บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Creating Category-Defining Brands with Sarah Jahnke

times sometimes when there's a celebrity involved in a brand, they are sort of just like a celebrity figurehead. 15 00:03:07.100 --> 00:03:11.480 The face. They're not the face. Yeah... except for they're not really, like, part of the brand. But it seems like she... 16 00:03:11.580 --> 00:03:22.560 Sounds like she seems to be kind of involved in, like, product ideation and working with you guys on that side of things. What, what is her involvement in kind of the product build-out? Absolutely. 17 00:03:22.600 --> 00:03:34.420 Courteney's so hands-on. She literally made the candle vessel prototype herself on a pottery wheel back when I first met her. Um, and really she's this cre- the creative visionary for the brand. 18 00:03:34.500 --> 00:03:42.400 So our bottles, you know, they're a square shape. No one had done that before, and it was inspired by her favorite olive oil. 19 00:03:42.460 --> 00:03:52.420 And similar, this, it, the bottles read as black, but you can kinda see in the light on my screen they're actually a really dark green, and this color was, um, inspired by the paint in her living room. 20 00:03:52.520 --> 00:03:58.440 I remember we had to scour, uh, for a paint chip because it was from a very niche paint shop in England. 21 00:03:58.600 --> 00:04:12.160 [laughs] So I had to send that into our factory, but this dark green color actually worked really well for being 100% post-consumer recycled material because it's a dark color and it's easier to, to be able to do that with dark colors. 22 00:04:12.860 --> 00:04:23.260 Um, but yeah, Courteney inspired the color, the shape, the candle vessel, as I mentioned. Every single fragrance is from her nose to the perfumer's ears. 23 00:04:23.740 --> 00:04:34.490 It's, um, CC, as, which is our number one hero fragrance, is actually her personal fragrance that she used to wear that we now have put into these products. Um- That's cool... 24 00:04:34.520 --> 00:04:46.580 but she is so involved, and we're so lucky because having been in the beauty industry, there's not that there's a playbook, but there are certain rules and the, and, and things that are like, well, of course it has to be this way. 25 00:04:47.000 --> 00:04:57.580 And with Courteney, she really pushes the limits. The fact that we have seven different fragrances, but all of our packaging looks the same, that's very intentional, and that's really Courteney pushing us to do that. 26 00:04:58.400 --> 00:05:09.300 Mm-hmm. One of the things this is making me wonder, s- um, uh, not necessarily related to the brand, but, like, from an investment perspective, is this bringing in investors? 27 00:05:09.880 --> 00:05:26.700 I assume there's maybe, like, typical beauty investors, and then, but based on, like, all the work that you're doing around, you know, the materials and the clean beauty side of things, are you bringing in investors that are interested in sort of, like, clean beauty or environmental aspects of the brand? 28 00:05:26.800

--> 00:05:32.880 Like, I feel like that's such a interesting angle for a fragrance-based company. 29 00:05:33.840 --> 00:05:43.280 Well, in terms of who, uh, is invested in Homecourt, it's mostly been friends and family, uh, of Courteney, m- myself, and the family office. Um- Mm-hmm... 30 00:05:43.300 --> 00:05:51.480 but so our only institutional capital is from Cult Capital, which was our Series A lead. They are- Mm... experts in the beauty industry. 31 00:05:51.920 --> 00:05:59.480 They were the, um, the lead investors in Supergoop w- and helped them, um, grow- Oh... and exit to Blackstone in 2021. 32 00:05:59.960 --> 00:06:12.724 Um, and then their, another portfolio company of theirs is Lawless Beauty, which is a clean beauty brand as well. So I think that it's not that we have investors that, um, require-... things to be clean or sustainable. 33 00:06:12.744 --> 00:06:24.764 But within the friends and family world, and then with- within cult who are experts in this category, they know that being clean, non-toxic, being sustainable sets you apart, and consumers want that and trust that. 34 00:06:24.774 --> 00:06:33.544 And so when we were developing the brand, honestly, it was, it was table stakes. I, like Courtney and I never even considered not being clean or not being sustainable. 35 00:06:33.624 --> 00:06:47.624 I think we had the opportunity to maybe be 20% PCR versus 100%, but we were like, "Why not max it out?" So we did. I love this story too, which I think is also a very interesting trajectory. 36 00:06:47.744 --> 00:06:55.944 So like, um, how, how did you even, I guess like how did you even know to like connect with the family office? How did you know this... 37 00:06:56.024 --> 00:07:06.324 Like, did you know this was a route, like after working in management consulting that like you could go and launch a company or co-found a brand? Like, how did you come into that? 38 00:07:08.064 --> 00:07:19.204 So that's a great question, and I definitely, when you look back, all of the dots connect on how, how you end up where you end up. But, um, you know, go- let's start back in my early career. 39 00:07:19.264 --> 00:07:28.864 In management consulting, it's a great place to learn just how to be professional, right? You're learning about meetings, and being on time, and how projects are managed, and... 40 00:07:28.904 --> 00:07:41.264 But I w- I never felt very passionate, um, about what I was working on at PWC, and so that's why when I went to business school, I really opened myself up to what, what's gonna make me excited to get out of bed in the day and, and go to work? 41 00:07:41.294 --> 00:07:49.964 And it, and that's when I knew, uh, I really got involved in the beauty industry. Every class I took at Booth, I was applying the beauty industry to. 42 00:07:50.214 --> 00:08:01.704 And even I had an internship while there where I was, um, sourcing deals from Hyde Park Angels, which is a very active angel investment fund in the Midwest,

