บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ #63 - SEO First: Building Marketing That Lasts

And then I went to what I thought would be 10 levels up to another different agency that had the award-winning stuff and all that. 26 00:02:19.272 --> 00:02:20.673 But I learned again that, 27 00:02:22.382 --> 00:02:31.591 It wasn't as much snake oil, but it was definitely a lot of offshore, low-level fulfillment. 28 00:02:32.392 --> 00:02:35.955 And there was definitely some black hat in there too, some shortcuts. 29 00:02:36.255 --> 00:02:38.117 And I just – once I learned – 30 00:02:39.147 --> 00:02:42.909 about that as I became the director of strategy, I just, I couldn't do it anymore. 31 00:02:43.129 --> 00:02:44.830 I, it just felt icky to me. 32 00:02:45.270 --> 00:02:47.831 So that's when I'm like, I know that there is a better way. 33 00:02:48.552 --> 00:03:06.100 I know that these agencies are trying to operate and maintain a, a certain profitability mark, but I believe that there is a way that we can meet in the middle where maybe the agency doesn't make quite as much net, but it's still provides that ethical long-term white hat solution and, 34 00:03:07.060 --> 00:03:17.829 to business owners that need such a valuable service because frankly, SEO gets a bad rap and it deserves to get a bad rap because there are so many folks out there that, that take advantage of it. 35 00:03:18.189 --> 00:03:28.497 And I, I hate that it has it, but at the same time, I'm glad that we have that bad rap because then we have people and organizations like search room that, that simply just don't operate that way. 36 00:03:28.897 --> 00:03:32.780 And it, it's just not really a competition when you, when you look at them side by side. 37 00:03:33.273 --> 00:03:45.540 Yeah, and I love that you say that, you know, you're really focusing on bringing the ethics into it because, you know, as you and I were just talking a little bit briefly before we hopped on, I mean, SEO is the gift that keeps on giving. 38 00:03:45.680 --> 00:03:52.644 And the low level, it's not that people overseas, you know, can't conduct a high level, you know, you know. 39 00:03:53.124 --> 00:04:04.381 product or service for you, but it's knowing how to choose them and knowing where you're dangerous enough to understand the background of the system that you know that these guys can perform versus not perform. 40 00:04:04.741 --> 00:04:08.347 So it's also the difficulty in choosing that, but it's like you're really focusing on 41 00:04:08.787 --> 00:04:24.744 on that triple bottom line, but really from the internal aspect of your team members, but also for the clients, because it's the idea of, you know, volume isn't what matters, but you are taking less, but you're driving volume, which in the end will turn out to be the exact same. 42 00:04:25.512 --> 00:04:26.492 Yeah, absolutely. 43 00:04:27.993 --> 00:04:31.953 I do believe, to your point, it's not an overseas issue. 44 00:04:32.033 --> 00:04:42.216 It's really a matter of doing it in a transparent manner, doing it with data-backed strategies, and doing so in a testing environment. 45 00:04:42.496 --> 00:04:49.257 Because, let's face it, if anybody out there is calling themselves an SEO expert or a guru, if you will... 46 00:04:51.778 --> 00:04:59.506 then that is a telltale sign that they really may not be an expert because SEO evolves every second of every day. 47 00:04:59.686 --> 00:05:08.855 And I know that's almost hard to comprehend, but every search query that happens in Google informs the algorithms, plural to then alter and change. 48 00:05:08.915 --> 00:05:12.098 And it just is a, it's a constant evolution. 49 00:05:12.299 --> 00:05:13.720 So, uh, 50 00:05:14.140 --> 00:05:19.103 That's one thing to maybe keep a lookout on if you're looking into search engine optimization for sure. 51 00:05:19.163 --> 00:05:20.204 Yeah, absolutely. 52 00:05:20.244 --> 00:05:21.905 It is a massive web. 53 00:05:22.105 --> 00:05:32.511 And as marketers, when you're building out SEO, you do run into the lovely updates that Google does that really don't necessarily help to support our clients. 54 00:05:32.551 --> 00:05:36.453 But it's really this ebb and flow, and it's an ongoing thing. 55 00:05:37.253 --> 00:05:39.336 you know, with SEO, which we'll get into the details of that. 56 00:05:39.737 --> 00:05:44.823 But what I wanted to, you know, just segue into is you've generated hundreds of millions through SEO, right? 57 00:05:44.843 --> 00:05:45.965 I mean, this is amazing. 58 00:05:46.025 --> 00:05:46.806 Congratulations. 59 00:05:46.846 --> 00:05:52.994 But what I really want to understand is what do you think is working for 2025 that wasn't working a few years ago? 60 00:05:53.234 --> 00:05:56.856 And you kind of begun to talk a little bit about it, how it's changing every day. 61 00:05:57.257 --> 00:06:04.842 And if John Smith and Katie and whoever is searching right now, I mean, this is real life stuff that's happening, not just nationwide, but globally. 62 00:06:05.042 --> 00:06:11.166 But yes, we do focus a lot on SEO from a nationwide standpoint and even in your backyard, just on zip code level. 63 00:06:11.206 --> 00:06:15.869 So let's talk a little bit about today and the difference between last year and a couple of years back. 64 00:06:16.680 --> 00:06:17.080 Oh, boy. 65 00:06:17.240 --> 00:06:33.147 Well, the biggest change, the most radical change that we've seen in the last several months, six months or so, is the advent of AIOs, which have really disrupted the search engine results or the SERPs. 66 00:06:33.187 --> 00:06:35.368 Just further clarify on that for the audience. 67 00:06:36.743 --> 00:06:37.504 The AIOs. 68 00:06:37.604 --> 00:06:45.990 AIOs are what you see when you ask Google a question and it will give you an AI answer just right there at the top. 69 00:06:46.090 --> 00:06:47.231 That's an AIO. 70 00:06:47.832 --> 00:06:52.916 And what it basically does is it takes citations from all over the web. 71 00:06:53.096 --> 00:06:57.739 It's the equivalent of,

well, or similar to ChatGPT, but within search. 72 00:06:58.260 --> 00:07:00.321 Bing does it as well using ChatGPT. 73 00:07:01.362 --> 00:07:03.565 Google has its own version, and it's Gemini. 74 00:07:04.446 --> 00:07:09.792 But effectively, it uses the web to inform its artificial intelligence, right? 75 00:07:09.912 --> 00:07:13.476 And that web includes maybe your article, right? 76 00:07:13.817 --> 00:07:18.702 So if it's an informational-based query, and it's really just... 77 00:07:19.403 --> 00:07:23.848 really fast, like, hey, how many gallons are in this, right? 78 00:07:23.868 --> 00:07:24.709 Just something simple. 79 00:07:25.210 --> 00:07:26.912 Then Google will just give you the answer. 80 00:07:26.932 --> 00:07:29.154 There's no reason for you to click on another result. 81 00:07:29.434 --> 00:07:34.200 So what does that do to the publisher that made the gallons to quartz calculator? 82 00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:38.425 Well, now they don't get any traffic because Google just usurped it all, right? 83 00:07:38.945 --> 00:07:48.788 So you have to think differently about how you approach not only informational traffic, but also just any type of best content, any keyword that incorporates best in it. 84 00:07:49.288 --> 00:07:52.609 You'll likely see an AIO in there as well. 85 00:07:52.929 --> 00:07:56.049 Because it's top of funnel informational at that point. 86 00:07:56.450 --> 00:07:57.510 And Google wants to... 87 00:07:58.230 --> 00:08:01.211 basically allow users the best experience. 88 00:08:01.231 --> 00:08:03.191 That's been their mission from the get-go, right? 89 00:08:03.871 --> 00:08:10.633 It's going to be, their mission is to provide the world with access to all the information that's available to them, right? 90 00:08:11.133 --> 00:08:15.234 And this is just enabling users to get that information faster. 91 00:08:16.034 --> 00:08:27.197 I think that they were pushed into doing this by the advent of ChatGPT and other LLMs, but the direction of this coming has been known for some time. 92 00:08:27.742 --> 00:08:27.982 Yeah. 93 00:08:28.783 --> 00:08:37.888 Do you think that, you know, just working with your clients that, I mean, of course, you saw a little bit of a dip as AI started to infiltrate into the system? 94 00:08:39.168 --> 00:08:44.131 I think across the board, you're going to see a decline in organic traffic. 