240 It's just, you know. 00:34:06.880 --> 00:34:12.400 Yeah, I feel like I've like I haven't worked in in over 20 years because I've been doing what I love. 00:34:12.559 --> 00:34:12.800 Wow. 00:34:13.039 --> 00:34:14.960 So that's the best part about it. 00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:20.639 But you you also have to be the kind of person who like it works for me to be in the house all the time. 00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:21.039 Yeah. 00:34:21.199 --> 00:34:23.760 Like I'm I don't have to go to some studio somewhere. 00:34:23.920 --> 00:34:25.119 I'm in, I'm in the house. 00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:32.320 You know, you have to be that kind of person where you can you you don't mind spending hours in that chair all day like I do. 00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:34.079 It it works perfect for me. 00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:39.519 And stay driven because I mean I've even seen your videos where it looks like you know, every single day you treat it like a business. 00:34:39.679 --> 00:34:43.519 You don't just you don't just sleep in and be like, I own this and I can do whatever I want. 00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:51.440 No, you still clock in every day, even though if it's you know it's your own studio, you're there, you're showing up and you're putting in the work, and yeah, you can you can see that. 00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:51.920 Yeah. 00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:55.519 Well, that was a question I had, but you just answered it about working. 00:34:55.679 --> 00:34:56.480 That is your job. 00:34:56.639 --> 00:35:02.159 I mean, you get up and you and you write music and play music and record it and send it and market it. 00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:03.599 Okay, so that's what you okay. 00:35:03.679 --> 00:35:04.480 Yeah, okay. 00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:13.679 Can an independent musician realistically make money through sync licensing, or do you need a major label or major connection to get you started? 00:35:17.840 --> 00:35:22.000 You don't necessarily have to have a a major label. 00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:25.599 It would just take a serious amount of work. 00:35:25.920 --> 00:35:31.519

Like I'll like I said, I was lucky, you know, out the gate where I was connected with Warner Brothers from day one. 00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:35.119 So I was lucky enough to have, you know, a connection. 00:35:35.519 --> 00:35:36.159 Yeah, yeah. 00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:38.480 So you do you have to have some connections. 00:35:38.880 --> 00:35:40.239 It it can work. 00:35:40.559 --> 00:35:43.840 I I never I would never tell somebody, no, it's not realistic. 00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:45.679 Like, why would I say that when it works? 00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:48.880 It worked for me, so why couldn't it work for somebody else? 00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:49.920 So yeah, it's possible. 00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:51.440 It's definitely possible. 00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:55.920 When you're listening to a piece of music specifically for sync, what are you listening for? 00:35:56.480 --> 00:35:58.159 What makes the song syncable? 00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:06.960 A song that's that's syncable is if it's if it's instrumental, then you have to keep it interesting. 00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:10.159 But it's an instrumental, so there's no vocals on top of it, right? 00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:14.480 So it can't just it can't sound like an instrumental. 00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:29.519 You have to play something on the top of it, some some sort of interesting melody to keep it interesting, but at the same time, it has to be out of the way because there's gonna be a vocal or a dialogue from the show on top of it, right? 00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:37.760 So you have to you have to be able to play this melody and keep the music sounding full without getting in the way of of um dialogue, right? 00:36:37.840 --> 00:36:48.559 So so there's that, and then like you said, there's the the tempos matter, you have to have certain things in there to catch that audio or video editor's ear. 00:36:48.719 --> 00:36:49.920 So things like that. 00:36:50.079 --> 00:36:54.800 And you know, to you want you want your song to be attracted. 00:36:55.039 --> 00:36:57.360 You want to you want to attract that that video editor. 00:36:57.440 --> 00:36:58.800 That's who you're making this music for. 00:36:59.039 --> 00:37:02.719 They're the ones who will decide whether or not, you know, it's gonna be you. 00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:04.320 So you're not making music for yourself. 00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:14.800 I've had people send me stuff that they like, and I'll I'll tell them when, you know, I like it, you like it, but you have to know that you you this person that you're sending it to, they have to accept it. 00:37:14.960 --> 00:37:17.599 So you have to make it to where it's usable. 00:37:17.679 --> 00:37:21.920 And if it's not usable, it could be the best feeling track in the world. 00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:25.199 But if it's not right for sync, it's not right. 00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:29.360 Nobody can cut to it and and slice their videos to it, yeah. 00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:31.679 Yeah, if it doesn't have that feeling, yeah. 00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:36.559 So do you play um just keyboard or do you put other instruments in there too? 00:37:37.280 --> 00:37:39.840 Well, drum well, I started on drums. 00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:46.400 I went to MI in Hollywood for drums first, and then you know, the keyboard came after after that. 00:37:46.639 --> 00:37:57.119 So I don't really talk about the baritone much, although that was you know six years, that was all through middle school, high school, one year-ish of college. 00:37:57.280 --> 00:38:02.320 So, um, so there's baritone, drums, and keyboard. 00:38:02.559 --> 00:38:05.199 Okay, so you don't do guitar or bass or anything like that. 00:38:05.360 --> 00:38:06.719 No, no, I didn't think so. 00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:07.119 No. 00:38:08.239 --> 00:38:12.239 Are you talking about like actually playing it or are you talking about like putting it in his music? 00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:14.559 Because actually playing it for his music. 00:38:14.719 --> 00:38:17.519 Well, he can put it in his music without actually playing the instrument. 00:38:17.599 --> 00:38:19.280 Like they can on the keys. 00:38:19.599 --> 00:38:21.360 Oh, you can on the keyboards you can do that. 00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:22.480 I wasn't sure if you could. 00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:23.840 Yeah, you simulate all that. 00:38:24.159 --> 00:38:36.480 Oh, okay, you can play on the keyboard, you can play like I can I can simulate the drums on the keyboard, I can simulate the bass on the keyboard, but the instrument you can't simulate is guitar. 00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:40.719 You can't you can't fake this drum of a guitar, right? 00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:50.480 So you you may have seen some of my Instagram stories where I'll tell I know all these, I know so many guitar players dancing stuff been in Arizona, but I still have to fake stuff on the guitar. 00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:52.880 But I know all these guitar players. 00:38:53.039 --> 00:38:57.679 So hopefully some of them, some of them listening to this and come through and play some stuff. 00:38:57.840 --> 00:39:02.880 Because I have to really go through some stuff to fake that you can't fake the strum. 00:39:03.119 --> 00:39:06.400 Hey, I had Hunter on the episode and he can play the guitar. 00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:08.079 There you go. 00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:11.199 I might have a connection, a finder's fee in here. 00:39:12.800 --> 00:39:20.000 After more than three decades in music, do you only focus on sync music or do you still create other personal projects? 00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:24.719 Good question because I just I just had a a rapper in the studio. 00:39:25.119 --> 00:39:26.719 What just two weeks ago. 00:39:26.800 --> 00:39:27.280 Two weeks ago. 00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:28.400 Yeah. 00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:38.079 So so he asked, he asked kind of the same question because he knew me as, like he was introduced to me as, you know, I'm the guy who does some TV or some music for TV, right? 00:39:38.159 --> 00:39:40.320 So he