and I was looking at beauty and consumer deals. 43 00:08:01.824 --> 00:08:13.964 So, um, through my time at business school, I did really learn about the world of investing, um, what a family office was. I also, again, was really diving deep into retail beauty and luxury. 44 00:08:14.924 --> 00:08:28.084 And so I was familiar with how important networking is for opportunities like this. But being the traditional, you know, risk-averse person that I was at the time, I said, "I have student loans for my MBA. 45 00:08:28.184 --> 00:08:35.264 I gotta go get a big corporate job." And I still didn't really feel like I knew enough about the beauty industry either to go start my own thing. 46 00:08:35.404 --> 00:08:41.064 So that's why I went to L'Oréal, because I knew I was going to learn so much about the industry. 47 00:08:41.604 --> 00:08:57.624 L'Oréal is still, to this day, the largest beauty company in the world, and I was excited about the opportunity to definitely start in luxury, but potentially go global with them or try their other consumer products, uh, and, uh, active and professional products divisions. 48 00:08:58.144 --> 00:09:05.334 So all of that to say, the networking, the, the first seed that was planted in my life was I wanna work on something I'm passionate about. 49 00:09:05.834 --> 00:09:14.504 The second seed in my life was, you know, learning about the importance of networking, entrepreneurship and investing, which is what I learned in business school. 50 00:09:14.544 --> 00:09:24.694 And then I was, you know, back in big corporate and beauty at L'Oréal. So how did then I, um, decide to go earlier stage and, and reach out to that family office? 51 00:09:24.824 --> 00:09:37.904 Well, having fallen in love with the beauty industry and knowing that's where I wanted to start my career, um, or stay in my career, after five years at L'Oréal, I felt like I reached my, like a plateau. 52 00:09:38.484 --> 00:09:53.644 Obviously, L'Oréal's still an amazing place with a lot of different career paths, but I think too, in 2020, everyone was really reflecting about what would make them happy, and I really missed some of the earlier stage things I had been exposed to in business school. 53 00:09:54.244 --> 00:10:04.644 Something I didn't mention actually is I did an entrepreneurship accelerator for a, a shaving product idea that I had, and so it was a little bit of a taste of entrepreneurship. 54 00:10:04.664 --> 00:10:10.804 We had to do pitch competitions, and I even filed a provisional patent on my idea at the time. Whoa. 55 00:10:10.844 --> 00:10:24.724 So all, you know, that was always like in the back of my mind, but that always felt like a product and not a brand, so I never really went after it. But all that to say, it's 2020, I wanna get out of New York. 56 00:10:25.544 --> 00:10:37.284 I'm a little frustrated at, at, at this career point at L'Oréal, and I'm like, "How do I get back to early stage?" And that's when I just started networking again, and in the pandemic it was quite easy to network. 57 00:10:37.324 --> 00:10:45.204 You didn't have to sneak out of the office, go to a doctor's appointment. You just had to hop on one Zoom and hop off on another. Yeah. So 58 00:10:46.404 --> 00:10:53.554 I think too, again, in the pandemic, people were really open to talking and connecting and s- checking in, seeing how you were. So it was a business school friend... 59 00:10:53.684 --> 00:10:57.574 Sorry, long-winded way to get back to your original question, but- That's okay... 60 00:10:57.604 --> 00:11:07.804 it was a business school friend who reached out to me actually for a, a introduction request, and he said, "By the way, how, what are you up to? What are you looking for?" 61 00:11:07.854 --> 00:11:15.724 And I said, "Well, I'm, you know, looking to stay in beauty, but do something earlier stage. Um, and w- if you see anything, will you keep me in mind?" 62 00:11:17.124 --> 00:11:24.124 About a month later, I get an email from him, and he said, "Hey, I got th- I got this email on this list serve I'm on. This sounds like you." 63 00:11:24.684 --> 00:11:39.824 And it said, "Seeking a CEO and co-founder, uh, for a celebrity-backed fragrance brand. Must have management consulting, MBA, and fragrance brand management." And that was literally my resume. 64 00:11:39.923 --> 00:11:50.964 [laughs] Like it's literally you. [laughs] I said, "Do you..." I was like, "Yes, that does sound like me." So I put the name in, in the h- my name in the hat. This was in June 2020. 