95 00:08:44.511 --> 00:08:50.715 That doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to see a dip in organic leads or things like that. 96 00:08:50.775 --> 00:08:56.778 Because in order for you to get a lead, they will probably have to call you or fill out a form or something like that, right? 97 00:08:57.338 --> 00:09:00.861 Uh, so that's why at search bloom we build from the bottom up, right? 98 00:09:00.921 --> 00:09:06.304 So we start at the bottom of the funnel and we build up from there because our promise is that of ROI. 99 00:09:06.604 --> 00:09:14.910 If we don't get ROI for you, yeah, SEO is something that does take time, but if we're not able to achieve return on investment, we are not keeping our promise. 100 00:09:14.950 --> 00:09:16.211 We are not doing our job. 101 00:09:16.831 --> 00:09:21.574 Uh, and, and frankly, I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to keep paying us and I would probably fire us too. 102 00:09:21.754 --> 00:09:21.955 Right. 103 00:09:21.995 --> 00:09:25.357 So, um, yeah, that's kind of the way that we look, we look at it. 104 00:09:25.805 --> 00:09:25.965 Yeah. 105 00:09:26.226 --> 00:09:32.113 When you typically start with a client, whether they are a completely brand new website or they're a website that has 106 00:09:33.098 --> 00:09:39.299 minimal amount of authority, you know, they haven't, they've touched on SEO, they've done some organic, but they haven't really switched on the lever. 107 00:09:39.799 --> 00:09:44.840 What, you know, you hear things like, you know, three to six months, what is the true sort of lever? 108 00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:47.601 And you could say, well, Sasha, it's industry-based. 109 00:09:47.701 --> 00:09:50.821 It's not necessarily just, you know, all industries are the same. 110 00:09:51.101 --> 00:10:00.123 And it also is depending on whether we're reaching out from a national standpoint or whether it's just from a local standpoint, but what is that kind of timeframe? 111 00:10:00.183 --> 00:10:00.963 Because, you know, 112 00:10:01.105 --> 00:10:05.410 You know, as we all know, entrepreneurs, small business owners are like, now, now, it needs to happen now. 113 00:10:05.450 --> 00:10:06.170 I need to have ROI now. 114 00:10:06.191 --> 00:10:06.351 Well. 115 00:10:09.684 --> 00:10:13.246 To every SEO's favorite answer, it depends. 116 00:10:13.846 --> 00:10:14.366 Yes. 117 00:10:14.446 --> 00:10:17.347 And I hate to say that, but I will explain how it depends. 118 00:10:17.827 --> 00:10:22.369 It depends on the market that you're in and the competitiveness of that market. 119 00:10:23.509 --> 00:10:33.073 For example, if you're targeting a very large head term nationally or even internationally, that's going to take a long time depending on where you started. 120 00:10:33.093 --> 00:10:33.213 Right. 121 00:10:33.733 --> 00:10:36.036 Like how far behind the competition are you? 122 00:10:36.396 --> 00:10:43.043 And then we provide a gap analysis and we can leverage that gap analysis to then forecast and future cast on where we need to be. 123 00:10:43.404 --> 00:10:45.686 What budget is required to get there, right? 124 00:10:46.067 --> 00:10:54.756 Whereas with local, almost every – there's a few caveats or exceptions, but almost every local B&M or brick-and-mortar store – 125 00:10:55.717 --> 00:10:58.018 it does not take long to show return on investment. 126 00:10:58.038 --> 00:11:00.679 I'm, I'm talking two weeks, maybe less. 127 00:11:01.179 --> 00:11:03.280 And that's just Google business profile optimization. 128 00:11:03.300 --> 00:11:05.201 There just hasn't been done

business owners. 129 00:11:05.241 --> 00:11:06.861 They're, they're very busy running a business. 130 00:11:07.121 --> 00:11:17.785 They don't have time to, to opt, optimize their Google business profile, let alone get citations and listings elsewhere outside of Google business profile and, and optimizing their website. 131 00:11:17.805 --> 00:11:21.407 It's just another level, a lever they could pull. 132 00:11:21.447 --> 00:11:22.367 But, um, 133 00:11:23.211 --> 00:11:26.836 In of itself, local SEO, you can move the needle very quickly. 134 00:11:26.856 --> 00:11:27.337 Really fast. 135 00:11:27.437 --> 00:11:27.717 Yeah. 136 00:11:27.937 --> 00:11:28.218 Yeah. 137 00:11:28.398 --> 00:11:29.079 Google business. 138 00:11:29.159 --> 00:11:30.020 I completely agree. 139 00:11:30.481 --> 00:11:30.881 I love that. 140 00:11:31.222 --> 00:11:36.589 Your art framework, authority, relevance, and trust is the foundation of your approach. 141 00:11:37.030 --> 00:11:40.675 How has that evolved in today's AI-dominated ecosystem? 142 00:11:42.969 --> 00:11:45.070 Well, it's a methodology. 143 00:11:45.090 --> 00:11:48.231 And tell us a little bit how you coined that, actually. 144 00:11:48.291 --> 00:11:48.991 It's a good question. 145 00:11:49.551 --> 00:11:55.852 So it first started off as, when I first started the company, it was technology, relevance, trust. 146 00:11:56.633 --> 00:12:02.454 And then over time, it evolved into authority, relevance, and technology. 147 00:12:03.254 --> 00:12:05.775 And each of them are very important. 148 00:12:05.895 --> 00:12:09.976 And then we've actually just recently added S. So it's arts, right? 149 00:12:10.136 --> 00:12:13.459 So that S is for strategy, right? 150 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:22.287 Like if you don't have strategy incorporated, then you could, it's almost like, uh, shooting, having a gunfight in pitch black, right? 151 00:12:22.307 --> 00:12:23.748 So it's like, it's very difficult. 152 00:12:24.109 --> 00:12:27.292 So strategy is critically important, but, uh, breaking it down. 153 00:12:27.332 --> 00:12:28.192 How did it evolve? 154 00:12:28.673 --> 00:12:29.754 It's evolved over time. 155 00:12:29.954 --> 00:12:33.197 Search Blumens we've been in business for over 10 years now. 156 00:12:33.717 --> 00:12:36.340 Uh, we have to adapt to Google. 157 00:12:37.801 --> 00:12:42.724 not just on the SEO side, but also on the ad side, because we provide Google ads for businesses as well. 158 00:12:43.405 --> 00:12:45.966 And it is very much a moving target. 159 00:12:46.527 --> 00:12:53.631 But with that said, this methodology of art or arts, it's stood the test of time. 160 00:12:54.032 --> 00:13:02.678 Even with the most, over the past two years, I have not seen more changes to the SERP than I have my previous 10 years of experience. 161 00:13:03.518 --> 00:13:06.879 Or even, gosh, I think it might be 16 years of total experience now. 162 00:13:06.939 --> 00:13:16.722 So I've seen a lot of changes in the

SERP, especially as it relates to artificial intelligence and AIOs, featured results, all kinds of different things. 163 00:13:16.822 --> 00:13:21.344 And I think overall, it has ultimately stood the test of time. 164 00:13:21.384 --> 00:13:22.504 So we stick with it. 165 00:13:23.189 --> 00:13:23.429 Yeah. 166 00:13:24.130 --> 00:13:39.618 So, you know, we, we touched a little bit about this just in terms of, you know, the snake oil and like just, you know, some skepticism and, you know, people having, you know, bad experiences, you know, with having either signed on an agency, worked with somebody from, from Upwork and so on. 167 00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:42.280 How do you use, and you talked a lot about ethical. 168 00:13:43.145 --> 00:13:58.656 How do you use ethical SEO practices to build that trust in an industry that's, you know, full of black boxes and it's, and it's rising because, you know, you, I think there was this, I forget what the name of the company was, but it was all of a sudden like, Hey, I can do it for you, right? 169 00:13:58.696 --> 00:14:03.339 The blogs, like, you know, add all these keywords to your like website and so on and so forth. 170 00:14:03.399 --> 00:14:06.141 And it's just, it botched somebody's website. 171 00:14:06.201 --> 00:14:06.481 Right. 172 00:14:06.981 --> 00:14:11.104 So, I mean, you know, how do you, how do you conduct that in this ever-changing world? 173 00:14:11.124 --> 00:14:11.304 Yeah. 174 00:14:12.008 --> 00:14:14.331 Yeah, so we actually just flip the script, right? 175 00:14:14.372 --> 00:14:17.456 So what we do is we practice what we preach. 176 00:14:17.496 --> 00:14:18.698 We do our own SEO. 177 00:14:18.958 --> 00:14:21.061 All of our leads are inbound 100%. 178 00:14:21.182 --> 00:14:26.389 We do no outbound marketing at all, except for remarketing, and that I wouldn't even consider outbound, right? 179 00:14:27.230 --> 00:14:39.054 Um, effectively from, from there, let's say we get a prospect or a lead and, and they fit, uh, our ICPs, uh, from there, we actually do our deal due diligence on the company itself. 180 00:14:39.534 --> 00:14:41.074 Is this a company we want to work with? 181 00:14:41.134 --> 00:14:42.555 Do they have a good reputation? 182 00:14:43.455 --> 00:14:54.066 Um, and if they do now, now we move on to, uh, again, is this something can, can we provide a return on investment for if we can great, then we move on to the next step. 183 00:14:54.367 --> 00:14:57.550 The next step is doing a full audit and proposal. 184 00:14:58.151 --> 00:14:59.812 And I'm not talking about some. 185 00:15:00.493 --> 00:15:02.294 click a few buttons and here's your audit. 186 00:15:02.455 --> 00:15:04.616 Here's your SEMrush audit or here's your HRSA. 187 00:15:04.836 --> 00:15:13.903 This is a manual process that we take to ensure that we're bringing on the right partners, that we can help and keep our promise. 188 00:15:14.424 --> 00:15:15.965 That's the reason that we have been able to