comes to the studio, right? 00:39:40.559 --> 00:39:42.079 And he asked the same thing. 00:39:42.159 --> 00:39:54.480 And I said, Well, you know, I I can do, you know, some stuff for you, but um if I was to sit here and because I have to think about time, like the time that I spend doing this stuff, right? 00:39:54.559 --> 00:40:03.760 So I said, well, uh, if if I sit here and I make a track for you, and then once the track is done, then I have to make the decision. 00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:08.000 Do I I said this to him, and it was, it was, I had to, I had to apologize to him. 00:40:08.079 --> 00:40:09.360 I didn't mean to be disrespectful. 00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:15.280 I said, well, should I should I give the track to you or should I give it to Warner Brothers? 00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:16.719 I said, no, I don't know. 00:40:16.800 --> 00:40:17.760 I didn't say it that way. 00:40:17.920 --> 00:40:27.280 I said, should I give the track to Warner Brothers or should I give it to some artist, some local artist who more than likely is not gonna make it, is the way I said it. 00:40:27.599 --> 00:40:27.679 Right. 00:40:28.159 --> 00:40:31.199 So it was kind of it was kind of disrespectful, right? 00:40:31.360 --> 00:40:32.880 Because that's that's the dilemma, right? 00:40:32.960 --> 00:40:33.119 Yeah. 00:40:33.280 --> 00:40:43.039 Yeah, I can work on somebody's project, but in in this position, in this business, you have to decide, okay, do I want to spend time on this project? 00:40:43.360 --> 00:40:47.599 I have to really believe in that artist for me to spend the time working on artists. 00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:49.679 Otherwise, it won't go anywhere, right? 00:40:50.480 --> 00:40:54.800 Well, most people, I mean, this business, you know, what's the percentage of people who make it? 00:40:55.039 --> 00:40:56.320 Yeah, very small, isn't it? 00:40:56.559 --> 00:41:02.960 When I know that I can spend that same time and put some music together and send it to TV and it's gonna be used for something, right? 00:41:03.039 --> 00:41:03.760 Yeah, yeah. 00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:04.960 That's very interesting. 00:41:05.280 --> 00:41:12.079 So I will I will work on an artist project if I I have to really believe in that artist. 00:41:12.239 --> 00:41:18.239 And I did, you know, I did that um a few years ago, just what four or five years ago. 00:41:18.320 --> 00:41:23.599 I did a gospel project with somebody because I believed in this person as an artist. 00:41:23.679 --> 00:41:26.639 I said, Yeah, this this person has it all, right? 00:41:26.960 --> 00:41:28.320 This could do something, right? 00:41:28.639 --> 00:41:33.519 We did the project, we finished it, and he sort of abandoned it. 00:41:33.599 --> 00:41:37.199 Because after you get done with the project, you gotta now, now you have to promote it, right? 00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:40.800 Yeah, it it just died for no reason. 00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:44.079 So to me, that time was a waste. 00:41:44.239 --> 00:41:44.719 Wow. 00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:45.760 Yeah. 00:41:46.400 --> 00:41:48.000 You ever talked to him about that? 00:41:48.320 --> 00:41:49.519 Yeah, all the time. 00:41:49.840 --> 00:41:51.360 He had other projects after that. 00:41:51.599 --> 00:41:52.800 Robin, do another project. 00:41:52.960 --> 00:41:54.079 I'm thinking, mm-mm, mm-mm. 00:41:54.320 --> 00:41:55.280 I believe you're not. 00:41:56.400 --> 00:41:57.760 That's messed up. 00:41:58.159 --> 00:41:59.599 That's that's this business. 00:41:59.840 --> 00:42:05.679 That's one of the struggles of being, you know, a self-employed musician. 00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:11.599 Sometimes you have to you have to, you know, make harsh decisions and tell people no. 00:42:11.840 --> 00:42:15.039 And that's not always easy for me to tell people. 00:42:15.360 --> 00:42:15.679 No. 00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:16.239 Yeah. 00:42:17.440 --> 00:42:17.599 Yeah. 00:42:17.840 --> 00:42:18.800 That's hard. 00:42:19.760 --> 00:42:30.079 So you've watched the music industry evolve like from physical media and traditional broadcasting to streaming, social media, and now you you know the threat of AI. 00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:36.880 What is what's changed the most, and what do you see AI becoming an opportunity or a threat? 00:42:37.119 --> 00:42:41.519 And uh yeah, what what's that like for for being a musician? 00:42:41.599 --> 00:42:43.840 But then also what's that like for licensing? 00:42:44.079 --> 00:42:53.039 Because at some point AI could just make a whole bunch of well, it was it's it's been uh, you know, it's a hot topic right now, right? 00:42:53.199 --> 00:43:02.960 So in sync licensing at least, and I think also in the regular uh music business, they're start they're starting to reject the AI music. 00:43:03.119 --> 00:43:15.840 In fact, I heard that Spotify, if you're an if you've if you create an AI artist and AI music, but it's not a real person, it's just all AI, then your project would be listed as AI. 00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:17.199 Like you can't face it. 00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:18.079 Yeah, it should be. 00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:19.280 Yes, it should be. 00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:19.920 Yeah. 00:43:20.239 --> 00:43:26.159 So I mean, I don't I don't think uh to me, it's not a threat. 00:43:26.239 --> 00:43:33.199 Like, like some like I my sister asked me, in fact, she said, well, with AI, are you worried about AI taking over? 00:43:33.440 --> 00:43:44.800 And I'm thinking, no, I'm not I'm not afraid of it because as a musician, I can I can still manipulate it, I think, better than somebody who does not have music, you know, um, experience. 00:43:44.960 --> 00:43:49.679 I can manipulate it as as good as they can or better, because I have you know experience in it, right? 00:43:49.760 --> 00:43:51.440 So I'm not worried about it. 00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:55.280 There are ways you can use it as a tool, right? 00:43:55.519 --> 00:43:59.599 Um, but you shouldn't just type a prompt. 00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:02.559 And make a

song, like you're just not touching anything. 00:44:03.119 --> 00:44:04.320 No, that that's not right. 00:44:04.639 --> 00:44:05.519 That's just not right. 00:44:06.159 --> 00:44:07.440 Where's the talent in that? 00:44:07.840 --> 00:44:13.519 The creativity is what makes it fun because it's it's your signature, it's what you're putting into it, your fingerprints. 00:44:14.079 --> 00:44:15.440 Because people don't, people don't. 00:44:15.519 --> 00:44:20.880 And me and I had this conversation with Reggie about the journey of music, right? 00:44:21.039 --> 00:44:24.400 Where the the journey is it starts in the beginning. 00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:26.960 Like it, and this could be for a church service or anything. 00:44:27.280 --> 00:44:35.840 When you create music, the journey is from when you get the idea of the music and then you create the music, and then there's a finished product at the end, right? 00:44:36.400 --> 00:44:40.000 So people that use AI, they're not focusing on that. 00:44:40.159 --> 00:44:40.960 Forget the journey. 00:44:41.039 --> 00:44:45.360 They just want to type something and they just want to get to the end result instantly, right? 00:44:45.679 --> 00:44:49.360 And it's just not, it's not, it's not real. 00:44:49.519 --> 00:44:51.440 Not only that, I got I had a conversation. 00:44:51.519 --> 00:44:54.960 I was with a guy last week, just last or two weeks ago. 00:44:55.199 --> 00:44:59.280 And this is another guy, this is a uh a Christian artist, right? 00:44:59.599 --> 00:45:05.679 And he asked me about AI, because he said, Yeah, I can't afford to pay you know somebody to do my project. 00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:06.960 I could just use AI. 00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:07.360 Wow. 00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:10.079 So I said, well, yeah, you can. 00:45:10.639 --> 00:45:11.679 You get what you pay for, though. 00:45:11.840 --> 00:45:18.639 You get what you pay for, but you have to think about um like when sampling was invented, right? 00:45:18.800 --> 00:45:26.079 When sampling came out, the problem then was people's music was being used on records or whatever, right? 00:45:26.159 --> 00:45:27.440 But they weren't getting credit for it. 00:45:27.519 --> 00:45:30.320 They were using actual recordings, right? 00:45:30.800 --> 00:45:33.920 And it was you basically stealing their music, right? 00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:46.239 So uh AI is the same in a sense, because if if there's a keyboard part, if if AI produces a keyboard part and puts it on your record, that sound comes from somewhere. 00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:48.480 Yeah, yeah, it's learning from us. 00:45:48.880 --> 00:45:49.199 Right. 00:45:49.440 --> 00:45:54.159 It's learning from us, but I I think it's even I think it's even deeper than that. 00:45:54.320 --> 00:45:59.360 Because what does that mean when some when people say we're training AI to make music? 00:45:59.519 --> 00:46:09.039 How are you gonna train AI to make the same exact keyboard sound that I created when I was called the professor? 00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:15.119 Like I'm I created a certain blessing regime, that's why he calls me that because it's a certain sound that I want to use. 00:46:15.440 --> 00:46:22.639 How are you gonna get that same sound out of AI unless it's just taking recordings that it's picked up somewhere? 00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:23.199 Yeah. 00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:24.800 It's stealing. 00:46:25.039 --> 00:46:25.599 Is it yeah? 00:46:25.760 --> 00:46:29.840 And it's it's taking it from somewhere that you don't know, so you feel like it's brand new. 00:46:30.079 --> 00:46:31.519 It's not, but yeah. 00:46:31.760 --> 00:46:34.079 I mean, you even tapped into it. 00:46:34.159 --> 00:46:38.320 I mean, I like I know 10 drummers, but all 10 drummers play differently. 00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:42.239 It's not like, oh, I know a drummer, so he's gonna, you know, no, like KJ. 00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:45.119 KJ's gonna really, really, really get into it. 00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:51.679 Yeah, and there's other drummers that, you know, they lightly tap it and they they do other things, and everybody just has their different signature sound. 00:46:51.760 --> 00:46:58.079 And yeah, I don't know how AI is going to manipulate that or copy it without stealing it, you know. 00:46:58.320 --> 00:46:59.039 It can't. 00:46:59.199 --> 00:47:00.480 I don't think it can. 00:47:00.800 --> 00:47:02.960 It has to be stolen from somewhere. 00:47:03.119 --> 00:47:03.599 Yeah. 00:47:03.840 --> 00:47:12.400 Or or even if it's if it's vocals, you know, AI can create some real real nice sound and vocals, but where do those voices come from? 00:47:12.800 --> 00:47:13.199 Yeah. 00:47:13.360 --> 00:47:15.760 The computer doesn't have a voice, it doesn't. 00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:23.599 It's g it's it's getting it's getting it from somewhere and manipulating it or whatever, but it still came from a project that humans touch. 00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:32.000 Not not to mention the fact that if you if you create your songs that way, you're kind of just lazy and you don't you don't really have a love for music. 00:47:32.239 --> 00:47:33.760 I don't think you're really creating. 00:47:34.079 --> 00:47:36.880 That's almost like a that's almost like a microwave of cooking. 00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:41.920 It's like I pulled it out of the freezer and I threw it in the microwave, and now all of a sudden I'm a three-minute chef. 00:47:42.079 --> 00:47:42.400 Yeah. 00:47:43.519 --> 00:47:43.760 No. 00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:44.320 No. 00:47:44.559 --> 00:47:49.599 But why would you even why would you want to do that as a as a musician or a songwriter? 00:47:49.760 --> 00:47:52.239 Why would you want to do like for me? 00:47:52.960 --> 00:48:00.159 Like the the joy in it is the or the love for music, is that I actually put my hands on the keys, not actually play this stuff. 00:48:00.320 --> 00:48:01.360 It's actually me. 00:48:01.519 --> 00:48:05.119 It's not just something I typed and made, you know, it's just