65 00:11:51.884 --> 00:11:57.484 I had my first call with someone from the family office, and by the way, they did not tell me who the celebrity was. 66 00:11:57.584 --> 00:12:19.928 So I ended up having three calls, one a month, uh, with each partner at the family office, um, and really just explaining to them my experience in all of the things I just talked about, specifically fragrance, how you would launch a brand, and I knew they were interested in candles specifically, so we did some- In my interviews, we were talking about candles. 67 00:12:20.668 --> 00:12:34.208 Um, and then right before Labor Day 2020, uh, they said, "Okay. The celebrity is Courtney Cox, and she wants to meet you, uh, like, on Monday." And I was like, "Oh, wow." Wow. "This is really re- becoming real." 68 00:12:34.348 --> 00:12:51.188 Um, by the way, I should mention, at the time when I was networking just that summer in COVID, still working remotely for L'Oréal, um, and was exploring other opportunities in LA, I al- I also had this pull to LA, so that was another thing happening. 69 00:12:51.608 --> 00:13:04.048 But, um, so I m- I meet Courtney on Zoom. Uh, I remember burning a candle in the background as kind of a good luck- [laughs]... for my view- Love it... showing that I, I am a candle consumer. 70 00:13:04.168 --> 00:13:16.128 And, um, it was her and not anyone from the family office anymore. It was, like, her, her, um, manager and

team, and we had a great interview, I think. 71 00:13:16.248 --> 00:13:30.188 I remember one thing that happened that was kind of funny looking back is I was wearing kind of a bright colored, uh, shirt, and sh- at one point when I was asking her about her style and t- aesthetics for this brand, she's like, "Well, I hate bright colors." 72 00:13:30.428 --> 00:13:40.668 [laughs] Oh, no. And I said, "Oh, I don't know if I'm gonna get, get the job," but- [laughs]... we, it wasn't a problem. Um- [laughs]... but we really hit it off, and I was excited to meet her. 73 00:13:40.708 --> 00:13:54.648 I could see how passionate she was about fragrance, about the idea of making candles, and I was thrilled when about a week later, so right after Labor Day 2020, the family office called and said, "We'd like to offer you this position." 74 00:13:55.848 --> 00:13:59.278 And then reality hit. I, it was- Mm... 75 00:13:59.328 --> 00:14:11.548 I was so excited and thrilled, but, and I couldn't believe this was an opportunity, but I w- then it became a little scary because I had always been in these more secure career paths of management consulting and big corporate. 76 00:14:12.268 --> 00:14:25.837 Um, and so I did some... I didn't say yes right away. I did some exploring and soul-searching. I talked with other people I knew in the entrepreneurship world, and I had a friend from PwC who had started his own company, 77 00:14:26.788 --> 00:14:29.728 and he had said, "Where are you going to learn more?" 78 00:14:30.988 --> 00:14:43.988 And that really stuck out to me, 'cause while I had learned so much at L'Oréal, at the time, I had felt like I was kinda hitting that plateau, and the moves they were making to get me out to LA or switch brands weren't happening on my timeline. 79 00:14:44.468 --> 00:14:49.008 So I said, "Well, I'm absolutely gonna learn more doing a startup." 80 00:14:49.438 --> 00:15:02.928 And, you know, with Courtney involved, I knew it was gonna be an opportunity of a lifetime that no matter what happens, even if we fail, it's, I will learn. Um, and so that's what made me take the leap. 81 00:15:04.508 --> 00:15:14.608 I love that so much, and thank you for providing so much context and story. It's so fun to watch, like, somebody's just journey from point A to point B. 82 00:15:14.718 --> 00:15:24.108 And someone that's looking at you maybe wanting to do something similar, afraid to leave their corporate job, can listen to your story and feel excited that maybe the opportunity's out there for them. 83 00:15:24.568 --> 00:15:36.708 I'm curious, w- like, what was the most surprising thing going from these, like, yeah, these, like, big companies that are very stable and just, like, corporate, right? 84 00:15:36.788 --> 00:15:39.708 Like, the, there's, like, so many annoying things about corporate too. 85 00:15:40.298 --> 00:15:52.138 But maybe what was, like, something surprising whenever you actually, like, got into it and started putting together the team for Homecourt, or just any of the, any learnings you had or any surprising things- Yeah... 86 00:15:52.138 --> 00:16:01.108 that you had? Well, one thing I never had to worry about at L'Oréal, while, what, you know, while I did own a P&L, I did not have to worry about cash and cash flow. 87 00:16:01.288 --> 00:16:12.428 That was not my responsibility, and as a big company, there are whole teams that do that, right? Yeah. That's the number one priority as an entrepreneur is, and thing that keeps people up at night, is cash. 88 00:16:13.068 --> 00:16:23.888 How much cash is coming in? How much cash is going out? Do I need debt? Do I need investment? Um, i- is the retailer gonna pay the PO on time? What are my terms with the suppliers? 89 00:16:23.928 --> 00:16:35.197 Like, cash management is key, and that's actually something I really love to talk with other, um, entrepreneurs about. Um, I want every entrepreneur and founder to know their numbers. 90 00:16:35.908 --> 00:16:46.468 Even if they're the creative founder, um, it's so important to know the numbers and know the cash that goes in and out of your accounts, especially- Mm-hmm... especially in the early stages. 