189 00:15:16.819 --> 00:15:18.000 be around for so long. 190 00:15:18.060 --> 00:15:23.405 You could probably count on your hands and toes how many SEO agencies have been around for 10 plus years. 191 00:15:24.106 --> 00:15:27.850 And that's simply because majority of them choose the shortcuts. 192 00:15:28.230 --> 00:15:35.077 They choose the profit as opposed to agency profit, that is, as opposed to playing it, playing the long game. 193 00:15:35.097 --> 00:15:40.782 Because as you mentioned in the earlier, in the beginning there, Sasha, SEO is the gift that kind of keeps on giving. 194 00:15:41.483 --> 00:15:49.343 But only if it's strategic SEO, only if it's nurtured SEO, and that type of SEO takes time to build. 195 00:15:50.862 --> 00:15:51.082 Yeah. 196 00:15:51.342 --> 00:15:52.782 I mean, it really, it really does. 197 00:15:52.862 --> 00:15:58.644 And then, like I said, I mean, once you get that engine going, I mean, it's just, it's, it's wonderful, you know what I mean? 198 00:15:58.664 --> 00:16:04.845 But it's, it's invest in the time and the energy and just, just keep, keep at it. 199 00:16:05.125 --> 00:16:12.567 Do you find that a lot of the times that when you bring on clients, you're kind of having to give them a peek into the inside of the backend in terms of what happens? 200 00:16:12.627 --> 00:16:16.108 Because they, it's very hard to tactically understand how, 201 00:16:16.597 --> 00:16:20.289 what happens on a day-to-day basis because the SEO isn't just to set it and forget it. 202 00:16:20.630 --> 00:16:22.497 We update your websites with a few keywords. 203 00:16:22.537 --> 00:16:23.460 It's a constant bid. 204 00:16:24.677 --> 00:16:32.041 Yeah, it evolves over time, especially as you, for example, we will do a benchmark analysis, right? 205 00:16:32.441 --> 00:16:35.103 To essentially see what is basis? 206 00:16:35.183 --> 00:16:39.385 Where are you currently as it reflects in competition, right? 207 00:16:40.126 --> 00:16:42.627 These are your five competitors or your 10 competitors. 208 00:16:43.007 --> 00:16:44.408 How do you stack up against them? 209 00:16:44.828 --> 00:16:48.930 And in what areas do you severely need the help or where are you lacking, right? 210 00:16:49.671 --> 00:16:53.253 From there, we design a custom 90-day roadmap. 211 00:16:53.293 --> 00:16:53.493 Right? 212 00:16:53.553 --> 00:16:54.494 And that's how we work. 213 00:16:54.694 --> 00:16:59.697 Every single 90 days, we're creating a custom 90-day roadmap because things can change. 214 00:17:00.037 --> 00:17:06.482 Maybe the business owner needs something on their website changed that is more of a priority than developing a high-quality link. 215 00:17:07.137 --> 00:17:07.797 And I get that. 216 00:17:08.058 --> 00:17:08.498 I get that. 217 00:17:08.518 --> 00:17:14.582 So we enable, the reason that we call our clients partners is because we embed ourselves into their team. 218 00:17:15.243 --> 00:17:18.265 And we want to know, hey, this is a priority over that. 219 00:17:18.625 --> 00:17:20.646 And I get that as a business owner. 220 00:17:20.906 --> 00:17:24.469 So I'm going to make room for it in my plan, in my roadmap, you know? 221 00:17:24.549 --> 00:17:25.750 Yeah, yeah, that's great. 222 00:17:26.410 --> 00:17:31.894 So you call it the marketing trifecta, SEO, PPC, and CRO. 223 00:17:32.134 --> 00:17:35.056 Why is conversion optimization often missing clients? 224 00:17:35.756 --> 00:17:39.599 link in campaigns and how should companies be thinking about it in 2025? 225 00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:40.740 Yeah. 226 00:17:40.820 --> 00:17:43.782 Well, I mean, uh, small companies, I'll start with them. 227 00:17:43.802 --> 00:17:54.610 Um, small companies are, it's important for small businesses to have on their website, a form fill above the fold of an action above the fold on every single page. 228 00:17:54.850 --> 00:17:55.051 Right. 229 00:17:55.491 --> 00:17:56.191 That's because, um, 230 00:17:57.052 --> 00:18:07.378 When you're in a service business, say you're an HVAC company or a roofing company or a dentistry or orthodontist, whatever it might be, you're a local service entity. 231 00:18:08.498 --> 00:18:16.342 You need to be able to have calls to actions above the fold because majority of people on the internet nowadays, they don't read. 232 00:18:16.763 --> 00:18:18.724 They just skim at best, right? 233 00:18:18.844 --> 00:18:19.024 Yeah. 234 00:18:19.604 --> 00:18:22.665 So it's critically important to have those elements above the fold. 235 00:18:23.425 --> 00:18:45.150 Whereas with other industries like e-commerce and, and national SEO, just in general targeting nationally, you can drive enough traffic to where you can do proper CRO testing, where you can test the X, Y, Z variant versus B variant versus C variant all simultaneously using a tool such as like a visual website optimizer. 236 00:18:45.751 --> 00:18:47.071 And that's where you start, uh, 237 00:18:47.651 --> 00:18:49.952 really multiplying your traffic value. 238 00:18:50.572 --> 00:18:53.953 Um, because at the end of the day, what is SEO? 239 00:18:54.133 --> 00:18:56.254 SEO provides traffic, right? 240 00:18:56.474 --> 00:18:58.294 And it's a, it's a form of free traffic. 241 00:18:58.754 --> 00:19:03.256 Although you pay for the investment of SEO, it can live and perpetuate for years to come. 242 00:19:03.476 --> 00:19:03.696 Right. 243 00:19:04.376 --> 00:19:08.597 Um, whereas with Google ads, it's kind of like more like you're renting, you're renting that spot. 244 00:19:08.617 --> 00:19:11.338 As soon as you stop renting, you don't get any more leads. 245 00:19:11.518 --> 00:19:12.659 It's you're done, right? 246 00:19:12.979 --> 00:19:13.959 SEO will perpetuate. 247 00:19:13.979 --> 00:19:16.980 It's more, uh, buying a house versus renting a house, you know? 248 00:19:17.020 --> 00:19:17.220 Yeah. 249 00:19:17.540 --> 00:19:25.803 And then when you layer on conversion rate optimization, what

you're effectively doing is refinancing your house at a much, much lower rate, right? 250 00:19:27.023 --> 00:19:41.908 And it enables you to, by incrementally improving your CVR or your conversion rate, what you're doing, even if it's by a quarter of a point, you are driving more and more and more leads into your business incrementally over time. 251 00:19:42.370 --> 00:19:42.590 Yeah. 252 00:19:43.211 --> 00:19:53.280 I've always wanted to ask this question from the standpoint of, you know, you have a company that has a local kind of, you know, chapter, let's say in one state, right? 253 00:19:53.680 --> 00:19:57.283 But they, it could be like an HVAC or a construction company. 254 00:19:57.383 --> 00:20:02.428 They do have feet on the ground to support other kind of local communities. 255 00:20:03.383 --> 00:20:07.210 But they don't necessarily have the Google My Business address in every spot. 256 00:20:07.350 --> 00:20:17.347 How does somebody create hotspots within that local community, but, you know, when they only have like one physical office, like in one state? 257 00:20:18.125 --> 00:20:19.246 Yeah, that's a great question. 258 00:20:19.366 --> 00:20:23.990 So there's a few different ways to approach it, and I will give you my preferred way. 259 00:20:24.431 --> 00:20:29.656 One way to approach it would be to have an office in another location that you want to rank in, right? 