it's just crazy. 00:48:05.280 --> 00:48:08.559 It's it's your life experience that you put in there and you capture it in that moment. 00:48:08.719 --> 00:48:10.639 Yeah, that's really cool. 00:48:10.880 --> 00:48:15.840 Um, you've built a career not only as a musician, but also on the business side of music. 00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:23.119 What does someone actually need to understand about the business side if they want to start monetizing their music into a real income? 00:48:24.320 --> 00:48:28.800 Uh well, you have to you have to do your own homework. 00:48:28.960 --> 00:48:36.239 You have to um because it in my like in my situation, there is no, I don't work for any company, right? 00:48:36.480 --> 00:48:37.760 It's just me, right? 00:48:38.079 --> 00:48:43.119 So I actually have a horror story about the the sync licensing, right? 00:48:43.280 --> 00:48:46.880 So I was so in the beginning, like everything was going so good. 00:48:46.960 --> 00:48:53.199 I was out, like I said, I was kind of spoiled in the beginning because I had all of a sudden I'm I'm giving music to Warner Brothers. 00:48:53.280 --> 00:48:57.920 So I have all this music out there and I'm watching TV and I'm sitting back, like, yeah, I'm just hey, this the life is good. 00:48:58.800 --> 00:48:59.440 Right, right. 00:48:59.679 --> 00:49:04.639 But what I didn't know happened, this is what happened because I didn't do some of my own research, right? 00:49:04.800 --> 00:49:05.280 Oh boy. 00:49:05.519 --> 00:49:11.599 So we had we had TMZ, we had TMZ Sports, and TMZ Live. 00:49:11.760 --> 00:49:13.119 There's there's that's three different TV. 00:49:13.519 --> 00:49:14.400 So they separate, yeah. 00:49:14.480 --> 00:49:18.239 You write the three different shows, but they're legally they're separate, right? 00:49:18.559 --> 00:49:20.320 Same show, but different business. 00:49:20.559 --> 00:49:21.440 Exactly, right? 00:49:21.599 --> 00:49:26.320 So, but I knew from from day one, I was on TMZ from day one. 00:49:26.480 --> 00:49:31.440 Then they created TMZ Sports later, then they created TMZ Live, and I'm on all of it. 00:49:31.519 --> 00:49:32.159 I'm watching them all. 00:49:32.239 --> 00:49:33.440 I'm I'm hearing my stuff. 00:49:33.599 --> 00:49:34.800 Life is good, right? 00:49:34.880 --> 00:49:47.360 But it it started in 2007 is when TMZ started, but it wasn't until 2021, where I'm I'm finally doing some research, right? 00:49:47.440 --> 00:49:47.760 Oh, right. 00:49:48.079 --> 00:49:51.440 I'm on the ASCAT website and I'm looking through it. 00:49:51.519 --> 00:49:54.639 I'm like, wait a minute, these numbers kind of don't add up, right? 00:49:54.719 --> 00:49:58.880 Because I had there's three different shows, and it something's not adding up. 00:49:58.960 --> 00:50:00.239 The money didn't look right, right? 00:50:00.320 --> 00:50:07.440 So what what in in in the end, what turned out to be was I was only being paid for TMZ. 00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:12.079 I was never paid for TMZ Sports or TMZ Live. 00:50:13.039 --> 00:50:13.760 How could they do that? 00:50:13.920 --> 00:50:14.559 That didn't seem right. 00:50:15.440 --> 00:50:16.079 That didn't seem right. 00:50:16.239 --> 00:50:17.039 How do you dispute that? 00:50:17.119 --> 00:50:19.039 Do you need a lawyer or what do you do? 00:50:19.440 --> 00:50:21.840 I'm still it I'm kind of still, it's not over yet. 00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:39.119 Oh but I did kind of, you know, I did kind of um because the way it works out is between me and this company that has the that owns the music library, I give them the music, they license the music because they produce TMZ shows, right? 00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:40.800 So we kind of work together. 00:50:40.960 --> 00:50:44.000 And they helped this company Ask Cap pays us, right? 00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:44.400 Wow. 00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:50.800 So the discrepancy was between me and this company together versus ASCAP. 00:50:51.039 --> 00:50:51.360 Dang. 00:50:51.679 --> 00:51:02.719 But ASCAP said in the end, when I when I found out this that there was a problem and I told Warner Brothers, now I'm telling Warner Brothers, not only did I not get paid, but you didn't get paid, right? 00:51:02.880 --> 00:51:09.039 Because we we share 50% of the writers' credit or the the um what's it called? 00:51:09.119 --> 00:51:10.880 The um uh profit. 00:51:11.360 --> 00:51:12.400 Yeah, sort of. 00:51:12.559 --> 00:51:17.519 So so I'm telling them, hey, we got a we have a problem against ASCAP, right? 00:51:17.760 --> 00:51:18.559 Now they care. 00:51:18.800 --> 00:51:24.800 Now they well, yeah, and they did, and they they proved to me that they did their homework and they did everything they were supposed to do. 00:51:25.039 --> 00:51:26.480 I proved that I had everything. 00:51:26.719 --> 00:51:28.719 So now it's us against ASCAP. 00:51:28.960 --> 00:51:39.920 So ASCAP says if you look in the small print, it says that if you have a problem beyond two years or something like that, then it's too bad, there's nothing we can do about it. 00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:42.800 Now, I'm this is a seven-year period I'm talking about, right? 00:51:42.880 --> 00:51:46.960 So they're telling me that five years, I'm just gonna lose five years, right? 00:51:47.679 --> 00:51:56.800 But the but but the small print was was really saying if there was a discrepancy between me and ASCAP, the problem wasn't there. 00:51:56.960 --> 00:52:01.280 The problem was between me or me and this other company. 00:52:01.360 --> 00:52:03.280 No, no, I'm I'm sorry, I said that wrong. 00:52:03.440 --> 00:52:11.840 The problem they were saying if that I have a if I had a problem with the production company, if we had an issue, then it's our issue to work out. 00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:13.039 But that wasn't the problem. 00:52:13.199 --> 00:52:18.719 The problem was they started having people work at home in 2020 during COVID. 00:52:19.199 --> 00:52:21.760 Mistakes started to be in started to be

made. 00:52:21.920 --> 00:52:23.599 Yeah, so we lost a lot. 00:52:23.760 --> 00:52:28.480 So they basically told me those five years, done, lost. 00:52:28.639 --> 00:52:29.760 Well, where's the money then? 00:52:29.920 --> 00:52:31.119 Because there was money made. 00:52:31.280 --> 00:52:32.480 So what happened to it? 00:52:32.639 --> 00:52:35.920 So back to your question, that's one of the things you have to know. 00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:42.159 You have to do your own homework, you have to realize nobody's your friend, it's just you. 00:52:42.800 --> 00:52:44.079 And they don't care, nobody cares. 00:52:44.320 --> 00:52:48.960 Yeah, that yeah, you sound seems like they ought to help be a little more helpful than they are. 00:52:49.519 --> 00:52:56.400 You would think, but yeah, it's it's it's business and is their cutthroat, it's cutthroat business. 00:52:56.639 --> 00:52:58.239 It's not always fun. 00:53:00.320 --> 00:53:01.679 No, it's not fun. 00:53:01.840 --> 00:53:04.480 Uh, you've created the Inside Notes podcast. 00:53:04.559 --> 00:53:09.760 What made you want to start your own podcast, and what do you want people to take away from it? 00:53:10.320 --> 00:53:16.480 That was created because um, and that that was basically outside of the sync licensing thing. 00:53:16.559 --> 00:53:20.559 That's back to the to the church and live musician thing. 00:53:20.719 --> 00:53:28.079 Um, and it was just because, you know, musicians, we always have conversations behind the scenes about the things that we go through. 00:53:28.400 --> 00:53:29.519 They're good conversations too. 00:53:29.599 --> 00:53:30.559 I'm gonna hang out with them. 00:53:31.039 --> 00:53:33.920 There's some good conversations, but we have a lot of meat there. 00:53:34.159 --> 00:53:35.840 We always keep them so quiet, right? 00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:41.840 So I thought, you know what, let me just do it, let me have a podcast and talk about this stuff openly, right? 00:53:42.159 --> 00:53:43.440 And and honestly. 00:53:43.599 --> 00:53:45.360 And that's that's where it came from. 00:53:45.519 --> 00:53:47.039 That was the idea. 00:53:48.320 --> 00:53:55.599 So your podcast called Inside Notes is based on insider information, you know, with the stories that you share with your musicians. 00:53:55.840 --> 00:54:04.880 What is one inside note that you can share with us today that most people outside of the music industry industry probably wouldn't even know or understand? 00:54:07.360 --> 00:54:11.119 Okay, specifically with church situations. 00:54:11.599 --> 00:54:13.599 Oh, not just church, but just live music. 00:54:13.679 --> 00:54:14.880 So not sync license. 00:54:15.039 --> 00:54:16.800 This is for live musicians. 00:54:17.119 --> 00:54:18.480 Live musicians, yeah. 00:54:18.639 --> 00:54:22.639 You know, things, things like money, that's always an issue. 00:54:22.960 --> 00:54:25.280 We always talk about that stuff behind the scenes. 00:54:25.360 --> 00:54:32.320 There's always,