91 00:16:46.488 --> 00:16:58.968 And so that's something I'm really passionate about, helping other entrepreneurs, especially women, understand and, um, and learn about, 'cause cash is how you live or die in a- Yeah [laughs]... in a business. Mm-hmm. 92 00:17:00.068 --> 00:17:00.398 Could not agree more. 93 00:17:00.428 --> 00:17:13.318 I was gonna say, I, I was just gonna say, I mean, I, the, even if you're, like, the head of product or, like, the CTO, like, every major feature that you're shipping is related to are the customers going to adopt to this? 94 00:17:13.388 --> 00:17:22.868 Is this gonna, like, connect to our bottom line? Like, I feel like every major decision I've been making, uh, as a tech founder is how does this affect my bottom line? Yes. 95 00:17:22.928 --> 00:17:31.648 And this is, like, that's the num- I totally agree. It's, like, the number one thing to, to understand of, like- Mm-hmm... how this affects our business. Yeah. 96 00:17:31.708 --> 00:17:40.018 I should- And even when you get into the nitty-gritty, like if... So my favorite report is the 13-week rolling cash forecast, and then you- Right... 97 00:17:40.028 --> 00:17:46.568 get into the weeds and you go, "Wait, why did this company, this software, have, like, a auto-debit into my bank account?" 98 00:17:46.608 --> 00:17:56.348 Like, as soo- especially when you're fundraising, you gotta cut the cord of anyone who has auto-debit, put everything on a credit card or net 30, you know, invoice even better. 99 00:17:56.388 --> 00:18:03.268 It's just, like, you set up all these automations and things to make life easier, but no, with cash it's, like, y- as manual as possible. 100 00:18:03.468 --> 00:18:14.548 [laughs] Yeah, I was just gonna ask, um, what, d- do you use, like, a certain tool for cash

management and reporting? Like, do you use, like, Rho or, like, any other fintech software? 101 00:18:14.608 --> 00:18:20.628 Or are you, like, just doing exports and, like, it seems like you're very hands-on, so I'm curious, like, what tools you use. Yes. 102 00:18:20.648 --> 00:18:32.872 Well, things have changed now five years in, and I did do a series A last year and was able to hire a director of finance and a COO. But- At the beginning, we, um, we first started with Rho as our bank and also Ramp. 103 00:18:33.572 --> 00:18:41.732 Um, we also worked very closely with Settle for a line of capital as well as we actually used it as our bill pay system. 104 00:18:41.852 --> 00:18:54.952 Um, and then, um, I was the one building the 13-week cash flow forecast in Excel, and it was very manual. I'm sure that now with AI there are tools that could do that for me. I just at the time built it. 105 00:18:54.992 --> 00:19:05.962 And again, I like to encourage people, even if they're gonna use AI, to understand the ins and outs so they can check the work and, and feel empowered. But, um, post- Yeah... 106 00:19:05.992 --> 00:19:15.532 leading up to the Series A, we were scaling so fast. We were doubling the business every year. As, as you know, we all had less than five full-time employees, including myself. 107 00:19:15.672 --> 00:19:22.612 I was wearing every C-suite hat, so I was CFO, I was controller, I was everything, CMO, everything. 108 00:19:23.552 --> 00:19:36.292 My main reason to raise money was I need to get a team in place because, an executive team in place, and 'cause we wanna scale. We wanna be a global household name. We're on our way, but I can't, I can't do it all. 109 00:19:36.892 --> 00:19:46.332 And we also knew that our Excel spreadsheets, or really Google Sheets, was not going to continue to be able to let us scale and sell millions and millions of units. 110 00:19:46.372 --> 00:19:52.852 So for the beauty industry especially, NetSuite is still the leader in ERP systems. 111 00:19:52.872 --> 00:20:05.472 And yes, it's expensive, and yes, it's complicated, but we're not thinking about now, we're thinking about when we're a nine-figure brand, right? And when we're- Yeah... um, if we're acquired one day, you know, 112 00:20:06.392 --> 00:20:17.242 if L'Oréal wants to buy us, let's say, we're gonna need NetSuite anyways. So why not set up the infrastructure now and the, the team and infrastructure now to contin- to allow us to continue to scale? 113 00:20:17.812 --> 00:20:30.252 So one of the first things I did with the Series A that closed last August is hired the COO, hired the director of finance, um, signed the contract with a NetSuite implementation firm. 114 00:20:30.972 --> 00:20:44.592 Um, and we- I'm happy to report we successfully implemented this in Ju- uh, June 1. So that's our new- Love it... our new system. We also did move our banking to Chase. Um, again, once you 115 00:20:45.612 --> 00:20:54.892 have institutional funding, more opportunities, more banks and things open up. So we did do a lot of overhaul post-fundraise. Yeah. You get a... 116 00:20:54.992 --> 00:21:06.492 I like the, the scrappy startup to, uh, feeling more like an established brand. It's like a... It's a very good feeling. [laughs] Yes. Yes. [laughs] But I think there's a lesson, too, in that. 117 00:21:06.512 --> 00:21:11.672 Like, you know, you, you, you had this opportunity to, to co-found with a celebrity. 118 00:21:11.772 --> 00:21:28.212 And so instead of being like guaranteed success, let's just put all of our eggs and spend all of our cash and like act like we're already, you know, this nine-figure whatever brand, you were really scrappy at the beginning and proved out the model before. 