260 00:20:29.696 --> 00:20:30.917 Yeah. 261 00:20:31.657 --> 00:20:36.762 And that can be difficult because now you have a new Google business profile that has zero reviews. 262 00:20:37.102 --> 00:20:38.163 You have to build that up. 263 00:20:38.584 --> 00:20:42.588 And now let's say you want to rank in four or five different cities around your main city. 264 00:20:43.188 --> 00:20:49.011 Well, golly, that's a lot of admin work for your, for, for now we're talking about five different Google business profiles. 265 00:20:49.591 --> 00:20:51.612 And in reality, it's all the same business. 266 00:20:51.632 --> 00:20:53.332 You're just serving different areas. 267 00:20:53.953 --> 00:20:55.233 So I do not recommend that. 268 00:20:55.353 --> 00:20:56.714 That's one, that's one way. 269 00:20:56.794 --> 00:20:58.775 And people still do it, but I don't recommend it. 270 00:20:59.735 --> 00:21:10.600 The second way is becoming a hybrid business, which is in Google business profile, you can have your brick and mortar location, which is your address, and then you can add service areas. 271 00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:13.041 to your Google Business Profile. 272 00:21:13.361 --> 00:21:18.644 And that's an effective route from a Google Business Profile optimization standpoint. 273 00:21:18.924 --> 00:21:26.628 You can increase your or expand your proximity in rankings simply by adding service areas. 274 00:21:27.729 --> 00:21:29.390 But it doesn't do enough. 275 00:21:29.970 --> 00:21:31.552 It does a little bit, but it doesn't do enough. 276 00:21:31.912 --> 00:21:40.819 So what I do, and what we've trained our team on doing, is doing that, but also creating things as well. 277 00:21:41.019 --> 00:21:44.181 Local geographic pages in those specific cities. 278 00:21:44.602 --> 00:21:49.966 So, for example, if you're in New York, maybe we're talking about a specific borough in New York. 279 00:21:50.787 --> 00:21:51.767 In Manhattan, right? 280 00:21:52.128 --> 00:21:56.392 Maybe we're talking about the Upper East Side or something like that, or Brooklyn or Bronx or whatever. 281 00:21:57.573 --> 00:22:07.262 Having dedicated geographic location pages ultimately sends signals to Google that you service these locations and you have pages that substantiate that. 282 00:22:08.117 --> 00:22:09.219 That's my recommendation. 283 00:22:09.339 --> 00:22:14.867 Yeah, no, I like that because, you know, obviously there is a multitude of, you know, different services. 284 00:22:14.907 --> 00:22:16.249 Like I live in South Florida. 285 00:22:16.309 --> 00:22:17.371 There is Fort Lauderdale. 286 00:22:17.391 --> 00:22:18.072 There's Boca. 287 00:22:18.132 --> 00:22:19.735 There is Palm Beach. 288 00:22:19.895 --> 00:22:21.197 You know, there's South Miami. 289 00:22:21.918 --> 00:22:22.759 There's South Beach. 290 00:22:22.979 --> 00:22:28.325 And a lot of people could have one main office, which you call like the hyper local Google My Business. 291 00:22:28.345 --> 00:22:29.406 This is the area. 292 00:22:29.446 --> 00:22:30.467 This is the radius. 293 00:22:30.908 --> 00:22:33.250 But then you service all these other areas. 294 00:22:33.290 --> 00:22:39.437 And I think from a service industry, that's really helpful to know, you know, to really kind of expand that that reach. 295 00:22:39.457 --> 00:22:39.697 Yeah. 296 00:22:39.957 --> 00:22:47.843 Yeah, a lot of opportunity with Google Business Profile Optimization that simply just is not taken advantage of by adding products. 297 00:22:48.444 --> 00:22:48.584 Yes. 298 00:22:49.024 --> 00:22:51.926 And it's a synonym for services if you're a service business. 299 00:22:51.946 --> 00:22:58.131 Like if you provide roofing and you provide gutters, well, then you want to have those bifurcated in your Google Business Profile. 300 00:22:58.411 --> 00:22:58.551 Yes. 301 00:22:58.631 --> 00:23:05.597 And doing so in products as well as in the back end and services, it ultimately just, again, sends signals to Google to... 302 00:23:05.937 --> 00:23:12.120 to let the algorithm know that you want to target these people and these locations for these services. 303 00:23:12.500 --> 00:23:12.680 Yeah. 304 00:23:13.321 --> 00:23:23.466 How do you balance out the long-term build-out of organic SEO with the short-term paid wins, you know, for folks that want that kind of quick win? 305 00:23:23.486 --> 00:23:29.069 Do you automatically bring in Google ads as you guys are building out organic search? 306 00:23:29.689 --> 00:23:31.730 Or what is your kind of strategy and method? 307 00:23:31.770 -->

00:23:34.912 And I know you're going to say it depends on the client and the industry and... 308 00:23:36.002 --> 00:23:37.348 Yeah, well, you're right. 309 00:23:37.670 --> 00:23:38.935 It does depend on... 310 00:23:41.728 --> 00:23:42.828 the client itself, right? 311 00:23:42.888 --> 00:23:44.689 So do they need leads yesterday? 312 00:23:44.709 --> 00:23:46.629 Is that a dire need? 313 00:23:46.749 --> 00:23:52.011 Then, well, yeah, we're going to lean into, if it's a service business, we'll probably do LSAs or local service ads. 314 00:23:52.871 --> 00:23:55.031 Obviously we'll be doing search ads. 315 00:23:55.371 --> 00:23:58.372 And then we'll lean on SEO long-term, right? 316 00:23:58.792 --> 00:23:59.793 We'll rent for a little bit. 317 00:23:59.833 --> 00:24:03.793 It's just like when you're beginning in your life, you're going to rent for a little while. 318 00:24:03.813 --> 00:24:06.154 You don't have the capital to really put down 20% on a home, right? 319 00:24:06.254 --> 00:24:06.354 But 320 00:24:10.675 --> 00:24:18.197 over time, you're able to reinvest those dollars that you're making from Google Ads into a longer term solution, which is SEO. 321 00:24:18.737 --> 00:24:20.097 Yeah, no, I like that. 322 00:24:20.417 --> 00:24:23.578 And it's also budgetary constraints for somebody. 323 00:24:23.618 --> 00:24:34.820 They may, you know, either opt in one before the other and then just kind of build their bucket with, you know, top of the funnel and like, you know, get some clients or whatever it is and then kind of add to grow. 324 00:24:34.840 --> 00:24:34.940 Yeah. 325 00:24:35.165 --> 00:24:38.086 Yeah, but budgets a big, it's a big part of it too. 326 00:24:38.146 --> 00:24:49.890 Like just, it's a big qualifier for us, like in our business development process, because if they have a, if they have a $15,000 a month budget, we might be able to do these certain things, right? 327 00:24:50.510 --> 00:24:53.411 But it depends very much on the competitive side of it. 328 00:24:53.451 --> 00:24:54.471 Depends on the location. 329 00:24:54.511 --> 00:24:57.472 It depends on if they're national or international or if they're just local. 330 00:24:58.073 --> 00:25:02.154 Um, we might be able to thread in certain aspects of what we do, um, 331 00:25:03.241 --> 00:25:05.203 into their campaign or projects with us. 332 00:25:05.263 --> 00:25:16.213 But if we're talking international or national or e-commerce for that matter, yeah, I mean, we don't work with people that aren't willing to invest in their home. 333 00:25:16.753 --> 00:25:17.334 Yeah. 334 00:25:17.354 --> 00:25:19.776 So that's especially from the Google Ads standpoint. 335 00:25:20.188 --> 00:25:21.268 Yes, absolutely. 336 00:25:21.288 --> 00:25:21.509 Yeah. 337 00:25:21.589 --> 00:25:35.494 I mean, if you're not willing to put at least $10,000 into your Google ad spend, you're not going to see enough data in order for me as an analyst or for my team as analysts to really make decisions to make it better. 338 00:25:36.775 --> 00:25:40.496 So it does take a decent amount of spend to really move the needle. 339 00:25:40.916 --> 00:25:41.236 Agreed. 340 00:25:41.597 --> 00:25:47.479 And then on the flip side with organic SEO, what is the sort of starting run rate for a company? 341 00:25:48.585 --> 00:25:51.146 So it depends on the company itself. 342 00:25:51.186 --> 00:25:52.287 There's a lot of those. 343 00:25:52.667 --> 00:25:57.088 I will just say it, frankly, there's a lot of snake oils out there, right? 344 00:25:57.108 --> 00:25:58.609 There's a lot of snake oil companies out there. 345 00:25:58.629 --> 00:26:00.850 They're going to offer you guaranteed SEO. 346 00:26:01.290 --> 00:26:03.031 They're going to offer you guaranteed rankings. 