you know, issues where we feel like we're not being treated fairly, you know, those kinds of things. 00:54:33.280 --> 00:54:34.800 That's always an issue. 00:54:34.880 --> 00:54:40.000 In fact, a question I've always had is um like being a live musician. 00:54:40.320 --> 00:54:41.199 I had this question. 00:54:41.280 --> 00:54:55.199 I said, well, 20 years ago, for or 30 years ago, which is when I basically started, you know, being a full-time musician, a McDonald's employee 30 years ago, what did they make back then, 30 years ago? 00:54:55.360 --> 00:54:57.519 What was minimum wage back then, right? 00:54:57.920 --> 00:55:00.480 Whatever they got paid things an hour or something. 00:55:00.800 --> 00:55:04.159 Offer a McDonald's employee that number today. 00:55:04.400 --> 00:55:05.519 It wouldn't happen, right? 00:55:05.679 --> 00:55:08.800 It's because the price of living has gone up, right? 00:55:09.039 --> 00:55:14.880 But why don't people admit that life or or the cost of living has gone up for musicians too? 00:55:14.960 --> 00:55:19.760 We're still offered the same range of the same structure, yeah. 00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:22.639 And that's that's out of church and in church. 00:55:22.800 --> 00:55:24.880 Church is it's across the board. 00:55:25.119 --> 00:55:29.280 We're still stuck in this little box of$200-ish. 00:55:29.920 --> 00:55:30.400 Ish. 00:55:30.639 --> 00:55:31.440 But why? 00:55:31.679 --> 00:55:32.079 Why? 00:55:32.159 --> 00:55:33.280 This is not 30 years ago. 00:55:33.360 --> 00:55:38.079 Why am I offered the same money today that I was offered 30 years ago? 00:55:38.320 --> 00:55:38.880 Yeah. 00:55:39.199 --> 00:55:39.840 Why? 00:55:40.239 --> 00:55:42.480 Nobody can answer that question. 00:55:43.599 --> 00:55:44.239 Wow. 00:55:44.800 --> 00:55:54.559 Well, I I I maybe I shouldn't say anything, but I think churches, they just they don't really, they're not, they don't keep up with the times. 00:55:54.719 --> 00:55:56.719 I don't think they realize what they're doing. 00:55:56.800 --> 00:56:00.159 They just think, oh, I'm being so generous, you know, giving you this. 00:56:00.320 --> 00:56:03.840 I mean, I you know, the fact that you're getting anything, you're we're being generous. 00:56:04.000 --> 00:56:08.159 And they don't take into consideration all the, you know, all that's involved. 00:56:08.559 --> 00:56:17.760 I think they rely on young people who haven't experienced a lot and they burn them out. 00:56:18.000 --> 00:56:28.880 Where when you get seasoned people who's been around this corner a few times and been promised the moon and stars, and then that person gets fired, and then you know, it's a roller coaster effect. 00:56:28.960 --> 00:56:34.000 You you you make nothing, and then you move up, and then somebody comes along, then you make nothing, and then you move up. 00:56:34.159 --> 00:56:39.039 And it's like at certain point of time, you get tired of it, you get burnt out, yeah. 00:56:39.039 --> 00:56:44.559

You feel like you're not appreciated, you feel like the major people on top don't even realize what's going on. 00:56:44.639 --> 00:56:48.559 And if they do, they're not doing anything, so they probably don't even care. 00:56:49.039 --> 00:57:02.880 And at the end of the day, you know, the the budget for the the property expenses needs to go higher, the budget for the for the senior, you know, person in charge needs to go higher, the the guest speaker, you know, you gotta pay them. 00:57:03.039 --> 00:57:15.760 Everybody makes more and more and more, and it's just one of those things where I think like Rob and Reg mentioned that on a previous podcast, somebody's not squeaking the wheel loud enough in that department. 00:57:16.000 --> 00:57:35.599 Because if in general, if church had a really hard time every single Sunday finding a guitar guy and a keyboard guy and a drum guy, and there was, you know, there was nobody there doing it, you know, that would speak a little bit louder than, oh, well, at least I get my face seen on on uh their website today. 00:57:35.760 --> 00:57:40.719 And you know, maybe I might, you know, get invited to a gig afterwards because you know I said yes. 00:57:40.800 --> 00:57:46.320 And you know, people they rely on those pipe dreams that sometimes don't always, you know, turn out. 00:57:46.559 --> 00:57:48.239 Right, right, right. 00:57:49.920 --> 00:57:51.840 You aren't going any deeper on that. 00:57:54.800 --> 00:57:56.800 No, no, well, it was one thing you said. 00:57:56.880 --> 00:58:00.159 This may be off off topic, but um That's fine. 00:58:00.400 --> 00:58:09.360 Because you mentioned like uh if if they need when churches may need a guitar player, they may need a keyboard player here and there. 00:58:09.599 --> 00:58:12.320 You know, I've I've had this is like I said, this is off topic though, right? 00:58:12.400 --> 00:58:24.320 But I've always had issues with the fact that that people think, and this may be only in church I've seen this happen where they think where you can just plug in, you know, a musician here and there. 00:58:24.400 --> 00:58:25.440 Oh, we need a guitar player. 00:58:25.519 --> 00:58:26.639 Come on, come play with us today. 00:58:26.719 --> 00:58:27.679 This is in church. 00:58:27.840 --> 00:58:30.480 I don't, I don't think, I don't think that works. 00:58:30.800 --> 00:58:36.800 No, I don't think the whole system of of um, well, who's on schedule this week to play? 00:58:36.880 --> 00:58:46.159 Oh, we got this guitar this week, we got that this guitar player next week, and then we and just mixing it, mixing and matching all these musicians, I think it doesn't work. 00:58:46.320 --> 00:58:54.400 Because like if if the example is if you have a basketball team, you have five players in the basketball team, right? 00:58:54.559 --> 00:58:56.159 They take two separate teams. 00:58:56.320 --> 00:59:01.599 One team practices together, they have been playing together for five years, they know each