119 00:21:28.292 --> 00:21:39.181 Now you're investing for the long haul. Yes. And, but you knew exactly what to invest for and what to double down on because you were so involved from the very beginning in every single piece of it. Mm-hmm. 120 00:21:39.222 --> 00:21:48.292 And like did things manually so that you knew... It's so, so smart. Like- Thank you. Uh-huh... kudos to you. [laughs] Thank you. I, I really appreciate that. 121 00:21:48.332 --> 00:21:56.892 I mean, I, I think, um, going back to like the crossroads of even, "Okay, I got this opportunity. Do I take it or do I stay at L'Oréal?" 'Cause it was scary. 122 00:21:56.932 --> 00:22:08.241 And again, I mentioned how my friend said, "Where are you going to learn more?" But another thing that really excited me about the opportunity was the ability to define a new category. Because one of the- Mm... 123 00:22:08.292 --> 00:22:20.832 other things that happened before I officially signed up and said, "Yes, I'll, I'll move to LA and, and do this," was Courtney and I started to just on the side brainstorm a little bit more about the brand and her vision. 124 00:22:20.872 --> 00:22:30.052 And I, and I realized and remembered, wait a second, she was Monica on Friends, and Monica is a notorious clean freak. 125 00:22:30.772 --> 00:22:38.262 And having been in the fragrance industry for five years at that point, I knew that it was becoming the fastest-growing beauty category. 126 00:22:38.722 --> 00:22:49.632 Quick tangent, but by the way, when I was in fragrance at L'Oréal, sometimes I was bummed that I wasn't on makeup and color and hair or skin because those were products that I was like more excited about. 127 00:22:50.132 --> 00:23:02.852 But little did I know that fragrance was going, going to become the fastest-growing beauty category, and still is today. And, um, also had this opportunity to run a fra- and define and create a fragrance brand. 128 00:23:02.932 --> 00:23:16.492 So every, again, all of the dots connect. But, um, so when I met Courtney, started talking to her, I realized the connection with Monica. I realized she truly is like Monica and is a clean freak herself. 129 00:23:17.052 --> 00:23:25.132 And I knew that the fragrance

world was growing, and it was the prestige end of the market, uh, driving the growth. 130 00:23:25.212 --> 00:23:31.412 So that, to me, all of those consumer insights, market insights, Courtney insights, I said, "Hold on a second. 131 00:23:32.012 --> 00:23:42.822 We should definitely con- make candles, but why not elevate everyday commoditized cleaning products and elevate them with a luxury beauty and fragrance philosophy? 132 00:23:43.172 --> 00:23:50.492 And Courtney is the perfect celebrity founder to do this with." So that's really how the idea for Homecourt was born. 133 00:23:50.552 --> 00:24:06.112 And we, um, we, I ki- I kind of pitched that back to them as I was negotiating before I definitely, you know, signed my paper and put my notice in at L'Oréal, 'cause I wanted to make sure I was gonna feel passionate about this category that we were defining. 134 00:24:06.142 --> 00:24:15.702 And, and it's, you know, that's that... There's so many once in a lifetime opportunities here. Founding with a celebrity, defining a new category- Yeah... with something that's never been done before. 135 00:24:16.372 --> 00:24:26.982 Um, so that's what really, again, made me, made me take the leap. [clears throat] It truly is a new category. Like, and even your products are so beautiful and stunning. Oh, thank you. 136 00:24:26.992 --> 00:24:34.112 And when you think of like cleaning products, you don't, you don't think of it looking that beautiful, and yet yours do. 137 00:24:34.152 --> 00:24:48.420 And so it's very exciting that you, I m- I mean, yeah, like completely created a new category and at the price point that is accessible to so many people as well. Mm-hmm. Thank you. 138 00:24:48.540 --> 00:25:00.300 Um, I have a lot of fun stories about, like, how we came up with the packaging and stuff. It's, it's crazy that that was five years ago now, but it, it's been a, it's been a fast journey. But we still, um, 139 00:25:01.400 --> 00:25:09.860 you know, we're s- we haven't strayed from what we originally started, so... [clears throat] So you had five people on your team full-time, and n- and you just made some hires. So how big is your team now? 140 00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:22.400 12 full-time employees. 12 full-time? Mm-hmm. Okay. Still, that's small for- It's small for what we're doing... like the revenue and- Yeah... super impressive to be... You're running pretty lean still. 141 00:25:22.660 --> 00:25:31.430 [chuckles] Thank you. Yes. We, um, we are. [laughs] And we're gonna be doing some w- we call it workforce planning at the end of July. 142 00:25:31.840 --> 00:25:42.260 One another, um, hire, this is a fractional hire, but one of the best hires I made after, um, the Series A was a fractional chief people officer because- Mm... 143 00:25:42.730 --> 00:26:00.400 org design, uh, how we recruit internal branding culture, all of that is so important, and, um, that has been life-changing for me, just to have somebody focused just on people, um, and have that experience be great, um, and recruiting everything. 