347 00:26:03.351 --> 00:26:05.312 Their pricing is going to be so awesome. 348 00:26:05.612 --> 00:26:11.474 Maybe it's $400 a month, $750 a month, and you feel like you're getting the best deal in the world. 349 00:26:12.374 --> 00:26:14.215 What is happening in reality is... 350 00:26:14.575 --> 00:26:15.356 is not much. 351 00:26:15.656 --> 00:26:27.189 You're paying $750, $1,000, $1,500 a month, and you're just not getting what you could be getting out of that investment with an ethical or a white hat firm like Search Bloom. 352 00:26:27.229 --> 00:26:28.511 We put your dollars to work. 353 00:26:28.831 --> 00:26:29.572 Now, you're not going to get 354 00:26:29.885 --> 00:26:31.667 We don't offer packages. 355 00:26:31.727 --> 00:26:35.270 We don't do silver, bronze, gold, platinum, bull stuff. 356 00:26:35.290 --> 00:26:35.890 We don't do that. 357 00:26:36.231 --> 00:26:37.972 It's like, this is our recommendation. 358 00:26:38.513 --> 00:26:41.595 You can go faster or you can stay at our minimum. 359 00:26:41.695 --> 00:26:45.018 Our minimum for our national SEO campaign is $5,000 per month. 360 00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:52.345 And it will go up from there depending on the competition and our current basis with the partner themselves. 361 00:26:52.805 --> 00:26:54.486 Where are they in the competitive landscape? 362 00:26:54.847 --> 00:26:55.027 Yeah. 363 00:26:55.515 --> 00:27:02.537 And to understand the price that goes into that is really what you talk about, that 364 00:27:03.612 --> 00:27:11.637 And the difference between you and somebody who's, you know, charging the four to $500 is that there, you guys are like in it committed. 365 00:27:12.178 --> 00:27:15.620 You have your clients, your account folks that are dedicated to each client. 366 00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:17.501 And this is a day-to-day practice. 367 00:27:17.582 --> 00:27:19.663 It's not a set it and forget it. 368 00:27:19.743 --> 00:27:22.685 It's not like a weekly check-in, you know, updates. 369 00:27:22.705 --> 00:27:25.527 These are their changes that are happening on the minute. 370 00:27:26.146 --> 00:27:27.287 Yes, we are. 371 00:27:27.567 --> 00:27:30.290 We are making substantial changes very

quickly. 372 00:27:31.091 --> 00:27:44.404 Um, with that being said, we work with a lot of mid-market, uh, businesses, enterprise level businesses where things just don't simply move that fast, but we have the agility where we can work with business owners on the local SEO side. 373 00:27:44.884 --> 00:27:45.745 No, it's not $750. 374 00:27:45.765 --> 00:27:46.486 Our minimum is $2,500 a month. 375 00:27:49.168 --> 00:27:55.196 But you will be able to see substantial growth within two months guaranteed in almost every sector. 376 00:27:55.436 --> 00:28:00.502 There's only a couple that are so competitive that you might not see it in two months. 377 00:28:00.522 --> 00:28:08.112 And that's going to be your personal injuries in attorneys in New York or Manhattan or highly densely populated areas. 378 00:28:08.532 --> 00:28:09.132 Or Florida. 379 00:28:09.532 --> 00:28:10.533 Or Florida. 380 00:28:10.593 --> 00:28:12.313 Orlando, Miami. 381 00:28:12.333 --> 00:28:13.154 Yes, exactly. 382 00:28:13.194 --> 00:28:13.454 Yeah. 383 00:28:13.694 --> 00:28:13.954 Yeah. 384 00:28:14.614 --> 00:28:22.197 So migrating a little into your internal side, you know, obviously you have, you know, a tenure of almost like five years, which is fantastic. 385 00:28:22.277 --> 00:28:25.818 And, you know, you operate like a people first agency. 386 00:28:26.038 --> 00:28:33.341 And I almost want to, from an internal standpoint, but I almost want to say just from talking to you, you operate also as a business first from an external standpoint. 387 00:28:33.381 --> 00:28:34.702 Because your guarantee is. 388 00:28:36.442 --> 00:28:42.366 Um, like I've, I've always said this, I feel like people are more successful when they focus on the, the success rate of an actual client versus the concentration on, you know, the ROI, everybody's in business to make money. 389 00:28:42.386 --> 00:28:53.692 But when you really focus on pushing clients into the right direction, as we talked from an ethics standpoint, um, you know, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, 390 00:28:54.085 --> 00:28:57.171 In the end of the day, at the end, you're going to make a lot more money, right? 391 00:28:57.792 --> 00:29:02.840 So what's your leadership philosophy when it comes to team retention and client retention? 392 00:29:02.861 --> 00:29:05.726 Because I'm sure that that's pretty big around, you know, with you guys. 393 00:29:06.957 --> 00:29:15.464 Well, I wish I could tell you something that hasn't already been said, but most of it's going to have already been said. 394 00:29:16.325 --> 00:29:17.926 Number one is you lead by example. 395 00:29:19.267 --> 00:29:25.892 If you want your team to track their time against a particular project, well, then you need to be tracking your time, right? 396 00:29:26.453 --> 00:29:27.193 If you want to... 397 00:29:30.273 --> 00:29:36.659 come up with a new strategy or a new idea, again, it comes top down and people first, right? 398 00:29:36.739 --> 00:29:49.691 So at the end of the day, I think leading by example is a phenomenal way that I think that we've been able to incorporate that into our overall culture. 399 00:29:50.251 --> 00:29:56.297 But also holding others to account, like having – this is what – this is the bar, right? 400 00:29:57.017 --> 00:30:04.846 And it's critically important for your job for you to hit the bar every single time, if not exceed the bar, right? 401 00:30:05.207 --> 00:30:07.149 We're looking for those that exceed the bar. 402 00:30:07.970 --> 00:30:14.978 Because when we hire, we have several different levels of senior SEO specialists. 403 00:30:16.039 --> 00:30:22.644 We've had directors of SEO from other agencies come over to Search Bloom and their level is a level one. 404 00:30:23.264 --> 00:30:28.067 So it's just a totally different game when you're playing it at this level. 405 00:30:28.608 --> 00:30:28.788 Yeah. 406 00:30:29.217 --> 00:30:31.898 Have you had to make hard choices along the way to get to this point? 407 00:30:32.238 --> 00:30:33.838 So many, Sasha, so many. 408 00:30:33.978 --> 00:30:40.799 And a lot of those are people, decisions that maybe it's people that you really like. 409 00:30:41.559 --> 00:30:42.380 You really like them. 410 00:30:42.440 --> 00:30:55.302 But if they consistently are not meeting the minimum bar or the minimum criteria, after a period of time of coaching and training and holding them to account, that's, 411 00:30:55.483 --> 00:30:59.105 Well, frankly, there's a giving point. 412 00:30:59.385 --> 00:31:06.568 And that giving point happens in the form of they either leave because they realize they can't do it or we part ways and we let them go. 413 00:31:06.888 --> 00:31:08.429 Yeah, it is the hardest decision. 414 00:31:08.449 --> 00:31:10.429 But at the end of the day, it's business, you know. 415 00:31:10.449 --> 00:31:11.450 Yeah. 416 00:31:12.328 --> 00:31:21.634 So let's talk AI, the ever evolving, like, you know, drumbeat that everybody has been talking about for the last, like, oh, year and a half now. 417 00:31:22.114 --> 00:31:28.458 But it's obviously shaken up a lot of core, a lot of core marketing. 418 00:31:28.478 --> 00:31:29.018 Yeah. 419 00:31:29.649 --> 00:31:30.889 platforms or channels. 420 00:31:30.989 --> 00:31:50.354 But, and a lot of people, I think when it first came out, like as marketers who maybe weren't necessarily clued into a lot of MarTech that already was running a lot of AI, maybe not to the extent of the level in terms of how fast paced it's moving today, but, you know, a lot of, a lot of platforms already had AI embedded, you know, things that