other, right? 00:59:01.679 --> 00:59:02.559 Then you have this other team. 00:59:02.719 --> 00:59:04.000 They're a team, they're a team. 00:59:04.159 --> 00:59:04.960 They're a team, yeah. 00:59:05.119 --> 00:59:09.760 But you have this other team where they kind of you plug in different players here and there. 00:59:09.840 --> 00:59:11.519 There's a different team every week. 00:59:11.679 --> 00:59:15.679 The team that's been a team forever, they're gonna win because they know each other, right? 00:59:15.760 --> 00:59:16.559 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:59:16.719 --> 00:59:27.679 So this whole system is that's been new for me, also being in Phoenix is or being in Arizona, is I've seen that a lot to where they just plug and play all these musicians. 00:59:27.920 --> 00:59:35.840 And like sometimes I'm playing with people, I'm thinking, like, I don't, I don't know you, but but the churches may they don't know that that's an issue. 00:59:36.000 --> 00:59:43.119 Like when we're playing together, I have to know as if I'm a keyboard player and you're a bass player, for example. 00:59:43.360 --> 00:59:44.400 You gotta vibe in jail. 00:59:44.559 --> 00:59:45.199 You gotta know. 00:59:45.280 --> 00:59:50.639 You have to know where I'm I'm going because you have to play the bass that's gonna support the cores that I'm playing. 00:59:50.719 --> 00:59:52.239 You know, it has to, we have to go together. 00:59:52.320 --> 00:59:55.039 If you're a basketball team, it went a fast break. 00:59:55.199 --> 00:59:59.519 If I if I throw a no-look pass to you, you have to be expected because you know me. 00:59:59.679 --> 01:00:03.199 But if you don't know me, right, I'm gonna throw it's gonna hit you in the face, right? 01:00:03.760 --> 01:00:09.840 And and people don't think that way for you almost have to be a mind reader, know what's what's gonna happen next. 01:00:10.000 --> 01:00:10.400 Yes. 01:00:10.559 --> 01:00:16.719 Some of those good musicians, they have eye contact on stage beyond like some of their eye contact. 01:00:16.880 --> 01:00:22.719 And and I've noticed even being a stage manager of like, you know, maybe trying to put this person here and this person there. 01:00:22.800 --> 01:00:26.320 That's not gonna work because now this person needs to turn around to get eye contact. 01:00:26.400 --> 01:00:36.079 And so, you know, the way that they can't, you know, good musicians, they can, you know, read each other and you know, start with no words, they just know where they're gonna go next. 01:00:36.400 --> 01:00:36.960 Yeah, they do. 01:00:37.440 --> 01:00:52.320 Yeah, that's you know, that's the equivalent of you know having people that know what they're doing or having a you know, a Michelin star restaurant and your your lead chef walked out, and now you're trying to hire somebody from McDonald's to get you through and you're wondering why things aren't going what right. 01:00:52.480 --> 01:00:58.320 It's like there's nothing wrong with the guy at McDonald's, it's just it's not his league, and you know, it's not that caliber, it's different. 01:00:58.559 --> 01:01:02.880 But now I'll I'll I can say something else that'll probably kill my whole argument, though. 01:01:03.039 --> 01:01:04.239 My own argument, right? 01:01:04.480 --> 01:01:17.519 So if you if you have the system to where everything is planned, you have the whole script, like and you have planning center, which tells everybody exactly what they're gonna play and exactly what's expected. 01:01:17.840 --> 01:01:19.760 Do you have to know the other musicians? 01:01:19.840 --> 01:01:21.599 Because we all have the script up front. 01:01:22.320 --> 01:01:29.519 Unless you go to a spontaneous situation, that's when you have to know each other, which is the next question. 01:01:29.599 --> 01:01:35.119 I probably shouldn't be the one asking the questions, but I'm just this is just the kind of things that we talk about on inside notes, right? 01:01:35.360 --> 01:01:41.519 So if you have a spontaneous situation, you have you guys have to know each other, right? 01:01:41.679 --> 01:01:48.079 But if you don't have a spontaneous situation that you can get by, because Ableton is really the leader. 01:01:48.320 --> 01:01:48.559 Exactly. 01:01:48.639 --> 01:02:14.880 And that saves a lot of musicians because I've seen where so I've seen where good musicians get on stage and in between rehearsal time, they're vibing together, they're they're creating tunes and they're doing stuff, and then you look around at the other musicians and they're on their phones with their heads down and they don't know where to fit in because it's not a tune they've played before, and they're not used to, you know, going outside the box. 01:02:15.119 --> 01:02:25.039 And you really read the true musicians during those moments because while that guy has his head in his phone, he's saying so many things about I'm not that talented to play with you guys right now. 01:02:25.280 --> 01:02:25.920 Yeah. 01:02:26.239 --> 01:02:34.639 But then that same guy is gonna be able to, you know, somehow be some sort of director at some sort of capacity and tell you that you're playing in the wrong key. 01:02:35.280 --> 01:02:36.480 Right, right. 01:02:37.280 --> 01:02:39.119 I've seen it, yeah, yeah. 01:02:39.360 --> 01:02:41.360 And I'm like, this don't make no dang sense. 01:02:41.519 --> 01:02:49.199 So, okay, so so the the question I've I've asked the last few years is since I've been with both types of churches, right? 01:02:49.360 --> 01:02:53.760 The question is, is there a right way or a wrong way in the church? 01:02:53.920 --> 01:03:00.800 Is the spontaneous way, is that necessarily the right way, or is the planned way, which like who's right? 01:03:00.880 --> 01:03:01.760 Is anybody right? 01:03:01.920 --> 01:03:03.199 I think you need both. 01:03:03.440 --> 01:03:10.159 I think the spontaneous and being led by God moments coming from the authentic smaller churches, I

think that's good. 01:03:10.320 --> 01:03:14.239 But also the organization coming from the larger churches is also really good. 01:03:14.400 --> 01:03:25.360 So we need to somehow implement the organization in the smaller churches and also allow the freedom in the larger churches and learn from each other, but I don't feel like we're doing that. 01:03:25.599 --> 01:03:32.960 We're just like, we do it better this way, we do it better this way, and nobody's really like, you know, why can't we do it both? 01:03:33.119 --> 01:03:35.519 You know, yeah, why why can't we have both? 01:03:35.679 --> 01:03:38.239 Yeah, we've been we've been doing it this way so long. 01:03:38.480 --> 01:03:40.639 Let's do something different and try it out. 01:03:40.880 --> 01:03:54.159 Now, if you're a musician from a more spontaneous background, and then you're thrown into the other, the the structured situation, you can make it pretty good, right? 01:03:54.239 --> 01:03:56.159 Because you're used to doing things on the fly. 01:03:56.239 --> 01:04:00.159 So you put them in a in a uh structured situation, they can get by. 01:04:00.239 --> 01:04:03.599 I mean, because I mean it's a little bit of a struggle because they have to stick to a strip. 01:04:03.679 --> 01:04:10.079 I mean, uh stick to a script, but they can do it because they've they're used to much uh worse, right? 01:04:10.239 --> 01:04:10.400 Yeah. 01:04:10.559 --> 01:04:16.880 But if you take the structured musician and put them in the spontaneous situation, what happens? 01:04:17.360 --> 01:04:25.599 I remember there was a situation at a church that we worked at together before where I was the new guy on the spot, right? 01:04:25.679 --> 01:04:30.559 So, you know, I didn't I didn't know, I didn't know that Ableton was running everything, right? 01:04:30.719 --> 01:04:31.519 Oh, this story. 01:04:31.679 --> 01:04:33.039 Yeah, that's right. 01:04:33.760 --> 01:04:37.199 That was only, I think, my second Sunday there, I think. 01:04:37.280 --> 01:04:39.360 Like it was really early on, right? 01:04:39.519 --> 01:04:46.480 So where this the stage was so wide that we we didn't have that eye contact you talked about because it was it was too far away, right? 01:04:46.559 --> 01:04:46.800 Yeah. 01:04:46.960 --> 01:04:50.719 So we were when we did the planning before the service, right? 01:04:50.800 --> 01:04:55.679 They would sit around and they would talk about, okay, you know, they would have the paper, okay, um four or five. 01:04:56.000 --> 01:05:06.559 We'll do the first song, and then then Rob, then you stop Ableton, and then you know, we'll do some announcements, then you start the second song, and we'll do that song, then we stop again, and it was this back and forth. 01:05:06.639 --> 01:05:09.599 And I was thinking the whole time, I don't remember none of this stuff. 01:05:09.760 --> 01:05:11.760 Because I'm just used to, I'm we're just gonna go for it. 01:05:11.920 --> 01:05:13.360 I don't really know what

you guys just say. 01:05:13.440 --> 01:05:19.840 I'm just gonna have to rely on Jake to be in my ears until you used to get me out of some spots sometimes when you say that. 01:05:20.400 --> 01:05:20.800 I just keep going. 01:05:20.960 --> 01:05:22.719 I go, okay, you saved me a lot. 01:05:22.800 --> 01:05:26.239 But but this particular time, I didn't really remember. 01:05:26.400 --> 01:05:32.719 So the bass player, he was so far away, and we got to the end of the first song, and I was thinking, am I supposed to stop? 01:05:32.880 --> 01:05:34.159 Am I supposed to stop the tracks? 01:05:34.239 --> 01:05:37.360 Or because I didn't know that Ableton was running the lights. 01:05:37.599 --> 01:05:38.079 It was Ramon. 01:05:38.880 --> 01:05:39.440 I didn't know that. 01:05:39.519 --> 01:05:40.880 I I thought it was just the tracks. 01:05:40.960 --> 01:05:41.360 I didn't know. 01:05:41.599 --> 01:05:42.880 It was Ramon that was telling you though. 01:05:43.199 --> 01:05:44.079 I wasn't gonna say his name. 01:05:44.159 --> 01:05:44.559 You said it. 01:05:44.960 --> 01:05:45.920 I know Ramon though. 01:05:46.000 --> 01:05:48.239 Me and Ramon Ramon Ramon loves me. 01:05:48.320 --> 01:05:49.519 I yeah, he did, yeah. 01:05:49.599 --> 01:05:56.000 Ramon, he was, but he was too far away, so he kind of motioned to me, you know, like he went like, right? 01:05:56.239 --> 01:05:58.559 And I thought I had to think, what does that mean? 01:05:58.639 --> 01:06:01.440 Does that mean stop the Tracks or don't stop the tracks. 01:06:02.400 --> 01:06:06.079 I think he was saying keeping don't remember, don't stop the tracks. 01:06:06.159 --> 01:06:08.320 I'm thinking, oh, he must he said stop the tracks. 01:06:08.480 --> 01:06:09.039 He was listening. 01:06:09.199 --> 01:06:10.320 I hit the space bar. 01:06:10.400 --> 01:06:10.719 Boom. 01:06:10.880 --> 01:06:15.599 I hit the space bar, the lights stopped, the words on the screen stopped. 01:06:15.679 --> 01:06:19.280 Everything just came to a I didn't know, I had no idea, right? 01:06:19.360 --> 01:06:21.519 I just knew that I was hitting that space bar. 01:06:21.679 --> 01:06:27.440 But when I did that, the worship pastor, he goes into like a spot, because he thought that everything crashed. 01:06:27.519 --> 01:06:29.920 So he goes into a spontaneous start singing thing. 01:06:30.400 --> 01:06:36.960 And everybody else, except for maybe Ramon, but the other musicians, they had this look like, like, oh my God, what do we do now? 01:06:37.039 --> 01:06:37.199 Right? 01:06:37.280 --> 01:06:40.400 And me and Ramon were like, hey, because you know, what's his name was singing? 01:06:40.480 --> 01:06:42.320 I'm like, okay, yeah, I'm used to this. 01:06:42.480 --> 01:06:43.519 Let's just go on the fly. 01:06:44.079 --> 01:06:44.800 I'm good, right? 01:06:45.039 --> 01:06:46.719 It's not that type of church. 01:06:48.159 --> 01:06:48.960 It was good. 01:06:49.039 --> 01:06:50.320 You did great. 01:06:51.440 --> 01:06:52.800