144 00:26:00.560 --> 00:26:12.940 Um, so I really recommend that too to founders. Um, I... If I could do it over, I might have even started c- having them consult earlier, but, um, one, you know, one step at a time. [chuckles] I love that. 145 00:26:13.080 --> 00:26:35.590 I come from the mental health space, like, that's where I live and breathe every single day, and that, those team dynamics and making sure that everyone is healthy, and I love that you're investing in that 'cause it is so important, and something, you know, Katie and I talk about as friends and as, like, founders of our separate companies is, is really just how hard it is, and how- Yeah... 146 00:26:35.600 --> 00:26:45.180 sometimes you're moving so fast, and you have to wear multiple hats, and it is all hands on deck. Like, a- and, and it can get stressful. 147 00:26:45.350 --> 00:26:54.719 And so the fact that you're investing in your team and bringing this person on to help you manage all of that, like, it's great. Like, I... What... 148 00:26:54.880 --> 00:27:04.140 So what do you think in terms of, so when you're looking at your team and you're looking at, like, what's next for Homecourt, like, what would you say? What's next, I guess, is the question. 149 00:27:04.850 --> 00:27:16.660 [chuckles] Well, my most recent hire was a VP of marketing, our first ever VP of marketing. So now the marketing team officially has two people, [chuckles] our employee number one, and now this VP of marketing. 150 00:27:16.760 --> 00:27:28.520 Um, we are gonna be... We are recruiting currently for a senior manager of e-commerce role, D2C and Amazon. Uh, D2C's our number one channel, with Amazon growing the fastest right behind it. 151 00:27:29.120 --> 00:27:41.080 Um, so we need some extra attention there. Uh, we typically kept, had kept that outsourced. But, you know, we have set up with our innovation, um, and all of our product categories... 152 00:27:41.220 --> 00:27:51.080 By the way, we started with just home, um, and air, so surface cleaner, hand wash, candles, for example. Now we also have body and laundry products. 153 00:27:51.120 --> 00:28:01.840 So we're going through right now a, a brand refresh internally just to make sure that, you know, we can ta- how do we talk about how all of these categories and how they tie together. 154 00:28:01.940 --> 00:28:14.120 Um, and when I zoom out, I really think of Homecourt as a fragrance brand that happens to play in all these categories. So anyways, all this to say, we've done a lot. We've launched a lot. We've grown a lot. 155 00:28:14.140 --> 00:28:21.660 We're in a few channels. Now it's all about scaling within what we already have versus creating something new, and getting awareness and the word out there. 156 00:28:21.840 --> 00:28:33.940 So when it comes to what we're gonna be investing in next, it's really within marketing. Again, for, uh, last six months after the

fundraise, we were on people and infrastructure and ops and finance. 157 00:28:34.380 --> 00:28:43.000 Now that's all set up. We're ready to rock and roll, pour the fuel on the fire with marketing, and try some other, some new marketing things we haven't been able to do. 158 00:28:43.040 --> 00:28:53.010 We've tr- we've traditionally stuck to paid because you can track the ROI on that, right, and the metrics, but that only gets you so far. What can we be doing offline? 159 00:28:53.070 --> 00:29:01.370 What can we be doing with the community outside of Courtney, um, to really keep the word, uh, out there and growing? 160 00:29:01.620 --> 00:29:11.100 Because what we do know, and I think you guys know this, but we have a, an amazing customer repeat rate. It's almost 50%. Um, and- Wow. So good. That's huge... 161 00:29:11.900 --> 00:29:19.660 refills, refills have become nearly a third of our online business, not even including subscription. So what does that say? That, you know, that's how... 162 00:29:19.780 --> 00:29:28.160 That really speaks to our product quality and our amazing fragrances. And so once she's h- somebody comes into the brand, they're hooked. 163 00:29:28.200 --> 00:29:38.940 They wanna keep coming back, and that means it's time to invest now in awareness so that more people keep coming to the brand. [clears throat] I was gonna ask about, like, durability. 164 00:29:39.060 --> 00:29:50.650 So, like, it seems like this is kind of where you are right now. Like, you did product, you brought it to market, you prototyped, brought it to market, you bought... You have brand loyalty, it sounds like. Mm-hmm. 165 00:29:50.650 --> 00:29:56.150 And now it sounds like now it's, like, durability. Like, how do we build to, to last now? Because it sounds like- Yes... 166 00:29:56.150 --> 00:30:02.120 you've really kind of hit the first kind of couple important benchmarks, which is hard to do in itself. 167 00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:14.700 And now if, if you get to this point, [chuckles] it's like, how do we stay as kind of one of the incumbents in the space? Yes. I call... We internally, we, uh, we call it the 100/100 plan. 168 00:30:15.280 --> 00:30:27.250 How do we grow to be a, um, a nine-figure brand at, at minimum, while also being in, being a brand that will endure and be around in 100 years? Mm. I love that. 169 00:30:27.250 --> 00:30:38.380 'Cause there's no shortcuts if you wanna be around and have a brand outlast all of us here. Yeah. So true. Great, great mentality. What do you, um... 170 00:30:38.600 --> 00:30:50.340 What is some, like, advice that you have if somebody wanted to get into the consumer product space, um, like, what is some advice that you would give to maybe another founder or somebody else that's kind of exploring ideas? 171 00:30:50.360 --> 00:31:01.956 Do you have any kind of like- I don't know, quick advice or a long-standing advice that might be helpful for somebody? I think it's so important to be a student of the