were happening from an automation standpoint. 421 00:31:50.874 --> 00:31:54.496 But what are the yays and nays when it comes to SEO? 422 00:31:55.537 --> 00:32:03.082 And obviously, you know, we'll go back to when ChatGPT first launched and everybody's like, I can start to produce, you know, blogs on a daily basis. 423 00:32:03.162 --> 00:32:05.483 It can be like a dump of a copy and paste. 424 00:32:05.543 --> 00:32:13.688 And obviously them not understanding that this is a Google slash Microsoft war words, like we're not going to rank your website now because everything is AI generated. 425 00:32:14.048 --> 00:32:19.752 But let's just dive in a little bit in terms of do's and don'ts with AI as it relates specifically to SEO. 426 00:32:20.173 --> 00:32:25.011 to organic SEO and if, you know, to paid ads as well, Google paid ads. 427 00:32:25.522 --> 00:32:25.802 Yes. 428 00:32:26.062 --> 00:32:26.262 Yes. 429 00:32:26.282 --> 00:32:26.822 Let's dive in. 430 00:32:26.842 --> 00:32:28.503 So do use it. 431 00:32:29.503 --> 00:32:35.544 And I might catch flack for this, but I use it every single day for all kinds of- And which part? 432 00:32:35.604 --> 00:32:40.445 Are we speaking specifically to ChatGPT or- I don't know that it so much matters. 433 00:32:40.966 --> 00:32:48.767 The reason is because they're all trained on a lot of the same data set, which is the internet, right? 434 00:32:49.188 --> 00:32:50.808 They all are trained on the internet. 435 00:32:51.288 --> 00:32:54.709 And in a lot of cases, like for example, DeepSeq was trained using OpenAI. 436 00:32:55.849 --> 00:33:01.471 Um, chat GPT, I am, I'm, I'm partial to chat GPT simply because I've used it a lot. 437 00:33:01.911 --> 00:33:03.791 Um, I have it downloaded at this point. 438 00:33:03.831 --> 00:33:04.071 Yeah. 439 00:33:04.452 --> 00:33:06.152 If I ask it, who am I? 440 00:33:06.712 --> 00:33:11.434 It will, it will tell me who I am and it will tell me who I am probably better than I could tell me who I am. 441 00:33:11.894 --> 00:33:15.375 I actually did an experiment last weekend and I asked it that question. 442 00:33:15.755 --> 00:33:18.516 It was staggeringly, uh, correct. 443 00:33:18.876 --> 00:33:20.536 And I told me things about myself. 444 00:33:20.556 --> 00:33:21.276 I didn't even know. 445 00:33:21.536 --> 00:33:21.737 Right. 446 00:33:21.997 --> 00:33:22.957 Which I thought was really cool. 447 00:33:23.597 --> 00:33:26.481 Um, but you could do the same thing over time with perplexity. 448 00:33:26.722 --> 00:33:27.663 You could do the same thing. 449 00:33:28.384 --> 00:33:29.666 I have my hesitations with Grok. 450 00:33:30.066 --> 00:33:31.368 I like Grok there. 451 00:33:31.549 --> 00:33:35.694 There are some things where it just, it just spins its wheels over and over and over and again. 452 00:33:36.175 --> 00:33:39.580 So while I think it's really quick tool, um. 453 00:33:40.060 --> 00:33:47.807 I don't think its usership is really close to that of OpenAI or ChatGPT, Perplexity, Claude, these other models out there. 454 00:33:48.968 --> 00:33:53.632 When I say do use it, I mean do use it to come up with ideas. 455 00:33:53.752 --> 00:33:58.176 Do use it when you have a question about something that might be not on the internet. 456 00:33:58.676 --> 00:33:58.857 Yeah. 457 00:33:59.357 --> 00:34:02.961 Use it to make your work life more streamlined. 458 00:34:03.722 --> 00:34:16.097 With that said, a way that you do not want to use it is by saying, hey, please write a blog post on this particular subject matter because Google will know that it's AI out of the gate. 459 00:34:16.137 --> 00:34:16.678 It will know that. 460 00:34:17.198 --> 00:34:20.181 And then it will deprioritize it right out of the gate. 461 00:34:20.601 --> 00:34:25.786 And the problem with that is that now you've told Google that you're taking shortcuts on this website. 462 00:34:26.247 --> 00:34:32.753 And Google is going to over time, if you continue to take those shortcuts, it will deprioritize your entire website, your entire domain. 463 00:34:33.073 --> 00:34:41.320 It's almost like when folks are focused on, you know, the numbers game of their growth of Instagram and you go out and you start to boost. 464 00:34:41.700 --> 00:34:46.324 Honestly, guys, if you boost, it's going to deprioritize your content as well. 465 00:34:46.524 --> 00:34:56.933 And it's just like if you go out and work with some of these other platforms that, you know, want to build up your following, it's also going to deprioritize because it's going to be the whole algorithm. 466 00:34:56.953 --> 00:34:59.135 So yeah, same, same kind of connection. 467 00:34:59.817 --> 00:35:00.237 Exactly. 468 00:35:00.517 --> 00:35:00.897 Exactly. 469 00:35:00.937 --> 00:35:03.799 I mean, it really depends on the end point of the goal, right? 470 00:35:03.979 --> 00:35:08.501 If you tell, for example, Facebook or, or any way meta, right? 471 00:35:08.961 --> 00:35:14.183 If you tell it, Hey, I want to increase my followers in a particular location, it will do that thing. 472 00:35:14.703 --> 00:35:16.084 But how active are those followers? 473 00:35:16.124 --> 00:35:21.186 How much do they really care about your business, especially as a, maybe a local HVAC company? 474 00:35:21.806 --> 00:35:28.829 Do you think that a lot of people are using TikTok or, or Instagram to find their next roofer? 475 00:35:29.661 --> 00:35:32.304 No, in a lot of cases, they are not. 476 00:35:33.105 --> 00:35:35.567 Some may be in different generations, younger generations. 477 00:35:35.908 --> 00:35:38.490 They might be using that, using hashtags and things like that. 478 00:35:38.851 --> 00:35:39.231 Helpful. 479 00:35:39.571 --> 00:35:43.696 But ultimately, it will all feed, because it's public in a lot of cases. 480 00:35:43.856 --> 00:35:45.257 It will all feed into LLMs. 481 00:35:45.277 --> 00:35:46.398 It will all feed into Google. 482 00:35:46.639 --> 00:35:50.102 You see

the Twitter cards in Google already, and you have for many years. 483 00:35:51.566 --> 00:36:01.092 These are data that Google takes in and then runs through all of its algorithms and puts it into the SERP where it belongs the best. 484 00:36:01.673 --> 00:36:01.953 Yeah. 485 00:36:03.374 --> 00:36:09.398 Without giving away too much of your secret sauce, obviously, what are sort of the top – 486 00:36:10.537 --> 00:36:16.441 the top, let's say somebody is just kind of creeping into organic SEO. 487 00:36:16.481 --> 00:36:17.622 They're a new business. 488 00:36:17.702 --> 00:36:20.103 They are, you know, building out their budget. 489 00:36:20.123 --> 00:36:28.869 They want to at least understand how to get that engine started so that when they do have ROI that funnels in, they can go out and hire somebody. 490 00:36:29.289 --> 00:36:39.716 How would you kind of put them in a position to start organic SEO and what platforms would you suggest for them to be using? 491 00:36:40.261 --> 00:36:40.842 Good question. 492 00:36:41.642 --> 00:36:46.006 I'll go back to one of those Green Beret quotes, slow is smooth, smooth is fast, right? 493 00:36:46.046 --> 00:36:50.130 So first find the right partner for your business, right? 494 00:36:50.670 --> 00:36:54.354 And maybe it's an SEO company that specifically works with roofers. 495 00:36:54.454 --> 00:36:55.414 I don't know. 496 00:36:55.575 --> 00:36:56.936 There's probably plenty of them. 497 00:36:57.296 --> 00:37:01.597 We are agnostic when it comes to industry, except for a couple of industries. 498 00:37:01.617 --> 00:37:02.997 We just no-go. 499 00:37:03.378 --> 00:37:16.881 But ultimately, I believe that the first step for maybe a local business that wants to begin their SEO journey, a lot of this can be done on your own. 500 00:37:17.221 --> 00:37:20.442 So pull up ChatGPT and ask it. 501 00:37:21.062 --> 00:37:24.663 I'm starting to do SEO for my business, and I'm doing it on my own. 502 00:37:25.573 --> 00:37:37.179 Can you please write me a guide on how to optimize my Google business profile and, and my website so that I can, uh, get started with search engine optimization. 503 00:37:37.740 --> 00:37:37.900 Right. 504 00:37:37.940 --> 00:37:41.221 So that will help you understand it and all the work that goes into it. 505 00:37:41.782 --> 00:37:48.065 And then what you might find out is that after, after a certain amount of time, you'll learn, oh, I don't have the time to do this. 506 00:37:48.465 --> 00:37:51.307 Uh, I'm working on my business or I'm working in my business. 507 00:37:51.327 --> 00:37:51.507 Right. 508 00:37:51.647 --> 00:37:51.867 Right. 509 00:37:52.527 --> 00:37:58.828 So in that case, that's when you would outsource it or find a reputable firm that will help you, that will do it for you. 510 00:38:00.789 --> 00:38:08.170 Don't, I would say, don't consider that to be, hey, you're hands off because they're going to need information from you. 511 00:38:08.190 --> 00:38:09.870 They're going to need approvals from you. 512 00:38:10.110 --> 00:38:12.751 They want to make sure that they're writing in your tone. 513 00:38:13.031 --> 00:38:15.631 They want to make sure to match a reputable firm anyway. 