Wrong restaurant. 01:06:53.119 --> 01:06:56.880 But the look on their eyes was like, oh my god, what are we gonna do without Ableton? 01:06:56.960 --> 01:06:57.519 What do we do? 01:06:57.599 --> 01:06:59.679 And I'm thinking, hey, I don't need Ableton. 01:06:59.840 --> 01:07:00.400 I could just play. 01:07:00.800 --> 01:07:03.840 But they, yeah, they weren't uh, it didn't work out that way, right? 01:07:04.480 --> 01:07:05.360 Everything prepared. 01:07:05.599 --> 01:07:07.519 So it was a big, it was a big crash. 01:07:07.599 --> 01:07:10.559 It was a big, big uh train wreck. 01:07:11.360 --> 01:07:12.320 I had no idea. 01:07:12.559 --> 01:07:13.519 You you got called back. 01:07:13.679 --> 01:07:15.039 It wasn't your last Sunday. 01:07:15.280 --> 01:07:16.000 No, it wasn't. 01:07:16.079 --> 01:07:19.280 Yeah, that was that was I think that was my second Sunday. 01:07:19.440 --> 01:07:19.679 I think. 01:07:20.159 --> 01:07:20.320 Yeah. 01:07:20.880 --> 01:07:21.679 There was some grace. 01:07:21.760 --> 01:07:21.920 Yes. 01:07:22.159 --> 01:07:23.440 There was a meeting, but there was some grace. 01:07:23.760 --> 01:07:29.679 Well, because I admit it, because when we all got called into the office, like kids getting called to the principal's office, we got caught in. 01:07:30.159 --> 01:07:31.760 So he says, Well, what happened? 01:07:31.840 --> 01:07:33.280 Did Ableton crash? 01:07:33.440 --> 01:07:34.559 And I I thought about it. 01:07:34.639 --> 01:07:39.280 I said, I could say, I could just lie and say, Oh yeah, Ableton crashed. 01:07:39.360 --> 01:07:40.159 You know, I don't know what happened. 01:07:40.559 --> 01:07:42.239 I thought, nah, I bet just tell the truth. 01:07:42.320 --> 01:07:44.079 And I said, No, it didn't crash. 01:07:44.159 --> 01:07:53.360 I kind of got confused and I hit the space bar and it's all it's that's why I was offered grace, I guess. 01:07:53.440 --> 01:07:55.440 Because I admitted it, you know, it was a mistake. 01:07:55.519 --> 01:07:56.079 I didn't know. 01:07:57.519 --> 01:08:02.960 So I heard that you uh you teach classes for people who's interested in getting started in sync licensing. 01:08:03.280 --> 01:08:05.039 You want to tell us a little bit more about that? 01:08:05.199 --> 01:08:08.559 Plug it, and you know, maybe you might have some future students. 01:08:09.519 --> 01:08:13.519 It's not necessarily um it started out that way. 01:08:13.679 --> 01:08:17.039 It's it did start out as a as a mentor type thing. 01:08:17.439 --> 01:08:30.560 Now it's a it's a uh course that I have that I sell on on the website, and it it you know tells people how to get started and it and you know, some guidelines on how to put the tracks and stuff together. 01:08:30.800 --> 01:08:35.359 Uh yeah, and it's on the website, track shackstudios.com. 01:08:36.079 --> 01:08:38.159 Track Shack Track Uh T-R-A-K. 01:08:38.479 --> 01:08:40.319 Yeah, I found that out when I was writing this out. 01:08:40.560 --> 01:08:42.960 I was like, wait a minute, that don't even look right. 01:08:44.560 --> 01:08:46.079 My dyslexia was playing with me. 01:08:46.159 --> 01:08:47.840 I was like, wait a minute. 01:08:48.239 --> 01:08:59.039 If uh you could go back and talk to the young Rob Miller, you know, a few years ago, the kid who picked up that baritone horn and eventually became the professor, what would you tell him? 01:08:59.199 --> 01:09:01.199 Do you have some words of uh wisdom? 01:09:01.439 --> 01:09:02.880 I gotta hear this. 01:09:06.159 --> 01:09:12.640 I would tell him, well, the the kid that had the baritone, I would tell him, go ahead and take music seriously now. 01:09:12.960 --> 01:09:17.920 Don't waste time because I wasted a lot of years not being serious, right? 01:09:18.079 --> 01:09:21.920 So I would tell him to take it seriously, get get started now. 01:09:22.560 --> 01:09:23.439 Take it seriously. 01:09:23.680 --> 01:09:24.079 And that's it. 01:09:24.159 --> 01:09:25.840 It's not it's not he really that deep. 01:09:26.000 --> 01:09:27.520 It's just it's it's that simple. 01:09:27.680 --> 01:09:39.439 I was not serious about it, you know, when I was, you know, playing the baritone and yeah, I was even when I was playing drums and I went to MI, I'm at MI, I'm at, you know, musicians institutes. 01:09:39.600 --> 01:09:46.000 I'm around all these you know famous people would come through and they would, you know, do the teaching, they were the professors and stuff. 01:09:46.159 --> 01:09:50.399 And I was just like, you know, I'm not really taking this that serious, right? 01:09:50.479 --> 01:09:51.600 But for whatever reason. 01:09:51.680 --> 01:09:54.159 So I would tell them, take it seriously. 01:09:54.640 --> 01:09:56.000 This can be a real thing. 01:09:56.239 --> 01:10:03.920 But remember, I was um I came from, you know, my parents whose background was music is not you know real. 01:10:04.720 --> 01:10:06.560 Making a living is is not a real thing. 01:10:06.640 --> 01:10:07.920 So that's in the back of my mind. 01:10:08.000 --> 01:10:09.760 I would tell them, forget that. 01:10:10.479 --> 01:10:11.119 Take it seriously. 01:10:11.359 --> 01:10:13.920 Your parents didn't think that you could make a living off of music. 01:10:14.880 --> 01:10:27.840 Not necessarily that I that I couldn't, just that it was, you know, they didn't come from that generation to where, you know, but I was always thinking, you know, when I watch TV and movies, somebody's making that music. 01:10:28.000 --> 01:10:29.600 Somebody has to make that music, right? 01:10:29.680 --> 01:10:34.000 Because that's all I ever, you know, I can I can watch a whole show and hear nothing but music. 01:10:34.079 --> 01:10:35.279 I don't hear the dialogue. 01:10:35.439 --> 01:10:37.840 I can just just all I focus on is the music. 01:10:38.079 --> 01:10:39.840 Somebody had to be making that music. 01:10:40.000 --> 01:10:41.279 Why can't it be me? 01:10:41.359 --> 01:10:42.479 Why can't I be one of them?