industry. So 172 00:31:02.896 --> 00:31:14.896 I mentioned in business school is really when I had that pivot into, um, beauty. And so again, I was a consumer of beauty, and I knew I was interested in it, but I didn't... I wa- I never worked in beauty. 173 00:31:15.296 --> 00:31:29.736 So while I was in business school, I signed up for all industry newsletters, CEW, um, Beauty Independent, Beauty Matter, WWD. I got really involved in the industry just knowing what was going on, who was who. 174 00:31:30.556 --> 00:31:40.476 Um, when I graduated from Booth, this was about 10 years ago, like last month, which is crazy. So it was 2016 I graduated from the full-time program. 175 00:31:40.536 --> 00:31:53.906 I knew I was going to go to L'Oréal, but I mentioned I had that shaving product idea still in the back of my mind. So, um, I actually went to Cosmoprof, which is happening in a couple days in Vegas, and I... 176 00:31:54.126 --> 00:32:05.496 Um, it's actually really funny. I think the tickets are, like, $200, but I remember at the time 10 years ago, having student debt, I was like, "I can't afford that." [laughs] So I, um, I 177 00:32:06.496 --> 00:32:17.576 pre- not pretended, but I, like, pitched myself as press for my university business school's, like, newsletter, and I got a free pass- Right... my friend and I. So we went to Vegas. 178 00:32:18.696 --> 00:32:30.226 We stayed at the Luxor, which is that crazy pyramid hotel that was very cheap- Yeah... um, 'cause we couldn't afford the, um, the Mandalay Bay. [laughs] And, um, I... 179 00:32:30.376 --> 00:32:40.716 Sorry, this is another tangent, but it was July in Vegas in a glass pyramid, and it wa- the air conditioning wasn't working, and it was just disgusting. But we were so excited to be there. 180 00:32:40.756 --> 00:32:52.936 [laughs] We went to Cosmoprof, hit the pavement, and we were, like, so excited. We met with all of the contract manufacturers. We met with, at the time, the founders of Youth To The People were there. Um, 181 00:32:53.876 --> 00:33:04.436 this is, like, when they were first starting, and I remember meeting them and talking to them. Um, we just, like, networked, and we met a few wipe manufacturers 'cause my product had something to do with a wipe. So we... 182 00:33:04.476 --> 00:33:11.736 And I just got the lay of the land. And when I got to L'Oréal a month later, they were like, "What did you do this summer?" I was like, "Oh, I went to Cosmoprof." And they were like, "What?" 183 00:33:12.336 --> 00:33:22.296 Um, but again, I was a student of the industry, and actually some of the f- um, contract manufacturers were, that were at Cosmoprof, I ended up calling up when I was starting Homecourt. 184 00:33:22.896 --> 00:33:34.636 So for someone just starting, let's say you're in food and consumer, like, go to Expo West. Mm. Sign up for BevNET. Just be a student of the industry. You're gonna meet people through it, and you're gonna... 185 00:33:34.756 --> 00:33:45.556 Once you're in the industry, you'd go to those things anyways. So s- don't wait to start. Just get in the door. And, you know, even now as an entrepreneur, it, it's very busy, right? It's... 186 00:33:45.596 --> 00:33:54.596 We have s- we're wearing all the hats, but I still prioritize going to conferences. I go to the WWD Summit. I go to the Beauty Independent C-Suite Summit. 187 00:33:54.636 --> 00:34:04.296 Um, I even went to Dealmakers Summit last year, and that was great because I was fundraising, and I was one of the only brands there because brands sometimes don't feel like they have the time. 188 00:34:04.386 --> 00:34:12.816 And you do have to prioritize because not every event is worth it, but it, it's like, it... You're, that's where you're gonna learn and know what's going on. 189 00:34:12.876 --> 00:34:26.966 And when it comes to fun- going back to, like, fundraising or just also what the white space is, how are you gonna s- know what the white space is or what the, um, multiples are or who's investing in what if you're not engaged in all of those things? 190 00:34:28.316 --> 00:34:34.966 That's such good advice, and I think it kinda comes back to what you were saying with your friend giving you this, like, wake-up moment of, like, where are you learning? Yeah. 191 00:34:34.996 --> 00:34:40.896 It seems like you're a lifelong learner, and that through line has just, like, stayed, remained true with everything that you do. 192 00:34:40.916 --> 00:34:49.536 And I, I do think it's s- such good advice that, like, be curious, explore, get on the newsletter list, go to the conferences, network. 193 00:34:49.636 --> 00:34:57.756 Don't be afraid to ask someone for advice or to, like, you know, just say, "I'm curious," like, "Can we get on a discovery call?" Um, I'm- Yeah... 194 00:34:57.796 --> 00:35:04.596 I'm always shocked with the number of people that say yes to that because they're- Yeah, no... just willing to help you. Yeah. Um, so that's really good advice. 