514 00:38:16.011 --> 00:38:18.992 If they're not asking about tone and style guide and stuff like that. 515 00:38:19.512 --> 00:38:20.833 That's a red flag, right? 516 00:38:20.853 --> 00:38:21.534 Yeah. 517 00:38:21.634 --> 00:38:22.214 Out of the gate. 518 00:38:22.274 --> 00:38:24.917 But overall, I would start there. 519 00:38:25.457 --> 00:38:26.478 Start with Googling it. 520 00:38:26.598 --> 00:38:28.380 Start with ChatGPTing it. 521 00:38:29.341 --> 00:38:37.107 Even Grok would give you very great answers because it's well-documented on how to optimize your local business profile. 522 00:38:37.528 --> 00:38:40.971 From there, I would step into a citation aggregator. 523 00:38:42.592 --> 00:38:44.133 There's several on the market. 524 00:38:44.313 --> 00:38:45.655 One of my favorites is Yext. 525 00:38:46.395 --> 00:38:50.218 Um, it used to not be even for a, from a local business. 526 00:38:50.278 --> 00:38:54.640 I actually funny enough that you bring that up because it's like, it slipped my mind. 527 00:38:54.680 --> 00:38:59.283 And I was trying to remember because they were, they came into the market from a listing standpoint. 528 00:38:59.963 --> 00:39:07.848 And I actually went behind the scenes to sit in their sales kind of like department to see how they were basically like funneling their sales. 529 00:39:08.269 --> 00:39:11.090 Cause they were killing it in the market just from a sales standpoint. 530 00:39:11.150 --> 00:39:12.111 And they were like, 531 00:39:12.451 --> 00:39:16.019 benchmark, I think at like $29.99 for like every month. 532 00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:19.125 So small businesses were just coming in by the dozen. 533 00:39:19.987 --> 00:39:20.828 So yes, continue. 534 00:39:21.169 --> 00:39:22.371 You didn't used to like it, but now- 535 00:39:23.007 --> 00:39:32.109 Well, I didn't used to like it because what would happen early on in the days of Yuxt is when you turned off the $29.99 a month, or if you paid yearly, it was maybe $400 a year. 536 00:39:32.189 --> 00:39:32.970 Yeah. 537 00:39:33.550 --> 00:39:35.810 When you turned it off, it was just like Google Ads. 538 00:39:35.890 --> 00:39:37.151 They would take down your citations. 539 00:39:37.211 --> 00:39:37.671 Everything. 540 00:39:37.851 --> 00:39:38.171 Yeah. 541 00:39:38.451 --> 00:39:40.251 Well, now they don't do that, which is great. 542 00:39:40.972 --> 00:39:41.932 You get what you pay for. 543 00:39:42.432 --> 00:39:44.414 And it is, it does more. 544 00:39:44.774 --> 00:39:46.695 It does more than simply citations. 545 00:39:47.076 --> 00:39:53.721 And citations, just for those who are listening, citations is your name, address, phone number, and your website listed on a directory. 546 00:39:54.121 --> 00:39:54.781

It could be Yelp. 547 00:39:54.942 --> 00:40:01.426 It could be something you've never heard of, like brownbook.com or something that you're very familiar with, like Yellow Pages. 548 00:40:01.687 --> 00:40:05.750 Well, you don't get that book anymore, but that book still exists, and it exists online, right? 549 00:40:05.810 --> 00:40:05.970 Yeah. 550 00:40:06.350 --> 00:40:17.174 Um, so getting those citations in place, then the volume of citations you need is very much dependent on the category that you're in the industry that you're in and the competition that you have to beat. 551 00:40:17.774 --> 00:40:24.396 Um, the more citations generally equals the better, but it's, to me, it's all about the local citations. 552 00:40:24.456 --> 00:40:35.240 So your local chamber of commerce, your local business peers citing you on your, on, on their website, that is, is worth 300 yellow book.com, you know? 553 00:40:35.260 --> 00:40:35.420 Yeah. 554 00:40:35.700 --> 00:40:37.300 Yeah, no, I completely agree with you. 555 00:40:37.721 --> 00:40:38.361 That's awesome. 556 00:40:38.421 --> 00:40:50.004 It's kind of like grassroots marketing or guerrilla marketing where you're actually going to your local business chapter and you're working with local businesses to help one another out. 557 00:40:51.064 --> 00:40:52.184 That is SEO. 558 00:40:52.765 --> 00:40:53.525 Yeah, totally. 559 00:40:53.945 --> 00:40:57.526 I wish the Small Business Association would give us resources like this. 560 00:40:57.926 --> 00:40:58.526 They need that. 561 00:40:58.566 --> 00:40:59.586 They need to, right? 562 00:40:59.947 --> 00:41:00.207 Yes. 563 00:41:00.247 --> 00:41:01.167 I'm surprised that they don't. 564 00:41:01.567 --> 00:41:05.408 The SBA needs to move in a better direction when it comes to marketing. 565 00:41:06.400 --> 00:41:13.466 Um, Cody, what do you think is the, um, is the trajectory? 566 00:41:13.546 --> 00:41:22.434 And this is a loaded question because nobody knows with Google, but I love that you talked about how you guys give updated 90 day tracks for each client. 567 00:41:22.834 --> 00:41:32.543 And do you guys do that because of the, um, the, the large changes or the small to medium changes that happen with Google over, over the course of the year? 568 00:41:33.835 --> 00:41:34.375 No, actually. 569 00:41:34.395 --> 00:41:46.380 We don't do that as it relates to any Google updates because, by and large, we are not adversely affected by any Google algorithm updates because we do it the right way from the beginning. 570 00:41:47.120 --> 00:41:55.803 With that said, there are some algorithm updates that we simply don't have control over, like AIOs, that are simply stealing your content and leveraging it. 571 00:41:56.323 --> 00:41:59.286 Uh, it is, it does probably make for a better Google user experience. 572 00:41:59.446 --> 00:42:00.407 So I'll give it to them. 573 00:42:00.527 --> 00:42:01.067 That's fine. 574 00:42:01.427 --> 00:42:03.769 But they are taking your content and using it as a citation. 575 00:42:04.070 --> 00:42:06.852 You don't get that click anymore, but you're, you're visible there. 576 00:42:06.892 --> 00:42:09.434 So it's maybe moving up a little bit in the funnel. 577 00:42:10.074 --> 00:42:15.379 Um, as far as that goes, how do, how do I see it going over the next several years? 578 00:42:15.719 --> 00:42:16.279 I'll tell you this. 579 00:42:17.120 --> 00:42:24.207 Uh, ever since I began doing SEO or learning SEO, it seems like every year someone says SEO is dead. 580 00:42:24.647 --> 00:42:30.592 And here I am 16, 17 years later and SEO continues to make me money, right? 581 00:42:30.732 --> 00:42:39.400 Not just me money, all of our part, we're, we're, we're close to a trillion dollars in attributable, attributable revenue with over the track of 10 years. 582 00:42:39.420 --> 00:42:42.403 I think we're at like 800 and something billion, um, yeah. 583 00:42:42.963 --> 00:42:44.905 It works, but you have to work it. 584 00:42:45.466 --> 00:42:48.649 And the thing is, is you ask the question without giving away my secret sauce. 585 00:42:48.669 --> 00:42:50.010 I'll just give you my secret sauce. 586 00:42:50.491 --> 00:42:51.232 It's very simple. 587 00:42:51.752 --> 00:42:52.793 There is no secret sauce. 588 00:42:53.073 --> 00:42:54.435 It is all hard work. 589 00:42:54.775 --> 00:42:55.356 It's just work. 590 00:42:55.636 --> 00:42:56.677 You have to put in the work. 591 00:42:56.997 --> 00:43:01.642 If you don't have the time to put in the work, you have to pay someone to put in the time to put in that work. 592 00:43:02.270 --> 00:43:02.510 It is. 593 00:43:02.650 --> 00:43:09.273 And I agree with you, but there is a secret sauce when it comes to how does your formula make this great, right? 594 00:43:09.393 --> 00:43:22.017 And it is a formula of how you guys work internally from how your team is built from a cultural and structural standpoint, which then is what translates into the success of each client out the gate. 595 00:43:22.057 --> 00:43:22.198 Right. 596 00:43:23.819 --> 00:43:31.493 There could be another company that launches and does exactly what you do and fail miserably because they don't have that formula of what makes you guys unique. 597 00:43:31.833 --> 00:43:34.458 And it starts from within and it starts from leadership as well. 598 00:43:34.498 --> 00:43:36.902 So I think that that's also really important to call out. 599 00:43:37.198 --> 00:43:39.501 Yeah, it's our CEO, i.e. 600 00:43:39.561 --> 00:43:41.543 me, is an SEO by trade. 601 00:43:42.204 --> 00:43:54.938 I've had to learn a lot about leadership and what CEO equals in the agency world because I started as a SEO, a PPC, and graduated up and up and up. 602 00:43:57.756 --> 00:44:00.137 So there's a lot that needs to be done. 603 00:44:00.157 --> 00:44:12.342 They're all a little bit different, but when it comes to the secret sauce component, I would say maybe our methodology,