01:10:42.880 --> 01:10:43.199 Wow. 01:10:43.359 --> 01:10:43.520 Right. 01:10:43.760 --> 01:10:45.920 But I didn't think that when I was young, though. 01:10:46.239 --> 01:10:47.600 It took a long time. 01:10:48.880 --> 01:10:49.520 Yeah. 01:10:50.000 --> 01:10:54.640 Well, I I look at shows differently than you do because I come from a different perspective. 01:10:54.720 --> 01:11:06.479 But when I watch TV shows and movies, I'm looking at the camera work, I'm looking at the lighting, I'm listening to the sound, uh, you know, and it's I I I I I've ruined it for my wife. 01:11:06.640 --> 01:11:10.960 I say, okay, there they're in a they're in a studio, they're not really outside. 01:11:11.119 --> 01:11:12.720 And this is day for night. 01:11:12.800 --> 01:11:17.439 And you know, I've I've ruined it for her, but she she's now time, she gets to the place. 01:11:17.600 --> 01:11:19.119 Oh, that's a day for night scene. 01:11:19.199 --> 01:11:22.560 That's uh, and so you know, I've kind of moved her along a little bit. 01:11:22.640 --> 01:11:32.079 Yeah, but I I'm I'm like you, I I I pick out different things to watch and listen for because that's that's what I've done, you know, production. 01:11:32.159 --> 01:11:33.680 So yeah, yeah. 01:11:34.000 --> 01:11:40.880 So are you well for me with music, because you know, I've done nothing but music, and that's what I do every day. 01:11:41.039 --> 01:11:43.760 I don't listen to music in my spare time. 01:11:43.920 --> 01:11:49.039 So do like, do do are you able to turn it off after you know you're done working or whatever? 01:11:49.199 --> 01:11:51.760 I'm able to turn, I have to turn the music off. 01:11:51.920 --> 01:11:54.239 I don't listen to music in the car. 01:11:54.880 --> 01:11:57.600 Most people would think it's all music for me, but it's not. 01:11:57.680 --> 01:11:58.319 I don't listen to music music. 01:11:58.399 --> 01:11:59.600 You gotta have some quiet time. 01:12:00.079 --> 01:12:00.720 All the time. 01:12:00.800 --> 01:12:02.640 Yeah, it's talk radio for me. 01:12:02.720 --> 01:12:05.760 I don't want to hear music because it's all day for me. 01:12:05.840 --> 01:12:12.239 And if there is music playing, like if there was music playing in the background right now, I would hear that as much as I hear you talking. 01:12:12.399 --> 01:12:15.760 My my my mind, I would automatically focus on the music. 01:12:15.920 --> 01:12:16.960 I can't listen to it. 01:12:17.199 --> 01:12:22.720 You know, in fact, last night I was uh, you know, I had my phone, I had my ear buzzing to go to sleep with, right? 01:12:22.880 --> 01:12:25.760 It's usually, you know, some podcast or something. 01:12:26.000 --> 01:12:30.800 Um, so last night I tried to put on, it was called something called sleep music or whatever, right? 01:12:30.960 --> 01:12:31.119 What? 01:12:31.279 --> 01:12:32.399 So I'm gonna try this, right? 01:12:32.479 --> 01:12:35.600 So I put it on and I could it it couldn't work. 01:12:35.680 --> 01:12:41.119 I'm thinking, I'm I'm trying to go to sleep, but I'm thinking, that sounds like that sounds like B flat. 01:12:41.520 --> 01:12:42.960 It could have gone, you know what I mean? 01:12:43.119 --> 01:12:44.560 It's just driving me crazy. 01:12:44.640 --> 01:12:45.840 So I had to I had to turn it on. 01:12:46.000 --> 01:12:48.079 So it's like work, listening to music sounds like work. 01:12:48.239 --> 01:12:55.439 Yeah, so so if you're on the visual side of it, are you able to to turn it off or does that matter for you? 01:12:55.680 --> 01:12:58.319 Um no, I don't turn it off. 01:12:58.479 --> 01:13:06.560 I I walk into a um uh a building and I'm I'm visually looking at okay, looking at all the architecture, I'm looking at the lighting. 01:13:06.720 --> 01:13:07.439 How did they do this? 01:13:07.600 --> 01:13:08.399 How did they do that? 01:13:08.560 --> 01:13:09.359 How did they decorate? 01:13:09.680 --> 01:13:11.439 I mean, I it it's just constant. 01:13:11.520 --> 01:13:12.880 I don't shut it off. 01:13:13.199 --> 01:13:15.439 I do that at Disneyland when I'm on a ride. 01:13:15.840 --> 01:13:16.880 Oh heavens, yeah. 01:13:17.760 --> 01:13:23.199 Yes, yeah, the production guy becomes how they do that. 01:13:23.439 --> 01:13:30.800 That's why I can't, uh it's hard for me to go to a uh attend a church service because my mind isn't on what it's supposed to be on. 01:13:30.960 --> 01:13:34.720 I I'm looking and listening for everything else that I shouldn't be listening. 01:13:35.039 --> 01:13:36.079 Yeah, you know, yeah. 01:13:36.159 --> 01:13:37.600 So I I'm yeah. 01:13:38.479 --> 01:13:42.000 So um you kind of mentioned it with working with somebody else. 01:13:42.079 --> 01:13:47.439 Um, Ray asked you about like, do you just focus on sync music or do you have personal music? 01:13:47.600 --> 01:13:55.920 Um, do you actually have personal music that you work on that's you know, Rob's albums or Rob's songs or anything like that? 01:13:56.079 --> 01:13:59.760 Or you just no, I've I've never been able been able to do that. 01:14:00.159 --> 01:14:03.119 Okay, people would ask me, it's been a while. 01:14:03.199 --> 01:14:07.039 People would ask me, you should you should do an album, you should do a a Christmas album. 01:14:07.199 --> 01:14:08.000 I I tried it with it. 01:14:08.239 --> 01:14:09.119 Instrumentals or something. 01:14:09.279 --> 01:14:12.960 I just can't no I don't know. 01:14:13.039 --> 01:14:14.000 I I don't know why. 01:14:14.159 --> 01:14:19.840 I I'm more of a companyist type where I have to be playing for something. 01:14:20.000 --> 01:14:25.439 So like an instrumental album that just it just never it never interests me. 01:14:25.680 --> 01:14:29.279 You need more purpose, you need more purpose outside of myself, yeah. 01:14:29.520 --> 01:14:30.640 Okay, yeah. 01:14:32.800 --> 01:14:43.520 After everything you accomplished, what's still on your musical bucket list that you know is out there that you haven't done yet,

but you absolutely still want to do movies, movie scores. 01:14:43.840 --> 01:14:45.600 Oh, that would be so cool. 01:14:46.000 --> 01:14:49.199 Cool, cool, cool Star Wars 15 or something, you know. 01:14:49.439 --> 01:14:51.760 Like soundtracks or what do you what do you mean? 01:14:51.840 --> 01:14:52.720 Like explain. 01:14:53.680 --> 01:15:00.159 Yeah, not like you know, the the you know, most movies have an an album to accompany the movie with a song. 01:15:00.319 --> 01:15:02.319 Not that, I mean like the actual score. 01:15:02.560 --> 01:15:04.800 Like I'm looking at what you have on that screen right there. 01:15:04.880 --> 01:15:06.800 I can score something to that. 01:15:06.880 --> 01:15:10.560 In fact, I have a friend right now, he's doing a um, he's doing an album. 01:15:10.640 --> 01:15:14.159 It's uh it's a um RB album, right? 01:15:14.319 --> 01:15:18.159 But the the whole album is one love story, basically, right? 01:15:18.960 --> 01:15:19.840 It's a continuous story. 01:15:19.920 --> 01:15:20.239 That's cool. 01:15:20.560 --> 01:15:25.600 So together with that, he's gonna have animated videos for each song, right? 01:15:26.399 --> 01:15:30.640 So there's a fight, there's a fight scene or something in between a couple of the songs. 01:15:30.720 --> 01:15:35.520 So he asked, just asked me a few weeks ago, would you want to do the score for the fight scenes? 01:15:36.000 --> 01:15:36.800 Yes, I would. 01:15:36.880 --> 01:15:37.600 Yeah, definitely. 01:15:37.840 --> 01:15:38.239 That's cool. 01:15:38.399 --> 01:15:39.520 So yeah, I'm I'm looking forward. 01:15:39.840 --> 01:15:40.640 You have to send that to me. 01:15:40.720 --> 01:15:41.600 I'll check that out for sure. 01:15:41.840 --> 01:15:42.800 I will, I will, I will. 01:15:42.880 --> 01:15:48.000 So yeah, that's the outside of just tracks and you know, R B and pop stuff, yeah. 01:15:48.079 --> 01:15:54.960 I want to do like actual scoring for you know, movie to our sound for picture. 01:15:55.520 --> 01:15:56.960 Rather, yeah, yeah. 01:15:57.199 --> 01:15:58.479 That's really cool. 01:16:06.479 --> 01:16:09.600 All right, uh, we love to ask everybody the signature question. 01:16:09.760 --> 01:16:16.000 It's not even music related, so I'm sure you'll you're like this getting out, getting out of music, not having to think about it. 01:16:16.239 --> 01:16:21.760 Uh if you got one of the first questions with God, what do you what do you think you would ask him? 01:16:22.640 --> 01:16:27.359 Anything deep, funny, serious, God sitting right there. 01:16:28.960 --> 01:16:30.479 I I thought about this question. 01:16:30.960 --> 01:16:35.920 I'll answer it quick and we and get out of it because I don't want to get I don't You don't want to sit on it too much? 01:16:36.000 --> 01:16:36.159 Okay. 01:16:36.319 --> 01:16:38.479 No, I don't want to I don't want to tear up or nothing, right? 01:16:38.720 --> 01:16:40.800 So I wanna do this is gonna be quick. 01:16:40.880 --> 01:16:41.439 I