195 00:35:04.816 --> 00:35:22.876 My final question for you, given that I'm in the wellness, mental wellness space, um, what do you do as a busy founder and someone that has, like, a really big job and, you know, is still in the startup phase and, and everything else, uh, um, what do you do for yourself? 196 00:35:23.036 --> 00:35:37.216 Like, what do you do to refill your cup? I love that question. Um, so when I was first starting, the first thing I did, I did indulge in a facial and a massage once a month because- I love that. Oh... 197 00:35:37.316 --> 00:35:40.596 I needed, I needed that. So nice. [laughs] So I have a... I went to Hayday and then now. 198 00:35:41.656 --> 00:35:51.296 Um, and then I really miss working out, and I would, like, go occasion- I, I used to work out a lot in New York, then it kinda fell off, and I felt like I didn't have time. 199 00:35:51.916 --> 00:36:01.496 And I would go occasionally to this outdoor workout on the beach called Dominate, uh, in

Santa Monica because it was- Oh, I went to... I've gone to Dominate. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. It, it's the best. So, like, it was... 200 00:36:01.556 --> 00:36:11.696 It also was still kinda COVID when I moved here, so that was one of the only options. So it was like, okay, two birds, one stone. I'm outside. I'm, uh, working out. 201 00:36:12.276 --> 00:36:23.896 Then in 2023, they opened an indoor gym, and I was able to get a trainer. It was a little b- you know, the business was, like, a few years old then, and now I've been... That's been my thing I never give up. 202 00:36:23.936 --> 00:36:37.696 I go three times a week with my trainer, uh, no questions asked. Like, I have to be there, and that's been so important. And honestly, it's not even about looking good or, like, building muscle. I do all those... 203 00:36:37.756 --> 00:36:53.356 Like, those are great goals, but it was honestly mental health for me and just putting myself first. So self-care is facial, massage, um, working out, and then I've had a executive coach for this entire time as well. 204 00:36:53.836 --> 00:37:06.932 Her name's Robin Ward, and I met her in 2021 when I first moved out here from another founder. And I also see a therapist, and I s- uh, I'm currently not in therapy, but I'm- I've always stuck with Robin. 205 00:37:07.092 --> 00:37:22.132 [laughs] So I think that's really important too, because as you mentioned, being a founder is so lonely, and, um, it- it's just important to have someone you can talk to about that. Um, couple other things I'll add. 206 00:37:22.892 --> 00:37:32.192 Going back to networking, the founder community, especially in LA and especially in beauty, is super friendly and collaborative. So those dinners you get invited to, if they're... 207 00:37:32.232 --> 00:37:40.552 You know, you'll figure out which ones are more productive than others, but, like, you just go and you meet other people who are going through the same stuff as you, and you get to vent and talk about it. And then 208 00:37:41.572 --> 00:37:45.292 one other thing I'll say is vacation-wise, I have not... 209 00:37:45.352 --> 00:38:01.612 I remember, I think I feel like my first vacation in the Homecourt scheme of things that I really felt like I was taking off, not at a normal time, like, you know, Christmas or 4th of July, was I went on a sk- I took a one week to go skiing in 2024 210 00:38:02.632 --> 00:38:13.412 in the middle of the week. It was... And that was, like, my first time really feeling like I was away, and I was nervous about it. But couple things. 211 00:38:13.532 --> 00:38:24.632 One, it gives other people on your team a chance to step up, and two, it's a great pressure test because if you're doing everything and you can't go on vacation, that's a risk for your business. 212 00:38:25.172 --> 00:38:39.112 So it's almost like a great challenge as an entrepreneur to be able to take a week off to make sure everything's humming and running. Yeah. That's so great. [laughs] I'm, I'm still working on that, but I, I do love it. 213 00:38:39.752 --> 00:38:50.612 You'll get there. Same. The first ti- fr- the first time I really did that was when I had a baby. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah, I was gonna say, maternity leave. [laughs] Because, like, there was no other option, you know? Yeah. 214 00:38:50.752 --> 00:39:00.632 Like... [laughs] Yeah, you had to go deliver to the hospital. Yeah. Yeah, but I was, like, sending my co-founder a voice memo while I was in labor, and she was like- Oh my gosh... "Alia, I swear to God." 215 00:39:00.732 --> 00:39:15.551 Put the phone down. [laughs] Yeah. And my husband was like- I know... "Mm, okay." Like, yeah. [laughs] No, I love that so much. Um, well, we're so grateful for all of your time and your advice, and anyone that would... 216 00:39:15.592 --> 00:39:29.532 that's listening to this is gonna get so many golden nuggets of information out of it. And so congrats on what you've built, and, and thank you. Yeah. Thank you for joining us. Thank you so much. 217 00:39:29.752 --> 00:39:41.282 Um, one thing I wanna share is I'm gonna be... I love talking about stuff like this, and I'm going to be launching a Substack called Percent to Plan, where I'm gonna share- Amazing... more lessons like this. 218 00:39:41.432 --> 00:39:48.592 So you heard it here first. [laughs] Yay. Okay, perfect. We'll link to it in the show notes. Perfect.