which is publicly available to anybody, that... 604 00:44:13.242 --> 00:44:14.323 perhaps that's a part of it. 605 00:44:14.403 --> 00:44:16.885 But to your point, I think a lot of it is just cultural. 606 00:44:17.546 --> 00:44:19.908 Um, we, we are not accustomed to losing. 607 00:44:20.088 --> 00:44:26.574 In fact, um, we hate losing probably more than we love winning because we're just so accustomed to winning. 608 00:44:27.314 --> 00:44:29.816 It's like, Hey, here's another win in the wins channel on Slack. 609 00:44:30.177 --> 00:44:30.877 That's awesome. 610 00:44:31.438 --> 00:44:34.781 We don't have a losses channel at search bloom because it's rare. 611 00:44:35.221 --> 00:44:37.543 Um, and when, when it happens, cause it does, um, 612 00:44:39.814 --> 00:44:45.076 It's a real big blow to not ego, but like what happened here? 613 00:44:45.116 --> 00:44:46.356 Let's do some retrospectives. 614 00:44:46.376 --> 00:44:47.096 Let's analyze. 615 00:44:47.156 --> 00:44:47.416 Yeah. 616 00:44:47.897 --> 00:44:48.417 I like that. 617 00:44:49.097 --> 00:44:49.797 I like that a lot. 618 00:44:50.397 --> 00:44:57.519 Cody, this has been super insightful and very rich in terms of all the details that we dove into. 619 00:44:57.880 --> 00:45:06.482 But before I let you go, I like to do a little bit of a quick hits, which is just fly off some questions, answer them in terms of what first comes to your mind. 620 00:45:07.182 --> 00:45:08.843 Marketing buzzword, you'd love to retire. 621 00:45:10.159 --> 00:45:10.519 Boost. 622 00:45:11.480 --> 00:45:11.960 I want that. 623 00:45:12.080 --> 00:45:13.341 I want that word to die. 624 00:45:13.542 --> 00:45:14.602 I hate it so much. 625 00:45:14.762 --> 00:45:20.927 And I have people that work with, with me on, on like LinkedIn and, and, and, and podcasts and all that stuff. 626 00:45:20.987 --> 00:45:24.170 And, um, the word boost comes up all the time. 627 00:45:24.190 --> 00:45:27.292 I'm like, guys, we have, this is a no, no word because I hate it so much. 628 00:45:27.372 --> 00:45:28.553 It's just been used. 629 00:45:28.933 --> 00:45:29.914 Another one is like crush. 630 00:45:30.174 --> 00:45:31.815 Like we're crushing marketing right now. 631 00:45:31.855 --> 00:45:33.657 And like, come on, what does crush equal? 632 00:45:33.937 --> 00:45:37.920 Let's talk about the real metrics behind that, that word, you know? 633 00:45:38.120 --> 00:45:38.360 Yeah. 634 00:45:38.641 --> 00:45:39.061 I like it. 635 00:45:39.441 --> 00:45:41.823 Favorite SEO win that changed the game for a client? 636 00:45:43.444 --> 00:45:49.269 Um, that one's a difficult one because again, we have a lot of wins, but I'll, I'll tell you what, here's one. 637 00:45:49.569 --> 00:45:57.836 If you search grass seed or lawn seed today, right now, you're going to see a website ranked on the, on the first page of Google that you've never heard of. 638 00:45:58.417 --> 00:46:00.478 The company is called nature seed.com. 639 00:46:00.879 --> 00:46:00.979 Yeah. 640 00:46:00.999 --> 00:46:01.199 Yeah. 641 00:46:01.685 --> 00:46:10.369 To rank for a keyword nationally, internationally at this point, to rank for that keyword, imagine the keyword difficulty on grass seed. 642 00:46:11.189 --> 00:46:19.172 And the SERP that's involved, you've got local pack, you've got ads, you've got PAA, you've got all kinds of different stuff in there. 643 00:46:19.513 --> 00:46:22.374 Well, you're still going to be seeing my partner's link on the homepage. 644 00:46:22.694 --> 00:46:24.755 It took about two years to get them there. 645 00:46:24.775 --> 00:46:24.895 Wow. 646 00:46:25.235 --> 00:46:26.895 I love that they stuck with you for that long. 647 00:46:26.915 --> 00:46:29.116 I mean, kudos to them for like- They're still with us. 648 00:46:29.656 --> 00:46:30.116 Amazing. 649 00:46:30.556 --> 00:46:30.996 Amazing. 650 00:46:31.196 --> 00:46:32.536 Like, I love that. 651 00:46:32.657 --> 00:46:37.718 I mean, just as a client in general, like they should congratulate themselves for not giving up, you know? 652 00:46:38.538 --> 00:46:40.798 One misconception about SEO that drives you crazy? 653 00:46:42.899 --> 00:46:43.979 Hmm. 654 00:46:44.219 --> 00:46:46.419 That it has to take a long time, all the time? 655 00:46:46.639 --> 00:46:47.720 It doesn't, actually. 656 00:46:48.660 --> 00:46:49.180 What can- 657 00:46:50.484 --> 00:46:55.046 be perceived as a long time, it actually could be a very short amount of time. 658 00:46:55.086 --> 00:47:08.471 So like what equals long time, long time might be one to two years to some people, whereas you approach an enterprise or a mid-market level partner or prospect, that is not a long time. 659 00:47:08.891 --> 00:47:14.293 Whereas, you know, you're talking with a small business, a long time is a year, right? 660 00:47:14.473 --> 00:47:15.573 A long time is three months. 661 00:47:17.314 --> 00:47:30.622 With how we do search engine optimization at the local level, you should see a real impact on your business, meaning you should be getting more phone calls, more direction requests if that's the business model that you're in. 662 00:47:31.263 --> 00:47:41.049 You should be getting more form fills within a matter of two months, three months, unless you're in one of those ultra-competitive categories in an ultra-densely populated area. 663 00:47:41.489 --> 00:47:41.729 Yeah. 664 00:47:42.310 --> 00:47:44.091 Best leadership advice you've ever received? 665 00:47:46.911 --> 00:47:49.212 Ah, serve to survive. 666 00:47:49.993 --> 00:47:56.195 And you're going to love this because I didn't get that from anybody but a song. 667 00:47:56.795 --> 00:47:58.616 It came from Lil Wayne, actually. 668 00:47:59.316 --> 00:48:02.998 One of his songs, it just mentions serve to survive. 669 00:48:03.698 --> 00:48:07.340 And another one that kind of goes alongside with it is like Leaders Eat Lasts. 670 00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:17.026 And I know that it kind of conflicts with like, if you're going to help somebody get off of an airplane that's going down, first put your mask on first. 671 00:48:17.086 --> 00:48:20.408 That makes sense, sure, when you're in a life and death situation. 672 00:48:20.908 --> 00:48:26.992 But when you are not, your predominant job as a leader is to serve your people, period. 673 00:48:27.532 --> 00:48:27.672 Yeah. 674 00:48:28.987 --> 00:48:29.427 I love that. 675 00:48:30.028 --> 00:48:30.588 It's true. 676 00:48:30.728 --> 00:48:42.394 I went to that conference and as we all know, Magic Johnson is extremely charming, but he's also very, I think, in terms of what he's done is very aspirational. 677 00:48:42.474 --> 00:48:46.476 And somebody stood up and said, what makes a good entrepreneur? 678 00:48:46.956 --> 00:48:48.998 And he said, giving your clients 150%. 679 00:48:50.238 --> 00:48:55.001 He said, you will never survive if you give them just what the scope of work was to deliver. 680 00:48:55.681 --> 00:48:57.382 So I want to serve to survive. 681 00:48:58.330 --> 00:49:03.713 constantly, you know, our CFO will say, hey, you lost money on this engagement. 682 00:49:04.093 --> 00:49:05.674 You lost money on this engagement. 683 00:49:05.694 --> 00:49:06.415 You lost money here. 684 00:49:06.895 --> 00:49:10.617 Well, we had to in order for the partnership to really work. 685 00:49:11.134 --> 00:49:11.374 Yeah. 686 00:49:11.954 --> 00:49:12.414 I love that. 687 00:49:12.534 --> 00:49:21.398 Like I said, I mean, you guys are an internal people first and you're definitely an external, um, you know, you're putting your clients first on all levels, which I, I really love. 688 00:49:21.618 --> 00:49:22.718 So thank you for that. 689 00:49:23.218 --> 00:49:24.279 Cody, this has been great. 690 00:49:24.339 --> 00:49:28.660 We'll link your website and we'll link your LinkedIn so that people can connect with you. 691 00:49:28.940 --> 00:49:31.601 Um, you know, post this, uh, this podcast. 692 00:49:31.881 --> 00:49:32.782 Awesome. 693 00:49:33.242 --> 00:49:34.002 Well, it's been my pleasure. 694 00:49:45.998 --> 00:49:46.141 Bye.