thought about it. 01:16:41.760 --> 01:16:42.479 Should I say it? 01:16:43.279 --> 01:16:46.159 Yeah, I'm just gonna go ahead and just go ahead and see it. 01:16:46.319 --> 01:16:54.000 So so yeah, maybe the question would be I would ask him. 01:16:56.399 --> 01:16:57.600 Wait, hold on. 01:16:58.479 --> 01:16:59.279 I like this. 01:16:59.439 --> 01:17:01.840 I don't think anybody's giving it any thought. 01:17:02.079 --> 01:17:08.880 Yeah, no, nobody's ever, a lot of people's just thrown out like about mosquitoes or MMs. 01:17:09.119 --> 01:17:10.720 Yeah, they don't stop and think about it like this. 01:17:11.199 --> 01:17:13.119 I got I got Reggie one time on the podcast. 01:17:13.279 --> 01:17:15.920 I had Reggie in tears on that last episode. 01:17:16.000 --> 01:17:17.199 I was like, I got him. 01:17:18.560 --> 01:17:19.119 All right. 01:17:19.279 --> 01:17:24.560 So I would probably ask God, does the is is is my dad proud of me? 01:17:25.520 --> 01:17:25.840 Okay. 01:17:26.399 --> 01:17:26.880 Gotcha. 01:17:27.039 --> 01:17:28.079 I understand that. 01:17:29.279 --> 01:17:30.720 Thank you for your answer. 01:17:34.880 --> 01:17:35.520 All right. 01:17:36.239 --> 01:17:40.239 Well sorry we we had to end it like that. 01:17:40.960 --> 01:17:45.920 Yeah, that's why we were answering that, but that's the real answer. 01:17:46.319 --> 01:17:48.800 I I see why you it was hard for you. 01:17:49.119 --> 01:17:49.840 I see why. 01:17:50.800 --> 01:17:52.479 This is your guest spotlight time. 01:17:52.640 --> 01:17:56.000 You can take 30 seconds, you can take two minutes, you can take whatever you like, Mr. 01:17:56.159 --> 01:17:56.319 Rob. 01:17:56.720 --> 01:18:02.000 Plug whatever you want, your business, your family, your links, shout-outs, any words for the wise. 01:18:02.319 --> 01:18:03.600 What you got for us? 01:18:04.239 --> 01:18:05.600 I I I've talked enough. 01:18:05.760 --> 01:18:11.359 But I I I have this this YouTube channel that I started about a month ago and trying to get off the ground. 01:18:11.600 --> 01:18:16.159 It's called It's called Working Dash Musician. 01:18:16.479 --> 01:18:17.039 Really? 01:18:17.279 --> 01:18:17.600 Yeah. 01:18:17.760 --> 01:18:18.560 I just started it. 01:18:18.880 --> 01:18:19.680 I haven't talked about it. 01:18:20.159 --> 01:18:21.039 I haven't heard about this. 01:18:21.199 --> 01:18:23.439 I know you see you did your research, but you didn't get that. 01:18:23.600 --> 01:18:25.119 Yeah, nobody really knows that. 01:18:25.279 --> 01:18:26.560 I just started it. 01:18:28.560 --> 01:18:31.760 It's called Working Dash Musician, right? 01:18:31.840 --> 01:18:43.760 And and it's just a regular YouTube channel where um lately I've I've only started, like I've done a bunch of um a bunch of YouTube shorts where I'm just playing, you know, popular songs or whatever on the panel. 01:18:43.920 --> 01:18:45.840 And that's basically it right now, right? 01:18:45.920 --> 01:18:53.840 I'm gonna get into um more

I think instructional stuff about using Ableton and stuff for sync licensing. 01:18:54.000 --> 01:18:57.119 I'm just really uncomfortable being in front of the camera. 01:18:57.279 --> 01:19:00.079 It's just not comfortable for me being in front of the camera. 01:19:00.239 --> 01:19:01.760 This is kind of hard for me, right? 01:19:02.079 --> 01:19:05.840 So so yeah, that that I'm gonna get that off the ground for sure. 01:19:06.079 --> 01:19:15.199 And I do have, yeah, the the website um track shackstudios.com, T R A K-S-H-A-K Studios.com. 01:19:15.920 --> 01:19:18.560 Um, let's see, what else? 01:19:19.600 --> 01:19:22.479 My I have an IMDB page. 01:19:22.800 --> 01:19:23.439 Really? 01:19:23.920 --> 01:19:24.399 Yeah. 01:19:24.960 --> 01:19:26.159 See, you are famous. 01:19:26.399 --> 01:19:28.880 See, you're over here saying you're not that famous. 01:19:29.119 --> 01:19:33.359 Well, I mean, yeah, it's but it is it's my full name. 01:19:33.600 --> 01:19:35.359 It's Robin Lewis Miller. 01:19:35.760 --> 01:19:45.039 And it's kind of humbling because I didn't know that when you have IMDB Pro, it it show it has a meter that shows you your popularity, right? 01:19:45.359 --> 01:19:45.520 Really? 01:19:45.680 --> 01:19:48.159 Yeah, and it fluctuates, it goes up and down, right? 01:19:48.239 --> 01:19:56.880 So when I first signed up to it, I was at like I was like 6.5 millionth on the list, right? 01:19:56.960 --> 01:20:02.560 That's that's how low I was, and it has a red arrow pointing down, meaning like you're you're on the bottom of the thing, right? 01:20:02.800 --> 01:20:02.880 Right. 01:20:03.039 --> 01:20:05.199 So then it because you have to put your own credits in. 01:20:05.279 --> 01:20:06.479 It doesn't happen automatically. 01:20:06.560 --> 01:20:10.239 You have to put your own, but they have to be legit because they they cross-reference all your stuff. 01:20:10.319 --> 01:20:11.359 It has to be legit, right? 01:20:11.680 --> 01:20:17.199 So I put a bunch of my TV credits in, I shot up to like the top 400,000. 01:20:17.520 --> 01:20:19.520 Wow, yeah, it was crazy, right? 01:20:19.680 --> 01:20:22.560 And then you check back in a week, back to five million. 01:20:22.880 --> 01:20:25.119 It's like up and down, it's crazy. 01:20:25.279 --> 01:20:27.039 So it's it's kind of fun to watch it. 01:20:27.119 --> 01:20:38.560 So yeah, Robin Lewis Miller on IMDB, and it shows some of the credit, maybe like 150 of the credit, because you can't put 16,000 credits, and this is ridiculous. 01:20:38.720 --> 01:20:44.880 In fact, Chat GPT said don't put all that stuff on here, just put some of your main credits on there and keep it simple. 01:20:45.199 --> 01:20:45.439 Yeah. 01:20:45.760 --> 01:20:46.079 Wow. 01:20:46.319 --> 01:20:49.680 So there's that, and we have the Inside Notes podcast. 01:20:50.399 --> 01:20:51.039 The collaboration. 01:20:51.359 --> 01:20:53.359 The collaboration exactly. 01:20:53.760 --> 01:21:07.760 We have uh Jordy Mill TV, which is uh my son's um videography business, uh, where he and his girlfriend they do all the they they've done some big stuff too. 01:21:07.840 --> 01:21:16.000 He's kind of turned out to be like me too, where he doesn't talk about a lot of the things that he's done, but he's done some some stuff recently, some big stuff recently, right? 01:21:16.159 --> 01:21:18.079 Yeah, so Jordy Mill TV. 01:21:18.319 --> 01:21:25.600 I'm gonna have to check out his Instagram page a little bit more because I I I quickly followed it while we were doing this, but I gotta dive deeper on that. 01:21:25.840 --> 01:21:27.680 Maybe he might be a next guest. 01:21:28.880 --> 01:21:29.520 Right. 01:21:29.920 --> 01:21:31.279 All right, so that's that's about it. 01:21:31.680 --> 01:21:33.039 Jordy Mill TV? 01:21:33.359 --> 01:21:34.960 Yeah, sweet. 01:21:35.199 --> 01:21:41.840 And then you can catch out the the video portion of this on the Track Shack uh YouTube page. 01:21:42.399 --> 01:21:43.840 There's a uh Inside Notes. 01:21:44.239 --> 01:21:46.079 Inside Notes channel. 01:21:46.159 --> 01:21:46.319 Yeah. 01:21:46.479 --> 01:21:47.119 My bad. 01:21:47.199 --> 01:21:47.840 Yeah. 01:21:48.800 --> 01:21:50.479 Well, folks, that's the wrap. 01:21:50.640 --> 01:21:54.880 You've just heard the final cut of episode 51, Inside Notes. 01:21:55.119 --> 01:22:04.720 We'd like to extend a huge thank you to Rob Miller of Track Shack Studios and the Inside Notes Podcast for joining us for this special collaboration. 01:22:05.039 --> 01:22:10.159 We truly enjoyed the experience, the conversation, and the opportunity to work together. 01:22:10.399 --> 01:22:13.279 Thanks for being part of Unfit for Radio. 01:22:13.520 --> 01:22:17.920 Unfit for Radio Podcast, independently produced and listener supported. 01:22:18.239 --> 01:22:27.039 If you want to help you be a part of the fun, head over to unfitfor radio.buzzcrop.com and click that donation link. 01:22:28.000 --> 01:22:42.399 If you missed out, don't worry, you can always catch this episode along with all the others by searching for Unfit for Radio Inject on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, and wherever you listen to podcasts. 01:22:42.560 --> 01:22:45.119 And while you're there, drop us a quick review, please. 01:22:45.279 --> 01:22:48.960 It helps more people find the show, and we really appreciate the support. 01:22:49.279 --> 01:22:50.960 Got a suggestion or a guest? 01:22:51.840 --> 01:23:01.439 Email us over here at unfit4 radio show at gmail.com or text us here at the studio 602-767-3390. 01:23:03.920 --> 01:23:06.239 And we may feature it on a future episode. 01:23:07.039 --> 01:23:10.159 Don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Jesus. 01:23:10.720 --> 01:23:12.640 Uh UFR Podcast. 01:23:15.680 --> 01:23:49.279 Episode yes, be the good.